My Brother the Islamist

2011 ,    »  -   178 Comments
315
7.55
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Ratings: 7.55/10 from 69 users.
Storyline
My Brother the Islamist

Barking, East London, patriotic crowds gather as a regiment of soldiers from the 1st Battalion of Royal Anglians return home from Afghanistan. The author of the documentary, Robb Leech, is there to see a soldier too.

But he's not in the British Army. In fact he really hates the Army. He hates freedom and democracy. He thinks women should be covered up in public and that they should be stoned to death for adultery.

But this man isn't a radical militant from the mountains of Afghanistan. He's no ordinary Muslim. He's a white, middle class, 27 year old from the seaside town in Dorset. He's also Robb's stepbrother.

Rich and Robb are both from Weymouth. They were born and raised there... in a typical seaside town. Rich left for London and didn't come back. Robb stayed, preferring being on the beach. Just a while ago, Robb could have never imagined how their lives would take such different paths.

Rich is supporting the concept of Jihad, as a part of being a Muslim. He fully submits to the one who created him. He says that if you got the full fate you're obviously prepared to give up your life and do whatever else in order to prepare for the judgment day. Rich changed his name to Salahuddin, although Robb have always known him as Richard.

Robb's dad married Rich's mom in 1992 and they were close while growing up. Rich being older than Robb, he looked up to him, but after his move they grew apart. Their family holiday to Cyprus in 2008 was the last time he saw Richard. They shared a room and talked late into the night about God and the Universe. He was clearly looking for something and a year later he'd found it.

Robb came across an article about radical Islamist, Anjem Choudary, someone who believed in imposing a worldwide Islamic state and dubbed as the most dangerous man in Britain. Four paragraphs down was Richard's name and the name of their hometown Weymouth. He'd become one of the Choudary's newest converts. Rich talked about his willingness to fight and die for his beliefs, his hatred of the West and his desire to impose Sharia Law and make Britain an Islamic state.

Even now their family is still struggling to come to terms with it all, and that's why Robb made this film, to help them understand. So why didn't Rich just become an ordinary Muslim? Why he has turned his back on the world he grew up in? Will Robb ever reconnect with his extremist stepbrother?

Directed by: Robb Leech

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178 Comments / User Reviews

  1. Lenny

    Everyone needs to see this.

  2. Your Name

    Lack of spirituality, higher purpose, and meaning of existence is the reason people are drawn to movements like this. We live in a world of material abundance, comfort, and technological advancement, but our souls are starving. Its the main cause of mass shootings, bombings, drug abuse, alcoholism and mental issues in the western world. Living in a profit motivated and consumer society has its drawbacks. I can understand his motive for joining Islam, but fighting fire with fire is not going to work. This is just plain age old wisdom. Every person can change the world for the better, by doing a little bit on their part, and it doesn't involve joining any religion, or club, or organization. If you want more kindness in the world, be kind to others. If you want more compassion and understanding, be compassionate and understanding of others. If you want love, then spread love, and so forth, and so forth...That is all it takes. Like Gandhi said "Be the change, you seek in the world", or something like that.

  3. tariqxl

    I was actually gonna give it a miss... But ok I'll watch lol

  4. dufas_duck

    If a male Muslim gets 72 virgins when he dies, what does a female Muslim get when she dies???

  5. dewflirt

    Peace at last ;)

  6. pwndecaf

    I found it very watchable, also. Glad I did watch. Not really much to learn but is another example of religion driving people apart - even brothers. I found it disheartening but honest.

  7. Kateye70

    I wonder where they get all those virgins from?
    Do they have to stay virgin?
    If so, what's the point?
    If not, why would anyone want 72
    inexperienced sex partners?
    Where did that number come
    from, anyway?
    What happens after they're not virgin anymore?
    Do they get replaced by new virgins?
    Do the no-longer-virgins get their own 72 virgins?
    Are the virgins girls or boys?
    A mix of both?
    The questions are endless!

  8. tariqxl

    You forgot the most important one.

    What about the marytrs wife when she dies?
    some family value that is.

  9. tariqxl

    Now I haven't got a comment... Well said!

  10. dufas_duck

    Maybe the females get their virginity back???

  11. Pysmythe

    I believe that mostly happens in Japan.

  12. Kateye70

    What about the boy virgins?

  13. dufas_duck

    Does Allah give it back to the Japanese or is it a plastic surgeon ???

  14. Dolly_Brasco

    second...

  15. Pysmythe

    Yes. :)

  16. dufas_duck

    What about the boy virgins?.....

    They are part of the 72..............

  17. David Bruce Powers

    Muslims, Christians, Jews, et al----All theists are deluded believers in fairy tales. Wake the F up... This is the 21st century. Peace and Love to all from a spiritual Atheist with a capital A.

  18. DigiWongaDude

    Exactamundo!

  19. DigiWongaDude

    Good girls go to heaven, bad girls go everywhere...

    ...that'd be one pretty p*ssed-off 'good girl'.

  20. dewflirt

    Probably a mistranslation, they're going to hot foot it into heaven only to be met by the toothless grin of one excited 72 year old virgin - Cliff Richard singing Willie and the Hand Jive ;)

  21. Pysmythe

    In any case, I think I can see what most of us on this thread are interested in, lol.

  22. DigiWongaDude

    Classic! :-D

  23. over the edge

    no wonder the religions don't get along. they approach their issues completely differently. one says you have to blow yourself up and wait til after you die for your virgins. the other says why bother with all that just become a priest and have them now

  24. DigiWongaDude

    Hey I'm just sitting here trying to write code...and I've got my 1st dual monitor setup going here...this is hilariously distracting!

  25. I AM POP SLAG.

    Veiled and ignored- same as when alive. oh and buried within 24hrs...

  26. I AM POP SLAG.

    Totally insane people, Richard is well...hes barry from 4 lions isnt he?
    "we got people playing musical instruments!- women talking back!"

  27. Pysmythe

    A likely story, lol. I've had a dual-monitor setup for a few years now, but you probably don't want to know what my wallpapers are... :)

  28. DigiWongaDude

    I MUST send you an email...I've got VLC fine tuned on XP to...damn it man, read faster, the cops are comin'...to turn my static wallpaper into live video with a backtrack and...[user deactivated]

  29. Pysmythe

    Or Chuck Berry singing 'My Ding-a-Ling,' after which he'll be booted out of heaven... for tax-evasion.

  30. Bozman419

    The carnal desire to want a virgin in place of an experienced sex partner is gross!!? I remember when i was young and was with a girl for her first time... Lets just say sex is alot better these days. To be looking forward to 72 virgins says something about a man. ie: He should be in jail.

  31. fhade

    Religious people are always mocking and disrespecting god by putting words into His mouth and accusing him of thing he probably never did... let god speak for himself. Stop choosing random scripture to your leaders liking, packaging it as koran and forcing those papers into gods mouth Show some respect to your own god at least.

    When god want to say anything he will say it loud and clear.

    Why do muslims show extreme disrespect toward god by mutilating the perfect penis god gave them and cutting of the perfect hair and nails their god gave them.

  32. DegenerateFTW

    I actually sympathise with the feelings about the degradation of our society. Our moral compass as a people is horribly skewed. Is this the way forward though? Of course not. It's just bitter people reacting in extreme ways. I couldn't take the main two lads seriously in the slightest I'm afraid. Spouting 'Inshalla' at every given opportunity just seemed to destroy their credibility. They seem to know a lot more about how to hate or disrespect non-muslims than they know about Islam itself. I'm sure it involves more than cutting off your foreskin, handing out leaflets, growing a beard and learning a few 'keywords'.

  33. Lenny

    Well said.

  34. dmxi

    "well,it's allah'n 'at,innit?" - soft spoken words of wisdom shared by a true spiritual soul with peace in his heart.

  35. John Oswald

    Sad story of one man going nowhere, actually he was sentenced to 6 years in prison April on terrorist related charges.

    As for the 17 year old he should look in the mirror and have a good look. I felt sorry for his mother who was trying to make the best of it, but you could see that she is worried sick by the whole situation. The only thing is that this was filmed two years ago, and we can only hope that he has grown up, and seen the error of his ways and grown up.

  36. Rachid Talal

    I wonder why people always make this stupid and terribly populistic unscientific non-sense mistake stereotype while approaching a great religion such as islam :

    islam= muslims or islam = some or just 1 muslim's behavior .

    Silly really .

    Muslims' behavior should be tested by the sources of islam, folks, not otherwise , not the other way around .

    It would also be stupid to judge judaism or christianity for that matter by the behavior of some christian or jewish lunatics fanatics , don't you think ?

    What if atheism = the behavior of a given atheist ? Wrong assumption of course .

    Do not forget that this is the time of muslims ' decline, not islam's .

    See how muslims were in the golden time of islam that will return in the future .

    So, most current muslims are certainly not representative of islam .

    A long story thus .

  37. I AM POP SLAG.

    yes tolerance et etc. but it still doesnt excuse religioh for being essentially the oldest form of bullsh** in all the history of mass, militarily organised, hysteria inducing. machiavellian, two faced, manipulative,deceptive bulls*it.

    Put simply... its actually fraud- fantastic claims require fantastic evidence-for instance the church could be sued under the sales of goods act because we havent taken delivery of jesus and the earth is f***ed.

    i defend peoples right to be deluded all they want but when they gang up and start with the weird rituals its all a bit much...

    To actually deny the existence of tons of verifiable scientific data that disprove their hokey backwoods madness and in the same breath claim wizards in the sky? ffs What ARE you 7-year old?

    remember when your uncle told you he was power ranger? guess what ? sorry to disappoint but it was fantasy

    same as a magical place where you apparently get a crate of booze and numerous virgins for blowing yourself all to s(it.
    wtf? religion? just s(it it- its utter bollocks and jesus isnt coming and the world wont be muslim and you are f(cking mad.

    ...for that is what it is... to believe in the unbelievable

    madness- yes! you too buddha sorry! it would be nice if that was how it worked and karmic realignment would sort it all out(just like jesus)
    but bulls*it often sounds good doesnt it?

  38. Hodd

    Better yet, let's put the concept of god back in the correct context, such as an understanding of reality, or consciousness, or something within yourself. It was a valid philosophical idea until abused by political power and religious institutions.

