Earth 2100: The Final Century of Civilization?
Interesting propaganda from ABC. Planet at Risk: Experts Warn Population Growth, Resource Depletion, Climate Change Could Bring Catastrophe in Next Century. It's an idea that most of us would rather not face - that within the next century, life as we know it could come to an end. Our civilization could crumble, leaving only traces of modern human existence behind.
It seems outlandish, extreme - even impossible. But according to cutting edge scientific research, it is a very real possibility. And unless we make drastic changes now, it could very well happen. Experts have a stark warning: that unless we change course, the perfect storm of population growth, dwindling resources and climate change has the potential to converge in the next century with catastrophic results.
In order to plan for the worst, we must anticipate it. In that spirit, guided by some of the world's experts, ABC News' "Earth 2100," hosted by Bob Woodruff, will journey through the next century and explore what might be our worst-case scenario. But no one can predict the future, so how do we address the possibilities that lie ahead? Our solution is Lucy, a fictional character devised by the producers at ABC to guide us through the twists and turns of what the next 100 years could look like. It is through her eyes and experiences that we can truly imagine the experts' worst-case scenario -- and be inspired to make changes for the better.
By 2015, there are expected to be hopeful signs. Experts predict alternative energy solutions that are currently in their infancy will gain momentum. Windmills may sprout up everywhere. Off the coast of Scotland, a sprawling wave farm will harvest renewable energy from the ocean. Vatican City will meet all of its energy needs with solar power. And the U.S. will produce cleaner, more fuel efficient vehicles in accordance with newly unveiled emissions guidelines.
But will it be enough? In 2015, global demand for fossil fuels could be massive and growing, but experts say oil will be harder to find and far more expensive to consume. If the cost of gasoline skyrockets, few may be able to afford to maintain the lifestyles to which we've grown accustomed. There may be a mass exodus from the suburbs, as driving gas-fueled cars becomes nearly impossible economically. But will that convince us to change our ways?
Communists/leftists/marxists must invent continual crises to create a "purpose" for their existence, because heres a NEWS FLASH-NO ONE NEEDS OR WANTS THEM! THEY MUST DISRUPT, DESTROY AND TEAR DOWN, AND CREATE FEAR IN ORDER TO ACQUIRE POWER. THE FORCES OF GOOD NEED TO HUNT DOWN AND KILL EVERY LAST ONE OF THESE EVIL FVCKS.
Just another propaganda orgy for the cabal. The climate change hoax and the co-called vaccine hoax.
Let's see what the fake alien invasion will be all about.
Start studying flat earth people. The thing we have most of is ice!! It's all around us.
Why would the military keep people from crossing over from the continents closest to it.
Its all about control.
Why were dinosaurs only discovered for the first time after Darwin came up with his theories. There were no dinosaurs. They have divided people between
Most of our history is one long fake story. It is us against the central banks.
Who forced fossil fuels, supermarkets and pharmaceuticals on us???
Look up Rockefeller and Carnegie in pharmaceuticals. Rothchild's pretty much own the central banks. They own the city of London.
The lot of them are mostly related, going back. JP Morgan, Rockefeller etc.
The food industry has also been taken over by them. That's why people cannot sell the food they grow in their own countries to feed their own people.
They have manipulated the global system to enable them to control food, water and energy.
World Economy Entering Period Of Oil Scarcity, Halliburton CEO Says
Halliburton CEO and president Jeff Miller made waves this week by predicting that the world is due for a period of oil scarcity in comments at the World Petroleum Congress in Houston, Texas. “I think that for the first time in a long time, we will see a buyer looking for a barrel of oil, as opposed to a barrel of oil looking for a buyer,” Miller said. Since 2014, the oil industry has generally deemphasized building new infrastructure in the face of low prices. However, that trend may now catch up with the industry, which now finds demand for oil exceeding the available supply given current infrastructure.
The world was warmer 20 years ago than it is today. This vid pushes the fake and failed "menace" of CO2 and virtually ignores the real elephant in the living room: resource depletion.
this is stupidly dramatized
Hurricane Sandy, Coronavirus, Refugee Crises, yup we're already seeing a bunch of these things.
global warming, disappearing glaciers, Rising temperatures, shorter Winters,
speaking of which, was Club Penguin shut down because of the melting glaciers?
blah, blah blah, we can all see that and it's easy to criticize but noone ever seems to give any solutions, and i dont mean the bs like 'government should that and that...' no government is gonna save us, revolution must come from within
true, they never actually get the solutions.
they only point out the problem
Which is how it all ends. Nobody is changing anything. Were gonna stay this course until we are destroyed.
Well, with 10 years hindsight, WRONG.
At least they tried meme
Footnote: Fall 2016…… How completely, totally bizarre is this production, made about 7 years ago, not to mention all these comments? I've been watching the recent scientific videos of the ice under both poles melting, right now, something they are predicting in this film around 1:00.00, as occurring around year 2075 …… Opps!!! But hasn't Armageddon been rescheduled forward to 2020, just a heartbeat away? And my daughter will be having a baby in 2017….. Well, as Edwin above has stated, the fat is already in the fire, and to think that 10 billion human beings will stay sane enough to salvage anything of this orgy of madness is truly exaggerated optimism! I must copy all these comments to read through the next few years in my leisure….. I'm 79 now and hope to finish up here on earth soon…..
