Clash of the Worlds

Clash of the WorldsExploring how past conflicts between a Christian West and Islam can help explain more recent violence.

This series looks at three great clashes between a Christian British Empire and Islam:

The Indian Mutiny of 1857, the Mahdi uprising in 1880s Sudan and the creation of the state of Israel in the first half of the twentieth century.

The first programme tells the story of the Indian uprising in which both sides committed atrocities in the name of their faiths. Episodes included: Mutiny, Sudan, and Palestine.

Watch the full documentary now (playlist)

Ratings: 5.50/10 from 2 users.

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133 Comments / User Reviews

  1. israeli

    about the last film...
    i want to let the viewers know that there is a palestinian authority which will become a country some day, and that the wall constructed between us and them is on a border line. the wall has reduced the number of terrorist acts originated from the west bank to zero, there for helping israel defend its civilians and improving the economical situation in the palestinian territories.
    in adition to that despite of what you may have heard in the news, israeli soldiers are doing their best not to harm any civilian population, the problem is that those terrorist hide among their own people and terning them into human shield.
    i hope like all israelis that peace will come and some day we can all leave in harmony.

  2. A. - Joe

    Hello! There!!! lf the Almighty God has given you The Promise Land, He did not say you are going to live in lsolation, He definitely knew there were people living there too, which means you have to live in peace with them. lf the Nazis have mascred you and the whole world supported you, why do you do the same thing to your neighbours. Remember that God did not only created Jews, he created others as well and He value of us and want us to live in peace .Why not give peace a chance? Remember your support from the US cannot be forever as well as your humiliation of the Palestians as well as the world

  3. israeli

    hi joe,
    first of all i am not a religious person, so i don't think that god put us in the holy land and i dont think that we are the only ones deserve peacfull lives here.
    mind you, inside the state of israel about 20% of the population are arab israelis with equal rights and no restrictions.
    about the comparison you did between us and the nazis, it really hearts me to hear that, especially as somebody who did their millitary service and tried his best like his friends to be fare with the palestinians.
    you need to realise that israeli soldiers are not different from any civilian in your country, we grew in a democracy and we are being taught in the army first of all to be carefull about human lives, and thats what we try to do, although at war inside a civilian area there are innocent casualties, but there was absolutely not even one case of deliberate killing of innocent people, although the palestinians are trying very hard to show that there is, and their fakes already won the name "palewood" (heard it in the german television).
    as i sad, we want peace, it's not that the other side wants it so badly and we are the ones to turn it down..
    i guess every side wants peace in the best turms possible, and we will have to find a way to compromise.

  4. A. - Joe

    Hello! Thanks for the reply. l really know that there some Jews who actually want peace with the Palestinians. Am also not so much engrossed in religion but l belive there is a creator or a supreme being somewhere. ln the first place why do you have to go war to mistakingly kill innocent people? Peace can be achieved if the peace loving people would one do away with those who produce arms to advance their economies and stay in business and to exert their influence on the rest of the world. That knowledge of creating arms to destroy life and property could have been use to creat other things to improve peoples life and also a congenial enviroment so that we can all live in peace and happiness. l hope one day we will get up one morning to hear that the Palestinians and the Supreme Jewish state have signed a peace agreement that will last forever.

  5. israeli

    joe i believe your good intentions, problem is that the world is not as simple as you described it..
    i think you would have to take a good look at israel-arab states history to understand who are those palestinians (jordenians and egyptians) and why are we in those terrtories (which we do not claim are a part of israel and didn't want in the first place). there are a lot of things beyond good will, and the palestinians them selves have two heads now, one of them do not want peace by any turms (google hamas).
    that's reality...

  6. Indian

    Dear Israeli,

    The wall between the Palestinian Authority and Israel is NOT on the border line. It is actually built into the Authorities area, any look on the maps will show you that. It is a land grab, just like the settlements. Even the 20% in Israel are ostracized with their areas being denied development funds and rampant discrimination practiced to keep them down. The "authority" is being riddled with large settlements and "natural growth" and while one can hope, one really wonders if the Palestinian authority will ever be a viable country or an offer that is actually worth accepting, one that is fair and just, will ever be made to them unless Israels arm is twisted. In all appearance it appears Israel wants the land but not the people and is trying to figure how it can achieve this with daily evictions and harassment of the local population with every day resulting in a "unnatural shrinkage" of their lands and the asking that Palestinians forced out of their lands in this conflict be denied the "right of return" to their homelands while Jews with no connection to the land in recent times are imported from across the globe and paid to settle on Palestinian land. Take a look at any city and village name in Israel, it is one given in the last 50 years, the old one is invariably an Arabic name given by the original inhabitants of the land who have not been pushed into the concentration camps or open air prisons that are the West Bank and Gaza Strip. It is sad that given the historic experience of the Jews and the holocaust, they choose to revisit their horror on others.

  7. israeli

    dear indian,
    i can sea that you have a lot of knowledge about this area and i respect that, but, knowledge often depends on the interpretation of facts. first of all a border line between us and the palestinians will only be after we agree on a border line, so to say that we crossed the border line (in the context of the wall) brings the question of which border line are we talking about. the first border line agreed by the UN in 1947 was accepted by israel and immidiately crossed by the arab countries when they started the 1948 war.
    the borders changed each time they attacked us through the years (yes, they attacked us), each time we won the war we took a security zone to assure that the next time will be more difficult for them. when there was a leader in the other country that wanted to make peace with us we gave them back their territories (see egypt).
    the settlements are also negotiable, don't think for a moment that we won't give them away when we will have the chance of a real peace like we did with egypt.
    about the camps you describe, those camps were made by the palestinians as means of pressure, you can compare it to the
    settlements case. it is definitely not israel's interest for them to stay in those poor places and become an easy target for terrorist recruitment.
    about the places names, Jerusalems name is a few thousand years old, and some of the other names remaind arabic and some got the name of a new jewish city nearby. i don't see the point here..
    about the jews import, those jews suffered in europe, in north africa and in the arab countries around us, so i wouldn't exactly describe it as an import but more like the only place jews won't be haunted. if there is someone to blame for the jewish will to come to israel it is the way the europians and arabs treated them in their countries.
    and don't forget that the jews did not get out of israel voluntarily 2000 years ago, so you speak about their right of return yet forget about ours. and also this is the only place for jews, there are a lot more options for arabs, which by the way are not deferent from jordenian, Lebanese or syrian arabs, the term "palestinians" was invented about 30-40 years ago as a way of legitimizing their claims. you have got to admit though, they where very cleaver picking the old name of this area so it would seem like continuity.

  8. Hesus

    @ israeli

    You mention that some 2000 years ago Jews were forced out of Israel. This claim that israel belongs to you because of a 2000 year old injustice is ludacris. How many people were forced to leave their homes in human history. If you have right to this land so do native americans to their land that was taken from them around 500 years ago. So indians should be able to take the US back as it belonged to them first. Ofcourse that will never happen. Where do you draw the line and what makes israelis so special?

  9. Mr posative

    How can anyone kill someone and then say they believe in good ? what ever happened to though shalt not kill.
    There is no excuse it is all just murder.....

  10. me

    to Mr P.
    There is a book from a different religion but the same god says though shall capture and kill Jews wherever u can cut off their hands and feet and so on. In that book Jews are also a chosen nation. Check out some good films about it on this web site ;}

  11. israeli

    To hesus- my point is that we have a right to this land as much as the palestinians have, and there were some jewish people in israel doring those 2000 years too...

    To mr posative- when i was in highschool 2 girls in my class who did nothing bad in their lifes were murdered along with 15 other innocent people when a terrorist decided that allah is important enough to blow up a bus full of jews. if you won't kill the person that sent this man out there there will be a lot more people getting killed. sometimes when it is kill or get killed you have no option. if you think that we are aiming at innocent people or just kill for fun then you should THINK harder.
    seeing your reactions made me realise, the arab propaganda is working perfectly, you don't even verify things, you just think:"oh those israeli's are such bad people, they just kill innocent palestinians" you don't stop for a moment to think who are those israelis, who are they fighting, why are they fighting.

  12. Indian

    Dear Israeli,

    The recent history of the land of Palestine after the British took it during the first world war from the Ottomans is indeed a tragedy, beginning with the Balfour Tragedy. The racist Europeans just wanted to eject their Jewish problem much as the Israelis wish to, their Palestinian problem today. The Colonial policy of subordination of the Arabic population, language or customs in Palestine with the imposition of Jewish nationality upon the inhabitants of Palestine as a whole was a tragic error that has plunged the land into turmoil. Jews preferred to live in Arab lands over Europe prior to this conflict and the mass immigration and zionist policies are the root cause of todays bad blood between the Jewish people and Arabs. It took a long while, massive inducements and false flag operations before a lot of the Jewish people agreed to leave Arab lands, inspite of the conflict, and fill the demographic void that was needed to create a viable excuse for the larger State of Israel. People lived in the land thousands of years before the Jews first arrived, people lived in the land for thousands of years after the Jews were forced out as well, these ARE the Palestinians, they are Christians and Muslims who used to speak Latin and later spoke Arabic. Truth is there was no Israel in the British Mandate of Palestine, note the name predates the state of Israel, was even part of the Roman terminology and Ottoman terminology for the area as well. If you think about it, the creation of Israel was itself a foreign invasion and the Arab attempt to liberate their lands in 1948 a natural result. They had tried to stop this process of loss of their lands to foreigners being settled in their lands two decades earlier as well when they were brutally crushed by the Hagenah and the British colonial forces. Jewish people were transplanted onto their land. They had no beef with the local Jews who lived their throughout the Arab empires history. It was the mass arrivals facilitated by the British and supported by military force in the last century that created this mess. Would you seriously expect to be welcomed by a people whose ancestral lands you have bulldozed and built over and then see themselves pushed them into squalor and poverty and having to stare down a the butts of guns every day, have their homes broken into and abducted for resisting by throwing stones, see their loved ones die because they are blocked from getting to a hospital. Do you really think that people who have been subjected to this kind of treatment will not just be angry, but violently angry and seek to strike at their oppressor in any given form they care. When stones failed, they turned to rockets and bombs. Remember, Ben Gurion, Ariel Sharon etc. and even George Washington were also once nothing more than terrorists. One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. State sponsored terror, is a lot more lethal cocktail that kills thousands of Palestinians and ruins the lives of a lot more, than the random occasional bomb or rocket that these desperate wretches managed to get their hands on. Everyone of these families had members killed by Israel forces, tortured by the Israeli forces, deprived of basic amenities until eventually they snap. They are human. To me a just anf fair resolution would be as follows: Today a lot of Israelis know no home beyond Israel and well for good or ill they are now a part of the landscape and so I would not have them leave. Rather I propose that the Palestinian people given a "right of return" with the same benefits accorded to Jews today so that they can return to their homes and set up in the lands of Israel and Palestine. An end to the oppression and discrimination and a restitution or recompense paid out to them for their suffering. The two people living side by side in a single state, rather than having them shunted into a rump state and run from their homes. Could you ever agree to a peace where all the Palestinians are allowed to return to their lands and settle in peace beside the now present population of Jews, in the whole of their lands and not just a little corner of Gaza and the West Bank??

  13. jkaz

    To Indian,
    If palestinians were given a right to return, what would they be returning to? I cannot see an israeli leaving their home because a palestinian claims that he lived there previously. Where would the israeli go? Israel is already densley populated so where would the palestinians live? Who would arbitrate when the inevitable squabbles start about who is the rightfull owner of a particular patch of land. I think the sharing of israel by jews and palestitians is impossible.

    Personally I think the creation of a jewish state was a mistake. The land known as the British Mandate of Palestine should have been made into a single nation or prehaps two, Palestine and Transjordan, with no preferance to any one religion. Jews, muslims and christians would have to live side by side. Would this work? I don't know, but I don't think it would have resulted in a bigger mess than the current situation. The israel-palestinian problem has become a gordian knot. Each passing year makes the situation worse. Both the israeli and palestinians poplutions are growing rapidly, through immigration or by birth, yet the amount of land remains constant. Population pressure and access to resources such as fresh water means the situation is likely to get increasingly volatile. Sadly, I really can't see this ending nicely.

  14. israeli

    "People lived in the land thousands of years before the Jews first arrived, people lived in the land for thousands of years after the Jews were forced out as well, these ARE the Palestinians, they are Christians and Muslims who used to speak Latin and later spoke Arabic"
    even the palestinians them selves don't think that they were here before the jews, there were 12 tribes in israel, one of those tribes was the jewish tribe and the others are probably todays palestinians, but they were not palestinians back than..not that it matters so much, just to clear the point.

