There Are No Gods

There Are No GodsA three-part series of responses by TheraminTrees about his former religious beliefs, and his current non-religious ones - specifically, which divine concepts he affirmatively believe to be false, and which concepts he consider unknowable.

Basically this three-part series looks at: 1. What he believed when he was a theist, 2. Concepts for gods he affirmatively believe do not exist, and 3. Concepts for god he believe to be unknowable.

From the author: I'm gonna try to cover a range of ideas over three videos. It won't be exhaustive, but hopefully it will give a decent enough feel for the scope of where I'm coming from.

What I believed encompassed a lot. My beliefs evolved substantially over my time as a Christian. For brevity I'm gonna break it down into three broad phases.

Watch the full documentary now (playlist - 39 minutes)

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127 Comments / User Reviews

  1. slpsa

    I like the title. Truth straight out of the gate.

  2. nebra

    of course not...every religion is based on imaginary idea of creator to understand the world and give it meaning.these are just primitive fantasies, created by our ancestors...

  3. Winston Smith

    Religious traditions also have a minute mystical component which form the basis of their ultimate meaning.

    Most people spend their lives with their minds turned outwards, going from thought to thought , from emotional reaction to emotional reaction, our whole lives through. Mystics contemplate. and rigorously explore, using time honored techniques, the inner spaces of the mind. Be they Jewish Kabbalists, Buddhist Monks, Sufi, or Christian, tribal, American Indian, or people today who transcend just one tradition and work with elements of many.
    (Work means difficult devotional and meditative practice for many years) come to the same conclusion (only one human mind) and tell us something radically different about the nature of mind and reality than the rest of us are privy to. All experiences happen in the mind so let's not dismiss the mind.
    That this fundamental aspect of human experience does not stand up to the rigors of the scientific method doesnt mean its not an integral part of the human experience. The fact that you, most likely, interpret these child-like texts literally just shows you dont know they were meant to convey key aspects of the human condition* Or, of the nature of mind and phenomena.
    Criticizing those who dont know what they're talking about misses the mark.

    The bible should be taken cognitively and much of it dismissed for what it is. Outdated history and social mores, barbaric morality, and ignorance.

    The esoteric dimensions of these childish and anthropomorphic stories were never meant to be understood by the ignorant and uninitiated (I know millions do today but that is also how it was intended from ancient times/ The most profound knowledge was seen to have power and so was kept secret, -one way or the other
    Obviously, not everything in there is like this. it's a mix that requires a finer brush than a relentless attacking of it's basest, most ignorant, elements.

    *for ex: The Garden of Eden story: Adam Eve & The serpent = matter, space, and energy/awareness. (Much like the Yabb-yum Buddha = space/awareness)
    Creation is seen as a continual process. So this b&w approach to religion is ignorance attacking ignorance. and missing the central apect: the exploration into the deepest meaning of our being via direct experience with our own minds.

  4. Thanakorn Kitticharernkul

    Not EVERY religion.

  5. Allan Young

    "*for ex: The Garden of Eden story: Adam Eve & The serpent = matter, space, and energy/awareness. (Much like the Yabb-yum Buddha = space/awareness)
    Creation is seen as a continual process. So this b&w approach to religion is ignorance attacking ignorance. and missing the central apect: the exploration into the deepest meaning of our being via direct experience with our own minds."

    Yeah, but you could do the same thing with any work of FICTION. So why choose the one which that is "Outdated history and social mores, barbaric morality, and ignorance."?

  6. dehadista

    If you don't believe in God, silly boy.

  7. Dominique Nicole Blagojevic

    This video is making me tired and confused. People who do not believe in God are very brave. I could not do that

  8. oQ

    I can relate to what you say...such as : "Most people spend their lives with their minds turned outwards, going from thought to thought , from emotional reaction to emotional reaction, our whole lives through. Mystics contemplate. and rigorously explore, using time honored techniques, the inner spaces of the mind. Be they Jewish Kabbalists, Buddhist Monks, Sufi, or Christian, tribal, American Indian, or people today who transcend just one tradition and work with elements of many. (Work means difficult devotional and meditative practice for many years) come to the same conclusion (only one human mind) and tell us something radically different about the nature of mind and reality than the rest of us are privy to. All experiences happen in the mind so let's not dismiss the mind."
    Haven't watched the doc though...so may comment later.
    1i

  9. tomregit

    Ok az, I've got to tell you that you saying you relate to something, copying and pasting a paragraph, then informing all you've not watched the doc, must qualify as the most banal comment yet. Neither interesting, enlightening or insightful. When you have something to say, it is often interesting even if I disagree.
    I have at least watched the doc before commenting.

  10. nebra

    is there any special religion i haven't heard of yet?

  11. nebra

    why not..are you afraid of going to hell? no such thing...

  12. oQ

    You're absolutely right!
    I liked what Winston said (in brackets) but could not support the whole comment with a like so that's what i did instead.
    Sorry if it bothered you...i will watch the doc when i have time...not today...and comment especially just for you.
    Many thanks.
    Now what better comment do you have for us?
    1i

  13. malcome jones

    YES, its called Paganism....Its the oldest religion in the world...To be a PAGAN you have to revere real things, like the Sun,Moon,Earth and Nature (maybe they have a point)
    I myself, am happy to be a JEDI

  14. malcome jones

    Wouldn't it be a good idea to watch the documentary, before you comment on it ...Maybe then you would be more informed ?...Just a thought

  15. nebra

    well may the force be with you

  16. malcome jones

    nebra....It is now my mission to convert you to Jedism...
    If you are a CHRISTIAN....You will burn in hell
    if you are a CATHOLIC....you will burn in hell, with the heat turned up
    If you are JEWISH...you will burn in hell, but will be gods chosen few
    if you are MUSLIM,,,you will burn in hell along with your virgins
    if you are BUDDHISTS,,,you will burn in hell , and accept it
    if you are a PAGAN....You will blow the flames out
    If you are a JEDI...you will attend the next star wars convention. right the wrongs of humanity, use your light sabre to smight the evil that is Darth Obama/Romny...and kill the evil emporer Cameron

    Cant think of anyone else to offend,,,,Damn, forgot the Hindus

  17. dewflirt

    Sorry folks, too monotonous for me. Why I'm No Longer A Christian covered this stuff already. I think I've just had enough of God talk so I might be judging it too harshly, might tickle your atheist bone enough to make you watch the other. Enjoy :)

  18. over the edge

    dewflirt
    with so many videos exposing the issues with religion i think finding a new avenue to shed light on if difficult. with that said i enjoyed it. he also does videos with his brother (QualiaSoup - Atheism and Critical Thinking) that might be more to your liking. but to each his/her own.