  39. Jack1952

    Maybe they're not representative of Islam but where is your condemnation of Rich's brand of Islam? They incite hatred, intolerance, violence and the ultimately the imposition of Islamic law into Britain but all you can say is that most Muslims don't follow Islam the way it is supposed to be followed. Why doesn't the average Muslim Brit speak out in indignation at the teaching of Choudary and his ilk? Could it be that most Muslims believe in his message to a certain extent? Just like all Christians believe that all mankind should turn to Christ, Muslims think all should turn to Islam. With it comes the ideology and the imposition of Sharia Law. While they think that these guys are too extreme in their views, they dare not criticize a fellow Muslim in case it might offend Allah and this carries with it the retribution that is promised, repeatedly, in the Koran. They remain strangely quiet, thereby, giving their tacit approval of extremist groups and their activities.

  40. Dean Edgington

    But god doesn’t speak loud and clear, never has. Apparently he's had a few books written but not only do they contradict each other (not to mention contradict themselves) they are full of indecipherable clap-trap and bat s*!t crazy nonsense. God, (let’s pretend there is one), has yet to utter his first words.

  41. Dean Edgington

    I'm with you on the pressumption of people claiming to speak for or represent god and the mutilation points.

  42. JESSE

    I find it interesting that when Rich is under a bit of pressure in Waywerth that he says " you're entitled to your beliefs" when in reality he wants to take those beliefs away and impose Sharia Law.. Islam is evil. PERIOD

  43. Md Sabri

    Islam is good, Islam from Allah, Islam for all people :)

  44. MalOdour

    Religion is a form of mental illness just like gambling and can never be stopped and we will never have peace.

  45. Rachid Talal

    Well, my friend :

    I do find these muslims a shame to us all : an understatement . .

    I do condemn them and even despise them .They are so hypocrit , dumb , ugnorant , backward , intolerant ,,,,You name it .

    See how jews , christians ...used to enjoy their God given freedom, freedom of belief ...even under dominant islam during the glory time of islam ...

    Islam must never be imposed to people , in any way : that's a basic islamic teaching , especially not to non-muslims or to non -muslim countries .

    That's why i said that this is the time of muslims ' decline ,which means that most current muslims are far far far below the level of islam .

    See the glory time of islam ...

    I am really stunned by the behavior and words of these muslim lunatics freaks ...What can i say ...
    I am more deeply hurt and extremely offended by their behavior and words than any non-muslim can ever be ....simply because they do not reflect the tolerant spirit and love of islam for all mankind , not even remotely close .

    They should be put behind bars where they belong , because of the hatred , the intolerance , hurt ....they incite ...

    .............

  46. Rachid Talal

    What a bunch of scary ignorant primitive backward , dumb , intolerant ...lunatics freaks really are these muslims , islam has not much to do with .

    I am a muslim myself. and i am deeply ashamed by them .

    I happened to watch " Warm bodies " movie the day before ,and believe me when i tell you that i identified them with those infected blood suckers in the movie : i thought i was watching that movie again when i was watching this video ,really .

    I think that we , the moderate muslims , should unite with the decent western people in order to defeat both our extremists and yours , both our governments and yours , as the message of "warm bodies " go .

    Universal love is certainly not just a christian or humanistic value , it's an islamic one also , so .

  47. Rachid Talal

    I think that that Richard so-called convert to islam might be an MI5 or MI6 agent to infiltrate those extremist muslim groups : just an idea , i do not know for sure .

    Reminds me of some jewish so-called converts to islam who were shouting in NY after the 911 that non-muslims must be terrorized , killed ...

    Very suspicious folks .

    So, folks, please do watch these surreal guys in the video with a critical mind , especially in these deceptive full of lies times.

  48. Rachid Talal

    Islam must not be imposed to people=basic islamic teaching .

    And even if those muslim freaks really wanna impose sharia law to Britain, as they say at least , they will never be able to do such a stupid unislamic and especially totally unrealistic thing : see the balance of power they do not seem to take into consideration .

    And even if islam , someday ,say, would become dominant again, just for the sake of disscussion then , islam is severly and extremely against getting imposed to people .

    So, those muslim lunatics are very wrong from the reality standpoint , from the perspective of the current balance of power in the world and from the standpoint of islam himself they pretend to serve ...

    I think thus that their stupid behavior and words must be interpreted from the socio-economic and psychological point of view ...not from the islamic one.

  49. Roger Brown

    How wrong you are! You have no more right than any other religion. All religions are man made and man kills in it's name or God's name. Those who read the holy books, may read them but they still don't understand what the holy book is really meaning. I presume the holy book only preaches good but it seems that man has to pervert it into his own selfish ways and ideals. It does not impress me and those who try to force it on to us non believers will suffer a bad disappointment. Mother Earth will decide what is good for us......

  50. Rachid Talal

    If those muslim idiots clowns would even try thinking of imposing sharia law in any so-called islamic country even , they would be instantly disposed of = an understatement .
    They are so unrealistic , unislamic and stupid ...

    They should be psychoanalyzed ....

    Try to find the roots of their behavior in their psyche , in their socio-economic circumstances ....then.

  51. Roger Brown

    I like what you say. :-)

  52. Rachid Talal

    Religion is certainly not the problem ,some believers are
    They themselves choose what to make of it : they can either turn religion into a force of good or into a force of evil .

    ,that's why is the free will so central in islam
    That's why there will be a reckoning in the after-life for deeds and words of people which originated from their God given free will and freedom.

    They will be judged according to their deeds and words in this life ...

    P.S.: The great persian mystic poet Hafiz said once : or in words to that same effect at least :

    If someone sits with me and we talk about the BELOVED

    If i cannot give his heart comfort

    If i cannot make him feel good about himself and this world .

    Then, Hafiz ,

    Quickly run to the mosque and pray

    For you have just committed the only sin i know

    Note :" the only sin i know" contains all sins .

  53. Rachid Talal

    It's easy to say that all religions are man made = unscientific groundless assumption generalization = THE lethal thought error of all racists , xenophobes, idiots , fanatics ....

    My latter generalization has a solid ground .

    Some religions are man made , not all of them .

  54. Rachid Talal

    You are making a groundless unscientific generalization assumption = a lethal thought error .

    You cannot put all religions in the same basket : they even all disagree on the very definition of religion itself ,its role and function, purpose ....

    And most of religions are indeed man-made and are full of crap , yes indeed ,
    And yes, religion can be mis-used as an ends to power , yes .

    That's why is the free will so central in islam : you can choose to make of islam what you wanna make of it : you can either turn it into a source of evil or into a source of good : and you will be judged for that accordingly.

  55. Wayne Siemund

    This is really no different from the youth movement of fundamentalist Christianity in the US. That same self aggrandizing superiority of the group image. The same narrow focus on ritual and rhetoric.

  56. Rachid Talal

    Indeed.
    They are really full of s*it dumb hypocrits lunatics.They serve only their own egos,They mis-use islam for their own purposes .

    They miss the whole point of physical material spiritual mental intellectual social personal economic political ....and psychological growth or evolution islam is all about .

    They should try to be better persons themselves before they could pretend to improve others .

    They also lack education , pedagogy , sensitivity , they lack the sense of priorities, common sense ..........

    They are a destabilizing divisive factor for their environment and communities .........

    Too much crippling "qualities ' to be found combined together in single individuals ...pathetic.and lethal + scary .

    They really need help ...

    Muslims of relative wisdom, Psychologists and sociologists , not to mention anthropologists and other experts should help them ...before they could provoke any more negative effects for themselves and their environment .

    They are a ticking bomb waiting to ...explode ...That;s their own way of calling for help , subconsciously .

  57. dmxi

    the situation of feeling hopeless in a complex world with all ist fallacies & temptations,leading to distress & anger,is never a good basis for one's own soul search in a foreign belief system (masked as the true religion)....believing, due to it's minority being a worthy advessary of one's own cultural counterpart,will produce a satisfying life solution;will painstakingly lead to the moment when the search will take on a different direction like life always does....& the past will be peer reviewed with a blushed face.....as in :"what the hell was i thinking?"!

  58. Roger Brown

    "THE lethal thought error of all racists , xenophobes, idiots , fanatics ....".

    Once again wrong. You did not listen, which a lot of us are guilty of. Your thoughts are not deep enough and you are not aware of the reality we all live in and things will go on as they are and consequences will be very serious very soon and none of us will win.

    Thanks for your reply......

  59. I AM POP SLAG.

    Its all still bulls*it- profound insight into the human condition may even be the contents of some religions if thoughtfully studied but organised? massive? belief "SYSTEMS?". your bulls*it book written by a warlord who simply wanted everyone to crawl around fawning to him and kissing his arse- if you cant see that this was the motivation behind your sacred text after reading it then you are an i*iot ,plain and simple.
    Its a book about magic you are convinced is somehow magic?
    just think about that please and how ridiculous you sound to people who havent been indoctrinated.
    Western society is getting s*itty... we agree-
    it wasnt a problem for anyone while the oil was still flowing... but god aint fixing it and neither is making your wife wear a bag on her head.
    bonkers

  60. Chupacabra

    Actually, it differs greatly from any current manifestation of organized Christianity for one very important reason: Christianity does not encourage its adherents to kill those whom they cannot convert. Some may deny that this is their teaching, but none can deny the mentality it has fostered.

  61. Rachid Talal

    Well. i was really listening but i just disagree with hollow populistic generalizations as groundless thought errors .

    I don't see how the latters can inspire any deep thinking .

    Anyway, don't mind that . I do get your point .There is a lots of misery done by believers in the name of God ...as there is a lots bulls*it done by atheists in the name of freedom, free speech ...

    I do share your pessimism or realism though : things will get much worse indeed, i am afraid ,and we all will be losers as a result .

    I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel as a result of these mutual man made hatred , hostility , misunderstanding , demonizations...between the west and muslims .

    Let's hope we will be both wrong about that .

    Hope is good .

    Let's hope for the best and prepare for the worse then .

    Thanks , buddy, appreciate indeed.

    All the best .

  62. Rachid Talal

    Richard the so-called convert to islam is most probably an MI5 or MI6 agent to infiltrate those dumb muslim extremists, i guess.
    People do not change totally as he seems to do .
    I don't know for sure ,but it's a probability ,so.

