Caesar's Messiah
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Caesar's Messiah

2012, Religion  -   205 Comments
8.08
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Ratings: 8.08/10 from 264 users.

Let's just go back to the drawing board, leave aside all of the assumptions of Christian history, look at the texts afresh, consider every possibility, and open the whole game up. By doing that we'll see that Christianity is really paganism by a different name.

Some of the Bible scholars are mavericks working outside the restrictions of mainstream religious institutions. This allows them the freedom to provide fresh insights and draw some startling conclusions about how Christianity was formed.

And for Joseph Atwill the key lies in the Dead Sea Scrolls, the only Jewish literature ever discovered from the first century AD or CE... the time Jesus would have been preaching among the Jews. The characters in the Dead Sea Scrolls were militaristic and you can see that this movement wanted to push the foreigners out of Israel; they were fundamentalists, whereas the characters of the Gospels are different.

They're pacifistic, they're turning the other cheek, they're giving the Caesar what is Caesar's. How did a movement like Christianity come to exist in a region that was occupied by Roman soldiers and had Jewish zealots within it that were going to push these Romans out? How was that possible?

Joseph began studying the other two major works of that era, The 'New testament' and the 'Wars of the Jews' by Josephus, a Roman court historian who described the war between the Romans and the Jews in the first century. While reading these works side by side he noticed an amazing connection between them.

Certain events from the ministry of Jesus seem to closely parallel episodes from the military campaign of Titus Flavius. A campaign which took place forty years after Jesus supposedly lived. Joseph's efforts to understand these connections led him to an incredible discovery. Christianity had been invented by a little known family of Roman Caesars, the Flavians, and they left us documents to prove it.

Directed by: Fritz Heede

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Randy
Randy
6 years ago

I probably shouldn't comment, being that I haven't seen the documentary, read the book, or any of the comments, but I am going to guess that no one even brought up the subject of transformation, religious experience, or anything of a simular sort. People seem to think that if you can't see it, if it doesn't walk and talk, then it doesn't exist. What do you do when you pray? You close your eyes don't you? What about meditation? There were a lot of early christianities going around in the first couple of centuries that we would now call the Gnostics, they would tell their orthodox brothers and sister's that what they believed to be litterally true was only a myth, and by myth they where implying an internal experience that could only be expressed through myth, poetry and the like. They were also considered the Great myth makers cause they would rewrite alternate versions of genesis and so on. I'm not saying everything about christianity was a myth, just the important stuff is. And I'm sure if they where questioned about the historical accuracy of their writings they would probably tell you "We're not historians, we're theologians". And you can see why they rejected the image of Jahova also, because they new a God would have to be a loving God, but Jahova is still in their pantheon represented as a demiurge, which makes sence to me cause we can be dicks also, implying that the further God is away from his own unity the more of a dick he is, but I don't want to write any spoilers, that would ruin a good myth. Anyway they had three classifications of people, basically a three-fold personality typology. Hylics, Pychics, and Pnuematics. The Hylics were those most absorbed in materiality , the Psychics where those people of the mind, the believers and idealists, and the Pneumatics were the spiritual ones, so they would criticize their orthodox brothers and sisters and tell them that believing is not enough for salvation. They had to have a spiritual transformation for any real progression outside of their basic moral teachings. And it clearly pissed Paul off! Damn this is long! Read "The Jesus Mysteries" by Timothy Freke, if you are into Christianity and don't want to start a new religion like Buddhism. Its free online. Add PDF in the search. I would not suggest reading a book called "Christianity: The Devil's Greatest Trick" by Adam Weishaupt, unless you need further convincing. See you on the other side, Me F&AM Randy. And stop falling for the same mind control technique called "Demonizing the Enemy ", it makes people look stupid! p.s. itys.

ralph ellis
ralph ellis
7 years ago

Atwill says that the Romans created Christianity to pacify the rebellious Jews. But he cannot see that if they had wanted to do so, the easiest story to write was a sugar-coated version of the Jewish Revolt. And that is exactly what Josephus Flavius wrote. And as it happens, the leader of the Jewish Revolt was called King Izas Manu of Edessa and Judaea - who was King Jesus Em Manuel of Judaea, the biblical Jesus. And both of these kings wore a wore a ceremonial Crown of Thorns.

