Legally High

2013 ,    »  -   97 Comments
195
7.58
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Ratings: 7.58/10 from 53 users.
Storyline
Legally High

Youth do not just say no. They say yes and they say yes often and as the time goes on they have more and more things to say yes to. We have to accept that there's a big demand for drugs.

Every time we ban one, the chemists will get around it. Some people think that if drugs are made legal they'll be safe and of course that's completely wrong.

While previous generations had heroin, cocaine, cannabis, ecstasy, and handful of other conventional drugs, young people across UK now have dozens of other new drugs to choose from. Many young people are now using synthetic drugs customized by clandestine chemists to get around Britain's drug laws. They're legal to buy because they're sold as research chemicals not for human consumption.

The new drugs are synthesized in India and China and they're coming out faster than the government can ban them. They all have strange chemical names and they're very cheap. One of the most wanted is Ethylphenidate - a cheap, legal stimulant sold online as a research chemical. Fifty grams cost about £320... a seventy doses.

Long term effects and health risks of the use of these research chemicals are completely unknown but head shops selling research chemicals and legal highs have sprung up on Britain's high streets. Before research chemicals became big business the only people who knew about them were psychonauts - people who try out new drugs and swap notes online.

Every year tons of legal highs are delivered by post. Forty thousand parcels an hour pass through the international postal hub in Coventry. A handful of suspect parcels are held back for testing in the examination room and they almost always test positive for legal highs.

This compelling, empirical documentary - directed by triple BAFTA-award winner Dan Reed - takes a journey into a gloomy world where covert chemists come up with new drugs faster than the government can make laws against them.

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97 Comments / User Reviews

  1. NX2

    Ah,this doc gives research chemicals more publicity, though it isn't something new. It all began with Dr.Shulgin, i guess. It's been going on for decades, although it used to be more of an underground 'scene', what's new here is that a broader audience gets reached. And i'm afraid marketing and profit are the main motivators behind this. And that's not a good thing., because a lot of people get reached that obviously haven't done their research or haven't adopted a more careful attitude. It's very apparent from some of the comments on certain forums. By the way, i'm not saying that research and attitude are by any means a guarantee for safety, it simply isn't, but it is a means of minimizing risks. It always will be a risky exploration, and therefore probably never a mainstream one. There will always be psychonautic explorers but some people get foolishly attracted to it, these days.

    I'm not actively following it anymore, but i had a bit of a quick look at the old sites i used to frequent. Let me say, there's a lot more substances available than i used to know about. It doesn't seem to me it's something that can be stopped, i wonder where it will lead?

    Also, i feel i need to give a bit of advice, just in case someone would feel like exploring research chemicals, though i really don't recommend it. But if you do, know that you will have some work/ research to do, Be very aware of the right kind of vendor, because there's a lot of crappy ones out there that couldn't care less about you. And if you can't find any info on an unknown substance, then don't even think about it. Seriously!
    Or perhaps an even better advice, please reconsider, it's quite easy to make a mistake.

  2. jaberwokky

    Insightful comment, thanks for sharing.

    I wonder what old school psychonauts like OLeary, McKenna and Huxley would make of it all?

  3. Epicurus

    IMO Leary and McKenna were some of the initial people who brought designer drugs into the public eye and should not be looked up to.

    Huxley was more scientific about it and did not endorse just ANYONE using it.

    To be fair I think i remember Timothy Leary admitting that he wished he hadnt popularized LSD so much having over estimated the responsibility of the general public.....but f*ck McKenna.

  4. dmxi

    these are just symptoms of the current times/zeitgeist....the remains of
    'GENERATION
    X' turned into a 'F*CK-IT' mentality which obliterates caution towards
    body & soul balance & blows open the gates to addiction of any
    kind.scared of missing out the next 'buzz' diminishes the worries of
    every day necessities which seem to be more of a burden than crucial for
    the existence of civil society....which without our
    'partying-compatriots' would shrivel up & perish.a bit harsh,i
    know,i'm just moody at the moment>smirk<.............

  5. bringmeredwine

    I totally get that a young person would enjoy trying new drugs, especially if their friends are all doing it. But older people?

  6. dmxi

    the stigma of drug use is drifting more & more towards 'positive' & 'cool' lifestyle that it has lost it's fear of being excluded from the social community....no wonder that the shackles of age are not an immune boundary anymore.

  7. terrasodium

    I've heard Aldous Huxley refer to the societial use of this type of psycotropic straitjacketing as the ultimate revolution.

  8. jaberwokky

    Would it be fair to say that generation X has been replaced with generation XBox?
    I tend to agree with what the illustrious Israeli born mathematician/chemist says in the doc, it's all about the easy route, the short circuiting that leads directly to pay dirt. Rats hitting buttons.

  9. NX2

    Good question, but In relation to these new substances, they look rather 'conventional'. I would wonder what Shulgin would make of it. I haven't got the impression he would agree.

  10. jaberwokky

    Yeah probably not. I recently watched a doc on Shulgin and the various troubles resulting from his activities. I'd feel a lot safer knowing any chemical I was imbibing was one of his creations to be honest. Not that I would take them, just saying.

