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Oh My God

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Ratings: 7.80/10 from 5 users.

Storyline

Oh My GodOh My God asks people from all walks of life, from celebrities, to the religious, to atheists and the common Man - the question - What is God?

Peter Rodger did an excellent job on this movie. It was enlightening to see how all the different believers of various religions interpreted just what is the Almighty God.

From start to finish Rodger explores the world's religions and gives each believer a chance to explain what is God to them.

He is fair to all and rather than press each figure with condescending questions, Rodger lets each person make their case and all did quite well, albeit one...

Some may say there was no solid direction by the film maker and that a perfect conclusion could not be drawn from the film.

Don't expect to get a definitive answer to the ever-so-pestering question of what is God? Rather, keep an open-mind and hopefully you'll better understand why God may or may not exist and how it may not even matter!

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305 Comments / User Reviews

  1. Pauleto

    Such a variety of beliefs!.. No wonder that so many people disagree about the nature of God and some of them even deny It. I'm a believer because my belief provides comfort to me. :)

  2. BeepBeepImaJeep

    coming up next, "What is Santa Claus?"

  3. BJ

    Was it a good doc? Interesting, well made etc...?

  4. Insomniac

    Vlatko you are my new God. I shall worship ye in this here temple of your creation and ostracise all who do not share my belief.

  5. jj

    All this God stuff made me wanna watch porn instead for a spiritual enlightenment.

  6. mrr

    wonder if the priest at around 18:53 or so realizes the irony of his hypothetical question and answer: people ask why doesn't the church sell st.peters and all that is in it to help the poor? answer, because we as catholics see that it all is beautiful even things we make with our own hands and is a reflection of god. wouldn't that reflection, by virtue of the virtues espoused by this religion, require it to be used in a manner espousing, befitting and exemplifying those same virtues? excellent upload as always:) have found some interesting things in looking up some of those interviewed, and in that process have found it leads back to the question of the filmmaker: what is god? (ie-tolerance, forgiveness, redemption) thanks as always for the brainfood!

  7. carlos1234

    To me it seemed that everyone had an answer but at the same time they didnt really know what they were sayin....What i mean is they knew the words they were saying but they didnt really know.... you know what i mean????? :)

  8. Cool E Beans

    At least the question was correct even if none of the answers were. "What is GOD?" Imagine that you wanted to create 'Dolly' the cloned sheep. What would you need first? A proposal for the creation of the sheep IE an outline for what you want to do. Then comes the money, the expertise etc. Well, GOD is the proposal for the creation of 'Human' and we are the result of that proposal. Think about what was said "GOD is the word, the word is GOD."

    Once the proposal was put into motion, then a planet was needed and this one was picked. Realize that dinosaurs lived for millions of years (potentially) and then quickly died. Science cannot agree on how they lived only that they did.

    The reality is that they lived on Antarctica with the other land masses adjoining it while that whole continent faced the Sun with the North Pole facing away from the Sun thereby having complete separation of night and day. The heated waters from the 'day side' would keep the cold waters of the 'night side' from freezing and though not noted in any religious writings a band of thunderstorms surrounded the Earth at the present Equator from the beginning of the planets formation until it was upset by those following the tenets of the proposal.

    "And we came upon the face of the deep. And it was void and without form. And darkness was upon the still waters." GEN CH 1 V 2 of a pre 1612 bible. The dinosaurs were not selected for extinction - they were killed for the purpose of allowing us to be able to colonize this planet. We did not even exist at that time but were genetically created from a pre-existing species of fairly high intelligence - the ape. No missing link will be found just as no link between normal tomatoes and genetically altered tomatoes exists.

    And we are also the final attempt to create 'US' as we do have evidence of failures of the creation process. Homo-erectus, Cro-mag non etc.

    Want proof? Find a way to breech the six miles of ice at the South Pole and you will find the frozen remains of many species of dinosaur probably in pristine condition similar to the Woolly Mammoth found in Russia some years back.

    A bigger question might be how do I know this? Simply, I am a puzzler. If a presented explanation doesn't fit 'all' known fact, then either the facts are wrong or the explanation is. I have no trouble realizing that sometimes both are wrong.

    Think about this. Two objects of different weights fall at the same speed at one G in a vacuum IE 32 feet per second per second. This means during the first second each object falls 32 feet, in the next second they fall 64 feet and in the third second they fall an additional 128 feet. Now, we take a hypothetical first object (our control object) of one pound English and a second of ten pounds. They would seem to fall at the same speed. Now take a second object of 100 lbs. Then 1000 lbs. Then 10,000 lbs. Then 100,000 lbs. Eventually there will be a difference noted in the rate of fall for the heavier object especially as that second object approaches the weight of the planet itself. The heavier object MUST fall faster as its own gravity is added to the Earth's gravity providing 1.1 G or more. If this is true, then while the one pound object may fall at a rate of 32ft/s/s, the 10 pound object is falling at a rate of 32+10^1,000,000,000/ft/s/s which is imperceptible at the smaller scale of only a 10% difference in relation to the mass of the Earth.

    Cool.

  9. james

    "All this God stuff.." That crass little comment was actualy
    rather revealing.After many centuries,we are still no closer
    to,or further from answering the questions about The Almighty.Not the most provocative documentary;it likes to
    explore God his many cultural ideological permutations,and the question of existance in a rather broad ecumenical fashion..No big revelations from this one,apart from wondering why we get so worked up over it in the first place

  10. james

    beans appears to have strayed imperceptably away from the
    subject,however informative the non sequitur elucidations may
    have been.So... about this God thing,..any thoughts?

  11. Insomniac

    God is consciousness. God is the knowledge of being part of something bigger then ourselves without the means to communicate it properly. God is how we define good and evil, without realising that good and evil only exist if we define them.

    Hows that?

  12. Reality

    God ... is a delusion to give meaning to life.

    That is it.

  13. Atrophy

    God is an idea. Not a good one, not a bad one.
    On the good side it gives people hope, it gives people direction, it imparts a moral code, a sense of positive ideals.
    On the bad side, conflict, isolation, manipulation, destruction.

  14. ez2b12

    @ James

    sure I have an opinion on what god is. But over the last few months I have learned to keep it to myself. I have found that those who believe will do so no matter what you say or prove to them. In my opinion it is because they need god to exist, that's why they got into religion in the first place. They needed to believe in something bigger than the natural laws that govern our fates. Some thing that would be unchangeable and beyond the pain and strife we know. Something that would reward them for thier good deeds and punish those they deem unjust. Without this construct they feel life has no meaning, that thier is no reason to do good, and that uncertainty might take them tommorrow. Unfortunately they are right about uncertainty, this is just the way of life. One entity is just not that important to the whole and may be lost in a very trivial manner, with no warning, never to return. This is very difficult for us to deal with, both becuse we may have loved this entity and because we see our own mortality in this event. I have no answers of great sugnificance here, or ways to avoid this senario- just learn to live with it for what it is. As for needing life to have a reason, I think Mr. Carl Sagan had a great answer for that- "We are life's attempt to know itself." Learn as much as you can and make assertions from time to time. Others will then review your assertions and viola- we have a meaningful reason to exist "science". As far as justice, know that it is a human construct-not a natural part of existance. Thier is no justice in nature just as thier are no crimes. Everything is just as important and just as inconsequential as everything else- no need to seperate or discriminate. The laws of physics are the only natural laws that matter. If one of these is broken or changed we are in seriouse trouble. Any thing else is trivial having no effect at all after a few brief moments- including death.
    In the end I do not care wether everyone believes in god or not. I do care when they create these organized religions that gain power and persuasion over the law, politics, and society. These institutions promote violence, segregation, and contrived ignorance. They start wars, devide whole continents, and are responcible for more deaths than all the secular wars added up. If you want to believe in a god, I don't get it, but go for it. If you want to be part of the death machine called organized religion- shame on you.

  15. ez2b12

    Before I start getting a bunch of ill comments let me say something. When i say that these people "need" to believe I mean no disrespect. It does not follow that these people are some how less intelligent. I have no idea why one phsychy needs this and another does not.

  16. Insomniac

    @ez2b12's last post/disclaimer:

    Intelligence = The capacity to acquire and apply knowledge/The faculty of thought and reason.

    Faith in a static belief system is pretty much the exact opposite of intelligence's definition.

    I do believe "these peoples are somehow less intelligent".

    Send me all the ill comments you want. I got the real bible on my side: a dictionnary.

  17. Dannyboy

    God is within all of us we need to understand that the earth itself is alive and we are apart of it as much as the trees and plants. Through out our life time, we have forgotten about the true existence of humans, god is every where, you don't have to be in a church to feel god, god is the creator and next to god is the earth itself, that the next thing we need to respect, hell doesnt exist, it was only made up to control people even though i am orthodox it is true enlightenment is respect of the earth and our soul will live on after death its just the way of a earthly cycle. We need to love ourselves and each other god is within all of us

  18. MIKE

    Its funny watching all of you say god is this or god is that or gods not there and so on.... STOP pretending like you know the answer because you do not. It is absolutely impossible for any person to know this answer your just speculating and by acting like you know the answer you come off arrogant and unintelligent!

  19. ez2b12

    Do you have anything to back up your claims? Or are you making an assertion based from perosnal experience? I would assume the latter. A personal interpretation of a personal experience means nothing to anyone but the person that has it. Besides you speak of a end and give no means with which to achieve it. Just saying "lets all get along" doesn't help.A bunch of tree hugging profits tried this during the sixties and seventies- it didn't work then and it will not work now. It is a bunch of pretty poetry but nothing real that can be applied in every day life.How do we get to a place where we can all love each other and respect the earth? A good first step in my opinion is to get rid of god all together. To start believing in our own ability to understand. To get rid of all the things that devide us- religion, wealth, racism, etc., etc.To realize that we collectively create reality on a second by second basis. This can all change right now, its just a choice.

  20. james

    Oh boy!This might get good!Hope it won't deteriorate into the
    name calling,ideology-bashing slugfest (as it often does between rampaging intellectuals)too soon.It's a fascinating experience;searching for Truth..never know where it takes u!
    I do not care much for religion but I'm aware of its power to inspire,placate,empower,as well as delude the masses.
    As for me..I'm a Jedi.May the Force be with you all ;)

  21. ez2b12

    I certainly do not feel I have the answers Mike. I don't think anyone does, including you. Your assertion that we all look unintelligent or arrogant simply for discussing belief is well, unintelligent and arrogant. With acception of Insomniac and yourself no one has been arguemenative or accusatory. Don't participate if you do not like the forum. I am a theologian and have based my whole acedemic career on discussing different belief systems and why we are drawn to them. Many others have done the same as it is a ligitimate and necessary field. Do you presume to tell us all that we are arrogant and unintelligent? This is the "hurt feelings" card that many religiouse people try and play. Saying that this is such a sacred subject that it should not be even discussed. Well sorry but organized religion has too much influence to be above discussion. It influences politics, society, and economics. We have to discuss the one ton elephant sitting in the corner. Wether it offends people or not.

  22. james

    I think that Insomniac is in agile Cartesian fighting form
    on this subject! I admire the succinct verbage.And oh,yes!
    ...."Dictionnary"...hee hee..I just love typos like that

  23. Insomniac

    @James: Dictionnaire. In french(my native language) it takes 2 N. I am terribly sorry for making petty vocabulary mistakes in my second language which I learned to be able to communicate with people who speak just the one language and quite sadly more often then not still manage to butcher it. It will not happen again.

  24. JCWOLF

    When you remove the fluffy soundtrack, and happy ignorant faces, it's a obvious slant against Mohamed-ians (Jews 3.0). With weak accusations being drummed up against that one flavor of blissful ignorance over the others.

    Jewish and Jewish 2.0 (christers), have in the past done killings over the same reasoning, as the Jewish 3.0'rs. With accounts still coming up about murders in the name of their chosen delusion.
    --------------------------------------
    So tired of thinking over this.

    Would've preferred my 'only' trip through this world to have been one lacking this watershed of spirituality/religious belief systems.

    In no way do these road bumps help.

    I Known a fellow for some years now, with self proclaimed knowledge of the existence of 'thee god'.

    These other believers, with nothing other than emotional appeals, to threats, and any other path that they are able to rationalize into a way to press their authority/infallibility; is no help for those who are suffering from minor to severe confusions in their neuron networking.

    With extreme hindrance in finding ways of bringing help to those with a distraught mind. The likely hood is before the need of medical attention can be noticed, a 'faith-er' will have been causing cavities in their thoughts with placebos of feel good (or the feel bad, then introduce the fix) beliefs.

  25. Rajaroux

    I was expecting something banal from this documentary, but was pleasantly supprised by the beauty in the diversity. Although I'm not quite sure how I came away with such optimism after being shown our world of nutters. My two pence; 'What is God?' is not a question to answer. Any conclusion you come to for yourself will set you against the ever changing reality.

  26. Epicurus

    god for most people is the answer to any question which they dont have a real answer for...

  27. Alex

    If people ask What is God? that means they don't know. If they don't know, why listen to them?

  28. BJ

    Haha I love when someone like MIKE has a go at people for simply discussing issues.

    MIKE, what would you look everyone to do? Considering you seem so educated.

  29. Carl Hendershot

    Worth watching. To each is own.

  30. Insomniac

    @BJ - MIKE's apparent point = (correct me if im wrong) that the search for this answer is what got us in this mess in the first place. All these different interpretation arent beautiful or inspiring. They are dangerous and because of the way they divide. Stop trying to name or describe God, no human language contains the proper adjectives. We will all be much better off.

    Spirituality is just fine, for it is not defined. Religion is sacreligious and blasphematory by definition.

  31. TJ

    Let me first say that I do believe in God. Some would call my belief in God "agneticity," but I see it as firm logic: The fact that all the atoms in my body managed to somehow assemble themselves into a highly organized living breathing colony of cells may just be a MASSIVE COINCIDENCE, but the fact that this molecular machine hosts an inner subjective experience (my self) that is invisible, immaterial, unmeasurable and capable of conceiving of whole new worlds and transcending time and space is nothing short of a god damn MIRACLE.
    That being said, I understand perfectly well how a person can not believe in God. I've been there. But to me lack of faith, disbelief or nonbelief is unimaginative and pessimistic. I don't believe in God because I'm blind, stupid and desperate for hope, but because in my mind the patterns I see in the universe seem to point to an intelligent creator.

  32. TJ

    "agenticity"*

    Also I'd like to make a disclaimer: I don't pretend to be an authority--I don't think anyone really knows what they're talking about when God is the subject. It's a bit like asking an eye cell to describe "sight." This is just my personal experience.

  33. ez2b12

    @ TJ

    Maybe you would be pessimistic or unimaginative without faith, but thousands of us live a imaginative optomistic existance without any supernatural beliefs at all. Phsychies are different and need different things. But dont try to hide behind humbility when in reality you are making generalized assertions and negative assumptions. Your small disclaimer about not being an "authority" does you no good after a statement like that. You can not condemn the quality of others lifes and then say how optomistic and imaginative you are- give me a break. If you mean it say it and stop apologizing. You are obviousely predjudiced toward people of no faith- wether you know it or not.

  34. BJ

    @TJ

    How the hell is having belief in a god = to having more imagination than someone of no faith? That rings completely false to me. To say "god did it" to everything on Earth would need the least imagination of all. Just follow the heard and believe everything was a heavenly creation... that's easy.

  35. Insomniac

    @TJ: "I don’t believe in God because I’m blind, stupid and desperate for hope, but because in my mind the patterns I see in the universe seem to point to an intelligent creator."

    I dare you to find a single person in all of history who came to that same conclusion without being told of it by someone else first.

  36. Jesus is God

    Research has stated that a child (every child) being brought up would automatically understand that there is a creator without being told or taught by someone else. Some may say that the creator has place within each one of us this knowledge while others would say that this is due to our nature of survival of the fittest. Whichever your hope lies make sure the data do support it. Have an open minded approach and let the data lead you where ever it may be.

    God Bless you all.

  37. ez2b12

    @ Jesus is God

    We have trusted the data, why do you think we do not believe. Over and over science has diproved the claims of organized religion. I have nothing against a theist but if you support organized religion you are blind. The earth is 6000 years old, the exodus story, noah and the flood- all disproved, to any one willing to see the fcats any way. And if you trust reason you can go ahead and throw out the virgin birth, the resurrection, pass over, etc., etc. This does not disprove the existance of a god or creator, but sure goes along way toward throwing out this crap we call religion now days. This by itself would be harmless but these people want to educate our children with lies and fairy tales, they influence the government in huge ways, they interfere with others basic human rights- esp. in the case of abortion. It's enough to turn me off to any god figure at all. If I am a lost soul it is the fault of the damn church, that's a fact. Not that I buy it but you know what I am trying to say. Maybe if I had not grown up in the bible belt I wouldn't be so against it all, I don't know.

  38. Rajaroux

    @Jesus is God ... A child (every child) is an expression of innocence, not of understanding, knowledge or evolution. But the point/research is important because it shows us that without knowledge or experience, therefore understanding, the concept of a creator God answers all problematic questions of the mind. Even with vast knowledge and understanding of the sciences (the parts of Nature), the interplay of those parts (the song of Nature) is beyond defining and categorising. You only have to watch ripples in a pond to experience scientifically defined forces becoming chaos and beauty. If this should imply a person called God is pushing all the bits around, it's only our childlike mind full of too many questions that are trying to be answered.
    Sure, God can be the word to describe everythingness or Nature, and there does seem to be a harmony and even a direction or trajectory (evolution) to Nature, but the judgemental intelligent God, the character that lays down commandments, controls pleasure, soothes pain and answers prayers, is but a shadow of Mum and Dad, a shadow of the Imam, Rabbi, Swami or Priest.

    'God Bless you' means 'By what seems like divine grace and favour, may all the bits of data come together just at the right time and in the right way for you to stop trying to answer the question 'what is God?' and grow up, evolve, WAKE UP! to the ever-changing reality around you so that you may fully participate IN Nature, IN the moment and with awareness so you, and we, can enjoy the song your molecules are singing.'

  39. ez2b12

    @ Rajaroux

    You said "‘God Bless you’ means ‘By what seems like divine grace and favour, may all the bits of data come together just at the right time ..."

    That is the most beautiful expression I have ever heard, thank you for putting into words what I was thinking. I wish all us athiest, and even theist's that do not believe in the current destructive dogma (any organized religion), could express ourselves as elequently as this. Maybe we wouldn't come off so harsh and turn everyone off. Good job.

  40. TJ

    @ez2b12, BJ, and Insomniac
    I condemn nothing and I'm not sure what you think I'm apologizing about. Speaking my mind? I never said that atheists or agnostics are unimaginative or pessimistic, I just think it's a limiting perspetive when looking at the big picture (which is not to say that theism isn't limiting. There's nothing wrong with a little skepticism. Apologetic? Sure, but I didn't expect such vehement responses. Please settle down, people). And sure, I am making generalizations. I'm not unbiased, I was raised as a christian. But I've rejected organized religion because it's too ritualized and dogmatic. Like I said, this is my personal experience: I believe in God because that's what my experience has led me to believe so far.

  41. Insomniac

    @TJ "(...)that’s what my experience has led me to believe so far."

    But why must you believe? Isn't doubt ultimately much more enlightening? Isn't the truth more satisfying when you can prove it?

    Note: I am neither a theist nor an atheist. Belief AND non-belief in a higher power are both beliefs since neither can prove anything. There is such a thing as a grey area on this issue. It is not my place to say God doesn't exist, just like it is no ones place to say it does.

  42. TJ

    Insomniac,
    That's a very healthy stance you have and I agree that no one can prove anything about God. Trying to say that God is definitively this or I know God to be so-and-so because so-and-so is a bit naive.
    I've flipped back and forth on this issue and to be perfectly honest my answer depends on when you ask me and what kind of mood I'm in. :) I tend to say I'm an agnostic but I also consider myself very spiritual. Let's just say that I can't help but believe. Objective truth is great but we as humans really can't wrap our minds around the ultimate truth yet and so in light of our ignorance I think a little faith in something bigger than ourselves is entirely reasonable.

