Deborah 13: Servant of God

2009 ,    »  -   136 Comments
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Ratings: 7.62/10 from 53 users.
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Deborah 13: Servant of God

Deborah Drapper is a very different from the average teenager living in Britain. Deborah lives in a remote corner of rural Dorset. She rarely leaves the farmhouse where she lives with her dad Andrew, mom Ruth, and eight of her ten brothers and sisters. But all that is about to change. This summer Deborah will spend a few days with her brother at University, to get the first taste of what life in the outside world is really like.

Deborah is the fourth of eleven children aged between eighteen months and twenty one years. Her older sister Rebecca married at nineteen and is now a mom. At twenty, Matthew is the oldest of the boys and the sibling Deborah is closest to. He's just back for the summer from the University in Buxton where he's studying to be a chef. Matthew won his place at the University despite never attending a traditional school. Like all of the Drapper children he's been educated at home.

Deborah is a strict Evangelical Christian. She believes she found God at the age of six and has never looked back. She's been invited by council youth worker, Phil, to join him on his friday night rounds, meeting teenagers in Bridport. She's decided to take Matthew along for moral support.

Each day before school starts, the family meet for Bible study. Andrew and Ruth use a traditional translation of the Bible and believe in teaching the children that not one word of it is open to interpretation. While the youngest children nod off listening to the Bible every night, Deborah prefers creationist's sermons found on the Internet.

Every summer Deborah joins the rest of the Drapper clan, to perform a puppet show to the unconverted at a nearby holiday park. Matthew's invited her to stay for a few days when he goes back to Uni in Buxton. Now that he's living away from the family he wants to make sure she's prepared for what life will be like beyond the four walls of home. Matthew's keen to get Deborah as many new experiences as possible during her visit, so he's lined up a shopping trip she's unlikely to find in rural Dorset.

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136 Comments / User Reviews

  1. Mary

    A bright and determined, but deluded young woman; very interesting to see some updates on her blog, but no news after May 2012.

  2. tariqxl

    Shame isn't it, indoctrination of youth should be out lawed but then the governments are all for it. There are very few schools around the world that don't teach that tripe. I challenged my brother to renounce the holy spirit, being the only irredeemable sin in Catholicism. He refused, while dismissing any belief in 'god'... He fears going to hell.

  3. Harry

    this is just.... sad... on so many levels...

  4. me

    well i like the beginning, when they are showing her all the celebrity idiots and she doesnt know who that is.. that shoudl be normal, who the fok cares about some b*tch called beckham or brithey spears??

  5. Farida

    Dear Debbie,

    God is infinite divine Love. The only truth is that He is unconditional Love and He does not require you His child, His beautiful reflection, to do anything to receive this Love. Just love and be loved is the divine mandate. It overcomes the most dire circumstances and situations. If we love we will naturally do the right thing by ourselves and others. There is no hell. It is a state of mortal thought. It encourages fear - in reality, there is no reason to fear. The Bible says, " For God hath not given us the spirit of fear, but of love, and of power and of a sound mind." 2 TIm 1:7

    Perhaps you can take the message of Love out with you as you go to greet other children, equally beloved of God as you are. :D We are all His chosen... That is what unconditional Love does and means to do forever. His blessings are always on each one of us, without exception.

  6. Diego_Garrido

    When are we going to realize that God or WhatEverYouCall-Him-Her-It does not care whether you have sex or go to mass or you use the name in vain or..? All these things have been invented by us; please stop quoting the Bible like it's the proof, it's only a book, like Harry Potter is a book.
    If He-She-It is half as big as believers claim, how can it depend on whether you're this or that?
    Man is God, scared to death.

  7. Mary

    Well, yes, I agree--I don't know who they are either.

  8. Sophie

    I find deborah and her beliefs to be absolutely beautiful, and if you looked at the people she spoke too, there was a hint in their eyes that they knew she was speaking the truth its just they didnt know how to get there. The message is so simple that to them it seemed foolish and its just how our human mind being deceived and programmed for so long that we always think that the explanation to life and creation and meaning and purpose must be some grand long complex mathematical confusing thing.

  9. RickRayFSM

    I think Deborah and her xian friends should read the book, "MAN MADE GOD" by Barbara Walker.

  10. IndustryOfBlame

    WIthout exception? Are you sure? The Bible also says:

    "This is what the Lord Almighty says ... 'Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' " 1 Samuel 15:3

    Though I guess if you don't believe in a literal hell, you probably don't believe in literal infanticide either. I'm curious though, as a devout believer who hopefully has read The Bible in its entirety, how do you relate to this passage (if you do at all) and what is your interpretation in regards to its context?

    On a side note, I'm a bit confused as to why you are addressing Debbie, she did not upload this documentary nor is it likely she visits this site. Unless God intervenes of course, but He didn't for me this morning as I was struggling to find my apartment keys.

  11. Daniel

    And what's your proof?

  12. Daniel

    The scripture you mentioned up there was for a specific time, people & purpose. Read the NT too, if you want to or else keep your comments for yourself.

    Another thing, why do you have to worry about Farida addressing Debbie?

    As to why you didn't get your keys isn't because God didn't want to intervene but because you didn't trust him. Why should he intervene if you don't trust him.

  13. DigiWongaDude

    My sister is married to one of these home-schooled evangelists - an impressionable vessel he is... 15 years younger than her, and with next to no life experience or wisdom from critical thinking. A boy she can mould in to the man of her dreams to make up for the past failures she found.

    Through her, he's found a way to escape the threshold with a somewhat experienced, older, guiding hand, with the bonus of travel. He's finally experiencing life outside the confines of a regimented, circular argument filled home.

    A mutually beneficial relationship you might think?

    But he spends his days looking after her dog while she alone works since he has no work permit in this foreign land. He's unable to show any initiative or assert himself beyond a whimper. Those skills are repressed at best. So he 'freely' drifts in to research... the Myans and Planet X and looking out for the subtle signs of a pending, dramatic climate change - there's no getting away from his doomsday indoctrination.

    But now the authorities are coming to get him - sending him home (most likely with a 10 year ban) for not getting his paperwork in order. Mummy and Daddy have likely kept him room just so.

    When Deborah's brother realises/accepts his sexuality (as he clearly is gay), his world will be in tatters - neither the bible nor his family will save him from his turmoil or doom. His saviour will be his own to command, and through those who accept and love him for who he is. That boy, like my sister's house-boy-husband, is heading for a cathartic reckoning of note.