  11. dmxi

    generation x-box is too fair & general.....it 'feels' more like 'generation wtf???' & i don't want to be unfair.styles & choices in youth culture have seemingly conglomerated in the late 90ties/early 2000 into a feast of 'cross-overs' without oversight & sense,imo.
    sounds like "everything was better in the old days" drivel but au contraire...it's just turned mainstream as the old saying goes:"if you can't beat 'em...flog 'em what they want'' instead!

  12. Yogurt Head

    I'm not going to watch this based on the biased and inaccurate text I read in the preview:

    "Some people think that if drugs are made legal they'll be safe and of course that's completely wrong."

    If the naturally occurring drugs were made legal, the synthetic (and harmful) drugs would sky-dive in demand. I refuse to listen to garbage from ignoramuses.

  13. beepath

    Durn! is "Reefer Madness" still going around? I thought that it was nonsense laughed out of existence since the '70s

  14. Keith

    I agree that the statement is a bit silly, and they use the term "legal high" for these drugs so it's just misleading and I don't know why they would have thought that was a good label for drugs.

  15. Jordan

    This is my testimony/advice to others interested in this topic:

    I do NOT inject, first of all. I've never injected anything in my life. I've always purchased this "synthetic cannabis" to pack a bowl and smoke it. It's more enjoyable and you are able to regulate your intake much better. Having said that, please continue reading.

    I was addicted to synthetic cannabis/spice/"incense" for over two years. Do I regret it? Absolutely NOT. It was literally the best time in my entire life. My buddies and I smoked it together all the time, and we provided it for people at parties we threw at no charge because we were all in safe environments. Nobody ever had a "freak out" at our responsible and respectful parties, which were some of greatest social moments I've experienced. The caliber of people involved often make life events regrettable or wonderful memories.

    The only reason I quit was because the State of Georgia started "cracking down" on it and I had to be careful for legal reasons, and I wasn't making enough money to keep smoking it. It was MUCH more affordable than weed, and just as potent. Sure, your tolerance goes up the more you smoke it, as your tolerance goes up with most drugs. Self-control and responsibility to others is something human beings seem to have a hard time with concerning just about everything, hence all of the laws for "the common good."

    Packing a bowl with synthetic cannabis/spice became a favorite pastime of myself and my best friend, who was also my roommate for two years. Our minds were allowed to tap into realms of enjoyment, bliss, happiness, intellectualism, visions, shamanic states, spiritual attunement, and thought streams most people go their whole lives never getting the opportunity to experience. Smoking anything isn't good for you, sure. But then again, stress (something the global population experiences to higher degrees than ever before because of modern globalism and social demands) isn't either.

    Synthetic cannabis, if used responsibly, can be an aid for life's journeys and a method by which one can be inspired artistically, spiritually, and socially, to journey even further. When I was addicted, I was the happiest person I ever was and didn't feel like the monetarily poor college dropout I was. I just worked full-time, covered the basics, smoked a bowl with my roommate whenever I got the chance, and we bonded in a way that was significant to both of us, even many months later as we both reflect on our shared experiences. Smoking it was the key for both of us to summon enough courage to talk about what our spirits felt were important, and feelings we shared about different aspects of the world in which we live.

    Yes, I was an addict, but an evolved and functional one. Hell, sometimes I even served tables high (and got great tips because I was feeling happy to go above and beyond) and did transcription work high and got promoted for it. This stuff gave me a new reason to wake up and activate my mind every day.

    I'll never regret my experiences smoking synthetic cannabis. The "freak-outs" are a rare occurrence for people. Sometimes you are able to see other aspects of reality your mind is not ready for. I have seen MANY horrible visions in my mind's eye, but I was prepared for that. I have also seen some of the most beautiful patterns and thoughts you can only imagine.

    The "freak outs" people have can result from weak minds (same thing with bad trips on mushrooms/LSD), drunken unpreparedness for psychoactive activity that ensues, or miscalculation of amounts to smoke (which can also happen with mushrooms/LSD). This stuff is best done solo (meaning without other substances), without heavy drinking or ANY other combinations of drugs (a little alcohol is okay). People who smoke an entire 4 grams of this stuff in one night their first time and have "freak outs" are the reason people put a negative spin on it.

    As for smoking it individually or in groups, the effects are the same really in either case. It is better if all smokers stay in one area or room to actually do the smoking itself (to be considerate to those who don't wish to) and then rejoin the rest of the party once everyone is sure each other is okay to proceed. It is best not to drive or leave the premises, no matter how tempting. EVERYTHING will be interesting, even the conversations, so you must make yourself commit to staying indoors or training your behavior to not look suspicious to outsiders/police/whoever you don't want knowing you're high. Because of the frequent crack-downs on this stuff by local police, it is rather risky to frequent the public when under the influence (OF ANY SUBSTANCE).

