Discovering Religion

Discovering ReligionWelcome to Discovering Religion - an original series on the discrepancies between a literalistic belief in religious mythologies and the cold, hard facts of evolution and 21st Century scientific discoveries of the Earth and Universe.

Here is an excerpt from the YouTube channel description of the maker of this documentary: "I have been asked on multiple occasions to clarify the nature of my beliefs, as the title of my series is a little ambiguous. Neither I nor anyone else can say with 100% certainty whether "God(s)" does or does not exist.

Therefore, the aim of this series is to examine what religious philosophies tell us about where we are from and where we are going, then compare and contrast these views against the indisputable facts discovered about the Earth and Universe through rigorous scientific investigation. From my own investigation of these facts I've determined the Bible inaccurately describes the known Universe and therefore is not something in which I can place my belief.

Although I have come to understand the Abrahamic God is very unlikely to exist, I want my series to convey a sense of objectivity. There has been a recent trend among many popular atheist channels on YouTube to bash religion or look down on those for believing in a higher power. I see no difference between this and passing moral judgment on someone for being gay or for holding a contrary political view.

Theist or atheist, gay or straight, republican or democrat, etc., etc. - it makes no difference what you believe or how you feel best to live your life, so long as the same rights and freedoms that you enjoy are extended to everyone else.

I hope both theists and non-theists can equally enjoy this series. I understand there are many different ways in which to lead one's life, and although many of us may personally disagree with one another on moral, religious, or philosophical grounds, opposing views should be respected. However, our respect of the FACTS must come before all else."

Watch the full documentary now (playlist - 5 hours, 21 minutes)

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Ratings: 7.13/10 from 8 users.
  • Achems Razor

    Some good points in this doc.
    Will wait for the religee's to give us their particular brand of humour. (LOL)

  • coyote03

    another great YouTube upload! Pink Floyd's 'Echoes' was a nice way to start it off :D

    "our respect of the FACTS must come before all else." I have a feeling I know what the argument against this is going to be :P

  • coyote03

    Episode 6 is my favorite :)

  • Dai

    Some very good points,common sense and rational thinking over faith every time :)

  • ez2b12

    If it starts with Floyd's echoes it is worth a watch. Looove me some Floyd. I recomend The Final Cut, a somewhat obscure album by Floyd. Almost a part two to The Wall. Great stuff man, even without all the drugs that used to make it so "psychedelic" it is good. I must admit though I miss the seventies and a good glass of shroom tea once and awhile. Don't think i could handle it now though, sticking with my green- if you know what I mean.

  • coyote03

    not going to lie, I commented before watching the entire thing, something I normally hate doing and yell at others for haha

    After watching it all, all I can say is WOW! this has to be one of the most informative documentaries I've ever seen, almost 3 full hours of amazing information! WATCH IT ALL!!!

    I love Pink Floyd, I know 'The Final Cut' very well, I'm more a fan of earlier Floyd like 'Meddle' up through to 'Dark Side', 'Wish You Were Here' and 'Animals'. I love 'The Wall, but I find 'The Final Cut' to be more a work of Roger Waters, not a group effort. David Gilmour is definitely my favourite band member, I even like 'The Division Bell' which was entirely without Waters! Sticking with the green! I know what you mean. It's also my scene :P haha yay for rhyming!

  • Achems Razor

    Well, am up to 10, 9 to go. And I agree with @coyote03
    This doc. is a wow! and a person does not have to be a brain surgeon to understand the doc. It is presented in a straight forward manner that any one can understand.

    But let me tell you, this doc. will give creationists a run for their money.

    Even Ray Comfort, and his banana from god is on here (LOL)

  • Scott

    @ ez2b12
    Though a bit off topic, I thought I'd chime in. You should consider giving mushrooms another chance. I know I don't really know you at all, but I think you could handle it. Mushrooms have absolutely astonishing revelatory and healing powers. To each their own, of course, but I can't help but recommend this incredible teacher to anyone.

  • ez2b12

    @ Scott
    I did tons when I was younger. I agree that they can teach you a lot, i had several life changing revelations on the little daisies when I was doing them. That said I have witnessed first hand that they can be dangerouse if too many are ingested and some people are not wired for the trip at all. Their are several differnet kinds of varying potency, we did psilocybe cubensis- a very potent strain that elevates heart rate and can cause stroke or other pulmonary problems. I wouldn't trade those times for anything but, I doubt really that i would like it anymore. I'm glad you do though and wish you luck, be careful please.

    @ everyone
    Please be careful if you decide to try this, I would in fact advise against it. We where young and stupid and could have killed ourselves. It is not addictive or habit forming but should still be respected and recognized as a foreign substance that you are putting in your body.They are a lot better than a lot of the stuff that is out their now, but they are still a drug.- Although a very different sort of drug.

    I don't mean to preach and I know people will do what they will do. I would hate to think though that someone read my post and got the idea to do shrooms and then got hurt or worse. Their are healthier ways, in my opinion, to have fun and get into spirituality. Don't mean to be a drag but my life is not one you want to model yours after, trust me.

  • ez2b12

    @ The Coyote

    I love the earlier stuff as well, umma gumma was a little out their for me but the rest I love. I suppose wish you where here, Animals, and The Final Cut where my favorie albums. I liked the Division Bell as well, went to the concert in Birmingham, Al. My least favorite was Momentary Lapse of Reason- its good but not what i expect from Floyd. I really cant think of any Floyd other than Umma Gumma that i just didn't get into. Final Cut is all Rogers, but I still love it. He definetly had some issues about his dad dying in the war obviousely, but he expresses them in a way that I can relate to.

    Now i have to get to watching this doc. Two of the people on this site that I respect the most (yourself and Achem) have said it was great so I can't wait. Later yall, I'll post again after watching of course.

  • Olu

    Can the presenter slow down a little? It feels like I am listening to a speed-reader.

  • Achems Razor

    @Olu:

    You want something slower?
    Try ..."Foundational-falsehoods-of-creationism/"...here on TDF

    I know, can't help it, (LOL)

  • http://www.aranisland.info Aran Islands

    Like what you do too much to swear.
    What a load of ****

  • coyote03

    @ Aran Islands - What exactly is a load of c#$%? Did you watch the entire thing? Are there any points you'd actually like to bring up?

  • coyote03

    @ ez - I'm also not crazy about Ummagumma, although I do own it haha 'Several Species Of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together In A Cave And Grooving With A Pict' is definitely up their on the 'random' scale! I used to really like Rogers lyrics, then I became more into the music Gilmour was producing. Songs like 'Comfortably Numb' are a perfect combination of the two or 'Shine on You Crazy Diamond'. Sorry for the distraction, get back to watching! Thanks for the kind words!

  • coyote03

    @ Vlatko - I keep trying to post a comment but it says I've already posted this comment, I cannot see it anywhere up there so I'm assuming no one else can see it. It is a post directed to Achems Razor and I have no idea how to fix this incredibly frustrating and annoying problem! I'll try posting it at the bottom of this message.

    @ Achems Razor - I'm sure you'll enjoy the rest! The Ray Comfort 'banana from god' scene is one of the funniest things I've ever seen, Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron are H I L A R I O U S! The poster just has to show a picture of the uncultivated 'original' banana to smash his argument to pieces!

    I've seen the debate that they've taken a few of the clips from, it's pretty decent, although the people opposing Comfort and Cameron could have done a better job, in my opinion. The only thing you can do when he shows a picture of a croco-duck is just laugh!

    The evolution of the 'whale' from land mammal to sea mammal was pretty spectacular, the amount of transitional forms shown and explained was really enlightening! I think the focus on transitional forms and vestigial organs was the best part for me :)

  • coyote03

    woohooo did it! :)

  • MrMajestik

    Doc about Religion ... and it starts with my favorite song of all time... This better be good or I will just go put on Meddle! Pass the acid please, you can keep your religion!

  • Insomniac

    The very first sound in this doc is a Pink Floyd song and that alone was enough for the first few comments to go straight to hallucinogenic mushrooms and LSD? I guess the actual subject at hand has been over-commented lately ^^

    Great doc presented respectfully and easy to understand. No one can whine about the "tone" in this one. Vlatko you did it again! :)

  • ez2b12

    @ Insomniac

    Sorry man, we where a little off topic their. Of course I was just heavily involved in a three day 600 and something post thread about evolution and religion so i am a little tired of the subject, for now anyway. Besides a little fun never hurt, didn't mean to distract though.

    @ Everyone
    Its a great doc I think episode seven is my favorite so far, Im on 12- I think. Did anyone else have trouble getting nine to play all the way through? It would stop about half way for me and wouldn't go any further, not buffering just stopped. Then I clicked on settings and this little box popped up and started running through all these different menus really fast.

    I know what you guys are thinking but I swear I put the shrooms and LSD down in the seventies. This was real, any way i just refreshed and I am starting over at 12. This is one of the best docs on evolution vrs creationism I've seen. It isn't insulting toward religion or the religiouse, only fundementalist- and it doesn't spend much time on that really.

    It does go into some of the bible stories and the fact that they are scientifically impossible but, it also says that many interpret the bible and gain meaning from it in a metaphorical context. In my experience this has been the beliefs of most of the christians I have met, that the bible should not be taken literally but should be interpretted. This leads to enough problems on its own, interpretting the bible in different ways. Why would someone want the added issues of trying to take it literally?

    It can't be a choice they make because it is fun or popular to be a fundamentalist, surely it is neither. It leads me to think they are compelled in some way to take it literally. I'm not trying to get any kind of arguement going but I wonder why they would choose this route, what kind of phsycology lies behind that choice. Thats a very interesting question to me. If anyone has an opinion please share it.

  • Achems Razor

    @ez2b12:

    Am on 12 also, yes, 9 stopped halfway through for me to.

  • Achems Razor

    Finished all, great doc, my take has always been that all religion should be outlawed to make room for the sciences. You never know, might even happen in a couple of thousand years or so, when finally, misinformed people get out of the bronze age way of religious thinking.

  • ez2b12

    Finally finished it all, whew that was a long one. Still a good watch, pace slows down as you get further into the doc. At first i thought it was going to stay at that break neck speed, like Foundational Falsehoods did. Both are good docs but Foundational Falsehoods is just too fast and too much info all at once for my taste. I need time to digest what i have been told, especially when it is technical details which FF of Creationism was full of, before you hit me with another technical fact. Maybe I am just slow to the take though, enjoy everyone.

  • coyote03

    Transitional forms and vestigial organs! If you don't believe in Evolution, be sure to check out Episodes 5-12 specifically :D

    Foundational Falsehoods was full of great information, it just wasn't presented in the best manner. This documentary on the other hand is very easy to digest, it's the sort of thing we should see being played in schools, at least in my opinion.

  • JibJab

    Terrible naration. His pace of speech is much too fast.

  • JibJab

    Actually, the narration speed improves drastically after the initial episode.

  • Scott

    @ ez2b12 Cheers! (about your reply)

    About this: "It can’t be a choice they make because it is fun or popular to be a fundamentalist, surely it is neither."

    I haven't watched these docs, to be fair, but I think that I can venture a guess on that one. I have a couple suggestions.

    The first one you pretty much already said in your post. The fact that interpreting the Bible (for example) leads to many interpretations. If you take it literally there is only really one way of looking at it. Of course, in my view, this is a very childish way of looking at things. It almost has a ring of arrogance to it. It's as if people who take the texts literally don't think people of that time could have had the ability to make analogies and metaphors. Seems like, if anything, they would control the language better than some of the people of today.

    My other thought is that they are just like punks or metalheads (or any other clique.) Everyone wants to be seen as the MOST hardcore or the MOST trendy or the MOST (shudder) $ BLING BLING $. So if Christianity is cool, maybe you want to be the MOST Christian. You don't want to just do what someone says the Bible is about. You want to do what's in the Bible TO THE MAX. It's kind of evident in all that promise ring s@#$in the states. Like, "oOOOoOOoO look how PURE I am with this promise ring, everyone look at my purity." The display is what matters. If you have no one to break that mold or the people that do are ostracized then you're just stuck like that. Everyone in that circle then becomes afraid of falling out of line. Or perhaps if they do they get the heck outta dodge. People will end up adopting that mindset and will actually be happy with it. It becomes normalized.

  • Reasons Voice

    Roger Waters is currently touring the Wall album. Get out there and see it!! ok now to watch the Doc. see ya in 3 hours.

  • http://ineedanaspirine! Krissto

    ....worse thing i have ever see....use some period(.) some comma(,) some something....even if you with, what you are saying, you would be right, someone has to be a psychopath to follow your arguments....You are not a storyteller, you are a headache ....

  • coyote03

    @ Krissto

    you're right, he isn't a story-teller or a professional actor, he's a medical student who posted a video on YouTube. This isn't religion, it's science, he's presenting us the FACTS, not a story meant to be merely entertaining (I thought it was incredibly entertaining nonetheless).

    If you want to watch someone deliver a story, go watch your pastor give a sermon. But to suggest you'd have to be a psychopath to follow his arguments is lunacy, I can tell with 100% certainty you did not watch the entire thing! Just because you don't understand his arguments doesn't mean it's not right! And to suggest everyone else who actually understood and followed along is psychopathic, well, friend, you're a FOOL!

  • Grumm

    episode 6, first 3 mins, all with a straight face.;)

    wonderful doc.
    thank you for letting me watch.

  • http://ineedanaspirine! Krissto

    The Sun Is My Father And The Earth My Mother.
    The World Is My Country, Science My Religion.

  • http://ineedanaspirine! Krissto

    Well made, well done! Taking back my previous comment. Episode 1 was a little bit...somehow and that was the reason I've only watched 1-2 minutes of it....After seeing it all, i must say this person did indeed a good work.
    Exactly my point of view of Cosmos...

  • Pritesh

    I find it could have been communicated properly. It did not connect with me in a sense that the speaker just read off the script he had rather than trying to communicate to the audience. If he just posted that script on a website, I would reading it then listen to him.

  • Connie

    Achems Razor ,
    I might be tempoarily ducking but I am listening :-)

    Achems Razor09/07/2010 at 17:56 Some good points in this doc.
    Will wait for the religee’s to give us their particular brand of humour. (LOL)

    So now say 100 Hail Mary's and kiss the Popes feet. (LOL)

  • ez2b12

    @ Pritesh

    This guy is not a proffesional documentary maker, thats obviouse. Yes he could have made it a better cinematic experience with a better narrator and effects but, that would have taken away from the context- just a little, in my opinion. It being presented as fact and being fact kind of played together, if you take my meaning. I loved it.

  • Epicurus

    @EZ, you know people these days. if it isnt narrated by Morgan Freeman and speaking in the simplest terms possible they will get bored and not understand it.

    So rather than owning up to their own intellectual short comings they project those feelings towards the documentary and maker to spare themselves the cognitive dissonance.

  • mike

    More creationist, id, b@##$%&*... evolution is a scientific theory, not a guess. Believing or not believing. Is not going to make evolution any less factual... God of the gaps arguments. A mythical answer is not equal to a scientific 130 yr old scientific theory. Just like gravity, we will continue to fill in the pieces, but it will not change the fact of gravity, not the fact of evolution.

    If you want respect for your opinions, then do the research on the topics. First... and google god of the gaps while your at it.

  • john

    all in all a very well produced and informative doc...i think we are fighting a losing battle against the fundies. when you guys vote in November remember to ask the politicians how old they think the earth is. this is more important than any other issue as their outlook on life and religion will seriously affect the decisions they make. Don't vote for christy politicians. if they believe this c@#$ then they have done something serious they need forgiveness for.

  • DcNC

    Dude, take a breath. The narrator is talking so quickly, one sentence running straight into the next, I felt anxious just listening to the endless barrage of information. There's a lot of information to share, we know. But jeez, slow it down. I couldn't make it through the first 6 minutes. When my 6-year old talks this fast, I make her stop, take a big breath and slow it down. Maybe it's my kapha tendencies showing here. Slow and steady!

  • Connie

    @ DcNC

    Thanks For addressing that, And I agree. I am hearing impaired and have to put the setences to gether and figure out the parts I cant hear like a puzzle and its way too hard to keep up.

    I am watching it for about the 7th time, perhaps I will evenyually put the puzzle together LOL

  • DcNC

    Yeah, from what I heard in the first 6 minutes, great information, going in a great direction. I just can't listen to that voice-in-a-tunnel box talking that fast. I'd rather read the information for myself. Wonder if they have scripts of these documentaries available?

  • Enzo

    Great series. Dislike the title though, it should really be Disproving Religion. But hey that's the only complaint I've got. Oh and @ Scott Shrooms are good but have you ever tried DMT? Taking it actually changed my whole perception on reality and existence, it was the final step in breaking free from my religious upbringing.

  • Cliff

    Great documentary and detailed explanations of the theory of evolution. The thing is 'faith' doesn't care about facts. So it's just preaching to the choir. I'm a non-practicing atheist (self-coined term? haha), in that I don't believe in a higher power but I don't want to take a side in any issue and don't want to debate about it. No stress here. :)

  • Scott

    @ Enzo I've tried DMT by way of Ayauasca. Only once though. Definitely powerful stuff but I find mushrooms to be equally powerful. To me the most powerful trips seem to come about fairly randomly and are often not dose dependent. Last weekend I had what was probably the most significant psychedelic experience of my life from a relatively low dose of mushrooms. I think when you're ready these experiences just happen and the drugs just open the door (or floodgates as per my last experience, lol.)

  • Reasons Voice

    Nice doc. The repetative intro eating up 30seconds each part was a pain in the butt. Asside from that great film. Kirk Cameron is a tool. To all those girls who loved him in his Tiger Beat days (you know who you are) FOR SHAME!! lol.
    @Connie: will add my name to the pettition. But don't be surprised if it is all for naught. It will take quite some time to pull these cultures out of the stone (stoning) age. If it can be done at all.

  • Randy

    I have not watched this yet, and I haven't the time to do so now. But, it does seem like it would be something I would really enjoy and relate to... etc...

    However, from the introductory statement I have an exception:

    "There has been a recent trend among many popular atheist channels on YouTube to bash religion or look down on those for believing in a higher power. I see no difference between this and passing moral judgment on someone for being gay or for holding a contrary political view...."

    My exception is this: That statement sounds very reasonable and tolerant. Except that, in my country, christians and mormons and New-Age con artists, actually invade my home, proselytise my (sadly uneducated and gullible) loved ones, putting their lives in danger, and impoverishing them.

    Also, they invade my country's legislature and make laws that take away my civil rights, based on irrational, stone-age beliefs.

    Hell, you can't even get elected in my country these days unless you profess faith in some form of the biblical god, whereas in other developed democratic nations, talking out loud about it would make you un-electable... (in-electable?)

    That, (my country's pathology), I do not forgive. And I will bash them for that.

    The Amish, The Quakers, Bhuddists, Hindus, and other non-proslytizing, non-political, religions-- I have no quarrels with. They leave me alone, I leave them alone, and even champion their rights.

    You've got to understand, for many christians, there is only One Way! One Truth! There is only the camp of jesus and the camp of Satan... no middle ground, no tolerance, no mercy. And those are the ones gaining power in my country.

    If they are not tolerant of me, then I will NOT be tolerant of them. Sorry...

  • eireannach666

    I liked this. It was full of good facts and some really good points werw brought up. A lot of them I have been speaking on for a long time. The first part sounded like one of my drunken rants I get on after I had too much Jack in a room full of religees.

    I enjoyed it overall. But I too had some trouble at times watching it. I don't know which part, I wasn't paying attention to that.

  • jari

    Good doc. The narrator is fast, but there are subtitles to read so no probs following him.

  • eireannach666

    @Achems

    I say you are right. Abolish the lies and misleading outdated teachings of these cults and let science lead the way to a future of progression and knowledge.

    Oh and maybe if we survive as a species or even the planet itself for another thousand years.

  • ez2b12

    @ Randy

    I couldn't have said it better, and I've tried several times on this very site. I am so sick of the right wing conservative jamm religion down their throat politicians taking control right now. They even managed to make it such an issue in the last election that people who had in the past been "religion nuetral" (coined a new phrase) starting talking about their faith. I remember something on CNN were they asked all the candidates what their religiouse beliefs were and also asked Americans if it mattered to them. The over whelming majority said it did matter, unbelievable!!

