SciShow: Chemistry

SciShow: ChemistryHank talks about a shiny element that has fascinated humans for millenia; and everyone's favorite squeaky-voice gas and why it's important for more than party balloons.

Why our love affair with the rare earth elements has a dark side; and the awesomeness of the periodic table and the genius of the man who invented it.

A sweet-tasting substance we humans just love - where it comes from, why we need it and how we could maybe stand to love it a little less.

Hank delves into the details about that very popular substance: caffeine; the story of his favorite genius lady scientist and radioactive superhero, Marie Curie; and the high fructose corn syrup - the new "dark lord of nutrition" - to help explain the ambiguities around all the claims being made about it.

Hank explains the science behind the effects of that wackiest of weeds, cannabis sativa - aka marijuana; and the man behind the periodic table - the brilliant Russian chemist Dmitri Mendeleev.

Other SciShows: Infusion and Dose. Other Crash Courses: Biology and World History.

Watch the full documentary now (playlist - 47 minutes)

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Ratings: 7.45/10 from 11 users.
  • Joao Sousa

    I would love to see an episode on hemp, its oil and fibre.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mercenarry-ForHire/100000621480223 Mercenarry ForHire

    I liked it :D

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Krisfalusci/100000457306764 John Krisfalusci

    hemp is illegal and so is weed, enough with the stupid facts on this. it is toxic and causes crimes. we dont want it nor do we want to hear about it. It is just as bad as alcohol and/or tobacco and has no use for us on Earth whatsoever!!

  • Malchik

    Speak for yourself, John.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002252947596 Robert Andersson

    it is not toxic, it cures cancer, it doesnt cause crime, it prevents crime. its a medicine.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Krisfalusci/100000457306764 John Krisfalusci

    are you r*tarded?! it is toxic, kills brain cells and did u know all of those crinimals in jail are in because of marijuana and other crimes related to it. stop trying to spread false information. we dont need it and we have to continue to ban it. it is illegal for a reason and lets keep it that way. it is NOT a medicine. this stuff kills...

  • fnertz

    This way of presenting something "for kids" - jerky handmovements, flashing graphics, interrupted thoughtpatterns, spelling with words in realtime what is being said, everything with a postmodern "laugh" - nothing is serious; I believe this actually c a u s e s ADHD!

  • IsraelAli76

    Awesome.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_F3VB6OQ6SK7P234XBW5RG7BQRY harry nutzack

    entirely too abbreviated on all subjects. 3 minutes is really too little time to devote to a scientific point of interest. the host's delivery is kind of all over the place, but it was entertainingly semi-informative. were these produced as a sort of "teaser" for science classes in middle schools? if so, they seem just about right, but i still prefer the slightly less rapidfire pace the university of nottingham did on their series' like "60 symbols", which touched on each subject with a bit more depth. all in all, enough to stimulate interest, which i assume was the point of the series.

  • Jack1952

    There is no evidence that it cures cancer. I know people, one a very close friend, who smoked the weed all their adult lives who died of cancer. If it such a good cure, why didn't it cure them. Pot can be a God send for those under going chemo as it relieves nausea and can help to increase the appetite. Inhaling smoke into your lungs cannot be good for you, however. If pot smoke is good for you then it is the only smoke of any source that is good for you.

    Pot does not cause the damage to society that alcohol does. Pot seems to make most people more docile and therefore helps to prevent violent crime to a certain extent.

  • dmxi

    the way you chose to deliver your understanding of marijuana gives me the feeling, that you have shortly stopped consuming the mentioned products of that plant ?honestly now,mmh?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Krisfalusci/100000457306764 John Krisfalusci

    Nope I am drug free, i dont even drink any caffeine, no pills no alcohol, no sugar, no nothing. I am tired of this medical mumbo jumbo about marijuana, hemp, whatever its called. It is another excuse to brainwash us with poison. It has been illegal for a reason for the past century or so and lets just move on and talk about useful things we can continue to discover k? ^_^

  • dmxi

    i have fullest respect for the straight edge philosophy but foremost for your light-hearted response.still,making 'weed' consumers to full blown criminals is beyond me!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Krisfalusci/100000457306764 John Krisfalusci

    Think about it, if you look at the statistics almost all the prisoners in jail are because of marijuana related offenses, and almost all the addiction clinics across America is marijuana related. There is no significant side to this medical marijuana idea. If we continue to ban this and set even more harsher restrictions this will make it go away. it causes all sorts of problems that alcohol and tobacco does and maybe even worse. Because of this state lawside legal medical garbage, we now have more problems than ever before. We dont need it!

  • dmxi

    au contraire,mon ami !i'm tired of debating this,that's why i emphasize you check the comments in related 'weed','grass',etc topics,due to everything has been said there!i do not have the time or power to change your mind as it is already been made.
    yours sincerly............& au revoir!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_M6F3RJVEWJ24QKMCHFNVK7ADVE Winston Smith

    people have been smoking cannabis for thousands, possibly tens of thousands,, of years. Tens of millions of Americans smoke it on a regular basis. It is also smoked all over the world and part of the cultural heritage in many places. It is patently absurd for it to be 'illegal.' If you dont wish to smoke, then don't. But dont impose your views on everyone else! The reason it is illegal is because it was not as widely used when the drug laws were passed You notice (the more destructive and addictive) alcohol was not outlawed at that time. Why? cultural heritage. There have been many things throughout history that were illegal that should not be so. And many that were legal (like slavery) that should not have been. So legal standing means nothing.
    Drugs/alcohol are not the problem. Addiction is the problem and that is not going to change legal or otherwise. Addiction is a health issue not a criminal one. (Only 1 in 8 people who use hard drugs will become addicted. So clearly there is something different in this group. Marijuana is not considered a hard (class C) drug for good reason. It isn't one!

  • Warren Dovey

    such a close minded view no objectivity you are a clone a perfect docile product that believes propaganda and lies...I think that the truth is people like you have no use for us on Earth whatsoever!!

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/ZPEM2M5NJZULSIUL42WBMRU6VE Maha

    Doesn't he look like Douglas Fargo off Eureka!! Hahahahahahaa

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Krisfalusci/100000457306764 John Krisfalusci

    We live in a civilized society today because we don't smoke weed. That is the reason for our technological advances because this stuff kills brain cells and causes premature death. That is why the past is associated with 'crude' and 'ignorance'. On top of that, We do not need another drug because we have alcohol and tobacco to deal with. This whole medical marijuana garbage is another lame excuse for these drug addicted, hungry people to satisfy their pathetic appetites. Please... this stuff is illegal and dangerous for a reason let's just discover more things that are not toxic and deadly to us. That is all I want and I am pretty sure the rest want too. Trust me.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Krisfalusci/100000457306764 John Krisfalusci

    Think about it, all statistical data says that criminals in jail = marijuana, and all drug addiction clinics across america = marijuana, facts do not lie and this is more proof we need to ban and eradicate this stuff and set even more harsher penalties so this problem will go away forever.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mathew-Scannell/516928497 Mathew Scannell

    thats pretty hard line. nothing is that simple and since weed is illegal it would stand to reason that people in prison are in contact with it. i think you need to learn more about the subject before voicing an opinion which, although entertaining, is a massive oversimplification of "the drug problem" not to mention human development.

    p.s the statistics also seems to say that most people, love the weed! trust me

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mathew-Scannell/516928497 Mathew Scannell

    really need to point this out clearly, the reason that people in prison for marijuana related crimes got there is because marijuana is illegal. the fact that a law says something is wrong does not make it wrong. before you get confused think about slavery laws, gay rights and abortion. abortion is legal and yet many people call it murder, the world is full of grey areas.

    also maybe you should talk to someone with MS who has found the only medicine that helps them, i think then you might see things a little differently about the "not medicine" thing too.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Krisfalusci/100000457306764 John Krisfalusci

    Mathew, you really expect me to believe that the reason people in prison for marijuana related crimes is because marijuana is illegal? That is one of the most ridiculous reasoning I have ever heard. That is like saying people are alcoholics because it tastes good. The reason why marijuana is illegal is because it is toxic and harmful, it causes crime and murder and that is the reason why most of the prisoners = marijuana and crime related. If you are going to make a valid point, please put some thought and sense into this because you are making a fool out of yourself... this further shows that this stuff dumbs people down and we are headed for a violent future, I really pity the youth of our generation. I'm sorry!