    I've seen first hand, the affects that this 'teaching beliefs on living for eternity' can have. It's not all bad...but it's certainly not at all good either. What seems clear from these examples is that you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, so just live your life to the fullest. Cross the other bridge when you get there, with your head held high and as few regrets as possible.

  14. DigiWongaDude

    I noticed the hint of wonderment in their eyes too, but I don't think that wonderment was to do with her speaking the truth - There's some raised eyebrows and subtle head turns that illustrate my point.

    You can forgive her for thinking that a single white lie makes you a liar. That it makes you a bad person? Not so easy to forgive. But hey, she's 13, impressionable and trying to find her way: Did you notice how she picks things up and repeats them: her brother warning her about the loud music and drinking suddenly became a mantra of her impressions - of course her bad person speech was adopted too (a late night subliminal TV show probably...[delivered to her in a dream by God? Blah.]

    But she'll not find such polite attentiveness in her later years, as those listening will drop their jaws in their wonderment...or worse. It's easy to be confrontational with your beliefs, when your 13.

    Perhaps she'll keep it up with thicker skin and stubborn assertion of her convictions.

  15. Imightberiding

    This unfortunate sheltered little girl is just parroting the "Banana Man" from down under. "Do you think you're a good/bad person? speech" Don't recall his name but he teamed up with a T.V. child star to conduct creationist arguments on YouTube.

  16. IndustryOfBlame

    Still. according to scripture, even infanticide has its time, place and purpose. I don't see how the NT relates to my previous question, but yes, I know it's a much nicer read.

    I was just wondering by what means she expects the message to get through, that's all.

  17. robertallen1

    How do you know so much about an entity the existence of which you cannot prove and which by nature is unknowable?

  18. Alv V

    I've seen this one before, years ago, and the only thing that bothered me was BBC portraying it like something is wrong with this girl, since she had missed out on Britney Spears and Spice Girls. I felt that I was the one that had missed out by watching it, specially
    when she was compared to the other (drunk and braindead) girls, something that just
    reminded about my own upbringing. I'd be really proud if I had a daughter like that, only I would tell her that creationism is proved wrong and generally that theology is not a branch of science.

  19. RedMagnolia

    As an artist I can tell you why God isn't real.

    There is no way anyone would create anything as beautiful and wondrous as Earth and then let parasites called humans destroy it the way we have and not take a big stick to them.

  20. RedMagnolia

    Here's a better question....
    Why in hell would God trust humans as caretakers of the Earth when all we do is abuse and destroy its beauty in the name of "Economic Growth"?

  21. DigiWongaDude

    Thanks for the link Paul, nice one!

  22. Diego_Garrido

    I have no proof, Daniel. It's only what my intuition tells me, I don't expect you to believe me.

    It's funny the way I need to proof anything I claim, and institutionalized religious people go unchecked, because they have 'The Book'. It's a book. In the documentary Deborah needs scientific proof for the Big Bang, yet she is ready to swallow everything the Bible says. Funny.

  23. docoman

    You're talking about Ray Comfort... he's from New Zealand mate, not Aus. That 'banana' piece is one of the funniest pro-creation 'arguments' I've seen, going on about how banana's were created by god for man, while displaying a human designed banana. Ray Comfort is a liar in my opinion, I've seen a few of his BS efforts now, and I believe he knows he's not telling the truth, but he makes money from it so...

  24. LostHearts

    Poor thing; inoculated with the God Virus at such a young age.

  25. JezusVanNazareth

    I never pretended to be anything other than an outcast... you realize this right?

  26. JezusVanNazareth

    Aboiut 500 years of solid science mate... just open your goddamned eyes.

  27. JezusVanNazareth

    Well done sir!

  28. JezusVanNazareth

    God is a fairytale..... and as with all other such fairytales, it NEVER stems from anything else but fear and indoctrination.

    Teaching kids to live their lives based upon the throne of fear and disdain is immoral at best, and should be catagorized as child abuse.

    Your empty excuse for existance is dying....

  29. Clancey

    Yeah, poor thing, when she could have been just like all other young people full of hope and intelligence.

  30. robertallen1

    It sure beats anything religion has to offer.

  31. Klaus-bud Oracle-kaczor

    it amazes me how adaptable we humans are. This family seems to thrive using this biblical template no matter what we think of them and so does this culture do well on a totally different model Top Docs "Blood Sacrifice in Sumba"

  32. MicknotDick

    wow...Love and respect the differences in views. But dinosaurs did not live in the Garden of Eden.

  33. MicknotDick

    if they had...the Bible would have told me so.

  34. Imightberiding

    You are correct. It was Ray Comfort I was thinking of. Sorry, don't know much about him & in my ignorance got the accent wrong. Yes, one of the most genetically modified & manipulated plants on the planet by man & this goof is claiming it was created by God in its present form so that we can grip it & also have a sealed, ready to peel & go food at hand. Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!

    The man is a few bananas short of a bunch in my opinion as well. He also did that: "Have you ever lied? Have you ever cheated? Have you ever stolen? Do you think you're a good person?" bullsh#t on a video I saw on YouTube. This little girl was obviously quoting directly from her memory of viewing the same video.

    Her self-righteous attitude was forgiven by those two young women with an openness that she will not find very often in the future if she continues her self indulgent piety.

    The statement she made that she is a Christian not because of her upbringing & parents but because she found Jesus on her own was beyond absurd in that a few minutes later in the doc her father explained how he endeavors to indoctrinate & raise his children in the way of Christ & the Bible.

    I admittedly was raised in a very strict evangelical Christian home as well. Both my parents were ordained Pentacostal/Charasmatic ministers. When I was her age, I could hardly rest because I believed it was my responsibility to tell the world about Christ. I was beside myself at the thought of someone standing next to me going to hell & I was doing nothing to stop it. It made for very many awkward situations not unlike this you girl has & is experiencing. I even attended a Bible College for a couple years in my quest to become a minister & missionary.

    I look at this film now & shake my head that it is still happening in this day & age. I'm 50 now by the way & I have since seen the light. (years ago) The light of this beautiful world in all its glory, evolution, big bangs, critical thinking & the wonder of living a fulfilled life while we have this one chance & not banking on the ever after or living in fear of hell.

    Unfortunately I am the only one who has escaped the hold of religion. My entire family & extended relatives all look at me as the black sheep & pray for my soul.

    My apologies for being so long winded in response to your comment. I can only hope & trust that she too will come to her senses & start to think for herself in a critical fashion as she grows up.