    I'm with you, nothing wrong with it as long as it is seperate from politics, science, and public schools.

  • Randy

    @ez who wrote:

    "I’m with you, nothing wrong with it as long as it is seperate from politics, science, and public schools..."

    Yes. Exactly as our Founders intended, in fact, eh?

    But listen, as someone with some considerable knowledge in World History, what I see happening around us is certainly nothing new.

    Whenever any empire declines, there is a mad, panicky, dash to some fundamentalist dogma/superstition, in the hopes that their Imaginary Freinds will save them... it's happened dozens of times in human history...

    The result? Always the same. It actually hastens the end because instead of doing something practical and logical, they waste their time on fantasy.

    (Allow me to qualify the word "end". Of course, I do not mean the empire vanishes, although that does sometimes happen-- more often, the empire simply collapses economically, only to be subsumed by the next Super-Power to take its place... and there is always another Super-Power to takes its place!)

  • faithfulstill

    so,based on the discrepancy of time, the validity and purpose of christianity is written off as false and ridiculous? over an argument of years?? so, then if creationists were to simply agree with scientists as to the age of the earth being comprised of millions instead of thousands years, would this documentary lose some its argumentative strength? Perhaps the earth is millions of years old, perhaps it is trillions of years old, perhaps mankind will never know exactly the age of the earth, but that issue alone does not prove creation or evolution either way. At the very basic foundation of the argument, both remain theories and both are only as concrete as the faith of those that choose to believe either theory.

  • ez2b12

    @ Randy

    Exactly what they (the founding fathers) intended in my opinion. Is it not funny how the "tea party" tries to say they want to return to the values of our founding fathers. If we did return to these values, first of all they were not all good, but the first thing to go would be religion in politics. Take for instance Thomas Jefferson.

    Although Jefferson believed in a Creator, his concept of it resembled that of the god of deism (the term "Nature's God" used by deists of the time). With his scientific bent, Jefferson sought to organize his thoughts on religion. He rejected the superstitions and mysticism of Christianity and even went so far as to edit the gospels, removing the miracles and mysticism of Jesus (see The Jefferson Bible) leaving only what he deemed the correct moral philosophy of Jesus.

    Or Benjamin Franklin who wrote, in a letter to Ezra Styles, the president of Yale who had asked Franklins views on religion.

    "As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his divinity..."

    (Carl Van Doren. Benjamin Franklin. New York: The Viking Press, 1938, p. 777.)

    I could go on and on, but I'm sure you already know that most of the founding fathers were diest and not christians.If the science we have now had of existed then, I think they would have dropped the idea of a god all together.I doubt the tea party guys even bothered to check this out, they just assumed the stuff we all hear growing up about the founding fathers is all true. Though I would not put it past those that formed and continue to lead the radical and somewhat racist tea party to striaght out lie, they do it all the time about other stuff.

    As far as I know most of the founding fathers were against a central bank and wanted congress to issue the currency at no debt to the government- as needed. But the tea party never talks about this, except Ron Paul, who I am not sure even is in the tea party. I know Rand Paul is and he has the nerve to suggest that states should trump the federal government on all points, even civil rights. Do this and see how blacks get treated were I live, Alabama. If we elect these clowns I am moving to Canada, if I can afford it.

  • Achems Razor

    @faithfulstill:

    You say..."both remain theories and both are only as concrete as the faith of those that choose to believe either theory"???

    Show me where creationism is a theory???

  • Randy

    @faithfulstill

    Your statements are utterly incorrect on nearly every point.

    We know the age of the Earth very well. It is 4 billion years old. Any discrepency plus or minus from the 4 Billion is so samll as to be comparitavely insignificant...

    Evolution is an observable fact. Evolution is NOT Darwinism.

    Scientists know all these things and much, much more... YOU don't know them... but that doesn't bring anything to the reality of the questions...

    There are observable facts proved by robust science, and then there are opinions. Opinions mean nothing. You need to understand more real facts and stop trusting your, obviously, very faulty opinions--- frankly...

  • ez2b12

    @ faithfulstill

    You asked: "so, then if creationists were to simply agree with scientists as to the age of the earth being comprised of millions instead of thousands years, would this documentary lose some its argumentative strength?"

    To answer your question flatly, no- absolutedly not. This is just one of the several dozen facts to support evolution in this documentary. Did you watch it all? I don't want to argue with you, trust me someone will oblige you if that is what you want- just not me please, I have had enough of argueing this point for awhile.

    You really should watch it all though, their are many many facts in this doc that can be confirmed and help to prove evolution. He doesn't spend much time disproving creation, but some. Give it a honest try, just once. Your faith is safe as long as you do not view the bible as literal. Even then it is safe if you insist on keeping it. No one can tell you what to believe of course, but i think if you would just let go for awhile and give this a shot- you might find it to be self evident almost. Either way i wish you well, no harm or sarcasm intended.

    By the way i have given religion a try when I was younger. I have even went to church many times as an atheist. I just can not believe what my mind, science, and tons of emperical evidence tell me is false. I have opened my heart as they say, no convictions here at all. Sorry if that disappoints you, or maybe you don't care. Either is fine with me, I'm sure you are a nice enough person.

  • ez2b12

    @ Faithfulstill
    Definition of faith- belief in the absence of evidence.

    We do not have faith in evolution as it has plenty of evidence to prove it as a fact, the only thing in question is the mechanism that drives it. I would say most see this to be natural selection, but not all. The words you use when talking about religion or science are very important as they take on different meanings in this context. Don't mean to be picky or split hairs it is just the truth.

  • john

    ez2b12...you would be welcome up here to the REAL land of the free..however all is not perfect here either, we are having a similar fight with right wing christy leaders in steven harper our current prime minister. problem is our liberal party of canada is out of touch so there is no one up here for liberal leaning folk to vote for.

  • john

    @ Faithfulstill
    typical blind religee...grow up and be a man.

  • Scott

    @ John
    As a fellow Canadian I'd have to disagree that this is "the REAL land of the free".

    @ Other people
    I think you guys are being a little too harsh on Faithfulstill (although, now I realize the intensity of that name, which I didn't really digest before, lol) Sure maybe Evolution is more than just a theory, but I think the first point he made is a good one.

  • ez2b12

    @ John

    Sorry to hear that man, its like a desease eating its way through one democracy after another. I really don't know if i would like Canada or not. i could probably just move from the southeast and be alot happier. In our country this, the southeast, is the seat of stupidity, fundamentalism, racism, poor economy, you name the ill we got it bad.

    I love the scenery and a lot of the younger people are great, maybe not that bright but at least most are starting to let go of religion to some degree. I would miss the stories I get to hear from the older people as well, crazy stuff about the depression and living without electricity and all, it is interesting to me. Of course once I get out of college I will probably have no choice if I want to go to work in my field, not too many physicists around here.

    All said though I would probably never leave the US, its my home. We still have a lot of really good things here to enjoy, not for long though if we do not wake up. I think Obama would have been a good president if big business and the Republicans would have let him actually be president that is.

    They have blocked most of what he has tried to do and what he got done does no good because big business decided they would make it hard on us until we elect who they want. They are not going to hire or invest until we get rid of him, wether the economy is good or not. Insurance companies decided to raise all their rates and deductibles, since he will not let them cheat us the way they used to. One way or another they are going to make their money and get rid of him in the process.

    Thay have tried to suggest or out right say he is a Muslim, because they know how most Americans feel about Muslims right now. See, religiouse intolerance is not only unfair to them but it gets us in a mess as well. I am not religiouse at all, atheist as I have made plain i think. But I can not stand this stuff about christianity being o.k. but lets demonize all other religions, especially Islam. In reality he is a christian anyway, not a Muslim.

    Even if he was who cares, can he fix the economy and provide for our protection- if so I like him. I don't care if he is the leader of some cult, just get me a job and don't let anyone invade us or otherwise cause trouble for our security. I know he can do this- they just will not let him. Argh!!! I got chill out man, I'm getting on a rant and getting angry. Thanks for your kind words man, i wish you luck with your jesus freaks.

  • Achems Razor

    There is no real land of the free in North America.

    To go off topic for a bit. A birth certificate is a negotiable instrument, a registered security, in this case, Canada the corporation under U.K. Queen. The birth certificate is a stock certificate evidencing, or representing the preferred stock of the corporation of Canada and against which you are the surety, it is a pedigree chattel document establishing the existence of our straw man, a distinct artificial person with a fictitious name; As evidenced by our name in "Capitis Diminutio Maxima" (CAPITAL LETTERS) it is a warehouse receipt for your body; delivery receipt; YOU ARE OWNED AS A CORPORATE ENTITY.

    In that regard you also work for the corp, of Canada and are entitled to benefits. We are shareholders in Canada and are worth millions. There are ways to collect on that, but that is entirely another matter.

    It would basically be the same in the USA.

  • sahota

    enjoyed it throughly...but couldn't convince myself with stem-cell research, stem cell has life and for me ,as a vegetarian ,it doesn't seem correct to kill anything due to any reason

  • Scott

    @ Achems

    Yeah, I have a friend who's mom is into that stuff. Selling back birth certificates, not paying taxes etc. Not sure how it all works but apparently she does get money out of it.

    @ sahota
    I am also a vegetarian and I kill plants on a regular basis.

  • platoson

    Excellent documentary, well researched, well presented and well argued.

  • Randy

    @sahota

    Listen-- I feel the need to jump on this here as I do whenever I meet a hippie who tells me something silly like "Life is Sacred..."

    First, the food of life IS life.

    Second, Nothing can be created until something is, first, destroyed.

    Third, You and I, everyone here, and every living thing on this planet must eventually become food for something-- either while still alive, (hundreds of thousands of humans in the world get eaten alive by something every year), or, after you are dead. Yes, even if you get cremated...

    Also, and most important, even vegetarians are responsible for the destruction of whole species and eco systems filled with animals. Yes.

    Do you think nature intended for hundreds of acres of lettuce to be growing in one place at the same time? Or tomatoes, or oranges? No. Humans have to clear cut land, strenuously maintain that land, (because Uni-Cultures in nature are aberrant), and protect it from predation by killing off local species of animals.

    All so you can have a salad.

    Oh, and cows pigs and chickens, never existed in nature until human beings created them, specifically for food.

    BTW, ever buy anything from Wal-Mart? Best Buy? Any of the big box-stores? Ever send any electronic equipment in to get "recycled". Yes, I'm sure you have...

    Well, each purchase probably killed maybe 3 little Asian kids, maybe an adult... Toxic electronic recycling, is nothing of the kind... generally, they put that junk on huge barges and float them over to Africa or China and dump them in a river. Killing eco-systems and humans.

    You and I and everyone, really, can't get through life without being responsible for hundreds of deaths of animals and humans... that's just life, my friend. A sad but necessary reality. You try to minimize it, but you have to understand you can't stop it.

    Toughen up, grow-up, or become a victim. Your choice.

  • Randy

    That being said, I would add: I do agree with Dr. Temple Grandin when she said, "Of course we have to kill animals for food, but we don't have to be cruel about it."

    And all that that implies...

  • ez2b12

    @ sahota

    Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life.... This is neccessary.. This is neccessary... This is neccessry... Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life.

    And the angel of the lord came unto me, snatching me up from my place of slumber. And took me on high, and higher still until we moved to the spaces betwixt the air itself. And he brought me into a vast farmlands of our own midwest. And as we descended, cries of impending doom rose from the soil.
    One thousand, nay a million voices full of fear. And terror possesed me then. And I begged, "Angel of the Lord, what are these tortured screams?"
    And the angel said unto me, "These are the cries of the carrots, the cries of the carrots! You see, Reverend Maynard, tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust."
    And I sprang from my slumber drenched in sweat like the tears of one million terrified brothers and roared, "Hear me now, I have seen the light! They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers!" Can I get an amen? Can I get a hallelujah? Thank you Jesus.

    Life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on life feeds on........ This is necessary.

  • Achems Razor

    @Scott:

    On how to be a free man on the land, it takes us Canadians to figure that stuff out I suppose (LOL)

    You can't or don't want to pay bills? student loans etc: legally!...google..."96 is your fix; world freeman society"

    A disclaimer/Only offering this stuff for educational purposes only (LOL)

  • Epicurus

    @sahota, The moral though experiment shown in the video is a perfect way to determine the validity of stem cells as being "life".

    picture a building and in the building are 1000 stem cells frozen, and a baby....now the building is on fire, you only have time to save one of these things as they are on different floors....which one would you save.

    now keep the stem cells and the baby and replace the burning building with diabetes in the baby....which is more important?

    a group of cells that are NEVER EVER going to go to term to become a child somehow contain this quality called "life" that we arent willing to sacrifice it for something that is ACTUALLY life??

    im soory but that is the epitome of $tupid.

    If everytime a man ejaculates he produces up to 500 millioin sperm, why are they not considered life or at least having the potential for life? why dont we also ban masturbation?

    @Ez, Tool for the win!

  • Randy

    @Epicurus

    I liked your post and your illustrations about the babies... I agree, of course, in principle...

    For me the decision to save the babies would really be dependant on if I had something important planned for that day... I mean, I'ma busy man.... I gots lotsa irons in the fire, man!

    KIDDING! I am a sick aand twisted creature, really... I should not be allowed out among descent folks... BUT, the sanitarium was full up, so...

    Seriously, (semi), there are people who ban masturbation. And those poor people go insane and become Mormons... sad really...

  • ez2b12

    @ Sahota

    Remember that these stem cells are harvested from embryos that have already been scheduled as garbage. If no one uses them what then, they get thrown in the nearest trash deposit. (or what ever is the excepted disposal method for unused/aborted embryos) No one is paying the mothers or fathers of these unwanted or otherwise undesired embryos, so their is no incentive to create more abortions/abandoned embryos.

    I think the storage facility might get paid but, its not their decision to abandon them. It's not the doctor's decision for someone to have an abortion, in fact they try and talk people out of it mostly. So if you are going to get angry or offended direct your protest to the correct place to make a difference. Don't stop sick people from getting better by some misguided and distorted view of what is a fallacy in the first place, that life is some how sacred. If you think life is sacred you should have met my exwife,(insert drum roll). Seriousely though, you are getting upset with the wrong people or procedure if you cling to this belief.

    Protest abortion or embryo storage if you really think life is that sacred or that the embryonic stage is define as life. I personally disagree as I live in a low education high poverty area that is also very religiouse. This means lots of unplanned, single parent, pregnancies that do not get aborted. (why are simple people so prolific)The result is that we have the highest rate of neglected, abused in every way, malnourished children in the US, very sad. These children would have been so much better off never being borned it is unreal.

    The same people that protest the abortions and stem cell research never seem to want to help these kids after their born. I don't see any right wing republican groups down here giving out groceries, establishing day care centers, gauranteeing education for the parents or the kids, trying to create jobs for the parents. No they stop fighting for the kid as soon as he/she is born. Then they start calling them welfare cases and saying that they use the government and do not actually need the few resources that are provided by the state or federal government. Once the kid is born they say,"Oh no if we help them they will never help themselves." Now is this the the way we "value life"? If so I hope they never decide to value mine.

  • Randy

    @EZ who wrote:

    "No they stop fighting for the kid as soon as he/she is born. Then they start calling them welfare cases and saying that they use the government and do not actually need the few resources that are provided by the state or federal government. Once the kid is born they say,"Oh no if we help them they will never help themselves." Now is this the the way we "value life"? If so I hope they never decide to value mine...."

    Indeed! Agreed, all around! Well put. (but in Sahota's defense he didn't actually get upset with us, it was I who got upset with him... because I get cranky around hippies...)

    I would add an old saying of mine:

    "Not every birth is magic; not every death is tragic..."

    (And I'm with Epicurus, your above post was from one of my favorite Tool CD's)

  • ez2b12

    @ Randy and Epicurus

    TOOL!!! I love them man. I've been to every tour except Salival, did they even tour on this cd? I never saw any advertisements for a concert- I would have been their. This band changed my life and the way i play music. I still play a lot of jazz but I also play their style of what i call ritual music. People find it odd that I, the big jazz freak, get into Tool. Its the lyrics coupled with that tribal under current, can't get enough. I think Aenima or Lateralus is my favorite though I love Undertow as well. Any way I am off topic again so I'll stop now, great to meet Tool fans. I knew I liked you guys for a reason.

  • coyote03

    had to chime in :) great post EZ, especially liked the last paragraph, very interesting points brought up!

  • Eric C. Chance

    Anything that begins with Pink Floyd music has got to be good

  • ez2b12

    Randy wrote:“Not every birth is magic; not every death is tragic…”

    I couldn't agree more. Can I use this man, how do you come up with this stuff, its great. Someone on another thread suggested we start saving your qoutes befor you get tired of us and stopping posting here. I'm starting right now, promise I'll give you props everytime I use it.Heres some funny stuff for you, I think its funny anyway.

    Heres one from Rodney Dangerfield that I love.
    "Looked up my family tree and found out I was the sap."

    Steven Wright: " Im so paranoid sometimes I think the guy in front of me is following me, the long way around."

    Steven Wright: "I have a house built out of balsa wood. Sometimes, when I get angry, I go out side, and pick it up. Scare the nieghbor's kids."

    Steven Wright: "I took pictures of all my upstairs rooms and put them on the walls down stairs, so I would never have to go up their again"

    O.k. I know that's horribly off topic but I couldn't resist. Cheers everyone have a great week end. I am.....

  • ez2b12

    I'm stealing the Mormon joke as well, just read it and I'm on the floor.

  • Krissto

    whether or not we are the only life form in the universe with conscious and reason, we are a matter of laughter....

  • sahota

    thanks for well educated comments, I think I should change my mind about stem cell research but (sorry for being off topic)

    @ Randy-1-' even vegetarians are responsible for the destruction of whole species and eco systems filled with animals', vegitarian have nothing to do with it, dominace of one animal(human)and increase in the population has everything to do with it.
    2-'cows pigs and chickens, never existed in nature until human beings created them, specifically for food.' , I am not sure about it, may be they never existed in current form but chickens are subspecies of Red Jungle Fowl as per wikipedia article.

    If you think it's natural for humans to eat meat, put a three-year-old in a crib with an orange and a live chicken and watch which one he eats and which one he plays with. If you give the same orange and chicken to a young cat of equivalent maturity, it will play with the apple and eagerly kill and eat the chicken, all by itself!

    and have a look at the reult of a report from 'American Society for Clinical Nutrition' about the difference in characteristics of the vegetarians and nonvegetarians-
    1-Smoking rates varied between studies, but in all studies the proportion of smokers was lower among the vegetarians than the nonvegetarians.
    2- In all studies for which data were available, vegetarians had a lower mean body mass index,
    3- a lower percentage of vegetarians were current alcohol users, and
    4- a consistently higher percentage of vegetarians were high exercisers. Variations in level of education between the 2 groups were small and inconsistent.

    Does it show something about the hidden affects of non-vegitarian diet?

  • Randy

    My freind sahota,

    Forgive me for sounding harsh and being blunt with you earlier. I have personal reasons for my frustrations with hippies, and they are not all without compassion.

    That being said, I think we should let all the pigs go and replace them with HIPPIES to use as food!

    Kidding!

    Listen your statemnets show little knowledge of anthropology and paleantology and even epi-genomic evolution. Your quotes are from a biased organization with a hippie agenda, frankly.

    The reason we are the successful animals that we are, (and hopefully not for very much longer!), is that we learned early on that we had to eat EVERYTHING we could get our hands on.

    Animals with specialized diets are far more vulnerable to environmental changes.

    We are 21st century people, walking around with 100,000 year old genes! The cells of our bodies still think we are roaming the savannahs of ancient Africa, avoiding lions and hunting wildebeasts.

    That is why your body stores fat. Why it is so hard to get rid of it. Your body doesn't know from super-markets! All it knows is there is always a famine around the corner, always cold coming... 3 million years of evolution has taught it this. It needs the fat, for the next famine, to keep you alive!

    Easiest way to get fat, meat... easiest way to get complete protiens MEAT! EAT, it screams at you, EAT MORE! EAT EVERYTHING!