  63. Md Sabri

    AL QURAN , Injil , Taurat , Zabur comes from ALLAH.

  64. Kevin

    This whole thing felt like Ali G Goes Al Queda.

  65. Wayne Siemund

    I like how you placed the qualifier "current" in that sentence. It allows you to dismiss the long history of Christianity and it's atrocities and only focus on today.

  66. Percy

    As soon as I heard Choudary's name I thought another MI5 asset.

  67. dean

    I really doubt it and I notice you doubt it too.

  68. dean

    In short, I felt these "kids" have been indoctrinated into a dangerous cult of sorts.

  69. dean

    true but only if you exclude the Bush family or the pantyhoe moistening desires of ultra-right winged nuts like Coulter and Geller etc...

  70. dean

    So a certain band of Muslims are behind the (organized Christian) times? Yeah I agree but I've had many Christians condemn me to H*LL with glee and smiles. They want god to kill me and roast my soul in agony for all eternity because THEY have FAILED to convince me they are right. "That same self aggrandizing superiority of the group image. The same narrow focus on ritual and rhetoric." to quote Wayne Siemund.

  71. dean

    True, and some Christians are still up to no good. Misdirection and scapegoating are the sword and shield of the latterday “crusader” - when not engaged in black-ops, dubious wars and flagrant geo-political manipulation, which is never!

    I say this trying not to ignore the complexities of geo-politics...

  72. truth be told

    sad, sweet girl. as long as every single word in the "holy recital" is holy-- and people take it literally-- islam will be a problem. the real problem with islam is that almost no moderate muslims who are willing to say that. as long as every word in holy a lot of evil will get done, cuz the religion was created in the 5th century by a man who suffered from temporal lobe epilepsy was most probably sexually molested as a child and did indeed marry and have sex with a child himself. yes, for him to have temporal lobe epilepsy and not know what it was I can sort of forgive him and hundreds of years of muslims for thinking it was some divine connection or the truth. but the fact that this old s*upid stuff still works on u... is really sad. easy way to prove it's all bullsh8t-- the oldest quran in the world is in india, and it's written in Syrian Aramaic and guess what? there are differences from Arabic version. Arabic wasn't even a written language when islam was created-- or first written down. grow up and realize there are only so many ways interpret the verse of the sword.

    more importantly, anything that doesn't change breaks. sometimes it creates a big mess-- but u guys don't admit the religion should be changed-- no instead you a promote a religion that subjugates women in dozens of countries.

  73. Animalia

    Who the hell is Mother Earth?

  74. Animalia

    First of all learn some respect for religious leaders, and i'm speaking in general. Second, get your facts right. The oldest Quran in the world is in Uzbekistan, the only other surviving copy is in Turkey. Actually Arabic was a written language, and the Quran was written in Arabic. No of course the religion should remain intact, why would anyone want to change the word of God, unless it prevents them from doing whatever they wish. God will protect his Final Message.

  75. Rachid Talal

    I also suspect that those British so-called converts to islam are some agents indeed to infiltrate those muslim groups .

    They seem so odd

  76. Rachid Talal

    Al Qaeda does not exist .Hallooo

  77. Rachid Talal

    I said i don't know for sure .That's not always the same as doubting it

  78. Rachid Talal

    The west must acknowledge its historic imperialistic and neo-imperialistic history of today and yesterday in creating muslim dissent and extremism .
    Blame it on yourselves , guys . Or on your own criminal governments , to be more precize .
    Well, those governments were elected ones, i presume, so.

    Folks, try to deal with your own demons first before condemning those of others , i must add .

    See how your terrorist states have been behaving all these years and centuries worlwide, including in the so-called islamic countries .

    One should also make the difference between religious extremism and religious legetimate resistance against western and israeli imperialism ...

    Edward Said was so right in saying that the west had created its own projected images of the east ....

    Instead of dealing with your own demons, you also prefer to project them on others .

    Way to go, folks .

    P.S.: Islam is not the problem, some muslims are and western governments are ...so.

    Those western governments are the problem thus and they are your own responsibility because you presumebly had elected them

    All this s*it is the product of geo-politics , economics and balance of power , folks + all this shit is the product of western and israeli imperialism , domination, injustices ....

    The product of your imperialistic paternalistic racist Eurocentrism.....

  79. Rachid Talal

    "We are all eager to accuse and judge others in order to avoid being accused or judged ourselves " Albert Camus : Literature Nobel prize winner .

  80. Guest

    religion is cancer. chopping on your penis really? If god really exists, Why would god give you that extra skin? just to get it cut off? why would he give you two hands and then bar you from using the left? Oh that's right because this religion is brainwashing, and it is not true. You moderate Muslim's should abandon your faith entirely. The only semi religious book I will ever be interested in is the tao te ching, and even still I don't accept it as some be all end all. Taoism, Buddhism have interesting idea's much more sane then any of these monotheistic religions. The best part is you don't have to cut your penis to be interested in something that is more of a philosophy then a religion. Also we are the descendants of apes, and the methods of science were able to go far beyond these philosophies. Islam is cancer

  81. Rachid Talal

    Well, that's your own western cultural fairy tale you have been repeating with no self-criticism or thinking that you confuse with the truth .
    I cannot blame you for that in fact : you are just yet another victim of your own imperialistic paternalistic racist Eurocentric western culture propaganda : it's a fact , no offense .
    You have displayed here no serious arguments to deal with ,so.
    Sweet dreams in your own wonderland, Alice.

    P.S.: I am not a girl , i am a guy,

  82. Ramon Roman

    For 2000 years a particular religion has been preaching what its so called holy book says, the same way the other religion wants to force every one to convert. But little by little science has been advancing and enlightening the minds of people who wants to find the true answer for the laws that rule the universe.
    In the next 2000 years, both of these religions are going to be stuck and repeating the same nonsense like parrots, while Science in the next 2000 thousand years is going to open the eyes of the people of the future and all these insane beliefs, I hope, will be the oasis of all these who share ignorance and not the reality of what surround us.

  83. Rachid Talal

    Well, what can one respond to this vulgar kindda ignorance ;

    Don't confuse your own western cultural projections regarding christianity with other factual religions like when the west created and still creates its own racist images in relation to the east as Edward Said has proved in his genius book " Orientalism ".

    Take a look back at history to discover the great civilization of islam which had helped the west out of its dark age by indirectly triggering the protestant reformation and the rest of your western "enlightenment ", by discovering and practicing the scientific method the west had hijacked and made its own by denying its islamic origin , by discovering evolution 7 centuries before Darwin was even born and much much much more ....

    Muslims were at the top of the world in all areas , including in science , literature , art, philosophy ....especially when they used to embody the real spirit of islam .

    No wonder that current muslims are nowadays at the bottom of the well of civilization, simply because they have been betraying the real spirit of islam for more than 5 centuries now .

    But, don't worry, the glory time of islam will come back ,that;s a prophecy and then and only then ,you may open your ignorant mind and filthy mouth about islam in reality and be shamed of what you are thinking or uttering as a result ,confronted as you will be by the hard facts about islam, if you happen to be lucky enough to witness those glorious days during your own miserable ignorant life .

    Islam will help the current west out of its current and post-modern dark ages ,as islam did before by helping the west out of its previous dark age ,

    And you don't even have to be thankful for just that ..

    .

  84. Roger Brown

    At least we agree (paragraph 3-5). We all look on this world with different prospective s and it is amazing how similar thoughts, even though we have differing beliefs, we come to similar conclusions.

    This world is full of hypocrites and I don't have to be of your religion to realize that.

    Thanks for your comments, Rachid.
    Best wishes
    Roger. :-)

  85. Rachid Talal

    Indeed .I can only agree with you on that .

    This world is indeed full of hypocrits who pretend to change the world while they don't do the slightest thing to change themselves first .

    They are only after power in fact ...

    We should all look in the mirror first .

    We are all full of shit fools haha

    We do live in these extremely deceptive full of lies times, full of hypocrisy, make -believe, propaganda ....unfortunately enough .

    As i said earlier , let's hope for the best and prepare for the worst .

    I think that humanity is the worst thing that had ever happened to earth haha

    Even the angels in heaven predicted that when God told them that He intended to create man ...

    I have been enjoying Goethe's Faust in that regard .

    Best wisjes to you also and to your loved ones .

    I wish you a happy full of love life ,together with your loved ones .

    All we need is ...love indeed.

    Let's leave it at that then .

    I have been losing my temper with some guys here while i shouldn't have , ,So, i quit these discussions .

    Take care, buddy.

  86. Roger Brown

    I asked the same question, when I was a youngster. Then I grew up and became aware that all living things were born of this sentient Earth. Our Mother.

    Gaia:a radical Green who views the ecology of the Earth's biosphere not only as the basis of human moral examples, but of all cognition and even sentience.
    Thanks for Reply....

  87. Guest

    I didn't say anything say anything 'racist'. sorry, but I'm not interested. the truth is many people from many different backgrounds are responsible for the advancement of science and civilization. Your a racist for assuming that because I am white that I must be a racist. Islam is a RELIGION not a race I would like to point out. Notice how I never said the "East" or "Oriental". I simply mentioned the tao te ching which happened to be authored in china and you started chimping out, Implying that I must be saying something racist because I mentioned something which has its roots in china. Guess what I don't agree with enforcing sharia law in my country. I recognize that period in history and I am aware of it, but that doesn't mean that your culture is somehow superior to mine. In fact, you seem to be somehow implying that your culture is superior in your statements " muslims were at the top of the world in all areas" what about wolfgang amadues Mozart, J.S. bach, nikola tesla, newton, Einstein? I can play the same game as you.. Yes your culture made important contributions, but implying that you are somehow superior because of the contributions of some men to which you have no connection seems a bit racist if you ask me. You might say how could it be considered racist when you just said islam is a religion? well because you are substituting race for religion. for instance If I said Christians (or European's) were better because of J.S. bach, Mozart, etc would that make sense? I have absolutely no connection with these individuals what so ever, how could I claim that my culture is better on such a premise? well, that is exactly what you are doing. I don't care what you say I am not responsible for what the government does. western people are not bad

  88. Gadea

    Your brother made his choice.

  89. truth be told

    I do have my facts straight : you get seven raisins in heaven in the Syrian Aramaic version which works perfectly for Egyptian coptics-- not seven virgins. also, no the oldest quran in the world was found hidden in an old old mosque hidden between two walls in hydrabad...

