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Beyond Belief

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Beyond BeliefFrom the author: Jesus trained in India, taught meditation and reincarnation and died in India.

This film provides a compelling case for this viewpoint using historical and anecdotal evidence to support these claims but the centerpiece to the argument made in Beyond Belief is the Gospel of Thomas.

The producer argues that this gospel contains esoteric knowledge taken directly from the Vedas. The Gospel of Thomas itself, is the Holy Grail. Beyond Belief is the sequel to Beyond Me.

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Comments and User Reviews

  • joeboer

    As an Indian, I am always struck by the similarities in the techniques used by jesus to teach and preach. Its practised till this day in india including performance of miracles. The idea of taking disciples and the notion of a 'guru' with disciples and the idea of holding a 'sangha' or even to some extent even baptizing in holy water are rituals and practises forming the essence of vedic teaching techniques. The idea of compassion and focusing on the inner self rather than outer or material self is a indian tradition. I am not surprised at all. I believe this. India has been the laboratory of the mind for the benefit of universal mankind. The concepts are universal and in indian hindu or vedic context christianity or jesus would just be another god in the pantheon of 'enlightened' souls and there is no real god that every human has 'god' within themselves.

  • Sieben Stern

    we would also stop killing ourselves over god if we'd realize there was not one to begin with!

  • joeboer

    Also want to mention that the sanskrit word for non-believer or athiest is 'nastik'. In several indian languages athiests are referred to as "nastiks" and I have always wondered if the root word for the english word agnostic came from sankrit. Watching this makes it a possibility that the non-roman christians were referrered to as nastiks and that it must have some indian connection passed on with the training that a westerner such as jesus must have received and used it as part of his lectures while expressing ideas around belief and non-belief.

  • wald0

    The root of the word agnostic is Agnosto- which is greek for unknown or forgotten. The root of agnosto is gnosis- or knowledge- which is also the root of diagnosis, prognosis, and of course gnosticism (an older branch of epistemology). Hope this helps.

  • http://twitter.com/HeathrCalifrnia Heather Wade

    Colbert is the man.

  • 0zyxcba1

    I'll post the pair of links following this.
    For now, search YouTube or Google for:

    "Origin of Faith - John Frum vs Jesus 1/2"
    and
    "Origin of Faith - John Frum vs Jesus 2/2"
    (total time=11min)

    You will find this 11minute case study most informative,
    regardless of your views.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Graham-Hooper/100001924822064 Graham Hooper

    i read a book written in late 1800's by an american scientist called travels with mystics and spiritual masters of the far east.??or similar title. he saw things as a scientist he couldnt explain men walking on water across a river while he and "non believers "had to walk to the nearest bridge. he saw hands on healing and saw books /manuscripts that recorded a visit of a man "jesus" and "john" the baptist. so an open mind to the truth always helps as old books were burned if the leaders of the time did not agree with them and handwritten manuscripts would have been rarer than books burned by so called christians today...

  • Dafunkdoc

    Atheists are full of non sequiturs and are just as illogical as Theists. The term 'God' makes no sense so if you're going to argue for or against the existence of that entity, you need to make a coherent ontology of the subject or else you speak nonsense and are wasting time and thought.

  • Guest

    Your comment makes no sense since you have no coherent ontology of the subject. If you're going to be an Atheist, at least be a logical one. I find Atheists and Theists to be equally illogical insomuch as discussing this subject is concerned and wish you'd both just shut up.

  • Achems_Razor

    Anybody actually watch this doc. shows up dead on all my computers, black screen, no doc. But then had the same problem with "Beyond me" doc.

  • Guest

    just finished watching it, working ok.
    "All my computers", how many?
    az

  • Norm

    Worked fine for me although I have had problems with Vimeo before. Sometimes I have to slide the bar forward a bit before it will start.

  • FranYule

    This just makes so much sense.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YTCZ6HE3T5H3R22CDN36XQKDUA Francisco Flores

    This is the same as all religions interpretations, just someone saying "I think what Jesus meant by saying this is..." all interpretation, can't really have any solid debate about facts here =/.

  • capriciouz

    This is ridiculously stupid. I mean on a stupidity scale between 1 and 10 I would give this a -3. If you actually believe in reincarnation you need to learn just a little bit about the human brain.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ssbuyco Solomon S. Buyco

    Reincarnation...
    "Verily, verily, I say unto you, You'll never enter the Kingdom of Heaven, unless you'll be born again." - Jesus
    Jesus was with us already and the New Jerusalem will come again...but with the four horsemen from the four corner of the world... to prepare us to the New Earth as promised as this old Earth will come to cease to exist as the sun will now stop to expand and begins to shrink.... This was written in the Old Testament.

  • Joe_NYC

    Hey razor

    I have the same problem with firefox but vimeo seems to play with ms explorer ( different broswer )

  • Achems_Razor

    Hi'ya Joe

    Installed ubuntu 10.04 lucid. Have sound issues.
    Can get vid at the vimeo site, but choppy sound.
    Am going to install windows on one pc just for the vids.

  • WTC7

    Safari plays it without any problems

  • Joe_NYC

    For crying out loud another jesus story? My favorite and only jesus is the plastic baby jesus doll during christmas when a bunch of church kids act out nativity.

    btw - what the hell is ' divinity in you ' ??????

  • http://twitter.com/Squeezle042 Robert M

    Having watched this I would have to say I agree with one phrase for sure, "The truth shall set you free". I think if one measures the rest with this ruler, it becomes clearer.

    I see the author trending towards the recent education towards meditation which is good, I think as long as one keeps the practice for what it is, a medicine, and not some mystical unknown attached to one religion or another.

  • wald0

    I agree, it is useful for reducing stress or to focus, I find thought experiment much easier after meditation for instance. I also use it to help me get to sleep as I am a horrible insomniac. That said these people go over board, they act as if meditation has some supernatural quality that can effect the physical world some how. They try and talk people out of traditional medical treatments in favor of meditating, which is ridiculus. You want me to believe meditation can cure addiction or cancer, show me some double blind studies and real scientific results, not an hours worth of some guys opinion. Not that this documentary makes such claims, but the prequel does. I tune this stuff out when they start using phrases like life energy or force, the "divinity in you", etc. These phrases don't even mean anything, they just sound good to most humans, they sound spiritual or mystical.