  35. DigiWongaDude

    Interesting :)

    - Do you think it has to do with the small size of the community 'unit'?

    - Do you think it relies on keeping outsider influence external?

    If you think yes to both then what does that say about our attempts to build a global community living in peace and harmony? A bridge too far? This question seriously perplexes me.

    Should cultures be nurtured and protected, or should the cord be cut and the culture consigned to history books in the pursuit of progress and synergy? There are some good arguments for cutting the cord, but here's mine (arguably) for not...

    An oppressed nation/culture/family can live productively, functionally...ignorantly perhaps...but in a peaceful equilibrium [of sorts]. If a global community were ever to reach the same state of existence, it would have to be severely controlled and manipulated or division will take place (think cell division).

    It seems to me that in order to create a global community requires a much more worrying glue to hold it together. It seems to me that a free global community is a contradiction in terms - freedom can not be global, and global can never be free.

    Our differences of beliefs and traditions prevent such a thing, unless those beliefs and traditions can first be destroyed or replaced with ones that all can live by, without causing confliction. Yet...as a species, we can hardly agree on anything let alone a global belief system. So what's the point? We can never get rid of conflict completely, nor should we wish to (that may require some thought experiments). Conflict plays an integral part in our daily, personal lives (even if you live on a deserted island). So again, what's the point of destroying cultures, traditions, nationalities and languages in the pursuit of some global community that can not be held together without ever increasing amounts of brute force? The point...yes there is one...is profit and control of labour.

    So run this forward a hundred years or more, where most of our labour is done by machines through technology. Profit is nicely taken care of by that, leaving only a necessary global force of control...slavery. Slavery through debt, and slavery through reliance on goods and services. Clearly the cell will yearn to divide. Clearly the glue that binds it must get stronger.

    Look around you...prisons are being built, laws are being made (not one of them with individual freedoms in mind), food supply is being channelled in to the hands of a few, healthcare, education, welfare, pensions...all being eroded away like never before in history. We are moving towards a global community of reliant, dumbed down, poor, sick individuals who have no culture or traditions or beliefs other than those afforded to them by the corporate state they rely on.

    Now look at Deborah. She and her family refuse to give up their beliefs. Even in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence, they refuse to conform to a more modern world view. They at least are holding their ground, while we are 'three sheets to the wind' at the mercy of the state.

    Who, I ask in all honesty, is the wiser?

  36. robertallen1

    No more than a family of yahoos.

  37. dmxi

    a very well placed link that perturbed a "mmh?!" moment...nice one(sorry,digi for copying but i felt exactly the same)!

  38. dmxi

    religion was an evolutionary tool & now we have the pleasure of studying their remnants,like in a staged setting,if you will.glorious days we slave-labor ourselves through,a mighty spectacle in the war against the gods for our self-governing ambitions!

  39. Sieben Stern

    Yes, BUT if we were like that family we'd be back in the dark ages. Modern society isn't just the conflict, but the discoveries, the pushed boundaries, and the ability to think and dream ahead of iron age manuscripts made 1800 years ago.

    They rely on the people that reject their beliefs and push forward. They are protected in their country by the British military, by scientific discoveries in medicine and food production. They are not as separate from the modern world as they think they are.

    Eventually there will be an atheist in their midst. It's only a matter of time.

  40. Sieben Stern

    God loves us all. That's why there's crushing poverty and AIDS and cancer AND wealthy evangelical pastors that molest boys. God's love.

  41. Sieben Stern

    OH, right, it's A-OK to slaughter innocents when imaginary god says it's ok!

    You christians are disgusting!

    If i facepalm any harder i'll bruise myself.

    though, if you want to find keys I'd pray to Saint Dennis Leary and find out what he has to say about keeping track of your keys! XD

  42. herbicat

    Most of these comments are from the brainwashed Anglos who cannot even see that he culture of the university students was bunk and synthetic. Yeah right the disco is a sign enlightened people...nope, its a sign of degenerates. None of those people have any understanding or education they just copy cat pop culture mostly imported from the USA. So what if this family holds to the Christian faith, I bet that 13 year old girl can academically run circles around the whole bunch of these fools including the BBC woman. I will be happy to see the Chinese colonize your lands and replace your drunken, drug addicted lost civilization that no longer has a purpose.

  43. robertallen1

    I doubt it, especially in science.
    And just what purpose is a civilization supposed to have?
    P.S. Discos are idiotic and moronic.

  44. herbicat

    What science? I didn't see any science in this at all. I am guessing you are meaning Darwinism. Have you seen The Ultimate History Lesson: A Weekend with John Taylor Gatto? Gatto explains something interesting about Darwin and how the "science" of evolution draws from the ideology of the British oligarchy. I don't claim to know what the origins are but I think evolution is as bunk as creation.

    Okay, I think your right, I wont say civilization has a purpose, but my god these students are immersed in a totally synthetic (made in Hollywood) culture. So where are we going with that and how is that any better than someone who is living by strict religious ideals.

  45. robertallen1

    What are your scientific credentials? My guess is that they're equal to Mr. Gatto's. Now, let's see you try to explain biology without evolution and when you're done with that, how about discussing the vital sciences of virology and immunology without evolution. Yours is one of the more ignorant posts to appear on TDF in some time.

  46. James Maxie

    ok drunk people watching this dont make me feel better about the world at all so ill say this to all of you science haters stop using computers tv's microwaves modern medicine you cant denies evolution and modern physics and use the stuff that evolution and physics helps make possible this is disgusting when will the world grow up pray a rocket into space godtards and see how far it goes when your done let us know so we can go back to really understanding the world and making it a better place using science

  47. DigiWongaDude

    Agreed...

    In a battle of clichés...

    ...they might say: "Curiosity killed the cat".

    ...we might say: "To make an omelet you have to break some eggs".

    Remember the husband and wife couple from the TV series "Lost"?...they decided to cut themselves off from the group and just live their lives in peace, even if that meant death...same sort of thing. And yes the couple did die, and arguably as a direct result of [contentedly] burying their heads in the sand, so yes I get it, I understand and I agree with you.

    However... :)

    What I am addressing here, is that there are legitimate reasons to respect others wishes and beliefs, always [EDIT: as long as no harm is done to others]

    I would almost certainly have to agree with them (hypothetically) that "curiosity killed the cat" may be the case at this stage of mankind's journey - since we have unleashed powers beyond the levels by which we can use them responsibly. Can... worms... everywhere! The list for this is endless. But I would also say this is a pessimistic perspective that is severely lacking some of our finest human traits.