    "One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter"
    for me the line is very clear, i'm not complaining about it when they are trying to fight against the army, but when they blow up a bus full of civilians thats about the exact time they lose their right to be called freedom fighters.

    now about the right of return, there were about half a million refugees (estimated) which have now turned into about 5 million. israel is a 7.5 million people country (without the palestinian authority), with little land and 2 thirds desert, asking me to accept 5 million ignorant hatefull people into my country is like asking me to shut myself. the solution is to offer them compensations or a house in the west bank where there is a lot more space and also not to all of them. by the way this is agreeable with the PLO leaders although they will not say it out loud.
    and when you say: "in the whole of their lands and not just a little corner of Gaza and the West Bank"
    take a look at the map, israel is the real little corner.
    israel without desert= 0.33*20= 6.7
    west bank + gaza stripe= 6.2
    israel- 7.5 million
    west bank+gaza stripe- about 3.5 million

    by the way if you will have this conversation with an arab person living in israel he will say the same thing, don't think for a moment that the israeli arabs don't thank god every day to have a democratic jewish country rather than an extreme islam totalitarian country. this is the only country in the middle east were they can actually do whatever they want. think about another thing, each israeli have to do an army service of 2-3 years (3-man, 2-women), not the greatest pleasure, the arabs in the meanwhile can go to university like in every normal country, and they even need lower SAT scores because of the country's considiration of those who do not learn hebrew as their first language. and did i mention they have parliament representatives? and freedom to demonstrate? and to buy an appartment in any city in israel?
    their footballers play for the israeli national team and are proud of it. they have professors at the universities.

    and most importantly when some polititian says that we might consider having an arab village inside israel should be a part of the future palestinian state....................

    this is my last comment here, and all i wanted to say was that we are not so bad as described in some of the media and the people here, we try to do things with reason, we might have done mistakes in the past and we will continue to do mistakes in the future, that's human nature and we are no differnt. the most important thing is that every jewish man and woman in israel would give everything to live in peace (i can only speak for my side), you can argue that our way of doing that is not the best one or that the current government is doing things the wrong way (as i also think at the moment) but don't think we don't want peace and prosperity for both sides, because it just isn't true.
    thank you.

  15. israeli

    sorry, israels territory is 22 (thousand square kilometers)
    so that is the right calculation- 0.33*22=7.34

  16. Indian


    I like how you prefer to explain away Palestinians as a modern invention to try and legitimize Jewish claims to the land and delegitimize that of the people who lived there. Unfortunately, it is merely a mindset that enables you to excuse oppression and repression of others. The truth still stands, the land was occupied by others before, during and after the Jews. People come and people go, a Jew who lived in the area called Palestine is as much a Palestinian as an Arab, a Chaldean or Assyrian or Roman or whatever. Syrians of Palestine are recorded from as early as the 5th century BC and there was a reason why it was called the British Mandate of Palestine. Most relevantly it refers to the people who called the region their home before the mass invasion of settlers displaced them. Thats history, after all if science is right we all really just came out of africa and as far as tribes go quite a few believe the most of israelis are from Khazaria anyway and not even linked to the old jewish lands.

    As far as accepting 5 million ignorant hateful people into your country goes....well truth is that is the only fair and just resolution...after all that's what you have forced them to do at gun point. Unfortunately, the Palestinians are never going to get justice and no Israeli will ever give them that, so you will crush them underfoot until they stop twitching in resistance and content themselves with sops. Unfortunately, this not true peace and reconciliation, this a take or leave it situation and in such a case people will only suffer the injustice until they can "fix it". Can you even imagine a country partitioned so that to get to one portion you have to travel a foreign and hostile country?

    I am not sure what world you live in that the Arabs are happy to be in the 2008 National Resilience Survey, conducted by Tel Aviv University, 43% of Muslims refer to themselves as "Palestinian-Arabs"; only 15% defined themselves as "Arab-Israelis" and four percent of those surveyed said they considered themselves "Muslim-Israelis". According to the same survey, 24% of Christians in Israel said they defined themselves as "Arab-Palestinians", 24% referred to themselves as "Arab-Israelis", and an equal number of respondents said they considered themselves "Christian-Israelis". Clearly, mostly still resisting identifying with Israel except under duress. Eight of nine of these Arab Knesset members have been beaten by Israeli forces during demonstrations, what kind of democratic representation are they really getting when two Knesset related laws aimed to "significantly curb the minority [Arab population] right to choose a public representative and for those representatives to develop independent political platforms and carry out their duties are passed. They are not enlisted in the army, not to be nice to them but because they are considered to be the enemy within, a bone that was swallowed during conquest that cant be spit out and must be endured, you can easily hear this in the talks of Avigdor Liebermann. The best they get is second class treatment. 36 of 40 towns with high unemployment are Arab majority towns, whats the point of the degrees? If they get jobs, they are payed on average 30% lower than Jewish Israelis, 80% of the Negev Bedouin live below the poverty line. The only reason they would be hesitant to go to a free Palestine is because they know it will be a crippled state with even fewer opportunities, it does not mean they are treated well in Israel. Heck Jews are not even allowed to marry non-jews in Israel.


    Unfortunately I agree, as you can see, fairness and justice is not the lot of the Palestinians. To fight for this they have to get nasty, to ensure that they do not get this their opponents have to be tyrannical.

  17. afly_on_the_wall


    I'm just guessing ,but i take it you don't live in Israel.
    have you seen the documentary "occupation 101"? my husband is Palestinian. yeah your right they would love to be part of ,not living under, Israel. Israel has everything. the best products ,industry, jobs, hospitals, water, land, while over the wall there is a big getto. yes the "freedom fighters" lose the respect of all Palestinians when they blow up a bus of Innocent people. as does the Israeli army they wont let a women in a labor get in to the hospital and the baby and or mother dies. or shoot a young boy for throwing a rock. or bull doze 200 year old olive trees.
    or bull doze your house down ...not only once but no matter ware you try to live your told you don't have the right to have a house on land that's been in your family for hundreds of years. have you looked at a map of the "occupied" area of the once Palestinian territories?

    all i can say is its a sad sorry subject. i thought our intellect as a human race had matured passed the separation wall idea after the cold war was over.

    on a clear night go out side and look up. try to realize that earth is just a small spec on the beach of the universe. and Israel/Palestine is even a smaller spec on a spec of the beach of the universe. then ask your self if "god" really cares what pach of dirt you call your own. and then. look to what you think to be "your" life. you are a spec on a spec on a spec of beach of the universe. comparatively so small yet so big its hard to see past your self.
    then ask your self "what is really important" i promise you it is answer you already have.

  18. Andrine

    This is why this situation is absolutely hopeless—and always will be.

    Either things happened a certain way, or they didn't. Why, for f*ck's sake, are there a zillion versions of "what really happened."

    There must be a chronological, un-refuted order of things we can agree on. Either things happened in a certain order, or they didn't. How hard is it to determine what the historical order of things is?

    Everyone has their own set of facts, depending upon whether one's a jew or a muslim. Do you have any idea how much the WORLD is sick of your incessantly childish sh*t? Both sides should be ashamed. It ruins it for everyone. Sort it out because we're losing patience.

    Additionally, it's interesting to me that the good ol' British, the Captains of Ineptitude, seem to forget how much they are to blame for this mess. Is there ANYTHING they didn't screw up?

  19. israeli

    well, i do live in israel, and will continue living in israel. i think things may seem different from the outside. but the fact is that the palestinians in the west bank do not have worse conditions of living than the arabs living in the other countries in the middle east, and if they would cooperate more with israel they would definitely live much better than they do now. although i'm not a racist and do not think that jews are better than arabs, but one MUST wonder wheather israel's part of the unsuccessful palestinian case is really that big. after all we did not come to a high-tech scholar country beforehand, yet being accused their people are not doing as well as they could. and under the jordenian and egyptian rule in west bank and gaza (prior to 1967) their situation was NOT better than it is now.
    few more points: 1. the druze and Bedouin people do serve in the israeli army alongside with the jews, and arabs have the possibility to do that as well, they just prefare not to (although there are some arabs in the army).
    2. about the the woman in labor, unfortunately the terrorists are using what ever they can to commit their attacks on israel and a woman acting like pregnant on her way to the hospital is no exeption, ofcourse not all pregnant women are suicide bombers but you have to understand the suspicion does not come out of nowhere. our soldiers are not their to kill but to protect, i guess those things could happan (heard about this case) and it's really sad, what can i say..
    3. if you have a palestinian husband my best guess is that you don't live inside the palestinian authority and neither does he. the best palestinian horror stories are made by palestinians who do not live there and only hear half a story, than a wounded terrorist become a dad child.
    4. liberman is the easiest target there is, he is a stupid rude racist that does not represent israel, he is only around for a year now, and will be gone in 3 years, i promise.

  20. israeli

    i don't think that the situation is hopeless, we will have peace when both sides will have the right leaders and when they get enough courage.
    the problem is that gaza stripe is ruled by hamas. there are now 2 leaders claiming control for the palestinian authority, with very different agendas. who are we supposed to negoshiate with?
    the other problem is the current israeli government which is probably the most problematic one in decades. but this is israel, goverments change every 2-4 years.

  21. Andrine

    Nope, Israeli, I think the discourse between you and Indian provides great evidence for my point. The situation is hopeless. All you've been doing is going back and forth—and, neither of you have the same historical facts, nor can you agree on them.

    See, this is why so many of us are SO fed up with the situation over there. It endless, and tedious.

  22. israeli

    dear andrine,
    despite of what i wrote, i don't believe any of the facts 100%, i think that in general (not only in this conflict) that the truth is always somewere in the middle, i only wanted to show that there is another side of the storey, but conflicts don't get solved by historical facts. they are solved by a combination of interest of both sides to live a better lifes. that's why there is hope. when i was a child my mother told me- "i hope that by the time you're 18 years old there won't be an army and there will be peace" that hope will continue with me when i'll have children, i don't give a rat's as* about history, all i care about is the future.
    right now the situation in the west bank is the best it has ever been believe it or bombs, one leadership, economic growth, the problem is that all they show on the news is gaza stripe that is beeing controlled by the hamas and therefore sieged by israel (and egypt, but don't tell anyone, they don't wanna be the bad guy in this storey). by the way hamas took control in gaza stripe through slaughtering the phatah people there, so the palestinians in the west bank are half happy to see hamas rule going down (and half sad on the population there used as human shield).
    as you can see situation is not simple but not hopeless...

  23. A. - Joe

    Hello! No condition is perminent. lsrael should know that, as a small nation, they conquered 3 strong Arab countries within 6 days or so without the precision guided missiles, the drones and other dangerious weapons. Day in and day out, the Palestians are also growing in technology - from stones to home-made rockets and just recently, during the reign of that 'madman' called Bush, lsrael tried the paws of Hisbolla in Lebano and what happend? just an organisation or call it a group of hardcore fanatic Freedom Fighters Arabs. lsrael could not subdue them, in short, you cannot forever control knowledge or power, now that lsrael has the power, She can quickly and wisely achieve peace with much respect. What they lsrael must know is that, after the invasion of lraq, power has mistakingly been handed over to the Shiates and for that matter lran in the region. So peace lovers in lsrael, the earlier the better.

  24. A. - Joe

    Come on! give as a breathing space! in the first place, - Who is a Terrorist? l am not an Arab or a muslim neither am l a Jew. Why do you think you talk to God direct and others don't? A weak person cannot be a terrorist until you dehumanise him and makes live for him not worth living

  25. israeli

    hi joe,
    i can't see how did we dehumanise hizbollah for instance and made them kidnap our soldiers and bomb israeli cities. sometimes it seems as if the more that we give back and the more we want peace they are getting more determined to kill every israeli alive (happand when we got out of lebanon, and when we got out of gaza stripe) and that's why idiots like liberman get elected, cause the public see's that the more we give (or give back) the more we receive rockets and missiles on our cities.
    as you can see we're not getting much help from the other side when we are trying, so the situation is not that simple.
    sometimes even when you have the power it's difficult to use it to make peace. i'm not blaming it all entirely on the other side, ofcourse i hope for a fast change of governments in israel that could make peace more possible.

  26. afly_on_the_wall


    um well , with out going into why or how. my husband lives in Jordan right now where he waiting for his visa to come to the US where i am.

    if we had met any other place on the plaint he would have been here a long time ago. but trying to get his papers together in Palestine was almost imposable. the first attempt. He was held and interrogated for 7 hours. Because if you are Palestinian they think you just have to know some one who planing to blow something up.
    He says the Jews have a rite to be paranoid. But its the whole population that is punished for the deplorable action of a few.
    Before 1948 wealth was not measured in Palestine by weather or not you had a cell phone and a car. But how well your trees and vegetables did every year. So if your talking about standards of living you need to also look about standards of culture witch for the Palestinian people has just about been bull dozed to death. This is a type of genocide (integrate or depopulate)
    why?. well as silly as it sounds to me. the world governments in power seem to think its the will of god. As if god and his angels are sitting on the side lines rooting for the Jews. ARE YOU SERIOUS?
    I would just like to add that although i think your understanding might be a little skewed . It is nice to see you have some inherent understanding of what is fair. I will thank you for that. and hope there a lot more like you in Israel. If so there might just be a chance this can stop some day.

  27. israeli

    you will be surprised of the amounts of self criticism there is in israel, on any subject, including the palestinian issue. and i think that there are more people like me who don't believe we are right whatever we do than the other kind, the problem is that for both sides, it's very easy to influence peoples opinions because both side are right at some level (i won't get to the same old historical claims) and in both sides you can find people that would happily shut each other, i guess it's much easier to find those people in the palestinian side because of their economical situation and their way of education (although ours is not perfect either).
    but despite all things i'm an israeli and believe israel has a right to exist as the only place where jewish people feel at home, hopefully with more consideration of others in the future, so that we will live more peacefully and harmonically with our neighbors.
    i wish you will unite with your husband and some day when things are better come to visit both israel and palestine.

