True Islam

True IslamIn medieval times, the unwavering belief that the world was flat led to riots, isolation, and even death to those who dared to contest this fallacy.

Misconceptions and myths can be dangerous. Today, this same ignorance and intolerance has led to a backlash against Islam and Muslims. Support should be provided for the spread of True Islam, which is a religion of love, friendship, peace and brotherhood, and for its true understanding.

Watch the full documentary now

442
6.79
12345678910
Ratings: 6.79/10 from 33 users.

More great documentaries

Comments and User Reviews

  • gregor

    Poor propagandistic movie. The other one is completely against islam , and this one is pathetically pro islam. Both, propagandistic movies.

    Let's not forget that both christianity and islam are two bullshit religions, with a great tendency to conquer.

  • http://rhao ProudMuslim

    Thank's God I'm muslim i'm proud to be a Muslim.

  • Frank

    Islam itself isn't the point. All religions have kooky elements. The issue is that the modern Islamic world is full of political and economic dysfunction and who-knows-how-many angry, idle unemployed young males that have no access to jobs or hope who cloak their rage in religious terms, as if they knew no other language.

  • intelligentact

    Gregor you are so pathetic, read the quran before you judge. There is so many signs in the holy quran that has prooved in scientifical view. Still you people are so ignorant. Take the blue pill if you want to live in a lie, take the red pill, if you want the truth...

    There is many scientific proof in other religions, especially when it comes to the astronomy.

  • meghan

    unfortunately for you "intelligentact" I have read the quran, I've studied the crap out of islam and wanted a completely unbiased set of teachers and materials, I already had enough pre-conceived notions about islam, but once I actually started learning about it, my prior thoughts were mostly proven to be wrong, but that by no means , means that Islam is not what I had though, but it was actually worse. I will give credit where it is deserved and I know a handful of Muslims that do not act anything like the majority, so that can only mean there are a million more "laid back" Muslims out there... personally, if you want to prove islam to be such a beautiful and peaceful religion, then I suggest burning your quran and finding a new prophet because the quran and muhammad actually are worse than the millions of followers who actually defend murder and pedophelia, then whine cos people get the wrong impression. It's not the people, it's the damn quran... the effing quran.... without the quran would you even know what to do????????? Would you be able to wipe your ass without it being haraam? I mean seriously, that's my beef with islam, it controls every aspect of your life... underneath this religious warrior, there is a person...a person who is completely different than the one who would stop breathing if the quran them too...

  • Khalid

    Meghan,
    Before commenting think. You are a tiny human, born of two humans, your whole existence just 3 humans. There are billions like you. Compare yourself to the planet earth, then to solar system, then to galaxy, then to universe. How small you are. Why this universe and humans were created? For fun? certainly not.God not only created this all but sent prophets to gave the correct way (the religion) of life which is just a few years. Every body will face God after death and has to answer as to what he has done in life? Also being so tiny how can your logic to disprove Islam, Quran and the prophet of God be considered reasonable. Islam do not need certification from a person to be true, its a light which can only be appreciated by those with vision and wisdom and not by those without brains.

  • soulman

    Meghan-meghan, pure little soul. Try to travel, to learn and listen people that may help to your disease.

    Khalid respect, I see that you see biger picture, and that is not just "me-me-me-me, I know, me me me", ho are we to judge to someone

    People, take care & respect

  • Hardy

    In essence, both Islam and Christianity are outdated. They have lived over their time and will eventually die out.

    As we all know, God is dead.

  • http://hiddenshelf.com eric

    hardy,we can say they are surviving on very little, somehow for so long like a coma patient which the family refuses to let go and they have put in all their hopes, however in that case god is not a living thing; hey do you mind me asking, what do YOU mean when you say god is dead?

  • http://hiddenshelf.com eric

    hardy,we can say they are surviving on very little, somehow for so long in a vegetated state which the family refuses to let go and they have put in all their hopes, however in that case god is not a living thing; hey do you mind me asking, what do YOU mean when you say god is dead?

  • JJ

    Hardy, I dont agree with you. You dont know who God is. You are confusing God with some form of life, thats why you are using words like dead. God is the creator of universe, an absolute reality whose existence is beyond your appreciating senses. When you make something the presence of your invention is the proof your reality. Similarly God created you as you were unable to be born by yourself automatically.That is an indirect proof of your creator. God has no parents nor offspring and indeed is the one and only. Islam and Christianity are two religions and two major ways of beliefs in God. Until there are humans there will be these two. Whether some one believe or not is a different thing and does not nullify the truth.Death is the end of physical existence of a being. If you cannot see God how can you see his end or death?

  • Tim

    I believe Hardy is referring to Nietzsche's statement. It does not mean the literal death of a being called God.

  • http://hiddenshelf.com eric

    JJ don't blend hardy with my comment, forgive me,JJ,let me clear it up;
    we can say they are surviving on very little, somehow for so long in a vegetated state which the family refuses to let go and they have put in all their hopes, however in that case god is not a living thing;

    I don't mean a living thing at all, or the opposite or that there is a god at all; but why is it that one is holding on to so many, hopes, desires, and has devoted themselves? you see JJ what is meant by, god is indescribable? and what is it that one keeps describing, what is it that is spoken for?What are words? and what is the relationship between the words and description? and what is it that one is trying to keep alive? is it a dead thing to begin with, like the word itself?

  • JJgreen

    Eric, Let me explain it this way.Can somebody count all sand particles on earth? Can the total number of stars in the universe be counted?. If not then who created them? Who created us and our brains which we are using to write these posts? Suppose these physical realities were created by a creator who lets suppose is not God, then who he can be? A,B or X,Y,Z. Any way there must have been a creator whether AB or XYZ . And what if this creator be called God? I think it is very difficult to deny the non-existence of a creator, what the problem is our senses,knowledge,instruments and scopes are unable to define or describe him. That is our inability rather than the non-existence of God. God cannot be appreciated or described by measures or mathematics or science or logic or any available resources but by spiritual senses and belief not by knowledge or logic.

  • Hardy

    Finally, Tim figured it out. I literally faceplanted twice.

    Quick explanation for the people who asked: I am referring to the concept of a "god" being dead, outdated. Its pretty simple, actually: First we believed in the mammoths that gave us everything we needed, then we believed in the spirits for descision-making, then we believed in a god, and now we believe in science. I'm not saying science is the last and ultimately right thing, it's just the new way of explaining the world around us.

    See - the image of something untouchable and holy is comforting for the human mind. We have to believe in an afterlife to make our lives worth living. I have recognized this, which leads me to the following conclusion:

    I don't know if there is a God or not, because I cant prove or disprove it. In essence though, the probability of a christian god and the flying spaghetti monster are exactly equal.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that I believe in the scientific method because it's the most helpful one to me personally. Because of science, I have medicine, computers etc. Why I'm against all forms of religion? Because they cause people to die. Crusades, Witch-Burnings, Israel-Palestine, Iraq-War, modern Terrorism: all originating from ORGANIZED Religion.

  • raynsity

    Not Only Non-muslims but most of Muslims themselves are ignorant about Islam. Islam laws aren't only in Al-Qur'an but also in Al-Hadits. And even if you read both of them, it is still not enough to learn about Islam. Most misunderstandings about Islam are caused by misinterpretations. To get the right interpretations of Islam you have to follow the interpretations of Shahabat, Tabiin, Tabiut Tabiin and the Ulama who follows them.
    Terrorism by some of the Muslims are caused by misinterpretations of what's inside the Islam Law. Sorry to say but even Muslims are ignorant of this.

    For Hardy, if you think that God doesn't exist then why is the world (in a natural term) still remains in orders? Day is still day, night is still night.
    How could a baby get born by doing sexual intercourse and waiting for 9 months, when a human can't even create a single fly?

  • Bahram from Iran

    If Quran and Islam is great, it had 1400 years to make a god world? look for your self the countrys that has Islamic rule, how is it there. why come to Europe???????

  • waaaow

    EUROPE HAS MCDONALDS DUHHHHHHHHHHH

  • Hardy

    @Bahram - Islam is 600-800 years younger than christianity. Simple answer...

    @rayn - Day is only day for us because we declare it as day. It's just a term given to a specific event. The process of sexual reproduction had billions of years to evolve, we humans have had a bit less.

    And lastly - want to bet that scientists will be able to create cells and, eventually, flies from scrap? I'll bet you 5 dollars that it'll happen in the next ~15 years. (Not judging this, simply stating my assumption of the future)

    By the way, many flies are, in biological terms, at least as complicated as a human being.

  • AL

    @all the above people
    Religions are like different paths all leading to
    ONE GOD ALMIGHTY

  • Ardalan from Iran

    I agree with AL

  • Explorer

    I've not seen the doc yet, but just reading the latest comments and I've already found some distortions:
    Hardy, first Islam is here on earth since the begining; for every nation GOD sent a Warner or a Messanger to guide them with the appropriate message including Adam,... Musa(Moses), Issa(Jesus)p.b.upon them, but for many Prophets many of their people refused and/or distorted the message to suit their intrests or superstition, nearly 1500 years ago the final chosen messanger Prophet Muhammed p.b.u.h. was sent for all human kind and This last Message is ment to last;
    If any one dear to change the Holy Qur'an he will be easily uncovored for many reasons including; muslims around the globe memorize the entire Book, plus The noble verses have a unique arabic style that no one has been able to copy it till today, many have tried and failed:
    here is a(human!)translation of a noble verse challenging people like you:
    verse 2:23 "And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides God, if your (doubts) are true."
    So if you think that you can do better than the pagan arabs, in the time of the revelation, when the arab poetry was in it's peak and considered a pillar of their life, and yet they
    failed, so some of these pagans accused The Prophet of using magic. And yet their "magicians" failed to able them to produce not even a verse like it.

  • http://hiddenshelf.com eric

    explorer if that is a fact then what that implies is the early scientific influence on aspects of Islam, which logically many religions probably have somewhat and since Islamic faithfuls at an early time documented everything even other knowledge it must be something a part of that just a as technology becomes a part of ones life;
    Do you know what an explorer means, it goes together with discovery, and so truly an explorer has no post to hang his flag cause he must be in constant search, looking, and so he must part himself with the old constantly for there to be something totally new, free of that; not interpreting or translating with the old to create something and call it new, that is a good way to deceive yourself; there must be the new in ones life otherwise your life becomes dull, repetitive 5 times a day, 7 days a week

  • Explorer

    Eric through your words, I understand that you have not checked the internet adresses which I put, and may be even my comments.
    *First, your explanation is not even considered by atheists and others who oppose Islam; infact,the knwoledge of Greeks and other ancients civilisations, was collected after the Death of Prophet Muhammed p.b.u.h., but If you assume your explanation, how could any ancient civilisation be able to discover the continuous expansion of the universe, the life cycle of the stars and the planets, the "big bang" phases, detailed descreption of the oceanic's depth phenomena, of the embryologic phases even the differanciation, and many other signs...

    you said:"not interpreting or translating with the old to create something and call it new,"
    The Qur'an has no time barriers, and these signs are clear evidence for those who use their brains, and are not close minded, and the purpose is to increase our faith and renew it for new generation by the Mercy of Allah S.W.T.:
    In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
    41:53) Soon shall We show them Our Signs on the horizons and in their own beings until it becomes clear to them that it is the Truth. *70 Is it not enough that your Lord is a witness over everything? *71
    And in contrast to what you have said, in Islam, we are ordained to be actif to improve our life, to search for treatement of any disease, to better understand the creation, the universe,...
    I agree that today, muslims are on a relatively stagnant status regarding sciences and technologies, but this is not the fault of Islam, but rather the fault of muslims;
    The Noble Qur'an:
    "Surely God does not change that in which a people are until they change that which is in themselves." (Qur'an xii,11)
    But on the same time, today, there are numerous great muslim scientists making great inventions for humanity, but they don't get the spot lights, just an exemple: google: NASA El Ayari
    Just ask a doctor of the benefits of our prayers and walking to the mosque just on psychological and health aspects,
    watch science and Islam

    Why explorer:
    Translation Holy Qur'an 49:13:
    In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
    O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).
    An other example:
    The Prophet Muhammad pbuh said, “Any word of wisdom is the stray of the believer, who has the better right to it wherever it may be found.”
    So we have to know each others and exchange knowledge and wisdom.

  • http://hiddenshelf.com eric

    since you and your web addresses are all important then what really could I say? think on that a bit and perhaps you can turn that criticism of yours in towards yourself where is belongs, the problem with knowing others is that you can never know the other, the moment you say I know him that knowledge of each-other is of the past, that me you know is dead, not the me you meet which is living, suffering,and has to deal with this complex world and the moment you submit yourself to that which is old you cease to live, caught in a blasphemous routine like a machine; what does it really mean to learn? to be educated when on the basis of something else you think, so you are not a free human being cause if you are free you don't have a temple, mosque, your mind is the highest temple that no human can organize or put into dead words, cause all of that business has no meaning, you see you are caught in this and Ill tell you why, cause you are not capable, free, strong on your own so you need to cling to something, to speak of something for someone else, and so you can never be free even in you home, or wherever you go and that is the dilemma you are in, I'm not an atheist I am that as you which came before all this nonsense, the difference you are making, and If you want that difference then you will always be insecure, afraid of me, which is you;

  • http://hiddenshelf.com eric

    and don't think that what I say goes only for Islam

  • Yavanna

    Same creationist BS - different flavour.

    Instead of "God did it all" it's "Allah did it all"

    Instead of "Read the Bible!!!! You don't understand" it's "Read the Qu'ran ......"

    Mehgan - great post!

    As for all this Islam and the Qu'ran scientific nonsense I could put a whole batch of web links showing contradictions, discrepancies and outright BS, complete with Qu'ran quotes. Just as this cr^p doc does, you Muslims cherry pick only the bits you like, conveniently choosing to ignore the evil bronze age nonsense your and other religious books spout.

  • Hardy

    Without cherry picking (aka. being a "salad-bar" religious person - I just love this expression), religion wouldn't be able to be practiced in our world today.

  • Yavanna

    You'd think with all that practice they might have got it right by now.

  • Hesus

    But Yavanna... they got it right the first time. Isn`t that even better?

  • Philli

    I found this film very interesting and informative, but of course I never take anything at face value. From reading the comments above there is a clear seperation based on what your religious views are.

    I don't think this film was intended to reinforce your faith, but rather to act as a reference to aid people (mainly "westerners") in navigating political rhetoric that we are subjected to on a daily basis concerning "the evils of islam" and all that spin and what we should do to combat evil and etc until we end up just fueling "the war on terror" believing we're doing something noble or just, when in reality we are led to such levels of ignorance that we believe we are acting based on rational thought processes, except we are basing our actions on one side of a coin.

    So yes, it is propaganda, but sometimes it's nice to view another side of a story in order to gain a more complete understanding on something which regardless of what you think of it, is very real in terms of its presence in this world - seen from the over one billion practising muslims in existence today.

  • Murad

    Brother if U need to defend Islam, not that it needs your defense, you should not be defensive. Muslims are absolutely free of what they had been accused of. The 9/11 was an inside job. There is no way a cave hermit can order the mighty defense system to stand down. Not even a fly can fly over their airspace without them knowing about it. There is no way the cave hermit had access to Nano thermite that was planted in the twin towers and building 7. This is a military grade explosive exclusively at disposal of US military. The planes were military planes and not commercial. The building collapsed on its own footprints in the same manner as one that is brought down by controlled demolition. There was no wreckage at Pennsylvania and no plane hit the pentagon. In the end U show same person who had the advance knowledge of attacks. More than 60% of American now believe the attacks were an inside job. More than 1000 engineers have called for new independent investigation of 9/11. The same story goes for London 7/7, Spain, Mumbai and Bali. All these carnage were perpetrated by their own governments and especial interest group that wants to invade and occupy the Islamic countries to satisfy their man made biblical prophesies and for their need of resources that the poor Muslims are sitting on. There is a change in American citizens attitude towards Muslims. They now believe the Muslims are innocent. So as such you have made a poor case of defending Islam, remember the Surah Al-Fil (The Elephant), that is how Allah took care and ruined the attacking forces.
    In the present days Allah is Humiliating the mighty forces of shayateen and men through the poor and wretched of the world.
    As for the commenters criticism on the video to them, here is a Quote from Allah;

    “This is the Book (the Quran, whereof there is no doubt,
    A guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqun [ The pious believers
    of Islamic Monotheism who fear Allah much (abstain from all kind of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden) and love Allah much (perform all kinds of deeds which He has ordained)]”

    “Who believe in the Ghaib and perform As-Salat (prayers),
    And spend out of what We have provided for them [i.e. give Zakat (obligatory charity), spend on themselves, their parents, their children, their wives, and also give charity to the poor and also in Allah's Cause]”

    “And who believe in that (the Qur’an and the Sunnah) which has been sent down (revealed)to you (Muhammad) and in that which was sent down before you [Torah and the Gospel] and they believe with certainty in the Hereafter (resurrection, recompense of their good and bad deeds, Paradise and Hell)”

    “They are on (true) guidance from their Lord, and they are successful.”

    “Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you (O Muhammad) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.”

    “Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, (i.e. they are closed from accepting Allah’s Guidance), and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be great Torment.” chapter 2: 2-7

    These are the same people who rejects any Muslims contribution towards Humanity advancement. They reject that Muslim Spain had contributed to the Renaissance that helped Europe out of dark ages. Its not their fault. They are victim of circumstances as are the Muslims. Their ruling elite has made sure to keep them dumb. While the same elite were causing mass murders on Muslim countries these dumb sheeple were enjoying as if watching games in Roman Coliseum and cheer leading. For these brothers and sisters I have to this to say; What the Muslims suffered through your dumb attitude and inaction, its your time now. Embrace your struggle (Jihad)for survival. They (ruling elite) has already laid the foundation of fascism, say bye bye to liberty and free speech. Say 'Hello' to 'Slavery' hard work and starvation. And when you do, remember the Muslims that were no different than you, yet Allah willing they will come to your assistance, as they did when Christians were killing the Jews in Spain and when Jews were killing Christians in Yemen.

  • MariMooshrum

    The fact that there can be thousands of interpretations of the same holy books should tell you something. There is so much hypocrisy it blows my mind. Yes the Abrahamic religions say some good things, but they also support a lot of sick sh*t. I mean really disgusting stuff. And the problem is people are indoctrinated to have unwavering faith and never question their religion. This is how really bad stuff happens. Why do we need these old books written by a bunch of prejudiced old men??

    The world is full of wonder and there are lots of things we don't know, but does Islam really fulfill that curiosity about the world? Doesn't science offer us more insight? The quran/bible god is jealous, vengeful, and from all I've read seems like a real jerk. He's like an abusive husband who says he loves you, but if you question him or leave him he'll send you straight to HELL. What happened was the men who wrote these books described god in their own image. The quran and other holy books were written by arrogant people saying they have a connection the rest of us don't. Lets not let religion rob us of our ability to think critically.

  • Murad

    Mr. HinduMooshrum Qur'an challenge is 1400 years old and still stand, to prove it wrong with available scientific established data. As the science progresses (that which is established), Qur'an confirms it in advance. There are yet some future scientifically progression which is in Qur'an. While Jesus's Gospel does not exist, the Paul's Bible is a concoction and opposes Jesus teaching. Just as your own Hindu Scriptures that has been interpolated by your sick guru's.

    Qur'an does not rob human mind to think critically. It your Hindu scripture and Paul's Bible that rob people intellect. Qur'an encourages the human kind to think. The Creator wants human kind to do research work, for then only you will love him ever more. Do not digest the especial interest pervasive propaganda. The insight that Qur'an offers can not be matched by present or future sciences.

    Its the Judaic belief that God Is always angry and Vengeful. The Paul's Bible on the other hand, God is always Merciful not matter what evil deed you do, just say the magic word that Jesus died for your sins, and that is it, you are saved.

    In Islam out of 99 names that God has, only one name refers to Vengeful, the rest has different attributes, more towards caring and merciful to believers.

    Just because you do not believe in God, which I am sure you do have your own belief system, does not mean, you wont stand judged on the day of resurrection.

    No body has seen God, but it does refer to Himself as One Absolutely different from any Imagination or any perceived Image. Therefore your rant of Him being in the Image of Human is absolutely cr^p at best. It is the Bible and your Hindu Scriptures that perceives Him in human image. If you have to criticize Islam then do a educated criticism backed by Qur'anic verses that refutes the Sciences or established data. Otherwise you stand a LIAR or a Muslim HATER without cause or reason.

  • Murad

    To the same Hindu brother.....Please do some soul searching investigation in your own religion. Brahma is not a god, he is the Prophet Abraham. His wife Sara is known as Saraswati in your religion. Munu that survived the flood in your religion is no other than Noah who was the father of the Abrahamic faith. Noah had three sons. One of them was 'Shem'. Abraham had 4 wives. One of them was 'Hajun' who was from the Shem's Family. Hajun had 5 sons through Abraham namely; Kaisan, Suraj, Umaim, Lotan and Nafis....sound familiar????
    Afcourse....Indians (India and Pakistan) people are from these 5 sons. This is the reason, no matter how awkward it sounds, Muslims will never refute or be disrespectful to your Rishi (s) or Avatar (s) as God has sent 124000 messengers, prophets, or Rishis to every nation and tribes. They (Messengers) taught the same message. To worship One God Only. The messengers did not say to not work for your lively hood. When you work for lively hood you get more advanced as you need to expedite time thereby inventing tools in your trade. The Advancement is a natural progression. No religion stops the progression. The people that become rulers wants their junta or masses to be ignorant so as to be used and put to slavery. This backward progression is on the move in western countries, where people are becoming lazy day by day and believe what ever their government throw at them. I.E they have stopped critically examining or questioning their rulers. Qur'an encourages people, to investigate, before taking action, so as to be fair and thus stand free from judgment on the day of resurrection.

  • MariMooshrum

    Hi Murad- You're absolutely correct. All major religions have similar stories with different characters. Since they're all so similar, I don't understand how religious people can be so certain theirs is the right one.

    No religions make sense when looked at objectively.

    I just wish those who are religious would face the violence, cruelty, intolerance, hatred and oppression that is a part of all major religions.

    I just discovered that among other evils, mohammed took a 7 year old wife, Aisha and consumated the marriage when she was 9. Doesn't that make him a child rapist?

    Doesn't that bother you? If it does then why would you respect someone so evil? If it doesn't then its a testament to how horribly religion can mess up your mind and ethics.

