The Incredible Human Journey

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Storyline

The Incredible Human JourneyDr Alice Roberts travels the globe to discover the incredible story of how humans left Africa to colonize the world.

How did we get here? Following a trail of clues from the latest scientific research, Dr Alice Roberts re-traces the greatest ever journey taken by our ancestors.

Thousands of years ago one small group of our species, Homo sapiens, crossed out of Africa and into the unknown. Their descendants faced baking deserts, sweat-soaked jungles and frozen wildernesses and risked everything on the vast empty ocean.

Within 60,000 years they colonized the whole world... How did they do it? Why do we, their descendants all look so different? And what did we have that meant we were the only human species to survive?

Using the evidence from genetics, fossils, archaeology and climatology, Dr Alice Roberts uncovers five epic routes our ancestors took across the globe and the obstacles and brutal challenges they encountered along the way.

It reveals how our family tree grew and spread out across the world, producing all the variety we see in the human species today – but despite all that diversity, Alice reveals how astonishingly closely related we all are.

This playlist bellow contains all 5 episodes from this series: Out of Africa, Asia, Europe, Australia, and The Americas.

In addition here is one interesting, interactive map of the Journey of Mankind: The Peopling of the World.

More great documentaries

191 Comments / User Reviews

  1. A Hister

    Yeah but isn't it time G-d released a video?

  2. archorion

    God doesnt exist and we now also know that we dont all come from africa.... they found kinds of homonoids that lived in the caucasian mountains in georgia that are older than homo erectus ........ The Truth is what we must seek .... religion is a easy answer for ingnorant people .... the human journey is much more complicated than we first thought ... we now know that many types of homonoids mixed as well for example the neanderthals and the cro magnons .. We are a mix of many kinds of different homonoids depending on what race you are... just look up the homo florenses wich lived with modern asians till about 5000 years ago .... or look at how even distant species like a tiger and a lion still mate and have babies .. and there are much further apart then us and the neanderthal .... Science is Everything ... proof is the truth and the truth is certainly not written in a book that humans made before they even knew what dna , thunder , human anatomy , magnetism , electronics and i can go on for a while .......Religion is the worst thing humans can prescribe to ...If you believe in a religion , it is exacly the same as saying .. i dont need proof ill believe in anything you tell me aslong as i agree... faith = ignorance .. ignorance= intolerance ...

  3. HaTe_MaChInE

    @A Hister - "Yeah but isn’t it time G-d released a video?"

    Too many zombie movies already... although a bronze age Jew zombie is a nice twist it would just seem too fake. Unless all the apostles were stabbed and returned from the dead to seek revenge on the romans. Then the highlander (aka, Methuselah) got into a sword fight with The Kurgan. But the Kurgan is really the Morning Star and spews forth acid filled demons that eat people. Then Paul would suggests "I say we take off, and nuke the site from orbit. It's the onyl way to be sure." But willow hides the child using his old tricks and fools Bavmorda...

    Naw it just doesnt make any sense...

  4. Brock

    OMG the host is gorgeous!

  5. Achems Razor

    @ A Hister:

    Good idea, would make a great horror movie!!

  6. John Seals

    @ Hate Machine

    Halariouse stuff man, LOL.

    @ Brock

    I was wondering if any one would comment on that. She is absolutedly beautiful- and smart- and cultured- and articulate- I'm in love.

  7. Breadthing

    Too bad your god cant speak or write to defend himself lol.

  8. bob-n-1

    god is the gaol operational dataserver. the livingmachine that knows what position every single blade of your dna is at any given moment :)

  9. Achems Razor

    Forget your gods @ bob-n-1, we are all black!
    That is our predominant DNA. Live with it.

  10. Mathew

    I totally agree with Allan. We should just stop watching these films. Im going to watch re-runs of Home Improvement.

  11. Achems Razor

    Forgot to mention, have a new name for the religee's,
    Homo Stupidis!!

  12. Ben

    Why do religious people always sound so creepy when they post on here?

  13. Eff

    Okay Y'all! Explain to me how Michael Jackson went from Black to white and why God and Elvis live next door to me and won't move back to Nashville, Africa? If you can't figure out EVOLUTION, then just pretend that you were spawned from a large-mouth bass or a catfish with winged flippers...perhaps that would make you feel more at ease and back home in still waters. Sheesh! Where are the "Creationists" when you need them?

  14. Nana Baakan

    Her assumptions are outrageous! But hey, she made a video. Imagine.. traveling this far across land, pulease. They had sea vessels... She is totally negating the abilities of these people... Look at ancient writings, look at ancient rock drawings and hieroglyphs. Geez Louise, this is pure propaganda and not very convincing. I got your tiny group of wanderers, they surely were having millions of offspring. I need to watch something else, but she's got me captivated. See how amazing BS can be??

  15. Allan

    Mocking G-d doesn't make you look clever, only hell-bound

  16. doc-fan

    So... I'm part African? lol sooo cool!

  17. Achems Razor

    @ Allan:

    Am waiting for some kind of clever remark from you! @ Homo-Stupidis.
    Hell-bound? bring it on!

  18. Jack Green

    Lovely doc. Although all the traveling seems a bit unnecessary.

    @Nana Baakan

    Do you have any evidence to back-up your claims?

  19. John Seals

    @ Nana Baakan

    She seemed credible to me, of course I'm all starry eyed right now from basking in her glory. Just kidding seriousely, she seemed intelligent and what she said seems logical to me. If you don't believe a small group can make many, many, many off spring in a quick time- you are wrong. Try doubling any number say start with three. 3-6-12-24-48-96-192-etc-etc As you see it gets really big really fast. Imagine each number as a generation and we see within what 10 generations or so we have broke 1000 people. Now she said a group of 100 so if only half managed to produce one child and in return half of those had a child and so on and so forth. It gets enormouse- do the math. As far as them having boats. I don't know about that, never seen any research on it or anything. Its a good question though. Now all you have to do is research it and get some real data and I'll believe you about it. You could help solve one of the biggest mysteries in our world, how we got out of Africa. Go for it.

  20. john holme

    there's no 'great punisher ' between us and big bang

  21. A Hister

    @ Allan

    What?! You mean G-d can't take a joke!? Surely if you mock Him, He can come back with a witty one-liner?! (Although, come to think of it, there aren't many gags in The Bible!) Rather than sending sinners to hell, He needs to lighten up! I mean hell may be no joke but heaven doesn't exactly sound like a barrel of laughs either!

  22. Leonard Mehlmauer, ND (ret.)

    Yes, this is narrated by a beautiful woman. She is an inspired professional. Her enthusiasm is contagious. Having been an Anthropologist and physician myself (now retired), I can share her passion. It is fascinating how we came out of Africa and settled the Earth. Quite an interesting story, and her travels only hi-lite the beauty of our planet. More will be discovered, of course, about our origins and spread thru the world. I make the trip out of Africa at about 92,000 years ago. Delightful program!

  23. John Seals

    @ Leonard

    Do you have an opinion as to the route they took? It would be interesting to hear another professional opinion besides the one presented in the doc. I would also love to hear your opinion on another doc. on the site called The Mystery of the Human Hobbit. I'm sure you are familiar with the find on Flores, being a anthropologist. Do you feel this is a new species? Sorry to ask under this thread about a different subject but here is where I found you, a anthropologist. I can't resist I have tons of questions actually, I should have studied anthropology insted of theology. Any way if you get a chance and are so inclined view the doc. and tell us what you think. It would be nice to hear from someone that is more apt. to truly understand the subject.

  24. BobbyD

    GREAT series.

  25. Allan

    I will pray for you all, so sad to see people not walking with Jesus

  26. Ben

    There have been occasions in which other animals have used "rafts" to populate new islands, so it should not come to a surprise that humans could do the same as well.

    I'll quote an example of "rafting" from Prof. Richard Dawkin's "The Greatest Show on Earth, The Evidence For Evolution"

    While talking about speciation due to geological boundaries, he mentions an exciting case of a news species using a raft to, unintentionally of coarse, inhabit a new island.

    It reads:

    Before 4 October 1995, there were no members of the species Iguana iguana on the Caribbean island of Anguilla. On that date, a population of these large lizards suddenly appeared on the eastern side of the island. Fortuitously, they were actually seen arriving.

    They were clinging to a mat of driftwood and uprooted trees, some more than 30 feet long. that had drifted form a neighboring island, probably Guadeloupe 160 miles away.