  • Robyn318

    "criminals in jail = marijuana'

    More criminals in jail have had sex too, should that also be outlawed? Some people have addictive personalities; if it isnt drugs it is work, shopping, gambling, sex, alcohol or overeating. By having a Federal prohibition on hemp we are not benefiting from its positive attributes like a very durable fabric that outlasts any other common fabric on the market and hemp seed oil production would greatly reduce our dependence on foreign oil. Outlawing pot does not make it inaccessible, nor does it deter it use, but it does negate the utilization of these constructive benefits.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Krisfalusci/100000457306764 John Krisfalusci

    Sex has nothing to do with marijuana. That is basic for human survival. Marijuana is not. you are completely missing the point. This drug along with heroine crack cockaine meth, even alcohol and tobacco causes more pain and suffering to human misery than we ever imagined, simply put we dont need it! yes! All of these drugs MUST be outlawed! Get it right.

  • http://www.facebook.com/mr1derfl Matt Hill

    You're a dumbass John! Enough said.

  • http://twitter.com/Demoorelizer Dylan Moore

    They're already outlawed dumbass.

    And you cannot argue that the sex crimes such as rape and abuse have anything to do with human survival or procreation; and if you do you're a sick waste of stem cells.

  • http://twitter.com/Demoorelizer Dylan Moore

    Yeah screw the scientists and doctors who went to prestigious universities for lengths most likely 2-4 times what you did and spent their lives to bring forth unbiased and scientific research!

    Look seriously, you can be as f***ing ignorant of the facts as you want, and use other facts in a different context to justify your opinion , just doing try and brainwash other people like what you're doing by suggesting an option that has been tried and ruled EXTREMELY ineffective and harmful to the majority of the population (being stricter policy).

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Krisfalusci/100000457306764 John Krisfalusci

    Insulting someone doesn't get your point across. What does sex have to do with marijuana? Remember, weed kills brain cells and its even more proof that this stuff is dumbing down america at an amazing rate. Please try to understand my valid arguments on the continuation of making marijuana illegal instead of trying to change the subject because you are honestly wasting our time.. LOL

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Samuel-Morrissey/627791008 Samuel Morrissey

    Oh dear, john. Looks like we need to get ProudinUS to re-iterate the lessons you have failed to learn. Now you post a blatant lie, 'Weed' does not kill brain cells in fact there is no amount of THC that is lethal, unless you happen to be stood under a 1000Kg block of it dropped on your head. There are 0 recorded fatalities, or brain damage attributed to 'weed' so I call you out here, where is your evidence?

    You are a troll, pure and simple. Quite why and how you have turned this comments section about a CHEMISTRY documentary into your personal ignorance soundboard is beyond me. Talking about changing the subject indeed.

    Ever eat risen bread john?
    Ever eat chocolate?
    Ever drink tea or coffee?
    Breakfast cereals?

    These things along with a great many others contain DRUGS john, masses of them. Oh, and get this, your brain doesn't need drugs, because your brain is a drugs factory, and on that basis by your reasoning we should make your brain illegal. Hmmm, I'm inclined to agree with you in this case.

    Regards, Sam.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Samuel-Morrissey/627791008 Samuel Morrissey

    Love this series, The guy is a little weird and wired but presents in a fun way.

    Regards, Sam.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mathew-Scannell/516928497 Mathew Scannell

    well ok try and think this through now john, if weed was legal and i was stopped by a policeman who found i had some one me i would not go to prison which would make me not a criminal! however because it is illegal i would go to prison and that makes a criminal. that is a really simple thing to get your head round right? ok. so now try to think about this, more harm is caused by the law against marijuana than marijuana itself and produces more "criminals" in the eyes of the law than we can handle and therefore keeping it illegal is totally sensless. you don't understand my point and thats ok i wouldn't expect you too but you should realise that you are a big example of the crude and ignorant person from the past that you spoke of, luckily though your old way of thinking is slowly dieing out. the sooner the better. you have quite blatently made a fool of yourself by entering into an argument knowing absolutely nothing about it! your spouting the same old information that the american government did in the 40's/50's and onwards, maybe read some independent research on it? or not and just continue spouting hate.

    i'll give you the benefit of the doubt on one thing, organised crime does result in murder, in the same way that prohibition caused people to murder. weed doesnot. i must stress this, the prohibition laws CAUSED the crimes. in that sense weed could be said to cause murder but only since it is supplied by people who are by definition criminals. also should be said that a lot of criminals are in prison due to alcohol related crimes, that is an example of a substance being a cause of the crime, no one ever got stoned and killed someone.

    you cannot police free will, at least not in the west where freedom of information is so readily available.

  • AntiTheist666

    @Samuel Morrisey

    Bravo Sam, a sublime example of how to make a point when dealing with a know nothing troll. As put downs go, it’s one of the best I’ve seen in ages. Congrats

    The Crucified One

    PS Is that some grass in your avatar? lol

  • AntiTheist666

    Fast, furious, factual and fun.

    As a sweet toother l found the episode on sugar quite a rush.(I bet Hank did). I’ve had to give up caffeine recently so I enjoyed that bit also. The cannabis part featuring insects and animals on drugs was just lol stuff.

    Enjoy

    The Crucified One

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Krisfalusci/100000457306764 John Krisfalusci

    For me to sit here and read that weed does not kill brain cells shows more proof that you probably smoke this drug yourself. You should be in jail honestly.
    I do not eat bread, I dont eat chocolate, I dont drink caffeine, and no cereal. I dont eat meats either.... if ur point was trying to say these are drugs too ur wrong. Marijuana causes cancer and premature death... THESE DONT. id**t... And you are right, your brain doesn't need drugs so lay off the pot! I don't know why I even bother lol.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Krisfalusci/100000457306764 John Krisfalusci

    Weed will NEVER be legal because its toxic and causes cancer plain and simple. Your 1st sentence alone was countered without me having to read all of that other nonsense. If you are a pot smoker, you should be in jail really...

    If marijuana were legal or even was thought even ONCE to be legal in the past, then dont you think any of the past presidents and/or congressional leaders would have noticed this?
    We learned at school that this stuff kills, all of the government officials tells us its dangerous, even the bible says its poison, so it is CLEARLY dangerous, no debating!
    Enough of your nonsense seriously...

  • Guest

    LOL....Nothing like a good funny comment to start the day!
    Yours is effective this morning!
    az

  • AntiTheist666

    @Azilda

    Good morning Az

    It’s 3.30 in the afternoon here. (UK) Glad you liked it. Perhaps it was made by a Canadian?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Samuel-Morrissey/627791008 Samuel Morrissey

    Yet another bunch of lies. Where are you getting your info? Weed is not toxic, and weed does not cause cancer. It was legal everywhere in the early part of last century. Incidentally, pure refined opium (heroin) is not toxic either.

    I'd ask you to link 1 study that shows a correlation between use of cannabis and cancer, but it would be futile as there isn't a single one. Funny, though there are several that strongly suggest beneficial pharmaceutical properties.

    You learned lies at school, you heard lies from politicos, you read lies in a fairy tale. Now you repeat those lies without ever questioning the fact that they are lies. They're not even your lies, john. Why not come up with an original one? How about - my grandma looked at a weed plant once and her head fell off! no, seriously....

    Trolololololololololol.

    Sam.

  • Guest

    I've seen a stoned spider ot two in my life. Ever heard of the Kootenay's green buds, or commonly called BC buds?
    az

  • dewflirt

    Comedy science, yay ! Still won't stick in my brain though :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Krisfalusci/100000457306764 John Krisfalusci

    So you're trying to tell me the school system is a phony? The very important politicians and governments and even the President who protect America are phonies? And even the BIBLE is phony? Samuel, you're delusional... you wouldn't know right from wrong seriously, ur out of ur mind.

    If weed was safer than what it was intended to be then this stuff would have been accepted decades ago, but its not so its dangerous. So please stop trying to spread bad information k? It's not worth it...

  • dewflirt

    Hey, you know the Trololol song!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mathew-Scannell/516928497 Mathew Scannell

    first off i should say well done for staying away from many toxic chemicals that are flooding society in the present day, your body is a temple john and i am truly impressed with the will power of anyone who can stay away from all the fun stuff nature has to offer us. that being said....

    look man i have not once said that i smoke it or that i endorse it. you really are not thinking this through or hearing what i'm saying at all so this will be the last time i reply to your close minded statements.

    getting away from weed i wanted to pick up on something else you said. you say you want all recreational drugs including alcohol and nicotine to be illegal (i'm gonna include all opiates and caffeine in that statement too sorry if that is not what you meant but that seems to be what you are saying)

    ignoring the obvious problem that the majority of pain killers are opiates and illegality would create severe problems with regards to the general well being of society,, how exactly do you propose to enforce these totalitarian laws? lots of people like coffee
    you seem to be of the opinion that laws stop people doing things and my point is that they do not will not and never, EVER have. i suppose it could work if we were in a totalitarian dictatorship but no one wants that.......right john? there is no point in making laws that stop people harming themselves because they can never be enforced. if they could then the 100 years of the war on drugs would have got some results by now. i know your inner-monologue is saying "but drugs are bad mmkay" but unfortunately, no one cares! that is not to say that your opinion is not a valid one or even that you are not right but don't expect people to care. for christ sake oxygen is bad for your body in the long term but i'm pretty sure thats gonna stay legal!

    also to clarify on some errors in what you have said (although sam morrisy has already done a stellar job) there are NO links between weed and cancer there are NO links between weed and anti-social behaviour there are NO recorded fatalities there is NO study saying any of the active substances in the plant are toxic and most importantly weed has been legal for thousands of years it's only in last 100 that the criminal element has been put into it.

    cannabis (or more appropriatly hemp) is well endorsed by the bible which, although this tells us nothing about it being actually good or bad for us, is just a simple way for me to dismiss one of your claims. please think things through more openly and listen to what other people have to say.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Samuel-Morrissey/627791008 Samuel Morrissey

    No, I am not trying to tell you johnny boy, I am telling you. Sorry if it stings but lies need to be called as they are, before they start infecting the less critical thinkers out there.