    People like you on the savannahs would have starved to death, and probably would have been eaten by another roving tribe of homo sapiens...

    We are all just animals. Primates. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less. No more or less important than any other animal; from the microscopic, to the enormous.

    Finally, everything you eat, veggies included, has been carefully genetically enginnered by our ancient ancestors to be almost completely unique in nature. Through selective breeding and hybridization. That's just a fact.

    But, in nature, that is like winning the lottery! Having another species tend and nurture your species and strengthen its genetic line? Awesome. Ticket to easy street. No more everyday struggle to survive. All they have to do is lay back and breed.

    Eventually you get eaten but so what? That would have happened anyway! This way at least you get free room and board! That's how Nature sees it...

  • Achems Razor

    True stuff, the healthiest diet there is, is the "Paleo Diet" mimics diets of the hunter-gatherer ancestors, meats, seafood, vegetables, and nuts.
    Then you can go romping through the woods with impunity.

    A body needs B12 which is found in meats, not found in veg's. so be careful.

    Genetically engineered? Yes! as a matter of fact, go try the best tasting meat in the world, "besides human flesh which of course is vile and not recommended to eat," at "Old Homestead" in Manhatten only 41.$ for a burger from "Wagyu" imperial cattle from Japan, that are massaged and fed on beer. Or buy a whole carcass from Japan, from 20,000$ to 250,000$

  • Randy

    Even more important, Achem's, is the complete protien, very difficult for vegetarians to achieve.

    A Complete protein includes all essential amino acids the body needs to survive. All flesh has it. The only vegetable that provides it is the miraculous soy-bean.

    You could live on soy-beans alone, if you had to, and many Bhuddists do, (soy-beans and soy-bean products, like tofu, for example...) But, then there is that problem with the specialized diet again...

    And, listen to your body, it is 3 million years old, your brain is very young. There IS another famine coming...

    Now, you can get a complete protien from combinations of veg and grains, like rice and beans. but the point is, harder to get with veg than with meat.

    Finally, not too much meat! And lean meats are best. And of course, plenty of excersise...

    Trust me, I'm a doctor.

  • Achems Razor

    @Randy:

    Yes, lots of exercise, but it depends on nutritional types, either a carb or protein type, yes there are such things.

    Myself am a protein type, can basically live on protein alone, and go down to my optimal weight.

    A killer nowadays is all the high fructose products in most processed foods. And sugar substitutes like aspartame, etc:

    Am also a doctor, well a barefoot doctor (LOL)

  • Charles B.

    I have got to get a Ph.D. or something someday, because it bothers me way to much not be able to say something so totally stupid as "Trust me, I'm a doctor"! :-)

  • Achems Razor

    @Charles B:

    Ha,Ha, well, you are in China right? then you must know what is a barefoot doctor.

  • Wayne

    Long, yet it kept my interest. Some interesting genetic information learned in this one concening the evidence on how we lost 2 chromasomes.
    Refuting the biblical literalists was entertaining and educational, also.
    The internet i rich with knowledge that demonstrates evolution and the advances since Darwin.
    In light of all that knowledge,it is interesting there are still people who refust it.
    I'd like to see a documentary on the how and why these creationists end up reasoning the way they do.
    I think getting into their minds would help in finding a way for them to return to the 21st Century.

  • eireannach666

    @the renowned Randy and Health Guru Achems. J/k guys

    Yeah eating right is a must. I try and eat nothing fried and vegies with everything. I don't do soda often or candy. Don't really do any sweets really, well puntang pie is nice.

    But I find that if you can't reaLly find time to cook and are forced to eat on the run , just don't get on the "Jenny C rank " diet and watch those pounds fly right off. Not to mention the energyboot and enhanced hearing capabilities,"Did he say cop?" Be the first to know when on the JC diet, cuz everyones a cop. Order now a nd get a free pair of false teeth and a lifetime supply to your favorite bubble gum.

    Hey Achems are you a herbivore?
    $

  • Achems Razor

    @eire:

    Herbivore? No, carnivore yes, rarest possible, if I can shoot it or kill it on the plate, even better, (LOL)

    Sometimes an omnivorous also.

  • eireannach666

    Somehow I thought Randy was saying you were. I must have misunderstood. But yeah "Jenny Crank DietL worked for women and men alike everywhere. And heck if the religees want some angles, just stay uon that diet for a few weeks , that will get you some angles and a vision of god, I promise you. A lot o people have achieved some frikin angelic visions this way for centuries.

  • capricious

    haha what a trip. DiscoveringReligion is a buddy of mine on Youtube. I wonder if he know's this is posted up here :D He'd be thrilled I'm sure.

  • Charles B.

    Razor: I spent two years in China, two in Korea (where I am now) and several in the Philippines as of late (where I think I'm headed next). A barefoot doctor is one that knows what to do, but hasn't exactly been to school for it! :-)

    Ok. Funny true story time! My wife had a pap smear (just because it was free at the doctor's practicing clinic)--litterally in our front yard, now. And the result was gram negative diplococcal infection. I told her, "Honey, that medical talk for Clap, and trust me, you don't have Ghannorea!" I went with her to be tested myself as they said "Your husband must be cheating on you" and I let them swab away while telling them, "I'm 100% sure you mixed up the slides with someone else, and ya better go find the other lady who was in the same room as my wife for her sake."

    They asked how I knew so much if I hadn't been to medical school and she told them I read all the time. Sure enough, no clap!

    They were all "doctors" but just graduated. How embarrassing to mix up someone's results. I just never had that "buring" sensation so I was pretty confident all the way around! :-) They encouraged me to attend medical school as it "wasn't too late."

  • ez2b12

    Hey Achem, I need some medical advise myself. I started about two months ago having bad insomnia and when I get to sleep I wake up once every two hours on the dot almost. Even if I get eight hours this way it feels like four. I started meditating and it gets me to sleep most of the time, but I am still waking up every two hours completely, having trouble going back to sleep- most of the time.

    It seems as if, after a few nights of this say five, I get really tired and may actually sleep all the way through for a night, then it all starts over again. I've tried not eating after eight or not drinking anything but water, with no results. Changed my diet, no spicy foods any more, still it doesn't get better.

    Now I have a burn on my leg from a motorcycle accident so its really hard to sleep, getting worse it seems. Thats probably because of the pain from the burn though, it will fade. Its much better today already.(all the skin came off- yuck) If you could give me some advice about my sleeping issue though, that would be great. Anyone can answer if they think they can help, this is getting miserable.

  • Achems Razor

    @Charles B:

    I hear what you are saying. I myself should have been a MD all medical terminology and physiology of the body comes very easy to me.

    If I ever have to see my Doctor I tell him what is wrong with me, and the preferred course of treatment, he loves it. just stands there and writes out my prescription. He very seldom disagrees with my diagnosis.

    @ez2b12:

    I can't help you with diagnosis, you have to see a "real" doctor.
    Poor sleep is often a sign of some medical malaise/malfunctioning and may signal either minor or serious medical or psychiatric disorders.

  • Charles B.

    ez2b12: It isn't sleep apnea is it? Of course, being religous (Christian), I'd advise not "meditating" as I sincerely believe much of that is associated with demonic interations. A clear conscience is the softest pillow; are you inordinately preoccupied with something that is troubling you, such as a life change? Just a thought . . . .

    But, yes, Razor is right, you should see a "real" doctor if it's gotten this bad. Ask him/her about possible allergies that might disrupt sleep as well. It might be something as simple as mold intollerance that is catching up to you.

  • DiscoveringReligion

    Hey everyone! I am responsible for producing this series, "Discovering Religion". This website was just brought to my attention and I am very happy to read all of your comments and critiques.

    When I first started out to produce this series I had a vision of Pink Floyd's "Echos" playing to the first moments of the Big Bang, and it all fell into place from there. =)

    About the narration: At the time this series was produced YouTube had a 10 minute time limit on all uploads, therefore I had to record my narration accordingly. There is so much information to cover in such a short amount of time and I don't want to breakup the series introduction into two parts. However, in subsequent episodes I have done my best to slow the pace. Indeed, now that YouTube has increased the video time limit to 15 minutes I make good use of this extra time by slowing down my narration.

    Several of you have expressed interest in locating scripts of the series, which can be found on facebook. If you do a search within facebook for "Discovering Religion" you can find the page, and the transcripts can be located in the "note" tab. You can also find the link to my facebook page in the "Discovering Religion" channel description on youtube.

    I am very honored to find the comments about my series to be overwhelmingly positive. I have done my very best to produce a high quality documentary in which I objectively present the facts and allow the viewer to decide for themselves. I plan on producing many more episodes and if you enjoy the series please show your support and subscribe to my YouTube channel.

    Also, please join me on facebook and twitter (the links to these sites can be found in the channel description on youtube). I hope my series can spark rational discussions about reality and the nature of our existence. Thank you all for watching and supporting my work. Take care! -- Andy

  • ez2b12

    @ DiscoveringReligion

    It is a honor to have you on the site, in my opinion you did a great job man. I loved the series and will be subscribing to your channel. The ten minute upload limit explains many of the youtube docs having such a break neck speed. There is another one on the site called, Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism, that is twice the speed of yours. I had no trouble with yours after the first episode it seemed to slow enough for me.

    Thanks for taking the time to spread this message about fundamentalism tearing things down. I live in the US where our politics has been taken over by right wing fundamentalists that are destroying this country in my opinion. We have had a good discussion on this site due to your documentary. Someone even admitted they would have to possibly change their mind about stem cell research, good job. We need more voices such as yours, keep up the good work.

  • ez2b12

    @ Achem

    Your always telling me that I have phsycological problems, just kidding. I know I do really but I have no idea what to do about them. No phsycologists worth anything in my area and i don't seem to respond to treatment any way. I come form a simple blue collar back ground, we are just not the type that does well with phsycological counceling and all. As my Dad says, "Whats depression, just get up and stay busy- work it off." His versoin of "walking" it off I suppose.

    Thanks for the advise though, I have an appointment tomorrow to see about this burn, so i can bring it up then- the sleeping issue I mean. Maybe he will give me some good drugs, whew hoo!!

  • Achems Razor

    @DiscoveringReligion:

    You did present a great series, and want to thank you for coming on site, look forward to your ongoing series.

  • Achems Razor

    @Charles B:

    Truly mind boggling, now you say that even meditation is the devils work, demons and all that kids stuff. Is not meditation in the bible? supposed to be good?

  • ez2b12

    @ Achem

    Is it in the bible? I've never heard that or run across it in my studies, could be their though and I missed it. I don't see how or why it could be considered to be connected to the idea of the devil or evil or anything though. It is simply a breathing exercise that helpes me relax, lighten up Charles. Not everything is connected to religion. I would be interested to hear how you think it is connected to satan though, please explain.

    @ Charles

    If it is because it is used in a lot of eastern religions, you must look at the context that they use it in. Most do not believe in a diety or demons at all. They simply explore the different states of conciouseness that we all are capable of entering. They get way too mystical for me but, I can't relate them to the type of religion you practice.

    Besides to be bothered by satan or demons, or what ever it is they do to you, you have to believe in them- in my opinion. I don't believe in any of that super natural mumbo jumbo, demons and satan included. I've never heard of someone that did not believe becoming possessed or getting bothered by ghosts or anything, which makes perfect sense to me. If you don't believe in it your mind will not create it as an excuse for your problems.

    When i was young and dumb I used to look for the super natural. I dared it in every way I could to show its self, played with black magic and all that nonsense, of course I got no results. In my opinion because it doesn't exist, period. My common sense told me that all along, but when you are young you want a romantic and mysteriouse view of reality.

    Unfortunately life turns out to be very repetitive and boring, no magic devils or demons I'm afraid. The trick is to find mysteries that are real in science and physics, works for me any way. I am constantly in awe of these fields of study, along with cosmology. All the mystery or magic I'll ever need, and its real.

  • Achems Razor

    @ez2b12:

    Christian meditation is rooted in the bible. Joshua 1:8, Psalms 1:2
    meditation is mentioned 20 times.

    Christian meditation is called the "lecto divina" since the fourth century.

    To me there is no difference on how a person meditates, you can use use many different ways to achieve your goals.

  • ez2b12

    @ Achem

    I'll check that out man, thanks for the refferences. Sounds sort of interesting, never even heard of "Christian Meditation". I can see why I missed the psalms reference, I never enjoyed studying that book in school. No idea how I over looked it in Joshua though, thought I knew the old testament pretty well. Of course we never looked specifically for meditation references though, just wasn't part of the curriculum.

    Right now I am looking up all references to Lucifer for a paper I am working on. I have found some in Jeremiah, do you know where others are? You could save me some trouble if so.

  • coyote03

    @ DiscoveringReligion

    Amazing job! Looking forward to the other parts in the series :D

  • Achems Razor

    @ez2b12:

    I could only find mention in Isaiah 14:12 NKJ. refers to morning star.

    Lucifer, something else that religee's made up for there repertoire I suppose.

  • ez2b12

    I'm starting to think your right. I was told their was some stuff in Jeremiah but I can't find it. That was the point of my paper though, that the story i've been sold about Lucifer being cast out of heaven all my life, isn't really in the bible at all.

    I have found some very loose refferences to a "fallen" angel but nothing very concrete. I will continue to look though, papers not due till mid-terms. I have to at least find the different parts they base their story from, surely their here some where. Probably don't mention Lucifer by name though or I wold have found them already.

    @ Charles
    Help Charles, I know you know this. Your a preacher right? Where does the story come from? What parts of scripture inspire it? Old testament refferences preferrable, but any will do.

  • TJ

    Impressive, but the title is a bit misleading, as the series deals primarily with evolution and creationism and not religion specifically. Barrels full of good points, though. Must-see for creationists. :)

  • Philonous

    This documentary is probably one of the most well-informed scientific documentaries that actually tried to explain and inform the common people (including myself) about evolution, nature of science, and the controversy with creationism vs. evolution and other unfortunate misconceptions. Unlike many documentaries that simply explains evolution in it's own term, the author of the documentary successfully demonstrated why creationism is plainly unscientific and why it can never fit into the body of evidence and explanation. By meticulously observing discrepancy between creationist beliefs and actual evidence and existing knowledge, he convincingly refuted biblical literalism as being scientifically absurd. (e.g. Noah's ark cannot survive since it must float above mt. Everest, which in turn cannot receive any oxygen).

    He has not only shown the absurdity of creationist beliefs but also argued that science is not a religion or dogma! By pointing out that science is never the final word but only a teleological process of acquiring and improving existing body of knowledge through rigorous investigation through inductive reasoning (reasoning based on probability), the author has vindicated science from creationist accusation. Consequently he has shown how ignorant creationists are about science.

    The Author, unlike Richard Dawkins, actually explains why creationist narratives are plainly wrong, but he has done this in a very modest and humble manner without personally insulting religions with hostility. Through rationality, civility, and objectivity the Author has behaved himself formally (occasionally being informal but with good purpose), as should be expected of any intelligent and rational person who seeks to explain, rather than marginalizing, the issues to both theists and non-theists.

    By admitting that science is a humane, not celestial, process of knowledge that is fallible but capable of improvement, the Author has shown that the real dogmatists are not the scientists but the creationists. As the author puts it beautifully (I am paraphrasing)"Creationists keep their theories unchanged by change the evidence, but scientists change their theories to accommodate for evidence".

    The author demonstrates what real science should be, and shows that creationism falls short of that standard.

  • capricious

    Hopefully I'll see you around here more DR. There is always great discussion and Vlatko is excellent about adding new content.

    Congratulations once again on your 'feature' here :D

    -YourBrainOnReligion

  • Enzo

    @ez2b12

    Thought I'll try and help you out. Lucifer is latin for the light bearer/ morning star and many Christians consider him to be either the devil himself or a fallen angel. The whole concept of the devil has somewhat developed overtime. The term Satan refers to the one known as the accuser in ancient Hebrew beliefs and was not considered something of an evil entity. The role of the satan was to simply point out the misdeeds of man to God and therefore it can be assumed he held a seat in the heavenly realms. The concept of the devil being the ultimate enemy of man and god is developed fully in the new testament, with the exploits of Jesus and the revelation of John. Within the book of Revelation we are told that the serpent from the garden of Eden is in fact the ultimate enemy of man, the devil, and his actions have all been geared towards having dominion over God's creation. That's all I can think of from memory. Ill read up and dig up more info.

  • Charles B.

    I have about 2 minutes before class. Yes, "meditation" is mentioned in the Bible (KJV), but it's over "God's word" day and night, such as "dwelling on." "Meditation" as we define the word now has a lot of different connotations and we think of like Buddhist monks in a trance. The two are not quite the same; for one thing, the source of the inspiration is different (my opinion). I'll read comments later more thoroughly as I have time. Busy day. This is just a flash comment!

    Razor: You're sharp today!

  • ez2b12

    @ Enzo

    Thanks for the info. I had forgotten about that part of John's Revelations. So you are saying the name Lucifer never appears in the bible? I used to think it did but now, I don't know. I would have sworn I read about an angel named Lucifer, but maybe it wasn't in the bible but some other religiouse text from when I was in college before. I knew that the story of him getting cast out wasn't really spelled out but I thought the name did come from the bible. I can use that revelations reference though, thanks for the reminder. If you find anything else about an angel getting expelled from heaven, let me know. I need to check out Isaiah 14:12 as Achem suggested, its about morning star which like you said means Lucifer in Latin- this may be what I am remembering.

  • Achems Razor

    @ez2b12:

    More info. on lucifer , we have been discussing the same on "Through the wormhole-is there a creator" doc. also. @Epic: has some good stuff on the subject.

  • Achems Razor

    @Charles B:

    It matters not what connotations you use for meditation there are many different ways to achieve the desired benefits. Meditation is not considered in any way anything to do with any of your so called demons that seem to be always living with you, or seem to be uppermost in your mind.
    Meditation is a relaxation of the mind and body. Not trying to conjure up so called evil spirits.

  • Connie

    Hey guys try using a biblical Concordance or use one online. That way you will catch what was written in Greek and Aramaic and lesson chances of lost words in different translations
    Sorry I could of helped more on this today but wasn't aware of the postings till late tonight. Wow you guys were busy bees

  • Charles B.

    Razor: Well, I would disagree about the harmlessness of meditation. If demons are real (Hey! You believe in aliens! Why can't I believe in demons?), then they have roles to play and are active in some ways. My ex-Buddhist friend (now Christian) nearly died while meditating, and was attacked by demonic entities while he was in an out-of-body state. It really scared him and he asked me for help and guidence.

    Razor, You know how much I detest the New Age as there is a "spirit" there that is not in kinship with my own. Don't be so narrow minded in thinking that only what can be seen with the eyes is the only real aspect to life.

    Besides, doesn't a lot of meditation actually encourage "spirit guides" to come help you? Who do you think they are if not demonic? To say they are only our own mind's constructs is overly simplistic.

    Peace to you.

    ez2b12: Concerning the topic of Satan: Achem's seems most correct in the definitions of Satan or "Lucifer". What you have to keep in mind is the law of "double reference," such as in the Old Testament references to "Lucifer" and the king of was it Babylon? I thought it was a different king. Anyway, it's double reference to both characters, that particular king and Satan.

    Satan is sometimes called a "dragon" etc. and so you have to piece together the parts to get the whole concerning his expulsion from Heaven and his rolls now and in the distant past and in the future. I can research the topic and make a short post, but I have busy days too.

    Note: The word "Anti-Christ" is never used in the Book of Revelation either. It's assumed who he is by his description. The same is mostly true of Satan as well. Wisdom is needed in the study of such topics.

    Peace to you!

    Charles B.

  • Randy

    Well, you guys really went off on a tangeant in my absence. I can't leave you alone for a minute!

    Now, you are talking about my Boy Satan, has everyone forgotten that I was a Satanic Priest for awhile there in the whacky seventies? (I'm still a minister in several whacky religions, so I could be called Reverend Randy...) I know everything about that kooky dude!

    It's a fun myth, nothing more.