But King Izas Manu lost this war with Rome and was crucified (but may have survived). This is all taken from real history. So yes, the secular account of this war (Jewish War) and fictional account of this war (gospels) were both written by Saul-Josephus. They were both created as Roman propaganda - to tame the rebellious East. See “Cleopatra to Christ" or "Jesus, King of Edessa" for an explanation. (Ralph Ellis first wrote this back in 1997, long before Atwill)

In addition, Ellis goes on to claim that Saul was Josephus. Thus the conflated Saul-Josephus was proselytizing his new "Simple Judaism for Gentiles" way back in AD55. And it was Saul-Josephus' Simple Judaism that became Christianity. So yes, a proto-Christianity did exist back in the AD 60s.

louise
louise
7 years ago

written by josephus
The Antiquities contains two famous references to Jesus Christ: the one in Book XX calls him the “so-called Christ.” The implication in the passage in Book XVIII of Christ’s divinity could not have come from Josephus and undoubtedly represents the tampering (if not invention) of a later Christian copyist.
The nag hammad texts make much more sence of jesus as a living being who in a more spiritual sence had gained enlightenment and totally also in an allegorical sence that you have to di...the ego has to die to be enlightened. I have no problem with the bible being both literal and allegorical.... the people in this documentary seem to start with the idea that he was not real and work to proveit from there. There is no doubt that christianity was usurped by the romans and the more powerful spiritual gospels were sentenced as heretical.

Kairologic
Kairologic
7 years ago

Great book, no matter what! And if you want more evidence to corroborate the Flavian religion theory, go ahead and read the Kairologic blogspot article "
Ananias, The Double Agent with Intent to Martyr the Apostle Paul and Undermine Messianic Judaism." You won't be disappointed, but you may be surprised - the clues in this case don't even require Josephus' "Wars of the Jews" to be made apparent.

jaberwokky
jaberwokky
10 years ago

I found this documentary most enjoyable, not sure how much of the information is fully accurate but it certainly gave me a new viewing angle on the Christ Mythos.

NX2
NX2
10 years ago

I found the last ten minutes or so to be the most interesting part, though to conclude that Christianity is an invention, is in my opinion quite a bit of an oversimplification. First of all, Christianity is not a uniform religion, even if only Roman Christianity is meant, it is not so. And it is not the same now as it was back then. There's an evolution.

I will not deny that the Flavians created some kind of religion. They, or the intellectuals working for them, mostly writing in Greek, an elitist tendency of the epoch, 'simply' gathered and manipulated material from diverse sources. Like good postmodernist of their time (heh, that reminds me of Lyotard's boutade, post modernism is what comes before modernism)
To the advantage of the Flavians, but clearly they propagated something that grew beyond their control. How many Christians are there today that worship Flavius? It grew out of their control because, i believe , of the use of powerful archetypes that have their validity or valuable aspects even today.
Archetypes that were initially intended for personal growth, as the documentary mentions.

I' d like to make it clear i'm not advocating for Christianity, it can be used to 'control' or influence you. That's the same for any religion. Or non- religion.

tusk321
tusk321
10 years ago

Great History Lesson!!! I do not follow a god, a christ, or a belief... the history is there, exposing the truth. Understand, you can still have your faith and love for the church. BUT the church, in my opinion, has no place in a reality based society. I do not explain things with supernatural notions, therefore I should not have to listen to/ abide by a christian concept in my life or community. A foundation based on murder, greed, control of the masses, and bowing to something that doesn't exist, in my belief... I realize many follow this concept and glad they find hope in such a quest but don't judge or control my life with what you call christian values. I have faith that mankind knows right from wrong, god or no god.

CapnCanard
CapnCanard
10 years ago

A good documentary... I've read D.M. Murdock's book "The Christ Conspiracy" so the whole doc was just a refresher of previous info though I read her book about 10 years ago and I had almost forgotten about the Flavian connection.

Richard Kratom
Richard Kratom
10 years ago

Religion brings peace and comfort to a lot of people which is a good thing I guess but keep it to yourself and leave me and my family alone. I like data and factual information. Some like make believe. To each their own. I really enjoyed this documentary and learned a lot.

Dan Courtney
Dan Courtney
10 years ago

There is also a compelling work by Dennis MacDonald (The Homeric Epics and the Gospel of Mark) that makes the case that the gospels are modeled after the Odyssey. What's fascinating is that at a time when more people are finding that an internal critique of Christianity exposes its incoherence, we are also finding the very sources of this mythology.