  19. dewflirt

    You're probably right, think I'm a bit godded out to be honest and I'm waiting for the fireworks to start :)
    Edit, the 5th Nov sort, not the conversational ones !

  20. slpsa

    Pure class. I like it. I like the Pagan thing. LOL!......Ya have to admit, they are practical those Pagans! Like, I am burning, like hey, why not just like, blow them out like..........rofl.....

  21. slpsa

    godded out explains it perfectly. Nice one Dew...I would rather commit a very public seppuku than debate sky fairys lately. It seems like a less painful avenue than suffering delusions.....

  22. Kateye70

    I was wondering why the style seemed so familiar...I liked QualiaSoup's videos, but I do have the same complaint about both--the narration is so fast that by the time I got to the third one I felt a little mentally bludgeoned, even though I agree with everything. There's something to be said for a slightly slower pace that allows the viewer to absorb one point before moving on to the next.

    That said, they both present their points in a very logical (if rapid) fashion.

  23. Christian Klinckwort Guerrero

    The highest level of
    Ignorance

  24. over the edge

    Kateye70
    the one that annoys me is thunderfoot. his why do people laugh at creationists was good but anything else i watched of his just left me annoyed. i am not even sure what it is. i just know i do not like them. if i remember you liked potholer54 "there is no f***ing carbon in that" might i suggest darkmatter2525(god and jeffery). it is not the same humor but similar and slower paced

  25. Marc

    the hindus will light a fire, make an offering to one of their many gods and sing Hare Krishna Hare Rama !!! :0)

  26. Marc

    A word repeated over and over in this presentation is "belief". Belief is an insubstantial mutating mental state that does not prove reality in as much as mere belief in santa claus, tooth fairies or that Michael Jackson is still alive do not prove them real or alive? Belief is insufficient in determining the existence of things / beings we don't see or understand. Chritianity, Islam and Judaism have miserably failed the test of rational and logical probing intelligence. They merely produce 'followers' who are by and large mentally imprisoned by outdated dogmas, fearfful and intolerant of alternative philosophies, who do not undertsand the purpose of rituals they try to perfect and think that their beliefs mark them as an elite and exclusive group entitled to hate others. As long as religions churn out such ignorant and blind followers in the manner the entertainment businesses produce "adoring" and "faithful" fans who "believe" anything they are told about their worshipful idols, atheism appears to be a saner choice. Wow, I don't beleive i just wrote this. Feels good.

  27. Bad_Conduct

    God doesn't have to do things that are "logically possible". God could technically kill himself and not die. God could create a rock he could not lift, and lift it. He is omnipotent. He can do the impossible.

    He's right about God knowing about events, such as the serpent and the flood. But Man did not know, and when we heard Gods word, we personified it.

    Good ending, none-the-less.

  28. dewflirt

    Haha! Nothing like a bit of harakiri to lighten the mood ;)

  29. Kurt OConnor

    I'm still on the Gods part, which ones? The one god that's mentioned, is that one group or what? Is it the Gods from before the dinosaurs?

  30. Achems_Razor

    If your gods can do the impossible, then it would not be impossible would it? Either it is impossible or it is possible, there is no in-between, like maybe.

    Some things that your gods cannot do...
    Judges 1:109
    Mark 6:5
    Hebrews 6:18

  31. Kateye70

    Thanks for the recommendation, very entertaining!

  32. Mars Sentinel

    yes there is. except its adherents don't talk about it in a way you could understand. it has no priests, no dogma, no ritual or rule. it has a moral and philosophical grounding, and a few ethical principles that are considered self-evident. it has no hell, no punishment, no reward but the only one that matters: truth.

  33. nebra

    oh you mean buddhism?

  34. slpsa

    How many doobs did it take for you to spew that out mate? hehe....

  35. Zebram Zee

    Does Buddhism have a moral code? I'm still confused on that. From everything I've read on it, my impression is still that they divide things into 'natural' and 'not natural' instead of 'moral'/'immoral'

  36. Zebram Zee

    There are no ethical principles that are 'self-evident'. Just making the assertion that something is self evident is an excuse for not having to give any evidence.

  37. nebra

    from what i heared it does...they have these five precepts wich they live by and are the basis of buddhist morality. its not even a religion more like way of life.

  38. Alexandru Matei

    There are no Gods, there are only enlightened people.

    God means love, Univers, oneness ...

  39. malcome jones

    If thats what lights their candle and floats their boat, then good luck to them...Live and let live !

  40. malcome jones

    Glad to see someone has a sense of humor when commenting on religious documentary's, who also has a tolerant and mental approach ....I think we are both mental....Damn, now ive offended people with "special needs" and half of the people that comment on this site !!!

  41. malcome jones

    "Every man who wages war believes God is on his side. I'll warrant God should often wonder who is on his."

  42. Pysmythe

    "God is on the side of the big battalions."

  43. malcome jones

    Sorry, but that comment went way over my head...Please explain

  44. Pysmythe

    It's just a classic quote of Voltaire's, who is one of my favorite historical figures. Cynical and witty (and still more than relevant), I think it simply means that, in the eyes of men and their rationals for their brutalities, might makes right... as far as they are concerned.

  45. malcome jones

    Now i look like a fool (i thought Voltaire won the pole vault at the Olympics).....But i take your point, nice to get some informed, rational, intelligent comments....Oliver Cromwell was one of my favorite historical figures...Hence the comment

  46. Pysmythe

    Although Voltaire was a deist and a huge champion of human rights and reason, and probably wouldn't have found too much he could agree with in Cromwell's militarism and religious belief, if you tweak your head around the two quotes just right, you can see how his might in fact support Cromwell's contention, at least somewhat, which is why I thought I'd mention it.