    The book goes on to mention that two hurricanes a couple of weeks earlier could have easily uprooted the trees, with the iguanas in them. Dawkins also mentions that the new population on the island of Anguilla was still going strong in 1998, and Dr. Ellen Censky, who led the original study, says that the new species on iguana, is actually doing better than the original species of iguana that lived on the island before the new species came on the raft.

    Hopefully this dispels any doubt that early humans could use a sort of raft to cross a body of water.

  27. whoopi goldberg

    i think Dr Alice Roberts should start dating Brian Cox. could you imagine how smart and attractive their babies would be

  28. BJ

    Give it a f#cking rest Allan. I can't stand when your type are so arrogant you think WE need YOU to "pray" for us! Why not take responsibility for your own life and give up the pathetic practice of praying.

  29. scarab

    @ A hister wanna hear a joke from god think about this he makes every slut in the world say his name when they get plowed

  30. A Hister

    @Allan
    As soon as I learn Jesus' neat trick of walking on water then I'll start walking with Him!

  31. normal

    Although it is nice to find out things about our past, I believe that all the money spent on this could be better used to feed all the starving people that are here today.
    And as far as all the religious coments go we know for a fact that there are lots of things written in books that are not true even when written by the person who made up the story, The Bible was not written by God, or even Jesus.
    Our history books tell us that christopher columbus first discovered America even though we know this to not be true.
    Don't believe everything that you read, or see in a video.
    But let the evidence speak for itself.

  32. Ben

    @ normal

    While feeding the hungry is very important to me as well, that should be the role of the governments of the world. It can't rely on the pocketbooks of independent scientists.

    Advancing the public understanding of science (as one particular poster on this topic has clearly shown) is crucial to eliminating needless suffering.

  33. Achems Razor

    That is funny @ scarab:

    I betch'a Allan, and hister are the biggest sluts around!
    They would be any-ones bitch*s.

  34. Riley

    blondie bimperton tours the world,
    acting like an over-grown girl-scout.

    i think she got her MD/PhD on-line.

    some of these BBC docs are pretty lame.

  35. John Seals

    @ Riley

    Look, if the subject mater wasn't engaging you should have not bothered watching. You seem more interested in insulting the host- who just so happened to be intelligent, articulate, and very capable of the task at hand. So let's hear your take on it. When, where, and how do you think we left Africa? If you can't give me an intelligent answer maybe you should listen to who was it- blondie bimperton. She seems to have formed an interesting opinion after doing the required research.

  36. Epicurean_Logic

    Thanks for the entertainment guys, i do love a good ol' fahioned bust up. But noone has mentioned the new theory that all non Africans are descended from one tribe of 100 tall cigarillo smoking bushmen!

    Sounds to amazing to be true.

  37. Collette

    The theory is not new for one. Yes it is amazing. But there hasn't been anything new recently in this field, it becomes boring to watch all the same things just diffeent narrators.

  38. atxgirl

    Silly stuff. We did not all come out of Africa. This is simply ONE of the theories of the current crop of anthropologists which some choose to believe.

  39. Riley

    @Seals

    My take is she acted like she thought this stuff up herself.

    there was an aspect of pretension to her presentation which
    struck me as very much against the attitude a scientist
    shold maintain. BBC sometimes goes for these sorts of
    narrators. In short, rather than present the facts, she mugs and gushes.

    I'm VERY interested in anthropology - that's why I expect
    a program on the topic and of such length to be more content-rich than fluffy.

    Yea, she bugged me. My teen-age daughter watched this, and
    thought she was annoying too.

    @atxgirl. we definitely did all origate in africa. genetic diversity amonsgt africans is much greater than ALL non-africans. that's how we know. the actual sequence of events was doubtless complex. there were multiple out-migrations, and may as well have been migrations back into africa. but genetic studies have made this basicf fact
    clear.

    were it not so, racial & genetic differences would be much more pronounced than they are.

  40. shay

    We most remember the first rebellious mind did not want to agree with the Creator in creating man. So why should the rebellious mind's offspring’s act any differently. The first rebellious mind knows where its destiny lays. Does the offspring’s of the rebel understand their future destiny? Ignorance is bliss Thomas Gray’s poem, “Ode on a Distant Prospect of Eton College” (1742) “Where ignorance is bliss, ‘tis folly to be wise.”

    Excellent documentary, the truth shell set you free or leaves you in the dark. “When truth comes falsehood perishes.”

  41. bbc

    For all you that find Dr Roberts annoying, perhaps a good deep americal voice over like those in discovery channel docs, with flashes and cool 3d graphics would appeal more to your sensitivites, however, this is a british doc aimed at the british public who rather prefer this style, dont forget that. In anycase, isnt this a of little consequence, wetahre you like her or not ? Its nos a popularity contest, is it ?

  42. John Seals

    @ Riley

    Thiers nothing wrong with a little entertainment in a documentary, As long as it is still informative and articulate, I think this doc. was both. But every one has thier own opinion- I just took offence at the sexist sounding remark "Blondie Bimperton" - maybe you did not mean it as it sounded. To each thier own as far as doc. styles go.

  43. John Seals

    @ bbc

    I always have trouble understanding those guys on Discovery. You know the ones that talk in this sort of dramatic whisper. Americans seem to want thier info. given them while they are scared to death. Every documentary now days on Discovery and History is about the end of the world and has that same guy whispering all mysteriousely. I'm not sure if we are going to die from meteor impact, global warming, super volcanoe, or gama ray bursts- I think we will eventually envoke a panic that ends everything before any natural cause has a chance. It all started with the powers that be trying to keep everyone scared so they could gain support for thier defence programs- seriousely, the media got in the horror business and found out it was good money so viola- now were a bunch of petrified extremist with guns. I love my country.

  44. bbc

    @bbc

    so because i thought the lady was vapid, i'm a (apparently, in your calibrations typically) stupid american.

    thank much. very impressive on your part. but whatever your infirmities beyond gratuitous insults, i'll lay them at your feet, rather than you country or culture.

    perhaps your parents raised you to sneer at strangers. or maybe you resisted their attempts to teach you manners.

  45. ed

    @ allan

    i walk with science now.

  46. QueenBee

    I found the documentary interesting...I listened to it while working, so I wasn't caught up in the narrator's looks, and maybe because I was listening I found it a little slow in places.

    I was intrigued by the segment on open-fired pottery and looked the process up, so for me the series fulfilled what I expected from it. Some of the information was old, some was new, some was new to me. All of it is available elsewhere, but the presentation was nice.

    And for crying out loud, if you're a creationist, don't bother watching it, please. Spare us your comments. The everlasting bickering you engender on this site feels like being stuck on a road trip with cranky pre-teen brats.

  47. bbc

    WTF ? I never wrote "stupid americans". No need to be so reactionary or bring in manners or sneering at strangers, really nothing to do with my comment if you take a moment to read it properly. Just a comment on styles because I work in Broadcasting (not for the BBC... I wish) and there are clear difference between styles in Europe and America. Your a little defensive, dont you think ?

  48. bbc

    @ John Seals

    I agree partially, yes the voice over style in the US dose´nt appeal to me either, but its not meant to. Believe me the men in charge know who their main audience is and what is the best vehicle to communicate with them. And yes, there is much propaganda, doom and gloom. But theres also many good docs coming from the states starting by my all time favorite: Cosmos. Nasa also make some amazing documentaries.

  49. Ashish

    I'm in love with science.

  50. Farren

    very interesting documentary. the evidence presented helps me understand humanity in an entirely new way.

    i've always heard we all came from Africa, but was never clearly shown when and how that process took place. this documentary filled in so many gaps in that understanding with evidence found all over the world in so many different groups of homo sapiens living today.

  51. mona

    Some of you people are so bloody negative jeez, all the travelling is unnecessary and the money could be spend on something else...???

    When we finally get a great documentary like this, that explains how we look the way we look and where we come from you, out of all the negative things in the world you pick this one to be negative about?

    She had to travel and explain this so some people can understand it in a easy way, some people need to take it in with a spoon...

    She asked all the questions, went to all the places and showed all the evidence to give us the answers, she explored the different opinions, controversies and conspiracy’s.

    The result was a much more simple and beautiful...

    One of the best documentary’s I've watched, I think everyone should see this!

    And you religious people can ...

  52. Saol nua

    I liked the final scene which shows a ladder up against a tree. Echos of pre-humanoid existence.