Joshua Marks
Joshua Marks
10 years ago

Pretzel logic baked in a vacuum. The term "scholarship" is used loosely... the themes are regurgitated "pop-(a)theology"... and the "agenda" is self-evident and explicit. Religion is used broadly as a straw man, and there is no effort to represent true scholarship from within the ranks of modern Christology or even the historical philosophers/mystics of the church (e.g., St. Thomas Aquinas et al).

There are many representations of "proper discussion" on these topics online (youtube) and elsewhere churning theism/atheism based on the Abrahamic tradition, culminating in the testament of Jesus. Fortunately "we" have the likes of John Lennox (Prof Mathematics and Philosophy of Science @ Oxford), White (Prof. Greek, Hebrew, systematic theology) and others well prepared to take on the "intelligentsia" of atheism as represented by Dawkins, Price, Silverman, Hitchens... The Price/White debate is probably the most directly associated with the content of this documentary - for those interested, a selection of "scholarly debates" on these topics:

James White / Robert Price - Is The Bible True?
James White / David Silverman - Is The New Testament Evil
John Lennox / Richard Dawkins - Has Science Buried God (Oxford Museum of Natural History)
John Lennox / Richard Dawkins - The God Delusion (Alabama)
John Lennox / Michael Shermer - Does God Exist
Christopher Hitchens / William Lane Craig - Does God Exist?
Richard Dawkins vs Cardinal George Pell. From Q and A.

Nothing_Is_Real
Nothing_Is_Real
10 years ago

Religion is the original sin and god is the original scam. Point taken.

Guest
Guest
10 years ago

This documentary is the single most absolutely righteous empirical attack on Christianity i have ever seen, heard, or read.

Allrighthen
Allrighthen
10 years ago

Why do people so desperately want others to believe what they believe, is affirmation of you own ideologies so important that you'd force others to believe as you do. Some Atheists are as zealous as the Christians they despise and the Christians are just as willing to hurt others to prove their beliefs.

Ted Arndt
Ted Arndt
10 years ago

Paganism and Christ? I've come to a conclusion that when someone says the word Zionist they happen to hate God. The one they don't believe in.

maria
maria
10 years ago

What a pile of deception. An Atheist view of Christ is almost laughable if it were not so utterly sad that they are desolate.

Ellena Sabater
Ellena Sabater
10 years ago

It is very interesting to me that most people trying to discredit religion are always focusing on Christianity. I never come across an article or doco about Hinduism for example. People go to great lengths to discredit something that is in the end true. People don't seem to acknowledge that the bible is full of prophesies that came true and writings about science facts that we're not proven til thousands of years later by modern science. How does one explain that away?

luoar
luoar
10 years ago

When are my fellow human will wake up to religious lies? all new religion on earth came from Rome set up for one purpose slavery and mind control.

T1bbst3t
T1bbst3t
10 years ago

Questions at the start;
1. Although there were others like Jesus, prophets & healers, from round the same time period, Jesus was the one who became popular enough to pi** off the romans enough for them to kill him by him earning the title 'king of the Jews' & gaining popularity.
2. The apostles were the first people to 'spread' christianity round different cities.
3. Most surviving texts were written in Greek because all educated people round the Roman empire wrote Greek from how it was run since before the roman take-over of the empires set up by Alexander the great, which was never changed.
I would like to point out that Christianity wasn't institutionalised until 300ad when Constantine set up the catholic church & that anybody who thinks they are educated towards christianity to read JOB in the old testament if they think christianity is a 'brain-washing' psy-op. It promotes alltruistic values like 'love', 'charity' & less materialism & opposes usury & deceit from 'the un-Godly' for example, shows you that you can totally rebuke these values toward something called 'satanism' if you like there but your supposed to have the strength to resist this because that's how the 'surfs' like us are supposed to find the strength to organise ourselves into a benevolant society!
It has been institutionalised again & christians do get caught up in 'pious', or 'religious' lies by people who like to use the bible to put religious overtones towards political agendas' but this can happen to anybody who allows themselves to get caught up in any similar dialect like this documentary for example.....
Some of the books in the old testament are based on Samarian stories from around 3500bc, but the Greeks & Egyptians for example actually had a few Gods based on some samarian Gods I think, which just goes to show they were a very advanced race!