  • Sadie the Celt

    Here's a little anecdote which may interest you....some years ago I enrolled at University to do a degree (in Religion and other subjects - it was a 'joint honours') - anyway, when we were having our very first Religious studies class, there were way too many students - we couldnt fit in the classroom! there were maybe 40 students, but only say 20 chairs, I was worried because Dr. Fowler was getting us to 'bw' chairs from anywhere and everywhere. I said something like 'what are we goig to do?' - and she replied with a wink 'dont worry about it, give it a few weeks and we will have chairs to spare'. She was right, within just a couple of weeks over 50% of the class had given up. and by the end of the 1st semester - there was just 15 left. The students that had left were the ones who were devout believers in whatever Faith they followed, those of us that were left, were the inquisitive ones, I had an open mind then, and I still do today. and yes, I got my BA

  • Randy

    And EZ, my freind! Don't listen to these hippies. I dropped out of medical school but I do have some REAL AMA approved medical training!

    First, a real doctor would get lifestyle and environment questions out of the way:

    1) Alchohol consumption, booze can disrupt sleep patterns, nuff said. If you drink regularly, (no judgement!), then try stopping for 30 days, that should reset your sleep pattern. (If you can't then you have ANOTHER problem...)

    2) Smoking, if you are a new smoker, that could keep you awake. If you smoke regularly, any disruption in your use, (cutting down, smoking more, etc), would keep you awake, (again, no judgement!)

    3) Caffeine and other stimulants. These can stay in the body for hours after use. Try and not take any caffiene after 2:00 in the afternoon. Avoid those horrible "energy drinks", in my opinion, they are like drinking death... but there are no hard studies yet!

    4) Sleeping environment, quiet and dark. Try to avoid sleeping with pets, it's cute, but they can definietely keep you from sleeping through the night. Also, and this is a personal preference that has some studies behind it, a neat, well ordered sleeping environment helps.

    5) That burn concerns me. Are you keeping it clean and dressed? Do me a favor and take your temerature. If it is even a single point above normal for you, go to a doctor for some anti-biotics. Even if you do not feel sick, a covert or "occult" bacterial infection can definitely disrupt sleep, and cause serious problems down the road.

    If it is depression, then that is another kettle of fish, of course. Here is an off the cuff thing that might help. Something I discovered in my psych rotations: if your depression is NOT physiological, then, usually, it is the result of repressed rage/anger. Maybe if you figured out what you are angry about but are afraid to express?

    My guess... father issues? Sorry, if I am out of line...

  • Sadie the Celt

    I once visited a Buddhist meditation centre called 'Lam Rim' and was finding it very very difficult to meditate so my tutor (Dr Norton) suggested that I think about the sound of one hand clapping................kept me quiet for hours!

    seriously though, I think its got a lot to do with ones level of conciousness, dont you think?

  • Charles B.

    Dr. Randy: Good grief! Even your infections are "occult" related! I must say in all my readings, that's the first time I've ever heard that word used that way. But, I suspect it's probably an accurate usage.

    Precisely what DID you do as a Satanic priest, if you can tell me without compromising your witness protection program status . . . JK by the way (hopefully). ;-)

    If I were there in Canada, I'm sure we'd be interesting good friends as I've always liked excentric rather odd humored people . . . . something just tells me that the shoe fits in your case!

  • Randy

    We talked about this at length before, Charles. It's a silly religion, full of chubby D&D nerds and metal-heads who like to dress up in black robes and play Hallowe'en everyday...

    I mean there is a real philosophy in the works of Anton LeVay, but, it is NOT the all powerful organization you imagine it to be. It's been losing ground since the 70's.

    It's a joke. Any one who tells you different? Is lying to impress you or your pastor. Trust me...

    Also, I am American. I'm from Jersey, yo!

  • Charles B.

    Oh, man! My world has been shattered! I thought you were Canadian! You're just not half as much interesting now that you say it's just all "Halloween" and from Jersey, USA. I thought all you guys were ganging up on me from Canada! No goat's blood stories? No possessions? Good bye to you, boring man!

  • Connie

    @ Vlatko
    I've been busy other places inviting them to TDF The recent subject is on Muslims indoctrinating into other cultures. My view point is that it never works for the Muslims always end up trying to over dominate after their masses out weigh the consensus.
    You have a couple of Doc's that support that. So if you come across more on Muslim you might want to add them to your list.
    Thanks,I hope you and the Mrs. have made more time to watch your own Doc's :-) We Love Ya's HAve a great week.

  • Randy

    @Charles B.

    I have no idea why you would think I was from Canada. For MONTHS we have talked about things like "my country USA", "Constitution of the US" etc. etc... in regards to your religion destroying it...

    It's all over this site, actually... you should really have your reading comprehension skills checked, perhaps... or your memory...

  • http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/about/ Vlatko

    Thanks @Connie. I'll see what can I do about those doc's. Have a great week too.

    @Charles B. Hahaha. It seems they're "ganging up on you" from all over the world.

  • Charles B.

    Dr. Randy: I guess sometimes we are just "blind" to the obvious when we have something already in our mind as a construct. Amazing, isn't it? Do you suppose we all do that to some extent and just don't realize it? I have a pretty good memeory, but it's probably not as good as yours to be honest. I wanted to come visit you when I thought you lived in Canada but Jersey just doesn't interest me that much. Sorry!

    Peace to you.

  • Achems Razor

    @Charles B:

    The only demon that I know about is this moderation system,
    Going to re-write this again, Please omit previous post, Vlatko.

    Never said that I believe in "Aliens" but do not discount it.

    Occult infection terminology means "hidden infection" one with no symptoms.

    That is true, us Canadians are interesting, but youse" should not discount our "Jersey boy".
    He is by far the most interesting person on this site.

    What is it like to always live with demons Charles, do you look over your shoulder constantly? Are you scared of dark damp basements?
    do you have to sleep with a night-lite on? just curious.

    Peace.

  • Randy

    @Achems

    Thank you! But, as flattering as that is, I certainly can't agree that I am the most interesting person on the site...

    Got any mirrors at your place?

    @Charles

    Well, of course, you ain't interested in Jersey! No body is really... except that those two shows are so popular with the TV-addled American crowd... "New Jerset Houswives..." and "Jersey Shore..."

    But, if you like gangsters, the occasional toxic waste dump, and Atlantic City, (kind of a combo of the former two items...), well, we have a lot to offer...

    I'm just sayin'

  • ez2b12

    @ Randy

    Thanks for the advise man. I took my temp this morning and it was 101. Went to the hospital cause the burn is looking nasty, I had an infection starting in the burn. They gave me antibiotics and some kind of cream called silvadene, also some kind of spray that numbs it- what a relief. The pain was getting unmanagable.

    As far as my sleeping issue, they say it is probably depression and yes it does have to do with some father issues. I don't want to get into it further than that but, thanks for your concern. You wern't out of line at all. Your a good doctor man, even all the way from Jersey.

    @ Everyone

    Thanks for all the info. on the Lucifer myth. I have finally found enough sources, thanks to you guys, to finish the paper. As far as bible verses I am using Isaiah 14:12 and some of Revalations. I have also been told to look in Luke but do not have the chapter or verse, I'll get it though. The link Enzo provided is a good source, you have to wade through all the different postings but some are really good. Thanks again to everyone, you guys are great.

  • ez2b12

    @ Randy

    We also have a mutual hate of hippies in common. Have you ever seen the episode of southpark were Cartman has the hippies in his basement? It's halariouse man, I love it. I used to "think" I was a hippie, but in reality I never really bought their cheap and simplistic approach, I just liked alot of their music. "Peace and Love" sounds great, but how do we acheive it? That is one of my biggest problems with them, they always give you a bunch of ends with no means to achieve them, anyone can do that. The issue comes in when you try to figure out "how".Plus they don't bath- yuck!

  • Randy

    EZ,

    Excellent! I'm so glad you got that taken care of! I'm not familiar with silvadene, are you sure it's not sulfadene? Whatever, though... at least you got it workin'!

    As far as depression, listen: don't fall right away into the anti-dperessant drugs. I don't like em, I don't think they actually do anything--- some people say they help... I think it's a placebo effect, but...

    Also, don't let the media and doctors guilt you into thinking you should be happy all the time... that's impossible and usually actually causes more depression! (A vicious cycle).

    It's OK to get sad once in awhile... it's ok to get depressed... happiness and joy are just as unnatural a state as sadness or anger!

    Nature always seeks a relaxed state, that is a scientific law, (look it up, if you are not familiar)

    Worry if the depression debilitates you, keeps you from functioning, or if it lasts more than, say, a month... then maybe talk to somebody... but do try to avoid those drugsas long as you can!

  • Sadie the Celt

    @ Charles B. soooo thats almost filled me in with your history Chas! thanks for telling me - gosh you have certainley done some living!..sounds very much as if you have landed on your feet - and thats wonderful.
    Im not a Christian but I am a good listener. I am fond of Buddhism, and I tend to follow a lot of their teachings, without knowing. I can honestly say that (in my opinion) the two BIGGEST downfalls of man are "EGO" & "GREED" - and so I try always to act without ego - and Im never greedy. It was hard going for a while - as I would have to always ask myself 'am I doing this to show off?' - or 'am I doing this solely for money?' or 'am I doing this 'because I bloody well can?!'.....I would always ask myself such questions when making major decisions. then, it just came naturally & subconciously.
    I find that this simple pricipal just about 'does it' for me - if I had to devote my life studying gospels, id go mental. I lead my own path, and I do what I think is right - whilst considering others, & it works for me!
    having said that, I find your enthusiasm captivating.....(respect)
    but tell me, how do you manage to study theology with such firm beliefs Charles? as I mentioned earlier, the staunch believers did not make it past the first semester...due to their inability to think 'outside of the box' - I only graduated because I wanted to know everything about every religion including atheism, agnosticism and esoterical religions such as Sufism and the like.
    Surely, someone as firmly rooted as yourself in your Christian belief would not be able to take this knowledge on board?
    Im only asking - because it interests me. did you study other religions for your degree? - how did you find it? - my degree was not in theology, but in Religious Studies (also Philosophy and History) - would you say the two are different from each other Charles? Im interested in your opinions, whatever they are! Regards, SQ

  • ez2b12

    2 Randy

    Yeah, I agree about the guilt trip they try and push on you and staying off the drugs for as long as I can. I have only been depressed to the point that it interferes with normal life for about two months. My dad is getting older and not able to function like he used to, he is 78 so it is to be expected. We didn't get along when I was younger but have finally been able to have a good relationship since I got myself off everything and straightened up.

    So i am dealing with learning how to live life without being hi as a kite all the time and his inevitable demise at the same time. The only reason I bring it up is to say, of course I am depressed. It's only normal for my situation so I think it will pass with time. They recommended prozac, of course. I let her write the script but I am not filling it. If this doesn't pass in a few more months or gets worse I'll try and find someone to talk to, but drugs will be the last step. I have had enough drugs in my system, trust me.

    Heres what the little piece of paper they give you with your script says about the cream I am using.

    Silvadene-Silver sulfadiazine, a sulfa drug, is used to prevent and treat infections of second- and third-degree burns. It kills a wide variety of bacteria. This
    medication is sometimes prescribed for other uses;

  • Randy

    Ah, yes, I assumed it was a sulfa-drug, it just had a different name back in my day...

    I'm sorry to hear about your dad. I lost both my parents years ago, and even though I never liked them all that much... it was still hard...

    Um, here is something: keep in mind that some, (if not most!), of the greatest works of art, music and literature in the world, were born out of depression. It can be a very creative place!

  • ez2b12

    @ Randy

    Very true, about it being a creative state. I am a musician and I have used depression in the past as inspiration. Usually I don't actually create while in the state of depression though, its afterwards when I cheer up that I reflect and get something out of it. While in the actual state I really don't have enough interest in anything to get up and even play. School helps as it keeps you busy whether you want it to or not.

    I'll be fine though I just need time to adjust to sobriety and the idea of losing dad. The way I see it as far as the sobriety thing goes, for every day I spent in a euphoric drug induced slumber- I will spend one wide awake and unhappy. When a balance is achieved this will be over. I've been clean for about one year so I have a ways to go. But I brought it on myself, no ones fault but mine and I am handling it well. Thanks again for your good advise.

  • Sadie the Celt

    @ez2b12
    I had terrible time getting off drugs, Im still vulnerable, but I found that initially NOTHING that my Doctor gave me would touch me, i.e, I was probably so toxic inside....this eventually subsides, and (believe it or not) the old fashioned remedies or 'over the counter' medicines are now hitting me harder and harder!
    try eating a pile of wild lettuce - contains lodinum, derivative of laudinum, also raw onion will knock you out (and anyone else you happen to be sleeping with)
    and you cant beat good old anti-histamines, I can easily obtain them at chemists in UK...any of these should get you counting sheep! take it easy tiger! Sade ps I hope Dr Randy agrees!

  • Randy

    Yes, Sadie, anit-histamines can have SOME use as a sleep aid. In fact, OTC sleeping aids like Sominex or Unisom, use diphenhydramine as their main ingredient, also used in cold and flu meds...

    However, it's not effective for more than 30% of patients. For me, for example, they make me drowsy, but unable to sleep at all... fine, I guess if you want to drool in front of the TV until dawn... LOL!

    I haven't heard of your other remedies, but I can say that Valerian root, or Valerian tea has been established by your own UK doctors to be a very safe and effective natural sleep aid. Here in the US, it's hard to find, but it is very relaxing stuff.

  • Achems Razor

    Also try "Chamomile tea", will knock you out. very relaxing and safe.

    Took it by error once in a high profile meeting, bad mistake. Was like a space zombie.

  • ez2b12

    Thanx one and all, good ideas. We have kind of hi-jacked this thread though. Way off topic. Thanks for all your suggestions and concern, its nice to meet level headed people that want to help. I'll take the blame for getting us off track, sorry Vlatko. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

  • Connie

    Hi Everyone,

    I should also add This DOC IS FABULOUS!! However I to am still watching it over and over to catch all the info.
    This is a Doc to be studied and measured. Its not some quick thought up ideas that are stretched out to fit the length of a film. AWESOME JOB Creating it And AWESOME JOB finding it!

    I also would like to watch more of this guys coming films.
    There is a couple things I would differ with due to the balances of his studies but I thought 97 % was a good analyses and He did a great job bringing all the arguments to the table for a full range view. AWESOME FILM!

    ps Hi RANDY ENZO ACHEMS EZ@b12 CApicious Celtic girl erie 666 wayne epicuios Charles B, coyote, eric,scott olo erin kristo,sohoto John Faith Dai
    Hope I didnt miss anyone !

  • WTC7

    Gee, what a come-back... :-)

    Hi Connie, I'm an old (new to you) girl on the site, wouldn't you like to greet me too? :-)

  • Connie

    Well Hello @ WTC7

    From one old gal to another :-) Of coarse I'd like to greet you who wouldnt want to greet that warm welcome smile :-)
    Tell me a bit of yourself. what is your favorite Docs and interests? Me I like most everything.

  • WTC7

    Well, I am interested in a lot of things and watched many docs on this site, but I devote most of my free time to ufo & 911 related ones. My professional background is politics and international relations and I work for the International Red Cross. Hope that suffices :-).

    Tell me a bit about yourself.

  • ez2b12

    Hey Connie, good to see you back. I noticed you kind of dropped out of the scene their for awhile. Glad you didn't stay gone long. There has been some great docs since you were last here, or maybe you've been silently watching, holding your posts for a dramatic entrance. If so you achieved it well.

    Gotta run I am temporarily on the injured list, motorcycle wreck. I'm alright but I can't take pain meds due to- well just leave it their- I can't take them so it hurts pretty bad and is really distracting. I'm gonna try and get some sleep- wish me luck.

  • Connie

    @ ez2b12

    Hi ez sorry to hear about your accident I'm glad your here to tell about it.
    I have been here sorta I have alot of post readings to catch up on But I have not missed out on the Docs, NO WAY NO HOW :-) There are so many great docs to watch. I'm still watching 4-5 at a time lol
    Thanks for the welcome back. Hey ez you should see the entrance i make when I have clothes on too LOL Just kidding!

  • Connie

    @ WTC7
    oops I didnt mean to sound like I wanted credentials :-)
    But glad you gave them wow how interesting.

    Umm me ? AHH how can I glorify a Jill of all trades but master to none so I can at least get catorgorized close to yours ? Hmm a good politician should know how to do it.

    Say do you know anything more about the woman in afganistan that they have next to be stoned? I am trying everything I can to keep her name going around so she wont be forgotten. This is the closet they have come so far to fighting to end stoning. She haunts me day and night I feel so helpless all I can do is send her love and courage thru prayers and hope she receives them. I will never forget her. nor her brave children and brave lawyer who is now in hiding.

  • Connie

    Oh my favorite docs are History, that deals with the pschological mindframe and spiritual/religious phenomonen I guess the the History and science of what make people react and think. I am a song writer and I study things of heart and mindframe and I enjoy meditating on a subject until i understand it enough to feel it in my heart and then when my heart is full I grab my pen and guitar and the song comes out. I never know what the ong will be about. Sometimes I think I am writing from one view but when its done it could mean the total opposite. Its always complete and different and Its amzinglly fun to see the finished creation from only a single thought. I wonder if that is catorgorized under creationalism, spiritualism, or sciencetism or all three? :-)

  • glndl

    he spoke too fast. miss a lotofwhat he was trying to say

  • Galloway Grumblefield

    Thoroughly engaging and educational. And you can never make fun of Kirk Cameron too much.

  • QueenBee

    @DR: Awesome job on your documentary, and very coherent explanation of the fallacies creationists propagate.

    @ Galloway Grumblefield: I agree...you can never make too much fun of Kirk Cameron. I'd like to add Banana Man to the list--that bit of creationist erotica was too much for me, I was laughing my @ss off! /facepalm

  • http://codylanguages.tumblr.com/ Cody Dudgeon

    I?like how Islam is just thrown in with Judaism and Christianity.

    The Qur'an actually mentions Evolution many times.
    It says that God Created Life from non-organic material into a single celled organism and over time life became more complex until Adam, the first modern human, came to be.

    The Qur'an corrects the Bible by saying that there was no world wide flood, but it was a local flood.

    80% of what the Qur'an says is proven by science.
    the things that are not would be the existence of God, Revelation, etc.

    This guy should've read the Qur'an before criticizing it, before lumping Islam together with the two other Abrahamic faiths.

  • Cygnus

    I watched the documentary with interest bcz i read a few of the comments first. I must be one of the people you class as a creationist bcz i do believe in creation. But i must say my beliefs are quite different to what some seem to think. The age of the earth ? although the beginning of genesis talks about the "days" of creation,i myself have never actually thought of them as being literal 24 hour periods. I heard people say things like back in the day,or back in Shakespeare's day, i never thought he only lived 24 hours, genesis 2:4 says the history of the heavens and the earth....in the "day" that the lord god made the heaven and the earth. in that verse all creative days are summed up as one. again not 24 hours.

    Also the narrator said we use the scripture saying a day with you as a thousand years. I never thought that was literal either. If you read the book of Hebrews it explains that the seventh day,the day in which god started to rest was still not ended,that seventh day started long long before the book of Hebrews was written yet Paul who was meant to be the writer of that letter was still waiting to enter into that day of rest and the seventh rest day has still not ended, so how long are the days ? not 24 hours,not a thousand years, surely they are unspecified lengths of time that have been summed up as days. its pretty obvious the earth is billions of years old the solar system and universe even older. There are people in this world that believe all kinds of things,some apparently do think the days are 24 hours, but not everyone,some are more reasonable.

    the documentary has chosen to tar everyone who believes in god with the same brush,that is more unreasonable than believing in the 7 days of creation being 24 hours.Thats one of the weakest documentaries i have seen so far, the guy take the scriptures tell us what he says creationists believe,tell us what he says the scriptures mean.then tries to say thats why we are wrong.I believe things evolve too,i have to,i believe in 1 Adam,1 Adam whose descendants changed as they spread out in the earth making all the other races, they would have needed to change.to make black people,white people,Chinese people and so on.Animals evolve too,how could they not ? Believing the first ones where created does not mean they can not change to suit their environment.