The scariest thing is that--- (the parents of the next three billion added earthlings soon to be born-- ) are totally clueless/careless about the above problems. All they want is more luxury living!
We need more shock awareness as in this doco, and it must be compulsory viewing. MAYBE THIS DOCO helped 'Peak oil change to 'peak demand' in 2014, when people realized the potential seriousness of pollution from fossil fuels.
At 83, I have seen the TX coast become devoid of fish and crabs, rivers too polluted to swim in, air in cities so polluted that it is causing decline in health, the US populace consuming so many over prescribed medications that that in itself is causing health problems, the US becoming another imperialist nation wreaking and havoc on underdeveloped countries, pseudo wars that are highly profitable for US defense industries, the earth polluted from our chemical industries and oil and coal industries, our people becoming obese on foods devoid of nutritional value, waste sites as big as cities, oceans depleted of species of fish, the world population growing at an unsustainable rate, and on and on. Yet a tiny few of the world's best scientists are predicting a doomed earth in 100 years. Corporate leaders continuing to compete while ignoring that they themselves are driving the planet toward the next great extinction.
see in 2015 good things have happebed
if true im glad i wont be here.
The future of social development, civilisation.
People always wanted to know that them expects. It is
rather probable that at the initial stages of human communities in
primitive-communal tribes, groups of people prophets, oracles aspiring by
primitive forecasts were already allocated to provide to themselves a part of
public foodstuff, places at the centre and other privileges. Simply so there
was a process of division of labour … So it has turned out that by the XIX-th
century end "the basic" contradiction between public character of
work has been developed and is private in the capitalist way of consumption of
its results. K.Marx, F.Engels, V.Lenin on the basis of this contradiction have
developed the whole doctrine about class struggle. Matter is not in those tens
thousand pages of the spoilt paper, and in millions human lives which have been
put on a mythical altar of struggle for ostensibly light future of the
proletariat, all people … I would not like, that still someone put forward
ostensibly the basic contradictions. I have studied all works of classics of
Marxism-Leninism, other philosophers in these subjects of social development
and have developed the contradiction which is capable to begin a difficult way
on creation of a society for people and people for a society, to the future
development of a civilisation. It was necessary to allocate main principle of
distributive relations and to "track" a way from the mechanism of
manufacture before consumption. As a result in 1986 I for myself have
formulated the contradiction between public character of work and individual
way of consumption of its results which without exaggerations and it is
possible to name the core. Considering has occupied not much few 28 years while
I have not registered it as idea –
Why I represent it to YOU? The simple answer - I have all preliminary
approaches to the decision of many problems, but people should choose concrete
ways of their decision and decide what directions to choose it … Especially to
me 61 year, the invalid of 1st group and inflow of fresh thought should be … we
Will begin with publications under the question decision recombination technologies. This a little
unexpected for many the decision of a question of an individualization of
manufacture of subjects of private use, but I in 1986 did not know about 3-D
printers. Business stands up for small - instead of a paper to use durable,
strong, non-polluting, a material repeated (micro-modular application). A
problem of individual power-manufacture, of course, priority, but the mankind
has not grown yet to its decision.
"But will it be enough? In 2015, global demand for fossil fuels could be massive and growing, but experts say oil will be harder to find and far more expensive to consume. If the cost of gasoline skyrockets, few may be able to afford to maintain the lifestyles to which we've grown accustomed. There may be a mass exodus from the suburbs, as driving gas-fueled cars becomes nearly impossible economically. But will that convince us to change our ways?"
Who are the experts? The False Prophet cannot change its ways since the name means contradictory to the Truth. Many have been victimized by false prophesy and they should really start to THINK and mend their ways.
should this be under sci-fi movie ? entertaining, but its the governments way of brainwashing and freaking people out into staying under control.
Wasteful with our resources, time for a change in our life patterns, Plant many more trees and have less people born into the world ! Be like the Natives of America before the Europeans came !
If really looking for the solutions; Stop complaining on each government, religion and being an ignorant. As my aspect seems most of the people didn't teached to learn how to sustain mother nature and values on being a very responsible beings. Instead we'd been brain washed and enslavement by the every core of education and religious systems and lit the fire of greed in each innocent children and we goes on!
So, people are unblameable there is no use to blame and criticize, if we does. Act of violence arose automatically as
blaming on country causes war.
blaming on religious causes conflict then to holly war in every society.
even blaming on someone will causes fight and very displeasant moment etc.
As how we step in we step out, step by step via raising awareness, being optimistic, bare tolerance, offer loving and understandingly spread the right message of nature of natural values and most important genuine human understanding.
Since we are a social animals with mutual respect and
together we can live better.
together we can do better.
so, lets be together and make some changes in action
that how we like to make a healthy life.