  53. dale gervais

    Science has become a religion in it's own right.There are way too many so called scientists who have already made up their minds or have been bought outright.A scientist with his mind made up is no different then the ridiculous excuses you have here of religionists.Scientists should be open to any and all information,they should not speculate or read into things.

    All you guys think we all came out of Africa,why?because we are related genetically to people that are now in Africa or because a single broken up skullcap of what could be a deformed ape or chimp?How do you know black people didn't originate in turkey and then moved south to avoid the ice age.Science has found some new evidence that it can't hide,like the ancient nile river which ran east to west not north,south.This nit wit doctor says there was only four ways out of Africa,using todays map maybe.Were not talking about today though are we?

    There are some real scientists out there still,granted difficult to find one that will agree the cambrian is screwing up Darwins theory,but more and more are coming forward.Scientists have put forth the idea that the americas were connected by ice during the ice age and man could have traversed this ice while searching for seal or even whale pilot and gnarwhale for food.

    I wonder if the african tribes would've lived on the ice.When science starts taking cataclysm history seriously the real answers will jump out at them.No one can convince me that ice ages have no effect on humanity.Ice cores have proven we have major deep ice ages every 100,000 yrs,warm weather comes in 20 to 25,000 yr stages we are due for an ice age now.

  54. Achems Razor

    @johnny:

    Three things.
    1-you are a typical d*mbed down religee.
    2-you are only a troll, that is trolling.
    3-and the most scariest of all, you actually believe the garbage you are spewing!

  55. Carl

    A small point, Some look too hard and too far away for God. His work is everywhere and ALL peoples, in all ages, have sought and found a meaning to life. Cultural universals are just that, cultural universals. All times, all places, a form of marriage, careing for orphans, kinship, community, structures, bonding, avoiding in-breeding, art for arts sake, music, dance, a common fire, clothes, family structure, weapons, eating meat, and a belief in an after-life and God/god/gods. Deal with it.

  56. Soul

    @ Naana please look at the timelines for your cave [aintings and for the egyptian hieroglyphs u refer to.... i believe she's talking about well before then.......here's one for religous people maybe your right and when adma and eve were banished from heaven then the big bang happened and earth was created from which evolution began would fit quite well dont you think he he he he he

  57. Soul

    We're all black lets live with it and be more tolerant of each other then......

  58. Robin

    I found the documentary quite entertaining and informative. For all of you nay-sayers you should really listen to what she is saying. She never once says this "is what happened" but more often says perhaps or maybe, thus presenting a possible theory. Fact or not, I found her theories interesting and great for open discussion. Intelligent discussion, either pro or con, does not involve personal bashing of anyone. What ever happened to healthy debate?

  59. nitrohonkey

    If God created everything...then God is responsible for everything. Therefore God must be accountable.

  60. BIRDCAGE

    Great documentary. I got tired reading the sophomoric comments but the basis of this doc is quite plausible. DNA proves we all were descended from a small group of people. It could have been as stated here or possibly from the eruption of the Tambora super volcano wiping out most of the species. What a pathetic race that makes war upon itself for tens of thousands of years. Reading some of these comments shows how little we have progressed.

  61. anthony

    @dale gervais...that is a stupid remark how can you be a scientist if you dont speculate or read into things ...think before you type dumb ****

  62. anthony

    @dale gervais ..you really are not very educated are you ? and i thought the Jesus freaks said stupid c@#$.

  63. Jo McKay

    Very good documentary...as for most of the comments, I am sorry I started reading some of them (maybe I need to prepare a cheat sheet of black listed names that I tape beside my computer - do not read comments from the following people... :)
    @Birdcage - thanks, I agree. @ archorion - did you watch the film - all of it? I don't think so. The study of human history and human (DNA 'evidence' shows we do NOT carry the genetics of 'other' hominids - that includes homo erectus and neanderthals - tho' we sometimes lived in the same places - we 'descend' from homo sapiens)migrations up to date are based on the best of evidence we have uncovered so far. That's how science works: ie this is what we know so far, this is what we think it all means. That said dna evidence is pretty powerful, and tho' some can not seem to deal with the fact we are all related and descend from Africa doesn't make it less true. It's also tru that new evidence keeps coming in, yet the basics are continually re-proven (is that a word?) ALL the races who survived the last 60,000 years came from Africa, deal with it! This is a well rounded, educational and entertaining documentary, congrats to the BBC; should be shown everywhere to everyone (now if only we could find some way to teach 'some' how to 'think, reason, analyze,' etc) Aww well, if I had a penny for every time... :) ciao

  64. RalucaV

    COMMON HUMANITY. SHARED PAST. SHARED FUTURE.

    Let this be the words that the next generation grows up with - rather than "we are such and such people and we are better than the rest" - because of the shape of our noses, name of our God, color of our skin or whatever other superficial reason we find to hate the ones that are not like us. These differences have been the basis of too many wars and genocides. Now that we know the truth we should stop killing eachother and act like the family that we truly are. We are one!

    Thank you Dr. Alice Roberts and thank you to all the scientists that helped her on this documentary!

    This should be mandatory to watch for all children. Now. Before the fear and hatred of their parents, teachers and priests gets taught to them. Maybe then we have a chance to save ourselves and our planet before it's too late...

  65. Russell Rabe

    great documetary

  66. Gary V

    A superb doc & it's great that all the racists can finally realise that we can all trace our ancestors back to Africa. We are all one race, the Human race & there ain't a damn thing that you can do about it, It's in your DNA.

  67. Abro Azhar

    hey! after leaving the Africa, the human branch when first time divided in three, is my land SINDH, a land of ancient civilization, Indus Civilization.

  68. clay dawson

    Excellent series, and I will say that it's nice to watch a documentary narrated by a fairly attractive female rather than some british man.

  69. brooke gibbard

    I fully regret starting to read the comments after I watched this documentary.. anyone thinking of doing so, I advise you to not waste your time. While not taking too seriously the style or personality of the narrator, I believe this was a very well done documentary. Also, that the evidence speaks for itself. What you take out of it, that's yours. I'll leave it at that.

    -B G

  70. Robin Forward

    Why do deeply religious ppl watch these documentaries? If you don’t believe in science that’s your prerogative but keep it to yourself.

    Oh and you missed some extremely important points with regards to your "Gods" cultural universals e.g. mass religious genocide hmmmmmm ummmm ....... let me see...... mass brain washing to gaining control of the masses, religious wars oh and did you say avoiding in-breeding because that’s completely the opposite of what religion has done.

    Also I don’t understand what "god" has to do with weapons or eating meat as well as the arts, sure there has been religiously inspired art but that is only a small %.

    So in conclusion I won’t "deal with it" and you are a narrow minded f@#k.

  71. pan thor

    I only watched the first part of this blasphemous nonsense before turning it off in disgust. Why do so many 'scientists' feel justified in trashing the beliefs of billions of people by presenting their flimsy evidence as some sort of PROOF that God's children are descended from monkeys and blacks???

    Don't forget your sunscreen. I hear it's hot in HELL.

  72. Achems_Razor

    @pan thor:

    Be careful with your racism there buddy, you are putting monkeys and blacks into the same category, for your info both humans and monkeys have a common ancestor that we all derived from, and yes, our common ancestor came out of Africa, we have predominant "black" gene. Deep down we are all "black", and since your god made us in his image means that he, she, or it, is "black" also. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

  73. pan thor

    @Achems_Razor

    Isn't the THEORY proposed in this documentary that monkeys turned into black Africans and they turned into whites, Indians and so on when they went to these countries?

    It seems like YOU are being racist.

    Also FYI Adam and Eve were Middle Eastern, not black.

  74. Achems_Razor

    @pan thor:

    It is apparent that you do not have a clue as to what you are talking about, Adam and Eve were middle eastern? then you are a creationist and believe that the earth is 6000, years old?

    There was no Adam and Eve, no gods, no big JC, all you have is your bibles, and whatever you pick up from your preachers, and from your creationist websites.

    Come back when you have grown up!

  75. pan thor

    @ Vlatko

    You are another person who cannot form a logical argument.

    Let's call flat earth THEORY A
    and Creationism THEORY B
    and evolution THEORY C

    You are saying that because theory A has been disproved, theory B will also be disproved. What about theory C?

    Just rehash something about a 'Spaghetti Monster'. At least then I can simply ignore your infantile comments.

    Thanks!

  76. Vlatko

    @pan thor,

    It amazes me to what extent can human mind go by justifying its own beliefs.

    Your prof for Adam and Eve being Middle Eastern is that apples don't grow in sub-Saharan Africa. Is this a joke?