  43. TJ

    Let me try again to answer that question: "Why must you believe?"
    I suppose the cookie-cutter response would be something like: I believe because I feel it in my heart, deep down. I believe because I see it everywhere I look, because I can't not see it. "Must" I believe? Well, no, but I don't think that's really the point. The point is I feel COMPELLED to believe with every fiber of my being and I find it hard to ignore my strong intuitions. It doesn't quite do to just point to a piece of evidence and say I believe because of that or This is why I must believe. All I can do is look at all of it as one collective example of the universe itself and say Wow, there's really something going on here. That's why I believe.

  44. Insomniac

    I guess that is where we differ. Where some people see designed complexity I see nothing but randomness and probabilities. Your organism isn't that complicated if you consider the time it took to get to it. The mere fact that we still have body hair and a fifth small toe proves a lack of design to me. Same goes for the universe: you may see grace and beauty in the whole thing, but in the end it is an unstable and violent place. Life couldnt exist in 99.9999999999999999999999999999999......% of it.

  45. i am become death

    all religion is disgusting filth, look up islam 'thighing'. a religious mentality says what god tells me is good because an ancient book dictates it- a non religious person debates and questions and looks for reason behind moral virtue. here there is progress and humanity, in the former there is only decay and moral stagnation.

  46. Insomniac

    @i am become death: Religion is not ALL bad. If religion never existed, it means we would've never bothered to ask ourselves questions that go beyond the here and now. We'd still live in caves. Religion in a way is like an economic system; great on paper and potentially benefitial in a small population thats easy to regulate...which is obviously not what we have now. In the end the problem is the messenger's tendency towards interpretation of an unclear, diluted message. Especially when that messenger has power. Power and faith just don't mix.

    Ultimately what you really don't like is willfull ignorance and manipulation of the message for economic and political purposes. I dont think anyone disagrees on that point. For anyone who does...the internet is a sin! Run back to church quick! Shoo! We're all devils and sinners here!..

  47. Insomniac

    But anyway...Clapton is God. Anyone who disagrees will spend eternity in elevator ambiance music hell. Amen.

  48. Arthur K

    Thanks For the Vid , really a broad look at the subject .. Good job!!!

  49. TJ

    @Insomniac Re: where we differ

    That's certainly a good way to put it, "where you see that I see this." Your examples are all good, but the question of God lies in our interpretation of them. Yes, an organism can actually be seen as a simple machine of input/output or whatever principles or categorical lens you wish to use, but God to me is the ultimate paradox: both vastly complex and surprisingly simple all at once. I see imperfections like vestigial hair and useless toes as the markers of a world in a constant state of change and a reminder that nothing is perfect by virtue of the passage of time, and so the ugliness of body hair to me is also a beautiful thing. I see instability and violence as the flip side of the God coin: without chaos there wouldn't be order, and vice versa. Human beings as we know them wouldn't exist without the violent deaths of countless ancient stars. That, to me, is the real sacrifice.

  50. TJ

    plus Clapton is God

  51. Jesus is God

    Before we go further into any discussion, please do be careful and make sure:
    -You have the BASIC understanding.
    -Key word use are clearly define and understood (eg. Science, religion etc)
    -Do extensive investigation and research for both side of the argument.
    -Have a mutual unbias view and follow the data wherever it may lead you (remember to look at both side of the evidence).
    -Don't assume, don't be influence by others, trust the data
    -Don't through anything without facts to back it up, don't bluff as it were facts
    -Don't make any accusation without evidence.
    -Conclude your findings

    I'm sure this is not perfect, but i hope you'd understand the point i'm making. It avoid many misunderstanding and prevent any argument because of it. By the way, on the side note we are not arguing about who have the right facts. We both have the same facts (Same world, same map, same universe, same evidence). It is how we interpret these facts that draws us to different or opposite conclusions. I would challenge you to welcome your reasoning skills, investigation skills, throw away those opinions (even yours). Start all over again with a fresh, uncorrupted, unbias and an ardent desire to find the Truth.

    May the TRUTH set you Free.

  52. Fredrik Edén

    Try to build a chair with a gun you super, super intelligent gun-lady...

  53. Chris

    @ Jesus is God

    You are someone I could sit down with a cup of coffee. I've enjoyed your posts, especially the last one. There is an atheist fringe on this site that can be a bit vitriolic. Therefore, I reward your even-handedness with some of my favorite Friedrich Nietzsche quotes:

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    "There are no facts, only interpretations."

    "We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the way in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us."

    "Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies."

    "All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth."

    Cheers

  54. DelinquentFaith

    When I was told Santa didn't exist I was a devasted 4 year old but I got over it. When I found out Disney wasn't a real "magic kingdom" I was upset but I grew out of it.

    There are so many diferent versions of God that it's highly unlikely you believe in the right one.

    God most likely does not exist. Why can't we all just grow up?

  55. Insomniac

    @DelinquentFaith: "God most likely does not exist." Depends how you personnaly define God. Statistically, something we might identify as God (meaning a higher power then us, not necessarely THE HIGHEST power) has to exist somewhere. The question would be does it or did it ever have anything to do with us. I believe the answer is no, but that is just speculation. If you believe there is life out there, saying some of it might be perceived as Godlike by more primitive civilisations is not so farfetched.

    Don't state the inexistence of God (whatever it maybe) as a fact when technically you can't even prove santa doesn't exist. I'd be on your side if you said something more along the lines of "Jesus wasn't God's son" or "The so-called prophets were most likely schyzophreniacs". I love a good religion bashing in the morning. But you will never win the argument if you go against spirituality itself, a concept you most likely can't fully understand. I can't anyway. Never experienced it. Won't pretend I do.

    Make the distinction. Spirituality doesnt necessarely mean magic and miracles and all that nonsense.

  56. Jesus is God

    @ Chris

    Thanks Chris for your quotes. Would love to sit down and have a chat bro :)
    Well i said what i needed to say, it is up to you to choose.
    I will leave with some quotes of the Bible, let us muse together.

    Proverbs 1:1-7 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, King of Israel; To know wisdom and instruction; to perceive the words of understanding; To receive the instruction of wisdom, justice, and judgment, and equity. To give subtilty to the simple, to the young man knowledge and discretion. A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings (riddles). The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

    Psalm 111:1-3 Praise ye the LORD. I will praise the LORD with my whole heart, in the assembly of the upright, and in the congregation. The works of the LORD are great, sought out of all them that have pleasure therein. His work is honourable and glorious: and his righteousness endureth for ever.

  57. Epicurus

    here chris and jesus

    lets see how consistently moral this imaginary god thing you hold so dear really is.

    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

    Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city. (Zechariah 14:1-2 NAB)

    God himself says he will be responsible for those acts...hmmm

    If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

    Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him. (James 5:14-15 ASV)

    (This passage is evil because people who believe it may not get proper medical treatment for their sick children.)

    "Go up, my warriors, against the land of Merathaim and against the people of Pekod. Yes, march against Babylon, the land of rebels, a land that I will judge! Pursue, kill, and completely destroy them, as I have commanded you," says the LORD. "Let the battle cry be heard in the land, a shout of great destruction". (Jeremiah 50:21-22 NLT)

    how can you guys believe this silly nonsense....????

  58. Insomniac

    @Epicurus: Quoting the bible in this manner only gives credit to anyone who says God actually said those words. Even worse, it gives them credit when they also quote the bible to argue against you.

    The people at whom your message is aimed allready refuse it when it is brought to them politely. In the end confrontation only serves to fuel your own anger. But hey, if thats the point, have your fun. Blow some steam. It's healthy.

  59. Epicurean_Logic

    @all

    Epicurus is 100% right, you guys quote all the soppy, lovey dovey words that you are taught in sunday school and yet i would put my last dollar on the fact that you havn't even read the old testament is all it's destructive non-glory.

    try reading the book before you base your life on it!

  60. Achems Razor

    I do believe that @ Chris: knows all the horrendous things in the bibles. Probably more than all of us put together.

    He probably does not go along with a lot of things that religions are trying to portray. But still he is a true blue creationist, at least this is what I gather over all of our bantering.
    Am I right, Chris?

    @ Epicurus and @ Epic_logic, you guys would be good with the CA. give him a go with that.

  61. Epicurus

    @insomniac, i wasnt using the bible to argue any points other than to remind them that their god isnt supposed to be the person they pretend he is.

  62. Epicurus

    i already did give him a go with that and im pretty sure i took the victory on that. he can try again if he really wants.

    his whole premise is false and based on assumptions which are not factual.

  63. Achems Razor

    Okay, if @ Chris: does not dispute that, then we will class you as the victor.

  64. Patje

    First of all, I would like to comment about the Documentary itself. Unfortunately almost no one did? Well I must admit I was carried away by the film. It made me think in different directions of beliefs, I also asked myself, how would I go if I was to create this film. In general I conclude this creation as an interesting documentary, worthwhile to see.
    As for the question; who is God? it reminds me the the legend in which God was ones asked: "who is the through religion?"
    and God answered: I don't know, because I am not religious.

  65. Patje

    Patje (sorry, this is me again with some mistake corrections)
    First of all, I would like to comment about the Documentary itself. Unfortunately almost no one did? Well I must admit that I was carried away by the film. It made me think in different directions of beliefs, I also asked myself, how would I go about, if I had to create this film. to conclude I think this documentary has an interesting point of view. and it is worthwhile to see.
    As for the topic question in the film; "who is God?" it reminds me the the legend in which God was ones asked:
    “who is the truth religion?” and God answered: I don’t know, because I am not religious.

  66. ez2b12

    @ Epicurus

    No way Chris is letting you get away with that. If he sees it he'll be ready to go, good luck. He's a pretty sharp guy, I disagree with him but still. He is a formidable opponent for me and I debate almost everyday at the university level and have a degree in theism. I am not saying you can't do it, your good to. I have seen you get after it a few times. Use references to back up your data and you'll avoid some sticky situations. Know that Chris is very competative, from what i have gained. He proclaimed himself the "only man left standing" in our last debate. I had no idea we where really competing but he obviousely was. Good luck.

  67. Epicurus

    the premise of the argument that all things that exist have a starting point is an assumption that is unfounded and a TERRIBLE way to start your entire argument for a deity.

  68. eireannach666

    Incredible theories need incredible proof. Or it goes something like that.

  69. eireannach666

    Oh , I know. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

    Wait , yeah thats it.

  70. eireannach666

    Ez2b12

    Epi can hold his own. He as I rely on sure evidence and not luck.
    ( And I could say that the shoe could very well be on the other foot , so to speak.)

  71. Frank

    God. That was interesting.

  72. Kurrrt

    Creation didn't intend any religion, what a waist of time. The creator God of humanity as one -is in each one of us all- collectivly and consciously, need look no further... Dark controlling forces aim the weak ones to search elsewhere, outside the human self. And there certainly is a large herd of them looking all over for various invisable fake Gods that they will never ever find. These outside Gods definately seperate them from truth and personal thought. Holding them in lower cultures, restricting these silly outside God followers from their next higher culture. A shame indeed...

  73. Kurrrt

    "Seek not abroad, turn back into thyself, for the inner man dwells the truth."
    Saint Augustine

  74. Gus Hales

    "What is God", Simple question ,simple answer. God is a creation of our minds, because, as a species we have not grown up enough to face the fact that we are going to die one day and that we are responsible for our actions. Life can be painful and full of suffering, therefore invent in your mind everlasting life and give your pain vicariously to a higher being. Until we drop this nonsense, man will never find peace!

  75. Kurrrt

    (Gus-Very well spoken words of what I believe to be truth sir). Next new paradigm await those who freely think. Humanity evolving through laws of the Universe, can be accomplished with intention and attention to choose what choices that can be made to bring as many peaceful moments to each day as possible.

  76. Gus Hales

    Yes Kurrrt, I agree in making the conscious effort to bring as many peaceful moments to each day as possible, then we have found a meaning to life in an otherwise meaningless existance. We live on an unstable planet, where the natural conditions of the weather, bacteria, viruses, disease, aging and the environment are continually trying to kill us. "There is no divine plan," each and everyone of us can cultivate a sense of harmlessness, thus living in peace with ourselves and everything around us. We do not need to create a God or a saviour to do that, just the awareness.

  77. Scott Henthorn

    If we are to have a truly socially meaningful conversation about how to accommodate a multiple of beliefs including both atheistic and theistic beliefs we will need to be able to have more than a merely surface or parodied discussion of theistic faith convictions. Cheep quips about the mental deficiency of theists are no more helpful than the, at times, paranoid defense some theists think they are making on God’s behalf.

    In a civil society we need to find ways to tolerate differing beliefs. To say belief in God is dangerous and a necessary barrier to human freedom and that we will never have a truly liberated society until we have eradicated or banned theistic belief sounds a bit. . . well fundamentalist. I am a non-fundamentalist theist. Presentations like this documentary have some limited value but they fail to offer anything very deeply meaningful to our contemporary problems because they do or cannot enter into the real heart of theistic experience. To me there needs to be two levels of discussion if we are to maintain a society that is tolerant of a variety of beliefs. One, we need to find a common narrative and discussion in the public realm. And, two we can, if we want, engage others in discussion of our various convictions. We need to remember our history, and that we left Europe and other regions to escape official state coercion in matters of belief.

    This is a good film in general and it did follow its intention well.

  78. Gus Hales

    Scott Henthorn, "In a civil society we need to find ways to tolerate differing beliefs". No we don't, differing beliefs are already tolerated. Britain is well served by Hindu and Buddhist temples, Mosques, churches, synogogues, New age centres and pagan festivals. These shouls all be private concerns. However, the NHS spends 65million pounds a year of our money on faith chaplains, as well as prisons, tax payer funded restoration of churches, faith schools and many other projects as well as the monarchy being head of the church and defender of the faith. Some of us are sick and tired of our money being spent on this bromidic idea of a celestial dictator. By all means believe what you want but keep it to yourself, and pay for it yourself.

  79. Scott Henthorn

    Gus,

    Seems you are writing about two things. Civil society and the remnants of a theocracy you live under in the UK. My point about civil society is that we are increasingly moving away from tolerance. We can, if we want, continue to entrench ourselves in the public arena. If we prefer peace and liberty for all above violence and coercion we will continually need to put the priority of civil discourse forward in new ways.

    Perhaps the UK will need its own revolution, peaceful or otherwise, to finally rid itself of its ancient theocracy.

    On the issue of chaplains I think this is a perfect example of meeting the needs of a pluralistic society, assuming these chaplains are increasingly representing different faith traditions. Assisting people at a time of death or crisis within their own belief traditions is the best good for their wellbeing. This should of course include whatever psychological support a secular humanist might want at these times.

  80. Gus Hales

    Hi Scott,
    We are not moving away from tolerance of religious freedom, anyone in Britain is free to choose and follow whatever religious or secular practice they want. However, people like me, the non-religious, are tired of the religious:- Flying planes into buildings, putting bombs on the underground, threatening to murder authors, murdering over cartoons, international terrorism, retaliatory wars, Irish and other states sectarian murder, right wing evangelical nutcases trying to teach nonsense in classrooms, child abusing priests, the covering up of child abusing priests, the threat of hell if I dont believe the myths, the persecution and murder of homosexuals, suicide bombers, the cost to the tax payer, lying to children, the mutilation of childrens genitals, Christians being offended, and universities teaching theology courses. This doesn't include the countless historical atrocities such as, crusades, inquisitions, pograms, torture, witch-hunts, murder of astronomers, jihads, ethnic cleansing and bigotry. No Scott, we will no longer be tolerant of these things. Feel free to practice what you want, but keep it to yourself and pay for it yourself.

  81. Scott Henthorn

    Gus,

    I am speaking largely of theists needing to learn tolerance. But I think there is a general increase of intolerance all round.

    I you are interested in continuing this conversation I do not mind, but I you find it fruitless I understand. Your list of problems with Theists and the atrocious actions of some through history certainly show that belief in God is no guarantee for good morals. You have to admit an unfair advantage here though in that Secular-Humanism has yet found itself in a position of power to prove whether it will prove itself morally superior. In a position of true political power and threatened by some outside group I imagine that S-Hists would resort to incarceration and execution or state violence of some kind the same as any other belief system has. The ad hoc and utilitarian nature of S-H morality will likely be able to accommodate this kind of crackdown. When Christians, on the other hand, engage in violent coercion they clearly breach Christian moral code.

    The bigger problem with your list of the moral failings of Theists, Christians mostly, is you fail to make an account of the good that has come into the world from Christian commitment. Dr. Martin Luther King, William Wilberforce and many other everyday folk’s helpful and positive participation in the world cannot fairly be separated from their Theistic convictions. Your position is denigrated by your straw man approach to your enemy. For, nearly every moral grievance you raise you will find theists, in fact Christian theists, who are equally offended and have spoken acted and been on the recieving end of these crimes. Theistic faith communities are in no way as monolithic as many would have it. We do not have the luxury of pointing to a profound moral superiority, but our history is not an unbroken flow of evil doing.

    I would agree that Faith communities should cover the costs of their own minisrty.

  82. Scott Henthorn

    Sorry My 'F' key has muck under it and doesn't work if I don't slam on it.

  83. Gus Hales

    Hi Scott,

    Can you give me one good act that could only have been performed by a religious person. I have given you many wicked acts that could only be performed by religious people.
    It takes good men to do good things and bad men to do bad things but it takes religion for good men do bad things.
    When was the last time you heard of anyone flying a plane into a building shouting "God is not great" or a torturer stretching some-one on the rack shouting to the victim "confess there is no God." Your point re Martin Luther King and William Wilberforce. Firstly, The American civil rights movement was not a religious movement but motivated to address inequality perpetrated by right wing Christians who followed the bible sanctioned teachings of slavery and inferior ctizenship. I find it an insult to his memory to suggest that he only saw inequality because he was religious. Likewise with William Wilberforce if he was following his bible then he would have approved of slavery, just like William Penn that well known Quaker who kept slaves himself. So when Wilberforce stopped following the bible regarding this matter and took the secular approach, he then was able to act on injustice. I rest my case.

  84. Scott Henthorn

    No I cannot give a good act that could only have been performed by a religious person. But I would not expect to. Personally I am happy when I see justice or kindness or any ‘good’ action when it is done by whomever. I am equally disheartened by injustice or cruelty whenever it is present.

    Fanatics or defenders of hegemonies of any kind may kill others in the name of what they feel is the ground of their convictions, or in the simple utility of maintaining power. Atheists of a pure sort, not tainted with communism say, have yet to be in the position to prove they would not persecute or harass dissenters.

    Both MLK Jr and Wilberforce understood they were acting on their Gospel commitments in their liberation work. To say otherwise is to ignore a very important historic motive for both men. MLK Jr. would have see injustice whether Christian or not, but it was through his religious convictions that he saw a way to correct it. That Christianity is more diverse than you expect is not proof that those who behave more to your liking are acting from ‘secular’ motives. The Bible is quite nuanced on its proscriptions for bond and hired servants in the OT Law. There is nothing there like the kind of race based trapping and selling of people that the Brits and Americans were involved in in the 18th – 19th century. The ancient Christians were not a political movement, and they were a very small group within a much larger and very dominant culture. Slavery is assumed to be a part of that culture. Being free is understood as a good if it is used for good. Insisting that converted Roman slaves assume their right to freedom would be to insist that they be killed or take up arms in rebellion and then be crushed. Early Christians were drawn from all classes both free and slave into a new community where a slave could be a leader as much as a nobleperson. This is the Christian response to slavery; to undermine it in its own community. I am certain this was not done perfectly but it is telling about our early ways. However, early Christian social limits, in my thinking, do not set a limit on how we might behave in our day, in the 1960s, or in the 19th century. All must look for valid approaches to the actual conditions on the ground at the time. Your implication that I must follow the Bible in some very narrow sense of it being a set of immovable normative pro- and pre-scriptions is very strange.

  85. Gus Hales

    Hi Scott,
    Wow hold on a minute, I have not suggested that you follow the bible in anyway. It is you (presumably) Christians that follow this vile book. And are forever telling us that it is the word of God and the source of all morality. But as per normal you cherry pick, conveniently leaving out the bits that point out the murderous, merciless, cruel, capricious, vindictive, genicidal, racist and psychopathic nature of the biblical God who split himself into three parts and then threatens eternal suffering to anyone who doesn't believe the story.