    The day mankind learns that the scientidic method and logical deduction, coupled with our technological senses, are the best tools for understanding ourselves and the universe around us will be the first day of our adult life- the day we put away childish things. The people that make these documentaries have an agenda, to make money. They want to be some kind of life coach for others, for a fee of course. That doesn't mean that everything they say is incorrect or dishonest, just that they do have motivation to insinuate certain things or advance certain ideologies. In my opinion you should keep that in mind when trying to digest the info from these kinds of docs.

  • Jacob Ben Chaim

    Approx @ minute 06:30 he said "The teachings can be traced back to the Vedas and go back possibly hundreds of thousand years"......
    Meaning that Neanderthals made them?
    After hearing that I had enough

  • http://www.facebook.com/Burakkuurufu Alin Daroi

    @Jacob Ben Chaim "The teachings can be traced back to the Vedas and go back possibly hundreds of thousand years" u are wrong the corect sentence is "The teachings can be traced back to the Vedas THAT go back possibly hundreds of thousand years"

  • Jacob Ben Chaim

    @ Alin, do the vedas go back hundrerds of thousand years?

  • rajendra kumar

    No one know, Vedas are how old. These are not simple books written by one man, but compiled over many centuries by many forms. These are the oldest knowledge survived on the planet earth.

  • John Marus

    judest priest, not more mythology lessons, when will be realize all we have is NOW, not some make believe god in the sky. Just try to be a good person, have less babies, and respect the earth and all it's creatures - you don't need any gawd for that. The biggest problem facing our planet is called religion, it has caused (and continues to cause) more pain, suffering, death and despair than any other vice. First thing we can do, tax them and start building a fund to help those who have been destroyed by their lies.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_DGL2GGRRMPLDOAFRNOBDHV3PVY John

    John Marus the atheist! So Sad!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/rongivens Pasta Ron

    Well said, John Marus.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZMK6YNWJACHQ5CRCJW5TNYFURI KsDevil

    Taking out the mysticism, it's an interesting journey in human psychology and philosophy. I'm embarrased for the University professor, tho.
    It is well known that stories and ideas will always become revised by time, circumstance, and personal intention. The understanding of religion is no different.
    But more understanding needs to be done to understand why we always seem to naturally gravitate to myth even when there seems to be no precondition. It seems almost genetic.

  • anuragawasthi

    Many christain scholars in India say that St.Thomas came to india but the Vatican denies it.............if I have to choose

  • wald0

    What? I have read and studied the old testament fairly extensively and I have never seen anything about the sun starting to shrink. Can you please give a referrence to the verses you speak of? Don't take me wrong, I study all religions and thier respective texts but I am not religious. I am asking due to academic curiosity only.

  • lisa aharon

    EXCELLENT!!! Definitely makes a good case for his theory. For more thought-provoking reading, check out "The Knowledge Book". Namaste

  • SaintNarcissus

    hmmmm. while this is interesting and I applaud the inquiring and open-minded spirit of the exercise, the scholarship of the theories are a bit...um...lacking.

  • memoiandi

    Your comment suggests that it's sad that he's an atheist. Why do you consider that sad? It doesn't sound like he's sad at all, just a clear thinker.

    By the way, if you disagree with what he is saying, attack his arguments. Don't attack him personally by labeling him and then attacking the label.

  • Jack1952

    That there was a guy named Jesus living in Israel 2000 years ago is quite likely true. That he was a miracle worker....I kind of doubt it. That people of that time believed that he was, I would say, most definitely. After all, I see faith healers on tv all the time. I'm shocked and a little amused at how many people actually believe that they can healed by these charlatans. However, this guy now assertions of that Jesus was in India seem tenuous at best. I would think that his belief in reincarnation and Hinduism are more likely to be the force in his belief. To me, it seems as if he is saying that he has found the true path and that the religions of the Middle East are derivatives of Hinduism and maybe even a corruption of the true path. A little self serving I would think.

  • eyecandy_babydoll

    I think it's sad to call someone names just because they choose to think for themselves. Atheism allows people to question and seek the truth, much like science. Religion serves to turn people into sheep and conform to control by the people who invented the religion.

  • Jack1952

    Science and religion....always a wonderful combination. Isn't it astounding how science is now just now speculating on ideas that primitive hunter gatherers have known as truth thousands of years ago? Its that stone age particle accelerator that must have done the trick.

  • Jack1952

    I told my girlfriend that I wanted to be the divinity in her. She told me to go to sleep.

  • Jack1952

    Pushing the like button just didn't seem enough. I have to say it...... "I like".

  • Jack1952

    I think becomes I know if you yell loud enough.

  • StimParavane

    Did you actually watch the film? I suspect not. Why not learn to meditate as is suggested? It will transform the way you view the world.
    When you say " all we have is NOW" you are not that far away because to meditate is to sit still, with a straight spine, and to focus on the immediate present before discriminatory thought arises. Over time the gap between your thoughts will increase, your mind will become peaceful, and then joy and the compassion that is your true nature will manifest both within and without.

  • StimParavane

    He is speaking from direct experience rather than from the intellect.

  • Loz Grain

    You're like Jesus turning over the tables of the money-lenders! ;)

  • alenajoy

    The Bible claims to be divinely inspired by God. 2 Timothy 3:16-17. "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." Those that don't believe the Bible is truth, may read all sorts of teachings that could be false, but how will they know truth or error when they hear it, if they don't have truth to compare things to? There has to be some foundation of truth that can be trusted, to validate what is true and what is false.