    I respect honesty, truth, compassion, kindness, justice, tolerance and egalitarianism. All of which I find lacking in ancient scriptures. We can see with our own eyes how godly men use those scriptures to support their oppressive and deadly regimes.

    Simply stated, religion is completely ridiculous and nonsensical and its disturbing that people do evil things on its behalf.

  • Islam Fake

    All the comments posted by the muslims apologists clearly shows the pathetic ISLAMIC WAY OF THINKING......No wonder why they are so backward and barbaric, the islamic civilization they boost of lasted only 200y......keep it up and u and islam both will go down the history as losers...

  • Islam Fake

    to all muslims just go to

    ISLAM WATCH.ORG

    FAITHFREEDOM.ORG

    All the best!!

  • Somethin

    Pah..Allah. All hail Poseidon, mighty God of the Sea! He shall smash your petty Religion with Rage and Thunder! :D

  • infidel

    Why aren't humans more skeptical? Why do we believe in a god who won't show himself? Why use petty humans as prophets and there message is always self serving? Why don't brain dead humans ask WHY more often? Why, if god is real, not just show himself once and for all? I'll tell you why, because Its all a hoax. If this supreme being can't even prove his existence to his own creation than I can't and won't believe. don't like it, tough sh*t. Our world is based on evidence, in science, in court, in life. No evidence is evidence of NOTHING! And get that chip off your shoulders while your at it.

  • shiet

    Yeah and I should trust a Saudi Arabic production. in Saudi Arabia they cut hands of thieves and decapitate people. is this the moderate view of Islam they propose in this film? Stop it... Islam is a Arabic war religion.

  • bob the builder

    intelligentact,

    swallowing the blue or the red pill? I think because you believe in a religion, you swallowed both without questioning and understanding why and who is asking.

    I am against all religions but Islam is a religion which tends to sway to to the radical quite easily.
    - How come no one can judge prophet Mohammed?
    - How come pictures of him caused riots world wide causing death? eg. more recently SouthPark created a cartoon and NY gets bombed? Its a cartoon for crying out loud.
    - Why do Muslims love the call to Jihad and leave their country and fight in another? i thought you hated Americas foreign policy but you do the same in another? quite hypocritical?

  • I am Stupid

    You cannot win a debate based on emotional sentiment by using logic and religion is not based on logic, it's based on faith. There are rules and regulations contained in every religion that do have some logic to them, but the questioning of the ultimate authorities is considered blasphemous as it is a demonstration of lack of faith. Therefore, to debate these things on the comment section of a website is useless because those that don't buy in the the premises of Islam or Christianity etc are approaching the discussion from a logical standpoint while the believers are approaching the discussion from a faith based or emotional standpoint. But you didn't need me to tell you that this discussion was going nowhere :)

  • Tyler

    FACT: the primary source of converts to Islam are felons in prison. The rest of its membership is only due to the fact that 3rd world Muslims breed like rabbits.

    FACT: at least 25% of Muslims worldwide support the contemporary terrorist notion of jihad.

    FACT: Mohammad founded Islam due to spite and hatred as a means to overthrow nations. He spread his cult through war and murder, which has been the primary means of conversion since its beginning.

  • sajjad

    No one is tolerant here ! All these bad seeds (whether Muslims and Christians or else ) are coming from Adm and Eve(may be from Darwin's monkey ??).Don't throw you're beliefs on each other. We all human are dirty just accept that, there is no problem with God, Quran , Bible , Islam or Christianity. The problem lie in our dark hearts...... I am afraid you will not get it so I shut up my mouth myself.

  • Dr Clark

    Ni-eve you all are. define faith and it's origin for me. both text are written by human beings whom are known to error. Hundreds upon hundreds of other (religious) text where chosen not to be included in both text from a vast geographical area and scribes. there is only 2 questions to be asked was there a Messiah and is there a God. I say yes. However be careful how you interpret text they can be twisted to suite your needs. Those to choose in the big bang it has to be sad not to have any faith or hope. Have fun folks.

  • Debunker

    FACT

    Tyler your comments are utter nonesense.

  • Debunker

    What was the average life expectancy in 700 AD?

    40-45 years.

    Today it is 65-70 years. Today the legal age of consent/marriage in many western countries is 16. That is a quarter of an average persons life.

    In 700 AD being 9/10 years old would equate to a quarter of a persons life. (the same as being 16 today).

    So if Mohammed married a girl of 9 1400 years ago, by todays standards that would not make him child rapist but a very lucky man. So why all the nonsense? Are ya'll jealous?

    Is a 9 year old in the USA playing with her Barbie doll on the same level as the 9 year old in Africa looking after her orphaned siblings day to day?

    You can't compare the modern world with the ancient world, it just dont work.

  • Waz

    Meghan, I wonder where such anger and hate come from? Islam is not what you claim it to be, remember this is the religion that brought Europe out of the dark ages and into the enlightenment. It gave the world so much, and yet because of the twisted views if extremists who have hijacked the faith of over 1.5 billion people you have fallen for their propaganda and call it evil! You could not have 'studied' Islam at all, as you have not really opened your mind or heart to the truth. I hope you will one day look at Islam again, when you are at a point in your lie where you feel the need for purpose and direction.

  • Jo

    For all the people here who still insisit that Quran has scientefic precedings and proven facts in it, I think that has become the most pathetic claim of the century..Im an x-muslim, and how did that happen? actually that happened after extensive research and study in the quran and hadith..I suggest u ppl do the same (with an open mind) before u preach this bloody religion to the world,the quran is full of unreasonable nonsense that contradicts every single sientific fact we've ever learned, plus loads of linguistic errors that has been admitted by arabic language scholars years and years ago,its a sad thing how this religion can control and brainwash the brains of even the most educated and smart people in the arab world turning them into a weired mix of civilised barbarians..

  • UrDady

    Look all of you dumsits ..

    Anyone will retaliate if you conquer their lands
    (Afghanistan, Iraq, Palestine, Kashmir)

    All the civilized world got to do is stop conquerring and murdering innocents for the sack of oil !!

    Didn't the movie Avatar teach you guys anything?

  • Humanbeing

    Wars never had anything to do with religion; Wars only start when people take over other people's land!!!!!!!!!!

    That is common sense, freedom fights aka terrorists will find a way to gather momentum (using religion) to fight off the invaders and to cause de-stability.

    That has been proven through-out history.

  • Satisfied Seeker

    Hi,

    I believe in foxnewschannel , they are my religion :)

    I am quite happy with them. They give me exactly what my conscious is looking for.

    And Avatar was sponsored by Muslims!!!!

    Cheers

  • Mad Madsen

    There is no True Islam, because there is no Islam. It's just a word. There is a book that is claimed to divine, and millions and millions of interpretations of it. There is a theology, and millions of interpretations. There is a historical person, whom many idolize to be the perfect human. The hadiths, ect. Anything that has to do with this is called Islam. It's completely subjective; pant a word from the Koran on a tea pot, and that will be an Islamic tea pot.

    "True Islam" is a oxymoron.

    "True Islam" is just the cry of the self-righteous muslim who thinks that his or hers personal interpretation is the "one true" interpretation. Everybody else got it wrong. How arrogant!

    Personally I don't respect any person who choice to believe that he or she is part of a Nazi-like group of superior / God's favorite people. And everyone else is wrong and doomed. That to me is a scumbag position on life and one that should never be respected. Never.

    Kill your idols. Burn your teleology. Free your mind.

  • Waz

    Jo.You are not a scientist, but many real scientists accept Islam. You are not a scholar, yet scholars do know Islam and remain Muslim. You only have to read the books by Maurice Bucaille (19 July 1920 in Pont-L'Eveque, France- 17 February 1998[1]), son of Maurice and Marie (James) Bucaille,[2] was a French medical doctor, member of the French Society of Egyptology and an author. Bucaille practiced medicine from 1945-82 and was a specialist in gastroenterology.
    The Bible, The Qur'an and Science

    In 1976, he published his book, The Bible, The Qur'an and Science which argued that the Qur'an contains no statements contradicting established scientific fact[4]. In 1991, another book by Bucaille, Mummies of the Pharaos: Modern Medical Investigations, was published in English.

    Keep and open mind, God gave it to you for a purpose.

  • young

    @Waz

    God has been refuted for over 150 years now. Praise be to Zues.

  • Waz

    Jo. I can't open the links you provide me so please just send me the hadith number, book or a link in English from another site.
    Hadeeths are explained by scholars with real knowledge in the science of hadith, laymen can't or shouldn't explain them as they do not know the origin, source, narrators, authenticity, context etc in order to explain. I will ask an Arab speaking scholar on your behalf for the sake of Allah Most Wise.

    O.k, so yu feel it is bad that Muslims who leave Islam are killed, and this is not the case in Christianity.

    Read about Christianity; it is from the same roots as Islam, the Abrahamic faith. It also orders the death penalty for apostates, read below.

    Deuteronomy

    Chapter 13

    KJV

    1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. 5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.

    6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.

    12 If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, 13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 14 Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. 17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and show thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers; 18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.

    And don't forget that most countries kill people for treason! This was the case in the U.K even during world war 2.

    O.K as for verse (9:29 from surat at Taubah (The Repentance)

    Verse 9:29 requires non-Muslim population of the Muslim-run state to either accept Islam or pay Jizyah or fight till death. The fourth option, given without saying, is to migrate to another land. Jizyah was a tax much lower than the Zakat paid by the Muslims and its payment gave non-Muslims equal citizenship rights with the Muslims besides exempting them from military service. This is the reason Jizyah has been translated as protection tax (giving full citizenship rights except becoming head of the state) and exemption tax (giving exemption from military service which was not given to the Muslims). Payment of Jizyah is a symbol of accepting to live under Islamic law; this is what it means to be subdued. This is the same as the taxes all citizens have to pay.

    You have to see Islam as a whole system which has been progressing since man first came on this earth. I can easily take verses out of context from all the religions, but that is not just. We should speak with knowledge and truth, as God will judge us for what we say in this life.

    I hope this helps.

  • Jo

    Waz,thanks for your replies. I feel that there is a misunderstanding here, you are trying to teach me stuff I already know very well about Islam, I'm an arabic native speaker my man who was raised in a muslim house and an islamic school, I know what Jizyah is,and all of what you said is the moderate islamic way of explaining the whole concept of it and what it represents, this completely contradicts the historical facts and disregards the deep psycological effect on those people who paid that kind of tax, and the hatred it cultivated in their hearts towards muslims (Especially in Egypt), as for your references from the old testament, you have to understand the Christian belief first man and not explain the verses of the bible based on islamic perspective, or as you explain the Quran, we as Christians believe in the new testament as well as the old testament,as Without the Old Testament, we would not understand the core of the Messiah coming to this world,after Jesus came, the whole relationship between man and god changed, the relationship between people changed,the old testament is more like the foundational truth of the new one, mostly concerning the creation and the creator, yet we do not follow the hebrew laws in it which were mostly denied afterwards by Jesus himself in the new testament, based on his direct acts and sayings, Jesus gave us the chance of start fresh and took away all of our sins when he died on that cross, the new testament came with love and joy and forgiveness my friend, have you ever heared of a christian killed for changing his religion? have you ever heared of a christian woman or a man stoned to death becuase he commited perjury? (read about what jesus did when a woman came to him and confessed perjury, and compare it with what Muhammad did when he was put in the same exact situation), yet all of this still happens in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran and Saudi Arabia, is this the kind of world you want us to live in?

    what is the ultimate goal of Islam? surely to conquer the world again and unite it under god's word (Arabic Islam), I just can't Imagine a world like that,do you honestly think that one day we will conquer Germany for example, convert it's people, eliminate their culture and language and replace it with our Arabic one? make their women dress like arab women did 1400 yrs ago and their men dressed like the prophet of Islam did 1400 ago? is the Islam really preaching a religion of god or seeking a full arabic culturtal, political and military domination over the world?

    there's unlimited questions on this issue my friend, and this debate will get us nowhere, we both think differently and obviously have different views of life and of humanity.

    This is Saheeh Muslim, Kitab Al Ridaa (Breastfeeding for adults), Al Azhar scientits issued a fatwa and validated it officially last year in Egypt based on this hadeeth. this is just one point out of a million man, please start reading more in the (Islamic) books, and I guarantee you, you'll find so many interesting stuff that wasn't taught to you in school.

    God blessings..

  • Jo

    Waz. Hadeeth Number 1453 (Saheeh Muslim)

  • Jo

    Well..all expected my friend, ur answers are cliches, just like any programmed muslim..please spare me philosophy and word games, thats y I tried to end this discussion n tell u we both r coming from totally different backgrounds n this argument will get us no where..I have nothing to proof man, Christians never had to n never will,I just want the best for u.

    If ur happy trying to proof that Muhammad is a prophet and the Quran is Naca's scientific reference, I wish u all the best, keep trying.

    Peace.

  • Epicurus

    lol i love watching two people argue over the colour of the invisible unicorn.

    both of you are saying the others religion is bad because it does this and this and that, then the other justifies it by saying "ya but yours does this and that and this" without realizing that they are both not defending the terrible deeds but trying to distract from them or making a tu quoque fallacy.

    why dont you both realize you believe in ancient superstitious myth and you have both been culturally influenced greatly?

    could you both admit that you BOTH might be wrong and the hindu religion might be right....or maybe even atheism?!?

  • Waz

    The religion of Islam started with the Prophet Mohammad. One man and one call to one God. 1400 years later it has 1.5 Billion believers, so Islam is doing just fine without me to defend it or prove its true message.

    Peace, or as Jesus Christ and Prophet Mohammad would say
    ''peace be with you.''

  • Waz

    Funny you never had any answers to any of my 10 questions, but.Very frustrating no Christian will answer them for me! I will keep asking as someone must know.

  • Waz

    There are no easy answers Jo, that is why I have gone to people in the church to ask, and even they don't know and can't even explain the trinity! They say it's just a question of faith. The official posotion of the Catholics is 'just have faith, even if it doesn't make sense.'

    I do know the difference between Christianity and the crusades. Christianity was not founded by Christ, but by Paul and Constanine the Emporer of Rome. The crusaded were wars declared by Christians upon the Muslims.

    Jesus was a Jew, not a Christian. Jesus never set up a Church, or asked anyone to set one up during or after his mission.

    Jesus never died on the cross, he is still alive, and even if he did, what kind of sacrifice would it be if you still gwt to live?

    Christians say god died on the cross. If this is true, who was running the world and all of creation once he had died? Then they say, oh only the man part of god died. I say, but that is not a sacrifice for your sins, as god has to die in order for it to work!

    Also Jesus said that he would give a sign, that he will be in the earth for 3 nights and 4 days, just as Jonah was in the belly of the whale for 3 nights and 3 days.This he did not do, as he was only 2 nights and 2 days in the earth, or cave rather. So I guess it all comes back to faith.

    Do you know there is one sin in Christianity which can never be forgiven? So that would mean Jesus has not come to wipe out every Christians sins.

    I won't ask you any more tough questions, but thank you for your time.

    Peace.

  • Epicurus

    PRO TIP, you are both wrong and both arguing fairy tales against one another so it will continue to go nowhere. have fun.

  • ruby

    To all the non-Muslims, i only have this to say to you
    109: 1-6
    Say: O you that reject faith,
    I worship not that which you worship,
    Nor will you worship that which I worship,
    And I shall not worship that which you are worshiping,
    Nor will you worship that which I worship,
    To you your religion, and to me mine.

  • Epicurus

    @ruby, that might sound lovely but really it is just saying "im going to close my eyes and ears and go lalalalalala because i would rather believe whatever i want than understand what is true"

  • Jatin

    i think quran is just a book...i do not understand y ppl take it very seriously...i think serious thing in life is "life" itself...learn from the daily life incidents not from the book which is written 1000's year ago....life is changing every moment...its not same as it was 1000's year ago...

    please be human and live in peace...and try to spread happiness around you...

    thanks

  • Jesus is love, peace!

    True Islam, what a joke. True Islam is simply EVIL!!!

    I can say Christianity, Bhudism, Hinduism, Sikhism, among others are all peaceful religions preaching love, peace, and harmony.

    Islam is the only sick cult (so called religion)that has managed to force or brainwash millions around the world.

    They believe the angel Gabriel came down and gave the "word" to the sicko they follow and call Mohammed. It was the devil himself pretending to be the angel Gabriel.

    The ROOT of the religion itself, the base, the foundation, Mohammed himself all of it, is dirty, sick, and corrupt. God would never send a messenger who could kill, rape, give orders to kill, lie, cheat, the list goes on. ONLY THE DEVIL HIMSELF COULD GIVE ORDERS LIKE THAT.

    I can understand how anyone in the world can follow any other religion in the world, just not the sick cult Islam.

    I want to ask every Muslim this:

    Who would you rather follow, a man who healed the sick, helped the poor, NEVER KILLED OR EVEN LAID ONE NEGATIVE FINGER OR EVEN THOUGHT FOR THAT MATTER ON ANYONE, fed the poor, and EVEN GAVE HIS LIFE FOR US!!!!!!!!!!

    OR

    A man that killed thousands of people with his own hands, raped hundreds of women and children, gave orders to kill tens of thousands, cheated, lied, deceived, and soo many undescribable other sickening acts

    The answer is so simple. It is up to you to truly fill your heart with TRUE LOVE, or TRUE HATE. If you pick the latter, well, God Bless your soul, and I forgive you!!!

    If someone hits you, turn your cheek and let him hit the other side, if someone throws a stone at you, throw him or her back a loaf of bread.

    Jesus is love, Jesus is peace. Jesus, Budha, Krishna, Guru Nanak, God Bless them all.

  • Hesus

    @ Jesus is whatever

    All of the things ypu ascribe to Mohammed Moses did just as well if not better. Pull your head out of your @ss.

  • Dre 3000

    I dont know if i want to feel sorry for you or to hate you! All you people (Kuffars) here will taste death within few decades, not long left! So get ready for ETERNAL HELL FIRE because thats where you all belong with your master satan!

  • Hesus

    @ Dre

    Live as though heaven is on earth.

  • Islam is religion of PEACE

    I love being a Muslim and I'm proud of it! Peace to all of You!

  • isana1

    @islam is religion of peace
    i cant understand why will muslems go to heaven after murder a lot of non-muslems? islam is a religion of war and intolerance.

  • Waz

    isana: Have you read the Qur'an? It does not teach or preach war an intolerance. This is the religion that brought light and peace to the world, and brought Europe out of the dark ages. If you don't understand something you should leanr about it and talk to practising Muslims and not watch CNN or U.S Zionist/politically motivated media.

    Islam is for all of mankind, even if they do not wish to follow Islam they still have to submit to Allah willingly or unwillingly as he created us all and we submit to His will.

    Peace.

  • Mad Madsen

    Waz,

    The Koran preaches as much war as it does peace. Before Muhammed became the tyrant, he preached peace, after, he preached war and intollerance.

    I am not a zionist, jew or a even a christian, so stop trying to pretend only those with political motivations are against Islam.

    You BELIVE islam is only good and peacefull - this is why it's a religion, because it requires BELIF to think that. Like a christian BELIVES christianty only has brough good things. Like a Jew BELIVES judiasm has only good things. Ect.

    Reality does not agere with your belifs. Reality is not a or a Zionist/politically motivated attack on Islam.

  • Waz

    Wow! Ignorance really is bliss.

    I live in the real world and plan to live in the next world too.

    Peace and goodbye.

  • Mad Madsen

    Waz, delusion must then be heaven.
    You only have one life, make the most of it.
    Free your mind.

  • Waz

    Mad Madson:
    Please enlighten me and explain how one can 'make the most of life' and 'free the mind?'

    I will then explan to you whether I have already achieved such states through Islam or found something better.

  • Mad Madsen

    Waz

    Alight, if in return you will explain to me why - and how - you have come to the conclusion that Islam is only peace, when history clearly tells otherwise. And don’t tell me that, whatever violent and tyrannical/evil thing that has happened is caused by “human error/nature”, because that can be said about literally every belief/ideology.

    Make the most of life - is to realize that life is a journey and approaching it as such, and all humans, animals and even things are fellow travelers. Not a test to see if your worthy of some promise of reward/prize or punishment at the end. Consequenses are a natural fact of existence, not defined worthy or unworthy in the eyes of what has made us.

    Open your mind - is to realize that there are no absolute, nothing is perfect. The opposite of this is taking an idea or ideology or belief - and thinking that this, whatever it might be, is the only idea/ideal/belief you'll ever need. That is a closed mind; one that has made overall decisions of things, problems and situations yet to come.

  • Mad Madsen

    Well, you say that Islam is a peaceful religion, that it does not teach or preach war. My question was, how can you come to this conclusion? And please don’t assume that I’m just ignorant and need to be educated by watching one-sided lectures, I know plenty of Islam – the good and the bad (any one who ignores one of those, god and bad, is truly ignorant).

    Yes, all systems have to punish those that harm others, but those rules are set up for reasons that isn't based upon someones personal belief, but rules that have to be tested, and measured, updated, changed, ect. You might believe in one thing, someone else does not. Then what? Are we then to fight and the winner gets his way, or base our rules upon justice. Then there will never be peace, as there will always be someone who disagrees with you.

    Yes, I know you believe Islam to be perfect, but it is clearly not; and stating this does not make one a Zionist or islamofob or whatever. That was my point in my first post.

    I know Islam is more than war, I never said otherwise: there is the spirutual part of Islam (personal peace), and the political part of Islam (not peacefull) I was pointing out that war is a part of Islam, as, like I said above – someone will always disagree with you. Simply calling that person ignorant or making him/her submit does not solve that problem. (Well, there you have it, just that one thing shows that Islam is not perfect, or Islam would have a solution to that problem.)

  • isana1

    @waz
    i know some muslems, we discussed many times about islam.today i would never do that,because its waste of time.most if them can really good preach,but in reality there are different, most of them are intolerant, backwarn in time.they dream about 70 virgins(zombies im heaven for sex),belief in hell (muslem murder will enter in better hell as a good non-muslem) or belief to enter a heaven after murder non-muslem (beacauce there destiny is anyway the hell).and there are all students. i do not want to tell what common worker think.islam is stucked in 8 century.this and another things are enough for me not to read koran and not to take to islam.

  • waz

    Mad Madsen/ isana:

    You don't have to watch one sided documentaries and I would never ask or recommend this to anyone. I have given you a link to a debate where non-Muslims can ask their questions directly to a Muslim who is ahppy to answer them.

    If you prefer to just believe Muslims who have no knowledge that is your choice, I have no obligation to make people believe in Islam, as it has to be their own informed choice.