  28. mahususi

    The conflict between palestinians and "israelis" is more religious one.The so called israelis especially the rulers and the beneficiaries of this apartheid system are whites from parts of europe and america who have converted to judaism but basically they are americans,british ,french,russians etc.On one hand they are supported by a group of narrow minded conservertive,evengelical christians who read the bible literally who think that they will help to fast track the second coming of christ.During the apartheid white minority government,this so called jews worked with them and funded by the christian conservetives to destabilize the southafrican countries.
    The israel arabs are just paper citizens,even the black jews-falashas are mistreated because the policies of this nation are basically wicked including their god jehova.If you read the bible old testament you will see how this god used to commit atrocities against other communities who are non israelis.
    Genuine israelis should understand that their is a clique of evil people in america who are not interested in peace and it is the high time they started building real peace with the arabs.

  29. israeli

    damn...mahususi, you just blew our cover...what would the world do without your enlightening discoveries.

  30. afly_on_the_wall

    well you right.
    personally i hate to lump myself in to the same mind set of "the conspiracy theorist" but there is a big neon pink elephant in the room no one seems to be talking about. It really needs to be discussed. Not just on line in remote forums and chat rooms but out side in the street and at your kitchen table.
    there is some thing vary odd going on out there

  31. israeli

    you are not worth the time i'm spending explaining here.

  32. mahususi

    why cant "israelis" and palestinians live in peace?,what is there in this land they've been fighting for?.The white minority racist governers in south africa were fighting to benefit from mineral wealth of south africa,America invaded Iraq to steal its Oil.Though its unjustifyed we see where ppo fight over land the main motivation is whats beneath the ground.Dont be cheated this the zionists and neo-cons are fanatical religionists.
    Isn't it immorality of the highest form for the rich and able to steal from the poor?isn't it immoral to push ppo to desperation where there lives becomes so meaningless,where they become suicide bombers?Palestinians in occupied territories live desparate almost meaningless life,life is real tough and especially for the ppo of Gaza.
    Peoples of Israel should realise the neocons and zionists have no their interest at heart,and military might israel can not will not guarantee it peace.

  33. israeli

    There's nothing in this land, the only thing in it is the ability for Jews to live without being hated, and that too of course only by the Jewish population which is the majority (about 80%).

    By the way,if it's already mentioned, and since i already have the audience and wasted my time trying to explain Israel to deaf ears, i just wanted to say to all the self hating Americans: i do not buy the oil crap. you can argue the reason of starting the war in Iraq but what really matters is that America did not take control of the Iraqi oil and even lost a lot of money and it's best sons to this war. you should be proud of your nation for the ability to liberate the Iraqi people from the control of a madman and give them a viable democracy as you did in the past across the world.

    Luckily, America still has a say in the world, i wouldn't like to imagine what the world would look like in a few years dominated by Muslim "freedom fighters", Iran and China.

    Although from your comments here it sounds like heaven on earth compared to the American- Israeli way of ruling the world with their "apartheid" system of democracy.

  34. WTC7

    Hi israeli,

    None of us can be completely unbiased and that's a fact. But my heart goes for you, because I can see that you are trying to present the other side to the Israeli-Palestinian (eternal) story and that you are, if nothing, trying to maintain a balance while still defending the position of your country. And so you should. I wouldn't personally go into this discussion, but I can just say that I don't think the Palestinians are entirely without guilt for what is happening to them now.

    Greetings :-)

  35. Canadian

    I am sorry but you have your facts wrong. one of the fundamental things that always halt the peace talks is the settlement building and expansion in Palestinian territory. The network of heavily fortified settlement in Palestinian territory is nothing more then a land grab. I am not arguing that people in settlements should leave, but i am arguing that announcing expansion of settlements right after president of US says Israel needs to stop the unlawful expansion of settlement, and than announcing the expansion of east Jerusalem on the day that vise-president arrive to facilitate peace talks, can be seen as nothing else but a deliberate attempt to derail the peace process.
    Peace can only be achieved through some compromise. Israel unwillingness to compromise, despite being told exactly what the critical issue is, shows fundamentally a lack of good well. That is the root cause of the lack of peace.
    Israel's politics is controlled by hardliner right now that for the sake of internal politics, cannot back down settlement building issues. I think this has some religious connection with the size of the promised land as according to the old testament. I understand that. but don't kid yourself into thinking Israel's hands is clean.

    Religion is the root of evil for sure man. all religion. every single one of them.

  36. israeli

    canadian, you say that the current government is a hardliner and i agree with that. but past governments weren't hardliners, and they would have happily give the settlements on a golden plate for peace.
    show me a palestinian leader who will accept the "land for peace" formula and i'll show you a peace agreement.
    and if you do want to get the facts right the palestinians do not ask us to say good bye to the settlements as a condition to peace, but only as a condition to start the talks. the only problem is that obama is unaware enough of their past to buy this cr*p.
    the pressure of obama on israel makes people like you belive that the palestinians are such nice guys that only want peace and their land back..
    well i would like that to be the case..
    and as for Religion issues, im not Religious, and i hate Religious fanatics, jews or muslims. but as for the jewish ones, they are not in control of our country. our leading party is always a secular one, and it's ambitions are not Religion oriented.

  37. Hardy

    "and if you do want to get the facts right the palestinians do not ask us to say good bye to the settlements as a condition to peace, but only as a condition to start the talks"

    And that is unreasonable? You're ridiculous.

    "our leading party is always a secular one, and it’s ambitions are not Religion oriented."

    That is bullsh*t. I'd love to dig out the innumerable quotes of the Israeli political leaders in which they continue to declare the 'jewish race' as superior to all others, but I doubt you are willing to see both sides of the coin.

  38. WTC7

    @ Hardy, I don't think that the notion of denying the Jewish state the right to exist is something that inspires confidence about peaceful intentions either...

  39. Hardy

    As said, there are two sides of the coin. In essence, there are radicals on both sides that want to kill all of 'their enemies' who prevent peace for everyone else.

    But to say the Israeli government is secular and striving for peace is just as much cr*p as saying the hamas loves all jews.

  40. WTC7

    Ok, there I can agree with you

  41. israeli

    hardy, you have absolutely no idea about how the palestinian authority acts and what are their interests.
    i didn't say we are angels sent from the skies to help the palestinian people get whatever they want in this world, ofcourse there are two sides to this coin and we are trying to protect our interest which is not to get blown to pieces after we leave those places without an agreement of something to replace us. we will give them guns and we will train them to fight their terrorist (as we did in the past) but those things are discust in the negotiations.
    as for the govenment- jewish is a both religulous and an ethnic term. when israeli govenment speak about jews they are talking about the jewish people, not the jewish religion, as opposed to muslim or christian which only has one meaning.
    and if you have a quote of any official saying the jewish RACE is superior i will leave israel never to return.
    of course we have our pride of the jewish people and stuff but you will never hear anybody saying anything about race.
    you should be ashamed for your lies. i say things based on my own expirience, on what i here on the news and what i know from my military service (not classified stuff ofcourse). you are trying to invent proofs for your unbased theories and convince people who don't have the knowledge to be judgmental about it.

  42. Hardy

    'Our race is the Master Race. We Jews are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattlce at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves.' – Menachem Begin, Israeli Prime Minister to New Statesman magazine on June 25, 1982

    Not a politician from today, obviously. Still an official statesman.

    Paraphrased recent quotes:

    Yisrael Beitenu: Not a single Palestinian refugee will return to Israel, the hamas needs to be 'strangled'.

    Liebermann: 'Do to Hamas what US did to Japan'.

    My opinion: Everybody has a right to live where they chose. The jews have no undeniable right to 'the holy land', nor do the muslims. But eh, they'll never have peace.

    'Israeli', I assume you live in Israel? I wish your country would be able to make the first UNCONDITIONAL step to peace. But they won't. And so, Israel will shoot Palestinians, Palestinians will shoot Israelis, Israelis will shoot Palestinians again and it will never stop. Why don't the Palestinians make the first step? Why don't they stop shooting rockets? Simple: they have nothing to lose. The reason why hamas is so powerful! Give people hope through radical politics and you will be voted.

    If you really want peace, if you really want attacks to stop the only possibility is to completely stop building settlements and stop aggression - under ANY condition. But as said, that will never happen.

    If it continues as it has for the last decades, Israelis will never be safe from suicide bombers and Palestinians will never have a future. Continue to shoot back and you will never live safely, it's simple logic.

    P.S.: Religions are stupid.

  43. Canadian

    hahaha now Israeli, i think you are looking for a new country to move to and never return. Might I recommend Canada. Come and find out what it means to co-exist.

    I am also still looking for you to admit that you mis-understood the Palestinian's request for the start of peace talks. and furthermore are you in favor of a halt to the EXPANSION of settlement.

    Now that I think about it, Israel has a good reason not to proceed with peace talk. While Suicide bomber are horrible, they do not change the political landscape, or control of territories. However, land grab through settlement expansion have a major effect on future boarder lines. This must be why the government is working so hard to derail the peace process. The longer they drag it out, the more land they control.

    I am not saying that this is the will of the Jewish people, A survey shows that a lot of the Israeli people want peace, and do not want to see the government derail the peace process. But you know how governments are, a lot of people in the US did not want to go into Iraq, but look at where they are.

  44. israeli

    28 years??
    thats what you've come up with to show me that i'm living in a racist country?
    as i sad before liberman does not represent us, nevertheless i don't see the bad thing in strangling hamas, it's the source of all evil, religious fanatics who want to spread their radical islam on the back of the palestinian cause.
    canadian, sorry for not appreciating your peacefull co- existance with your deers and glaciers, it's not that much of a chalenge, don't be so proud of it.
    as a matter of fact the country you live in is probably more racist than mine..jews can't live there without being humiliated by your peacefull canadian brothers since young age. you are probably not aware of those things cause you're not jewish.
    israel is the only place where a jew could live without being hated, the israel i grew up in will remain the same, the settlements will be palestinian territories when they will be able to agree on something among themselves, we will be there to give those settlements without a problem as we did in the gaza stripe. when we got out of gaza stripe the hamas brutally came in killing it's own brothers to take control, we won't let it happen in the west bank.
    all i try to do is to explain our side of the story, im not denying our mistakes and bad behavior in some cases at the past and present, but every country makes mistakes misjudging the situation and consequences of what they do. we did not do anything out of hate or racism, just pure interest when it seemd a good idea, when there wasn't a palestinian, only jordenian and egyptian, now, as situation has changed we've changed with it. the problem is that the arabs are not the easiest partners and israelis are not the most patient people.

  45. Hardy

    I give up on you, israeli.

  46. israeli

    i wish all your friends to do the same and don't try to protect those who try to missuse your peacefull approach.
    we've tried it before and it doesn't work. you have nothing to lose so i don't blame you for "free thinking", on the other hand israelis have got a lot to lose and im not talking land here, i don't care about land, let them take east jerusalem, the settlements and even the arab villages inside israel. all i care about is to have peace and security, one way or another. we will not let people like you, without any fear for the safety of the civilians of israel tell us what to do.
    as we speak i heard that there was a car bomb in new york, i suggest you to protest against the murderous FBI agents that stopped those innocent free fighters from killing u.s civillians in the name of their "right cause".
    i don't understand how can you seperate their actions from the hamas's actions. what? because it sounds better when israelis get killed than canadians or americans? let me tell you a secret, israelis are secrifying a lot more then you to live their lives in israel, they do it because they know there is no alternative.
    while you are getting drunk with your mates in college we are facing tose terrorist for 3 years, for one tenth of the minimum wage. we know who we are dealing with, there is no innocence in israel as in the US and canada where the civilians let their troupes die of critisism.

  47. Hippie

    "All we are saying, is give PEACE a chance." Peace my brothers.. :)

  48. Moey

    "as we speak i heard that there was a car bomb in new york, i suggest you to protest against the murderous FBI agents that stopped those innocent free fighters from killing u.s civillians in the name of their “right cause”.
    i don’t understand how can you seperate their actions from the hamas’s actions."

    On what grounds are you linking Hamas to that terrorist incident? What do you expect as the outcome when you depress thousands of inherent owners of a land and force them out of their homes by bulldozers and stripping them off from all necessary means of survival?

    "while you are getting drunk with your mates in college we are facing tose terrorist"
    You must realize reality and accept the fact that the root cause of the problem lies within the Israeli occupation, the outcome of unlawful and brutal Israeli occupation and expansion in effect leads to Palestinian uprising to defend their land which has been forcefully taken away from them by a ruthless force with disregard to human life. You claim that jews are hated in the world without asking yourself the reason. I personally regard everyone in the world including jews as humans who all deserve the right to equal treatment and justice, and I personally don't blame any of the Jews who support peace and equality between them and the Palestinians , but I instead blame their government who is controlled by the Zionist ideology. Many people hate the Jews because they associate Jews with what is going on when its their government who is the mastermind behind all evil.

