You as a european declaring what is proper and necessary for me is RACIST and very american in itself which is where I’m located and shaped by my environment, not proud just stating the facts of environment shaping perception. You instructing me of my necessities, absent of the experience makes about as much sense as a male instructing a woman on proper hygiene during a menstrual cycle when he never experienced one.

If they shown in this documentary what the Moors actually looked like there would be no need or inspiration for my initial comment. So why did you state this misrepresentation of facts?

Please avoid spreading the racial nonsense Europeans spread in the first place! My comment would not inflame anyone, I do not see anything wrong with the desire to be PROPERLY represented in some kind of morsel of history. North Africa to all of europe is known as THE GREAT WHITE QUADRANT, so the european takes Egypt, Mesopotamian, Roman, middle east …. all great empires he originated and I inspire this comment from you, just one time can somebody else have ever contributed to civilization.

The context of my comment was simple, the documentary told the story of Moors a nationality not an ethnic group so nothing great to me. Dr. Ben and Dr. Clark as well as Ivan Van Sertima have spoken on their experience in visiting european museums and halls of acdemia study and eras of history that were not european dominated were represented as periods of decline.

I learned a long time ago, information do not change belief systems so I do not debate on religion or racial supremacy for “HE WHO CONTROLS THE PRINTED PAGE CONTROLS THE THINKING OF THE AGE” – Ray Hagins

If reality is ever evolving through information acquisition and perception filters, the best we do is grasp things we already agree with for… every proof of a particular aspect of human endeavor there will be an opposing of formidable credentials! Find what you want to believe what you want.

What is it gonna bring to the debate ? If people are shown the way they actually looked, in a simple descriptive manner, isn’t it enough ? Why want to copy the Europeans bad habits to reverse their lies ? I don’t get that.

This is very American in a way. Race all over the place.

Though I do understand that African-Americans need positive representation. But not that way. Please avoid spreading the racial nonsense Europeans spread in the first place !

Ivan Van Sertima used a lot of pictures to make his point. That was it. Factual proof. It was enough. For me at least, and I am a European. It corroborated observations I had made myself. Facing racists, anyway, whatever you won’t work. They are determined to think the way they think, period. It’s sickness.

And you are stating this from fact I presume rather than religious conviction. I suppose to you muslim mass murder of non muslims was a better deal but ooooooo when muslims are on the receiving end of it its all evil and bad

Conclusion : Every one have to pay a certain tax.

**Dhimmis = The people on charge- Mean people that are on the state responsability and the state have to protect. Many Wizir (prime minsiters) were Dhimmis and even Jewish.

Dimmis don’t have the duty as other muslum citizen to partcipate on wars and fight because they pay Jizya. Dhimis were autonomous, have their properties, lands slaves and even their laws, chruches etc.
They were a place for every religion and ethnicity.

As for digits :)

Ironically most of ‘arab’ countries use now hindu litterals :) and the west use the arabic digit. What you advance is 100% wrong.
Also muslum civilisation is not ‘arabic’ but rather multi ethnic.

Hindi litterals : ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

•The invasion and subjugation will ever be forgotten or forgiven no matter how wonderful the victor may be. In fact quite the opposite is true.

•Being of European extraction I feel that I owe a debt of gratitude to Charles Martel (the hammer) for giving the Umayyad Caliphate the bums rush out of central Europe after he defeated their army at the Battle of Poitiers AKA the Battle of Tours in AD 732. It was after all his actions that prevented further Islamic contamination of Europe.

•The narrator said, “the Christians converted in droves.” As if it was some sort of epiphany. The truth is that the Visigothic Christian occupants of Hispania that remained were ‘obliged’ to convert to Islam or forever occupy the lowest rung of the social ladder.

“Many Christians converted to Islam to avoid the Jizya tax which they were subjected to as Dhimmis. Conversion to Islam also opened up new horizons to the native Christians, alleviated their social position, ensured better living conditions, and broadened scope for more technically skilled and advanced work.”

Well no ****, it was either convert or scrabble in the dirt for a marginal living.

Obviously the narrator has an infatuation with Islamic world but I find it to be absurd that this woman doesn’t have a problem with the brutal subjugation of the indigenous population of Iberia by the Umayyad Caliphate. In fact she hardly mentions it. However in characterizing the Reconquista as a dirty grab for land by packs of barbarian Christians she marks herself as intellectually dishonest. They were simply taking back what was stolen from them. Turn about is after all fair play.

And the Narrator ignorantly attributes 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 what we call Arabic numerals to the Muslims, but in truth they are Hindu numerals that were in common usage by the Persians and Hindus hundreds of years before Islam came into existence. But to be fair the Arabs have always called them ‘Hindu Numerals.’ And as far as the concept of zero is concerned that bit dates back to the Babylonians who in the 2nd millennium BC had a sophisticated sexagesimal (Base 60) positional numeral system.

“The concept of zero as a number and not merely a symbol for separation is attributed to India where by the 9th century AD practical calculations were carried out using zero, which was treated like any other number, even in case of division.”

The bottom line is that Conquest is conquest and subjugation is subjugation and retribution should be expected.

**Jizya = Material proof (tribute) of the non-Muslims’ acceptance of subjection.
**Dhimmis = one having fewer legal and social responsibilities and rights than a Muslim.

http://www.amazon.com/Golden-Moor-Journal-African-Civilizations/dp/1560005815
“Over the years I have both read and heard many different theories about the racial and ethnic identity of the people that history refers to as the Moors. According to history, the Moors are the people who invaded and then occupied southern Spain for some 400 years and made their presence felt thoughout Europe. However, the historians who give us there theories on the racial and ethnic identity of the Moors give very little, and in many cases, no credible evidence at all to support them. In his book The Golden Age Of The Moor, Ivan Van Sertima takes an entirely different approach to identifing the Moors. He dosen’t atempt to explain the theories of others nor does he offer a theory of his own. Instead Van Sertima presents a compilation of historical information taken from the museums of Europe that describe the Moors. In his book Van Sertima presents paintings, sculptures, coats of arms, and written records about the Moors, that date back to the period that the Moors were in Europe. Van Sertima’s approach is based upon his premis that the most accurate information about the Moors would be the information recorded by the European historians and the European people that lived during the period of time that Moors were in Europe. I wholeheartly agree with Van Sertima. I feel that his book, The Golden Age Of The Moor is an excellent work, highly recomended for anyone looking for factual information on the racial and ethnic identity of the Moors.” -Michael Dennis