America's Most Hated Family In Crisis

2011, Society  -   290 Comments
Ratings: 8.74/10 from 31 users.

America's Most Hated Family In CrisisFollowing up on his hugely popular and acclaimed 2007 documentary The Most Hated Family In America, Louis Theroux returns to Topeka, Kansas, for a second visit to the Westboro Baptist Church.

A fire-and-brimstone Christian group, made up of 80 or so members of the Phelps family, the WBC have made themselves notorious in America - and worldwide - for their pickets of the funerals of soldiers killed in action, where they wield anti-gay placards.

The Phelps believe the soldiers were killed as part of God's punishment of America for its toleration of homosexuality. But, four years on from Louis's last visit, there are signs of disarray in the Phelps clan. A series of defections of family members has shaken up the church. They've been at the center of a landmark Supreme Court case and, possibly because of the resulting attention, their beliefs have become increasingly bizarre.

In America's Most Hated Family In Crisis, Louis is once again granted a behind-the-scenes look at America's most controversial Christian group as it gears up for what it sees as the final showdown with doomed America. Louis explores the church's strange new belief that Obama is The Beast spoken of in the Book Of Revelation, and their conviction that we are now in the run-up to the second coming of Christ.

But the church members have now seen his first documentary and, as a result, they revile Louis, who they see as one of the most evil men in all human history – alleging that he is on a par with Pontius Pilate for his supposed mockery of true Christianity. Yet the church members also see the spreading of their message as a necessary part of the church's out-reach, even if it means spending time with a hopeless unbeliever.

Louis also tracks down two of the departed members – young women, both of whom he had interviewed in the first film when they were still inside the church. He probes the parents of the apostates, who have "cut off" their renegade daughters, and who now affect a strange and chilling indifference to the separation. Louis gets under the skin of the church members, showing the human cost of living as part of an extreme religious group: the secret pain of parents who've turned their back on their children and the forbidden yearnings of the younger female devotees.

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290 Comments / User Reviews

  1. The bible actually doesn't say anything bad about homosexuality. It's all BAD translation. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because 10 righteous people could not be found, Genesis 18:32. The use of the expression " bring these men out to us that we may know them" is the basis for most of the misinterpretation yet the Hebrew verb ( to know) used here is found 943 times in the old testament and in only ten places does it mean sexual intercourse - and each time it refers to heterosexual relations. The people of Sodom broke the law of hospitality to strangers which was religiously observed by the culture. If homosexuality was the reason, why didn't the writer use the Hebrew word "ahakabh" which actually means homosexuality or bestiality, instead of the word "yadha" which means "to know"? If you want to know what the bible does and doesn't say about Homosexuality the answer is nothing. Yes, I know you may have other passages in the bible that you think refer to homosexuality, but I don't want to bother with all this writing it's better if you just watch this.

  2. I've never seen any religion twisted into so much hate. I'm an atheist. I can respect other religions, but there is so much hate here, and so much defensiveness. Hard to believe...

  3. Very disturbing documentary, i only watched it for the first time last night.

    However it amazes me how much of that controlling phenomina in the doc occurs in the main stream pentecostal churches.

    Obviously it is not as in your face as the Phelps are but more subtle, but the fact reamins it is still there. Here just a few of the lines the pentecostal churches use:-

    “If you walk away from the man whom God has put over you, you will lose your destiny and have to answer to Jesus for it”

    “If you leave for ****** you will be out of the will of God and everything in your life will fail”

    “God has put you here to serve the vision that God has given me, your purpose is to serve that vision and reap the blessing of serving your leader. You can’t afford to leave”

    “Touch not the Lord’s anointed”
    And then they say we love you you are our family, very nice sounding stuff, trust me leave that church and see how that so called love is immediately recanted.
    God bless America

  4. Talk about psychotic behavior! We should give ISIS a treat: The Westboro Baptist "Church"

  5. wow these people blew my mind

  6. Never fails to amuse me,,the human condition,,i think once the leader croaks,,that will be the end of that,,

  7. Lol I think the real reason the wbc clan are so cranky and lash out at everybody is they realise that apart from a little bit of comic relief to normal people the church members and their beliefs are largely irrelevant and even a little bit sad. Their hypocrisy cracks me up no end. It's a fact that we rail the loudest against that which we most desire. So it's my theory that the church is actually a cell of Satans' Gay Liberation Front of Judea.

  8. I wholly believe that once the old man is laid to rest the remainder of the family will try to keep up appearances by selecting another "prophet" who will lead them into their separation. The "elder" and his rage has been deep-seeded into his children; who know nothing else besides his "indoctrinations".
    I think they will separate into those which Gramps has long governed and those with a free mind, and it will be nothing short of spectacular and on the human end-melancholy.
    These folks are in it for the attention. And it's sad they do not know (or accept) the God I've known. He welcomes those with seedy pasts, welcomes those with burdens of this world, and has promised (PROMISED!!!) His timely second coming according to the gospels-for all those that are repentant. No one is beyond his Grace and Mercy! We, as followers should be spreading His good news, not condemning.
    Also, just a couple of loose ends:
    1. Shall they picket the funeral of their beloved once he has died? I mean, they don't worship the dead...
    2. I wonder if they will sue the group that does picket during his memorial, or will they grieve (another example of worshipping those dead), or request privacy? (Nothing they've afforded the others..)
    3. What about the hate-mongering? Will they suddenly find no good reason to continue their blatant displays of hatred and make a miraculous "return" to the Jesus the Bible speaks of because " they were brainwashed into Gramps' rage via fear of thier childhood?"
    4. What the heck ever! These folks are looney! Beliving God promised 144, 000 but suddenly He'd retract His everlasting word to save 70?? All of which serve the same disillusioned Gospel? Yep that's definitely the Almighty we believe in...whatever! !

  9. Self loathing on a grand scale

  10. What I want to know and what I've never heard asked is - what gives them the right to judge? Isn't that reserved for God? If God is going to smite those that disagree with their teachings and they hate those that live alternative lifestyles, then why do they care enough to antagonize?

    1. I think the way they would answer that is that they are not the ones judging or antagonizing. God and his word is. But of course that's clearly a lie since you can see the spite and the anger in the main leaders especially. It's all pretty convenient to think that way because it gives them a free pass to act inhumanely and ignore any and all empathy for their fellow human being. It's what keeps them going really because no human being could go on doing what they do with the full knowledge and understanding that they are the ones causing harm and inciting anger, pain an hate.

    2. That's exactly right. As hard as it is to do; especially when they're doing something vile like protesting a soldier's funeral, all society has to do is ignore them and they'll go away. All they really want is attention and once we stop giving that to them, they'll have nothing left.

    3. It would be interesting to see what they would do if they no longer got any attention. But one way or another they are bound to become extinct because younger generations will wake up to what they are doing (as some already have) and eventually there will be no one left. Hate never prevails over time. It always ends up being defeated.

  11. Noah seems like a pretty good kid underneath it all, all be extremely confused. All I hear when he opens his mouth about his beliefs, is his mother. It's sad.
    Grace is a spunk. An artistic spunk. And seemingly not as full of misguided hate as the rest. I hope she leaves the church and takes Noah with her.

    1. Well, how bout that, Grace did leave :)

  12. This family has a problem with reasoning and it's very frustrating to watch. WHY do they give interviews if their only answers to questions they don't like are either, "You're just being silly now" or a curt "I'm not gonna answer that."

    I understand that their goal has nothing to do with gaining more followers, but they also seem dead-set on getting the world to passionately hate them, and it boggles my mind. If they truly believe they're the chosen ones, why aren't they content with that? Why are they bothering with people they believe are far beneath them? Especially when all they can tell them is that they're going to Hell?

  13. One big problem I have with these 'people' (I'm not even sure you can call them people after the amount of indoctrination they've been put through) is that if they truly believe what they believe then why do they still live and support the evil society as they see it they are hypocrite they should be living on wild lands making their own food clothing and certainly not buying and using cars which undoubtedly rely on homosexuals in at least a small part to produce them. If what they say is true then they would surely burn in hell along with all the others for all entity. They are nothing but power hungry deluded people who use fear mongering to gain power over others. They are virtually KONY why has America have no laws on indoctrinating children they should be put into a mental institute and have their children fostered by loving parents.

  14. If everyone is made in god's image, isn't god then at least a little gay?

    1. The ignorance of some people is just astonishing!

      When it says we were made in God's image it meas Body, Mind, Spirit! "Tripartite beings" When man was created there was no sin, meaning there was no such thing as homosexuality! (SMH)

    2. "The ignorance of some people is just astonishing!"
      You are finally right about something. ( common ground at last)

  15. They fly the flag upside down on their website. This organisation is a real drain on society. Sure they can believe what they want to believe, but choose to see the worse in everyone. So does Satan.

    1. About the flag upside down, I would also put it in my house since Obama is in the White House.

      It means the Nation is in "distress" not anti American. But for these idiots, it could mean Pizza delivery!

  16. Well now, there was no need to try beheading the dog...poor thing.

    Ps. DELUSIONS!!! Wow, didn't realise how crazy some people are...there's believing in God then there is madness.

  17. I just watched both of these, back to back. Verbal and mental abuse is the main theme.

    They give out and receive abuse on a regular basis and, before long, the abused quit, or become abusers. It spreads throughout them like a virus. Fear and hatred are among the weapons of that abuse. The cyclic spiral catching up with them, as seen here, is tearing them apart.

    Their attempts to endure such wickedness and contradiction, is to resort to ever greater resolve. Resolve that acts as a catalyst for ever greater acts of abuse. The only inevitable outcome being implosion.

    Fitting but sad, and so unnecessarily pointless.

    1. My thoughts exactly!

      It doesn't help that the whole thing is a scam. The Wesboro church is full of lawyers affiliated with the Phelps family firm, who sue US counties every time their right to protest is challenged for millions of dollars.

  18. Saw the documentary last night, you just have to feel sorry for them to be indoctrinated into this family and their believes. What hope has the world go when people think this. Christ loved people no matter of the life they have led. After all he did state that the robber on the cross next to him will be in paradise with him.

  19. There's so much hate...I can't even hate them back. I just feel sad for them at this point.

  20. How sad. May God have mercy on their souls.

  21. 1st Amendment is VERY clear. You have the right to an OPINION, FULL STOP. How you choose to express that OPINION is controlled by Federal and State Law in the United States. You CANNOT say whatever you want in public, to even suggest that, is profoundly r*tarded, and against the law.