    The other side of that coin is the celebration of omelet making ability - we have achieved great things, incredible things, wondrous things. It's inevitable we've broken some eggs.

    But here's my gripe (as I posted in King Korn) - if you take the pinnacle of our social science of economics and mix in the finest ingredients from the natural sciences...

    - Have we relieved starvation from the world? No. We have produced epidemics of obesity and disease in concentrated quarters.

    - Have we solved our energy needs? No. We've built bombs that will potentially exterminate all mammals at the push of a few buttons, whilst burning organic matter to heat water - yep, that's pretty much the pinnacle of our energy uses.

    - Have we created, through networks of information, a world where free thought and expression has led to a transcendence? No. We've turned it in to an exercise of submissive surveillance and public relations through data collection, on a scale never before seen.

    What is our ratio of steps forward, to steps back?

    Are we moving forward overall or is that just a false sense of progress through the bastardisation of implemented technology?

    I remain justifiably undecided. Deborah and her family simply do not. How can I possibly make a judgement on them for that?

    End note: I could have said all this in a much shorter passage, but I do like to delve deeper. :-) So thanks, as always, for reading.

  48. robertallen1

    One way or the other Deborah and her family are no more than wilful ignoramuses and by such religious indoctrination, her parents are no better than child abusers.

  49. docoman

    I agree with your comments, and applaud your strength to make up your own mind regardless of the pressures put on you.

  50. P. Dog

    Lovely girl and lovely family living life in such a stunning place. I can understand why they so freely believe in creation. Now I think I know what the talking snake said to the dinosaurs... "Blame the white bi-ped because in the future he will disrespect and destroy the ground on which he walks." Amen.

  51. robertallen1

    A very ignorant family is more like it, one which will continue to spread its ignorance.

  52. jackmax

    Here's something I found about your so called lovely family....

    "mr x said on July 24th, 2013

    You guys have no idea what they’re capable of. I can tell you now, the man you see in this video ‘the dad’ is not a very nice person at all. It was his belief that Becky’s husband was
    entitled to sex from her whenever he wanted it, whether she did or not didn’t matter. I was going out with his daughter Becky for about a year in 2012 and yes, she was married but they were separated (for obvious reasons). Becky, who is Deborah’s sister, told me so many things about what her dad did to their mum and to all of the children and what he did to her when she was about 14. She’s had to go through a lot of counselling to try to get over it. Unfortunately counselling is not the answer for Becky. She is a product of this horrible mans’ ‘teachings’ and will probably never get over it. I know so much about them, most of which you would never think they were capable of. Trust me, it’s an eye opener!

    Clearly what you see in this video is a child that has been disciplined beyond recognition. They are taught by their parents how to ‘act’ in front of social services and the media. They have all been trained or conditioned by a wooden spoon. I don’t think God would approve of anything that these poor children are being ‘taught’.
    This man is clearly a bully, plain and simple."

    I don't know this to be true, it is just something I found in another discussion about this doco else where.

  53. robertallen1

    @jackmax:disqus
    Thanks.

  54. P. Dog

    "Pray it to the white guy in the sky and go to heaven..."
    -The Talking Snake speaking from the Garden of Eden

  55. DigiWongaDude

    Surprise, surprise. Well done for finding that! It was only in the early nineties that a 300 year old UK law was overturned. That law stated that a woman in wedlock had no right to file a rape charge against her husband. The revelation of this astounded many (myself included), the roots of which most definitely go back to that book. That a man can still, in this day and age, believe he has the right to assert conjugal rights to an unwilling partner is most disgusting. If your source is true, then this man is using the bible as a weapon of power. Despicable.

  56. jackmax

    G'day Digi,

    To only use for to book of lies is to put under corner of your bed to ensure it level....:)
    All religions are evil in my opinion and the sooner we become less tolerant of all religions the better.
    We have evolved further than believing fairy-tale from the greatest fiction novel ever written.
    The advancements and the evidence found or discovered through science is to great to argue with. and in my humble opinion the beauty of the understanding what we have learned so far is we still have so far to go.
    There is no place for religion in politics, and the law of the your country are law you have to abide by and no other law from a fictional "magic man" ..
    The sooner people realize the only effect religion has is to slow the progression of man.

  57. Imightberiding

    Thank you. It is through people like you & others not unlike yourself that have helped me find the truth. Just wanted add, it is sites like this that keep me grounded.

  58. D. B.

    this girl is right about people caring to much about what others think about them. Unfortunatly she is indoctrinated

  59. oQ

    What i see is a very bright young girl, especially after reading her last entry on her web site.
    She, like many who participate on TDF, may have lived a young indoctrinated life but she has the curiosity, determination and brain to reach for her truth, no matter what that turns out to be in 20yrs.
    1i

  60. robertallen1

    Not as long as she stays with this family of yahoos.

  61. oQ

    In my view, she may even have what it takes to change a few of them. Just as long as she keeps travelling the world and accepts to exchange with others on all levels, eventually a blend of information will be presented.
    1i

  62. robertallen1

    It doesn't have to be the world, a reputable educational institution will do--and at the rate she's going, it's more likely she'll remain the ignorant hick she is.

  63. nate

    This family is like a clone of mine..
    10 children
    It's kent Hovind in the videos talking about the science textbooks.. the same one in jail for tax evasion
    UGh....

  64. oQ

    click on her name at the very top, you'll see at what rate she is going.
    You can't always put every one in one religious bag of despicable. Actually many people you befriend here on TDF were at one time in situation very similar to hers.
    1i

  65. robertallen1

    As of 2009, she was still no more than an idiotic religee.

  66. Achems_Razor

    Read her blog. yes, a bunch of religee loonie tunes, Ray Comfort, Ken Ham and Hovind not withstanding. She will not change, she is signed sealed and delivered!

  67. ColdDevil4

    Had to read it myself. I remember catching this doc on iPlayer in 2009. No surprise she's still a religee. Unfortunately, by 17 her (parent's) religion would have been drilled deep and it would be no easy feat to drastically rewire her psyche. This is what tends to happen when someone has such limited exposure when young in those crucial developing years. Homeschooling limits a child's ability to that of their parents. I don't see her a zealot as much as I see her as a victim of her upbringing, which in my opinion more or less amounts to child abuse. Given that, shouldn't we be a little more sympathetic?

  68. robertallen1

    Towards whom? Certainly not the parents. And as she will probably end up a worse proselytizer than she is now, not her either.