    Note I did not once write that weed is not dangerous, I wrote that is not toxic. Do some homework, and look up the dictionary definition of toxic. Oxygen is toxic john. Do some more homework, and tell me exactly what is bad about the information I have given you. Maybe also a little study of logic, reason and rhetoric, would compel you to answer or maybe counter any of the questions I put to you or statements I have made. Go on, I dare you.

    I may be delusional, as much as the next person, I grant you. If so, the crucial difference between you and me is, my delusion fits reality and yours does not.

    Sam.

  • Guest

    I sent a reply to this a few minutes ago but it does not show. So here it is again.
    Hemp is not illegal.
    Hemps shelled seeds are very high in zinc, magnesium and protein, they are sold in markets in many countries.
    The first Levi's jeans were made of hemp fibers which are longer, stronger, more lustrous, absorbent and mildew resistant than cotton.
    Still to this day hemp is widely used to make clothing and is very durable.
    az

  • dewflirt

    Evening sixes, mind telling me where in the uk? Just curious, don't worry if you'd rather not :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Samuel-Morrissey/627791008 Samuel Morrissey

    Hemp is still grown in licensed farms in the UK for its fibers. Very good for making textiles and ropes. There are more than a few towns called Hempton or some slight variation here.

    Other tried and tested uses include :-
    Bio-diesel - the first diesel engines were designed to run on hemp oil.
    Paper - that doesn't involve cutting down slow growing trees.
    Building materials - fiber board, insulation, blocks.
    Plastics - in cars and buildings, that doesn't need a finite oil reservoir.

    Regards, Sam.

  • AntiTheist666

    @Azilda

    No I haven’t, I’m guessing its potent stuff. My neck of the woods is famous for its magic mushrooms, Mother Nature’s LSD. I’ve tried them a few times. For research purposes only of course.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Krisfalusci/100000457306764 John Krisfalusci

    If you dont smoke it then why are you even siding with these drug addicts? That is endorsing it really... This stuff is probably more harmful than alcohol and nicotine combined... now about these pain killers...

    We don't need them, i have lived my whole life without that stuff and the reason why people are hooked on them is the same reason people want marijuana. It is addicting. Do people need open heart surgeries? No we dont need it, but we want it because it helps us live longer, it is the same reason. These things in life we really don't need but because of greed or addiction or ignorance or any other reason. I am not implying a totalitarian law either. I am just saying leave this dangerous stuff the way it has been for almost a 100 years, which is banned and illegal and now we even have the technologies to eradicate something forever. Almost like extinct. Can you imagine how the future will be without this stuff? More peaceful I garuntee!

  • AntiTheist666

    @Dewflirt

    And a very good evening to you too Dewy.

    I don’t mind a bit! Beautiful Llangollen, North Wales. What about you? Just curious, don’t worry if you’d rather not :-)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/John-Krisfalusci/100000457306764 John Krisfalusci

    Samuel, 2 posts ago I had written that schools, government/ congressional leaders/Presidents, and the bible all mention marijuana as either toxic, dangerous, and/or cause of cancer/premature death.

    Your last post you said this, "You learned lies at school, you heard lies from politicos, you read lies in a fairy tale."

    You ARE delusional. You are implying that we lived our whole life as a lie then?

    My point was that with so many sources saying this stuff is bad, don't you think then there should be a reason why this stuff is illegal?
    I mean it's NOT coincidence that all of these important sources are saying the same thing now is it?

    Really Samuel, you're hallucinating this is ridiculous...

  • dewflirt

    I lived in Brecon for a while :) Now on the south coast, East Sussex. I can see your house from here! :)

  • AntiTheist666

    @Dewy

    Weird or what? After reading that comment, for a while I couldn’t get the Archers tune out of my head, accompanied by trololololololololol

  • Pysmythe

    Heading to Google Earth now, lol... Stand outside and wave, would you? :)

  • AntiTheist666

    @Mods

    2 virtually identical replies to Dewflirt have disappeared? Could you possibly restore the second and delete the first.

    Cheers

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Samuel-Morrissey/627791008 Samuel Morrissey

    Politicians lie as a profession (example: G.W.Bush+T.Blair - Saddams weapons of mass destruction), the bible is probably full of lies, teachers teach what the lying politicians tell them to, or they lose their job. You ignore the statements of fact I have made and simply regurgitate what you were told. I have told you that cannabis is not toxic, and scientific studies show this to be true, so whosoever tells you it is, is lying. If you repeat it, you are lying. If you tell such obvious lies, I will reproach you in order to protect those who are less critical, or at least encourage them to look at the facts and decide for themselves, rather than blindly believing what professional liars tell them. Almost all of the problems in regard to cannabis are a direct result of it being illegal. This means that were it legalised, almost all of the associated problems would evaporate into thin air, you know, funding criminal organisations, dealing with criminals, filling prisons with kids whose only mistake is to disagree with the validity of that particular law. Also, wherever decriminalisation has been tried - Portugal, Holland, etc. nationwide consumption of it went down - another fact to add to the many you refuse to address. So some of the less common problems with psychiatric disturbance, and the clearly dangerous act of smoking also went down. Isn't that exactly what you want?

    Danger is another point. Toxic is not equal to dangerous is not equal to toxic. Many activities are dangerous, walking on stairs, taking a bath, swimming, driving, etc. The trick is, people avoid the danger by being informed and knowledgeable about the potential risks, not by avoiding the activity. The problem here with drug laws is that the government withholds scientific information about drugs, by the argument that freely giving the information could in itself be seen as an endorsement of their use/abuse. Thus because drugs are illegal, people are more likely to suffer the worst of the associated dangers. Not only is the information withheld, they go one step further and promote misinformation in schools etc. as you are demonstrating.

    Matthew Scannell kindly pointed out that the bible actually endorses hemp (cannabis) and pertinently added that this means nothing in regard to it being good or bad, and also he was sincere and correct to congratulate you on your own diligence in these things. I would like to add my own sincere admiration for your purist attitude to your own health. I take offense, however should you or anyone else ever try to impose your own personal attitude to life over mine or anyone else life. Your argument against open heart surgery is utterly ludicrous - it should be disallowed because those who NEED it to survive are addicted to being alive??? Are you even aware of congenital conditions like Hole in Heart or Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy?

    You can call me delusional all you want, like you said, insults do not help your argument, or indeed complete lack of one. did you notice I was willing to accept that possibility however? Now can you do the same for yourself? It would be only polite.

    Regards, Sam.

  • dewflirt

    Ace, I needed that in my head. Thanks sixes :)

  • Guest

    Waited 15 minutes and still no comment, i thought it was my mistake.
    Thank you though...what do you mean always searching for my stuff?
    az

  • Guest

    Would be nice if Google Earth was in real time. It probably will be one day, it actually might already be for some string holders.
    az

  • Achems_Razor

    Was a joke I exaggerated.

  • Achems_Razor

    Done... sorry about that, don't know what is wrong with Disqus today.

  • AntiTheist666

    Thanks Achems

  • AntiTheist666

    @Achems_Razor

    This is weird? It's disappeared again.

    Edit. According to my Disqus profile 4 others have gone as well?

  • Achems_Razor

    Actually you should read the "comment policy" above, any posts that are unrelated to the doc, like idle chit-chat will be deleted. You all have to stay on topic, or use facebook and stuff like that.

  • Guest

    You win some and you loose some, you can often slide a joke or two between the religious bashing....there it seem to be more tolerant towards breaking policies.
    az

  • AntiTheist666

    ..

  • Achems_Razor

    @AntiTheist666:

    Whatever, I did not take the posts off, so bring it up with whomever did, and good luck!

