The 9/11 Conspiracies: Fact or Fiction

Ratings: 5.55/10 from 122 users.


The 9/11 Conspiracies: Fact or FictionThis incisive documentary analyzes the extreme, yet persistent, theories that cloud the memory of our national tragedy. Experts in engineering, intelligence and the military scrutinize 9/11 conspiracy theories. Based in large part on a breakthrough expose by Popular Mechanics. Produced by the authoritative NBC News Productions.

The tragedy of the attacks of 9/11 is ours to share; it is ours to remember; it is ours to understand. Yet, our memory and understanding were clouded almost from the first horrible moment Flight 11 struck the north tower. No-one could believe such a brazen and simple attack could be so tragically effective.

Disbelief quickly gave way to conspiracy theories and suspicions. These ideas from the fringe found a fertile breeding ground on the Internet and today many of them, through the power of almost infinite repetition, have nearly gained the status of truth.

The 9/11 Conspiracies: Fact or Fiction exhaustively examines some of the most persistent of these theories: that the World Trade Center was brought down by a controlled demolition; that a missile, not a commercial airliner, hit the Pentagon; and that members of the U.S. government orchestrated the attacks in hopes of creating a war in the Middle East.

Each conspiracy argument is countered by a variety of experts in the fields of engineering, intelligence and the military. The program also delves into the anatomy of such conspiracies and how they grow on the Internet. A must see if you regard Loose Change, Final Cut as a credible documentary.

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501 Comments / User Reviews

  1. Galloway Grumblefield

    Going to watch this with prejudice. whenever I read an intro with "Each conspiracy argument is countered by a variety of experts in the fields of engineering, intelligence and the military," a red flag pops up.

    It's like your Miranda rights, that say,"Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law."

    The state doesn't make a case "for truth," it has already decided it is right, and simply seeks to validate that prejudice.

  2. kain

    Yeah I haven't seen the doc, yeah I'm posting a comment because noone else has.



    Ahaaa come at me...

  3. kain


    You bet me to the punch, but I don't think our sentiments are so different.

    Best wishes for the New Year to you.

  4. BlaketheSnake

    yeah this is not that great. they say things like "you have to go through point by point, and debunk what the conspiracy theorists say". The problem is, they didnt actually do that. When it got to that part it was just shots of people saying "The conspiracy science is wrong." but not showing the science itself! It should have been guessed though because it is an NBC production, and they're just awful. Way too much stock footage of the attacks too. Everybody saw it! You don't have to traumatize us further by rubbing our eyeballs in it!
    If you want to see a good job debunking these theories, by a good news organization, I reccomend the BBC's Conspiracy Files. There is an episode on the twin towers and a seperate one for tower 7. Plus they actually talk about the science!
    Not to mention the point by point debunks for "loose change" and "9/11 mysteries" I think simply titled "Debunking Loose Change" and "Debunking 9/11 mysteries". Could be wrong, the title might be something else.

  5. Waldo

    I don't buy the conspiracy theories about 9/11, but I have to say this doc does a poor job of debunking them. Before all you conspiracy guys start foaming at the mouth, I am not interested in any arguements are debates about this. I have revued the evidence thoroughly with a fairly good knowledge of construction and physics and I don't buy the conspiracy. Besides, if anyone is guilty of having made up their minds its the conspiracy guys. Anyway, I am not in any way personally connected to this so it really doesn't matter to me. The only thing the conspiracy guys do that bothers me is attacking the phone calls, that is disgusting and unfounded.

  6. Farren

    If the world's most powerful government is taking military action based on lies, we have an obligation to know about it, and do something about it.

    Our lives are not disconnected, though we each are individuals. We all share this Earth, and we are all connected at a very deep level. When people suffer based on lies and excessive force (the Iraqi and Afghani people, millions of them), and no one stands up for the truth, it is a sad day in humanity.

    At the end of the day, theories don't matter as much as evidence. There is copious evidence that shows the official story we've been forced-fed for a decade now is not true.

  7. shane g.

    It's sad that anyone would consider unscientific arguments by Loose Change, the History Channel or Popular Mechanics as credible when, in contrast, there are arguments BASED ON SCIENCE.

    HAS THE GOVERNMENT put together a credible argument? No peer review, ignoring evidence (see "John Gross Lies" or "yes wide SHut" with john gross on YouTube for a small taste). Get real. This documentary is pushing false information.

  8. shane g.

    See also "The Great Thermate Debate" by Jonathan Cole and David Chandler's videos -- all available on

    Please, realize that NIST employed SAIC to do "review" of its reports. SAIC is the same group that provided false information in the lead-up to the Iraq war. They should not be a substitute for releasing data.

    Patrick Gallagher will not release simulation data because it "might jeopardize public safety."

    Give me a break. This film has already been torn apat many times on the Web. Why are you promoting this as truth?

  9. Galloway Grumblefield

    I challenge anybody who believes the "pancake" theory to look at the way the way the towers fell. They did not pancake. To pancake means that the top floor collapses onto the next one, and the next one, and the next one, in an accordion like fashion, from the top-down. That is not what we see with the way the towers collapse. Instead, all floors fall at exactly the same time, starting from the bottom, not the top down.

  10. Vlatko

    @shane g.,

    No one is promoting this as truth... not me at least. The documentary is posted "as is" thus subjected to public opinion.

  11. Farren

    I started out, back in 2001, when I myself was suspicious of what was going on, and all of the strange things happening like all air travel in the US shutdown except for a few VIPs (including the Bin Laden family--who were flown on a chartered jet either the next day or days after 9/11 back to I think Saudi Arabia or Europe [have to re-watch the footage to remember]) ... I started out by looking at the free-fall-speed twin towers and the mysterious WTC 7.

    Then I saw the doc on this site "Fabled Enemies", which REALLY helped out in understanding who was behind this.

    I highly encourage anyone curious and seeking truth rather than complacency to watch it here:

    topdocumentaryfilms com /fabled-enemies

    before I saw Fabled Enemies, I just knew the official story was bs and that there was something very strange going on. Now it is much more complex.

  12. Farren

    (by "much more complex" in my last comment, i just meant that Fabled Enemies sheds far more light on the lie and operation of 9/11 than just focusing on the demolished towers and WTC 7 alone)

  13. jack1952

    @ Galloway Grumblefield

    Its amazing how two people can see the same thing and see it so differently. I saw pancaking. As it pancaked there appeared to be small explosions just below where the pancaking took place. This what caused some to say that there were planted explosives in place to facilitate the collapse from the top down. However, building seven did collapse from the bottom. Watch the film again.

  14. Galloway Grumblefield


    Alright, let's take a breath for a minute, and converge on WTC 7. You and I are in agreement that it fell, starting from the bottom? Good. That goes against all official explanation of WTC 7 collapsing due to fires on the upper floors.

    As for WTC 1 & 2, we see pancaking at the top, sure, but it distracts the eye from seeing that the bottom floors are also falling, even as the top floors are falling slightly faster. There is no reason why the bottom floors should collapse before or at the same time as the upper floors (according to the "official" "scientific" explanations).

  15. nancy

    This DOC. proves nothing nor do they disprove any of loos changes claim. Looks to me they needed put out a movie to dispute "Loos Change" and all they did is make that movie look better. This one is a pathetic attempt to try and sway Americans back to believe Bullshit! Anyone with a free thinking brain can see there is something wrong with the 911 commissions report.

  16. Mark

    I just wished this documentary attempted to debunk the claims instead of just telling us repeatedly that the claims are easy to debunk.

    This doc generally proceeds in the following fashion:
    1) Presentation of the facts on the surface.
    2) Presentation of what the 'conspiracists' say (I'm not sure there is such word)
    3) Presentation of what 'experts' say.

    'Conspiracists' like 'evolutionist' is a disparaging, aggregating term that tries to damage the credibility of people who have the natural right to question.

    Saying: "conspiracists say X"...then saying: "BUT 'experts' say Y" sets up a situation where it appears no legitimate experts disagree with the official account. This is simply not true.

    This doc reminds me of the intelligent design, more focus on the assertion that the scientific community is blocking ID challenges to evolution, and less focus on the 'substance' of the challenges. (Note that I believe it is very possible that there is an 'intelligent designer', but the ID movement, from what I have observed, is largely laughable.)

  17. phill

    what a load of s...t

  18. Smith

    Where are this experts ???
    I saw some editors explaining just nothing, but very strongly demanding rather in emotional than rational way.
    Mostly by discrediting people who actually claims that something strange has happened and trays to find the reason.
    Whole "document" in one sentence: There are no causes but the conspiracy theories.
    I'm finding it as an poor trick to promote Popular Mechanics
    By the way, take a look at this site. It's dedicated for teenagers not for mechanics.

  19. jack1952

    @ Galloway Grumblefield

    I watched the collapses of both towers over and over from all angles and could see no proof of a collapsing at the bottom. No. 7 appeared to be burning closer to the bottom so that would be consistent with a bottom collapse.

    I understand the questions and suspicions surrounding that day. We should always examine the motives of those in power. Its what makes for a healthy democracy. There just isn't enough evidence to charge and convict anyone in the government of wrong doing. I also have a problem with the amount of people involved in the plot. It seems that the number of conspirators would be in the hundreds, maybe thousands. The top planners, those flying the planes, airline executives, airline employees, airport personnel, military personnel, demolition experts, World Trade center employees, eye witnesses, communications experts, NORAD personnel just to start. In a trial all these people and more would be called to testify. Eventually someone would crack.

    What troubles me is that if there ever is a genuine attack like this that the American people would respond with a violent backlash. The McCarthy era might look tame in comparison.

  20. ProudinUS

    Not even going to watch doc.Bunch of hog ****!Who ever beleives this stuff probable beleives we didn't land on the moon either.

  21. Galloway Grumblefield


    This documentary is like the tv commercials where the actor puts on a lab jacket and holds a clipboard and says, "1 out of 10 doctors prefer..." I agree with Mark when he notes that there is a lot of scientists saying "in every case, we have debunked," and they believe if they say it over and over again enough times then maybe we should start to believe them. The problem I think is that they focus on some of the controversial elements, explain them away, but ignore some of the more troubling points.

    For example, sure, they can prove that a plane, not a missile hit the Pentagon. Problem solved? No conspiracy? not by a long shot. There are too many other problems with 9-11 when taken as a whole. I'm sure many of the problems can be debunked. But Popular Mechanics has not debunked many of the other problems, such as why a Bush cousin was in charge of WTC security, or some of the statements Cheney made, like telling Air Force fighters to "stand down," or why Philip Zelakow was selected to produce an expedient and convenient 9-11 Report.

    Popular Mechanics (or was it Science?) also seems to have ignored the reports of molten metal in the rubble of the WTC, metal that stayed red hot for days afterward, or why that steel was shipped overseas before it could be properly investigated. This was only the tip of the ice berg.

  22. GWILLY

    I'm going to repost here a small post I made on the 911 Mysteries thread. I'm doing so just because this is a newer documentary, and I think more people will be writing on this thread moving forward. I'm interested in any feedback on this.

    [[ve never heard this brought up in any thread… mind you I don’t end up reading the threads very long because the banter disintegrates fairly quickly… but for those who think their were explosives used in the buildings. I’ll let you ponder this. What are the effects of running a Jumbo jet into a building that has a series of highly synchronized explosives. Would this not surely set off tons of uncontrollable explosions – and would the top portions of the building not be severed from the chain?

    It seems to me that if you were to plan to explode the towers, it would be impossible to calculate that any of these explosives would behave predictably. I’m betting it would be the least controlled, controlled demolition in history.]]

  23. GWILLY

    Another question is, if they find bone fragments and debris on building rooftops, well outside of the drop zone - would it not be safe to say the intitial impact would have sent demolition material scattered in all directions also?

  24. Farren


    interesting question there. something i hadn't yet thought of. i'm thinking that the advanced nano-thermite used in the building may have properties that only ignite with an electrical charge (or some other mechanism that does not easily happen unless it is intended).

    one thing i've learned is that these guys are extremely smart at what they do. it's why most of the public continues to believe the story they have pushed onto the media.

  25. Farren

    re: scattered demolition material

    the demolition WAS found on the ground after the explosion, and the air even smelled of it, as remarked by some of the workers/people around there at the time. this is what has led many to investigate the thermite and nano-thermite that was found.

  26. Nigel from New Zealand

    hahahaha, your funny man, experience in physics & engineering? like what? building Lego castles when you were 9? clearly you've chosen to believe only 5 of the 911 Commissioners because the other 6 have all gone public saying the investiagtion was being blocked & is a cover up so it doesn't bode well for the official lie when over half of those who wrote it admit to it being a sham!

  27. haps77

    this could make you think that the emperor has new clothes, something stinks and its not Denmark.

  28. GWILLY

    I think what people should be doing, is contacting a controlled demolition company, and asking how they would rig a tower for demolition. What would be the explosion sequence. How interdependent are the explosives, and how are they controlled. Then ask them to make an assessment on what would happen if they ran a jet into a rigged building at 500 mph. How would the explosives behave? Maybe a model could be created that would either prove or disprove things. I'm just in my mind imagining what would happen if say you ran a transport truck, into a warehouse of explosives... I don't think you would see an impact (normal to a truck hitting a warehouse) and then later one.. an explosion - normal to what all the explosives in the warehouse would explode like. My guess is that you would have an unpredictable result that combines both elements. I really think more research needs to go into this "combined effect" theory. So far, it seems to me like people are treating the plane crash, and the falling of the buildings as two seperate events. And something tells me if there were tons of explosive material lining those walls - you'd see and hear more unpredictable explosions happening all the way through the video footage. Also how predictible could a "pull" of a building be, when a whole section of the building is obstensibly gone from the demolition sequence?

    I think it would be an ugly demolition, if it worked at all.

    But I'm just interested in opinions on this. We all want the truth to be settled, so that we can move on from this place.

  29. haps77

    I had to stop 5min in still trying to force feed lies.

  30. ProudinUS

    Let's say, just to amuse some, that the building was rigged with explosives by the govenment well in advanced(not knowing the terrorists were going to crash into the towers)in case of some day having a hostile take over by a group on foot that thinks their maybe some documents of secracy in the towers.That maybe,just maybe,got triggered off when the airplane hit the buildings.Being as peronoid as we are,If in the event of a hostile take over the government would set off an explosion on the floor that the terrorist on foot might be targeting.

  31. Stefan

    HAHA this doc is such crap.

  32. Andy

    Well, where does one begin?
    They do not even mention that the collapse of building 7 was announced on the UK's BBC news BEFORE it actually happened, now I know the BBC are good, but are they capable of predicting this first case in history of a building collapse, I don't think so.

    As each of the 'experts' offered their 'evidence' against the conspiracy theory I was expecting Penn & Teller to pop on screen and shout BULL SH*T

    This stinks of propaganda from start to finish.

  33. Nigel from New Zealand

    forget all those theories about government cover ups etc just focus on the known facts such as
    1)over half the commissioners themselves now admitting their report was subverted & filled with lies
    2)or how about the absolute smoking gun WTC-7
    3)or basic physics asking where did all that energy come from?
    4)dozens upon of dozens of firemen, police & other first responders on record reporting secondary explosions when the official theory explicity states there where absolutely none, zero, nil, nought, nothing!
    5)the fire resistant bandana & passport that survived the crashes that vapourized titanium, high carbon steel & alloy! WTF!

    The list goes on though I'm sure you'll find some bogus half arsed retort to justify your ignorance.

  34. deg

    Whenever you see someone like "The History Channel" stick up for the perpetrators of this crime, it puts THEM into the same bunch as the guilty. Either that, or they are awful stupid? I "watched" the "2nd plane" crash into the "2nd tower" on "live" TV. I bought it. However, when my brother told me recently, it was all "staged" I began to do my own research. There is nothing more I want to believe that OUR "leaders" are honest, there is just too much evidence to continue to believe an obvious lie. I wasn't born yesterday, but I have always believed our government was "reasonably" truthful.

    It is easy for the "media" to control our thoughts by the way they present their so-called "facts." My Doctor asked me, "How could "they" get all three networks to be in on it?" I told him, "WHO owns those 3 networks?" ABC,CBS, NBC, were the original 3. Now it's TIME WARNER, AOL, Westing House, ABC, DISNEY, ESPN, HISTORY CHANNEL, E, A&E, INSOSEEK, ETC, ETC.,=GE..a defense contractor, and NBC, CNBC,MSNBC, =TIME WARNER AND MICROSOFT General Electric and CBS= Frank Carlucci CBS Corporation which owns Showtime, FOX NEWS= Rupert Murdoc. I know this list is very incomplete. It should give you an idea of what "we" are facing.

    "CORPORATE-CONTROL hooked up with FEDERAL GOVERNMENT-CONTROL. Theses companies own other channels of every kind. This is a SMALL list. I know I don't own any. "When you lay down with dogs, you get-up with flees." Rich people, like any ethnic-group (i.e. RICH people) HANG TOGETHER like Black people, Mexican people, or whatever "group-of-people" you want to talk about. The only thing most "white people" have in common is, FREEDOM, and getting at the truth. Caucasian folks don't feel "connected" like people of color, and that worries me.

    "White-power" is a fallacy. It shouldn't matter of course, it doesn't to me, what "group" you feel connected to, because we are ALL "connected to" the human race! I wondered as a boy, where did all those DUKES, PRINCESSES, EARLS, KINGS, QUEENS, "ROYALS," I.E. RICH SON-OF-A-BITCHES go to, that we learned about in high school? TRUST ME, THEY ARE STILL AROUND! AND THEY, "hang together! THE BILDERBERG "GROUP, the CFR, the Carlyle group, the ILLUMINATI, etc. This is where "THEY" went. We just don't hear about them from teachers in school, or from the CONTROLLED MEDIA. I, as a young man, began to HATE that word "controlled."

    I thought this was a "FREE" society. I answer to no one, unless they sign my check. I was in construction all my life, until I blew 3 disks out of my back. So my Father's words, that still ring in my ears, "Hard work never hurt anyone," was untrue. Also, there is only so much, I will do to "get-paid." Some folks have NO conscious. Also, what he told me about LIARS, DID come out true. "Liars ALWAYS get caught. Sooner, or later son, the truth ALWAYS comes out." HOWEVER AGAIN, you will not be told the truth, by LIARS. Or even books, depending on the book.

    I have come to be, after 35= years of Esoteric and Occult Metaphysics, AND being babtized, a VERY good judge of character. I can spot a liar a mile away. Of course I am not ALWAYS right. No one is. But there are things to "watch" for. Like, "I was sitting outside the classroom, waiting to go in, and I saw this plane crash into a building....blah, blah, blah; No ONE saw the first plane crash until the DAY AFTER 9/11. If one thing is a lie, chances are, it is ALL...a lie! "LIARS ALWAYS GET CAUGHT." Had my brother not "clued me in," I would still be believing what Washington told us.

    After all, I "saw" it? WHY would they lie? That is a fkg stupid question. The more you look at this, the more it STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN!!! You believe what you want. I am a man of LITTLE "faith." "Faith is for those who know it aint so." (MT) I mostly believe what I see. IF....I get a GOOD LOOK at it. All too often "full-speed" is just TOO fast to see DETAILS. "The DEVIL is in the DETAILS." When you see videos like "Loose Change" and ALL the videos made about 9/11, it is EASY to see WHO is on WHO'S side.

    The only "side" I am on, is the side of the TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND "NOTHING BUT" THE TRUTH. Hasn't anyone ever noticed the two IMPORTANT "symbols" on either side of the "Speaker of the House" in the Congress building? Where Presidents and Congress people stand when they give their speeches? There are 2 FASCIST symbols on either side of the podium. No one pays them any "mind," because they just don't know what they are! Do I need to explain the word FASCIST? That's what HITLER was. AMERICA, wake the fk up, before it's too late. Don't take my word for it, do your own research. Take the WOOL off your won eyes and SEE!

  35. Whitt23

    @ Jack1952 There isnt enough evidence to convict anybody?Who collected all the evidence?Please dont say the government!If i collect evidence of a crime i committed,well im sure there wouldnt be enough to convict.Your right if went to trial with all those people.Someone would crack,but if it doesnt ever goto trail.No wotties about anyone cracking.When a crime has been committed.The investigators try to find out what happened.They usally start with the witness's to the crime(in this case the people in the buildings).Why hasnt the government(investigators)listened to the words from the witness's(victums in this case)mouth?The witness's all heard Explosions coming from the basement FIRST!What hit the basement first?To many unanswered questions.To many lies by the government about what happened.If they lied about any part of it,then why wouldnt they lie about the whole thing?

  36. Whitt23

    @ ProudinUS. WTF are you talking about???

  37. deg

    One last statement, VIDEO's can be altered. I saw how easy it is, in another video, to make a plane "look like" it "melts" into a building. I also saw a video, that had NO "2nd plane?" hummm?

  38. vradiohd

    Why! is there no video of a 'plane' hitting the PENTAGON!

  39. HHV

    It doesn't matter at this point about physical proof - they've destroyed the physical evidence.

    WHAT DOES MATTER is that the asshole we did NOT elect utilized the bones of 3000 people to go start a war with some innocent citizens so we won't have to worry about oil in the foreseeable future, thereby fucking bankrupting our nation into slavery forever. And we still have people saying we went to Iraq because of 9/11. And he and his buddies did it CLEARLY based on the PNAC document. Whether they actually engineered the attacks or not - irrelevant as to results. It worked. And it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they did engineer it. But proving it...the 9/11 truth movement hasn't done so. And they need to quit saying wacky things like there was a missle. We all saw, and not ALL of us are stupid.

  40. sal

    this is all bullshit..the truth is hidden in plain sight...they the government and media control every aspect of our lives..well for those who are conditioned into there way of living..dont beleive the media..the biggest liar in evryones house is the box in the corner of everyones house..THE TV!!

  41. ProudinUS

    @Whitt23 Say the government put explosives in the building as a procauntionary device in case some enemy went in and tried to take over? (Sorry I'm not very good with words.)The explosives might have went off accidently as the result of
    the planes hitting the towers.

  42. actone

    if any of you truly believe the official story, there is no hope for you.

  43. TheyCallMeMrChase

    A not so sublime attempt to interject some kind of 'authority' into the official story. The official debunker's in this doc are ridiculously laughable. I mean, 'do they hear themselves?' No, this is a terrible piece of misinformation produced by either complete idiots....or those whom are complicit, and there are many.

  44. TriforceV

    Propaganda at its finest,

  45. Mike

    The only "conspiracy theory" is that 19 arabs with box cutters bypassed a 40 billion dollar security network and flew three planes into major targets and crashed one into a field in Pennsylvania. Oh, AND, that somehow we're just not allowed to see the plane hitting the Pentagon? Why the fuck not? What purpose does it serve to not let people see ALL the video from the Pentagon if you have nothing to hide?

    Now if that is not insanity, I don't know what is.

  46. M

    having established that the official story
    is exactly that .. a story ...

    based on the evidence found ..

    when is something going to be done about this ?
    who is goin to do it ?
    why hasn't someone done something about it ?
    what more does it take ?
    how much longer will we take this ?

  47. Sherlock Holmes

    If it wasn't a conspiracy, then what are they calling it? The FBI furnaced the Bush administration with a report that an attack on America was emminent. Massoud have been telling the west about terrorism emmanating from his country before the attacks happened. All that was ignored by the Bush administration! Maybe that was the reason why Bush stole the presidency in the first place! So that these reports would be ignored! so that they can have a justification to invade Iraq and Afghanistan! To gain control of the oil in Iraq!
    I do believe that Al Qaida perpetrated the attack, but I also believe that the Bush administration played its part in making it happen! They know of the attack way before it happened. And it was all about oil!!!

  48. Vat22

    what a load of B.S.

  49. GWILLY

    Why do I get the feeling that no one wants to talk about the points I make? It's like people have their minds made up already... I'm into a free exchange of ideas, with no fixed belief in either camp..... I ask again, if a plane hits a building loaded with explosives, what happens? And if alot of the building is already been blown away from a Jet hitting it.. how does a perfectly executed "controlled demolition" take place? And why aren't there pieces of the demolition - scattered across the city? I think if a plane plowed into a loaded building, there would be some pretty unpredictable things happening. :)

  50. anna

    I am a native new yorker, grew up the the bronx and I will never forget that day. 24 hours seemed like 48 hours. i felt the lockdown imposed that day came 2-3 too late. my immediate thought was where are the fighter pilots, mr.bush, mr. powell, and what the hell. the day played out in slow motion and SURREAL to me. that day is forever cemented in my mind. and i just want to say that "Deg-s post" above BLEW ME AWAY. god bless DEG, i could never put it to words like you, ditto! In fact, i'm going to copy and paste it for my files.

  51. Wayne Simpson

    I reckon it's a conspiracy that these conspiracy nutcases come up with these conspiracies. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

  52. O'Cearbhallain

    I have already seen this film. I consider it some of the worst dreck to ever be produced regarding the tragic events of 9/11. I applaud Top Docs for posting this, and I believe everyone skeptical of the "official explanation" should watch this film and get educated on how professional disinformation artists can manipulate, divide and confuse any type of large-scale public debate.

    As one example, the Popular Mechanics magazine article, and this documentary utilizes the technique of the "straw man argument" to good effect. For those unfamiliar with the practice: in this case, PM relies on the erroneous assumption that all people who question the official 9/11 story are a homogeneous group with identical opinions. It then selects the arguments to refute from among the weakest evidentiary cases, or those theories easiest to water down, ridicule, or just misrepresent for their benefit.

    It mostly glosses over or avoids the questions at the heart of the matter and sticks to fringe issues taken out of context, and sprinkles in some of the more outlandish comments made by high-profile people. There is little real investigation on PM's part, mostly light-weight refutations of silly, baseless theories, or lies and obfuscation on the meatier issues where they thought they could get away with it.

    If nothing else, people who seriously question the official 9/11 theory have to learn to avoid loaded questions when discussing these issues with people who are unconvinced or hostile to your position. As tempting as it may be to launch into a rant, when people ask you questions like, "OK, Mr.Genius, who do you think was behind it?" Or, "Then, how did they bring the buildings down, huh?"

    We all have to learn from Jesse Ventura to simply say "I don't know." Just because we don't believe the lies we've been fed, doesn't mean we have all the answers. Every half-baked answer to one of their "Gotcha!" questions, just sets the 9/11 movement back one more time. Stick to evidence you can prove.

  53. Bash

    Where's the science to debunk 9/11 ???

  54. JR

    This was a lame attempt at anti-conspiracy propaganda.

    Not well done at all.

    I have no idea what happened on 911, nor who did it.

    All I know is:

    1.) The Twin Towers each falling in on themselves (with virtually no resistance) cannot be reasonably explained.
    2.) The fact that the US government and several of its agencies was having a joint terrorism exercise that day--is very suspicious.
    3.) The fact that no fighters were scrambled is very suspicious and goes against decades-long settled military protocol (this whole section in this video is pure fantasy and disinformation. Trust me, since about 1960, this country, especially on the East Coast and also Washington, has had a standing order and program to scramble jets, upon any flight hijacking or aberration).
    4.) I'm still having a hard time that throughout human history: these are the only steel reinforced buildings that have collapsed; and,
    5.) Nothing...and I mean NOTHING can explain building Seven. a.) How did English News talk about BLD 7 collapsing, while they still showed it standing in their backgrounds; and b.) How did it collapse, with very little damage to the building.

    Again, there is many, many aberrations to the 911 event. The real news story on this, is that THE AMERICAN PEOPLE NO LONGER TRUST ITS OWN GOVERNMENT, and our society is fragmenting because of it.

  55. Bash

    There doesn't seem to be any critical analysis of what happenned.
    This documenatry is a joke.

    The American media seems terribly biased.

    News in America, seems to be some kind of hollywood production.

  56. 1perspective

    for those who believe that large scale secrets cannot be kept by governments.

    the u2 spy plane was kept secret until it was shot down over russia.

    and what about the manhattan project. from wikipedia " The Manhattan Project, which began as a small research program that year, eventually employed more than 130,000 people and cost nearly US$2 billion ($22 billion in present day value). It resulted in the creation of several research and production sites whose construction and operations were secret. Research took place at more than 30 sites, including universities across the United States, Canada, and the United Kingdom. The three primary research and production sites of the project were the plutonium-production facility at the Hanford Site in eastern Washington state; the uranium enrichment facilities at Oak Ridge, Tennessee; and the weapons research and design laboratory at Los Alamos, New Mexico."

    thats 1 big secret.

  57. albury

    NCSTAR 1A fully explains the collapse of WTC 7, JR. READ IT.

  58. Susan Carr

    This film does not have any engineer, mechanical, technical, architectural, or ANY documented records to backup the debunk flapping of their lips. After the first 15 minutes I knew I was wasting my time listening to "paid" experts who "voiced" their "opinions" without factual comparisons.

    After reading all of the comments, I need not type any further. How stupid do they think the American public really is if they think our comments will be in gratitude for their "enlightenment" of the truth of the "official" facts.

    I'm happy to see that they didn't draw in this crowd, but rather, succeeded in increasing our doubts by "talking over" something they deny is "covered up".

  59. Jeigh

    I worked at a Soho hotel bartending. It was my only day shift and I awoke in midtown at 8:45 with fifteen minutes to get to work. Tried the subway, but it was already not running, so I began running, and I made it to West Broadway and Canal street around 9:45. Just in time to see all the horrors. The only thing I heard were bodies hitting the ground. I will say though, that If I could hear that from less than fifteen blocks away, I would expect to hear explosions. (I am not for or against any theories) What I can say about my first hand account is that it did not seem natural. I understand that it wasn't natural, but what I mean to explain is the way the tower went down. It was almost silent. You felt and saw everything trembling, but the tower just sank. I spent the next ten minutes in disbelief, comforting a few people on the street, and walking towards the north tower. I am not sure what the official report is, but people were still jumping from the north tower...until it came down. This time I could hear an explosion. Everyone around me did. In that brief moment, we all new it was coming down seconds before it did. I was close enough to be engulfed in the dust and darkness at this point, and downtown would not see the sun for what seemed like days. I went to work. I was the only bartender that actually made it to work in Soho that morning. I bartended in a High end celebrity filled hotel. For two days my manager and I took care of the entire hotel. The hotel was sealed up and locked down, yet the smoke and smell of death still made its way in. My story of those three days would fill a short novel so let me finally get to my point. 9 11 should be investigated by an international panel. The conspiracy theories, (especially the bad ones) often hurt and hinder investigations. I wouldn't trust the American media as far as Godzilla could throw them, and Popular Mechanics is that media. This is my real point. Any publication that continually uses these horrific images to immediately disorient or infuriate, or instill deep fear into the viewer, ten years later even... should instantly be considered sh#* journalism and science immediately. There are only a few of us... people that were right there... and every time the scene is exploited, so are we... and so are all of you.

  60. fundoshi

    The planes that hit the twin towers were seen spraying chemtrails shortly before they hit their targets. Same for flight 77 and 93

  61. toodance

    "Officialdumb" is usually accepted by the status quo, hence there will always be a way out of this horrifying mess for the government.

  62. Keith

    I've just watched the video and to be honest I think it just strengthens the conspiricy theory. Like someone said previously, the "debunkers" don't offer anything scientific to counter the conspiricy claims.
    But what I'm mostly surprised about is the ommision of the pools of molten metal and the traces of sulfur (on the steel girders and dust) in the documentary.

  63. toodance

    Thank you for taking the time to talk about your experience. I think you are very good with words and I like what you had to say.

  64. Keith

    @ fundoshi...can you supply a link to back up the claim the planes were spraying "chem trails" please. Thanks and happy new year to one and all, may "god" keep you safe and happy!

  65. Jeigh

    Thanks @toodance. That was the first time I've told my brief version. I appreciate the feedback and understanding. I hope our world begins to start looking at the real problems in our societies. Greed, insecurities, and fear drive many human beings.

  66. Farren


    you pull up the common "you are cruel for talking about 911 because the victims suffered" - when the USA, the most powerful military in the world, assaults the citizens of Iraq and Afghanistan en masse based on the lies of 911, and has killed over a million innocents, destroyed millions of more families, and recklessly demolished countless homes, businesses, hospitals, and other important buildings.

    using your logic, "you are not honoring the millions+ innocents who have been killed, injured, or their lives completely overturned based on the lies of 911"

    i don't know why WTC7 was pulled, but it was a building which held offices of many of the groups involved in this false flag operation: the SEC, the FBI, the ATF, the Secret Services, the Federal Reserve.... 9/11 happened at the height of the Enron saga as well. it was discovered that Bush was close to many of the Enron people and the scandal seems to have a governmental counterpart. many incriminating records and evidence were likely purposely destroyed in the WTC7 collapse as a quick, convenient, and fool-proof method to get rid of evidence they never wanted to see the light of day

    why was the rubble of the towers quickly and secretly trucked out onto a ship bound for China? there was much evidence in the rubble, and it was mostly taken out as quick as possible. it was all planned out.

  67. Pyrrhus

    The government must really be getting nervous to be putting out this kind of shoddy propaganda. Even the paid actors portraying "experts" are bad. One cannot help but think that the government was unable to find anyone with half-decent stage presence to act the roles.

    Next thing you know, they'll be trying to tell us that Building 7 just kinda, sorta,... fell down.

  68. Pyrrhus

    Even the narrator sounded phony.

  69. Dedman

    As a former news reporter, I thought I'd at least make an attempt at opening my toolbox of truth and logic once again for practice. Here goes:
    If the blueprint for a NWO is, in actuality, real, then this event (9/11) is a plausible developmental stage in that plan. If you'll permit me to swing wide here....9/11 was a perfect catalyst for the genesis of the financial crisis. Destabilize the global financial markets to set the stage for restructuring. It worked. (Even Cheney said before the attacks that we'd need a "Pearl Harbor" type event to set their plan into motion. It happened.
    9/11 was the doorbell for the middle eastern invasion by the US. We now know that much of the "evidence" provided by the government to invade Iraq was false. Our govt lies...the ends justify the means.
    Knowing this should be enough for any skeptic to at least blink at those facts and as history has proven some 60yrs after Pearl Harbor, the govt lied to its citizenry about what it knew and when...even then. (transmission of radar data, Jap subs in the Harbor, etc.) Again, a catalyst to war.
    The govt spends more on Black Ops projects than all other R&D and development military projects combined. This should raise a red flag about how far the govt will go to confuse, divide and misdirect the public at large. They know precisely what they're doing at all times. Now that we can factually demonstrate that our govt is as dirty as can be, why would it shock anyone that 9/11 was 'planned' in some manner by a cabal of think-tankers working towards a final draft of the NWO?
    I've never been a conspiracy guy or a tin-foil hat guy, I simply gather information from the past and present to better project a rational train of thought of the future. The longer I live, the more I am sickened at the very real, murky and very spooky direction our govt (and many others) is heading. They have divided the masses and keep us swimming in whirlpools of deception, confusion and propaganda (with an occasional factoid thrown in to really muddy the waters).
    Was 9/11 an inside job? I don't know. I do however think that the US govt was involved directly. Did the govt know about the terror plots beforehand? We know that they did. Perhaps they simply let the act play out for their own agenda...who knows?
    Yet, NOT evacuating the Prez from the school for 40 minutes during a terror attack rather clenched 'complicity' for me. Not to mention the bin Laden connection and subsequent departure of their jet during a no-fly event also should open one's eyes. (I could go on here for pages but all of you know the story(ies)
    Just wait until the govt begins the next chapter of the book. Here's how I see it going down:
    The govt will begin its population control scenario by announcing there is an asteroid that has 'broken up' in space and will there will be many impacts with great loss of life. Of course, there will be no asteroid and the powers that be will simply light off several nukes (as no one would be the wiser...or alive for that matter to give 1st hand accounts) across the globe. I know, I know....insane. Yet, I see it coming, folks...
    What a heckuva time to be alive.....