    Ask ANY CONLAW Professor.

  22. Strange how all the girls look like the Mom & Grandpa, ?

  23. They could always leave america and go to the middle east.

  24. The most important section of the bible missed by this crew of lowlife biggots posing to be God Fearing is as states..
    "He who is without sin, cast the first stone"....Speaks for itself methinks
    After watching both Louis Theroux's Docos i was so nauseated i couldnt eat lunch..maybe from laughing so hard at these hypocrites. Gee thank **** im an AGNOSTIC, i will never be accused of hypocrisy. I was born and raised a catholic through no doing of my own and sadly my own mother is a hypocritical religious freak, but i can guarantee she commits at least 1 sin a day, RELIGION=HYPOCRISY.....Reminds me when i was 10 years old, i went to church on the Sunday(Funny the Pub was next door)and straight after mass all the men would make a mercy dash for the pub, get pissed and probably bash their wives and then go to confessional(The booth of Hypocrisy)...So dont these religious freaks preach to me about being hellbound..I live my life according to me...

  25. This people need to read the book called "What's so amazing about Grace?" by Phillip Yancey... a baptist also, who has understood what God really wants from the Church... this makes me so sad, that the Church has lost its focus and mission.

  26. can anybody say CULT!?

  27. OMG sounds like Destiny Church In New Zealand.

  28. This people should be vanished from earth!!!

  29. If they are against this country and all it stands for, then why do they get to stand BEHIND the first amendment? It is not "of this world" to appeal the ruling they received to the supreme court? The same court that rules on abortion and gay marriages is now suddenly good enough to overturn the lower courts ruling against them? Does anybody else see a double standard here? I consider myself a Christian, and I do believe this country has strayed away from God and his word, but what these people represent is just sick. And now you can add them to the long list of hypocritical religious freaks who turn more people away from God. They are in for a real surprise when it comes their day to be judged. SMH

  30. Funny how Shirley Roper, the most hateful of the bunch had a baby out of wedlock so her son is technically a bastard. Doesn't their bible teach that a bastard will never enter into the kingdom? Serving a mean god makes mean people.

  31. Something weird I noticed was all the weird giggling by the young women who are still in the group. The women who left no longer do it. Is it that they secretly realize how insane and ridiculous the BS they are spewing? Another thing I'm a somewhat religious person and this country was founded on freedom of speech, assembly and religion but this is absolutely crazy.

  32. I think they are great!

  33. All Religions have extremists. Atheists are religious in their non-belief, some are extreme.
    I hear the wbc sing songs that they stole the music from and added their own words. I would say their "crazy Train" has left the station and they should be sued for illegal use of the music.

    1. Debby, that is a joke, right? Extreme? Really? Either you do not believe or you do. I guess to you, an extreme atheist is somebody who will actually tell you the truth about it and give you all the reasons for why they think religion is a mental illness, because it is. I guess you think atheists should just shut up about it? Religious lunatics will stop at nothing to fill anybody within range's ears with all the brainwash BS they "Believe", but I guess that's not "extreme", huh? Double standards and condescension are the staples of religious idiots.

    2. No you have extremists in anything in the world. Whether it's sports, religion, politics, music anything really. I am Agnostic- meaning God may or may not exist but it does not concern me if he does or doesn't. Technicall, Debby didn't state anything regarding seeing religion as a mental illness or anything about Atheists shutting up. She merely stated, and I completely agree, that the Westboro Baptist Church are extremists and could be sued for illegal use of songs. Whether, it is illegal or not in the US, I don't know because I'm not American.

  34. Thanks to the word of God being spread in this video, I've just become an Atheist.

    1. don't get it mixed up. You'll never find shit on the words they pronounced or the way they said it in the Bible. The read it one way, it came out differently through their deranged brains, (if they ave any). They interpret it their way, and they dare say God said so. I won't lie, I feel ashamed of myself for the next words, I hope some of them die miserably and the others just stay there and watch/wonder why it's happening to them.
      Or at least, very shocking thing happens to them and and see the light! I'm angered by their lack of knowledge and ingenuity, they are mentally ill!

    2. It is on you if you choose to use this video as an excuse NOT to believe in God. Your decision is like saying: I went to my first baseball game and the team I was rooting for lost; I now officially hate baseball. Some the Bible for yourself. It is user friendly, and you can get tech support on sunday by attending Church Services. Just find a Church that preaches Jesus Christ as the authority and reads from the Bible during the sermon. God Bless and have a wonderful day. Romans 3:23, Acts 17:30, Romans 10:9-13, John 3:16, 1 Corinthians 13, Esphesians 2:8, John 3:36, Matthews 10:33, Revelation 20:15. May The Lord Bless you, your family and keep you from harm and may you continue to do what is right in the Eyes of the Lord, in Jesus' Name...Amen!

    3. I was just being facetious. I was an atheist long before this display of idiocy. And no, this is more like going to your first baseball game and watching the losing team get beheaded for not winning. Just because there was some reference in a 2000 year old rule book that was passed down from ancient warring tribes who thought the sun ate the moon every morning then had indigestion and regurgitated it every night.

  35. I'm worried about them; they could easily morph into a suicide cult. Pink caves in Jordan is a short step to grape Kool-aid

  36. They are not Calvinists... To call them that is an insult to the historical reformed faith. They are a VERY extreme example of what is termed "hypercalvinism" which isn't true calvinism at all, look it up...

  37. gay pride forever! eff the haters...

  38. This documentary is as disturbing as the first.

  39. Hey Everyone! I'm writing from Australia. Just wanted to say my GOD is a loving GOD and all that these people know how to do is HATE. Where are their kind signs - I bet they don't have ONE! This type of propaganda makes people love GOD but hate them. Their hate is what will eventually kill them...I thought Jesus was about forgiveness if you asked him ie Mary Magdaline (the female prostitute) and the sinner on the cross next to Jesus prayed for forgiveness and Jesus said he could now come and dwell with the Lord in the kingdom of heaven. Thank GOD for GOD! Start asking for forgiveness guys for wounding and hurting GOD's own children....It's been a laugh anyway!

    1. @Joesy Newcombe:

      Depends what "book" you are reading, in the OT your god is a mean mother..., you should not cherry pick what you would like to hear. Your Jesus in the NT if he even existed was not a god, just a mortal human being, means squat.

    2. I completely agree! Doesn't the bible say not to judge they neighbor, be kind, loving and treat others as you would want to be treated? The gay "filth" hate is disgusting and they are taking something written thousands of years ago and applying it literally in modern society. Of course there where legit concerns back in the day of procreation but this is no longer the case...adoption, donors, surrogates etc. not even delving into the fact that there are many heterosexual couples who can't conceive/ chose to abort/ give their babies up for adoption. Massive double standard there and an unfounded, feeble argument. It is really sad that they live such deluded, hollow lives that they feel they need to exhault themselves and follow a lunatic leader and his idiotic ramblings and skewed perception of a book meant to spread love and morality. These fools are doing a great detriment to their self proclaimed, self made "cause". I just feel sorry for the poor kids who get dragged into this cult by their hatemongering parents.

    3. Technically, they still have a God. They're a cult and cults have a God or more than one. My definition of a cult is a group of religious people twisting the words of the Bible and other religious script to get their point across. Whether it flat out states it in the scripture or not. The Lord, God, Jesus, Christ- whatever you want to call him is supposedly forgiving and understanding. What I see here is neither.

  40. The God of the Old Testament is indeed a vengeful, hateful, violent God. That is exactly what I got from reading the Bible several times . . . God does NOT love everyone. That is what they believe. They are Calvinists . . . look it up.

    These people, and the entire Religious Right in America, are precisely why I am an atheist.

  41. what is the world coming to?

  42. at 8:12 on playlist 4/4 someone should do a drive by shooting on them spare Louis though

    1. That would certainly solve the problem of healthcare for them. Why couldn't I have thought of that.

    2. I was thinking the exact same thing, do "gods" work and rid the planet of these brainwashed, mentally child abusing bigots !!!! Religion is confusing and can people in the 21st century still believe in fairytales?

    3. that would be very cruel, it''s not thier fault that their parents brainwashed them, they don't know anything different because they aren't allowed to talk to non-members of the family.

    4. You're right. The sad thing about that is that if they procreate, they will be continuing the cycle of intolerance and hatred. Yeah it's not totally their fault, but if they have kids and do the same things their parents did, it is just as much their fault as their parents. Also, one daughter of theirs left, so the capability is there. Those poor toddlers... they still have a chance. The other ones, the teenagers, don't have one anymore.You should be able to CHOOSE what kind of person you want to be when you grow up, and their parents robbed them of that wonderful privilege.

    5. They actually do, depending on if they're strong enough. Libby and Lauren from the Phelps family had enough courage to stand up and protest. The other, older girls, had just as much opportunuty to go against what the church stands for as the other two girls did. They were either too afraid or whole-heartedly believe in it to leave the church.

  43. Theroux seems to respect and revere muslims while lampooning WBC while they are very similar in some ways. I would like him to do a piece like this on muslims but his liberal progressive hypocritic ass would never.

  44. Just as the previous installment...OBNOXIOUSNESS as a religion.

  45. The best cure for this is to just ignore these people. Literally. Instead of counter-protesting, just ignore them. They'll eventually fizzle out...

    1. Exactly. By protesting, you're making it grander and more widespread. If it becomes more widespread, people will get hurt. Also, people might actuallt start to believe the message that the Westboro Baptist Church is sending

  46. Fred Phelps is a repressed homosexual and all those children are the result of incestuous relations -- what do you want to bet??

    1. I ain't betting you, because you are probably right.

    2. they women aren't allowed to have boyfriends, so there is no chance of a husband. their family will die out eventually just wait a couple decades when the elders aren't pressuring the younger generations anymore

    3. Except for the Grandpa Fred, you mean.

  47. If one lives separate from the world and is a professed child of God, why would there be a need to parody Lady Gaga songs for picket lines?? What happened to avoiding even the appearance of evil? I am not saying Lady Gaga is evil, but the Westboro Church claims to be separate from the world, yet they know the tunes and dance choreography of rock songs?

  48. All these people do is preach HATE and false words of God.

    1. @Leslie El Salvador:

      False words of God you say?? Well no, these are the words of your God in 16 different bibles:...Leviticus 20:13- King James bible, one of 16 bibles says...If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death, their blood shall be upon them.

      Don't you know anything about your supposedly benevolent religion?
      It seems that us atheists have to always teach you religee's.