  • Guest

    Come one...don't get upset, those guys do a fantastic job. When you post most of us are here often enough that we catch anything that gets deleted later on, and if not...Oh well!
    I've had many post deleted because of my chit chat, my jokes and my poetry. I don't care, the pleasure was in writing and reading them to myself and knowing that someone had to be fast enough to catch my throw.
    We are not face to face, sometimes i feel like i'am writing a journal....bunch of black dots assembled in a big square.
    No one here is victimized unless you allow it to feel that way, some do try but not our lovely moderators.

    az

  • AntiTheist666

    @Achems_Razor

    Ok thanks for the info. I hope you can see why I addressed it to you. Will change it to @Mods. Good luck? A Miracle possibly?

  • AntiTheist666

    @Azilda

    Chemistry, Alchemy, Periodic Table. (Yes I know what you mean. Good words once again. And yes I’m being overly dramatic about it, thankfully I’m already over it, the moan is over and I’ve moved on with lessons learned.)Mendeleyev, Marie Curie, Chicken Biryani.

  • His Forever

    I've had several posts deleted. But not recently that I know of.

  • AntiTheist666

    @Achems_Razor

    Please accept my apologies for having a “dig” at you in my little strop yesterday. Of course you are human being and a very worthy one too. One who I have much respect for. So again I am sincerely sorry and I hope there are no hard feelings. I just felt a little fobbed off is all. Best regards. (I only say this to people I really like, it doesn’t get any better :-)

    The Apologetic One

  • Achems_Razor

    @AntiTheist666:

    Apologies accepted.

  • AntiTheist666

    Thankyou.

  • AntiTheist666

    @C_and_N

    Hi there, nice to SEE you. I used to be Atheist13.You used to be a ButterFly! Any thoughts on Chemistry or subjects in the doc? Best regards.

    The Crucified One

  • Julie

    Do you work for the DEA? Do you have the ability to think for yourself or do you just repeat what your daddy tells you. The moment mankind accepts marijuana is the moment our eyes have opened. To sit there and compare marijuana, which cannot kill through overdose or torment with the pain of a physical withdrawl, to two of the most addictive and damaging drugs on the planet shows your inability for critical thinking.

  • Julie

    When will they learn?

  • His Forever

    I haven't watched a documentary in months. I'm going through a profound period of personal depression (to be honest). I read comments from time to time, but I didn't watch the doc. Sorry for the off-tipic comments. I'm just cyber-lonely I guess and I like Az, and Razor, and a few other "friends" here and I read their comments from time to time and sometimes add a quip or two myself.

    I love my butterfly icons. In my heart, I still believe--and the butterfly is the symbol of rebirth in God (at least for me); God remains my only hope in a hopeless world. If you could enlarge the picture you'd see my son and I are still looking at a quite large native butterfly here in the Philippines on a Bird of Paradise flower. Very pretty.

    Not so very fond of your penname, I might add, nor your unfortunatelly very witty comment, but I do like your icon as I truly hate litterbugs--I pick up other people's garbage in fact! Good for you! ;-)

  • Achems_Razor

    Howdy Charles...in depression are you? well come back to the discussions, am sure that will cheer you up! We need your viewpoints on a lot of these discussions, and not to worry we have your back.

    We all missed you as you probably know, you are our in-house religee, probably the only religee that is truly respected.

  • His Forever

    Thank you Mr. Razor. I secretly suspect I'm minorly bi-polar (and have been for most of my life)---I don't think there's any one true "point" where a person is or isn't bi-polar; it's a continum.

    That bi-poloar possibility and the fact that the poor economy is just now starting to catch up to me as I teach online--- I'm loosing income as students drop classes, etc. or want reduced rates for one-one-one tutoring online. I haven't felt this discouraged since 2004.

    I just don't see how people cope with life's challenges without faith in God; it would utterly "devoid me" of all purpose. Presently, however, I'm irritated most by two kinds of people: The utterly faithless, and then the mindlessly cheerfully Christian as well. I've never been either of the two extremes.

    Off topic: There's an advertisement for burgers, beer, and icecream next to my post. I want icecream; I'd like the burger and I'd even drink that beer too (had one in China last month which was my first in 12 years--just as yucky as I remembered), but the icecream is a more obtainable umpulse at the moment! I feel better already. Unless Momma and the kids ate it all when I was teaching class, which is a very real possibility! :-)

  • over the edge

    @C_and_N
    sorry to hear about your depression. hope everything is ok. we may disagree a lot but you are missed.

  • AntiTheist666

    @C_and_N

    Thanks so much for your honest and sensitive reply.

    Profound personal depression? Many like you and I have been through this horrible condition. Strangely, this is not off topic, as much of it involves body CHEMISTRY. Check it out with some health professionals in your area. Sometimes just changing your environment or routine is enough to kick in a more positive response. Watch a heart warming, life affirming doc here and see if you feel a bit better.

    Your picture with your son and the Bird of Paradise flower is beautiful. It’s a reason to be cheerful! :-)

  • Achems_Razor

    Charles...Actually depression is not to much off topic because it does concern body chemistry, you know the old adage "I was depressed because I had no shoes, until I saw someone with no feet" or something like that.

    There are people that would die to be in your place, a wonderful family that you have and other things, it is up to "YOU" to pull yourself up by your bootstraps, and start the positive thinking stuff, things will get better if you have "FAITH"! whether it be religion or not. Whatever works for you!

  • Guest

    Hi CnN...long time...i think a lot of people are going through personal depression (although they don't call it as such). When i look around, i see many people who are unhappy with their situation, i would be tempted to say a lot of unexpected shite is happing to quite a few. Some say it's spring, some say it's the economy, some say the world is coming to a realisation. Who knows.
    I read all the comments people wrote you...made me see how we pull together when one of us is down.
    Come on....live what you are going through knowing that it too shall pass in the same way, the good passes.
    Every one has a voice here and there are not too many voices like yours, i am sure it can be hard at times, but look who wrote you back... the hardcore atheists. In the end we know you're a good man with good intentions.
    az

  • Ch H

    Hi, John. I think Dylan's implicit point was that correlations take a lot of proving. He's saying that qua correlation, his sex/incarceration correlation is as valid as your marijuana/incarceration correlation. They may both be valid correlations, but correlation doesn't prove causation. Best wishes, Ch H.

  • Pysmythe

    Good doc, imo.

  • Pysmythe

    Hello there, Charles. You used to know me as Pysmythe, but I guess I decided, well... to be born-again! (nothing blasphemous or insulting intended there, just trying to make you smile.) I would've dropped you a line of encouragement earlier, but I just saw this. I believe I know a little bit how you must feel... I've had recurring depression since I was in my late teens, and I know it can be a very hard monkey to shake. Feels almost like you're grieving for something, sometimes. But hang in there and the tide will roll in for you eventually. And since you're already a believer, I don't guess I'm proselytizing when I remind you of what you already know: Jeremiah 29:11.

    edit- I forgot to add, try a tall, ice-cold glass of milk and a peanut-butter sandwich, too. See, I remembered!

  • Ch H

    @ mods: I know this is a long post that doesn't even mention the doc, but I promise not to do it again & I think I may speak from the horse's mouth to Charles's concern. I leave it to you, of course.

    Hi C_and_N,

    I've been watching docs here for a year, but only yesterday stumbled on a couple of discussions with the other people here. Is it possible that I have actually found a group of discussants who can disagree on religion and yet respect and like one another? If so, I've hit gold.

    As Antitheist might already know from a comment I made over at "Riddles of the Bible," I'm a religee myself & can safely say that I've been around the block a few times.

    If I may do so without intruding, I'd like to second Antitheist's suggestion that you get checked out medically if you can & if you feel OK about it. I definitely have bipolar disorder, tho it got missed for a long time bcs it's super-rapid cycling, which "they" didn't officially recognize until a few years ago. I totally agree that it's a continuum.

    Medication can help a lot, it can bring a lot of relief & make life much easier. But one of my cardinal rules is that you are the expert on yourself. If a doctor is telling you something that doesn't ring true, don't accept it. The same with medicines. Only you know what feels right for you. It's good to have family around, bcs they can recognize a bad reaction sooner than you might. If you do get to the doctor, make it a psychiatrist if you can, and make sure to say that you think you might be bipolar.

    I'm a freelancer. Like a lot of us, I too have been white-knuckling it the last four years. May I speak from my own experience and suggest that you hold firm on your fees if you possibly can? Don't short-change yourself as the professional you are; a respectable fee can also work to give clients confidence in you. Long term, it has paid off for me during these years to stick to my guns.