  70. Farren


    the more people wake up to what is going on, and to the lying media,

    the more they won't blindly trust what is told.

    the london subway bombings, 7/7/2005, also a false flag operation.

    many of the "terror plots" we keep hearing about. they are designed to generate hatred towards arabs and the middle east, to further the "war" effort (really kind of a genocide) and further take control of all the countries there.

  71. GWILLY

    The trouble I have with the "government", which I think you're really citing is the Bush clan, and their pretexts... and where i think the logic breaks down.. is in their "failed" invasion of Iraq. They came up with egg on their face with that one, and to me,if they were as organised and capable as to be able to pull off a supposed black flag op(like the twin towers) surely there could have been something planted inside Iraq. The point I'm making, is that they couldn't or "wouldn't" even manufacture a post-text in the enemy's world... I mean, for the CIA.. how hard do you think that really would be?

  72. Farren


    "The trouble I have with the “government”, which I think you’re really citing is the Bush clan, and their pretexts… and where i think the logic breaks down.."

    it may be trouble for you now, but you just need to get more enlightened on the whole situation. a great documentary on this site is called Fabled Enemies

    topdocumentaryfilms com /fabled-enemies

    this shows that it's not just the Bush clan, but the many neoconservatives (especially Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld and their group The Project for A New American Century) the Israeli government, the Pakistani government, the Turkish government, and others who were involved in the 9/11 operation.

    "is in their “failed” invasion of Iraq. They came up with egg on their face with that one, and to me,if they were as organised and capable as to be able to pull off a supposed black flag op(like the twin towers) surely there could have been something planted inside Iraq."

    how do you even know if the Iraq invasion "failed"? by whose terms? from a standpoint of "delivering freedom and democracy" and all of that propaganda, yes, it's a failure. from a standpoint of taking control of their oil fields, being strongly involved in the creation of their new government and the policies they will use (which are unfairly biased towards the US and Britain and major multi-national corporations), building the largest ever US Embassy in Baghdad and many other objectives never mentioned about in the media, they have been very successful

  73. GWILLY

    By Bush clan, I meant all the players. Not just his family.

    As far as the "objectives" go... I would still like to think that one of the objectives would be to continue to win in public opinion. The pretext is all about public opinion, why would a stated objective not carry right through the plan? Otherwise, why even bother with a pretext, if you don't care what public opinion is?

  74. GWILLY

    Farren, I do agree with you, that all those objectives you mention at the end of your post were satisfied. And undoubtedly the US used Sept 11 for multiple objectives. But what I'm questioning, is whether a truly corrupt New World Order conspiracy is at play. If they were so omni-powerful to be able to rig three buildings with explosions, and manipulate the defense system, and the insurance system, control the media, and galvanize the whole American population - surely they could have at least come up with a wiring harnass or some raw material or "something/anything?" to keep their position strong. But they didn't do that did they? Makes me wonder.

  75. Farren

    "By Bush clan, I meant all the players. Not just his family."

    It's good I elaborated anyway, because most people don't yet know just how many other players there are besides George Bush, Jr. In fact, he was probably one of the people in the least amount of "know". He really thought he was doing God's mission by taking out muslims who he thought were against us. Much of the info was kept from him. Cheney was more of a mastermind of a lot of this.

    "As far as the “objectives” go… I would still like to think that one of the objectives would be to continue to win in public opinion."

    it is very true that they spend a lot of resources to try to make at least some Iraqis feel like we care. all those photo-ops of US soldiers and Iraqi children and all that. but it's a weak thing and something of a back-burner issue for the people in charge.

    they know that the American population is not there in Iraq, and that we only know what is shown in the media. since the media is so controlled, they can just not show the huge bad parts, and show the tiny good parts. that's what they do.

    this is kind of off topic though. the point is looking at the evidence, 9/11 was not what we were told it was, and it is continuously (even today, in the New Years parade i'm told...Rose Bowl I think, they had a 9/11 Float, to continue to keep people in that line of thinking and make it very unpopular to speak for truth).

  76. Farren

    "Farren, I do agree with you, that all those objectives you mention at the end of your post were satisfied. And undoubtedly the US used Sept 11 for multiple objectives. But what I’m questioning, is whether a truly corrupt New World Order conspiracy is at play."

    well, i have to admit it's very complex and i don't understand it. i don't think many people do.

    i don't think it's some grand New World Order and that they are all one single group and all of this. It seems more like it's in fragments, and people play on various sides of issues. it's a very manipulative power game. governments against governments. corporations with or against governments. sactions, economic consequences, banks. there is a huge network of people who only care about one thing: power, and gaining more of it. the global elites. it's not like some evil thing in a movie. it's just a bunch of the wealthiest, most cunning, and powerful individuals uniting to keep the wealth and power within their circles and take it from teh common people of the world

  77. GWILLY

    Sadly, one thing you have to be aware of.. which makes subtracting the spin from any grass roots movements difficult... are the industries that develope through them. JFK, UFO's, Conspiracy Theories, Global Warning, Holocaust.. and sadly 911. To seperate greed from truth is the most important challenge we all face moving forward. Personally, I think a 911 float is somewhat blasphemous to the families. Maybe that's just me though.

  78. GWILLY

    Farren, I think what you've said about the complexity is very important to keep in mind. It's, I believe, that main reason why trying to open up a new investigation would be so impossible. You'd never get through all the hands in the cookie jar, to come up with a clear picture. And in the end, you'd find out that somehow, our hands are in some of the jars also. It's really a problem for all of humanity IMHO. There are so many complexities. I think the US government knows that seeing an absolute truth, would be futile - and at the very worst destabilizing. And I don't think you or me or anyone else, whats instability. We have enough problems ahead to deal with. Sadly, we may have to abandon the ones that are behind us.

  79. Andy

    @ Jo

    Talking starts revolutions, takes down governments, exposes the corrupt, it is people with similar attitudes to yours that are the real problem with society today.

    If we were all as apathetic as yourself nothing would get resolved in the world.

    Instead of attacking people for talking about issues that matter either have your say for or against the subject matter or stay out of it if you feel that we are all a bunch of jokers.

  80. Peter Leclair

    Its been 9.5 years and the answer to the questions remain the same. Can someone tell me that if a young boy can tell a cnn reporter that his dad told him to hide so we can be in the show and the people demand what he means by this and then his father is investigated and found that it was all an act for tv and later charged.Can anyone tell me why when the President states on national tv that he wasnt aware until the secret servicehad told him while in the classroom and then is told about the second plane while still in the classroom.Then he says that he never new about the crash until he watched the first plane on tv before he went to the class.This is a bold faced lie and he knew he was caught but nobody questioned him about this revolation.The people will persecute a man for a fake balloon ride but will not seek answers on a mass murder.Finally when nearly two hours pass and not one military jet intercepts a hijacked airliner.I really dispise that the US government will go on and on to lie and steal from there own people.I really hope that these revelations come to light.Especially BUSH and CHENEY.They both make me so sick to look at.If not in this world but in another they will pay a far greater gruesome eternal damnation.GOOD LUCK the US deserves better than those scumsucking ass.......

  81. Pyrrhus

    Four points for your consideration:

    I have no theory as to the ‘who' or 'why’ of 9/11.

    Newtonian Mechanics dictates that the free-fall collapses of World Trade Center buildings 1, 2, & 7, were the result of controlled demolitions.

    The USA PATRIOT Act, at 342 pages, consisting of 156 separate sections, under ten discrete titles, covering 350 subject areas involving 40 different federal agencies, was written within the three week period prior to its introduction to Congress, on October 2, 2001, at the average calculated rate of 16 pages per day. During the ensuing three weeks, subsequent to its introduction to Congress, while the Act was being read and debated, a series of anthrax letters were sent to news anchors, leading Democratic Senators, and to the Supreme Court. The bill was then passed by both houses of Congress. Then, on October 26, 2001, 45 days subsequent to the controlled demolitions, the USA PATRIOT Act was signed into law by President George W. Bush.

    The Bush/Cheney Conspiracy Theory is patently self-evidently absurd.

  82. Jeigh

    @Pyrrhus Incredibly well put and to the point. I had no idea the Patriot act was that far reaching and thrown together. No wonder it's such a crock. Thanks for the information.

  83. Phil Shaw

    the only thing i focus on that has me 100% certain (99.9) sure the building did NOT fall from fire or plane impacts is watching the building fall.

    How can anyone watch these buildings fall and say that every single support on every floor in all 3 buildings simultaneously failed at the same time from fire, pancake theory, of plane impact. I mean, common. Look at it! The buildings collapse way too symmetrical, too consistent, and occurs at free fall speed! These are extremely flimsy arguments to explain these collapses.

    I dont know what caused the buildings to fall, but i do know every "debunker" explanation is garbage.

  84. kain

    I didn't think the documentary was SO bad in that it was restricted to a tv compatible length and therefore had to summarize the claims/"debunking" of the material they chose to address.

    I thought the editor from popular mechanics exposed his own lack of knowledge (rather than suggesting willful exclusion) when he talked about the reason there were no jet interceptions in time was because of NORAD's lack of preparation for an internal aerial threat. Isn't it undisputed fact that there were military excercises taking place on the day that involved the simulated highjackjing of commercial aircraft for the purpose of being used as ballistic weapons? And THIS was posited as being the reason there was no effective response, as the real event was obscured amidst the simulation (as mind blowingly coincidental as this was- and as an aside the UK 7/7 event had exactly the same type of coincidence played out during its unfolding...amazingly)?
    Also there was no address to the fact that the 9/11's commissions explanation of WTC 1/2's collapse being a "pancake", completely omitted the fact there were dozens of internal support beams within the buildings, that at the very least would have remained partially upright after the towers structural failure (as well as preventing the towers near free fall collapse as per their theorized framework).
    Finally, in my mind the most critical omission was the traces of thermite found in the dust following the events. If someone can provide evidence debunking the existence of trace levels of thermite in the aftermath I'd very much like to see it as the evidence I have seen thus far of its existence appears incontrovertible.

  85. kain

    in reference to the above;

    I meant internal support columns (vertical) not beams (horizontal) that were clustered down the center of the towers, creating the fundamental support for the super structure- and completely ignored in the 9/11 commissions report, in relation to the explanation of the buildings collapse (allegedly, I have not read the report myself).

  86. Farren

    Yea totally guys. Great to see that so many are awake to reality. It's been years to get this much people to open their eyes and not just parrot the official and popular impossible story.

    The 7/7 London Bombings and many of these other "terror plots" in the news are similar psychological operations on the public to stir up more hatred and anger towards Muslims, so military can have public support and funding to and attack more, kill more innocents, take more resources, etc.

    So now, when there is a headline news, like this morning on MSNBC showing the bombing of a Christian church by supposed Muslims in Egypt, we can know there is much more going on in the generation and reporting of these kinds of stories, and it is not just telling us unbiased news.

    The CIA has been involved in many countries and is actively doing these operations and political arm-twisting (through the various channels) to aggressively push this Middle East agenda.

    Back in April of 2010, there was a classified CIA memo on Wikileaks, explaining their strategies for manipulating the media in various countries for continued support for the killing in Afghanistan. This memo was very specific to each country: England, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, etc.

    Why should the CIA be doing underhanded sneaky things like this? It's an outrage.

  87. Cathy

    You should see the video Hal Sisson: 911 For Whose Benefit?

    WTC 7 held the RICO & other white collar criminal cases like Wall Street.
    At the time of this video there were 20 high ranking military officers that would testify that it was an inside job IF there was an independent investigation.

    how does 120 ft. wingspan only make an 18 ft. diameter hole?

    why did several Raytheon workers all die from freak accidents? Were they whistle blowers?
    Raytheon specializes in remote control aircraft & missiles.

    Why was a Bush appointee (in charge of the charity dept that Bush created) going on speaking engagements telling the audiences that he found out that it was an inside job & that's the reason he quit?

    Why did they power down the towers twice in the weeks before
    9/11? It was said that it had never been done before.

    It's kind of suspicious that Rumshit I mean Rumsfeld said we needed something like another Pearl Harbor to justify a war in Iraq before 9/11.

  88. Keith

    @Peter Leclair

    Well said.

  89. Avii

    Just finished watching it and i'm sourly at their so called debunking evidence. First that they choose Loose Change as their main focus i think is wrong since the DVD Architects & Engineers is so so much more reviling. And all they do is to put up some random dude (some expert or whatnot) and just say this is the conspiracy and this is the truth, without much or any evidence himself. I rather belive 1000 structural engineers and demolishing experts then "some magazine" owned by big corporations...So for me this not nearly enough proof to debunk the theories...

  90. Look at the silly monkey

    Not worth watching... Funny to hear the "experts" though.. To bad they forgot to use arguements to debunk evidence.. Bet they succeeded to convince ppl that dont wanna believe what the evidence is pointing to though.. So in that matter its a pitty they made this "doc" and broadcast it on the history channel for millions to see...

  91. Ramon

    It is clear that terrorists must have loaded all buildings (especially WTC7) with explosives and planes were just a theatre for the public. Whoever those terrorists were, their acts have resulted into massive liberties restrictions during this ten years, therefore bringing the regimens closer together.

  92. Peter Leclair

    @jo your absolutely right and the reasons are simple but real>To catch the perps of this dasdardly deed would cause ww3 without a doubt because the americans would be to blame for failing to recognise that there government and the scum that is with them invaded IRAQ AFGHANISTAN on false pretences and terror would just be the beginning of what would be disastrous consequences for the west. Many years ago a famous band made a quote to ryme in a very famous album its this IVE WATCHED THE WORLD THAT JOINED THE BEAST AND SEEN THE WESTERN WORLD GO DOWN IN THE EAST. Something is about to happen folks and we are not ready but those who got rich off911 are ready in there bomb shelters.It would feel great to watch those particular two scums get dragged in front of the world and stoned to death.

  93. Peter Leclair

    @Jeigh We as a civilised oeople were very distraught and taken aback on that day.I live in CANADA and my country played a civil role in landing many aircrafts on our soil. I really do repect your way of trying to come to terms with this horror picture in real life.I feel that the powers that be know but are faced with the real possibility that ww3 could result from the truth' So I say if unknowns can die from mysterious ways because they know the truth then what is the real possibility that those scum from the bush senior and junior were to die of mysterious illneesses but in fact were tortured like they should be but never revealed to the people.It would make me happy to hear how they suffered immensely for weeks while revealing the truth to the torturers and that this would just be the beginning of a much terrible and gruesome fate that awits them in the afterlife of eternal damnation. I really do feel your pain and it is justified ti feelthis but the truth needs to be told so that we all can finally close the file and begin to heal and those who masterminded this deed will pay for this I feel certain but WW3 is not in the best interest of the truth seekers

  94. Peter Leclair

    @all truth seekers. Many will remember Tim Russert from meet the press and his interview withthat fat scum.......Cheney.Is it possible that Russert who is very aggressive on issues of government may I SAY MAY have relevent info on 911 and was ready to expose sensitive material about those FFF>>>>>BBB and was snuffed out for this reason and a heart attack is easy to manipulate by poison.THINK ABOUT THAT AS YOU WATCH HIS INTERVIEW WITH CHENEY.

  95. Peter Leclair

    @Cathy hmmm hmmm You took the words right off my screen very real possibility and probably true lady.excellent words from thought

  96. awful-truth

    Considering all the documentaries and blogs I have seen, no one talks about Donald Rumsfeld getting on t.v the day before 9 11 and informing the public that the pentagon has misplaced 2.3 trillion dollars that they can't account for! I have never since seen any major media outlet mention it since, not even when the economy collapsed and everyone was freaking out on Obama for injecting 800 billion dollars in financial bailout. ( a third of the amount) This is not a coincidence, and probably the best proof that the Bush administration had forwarned knowledge of the impending attack. This of course combined with an Israeli company breaking it's lease and vacating the world trade center a week before the attack, and 2 declassified memos from the CIA that the U.S was going to be attacked in the second week of September, 2001. The solution to illegally attack Iraq killing 700,000 people and displacing 4 million when they had nothing to do with it, was a war crime to gain control over the 2nd largest oil reserve in the world. Now, if this isn't enough evidence to bring Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Perle, Crystal, Libby to the international courts for war crimes, (pre-emptive attack is illegal, established during the Nuremburg trials), then everyone should quit their whining and question the credibility of their own government. Of course, this will never happen due to personal fear, which is why humanity is on the doorstep of it's own demise. We are the weakest link, so good bye!

  97. Scott Henthorn

    This is appalling. The work on B-7 is sad.

    Notice they do not deal with the idea that Popular Mechanics is a CIA front.

    Not one of the Pop Mech staff is anymore of an expert than the average 911 truther, yet they sell themselves as immutable.

    More than once they call on the Myth of the bumbling government.

    No mention that the Bushies acted on the findings of the 911 Commission 3 years before it was produced.

    The Carpenter.

  98. Scott Henthorn


  99. jack1952

    @ whitt23

    If the evidence is gone how can you convict? Could you imagine being charged with a serious crime and being found guilty because there is no evidence left. Lack of evidence means lack of guilt whether we like it or not. It would be a mockery of justice if lack of evidence was proof of guilt. It would be like a medieval witch hunt. Hold his head under water and if he drowns he's guilty. I don't believe you or any reasonable person would want justice dispensed in that manner.

  100. jack1952

    @ dedman

    What kind of news reporter predicts the news. (setting off nukes for population control)

  101. albury

    You answered exactly none of my questions.

  102. Greg

    is it just me or does anyone else get the feeling that they want to slap that Popular Mechanics guy Davin Coburn(i think thats his name)for being such a smug little turd?

  103. Minister

    I've watched about 30 minutes of this video. And I don't think I can stomach any more BS. This Doc sipmly says "These myths are really easy to debunk. We the Experts say this is just not true, it is factually inaccurate."Rinse and repeat. These 'experts' give no proof at all, and use the tittle "Conspiracy theorist" to make anyone who opposes the Governments view of 9/11 lose credibility.

    Maybe i'm wrong, and maybe this doc gives a load of evidence in the closing five minutes, but I highly doubt it. Rather than relying on facts they decide to dress themselves in and suits and white lab coats and claim "We are experts! Believe us. They are conspiracy nuts. They have no proof" over and over again in an impressive fashion in a desperate attempt to persuade the masses.

  104. Drew

    Funny thing is, I've never even heard about Popular Mechanics. I wiki-ed them and all I got was a paragraph. Just because you own a magazines who's PRIMARY purpose is to be SOLD for MONEY doesn't allow you to present "facts" without any proof. That just makes it your opinion.

    Which means that this documentary is really just the opinions of some magazine company that I've never heard about.

    Hmm, I just read the entire wiki page about P.M. Apparently it is " is a subsidiary of the Hearst Corporation, which also has an ownership stake in the History Channel." Which means that these guys are just part of the government controlled mainstream media.

    I like to give everyone a fair chance with there theories but I'm calling Bull Shit on this.

  105. Dedman


    I concede your point that 'predictions' should be left to soothsayers and prophets. However, when enough information is gathered from past events, historical research and present information, one can make certain 'projections'. Much like grasping the German V1 & V2 rocket programs of WWII would eventually have space exploration implications or the gruesome Nazi medical experiment data would lead to future medical breakthroughs. The PTB simply allowed the experiments to continue because no other country could carry out the monstrous tests and trials in such a manner. (ie: subjecting humans to a vacuum...this had serious implications later on for the eventual tie-in to space exploration)
    My point being is that there seems to be a NWO plan in place and in action that is building to a crescendo. Whether it be an asteroid, ET or global catastrophe (see H.A.A.R.P type projects) scare...something's afoot. Ever since Tesla unleashed the 'zero point energy' scheme and disseminated that information to world powers, there seems to be a race, of sorts, to global domination. Could H.A.A.R.P be the result? Seems plausible enough.
    What I DO know is that no matter the historic event, only years or decades later do we, the public, learn certain truths about the govt's complicity or involvement. And whatever information is released, the actual truth is typically 10Xs worse than what we learn.
    I will apologize for my 'conjecture' and hope you'll forgive me a bit of creative license on my 'predictions'....Perhaps I've become too jaded and cynical in my later years.

  106. Dedman


    If you'll allow me this sidebar:

    As I stated, I am a 'former' news reporter. It was only after years in the 'business' did I resign due to personal ethical conflicts.
    I began to see a tangible shift in the actual machinations of the media that I was not comfortable with that made me leave the profession. News was no longer gathered, investigated and disseminated. I was told to regurgitate Federal, Governmental and even local civic 'press releases' as fact without further follow-up or dissection. This was something I wasn't prepared to accept.
    I was also pulled into my editor's office at one point and told that I must restructure my articles and stories to an eighth grade comprehension level or below. Again, I took issue with that request. I was told to 'sensationalize the headline' while starving the actual article of fact and honest body. I left the publishing business and went into news radio. This was like bailing from a failing airliner without remembering to affix a parachute. The 'news' you hear on television and radio is filtered for advertisers and agendas. I eventually left radio, as well.
    I realize the anonymity of the internet is a 'safe place' for liars and spin-masters. Yet, I feel there is a lot of great information floating around here that can be parsed and weeded through to get some semblance of fact if researched well. I greatly appreciate Vlatco for providing such a wonderful resource such as this site and I appreciate the personal exchanges herein.

  107. Greg

    @ Drew
    I sort of thought it was a kids magazine and in the USA (I am generalizing a bit here) most businesses, newspapars etc are owned by a handful of people hence the media coverups on most things.

  108. iudwmtdu

    I dont know what i believe,yet. but in fairness a lot of conspiracy documentries offer up a lot more eveidence than this piece of crap.

  109. Scott Henthorn

    Benjamin Chertoff cousin of Michael Chertoff wrote the original Pop Mech 911 piece while his older cousin was the secretary of the new Dep of Homeland Security.

    Hmmmm. The media is not only biased it is infiltrated.

  110. Scott Henthorn

    Delete my above. further research makes this claim ucertain. Though B Chertoff's arrival at Pop Mech is timely.

  111. Voice of Treason


  112. Peter Leclair

    @awful truth Excellent point I noticed as well and I find it hard to believe that the people havent stormed Washington in anger.If the U.S. citicens could gather at least 4million to march on Washington and threaten the congress with death.Ill bet my last dollar congress would turn on its own people proving that they know the truth.It absolutely sickens me so fuckin much to even hear the names of the bush devil administration and the fact that all these years I had been duped to believe that poor Israel is our allies and to find out the truth that involves them as conspirators.We should have let the reich take care of them and for us to feel sorry for them makes me want to puke.If the justice cannot be done hear then hopefully the devil will get the souls from all who murdered that day and that fate is far more gruesome and neverending damnation is what they will get soon.

  113. rtm

    Um, The so-called experts in this documentary have less scientific proof than the truth seekers. All they keep saying is that "this couldn't have happened"," that would be impossible" ect. This is just so stupid. I love how so many people are intelligent enough to see through this illusion, and know just by common sense how ridiculous all this is.

    Most of these people are drama junkies. They think that two building and a few thousand dead relatives is bad? Maybe they should take a look at the kind of horrible tragedies that have occurred all of the other continents, and are still occurring for years now thanks too the U.S. This is greater than just some buildings this is disgusting. If the American nation experiences a real war one day on their own soil they will keep their mouth shut for the next few hundred years.

  114. rtm

    oh oh, lol. I think someone is censoring my comments.

  115. Frankowro

    My Gosh this is all propaganda and bulls**t!

    They're trying to refute non "scientific" information (not so nonscientific for me) with against-the-laws-of-physics information... Well that talks for itself...

  116. Peter Leclair


  117. wake up

    When looking for proof that something is not right, the thing that has been bothering me the most is absolutely the whole pentagon plane thing ..
    It's like you see the movie of the plane flying into the building, but i have been pausing it and i just cant make out a plane in the video, it just looks different.
    Also i had the idea it went to fast.(but i'm not sure about that because the movie you get is really frame by frame or something)
    And then there had been no wrack or anything left , but as i remember they WHERE able to identify people that had been on the plane ...
    And then they wont let anyone see the tape or they even destroyed it??

    Now im sorry but thats some messed up situation in my opinion!(This appart from the inmense load of other stuff that has been repeatedly said by people here and everywhere)

  118. wake up

    Why do the media show us the impact of the planes of the wtc 100000 times and why do we only get a very short (5second?) video from the pentagon?

  119. Kraexaie

    right, because there has never once in history been a conspiracy or a fulse flag operation.

  120. Reasons Voice

    I steer clear of this one as much as I can because it tends to be a powder-keg of bat S#!T crazy. However;
    To the poster that asked "why no video of pentagon crash?" Maybe because the pentagon has allot fewer people with cellphone cams and camcorders just lingering about. Kinda fits the theme of the pentagon being the central hedquarters for groups like the CIA.
    My take is this; (and I don't really care to argue it). Perhapse there was a "controlled demolition". But that does not have to be part of some grand government scheme. I thought long and hard about this issue. My conclusion; That it is entirely plausable that every major skyrise type building has a preset demolitions array in place. That is contingent to just such a disaster as this. In the rolle of city planner it makes sense to ave such a system in place since it is far safer and economically sound to drop a structure that is compromised in place than to let it topple sideways. A good friend of mine is deep into all of the WTC truth issue and he asked me this. "Why the cover up then?" Well what do you suppose would happen to the property values within every major metropolitan area if it became known that their luxury apartment on the 130th floor is part of a structure pre-rigged to explode? Honestly the logic of that argument is pretty damn sound and a bit more down to earth than Buildebergs, Bushes, Oil barrons, Skull and bones members, And "cause they had to destroy the Roswell evidence and Elvis clones housed in there".

  121. wake up

    LoL i have to say i find that one of the weirdest and most funny theories so far.
    You are actually saying that you think city planners put explosives or so in every big building??:P

    I dunno anything about city planning etc. and i'm not going to argue about that either, but that does sound a bit weird to me..

    But so is alot of other stuff in this world ;)

  122. Reasons Voice

    All one needs to do to understand the theory I stated above is look at the issue from a neutral perspective. A monotary perspective. The overall cost of life as well as overall financial cost of dropping a building in place is far better than the cost of a toppleing building. An in-place drop is designed to avoid damage to surrounding structures, that is why it is employed in controlled demo. If one planns for the contingency of some event causing massive structural damage it is a logical failsafe to have in place. Given the fact that ten years previous to 9/11 a van bomb in the basement parking structure was tried to destroy the WTC it also makes sense that someone had to thing about the structural damage possibility. The use of specialized nano-thermite that can only detonate with the correct electrical charge would be the safest and most effective solution. Such a charge would not be detonated by a non-catastrophic structural fire. It also explains the disparity between the collapses of the portions of the building above and below the impact zone. perhapse the electronic connections to the upper portion were severed by the damage from impact and could not be detonated. Also if the report back from the fire department within the building was that the upper portions had sustained enough structural damage to topple, and by doing so impact surrounding structures, detonation of the lower stories makes sense. This is all from a more pragmatic point of view. Just like having a fire-break of brush and trees around a fire pit is to ensure we dont dammage the surrounding forrest. And like activating a sprinkler system to combat a fire. The water may do plenty of damage but when weighed against the building burning down it's the logical choice.

  123. Keith

    @ Reasons Voice...

    I can see where you're comming from and it would make sense to include some mechanism to drop skyscapers when the structure was being built but I think such a concept would have hit the papers a long time ago....can you imagine The Sun or The Daily Mirror (UK) running with a story like that?

  124. Keith

    Besides, Anyone who has watched all the videos and read up on it can see, the official report was a whitewash.

    There should be an independant inquiry. Simple. Only those with something to hide would be opposed to that.

  125. Keith

    [QuoteI watched the excerpts from Mechanics Magazine and just shook my head. Pure government propoganda. Don’t believe it for a minute.]

    @Arnald Vinette....

    I couldn't believe my ears when that bloke said something about all the "paper and office furniture" being somewhat contributary. If I'm not wrong that kind of fire burns @ 600degs. max. It's contribution would be about as much as a fart in a thunderstorm. And that wasn't the only garbage he came out with. An insult to those who suffered and are still.

  126. Reasons Voice

    @keith; That is exactly my point. Something like that by nature would require a cover-up. No need to dig so deep into the conspiracy trough than that. Cover up is necessitated by the immense backlash from the people and economic turmoil. What is basically an essential fail-safe measure is misinterpreted by the masses as malicious intent and subsequently billions of dollars worth of real estate is abandoned and trillions in law suits ensue.

  127. Scott Henthorn

    @ R’s V,

    You’re kidding, right? Beginning to question your worthiness for you handle. Were the Explosives put in place in 1973? Have you ever worked on a construction site? How on earth would explosives be included in a building without workers noticing on this site or any of the many others? Who would inspect this work? How would it pass or fail? Do architects design these systems? How could this potential public safety problem remain under the public radar for more than 30 years? Who decided to pull the switch before the buildings were evacuated, and kill all those people?

    Should I go on?

  128. addy

    can someone tell me were there any passengers on boing that hit pentagon? and what happened to them if that was not an airplane (but small airplane or missile). I mean how can someone fake a comercial flight with passengers

  129. Reasons Voice

    @Scott Henthorne; By item of your inquiry. No they would not have been put into place in 1973 during construction. Nano-Thermite was not even existent at that time. If it was put into place it would have been more recent. Perhaps after the failed bombing in 1993. I have worked at construction sites however none of that scale. How that is a qualifier for conjecture I do not know. Since it is not my supposition that it was part of the building process, if indeed it did exist, no the architect and the workers would not have known about it.
    The question you raise in essence there is how could one cover up such a thing with so many people around and involved. That same question applies to the theory of government involvement and placement of explosives. Does it not? It would not be "under public radar" as you say for 30 years. If indeed it was conceived resultant to the 1993 bombing then it was less than 10 years. Furthermore if you honestly think that hiding something from public scrutiny is a difficult if not insurmountable task then you should break that news to everyone else on this and any other conspiracy thread. I don't propose that this did indeed take place only that it would be one plausible explanation to the inconsistencies that fuel the 9/11 truthers. As to your final point. Who would be in charge of calling for the switch to be thrown. That would likely have been someone like Giuliani or Pataki. Some high official in political office of New York. And was done as intended as a final fail safe to ensure a clean drop as opposed to a topple. I personally knew 3 people who lost loved ones there so trust me the lives lost are far from trivial to me. However the vast majority of those who died did so in the fires and in floors above the impact sites. The number of those below impact site who could have been evacuated prior to detonation if given time before toppling is quite minuscule in comparison to the number of people who would have died if indeed the towers did fall sideways into surrounding streets and structures. A hard decision to make? YES! But the right one to make in such a scenario? again YES!

  130. Peter Leclair

    @REASONS VOICE Without a doubt I find some conspiracy theorists need to wake up and smell the coffee when it comes to logical thinking.To work as a janitor at night would seem to be the ideal time to place the thermite over a period of several months even years.To plan such a huge undertaking would be quite easy for the specialists who could pose as structural engineers and placing a do not enter sign for each area that is in need of checking and those who work in the specific areas,N,S,E,W,corners of the structure is where the thermite needs to be placed in order to free fall the towers.Such a massive undertaking would be very easy as those who worked in the towers were not there 24 hours a day and caution signs or area closed for painting or drywall repair.The fact i need to press with my experience in the civil engineering field is quite simple.When a building of such size is in freefall,there is no way period that the concrete would pulverise as such and the tower would have leaned towrds a collapse that would have come down like a tree not like what we witnessed. The fact is the people have been duped and the tyrants who are responsible pretend that they are smarter than the thousands of engineers and explosive experts have told the facts while the Government is humming and hawing as they lie to pretend that they are smarter when all they do is wear a suit while the real pros where hardhats.Why dont we demand they take a lie detector test as they demand such things from us if we are suspects in a crime.The truth could be the downfall of man.

  131. Peter Leclair

    @addy. If they cant find the turbines that were unbreakable.Then human bones would have practically shattered on impact an were swept away from the heat.I understand your Question.But your government would not give any answer as they are smarter than we are when asked such questions. The pros or so called GOV pros would be humming and hawing and next question. Ask Popular Mechanics. They seem to have all the idiotic answers.

  132. wake up

    @ addy That is exactly my problem with the pentagon thing , but i have heard once of a plan by some goverment officials.
    The plan they had was let take off a commercial airplain with students on board and then on a certain place the plane would be landing and at the same time a remote controlled cia plane or so would take off from that location.
    The plane would then fly over sea towards cuba where it would be "shot down" or so over cuban area and there you have a major incident.

    This seemed to have been a plan that made it to some part of the goverment at some time.
    Now if this is true and im not saying it is but if so it could be how this was done.
    This indeed makes one worry about what could have happened to the passengers.

  133. Farren

    "To the poster that asked “why no video of pentagon crash?” Maybe because the pentagon has allot fewer people with cellphone cams and camcorders just lingering about."

    there were numerous security cameras showing the area of the flight path into the Pentagon. the government, immediately following 9/11, went in and took all footage from those tapes and has never shown them to the public.

  134. Farren

    ...what's more, is that eyewitnesses who worked in gas stations and buildings that were right in that area say that the official explanation is not what they saw. their stories have never been listened to in the official explanation. some of the 9/11 documentaries here show their interviews. the powers that be don't want their stories to be heard.

  135. jack1952

    @ Peter Leclair

    March on Washington and threaten Congress with death and they will turn on you. Threaten anyone with death and they will defend themselves. Your suggesting that people should turn on them. That is lynch mob mentality. Your proposal is absolutely frightening and in the end it really isn't what you want. Unless you hope that you will lead the New World Order that you are replacing. Since you have shown a predisposition to violence to gain your objectives the world would still be no better off.

  136. addy

    at peter leclair
    i mean where are the relatives of those passengers, i mean if you had your brother on that plane, you would know if he died in that crash, so if he died there, then in is true that it was boing 707, do you understand what i mean? and if that was a missile, then there would be no passenger casualties, so my question is simple -how many passenger were killed in the 707 crash with pentagon?

  137. Mikey666

    This is pure dis-information and another desperate attempt to disguise the fact, that innocent people were murdered for the political and economic gain of the few. May the innocent victims of this atrocity/mass murder rest in peace

  138. Peter Leclair

    @addy In my response to the issue of what happened to the people who were on the plane that struck the Pentagon,The question posed a signifigant problem to the Pentagon and I am certain that they used the images from one camera which does not show a plane but something more sinister.What I am saying is this was used as a distraction so that the American people wanted images of a plane and recieved lousy images of something else travelling at such a high rate of speed it was not defined as a plane so the Questions were steered towards the video and the Powers that be manipulated the people away from this question.Who was on the plane and how many lives were lost is the issue still unanswered and will never come to light.Without a doubt The world is turning on the U.S.and more revelations are coming to light.The Bush,Cheney,Rumsfeld,Wolfowits clan are in the real serious scenario that they will half to answer these facts and questions and the real possibility that the truth would set off such a JIHAD of mass murder against the people of the us who seek the truth while the powers that were are in a bunker drinking champagne like the NAZIS in ww2 did while the truth seekers half to fear for the lives of innocent people while the murderers are kept safe. I did understand your question but became caught up with the material issue from the wreckage.I apologise to you @addy and stand firm with your thoughts as well as thpousands who want answers but we will be at war if the facts come to life.A war of immense scale that the U>S> and Great Britain may half to endure years of terror because of this scum

  139. dunebug

    Blah blah blah, Conspiracy theorists wake up, its even said that all your so called facts are dead ends or irrelevant. And the so called "Loose Change" was made by a kid out of high school. Cant imagine him being an expert at much other than popping zits.

