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God Is American

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Ratings: 6.00/10 from 3 users.

Storyline

God Is AmericanDuring WW II, the US navy used the island in Southern Pacific to build a military base and when the islanders met the American soldiers it was a tremendous cultural shock.

The islanders have believed that the Americans were demi-gods. During this period, John Frum, an American pilot landed on Tanna. No one knows him except the islanders.

They believe that John Frum is their prophet and they still wait for his return. Their customs have been shaped by this belief.

"...they (cargo cults) do provide a fascinating contemporary model for the way religions spring up from almost nothing. In particular, they suggest four lessons about the origin of religions generally" - as Richard Dawkins stated in The God Delusion, the documentary shows us the evolution of a religion.

Except that, this is a sad story of pride, loneliness and hopelessness.

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Comments and User Reviews

  • leonardobdas

    Is this proof that religion is BS or what?

  • Varun Rawat

    good doc!!

  • Guest

    Yes, religions are nothing more then a series of myths that are perpetuated from one generation to another, and then may be written in a book.

  • Guest

    Yes, religions are nothing more then a series of myths that are perpetuated from generation to generation.
    And then mat be written in a book.

  • Gary V

    @Vlatko
    Thanks for getting this doc, I thought that It was both interesting & funny. That's why I asked you to get it here for everyone else to watch & discus, it shows exactly how religion can start & how it can be passed down in just a short time & be believed as fact, this is how all religions started. Ridiculous isn't it. lol

    The first time that I watched this doc (a few weeks ago) I thought that it was an April fools joke but then I Googled it & found out that it was true. It's unbelievable what uneducated people will believe, It is only through education that we will ever get to rid the world of religion so that Humanity can finally start to progress without being held back by outdated ancient myths.

  • Gary V

    I hope that this doc can make a few people finally understand just how ridiculous & irrational religion is & how their ancient myths can easily be accepted as fact if people choose not to see things logically & rationally. I can understand how people believed these things thousands of years ago when they didn't know what we do today, but in 2011 I find it very hard to comprehend why they still do. I can only put it down to the fact that must be either misguided, Uneducated or wilfully ignorant. lol

    I can't wait to see what lame excuses some people are going to come out with to try to justify their illogical & irrational beliefs.

  • leonardobdas

    RIGHT ON TIME FOR THE RAPTURE TOMORROW! anyways, Im anxious to read the christians' take on this... my guess it will range from classic satanic possession to 'a misrepresentation of real christianity'. I can picture christians using the recent christian 'revolution' in Fiji (post coup) as a ways to show how magic and sorcery is no bueno...

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Gary V,

    I wrote a short essay for Vlatko.
    Judging from your post, here, I think you might enjoy it, too.

    ON THE NATURE OF FAITH

    As I write this, the essay can be found addressed to Vlatko on the second page of comments under Who Says Science has Nothing to Say About Morality? in the 'Science' section.

    Enjoy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rodrigo-Pereira/1066815623 Rodrigo Pereira

    This is a dangerous world, religion is pratically banned and turned into the biggest tabu, it's the first first step into a return of nazi like ideology, and people are so mentally washed up by a science sponsored by a ruthless capitalism that "they forgot that they forgot" what means to be human, not ready to read the profound messages found in scripture, they only see the superficial meanings, it's a sad world, the world with no God, is a world where humans don't have a common ground through which to communicate in love and peace.

  • over the edge

    "religion is pratically banned " ?? are you serious? the best estimates (worldwide) of atheistsnon-religious i found were 12-15% , you have a profound influence on politics and education in most countries. yes i feel sorry for you your 85-88% minority being forced to listen to the myths of the 12-15% majority ( hold it that doesn't sound right). then "the world with no God, is a world where humans don't have a common ground through which to communicate in love and peace". the world has had 28 000 000 gods (yes that it the best estimate). and still many today . looking at the struggles of today and a vast majority of the planet being religious. where is this universal love and peace you speak of? and at the arguable height of religion things weren't all peaches and cream. Christianities height was lovingly referred to as the dark ages. ah the good old days, well as long as you weren't a competing religion,female, non-white,poor,had medical issues, called a witch by your neighbor (who required no proof) or pissed off any of the religious superpowers of the day. those days were great all 30 years of your life

  • http://twitter.com/HeathrCalifrnia Heather Wade

    I've studied religions from all over the world for 20 years, and have come to the same conclusion. :)

  • Abhinav Asokh

    I would like to chip in and add that the amount of gods that you mention is over 28 million. Hinduism alone has about 330 million gods.

  • over the edge

    @Abhinav Asokh
    while my understanding of Hinduism is very limited i think the differences in numbers (not saying you are wrong) come down to the following quote
    “Hindu religion is often labeled as a religion of 330 million gods. This misunderstanding arises when people fail to grasp the symbolism of the Hindu pantheon. According to the Hindu scriptures, living beings are not apart from God, since He lives in each and every one of them in the form of atman. Thus each living being is a unique manifestation of God. In ancient times it was believed that there were 330 million living beings. " taken from a blog by NightHawk

  • House Of Pleasure

    Only about 1/6 of the world’s population do not believe in a god. That means 5/6 does believe in one god or an other. So what is this taboo you talk about?

  • eugler

    You are so right brother. Deep down in our hearts we know there is just one god and John Frum is his prophet. We should cleanse this world of the non-believers who suppress the truth that was given to us, they're doomed anyway. As soon as they are all gone, we will have a common ground again and the world will be at peace. Life will be perfect, only bested by the real paradise where we can dwell in his presence and praise him in eternity. Let's just hope there is enough room in the great canoe to take all of us true believers to the other side...

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001825191848 James del Valle

    Religion is evil, there really should be an athiest army created to defend the human race from the rest of the lunatics

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Oliver-Arguello/829995426 Oliver Arguello

    This type of Atheism sounds violent and pretty loony to me.

    I dont care if someone is atheist or a believer. As long as they can co-exist and live a happy loving life.

    I have heard the argument that religion begets violence. No....violent people beget violence no matter what they claim to believe ( your comment for example).

    The thing is this.....mentally disturbed people cater to their primal urge to kill/violence for whatever justified reason they can cling on to ( religion, liberation for the people, inferior races, my dog made me do it).