    War and armed forced are a part of all countries, nations and beliefs, and this is to protect people. Islam is not pro-war, but rather in peace unless their is no other option.

    Lokk at the USA,it has a history of aggression, not peace.

    World War 1,World War 2, The Cold War, The War in Afghanistan of Russia, the wars in Central America, the wars in the Middle East, Israel and Vietnam etc etc were all started by non-Muslims, mainly Christian and communists.

    Your zombies and murder issues clearly show you have been given very secular conditioning and educating, so I can't blame you if you have these misconceptions of Islam. It is you choice to learn about Islam or leave it.

    I ma content and do not have to prove Islam is right,1.5 billion Muslims and 1400 years of Islam are good enough for me and I hope that Islam will continue to spread as it has been prophesied.

    Peace.

  • Mad Madsen

    Waz,

    Well, by that rational, your making a pretty bad choice. 2,1 billion Christians, 2000 years and the most successful countries in the history of mankind with more development, technological, philosophical and achievements must by that rational be better then Islam. (Not to endorse Christianity, I'm an atheist if anything, and most of this has come out of secularism, but only to reply to your thin justification.) (And btw, since in many places it is not permitted to leave Islam and speak other views, a good portion of those 1,5 billion muslims are only muslims because they have no other choice. Many who come to the west where there is choice leave Islam.)

    But you did not address my questions/points, only repeated the misconception that anyone who disagrees with you is ignorant or brainwashed!

    This is the closed-mindedness I was refereeing to earlier. At some point, you are going to have to realize that there are many people who knows much about Islam, but trough intelligent and rational thinking come to the conclusion that Islam is not the “true religion” (nor the peaceful religion as it is being propagandized to be.)

    USA also have a history of both war and peace. Yes. This is the human condition, so why is it then being so aggressively resisted simply to point out that war IS a part of Islam, and it is then wrong to keep repeating this lie that Islam is ONLY peace – the goal of Islam is to dominate (not convert) the world, and you KNOW that most non-muslims will never accept this, then the goal of Islam can only be archives trough war and suppression of other ideas and opinions. It is there for a lie to keep saying that Islam is about peace, it’s not.

    But you can choose just keep blindly believing that your view is the right one, and never actually debate anything or question your own thoughts. It is, after all, part of Islam to believe that all non-muslims are just ignorant and wrong. No surprise there.

  • Mad Madsen

    Waz

    Once again... you assume that I'm just ignorant and needs to be informed and educated.

    I have seen that debate, and many others. None of the debaters are very persuasive, IMO. Two weeks ago, a muslim friend of mine, sent me a 46-paged document wherein he fully lays out his reasons for believing in God and Islam. A week a go, I sent him the document back, now it’s 68 pages with my comments of where and how he makes false assumptions and completely ignore all the arguments against, except for a selected few.

    Debate is a great way to learn. - But just in the first 3 minutes that debate (the one you linked to), Rajabali completely mis-represent atheism. Barker is good, but he rarely actualy debates, more he just repeats his views over and over in all his debates.

    But as I said, “I’m an atheist if anything” because I don’t define my self based upon my beliefs about the nature of the universe. To me that is one of the great dangers of region as a whole, that it divides humankind into groups, instead of bringing people together. No religion has ever accomplished this, only in a secular state where all views are tolerated have humankind ever come close.

    Regarding Islam: I can see the excistance of a God as a possibility, all though I find it very unlikely, but I have never been giving any (good) reason to believe in Islam. My friend gave the reason that the Koran is perfect, but he is very delusional about that, as the Koran does contain both contradictions, errors and all the claims of profetsy and knowledge unknown at the time is very subjective.

    So what other reasons can you give?

    As Christopher Hitches, another great debater, says: Even if you can prove the excistans of God, all the religions still have all their work ahead of them, as prof of God is not prof that any rreligionis right.

  • waz

    Mad Madson:

    First of all as I have mentioned that it is not the burden of Muslims to prove the exhistence of God, so I will not berden myself with something that my creator has not expected of me. The burden is upon each of us to read the Qur'an, ponder over its verses and them decide whether we believe or not. I never ask people to prove that there is no God, I ask them to think about their creation and purpose in life.

    If you believe you are not ignorant then you are the first from mankind to have achieved this state.

    Let me share a quote with you from the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

    'A man will learn all his life until he claims he knows everything, at this point he has become ignorant.'

    So you must be the first person in history to be so enlightened.

    Seeing as you know so much about Islam and have made the claim that the Qur'an contains contradictions and errors; please could you send me the text, which I assume will be in English unless you have it in Arabic.

    I would prefer both languages as any translation is only the meaning of the Qur'an and not the actual Qur'an. Translations as you will be aware of are easily corrupted, meanings lost and a poor substitute for real knowledge.

    I await you reply with the proofs of your claim.

  • Joe_nyc

    Waz

    In Islam, inability to give evidence of non-existence of invisible god is the proof of existence of invisible god?

    Can you not see this absurdity?

    I thought Muslims were cool/kick-ass/enlightened dudes.

  • Mad Madsen

    Waz,

    Well, then you, and I, and Muhammad, and everyone else are equal ignorant, and the word losses all meaning. Of course I don’t claim to know everything, but that’s beside the point; I have not claimed to know everything, just that you have assumed several times that I need to be educated or cleansed of bad information, as a reason why I'm not a muslm. My point being that my choices are based upon prof and information, not “Zionist/political propaganda,” as implied. (BTW if you are a Buddhist, then Buddha was the first person I history to reach “god-like” enlightenment.” But that’s the beside the point, not something I believe.)

    To ask people them to think about their creation and purpose in life, is to ask people to first assume there is a creator and a purpose giver. This is a rhetorical trick, used by many believers. God is a proposed reality, so of course the burden of prof lies on those that claim it. It’s fine if you don’t want to prove God, but then, when asking people to think about “their creation and purpose,” you are asking them to think about something you propose as happened and is.

    The burden of prof is always with those that propose something, so Islam, weather it wants to or not, has to prof it’s claim. Just like if I propose something about the state of the universe of life or anything, I have to prove it.

    The text I refereed to is in Danish, using many different English translations. If you want it, I’ll first have to ask my friend, as it is his text. But if you want examples of the Korans imperfections, just answer the following simple questions:

    - Of what material does the Koran say Allah created Adam/man? (The Korean gives several direct contradictory answers, ranging from clay, to water, to nothing, to a clot of congealed blood.)

    - Is it true, as the Koran says, that Allah created everything as pair (eg. male/female)? (This is not true.)

    Just two examples. If there is no contradictions or errors, then these questions should be very easy to answer and dismiss. I could give you more, but just one contradiction or error is enough to disprove the claim that the Koran it self is prof of divinity.

    Regarding this conception, that the Koran can only be understood in it’s original Arab form, then of course there is some truth to that. Like Shakespeare can only truly be heard in English. Translation always change meaning in some way, as there might not be a direct word in the new language and a different one has to be chosen to explain the meaning, ect. However this would mean that only Arabic-speaking persons can be Muslim, and all the converts or Muslim that have come to Islam without learning Arabic are fools, as they are relaying on hearsay evidence?

    But when many different translations, of many different times and persons, translate the same claims of the Koran, then it is fair to assume that a non-Arabic-speaking person can know what the Koran says.

    And example of this:

    Koran chapter 51:49 (first part only, for shortness of this post):
    (transliteration): "Wamin kulli shayin khalaqna."
    (Muhammad Asad) "And in everything have We created opposites"
    (M. M. Pickthall) "And all things We have created by pairs"
    (Shakir) "And of everything We have created pairs"
    (Yusuf Ali) "And of every thing We have created pairs"
    (Al-Muntakhab) "And of everything, spiritual, animate and inanimate, did We create pairs complementing each other: (night and day, positive and negative, love and aversion, rest and fatigue, mercy and punishment, sea and land, light and darkness, belief and disbelief, life and death, happiness and misery, heaven and Hell, male and female, …)"
    (Abdel Haleem) "and We created pairs of all things"
    (Abdul Majid Daryabadi) "And of every thing We have created pairs"
    (Ahmed Ali And) "from every thing We created a pair/couple"
    (Aisha Bewley) "And We created all things in pairs"
    (Ali Ünal) "And all things We have created in pairs"
    (Ali Quli Qara'i) "In all things We have created pairs"
    (Amatul Rahman Omar) "And We have created all things in pairs"
    (Hamid S. Aziz) "And of all things have We created pairs"
    Ect.

    There are many more translations and they all say the same thing. So it is fair to assume that this is what the Koran says, is it not? The three main words here are "kulli" (all, every, each one, for everything), "shayin" (has willed, wills, thing[s], anything, something), and "zawjayni" (kind, pairs, wife/husband, spouses, categories).

    Please tell me if you doubt the correct translation of this? And if not, then is it true, that Allah created everything as pair (eg. male/female)?

  • Mad Madsen

    Waz,

    I've received an email from this site, that you have replied, but i cannot see your post here? Not sure how to proceed with this debate... or if this post will be post on this site.

    But thank you for your reply, and the complemnt within it. The text you cite is rather complex, and chemestiy is not my strongest subject, but I will read it thoroughly and see if I can make sence of it all.

  • Student

    it dosen't matter how much we argue about Islam... it has been practiced for long 1400 years and it will be......it is a knowledge with many conspiracy theories.....if some one claims that he has got a total idea about what Islam is, then he is none but a fool...only by reading translations of Quran and watching documentaries will not help to know what the true Islam is....., In Islam gaining knowledge goes by four steps.....no matter how much we claim, we are just "lay people" who actually have just some discreet knowledge about Islam...and its the lowest state among those fours... i tell those guys who think they know much enough about It, that is, "Do U Really Think U Have Such Systematic Education About Islamic Knowledge..." i don't think so..... Don't try to "understand" Islam with this so called "enough" knowledge..try to feel it...if u can't, then stop making bad comments about this religion.

  • Seeker for truth

    Hello all the brothers above ..

    I've read all your comments and I'm happy to find such people who discuss and think willing to find the truth .. although I've been hurt by the words of some of you ..
    Anyway .. I'm your Muslim brother .. and I want to enter this discussion to clarify some points .
    First .. Thanks to the editor and the founder of this site for putting this video and giving the opportunity to all the people to get an idea about Islam .

    I will talk now about my believing .. and I hope each one to discuss me if he has any doubts.

    I'll talk with the both teams .. believers and non-believers .. Ok .. I want first to talk to the non-believers here .. who have suspicion about the existence of a one Mighty God ..

    Why is there a God ?

    Look at the world .. imagine the Earth, The Sun, Galaxies and stars and how they turn in a great solid impressive system .. look at the atoms, electrons and how matter is made up .. all this organization , all this greatness can it happen just by coincidence ? let's prove it can't ..
    Bring a box full of letters .. just like the one young children play with .. let's say it has 100 letters or make them a million or a trillion in your imagination .. Take these letters and throw them on the floor .. How many words will form out of them ? one ? four ? Maybe ten from the billion letters ! Try it and tell me .. can coincidence make a system and a such great solid perfectly organized system ? No , It surely Can't .
    So .. there is a God .. But is one or multiple ? Imagine there are two gods like the old Greek mythology .. and they want to create a world .. they can't be completely harmonious with each other because then we'll not need them both .. Then they will argue at some point .. and the strongest will do what he wants and the other will be helpless and then he's not a God . So there's a God , a One Unique God .

    Now for the believers .. Christians .. Jews .. X-Muslims .. etc ..

    Islam is a complete religion .. I'm not talking because I'm a Muslim and just defending like a jerk .. but I'm totally convinced with Islam by thinking and analyzing .. So don't judge me till I'm finished .
    Islam is a very tolerant religion .. very peaceful .. but also has a dignity that It protects ..
    Islam admits with other religions that were given to the humanity by God .. Allah .. and It calls Christians and Jews as the owners of the book ( or the people of the book ) .. It means that these religions are real and right .. the problem comes that Muslims believe that these religions have been led to the wrong way ( of course not totally ) .. and the holy books have been distorted .
    I have many Christian friends .. and all Christians live in my community just as Muslims .. no more .. no less .
    Say's prophet Mohammad (pbuh) : " The one of you won't be a believer , until he wants for his brother what he wants for himself . "
    And look to what have been said : " Won't be a believer " Not " Won't be a Muslim ".

    You might say .. Why does Islam control all aspects of life ? from eating and drinking to marriage to sex to economical and political issues .. That’s because it came to be perfect .. and to not leave any cavity in life that the human may use to do bad deeds .

    But before continuing .. I'll tell the base of Islam .. It's Believing .. Believing in God, God's angels, God's holy books, God's prophets , The day of judgment , and Fate & Fortune (or Act of God ) . and these pillars of believing are terms to enter Islam, without them you can't enter Islam .

    You can't say Islam is outdated .. Islam is developing every second .. eg .. Smoking and drugs are forbidden although they weren't known 1400 years ago .. Islam has Its own ways to develop correctly ..

    Islam and science : Islam calls for Science .. say's prophet Mohammad (pbuh) : " acquiring science is an obligation on every Muslim . " { excuse my English which might be wrong a little } . So the Arabic community developed within 100-200 years and became the first in the world then .. while it took Europe about 400 years to achieve the evolution ( the development ) starting from the renaissance .
    Do you know that the Arab Muslim inventor ( Ibn Al Haytham ) created the bases of the Camera you use daily ?

    Question : does Islam really fulfill that curiosity about the world? Doesn’t science offer us more insight?
    Answer : you get your insight from Qur'an and science .. each one is for some fields .. Qur'an orders human to gain science and make a good use of it for the good of the humankind.. although Qur'an contains new scientific information .. but it's hard to take them out of it .. you do your scientific experiments and when you find the same result in Qur'an you believe in it more and more .

    Islam and Jihad :
    The Islamic word that terrifies every one .. JIHAD .. Do you Know what Jihad is ?
    In Arabic .. Jihad is to struggle .. But to struggle what ?
    First .. Islam called to struggle yourself to do the right thing .. to believe in one Mighty God .. to love people .. to work and get your daily food by sweat and muscles .. to be honest .. generous .. pure .. to not cheat .. steal .. rape .. kill with no right ..
    To struggle studying day and night and to travel after the word of wisdom ..
    Second .. To struggle yourself to help the poor and give charities .
    Third .. To struggle for the God .. which means to pay money to protect your land .. to pay your soul defending your land, family, money, your beloved ones and other's ones ..
    So .. Jihad isn't to be suicidal and blow yourself in the innocent citizens ..
    We only have the right to fight who fight's us .. and who prevents us from delivering our message .. Islam ..

    And what Muslims are doing today .. isn't totally right .. but Arabs and Muslims have been under occupation for more than 400 years and still .. and our brothers are killed every day in Palestine , Iraq , Afghanistan .. etc .. So .. Is expelling American army out of Iraq our right or not ?

    Your Question and My Answers ..

    Question : Why do we believe in a god who won’t show himself ?
    Answer : Islam tells that God created us in a way that we can't see and understand the glory of his presence .. Like if I told you imagine there is a sixth dimension and you're walking in it .. how would it be ? you can't imagine ..
    And .. Scientist believed in electricity without seeing it .. but because they feel it .. so do we .. God is present in every thing ..
    Another point .. if God showed himself and the people got convinced .. that won't be enough 20 generation after ..
    An information .. Allah has promised to let the humanity see him after the day of judgment ..

    Question : How come no one can judge prophet Mohammed?
    Answer : you can judge him (pbuh ) , but can you find any wrong with him ? He is a prophet and prophets are protected from wrong behaviors and opinions .

    Question : How come pictures of him caused riots worldwide causing death?
    Answer : Because that's an insult to Islam prefect human .. Islam leader .. Muslims would never do the same and draw Jesus like a terrorist .. the opposite .. we will riot if there were bad drawings about Jesus , Moses , Abraham and all prophets ( Peace be upon them all )..

    Question : Why do Muslims love the call to Jihad and leave their country and fight in another?
    Answer : Muslims don't .. they fight only in Muslim countries .. But what is happening nowadays is because Muslims are hopeless .. but it stills a wrong action to explode foreign countries ..
    And for the history.. Muslims went to deliver the message of Islam .. but because they were prevented from telling the people about it they fought .. and as the Muslims above said .. You mustn't force anyone to enter Islam if not willingly .

    Question : Are Muslims God's favorites ?
    Answer : not necessarily .. The basic for God is to believe in him as a one unlimited power .. created everything by his will .. and has no equivalent . and then God will reward the best people .. And . When the person is Muslim .. he will probably be on the right way .
    On the other hand .. Jews or Zionists believe they are the chosen nation .. that's the wrong idea .
    NOTE : Muslims don't see that others are wrong but they see that others have some wrong points that needs to be corrected .

    Question : Why is the Christian allowed to change his religion at any time without being questioned , and the Muslin isn't?
    Answer : Who said Christian can change his religion ? basically Christians are Jews .. and there are only three main religions that believes in God as a one Mighty God ..
    Jews , Christians , and Muslims .
    Christian isn't allowed to convert to be non-believing .. And Islam came after Christianity .. which is another religion sent by God .. that's why Christians can convert to Islam and Muslims can't convert .. It's because Islam came to complete and correct previous religions ( of course previous religions were not wrong at first but they have been distorted by greedy leaders and priests) .. In Islam you can't change the Qur'an nor the Hadith .. because there will always be someone to find out the distortion and prove it's not original and many Muslims save the Qur'an in their brains and hearts . That's why the holy Qur'an lasted for 1400 years as the same words brought to prophet Mohammad by Gabriel the Angel (pbu them).

    Question : How have you come to the conclusion that Islam is only peace ?
    Answer : It's not the religion of peace . It's the religion of life . say's Allah in his book to his prophet : " If they offer peace (God means : the non-believers ), accept it , and rely on Allah " .
    So .. if a criminal stoles your car , rapes your sister ( God forbid ) , then what will you do ? you will kill him or at least kick him till he cries and screams of pain . Will you then be not – peaceful person ? will you be a criminal ? You tell me .

    Question : are the rules of Islam suitable for every time ? shouldn't they be updated ?
    Answer : No . the rules are very just . But the problem comes that each bad deed ( stealing , commit adultery , drinking Alcohol .. etc ) has terms to be punished for and people forget that .. for example : there are 5 things (terms) for the theft to cut the thief's hand for .. and if one of the 5 doesn't happen the punishment is much less hard .
    There's a rule in Islam which is :" necessities permits the forbiddances ." which is a base when circumstances are crucial .

    Question : Of what material does the Koran say Allah created Adam/man? answers, ranging from clay, to water, to nothing, to a clot of congealed blood !!
    Answer : God created Adam from nothing because the God created everything from nothing so Nothing is the base of everything .. The Will of God is the base of everything .
    And God created Adam from mud ('Teen in Arabic )which is soil plus water and when it dries it becomes clay .. and I'm not sure about the clot of blood .. but whatever it was remember that everything in the human body are water and materials found in the soil .

    Question : Is it true, as the Koran says, that Allah created everything as pair (eg. male/female)?
    Answer : Please give me an example of a thing that doesn't have a pair ..
    Even the Matter ( the material / the substance ) that includes every atom in the universe has a pair .. or an anti .. like electron has an anti electron named positron .. neutron and proton has antis .. etc

    Here I finish .. there's a lot to say about Islam .. but I hope I proved my point of view ..
    I hope anyone who has suspects to discuss .. Just be open-minded as you're asking us to be ..
    And .. whatever you think .. please pay some respect .. because even if you were right .. I won't listen if you insult me or hurt me ( of course this feature is in every human ) .

    I thank the editor and the Site ..
    I thank Mad Madsen for discussing and seeking after the truth .
    I thank Waz and Explorer for defending the Name of God with all the words that hurt ..
    And I have a request .. would the editor give me the e-mail of Waz and Mad Madsen after taking their permission ?

    Thanks
    An Arab Muslim .. A Human .. A seeker for truth .

  • antogonist

    @seeker of truth, trully beautiful and very true to life, I am a christian who has had many moslem friends for many years and your humble words are echoed by your brothers. For me Islam is an improvement upon the drug infested crime ridden streets we have become accustomed to expect in western society. On the other hand Iran an Islamic country has a very high drug addiction rate but if it had a high crime rate to accompany this I'm sure we would know of this, in fact I know we would so Islam has flaws also but the desire for good is there to be seen and is trully an inspiration to anyone who aquires to better themselves as a human being.

  • ralphie

    We must figure this out somehow. i mean, i am 1000% sure that the story we are being told is not accurate or complete something is up. i do belive, you believe there is a GOD. BUT i cant BELIEVE how you believe that. i am seriou.

  • antogonist

    @ralphie at the end of the day it doesnt really matter if there is a god or not the question is does a religion do any good to society? for me christianity does not help society it only encourages evil acts of pedophilia etc due to the claim that our sins will be forgiven if we believe jesus is the lord or whatever, this is nothing but Roman propaganda and has nothing to do with real christianity, it is all wrong and I'm sure Islam is wrong also but if you want proof of jesus being something greater than what is comprehendible to us then watch the documentary "the real face of jesus" it will make you at least consider that what we see in the world is not necessarily all that there is to it but I agree most of the religious stories are tall tales made up by people who wish to control the masses for their own gain most likely financial or political.

  • diplomat

    People u can not hate a reliogion because of couple people or what sombody is saying...
    IF anyone was smart enough u would understand that whytout islam u would not have the luxury, the knowlegde that we have today.. when the church was GUD i europe the muslim world was studinh atronomi,math,arktickt,innovation and democracy..
    the student that learn from this MUSLIMS and wise man came back to Paris and London and start Oxford cambridge and so on...

  • diplomat

    Islam fake...

    Learn your history.....

    Islam dominated only in Europe for more than 200 years and almost 500 years… I guess that u r from the us and how long u have been a country with balls 60 years ... come again about 400 more....

    Is better to talk s@#$ about people rather than about a religion.

    Do like to talk s@#$ about other religion is disrespectful.

  • antogonist

    im a christian, jews are murderers and are not gods chosen people, i hope one day your religion will be eradicated to enable the rest of the world to live in peace

  • Charles B.

    Wow! A "Jew," a "Christian," and a "Neo-Nazi" all behaving very badly. God forgive us!

  • jack1952

    The term Jihad is misunderstood, or so this doc says. OK. I'll take their word for it. Is the term Fatwa misunderstood also?