    I don't respect pedophiles-- yes, almost certainly he was sexually abused as a child so I feel bad for him-- and almost certainly the "holy" disgusting verses were changed over and over again (not to mention a lot of times were plagiarisms) for political agenda-- but the fact remains. islam might have a few pretty verses in a pretty language, but there is so much immoral stuff in there believing it in it's entirety will do nothing but make u immoral.

  90. Ramon Roman

    Rachid, the only thing that religion through the ages has given is the advance of the arts that has been used to extol the so called gods. The advances were mainly architectural, but not scientific, since these could have contravened the belief , faith, on these omnipotent gods Science advanced in spite of religion and the belief of these so progressists gods. According to Plato, Socrates was forced to commit suicide because he didn't honored the existing gods. There have been other scientists through history that have been made to renege on their scientific advances because they were against the prevalent belief of these dark ages gods. The theory of evolution was brought by Darwin who studied through out the world the " progress" animals and plants. So don't attribute that to the belief of a god or to some particular type of people. The advances of Science belong to every one on Earth and not to a particular God.

  91. Ramon Roman

    Don't be ignorant, please, mr Rachid. First of all, all religions are FACTUAL, because they are, they live among the people, is not an spiritual thing, is something that the people uses to wrap up their ignorance. The belief in your Allah has not made you more tolerant, more caring, more scientific, more human, no Sir, it has created fanatics and will continue doing so, because ignorance is not genetic, is acquired through the fanaticism of not believing in the scientific advances that deny the existence of these gods that exist in the imagination of the blind humans. In spite of Islam, in spite of Christianity and in spite of all the stupid beliefs, the intelligence of the human beings have advanced, little by little and no god, and no fanatic is going to stop the scientific advances. The most ignorant thing that you have spouted is to say that the scientific method was applied first by the Islamists countries. Are you kidding me? The scientific method deny any belief in fairy gods. Do you bloody know how the scientific method is used? Please, shut up!

  92. Ramon Roman

    Why the heck , mr Rachid, you use the saying of a Marxist writer? So to defend your position you use a non believer? You are laughable.

  93. Ramon Roman

    We agree totally, 100% in your assessment of the western imperialism and the intromission and criminal behaviour of the Zionists. This is a political assessment, factual, of a situation created by theists. What I condemn about your belief, mr Rachid, is that in spite of all the advances that the Muslins countries of the past, because of this belief, fanatical to say the least, the advances were stopped and you kept living in the past. Christianity lost its grip on reality and could not any longer stop the scientific advances in spite of its fanaticism and the use of it to do it. This is the reason why you were left behind in the progress of the human mind. Curse your fanaticism and start being part of the new era of enlightening and let's find a solution, all together, to the real problems that are hurting the human race.

  94. Ramon Roman

    What do you mean, mr Rachid? Islam only for Arabs? Laughable.

  95. John Payne

    Glad you finally have run out of "gas" and have taken a break Rachid. Your words speak volumes and reflect your lack of education in all areas. The insistence that a belief system centered around an infallible Being who periodically must destroy his own creations because they are not behaving as he must have known in advance they would is ridiculous. All religions are an exercise in placating the ego. There is no god or gods for that matter and any rational individual who is not entirely intellectually bankrupt must see this. All religions are about POWER and the wish to enslave people to do the bidding of the LEADER...it is the same as POLITICS, just a different name

  96. John Payne

    The illusion of free will in religion is just that, an illusion

  97. John Payne

    Show me one religion that was not created by man

  98. John Payne

    No you are a girl at heart Rachid. And you really need to read a lot more, girl. All of the major religions today are based on ancient Egyptian, Syrian and Indian texts which were then utilized by the Hebrews and then Christianity and then Islam. All are based on bronze age nonsense in the most blood thirsty murderous "books" ever written. You will note that the Egyptians no longer build pyramids to appease their gods or god actually, at one time they were a monotheistic group as well. All religions come and go and Islam and Christianity both will depart like the Dodo bird

  99. John Payne

    Why is it that there is no inerrant copy of the Qur'an or the Bible for that matter. It would seem a rather simple matter for an omnipotent being to update such volumes so there would be no need for apologists anywhere to explain the "god inspired word" and yet there are no inerrant Qur'an or Bible...why??? Man can preserve his writings, why not God

  100. Ramon Roman

    No, some are god's made. Laughable.

  101. Ramon Roman

    Hatred is not manmade, sir, is inherent to the human beings.

  102. Faisal

    us Muslims have been told to do Jihad ONLY in the state of combat and war, not just for the sake of aggression and killing others. My message to Salahudin is: in the Qura'an, Allah has advised Mohammad (pbah) to be kind to others who are non-muslims (I don't like to call them Kafirs) by saying "...if you (Mohammad) been rude and thick hearted with others ,they sure will adjourn from around you..." Surat Al Imran page 71 verse 159...

    I really wish the better for you

    and the guy who did the documentary I say to you: not all Muslims are like Salahudin. I live in Makkah and a sure you we all are NOT like him in here..

  103. Sean O'rourke

    moderate muslims please take this suggestion. Listen to the tao te ching there is an audiobook on youtube

  104. Animalia

    Give me an example of the immorality within it.

  105. Animalia

    We believe that God preserved the final message, the Qu'ran, as He had to because people had already altered the Bible and Torah.

  106. Rachid Talal

    I do have that audio and the ebook in question , believe it or not .
    I will listen to it .Not because you say so or because you recommend that to "moderate " muslims (Yet another Eurocentric paternalistic silly label ).

  107. Guest

    Stop using the word Eurocentric It is racist, and has nothing to do with what I said. there are liberal Christians, moderate Christians, and then fundamental/conservative/fanatic Christians. this same style of classification may also be applied to both Judaism and Islam. it is a way of gauging a persons religious beliefs and is commonly used in religious courses which are often taught in universities. Islam is a religion not a race. also I am half Chinese and have spent much of my youth in both china and the united kingdom.

  108. Rachid Talal

    Eurocentric is not racist .It is commenly used by many western academics even .It relates to the egocentric western thought which pretends to be universal while it is not ....
    See post-modernism in that regard mainly.

    "Moderate " muslims is an Eurocentric paternalistic label you used = Eurocentric christian projection .

  109. Guest

    No, there are liberal Christians, moderate Christians, and then fundamental/conservative/fanatic Christians. it is a way of gauging a persons religious beliefs and is commonly used in religious courses which are often taught in universities. This system of classification is taught to millions of people through out the western world, but has nothing to do with being of European ancestry. You are using the word 'Eurocentric' in an improper and racist way. It is not warranted past the fact that my name happens to appear "European" to you (it is), Oh and by the way I'm half Chinese so why don't you just drop it. Leave these people alone, they are not responsible for what the government does.

  110. Guest

    This same way of classification is also applied to Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. It has nothing to do with being European. also I'm not a christian

  111. Guest

    I recommend the tao te ching and im Eurocentric. your a racist, and I'm half chinese

  112. I AM POP SLAG.

    cant we just use the really modern terms? like meta-magical thinking fantasists? or indoctrinated cult members?

  113. Guest

    "is most probably an MI5 or MI6 agent"...not sure or doubting it? You also say " i guess" and then go on to say "I don't know for sure". Then you seem to nearly commit yourself with: "but it's a probability". What the hell are you trying to say? Do you actually have a point? You need basic schooling...sorry but you do.

  114. Jack1952

    I don't know you so I can't question your sincerity, but I do have one question. Would you, as a Muslim, circulate in your Mosque, a petition calling for the release of Asia Bibi? She is a Christian Pakistani, who has been sentenced to death by hanging for blasphemy and insulting Mohammed. Would you ask your fellow Muslims for their support in trying to stop this incredible action in the name of justice? If you won't, why not?

  115. John Payne

    islam is stuck in the 7th century and will most likely remain there, but the extremists of all faiths are a blight on the entire human race. Sooner or later medical science will classify these ridiculous belief systems for what they really are...mental illness. The Prophet MABH was a schizophrenic and probably an epileptic without medication to help him.
    In this respect he is like St Paul a raving Jew who dismissed the rabble led by another saint, St Peter
    and Martin Luther a megalomaniac with an ego as big as all of Europe
    Do you see the connection...all of these people suffered from delusions

  116. John Payne

    All religion is myth and mystery and enigma. It has been around since the first collection of 'humans" gathered together under the African sun. It is a prop for those humans who are mentally unable to function in the world without the constant father figure.

    As to governments and their influence on how people are viewed, kindly remember that many people in all countries, instinctively know what is bullshit and what is not. The world's biggest problem is that about half of the human race is dependent upon an imaginary father figure and this allows all of them to project...whatever their religious leaders tell them

    It is about POWER plain and simple and as long as people remain children and do not accept that they alone are responsible for all the choices they make, the human race will continue to languish in ignorance

  117. systems1000

    The reasons most religions have been unsuccessful in bringing peace on Earth good will toward man,is because they never go beyond sex.Like heads and tails,sex is just the other side of the coin of violance.

  118. hotdog

    There is no any religion needed if people would have a common sense

  119. Jack1952

    I feel sorry for those poor virgins who have to deal with those self righteous jerks. At least she only has to deal with them once. Thank Allah for that, at least.

  120. Jack1952

    Are you kidding me? Islam spread through the influence of military invasions. First the unification of the Arabian Peninsula, then the Sassinid Empire, the slow erosion of the Byzantine Empire through invasion. Muslim armies over ran North Africa, conquered Spain and were finally stopped in France at the Battle of Tours. They defeated the Turkish tribes in Central Asia and moved into Sub-Saharan Africa. The Muslim Ottomans fought their way into Europe until they were almost in Vienna.

    Although, they rarely forced the conquered into Islam, the non-Muslims were forced to live under the Dhimmi laws, an elaboration of how the Quran taught how non-Muslims should be treated. In other words, they lived under religious bias and it was to their advantage to convert to Islam. Islam is just as guilty as Christianity in its methods to obtain converts. The apostasy laws also fly in the face of freedom of choice.

  121. Jack1952

    It is a possibility, not a probability. However, there is no evidence that this is the case and you have not presented any. Therefore, your probability has been reduced in it's possibility to very unlikely.