  47. over the edge

    malcome jones
    i removed your other post and ask you to read the comment policy.. attack a persons argument not the person. consider this your warning

  48. Bad_Conduct

    Depends what you consider to be impossible, I guess. I mean, flying was impossible until we invited flight. Some people just don't believe in impossibilities, and that's understandable. Mankind has made some great achievements in fields considered impossible at one point.

    If God changed the Universe, the world around you, the people you know, the places you've been and all of your memories, you would never know.

    Just because it's impossible, doesn't mean it's forever. Everything God does could have been impossible until the moment it is done. He is God. If you bring him one notch below God, and give him possibilities and contradictions, than he's no longer God.

    I am certainly not defending religion. I'm simple saying God is what it is. You will never understand Gods intentions. It will take the whole species, working together or many many generations to really determine if there is a God or not. Playing with words in the Bible doesn't really prove more than how language has advanced in 1000 years, translations aren't perfect and perspectives on science and beliefs have changed.

    My questions with the bible is always intent. I don't think the authors had any intention of deceiving anyone. I believe they wrote a history of civilization to the best of their knowledge. By the time of Jesus, civilization was so diverse it would have been impossible to keep record in one book.

    I don't think the problem with the Bible is that God does not exist. It's that whatever the word for "God" refers to is inaccurate. I think it's a reference to the natural order, or the nature of the universe. Things like coincidences and ironies. When "it is so", it's an event that happened. No one understands why such a strange event happened, so they use God as a way to describe it.

    If people want to imagine a cartoon figure of Mankind in heaven moving clouds, than it's rather easy to say "That is false". But the movie author is simply creating his own interpretation of God, based on his personal believes, than disproving himself. If you have a different view of what God is, than it may not be as easily disproven.

    If the answer to if there was a God or not was so simple, we could all just suddenly realize it was false, than people would do just that. Look at the moon landing. When we landed on the moon, everyone believed it. 50 years later, some people are skeptical of it and others still defend it, most of them weren't on the moon and never will be. Many of them did not watch it on TV. There's all kinds of recorded evidence, but it just isn't good enough. Biblical study is exactly the same. There's a lot of evidence for many of the stories and time lines, but none of the main figures are alive today to tell us.

    And even if they were, the hybrid, poorly exposed language they spoke would be impossible to interprete. Mondern English uses so many descriptive words, names and jargon from other languages now that it has far surpassed the level of complexity it was at 100 years ago. Education and literacy across the planet are a massive culture change from biblical times. Even the Biblical author was most likely developing his own spelling, as I doubt there was a proper dictionary to quote from.
    Or maybe there was?

  49. Bad_Conduct

    Mark 6:5

    Pick the translation you wish to not believe, I guess. The line is so vague, anything could be real. I found 100 different versions of the Bible with their own wording. I guess they rewrite the lines to make more sense.

    Without any circumstance evidence, that line leaves everything to the imagination. You need to read the whole story, than it's pretty obvious.

    If everyone's faith in God and Jesus depended on him performing miracles and not his humble lifestyle, than it would fade when he passed away. He wanted people to believe in his Word and took the most humble and human approach possible.

    It makes sense as a story. It's self-explanatory really.

  50. Alexandru Matei

    If people can't talk to God (only schizophrenics do) then how was the Bible written? It's simple, the Bible is a humanly invention to manipulate the masses.

  51. slpsa

    I think I scared my bad nerdy self, when I looked at those links. I actually understood more than half of what they were talking about.

  52. Achems_Razor

    Ha,Ha, that's good, I am known to put on links that are easy to understand and assimilate.

  53. Bad_Conduct

    Where's the evidence that it was created for the intention of manipulation?

  54. Philip Camilleri

    "Our Father who art in Heaven.............................".

  55. Peter_Sweden

    IT'S 2012 !!! How the hell can ANYONE with a IQ over the limit that makes one smart enough to turn door nob, ever consider the possibility that there might be something like gods...for real? I mean.. wtf! Use your heads! I read your posts. You are smart people. You express yourself so well! (i can't, but english is not my native language) You are born in the a modern western world, for crying out loud! Take of the blindfolds and stop this madness. It's not sane! I bet you would believe i santa claus as well if someone brought you up kept the myth and made sure you get deceived every year! That is not so far of there! I've had it! Insane! Amen!
    _______________________________________________________________
    ** Good people will behave well. Bad people will behave badly.
    However, it takes religion to make otherwise good people behave badly. **
    ________________________________________________________________

  56. Peter_Sweden

    "I am now convinced that children should not be subjected to the frightfulness of the christian religion . . . If the concept of a father who plots to have his own son put to death is presented to children as beautiful and as worthy of society's admiration, what types of human behavior can be presented to them as reprehensible?"
    - Ruth Hurmence Green

  57. Clear W

    Alexander the Great's mother Olympias believed that before her consummation of her marriage to Philip she got pregnant with her son thanks to a thunder bolt and because Zeus was considered to be the god of thunder, she believed Alexander was his son and not Philip. Science, or more accurately historical records, prove that Alexander existed. That does not mean that he was conceived by a thunder bolt instead of the usual way that I and you were born. All science (historical records) prove that there may have been a preacher called Jesus who gathered a devoted group of followers who then spread his words which later on became a new religion, Christianity. Historical records proving Jesus existed does not mean that it proves he was back from the dead or that he cured people simply by touching them or that he walked on water. Jesus is a diety only because he supposedly did those things. And historical proofs about those claims are as good as Olympias' claims that she got pregnant by a thunder bolt. And just because she did not confide in someone that it was a lie or admit to it on her deathbed does not make it the truth.