    2. I thought the same thing. All I hear is hate coming out of their mouths. I cannot even recall hearing anything about what they actually believe, other than they are the only right and righteous ones walking this earth.
      I would love to be in line with this group of confused people on judgement day, so I could see the shocked looks on their faces when they find out where they are going and the things they have to answer for.

  49. These people are sooo false in soooooooooooooooo many ways...GOD IS ABOUT LOVE and to live life as an example of Jesus . WE ARE NOT GOD to be judging people. These people need a wake up call.

  50. I feel so sad for these people.....

  51. p3 - 5:52-6:02- quote- " Do you have any idea, um, what kinda of god that backs us?;and that is the god of the bible. What kin(d)-he is a TERRIBLE and jealous and vengeful god".
    OMG, wow, just wow, this is possible the most disturbing, laughable, sad, etc, thought I've ever heard spoken. I mean seriously...
    If god is these things then why the hell would you follow, why not fight against that god? If god is TERRIBLE(her words) then 'he' needs to be destroyed, not follwed or worshipped. Screw heaven in that case because why would you want to be a part of a kingdom of a monster?
    These people are so lost I can't help but feel a little sad for them.

  52. Do they realize Jesus would be the one person who would love the LGBT community the most?

  53. Instead of picketing those WBC guys someone should just port a large mirror in front of them and then leave.

  54. sometimes, i seriously can't tell if they really think what they say or if they're just trollin'.

  55. I just hope when they get to the perly gates Saint Peter is wearing a turban and a rather jazzy tank top

  56. they are in crisis : another - new born - christian example : amanda knox

  57. to **** and **** the moderator

  58. Louis in Hell i think i almost died laughing. I must find this guy and high five him for dealing with these religious cultists

  59. correct : fill your head with rock .. instead of their s*** : hollow drums sound the loudest and for this reason they make a use of their sick interpretation of reincarnation making everybody insecure wich have become abortion & euthanasia : christian warfare as there already are : genocide in the name of christianity .. muslims are of the same caliber

  60. these people are just institutionalised, their thinking is done for them by Daddy and his version of the old testament. The God of the O.T is vengeful, spiteful, self obsessed, prone to violence against everyone that doesn't fall at his feet and bend to his will, even if that means sacrificing your own kids. Gods are dictators, they rule with fear and oppression. A bit like the old man.

    1. not only these people also in eastern germany and europe of course keeping themselves brainsick

  61. this one is for the freaks : ....

    If you want to be a bird .... Why don't you try a little flying .... There's no denying .... It gets you high ....

    Why be shackled to your feet .... When you've got wings .... You haven't used yet .... Don't wait for heaven .... Get out and fly ....

    Just glide there .... Through the clear air .... Making figure eights .... Through the pearly gates .... Where the soul and the universe meet ....

    If you want to be a bird .... It won't take much .... To get you up there .... But when you come .... down .... Land .... on .... your .... feet ....

  62. Jesus is just all right with me .. Jesus is just all right, Oh yeah .. Jesus is just all right with me .. Jesus is just all right .. I don't care what they may know .. I don't care where they may go .. I don't care what they may know .. Jesus is just all right, oh yeah .. Jesus is just all right .. I don't care what they may say .. I don't care what they may do .. I don't care what they may say .. Jesus is just all right, oh yeah .. Jesus is just all right .. Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, .... Jesus is just all right with me .. Jesus is just all right, Oh yeah .. Jesus is just all right with me .. Jesus is just all right .. Jesus is just all right with me .. Jesus is just all right, Oh yeah .. Jesus is just all right with me .... Jesus is just all right ....

    1. you have been listening to way too much Doobie Brothers dude!

    2. the beards .... dude :

      oh I'd rather go and journey where the diamond crest is flowing and run across the valley beneath the sacred mountain and wander through the forest where the trees have leaves of prisms and break the light in colors that no one knows the names of .... and when it's time I'll go and wait beside a legendary fountain till I see your form reflected in it's clear and jewelled waters and if you think I'm ready you may lead me to the chasm where the rivers of our vision flow into one another .... I will want to die beneath the white cascading waters and she may beg, she may plead, she may argue with her logic and then she'll know the things I learned that really have no value in the end she will surely know I wasn't born to follow ....

  63. christianity was already and have become a sick institution with the manipulation of jesus for the sick sake of - new born - christians

  64. they are the real new born christian fascist angels and servants of k.k.k. hell's angels dump(s) : addicted

  65. You know, I don't think they're all that bad - think of the correction rapists in 3rd world countries, think of the KKK. These people may be first class a--holes, but they don't make any physical attacks. And it's much easier not to take offense since everyone knows the flawed state of their moral logic.

  66. I'm slightly confused, but whenever I see religion at the heart of debate vs. science/evolution/morality, it's always Christianity that's at the spotlight? Religion includes Buddhism, Judaism, Islam, etc., but I have yet to see a documentary condemning their followers.

    I know about Muslim extremism, I'm talking about

    Is it just hardcore Christian extremists that give religion such a bad name, or do other religions flaunt their ideals/doctrines?

    1. Christians make up the majority in the U.S. and in Europe. So this is why you mostly see Christianity at the "spotlight".

    2. freakin' out on crap as the arabs do : it will be a great bless when they get rid of each other

  67. Considering myself Christian, I am making these points to fellow Christians, and I would prefer that Atheists would be polite enough not to call me names and ridicule my beliefs.

    I will never understand how any so-called Christian can call Jewish people "Christ killers."
    1. Jesus died 2000 years ago (give or take a couple of decades). NO ONE alive now was there, no one alive now was involved.
    2. Jesus himself knew that it was all part of THE PLAN.
    3. If Jesus hadn't died, he would not have been able to rise from the dead, and if Jesus did not die to pay the price for our sins as we have been taught, we would not have this saving grace.
    4. Even if someone claims that Jesus was not Jewish because he was God, he was certainly raised in the Jewish faith, his first followers were Jewish, and the first Christians, gathered at Pentecost were predominantly (if not all) Jewish.

    With Louis being a non-believer, he couldn't have thought to ask them how they reconcile this.

    At one point Shirley says, "They're going to hell and there's nothing they can do about it." Of course there is. Calling themselves Christians, they should know that sinners can repent of their sins and be saved. They should know that their salvation is not based on their works. Instead of rejoicing that people die, they should, in fact, be in misery that there are so many "lost souls" that they are doing NOTHING to save.

    I am not a "shove it down your throat" type of Christian. Living one's life as an example is much more important to me. I don't think they are living their lives as Jesus would have them. Jesus did not condemn the adulteress about to be stoned. (By the way, why didn't they stone the men who were also in an adulteress situation?) After basically shaming the people who wanted to stone her, they had a little chat. He didn't condemn the woman at the well for having multiple husbands, they had a little chat. He didn't condemn Zachias, they had a little chat.

    As a matter of fact, the only people I recall his condemning were some of the religious leaders of the day who had it all wrong. I suspect that, although I realize he is coming back to hand out justice, in the meantime he would condemn these people for getting it all wrong.

    1. Louis actually did point out the Jesus was Jewish in the first documentary.

    2. read theosophy on this ....

      the bible and the quran are to be compared with the soldier's

    3. You make very good points bggleep. Although I do think that alot of what they are preaching is true to gods word they are going about it in a very un-christian like manner. I believe in doing what you had mentioned and leading by example. Chastising people profusely seems rather counterproductive to me.

      "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." (NIV, John 13:34-35)

  68. I can't watch this for an hour. Sorry,. The children should have been taken away from the family a long time ago. mental abuse!

    1. this is - because of the freedom - in america and this is spreading over the world now .... this is not new to the dutchies - the netherlands and south-africa .... and america of course ....

  69. This is freaking retarted

  70. I remember hearing about Snyder v Phelps back in March, and I just never go around to watching this. Now that I did, I've got some thoughts on this actually.
    1.) It really bothers me that the two young women who left (Libbie and Lauren, if I remember correctly) only left because of dire circumstances (Lauren was told explicitly that she was being kicked out while Libbie was harassed for *gasp* wearing bikinis). So if I can assume correctly, none of them would have left the group of their own accord, as in, discovering in themselves what "mainstream society", if you will, believes to be right. And even now, it seems to me that they're more just pissed and sad at the fact they broke off from their families than well, actually disbelieving what they originally believed in. What bothers me more is that neither of them bothered apologizing for the amount of pain and suffering they caused to families over the years that they were in the Church and had picketed at those people's funerals. It's easy to excuse your own behavior as "I was brainwashed" but to be that forgetful? Seems a bit heartless. I'm terrifically glad that they got the strength to walk away just like that, but somehow that they never ever thought about repenting just bugs me.

    2.) Shirley, and the rest of this church, seems primarily motivated by fear. The feeling that I was getting from the general people there was that they were too afraid to go to hell (of burning fire and brimstone, and worms that won't die which eat at your flesh, or w/e the hell it is they quoted, and btw, does that worm thing even exist in the bible?). I'm an atheist so I don't actually know this, but wouldn't God be well, against people who believe just so they can get a free ticket to heaven? I remember distinctly Shirley saying at the end that "the fires of hell are too hot so I"m staying away". You'd think God wouldn't be the evil dictator that Machiavelli described as ruling by fear.

    3.) These people are living in the freaking USA, protected by the 1st amendment? So God hates the very country that allows for people like them to exist, therefore....umm, wouldn't he hate them too? If that's true, then they're probably going to hell as well. And if they argue that they're going to heaven, then the rest of the US, including the gays and Jews, and whomever go to heaven as well. Kind of an illogical argument they're pulling.

    4.) Seems like mostly they're less arguing to prove their points than either a.) repeating what has been taught to them like a mantra, almost brainwashing themselves, or b.) just yelling over people (I'm looking at you, Steve).

    5.) The children of their family have done nothing to deserve this, either this flabbergasting upbringing, or the treatment they receive at the hands of society. In a way, they're just as damaged and really should receive some intensive therapy. However, how much difference would it actually make? Belief is a powerful thing, especially if it's been enforced like this since birth, and to change their thought process, I don't even know if that's possible. Which brings up to the very good question of, what the hell happened to Fred Phelps? He happened to be a very good civil rights lawyer back in the 60's if I remember correctly. How did he change to this bigoted, twisted person who well, kinda hates everybody?

    Okay I"m done w/ the essay lol.