    What do you have to say about the recent killings of 9 unarmed peaceful activists by Israeli commandos who raided the Flotilla ship carrying humanitarian supplies to the people suffering in Gaza? how is it justifiable to murder innocent peace activists in international waters by the Israeli government? and yet even worse get away with it without international condemnation. Is't this an act of state terrorism?

    When Palestinians stand up for their right to defend themselves when they have no other alternative, they are straight away labeled as terrorists, so how do you then describe this vicious and immoral act by Israel?

    First it was the Jews who were abused by the Nazis, now its the Palestinians being abused by the Jews. Can't you see no difference here? If Jews suffered under the Nazis then why take avenge by repeating the same to others?

    Unfortunately this is a indisputable reality which which can not be concealed by the continues propaganda efforts and those who genuinely search the truth will come to the same undeniable facts. I urge everyone reading this, not to take my word for it but to perform a simple research of their own, and arrive at their own conclusions.

    I'm only 17 with a clear ambition to spread the truth and promote peace and harmony among all humans on this earth. No matter the religion or racial background, we are all unified as human beings, what has divided us has been intolerance, and greed for power and status.

  49. islamic bomb

    in this world only two kinds of unnatural state come to exist.
    One is Pakistan an other is Israel, these two states were made on the name of the religion.
    paradoxically both states born out with huge massacre of the people on the name the religion, whereas,dichotomy is that one is Zionist an other is the fanatic Muslim.
    I'm sure whether you believe it or but not on one day both states will vanish away on face of the earth because of theirs own policies.

  50. israeli

    israel was built by secular jewish men and women who wanted refuge from the europian hatered. the religious jews were in israel all along and also came by later. but zionism is purely secular, it's goal is to set up a jewish nation and that israel will be a place that gets the rejected jews from all countries. that means that the common ground is the nazi determination of jews (how ironic), whoever was "jew enough" to be slaughtered by the nazis, is welcome.
    as for the arabs- they there was a UN decision which we accepted and they didn't, they started the war and people got killed, ours and theirs.
    however, everyttime that an arab gets killed in action he was "slaughtered". when an israeli gets killed the arab was just "defending his land".
    if israel would vanish then today's world is no better than the one of 1939. and i for one will go down with it, but i will not take arab women and children with me, because i don't believe in killing innocent people in the name of anybody.

  51. wake up!!

    for everyone
    this is a horrible situation that will probably go on for a long time. unfortunately there is wrongs on both sides. i feel sorry for the Palestinians for losing there homes.
    sadly, at the moment no human lives in a democracy. by the sounds of things no one is enjoying this war. i cant understand where a majority of a country does not like something but it still happens..... democracy? it is also making BIG money! Money for a number of countries aswell as private companys. the highest profiteering company last year was an american free lance military firm. i wonder what happens to this money... i have a feeling a large sum is invested into a political party for their election. i truly believe that ther doing this because they want that presdent/prime minster to run their country and they receive no personal gain from it. i see they increased troops in Afghanistan. i thought the americans voted for this figure to go down.
    im not surprised your governments have invested so much money in the green scheme, as this will probably be a new device to control you once religion has finally elapsed. i would not be surprised if our ancestors are conned into worshiping a type of plant.... that would obviously sell for a small fortune!
    they constantly claim that our water reserves are running low, like we own it, like humans are a strain on society itself. what about the poison that is being sold to the poor as food, the constant discoveries of preservatives and sweetners in bottled drinks being linked with cancer!!!! is that not a waste of water. the fact that all these things go on and nothing happens about it upsets me. why if no one agrees with it does it happen, i again question our democracy.
    having been a Christian growing up in a Muslim state i have a average knowledge on both religions and an interest in a number of others. my conclusion is they are all a device to control everyone! the books you worship are based on someone else's ideology not your gods. i live by my own rules. i respect all things and i answer only to myself. i worship my land, my friends and everything that i perceive to be good. democracy was finding a common ground... i feel the ground has been taken from under my feet and i am falling into the abyss. WHEN ARE PEOPLE GOING TO WAKE UP!
    i like history, im intrigued by the past. i liked this storey i heard they other day. ill simplify it, as the details were not important. a man discovered a grave truth that was being covered up by his king. which he told his greatest friend, who in turn was horrified by the news. they went to there town meeting and announced there untruth. soon the whole town was up in arms... word got to all around.... and THE PEOPLE should their presence in the city. the fear of them and losing control made the king back down.
    worryingly, if humans today here of a travesty, they moan and cry about it, but nothing is done about. thats because the divides in our community's are massive, generally with a just as big super market in the middle.they have been devious! the lack of enthusiasm about politics in young people is no accident. the English election made me laugh... if i only watched the bbc i would only no the colours red, blue and yellow. i thought propaganda was illegal.
    everything is international now. we have complaints, but there not the governments fault anymore..... its Europe! so we squabble amongst ourselves and rarely hear what is happening to are fellow humans! we are all the same... just because a person inherits 100 hotels, doesnt give him any right over a 6 year old starving child to his £100 steak!! there is enough money in the world for everyone to live problem free and happy. the problem is 95% of all that money in the world is owned by 5% of humans..... just humans. what happened to helping your neighbor. imagine a world without poverty.. this people are the ones that caan stop it.... but then who would they exploit. im afraid we live in a very dark world where they will continue to break up are community's, withhold vital information and try to control us all under one rule.
    im all for globalization.... thats everyone in the globe getting together and show them we are feed up of being treated like this!!!

  52. Jibran

    Since when has the apartheid situation the arabs face inside Israel been equivalent to "equal status" for everyone? Please refer to "The Other Side of Israel" and Jonathan Greening's books. It will open your eyes regarding the 2nd class citizens in Israel.

  53. israeli

    i didn't understand if you refer to the status of the arabs in the Palestinian territories (west bank and gaza) or the arabs inside israel.. there's a big difference between their status. i didn't read the book, but if you refer to the arabs within israel's borders, there are several problems that need to be taken care of like their ability to get a job, the problem in many times is language problem, since we use hebrew and for them it's the second language which makes it difficult for them in some jobs. i don't deny there are people that "won't hire an arab" which to my opinion is humiliating, yet you can't really say anything to them if they own a company. the arabs also have a problem collecting municipal taxes from their people (in all arab towns) resulting a big deficit in the budget and bad living conditions, there's a great effort right now to give them a larger government support to help them build a better tax system and create better living conditions.

  54. hank

    To all of those brainwashed Israel supporters who forget or
    ignore the 1967 U.S.S. Liberty, who refuse to recognize the crimes of Dov Zakheim, 9-11 terrorist and so called rabbi, and who continue to hide their head in the sand--there is nothing wrong with Israel that a Neutron bomb exploded at 3,000 feet above Tel Aviv can't cure!

  55. israeli

    don't you worry, soon there will be someone with the ability and the ambition to do just that (Ahmadinijad).
    your only problem is that your city is his next target after israel is finished.
    i won't be here, you won't be here, all that will be left is a billion muslims living by the quran, fighting among themselves with nobody to blame for anything.

  56. Randy

    Joseph Cambpell, (paraphrased, no googling, off the top of my head...)

    "The Middle East has been in turmoil for centuries and they go around murdering each other, Jews, Muslims and christians, because they can not agree on the name of god..."

    Really? Here's a radical idea:

    FORGET ABOUT THIS GOD MONSTER! We would all be alot happier, if you did this, until we laid down and died.

    ... a failed, flawed, horrible species, we all are...

    I'm just sayin'

  57. israeli

    see that's what you guys don't realize.
    it was never about god for us jews, maybe to some jews, but most of us are not religious so it isn't about god. it's about a place of our own, a place that was ours in the past and we reclaimed it. for the arabs it wasn't about god either, it was about the dream of united arab nation and territorial domination. the problem is that it's becoming more and more god related for them. for us? we don't matter anymore, suddenly the world has forgotten our problems and decided that the arab oil is much more important these days.

  58. Randy


    Yes, I mean, I am very anti-religion and anti-racist.

    That means, as the Great Jewish people are so entangled with race and their religion and customs (which I greatly respect); I can not, in all good conscience (sp?), reject them as I do other religions and gods.

    In other words, religion is a choice, you can change your mind about that, race is NOT a choice, it would be anti-human to reject them.

    Plus, it is easy to be an illiterate islamo-christian or any other religion, but it is very hard to be an illiterate Jew.

    I mean, you have to learn to read an entire book and recite it to become a man or woman (bat-mitzva), and they praise study and law and math and science and debate... etc.

    I admire that.

    But, you know, no thanks for that whole "jesus' thing, that just hurt us all!

    ('course many of you tried to warn us!)

  59. Randy

    Well, I am anti-human, actually, but hey, I'll hang with you guys until we all die off, I mean... what am I gonna do? Go live with wolves?

    They'd eat-up my skinny, Irish a@@ as soon as look at me...


  60. Waz

    I wonder how many Americans would just 'move aside' and 'move on' to let 7 million Jews move into their homes and take over their land? But I guess those nice Americans or Brits would just say 'Oh, it's all yours, we've been looking after the place for 200 years. Thank goodness you have come back to claim what is rightfully yours.'

    The fact is no one would hand over their home or land to anyone making such a claim as 'It is our promised land so you must leave, or we will have to force you out!' I can guarantee all of the people would fight back for everything they own.

    It is all very well for people to have sympathy for Jews, but what about the people they are killing, robbing,humiliating and declaring terrorists?

    So Israeli soldiers are kind and treat humans well? Well then why do they kill, gun down, murder and drive over their graves in pure hatred? I knwo people who go to Israel and I know how the Israeli soldiers (US) lookalike and clad and euipped soliders I mean, look down at Arabs and Christians, especially Muslims. The Torah of today written by Jews, not God is the most racist book on the planet! We knwo what Jews think of non-Jews, and we know the Israeli policy is to treat Arabs and non-Jews like scum, as they are not Gods' chosen people but sub-human, expendable.

    It's all very nice to talk in your fairy make believe world of Jews being nice, but the fact is the Israeli government is out to wipe the Arabs of the Isreali map.

    Israel backed by the US doesn't give a damn about the UN, or any other organisation and it will do what it like and then cry out 'please, please wea re just defending our land, and we have suffered so much in the past.' The sympathy for Israel is running out, they have caused nothing but trouble in the middle east and blame the Arabs, well soon the world and the UN will get tough and Israel will have no choice but to end it's ghetto plans for the Arab Muslims and it's war on Islam.

    I am not alone in this argument, just look at how many Jews who are not zionist speak out against Israeli policy and it's hatred of Muslims.

    To all Jews I say speak up against what your government is doing. A new apartheid is being created whoch will lead to more war.


  61. israeli

    the **** means the opposite of smart, i didn't curse.

  62. israeli

    you wanted legal?
    i'll give you legal.
    the resolution of the UN to divide the british mandate between the jews and the arabs.
    the jews accepted and the arabs declared war.
    somehow this resolution didn't find it's place in your comment.

    the real fact is that israel was willing than and still is until this day to promote the idea of a palestinian state (not even one prime minister was against it the last 18 years ever since the idea of jordan taking over was shut down by the Jordanians and the current prime minister included).

    another fact is that the refugees will all be able to come to the new born palestinian state and get compensations even though the jews that were kicked out of arab countries won't get any.

    i'm the only one here defending israel because israelis don't know this site.. and there is no pro israel propaganda (i know you will say there is but there isn't, there are almost no sites, no demonstrations..nothing) it's just that the arab propaganda is so massive that i understand why all the brainwashed people here are "fighting for the palestinians" but you see a distorted reality in which there is only a mix of facts without any motives.
    that's like telling you- this guy killed that guy, he should go to prison. and you will just send him to prison without checking if the one that killed defended himself from being killed.
    another explanation for why pro israel people don't comment here is that it doesn't matter what i say. i answer to each and every one of your claims yet you don't seem to bother yourself with replying to anything i say accept empty shells of irrelevant things.
    if we are fighting someone who doesn't give a flying ... about the UN why should we be any different? we are different because we have conscious, and we act by it. i invite you to come and learn from us.
    i want to take this opportunity to invite you to respond on the UN resolution i mentioned here.
    i bet i'll have silence as a response..

    i know i'm just waisting my time on you and the others, i just wanted you all to know that we'll never give up and we'll fight for real justice and real peace, not the muslim world kind of peace in our neighborhood and soon in Europe.

  63. Waz

    Israeli: Hamas hiding behind Palastinian civilians? That is such a typical 'Zionist media controlled' remark. How about Hamas having to hide yes, while Israeli soldiers backed by the US wearing full combat gear and equipped with weapons that would shame a green beret at war! Oh yes, they 'hide' from your weapon which can blow up an entire family home, but hey as long as you smoke them terrorists out it's o.k becasue your backed by the US and you are a Jew.

    20 million a year in funding from the US alone, and you still complain that these 'bad Arabs' you talk about are stopping youhaving your state. There was no trouble in the Middle East until Israel was formed. I am not against Jews having homes and a place to live, but to kill others for it is dispicable.

    You are not learned in your own Torah, otherwise you would have known the racism that has been written by men and passed off as scripture. See below:

    "The modern Jew is the product of the Talmud..."
    - "Babylonian Talmud", published by the Boston Talmud Society, p. XII

    The Jews refer to the remainder of Earths inhabitants, the non-Jewish peoples, as "Gentiles", "Goyim".