  122. Vexst Junglist

    my brother does snowboarding, simuler in many respects, he made some good freinds.

  123. Guest

    I am muslim and living in Europe , i am also against
    to this group radicale extreme muslims. This group is also
    against to Liberal , Democrat Muslims.
    For them are liberal , democrat muslims not good. They think that only the muslims like them are the best muslims.
    They respect also not the Western socieity where they life.
    This group that are saying that they want Sharia in UK or another EU country , they are against to Democrasy and everything what is with democrasy. I think that this group that want SHARIA in UK and another country''s must be DEPORTED to them country where they can life peacefull the SHARIA life that they want. EUROPE is a open socieity , but this GROUP of people have nothing to give anything for a country , they give only problems , also for another muslims that are normal living in the socieity. They want all the good chances , good financial life , good healtcare , good education but they are totally against to the system and to democrasy. What i see is when Western people like this brother is MUSLIM , in the most time they are total radical muslim like this documantary , but there are millions of liberal muslims living in Europe and are also muslim but not living so extreme and radicale. The Government must deported this little group to the country WHERE they want life them SHARIA life and so have the country no problems. This is nothing about racisim , this kind of group people have nothing to give to a WESTERN socieity ,
    Like this docu , this good family lost his child , brother to this radicale and extreme group , its so hard for this family and they broke this family.

  124. Aasiyah Sattar

    (Al-Qur'an) uses various types of arguments to resolve his doubts. To the
    atheists and agnostics, the cynics and the sceptics, who have a super-
    abundance of scientific knowledge and who consider themselves to be
    "intellectual giants," the point is driven home that they are in reality like
    stunted "dwarfs." They are like the dwarf who may have acquired abnormal
    development in any one particular direction at the expense of other parts of
    his faculty, like an oversized head on a puny body, the Supreme Creator
    questions him.

    But before we pose God's question to him, let me satisfy my own curiosity.
    "You men of science who have studied astronomy and who study our
    Universe through your mighty telescopes as if scrutinising an object in the
    palm of your hand; tell me how did this Universe come into being?" This man
    of science though lacking in spiritual insight, is nevertheless most generous
    in sharing his knowledge. He readily responds. "Well," he begins, "billions of
    years ago our Universe was a single piece of matter, and there happened a
    "Big Bang" in the centre of that huge lump of matter and mighty chunks of
    matter began flying in all directions. Out of that "big bang" our solar system
    since there is no resistance in space to that primordial momentum generated
    by the initial explosion, the stars and the planets swim along in their
    orbits..."

    At this juncture, my memory tickles me - Our materialist friends appear to
    have been secretly imbibing their knowledge from the Súra Yaa-Seen: 1

    (1) Yaa-Seen: is the 36th chapter of the Holy Qur'an. It is said to be the "heart" of the Qur'an.
    The verses here are laid out for you to memorize in a very easy form, together with their
    meanings.
    The atheistic scientist continues. "Ours is an 'expanding' universe. The
    galaxies are receding away from us at a faster and faster rate, and once they
    reach the speed of light 1, we will not be able to see them anymore. We must
    construct bigger and better telescopes as quickly as possible to study the
    sights, if not we will miss the bus!"

    "When did you discover these fairy tales?" we ask. "No, these are not fairy
    tales but scientific facts!" our friend assures us. "All right, we accept your
    facts for what you say they are, but when did you really stumble upon these
    facts?" "Only yesterday!" he replies. Fifty years, after all, is only 'yesterday'
    in the history of the human race. "An unlettered Arab in the desert over
    1400 years ago could never have had your knowledge of the 'big bang' and
    of your 'expanding universe,' could he?" we ask. "No never!" he retorts
    boastingly. "Well, then listen to what this ummi2 Prophet uttered under
    inspiration:"

    (1) Light is said to travel at a speed of a hundred and eighty six thousand miles per second (7.5
    times around the world in one second!).
    (2) Ummi: means unlettered, unlearned. "And the Book is given to him that is NOT
    LEARNED, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he sayeth, I am not learned" Isaiah
    29:12. See how this prophecy finds fulfilment in Muhummed (pbuh). Obtain your FREE COPY
    OF "What the Bible says about Muhummed (pbuh)" from the IPCI.
    Al-Qur'an - The Miracle of MiraclesPage 19

    'BIG BANG' THEORY
    Can't you see that the words "The Unbelievers" in the first quote above
    are specifically addressed to You - the men of science - the geographers, the
    astronomers, who, after having made amazing discoveries and conveyed
    these discoveries to mankind, still remain so 'BLIND' as not to 'SEE' its
    Author? "With our Sciences and Encyclopaedias, we are apt to forget
    the Divineness, in those laboratories of ours" 1 says Thomas Carlyle.

    Where on earth could a camel driver in the desert have gleaned 'Your facts'
    fourteen hundred years ago, except from the Maker of the 'Big Bang'
    Himself?

    ORIGIN OF LIFE
    "And You the biologists who seem to have your fingers on

    (1) From "Hero and Hero Worship" by Thomas Carlyle.
    all organic life, and yet have the temerity to deny the existence of the
    Source of that Life, i.e. God: tell me, according to your vaunted research;
    where and how did life originate?"

    Like his 'unbelieving' astronomer companion in science, he too begins -
    "Well, billions of years ago primaeval matter in the sea began to generate
    protoplasm out of which came the amoeba; and out of that mire in the sea
    came all living things. In one word ALL LIFE came from the sea, i.e.
    Water!"

    "And when did you discover this fact that all living things came from water?"
    The answer is no different from that of his fellow scientist the astronomer -
    "Yesterday!" "No man of learning, no philosopher or poet could ever have
    guessed your biological discovery fourteen centuries back, could he?" we
    ask, and our biologist is as emphatic as the astronomer. "No, never!" says
    he. "Well, then, you just listen to this untutored son of the desert!"

    The above statement is further elaborated in the Book of God:

    (1) Protoplasm is the basis of all living matter, and "the vital power of protoplasm seems to
    depend on the constant presence of water" (Lawson's Text-Book of Botany, London 1922).
    Text books on Zoology are also clear on this point. For further explanation see Yusuf Ali's
    translation and commentary, available from the IPCI.
    Al-Qur'an - The Miracle of MiraclesPage 21

    It will not be difficult for you to note that these words of the Omnipotent,
    Omniscient Creator of the Universe were addressed to YOU men of
    knowledge in answer to your scepticism TODAY. Their real import was
    beyond the dwellers of the desert fourteen centuries ago. The Author (God
    Almighty) is reasoning with YOU, you men of science, how can YOU not
    believe in God? YOU should be the LAST to deny His existence and yet you
    are the FIRST! What sickness has overtaken YOU that you allow your egos
    to overshadow your sense of logic?

    AND to the botanists and the zoologists and the physicists who, despite their
    amazing insight into the nature of things, refuse to acknowledge a Master
    Creator. Let them then account for these utterances of Muhummed (pbuh)
    the mouthpiece of God.

    So 2000 years from now when people live the life of science that continue's to constantly change, we'l be living the life that has been predicted and was written two thousand years ago, what u await to happen we know already of what awaits us so u may dwell in ur darkness as we muslims pray for the life we will live in the here after, u talk bt circumcision our country is now placing laws whereas every male born shud be circumsised due to prevention of HIV , reason for us not using our left hand is because we wash our ass with it and this is unhygienic, unless u eat with the same hand u wipe ur ass leaving trails of stool in ur finger nails , extra seasoning to ur salad..so before u critise what u know nothing of educate urself , coz ignorant fools tend to make as much noise as ª empty vessel ( ?° ?? ?°)

  125. Nikita Kade

    It's great to hear this coming from a Muslim who lives in the West. You seem to understand what living in the west is about; it's about the freedom to be a moderate or liberal Muslim and express your opinions openly, the ability to defy one the redicals who bellieve there is only iway to be a Muslim. Perhaps Junior Islam from England needs to go spend some tme in, say, Saudi Arabia, where he can see his beloved Sharia at work. Better still, he can stay there, and make more room for those like you in the westl

  126. Nissa

    wow.... poor rich

  127. don't bomb the truth

    "us Muslims have been told to do Jihad ONLY in the state of combat and war, not just for the sake of aggression and killing others." This is just plain wrong.

    Muhammad himself started wars for the sake of spreading his religion, and killed thousands of people simply because they wouldn't accept him as a prophet. Hell, his dying wish was for his followers to continue in his stead and conquer the rest of the world under the guise of his violent religion. Al-Qaeda represents Islamic views perfectly, and any muslim who has any clue who muhammad was knows that if he were alive today, he would be at the head of a terrorist organization.

  128. Faisal

    I'm sorry to tell you this but its not as simple as you stated. I recommend that you read more in the right books.
    I totally respect your opinion. Plus, please search how many times the word "sword" was mentioned in the Quran. its ZERO. also remember that there was a time, cultural, ethical and moral difference in the time of the prophet. no one would believe that Islam has spread in the world today only by war. it just doesn't make sense. millions of people are converting to Islam by their free will today only by reading about the personality of the prophet and not the religion itself. I don't want to say anything about Alqaida because they are extremists.
    sorry to make this long. again, I really respect you and your opinion :)

  129. jackmax

    G'day Faisal,

    I don't think not finding sword written in your version of the "book of lies" is that important considering preferred method is to strap bombs and other explosive devices to themselves pick out the innocent civilians his about to kill and maim, walks in and BANG. How many times does it say blow the innocent up with suicide bombers in your same book?

  130. Faisal

    none...

    and there is only one "version" of the Quraan. Please do some reading and help yourself.

  131. Jarrad Hurley

    Wake up. Hes not 'far from the normal convert'... THIS is Islam!... those who are moderate aren't living true Islam

  132. jackmax

    Correct me if I'm wrong but the Quraan is written in Arabic then it has been translated into English so that's two before I looked up google and bugger me depending on the site it varied from 5 to 20 different versions. May-be you should take your own advice and "Please do some reading and help yourself."

  133. Faisal

    My friend

    I live in Makah and it's the source of all things Islam here. The only Quran
    is right in front of me now and it’s the only version according to the sources,
    trust me. It's given for free here and in the world. It's printed in the King
    Fahad Complex for printing the Quran in Madina, Saudi Arabia. Also, it's normal
    for the most spreading religion in the world to be fought and falsified by
    writing other false versions of the Quran and spreading it in the world, just
    like what you found on the internet. Plus, we have in Makah here all the
    falsified so called "versions" old and new so we can know about them.