  71. Christianity at its finest.

  72. If you guys hate America so much why don't you move to an isolated island.

    1. is where they came from with their brain sickness and veneric diseases .... nowadays they google on 70%-30%

  73. As retarded as these Church people are, the journalist is sort of a "dick weasel." He comes with a pre-conceived script and do not really interact with the interviewee. His interaction with people in the church feels more like a monologs. I don't need this british journalist to tell me how normal people thinks, I want to know how the church people thinks.

    The idea that everything is gods intention, every death is god's punishment is interesting. It is appealing because of it's simplicity. It is a theory that can't be proven wrong. In fact, every death serves as a confirmation of their faith.

    I personally think this is a great interpretation of Christianity. It solves the problem of why innocent people die and suffer.There are no innocent people. Therefore every death, all suffering, is fair. If god like what we are doing, then people wont die. We avoid the whole "god works in mysterious ways" cop out for Earth Quake kills millions of people, Which really makes no sense. I think this is what is appealing about it. It gives the member who believe it an actual explanation. This is great.

    Thank "GOD" I am an atheists. Or else i would have to see logic in this.

    1. im sure many religious people dont see any 'logic' in this hate group. The New testament doesnt even mention homosexuality. Besides, if there was a god, and he hated 'fags' so much, he wouldnt make some any of them. Would he? I once heard that god makes only the most talented people gay so they wont get bogged down raising families. heheh

  74. The Phelps daughter even speaks with her mothers verbal ques. "Hun". Brainwashing at its finest.

  75. cult, cult, cult, cult, cult, cult,cult!!!!!!!!!!! Those people will be someone's case study very soon I am sure. The spunky leader will die then they will fade away.

  76. crazy bitches. ONLY IN AMERICA (and extreemist middle east) When you see yanks chant U.S.A... sounds similar to Allah AKbar no?. These brainwashed sorry excuses for humans need to be put down before they destroy the planet. Everyone wins, they can go to heaven and we can live a better live on a more peaceful planet.... Agreed?

  77. If only they realized that the people written of in the Bible, the Hebrew people aka Jews, were amongst others actually some of the so called "blacks" that they hate so much. They claim to know the Bible but don't even seem to have the slightest understanding about who is written about in the book.

    They also hate "JEWS" and "BLACKS" and since they are one in the same its almost ironic that together this means they completely hate God's people.

    So since their ignorance has put them in a position of hating the real "Jews", which are God's people might I remind you, I'm sure it will get them that 1st class ticket they so think they will get only the destination is the lake of fire and not the kingdom of heaven.

    The Bible was written in a manner to make sure that people of this sort can't comprehend it to it's full understanding and thus keep there eyes closed to the actual truth it holds.

    Well WBC, close but no cigar I think is the expression that comes to mind. Actually you weren't even close at all. In fact never mind...Shalom

    1. Must have been tired because I thought I saw a shirt that said they hate "blacks" and "jews" both on the same shirt. I apoligize for the mistake.

      In hindsight I recall Fred Phelps did many good things for the civil rights movement so they could not hate "black" people.

      So the reality is they hate the Jewish people which are like Jews but are not actually Jews. I like to describe them as fake Jews but the Bible better calls them the synagogue of satan. Think about it for a second if something is Blue-ish then it really isn't blue.

      At least the WBC knows that the media is bought out hopefully they understand it is the fake jews amongst other satanists that own it.

      WBC also practice some things and have some things from the Bible wrong. They seem to be tricked by the "trinity" from Constantine and a few other things brought about like sunday worship.

      WBC needs to wake up to the real truth set forth in the Bible and understand that God's people are all around and are opressed by theri enemy so they need to now learn this and lift up and assist those who descended from slaves unjustly brought to this nation. That is only one tribe of 12.

      WBC please be the Gentiles which help the true Children of Israel. Maybe in helping Jacob could you survive the oncoming wrath.

    2. There is no "gift of sight" as you have completely missed the fact that the bible was written by man, ignorant at that, as it was penned from stories past down in the Bronze age. It may as well be God's, a God for every ignorant view of the human species for that time. Get with facts of nature & human nature - yes we evolved, yes you have a computer brought to you courtesy of science & the need for our species to learn the truth....There is no God, never was one & as soon as our species resolve that conflict, the better we will be as a united society void of hate & contempt for one another.

      Use your sight to stare off through the night skies & wonder at the vastness of space & the countless other galaxies within your view. We are insignificant in the scheme of things & should be thankfull we are on this planet. No wand weilding image of us clapping his humongous hands & BANG...!!! the Universe... Look at how stupid that sounds, a magic being deciding who lives or dies & gives no rats arse....for we have sinned, repent, rapture, Jesus will return...CRAP!!!

      SHIT Happens!! It's written on a bumber sticker, must be true :P

    3. The Christians are not "opressed" (your spelling) they have all the freedoms that every other religion has. And if you are speaking of the Jews, then nor are they "opressed". They too have equal freedom of their religion. You are playing the classic "my place a oppressed" card. There is no oppression here. Just people with differing beliefs.

  78. Keep on trolling the U.S. you crazy cult !

    1. as in europa and you fools like the netherlands

  79. Isnt god supposed to love everyone? if you are going to follow religion, practice what it teaches.

  80. haha i was laughing my a** off to them performing like cheerleaders, making their own lyrics to lady gaga songs. fKing CLOWNS. its funny because you know they had to listen to the real songs over & over to make their own parodies. O! they listened to a "fag-enabler", goin straight to hell on your crazy train! fools i tell you.

    1. hahahaha...not bad mate. Thats piss funny.
      Love ya work

  81. the most DISGUSTING family in America. god hates gays? no. god hates you. all of you. i've been following the actions of this CULT for years now and they just get worse and worse. like seriously, drink the kool-aid and be done with it. they're so warped and so insane, the only ones i feel bad for are their small children who will grow up with nothing but hate in their hearts. they will never have lives, friends, nothing. just hate. i hope that girl was right and they do get kicked out of this country. i just feel bad for the next country they go to "spread the word" to. but i'm guessing it wont last long, as ppl in other countries will NOT tolerate this family and their disgusting ways. they wouldnt last a day. and i would thank god for that. and if there is a hell, thats definitey where they will be going & i'm sure they'll fit right in.

  82. I cant even begin to rationalize or understand these people actions at all. There ideas and concepts and beliefs are so far out whack its like its a sickness. Obama is the anti-Christ, well f--k me I didn't see that one! and it only took a bunch of mentally ill people to work it out and convince me.

  83. Some of them are nurses. I wonder why, I mean if they think being sick is a judgement from God why go against him and try to make people well? I wouldn't want them to be my nurse, I'd be afraid they'd just let me die by not take care of me properly.


  85. Wow... just... wow. "I am not outcome orientated". Errr - I see "Hell" as quite an outcome. Or is that just me?

    I feel so sorry for them - so so sorry. For the children and for the adults. So brainwashed into something which can only be described as a fairytale. Denying themselves of human emotions. That is not God-like. If there were a God.

    I know they "love" me enough to tell me the "truth", but I'm going to love them enough to tell them that they are lost. So very misguided, without a shred of understanding. Bless them.

    And if any members of the Church happens to read this - then they may feel obliged to tell me I am going to Hell or wish that I could "see the Lord for what he really is" then I ask that you don't. For if this is the truth I want nothing to with your God - I am quite happy to burn for eternity in the hottest part of hell - because Heaven seems like a hateful place. And I wish for you that Heaven is not so full of hatred.


    An Atheist and Proud Bisexual xxx

    1. A piece of dialogue from the book El Club Dumas by Arturo Perez-Reverte: "Sometimes, i think hell is just heaven seen from the other side"
      I'm an atheist too, but if there IS a god... I think i prefer the freedom of hell over the strict regime of heaven! :-D

  86. People and their hurt feelings! Fuk's sakes... I don't understand why the WBC bothers people. Please reply and tell me why they bother/upset you.

  87. They love their first amendment right; so long as it isn't used by family members who might or do in fact defect.

  88. thank you God for allowing me to have the ability to read your word..thank you God for teaching me that in these last days there will be false prophets *WBC*..these people have twisted your words beyond belief but You being God already know what is happening...i am not afraid of the enemy *WBC* matter how much they say that they are teaching these things in Your most precious name i know that they are themselves a form of the antichrist...God please let these people learn how to atleast speak in todays form of spoken language...they dont have to say words like doth and sayeth and all those other forms of language they are using..Heavenly Father are they channeling Shakespeare or You...Thank you for allowing me to have a relationship with you Lord..sincerely your child

  89. I love when he the "tough guy" of the bunch calls Louis a fool because the bible says if you don't believe in the bible then you are a fool. "That is what the BIBLE would say wouldn't it?". These people are morons.

    1. I found that a wee odd, here was this God fearing cocksnap saying how righteous he is but i felt poor ol Louis was getting a bit intimidated by this side show clown, had it been me i would punched that hyprocritical wanker right into his pathetic face

  90. I love these people. I don't like to see their kids suffering socially or their relatives being shunned. What I like is how angry everyone gets at them when all the are doing is trying to make people angry. I want to buy a Westboro Baptist Church T shirt. I don't even mind giving them some of my money-- I do believe in paying for entertainment.

  91. I just watched both Phelps docs back to back, and while I certainly do not agree with their message and the way they go about spreading the message ... I do, however, have to applaud their commitment and consistency of their message and belief system. At a time where religious groups and their leaders are filled with hypocrisy and double standards, these members seem to stick to a consistent message, I can appreciate that. Granted the message is twisted and delusional, the ones that are still around are quite dedicated to it.

    1. Why would you applaud commitment to something so terrible? "Commitment" and "consistency" (which I would argue is not even present here) are not virtues when applied to hate and pain.

  92. It was obvious that those girls had massive crushes on the dutch film makers.

    1. better kick them out WBC They have feelings!

    2. Did you notice that too.....i kind of wondered that myself. I bet ya a pound of goat **** Louis did too, he put that silly cow on the backfoot

  93. This video just confirms what I'v thought for quite some time. Religion is a mental illness and stronger your belief, the crazier you are.

    1. religion isn't a mental illness, however, it is socially constructed

  94. This religion is completely male dominated.

    1. wrong .... it makes jewry very clear : dope booze prostitution

  95. Practice what you preach? Not in their case. Hypocrites- besides other nouns I won't degrade myself by using to describe this cult.