    I am not an atheist but let me show you where your reasoning/justification is wrong. Let us take your "car" example. That would be true if you knew you built the car. But the thing is...there is a car...and you are saying someone built it..the other guy is saying it just came about accidentally...he has no proof showing that it came about accidentally nor do you have any proof that it was built by someone. Christians believe that Bible is the word of God. It is literal. Being a Christian means declaring Bible to be the word of God, just as being a Muslim means Koran is the word of God or being a Jew means believing God receited Torah to Moses while being a Hindu means Bhagvad Gita was receited by Krishna. Either the Bible is a word of God or it is a fiction. It does not "vaguely describe" anything. In order to "vaguely descrive" an event, you have to have a vague idea about it in the first place. But since it was written billions of years after the event (ie creation of universe) it cannot vaguely describe it simply because the writers were not alive when the event took place, nor did they know anyone alive when the event took place. It is either the word of God (for believers) or a fancy of some guy(s) (to non-believers)

    Again, you say that Bible is describing God...but how did the writers of the book know about God? It all comes back to the same point...to describe something, you have to know about it..but the writers did not see God...they simply wrote what they wanted God to be...and they wrote that God is so powerful, that He created the universe simply by saying various things were there (world, day, night, light, man, animals etc) And they meant in in the literal sense. For nearly 2,000 years, Bible was a fact, Christian God was a fact. It is only now (for the past 100-150 years) that all this talk about interpretations have come about because science has clearly showed that the universe, and not just the world, was not formed in the way the Bible tells us.

  58. a_no_n

    Actually there isn't any real evidence of 'Jesus'.

    The Romans kept meticulous records of things going on in the empire, especially the newly conquered middle east...Yet through all of Roman writing at the time, there isn't a single word about either Jesus, his miracles or his sermons...The only evidence for Jesus is in the bible, which was written hundreds of years after his supposed demise.

    There's more evidence for Luke skywalker than there is for Jesus Christ!

  59. a_no_n

    unless of course your the Dalhi Llama and you come from a culture of slave takers...That little truth can get buried without any moral concequence

  60. nebra

    im not quite sure what you mean by that?

  61. Bad_Conduct

    1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

    K. Where does it mention God creating the Universe, or did you just make them up and prove your interpretation of the bible to be incorrect?

    You seem to be very good at debating religious people. But if it's not in the Bible, you can't say the Bible is wrong. Yes, religion is wrong. But most of what religion claims to be true, isn't in the Bible either. The Bible never said Dinosaurs are fake, nor does it claim they are real. If I don't mention Russia in the paragraph, does that mean I don't believe in Russia?

    You are contradicting yourself. The Bible never explains how the Earth was created, other than God create it. No one understands fully how the Earth was created, and you can't say for a fake there are no Gods. Seems like you enjoy the endorphin rush of debating religion more then trying to forward society or philosophical thinking.

  62. Bad_Conduct

    How can you say there's no evidence for Jesus?

    If you can't believe Roman writing, than what do you believe? He was just a normal person until decades after his death.

    What evidence do you expect a humble man with no possession who barely lived to 35 leave behind, anyway? Like, what "missing link" are you waiting for to prove the existence of Jesus? How many dead Jews from the Holocaust left nothing behind, does that mean they don't exist? I am sure a lot of Jews lost family members and have nothing left in their memory, other the stories they tell. That's what happens when you are part of an ethnic minority.
    What would his skull and a DNA test prove? What do we compare the DNA too? It's impossible to find better evidence for Jesus.

    Of course there''s no good "evidence" for Jesus because he was a poor Jew with no possessions and most likely illiterate. You're expectations of evidence are too high, because of your desire to disbelieve.

    Roman writing said he existed, there's no reason for them to lie in a text book. End debate.

  63. Bad_Conduct

    Can you source that Alexander story? Did that originate before or after he became a war hero? And that's the same with Jesus, I completely agree. You will never know if he performed the miracles or not, but it's ultimately irrelevant. Following anything or anyone other than God or building an idol from anything is strictly against the word of God, according to the Bible.

    The Bible can be the "word of God" and still vague. Most people just read between the lines anyway and interpret the Bible anyway they want. I guess that's kind of the power of the Bible, maybe that's why it's the message from God. If the Bible is taken literally, it's still vague. You need to study and interpret the whole thing. And even so, our knowledge of the original languages have faded and changed. Words have different meanings in modern context.

    I can prove people just make up things, like "God created the Earth in 7 days"

    1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
    2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
    3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
    4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
    5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

    God didn't define what a Day was until after he created the Earth. Humans can't measure or understand time before that, it could have taken a billion years. I think the 7 day part after is a description of the work week calendar we use today.
    Day 1. Build
    Day 2. Gather fresh water.
    Day 3. Water the crops.
    Day 4. Work outdoors.
    Day 5. Fish and Hunt
    Day 6. Tend to live stock; romance.
    Day 7. Rest.

    Humans are animals, with limitations. If I built my fish a Fish tank, they can't comprehend that. They can understand how the environment works and functions, but the factory that built the tank will always remain unknown to them. They will never see it in their life time, and if they did, they would never understand how it functions.

    There are a lot of books that are based on fact and claim to be the truth, even if they are proved inaccurate years later. Church can say whatever it wants to about the Bible, but again, God told us not to follow idols. The Bible is not God, it's a book about God. It's an idol.

    Wiki - "In the Gospel of Matthew 19:16–19, Jesus repeated five of the Ten Commandments,...". He skips a few for obvious reasons.

    8 "'You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
    9 You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
    10 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.

  64. Achems_Razor

    @Bad_Conduct:

    Okay, here we go again, why is it most of you religious people finally resort to ad hominem, to tell me what I enjoy or not, or whom I am trying or not to forward, none of your business.

    And another thing, philosophy bakes no bread!

  65. Myra McQueen

    Very true to an extent. As Paul said in his epistles, "There are gods many, and lords many." But they are after power, money, and prestige. The truth is that those who look for the true Creator, know that money is "unrighteous mammon,"and power is not service, and desire for prestige is selfish gain

  66. Mark Broomer

    to stupid for scinece, try religion.

  67. KsDevil

    The closed mind will never watch or understand this doumentary. The open mind already understand this documentary. Best to just leave those people alone.
    It is only the questioning mind that would see any value.
    So, get out there and begin making people question everything. Spread doubt across the planet.
    Then point them to Top Documentary Films for answers.