    One other thing, probably what you found was "dialectal readings"
    and interpretations of the Quran and they come in many books, the latter is for
    us Arabs to understand the old Arabian language in the Quran.

    My friend, you don't have to be disrespectful to prove a point, and I
    really apologize if my previous comment was interpreted as a disrespectful
    advice.

    Peace to you :)

  134. Aasiyah Sattar

    Please do tell me which history book you read that from ?? And who was the author ??

    Coz all in my 30 year life span as a muslim i have never come across this war and killings !!!

    But i'll share with you the verses in my quraan written over 1400 years ago which is unaltered and has never been rewritten till this day ..

    After reading this please i beg you, don't say something without having the facts , you embarrasing yourself.

    Allah T'ala says in the Holy Quran:
    خُذِ الْعَفْوَ وَأْمُرْ بِالْعُرْفِ وَأَعْرِضْ عَنِ الْجَاهِلِينَ
    (7:199) [O Prophet!] Show forgiveness, enjoin equity, and avoid the ignorant.

    وَإِمَّا يَنزَغَنَّكَ مِنَ الشَّيْطَانِ نَزْغٌ فَاسْتَعِذْ بِاللّهِ إِنَّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ
    (7:200) And if it happens that a prompting from Satan should stir you up, seek refuge with Allah. He is All-Hearing, All-Knowing.

    إِنَّ الَّذِينَ اتَّقَواْ إِذَا مَسَّهُمْ طَائِفٌ مِّنَ الشَّيْطَانِ تَذَكَّرُواْ فَإِذَا هُم مُّبْصِرُونَ

    (7:201) If the God-fearing are instigated by any suggestion of Satan, they instantly become alert, whereafter they clearly perceive the right way.

    وَإِخْوَانُهُمْ يَمُدُّونَهُمْ فِي الْغَيِّ ثُمَّ لاَ يُقْصِرُونَ

    (7:202) As for their brethren [the Satans], they draw them deeper into error and do not relax in their efforts.

    Here some important directives are addressed to the Prophet (peace be on him) regarding how he should preach the Message of Islam and how he should guide and reform people. The object of these directives is not merely to instruct the Prophet (peace be on him), but also to instruct all those who would shoulder the same responsibility after the Prophet (peace be on him) was no longer amidst them. The major directives are as follows:

    (1) The most important qualities that must be cultivated by anyone who calls others to the truth are tenderness, magnanimity, and forbearing. Such a person should also have the capacity to tolerate the lapses of his companions and to patiently endure the excesses of his opponents. He should also be able to keep his cool in the face of grave provocation and gracefully connive at the offensive behaviour of others. In facing the angry words, slander, persecution and mischief of his opponents, he should exercise the utmost self-restraint. Harshness, severity, bitterness. and vindictive provocativeness on his part are bound to undermine his mission. The same point seems to have been made in a Hadith in which the Prophet (peace be on him) says that he has been commanded by his Lord: '...to say the just word whether I am angry, or pleased; to maintain ties with him who severs ties with me; and to give to him who denies me (my right); and to forgive him who wrongs me.' (See the comments of Qurtubi in his Tafsir on the verse - Ed.) The Prophet (peace be on him) also instructed all those whom he deputized for preaching: 'Give good news rather than arouse revulsion: make things easy rather than hard.' (Muslim, Kitab al-Ilm, Bab fi al-amr bi al-Taysir wa Tark al-Ta'sir'- Ed.) This distinguishing feature of the Prophet's personality has also been mentioned in the Qur'an.

    It was thanks to Allah's mercy that you were gentle to them. Had you been rough, hard-hearted, they would surely have scattered away, from you (AI 'Imran 3: 159).
    (2) The second key to the success in da'wah work is to stay away from excessive theorizing and intellectual hair-splitting. One should rather call people in clear and simple terms to those virtues which are recognized as such by the generality of mankind and appeal to common sense. The great advantage of this method is that the Message of Islam finds its way right to the hearts of people at all levels of understanding. Those who then seek to oppose the Message are soon exposed and end up antagonizing the common people. For when the common people obserse on the one hand decent and righteous people being opposed for the simple reason that they are inviting people to universally-known virtues, and on the other hand observe those opponents resorting to all kinds of immoral and inhuman means, they are bound to incline to support the standard bearers of truth and righteousness. This process goes on until a point where the only opponents left are those whose self-interest is inextricably linked with the prevailing unrighteous system, or those's who have been totally blinded by their bigoted adherence to ancestral tradition or by their irrational biases.

    The wisdom underlying the Prophet's method accounts for his phenomenal success and for the speedy spread of Islam in and around Arabia within a short span of time. People flocked to Islam in vast numbers so much so that in some lands eighty and ninety per cent of the population embraced Islam. In fact there are even instances of a hundred per cent of the population embracing Islam.
    (3) The interest of the Islamic mission requires, on the one hand, that righteousness should be enjoined on those who have the propensity to become righteous. On the other hand, it also requires that those who are overly insistent in their adherence to falsehood, should be left alone, and that their acts of provocation be ignored. Those who seek to spread Islam should confine their efforts to persuading only those who are prepared to consider the Message of Islam in
    reasonable manner. When someone becomes altogether unreasonable and quarrelsome, and resorts to indecent methods of taunting and reviling Islam, Muslims should simply refuse to become adversative. For all the time and effort devoted to reforming such people will be totally wasted.

  135. jackmax

    "Please do tell me which history book you read that from ?? And who was the author ??"
    Have you watched this documentary as I've noticed you had not watched the other documentary on another thread you have been commenting on?

  136. Aasiyah Sattar

    Jackmax would it be against the law to not have watched the documentary ?? I'm sorry which part of watching a 50 minute documentary would alter my 10 years of Islamic teachings as a kid and 20 years of practicing all that i have been taught and believed and lived by? I've quoted you from my Quraan , a revelation from my god to our prophet Muhammad, where we muslims solemnly believe in,which dates back 1400 years ago. Unless our prophet had risen from the dead to play a role in that documentary. Like i said before Media Trickery has everyone fooled, just like photo shop has believing a chick may look like Beyonce when actual fact she makes Ugly Betty look like a Hue Hefner play girl. Never believe everything you see unless seen with your naked eye. So if i had a documentary showing that Jesus didn't die on a cross would you then rewrite your bible ?

  137. Aasiyah Sattar

    Since its a huge sin to not watch a documentary before commenting, i just watched it and i have to say "Yawn" for the beginning and this is my sentiments for the rest..Two british bloks bored out of the minds after smoking one two many , played dress up and decided to make a "let's try to convince people to hate muslims more then already do" documentary. Way too low budget for my liking with "so called" islamic teachings i aint never heard of in my life..but a great attempt which they got paid for by the millions because of sheer gullibility.
    To give up your life to fight in jihaad really ? Why aren't all the muslim men following those beliefs i wonder, the world would be in anarchy from the time of our prophet ,maybe because its utter crap.. The world would then maybe consist of a thousand people if we were lucky..you born reach twelve and then die in a war caused by muslims fightiing jihaad

  138. jackmax

    You have stated "Never believe everything you see unless seen with your naked eye."
    If that is what you believe that then how can you believe in Muhammad or are you saying you have seen him with your naked eye?
    To answer your question if I had to be labeled I consider myself as an anti-thiest and that being the case I think all religions are evil and should be eradicated.
    It would appear that you are also prone to aggressive and violent actions by stating that you want to strike someone with a steel chair.
    To me that does not sound peaceful or non threatening behaviour. The fact you will ask for forgiveness from a supernatural being after you assaulted someone also leads me to reconsider my view on the mind set of all muslims.
    Allah says that you must keep fighting until there is no more persecution and everyone on earth is a Muslim. Then you can stop killing people. 2:193a
    But if there are any wrong-doers around after you've killed off all the disbelievers, persecutors and aggressors, then you'll have to kill them too. 2:193b
    I could give you more from your quran as examples of the violent teachings of your religion.
    Where do you stand on human rights ie; homosexuals and gay marriage and the current conflicts through out the middle east?

  139. Yne Styne

    if you are thinking that Prophet Muhammad PBUH started wars etc .... then let me tell you that Prophet Muhammad PBUH forgave a non-muslim man who participated in a war and killed his uncle and a women who practically ordered the same man to open his uncle's abdomen and took out liver and that lady practically chewed that liver ,,,, Prophet Muhammad PBUH just forgave that lady too ...... ha comment what you know and what is authentic , if we start to degrade every one then no body will know about the truth , i am not talking about the islam , i am just talking about the truth , and what is truth can be known by research ... for me it is ISLAM ,,,, for you it may be a different one but atleast you and me too should search about truth .... i truly believe in islam not because i was born to muslim family because i really find all answers to my question .....

  140. Yne Styne

    there is only one version of QURAN and it is in its original language ARABIC ,,,, versions that you are saying are may the different translations by different authors and thats it nothing else they are just translations and their explanations nothing else .... and compare its original language ARABIC word by word ..... they all are same .....

  141. Yne Styne

    science in next 2000 years ,,, ha i am a medical student and today science even cant answer that in what actual form a person stores his memory , and i can list you loads and loads of diseases that science dont know their cause .... yeah to enlighten minds by science we have to wait for infinity or may be more than that ,,, more than infinity ha ..... impossible that science will do some thing ,..... sorry to say by the way .....

  142. jackmax

    By your own admission there are an Arabic and English version would not agree...:)
    Are you saying that only people that understand and can speak the Arabic language are muslims?
    I'm sure the non Arabic speaking muslims would disagree with you I'd bet....

  143. Ramon Roman

    Yne styne, I don't know why you study sciences, when according to every theist is nonsensical. I wrote that science little by little is discovering the mysterious laws that rule the universe, and in no part of my post I wrote that science has an answer for everything as theists assert with their beliefs. If you know history you can realize that before your prophet Mohamed , the center of the sciences were precisely in that part of the middle East where most of the troubles rule now those poor people. I write, poor people, because with your prophet all advances in science stopped due to the aura of messenger of Allah that your prophet surrounded himself. If you are studying medicine, you have to be thankful that you are not learning the ways of the alchemists, but you have to be thankful that you are using technological advances that little by little are saving so many young lives. The others,the old people, when the time comes not even science could prolong their lives. It is our destiny and not the destiny assigned by certain gods to live or to die before time just for the whims of these gods.