  • antogonist

    jack I was beginning to think that maybe moslems only act like this because of the oppression they have been experiencing from Israel which is pretty bad i have to say, in my opinion its as bad if not worse than the holocaust, also people tend to think the united states have did and continue to do some pretty bad stuff. Lately though I am under the impression from Asians that the bad things about Islam are acceptable to them because they think that you should only concentrate on the good things, I think they are pretty good at propaganda themselves and like to portray themselves as innocent lambs who are hard done by. I've heard some pretty horrific stories of poor Asian women from Philippines and places in that area working in these Arab countries because they are poor and desperate but Ive heard of two cases where people had pins hammered into there joints because they had the cheek to ask for their wages, this was on the uk news I also seen terrible pictures of a women who had been sliced up so bad for getting on the wrong side of their boss that there was no way they could stitch her up. Bad stuff happens in the west too but not in the same way usually, its usually caused through drugs or drink. Also our roads aren't chaotic like just about every arab and moslem country, I seen Irt worlds most dangerous roads which was in India, asked a few moslem friends of mine if this is normal and they they reply they are trained to drive like that just like people here are trained to drive like you do, in other words they talk rubbish and make things up to suit the situation. I mean can anybody explain to me what is up with these people, have they not got any proper intelligence to enable them to have simple laws to obey on the roads, also the sanitation in these countries is a disgrace, I'm beginning to think that the only thing wrong with this war is that we aren't getting our cut of the booty and the Americans better start coughing up some of the oil money we are due, tight tw*ts. otherwise this war could be seen as an antiholy and just war in the cause of killing people who are not even worthy of being alive, they just stink the place out and believe in a crazy religion that needs to be banned but so does Judaism. Why do I say that, in the united kingdom and Europe it is illegal to discriminate against others or exclude others so any religion which does that should be banned to meet with the European legislation in human rights, so why not it wouldn't be hard to enforce it would be a lot easier than what we are doing now I reckon

  • jack1952

    I'm from a Christian background myself and I'm not all that proud of that track record either. Slavery, witch hunts, Catholic vs Protestant wars just to name a few. I don't think anyone here should be throwing stones and every religion, race, country and political system should do some soul searching and do a little house cleaning. This doc does its own faith very little service by glossing over the nasty elements hidden in its philosophy.

  • antogonist

    jack know what u mean mate we have been nutters in the past, burning witches and what not and I know I am delving on the side of racism but I really don't understand how they cant maintain a decent level of hygiene and road safety, I know I'm getting racist but how else can I interpret the shortcomings of people like this, are the white and oriental races intellectually and morally superior to Arabic Asians and Africans and even south Americans, the aborigines are a very peaceful people though but a bit thick I think, racism is bad but its so blatantly obvious we are on different wavelengths with everything and maybe we need to protect ourselves in the old fashioned way using extermination or ruling over them. Or just warn them to sort their life's out or else they will regret it. I don't know I just think having them over here in large numbers is a road to self destruction because they are seeking to overthrow the present UK system in the future when their numbers get greater, I asked my moslem friends about this, I sent them undercover mosque, the reply I got was don't send me those things, or its all conspiracy or you need to look for the good in things not the bad, not one of them condemns what is said in that video and so what other conclusion can come of that than it is completely true. Very worrying for the future I think. It has been said there is a new interpretation of Islam coming out of Saudi Arabia called warbalism or something dont care what its called but moslems don't recognize that as being a different interpretation because it comes from the land of mecca, I have to ask why the USA has not invaded Saudi Arabia, I know they wont bcos they have access to their oil so there would be no reason other than defeating the source of this vile that's being spurted out against us.

  • Antogonist

    @Jewish Guy Israel forever sorry for being offensive to you I have been listening to propaganda too much.

    @all moslems the prophet mohammad was a sex offender who liked to do it with little kids and we know you do too, its part of Islam, you lot are disgusting and should be exterminated. God save Israel

  • Xmen

    I am an American and a former Christian. I rejected my faith later in my adult life because it was forced upon me and I had no freedom of choice. I am learning about Islam because of the faith not being forced upon me and because of a beautiful person in my life that is associated with it.
    The true doctrine of Islam is wonderful and it correlates with what I learned as a Christian with one major difference and the rest very similar. Christianity at it's core is also a good message. Both have shed blood in the name of their faith. There are radical chritians just as there are radical muslims and the same with Judaism as is evidenced in present day Palistine.
    Hold your religion and your faith in your heart and keep it in it's pure form away from the influences of this world. Practice it from within and do not succumb to outside of what you know to be true to that which you have studied and know to be right within your own soul.
    Only you are truly your own temple, church, mosque or synagogue and your heart is the leader of such a place.

  • tom

    When will we ever have had enough of religion and it's self-destructive chains to the past. I have read enough of Islam, Christianity and Jewry to realise that despite all the peaceful aspects that all religions claim to have, the actuality is that they are suffocating mankind in a fear inspired welter of blood, and destruction.

    Despite that, the West is making tremendous strides forward in the fields of science, engineering, (such as laser technology) and medicine such as the human genome sequence (which will cure many genetic diseases) as well as being on the brink of enlightenment of our creation with advances in astronomy and astrophysics.

    These tremendous advances were made not because of religion but in spite of it. Darwin and Galleleo risked ridicule and death to prove that the human race evolved, and that the Earth was not the centre of the universe.

    To say in a crisis that things are "The will of God" is to turn our backs on reason and learning and take a leap of faith into a dark, superstitious, Medieval past from which we will gain nothing but fear and mediocrity.

    The human race is capable of a tremendous amount of compassion, learning, understanding, empathy, peace and enlightenment, (more than we ever got from God) regardless of what part of the world we come from. No supreme being gave us these qualities we have them inherently.

    Jesus, and Mohammed would never have realised the World we live in their wildest dreams so why are so many of us still chained to their appalling lies of an apocalyptic inescapable eternal Hell.

    All religions have had their chance, and the result has been only death and destruction, only we can save us from ourselves and move on to a worldwide enlightened age free from the chains of faith religions whatever they may be. All we need to do is to show trust, compassion and faith in our fellow man.

  • Pyrrhus

    The end of religion will mark the birth of civilization.

  • Lary Nine

    Although there is no outright lying, there is a lot of taqiyya. "Taqiyya",an Arabic word,literally means:
    "concealing, guarding" and it's done here because the film is only presenting half the picture of Islam... only half the Quran as well. The Quran is comprised of 114 suras--- some were "recited" earlier in Mohammed's life in Mecca, others later on in Medina. The Meccan suras are known as the suras of peace and the Medinan as the "suras of the sword". Obviously, the Medinan suras are more violent than the Meccan--- as Mohammed became more disposed toward violent jihad and war as he got older. More importantly, the Islamic doctrine of "abrogation" allows contradictory suras to exist with the provision that the newer sura (the latest) overrides the older (the earliest). Hmmmm. They didn't mention this did they? I know why too... since the latter half of the Quran, recited from memory by Mohammed, who was illiterate, was written down by followers in Medina and was filled with bloody campaigns of violence and hateful rules and these suras abrogated (replaced) the earlier peace-loving suras....but wait a minute[?]... most of what they talked about in this film was the early suras... Peace and Love and No Compulsion in religion... Taqiyya, right!

  • Lary Nine

    @Vlatko
    Please note #105 & #107
    This was posted by: 'Jewish Guy- Israel Forever' in #105
    "oh yeah and american soldiers who have come back from Iraq tell me that these muslims smell so bad it’s horrible!!"

    Then American Dream in #107:
    "this is why it is a travesty some of the jews escaped the gas chambers, do you see, Heil Hitler"

    I'm all for the 1st amendment, but these comments aren't an exercise of free speech--- the're more like "free drool".

  • Pyrrhus

    Atheism = Peace

  • Kurrrt

    There cannot or never be one god, unless one language is spoken world wide. One god cannot speak to all simply because each country has invented their own for themselves seperately in various languages. Keep repeting your own particular god(s)rein and it will one day through generations become only the thought of being a truth. What we look for in a god can only be defined through one focus within all of mankind as one race. What man looks for and cannot find is this small part of mankinds creator, and it is coalested within us all as one human race. Which this 100%focus together would create man to evolve into a higher plain of existence. Religions restrict this focus on humanity, with it's belief and faith in gods aiming mans focus into nothing but the emptyness of space. In which no gods exist in the first place. (Unknown to humanity there's darker forces which successfully inflicted these actions, long ago, and you distractedly allowed it).
    On the other hand, visitors to the planet in ancient times were coined the name god, simply for control, which worked only for their agendas alone. As history is slowly washed away through time, these records are distorted and deceptions are added. As the confusion rises all gets further miss-understood. Always remember the truth is coalested within us all, as one human race. No one says it better or has the clues than St Augustine. My information comes from off planet. There's no doubt our actions are being frowned on by the seeders of our planet. But I'm no expert

  • Human

    why we forget that we are all humans live in the same world ,breath the same air and share the same food i know that we belong to a different religions but our god didn't choose his followers and neglect the others he was mercy to us all without consideration to our religion or color ,so our god didn't judge us so why we judge our selves ? .
    The purpose of our creation is to live ,know and accept each other with all our differences .
    it doesn't mean that whatever my religion i am not a human need to love and be loved form another human whatever his religion and remember that i am dealing with a human not dealing with his god .
    so the matter of judging a religion is wrong and not accepted cause we are all humans and we are all sinners and whatever me religion is true or wrong ;it doesn't mean that if it's true that i am going to heaven and it doesn't mean that if it is wrong that i am going to hell cause it all depends on my acts in the real life as a human with other humans .
    so as i human i apologize if my words hurt another human and i want any one have offense another one as a human or his religion to apologize to each other cause that we will judged with at the judgment day.

  • aaangie123

    if only they did live as they claim in this show, then there would be no need to try and justify the atrocities committed

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000243889986 Jheng Roque Sotto

    im not muslim person but i learned some of their rules specially in woman . i respect the law of muslim religions . i like their links specially comes what is the right for the women and to handle one family i like their traditions about the family and i respect them. islam means peace or brotherhood...

  • who_me_yeah_you

    If you were driven by a desire for a religion that didn't shed blood you'd have gone for Buddhism or something. Fortunately you told us why you went for the Islamic bias rather than Christian bias. You fell in love with a very beautiful muslim and cant get married as an infidel. This love helps you see through the evil practices attached to the core of the good christian message. It also helps you to see the lies imposed on the good faith of islam.

  • http://www.facebook.com/aerokossa Shane Cormier

    watch the third jihad or islam what the west needs to know. i will fight for my families rights especially the right for my daughter and if that means to wear the cross of the knights templar and defend myself against the great satan called islam, then so be it. islam teaches hate and although I am aure there are good muslim people out there, I have seen enough proof that islam is trying to take over the world and even though there is enough room for all of us, they do not think there is. And thats scary enough for me. Call me a bigot or a zenophobe or whatever else you can pull out of the dictionary. i do not care.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FX5QC7S2UWGAFNOHBS5YO7IZNE Yahya

    Have you ever thought maybe the images and information you have received has been tainted to make you feel they don't live that way. If you know history and traveled to other countries you would see that Muslims in most instances are good people. In fact when you look at it historically Islam is by far a more peaceful religion that Christianity has been. Unfortunately we here and in the west have been fed a continuous doses of tainted bad medicine.........brainwashing hate.

  • 19Fatimah93

    Shane,
    You might want to look into the atrocitites that were committed by Christians such as the Inquisition before denouncing Islam. Musims today who commit such acts of violence have reason to do so because their homes have been invavded and destroyed, their loved ones killed and they have had to put up with so many negativities said about Islam in the media. The Inquisition, witch hunts, etc were carried out without no good reason killing millions. And by the way, Islam is not trying to take over the world, it just is because more and more people are seeing that it is the truth and they themselves are turning to Islam. Also, if you think that the world would be better off without Islam, then you are terribly wrong. While Europe was in its darkest ages, the Islamic world was rich in Science, medicine, and Innovation. This knowledge is what has formed the backbone of science today. Obviously, it was stolen during the Inquisition by the Christians and taken back to Europe. So, before you make negative claims towards Islam, go educate yourself on the true message of Islam, and then realize that this world would not be where it is today were it not for the Great Islamic Thinkers.

    By the way, dont try to learn Islam from the media or from Western perceptions of Islam. Also, dont look at extremists or fanatics for an idea of what Islam is. Read the original source, the Quran, or books by Muslim authors who understand the religion correctly.

    Salaam (peace) :)

  • 19Fatimah93

    You will know whos dead for real when you die.....

  • 19Fatimah93

    Shane,
    You might want to look into the atrocitites that were committed by Christians such as the Crusades before denouncing Islam. Musims today who commit such acts of violence have reason to do so because their homes have been invavded and destroyed, their loved ones killed and they have had to put up with so many negativities said about Islam in the media. The Crusades,Inquisition, witch hunts, etc were carried out without no good reason killing millions. And by the way, Islam is not trying to take over the world, it just is because more and more people are seeing that it is the truth and they themselves are turning to Islam. Also, if you think that the world would be better off without Islam, then you are terribly wrong. While Europe was in its darkest ages, the Islamic world was rich in Science, medicine, and Innovation. This knowledge is what has formed the backbone of science today. Obviously, it was stolen during the Crusades by the Christians and taken back to Europe. So, before you make negative claims towards Islam, go educate yourself on the true message of Islam, and then realize that this world would not be where it is today were it not for the Great Islamic Thinkers.

    By the way, dont try to learn Islam from the media or from Western perceptions of Islam. Also, dont look at extremists or fanatics for an idea of what Islam is. Read the original source, the Quran, or books by Muslim authors who understand the religion correctly.

    Salaam (peace) :)

  • http://profiles.google.com/hunii.omer Hunii Omer

    No. Atheism = ignorance+arrogance+commitment-phobic

  • http://profiles.google.com/hunii.omer Hunii Omer

    your talking about sex offending. Jewish. aint like judaism is all cakes and cherries. Islam = peace, Love, compassion and submission.
    Judaism = not so much.
    Child abuse:The Bible claimed that if parents loved their children, they would punish them — with a rod. (Proverbs 13:24, 22:15.) In fact, it encouraged heavy use of the rod, reassuring parents that the child "will not die." (Proverbs 23:13.) But even more incredibly, the Bible claimed that heavy, injurious beatings brought a spiritual benefit to the victim. (Proverbs 20:30.)

    It gets worse. Parents could legally kill stubborn and rebellious children, as well as children who merely cursed, disrespected or disobeyed them. (Exodus 21:17; Deuteronomy 21:18-21; Leviticus 20:9.)

    Children were also frequently punished for the sins of their parents. Fathers could sell their daughters into slavery to pay a debt. (Exodus 21:7-11.) For a sin that Ham committed, his son Canaan was cursed to become "the lowest of slaves" to Ham's brothers. (Genesis 9:20-27.) A bastard was not allowed to enter the Assembly of the Lord -- and neither were his next ten generations. (Deuternomy 23:2.)
    Misogyny: The Bible’s treatment of women was abominable. Women not only had a submissive and inferior status to men, but they were considered chattel. (Genesis 3:16, Exodus 21:7-11, Numbers 30.) God set the monetary value of women at 50 to 66 percent of that of men. (Leviticus 27:3-7.) Women were to learn quietly and submissively from men, and were never to teach men or have authority over them. (1 Timothy 2:11,12.)

    Double standards abounded. A wife found guilty of adultery was to be killed along with her lover. (Deuteronomy 22:22.) But, hypocritically, no law prevented a married man from carrying on with as many affairs as he pleased, as long as they were not with other men's wives. Likewise, prostitution was illegal for Jewish women. (Deuteronomy 23:17.) But there was no law forbidding foreign women to be prostitutes in Israel, or for Jewish men to frequent them — which was a common practice. And if a master and his female servant had sex, and the woman was engaged to another man, the master merely had to pay a fine, but the woman was to be whipped. (Leviticus 19:20-22.)

    The Bible found no fault with Abraham and Isaac for knowingly giving their wives to other men for sexual use. (Genesis 12:11-16; Genesis 26:7-10.) In fact, the Bible praised Lot and Ephremite for offering their daughters to be raped, so this fate would not befall their male guests. (Genesis 19:1-8; Judges 19:22-24.) If a man raped a virgin who was not engaged to be married, his "punishment" was to pay a fine and marry her. (Exodus 22:16.) As for female servants, male masters could legally rape them. (Exodus 21:7-11; Leviticus 19:20-22; Deuteronomy 21:10-14.) The Bible even shows such holy men as Abraham and Jacob forcing sex on their female slaves (Genesis 16:1-2, Genesis 30:9-10.) Curiously, Christians defend servitude in the Bible by claiming that the rights of these servants were "well-regulated." (!)

    Throughout history, men have accused women of "penis envy," but the Bible contains many inadvertent examples of womb envy. The most famous is the story of Adam, who gives birth to Eve when God reaches into Adam’s body and pulls out the rib that eventually becomes Eve. (Genesis 2:21-22.) The story continues in a misogynistic vein, blaming the fall of the human race primarily on Eve, even though Adam ate the forbidden fruit too. As punishment, God tells Eve that her husband shall rule over her — which is more of a reward than a punishment for Adam. God also afflicts Eve with pain during childbirth, a curse apparently so pleasing to the male writers of the Bible that they gratuitously repeated it twice. To make matters worse, the Lord then gives Eve a sexual attraction to her husband, so she will be constantly led into this painful state. But when it comes to Adam, God curses the ground, not Adam. (Genesis 3:16-19.)

  • http://profiles.google.com/meepak Deepak Mahat

    "Islam doesn't support killing of non-combatant" .. So untrue, look at the history....muslims had killed so many civilians during invading of Indus valley civilization..and Hindu people saw that sort of evil acts of mass killing villagers and raping of innocent woman first time ever in their civilization history....Islam no way supports peaceful co-existant with people with different belief system. That's again can be shown by the fact that Muslims spent so much effort in destroying every books, temples and artificats of Indus Valley Civilization just because they were in different belief system. Just invading the land wasn't enough for them, they want to kill each and every people who would not follow them and they want to destroy the belief system in existing Indus Valley Civilization...That's just one example I raised...There are thousands of them if one interest to do some research over facts....

    In quran it's clearly said in so many places that people who doesn't believe in allah are evil and if they are slaughtered, you will reach me (allah).

    If anyone can convince me that ISLAM is not equal to EVIL, I would be glad to listen and try my best to understand it...but from my study of history...nothing like that has come upfront yet!!

    I always thought religion is made for goodness of people, god is a metaphor for good deeds...But after going through theological research out of interest...some religion are really evil whether ones agree or not!!

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ EVERYBODY
    4,000 lesbians and gays have been executed since the 1979 Islamic revolution. Methods of execution include; beheading, chopped in two, stoning to death, burning alive, and being thrown alive from a high building.
    ________________________________________
    Google:
    "Real execution :(( Stop The Gay Crime , Iran!! :(("
    ________________________________________
    warning -- graphic

  • metalmaji

    Even bible prohibits sex with same sex, and punishment as death penalty... It become a problem only when it happens in Islam.. Every 32 sec a rape takes place in US.. If they implement Sharia Law will the rape rate increase? stays same? or reduce?

  • metalmaji

    Are you talking about Islam or Muslim? Read Quran ONCE, and see if there is anything wrong for the humanity.

  • geome_44

    I don't don't care how many rapes happen every thirty-two seconds. The Western society doesn't condone rape and it is punishable by law. In Islamic run societies, homosexuality is punished by execution. We're not weighing moralities, but political/social tolerance.

  • 0zyxcba1

    a t h e i s m = p e a c e

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VH4REBEVQU27KAHWXC67NVE3X4 Justice

    eh , what are u talking about, u follow the media to see how Muslims behave, politics guide medias to show what they want. Try to read the Quran and ask if u find wrong things , the Quran is the best one to follow for man and woman.
    u should know that Muslim people want to talk to others about the true religion of God because if u think a little bit one God has a one religion no more than one. but what about crimes done by a minority of Muslims u know that in any religion there are some extremist and who have this behavior can't be Muslims and they don't follow the true Islamic religion, because if u look in Quaran we don't have right to kill anyone who doesn't commit any crime but in other way Muslims should fight against anybody who wants to attack Islamic religion the religion of God.
    the Islamic religion is very tolerant but u have to understand it, i suppose u trust on God so there is a religion to practice to win the afterlife , so try to read the Quran and u will see how Islamic is the right one.

  • 0zyxcba1

    All of any religion(including Islam) is wrong for humanity.
    Just ask any atheist.

    a t h e i s m = p e a c e

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Hunii Omer,

    I couldn't agree with you more!

    The Torah is garbage.
    The so-called 'New Testament' is garbage.
    And the Q'aran is garbage.

    All religion is garbage!

    a t h e i s m = p e a c e

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ 19Fatimah93,

    Christianity's history is the cruelest I know.
    Judaism written word is the cruelest I know.
    Islam's current practice is the cruelest I know.

    I know of no religion that has been, or is, of any benefit to anyone. I know of no religion that has not been the direct cause of wholly unnecessary and unjustifiable agony.

    If the disease of religion is ever eradicated, as has been smallpox, the world will be so much better off(or, at the very least, far less bad off).

    You have not one shred of evidence to back up your claims, yet you beat people in the name of your sky-daddy spook.

    'Salaam', my A$$(you're such a fake)!

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ 19Fatimah93,

    Christianity's history is the cruelest I know.
    Judaism written word is the cruelest I know.
    Islam's current practice is the cruelest I know.

    I know of no religion that has been, or is, of any benefit to anyone. I know of no religion that has not been the direct cause of wholly unnecessary and unjustifiable agony.

    If the disease of religion is ever eradicated, as has been smallpox, the world will be so much better off(or, at the very least, far less bad off).

    You have not one shred of evidence to back up your claims, yet you beat people in the name of your sky-daddy spook.

    'Salaam', my A$$(you're such a fake)!

  • 0zyxcba1

    prove it

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Katie Katherina Fabik

    "blatant accusations?" and "insults?"
    "western point of view...must be full of misconceptions?"

    Tell that to Salman Rushdie and other Muslim apostates. Tell your horrific lie to the thousands of gays executed in Iran for loving each other. Tell that to the women who have had to endure 100 lashes. Tell that to the 100 shot dead by Muslims world-wide due to Danish cartoons of Mohammed. (How many Infidels did YOU peacefully shoot?)

    Islam? P e a c e f u l ?
    ROTFLMFAO!

    You HATE freedom of speech!
    You prove it again, and again, and again, and again, and again, then cite TDF postings to counter the charge.

    Pathetic.

    Yeah, go tell your pathetic little story to Theo van Gogh. You know, the Dutch guy shot EIGHT times in the back before having is head severed from his body by Muslim defenders of YOUR p e a c e f u l Muslim faith.