    There are three options:

    1. You're a kid fed with religious spoon,
    2. You're flat-earther/creationist, or
    3. All above.

    I mean all these are labels, and it is rude to label people, but in this case I couldn't help it.

  77. pan thor

    I label you thus: Someone who cannot form a reasonable argument to back up their beliefs.

    Why can't you people engage in a debate with people who disagree with you without resorting to insults?

  78. Vlatko

    @pan thor,

    That is another example of how you don't understand what was being said. Just like you didn't understand the documentary above.

    I'm not saying anything, no theories A, B, C... nothing. I just gave an example of how one solid belief was trashed, nothing more.

    Now, get some books, go into library, take some basic courses if needed, and come back after year or two. Sounds good?

  79. pan thor

    So your theory of evolution might not be similarly trashed in the future because......?

    Oh right... because you believe in it. *slow handclap*

  80. Vlatko

    @pan thor,

    Ok no insults. What do you want? Evidence for evolution? Counter evidence for the existence of your God?

    For the first one you'll need some education to understand the basics. You can start with watching the doc.

    For the second one the onus is on you. Prove that your God exists. And don't BS us with "it exists for me"... and please don't mix apples with oranges.

  81. Vlatko

    @pan thor,

    Don't do that dude. Stay on the subject... I had to edit your comment.

  82. pan thor

    Again...you seem to think that both sides of the debate must adhere to a different set of rules.

    Why precisely can I not say that God exists for me? Does the theory of evolution not exist for you? Can you prove that God doesn't exist?

    And don't bother with that 'proving a negative' nonsense. Your kind have been hiding behind that for too long.

  83. Vlatko

    @pan thor,

    Why precisely can I not say that God exists for me?

    You can, but if it exists only for you, why bother arguing and convincing others that exists. If it's for you, keep it that way.

    On the other hand evolution is a scientific matter, constantly under scrutiny, deployed by thousands of scientists. With the first scientific glimpse of debunk, it will be questioned word wide.

    And don't bother with that 'proving a negative' nonsense.

    Don't worry, I won't. When one stands up and declares something it has to explain it a little bit more, and prove it if necessary, don't you think?

    So here is one example (don't get confused, it's juts an example):

    I say there is karma and reincarnation. You don't believe in that? Prove me I'm wrong.

  84. pan thor

    If you can moderate you sneering tone for one moment (after all, you aren't exactly an original thinker now, are you?) let me ask you to explain something to me about the Cambrian Explosion.

    Oh wait....you need to explain ALL of it. ;)

  85. pan thor

    @ Vlatko

    "I say there is karma and reincarnation. You don't believe in that? Prove me I'm wrong."

    I take it you accept there is 'good' science and 'bad' science? By bad I mean the lunatics who claim that aliens built the pyramids (see left ===> ) and alchemy etc.

    Similarly there is 'bad' religion. Hinduism, while admirable in its tenets of non-violence, generosity and compassion is not to be taken literally. The idea of a four-armed elephant man / god is simply absurd.

    Jesus was a REAL man living in a REAL place.

    Let's try not to purposefully muddy the waters to score cheap points, shall we?

  86. pan thor

    Are you Googling 'Cambrian Explosion'? Let me know and I'll start dinner. ;)

  87. Vlatko

    @pan thor,

    When you prove me that there is no karma and reincarnation (and that is not exclusively Hindu concept), I will prove you that your God doesn't exist. Is that OK? Don't muddy the waters.

  88. Vlatko

    @pan thor,

    I couldn't say anything more on Cambrian Explosion than what is already said in any good book or school on the subject.

  89. pan thor

    @ Vlatko

    Are you (a Dawkins-clone Darwinist) seriously resorting to asking me to prove a negative.

    Priceless. :)

  90. pan thor

    Can you reconcile it with the theory of evolution?

    That was kind of my point :/

  91. Achems_Razor

    @pan thor:

    "Jesus was a REAL man living in a REAL place:?? The place may be real, but now the onus is on you to prove that your Jesus was a "REAL" man, I am waiting, as are all of us for your proof, and do not use the bibles as reference, (circular logic)

    Well??

  92. Vlatko

    @pan thor,

    Wait... you say: Can you prove that God doesn't exist? (comments below) Isn't that asking to prove negative?

    I've just shown you an example (karma and reincarnation) that this can be easily used by anyone with any beliefs, and you won't be able to disapprove them in any way.

    Now I hope you understand that the onus is on you. Please prove your God's existence.

  93. pan thor

    And I told you that Hinduism isn't a serious religion.

    As an aside I would like to add that it is my belief that all the trippy Indian 'Gods' were the result of the practice of drinking 'soma' in that region of the world (a brew of poppy seeds, ephedra and cannabis).

    Now back to the point, eh? The Cambrian Explosion. Kindly reconcile it with evolution.

  94. pan thor

    @ Achems_Razor

    You are so infantile i can hardly bring myself to respond to you.

    "Don't use the bible as a reference" ???

    I am not allowed to use books to back up my points now? Halfwit. How about you forget everything you read in 'The God Delusion' then? You utter, utter circus clown.

  95. Achems_Razor

    @pan thor:

    By your edited reply to Vlatko (I read it) you have lost all credibility, and had relinquished your argument, again proof that most religee's as a last resort reply with ad hominem attacks.

    Edit: By your last reply to me, it seems that you have really got your panties in a knot!

  96. pan thor

    @ Bobo

    How are my panties in a knot? I am effortlessly batting away your slow balls while posing you both questions that you either ignore or try to deflect.

    You really add nothing to this debate. Why don't you just pootle off in your tiny car and and squirt someone in the eye with your novelty flower?

  97. Achems_Razor

    @pan and thor, great gods, Eh?

    We do not know what you look like, scared to show your face?

  98. pan thor

    What are you talking about now?

    I genuinely have no idea. :/

  99. Achems_Razor

    @pan thor:

    Trying not to go off topic, but "Pan" your namesake, a lecherous god who is the son of Zeus.

    "Thor" another of your namesake, is the Norse god of thunder, the son of Odin.

    Am going to tell your religious superiors on you, "Blasphemy, heretic, and all that stuff, for shame!

  100. pan thor

    I know what my username means. :/

    Stop cluttering this discussion please.

  101. Vlatko

    @pan thor,

    I was a little bit harsh to you in the beginning, but now you can stop with the name calling.

    I've responded to you about the Cambrian Explosion below (track the conversation). Anyhow whatever you know about it, it doesn't disprove the evolution.

    What you have to do is read, and read, and read about the following:

    - Universal biochemical organization and molecular variance patterns,
    - DNA sequencing,
    - Endogenous retroviruses (Feline, Human),
    - Proteins,
    - Pseudogenes,
    - Recent African origin of modern humans,
    - Atavisms,
    - Evolutionary developmental biology and embryonic development,
    - Homologous structures and divergent (adaptive) evolution,
    - Nested hierarchies and classification,
    - Vestigial structures,
    - Fossil record,
    - Continental distribution,
    - Island biogeography,
    - Ring Species,
    - Specific examples of natural selection in the lab and in the field (Antibiotic and pesticide resistance, E. coli long-term evolution experiment, Lactose intolerance in humans, Nylon-eating bacteria etc.),
    - Observed speciation (Blackcap, Drosophila melanogaster etc.),
    - Interspecies fertility or hybridization (Polar bear, Raphanobrassica etc.),
    - Artificial selection,
    - Computation and mathematical iteration.

    I really do hope you're not a troll who tries to provoke others into emotional response, just for fun. Why? Because you're using @pan thor as a nickname.

    Pan - in Greek religion and mythology, is the god of the wild, shepherds and flocks, nature, of mountain wilds, hunting and rustic music, as well as the companion of the nymphs.

    Thor - is a hammer-wielding god associated with thunder, lightning, storms, oak trees, strength, the protection of mankind, and also hallowing, healing, and fertility.

    Shouldn't your nick be something like @jesus_the_light, @jesus_saviour, @god_truth, etc.

    Now as I've said: Prove that your God is true.

  102. Epicurus

    where in the bible does it say anything about an apple?

    maybe you should check your religion and history before coming off like a pompous jerk.

    also apples are indigenous to Kazakhstan.

  103. pan thor

    @ Epicurus

    "where in the bible does it say anything about an apple?"

    Song of Solomon

    As an apple tree among the trees of the forest, so is my beloved among the young men. With great delight I sat in his shadow, and his fruit was sweet to my taste.