  144. Marcus

    Monkey man... Your idea of the Bible is twisted, you are a one line reader and not a contextual reader.

    One, a woman needs to cover her head ONLY when praying

    Two, yes for adultery stone to death, BUT he who is without sin should cast the first stone. And who is without sin.

    Please get your facts correct...I didn't read the rest cause it just RUBBISH

  145. Truth Speaker

    To get rid of these all violent thoughts, either adopt way of life (Hinduism) or follow Buddism.

  146. Al Hajri

    well,, i feel the person made the this movie was attempting to ruin the muslim picture,, he only chooses certain parts of the scenes to make this misleading film,, unfortunately,

  147. Al Hajri

    well i dont know if he is really a muslim,,
    and that returns to him,, but seriously is western life better than muslim life??
    is it good that women go to street half naked and sleep every now and often with a different man like an pig??
    also men and women have same rule regarding adultery,, not only confined to women.

    we are all human but we still have instincts and bad desires,, islam strict rules regulate all these desires to ascent to higher level than animals,, and this is to be rewarded in this life even before resurrection.
    about bombing stuff,, and hatred discussed,, and for ppl claiming tp read quran,, quran says that Allah does not forbid you from being good to non-muslims as long as they are good to you, and he commands you to be fair with them as he loves fair people
    لَا يَنْهَاكُمُ اللَّهُ عَنِ الَّذِينَ لَمْ يُقَاتِلُوكُمْ فِي الدِّينِ وَلَمْ يُخْرِجُوكُمْ مِنْ دِيَارِكُمْ أَنْ تَبَرُّوهُمْ وَتُقْسِطُوا إِلَيْهِمْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ يُحِبُّ الْمُقْسِطِينَ

    but on the other hand he asks them to be harsh in wars, and supportive of their brother muslims, and talking about current times, to muslims being tortures by the US and israelian army for no justifiable reason.

  148. Nikita Kade

    Al Hajri, I admit I found some of your arguments difficult to follow, and I'm not sure whether it's a language barrier, or just the fact that your computer messes up, as mine did in my first post (it looked as if there were spelling errors and so forth in there, but it was only my lowgrade machine popping words into the wrong sentences).

    However, I'll start with your first question: is Western life really better than Muslim life? Well, I guess that depends on where the Muslim life is. If it's in a fundamentalist Muslim country, then yes, I don't think there's much doubt that Western life is better than life there, especially for women, but also for men. The West encourages people to think for themselves, and it rewards them for doing so--not just with material goods, but with a sense of purpose that makes THIS life, as opposed to the one after death, worthwhile. Yet many Westerners believe just as passionately in God and an afterlife as you do. The West's prisons are nothing to brag about, but we don't chop off hands and heads in public squares; we don't ask rape victims to marry rapists or be stoned; we don't confine women to houses or stuff them under burqas, forbid them to drive, or allow their husbands to beat them because an alleged holy book says it's OK.

    Life is better in the West because you can read what you want, study what you want, say what you want, and do what you want, without fear of reprisal. You have freedoms that fundamentalist Muslim countries don't give their citizens. In those countries, non-Muslim religions are repressed (how many Christian churches are there in Saudi Arabia?). But in the West, you can be a Muslim all you want--AS LONG AS YOU DON'T HURT ANYONE ELSE. That's what a free society is about, and yes, I think it's better.

    Ask yourself this: if life is so much finer in Islamic countries, why are their citizens always trying to leave and come to the West? I don't see that many Westerners dying to get to Somalia. If Muslims come here just for a better standard of living, then what does that say about only Westerners being materialistic?

    You say that the rules (by which I think you mean the punishments) for adultery, under Islam, are the same for women and men.That's true. But the rules around women's sexuality aren't the same at all. Women are seen as responsible for men's sexual behavior; a man's lust is always the fault of the woman that provoked it. That's ridiculous, and it results in attitudes like yours: you seem to have a problem with the idea that woman have the RIGHT to sleep with whomever they want to, without this making them "pigs"; they have the RIGHT to dress in any way they want, and if you find it provocative...too bad. You're not allowed to publicly revile, judge, or censure a woman because you don't like what she's doing. And you're not allowed to rape or molest her because, in your opinion, she's "asking for it." It is a fundamental part of Western belief that women are the equals of men, and have the same rights as men, sexually and in every other respect. So already, life in the West is better, because half its population isn't oppressed by rules the other half doesn't have to obey.

    As for Islam trying to raise people above the level of animals: most religions--not just Islam--seek to bring out the best in human nature. But they don't do it by flogging, stoning, beating, and murdering apostates. Who is animalistic in those cases? And the Quran may emphasize charity, but it also condones extreme cruelty; it advises Muslims to "strike the infidel in the neck", it tells them not to befriend Christians and Jews, and its emphasis is always on the hell you'll suffer if you don't follow all the rules--rules written, incidentally, how many centuries ago, by people living hundreds of years after Mohammed.

    Finally, the idea that the US and the West are somehow at war with Islam is just plain bizarre. The US has given billions of dollars of aid to Muslim countries like Egypt and Pakistan. Yes, it supports Israel, but A) look at what Jewish people have suffered over the last 3000 years, since being dispossessed of their own homeland, and B) support of Israel doesn't mean the West hasn't given Palestine a chance to be heard. Where exactly is the West hurting Muslims? In Afghanistan, former home of Bin Laden, who attacked the US first? In Pakistan, the NEXT home of Bin Laden? It seems like there are far more civil wars in which Muslims are hurting Muslims than there are places in which Westerners are hurting Mustlms.

    I'm not saying the West is always fair; does the US pick and choose who to ally itself with, and then dump them when done with them? Yes. Is that right? No. Are its politics always evenhanded? Of course not. But that doesn't amount to a war on Islam. It amounts to the greed and stupidity of politcians everywhere (even in the Taliban). And at least in the West, you can protest when you think your government is being greedy and stupid, without worry of being thrown into jail or killed. If there were a war against Islam, why would the West and the US allow thousands of Muslims fleeing Muslim nations to flock across Western borders?

    I hope I've addressed some of your points. Thanks for taking the time to respond to mine, and best to you.

  149. Martin Widgren

    he actually says many times that his brother does not belong to the norm.
    you should be more botherd by the people in this movie claiming to be muslims.
    they are the ones ruining the muslim picture.
    dont kill the messanger...

  150. Ex-muslim

    I am from Afghanistan and was born and raised in a Muslim family. I had always had doubts in my belief as a Muslim, but could not express it openly to anyone because of the fear of being ridiculed. Like anyone else i always had the curiosity about the meaning of life and how everything came into being. One day i decided to learn about Islam and other religions and tried to understand whether Quran, Bible and other religious books really and actually were words of god. In the process of my search for the truth i was keeping an open mind to everything i was coming across. I came to the conclusion in the end that religion in general as a concept is nothing but an outdated philosophy of our ancestors and their naive perspective and understanding of life and the purpose of life.
    I think in primitive tribal societies at the time, religion was a good tool used to make rules and orders in the society and to a certain degree it was an attempt to find peace and harmony. But like any other ideologies it got corrupted and it brought greed, wars and bloodshed with it which defeats the object of what it was intended for . In the 21 century, we have come a long way and religion has no relevance in our societies any longer. We have replaced religious ruling institutions with the democratic parliaments and replaced different religious sects with democratically elected political parties, who set the rules and regulations and set punishments for those who commits crimes proportionate to what is perceived moral and humane in accordance to international law and human rights organisations and so on...furthermore, science has replaced the philosophy and science is the only method to rationally and evidently explain the complexity of life and the universe not religion and philosophy,
    Ignorance is not an excuse, we should all educate ourselves and leave behind the old fashion ideologies which don't serve any other purpose in our lives, except hate and prejudice towards one another.

  151. Scooby Dooby

    I am an American Catholic and a strong believer in God. My God is one of love, I love all of God's children including Muslims. I would never intentionally put any negativity into this world. I do not stereo type Muslims and no that not all are extreme Jihadists. Whatever your religion is though it should be between you and whatever God you believe in. You should not force religion upon anyone no matter what people brainwash you into doing. Religion should be morally enriching and killing people, stereo typing people in the West, and attacking nations should not be included in any religion. You should strive as a person to never hurt anyone and only put positivity into the world. You should volunteer and give back to the world. If we all just love each other and ignore bigotry some prophet told you to have for others the world would be much better off. One love!

  152. Scooby Dooby

    So because you assume all Westerners are the same I'll assume all Muslims are the same. So your idea of combating the west is to drive planes into their buildings? Is that a clear representation of Allah?

  153. Gordon Phillips

    ..evolution..evolution..evolution.. the drums are getting louder. Get out of religion while you have the chance. I'm living proof you don't need to be worshipping apparitions to live a good and long life.

  154. john

    to be fair, out of context or no, these lines still are in the book. to attempt to sugar coat it by saying the words mean something different when coupled with other lines is facetious. and the 'one line reader' jibe can be directed at many commentators on islam.

  155. ALLAPICHAI RAWTHER

    Islam does not force violence. The Holy Quran says "...Laa Iqraaha fiddheeni....." which means there is no compulsion in religion. In another chapter it says,"...Lakum dheenukkum valiya dheen..." which means, " you (non muslims) have your way (religion) and we have our way." Islam does not oppose peaceful co-existence of people belonging to different faiths. In Saudi Arabia, there are more than 10 lakhs of non muslims living for generations. Only a few people think that this religion should be followed by everybody in their country and it is their duty to spread it at any cost. Unfortunately Islam is the most misunderstood and misinterpreted religion.

  156. kelly kass

    That's kind of what I felt, I have/had little understanding of Muslims and wanted to get a better picture of it, I came away feeling these are horrible violent people, but reading all the comments from others I think this isn't actually the case. I don't think this documentary gives a good concept about being Muslim.