  140. Peter Leclair

    @jack1952 I did suggest a march and was a bit dramatic on how best to describe such a situation.This frightening with 4 million people marching in Washington would have no other outcome accept violence and my reasons are very real.Of the thousands who were murdered on 911 the families of the victims would demand justice as the time it would take to gather such a crowd.The people are not marching to the grenaderes march rather the people are demanding justice and will have it no other way.You honestly dont think they would gather such an event only to go home cause the government is not taking questions on that day. I am not suggesting to stage violence but I am suggesting of the immense crowd who may be the grieving families are wanting action as anger would fill the air. The G8 summit in Toronto was suppose to be a peaceful gathering to protest,look what happened in the first three hours.Many were peacefull people but became dragged in as the black masked protesters were burning cars hurling bottles at the police and it became a nightmare for Toronto,Police brutality began with pepperspray which only fueled the fire causing millions in damage and contless arrests and injuries. When 4 million people march in the us and are met with the sa,me scenario you must understand they are marching for justice and the fact that they have been led to believe that terrorists were responsible only to find out much different facts.The rage would be justified.I am not a violent person at all and I am much to old to participate in such an event.All I am trying to say my good friend is that serious crimes took place on that day and for the truth to come out would without a doubt cause many to turn on there government.For if they can get away with murder.What other secret dastardly deeds were committed in the name of democracy.

  141. YeaRight

    Expert response??? more like a… Popular Sellout!!!

  142. YeaRight

    Will someone point out to me, where (1) debunk claim, addressed in this documentary by the “Expert Response” provides a detailed investigative conclusion to support any of their counter claims?

    If you really look and listen, the “Expert Response” aren’t providing any detailed investigative counter arguments to support their claims, the “Expert Respondents” are only providing their “Opinions” and trying to legitimize their “Opinions” by calling them a “Expert Response”.

    Where “911 Truthers” have detailed investigative researched/arguments to support their claims, here I can’t find anything that resembles anything like a detailed investigative researched/argument to support the so called “Expert Response” claims.

    If this documentary was intended to be about proving an unsupported “Opinion”, I think it does a pretty good job, where “Facts” are concerned it does nothing of the sort!

    Popular Mechanics or Popular Opinions?

  143. Georga Grivois

    This Mockumentory is typical of those being put out to keep us off guard. There is Far more evidence that points to an "Inside Job" than there are lame answers to our questions! We The People just want the Truth..Bush is out of Office..must we wait until he and his cohorts-Cheney-Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz are dead before we are told it?

  144. 420 Vision

    Why is so much time and energy being spent assasinating the character of those who do not believe the official conspiracy theory as outlined in the 9/11 Commission Report. Are these folks with awakened minds so terrible ?

    The only thing neccessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do nothing.

  145. jack1952

    @ Peter Leclair

    A crime is ALLEGED to have happened on 9/11. Of course without an investigation we can never know. The burden of proof is still with the accuser. The accusers have some excellent questions but they have a tendency to answer the questions in the same breath. There is a long way to travel from a question to an answer. If a truther would focus on one aspect of those attacks and do a thorough and unbiased investigation and elements of the government is clearly implicated in wrong doing, then even the doubters would start to insist on another commission. Being able to paint plausible scenarios does not indicate guilt.

    @ Cathy

    If there are these military personnel willing to testify to a plot why isn't any one interviewing them. It would be easy to film it and air on the Internet. This would be the type of evidence that could be a great deal more plausible that all the speculation these documentaries are engaged in.

  146. Gough

    I must apologize, I am was talking to Jack 1952, not Peter Leclair. See, one must be willing to be pragmatic and adjust when one is incorrect haha.


  147. Peter Leclair

    @GOUGH Thanks for the generous feedback as I agree with all my experience that the truth seekers performed the painstaking task of seeking the experienced personel in the thousands who make it clear to see that the Government has 0 legs to stand on with there so-called expertise in the field of heat and what types are needed to topple the towers.

    As I stated many times this needs to be addressed again and the very real truth would without a doubt cause undo harm to the people of the U.S.A.and the allies that stand firm in believing that 19 men could cause 17% of the worlds wealth in the trillions.I am not American and I dont half to be for seeking justice and I feel with all my heart that If the BUSH,CHENEY,RUMSFELD.,./,./,.holes were to be tried.

    The whole Arab world would seek a JIHAD on such a grand scale for being lied to and WW3 would be inevitable.The real pisser is that these people are still in Government dealings of the blackest crimes throughout the world and like Cheney stated on national that the operations would be in the shadows. I just don't understand how the media was supportive of the demolition theory but 24 hours later say absolutely nothing again.

    This is the national media who are suppose to find the truth instead they cover-up the entire issue and it never comes to light again.This tells me that we should not trust any gov,media ever again.Now if Dick Cheney was to have open heart surgery well this patriot would get all kinds of attention.

    Such as how well he served in office for over 30 years[at]GOUGH.No matter how much truth is out there we as humans will always be plagued by the scum who corrupt the society that the people elect and I fear that soon the entire globe will self destruct beginning with North America and it will be one person with high powers in the Government who will confess on his deathbed that will open a can of worms Soon this will be and there is nothing that can be done accept to pray for a quick end to such an evil empire.

    I am certain there are many millions who see such a deathnell happening and in fact the wtc was the beginning of the end as the bible predicts with absolute fact the time is near.I am not a religious nut but I feel something is up. Maybe the justice will come swift and a new dawn will await. But until then I will never trust a politician ever again

  148. Peter Leclair

    @Ryan Jones with this said I am convinced without even looking deeper that it makes sense that the shafts are the cores of the building and for work to be done without interruption makes the best scenario a reality.I truly have worked on many skyrises and the shaft is without a doubt the most logical place to hide the thermite as well as the hidden areas that were needed to make the way for a controlled demo to go on tired of typing as we are no where now than we were before.But i would love this to end with some consequences to the evil ones

  149. Manch

    Even without watching this video, I knew that all of the 9/11 conspiracy loons are either crazy, brain-dead, America-hating, Jew-hating, islam-apologetic or out to make a buck. This video,one of the rare gems on this website filled with typically left-wing nonsensical garbage.

  150. Gough


    Go back to sleep, everything is all right.... shushh, not a word, go back to sleep, there you go...let the adults have a talk...

    You ever noticed how people who believe in reviewing a movie without looking at it, look really unevolved? You ever noticed that? Eyes real close together, eyebrow ridges, big furry hands and feet. "I believe God created me in one day" Yeah, looks like He rushed it.

  151. Jellybaby

    So where was the evidence to disprove the conspiracy theorists? All that docu. did was present conspiracy theories that had a valid question to ask about the tragedy of 9/11, and then have some nobody merely slate the conspiracy theorist, rather than actually debunk the theory with real facts. You can't just say "well he's a crazy conspiracy theorist" and not actually answer the question that that conspiracy theorist has raised. I have my doubts about some of the theories about 9/11, but this film has in no way convinced me that any of these pertinent questions have been answered sufficiently by the government's version of these events.

    Still so many questions, and still so few answers. Will we ever find out the truth? I am sorry for all you people that get called 'loons,' 'truthers,' and 'crazy' for merely asking questions and seeking the truth. There is no conspiracy theory here, it's just loose ends that seem to have been left to dangle.

  152. TheParadigmShift

    The Popular Mechanics 9/11 hit piece was authored by Benjamin Chertoff, Homeland security secretary Michael Chertoff's cousin.

    The Popular Mechanics attempt at debunking 9/11 theories is full of strawman arguments and junk science.

    See: 'The New American Century' to find out who really did 9/11 and why.

  153. acovenientpoliticalscam

    I have been trying to incorporate a company, but I seem to be encountering all kinds of ridiculous red tape.

    My new company would be called: Demolition by Fire Inc.

    We will specialize in steel framed building demolition. BUT unlike conventional demolition companies, our process would cost a fraction of this incredibly involved process.

    Our plan is to enter the targeted building.

    Then, using large quantities of kerosene we will create fires on various floors, starting near the top.

    I figure 3 or 4 would be sufficient...but because we care, we will set 10 or more...depending on the size of the building.

    Then all we have to do is exit the building and wait anywhere from about an hour to 8 hours until the building comes down with perfect symmetry into its own footprint.

    All of, or at least most of, the requisite steel beams and columns will be cut at convenient 30 to 40 foot lengths for easy loading and hauling and all of the concrete will be pulverized due to the inertia that carried it to the ground.

    Clean up will be about the same as a conventional demo company.


    As there is a precedent set for this type of demolition (in fact 3 different precedents, in the same city on the same day. Including 2 of the most amazingly redundant steel-framed buildings in modern construction history), I am confused as to why I have to answer all these hard technical questions about how this will be achieved, just to incorporate my company.

    Any thoughts?

  154. Gough


    I found an eHow to article that could help you with your new business Demolition by Fire Inc. There seems to be quite a few demolition companies that have abandoned their old fashioned demolition technologies, and moved over to Kerosene/Gasoline demolition techniques to get there free fall demolition contracts done. The cost savings using this technology, by setting half a dozen random Kerosene blazes in a skyscraper for a couple of hours, is now the way to go for Demolition in the twenty-first century.

    Good Luck with you demolition biz acovenientpoliticalscam, sounds like you are on the right track. With this now tried and tested Kerosene demolition technique scientifically approved by Popular Mechanics, you should make a major profit on your Demolition adventures.

    All the Best,


    By an eHow Contributor

    A demolition business can be started with a much smaller investment for tools and equipment than other building and contracting services. In addition to income from demolition services, careful deconstruction can pay off handsomely in additional profits that you make from collecting reusable building materials during demolition activities.

    Difficulty: Moderately Easy

    Things You'll Need:
    Building Market

    1) Read Environmental Protection Agency rules, local laws and safety regulations related to this business. Some states and cities even require specific training and experience in the demolition industry. In some areas of the country, union membership may be needed.

    2) Conduct market research for your state and local area. Visit the Start up Journal website for market research and business promotion tips. Get prices from your competitors and estimate rates to charge for traditional (explosives) and alternative (Kerosene) demolition methods.

    3) Review your state and local governments' waste disposal laws. Arrange for proper disposal or recycling of building materials with appropriate landfills and salvage buyers. China buys massive steel frame structures after they are brought down by controlled demolition. Order the boats to be at the dock weeks in advance. Advance notice is always recommended, particularly for spontaneous / same day impulse demolitions of skyscrapers.

    4) Investigate markets for salvaged building materials, demolition waste and by-products. Re-sale of Active Militarized Nano Thermatic demolition explosives, which often show up in the pulverized dust when not used, for resale in the tons. Look at alternative Insurance policies to take out a couple of weeks before the demolition for a bit of extra money.

    5) Find and contact local residential and commercial building contractors, politicians, or intelligence agencies, if the buildings to be demolitioned have laws that require notifying occupants. Give plenty of notice if legally required to notify building occupants, but there are ways around this if employer requests alternative. Many prefer to outsource the removal of interior and exterior appointments from the residence or large structural steel buildings if ANY pre-planning is involved. (Optional)

    6) Establish working relationships with one or more Contractors, Intelligence Agencies, politicians, Lease holders (if applicable) depending on their workload and your capacity to complete demolition tasks.

    7) Practice vaporizing school busses, old Titanium Jet engines at your local dumpsite, or infrequently used solid Iron or Structural Steel Bridges by pouring Kerosene on them. Practice this technique until mastered before moving onto large Iron & Steel Concrete skyscrapers and battleships.


    1) Obtain a business license and any required permits and insurance, this may be optional in your area.

    2) Get suppliers for dumpsters, equipment and tools. Find repair, refinishing and refurbishing tools and supplies like; Nano-thermite, also called "super-thermite", the common name for a subset of metastable intermolecular composites (MICs) characterized by a highly exothermic reaction after ignition; Remote wireless detonator charges (standard); or just use the modern alternative demolition technology like Kerosene.

    3) Identify appropriate space for storage of salvaged building materials. Ask, where am I going to store 30 to 40 feet length large structural steel beams after the kerosene fires have done there work, for example.

    4) Recruit and hire employees to assist with demolition like Demolition Experts, Intelligence Agency’s Special Team Operation Technicians, Mexican Migrant Workers, Building Materials Recovery Specialists, Construction Waste Transportation and Body Disposal Experts.

    5) Advertise your demolition services. Create a marketing calendar, based on your market research and seasonal fluctuations in the demolition business. Schedule your marketing efforts to potential contractors and your potential buyers. Stress secrecy & confidentiality above all else as a hallmark of your company’s ethics.

    6) Setup your accounting system to track your accounts payable, your accounts receivables and your cash on hand. A Swiss bank account will need to be set up. Track profits with monthly cash flow projections. Find tools for making these on the AllBusiness website.

  155. acovenientpoliticalscam


    This is Great Info!...Sheesh I thought it was an original idea. I have to admit though, that using Mexican migrant workers for body disposal, never dawned on me....What a cost savings that will create!

    I never even thought of that aspect either...and it has me thinking of some new advertising copy.

    Like: "Get rid of that pesky old building and all those employees you don't like all at once! By using Demolition by Fire Inc's, new patented process!"

    We all know based on the evidence, things like prima-cord Thermite and Thermate type explosives, are no longer the only way that buildings can be brought to global collapse, so these materials will not be needed . All of the sequential firing processes and weeks of building preparation are also completely redundant. Therefore, no highly technical computerized layouts will be needed to coordinate this effort. I figure a couple of guys carrying backpacks with kerosene tanks (possibly, illegal immigrants can be used here too, I'll have to check the labor laws. I mean I would HATE to use illegal aliens, illegally) could spray enough to bring that sucker down in about 20 minutes. There will need to be some training done, because these workers WILL have to be able to determine where the kerosene has to be sprayed in to order to ensure our company's commitment to the steel being cut to sizes that can be immediately loaded on trucks.

    The storage of materials will not be necessary, because our company will be immediately posting an ad on ebay along the lines of:

    "Large quantity of high quality construction materials for sale at vastly reduced prices for quick sale." I'm thinking China will be all over that one.

    The Swiss Bank account part just makes sense. I mean, why keep your wealth in a North American bank?

    I thank you for this very useful information and if you are ever thinking of a new job....We will need a National Demolition Coordinator, in our North American division.


  156. acovenientpoliticalscam


    ...and thank you.....apparently, not everyone has stopped paying attention

  157. Jesus in another guise

    I'm of the opinion that who gives a flying F*ck if it was an inside Job but it's obvious that the towers werent blown up because no one seen any typical sign of that, it wasn't blown from the bottom as the video correctly says.
    My problem with this is that after the lockerbie bombing in Scotland half of the plane was still visible.
    At the end of the day though wether certain things don't seem right it does no good in thinking about it, that would be just the same as saying that since pearl harbour was an inside Job then we have to stop the War against Japan.
    I don't think it works like that and these idiots who are making these videos need a slap, they are like a cancer eating us from inside, they are doing more damage than Al-Queda could ever have dreamed of. It wouldn't surprise me if they were getting an anonymous donation from the middle east to continue in their efforts because they are doing a great job at defeating us and laying a clear route open for the Islamification of American society. Don't forget Americans we in Europe need you to save our sorry as* when our countries are on the brink of becoming Islamic. WW3 being on it's way isn't an unrealistic prospect by any means.

  158. Gough

    Dear Mr. Acovenientpoliticalscam

    I have no experience performing demolition work. But, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to be Demolition by Fire Inc’s National Demolition Coordinator in your North American division.

    As soon as I realized that I could live my fantasy of becoming a Demolition Expert with no experience or training.... I decided to GO FOR IT!

    To put my worries to rest about Popular Mechanics’ magazines Kerosene demolition “Theory” used SO EFFECTIVILY by the evildoer terrorist’s (who hate our freedom & sit on our oil fields in the Middle East) attacks on the 3 WTC buildings that fell on September 11... I decided to do a science test.

    I immediately went outside and poured a cup of Kerosene on my Barbeque Grill and tossed a match on it to “pull” the barbeque.

    I would like to report.... MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!

    The barbeque burned for about 80 minutes or so I’m guessing, there was a few steaks and potatoes in there smoldering away with thick brown smoke. THEN, like the Popular Mechanics said would happen, BANG BANG BANG, and the barbeque fell in 6.5 seconds and into its own footprint!

    Thank god I had a Shop Vac. The steel barbeque turned into pulverized dust and easy to pick up 4” inch pieces of steel. Clean up was easy, and even sold the 4” pieces that was left over from the Barbeque as scraps to my Asian neighbor.

    I must say I was a little worried that Kerosene my not work on cement and steel structures as a demolition technology. The idea that Kerosene could do these miracle demolitions on cement and steel structures contravened logic and my elementary school science classes.

    I mean Popular Mechanics sounded SO ridiculous to me at first, that you ask yourself “who in their right mind would believe such nonsense?” Light some fires? Free fall implosion into own footprint...Kerosene?” I thought to myself initially, “what’s going on here Popular Mechanics, are you like Michael Chertoff’s cousin or something? But with a few simple tests, like the Barbeque test, and we can see Popular Mechanics “theory” was right about blowing up buildings with this new Kerosene demolition technology....

    NOTE: UPDATE: I have had a job offer from National Institute of Standards and Technology to be one of there experts on Kerosene demolition technology, and I don’t even know what NIST stands for? Great news, great money, good times, really flexible hours, lots and lots of perks that come with working in the Military Industrial Complex.

    I will do both jobs. I will work as Demolition by Fire Inc’s National Demolition Coordinator of the North American division & NIST’s Kerosene demolition technology resident Expert. Hey....How hard could it be?



  159. acovenientpoliticalscam

    oh wait I can help you...By a clever dissection of the Acronym, I have determined that it's either: "No Initial Stated Theory:" or "No Idiocy Stands Testing" I hope this helps.

    and to ummm you're serious:? "Jesus in another guise?" Like what? A cute doggy? an Ostrich?

    How can we defend your "who gives a flying F*ck'? I mean you're Jesus, disguised as a dog (perhaps). There are some who think an ostrich. I have to say personally: I am in the dog camp, but I digress.

    I really like the: "but it’s obvious that the towers werent blown up because no one seen any typical sign of that"

    That was really well researched, I'm sure, because why would you post it? Oh right! you're Jesus.....your Dad musta told you, huh?

    As someone far more interesting than you told another poster....shhhhh just go back to'll all be better in the morning...

    or maybe even the the mourning.

  160. acovenientpoliticalscam

    @ Gough again

    Training and expertise are highly over-rated in my opinion. I mean we are only talking about coordinating here. All the highly technical requirements will be carried out by Mexican migrants, as I outlined in the office memo.

    I am happy that you are practicing pertinent experiments, with regard to your new title and set of responsibilities.

    I am surprised and elated by the fact that it only took 80 minutes. This bodes well for maximum profit, in the least amount of time. I will inform the advertising department of this significant development.

    I am glad that you will have the backing of the highly regarded "NIST" organization (maybe you could get a certificate from them, for your office wall?)

    After reviewing your tests too I am thinking that perhaps the potatoes and or steak products speeded up the collapse, so we should think about incorporating them in our demolition proposals.

  161. Jesus in another guise

    @acovenientpoliticalscam everyone knows there are lies in every government, one lie leads to another but don't be blaming the whole of the American Government. I agree that it doesn't add up but the twin towers were not demolished. Answer this don't you think the American government would know that this would have happened if they blew up the towers they are not idiots. Lets have a look at the 7/7 conspiracy apparently the British government were carrying out an exercise identical to the events. When you hear that you think maybe there is something in this, it would enable the plan to go more smoothly but this scenario was actually broadcast on British television. What is more likely that the British government with all their thinking power are so stupid not to change the scenario or that someone copied the scenario and likely even knew about any exercise if there was one.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there is a bad apple in the government who did a deal with the saudis in order to fill their own pockets but the whole government were not behind it. It is always asked who benefitted most from 9/11 and I can tell you right now the Muslims did. Bin Laden wanted the USA to fight him on Muslim land with the plan to completely radicalize the Muslim world. It didn't quite work out with Afghanistan but it certainly worked for Iraq, someone in the Government may have been in with the Muslims, they get what they want and he gets a load of filthy money.

    At this time we are going to lose completely to Islam, the world will become Islamic within the next century due to people's attitudes of hating their own governments.
    They have used a very simple and effective tactic, divide and conquer. Obama is trying to bankrupt America giving money to the Muslims on the never never, money the USA doesn't have. Europe is in trouble, the Muslim population is growing 10 times faster than the non Muslim population, in a matter of Decades many countries will become Islamic republics. The USA has sharia law in many states already, there are Muslim brotherhood in government and inside Universities. Would that have been possible if everyone wasn't against this War. It's a war of survival and it hasn't even begun.

  162. acovenientpoliticalscam

    ok I read the first sentence. Where in anything that I posted did I accuse the US government of anything?

    I will leave it at that.

    thank you for your attempt.

  163. acovenientpoliticalscam

    and before you start again?

    I do not believe that lizard people rule the Earth, that Elvis has been pumping gas at my local station, or that people are generally picked up by UFO's and anally probed.

    I believe what I see. If you had a grade 9 mathmathics and physics understanding, you might grasp this. But please, stop trying to lead me into irrational debates.

    This will be my final comment to anything else you might say.


    There is SO much evidence that at the very least a shoddy job was done on the report. But who cares? It was just the first time that the US was EVER attacked on it's (homeland, a new phrase...never used before in any other regime) And that is constituted the

  164. acovenientpoliticalscam


    This will be my final comment to anything else you might say.


  165. Jesus in another guise

    All I can say about 9/11 is if the buildings were blown up by explosives then this whole event was planned by an agency with the purpose to discredit the American government. This is what it's all about. There should be an investigation to see who has been collaborating with the Radical Muslims in order to create this whole situation.

  166. Jack1952

    In your litany of conspirators, you forgot employees of United Airlines and American Airlines, air traffic controllers, family members who talked to victims of the hijacked airplanes, people who claimed to have seen planes flying into the Pentagon and the field in Pennsylvania, those who claimed they helped clear the wreckage of the planes at the Pentagon and Pennsylvania, and there has to be others. Although, I don't think Norad had to be in on it. There has never been an hijacked plane shot down in the west. Bush would have had to resign if an American commercial passenger plane was shot down let alone 4 of them for no apparent reason.

    Osama had declared war on the west, especially the United States. He bragged how his mujahideen had brought the Soviet empire to its knees. He believed that Allah would also give him a victory over the infidel west. One should never underestimate the zealotry of the religious extremist.

    There was no need to concoct an elaborate false flag operation. It was not a matter of if there was going to be an attack, but when. That it was as destructive as it was is probably way beyond the hijackers expectations. Also, the destruction of building 7 makes no sense. All that was accomplished was more suspicion, something someone who has committed treason would not want.

  167. oddsrhuge

    Osama Bin Laden declared war on the USA in 1998.

    Really? Before of after he resigned his CIA status as a friendly, or after he and his family severed all ties to the Bush family? Maybe check out what Michael Meacher, former Home secrectary of Britain, said about Al Queda and what all worldwide intelligence agencies knew about that particular organization.

    There are a ton of very easily accessable documents by... well (what certain people call credible sources, like the Washington Post, Fox News, etc etc ad nauseum) all over the internet about Mohammed Atta's association with the CIA. So stop trying to be clever, because you aren't.

    The statement, "It could easily have been a set up made to look like an inside Job anyway."

    Has got to be up there with: "I saw Santa Claus on my roof last night!" and he had a uzi, and he looked pissed!

    try harder...that was a weak effort.

  168. oddsrhuge

    Hey Gough, I totally respect you and your comments. No one who has seen the wealth of evidence, up to this point could possibly not look at the Commission report as anything but sheer fabrication. Seriously folks, MY GOD or DOG if you're and atheist!, Look at anything that my breathren the "conspiracy theorists" are pointing out as anomalies.

    Why did the BBC have building 7, pre-collapsed on "live" tv?

    Why are those tapes gone?

    Why when there were according to official estimates 87 cameras on the side of the pentagon, have we only been given one offical picture, (with the wrong date on it, by the way) and a couple of scethy pic from some businesses near by.

    It was a plane, no? Not an official secret. So why is national security cited?

    Why did NIST change their official story 3 times?

    as a cop, or investigator you would realize that when a story changes people are generally lying.

    Whay did Bush say that he saw the first hit on a TV outside the classroom? We know this is impossible. Apologists say that he just forgot the event. But even if it did happen? Why did he go into that classroom and read a book (upside down by the way) about a goat?

  169. James del Valle

    As for the incident with the BBC it would be easy for conspiracy theorists to superimpose that image into the background of tower 7 still standing or else the image in the live studio was a recorded image, if it was a missile that hit the pentagon by accident mayb'e then what is the difference it doesnt mean that terrorists didn't fly planes into the towers, as for Bush it is absolutely madness for him to say that but there is such a thing as false memories which can be created in peoples minds but lets say Bush knew about it, he is very friendly with the Saudi Arabians, it is obvious that the Muslims did it they have gained a lot out of this. I've not read the book written by Bush yet but I would be very interested to hear what he says about that.

    Ask yourself this if the United States did this to themselves what would be the odds of them making a mistake with every single incident, there is intent here there can be no doubt about that. The whole thing is a set up it cant be anything else it's impossible for it to be anything else.

  170. oddsrhuge

    if it was a missile that hit the pentagon by accident mayb'e then what is the difference it doesnt mean that terrorists didn't fly planes into the towers,

    WHAT???? You are conceding that a missile might have hit the Pentagon? But it was definitely the planes that brought down the towers. And, some "conpiracy theorist with great photo shop skills "fudged the BBC report.

    Tell me something? Do you work for Popular Mechanics, NIST, or even FEMA pehaps? Or were you just a major consultant for the commission report?

    ok, heres one for you. Molten metal in the basements of all 3 demolished buildings for months after the subsequent collapses. Confirmed by mainstream media accounts and eye-witnesses at ground zero, but denied to have ever happened by NIST.

    I eagerly await your amazing insight into this one.

  171. James del Valle

    These conspiracy theories dont stand up to much when you consider the laws of physics, they go on about fire not being hot enough to melt steel etc but they forget one very important factor and that is that Force = mass x accelaration.

    Miles per hour divided by 60 = miles per minute
    miles per minute divided by 60 = miles per second
    miles per second * 1609.344 = metres per second
    Force equals mass * accelaration
    accelaration = velocity/time^2
    velocity = speed
    mass = weight
    accelaration = change in velocity in metres per second squared

    when an object is moving at a velocity if it impacts an inpenetrable object the resulting force will be determined by the mass of the object and the sudden reduction in velocity multiplied by itself.
    350 metric tonne aircraft
    m * a
    650 mph - 350 * 289.7m/s^2 = 29.37x10^6
    500 mph - 350 * 222m/s^2 = 17.2x10^6
    200 mph - 350 * 89m/s^2 = 2.77x10^6
    150 mph -350 * 67.06m/s^2 = 1.57x10^6
    100 mph - 350 * 44.69m/s^2 = 0.699x10^6
    50 mph - 350 * 22.35m/s^2 = 0.1748x10^6

    As can be seen the difference in force on impact at the higher speeds is phenomenal compared to that at low speeds where the pilot is trying to regain control of the aircraft. I think this shows that the conspiracies are lacking because they do not consider impact force and are therefore not valid. The force acting upon the pentagon would have been far greater than that upon the towers because it was constructed using reinforced concrete.

  172. James del Valle

    Gough may'be they were designed to withstand a direct strike from an aircraft but not at 500mph, the figures show the massive difference in impact force between low speed and high speed impact. The significance is that the structural integrity of the building would have been compromised by the high impact force experienced.
    As for the demolition theory there was absolutely no visual evidence of a controlled demolition at the time of collapse, i.e. no sound of explosions or visual sign of them so I really don't understand why people keep going on about this.
    The outer steel frame was the strongest part of the building to enable more room for office space and so basically what happened is that the floors gave way under the weight of the collapse. Therefore it would be easier for the buildings to collapse inwards.
    I think this is like a religion to some people, if what they have come to believe has been wrong all along then the world will end, it will keep going Gough it matters not.

  173. Firstly

    When the twin towers were designed ,the impact of an airliner they took into account was that of a Boeing 707 lost in fog , landing at a nearby airport. The kinetic energy of the 911 aircraft was about 9 times that. They did not take subsequent fire into account.

  174. GoughLewis

    STATEMENT from James Del Valle & Firstly (see below my post): North and South WTC Towers where never designed to have planes at cruising speed, or carrying Jet fuel, crash into them. Slow landing impacts only calculated.

    REBUTTAL: S. Shyam Sunder, who is leading the investigation for the National Institute of Standards and Technology in the Commerce Department, said, earlier statements by Port Authority officials and outside engineers involved in designing the buildings suggested that the designers considered an accidental crash only by slower aircraft, moving at less than 200 miles per hour. The newly disclosed documents, from the 1960's, show that the Port Authority considered aircraft moving at 600 M.P.H., slightly faster and therefore more destructive than the ones that did hit the towers, Dr. Sunder said.

    The towers were built to withstand the impact of a Boeing 707 and 160 mile per hour winds, and nothing about the plane crashes or ensuing fires gave any indication of causing the kind of damage that would be necessary to trigger even a partial or progressive collapse, much less the shredding of the buildings into dust and fragments that could drop at free-fall speed.

    You are going to have to explain the ten characteristics of the collapses which all indicate that the buildings did not fall due to being struck by planes or the ensuing fires. Explain why the buildings fell suddenly, straight into their own footprint at free-fall speed, meeting virtually no resistance as they fell--a physical impossibility unless all vertical support was being progressively removed by explosives severing the core columns.

    The massive core columns--the most significant structural feature of the buildings, whose very existence is denied in the official 9/11 Commission Report--were severed into uniform 30 foot sections, just right for the 30-foot trucks used to remove them.

    Time for a re-examination of the 911 event, James and Firstly. The evidence of deep foul play goes beyond the "Official Conspiracy" sold by the Bush Administration.

  175. GoughLewis

    Well it’s official; Top Documentary Films is one of three top sites to me on the Internet. Vlatco has done an AMAZING job of compiling such a diverse combination of films on a WIDE variety of topics. I watch them all.

    I comment on the films I watch, but find myself commenting with more meaty comments on the 911 Event, primarily because it is just an obvious crime to me which has been bombarded with government approved misinformation rolled out in the mainstream media (like this film itself), or this guy James del Valle, who's motto is ignorance is bliss I guess haha (maybe he works for Fox News as an Intern or somethin LOL).

    I spent an hour or more reading over the last three months of comments today, and found it to be really cool. The tugs back and forth of all the divergent perspectives generated by this film and topic.

    The technique I used was to go back 10 pages or so, then you have to start at the bottom of the page, and read up, starting at the beginning of each new comment to get the flow progression. Interesting, pretty heated stuff haha

    Cheers all Comment'ers, including you James...


  176. James del Valle

    Just noticed your question there oddsr, my false flashbulb memory made me think it was Gough who asked that, I posted it on Loose change Final cut, just a couple of links you can find on youtube called ( 9/11 Debunked: "Molten Metal" Explained ) and ( 9/11 Debunked: WTC - No Pools of Molten Steel ) in the no pools of molten steel video have a look around 1m 30secs if you dont have time to watch it all.

  177. Thang Tran

    Charlie Sheen supports this theory.
    Charlie Sheen is crazy.
    A crazy person supports this theory.

  178. Thang Tran

    What government misinformation? Thats not part of the conspiracy.

  179. Thang Tran

    Are you an expert in demolitions, structural, civil or mechanic engineering?

    Do you have any evidence to refute the position taken by Popular Mechanics?

  180. Thang Tran

    If I was the government and I wanted to make it look like a plane hit the Pentagon, then I send a plane into the Pentagon rather then a missile. I am not saying thats the case. Its just not feasible to use a missile to make it look like its a plane when you have the resources to simply use a plane.

  181. GoughLewis

    Dick Cheney supports this theory.
    Dick Cheney is a pathological liar.
    A pathological liar supports this theory.

    LOL Thang, just, it's the circular logic thing... always worth a giggle!

  182. GoughLewis

    Hello Thang, and yes, there are many interesting Psychological games that can and have been played on the General Public to control public opinion.... NIST, CNN, FEMA Report, BBC NEWS, 911 COMMISSION, FOX News, etc rolling out the script. It's official!

    Also, lets not exclude other methods. Some objectives and methods of disinformation are quite sophisticated in dealing with people who question the "official" narrative, or influencing the general public not to question the "official" conspiracy theory. Here are a few of the main tools and strategies:

    a. The Straw Man Argument/Sensationalism - by promoting speculative, sensational, and false evidence, opponents can setup easily debunkable or dismissible points that can be used to lend credence to their position.

    b. Muddying the Waters - making it harder to discern the real evidence/researchers/websites from the fake ones. This approach both frustrates efforts at understanding the subject and makes the project less focused and more frustrating to be a part of.

    c. Bad Jacketing/Death by Association/Smear Campaign - by including the target idea/individual/movement along with another topic or personality that is disliked or discredited (UFOs, anti-semitism, nazis, etc.), the original subject can be smeared and dismissed. These smear campaigns can be extremely effective, as most people are very concerned with the image of a group or subject that they might get involved with.

    Much like you did here Thang, with your circular logic:
    Charlie Sheen supports this theory.
    Charlie Sheen is crazy.
    A crazy person supports this theory.

    d. Paranoia/Divide and Conquer - one of the most effective ways to destroy a group is to sow distrust among members. COINTELPRO is known to have supplied false information in order create suspicion between authentic progressive activists. Seemingly paradoxically, disinformation agents may actually promote discussion of disinformation/infiltration in order to increase paranoia. Such efforts may be targeted at creating suspicion around real and effective evidence/materials/activists.

    A lot of this stuff, Thang, is as old as Rome...

    And in regards to your question: "Do you have any evidence to refute the position taken by Popular Mechanics?"

    Certainly Thang. The Popular Mechanics book, Debunking 9/11 Myths, claims to have debunked all the major claims of the 911 Truth movement, but it fails to refute a single one of the concerns laid out by the large body of Physicists, Architects, Scientists, Engineers, Intelligence professionals, eye witnesses, and whistleblowers who laid out legitimate empirical evidence that contravenes the "Official" conspiracy theory rolled out by the Bush Administration.

    The more accurate title for the book would have been "Perpetuating 9/11 Myths". This film is based off this book.

    A more accurate description for this film “THE 911 CONSPIRACIES: FACT OR FICTION” would be as follows:

    “This scientifically bankrupt documentary analyzes the extreme, yet persistent, Alternative Theories that question the “Official Conspiracy Theory” of The Events of 911 as officially disseminated by the Bush Administration and reported dutifully by Fox, CNN, BBC, and the mainstream media. Experts in Engineering, Intelligence and the Military scrutinize Alternative Theory 9/11 Researchers, Scientists, Architects, Engineers, Intelligence, Demolition Experts, NYFD Officers, and countless eye witnesses who question the “Official Conspiracy Theory” laid out by the Bush Administration. Based in large part on a populist exposé by Popular Mechanics. Produced and approved by mainstream media’s NBC News Productions.”

    But no one would watch it, would they, with that description.... LOL



  183. James del Valle

    I'm surprised you gave me a mention Gough thanks very much very nice of you. Shows you are a really nice person but since you brought it up though the only criminals are the conspiracy theorists behind loose change etc, I'm serious, I think there is enough evidence for an indictment for fraud and possibly treason if they are found guilty of fraud which they would do in a sane world.

  184. GoughLewis

    I agree oddsr & Thang, none of it makes sense. But, we are meant to accept the fact that this "Plane" evaporated, 12 ton titanium Rolls Royce Jet engines and all, after hitting the Pentagon? But, they recovered the DNA from the passengers from this crash site.... but, no plane?

    Who rights the script? What nonsense.

    We have all been played....

  185. GoughLewis

    Haha, your logic is.... a fail, James. You are HIGHLIGHTING the preposterous nature of the whole official 911 story. Geeez it really is so stupid when you think about it.... We are dealing with a fraud. It is obvious. Really obvious!

  186. GoughLewis

    Your ignorance on this topic is breathtaking.... wow.