    This drug is best purchased with three warnings from an experienced "psychonaut"/mystic/occultist: 1) Tolerance is a factor, so always do small dosages until many months go by and your tolerance naturally tells you that you need a little more to achieve the effect. 2) As with all substances, set aside blocks of time to experience the effects, and consider the safety of others, as well as important activities and relationships, lest the grip of addiction takes you and you see everything but your newly adventurous mind go to waste. Use this as a tool to aid you in your life, rather than a crutch. 3) Your mind will take you where you have trained it to go, so if your mind and/or spirit (if you believe you have one) are negatively conditioned or you have many dark thoughts, you will experience those. Conversely, if you have many good, loving thoughts, or naturally curious thoughts about your mind, those thoughts will be amplified and put at the forefront of your consciousness. Guard your thoughts, because synthetic cannabis has been known to create borderline hallucinatory states.

    Every material is a tool that can be used for construction or destruction. Be careful not to judge the material based on purely lesser human nature's dealings with it, but in addition, judge the material based on higher human nature's dealings with it. Humanity makes synthetic cannabis a perceived "danger" to itself because of its collectively addictive nature. Why all the negative reviews? It's because nobody chooses to focus on the positive. Humanity can overcome its negative tendencies in order to use practically anything -- homelessness, celibacy, drugs, alcohol, meditation, sleep, sex, food -- to enhance itself, rather than simply indulge.

    I let the temptation become too great one time and I had a "freak out" where I thought I was going to die but ended up being just fine the next day. I had consumed a little too much synthetic cannabis because my tolerance was up, and I was being stupid, as humanity often is. I went two years without a "freak out," up until the very end of my journey. Some have been more fortunate, and others less.

    Trust your instincts, and develop your mind first. You wouldn't drive a car without knowing anything about it (unless your judgment is poor), so don't smoke this stuff without having researched the hell out of it and testing it out yourself.

    I hope my story offered some perspective to what seems to be a very ONE-sided story dished out to the public via the mainstream media and society in general, which frowns upon psychoactive drugs, yet promotes the indulgence of alcohol and pharmaceutical medications to "relieve" problems of the mind. Double standards abound.

    If you have any questions about my testimony, feel free to post a response. I am now 26 years old and have not smoked spice since August of 2013. I have smoked weed a couple of times, and enjoy it thoroughly, but it is not as psychoactive as synthetic cannabis was. Synthetic cannabis was my drug of choice.

  16. ~Oliver B Koslik Esq

    14:20

    "Surprisingly a public expectation that if something hasn't been banned, its almost like the government has given it a stamp of approval. By virtue of it not being banned, it must be something that the government is comfortable with".

    This is a common mentality of those wishing to affirm things they know are harmful / hurtful.

    Great Doc
    +1

  17. bringmeredwine

    It's alive and well where I live in Canada. People of all ages. I might take a puff every 2 years, if that.
    It feels too strong now compared to the stuff I inhaled almost daily, in my high school days (1970's).

  18. beepath

    I come from the days of $10 lids, whoopee!

  19. shafawn

    Your description of a 'weak mind' is more often someone who has experienced emotional trauma in their life that hasn't fully been able to deal with it yet. The earlier the trauma the harder it is to grasp emotionally. You have a different form of tunnel vision but it's still narrow mindedness.

  20. bringmeredwine

    Did you have nickel bags? Lol.
    I remember when a joint was only 50 cents.
    We were outraged when they climbed up to a dollar!

  21. Dr D. M. Smith

    I still marvel at the way marijuana is lumped in together with heroin, crack, meth, and all the other "new" "Drugs". Pot is simply NOT the same, and should not be treated as such. My personal experience in Viet Nam was that the guys who were smoking, could shake it off, get their helmets and flak jackets, and get out to the berm, and defend the hill. The guys who were drinking couldn't do anything. They either stayed in their hooch, passed out, or staggered around outside, not knowing what to do....Those were the guys getting killed....and booze is still sold openly, along with cigarettes. Go Figure.

  22. FERENC CSICSERI

    Just because you don't inject anything in your life don't make you special you just another drug addict so don't fool yourself is not how you do it is what you do you intake a substance what is not desired for human existence

  23. FERENC CSICSERI

    Don't forget all the drugs we're legal by one point until the government made it illegal simple is that and doesn't matter what you call it or what is made off will be banned because is not profitable for the gov.a bunch of peoples high not productive and dangerous to the public.One thing for sure if the government would not hunting drug addicts rather educate them what are these substances and what is happening to them if they take them the big Taboo would be changed into a one time of experience or more but we would not see peoples shooting up hiding because would be not a big deal.It's plenty substances is out there we take in the daily bases which is worse than all these crap together but we called Medicine and your doctor give it to you.Everything you consume you should research it rather just take it because all the idiots telling you is good

  24. Russ G

    some folk don't need an excuse

  25. beepath

    A joint was a dollar in 1978, and it had best been strong!

  26. FERENC CSICSERI

    You can't really justified what happen in Vietnam because one soldier smoke pot the other just drink alcohol ,any mind altering substance effect your judgment even in combat situation.and maybe we lost the Vietnam War because was just too many soldier high or just simply that War was wrong.and if we going to talk about war with high soldiers don't forget the dead soldiers been shipped back to the US with Heroin inside their bodies,or Hitler's soldiers on Methamphatemine so if I' have to choose I' stay on my hooch and don't kill innocent woman and children and thinking I' fight for my Country that bastards Nixon should be there covered with mud and crawling through jungles but smoking as much pot he could and those Generals who profited from those dead soldiers who's bodies was filled with illegal Heroin

  27. Fabien L'Amour

    The pupils of the guy at the 29 minutes mark are as dilated as possible. Bet he can see in pitch darkness!