  69. oQ

    Would you be willing to put a large sum of money on that? She will change, to what? no one knows, not even her, it will all depend on the people she meets along the way, that including teachers. Ask any ex-religious fanatic...some right here on TDF.
    1i

  70. Achems_Razor

    The people she has met according to her blog are all religious loony tunes, "creationist institute"? give me a break!

    You want to bet money do you toots? How large is a large sum to you? And what time period do have in mind? just joking, no bets allowed on TDF

    She will not change, she is signed, sealed, and delivered, once a fundy religee always a fundy religee, by the way, what ex-religee fanatics are there here on TDF.

  71. Pysmythe

    If you ever went over to Exchristian dot net, you'd find a whole lot of people who at one time bought the whole fundamentalist enchilada, but eventually managed to sick it up. And many of them can make very compelling arguments for disbelief when challenged, since they know the other side of the coin so well. In other words, their passion and their desire for knowledge (but of the genuine sort) tends to carry over... The sense of betrayal that many of them feel can be very motivating for them.

  72. oQ

    I was thinking more in the way of "life teachers".
    I don't ever bet when i'm not sure of something, it was just a way of talking.
    A few people, (i don't need to name names) have described a life oversaturated by religious parents and almost indoctrinated to the core...but flew away.
    1i

  73. robertallen1

    For a fine counterexample, tune into the preaching atheist. For another, what about Bart Ehrman.

  74. Achems_Razor

    True enough, but since this doc is specifically about her, my take is that she IS (indoctrinated) to the core, and will always be a religee.

  75. Jacek Walker

    This family has created an illusion of living a separate, pure and pious life fenced-off of dangers of the real world.
    Basically it is all grounded on fear. Fear of God. Fear of the outside world. Fear of people. Fear of being hurt or offended or seduced (by watching some inappropriate media). Fear of life itself.
    And the most terrible fear of all is that all these repressed desires, longings, emotions will burst out one day when confronted with the outside world. So they have decided to build a comfortable prison to their own detriment.
    Very sad story.

  76. CF

    I really rather admire this family in some ways. I applaud their togetherness and their family values. I respect their beliefs though I don't share them entirely, I just feel rather saddened in some ways when I think of how this child's belief in God is so fear based. Her fear of hell seems to be her driving force, fear rather than love.

  77. robertallen1

    There is nothing to admire about a family of yahoos, especially a family of proselytizing yahoos.

  78. CF

    I don't know, just because I don't agree with some of it doesn't mean there is NOTHING to admire. I wouldn't mind living in the countryside with a big family and spending time with them in a close-knit way like that.

  79. robertallen1

    Considering their ignorance and their desire to spread it, I certainly would. In short, they're despicable.

  80. CF

    Well I didn't mean with THAT family, I meant with my own. Who I would encourage to learn about anything and everything they wanted and believe in anything they found to be true for themselves. I would just encourage LOVE and teach them about how fear isn't real. But, like the family in this documentary I would hope they were close-knit and liked to spend time together and that they didn't care about stupid pop stars or worship tv shows. Do you understand what I mean? Their lifestyle is appealing, and I admire their family values, whether or not I agree with their spiritual ideology. (I don't).

  81. robertallen1

    Since when is wilful ignorance (and this certainly ties into their lifestyle--note the Kent Hovind video in the background) and its promotion admirable or even appealing?

  82. AK

    The kids don't know Kardashians and Gagas. I would say they are blessed.

  83. CF

    It seems like maybe you don't want to understand what I mean? Basically; I want to have a big family and live in the countryside. That's all. You're so insistent on your condemnation for them that you're choosing to ignore my point and focus only on the faults you find with them. Yes, yes, they are ignorant, blah blah blah, and also I would love to have a big family and live in that beautiful farmhouse in the countryside and spend lots of time together and not send my kids to shitty public schools and then plop them in front of a tv at night like many parents do these days. That is all.

  84. robertallen1

    The beautiful farmhouse in the countryside is fine, but their ignorance pervades everything and it's better that they be sent to a shitty public school where they might pick up some knowledge then be forced to undergo their religious-based home schooling which is really no schooling at all.

  85. Achems_Razor

    Since there is a religious majority that pervades the USA standard of living, most of the religee's plop there kids in front of religious tv shows, Kent Hovind not withstanding, that show the ignorance of there religions to there offspring as this fearful (you may be going to hell if you do not believe) so called utopian family does.

    I would rather let the kids enjoy the full spectrum of the positive advances of science, technology, latest movies, and yes, pop star vids, latest and not latest music, to whatever turns their crank instead off suppressing the kids from day one. Religion is a disease, a virus of the mind.

  86. CF

    Okay, I see your point. What if I had a big family of my own though, and I chose not to have tv's and limited and monitored the internet to educational subjects (anything they wanted to learn about) and had private tutors come in to educate them formally? Would that be wrong because I am limiting their exposure? I would simply want them to grow up looking inside for meaning and identity rather than outside, and certainly I am not an evangelical Christian so that wouldn't be part of my agenda, but someone could argue that I am still shaping my children's beliefs for instance sharing with them my belief that every religion has merit of it's own.. Have you seen the documentary "With One Voice"? Or "Inner Worlds, Outer Worlds" the 4-part series on youtube? I guess I could be described as "new-agey" and would hope to teach my children to think critically and for themselves. But would it be wrong of me to shelter them from what I deem to be shallow garbage like reality tv? Or to homeschool them? This is all hypothetical, I don't even have children and I live in LA which is decidedly different than the countryside.

  87. CF

    I'm just saying, that don't all parents "shape" their children, teach them core values, decide what is appropriate, or not, protect them from what they believe is harmful... I mean at what point does parenting become harmful, in your opinion? Because I'm sure the Drappers think they are doing what's right, based on their beliefs. Just as you would think it was right to expose your children to whatever... What is a paren't job if not to protect and guide their children? I don't think right to scare a child into fearing hell every night, but if they really believe that stuff, isn't it their job to "protect" their child by teaching them that? Who are we to judge? Who are we to think we know more or better than they do? Isn't that the same as them thinking they know better than the wretched soul headed to hell? I mean I don't disagree with you, I'm really just wondering, because I do feel bad for that little girl, but I also see why if you truly believed what they believe they would feel it their duty to protect her by teaching her the same...

  88. robertallen1

    As long as religion (and I don't mean comparative religion) or any other such bunk didn't enter into their education and their education was rigorous.
    P.S. I live in L.A. too.