    Because I believe the Bible to be truth, as it claims to be, I know that the idea that Jesus taught incarnation is completely erroneous. Christ would have never taught anything contrary to scripture. Hebrews 9:27 says, "And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment." The idea of reincarnation is contrary to Christian teaching. It also invalidates the idea of salvation through the shed blood of Jesus. If a person needs to live multiple times, to attain to a higher level of spiritual enlightenment, Jesus' life and death were completely unnecessary. Some believe there are many paths to God. But if Jesus died for all mankind, how can that be so?

    The idea that Jesus died in India is totally false because there were eyewitnesses to His death. Also, Christians make pilgrimages to Jesus tomb in Israel all the time. His tomb is historical information that was passed down since His death.

    It's very important for people to find truth and to know it for themselves. We can be very deceived, thinking we know something, when it may in fact be false. The Bible says that man's heart is deceitful and desperately wicked. We are born into a world of sin and we all have a sinful nature, until we become regenerated by God's spirit. So our hearts can deceive us until we have a true encounter with God and our eyes are opened spiritually. What we believe can put us in great spiritual danger when we die. I believe many die believing lies. I think Saddam Hussein is an example of that. He lived a life of murdering and hating and before he was hung, he was crying death to the USA and praising Allah. I have a very hard time believing that people who are filled with hate make it into God's presence. After all, scripture says that God is love and we are not to hate. So I believe many die believing lies. Believing something doesn't make it so. I don't think there is one truth for some and another truth for others. Truth is truth for everyone because there is one true God. That's why when we have conflicting beliefs in religions, I think someone is wrong because God is not confused and He cannot lie.

  • Achems_Razor

    You do not know that your bible is "truth". all you are doing is quoting circular logic, "because the bible told me so", which means absolutely nothing!!

  • His Forever

    I agree. Well said.

  • His Forever

    We all have some kind of standard for truth Mr. Razor. What's your standard? Who are you to make the judgment that your standard negates what is contained in the Bible as circular logic?

  • Achems_Razor

    @C_and_N:

    Charles, quote mining from a "man" made book/books, (the bibles) offers absolutely no "standard of truth" to mankind at all, you might as well quote Batman or Spiderman comics, same thing! FAIRY TALES!

  • http://www.facebook.com/ElmoPutz David Foster

    Colbert certainly depicts the typical Christian.

  • alenajoy

    You should have said the Bible means nothing to you. It means much to many. Perhaps some have a greater ability to perceive truth when they hear it. Romans 8:16, "The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children." Maybe your spirit is not alive. Maybe your spirit is deceived. Maybe your spirit is rebellious against God. That's true for most people. They love darkness rather than light. They love to do their own thing, which is rebellion against God. John 3:19, "This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil." We weren't created to do our own thing and be self focused and love the pleasures of the world. Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. It seems wise to find out what we're here for and get on that path.This is God's promse and reward to those that love Him. 3 John 1:2, "Beloved, I desire that in all things thou shouldest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospers." It's a deception of the realm of darkness to think that serving God is a waste and a bore. God is a loving God and desires friendship with His children. It is a wide path that leads men to destruction. It's a straight and narrow path that leads to everlasting life. Those that choose the right path are wise. It costs them something. They are willing to pay the price because it has great benefits. Living for self and doing one's on thing is very easy. It requires effort to make wiser decisions and seek truth. There is no such thing as a counterfeit peace. The world can't give it. Only God can. It's a byproduct of knowing Him. If we are not filled with God's spirit, we will be filled with another spirit that dominates our flesh and makes us we're doing the choose. We are an empty vacuum. We are going to be influenced by good or evil. The more we move away from God, the more we move toward darkness. I hope you will seriously seek the truth because everything else is empty and a huge waste of time when we're thinking about forever.

  • trumpsahead

    Mr Huguenard, thank you for a most enlightening documentary. I've known for 50 years about Jesus' lost years but did not make much headway investigating, spent more time investigating the Father because I could never grasp that God was "spirit" when in the Bible he has a name (Jehovah/Yahweh) and he spoke more than most people. God creating the entire Universe was and is bogus to me also, and that is why I think Catholics don't understand basic God 101. The Bible speaks of Yahweh or Jehovah but I think priests are getting away from acknowledging His name to keep him as a Spirit; also calling him God implies only One God and is easier to accept He created the entire Universe when you speak of God as a Spirit Being. What then of Jehovah or Yahweh? That was always the rub to me.

    I finally discovered that God is/was real and physical as there are hundreds or thousands of clay tablets 6,000 years old or much older written by or about him. Archaeological finds in the Mesopotamian area (Iraq) from 1850-1925 (read James Pritchard; and Zechariah Sitchin's 12th Planet) or so prove that God's name was E.a and backwards you will hear the phonetic "yahweh". "Jehovah" is a convoluted spelling of the name E.a since Hebrews did not have any vowels at the time God said his name so spelled it "jhvh" which meant "e.a".
    In an effort to use God for their advantage at a time when the Roman Empire was on the wane, priests and kings made Him mystical and a "spirit" and only those appointed and annointed like kings and priests could know what God wanted. Anyone professing to hear God like Joan of Arc gets torched. This is all to control the masses, nothing to do with achieving God enlightenment or deep awareness of truths.

    So, I am suggesting that your idea of Jesus living in India for many years is as plausible as his dieing in Jerusalem. We are "taught" one story to be True but it does not make it true; it became "established", the status quo, and any arguments are "heresy". If you raise a question and Authority cannot give you a valid understandable answer why trust the "accepted truth"? More info has been left out of the Bible than has been put in. One has only to read the history of the United States to see so many discrepancies and even now changes are being written to our history. History is written by whoever is in Authority, or as Mel Gibson says, "reality is determined by whoever has the biggest stick." Anyway, where a document is held as "sacred" and "God's truth" and determined by man, priest or someone of Power, it is most likely not truth but a "directive" which in time becomes "sacred law". It's all bs.

    The Gospel According to Judas was a mind blower, and now the Gospel According to Thomas, wow. Your interpretations are fantastic. For the record, I believe Jesus was born of a virgin mother and his father is E.a/Jehovah who must have spoken to him throughout Jesus' life. It is probable that Jesus studied in India as so much is written about that.