    I think this guy has presented a very good argument for HIMSELF to believe he is descended from apes.And the reason i say for HIMSELF is bcz he sound more like he is convincing himself of his argument.certainly he does not convince me,and i think he has chose the easiest target bcz he is worried there actually might be a god he needs to submit too. Ive watched many documentaries about evolution but never have i heard someone so desperate to prove his point.

  • http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/about/ Vlatko

    Ok @Cygnus, to sum up. You BELIEVE that when God created everything in 6 days he didn't mean 6x24hrs periods, but 6 undefined periods of time. Is there any evidence for your claim? If so (other than non-literal interpretation of the Bible) please share it with us.

    You believe that God created humans (Adam) and from there people spread forming different races etc. So again do you have any evidence for this (other than non-literal interpretation of the Bible). If so share it with us please.

    To spear you from doing Google research in attempt to offer links to creationists sites, I'll tell you that there isn't any evidence at all for the above (your claims). Simply you choose to BELIEVE in those fairy tales. Maybe you should make a documentary as a counter argument and let viewers decide what do you have.

  • Randy

    @Vlatko

    *Randy whistles and applauds*

  • cygnus

    Yes Vlatko i do believe it. I watched a documentary on your own site here that seemed to offer pretty good evidence that the human race all came from 1 man, it was some kind of DNA thing they used to prove we all came from this one man.

    I think it was the search for Adam, and then they used some kind of technique to recreate his face. About the 6 days. In my first post i said about how the verse in genesis at chapter 2 verse 4. Assuming its the same guy writing chapter 2 as who wrote chapter 1 he says:4 This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time of their being created, in the "day" that the lord God made earth and heaven. He definitely calls all 6 days 1 day, its not a link to another site, its just what it says, i don't need another site to defend what i believe in, i don't need quotes from other people either.

    If what i believe don't hold water then I should believe something else. Also i said about the seventh day its still running now, it has not ended. Did you not notice God DID NOT say. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a seventh day? He did not say it like he did for all the other days bcz it has not ended. You don't need a link to another site just read it. then have a look at Hebrews, its not long. 30 mins you could read it. i did not get any of this from other sites, i just read it.

    I like to read things watch things and make my own mind up, I tend to think that creating the world in 6x24 hours is crazy really, when the bible says this is the history of the earth in the "day" the lord god made it.... it makes me think the author is trying to show that the the 6 days are not literal, or why would he then call all 6 of then a "day". Don't that make more sense than 6 literal 24 hour periods? bcz i think that is what it is meant to mean. i think the writer of genesis is trying to tell us they are creative periods.

  • Randy

    Would anyone else like to explain mitochondrial DNA to cygnus?

    Also, the "bottle neck" of human evolution, when we came this close to a mass extinction?

    (There were less than 10,000 human beings on the entire planet for a few centuries there... Ice Ages, they are a b*tch...)

  • Enzo

    @ Cygnus
    so what your saying in a nutshell is that the bible is open to interpretation and not everything should be taken as literal truth?....

  • iesika

    I wish someone on that stage had a handy photo of an archeopteryx fossil to show the crocoduck guy.

    I really can't understand the people who say there are no transitional fossils. *Every* fossil is a transitional fossil, just as every inch of a tree's trunk and branches are transitional from the initial sprout to the outermost leaves and twigs.

  • iesika

    Why all the focus on Neanderthals? They aren't our ancestors. He'd have been better off focusing on a hominid that's our actual predecessor.

  • rich miller

    Two Goldfish in a tank
    One says 'i'll drive' the other, 'ok i'll man the turret'

    Sorry but I freekin love that joke

  • Farabi

    saw the first episode. the narrator is way too fast for me, so I had to watch it twice. seems to be a good doc, the scenes went great with the narration. hope to watch the rest of it.

  • iesika

    There *may* have been some genetic mixing - that isn't the same as being descended from them. It also doesn't apply to non-Europeans at all.

    Overall, I enjoyed this documentary series and found it to be pretty good, but I feel the presenter's point could have been made better if he'd focused on an undisputed ancestor of modern humans during that segment.

  • Hesus

    No iesika it did happen... and I find that fascinating. In the article it says that

    ?The absence of Neanderthal DNA in the genomes of the two present-day Africans indicates that interbreeding occurred after some root population of early modern humans left Africa but before the species evolved into distinct groups in Europe and Asia.?

    So many humans that ventured out of Africa have neanderthal DNA. It seems that africans are the ?pure? race as they did not interbreed with neanderthals. Europeans, Asians etc. have neanderthals as ancestors. Anyway didnt really want to make it an issue, I just found it interesting.

  • joe

    I AM SO DISCUSSED BY THERE ANGELIC REASON FOR STEM CELL RESEARCH AND EVERY LAW THAT WAS OPENED FOR A GOOD REASON BUT FAILED TO MENTION THE POWER CHANGES HANDS ALL THE TIME AND CAN BE USED UN CHECK FOR ANYTHING ELSE,WHAT ABOUT PSHYCOLOGY AND THE ABUSED AND EXPERIMENTS USED AGAINST PEOPLE BEHIND CLOSE DOORS NOW AND IN HISTORY WHAT ABOUT ORGAN TRANSPLANT,WITH SO MANY POOR IN INDIA ARE EXPLOITED,GIVING UP ONE OF THERE KIDNEYS TO PAY THERE DEBT THAT THEY CAN NEVER TRULY GET OUT OR THE SLAUGHTER OF REMOTE CHINESE VILLAGE WERE THE SMALLL VILLAGE TS EXECUTED FOR SOME LAME REASON AND THERE ORGANS SOLD IN THR BLACK MARKETMWHAT ABOUT ARE CUURRENT DRUG INDUSTRIES WITH ITS CONTROL AND CORRUPTION NOW WITH PRICING AND COVER UP OF DANGERIOUS SIDE EFFECTS FOR THE CAUSE OF PROFFIT NOT THE ANGELIC REASON IT WAS FIRST CONTROLED UNDER STRICT GUIDE LINES IN THE HANDS OF FEW OVER MANY FOR MANS SAFTY NOW THE INDUSTRY DOES THE OPOSITE AND THE REASON IT TOOK POWER AND CONTROL OF,WHAT THE HELL HE S MAKING BARAK OBAMA A SAVIOUR WHAT A BUNCH GARBGE JUST ASK THE NURSE WHO WENT ON A MAJOR RADIO STATIONT EXPLAIN THE EMOTIONAL AND PSHYCOLOGICAL ABUSE SHE SUFFERED WHEN A LATE TERM ABORTION WAS PERFORMED ON A BABY WITH DOWN SYNDROM AND CAME OUT ALIVE AND SHE COULD ATTEND TO IT OR COMFORT IT AND HAD TO WATCH IT FROM A DISTANT DIE A SLOW DEATH THAT TOOK 45 MINUTES BECAUSE OF A LAW BARAK ENFORCED IN CHICAGO/ILLINOIS IN REGUARDS TO LATE TERM ABORTION,BY LAW THIS WAS NOT A HUMAN BEING,HEY WHY DONT YOUUSED THE ORGANS OF ABORTED BABIES SINCE THEY ARE GOING TO BE THROWN AWAY ANY WAYS,NOT ALL SCIENCE IS GOOD ANYWAYS ALOT IS USED FOR EVIL JUST LOOK AT CHEMICAL WAR FARE BOMBS ECT A FEW CAN KILL THOUSANDS AT A TIME WITH NO PROTECTION AGAINST IT, WHEN BOTH SIDES HAD FIST WAR WAS FAIR WHEN BOTH SIDES HAD GUNS WAR WAS FAIR,BUT NOW ITS THE RICHER COUNTRIES AND BETTER TECHNOLOGY THAT HAVE POWER OVER MANY AND THE LIVES OF MANY OVER ONE MAN WITH A BOTTON TO PRESSMM I AM INSULTED WITH THIS GUY BECAUSE I CAN SEE THE HYPOCRACY AND EVIL HES PUSHING FOR RIGHT THROUGH HIS SEAMING ANTI GOD PROJECTION AS IF MANY CHRISTIONS ARE NOT MORAL THINKERS AND HIS PRO SCIENCE IS, AND I AM NOT CHRISTIAN BUT ILL PUT MY TRUST IN THE HANDS ON SOUND CHRISTION THEN SOMEONE LIKE HIM POWERS AND SYSTEM HAVE CHANGE PLACES AND HANDS MANY TIMES AND NO ONE HAS A CONSISTED MORAL STREAK IN ITS HISTORY ONE REASON WE WONT ALLOW NUCLEUR WEAPONS WITH GOVERNMENTS THAT ARE UNSTABLE AND CAN CHANGE HANDS,WE THE ONLY COUNTRY WERE THE G PRESIDENT GOES NOT HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL OVER ATOMIC WEAPONS I FEEL SICK WHEN I HEAR HIS SO CALL REASONING BECAUSE I SEE RHE TRUTH AND EVIL RIGHT DOWN THE ROAD AND AWARE OF THE CUURANT CORRUPTION GOING ON NOW AND THE UNBALANCE IT HAS CREATED IN THE WORLD NOW HIS SQEAKY CLEAN PICTURE MAKES ME FEEL SICK INSIDE AND TWISTED STATMENTS WE HAVE ENOUGH CORRUPTION NOW WITH THE OPEN ON SET OF ABORTION AND ABUSE OF IT AS WELL AS AS ARE CRIMINAL JUSTICED SYSTEM AND ARE LAW SUTE SYSTEM THAT OVER BURDENS US ALL FINACIALLY AS WELL AS MORALITY AND PEACE OF MIND WE ARE OPEN TO HAVING ARE CHILDREN RIPPED AWAY ROM US RIGHT UNDER ARE EYES GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE SQEAKY CLEAN REASONS THESE LAWS WERE IMPLAMENTED AND THE CORRUPTION THAT FOLLOW ,GETTING RID OF THE DEATH PENTALY ON HUMANITARIAN GROUNDS AND WE PAY THE NEXT 30 OR FOURTY YEARS WITH ARE TAX MONEY PLUS THEY CAN USE UP ARE JUSTICE SYSTEM AT OUR EXPENCE AND ARE LET OUT BECAUS OF A FAULTY PAROL BOARD AT OUR EXPENCE AND ARE LET OUT EARLY BECAUSE OVER CROWDING TO ABUSE US ALL OVER GAIND IN THE NAME OF HUMAN MORALITY MANT ARE GIVEN MORE OF OUR TAX MONEY THEN THOSE POOR WHO HAVE NOT HURT ANY IN SOCIETY WE NEED TO GO BACK AND MAKE STRAIGHT AGAIN WHAT HAS BEEN MADE CROOKED,PLUS HE FAILS TO MENTION THE THESE DISEASES CAN STILL BE DISCOVER WITH OUT STEM CELL RESEARCH AND OTHER THINGS ARE THERE THAT PROMISS MORE THEN STEM CELL RESEARCH WE DISCOVER MORE WITH OUT IT AND STILL CAN GET LOSE WITH YOUR NARROW SCOPE

  • joe

    P.S IM NOT AGAINST A STRONG MILITARY YOU HAVE TO BE STRONG OR THE BULLYS OF THE WORLD PICK ON THE WEAK WE ALL KNOW THAT BUT WHY CAN WE USE TECHNOLOGY TO DISABEL OTHE WEAPONS TO CONTROL THE DAMAGE THAT CAN CAUSE AND USE WEAPONS THAT HARM ACTIVE SOLDIERS AND NOT CIVILIANS A BALANCED OFFENSIVE AND DEFFENSIVE MILITARY,

  • Randy

    @joe

    zzzzzzZZZZZzzzzz... snort.... what now? Caps lock is fun?

    OK!

  • Connie

    @ Joe

    I regret that I cannot dig into any of the issues that you have mentioned at this time, However I also am up dealing with issues in my own heart and mind and read your post.

    I just wanted to let you know I hear your voice of anger and frustration,I also want to let you know I recognize it coming from a Loving compassionate heart for humankind as a whole.
    I commend you for speaking out against the horrids that we humans have accepted as exceptable behavior or turn our backs on due to the inability to fight single handedly.

    I also want to offer some words of solace to you as you are full of emotion and obviously are pouring your compassion out for the sake of others and speaking for those who cannot.
    I too have been there and it is not a fun place to be.
    For the heart bleeds with sympathetic pains and tears rise to anger. Leaving us with a broken sense and disconnection from the world as our heart speaks for Justice against inhumanities.

    You are not alone. And perhaps speaking out and helping likeminded people know they are not alone and letting the victums know their pain is not gone unrecognized.
    However i just want to remind you to step back from your involvement enough to take care of your own heart and mind.Try to see yourself as a viewer and reporter so that you can still be passionate enough against unjustices , so that you can both effectively has compassionately Be equiped with understanding while bringing into the consciousness of Man the awareness and aid for the purpose of resensitizing people into a more humane realizations for society.

    You are not alone Joe keep a vigilant watch and report what you see and may Peace be with you and Thank you for sharing . Most of all Thank you for your Compassion and your role in making a change starting by awareness. :-)

  • Sadie The Celt

    @ Connie

    What lovely words, thank you for that, I loved reading it! Sade x

  • Connie

    @ Sadie You made my heart smile I had to walk away for a few minutes and just enjoy the connectedness.
    I know why you liked my comment :-) It is because your compassionate heart !
    As i took time to reflect I could feel a sense of wholeness because of the connectiveness so many of us have together here on TDF.
    Don't you just love this place? It is such a blessing to be able to join disscussions with so many people with so many viewpoints on so many topics esp. on things we cannot exactly explain and that have contrasting thoughts.
    It gives us a chance to sort out our thoughts and make a clearer difinition so we can advance.
    Because it is what it is, We have a place to expand our minds and grow .
    I would like to add that I know I make mistakes in my word usage and spelling and even display my contarsting ideas yet no one says a word and allows me to grow.
    I do regret that I am not very good at keeping up with several conversations with so many and it might appear I am not interested in what some others have to say. But I hope they know now that it a short coming in me and not to take it personal. Also Life gets busy for me and I never return to unfinished conversations, Unregretably.
    I have grown alot in the short time I have been with TDF. Even learning about myself and I guess thats the exact thing I am searching for when I reach out in the world wanting to understand something new. I guess somehow everything returns as a knowledge of how it affects my world and self in the world,and how I perceive the world.

    I was without internet last week due to an upgrade that I am 300 ft too far from source to get. Until it got straihtened out I was able to get online only a couple of glimpes. When I did I saw a whole lot of action I was missing on. But what I saw was how everyone here joined as one I was proud of you all. And then I saw that even though you were all at out right war. You took the time to let the enemy defend himself and when you all had discovered he was not a real threat or enemy then he was welcomed into the group of our so like brotherhood.

    I am proud of all of you and proud to be accepted as part of TDF.
    I am grateful and proud of our wise and fair leader Vlatko who made this all possible to learn and understand and a place to disscuss our different ( POV ) points of view so we all may learn and grow by each other.

    Well Sadie I'll close by saying I like you too :-) Thanks for the kind words and support.

  • Randy

    @Connie and Sadie!

    I gotta say, I vomited, a little bit, in my mouth reading that exchange!

    So, sacharine! So, very sweet! I think I have diabetes now, thanks! I can feel my pancrease beginning to explode!

    OY! or OI!

    Grow up, both of you! Life is not sweet! Life is about taking, and learning to avoid, beatings!

    Neither of you would survive one day where I live, which is where most of the world lives, frankly...

  • Connie

    PS
    However it is definetely clear that outright lying is unacceptable here.But I would like to add toward that someones defense that if he had not been so provoked by anger and frustration and felt he was alone in the cause of Justice, he might of had better sense and Judgement than to sympathize with the victums of inhumanity to the point he felt justified to appear he was one.
    However for the first defense, I find it forgiveable since he was acting thru angered compassionate eyes and error to human ways.
    I do hope that I do not regret my written words here tonight and start another war dialogue. I hope it is Politically correct to wake a sleeping dog.Since this deals with the damage that could be caused by how we react to inhumanities.

    Hating for the sake of correcting inhumanities does not solve the issues.Instead it only fuels the flames of unjustice.
    Somehow we must all pull together to make the necessary changes in our world. War will not change it.

  • Connie

    @ Randy !
    You grow up ! I have had my beatings and yet I came out the stronger for It is out of my sufferings that I learned Love is stronger.

    No One could survive what I have been thru if it was not for holding onto compassion and Love.

    You are barking up the wrong tree !

    If you have not learned that Love is the strongest power we have then you are a loser. And means you have not learned of suffering. But keep up your attitude and you will.

    You will only hurt yourself!

    Ps Hi !good morning to you ! I have missed you guys.

  • Connie

    @ HEY RANDY

    Your words struck such a true ring tone of the bell I had to go look it up.

    You should of recognized where your vomit feeling came from. I know you know the scriptures quite well.

    Proverbs 26:11

    " As a dog returns to its vomit,
    so a fool repeats his folly"

  • Randy

    All's I am saying is I am the sole provider and I scratch a living out of the cold hard Earth for hundreds of people.

    That is hard and life is hard, and that is good. That is what Nature intended.

    I have no parents, no government, no friends, no children, no gods to lean on! Like most of the world...

    That is where I live.

    Where the hell do you two live? In some construct of your mind? Because that is just delusional.

    My love for my wife is what I can do for her... her love for me is what she can do for me...

    All else is fatuosity. Are you fatuous?

  • Connie

    @ Randy I just love ya man ! You cause me to get out the books this morning. First the Bible and now the dictionary.

    hang on i gotta go look up the word Fatuous. LOL BRB

    Ps I am sure you have not lived as isolated as me. And yet while I struggled to support everyone around me I was beaten, accused, ridiculed, and left to die many times over and over.
    No Life for me aint been no crystal stairs!

  • Connie

    @ Randy

    Nope !Webster definition of Fatuous I am not.

    But A survivor I AM. IF I was to hold onto hatred for all the injustices done to me. I would of died with a self comsumption of a fire that would burn hell into ashes.

  • Randy

    This world we live in is "cash and carry". You get what you pay for...

    Love is a brain chemical, a survival technique of the genetic code... eating is eating... you have to survive, to LOVE!

    Whatever that means... Maybe study Plutarch... the 14th century romantics?

    Then you might understand why LOVE was invented... mean time... feeding is Nature's idea of "love", and I feed a great many people.

  • Sadie The Celt

    so there i was all snuggled up in my blanky....feeling the lurrrrrve......then I read the next blog....and it was dear Randy, I am rolling around the floor here .....I think I love Connie, she has such a 'spot-on' attitude, I just know shes lovely, (and we both like ice cream)
    Randy - you are always in my heart - always love to hear you too!
    I gotta savour this blog - cos its PRICELESS KNOWLEGE!
    thank you Connie & Randy - (ill be back)

  • Connie

    @ No Randy you do not know Love.
    Love is not something that Just makes you feel good !
    Love is not Something you can learn or read about.
    Love does not have a manuel.
    Love is not a tangible object nor chemical

    Love is not something that one can study in Archaic volts and books.

    Love is not something you can feed yourself But to feed others. Only by feeding others can one experience receiving. and partaking it.

    True love is a natural energy that exists. When there is hate in your heart you can not feel it.

    Love is an unscene force by which is someones unscene fortitude and strength ,and source of fuel for life. It is the only thing left when everything is taken away that gives life to life.

    I would of died n=many times over if it were not for the ability to hold onto Love. Love heals and nurtures.
    Hate destroys and devours.
    Only Love can cast away Hate and its power.

  • Randy

    @Connie

    Hey, here is a scietific test of "love" why don't you and I both confront a starving child and you give him poetry and your "love" and I give him a sandwich.

    We'll see which one gets healthy first.

    Nature is about practicality.

  • Connie

    @ Randy uh oh now look what we done ! We got Our Sadie Rolling over in her Blanket.

    Randy whatever Job it is that you are doing that is so hard ( sounds like mining) I just want to say thank you if it affects the welfare of others and Im sure it does. But it doen't mean a thing if you aint doing it from a pure heart and not grudging your job.
    Heck would you want a present that someone says how much they dreaded working to buy it?

  • Randy

    Or, more importantly, I give him a job and he can feed himself and his whole family... etc...

    But you keep spouting that poetry... that is great... with the bible and stuff...