  89. robertallen1

    Parenting becomes harmful when the kids wind up in some fantasy land which is exactly what has happened with the Drappers. Teaching impressionable children that they are damned and will burn in hell for doing or not doing, believing or not believing in certain things is child abuse, as is teaching them that evolution isn't true and that the earth was created in six days and that it is only 6,000-10,000 years old. Pere and Mere Drapper are about as despicable as they come.

  90. CF

    But they really believe in those things! Those parents truly believe that if they don't teach their child to repent that that child will end up eternally damned to hell. So isn't it their duty then, to try to "save" that child? Just because we disagree, how do we know better than them? I mean we believe we are right and they are wrong, but surely just as strongly they believe the opposite. What gives us the authority to deem their righteousness?

  91. robertallen1

    There are also those that believe in a flat earth, that the earth is only 6,000-10,000 years old and that dinosaurs walked with humans--and unfortunately some of these people have reproduced. Do you believe that they should teach this nonsense to their offspring no matter how staunchly they believe it? There are those who do not believe in medicine. Should they be able to inculcate their offspring with this lunacy? Should they be allowed to deny their offspring its benefits in the name of their pernicious belief? If your answer to any of these questions is in the affirmative, you are no better than a child abuser.
    Yes, we do know better--and its not because we disagree, but because we go by the evidence and the conclusions drawn therefrom, not some antideluvian superstition.. ..

  92. CF

    You're right of course, I just feel bad when it comes to questions of faith, but I suppose if they are being taught things that aren't true... Though they did say that they let their children have free reign of the internet... I don't know, I do feel terribly for that girl for being so afraid like that.

  93. CF

    Also you're right that it has to with verifiable truths, not with faith vs faith. So I suppose it's no different than a color-blind person teaching a child that green is called red and red is called green or something because that's how they see it, even if that's not reality. Yes I agree with you. I so still wish to live in that charming farmhouse though. However, cheers to LA :)

  94. Klaus-bud Oracle-kaczor

    I meant not to destroy individual cultures but somehow guarantee them globally. But I do see where the control element is the danger.

  95. DigiWongaDude

    Many thanks @Klaus-bud Oracle-kaczor, glad your keyboard is working again (I've seen your other post too). This is a response to both:

    Yes it's good to think about these things from different angles, scales and motives. To have a truly open mind is as much to say 'I know nothing for certain', in my opinion, since every new perspective can potentially turn an opinion about a topic on its head in an instant.

    There is a lot to be said, however, for having faith in one's beliefs and ideas, whilst keeping an open mind to them - it [faith] can bring great success, especially in the face of adversity. Where to draw the line, perhaps, is when faith/ideas/beliefs negatively affect or knowingly harm others, but that too is only my opinion...and just like a-holes, everyone's got one. :)

  96. robertallen1

    I know for certain that in a right triangle, the sum of the squares of the sides equals the square of the hypotenuse. I know for certain than you cannot trisect an angle with merely a compass and straightedge. I know that George Washington died in 1799, the year of Balzac's birth. I know my own name and my parents' names as well. I know that the grocery store is two blocks down the street. Shall I go on?

    As it is based on nothing which can be substantiated, there is nothing to be said for faith and it's obvious that you still haven't learned the difference between faith and reliance, but this is to be expected from someone who obviously believes that one opinion as good as another.

    Nonsense as usual.

  97. robertallen1

    I can prove what I've stated. Now, let's see you prove that you own something the existence of which you cannot prove.
    P.S. My name is Robert. That's another fact!

  98. Angela Greenwood

    Hi, No, all parents don't shape their kids, well not in a good way anyway and many don't teach them core values! Of course it is their job to, but many nowadays don't do their job then wonder why their kids grow up bad. I can't get the film to run, yet, have to try again later but my daughter watched it and told me about it. In some ways I admire these people too, their kids will grow up with sound principles, sound beliefs and values. Better than a lot of kids get nowadays. I would have liked to home school my children, wish I had now looking back. We moved around in Europe, being at school they became trilingual, I couldn't have done that for them! I don't think it is good to indoctrinate your children with set views though, there is more than one way of living and more than one set of values, alternatives should be presented to them, so they can choose between many good ways how they they would like to live their lives.

  99. Angela Greenwood

    what a lovely girl Debbie is. Sad that she worries so much about sin and hell, she will lead a good life and if she commits little sins I'm sure she would be forgiven because she is basically a very good person. She needs to lighten up a little to enjoy her life. But seeing the other's at that party, the way many of them behave, I know she wouldn't want to behave like them and I prefer her behaviour to theirs!

  100. Angela Greenwood

    They are not despicable but it is very hard to bring kids up to be good people nowadays. I imagine that some of their children will become just like the other's in the uni, get drunk, have sex with anybody and the Drapper's will be very upset about that. That kind of behavior is so sad though, for example, the girl who walked over to Debbie and her brother and asked if anybody wanted to 'draw on her boobs', did she really say that drawing attention to the tarty way she was dressed? The Drappers are way over the other side, i do prefer their lives really to the drunken messy horribly promiscuous behaviour of young people nowadays, Debbie is better off behaving as she does and having respect for herself as not very many of those other young people can possibly have.

  101. Angela Greenwood

    Not really a prison, they allow their children to go to university, they haven't cut themselves off from outside life!

  102. jeff

    just wait 'til those god fearing parents find out that their son is lying down with another man.... holy blasphemer, batman!!!

  103. bringmeredwine

    I get ya.

  104. bringmeredwine

    I'm sorry to say, (it must be the Devil in me), that these deeply devout families used to make me feel sooo inadequate; till their daughters ran off or got knocked up, and their parents divorced or got caught fooling around.
    I have known lots that met this fate.
    I don't know if they are only fooling themselves or living a lie.

  105. bringmeredwine

    Well, I'd rather live with the Duggars. At least they don't spend every waking moment judging others.
    Deborah is miserable.
    I'll bet her brothers' room mates couldn't wait till she left. They were so nice to her, really lovely girls.
    Her brother is very good to her. She's very lucky to have him.
    I'd rather stick a needle in my eye than check out her blog.

  106. robertallen1

    If you wish to wallow in the ignorance engendered by religion, that's your business.

  107. bringmeredwine

    Sooo, I'm wallowing in ignorance because I found Deborah's actions annoying?
    I don't believe in what the Christian Bible says, but I don't knock people who do.
    I just find her non-stop judgement of other people hard to take.
    Yes, it is my business and I can write whatever I want after watching her story.
    And so can you.