    You're nothing but a sick, pitiful, tasteless joke.

    And your spiteful, presumptuous, arrogance in assuming nobody here knows anything about your crummy religion. I have read the Koran
    (in English) cover-to-cover. I'll bet YOU haven't read the whole Koran!

    I came away from your Sacred Q'oran wholly unimpressed and very BORED.

    And you can take you sweet 'guide to Islam' and shove it.

    Judaism is garbage. Xtianity is garbage. Islam is garbage.
    All religion is garbage!

    Stop with your lies that Islam is all about p e a c e.
    Stop with your lies about the Koran being the alpha and the omega,
    'cuz it ain't!

    Just stop. You're making a fool of yourself.

  • http://www.topdocumentaryfilms.com Epicurus

    what are you thoughts on Muhammad having sex with a 9 year old girl?

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Epicurus,
    He must have been Catholic.

  • 0zyxcba1

    That was then. This is now.

    It would NOT "become a problem only when it happens in Islam" if Leviticus, etc., were being carried out today. But it isn't.

    And you know it.

    This business of comparing what Islam does today, June 1st, 2011, with what occurred in Christianity in the Middle Ages and to the writings in the Torah, is nonsense.

    And you know it.

    Neither is Christianity or Judaism throwing gays from high towers or hanging them or chopping their heads off; nor are Christianity and Judaism beating women in the public square, nor issuing death threats to apostates; nor killing cartoonists. ISLAM IS.

    And you now it.

    I am sick to death of Muslims playing the part of downtrodden victim when it is Islam that is doing the victimizing. That sick creep running that stupid Baptist denomination that goes about picketing funerals and stirring up hate against gays has not, to my knowledge, killed anyone. ISLAM HAS.

    And you know it.

    We went out in the tens of millions all over the world to protest my county's illegal, immoral bombing and subsequent invasion of the sovereign nation of Iraq. Where were you when and your 'moderate' friends when Dutch film director Theo van Gogh was shot EIGHT TIMES in the back before having his head severed from his body by Muslims defending the faith. Where were You? In Belgium there were demonstration against discrimination against Muslims. They couldn't take and hour or so out of their activities to protest the murder of poor Theo.

    And you know it.

    Don't play 'the victim'. It's not worthy of you. Or is it?

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Deepak,

    Don't teenage boys who are gay count as non-combatants?

    Answer me!

    Don't teenage boys who are gay count as non-combatants?

    And if they do count as non-combatants, why, then, are you killing them by the thousands for loving each other.

    Answer me!

    Or maybe you're scared to.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Justice(nice name you've chosen; I shudder to think what you might be trying to say with it!),

    "...look in Quaran we don't have right to kill anyone" except teenage gays, by the thousands. That's okay, I guess. If it IS okay, then you know what you can do with your medieval religion!

    I am one of those who wants "to attack Islamic religion the religion of God." If I give you my home address are you going to chop my head off.

    My, my, how civilized!

    You, and your bronze age religion, are a sick joke.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Lary9, people who hate free speech always start out by proclaiming:
    "I'm all for the 1st amendment,"
    BUT...

  • Muhammad Abdullah

    When was Muhammad (peace be upon him) alive?

    Historically, 1400+ years ago. Now 1400 years ago is a lot different from now. During the Prophet hood of Muhammad (PBUH) he had a lot of enemies who tried to defame him and spread slander. But those enemies never ever talked about his marriage to that particular wife. Why?

    Because 1400 years ago, in Arabia it was a common practice for men to marry very young girls. It was not considered wrong.

    Also as a matter of fact, she prior to being his wife was engaged to someone else before the Prophet (PBUH) married her.

    And if the Prophet (PBUH) only wanted a young girl, why is it that all his other wives were older. Some in their 50s, some in their 30s and some a bit younger?

    To end with, you're using what you feel is right to judge someone else’s culture and norms based on your culture. That’s assuming you are right. That 18 years old is proper and anything else is improper. Who says?

  • Muhammad Abdullah

    @ Ozyxcba1

    Hey there,

    I'm a Muslim convert and as Muslims we don't take the place of victims and we never will (in the sense you have explained anyway). There is though millions of innocent Muslims being killed overseas by foreign troops.

    Christianity's law was dismantled when they decided that state and religion should be separated. And if the Christians were to follow the Christian rule and law, then same sex marriages would be prohibited and punishment would be the death penalty.

    The difference in Islam is, that there is to be no division between state and Masjid (equivalent to church).

    And the term Muslim means to obey and submit to Allah. Allah BTW is the word for God in Arabic. If you go to a Christian church in the Arab world and read their bible it will have the word Allah.

    And as a Muslim, we ask ourselves whose God and whose the follower. You cannot obey Allah on your own terms. The reason why we don't accept homosexuality is because Allah said so. And there is wisdom in why Allah commanded people not to be a homosexual. For example, The Medical Institute of Sexual Health reported in 1999 that:

    1)"Homosexual men are at significantly increased risk of HIV/AIDS, hepatitis, anal cancer, gonorrhea and gastrointestinal infections as a result of their sexual practices."
    2) "Women who have intercourse with women are at significantly increased risk of bacterial vaginosis, breast cancer and ovarian cancer than are heterosexual women."
    3)"Significantly higher percentages of homosexual men and women abuse drugs, alcohol and tobacco than do heterosexuals." It seems that there is a correlation between the choice to pursue homosexuality and the choice to pursue other self-destructive behaviors as well, since the initial barriers of rational and moral restraint to the deleterious undertakings of those individuals have fallen. (Unedited Extract)

  • Muhammad Abdullah

    Hey Deepak,

    I'm a new Muslim and I am not familiar with what happened in India with the Hindus and Muslims.

    I do however know, that rape and murder is haram (prohibited in Islam). You learn this in "Islam 101".

    If a Muslim individual or group does a bad deed, that just means he or they are bad Muslims. It is not fair then to judge a whole system, a whole society, a whole culture and a whole religion, based on the actions of a few individuals or group.

    The verse which you have quoted, is not properly quoted but I will give an explanation to it.

    Many critics of Islam including Arun Shourie quote Surah Al-Tawbah chapter 9 verse 5

    “… Fight and slay the Mushrik/Kafir (Hindu) wherever you find them …”
    (Al Qur’an 9:5)

    The first few verses of Surah Tawbah before verse 5 speak about the peace treaty between the Muslims and Muskhriks (polytheists) of Makkah. This peace treaty was unilaterally broken by the Mushriks of Makkah. In verse no. 5 Allah (swt) gives them an ultimatum to put things straight in four months’ time, or else face a declaration of war. It is for the battlefield that Allah says “fight and slay the Mushriks (i.e. the enemies from Makkah) wherever you find them and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war”.

    Arun Shourie in his book ‘The World of Fatwas’ after quoting Surah Tawbah chapter 9 verse 5 jumps to verse 7. Any logical person will realize that verse 6 has the reply to his allegation.

    Surah Tawbah chapter 9 verse 6 says:

    “If any amongst the Mushriks (i.e. the enemies)
    ask thee for asylum, grant it to him so that
    he may hear the word of Allah and then
    escort him to where he can be secure”.
    (Al Qur’an 9:6)

    Today the most merciful army general may tell his soldiers to let the enemy go, but Almighty Allah in the Qur’an says if the enemy wants peace do not just let them go but escort them to a place of security. Which army general in today’s day and age, or rather in the whole of recorded human history is ever known to have given such merciful instructions? Now will someone ask Mr. Arun Shourie why did he deliberately not quote verse 6?

    ****Fighting prescribed in the Bhagavad Gita too***

    All the major religions of the world have prescribed fighting, at sometime or the other, especially in self-defence or for fighting against oppression.

    Mahabharata is an epic and sacred Scripture of the Hindus, which mainly deals with a fight between the cousins, the Pandavas and the Kauravas. In the battlefield Arjun prefers not to fight and be killed rather than having his conscience burdened with the killing of his relatives. At this moment, Krishna advises Arjun in the battlefield and this advice is contained in the Bhagvad Gita. There are several verses in the Bhagvad Gita where Krishna advises Arjun to fight and kill the enemies even though they are his relatives.

    There are hundreds of verses in the Bhagvad Gita alone, which encourages fighting and killing, many times more as compared to such verses in the Qur’an.

    Critics of Islam including Hindu critics speak against the Qur’an and the Prophet when they say that if you are killed while doing Jihad i.e. fighting for the truth, you are promised paradise.

    In Bhagavad Gita there are verses guaranteeing a person paradise if he is killed while fighting. Take the example of Bhagavad Gita Chapter 2 verse 37:

    “O son of Kunti, either you will be killed in the battlefield and attain the heavenly planets (paradise), or you will conquer and enjoy the earthly kingdom, therefore get up and fight with determination”.
    (Bhagavad Gita 2:37)

  • Lary9

    I'm not one of them. You have a good point and I may have reacted too emotionally. Usually I think through an idea before I release it to my mouth for oral presentation. Hate is always less toxic when it's vented openly in the light. But I often struggle with whether or not the excrement of hate in the guise of free speech should be protected.

  • Guest

    Why is it, i so often get the feeling you are shouting?
    Are you aloud to do that in your social life too?
    You must be a ball in a party?
    There is a way to make a point with a different attitude, even sounds smarter specially in public.
    You have a lot to say, we are listening and a lot of time agree, look at the chart.
    Fuck*n tone down please, you are at the front of the pack.

    in friendship
    az

  • metalmaji

    There are more "put to deaths" in bible than in Quran. But did a Muslim ever insulted that? NO.

  • metalmaji

    Nowadays also in different parts on the country women get their puberty in different ages. It depends on area, climate, food they eat. etc. There is no fixed age for puberty. When Mohamed and 9 year old girl got married by their own free will what is your problem? You should have read Marriage in Islam. You listen to the s*** from the Media, and come here and talk as if you know everything about Islam.... I'll tell you one thing about Christians. They don't know who they are worshiping, whether Jesus or God (father). They keep saying God is one.

  • David

    Atheism =/= Peace. Ask Mao Zedong, Stalin, Pol Pot, or any Communist

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Muhammad Abdullah,

    "Homosexual men are at significantly increased risk of HIV/AIDS, hepatitis, anal cancer, gonorrhea and gastrointestinal infections as a result of their sexual practices."

    @Abdullah, are you, or are you not, attempting to justify the executions of gay men?

    A simple 'yes' or 'no' will do.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ EVERYBODY!

    When it was pointed out to @MuhammadAbdullah that, contrary to his claim that Islam is the religion of 'peace', Islam has been directly responsible for the execution of thousands of gay men, @MuhammadAbdullah responded(in part) as follows:

    "1) Homosexual men are at significantly increased risk of HIV/AIDS, hepatitis, anal cancer, gonorrhea and gastrointestinal infections as a result of their sexual practices.

    "2) Women who have intercourse with women are at significantly increased risk of bacterial vaginosis, breast cancer and ovarian cancer than are heterosexual women.

    "3) Significantly higher percentages of homosexual men and women abuse drugs, alcohol and tobacco than do heterosexuals." It seems that there is a correlation between the choice to pursue homosexuality and the choice to pursue other self-destructive behaviors as well, since the initial barriers of rational and moral restraint to the deleterious undertakings of those individuals have fallen. (Unedited Extract)."

    In reaction to @MuhammadAbdullah's statement #1, I have requested of @MuhammadAbdullah an answer to the following question:

    @Abdullah, are you, or are you not, attempting to justify the executions of gay men?

    A simple 'yes' or 'no' will do.

    I await @MuhammadAbdullah's answer to my question and will keep you posted.
    _______________________________________________________________
    While we are waiting, I should like to entertain all of you with two other quotes from @MuhammadAbdullah regarding executions and beatings.

    @MuhammadAbdullah writes:

    "And the term Muslim means to obey and submit to Allah."
    • • •
    "And as a Muslim, we ask ourselves whose God and whose the follower.
    You cannot obey Allah on your own terms."

    I will leave it to you, the reader, to draw your own conclusions.

    Salaam.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ metalmaji,
    You sound like you're keeping score.
    Are you at all saddened by the slaughter by Muslims of 4000 gay men from 1979 to 2011 ???

    Just asking.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ metalmaji,

    Let's see if I've got this right.

    Because of the horrific violence in the United States,
    it's okay for Muslims to slaughter 4000 gay men.

    Is that what you are saying?

    And, btw, how do you feel about the rapes taking place in the US? Does it sadden you as it saddens me?

    Are you saddened by the Muslim slaughter of 4000 gay men?

    Numbers are all very well and good. But how do FEEL ???

    Do you weep every night as you fall asleep thinking of young men being killed because they love each other?

    HOW DO YOU FEEL?

    Do you feel?

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Muhammad Abdullah,
    Excuses. Excuses. Excuses.

  • 0zyxcba1

    Azilda,
    I am not shouting.
    It just looks that way because the subject matter is so unspeakably horrific, don't you agree?

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Azilda,
    Concerning the executions of 4000 gays, one thing I have never heard from any Muslim(and, btw, this is no generalization!)...
    One thing I have never, ever, heard from any Muslims, ever,
    is something to the effect of:

    Yes, I know.
    It's horrible.
    I wish there was something I could do.
    I am so sorry.

    Never. Not once. Not ever.

    Instead, I get finger pointing, excuses, defensive rhetoric,
    but never, never, ever, a simple, I'm sorry.

    Not ever. Not once. Never.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @Azilda, instead of asking me,

    'Why is it, i so often get the feeling you are shouting?',

    maybe you should be asking a different question, like:

    Why are Muslims not shouting out against the wholesale slaughter, by Muslims, of people like me?

    Just a thought :-)

  • testicularfortitude

    what did Theo do now?

  • Guest

    This conversation is about two subjects you hold at heart. Religion and Homosexuality. Of course you are going to be emotional and temperamental. I do understand that.
    This Muhammad guy has written three comments so far on TDF, 3. May be his last. Sometimes peace is to let go. Most people here hear you. One has to realize that you will not convince your direct opponent but you may change the view of the ones who have decided to slowly walk your way if you chose your words correctly.

    The real problem may be the way Sex is perceived by sexual religious and non religious people, by you, me and them all.

    Why can we eat whatever we want but we can't have sex the way we want? Why can we walk with guns and fight wars but we can't lay naked on a beach? Why is it ok for couples to watch porn movie and it is also ok for those same people to bash strippers? Why is it ok for adults to feel sexual but it is not ok for a baby to play with it's sexual parts?

    Sex may be the deepest part of the wart.
    az

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ LordGav1n,

    a) Communism is a religion.
    b) The reason Mao Zedong, Stalin, Pol Pot,...
    were all monsters is because they did not believe in Santa Clause.

    Don't you know anything?

    a t h e i s m = p e a c e

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Muhammad Abdullah,

    "I'm a Muslim convert and as Muslims we don't take the place of victims and we never will (in the sense you have explained anyway)."

    That's great!

    Now, do you, or do you not, condone the execution of gay Muslim men?

    A simple 'yes' or 'no' will do.

    "There is though millions of innocent Muslims being killed overseas by foreign troops."

    I know. I have taken part in dozens of demonstrations against my country's crimes. And I will continue to do so and will do whatever else I can to stop US crimes.

    Now, do you, or do you not, condone the execution of gay Muslim men?

    A simple 'yes' or 'no' will do.

    "Christianity's law was dismantled when they decided that state and religion should be separated. And if the Christians were to follow the Christian rule and law, then same sex marriages would be prohibited and punishment would be the death penalty."

    You're are absolutely correct!
    Every civilized country stopped those kinds of religious practices a long time ago.

    Now, do you, or do you not, condone the execution of gay Muslim men?

    A simple 'yes' or 'no' will do.

    "The difference in Islam is, that there is to be no division between state and Masjid (equivalent to church)."

    Yes, I know.

    Now, do you, or do you not, condone the execution of gay Muslim men?

    A simple 'yes' or 'no' will do.

    "And the term Muslim means to obey and submit to Allah. Allah BTW is the word for God in Arabic. If you go to a Christian church in the Arab world and read their bible it will have the word Allah."

    Yes, I know.

    Now, do you, or do you not, condone the execution of gay Muslim men?

    A simple 'yes' or 'no' will do.

    "And as a Muslim, we ask ourselves whose God and whose the follower. You cannot obey Allah on your own terms. The reason why we don't accept homosexuality is because Allah said so. And there is wisdom in why Allah commanded people not to be a homosexual. For example, The Medical Institute of Sexual Health reported in 1999 that..."

    Yes, yes, I know. I've read all three 'pastings'.

    Now, do you, or do you not, condone the execution of gay Muslim men?

    A simple 'yes' or 'no' will do.

    Well?
    I'm waiting.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ testicularfortitude
    "what did Theo do now?"

    Theo made a movie about the abuse of Muslim women.

    For details, Google:
    BBC News Life of slain Dutch film-maker
    __________________________________________________
    Also, see the documentar:
    Bloody Cartoons
    #7 in the Religion section

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1313520708 Katie Katherina Fabik

    0zyxcba1
    Earlier in the comments you said something like you had never in your life heard a muslim react to the executions of homosexuals with a "I am sorry, that's terrible" or something alike... With all due respect I have a piece of advice for you- maybe if you reconsidered the tone in your speech when dealing with muslims, chose a little more appropriate words when talking about their religion, then they would as well say something like "oh that's terrible, it saddens me to hear that". But so far all of the comments I have read from you didn't allow any reaction of such type.
    Please, learn to show a little more respect and you'll be surprised to see people repaying it to you.
    I think you need to rethink your attitude and behavior and people will all seem a little more friendly to you.
    I am sorry if I offended you with the link I enlisted. I by no means wanted to push anybody into anything they didn't want.
    As for me, I feel sorry for the executions of homosexuals and I feel sorry for all unnecessary deaths in the world. But you don't know me and don't know muslims, you are not a mind reader as I assume,... Who gave you the right to guess their thoughts or their feelings?
    And how do muslims shout to the world that they are the victims? If anybody's shouting then it's people like you.... You estimate that islam is at fault for every conflict that you see occur in the Muslim countries... While many times it has nothing to do with the religion, or the ordinary muslims (whatever the media keeps convincing you of) but with the political situation. Please be so kind and see to every problem from the perspective of the people who live in it... And stop pressuming that you can read their minds.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1313520708 Katie Katherina Fabik

    I have studied a little this issue of the age of Aisha and I came across various sources that disagree with the assumption that Aisha was nine years old. First you need to realize that it was not a common practice to celebrate birthdays and so far I haven't heard of a document that would confirm she was nine at the time of sexual intercourse. It is supposed to have been narrated in some hadeeths but there are others that oppose it. New evidence shows that she was much older at that time.
    Even according to some verses in the Holy Quran it is crucial to be mature (in a post-pubertal age) at the time of entering the bond of marriage. And there are other facts that strongly defy the possibility of Aisha being nine years old at that time.
    These are my thoughts on the subject. If you want I could address the question in a little more detail and enlist the sources I have.

  • metalmaji

    Are you a gay? All you talk about is gay gay gay?

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Azilda,

    This conversation is about two subjects they hold to dear to their hearts: religion and homosexuality. Of course, they are going to be emotional and temperamental. I do understand that. This Muhammad guy has written three comments so far, so offensive, that all three boarder on the threatening, and I doubt seriously that the likes of him will ever stop. His latest will certainly not be his last. Sometimes peace can be had only by standing up to bullies. They have to realize that they will never convince me of their views and that preaching to me about sky-daddies, or providing me the 'guide to Islam' link, is futile. I learned long ago, never to walk with enemies, and I do know who my enemies are--trust me! So, they had better choose their words correctly.

    The real problem for sexually religious and non-religious people is the way sex is perceived by them(and maybe you; I don't know). Fortunately, for me, I do not share with them this, their problem.

    "...we can't have sex the way we want?"
    Of course, we can! I do it all the time. And if anybody tried to stop me, win or loose, they wouldn't forget the encounter!

    "...we can't lay naked on a beach?"
    Of course, we can! It's done in Europe all the time and not because someone gave Europeans 'permission'. Europeans TAKE their freedom(there's no one there to 'give' it to them but themselves), and so can we, if only we want to. Unless, and until, one defies a pig, freedom can never exist.

    "...it is also ok for those same people to bash strippers?"
    Azilda, what HAVE you been smoking?!
    It is NEVER 'ok' for anyone to 'bash' anyone. That's what the 2nd Amendment is for!

    "...it is not ok for a baby to play with it's sexual parts?"
    Whatever you are smoking, Azilda, it sure as hell ain't weed!
    I do not know what you are talking about. Babies do as they please. If anyone, including parents, begin to abuse a baby in order to stop natural behavior... Well, that's what prisons are for.

    Azilda, your rhetorical questions made no sense to me, and I think I know why. They make no sense to me, because they make no sense.

    Never tolerate the intimidations of a bully.
    Bullies always back down in the end, and if they don't:
    Never tolerate the intimidations of a bully.

    The problem is not about that which I can and/or cannot do, rather, the problem is the problem those folks who try to protect me form myself are going to face. They'll BACK OFF, or else!

    Never be polite to those who would harm you, or harm those whom you love.

    @Azilda, I do know you are attempting to give me a gentle nudge, and it is not lost on me; and, by way of having just now returned the favor, I do want to believe that you as well may come away with a morsel for thought. I like you :-)

    And, now, I must concentrate on responding to @Katie Katherina Fabik.

    P.S.: @Azilda, you know, as far as this particular conversation, here at TDF, is concerned, homosexuality is of no intrinsic concern to me, at all. It is the wholesale slaughter of gays(and the beatings of women) that is of concern to me.

    You know how it goes with links, here. You've got to wait 24hrs, or longer, so I am going to give you key words to Google, so that you can get to a link at YouTube that I would be very grateful if you would please watch. Immediately following this post, I will also post the actual link, just in case Googling doesn't work. The key words to Google, 'quotes' included(cut'n'paste to Google, if you like), are:

    "Real execution :(( Stop The Gay Crime , Iran!! :(("

    Actual link will follow this post.

    Thanks(and thanks :-).

  • http://www.topdocumentaryfilms.com Epicurus

    what does it matter if he is gay?

  • Achems_Razor

    What? are you homophobic? And politically "incorrect"?

  • remon12

    if anybody live in an islamic country he will hate himself as these people are like viruses and bacteria enter any society , growth then change the society to the way they want and everybody after will suffer from their thinking and believes . they will kille every body who dont believe in their religion .

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ metalmaji
    Yes. I am as queer as a three dollar bill.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Katie Katherina Fabik

    Actually, you may have taken what I wrote in a way not intended, and quite understandably so, especially if having just glanced over the posting, as I often do with others.