  68. a_no_n

    I can say it with relative ease, because it's the truth!
    i'm sorry, but No! Saying there are Roman writings about Jesus is a Lie i'm afraid, it just isn't true!

    According to the bible Jesus held sermons to thousands of people, performed miracles in front of hordes of people too...Yet despite all of this there isn't a single piece of written evidence for him before the bible which wasn't written until LONG after the fact.

    Roman writing only says he existed after Constantine converted the empire to christianity! There are NO mentions of Jesus anywhere in Roman writing from around the time of his supposed life.

    It's not about desire to disbelieve, it's about Evidence, of which there is none...Even though Zealots like you do the best you can to be as dishonest as possible and muddy the waters of history to make it seem like there's evidence for your fairy tales!
    Ugh, even dragging the holocaust into it for the sake of making a point...you religious types really don't have very firm morals or ethics do you?

  69. Bad_Conduct

    I'm not religious at all. Does that make you a hypocrite?

  70. Bad_Conduct

    Plutarch died in 120 AD. Way after Alexander the Great's time. It's as historically accurate as "Passion of the Christ"

  71. Bad_Conduct

    "i'm sorry, but No! Saying there are Roman writings about Jesus is a Lie i'm afraid, it just isn't true!"

    Wiki
    Josephus scholar Louis H. Feldman has stated that "few have doubted the genuineness" of Josephus' reference to Jesus in Antiquities 20, 9, 1 and it is only disputed by a small number of scholars.[39][40][41][42] Bart D. Ehrman states that the existence of Jesus and his crucifixion by the Romans is attested to by a wide range of sources, including Josephus and Tacitus

    Again; what evidence do you want for Jesus performing miracles to uneducated illiterate minority groups?

  72. Bad_Conduct

    And again; I'm not religious. Declaring yourself an atheist doesn't immediately make you a good critical thinker. I think that's what bother's me most about these videos. He seems to think rejecting God some how made all the answers more obvious. It's just not true, you can discredit all human research, science and knowledge. Regardless of it's source. Fact is; we don't know the nature of the Universe. If the Author describes it as being "God", than that certainly makes it easy to understand.

    God is a literally device. Religious nuts, and over-zealous atheists both believe God is some living creature that dictates the Universe. You're both wrong.

  73. Bad_Conduct

    " You are splitting hairs here. " It's implied, but where does it say that in the Bible? People interpret the Bible their way. You can add your meaning to any sentence.

    I'm not saying it was written as fiction, but I won't see it's entirely accurate. It's not detailed enough to be accurate historically. It's merely a collection of moral stories.

    The Harry Potter thing is crap. You are assuming that mankind is so stupid, we forget that a fictional story is fiction in less than 30 years. There's must have been enough evidence to convince the Roman Empire to convert to Christianity, even if that evidence no longest exists.

    You are right about Jesus. But look what he started.

    "And no...it cannot be the "word of God" (however vague) nor can it describe God for the simple reason because it was written by man and those who wrote it were not in communication with God nor they have seen God."

    OK, Man wrote it with God's inspiration (in a literary sense) But obviously it exists, so it is the Word of God. As are many things.

  74. Vlatko

    @Bad_Conduct,

    Jesus probably existed as a figure, but there is no written evidence for the person described in the Bible. None.

    At one point you ask: What evidence do you expect a humble man with no possession who barely lived to 35 leave behind, anyway?

    Well, for a man who healed the sick, raised the dead, fed thousands of people with few fish and a bread, walked on water, foretold the future, came back from the dead, etc., I would expect some sort of credible evidence outside of the Bible. Instead he is mentioned as a footnote in other sources. I wonder why is that?

    The story is exactly the same with all other major religions, especially the abrahamic religions.

    You're may not be a religious and probably you're not imagining God as living creature that dictates the Universe, but from your comments I assume you envision him as an unknown force of some kind. Universal consciousness maybe?

  75. Achems_Razor

    Are you an ID proponent?

  76. a_no_n

    And i stand by that statement.
    that particular piece you talk about is heavily disputed as to it's authenticity, it's also a single piece of evidence in a mindnumbingly big void of no evidence...I'm afraid that it isn't anywhere near solid proof for the existence of Jesus.

  77. Amun-Ra

    Just to make it absolutely clear. Even if such a person named "Jesus" existed around that time, and even if he was able to do things that common people, even now, are not capable of, it doesn't prove that he's a son of God or that any of his teachings are absolute moral truths. You still have a lot of work ahead of you to make this stick as solid evidence.

  78. ManoSeco

    Hello everyone!

    These conversations about who Jesus was or wasnt seem to go on forever... But for those of you looking for some facts i want to ask if you ever heard about the Talpiot temple in Jerusalem? If not you should look it up because it is crazy what they found there... They found a temple with 10 graves with names on 6 of them. Among these 6, Jesus, Mary, Joseph, Mary Magdalene(some claim) were there, along with 2 more relatives. This is really crazy stuff... And you will ask, how can they be sure that it was Jesus's family? Well, they cant. But they can make a probabilistic approach regarding the types of names they had back then and make a calculation of the probability of having the names of jesus's relatives all toghether there, as well as for the number of families having those names in the same family...And, of course, families where a guy named jesus had a wife named Mary Magdalene (in the old jewish tradition the wife was burried alonside the husband, and that is what they found in the Talpiot Temple, a guy named Jesus and a girl named Mary Magdalene, burried side to side), and this really narrows the odds... And in the book i read it there was an explanation to it: so, some biblical archeologists claim that the documentation available regarding Jesus's time (reliable one, because according to archeologists it is very difficult to trace back reliable sources, because things have been re-written over time according to different interests. For example, they claim they have found more than 430000 transcription erros in the bible, between accindental and intetional...crazy...they use some techniques to identiffy the erros, such as type of paint available at the time and others.) tells that Jesus was an apocalyptic jew who believed that the end of the world was near and that God will return to earth to rule the planet. And he would do it from Salomon's temple. So, based upon this beliefs all apocalyptic jews wanted to be burried close to the temple, where God will return and rule.
    It seems like a crazy story, but it seems likely to me. From what i understood of the things i've read and seen about biblical archeology the apostles didnt even know how to read( since writing was only for a few privileged); since they were poor people from Galilea, how could they have writen anything? And the first written source regarding Jesus's only comes 60 b.c...how come?