Heres the documentary not allowed through yet...the right answer...Global warming is like Venus a natural reverting of a naturally incendiary planet...Earth + Venus are so alike they are called sister planets....Change EVERY light bulb it will still revert,,,there is ONLY ONE way to reverse it...GEOENGINEERING ...and ONLY ONE RIGHT way to geoengineer it....how do I know that? I ts written across earth in giant stone megalith sites, which read as simply as pictionary...Not the hieroglyphs the giant sites themselves...SEE my avatar? The pyramid was mirrored, I replaced the mirror reflectivity...you now SEE the original ideogram...smaller volcano like buildings and a super volcanic building coated in mirror VOLCANIC MIRROR...which is a real phenomena described by NASA as acid rain aerosols which in the instance of largest eruptions reach stratosphere surround earth + stay up years...Highly solar reflective this acid droplets shield reflects away incoming sun heat + radiation thus earths temps drop EVERY TIME....Super volcanoes cause volcanic winters by this process,,,,however Pinatubo PROVES 1991-1993 the volcanic mirror can in less density siimply cool earth...YOU SEE in desert a volcanic mirror ideogram which is only one phenomena + does ONE thing cools a planet.....in front of that ideogram is a sphinx which instructs ...get it right you live..... volcanic winter mortality rate is 90% of all life....global warming like Venus mortality rate is 100%.....GEOENGINEERING like Pinatubo + combined with the other megalith instructions written across earth all liife saved.....IF I am crazy so are you cause you SEE a volcanic mirror ideogram in that picture as does every person on earth despite color race religion etc.....2 facts solve it ...GOOGLE them both......NASA volcanic aerosols reflect sun and cool earth........Pyramid casestone mantle casing mirror .....do not get sidetracked by other opinions or other sciences...its simply these 2 facts....+ then you SEE it....i also have Easter Island + I can SHOW how pyramid was made with helium
Stop mentioning Pictionary without a valid representation of why that analogy works, devalues any point you're making by making you seemingly batty. Why do you type that way, no need for random caps and loads of elipses, once again devalues your point. What even was the point you were making? cause I sure don't know.
First of all Teddy I can type however I would like...Pictionary was a game based on visual communication.If someone solving a 10000 yr old message across Earth that cools the planet seems batty to you, perhaps instead of reading it you are simply trying to be superior.I take it as a compliment no one actually comes at the data or the science since its impenetrable but always with the punctuation...Many famous writers used their own personal way of typing..As to Pictionary , if you see a man in a volcano outfit with an erupting lava hat he would be a volcanologist.If you have a set of them in a ring within a ring of matching volcanoes its volcanology They spoke visual communication on Easter Island and Giza.Giza biggest pyramid was mirrored.When you restore the mirror casing you see smaller volcanic buildings and a super volcanic mirror.Super volcanoes create a stratospheric aerosol mirror around planets that reflect away sun and cool worlds...Easter island talks in pictionary, it says "ring of 1000 volcanoes"...Giza is atmospheric geoengineering it says " mimic super volcanic reflectivity" to mimic a phenomenon that cools planets is geoengineering...The fact that you are harping about spelling when I am easily translating in visual communication the instructions to cool a planet , so easy CHILDREN understand it, seems as bizarre as everything else on this planet.You acting like you just cannot understand it does not fool people who do...If you do not like it...too bad....I personally am seriously bored by english teachers whose class is not one I am enrolled in following me all over trying to force their way of doing things on me....I solved the megaliths quite well without your teaching, in fact I ignored people who seem to think spelling, grammar and punctuation are more important than content...Why don't YOU quit telling people on a free internet how to do things, especially when they are far ahead of YOU in things far more important....ty 4 commenting, have a good day.If you cannot understand simple Pictionary its really not my problem
I'm impressed. You have the ability to imply mania through typing.
THIS is a NASA paragraph on a reflectivity caused by bigger volcanoes that cools worlds Teddy....The pyramid of Egypt was mirrored. Smaller volcanic buildings make the big one a bigger*super volcano*. A real science written up by NASA and the same science written using visual communication 10,000 years earlier Teddy. The ONLY way to cool your world is written right across the top of it in giant stone visual science.It is not crazy TO associate it, it is crazy not to....*************************************NASA LANGLEY ARTICLE 1996.
NASA - Atmospheric Aerosols: What Are They, and Why Are ...
1 The dispersal of volcanic aerosols has a drastic effect on theEarth's atmosphere. ... The first is the volcanic aerosol layer which forms in the stratosphere after major volcanic eruptions like Mt. ...They reflect sunlight, reducing the amount of energy reaching the lower atmosphere and the Earth's surface, cooling them.
NASA a volcanic reflective phenomenon that is so important it cools WORLDS Teddy, and an ideogram in desert when you restore the great pyramids reflective casing, of a super volcanic reflectivity. EVERY person no matter color,religion, language"SEES" a super volcano among smaller architecture then, coated in reflectivity"VOLCANIC MIRROR" Volcanic mirror is what scientists in 1993 called the reflective stratospheric phenomenon....descriptively....its atmospheric science written across earth. Easter Island statue men are carved of a volcano their erupting top hats are scoria*dried erupting lava*,. Volcano men in visual communication is ONLY 1 thing, volcanologists. They set those volcano pieces in a ring of nearly 1000 on an island in the middle of the Pacific Ring ofFire, a ring of nearly 1000 volcanoes. Volcanology Teddy...not 1 but 2 of the most famous megaliths on Earth SOLVE using advanced volcanology visual science Teddy..You SEE the NASA description of a ref;lectivity caused by big volcanoes, and you KNOW the big volcano covered in reflectivity is a super volcanic architecture. Which one of us is wrong do you think Teddy? I have the 3rd piece, the CO2 piece...So far people have procrastinated while the Arctic melts..pretending I did not solve them does not make it so, but getting it into news saves 7 billion people...Have a blessed day...Judith Woolworth Donahue
It solves like frigging Pictionary which is based upon visual communication....Volcano men with erupting lava hats :"volcanologists" set in a near 1000 ring in the middle of the only ring of 1000 volcanoes on earth...its a rebus the ENTIRE island of the Pacific Ring of Fire it sits within..like a giant game of Pictionary!... PS even if all 7 billion of you argued it doesn't devalue anything of mine...it only makes you seem addled since even children say its a VOLCANO MAN.... volcano man in Pictionary ? VOLCANOLOGIST..I will type however I like, I can elipse...and trying to devalue what I have or insinuate your fake superiority because somehow punctuation seems your main focus , does nothing..What is wrong with you? Someone shows you something this awesome and you start in on punctuation? Does that even SEEM sound to you? Think if you can on which seems batty...