    In the end does it matter what people believe as long as they can co-exist? The root of the problem is not belief but lack of enlightenment due to immature tutelage based on what other people say is or isnt true. If you seek enlightenment you wont care what others believe as long as you can find internal peace and happiness.

  • Eniki520

    Religion is practically banned? what are you talking about? ever been to America, the middle east? religion s just as prevalent now as ever. you must not be living on the planet earth to say something so ridiculous.

  • Eniki520

    ahahahahahah

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SKS2PJ55ZTFKA7F6QKJEEB4UNQ Gnice

    complete rubbish

  • Gary V

    This is a dangerous world that is true, but please don't try to equate science with either Capitalism or Nazism (there is no such comparison how ever hard that you try to find one), science has no political agenda (Unlike religion), it does not seek to support any political agenda, it's only purpose is to objectively question & scrutinise everything & to try to find a logical & rational explanation to all the questions the we humans want to know the answers to. There are a few so-called scientists who try to manipulate the evidence in order to substantiate their misguided views, but their agenda is fast becoming more & more futile as the world is becoming more & more educated. We are all living in an age of outstanding technical & scientific discoveries & we all need to learn how to use this knowledge to the benefit of ALL of Humanity.

  • Gary V

    @James del valle.
    I'm glad that we finally agree on something. lol
    Although being a "Goddamn hippy" (although as I have said many times before that I prefer the term Secular Humanist) I do respect peoples right to believe in whatever $hit that they choose to as long as it does not affect anybody else. Secularism = the separation of the state & church. I believe that we should all have the the Human right of the freedom of religion, but more importantly that we should all have to the same Human right of freedom from religion. If that is what we choose.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ElmoPutz David Foster

    God is American ... I DO love that title!

  • http://www.facebook.com/ElmoPutz David Foster

    Science is only here to serve.... for a price.

  • wald0

    First, the Nazis were christians, at least they claimed to be. Hitler thought he was ordained by the christian god to lead the so called super human Germanic race to world dominance. Equating a secular scientific world view with what Hitler did reveals your ignorance of both Hitlers motivation and modern secularism. Modern secularism does not promote social darwinism nor eugenics, in fact Richard Dawkins wrote a whole book explaining the dangers of this way of thinking and the practical importance of altruism in the natural world. I am not saying Hitler was motivated by religion to do what he did, but he sure wasn't motivated by science or secularism and he was religious.

    Second, Religion in general is not banned anywhere on the globe. Certain faiths may be banned in certain areas but, thats because of-- you guessed it RELIGION. During the nineties here in the US religion held more influence over political beliefs than any other factor, and still runs very high on the list. The largest estimates put those that admit they do not believe at about 12-15 percent world wide, hardly the oppressive majority you describe. No, the truth is religion has been in the drivers seat for over two thousand years and still is to a large extent, have you looked out the window lately? How do you like the ride so far?

    @ Oliver

    Third, saying religion is not the problem people are makes a great arguement against religion. Think about it, that senario has three main contributing factors- religion, humans, and human nature. Now we can't remove humans from religion, or it ceases to exist. We certainly can't remove human nature from humans, if we could they would no longer be human. So what does that leave?

  • http://www.facebook.com/ElmoPutz David Foster

    Hear, Hear !!

  • http://www.facebook.com/ElmoPutz David Foster

    @Oliver: I think it was a joke... maybe...

  • http://www.facebook.com/ElmoPutz David Foster

    The dark ages was a direct result of the fall of Rome. That had nothing to do with Christianity; and everything to do with bad economics.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ElmoPutz David Foster

    "Is it not said that ye, yourselves are gods?" ~ Jesus. ... That should add a few more to the tally.

  • Gary V

    It is a good title I must agree, it shows the lack of intelligence & mentality of all those Americans who misguidedly think that they are made in the image of a non-existent God. Arrogance is not one of Humanity's best qualities is it? If God did (not that he ever has or ever will) exist then I very much doubt that he would ever want to be regarded as an American.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ElmoPutz David Foster

    Definitely not. Nor is Hubris.

  • Gary V

    @everybody.

    The whole point of me asking Vlatko to get this doc was to try to get people to understand the illogical & irrational thought behind religious beliefs. I'm sorry if anyone missed the point of my efforts. If you did then I'm sorry but you are obviously beyond help, carry on with your lives in total ignorant bliss, just don't make the rest of us be held back by your beliefs.That is all that I ask of you.

  • wald0

    I have never seen a religious ideaology so riddled with contradictions. I couldn't even follow the outlines of what they believe, they kept contradicting everything they said. They either think John Frum is a god or a devil, they either love the US or they want to blow it up because it is spiritually corrupt, they either want to live just like us or they frantically want to protect thier way of life from us, they worship John frum but only to get to Jesus, Frum lives in the volcano or the sea or his spirit resides in thier chief or he flew away on an airplane or he wonders the jungle giving women shots with a syringe, etc. The whole thing reminds me of that old movie The Gods Must be Crazy.

  • wald0

    I am an athiest myself, but I assure you that christians here do not believe god is American. They believe all humans, not just Americans, were created in gods image. Still a silly belief considering the advances we have made in biology and cosmology, but not as silly as limting it to Americans only.

    That said, you didn't really think you were going to change anyones mind about god with a documentary on TDF did you? Thats just as diluded as believing in the magical carpenter friend. If you think peoples religious convictions are that easily derailed you have much to learn about religion and its effects on people.

  • Guest

    May i ask what makes you a Hippie? az

  • Gary V

    @Azilda
    My long hair & flared jeans. lol. No my views about war. I was born 10 years too late to be a Hippie, I was just a baby in the 60's. ? & ?

  • Gary V

    @wald0
    No I didn't really think Americans believe that God is American or that this doc would change anybody's views about religion. I was just trying to be sarcastic about David's comment above, that & the bottle of Jack Daniels that I had last night. I do apologise for my stupid comment. There are two things that should never be discussed after drinking large amounts of alcohol, religion & politics. Well for me anyway, although I can get quite philosophical when I've had a few, usually just before I pass out. lol

  • misterwong

    Christians tomorrow evening will be too busy to comment on anything,being either ascending or descending,as the Rapture gets into full swing.If indeed that happens,the only thing they might share is "SEE,We TOLD you so..."