    "When a man strikes his male or female slave so hard with a rod that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If however the slave survives for a day or two he is not to be punished, for the slave is his property".
    (Exodus 21:20-21)

    "Slaves serve your master with deep respect and fear, serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ". (Ephesians 6:5)

    The bible is full of many, many more vile acts and I question the motives of anyone who refers to this ancient text as a source of morality. Shame on you for even suggesting that all of this is ok because I only believe the bits that support my world view. In addition if you do not follow the bible what is the authority for the Christian faith other than the fact you have made the whole thing up.

  86. Gus Hales

    Cont: Scott, further to my last post. I find myself once again having to explain to believers what Atheism is. You write about "Atheists of a pure sort".
    Atheism is the non belief in a God, in the same way that I and you are A-Santa Clausist, A-Unicornist, A-fairyist A-Leprechaunist. It is not a religion, a political or belief system. It has no doctrines or dogma, just the disbelief in a God.
    Many thanks.

  87. Kurrrt

    So many experts speak about what they have found was experenced hundreds of years ago, but today it's the dark ages in the minds of the unknowing. The dark forces on this planet know the human race better then human beings do. Their plan has been underway and has reached it's peak. Religon did what it was suppose to. and so did the money system. Both aimed to fail, as history keeps repeating this failing system, the dark controllers rein. Basicly-> No God + no money = no problems for human kind.

  88. Kurrrt

    History is always being taken away from humanity. Origionally our origins could have been traced off planet. But are erased from the minds of followers of this ugly plan the dark forces provided. Which include these very important subjects- Various religions and money, and now-
    The End

  89. Gus Hales

    Hi Scott
    Thanks for the link which explains Atheism well.
    Concerning beliefs, we are all Atheists regarding Zeus, Thor, Isis, Horus and any of the other countless Gods that man has created through not understanding how this all came about. Religion was our first and worst attempt at an answer, but evidence and reason has moved us past these primative beliefs from the infancy of our species. But ignorance still thrives resulting in an inability to let go, and many 'RELIGIOUS' people have a lot invested in keeping the fear going, religion is big business. For anyone who is prepared to reflect on the whole idea, the only reasoned decision is that it is complete nonsense.

    For example regarding the three monotheistic religions. Firstly, the God of the Jews is not the same God of the Christians, the Jews believe that God did not come to earth as his only begoten son, whilst Christians believe he did. Therefore they cannot be describing the same God, likewise the same with Allah. Therefore, by definition we have at least a multiple monotheistic God, even God himself said, thou shalt have no other God but me, indicating that even God believes there are other Gods. All this sound nonsense, you bet, that's why there are so many different factions all claiming that their particular brand is the one true faith. Time we all grew out of this nonsense.

  90. bobo

    I just wanted to correct the little indian children!! Prophet Mohammad PBUH, is not a god is the Last Messenger of The Almighty GOD ALLAH!!!
    Do u wanna know if God exist or not or Who is God? Just read the holy Quran! We believe in Jesus PBUH as a Messenger of God! the name of prophet Jesus PBUH is mentionned more time than the name of prophet Mohammad PBUH in the Holy Quran! to show the importance of Jesus in Islam! ALLAHOU AKBAR!
    Apologize if my english is unadapted or wrong Im not a native

  91. Gus Hales

    Bobo, have you ever thought about questioning your beliefs, have you ever thought that you believe what you believe because of the culture you have been raised in and what you have been told by others. Have you ever considered that the Holy Quran is just a plagerised set of myths taken from another plagerised set of myths, in other words have you ever considered thinking for yourself. Try listening with an open mind to the likes of Richard Dawkins(peace be upon him) or Christopher Hitchen PBUH, Daniel Dennet PBUH, Sam Harris PBUH. No wonder you believe in a God if you cannot think for yourself.

  92. Kurrrt

    Gus Hales
    Hello, (Just stepping in for a moment sir). I noticed the calm in your message, unlike cult believers forcing their appointed beliefs and unkind ancient messages using threats and fear. The mind is a terrible thing to waist. Your comment is thoughtful, and sets on the minds of the knowing just fine. I can only hope more catch on to a true course creation intended for humanity so mankind can move on into it's next advancing culture without the clutter and wrath of these various religions and ilogical beliefs. Thank you -Respectfully

  93. Gus Hales

    Yes Kurrrt, I agree until mankind wakes up and develops a common humanity without the need for primative supernatural and superstitious beliefs, we will always seperate ourselves into harmfull factions. But all is not lost, look at the good secular work that is going on in the wake of disasters such as Haiti and Pakistan. However, the religious will always be in those places, picking the bones of the weak and vulnerable looking for converts and spreading their ideology.
    Thank you for your kind words.

  94. Eli

    My thoughts to this are always more and more questions, yet I do believe in God or the creator source that perpetuates all things in the Universe through all its intricate, and complex wonders. And Science keeps confirming that to me through what it is the study of all things. Theology to me is just another science. So some questions to ponder on.

    It is like what came first the chicken or the egg.
    If we are God's creation, that settles a big part of it, but
    if life came first, than intelligent life, then from that intelligence God from our minds maybe we created God. Or have we been implanted those thoughts by other means from higher inteligence(s)? Nevertheless through things I have learned in life a discernment or gut feeling draws me to God.

    OR Are we then a piece to the whole of God that in the whole creation of the universe we are a part of God.

    And it seems that somehow in the documentary God thinking goes the direction of "if there is a God there is only one God". At least that is what the majority of the documentary seemed to show in all the different people of many religions.

    Could there be more than one God, if so would there be the God of Gods or the highest God. Much has been taught to us from our fore fathers depending on what religion you belong to. And that does influence us. Some of us question our religion some of us hold strong to it. For the most part those that believe in their religion is how they connect to God.

    Everyone friend/family and acqaintances thatI know that believe in something seems to be true to them, and it does not matter if they witnessed it. If you believe it is true to you. Faith seems to fall in that same realm. As if that is a power we all hold. Believe in something it is true to you no need for evidence. Maybe that is why religions try hard to come up with a way to make you believe. Fear, Love,
    Heaven, etc. Because once you do believe it is true to you
    of course unless you have doubts which then is not a believing.

    The science explanation to things of God does not prove there is not a God, but at the same time does not prove there is a God. Some of us use science as the ultimate debunker of God, and the reason as to why we are disbelievers or not.

    Science as I have taken courses when in college (microbiology, molecular biology, organ/inorganic chemistry, physics) to me does not have all the answers, I have learned it is limited to things that we can only experience through the limitations of our senses. And a very large part of science falls in the realm of specualtion, and theory that goes through political acceptance of the Science Community of which later might be proven wrong.. IN the micoscopic world we see some living organisms, in the subatomic we have to come to conjecture, and speculation and come to the best acceptable conclusions with the help of technologies at hand..

    Science to a large extent studies how things work, or function, or react, that are already there. It creates technologies through many of the findings, discovers new things, invents, but it is not original to what it learns from. And some discoveries and inventions were accidental. Science had to start somewhere, so it had to learn from what is already there and thus already created by? chance? Just something to ponder on.

    There are frequencies that we cannot feel yet are being absorbed by our brains, there are objects/phenomena that at certain freqquencies cannot be seen, and waves of sound frequencies we cannot hear. So we speculate through the help of invented technologies(radar as one of many), that it detects, yet our senses don't. So we have to make the best of what those technologies are telling us. Proof that something exist or not has to do with those limitations of our senses, and technologies at hand and what we interpret from that. And there is a long way to go to say we know how all things work through the methodology of science.

    I feel there is/are many forces in place in the Universe that continue the birthing or creations of all things and also the constant changing of things some chaos is a part of it as well. But systems like stars and planets around stars, and systems withing systems like galaxies, etc. to me are too organized to not feel an inteligence in their perpetual creation in the Universe we know. And some scientist believe/speculate in parallel and mulitiple Universes.

    So I do believe in God, not from the religion I was raised with which was Catholic, but by the constant questioning of my religion and many things I expereinced and learned in Life. And the revelation that Science is nothing more than studying much of what is already there and learns from it, and intelligence then creates and furthers its evovlement from that as well. I would say that our gift, intelligence and creativeness is part of that God's image. Without that science would never progress, and it came with our birth as a potential in life that is already there. I feel that came from the God Source for lack of a better scientific term.

  95. Gus Hales

    Eli, your post is very confusing, it is if you are trying to convince yourself that there is a God, but you give no explanation of which God it is that you are trying to believe in.
    Is it Diana, Possiedon, Thor, Isis, Atlas or Horus that you cannot disprove. If you were born in isolation on a desert Island not having been taught any of this stuff which of the cannot disprove Gods would you come up with, would it be the Christian trinity or would it be Shiva, Ghanesh, Zeus, or Allah. No the chances are through fear it would be the noises from the other side of the Island God, or the sea God or the lightning God. Do you not realise we have to be taught this stuff, and the stuff we are taught comes from the culture we are born into. As for Theology being a science, I dont think I have heard such a banal statement in a long time. Are Theologions working to find a cure for cancer, did they build aircraft and advance medicine, the next time you are ill dont go to hospital go to church and see if that mends your broken leg.

  96. Kurrrt

    Chicken or the egg? Unfertilized egg? If a fertilized egg- a chicken or a rooster?
    *Simple as: Mankind + Womankind = Humankind
    (not womankind = humankind)

  97. Kurrrt

    .
    Maybe this is the way it is, was, or will be,
    After religion, the focus gets centered into ourselves, as our creators intended in the first place. With a deep belief of one conscious focus within all humanity as one. We, in the image of our creator, this creator part regardless how minuet, it's consciousness is also within us. All of us together perhaps creates what humanity is seeking, like a god but it's simply just the creation of ourselves as one. The key of consciousness is at hand but the application has a Vail. In no outside of the human self shall any God exist. It's created for reasons of theirs, not yours. Knowing this then allows a start us off into the next culture and into new greater understandings of life. When those others are logically disregarded. Then technology launches without having any restrictions. After many advancements under go, mankind furthers the enhancing into even higher culture. Until advancements goes as far as eliminating of just 2 strands of mankind's DNA inhibits then even higher and extreme levels of intelligence, to advance so much as far as to create life. yes, but. The DNA change process takes away the ability to fight, engage in conflict to protect, and safeguard oneself. Because the DNA is not there, from the cause of advancing genetics, and doesn't allow this new man to cause harm. In order to protect this advanced level of humankind. They add the 2 strands back and breed it back in to the culture, protection is then eventually returned. With those 2 strands breed back into their culture, brings back the ability to create the necessary means to engage conflict and strategic protection methods to safeguard themselves once again. Those genetically manipulated ones build themselves armies of protection around these extreme advanced ones still void of the harm causing 2 strands of DNA. Their creators greatest nightmare comes in to view- These armies get so large they split in two, and abandon their world of these advanced level ones- and go on their own. Worlds like this one, existed before, many times, We are the after, much after. With our history erased, so one was made up and believed truth. Eventually ending up were we are today without history of origin, so eliminated that slavery is accomplished back to the beginning levels of civilization, not allowing advancement is very well planned agendas against us by the dark forces, including the many religions. Perhaps this is our universal cycle, some of this information came from off planet. Maybe we are related to those genetically manipulated people (with the 2 strands returned) who don't have a following of ancestry, and until humanity realizes who they really are, they remain victims of dark forces, who are above our controllers on this planet. The separation of ourselves is no mistake and is very well planned out to self destruct humanity by a dark presense. All this has been done to mankind on past worlds, in this same method, but awakened and evolved. We are a reflection of that which was, that also is now.
    Isn't "Thou Shall Not" written in the minds of every man? That's a tiny part of the separation between us and the rest of us, being perpetrated on man, it's all around us. We speak with too many voices. Outside of planet help cannot assist with so many different inner conflicts, having illogical power-structures, many Gods, rulers, etc. Look at highly advanced races witnessed skipping through our atmosphere effortlessly! With earths relentless environmental disregard, and corruption within w/street gangs, Mafia's, religions, banks, drugs, murder, would these evolved advanced ones above want any of that introduced to other worlds, or even theirs?
    One God theory uses Both copy's of historical biblical text which had 40 authors, with a early mindset and within slavery times. Future events apply only on humanity's aspects, not supernatural silliness. It's not that these historical living Gods, and biblical character's Jesus, Noah, Moses, didn't exist, they have some wonderful input. Priests throwing puzzle pieces of their chosen scriptures further branches the confusion. It's that these historical figures cannot help you in 2011+, only mankind alone will and can succeed in every attempt to acomplish this feat. The proof is out there, human ET's that supposedly look like we do, a culture way above ours who send messages which go ignored by most, they claim to be our original forefathers. They do have intense messages for mankind on this planet and do have some compassion for us. Once followers stop following and each become leaders of mankind, until then will we can truely find out who we really are, and and succeed as a race in becoming human. *To bring as much peace to each day a possible, every ones thoughts everyday.
    I'm in no way an expert on these subjects and not forcing a belief in anything on anyone for any reason, have a nice day.

  98. Eli

    Gus Hale,

    Making a reply. I laughed at your comments when I saw it not in a bad way though. I had written a very long but good commentary on your questions/comments of my commentary, And And I lost it when adding the commentary. It discourages me to write back. I will try to make this short this time, even though it is not easy.

    On your first question/comment on which God to believe in that made me laugh a little. It is hard to answer simply since how I came to my cocnlusion of what is God has evolved since childhood. But to answer you it is not from any God given a name through our History/Mythology stories, books, and Bible. Nevertheless all that literature, and the Bible was a beginning it is where God is mentioned a lot. I am a Catholic and was indoctrinated in the Old Testament and New Testament to establish Holy Communion as a child. And learned more as I felt curious to do so. God to me has evolved as I have learned things in other fields of science, poetry, and other philosophers and thinkers of old and modern literature. Science later in life which makes many doubt God or become Atheist reinforced in me the belief in God. God as I got older was separate and apart from Religion. To me I was learning that Religion is Man/Woman and God is separate and apart. And politics plays a big role in religion.

    I don't want to explain all since I would never finish. I feel strongly as to what I think God is, so no I am not trying to convince myself of who God is. God is what you perceive God to be once you believe he exists. At least that is how he exists within me.

    This one also made me laugh as to Theology being a science that you felt was a banal statement. It is my own interpretation of what science is since I have learned a lot from science. I studied Physcial Fitness, Health, and Nutrition. And other science away from an institution on my own. Theology is the study of questions that are brought up in religion(s), and their history or lack of history thereof. and more . Religion is and has been a very big part of our social structure. I look at Theology as a social/religious science, or part of a Social Science..

    And yes I would go to a doctor or hospital if I needed help on a broken leg or other accident. That was funny.

    Let me try to concise my Science connection to God. And why I feel many misunderstand Science and God. And I say this only as my opinion. What I have learned from Science is that we ourselves are subject to its learning. Our bodies our mind, our behaiviour, and so forth. It is a discipline of studies. Everything we learn from other living organisms small (bacteria, viruses, germs) or large (animals, plants),
    other nonliving matter, its reactions, actions, as in physics etc, did not come from science, it was already there.
    It was already created. Science was the tool to study it.
    Our intelligence/creativeness and reasoning to name a few that comes with our package (life) then creates, copies, or invents things. Life gave humans the tools to be scientific. It was created in him. Science did not create us. Science we use to learn from all things created, and expand or create from there for ourselves. We learn from all living, nonliving and in some cases questionable as to living or non living as do certain viruses. Physics we learn even to the subatomic level and we marvel at the revelations of molecules and atoms and down further to the quantum level. Of which we only have an idea of how they really look. Does this mean that as we learn more and understand more and more of how things work there is no God.

    I felt the more I learned from science the more i believed in God. Things were too organized in my opinion. What has created all this things we are learning from. Not Science. Science is the tool that learns from it, discovers, tries to see how it works. But most of what science is is learning from what is already there and putting it to use or expanding from its ideas to our own creation of technologies and other inventions.

    My point is science did not create humans, earth and everything in it, suns, stars which are suns, galaxies, which look like stars to us and all its systems that seem to have a planned organized creation. It is hard for me not to believe that there is not an intelligence behind all this wonderous systems of systems that go down to our own lives and all other living and nonliving things. There is so much matter in the Universe we still have no idea what it all is about.

    And that is where God has evolved to me as to who what God is.. God is not just creator of Earth and all that is in earth, but the whole universe and beyond what we are as of yet to learn. The on going creation of stars, planets, galaxies, and all that lies within that seen and not seen. What pushes that source, that energy, all that matter that continues this creation is God to me. And it encompasses all things and we are part of it. And I don't feel Earth is the cradle of life to the whole Universe.

    We according to the Bible were created from Gods Image. Was that the whole of who we are, or the best of who we are. We think, reason, create/destroy, love/hate, and like God we need some praise, some attention some of us more than others. But to be perfect we have to rid or control our worse parts. Hate, Anger, envy, jouleasy, destruction, wars, and all things that lead to that.
    Maybe then we would be more like the Image of God. Can we make it?

  99. Eli

    Kurrrt09/08/2010 at 15:00 Chicken or the egg? Unfertilized egg? If a fertilized egg- a chicken or a rooster?
    *Simple as: Mankind + Womankind = Humankind
    (not womankind = humankind)

    Ha Ha. I was shooting questions as to how different people feel if God created us or we Created God in our minds, thus what came first. The Chicken or the Egg. In my own feelings God created all that is continually being created. The whole universe. I also read your last commentary, and What God is can evolve in those who believe in God as they learn or experience more of Life.
    There is much going through your mind that is either trying to make sense of things of why the God question.

    In some ways that has been my case.

  100. Kurrrt

    Yup, kidden around with eggs- and a couple hard boiled yokes are so good in spagetti sause. I'm not yoken one bit. I pulled the info I shared lately from more then a few abducted people who share a same story, living in different cultures in other countries in different languages. I was running around with the question; what belief does advanced human races have? I found the answers, many, with eupraxsophy. There's a Book of Enoch, their version. Unlike the bible one. I was a christian most my life, born into it without a choice, now in limbo and researching truths. All what I came upon is gourmet food for deep thought. I saved the stuff, for others to share this interest. Anyways everyone I mention these understandings seems to rings a bell in their imagination,humm imagine- truth. At last. Earths religion's of never seen one God(s) is elements of conflict and eventual slavery according to those who all ready evolved above our "standing still" culture. Restrictions of advancements we should have, are the fault's of huge power structures and more then enough different religons.
    They mention dark forces restricting us, and if we don't evolve together away from these historical Gods, we'll be victims to their harsh ongoing control. Our outside visitors were extremely successful in their belief system, it's not a religion, they are an amazing race. They send one main message telling of what we seek is -each other in consciousness as one. They send a very crystal clear message which all of them are clearly understandable as they unfold with truths you cannot deny. Step aside from religion for just a second thought of it being better, and everyone in the world now brings as many peaceful moments to each day as possible. Understandings to accmplish this has simple instructions and vry comfortable to live with. It certainly beats a belief of a loving forgiving one God who threatens with the fear and the threat of being sent to an unknown place hell. Dang. Supernatural story's to me is a closed book history kept for all these years by mistake. "Those in modern governments who think they are in control and planning this scenario, are just a controlled as their plan for you".
    I'm not an expert, the information is available, so is Project Camelot, just sharing what I ponder my thoughts upon. good day-

  101. kaur

    the man interviewed in part 1, KPS GILL, is a WAR CRIMINAL...he should be in JAIL. But India is a corrupt country and instead of putting that b@#$%&* in Jail for killing thousands of Sikhs, he is being awarded and he should take off his turban, he is not even a Sikh, I don't know why he wears one, I guess to FOOL people.

    CLEARLY the maker of this film did not do enough research, the evil people in India sent him to interview an evil man, but little does the western world know that KPS Gill is responsible for killing thousands of insurgents, torturing innocent people, terrorizing villages and killing the innocent in Punjab, India, which is just one particular region in north-western India....INDIA is not even a UNITED country, it has so MANY different religions, languages, etc.