    Who is that coming up from the wilderness, leaning on her beloved? Under the apple tree I awakened you. There your mother was in labor with you; there she who bore you was in labor.

    I say I will climb the palm tree and lay hold of its fruit. Oh may your breasts be like clusters of the vine, and the scent of your breath like apples,

    Sustain me with raisins; refresh me with apples, for I am sick with love.

    Joel 1:12

    The vine dries up; the fig tree languishes. Pomegranate, palm, and apple, all the trees of the field are dried up, and gladness dries up from the children of man.

    Proverbs 25:11

    A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in a setting of silver.

  104. Epicurus

    flat earth and creationism are not theories.

    now flat earth could be a hypothesis but that has been proven wrong.

    creationism on the other hand is unfalsifiable and uses magic and supernatural claims to get around any problems. it is not a hypothesis or a theory.

    evolution on the other hand is the unifying theory in the life sciences. without it, medicine, agriculture, and everything we know about biology would go out the window.

    it seems that you want to just be rude and insult people rather than engage them in thoughtful discussion.

  105. Epicurus

    what would you like to know about the cambrian explosion? i could absolutely help you with anything you need to know.

    but if you start talking to me the way you are doing to Vlatko (which is a common defense mechanism of someone who is in the wrong) i will just ignore you.

  106. pan thor

    @ Vlatko

    "I've responded to you about the Cambrian Explosion below (track the conversation)"

    Hmmmm.... this?

    "I couldn't say anything more on Cambrian Explosion than what is already said in any good book or school on the subject."

    Trust me...I have read all about the Cambrian Explosion. The reason I asked YOU to reconcile it with evolution is because I don't think you have read much about it at all.

    This is a common problem with arguing with the Dawkins clones. If Richard hasn't addressed the issue they literally have nothing to say on the topic :/

  107. Epicurus

    im sorry was the song of solomon referring to the garden of eden that you were talking about?

    and are you now saying that this all happened a long time after the earth formed and other people already moved apples towards the middle east or are you saying this took place in Kazakhstan where apples are originally from?

  108. pan thor

    @ Epicurus

    My apologies. I must have somehow got the wrong end of the stick when you wrote "where in the bible does it say anything about an apple?"

  109. Vlatko

    @pan thor,

    1. Again, stop with the insults. I'm not Dawkins clone. Nobody here is.

    2. Read my huge comment below.

    3. What do you exactly want about the Cambrian Explosion? First you say reconcile it with evolution, then reconcile it with religion. What do you exactly want? Do you want an opinion if it supports the evolution or goes against it? What?

    4. Prove that your God exists and made all this.

  110. pan thor

    I haven't asked you to reconcile the Cambrian explosion with religion anywhere in this discussion.

  111. Epicurus

    "Trust me...I have read all about the Cambrian Explosion. The reason I asked YOU to reconcile it with religion is because I don't think you have read much about it at all."

    must have been a typo

    but what seems to be your problem? there is NO discrepency between evolution and the cambrian explosion. do you really think you have enough education to debate this subject or are you just going to parrot creationist websites?

  112. pan thor

    Oh righto.

    Silly me. I thought the 'theory' of evolution was about gradual incremental changes to species. I didn't realise you evolutionary THEORISTS had co-opted massive and sudden and wholly inexplicable change as well.

    My bad. ;)

  113. pan thor

    Let's play.....WHO SAID THIS ABOUT THE CAMBRIAN EXPLOSION? :)

    "... [W]e find many of them already in an advanced state of evolution, the very first time they appear. It is as though they were just planted there, without any evolutionary history."

  114. Vlatko

    @pan thor,

    Jerry Coyne notes: "Many animals and plants do not show up as fossils until well after the Cambrian explosion: bony fishes and land plants first appeared around 440 million years ago, reptiles around 350 million years ago, mammals around 250 million years ago, flowering plants around 210 million years ago, and human ancestors around 5 million years ago. The staggered appearance of groups that become very different over the next 500 million years gives no support to the notion of instantaneously created species that thereafter remain largely unchanged. If this record does reflect the exertions of an intelligent designer, he was apparently dissatisfied with nearly all of his creations, repeatedly destroying them and creating a new set of species that just happened to resemble descendants of those that he had destroyed."

  115. pan thor

    @ Apple

    Of all the fantastic elements of the story of Adam and Eve (Adam being made out of mud, Eve being created out of one of his ribs, talking snakes etc) why are you fixating on whether or not it was an apple or a plum Eve ate?

    I am quite prepared to concede that the story of the Garden of Eden is allegorical. :/

  116. Vlatko

    @pan thor,

    We're gonna play hide and seek now? Answer the questions below. Don't avoid the debate, don't muddy the water.

  117. pan thor

    @ Epicurus

    "now one thing the creationsit will ask is "why were there so little animals before the cambrian and then so many after"

    Not this one, buddy. I would say 'few'. ;)

  118. Vlatko

    @pan thor,

    The fixation is on apples because you've basically said: Adam and Eve were not black since there were no apples in sub-Saharan Africa. hahaha... Jesus Christ.

    And now you're quite prepared to concede that the story of the Garden of Eden is allegorical. So basically you've been trolling all the time.

  119. Epicurus

    because you brought it up as a defense for why the first people couldnt be from africa.

    now im starting to think you are trolling. but its hard to tell a christian from a troll...funny how that works eh?

    but yes it is amazing that a rib woman was tricked by a talking snake to eat a magical fruit and that is what doomed us all....very silly indeed.

  120. pan thor

    @ Epicurus & Vlatko

    *raises hands in mock surrender*

    Let this be a lesson to you in the potential wiliness of the Creationist nutjob. Stay on your toes, men, and NEVER allow them to evade a point.

    Stay chilly. ;)

  121. Achems_Razor

    I believe that @pan thor was trolling, should of known with his pan thor handle.

    Wonder what website he got kicked off? or maybe it was TDF website under a different handle HMM?

    Edit: Probably was a guy named "Chris" some here know who I mean.

  122. Epicurus

    winner!

  123. pan thor

    @ Epicurus

    Unfortunately not. You came across badly here, I'm afraid.

    Quoting a PBS primer (for a 25 second minivid for kids about the Cambrian Explosion) and trying to pass it off as a peer-reviewed piece from Berkeley was a notable low point.

    I would have mentioned it at the time but i wanted to keep you on track with the frankly hilarious Applegate.

  124. Epicurus

    actually the two links were not direct sources for what i put there. they were supposed to be used by you to continue the study.

    i didnt think it was worth noting where that came from since it was accurate.

    also the Berkley article is NOT a peer reviewed paper. dont pretend to understand science.

    so lets get this straight....what you just posted was your reason for not addressing the fact that what you are saying about the cambrian explosion is false?

    i thought the apple was interesting too. the way you tried to use it against achems for your argument that adam and eve werent in africa...ya interesting. then when i ask you where it is in the bible (obviously meaning in genesis since that was where the discussion was focused) you decide to pull of the song of solomon...its like trying to deal with a 5 year old with ADHD.

    you lost get over it.

  125. Epicurus

    there, fixed it JUUUUUST for you!

  126. Guest

    You're not clever. You're not impressive in any way. You're just enraged that the little boat you were happily sailing along in, with all its cargo of apples, animals and bad ideas, has been capsized and sunk in a flood of science, and there you are, left to sink or swim as best you can, or to keep treading water and hope that when the flood recedes, your feet will be resting on top of Mt. Ararat.

    Give it up! The water isn't going anywhere.

    I've followed this thread from the start and seen the juvenile little machinations you've employed, and the way you've tried to run and hide when called out. Rather than adding anything of substance, or answering any arguments that have been put to you, you evidently assume you're slicked over with some kind of holy grease, so that no one can get a handle on you, but you're wrong. All anyone needs to know about you is your bumper-sticker philosophy: God said it. You believe it. And that settles it.

    Have fun at the bottom of the ocean.

  127. pan thor

    I am literally speechless. :)

  128. Achems_Razor

    @pan thor:

    Whats a matter? are you a bad loser?

  129. Guest

    'HIS fruit was sweet to my taste'
    My mind is filled with pictures and none of them involve fruit of any kind ;)
    Wonder how she licked them apples :/

  130. Achems_Razor

    54 4 40,

    Your dirty I like you, damn, quit getting me off topic!

  131. pan thor

    A bad loser? Anyone with half a brain could see I was on the wind up from the outset you simpleton. You should feel ashamed for allowing yourself to be drawn in.