    Let's see what the Jewish Talmud teaches the Jews concerning the non-Jewish majority, i.e. those who are not part of Jahve's "Chosen People":

    "The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts."

    - Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b

    "The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture teaches to honor the the dog more than the non-Jew."

    - Ereget Raschi Erod. 22 30

    "Even though God created the non-Jew they are still animals in human form. It is not becoming for a Jew to be served by an animal. Therfore he will be served by animals in human form."

    - Midrasch Talpioth, p. 255, Warsaw 1855

    "A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant animal."

    - Coschen hamischpat 405

    "The souls of non-Jews come from impure sprits and are called pigs."

    - Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b

    "Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew like a monkey to a human."

    - Schene luchoth haberith, p. 250 b

    "If you eat with a Gentile, it is the same as eating with a dog."

    - Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b

    "If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss', just as if one of his oxen or asses had died"."

    - Jore dea 377, 1

    "Sexual intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between animals."

    - Talmud Sanhedrin 74b

    "It is permitted to take the body and the life of a Gentile."

    - Sepher ikkarim III c 25

    "It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah."

    - Coschen hamischpat 425 Hagah 425. 5

    "A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands."

    - Talmud, Abodah Zara, 4b

    "Every Jew, who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God."

    - Talmud: Bammidber raba c 21 & Jalkut 772

    The Jewsish people were persecuted for 200 years in Europe and they were given sanctuary by the Muslims. Now the Jews have become a force of corruption and fight these very Muslims for their home and land. Why didn't Europe invite you all back to your former homes? I will tell you why, because you Jews said 'No, we want what is our by divine decree, Israel is our promised land.' Well if only all of us could play that one, we would all be tracing back our history and claiming 'promised land' for each and everyone. There is land gained, and land won, you took the land by force, and they will take it back by force, that is called fighting for what is rightfully your property and no 'chosen people' or 'promised land' story will ever change that.

    So who is really for peace?

    You don't need to defend your faith, it speaks for itself. God will judge you and all of mankind with justice.

  64. israeli

    were the hell did those talmud qoutes came from?
    im jewish and i never opened the talmud.
    you know why?
    because in the talmud they prove things like you do.
    my friend, there are 2 possibilities:
    a. you are getting paid to comment here
    b. you are a muslim arab, which is ok by me, but at least have the decency to say it instead of trying to act objective.
    there's a third possibility- that you just don't seem to understand anything the reality has to offer and therefore try to dig irrelevant archives.
    anyway this is going nowhere. you are not gonna prove anything by the talmud, or by anything else, and i don't have the answers only because it's so irrelevant that i'm not gonna waist my time looking at those things.
    and we don't get 20 million we get 1 billion, so does egypt, the palestinians are getting much larger amounts of money from iran, Syria, saudi arabia and others... believe me we could live without it. we have a great economy which is a great example of how well the palestinians could do if they left terror and chose to cooperate with us.
    by the way i just remembered you still owe me a few relevant answers. like what are the similarities between israel and the apartheid in south africa.. i waited all day for your answer and to my huge disappointment you gave me your version of judos killed jesus instead.

  65. Moey

    How is the quotes in talmud irrelevant? It's the book that lives in the heart of every jewish ideology, you are a jew and the talmud is your book, so you surely must be aware of the hatred expressed in it.

    "anyway this is going nowhere. you are not gonna prove anything by the talmud, or by anything else, and i don’t have the answers only because it’s so irrelevant that i’m not gonna waist my time looking at those things."
    Your response clearly indicates that you are overwhelming by the truth and arn't willing to face up to it, so you try to discredit the valid issues that are raised here. How can you try to prove something without bothering to read any of your own sources?

    "the resolution of the UN to divide the british mandate between the jews and the arabs."

    If you would like to raise a legal issue can you atleast provide the number or even source of the resolution as I have provided?

    "the jews accepted and the arabs declared war." this is a common sense scenario, how can you invade a country and declare it your own and expect the inhabitants of that country to welcome you? If someone was to come and invade a country and call it their own "promised land" I can assure you that anyone in Palestinians position would do the same. Majority of the Palestinians didnt even have any weapons they used stones to defend themselves.

    "another fact is that the refugees will all be able to come to the new born palestinian state and get compensations even though the jews that were kicked out of arab countries won't get any." Your country is killing Palestinians to this day, their homes are being bulldozed to make way for the expansion of the Israeli state, how on earth then do you claim the refugees will receive compensation if it was even possible for them to come back? I'll tell you the only compensation they will receive is a bullet in the head!

    "there is no pro israel propaganda, there are almost no sites, no demonstrations..nothing it's just that the arab propaganda is so massive that i understand why all the brainwashed people here are fighting for the palestinians"

    Do you have an idea who even controls the U.S and western media? I will tell you JEWS not arabs

    here is a list of just several jewish men that control major Hollywood studios and mainstream news corporations.

    Gerald Levin, CEO and Director of AOL Time Warner

    Michael Eisner, Chairman and CEO of the Walt Disney Company

    Edgar Bronfman, Sr., Chairman of Seagram Company Ltd

    Edgar Bronfman, Jr, President and CEO of Seagram Company Ltd and head of Universal Studios

    Sumner Redstone, Chairman and CEO of Viacom, Inc

    Dennis Dammerman, Vice Chairman of General Electric

    Peter Chernin, President and Co-COO of News Corporation Limited

    Joe Roth - Disney Pictures, Touchstone

    Weinstein Brothers - Miramax

    Leonard Goldenson - ABC

    Victor Neufeld - 20/20 Exec. Producer

    Paul Friedman - World News Tonight Executive Producer
    AOL/Time Warner

    Gerald Levin - AOL/Time Warner, Time, Sports Illustrated, HBO, CNN,

    Danny Goldberg - Warner Bros. Records

    Stuart Hersch - Warner Video

    Rich Kaplan - CNN

    Sumner Redstone (Murray Rothstein) - CBS, Viacom, Blockbuster, Prentice
    Hall, Simon & Schuster Publishers, Pocket, Showtime, MTV, Nickelodeon
    TV and radio companies

    Sherry Lansing - Paramount productions

    Jon Dolgen - Paramount Studios

    Al Berman - CBS Morning

    Rupert Murdoch - News Corp. Fox

    Peter Chernin - Fox TV, 20th Century Fox, NY Post

    Laura Ziskin - Fox 2000

    Peter Roth - Fox Entertainment

    Tom Rothman- 20th Century Fox Studios

    Those Jewish men collectively control ABC, NBC, CBS, the Turner Broadcasting System, CNN, MTV, Universal Studios, MCA Records, Geffen Records, DGC Records, GRP Records, Rising Tide Records, Curb/Universal Records, and Interscope Records.

    Did I forget to mention a Palestinian or Arab that controls such a large number of mass media companies? Jews are busy controlling these larger more favorable mass brainwashing tools, so obviously they don't need to come and brainwash people on sites like these when they can brainwash people unconsciously without as much effort.

    Jews control 3 quarters of the world world, from politics, banking, educational organisations to our media corporations.
    They shape and censor all that they don't want the public to see. No wonder we are always shown a jewish soldier getting killed but never shown thousands of Palestinian people that get captured, tortured and killed or the homeless ones who have been left out on the street because they are counted as "animals".

    I think the point is clear here...

  66. israeli

    "you are a jew and the talmud is your book"
    you are a Christian therefore your book sad that you need to get out on a crusade.
    now you know how you sound.
    "If you would like to raise a legal issue can you atleast provide the number or even source of the resolution as I have provided?"
    sorry i haven't got your "everything there is against israel" sites to look for things like that.. but if you don't know about that decision the conversation is really not in a very high standard..
    about the refugees there are plenty of documentation in hebrew but nothing i could find in english. anyways everything is considered a part of negotiations in which every side wants the best starting conditions. to remind you we did the same with Egypt, we built settlements in the occupied territory and gave it back for peace, that's our goal in here as well.
    as you sad not all jews support israel, anyway if there is a jew it doesn't mean that the TV station is pro israeli, just like if there is an arab it doesn't mean it will be pro arab, that's the 21st century antisemitism speaking in your voice.
    your point is far from clear because you don't know the first thing about this conflict. you just know how to bash israel which isn't so hard considering the massive online infrastructure.

  67. israeli

    from Wikipedia "palestine":
    On 29 November 1947, the United Nations General Assembly voted 33 to 13 with 10 abstentions, in favour of a plan to partition the territory into separate Jewish and Arab states, under economic union, with the Greater Jerusalem area (encompassing Bethlehem) coming under international control. Zionist leaders (including the Jewish Agency), accepted the plan, while Palestinian Arab leaders rejected it and all independent Muslim and Arab states voted against it.[182][183][184] Almost immediately, sectarian violence erupted and spread, killing hundreds of Arabs, Jews and British over the ensuing months.
    The rapid evolution of events precipitated into a Civil War. Arab volunteers of the Arab Liberation Army entered Palestine to fight with the Palestinians, but the April-May offensive of Yishuv forces crushed the Arabs and Arab Palestinian society collapsed. Some 300,000 to 350,000 Palestinians caught up in the turmoil fled or were driven from their homes.

  68. Waz

    Israeli: Say and post all you wish, the fact is you are the occupiers and the aggressors and that will never change until you give back Palastine to the people you kicked out and now oppress.

    Long live the support for peace and a Palastine free of Israeli occupation. The only way forward is for Jews to live side by side with Palastine as their 'host country' not their country 'being Palastine.'

  69. israeli

    also see "Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim lands" in Wikipedia.

  70. Waz

    Israeli:Exodus, your choice, Muslim land occupied rightfully by MuslimS, Arab lands there own land. I fail to see your point and how this has to do with the illegal Israeli occupation of Palastine?

    I don't see the point in discussing this further.

    Gooodbye and thank you for your time.

  71. israeli

    the point of the jewish exodus is to show that arab countries kicked out jews around the same time that arabs were kicked\left from israel (don't want to get into this discussion). so i'll say it's about fair.
    as for living next to a palestinian state: i join you with the wishes.
    as for living inside a palestinian state: over my dead body.
    peace to all.
    take care.

  72. israeli

    ok, the explanations:
    discriminatory marriage law- in israel marriage is considered a religious act, therefore you can get married only within your own religious, it doesn't bother the arabs mostly because they wouldn't marry jews anyway muslims marry muslims. im against this law because many people who are not jewish or jewish by father only couldn't enjoy a proper wedding. but i don't see how it may concern arabs.

    the West Bank barrier- prior to the barrier there was a huge amount of suicide bombers, like todays iraq. we lived in fear and cried out for something to defend us. you may say the location is sometimes beyond israels boundaries, i agree, and i think it was a huge mistake. in any case if there will be an agreement this will be fixed. altogether it saved hundreds of israeli lives and taken non from the palestinians.

    use of Palestinians as cheap hard labour- an outcome of them not having any financial or other institutions prior to 1967, they were looking for a job because they were living in poverty BEFORE we occupied the the territories, israeli employers jumped on the opportunity, the government legislated that any foreign worker including them is entitled to the same minimum wage and social conditions as israeli employees.

    Palestinian West Bank enclaves- after 1967 no one thought of the possibility of a palestinian state, simply because the arabs did not embrace the idea of a jewish state next to them, so the west bank just became israeli territory in which we can settle. during the 1980's and 1990's as the palestinians started to accept the 2 state idea, the settlements became a dispute inside israel. some say it's a better starting point for negotiations and means of pressure on the palestinians to strive for an agreement, some say it's a waist of money, a small minority is still sure that we will control everything and have our biblical israel (a guess those are the people you referred to with your talmud quotes) which are about 5%-10% of the jewish population (thats why it was so irrelevant). anyways as you can see when the terms are right for negotiations we are not building anymore (like now) because it's far from being a priority over peace.

    inequities in infrastructure- the palestinians are supposed to build their own infrastructure, and they do it slowly... that's because they collect their own taxes therefore it's not our job to build for them, if they give us the money we will but i dout if they would, same goes for the separate roads arrgument, as well as security reasons (you would be surprised of the number of shooting incidents in roads for both peoples).

    legal rights- it had taken a down turn during the years of intifada (the first) and later along with the terrorist attacks, our security comes before their rights, sorry.

    access to land and resources between Palestinians and Israeli residents in the Israeli-occupied territories resembles some aspects of the South African apartheid regime- we give them the resources as part of agreements, electricity, water, and whatever they need, it saves them a lot of money at the moment, i can't wait for them to become independent and stop this unfair deal.

    Some commantators extend the analogy, or accusation, to include Arab citizens of Israel- they have the exact same law as the jews, the ones in the cities have the same living conditions and jobs as the jews, the ones in the villages are not paying their municipal taxes and the municipalities are corrupt and don't clean them up or building their infrastructure, there's an attempt to change that and give them a big boost forward. they also face the same problem as the orthodox jews, to much children and the inability to give them education and a better life.

    2,000 Palestinian refugees were massacred with active Israeli assistance- the israeli army is blame for standing asside, watching the massacre and doing nothing, not for taking part in it, they massacred each other. happened much before and after.