    I wish you the very best. Yours respectfully, Ch H

  • dewflirt

    Morning C, sorry to hear you're so sad right now :( I remember you saying some time ago that you are a worrier by nature, I can see why now more than ever you could slip into that way of being. Life can really knock you for six sometimes. Also know you're tough as old boots and will keep plodding on until things fall into place again. I have recently rediscovered my childhood love of Shakespeare and to almost quote him, 'serve god, love life and mend'
    Kiss those beautiful babies of yours and remember, It's going to be alright :)

  • His Forever

    Thanks for that! I'm earnestly trying to get back to the U.S.A. now. I miss the U.S.A. so much now.

  • His Forever

    Good advice all the way around.

    How rapid is "rapid-cycling"? Sounds painfully like exercise, and I try to avoid all forms of that! ;-)

    Yes, this is a good place to hash it out over docs and sometimes apart from the docs (Vlatko willing).

    Unfortunately for us, most of the atheists here are near-genious and well educated and it's quite depressing (pun intended) to try and refute them--especially if you don't have the time or desire for extensive study and research into their scientific arguements. I hope you're a professor or something, as I get embarrassed with uneducated ignorant, easily flustered Christians who come and go pretty quickly. Muslims just boggle my mind anyway, so I usually ignore them entirely.

    Peacefully Yours,

    Charles B.

  • dewflirt

    You should check out We The Tiny House People on the recently added list, it's one of those docs that makes you glad you watched. Full of cute and happy :)

  • His Forever

    Jeremiah 29:11 is my all-time favorite Scripture. So cool you mentioned it! I wanted to be an O.T. professor at one time. Love Jesus dearly, but all the cool stuff in in the Old Testament.

    My "plans" that I hope God blesses me with is to be a pastor in the U.S.A. in Arkansas. Ironically, I shouldn't be making life-changing plans when I'm depressed and upset, but it seems the right move at the moment. I think Arkansas is the place for me.

    No, no snake-handling, please. That's just stupid. They use the blacktails which are the most passive of the rattlers, anyway, but it's not God protecting them, it's just a big fat passive snake that doesn't want to use its venum on a stupid person rather than on a tasty meal. With that said, people still get bit all the time and . . . . die. But when they get to Heaven, God probably says, "What were you thinking!?!" :-)

  • His Forever

    Mr. Razor, you've never spoken more truer words. Faith keeps me coming back to the same point where I try again.

  • His Forever

    I am reluctant to see a doctor. I did in 2004 and was on Lexipro for a year. I felt better . . . . when I wasn't wanting to jump off the dam! Then when I quit cold-turkey . . . well, that was fun!

    C.S Lewis (my hero) said there is a law of "undulation"-- you can't always be up and you can't always be down. You just have to enjoy the ups in life and wait patiently for the downs to pass. He said it much better, but I remembered the core of his idea. A wise man indeed.

  • His Forever

    Sometimes I'm honest to a fault. My wife is upset with me as she wanted to know if I was still a Christian. I told her "I'm not so sure. Not so sure there even is a God."

    Well, in the words of Yoda "Unhappy she was!"

    But, in my heart, I believe; truly. God never faults those in the Bible that stuggle with his mysteries (like Abraham and Paul and Job), but rather rewards them when they come out the other side and remain a man of faith. Such is my heart's desire.

  • His Forever

    Ok. I think I'll watch Tiny House People tomorrow with my kids. But, sadly most of my neighbors are tiny house people, but not by choice. I've got the biggest house on the block and I LIKE it!

  • His Forever

    Open quesiton to all: what brain chemistry is involved in depression in its various forms?

    My dad said that he went through times of depression too, and my mom liked him best when he was depressed because he was mellow and non-argumentative. I ask mom is that was true, and she said "Yes!" to my utter shock. Poor dad. But, he's still trucking just fine at age 85, bless his heart.

  • over the edge

    @ charles
    asking questions (even if they are to yourself) is always the best way to the truth. while i might question you on many things your devotion to your wife and kids is not one of them. and by what you have said about them i am sure your wife's unhappiness to your answer will pass. where you come out on the other side will not change the good man that you are. i deliberately avoided the usual debate on religion we usually have at this point it doesn't seem fair or warranted. all i truly want to express in this post is my sincere hope for your well being.

  • KooKookaChoo

    @ Charles,
    First off, *cyber hug*! No matter how people may disagree and how emotions may get involved in threads, we are all connected. I sincerely hope you find the peace you are looking for. Keep us updated, we really do care about you!

    Brain chemistry is a fascinating topic. As much as you are "wired" for certain traits, your brain does have the incredible ability to change -- the whole nature vs nurture thing. But what's better is that YOU can have control over your emotions.

    However, depression is much more than just thinking positive thoughts -- I am a very happy and bubbly person, and I can tell you that even though it is natural for me, it is work (though it does become easier with time) -- but depression goes much deeper, I'm sure you know this.

    I want to suggest to you to try new things. I know that sounds obvious and I know that while in a depression it is hard to get motivated to doing pretty much anything, but if an opportunity arises and you can do something you haven't done in a long time, or ever, give it go.

    Also, as hard as is at first, be your own best friend. If you find yourself saying things to yourself that you would not put up with from a stranger - tell yourself to shut-up! seriously! (even if people think you are crazy for saying out loud, lol!)

    Lastly, spend time with your beautiful son exploring his new world. He looks to be young and that is the best time to rediscover what can become a tired and sad reality. Take the time to do the small things -- jump in mud puddles! play with bugs! eat a plate of food with your hands behind your back -- let the adult world go for a bit.
    Relax. Breathe. You are loved.

    Many thanks for giving me an opportunity to help,
    Take care and stay in touch,
    Marie.

  • Pysmythe

    Issues with serotonin and dopamine. Those two are the main culprits, is my understanding.

  • Ch H

    Hi Charles,

    Yes, I do have some relevant degrees. They are a help, and I will do my utmost to make the team look good!

    I hear you on argumentation. Maybe this isn't the time for you to be casting yourself into the fray. Don't be cruel to yourself by pushing your mind further than it can go right now, nor by taking on thankless arguments because you feel it's your duty.

    Personally, I have no truck anymore with adversarial argument, whether it be at the dinner table, in the public forum, on radio, or online. Nor do I engage people whose allegiance is to an ideology, be it sacred or secular. I leave refutational argument to the professional, cottage-industry theists and atheists.

    Just because somebody poses me a question, doesn't mean that I owe them an answer. Nor do I feel responsible for picking up every gauntlet that's tossed at my feet. If somebody's looking to score points off me, they can find another target.

    Discussion can be robust without being destructive. To me, the only worthwhile discussion is one where people want to learn from one another, where they are grown-up enough to put down their weapons and kick off their shoes. Aristotle wrote that knowledge is a group effort, and so it is.

    It's not our responsibility to refute the other side in the God Debate. People like us are very earnest. It pains us when people misconstruct our beliefs, or adopt postures intended to accuse and hurt others. But nobody, even us (LOL), can make a closed person open. When both parties open themselves, then conversation can begin.

    May I make so bold as to refer you to the good you do by being your affectionate, peaceful, and honest self? That is the kind of influence that's felt by others, and if I'm not mistaken, it has already won you the accolade of "truly respected religee." Clearly you're doing good work!

    With best wishes,
    Ch H

  • Achems_Razor

    @Ch H:

    You say..."But nobody, even us (LOL), can make a closed person open."

    So in other words are you saying that us atheists are closed persons because we do not want to believe in your fairy tales, or maybe did believe at one time until we/they saw the light and deduced religion for what it really was, a form of mind control.

    Not trying to start an argument here but a lot of atheists consider religee's to be the most close minded people on earth. Their beliefs as etched in stone as their religions are. Static.

  • Achems_Razor

    @Ch H:

    Sorry, but it seems you are patronizing me to further your agenda, have not yet seen one religee that has not tried to get new converts to join and justify their belief systems.

    And if you say that is not what you are doing I will say I do not believe you.

    There is no such thing as debate in religious argument/circles. There is not much to debate except maybe the (CA) cosmological argument that has been debated since Plato days.

    The rest of your post I am sorry to say is nonsensical.

  • His Forever

    Ch H: That was very well said. May I ask if you're a man or a woman? I'm thinking with the flower you're a "lady" like Az, but perhaps not.

    The one thing that I found most disconcerting when speaking with many atheists and especially the scientifically minded atheists is that there seems to be a total abandonment of the "spiritual" aspect of who we are. Humans are "spiritual" overwhelmingly world-wide. To not aknowledge the "soul" or the spiritual nature of poeple and only focus on the scientific arguments negates the possibilities of "proof" in one form or another from any other source but the scientific method, etc.

    For example, to feel God's presence or comfort, turns into electromagnetic fields that disrupt circuts in the brain, an an near-death experience where Heaven or Hell is experienced is contributed to high Co2 levels in your blood at the time of death and recussitation.