    The point of my comment was not that I wished to hear such sorrow from Muslims, though, of course, that would be nice. The point is that Muslims, quite apart from whom they speak with, do not seem overly concerned about the Muslim mass slaughter of people like me. Muslims do not express grief over kids who loved each other and were then hanged by the neck until dead while their families had to watch, not because Muslims are unfeeling, of course not, but because Muslims appear to accept execution for homosexual activity as normal. You express no grief because, well, that's the law. People should know better. Just like here in the United States, when someone gets a speeding ticket. Sure it's a pain. But you broke the speed limit. What do you expect?

    The only Muslims who might see it another way are Muslims who have a gay son or a lesbian daughter. But, of course, the vast majority of people, all over the world, are NOT gay, so these families are rare. Sure Muslims feel sorry for the family in the same way they might feel sorry for a family with a child who is born with some birth defect, or neurological disorder, such as downs syndrome, for example. Thank goodness Allah does tell Muslims to execute people for being born retarded.

    But that's different, you say. People can't help if they are born that way, and anyhow(and this is the all important aspect of the situation) downs syndrome is not in any way associated with sex. If it were, oops! you'd be hanging retarded kids.

    Did you know that in some primitive tribes in New Guinea, people were put to death for being left-handed? Hard to believe, but it is true.

    Just listen, if you would, to a few comments from some of your fellow Muslims:

    metalmaji:
    "Nowadays also in different parts on the country women get their puberty in different ages. It depends on area, climate, food they eat. etc. There is no fixed age for puberty. When Mohamed and 9 year old girl got married by their own free will what is your problem? You should have read Marriage in Islam. You listen to the s*** from the Media, and come here and talk as if you know everything about Islam.... I'll tell you one thing about Christians. They don't know who they are worshiping, whether Jesus or God (father). They keep saying God is one."

    Are you going to tell me that metalmaji is not a real Muslim?

    Here's another,
    Muhammad Abdullah:
    "When was Muhammad (peace be upon him) alive?

    "Historically, 1400+ years ago. Now 1400 years ago is a lot different from now. During the Prophet hood of Muhammad (PBUH) he had a lot of enemies who tried to defame him and spread slander. But those enemies never ever talked about his marriage to that particular wife. Why?

    "Because 1400 years ago, in Arabia it was a common practice for men to marry very young girls. It was not considered wrong.

    "Also as a matter of fact, she prior to being his wife was engaged to someone else before the Prophet (PBUH) married her.

    "And if the Prophet (PBUH) only wanted a young girl, why is it that all his other wives were older. Some in their 50s, some in their 30s and some a bit younger?

    "To end with, you're using what you feel is right to judge someone else’s culture and norms based on your culture. That’s assuming you are right. That 18 years old is proper and anything else is improper. Who says?"

    It seems that something that was normal 1400 years ago should not be caste against a modern setting. I couldn't agree more. But this same man does not seem to feel the same way about gays. No matter how old the law, it still applies in 2011(but we make an exception for Mohamed). For Mohamed it was ok, but not now. Killing gays was ok 1400 years ago and is STILL ok in June, 2011. Remarkable!

    Is Muhammad Abdullah crazy? No. And he has the Suwar to back him up!

    Of course, the Bible also has all of this nonsense, but nowhere is it allowed to actually be practiced, regardless what people believe. A civilized culture simply does not burn people at the stake, nor drown them nor quarter then nor crush them to death nor stone them to death, nor chop off a finger, arm,... (I can't go on).

    Civilized people simply do not permit governance of that sort. The only place I know of which even approaches something at that low level is Uganda, with 90% illiteracy and poverty and disease so all pervasive they barely have names for it.

    If Jews are told by God to stone a women to death for adultery, Jews tell their God to go to hell. Ultra-Orthodox Jew WOULD do it, but no government would permit it and, if someone really were to do it, anyway, they'd be arrested and sentenced to life in prison for first degree murder, even in Israel. But in Iran, these sorts of practices are common place and carried out BY THE STATE, no less.

    AND HERE COMES THE KICKER:

    Muslims throughout the Muslim world do NOT go to the streets in the millions to protest such barbarism. No. They sit at home, or demonstrate that they are being discriminated against. They have time to stand up for their rights but no time to let their voices be heard, loud and clear, that they CONDEMN what goes on inside Islamic Republics. Instead, silence. What you are hearing from me now is not hatred. What you are hearing from me now are FACTS.

    If I saw you moderate Muslims, seriously, and continuously, mounting larger and larger protests against the excesses of Islam and were to invite your Infidel friends to join in and help, I would, of course, see everything completely differently. But it's all just a dream, and you know it.

    You talk about respect.

    I have had to earn any and all respect that has ever been ceded to me. Everybody must EARN the respect society awards them. Religion is no different. Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, you name it, all must EARN respect. Respect is not for free. If Islam really were the religion of peace, you would not need to tell anyone. It would speak for itself. It doesn't. Just read this:

    Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those who say this are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter their armies.”
    ~ The Ayatollah Khomeini

    The great grand son of Vinvent van Gough, Theo van Gogh, was murdered by Mohammed Bouyeri, a 27 year old Muslim man, and intelligent, mild mannered person, because Theo, a film maker, made a film about the abuse of Muslim women. Theo was not murdered in Iran. Theo was murdered in his home country, Holland.
    For sources and documentation, Google the key words:
    BBC Life of slain Dutch film-maker

    An isolated incident? I wish it were.

    Somali-born Dutch member of parliament, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, had to flee her homeland of Somalia to avoid being killed by the Somali government for apostasy when she wanted to leave Islam and her husband.

    One hundred people world-wide were murdered by Muslims in protest of cartoons of Mohammed made by Danish artists, in THEIR homeland of Denmark!
    Watch the documentary:
    Bloody Cartoons
    #7 in the Religion section

    I asked, Bilal Bruce Morpeth:
    "...I would like to know from you whether you are saddened over the 4000 Muslim state sponsored executions of gay men in Iran since 1979."

    Bilal Bruce Morpeth answered:
    "Everything I have said I believe, Removing open adultery, pornography and deviance like homosexuality from the society are a mercy on the innocent."

    I do not know whether you think I was SHOUTING rudely and disrespectfully at your Muslim brother, Bruce, but regardless, he would like to see me dead because "...removing...deviance like homosexuality[like me] from the society are a mercy on the innocent."

    Bilal Bruce Morpeth could not have made it more clear that he approves of the state sponsored wholesale slaughter of people like me, and Bruce is not alone.

    And then I hear from YOU:
    "Please, learn to show a little more respect and you'll be surprised to see people repaying it to you."

    I do not know whether to laugh or to cry.

    Another point:
    ALL Muslims who have addressed this issue say flat out that homosexuality is chosen. Can you believe that someone would to choose to be homosexual in a place like Iran? REPEAT: Can you believe that someone would to choose to be homosexual in a place like Iran?!

    But they claim it anyway. They have to. It is crazy, but they have to, because to admit that people are born that way would mean that Allah was not only NOT all merciful but was outright cruel. So rather than embrace commonsense, Muslims blindly latch onto FAITH, and kill.

    Now just listen to this:
    metalmaji says,
    "Islam is not doing anything to anyone who is doing the right thing."

    First grade logic tells anyone who can think that the above statement can also be read to mean:

    'Islam IS doing EVERYTHING to EVERYONE who is NOT doing the right thing'

    Wow, I feel better already.

    Anyhow, your Muslim brother, metalmaji, wants me dead.

    Salaam.

    And just listen to this doozy. Now we have two Muslims fighting with each other. Should I learn respect for Muslims from this example?

    metalmaji:
    "If you're talking about IRAN (Shia). I'd say they are not true Muslim.. Muslims don't worship any man or worship through a man. Shia worship through their Imams. That's not Islam.... You know, every 32 second a rape takes place in US.... And the bible also says death penalty for having sex with same sex."

    jacob6185:
    "I think that your understanding of shia islam is borne out of sheer ignorance, i used to be a christian but now i follow the true islam the quran and the teachings of our prophet pbuh. Whilst you my ignorant friend follow the twisted teachings of the murdering scum liar coward yazid and his progeny who rule arabia for now. They are spending billions and billions of dollars into propaganda trying to spread their version of islam and fabricated history. I wouldn't go as far and say that your not a true muslim but your definately a hypocrite."

    Here's another hardball, after having finished watching the documentary:

    Bilal Bruce Morpeth:
    "did you even watch this documentary, you don't belong here."

    Should I use this as the model of courtesy you so ardently urge me to adopt?

    Or what about this,
    (It is a VERY long post, so I quote here only the opening paragraph)
    Bilal Bruce Morpeth:
    "Stoning someone to death for Adultery is a mercy to a believer and an expiation of their sins. Do realize that in order to stone someone they need to of either testified against themselves 4 times or there is 4 trustworthy witnesses who see the act of penetration. All of this has to go through Islamic courts."

    I really have to go to bed. And anyhow, this is going nowhere.

    You guys want me dead and want me to respect you and want me to be polite all the way to the hangman's noose.

    Maybe your next post should be an open letter to your Muslim brethren telling them whatever Muslims say to each other. Or, maybe, because you are a woman, you might get a hundred lashes for talking back to a REAL Muslim, a Muslim MAN.

    Repeat from YOU:
    "Please, learn to show a little more respect and you'll be surprised to see people repaying it to you."

    Well, I live in the United States, and you can't touch me, here!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1313520708 Katie Katherina Fabik

    0zyxcba1

    You are seriously unbelievable.... there are 1.5 billions of people in the world who embraced islam... and even more keep converting everyday.... so you call all of them homosexual-haters, women-beaters, terrorists and I don't know what else.
    "Please, learn to show a little more respect and you'll be surprised to see people repaying it to you."
    The reason why I said it was that I had read your own comment to my post which was full of insults to my religion, or to any religion and as long as you don't learn to show any respect I or the others have no reason to repay it to you.
    You openly state that you are a homosexual. Did you see me or any muslim outwardly insulting you here ? Like you keep insulting islam and muslims? I am sorry I haven't read the whole discussion because it just makes my blood boil to see people talk so stubbornly about my religion.
    "Maybe your next post should be an open letter to your Muslim brethren telling them whatever Muslims say to each other. Or, maybe, because you are a woman, you might get a hundred lashes for talking back to a REAL Muslim, a Muslim MAN."
    Now this seriously offended me. Why should I meddle anyway into the discussion they have between themselves? Don't talk as long as you don't know what you are talking about....
    "Muslims don't worship any man or worship through a man. Shia worship through their Imams."
    One thing is right- islam is about submitting to and worshipping one God and unlike it is in the Catholic Church a muslim doesn't need any other man to be connected with God. That is the only thing I can say and I won't pretend to know the situation in Iran because I don't...
    “Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those who say this are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter their armies.”
    There is a wide spread propaganda claiming that islam is violent so I am not surprised to see inproper translations of Quran in the world or verses being taken out of context without understanding them. I'd like to see in which sura does such a phrase appear and as long as I don't I choose to ignore it.
    If you truly knew Quran you'd know that there are very few verses that don't apply to one concrete situation and most of these phrases that you apply to jihad (which is inproperly translated as the holy war) are also only referring to the battles muslims were experiencing during the days when islam was being spread... It's all about defending their own country and their families when being attacked which I can understand... But of course I don't expect to hear anything else from an American.. you'll rather commemorate the deaths of 6000 American soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq (who knew what they were going into and knew that they could die) than the 10 thousands of deaths of innocent families, women and children whose only fault was that they lived in a country rich for oil....
    So please be so kind and don't lecture me about your American double standards... As long as you are okay with the American policy you have no slightest right to judge muslims.
    Please show me the comment in which any of my muslim brothers told you they wanted you dead as you assume. And for the last time STOP PRESSUMING THAT YOU KNOW WHAT I FEEL.
    As for the protests, take a look at the revolution in Egypt only and you will see.... As long as you understand little of the subject that you comment be so kind and keep it to yourself and don't spread it all over the internet.
    You show little respect and still haven't given me much reason to feel otherwise so don't expect respect from others....
    I could go on and on in my comment but I am sorry right now I am a little heated up for the way you just keep on stubbornly insulting me or my muslims brothers or sisters.... Change your tone
    And anyways why do I feel for your comments that I or my brothers or sisters in islam should feel guilty for the actions of others??? If muslims can talk to christians and jews and atheists and let's say Americans normally though they don't like their actions why can't you do the same? Why should it be hard for a person to convert to islam?? Why should I feel like I have to say sorry because you seem to expect it from me? How is it my fault or the fault of other muslims??? If American government pays millions to dictators in the Middle East in order to keep them under control and turns a blind eye to the torturing that is going on in those countries and if it can kill innocent people in Iraq and Afghanistan or any country that doesn't cope with their policy and muslims still talk to Americans normally without blaming them for the faults of their government, why is it okay for you to insult 1.5 billions of muslims for things they have nothing to do with ??? That is as long as we assume that what you say is true because the media is a very powerful tool... Why isn't it comparable for you??

  • Guest

    @Ozyxcba1

    "Times of great sorrow have the potential to be times of great transformation. But in order for transformation to happen we must go deep, to the very roots of our pain, and experience it as it is , without blame or self-pity."

    Of the infinite subjects of being, we always chose to be too vocal in the ones that could better our own life if only someone else was to change their ways.

    In fact we would make a huge difference if we were half that vocal on the things we can change about ourself for the bettering of all.

    I am out of here with a bow.
    Have your fight.
    az

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1313520708 Katie Katherina Fabik

    Yes, sure.... because the western society is all about peace, respect and love. Shame that none of you proves that...

  • 0zyxcba1

    @Azilda

    "Times of great sorrow have the potential to be times of great transformation. But in order for transformation to happen we must go deep, to the very roots of our pain, and experience it as it is, without blame or self-pity."

    Azilda, I couldn't help but notice the quotation marks. Whom are you quoting, if I might ask? In any case, I do not think you should have directed your quote at me.

    While I am deeply saddened, and extremely angry, over the state-sponsored, wholesale slaughter, under Islamic Law, of gay youths in the Islamic Republic of Iran, it is not I who must bear the suffering; it is not I who must live in fear for my life.

    I think, Azilda, you may have missed the point entirely.

    Azilda, this is not about me.
    This has never been about me.

    I am not important.
    I have never been important.

    This is about kicking a bit of Muslim butt to wake them up to what is going on in THEIR world, not mine. It is for this reason that I believe your advice would be more appropriately directed at families who now have a photograph for a son.

    Perhaps, Azilda, you would care to stand face-to-face with the mother of a photograph and, while looking her straight in the eye, preach to her about self-pity and blame and about experiencing her pain, "as it is," at its very roots, deep inside herself, that she might seek great transformation blossoming forth from all the potential to be found in this, her time of great sorrow.

    I'll pay for the plane ticket.

    Tell this mother of a photograph not to be too vocal, but to weep softly, lest she make too much noise, and that, rather than expecting the Islamic Republic of Iran to change its ways, this mother of a photograph would make a "huge difference" in seeking ways to change hers, for the betterment of all.

    Azilda, I don't know where you think you are going, but when you get there, reflect upon the fact that this is not my fight, rather it is the fight of over 1.5 billion Muslims who today seem content to leave matters as they are, perhaps until tomorrow.

    I don't know why, Azilda, but somehow I feel you owe that mother of a photograph an apology.

    Salaam.

  • 0zyxcba1

    Katie Katherina Fabik

    When America committed yet another atrocity against the Muslim world by commencing with its illegal bombardment and subsequent invasion of the sovereign nation of Iraq, demonstrations ensued INSTANTLY!!!

    Wikipedia states that:

    "According to BBC News, between six and ten million people took part in protests in up to sixty countries over the weekend of the 15th and 16th; other estimates range from eight million to thirty million.

    "Some of the largest protests took place in Europe. The protest in Rome involved around three million people, and is listed in the 2004 Guinness Book of World Records as the largest anti-war rally in history. Madrid hosted the second largest rally with more than 1½ million people protesting the invasion of Iraq, whereas Mainland China was the only major region not to see any protests, but small demonstrations attended mainly by foreign students were seen later."

    That is just some of the protests in the series of protests against just one of the many United States atrocities committed against Muslims(just ONE series!). Other regions and countries in which protests occurred were(according to Wikipedia) in:
    Alpine countries
    Benelux
    Bosnia and Herzegovina
    Croatia
    Cyprus
    Czech Republic
    France
    Germany
    Greece
    Hungary
    Ireland
    Italy
    Malta
    Poland
    Portugal
    Russia
    Scandinavia
    Serbia
    Spain
    Turkey
    Ukraine
    United Kingdom:
    England(London)
    Scotland
    Wales
    Northern Ireland

    Americas:
    Canada
    United States(New York and other U.S. cities)
    Mexico
    South America(wherever America could not kill demonstrators!)

    Asia
    Middle East

    Africa:
    South Africa
    Tunisia

    Oceania:
    Fiji
    Australia
    New Zealand

    EVEN IN ANTARCTICA!!!

    Since 1979, 4000 gay men have been executed in the Islamic Republic of Iran for being gay.

    When will you begin to make your voices heard?
    Or maybe you just don't care.

    Where are you?
    We can't hear you.
    ________________

  • 0zyxcba1

    Katie Katherina Fabik

    ".... there are 1.5 billions of people in the world who embraced Islam...so you call all of them homosexual-haters, women-beaters, terrorists and I don't know what else."

    Actually, I don't think I mentioned 'terrorist'.

    And the only significant of generalizations I have made is that all 1.5 billion of you are silent. And you are! I did also remark that, so it would seem, due to this GRAND SILENCE, Muslims are not overly concerned about the excesses of Islam, judging from your lack of action. The excesses of Islam do not seem to concern Muslims enough for you to mount HUGE demonstrations in protest. That generalization I do make. And I stand by it!

    What I am about to say is NOT a generalization, as it applies only to you and ALL of the other Muslims I have interacted with during the last week or so, here at TDF.

    Every time I make a criticism, no matter what it is, all of you(ALL of you!) change the subject! For example, your posting, the one I am responding to right now, changes the subject from Islamic law, as practiced in the Islamic Republic of Iran, together with disturbing events which occurred world-wide in response to Danish cartoons and the murder of Theo by an Islamic fundamentalist, for religious reasons, to the subject of my alleged generalizations about 1.5 billion Muslims. You slip from 'Islam' to the lie that I am generalizing about Muslims. Criticizing YOU is hardly criticizing all Muslims. Holding up examples of Islamic excesses is NOT criticizing all Muslims. But what is your opening salve? This is your opening salve:

    ".... there are 1.5 billions of people in the world who embraced Islam...so you call all of them homosexual-haters, women-beaters, terrorists and I don't know what else."
    "...you call all of them homosexual-haters..."
    "...you call all of them...women-beaters..."
    "...you call all of them...terrorists..."
    "...you call all of them...I don't know what else..."

    You lie! What I have done, and what I will continue to do(until things change), is to rage against Islam's uncivilized nature. And I will never stop! unless, and until, Islam changes. But you PRETEND that I was speaking about the individual feelings of 1.5 billion Muslims!

    What a crock.

    And I encounter this 'crock' consistently, and continually. I criticize the beatings of women under Islamic Law, and my opponent instantly retorts with something like the number of rapes in America. Rape in America is illegal. In Iran, beating a woman in public for adultery is not illegal. It's the law!

    And the law is barbaric!

    I have no objection, whatsoever, to discussing crime in the United States, none at all. But United States crime has nothing to do with 100 lashes in Iran under the auspices of Islamic Law. Nothing! And to try to equivocate the two is a cheap trick of rhetoric(and it doesn't even work!). Any child sees through it. You and I have NOT been discussing Muslims at large. I(if not you) have been discussing Islam! A Muslim is a person. Islam is not!

    Islam has not earned one scrap of respect from me and I have told you some of the reasons why. I stand by those reasons. In my opinion, you have not even tried to counter a single argument of mine. Instead, you always switch the subject.
    The topic under discussion is NOT Judaism.
    The topic under discussion is NOT Christianity.
    The topic under discussion is NOT American imperialism.
    The topic under discussion is NOT American crime.
    The topic under discussion is ISLAM.
    And if you stick the topic under discussion, you will loose, every time!

    In one form or another, all of the Muslim postings at this site try at using the same cheap trick.

    My accusation:
    Islamic law has resulted in the execution of 4000 gays since 1979.

    Response:
    - What about Christianity? or The Bible says it, too or Aren't you jut as bad? or Mohamed, PBUH or Allah is great!

    What has any of that got to do with:
    Islamic law has resulted in the execution of 4000 gays since 1979.

    Why do Muslim at this site engage in such childish behavior?
    No one falls for it. It just makes you look like a bunch of children.
    I know just what you're thinking(and, no, I am not a mind reader). You are thinking:

    Well, you do it, too!

    Do you not see? Even if it were true, it would still have nothing to do with the initial accusation, that Muslims at this site engage in equivocation. They do, quite independently of whether I do it ,too, or whether I don't do it, too. The two are unrelated, logically. It is almost as though Muslims at this website have memorized everything and forgotten how to debate.

    And, now, for the first time, ever, am going to reveal to you some of my private generalizations about Muslims in my neighborhood, where I live. You're all ears, aren't you? That is because I have NOT told you before what kinds of generalization I indulge in, though you started out saying that I had!

    Here goes:
    I live in a neighborhood which I share with several Muslim families. I have no Muslim friends. I do, however, have many Muslim acquaintances. To a person, my Muslim neighbors are decent, friendly people and, judging from the restaurants in our neighborhood, the best cooks this side of the moon!

    Islam is a different matter, altogether.

    And that's it. That is the only generalization I have. And, by the way, I have spent time in Morocco, Lebanon, Turkey, and the Turkish side of Cyprus. Everyone I came in contact with was, at the very least, civil, and most were friendly and happy, and so was I.

    But every time, here at TDF, when I focus on negative aspects of Islam, the Muslims at this site make excuses; point a finger at other Muslims, at Shiites; question aren't you just as bad; and, worst of all, the Muslims here at TDF will even go so far as to deny the undeniable; to defend the indefensible.

    What Muslims here in this discussion forum NEVER do is to confide the following:

    Yes, I agree. Islam is a big problem.

    What no Muslim here at TDF has ever expressed to me is grief:
    grief over what was done to Salman Rushdie;
    grief over the atrocities being committed against other Muslim apostates;
    grief over the atrocities being committed against women in general and against lesbians in particular;
    grief over the atrocities being committed against gay men;
    grief over the atrocities being committed against those citizens of Northern Europe who dare to exercise their rights of free speech; and, finally:
    grief over the FACT that Muslims everywhere are NOT out in the millions, peacefully protesting against these and other excesses of Islam.