  • misterwong

    This was fascinating to me.A primitive people are visited and enlightened by a prophet from far away,USA,a mythic heavenly place where amazing wealth and strange treasures come from.He then mysteriously vanishes,(like Hoffa) or may still be among us(like Elvis)but will gloriously return to validate the faithful and vanquish the enemy.The reality and facts are unknown but the story of 60 years
    ago has already taken mythic proportions.Imagine what happens to a story in say,2000 years? Vlatko,you are right tho ,I was touched by the sadness of it all,The blind futility of their devotion.And in a place which could be heaven itself

  • misterwong

    "..weapons of Mass Destruction..our Intellegence revealed.."GW
    "I am NOT a crook"RM
    "I DID NOT have sex with that woman Monica Lewinski"WJ
    "There's no looting in Bagdhad,you're seeing the same film over and over"Donald R
    ",,The United States and her allies have prevailed.."GW
    " A kinder,gentler Nation"HW
    It's unbelievable what educated people will believe,too. Sorry to stray off our subject

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_P2ETGIIZVRM6D3QEIP7X2TKP6Y Chih Seng Simon Ho

    i first thought that this place is neutral and unbiased , guess i am wrong . time to get out of here.

  • Gary V

    @misterwong

    True, knowledge is only a good thing if you have also got the intelligence to know how to use it wisely. Unfortunately none of the above have.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ElmoPutz David Foster

    So, are you throwing a keg party? My neighbor is.

  • Guest

    Surprised to see we lost Achems Razor and Zatarra.
    Leads me to believe their statements no longer represents their views?
    az

  • http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/about/ Vlatko

    @Azilda,

    He has some problems with his computer. And I guess he deleted the profile at Disqus. He will be back an he will claim his comments... I think.

  • leonardobdas

    This documentary makes religion even more irrelevant for me. But does it make god irrelevant too? thoughts?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rodrigo-Pereira/1066815623 Rodrigo Pereira

    The biggest kill was Stalinist e Chinese regimes both atheísts.
    It's a philosophical problem.
    People need common ground through which to communicate and share meaning and value.
    If that ground is earthly it's already corrupt because it is not held as sacrate.
    So humanity only unites if it is united from above. From something higher than humanity which we thrive to achieve.
    The message of Christ it´s the most powerfull story ever told.
    His only ambition is the love for the other and this is the most important statement made by the biggest religions.
    The other is more important than ourselves, and Christ died on the Cross to show the extreme example of someone who gives everything for the other.

    Politics use religion, War uses Religion It's all a big Lie.
    If we look everything is provoked in the name of control of resources, and blame it on religion cause the atheíst/capitalist newbys will think that they got nothing to do with it.

    See all the things in recent times you think were provoked by religion were in fact only provoked so you and i can continue to live your live this lifestyle.

    Some of the most profound and inteligent things i've read were from believers not from depressed existencialists.
    I have been all my life against religion, i even have a hard time dealing with faith.
    But when i look to the world i understood that a world without God, without that common ground isn't a world worth living.

  • wald0

    No, this doc doesn't make god irrelevant to me. As an athiest he was already irrelevant to me. This doc just shows how it is possible for myths to be created from ordinary occurrences, and how devout and convienced of the reality of those myths people can be. It also shows how people, when cut off from education and information, can become completely immersed in some wild senseless fantasy, how they will refuse to hear anything different when their belief system is challenged, how they will adapt thier beliefs to serve thier own purposes, how they will use those beliefs to assert control over the population, etc. In other words it tells us tons about human nature and how societies are structured but, doesn't really address whether god exists or not. At least that was my take on it.

  • Guest

    Perhaps it makes the GOD of religion wrongly described, i wouldn't go as far as irrelevant because to many it is very relevant. God will only be described right, when we change "entirely" it's description.
    We have circling this point for eons.
    az

  • wald0

    Thats a low shot Azilda, and you know it. Achem isn't here to defend himself or his beliefs, maybe we shouldn't put words in his mouth? I have no idea why he has gone, perhaps Vlatko is right and he just has computer issues, but I do know his beliefs were not that fickle and he had enough integrity to tell us if he changed his mind. He wouldn't just run away. Many of the people I have debated on this site are no longer here, am I to believe they all now agree with me?

  • UnderSiege

    Every human being has a serious responsibility to be as intelligent and well informed as possible, in order that others are not injured through our ignorance.

    A mere 15 or so generations past the belief in witches was almost universal, except for the 'educated classes' , and the madness [ignorance] which afflicted Europe for over three centuries cost 100,000 lives in Germany alone, before it ended.

    Today, such beliefs are largely absent in the West; including leprechauns, faeries, elves, poltergeists, and numerous others. Yet curiously, the same ignorant mob who now reject these former myths as false and laughable, fail to see that their beloved gods fall under the same mantle of incredulity and absence of proof.

    This documentary is a contemporary example of how religions can spontaneously appear through hopelessness, greed, and ignorance. I think Harpers Index once stated that every year over three hundred (300) new religions are invented? I believe this suggests, as Agnes Repplier has remarked, that the main problem with the human species is a "general lack of intelligence".

  • UnderSiege

    Paraphrasing Diderot; if we go back to the beginning we shall find that fear is the essential ingredient in religious beliefs.

    Auguste Comte, [1799-1857 - Logical Positivism] characterised human mental evolution as passing through three stages. In the first step men embraced animistic concepts which grew from a certain view and fear of Nature, etc. The second step he defined as "religious"; which is where the majority of humanity is still foundering.
    Comtes' final phase is the scientific...in which men reject any form of speculation [viz., metaphysics] about objective reality that cannot withstand the scrutiny of scientific methodology.

  • Guest

    low shots?
    His dissapearance lead me to think a reason. Valtko lead me to think the reason was invalid. Your comment lead me to think you care for his opinion. I lead you to think i put words in his mouth. and for some reason i lead you to think that i think that he now agrees with me...
    Here's a lead....i am happy he will be back.
    az

  • Yavanna

    Meet the natives is far better a doc. And much more entertaining.