  • trumpsahead

    This is my 2nd comment.
    First of all, the whole idea of an "organized religion" is proof that control of the masses is the motivation, nothing more. "Organized" means a way of behaving or performing certain ritual, or following rules, laws and regulations, that is dictated by someone in Authority. I say "screw 'em all, to hell with the status quo.
    Truth is truth, why should I give a damn what religious organization a person belongs to? If truth is spoken, I keep listening. This is the exact same thing our Govt is doing to our miserable economy today. Govt interrupts free market flow when they insist their actions are smarter, and the result has brought us to the brink of the Greatest Economic Depression of all time. And the religious organizations do the same; more people killed in the name of God than anythng else. I say if God wants people dead let Him do it Himself.

    Catholic faith does not preach incarnation because it lessened their control over people, but the clever black'arts came up with a beauty: do good and go to heaven or do bad and rot in hell.
    I strongly assert that all governments and phoney dogmatic religious organizations should all rot in hell.

    Jesus may have said "it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven", but if he were around today he'd probably say ". . . than it is for a man who watches tv five hours a day, who sees 4,000 advertisements a week, who is propagandized by govt every hour of his waking life, who thinks success is measured in quantity of toys, who has no clue regarding nourishment of his soul, who is totally unaware that he is a reincarnating soul, to enter the kingdom of heaven.
    Amen, I'm done.

  • Achems_Razor

    @alenajoy:

    Again you are "quote mining," circular logic, because the bible told me so, out of the fairytale bibles.

    As with most religee's, do you not have any original thoughts of your own?

    You do not seem to know how ridiculous you sound.

  • Guest

    Meditation "can" bring one to a place between being awake and being asleep.
    A place of complete Silence of the mind, something unnatainable while awake or asleep.
    az

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YFP3UABQAE72LRZPLQMDNQ7SSU Jack Goodell

    teaching love and truth . you have to base for truth base on something that, would be love. the let it spread out in a simple way . you have to know what bonds are love,truth,and necessity .they help all people the best . if you know love as bond you can not use it in religions. they use love to separate them self from people they do not use love it is there belief of love it is not a pure love as they clam. it is part of ego mind.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YFP3UABQAE72LRZPLQMDNQ7SSU Jack Goodell

    teaching love and truth . you have to base for truth base on something that, would be love. the let it spread out in a simple way . you have to know what bonds are love,truth,and necessity .they help all people the best . if you know love as bond you can not use it in religions. they use love to separate them self from people they do not use love it is there belief of love it is not a pure love as they clam. it is part of ego mind. be for love for truth and human rights if you have religion,government,laws,if you know good or bad you have separate your form people love helps all but it is no fool . good and bad is a belief, a tool for judging. to make your self feel better about your self in most cases .

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_UFCNPNEKQKJJL5VU7TGFUSQIUA mmhmm

    More Truth in this film than many would or could be comfortable with.
    It is what it is, Truth.

  • John Smith

    Wow ... lets start with things we know to be true before we run wild with erroneous connections.

    The fact is that we don't even have any evidence that Jesus Christ existed. There is no independence historical evidence outside the various Gospels that he existed. The Romans kept good records but they don't record anything about this "trouble-maker". Josephus the Jewish historian has some references in his tests that might have been references to Jesus but these are contested by modern historians who believe they were inserted later by Christians.

    Just because a text exists doesn't make it truthful. If hundreds of years from now people found the Book of Mormon should they assume all is correct?

  • http://www.minoas.info/ minoas.info

    really good doc

  • chesterstreet

    What Jesus taught, is that God, the kingdom of heaven is withen you.
    That which you seek is within yousame message as Krishna, Rama and all the other wonderfull people who came to reveal the kingom of heaven to all who would listen.
    It is not an ideia, phillospy or a concept but knowledge of the living god who resides in the heart of every human being on the planet regardless of race creed or colour, if you are alive this energy is within you look at yourself if you search for god ,happiness. true love ,contentment fullfilment,it would be very cruel to put the desire for love withen you and not the source of love within you also as Kabair said the drops in the ocean every one knows but the ocean in the drop only a few know as long as you belive you will never know beliefs are like fairytales anything can happen and there is always debate when you know you know no debate needed.

  • psandz

    The content of this video is poorly researched and extremely biased. There are no genuine accounts of Jesus wandering in the Orient. All such claims have been debunked by vigorous research, and indeed the speaker presents no reliable evidence for the existence of his claimed ancient texts or manuscripts. He starts out with the premise that Jesus "must have" taught reincarnation because every "enlightened" wise man or guru always has. This claim is preposterous: belief in reincarnation is largely a factor of religious upbringing and culture. For example, the founder of the Bahai faith (the Persian sage Bahaullah) taught that reincarnation was untrue. I believe that Zoroastrianism does not hold to reincarnation either. Nether the Old nor New Testaments teach it.

    Then, after insisting that Jesus must have believed in reincarnation, he filters all his poor research.

  • fooboy

    psandz I think you don't know what your talking about. sounds like you believe Jesus rose from the dead. think of that for a moment you believe a man can rise from the died but can't believe a more logical story that he was maybe just an enlightened being (which by the way is more amazing to me then even rising from the dead anyway). And also all his doing is giving his opinion which is heaps better then what the catholic church has ever given, at least he uses his common sense to interpret information and not blindly believe everything that's told to him. I think his spot on to what he says, and think about this,, if tomorrow I found out that Jesus never existed do you think I would stop believing him..... No, why because even if he never existed its the message you should be looking at not the Hollywood special effects. its the story that attracts us all the enlightened message that so many seek. not whether he really died or existed, that's besides the point. This guy makes that point at the end of the documentary anyways, so I can't see how you didn't like this documentary.

    and again we are talking about things that are way beyond words, its an experience to be enlightened. if you read some Buddhist text things may start to make more sense. I like how he said read all the holy books and make your own judgement that's great, that's showing acceptance of all cultures and religions which what Jesus really has preaching "acceptance".

    anyways great documentary I like how I spoke very soothing to listen to.