I have no faith in humanity whatsoever. I see multiple unprecedented problems coming to a head in the near future. The question is when. The U.S. is internally sick, and will collapse under it's accumulated debt load. All it will take is a severe enough shock to the system, or that China stops buying the U.S.'s treasury bonds. With 17 trillion on the books, so little as one percent increase in the T-Bills interests will choke your government. And I place all of that blame on the U.S, people's sense of entitlement on the left, AND the right wing nut jobs who keeps fighting for the status quo.
only needed to watch 12mins to know this is propaganda bull
Watch "Zeitgeist: Addendum" and JOIN the Zeitgeist Movement!
One thing we do have is over population
That is a definite truth! No arguing at all with that. Facts are facts. Sooner or later, the pot boils over. I am not sure we can stop it. Perhaps another asteroid or global pandemic but I do not wish that on anyone!! It's tough.
Earth can support many times it's current population. Resources are only scarce because our systems are inadequate.
HAHAHA you honestly think the earth can support not only the current population we have, but several times that?!?! You must not know anything about our beloved Earth. the only reason we can support the earth now is because of the Green Revolution. Please people pull your heads out of your ass and do some research, the next 50 years of humans may truly dictate how future humans, our kids will live.
Like master magicians the forces that be are letting this global catastrophe happen so as to reduce population to sustainable levels and then they will pull the rabbit out of the hat with amazing cure alls for the planet its getting real crazy thats for sure and then you have the armies who want war at all costs its just a mad mad world and its doomed!!!
Was watching a news video clip of an ignor@#t, ugl** black woman and her 15 kids subsisting on welfare and food stamps. She was furious that she didn't get more handouts:"Somebody gonna pay for dis!" she yelled. This is a good example of why the planet is doomed.
Honestly though, being so judgemental as to call a person "ignor@#t, ugl** black woman" is also an indicator to why our society is doomed. Yes, we have uneducated people, Yes, they need help, and Yes, they don't understand the problem as we understand it; but thats where we have to step in.
Helping out little by little, WHILE teaching llittle by little WILL help. Educating people about our planet our problems while helping them will be much more affective, rather than labelling them, ignoring them, and basically giving up hope on them...
I am shocked that there can be people out there who don't see the problem with over population and finite resources. NO, we don't have infinite natural resources and no we can't feed an unlimited amount of people. Hopefully, the human race survives long enough to actually become conscious in all respects.
Peoples ignorance will never cease to amaze me. This world is so self centered with ZERO regard to anything or anyone after our petty and momentary existence.
This was a big mainstream TV public introduction to the scientific probabilities of overpopulation and plastic combined on a finite space. It is animated in a creepy way. The family is projected from now current time, into the next ninety years. Some interpret this doc as propaganda for global warming and overpopulation. But I think it is merely the science of exponential mathematics and culture.
It will take disasters of absolutely unprecedented scale before they will make any changes to oil company profits, and when they do they will force us to pay an unimaginable price.
Contraception should be free and freely available for all humans, the religious stand in the way of that, not the one per cent.
The 1% certainly stand in the way of ANY social program - any "entitlement". They don't even believe we're entitled to free potable water, or clean air, let alone free contraception.
Everything has to do with mismanagement of resources. There is plenty of room for everybody. Bottom line, there is more than enough for our needs. Look to our leaders who are greedy.
No there isn't! The population can't expand indefinitely, because there are not infinite resources no matter how it's divvied up. By mid century there will be an additional 2.5 billion on top of the 7 billion we have now. You are part of the problem.
You're right when it comes to the fact that eventually...we will have overdone it. But we are far from that time. Right now the biggest problem isn't a lack of natural resources or room for us all, it's how they are distributed among us and why.
Panic over dwindling resources is more of a problem than population explosion. By mid century neither you nor I will be on this earth. Let’s focus on making positive changes now: reduce emissions, promote sustainable practices, invest on alternative energy sources, control population growth through education and contraception, check economic and political corruption that leads to inequity, abuse and economic woes, etc.
The physical universe is expanding indefinitely. The real problem is knowledge. The more you think you know already and feel expertise about the tiny discoveries you gather from gossip, the less confident you become.
Man is on a quest to find Truth rather than generate wholeale knowledge that are mostly contradictory and wasteful thought.
Yes! the problem is not overpopulation (as the mass media would have you believe). The real problem
is that of equitable distribution of land and resources.