    "Phelps-Roper is the wife of Brent D. Roper, and a mother of 11 children. In a 2007 UK documentary by Welsh personality Keith Allen, in which Phelps-Roper and some of her children agreed to appear, Phelps-Roper is shown admitting on camera that her oldest son was born out of wedlock. Allen found hypocritical Phelps-Roper's vocal condemnation on strangers having sexual congress outside of marriage while she herself was guilty of the same.[8][9] According to Kansas City's The Pitch, Phelps-Roper doesn't deny that her son Sam, who was later adopted by Brent Roper, was born out of wedlock but refuses to reveal the identity of his biological father."

    1. I have to wonder, with the fact of refusing to name the father, if it isn't the Rev. Fred Phelps? Would explain a lot in that weird family wouldn't it.

    2. Well i thought they were all inbred...shit, that would explain a lot

    3. Sorry man, just typed that as well, no intended copy, but it looks that way, Jones type-cult.

  96. Is it just me or were the lady gaga remixes hilarious? I don't know why, but I started laughing uncontrollably every time they showed them singing or dancing. hahahahaha

  97. i don't think i've ever seen crazy like this before. and here i thought that God was love.

  98. Really good! Far too I can't even put a word to what these people are suffering from. If they did not ascribe to all of the most hateful and dark parts of the Bible and then inflict them on others in some hideous ways, I am not sure I would have an issue with them. If this makes sense to them in their lives, fine. Being women haters is nothing new, but the harm they do to others in "God's" name is not something palatable for me....very much worth watching. Love this guy's stuff!

  99. Please take the following into careful consideration...
    JESUS: “Souls (still reject me and) perish in spite of my bitter Passion.  I am giving them the the last hope of salvation, that is, recourse to My Mercy.  Blood and water issued forth from the very depths of My tender mercy when My agonized Heart was opened by a lance on the Cross.  These rays shield souls from the wrath of My Father.  Happy is the one who will dwell in their shelter, for the just hand of God shall not lay hold of him. The flames of Mercy consume Me and I desire to pour them out upon human souls. The greatest sinner has the greatest right to have hope in My Mercy. The soul which invokes My Mercy brings Me untold delight. I grant it graces beyond its expectations. I cannot punish a soul which has recourse to My pity and compassion even though it be the greatest sinner . . . In My unfathomable and inscrutable mercy, I seek to justify it. The greater the misery, the stronger the right to My Mercy. Summon all souls to confidence in the incomprehensible abyss of My Mercy, for I desire to save all. The well of Mercy was opened wide with a lance on the cross for all souls. I do not exclude anyone. However, he who does not want to pass through the gates of mercy, will have to pass through the gates of justice. If they will not adore My mercy, the unrepentant will perish for all eternity. I do not want to punish aching mankind, but I desire to heal it, pressing it to My Merciful Heart. I use punishment when they themselves force Me to do so; My hand is reluctant to take hold of the sword of justice. Before the Day of Justice I am sending the Day of Mercy."

  100. as I watch them I can feel their doubt, their uneasiness and convicted conscience tells them they're wrong but the publicity empowers them, the pride they say they don't have. I pray for them, especially the girl who cried and Louie who chooses to refuse God.

  101. as I watch them I can feel their doubt, their uneasiness and convicted conscience tells them they're wrong but the publicity empowers them, the pride they say they don't have. I pray for them, especially the girl who cried and Louie who chooses to refuse God.

  102. just americas most hatted family... really isn't that a bit of an understatement for these scripture twisting god fearing anti-semetic homophobic illogical over active sons of bitches! :) and that asian duud in the church was totally gay.

  103. Its funny because the main narrator knows that they're completely insane.

  104. I in no way condone these people or any of their views.God has nothing to do with religion. Religion is man made and God has no logic...God simply is. I did not believe in God for a long time...a near death experience in an emergency room saved my life.See, no logic! I speak the truth when I say there is something else and it is beautiful and that is the God I pray to.

  105. Achems Razor- everytime I view a documentary on religion or God..there you are going on and on. You protest too much.We all get it, religious people are stupid,God isn't real and you are the smartest human being on Earth.You win buddy and now you can relax...unless you are wrong.Nah,you are way too smart for that! Jeez...give it a rest.

    1. The only time I will give it a rest, is when the religee's give it a rest, they are on every science doc. So is there a reason that I cannot reciprocate??

    2. If you are right and you know you are right you wouldn't need to spend so much time convincing others you are right. Just a silly little theory but I am obviously wrong so ...knock yourself out.I have no religion and I agree that most religions are silly.I also believe in something greater than myself which I call God.

    3. I can't think of a reason you cannot but i sure can think of many reasons people would benefit if you didn't always repeat your dissagreements.
      I for one benefit a lot more from your positive and smart involvement in science docs than your negative one in religious docs. And you often use science docs to emphasize your dissagreements further more, don't lose opportunies to rally for the good when you can, in the end that's what count, that's what proves your POINT on the i.


    4. @Azilda:

      I do not class my comments as negative on the religious docs.
      Maybe just negative to the religee's, on all the fairy tales they always try to spew.

      Ten to one, they may seem like positive comments to the ones who do not believe in all the religious "mumbo-jumbo!"

      Science rules!

      I'm Just sayin!

  106. Achems Razor- everytime I view a documentary on religion or God..there you are going on and on. You protest too much.We all get it, religious people are stupid,God isn't real and you are the smartest human being on Earth.You win buddy and now you can relax...unless you are wrong.Nah,you are way too smart for that! Jeez...give it a rest.

  107. There is no sickness worse than Religious fundamentalism. The bad part is, these dumb s***s teach this CRAP to their children and it continues. They "think" they're so smart, and yet they are just the opposite. "Judge not" and yet that is exactly what they do.

  108. <<<< shudders...I saw the first one years ago...Laughed my ass off and shook my head at the same time. I don't have time to get into a descriptive essay but in years of watching and researching cults, these people have that empty, almost scary look in their eyes..Sad little lambs..

  109. Religion is a disease, a virus of the mind, as the WBC so amply portray.

    Good news is that the Christian religion is dropping in the states, but not fast enough, big Pharma should market an anti-religious pill, to see if they can cure the bastards!

    1. Ah, yes! But Christianity is still GROWING world-wide. I live in the Philippines where it's growing rapidly, and I'm singing at a crusade on Wednesday, in fact. We do medical and feeding missions too. Oh, and our next door neighbor (not the pot smoker) is a charismatic church in fact. We enjoy listening to them spread that "virus" until late at night sometimes.

      Peace to you!

    2. Ah, yes the Philippines, which is well know for its loony religious fervour that the Christians have managed to instill, as in crucifying your self with real nails, not once but 13 consecutive times, and wearing crowns of thorns that draw blood, self flagellation and other idiotic practices.

      Hope you do not practise such!

    3. Religions are the reasons why finding what GOD is is slowed down, but it seems to be a necessary process. For all solutions one had to go towards the two opposite limits in order to find the middle.

    4. I've only seen live crucifixions here in the news; I'm not too fond of the real crucifixion stuff. That seems A LOT overboard to me. You can show God your devotion with your life, and replicating His death is not needed in my opinion.

      They have the festival of the Black Nazarene too, where a 400 year old statue that survived burning (and is now black as coal) is carried down town and thousands try to touch it for good luck every year, and often get sent to hospital trying. No, not into that, thank you very much!

  110. I live in Jerusalem and I just cant wait...

  111. Is it just me? Or is everything they said contradicting?

  112. there is only one problem that i have.the Bible says to keep the commandments,if you are going to church on Sunday,a pagan holiday guess what you are breaking the forth commandment and keeping the other beasts commandment,Rome.deception everywhere-test the spirits to see if its the truth.

  113. I feel a certain sadness for all of them.

  114. These people are a prime example of what religion does to people. Here in the UK they would rightly be sectioned under the mental health act & social services would step in & take the children into care. These people should be sterilised.

    1. Actually, I also saw a report that said that "faith" was one of five many factors in the "happiness" index along with a social network of trusted family/friends, fulfilling life purpose, good health, and a feeling of autonomous self-determination in life. Likewise I read an article that said that people that had a "faith" of one kind or another generally drank less, had less vices, had better menal health overall, and had a slightly longer lifespan. God's worked for me! And I would dare say few are as vitrolic as this bunch, including 99.99% of all the Christians I know.

    2. In my opinion the good part of believing in God for many, is how it pushes one to measure her/himself against it's own moralistic perception.
      Where i see it falsed, is in the description of "who what where how" this GOD thing is. To be it has to be.
      If you find it anywhere outside of you, i think it is because you are not looking in the right direction.
      It is energetic, look for it in your personal energy. It is likely to be found there first.

    3. Az, I think I would be very dissappointed if there wasn't anything greater in my life than what's inside me. I'm going through a midlife crisis in fact; not so thrilled about any "personal energy" I might have untapped---nowhere to turn to but God who knows and cares. But when all is said and done, I like you. You're hard to "quantify" into one type of person or another.

      Peace to you.

      You can call me Chas--but only you! :-)

    4. Howdy, Chas,??
      I sort of go along with AZ, there is no gods outside of you, only in your mind, no invisible gods floating somewhere in the clouds, or the far reaches of the cosmos, there is just you, that does have a certain power from the thoughts in your mind, but that won't materialize any white bearded gods as you religee's are so prone to envision.

      In your image? How do you know could not be some other sentient beings in the cosmos that are not carbon based that think the same thing?

    5. Everything that is outside of you is really inside of you, there can't be more and if so it instantly is inside of you. What is inside of Achems or i is also inside of you. What more do you want? lol
      Once we apprehend the real meaning of that, we will harmonize like an orchestra.

    6. To me, attitudes and statements like this are far more judgemental and insane than anything the Phelps' say. At least they believe in freedom of choice. They do not care what you believe, but they believe they have been instructed to spread a message and they are doing it. They are not trying to have your children taken from you and have you sterilized for your disbelief. They may celebrate your death, but they do not persue killing you. If your statement is truely reflective of the UK's attitudes, then I find that very sad. It's a little ironic to me that you chose a skull and crossbones as your avatar lol.