    How do you still make the claim that God has promised you this land- did i? i must have missed it. i'll write it again because you fail to let this subject go. i'm not religious and i am in a huge doubt if there is a god. i consider orthodox Jews just as ignorant as extreme Muslims or Christians for that matter.

  73. bored

    Again why is the comments page filled with arguments rather than an opinion on the documentary. Get a life or a twitter page and do your bickering there.

  74. Waz

    bored: This is a documentary site, where people watch documenataries and are argue and debate.The whole point of a good documentary is to allow viewers to discuss and argue their point in a good manner. If you do not like the views or opinions you can just watch the interesting documentaries and ignore the discussions or comments. I have always enjoyed these sites as you get to know many people with differing view, and to know that they exhist.


  75. Roy

    Hi everybody.

    I have to say that I don't have an opinion on the matter of the Israelis - Palestinians, because although I know the plenty of facts about the history of the conflict, from what I understand it is so complicated out there so I don’t think you can have an educated opinion of it without really researching deep into the subject, best from impartial sources.
    But I did read the debate which ensued here between Israeli and…. Well, almost everybody here, particularly Waz and Moey, and I do have an opinion on the debate at hand.
    On the one hand you have the user Israeli, which is clearly proud of his country and believes in its merits but on the other hand he tries to be balanced as possible, often presenting the "other side" narrative and sometimes even acknowledges it, dealing in a respectable manner with the claims thrown on him by the other users and, most of the time using facts which are verifiable by a simple research from a reliable source.
    On the other hand you have the users Waz and Moey, and some other users also, and they are a bit, shall we say, overzealous about their narrative without, even once, acknowledging the possibility of other opinions being right but their own. They throw claims and "facts" into the debate which, again, by simple research from a reliable source, can be branded as just untrue or skewed enormously. They often exhibit blatant lack of knowledge about this subject they argue about and using ideas taken from known Anti-Semites ( I'm not claiming the users posted here are Anti-Semites, but that they are using ideals which are verifiably from Anti-Semites origins, probably not wittingly …)
    And I'll give some examples:
    Waz brings racist quotes from the Talmud, as to say that all or most Jewish use the literate Talmud as a moral guideline. I really don’t know if those quotes are true, but some of them are probably are, after all the Talmud was written centuries ago. Well, there are plenty of racist and non liberal views in Christianity and Islam, but we don’t attribute these views with their believers. Also, simple research will show that the majority of the Israeli jewish population is secular and even the Zionist movement was secular to an extreme. So what is the relevance to the Talmud, which is a religious book? Also, Waz states as a fact, time after time, that Israel drove out the Palestinians from their homes, exploited them and was the aggressor the time the state formed. Well, again with a simple research, you will learn that the Zionist movement, in the 20's-30's, believed in peaceful co-existence. They bought the lands they settled on, or settled in harsh uninhibited lands. In the heart of Zionism was the self labor concept. They didn’t even have a fighting force that period. After continuing attacks on the Jewish population they formed a fighting force which was used for defense propose only. Only after the violence continued for many years they started building an active fighting force. Hardly the heartless exploiting aggressors. And for conclusion, Waz doesn’t even know the U.N. resolution to split Palestine between the jews and the palastinians, which is one of the most important events happened through this conflict. All of this tells me that Waz doesn’t know nearly enough about the conflict to have such an un compromising opinion about it, or any opinion for that matter, he is narrow-minded, misinformed and doesn’t really listen to the other side.
    Most of the other users attacking Israel here are, more or less, the same as Waz. The ideals and opinion Moey and Indian present are a mirror copy ideals taken straight out of muslim anti-Semite propaganda. Hardy gives a racist quote from an Israeli statesman, Menahem Begin, but again simple research shows it's a KNOWN misquote which is attributed to someone else entirely.
    Actually, all I can say is congrats to the user Israeli for standing against a clearly brain washed mob (and maybe, just a little maybe, anti-Semite) which uses unfair and unintelligent rhetoric and logic, without stooping to their level.

  76. israeli

    well, Ron, all i can say is thank you very much for your comment here.
    before that i thought i was waisting my time... all i wanted to do here is to give people the real story. my intention was not to justify everything Israel does or to say it is faultless.
    my real intention here was to say: look both ways before you make your judgment. don't try to simplify things by using one side's information and ignoring the other.

  77. John The English Bat

    This documentary is bias it tries so hard to make it look and sound like its impartial. The language used to describe the Muslims are (Islaimist, Jihadist , Radicals etc) and portrays the British as some sort of savors for the people they killed to rile and steal. In a nutshell this BBC (British Bullsh*t Carp) Garbage.

    To make this a fair for all side describe Christian as terrorist, Evangelist and murderers. Oh yeah in the first part you said the Muslim murdered the British but when you described the killing of Muslim and Hindus you described it as a killing (Are you trying to say the British killing is Just?).

  78. Jibran

    @israeli: If you think that then you need to read the books. You can't explain each and every marginal treatment the arabs receive within Israel to "municipal" and "language" problems. That is simply too convenient. What's wrong is wrong. Period

  79. Jibran

    @israeli: I see that you're trying your utmost to provide both sides because you feel only one side's story is being listened to which is providing sympathy for the Palestinians. But man look at the ground facts, Israel is a nation and a very powerful country with a media apparatus, Palestinians aren't. One side can do what it wants because it has the means to do so being light-years ahead, the other does not. That does lead to questions, that does lead to research and the work of researchers within Israel and commentators does need to be reviewed and they dont present a very pretty picture. Do read the books I mentioned.

  80. israeli

    i don't need those books.
    i'm studied economics and read a lot of Arabic unbiased (and biased) research.
    my conclusions are not a result of ignorance but a deep research in the field on a daily basis.
    the results are that Israel wasn't to kind on it's Arab citizens but it was far from holding them back. the main thing holding them back is their tradition.
    i don't have any problem with their tradition, all i'm saying is that for example if you live in a place where the business language is English and your English level is poor you study English. the same with goes for Hebrew.
    if you don't allow your wife to go out of the kitchen to get a job don't act surprised when your family income monthly is only half of the ones that have a working wife.
    on the same basis you can "look at the facts" and say the orthodox Jews are discriminated in israel. they are in the same situation as the Arabs since the men study the Torah instead of going out to work.
    "looking at the facts" as you describe it destroys 300 years of academic advancement, such academy is to be found in Israel and it tries to deal with social and governmental problems. people like you destroy it with "looking at facts" which doesn't tell anything about the cause of a phenomenon.
    what makes us different from 5 year olds is our ability to check the real cause of the problems and not just looking at the numbers like you and your comrades here.

  81. israeli

    would you mind sharing some wisdoms?
    there are many books and little time..(:

  82. Valhalla

    The arrogance of the British. Typical. I'm glad they pay the price today for all the f**kups they caused throughout the world ever since they formed their empire. They utterly played God everywhere they went and the reason middle east is what it is today (which is messed up and divided) is because of them. I hope to live and see the day when Britain is no longer populated in majority by Brits, but by emigrants from all the nations they ever colonized. Payback is a b***h. I also hope the Indians today would stop kissing their butts, considering all they did to that country. Have some dignity people.

  83. me

    Ive been reading the comments by Indian and the other Israel haters that see themselves as so called liberals and supporters of freedom fighters.

    The arguments in their "educated" responses amazed me. So I will try to touch some of them:

    A. No one have any right (let alone an inherit right) on any place of the globe. The fact is that we are here for 70 years on average then we turn to dust.

    B. Why does it matter if the Jews were expelled 2000 years ago and the Palestinians were expelled 60 years ago?! If your argument is that 60 years means you have a valid claim on the land and lets say 500 years means your claim loses it's validity, then all the Israelis have to do is wait for a couple of more years.
    In other words time in itself doesn't hold any special moral merits. To emphasize that we just need to think of a scenario in which people's average life span was of I dunno let's say 500 years.

    C1. The Arabs are a very successful tribe around the parts of the mid east. As we all know the tribe origanted in the Arab peninsula (modern day Saudi-Arabia and Yemen) and have managed to conquer the entire mid east region and north Africa. By doing so they of course deprived all the "native" people of their lands - like the Berbers of north africa, the Assyrians of Iraq or the Kupts of Egypt - and either exterminated them or turned them into second class citizens in countries where it's hard enough to be a first class citizen.

    C2. Every country (piece of land really) on this plant "belonged" to numerous "tribes" over the course of time and will switch many hands and names before "our" sun will explode. Through out the course of time every nation that was ever created was created on the ruin of something else.
    One scenario is that a tribe is driven by another tribe to a different territory.

    And another scenario is what happened to the Dacians for example. Hint that area is called Romania today and it's not because of the Dacians great love for Rome.

    C3. Our sad reality is that we like to include our selfs in certain groups and exclude our selfs from other groups. that leads to my god is better than your god and ultimately to my set of values are better than your set of values and to let's create a state with a flag and an anthem and battle other states through various means.

    D. During WWII more than 10 million Germans (for example) were displaced. 10 million over 70 years can easily make 40 million today. Why aren't they allowed back to their old territories mostly in what's todays Poland?!

    E. In 1948 a U.N resolution divided what then was called Palestine into 2 states. The Palestinians didn't agree to that resolution and aided by other Arabs invaded the territory thinking the might of 4 countries along with aid from others will show those pesky U.N folks what they think about them and their resolutions. As we all know for these and other reasons the invasion has failed and the rest is history.

    Now after losing that war (and several other wars) all of a sudden U.N resolutions are good and the Palestinians are the great victims.

    Hey when the Germans lost their domination war they didn't make a beep about those 10 millions displaced Germans. Just like I don't ask the casino for my money back when I lose on a gamble.

    Well Maybe the Palestinians didn't really loose that war as badly as they would like us to believe. I mean they do belong to a greater Arab nation which has much much much more land people and money than the Israelis will ever have.
    And to make that point clear I'll give an example in the 1948 the Jordanians conquered the west bank and just annexed it to Jordan rather then calling it Palestine, I mean why would they?!
    In fact during WWI the Brits and the Arabs of Syria, Trans Jordan, Lebanon and Palestine agreed to form on this entire area one country called greater Syria ruled by an arab Sheik. So where is this Palestine as a different state is coming from all of a sudden?!

    It's coming from the 1948 and 1967 looses, but it doesn't mean that the Palestinians are any less Arabs than the Jordanians or the Syrians. And therefore it means that in fact the Arab world in particular and the Muslim world in general (1.6 billion people) have quite a lot more power and influence than the Israelis or the Jews will ever have.

    In other words the Israelis can shout it's daylight until their lungs will burst and all the Muslim have to do to make that shout silent is merely whisper it's night.
    Numbers are everything and truth/lie/justice is subjective.

    F. For the historical record and that record alone: Palestine is the name the Romans gave the area that was called Judaea. It was changed to Palestine by the romans after the last great Jewish/Hebrew revolt against them as a punishment. The Palestinians in the Jewish bible (what we call today the old testament)were people who came from the Greek area of the Mediterranean fought the Hebrews and conquered large parts of the coastal area of then Israel.
    needless to say that there's no connection between those "old Greeks" and todays Palestinians which are in fact Arabs.

    All that being said countries are foolish, your god doesn't exist Scotland doesn't belong to Scottish people just because their fathers conquered it from someone else. And in fact it doesn't belong to so called Scottish people for any other reason either.
    I hope a day will come when we are all equal in our rights, no one minds his neighbors business or way of life as long as that neighbor doesn't hurt anyone or preach for that and we can all live where ever we want on this globe. Unfortunately if such a day ever comes I won't be here to witness it.

  84. bgltiger

    The British use the simple Machaviallian principle of divide and conquer. They have done this with India, Israel, Ireland and so on... It is the British who propogate the hate and religious division that is so prevalent in the past and today. Karma is a b--tch and gthe British will get theirs one day!!

  85. louiseiiid

    'THE British', THE Jews, THE Arabs.

    Come on people, that's all so devisive. We are all just humans, God probably doesn't even exist (in the way religion personifies 'him').

    Could we all just stop and realise that and stop teaching our children to fight the wars of our grandfathers.

    If this is not the age of co-operation, then it really will be the end.

    On the other hand - thanks to these documentaries and not my British education, I now have some idea what's going on in the world.

  86. israeli2

    i am an atheist israeli and in the end it all comes to the bottom line of kill or get killed esspecialy in middle east the arabs did not agree to the solution of 2 states for to nations that was provided by the british in 1948 and they had much more territory in that paper while we had only the coast strip to live in and we agreed in hope of living in peace, instead they decided to attack and drive us to the sea as the said so proudly .... but they lost despite of having ten times more people than us and now they cry like babies and suicide with bombs on women and children like chicken shit.

    but the thing that bring be comfort is that even the big smart moral europeans starts to understand that those stupid deeply religiously barbarian arabs who are flooding them in france, england, holand ,germany... and behaving like animals when they should behave like guests in a foreign country are the big problem ,one day they'll even claim paris as a muslim city.... and than we will watch and see if you handle them as gently as we do ... i think u will simply give up cause you the europeans are not the same strong people u use to be 50 years ago maybe you are too tired and spoiled while the arabs are keep gathering strength in numbers on your own soil!!

    thank god we have more than 200 nukes this time the only way of kicking the jews out of their homeland and murdering them in camps like auschwitz and birkenau is ending the world as we know it!!!