    5/10

  • wald0

    The site is nuetral and unbiased. They show alot of docs in support of religion and creationism, not just anti-religious or evolutionist documentaries. I would submit that the reason more people support science on this site is because it is a site that shows documentaries and most secularists love documentaries. Not that the religous people don't, just that more secularist do. Secularists tend to be people that value education over anything else, it is natural that they would flock to a site dedicated to showing only documentaries. Religous people tend to value spirituality over everything else. Wow, I can't seem to find a way of saying what I am trying to say without it sounding like I am strereo-typing groups of people. I hope you see what I mean.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_JNAXPFUEZIYKSOHJ7O3GJKGNZI Ted

    Can't you get someone to write these synopses, or introductions, to these documentaries who is reasonably literate?

  • UnderSiege

    Correct...it is and always will be "a dangerous world", as long as men remain ignorant...killing and maiming over fables.

    "Nazi like ideology" perfectly describes prevailing religious intolerance and has nothing to do with science. "Ruthless capitalism" is another subject, and not much related to this documentary.
    Your naivete would be amusing, if it did not dangerously blind you to contemporary realities.
    The greatest threat in my view is the religious superstition which divides a large portion of humanity. Even to the extent of the absurd internecine conflicts which rage within the three monotheistic faiths!

    Apparently your God is heartless, impotent, or non existent?

    Try this formula, which apart from some scientific phenomenon is a valid guide: if you can't see it, touch it, smell or taste it...IT doesn't exist.

  • http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/about/ Vlatko

    Sorry about that @Ted. I'll try to correct any mistakes wherever I spot them.

  • leonardobdas

    I thought it was pretty good Vlatko.

  • leonardobdas

    It was pretty easy to make religion irrelevant for me. It makes sense: wars, false promises, ilogical rethoric and straight up BS.

    But God? How did you make that irrelevant in your life Waldo, if you don't mind answering? I mean, how do you have the balls to do that? By God I mean "the mistery", the systems of the universe that made everything and have the answer "why and for what purpose am I here"...

    At this moment in life I see it as incredibly arrogant of myself to make such a broad judgment about life.... such as God does not exist. At least without knowing enough... or at least feeling like I know enough. Does that make sense?

    As a special remark, most of that 'felling' has to do with a real physical sensation I have when I think about the ethernal loneliness of death...which is very similar to the feeling of claustrophobia I get inside a cat scan machine.... so funny...

  • Norm

    It's hard to decide which are more informative and interesting, the films or the comments that accompany them. I didn't realize you lived in the states wald0, not that it really matters, but so do I. I always look forward to reading your posts, you seem to have consistent and cohesive thoughts about a wide range of complex subjects.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Rodrigo-Pereira/1066815623 Rodrigo Pereira

    It´s very naíve to say that science doesn't have a political agenda...

    . Anti-aging
    . gadgets
    .Internet
    . Big cities and destruction of living in community by mocking peoples traditions and beliefs formed in hundreds of years.
    . Technology is the agenda.
    Today technology substituted Ideology.

  • Norm

    Take it easy Gary. I have enjoyed reading your comments on this site so far and I hope that the generalization about Americans was due to you being irritated with the one who happens to be a thorn in your side at the moment. It's my opinion that with the way mankind has mismanaged the planet your last statement is correct except for the last word. "If God did (not that he ever has or ever will) exist then I very much doubt he would ever want to be regarded as an" earthling.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ElmoPutz David Foster

    "killing and maiming over fables." .. Heh! You mean like "Democracy"?

    (sorry... had to say it)

  • Gary V

    I don't really understand how finding a solution to ageing can be called a political agenda, I'm also struggling to find one for gadgets, the creation of the internet (although this can be used as a tools for political agendas) & technology. As for "Big cities and destruction of living in community by mocking peoples traditions and beliefs formed in hundreds of years." I'm not sure what it is that you are trying to say here, but if you mean that the building a big cities has brought the breakdown of a feeling of being part of a community then I agree, but to suggest that this due to science is absurd to say the least. It is due to our insane attempt to try to over populate the planet that cities have grown so large & to go back to "mocking peoples traditions and beliefs formed in hundreds of years." It is exactly because some of us still cling to those outdated myths that Humanity has not progressed as far as we could have. The reason that technology has substituted the outdated ideology is because that is the whole point of progress, to move forward.

  • Gary V

    @Norman Carr

    If you read the comment below yours you will see that I did apologise for getting a bit carried away & I agree with you that it is never a good thing to make generalisations about anybody. I did say "all those Americans who misguidedly think that they are made in the image of a non-existent God." not that all Americans do believe it. I know that there are some sane ones amongst you. lol. No I really should try not to be quite so sarcastic with my comments, but that is just my dry/warped sense of humour.

  • Norm

    @ wald0
    True enough. Ever since I accidentally found this site my views have changed tremendously. I found myself in the midst of a paradigm shift and was actually fearful as years of programed "opinions" were slowly replaced by logical and concrete answers. When I suddenly realized that most of the things that had been taught to me were incorrect, I spent a couple of months in near panic. If I would have "got out of here", then I believe my days would still be spent with an uncertainty that was getting to be quite uncomfortable. Instead, i dove in, re-wired my views and have become a more complete person. I don't agree with everything I see or read here, but I do give it thought. At least I no longer blindly follow beliefs or ideas because "that's the way it's always been". A debt of gratitude and a thank you goes out to Vlatko and the regulars who post here.

    I hope revealing this piece of personal information wasn't inappropriate. This site has been partially responsible for a 180 degree turn for the better.

    Thank you!

  • http://www.youtube.com/MadXMax187 Mad

    What on earth was he smoking?

  • http://www.youtube.com/MadXMax187 Mad

    The part about 9/11 really cracked me up, I'm still giggling because it was so silly. The official story is so retarded I can see how it blends into this man's religion perfectly along with other myths.

  • SIDsays

    Fascinating...."POPE" Issac the last.....and the BS that he threw to his gullable followers............I'm an ex catholic.....and this film suggests to me that all religions may have, and still are, being conjured up in similar fashion...I'll be thinking of this film for quite some time...especially the holy trip up to the Volcano / Mount Sinai ??? where the rumbling spirits talk to Issac / Moses ???....9 out of 10

  • tomregit

    Geez Ted, what part was illiterate or inaccurate? Your criticism is less than non constructive since it fails to even point out what you feel is wrong. Please expound.

  • tomregit

    If one was wealthy it would be an interesting, though perhaps cruel, experiment to bring cargo to the John Frum cult then walk in to be proclaimed the messiah. Not suggesting it's a good idea, but.....
    It wouldn't require much of an investment for a rich megalomaniac to have a fanatically loyal following.