    As I have said several times before, legalize all psychoactive substances and use existing laws to control criminal behaviors. The repressive tactic is proven not to work over and over unless the goal is to create jobs processing non dangerous people in the legal system. Prohibition also feeds organized crime which in my opinion is much more detrimental to society than full legalization.

  28. dmxi

    that is very bad advice!a testimony???....yes,but callous to spout subjective experience as objective wisdom,esp. when untested toxins are in play!plain to see you are without offspring or would you brief your children on illegal substances with the manifesto you have sold us here as 'advice'?
    thumbs down,mate!

  29. jaberwokky

    Not trying to anger the mods, I just wanted to say this while they are currently cleaning up after us yet again. It's always a pleasure to talk to a fellow STP and Scott Weiland fan, it's all too rare an occurrence for me. I hadn't turned up the volume and listened to my Pilots collection for a while now but because of our convo that's what I did all day today( solo albums and all) so thanks for the moment of inspiration :)

    Edit: You rock!

  30. NX2

    I agree with you on legalization, though not for all psychoactive substances. Especially with some of those new research chemicals, safety is quite an issue. There's some weird s*it out there. Just to make the comparison, you wouldn't want all new pharmaceutical drugs to be released on the market without proper testing.

  31. NX2

    To some extent i can agree, but I think your advice might be more appropriate on forums where people discus their use of synthetic cannabis.

  32. Jordan

    Thanks for the responses, however negative. I am appreciate of all feedback. It looks like nobody really has any questions, only criticisms, which is fine.

    Yes, I am just another drug addict, if you want to jump right into it and label other living souls as such. Just know that I don't somehow view myself as superior because I refuse to inject. I am simply turned off by the idea of direct bloodstream injection because the effects are instant and all at once, very intense. I choose to smoke because, like I said previously, I can choose the level of dosage and not overdo it as long as I'm careful. I want to remain conscious of what I'm doing and simply have an altered state.

    So, I don't view myself as better. Nobody is better than any other person. We're all immigrants to this planet and none of us have s*it that doesn't stink. I am glad that you can simply just dismiss my perspective comfortably and not give me any credibility whatsoever and think less of me because I can admit I am a former addict. It must be a nice feeling to be so sure of another person. I wasn't attacking those who avoid drugs in my information. I was saying I find perspectives that are so one-sided these days. It's hard to find a documentary that promotes the usage of psychedelics or psychoactive substances in the mainstream now, and that's all I was saying. I don't judge individual humans because of their moral stance on things.

    Why would my information for people interested in this subject be better placed in a forum for actual users? If you're trying to get different sides of information about a subject, talk to people who know about the subject firsthand. That's what people in this documentary did, didn't they? I'm just another part of the documentary, if you want to look at it like that.

    My very basic story above (it IS a testimony because I'm a former addict, and I'm swearing to tell the truth as I remember it and see it, as if under oath) is just my perspective as a typical young man who chose not to have kids and wasn't fitting in in college, which is really the ideal time in life to experiment with things and "get it out of your system," as they say.

    I'm not declaring my information to be objective wisdom. I'm offering advice and perspective to people who are legitimately interested in this subject. I want to be honest about the positive side effects the drug can have if used in moderation and if used responsibly. I also want to warn people about the dangers of its addictive nature (and humanity's tendency to give in and forget their real circumstances). I'm comfortable stating such information. If you're not comfortable with me stating such information, could I ask why you visit this "truth-seeking" website in the first place? It's a rhetorical question.

    People are going to experiment with substances if they have the urge, so it is best to make available certain first-hand accounts of a particular substance being used to give the researcher or potential user some perspective, just like meth or heroin (which I never used).

    The ideal time in life to experiment with drugs, if you're going to regardless, is when you don't have offspring. So if you fault me for that, you fault all human beings who use synthetic cannabis or experiment with any sort of mind-altering substance, because they're all not "desired for human existence." Neither is Coca-Cola. You have the right to avoid all unnatural substances, but expecting all people to serve your utopian vision for 100% sobriety among humanity is a pipe dream. So I'm taking the logical approach and being a realist for those who are either interested in using, have considered using, have already used, or are just wanting to research the effects. I'm doing my part by telling my story, and you're doing your part by watching the documentary at the least.

    I do not claim to be wise. Any addict of any kind has a void in life that needs to be filled or a vice that they feel they need to escape from, or they have become bored with life and simply want to alter their mind. My situation was a combination of being interested in the occult/mental faculties and the potential of the human mind when in an altered state, battling depression, and having a general disdain for the corrupt world we live in, so I wanted a form of inspiration to keep staying here and not commit suicide (something I've been battling since I was a boy but not any longer as of a few weeks ago). I got that inspiration while smoking with my friends (and family), and we all had a blast when we did partake. You can berate someone for experiencing something in a positive way and not having regrets, but you are the one who has to go to bed with the feelings of disgust at night, not the person you attack.