    Some religions are more modern and some are ancient and believe in many myths.

  102. Sparky J

    For many years mankind all over the world worshiped the sun as GOD... There are far to many writings from times past that have been lost or disreguarded as canon... I think GOD is a racket & they use it to beat you into subserviance... Why do people feel the need to have a warden/protector?? Why not just be the best you you can be without fearing the wrath of a GOD??

  103. Eli

    Sparky J09/15/2010 at 21:58 For many years mankind all over the world worshiped the sun as GOD… There are far to many writings from times past that have been lost or disreguarded as canon… I think GOD is a racket & they use it to beat you into subserviance… Why do people feel the need to have a warden/protector?? Why not just be the best you you can be without fearing the wrath of a GOD??

    In many religions there is much wisdom, and yet it has been used to control the masses. It has been a type of hypnosis to be connected to our creator. In one of the Bible's ten commandments it says though shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in Vain. Though shall not Kill is another one.

    Yet in the Name of the Lord or God much evil has been done. One outright example is the horrors of the Crusades. And of course a lot more widespread through out history. Yet people will find any other wording in the Bible to defend using the Name of God in vain. To me that is justification to be hipocrites.

    Such are the pitfalls of humanity, as to what they will do to stay or not let go of their power. And because of this throughout history is why you learn that Religion is man and God is separate and apart. And the use and name of God has been used in vain over and over through out history. But to those who are needy, who are suffering, who live on nothing but their labors, and hardships are easily susceptible to be manipulated into religion since it gives them hope in another kingdom. That is why that will always be perpetrated by the empowered. It continues their control.
    It is a shame, but such is the case.

  104. Kurrrt

    Humanity was and still is faced with many deaths caused by conflicts of religions. God's were introduced by man asking for outside help. Little does everyone know the help mankind is looking for is coalesced within us all. Olden day rulers made their written words of God do their best keeping us from knowing our potentials. If only a preacher knew truth, and quit forcing evils within religions onto the innocent man. We then could be free once again as "one human race". Baptism is wrong forcing false belief before the age of consent of an innocent child, born into parents false faiths.
    Ministering the essence of mankind upwards towards an empty hole in the sky onto a non-existing entity is not going to ever do it. Pathetic preachers convince you that it is, because of an ancient book used to rule hundreds of years ago, evidently constructed by much more darker forces then the mind can understand. Directs those only who follow. and it's brougt you closer to slavery. Only a leader can understand this act. Creation did not give man a bible for advancing into mans future. But to only keep mankind away from it.
    Direct focus onto humanity alone, because no outside forces will help you. Did you notice God did not ever save one life? Caused millions to suffer their deaths by the hands of religions? Awaken to the facts of truths which lie just, in front of your eyes.
    Here's among the bibles most illogical conflicting statements:
    *Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
    - Proverbs 3:13
    *For in much wisdom is much grief; and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
    - Ecclesiastes 1:18

  105. Kurrrt

    The conscious human focus of prayer at a thanksgiving feast gets directed to God above in heaven, when those who need the focus the most are siting right next to you. Same goes everywhere you pray, our inner consciousness is directed elsewhere. As the dark forces laugh at you everyday it's done. The deeper and farther away the conscious focus becomes away from us, (a human race as one). You allow this to take place daily. Why? Clueless?
    We need the focus on man, in no other place will you successfully find true peace, love and the harmony of understanding life within earths provided creation.
    The religious need the most forgiveness of all in humanity. Recovering from religion is achieved by being one with mankind alone. Asking for outside help (God) will bring what evils you witness today...
    (Seek not abroad, turn around the truth lies within the inner man. *St. Augustine)
    Have a great day- everyday.

  106. Kurrrt

    Get rid of all the God's, all the evil's will follow.

    Get rid of all the heavens, all the hell's will follow.

    The only truth about any God, Heaven, or Hell, is that with them only can an evil exist. Our bibles have supplied us with some vaulable lessons on human behavior, kindness and love. And some parts it's has not. The focus of consciousness within human nature is needed most now.
    *Awakening and evolving as one human race on our earth so our cultue may go ahead and beyond is the concern of moments, not months and years.
    #1. You can start off by bringing as much peace to each day as possible.

  107. Sparky J

    Eli, In my country (USA) there is an extream religous battle getting underway due to the media & religious propaganda... I feel like the so called christian nation is trying to bring about all that junk in revelation... I could care less if people need a GOD or not I am worried that they are encouraging a holy war in which I am going to have to live through because someone has daddy issues...

    I am the daughter of christian ministers & johova's whitnesses & married a chatholic... I have one thing to say about it... If everybody who believes that if your not on thier boat your going to hell knows that they are all on the same boat & that heaven/paradice/niverana/whatever is going to be a loanly place...

    In the begining there was Adam & Eve & the tree of knowledge... I don't know about you but I try to feed my child as much knowledge as possible...

    P.S. This guy kurrrt sure has alot of nothing to say...

    One Love...

  108. Gus Hales

    Hi Eli,
    In reply to your post, you confirmed to me just what damage has been done to you regarding the Catholic stuff. I think you made up that whole post just to convince yourself that your view of the God idea is the ONE TRUE GOD. Lastly I think the tooth fairy is God, after all it's just as valid as your version. And of the tooth fairy I have complete faith through experience and it wasnt science that created the tooth fairy it was the tooth fairy that created everything. If you dont believe me then read the tooth fairy Buybul.

  109. Eli

    Again I feel there is some humor in your reply. That is a childish invention, the tooth fairy or fairy godmother etc. by parents and fairy tale literature.

    What I wrote is a process of what happened to me in the God quest. It either stays the same to many from childhood on or it changes. My view of God has changed, and I feel will continue to do so. Religion is man, God is apart. Religion is written by man not God.

    Catholic was my upbringing, I am presently not partial to any religion. I have much respect to many religions, but at my point and time in life which I feel is much older than you by the way you make your comments. Remember you have to feel good about yourself inside and in reference to what all this is about. If religion or a particular faith makes you feel good and secure that is your choice, I respect it. I feel good how I feel of God. And that is what is important.

    God be with you.
    Have a good day.

  110. Eli

    Sparky J

    I am the daughter of christian ministers & johova’s whitnesses & married a chatholic… I have one thing to say about it… If everybody who believes that if your not on thier boat your going to hell knows that they are all on the same boat & that heaven/paradice/niverana/whatever is going to be a loanly place…

    Sparky J,

    I feel like you in that I don't feel God is partial to any one religion, and therefore would not have a hell ready for those who do not belong to a particular religion. But we all have to make our own discernment on this topic. I respect anyone who has found peace within themselves whether believing in or not believing in God. And feel perplexed of those who feel anger or condemn others to hell if they don't abide by their beliefs. That in itself tells me that they would be hating, or resentful, or troubled of others not believing what they do. And that is spawned by the very religion they believe in. That discord has created many problems to this day.

    Follow your heart, your soul where it makes you feel good inside. Life can be a long journey, even when it is short, and we are always learning from it.

  111. Gus Hales

    Eli, you keep avoiding the question. Firstly, "YOUR" God is "YOUR" God, it is in your mind it is you that made it up. You claim to know or have some esoteric knowledge on what God is, when pushed you claim to know by experience, which you take as truth but can present no evidence, but just claim to know. However, you dismiss my claim to know by experience as childish, that the tooth-fairy exists. But I know the tooth-fairy in exactly the same way you know God, don't you think you are being arrogant and sectarian in not accepting my tooth fairy truth after all it has as much validity as your God. The only difference is that as far as I am aware, no one has flown a plane into a building shouting the tooth-fairy is great or has had a tooth-fairy inquisition or tooth-fairy Jihad. Therefore, I will always be a tooth-fairy believer because it is by far moraly superior than any God that has been invented in the mind of man, and that includes your version. Oh and by the way considering that God created everything then God created religion, not man.

  112. Scott Henthorn

    To all who think they are really on to something by comparing belief in God to belief in the Tooth Fairy or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, you’re not. It probably does not matter to you how foolish this comparison is but it reveals a deep ignorance of the subject matter. Even if Christianity is just make believe it is of a very different order than the folk tale of the tooth fairy or fabricated FSM. If you have no desire to learn these differences fine, but why bother posting about things you will to know little or nothing about?

    Historically grounded in fact or not Christian faith, like other faiths, is deeply narrative. I think this meets a very human need. We make sense of things over time and connect them in sequences and take interest in changes along the way. I think this is what Dawkins means when he says Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually satisfied Atheist. Darwin provided a narrative scheme leading back deep into our origins. In truth he provided very little of the narrative but more a mechanism by which to organise information to synthesize narratives from. Still, very little of the narrative is yet known and much that is told is just speculation and not ‘true’ in any hard sense of that word. But this does not seem to bother most who hold evolution as their dominant narrative, nor should it. Half the fun is in generating the tales as to why this or that attribute or faculty was selected for adaptability, and some comfort is derived from this kind of discussion as it grounds events in history and narrative, and gives our faculties a reasonable cause. Whether these evolutionary tales are spun by scientists picking over bones or by CBC radio hosts surmising how infidelity functions as an adaptive advantage in human communities, more often than not these stories are based on little more truth value than folk tales.

    So we all live in worlds of speculative narrative to some degree or other. Even the stories we tell of our families either recent or from past generations are so simplified from the actual web of vents they are drawn from and further altered in the telling to generate an overreaching narrative that they can hardly be taken as significant representations of past events. Life in a world where we can make no sense of time stretching forward or backward is intolerable. There is at least a three part function in our narratives. They make sense of our origins, give a vision of where we are headed, and so place us ‘in’ the story. In old fashioned philosophical terms our narratives provide an efficient and a teleological cause for our current placement in history. So though some have, in the name of Christ, killed others to maintain power, within the Christian narrative they are acting in opposition to Christ. He was the victim of State and Religious violence. So the best critique of the tyranny of some Christians is the Gospel narrative itself.

    The narrative of the Tooth Fairy or the FSM have no ability to inspire peaceful opposition to tyranny, nor to provide the necessary understanding of history or the Hope of a better future that such actions are based on.

    The Carpenter

  113. Randy

    I don't have the strength for another god-debate...

    I just don't see why we can't grind up all the relgious/superstitious into hamburger and feed them to the poor.

    We solve so MANY problems that way... overpopulation, world starvation, self perpetuating lack of intelligence...

    *sigh* A man can dream...

  114. Gus Hales

    Scott Henthorn, because I don't believe your fairy story then I dont have the ability to understand. Raised a Christian I never questioned I took it for granted, because the grown ups told me it was all true, but it never sat easy. However, there came a time when I had developed the faculty of reasoning. If people need this type of crutch then fine but at least be honest and say there is not one shred of evidence or truth in the whole nonsense and it is merely fiction. So I would recommend that anyone reads Aesops fables or the Buddhist Jataka tales if you need some real moral guidance. Don't forget it was gentle Jesus meek and mild that put forward hell as a punishment for not believing. It was the Christian God of the Buybull that advocates murder on a vast scale. So come off it, humanity will never progress until this lying to children stops. Long live the tooth fairy.

  115. Randy

    @Gus

    Um, CLEARLY, Batman is a far superior diety than the tooth fairy! I mean, C'MON!

    He's got the cape, that cool thingie that shoots out the Bat-line... and stuff...

    And the Car? Get your head out of your...

    Plus, I have like, 300 books all proclaiming the Glory of The One True Batman... and movies... (most of them not too good, but still...) cartoons! Yeah.

    Dude, you need a reality check with that tooth fairy stuff...

    I'm just sayin'

  116. Gus Hales

    Ok Randy, you've convinced me I concede the point, Batman is a far superior deity to the tooth fairy. I too have read the gospel of Bruce Wayne and on the road to Gotham city I saw a blinding flash of light and have changed from Gus to Rus.

  117. Randy

    Praise The Dark Knight! Rus has seen the light... (of the Bat-Signal...)!

    Now, we are totally both agreed that he is NOT a homsexual, right? I mean, most historians have refuted that as nonsense... Not that there is anything wrong with it...

    I mean, just because he lives in a cave with a young boy wearing S&M gear... I mean, WHO DOESN'T!!!

    Am I right?

  118. Achems Razor

    @Randy:

    Well, I disagree vehemently, "Spiderman" is the numero uno, only because I have collectibles, even a spider man doll that talks (LOL) "no" am not reverting to my feminine side, or whatever they call it. It is just for money, honest!

  119. Rus Hales

    In the begining Batman.

  120. Randy

    @Achems

    You filthy heretic! Spiderman!??!!! Clearly, you have not read the scholarship, agrred to through rigorous perr review by DC editors, that the MArvel Gospel is a hoax...

    There is no co-relating evidence for this Spiderman... I mean, think clearly, man! Does radiation make you stronger? Does it make you stick to stuff? No...

    You should use your namesake, Ocham's Razor as a guide. What is more likely, a rich guy with super-kung-fu action, or a teenager with radiation sickness that can stick to walls...

    People just don't THINK!

  121. Randy

    I'm sorry, in my emotional state, I made many spelling errors above... it just wounds me that a man who seemed so sensible, like Achems, could fall for such a false truth...

    Spiderman.... bah!

  122. Scott Henthorn

    Randy,

    If you don’t want to debate or have a conversation about God, then don’t. This is the Religion section of this documentary page. To avoid further cannibalistic fantasies it might be best for you to avoid this section.

    This is clearly a waist of time. Three belligerent activists overrun the conversation with claptrap.

    Anyone willing to discuss this issue with some content?

    The Carpenter

  123. Randy

    Actually Scott, this "debate parody" is very much to the point. It shows the futility of the debate in an entertaining, (I hope), way.

    It also points out the flaws in your god arguments, I think quite well.

    Plus it is based on a well established quote "If the bible proves god exists, then comic books prove Superman exists..."

    Of course, Superman is a myth, we all know aliens don't exist... Batman is a real guy!

  124. Vlatko

    @Scott Henthorn,

    Anyone can debate/discus anywhere on the site. The site is not divided nor it contains restricted areas for particular visitors.

  125. Rus Hales

    Scott Henthorn, hopefully you are now seeing the insidious nature of belief/religion. Quote, This is the religion section of the documentary page.-Three belligerant activists overun the conversation with claptrap. Are you saying that your world view is the only valid one. Have you not considered that you may have started the claptrap with your God idea myth. Have you considered that there is just as much evidence for God as there is for Spiderman and Batman. Are you saying that my experience on the road to Gotham city is not real, are you saying that I made the whole thing up. Now where have I heard that before.

  126. Achems Razor

    That's right, even though highly unlikely, who is to say that in 2000 years Batman, "SPIDERMAN", may not be the religions, at least there will be more proof, books, movies, paraphernalia, etc: than the stuff we have now on the bronze age myths.

  127. Randy

    I was reading up above and this Sparky J woman has it goin' ON!

    Some quotes from her for truth:
    ----------------------------------
    "...In my country (USA) there is an extream religous battle getting underway due to the media & religious propaganda… I feel like the so called christian nation is trying to bring about all that junk in revelation… I could care less if people need a GOD or not I am worried that they are encouraging a holy war in which I am going to have to live through because someone has daddy issues…"
    -------------------------------

    Yes. Yes. Yes. And indeed, Yes! A point I try to make as an American very often but you crystalized it there very well.

    Then she writes this:
    ----------------------------------
    "I think GOD is a racket & they use it to beat you into subserviance… Why do people feel the need to have a warden/protector?? Why not just be the best you you can be without fearing the wrath of a GOD??"
    ---------------------

    Exactly. I think the only sane way to go through life is to act as if no one is looking out for you. If there is, fine... but, can you rely on that invisible friend?

    All you religious folks, try this experiment at home:

    The next fire you get in your kitchen, don't run for the fire extinguisher, pray for jesus and his angels to save you.

    If no one comes to visit you in the burn ward, it would kinda be what you deserve... sorry...

  128. Sparky J

    Why thank you Randy... I sit in a 12 X 12 cube with a born again & I try to listen to documentries about religion, politics, & global warming... I ask him questions and his opinions on the content of what I am studing that day... I have found that a majority of the time his GOD clouds his views on the other 2 subjects... Why is it that people are so willing to go against thier best intrests to keep up apperances?? If your eye causes you to sin pluck it out... Where are all the blind faithful?? Litterly??

  129. Sparky J

    @Achems... I suggest the documentray "The Charriotts of the GODs"... There are all sorts of signs from acient times that can be translated a great many different ways... Who knows what the future civilizations will think of us... BTW, Bruce Wayne ROCKS... Go Team Batman...

  130. Achems Razor

    @Sparky J:

    I have read all of "Erich Von Daniken's" Books, chariots of the gods etc: some years back, have read more books than you can imagine.

    "Spiderman's" the man! Batman's retired! He's in a bat-wheelchair.

  131. Scott Henthorn

    My apologies for any offence all around.

    I will resist cutting in on your mutual admiration club.

    The Carpenter

  132. Rus Hales

    Hi Scott, dispointed with your grudging reply. I can assure you that the above posts are nothing to do with mutual admiration, but merely an exposition of the nonsense of the god idea. However, you have a different view of god, you claim to know from your personal experience. Don't you get it yet, we all have personal experiences, but some of us don't claim to know some mystical divine revelation that makes me special. I remember being drunk once and I saw pink elephants, I can assure you they were very real, I definitely saw them, I had a personal experience. But I used my cognative ability to understand that it was probably because I was intoxicated. The believers are different, because they experience something in their minds, through normal brain activity, they then weave that experience into a set of bronze age myths which have been learnt from their cultural upbringing, then claim this to be ultimate truth and anyone who doesn't believe my story will go to a place of eternal suffering. All this is fine, if that's what you want to believe. But the believers poison childrens minds with this stuff, making them full of fear, as can be demonstrated by your huffy grudging reply, no doubt influenced by your fearful Catholic background.

  133. Eli

    Gus Hales09/21/2010 at 14:07 Eli, you keep avoiding the question. Firstly, “YOUR” God is “YOUR” God, it is in your mind it is you that made it up. You claim to know or have some esoteric knowledge on what God is, when pushed you claim to know by experience, which you take as truth but can present no evidence, but just claim to know. However, you dismiss my claim to know by experience as childish, that the tooth-fairy exists. But I know the tooth-fairy in exactly the same way you know God, don’t you think you are being arrogant and sectarian in not accepting my tooth fairy truth after all it has as much validity as your God. The only difference is that as far as I am aware, no one has flown a plane into a building shouting the tooth-fairy is great or has had a tooth-fairy inquisition or tooth-fairy Jihad. Therefore, I will always be a tooth-fairy believer because it is by far moraly superior than any God that has been invented in t

    Gus Hales,
    You misunderstood, I was not directing childish at you, but the tooth fairy as tales for children. And yes I understand how you are trying to make the tooth fairy analogy to how God has become part of my belief or how I see God.

    If I sound arrogant it is not intentional, but how do I explain to you in this commentary space of one movie of what God is to me. It has taken 55 years of much much more.

    I will try not to be too long on this. In all of us we have imagination. We take that for granted. Yet it is a very powerful tool. We can imagine anything. In that line or realm is also the power to believe or not to believe. To me both are the same in that we have concluded a belief one way or the other. Faith and hope are much the same. What you beieve is your truth, it does not matter if it is to others or not. It is your reality. We all fall in that whether you believe or not in God. I feel stongly in God through many years of questioning and searching for answers. You don't have to believe in how I look at God. I respect that. I feel good in how I see God. I only have to convince myself not you. If you translate that into the tooth fairy than do as you wish.

    Peace be with you.
    Eli

  134. Eli

    Sparky J09/21/2010 at 22:53 @Achems… I suggest the documentray “The Charriotts of the GODs”… There are all sorts of signs from acient times that can be translated a great many different ways… Who knows what the future civilizations will think of us… BTW, Bruce Wayne ROCKS… Go Team Batman…

    Thanks for the referral, I saw that way back when it first came out. I read the book too. Thanks again.