  108. robertallen1

    No, you're wallowing in ignorance because you'd rather live with the Duggars.

  109. bringmeredwine

    hahahahaha!
    I know, can you imagine?
    That'll never happen, I promise.
    I gotta run back to my camp now.
    Take care!

  110. tamamitu

    A lot of my collages at my research lab did not watch TV and they do not know how the Kardashians or Lady Gaga looked like, but this is not a result of ignorance (unlike those kids). Ignorance may be a blessing, but they are missing out a lot of opportunities for learning when their brains are developing, and will probably have a difficult life out of their family.

  111. Gordon Phillips

    This is a suicidal cult if ever I saw one. Those parents are bigots who are leading their flock into a dangerous Waco scenario. Turn away now people before it's too late. Save yourselves and follow evolution.

  112. gtmancan

    Yes, too bad she isn't out there like the rest of teenage girls getting pregnant, contracting STDs, feeling miserable comparing themselves to false idols and ideals, etc. etc. Remember, she's only 13 and will learn more of life as an adult Difference being she will be much better than you believe than your average British teenager. Teenagers experiencing an epidemic of STDs such as genital warts.

  113. gwyneth martin

    i have the priveledge of calling this family my friends they r amazing loving kind people who give there all to everything they do i have fallen on hard times and they have all been there for me and my family whos to say there way of life is wrong i know myself and my family have become better people since knowing this family

  114. gwyneth martin

    deborah is far from miserable she is amazing infact the whole family is they are lovely kind people and im honoured they have welcomed me and my family into there hearts and call us friends

  115. Diego_Garrido

    That's exactly the same that anyone could have said about
    Arthur Liebehenschel and his family. what is your point, and why you do not use any comas or punctuation.

  116. Aster Nova

    I could tell Debra was lying about not wondering about other children
    and many of the other questions she was asked. She looked like she was
    about to cry during the barn questioning. I feel so sorry for her. Funny, how she criticizes the big bang, evolution and does not even have a basic understanding of the two. She also holds science at a higher standard than she does her religious beliefs.

  117. Aster Nova

    "Let their children?" By the time they are college age, they are 18.

  118. louisrr

    The brother is gay. I wonder how the family will take that when he comes out?

  119. louisrr

    Who cares? The Christian-fascists helped you in need. Does that negate their indoctrination of their kids? The family could be Jewish or atheist...and still help you in need.
    So what?

  120. Helga Guerreiro

    I believe those parents love that child more than anything, (with the possible exception of god), they seem like great people. This is of no relevance to the fact that she seems to live terrorised by the idea of eternal damnation and is totally equivocated about big bang and evolution, thus ill educated. It's a horrible question to answer, but we need to ask, is it really fair to allow parents to indoctrinate their kids and shelter them from the world they will one day have to be a part of? Further to allow them to deceive their kids out of commonly accepted facts of science, simply because they are in conflict with their religious dogma? Where's the line where that child stops being someone's child and begins being a citizen of a secular nation?

  121. Richard Neva

    A beautiful story about one of God's chosen and how she witnesses to the beauty of a Christian life in Jesus!

  122. Eve's Apple

    I'm not so sure that this is a beautiful story. I was very much like that at 13, sheltered, naïve, in a world of my own. Little did I know that I had a VERY rude awakening ahead!
    What I say next will sound controversial but I believe that if Deborah manages to go to a secular college she may be inadvertently setting herself up for sexual assault by her attitude and her hypermodesty. Sad to say, there are people out there who think there is nothing wrong in forcing another person's sexual initiation and look upon women like Deborah as a challenge. Her very modesty and sexual unavailability could make her a target for such people. On the other hand, the girl who went around inviting people to write on her boobs may be in far less danger of sexual assault because of her attitude of freedom. Rape is not a crime of lust, it is a crime of anger. As in let's teach that snooty Christian b***h a lesson.
    I can imagine Deborah being "befriended" by a group of people who pretend to be interested in her message and invited to a party. This time around her big brother is not around to protect her. Little does she know that her food and drink may have been spiked, The next thing she knows is that something sexual has happened to her but she cannot remember how or any details. This is traumatic enough for anyone. For someone like her, it could push her right over the edge. Especially if she was taught that women get raped because they were asking for it.
    I did not have that particular experience because by the time I went to college I was much more worldly and I had learned that not everyone who approaches you In friendship is a friend. I did however, experience the anger of men who took my refusal to have sex with them as a personal insult, and had some very close calls. My Deborah-like attitude also did not win me any friends in the workplace. On at least one occasion my work was deliberately sabotaged to get me in trouble with my superiors, who were not at all sympathetic.
    And yes, there were people out there who applauded the destructive course I was on and said what a witness I was and what a beautiful testimony for the Lord. These were the same people who turned their back on me in my hour of need. They were not there to help me defend myself against the supervisor when my work was sabotaged. They were not there at all for any of the things I went through. All they could offer from their comfortable and secure positions in life was "rejoice because this is part of being a Christian."
    So no, I don't think this is a beautiful story. I think it is a tragic story.

  123. disqus_O2BUmbLecp

    Deborah Drapper was not quite correct about all humans having broken parts of the 10 Commandments and so, are bound for hell, eg white lies, coveting, taking the name of God in vain(for saying, "Oh, my God/OMG", "for Christ-sake", etc).

    At MATTHEW.19:15-26, the Word of God implied that there were Jews who had faithfully kept all the laws of Moses, including the 10 Commandments, and offered animal sacrifices for their unintentional sins.
    .......Yet, Jesus Christ had stated that they were still not perfect, wrt salvation or the qualification to inherit the kingdom of heaven. To be perfect, a do-good'ing, righteous and law-abiding Jew had to also believe in Jesus and follow after Him, in order to also inherit heaven, ...besides having already gotten a good, prosperous and long life on earth. Bear in mind that heaven only comes after death or leaving this rotten earth.

    B4 the 1st Advent of Jesus(in the years BC, eg the era of Moses was around 1500 BC), all Old Testament figures who had faithfully kept Moses Law qualified for heaven, eg Moses, beggar Lazarus, Elijah, etc(LUKE.16:19, MATT.17:2 & 27:52). This is explained at 1PET.3:19 & 4:6.
    .......But after the arrival of Jesus(in the years AD, eg 2014 AD), this was no longer true for the Jews or for Gentiles(=non-Jews), ie the Jews had to keep Moses Law plus believe in JC, in order to inherit heaven or eternal life.
    .......For new Gentile Christians(GC), ACTS.15:29 states that they had to gradually learn to keep all the non-burdensome laws of Moses(eg the 10 Commandments, LEV.10:9 & 18:22, DEUT.18:9-14, etc) plus believe in JC for their salvation. GC can exempt themselves from all the burdensome laws of Moses, eg circumcision, kosher foods, keeping Sabbath on Friday, etc.