  187. GoughLewis

    It is psychologically difficult at times to deal with the hard truth at moments of revelation about the fraud of the "Official " story of 911 events, and I am not being sarcastic. Jesus in another guise is a visible victim of an Intelligence Operations to influence policy, opinion, misinformation, special agendas, to scientifically inflict policy propaganda on unsuspecting Nations and the people of the world.

    What else could explain this poor bastards opinion. Because You need not be a physicist or scientist to know prima facie that building 7 was a demolition and not a collapse. Anyone willing to even entertain the absurd notion that the first steel structure in architectural history to collapse from fire was building 7 of the World Trade Center is either a halfwit or a shill, or both.

    Look at how buildings collapse. They never uniformly collapse neatly on themselves in non-planned situations. Yet by some miracle, WTC 7, after all the day's tragedy neatly drops to the ground in orderly fashion. You have to accept that ridiculous premise to so arrogantly dismiss the people looking into 9/11.


  188. GoughLewis

    The evidence that 911 was an inside job is overwhelming. Most people who examine this evidence with an open mind find it convincing, or at least profoundly unsettling.

  189. Firstly

    According to Richard Gage the WTC towers were brought down by using thermite or thermate , which is basically a fast burning powder, to cut the inner steel columns silently so no one would hear it. At the same time high explosives were used to blast the same huge steel columns laterally to actually break the perimeter steel columns. For some ill-informed teenager to suggest something as silly as that would be one thing , but for someone who is supposed to know something about what he is talking about, it is a pretty grim comment on his grasp of joined up thinking. He also seems to have the idea that the top section of a building falling on the lower part would be like a cardboard box being dropped onto a bigger cardboard box, which can be shown to be not the case.

  190. GoughLewis

    Firstly, you have laid out your case why it was a gravitational collapse due to fire. There are a few things you will need to address here.

    The Twin Towers’ destruction exhibited all of the characteristics of destruction by explosives:

    1. Destruction proceeds through the path of greatest resistance at nearly free-fall acceleration
    2. Improbable symmetry of debris distribution
    3. Extremely rapid onset of destruction
    4. Over 100 first responders reported explosions and flashes
    5. Multi-ton steel sections ejected laterally
    6. Mid-air pulverization of 90,000 tons of concrete & metal decking
    7. Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic-like clouds
    8. 1200-foot-diameter debris field: no “pancaked” floors found
    9. Isolated explosive ejections 20–40 stories below demolition front
    10. Total building destruction: dismemberment of steel frame
    11. Several tons of molten metal found under all 3 high-rises
    12. Evidence of thermite incendiaries found by FEMA in steel samples
    13. Evidence of explosives found in dust samples

    WTC Building #7, a 47-story high-rise not hit by an airplane, exhibited all the characteristics of classic controlled demolition with explosives:

    1. Rapid onset of collapse
    2. Sounds of explosions at ground floor – a second before the building’s destruction
    3. Symmetrical “structural failure” – through the path of greatest resistance – at free-fall acceleration
    4. Imploded, collapsing completely, and landed in its own footprint
    5. Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic dust clouds
    6. Expert corroboration from the top European controlled demolition professional
    7. Foreknowledge of “collapse” by media, NYPD, FDNY
    In the the aftermath of WTC7’s destruction, strong evidence of demolition using incendary devices was discovered:
    8. FEMA finds rapid oxidation and intergranular melting on structural steel samples
    9. Several tons of molten metal reported by numerous highly qualified witnesses
    10. Chemical signature of the incendiary thermite found in solidified molten metal, and dust samples

    WTC7 exhibited none of the characteristics of destruction by fire:
    1. Slow onset with large visible deformations
    2. Asymmetrical collapse which follows the path of least resistance (laws of conservation of momentum would cause a falling, to the side most damaged by the fires)
    3. Evidence of fire temperatures capable of softening steel
    4. High-rise buildings with much larger, hotter, and longer lasting fires have never collapsed.

    Firstly, these are big problems with the official narrative. What this means is, all three buildings fell at free fall speed through the path of most resistance. This is impossible, with out additional energy moving the materials out of the way of the falling buildings like explosives.

    Ask yourself, "If I rammed my sports car into the back of a large 18 wheeler transport truck at a stop light, would you slow down or would you continue at the same speed through the Transport Truck. I hope you answer, "No, I think I would slow down, maybe even stop, right?" Yes, right.

    The building fell at the same speed as a Bowling ball dropped from the roof INTO THIN AIR.

    Niels Harrit, a professor of nano-chemistry at the University of Copenhagen, together with a team of International & U.S. physicists and engineers published a paper in the Open Chemical Physics Journal in 2009 that proves that nano-thermite was used to bring down the World Trade Center towers.

    In the U.S. only, unlike the rest of the world, this startling finding went unreported. The researchers finding in the dust from the World Trade Towers destruction found massive quantities of unreacted nano-thermite, which they tested. The researchers have enough of the unreacted nano-thermite left for other scientists to examine. Nano-thermite is a material that is not available to anyone except the U.S. military.

    It is in this disbelief of hard evidence that America is dissolving, and shows the psychological control government bodies or mainstream news outlets (Fox, CNN, BBC, etc.) have in creating the tides of opinion and consensus.

    False Flag operations are as old as Rome. Time for some critical thinking and discernment people.

    Houston, we have a problem... A REALLY BIG Problem.

  191. Firstly

    I actually didn't lay out any case , other than the specious one proposed by Richard Gage. Do you think what he says makes any sense?
    A building that is brought down by controlled demolition is not brought down by explosives , it is brought down by gravity. The explosives are used to fatally weaken the structural supports of the building and gravity brings it down. Supports that are fatally weakened by fire or dynamic forces will cause a similar outcome.
    You say the WTC towers collapsed faster than gravitational acceleration ? - even if you watch the videos of the collapses you can see the debris that is falling out and away from the towers is falling way ahead of the floors themselves. The debris is free-falling , the wave of destruction of the floors themselves is way behind. By the time initial debris from the height of the impact floors are hitting the ground, floors 30 to 40 storeys of the buildings are still intact. If you see debris falling past undamaged floors then the building is not collapsing at the rate of gravitational acceleration let alone faster than that.
    When the WTC buildings collapsed the collapse started at the site of the impact and the huge mass of the upper floors came down on the floors below. This has been used to demolish buildings, without using any explosives.
    You talk about the buildings falling straight down into their own footprint and then at the same time about mutli ton steel sections being hurled laterally and a 1200 wide debris field...that's a contradiction.
    Arranging for a sequenced cutting of core columns using explosives requires split second controllability that you do not get with a burning powder. It requires instantaneous detonation and that means noise. Explosives cutting every core column of the WTC towers into 30 foot lengths would be heard for miles around -they would be unmistakeable. That is even before you get to the prospect of blasting these columns laterally - how? , by attaching a large explosive device to each column or by placing a huge bomb in the centre of the building ,on each floor, to blast these columns outwards? How big and loud would those explosions have to be? There were no seismic spikes indicating any big explosions recorded on the instruments that the demolition company had in place nearby. And these would be columns that had already been cut (with a big tell-tale melted steel cut on each end of every one of them) and then being blasted horizontally, I can only presume, for fun.
    If the concrete was pulverised, does this mean every office floor of the building with explosive charges drilled into them every few square yards. Even more explosives, and I surely don't need to point out the problems of drilling holes in the floors of peoples offices.
    Quite apart from the huge amounts of explosives that would have to be placed in a working office building the other problem is the absolutely huge amounts of stupidity that would have to be involved for anyone to contemplate anything so unlikely to succeed and so likely to be discovered before, during or after the event. People don't sit down and come up with stupid plans. Anyone who knows anything about controlled demolition would not even contemplate a clandestine controlled demolition of buildings with all the preparation they would know would have to be involved ,and then with the prospect of then carrying it out in broad daylight in front any number of people watching and recording it on tv. Anyone who even contemplated going to those lengths would have to be absolutely convinced that the planes crashing into the buildings and the subsequent fires would not cause the buildings to collapse - even that just initiating the collapse would not cause it to continue. NIST don't seem to believe that's impossible. A lot of structural engineers were surprised that the towers held up for so long. Someone who thought the towers could not collapse would be carrying out something that they didn't think would be the consequence of the plane crashes. The terrorist attack was 'planes crash into the buildings'- that's the terrorist attack, but they decide to do something that could only have their own fingerprints all over it, that could only be the work of the Government. If you were going to commit a crime and wanted to blame it on someone else would you
    A. Plan it so that there would be little or no evidence to connect it to you or
    B. Get a large number of other people involved in adding hugely complex elements to the plan that only you could be responsible for, and that the person you intended to blame could not be responsible for.
    'Foreknowledge of collapse by the media, NYPD and FDNY'. The FDNY officers assessed WTC7 and they thought it was structurally unsound and might very well collapse. The fires in the building were unchecked and hours before it collapsed they decided it was likely to fall, so they created a cordon around it. About an hour before it did fall the pulled everyone even further back and waited for it to fall. What do you mean by the term 'foreknowledge'? If you are suggesting anything like the things I've seen insinuated about BBC newsreaders and reporters then I can only say 'Houston you do have a problem'.
    Someone said that the really worrying thing about 911 was not the collapse of the builidings, but the collapse of critical thinking in the american people.

  192. Thang Tran

    I did it as a joke and not really trying to carry any weight as a logical argument.

    I'll admit it is a logical fallacy but not solely because the basis of circular reasoning. The last thing I care about is circular reasoning when I am making an attack on character and mis-association.

  193. James del Valle

    Gough I really worry about your Health, you keep posting the same link as in the section below in which I am replying to. It's like a compulsion but I've very rarely seen you on other posts but you say you have been, I seen you on a moonlandings one but not noticed you before, what was your old alias, to be fair I'll tell you mine, I'm Jesus in another Guise and I'm hated intensely for destroying lies.


    no one believes the official 9/11 story so they get POPULAR MECHANICS to get it straight?!?!
    i actually watched this doc and found it a bit dated. the events that has transpired in the past few years makes me question this topic even more. i think they r bombing libya now. and to the lady in this doc who lost her borther. its nothing personal to you. just b/c terrorist attacks helps u sleep at night doesnt mean it helps all other victims (and those related to them) the same way. the flip side of it is that we all owe it to the victims to think critically and ask questions. i love (sarcasm) how they mentioned JFK for about 10 secs. i know that they are here to debunk 9/11 conspiracy theories but find it ironic that they mention the JFK assassination, which to this day is still shrouded in mystery ("magic bullet" and "grassy knoll",etc).

  195. Abjective

    Its amazing how the American peeps get pimped by the media owned by the jews. And how the shadowy government figures have a big say on how things are portrayed. The people that believe the goverment version has not proved its points, their arguments are weak, theres no credible evidence to back their claim.

    So far i have read most comments but theres no mention of Gondoleeza Rice & Peas, also Collin Powell (plank) these 2 puppets as well as the rest of the government muppets that are on show for the cameras are much to blame as the rest. Dick (head) Cheney gave orders to not stop the commercial plane even though the Transport Security knew as the plane was approaching Dick says no 'stand down' and guess what we have a crash.

    If you look closely at David Coburn, you can see the coke in his nose. He makes George Bush look clever. He has the weakest arguments to support even his grandmother. Coburn, Jim Meigs and the rest of them prunes are on bush's payroll.

    On the serious note. Steel s.m.p is at 2700 degrees celcius. Commercial jet fuel burns at max temp 1800 degrees celcius. Learnt that at primary school. So the fire itself is not possible to bring down buildings. Everyone agrees that thermite and thermate was used. Clear documented evidence proves that, but no one has yet explained how the f*"&* it got there. Its military grade stuff, you cant buy these at your local Wal Mart. Any theories how it got there?

    Theres clear evidence from the FDNY radio transmission & film that many of them heard secondary explosions throughout the buildings prior to the demolition. Its amazing how Larry Silverstein gave orders to 'pull it' to the fire commander in chief for building 7, i'm quite suprised he could'nt pull a cheeky smile at the end because he knew its a big payday. (around $4 billion) A signed and renewed contract of insurance a couple of weeks before 911. Hmmmm.

    It horrifies me that i have more cameras at my home than the Pentagon has got. Not a single decent film has been shown on what hit the Pentagon. Why are the FBI and government agencies not showing the consficated cctv footage from surrounding buildings? Is'nt that in the public interest. Theres no recovery of 2 titanium bladed jet engines. Titanium is one of the toughest metals, its impossible to evaporate. A Ci30 just apparntly hovers around the Pentagon very soon afterwards (on routine patrols). Just makes you think abit. It hit right on target, exactly where the massive alphabet H was marked.

    Its impossible to make clear phone calls at 40000-50000 feet at that time. Its so amazing on what voice technology can do. Its unusual that Put Option Shares were traded upto 30+ times the norm prior to the attacks. Did some people have prior knowledge of plot.

    The buildings to fall at absolute free fall at the same rate as dropping an apple from the 110th floor is very unusual. Its in the Guiness book of records that shows the first 3 buildings to collapse at absolute freefall due to fire. ever. Not really in the Guiness book. but statements true. Learner pilots to do those menouvers and hit precise targets.Hmmm.

    Bush said to a live audience, he saw the FIRST plane hit the towers on Tv, but didn't he also say he only heard when the second plane hit the tower from the government aide when he whispered in his ear and sat in a childrens classroom reading my Pet Goat upside down. Classic Illuminati ritual. Braappppp.

    I'm shocked that the figure that only 42% didn't believe the 911 Commmision report. At time of going to Press. Its got to of increased by now. Most Jews decided to have a day of work on 911

    I can go all day giving out facts and figures to prove that Its a 'False Flag operation'. 911 was just a decieving trigger for the actual goal. To cruasade foreign lands for their wealth, resources, military expansion and of course global domination for illuminati agenda. You just dont have a clue about the Bush's Carlye Group, The Skull & Bones membership, and the meetings they have at a secret and private location in California. (Bohemian Grove) but you have heard about the business dealings with Bin Ladens and the Arab money.

    America at least get some independant media going on mainstream. And transpanency, Its amazing how the public been duped for so long, at least the word is getting out there now, even though its a little to late to stop the crusades. Wars on Iraq, Afghanistan, Potentially Pakistan, Iran, North Korea are actually Crusades and not wars. All these wars mean dollar bills for military contractors and everyone associated with them.

  196. GoughLewis

    Great points Abjective.... But, the way you use the word Jew makes me queezy. I am not Jewish, but you use the word Jew in this kinda ...way? I don't know. Just kinda undermines your right on the money points you make. Just a thought to remember COINTELPRO uses the following technique as described below:

    Bad Jacketing/Death by Association/Smear Campaign - by including the target idea/individual/movement along with another topic or personality that is disliked or discredited (UFOs, anti-semitism, nazis, etc.), the original subject can be smeared and dismissed.

  197. James del Valle

    Sounds like you are taking this from a Muslim viewpoint Abjective saying these wars are crusades when they are just over reactions to terrorist activity, all your points have an explanation its just you prefer your version. If you are wrong then all you need to do is take a look at what the Taleban are trying to do in afghanistan, pakistan and beyond. Yes they have plans for world domination as laughable as it sounds. Terribly bias Journalism Abjective.

  198. James del Valle

    who was crying for weeks asking for western intervention, you sound like a Radical Muslim coming out with that statement, a few weeks before the Muslims were saying that the west would be held responsible if they didnt intervene, now do you see a pattern here.

  199. James del Valle

    Gough this proves you are not bias and respect to you, I know you are a good guy but some people as you rightly pointed out have an agenda whether it be to promote something or to comdemn a group or simply want to make a profit i.e. the conspiracy creators but you are not bias just a bit blinkered in your thoughts but then you could say the same about me but we are both rational and have that in common.

  200. over the edge

    maybe go back to primary school because those temperatures are wrong. if you would have said Fahrenheit instead of Celsius i would have accepted them as close enough. next the supports didn't have to melt only lose enough strength due to heat to no longer be able to hold up the weight (best estimates are 60-90 % strength loss)
    - can i see clear documented proof of thermite
    -many things can cause "secondary explosions" a few examples are debris falling, electrical fires, office chemicals, back-drafts ...
    -show me where firefighters or demolition experts use pull it as a term for controlled demolition. also can you show me a controlled demolition that falls from the top down like the trade canters?
    -they did find parts of the engines
    -it is the law not to release confiscated films until all prosecution is over
    -it is unlikely but not impossible to make clear cell calls from the air and the likelihood of success increases with reduction in height. can you show me the heights in comparison to when the calls were made.also most call were made from air phones which work quite well
    -lastly the buildings don't fall at free fall speed it is there for anyone to see just watch the collapses and you will see the debris that falls away from the buildings falling faster.

  201. GoughLewis

    @ over the edge, I encourage you to read my Post below in response to FIRSTLY below. This covers in detail your questions that you have laid out in you post, as well as HARD evidence in links for you to follow up on.

    Abjective makes some good points, but is sloppy with it. Also, with Abjectives style, inevitably some idiot will pull in some religious or racial issue with Abjective's use of loaded language....and the REAL issue will get lost in the pulverized dust of the Pyroclastic flows of 911.

  202. Firstly


  203. GoughLewis

    Psychologists tell us that many people's view of the government is a projection of their view of their parents. In other words, whatever they believe about their parents, they also believe about the government. The personal is the political in more ways than one.

    Try to step into the shoes of the average American. He or she assumes that the government wants to protect its citizens, just as his or her parents tried to protect their family (or at least he or she believed they did). So for this average American, believing that the government could do something cruel would be extremely difficult.

    Just a thought on mental resistance to information regarding the dark event of September 11th, 2001.

  204. GoughLewis

    Hello James, thanks for the kind words. I would earnestly like you to look at the links I posted. We agree that false information, racial or religious diversions, or direct propaganda operations are all counter to the truth. Lets be on the right side of history.

  205. Jiri Teunis

    falling faster?!!! lmao, as in projected by an explosion?? you just repeat like all the other sheep what the mass media tell you, trying to think for yourself cant be a proper advice to you cos you already think you are. good luck in your voluntary slavery.

  206. over the edge

    @Jiri Teunis
    if an "explosion" would have given the debris vertical momentum it would have gone straight down (into the floor below). if it was blown horizontally then that wouldn't account for it falling faster. instead of attempting insults maybe try posting some evidence for your side

  207. GoughLewis

    @over the edge, hello there. There is a tremendous amount of hard evidence pointing to obvious demolition, including un-reacted Nano-Thermite militarized explosives found in the dust... in the tons.

    See post on second page of comments for hard evidence and links.

    All the best,


  208. over the edge

    @gough lewis
    i am familiar with Niels Harrit and his so called evidence he collected his samples up to six years after the attack a quote from his study "produced the expected peaks for Fe, Si, Al, O, and C. Other peaks included calcium, sul-fur, zinc, chromium and potassium. The occurrence of these elements could be attributed to surface contamination due to the fact that the analysis was performed on the as-collected surface of the red layer. The large Ca and S peaks may be due to contamination with gypsum from the pulverized wall-
    board material in the buildings." he even admits his samples were contaminated and therefore not proof of anything. can you show me these "tons " of thermite found.

  209. oddsrhuge

    If you are going to cite specific events from 911. Please include a source, other than your own brain for the "explanations".

    No the buildings DID not fall at free fall speed, just close to it.

    Given that no other protected steel framed building in history (before or since) has EVER fallen due to fire, is suspicious enough. Combine pyroclastic dust flows, which up until, nine one one, never happened outside of volcanoes or planned explosions and you have a mathematical improbability.

    I except that extreme heat softens steel and can take away a lot of it's structural strength, however we are talking about a few floors at the top of a tremendously well built structure (with a lot of redundant substructures to prevent the very event that occurred)
    Any collapse would have happened in a random manner, NOT in a symmetrical global failure of all floors to the point of pulverization.

    Take a look at the top of Tower 2 as it collapses.

    The top section starts to fall away, meaning that by the law of "conservation of momentum", it should have crashed to the earth in basically a solid form (allowing for anything that it may have hit on it's way down). Instead it pulverizes in mid air. This is, a physics impossibility.

    And once again, I defy yet another "expert" to explain pools of molten steel under all 3 buildings for months after the event.

    Was there a secret government smelting plant under NY? Or do the laws of physics not work there?

  210. over the edge

    what did i get wrong and i will show you proof and sources
    next you say"Given that no other protected steel framed building in history (before or since) has EVER fallen due to fire" ok how about the"ESP plant in the Enigma Business Park, near Malvern" which appeared in time magazine sept 11 2006. there are other examples but remember the towers didn't fail solely because of fire a very large plane going at 500 mph hit them as well. a few floors the planes hit the 95th and 81st floors. each building was 110 stories so 15 and 29 floors were the "few floors" added weight to the next floor down i would assume outside of what was designed for as i showed in another post the the collection of the dust tring to confirm explosives in dust were contaminated and that fact was admitted to by the author of the study. there are many types of "steel" in buildings without an analysis of the molten pools no conclusion can be made. show me proof it was steel and not copper wire or aluminum or slag that were all present in the towers and the heat of the fires could have melted them easily. also i have seen the pictures of the excavators picking up red hot metal but no pics of moten steel could you provide me with one.

  211. oddsrhuge

    Enigma Business Park (chuckle) You're kidding right? Really this is your example of a similar event???? Maybe look at the facts around that fire. First of all , This building IS NOT a "Protected Steel Framed Structure", and secondly most of the vertical steel still stood after the fire. The steel roof beams were buckled and failed, and I already conceded that fire could weaken steel.

    so...I am left with HUH????

    And I couldn't leave this one alone either....

    "there are other examples but remember the towers didn't fail solely because of fire a very large plane going at 500 mph hit them as well."

    Cite another example please.

    And once again these buildings (WTC I & II) were specifically designed to withstand a plane hit. Please don't now come back with the "yeah, but only for a 707", It's been done to death.

    And you know what?

    If you haven't seen the pictures....I am not going to look them up for you. Do it yourself! There are many sites showing more than one picture and there are archived mainstream media reports ALL OVER the internet. There are also firefighters who were never asked to testify at an inquest but who have described it in great detail.

    And until I see a real response that addresses the evidence (not the 911 Commission report). I am done with you.

    In fact I am now betting that you are James DeValle in another guise.

  212. oddsrhuge

    This is my last post on this video. if you ignore the date 9, September 2001. You have:

    Mohamed Atta a verified CIA asset, who was a "devout muslim" that did cocaine drank like a fish and enjoyed lap dancers

    19 Terrorists identified within 24 hours of the event (but prior to this no one in the US intelligence service had a clue how it could happen)

    Up to 11 of these "terrorists" are alive and were the victims of identity theft, except for the one who had died a year before 911.

    OBL was in a US Naval hospital only a month before the event. (he was on the FBI "Most Wanted List" at this point but for some reason the CIA operative that visited him, didn't arrest him)

    A passport that survived the conflagration that torched it's owner and the plane that he was flying, as well as causing the total destruction of a building.


    But yeah, it happened the way they told us.

    And even though most of the terrorists "identified" were from Saudi Arabia. The US decided to attack Afganistan and Iraq. (but what does that matter? Muslims are ALL terrorists, right?) There is also easily verifiable evidence that the plans for these 2 invasions were not already planned but already funded, long before a plane flew unhindered into the most protected airspace in the world.

  213. over the edge

    yea the buildings were built to withstand a 707 hitting it but at landing speed and with low fuel "The WTC towers were the first structures outside of the military and the nuclear industries whose design considered the impact of a jet airliner, the Boeing 707. It was assumed in the 1960s design analysis for the WTC towers that an aircraft, lost in fog and seeking to land at a nearby airport, like the B-25 Mitchell bomber that struck the Empire State Building on July 28, 1945, might strike a WTC tower while low on fuel and at landing speeds." fema 911 report. second you mention molten steel and when i ask you for pics you say look them up yourself. well i couldn't find any and that response seems weird considering you said to me "If you are going to cite specific events from 911. Please include a source, other than your own brain for the "explanations".
    " what comes around goes around you ask me for source then refuse to give any yourself. next no i am not "James DeValle in another guise." . lastly there might be some questions that the government hasn't answered and they could have done a much better job of sharing the info they do have. asking questions and holding government accountable is a good thing, but stating claims already disproved doesn't help your claims.

  214. GoughLewis

    You really need to do some research.

    Twin Towers' Designers Anticipated Jet Impacts Like September 11th. Structural engineers who designed the Twin Towers carried out studies in the mid-1960s to determine how the buildings would fare if hit by large jetliners. In all cases the studies concluded that the Towers would survive the impacts and fires caused by the jetliners.

    Even multiple airplane strikes on the same building.

    S. Shyam Sunder, who is leading the investigation for the National Institute of Standards and Technology in the Commerce Department, said, earlier statements by Port Authority officials and outside engineers involved in designing the buildings suggested that the designers considered an accidental crash only by slower aircraft, moving at less than 200 miles per hour. The newly disclosed documents, from the 1960's, show that the Port Authority considered aircraft moving at 600 M.P.H., slightly faster and therefore more destructive than the ones that did hit the towers, Dr. Sunder said.

    The Boeing 767-200s used on 9/11/01 were only slightly larger than 707s and DC 8s, the types of jetliners whose impacts the World Trade Center's designers anticipated. Flight 11 and Flight 175 were Boeing 767-200s. Although a 767-200 has a slightly wider body than a 707, the two models are very similar in overall size, weight and fuel capacity.

    The towers were built to withstand the impact of a Boeing 707 and 160 mile per hour winds, and nothing about the plane crashes or ensuing fires gave any indication of causing the kind of damage that would be necessary to trigger even a partial or progressive collapse, much less the shredding of the buildings into dust and fragments that could drop at free-fall speed.

    - S. Shyam Sunder. NIST.

  215. Guest

    Most the fuel on those jets exploded outside the building on impact. Poof!

  216. Guest

    A similar fire happened in Spain in a high rise (not as big as the WTC) from a plane hitting it. It did not fall at all. The worst that ever happened to a high rise was a shell was left of some floors, etc.

    Most the jet fuel as I stated earlier exploded outside the building on impact. Just look at the tapes of the jet hitting the WTC. The jet is so small compared to the building.

    I am still haunted by the woman standing on a beam of the blown out building waiting for rescue. Her family deserves the truth. Those who did it punished or it will happen again.

    Where are the "independent investigations of 911" Obama? Families and citizens have many questions yet unanswered.

  217. Guest

    Did they forget about the lies about Vietnam? That was our own government who lied to us.

  218. Jeremy Shepherd

    what an unprofessional conspiracy "debunk". I can't finish watching this.

  219. James del Valle

    everyone says this is an inside job but who would have the motivation to do it, you cant say it was the US Government to invade Iraq because they could have did that anyway. Any suggestions............?

  220. GoughLewis

    The President Of The United States

    " The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it. Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment. That I do not intend to permit to the extent that it’s in my control. And no official of my Administration, whether his rank is high or low, civilian or military, should interpret my words here tonight as an excuse to censor the news, to stifle dissent, to cover up our mistakes or to withhold from the press and the public the facts they deserve to know."

    John F. Kennedy

  221. Danny Krammes

    Wait, did he just say Galileo was locked up for purposing the Earth was round when everyone else was saying it was flat? Sorry guy, people knew the earth was round for hundreds of years prior to that happening. DERRRRR

  222. qwony

    Do you view life as some sort of crazy cartoon? Where people demolition buildings by shooting them high in the sky? Maybe, instead of asking for evidence (which you are getting) try watching a couple videos on controlled demolition WTC 1, WTC 2, WTC 7, then come back and have this argument.

  223. Amy

    This is the most ridiculous example of propaganda that I have seen thus far. It aims to discredit conspiracy theorists by making broad generalizations like "all conspiracy theorists think they know what happened and ignore any evidence that contradicts their theories", and then their "expert" responds to contradictory evidence with a tone of voice that suggests anyone questioning the official report is silly and stupid. And the "proof" used to back it up remains questionable.
    One of their experts claimed that "The US Government is incapable of keeping a secret." Really? Please excuse me while I laugh hysterically at that statement.
    I could go on for paragraphs, but I will stop at the point where they bring out a woman who lost a loved one on 9/11and she claims that questioning the official report is dishonorable and disrespectful to those that died. Oh, so if I question the official report, not only am I a stupid, closed-minded, foil hat conspiracy theorist--I am also a heartless wretch with no respect for the dead? Whoever wrote this drivel is a master of spin and manipulation.
    I don't claim to have all the answers, but this documentary is not worth watching if you are reasonably intelligent.

  224. James del Valle

    lets get something straight, conspiracy theories like loose change use fabricated evidence so how can they be the truth, there is some money to be made from the conspiracy game, if you want to challenge me for proof ask away but you will look like a fool so choose your words carefully.

  225. Filipe Vilaça

    Useless propaganda for the herd ;)))))

  226. 0zyxcba1

    Sir Isaac Newton's evidence: F=ma
    Your evidence?

  227. Aarroonn Fleszar


    This is the story the federal government is covering up. This is a code I cracked online 6 months before the presidential election. When I reported it to the FBI, my entire family’s lives, my life, and everyone I care about, has been destroyed. I’ve been told “I can’t know what I know, who am I to question the federal government,” and that I “embarrassed the professionals who do this stuff for a living.” Are these the same professionals that had every thing under control on the morning of 9/11?

    My name is Aaron M Fleszar and back in 2006 I set out to find a way to make money online and ended up learning a lot more than I bargained for by cracking a code no one ever knew existed.

    Scam artists (Al-Qaeda) have cornered the market on affiliate marketing education. Their sites use aliases, bogus whois info, and registrations in different states and countries. What are they hiding?

    After many years researching, a link appeared on Armand Morin’s blog to Al-Qaeda. A number of these con artist's faces matched up with the FBI’s MOST WANTED TERRORISTS.

    Here are wanted terrorists and their online aliases. Some are wanted for U.S. embassy bombings in Kenya & Indonesia. Do these two places ring any bells?

    Search Google Images for;
    Mark Joyner Simpleology-Seif Al Adel (Sarah Palin’s book Palinology)
    John Ferrero-Ramadan Shallah
    Yaro Starak-Umar Patek
    Armand Morin-Noordin M Top (said to have been killed in Indonesia and now removed from the FBI’s most wanted list)
    Michael Filsaime-Ali Sayyid Muhamed Mustafa al-Bakri (Die Hard 4 “Fire Sale” The cyber attack on our infrastructure)
    Dr. Mani Sivasubramanian-Ammar Mansour Bouslim
    Carl Galletti-Ahmed Garbaya, Samir Salwwan
    Ted Ciuba-Abdul Rahman Yasin

    Many get rich quick scams serve as product placement for new cutting edge internet technologies, and logos, some sold through Clickbank. The people appearing in testimonials are part of the expansion of this organization and are often pitching other high priced products and services. They all link to one another through their marketing strategies and ability to optimize in search rankings.

    Between the aliases the use, and the way in which they speak about things, everything they do has double meaning. Their faces in Google image search is similar to the picture book of symbols mentioned in The Da Vinci Code movie. Here is a code of look a likes pitching all sorts of stuff who are interconnected;

    Selling a program on making millions online is Professor James Bradley who looks like the Pentagon bomber Bill Ayers.

    Jay Conrad Levinson is behind a number of “guerilla” marketing and advertising books. He looks like George Soros, who’s last name is a (palin)drome. Soros has been credited for collapsing a number of nation’s currencies. George Soros has been quoted several times regarding his views on a New World Order.

    The Super Affiliate Handbook is sold by someone who looks like Jill Biden, her name is Rosalind Gardner. Some appear to represent people, more in how they pose, rather then a direct look alike. Stephen Pierce appears to represent radical Van Jones, Brett McFall-Austan Goolsbee, John Childers-Andy Stern, and Jay Abraham as Ayman al-Zawahri, just to name a few.

    Problem with your Google Adwords PPC ads and can’t get a straight answer? You could try Yanik Silver who looks a lot like Sergei Brin, but he probably won’t know. He sells 33 Days to Online Profits (prophets.) Why not try Perry Marshall, who looks like Obama’s priest Reverend Pfleger? He sells The Definitive Guide To Google Adwords, infringing upon Google’s trademark.

    Many more can be found at Lorrie Morgan Ferrero’s Red-Hot-Copy blog such as; 72 Virgin Records Richard Branson, & White House Party Crashers the Salahi’s with Valerie Jarrett’s daughter.

    The Rich Jerk sent out emails promoting Stompernet in Atlanta Georgia. The staff included Brad Fallon, an airline pilot, and Eben Pagan selling a seminar "Get Altitude". 3 days after reporting this code to the FBI, Delta in Atlanta canceled a large number of flights due to “safety reasons.” In the Youtube videos related to the Rich Jerk, it appears that Mark Cuban is the Rich Jerk. He’s the billionaire who owns the Dallas Maverick’s basketball team. Think O'bomber or Barrac-uda Palin would play for him? Another guy seen on Youtube claiming to be Robert Johnson Rich Jerk, is Tony Rezko.

    Obama announced his run for office on Oprah Winfrey’s show. Have you ever noticed that Oprah’s friend Gayle King looks like Whitney Houston? Think that her name could be a code, Whit_ney White-Hous_ton House?

    It appears the internet marketing experts controlled the comments, the headlines, and the finance of the last election online with the highest ranking site in Google search, Youtube.

    In my strongest opinion this is the last piece of the puzzle, Osama Bin Laden is also a spokesperson, and a look-a-like. Osama represents Obama/Biden (Bi)n La(den.)

  228. Aarroonn Fleszar

    The Death of Osama Bin Laden and the Obama Illuminati Conspiracy

    My name is Aaron M Fleszar, and for the last several weeks I’ve tried getting people to read and understand some of what I’ve written online. For most, its way too complicated. On a number of blogs I made the mistake of trying to optimize for keyword phrases, which took away from the information I was revealing. There should be more than enough information online now for people to connect the dots. It’s important to get everyone’s attention by telling them about sites like this one.

    The media is being heavily controlled in an effort to stop the story spreading about Obama/Osama and the New World Order. This is why I think the death of OBL story was released, to take attention way. I cracked Al-Qaeda’s code over 3 years ago. It was about 6 months before the presidential election. This is part of the reason why I know that everything regarding Sarah Palin is completely fabricated. There’s a reason why her family has such odd names. There’s also a reason why on her TV show it appeared that everything they did in Alaska was for the first time. Wouldn’t the group who wanted to elect Obama, be more likely to pull it off if they also decided who his opponent, or opponents, would be? Sarah Palin generated a lot of chatter for the feds to analyze. People online are already trying to discredit what I’m claiming about her. How many people do you know who’ve visited Alaska in the last decade? And out of those all those who have, how many spent time at the Governor’s office?

    If you search who I am online and read about what I’ve written, you should also know that the Feds sorted out all of this before the election. Think if my theory is accurate Bush would hand over the presidency to his nemesis? Did you notice that immediately after Obama won the election, he completely disappeared for 2 weeks? When Obama reappeared and sat next to “senator” McCain for a photo shoot, did you notice how happy and refreshed McCain was? Did you notice how Obama had that sleep deprivation, cooperating with authorities, look on his face?

    I also know that this story is considered embarrassing to intelligence agencies and the FBI who have been after Al-Qaeda for years. They claim that this information is a matter of National Security. Misusing the words national security all the time is a threat to our nation’s security. Avoiding the court systems, warrants, judges, trashing the constitution, and operating in an above-the-law capacity, is a threat to national security. Using the words national security, in exchange for the words job security, is a threat to national security. Turning people who are part of this organization in an effort to catch bigger fish, and catching bigger fish only to have unelected officials silence and manipulate elected officials, is a threat to national security. The American people want their freedoms and democracy back. Together we can restore the constitution before unelected officials begin using it as toilet paper.