  135. Rus Hales

    Yes Eli, cannot disagree with that, what you believe is what you believe and that is a matter for you. But some of us are sick and tired of the believers who don't want to keep this stuff to themselves. Some of us are sick and tired of the believers who want to bring about nuclear Armageddon because it is prophesised in some ancient book and the here and now is not good enough. Some of us are disturbed when planes are flown into buildings in the name of God and paradise, we are fed up with bombs on tube trains and the blatent discrimination of minority groups. We are fed up with childrens minds being poisoned by nothing more than a mass delusion, stultifying their ability to reason and keeping them in bondage to the god industry. So why does god always need money? It is time to grow out of this stuff and create a new way of living peacefully and harmoneously on this planet without this insidious poison.

  136. Eli

    Rus Hales,
    I do agree with everything you said on your last commentary. Which I read on my email not up as I am writing.

    Power has always used God and Religion as a political control tool. That has created many different religions to be at war and hate with each other. It is true what you say of power, money, and death for a God. If you study History, and how certain groups have held to power you understand why the belief in God and religion can create much evil and destruction. Isn't that a oxymoron.

    In the name of God and religion we do Evil. If you look into all this history you begin to understand how it is used. I saw that at a very early age. And questioned much in my religion, and therefore started questioning its purpose. It doesn't take long to see how it is being used. What you feel frustrated with is that once the followers commit or believe it is like a hypnosis. They only see that they are right and others a threat. That is why dogma is so dangerous.

  137. Sparky J

    Pink Elephants... Batman... This is the best damm religion conversation I have ever had...lol I personally don't see how someone can put faith in a book written by man under the supervision of man used by man to keep man down... I don't see how GOD asked a man to kill his child & we accept that as the will of GOD but when people say GOD told them to do it today we think they are crazy... If judgement belongs to the lord why are the religious so damm judgemental...

  138. Charles B.

    Sparky J: The difference between Abraham's story and some lunitic who drowns her own kids and says that "God told me to do it" is that when God was testing Abraham's faith, He stopped Abraham from hurting Isaac. The difference is that you don't believe there is a God, so both are equally "crazy" in your unbelieving heart. That's just not the case.

    Why are we "judgemental"? That is because we are told to make righteous judgement. When evil is masked in the name of God, then that is espeically vial, don't you think? Wouldn't those who truly do love God be the first to condemn such? I do. But, hey! You're judgmental, and you're not even religious. Why are atheists so d. "judgemental" of people of faith?!?

  139. Sparky J

    Eli, I have one question... Why?? I read above about your beliefs, & totally understand that it is your choice... My question is why??

    I love my family on both sides.. But when I am with one I hear a bit of condisinding language in reguards to the other side and visversa... If GOD is love how can there be, even if it is in the slightest way, distane for another human?? Is it a learned trate of religion that you should have ill thoughts toward someone who basically believes the same thing as you but doesn't attend your meetings??

    WHY?? What is the feeling you get by not taking responsibilities for your actions and lot in life by saying it is the will of GOD... Or the fact that there isn't enuff food to eat as a TEST of GOD... WHY do you need a GOD??

  140. Sparky J

    I never said I was an atheists Charlie Brown... I never said I was anything but a person questioning the reasoning for a warden in the sky to keep people on the straight and narrow...

    The fact is WE don't know what happened on the mount with Abraham & his son... For all we know he didn't do it because he loved his child more then his GOD... But we don't even know if there was an Abraham at all of if is just some story from times of old that had been told over and over again and didn't even resemble the original story when it got into the Bible that we know today... And unless you are a linguist & can read acient Hebrew & have studied the original scrolls how could you just blindly believe that what is in that Bible is the same & on that note not just bedtime stories for people who didn't have any sort of entertainment in the dark of nights without the light of fire...

    And if you are talking about the horrible things carried out in the name of GOD, it happens everyday... That is the best defence... Look at the Vatican today... What is the headline??

    See I have this wonderful thing called a brain that allows me to know that fire is hot... And if reasoning is judgemental then I suppose you are right... But I refuse to hate someone because my pastor told me I should right after he took his 10%...

  141. Scott Henthorn

    Rus,

    Your sardonic, I’m huffy.

    I am not actually in a huff at all I certainly do not need confirmation here to make decisions for myself. The problem I have here is that as soon as someone claims belief in God they are sorted into a fixed type. Such simplistic categorization leads to the absurdity of placing Dr.MLKJ, Gandhi, Osama Bin Laden and me in the same category. Much of what you assume about me is simply not true. For one I am not a catholic, I am not sure where you got that from. If we do not engage person by person or idea by idea how are we any different than bigoted ‘us-them’ categorizations of fanatic groups. If reason and intelligence are to retain any hold in civil discourse we will need to teach our young to be more patient in listening.

    All,

    No one engaged the content of my post. I presented a challenge to what I consider a category error in lumping belief in the Tooth Fairy (or Batman, Spiderman. . .) with belief in God in the content of a faith tradition. But obviously this is not the forum for intelligent conversation, and being of a superior intellectual ability and more capable of subtle abstract thought I should take my gifts elsewhere.

    Batman is just begadgeted defender of wealth and privilege. No hero. Spiderman! He’s the people man!

    The Carpenter

  142. Sparky J

    Carpenter, What was the challange??

    BTW, Just because Bruce Wayne is a billionaire doesn't make him a defender of wealth... He fights crime in Gotham taking down drug lords & thugs out of the grace & goodness of his heart... He sacrifices himself for the masses... Kinda sounds like another character in another book....

    P.S. It really peeves me when someone has to boost thier ego by telling others just how "Superior" thier intellect is...

  143. Scott Henthorn

    Sparky J,

    I thought theists were humourless.

    The Carpenter

  144. Scott Henthorn

    Sparky J,

    The challenge was a set or two of misunderstandings back on the subject of narratives..

    I am trying to use humour to prompt some real conversation here.

    Still waiting.

  145. Sparky J

    Well Carpenter, was that an attempt at humor or a judgement call... For now lets just say I'm a horse of a different color...

    What's your challange??

  146. Sparky J

    What is the topic of conversation??

  147. Charles B.

    Sparky J: Well, I used to be able to read Hebrew, so yes, I could study the original language the story is written in. My minor in college was "Biblical Languages" but I've forgotten most of it. When I go for my masters degree, I'll try and relearn it, and hopefully this time I will keep up with it. I used to be able to read in Greek too, but if you don't use it, you loose it.

    But, to be truthful, the English is translated well enough to understand the story.

    But, you are right: some very bad things are carried out by professing "Christians". For that, I am deeply sorry. May God judge all our hearts, and may those falsely called by His name receive the greater judgment.

    also, I'm interested in Eli's reply but if he does a poor job of it, I'll take a crack at it tomorrow. Maybe.

    Scott: No one wants to be too long-winded. That's a bit boring. Be more concise. What are you trying to prove? What's your "ax to grind"? I've found that short somewhat rude comments are more likely to get a reply then long boring wordy blah blah hard-to-understand rambling!

    Dr. Randy: Don't get tired of giving your opinion. I actually look forward to your crankiness sometimes!

    Peace to you all.

  148. Sparky J

    Chealie Brown: Kudos on the education... If you feel that you have to get up on the language that is great... Just think about this, there are people walking around right now with little boxes tied to their hands & heads because the bible says the word of GOD is to be present in thought and actions... It isn't only the words that can be distorted it is also the whole litteral verses metaphorical thing... Good luck on that masters... I just hope that quest for knowledge doesn't interfere with the faith thing...

  149. Charles B.

    Ok. I've always liked Charlie Brown. That's what my cousin calls me too. I'll have to contemplate "box heads" another time.

  150. Randy

    Sparky J,

    Charles B. and I have gone round and round many times on the site. I like him, he is a sweet guy, but, HOO-BOY has he drunk of the christ-y kool-aid! He is a real born-again fundie, Pentacostal, speaking in tongues, doing a jig-for-jesus, kind o' guy!

    He lives in South Korea, (one of the most christ-y places on the planet), married to an asian woman, has two (?) beautiful kids, a bit of a weight problem (but he is eating a lot of fiber like I recommended to him-- aren't you Charles!), and from the sound of it, he is just coming out of some revival meeting or something, because I haven't heard him this irrational in months!

    He believes in the absolute unerring word of god that is the bible, for him. Its literal translation as it is a "magic book" it can never be mis-translated. The holy spirit would not allow that, you see.

    Unfortunately, that means that if his children disobey him, he can drag them to the city limits and stone them to death. Or, if he gets hard up for money he can sell his younger daughter into slavery and god will smile at his good judgement.

    Jeeze, Charles, the amount of horror and blood this god of yours seems to bathe in, ever wonder if it's really Satan you are worshipping? I mean, isn't that the kind of trick he would play? Tricking you into worshipping him as god?

    Think about it...

  151. Rus Hales

    Ok Scott, Quote- No one engaged the content of my post, I presented a challenge to what I consider a category error in lumping belief in the tooth fairy (Batman Spiderman) with belief in god within the content of a faith tradition.

    But obviously this is not the forum for intelligent conversation". Ok Scott I take up the challenge, so which God of the faith tradition do you want to intelligently discus. Is it, Angistis, Ah Puch, Ahura Mazda, Alberich, llah, Ametarasu, An, Anansi, Anat, Andvari, Anshar, Anu, Aphrodite, Apollo, Apsu, Ares, Artemis, Asclepious, Athena, Atherat, Athtart, Atlas, Baal, Ba Xian, Bacus, Balder,Bast, ballona, Berqelmer, Bes, BixiaYouanjin, Braqi, Brahma, Briqit, Camaxtli, Ceres, Ceridwin, Cernunos, Chac, Charun, Chemos, Chenhuang, Cybele, Dagon, Damkina, Davlin, Dawn, Demeter, Diana, Dikang, Dianisu, Ea, El, Enki, Enlil, Eos, Epona, Ereskigal, Farbuati, Fenrir, Forseti, Freya, Freyr, Frigg, Gaia, Ganesh, Ganga, Garuda, Gauri, Geb, Giong Si, Guanyin, Hades, Hanuman, Hathor, Hacate, Helios, Hengho, Hera, Hermes, Hestia, Hod, Hoderi, Hoori, Horus, Hotei, Inanna, Inti, Iris, Istar, Isis, Ixtab, Jesus, Juno, Jupiter, Juturna, Ki, Kingu, Khrishna, Kuan-yin, Kishar, Leto, Liza, Loki, Lugh, Luna, Magnamata, Mars, Mzu, Mebd, Mercury, Mimo, Min, Minerva, Mithras, Mot, Muses, Nammu, Nanna, Nanse, Nemisis, NeptuneNintu, Nuqua... to name but a few.

    So which one is it to be Scott for this intelligent discussion.

  152. Randy

    @Rus

    HOLY BATMAN! That was awesome! I haven't seen some of the names of those gods there since college! Many of them I worshipped in the whacky religions I joined as a pup! But that's a whole 'nother story, that I have related many times on the site...

    Anyways, excellent way of pointing out there are as many, if not more, gods floating around than superheroes in the comics. And they are all just as valid or in-valid as the comicbook "gods".

    (Which, everyone knows, right? Comic books are modern day god-myths? Right?)

  153. Achems Razor

    @Rus:

    HOLY SPIDERMAN!

    Read every gods name, wonder if anyone one knows all the names of the 28,000,000 gods since recorded history. Probably not.

  154. Randy

    @Achems

    You filthy heretic! Stop your pagan worship of this false god! Or... or... you know... I'll beat you up! Yeah! I'll declare a Holy War on you!

    Besides, Batman totally kicked Spiderman's blue and red ass in not one-- but TWO--- Marvel/DC special issue cross-overs.

    There's no way a manic depressive teenager with delusions of super-hero could beat a super-genius, scientist, master detective, super-rich, master ninja like The Batman.

    I mean let's be REALISTIC! (LOL, that made me laugh...)

  155. Achems Razor

    @Randy:

    Since this doc is about gods, not out of line to declare my "Spiderman" the 28,000,001 and one, god since recorded history, now that he is a bonafied god, expect allegiance!!

    HAIL! SPIDERMAN!!

  156. Achems Razor

    Besides I have a talking Spiderman doll, that talks to me, and is telling me where to find some golden tablets!

  157. Sadie the Celt

    @ Randy

    you are seriously funny - that was a wikkid nice blog about Charles B.
    ... only wish you would/could describe yourself with the same candour!

  158. Randy

    Thanks, Sadie, NOW will you get your stilletos off of my balls?

    @Achems

    BTW, I liked your comment above about the future civs possibly believing comic-book heroes were our gods.

    In fact, I vaguely remember maybe reading a sci-fi short story on that very subject years and years ago...

    Sounds like something Harlan Ellison or Richard Matheson might do... when I get some time, I will look in my huge sci-fi collection and see if I can find it...

    I'll get back to you on that.

  159. Rus Hales

    In the begining, BATMAN---DC 1:36

    The Bricklayer

  160. Sparky J

    Just watched Bill Mahrs Religious... I laughed sooo hard...

  161. Scott Henthorn

    Thanks for the kudos brother Charles. Am not grinding any axes here. Just thought this might be a fun place to have a stimulating exchange of ideas. It is a sinful weakness of mine.

    I can’t remember the passage but Nietzsche wrote something like, “Nothing important is lost through translation.” Not sure I agree but that is the old philologist’s opinion.

    Sparky J,

    The post I am referring to is about 50 up from here; just before Randy put forward his new social reform platform of grinding me and my kind up into hamburger and feeding us to the homeless. Not sure how good’a eatin’ I’d be. Can I have a few weeks off to tenderize? A month in Spain with nothing to do and you can feed me to anyone you like.

    To put the point more concisely, in accordance with my brother Charles’ admonition (he is right my post is not very clear.) I tried to make two points.
    One, we all live in narratives. And these narratives are only distantly grounded in hard fact, but rather are formed from broad categories of belief.
    And, two, even if the Christian story is just make believe, as a narrative it is of a very different order than the Tooth Fairy, the Flying Spaghetti monster, or Batman. It makes for a cute jibe but this equality looks a bit foolish at a distance. It is like saying the Jonas Brothers are no different than Bach because the work of both can be printed on a music staff.

    The Carpenter

  162. Scott Henthorn

    Rus,

    My uncle was a bricklayer.

  163. Randy

    @Scott

    Listen, I stand behind my idea of using the religious-meat to feed the poor. I know it's not popular... I know it would make me a lot of enemies, but you know... desperate times, as they say...

    Please do not use Nietzsche, the very inspiriation for Hitler, whether he meant to or not, in any idea that includes my name. And remember this ancient greek saying, "Philosophy bakes no bread..."

    And yes, we all live in seperate narratives. That is why the great enlightened thinkers invented the Scientific Method. A method that is our only tool to ever discover, and more importantly, validate, "truth" (whatever that means), and you and Charles and those like you, want to throw it away and trust in invisible spirits.

    Excellent. My grinding you up for food sounds better all the time...

  164. Randy

    Here is a Randy-ism, full of Randy pomposity!

    "We are all together in a dark room, trying to 'feel' our way out. The religious say, 'Let us sit and pray and help will come'

    "The Thinkers say, 'We must clasp hands and those before must test their steps calling back to those behind the safest path...' Many who go before will fall into pits, but their sacrifices show those behind the safe paths to cross."

    Also, there is something with a cane or a stick that they tap in front of them to test the walls... that represents the tools science uses...

    Listen.. it's a whole thing... with the testing and the Scientific Method... AHHHHH! You kids...

    GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

  165. Scott Henthorn

    There is a real misunderstanding about ‘believers’ that we sit and wait for things to be done for us. Who stuffed that straw man?

  166. Scott Henthorn

    Aw Randy, there you go with your fantasy narrative again. You’re so cute with your revisionist history. Islamic scholars started the Scientific method and it was first put in practice in Europe by Christian Theists. I am not saying it cannot be used by anyone else but lets get the facts straight.Aw Randy, there you go with your fantasy narrative again. You’re so cute with your revisionist history. Islamic scholars started the Scientific method and it was first put in practice in Europe by Christian Theists. I am not saying it cannot be used by anyone else but lets get the facts straight.

    I’ll be looking for my tickets to Barcelona in the mail.
    The Carpenter

  167. Randy

    @Scott

    Interesting point.

    But, as I do acknowledge and have acknowledged on many occasions on Vlatko's magnificent site, the great contribution of the Golden age of the Great Caliphate, I must also allow the contributions of Democritus, (for whom Democracy was named), the Ionaian Nation (some 2400 years before christ) which had no gods and gave birth to thinkers LIKE Democritus...

    And all of the great scientists that came AFTER Aristotle, Socrates, Pythagoras or Plato, (all of whom Carl Sagan did not like because they DENIED the Scientific Method...), who waved a hand at religion so they would not get burned, but did NOT believe in any gods.

    (That sentence was not clear. Aristotle, et al, were bad, the people who came after were generally good... got that?)

    The Islamic and christian nations stood on the shoulders of agnostics, but the fashion of the day demanded that they proclaim some god, (or die a horrible death at your hands, frankly).

    If Darwin's ideas had been around in those days, I guarantee most of the enlightenment thinkers, of any of those times, would have much better understood what they felt... atheism.

    Most of our Founding Fathers were begrudging theists, just because they couldn't think of a better explanation. Darwin would have set them free.

  168. Randy

    ...And then you have to work backwards from there...

    I mean, you have Democritus, who was an atheist, and our governmental system was named after him.... get it?

    The Ionians, that had a working thoery of evolution 2000 years before christ, also the "Panagea" and a concept of irreducible matter, (molecules/atoms), all because they had no gods or religion!

    Carl Sagan said if they had survived the destruction of religious natons around them, we would be exploring the closest stars by now.

    That I blame on you and your kind.

    Also, the destruction of the Library of Alexandria. christianity will never, NEVER live that down in my eyes. You are guilty of lobotomizing the human species.

    Thanks!

  169. Randy

    Books are more important than people. Yes.

    Books can move the whole human species forward.

    A person is just worm food.

    Christians destroyed thousands of books at the The Library of Alexandria, books on steam engines, possible robotics (!) biology, anatomy, medicine, astronomy, history, on and on, all the things our species needed to survive, just because a woman, Hypatia, was the librarian and god said women can't be smart, plus he don't like no book learnin' no how!

    Fools. You christian really must pay for that horrible crime.

    Sorry.

  170. Achems Razor

    True stuff, Christian Monks murdered Orestes, the governor of Alexandria, who like Hypatia was a pagan (non-christian)

    The Christian monks also dragged Hypatia from her chariot, stripped her, killed her, stripped her flesh from her bones.

    Scattered her body parts through the streets, and burned some remaining parts of her body in the library of Caesareum.

  171. Randy

    @Achems

    True stuff!

  172. Rus Hales

    Scott Henthorn, I have to correct you on your statement that it was Islam that first used the scientific method. Many, many years before Islam in isolation the Chinese made significant progress in, science technology, mathmatics and astronomy, discovering/inventing and testing many scientific products still used today:- The first recorded comets,solar eclipse and supernovae were made in China along with, methane gas central heating and cooking, paper, herbal medicine, the abacus, the shadow clock, the first flying machines(kites),mechanics,hydraulics,horology, metallurgy including the blast furnace and the cupolla furnace. All invented before God split himself into three parts in order to reveal himself to some ignorant middle eastern peasants and save us all from sin.

  173. Rus Hales

    Sctt Henthorn, still waiting for the intelligent discussion, have you picked which god yet.

    The Bricklayer.

  174. Randy

    Yes, Rus, I was thinking of the Asian contributions to science even as I wrote the drivel that I wrote... but I am glad you mentioned it.

    Although my drivel tried to concentrate on the agnostic or atheist contributions, yours certainly torpedoes Scotts assertion fairly well.

    Scott, you don't need your god for science, in fact your god is very young and was made up, like, yesterday, so get over it. Human civilization, itself, is only a few days old, so... a million gods have lived and died since then, (as Rus pointed out earlier...).