    Instead of grief, I get: "And they blame everything on Muslims."

    This is the problem we, all of us, have with Islam and with the deafening silence of Muslims throughout the Muslim world.

    If you guys, you decent, good people, do not act, and act quickly, the extreme elements within Islam will steal your faith from you. It's so bad already that whole nations have been turned into theocratic concentration camps.

    And don't tell me it's none of my business!
    Human rights is every human's business.

    Oh, and before I forget:
    The uprisings in Egypt and Libya neither had, nor have, anything, whatsoever, to do with either Islam, or the executioning of gay youths in the Islamic Republic of Iran. Both are uprisings to topple corrupt governments.

    And while I am at it, during the Egyptian uprising, a poll was taken by American pollsters working for Gallop, an American organization which specializes in demographics. There were only two questions on the survey:
    1) Do you believe in freedom of religion?
    2) Are you in favor of execution of overt apostates?
    Over 90% of Egyptians believe in freedom of religion.
    Sixty-eight percent believe in the death penalty for overt apostasy!

    The New York times Sunday editorial posited that the discrepancy was due to a misunderstanding:
    ~ Every human wants freedom.
    ~ But not all humans agree on what constitutes freedom.

    In Muslim countries, where every facet of daily life is dominated by Islamic tradition and culture, the idea of any other 'true' religion is impossible. And because the Koran is both a constitution, of sorts, as well as a spiritual guide, the average Egyptian hearing the first question, in his own language, hears something more akin to:

    Do you believe in freedom for Islam.

    In the mind of the average Egyptian Islam = religion.
    There can be no other 'real' religion. So, naturally, almost everybody says YES.

    We, here in the West, understand that question to be about freedom amongst a plurality of religions, wherein lies the misunderstanding.

    So now, it all makes sense:
    ~ Islam has freedom to be Islam.
    ~ And vocal apostates should be executed.

    In Libya, Muammar Gaddafi has so far killed more than 8,000 peaceful protesters. But Libyan protesters are protesting against Gaddafi, not against the executions of homosexuals in the Islamic Republic of Iran. Same in Syria. Unrest there is purely political in nature and has nothing whatever to do with the excesses of Islam. So I really cannot understand why you would mention the Egyptian uprising as though the Egyptians were protesting against Islamic atrocities.

    Yet another failed attempt at slight-of-hand.

    "...as you don't learn to show any respect I or the others have no reason to repay it to you."

    So very true! Quid pro quo! And until Islam EARNS my respect, it's not getting any. Under this circumstance, it would be foolish of me to expect any respect for me from you. And I'm no fool.

    "You openly state that you are a homosexual." Did you see me or any Muslim outwardly insulting you here ?"

    "outwardly?" What about inwardly?

    Until now, it hadn't really crossed my mind. You see, where I live, people getting on with their lives, openly, is normal. But now that you mention it:

    YES.

    In fact, I included it in my last post to you. Obviously you did not read it. It was far more than a mere insult. The implication was that I had no right to live!

    QUOTE:
    I asked, Bilal Bruce Morpeth:
    "...I would like to know from you whether you are saddened over the 4000 Muslim state sponsored executions of gay men in Iran since 1979."

    Bilal Bruce Morpeth answered:
    "Everything I have said I believe, Removing open adultery, pornography and deviance like homosexuality from the society are a mercy on the innocent."

    I do not know whether you think I was SHOUTING rudely and disrespectfully at your Muslim brother, Bruce, but regardless, he would like to see me dead because "...removing...deviance like homosexuality[like me] from the society are a mercy on the innocent."

    Bilal Bruce Morpeth could not have made it more clear that he approves of the state sponsored wholesale slaughter of people like me, and Bruce is not alone.

    And then I hear from YOU:
    "Please, learn to show a little more respect and you'll be surprised to see people repaying it to you."
    END QUOTE.

    Oh, and before I forget, I openly stated that I am homosexual. Would you kindly return the gesture and openly state for me your sexual orientation? Quid pro quo!

    "Like you keep insulting Islam and muslims? I am sorry I haven't read the whole discussion because it just makes my blood boil to see people talk so stubbornly about my religion"

    I think your blood will turn to steam when you see some of the remarks in my last post quoted from Muslims, that you have so conveniently overlooked. For example:

    “Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those who say this are witless. Islam says: 'Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter their armies'.”
    ~ The Ayatollah Khomeini

    (You claim: mistranslation -- I'll come back to this later!)

    Here's another by Bilal Bruce Morpeth, a real gem!
    (After I read this one, I vomited):
    "Stoning someone to death for Adultery is a mercy to a believer and an expiation of their sins. Do realize that in order to stone someone they need to of either testified against themselves 4 times or there is 4 trustworthy witnesses who see the act of penetration. All of this has to go through Islamic courts."

    'Maybe your next post should be an open letter to your Muslim brethren telling them whatever Muslims say to each other. Or, maybe, because you are a woman, you might get a hundred lashes for talking back to a REAL Muslim, a Muslim MAN.'

    "Now this seriously offended me. Why should I meddle anyway into the discussion they have between themselves? Don't talk as long as you don't know what you are talking about...."

    I can certainly understand your having been offended. In addition, I would like to point out that you may have misunderstood what I was saying. If you did misunderstand, it is wholly excusable, since the sarcasm of my statement would be enough to distract anyone.

    I will restate the 'problem paragraph'(sans sarcasm) and try to explain.

    You see, Katie, the PRECEDING line to what you displayed was from me, and said:

    'You guys want me dead and want me to respect you and want me to be polite all the way to the hangman's noose.'

    This statement of mine was in reference to Bilal Bruce Morpeth's call for my 'removal':

    "Everything I have said I believe, Removing open adultery, pornography and deviance like homosexuality from the society are a mercy on the innocent." ~ Bilal Bruce Morpeth

    To you I was saying, instead of writing to me, maybe you should be writing an open letter to Bruce and his friends, and to Muslim men, in general, telling them to... to... what?

    That's the whole problem.

    Bruce was only quoting Allah. How does a female Muslim tell male Muslims that they shouldn't quote Allah? From where I sit, it seems that this could prove awkward for you, which is why I said "...telling them[Bilal Bruce Morpeth and friends] whatever Muslims say to each other."

    I do not know how one female Muslim tells a bunch of male Muslims that they shouldn't quote Allah because Allah is a homophobe
    (I mean how does one do that?), hence the implication that you(Katie Katherina Fabik) work it out however you guys talk about these sorts of 'delicate' matters.

    In short, I was saying: Heh, these guys are calling for my death, maybe you could write to them, instead of to me! I hope this clarifies the matter without making it worse.

    Now, onwards and forwards:

    "Muslims don't worship any man or worship through a man. Shia worship through their Imams."

    This is just one line in a paragraph from one Muslim guy glued in battle to another Muslim guy(Sunni-Shiite) who was calling the first guy "scum."

    Then you continue: "...unlike it is in the Catholic Church a muslim doesn't need any other man to be connected with God."
    SO WHAT?!

    I was raised Catholic(12 years Catholic education, and one year studying to become a priest). Boy, did I learn a thing or two:
    a) there are no gods;
    b) there is no allah, no god;
    c) I AM FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    d) religion sux!
    Not just the Catholic Church 'sux'. ALL religions sux! ALL religion is poison and causes nothing but fear anguish and suffering. Religion is fake. ALL religion is fake, including yours! If you believe I am wrong, PROVE IT.

    "There is a wide spread propaganda claiming that Islam is violent so I am not surprised to see inproper translations of Quran in the world or verses being taken out of context without understanding them. I'd like to see in which sura does such a phrase appear and as long as I don't I choose to ignore it."

    "...choose to ignore it." What a convenient way to dodge an issue. Just, ignore it! WOW, how intelligent. How clever! Yeah, just "...ignore it." Why didn't I think of that?!

    Don't tell me that the Ayatollah Khomeini didn't know what he was saying, or that something got lost in the translation.

    Khomeini wasn't just any old Ayatollah. He had toppled the Peacock Thrown. He kicked the Shaw out and held 50 US citizens hostage. The Ayatollah Khomeini was an international leader on top of the heap. He had access to EVERYTHING: the finest translators, the FINEST.

    The Ayatollah Khomeini knew perfectly well who his target audience was: America! Most Iranians probably didn't even know he had said it. He was talking directly to President Carter, and the Ayatollah Khomeini was making himself PERFECTLY clear!

    No! No! No. You are not getting away with this one.
    That translation was CORRECT!

    By the way, your reaction is one I have encountered before. Whenever I have confronted a Muslim with something out of which it is impossible to wiggle, she or he plays the 'lost in translation' card. Odd, that, nothing else gets 'lost'.

    "... you'd rather commemorate the deaths of 6000 American soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq..."

    There you go again, changing the subject. The subject here is an embarrassing(for you) Ayatollah Khomeini quote, and suddenly we're talking about "you'd rather commemorate the deaths of 6000 American soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq,...". All very true. But all having nothing whatever to do with the Khomeini quote! Changing the subject again.

    Okay, Katie, you wanna change the subject? Let's go!

    Katie, I will have you know that you are preaching to the choir. You have never gone into the streets to protest what is going on in Iran; but, even though Saddam Hussein was a pig, he was nowhere near as bad as Bush and Cheney(and, anyhow, it was America that put Saddam there in the first place!), so what did a WHOLE LOT OF AMERICANS do? I'll tell you what a WHOLE LOT OF AMERICANS did:

    The instant my country announced its intentions, that very same day, I joined 50,000 others in my city. And we protested. 50,000! And my city only has a population of 750,000.

    And it wasn't easy, either. I am an old man, and sometimes I have to go to the bathroom unexpectedly, so I brought a plastic urinal with me. We were out there morning till night, 6 full hours! And then the next day, too.

    And this happened all over America!

    But because Allah is a homophobe, you guys won't demonstrate in protest against the wholesale slaughter of young gay men under Islamic Law in an Islamic Republic. No. No. No. That would be questioning the word of Allah. Hahahahahahaha!!!!
    Like I said:

    ALL religion is poison and causes nothing but fear anguish and suffering.

    You don't go to the streets to protect defenseless young men from Islam, but we(gay, or straight) go to the streets for you. We didn't talk about it, we DID it, and we did right away! Instantly!!!

    And it wasn't just America, either.
    The whole Western world stood up against America, for YOU!

    Take care in changing the subject, next time, Katie.

    [.......... I'm taking a break..........]

    see below:

  • Guest

    I owe compassion to anyone who was hurt by the arrogance and persecution done by others. I owe apologies when by mistake i was the arrogant and persecutor.
    My approach is different than yours.
    I have read most of your post and have come to the conclusion that your FIGHT is needed for some, you included, otherwise you would use a different strategy.
    I ended my message "I am out of here with a bow" and i meant it.
    And i will take your ticket anyday...i have been to Iran, a lot can be done on the field, that is the country where i have met the most women. I'll even take you along if you can backpack it rough.
    az

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Azilda

    @Azilda,it's okay, sweetheart;-).I really would like to know whether you watched the YouTube clip for which I gave you the Google.Would you please watch it for me so you can know.It only lasts a couple of three minutes and it's not at all what you might imagine from the title. I know you understand, even though I know you don't :'(
    luv
    cut'n'paste(quotes included):
    "Real execution :(( Stop The Gay Crime , Iran!! :(("

  • Guest

    @Ozyxcba1
    I have watched the suggested clip, it is a horrible happening. Of course i do not understand the ill treatment of homosexuals in the world any more than i understand war fields, true hunger, spouse physical abuse, children beatings ect...although i could see it everyday if i watched the world in all it's unfolding on the tube.
    I care for you and what you stand for even though i don't know you. I can feel you want peace as much as i do, as much as most of us do. But how do we start the first step? Is it by accusing each other of our worse actions? I do not have the answer to this, because that answer hasn't been found in the zillions of years we trail in our Be Hind.
    I can only go my way and allow you to go your way and hope that every one of us is shaping our own Dough Nut as best we can.

    it is human to accuse society
    we think we know the imprints of our actions
    although they get lost in our past
    they remain ahead of those
    who had to suffer them or enjoy them

    the world is full of inequality
    in all it's branches
    az

  • 0zyxcba1

    @Azilda, thank you for watching the clip. I just wanted you to understand that I am not a bad person; that I do what I can, as best I can, when confronted in such a cruel and heartbreaking manner.

    That you managed to get though the clip and actually watch it serves, for me, in some small measure, as 'closure'.

    Thank you, again, very much.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Bob-Duppy/100002449843354 Bob Duppy

    all religions have been trampled by the devils hooves

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000812235361 Ch Yekeen

    religion is a brain wash, and there is no need for any religion no matter how you want to paint it all up.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1313520708 Katie Katherina Fabik

    Okay so I'm here once again.
    I only want to tell you that for a while you made me pretty depressed and I truly started asking myself if I wasn't wrong. But I need to thank you now because it also made me launch into further studies about the topic and guess what, I found out I was NOT wrong and I am glad.

    “Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those who say this are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter their armies.”
    ~ The Ayatollah Khomeini
    And you know you have really poor knowledge of the true islam because if you did read the Quran as you claimed you'd know that the sura your idol Ayatollah Khomeini seemed to "quote" was quite incomplete. And if you cared enough to know the truth you'd find that it was very nicely taken out of the whole contex. But as none of you really cares what the sura is about a bunch of islam haters do a great job in taking parts of certain suras and turning them into an argument that islam is about violence. Just like the "perfect" site I once found that claimed that islam justified subjugation of women and so on and that would take a bunch of just perfect words of some hadiths (that mostly didn't say anything about the topic itself) and they served them well to prove that they were right and everyone else was wrong.
    Whatever. A devoted muslim knows what his religion is about and knows about the prejudice which doesn't stop him from practising his belief and his lifestyle...
    Oh and I forgot. I did make quite a bit of a research about the topic of homosexuality and the punishment for it according to shariia law.
    So I won't claim I understand the situation in Iran because I have never been there nor do I know anyone who has been there. But I know now what islam says about it and I am happy that I came upon you and your comments to me because it just ensured me that islam is really the truth.
    And I don't need to tell you anything else because I know that you are blinded and maybe it's not even your fault, so you wouldn't even care to listen to what I have to say. Nor would the other people that are just like you.

    You said:
    "The topic under discussion is ISLAM.
    And if you stick the topic under discussion, you will loose, every time!"

    So yes, you may have your big words. You may have thousand likes to your comments.But this is not a competition. That's all I have to tell you. So I may "lose" in your eyes. That doesn't have to bother me nor my brothers or sisters anymore. Because luckily there are still people who didn't let themselves get discouraged by the people like you in their search.

    Salam.

  • His Forever

    Oz: I submitted a clip too. check back later to see if it clears modderation. The "Religion of Peace" is the most brutal force on our planet. Without God to help us we would all be subjected to Sharia Law and you and I and Az I'm sure would meet similar fates, but for different reasons.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1313520708 Katie Katherina Fabik

    we could all make a bunch of clips about christians or other religions or we could perhaps take one entire nation and say its violent for the actions of a few.... it's really not that hard to modify things in a way to serve as a proof that what we claim is right... Take the statistics of rape in western countries?? Does the eastern world say that all men are rapists and pigs? I live in a "christian" country and could myself make a similar video. This is what the reality many times look like: A family attends the Sunday mass at the church the man gets drunk on his way back home and comes back and beats up his wife and kids just preventively and why? Because everybody turns a blind eye to it..
    Or let's take murders that happen everyday. For money, for alcohol, for drugs, for whatever... So I'd like to ask. If it's okay to judge 1.5 billions of muslims for the actions of a few of them why is it not okay to judge some other religion for the actions of a few?
    And yes your clips are just a propaganda. If you cared enough to study a little bit the religion that you have so much prejudice about you'd find the truth for yourself and you wouldn't need others to tell you what the truth is. Why did nobody ever ask a sheikh? Why did nobody ever ask a muslim? You write a muslim into google search and 90 percent of the results will be antiislamic. Whereas if you take the hadiths or the suras that they "quote" and cut them just at about the right place to sound very authentic, and search a little about them, you'll find out that in their original meaning they don't even refer to the thing you claim they do...
    Whatever.

  • http://www.facebook.com/supersandesh Sandesh Gawai

    As far as my understanding Islam was meant to be a good way of life taught by a saint called prophet-mohammad . But nowadays some ignorant people misunderstand the teachings and think that by killing or ( so they call sacrificing lives to the almighty ) they will glorify thier religion .. instead these ignorant violent people are digging the grave of their own religion . I want all the sensible people not to support violence in any form .. and wait for a change to happen in some decades .... !!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1313520708 Katie Katherina Fabik

    You said: "some ignorant people misunderstand the teachings and think that by killing or ( so they call sacrificing lives to the almighty ) they will glorify thier religion..."
    Actually in a way you are right, but you also need to understand that these words are a well meant political move.
    It's really not hard to twist words in order to make people believe that you are justified in doing what you're doing, if you know what I mean.
    But muslim terrorists don't do that in order to "spread islam" or anything, as people many times seem to believe. It's all political and has little to do with islam or its teaching. I suggest you should take a closer look at the events today, and especially take a closer look at islam and you may be surprised. Anyways best of luck and I'm glad you posted the comment. :)

  • William Call

    Any human who can say this is one twisted sick individual...."When Mohamed and 9 year old girl got married by their own free will what is your problem? You should have read Marriage in Islam. "......any one supporting the Quran is supporting this sick disgusting pedophilic idealogy......to be taught this in childhood is bad enough.....what is even worse is when americans convert to it....full and well knowing it is NOT nor has it ever been a religion of peace....

  • diamondintheruff69

    you're a first class American idiot.who knows nothing about Islam or the rest of the world for that matter.FOOL

  • William Call

    How typical......like you have some "mysterious" insight that others couldn't possibly have.....like only "you" can understand these texts....do not underestimate my intellect just because I find perversion and inhumane treatment of women and children deplorable....

  • salmanaslam

    if a man marry 9 year girl you question on it but when a man rapes a 9 year girl then u keep ur self silent why man

  • Shawn4004

    Islam is not a religion of peace. If Muhammad is, as Muslims believe, the perfect example of what a Muslim should be, then marrying a 9 year old is ok, as is killing all unbelievers (Muhammad himself beheaded thousands), and lying for any reason that would benefit you or Islam, unless telling the truth could do the same thing, is just fine. All passages in the Qur'an about living peaceably with the "people of the book" (Jews and Christians) were later made void by "new" revelations telling Muslims to kill them. Anyone who defends Islam is either ignorant of the true facts of their own religion or purposefully lying to spread and protect the image of Islam.

  • Amir1980

    I would agree with William Call here. Despite the wisdom of Quran and the extraordinary life of Prophet Mohammed who influenced millions, there is a big back dot on Mohammed's life, which no Muslim scholar has ever been to erase, which is, Marrying a child. Both Quran and Muslims claim that the Mohammed is the most perfect man ever created by GOD, sinless, etc.

    Some of my students have argued that it was fine to accept the kid as his wife because the father of the kid, Abu Bakr, had offered his daughter to Mohammed, who then accepted.

    Honestly, i am not a perfect man, but if my best friend offered me his daughter, i would only accept her as my daughter (adoption). Being a 32 year man, i would be shy to marry a 9 year old. However, Mohammed was 45 plus years old at that time.

    Dear Muslim brothers, do not be upset, you have been told (brain washed) since kids to accept this as an act of GOD. But really if you really try to see the real picture, this was an act of pedophilia.

    My apologies if i have caused any distress. I am a Muslim too but truth must be told.

  • avd420

    Thanks for being honest about your feelings and speaking freely.

    IMO that doesn't make you any less of a muslim. To the contrary actually.

  • avd420

    You see that OZ? According to her, it's YOUR fault none of them have the humanity to say they're sorry.

    You better smarten up boy and STOP being outraged by injustices in this world!

  • jellybean8309

    John tells us WHY they converted to islam......'Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.(1 Jn 2)

    They are now Anti-Christ!!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_M6F3RJVEWJ24QKMCHFNVK7ADVE Winston Smith

    The marriage of children.. even infants betrothed at birth or before they were born, was common the world over through out most of recorded history. Marriage was and often still is,a business. Looks, love and even age were not major considerations, if at all. It could be a matter of survival or a means to build alliances in the world of competing clans he was trying to unite in peace and justice for ALL. When you add up everything we know about Mo its clear that he was so progressive for that time and place as to be revolutionary.. and he was treated as such. But he and the message were popular for a reason.

    That he married a 9 year old Aisha doesnt mean he had sex with her before she was sexually mature. (you equate the two) The norm in such cases was to wait.. to not have sex before sexual maturity and menstruation. Looking at Mohammed's sensitivity and wisdom in other cases; including women's rights.. it becomes more than just likely that he was moral in this regard as well. And he had plenty of critics. Its also significant that having grown up in that household Aisha grew into be a modern, independent, and outspoken woman who ran a business.. one of the cool things about these people is that there's so much relatively contemporary information about them//more than any other religious figures.

    She is said to have been his favorite wife in later years. But many people dont know his first wife ('the older wealthy widow') died. And in the years they were together he never took another wife. And then there would be quite a few..but put it in the context of the time and place and its not strange. There was one 'revelation' of his that gave him permission to marry more wives than other men who are permitted only 4..heheh. But again, this was not so much about sex as the drive to extend his base in his belief that he was a 'prophet of the one true god'.. and doing something vital for the good of ALL of humanity.

    Its amazing ..how huge its become. It is good to understand why Islam has such broad appeal and Mohammed is almost universally admired (by those who look objectively) at his life.. and not all the crap subsequently and currently done in the name of Islam.

    Personally I believe all religions are an affront to humanity at this point. Religions are man-made. The universe is not. Science and the human experience are universal; religion is tribalism that purports to speak for god(! potentially a very dangerous thing)) There may be wisdom too but there is so much that is disturbing to modern sensibilities that we really have to pick and choose..and then that is subject to such broad interpretation. Lets just leave all this tribalism behind. all a mystery a Mystery and recognize that we are just a miniscule part of this massive whole...and not the image of god or the sole purpose of creation.
    (wow. pardon so long ^^

  • stillseeking

    I haven't watched this, but from the summary it seems to be an attempt to whitewash Islam. I converted to Islam and was a very devout follower for 17 years. The truth is, the "true Islam" is an imperialist, intolerant, misogynist, violent, mentally straight-jacketing cult. Does that mean there is nothing at all good in the teachings of Islam? Clearly, no. However, to rewrite history to provide a cover for the actions and teachings of Muhammad as though all the bad within Islam developed post-Muhammad is a LIE. A reading of the Quran, hadith, and the early histories written by Muslim scholars will attest to that for anyone with a mind open enough to face the truth.