    There is a documentary about the temple called The Lost Tomb of Jesus.

    Cheers

  79. Bad_Conduct

    God is a metaphor, for how the Universe functions in ways which cannot be explained. There is a Biblical God, because events just happen without explanation sometimes. That's the point they are trying to bring across.

    The word "God" has a meaning, and that meaning exists. Therefor; God exists. He does not exist if you change the meaning of the word "God".

    It's just like Gravity. Even if we find a theory that disproves Gravity, that does mean Gravity no longer exists. It just does not function the way we assumed it did, and we may assign a new word to describe it. Language is just a language.

    I don't envision God, because you can't envision something like God. It's a literary explanation of the unknown. It's a simple term used by a simple group of people with a simple language. It is not a person in a cloud who created the Universe, that's just how God has been re imagined when we try to come to terms with such a simple word.

    We use God is a linguistic sense all the time, atheist or not. "Act of God" is the proper use of the word "God". There are perfectly valid and honest scientific explanations for all the events that God does.

    No word in the English language exists, in the sense that it is real beyond humanity. It's just a system of categorization that becomes more and more complicated as time goes on. You can't simply label God as being a living, thinking creature because you are categorizing him in the wrong place.

    It's very simple. The Bible was never written for the intention of misleading or controlling. If you pick and choose what you want to read, than you will come with a different conclusion. But it clearly says, early in the Bible...

    "You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,"

    This is absolutely accurate, at least to me. When you become religious or follow any idol that isn't God itself, than it's very likely your children and your grandchildren will also follow this religion. It's a clear example when you see how many atheists on here come from very religious families.

    And again; you are looking for evidence from a poor individual who was disliked by the majority of his own people, and the majority of the ruling class. What evidence do you expect there would be? What makes you think it wasn't intentionally destroyed by Jews, Pagans or Muslims in 2,000 years?

    You are "splitting hairs" looking for evidence, when there has clearly been (and still is) a campaign to disprove him.

    Even if Jesus is the Son of God, he is not to be worshiped. Only learned from.

  80. Vlatko

    @Bad_Conduct,

    So basically you believe in the God of the Bible, but in some different way, which is expected, because the Bible can be and is interpreted variously across the believers.

    You say you're not religious, but it seems you're indeed very religious person, since you claim to know what God is and what he isn't. It is beyond me how can someone even attempt to claim that he knows what God actually is and what he isn't. And don't tell me this isn't true. Re-read your comment before doing that.

    The word "Spaghetti Monster" also exists. Would you claim solely on that fact that the real Spaghetti Monster exists too.

    You also attempt to make analogy between something which is in the domain of science and your God. Why would you do that? Your God is imaginary, exists only in the minds of the followers, it is a meme. On the other hand Gravity is real. Even if Gravity works in entirely different way, it is still real. It can be measured, can put forward predictions, it is mathematically quantified, etc. I hope you understand that your analogy is not suited for the argument you're trying to make.

    At one point you say: There are perfectly valid and honest scientific explanations for all the events that God does. Can I challenge you to point out these scientific explanations in favor of your God. Why no one didn't bring this up before?

    You also say: The Bible was never written for the intention of misleading or controlling. If you pick and choose what you want to read, than you will come with a different conclusion.

    If you read the whole Bible you'll soon realize that it was inspired by illiterate desert tribes who wanted to dominate the area, and indeed was written to mislead and control. Besides that, it was written to do many other bad things. Secondly, it is clear from your quote above, that you read what you want to read from the Bible, which is dishonest. If you, led by your bias, cherry pick what you want to read, you'll just reinforce you biased opinions.

    And then, you of course quote your Bible, as expected, and you interpret the verse as you wish. Instead of realizing that there is one big fallacy in the quote, you're trying to justify it. Why would an omnipotent and omnipresent God (as described by the Bible) be jealous in the first place, and why would he threaten his "chosen" people?

    At the end you say: What makes you think it wasn't intentionally destroyed by Jews, Pagans or Muslims in 2,000 years? I would ask you the contrary: What makes you think that the evidence was intentionally destroyed 2000 years ago?

  81. Amun-Ra

    Just read what I said once again to get the point.

  82. demep

    You know, is kinda pointless try to define God. You should only feel IT. You know what I am talking about. Don't take everything for granted, even your intelligence. Forget religion. Only feel it.

  83. Itolduso

    I give this .doc. a 9.5. It would be a ten but the narrator spoke too fast!

  84. Itolduso

    " The only real difference between my opinion and your opinion, is that I won't throw out a 2,000 year old tradition simply because it doesn't fit my lifestyle."
    Actually, the real difference between your opinion and mine is that I believe that today's religion is tomorrow's mythology.. You however, believe bronze age superstition.
    Your 2000 year old tradition has brought the world wars, dark ages and inquisitions! Right! Keep those traditions Santa_Claus!

  85. Devon Griffiths

    You say:

    "The word "God" has a meaning, and that meaning exists. Therefor; God exists."

    The word "leprechaun" has a meaning too. Does that mean leprechauns exist (as anything other than a fantasy)?

  86. Bad_Conduct

    Is a "leprechaun" described as anything other than a fantasy? No. Does that mean that leprechauns exist in the way they are described? Absolutely. God is described as a series of related and unexplainable events.

  87. Vlatko

    @Bad_Conduct,

    I didn't see your response posted some time ago and I think it deserves an answer.

    1. No need to throw out your tradition. You can just look at ti honestly. To do that you need to start studying literature outside of the Bible ASAP. Mandatory read should be Forged: Writing in the Name of God by Bart D. Ehrman. You'll soon realize that half of what you've read so far is a complete lie a.k.a forgery.