  175. Rus Hales

    Hi Randy,loved your dark room Randyism, very profound. Perhaps we could start a religion on that one teaching alone.
    Then we could break into different sects on the the true meaning of the dark room Randyism, with each sect claiming they know the real meaning and proclaiming the one true Randyism. Then some could torture the others until they confess the one true Randyism. Then the others could have a holy war, to reclaim the the one true Randyism for Randy. And then we could all live toghether as one nation under Randy.

  176. Randy

    @Rus

    LMAO!!! Holy Batman! That was some funny sh*ts you wrote up there...

    No... no one should ever follow my lead... afterall, I want to grind christians and the superstitious into hamburger and feed them to the poor... that's not a good thing, right?

    I am educated, and I like really smart people, (even smart christians, although they are rare...), but I'm not a good guy... I mean, I CAN be, but mostly, I'm pretty evil.

    Just today I made an employee of mine cry, (a grown man, like 26, I think!), but he was being really dim and I do not suffer fools. I berated him and told him that he was a child for not knowing the simplest thing that any grown-up would know, (and a bunch of other cruel things), and he started crying...

    So I had to buy the little baby his favorite lunch. *sigh* I wish I could be COMPLETELY evil... and just not care...

    Anyway, I'll be dead soon enough, but not soon enough for me!

  177. Rus Hales

    Ah Shucks Randy, I thought we had found the new Messiah, still guess your right, perhaps Randyism is not the one true faith. Save me a bite of that Burger

    The Bricklayer

  178. Randy

    Well, we both know that The Batman is the one true faith...

    I mean, C'MON!

  179. Eli

    Sparky J09/22/2010 at 14:58 Eli, I have one question… Why?? I read above about your beliefs, & totally understand that it is your choice… My question is why??

    I am trying to understand your question because it does carry many implications, and does depend on who is leaving it up to God. We have a lot of power at our disposal to have to leave it all to God. How I see God is not to be dependent on him when we are endowed with intelligence, and a body to take care of ourselves. Of course we all have differing situations in life in that we are not all so fortunate and things do happen in life. I feel creation has endowed us with the tools to not have to. Maybe guidance. Look at all creation around you and learn from it. Look at the geophysicist Hawkings he still keeps going as one of the worlds best. I might not agree on all his philosophical points, but he sure is an inspiration of survival and productivity. I feel that is a fatalistic approach for those who say it is Gods will to relieve yourself of responsibilies. That is your will not Gods.

  180. Randy

    @Eli

    (If English is your second language, please forgive my merciless teasing of your comment, but, I am evil and must pick apart what you wrote... so, be prepared...)

    Eli wrote:

    "We have a lot of power at our disposal to have to leave it all to God."

    Yes. We have a lot of power. Political power. Electrical power. The power of five stainless steel blades in our disposable razors!

    Eli wrote:

    "How I see God is not to be dependent on him when we are endowed with intelligence, and a body to take care of ourselves..."

    Then... why do we need him exactly...?

    Eli wrote:

    "Of course we all have differing situations in life in that we are not all so fortunate and things do happen in life..."

    Yes. Things do happen in life. That's pretty much the definition of life, I guess...

    Eli wrote:

    "I feel creation has endowed us with the tools to not have to."

    To... not have to... what? Exactly? That was a horribly incomplete sentence.

    THEN Eli wrote:

    "Maybe guidance."

    Yes. That might be nice. Sure.

    Eli then wrote this:

    "Look at the geophysicist Hawkings he still keeps going as one of the worlds best."
    -----------------------------------
    That was nice, except Stephen Hawking is an astro-physicist and world-class astronomer, with HUGE maths skills. I'm pretty sure he could care less about geophysics. I mean, I bought him enough Arby's to know...

    I am a right b@stard, Eli, I am sorry for making fun of you, but I just couldn't resist...

  181. Rus Hales

    Hi Eli, in your post you use the term creation which indicates a creator, I assume you mean a who, and by that "God". So in any discussion of this type we need to pin down which God and which creation story. I left a list of some of the Gods in a previous post. So the starting point in any intelligent conversation would be from this point. Then if we define which God it is who is the creator, it brings up a further point of why that God and not one of the thousands of the others. Once that is established and we confirm which God created everything in a world of cause and effect, then who or what created God Ad-infinitum. But if God came from nothing, then you cannot just use that hypothesis for God, because the science and physics are there to prove a universe can come from nothing.( See Lawrence Krause a universe from nothing). Extra-ordinary claims require extra-ordinary evdence, and it is not for the non believer to disprove an extra-ordinary claim.

  182. Charles B.

    Randy wrote:

    Charles B. and I have gone round and round many times on the site. I like him, he is a sweet guy, but, HOO-BOY has he drunk of the christ-y kool-aid! He is a real born-again fundie, Pentacostal, speaking in tongues, doing a jig-for-jesus, kind o’ guy!

    He lives in South Korea, (one of the most christ-y places on the planet), married to an asian woman, has two (?) beautiful kids, a bit of a weight problem (but he is eating a lot of fiber like I recommended to him– aren’t you Charles!), and from the sound of it, he is just coming out of some revival meeting or something, because I haven’t heard him this irrational in months!"

    That was amazingly Dr. Randy! I was just dancing with my kids to some worship music right before I logged on! But I don't plan to stone or sell any of my kids now or ever, thank you very much! Likewise, no Kool-aide needed! (I'm trying to avoid the sugar). :-)

    I've been watching a lot of Sid Roth episodes actually, and tomorrow we're going on a missions outreach to the military base here in South Korea to end the Chu Seok holiday. We'll sing songs, preach, and pray for sick and for the military boys there and we're expecting to see a lot of young men touched, and perhaps even saved.

    I'm hungry to see even greater miracles and healings (even more than I have in the past) and I can say as long as there is breath in my lungs, even if I should be the very last Christian believer on Earth (which I know I won't be), then with my last breath I'll speak His name in gratitude and anticipation of what comes next: I'll see Christ in whom I have believed face to Face.

    Eli: Girl, that was uninspiring, at least for me!

    Rus: For every genuine there are always a lot of counterfits. Why don't you talk about "I Am who I Am."

    P.S.

    Dr. Randy: Eli is not fundie enough to persecute mercilessly in your cranky "evil" way! Be nice. :-)

  183. Rus Hales

    Eli, further to my last, Science's search for the origins of the universe has taken great leaps forward over the last few decades. The Large Hadron Collider is on the verge of finding the Higgs Boson particle, synthetic life with self replicating RNA has recently been achieved, there is evidence to suggest that bacterial abiogenesis is still taking place in the deep oceans and the fact of evolution is beyond doubt in all but the most deluded die hard creationist. What science doesn't know doesn't mean that God did it. In opposition there has never been a single recorded case of parthenogenesis in human beings. IN OTHER WORDS GOD IS REDUNDANT!

  184. Rus Hales

    Charles B, Quote "For every genuine there are always lots of counterfits. Why don't you talk about I am who I am". Ok I am who I am. Next question.
    I am sorry but I thought the believers wanted an intelligent conversation on the God idea.

  185. Randy

    @Charles B.

    Hello Charles, you whacky christ-lover!

    You have to know that everyone I take an interest in on this site, I remember everything they ever wrote and I create a "profile" for them.

    Then, automatically, I can't help it, I start to see their lives and who they are. It's the old con-artist-spiritual advisor, "head-game" thing that I used to run...

    You might say that I was possessed of "familar spirits" and I would say, "WHY NOT?!" I think being demon possessed would be fun.

    I mean, life can be pretty dull sometimes, am I right? A little demon possession can really, I think, liven up the day!

  186. Randy

    (Charles B. should be turning purple right now...)

  187. Charles B.

    Let me get back to you on that. If you remember everything that I write, I've taken that into account, and I try to leave you with tid-bits that you might rememeber on your death bed (which I hope is not any time soon) such as Dr. Randy, even with your last breath if you ask of Him, he will not turn you way! But why wait until your last breath! Sooner is better! :-)

    Good night. Logging off now. I left a post for you on the other thread.

  188. Randy

    hehe, I frighten Charles B.

    That is good.

  189. Sadie the Celt

    @ Randy

    Oh My God.....

    Im speechless

    ....and you're priceless!

  190. Achems Razor

    Just logged on, have to sleep, not like some of youse guses here.

    Randyism? does that mean have to convert from my "Spiderman" god?
    Well anything beats "Batman" god, which is passe.
    Need upwards mobility, not some cranky old bat in wheelchair that needs infusion of bat blood every so often.

    Randyism might cut it if allows offshoots like the Christian religions that allows 20,000 or so different offshoots of their religion.

    Ah, Charles B: must have been some major revival meetings to make you all gung ho, and dancing around the tulips, EH?
    Sid Roth?? you only say that because you know how much I dislike that holier than thou, attitude.

    Yes it is true @Rus Hales, Universe came from absolutely nothing, Hawking's says it , so must be true, can't argue with math, can we?
    A great big quantum leap from the quantum foam, caused our universe, hehehe.

    True Stuff!!

  191. Sparky J

    Dear Carpenter, reguarding narritives, why would it be rational to compare your live to a narritive?? Why do people feel that thier totally insignificant lives need to be more then the star dust they derived from?? No one is writting a novel here... If you choose to live a good life that is great... If you are ill mannered you will be shunned by your peers & maybe if you self evaluate on occasion you may have a feeling of remorse... But if you think that there is a guy in the sky that is keeping track of your every minute of existance, I think you need to get you head checked... It sounds a little neurotic and not very CristLike at all...

  192. Sparky J

    Eli, is inspiration your final answer?? The question was WHY do you NEED a GOD?? If we were in eden and everything was handed to you on a silver platter (the way it was supposed to be until the evil WOMAN f'd it up) would you think that there would be inspiration to paint a beautiful masterpiece or climb a mountian?? Inspiration is just a way to say desire without it sounding all self serving like churchiez condem... Maybe you have a GOD because your life tho may be full is somehow unfullfilling to you.... Maybe you need to self evaluate and check your priorities... You can do good deeds just because you want too... It doesn't have to be in the name of a GOD...

  193. Randy

    @Achems

    Your knowledge of The Holy Books of The Batman is so limited as to show your ign0rance!

    As we all know, The Batman, Bruce Wayne, (let us praise His name) was, indeed, broken by Bane. His spine was shattered and he fell into repose in the wheelchair. Much like Barbra Gordon, who was shot by the Joker and now is called "The Oracle" Batman's computer consultant, (What? it could happen!!!!).

    But, that was many years ago. Thanks to His advanced scientific knowledge, Bruce Wayne, (let us praise His name), was able to rise from his chair, and fight again for the down-trodden people of Gotham.

    'Course, nowadays, he might be dead, but Nightwing doesn't think so. He searches the world over looking for Bruce Wayne, (let us praise His name), WHO IS NOT HIS LOVER!!! By the way...

    Just so we got that clear...

    And there is a whole thing with the Black Lanterns and the Lazarus Pit and Wayne's skull, it gets really wierd...

    Anyways! You, Achems, no nothing of the Holy Books!

  194. Randy

    *or as I should have typed, "...KNOW nothing of the Holy Books!"

    So, there!

  195. Sparky J

    Randy, I do so like your style, tho your poor employee is probably questioning his life this morning and may be hanging from the rafters... 26 sounds like it should be grown man status but in todays terms its like 18... I hope his last meal was tasty... You said you were serving Christ Burgers right??

    As far as Chuckie Boy I do feel that he is on that whole blinded by faith thing but still has one toe hanging on to sanity... In Asia, christianity is a booming business... If you can get in there and set up shop in a cave & avoid being imprisioned you could make it big... I wonder if he is in charge of the collection plates??

  196. Rus Hales

    I think I have solved the Batman/Spiderman creation issue. Has anyone considered that Alfred, Robin and Batman are only manifestations of the one true Bruce Wayne. The Father, Son and Holy Baloney, a Batrinity. And that spiderman is only a later prophet who revealed the word of Bruce Wayne for the final time,and that the correct spelling of spiderman is --spidislam man.

  197. Sparky J

    Charlie Brown, Do you honestly like helping people?? If your answer is yes, why do you need a GOD to do it?? Why not just do it?? As I satated before & Randy clarified "Act as if NO ONE is looking"... Why do you need an audience, be it real or myth, to give meaning to your actions?? Just be the good giving person your heart tells you to be without trying to buy favor of the tri-daddy in the sky... I mean just saying it, it kinda sounds like bribery.... Like "Look at me, Look at what I'm doing for you"... If he is there he knows what your doing...

  198. Sparky J

    Bat-Trinity...LMAO

  199. Sparky J

    Ok Guys, What other documentries should I be watching??

  200. Randy

    @Rus

    Your ideology is heretical! I'm terribly sorry. I will have make a report of this to his Holiness, Commishioner (I spell badly when I am upset...) Gordon...

    OK, let me just write this down... spiderman... bat-trinity... yes.... I think I have it all now.

    You are in trouble now! Wait where you are. Soon, people will arrive... and then YOU'LL SEE!!!

    Um, not really, I mean... go about your business I guess. It's kind of a dumb religion anyways...

    *Randy kicks a can and thrusts his hand into his pockets*

  201. Rus Hales

    Jesus Randy, You are a "JOKER", I am still faithfull to the original bat teachings. I wrote "Has anyone considered", I didn't mean my proposistion to be taken as absolute truth. No one expects a Spanish inquisition.

  202. Randy

    Well, you saw Religulous, which was funny until the end when he talked about your prophecy when they bring about the End-Times... then it was a little scary.

    These people want to bring about the END OF THE WORLD! Like James Bond villians! Where is James Bond to stop them???

    Anyways, 'The Human Ape" is good, and I have many pithy comments there.

    I always recommend "Cosmos" by Carl Sagan, one of my gods, (besides Batman), but that is a time committment.

    OH! How about "The Enemies of Reason" with Richard Dawkins, I like that one! I think you will too!

    I'm just sayin' Carl Sagan

    I'm just talkin' Richard Dawkins

    Etc....

  203. Randy

    @Rus

    HAHAHAHA! Now you get.... THE COMFY CHAIR!!!

    No one expects the Spanish Inquisition! Man... laughing like a loon over here...

  204. Scott Henthorn

    Randy,

    I will have to work on some of your other claims of history. I assume your main source is Sagan who’s main source seems to be Gibbon. A cursory study on the subject of the demise of the Library at Alexandria shows that a large portion of it was destroyed by Julius Caesar in 46 BC and how large or how much of the library was left in the 2nd and 3rd centuries is unknown.

    On, neutral, sceptical source had it that the library was destroyed by the mouldering of time as much as any direct act.

    But this doesn’t fit the simplistic narrative you need to continue your narrow world view. Even if the Christian mob burned the whole damn thing, the irrationality of holding me in some way responsible for the burning 1700 years later is more proof that you live in a world of myth and mystical causality that rivals the most fundi of all fundamentalists.

    The Carpenter

  205. Sparky J

    Why thank you Randy... I think I will try Enemies of Reason being that I am a reason kinda gal...

    It is funny the statement "No one expects the Spanish Inquisition"... None the less it happened... Think we need to lower our expectations... *She gives a Halrey Quinn like giggle*

  206. Scott Henthorn

    I was writing only of the Western development of the Scientific Method, and countering Randy’s view of it as a child of the enlightenment.

    I do this because there is a revisionist history that is told from your rough camp that rivals any religious person’s narrative. It is generally an overly easy chaining of events, a simplification of causes, and a grand collecting of motives. It makes good polemic, but very bad history.

    The Carpenter

  207. Randy

    Ok, Sparky, you just mentioned Harley Quinn? The Joker's girlfriend?

    Is that who you mean from the Paul Dini, "Batman: The Animated Series"?

    Because if that's what you meant.... if I wasn't married...

    Is all's I'm sayin'

    Ok, I'll meet you on the "Enemies of Reason" site...

  208. Scott Henthorn

    Rus,

    I would be happy to discuss any God if we have the some common sources to view.

    Of course I am a Christian so I would rather talk about what I know.

  209. Randy

    @Scott

    Listen, I have heard all of this before, "OH, we didn't lobotomoize the human species... we didn't flay Haypatia alive with ABALONE SHELLS! That was these other guys..."

    Whatever, man. I guess I wouldn't want to be associated with any creepy religion that did that either.

    But use your common sense. Who would really want to strip Hypatia naked and flay her skin off of her bones and burn them, because, obviously, she was a Witch.

    Now I heard it was Islam, and that is way off the the timeline, but, I don't care, Islam and christianity is the same thing as far as I am concerned.

    And I know that every horror attributed to islamo-christianity that has ever been documented in history, you will deny. But the crimes are LEGION. And your god does nothing.

    And do not talk of communism or socialism, those are human things, like science, they are allowed to fail. What is religions' excuse, exactly? Isn't it DIVINELY inspired?

  210. Randy

    I have a comment in moderation and can not understand why, but it addresses Scott's holocaust denial of the library of Alexandria.

    To that comment, that I hope will pop out soon, I would add:

    Ceasar's Rome was not christian. Ceasar supported the Great Library, because Cleopatra loved it... and he loved her...

    There would be no reason for Ceasar's Rome to sack the library. That is a futile evasion.

    Wait till my comment comes out of moderation! You, Scott will be so scathed... it won't even be funny.

    I have PhD in World History, you know!

    (I say that, but it don't put any money in my pocket, so... kinda useless, except in debates like this...)

  211. Sparky J

    Harlean Quinzell the quarky lil psychiatrist who falls for Mr. J... Yeah, that would be the one... Love the toons... And hate to admit it to anyone over 25 I have late fees for Arkham Asylum as we speek... I don't watch TV so that is my one excape from the day to day of cleets & pompomz...

  212. Scott Henthorn

    Sparky J,

    The point is we all live in stories, narratives. This is unavoidable.

    Every time you crumble your hash into the tobacco of your spliff you recall the memory of all the previous times you have done this. You recall friends you have shared this experience with, placing this event in a storey that has no real connection to these events other than hash rolling papers tobacco and a bic lighter.

    The Carpenter

  213. Rus Hales

    Ok Scott, Quote,"Of course I am a Christian so I would rather talk about what I know". What is it that you know, or what is it that you think you know. I would rather talk about Horus, born of a virgin, whose mother fled her home town when pregnant. Was the SUN of god, came into the world to take on the sufferings of others, his birth was accompanied with a star in the east and led to Horus, followed by three kings. Little was known about his early life although he was a teacher at twelve, but at the age of thirty was baptized by a man known as Arup, thus began his ministry. Horus was known by many names, the truth, the light, Gods anoited son, the good shepherd and lamb of god, the king of kings and the Alpha and Omega. After being betrayed by Typhon, Horus was crucified, buried for three days then resurrected. Horus was a mythical figure in a story that was doing the rounds in Egypt years before jesus came on the scene. Do you want more. Because we can go through the whole list of gods and you will find a common theme in all of them. But still I guess you are sure that your version is the one true god.

  214. Randy

    @Scott

    You know I love a hash den as much as the next really high-guy, but, what the hell?

    Where did you just go?

    Carpenter? Try drug dealer, yo!

    Look out fo' po-po, mo-fo!

    (That was a sad attempt at "street" talk, as I am old, it would have been, naturally, uncomfortable for you, I apologize...)

  215. Randy

    @Rus

    Yes, of course, all of those mythologies are parallel and there are dozens more, as you indicated.

    Not to keep harping on this, but as time rolls on, the story just keeps getting updated:

    Kal'el was the only begotten son of Jor'el, the Father, and was sent to Earth to save humanity. In later issues, it was alluded that Kal'el's mother was a virgin when she became pregnant, (there was a whole gene-splicing thing).

    Kal'el was Superman, of course, and we know he is a total myth, (unlike Batman), but certainly as mythological and ALIEN as Hercules, or Perseus, or Mithras, or Crishna, or jesus, who were all "The Sons of God" blah blah, I ain't impressed...

    Again, "If the bible proves that god exists, then comic books prove that Superman exists..."

    And so do all of the holy books in every civilization that ever existed, prove that we need some PARENT looking out for us.

    You christians need to grow up and live on your own. It's ok, just be tough... you can do it!

    Or, if you can't... Burger anyone?