    But, I am "evil"... whatever...

  • Sadie The Celt

    @ Randy

    Before I forget, my pschychiatrist reckons I am suffering from 'Stockolm syndrome' - because I actually feel sorry for the Governments treatment of me and my family. Ive lost everything - I havent got a TV and I only got the Internet in June because Carys (my daughter) paid.
    and I feel so sorry for the induviduals (government employees) who took my home / contents / clothes / everything and sold it at auction (then came back for my business premises - did sold that too.
    Im not angry - I feel pity for their narrow minds! - I kept saying to them 'think outside of the box'! - thats all I could say at the time because my head was mashed - but apparently its 'Stockholm Syndrome' -
    Oh then during all this, I fell backwards off a ladder and smashed my skull/carotid artery and had a mini stroke - so its been very hard trying to cope with everything whilst getting better. My pschychiatrist says I have 'cap gras syndrome' too - whatever that means.
    all I know is I am a better person than before all this happened - strange as it sounds! - and like Connie, Im still full of hope (not bitterness)
    However, unfortunately I do have a bit of brain damage - but I think you know that!

  • Connie

    @ Randy again you are barking up the wrong tree.

    I am the neighbor who doesnt have much and am looked down upon andhave been told very meanly to paint my shed cause its an eye sore etc......

    No Why ??????? Cause I do what they dont !
    I do feed many people and I even have a downfall of giving them more than they need a month supply. And I go for days without food cause I know I hunger and cannot see anyone go hungry.

    I am the person who literally has the clothes rotting off her because I bought for others before myself and have not been able to afford getting myself anything .

    I paid other peoples car payments cause I feel It would noit kill me if I had to walk if needed cause i could somehow survive.

    Yet when I am hungry no one is there.

    When I am without. No one is There.

    When I walk no one cares.
    I do not help others because they can help me.

    Yet, when I am hurt or shunned There is the one thing that is there for me and that is the" Love " my strength comes from Love and the force from which it comes I cannot see, but I hear it whisper to me . I always end up on my feet and have what i need and want eventually. I have been in serious dangers and yet i somehow survive.

    Wrong tree Randy ! I warned you !

  • Connie

    @ Randy by the way My songwriting does not feed the stomach
    it is hopefully used to feed the Spirit and Mind so one can hold onto the same strength That I have.

    it was not food that consoled me after i was beaten and raped savagely.

    it was not Money when I was married to a generous Millionaire that gave me strength.

    ETC>>>>>

  • Connie

    @ Dear Sadie,

    I read some back posts after i got back on the internet. I saw what you wrote and you inspire me greatly !
    You are a winner ! just by the way you didnt except the abuse as defeat !

    I'm not saying not to do all you can to get reimbursed for your loss . And of coarse you lost personal things that cannot be replaced also. But you refuse to feel beaten and that is the war. You cannot be destroyed if you dont feel destroyed.

    I am proud of You !

  • Connie

    @ Randy You should know now what Love is. Know Why?

    Cause even though you started out sarcastic and misunderstood Sadie and I we cant help but feel compassion for you . I Can hear the compassion in Sadies tone too. And Achems means an awful lot to me. He is one of the good guys and he Loves ya too ! He speaks good of you. So anything derogatory you might say or do would probably just make me temporarily peed off.

    How does it feel to be Loved Randy by total strangers.

  • Sadie The Celt

    @ Connie

    STOPPIT Connie - I cry whenever I get sympathy so please dont give me any because I just fall apart, and that wont get me anywhere -
    I did a stupid thing last Friday - I got emotional on the 'Coke Blog' lol how stupid that must sound to you!
    it really 'got to me' and I stupidly had a bout of verbal diarrohea and had to ask Vlatko to erase my surname (for fear of affecting my court case) which he did THANKFULLY
    so Ive got to keep my thoughts to myself for now.

    I think you have been through the wringer Connie - and I truly think you are lovely. perhaps you were meant to suffer - in order to reach the level of knowledge and compassion that you obviously have now.
    You have been married to a millionaire - and have lived in rags. I SO admire you - and your life. NOTHING but buy experience like that!

    we are very similar - I hope I will get to know you better! Sade x

  • Achems Razor

    Ha,Ha, What a way to wake up, here on a beautiful sunny day here in Manitoba, reading these blogs, love you Randy, and not being "Fatuous", had to look up that word also!

    But the "goils" know, love them to, exponentially, since everyone is throwing the love around, reminds me of the hippie days, not that I was ever was a hippie, honest! Won't even quote The famous "Jack Nicholson quotes" here, (LOL)

    Cap gras syndrome? had to look that up also, learn something new everyday!

    Am of course with Randy on this one, it is a eat or be eaten world, the survival of the fittest, and not just talking of the physical, but brain power!

  • Achems Razor

    @Connie:

    Thank you, it goes without saying you mean a lot to me also!

  • Connie

    @ Sadie I say My Sadie cause you are in my heart and an inspiration I am not sympathizing with you.But am yoked at heart with you.
    Because while you stand bravely protecting yourself you have the will to survive and walk Victoriously away from the destruction that the situation would have you feel if you let it.
    I somehow think that you had the head trauma as a blessing so you could seperate yourself far enough away from the situation to have to overcome that ordeal from completely sinking in.

    I had a head concussion too just three years ago and still get bouts with it. Its no picnic either.

    Yes Sadie You do get it ! I when I was 10 years old I sat on the floor and thought the pain was so bad that I would die of a broken Spirit and Heart.
    When I didnt die. I made a vow that I would learn of every pain so that I could help others , Because no child should hurt this way.

    I believe I have just about completed my promise. And I have always believed that it would be thru writing songs.

    i was born with an way above average singing voice and always won ever solo I ever tried out for and now I am writing one great song after another and I have my own unique style. I do not sound nor do my songs like any other and all my songs are different from each other.

    I am teaching myself the music business now and song copywriting, publishing etc... the reality of my thoughts are getting closer and closer.

    Sadie my nic name is cryingkate I was named that when I was under one years old. Ps. I was born into the world crying I never was spanked first . LOL

    Sadie do you have an email account on here ? I would Love to exchange emails. I think I am over doing talking now on the Movie pages :-)

  • Connie

    @ Anchams now you are slightly wrong !
    Us girls dont need to be fittest of survival and biggest Brain power if You Knights in mens clothing just do your Job. Us woman dont like being the brawn all the time on everything . We like Our Femininity :-)

    Good Morning friend !

  • Randy

    Hello, Achems!

    Well, it is not just opinion. Go out into the wilds of Canada with nothing but a guitar and "love" in your "heart".

    See how long it takes for you to get predated upon by large mammals, small mammals, and ultimately, insects and then microbial organisms.

    Eventually, something will try to eat your bones until, maybe, you get lucky enough for them to fossilize into something a future archeologist may find interesting...

    "Lovio-pithicus-flaccidus" the most ineffectual of human ancestors...

    You would be just food, and a job for these animals, (and after all, animals are all we are, really....).

    We all have a niche and a job to do, at least until Nature "fires" us and She is done with us... and then she moves on...

  • Randy

    Oh, and Connie, I protect my mate like a werewolf! Even when I am crippled by nature, I will snap and growl-- defend her to my death!

    That is nature; that is genetics, even as we have no children. Even as I know we have no possibilty of children, the male genetic need to keep my right to breed is intact.

    I am an animal as you are. But I love Dickens and Shakespeare, and Plutarch... etc. (PhD in classical literature...), our frontal lobe is only a few thousand years old, the animal is 3million.

    You have to acknowledge the animal to fully see the human.

  • Connie

    @ Randy may I intercept here ?

    You are missing the mark ! When you go into the rough wilds and are threated by fear of the harsh elements your Guitar is your best weapon.

    For if you have Love then your heart is full of Joy and if your heart is filled with joy then your eyes must see it first. Therefore You see the grapes and not the giant hunger.

    The law of attraction commands what you need to come.If your eyes are set on hunger and hardship you receive hunger and hardship. But if your eyes are set on abundance you receive abundance.

    One can go into the wilds without hunting gear and can see starvation at their door. Or one can see sticks and rocks or perhaps find some old fishing line with hooks attatched that fisherman lost during fishing or maybe find some caught in the near trees by the waters edge. that could be strung to a long branch and one could find bait by looking under the rocks for craw dads. Then one can fish for food. or make traps . what about using old fencing ? etc.... pile rocks for shelter and cover with layers of branches.

    When there is Joy in the heart you se possibilitys.

    When you cant see possibilities and are stuck in a negative mode then you reap the same.

    The most important thing in life is Life itself. Love is Life !

  • Connie

    @ Randy also where there is the will there is a way.

    Nature is pretty abundant with food. There are the rizomes of the cattail to eat in the fall and winter. the top brown tail itself can be eaten as wild corn on the cob before it turns brown . the very new shoots in April and may can be dig up and taste as perfectly of a cucumber than any cucumber.
    In April there is cowslips. You can beat a rock against a maple in early spring for sap.

    there are tons of edible food in the wild and even on roadsides.

    I would rather have my guitar and be happy foriging and eating crawdads or fresh water clams than be depressed and feeling hoplessness.

  • Connie

    @ Sadie you best not be crying. Dry up that face and get back in the Marching line ! Theres work to do my Friend. Lots of work. ;-)

  • Randy

    Nature is NOT abundant with food. That is another romantic fallacy.

    Only 30% of the surface of the world is arrable land, (human life supporting), Nature holds back the rest.

    The planet was never meant to support nearly 7billion large land mammals, (We humans!).

    That is why over a third of the world is starving to death.

    That is why 1.3billion human beings live in tin shack slums...

    That is why the next world war will be over food and water, not oil or any other of your, what, "liberal" ideologies... or conservative biblical beliefs...

    This center will not hold... but that is fine! Nature always sorts these things out, one way or another.

    Think in terms of billions of years, not a few hundred... look at the world that way, and life becomes a kind of simple continuum...

  • Connie

    Ok I better stear the way back to this Great Doc.

    I am still watching it over and over to get more details.
    This really is a Jam packed Documentary. Filled with both sides of contraversy for your salvatation, mastacation, and edification.Although the narrator was pushing and jamming hours of findings and comparisons into minutes it is well worth the watch and I hear he says hge has more on the way.

    Must see Doc.

  • Connie

    @ Randy Guarnateed if you came here I could feed you off the wild. Because I had the insight to study my Surroundings when I was young. I even know about foods 3000 away. I know I can eat Cactus "Pear cactus" abunmdantly growing etc...

    But see my point is backed up. I look for the possibilities you dont. So your right you would probably starve. And I am sure every country has its own things to eat. Not every town in every country is poverty stricken and it is mankinds war and negativity that keeps people trapped where the food supply had diminished not the earth..........

    How do you think No Mads moved about and why they moved about.

    I am gonna have to end this conversation if you cannot use your intelligence to think of one positive survival technique. If you want to see the world with black glasses go ahead. but your negativity has reminded me how much Joy and happiness i am when I keep my eyes set on the abundance.
    And today i plan on using it to get much done.

    Have a great Day !Love Connie

  • Achems Razor

    @Connie:

    Agreed a person can survive in the wilds, but a person has to know what he is doing, and depends which wilds, have traversed the wilds of B.C. in the mountains, almost like primeval forest regions in some areas.

    Came face to face with a huge silverback grizzly bear, had to use my wits to escape, no bear/pepper spray. My rifle would have been useless, that is a story in of itself. I know that the bear did not show any love. (LOL) Not disagreeing with what you say, but just saying, have first hand experience.

  • Sadie The Celt

    @ Connie!

    I would just love to be forraging for food with you! (like a pig after truffles!)
    I wish I could sing or play an instrument
    I can play a triangle if u wanna start a band?
    no Connie - im not crying anymore (thanks) - i lost the plot last Friday over a silly thing (i mislaid my manicure set) and I thought the HMRC had taken it - it just set me oiff
    Today I am like you (and probably BECAUSE of you!)
    yes Randy and Razor - feel the lurve! ha!
    connie? - email is whosesadie at gmail dot com
    please keep in touch with me - Id love that so much, thank you connie, from Sadie x

  • Connie

    @ Achems I guees this country Girl can survive better than you boys unless I am correct that everyone can.
    Cause as you know Achems I have done it. for the summer months when I was about 15 yrs old. And it was just a few short years ago I fed myself thru the spring on 17 dollars a month. and what I foraged from my back yard.

    It wasn't admittedly the kinda grub i would of love to eat but it kept the hunger pains away and I grew Inside.

    And unlike you i did not meet with any old Grizzly bear. But I did have a coyote or whatever they call them wild dogs here in Ny right smack behind me growling. I had just put my Cat to sleep and was in the cemetery late at night crying cause i missed her I had a flashlight with me . then suddenly I stopped the need for tears when I heard a wild grrrrrrrr right smack behind me. I thought no its gotta be the night sounds caryying my neighbors dog growl. But Nope It got stronger and I knew what it was and it was right behind me. I had sense enough to know do not run and move very slowly at first. And just walk as calmly and as normally as possible.. That I did LOL

  • Sadie The Celt

    @ Connie

    what a flipping experience, that was incredible. I will watch the documentary of your life Connie, if ever you made one?
    I love Cats - I think they matter so much more because they live longer than dogs - and get into our hearts with their selfish little ways - I just adore them. sorry for your loss. Have you got another pet now? what WAS the wild beast in the Cemetarey?

  • Connie

    @
    I can survive alot better too with Sadie she has a triangle and can call me in for supper.

  • Connie

    @ Sadie no I now have just 1 dog . But he is incredibly smart and funny . He Lives to play and make Jokes.

    He lives for the moment of each day without any fear of tommorrow and he teaches me to live more in the now. Until I get depressed again lol
    cryingkate1 at web tv dot net

  • Sadie The Celt

    @ Conie

    hahahahahaha! oh boy u makes me laugh!
    whosesadie @ gmail dot com
    dont forget me please?
    sade x

  • Randy

    @Achems

    A full grown, male grizzly!!! What a miracle of evolution!

    Omnivorous, like homo sapiens, with AT LEAST, canine intelligence, (perhaps better, some animal behaviorists rate bears as primate intelligence...). How wonderful for you!

    Your rifle, would have probably bounced right off of its fur!

    They are like, armored tanks of the land mammal phylum... what a priviledge to have had to run from one!

    Thankfully, we no longer need to eat them anymore. Can you imagine what it was like for our ancient ancestors to have to try and eat them, (or simply defend ourselves!), with just a spear or flint knife?

    I agree with many native Americans/Innuit just worship them and stay out of their way... (as you did...).

  • Connie

    It would of been nice though to have a sexy bear rug lying naked in front of a cozy fireplace as crackling sounds of burnt embers cast light across the room of shadowed lovers as they embrace the mating dance.

  • Achems Razor

    @Connie:

    Okay, are we getting into that again? see you on the e-mails (LOL)

  • Achems Razor

    @Randy:

    Run I did! in fact stumbled, was down hill and rolled head over heels forever, that grizzly must of thought, what a l00ny bin, so he turned around and went off in a huff!

  • Connie

    @ Achems LOL You and Randy started it by talking about Mans animalistic behaviors and then fuzzy furry bears. I mean after all what would any girl start thinking? :-)

  • Sadie The Celt

    oh dear Achems ....running from Grizzlys or from Connie?! either way, you need me more than you realise - I can fight like a ninja! ....there you go ...off running again.....

  • Sadie The Celt

    Achems!................oh Achems!!??..................Achems?
    silence

  • Connie

    @ Sadie , Oh My God ! You are so funny ! Im crosses my legs BRB

  • Randy

    @Achems

    Yes, indeed! HAHAHA! Well, good for you my friend!

    The only other "possible" thing you could have done, is offer him something he may like better than your tasty self!

    Some old-timers in the wilds of Canada and the America's (I know, same thing, but you have a sovereign border I respect so...)... used to keep tasty things bears like, just to throw at them and distract them.

    Bears will always go for the easy food... that is their nature. Why fight... when you have a tasty piece of dried fruit, or some sweet candy that they MIGHT not smell from a mile away, (like they do!), but you throw down and run.

    That was an, "offering to the god!" to the Innuit peoples!

  • Connie

    Actually I borrowed the idea from a poem I wrote for our Knight & Maiden Book

    Beneath the Hearth

    Come join me love beneath the hearth,
    Where crackling embers blaze.
    Bring forth thy nature On this rug,
    Where on fir skin I lay.
    Show me the beast thats mightier,
    than one I lie upon.
    In strenghth , measure with tenderness.
    Oh Hear my sigh my Love.

    Come lie upon my nakedness
    where shadows of, ember's glow.
    Rest And suckle upon these breasts.
    Where 'neath my heart does lie
    Entwine with me my love, my life
    tommorrow we may die.

    When wake for battle at early dawn
    Youll be one more strong.
    For with you go my soul my Dear
    Once I'm lied upon.
    Come my Love, Receive my gift
    We two will join as one.

    By Connie Jones ( Watson)
    (C) February 28 2008

  • Randy

    Oh, unless there are cubs involved then the Mother Bear will just destroy you, no matter what.

    But that is a good thing, for Nature.

  • Achems Razor

    @Sadie:

    Mo-Cuishle.

    You can fight like a "Ninja"? I took Karate you know. Bring it on!! I only run from Bears! (LOL)

  • Connie

    @ You want want to play Karate with Sadie. Holy Heavenly Angels I just saw a picture of her and she is A knock out.

    Sadie,You really are endowed with natural beauty and the smile and personality to match. Hope you dont mind but I just had to tell.

  • Connie

    @ Achems you gotta see Sadies pic.

    You will not turn your head in any other direction as long as you live. That is I guess as long as her meds are working. LOL

  • Achems Razor

    @Randy:

    What were we talking about? Oh, Yeah, bears, got waylaid by the "goils"

    Thought only men always think about sex? but these (Ladies) hmmm
    Bears are funny creatures, no two think alike. They have moods, like all us animals.
    Guess this bear at the time did not think I was worth pursuing. (LOL)

  • Sadie The Celt

    @ Connie
    Connie your poetry is way too romantic and sweet for me! - I dont know why I have no connection with love and stuff, but I lost it ....and it wont come back
    about my pic?
    thank you Connie, I dont know what to say now! - oh heck im gonna blub again! -

  • Sadie The Celt

    Connie

    sorry - thats doesn't mean that it isnt a lovely poem, because I see that it is - in a Mills & Boon type of way.
    But such lovely words are just wasted on me - I dont deserve them! but YOU do! Im not such a nice person as you alas!

  • Achems Razor

    @Connie:

    Okay, will bite, have Sadies e-mail you know, no jealousy? good!

    So Sadie, if you deciphered my latin blog to you, than I was right!
    Menage a trois.? hmmm.

  • Sadie The Celt

    lol Achems!
    AchemsAchemsAchems!
    'menage a trois' is FRENCH!

    menage = gathering
    a = of
    trois = three

    oh OOPS! have I given the game away??

  • Sadie The Celt

    hang on a minute
    Connie is a girl right?
    oh my giddy aunt

  • Connie

    YEs i am a girl and only interested in Men. You are safe with me LMAO

  • Achems Razor

    @Sadie:

    I know it is French.
    Was talking about the other blog that had some latin in it.

    Trust me, Connie is a beautiful gal/girl yes!

  • Randy

    Women who have no sense of themselves, it doesn't matter about their physical attractiveness on a biological scale...

    They are cyphers to me. Completely without weight or merit.

    I look through them.

    The female anatomy holds no mystery to me, neither does the male for that matter.

    My head is not in my pants. I do not care about reproduction. I find it fascinating, but... that is all behind me now.

    My wife is happy because she knows she is well comforted and taken care of, even in the worst circumstances.

    See ya, sisters!

  • http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/about/ Vlatko

    @Sadie The Celt, @Connie, @Achems Razor, @Randy,

    Probably I should share your emails among you and you can discuss these matters in private. Even better... after initial contact, exchange your Skype nicknames and start a tele/video conference. Sorry for being rude but your exchange of thoughts has nothing to do with this documentary.

  • Connie

    @ Vlatko Its my fault I knew I was gonna get in trouble I deserve it.If you dont kick me out I wont do it again promise !