    2. You're taking the words too literally. Instead of "Spaghetti Monster" or a "leprechaun" think about the African God BUMBA - the mighty Creator God of Vomit. He is also described as a series of related and unexplained events (apparently he vomited the Earth). And so the other 28,000 Gods that ever existed so far. Many of them are now dead. Why we should be concerned with your God?

    3. Your rant about the bear and the bamboo can only qualify as apologetic attempt to insert mysticism where there is none. The case is simple. Where is the evidence for your God? Why would you mix science and God?

    4. God is an invention of man as is the language itself. And it is far from clear and meaningful description of something. Apparently you have another definition for "clear" and "meaningful."

    5. This is my second attempt to urge you to read something outside of the Bible. Who wrote it, why, who decided what's going to be included etc. What was the historical context etc. True, in the first four centuries Christians were persecuted by the Jews, Pagans, and there were persecutions within the Christianity itself among many different sects that spawn. It was an obvious political battle of who's going to be the best animator of the gullible. Not very different than today.

    6. Get real, gravity is real, and it is measured and can give predictions. If we ever discover that it works in a different way, that doesn't make it unreal, and it will be still measured and it will still mathematically predict events. We can't say the same about your God, can we?

    7. At the end what you say is just the same old apologetic stunt that is offered very frequently on the net by the religious people. And it is only a stunt, nothing more.

    P.S. Get that book "Forged" and start reading it as soon as possible.

  88. Devon Griffiths

    Well *we* describe it as a fantasy - but it wasn't always described as one. There are many, many folk superstitions that people believed which are no different - "a series of related and unexplainable events"

    Thunder gods, goblins, warlocks who cursed crops - all of these were to the people of the time, "a series of related and unexplainable events" ... the tribal god of the Hebrews was just one of many things people believed about the world around them in primitive times.

    Did all of these things exist in the way they were described at the time? Did they stop existing just because they came to be understood differently - or were they just things people thought existed, in order to explain things they were not capable of understanding?

  89. Bad_Conduct

    Source please. When are leprechauns claimed to be real?

  90. ervispaloka

    i was going to greece in the summer and next to me on the plane was a guy who looked like jesus. he saw me reading a book and struck a conversation, turns out he studied textiles and was looking into the jesus (oh the irony) phenomena that he had one great big long piece of cloth that he wrapped around his body. and he was adamant that any person back in the roman times had to be really rich to afford a cloth of that sort of luxury. so his conclusion was twofold. one, that he was fictional, that his relief of earthly possesions was bulls*it and couldnt have got his hands on expensive gear like that, and two, that he was given it as a gift
    just thought to share :D
    peaceeee

  91. hum-ur-tum

    The questions which has asked from audience even they do not have the answers so all claims that there is no GOD, I wonder why should to believe him because I am not person who will say Yes when all say Yes.
    Now my question is, if the life cycle is dependent to each other then why not to believe that this lifecycle is dependent to someone, this someone name is Allah (GOD) and this guy lost his faith so he is beating the dump that there is not GOD without any "authentic proof".

  92. Ashwin Acharya

    why should life cycle depend on something? it is full by itself!

  93. communicationbreakdown

    Everything in a life cycle must live and die (even the Sun). God does not live or die. Therefore God is not dependent on the life cycle. The best way I could understand God, is that God is everything right down to the atom. God is not a person or a thing but the cylce it self.
    Humans are dependent on survival by the means of communication. Are brain transmitts are senses on what is right or wrong.
    (Eg. You put your hand over a flame it burns and your senses tell you this is wrong).
    If we can't communicate proparly in ways we understand(right or wrong) then we can not survive.
    A belief is like guessing, it does not give us a right or wrong communication with are senses. The only thing belief gives us is a question.
    When we question something we us science to determine right or wrong. People us science without even knowing it.
    If God is a personal someone, we would easily be able to communicate with God without question.
    We wouldn't need religions, every human being would understand the same way. Just like a baby cries (communicates) when it needs help from mother.

    Beliefs grind with are nerves because it leaves us with discontent. Even people you believe in God still deep down, are discontent.
    When people know when something is right or wrong (proven) its extremly releaving to the mind and body.
    We simply move on with life in peace.

    We all know what happens when people are discontent. History has documented that very well.

  94. Trevis Robotie

    geniale!just great!

  95. Sam Smith

    thank you for not offending us Pastafarians, the Flying Spaghetti Monster does not take kindly to interweb nonsense...

  96. kicknbak60

    if you wish to make an apple pie from scratch you must first create the universe.. if we are going to debate god.. then we must first define "god"

  97. Nikita Kade

    The man who believes he knows all the answers is missing at least one...

  98. Nikita Kade

    Lovely to see a Voltaire fan here...Have you ever heard of Ayaan Hirsi Ali?

  99. Pysmythe

    I had not until just now. I read her Wikipedia article, and I can see how she's very much like a modern-day Voltaire, going up against religious fanatics perfectly willing to brutally kill her for her views. It's sad and infuriating that anyone still has to endure that kind of insanity...
    A very brave woman.

  100. dewflirt

    Hitch liked her, she replaced him in the second 4horsemen chat :)

  101. Pysmythe

    I'd very much like to see that one, too, but I don't see it on youtube. You know where I can find it?

  102. dewflirt

    The Three Horsemen and One Horsewoman keen talks ;)

  103. James Maxie

    carl sagon u should of named him with his quote thanks for quoting suck a great man though that made my day seeing your comment

  104. Nikita Kade

    Her three books are phenomenal. One is a collection of essays, and the other two (not sure if I'm allowed to mention the names here) are stunning memoirs, beginning with her childhood in Muslim Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia, and Kenya, and continuing to Holland when she fled a marriage to a total stranger arranged by her father. Her story from there is breathtaking; she is a huge fan of Voltaire and the Enlightenment, a brillliant, intrepid thinker---but then, I should let you have the pleasure of discovering that on your own...

  105. Pysmythe

    I finally bought myself a Kindle (Fire HD) two weeks ago. I'll have to look up some of her stuff.