  216. Rus Hales

    Scott, Have you ever considered that if it wasn't for the Jews fleeing Egypt, then the Roman empire, followed by the crusades, then the British Empire. Then you might just be worshiping Horus and not Christ. And the reason I called you a Catholic in a previous post is because, doesn't the Pope declare himself to be infallible, head of the one true universal church, has a direct line to God and states that all other forms of Christianity are heretical and null and void, therefore you are a Catholic whether you like it or not.

  217. Rus Hales

    Randy carn't argue with that, so its back to the Bat cave for me.

  218. Sparky J

    Carpenter what are you smoking?? Even on the highest grade of greenery I never had that revelation... Even the LSD didn't have that effect... Are you equating spiritualism to intoxication?? Or just trying to justify your need to be playing the lead role in the book of your life... Its your life bud... Just live it... Who the heck cares if someones watching (or reading your narritive)...

  219. Randy

    @Rus

    Well you pulled out the really big guns. I could go into the whole, "Everything you think you know about christianity comes from the Holy Roman Catholic Church" as they put the only version of the bible they know together...

    And all that that implies, but lordy Batman... that is serious overkill, man...

    I mean, it's Rome or nothing... even Luther couldn't get past the Wall of Rome, because he had no scholarship beyond that! It wasn't available!

    Burger, anyone? You, Rus? You want cheese?

  220. Rus Hales

    Ride on Randy, cheese will be fine.

  221. Randy

    Christian burger... or... I do have a turkey burger, but, it's kind of dry...

    The christians burgers are pretty juicy. They just squeal when you bite 'em...

    OH! That was uncalled for! Vlatko! I hope you put that into moderation! That was terrible. I am so ashamed...

    You guys know me. Don't you think I am ashamed of that statement? Goodness gracious...

  222. Sparky J

    Mumbo Jumbo...

  223. Randy

    Sparky J,

    Indeed? What part?

    You know, those are real magic words in many African traditions...

  224. Kurrrt

    The meaning of life grows out of what we discover in our own mortal existence; it emerges in our acts of free choice, our goals and aspirations. Solutions to dilemmas and tragedies encountered in life is accomplished with a balance competing values and principles, also by the balance using self-interest with the needs and demands of others. Asking for outside dark forces (God's) for help- seems to further and deeper get us into what direction society has been going. One day everyone is going to realize that -those who brought you a hell, are the ones who make you believe in a God. Eliminate all the thought of an illogical location of a heaven and hell will surely follow... More of humanity is simply focusing all their consciousness within mankind, and becoming more human. Bringing as much peace to each day as possible is the first step in applying correct Laws of the Universe. Truthfully, not much time left to recruit among the religious followers who are among us. When the time comes they will be the first to know.

  225. Gus Hales

    Very well said Kurrrt, in the east there is the analogy of the Lotus flower. Where the bulb remains dormant in the filth and the mud and the stench at the bottom of the swamp. When the conditions are right the bulb breaks free, rises to the surface and becomes a thing of great beauty. For too long humanity has been trapped in the filth and stench of religion, time to break free, the conditions are right.

  226. Sparky J

    Did not know that Randy... I was just watching the Reason doc you recomended and that comment was used more then once and I used it...

    The part I like most on this doc I think was the David Copperfield bit... Personally I think that it was the most telling about humanity and the gullability of it...

    Of the other doc I commented there as well...

    Watching Discovering Religion as we speek... I'm liking it but the monotone it is delivered in put me to sleep for a bit & for whatever reason the guy is referencing Wikipedia... Don't people know that man can change the info in that site to what ever they like?? Thank MYSELF I learned to do my homework early...

  227. Kurrrt

    That was Dang good Mr Hales, and thanks. Others too, as well.

  228. Scott Henthorn

    Randy,

    This is a great way to fish for people’s underlying premises.

    Your predilection to stuff me as soon as you can in a box is telling. I am just asking questions I never brought up Hypatia. She likely was killed by a Christian mob. And this is a shame. I wanted to name my second daughter Hypatia but her mother did not like the sound of the name, so we gave her Thales for her second name, her mother liked the sound of that better.

    The case for the burning of the Library at Alexandria is not as clear as you present though. Caesar did not mean to burn it as far as the accounts I read show. It was an accidental result of a military strategy.

    The moderation notice comes up whenever you post a link on a comment.

  229. Scott Henthorn

    Rus,

    You quoting Jordan Maxwell or Zeitgeist?

  230. Randy

    @Scott

    Yes. The thing is, your version of history is so very much better than mine.

    Which, is co-related by Carl Sagan. Again, as Carl Sagan ain't got NOTHIN' on YOU! I really should be humbled that you "schooled" me.

    I wish I was you...

  231. Randy

    @Scott

    Also, there was no link in my comment that was in moderation. You are hallucinating.

    Apparently, Vlatko, didn't like the idea that Hypatia was flayed with sea shells... I don't know...

    The man is a mystery to me. Good for him.

  232. Scott Henthorn

    Randy,

    I just thought I’d use an example ‘Sparky J’ could relate to.

  233. Kurrrt

    Mary -Jesus's mother, was an extraterrestrial.

  234. Randy

    Yes, Kuuuurrrrt, that is true, apparently. The "Priory of Scion" as described by Dan Brown doesn't go into the the more wierd aspects of the conspiracy...

    There is a whole lizard-people, wolf-people thing going on there, that Dan left out because it was... well... SILLY... I guess.

    Oh, well.

    @Scott,

    I know you. You are one of the "good" christians. Full of love and good-will. Hardly even believe in the Devil or Hell! It's really all about goodness and opening your heart... (and the violin swells and the piano goes: "tinkly-tink" like on TV...)

    SNOOZE!

    That is not the world. I don't know where you live, but where I live, it's kill or be killed. Predator or prey. Much like Nature itself. How is it you can get around that?

  235. Randy

    I would really like to know, actually...

  236. Achems Razor

    I reread @kuuuurrrrt,s stuff 4 times, haven't a clue what he is talking about!!

    Is it just me??

  237. Randy

    @Achems

    Kuuurrrrt, is a special case. Very above us. He has special knowledge.

    Best to just let him go...

  238. Scott Henthorn

    Oh Canada. . .

    Come from the States originally. Killing is a pastime for both countries, though Canada wins for international public image.

    I don’t think we can get around it, nor should we avoid the brutality of life. To me Christianity is not about avoiding or protecting or making special. If we look at the Trial and Crucifixion we have a man who places himself in the stream of state and religious coercion and violence, who places himself in the causal stream of all the violence of kill or be killed that brought the world to that moment, and he rejects both options of fight or flight. That this narrative action has not been lived up to very consistently is to be expected. It has often enough though inspired good people to speak truth to power in peace.

    I have to wonder, if you really see life as necessarily brutal, where your strong sense of moral outrage comes from?

    The Carpenter

    (I am actually a carpenter)

  239. Kurrrt

    The complete Universal Galaxy is a hologram with life inside of it. (15 January 2009 by Marcus Chown; Magazine issue 2691) Vastly unimaginable in size looking in any direction, space. Look through a telescope and your "Is There a God" answer comes into a greater realization that Mr Big could only be forced into the imaginations of man. Going to another planet selling the one God theory may be more ridiculous then mentioning it in the first place. What non-Visible!! Perhaps some unpleasant planetary issues on earth, and human behavior problems is reason enough not to allow us off this planet in the first place.
    So, Convert to Muslim quick as you can, there's millions more of them then there are Christians, even just to live through the slaughter, convert your faith to Allah and save your self and other live's. Heck there's a wife option. They are out there and dude they are out to get you man. Muslims are commanded to fight unbelievers until they are either dead, converted to Islam, or in a permanent state of subjugation under Muslim domination. Allowing people of other faiths to live and worship independently of Islamic rule is not an option-> ( Qur'an (9:29) ; Qur'an (9:5) ; Qur'an (2:193)).. Join the big herd, when it's safe just split. You thought the Christian God was dictating evils, this Allah caricature is The Slave Master when it comes to followers in numbers. With a religious foremat aiming toward self destruct! But, I'm no expert...

  240. Randy

    If you are a carpenter, you need to get to work on my pool deck... I need the bar area to have a roof. As it blew off in a storm last year...

    Get on that.

    Listen, you brought up some interesting questions, Scott. My moral outrage comes from... well, I see animals devouring each other and I do not like it. At the same time, I know I can not stop it. I know that the World is almost 4 billion years old and it eats itself all the time.

    It is ugly. But, that is life. I try to do what I can, because I am a social mammal, like you, but life is what it is...

    You do what you can, and you have to walk away from what you can't.

    Hopefully, you get a good woman to see you through the rough spots.

    You should study the Houruborus. The serpent that eats it's own tail. It is like a medieval, European, Yin/Yang only more violent.

    That is the world.

  241. Randy

    @Kuuurrrrt

    Sweety, you are killing me with your gigantic paragraphs...

    Try to minimalize, punch it down to a few lines.

    I'm just sayin'

  242. Rus Hales

    Scott still waiting for this intelligent conversation, if that is possible with a believer. No doubt Scott you are a good Catholic if that's not an oxymoron, and like Charles B you do the happy clappy praise be to Gahd stuff, but I think by now you must be having some insight into this delusion

    Walk away from the empty Pews
    Come and hear our Atheist views
    You were not born in sin, so give us a grin
    You have only delusion to loose.

  243. Sparky J

    @Scott ~~> What??

  244. Scott Henthorn

    Rus,

    I have written a few posts on the subject. If you want to respond to any of those feel free. I do not think you have any intention of having a conversation though. And you suffer from the misconception that I have not considered your blindingly brilliant quips and insights before. If you want a real conversation, dig in. If you just want to throw stale bits of mud, you can take you aim at some other straw man.

    The Carpenter

  245. Kurrrt

    All those people have different versions of Gods in this documentry, you'd might think if one did show they'd all have a stroke. Like when a preying mantis snaches a humming bird, the bird instantly has a heart attack from shock as it's eaten.(youtube)
    Is it God thats holding back the frequency wave configuration to shatter the chrystline microbe they call AIDS? Everyone is running around trying to find a pill to cure, while all they have to do is walk in front of a machine and walk away without AIDS.(electromatic waves, Kong-Thon Tsen A physicist and his biologist son) I see a lot of God in courtrooms, those true cable tv ones, could God be the figure of speech another word for our dictators and the ones who rule over us? With them it's like kids playing "king of the hill" if they can't get you off the top you were God. The black robe rules the people of your state in personal conflict, God is still just be behind the wall never existing. or, "How to Find God" (Tyndale House Publishers). Still scanning

  246. Gus or Rus Hales

    Hi Kurrrt, If I have a thousand shirts in my wardrobe but I only wear one of them, it makes sense to get rid of most of the shirts. Your, "Could god be a figure of speech another word for our dictators" is my favourite shirt.
    Peace!

  247. Gus or Rus Hales

    Hi Kurrrt, Just an idea but perhaps it's time to clean out your wardrobe and get rid of most of your shirts.

  248. Eli

    Randy09/23/2010 at 12:23 @Eli

    (If English is your second language, please forgive my merciless teasing of your comment, but, I am evil and must pick apart what you wrote… so, be prepared..

    Don't mind some humor. I did answer on most all your replies to my quotes. Some was funny. So here goes replies on most of your comments on some of my statements.

    Just want to add, I don't know how to block certain comments to control my email clutter. so I blocked all. I will see how to fix that.

    Eli wrote:

    “We have a lot of power at our disposal to have to leave it all to God.”

    Yes. We have a lot of power. Political power. Electrical power. The power of five stainless steel blades in our disposable razors!

    I meant our intelligence and our bodies, that is what has made us be able to understand, invent, and use the above
    as I say it in the below quote you comment on. I am pretty sure you knew what I meant.

    Eli wrote:

    “How I see God is not to be dependent on him when we are endowed with intelligence, and a body to take care of ourselves…”

    Then… why do we need him exactly…?

    I never said we needed God, other than he is the creator of perpetual creation. As God's creation it is up to us to take care of ourselves. Intelligence is one of the biggest power we are given, and it is up to us to make sense of it all. Other living creatures have their given tools of survival. Some have odd behavior we don't understand, some like most mammals are similar in that they take care of their young, protect them until it is up to them (the young) once they are old enough to take care of themselves. I have not seen animals go to church, or worship God. They must survive with their given tools. And I hope you understand that tools is just a metaphor for those aspects of different physical or mental characteristics in animals that help them survive. Claws, speed, agility, strength, acute smelling abilities, poisons, etc. etc. I feel God does not govern, or think as we think he does. In other words our laws, and why things happen or don't I don't feel is exactly how God works. How many times have you heard people say the good die young, but when a mean or bad person dies young you hear, "God punished him/her". you see I don't think God does things as we feel or how we think God works his justices, or injustices, etc..

    Eli wrote:

    “Of course we all have differing situations in life in that we are not all so fortunate and things do happen in life…”

    Yes. Things do happen in life. That’s pretty much the definition of life, I guess… H

    Some of your comments make me wonder how old you are? How old are you?

    I was inferring that some of us from birth, because of disease(s), deformities, accidents, etc. and other mishaps of life, don't have it as easy or on equal terms as do others. And you probably would agree that we are not all equal to our talents etc. Thus differing situations.

    Eli wrote:

    “I feel creation has endowed us with the tools to not have to.”

    To… not have to… what? Exactly? That was a horribly incomplete sentence.

    To not have to depend solely on God for our responsiblities.

    THEN Eli wrote:

    “Maybe guidance.” Guidance to learn from what is all around us which is Gods creation.

    We always learn from all that is around us. The mistakes others make to all the things we study and learn from. Life experience or practical experience teaches us a lot. All this is part of God's creation or creations from God's creation. We learn the good, bad, and ugly of other creatures as well. The thing is to see what characteristics of other creature's behavior are good or bad for us, and hopefully learn from that. Learn from your own mistakes, the good and bad behavior of others etc. I can go on and on with this. All is part of God's creation for us to learn and Guide ourselves with.

    Yes. That might be nice. Sure.

    Eli then wrote this:

    “Look at the geophysicist Hawkings he still keeps going as one of the worlds best.”

    I laughed at myself on this one.
    Now here you got me. I do know the difference between geophysicist and astro-physicist. Don't know why I wrote geophysicist. And yes I know he is an astronomer and physicist and thus his title of Astro-physicist which is the combination of both studies. I have read on Astronomy and Hawking's work and theories were always mentioned and discussed amongst my friends who studied astronomy. That was some time back..
    ———————————–
    That was nice, except Stephen Hawking is an astro-physicist and world-class astronomer, with HUGE maths skills. I’m pretty sure he could care less about geophysics. I mean, I bought him enough Arby’s to know…

    I am a right b@stard, Eli, I am sorry for making fun of you, but I just couldn’t resist…

    NO Problem, I laughed at myself (Hawking's field of study), and at you as well, but I guess in trying to make it short I leave sentences of quotes referring to what I have said, or feel I have said enough of, or will say to make sense of those statements. I know most people my age would understand. There is really not enough you can say in a topic that touches so much. When you say God to those who believe in God you think Creator, and that covers all creation. However that would not be the same to an atheist. I do need to clear one thing I don't fall into any beliefs of God that has been used in past ancient history, or mythology. I have mentioned this before here. Gods like the Sun, or in Mythology like Zeus, Thor, Venus, Hercules etc. and so forth. They all seem to be smaller parts of a bigger picture of creation thus their mythological representations,(I hope I don't have to explain that one either}.. You probably won't see much of me here anymore, unless someone tries to make fun of my statements
    J/K.

    I have taken a completely different view of God than what I first was taught growing up as a Catholic. A better name to my view of God would be The Creator Source of all things.

    And yes I am not quite trying to write in the best of grammar here. If I checked all of yours or others here there would be a lot of critique. Sorry for that. English is my second language?, Yes and not really since I am a fourth generation US American. My parents, grandparents, and one of my great grand parents spoke both English and Spanish and are all USA citizens. I am bilingual because I wanted to speak both so I have practiced both and read and try to write in both.
    I do have a much better command of English. Believe you me I can write a lot better than I have been writing here. I hope I can just express myself here without having to be too proper in grammar. Sometimes I am in a hurry to write late wee hours of the night and don't edit my posts.

    But if that is too hard for some here well I will make the effort.

    Hasta Luego, Randy. Till Later Randy.

  249. Randy

    I am old, Eli, old enough to know better than to make fun of you... but as I said, I am a right b@stard.

    I am 57 and my life is a long a storied history of terror, political intrigue, wide awake nightmares and constant study.

    There is a mob story, a kidnapping, genetic dis-ablity... and through it all, constant study.

    I'm sorry for making fun of your writing skills. I am fully aware that I am an ass*ole, and you can call me that!

    But I hate christianity and do NOT enjoy the people that support this evil religion. I have a hard time suffering f00ls...

    That's all.

  250. Achems Razor

    @Gus or Rus:

    Hilarious, reminds me of the F-a-rting machine I took to the office once, all the women were aghast!

  251. Eli

    Randy

    I am 57 and my life is a long a storied history of terror, political intrigue, wide awake nightmares and constant study.

    Not that I don't believe you, but your above quote sounds like publicity for a book. I don't know if you write or have written about your life, but if you have not, maybe you should. You would be surprised what that does to the soul.

  252. Kurrrt

    If man can get clone goats that can produce $pider web material in it's milk bag (scientists at Nexia Biotechnologies in Quebec have bred goats with spider genes) then advanced races could create some type of whatever mysterious life form even better. Since we could be about the half-way point of creating life, or is it called doing Gods work? And then- Gods work isn't about this technology is it? Technology is an applied science, so quit playing God! Secretly humankind does get into the mix with scientist's choice of creature+DNA, ungodly or unhuman it may be, or is it the advancing of humanity? Personally if science could double the size of all the food that grows would be way cool, like how they say it grows under the planet in hollow earth, or "Sonic Bloom" everything. (Dan Carlson, Creator of Sonic Bloom (growing frequency)). God gets in the way of? Every time I go to look for God I only seem to climb through his endless trail of entrapment's. He must lie in the Cobwebs of minds.

  253. Randy

    @Eli

    I do my share of writing, but I have never been published.

    (Well, outside of college, I did have some of my papers published in some acedemic journals but... that never paid me anything, so BIG DEAL, am I right?)

    Never submitted anything, really. This is the only public place I show my stuff... and frankly, even that is often too enervating for a simple life to manage.

    The statement is true, but glib, and was supposed to be humorous. It's funny because it's true...

  254. Randy

    @Kuuurrrt

    You know, you probably read that spider-goat story on the ineternet and thought it was true and accurate.

    My study of the event shows very little verifiable evidence that any such experiment took place in Canada.

    To me, it sounds like another internet urban fantasy.

    Sheep and goats have been cloned, sure, and that could turn out to a really good thing for the world, but this spider goat...

    No... I don't think so... possible, but no real evidence.

  255. Kurrrt

    Goats produce milk through their blood. The spyder produces web material through their blood too. The web material produced from 200 goats produce the worlds supply of plenty web material. The spyder farmers use to have a problem with the spyders killing themselves, but not now. I think they did that goat web silk thing 6 years ago. Genetics in Molecular biology that they do now is unspeakable. (Playing God don't even sound right anymore) Including shooting radio-active potassium in certain parts of your fingers and watch it travel throuh your body (with using a faster pace diognistic wave machine(ultrasound)) the potassium moves towards each particular organ from each seperate part of your fingers. Your lungs are on the outside your pinky and your liver is on the thumb side your 2nd section of the index finger, located pinpointed at a 45 degree angle. But I'm no expert.(Dr. Pete Peterson is). But anyway, they are puting silk into alfalfa plants now, yup. 25% protein content. We now start to thank nature by creation. God has yet nothing to do with it.

  256. Kurrrt

    Acupuncture. The maridiums (which are not really but called that) that the radio active potasium travels through are the layers of conductive biological wraped coating within that information travels, located around every organ and up through the body, sending message to hands and feet too, (and each tooth root). Geneticly we were designed with this informational field is a found signature for the particular field that generates the chosen field, through fingers. It ID's issues on information of health of organs, allowing to solve an issue. But anyone can get this information easy, it's about FDA medical branch approving and dissaproves select professional devices which indicate this, but God want's it stoppped! So FDA is rejecting many advancements from unfolding into saving lives, once again Gods falt? NWO's falt?(Georgia guide stones 500million)or, Are they both one?