  157. kelly kass

    You don't understand that Westerners are free to make the life choices they want. If a woman wants to have intercourse with more then one male in her lifetime it doesn't make her a animal or as you put it a pig. If this behavior is so appalling instead of trying to change everyone around you, go to a land where everyone wants to live exactly like you.
    Who do you think you are to enforce your beliefs and morals on another? do you think you are a God? because no one else does.

  158. kelly kass

    I am confused because every time I hear what I feel is "rubbish" from others in the public eye they quote the bible as their reference. A example would be the guy from Duck Dynasty spewing exactly what Monkey Man above listed and he says he got it from the bible and therefore it's right. I noticed all the Christians rallied around him in defense of his bible citation. So which is it?

  159. kelly kass

    Its called cherry picking hateful people use the bible as their defense and twist or use what they need to back up their ignorance. When a bible verse doesn't suit their need then and only then is it out of context.

  160. Yne Styne

    dont read the tranlation of word alone .. PLEASE DO READ THE EXPLANATION ALSO ....

  161. Terry Beaton

    So in heaven you get 72 virgins. What's the difference with sleeping with a lot of women on earth, or sleeping with a lot of women in Heaven??

  162. walterbyrd

    Islamic history tells a very different story.

  163. Saltanat

    The guy who was selling perfume is handsome... What is his real name?

  164. Habib Ali

    You can not separete man from their book. You are is what you read! Brutality, suicide, jihadist, shariah nation, stoning people, caliphate, hatred, kuffar words are words jump out from that book. The more you read that book the more violence you are.

  165. the silenced masses

    I guess that goes for Judaism and Christianity, too. The bible is full of violence, vengeance, oppression and racism. No wonder they're all so full of bigotry and hatred

  166. the silenced masses

    What story does Christianity tell? Christian nations have started more wars, invaded more countries, and been responsible for more genocides than all other religions combined.

    If you think Islam's death toll is anywhere near Christianity's you're either ignorant or delusional.

    Even today, Christian nations are still slaughtering and oppressing more innocent people than Muslims are. Over the last few decades, Christian nations have murdered millions of innocent Muslim people, injured and displaced millions more, overthrown their moderate governments and installed brutal dictators who let the West steal their resources.

    In all that time, Muslim countries have not invaded one western country, not overthrown one western government and not killed any western civilians.

    A few isolated extremists may have been responsible for the deaths of a handful of people relative to the death toll Christian nations have amassed in the middle east and Africa.

    Misinformed, hate-filled bigots like you are so quick to believe the propaganda our war mongering governments shovel down your throat, because it feeds your hatred

  167. walterbyrd

    There are no "Christian nations" unless you consider the Vatican a nation.

    The USA, and European nations, are secular. The government is not tied to any religion.

    Also where exactly do you get your "facts?" just make them up as you go?

    > "If you think Islam's death toll is anywhere near Christianity's you're either ignorant or delusional."

    Really? There are 57 Muslim nations. Probably all taken at point of sword. There are no Christian nations.

    Also, just because a nation is predominately Christian does not mean that nation is fighting for the cause of Christianity. There has never once been a US war for the cause of Christianity. The very idea is ridiculous. I am not saying all US wars have been justified, I am just saying they were not fought for the cause of Christianity.

    Unlike Islam, the great prophet of Christianity was not a war monger. Jesus never told his followers to slay disbelievers. Jesus never advocated forced conversion.

    > In all that time, Muslim countries have not invaded one western country, not overthrown one western government and not killed any western civilians.

    Again, where do you get your "facts?"

    Did you forget the attacks of 9/11?

    Did Islam not overthrow Spain?

    Islam has not killed any western civilians? You are either unbelievable ignorant, or a liar.

    > A few isolated extremists may have been responsible for the deaths of a handful of people

    Yeah, I think it's a little more than that. Like nearly 25,000 terrorist attacks since 9/11. To say nothing of the extremely bloody history of Islam over the last 1400 years.

  168. the silenced masses

    It's only recently that Western countries have stopped identifying themselves as Christian nations. However Christianity still dominates much of the social consciousness in the West, and is regularly exploited by western leaders . A perfect example is the US. Every single politician talks about god and identifies themselves and their work with Christianity. If you think you can separate the American government from Christianity you really are delusional. It's all Bush talked about when he was trying to sell his illegal invasion of Iraq to the American people.

    Also, you are very ignorant about recent history. Do you know how many moderate secular governments the US has overthrown and replaced with brutal, theocratic regimes? America is currently supporting most of the brutal theocracies in the middle east. But Iran, Iraq, Libya and Syria were all moderate secular countries before America invaded them. And the only thing keeping the Saudi royal family in power is the American government. There are other examples in Asia and Africa as well.

    Also, even if you believe the government's ridiculous version of 9/11, it was not carried out by a Muslim nation. It was individuals (most of whom were Saudis, America's favorite ally) who carried out the attacks.

    America alone has killed millions of innocent Muslims.

    And again, Christianity's history is far more blood-soaked than Islam's. It's bizarre that you'd even try to argue otherwise. Both world wars alone, fought among Christian nations, easily surpass Islam's death toll over its entire history. And that doesn't even include the genocides Christians carried out in North and South America, Africa and Asia.

    You truly are an misinformed individual. Perhaps it's your racism and hatred that care clouding your mind

  169. walterbyrd

    If you think the US is a "Christian" nation fighting for the cause of Christianity, then you are seriously ignorant. Nothing could be further from the truth.

    The US is a secular nation, always has been. It is right in our constitution.

    > "Do you know how many moderate secular governments the US has overthrown and replaced with brutal, theocratic regimes?"

    None. Muslims love brutal, theocratic regimes. The government of Iran has been replaced several times. What kind of people do Iranians put in office? How about Egypt? How about Gaza?

    I will admit that the US meddles too much in mid-east affairs. I think the US would be wise to get out of that snake pit, and let the Muslims go back to killing each other - which Muslims, apparently, *love* to do.

    BTW: the Muslims killed in recent conflicts, have mostly been killed by other Muslims. It is a verified fact.

    In any case, none of it had to do with Christianity. Christians do not have a "kill the infidel" mentality. Christians are not violent about forcing their religion. The US never tried to convert Iran, or Afghanistan to Christianity.

    In the west, we really don't care. Worship whatever you please, makes no difference to us - unless you start flying 747s into our buildings.

    BTW: if Muslims had not attacked the US on 9/11, the US would not have gone into Iraq, or Afghanistan. Muslims love to start fights, then play the victim when anybody defends themselves against Muslim aggression.

  170. the silenced masses

    Legally speaking America is secular, but it socially it is a borderline fundamentalist Christian nation. If a president can not get elected without being a Christian, if the president and every politician is constantly talking about god and relating god to everything they do, then it is a Christian nation. Bush constantly talked about god and doing god's work. It's ridiculous that you are trying to argue this.

    And then you try to argue against historical facts, talk about ignorance. Iran had a moderate secular government before the US overthrew and it put the Shah, and extremely brutal dictator, in charge. Iraq was a secular country with one of the highest qualities of life under Saddam, but now it is a failed state and a breeding ground for extremists. Libya was a secular country and had the highest quality of life but is now suffering even worse than Iraq. Syria is a moderate secular country and the US is currently trying to overthrow it.

    This is all fact, and for you to argue otherwise shows you have no clue what you are talking about. You even claim that there is a connection between Iraq and 9/11. This shows how profoundly misinformed you are.

    Arguing with someone who has no idea what they are talking about is about as productive as banging my head against the wall. I suggest you spend some time studying the subject and stop living in ignorance

  171. walterbyrd

    > Libya was a secular country and had the highest quality of life but is now suffering even worse than Iraq.

    Libya was a Christian country that was taken over by Muslims. You blame the US for that?

    > Syria is a moderate secular country and the US is currently trying to overthrow it.

    WTF? Care to cite your source on that?

    As for Iran, when did that business with the Shah happen? 1953 wasn't it? Since that time how many governments has Iran put in power themselves? Anyway, the previous Shaw was put in power by the UK in a 1921 coup.

    Iran has had apple opportunity to have a worthwhile government, instead they give control to religious leaders.

  172. walterbyrd

    > Iran had a moderate secular government before the US overthrew and it put the Shah, and extremely brutal dictator, in charge

    Bulls*it. The extremely brutal dictator was put in charge by Iranians after the Iranian revolution in 1979.

    The Shah who that was in charge before that modernized Iran using oil revenues.

  173. the silenced masses

    When Gaddafi took over the country it was one of the poorest on the continent. When the US overthrew him, because he was planning on creating his own currency which meant he would no longer be selling oil in petrodollars, Libya had the highest quality of life on the continent.

    I take it for granted you understand none of this. You are an extremely misinformed, uneducated individual. It's staggering how little you know about history and the world. But considering the state of America's education system and considering people like you learn everything you know from Fox "News", which has been proven to make people dumber, your idiocy doesn't comes as a that much of a surprise

  174. walterbyrd

    Do you ever stop lying? Practically all of your "facts" are not true. The USA did not overthrow Gaddafi.

    > in 2011 an anti-Gaddafist uprising led by the National Transitional Council (NTC) broke out, resulting in civil war. NATO intervened militarily on the side of the NTC, bringing about the government's downfall

    Also, your view of Gaddafi is a idealized to say the least. Did you forget about this?

    > The Libyan government of Muammar Gaddafi funded terror operations against the United States, most notably the 1986 Berlin discotheque bombing.

    You punch us, we punch. Nothing unfair about that.

  175. the silenced masses

    I'm sorry, but I can't continue this discussion. It is useless trying to talk to someone who who has no idea what they're talking about, but insists they are right. Fact means nothing to you. It's more than obvious that everything you know you learned from watching Fox "News". Your mind has been so badly warped by propaganda that there is zero hope for you to ever free yourself.

    What's depressing is that a large percentage of the American population is as misinformed and delusional as you are. That's why your government continues to get away with the crimes the commit around the world

  176. Odel

    They are thugs, they are not real muslims. Rich (Salahuddin) is also a thug and agent of MI6. They are just to malign Islam. If you want to see the real face of Islam, please study Rumi (Mawlana Jalaluddin Balkhi)

  177. Odel

    Ghadafi was also a thug a dog a heinous creature who was suppressing his people and doing weird things. He deserved to be

  178. Geert

    Doesnt like freedom ? He s enjoying freedom to try spread his hate-beliefs.

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