  • fooboy

    And as for reincarnation that shouldn't be taken literally either, its more a manifestation of our being (reality) if you like.

    for example a criminal or murderer may suddenly have his conscience catch up with him and begins to feel guilty. One could say he has reincarnated to another life. since he was bad in his former life he now has to deal with guilt shame and responsibly in his life (Buddhist would say he reincarnates into a rat or something in his next life for being bad) but I see it as being here and now. You can't deny reality,, that's not what we're trying to do here its to better understand realities complexities.

    so as you can see rising from the dead or reincarnation have a metaphorical aspect to reality and if you consider that it fits well with reality.

    raising from the dead is more a message of hope than anything else for me. its saying even through all the suffering you can still find life...

    Thats why the Buddhist focus alot on the mind, the mind or conscience is one amazing thing, its our gate way to reality so understanding it would help us be happier in life..

  • Zachary Gillock

    You're correct... Just because a text EXISTS doesn't mean it is TRUE- doesn't mean it is RELIABLE.
    Thus, as I read your words, I wonder how truthful or reliable or fair your statements are. For starters, you say "modern historians" question/ reject the existence of Jesus Christ. That statement seems to imply that ALL (even MOST or MAJORITY of) 'modern historians' reject the existence of the person of Jesus. However, the reality is, it is the complete opposite. Most prominent historians- atheist or theist- past and present- conservative or liberal- recognize the historical person of Jesus.
    Most of the recent prominent 'Jesus Myth' "AUTHORITIES" aren't even historians- they are operating outside of their field of expertise (i.e. G.A. Wells (German), Arthur Drews (Math), D.M. Murdock (lower degree in Classics); Earl Doherty is qualified as a historian)... Though, you don't need to be an 'expert' or an 'authority' to make a truth claim... To make a claim that those well educated and versed in 1st century history are wrong and that you- who have no qualifications of historical or cultural study... of that time- know better than them seems rather foolish.
    ALSO, Jewish historical writings (i.e. Talmud) referred to Jesus. Now, why would a religious group of people who despised what Jesus stood for, what he said, and what he did- why would they include him in their historical records? ALSO, you say that Christians later inserted references to Christ in Josephus' writings. You are almost correct, most historians believe some of the text that referencing Christ was altered. But, the majority of these historians think that what was said about Christ may have been later altered; they still think that Josephus was referencing Jesus.
    Really, the fact is... Jesus Myth historians are basically crying conspiracy. They are saying that all these other historians (MIND YOU, coming from different religious, philosophical, educational, ethnic, and cultural backgrounds) all have underlying motives, theological agendas, and philosophical presuppositions that lead to a biased conclusion of the facts. That they all have a personal gain to affirming what has been considered the truth for centuries... And obviously, because people who make a new, paradigm shifting claim to truth cannot have any ulterior motives (i.e. personal bias or desire for wealth), it must be the truth!

  • Zachary Gillock

    So... Since PsandZ doesn't know what he is talking about, I assume that means you do?? ;) I would ask you whether you ARE correct or you THINK you are correct but I can see you value opinions more highly than facts so I'll just figure that you are stating an uneducated opinion.

    Although the Catholic Church (and Islam and Atheism-by means of Marxism) some times did a poor job, it was attempting to convey what it considered to be the TRUTH. This guy, as he basically alludes to at the end and as you said yourself, is giving his opinion- an opinion! i.e. "I think... Apple juice is the best drink... I THINK... Basketball is the best sport ever!" Opinion (non-educated)= What the individual thinks/ prefers... NOT to be confused with FACT OR TRUTH i.e. As of 2011, the United States consists of 50 states... On December 7th 1941, Pearl Harbor was attacked by Japan...

    Either way...
    You are saying we ought to be accepting of all religions and cultures. What do you mean by "accepting [acceptance]"?? Does that mean, accept them as equally valid? Equally right?
    As someone who believes in TRUTH but also LIES, I will accept people who have different religious and cultural view but that means I accept them as HUMAN BEINGS and love them as such. That does not mean that I accept their lifestyle or religious system as being TRUTH. The fact is, we all cannot be right. Christians, Muslims, and Jews claim exclusivity- they claim there is a Heaven for people that follow the true God and that there is a Hell for those who do not. There are other minor religious views of these that claim "inclusivity"- that all God to Heaven. There are those who claim that there is no such thing as God. Some claim there is no after life. Some claim there is no spiritual aspect of the human existence (i.e. soul). Some claim that we live in a naturalistic world- there is nothing but the material world. Some claim that the material world is not real... They all cannot be equally correct at the same time- at least according to the Law of Non-Contradiction. Furthermore, to claim they are all correct is to tell the groups who claim "exclusive" Truth are wrong...
    I'll give you props for trying to be open-minded. I think it's important to hear out the other sides and options. But, you seem to be open-minded towards somethings but then not towards Christianity/ resurrection (because you specifically mentioned that). But the fact is, a lot of people claim to be 'open-minded' but they aren't really as open-minded as they think they are. "Open-mindedness is a lot like beauty... It's in the eye of the beholder." ;)

  • fooboy

    lol, there you go someone with an opinion that's what I like to see,,, see its not that hard, at a boy. I like the way you try to twist what I was saying and yea I do have an opinion and no i'm not always right. but as for religion even a 6 year old will say but how do you rise from the dead if your dead. I guess the only truth in that is a philosophical question and lets not get into to much detail with that. infact our whole world seems to run on opinions. everyday you see opinion poles on parliament and the war in Iraqi and so on. and what that guy was saying did not sound outlandish its conceivable that its true just like its conceivable Jesus walked on water. all you have is your common sense to go off BUT AGAIN NOT THE POINT HERE,, ENLIGHTENMENT IS AN EXPERIENCES THAT ALL CAN HAVE THAT'S WHAT WHERE REALLY TALKING ABOUT. facts sometimes get in the way of our being, especially when they are being influenced by extreme emotions. so I'm glad you also have an opinion its good to see and if I knew everything oh what a boring world that would be so I'm glad I don't just on a journey for truth like many more others.
    and just like Jesus said heaven is not a place its is already here you just can't see it. but please don't quote me on that don't want to get my facts wrong cause common sense seems hard to find. but yea Buddhist say the same thing nirvana is here now already in front of you , you just need to be awakened and so on and so on. so that's all he was saying that all religions are giving the same message but with different cultural perspectives ..... why do you need facts for that did Jesus need a book to figure out his teachings did Buddha need any books did any of the other profits either it would be good to be knowledgeable but not key there's a difference between knowledge and wisdom. just like Jesus says its easier for a poor man to go to heaven than a rich man... I'm guessing a poor man doesn't even know how to read, any way would love to discuss more if you like, awaiting your reprisals...