    That's what frustrates me the most as I can't ignore half of who we are--we are mind body and spirit (all three), not just the mind.

    True story time: I'm chronically forgetful to pray the blessing before I eat. Just now my son brought me my oatmeal and chided me for not praying. He prayed for me and said, "Dad, when I pray for you and feel my heart go dig dig!" Exactly! That's what I'm talking about! Even a 5 year old understand there's a power to faith/prayer/obedience that may or may not be so easily quantifyable in scientific terms.

    That and extra helpings needs extra prayer! ;-)

  • His Forever

    KooKooKaChoo: Thank you! From me to you! Now I have one or two--good things to do--Before the day is through!

    I've always had itchy feet--I'm ready to get out of the Philippines and back home to America. That and the fact that there's been 4 murders in three months in my neighborhood.

  • His Forever

    I also thinking diet plays a part. I'm beginning to suspect sugar not only makes you more stupid (I read that in an article), but affects everything including your mood. My mom and dad are diabetic, so I think if I'm more careful with my diet, that can eliminate one potential cause for frustration which leads to burnout and/or depression.

  • Ch H

    I can only say, that I'm sorry my reply was a provoking one and that it read as being patronizing. Neither one was my intention.

  • His Forever

    I saved the link AntiTheist666 gave me. My son wants to watch Monter Trucking Today (rather than Little House People) and my 3 year old daughter just came in with her hair slathered in "gel! gel!" I'm suspecting it's mommy and daddy's "gel" :-( Yes, yes, in the future, that will be funny, but at the moment . . . . well it's funny now! But mommy won't be so happy! She's the one that usualy gives the water torture (A.K.A. "The Bath") to the yungins! :-)

  • AntiTheist666

    @Achems

    With much respect. Gentle hint. Watch your step with this one@Ch H; I think you’ve just been asked to a merry dance, sounds like fun. She is a fine dancer.

    The Jealous One

  • Guest

    I really like how your signature changes with the flow of your words.
    az

  • Pysmythe

    If you're healthy enough for it, exercise would help alter your brain chemistry for the better, too. And several months ago, I read an article that said that for a pretty fair percentage of the moderately depressed, exercise ALONE (I'm assuming coupled with a balanced diet) actually works to improve mood more effectively than the use of antidepressant medication. If you can get up the motivation, you never know, you might be one of them.

  • AntiTheist666

    @Ch H

    Chemistry huh?

    Yay, I’ll come. I’ll bring my CHEMISTRY set if that’s OK, maybe a few EXPERIMENTS? Perhaps we could have a picnic on the PERIODIC TABLE?

  • Guest

    Your suggestion of periodic table and his suggestion of board game has an answer...
    The game *Periodic Quest*, Winner of 8 Popular Children's Product Awards Including Dr. Toy Award and Mom's Choice Award.
    (Doctor Toy Award...funny!)
    az

  • His Forever

    I need to get a job where I can't sit on my arse all day in front of the computer. I feel my backside growing, by heart moaning, and
    my mood souring. But it's nice to not have to leave my family every day for work.

  • AntiTheist666

    @C_and_N

    Chin UP Charles, I read a few articles on brain chemistry yesterday, this bit caught my eye. Simple acts like smiling release endorphins and make you feel good. The more genuine and bigger the smile, the greater the chemical reward. The process is so “hard wired” it even works for fake smiles, though the effect is greatly reduced.

    So think for a moment about something jolly good, a fave happy memory or feel good thing. Put on your SunDay clothes. Put on a Happy tune. Put on a Happy Face. Get UP off your but. Get UP on the Dance Floor. Get in front of a BIG mirror and Pull Shapes! Especially happy smiley ones ;-)

    The only way is UP Charles.

    Thus danced The Crucified One

  • Ch H

    Hi there, Charles!

    Yes, you are right that I'm a woman, and I do hope a lady. And I love irises.

    I've got a couple of quotes you might like. The first is my all-time favorite: "The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable." Hah! No truer words were ever spoken. The second: "Man does not live by bread alone. He needs peanut butter." And a cold glass of milk. (I love both!)

    Believe it or not, both of these statements were made by (or in the case of the second, attributed to) James A. Garfield, president of the United States from March to December 1881. Such an unusual man---a classics scholar and professor, a Congressional representative, very kind, very funny, very wise.

    I've never quite gotten the material-reduction arguments about God. For instance, when "God is talking to me," neurons are firing in certain parts of my brain. But neurons are firing in certain parts of my brain when anybody is talking to me. This just proves correlation, which by itself doesn't tell us anything about causality.

    OK, now let's say that when certain of my neurons are stimulated electrically, I hear God talking to me. Is it "just in my brain"? But if other neurons are stimulated, I might well hear Charles talking to me. But we wouldn't conclude that Charles is "just in my brain," absent other proof.

    The thing is, a faith standpoint can reject a strictly materialist view of the world without rejecting science. Science is a method, a method, a method. It deals with the efficient, or causal, mechanisms of nature.

    When I look at the Genesis account of creation I don't see God making us out of play-dough. I see that it gets the evolutionary chain of events basically right: light plus primordial goop, giving rise to plants and animals in an ascending order of complexity.

    Evolution is a means of development of organic life. Fine, I shrug, so God worked via evolution---her call. :-) The stumbling block with evolution seems to be its indication that life is on a developmental continuum, from sludge to ape to human. It's a challenge to the long-held conviction of the separateness and uniqueness of the human race.

    But again, it's not like some sorts of Christianity haven't dealt with this idea, and surprisingly long ago. The finest Catholic medieval thinkers of natural science articulated the notion of the "great chain of being," which moves from from inanimate/material being to animate/material being, to rational-spiritual/material being (i.e. humans) to rational-spiritual/non-material being (i.e. angels). I have no problem placing that view on an evolutionary continuum, so that you have one kind shading into another kind.

    Last point: It's a heck of a lot easier to reject an idea out of hand, or dump on somebody else's belief system, than it is to do the constructive work of presenting/explaining that belief system for people outside it. It's the difference between kicking dirt and creating a sculpture.

    And no, we shouldn't need a dozen graduate degrees between us in order to engage in this conversation. If people are curious and interested in other world views, then we need only our own experience to start a conversation.

    Alas, I could talk with all of you day and night, but though it might be a holiday, I have some serious work to get done. I hope I'll be back in a couple of days.

    Take care! Ch H

  • AntiTheist666

    @Ch H

    Outstanding comment! Lots to talk about when you get back. Don’t work too hard!

    Take care of yourself.

    The Crucified One

  • Ch H

    Hi Antitheist,

    I think I've gotten my wires crossed about where I'm talking with whom and about what. This has been a heady couple of days. Can you tell that I'm starved for good talk on certain subjects?

    Today is the official start of summer for me, not because of the holiday but because I've had my first iced coffee of the season. We seem to have turned the heat index corner this weekend!

    I watched the Nietzsche documentary, for the second time as it turned out. No harm there. I understand the people who wanted more of the philosophy, but I think it's really important to know about N's life in order to have a reference point for cutting it down to size, so to speak. Otherwise it can seem like he comes from another world.

    I'm going to post on the N. doc site proper a link to a paper by a physician that goes clinically & exhaustively thru N's medical history, ultimate diagnosis, and some catty published remarks about N that entered N lore, after he couldn't defend himself. The doc (different kind of doc!) concludes cautiously, like the disciplined scientist he is (I, as only a fan, can say that it's a slam dunk), that N more likely suffered from a tumor on the optic nerve that finally impinged on that area of the brain that would cause the form of dementia he had.

    I must ask your patience while I track down article & link. You might come up with it by searching nietzsche + syphilis + journal of medical biography.

    I must place a hold on further conversation while I spend a couple or three days engaged in that barbaric thing called "work." But I plan to come back to my new friends.

    Peace, Ch H.

  • AntiTheist666

    @Ch H

    Amazing. But I’m sure I’ve read the very same paper and others like David Owen. You’re right it does sound like a slam dunk.

    The Joyful One

  • His Forever

    There's a lot of truth to that.

  • His Forever

    Ch H: My mother had some antique irises growing at her house. Not sure how old the flowerbed was. Ancient. We lived there 25+ years and we weren't the ones that planeted them. Also before the old woman across the street died she said our rose bush was 70 years old. I sure hope it's still there as my mom has moved and the new people have totally rennovated everything.

    As far as God using evolution to create the world, that's just the first step to a loosing argment and a slippery slope that ends with atheism proper.

    My father, still living, age 85 (almost) ia a Biblical scholar and holds the theory that the earth really is ancent (no young yearth model), but that the reformation (not recreation) of the earth with Adam and Eve is not so long ago. I have an old post (like two years old) entitled Charles' Theory of Everything on For the Bible Tells Me So. It's long. If you have time, you can word search it. I think it still comes up.