    Let's have a look at the scores before we put this to bed.

    Pan Thor 10/10
    Absolutely flawless display of Internet ownage. Controlled the others from post one and made them dance like glassy-eyed marionettes.

    Bonus points:

    Bracketing monkeys with black people +3
    Calling Admin a paedo three times + 4(3)

    Total 25/10

    Achems_Razor 2/10
    Pretty much a case study in what's wrong with 99% of atheists. Just parroting a few cliches does NOT give you the intellectual high ground. Creationist nutjobs claim the moral high ground in precisely the same way.

    Bonus points:

    Calling me a bad loser after I have clearly won outright -5

    Total -3/10

    Vlatko 5/10
    A spirited and engaging start tailed off toward the end (may not necessarily be a bad thing (see below).

    Bonus points:

    Massive fact-filled post with both questions AND answers +2
    Demanding answers to the above +1
    Withdrawing when my wind-up became impossible to deny +1

    Total 9/10

    Epicurus 3/10
    Oh....where do I start? The very epitome of what is wrong with the post-Dawkins atheist. I lost count of how many times he said he was 'clever' and 'scientific' while frantically cutting and pasting. Was he posting in a dressing gown? Did he have a semi-boner throughout? Alas I think the answer is 'yes' to both counts.

    Bonus points:

    Not knowing the difference between 'few' and 'little' (if English is, as I believe, your second language please discount this rating)-2
    Trying to pass off PBS primers (lol) as his own original thoughts -3
    Being a humourless bellend from start to finish -4
    Claiming victory at the end -4

    Total -10/10

  132. Vlatko

    @pan thor,

    Good analysis. But you're wrong.

    1. I tailed off at the end because it became very obvious that you're just trolling.

    2. @Achems writes short comments because he must have been writing walls of text to creationists countless of times in the past 3-4 years. And when a new guy comes along he's just tired to go over and over again, with the same thing.

    3. It is the same with @Epicurus, but instead of writing one or two lines he sometimes quotes sources.

    4. I feel the same. When I see a creationist commenting, most of the time I'm ignoring it. But when I choose to respond I'm very, very tempted to do what @Achems and @Epicurus do (all those facts in my big comment below are actually taken from wiki), because I'm pretty aware where the debate will go and how it will end.

    5. It is not a victory when one calls the other paedo or is displaying racism without being banned. I think it is very immature to think otherwise.

    Now I would like to ask you: How old are you? Honestly. If you're above 18 you should seek help immediately. If not there is hope.

  133. pan thor

    Not obvious to some :titter:

  134. Achems_Razor

    @pan thor:

    :titter:?? what?? only little girls go ":titter:" probably another 13 year old!

  135. pan thor

    You are like a little yapping dog :)

  136. Achems_Razor

    I am like a big doberman little girly.

  137. Guest

    Your getting yourself off Mr Razor.

  138. Epicurus

    lol and i felt bad for making you look so stupid.

    now i see you do it to yourself. thank you for that. i can sleep better.

    about saying im clever and scientific, a quick search through the page of posts will show i didnt say that once.

    also why wouldnt i copy/paste a scientific point of view? what is the difference if i say it or if i allow a more educated person to say it? i would think the latter would be the better.

    " Was he posting in a dressing gown? Did he have a semi-boner throughout?"

    projection....why else does the troll do what it does?

    grow up man.

  139. His Forever

    If I didn't truly believe God wins in the end, my fellow Christians would bring me to utter dispair, starting with you! It's incredibly rude to be so impolite to a website's host like this. If you really want to get your points across (you seem intelligent enough), then do so with wisdom and not just intellect.

  140. His Forever

    You forgot to add the word "topic" to your sentence, there, little lady! Grammar check! ;-)

  141. Guest

    Gosh, so I did. Someone ought to give me a sound spanking ! ;)

  142. Achems_Razor

    Charles, pan thor was just a little kiddie, a child, seems like we are having an influx of 13 year olds here lately

  143. Achems_Razor

    Charles, that's okay, i knew what 50 4 40 meant, I think.

  144. Guest

    Not quite sure why the three main guys of this site would pay attention to "Pan Thor"...without attention he would have vanished into thin air.
    I suppose we all have to have our fun....count on 50 4 40 to bring reality back in the discussion.
    I got a huge cold...to top the wave i am on. I am trying hard to not sneeze on my screen so no one catch this!
    az

  145. Achems_Razor

    Az, that's okay, pretty soon we will be called the "troll busters" we are getting quite good don't you think, maybe we can even hire out our services, Eh?

    Before you disappear again, just want to wish you a merry Xmas.

    Some day when you see a hot car tooling around in Nelson, it will be me lol. Way off topic I know but damn it is Xmas.

  146. Guest

    "troll buster experts" TBE
    Happy new year...as for Xmas...means very little to me and i am sure to you too...but as others we follow the shopping parade...i try to do mine in 2nd hand stores....a kind of recycling.
    Hot car...is that to make you look hotter or are you hot in reality? Hard to be ugly with green eyes...my favorites! Mine are brown as dirt.
    Off topic, but everything is part of a human incredible journey after all!
    az

  147. Guest

    Hey Beauty, grab a hot toddy and a pot of tiger balm and you'll be right in no time :) I've always loved christmas,love the glitter. We also have 'burning of the clocks' on the 21st - shortest day. everyone (in my town) makes paper lanterns and parades through town to the beach to throw them into a fire. Very beautiful. Hope you feel better soon x :)

  148. His Forever

    Razor: Do you really think Pan Thor is a kid? Dang! Kids are getting smarter and RUDER every day, aren't they? If my 5-year-old wasn't already Internet savvy, I'd forbid him from any computer use until age 39!

  149. Epicurus

    lol its funny because its true

  150. Guest

    You had written Vernon before....two days ago when i walked back home after reading your message, i realized that the place i am staying at for the month of Dec (until i move in the 1st jan)...is on Vernon street..
    Are you spying on me? I like that...lol
    Hey Merry XMas to you too...by the way...what i like about Christmas is that despite the shopping frenzy ...love is in the air....and this year i get to spend it with my grand son...his first ever XMas.
    az

  151. Guest

    Hey! You are right...i was grouchy a couple days ago but now all is better, i think i will survive this one just in time for XMas.
    I have been drinking "hot gin" like they do in the Gaspe area of Quebec.
    Boil ginger in water, crush a large clove of organic garlic, lemon, honey and a good portion of gin, top with the ginger hot water and drink as hot as possible....and then sit in a super hot bath with the light off...and then to bed. Change sheet in the morning.(lol)
    Must have been how they got people out of the dead zone in those days...no neocitron...i call mine the Ginginger
    az

  152. Guest

    So glad your feeling better, sounds like a good cure you have there. probably knock my socks off! Heat and garlic a bath and bed, what better way to spend your day in the cold winter weather :)

  153. Achems_Razor

    Az, I know I had written Vernon before, I meant Nelson. How could I possibly spy on you when I live about 12 hours away right now? I'm sort of elusive ain't I?

  154. Guest

    Like a slippery snake. Let's see 12 hrs...is that driving, flying, walking, or dreaming...?
    You know what... we should have coffee...bet you anything we'd be great friends. I am a loner just like you....i assume
    az

  155. Metronil

    pan thor you have managed to make yourself look even more a drooling half-wit that normal...what is the secret of your success!?

  156. Guest

    welcome to TDF...we love funny people here!
    az

  157. veganvancouver

    Amazing proven fact backed by evidence of Science! Brilliant documentary. I highly recommend for all the Christians and Muslim to watch this documentary!

  158. veganvancouver

    Brilliant documentary with amazing EVIDENCE of the original of humans. Please spread this documentary film to all the Christians and Muslims in the world in order to stop the virus of Christian and Muslim faiths that destroying our humanity.

  159. ievolved

    I agree. But nothing you could show them will convince them 'nothing'!

  160. binzee

    dont u think it's about time u did get involed

  161. Shahnawaz Chachar

    Come here in Sindh - Moen Jo Daro and c how they were living - you will be amazed

  162. Akshay Venkatesh

    Defending god does not make you look pious, just foolish enough to keep with superstitions.