    Subject: [topdocumentaryfilms] Re: Beyond Belief

  • fooboy

    hey how r u, yea your right money make the world go round. Catholic church has been doing in for thousands of years so has the worlds superpowers. There really nothing wrond with making money its greed that can get in the way. but yea i've always though what this guys says. the ideas he has are similar to how i always though of the bible and jesus and being in general, every since i was like in grade 6. but i didn't know about india that much, now that i think about it they do have alot of religious beliefs in their country going way back.

  • Hidde_Bastiaansen

    The only thing we can know for sure is that we doubt, try to doubt that. That seems to me like a solid truth. We can doubt everything else though! So why bother looking for a truth when you can never find one?

    That's the crazy thing about exclusive truth religions like Christianity, they claim to have the one and only truth, but can't tell or proof why it is. And if it was, would it even matter?

    For example: The Bible says that you can't kill or steal. But I think we could've figured that out ourselves too, it's a bit obvious.

    And that's (apart from being an atheïst) why I don't care if Jesus lived or not, because it wouldn't change anything about my morals or the way I live my life.

  • Hidde_Bastiaansen

    @C_and_N

    And then again: Your beloved church claims to have the one and only truth, ignoring everyone with an other standard of truth. Or even worse, killing them! Religious people are the ones that started making those judgements you accuse Achems_Razor of.
    The only thing he is trying to say, is that you can't take the Bible and say its the truth. Every other book has the same right to claim the truth as the Bible does.
    And the Bible even suggests that you can have slaves! Not my kind of truth, thank you very much.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mike-Vincent/1702083929 Mike Vincent

    Did anyone see those supposed 'footprints' of Jesus'?! Is this guy serious?

  • Annette Guida

    Well said and sums up so much. Many opinionated people do not know how to separate fact from passionate belief systems. Being that there is no proof from 'any of the camps'...It seems that the approach to an absolute is what we seek. The absolute truth, or the absolute justice, an absolute society, etc. On balance, an absolute doesn't pick and choose elements of itself. It just is. It is understood not by verbalizing, and killing over it. The significance of what is learned by the essence of an 'absolute' is immense. Cultures evolve over time....but, it is my uneducated opinion that the common denominator is as Descartes said: "Conquer yourself...not the world." If that principle was an 'absolute', so to speak, thinking would become the challenge it should be, even if you come to no conclusions, .....That could be the ONLY absolute.

  • alenajoy

    For one proof of Jesus' existance, his empty tomb remains in Israel. It is public historical knowledge that has been passed down that it remains there. It is visited daily by tourists. History proves Jesus.

  • alenajoy

    Thank you! I love your Descartes quote, "Conquer yourself....not the world."

  • http://www.facebook.com/ElmoPutz David Foster

    The fact that you have little or no physical evidence of Jesus' existence is quite a weak argument for proof that he never existed. They didn't have birth certificates back in the day. And in most cases, only the legacies of the very wealthy would survive their death. Jesus (as the story goes) was neither a wealthy individual; nor was he much liked by the more influential people in his community. Such people have a way of disappearing from official records.

    Besides.. I am sure that most (if not all) of the stories in the book began life as small, localized events, which, after so many years of being told around the campfire, ballooned into the epic sagas we know today. Jesus --an otherwise unremarkable anti-Roman activist who found himself nailed to a tree-- was probably one of them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ElmoPutz David Foster

    That's what religion is, BTW... **The 6:00 News from two thousand years ago, as told by little Billy's Boy Scout troop.**

    Journalism is what grew out of the ashes.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Miika-Vanhapiha/1314636614 Miika Vanhapiha

    They were not real footprints, and not presented as such. Instead they were carved close to the grave/tomb - a tradition found in Asia.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=70402573 Robbie Walters

    maybe acceptance means to not be belligerent against anothers world view? to not feel the need to defend your own views, but just believe them?

  • http://www.facebook.com/alKidya Kim Scott Bruce

    That religion professor at Yale sounds like he is criticizing the gospels rather than interpreting them.

  • http://www.facebook.com/alKidya Kim Scott Bruce

    Namaste!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1237497224 Bryan Thomas

    damn.. Jesus got around. He must've had MAD frequent flyer miles. lol

  • geff matt

    stupid... i have stopped watching this.....i dont want to get myself into anything which relents the intensity of my faith in jesus

  • Achems_Razor

    @geff matt,

    if you are so intense in your faith in your Jesus why should anything bother you, or is it you are scared this might jar you from your comfort zone. Not close minded are you?

  • rottenegg90210

    Wow this guy might have really immersed himself into reincarnation and other such things which many people might find preposterous. Contrary to that, he is one of many many people in this world who always spared a room for thought when it comes to religion. If you give this man's words a chance and via some research we would find a little bit of truth to all this. Did Jesus really travel the world and learn from other religions?

    I honestly don't know, neither does anyone. We were not there! I do respect the bible and there is truth to it(no doubt about it). But the bible was censored and that's a fact. Almost all the religions advice of the same principles and teaching, which is a very big coincidence. The gentleman in this documentary is only describing his journey of self- enlightenment.Like most of us he was confused, curious to connect the dots, make some sense out of it.