    The feds have recruited journalists, editors, and moderators, in order to control the media and suppress this story. Forums, blogs, and major media comment sections are being manipulated, altered, and deleted. Most comments on these sites are nothing more than misdirection. Anyone speaking negative about the administration, or poking holes in the Death of Osama Bin Laden story, are being immediately discredited, some by the FEDS and others by Al-Qaeda. It also appears Al-Qaeda is copying my information into forums. Never LOG INTO a forum regarding the Illuminati or New World Order, they’ll hack your computer. Tell everyone about this site.

    Commenting at major news sites isn’t spamming unless you’re selling something. Here are the best ways to get attention to this story.

    First, email and text everyone you know and tell them about this website. It’s quick, easy, and simple.

    Next, post questions at the biggest major media sites to all political stories. Ask if the person is part of the New World Order Conspiracy, or use Obama Osama Illuminati conspiracy. Comment on stories regarding Obama as well, he’s in the news an awful lot. Reply to the most viewed and most replied comments. When you see others drawing attention to this story or this site, support them online. You can always link or send someone a link to this site as well. This is America. Don’t ever be scared for a minute to speak out. We control the government, not the other way around.

    Simply reading this story is meaningless, unless you spread this information. Even if you don’t understand it all, if everyone begins to share it, actual journalists, maybe from outside the United States, will pick up on it and be able to expose it without being limited to a short little blog post. Spread the news today and help us take back our democracy, the constitution, and our freedom of speech.

    Thank you,
    Aaron Fleszar

  229. Aarroonn Fleszar

    The Death of Osama Bin Laden and the New World Order Conspiracy

    My name is Aaron Fleszar and I’d like to expose, with your help, the largest conspiracy in world history. Most people don’t believe in conspiracies or conspiracy theories, I know because I was one of them. The thing about a conspiracy is it cannot be proven, if it could, it wouldn’t be a conspiracy. I will try and make this as simple as possible so that you can follow my logic and likely reach the same conclusions.

    What do we know about Osama Bin Laden that we haven’t been told by the media? We know that he is a spokesperson for Al-Qaeda. Once or twice a year, this guy appears in video, pointing his finger, from a tape that mysteriously arrives at the Al-Jazeera network. If Osama Bin Laden is only spokesperson, and not a mastermind, who makes up the organization behind him?

    Even a president is only a spokesperson. A president surrounds himself with an administration that advises him. There is always a force behind a president with an agenda. Sometimes that agenda is known, sometimes it’s not.

    Are we being mislead by Osama Bin Laden and the organization behind him? Could Osama be the spokesperson for a New World Order, the richest people in the world who would like to take over the government? Could Osama be a distraction, and a catalyst, for starting an endless war on terror, increasing defense department spending, lining the pockets of defense contractors, and driving up the price of oil?

    Could the attacks on 9/11 be attacks against capitalism? Is Al-Qaeda or New World Order’s goal to destroy capitalism? Would destroying capitalism allow the richest people in the world a chance to implement socialism, get wealthier by collapsing the dollar, and allow them to institute a one world currency, only to enslave the rest of the world to their New World Order government?

    Everyone knows that something happened on 9/11 that is being covered up, but what is it? Is it that planes didn’t collapse 2 buildings which fell with precision as if they were being brought down by a controlled demolition? Is it that no one ever talks about the third building which collapsed that never got hit by an airplane? Were the planes nothing more than misdirection, or an illusion, created by Al-Qaeda/New World Order, also known as “the Illuminati?”

    Written across thousands of get rich quick scams online there is a code. Al-Qaeda or NWO appears to be using the internet to take over all ecommerce and media. Several people making up this code are look a likes for people associated with the current administration, in addition to media moguls, and CEO’s.

    Several of the FBI’s Most Wanted Terrorists make up this code online. They are wanted for US embassy bombings in Kenya, Obama’s family’s birthplace, and Indonesia, a place where Obama spent many years as a child.

    What’s interesting about the Al-Qaeda organization online, that literally own the internet, is that this same group of marketing experts ran the last election on Youtube. Could the organization behind Osama Bin Laden be the New World Order Illuminati? Could the organization behind the election of Obama, be the same group? Could Osama be the look a like to represent Obama, and Biden, Bi(nla)den?

    It’s not a conspiracy when it’s taking place right in front of you. There is just an overwhelming amount of misinformation to try and prevent you from connecting the dots. Keep in mind that the Illuminati, or New World Order, are masters at illusion.

    It’s important for the future of America that you tell others immediately about this website. Email and text everyone you know and tell them to read this website. When enough people start demanding honest answers, we will finally learn the truth to what really happened on 9/11.

    Thank you for reading this,
    Aaron M Fleszar

  230. GoughLewis

    Well this is all pretty slick, full of persuasive rhetoric, and well kind of smells like a sweet Honey Pot Aaron...

    Suggestion: Read Professor Carroll Quigley's work. One distinctive feature of Quigley’s historical writings was his assertion that secret societies have played a significant role in recent world history.

    Start with his Book: Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in Our Time. You will get those answers you are looking for.

    I'm just relieved you left the UFO's and Elvis sightings out of your Analysis of 911 and the march toward, as "The Counsel on Foreign Relations" warmly calls "Global Governance". Other names for this is Global Regime, or One World Order, or One World Government. This has been going on for a very long time.

    Osama Bin Laden is just a "BoogyMan," to scare you. The monster under the bed. Been dead for years. One word...PSYOP.

    Last Suggestion for you to look up Aaron: "Round Table Group"

    Good Luck, and lay off the daydreaming a little. Plenty of hard facts, no real need to "speculate".


  231. GoughLewis

    Hey James, up to peddling your some old wares again I see. You know James, I think I check in from time to time ("haunting") just to see what new 911 debunking nonsense or misinformation might get posted. Just sooo easy debunking the debunkers -- All you need is the scientific facts, common sense, a dash of healthy skepticism, cognisant of geo-politics helps, understanding of the laws of physics and nature and... presto!

    911 was a False Flag / Stand Down Operation. Go read some history, false flag operations are as old as Rome.

  232. Jay

    Seems as though James Del Valle's profile is non existant. Hmm

  233. Jay

    Go Girl

  234. Guest

    Thank you for your many posts. You allowed me to understand the situation in better light.

  235. oklima

    Even a 5 year old child can see this ridiculous documentary for the crap that it is...

  236. Jardo .

    This documentary only attempts to discredit people that question the government rather than answering the questions 50% of this country has asked. Love how they dont provide a "lower third" for the woman and man who had children die on 9/11. This documentary is a mixture of some real people but mostly actors that provide nothing but personal opinions about "crazy" conspiracy theorists. This is pure Propaganda for retards.

  237. James del Valle

    Do you want to know a very plausible fact, this film was created by conspiracy theorists to ensure that no one believes the official version of events, there is no presentation of believable facts or evidence presented which would discredit the conspiracy theorists by showing the truth that the evidence was faked, how any professional body could have overlooked these proofs and there is many is beyond me. Its a farcical movie and popular mechanics are either cowboys or deliberately sabotaging the US government in regards to 9/11 .

  238. who_me_yeah_you

    Just one question, Why has none of these engineers etc not been called to testify in a proper investigation on the the incident. Trial by media and the truthers are way ahead. Not because they have the answers but because they have the unanswered questions.

  239. Timothy Kriz

    I don't really see them offering proof. They just say that their report is right and the conspiracy is wrong. They offer no visual scientific proof. I don't see how they disproved the demolition theory, or the fact that the fire couldn't have weekend steel. They just say, with words why they are right. I have seen too much visual, factual scientific proof. They say that the fires didn't get hot enough to melt steel, just weaken it. Where did the melted steel come from then that was found in the rubble. What about the angular cuts in the 4ft. steel beams that imply a demolition.

  240. GoughLewis

    Hey James,

    Haha, you are right about one thing (and this is rare that we agree on anything) this documentary's counter argument to the Empirical Scientific Data pointing to an obvious False Flag / Stand down operation is laughable.

    Best of all, this documentary believes that 90,000 tons of steel, enough to build an aircraft carrier, nearly half of that in 47 continuous vertical core box columns as wide as six feet, gets soft or mushy from a relative thimble full of kerosene, or .05 percent of the steel by weight, and burning office furniture. This combined with a impacts by planes, which weighed a tiny fraction of one percent of the buildings, caused them to fall straight down at the speed of a bowling ball dropped from the same height (free-fall speed through air.) This is like trying to melt a crowbar with rolled up newspapers soaked in lighter fluid, after shooting it with a .22 rifle. Hahaha LMFAO!

  241. Bobby

    Absolute unsubstantiated shit. 77 minutes of waste, propaganda nonsense.

  242. Greg

    What an absolute crock of s***. This whole documentary is based around a 'study' that the editorial team Popluar Mechanics conducted!? WTF!? I loved how the Editor and Deputy Editor somehow are experts on Aeronautics and National Security. And the CIA agent saying that no-one in the government can keep secrets, LMAO! Hello, Area 51, CIA black ops...and he was in the CIA, yes well I wonder why he's no longer in the CIA. I'm not even American, and I'm offended that some people think the conspiracy theorists are disrespecting those who lost their lives!? Uh, I think you'll find they respect them enough to say the story we're being fed is crap, we want the truth.

  243. Greg_Mc

    After reading the comments about this doc it looks like one I will not bother to watch it (I saw a doc a few years ago done by popular mechanics that was crap, maybe this is the same one). Reading Aaroonn Fleszars posts was probably more entertaining than the doc anyway, you are a unique dude Aaroonn but please try to remember to take your meds before you come online.

  244. Greg_Mc

    I keep trying to leave comments on various pages (such as this one) then when I click the post button it says the comment has to be ok'd by the administrator or something like and my comments (which are not rude or written to cause trouble) never seem to show up. I see people posting what some people may consider harsh comments and they get on here so I am lost as to why my comments dont get posted.

  245. Greg_Mc

    and oddly my last comment which adds nothing to the conversation about the doc gets posted. Maybe it is just a glitch, who knows

  246. Guest

    sometimes sh*t will stop a comment in it's track...until the letters are replace by little arrows. Any swear words actually!

  247. His Forever

    I used one tonight, purposely, but I put a hypen in it. That works!

  248. Greg_Mc

    Thanks for the help.

    My original post (below) finally showed up, I guess sometimes it just takes some time to get approved

  249. mahonhouse

    oh I was the guy in the plane above dc that day.
    All I meant by new pearl Harbor was a cocktail.
    you know casual talk got in the minutes of the meeting,well it didnt mean any thing nope nothing at know why building 7 crumbled well,it was very know and all the people running that day caused vibrations see and some muslims had set off fire crackers right before it happened yeah.

  250. oklima

    This `documentary' is a pile of festering BULLSHIT

  251. heywho

    all the so called "experts" rebutting 9/11 theories in this show don't offer much in terms of evidence besides "nope, didn't happen that way"

    "Loose Change" the film they are targeting to "debunk" had many experts, eye witness testimonies and more detailed explanations. IMO Loose Change makes a far more compelling and detailed argument than the History Channel has provided. This film --to me-- comes across as Corporate Media trying to marginalize and discredit individuals who want in actual investigation into what happened on 9/11

  252. AlfBeta

    good on you James, I don't agree or disagree, (havent seen film, dont have unlimited bandwidth, must make choices) but I do appreciate logical paths being cleared.

  253. Achems_Razor

    If this doc has anything to do with the complete erroneous info that I read in Popular Mechanics some years back, then forget it. All Popular Mechanics were doing is sucking up to the Empire to keep their jobs.

  254. AlfBeta

    I wish his name wasn't so

  255. AlfBeta

    Yes that's Standard Operating Procedure, same as saying that opposition to your government terrorizing the innocent and turning their footpaths into open sewers,etc., is being disloyal to our brave loyal patriotic young people fed into the furnace. Which is a dishonourable rulership cynically getting double use out of these young people's situation.

  256. john jones

    OK in the 1st 5 minutes and with the very first "debunking" experts obvious attempt to degrade the intelligence and validity of anyone who questions the "official" story by referencing JFK conspiracy he himself shows who should have their head checked. (I refer to the fact he states the JFK assassination has shown no conspiracy and yet conspiracy talk persists. Dumb ass check the official record! In 1978 the senate select sub comity concluded after scientific analysis of and further investigation the evidence shows that conspiracy does indeed exist and in fact a 4th shot is fired and from the direction of the GRASSY KNOLL.) FYI they also concluded that concerning the MLK assassination conspiracy exists.

  257. Variant1

    I last...someone is going to answer all the glaring irregularities associated with 9/11...and I can trust the status quo once more!

    Like HELL! As soon as the first analysis started and they said an 1100 degree fire would reduce the steels structural integrity by 50%....ergo it did not have to melt it (Which with that fire was IMPOSSIBLE) I was listening.

    Then when they casually failed to make reference to the LAKE of molten steel that was still glowing red hot SIX WEEKS later (Which is very well documented) I decided that Popular mechanics were merely like all the other so called "Free" press.

    "There is no such thing, at this stage of the world’s history in America, as an independent press. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dare write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print. I am paid weekly for keeping my honest opinions out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for similar things, and any of you who would be foolish as to write honest opinions would be out on the streets looking for another job. If I allowed my honest opinions to appear in one issue of my papers, before twenty-four hours my occupation would be gone. The business of the journalist is to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. You know it and I know it, and what folly is this toasting an independent press? We are the jumping jacks, they pull the strings and we dance. Our talents, our possibilities and our lives are all the property of other men. We are intellectual prostitutes."

    John Swinton 1829-1901 Former Head of Editorial Staff for the New York Times, he was one of America's best loved newspapermen. Called by his peers "The Dean of his Profession"

    Nothing has changed except for the much much worse in all that time.

    "And when the 12th largest company in the world controls the most awesome goddamn propaganda force in the whole godless world, who knows what s*** will be peddled for truth on this network"

    Peter finch (Howard Beale (Network 1976) a Prophetic film indeed.

    Time, Warners, 85% of the media in the WORLD not just America is a wholly owned subsidiary of a Rockerfeller, JP Morgan, Bilderberg, or one of the other 12 puppetmaster corporations.

    S*** peddled for so very true.

  258. demon

    well said, keep asking questions. just because you question something doesn't make you Un-American on the contrary it is what makes us Americans, you ask the difficult questions that rise heated debates. the problem is we let fear driven media play a part in our decisions in major Geo-Political issues without actually investigating further into it like Iraq the media blew it way out of proportion then kept changing the reasons for the war we need to get OFF the computer and do something about it, we can do something about it, they tame us to think we cant do a thing about it, but were all humans dammit we can overcome any situation. what ever happened to humanity these days.

    on a side note our mass propaganda media network is so intricate we don't even know where being propagandized, hell i fell for it i use to believe in what i was told, it wasn't until l was older that i saw the lies for what they were, not all middle eastern people are evil as of most of the world were just trying to live a good and fulfilling life, they demonize an entire culture claim it a threat to national security to justify their endless war im getting off subject but let me say this last thing TURN OFF THE TV AND GO TO YOUR LOCAL LIBRARY AND PICK UP A BOOK AND THINK FOR YOUR SELF AS APPOSED TO BEING TOLD HOW TO THINK BY YOUR BELOVED CORPORATE NEWS

  259. David Felshaw

    Did this crummy doc address the near complete lack of debris at the flight 93 crash site? Or did it just have that condescending ass (the one who talked about plane shaped holes in buildings) saying "Nah didn't happen that way" in a manner that makes it clear he thinks even questioning the official story is idiotic?
    The video crapped out on me after part 2 or 3 and they hadn't gotten to flight 93 yet. Looks like someone is being sued by Mtn. Lakes Realty.

  260. mahonhouse

    popular mechanics what about the israeli state sponsored company that moved out of the 17th floor couple of weeks before 911.
    I will never read a popular mechanics again as long as I live.

  261. Kumamori

    I was interested to see a document like this to challenge the conspiracy theories, since they seem far more eligible than the official versions to me. After reading around 50 comments I came to the conclusion of watching this. One comment said that this doc was made by conspicary theorists, to document the government view's supporters aka. myth-talkers aka. popular mechanics. See a few comments below mine and you'll see if people here believe those popular mechanics.

    Aron Fleszar's comment was interesting in particular. I wouldn't say that conspiracy theories are just theories, there's always a level of credibility to consider and that depends largely of who asks, who's considering, who's observing. You too read SotT... a good site it is.

    I'd like to remind to everybody to look for the solutions. Wiping us out obviously isn't their main priority, otherwise we'd be likely nuked to stone age a couple of decades ago. It may be their goal but certainly not an at-all-costs -one. If they wanna control us they don't do it through money but by keeping those basic necessities like food, clean water, apartment and energy available only through money. If you had all those, you wouldn't have to contribute your expertise and energy to whatever military, poisoning or robbing industry they make you go to. I got a newsflash for you: you can have every bit of those things, provided you can work the money for the apartment and a piece of land to grow food. There's far better ways to produce food as a single person or a family than plowing farming, find them!

  262. Yannick Dierens

    Now that's what I call a documentary. Oh, and I don't regard Loose Change as a credible documentary. In fact, I don't even regard it as a documentary. I wish all conspiracists would watch this documentary, and draw rational conclusions. I guess that's not going to happen, sadly.
    I can't even really understand how the conspiracy theories got into some scientists. Luckily the vast majority of the scientific world does not believe that the USA government is nothing but pure evil (and would be so for no apparent reason). I guess dealing with such a traumatic event is just not possible for some people, so they go another way. This would be an interesting subject for a psychology study.

  263. Yannick Dierens

    Have you ever, really?

  264. Yannick Dierens

    Are you kidding me?! Wow, there's really no point in argueing with people like you, you'll probably never come to senses. Just so you know: Loose Change is a film by some high school kids, that has been altered countless times because of indeniable factual errors (a LOOOOOT of them). And for god's sake, they don't just say "nope, didn't happen that way", these are the well documented answers to what happened on that day. You're just saying something because you're a non believer. Get a life.

  265. Yannick Dierens

    Dude, you are seriously mentally ill. Go see a psychiatrist. I think the diagnosis is acute paranoia. It scares me a little bit.
    Actually, I think the actual terrorists who committed the 9/11 attacks are people just like you. Completely f***ed up minds.

  266. GoughLewis

    I find your analysis dumb. We all get it... you watch Fox News, Dick Cheney never lies, you salute the flag, and you are a patriot. This Documentary was made for people just like you haha... dummy.

    There are too many Ph.D. scientists and engineers, architects, military and intelligence officials, politicians, legal scholars and other highly-credible people who question 9/11 -- literally thousands -- to list in one place.

    Finally, those who attack people who question the government's fairy-tale version of 9/11 (dutifully rolled out by the great repeaters like Fox News and CNN...) as "crazy" should get there head checked by some mental health professionals who have concluded that the official version of 9/11 is a blatant fraud.


    Psychiatrist Carol S. Wolman, MD

    Psychiatrist E. Martin Schotz

    Associate Clinical Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences, Duke University Medical Center, as well as Radiology, at Duke University Medical Center D. Lawrence Burk, Jr., MD

    Board of Governors Distinguished Service Professor of Psychology and Associate Dean of the Graduate School at Ruters University Barry R. Komisaruk

    Professor of Psychology at University of New Hampshire William Woodward

    Professor of Psychology at University of Essex Philip Cozzolino

    Professor of Psychology at Goddard College Catherine Lowther

    Professor Emeritus of Psychology at California Institute of Integral Studies Ralph Metzner

    Professor of Psychology at Rhodes University Mike Earl-Taylor

    Retired Professor of Psychology at Oxford University Graham Harris

    Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology from the University of Nebraska and licensed Psychologist Ronald Feintech

    Ph.D. Clinical Neuropsychologist Richard Welser

    Yannick Dierens get your head checked for moronism.

  267. Yannick Dierens

    Again with the insults, thanks, that makes a strong point.

    First of all, I don't watch Fox News because I'm not American (but I do know it). But that's typical of some Americans, they think there is only one country in the world. I don't even see how patriotism has anything to do with this, it's about being rational instead of paranoid, and science. If you want to hate the US government, that's fine by me, I may even agree with you on certain aspects concerning that. But that doesn't give you the right to start talking gibberish about the 9/11 attacks.

    Second, I don't base my judgement on any media. I don't even look into it unless it's objective and serious. I like to think rational, and be critical. Unlike you apparently.

    Third, I am out of here because you keep insulting me like a child, your comments are full of paranoia and plain lies, and I already made my point.

  268. oddsrhuge

    Hey Yannick, how about "Press for Truth"? How about the latest good news for first responders, that cancer won't be covered under the medical coverage for all those heroes who worked unselfishly, tirelessly while great men planned wars.

    Please tell me which engineering company you work for so I don't accidently hire you for a project.

  269. Yannick Dierens

    What exactly do your first two sentences have to do with your last one?

    Don't worry, I wouldn' work for you.

  270. oddsrhuge

    Absolutely nothing. Sorry that you can't keep two thoughts together and yet, understand them both.

  271. Attaboyslim

    The Clowns like those at Popular Mechanics are the biggest cowards on the planet. It makes me want to vomit every time I hear one of them say something about Conspiracy Theorists ignoring the facts in order to invent a fictitious story. When they say that "truthers" have nothing to rebut when confronted with the facts, I want to puke in a bowl and mail it to the idiot. That disgust holds equal truth to those making similar comments in this arena.

    First, a few facts and then a challenge to the "Coincidence Theorists" in this country.
    (1) To suggest that a single day in all of history showed [a] Planes that flew faster and maneuvered in manners that they typically could not handle and by inexperienced pilots, [b] that the laws of gravity and the physics of falling objects had explainable abnormalities, [c] the composition of structured steel showed expectable weaker strengths, [d] the properties of fire burned hotter, [e] that each of the previous examples were exponentially increased with regard to building 7 which had only minimal damage during the World Trade Center incidences; plus ... [f] the consistencies that are normally found in concrete, miraculously changed, [g] that the incredible number of accurate "put" options placed on that day was just good luck, [h] that the fires from that day created a heat signature that was visible from space over three weeks after the fact, [i] that Guiliani had a multi-million dollar emergency command post built that was nearly impervious but he avoided it's safety, [j] that Larry Silverstein had the incredible foresight to predict a "Terrorist" attack on the very same buildings he purchased for pennies on the dollar even though we had never had such an attack in over 200 years, [k] That the German artist who were given full access to the Towers while writing a book called "The Bee Thing" and who subsequently went on German Television to discuss the incident was a mass hallucination, [l] that, even though we had such incompetent military leaders that they occupied the entire military command in exercises and therefore were beaten on four occasions in a single day by guys with knives but were; themselves, given promotions for their actions, [m] that the most secure building on the planet was hit by an enemies weapon as well as 90 % of the surveillance cameras being disabled and yet, every video in the surrounding area was confiscated and they only had four snapshots to used as clues and that, [n] we had such a bumbling President that; during the confusion, he ordered out troops into a country that was never considered responsible for the attacks ... in advance of September 11, 2001 and accidentally killed over a Million innocent civilians ... if these are the things you continue to suggest then please know that it makes you appear very foolish and it is embarrassing.

    My Challenge: Because, I can understand the fact that it is absolutely and obviously impossible for the smallest part of anything to totally destroy the largest part but because you seem to be avoiding this fact, I make this suggestion. Either build a 110 story office building and furnish it exactly as the towers were and then remotely fly an airliner into the structure as an indisputable true test of what will or will not happen or prove to me that a single scoop of ice cream on top can destroy both the bottom scoops in an instant. Build something with "Leggos" and show me how it will work. Pour gasoline on top of it and it will not disintegrate. Please stop talking about the facts and use them in your rhetoric.

  272. killerqueen23

    Wow is it just me or did this documentary just make you believe in the conspiracies more than before? I wanted to watch this doc to see the "other side" of the story but they did little to address any of the known problems that "conspirators" have been circulating. They did a TERRRRRRRIBLE job refuting the claims made and really didn't fully explain (or should I say explain at all) their "expert" opinions.

    I truly and honestly went into this with an open mind and only discovered two things: popular mechanics is full of shit and that this was all staged.

    I'm sorry but if you believe in this you seriously lack intelligence and are EASY manipulated and coerced into believing exactly what they want you to believe.

    Being on the History Channel I was expecting much more - this was extremely disappointing and for sure and eye opener.

  273. Cody Bahr

    your a m*ron go back to wherever a yannick comes from...its not a rational conclusion to believe our govt was behind this?? how about the reports from the fire fighters that multiple explosions were going off in intervals to the point it was obvious they werent random, how about the fact that there was absolutely no wreckage at the pentagon, and the most obvious of it all you can literally see the towers being is impossible for a third building to have also fallen from a fire (tower 7) there have been many instances of buildings being on fire for much longer up to 24 hours and not falling! especially not perfectly down to the ground crumpled neatly inside themselves!!! theres proof beyond a doubt just in that fact alone and the bottom line is this..just think for a second what if the govt did do this, would they want the average person to be able to tell?? ofcourse not you my friend are proof that they are good at what they do the average sheeple will believe whatever they are told to because they have been conditioned that way, to believe and not to think. just look at our financial crisis which is also the fault of our government and its infinite corruption...people like you are hopeless idk why i even try u will see in the end

  274. Cody Bahr

    are you just posting here to try and get under peoples skin?? go spend your time educating yourself for what is to come and stop trying to irritate people who have already had their minds opened and hunger for truth instead of eating whatever they are fed as you obviously do.

  275. Cody Bahr

    i only read the beginning of what you wrote but u may find this interesting....the molten steel found below ground was right where the main support beams were and for there to have been damage to those beams under ground far from any plane crash there would have to have been an explosion detonated on purpose..or should i say implosion..i also saw an iwitness account from a janitor who had escaped but claimed he heard explosions in the basement before he heard the plane hit...just mentioning the molten metal in the basement was not smart popular mechanics hung themselves just by bringing that up

  276. Cody Bahr

    haha this guy again....why dont YOU get a life instead of trying to ruffle the feathers of people who dont think like you or in fact people who dont let someone think for your eyes do you really think everything they tell us is true?? thats just plain naive!! there are plenty of facts such as skyscrapers have been on fire for up to 24 hours without falling and the towers fell in minutes, a third building(tower 7) fell right on in on itself from a simple fire that migrated from the other tower, all three buidings imploded perfectly tho all 3 were in different circumstances, there were iwitness accounts of multiple explosions and even explosions happening seconds before the planes hit thouhg they oddly recanted or died of "heart attacks", plus a bunch more but i save the most obvious for last you can literally watch as floor by floor flashes right before the towers drop, though the videos with the best views of this are impossible to find, what a suprise, i remember seeing it live and knowing instantly that it was an implosion. you say we wont come to our senses, but just think if we are right for a that case its you who wont come to your senses. im one hundred percent sure im right! are you? educate yourself open your mind

  277. Cody Bahr

    that happened to me when i called someone an id10t ....its screening what you write and rejecting certain words i tihnk

  278. Cody Bahr

    also notice your the only person here....literally the only person....who hasnt simply said that this documentary is garbage...people are watching this with an open mind hoping to have scientific rebutals to the conspiracy they believe but yet nothing in this movie does that...maybe because you cant scientifically prove wrong what is right

  279. Greg_Mc

    Lol I have been called far worse than an id0t on here and it gets through, lol maybe if the insult or swear word used in the insult towards me is true then it gets through.

    @az I try to put the arrows or asterik's etc in the word myself now before I post it. It seems to work.

    @nobody specific: I saw vlatko post one time a while ago that he changes or censors certain words because google takes the words (called key words) that people type in their search engine and searches for sites that contain those words and thats how you get the list of sites that comes up. Starting usually with sites that contain your key words in their web page name or in their basic description of their sites (the key words they want their site to be associated with, it is called SEO Search Engine Optimization and some companies pay a lot of money to people who are knowledgeable in how google and other search engines work and can figure out/manipulate/play the game etc and come up with the key words or phrases that will get their web site on page one when people go online looking for a company etc that does what theirs does or a site containing the info they are looking for) and then as you go down the lists to the second page etc you find sites where your search words just match words within those sites (that often have nothing to do with what you are looking for but those words are used in the site refering to something else). And Vlatko doesn't want this site coming up (or being associated with) on a list that comes up when people type certain words in their search ie swear words.
    I am not speaking for Vlatko (nor is it my intention to make it look like Vlatko and I are friends or I have anything to do with this site because niether is true. Not that being his friend would be a bad thing as I am sure he is a very nice guy) so Vlatko if you happen to read this please don't think thats what I am trying to do. I am merely passing on what I remember you saying a while back and using it in my conversation about certain comments containing certain words and that they must be approved and some words changed a bit before they get posted, and with my memory not being great I hope that what I remember and am passing on is close to what you wrote that one time. And it would be an even bigger bonus if what I just wrote actually makes sense to anyone who takes the time to read it.

  280. Janne Börje Niemi

    WOW.What a big pile of BS.Documentary?LSLIPMP...(Laugh so loud i peed my pants)
    Shame on you...

  281. oddsrhuge

    I too, think you're real deal.

    But our arguments to the apologists are seemingly futile and specious.

    At this point I can pick suspicious/even smoking gun events, that have absolutely NOTHING to do with the events of that particular day. Yet, certain people will find additional rebuttals, sometimes based upon yelling me down, (great FOX news rhetoric) instead of actually coming up with decent cohesive alternate answers to explain the anomaly/ies.

    As in:

    I thought that bldg 7 was undeniable...we find deniers

    I thought that the fact that no one could stop this attack prior to the event, but those same people have a list of 19 confirmed hijackers and their boss within 24 hrs, was a good argument.

    I thought the fact that the most protected building in the entire world was hit, should have been a red flag.

    Actuarial tables from every single insurance company in the WORLD should have sharply changed. Check this one, if you dare.


    Official stories changing constantly.

    Authorities can find paper passports, head bandanas, DNA evidence etc... but no airline wreckage in two places.

    No Muslim names on any of the flight manifests.

    I could go on and on and on as you well know. The fact that there are still people arguing, won't shut me up anymore ...but I will no longer reply to the people who continue to use (as they might put it, rebuttals) I haven't seen a single rebuttal that has a peer reviewed answer. C'mon all you defenders of the official story, gimme something that isn't backed by the Gov't, or a contractor that depends upon Gov't contracts.

    That by my basic 5 senses are ridiculously flawed, is all I can come up with, if I am to believe the "other" conspiracy theory.

    We do, however, have fine breweries here in Canada, so we could just get completely pissed and forget all the fear and inequity. But tomorrow, we still have to deal with it.

    ...only NOW we're hung-over.

    I bet there is a Pharmaceutical for that.

    Cheers mate.

  282. oddsrhuge

    that was a very insightful comment.

    Good work.

  283. oddsrhuge

    Maybe you should address Cody or Gough now... being a victim of their awful wrath. I see no real attack on you . You were called a M*ron and someone said your analysis was dumb.

    How about, showing everyone on here how "smart" you are by offering a "real" argument?

    From your attempt at "logical" debate, I assumed that you had either a construction background or architectural design?

    Am I wrong? ( based upon your infantile address to this subject, I will bet you're just an opinionated guy) If i am wrong, did you pass, and become an Architect, Civil Engineer, conscientious objector?? Were you in the upper percentile? Or, are you just dumping garbage on people based upon a role of high-school debater?

    During my life I actually studied these buildings. Specifically Tower 1 & 2 of WTC. They were "miracles" of engineering.

    Redundancy was JOB NO.1

    But a couple of fires were enough to drop 'em in seconds.....

    Yeah, your arguments are awesome, wish I could have come up with half as good a counter-argument.

  284. Alan Beck

    that guy davin coburn has got the kind of face you could never tire of punching what a sleezy looking geezer.but forgetting that, they dont really say anything, i gave up watching the film after 20 minutes because it was pointless.the london bombings were the same,the train they supposedly boarded was cancelled making it impossible to get to london to catch their connections.bush and all those bankers are just way out of their depth regarding the elite that control what happens in this world we live in. just look at his face when he heard about the twin towers he looks like a man who was told it was going to happen but didnt believe they would do it.what a numpty.

  285. Francesca Alejandro

    This is probably an NWO sponsered film

  286. Liam MacSuibhne

    fabricated evidence???

    they didn't use any 'fabricated' evidence....they used exactly the evidence that the official inquiry used.

    the only difference was...they deconstructed and analysed it. And found it to be evidently contradictory and ludicrous.

    you're also calling people fools before they challenge you...but why would they look like fools?? You have nothing to present...just a spurious accusation. And random insults.

    I think that alone shows the defensiveness and duplicity of your position.


  287. Thorsten Kahlert

    What did you expect? History Channel is the McDonbald's of documentary producers. Their documentaries have the educational value of a cheese burger.. stupid dumb documentaries for stupid dumb people.

  288. Thorsten Kahlert

    This documentary was embarrassing to say the least and it unwillingly gives conspiracy theorist more fodder.. but that History Channel for you: sloppy research delivered in a sensationalist manner. All dumbed down to a degree that it looses all its informational value.

    However, I have come across this website and it provides an in-depth analysis of many if not all conspiracy theories and their evidence. so for all those looking to see both sides:

    debunking911 . com/

  289. Thorsten Kahlert

    @ Gough, yeah and the Titanic was unsinkable. And the Fukushima reactor was safe. It's proof only for how inaccurate such studies can be. Least to say how keen some developers are to cut corners by commissioning bogus studies..

  290. Rose Browning

    Well done ..I known I am....

  291. GoughLewis

    WATCH IT....

    "This incisive documentary analyzes the extreme, yet persistent, theories that cloud the memory of our national tragedy. Experts in engineering, intelligence and the military scrutinize 9/11 conspiracy theories. Based in large part on a breakthrough exposé by Popular Mechanics. Produced by the authoritative NBC News Productions."

    Worth a laugh. You will become a "conspiracy theorist" because specifically of the incompetence of the official fairy tale defenders. LMFAO, that bad haha.

    911 is obviously a false flag / stand down operation.

  292. dontdrinkthekoolaideither

    Watched a few minutes, but then I threw up a bit in my mouth. Propaganda, Popular Mechanics??? Seriously that's not what I'd call reliable unbiased critque. Nope I'll trust the thousands of pilots, engineers and experts in fire and demolition thanks. I couldn't stomach this video long enough to hear them explain how a handful of these hijackers on board the planes are alive and well today.

  293. Fusion1967

    OMG!! It is no wonder our country is going to hell in a hand basket, when so many people that call themselves educated people believe in the cock and bull stories that are put out there. I am thinking I should produce my own documentary about the 9/11 conspiracies. It sounds like a great way to make a buck on feeble minded people.

  294. Jakob Isindahowz

    I'm a PATRIOT damn it! And if you don't blindly believe what your government tells you, well, then you are the enemy! You are an evil doer! we're American damn it! we're good they're bad! So what if it turned out Saddam didn't have WMD, you patriots believed it,right? He was our ally but he had oil that we need so we take it. Wait we also trained the evil doers AlQuada but they were good guys then.
    So Yan, you actually buy the crap your leaders feed you? A REAL patriot would look at this as your fathers of confederacy did when they seperated from England because that government had become too powerful and corrupt. They had the foresight to know that this could happen in the future, in America, and sought to prevent this via a constitution. The rights that have been eroded away by your government's enacting the Patiot Acts. You are exactly what this government loves, blind herd mentality that buys whatever politicians tell them. Remember, you are helping the rich and powerful to consume your country to complete bankruptcy. This isn't happen in some distant future, its happening now and you still can't see it!

  295. Sammy Graham

    what a complete pile of crap. They're not examining any of the valid points correctly. Propaganda BS!

  296. Thang Tran

    Yea, none of them mentioned Miley Cyrus's corporation and her insider trading BEFORE 9/11.

  297. batvette

    and it will probably have all the legitimacy of Jane Fonda/John Kerry's Winter Soldier circus charade.
    The 9/11 "truther" movement is motivated by political ideology and does not have science or facts on its side, just strong beliefs.
    enjoy your life of fringe marginalization, and assisting the real corruption that went on regarding this event, to go on unpunished.