    Until all things are answered fully (which will most likely be after I die, anyway), I'm content to acknowledge God as the Truth and science as the means by which we understand more of how that Truth created and redeemed His creation via the Lord Jesus Christ.

    It irks me when renound scientists like Steven Hawkings has the "faith" to say that everything came from "nothing" and in a moment, a sigularity infinately small exploded with such force it created the universe. It's easier to believe in . . . . well God! than something that idiologically uncomprehensible.

    With that said, I have no problem with the Big Bang--God's word was the spark that set the ball in motion; then as God is eternal, no time span is significant in how He chose to establish the universe, including the earth before the creation of life/us. 14.5 billion years is as insignificant as any number when you're speaking on an "eternal" basis. But,the Bible does talk about the heavens waxing old (getting old and running down) and that they will be recreated in due time. When ever I hear a scientist say that we are already "extinct" on our little planet that will just be a ball of ice in the sky when the sun burn up, I say, "Yes,that is true, if there is no God. But, I shall be around on the day the Earth and Heavens and the whole of the universe is made new to see it! How about you?"

    Peacefully Yours,

    Charles B

  • AntiTheist666

    @C_and_N

    Wow Charles I thought you said you were Cyber lonely! Seems like you have lots of very good Cyber friends to me. Did you try the CHEMISTRY EXPERIMENT? I mean did you manage a smile ;-)

    The Grinning One

  • Ch H

    Hi Charles,

    Quick last word. If you'd be interested, I'd value being able to think thru the evolution "slippery slope" with someone who is sympathetic to belief in God.

    While I gave you my considered opinion, I can't dismiss Darwin's and Nietzsche's concern about the same thing. I'm not sure what I'm missing. I don't know, for instance, if Darwin thought that evolution actually, and logically provably, ruled out the existence of God, or if he rather saw that many people would draw that conclusion, justifiably or not.

    Ditto Nietzsche. Clearly he saw that evolutionary theory presented THE radical development of his, or any, age. But when he says that God is dead because "we have killed him, you and I," could he not mean that European culture decided to kill him for a whole agenda of reasons, whether the nonexistence of God followed from evolution or not?

    Your father's idea of a re-creation of earth is very interesting indeed.

    Best wishes, Ch H

  • Achems_Razor

    All you guys doing your religious things. That is your prerogatives, but I do highly recommend you all switch to a doc on religion to keep all this religious stuff on topic.

    Otherwise this off topic stuff may be removed. This doc is about chemistry.

  • Guest

    This site is not about being a religious person or not. This site is about subject of all kinds, people of all countries, colours, backgrounds, races which expectedly would include people of all belief or non belief.
    I am not sure your idea of religee busters is in line with the maker of this site. I suppose we should ask him.
    az

  • Achems_Razor

    AZ...No matter how you want to cut it, this doc is about chemistry, not religion, and religion has absolutely no substance here on this doc, way off topic, so I will say again let all the religee's go to a religious doc and (new word) "proselytize" to their hearts content, end of story.

  • AntiTheist666

    ..

  • Guest

    I agree and gave a like on that comment too...but your (religee busters) invited her comment you call an ad hominem, i say it was deserved.
    az

  • Ch H

    Yes, you are right to correct me. I was hasty in a moment of exasperation, and I really hope you'll take my apology.

  • Ch H

    Hi Azilda, I dropped a note to Vlatko apologizing for things getting out of hand. If he thinks anything should be deleted, I accept his judgment. Anyway, I so much don't want to provoke anybody. I'm still learning. Ch H

  • Ch H

    AntiTheist, You are completely right. I apologize for getting out of hand. I got exasperated, when I should have left it alone. Like I said to Azilda, I've never done real conversation online before. Have almost always just left my post and that was it. I must say, I'm embarrassed, and I'm going to delete my posts, restore the equilibrium I hope. It's so hard to get it right sometimes. Peace to you, too, and thanks for the correction. Ch H

  • Ch H

    Achems_Razor, I've deleted the offensive sentence from my post to C_N. I'm still figuring out that what I post to anyone will be read by everyone, and I need to work on expressing myself more judiciously and thoughtfully. I hope maybe we can talk about other things than this sometime.

  • Achems_Razor

    @Ch H:

    Not to worry, I never hold grudges to anyone, yes maybe other stuff we can talk about, as long as they are on topic. lol

    I removed the posts that you have deleted, and removed some of mine.

  • AntiTheist666

    @Ch H

    Chemistry huh, who would have thought it could so exiting? Sometimes all you need is a few corrosive elements, a little vitriolic acid, a little bit of blue touch paper and a couple of bright sparks. Stand well back and hey presto; you’ve got the Big Bang.

    You have absolutely nothing to apologise for or be embarrassed about. And while I do sense your unease, don’t worry about that. I’m sure as you get to know all the wonderfully different characters here at TDF that will soon pass. I am pleased to debate religion and CHEMISTRY with someone as intelligent and thoughtful as you.

    The Crucified One

  • Ch H

    I'm so relieved. Thank you so much for telling me. Take care. :-)

  • Ch H

    :-) Chemistry, indeed. Thanks for getting us back on topic! Hope everybody sleeps tight tonight (allowing for time zones).

  • His Forever

    Ch H: It's not a "re-creation" of the earth, as a full remodeling of the Earth by fire is still in the future. A "re-creation" would have destoyed fossils, and all traces of the old earth before the time of Adam and Eve.

    In Genesis 1:1 is says that God created the Heavens and the Earth. Genesis 1:2 says that the Earth was void and water covered the face of the deep.

    I learned in school of what is called "prophetic perspective". Prophetic perspective is when a prophet of God sees two mountains in the distance and talks about each without mentioning the valley between them. Prophecy talks about some issues that were current to their time, and then issues that are yet to come to pass without bothering to mention or hardly mention the timespan inbetween them. It's just not important to the story or those originally hearing the prophecy.

    While Gensis is not prophetic, but ancient history, the concept is the same. Between the creation of the world/universe in Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 where it is laid waste is thousands perhaps millions of years. In between (according to my brilliant father) was the rebellion of Satan (who we already see is fallen in the Garden of Eden during Adam's time.

    Under the rebellion of Satan, the earth and perhaps even parts of heaven were laid waste in judgement by God (the earth was destroyed by flood). Genesis 1:1 is a restoration of the Earth, not a re-cration.

    Why was the earth destoryed by flood in the Lucifer Rebellion? Because Lucifer was given control of the earth at that time and the people and planet chose to follow him in his rebellion as did 1/3 of the angels.

    The Garden of Eden may have had different animals to the original creation of the earth. Perhaps dinosaurs, etc. were not re-created in the Garden of Eden. I'm not so sure.

    To make an exceedinlgy and extraordinarily long study as short as I can make it = the earth is not young, but old. Earth destoryed by God during Lucifer rebellion by flood. Adam and Eve's time is the restoration project. Noah's flood (the second world-wide flood that destroyed the earth) and that is why afterwards God said He would no longer do that again, but next time, the earth will be renivated by fire.

    Many scriptures say that the Earth is "eternal" and so it will never be totally destoyed, but renivated or remade like you'd remake a potter's bowl that is marred and then reform it.

    Sticking points for me: 1. The Institute of Creation Research is very much "young Earth" oriented and has a lot of interesting and valid points. 2. There isn't any cut and dry statements in the Bible to say this is what happened difinitively. They are gleaned form many parts, but like I said, my dad is a Biblical genious but I'm sure he gets most of, if not all of his insights from a Biblical scholar named Finis Dake. The logic is sound. 3. In the book of Job there are several creatures that sound like dinosaurs living during his time which wasn't so long ago. Perhaps I'm wrong and the ICR is right, and dinosaurs were around not so long ago (and certainly before the Lucifer flood). But that can be explained by their reformation in the Garden of Eden.

    Conclusion: I have enough information to make my heart feel secure that the Bible can be entirely true without evilusion (pun intended) being necessary in God's plan.

    I despise Nietzsche with all my being and I won't waste time or effort contemplating him or his philosophy for even a moment. He said God is dead? Well, God is still around and me thinks Nietzsche is dead!

    Peacefully, and exceedingly exhaustedly yours,

    Charles B.