    At MATT.5:27-30, JC had elaborated on this fact, ie whenever people harbored immoral lust in their hearts towards another, they were already bound for hell, ie they did not hv to commit adultery b4 being sent to hell. This meant that all humans are bound for hell bc they often harbor all kinds of evil/sinful thoughts in their hearts and minds, eg lust, hate, anger, greed, selfishness, envy, jealousy, fear, worry, doubts about God, etc.(MARK.7:21, JOHN.8:44, MATT.16:23 & 23:27)
    .......This is the inheritance from Adam's Original Sin, which all humans are born with, ie evilness/sinfulness in their hearts and minds(=the carnal flesh).
    .......Be aware that while still living on earth, the committing of sins/evil-deeds, eg adultery, rape, murder, stealing, cheating, bearing false witness(=perjury), blasphemy, etc, will usually result in being cursed/punished by God or His agents, eg the police/govt, demons, etc.(DEUT.28:15, GAL.6:8, ROM.6:23) There is quite a big difference between sinning-in-thoughts and sinning-in-deeds.

    Bc of Adam's Original Sin, a great gulf separates heaven and earth.(LUKE.16:26) Hence, narrow is the road that leads to heaven, but broad is the road that leads to hell. Hence, a believer like Deborah Drapper is in the minority, even in the West, eg England.

    The only way to escape from hell is for people's inborn Adamic sin nature to be atoned for. God the Father in heaven has provided for this atonement, ie the blood of Jesus on the Cross.(LEV.17:11, HEB.9:22, ROM.5:12-18, JOHN.14:1-6 & 3:16)

    About 2,000 years ago on earth, JC was like a human-robot, subjected under the full remote-control of God the Father-in-heaven, via the Spirit. JC was sent to earth for the specific purpose of "saving" believers from hell.
    .......This is similar to a hobbyist on the ground controlling a small remote-control helicopter/aeroplane in the air, via radiowaves.

    Peace.

  124. AlienDan

    Servant of delusion.

  125. NewCovenant

    Every Born Again Believer in Y'shua, must be filled with the Holy Spirit promised by Y'shua to accurately live according to God's Living Speaking Word. The holy Spirit is God's Holy Spirit here on Earth to teach us God's Breathed Words of LIFE to us, because man's soul is not saved-(God dwells in our spirit) and unrenewed minds (Adam's nature) can not know & understand the revealing of God's Truth. We must learn humility for God to raise us up into this new life so that we can become ONE with Him (John 17.)

  126. NewCovenant

    Actually, Deborah is more intellectual and sensitive than 90% of the adults in the world-or didn't you notice this?

  127. NewCovenant

    There is Truth and there is the opposite which would be lies. Everyone has a belief system, and dependent upon your belief system your own sense of what can be true based on a wrong belief system then causes error in your life. If the human race would just get over their egos and actually read the Word of God, which is proven by the Dead Sea Scrolls among other ancient historical documents that confer Israel's history along with the lineages of Adam and Eve that made up the people groups of that time period, then one could easily see why there is an Intelligent Designer rather than Darwin's theory of selective order otherwise know as the "ruling class" verses the common people on the earth that came from apes! Since you probably are not up there in trillions, than you admit you come from a monkey. God's Word has intricately woven man's origin, (God Breathed) the universe, destiny and eternal life or separation from God Almighty if you chose-He created us w/ a free will to make choices & not be forced to believe in Him, faith in God and His Word comes through Jesus Who is Love. It is a Living Word that tells us our origin through profound LOVE!

  128. prakrttika

    worst documentary ever seen feel pity for BBC
    how can she serve god without serving the planet
    she need counseling and to be educated about where she can find god before she get lost
    she is craves fame and attention and god is her tool
    she is trying to sell god. she don't know what she is doing
    poor kid blame on her parents
    "little knowledge is very dangerous"

  129. prakrttika

    she is faking and she know that better than any one its reflecting on her face
    she is losing all the godly matter from her
    the rejection made her to do so
    like kids act stomach pain if they don't want to go school
    she is doing a big sin need to be corrected before she spoil other kids

  130. Lucy Lastic

    ?

  131. Bob

    Both 'messages' can be found within the Bible if you look. The carrot and the stick approach are both used. What Deborah is being taught depends on what interpretation her teachers (parents) prefer. What denomination of Christianity, of the over 1000 denominations, they are 'divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit' to choose. Based on content amount, the 'negative, punishment message' has the advantage. Based on logic, even your 'positive, redemption message' implies an accompanying punishment statement/promise/threat, and so is disadvantaged.

    The only grounds your suggested world view holds water is on theological grounds. And that is all just basically ideas with no accompanying evidence. Someone's interpretation of a shoddy book (Bible) or ideas that every denomination declares is the correct inspired one. (As you just implied in your blog.) Denominations..,just another example of mutually exclusive Christian claims.

  132. Rio Wright

    Truly inspiring documentary.. I wish I was like her when I was her age. So fearless and eager to spread the word of the God.

  133. Rio Wright

    What has opened to Deborah and where is she now? The last I've seen any activity was from 2012 when I google searched her.

  134. Michael H

    A 13 year old girl thinks she's a "wretched, horrible person". How terribly sad.

  135. Mr. No Name

    I can see there are a lot of conflicting arguments in the comments section of this debate. And while I firmly believe that there is a God who created us, I think some of the points brought up can be quite extreme, like how for telling a tiny lie we will all go to hell and burn. I honestly hate the extremist thoughts about God being this reflection of Adolf Hitler or some kind of dictator, who can flip through the book o' rules and tell us straight away that we won't be seeing any more of him or Mr. Happy. There is a reason why the Bible - which you should not take for word as it is extremely outdated in modern society, and even if it was taken seriously then it would be alright to stone a rebellious son to death - says that God loves us and that he is Our Father. He is kind of like a man we can go to with our problems and just chat with, or have any old conversation with because he is like our Father. And if God loved us then there would be no sending people to hell UNLESS it was a serious crime e.g. murder or rape.

  136. Malone

    Her sister could not be a 'mom' as she is British and 'mom' is an Americanism rather than correct English.

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