  298. batvette

    "that Larry Silverstein had the incredible foresight to predict a "Terrorist" attack on the very same buildings he purchased for pennies on the dollar even though we had never had such an attack in over 200 years, "

    Just like most CT's, accepting your argument requires one start with complete ignorance of any actual facts. 1993 WTC attacks. Google it.

    As for your demand a 110 story buiding be destroyed for your approval, fat chance, much cheaper to make you take a single class in physics:

    What is the load the lower part of one tower had to withstand when the upper 30 floors fell just 3 meters, or one floor, when that floor's columns failed? The load increases 30 times its static weight, due to inertia. What would happen if you carefully set a 900 story tower- a building 2 miles tall, on top of the lower 80 stories of one tower? Wouldn't it immediately slam into the earth, pulverizing anything in its path instantly?

    Ask Questions. RECOGNIZE ANSWERS.

    We have young Americans still fighting the people who did this. Your ignorance is not much support for them.

  299. batvette

    Let me ask you:

    If the fire could not have weakened the steel why do they require fireproofing material (which was knocked off by the impact of the planes then a fire ensued) on all steel skyscrapers?
    Is it because the architects and engineers are s***** and enjoy increasing the build cost by about 5 or 10% for nothing?

  300. batvette

    What would happen to the lower 80 floors of one tower if you carefully placed the mass of a 900 story (2 miles high!) tower on top of it? Wouldn't the 900 story building slam to the ground in seconds, pulverizing the structure below?
    Simple physics. 30 floors above, by falling just 3 meters, saw inertia increase its load on the floors below by 30 times.
    Ask any physics professor, he'll verify those figures.
    There are many youtube videos that show this is what happened, they are especially obvious in the second tower's collapse when you see the entire upper part of the building move as one toward the ground instantly.
    Like a giant hammer.

  301. GoughLewis


    Ask any Physics professor. You have no idea. Hey, look up "Equations for a falling body" on google. Might help you understand why it is all so ridiculous.

  302. Tyler J. Brown

    notice that nowhere in this documentary do they "debunk" or even MENTION the evidence of the molten steel found at ground zero. they cover the fact of the temperature of the fires and the notion that those temperatures may have been high enough to weaken the steel around the impact site but don't even touch on the fact that there was molten steel at the site that is IMPOSSIBLE to explain given the actual temperature of the fires in those buildings. but then again there is one entire 9 minute long segment missing from the playlist due to "copyright laws" so it could be in there but i seriously doubt it. NOR do they mention the fact and video evidence of the BBC reporting the collapse of building 7 as a past event right in front of the still standing tower. perhaps the conspiracy theorist don't have everything right but they are raising valid questions backed by testimony of far more credible experts than this documentary's less than handful of so-called experts whose credentials weren't even officially cited. i wont say that this "expose" is total BS but it is far from successful in debunking anything.

  303. Peter Bowles

    this is ridiculous. I'm supposed to believe that the "one" security camera that caught the pentagon crash ran at one frame per second? ONE!!! frame per second?? If it was the 1950's, i'd buy that.

  304. Rocky Racoon

    Anyone interested in well researched material from a variety of scholars should visit It i sin Montreal and you get better news on events in the world their then CNN or Fox or the Washington Post for that matter.

  305. Christian Klinckwort Guerrero

    You have no ethics, still I will pray for you. 911 was a real estate fraud and a political issue. I feel sorry for any who thinks different

  306. Christian Klinckwort Guerrero

    Stop lieing, please. By now we all now it is the Bushe's oil. I do not likr you George

  307. Benjamin Clarkson

    You don't know alot about physics. Force = Mass x Acceleration. So, you've got a top third of 154,000,000 kg (the total weight of one tower). That's about 50,000,000 kg of mass, now accelerate that over the standard gravitational acceleration of 10 m/s for about 3 floors of damage. That'd create force of around 600,000,000 kg slamming into the bottom two thirds, easily pulverizing concrete which has a practical tensile strength of 0, and creating more energy as the force accumulates more mass and more acceleration as a function of the gravitational constant. That's alot of energy, I am a little rusty on my calculus, but I think it would end up being far more than the melting temperature for any structural steel underneath (my first attempt to calculate it came out with about the heat of the surface of the SUN, but that sounded too fantastic, so I will not claim that).

  308. Dan McMichael

    This does a great job of reaffirming my beliefs that it was an inside job even further. 8 minutes through the second part and so far none of the "Expert Debunks" have been even remotely scientific or supported by scientific evidence.

    "Produced by NBC Productions." Says everything you need to know.

  309. Kool Moe

    united states of america is the devil!!! may ALLAH protect his rightous servants

  310. David Foster

    Well, Benjamin.. If everything you just said is correct, then everyone in every city EVERYWHERE should GET THE HELL OUT NOW, because their lives are in mortal danger!!

    So, do you want to be the one to tell them that, or should I? :-)

  311. RAHUL M

    hey,there is evidence of high temperature incendiaries in all dust samples of the 9/11: Explosive Evidence – Experts Speak Out.according to this docu. ''cutting-edge 9/11 evidence from more than 50 top experts in their fields – high-rise architects, structural engineers, physicists, chemical engineers, firefighters, metallurgists, explosives experts, controlled demolition technicians, and more''.thier experts too!so its left to you,to make your choice & have your opinion in this opiniated society.both sides of ''experts'' have to present the case/lets see which side is true.9/11 commision was a farce some on the board say so too,others should not be there considering conflict of interests.its a fact the govt lies & has lied or with-held information about 9/11 so it shows theres no closure yet on 9/11 & must be investigated by the UN with observeres from all media groups,left,right & centre,scientists,people from political cirlces,eminent persons having any political affiliation/stance,academecians,sall nations big & small not just the GWbush,secy's,military men,cia operatives/heads of dept...etc..let it televised all around the world.let none escape light of day.everything must be open.until that happens everyones right & everyones wrong.everything on the left isnt right,everything on the right LET TRUTH PREVAIL, not some bunch of ''OPINIONS''.

  312. Larry149

    the skeptic magazine guys argument doesn't have any evidence. His argument is, 'yes it is how it happened, think about it.' How did he get his job? Thats not an argument.

  313. Christian Klinckwort Guerrero

    This film is rubish, old fashion, overdone

  314. Myk Lab

    why did the stock exchange record major put options on airlines out of the US days before it happened? Why did the US arrest and detain Israeli agents who were recording the incident? How did these Israeli's know to be there to record that day? Why did they (after their release) go on Israeli TV and say they were sent there to record the incident??

  315. TheParadigmShift

    Popular Mechanics is owned by Hearst Publishing, the very same Hearst Publishing who is in the dictionary under "yellow journalism".

    Hearst created the fairy tale that marijuana makes black men rape white women which in turn led to the prohibition of Cannabis.

    They also whored themselves to the US government when they put out this garbage.

  316. awful_truth

    This documentary is a fine example of attaching the label of 'conspiracy theorist' to anyone who doesn't accept the stautus quo explantion. Michael Shermer makes reference to the Kennedy assassination which absolutely ignores evidence that is beyond refutiation. Although there is some sound arguments raised in this documentary, the greatest questions are not addressed. Since the so called experts only wish to acknowledge certainty, I will leave everyone with an undisputable fact. George Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld killed and displaced far more poeple in 8 years then Saddam Hussein, Osama Bin Laden, and Momar Khadafi did in 40 years! This does not recriminate the tyrants from abroad, only identifies a greater evil in certainty!

  317. oddsrhuge

    now that you have a new name....let me begin.

    Concrete actually pulverized.

    Workers boots melted at ground zero.

    What fire ejects 350,000 lb metal beams laterally, with enough force to penertrate other buildings 400 meters away?

    Where did you get the evidence that they calculated that the planes that might hit the towers were specifically supposed to have "low fuel" reserves?

    I notice that the plane that hit the ESB didn't drop it. But oh yeah, you said it was almost out of fuel.

    Early in this post I talked about starting a demo company based upon kerosene fires...Why, based upon the 911 report cant I just get a business licence?

    I eagerly await a new response.

    You consistently try to claim to sensible arguments but rarely employ them within the text of your answers...

  318. oddsrhuge

    @ Kool moe...give it up...

  319. oddsrhuge

    quite simply the heavy mass on top would give way.....and then fall

    Into the path of "least resistance" not THROUGH THE EXISTING STRUCTURE

    It would kind of be like a chopping of a tree...does the mass up top, crush the stump?

  320. over the edge

    what new name? secondly i walked away from this discussion 7 months ago. what makes you think i wish to start it up again?

  321. oddsrhuge

    This particular point bothered me a lot. Long before 911, I was in DC and actually did a pentagon tour. I couldn't swear to the statement that it had it's own Ground to Air defense system, as has been claimed by other people.

    You know what I saw? Cameras....everywhere...that one side, by my estimation, should have been filmed showing over 200 different angles, by pretty High res machines. But, maybe they really were all broken on that day.

  322. oddsrhuge

    "You don't know alot about physics. Force = Mass x Acceleration. So, you've got a top third of 154,000,000 kg (the total weight of one tower). That's about 50,000,000 kg of mass, now accelerate that over the standard gravitational acceleration of 10 m/s for about 3 floors of damage. That'd create force of around 600,000,000 kg slamming into the bottom"

    WOW! Who failed to use a formula that makes any sense?


    So, to start your response with..."You don't know alot about physics." says a lot about your lack of basic education.

  323. Achems_Razor


    Pentagon..."Cameras everywhere?" "200 different angles? had its own ground to air defence system?"

    Did not know that, new twist, have to check that out.

  324. Jordan Stevens

    This video proves nothing. As long as the masses have a lack of understanding of science and finance, they will forever be duped into believing whatever anyone tells them. I have my undergrad in physics and masters in structural engineering. I was getting my masters in 2002 and frankly no one questioned it at the time. No one even took 10 seconds to question it or write down a single formula. Then I saw a 9/11 video and was like, duh, of course it wasn't possible. I can't believe the entire time no one in my class even questioned it. 60 Students, a dozen professors at a top level University. Huh? Of course it was controlled demotion. Why? I don't know. Just laws of physics say so. But I can imagine the worst, since there was a cover-up.

  325. matthew m

    I'm not even going to watch this doc.The arguments below are more than enough entertainment for any website.Keep the LOLtrain rolling.
    (readies popcorn).

  326. oddsrhuge

    In an attempt to be accurate , and not someone who just, spews more anomalies to add to the "Official Version" ...200 might be a stretch...

    I will try to qualify the statement. As I said, I cannot verify or deny the existence of a G to A system. I have just stumbled onto that snippet at some point in the past.

    I obviously can only comment upon visual evidence.

    So from my own eyes...I saw the outside walls of the structure. Each side is 921 feet long. Parapet, mounted cameras are located approximately every 20 feet. This would account for about 46 cameras pointed out from the building on each side. There are also multiple cameras mounted on fixed posts at various distances and pointed back at the building in what appeared to be a 360 degree coverage area. I would estimate these locations to number 50-60. Now based upon the fact that this is the most top secret and protected public structure in the World, I assumed that there would be many other hidden surveillance locations not apparent to an average visitor. So I am still left with; even in a conservative estimate...approximately 80 angles.

    We the public, got one single (pentagon) camera view (showing the wrong day and time). That just NEVER worked for me.

  327. oddsrhuge

    I can't stop. Lets assume that like the 7/7 London event. That many cameras malfunctioned...even if that meant 80% of 80 cameras failed...that still equals more than 1 should have filmed the "crash".

  328. Zechular

    Quick question about the Pentagon (and I'm seriously trying to keep an open mind here):

    If you guys don't accept that Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon, what about the 59 civilians and 5 terrorists that are said to have lost their lives in the crash? They never existed? Their friends and families are all in cahoots with NWO or whoever orchestrated the attack? Or they were all disappeared by the government to make it look like they died in a plane crash?

    I'm not an American and I haven't followed the 9/11 debate closely, so forgive me if this seems like just another stupid question from a brain-washed "non-believer".

  329. diamonddavemon

    What really upsets me is the negative image that conspiracy theorists get from the other side. We have a huge series of events that requires an explanation. All theorists are doing is asking for an explanation. But the ****** who blindly believe what the govt says suddenly paint the theorists as kooks. Why? They are asking questions, asking for explanations that everyday people can understand. Most questions asked by theorists are based on logic, whereas all responses by "debunkers" are contemptuous and never fully explain. I've watched many conspiracy documentaries and a lot of valid questions have been raised. Yet no one on the other side seems to be able to actually debunk anything. I admit, I am intrigued by conspiracies, just like a good fictional thriller...but because this deals with the deaths of many innocent people I sincerely would like to know the truth because they deserve justice. I am open to learning the truth even if it means that all 911 conspiracy theories are false. Yet 20 minutes into this documentary and I've heard nothing that debunks any of the claims. Nothing. I hear people talking but they're not disproving anything. I agree that some theorists out there are full of ****. But that does not discount the many inconsistencies that they point out. This documentary has answered nothing. And it's a bit insulting to have the editors of Popular Mechanics and Skeptic magazines speaking in condescending tones even as the so-called experts leave us with just as many questions if not more than when we started.

  330. Kriseida Vallejo

    exhaustively examines??? haha

  331. Jakob Isindahowz

    You ask a good question. As said above ,I'd recommend watching National Security Alert. I like to see facts and witness testimony and this film interviews many witnesses and brings up some very interesting points that contradict the official story regarding the specific direction of the jet. Then there are the countless pilots who say that it would be an extremely difficult manouver for anyone let alone someone who could barely fly a Cessna and the fact there is ZERO evidence that the alleged pilot was on the flight. (c'mon, no video at the airport?). This is the Pentagon and they refuse to show any clear tape of the impact(why not). There is nothing left that directly matches to the jet that hit it.(the massive engines just vaporized?). The 2 hours of no intercept despite this being the freaking PENTAGON and there being an airforce base some 10 miles away. Finally the luck that it happened to hit the accounting area where ome trillion dollar mistake had just been admitted=no more evidence regarding that. There were also witnesses who saw a jet immediately after the explosion which apparently no one actualy saw. All this forces me to have serious doubts regarding the official story. There are just way too many things that do not make sense, mostly the fact that the public has not been simply shown clear video. This is the Pentagon, I know there is clear video. Why not show it? Finally, like everything else there was no criminal investigation or any investigation. Nothing was taped off ,recorded, and the like, simply brushed away. This ,personally, is the most astonishing fact regarding all of 9/11, the complete lack of a thorough investigation regarding the most serious crime ever in America, that leaves me with very serious questions.

  332. oddsrhuge

    I personally think, that anyone with even 3 of the 5 "claimed senses", could sense a problem with even a single building, falling because of fire...I will add, even if this person never saw the event.

    Lest we all forget the fact, that in the history of steel framed protected structures, not one, has EVER, experienced this anomaly.

    Three of these buildings fell in NY, on 9,11,01.

    A mathematician can explain the rest to you.

    However, a physicist could also tell you how:

    Pyroclastic clouds are only formed by explosions and volcanoes and the "Third law of Thermodynamics" was only "suspended" on 911, and now?

    Is it back in play. Or did actuary statistics change?

    Everyone, just keeps watching the news...those guys know better. And why would you want to argue with facts of the “911 Commission Report”?

    And now I am starting to realize the futility of a new investigation…like any agency/corporate, policy. Even if someone(s) are given this guilt.

    Blow-back = Damage control.

    Nobody who matters will ever swing for this day.

    Never mind,I need to watch TV. Ah, happiness again.

  333. Rhodium1233

    I'd be interested in finding out who owns History channel and who owns Popular Mechanics magazine. Produced by NBC news? Who are they. I think the resources that people put into theses documents are impressive but why wasn't a real investigation ever conducted in regards to 9 11 ? Why is our info coming from documentaries instead of official reports conducted by appropriate Government departments?

  334. WD Browser

    This "documentary" is incredibly weak. Selected claims by so-called "conspiracy theorists" are "refuted" by having a couple of skeptics from Popular Mechanics basically characterizing what these silly people typically do. There are no specifics, just name-calling and straw-man arguments.

  335. C.B.O.L.A.R.

    Popular mechanics were bought off... Caught in a bunch of lies and incosistencies when confronted. Shabby unscientific "research" at best.

  336. oddsrhuge

    What 59 bodies? Did you see any bodies in the immediate news coverage of the event? Any seats, engines, luggage, landing gear? Or even any damage consistent with the story we were told?

    I didn't, but the experts were able to to identify "all" the "bodies" found, using DNA. That is pretty amazing given two other facts stated "Officially."

    Fact 1 - NO Muslim names appeared on ANY of the flight manifests from that day.

    Fact 2- The entire plane was said to have vapourized after hitting the target.

    Planes vapourize, but bodies retain enough DNA evidence to be identified in short order. The NIST Graphic shows an Airliner smashing it's way through the building's structural members, all the way to the inner courtyard without any engines attached to its wings....very plausible.

  337. coolbeenz

    ive watched 2 min of this and i can already see how terrible it is, of course its on a main stream channel,,, people do not buy into this brainwashing agenda, do some real research and watch a video that points out real facts and ask real questions

  338. coolbeenz

    loose change 9/11 was made by 3 kids in their young 20's and only one had a degree, it only cost 2,000 dollars, and it has changed millions of peoples views, imagine if they had all the resorces the history channel has,,, it just shows how obvious it is that 9/11 was an inside job!!!

  339. coolbeenz

    this is absolutly pathetic, just horrible, every 9/11 conspiracy video ive seen is way way way more detailed and professional,,,, by the way no building has fell do to fire, EVER!!!!

  340. Joe Marquis

    this is complete BS anyone who watches this is wasting my guess but nearly start to finish it is absolute bs......

  341. jPhotonica

    Totally agree, I started watching this, thinking I would learn something that would shed some light on my own suspicions and debunk some of these so called bogus conspiracy claims. However, all this documentary did was show us multiple excepts from various 911 conspiracy videos, while inserting interviews from those claiming those videos were all a farce without providing any hard evidence or plausible explanations on their part. When I first heard about this tragic event, my first question was how this collapse was even possible, comparing it to the B-25 crash into the Empire State Building in 1945. Even back then these buildings were designed to withstand such a collision. From that moment, and to this day, I felt that more questions were left than answered.

  342. WiseGapist

    "We have young Americans still fighting the people who did this. Your ignorance is not much support for them."

    - That statement is ridiculous, to me, that sounds as if you're valuing the life of an American who has CHOSEN to kill for the furtherance of their own country, over the innocent civilians being butchered in the middle east...

    If you have any mourning over the deaths of American soldiers you should be directing your anger where it belongs - at the filthy, greedy elites happily sending their citizen's children off to die for their own profits...

    I don't jump on board every outlandish conspiracy theory I hear, but some statements branded 'conspiracy theories' with all of the negative connotation that carries are seemingly common sense. Are you under the delusion that our political/legal/corporate system is somehow not thoroughly corrupt at the highest levels? Or that those in power would not gladly kill as many of their own people as it takes to increase their power?

    And for the record, I have absolutely zero respect for anyone who joins the army outside of conscription or some direct call to arms because of a war brought to them... And 9/11 certainly doesn't qualify^

  343. batvette

    Your portrayal of Americans who were sent to Afghanistan in response to the attacks of 9/11 on the WTC by terrorists is repugnant and ridiculous.

    Furthermore your pessimistic beliefs about corruption in government, right as they may be, do not begin to provide an iota of proof the towers were brought down by controlled demolition by some evil cabal and not by terrorists who hijacked airliners.

    So your reply was all useless rhetoric with little substance toward the relevant topic, but I do find amusing the standard detached condemnation of filthy greedy elites as you type your comments on as PC made from petrochemical products, powered by fossil fuels, and almost certainly paid for with a job you drive to using middle east oil in a company full of similarly sourced fixtures and machines. Not only is every aspect of your life including wiping your backside possible only because of petroleum, the prosperity every American has long taken for granted is because of a commitment we made to the Royal Family of Saudi Arabia in 1973, that we would protect them from harm (i.e; Saddam Hussein) in exchange for their swing vote in OPEC guaranteeing all petroleum exports by the group be priced in dollars.

    Bellow and bluster all you like about what's right or wrong, but I think the most noble thing to do is not walk away from your end of a deal you've already been paid for.

  344. batvette

    The event at the Empire State Building was a propeller powered WW2 era bomber lost in fog, loitering at near stall speed, empty on fuel. The building it hit was steel framed within heavy concrete columns.
    There is absolutely no resemblence whatsoever with any aspects of the event in 2001. Hopefully you don't need me to hold your hand with any "hard evidence or plausible explanations" to expand upon the above.

  345. batvette

    It would not cost a lot of money to change the views of millions of stupid people.

  346. batvette

    If fires from common office contents were not hot enough to place the structure in jeopardy in a major fire, why do all such structures have fireproofing insulation sprayed onto their frames during construction? Because the builders like to waste money on nothing?
    You certainly cannot provide a rational argument against the above point.
    Now consider not one of you conspiracy theorists has ever disputed the point that the impact of the aircraft knocked virtually all of the fireproofing material off of the structural steel beams on the affected floors.
    So what seems to be the problem here?
    Given the above we saw the outer walls of the affected floor bowing outward appx. one minute before collapse on helicopter news footage.
    What happens to the load applied to a structure below it, when a mass previously static is allowed to fall 3 meters? The mass increases by THIRTY TIMES. What would happen to either tower if another tower of either 400 or 900 floors was carefully placed on top of it? Wouldn't that huge mass instantly pound to the ground like a hammer hitting a glass nail, pulverizing anything in its path?
    Of course it would. If you have a rudimentary grasp of physics, you can't help but know there is NO WAY those towers had a chance of standing, once those floors were deprived the protection of their fireproofing and subjected to a large jet fuel accelerated blaze of its existing contents.

  347. batvette

    "barely fly a Cessna".
    The man in question did poorly in written and verbal testing for his advanced licensing due to the language barrier, his native language is Arabic. He did hold instrument and commercial pilot certification and there is no evidence he lacked the "seat of the pants" ability to fly a plane that would have been the most critical element to pulling off such a maneuver.
    Let's face it, all this conspiracy talk is the product of people's beliefs there is an evil cabal in government trying to further seize power and capital. Beliefs are not evidence, and if you would like to look at evil and motivations to undertake this action try this one.
    Al Qaeda's most prominent grievance stated in their fatwa of 1998 that led to this was the killing of over a million Muslims, most of them small children, in Iraq because of the sanctions on them.
    Why do you feel the need to look elsewhere for evil or motivations?
    Thousands upon thousands of people work at the Pentagon. They'd all have to be bought off to remain silent if this was staged, and what about all those who were injured? They all just took a hit for the commander in chief so his right hand guy could jack up his halliburton stock?
    Go ahead and keep the faith, sir, just don't be surprised to find yourself more and more marginalized as the years go by for doing so.

  348. batvette

    a credible rebuttal would have contained the corrected equation, not an ad hominem at the person you allege was uneducated.

  349. batvette

    An analogy of a tree being chopped down? No thank you.
    The path of least resistance? To the ground. To imply the upper structure would have remained intact and toppled sideways away from the remainder of the building is not a rational theory.

  350. Guest


    Short & sassy reply I'll say. For a n-USA citizen that is...
    Just as if it doesn't comes from a USA citizen...

    So the hoax from the USA Gov. for wich your official Gov. liar threw his WMD babling to the face of the world at the US, do sums down to a debt to the Saudi's totalitarians!
    It may be noseworthed to understand clearly that the whole was a deal between 2 reigning totalitarians: -The Royal Saudi Family and the USA based Ex-NAZI faction, the Bush family.

    To tell you frankly, it's been a while that the world (Apart the USA) knows that. And this is reason why the ill-called "Coalition" that went into Iraq consist chiefly in the USA & the UK.
    In some other words: Slaves and bïthes.

    It reminds me about this USA citizen here on TDF claiming that the USA Gov. would never harm its citizen.
    It's a pitty that he/she is not still around to show her/him that sub-humans as you are, do exist.

    However all in all, it was a good thing for humankind since that in now days we have sort of somewhat powerfull medias such as the Internet even though it ain't much of a use in this case.

    I mean: - It's a heck of a bad thing to lose the benefice of doubt to the eyeS of the whole world. If the USA is to be considered as one nation, thus one single beast shall I say, y our criminal file is as thick and lond as it can ever be.
    You don't have any benefice of doubt from on.
    The exact same thing as any recidivist.
    I don't want to make business with potent recidivists.
    I prefer to ignore & walk away.

    The world would be a much better place to live if you wouldn't exist. Hey! It's been ~ 40 years since the main thing that you guys are mostly causing prejudice to humankind!
    What's the ratio between the USA population to the rest of the world? Less than 1%?
    -About the same as in Germany in 1939?
    -Your convinced that you could wipe the 99% in a day?

    In closing, I jdon't really care if Bush and his gang succeeded or not the 9/11 thing. Considering the millions you guys have tortured in your war crimes since the 1950, 3,000 isn't much a big thing.

    You are a waste to be flushed away.


  351. batvette

    The towers took nearly twice free fall speed to come down, and in one a 40 story core section remained standing for close to a minute IIRC.

  352. Guest


    Nah! Rather, it would cost a lot of money to provide them with judgement.


  353. jPhotonica

    No, I don't need anyone to hold my hand and it would be nice for a change for people commenting on internet boards with opposing views to do so without the condescension. Actually, I have no position on 911 except for my condolences to the victims' families. To say both incidents had no semblance, well, there were just different in the details; the premise is the same, aircrafts hitting building. I am aware that in 2001 the jet was full of fuel and like I said, these buildings are design for that structurally and really, saying that the fire dampening was so fragile that it just jiggled off the beams on impact is making an assumption. In any case, maybe it was just too much for the twin tower to withstand, but, on the other hand, claims of people hearing what sounded like explosions doesn't prove explosives were used, maybe it was just the sound of columns snapping. So, either way, my point is, this documentary just didn't do a good job answering any questions, that's why I didn’t waist my time finish watching it.

  354. Guest


    If you guys could fix your thing not to be stucked wit a bunch of criminals as the Elite, you sure wouln't have to bable out all that "Maybe, perhabs, it is possible, but considering" & Etc...

    Just keep the debris available to get something else but a hoaxed inquiry as yiu laws requires!

    Who's above the law in the USA?
    Isn't it supposed to be the rule of law & order over there or else,, is it a reminence of the criminal organisations dating back to the 20's?

    You may well bable as much as much as yiu like but it comes to building #7, sorry is no pretexte to justify torture at large and war crimes.

    Especially in the case of well recognised recidivist.

    Babller. A shame to humankind.


  355. Guest


    (Quote) : -"twice free fall speed to come down" ?

    There was sort of huge magnet under that WTC tower or what?
    And a heck of a huge one, wasn't it?
    Just as in your dreams that is?

    Hey Batvette, psychiatrists don't call that dreams but rather "Delirium Tremens".

    You need to consult.


  356. batvette

    A WW2 era B-25 bomber weighs about 1/6 what a 757 weighs, empty. Add the passengers and luggage and it could be twice that difference. The fuel on board (10,000 gallons x 6.8 lbs. per) adds significantly to that.
    A WW2 era bomber can loiter at little over 100 KIAS. The 757's that hit the towers were travelling over 500 KIAS.
    Do you understand what a huge difference in kinetic energy we are talking about here? Calculations are pointless but they aren't linear, if we're talking say 10x the weight and 5x the speed.... this is why I said you can't compare the events at all, it's not only details, unless you think it's just details to borrow someone's car and explain backing into a wall at 1 mph and smashing into it at 60 mph.
    "saying that the fire dampening was so fragile that it just jiggled off the beams on impact is making an assumption."
    It's not disputed by either side of this debate, it's really a given considering the impact of energy to the structure. Fireproofing material is primarily Gypsum- it's dust with some binders added.
    Remember the impacts didn't cause the collapse, they removed the fireproofing and sheared some columns, the resulting fires weakened the steel to the point where with those columns removed, the load bearing capability of the affected floor became less than was required.
    I will agree however that the documentary was poor in addressing some points but that is something I probably didn't notice because I only watched a few minutes of it and I didn't end the points to be addressed in the first place.
    Finally sorry about the condescending tone, you're right on that but it's usually a result of others' comments getting to me and it affects the tone you take with others. Look at Pierre's replies, (if they aren't moderated, they're pretty much off topic and flaming) what am I supposed to do with such nonsense...

  357. batvette

    Pierre, perhaps if you offer something of topical relevance in comment I might find reason to expend the energy of a meaningful reply. Why you feel the need to wad up all your hatred for the USA and hurl it at me is puzzling to say the least, but I know that relevance or decorum is not always on the mind of people who post drivel on the internet with the misguided belief others wish to see it.
    Have a splendid day,
    Your sub human American babbler.

  358. Guest


    (Quote once more) : -"Fireproofing material is primarily Gypsum- it's dust with some binders added".

    Either you are extremely ill informed, a fool working on his personnal greed or else, a mental deficient.

    Close to everybody knows that in those bulding, the fireproof compound was based on a 2 packs epoxy loaded with abestos.
    If you ever heard of abestos...

    The more commets you add here, the more we see how much of a hoax you are young turk.

    "-Twice free fall speed to come down"
    I'd never expected to see such a ridiculous statement!
    Did you graduated pre-school?
    Then go back and up-grade.


  359. Guest


    Next time, bare in mind that it aint't everyone who'd swollow your insanity. Look at what you wrote...

    Stunning! "-Twice free fall speed to come down".
    As stupied as it can ever be!

    For the rest, look around on this website and get informed about the foreign USA policies since the 50's.
    The list is way too long to be done in a paragraph.
    And it's fully documented and corrobared.
    Do you expect a little kiss with this?



  360. jPhotonica

    There, point taken, your input helped shed a little light, especially about fire dampening. Actually, I thought the fire dampening was like a one or two inch thick sticky foam covering the beams, but, I was fuzzy on those details and would have to look that up. For sure, that would have made a difference in accelerating the melting of the steel. Just like to add, acknowledging that free speech and debate is the core of democracy, I do wish these 911 videos weren't so one sided, they all seem to have agendas either way (it's mostly about making a dollar is my guess).

  361. batvette

    Come to find out I didn't quite have all my details straight. In researching my facts before replying to that "charming" fellow Pierre, I found the website linked to in my previous post that showed in a series of repeated inspections of the Towers by Morse & Associates between 1994-2000, numerous gross deficiencies in the fireproofing of both towers was documented- including areas where the coating had been applied directly over rust in initial construction. The coating stuck to the rust but the rust had separated from columns when the rust peeled away, in some places in sheets up to three stories high. In most cases the areas inspected showed the coatings to be far thinner and bare than required by existing code. The inspections were not done above the 78th floors of either tower but the inspector stated he would expect conditions to have been the same on the floors that burned. There's pictures of all of that on that site.
    Other deficiency prone areas included the columns in the elevator shaft areas, with extensive fireproofing missing from being damaged by elevator cables. Areas where the floor joist mounts were welded to the outer columns- the parts that the NIST said failed, triggering the collapse- are shown to have little or no coating at all when they should have had 1.5-2 inches thickness.
    So not only was fireproofing knocked off by the planes, it's doubtful what was there prior to their impact would have even been adequate to protect the structure in a large fire with jet fuel accellerent. (on that we have to remember we aren't looking at the temperature the fuel burns at but that it ignited vast amounts of traditional combustibles in a short time, burning at up to 1800 degrees. For instance one floor that burned had large banks of uninteruptible power supply batteries. Office furniture contains particle board made with formaldehyde and other chemicals and materials that burn very hot.)
    The collapse wasn't just a result of the impact of planes and a huge fire, but of shoddy workmanship and poor maintenance as well.
    All these facts are well known to the people that produced the NIST report, I can see why they become frustrated with people who refuse to accept their findings. Once you consider this body of evidence, you think "of course this is what happened".

  362. WiseGapist

    "So your reply was all useless rhetoric" xD
    - Frankly, I don't think, "We have young Americans still fighting the people who did this. Your ignorance is not much support for them." could be defined as anything other than.^

    I wasn't really adding relevant substance regarding the doc in question, sorry, saw your remarks and couldn't resist. Regarding that very irrelevance, I don't actually believe 100% it was a controlled explosion... BUT the government's involvement is undeniable, even if it is as minor as knowing in advance about the attacks from their own intelligence info and ignoring it, allowing preventable deaths, any controlled explosions aside. Do you deny any prior knowledge on their part? I they allowed it they are as guilty as if they did plant explosives.

    And please, to say I cannot criticize warmongering in the name of oil because I happen to own and use a PC is utterly absurd, do I really have spell out why? Yes, I was born and survive within an infrastructure that has been built on oil, my choice? No. Have the people with oil interests actively geared western societies toward excessive oil consumption to create a reliance that facilitates their own control? Yes.
    Also as a matter of fact, I don't use a car, I live in Amsterdam and use a bike (it is the norm here), though I do wipe my arse... Anyway..

    "Bellow and bluster all you like about what's right or wrong, but I think the most noble thing to do is not walk away from your end of a deal you've already been paid for."
    - Haha, noble?! Have you even seen the Iraq war files? They are far from noble... Is this your justification for entering Iraq? And who is this 'we' who made an agreement with the **** Saudi royals? Was that 'we' being US Oil and their allied political interests or was it an informed majority of the American people making a 'noble' choice for the people of the world?

    Also, why are my comments about US soldiers repugnant? I'm surprised you didn't add un-American and blasphemous seeing as your initial statement sounded like something out of Bill O'Reilly's right-wing mouth.

  363. Guest


    Oh yes! I omited...
    How much the blazes of the "Open" fire went on for so long.
    Open flames just as if someone would have feed the fire with oxygen! As any credible party would say, flames of a size never seen before in history! The other parties are unworthy and shall be dismiss as it was done by our "Revered" 9/11 commission in so many other instances.
    If it would had been Kissinger who would have been at the head as first thought by Bush Jr. the case would have been solved so much faster.

    We seen all flames on tape, how could it be omited?
    All things consired, the chit-chat is in the end, or a lesser concern since it was captured on tape.

    "1800" ??? Ignorant up to a point where it just can't be anything else but an intentionnal mislead to mislead others.
    Even the 9/11 comission report didn't publish that to make sure that they wouldn't taken as totally inept "Deuce or Spaids" .


  364. Guest


    You sure did prove your point.

    When it comes to be Rpugnant and ridiculous", you win it all.
    -Fuel jet that burns at some 1800 degrees!

    No wonder what kind of studies are availables over there.
    Why wouldn't begin by reading the official Gov. 9/11 report?
    Or have it read by someone you know, who is not biaised?
    Whooh! Not one good candidate around...?


  365. batvette

    Pierre, in two posts already you found it an excuse for worthy reply to simply point at a claim of mine and call it stupid. I did take the time to find substantiating links to back my claims, to which you could not even be bothered to acknowledge.
    If you are calling into question my claim that investigators estimate that the jet fuel accelerated fires of the contents of this office building reached as high as 1800 degrees fahrenheit, please offer substantiating evidence to the contrary- then perhaps explain what substance your nit picking would have on the issues.
    Do not assume I am new at this and would allow you to pervert my statements, especially when I specifically stated we are not to consider the temperature in which jet fuel burns but that it accelerated the spread of fire to common office combustibles which burn much hotter than that- in claiming that was my belief even though I specifically stated otherwise, the only point you are making is your own willingness to troll with blatant dishonesty.
    I always find it outrageously silly when people stoop to such dishonesty to sell their position that the government is lying to the people- you only stand to gain a following of double digit IQ dimwits.

  366. Guest


    Since it was written "Word for words) in the Gov. 9/11 report what maximal temperature could reach of jet fuel fire and that it squarely deny your fantazy: -You only got what you deserved.
    That temperature was fully discussed and the scientists knew that they couldn't push it anyclose to the aberration you said.
    1st & above all, tell me the serial number of the steel with which those beams were made of? What's the number (& Or) letter?