When you don't have winter in Canada your on a different planet. it will not be the end of the century We have already passed the tipping point but not the point of no return. We will be their by 2020 if we don't change things now. If we change things now we can avert coming extinction as a species-allthough with Fukishima that might not be possible. This is not pessimism it is realism. Don't let the masters of the universe re arrange the chairs on the titanic with their bandaid solutions; We need to put best practices in place now and we know what they are in fact we have a variety of solutions as we should have. First is political change for that a General Strike is necessary. Advocate for this where ever you live on the planet. Organize with labour when you go on strike the money machine stops-that is the only thing that gets their attention-protests mean nothing.
Strike means everything.
They can kill all the radiation quite easily but they want depopulation Fukushima was deliberate!
Hrshoer, you're no scientist. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Global climate change is one of the best proven theories in the history of science, but like evolution is is constantly "challenged" by small minded fools such as yourself. All you provide is anecdotal evidence, which is meaningless. Have you ever been in a lab or studied anything? Have you taken place in these studies? Do you even understand how the Earth climate works and the history of the earth's climate? I bet not. How can you possibly deny the dozens of credible studies, performed in different ways using different mechanics, that CLEARLY show that our earth's temperature is on the rise despite the fact that natural phenomena cannot be fully responsible? If you have mysterious peer reviewed study sitting in you attic, I would really love to read it. Open a damn book, honestly, and learn some respect for the people who study science, you small minded fool.
Quit running down and calling people fools on these discussions. Read the comment policy.
Fair warning 1.
They are causing climate change by HAARP manipulating the weather, they are also speeding up the polar shift. They are using all this to implement Agenda 21, you people are falling for it.
if anyone is falling for anything, it is you falling for the crazy ideas being put out by the men who are making money off this nonsense.
YOU are being tricked into believing all this silly crap. HAARP is not used for what you are claiming it is. Fukushima was not intentional, they can not easily kill the radiation, and Alan Watt is the exact person i was talking about earlier who is just making money by scaring the crap out of gullible people like you.
please get some help.
You are welcome to your opinions but not to make judgements against my mental health. David Icke and Alex Jones, those are the ones spreading fear and propaganda, not Alan Watt (thank you for giving me the opportunity to mention his name again as I guess it is so disturbing to you). Peace!
what is disturbing to me is that you are buying into this mans nonsense. and he is getting money from people like you. its a shame what they do. i feel bad for you.
Yes you seem to need to respond to everyone who does not share your view. I did not buy into anything, I checked the facts on most all of it and he is spot on & consistent when speaking about details. I do not buy into the reptilian, alien, David Icke spin on the truth. These people are paid to deliberately put these spins on things to make us all look nuts. These people are not really hiding their agenda, they want depopulation and Chem-Trails are openly admitted now, you should check facts before you go claiming the truth is a lie.
dont worry Boris, everything you said was dead on.
I just watched it this morning on the Histort channel. I knew from the start it was going to be full of liberal propoganda. In the late 60s and a teen at the time, they were saying we were headed into another "Ice Age".....I must have slept through it!!!! Damn Teenagers!!!
So what's to say that this isn't just a cycle that the earth goes through every couple of hundred years. There was a Documentry in the last few years "The Littlest Iceage" from back in the 1600s where the earth went through a cooling period that lasted 30 years and that too caused famine.
We all want clean water and air, and wish that there was peace on earth and free healthcare and whiskey. So maybe we all should try our best to be green and all that, but we're a little sick and tired of being pummeled as the bad guys in all this. The US is always portrayed as the bad guy Poluting the air, causing terrorism, starting wars, depleating the oceans, and bird poop on your windshield.
Yep, lets all put those CFL bulbs in our lights, then drive past the industrial sites and see all the buildings lit up. How about telling KMart, Walmart, and all the factories that are closed at night to shut off most of the lights in the parking lot, and the ones that light up their facade far from the doors where someone might want to break in. That would be such a big decision to make "Al,,, it's your job to shut off the lights".
I am assuming conservative religious watch these docs and then make their fearful, inane comments to feel good about their fear and shore up their shaky belief system. Nature does not give a damn about your political beliefs, mine either.
Here is the FOX News side for all of you: Activist judges, dividing America, George Soros, Saul Alinsky, Biased Liberal Media, Job Creators, Liberal Lie, The War on Drugs, The War on Terror, Weapons of Mass Destruction, entitlement programs, Socialism, Communism, Anarchism, Marxist,
intellectual elite, faith and values, Marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman, un-American, Free market principles, Let the Free market Decide, Limited government, Deregulation, Science . . . It's just a Theory, Global Warming is a good thing because you will get to wear shorts more often!!!
Quite enjoy the odd docudrama, this one was interesting if disturbing. Embedding disabled at part 3 though/
This is the most liberal biased propoganda film I have ever seen,, I had to look to find out if they renamed Al Gore's movie in order to get more people to watch it!! What a load of crap! Yeah,, sure,,as soon as they get to New York city all the world is rosy again and things are better!! If any of these scenarios were to come about, New York City is going to be a zoo and most definitely not safe to travel to.. It's barely acceptable for humans now! This is so liberally biased it might even win an academy award or a nobel prize for the producers!! Totally laughable.
Keith you are part of the problem.
Live outside the U.S. and you will change your view VERY quickly.