  • His Forever

    Anti: I love fire. Burned most of the house down as a kid. Mom saved my but(t) by finding me in a raging fire I started in my brother's room and pulling me out before we went unconcious from the smoke. I try not to play with flamible things now. LOL :-)

  • His Forever

    Sorry, Mr. Razor. At least I'm consistent. Did I miss some dramatic exchange? Dang! I've been trying to play harts on the computer all day to relax, but I'm only half-way nervous now. Sent off my resume to a friend in Ghana to see if I can be a prof there at a Christian University. It's getting to dangerous here, so I'm looking for somewhere safer, like . . . . Affica! :-)

  • Guest

    Ghana is a great country, much to see, beautiful beaches, great people, good fruits, good music and more....but in my opinion way too much preaching. Even on the bus preachers will stand in front with book in hand and preach very loud even above the motor noise and then walk around collecting money from poor people. No one dare to tell them to sit down and be quiet.
    Now i can't deny preaching in church if that pleases them but in public places such as the bus where one is confined to a seat...i say get lost.
    I hope if you make it there, you don't become one of those.
    az

  • AntiTheist666

    @C_and_N

    I am also fascinated by fire, I can sit and watch a log fire for ages and I love the sound of it as well. I nearly burnt down the science lab once messing with Bunsen burners and bubble blowing liquid, thankfully only some curtains got burnt and not us. Thinking of going to Affica? Are you sure you’re not on the way to Ithaca? Just for you, if you don’t like using my username, you can call me David or easier still just D.

    The Experimental One

  • His Forever

    "David" is much nicer, actually. It's my dad's name and means "beloved" in Hebrew. "AntiTheist666" is long and just so insulting. I'm stuck with "C_and_N" which I later noticed was similar to CNN which is my most disliked news station. I was thinking of me and my wife at the time when I made it. Oh, the regrets in life!

    I really love controlled camping wood fires. Here in the Philippines they burn everything and the pollution is terrible. Not so enjoyable to watch garbage burn.

  • His Forever

    Az: I'd be a theology professor, hopefully. Maybe an English teacher, but that would be soooooo boring for the rest of my life. I don't like the money-collecting "bus preachers" either. The Philippines has a few too. Bus preaching is tollerable if for the sake of evangelism; I listen to them patiently------------collecting money afterwards--unthinkable!!!

    Just to remain on topic, which is always off-topic, (So sorry Valtko!), I wish I knew where you've been in the world, Az. Is there any place you haven't been? you make me feel travel-envy!

  • AntiTheist666

    @C_and_N

    This is seriously important Charles. I need to clear this up with you and any other religious person that thinks my username is insulting. It simply ISN’T. By your logic Bible Lover is insulting to me, but it’s not, I’ve had friendly chats with god and jesus online. My name simply states my position clearly. It does what it says on the tin unlike most usernames. I nearly called myself The Anti-Christ666 as a tribute to Nietzsche but that was a bit limiting. I think you’d have hated that even more? Also Chris Hitchens declared himself an Anti-theist and it’s a small tribute to him. He used to debate with the religious quite affably. I’m quite proud of my username so please don’t take it as an insult. Btw I’m pleased about your dad’s name :-)

    @Mods

    I realise this post is way off topic but I feel it’s important that @C_and_N and other religious viewers know this. It’s up to you of course. I won’t cry if you take it off. Well not much anyway.lol

    The Respectful One

    Edit. Btw you can change your screen name in your Disqus profile.

  • Guest

    Many more countries i haven't been to than the ones i have...it's a big world. The more you travel the more you realise what you haven't seen as oppose to what you have.
    az

  • His Forever

    David: I changed my name. Thanks for that! I couldn't think of a new penname until the song I was listening to said "I am His forever!' and I tought: "Perfectly! Through my darkest days or my happiest hours, I am still His forever." I feel so much better now.

  • His Forever

    I wish there was a doc called Az's travels (the "s" is optional for a possessive ending in "z" by the way), You could list them and tell the stories and write your observations without always being "off topic". Sincerely spoken.

    Charles B.

  • AntiTheist666

    @His Forever

    I’m so glad you’re feeling better :-)
    Your new name, I like it! Even if it is a bit insulting to Anti-Theists! D’ya get me? Lol
    On your Screen name you don’t need underscores either ;-)
    BTW Get on topic!
    Edit. Tip, what you write in the short bio section in your profile appears where my Myth Understood appears on mine ;-)

    The Diplomatic One

  • Achems_Razor

    Charles...His Forever?? I don't like it at all, sounds like, ahem! well you know, if someone did not not know you were religious, of course nothing wrong with that either, everybody's prerogative of course. but for me "HERS Forever" would be better! how do you know that all your gods are not WOMEN EH?? Women I would bow down to, but to men forget it!!

  • Guest

    All religion says god is within, so it would be better to say it's a IT.
    So may be It Forever. But of course, i'll take you anyway you wish, it's you.
    az

  • AntiTheist666

    @His Forever

    Well said Charles, possibly the best suggestion I’ve ever seen for a doc on this site. I hope she’s fixed her PC problem.

  • His Forever

    I wish she could make a mini-doc about her life? Even a 20 min one that we could put up and then everything would be ON TOPIC! ;-) I really like Az, although we rarely agree.

  • Ch H

    Hi again, Charles.

    I like your new name. Like being enveloped in love (Love). I think many people who see it will be reminded of God's love for them, which will cheer their day, and some of those people will get a boost of encouragement when they need it. Love-ly.

    I've been with you in the trough of exceeding exhaustedness the last few days. I overdid it with the work of the mind last week. Still not back to 100%, but I didn't want my reply to wait too long.

    Thank you for writing such a clear & lengthy reply when you were so tired. I very much appreciate it. I hope I've read it carefully and thought about the ideas. I looked up Finis Drake on Wikipedia, not much info, but it put him on the map for me. I'll pursue it when I have the chance.

    Good that you immediately pointed out the re-creation/restoration distinction. I'd completely missed that. Nor have I heard that description of prophecy before; it's fascinating and I'll have to think more about it. I want to try it out in my mind's eye with something from the prophets I'm familiar with.

    For somebody who's never heard this theology, it was breathtaking to find out that all of it happens in the blink of an eye (I mean on the page) from v. 1 to v. 2. That's very bold thinking, and the fall of Lucifer fits right in, by which I mean that it's not a stretch exegetically. It's an innovative reading, but textually solid.

    To the extent that I've been able to think it through, I agree that the restoration theology can account for the scientific explanations of the origins of the earth and its people. I very much admire your statement of your "sticking points," which mean that you're open to challenge, and to change if necessary. That's honest and courageous thinking, in my view.

    Please don't make any lengthy reply. At this point, I think I'm the one who should be doing some homework. If you have ready sources to direct me to, I'd appreciate it, but you've done more than your share of the "heavy lifting."

    Peace and thanks,
    Ch H

  • His Forever

    Finis Dake has a website, but it mostly has his products. His study Bible is quite good, but huge--a life's work. I'm glad there are better men than I that have had a deeper walk with God than I that I can learn from when confused or in doubt.

    Charles B.

    P.S. May I suggest the penname "Iris"? You would never run out of icons if you wanted to switch and it's a nice name for a lady that's both simple but complicated.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/WLEICHQNNKCYMJKFNNKOS3T5CU Amanda

    To the comments complaining that his videos are too short: he's a youtuber, known for talking waaay too fast (he even made a video about it on his main channel), and it's more about him just talking about the topic; the point of this isn't to go in depth (his target audience IS high school students who AP classes and like to read *a lot*; we're too busy to watch something very in depth- we could just read about that on our own or in our ap bio/chem/what-have-you books) .

    Just because I haven't seen a comment saying this yet, here it is: DFTBA! I LOVE YOU HANK!
    Seriously are there no Nerdfighters here?

  • Ivaylo Todorov

    I love you mate...marry me!

  • noboundryman

    Nice guy, who is obviously quite intelligent, and experienced with chemistry, a subject of paramount (life and death) importance for all people , not just chemists. Understandably the propensity of high schoolers is to take things lightly, and be repulsed by hard work, and seriousness. That is no reason for this highly paid adult, to act like a child. Unfortunately this kind of childish insipid nerdy clowning, is not something that should be encouraged in the field of chemistry which requires tremendous discipline, and serious effort to be successful, as well as a highly developed imagination, and "controlled" sense of humor. These concepts are the most basic in chemistry. Like a building foundation made of "Silly Putty" instead of concrete, the construction is likely to fail in the future. People can enjoy and have humor during serious pursuits, but they must learn (self discipline). The greatest gift to give teens learning chemistry is the gift of (dignity), and self discipline, adult mature self respect. Slow down, and explain the critical complexities, which by themselves, when fully understood by teens, is usually sufficient to light the spark of curiosity. Save your silly childish behavior for the playground, or the video game championships. The challenges that are going to face your generation are very large, and very scary indeed. Quite simply, you do not have the luxury of clowning around. It's your world now, and your lives. I suggest you make the best of it. I wish you the best of luck. Theres always time for laughter when the work is done.