  163. homasap

    GREAT Documentary Weldon BBC, Can someone tel me what is the name main tune at the start of episodes ? Thanks

  164. john kay

    worth 5 hours of my time and I didnt even fall asleep as is usually the case with docs - geez my life sucks :)
    each episode was interesting and insightful - irregardless of your beliefs, cultures, values or interests...
    thx 2 alice,vlado and our ancestors

  165. Superscary

    are humans that amazing ? post your coomet on facebook page super scary

  166. Heather

    Why can't we leave religion out of this? The two theories CAN work together and it doesn't have to be so cut-an-dried as creationism or evolution. Why are we as humans so arrogant as to think we even know which one it is or if it's both? Just enjoy an amazing documentary for what it is and stop arguing about this.

  167. Achems_Razor

    @Heather:

    Are you making a claim that religion is a theory and can coexist with the theory of evolution? If so, show us how you arrived at that prognosis.

  168. Heather

    First off I want to clarify that this isn't necessarily my personal view. If one were going to hypothesize that the two theories could co-exist think of it this way: God could have created the conditions for evolution with those very first molecules of life.
    Again, please don't attack me. I'm simply brainstorming here. I just think people on both sides of the argument tend to be really intolerant of each other and i wish there was less attacking and more open-mindedness and intelligent discourse.

  169. Achems_Razor

    Not attacking, you are still saying that religion is a theory. hypothesizing or no. So the onus is on you to show proof why you think religion is a theory as apposed to a belief only, and it should be in the same ballpark as theory of evolution.

  170. Heather

    hehe dude I have nothing to prove to you. Something is a belief if people choose it to be. There are limits to what we as humans can prove and what we choose to "believe". As an evolutionist you choose to believe there's nothing beyond this life but have you died and come back to support that belief? Similarly has the creationist done the same thing? A Christian would say that Jesus did just that but the Bible is a document that can be interpreted in so many ways that not one of them has actually experienced that themselves so they really don't know. As for your tone well, congratulations you come off as total douche and because of that you discourage intelligent people from commenting in the forum. So good luck with that.

  171. Achems_Razor

    @Heather:

    My tone? what tone? was always polite to you. You have made a claim that religion is a theory, whomever makes a claim means that the "burden of proof" lays to you to substantiate your claims. I have made no claims, and did not say I was a evolutionist.

    The bible is a book of many books, not a document as you say. Another claim that you have to prove.

    And you are resorting now to ad hominem attacks calling me a douche. Do not know if you are religious or not, but you are resorting to ad hominem as most religee's do when backed into a corner. do you call that intelligent?

    I am a "moderator" for TDF and do not discourage people from commenting on TDF. good luck to you also.

  172. Moon Dog

    I'd prefer to watch a documentary that flows from facts and evidence then some conrived "adventure story" about Super Woman discovering the secrets of life.

  173. james reihl

    just simply enjoy the miracles of earth to be so diverse and always changing to let life evolve. If the forest never grew the people wouldn't have traveled and if the water hadn't moved there wouldn't have been a path for the people to follow!! Amazing things happen to this earth every day so believe in that! Why are religious groups not the first people to stand up to environmental issues that are stopping natural miracles from happening and killing life, we are destroying the things we need to live, water, air, food, no god is going to bring them back once they are gone!

  174. wakan

    Alice Roberts is good looking, thrives in the outdoors and has a bit of spunk that comes across well on the screen. I watched the entire series and it was well done.

  175. Chase Copeland

    You should read the book "Stranger in a Strange Land". It's one of the best books I've ever read. Long-story short it's about a guy who was raised from infancy by Martians and had never met a single human. Humans come to Mars and take him back to Earth and he learns about humans and their odd ways and the humans learn from him. In the end he creates a sort of religion which he says is the truth. Not necessarily a religion but the world looks upon it as a cult and you can figure out what happens from there.

    The message of the book was basically, from what I got, that religion and science want the same thing. To understand the universe. And one day religion and science will finally come to agree on the same thing. Because everyone's ultimate goal if they think about it is to understand.

    Religion I will say has a bad rep for going about it in a rather close-minded stupid way for the most part. But not all religious people take the bible or the quran for what it says literally. There are christians that believe in evolution and stuff. And I believe religion was a part of evolution but that for the most part has become obsolete. Although I think it helps dumb people be good people. There are just dumb people in the world. And religion does help them be better people. It takes more brain power to comprehend evolution than it does to believe fairy tales.

    There are still many mysterious things that happen that point to a possible after life. Science can't explain consciousness. Are you just the cells and materials and chemicals that make up your body? Or are you your brain? Are you just a result of nature and nurture? Are you your memories? Would you be similar at all if you were raised by different people in a different place? Are you even a part of your body? Are you just part of one big consciousness that controls all life on Earth or maybe even the entire universe?

    All in all life itself is a planet virus. All the other planets we know of are virus free because they aren't good hosts for a virus. The key for any good virus is to figure out how to spread to other hosts. Space travel is the way we might be able to prolong the planet plague. The homo sapien strain is the best chance of spreading. If we fail then maybe if the planet isn't too screwed some other strain will evolve into something better. Maybe it'll be another mammal type strain or maybe an insect one. I doubt reptiles will ever evolve to dominate again. Ok I need to stop this rant. Have I gone off on a tangent?

  176. jaberwokky

    That was fairly enjoyable. Would have been more enjoyable without the Hans Zimmer rip-off music blaring in places to ad dramatic effect but that's just a personal taste thing i guess.

  177. Bungaroosh

    Not any more we don't. Health & Safety!

  178. Justin Bastian

    There are 6 types of evo. One of which has been proven fact. All other types are just the same as creationism, they're a religion... Get over it.

  179. John Smith

    Wait, the Red Sea parted, and one tribe left Africa and went on to colonise the world?

  180. Kent Ladkin

    Well done Alice. This series give knowledge & wisdom as to who we are, where we came from & our place in the family of life. I have watched it several times to really absorb its significance. The jig saw puzzle eof the nature of humanity now has a major chunk revealed. Thankyou Alice.

  181. bluetortilla

    Pardon my sarcasm, but this series almost has a Lonely Planet feel to it: 'Alice Roberts, our sexy MD and part-time anthropologist, takes us on a global journey in search of the roots of our species.' Unfortunately, we are left with poor science and scenes that smack of racism and/or 'specism.' The Neanderthals are misrepresented, and I was horrified at her saying that they far too 'ugly' for her to consider as a sexual mate. In reality, it is highly doubtful that looks would have deterred interbreeding between the two humanoids, especially young males with females. The jury is still out on this issue, in fact, but the most plausible answer to the riddle of why there is a lack of Neanderthal DNA in modern home sapiens is because there were very few Neanderthals living in Europe, even at their peak. It is quite conceivable that the two groups rarely crossed paths. The Neanderthals may have become extinct without being 'outcompeted' by humans anyway. We just don't know. The homo erectus theory in China is also glibly dismissed despite archeological evidence (no DNA evidence yet) that homo erectus may have contribute its genes to the homo sapiens gene pool as well. There is no evidence at all however to support a separate evolution. From a dark perspective, modern humans capture, show off, and domestic wild animals all the time- why wouldn't they have exhibited similar behavior toward fellow hominids? Humans are extremely curious, and you can bet that where they met other hominids both fighting and other interactions occurred. Some beneficial for both, but often not (look at how so recently and even today human tribes have enslaved each other). Whatever the case, fighting and capturing, or cooperating and absorbing, it is puerile and unprofessional for a scientist to act grossed out about having sex with a Neanderthal. Grow up please! I am an 'ugly' man by the way (though not Neanderthal!), yet I married a 'beautiful' wife and we have two offspring. Nature certainly didn't disfavor 'ugliness' in our case.

  182. MikkiDean

    Mr. Razor, Science believes the entire universe was compressed into a space smaller than a nose hair. Who weird is that?

  183. msea

    You should calm down on the sexual attraction comment. There is no way we would ever be able to 100% prove or disprove how/what Neanderthals perceived as attractive. Also, (no offence), but your sarcastic tone to sexualize Alice in a documentary film about the Human Journey says much about these social perceptions we all carry.

    It would be quite foolish to disregard the shallowness and superficial qualities our society to-date values. Recognizing this as a part of our human development can not be disregarded. Obviously there are 82309285349573489674589673459873493475 plus other factors that are significant in all aspects of perception, stereo-types, sexuality, development, etc. But in fact, what humans find attractive and unattractive (I believe) is more than the glamorized pictures of distorted human bodies. Humans have always enjoyed a sensationalized envision of themselves (humans). Its what differentiates art and artists, writers from poets - not to say either has a lesser value. Look at the Egyptians, Romans, Americans! Every culture has a specific artistic tone and unique appreciation for "attractiveness" (which is truly interested, making one wonder how and why these specific kinds developed as they did for these specific cultures... timing, development, social values and 23940239839405 plus more reasons obvs).

