and as a nurse… i get paid hourly like you would working at subway lol. you DONT get paid more or less providing any type of service… And i get paid by my province health care system.. which funny enough my taxes go to.. so in the long run i pay myself to work.. :P
yay me.

get vaccinated or dont get vaccinated who cares?! Just regardless there will be risk and as long as you accept them thats your own business. No one should try and shove their own beliefs onto others. There is no right or wrong. in the end were all going to die…

i’m always a bit irked by comments like this. essentially, you’re saying:
“Big Pharma” is a “billion dollar industry”
therefore
vaccines are bad.

(i say this because you are responding to a film that is essentially claiming that “vaccines are bad”). the thing is… that’s an invalid conclusion. in fact, no-one’s arguing that it *isn’t* a “billion dollar industry”. the thing is–that’s not entirely germane to the question of whether vaccines are generally safe. if you’re going to question anything, question the *science*, not the supposed motives of the people promoting the treatment.

however, i suppose that sort of information is relevant if you’re already inclined to distrust orgs. like the FDA, WHO, CDC or MSF (Médecins Sans Frontières); but if that’s the case, no amount of scientific evidence–not even the hundreds of studies that attest to the safety of vaccines– will convince you.

the scientific community is not an echo chamber. scientists, researchers, doctors, etc. do not believe each other or have general consensus opinions *because* they are scientists, researchers and doctors, but *because* well-performed scientific investigations generate the consensus opinion. for that reason, i tend to view with skepticism opinions that are based on questions of motives.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzhWr9yo1z4&feature=related[/url]

With most of the available “so called research” being paid for and marketed by the companies that want to sell this stuff it is hard to believe them as trustworthy.

With a lot of research being done by activists that seem to show totally different results and them seemingly having nothing to really gain. It is much easier to believe that they may be correct even though the establishment wants to brand them as nuts.

With that said, there unfortunately is not enough independent research that conclusively proves one way or the other. I have, although, seen enough myself that I stand by what I have said.

What is absolutely clear is that better research is needed as well as a better approach. Maybe an as needed approach.

Like for example let’s say 1000 people die or have permanent damage each year from vaccinations. Let’s also say, to be fair, that 1000 people would die or have permanent damage each year if we didn’t vaccinate. Let’s also say that if we were to only vaccinate when and where necessary as deemed by uptake of the particular disease that only 100 people die or have permanent damage as a result of the combination of not having been vaccinated and getting vaccinated. This hypothetical scenario would result in a 95% decrease in problems associated with vaccination overall.

Granted these figures are completely made up and may be way off. Nobody, as far as I know, could really say as this option has not been investigated. If this is even close to reasonable it is something that should definitely be looked into. Whatever the case there has to be a far better option then mandatory vaccination for everyone, sick or not, pregnant or not, at risk or not, premature or not, under 6 months old or not.

Hopefully someday soon we have the research we need and the plan to maximize the benefits and minimize the risks including possible reformulation of some vaccines and a total different approach to administration of them.

Edit: Almost forgot, you are right in that I should have said “all drugs CAN cause adverse side effects”

1. Most things they vaccinate against are rare in modern societies.

- Yes, but this is due largely to the use of vaccines. every time a bunch of people start refusing vaccines, the number of cases of these diseases increases proportionately. Fact.

2. Even if you get one of these diseases the chance of it killing you is small unless you have other health problems.

- Yes, the chance of death from measles is slight, but considering that complications are common, and some of these carry a very significant risk of death and/or chronic damage for example ; encephalitis (not treatable), pneumonia, bronchitis etc. as well as rubella although being tolerable and almost certainly not fatal, is very likely (40-50%) to cause permanent damage to an unborn fetus, particularly in the early stages while the mother may not even know she is pregnant, I still think it highly sensible to keep these diseases at a rare level through vaccination.

3. The ingredients of vaccines are far more harmful then most of the diseases are in the modern world.

- yes the ingredients in some (not all) vaccines can indeed be harmful in larger doses the like of which you will not find in any vaccines, or to particularly susceptible individuals in the tiny doses, but these are a very small percentage of the population. There are a higher percentage of people who would suffer the rare fatality or the rather common complications of the disease itself, so I think this outweighs the possible harmful effects.

4 & 5 – I agree wholeheartedly.

6. I am not aware of this claim, I think possibly you are confusing the fact that un-vaccinated children increase the probability of transmission of the disease within the population in general? Please cite me the reference if I am mistaken here.

7. They have paid settlements to families because of the adverse effects of vaccines. They would not do this if nothing was wrong with them.

- Yes, pharmaceutical companies are profit based organisations and are endowed of all the human weakness that this entails but you answer yourself quite appropriately in your next point ;

8. All drugs cause adverse side effects. To say that vaccines are the one thing that magically does not would be ludicrous.

- (firstly you should say all drugs CAN cause adverse side effects) No one is claiming that vaccines do not carry risks. At least no one with at least a lay understanding of medicine. All medicines contain poisons, and should only be used when the benefits outweigh the risks. Contemporary culture has led many into a delusion that medicines are simply ‘fix me’ pills with no risk, or that risk free drugs are a possibility, mainly because of marketing which I think is a truly wretched practice (any marketeers reading this? do me and the rest of humanity a favor and kill yourselves). With vaccines, the benefits are to an entire population, so I think the large benefits to society (the continued rarity of certain diseases) outweigh the small potential risk to the individual. I admit it may seem cold to expect a grieving parent to accept this truth but there it is, so go sue big pharma all you like. They can afford to settle, no problem at all. If people are are educated to a level where they can vaguely understand statistical analysis, and the process and method of medical science, when presented with the numbers and trends recorded over many decades, it is quite clear that we a owe a huge debt for our current and continued well being to vaccines. To make it mandatory should not be needed though, this is a reaction to the poor education of large groups of people within society, for whom the governing body finds it necessary to take these steps in order to protect the populace as a whole. If a few refuse, fine. If many refuse the disease starts to come back.

Regards,
Sam.