    I am not sure how this is "bad advice," as I'm not encouraging the use of the substance among all humanity. I'm simply telling my story and giving appropriate warnings, but also giving my moral viewpoint on this, which is that I do support shamanistic drug use and other psychoactive substances by those who do not have "weak minds," meaning those who are either undeveloped/too young, are easily paranoid or influenced by the disorders they battle, etc., not just those "weak minds" with emotional trauma.

    I'm simply saying that despite the risks and effects, which I knew about before I started smoking (I knew there could be random chemicals, sure, but I didn't focus on that, because I wanted to experiment -- kind of like when you buy a pill or some weed from a dealer out of excitement and run the risk of having the pill or weed laced with rat poison, but you're not exactly focusing on that when you buy the product), I still ended up having the best time of my life while smoking regularly, and I'm now very healthy today and have no regrets.

    Like I said, emotional stress literally kills people these days, and those wanting to experiment with mind-altering substances to kick-start their journey into inner peace and escape from the stresses of the modern world are great in number. That's why so many bars are full on the weekends and many people get wasted into a state of blacking out and feeling like shit the next day, unless they're immune to hangovers. This substance called synthetic cannabis allows you to forget the world around you and get to know your own mind (and the minds of others nearby) in a more intimate, mystical way.

    So, what exactly am I saying that is so vile and offensive to people? All I'm seeing is people telling me to get out of here, or that my advice isn't "good" or worthwhile because I wouldn't tell my kids this. My response to that: If my kid was researching this subject in the first place, like you people are doing, this is EXACTLY the advice and information I would give my children, because honesty is the best route to take with your children. But because I chose not to have kids at a young age, and am a young, healthy adult, it is the most ideal time in life to experiment with mind-altering substances/shamanic methods if I am going to do it. If you think I'm wrong for experimenting because of my health, age, offspring status, and marriage status (a healthy 20-something-year-old male with no kids and no wife), you think everyone else is wrong too, probably, so I would probably say you hold some radical views in life, which isn't always bad.

    Thanks again for the feedback. Sorry if this response is too long. I just care about other people and where they're headed in life, and I care about how people view me too, because it's important to all humans to feel accepted among their own kind.

  33. a_no_n

    One of the worst experiences I ever had was on a "legal high".

    It was a synthetic weed pill, It was very full on, and took me to a couple of extreme (and mostly unwelcome) sensations and then followed that up with a comedown that lasted for the best part of two days...My partner went through very much the same ordeal...never again. never ever EVER!

  34. a_no_n

    What is a lid exactly? I hear that term all the time in films, but being British have no idea what it actually is.

    Over here the term we most commonly bought with was "a Henry".
    Henry used to cost £15 ($25), it meant Henry the eighth and got you an 8th of an ounce.

    ahh...nostalgia.

  35. Jordan

    Sorry to hear about your negative experience. The highs are extreme, yes. They are more psychoactive. Weed is more of a relaxing drug than synthetic weed. I am glad to hear that you have at least made a firm decision regarding this substance, as there are those who aren't as easily turned off by it and are battling addiction.

  36. Imightberiding

    Did you just use the word "zeitgeist" in a sentence without any intent at irony or humour?

  37. a_no_n

    it was just easier to grow my own real weed...

  38. Jordan

    A "weak mind" means a lot of things because there are a lot of people who suffer different mental sensitivities, and it's not mostly trauma. Talk about narrow mindedness.

    Trauma could be just ONE of the sensitivities that make up a weak mind, or some psychological disorder the person is born with, or some psycho-spiritual affliction of the mind (a curse/oppression), or an emotionally rattled state of mind because of stress from the day, or the simple fact that the mind is weak because the person is simply too young and underdeveloped (a young brain). Those are just some possibilities.

    Yeah, I have tunnel vision. We all do. We're all narrow minded. So now that we've established we're all narrow minded, nothing has changed that fact. Good job. *Golf clap.*

  39. Jordan

    I wish I could do that properly :).

  40. Jordan

    And don't forget chemical processes that affect mental states like depression, btw. Trauma is just a small part of weak-mindedness. Self-loathing could play a part too, to a degree.

  41. a_no_n

    I get what you're saying, but he wasn't trying to justify Vietnam.

  42. a_no_n

    it is a LOT easier than you'd think.

    Hardest thing about it is finding a space for it.

  43. a_no_n

    there's a documentary on this website called "ultimate grow". by far the most comprehensive on the subject that i've seen and the best starting point for researching :)

  44. shafawn

    Ok Jordan all good descriptions and definitions but don't you realize you now have pretty much described the majority of the population?
    Legalizing drugs is not the answer. It just compounds problems.
    Drug and alcohol use is already very high. For the first time in American history suicide in young people has out numbered middle aged people. And our big evolved enlightened answer is to legalize drugs? wow.. it's just sad.

  45. Fabien L'Amour

    Of course, the harder stuff would be distributed by pharmacists in my dream world which would be 100 times better than some pusher on the street or chemicals peddler on the net.

  46. NX2

    lol, you're right, it would be quite some kind of dream world, and then some... We might both be a tad bit idealistic in this regard. But still, it's something that needs to be considered.