    You can give everyone my email if you want to and leave it to them to let me distribute it if they want. Thanks

  • Sadie The Celt

    @ Vlatko

    It was my fault
    Im sorry too
    thanks

  • Randy

    Vlatko, the mighty parent!

    Who is looking out for us? Vlatko!

    Sorry, my friend, I tried to keep away.

    Please do not share my e-mail with any of these women. Sadie already has my YouTube page.

    Achems would be fine...

    Sorry again, delete as you will...

  • Connie

    VLATKO Ok Did you see Randy does not want to give his email out . He is only comfortable when he can create Misery out of Love and then talk about his married sex life.

    I would not want him being uncomfortable

  • Achems Razor

    @Vlatko:

    I knew you would say something about our irrelevant discussions, but everybody it seems always tests the authority, being human nature as it is.

    It is your website, so do what you must do. And I apologize for any arrant behaviour on my part.

    e-mail from Randy yes agree, Connie already has mine, Sadie, will do myself. Thank you for your patience.

  • knucklepunt

    Just finished watching, and I am impressed. I didn't expect to learn anything new, and was surprised that I did.

    The narration moves along steadily and is easy to follow and understand. Plus, they offer up some genius analogies when describing creationists efforts to debunk Evolution.

    Sadly, that won't make an iota's difference to those choosing to live the myth that is creationism, but it's nice to know there are still folks out there who are capable of sane, rational and independent thought.

    Very well done.

  • Enzo

    @ Vlatko
    Cheers for that, this isn't facebook lol. Checked my email and found it spammed with comments on this doc. Was hoping for some more intelligent viewpoints but instead find a very west conversation.

  • Kyle

    I was a little bothered with the overuse of recapitulation theory in arguing the theory of evolution. It has been common knowledge in the scientific community for a while now that it is not empirically sound. For example, if a fetus does trace the entire homo sapiens sapiens' evolution would it not have an extra pair of chromosomes until around the time of the 8th month of term? Each haploid cell carries 23 chromosomes pairs, combining to make 46 right off the start. You're all sound proof that we evolved from a separate, yet semi-joined chain from the great apes was the chromosome fuse. Your logic does not agree with itself and thus I cannot rightly believe much more of what you said (other then what I already knew was fact beforehand). C'est dommage ca...

  • Connie

    @ Enzo
    Oh Yes I found your post ! It is Quite enlightening indeed However I must of missed the Article about Shooms in the Doc. What are Shooms ? Did you say your reality is altered ?
    Well thanks for sharing.
    Below is your post.
    Enzo 09/09/2010 at 13:52 Great series. Dislike the title though, it should really be Disproving Religion. But hey that’s the only complaint I’ve got. Oh and @ Scott Shrooms are good but have you ever tried DMT? Taking it actually changed my whole perception on reality and existence, it was the final step in breaking free from my religious upbringing.

  • Enzo

    @ Connie
    Well done! you found it. That of course was not my only post as I later provided someone with references for their work. But hey, you saw that and thought 'Yes! This is perfect ammo to throw at that arrogant prick and make my self look good yay for me!'. Yes I admit I went off key but I didn't go on and on talking about rubbish. Oh and when you try and criticise a post, read the dam thing properly!

  • Connie

    @ Enzo
    there is a second choice. Accept my apology for all the emails I created and next time try to be a little tolerant for you were rubbing it in my face after i already opologized and if you didnt see that then you didnt read the whole thing.
    If you remember we liked each other till this incident.Two wrongs don't make a right. Can we shake hands and end this thread? Everyone has an off day and shoots there mouth there is no real sin here we need to stop now and fix it.

  • Enzo

    @ Connie
    Haha I just enjoy looking for a reaction, yeah I'm a bit of a jerk but nothing I write is out of hate. There's no need for apologies here, at least not from you.

  • Simone

    This would be, i'm sure an excellent documentary I would loved to have watched, but unfortunately the narrator is just too distracting. He speaks to quickly to understand and I just can't hear him properly. When trying to explain something to someone, I have found it to be much more successful if you speak at a moderate pace. The narrator gives you an information overload in such a short time, it's extremely annoying, because I was really interested in this film. I only lasted 10 minutes before I had to shut it off.

  • undecided

    I watched as much as I could, the series stopped running after episode six, some computer or internet problem, but I saw and understood enough to put into question some of my own dearly held beliefs. This is not to say that I have made a decision on science over religion.
    The first thing that bothered me about the comments made is that there was not much balance of view, and second, If you are going to have the view of science from a logical perspective, then why all the mention of drug use? Drug use has no basis in logic either. It can be proven scientifically that drug use is harmful, so it should be shunned entirely on a logical basis alone.
    The advantage of religion is as a set of adhered to values. If we base our existance on only "survival of the fittest" we can argue that "might makes right". The problem is, what and who decides what is right? We have as many opinions as we have people on the earth, so how is it decided what is right?
    Invariably, if survival is the goal, extinction is just natural selection, so the green generation is barking up the wrong tree too. Cockroaches have survived as long as any other form of life, are they then the ideal form of life by extrapolation? Life depends on predators and parasites. As humans we follow the same pattern. Some of us are predators, and others parasites and the whole range inbetween. We are the most advanced creatures, and yet are in danger of annhilation of ourselves. When it comes to religion and science the arguements continue endlessly because we just don't know. A documentary such as this one presents a viewpoint, and without watching another with equal emphasis on the religious viewpoint it is difficult to get a balanced view. (Curt Cameron is no scientist either.....)
    The persistence of both views over time seems to show that religion is pervasive due to a power structure, and science is benevolent and relies on fact alone. In contrast, the opposite can also be argued. True religion means an abscence of a power struggle, and science has also been manipulated for gain or power over time.
    My conclusion? We don't know. There are enormous gaps in our understanding from both sides. Those who believe in science do not delve deeply into religion, and those who are religious do not delve deeply into science. Both sides exercise "faith" in their proponents. None of us has the intellectual capacity to understand the whole of science much less science and religion. Therefore we can have no "big picture" understanding of reality. We merely understand our experience and world of influence to greater or lesser degree. This is not conclusive, it is just functional on our part.
    Now, religion as a productive means of retaining values is an interesting concept. If we had an all-knowing, fair, honest leader we would have a benevolent dictatorship, and we would all be fine with it. The problem has been finding someone that can fill the bill. Those who have had idealistic views and experimented to create a utopian society have all failed. But we have muddled along anyway.Yet the preservation of values has not been an endeavor of science, but more one of religion. Values make scientific sense to a degree. It may be values that have allowed us to reach the top of the food chain and hold our postion as the most advanced creatures.
    Religion is a factor in both destruction and growth, but it is under control of choice rather than circumstance (as science purportededly is), therefore we are responsible for learning what is best for survival of everything. I think we fail on thinking that we can fully control everything, and at the same time not slipping into the idea that we have no control and therefore it doesn't matter what we do.
    Lastly, I am wondering if there is a middle ground when it comes to science and religion. Is it possible that both views have merit, and can be combined?
    I believe that there is nothing to say that there isn't some third option to the argument. what about religious evolution? Beliefs evolve to meet science? I could go on, but I've already said plenty, I just don't know, and I hope that it becomes possible to know, within my lifetime.

  • Connie

    @ Undecided

    I like very much what you posted and thank you for taking the time to write us on your point of view.

    I too think somewhere along the lines That the two can mix. But not until Religion is taken out of the equation and replaced with A superior creator ,God.

    Religion and God are not the same. Religion is an organized institution and are branched off into sects.People forget That the Religion they serve was based on Church and State as one. And yet though all the evidence is there to support they were merely laws of lands. They still base their total beliefs and rules of behavior and thought from Ancient control groups.

    I believe their are some truths that are written and handed down long before the Bible and its time of writers and the stories we find support that religion as we know it are passed down stories from even older cultures, Yet there are some fundamentals that even the Magi's knew. There are laws of life and death that are as scientific as can be and taught as rules to live by.

    Only my God is within me. He is my consciousness and the natural laws that govern my consciousness, If we could scientifically study Consciousness and see inside we would also find the mind and light of God.

    Religion keeps the confusion and separation and blocks the doors of real enlightenment.

  • undecided

    @Connie,
    Organized religion has it's merits too. One of them being consistency. There are those religions that do not have centralized control and therefore form numerous factions, some of which become over-zealous and fundamentalist, while others more conservative and subdued. Lack of consistency results in chaos. Religious belief would become personal opinion. We already have billions of those. Belif in a God that is consistent and unchanging is part of the reason religions organize. If God's house is a house of order, shouldn't ours be too?
    Back to science, it relies on similar ideas of order and schools of thinking. Universal consistency of thought doesn't seem to exist. What is something all people believe in? Math?
    This is the source of my indecision.

  • Connie

    @ Undecided

    I disagree The whole perpose of the gospel is to free man from the order of a church, Instead the law is put in everymans heart and the Holy Ghost is now the church.Half the Bible teaches what is the new code of conduct and how to be a brother or sister.
    The Bible has fundamental basics on how to live as a whole, but it is tainted and twisted with religious/State rule and is corrupted however if read with ears that hear you can find the treasures written within, but still again I say these treasures within were borrowed from earlier Ancient writings and doctrines I believe we still need to dig deeper than we have in Eygpt down thru the ages and find more of mans history to discover where these religious connotations originated from.Otherwise we are following connotations passed down that are diluted from one culture and state of politics upon another.One long chain of mess and chaos that is !

  • mrs d

    The created trying to figure out his Creator is quite amusing to those who actually believe in the Creator!

  • Epicurus

    those who believe in a creator are pretty amusing to those who actually use their brain.

  • Connie

    Those who use their brains are thankful for a creator

  • Epicurus

    @Connie, give ONE good piece of LOGIC, REASON, or EVIDENCE to support your positive claim that there is a creator.

  • Connie

    @ Epicurus

    No you do the Homework. Give me one good piece of LOGIC or EVIDENCE to support your negative claim that there is not a creator.

  • Epicurus

    LOL you are asking for evidence to support a negative...okay i will make this simple.

    the same evidence to support that there ISNT magic fairies making your garden grow is the same that i use for your creator.

    if you have yet to provide evidence or support for some claim i can dismiss it just as easily.

    now do you have ANY evidence for your claim that there is a creator?

    and do you understand why i would find it funny for you to ask me to prove a negative?

  • Connie

    @ EPIcurus

    It is not funny at all ! And there is nothing wrong in asking you to disprove something you want me to prove.

    Since you were being so headstrong and asking me to answer One of lifes greatest questions with scientific proof than you prove there is no creator.

  • Connie

    typo : (Then) you prove there is a creator.

    Do you actually think you have the Absolute answers? Or should you of rather said that you yourself does not believe there is a creator?

  • Connie

    @ Epicurus

    Here try something to explain "perpetual motion"

    From what energies does perpetual motion originate?

  • http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/about/ Vlatko

    @Connie,

    I think @Epicurus is right. The Big Bang, the Theory of evolution and literally tons of evidence in the fields of biology, chemistry, anthropology, archeology, physics etc. point to the conclusion that there is no creator. But nobody can give you solid evidence (a+b=c) that there is no creator because you're asking the impossible.

    It's like asking someone to prove that Santa Clause doesn't exist. We know that he doesn't exist, because no one actually have seen him, he never brings presents and we have a strong feeling that he is just a mythological figure (Saint Nicholas). But we'll never have an actual solid physical proof that he doesn't exist. Simply because he is a myth. We can just say that all data relevant to this date lead to conclusion that there is no Santa Claus, or creator.

    Ok now you prove that there is creator.

  • Connie

    @ Vlatko,

    You know I respect and look up to you. But just as you think one way I do think another. You cannot give proof for impossibility no more than I can give possibility other than what belief has done for me and is doing. I can only offer my experiences.

    You say Science, Biology, Anthropology etc. give proof of the impossibility. I ask where? Because I have not seen the proof yet.

    Grant you there may be explanations of why a white bearded man who lives in the sky is not the Master Craftman that makes the clock tick.

    But my creator is not of such that I know of. Mine lies somewhere in between the duality of a God that was personified with physical attributes and the workings and wonders of Science and natural laws and creational forces unseen.

    I believe that there is always a third choice of dualitys. One cannot see gravity yet the force exist and is recognized.

    I believe that this same creational force lives within each person and living thing. I believe Man has a choice to use this Godself or not.

    But one cannot begin to understand or take use of the laws without faith. And with faith this Godself grows and strengthens. I could not do things of my own without recognizing this part of me that is of a higher consciousness.

    God is Consciousness so what kinda proof can I give you to prove its existence? What kinda proof can I give that will open your heart and mind to faith? I cannot.

    There are also many scientist who believe yet cannot show proof. Even those who have tried to disprove have walked away with faith yet cannot prove . So who am I to be the one to show proof?

    If I spend my lifetime trying to explain I could only accomplish doing nothing with the self knowledge I do possess and hinder my experiences of growth .

    I am against religion that only imprisons people from their full Godself.

    We are our own creators each and everyone of us by which the means of the creational forces in us.

    It is up to the individual to create his own world.

  • http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/about/ Vlatko

    I respect you too @Connie.

    I didn't say Science, Biology, Anthropology etc. can't or can give proof of the impossibility (the creator). They will never bother to prove or disprove mythological, spiritual, religious realms since they're all subjective and they can't undergo the scientific method.

    I said all the science is giving bits of information concerning the real world, and all that data just points to the conclusion that there is no creator, nothing else.

    You've said it right. You can only offer your experiences. And the experiences are many... as many as people on this planet. That is why there are so many religions today.

    See... science never takes into account someones experiences, emotions, beliefs...

  • Connie

    @ Vlatko,

    Yes I see I did mis construe what you were saying as a claim.

    I agree with you that they think they are giving bits of information concerning the real world.
    Yet there is a twist as I see it.

    That is this: The real world as we know it is not the real only world.
    Part of being your Godself Self creator of the world around you, Is all done by your mind. This is the part where mteaphysics come in. Yet one must be careful as with anything what you take as Gospel. Just as the Bible has many lifes hidden jewels and secrets of commanding our world around us. It has been twisted and abused by religious/political dominators.

    I am very interested in the string theory and stuff that will prove other dimensions in our world, because for me that is getting closer to understanding our mindsets and our true extensions and dimensions and consciousnes layers/dimensions of ourselves. All of which will bring down the Archaic religions.
    But for me it will not disprove a higher self or God consciousness instead it will support that part of us that is so mind boggling comprehensive.

  • Connie

    @ Or I could say the Bible was written by people who used bits of truths in laws of commanding our world around us.
    There was much knowledge at one time I feel sure but tainted and twisted and used for control it surely was.
    Ps
    Please, anyone listening... I do not want to get into a bible war....

  • Connie

    @ Vlatko,
    I would like to retract what I said about at one time there was much knowledge that was twisted and used.

    I actually have been questioning that older thought I had and have been wondering if I followed a wrong thought down many paths.

    Perhaps the enlightening thought is that there never was such stored knowledge and that only science etc.. will break thru and find our higherselves without all the ritual and man made laws and punishment from a deity.

    Its seems I cannot trace back to original truths because there never was. only what we can find seems to be the positive direction. everythuing else traces back to a deity that requires blood atonement to apease gods.
    While giving authoritys complete submission.

  • Frank

    Why is it so difficult for us all to admit that we just don't know? Science, religion, the arguments have gone on and on by the best minds of our time, and they have not reached a consensus, what makes us think that we know? I'll admit it, I don't know. I"m just going with what works for me in my circle of circumstance. What bothers me is when people get so cocky and self assured of their opinions.

  • Epicurus

    sigh connie. if you cant admit the simple fact that asking someone to prove a negative is illogical then i cant help you.

    if you want to believe in new age mumbo jumbo about godself things go right ahead. but you have no evidence or reason to believe it other than it making you happy.

    Like Vlatko said, i cant prove there is no santa clause....you and i BOTH know that zeus is not real....now prove to me he is not real. that is the same as asking to prove god is not real. god is a made up thing that has no evidence (same as the godself) and by claiming it IS when you have no reason to say it IS, you are deluding yourself.

    but of course....whatever makes you happy.

  • Connie

    @ Epicurus

    Please use a clean hanky as you wipe your own snot . It is you that needs help not me. I am confident and solid in what I know. You were the one who needed and asked for evidence and proof for what i already know.

    If you cannot see beyond your own nose and mock others for their keener vision then that is your problem.

    You sound like a little boy hiding behind a Mothers apron.
    I did not agree with Vlatko as far as not being able to disprove a creator. You did not read it as it was written.
    But what would I expect from you anyway.

    At this point little boy, I do not care to waste my time with you. My time is much more precious that to waste it on a apron boy.
    You believe what you want to and I will believe in what I want to. I hope you can at least invision that.

  • Connie

    @ Epicurus,
    One more thing ! Before you make you next move of trying to say I am running away from answering you as I exspect you will , Let me draw your attention one more time that you are a time waster.
    You obviously could see the evidence that i am quite busy trying to help save some inicent people from being falsely imprisoned, Tortured and murdered by tommorrow morning. which is now only a few hrs away or maybe none due to time zones.
    Besides my personal life that I have a whole slew of work needed to be done for a class I am taking by tommorrow night and helping to work a Civil Engineer business and even more on my own personal agenda.

    What are you doing? besides trying to mock my beliefs?
    as I said. I dont have anymore time for you.

    If you want to do the world any favors or if you want to really be of help then stop judging and condemning and help me spread some letters to the Embassys and to the UN Council to release the prisoners.

  • Epicurus

    wow, good answer. you had to leave me two fairly long posts that were just insults because you are unable to answer a question. you wont even be honest to yourself. instead you will get defensive and throw insults.

    yes you are certainly showing how bright you are.

  • Connie

    @ Epicurus If you have any wattage in your bulb you would help save Sakineh and argue later.

  • Connie

    @ Hesus ,

    Thank you of coarse. Yes you are correct. There are several petitions by different organizations going on I am and am encouraging others to sign as many as they can.
    I see you know that.

    I just googled "Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani" And got the latest update 26 minutes ago. That she will supposedly be hung instead but who knows as they been caught in many lies.

    But I was glad to see the organization you mentioned was a big hit. It done very well so far. I will spread that one too.
    If you find anything else that you think I should know please let me know.

    Ps the updated article now says she might have a little more time. So its not too late to fight.We can't give up till its over.
    Thank you Hesus , good Job !

    Thank you Vlatko , with all our hearts. Thank you!

  • nick

    LOL anyone else notice at the end the pictures of zeus and thor r from age of mythology?? LOL

  • Jonny

    This is a nice document with well researched and deep information and facts. No one can oppose to this. I appreciate the work put into it.
    Even I as Christian, I see is that the Bible's explanation of creation is not solid enough to be how life came to be. Just by the count of years, it is straight forward without even looking at evolution theory.

    On the contrary, there are things that science cannot account for, and that leaves only one option. The existence of a SUPERNATURAL being, GOD. Miracles are not just Bible stories because I have experienced them. Through prayer my stomach ulcers healed in almost an instant and never came back. There is no way I can deny God's existence and His superiority over nature.
    I am yet to hear a scientific explanation of the occurrence of miracles.

    FAITH in and a relationship with God is more than moral, rules, laws and "dos and donts" as many think it is. Law=Religion, Faith=life.

    Quoting (paraphrase) this document, science answers the how, when, where but never gets to answer the WHY.
    Faith in Jesus Christ answers the WHY of life.

  • Steveo

    Oh, my science!

    If people read the Bible with an open mind they might understand what it is all about. Sigmund Freud would disagree with the popular atheist notion that by nature man is a rational and logical being. Most of the decisions we make are based on emotions, which is how the false reality makers of Madison Avenue have coaxed us into this culture of consumption and narcissism. The Bible on the other hand teaches that a man should not let lust and emotions rule his soul. The Bible also clearly states that NO ONE knows when the end of the world to take place and we wont have a chance to prepare for it, so logically we should just focus on making the world a better place while we are here! The number of Christians doing so far outweighs all the hypocrites and other groups doing so combined I should add.

    -Steveo (the flying spaghetti monster doesn't love you btw)

  • Bravinator

    Look out for the birth scene in part 3. I was not ready for that!