    OK...Ok...I know...I'm just saying. ;O)

  • Achems_Razor

    There is nothing wrong about the writing to these intro's, or synopses, maybe English is not the persons first language, in my books it is pretty damn good. Has nothing to do with literacy!

    English is also not my first language, have three languages under my belt, how many languages do you have Hmmm?

  • http://www.facebook.com/ElmoPutz David Foster

    I think there might be one or two commas missing, but beyond that....

  • http://www.facebook.com/bobbyemmett123 Bobby Emmett

    'Edimbourg' was bad. When it's the name of a country's capital city it's important to make sure you get the spelling right

  • leonardobdas

    genius. im gonna grow a beard and buy some Frankincense and myrrh!

  • tomregit

    @ Bobby Emmett: ??? Where does it say Edimbourg?? What am I missing? BTW, there should be a full stop (period) to end your final sentence. Very important to use proper syntax and punctuation. :0)

  • leonardobdas

    bazinga! and yes I am pretty sure vladko is from Russia.... and russian is the hardest language there is to learn...

  • Fake Name

    I like to go camping , and when I'm camping it really comes home to me, how utterly spoiled I am. I don't mean I get everything I want, I mean when I'm too hot I turn on the A/C, when I'm dirty I get into a hot shower, when I'm hungry I nuke something in the Microwave. Given the choice between a straw hut with a dirt floor, maybe some grass to sleep on, or my home with sturdy walls and insulation, Ill take my home. I'm not saying the whole world should be paved, I just think we forget how good we have it, especially when we think somehwere like Tanna could be heaven.

  • Fake Name

    That's something I love about religious extremists, if you ask them if they believe in magic, they get offended, but when you ask if they believe Mosses spoke to a burning bush they are certain he did. Strange to say the least.

  • Gary V

    @Vlatko

    Don't take any notice of Ted, the rest of us all think that you are doing an excellent job with this site. I am very grateful for all the hard work that you do so that we can all enjoy these docs.

  • UnderSiege

    That's a very interesting viewpoint...probably salubrious, as well as blatantly honest.
    I envy those who are so easily pleased with their lot that adventure nevers attacks their minds. Sincerely. The gypsy in my soul has been at a cost more painful than pleasurable.

    Excuse me now Faker, REGIT and I have got a cargo we must get to Tanna.

    REGIT...ohhhh REGIT...have we got the rum on board ? Never mind, feel free to bring anything else which conjures up magic delusions.

  • tomregit

    Rum is cached and I see leonardobdas making his way down the quay. Is that a bag of bud over his shoulder? Let's ask Azilda, Epicurean_Logic, Epicurus (I sometimes get you guys mixed up), Achems & anyone else you'd like to invite on our adventure. Vlatko, if you're on board you're captain. Psinet, my apologies for past head butting. C'mon along.

  • PaulGloor

    Saddening, frightening and amusing all in one.
    They lost their kastom with John From and Jesus Christ. The frightening part is they maintain it with such tenacity. I doubt anyone could tell them differently and expect a warm reception. Its too bad their golden age wasn't of their own making.

    'Its always white people that film'

  • UnderSiege

    Mr.REGIT! A whole "bag"? Roll out the carpet, mate.

    Batten down the hatches and hoist the main sail. Keep a sharp watch out for pirates, whilst I sample the 'cargo'.

    Hi ho, hi ho it's off to sea we go,

    we'll drink some rum and then get numb,

    hi ho, hi ho, hi ho.

    "Better to travel than to arrive". [Hindu proverb]

  • His Forever

    And your point was?

  • Guest

    Not sure what the question is but i'll say camping is a way of life for me. Last year i travelled through Mexico and Guatemala in my little Ford Escort, i had taken the back seat out and created a bed. For four months i either slept in my car or in a mini tent i was carrying, i also had coffee machine in which i made coffee and then oatmeal in the morning.
    Living in BC, camping on a lake/river is the thing to do on week-ends.
    I can just imagine sitting around a fire with a bunch of smart atheists and theists...i would be the one with the best buds for sure!
    az

  • Guest

    My guess is: religious people believe in the bible's magic tricks.

    If a new savior was to come to earth, 99.9% of religious people would not believe in him/her(specially if it was a her), because they do not think that a human can be above all others although they do believe Jesus Christ had to be!?????

    A new savior would have to support Christianity for the christians, buddhism for the buddhist, Islam for the Muslim...ect...and even then.

    I say the savior will be a Spiritual Scientist, one who will dare to say, GOD exist and here is how far you were from it's description.
    May be GOD is You as in your dream, unbounded, unmaterial, but so real at the same time.
    az

  • Guest

    @tomregit...are you saying i would be the only female? You would have a great cook...worked for the movie industry as a craft (main cook) person.
    Still let's invite WTC7, i like her cut here and there.
    Made me wonder....if every guy came and did not say who they are, would we recognize their identity? They do seem to agree a lot!
    az

  • Corne du Plessis

    I am one of those irrational and naive believers which all of you are referring to in your posts. As difficult as it is for you atheists to comprehend that we believe in a "non-existent god" its just as difficult for me to comprehend that there are people on this earth that haven't had any divine, holy or godly event or intervention in their lives which can only be rationalized as being of or caused by an unseen unknown powerful being. You think its stupid that we pray to something that apparently doesn't exist but how can you convince me it doesn't exist if many of my prayers has been answered in such a way that it is simply impossible to explain it away as merely being due to random chance, luck or coincidence. I believe in science as well but to claim that we are merely beings that evolved from whichever animal is to my logic simply idiotic since we are the only species to possess intelligence and on top of that, each and every living person are unique. So why would we humans be the only ones with intelligence and possess individual uniqueness? why didn't any other species evolve to our level of thought and self awareness? Did Darwin have an answer for that? If he did please let me know.

  • UnderSiege

    "Santayana wrote, "miracles are propitious accidents, the natural causes of which are too complicated to be readily understood".

    For your average person, Alfred North Whiteheads' observation that, "it is more important that a proposition be interesting than true", explains much about the adherents of myth & superstition.

    Excepting some natural phenomenon, [gravity, etc.] , a guiding principle may be stated thusly; if you can't SEE it, TOUCH it, SMELL or TASTE it...it doesn't exist.