    His in-depth translation of the Gospel of Judas falls under the same pattern as any " Holy Book" would. Finding the good, defeating the evil (negative) and such. For me reviewing some of the facts raise a doubt.

    For example, the old empires or people in general were not as knowledgeable as today. They hardly travelled across the world because it was hard.They didn't have newspapaers, newscasts like the present. Lots of scriptures were destroyed (censored). They were altered to fit our need or methods of control. We are not fully aware of the truth
    and may never will be. William shakespear is another instance. We don't know if he authored all his books !

    Some sources say that we don't even have his picture. The facts that are coming forth now are so disparate from what we have studied and believed for so many years. When its comes to hsitory we are still discovering new things.

    There are infinite possibilities. Where some people will just hold on to their faith and swear by it; the others confused, desperate to quench their thirst for finding answers will go for what we have, the facts, and the new things we discover along the path.

  • gsjikwblao

    This "Bible" you speak of is the Bible that is being "removed" (misinterpreted) to facilitate personal agenda which is natural given the current state of our nature. These interpretations all retain contradictions. If you eliminate these contradictions the only way you can, through the consistent application of figurative meanings for certain words, The Bible reveals itself to be a detailed description of the process by which the human race evolves from a base level convicting conscience to one of increased motivation. In this interpretation which has no contradiction, "Jesus" is not a physical man at all, but is a figurative reference to our convicting consciences. This is the manner in which we are inter-connected, the "vine" of which we are all "branches", so to speak. It is significant to note that the Bible itself gives the figurative meanings that reveal this interpretation.

    This "truth" may be hid in other books as well that were inspired by extended contact with the collective subconscious.

    The word "slave" is a figurative reference to a convicting conscience that is held in a low-lying state of influence by the destructive influence of the fear generating intellectual reasoning to which it is yoked. This is the same thing as a "Jesus" asleep in the hinder part of the ship or a "Jesus" lying dead in the grave for two days (the last two thousand years) to resurrect on the third day, so to speak.

    It is right for you to reject any book that justifies slavery. Your convicting conscience will not allow you to accept it.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ADPCNFVAYRN2TSSQPRJAPVDGWQ Darryl P

    Your Right my friend!! When the Bible says you can't kill or steal That's what it means you CAN'T KILL or STEAL because There is no Death or possessions to Steal.

  • http://www.facebook.com/andreasaparis Andreas Paris

    "The Bible reveals itself to be a detailed description of the process by which the human race evolves from a base level", so you say.
    This is true if you consider that this "detailed description" is nothing else but copy (as many other stories in the OT) from older Sumerian and Babylonian clay tablets.

  • gsjikwblao

    Yes, you are correct in pointing out the common denominators that exist between the Bible and much earlier writings. This is because this understanding began to emerge by way of the collective sub-conscious a very long time ago. in fact, 13.7 billion years ago. This is when "causation", which drives all forms of change began.

    The earliest writings were modified and completed by what most people consider to be different writings. This process culminated in the form of what we call "the Bible" which is nothing more then the "end of the line" so to speak.

    The new interpretation of the Bible tells us that love, born of the need for a diametrically opposed motivation, generated physical existence and the process of causation to produce consciousness anchored to the individual perspective of separate physical bodies, which, by the same causation driven evolutionary process, produces convicting consciences of increased motivation whereby the destructive nature of the former is subdued. This can be understood as a necessary development if consciousness anchored to individual perspective is to survive itself.

    The new interpretation also tells us that this happens when a sufficient amount of love flows away from people who are driven by fear of physical discomfort to avoid the threat that love poses to their escalating wealth. This measure of motivating force does not cease to exist, but compresses stressfully into others who are driven by significant convictions of conscience to engage the influence of the same.

    It also tells us that the decisions we make that we see as evidence of free will are themselves the natural product of a preceding process of causation.

    It also tells us that the universe is cycling and it is the exact same universe in each cycle.

    It also gives much more detail about this process of change which I have not seen in the earlier writings that you mentioned but you are correct in pointing out that the basic framework was in place long before the Bible finally "gelled", so to speak.

    The Bible is not one book in competition with others, They all were formed by the same process of causation that formed everything else.

  • gsjikwblao

    It is not the brain that regenerates, it is the convicting conscience, which is what we are fundamentally. Our physical bodies are a diametrically opposed motivation to which "we" are subjected and our personalities (brains) reveal the strength or weakness of our convicting consciences. Convicting consciences, which are "souls" die only after long periods of rejection by fear generating intellectual reasoning after multiple passages through physical existence. As the life giving flow of love withdraws, it (or if you like "He") compresses into other consciences moving them into an increased sensitivity state driving mechanical intellect to discover this fundamental pattern. The guilty feeling we have all experienced when rejecting our own conviction of conscience is our direct contact with the withdraw of love and a warning from the same that "we" are moving toward death.

  • capriciouz

    Nothing you said refutes what I said whatsoever. You just went on and on with woowoo nonsense. I have one very simple question for you: If reincarnation is real, it would obviously have to apply to everyone -- so -- how exactly does the population increase?

    Duh?

  • fooboy

    capriciouz, your right reincarnation is a debatable topic, but so is alot of other things in religion. Like the resurrection of Jesus (very debatable indeed). I guess what we keep in mind is we all have our opinions that suits us best in our frame of mind. But what most Debate is the Dogma involved in most all religions, that's the real cause for debate not whether it's fact or not. In our modern day fact is not raising from the dead, and neither did GOD give PALESTINE TO THE JEWS, to be honest these are just superstitions that suit our position. Really comes down to human psychology and the law of nature in all things.

  • gsjikwblao

    Thank you for your response. I do not have an answer for the question that you asked.

    Thank you.