  • porcupinevslion

    good.

  • Steve

    A very eye opening documentary I would recommend for all religious fanatics, whether Moslem, Christian, Jew or Hindu. But then again, 70 % of this is about proving the Bible wrong. What about the Torah or the Koran? As far as I'm concerned, they are just different versions of the same old fairy tale.

  • alif

    if one offspring had 46 chromosomes because of the fusion, then that means that one offspring kept reproducing until everyone had 46 chromosomes doesn't it? then what happened to ALL of our ancestors that had 48? did they just stop reproducing? it doesn't seem to make sense.

  • azilda

    super....someone had to condence it all....well done! Now how do we get the right people to watch it...because what i think is that people who agree with what it portraited here will watch it until the end but the opposing ones will quit right at the start...unfortunately!
    az

  • Ms. Self Destruct

    I just want to say, i find the comments on this site very enjoyable and as equally if not more interesting than the documentaries themselves.Keep it up!!:)

  • Ms. Self Destruct

    P.s "There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"-Richard Dawkins

  • Ms. Self Destruct

    P.s "There may be fairies at the bottom of the garden. There is no evidence for it, but you can't prove that there aren't any, so shouldn't we be agnostic with respect to fairies?"

  • Connie

    @ Ms. Self Destruct

    Please to meet you Ms Self Destruct sounds like we have some things in common (LOL)
    I love TDF too!

    I was giggling about what you said and got to thinking about my Garden.I was thinking they must be yellow fairies.
    Cause my Dog p..isses in my Flower Bed. :-)

  • sue

    Awsome documentary !!!! It was so good im waiting for more like it. Anyone that can find anything close to this needs to post it.

  • Pyrrhus

    Religions are like soccer teams, all striving for the World Cup. Unlike soccer, the football they kick is the world we live in.

  • Billy Bingbong

    Lordy Lordy, Lorks O Lordy :D

  • jack1952

    @ Epicurus re: #72

    Masturbation is encouraged according to Ray Comfort. You know what else fits perfectly in your hand.

  • pixiechick

    @every rational person here: Never give up hope people... one by one, everyday in every country there is someone, somewhere who is abandoning the superstitions of our past and embracing the knowledge of our present... Atheism, Freethinking - Label it as you will. I do not call myself an "atheist", because to me that means I am "denying" the existance of something we would call "divine".
    I know nothing about divinity, in the same way I know nothing about the existance of fairies and unicorns - because I have yet to see any hard evidence for their existence outside human imagination. Folktales and legends carry nothing more that shadows of truth or interpretations of reality, in every case.
    I embrace the knowledge science has given humanity, and leave the speculation to people with wilder imaginations than my own.
    Embrace the knowledge. Because IF there is something greater than ourselves, than obviously knowledge would be the ultimate gift and goal of that greater power, or the struggle to achieve and understand it would not be so great.
    All I know for sure is clinging to falsehoods and folklore for fear of accepting change is an insult to the great intelligence mankind has been gifted with by our evolution.
    And denying the proof that exists all around you makes you a fool, no matter who you are.

  • pixiechick

    @Ms. Self Destruct ... my damn fairies keep hiding my cark keys... any suggestions :D

  • pixiechick

    (should read "car" - fingers don't always cooperate, sorry :P)

  • Ms. Self Destruct

    @connie ha aww you should prob give the credit to Richard Dawkins tho:P, i have watched far to many interviews of that man.
    @pixiechick ha erm lay off the drugs? na i kid :P i was convinced there was a black hole in my room from all the random stuff that has disappeared over the years:P or maybe i am the fairy mwhahaha

  • George

    hehe
    that was actually quite original

  • McGarvey

    Is this in the group stages or the knock-out phase of the competition? Important as it may go to penalties.

  • NeverStopTrying

    Anything that starts with Echoes has to be good :) Pink Floyd forever!

  • kongkakingchongcha

    I found 1 thing funny about creationists. They seems to have left out Asians and the entire East Asia in their story. Even the Mormons included American Indians.

    I'm wondering if they could fit Asians into their story?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/El-Capitano/100001984035297 El Capitano

    Interesting production by the "maker" of this documentary. It seems that humans are just not interested "why" they exist. Science provides them with a "theory" of how, when and where... And that seems to be just fine. Sure, no one is curious why... We are some evolved monkeys and we are happy about that, right?

    Now, we can go back to our eat, sleep and s*** routine and enjoy ourselves!

  • AtheistTroll

    little late but they became the other great Apes like chimpanzees, Gorilla and orangutangs.

  • Snowsurfing

    Fantastic doc, Loove TDF, first time commenter but I am enthralled to post, I too love the comments on here and find myself, even late at night bleary eyed after watching several doco's, squinting to read the text of some of the more intelligent posts.

    Christianity can't burn enough books to keep up with the spread of thruth that is going on out there. Thanks internet, for spreading the knowledge and truth! If only evolution somehow stopped the creationists from being able to procreate...

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Discovering Religion
    Discover this:
    4,000 lesbians and gays have been executed since the 1979 Islamic revolution. Methods of execution include; beheading, chopped in two, stoning to death, burning alive, and being thrown alive from a high building.
    ________________________________________
    Google:
    "Real execution :(( Stop The Gay Crime , Iran!! :(("
    ________________________________________
    warning -- graphic

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Discovering Religion

    Religion speaks for itself.
    _____________________

  • minnesota_mike

    This is really a very well made documentary...kudos for your well researched base of eveidence..!!
    I'm subscribing because you have done your "homework".

    M-M.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Si-Belsi/100002429315032 Si Belsi

    watching the same intro in every 10 minutes is tiresome..

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Si-Belsi/100002429315032 Si Belsi

    horray..a doc with english subtitle..great!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/alienesse Nicole Rotschi

    Nightmares on Wax ?

  • blackflower

    poor documentary. stylistically unsophisticated and absolutely stodgy. the narrator's voice is unsuitable to be guide through the knowledges, to attract the audience....

  • Leofwin

    Creationists haven't just left out Asians, they've also left out Europeans and Africans and Polynesians and Native Americans. None of these people are mentioned in the Bible, except maybe Egyptians and Greeks.

  • Leofwin

    This documentary is very misleading. It claims to be about religion, but it's really about evolution. When it does mention religion in between explaining evolution, it only ever mentions Christianity. There is no explanation of any other religions such as Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Shinto, Taoism, Zoroastrianism, Baha'i, et cetera.

  • TheJurg71

    Don't know if anyone was listening closely to the last 1:30m, he switches from talking about the age of the earth (6,000 years) to "the age of the universe" (~8:25-8:30) being 6,000... completely lost his train.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XJXEI2SVZCGOYJWFIEKODJOJRY christopher m

    arrgh! bad audio... :(

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_RLFUC2C5E5IHM73POVLJHZCGGE Dulmini

    Interesting..

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_RLFUC2C5E5IHM73POVLJHZCGGE Dulmini

    Anything about Buddhism?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZJRXQ6RHS5QPRP3QX5HZDKRZLE Jeremy

    Religious people are idiots. nuff said.

  • TimOsmand

    One of two things will happen rather soon on this earth. Either God will take care of the atheists. Or Natural Selection will take care of the creationists.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QAXHQTTABZJXAB3JP7A254MT7Y GodmanEnki

    Obama was right, in a sense. "people haven't been reading their Bibles." That's as close to the truth as Obama has ever been. Ask yourself, "How many people died due to Satan?" (Job's family and servants." Lets say about 60, or even 70. Then ask, "How many people died due to "God's" orders?" OVER 2 MILLION! So I ask you, WHO would YOU worship? Though an ordained minister, I do NOT "preach the gospels;" because I know what is in there. Especially the Old Testament. You never heard of Jesus killing, or having killed ANYONE! RIGHT? Jesus was MORE "God-like" than Jehovah, Allah, Krishna, Buddha, or Vishnu COMBINED! Yet Christians especially, swear-by Jehovah. Just as the Muslims swear by Allah.
    For me, there is WAY TOO MUCH "human" in all of them. Which would have to mean, "WE" made "God" and not the other way around. WHY would "GOD" loose his temper? WHY would "GOD" ask a murderer to "free his Israelites from bondage?" When all he need do is "think it!" Snap His fingers! It is ILLOGICAL.
    So you say, well "it says in the Bible," (MAN I hate that expression) That "God' is a just God. God loves us all." All that kinda crap. But when you ask, "well then, WHY does "God" allow such misery and suffering, in the world?" They come up with the EXCUSE," GOD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS." That's the second most hated quote ! have.
    I truly believe, had Obama perhaps read HIS Bible, (Koran) whatever, maybe, just maybe, he would keep at least ONE of all the PROMISES he made during his "election speeches." Politicians aint stupid. Lawyer first, politician second.
    These LOW-LIFE-POLITICIANS can "acquire" literally MILLIONS of dollars to get appointed....oops, I mean "elected; yet millions of babies and women, yes men too, are starving-to-death, even in America! But when the "election FRAUD is happening, lobbyists can allocate MILLIONS for a man, who ALREADY HAS that job!
    Please excuse me while I go throw-up......

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/CTPYWTDOBJJZA2OPXUGRFXS7T4 yahoo-CTPYWTDOBJJZA2OPXUGRFXS7T4

    What a long ass and boring documentary. Everything the author says can be combined into a much shorter version and be presented in a much more accurate, precise, and interesting manner.

    5 hrs of blabbering, I almost fell asleep. There are much better sources of information on the subject.

    Good luck in your search of the truth.

  • matthewzx003

    Pretty sure creationists believe these two dates to be the same...

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/ABN37MIPRDMRW3UX3U3LJOVLSA manfruss

    Religion without science is superstition and science without religion is materialism. True religion must conform to the conclusions of science.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/NKBV3CFDEULZP3S37FUUK6NHYE boanca

    hi , every body , everithing stands in words , even the guy that talks in movie , (he is a great scientist after his mother teaches him the words with no money pay , no school program , she speek to him every word 1 by 1 with paicent and learn him on free , so now he cam talk all nonsens with out meaning ),he did not remember how his mom teaches him the words , he know one thing Evolution , i want to him to make e beautifull movie named DEVOLUTION , no law tell to speacies to evolve or devolve ,its so thin the border of evolution end devolution , are there species that devolve in stand of evolve ; search for them , who makes them devolve , what law , what Darwin , ?

  • Alv Vassdal

    Darwin is prehistoric life-substance-soup added by a meteorite, not a monkey. Monkey's are monkeys, humans are humans, just like zebras are not horses, even if they look alike. All the mentioned is mammals. But none of them, besides humans, have developed intellect to write symbolic images of mouth-sounds to express that those with other believes about life are idiots. I'm glad God did it like that. And I see why he got tempted to try to terminate the human race, since I don't see gorillas with bazookas or ants triggering red buttons with ICBM's.

  • http://www.topdocumentaryfilms.com Epicurus

    you have no idea what you are talking about.

    just because humans can write doesnt make us special. im sure a bird looks at its ability to fly and believes that makes it special, or a fish looks at its ability to breath underwater and believes it is special.

    you are nothing but a scientifically illiterate anthropocentric layman.

    there is no god and you need to grow up.

  • Achems_Razor

    Did not know that word anthropocentric before, good stuff.

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropocentrism

  • Alv Vassdal

    Seriously. Do you really believe that birds and fish have thoughts about superiority above other species based on their abilities? That's a very complex form of thinking, based on abstract ideas, and I've never read anything that would suggest any form of animal possess such abilities, maybe except chimpanzees, that can learn up to about 100 words (mostly about food). The only thing that would suggest mental abilities in birds is examples of ravens figuring out how to transport several crackers at once, instead of just 1. But then again, being able to transport as large quantities of food as possible at once, is vital to survival. And when it comes to fish, I've never heard about any evidence about what goes on in their (very tiny) brain, but I can only guess that if they do think, it would be more about "me hungry" and "me want to produce offspring", but that could just as well be instincts producing urges, instead of complex thought-phenomena. You even say "im sure" about those statements. Then prove it. You call me the layman, so educate me.

    And don't throw labels on me that I've never claimed to believe in. Like your "anthropocentric" remark. I don't believe humans are superior. Instead I believe humans are part of the cycle of nature, like any other animal. The bad thing about humans though, is that they have broken out of the cycle, from about 10.000 years ago during the neolithic revolution, when we learned things like farming and domestication of animals, and specially during the industrial revolution, when we really started on a destructive path, that might just become the end of earth as we know it, by what most scientists say.

    And I really just made the monkey remarks for fun, since I know atheists become like furious lemmings if someone say humans are not monkeys. But it is the truth. We have not evolved from monkeys. We are not even neanderthals. There's a 1% genetic difference, and that's a lot (!). My point: Humans, monkeys and neanderthals might have developed from the same source of some humanoid, prehistoric life-form, just like all other life-forms, but that's not the same as they are identical "races". A cod is not a herring, just because both are fish. In fact pigs seem to be just as close to humans, by how we can use their organs for transplants and how similar the fetus are. Prove me wrong :)

    And the same with your claim of "there is no god". Then give me evidence. The burden of proof is on you, making that statement. I myself have to admit I'm not sure. I do have faith, but that's not something scientific, so I can't prove it to be true. I can only advice others to study religion before talking about it like you know everything that is to be known, and using ignorance instead of knowledge to base these statements on.

    But I'll never grow up anyway, being adult all the time is quite boring.

  • Alv Vassdal

    "It's better to explain complicated things with simple words, then to explain simple things with complicated words" - A. Schopenhauer.

  • Achems_Razor

    No we are not monkeys. We are the human apes. Us human apes and monkeys have a common ancestor from whence we, the human apes, and monkeys have evolved from. That even includes the religee's. lol

    And according to the evolution time scale taking into account the time scale of the universe 13.7 billion years and the earth 4.5 billion years, we all came swinging down from the trees a very, very short while ago.

  • Alv Vassdal

    Still I think life-substance-soup is a better term, cause that's what we are like a hundred years from now. Some liquid form of life being absorbed into other parts of the big circle of life. No matter how it happens, it's quite impressive that it turns into what a religious person would call "human" and an atheist "human ape" (or anything else that is alive), even if I'm wrong and you are right, or the opposite, or none of it. Personally I hold on to "humanoid", as not to offend fellow Christians that don't like to think that God made us all from dirt, just like all other life-forms and that we all - just like beasts - die in the end (Ecclesiastes 3:19), and at the same time I don't want an angry mob of atheists after me, for trying to suggest something that would make them think that people are not monkey's, since I know about the clash between creationism vs Darwinism, but my problem is to agree both with basic science and religion, and to disagree with saints like Dawkins and Behe and anyone else joining into the spreading of hatred and ignorance, but I can see that it must be no hope in the idea of people with different beliefs sharing knowledge for the good of all, just by watching what goes on in the discussions here.

  • http://www.facebook.com/verlorenModus LaShell Cherrie

    atheists are like hockey teams, never missing a chance to pick a fight. unlike hockey, its a waste of time. :P

  • Glenn

    The author needs to rethink his/her position when he/she writes, "it makes no difference what you believe or how you feel best to live
    your life, so long as the same rights and freedoms that you enjoy are
    extended to everyone else."

    Of course, I am all for equal rights and freedoms for all people, but along with these indisputably fair desires the author slips in the notion that it makes no difference what one believes the way one might administer bitter medicine along with some sugar.

    In actuality, when people begin believing things for no rational reason, many bad things DO result and those bad things DO matter. Her are a few bad things that can result from irrational belief systems:

    Jihad

    Committing suicide ... for the virgins

    Sacrificing a being (a human or animal) to satisfy an imagined God

    Blessing someone after a sneeze to ward off evil spirits

    Killing a child prior to an expected end-of-the world event

    Wasting time, money, and energy on money on Feng Shui

    Wasting time praying, then looking for reasons the prayer was not answered ... then finding peace in "knowing" that God must have wanted that child to die of cancer for a worthwhile reason.

    Moving or changing jobs due to advice from a psychic

    Killing women who sank in water because sinking in water is a perceived sign from God that that women must be a witch.

    Killing people for religious blasphemy (defined as one who has the nerve to not have adopted the same irrational belief structure the murderer has).

    Organizing a movement against the adoption of lightning rods (which were seen as a circumvention of God's will to strike dead those He deemed needed it).

    Clipping off part of little boys' penises.

    Mutilating little girls' clitorises.

    Holding vigils to pray for the safe return of abductees, instead of actually looking for the person.

    Ostracizing and condemning those who are gay (who are also ostensibly creations of some all-powerful, perfect God).

    So, I'm all for equal rights and freedoms and all that, but when irrational belief structures evoke irrational behavior that impinges on others' rights and liberties, it's not all ok.

    Ok?

  • Glenn

    Good. Now talk to others around you to help them think better. (Incidentally, "loose" differs from "lose.")

  • Glenn

    You're funny, but which God?

  • Glenn

    Your argument is based on a lack of understanding of the underlying science. I could write much more to try to help you, but I'll simply encourage you to learn more about this subject. I promise that if you learned more about evolution and speciation, your stance would change.

    In general, keep an open mind until you've studied an issue well.

  • Glenn

    You missed the point. The writer does not really thinks birds would have such thoughts. By logical extension, however, a bird (if a bird could have such thoughts), may be equally likely to think that it was the embodiment of a special design from God just as humans do.

    His point came through to me clearly.

  • Glenn

    Consider your last sentence. You seem to equate beliefs with knowledge. Maybe you didn't mean to write that, but I suspect that you're not respecting the huge differences between untested and untestable belief structures, and empirical knowledge that has been tested and accepted. Beliefs reside in the supernatural. Knowledge is a product of reality. (And, never shall these two meet!)

  • Jeff B

    God created all of those facts or laws of which you speak in your documentary...they were placed there to govern and safeguard us, in the world that he created. However, he himself is not bound by those rules. That is why science will never be able to explain God. God is found only by faith. Only God could create something from nothing, But I will concede one thing...I will never have enough faith, as do biological evolutionists, to believe that I evolved from a monkey...and neither should you.

  • http://1iotofoto.wix.com/otofoto oQ

    "The more man clings to religion, the more he believes. The more he believes, the less he knows. The less he knows, the more stupid he is. The more stupid, the easier he can be governed! The easier to govern, the better he may be exploited. The more exploited, the poorer he gets. The poorer he gets, the richer and mightier the domineering classes get, the more riches and power they amass, the heavier their yoke upon the neck of the people."
    (Source: The God Pestilence (1883) by Johann Most)

  • Anomalous Hominid

    I think the soundest proof against the god of any theistic religion is the pathetic fervor with which believers cling to their blatantly false knowledge claims in order to bolster their sense of identity. Belief truly is for the faithless.

  • Anomalous Hominid

    It seems like what you're really looking for is Christian propaganda. Maybe you should just join a church, where they dole that crap out every week.

  • Anomalous Hominid

    Well, it roars and farts and belches for itself, anyway. I wouldn't say anything intelligibly coherent or productively communicative ever came out of it, so "speaks" gives it too much credit, LoL!

  • Anomalous Hominid

    Maybe life is it's own purpose, and our existence is not a duplicitous maze engineered by some sadistic celestial monarch. Has that possibility EVER occurred to you? Because it's a lot more fulfilling that the vapid cosmology of Christianity, wherein you simply cling desperately to a glorified game of make-believe in the hopes of being rescued from having been born. Sheesh, believers really think awfully little of life.

  • Anomalous Hominid

    Well written, but the narration leaves a great deal to be desired.

  • Anomalous Hominid

    Ya, God created all those natural laws and facts that contradict the myths written by his puppets. He sure is one sneaky douche.

  • shm sod paw

    this man bangs so fast, your head spins. by your i mean mine

  • coryn

    "Something from nothing is created constantly, (quantum mechanics)" -- Well, that's one of the current theories, now isn't it? As an old timer I'll stick with the idea that everything has always been here. Infinite matter and energy can be neither created nor destroyed, only transformed is another old idea. But people seem to want 'creation' for some reason, so then how does a 'God' get created from nothing? God has been here forever? We've still not really answered anything with all the thousands of gods and goddesses created by humans...... Think about it, would you create a world such as we see around us? How does a "perfect" Being create anything so stupid and insane as this human experience?