  • Achems_Razor

    It does not matter "what" you pray to, be it gods or your favorite statue, or something else that you "Think" gives you power, or pray to nothing at all, because you want something bad enough it will set a series of changes in motion, because you do form your own reality, every nan- second by your course of probable actions that will lead you to different paths. Hopefully for the better. "It is all in the mind"

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Gros/1267365077 John Gros

    Humans are not the only ones with intelligence, and are not the only ones with uniqueness. I have owned many cats and dogs in my life and each had its own personality, each had its own level of intelligence, each looked different from the other.
    It can be shown that whales, dolphins, elephants, and pigs are highly intelligent, they just don't have voice boxes that would allow speech. Though we cannot be sure that whales and elephants do not have language at frequencies we cannot hear.
    Questions for you, if we are made by god, why is our eye so badly designed? Why does the nerve and blood vessels cross the light sensing surface? Why is the light sensing surface facing the back of the eye? Why does the nerve attach on the front of the light sensing surface giving us a blind spot? These are all very simple to spot design flaws, no human would ever design an eye with these flaws. It seems your god is more stupid than most of the animals you think have no intelligence.

  • Corne du Plessis

    You know what I meant by intelligence so please don't try to compare the intelligence of animals to ours, you don't see a pig or a dolphin that can do maths do you? so your point to me is irrelevant on that issue. And I cannot really comment on your questions regarding the human eye since I am not educated in anatomy or physiology but even though the eye (according to you) has design flaws it is still a functioning organ allowing you to perceive your surroundings and world effectively isn't it so how then can it be wrongly designed when it serves it purpose? And you can attack God, Jesus or my beliefs all you like, I wont take offense since its your personal opinion, and you are entitled to it. I merely posted a question to get and objective and educated answer but unfortunately I am still awaiting the reponse I was hoping for..

  • Corne du Plessis

    so particles,dark matter,black holes,dust mites etc do not exist since you cannot see touch smell or taste it? just asking.

  • Corne du Plessis

    Thanks for the reply. I have to agree with you that our choices and actions sets in motion changes or events that will manifest our desires and goals eventually, I can't however agree that's its all in the mind since i believe (personal opinion) that no matter which paths we follow we will inevitably end up where we were destined to be, or obtained that which we sought out, regardless of how we got there or which choices we made.

  • Achems_Razor

    @Corne du Plessis:

    I respect your beliefs, but to my way of thinking, their is no such thing as destiny.

    Destiny is what you make it, according to quantum physics, many worlds theory, everything that will, or will not, or even what you think may happen, already happened, even though, we still have free will and can pull our (if you will) static snapshots, forever frozen in time one by one from our static picture book album to form our ongoing reality every Planck second even as we speak.

    To give you an example, you can change you own destiny right now, a simple example, flip a coin, if it lands on heads, you will go visit someone, if it lands on tails, you will go shopping instead, by doing that simple action you are putting a series of events in motion that will lead to an entirely new reality for you, it could be minor or major, from just a coin toss.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=516483012 Mikel Angelo

    I was raised christian and went to church every sunday as a child, i used to pray and ask for things often games toys football boots etc. but what can i say i was only little... anyway on occasions i would ask for non-material things such as not to be in pain when i was ill, to no avail. I was told (pretty much) that it was because God had more important things to fix, and that in the grand scheme of things what i was asking for was not important enough. That seemed fair enough. But then I never understood why God would let millions of people starve to death, allow slavery, child abuse, and many other fucked up things to go on in the world. If you can enlighten me please do.

    I also always wondered why God would not jus speak to the world rather than passing messages along via "prophets" priests etc. surely if he's all powerful he'd speak for himself.

    You say you find it difficult to "to comprehend that there are people on this earth that haven't had any divine, holy or godly event or intervention in their lives which can only be rationalized as being of or caused by an unseen unknown powerful being"
    I take it you believe that you have had something special happen? "many of my prayers has been answered in such a way that it is simply impossible to explain it away as merely being due to random chance, luck or coincidence" What was it? Also just because someone doesn't know the reasoning for something that happens does that automatically mean its the work of God? I have seen and heard of things happening which can't be explained but simply think... S*** Happens

    You also say "no matter which paths we follow we will inevitably end up where we were destined to be..." so fate then? what happened to free will? what about people dying of lung cancer, even if they didn't smoke would they still have got it?

    Anyway thats my little rant over, jus a few things to think about...

  • Corne du Plessis

    I will not attempt to convince you that there is such a thing as destiny but to me personally without destiny there is no purpose to life and without purpose what the hell are we doing here? Surely the mere purpose of life cant simply be to "just survive" or obtain knowledge, power, wealth, happiness, knowledge to the best of our abilities and randomness of our choices / circumstances just to eventually kick the bucket and let it start all over again through another human? I know its pointless to try and attempt to debate the purpose of life but my curiosity into these kind of matters is a recent development and am merely trying to get as much opinions on these kind of matters since it enables me to question my own and thus grow in my understanding and reasoning. (I am not English so i do apologize if I am not expressing myself clearly or correctly).

  • Achems_Razor

    @Corne du Plessis:

    I also am not trying to convince, just giving my viewpoints.

    Destiny means: A predetermined course of events. It may be conceived as a predetermined future.

    It is impossible to conceive of the future, to many variables and probabilities that will come into play.

    Even the (unobserved) past as we think we know it, will be completely different, just by the act of thinking about the past we are changing it, forming new probabilities for our past, therefore a different past. Our past is not a real thing, only in our minds. (That is from Stephen Hawking) book "The grand design". We only live in our fleeting "NOWS" always, that turn into the past every Planck second.

    Again am not knocking your beliefs, but our purpose in life is us, a consciousness, trying to know our selves and why are we here? What is the universe? I sort of believe in the evolution of consciousness that is forever striving to better itself.

    That I suppose is why some people turn to their gods for answers, but no invisible entities will give any answers, and/or especially from any books written in the bronze ages. When they thought the world was flat and our world was the centre of the universe, and everything was made just for us little tiny carbon units.

  • Demoorelizer

    To say that animals cannot do math is idiotic. We represent math with numbers, if you are saying animals cannot do numeric math that is plausible, if you ignore the several pets and other animals which can recognize speech and interpret math problems. But whenever a gazelle sprints off at say 45mph at an angle a cheetah must do a large amount of math in its head to find the best angle of pursuit. Just because this isn't written down on a piece of paper with numbers to represent whats happening doesn't mean it is not math.