IN the NYC segment , Keith, they were trying to show that there WILL be efforts to implement technological solutions to the environmental and energy crises, some successful, some not. As we spiral down to ruin, there will be heroic technological efforts to arrest the decline, and that was portrayed in the movie. In the end, however, it was too little, too late, and that's the way it will be in real life. It will take decades for civilization to prepare for when fossil fuels inevitably leave us and that is not going to happen, we have squandered the time. There are too many deniers who think we can continue on indefinitely with infinite growth and it's not going to happen. Humanity is going down and will take much of life on this planet with it, an era of extinction not seen since the extinction of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. It's going to be ugly.
So, if the ice on greenlaand is melting, we are looking at a new iceage
Not much to do to resolve this.
Most if not all investments done on planet earth, are done on the purpose of taking over competitors. Competitor by any means.
When they'll get to the river, they'll build the bridge.
If it any of this ever happen, I'll be gone anyhow.
All things must pass, I guess?
Some said the dead line was 50 years back, some other in 1984, 2012 and so on while other say on an every day basis that it'll be tomorrow.
It rather looks as some are carrying a guilt on their conscience. Public confession is no religion though? As far as I know?
I agree crab, watch if your bored only.
This is more propaganda... when I was little (late70s early 80s), my generation was being told this no-future propaganda, but then it was "The Rapture" the year 2000 seemed unimaginable, and the "End of Days" was an easy sell for the masses. Then of course, it didnt happen, and Y2k was a joke.... before me it was nuclear holocaust...remeber all that fear mongering?
People need to be scared so now we got new stuff, while it lasts (usually a decade) The only true reality here, is that 85% of the worlds population is r*tarded in their own unique ways.
I am a soldier who fought for OIL and the right to destroy our beloved Earth. I am so sorry. But the Earth will shake the human race off of it like "Dust in the Wind". I am so sorry to my children. I was a culprit in the demise of humanity. I am so sorry.
You were a grain of sand in the whole story glad to see you have become more aware Now you are even better equiped to fight the good fight. Your expereince can help others before they go down the wrong path, Thank you for sharing.
I am crushed at how illiterate/not ignorant, but illiterate so many are. I appologize Mitch-Johnson. The older gennerations are the scum that put us here to play catch up. When have you heard any of them say they were wrong or that they are sorry for being so dumb. It's funny how all of the intellects are not afraid to post their names and the nay sayers hide behind accronyms and tag names. They should hide. thankfully they'll die soon. They eat too many potato chips and smoke too many cigarettes any way and no one will remember them because they accomplished nothing within their life times any way.
Which one of the older generations are you referring to? It is most arrogant from you to point fingers and not seen your own mistakes; unless you are among the perfect people that thinks to have found all the answers for humanity and the environment. That would make you dangerous for sure. Hope your generation will be able to solve the existing problems and difficulties we are facing and will be facing taking into account that you are part of the problem.
it's amazing to me that there are so many ways to fix our problems yet, those that have seized power have no desire to. things are getting worse and worse in the US but the DOWJONES is at record highs, what does that tell us? it tells us that they want things this bad
Of course it's perfect distraction(& that's basically what it's function is), while has someone got SO much that they are able to manipulate the entire world financial/stockmarket ALONE? Scarey, disturbing, obvious, and where is that pesky compound again?
Typical Amerikan denial. Put your hands over your eyes and ears and claim that because they can't see it, it either doesn't exist or is not happening. For whatever it's worth by the time Amerikans wake up from their fluoride-induced stupor (if they ever do!), it will be entirely too late.
no real talk of population growth. American, we to often think it is all about us. The Chinese will be the global leader. The one with the gold, calls the tune. Maybe by that time we will be third behind the Indians. We will hit the breaking point, and then the bottle neck.
I think we have already passed the tipping point. If we do something about green house gases and clear up the skies, the oaone is so thin we would all die of sun cancer anyway. We are in the damned if we do damned if we don't position. IF we stopped it all now we would keep heating up and have extreme weather for the next 30 years at least. As we are not going to do anything things will get more intense and the planet will become unlivable. Unless these billionaires have enclosed cities somewhere here or on the dark side of the moon or someplace...they are screwed along with us.
weird, that Americans don't change until it's too late, while many European countries (scandianavia, germany) are already trying to get independent from fossil fuels very actively
(this documentary is hilariously over the top though, global warming won't "strike" in 100 years)
That's because Amerika is afflicted by the hubris of empire.
ho do you know? study climate feedback.. its happened before...
Yes...and who was burning the fossil fuels then?? What was the human footprint then?? The last ice age meltdown was part of a cycle...a cycle we're always in...the universe is in...there is proof of global warming on Mars! We WILL enter another ice age...probably not in our time...but this current warming trend is cyclical..
And btw...alternative energy resources have existed for quite sometime now..very advanced & simple solutions...but 'they' can't put a meter on it & bill you for it...therefore finite fuel/resources will remain until it's depleted..but keeping people in fear & self blame so in the end 'they' can say.. "well you people didn't want the change bad enough...so we just supplied your demand".
Don't believe me?? Why outlaw hemp? Why label Paul Pantone as crazy? There are SO many examples but those are enough to go on if you're so inclined to do the research..
This is all about capitalism...follow the money.
ahh more global warming bs.. while my city is having one of the coldest years in recent times.. Now solar power.. are you kidding me? Do you know how inefficient solar power is? I can't watch any more of this.