    Talking 'about any link that would substantiate your claims, sorry but I have a heck of a an extensive (20Y+) formation in applied science. More specificatlly, in technology. Not the one who theorise but rather the one who bring a finished product on the shelves.

    And I've been many, many science-tech conventions for obvious reasons apart the simple "Shopping" for raw materials.
    More consisely, exposes given by scientists within their specialties.

    Maybe it is of a secondary importance to you to state: (Quote: -"twice free fall speed to come down", meaning at any moment one of the buildings descended at higher speed than "Free Fall".
    Which is ludicrous!

    As well, adding in another of comments: (Quote) -"Both asbestos AND gypsum were used in the fireproofing treatments of the towers". Thus correcting a first statement of yours here below where you stated the the fireproofing fireproofing treatments was based only on gypsum, omitting to mention the abestos.

    I'll tell you, if I go in an technical expose within a science convention and the speaker throw only one such aberration as those many you made, I know for a fact that in science & technology, peoples are not much tolerants toward such stupidities.

    You woudn't even keep the job for 3 month.
    Because : "BENEFICE OF DOUBT".
    You lost it and it ain't gonna be back.
    I don't go on websites that carries that sort of biased datas.

    Whenever you speak of science & techno, never ever make assumptions or boasting jokes.
    This ins't a joking matter.


  367. batvette

    I guess dishonesty is the only debate tactic you know.

    1. The temperature at which jet fuel burns is irrelevant, as its role in this scenario was NOT as the sole combustible but as an accelerant in quickly spreading the fire to other combustibles. I have stated this clearly, your pursuing this point is purely to troll.

    2. My exact statement as it appeared here is duplicated on that debunking 9/11 page, and backed with credible analysis.
    No further defense of my claim is thus necessary, certainly not to allow the obfuscation of it through paraphrasing by someone whose second language is the only one I am fluent in. In other words I can't even figure out where you're going with this now. My claim has been backed. Stop wasting my time.

    3. My statement originally was that FIREPROOFING (in General, I did not specify just the material used in the towers) was primarily made of gypsum with some binders. As I provided a link to, four types of fireproofing were used on the towers, one of which is in fact wholly consistent with my claim. Asbestos is NOT an ingredient in that fireproofing. There was nothing in error about my statement and it is not expected that my comments should have the scope of all possible fireproofing that could possibly be used.
    MOREOVER you have not explained what possible point you would be raising over nit picking this detail, it does not in any way include the suggestion that fireproofing was not knocked off the structure AS NO ONE DISPUTES and only further proves you are here to troll, not hold progressive discourse toward positive conclusions over topical issues.

    On that note I leave you to reply or not as you wish, I needn't further interact with someone who cannot respond to talking points without perverting them looking for any excuse to be insulting and argumentive.

    Have a splendid day, and watch you don't get in the way of one of our bombs should we find due cause to expend our aging stockpiles upon your country before their expiration dates are long overdue. I hear they really smart!

  368. Guest


    I now see what was the aberration you made in one of the erroneous datas you given in one of your comment here below.

    A frequent error for newbie in science & techno.
    Your are thus unfit to menton technical datas and I don't have any doubt that your website is misleading.

    On top of that, I'm lead to believe that this "Little Technical" error is not an error as such, was done intentionnally to mislead others.


  369. oddsrhuge

    The Upper stories of the North tower, start to fall away in all the videos I saw. The pulverizing of concrete starts happening immediately, in mid air.

    But yeah, I'm just raving...there is no law about the conservation of momentum. Silly me.

  370. Guest


    Once one failed in front of an audience, he's done.
    Once & for all.

    Case is closed.


  371. WiseGapist

    Hmm, weird that my reply didn't stay on here, pretty sure I saw it post^

    To stick to the doc (sorry^^) 9/11 was an inside job with or without explosives, the entire event was exploited by business and the politicians to get into Iraq (oil aside, you gotta love the military industrial complex at work) and even if you say 'they were protecting their interests'... so ****ing what, how can that ever be a moral justification for anything?

    ------------------ From this point on I am responding to batvette and veering away from the doc and climbing onto my soapbox so ignore the rest if you don't want political opinion by the bucket-load----------------

    Apologies in advance for the extreme length (but I say that to all the girls^^)

    Firstly, I am certainly not sitting on my high horse from a national perspective, I am English (and not proud of it)... I'd say we are one of the few countries with a more appalling foreign policy record than the states, and that's saying something! Though I must disagree with your assertion that the Iraq war was purely in defence of US interests rather than an aggressive expansion disguised as a defensive move.

    Many such as yourself who support the existing power regime criticize people on the left as being impractical and poking at the holes in the existing system whilst preaching on about unrealistic socialist Utopia that cannot be applied, whereas the system we live in now 'works' to some degree...
    - BUT -
    The system we have now does NOT work... Just look at the disgusting levels of financial inequality and social immobility. The corruption among the pro-capitalist kick-back politicians reveals itself clearly in policies of deregulation of industry in all areas with politicians and high level CEOs playing musical chairs between government and private industry. Police powers are creeping up on the back of anti-terror legislation and your rights as a citizen are being gradually eroded. And all of this coupled with consistently falling standards of free education (don't want rich people's kids getting stupid) and a filtered mass media dominated by Murdoch's foul ideology - All of the above is as true for the UK as it is for the US and tbh a number of European countries as well - Aaand all THAT is just what the current system is doing to people in its OWN country, forget all of the illegal wars, raping of resources and economic enslavement of the third world etc etc. - Every piece of that ranting paragraph is well documented, no speculation whatsoever, and yet people will stand there and still say 'communism failed but our capitalist system works.'

    I'm not saying that Marxist principles could ever be achieved in their entirety, but to roll over and say, 'oh well that's realpolitik, it's practical and realistic that we must be governed by a bunch of ***** who are obviously not working for the majority... Inequality is unavoidable, we need markets so free that big business can practically write the laws it works within' - It's easy to compare the existing system to a far left theoretical extreme n say it cannot be applied, but there are very clear solutions to all of the issues in my little rant that are ignored/avoided because the people making the decisions want to ever-solidify their position and keep fattening their wallets.

    The buck never stops with any US president, Bush did what he was told just like they all do... You flatter him by saying, 'he took the bull by the horns' when in reality he facilitated the deaths of his own people at home so he could go and kill many times that number abroad to increase the imperial strangle-hold..
    or as you put it, 'deal with the "problem" once and for all' ;)

    PS. Nice one on the bike and biking, more people should! (if they live somewhere relatively flat ofc :P)

  372. Guest


    Gosh! As eloquent as anyone could ever dream of!
    I guess that it does happens that you speak publically.

    Which makest he whole a little unfair.
    Good to see this in a once in a while.


  373. 911_was_an_Inside_Job

    I agreed all the way, bulls eye.

  374. batvette

    "nearly twice the time it would take to fall at free fall speed"

    There, are you happy now? I had no idea anyone would be such a (rhymes with 5th element on the periodic table) to assume that any force known to man could possibly speed up an object movement by the forces of gravity.

    of the four fireproofing treatments used, one contained asbestos and other materials, one contained gypsum and other materials, one contained both gypsum and asbestos, and one contained neither gypsum nor asbestos.

    You've yet to explain how arguing over whether the fireproofing was asbestos or gypsum, when it is clear claiming one, the other, or both were used would be correct, has any bearing on the undisputed fact substantial amounts of it was knocked off from the impact of the planes as well as was insufficient in original application.

    I did NOT, EVER, state that fireproofing contained ONLY gypsum. Not all fireproofing contains asbestos, and in fact that entire industry moved away from it at the time the towers were built and NYC banned its use in 1970! You're needlessly nitpicking over a statement that in substance was not even wrong. Some sources claim asbestos was used up to the 38th floor , some say the 64th. Most say asbestos was NOT an ingredient of any fireproofing above those floors except for a top coating in certain high traffic areas.

    I was employed in the office furniture industry for quite a few years and sold fireproof safes and file cabinets that do in fact contain 100% gypsum in their insulation. Gypsum in powdered form contains 1% water, which when heated is released to form a protective vapor preventing paper contents of such files and safes from igniting.

    "I don't go on websites that carries that sort of biased datas."

    Biased against your own erroneous views? Whoopee.

    You claim to be some "man of science". Produce a peer reviewed paper detailing an alternative explanation for the collapse of the WTC towers, as opposed to the NIST report and many other papers which follow the consensus on it.

    Asserting fringe views flying in the face of near unanimous consensus is hardly professional or scientific.

  375. Guest


    1) Down below, I read: -"Fireproofing material is primarily Gypsum- it's dust with some binders added".
    -In science & technology, when someone simply doesn't know about one thing, he mentions nothing but the word “Fireproofing material” and do drag others into misleading assumptions.

    As mentioned before, when someone give a technical expose, in public, there is no second essay. It's done once and adding corrections is a sigh of a filth. In your case, there was a few ones that were bad enough to justify my move.
    BTW, I did formulated a few insulating & fireproofing coatings some ~15 years back. In accordance with 2 international standards. And to be real frank with you, I simply copied a MSDS and only adjusted the formulation to get an ideal spraying requsted by the customer.
    The basic formulation I copied dated to some ~ 10 years.
    Based on these latter dates, can yiu figure out something of that?
    The big change came after abestos was banned all over the world.
    Many and most high rises are builded by North American Indians, or natives should I say.
    Because, there's high rises buildings all over the world…

    Oh! By since you mentioned the presence gypsum in furniture, you should be aware that in now days, we have micron sized alumina trihydrate which was proven to be more efficient.
    Will you tell me that one keep his couch that long?
    Ever heard of "Spacerite" produced by Alcoa who got bought by Alamatis a few years ago? Spacerite is in now days only one among all the other ones now produced all over the world.

    Humm... I read back all the back & forth, dancing comments you done, and I'm still convinced that you should find yourself another specialty to earn your living.

    The 2 main WTC #1 & 2 are not the "Big Challenge" to justify.
    I just couldn't care less if the fireproofing coating was stripped of from these of not.

    The real thing is that hurts USA benice of doubt is the crash of WTC building #7. You obviously understood that it's the best thing to keep peoples discussing about the WTC1 & 2.

    In the end, I dont want to discuss such serious technical matters with somone who does’t show the basic natural reflexes of peoples who do earn their living in science on an everyday basis.

    Proof of this? You didn't specified if it was 800 “Centigrade” or “F” in a few of your posts here below. You'd qualify that as "Nitpicking"?
    Even though, it is typical of peoples who deserve a minimal amount of trust and you don't deserve any, at all.

    You are misleading & in any events, you sure knows that all debris and factual proofs where seased to be sent abroad against the law.
    That was a crime except for peoples above the laws.

    The scientific publications your asking for are already existing.
    For peoples who are interested in facts and not that sort of “possibly” expression you use over & over.


  376. batvette

    "The scientific publications your asking for are already existing."

    sure they are. how ridiculous you say I am misleading then segueway straight into such a blatant lie.
    said papers do not exist, this is the problem with you "twoofers" you think asking pointless questions or grasping small anomalies stands as alternative hypothesis to the concensus.
    I'm not even going to get into the silliness of you nitpickng over details which seem to be the result of English not being your first language.
    all debris was sent abroad.... well gee I didn't know fresh kills landfill was such an exotic locale.
    you're off in your own little world, pierre.

  377. Guest


    If you'd have give yourself a break, you would have viewed "9/11: Explosive Evidence" along with the other ones right here on TDF.
    There are at least 4 that are quite technical.
    Again, I just couldn't care less one more fact you proven about your total incompetency in fireproofing.

    In regard to foreign language, just to see all of your aberrations here below, it become obvious that you don't have the necessary IQ to possess any. Another proof of a closed mind, reason why you are unfit for technology.

    All these comments of your's document your weak IQ.


  378. batvette

    Despite all your childish flaming, you haven't been right about one thing you've challenged me on.

    1. The fire did reach a temperature of 1800 degrees. (I needn't specify what scale that is.) The temperature that jet fuel burns at is irrelevant as it was an accelerant, not the sole source of combustibles.

    2. Some of the fireproofing used in the towers, and most likely the affected floor, DID contain gypsum but NOT asbestos.
    It's likely asbestos was not even used above the 38th or 64th floors, depending on several sources for data.

    3. The towers did not fall at free fall speed, taking nearly twice the time that would have been and seeing inner columns 40 stories tall stand close to a minute.

    And on these further claims of yours:

    1. one or more scientific, peer reviewed papers exist detailing a viable alternate theory for the collapse of the towers.

    2. "All of the debris and factual proofs..... sent abroad"

    Are wrong and/or blatant lies.

    Nobody in a professional capacity has written a research paper detailing an alternate theory for the towers' collapse and published it in a peer reviewed journal.

    All the debris was sent to the Fresh Kills landfill where forensic investigators combed through it with a fine tooth comb looking for bits of human body parts. Most of it remains buried there, some of the steel was sold to China as scrap metal.

    So bluster about my IQ and my intelligence in your broken English all you like. I am intelligent enough to recognize nobody came to this page to read about what we think of each other, but to see info related to 911. On that topic your posts are as silly as they get.

  379. Rorster

    Popular Mequackery! Utter crap!!!!

  380. Lumixian

    You'd think by now people would know that the NIST investigation is complete and utter bull, especially with all the work of architects and engineers but some people are just too stuck in their blind patriotism to see it.

    Anyway, let me get to my real point...

    Judging by this comment batvette made earlier:

    "Have a splendid day, and watch you don't get in the way of one of our bombs should we find due cause to expend our aging stockpiles upon your country before their expiration dates are long overdue. I hear they really smart! "

    He's probably some brand of warmongering nationalist racist who thinks the U.S. is the best country in the world and should be in the place of complete and total world dominance regardless of what anyone else thinks. Am I right batvette? You seemed to like mentioning how Pierre can barely speak English when I, and many others, read it perfectly fine. I dunno, somethings tells me, based on what you said earlier that you're not exactly the most humane individual and are highly subject to personal bias...but hey I may be wrong. I mean good, rational people advocate the use of bombs and the like, right?

    You've actually provided little to nothing in the way of actual concrete rebuttals, and if you think the only thing worth looking into as far as the actual politics of this goes is in peer-reviewed journals then you have a lot to learn about the complexity of government and its relation to the military industrial complex...

    Let's just say you're right (and you're not) and 9/11 was just as NIST said it was. Then why are we still at war with Iraq, and Afghanistan? Why are we about to attack Iran? You were never quite good at putting contextual pieces together were you?

    Just my .02 cents....

  381. miniatures-wargames com

    At least the conspiracy videos take the time to explain fully what happened.
    This documentary is just a couple of old guys talking.
    They simple give an explanation but never make any.

    The conspiracy theorists say the building went down in almost freefall.
    And that no building ever collapsed due to fire.

    The experts say 1100 degrees is enough to make the steel to lose half its strength.

    After this comment i did not watch the video any further.
    The experts give no proof, no answer to the question and make absolute no sense at all. If the producer or director of this movie still has a job it would surely surprise me.

  382. batvette

    "The conspiracy theorists say the building went down in almost freefall"

    That's wrong. It took almost twice that time and some sections stood for over 40 seconds.

    "And that no building ever collapsed due to fire."

    That's wrong too, many examples exist- but a mere fire isn't what happened. Funny they want to omit that pesky little detail about a quarter of a million pounds plus going 500 and 600 miles per hour and thousands of gallons of jet fuel! What the jet fuel did was ignite all the affected floors' existing combustibles immediately and fully, something that doesn't happen in a typical fire. It means that a lot more steel was subjected to the intense heat and all at once.

    "The experts say 1100 degrees is enough to make the steel to lose half its strength."

    I'm not sure but that sound about right. We're talking tempered structural steel, which is made several times stronger in manufacturing than normal carbon steel through a series of precise heating and cooling processes. For it to return to its former strength of mild steel doesn't take anything close to its melt point. More importantly the fires reached 1800 degrees.

    This incidentally is related to why modern automobiles can't just have front rear or side "clips' of bodywork welded onto them from parts cars like used to be commonplace. The sheet metal they use is tempered and would be damaged by welding.

    You think its implausible the fire affected the steel to the point of endangering the structure? That has no logical basis since all such structures are required to have fireproofing insulation applied to the steel. Yet the fireproofing in the WTC was found to be deficient in numerous inspections, AND had most of it knocked off by the huge shock of the plane's impact. So structures need fireproofing because without them they would be vulnerable to fire. This building had most of its fireproofing gone, leaving it vulnerable, then caught fire.

    Read this as many times or as slowly as you like until it sinks in, the whole line of argument that you don't believe the steel was weakened is a complete logical fallacy.

  383. batvette

    2 cents is about right, Didn't see a single piece of evidence within to support this conspiracy theory.

    "Let's just say you're right (and you're not) and 9/11 was just as NIST said it was. Then why are we still at war with Iraq, and Afghanistan? Why are we about to attack Iran? "

    It is not my responsibility to bring you up to speed on US foreign policy.

    As for my comment to Pierre, he is a troll who spewed inflammatory anti-US rhetoric just to bait people into arguing. The comment was facetious.

    Your reply was all ad hominem and had nothing of topical relevance. Since you re a conspiracy theorist who cannot be reasoned with I don't really care about what you think of me.

    You even groundlessly called me a racist? You are a reprobate and an inflamed, festering pustular dermatitis eruption on the posterior of all humanity.

  384. miniatures-wargames com

    Why is half of my post deleted?

  385. miniatures-wargames com

    I have also replied to my post.
    But why was more than half of my post deleted?

    This way it doesn't make any sense.
    There were no foul words in it, is it because I criticized the documentary?

  386. batvette

    If they were salient talking points not well addressed here or elsewhere by all means post them again. There are so many forums and avenues on the internet for CT's to express their beliefs, surely it would be counterproductive for anyone to censor your views merely for provocative, meaningful content not available elsewhere as this would indicate some possible coverup.

    (on many issues such as this, people believe the rest of the world would surely share their position if the world only knew what they did-this is generally a false belief)

    The rare instances where I have seen CT's in other forums have their posts deleted is when their activities approach trolling, like repeatedly asking the same pointless questions, etc. The moderations here seem to follow a consistent even handed standard as detailed in their comment policy linked above, check it out if you had content moderated.

    A debunker site contained a statement of advice I believe should be taken to heart by all involved:

    "Ask Questions... Recognize Answers."

  387. irmatvep


    "The evidence supporting involvement by the CIA, ISI (Pakistan),FBI Director, Elements within MOSSAD, Saudi Intelligence Service, US Air-force Top Brass, NORAD, Dick Cheney, George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Larry Silverstien in the attacks of Sept 11th is profound. The American public and the world have been played."

    My question to you is this. If elements of the CIA, FBI, US Air Force Top Brass, NORAD, etc. were involved as you state as if its the unequivocal truth, why is it that more the 10 years after the fact not a single whistleblower has come forward to spill the beans? If 9/11 really was an inside job you'd think there would be at least a few defectors from the evil cabal of elites by now.

  388. Matteo Alchini

    This documentary doesn't present a shred of convincing scientific evidence to support the official thesis. It merely seeks to discredit those presenting alternative theses by constantly referring to them as "conspiracy theorists" and "20-somethings."

  389. manfruss

    I don't mean to be callous, however, only 3000 people died in 9/11... yet 800,000 died in Rwanda. Why do the attacks on our monetary-market system get more coverage and action than the real tragedies in life. I guess the only reason that Central African issue wasn't a bigger deal to the world, is because those 3000 in the WTC had more capital than all of Rwanda put together.

  390. Bryan Lindsay

    not true coz my aunt pulls a plough in rwanda for 17 cents a day.

  391. batvette

    No "truther" has ever published any qualified, comprehensive "alternative theses" detailing the actions of any would be culprits or the mechanics of how the towers were brought down by a "controlled demolition".
    All they have done is mock the official story and bring up straw men, red herrings and other items of fallacious logic that attempt to poke holes in the thorough and exhaustive NIST study.
    That's not scientific. As for your take on their portrayal, well if the foo ****s, wear it. Most 9/11 conspiracy theorists are 20 somethings, disillusioned with the fortunes of their future, indoctrinated by their fellow discontented leftists to stupidly blame George W. Bush for all the lost opportunities enjoyed by previous generations that they will never see, not recognizing all they are really doing is ingesting sour grapes and peeing into a toilet they will have to live the rest of their lives in.
    They are at that peculiar age when they think they know everything and everyone else is corrupt, ignorant or senile.
    But back to this business about not presenting a shred of convincing scientific evidence to support the official thesis... excuse me? Why does it need to do THAT when all the scientific evidence is in the thesis itself? Kindly refer to the particular section and points within the NCSTAR report that you would like to dispute, if the NIST FAQs pages don't already address your concerns I'm sure I can locate some expert analysis that will.

  392. Jamie

    Anyone that thinks 9/11 was not an inside job is dumb or lazy and never looked into it.So many comments saying it was not a fauls flag makes me belive there all dumb our the government was the reason for these comments.Read 9/11timeline[dot]net if after that your not 100% sure it was a fauls flag I feel sorry for your low inteligence.And I'm not saying I'm the smartest person or even close,but I can see facts and the fact is it was an inside job with Mossads help inm some way.

  393. whatever27

    As soon as the government got away with the JFK assasination they knew they could get away with anything...


    despite ALL THE EVIDENCES people are still arguing !!! how can you dare deny scientific proofs ???? seriously ?

    well now i came up with a conclusion : people don't want the truth !!!!! it's not that they don't know that their gouvernement is (also) curropted , and is manipulated for the sake of israelis .... but for them , ignoring things is much MUCH easier ...

    come On , wake up please !

  395. whatwaysup

    Watching History channel/popularMechanics/NationalGeographic/bbc Official Theory proponents hack their way toward creatioNIST 911CommissionTHEORY La La, where critical thinking dies from too much make-up, or desire to please as stools of 911Deep State SCAD ENTERPRISE [FalseFlag] - dynamics of COVER-UP ; one is struck by the terror of 911 in its rawest sense. the death of science. The death of imagination and curiosity. The death of FREE thought and intuition where definition of EXPLOSIVE DEMOLITION, by flick of LS-DYNA secret computer algorithm, changes into 'Thermal Expansion.con':Pinocchio Sunder's "how to bring a complex 81 vertically columned 47 storied steel framed high rise into a pile of nanothermate riddled dust piles in 6.5 seconds:2.25secs At FREE FALL., heralds the new low in propaganda', as if these idiot spokespeople of the neoconazioNIST transmutation have anything but scorn toward 'conspiracy theorists' to offer. These are editorial decisions, programs playing with tactile fact as if their sterile agnotological utterings would or could change the truth of MELTED steel and PULVERIZED concrete and FREE FALL . Areas of concern urgently requiring International investigation as a WAR CRIME.

  396. spreadthetruth_peacenlove

    One of the biggest evidence of 9/11 was an inside job is its on the dollar bill, just youtube it.

    P.s Al Qaeda Doesn't Exist if you would do some research please.

    “The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off.” ? Gloria Steinem

  397. Warren Gates

    This documentary brought to you by the History Channel; bringers of:

    -Aliens built the pyramids
    -Sasquatches are plausible
    --Sasquatches may fly in UFOs underwater and inhabit a hidden civilisation.
    -The Lochness Monster exists
    -The world will end in 2012
    -Bible stories should be taken literally
    -Nostradamus predicted the future, e.g., by writing about locusts, he was actually talking about WW2 airplanes

  398. fender24

    We got proves there were explosions in ALL three WTC buildings before they collapsed. You deny these explosions happened
    when many people and videos prove it?

    NIST claim there are no eye witness testimony about the explosions. Check out Barry Jennings then.

    If this is not a inside job. WHY wont the media show the real footage of building 7 collapse? why lie about the bombs if you're not the one behind it. They lie about so many things. You got to stop listen to the same experts that is payed by you're government.

  399. batvette

    Well the worst kept secret ever is you can fold it so George Washington's head is a mushroom, so we can now reliably document our first President was a medical wonder, going through his whole life with a mushroom where most other people have a head. That is if we accept your reference as valid.

  400. batvette

    People claim they heard explosions before the buildings collapsed. Why is that unexpected and what does it prove?

  401. batvette

    "911 was an inside job according to people who put their careers on the line. "

    First of the numbers of AE911 truth represent less than one percent of people in their fields, actually about 1/10th of one percent of the number of civil engineers and licensed architects in America since the criteria they established was ANY field of engineering degree.

    Secondly yeah sure they put their careers on the line, so bold not one of them published a peer reviewed research paper in a professional journal outlining their alternate theory. (Jones et. al. paper on nanothermite notwithstanding, it did not assert that was the cause of the collapse)

    You people really seem to lack the ability of self reflection to see how ridiculous promoting this agenda leaves you looking. It's not healthy, and as it's an ugly human nature for people to enjoy ridiculing those who mistake their own ignorance for higher enlightenment, it just stands to create more hostility and resentment in an already harsh cruel world.

    There is no getting around if this happened as you people assume you'd have thousands of people who would have key positions in the execution, easily reaching tens of thousands if you include the coverup. These people would have to take their secret to the grave, and have no conscience whatsoever as they helped destroy their own country. Why would they do such a thing? Money?

    How much did Dick Cheney profit from Halliburton stock performance after the Iraq invasion? About enough to pay about 10 people to sell out their country and take a secret that big to their grave.

    LOL, doesn't add up, never mind this leaves Cheney broke so no reason to do it.

    The excuses I hear are like "Cheney paid them off". (thousands?) "All the people in on it are plain evil like Cheney". "They are afraid the government would kill them if they told".

    Which only supports the claim made by some that 9/11 conspiracy theory requires mental illness to promote. Persecutory delusional syndrome sufferers believe their morals are untarnished while everyone in the world around them has theirs easily corrupted, bought for a pittance. And only they have courage, everyone else is "timid" and "lacks gumption", as well mistaking their ignorance as being more informed than the "sheeple".

  402. fender24

    Explosions which weakened the structure in all wtc buildings and caused the collapse of twin towers and building 7 the missing factor which is ignored. The government say no explosion occurred on
    that day. Explosions comming from ground level not from the aircraft. explosions was registered before and after planes hit.

  403. fender24

    1 The Twin Towers were destroyed faster than physics can explain (at free fall speed "collapse").
    2 They underwent mid-air pulverization and were turned to dust before they hit the ground.
    3 The protective bathtub was not significantly damaged by the destruction of the Twin Towers.
    4 The rail lines, the tunnels and most of the rail cars had only light damage.
    5 The WTC mall survived well, witnessed by Warner Bros. Road Runner and friends.
    6 The seismic impact was minimal, far too small based on our comparison with the Kingdome controlled demolition.
    7 The Twin Towers were destroyed from the top down, not bottom up.
    8 The demolition of WTC7 was whisper quiet and the seismic signal was no greater than background noise.
    9 The upper 80 percent, approximately, of each tower was turned into fine dust and did not crash to the earth.
    10 The upper 90 percent, approximately, of WTC7 was turned into fine dust and did not crash to the earth.
    11 File cabinet with folder dividers survived.
    12 Office paper was densely spread throughout lower Manhattan, unburned, often along side burning cars.
    13 Vertical round holes were cut into buildings 4, 5 and 6, plus a cylindrical arc into Bankers Trust and into Liberty street in front of Bankers Trust.
    14 All planes except top secret missions were ordered down until 10:31 a.m. (when only military flights were allowed to resume), after both towers were destroyed, and only two minutes after WTC 1 had been destroyed.
    15 Approximately 1,400 motor vehicles were towed away, toasted in strange ways, during the destruction of the Twin Towers.
    16 The order and method of destruction of each tower minimized damage to the bathtub and adjacent buildings.
    17 Twin Tower control without damaging neighboring buildings, in fact all seriously damaged or destroyed buildings had a WTC prefix, and no others.
    18 The north wing of WTC 4 was left standing, neatly sliced from the main body which virtually disappeared.
    19 The WTC1 and WTC2 rubble pile was far too small to account for the mass.
    20 The WTC7 rubble pile was too small and contained a lot of mud.
    21 Eyewitness testimony about toasted cars, instant disappearance of people by "unexplained" waves, a plane turning into a mid-air fireball, electrical power cut off moments before WTC 2 destruction, and the sound of explosions.
    22 There were many flipped cars in the neighborhood of the WTC complex near trees with full folliage.

    * The possibility that a technology exists. Since invention of the microwave for cooking in 1945 and laser beam in 1955*, commercial and military development of beam technology has proceeded apace, so use of high-energy beams are likely

  404. batvette

    you've lost me here, how would eyewitnesses like Barry Jennings be able to distinguish explosions from charges planted that would weaken structures and ones from a building engulfed in an inferno (or in his case, sounds from huge debris chunks from a larger falling building hitting the one he was in)
    Jennings only described explosions after the planes hit. They are consistent with the first tower that collapsed. He then proceeds to evacuate from the building but is caught in the stairwell in bldg 7 when the other tower collapsed and more damage is caused to the building.
    All of this is quite simple and has been gone over by others again and again.

  405. futureunkown

    I see only talking heads giving their opinions of what happened, little or no science backing their theories, it seems to me that the conspiracy theorist have a more compelling case. Weak effort on Popular Mechanics park. Insider trading not addressed ? Building 7 collapse explanation was a joke at best. Only convincing if you really want to believe.

  406. kim harris

    I am glad to see this. There is so much garbage going around. People seem to want to blame Bush and America for this. Crazy!

  407. kim harris

    Haha. And just how did you look into it? Michael Moore? Every person I know who is highly educated and knowledgeable does not believe this crap, and all the liberal freaks who struggle with jobs and the little things in life believe it because in their free time, instead of building business, they listen to phoney news, and liberal propaganda.

  408. batvette

    "6 The seismic impact was minimal, far too small based on our comparison with the Kingdome controlled demolition."

    The towers were not the Kingdome- but really aren't you really providing an argument that this was not a controlled demolition?

  409. futureunkown

    Kevin Ryan : A New Standard of Deception, while a little dry seems well researched, backed by facts and physics. Then adds a lot of insight into who these investigating teams are and their back ground.Information and study of know facts,leads to many questions and more informed opinions.

  410. Ward Whitehead

    Pretty weak and biased effort to debunk 9/11 Truthers. A few things that stood out to me were the comparison to Pearl Harbor conspiracy theory instead of what we KNOW WAS a false-flag operation, the Gulf of Tomken incident which was used as a justification for the Vietnam war. Also no mention of the mechanism of collapse of the super-strong central cores of towers 1 and 2. Finally, although it may be possible that nothing remained of the aluminum fuselage and wings after hitting the Pentagon and the field in Pennsylvania at 400 mph the same could not be said for the massive titanium engines yet the documentary failed to address the absence of engine wreckage at those sites. The program also did not even speak to, let alone debunk the (LIHOP) theory that the government knew that attacks were coming but purposely did nothing to prevent them.

  411. Brent Bomia

    I am a political science student, and I also play as an investigative journalist and live muisc DJ on a northern CA non-profit/free speech radio station. I mostly play various documentaries (a few pulled fom this amazng site) which have been audio recorded. After watching this, I can honestly state that the "facts" the "experts" use to refute the 'truthers' seems, at best, to be shallow fact one response was (the experts denying the truthers claims about the demolition idea vs the official account) " They have simply overlooked the facts." THATS ALL THEY STATE! wtf? To me, giving a 3rd grade response does not convince a fairly intelligent person who can CRITICALLY THINK - If I refute the idea that 2+2 = 4, and I state the reason is baically,"Because I said so" - would you believe me? So, it should come as no shock when our "experts" use 1st grader tactics - THAT ONE ONE IN ONE HUNDRED could possibly be convinced that there was not more going on than our Govt. would lead us (or try to anyway) to believe......It's like the Repubicans using GOD as a way to hook the religious people into voting for them EVEN THOUGH THE WORD GOD DOES NOT EXIST IN OUR US CONSTITUTION! GLAD to see so many not falling for the Republican rhetoric... REMEMBER IN NOV FOLKS -hey remember who was in office when 9/11 happened? DONT FORGET THIS NOV 2012!

  412. AddNewComment1

    just because someone wrote something and put it on the internet does not make it true

  413. Tim Trudell

    its kinda like a choose your own adventure world

  414. Tim Taylor

    The people behind this video are out to discredit doubters. I say that because these clever people themselves are not so gullible as to blindly accept the governments explanations. And yet they laugh at the doubters. Therefore they are not credible.

  415. Tim Taylor

    Some people are biased and want to blame Bush. Others look at the evidence and see that it points to Bush. That is not crazy. Its called logic.

  416. Tim Taylor

    Do you really think that there are no credible doubters? The FBI investigated JFK, RFK and MLK assassinations. In all three cases they reported a lone nut left a gun at the scene. Oswald, Sirhan and Ray. If a person sees a pattern here, are they disoriented? Or are they using logic?

  417. Tim Taylor

    The sound of a falling building is a rumble like thunder. The sound of an explosion is a crash like lightening.

  418. Tim Taylor

    I agree. The History Channel is not credible.

  419. Tim Taylor

    There can only be two types of debunkers. Dumb or part of the false flag operation.

  420. Tim Taylor

    Yes. And the producers of this documentary can not see their own lack of fairness.

  421. Phea

    It amazes me that some actually believe 9/11 was planned,executed, and covered up by the same folks who couldn't even "find", WMD evidence in Iraq.

    To believe that out of all the people who would have to be involved, not one had a crisis of conscience before or after is absurd. The only plausible explanation is that everyone involved are full-blown psychopaths, capable of planning and committing mass murder, which goes beyond absurd and becomes laughable.

  422. Daniel Blankslate Chambers

    Thank you for actually having logic behind what you say. I personally just want to know the truth, and if any opinion I might have about 9-11 is dis-proven with coordinated logic, I'll accept that. Although, I do find some of the discrepancies with the whole incident a little peculiar, and I appreciate when people go in depth at explaining why they are peculiar. I just think the notion of being scared to question what you hear, and especially the motives behind why our government chooses to engage in wars is missing the point. Were SUPPOSED to question EVERYTHING we hear!

  423. batvette

    That's very special, but in all the video clips with audio of this event not one depicts any sounds which resemble explosions.

  424. batvette

    What do those have to do with 9/11?

  425. batvette

    "Were SUPPOSED to question EVERYTHING we hear!"

    Only if you have reason to and the qualifications to recognize it.
    Do you really think you are supposed to question everything you hear? Can you imagine a kindergarten class full of children who don't do anything they are told, and instead just keep saying "why do we have to do this?" And the basis for their questioning is purely their own ignorance.

    For reference, the other user whose "logic" you applauded made this comment:

    "There can only be two types of debunkers. Dumb or part of the false flag operation."

    A comment which does suggest some form of delusional disorder.
    He believes anyone who disagrees with him is of inferior intelligence or is of low moral character.

    Such incredible arrogance is typical of persecutory delusions.

  426. Tim

    I have seen a clip that has an explosion in the audio.

  427. Tim

    There are biographies of J Edgar Hoover that depict him as a "full-blown psychopath".

  428. Tim

    You surely do not mean that there is no conservative propaganda.

  429. Tim

    Bush's grandfather Prescott, was censured for illegally doing business with the Nazis. Bush's father is a liar. He says that he cannot remember where he was when JFK was assassinated. Yet there is a FBI report that he called the Dallas FBI office that same day. Bush himself is a liar when he says no one imagined that terrorists would attack using planes as missiles.

  430. Tim

    Personal attacks in a debate are not helpful.

  431. Tim

    When a bomb goes off it makes a sound called an explosion. If there are no bombs at the site there would be no explosions. When a structure falls it makes a rumbling (not explosive) sound. When a building is demolished by experts they use timed explosives.
    So: If the towers collapsed from fire (as claimed by the gov) the sound would be a rumble. If they were demolished by experts there would be the sound of explosions.