    7. these people don't believe in freedom of choice or any other of your freedoms. they want their freedoms at the expense of others. they promote violence and intolerance. you may say that "They are not trying to have your children taken from you and have you sterilized for your disbelief." but they celebrate their leader (god) killing homosexuals, soldiers and so on. and g4ry's statements are reflective of the attitude of the UK they have been banned and in Canada also. now i believe in peoples freedoms even if i do not agree with the message but i also believe their freedom to spread hate ends where a persons freedom to mourn starts. their actions are designed to make money (lawsuits). not only do they get payments when they "push" someone to attack them but they also sue for court costs (legal fees) and they themselves are the lawyers. in a lot of cases the legal fees are higher then the restitution they are awarded. many religions are anti homosexual and share some of the same beliefs of this church (cult) but these people (wbc) design their expressions of their beliefs to gain maximum attention and cause maximum disruption in order to get money. their greed directs their actions not their faith. in a lot of cases they know little or nothing about the person they are protesting only the attention the protest will garner.

    8. brilliant i'll phone social services. but seriously could you ever imagine this being allowed to happen in england, normal people would kick off. i agree that in a democracy everyone has a right to their beliefs and the open right to voice that belief, that is the cornerstone of of our society, however the indoctrination of children into what can only be described as a dangerous rhetoric is abhorrent on the most basic human level

  115. As the documentary pointed out, they are losing a lot of members. I find this very encouraging. If they actually try to carry out their plan of moving to Jerusalem and converting 144,000 Jews to their cause, they will have a very rude and shocking awakening. It would almost certainly turn out to be a suicidal mission.

    One thing I have yet to hear from any theist is any compelling justification for why the particular holy book they happen to believe in is any more likely to be the infallible word of God than any one else's holy book.

    1. Eventually they will all die out as I dont' think they are gaining members in the church except for their own kids. They'll never let that Asian guy from San Fan join the church--I really felt sorry for him.

      And you're right! NO WAY could they go to Isreal. Immigrants have to be "Jewish" by blood for one thing, and then secondly, they can't be "Chrsitian" and immigrate to Isreal, even if they are Jewish by blood. I know that for a fact.

  116. Since these people claim to be scriptural "experts", I wonder what their view is on Jesus' teachings about the good Samaritan--an inference to the possibility that good people are not just limited to a single faith. Samaritans were considered to be heretics by the Jewish mainstream of that time...and yet Jesus used this story to show that people of a different faith were capable of doing things that the "chosen" people should not only respect, but perhaps even emulate.

    This whole documentary just solidifies my conviction that any religion which espouses blind faith, as interpreted by a human "prophet" or "representative of God", can be a very dangerous thing. What motivated the malevolent forces involved in 9/11 and the Oklahoma City bombings? Fortunately, Westboro Baptist does not promote violent actions (at least now), but their funeral picketings and other events are a sort of emotional terrorism, which they can only get away with due to the liberal, free-thinking values that our founding fathers instilled in our laws of the land.

    I, for one, choose science and reason over blind faith in an unprovable testimony.

  117. You WANT to give them attention... fuelling the fire or not. They are not a bunch playground bullies wanting attention. These guys are hardcore religious nutjobs out to convert people. Giving them attention shows other people what harm these people are doing and this results open opposition... Ultimately, if you give them enough exposure, everyone will despise them so much they will want them silenced. Evidently, that's exactly what's happening, too.

  118. @az
    first you may be right that giving them attention is fueling their fire. and the attention is exactly what they want. but ignoring them might not make them go away.they are attention seekers an if their current actions don't get them the desired attention they will most likely get more extreme. i am sure you could site instances that ignoring groups like this makes them go away and i can site examples of the opposite. holding peoples curiosity and/or hate for these people responsible (even partly) for the actions of this cult is like holding an onlooker responsible for a car crash we may know better but we still look. next i know that the question was directed at achems and he is more then capable of answering for himself , but my two cents anyway. the "miracle" that we are is a loaded question. is assumes that i look at us as a miracle and i disagree. we are a collection of atoms (the same atoms that make up everything) arranged in an order that makes us. nothing more. now i am sure that you can claim that our specific order of atoms is unlikely (or impossible) to arise by chance and my answer is it has nothing to do with chance and the exact arrangement of atoms in everything (living or not) is unlikely if left only to chance. now i know that my answer lacks clarity and proof and i would certainly be willing to discuss in more depth but this particular thread is not about these questions. if you would like to ask that question on a more appropriate doc i am willing to answer in more detail. i feel that the back and forth will be long and out of respect for those who don't want to read our posts on an unrelated subject we should not have this discussion here

    1. I agree, the "primacy of consciousness" doc. I suggest, would be the more appropriate one to discuss the miracle, or not, of "I"

    2. I agree with Achems, and i did enjoy "Primacy of Conciousness" because it talks about what's off the table but near the edge still!
      (in reference to one of my past comment)

    3. I checked in my French understanding of my question and came to realize that instead of the word miracle, i should have used the word phenomenon.
      az frenchy

  119. this is child abuse.
    All children should have the right to independant thought and decisions. The attentntion given to these people can be harmfull as well, people might get to thinking that they portay some sort of majority. When reality not.

  120. How a funny bunch we are! A small group of antagonists take stage on a doc and here comes the mass with 552 comments on the first doc and already 80 here after one day. I bet people can't wait to have #3 come out...hey may be the little boy will be arrested smoking pot when he is 14, or may be the girl with the cleavage will get pregnant by an old rich guy and give birth to a deformed child, or may be the screaming lady will have a cancer, or may be the town will revolt against them and burn their houses...We can't wait to see what bad will come to them, is that it?
    I say the more we pay attention the more this case takes center stage. TDF is followed by 75000 people, we are sending a message of what is interesting and what is not...and apparently we think as a GROUP that this is SUPER!

    1. Right!..Wasn't it you on "The most hated family in America" Doc. that said..."I take the liberty to invite people to give their wit bits on this...this doc is #7 in the most in the most discussed could take first position. This would give a pretty good idea of WHO your audience really is. The Most Hated Family in America would sure have something interesting to read when they get tired of reading the bible!"

    2. You are right. I am caught in my own fishy net.

      The comment was made in reference to a previous question addressed to you and others: "You guys have made clear what you don't believe in, in many of your comments on many docs concerning religion and faith. I would like to read what you make of the miracle that you are, that we all are. What is your fundamental "truth"? Have you found something you maintain as a principle?"
      I was suggesting to turn this popular forum into a positive message instead of their hatred.
      But yes any attention is just fuel for them.
      So i rest my case...
      thank you for reflecting my error.

  121. I feel so bad for the children being brainwashed in this cult....

  122. I'd like to say that people like this especially the film maker guy in the beginning should be put down. In all good conscience I can't because that would make me a monster like all of thee adults in this cult.

  123. Rock on, brother. I never understood the logic in religion, which explains why I'm an atheist.

  124. And what about their women in shirts with so much cleavage hanging out? BAD people.

  125. For not liking 'the world',looking at their homes and listening to them-they sure own a lot of worldly things. Obviously they will be in the 'hottest; part of hell.They seem to believe only THEY are correct.What wackos.

  126. Speaking from extensive belief and faith myself. I'm very sure God is not pleased with such actions in the name of God. There is a grain of truth in what they are saying that God wants us to live holy lives, but there is a whole lot of loveless evil as well.

  127. "Thank God for cancer"?!? I've known many good Christian men (one) and women (including my beloved mother) that had breast cancer. It's not a "God smack!" It's something that just happens sometimes. God HEALED my mom of cancer, He didn't "punish' her with it.

  128. Whackjobs! Nice lookin' girls though.

    1. I thought it was just me, but almost all of those girls were hot. Thats random. Is that considered a curse or a blessing from God? Now they have to beat off the boys.

  129. I think they tore the page out of the Bible that says to love their neighbor.

    1. They are quite misguided. Whether it be through fear or ignorance they have done what many in the past and present have done with faith. They have turned it onto a tool of separation and hatred.
      As a student of theology I am sure that you look to the themes withing the subtext of religious beliefs and see the underpinning theories and guides for life. That, In my opinion is the only true purpose to religion. Just a book of wisdom in the same way as the writings of great philosophers through the ages. These people are not students of the philosophy they are preachers of fear.

    2. You are exactly right. They use a religious belief as a club to rationalize their intolerance. They want to carve a special niche for themselves. A niche that places them in a favored position on earth and in heaven. It makes them special. Neo-Nazi skinheads do the same thing and quite often they are not at all religious. Eliminating religion will not rid us of intolerance. It will just refocus this unfortunate aspect of human behavior.

    3. Any belief system that discourages open, rational thought should be viewed with caution...whether it be Westboro Baptists, Wahhabists, or pseudo-Darwinists (Nazis)

  130. it's kinda gotten boring and sad one takes them seriously, cept for the ones they breed i guess

    but hey he's a great filmmaker, good for him!


    Rev. Jim Jones , David Koresh, Adoph Hitler = Would be Proud of wbc

  132. It is so sad and disturbing to see how something as silly as religion can dehumanize its followers, creating egotistical monsters.
    All because of fear.

  133. if it wasn't for that book, oh what's it know the one...oh yeah, The Bible, these would just be a bunch of hate filled crazy people who would be locked up in a jail or asylum by now.

    1. That's uncalled for. The Bible is life itself, but it does pronounce woe to those that use it and "twist" it to their own destruction.

    2. Hey man, the bible is just a book, just like any other. I reckon Hello magazine or some other crap probably outsells it these days. It's not the "word of Gawd" any more than the phone book is. Although there are some nice ideas in the new testament, like "love thy neighbour" or "God is Love". I wonder why all the whackjobs seem to love all the fire and brimstone stuff?

    3. Come on man, the Bible is a book, just like any other. I do like some of the ideas in the New Testament though, you know, love thy neighbour and stuff like that.

    4. The bible is not life itself, but wait!- maybe you are right? If you read the old testament of all the atrocities permitted, condoned and done by your warrior king of the mountain god.

      No matter how much you apologetics apologize and try to "twist"!! the OT bible as a harbinger of good dead's, will never work, can't change the words as they are written, if you do then you are a heretic. For all the atrocious and vile acts of the WBC, at least they are not heretics in the land of your Christian fairy tales.

    5. I hope you're just being facetious. I would rather be in a country that allows people the freedom to practice an irrational, scripture-based faith (and allows us to criticize them in return) than be living in a...say...North Korea.

      As deplorable as their activities are, the Phelpsists seem to know and remain within their legal limits...they're a family of lawyers, after all. They should just be kindly reminded that it's due to foresight of our mostly SECULAR forefathers that the principle of separation of church and state is what led to their freedom to spew their filth.