  • Arsalan300

    Prophet Muhammad(saw) was a Noble Messenger of God. Muhammad(saw) lived in a society and culture that existed 1400 years ago, and we must not judge what he or others did based on the standards we have set today. It is wrong and foolish to do so.

    One of Muhammad's wives was Ayesha or Aisha. Depending on what sources are used her age at marriage is sometimes put at 6 and consummation at 9. However there are a number of facts which need to be factored in.
    1: Not all sources agree with Bukhari about Ayesha's age, Bukhari's Hadith were not collated until 300-odd years after Muhammad's death. Other sources give Ayesha's age as being 16 at marriage and 19 at consummation.
    2: Even if her age were 6 / 9, the custom of taking child brides was a part of Middle-Eastern culture. The Jews practised it as well as many of the other nations in the Middle-East and remember too that Mary of Nazareth's age was probably around the 12-14 mark.
    3: Customs and Traditions as well as laws were very different then from now. What is considered unacceptable now was not considered anything to comment about then.

  • a_no_n

    Marrying children was commonplace back then...even for christians.

    It's only been in the last 200 years where society has started shunning it.

    Also, Mohammed waited until she was 12.
    The reason they did this was to assure virginity, and as a result preserve bloodlines etc.

    Not a big difference you say? It was back then. you were lucky if you lived to see fourty back then! This is a time where a six year old could be a king, and a sixteen year old could lead an army into battle!

    If you want to call Mohammed a paedophile feel free...But by that logic you're also calling every other man and woman born before 1800 a paedophile too.

    You also ignore that Mohammeds first (and by all accounts most beloved) wife was older than him.

    I'm not sticking up for the practice, rather i'm putting it in perspective with the time!

    It bothers me that you're teaching students without researching any of your facts!

  • a_no_n

    see my reply to Amir1980.

  • a_no_n

    ffs...How many times am i going to have to repeat this.

    Marrying preteen girls was common...Even Europeans preferred their wives that young.
    It was the only surefire way to ensure virginity.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=646302952 Ariela Teodora

    If polygamy is useful in some cases, why wouldn't women ALSO be allowed to marry multiple men.

  • http://profiles.google.com/hunii.omer Hunii Omer

    this stage you'd think people would at least have the decency to respect all the religions regardless of differences in view. you just have to 'agree to disagree.' and if you want answers for such situations etc have the common sense to 'Ask' the question rather than criticize the religion and it's teachings.

    theres so much killing, abuse, war etc not because of religion and their differences but because our society and nation/s are and have been too busy pointing the finger at someone or something (religion etc) and so selfish as to wanting everything for themselves.

    Every teaching (verse) in the Bible, Qur'an or any spiritual scripture has a context. so before judging the teaching lets try and understand the context (actions occurring at the time, history, who those verses were directed to etc). all the verses have more than merely words. commentary are available for a-lot of the scriptures.

    i've realized someone asked something about homosexuals. well, think about it- is that even biologically compatible.

    Lets not criticize but accept and respect one another.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Debra-Carrigan-Khan/100000734251852 Debra Carrigan Khan

    that's an idiotic question, and I'll tell u why! Life is about reproduction and passing on your genes to the next generation. If women were allowed multiple husbands, then how can she for sure be accurate as to who the father of that child is? Without Jeremy Kyle or Maury Povich the men or the women would not be in the know. How many men would want to share their wife with loads of other men? Equally, women would not want to share their husbands with other women... most muslims do not accept polygamy. It is implemented into the religion as men are generally the protectors of women (don't retaliate with women are independent and all that crap, end of the day, women need men and vice versa) .... Where a man as a protector and a provider can (if he has the means to) look after his wives with money, security etc, how do you think a woman is going to be able to look after several men in one day? IF a woman had multiple husbands, the husband is naturally going to want to look after her children, but he would question the paternity of the children wouldn't he? How many men would honestly want to keep providing for a woman and the kids if he isnt even sure the kids are his? Very few I tell you. You should actually think about the reasons why polygamy for a man to have several wives is acceptable as opposed to a woman having multiple husbands. The fact you even ask the question to try and make a point only proves you are ignorant as you do not care to look at the other side of the story. Polygamy is not a religious thing, it's a HUMAN thing, don't be so quick to blame it on religion. Do you research. Learn the facts. Stop asking stupid questions.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=698111015 Nelson Bennett

    Even when Islam tries to smile and put on a friendly face, as it does in this piece of propaganda, it bares its teeth like some grotesque skeleton.
    Even when "moderate" Muslims distance themselves from extremists among them, we see that it is a religion that treats women as worth only one half of a man, suborns the execution of apostates and gays, and promotes hatred against Jews and Christians ("take not the Jews and Christians for your friends" (Koran, 5:51) and endorses polygamy.
    The film talks about Muslim women being able to vote and hold positions of authority. Can anyone name a female Imam or Mullah? Why are there no women clerics in Islam?
    I kept waiting for the film to get around to mentioning Aisha, but it didn't. She was one of Mohammed's dozen or so wives. She was six when he married her and nine when he consummated the marriage, according to the Hadith. A 12-year-old girl in Yemen recently died in childbirth because this barbaric practice of marrying girls even before puberty is still practised in some Islamic countries.
    Ever since the fatwa against Salman Rushdie was issued, I have found myself forced to learn more about Islam than I ever cared to. Some of us are not fooled by the "religion of peace."

  • Mistymoo

    Well said

  • Mistymoo

    lol be extra hassle though

  • Justin_Funski

    Where ever there are Muslims, the "religion of peace" has trouble getting on with their neighbors. Jewish, Christian, gay, Hindu, Russian, American, Danish - it doesn't matter. Muslims hate everyone equally (well, maybe Jews and Christians more).

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002604526984 Jut Jee

    Sallam,
    This is very nice documentary for ISLAM. Islam is the best religion of the world. This is true religion. And the Muhammad(PBUH) the great prophet for us.
    Thank you
    And please carry on...

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=653705067 Saud AlSulaiti

    I think you are confusing politics and religion. Imagine a society where the vast majority of individuals are uneducated, then feed those individuals fake religious rhetoric to further your political agenda. (By "uneducated," I am referring to individuals who have never even graduated elementary school.)

    As far as your comment regarding the execution of homosexuality and hatred towards Jews and Christians as taught by Islam -- the same can be said about the teachings of Christianity. I believe the majority, if not all, anti-gay movements are headed by Christians. Also, the quote you have from the Quran seems to be taken out of context, because the Quran in fact states that Jews and Christians are people of the book and came before Islam, and therefore, they should be respected.

    Woman have held positions of authority, the most famous being Benazir Bhutto (Pakistani PM). There are countless women muslim ambassadors (i.e. Maliha Lodhi). The majority of the Middle-East and a few other Muslim nations are monarchies, in such systems, you will find that there are numerous female authorities (i.e. Sheikha Mozah of Qatar, Queen Rania of Jordan, Queen Noor etc), so your argument is some what incorrect and misleading. Also, you stated there is no female imam or mullah, well there is no female priest, father, pope, or rabbi.

    Mohammed did marry Aisha when she was 6 years old, however, she remained a virgin until she hit puberty. During that era, when a girl hit puberty she was considered an adult. Mary, mother of Jesus, was married to 80-90 year old Joseph at age 12-15. Abraham, at age 86, bore Ishmael from his 15 year old wife. Because we have progressed as a society, we now understand the implications and absurdity behind child marriages, but back then -- clearly they did not.

    Islam's rules on polygamy are strict and are clearly not adhered to today. The concept of four wives emerged during a time of war when there were many widows. Thus, men were allowed to marry more than one woman, so long as, each wife was treated equally in both respect and wealth.

    As for the Yemeni story -- you are confusing a ideologies of a corrupt uneducated society with religion. These individuals believe such practices to be permissive, when in fact, these practices have emerged from sadistic pedophiles who used religion as means to carry out their sexual desires. You won't see someone saying "marrying 12 year olds with over 20 wives is still practiced in Christian nations" (in reference to the Mormans).

    No man made religion, especially one that is followed by approximately 25% of the world, would allow blatant abuses. It is the misinterpretation of religions by select fanatics that gives religion a bad name. Mix politics, religion and a lack of education and you got yourself a personal robot.

    Please don't take the above as an argument or directed towards you in anger. I myself don't believe in any man-made religion and since all religion is man-made -- yeah...

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/William-Bebonis/579712618 William Bebonis

    Excuse me? 'Life is about reproduction and passing on your genes to the next generation'?

    What a load of nonsense. Life perpetuates because animals reproduce, but that does not mean that the purpose of life itself is thus reproduction. What a dismal and repetitive purpose that would be.

    Study biology and you will learn that in many species of animals, it is the minority (not the majority) that actually partake in reproduction. Only about 5% of mole rats, for example, ever reproduce.

  • SuperPhoenix

    guess wt u guys are white and seem 2 think that ur women are being taken over by evry1 including muslim but guess wt it seems because ur women are the 1 who sees good nature in daily muslim mens and mens who does not show ego, pride nd most of all hate. Secondly u guys are cheat and westerner who does not treat their precious white women with respect. You see them as sex object and never stress about love for them but those muslim and other non white ppl does earn it by respecting ur women. U call ur white women, bitch(sex slave) but when muslim and non white western men approach white women they respect them as their sister. That is why they leave u and settle down and get married with us. Shame on u. plus fyi those drawing are done by white western men whose perverted mind thought that white women taken wre checked from boobs to bum.

  • flowersinbloom

    Do not speak of which you do not know. If you did not study the sciences of the religion properly, under certified tutelage etc; you cannot quote any hadith or verse from the Quran so easily, assuming whatever interpretation you want of it so freely; and share it to others.

    The question of faith is not sth that can be viewed with an already preconceived conclusion. People who really want to understand Islam, in their effort to find the Creator and Master of the Universe, would try to find both sides of the story.

    #Degrading any belief, whether Islam or Christianity etc. reflects nothing but pure disrespect for fellow human beings and their choice of religion.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Smokn5gramBluntsOfKush Tyson Wardleigh

    religion is fake and a took to control simple minds.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Smokn5gramBluntsOfKush Tyson Wardleigh

    you do realize there are tons of white muslims?

  • http://www.facebook.com/Smokn5gramBluntsOfKush Tyson Wardleigh

    funny how my girlfriend is muslim and im white and she got married me. Work both ways dbag :)

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/JKDXLLZW2NO4NUM6Z6GY44E6NI LegendaRYY

    I bear witness that there is not God but Almighty Allah and Prophet Muhammad is His last final Prophet and servant! ameen!! La-Illaha-Illah!! Allahu Akbar!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=646302952 Ariela Teodora

    Life is in fact about reproduction and mixing genes to get new forms of life. It is not about knowing which genes are yours because that's not ESSENTIAL to life. So if women had many sexual partners it would be beneficial to evolution and the expansion of life. Now when it comes to riches and how they are dispersed, I would understand why men would REALLY want to know who their offspring belongs to (not that is would make any difference in reality but that the idea that humans have created).

    I would just like to point out: '' polygamy. It is implemented into the religion'' and ''Polygamy is not a religious thing''...

  • Porphyry_nietzsche

    Most of you have obviously never read the Koran. I do not believe in any of the Abrahamic nonsense, Jews, Christian, and Muslim are all pathetic and will never understand the universe or grow spiritually. However, at least many Muslims can say they practice their religion properly. I have yet to meet or hear of a single Christian or Jew that does this. How weak is your god that he cant even have real followers? You Christians and Jews and most Muslims have such little discipline and love for your lame excuse for a god that you cannot even read his supposed word? It would show if you did because...you actually would be following it correctly... but you people are so weak that you can't even do this.

  • NoDeitiesAllowed

    so you've been able to observe every single Christian and Jew throughout time all over the world to be able to make this statement? You sound like a Muslim or at least a sympathizer yourself. For someone who does not believe in Jewish, Christian or Muslim nonsense you sure seem to hold Islam in a much higher regard. Who are you to say which is the "correct way" to follow one's beliefs It's just that - a *personal* belief and as individuals, people should be able to practice as they see fit. Not rigidly adhere to someone elses ideal. If someone has a relationship to their god, however they choose to worship him/her should be good enough.

  • Sharuk

    Islam copied all religion best and good things now they try to teach others,good try.

  • joeeeeeeee

    One need not have to get approval to see and understand the perverted disgusting life style of the ( new Persia) Obviously you don't know the American culture of you wouldn't even be here.
    To be honest this will be the last of the Muslim culture.

  • joeeeeeeee

    islam will be gone

  • http://www.facebook.com/naeem.rafiq.7 Naeem Rafiq

    well leave Muslim culture and Muslims for many year left your culture alone we are not even interested in your america culture. If your interested in our we welcome you but at-least dont steal oli Gold and abuse our welcome. Thanks all we Muslim ask for thats all. we are a peace people,1000 or 100000 fanatic dont make up for the billion of us.. Otherwise we will call you americas the kill of Criminal Orgin

  • abdulwalee

    The Video has too many Non-Scholars speaking here

  • http://www.facebook.com/nabeelikbal Nabeel Iqbal

    you wish kid

  • AUSSIE

    We do not hate other faiths, if we did so the Quran wouldn't make reference to acceptance of other faiths, the recognition of other prophets as our prophets but who's messages we do not follow. There is one thing we do not like and that is people who cause terror in the name of Islam, they have confused their national/cultural identity with religion and manipulated the teachings/guidance of Islam. Christians and Jews are justified in their terror because it is put forward by world leaders who justify the injustice through manipulating the information provided to the public, they do not always have human rights in their sights when invadimg/"trying to save a country/its people". When America is a country with the poorest people in the world, how is it a global leader? Arent you suspicious of how that happens? America will only invade those countries who have natural resources they can make money from (oil etc) AND in Afghanistan they control/regulate opium farming - which brings to ones mind a number of questions. America controls the worlds Heroin/Opium supply and then goes on to incarcerate its citizens. Everything that is done by Islamic extremists is seen as barbaric because they are individuals fighting for a cause (unfortunately it is done by tarnishing religion) which is why it is seen as unjust and horrible.....The Governments act in just the same way but it is pushed aside because it is done via operations which have process/procedure/protocol (defence departments) and it is done so in a more secretive/manipulated manner. These governments also terrorise their own citizens daily through lack of basic human rights, lack of attention to poverty and social security/social justice etc. etc. So before you judge a religion/large number of people, educate yourself on why the majority of tht religion acts in a civil manner by reading the actual teachings of the Quran (dont worry, you won't catch a disease by reading it). Judging an entire community and making up false accusations about their belief/practise makes you just as much a hater as those who act out terror. .

  • a_no_n

    Christianity did exactly the same.

  • a_no_n

    that's not actually true.
    Before the crusades Islam lived quite peacefully amongst the Jewish and the Orthadox christians.

    Then the Latin Christians showed up on crusade and the place has been on fire pretty much ever since.

  • a_no_n

    i think his feeble mind can only deal with so many pidgeonholes at once. if you start introducing such weighty concepts as white muslims to him there's every chance he'll have a stroke.

  • a_no_n

    knowing John he probably got it wrong.
    (most other things he says in that stupid gospel are either misquoted or just plain wrong.)

    of course, you realise that Christianity and Islam are essentially the same religion right?

  • Fabien L'Amour

    It was the last hour 19 centuries ago??? I guess I missed it!

  • Treaclebeak

    a_no_n

    Nonsense, Europe and the Byzantines had been under constant attack by Muslims for the previous 450 years. The underlying cause of the Crusades was a request for help from the Byzantine Emperor as The Turks were conquering Christian territory in Anatolia.
    Muslims started the war not the Crusaders.

  • a_no_n

    unfortunatly the papal bull where most of that comes from is proved to be a nonsense. These stories were used to justify the crusades, however any history book not pushing a white power agenda will tell you that the Christians had free passage to the holy land for pilgrimages, they had their own quarter of Jerusalem, as did the Jews.

    The Turks were oputclassing the Byzantines on the battlefield, that's why the Emperor called for aid. he was hoping for a crack squad of knights, not three centuries of marauding armies!

    It wasn't until the latin christians came along that all that the relative peace went belly up.

    your understanding of the crusades is very VERY one sided!

  • Treaclebeak

    "however any history book not pushing a white power agenda"

    Your definition of 'white power agenda' apparently refers to those better researched books written by competent historians, who aren't islamic propagandists.

    'the Turks were oputclassing the Byzantines on the battlefield" Why was that, do you think? it was because the Turks were attacking the Byzantines, and other Moslems were raiding most of coastal Europe, do you call that peace? The Crusades were a minor event in the European resistance to the jihad which started in the 7th century and only ended in the 18th when Europe became too powerful for Muslims to attack.

    "your understanding of the crusades is very VERY one sided!" LOL

    Learn the history of the previous 450 years and you will understand the context of the Crusades.

  • Treaclebeak

    "In medieval times, the unwavering belief that the world was flat led to riots, isolation, and even death to those who dared to contest this fallacy."

    No, it's a myth, educated Medieval Europeans knew that the Earth was round, the Hellenistic Greek geographer Eratosthenes had even calculated its circumference in ancient times, Muslim scientists improved on his method about a thousand years later.

  • a_no_n

    Your definition of 'white power agenda' apparently refers to those
    better researched books written by competent historians, who aren't
    islamic propagandists.

    Lol...name one of your sources...Any one of them will do...presuming you actually have any, which i suspect you don't. I'm guessing you're attempting to pass off your personal hatreds as facts, and you're lying about having sources to give yourself some sort of authority or legitimacy. if you can't provide me with any names then i'll know i'm correct...If yopu can provide me with names, then we can start having a real argument rather than this petty nonsense!

  • Treaclebeak

    a_no_n

    OK, here they are--
    Books
    1. 'Byzantium and the early Islamic conquests' by Walter E Kaegi
    2. 'Byzantium' (vol 1,2&3) by J.J.Norwich
    3. 'Byzantium and the Crusades' by Johnathan Harris
    4. "The Dream and the Tomb" by Robert Payne.

    Video podcast

    'Europe from its Origins' by Joseph Hogarty

    Hogarty has been accused of bias, however his video provides an overview of the devastating effect of Moslem attacks on Europe and explains the context of the Crusades.

    Yes, of course, the Crusaders were brutal and essentially gangsters by modern standards, but so were their enemies.

    You won't learn much from instant Wiki articles, or 3-page on line references. So if you're really interested read some of the books I've recommended, particularly Norwich's three volume history.

  • a_no_n

    Well that's not how quotes are presented...lol and then you have the nerve to mock my understanding of the subject...the irony would be hilarious if it weren't so irritating.

    hmm, I take it in your researching of the crusades you haven't gotten as far as the fouth, where the Latin Christians invaded Orthadox Byzantium, looted constantinople and exiled the emperor...Sorry i just thought i'd point out the irony of using books about Byzantium to highlight the brutality of Muslims. Christians razed constantinople and slaughtered the christians there about four hundred years before any Muslim force ever thought to.

    But shocking ignorance aside. That's not how quotes work. What pages do these people say these things (may i remind you this initial argument started because of an assumption that Muslims know nothing but violence).

    You also ignore the fact that the Turks were migrating westward away from people invading their own homelands in the steppes...But what's context eh?

    I just can't work out this strange double standard of yours, which makes it perfectly ok to conquer and slaughter so long as you're doing it with a cross around your neck.

  • Treaclebeak

    Don't you understand, I'm providing references to books, not quotes.
    Of course I know about the 4th Crusade, I read books, not random Wiki articles. I understand, those big book thingies must be scary for you, all those pages, you might even learn something.

  • a_no_n

    I'll give you an example of a reference in about two paragraphs time.
    YOU said that these books all justified your laughably outdated opinion, i want to know where they assert that, you said they did but don't provide any examples...I wonder why?
    Tell me, do you only read from one perspective? all those books are about the late Roman empire and it's perspective. Do you know/care what the Turks said or thought about the whole thing? or their reasons, like perhaps fleeing their ancestral home from an invading tribe (Spoiler alert, that's what actually happened.)
    I mean afterall if you're going to make insistances about a group of people, should you not at least see what they are telling themselves first? I wonder why you didn't?

    Anyway back to the argument. Do these historians actually say "The muslims were a cartoonishly barbaric people always have been always will be." or are you missing out the beginning that reads "at the time Christians believed." I don't know, and incase you haven't realised, i don't trust your opinion, or your word.

    To get a better grasp of what Islam was ACTUALLY like at the time I'm just going to Reference a contempory written source from the muslim world. Abu al-Quasim (936-1013) The greatest medieval surgeon in the Islamic world. Used practices and techniques still in use today, and was practicing a full 700 years before any Christian would bother learning real surgery. the Kitab al-Tasrif (The method of medicine) is his treatise on surgery, which proposed things like socialised healthcare and has illustrated details on over 200 surgical instruments that again, were hundreds of years away from being used in Europe.
    (THAT'S a reference.)

    Also the Emperor certainly didn't ask for a crusade. He sent word to Rome for help hoping that perhaps a unit of Knights could come and support his army, much in the same vein as the empire used Vikings and Saxons as an elite force in the Varangian Guard.

    The whole point of the crusades from the emperors perspective was to win back lost lands...Lands that would later become the Crusader states once the crusaders finished betraying him and then abandoning their original cause. The entire crusade was built on lies and misunderstandings! the crusaders were little more than Gaudily dressed Pirates.

  • Ruthless M

    Islam may be a religion of peace but it is used politically to abuse women. Islamism believes it is ok to kill apostates in many countries.

  • jellybean8309

    Hi, Actually the Muslims 'Allah' is not the same as the God of Israel. Muslims do not believe God has a Son named Jesus. and that they are One. They do not believe Jesus rose from the dead. Jesus said 'I AM the Way, The Truth and The Life, no man can come to the Father except through Me'

  • a_no_n

    Again according to an anonymous Greek monk who was writing about 70 years after the man had supposedly died.

    By comparison it's been 40 years since Elvis died and people can't even agree on how the man preferred his chicken to be fried.

    When you scrape away all the decoration they are both pretty much exactly the same religion.

  • KellyTrevino

    circumscison of men is NOT mandatory. in fact, it not in the quran at all. and it is not part of the religion. im not and id never do it to any of my sons either. im a muslim to