  106. Nikita Kade

    Go for it...She is surely controversial; what we call the Left and Right in this country each have their reasons for liking or hating her...but as I'm such a fan, I'd be interested in hearing your opinion...

  107. Robert D Weese

    All religions are unnecessary, and all Man made GOD's and god's are absent, do to them not existing to begin with. There is however something..... there is some force that causes all things in our reality to follow Mathematical laws... I have spent an overwhelming amount of my life investigating this in depth. At 44 years old, I can say this...... Something is responsible for the apparent infinite Universe, and all that's in it, a Creator... I am afraid however that you, and I, our existence, and our lives hopes, and dreams are simply irrelevant to this Creator...

  108. Richard Kaczmarczyk

    The big flaw with this document is not the logic or the critical thinking of the arguments, but with the overuse of esoteric language and ideas designed for a masters or doctoral degree, or so it seems, delivered at a high rate of speed. This, thus limits edification too a small portion of the population, that can comprehend the level of the language and ideas, as well as the pace of presentation: otherwise, the ideas and evidence seem very solid and support the concluding argument.

  109. Richard Kaczmarczyk

    We have defined "god", what's your point?

  110. signalfire1

    Amen! Err, I mean, Well Said :)

  111. signalfire1

    Read Joseph Atwell, or look at one of his videos, for a very astute discussion of how Josephus was hired by the Romans to invent Jesus, including post-dated 'prophecies coming true'; The Romans had a big problem with the Jews and invented Jesus to one: fulfill their prophecy of a Messiah, and two: to make sure it was a pacifist Messiah (turn the other cheek) and still advocated paying taxes to Rome (render onto Caesar what is Caesars). Worked quite well, except for hundreds of years later when the Inquisition started...

    If Josephus was the first to mention Jesus and that was over 50 years after the supposed crucifixion, the whole thing falls apart right there. Surely a miracle worker would have had contemporaneous eyewitnesses writing everything down. 50 years later is plenty of time to get a hoax going.

  112. signalfire1

    You are apparently the stoned one, since a simple intelligent sentence is beyond your abilities...

  113. PLOTCH

    No one really knows the answers for sure. Plenty of theory but we still ask ourselves why and how did the universe and life really come to exist and why? We simply do not know. We keep looking for the answers and that is the centuries old quest that will continue.

  114. slpsa

    it was a joke mate. and one simple sentence, does not appear to be a paragraph. from my educationalk awareness anyways. Can noone joke about **** anymore?

  115. Alma

    You are calling people stupid for beleving in God.thats rude!i say to you: is iT logical for a paper factory to explode and as a result we get. a perfect Dictionary?

  116. Alma

    Actually i am from THE netherlands,and Hirsi Ali is here steen as a lowly person that lied to delibertly to THE govt which she was a part of ,made enormous mistakes while on job ,and to forget supporter openly an extreme right party.at THE end she flex to THE us to wrok for a think Tank aka top 1% elite that is thinking of THE ways how to keep THE generaal population enslaved.

  117. Pysmythe

    Thanks for THE input and THE clarification. :)

  118. Alma

    You are welcome ( hope iT was all clear,im just now seeing so much typo's lol )

  119. vizion17x

    unfortunately that the poster of this video had been cultivated with
    information and data that he was unable to internalize properly and out
    of disappointment has stepped into the vibratory frequency of the
    unbelieving unfaithful and opposes of ethereal truth
    one cant
    comprehend fully the infinite with the finite mind or the divine with
    carnal mind theses states of consciousness exist on on different realms
    two different types of math are require one carnal and the other
    spiritual, we cant use basic addition to solve a geometry equation
    just as a first grader is unlearned to do a college assignment yet a
    college student is mentally developed to do the simpler assignment. this
    is the frame work of this point of view.
    The poster of this video is
    spiritual under developed im not making this statement to insult or
    attack the character of the speaker on this topic. he speaks and uses
    view points and illustration out of contexts not considering the
    allegories and metaphoric properties of the illustration to teach great
    lessons to developed the soul the inner being the true self. for surely
    this soul that speaks is learned and intellectually developed yet
    simplicity reveal much.
    enclosing when we deny that the creator exist
    we deny a portion of our own existence. The teaching teach that from
    the unseen the seen manifested, from the akasha fields all that we see
    has eternally existed there yet through time and the development of
    consciousness and the unfolding of our purpose in the due coarse of time
    from the mind of the Source, the infinite Consciousness which has been
    labeled or describe as God here in the west has purpose entwined with
    our experience.
    Question has anyone seen or touch the consciousness
    within your own vehicle vessel or Temple since im thinking logical i
    think not yet does it mean that consciousness doesnt exist Because we
    havent seen God to our inner standing or Because we havent communicate
    in a conversation that is acceptable to us with GOD, GOMEZ OZ DABAR
    doesnt that truly mean that There Is no Creator no INTELLIGENT
    Designer? Are we here on this expectation to the earth realm with no
    purpose only to do as we will? unbelievable yet im a firm believer in
    that we can agree to disagree

    PEACE

    THE TEACHING TEACH; PEACE BE STILL AND KNOW THAT I AM THAT I AM

  120. coryn

    It is said that man is made in God's image. What could that possibly mean? Does God sweat and bleed like we do? Does God get hungry? Well, we know a God can get angry, but can a God run out of breath, or get sleepy? Can anyone give me some examples of how humans are 'made in God's image'? What could that possibly mean? But the really tough thing for me to understand is why a 'God' would create creatures that must eat other creatures, creatures also created by God, just to stay alive. And for thousands of years it was quite possible that if you had to eat another human to stay alive, well, that was likely done. Take a day off and watch all the creatures of nature go about their ways, searching out and eating, usually alive, some other creature. So does God eat other creatures to stay 'alive'. Does God ever sleep? How could he listen to millions of prayers at the same time? Does God ever need medicine? When a priest molests young children, does God punish the priest, or is it the children who suffer for a lifetime while the priest gets transferred to Rome?

    And of course: "Well, where did God come from? Is God born of a 'mother' God? Or born at all? Maybe God has always been here. Hmmmmmmm...............

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