  134. Fred Phelps has been and will always be a media whore. Block him from the media and he give up and moves on.

  135. Obama is The Beast spoken of in the Book Of Revelation
    Hmm are they not one President late in making this declaration? lol
    Havent seen this doc yet but I am looking forward to it, I get a sick type of entertainment out of religious fanatics getting called out on their bullshit beliefs and Louis has the ability to enrage people when the mood strikes him.

    1. I believe that they feel that Obama fits the description better for many reasons. 1) Unlike Bush, Obama has been hailed around the globe as some sort of golden child. 2) Obama represents a more liberal ideal that embraces things that conservatives do not.

    2. I am not saying Obama is doing a great or is near the savior the media made him out to be. But good old George was in charge during 911 and there are many questions about what actually happened there, he is responsible for lying about WMD and starting 2 wars plus the economy went down the toilet under his watch so he deserves to be mentioned when speaking about "the Beast". Also it was just an offhand comment made not with tongue in cheek but it's intent was one of some sort of humour

  136. People will find all kinds of reasons to hate. It has nothing to do with a belief in a God. Hatred, quite often, comes from self loathing. If I can convince myself that someone else is more despicable than I am, then my self esteem is artificially raised to a higher level.

  137. There are 2.1 billion Christians in the world. There are 30 - 40 members in this church. Stating that this is perfect example of what Christians are and why they are bad. If one can freely judge a huge population by the actions of such a small percentage then most likely all racism, sexism and homophobia is justified as well. I don't personally feel that way, and I find the Phelps to be annoying, but if we can accept them as the representative standard for all Christians my above statement would be true. Most of you who have commented here would flip right out if I were to state that all dark skinned people are bad because X percentage of them have raped or murdered. You would get pissed if I said all women are lesser than men because X percentage do not choose to use their education and to latch on to a rich man. I could go on and on with example but you folks on here are smart so you get what I am saying already. You can't claim to be pro equality and pro humanity etc. when you are comfortable condemning entire religious groups and or nations for the actions of a fraction of a percent of their population.

    1. Yes, I do blame all the 2.1 billion Christians for allowing such adverse and un-appropriate behaviour in their flock. As I blame the mostly religious govment, the religious empire, for allowing the WBC to be in existence and preaching all their hate and fear mongering for monetary gain, since most of them are laywers.

    2. Ahh Achems; I can always expect solid response from you. Do you not think that Most of those 2.1 billion do condemn these people? However, in example, the majority of Muslim believers do not outwardly pursue the condemnation of terror groups and extreemists amoungst their people. Women are not rising up en'mass to put down the Linsay Lohans and Paris Hiltons of the world. All definable groups of people will invarriably have a percentage of their people be totally unacceptable in their beliefs and their behavior. In any race, creed, gender, or nationality one could easily find thirty - forty individuals per 2 billion who are less than admirable to say the least. Therefore any and all bias and persecution is justified by your standards. You have just chosen a different target for your judgement and anger than the Phelps' themselves. I am sure even as a neutral outsider someone could find an equal percentage of homosexuals who display a loatheable personality. Does that mean that it is OK for the Phelps' to chastize and hate all homosexuals? I respect you greatly Achems, you are an intellegent and thinking man. Do you not see that hypocracy?
      It is not the place of government in any way to put an end to the existance of any idea no matter who or how many people disagree. What you are asking for there is a reversal of the dark ages. You are stating that outright persecution of ideals is ok as long as that persecution favors your beliefs. That is no different that the Religious persecutions of the inquisition or the Holy Roman empire, the crusades and the conqustadores. No person or governing body has the right to controll the beliefs of others, that is the very definition of thought police and persecution. Two ideas that I am sure you do not condone. You as an individual have the right to dislike religion, and to speak out against it. That luxury that privilage is the same one granted to groups such as the WBC to pursue their agenda and beliefs. If you would have their rights abolished so too should yours be, otherwise you are promoting all that you speak against just in a form more favorable to yourself.

    3. So what do you propose Christians do? Or the government? Ban them? Build a fence around their home and isolate them forever? Freedom of speech allows you to say whatever you want, whenever you want. As much as I hate these people, no one can actually say they can't say what they want.

      That's the thing. If you want free speech, you're going to have nuts like these who use it to say stupid crap. It doesn't really matter though, because then again, you have the freedom to ignore them.

    4. In reply to @StillRv:

      All-right, will not try to read more into what you just said, although I could, will just take it at face value.

    5. Yes, "with respect also", my response was solid, and of course I see the (sic) hypocracy, am not exactly mentally challenged.
      Just setting something in motion, planting a seed, albeit it may be like blowing in the wind.

      This concerns all religions that basically only cherry pick what they want to hear from their holy book of terrors concerning their atrocious, vile, jealous, puritanical, warrior king of the mountain type of impotent gods.

      You say "It is not the place of any government in any way to put an end to the (sic) existance of any ideas no matter who or how many people disagree"?
      Tell that to your government who is slowly taking away all your civil liberties.

    6. You are correct in your statement about our governent and the errosion of our civil liberties. Telling them so would do nothing however as they do not give a rats back side what we plebs think. "you can find out whats in the bill when we pass it".
      The country is on a down trend without doubt. But just as in all other countries, some of which are worse off then we, there will come a breaking point and things will change.
      I like your dedication, Achems, you embrace my logical criticism and admit, without shame, that you would indeed be alright with others loosing their way of life to suit that which you hold true. That sir is the most rare form of honesty and deserves respect.

    7. Danm the lack of inflection in the written word. I was not being sarcastic nor fecetious in my last comment to you Achems. I absolutely find it admirable and refreshing when someone is honest and fervent in their beliefs. We live in a world where people are constantly passing off their wants as "for your own good". Just as both political parties in the states are doing every day. (pay us $7.50 in taxes for each pack of smokes you buy because we love your lungs) (The GPS mudule in you cell phone will help us to find you and save you in an emergency) etc. etc.
      It is the nature of man as well as collectives of like minded people to pursue the realization of their ideals. To gain for themselves even at the expense of others. And yet too few care to admit this. Instead they pass themselves off as being somehow more enlightened than others and a crusader for the betterment of all. Your admition is that you are human and that you place your ideals above others and that is honest.

  138. f***ing sick man!! these people are out of their incest minds!! i dont believe in 2012 the way media brings it but if im wrong and it does happen...i hope those people are the 1st to go and very slowly and painfull...i'm ashamed to share the same color of skin with those people and im ashamed of being human now....

  139. LOL.. and people are afraid of Al-Qaeda...

    These people are only exaggerating a lot of points that a lot of Americans on the right are thinking.

    They may seem extreme to most people but they are one notch up from the middle America that voted Bush in.

    You can see and understand now how slavery was justified and how the native Americans were nearly wiped out.

    for a bunch of girls who are supposed to be chastised Ive never seen so much sexual tension!

    1. I've never read anything so notch up from Bush and middle America?!!!!! HA HA HA!!!! Come on! This is nothing more than a modern day version of the Madelyn Murry O'Hare family of the 60s and 70s....only more extreme for these more extreme times. All things are relative. They are nothing more than an example of an extremist cult that has been successful capturing the attention of the lamestream media for their 15 minutes of fame.

    2. The day I see video footage of the Phelps' decapitating their neighbors for not agreeing with them I'll find you less stupid.
      Slavery was justified? Yes for a time and by a minority. It also was condemned and abolished by others who were also "Americans" whats your point?
      Just because you were staring at the younger ladies cleavage during the doc. does not indicate sexual tension for anyone but you.

    3. Please put these words in any order: Virtuous and chastised and cleavage.

      The questions you ask have more holes in them then the answer you gave or any answer you could want.

      I think just like the Phelps you have the same end game.

    4. Well @Far; For one showing a modest amount of cleavage in a tank top is not exactly whorish. If you think so you are closer in your mind set to the Phelps' than I am.
      Also there are no holes in my statement. Some americans
      were pro slavery, some were not. Picking which side of that argument you find to be the negative one and applying it to everyone is absolutely profoundly moronic. It is like saying 10% of the people here like tunafish the other 90% prefer egg salad. This is one tunna loving group!!
      As to end game I have none. I have no religious denomination no political affiliation and no agenda outside of living my life as I see fit. And here ya go. Even virtuous and chastized women have cleavage.

    5. As bad as the Phelps are...they aren't bombing buildings. How can you even compare them to a terrorist group?

    6. @far - I also thought the same thing about the young women. And I am female!

  140. There is a wonderful story in a novel by a woman chinese writer about the missionaries who came to china during the early part of the 20th century. I can't remember the writer or the name of the book but one section in that book was about a christian missionary preaching away spouting hellfire and damnation to a church full of chinese people. As some in the congregation began leaving before said preacher finished and old chinese woman stood up and spoke to the people and said ... something along these lines ... Please don't leave. This man has come all this way to save his soul. We should help him!
    The moral of that story is helping others has greater depth than these types of christians understand.

  141. What can one say...?

  142. What a truely splendid example of everything that is nasty, corrupt and sick concerning America and it's collapsing empire. Rotten from the inside out.

    1. Why is it that this tiny group represents America? The majority of Americans abhor this behavior and yet they can't seem to be able to represent the positive side of a nation. Could it be that you are looking at this issue through an Anti-American filter?

  143. So their god is jealous, angry, genocidal, and an egomaniac? Why worship a god like that anyway? No thanks, I prefer non-existence.

    Bunch of loons.

  144. This is repugnant beyond what words can describe. Exactly the reason why the world is a living hell. This mentality is insipid and insidious to the utmost and unfortunately present on every level of society in every corner of this planet.

    A perfect example of how imperfect nature is and how vulnerable and susceptible the human mind is on every level.

    What's infuriating is that an intelligent fact based discussion, argument, debate can't exist with human beings like these. The circular argument automatically rules out any progress in any direction, except of course around the bend.

    1. What percentage of our society agrees and sympathizes with ideal of this nature and how far are they willing to go to defend these beliefs?

    2. What percentage of these people know any facts about anything?

    3. How much fear do you have to have to justify seeing the world and everything in it in this way?

    1. I've learnt never to get into a 'logical' discussion with a religiolite. The moment I hear 'not believing in God/jesus = you're going to hell', that's when it's time to shutdown the conversation. I don't respond with questions. I just simply reply,

      "if you say so"

      ...I've managed to avoid many nose bleeds ever since.

    2. Why, does it stop you punching them?

    3. Belief in a God does not involve logic. It is a matter of faith. With faith, logic is irrelevant. With logic, faith is unnecessary.