  257. Faizan Pak

    Asalam u alaikum
    Ohhhhhhhhhhh Man you are on wrong path younare asking from worng people If you really want to know what is god then Study ( DR ZAKIR NAYIK Of INDIA) his speech`s about god in every religion he will give u refrence every thing u Want

    Thanks
    MAY GOD BLESS U AND UR FAMILY
    AMEN

  258. Faizan Pak

    i hope when u study DR ZAKIR NAYIK your concept about ISLAM

  259. Gus Hales

    Hi Faizan Pak, I think you have not red the posts over the last few days, the point is most contributors don't want to know about God. Yet again another experts opinion on this mass delusion. Oh and his speech about God in every religion.
    I am sure God is there in every religion that's the controlling force that's the celestial dictator, without Gods wrath how can people give their minds to this stuff.

  260. Kurrrt

    Dr Nayik comes to a full circle with the higher power, he's still looking and shares only what he sences. It's 2010 and what isn't found in this world so far is any material evidence of God's. Should we have to look for something someone thinks is there? Knowing it isn't, the path should be dis-missed and the new path opened, and the search continued. Going with no God is better then making one up for a dictator to use laws of slavery against us. What's wrong with keeping a belief within only mankind? We each hold a part of our creator within us. Wake it up. Just mankind alone opening the higher power within the inner structure of humanity, can accomplish way more then what written Gods words have done since mans time began. Since man wrote Gods words they actually words from man himself. That's any and all religions who claims their God the worthy one. One God is too many. It's make beleif, and make believe in God, it is not what creation provided for man. Let call off the search and live, and just be good for goodness sakes.

  261. Randy

    @Gus

    You have changed your name back to "Gus"? Have you lost the faith of The Batman?

    Oh, their is terrible retribution to pay for that... you know how he will beat up a guy and hang him upside down from a roof... leaving him for the police...

    Come to think of it... that's a pretty terrible god. But better than Allah or Jehovah, I guess...

  262. Gus Hales

    Hi Randy, Crisis of faith, crisis of faith. Its ever since I saw the farting preacher video on youtube, it kinda revealed its self to me. Its as though something deep inside my guts was moving. I new this was the path for me. I mean that guy who looked like Liberace, just imagine if he had an enema after his demise, they could bury him in a matchbox. I mean this was deep and profound ripping stuff,this has to be the one true path. Man who farts sits in pew alone! I mean it's not as though I am not still a Batist, and I have a lot of respect for Bruce Wayne, but any preacher who can fill a hall with that amount of s**t has my respect.

  263. Randy

    @Gus

    HAHAHAHA! I had a hard time reading your post because of all the tears of laughter...

    Funny stuff, man...

  264. Kurrrt

    No deity will save us, we must save ourselves. We are responsible for our own destiny; we can't look outside ourselves and our society for succor or salvation. We together are able to define our own realities.
    Getting all to commit with our natural human acts of free choice, goals and aspirations is the key to unlock our freedom. This would be real simple -without the controlling dark forces of Gods and the illogical followings restricting us from doing so.
    Step away and restrain from purely ego-centered interists. Deliver a positive ethical message that has significant pragmatic consequences for human culture. No written about God allows this movement to progress in bible writtings, or real life. (yes dark forces are always involved in asking for Gods,(and please don't drink the cool-aid). Step out of the religious box- turn back to it, and look what you have done to humanity through Gods work. Re-gain focus onto mankind alone and fixed consciousness will be your guide to freedom. That is human nature, the focus on God(s) is human behavior gone astray.
    Many many good days of peace to all!

  265. Gus Hales

    Hi Folks,
    Things seem to be a bit quiet on the Oh my God site, these days. Perhaps all the God follows are away praying. Been away myself, thought I would go on a retreat and try to find God, but alas found nothing. Did ask about Jesus, but the caretaker said, he didn't look very well, and he was here for three days and had to shoot off somewhere, but they are expecting him back shortly. Spent a week praying for world peace, didn't seem to make much difference though.

  266. Randy

    @Gus

    Yes, sir! Listen, you have some pretty terrific brains...

    Let me give you a hug... Uncle Randy is hungry...

  267. sandeep

    well done,
    but missing thoughts from 'Gita' (Krishna and Arjun)

  268. Gus Hales

    Hi Randy,
    Great to hear from you again. I miss all my 'Oh My God' mates
    I am sitting glued to the Web, waiting for the first of the Chilian miners to come to the surface. No doubt the first words uttered will be God has saved us. Forget the drilling teams, forget the mine specialists, forget the engineers, scientists, doctors, nurses, para medics and people of the world. God will take the credit, but think about it, he has had the power to have pulled them out at any time, but chose not to, but still takes the credit. What an over inflated ego centred windbag this God is!

  269. Kurrrt

    "God is dead, and no one cares". (Nine inch Nails)

  270. twig

    AWSOME!!! We need reminders like this(easy to forget during an average day) that there is hope for us. We will overcome thrue Love. We can have bad times and still chose to love, we are not hypocrites we are human.The best thing I got from this film was when the person said the different religions are the different ways different people express there connection with God what a perfect explanation of the different paths to the same place.Love to all.

  271. Syke Delyk

    I keep wondering if in every religion god is a he instead of an it and why is this? Are all translations right? This bothers me, making religions a tool of men using god as mens image, not women, or nature, etc... After watching this documental i will say Buddism makes more sense than any other. Is more natural. When i was growing up in the spanish culture of the catholic church (all latinamerica and latin countries, as Spain, Italy, etc...) we were tought that human are "rational" animals. In other words, animals. I do believe that we are, but not very rational at all. God is a human invention made of our ignorance of ourselves and as a tool (excuse) to destroy and take all we can from nature and other men, etc...

  272. Gus Hales

    Syke delyke, you got it, easy answer to your wondering- there is no God, never has been never will be- The reason Buddhism makes sense to you, is in Buddhism- "There is no God never has been, never will be".
    PEACE!

  273. Scott Henthorn

    @Syke Delyk

    "God is a human invention made of our ignorance of ourselves and as a tool (excuse) to destroy and take all we can from nature and other men, etc..."

    Though the first part of this contraction may be true what is the evidence of the last part? Is it textual or historical? Is this the only purpose of God’s invention, or is it just one of the purposes?

    The Carpenter

  274. Hesus

    @ Scott

    Problem arises when people think that their "reasoning" is godsent. It can literary justify murder. And NO it is not our purpose to destroy but rather to survive. It is not gods law but a natural law.

  275. Gus Hales

    Scott Henthorn, welcome back I've missed you. Your post is brilliant, utterly fantastic and had me rolling on the floor with laughter.
    Do you realise what you have written; quote,"Though the first part of this contradiction may be true what is the evidence of the last part"?

    You said contradiction, brilliant! and did you say EVIDENCE!, let me say that again, Did you say EVIDENCE. When have the God squad ever been interested in evidence. You say is it historical or textual. Perhaps like you and your God idea, it's just a matter of faith my son, it's just a matter of faith.

  276. Scott Henthorn

    Aww Gus,

    I missed you too.

    I actually wrote ‘contraction’. Though I’m glad you had a good laugh.

    Not sure what to do with you comment on evidence. It is such a convoluted bit of polemic and logic I am not sure it makes any sense. I guess you are creating a new logical fallacy, “guilt by any means of possible association.”

    My question for evidence was for Syke’s historical claim. “God is a human invention made of our ignorance of ourselves and as a tool (excuse) to destroy and take all we can from nature and other men, etc…” This is not a statement of faith or opinion; this is a statement of fact. And as such needs evidence to be falsified or verified.

    I suppose my crazy ass hillbilly cousin Tony has damaged our rep around here too much for any of us to be taken seriously.

    Oh well,

    The Carpenter

  277. Gus Hales

    Kinda got me there Scott, the old eyes not what they used to be-Contraction not contradiction, I think that was my eagerness to jump down the throat of a believer, it was a complete lack of mindfulness, must do better next time. Anyway moving on, after careful scrutiny and microscopic investigation, that word evidence still rattles my cage. For years I have been told the bible is the word of God, absolute truth and unalterable, so I kinda feel ok show me the evidence, but then I am told it's not to be taken literally, ok then I can accept that, then to use your favourite word its a narrative. So I get confused, then when all is doing my head in, I let out this huge primordial scream and shout show me the evidence, only to gain the reply like yours "this is a statement of fact and as such needs evidence to be falsified or verified. Excuse me but can you see how us, heathens,atheists, kafirs, goys, infidels and philistines may just get a tad confused. If your God requires no evidence then why does anything need evidence.

  278. Scott Henthorn

    Gus,

    There are subtle historical forces at work in how you in some Protestant tradition were taught the view of Scripture you express, “the bible is the word of God, absolute truth and unalterable.” But this is not the place to get into that. Often this notion is used to defend some kind of human power, authority or interpretation, when in truth it should instill humility.

    I don’t think it is true that belief in God requires no evidence. Though it will be different kind of evidence than say why an electrical current can separate H2O into H and O. And it will never amount to a solid proof as simple elemental claims like the one above. Even here the ‘that’ and the ‘why’ of electrolysis separating molecules may be quite distant. And current theories as to why will likely need to be clarified with further knowledge in atomic and sub atomic theory, but that H ad O are separated is undisputed.

    It seems that Theology and lived faith are exercises in ‘Why’. Properly understood the same evidence must be made sense of by Theists and Atheists alike. Though only either God or Not-God are the factual case of the world (both cannot be true) in the area of human discourse both positions remain theoretical discussions of the evidence. And neither is demonstrable by proof.

    So I cannot exist outside the realm of evidence just because I posit “God” rather than “Not-God”. If I make wild historical or measurable claims then I need evidence to support these claims for them to be useful descriptions of the actual world. Otherwise they are just polemic ranting.

    “People only believe in God because they are afraid of death, and drag us all into their fear-laden fantasies.”

    “Atheists don’t believe in God so they do not have to be accountable to any moral code, and so corrupt our social order.”

    Both of these are claims about the world. Both are broad polemic summations that are not substantiated by a thoughtful survey of actual opinions, and motives. Still, variations of both are used ad nauseum on this and other sites.

    The Carpenter

  279. Gus Hales

    Yes Scott guess you are right again, this version of the buybull that says the "unalterable word of God", is Truth, is dependent on the brand that I follow. So which brand is the right brand?
    Got to pick you up on this one Scott---Quote, "Atheists don't believe in God so they don't have to be accountable to any moral code". Sorry Scott but I am accountable to a moral code and that is my intuitive awareness. Far superior to any God of the buybulls code, far more moral than this vane, malicious, pernicious, vindictive, murderous and morally bankrupt character. So Scott if its evidence you need of the true nature of this fictional God then its all there in the buybull.

  280. Scott Henthorn

    Again you are not reading me carefully enough. I was being critical of the simple polemic statement,

    “Atheists don’t believe in God so they do not have to be accountable to any moral code, and so corrupt our social order.”
    That is why it is quotes. This is a common quote made by ignorant theists.

    I will past the last bit of the post to put it in context:
    “People only believe in God because they are afraid of death, and drag us all into their fear-laden fantasies.”
    “Atheists don’t believe in God so they do not have to be accountable to any moral code, and so corrupt our social order.”
    Both of these are claims about the world. Both are broad polemic summations that are not substantiated by a thoughtful survey of actual opinions, and motives. Still, variations of both are used ad nauseum on this and other sites.
    The Carpenter

  281. Gus Hales

    Hi Scott, Kinda a feel your doing that esoteric thing where my version of the delusion is the real version and the rest are just others opinions, because I know, that is not a polemic. This is a typical response, which always avoids the question, so I say again which brand is the true brand.

  282. Scott Henthorn

    Gus,

    I might enjoy an exchange here with you, but not if you cannot get out of the polarity that this conversation often locks into.

    My point in the two quotes is they sum up the polarity well. I do not believe either statement is true, and are just means of polemic quarantine to keep us from actually listening to the opposing side.

    I am a Christian. But, of course that statement is not proof of anything. My reasons for coming to this choice are long and varied and cannot be summed up in a few sentences here.

  283. Gus Hales

    Hi Scott, Once again you go off on a tangent. You said in a previous post. "This is a common quote made by ignorant theists". My question is what special knowledge do you have that makes you a non-ignorant theist? what is this sublime knowledge and insight that you have and others don't? Where did you get this knowledge from? Why is your brand of Christianity the truth but not the other versions? When you say "I am a Christian", where or what is the I am? other than a set of ideas you have about yourself from your cultural conditioning. These are questions that THEISTS never answer. Not believing in a God myself I would never use the term ignorant atheist because their views may differ from mine. In your use of that term you have set yourself up as the one who knows, so what is this esoteric knowledge you have? These are perfectly legitimate questions, that I ask, why should your God single you out but not me? More confused than ever

  284. regino g. ong

    GOD is a three-letter word in the English language which people who do not know, yet claiming and pretending to know or deludedly- knowing, use to explain to those who also do not know everything we do not know about us and everything around us.

  285. Gus Hales

    Hi Scott,
    The silence is deafening. Same old story I am afraid, as soon as a theist/believer is asked any question that challenges the delusion, the result is silence making it impossible for debate and making it impossible for any further understanding by a non-theist. Therefore one can only conclude that believers not only live in delusion but are also in denial

  286. Fuzzy Dunlop

    I'm a Deist and think it's obvious that the universe is the result of being 'created' in one way or another. Who knows just how complex it really all is?
    But I have to laugh at non-believers accusing others of being in denial. Somebody who opens their eyes and observes the order, patterns and the mathematical structure of the universe believing it all just came about by chance are IN MY OPINION so far in denial it's actually scary.
    We think we are evolving yet we are further and further removed from God with each generation. I also think that has been done to us on purpose.
    Finally just brcause somebody can't answer a question doesn't mean their core belief is wrong. There's nothing wrong with not having all the answers and not actually knowing the full extent of things. The problem with religions is that it's like a package that's all wrapped up for you and I personally think it's better to not really know but to keep on thinking and questioning and making your own evaluations of it all.
    Two years ago I was an atheist who couldn't fathom things like God. I then asked to be shown and over the space of a year gradually became a believer from various events and information that came into my life.
    There is nothing to say though that it wouldn't be possible for me to change my belief again though as I continue to ponder different aspects of it all.
    Atheists and people who follow religions all seem locked in to a mentality that only binds them - Atheists in the same way as any other belief system. Plus they are so eager to tell you. They CAN'T just let people who believe in God get on with it. They HAVE to mock them and say blanket statements towards people they have no idea about regarding their beliefs.
    But never mind. I mean I was and so easily still could be one of them, but something changed.....

  287. Gus Hales

    Fuzzy Dunlop, Yawn, here we go again I believe because I believe because I believe. If you care to look or investigate, belief is just the result of not bothering. Not bothering to find out or inquire into how all this works, the reason the scientific model works is because some people do investigate they do inquire. It is only science that ever comes up with provable, testable answers whether we like those answers or not. To throw in the towel and declare God did it, is nothing more than denial

  288. Mindaugas

    The author was very fortunate to meet and interview so many nice and wise people. Except for Bob Geldof, of course :)

  289. jay monosaccharide

    This was an excellent documentary, it really got my head spinning. It is funny though, that almost all of the interviewees ere truly unsure of themselves in their explanation of their religion. It is a very touchy subject that people are to afraid to question, but i think more people should realise that some of these explanations do not make any sense at all

  290. Gus Hales

    Hi Jay, non of it makes sense its all made up, a mass delusion. Still no evidence for any God or supreme being. The God idea is a refuge for those who just cannot accept the fact that one day they will have to grow up and put down childish things.

  291. jack1952

    There are as many Gods as there are people that believe in him. I, most fortunately, have had the real God revealed to me. Its an amazing feeling. To think that of all those believers, only I know the truth. I can't believe that I could be so deserving. God bless all those who are not as deserving. See how magnanimous a religee can be.

  292. The Loner

    To me, God is IS.

  293. Gus Hales

    Well done Loner for that profound statement, To me God is IS, means nothing its woowoo religious and spiritual claptrap jargon. To me the Sun is IS, but at least we know the sun is there.

  294. Kurrrt

    Can't argue with Gus one bit. My take on it is (a hair deeper (don't tell Randy-I don't want to be eaten)), the part of whoever created us- this small part of our creator within us that's also coalesced within all humanity, and (if) all mankind focused together on this part of our creator, it's the closest one can be to something that resembles our highest power. This- at least, sends the greatest truth. A truth within us all. But illogical Gods put up all these barriers, and divides man from a focus we need on ourselves as a human race. God restricts us from knowing our potential, and it's alive and within us all, most don't even know it's there. God (mans God) couldn't control you if you knew about your truths. The truth is actually within all of us, not outside of us.
    Followers of mans invented God(s) created an outside belief (outside of humanity) of an illogical invisible entity who forces us to survive by sending man fear and a hell (masked by love and kindness)+(The Obey me or I'll send you to his hell thing) and certainly threatens mankinds journey to evolve. None of the invented Gods allow man to focus on mankind alone. They (Dictator invented Gods) know about and fear this feature we posess, and will do anything to restrict it from being discovered. This focus is honest and true and doesn't send man wondering aimless or even looking elsewhere. (St. Augustine was right!). It resumes an honest course of being even more human then you were in the first place. Starting is easily done by droping any and all outside Gods, and simply being kind, and bring as much peace to each day as possible, and in harmony with everyone on earth. The Gods that man brought to you in Dark Age history books or bibles, have also brought you your hell, it's so easy to simply allow that horrable thought to vanish. I'm not the expert on any of this, it's just sharing a thought.

  295. brian

    I was at this time of living, like so many Atheists or Anti-theists, in a whirl of contradictions. I maintained that God did not exist. I was also very angry with God for not existing. I was equally angry with Him for creating a world.No philosophical theory which I have yet come across is a radical improvement on the words of Genesis, that 'In the beginning God made Heaven and Earth'.

  296. Gus Hales

    Hi Brian,
    Unbelievable, I had to read your post twice. First with astonishment and then with great pity for you. This is what you wrote; "NO PHILISOPHICAL THEORY WHICH I HAVE YET COME ACROSS IS A RADICAL IMPROVEMENT ON THE WORDS OF GENESIS, THAT IN THE BEGINNING GOD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH." That's it then lets close down all the science labs, sack all the philosophy professors, burn all the books by Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, Hegel/Marx, Nietzsche,Sartre and Russell, because after all God did it. Have you actually read Genesis with its vicious petty malicious revenge on the human species for being nothing more than inquisitive and the barbaric punishment that came with it. Are you aware of the untold suffering and misery caused to the animals that we share this planet with, because of a few lines in this vile book. Have you any idea of the effect that the concept of original sin has had on the minds of millions. I suggest you go back to Genesis and this time read more than the first ten words.

  297. GrittyKat

    Thanks Loren, the links worked and I was able to watch this video which I must say was one of the best I have seen.

  298. goldenboy11

    If you were an athiest, how were you angry at god for not existing or creating a world. definition of athiest -a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being or beings. How could you be angry at something that you supposedly didn't believe in?

  299. Enki85

    The creation story and tales in the book of Genesis were originated in Sumer 2,500 year before biblical era and it came us unedited in concrete proof etched in cuneiform writings whereas the bible been altered continually./

    Christianity stole the creation story from another source, and the book of Genesis is just a fail attempt at rewriting historical facts.

    Hail Enki ;3

  300. James

    Hi Gus- for sure 'vicious and petty' are appropriate but now that the New Testament mentality of 'turning the other cheek' has been incorporated and actually lived out by Jesus and many of the followers, could it be that a re-evaluation of the power of LOVE/CHARITY is long overdue?
    Just wondering again

  301. James

    Hi Brian- now that the New Testament mentality of 'turning the other cheek' has been incorporated and actually lived out by Jesus and many of the followers, could it be that a re-evaluation of the power of LOVE/CHARITY is long overdue?
    Just wondering again

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