  • Demoorelizer

    When a man gets down on his knees to pray, you'll know he'll find what he is able, but chances are he'll find it either way. That is my stance on prayer. If it worked 100% of the time it would make much more sense. Just for shits and giggles to see if god exists I will pray for things scientifically impossible, to see if he exists. If I do this for a year and none of my prayers are answered then we should have an answer, I implore you to do the same thing, that way we have a large sample pool and some Christians can't say that I am not Christian enough for God to listen to me.

  • Top_Quark

    just adding to the destiny debate:

    Nothing is determined, it’s all probabilistic. Uncertainty Principle implies that it is impossible to simultaneously both measure the present position while "determining" the future momentum of an electron or any other particle with an arbitrary degree of accuracy and certainty.

    Also per Chaos Theory small differences in initial conditions (such as those due to rounding errors in numerical computation) yield widely diverging outcomes for systems, rendering long-term prediction impossible in general. The Butterfly Effect comes to mind.

    Again nothing can be predicted or determined with accuracy which apparently scientists seem to love as per Lawrence Krauss,

    “Scientists love mystery, they love not knowing, the excitement of not knowing about the universe is so different than the sterile aspect of religion where the excitement is apparently of knowing everything ”

  • UnderSiege

    Have you understood my words-or are grasping at straws like so many metaphysicians do when cornered?

    I purposely did not list ALL the exclusions which might apply to testing 'concrete reality'.

    Dust mites I "feel". One 'mite' be trolling for dust at this very hour.

    [UnderSiege scratches himself vigorously]

  • Achems_Razor

    @leonardobdas:

    No, even I have tried many moons ago, or should I say many posts ago, to determine Vlatko's heritage. I myself thought he may be a fellow countryman of USSR stock. But he denies such, and of course it is his prerogative to remain "incognito". (LOL)

  • Jack1952

    That is why prayer should be qualified with a "thy will be done". Now when nothing happens you still have an answer.

  • Imightberiding

    That's actually a good idea. There would need to be a very large cross section of "believers" & "non-believers" involved in this survey/study. Of course when ultimately nothing transpires from this experiment, the Christians or devout of... take your pick, would only respond with: "God didn't answer your prayers because you weren't sincere" or "you didn't have (enough) faith" or "He will not be tested in such a way, it's sacrilege."

    I personally would be very happy to see correct, non-biased large scale surveys regarding the fact or fiction of prayer, as well as the many other toxic regimens & beliefs inflicted upon so many hopeful yet gullible people (young & old) seeking truth or even just comfort. This should be conducted at the church's expense & moderated by a third incorruptible census broker (if such a thing even existed).

    I am a survivor of unimaginable child rearing techniques, principles & parenting abuses beyond description. Don't worry, don't call 911. I'm a grown man now & for all intents & purposes reasonably well adjusted & even somewhat normal as far as human behavioral responses in a westernized adult male are concerned. At least this is what most of my therapists have reassured me. What I mean to say is; I am a "Preacher's Kid". My entire family on both sides going back generations. Siblings, cousins, nephews, nieces, aunts, uncles, grand parents, great grand parents, are; ordained ministers, missionaries, evangelists, teachers, moderators, heads of faculty, founding members & guest lecturers at several different bible colleges, churches & missionary outposts & head quarters throughout the world. Actually both my parents were/are ordained ministers. I almost received my ordination while pursuing a path (god's path for me) towards a life as a missionary. Thankfully after two years of theological studies at an extremely (how do I put it?) serious? dedicated? fervent? committed? extreme? crazy? school, I saw the real light! The light of reason, logic, questioning & healthy scepticism.

    If only a few could be saved!?! From all this smothering religion that is. Especially the innocent young who willingly swallow everything they are fed by their parents. Crazy breeds crazy. Crazy feeds crazy. Crazy teaches crazy.

    @D
    We need a huge internationally advertised campaign just like you mentioned. Something that people as a collective whole could do together so it would finally have to be believed & accepted. That is to debunk all the crazy religious fairy tales. As you said, prayer would be a great place to start.

    Sorry I ended up going on longer than originally intended. Just wanted to add: @Achems Razor, well said. @Jack1952, that's the point I guess. What is the point? His or Thy will be done means it's going to happen whether we ask for it or not. So again, what's the point of prayer except perhaps to remind the almighty of what he's going to do anyway?

  • UnderSiege

    I can identify with your words, "I am a survivor of unimaginable child rearing techniques, principles & parenting abuses beyond description."
    What makes you exceptional and wiser is that rare capacity to transcend environmental influences. From early on we are tormented by a host of well intentioned fools who think they have knowledge, when all they have is a narrow dogma. 'Critical thinking' is unknown to them, or to be avoided, as it raises doubt about their psychological reality.

    The average man cannot separate fact from fiction, nor can he escape the piety absorbed at his Mother's breast.

  • Guest

    my guess Croatia
    az

  • Guest

    GOD is Worldly and so is Evil
    GOD is energetic and so is Evil
    GOD is the energy the "i" dispursed and so is Evil

    There are two pools of energy, the harmonious and the discordant, those pools are filled with everyone's energy.
    Every one contain those energies, therefore GOD and Evil is the "i".
    Whatever actions and reactions one poses towards someone, one knows instantly what energy is emanating from the "i", all you have to do is close your eyes and feel, silence will tell. In that moment you know if you are feeding GOD or Evil.
    It is as simple as that.
    SO on a small scale, the more people are harmonious, honest, diplomat, tolerant, giving, loving the more the GOD pool fills and the more it empties the Evil pool.

    Religion has confused people by telling them that GOD is something outside of them. I agree to a religious person praying may be good but what is ever better is to be nonsectarian and to be insectarian....a little turn of words that says "work together"!

    GOD is the mirror and so is Evil, what you see is what you get.
    God is American, Italian, French, Chinese, African...God is us all.
    Where do you want your energy to go?