Sha Tara
Sha Tara
10 years ago

Raised Catholic, became atheist, then agnostic, "converted" to born again Christianity, none of the above answered my fundamental questions: Who am I? Where am I going? Past all that now (I think) but I'm still looking into Christianity now that I know it is, indeed, a psy-op. What I'd like to see is research into the work of the false apostle, Paul of Tarsus, and how he managed, single-handed, to twist the movement begun by "Jesus" (or whomever) into the political power that became known as the Catholic Church and is now Christianity (whether the sub-cults acknowledge Rome or not, they are just as much puppets of the "Church" as Catholics.) Paul of Tarsus, please, known before as Saul, persecutor of the early "Christians" and barely concealed misogynist.

Lauri Neva
Lauri Neva
10 years ago

So a slam on Christianity now! Never a slam on the Jews though, those cretins of civilization who are bent as the so called holly books in their horror library tell them, to destroy Christianity whom they hate and make everyone bow down to the Jew! This country gives the state of Israel vast trillions of money gratis to carry their murderous attacks on Muslims and everyone else, making America pay for their murderous adventures. Bah humbug on the GD Jews!

hisxmark
hisxmark
10 years ago

Christianity was designed as a means of social control. Slaves are to obey their masters, and no one is to resist secular or religious authority: One emperor is the representative of one god. Kings rule by divine will. The design was a pastiche of familiar elements, a blend of Judaism and the mystery religions.

Val Valiant Five
Val Valiant Five
10 years ago

Time blurs things like a children's game of whispers.

Two thousand years from now I can picture those silly Scientologists justifying the life and times of Ron L Hubbard with just as much faith and passion as all the children of Abraham justify their respective messiah(s) today.

Hopefully our real creators will let us know what is really going on by then... Just to shut us all up, at the very least.

Alv V
Alv V
10 years ago

Silly and speculative new-age fantasies without a shred of facts, just like the fiction about the Jesus and Mary Magdalene marriage, Illuminati, Masons, Templar's, Grails and any similar ear-tickling preaching that came as a result of people believing that "The Da Vinci Code" was a work of non-fiction.

M Raghavan
M Raghavan
10 years ago

All religions have links to ancient myths and ideas that were precursors to later developments. Non-western religions are willing to admit this without having to needlessly debunk faith or spirituality altogether.

joe
joe
10 years ago

You can link anything to something else. You can always connect dots that dont exist. And how do they have proof that the books were written by the Flavians? It is their research that says so. In the end, it does not matter whether Jesus was real or not. It is his teachings that matter. They are the same teachings of all major religions. It is about love, kindness, and caring.

Nebbe
Nebbe
10 years ago

How come christianity is the only faith trying so hard to miscredit it self ???

Galzu
Galzu
10 years ago

I think this is a precursor for destroying the 3 book religions, I have been suspect of this since I read a letter written over a hundred years ago, they intend to force all Jews to move to Israel then stir up war between the Jews and Arabs then once those two have destroyed themselves so they will bring more evidence out showing Christ is a fantasy, thus destroying all book religions, I often wonder why the Jews were allowed to take a majority of the worlds wealth and all the best weapons, well they will be outnumbered so need all that to start and fund the upcoming war, the Jews were setup, I find it very odd that a Jewish owned press is making sure we know that Jews control all the banks, politicians and media, this can only be to create resentment and now they have cut money off to us will lead to civil war making all Jews leave and go to Israel, even the making sure they reached the top of every thing including making sure they got Nobel no matter how false their science is, it is clear the Jews have been setup as a focus point of hate purely to force them all to the middle east to fight a war against Islam until both are dead. my guess is they were given nukes so they would use them, which means the Arabs have been secretly given them.
Anyway judging by how long this manipulation of us has been going on I would say that the ordinary people have been farmed for the last 4000 years. but I think this crash we have now is so that we blame the Jews and force them out so they can start this war of wars that will end up with a NWO with no religions.

John Murgaš
John Murgaš
10 years ago

The Biggest Mass Psychosis in History.

James
James
10 years ago

There is theatrical music constantly in the background during the documentary narration, interviews and voice overs. I could only take about 10min of all the continuous noise before it was just too much.

~Oliver B Koslik Esq
~Oliver B Koslik Esq
10 years ago

Reaffirmations of what I had already concluded upon, in regards to the story of religious origin.

If you are interested in learning the creationism of religion ie: Christianity & Judaism. More over if you aspire to understanding how different (but "similar") religions/faiths came to be... This documentary explains the concept of "engineered class war" (of public oppression & control) quite clearly and concisely.

Great Doc!
+1 For Sociological Evolution!
Thank You