  432. Tim

    The assassination of JFK was not the work of beginners. The knew they could get away with it before they did it.

  433. Tim

    LBJ went against his own Warren Commission when he later stated that he thought JFK Dallas was a conspiracy. That is not whistle blowing. But it is a first step. There is no second step because LBJ soon died.
    However, I am also puzzled that there have been no defectors from the 9/11 elites.

  434. Tim

    I suspect the producer was well-paid for this documentary.

  435. Wild Wind

    So much noise here. Let me zero in on few key points... What witnesses saw the planes crash into DC, or PA? Were black boxes found on either site? If not, what explanation - esp for PA which was a run of the mill plane crash. Why no debris?

    One documentary claims the govt wanted to kill a govt group residing in WTC (infighting). Any further info on that? Also claimed the planes were switched and real planes safely landed (everone warned to keep quiet)

    I have doubts with conspiracy theory due to incredibly complicated nature of pulling off such a stunt.

    Lack of combustion at Pentagon is one point I find most bizarre.


  436. Lito Magnanimous

    I wasn't going to reply at at, that is until i saw your comment. You shouldn't post anything while you're High sweetheart or maybe you should be taking Medication ? Whichever it is you are a deranged lunatic. You're going to locate some expert analysis that will ? I have a better idea, locate a psychiatrist because you sound Deluded and you need help.

  437. Lito Magnanimous

    One person posting half the comments on this link "Batshit" is his/her name.
    It is trying desperately to convince people the Popular Mechanics, NIST, Government story is 100% true ! Such a pathetic attempt to manipulate facts and discredit others points of view. Batshit (batvette), whatever your name is, just go away, no one give a rats ass what you think. You TROLL !

  438. Tyler Gonzalez

    icic but our gov has great power and technology that many people are unaware of and when its combined with the power of money and greed anything can be accomplished and the truth can be kept. If someone won't buy in to what the gov wants to happen then the gov will find people who will and If people are telling the truth that contradicts the gov, the gov can easily pay, kill, or hire someone to stop it. The gov has way more say on what information is available to the people. They can tailor any information they want so it aligns with what they want the majority of people to believe and as long as they have that they'll be safe against people who want the full truth. Theres many brillant people in this world and the gov has the power to obtain them for there use so no matter how hard people fight for the truth its not gonna happen the gov is too smart and people are too f*c*ing lazy to do the research and learn the concepts behind what there explanations are for "debunking" info as true or false. Peoples natural instinct is to believe the experts but how hard would it be for the gov to disguise a person as a nongov official and have them hire these experts and pay them to defend the gov side of the story. NOT VERY HARD. So in summary using money, blackmail, and highly advanced technology anything can be possible and the gov is in the best position to do so because they represnt us as americans and the most logical thing to do is believe what they say and to not ask questions.

  439. page8

    alot of people argue for and against the conspiracy theories, lets also not forget who has the most motive here. As time goes on the truth will be more clear once you can put world events in perspective, you just might realize all along that the government has been using everyone for their backdoor plans. Let the government fight their own wars and leave the people out of it. I dont see an invasion or any threat of an invasion only radicals telling everyone what to do or what to believe. If you notice, ever since the great depression there has been one event after another after another leading to the policies we have today, i would expect once the afghanistan situation is over there will conveniently be another crisis for yet another political agenda.

  440. Vaptorious

    I concur with your comments. However, I think it's always best to leave Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/etc. out of the discussion (to the extent possible) because so many people still cannot imagine those guys as evil-incarnate. I speak from my own personal experience. I voted for GWB (twice). I now believe that 9/11 was an inside job. There is also a growing laundry-list of dastardly deeds that I now suspect George HW Bush may very well be guilty of. And yet—I STILL have trouble with the notion that his son (George W.) was a willing participant of the 9/11 operation.

    That's not to say that he wasn't. I'm simply saying that the sheer number of people who have a hard time believing that he could be part of something like that, use that as an excuse (often, subconsciously) to tune-out any notions of the official story being complete B.S.

    The official story is B.S. Bush may be guilty as sin. Ditto to Cheney, Rumsfeld and the rest of that administration. Nevertheless, the polarization effect of the Democrat-Republican charade is very strong. For instance—everyone who thinks that Bush is complicit in mass-murder of innocent Americans must ALSO accept that Barack Obama is guilty of continuing to cover it up and conceal the truth from the American people.

    There are very few people who have the intellectual wherewithal to understand that BOTH parties MUST be party to this massacre, since BOTH have controlled the levers of power since 9/11—and our government continues to lie to us. I don't know if Bush is guilty, but I'm not under any illusion that he couldn't be. I wonder if many of those who are sure of his guilt (perhaps deservedly) are willing to accept that Obama is no less evil.

    Peace, love and truth...

  441. Vaptorious

    That is a fair question. My general thoughts:

    1. There HAVE been whistleblowers that have come forward (e.g. Sibel Edmonds). The fact that they don't get interviewed on 60-minutes doesn't negate their existence. It is not correct to say that "not a single whistleblower has come forward."
    2. As far as defectors—it's hard for me to imagine someone who willingly participates in such a horrendous act suddenly having a change of heart. Any who did would have to accept that speaking out will get them killed, or legally implicate them in the event. Perhaps there are a handful of these people. In those cases, I imagine that there are contingency plans in place to deal with them (e.g., one-car accidents, false back-stories planted, etc.).
    3. Compartmentalization is very effective. Many people may have participated without realizing it until later. Many may still be unaware. Many who wake-up and realize that they may have played a role have to then contend with the fact that speaking out would end their careers, alienate them from all their peers, and lead to a life filled with ridicule and danger.
    4. Many participants may justify it through some tortured logic or bizarre moral rationale… or may be under some "spell" (i.e. brainwashing or demonic possession). If you think that's hocus-pocus nonsense—you're wrong.

  442. batvette

    2 posts, all ad hominem, can't bother to refute anything I have posted.
    Your pitiful lack of debate skills does not make me a troll nor support a case for an inside job on 9/11.
    If other points of view were valid they could not be so easily discredited.

  443. batvette

    Which is not consistent with the number and size of charges required to implode structures of this size.
    And I have not even seen "an" explosion depicted in any video. Only things consistent with the official story.

  444. batvette

    What science? Has AE911 truth submitted a research paper to a peer review professional journal refuting the NIST report findings?
    That's how scientists do things. They don't gather up a bunch of people in unrelated fields asking pointless questions. (Lynn Margolis? Why is she in their videos at all?)

  445. batvette

    "esp for PA which was a run of the mill plane crash"

    A plane flying at top speed full throttle in a dive into the ground is not a run of the mill plane crash.

    "I have doubts with conspiracy theory due to incredibly complicated nature of pulling off such a stunt."

    Common sense and a good grasp on reality. That's refreshing.

    "Lack of combustion at Pentagon is one point I find most bizarre."

    No there was a raging inferno in the immediate area, so much that the above floors collapsed from the heat.

    You know that fire weakens structural steel leading to collapse thingy.

  446. batvette

    To #2:

    The whole premise is still rather absurd. This goes wider in scope than the silence of those who actually participated, you'd have to credit "the government" with having an absolutely perfect candidate interview process, in that everyone they saw as a potential participant took them up on it and they did not misjudge anyone who had anything to later divulge on it.

    #3 I don't think keeping ANY job would be enough to quiet my conscience over 3000 murders and the utter destruction of many aspects of my way of life. Could you do that?

    This is the only way this conspiracy theory gets wings, if you can paint the conspirators as some fictional fantasy evil bogeymen who are insanely ruthless with utterly no remorse.

    Thus it will always remain a fantasy.

  447. looknclick

    The proponents of conspiracy have more factual support than the dismissers.

    The dismissers basically say - it is hard to believe our own government could do such a thing to their own people. And, in case If the government did so, we are all kind of guilty for supporting such government. This is why it didn't happen that way.

    The proponents ask questions and compare events to known physical laws and historical facts. The logic is less and less popular hobby in US.

    The bottom line: if that was done by US government - we probably would never find out, because all possible evidence was quickly destroyed.

    If the muslim radicals did this all by themselves, they were lucky beyond any believe. If you call death a luck.

  448. batvette

    "The bottom line: if that was done by US government - we probably would never find out, because all possible evidence was quickly destroyed."

    This claim is utterly preposterous yet it's repeated in various forms by most truthers, who want people to believe it to justify their accusations made entirely without tangible evidence.

    The debris at ground zero took thousands of workers 9 months to remove. Many thousands of photos were taken. The debris was sifted through with a fine tooth comb looking for human remains. The steel was all cataloged and warehoused and photographed before some was sold as scrap to China(who would certainly have motivation to produce any evidence it it were apparent) and the rest sits in a landfill at Fresh Kills NY.

    No I'm afraid this "all the evidence was destroyed" is not a belief with any basis in reality. Of course when you have a "wish" sandwich everything is a wish.

  449. looknclick

    Your statement purely based on your belief. Can you imagine someone executing jews in gas chambers to keep his job? Or it is a fantasy too?

  450. batvette

    Godwin's Law FTW, and as typical, wholly absurd as there is no atmosphere in America today which is consistent with WW2 Germany's fascism.
    Nice attempt to suggest I am a holocaust denier though. I guess there weren't many directions to go with an argument, it's not like you could be expected to come back and describe all this "evidence" you were alluding to.

  451. BIGDAWG18

    From: Lito
    "One person posting half the comments on this link "Batshit" is his/her name.
    It is trying desperately to convince people the Popular Mechanics, NIST, Government story is 100% true ! Such a pathetic attempt to manipulate facts and discredit others points of view. Batshit (batvette), whatever your name is, just go away, no one give a rats ass what you think. You TROLL !"

    Evidently this "Batshit" poster has cramped your style. What I've seen is a rational, informed adult factually destroying a lot of silly conspiracy theorists. He makes no claim that "the Popular Mechanics, NIST, Government story is 100% true" but rather that the CTs are 95% BS. The fact is your frustration with this poster far exceeds your ability to counter his facts and logic. Perhaps you should take your own advice 'cause no rational adult gives a rats ass what YOU think.

  452. BIGDAWG18

    You are kidding, right? Anyone with proof that 9/11 was an inside job would be inundated with speaking tour and book writing offers which would make his or her current career unnecessary.

  453. BIGDAWG18

    I've read the past year of posts here and found you arguments to be logical, factual and thoughtful. I also found your patience with what can only be described as rabid dogs to be almost saint-like. Nice work and thank you.

  454. looknclick

    Holocaust is just an example how something which is very hard to imagine, still happened. Many people that time didn't believe it was going on. If you read carefully what I had originally said: "The bottom line: if that was done by US government". "If" is the key word. There's no proof government was involved. But there are too many unexplained issues which no one from government seemed to care to explain. 3 steel buildings went down with no real explanation why, especially the third one. If you read the official report it makes not too much sense from physics point of view. The original pictures from the Pentagon site show no evidence of the plane hit the building. No video recordings makes it at least strange. Things like that. Questions without answers. So the point I was making, you can believe one way or another, but there's no 100% certainty one way or another. Cheers.

  455. batvette

    ". But there are too many unexplained issues which no one from government seemed to care to explain. 3 steel buildings went down with no real explanation why, especially the third one."

    Your willful ignorance is not the government's responsibility to "explain". What on earth do you mean no explanation why? What do you think the NIST report is about? I can't believe that people like you are walking around without falling into holes in the ground or something with things like this going on in their heads.

  456. batvette

    Thank you for the thoughtful comment.

    While I'm accused by a few of being paid by the government to merely post my opinions, part of the motivation is that we've still got young Americans in harm's way fighting the people that did this and telling the world we did this to ourselves is not going to make their mission any easier and would be exploited by our rivals worldwide.

  457. looknclick

    Just as I though, when you run out of arguments, you start using personal escapades. IT works only to certain point.

    As to explaining, that is necessary to do, even in the scale of events much smaller than this, for example Benghazi, and absence of which is creating general sense on mistrust.

  458. batvette

    Run out of arguments? Please. The ad hominem was certainly not out of line, how could you possibly believe no there was no explanation given for the towers' collapse?

    The NIST report is a comprehensive EXPLANATION.

  459. abakusss

    Are you guys who support a 9/11 conspiracy theory also members of the pro gun lobby.
    That would be consistent thinking.

    p.s I am not in USA thank goodness so I won't get shot by some clown carrying a bazooka he is not competent to use safely.

  460. sleepytigress

    yep next target is Iran using the same proven lie, that Iran is concealing WMD's. And this from the USA who, with their best buddies Israel, hold the greatest cache in the world.

    I believe Bush is capable of complicity in the bombing, this the man who led us to and illegal war in Iraq knowing full well that Saddam had fulfilled demand to destroy uranium caches etc. His argument, (supported by my country's Tony Blair) And as for the so-called Humanitarian crap , he has left that country is a much much worse state than Saddam, mind you we only hear about "our boys" those who chose military life and thus went to war as soldier. They died for their country, or did they? no they died for a lie, No mention of the thousand of innocent Iraqi civilians who were 'murdered' because of this lie, nor do we hear about the predominantly innocent Iraqi's who were illegally held and tortured in Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib.. oh yes Bush and his cronies strenuously denied that, so what else...

  461. batvette

    "knowing full well that Saddam had fulfilled demand to destroy uranium caches etc."

    If that were even remotely true why were UN inspectors in the country right up until we declared our intent to invade?

  462. Ryan Han

    Oh no, not you again. So , who do you really work for?, CIA, FBI, BS,...? I see you everywhere on different forums defending anything government does.

  463. MableSpam

    Seemingly biased documentary. You cannot talk about evidence and science without covering Architects and Engineers for 9/11.

  464. mn_skatepunk

    Conspiracy Theorists are some of the most ridiculous, insane and delusional people on the planet. Conspiracy theories aren't theories at all. A theory is something proven. A scientist comes up with a theory...and proceeds to prove it wrong. Then presents it to other give them a shot at proving it wrong. If it stands up to hundreds of different tests...then it is accepted, Conspiracy theories on the other hand..are just questions. Investigate 9/11, demand answers. 9/11 was probably the most investigated incidents to ever happen. The research has been done and the facts are there. Taking an event like what happened that day, and twisting it to fit your paranoid, delusional agenda makes me sick. The fact of the matter is it REALLY happened, it killed REAL people, it tore apart REAL families. The fact that sick people like Alex Jones are capitalizing on turning the deaths of thousands of people into an industry of paranoia makes me want to puke.

  465. Marky Mark

    The head weapons inspector told everyone who would listen before 911 that Iraq had no WMD's the FBI told Bush and his staff this and when they couldn't be convinced to lie they got people to investigate who would "cherry pick" information to make it look like Iraq had WMD's. Bush and his staff lied to Congress, the UN, the American people and the world about WMD's so they could invade Iraq, secure the oil, install a puppet government and put permanent bases there so we could invade other countries in the region in the future. Do I think 911 was an inside job? No but I do think that Bush and his staff knew or should have known an attack was about to happen. they were either lying or too stupid to figure things out either of which isn't good.

  466. Marky Mark

    Actually there were lots of witnesses to the plane hitting the Pentagon.

  467. Marky Mark

    To suggest 911 was a false flag operation is out there to say the least. It would have to involve thousands of people. 3 people can keep a secret if 2 of them are dead.

  468. Marky Mark

    Does the assertion that George Washington had a mushroom for a head not seem plausible to you? LOL

  469. Marky Mark

    Really LOL

  470. Marky Mark

    If 911 was an inside job it would have taken the cooperation of thousands of people. To say that thousands of people could be responsible for the deaths of thousands of people and not one of them had their conscience eat away at them until they told someone not even on their death bed is crazy. 3 people can keep a secret if 2 of them are dead.

  471. SGAR

    Correction: A Theory is NOT something proven...a theory is the result of making a hypothesis (educated guess), and then your answer based on what you know SO FAR... You experiment and question in order to prove if a theory is indeed correct or not... you ask QUESTIONS regarding a theory in the hopes to find the truth... The reason why it is a theory and not a fact is because it is NOT proven... I am not arguing in favor of 911 conspiracy theories, but they are indeed theories and that is why they are being put forward. Because there are many unanswered questions. It was a horrible tragedy, and there is no doubt that those towers fell and innocent people were killed, but there is still missing information. And we (the general public) may never have access to that information.

  472. Lito Magnanimous

    Aw what's the matter butthurt18 you gonna cry ? You are one stupid mother F'er. Time to go back to school dullard and pick up a physics class while your at it. Anytime you'd like to debate the "factS" about 9/11 make that jump LITTLE BOY ! How does that sound to you BUTTHURT18 ?

  473. Lito Magnanimous

    And you're 100% sure those people we invaded

    Afghanistan, Iraq are 100% responsible ? And you're absolutely right about the fact that young Americans are in harms way and their mission would be a hell of a lot easier if they were never sent there in the first place. Who runs Al-Qaeda ? Try a simple search on your computer and ask yourself who was charged with this heinous crime ? And you can blow that ad hominem crack right out your hole you hypocrite, This is your comment below.
    [A comment which does suggest some form of delusional disorder.
    He believes anyone who disagrees with him is of inferior intelligence or is of low moral character.
    Such incredible arrogance is typical of persecutory delusions.]
    Nice attack on his character calling him delusional to discredit his comment. Play it fair or go take a bath !
    and what evidence have you brought forth ?
    Well lets see shall we ?
    B)"I have doubts with conspiracy theory due to incredibly complicated nature of pulling off such a stunt."

    C) You people really seem to lack the ability of self reflection to see how ridiculous promoting this agenda leaves you looking. It's not healthy, and as it's an ugly human nature.

    D)Which only supports the claim made by some that 9/11 conspiracy theory requires mental illness to promote. Persecutory delusional syndrome.

    E) Most 9/11 conspiracy theorists are 20 somethings, disillusioned with the fortunes of their future, indoctrinated by their fellow discontented leftists to stupidly blame George W. Bush.

    F)Your willful ignorance is not the government's responsibility to "explain".

    I could go on due to the like 100 posts you've made desperately trying to persuade people on this forum to follow that BS official NIST, Pop-Mech, 9/11 commission report.

    One question for you batshitcrazy . . .
    Why so serious ?

  474. BIGDAWG18

    Hmmm ... stupid and rude.
    Yeah, you qualify as a 9/11 "troofer."

  475. aRunning_Maniac

    How are you coming up with such a large figure? Thousands of people in on it? I would imagine this kind of operation would require multiple cells, but thousands? I don't know about that.

  476. Toonami Tom ?(?o?)?

    Why don't you open your mind? The questions asked are valid and have gone without answers to this day. Obviously this actually happened and obviously REAL lives were ruined. That isn't the point of the argument. You can't just accept everything that the Government tells you. No one turned this into any paranoia. The only thing that documentaries like this want you to do is just to think about stuff. If you really get so worked up over hearing the truth, that more happened than what we heard and saw on tv, then I am really sorry for your closed minded self.

  477. Grover Watrous

    You`re the man they need.

  478. Jakob Isindahowz

    First a theory is not a fact but just a theory UNTIL its been proven. So that point made zero sense. Second, there are tons of very scientific theories being proven by proffessionals on the truther side. Such as testing dust samples and finding molten iron spheres and microsized aluminum that is extremely rare and difficult to make along with red chips that reacted in an explosive manner under heat. Or another fellow who used video evidense to prove NIST lied regarding WTC total fall time estimate and the length of time it fell at free fall acceleration. He also measured multi ton steel girders being ejected away from the towers at estimtated speeds of up to 60mph. These are facts, repeatable by anyone with the same equipment UNLIKE NIST who refuse to reveal their information that they used to arrive at their conclusions. The NIST report is a farce, admitting that free fall acceleration only occurs with NO resistance yet admitting WTC 7 fell at free fall on page 607 of their report for 2.25 seconds, with a massive steel concrete structure below. Please, explaon to me how that is scientific or fact and not a cover up? Even FEMA admits finding molten steel in wtc 7 rubble but NIST claims theres no evidense despite having FEMAs report and video and personal evidense. They also claim they found no evidense of explosives, admitting they never even looked again claiming the lie of no evidence despite again dozens of recorded and personal witnesses to explosions. I ask myself, why? Why would an investigation into the worst crime in US history not thoroughly explore every theory Including the most likely(explosives) and apparently choose to try to prove an already established conclusion? Sorry but I know which side is pushing their crazy conspiracy and judging by their science, I am not buying it.


    9/11's explanation was PROVEN to be a totally fabricated and ridiculously obvious LIE, and the report that was offered to the people was full of lies and misinformation. Not one report otherwise has been given that isn't proven to be full of misinformation. All one has to do is look at the pentagon and the damage that is impossible to have been caused by a plane. The evidece is overwhelming. Now that proves nothing i know... but why did they lie about that? ANd that is only one of countless holes in the story that were explained with elaborate lies. WAKE UP!

  480. Name

    Other planes have flown into the ground at a full speed dive. Their black boxes were found, along with passengers.

  481. José J. Bronze

    FBI investigation by hundreds if not thousands of agents over a few decades of farther developing research methods...

    Are you even paying attention to the subject matter?

    "It is obvious that you think you gain something... like any of the thousands of people that were in one way or the other involved and dare not look AND SEE"

  482. Sheldon Simmons

    Its okay to post your opinion. But I feel your just in denial. I was in the Navy for 8 years, wich dosent make me an exspert on anything. But I did work with Jet Fuel. From what I learned Jet Fuel will not continuously burn. It definitely doesn't get hot enough to burn steel. Pentagon? Where are all the bodies, plane debree, seats, and why was the grass untouch in front of the too small hole that a plane was suppose to hit. Why where all servalance video confiscated, and then released in slides after there was a demand for the video to be released. Why did Bush and Cheney refuse to be question separately. And the interview could not be recorded or filmed. If you have no clue of any attack, then why the secrecy? Oh let me guess the American people don't need to know everything. Right? For our own saftey? I'm not going for that. People have died and continue to die as I type. And by trying to discredit the truthers who are being real Americans and not falling in step with what the government says and questioning everything that has not been proven is time well spent. 911 is a hoax. And American's are the only ones who seems to believe its not. Buildings that can withstand a 100 year storm collapsing in an hour free fall speed. Only happen twice in history. Twice that day. Building 7 not even hit or damaged, collapse also? Explain these things to us please since we are the crazy ones that believes in common sence and logic, and not what we are told! That is the conspiracy.

  483. Papillon k

    The Government has made people think in such a way that if the Government does something very wrong and people research on the matter and exposes the Government, the Government will just say ''Oh these are Conspiracy Theorists'' and whatever wrong doings the Government did goes under the carpet like dust.

    ''All jetliners are equipped with flight data recorders (FDRs) and cockpit voice recorders (CVRs) contained in "black boxes" designed to survive the most severe crashes. To date, none of the contents of any of the black boxes have been released to the public''

    If the Government were not hiding something they would have released the contents of the Black Boxes to the Public, so the Public would know what really Happened.

    From the eyes of an ''average'' person from around the World looking at the Twin Towers on fire and then collapse to the ground, the person would believe that because of the ''Impact'' of the Airplane and the ''Fire'' the Building Collapsed.

    From the eyes of a person who is a bit more ''educated'' the person will not believe that ''Fire'' and ''Impact'' was the cause of the Building Collapsing because its not that Simple.

  484. Papillon k

    1) How did passengers make cell phone calls?

    2) How could the hijackers perform maneuvers that experienced pilots couldn't even dream of. (For that matter, how did they become hijackers in the first place?) Oh yeah, how could a boeing 767 hit speeds that exceeded its structural capacity.

    3) How come the "black box" data from the pentagon hit can be completely discredited and shown to be impossible.

    4) Where were all the relatives at the airports the day of the crashes?

    5) Who placed the puts?

    6) Where the hell are the rest of the pentagon tapes...I want them right now!

    7) How come the one "edited" tape of the pentagon hit shows something that, yet again, was impossible....LEVEL FLIGHT. Plus that wasn't a tip of a jet liner. Give me a break.

    8) Why was all the debris from the destruction of the Twin Towers recycled extremely fast without any chance of a forensic investigation to check for ''possible evidence of explosives'' to prove it was a controlled demolition.

    9) How did Tower no 7 collapse even though it was not struck by any 'Plane & why was Tower no 7 not mentioned in the 9/11 Commission Report ?

    10) Most of the Survivors and Firemen from the Twin Towers reported explosions all over the Buildings seconds before the Buildings Collapsed which PROVED it was a controlled demolition, why wasn't this information taken seriously ?

  485. MrKobe2011 .

    what are talking about this was a pretty unbiased documentary. Obviously its purpose is to debunk conspiracy theories, as the title says, but this video interviews people on both sides fairly and lets them state their arguments. They even interviewed the guys from loose change. At the end of the movie the creators of loose change even had to edit and reedit their films because their arguments were disproven without a shadow of doubt. (phone calls, tower 7 collapse). The difficult thing with conspiracy theories is that any evidence used to counter the conspiracy are all written off as part of the cover up, its a complete delusion. This videos shows the huge holes in the conspiracy theories and how illogical and out of context some of these are. Tower 7 is a perfect example, why would these government agencies blow up this tower which housed their offices, when any incriminating evidence could just have easily been removed and destroyed elsewhere, why would they do something so risky and so intricate as blowing up a building which would leave a much larger margin for error and heighten their chances of getting caught? it doesnt make sense...there is no evidence of a controlled demolition. Conspiracy theories will never go away its always good to scrutinize events as they unfold but at some point you also have to scrutinize your own conspiracies

  486. Aeloi

    My point is that this isn't "objective journalism" but "propaganda". In the conspiracy movement you are going to find an awful lot of manure. Frankly - loose change was full of it. One can pick anyone they want to interview when attempting to prove their case. That they chose the editors of loose change was to their advantage.

    You will also discover there are things called "disinformation", "misinformation" and "counter-intelligence". Much of the theories you find were parroted from elsewhere - and a lot of these fall into "misinformation". Then there is deliberate "disinformation" feeding the "misinformation" as part of the counter intelligence programs.

    Building 7 is a great example. It showed clear signs of demolition and depending on who's interviewing which "expert" you'll hear adamant claims refuting and supporting "controlled demolition". How about the fact that the heat could not have melted the steel in the twin towers? How about the fact that EVEN IF it weakened the support beams, that doesn't explain why every floor below broke with such ease. The pancake theory doesn't jive with the freefall speeds at which the towers fell. The structures below were giving way before the debris above could have possibly knocked them down. It wouldn't have been a photofinish with terminal velocity itself but several seconds behind based on the official story.

    Claiming that conspiracy theorists will often claim contradictory evidence as part of the conspiracy is pretty silly when the "evidence" presented is itself easily refutable.

    I merely pointed out how and where the producers of this film were and would be intimately connected financially and politically to the events of 9/11 and would have a motive to aid any conspiracies surrounding it. Beyond that observation, I made no conspiracy theories of my own until this reply - so why don't you scrutinize whatever theories you've cooked up regarding myself. You don't even seem to voice one single original thought but instead regurgitate similar trite I've seen dozens of other places. It has an almost "bah" like ring to it.

  487. Aeloi

    Speaking of "capitalizing on an industry of paranoia" - who's more effectively done this? Conspiracy theorists? Or our own government..

    TSA, Patriot Act I and II, increasing "police state", NDAA, government spying and several other measures passed by our leaders have been based on this "industry of paranoia". And who are we told we should be paranoid of? Ourselves and each other. Yeah - that makes sense. They said they attacked us because they hated our freedom... I suppose that's true.

  488. MrKobe2011 .

    Its actually really very simple. Im not going to try to convince you that the US government is perfect and incapable of any wrong doing. The world is not all sunshine and rainbows...US foreign policy in the middle east, especially its financial and military backing of isreal, has created a lot of angst toward the US for decades. If this is the case and the us does have many foreign enemies is it really so inconceivable that a well known terrorist organization such as Al Queda could possible orcheastrate such an attack? The answer is obvious as such attacks have been carried out against the US and its allies in the past by this and other organizations. Answer me this...Why would Osama Bin Laden and Al Queda claim sole responsibility for 911 and warn its citizens that they are not safe in their borders? Go online and watch the videos for yourself. Look it up. What better way to belittle and destroy your enemies credibility than to call them on their lie so the world population would know the truth. Is this "misinformation" is it "Disinformation" is Osama Bin Laden part of the cover up? The narrative of conspiracy theories simply does not fit and infact contradicts the narrative of what is actually happening....You probably believe Osama is still alive...Lets take a step back. Your method of discrediting this video is to attack who they decided to interview. Loose Change. This video is by far the most viewed most popular 911 conspiracy video on the internet! the point of this video is to debunk conspiracies, wouldnt it make sense to start there. Everyone has seen loose change, I saw it too and bough into it like everyone else. But, as time went on and more information went out this video has been proven to be filled with many holes and "misinformation". many of their arguments are the very same ones that other conspirators use and continue to advocate. Loose change speaks at length about put options and all kinds of shady practices that the supposed people involved in 911 used to get money. This been so utterly and publicly disproven its almost laughable. All trades and options are public record you have no way of hiding them from the public. The put options were all proven to be part of normal business practices by day traders and brokers. This is just one example of how this "misinformation" is alot heavier on the conspiracy side. As for the twin towers collapse. It was not just the heat, the plane destroyed the structural integrity of the whole building. And i know they were designed to take a plane crash, but you can ask any engineer, what looks good on paper isnt necessarily gonna hold up in reality and 30 years later. As for the pancake theory not being possible, just watch the videos of the collapse, you dont need a theory just 2 eyes to look and youll see as this video points out that in both towers the collapse begins at the point of impact of both planes. thats 30 plus floors in tower 2 and 20 plus for tower 1. The size and sheer weight of all that material crashing down is absolutely enough to bring down the whole building, and quickly. Controlled demotions are brought down from the bottom not at floors 75 or 90 or wherever they got hit. If anyone is a sheep its you my friend...

  489. Aeloi

    I don't speak the language so can not verify the accuracy of the subtitles. Thanks for that though. I agree. It was definitely Osama in the video you shared. Whatever the CNN used was a grainy piece of **** with a clear impostor. <- explain that.

  490. MrKobe2011 .

    well there in lies the problem doesnt it haha. But I guess you just have to take the videos word for it or find someone who can verify it for you. That CNN video is pretty bad I dont believe it was an imposter because AL queda still took credit for the attacks and reference it all the time in other speeches and videos. The video is awful quality and very poorly lit. Once again as with this whole conspiracy narrative fails to address, theres multiple videos of bin laden and others referencing and taking credit for the attack. What better way could Al queda beat their enemy than to destroy its credibility, they havent, and i dont think our government is that stupid.

  491. Aeloi

    I believe we've gone back and forth all we need to. I'm not going to jump into rabbit holes of uncertainty and conspiracy. It's no conspiracy though that Al Queda began as a CIA asset and was trained by our own government. What ties might still exist I can not claim to know. I advise you look over the list of undebunkables I provided a couple comments up. I also bring this whole discussion back to the point I began with. As one who seeks the truth of things myself, I would not trust THIS documentary to be the bearer of such. Both Popular Mechanics and NBC are too tied up with the military industrial complex to possibly have taken an impartial stance on the matter - regardless of the facts. That you feel the need to debate me on this point has proven fruitless for us both. I wish you the best in your own search for truth.

  492. Blue

    6) Where the hell are the rest of the pentagon tapes...I want them right now!

    ^^This. This all day, If NOTHING else ever makes you question the events of 9/11, this should.

  493. Bruce Abercrombie

    Someone cynically observed, "if 911 attack was government organized, implemented, and covertly controlled then the smartest guys are in power" !

  494. Bono

    what a terrible doco. it's vague, propaganda doesn't cut it.

  495. Antidot Nyarlat

    It does also make no sense to wage war against countries who had no link to al-qaida because of not existing WMDs. Who was the guy who did it nontheless? It´s the same guy who saw the first plane strike on 9/11 on TV in a classroom. Why am I not surprised! The NeoCons want world domination. That has nothing to do with logic. Hitler wanted all jews dead. Had nothing to do with logic either.

  496. Bob


    I always say, just take all emotion out. Forget even thinking it was the Government. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.

    I am extremely informed and found out about Building 7 THIS YEAR. WHAT?!?!? How could I just be finding out about this?

    Now I am on a mission to know the truth. I guess I am now a "truther." No need to insult that. Sure, some claims likely are a stretch. But start with the basics.

    I would start with a full fledged investigation into Building 7. That's it. Let the public know in a big way that a 3rd tower came down. It wasn't hit by a plane. I(f everyone just knew THAT, we would all start raising questions. Here I am, 12 years later, wondering how I didn't know there was a 3rd TOWER! That alone is messed up, we need to investigate for demo, as an American that cares what really happened, I NEED to KNOW!

  497. bignoodle

    LMFAO!!! At the end of episode 1, Michael Schirmer states that " Here's the claim, here's the answer, here's the claim, "here's the answer, by the end, they've got nothing to stand on, boom, end of story." Sooooo, what FACTS have you got that can substantiate your religion? Quick question - " WHERE did noah put the air conditioning unit to keep ALL Polar animals at the right temperature? No evidence, no proof, just a story that's been handed down from generation to generation with some bits added, some omitted, depending on which way they wanted to steer the OFFICIAL storyline to suit private and political agendas. Yet, YOU believe the bible... Far more evidence to substantiate claims of an Inside Job / Cover Up, yet you refute this... Well done. LMFAO!!!

  498. Drscottyjones .

    The 'expert' claims that us, the lame public think that because the pentagon hole was small and round, a jet wouldn't fit, and that us lame-o's expect a cartoon hole the shape of the jet, and that is just ridiculous. However the holes that the jets left in the towers were shaped liked the jets, so where is the ridiculousness there? Am I missing something? or is it the 'experts' that are missing something?

  499. John

    I realise it's scary to imagine that your own government would be party to such an outrage but maybe you'd like to answer a question of mine. How could NORAD fail to do what it was set up to do four times in one day when it had never failed previously? And why was almost everyone culpable for those failures subsequently rewarded with promotions. Go online, you tell us. Why don't you go online and check this out for yourself? You can maybe dismiss one or two anomalies in the 9/11 story but there are literally dozens of 'facts' that don't add up - for example, eight or nine of the 19 hijackers identified were subsequently discovered by the BBC to be alive and well and living normal lives in various locations throughout the middle east, most of them never having been to the USA. Or how about the passport that was discovered in the debris of the Twin Towers (by a cop, conveniently) that allegedly belonged to one of the terrorists?Strange it managed to survive a fireball which completely vapourised a plane - I guess they must use special blast-proof, fire-proof paper in Saudi Arabia. Wake up, people - your government doesn't give a shit about you - all it cares about is serving its masters in the Fed, the oil industry and the arms trade.

  500. John

    I don't know where you're getting this from - neither Bin Laden nor Al Qaeda claimed responsibility for 9/11. This is a myth predicated on video footage showing small groups in the Middle East celebrating the collapse of the towers.

  501. John

    I don't know what dictionary you're using but mine says this:

    theory |ˈθɪəri|noun ( pl. theories )a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained: Darwin's theory of evolution.• a set of principles on which the practice of an activity is based: a theory of education |[ mass noun ] : music theory.• an idea used to account for a situation or justify a course of action: my theory would be that the place has been seriously mismanaged.• Mathematics a collection of propositions to illustrate the principles of a subject.

    The key words are 'supposition' and 'idea'. Nowhere does it suggest, as you do, that theory implies fact. We agree on one point, however - Alex Jones is an absolute gift to the conspiracy debunkers and does a disservice to those offering articulate dissent. If you'd done as much research on the subject you'd find that are many credible and highly intelligent people who wholeheartedly believe 9/11 was an inside job. To dismiss them as insane and delusional suggests that you are the one who is out of touch with reality. I feel sorry for you that you are so brainwashed into believing your country as as sweet and wholesome as mom's apple pie. You are in for a very rude awakening.

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