  47. dmxi

    the problem with your first post was that you lacked the humble approach
    & insight....it just seemed like an ego justification without
    responsibility of the ramifications,that's how it came across.you're
    last post (i'm responding to) proves me somewhat wrong though & i
    understand you much better now...so that's a definite
    'thumbs-up',mate.i'm an ex user of heroin (i.v.,yes...the chase of the
    ultimate rush) & i'm a firm believer in the usage of hemp,so i know
    & have wandered the addiction route which is the reason i criticized
    your words as callous.....but thanks for letting your mask fall &
    sharing your thoughts in detail,persuading me to revise my first
    impression.well done,sir!

  48. NX2

    Hi Jordan,
    you're quite alright you know, so don't worry about that.
    Not all comments towards you were meant to be negative.
    But can i ask you to reply to each commenter in question specifically? Some of the commenters are active on multiple threads, and if you don't reply to them directly, they don't get a notification and your post might get overlooked. Just a suggestion.
    When i said that your advice would be more appropriate on other forums, that is because your previous comment very much came across as advocating/ promoting the use of synthetic cannabis, whether you intended that to be or not.
    Don't get me wrong, i understand where you are coming from, there was i time i had a stance similar to yours. There is a spiritual/ mystical aspect to the use of drugs, although that's actually not correct. It's not the drugs but it's you (or anyone) who makes it that way. As soon you are dependent upon a substance or are addicted, that aspect gets diminished over time. There's a spiritual aspect to life as well without any substance. I've got the feeling you're aware of this.

  49. beepath

    How clever, "I'll take a Henry, by gawd's teeth!" Being an anglophile myself, I can appreciate the term. A lid simply identified an amount of weed, in a baggie, BTW. The worst weed was the Mexican Mud Dope, take a hit and it tasted like dirt (mud). The very best would be "sappy sensi." Those were the days my friend, we thought they'd never end.....

  50. jaberwokky

    Outstanding recommendation a_no_n, don't know how I missed that doc for so long. Thanks.

  51. bringmeredwine

    Thanks for that.
    This is a very sad day for me.
    Hope to read your comments on Haiti and the sea doc, soon.

  52. bringmeredwine

    I couldn't agree with you more, about the spiritual/mystic aspect or lack there of.
    I had to put up with someone stoned on natural weed and drunk on beer all weekend.
    It was a very pathetic thing to watch.
    And the pie eyed users of the synthetic drugs just made me react with disgust and I don't know, is disgust too harsh a word?

  53. jaberwokky

    I've been watching "The battle for Haiti" in segments because it's too bitter to take in one sitting. No doubt I'll chip in with my 2 cents when I've cooled down a bit, still a little too hot headed for pubic consumption at the moment. I keep missing my cue when it comes to dropping the keyboard and going for a walk.
    Sad day? What's up? Hope it's not bad news :/

  54. a_no_n

    Lol, the worst thing we get is called soap bar, it's Hash but it's really impure...i've had soap bar that's had bit's of plastic bag in it, and i've heard that the absolute worst stuff has bits of old tyres in it...but that's an old wives tale i can't verify.
    I see so a lid is like a standard measurement...just out of idle curiosity what weight is an average lid?

    another odd little terminology, Roach, for us a roach is a little piece of cardboard that you roll up and put in the end in place of a filter...For you guys a roach is like the last few draws of a joint right? (which we call a dog end).
    Of course the joy of growing up is getting your own place and growing your own :D

  55. a_no_n

    pleased to have helped. Trust me mate, follow that guys advice and get yourself a nice little 300watt duel spectrum light, and a few autoflower seeds, and never have to speak to a dealer again ;)

  56. bringmeredwine

    I'm glad you posted your comments!
    If I didn't give an up vote, it's because I agreed with what you once wrote, but not all of it.
    I'm always in a bit of a dilemma when this happens.
    I hope you continue to post here because your comments are very worthwhile and I enjoyed reading them.
    And this latest post clarified a few things, too:)

  57. oQ

    I would add if you live in an apartment with neighbours, get a small air filter, the smell at time of flowering can be strong and easily recognizable.

  58. Jordan

    I'm glad I could clarify! Sure, I don't expect people to agree 100%. That's why we communicate about things :). I guess I am indeed one of the lucky ones (in my own strange way) to have had mostly pleasant experiences while I was a dropout in college skimping by on the bare minimum. I'm also fortunate to have had the huge circle of friends that I did who never had a "freak out" or a bad high on synthetic weed. I'm off of it now, though, but look forward to the next time I can relax on the weekend and just smoke a little and get inspired to write music!!! Many blessings to you, bringmeredwine!

  59. Jordan

    Yes, I will be happy to respond individually. I wasn't aware that you didn't receive a notification (I don't post many comments on this website). Yes, concerning the spiritual/mystic aspects... synthetic cannibas and other psychoactive drugs can indeed be viewed as a "primer," or an "amplifier" or a "kickstart" to get your creative juices flowing and possibly even permanently open gateways to your mind that you couldn't as easily "unlock" or "prime" before. For that reason, I do support the use of psychedelics among those who go through a process of self-evaluation for themselves and decide that they do in fact want to experiment with a mind-altering substance and set up safe conditions under which to do so. So, yes, it's not active promotion, but rather, a moral stance that says these types of things are okay for society in general, given that we all have struggles of self-control to emerge the victors over in not just one area of life.