Time to bury your head in the sand again. That will make the problem go away for sure.
eventually won't have to listen this, History has a habbit of silencing conservatives (those who seak to maintain the past) by definition is impossible. Your ideas are dying.
Your city is cold, well then its solved. Thanks for the in depth analysis.. Next time save the key strokes. Inefficient solar power... This is how my father sounds... And he admits he's too close to the grave to care. At least take some time to understand the issue. It will change everything and 90% of the people who brought you the internet, pestisides and the airplane: Scienntists. Take a moment thank mr Einstein for his contribution to WWII and at least listen. Its real and its a problem everyone else in the world is treating this seriously but a small number of conservatives in this country.,. It's time to concede lest be remebered for misguided attempts to maintain status quo amd leading us blindly into the abyss.
The KOCK Brother who are dependent on the tarsands for their fortune is behind all the anti climate change propaganda and the tea party as well. Powerfull forces and we have a Prime Minister who was groomed by these fascists and we have the tea party north in power up here in good old Canada who would have ever imagined. Well that is what propaganda and the media and money can accomplish these days.
World Leaders? Who's interests do world leaders act on? Experts? Really? In the patent office in Washington DC are buried the ideas and solutions that experts in days gone by. Tesla for example. There are so many ways for us to stop using oil it overwhelms. The oil industry does not want these ideas to see the light of day. Money. If the USA did not spend 40% of its budget on war, we would have the funds to develop alternatives to burning hydrocarbons but we would have to stop manufacturing weapons that are sold globally. These people would have to get new jobs. WE are not going to do that folks. The hubris of humanity and the psychopaths that governments, corporations and religions are run by are not going to suddenly become humble or reflective. They think they are smarter than nature despite evidence to the contrary.
What is the motivation for this film? Fear? Who made this film? What outcome did they hope to have from making it?
I have suspicions about that. Buy Seeds and plant them. You will not have to wait 100 years for this to play out.
Thank yuo for some inteligent thoughts it seems to be a rarity in response to this article. The point is to that oceans coming up 2 inches isn't the real problem. it's changing ocean currents and convections. Its too many people. who are going to move north and a compition with china that could lead to all out war. Mass instinction. No civilization in history has survived all eventually die from over population or natural disaster or war. Some prop back keeping the same name but all have died out. Why are we different? That's what I want to know.
And it is the war machine the uses most of this oil as well.
Pretty much all the fresh water is usuable for consumption, alaska, greenland, north pole, south pole, we can melt them down and drink them. heck we can desalinate the oceans, we ain't going to run out of water. We can even find naturally occuring hydrogen and mix it with oxygen in the air. When the sun goes out we are all screwed, hopefully man will have mastered inter galatic space travel in a couple billion years when that happens
Missed the point. Ocean currents are affected and suddenly 7 billion people have to relocate and reduce in numbers. Over simplification of a complex idea is a fatal mistake.
If the gulf stream gets to coldf rom melting snow in the Arctic it won't be able to keep the North Atlantic warm it won't reach that far...ice age come out of global warming.
So now 'they' can sell you fluoridated bottled water...yumm
The sea? You do you that it isn't drinkable. About 3% of the world's water is freshwater, but less than 1% is usable for consumption. Freshwater will become the new oil.
You will be the first in line to be cull.
@ mendy ha
Ever heard of desalination plants ? We just need to wait until solar power becomes cheap enough and all the oceans on earth can be turned into drinking water. Since solar power is doubling in capacity every 18 months it's just a matter of time. I believe that any global warming issues will be dealt with before they become a existential problem through the exponential growth of technology.
Um, just one little problem: As the desalination process moves forward, what do you do with all the corrosive salt? It is a big problem, and one that has always curtailed the idea of using ocean water.
Hehe... Never have I seen such a determined campaign of denial than in this comment section. Enjoy the future, kiddies!!
What a hoax and so onesided.
Not enough water? have you heard of the sea? I believe a Better suggestion is to cull the stupid people!
haha, you got to be kidding ? Pure propaganda. If you believe this documentary, there is no hope for you either way. I am not going to waste my time explaining. Your on your own.
What would the WHO know about agriculture and biological systems of the planet?
Even the WHO admits that "technically we can feed everyone on the planet"
Its by design that we are experiencing hardship. A lesser # in population is easier to control. Thats what the owners want. Less of us.
There you go. David wins the prize! We're all slaves, and our owners have decided it's best if we downsize.
See you in the camps!
Not for nothin' but people don't spawn...salmon surely would take offense as such an image.
@ Lary Nine Great link thanks
As supporting evidence to my comment on 205
@Mr. Majestik~ "@ Lary Nine Did you say the earth is coming to an end???"
No. You're right, I did not. I argued for an open-minded, creative approach to a group of serious problems which will continue to grow in severity into the future unless we take steps to solve them. These problems, I said, are directly related to the footprint of human civilzation and not God's Wrath. As such they're solvable.
Additionally, I agree with what you've been saying 100%.
@ Lary Nine Did you say the earth is coming to an end??? I didn't read that in your posts but maybe I missed it...I can't argue with anything I remember reading...but Creato seems to think you are hyping the "end times." Anyhow, I have given up on leaving the world a better place for my kids, I mean I haven't stopped trying, I collect recyclable plastics and glass per his 6 yr old request... but the train has left the station and we are way too far behind to really impact the set of dominos we have set in motion... POPULATION is the core issue to be addressed and no one in the public forum is addressing or even skimming close to talking about this ...therefore we are done and will reap the rewards of our short-sightedness...