  • steven smith

    Population according to some ancient indian texts say to get a rebirth in this plane is like picking the spot in the ocean where a turtle head will bop up hmmm to me that sounds like there is a lot of souls to me waiting , then there is countless other gurus and mystics talking about the luck of a birth in this realm its one of very few where the soul can evolve on, its a cosmic evolutionary speedhump because of the freewill issue we have. You need to read some scripts man understand soul level starts with granite then plants , animals and of course humans now as i understand the process you need to think of darwinism on a grander scale . Edgar Cayce a famous american psychic is always an interesting read at how soul evolution works this guy was a strict christian with no reincarnation beliefs in a waking state . This guy is pretty much a revolutionist as far as diet and modern medicine go. So called new breakthoughs was in his readings from the 30s and 40s and thats with stuff thats tangable . There are also conversations with the spirits of the goeita that go into depth about souls and evolution that will cross reference with the edgar cayce readings and let me tell you all of them have a message about this day and age and that is stop being a left brained rational thinker swap hemisheres be a realist and a dreamer keep your beliefs open man science may be the best way to measure for fact but its constantly rewriting itself . My only advice dont beat up on creationalist try to understand how they think and keep your beliefs open . Peace mate

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Dennis-Kautz/100000759847300 Dennis Kautz

    To me, it is very intriguing to think that Jesus learned much from the Vedas and was buried in India. There's no question his teachings were heretical to the orthodoxy of the time and they paralleled or echoed Vedic ideas.

    Whether or not you believe this or if Jesus even existed, the underlying truth of Christianity, Gnosticism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. is that the answers are within. The oneness/stillness/vortex/subtle body or whatever you want to call it transcends all spirituality and religion at its core. Many, if not all, religions have been bastardized throughout history by a control system or an influential person or collective consciousness who tried to quantify the unquantifiable, which can be an open slate for malice or ego to prevail.

  • Alex Baron

    One thing bothers me is an incorrect reference to the trip of a Jesus to Lhasa Tibet at the time of his travels. The first reference about the city has not been made until 600's of CE. If everything else in this movie has the same level of accuracy, then judge by yourself a validity of other concepts...

  • http://www.facebook.com/bill.etall.t Billy McTalty

    Reincarnation would be not just to humans but to all creatures and plants. So, the increase in some species doesn't show an increase in all things. we cut down a tree and a man is born, perhaps there is a connection?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Josh-Smosh/100002571924503 Josh Smosh

    I was really enjoying this video until that arrogant turd was brought in to give his anal speculation on this subject, I guess because he is a funny guy? And maybe this video needed someone funny? He isn't funny, and he's a turd.

    UPDATE: Couldn't stomach this bozo, had to speed forward, hope I didn't miss anything important. Whoever decided to put him in, you're fired.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/DeAnno-Isom/1368900884 DeAnno Isom

    It is believed by those who accept the idea of reincarnation that our world (meaning earth) is not the only place in existence. Therefore population could increase due to reincarnations from other worlds.

  • capriciouz

    And this belief is based upon what, exactly? You're simply padding your original nonsense with MORE nonsense in a feeble attempt to try and MAKE sense. I can't stand how much humility people like you lack, it drives me absolutely bonkers. I have presented you with a completely bullet proof rebuttal to your claims and instead of stopping and acknowledging the validity of what I've told you, you're forced to contort reality itself in order to hold on to "being right."

    Such arrogance literally holds one hostage from ever making any sort of intellectual progress.

  • http://twitter.com/funklemonde jude arsenault

    i wish you hadn't used stephen colbert.he really takes away from the quality of this documentary.

  • Keith Armstong

    Did jesus really exist, that is an unanswered question as no evidence has ever been found to back up the claim... no jewish nor roman histories mention such a person during the claimed period. That would be like omitting Churchill or Hitler during a history of 1935-1945.

  • D Hall

    If Jesus' ministry was not reaching a large audience yet - at the time of his death, then no, a lack of historical reference in our incomplete references, would be nothing like omitting Churchill or Hitler during 1935-1945.

  • glfossil

    I agree with you dennis. If you have ever read the book titled i beleive its called "The Power of Now" by echkhart tolle, then youll realize most religions point to the same ideas of what spirituality is. We are great human beings (most of us) weather poor or rich or black or white. If you read this book you will understand the concept of time is non existant, meaning that the present moment is all we ever have. While youre reading this reply youre action of reading it is fading away into the past. What you do right now is the only realization. When you become fully present and conscious that what we percieve as reality is only what we can conceptually feel through our five senses. Knowing the truth that everything in the universe is actually connected since the beginning of time, and knowing everything is basically perception then you can see the world in a different way. As for myself I just beleive in a higher power. Most religions agree ( I think) that god is outside of time itself. Also a good documentary that is scientifically proven is What the Bleep do you know. It explains how quantum physics defines our universe and how matter which has always been here is not created nor destroyed. All the energy that is in the universe stays in the universe. it also explains how the universe if forever expanding.

  • Carl Hendershot

    Pure crap. Anyone notice how realistic those foot prints were of Bigfoot? Sorry this film was on acid.

  • Sherman Monro

    Excellent doc, thank you.

  • Sherman Monro

    wow! thank you trumpsahead you said it all.

  • Sherman Monro

    true!

  • http://www.facebook.com/jack.placid Okbe Mehretab

    i believe jesus died for our sins on Jerusalem (like the bible says) and resurected and is seated at the right side of god. i dont believe this doctrine, not now, not later

  • rush rana

    The Kingdom Of God IS Within You. Leo Tolstoy.

  • Genkai

    with all due respect, i disagree with you and the people agreeing with you. only because the very god you speak of also condones and commands, murder, rape, infanticide, cannibalism(familial) and many other absurdities and atrocities.

    Aside from there being no evidence for your claims using the bible as a source is flawed on many levels.

    your comment was made years ago so I dont know if this will reach you and maybe you have done more research about tombs and scripture since. i appreciate you taking time to comment on this vid. later

  • Rodrigo Jerome Concha

    the fact that this guy from yale is so uneducated that he can't even make an educated guess as to what that means is actually extremely pathetic, he doesn't even make an attempt he just gives up. What kind of quote "Ivy League education" is that?