    Try it, write a reply to a comment and call the person a fruitcake, stupid, ignorant or whatever destructive name calling and close you eyes....see what energy filters out of you from it.
    az

  • Guest

    and the rest is science, the concrete part of the self that pushes one to want to know the unknown.
    God is not anything other than energy, your energy. Science is the vehicule to drive it with, Religions are the brakes, energetic spirituality is the gaz pedal.
    az

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/A-Mith-Kurian/584234746 A-Mith Kurian

    when do we attain nirvana ?? how do we attain moksha ??

  • Guest

    the rabbit hole means the depth of oneself"s, the deeper you go within, the crasier you think you may be getting....the closer you are getting...and the rest is to realize that you are going back in time, you have been there!
    az

  • UnderSiege

    Azilda dear....your highness....most holy of holies...I implore you to use your divine powers to recapture my dissipated testosterone, moribund libido, and squandered, feckless youth which deeply haunts me in old age.

    I know it is difficult to imagine a loose, wrinkly old bag 'o bones romping in the boudoir with erect phallus, spindly legs, bald, toothless, squeaking & slavering ; "it's a miracle, it's a miracle"....someone get me a broad!!!

    Now show us your 'stuff' Zilli, for didn't Plato profess; "even the GODS love a good joke"? :-)

  • Guest

    Is this a suggestion for an experiment? Not sure where your siege is but we could try a little distant energetic magic.
    Now a few questions.
    How old is old age?
    We have a saying in french "y'a un torchon pour chaque guenille"!...are you willing to get down on your knees?
    What's your best asset? any?
    Keep in mind that being single is the best though! I know.
    Zilly az

  • UnderSiege

    "Experiment"? "Magic"?

    Go right ahead Zilly, if you enjoy dissecting dead frogs.

    "Best asset"? At this moment I'd guess incipient Alzheimers, which is Nature's merciful tabla rasa for a life lived too naughty, too perilous, and too long.

    Incidentally,"keep in mind", "a man alone is in bad company" , but Nietzsche suggested otherwise when he admonished,
    "when thou goest to woman do not forget thy whip".

    Us

    PS) Are creative flights of fantasy euphemisms for sociopathic liars? What a coincidence....4:20pm

  • Guest

    I ate quite a few frog legs in my life, i even went hunting for them once on acid. Long long time ego. Never dissected one in school, never had any science classes in my life other than by life itself.
    I have to cut this short, my daughters and i are off to town. I will do as my mom used to do when i was a teenager. I will walk behind my two gorgious girls and realise that my youth is still alive.
    az

  • leonardobdas

    It is not whether I believe in god or not, nor that I fear death or not. It is that I yearn for the feeling of being eternally conscious of some sort of 'complete' sensation of of happiness. As an analogy, it is as if I would take 5 extacy pills and be high forever, floating about the universe. So there it is.... that is what I see as godly.... or heaven if I may.

    Other than that, fatally I am afraid, I see life as a total mystery which I have no idea of a so called higher purpose, reality or why some people have it worse or better than I, which is why I find it so puzzling to begin with: life seems so unfair that it is unfathomable to me to see why God would make us so jealous and needy, to name a few hard sensations we have as humans.

    It goes unsaid that I am quite aware of what normal life is, which is satisfying, but certainly not a dream. Which brings a point to the surface: I do want a ferrari, a memory and wits of the likes of tim minchin, the discerning intellect of hitchens, the golden ratioed looks of some holywood star and 8000 unjealous russian mail order brides......because of course, if I wish for peace of earth, that would be impossible.

    :)

  • UnderSiege

    Forget the Ferrari & 'witts' Leonard, I'll speak with my pantheon and see if we can't get you spellcheck, or a private tutor... providing you send me a sample of your stash?

    Only joking Leonard....this is what old age does to many of us.

    "The curse of man, and the cause of nearly all his woes, is his stupendous capacity for believing the incredible."

  • leonardobdas

    You are right mr siege....it is a curse to 'have faith', but the biggest curse of all... to speak 3 languages and still be lazy not to bother writing correctly.... that is the biggest curse of all... :)

  • Guest

    @UnderSiege
    Is it working yet?
    the word is Creativity
    az

  • UnderSiege

    You're doing better than myself with the languages Leonard!

    I knew English was not your native tongue, and my teasing was not
    meant to be offensive.
    Having the rudiments of several languages, I know the difficulties of achieving and maintaining 'fluency'.

    Are you Czech ?

  • Abhinav Asokh

    Yes, What you say is , the whole atman thing that you were talking about is heavily dependent on which school of thought of hinduism you come from. "Hinduism" is as such cannot be considered a religion, it is for the purpose of simplifying a religion that is as diverse as india itself is that the collection of all schools of varying ( and often contradicting each other) that the term hinduism is applied to that. The concept of god in hinduism is very very murky and depending on the school of thought that you come from, it can either be considered theistic or pantheistic or atheistic or deistic. The vedantic ( Vedanta = end of the vedas or the end product of vedas, i,e ; knowledge) school of 'hinduism" preaches that the whole universe arises out of brahman, it is the substratum of all things, on closer introspection, one finds out that atman is actually brahman and that all things in the universe, whether sentient or non sentient, living or dead, star dust, shit on the pavement, stars, dark matter, rotting corpse is all a manifestation of that singular reality = brahman. It is here that the concept of reincarnation comes in, every being goes through a process of birth and death (samsara = cycle of birth and death) that they finally reach a human form. Human birth is considered very lucky because, it is only humans who have the capacity to ponder on the question of "Who am I?". It is through this introspection that one finds out that everything is merely a manifestation of one singular reality and that all things in the universe are one. When one reaches that state of indifference or when one sees that all duality(good or bad. right and wrong) is a product of the mind, one escapes from samasara (Life is seen as full of suffering and bondage). Brahman is not seen as a deity (depending once again on the school that you come from) that you can pray to, or a being that answers your prayers or looks after you. It is merely seen as a substratum of "EVERYTHING". Atman is called soul in order to make the idea of atman accesible to the west. A soul would defy the basic tenet of hinduism ( VEdanta), because, if a soul exists, then there is duality (soul and brahman). The 330 million gods are merely a manifestation of the singular reality just as everything in the universe is. So, a lot of "Theistic hindus" believe that 330 million gods exist ( I personally think that 330 million dieties were symbolic and probably were used to represent the various actions that occur in nature).

  • avd420

    There was a parrot who was quite skilled at math.

  • James Colwell

    shut up and go smoke your pot hippi