    In fact, the idea of what humans do find attractive is much more than a negative comment to people who feel unattractive or dislike attractive people, or what have you. Instead, the idea of what humans find attractive (I believe) is a unique instinctual feature that ties us quite close to mother nature.

  184. msea

    Another comment, I actually enjoyed the fact that she included the Chinese theory on the homo erectus. I felt that by shedding the limelight on a different scientific perspectives she really allowed the viewer to take into account and question for themselves other scientific theories. It was admirable. And the way the Chinese scientist responded in the end after the testing that disproved this was also admirable. It's not always obligatory that documentaries portray one-sided films. I also thought it was quite respectful that she came to China, and wanted to discuss the theory of the CHINESE scientists instead of trying to just push her own theories to further scew and for the viewer to adapt to a one version film.

  185. Achems_Razor

    How weird is that? not any weirder than some invisible sky friend speaking the entire universe into existence!

  186. bluetortilla

    No offense taken, though my intention was not to sexualize the narrator but rather to express disappointment at the lack of professionalism of the documentary.
    You make interesting comments about sexuality and attraction, which I found very relevant. I suppose my most reliable source of data in this matter is myself, and perhaps more importantly, how I was as a 16-25 year old at my biological sexual prime. While I find there were indeed different levels to attractiveness- romantic, artistic, (idealized and mystic at the highest), there was also a very strong primal desire- that which society tends to call lust, though like nearly all members of my species, I kept under full control and only released it under certain sanctioned circumstances. And I find that though the latter part of the equation has declined in years, the former component was always strong and remains strong now.
    Even more interesting perhaps than that male average is that I always (and still do) find myself fascinated with and greatly attracted to races other than my own. Indeed, I roamed the world and eventually married outside of my race and I have two beautiful and wonderful children from that union (they have had to contend with both attraction and ostracizing within their community, but they are loved and have lots of friends). The point is that are a significant number people attracted to people outside their immediate gene pool, and undoubtedly there always were. Humans have irrepressible curiosity (and frightening brutality). And those symbols for attractiveness that you mention, particular to cultures, I have always found attractive as well- all of them (well with the exception of the stone age Venus perhaps). There seems to be a wide breadth in universal conceptions of beauty.
    I do find people of my own race attractive as well, so for me it is not about self-image, but rather aesthetics, pleasantness, and fascination. I think if you project this sort of attracted response to even a tenth of the population, sexual behavior will always ensure a genome expansion and with mobility the eventual emergence of new genome types (our future as a species may point in far less specific genome divisions than we see today as populations mingle more and more).
    I agree that attractiveness is instinctual artifice and probably universal to all life, not just humans. There's really no way of putting it delicately, but homo sapiens/neanderthal hybrids were not just likely, but a natural outcome of a meeting of two species with so much in common. It's kind of how nature works. I imagine it could have come about through relationships involving cooperation or by force (or both- hopefully the former) but in any case there is now an ample amount of evidence to prove that modern Europeans and Asians carry the Neanderthal genome. Moreover, the data has been cross confirmed. If it remains a debate, this documentary is definitely on the losing side.
    I have no idea why this documentary tries to make us believe that there is no Neanderthal DNA in our blood, as it goes against all the new evidence that is going out. Obviously it as a bias, and I will give them the benefit of the doubt that it is not bigotry (that we are 'pure' after all). Either way, what Neanderthal DNA is present in us does not significantly change us or make Eurasians in any way different from Africans. It is not a controversy.
    I have not studied any information regarding H. Erectus DNA in East Asians (specifically Han Chinese I suppose), but I know that the theory of Erectus evolving into a unique modern Sapiens is roundly discredited. Still, I did not like the way that doctor was ridiculed ('see, the skull is a flat face like mine'). I'm sure he has more compelling evidence than that. To wit, there is great deal of circumstantial evidence that Erectus cohabited with modern Asian humans, and it is most probable under such circumstances that mating occurred. Whether fertile offspring (at least female) or any offspring at all (which seems unlikely given how closely the two are related) were produced has not been accounted for (the second doctor's conclusion). But this encounter is still under investigation. Again, whatever the outcome, it highly unlikely that either Neanderthal or Erectus had little if any impact on modern human evolution in terms of cognitive functions. 'The Chinese are the same as anyone else' is what the documentary was trying to point out, and that is obviously true.
    That's what I got out of it. Remarks aside about the narrator, this documentary had its own agenda, feigned impartiality, and blatantly ignored heaps of scientific data and facts. I couldn't watch it beyond this episode.

  187. aquape

    Incredible that people (i.c. Alice Roberts) keep repeating the old savanna idea without scientific evidence. According to all fossil, paleo-environmental, physiological etc.data, our ancestors during the Ice Ages (Pleistocene Homo) did not run over open plains, sweating water + salt (both scarce in savannas), but simply followed the coasts & rivers (at least as far as Java, Georgia, Turkana & Algeria 1.8 mill.yrs ago), beach-combing, diving & wading bipedally for littoral, shallow aquatic & waterside foods. For recent evidence on human evolution, google e.g. researchGate marc verhaegen

  188. VK

    Why did they leave Africa in the first place ?

  189. B Robert

    Alice Roberts' coverage is excruciatingly annoying. Her perky attitude and voice are so annoying. Her presentation of facts and story through locale shoots and imposing herself as some Indiana Jones type great white hope figure is annoying. The whole thing reeks of colonialism, and white British woman privilege. She seems ill equipped compared to peers in both the scientific and journalistic community. Why is the story being told as though she is an investigator n the ground when she is discovering nothing and finding nothing that hasn't already been discovered, explained, or unexplained? It's very childish and cookie-cutter style of presentation of facts. The whole thing seems like an excuse for her and her crew to go on a trip around the world on the BBC dime. Going to people around these parts then footnoting it with over-narration of random facts or hyperbolic speculation of one-sided viewpoints, isn't a good way to tell the complicated scientific story. Furthermore, the whole endeavour is to prove the Out of Africa theory, when in actuality there has become growing evidence (or convoluted confusion) that either the Multiple Regional Evolution is true, or that there is a combination of happenings and intersections of possibilities. And, most importantly, the fact that genetic make ups show some African descent doesn't prove Africa as the source, nor can genes go backwards to all specific time intervals and trace in a linear fashion micro origins (i.e. if millions of years species were from Indonesia in one generation or even two, then came to Africa for 500 generations, and then back to Indonesia for the rest of time, there is no certainty that genetics can pin point which came first; and, being homosapien species can be proven but linear migrations in genetics can't....only fossil discoveries and radio carbon data can come close, but even then it's not exact either. If areas of migration intermingle but only the African way out of migration happened in a later stage that our records can actually prove, then all that was before is near impossible to prove. I think there were multiple evolutionary developments. One in the Americas, Europe, East Asia, Indonesia, and Africa. What stages came first is unbeknownst to me. I believe that these multiple developments migrated and intermingled with each other as homo-sapiens and as other homo species in early stages as well. Bottom line: there is much to be known and unknown for millennia to come. To be so certain goes against the scepticism of most scientists who vigorously test and search truth. Roberts is also a devout atheist so it is surprising to see such a lack of scepticism. Yet I then realized she WANTS to propagate a fixed 'one-is-all' theory to combat sceptics of evolution since evolution is her main ingredient to her devout atheism and scepticism of God as creator. I am also against God theory but I am not for replacing God Creator theory with God Evolution theory. Nor does evolution counter creation, and vice versa. Some other agenda seemed to be luring on her part. The entire show was informed and shaped by her biases and her choices of stylization and presentation of facts and story. Anything that tries unite all things into a neat package should be suspect. God nor evolutionary process can't possibly be understood by us even it were all true, and that that truth would become more and more a confluence of multiple truths forming our perception as a whole. This show doesn't present other scientists alternative theories, nor the debunking of many of the assumed taken-as-is facts by Roberts. She is a glorified tv talking head with a cute smile. She is no different then the dolts in American news who backed by a degree and privileged upbringing and experiences and network of power, they get to host important things with zero credibility and ability all for the sake of ratings and image.

  190. B Robert

    couldn't agree more...it seemed so flaky and something that would be made for Nickelodeon's Kids channel

  191. B Robert

    Thank science. Alice didn't do anything. She was annoying and imposed her own self all over the facts and story of science. She is poor excuse for a scientist and journalist.

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