  87. israeli3

    This is for israeli2: Im an atheist israeli and you are a disgrace to our country..

  88. israeli2

    israeli3 the only reason you can afford your high moral compass is because you let others do the dirty job for you all those years. dont forget that when you go to sleep safe in your worm bed!!!

  89. israeli3

    israeli2: I know excatly your type.. you attack before you have the slightest clue who you are talking to, and in the proccess reveal your own ignorance.
    well.. I dont have high moral views and I probablly have very simillar views as you do in regards to many issues, I served, and still srving, in golani and meny of my familly lives in ariel. so no.. I dont let anyone do my dirty work for me.
    When I said you are a disgrace its becouse you are a hooligan. you think force is the answer to everything, you speak like an uneducated redneck (and I dont think its becouse your english is croocked.. in hebrew it would have sounded just as bad), you are small minded, you think your view is the ultimate one and everyone who dont agree with you is either stupied or a cowerd. you belittle everyone who dont adhere to your point of view.
    It doesnt matter what is your political view, race, color, religion or gender - a hooligan is a hooligan in every language.

  90. israeli

    3 Israelis, 4 opinions..(:

  91. Harold

    Interesting video on Indian uprising but definitely slanted and some conclusions and assumptions are very questionable. It's from what has been called today a "liberal self-loathing" bias. It implies that Islamic violence is just a reaction to British Imperialism. It needs to be seen in the wider historical context.

    Islam from the time of the Prophet in Medina has been itself an aggressive imperialistic doctrine. Millions died in India from the Muslim invasions. What Britain did was paltry in comparison.

  92. intelligent isreali


    You're so brainwashed its sad. Have you noticed that an Arab or Muslim is almost never seen defending your Zionist state. Probably not because you choose not to see what is in front of you. There are many Jews and Israeli's negating the Zionist rule and the oppression of the state of Israel, but there are virtually no Arabs supporting Israel. That is because informed and researched individuals who have experience with both sides come to understand the sins Israel is committing against humanity and their fellow Palestinians. People like "Israeli" are to absorbed in the events to look at them without emotion and think about what is moral for humanity. This is what we call academic reasoning or "intelligent decision making", Instead they preach the same arguments they have heard repeatedly against the same counter-arguments they are used to hearing.

    Isreali, why are no Arabs supporting your views or beliefs...because they are "unjust" and "evil\wrong". Thankfully many Jews, Christians, and Muslims alike, are realizing the war crimes being committed by Jews in Israel. These crimes are committed by the common soldier (who may hide under the guise of orders from his superiors), Israeli settlers who murder and harass Palestinians, or the political Zionist brass which aids in the fueling of hate through religious rhetoric.
    Bottom line: Israeli individuals who: submit to conscription, aid in settling palestinian land, or support the zionist state, are actively helping Jews oppress and murder an entire ethnic society.

    If you do not believe this, consider the effects of the Israeli occupation on its soldiers. Many serve involuntarily at a young age. They are ordered to commit brutal acts against humanity as any soldier is. Some are not morally affected because they can place their crimes with reasoning. They say, they were serving their country, they were serving god, they were ordered to do so. But many who find flaws in this psychological phenomenon are deeply affected. Beating woman and children, cleaning up the body parts of civilians, gruesome interrogation techniques, or the socially accepted murder of Palestinians, have damaging affects on the thousands of soldiers enduring such tasks.

    Israel will survive as long as it stays off the radar of the international community. But once media attention turns on the atrocities being committed under the guise of occupation, Israel will be nuked faster than you can say Yarmulke.

  93. intelligent isreali

    figuratively speaking of course

  94. Zionists demise

    In Liberia slaves returned from America after being freed. Upon their arrival back home they turned on their fellow Africans and enslaved them. Their feelings of entitlement allowed their moral collapse.

    The Jews have felt pain, so they are entitled to teach the Palestinians pain. They will not let themselves be hurt again. This emotional veil is a very dangerous phenomenon in human existance.

    Some psychologists are beginning in-field study programs on Zionist campuses which will provide insight into the complex mind of the "entitled purpotrator" and very similar "justified purpotrator" with reference to everyday life and the acts and atrocities committed by war criminals.

  95. nick names r easy

    To the so called 'intelligent isreali' you wrote:

    "You’re so brainwashed its sad. Have you noticed that an Arab or Muslim is almost never seen defending your Zionist state. Probably not because you choose not to see what is in front of you. There are many Jews and Israeli’s negating the Zionist rule and the oppression of the state of Israel, but there are virtually no Arabs supporting Israel."

    Actually this proves that the Israelis are not brainwashed and have a society with free speech and the Muslims are brain washed.

    Why you ask?! Well when free speech is present you'll find more than one opinion for any subject.

    Something tell's me you're an Israeli as much as I'm a goat

  96. israeli

    @"intelligent isreali"
    your an insult to this discussion. typical Arab propagandist- use initial lies to create a different set of mind in your readers and then just shoot some more lies to close the deal.
    my guess is that the readers hear are much more intelligent than you and can see through your initial lie, even only do to the last words "Israel will be nuked faster than you can say Yarmulke."
    through your comment i can see that your not familiar with anything but Arab propaganda. the reality is that everything you said to the smallest detail is wrong.
    first of all there are Arabs in the israeli army and there would have been a lot more if their leadership would allow them to. i'm aware of the fact that most israeli Arabs take the Palestinian side in the conflict, but that's only natural because basically they are the same people. that's like i'll be more worried about Jews being harassed somewhere then others.
    if you had known what our political sphere looks like,you wouldn't have wrote the argument about hate and religious
    rhetoric. our political sphere is so diverse you can hardly say anything about it as a whole. mind you, the Arab parties are about 10% of our parliament, there is a party which includes both Arabs and Jews, there is a left wing, more left wing, "center" party, right wing parties, religious party that only cares about getting more money to the orthodox Jews and would sit in any government, the green party, the smoke weed party and a few years ago even the senior party made an entrance.
    soldiers in our army have the right to refuse an order if they think it's illegal "pkuda lo hukit baalil" and that includes shooting an unarmed person who is no threat to you. the Israeli soldiers, more than any army in the world, are being taught to be careful not hurting any civilian, AND THE ISRAELI ARMY IS THE MOST CAUTIOUS ARMY IN THE WORLD, the problem is the ones he fights that hide like cowards among their people, allowing them to get hurt instead.
    "intelligent isreali", no Israeli thinks like you.
    the reason is, you would be surprised, that almost every Israeli knows exactly what is going on inside his country and the Palestinian territories. each Israeli develops a different opinion about it, but the greatest thing about living here, rather than in a dictatorship like our neighbors, is that you have all the information. you can decide based on the real story.

  97. Egg 1st or Chicken ?

    I will watch the doc after this comment but for now I have this to add. Although I can take a guess.

    This indeed is a sensitive subject. Maybe today's most complexe.I Have a whole section in my private library, with arab, israeli, us, and european authors.

    Part of the problem (putting aside religious-strategic geopolitical reasons) is probably because we live in the past. By this in mean, "past actions and teachings, determine today's action/knowledge, and today's actions determine tomorrow action, and so on". So ,if u follow my reasoning, We-me-you-israli's-palestine take action because of what happened to them-us in the past.

    It's like a dog biting it's tail. A constant loop.

    For the Arabs, it is desperation, being helpless, seeing your family, brothers, etc being emprisonned, shot, robbed of land, and most important feeling caged, like animals, and watched over by guns, tanks, and checkpoints.

    For the Israeli's, it's settling down, having a zip code,a flag, etc, is crucial, being one of the most nomadic persecuted people in the history of mankind.

    I myself am an Arab, and so is my wife, who visited Palestine and Israel, 2 years ago, so that she could see for herself.
    Instead of just having the same feelings, that are propagated by both sides.
    She thought, if I truly care, I should see it for myself, talk to both sides, see how they live, make up her own mind.
    And may I say, she has never imagined it being so dramatic, and unhuman. People are not being treated as people. What is going on there, is a shame for all of mankind. Too many sad stories to post here.

    I don't blame all israeli's, just the zionist governments, who keep it as it is, slowly but surely nibbling land, backed by U.S. diplomacy. Using the anger generated by the occupation, as an excuse to dehumanize a whole population,thus making it acceptable.
    Some of them go as far as blowing a bus full of civilians=
    We will bomb some supposed headquarter( that is in reality a water distribution complexe) or bloc any incoming goods, like food, medecine, cement,etc on suspicion of weapon smuggling.

    I feel sorry, for regular jews and arabs who just wanna live in peace, in pursuit of happiness.

    If I, or anyone else, was to have experienced the atrocities of Sabra & Chatilla or Gaza bombings, in your own country-towns, anyone would probably support Hamas or "defending against the oppressor" organisations,(at first).

    It's the story of who threw the first rock-bullet-bomb-rocket-etc. What came first : egg or chicken.

    Hard to agree, but I hope today's Arab revolution (and especially Egypt's- for it's border with Israel) will unlock some issues. If there are free democratic elections, the "Muslim brothers" will probably win by a landslide.
    And that is a tough position for U.S administration. Which funds a big part of the egyptian army, to keep the Israeli's safe.
    Don't forget Arab countries like Morrocco welcomed and protected jews during the war, when all the european countries handed them over to the nazis, by trainloads.
    The lived in peace for years, and u can still find jewish neighborhoods in parts of Morocco.

  98. israeli

    i'm getting a bit tired of writing the same things again and again so i recommended you take a look at earlier comments..
    putting the discussion aside fir a minute, how many Jews did your wife talk to while being in Israel? and, what where their opinions?
    my best guess is that the ones she did talk to where on the left wing or more pro-Arab side of the conflict.
    will you shoot at someone because his government took your land? without knowing you i know you won't.
    the desperation of the Palestinian people doesn't bring anyone to commit suicide attack on civilians, it's the insane Muslim agenda and propaganda that brings them to that.
    if you think they leave in a prison you should ask them where they have leaved before they started the first intifada, it was the best times in their lives. if trying to look at the facts they should blame Hamas for the prison you're talking about.
    "and u can still find jewish neighborhoods in parts of Morocco."
    the only place you can find Jews and Arabs leaving in peace is inside Israel's borders. 20 Jews leaving in a god forsaken village somewhere in Morocco doesn't really indicate a remarkable co-existence.
    on this occasion i would like to announce a 1000000000000$ prize to the first Arab that admits there's something wrong with the fact that once a dictator goes in the Arab world the dark forces of Muslim brotherhood and their companions in other countries are the ones taking their place.
    something is wrong with you people and blaming Israel for everything isn't gonna change that. the Arab society must change from the inside by people who can see beyond the propaganda smoke screen, they need to see that Israel is not the problem but only a minor issue in a much bigger problem which is the Arab way of governing, education, doing business etc..
    once you figure that out you'll see that Israel will be more than happy to become the solution rather than the cause for your problems.

  99. Egg 1st or Chicken ?

    Wow , you truly believe what you are saying.
    Our opinions are too far apart, to have a serious "forget you're an arab or a jew for 5min" discussion.
    70 years of peaceful co-existance of arabs and jews, in arab cities, is not inspiring to you, worse you critise it; don't make me think you even want peace.

    Ok then, Arabs are the problem, and everybody (a large part of the rest of the world) else who questions Israels right take land and control an entire population, by any means necessary.
    Thank you for the gentle handling your army generously performs everytime someone leaves his village.You are doing us a favor, helping us, educating us, feeding us, bring us a nice modern society, at your service.
    Give me a break.

    And the dark forces of Muslims you imagined, are fueled by injustice.
    The elected muslims on the other hand, are more of the Chavez mentality.

    Treat them fairly, as equal human beings; different culures , yes, but human beings nontheless, that's all I ask.
    I admit they're are some loopholes in our belief system that don't help improving the situation, but they're are also a lot of educated free thinkers, who want a serious change. A break with the old outdated ways of governing.
    Leaders of opposition, are returning to help rebuild Arab countries, in a more civil way, and out with the archaic pseudo military dictatorships.

    Please send me more of your wisdom so I can inlighten my compratiotes of your teachings:

    "Brothers, WE are the problem, We should bow down and look for another place to live, the old owner has come back, and he has the largest nuclear arsenal the world posesses. So take your olive tree , hop on a camel, and start tent searching".