  60. Jordan

    It is not unnatural to be disgusted with someone who is in a heavily intoxicated state of mind for hours or days, because beta-wave, active consciousness is our normal state of mind, and when we see humans in a condition other than that, we become concerned about their safety, as we are very social and spiritual creatures. It is best for partakers of psychedelic/psychoactive substances to choose an environment where the use of the substances won't create a weird "vibe" for the others who live/operate in the environment. The exception to this would be if you are a "trip buddy" who is supervising someone doing a heavy psychoactive/psychedelic substance. Other than that, it must be agreed upon beforehand that you will tolerate that person's condition if he/she chooses to experiment; otherwise, a natural concern, and then disgust, is usually the result - because we cannot do anything at the time to get them to want to exit that state of mind, and because we cannot relate to them in the same way socially/spiritually when they are coming down from intoxication.

  61. bringmeredwine

    Yes.
    It was definitely not the right time or place, and it went on the entire weekend.

  62. bringmeredwine

    Um, did you mean to write "public"? Lol

  63. jaberwokky

    Hahaha. Oh dear :/

  64. a_no_n

    i don't have that problem, but that's totally down to luck...you are of course entirely right.

  65. NX2

    No, disgust isn't to harsh if you know how to counterbalance it :)
    There's certainly a difference between being intoxicated all the time and being on a substance once or twice a year (or more or less, depending on your substance of choice and your social life.)

  66. NX2

    Ah, i understand very well your support of substance use. There are drugs that make you more susceptible of the more subtle perceptions, or drugs that distort the perception in such way you start to question it or exploring it more. And there's the drugs that diminish or totally block all perception, though you are still aware of...yeah well, what exactly? (And there's also the aspect of sedating versus activating.)
    All things you might not get as easily access to as without drugs. I know that.
    But still it's not something i personally support, just because of the risks involved, even if it were only the risk of addiction. But then again, neither am i against it.
    There is however an other way, of which i'm more supportive. Meditation and yoga for example. I know it doesn't seem so effective or spectacular as drugs in the beginning, but you might turn out to be quite surprised. There is a point where you will realise that not your consciousness but your attention needs the exercise, though at times let it be free too :)

  67. bringmeredwine

    Well, this is a youngster who goes off like this whenever he gets the chance. He reminded me so much of the fellows in the doc.
    Thanks:)

  68. beepath

    You know, I haven't smoked weed in 32 years or had alcohol. I began to roll my own cigarettes and needed a "roach" clip to hold the "butt" so I wouldn't burn my fingers or have them turn yellow from the nicotine. So, I went into an auto parts store to get what I'd always called a roach clip. There was a long line of guys who heard me talking to the guy behind the counter. I thought nothing of asking for a roach clip. Everyone cracked up and the counter guy amazingly asked if I didn't mean an "alligator clip?" I was horrified! Having 32 years clean and sober in AA/NA certainly was not credible in that moment. I bought the alligator clip and blushed my way out of there. I'm sure they all thought I was stoned. HAHAHA Yes, I believe a lid had the standard measurement of a Henry. I'm sure the word "lid" is not in use these days, but I don't know who I would ask.

    The soap bar does sound dreadful but I'm sure I smoked a lot of "paraquat pot." I would get these awful headaches and could even taste the chemical. I had very bad migraines every six weeks like clockwork. All I know is that when I quit doing any drugs, the migraines disappeared. Yay!

  69. Jordan

    I agree with you about meditation and yoga. Franz Bardon claimed that once a neophyte studied and practiced the meditation required to develop his/her mind magically/spiritually, the evolved person could recreate experiences that are often touched upon with drugs, only these experiences would be just as powerful if not more than drug use -- a state of bliss and visions to acquire knowledge about one's self.

  70. a_no_n

    Christ, forgive my assumption but you must be going back a fair while for that. instead of nickle bags we had Louis'...as in louis the sixteenth and naturally that was a sixteenth of an ounce...1.75g. (Of course over here we tend to roll our joints with tobacco in them because it would just be too expensive otherwise.)

    Anyway, when i was a nipper you used to be you'd pay a tenner for that ($17). that was back in the nineties. You'd pay £17 ($28) for that these days.

    I can't imagine paying 30p for a joint...that would be insane lol...it would make me so happy.

  71. bringmeredwine

    I was born in '62
    Without a clue.
    I always assumed that you were older (and wiser) than moi.

  72. bringmeredwine

    My hat goes off to you, Sir:)
    I've had some very strange looks when I've gone to our little pharmacy to ask for syringes.
    We use them to inject air into our minnows,while
    fishing!

  73. a_no_n

    no i'm just scraping short of thirty...I just moan like i'm 80.

  74. bionara

    This is a brilliant documentary: the best parts have to be the interviews with the creator of these drugs as he portrays what seems to be a genuine passion and interest in his conquests.

    Not sure why the doc felt the need to try and represent two distinct halves of users though: the dodgy northerners that descend into heroin use and the somewhat upperclass and drab uni student that has developed his own ritual for the safe use of untested chemicals - the blood pressure thing made me chuckle!