  145. religion = brainwash

    1. Religion can equal brainwash. One can choose to believe in a God. It may not be logical but it is still choice. It is arrogance to suppose that all the billions of religious people in the world are brainwashed but you're not.

    2. Well then, I am an arrogant mother f******! am not brainwashed, but it was tried, believe me! (LOL)

    3. I respect beliefs, I don't care if you believe in aliens, in god, in elvis.. I do not have any respect for organized religious faith.. people following other people blindly because of something someone interpreted THEIR way and chose to dispense it as truth..Deep down inside we are all brainwashed to a certain extent, i just believe that religious people are on the deeper end of that. When believing in Santa Clause, a fat man that lives in the north pole, that has a toy factory full of elves and goes around the world in one night in his flying sled is ridiculous, YET believing in an invisible man in the sky that knows everything, that loves you but if you don't follow his rules he condemns you to eternity in flames is considered real.. repeat after me brain-wash..
      Think about this, if you talk to "god" you are praying, if "god" talks to you, you are schitzo.
      I rest my case..

    4. @ Achems and bleachers.
      I can't reply the way I'd like but I would like to say that I was brought up in a religious home. Church twice on Sunday, private Christian school, young peoples society, Christian cadets, catechism, prayer before each meal, Bible reading and prayer after each meal; I got the full treatment. When it was apparent that it didn't take, most of those in the church showed only concern. They really believe that I am going to burn forever in hell and it saddens them. Some are angry a-holes but most are just nice people. Besides, I've met angry a-holes and who aren't religious. If a person truly believes that someone is burning in hell forever, I would hope they would be concerned. I may think they're deluded but I still appreciate that the thought would upset them. I can see how some would just accept the teaching without question but that is as much their fault as it is the person who does the teaching. As long as most show respect for my beliefs, they can believe want they want.

    5. Am not trying to convert anyone to atheism or anything else.
      As long as the believers in "whatever" do not push their beliefs on other people, could not care less, does not matter to me. You did not push anything religious, and I have not pursued as such with you.

      Will only pursue those that push their religions, or broad statements that basically encompass all non-religious.

      And no, am not brainwashed into anything, I usually talk only about science and even then my views will change with new paradigms because science is not stagnant/fixed.

    6. @ Achems Razor
      The reason that the religious teaching didn't take was my interest in science. Science that was introduced to me in that Christian school. It seems that while they were trying to brainwash me they also gave me the tools to resist it. Any struggle I had with those religious beliefs were more of a personal nature than one I had with those Christians. At least I was never forced to believe something that I was not prepared to believe. A religion does not have to be stagnant however. I know people who have studied religious ideas all their lives and have changed the basis ideals of their faith when presented with new facts and ideas. Unfortunately, we only hear about the uneducated loogans, who use religion as a means of acquiring self esteem.

    7. Understand what you are saying, but what "new" facts and ideas are you referring to? All the religious have are the bibles, at least the ones they have to follow, or are classed as heretics.

      To me creationists/religious beliefs are conclusions fixed in stone.
      A creationist is not free to alter their beliefs should the evidence contradict them, instead they make up fanciful tales, such as a "water vapour canopy" surrounding the earth prior to the great flood, the creation of starlight in transit, and the hydrological sorting of fossils during the great flood. Unless I missed something? Maybe the dead sea scrolls?

    8. I'm referring to scientific facts. There are, of course, dogmatic creationists. They are the stagnant zealots that we both dislike. There are also, the ones who have started to say that the Biblical creation story is a metaphor. Scientific observations have shown that this type of creation is illogical and can't be believed as it is written. Science has forced them to rethink their religious beliefs and I know those who believe that the Bible should be read as a book of inspiration not fact. They still have a belief in God, but they realize that the Bible was written by an ancient people who could not have had the information to understand the science that we now accept as fact. They have tried to understand their religion so that it includes this science. They are not dogmatic. They realize that new knowledge must bring new ideas. But we never hear about them. We only hear about the cuckoos.

  146. It is funny that their argument is logical!

    1. too bad logical does not automatically equal truth

    2. Logic, like math, depends on the input being accurate and correct. If I ask you to calculate how much pizza to order for dinner, but I give you the wrong number of people staying for dinner, then your order will most likely be too much or too little.

      If you meant what you said as a joke... then I'm sorry... tone gets lost on text =P
      But still I wanted to express this point for everyone to read just in case.

    3. I should have said theirs is more logical than any other Christian denomination's argument.

      If God is in charge of everything, then when people die horrific deaths, followers should be happy to see their leader's powers displayed.

    4. God may be in charge but the Bible teaches us that humans have been given freedom of choice. That includes the freedom to make bad decisions. Christianity actually teaches that we answer for our wrong doing after we die, not by retribution when we are alive. That would mean no good person would have bad luck and good fortune would follow them always. That would also allow for any one to judge someone else any time something negative happened in their lives.
      I don't believe in any of this stuff but if you insist on being Christian, at least know the theology of your religion.

    5. Hey Jack 1952!
      You seem to be a reasonable person who gives each comment some thought. Nice to see amongst some of the more one eyed comments, so thanks!
      I just wanted to add to the conversation in general.
      The scriptures, from my reading of them, actually teach that the wages of sin is death. In other words, when one dies the sins are cancelled out. What sin has earnt you is death & when it happens, the debt is paid, so to speak.

      The Christian Greek Scriptures don't teach anything at all about a firey "Hell" being a place of everlasting torment.

      The Christian Greek Scriptures teach that evil people will be destroyed as one gets rid of garbage. "Gehena" was the local Jerusalem dump & that was used by Jesus as a metaphor to explain the final judgement. IE: destroyed completely, never to be seen again ..... not tortured.

      What kind of sick mind comes up with a supposed loving father torturing eternally all those who don't obey him?

      That has to be a human concept!!

      Actually it is an adaptation of some Babylonian & Assyrian beliefs that served well to keep the people in line back then.

      It still works well for those who choose to believe it hey?

      Anyway Jack, thanks for the open mind. Stay well!

  147. religion is destroying human spirituality on so many levels

  148. Hate and delusion to this extent is comical. Oh what a world if we just kept God out of the equation.

    1. I do not think hate like this is comical when it causes so much pain to soldier's families for instance. Plus, you can never be sure what they might do either to themselves or someone else. Remember Heaven's Gate.

    2. To be honest, if everyone in this cult who is as closeminded as Shirley and that journalist-turned-idiot guy with the affliction shirt ended up drinking the kool-aid, I don't think it'd bother me... and I've never said anything like that about anybody (EVER), but in this one instance I make an exception. They make my stomach hurt. And if their kids are going to turn out like them, then good riddance. Part of me hopes they DO go to Jerusalem- they won't be NEARLY as protected from people who disagree with them as they are here.

    3. Obviously not comical of its' affects on the families. That's absurd. I'm speaking solely of the vile words they spit and what they stand for, it's beyond any comprehension, beyond trying to understand. These people are a joke. It's useless trying to reason such ignorance. It's like seeing that crazy guy on the corner of the street holding up a sign that the end of the world is near. You don't spend an hour asking what's his proof or why he believes it. You just know he's nuts.

      I don't believe these people are about group suicide or killing. They're about wanting everybody to know how sinful people are unto themselves. And that kind of hate takes extra special effort, it's a full-time job!

  149. if they call themselves a 'church' does that mean they're tax exempt?

    I think was saddens me the most is all the wasted energy - hating, yelling, the pride, brainwashing, and the bold faced lust for power and control over others that these people show.

    If all that fervor was going to something like protecting the environment, and making the world a better place, think of all the things they could accomplish. though, planting trees and feeding the poor doesn't let them laud over others like bigots and racists.

  150. lol, this is!
    btw. that asian guy had a very homosexual look...

    1. lol yea he was a bit fruity

  151. Taken at a word, the one thing not recognized is 'why'. If the Bible were to say 'at the temple of Blaznets, you must bow your head as you enter' and if the temple were found and the doorway was only 4 foot high, would the believers come to understand that bowing your head was only to keep from hitting it at the enterance?

    Understanding the 'why' behind the writings is the only way to unlock the true meaning and the only way to find the 'why' is to study the original writings of the Dead Sea Scrolls (which have not been fully released) and other ancient teachings in their original form. Translating is most difficult in attempting to determine actual meaning. Words change meaning over time and within context and reference. 'Hot' could mean temperature (which is relative) or beautiful or per Paris HIlton, approved of.

    If you believe in reincarnation, your soul has lived in many human bodies both male and female. If you have been male for many lives and now are female, could this not create a conflict of identity? The past intruding on the present? I don't subscribe to being gay as having something wrong with you but within the bible reference, at the time of the writing the most important aspect of life wasn't living, it was procreating. Man being with another man would reduce their respective sperm count so that even if they also layed down with a woman, the chances of pregnancy would have been greatly reduced. While a woman can have one pregnancy per year (give or take a little) a man could cause between 13 and 26 pregnancies in a year (allowing for a two week interlude).

    Interupt the interlude with extra losses of potentcy and you become a burden to the limited supply of food without contributing to the potential expansion of the human population. Considering birth mortality and every pregnancy becomes of paramount importance.

  152. Hold on just one second. Admittedly, I'm only 7 and a half minutes into the first section but come on, this guy is wearing an Affliction shirt and he thinks people will take him seriously? Really?

  153. when i watched the first film i was shoked.4 years later i was even more shoked because they are still here!!i was wondering if they so against of all the pop culture and the rest why they are wearing AFFLICTION and OBEY and AERO shirts?? and singing pop songs (even with different words)-they had to listen to the songs to beging with to catch the beat-so by there own doctrine they can go to hell for listening this music.
    i liked the Lady Gaga dance :) how many times these girls watched the video clip to learn the moves :)-so again by there own doctrine they can go to hell for that!!!
    ok GOODLUCK in Jerusalem-we will se how long you gonna last there!!--please please go there!!!
    somebody take the kids from this family and lock up the parents

    1. Not really much of a challenge to point out thier hypocrisies and circular reasoning.

      I do feel bad for the kids as I do for all kids who are brought up under religion.

  154. Relax everyone the Phelps are just trolling.

  155. The WBC said it in a nutshell "not of this world." They are in their supposed "hell" and do not know it!

  156. Good thing God does not exist then.

  157. The Phelps bring to light the flaws and realities of religion as whole, is it easy to separate your beliefs from the obviously insane Westboro cult? what beliefs do you share in common and how do you Justify some and not others?
    people like this make all the "cults" of the world seem crazy