  100. Israeli3

    Hi @Egg 1st or Chicken
    I wont get into the specifics of the conflict, because, as you said yourself, it is far more complicated then a post in a documentary website can handle.
    But, although you seem to recognize its a very complicated situation, your view of it is very flat and superficial.
    You wrote numerous times in your posts about land grabbing by the "Zionist government" and atrocities. Well, until the 1948 war, Zionism didn't "grab" any land. they settled in Israel in a legitimate way. moreover, Zionism didn't even had a fighting force until it had to defend its settlements from Arab attacks. Zionism wasn't about grabbing land. until 1948 there wasn't an inch of Palestine grabbed by Zionism.
    But then was the war (or Nekba, if you like). and in the war, as in any war, the winner sized lands. some of it was for security reasons and some was for borders continuity. more then half of the Arabs who fled Palestine did so not because Zionists drove them out but because the pan Arab nations promised them they will return on the shoulders of the winning Arab armies (which, of course, did not happen).
    Yes, atrocities were being made, by both sides, as happens in wars, especially in those decades.
    All of this happened even before the territories as we know it today were conquered in the 1967 war.
    I do not agree with what @Israeli said in his last post, but if I try to understand what was his point, I think it was that the conflict is not today, and never was, about land. you said that:
    "if I, or anyone else, was to have experienced the atrocities of Sabra & Chatilla or Gaza bombings, in your own country-towns, anyone would probably support Hamas or 'defending against the oppressor' organisations".
    well... the support of Palestinian Arabs in opinions and agenda of attacking (or defending as they call it) of Jews and Zionism, started long before 1967 and long before Israel existed and any land was grabbed.
    what @Israeli was trying to relay to you (not so intelligently, I have to say) is that there is a very big problem with a people (I mean the Palestinians) which demands recognition and to be treated in a liberal way, but isn't willing to treat the other side in the same way. there is a problem with demanding Israel withdrawal from the territories and founding of a Palestinian state, but on the other hand unwilling and unable to promise Israel the end of the conflict.
    Lastly, there is a major problem with a people who, for all their different opinions, cant have self criticism when it comes to the way they themselves handle Israel. the way they nurture anti-Semitism in television (especially children TV), their ridiculous claim of "right of return" which is the first of its kind in humane history and so on and so on. when in a society there isn't any diverse discourse in matters which are clearly controversial in their nature, and there is only one voice, one agenda, one way of looking at things... this society has a problem. when there isn't anyone inside a society who can acknowledge their mistakes and wrongdoings, nothing will change in that society..
    I'm not saying every Palestinian needs to drop their current view of things and be pro Israeli, but I am saying, or asking, how could it be that there is virtually no one in Palestinian society which is like the far left in western society?

  101. sharon's conscience

    Israel will persist in its current path unless The Jews outside of Israel open their eyes to the costs. Jews outside of israel make up three quarters of the Jewish population and they are the reason it continues to function. Without them their U.S and international aid would falter. Other countries could finally place trade sanctions on Israel without the dangers of Jewish reactions. Politicians could proceed in a humane manner without being name called as “anti-semites”. AIPAC and all individuals involved would not allow this, for it would mean the end of their power and careers. Jews outside of Israel and Jews within Israel rely on eachother to maintain their status, but Jews outside of Israel could still function without Israel. The U.S administration values nations that follow the rules, Israel does not. It will take the mass movement of the entire U.S population to not just notice this fact, but to act.

    Bottom line is this: the people with the power to enforce international human rights law through indirect means, will not excercise that power.
    There are repeated articles that prove the U.S’s involvement with Israel is counter to the interests of the U.S population at large. AIPAC continues this trend for their own selfish benefit. It will take the fading of holocaust sentiments for the U.S population, to even come close to critisizing Jewish relations

  102. reply to israeli 3

    its so obvious why there is no far left arab movements supporting israel. Because Israel does not make sense to anyone with a full understanding of the issue! IT is only brainwashed jews and their victims that support the occupation.

    pro-israel advocates cannot proceed through a single debate without mentioning the holocaust and anti-semitism. This is because we as jews are taught that we are hated from birth. The indoctrination process is tenfold in Israel compared to the U.S. The perceived anti-semitism by Israelis fuels their isolationist ideology. Any non-jew is an anti-semite and so on.
    Guilt is no way to win an argument, fact and evidence is the only way. The guilt of the holocaust should not deter politicians from placing sanctions on Israel. Israel's actions do not fit into my moral religious beliefs.

  103. Israeli3

    To @reply to israeli 3
    I see you divide the world to black and white: those who advocate Israel and those Who object to it. those who advocate it are brainwashed and paranoidal individuals and those who object it are moral and informed individuals.

    The reality is that although there are people on the advocate side which are like you describe, there are many (and I dare to say the majority) who don’t use anti-Semitism and the holocaust as an excuse. who advocate Israel (many times also with balanced criticism on Israel) with facts, with the reality of the situation, with the understanding that although Israel makes mistakes (as every other nation does) it doesn’t make it bad/evil/fascist/apartheid and etc. that although the occupation for settlements purpose is wrong, Israel has legitimate security reasons to not just give away the territory’s to the Palestinians, who don’t want to promise (can’t promise?) the end of the conflict, who at least half of them support an ideology of extreme Islam and support the destruction of Israel. Those territories were used throughout the last 100 years as fertile ground of violence against Jews, before the occupation exited and even before Israel existed. (at the end of this post I add links to just some of those legitimate advocates of Israel who advocated Israel just recently, and there are many many more just in the year 2010).

    You say ” Israel does not make sense to anyone with a full understanding of the issue”, and I presume you consider yourself as one who have full understanding of the issue. Well, I have to say I doubt it. You brand everyone who advocates Israel, and most of the people constituting Israeli society, as ill-informed/paranoid/brainwashed as to say that all the considerations I mentioned above, and others, are baseless propaganda. This is not the reasoning of an informed individual. Saying that if someone knows the facts he or she can’t support Israel is just pure arrogance then anything else. Saying that everyone who support Israel is using anti-Semitism as an excuse is pure ignorance, as the links I provided shows, and I’ll be happy to provide countless more if you want. Saying that Israel is an amoral, while Israel has one of the highest ratios of humane rights organizations in the world, many of them are getting financial support from the government and many more from the people of Israel, is just being blind to what Israel is.

    I won’t argue with you about your opinion on Israel, because my instincts tell me it will become a ping-pong discussion where you throw at me half baked truths or distorted truths about how Israel is bad and morally wrong and ill just contradict many (not all) of your accusations with the facts. At the end of the process no one will benefit because when you can’t acknowledge that although you don’t agree with someone he may have valid reasons to think the way he does (like you can’t when you, in one fell swoop, delegitimize all those who support Israel by saying they are brainwashed paranoids) a productive discussion can’t be made.

    But I do want to talk about anti-Semitism. When I “advocate” Israel I don’t use anti-Semitism as an argument, because I have plenty of arguments which support my claims without using the “anti-Semitism card”. And while I do agree that the “anti-Semitism card” was used by Jews to many times not legitimately, to say anti-Semitism is not one of the forces fueling the hatred towards Israel is ignoring reality. I won’t lengthen this post farther to quote the numerous journalists/publicists/ intellectuals and more who uses rhetoric and reasoning against Israel which is exactly like the rhetoric and reasoning that were used against the whole of Jewish people 70-80 years ago and earlier. But, with all due respect, while anti-Semites don’t constitute the majority of western anti-Israel sentiment, it is also not a negligible force. Also, anti-Semitism is much much more prevalent in Arab society and Muslim society (also the western Muslim society). I personally don’t have the resources to prove this, but ill just say the following: although the Israeli – Palestinian conflict effects only some 2 million Palestinians and some 7 million Israelis, and the death toll of this conflict in all 63 years of Israel existence does not nearly match some of today recent conflicts, it gets media attention and humane rights organizations attention by hundreds, and even thousands, percent more then any other conflict. There are conflicts today in the world, which in some of them western nations are involved, that hundreds of millions of people are involved, where there are weeks (only weeks) which the death toll is far far bigger then the death toll the Israeli – Palestinian conflict produced in the last decade. But media and pseudo liberals’ attention is almost solely on Israel. I don’t know, maybe Israel is really the spawn of Satan….

  104. israeli

    i really appreciate what you are doing but you need to realize that a few days from now someone will write something like: "The incursion & bombardment of Gaza, is not about destroying Hamas, it is not about stopping rocket fire into Israel, it is not about achieving peace. The desicion by Israel to rain death & destruction on Gaza, to use lethal & sophisticated weapons of the modern battlefield on a largley defenceless civillian population is the final phase in the decades long campaign to ethnically cleanse Palestinians." (taken from this site).
    and that is without even having a snap look at what you wrote earlier...
    so save your gracious and intelligent words for someone who will actually read them.. i stopped being patient and nice once i saw what kind of people i'm dealing with. they will repeat the same mantra as if you didn't write anything, so you might as well just say whatever is on your heart.

  105. moo

    the years of honnymoon is about to be finished.There is a new world of order on its way to israel.I hope you will be prepared for the changings because what gos around comes around someday.

  106. Biloowop

    Radical Muslims, this words show us bad things or dangerous sign. I think english people have forgotten the deep of Radical meaning. According to my study and knowledge the radical is the person or individual who have deeply interest to correct something for someone. The doctors are radical in there field. Scientists are radical to take care of others and so on. I think the people against of Muslims are increasing the hate against Islam and Muslim. I know one thing all actions get the reaction so the same thing is going on all over the world on non-muslims raise the question on Kashmir, Palestine etc .

  107. David

    Religion - - - - no matter what it is, fundamentalist, "mine is right, and yours is wrong" - - - is opium for the masses, I respect people with faith, in what ever they believe in, but I despise to the core all Religions, that are intolerant, war mongering, "don't let live, unless you live according to my holy book" - - - in the end, true values of honesty, respect ectr. don't come from a holy book, but from a person's heart of knowing what is right and what is wrong, by respecting differences, understanding that those differences can teach us and enrich us. . . . . . Religion is outdated disease of humanity, that is used for getting people to kill each other, simply for the all mighty "dollar" - - - "pound" - - - "Euro" - - - - nothing more, and nothing less unfortunate is that people that blindly believe in their religious cause, don't even know, that they are ALL being used. . . . Religion is just a tool, as any other in the hands of people in power, sociopaths, and megalomaniacs, that believe only in the power that wealth or religion can give them over masses - - - -

  108. Justin_Funski

    Wherever Muslims live there is conflict with their neighbors. The rest of the world can't be wrong, there is something going on in Islam which causes them to provoke fights and I suspect it is the basic tenet to consider all unbelievers as infidels and the desire to establish a world-wide caliphate. These are not values which consider tolerance a good thing nor promote interfaith understanding.

  109. Fredrick Carter

    Also something never mentioned is how musulim country's evicted
    800,000 Jews in the late 40's stealing their land and refusing to take
    in the same amount of refugees from palestine. Creating todays problems. All that after they tryed to drive Isrealies into the see
    But were unable. Most western peoples don't know that Palestine
    was never a nation.

  110. human_mind

    I dare you to think for a moment. Wherever Jews live they are not welcomed either, as other Israelis have stated already in this forum. I'm not a muslim nor jewish. I just think whenever we ask ourselves a question, we should inmediatly turn it upside down and try to scape biased preconceptions we might have been cornered into.

  111. Bobby Mitzel

    okay honestly, lashings for smiling? honestly who thought of that? i want to sit down and talk to that person and tell them how wrong they are. and if you say god made that law ill say prove it, because you're reading from somehing a person wrote and dont tell me otherwise. if you do, ill insist to you that the boogie man exists and that no part of your body can overhang the mattress when you sleep.

  112. Chris Halliday

    Any and all religions that have a specific word set aside for non-others is just wrong.

  113. Ain Zara

    Are you sure , Arab people tell lies ???

  114. Ain Zara

    Jews and Arab ??? long story to look at , and you have to see both sides of their history .... you will find the truths by yourself ... cheers

  115. Ain Zara

    I as Muslim should support the truth , an We have to fight against people who mad a such war against honest people ...

  116. Ain Zara

    "Israel defend its civilians " yes you can these years ,,,, but what about the future ???

  117. Ain Zara

    are you not a religious how and All your " country " as you would like to say build on religion ,,,, strange people you are

  118. Ain Zara

    its really shame on you Gaza ,,, you fight people who are looking for their food ... please can you talk about human right ???

  119. Jim Moore

    funny one could say the same about the US and the West. Where ever they go they bring wars and create genocide. How many countries is it the US has been involved in wars with during the last century and this. To me it seems it is the US that seems to meddle in other peoples affairs and invades other countries or subverts its governments in some way. Put things in perspective before you go off on lopsided statements please. Most of us are intelligent well read people

  120. Jim Moore

    I do not even have to go into the colonial imperialism past of Europe just talking about US invasions of Central America, involvement in South America, Southeast Asia, etc. Come to think of not a decade has gone by without the US is involved some where having a quarrel with someone ! Don't tell me I am imagining all this!

  121. anas samara

    One day Palestine will return to its original owners,milions of dollers are spent every day for the existance of the state of Isreal.For how long can they keep it up?that will be the end of Isreal.

  122. Sherman Monro

    Absolutely well said, thank you David!

  123. Mian Ali

    khalaft shall come.

  124. seamus watson

    As soon as the dollar collapses, they are on their own. That tiny strip of land surrounded by all those Muslim countries. They may just regret their arrogant attitude.

  125. seamus watson

    Where as America picks fights with every body but there neighbours. Christian has persecuted and murdered more people all over the world, than Muslims have in their part of the world. How many Muslims have Israel killed with rocket strikes that hit random targets like schools and hospitals. How many Jews could the Vatican have saved if they had just spoke up and condemned the Nazis. Religion is a joke. A terrible sick joke. Word of God my hairy ass.

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