    It's shocking that these loopholes exist and allow for the large scale productions and distribution from within the EU as seen in Holland. It's no surprise that it all comes from China: we love the pound shop and it seems like a matter of time before we can get our drugs from there too!

    Anyway, very saddening to watch on all aspects. The doc sums it up with the section on if pleasure doesn't have to be earned and worked for, we get hooked on it and can't function normally without it. Keep pressing that button, rats!

  75. ~Oliver B Koslik Esq

    "Some folk'll never eat a toe, and then again some folk'll... like Cleatus the slack jawed yokel!"

  76. ljeneschis

    Easier and SAFER!!!! Good grief people.

  77. jaberwokky

    I've had quite a lot of fun over the last few days educating myself on the finer points of auto-flowering, plant strains, air filtering, lighting, nutrients and the art of closet growing. I feel enlightened :)

  78. Wald0

    No they aren't, they're shutting down personal grows and forcing patients to buy from commercial growers at highly increased prices. I've already received a dated notice, and most of my patients won't be able to afford to buy their medication from commercial operations, due to it not being covered under medical.

  79. Wald0

    Just so you know, it's much harder to measure smoked dosage than intravenous. Also, smoking and IV are very comparable when it comes to onset times, length and bioavailability rates. You should really double check the sources you've been doing your "research" on. I'm a chemist, with over fifteens years in my field, and I belong to ISPE; So I recommend that, instead of just ignoring me, you check your facts before you hurt yourself.

  80. Jordan

    Thanks for the reply. Like I said, I'm not smoking anymore these days, so thanks for your concern.

    I don't really measure dosage with synthetic cannabis. My process usually consisted of ordering 20 grams of herbal incense and packing a bowl, and I used the same bowl every time. Of course I knew that some batches would be stronger than others. That's why I always started off smoking small hits.

    So, I guess you could say that addicts who smoke this stuff don't usually consider dosages in terms of the actual amount of chemical, since each batch varies. In that sense, you are correct about measuring out dosages. Addicts who smoke synthetic cannabis do consider how fast or intense the high could come to them. I was nervous about bloodstream injection because of what I've heard about heroin. When heroin is injected directly into the bloodstream, the effects are usually more intense and instantaneous. Smoking heroin as opposed to slamming it have different results. I've heard that multiple times, and I figured the same would be the case with any drug that can be injected or inhaled via smoke to produce a high. So it wasn't thorough lab-oriented research, just feedback from heroin users and government agencies.

    Additionally, there often is chemical-laden residue at the bottom of the bowl from smoking synthetic cannabis, where as nearly all (probably 100%) of the soluble chemical will go into your system when injected. When smoking a bowl, you can take a tiny hit and then take a break for an hour, or you can smoke the entire bowl in a minute if you are willing.

    Thanks again for your comment. Can you see now why I viewed smoking and injecting as two different scenes?

  81. Jordan

    And obviously, I didn't mean I smoked the entire 20 grams in one sitting. I just ordered that large batch and smoked a bowl whenever I felt like it. And I did smoke a lot. It was more than once a day whenever I had the substance, if I could help it.

  82. oQ

    No they aren't, see the link, it will have to be debated in court again, in the meanwhile things are back to normal.
    Search Pot Growing Canada...see the newer link provided.

  83. oQ

    i feel sorry for YOUR patients

  84. Achems_Razor

    I am not sure that this is the 'real' WaldO.

  85. a_no_n

    if you research Low stress training, space will never be an issue, especially with autoflowers, you just have to mind out because they like a slightly more acidic soil than other strains.

  86. over the edge

    i suspect not. unless he moved to another country or is spoofing his ip (doesn't seem his style)

  87. Wald0

    Argue all you want, if you choose to believe something you've read on the news over someone directly involved, it's your loss. I'd prefer it if you don't spread your mistaken beliefs, as there are people out there that are actually affected by this issue, and your misinformation does nothing to help.

  88. oQ

    how can someone take someone's else identity on TDF? They would have to know the details of his sign in, wouldn't they?

  89. Pysmythe

    I looked through a little of his profile last night, thinking it might be "our Wald0". From what I read, I really don't see how it could be, not to even mention the ip and country.

  90. over the edge

    if you look at the top commenters the original waldo does not have the "w" capitalized so disqus sees it as a different person. i do not think this poster is impersonating anyone he/she just took an available name in my opinion

  91. oQ

    ok thank you, i will let the case rest. I'm not interested in talking to someone who is ill informed anyways.

  92. Pysmythe

    Not to mention rude and arrogant...

  93. free mary jane

    a judge has allowed all people to keep growing until a trial at which date this bullshit corporate system will either be changed to not affect sick people rights or completely abolished!

  94. jaberwokky

    Thanks yet again a_no_n, whether I ever get the chance to use this new knowledge I'm not sure but it's great stuff to be learning about. Maybe I can help out around the garden when civilization starts crashing down ;)

  95. Karla Carey

    Makes sense it's Jewish made.

  96. EliteStoner

    You're kidding right? smoking is one of the fastest methods of getting high.

  97. EliteStoner

    AARRRGG! the last 20sec. of audio cut out. doh!

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