I like the SOTU address the other night...I would love to see all Americans get behind the idea that leading the way in alternative sustainable energy will pay huge huge dividends for our economy, but the problem is companies will outsource the jobs, the creation will happen here but the production will be elsewhere... thank to the business friendly deluded republicans.
I agree with everything you both said (jack1952 & Mr Majestic) however I would add that if we don't start as soon as possible to address the constellation of problems that will accrue globally from this "change", we'll see famine, war and just about every other curse noted in the Apocalypse of John---and I'm no Bible believing, endtimes guy!
Obama touched on several strategies we need to implement in his SOTU address--- green cars, energy conservation, alternative energy; etc., although nobody is hitting on the problem of population explosion hard enough except the Chinese...and they won't stop screwing like gerbils anyway.
We need to find a new "go-to" primary energy resource. Electricity will always be a principal end user product but it's transitional... so what will drive the turbines? Fossil fuels [incd. coal] still comprise 80% of the fuel to heat the water to turn the turbines. Will we be looking to hydroelectric, nuclear, solar, wind, bio-fuels. When will we phase it in worldwide? We can solve the problems but we have a big engineering challenge and we have to control population.
Its not really about any particular issue being true or false, its about the tone. You compare peak oil and global warming against 9-11 "truthers" and the "buy gold" hype. Peak oil for example is based on the idea of the depletion of a finite resource that is central to modern society. The core ideas are sound; one day oil will certainly run out. When that point comes, it will certainly change our society, but to assume it'll mean total civilization collapse and the end of the world is nonsense. That would be like screaming about the impending doom of "peak whale production" in the 19th century. Yes, that point came, and yes, it changed society, but the end of the world? Nope.
At the center of the concern over global warming and climate change is the idea of the conservation and sustainable development of Earth's natural environments, ecosystems, resources, and species. Nothing wrong with that, certainly. But is global warming going to murder our children in their sleep with freak tsunamis, render Earth's soil lifeless and uninhabitable, and kill millions or billions through extreme weather and famine, leading to total civilizational collapse (and the extinction of all the polar bears too)? I'm not holding my breath.
The list goes on and on... yes, there is an element of truth to most topics about contemporary issues like this (some more than others). Many of these issues do demand our serious and reasoned attention. But the TONE that marks all these debates (on pretty much every side of the ideological spectrum nowadays) is: "OMG listen to me!! My issue is the most biggest and most important problem IN HUMAN HISTORY!!! Do what I say OR WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!1"
That's the part where I call BS, and that's the point when an argument loses any real credibility with me. Fearmongering (the use of an emotional appeal, particularly to fear and panic) does to me in a debate or discussion of contemporary issues what a completely vacuous and ignorant mind does to a girl with a cute face. Nothing is a quicker buzz kill.
@ Lary Nine Touch`e ...well stated point of reason! Right the "end of the world" is a bit overblown but clearly our planet and way of life will change drastically for Americans
...On the other hand, 3rd world countries will just be in the same spot they are today...relatively no change.
@ Lary Nine
Like I said oil depletion is a problem. It does not mean the end of the world. It is the end of the world as we know it today. Third world countries will especially go through very difficult times. It is a time of change. Change is not inherently bad. The changes that are coming may actually be good for us over time. That sober approach is the hard work, innovation and optimism that I eluded to in my previous post.
Do you understand the scope of the problem? Oil depletion is not just about fuel for internal combustion engines. It's about everything. Plastics, clothes, food processing, transportation, 1,001 other things that depend upon fossil fuels technology. 100 years ago the world's population was less than 1/3 what it is today. And this technology has been directly linked to sustaining this expansion of global population. Can't you see how with 5 times as many people by 2035, the reduction of abundant oil impacts survival big time? It's real. I'm not advocating panic. I'm advocating a sober approach to the problem---starting NOW!
Peak oil will be a problem but it's not the end of the world. 100 years ago we seemed to manage without an oil culture. We feel change is bad but why should this be true? The change to an oil culture brought to many of us a life style never possible before. With innovation, hard work and optimism maybe more people on this planet can have a better life with new energy sources.
1. This is because every current generation is alive in real time not history. Real time always makes things more urgent. It's the only place where the inhabitants can effectively do anything ....No?
2. What you say is true but it doesn't make the issues of concern false either. False issues and true issues sound the same from the crowd ---that's why the phoney shills use it. To conflate real, science-based issues like peak oil and global warming with hucksters saying "buy gold" and selling conspracy theories is not a good way to discern which is true and which false.
1) Every generation wants to feel like THEIR generation is the one facing the biggest, most insurmountable, most unique, hardest-to-solve, life-as-you-know-it-changing problems. We don't live in a perfect world, but the steady progress of knowledge, science, technology and human innovation (along with basic market economic forces to maintain resource management/recycling and drive the transition from fossil to alternative energy sources) will get mankind through these problems as it has countless times in the past. Relax, the sky is probably not going to fall. Put your soapbox away and enjoy life.
2) The more shrill the screeches that the sky is falling and doom is nigh, the bigger the load of BS someone wants to sell you. Being afraid makes you malleable. Every Cassandra screaming about peak oil, 2012, global warming, buy gold, 9-11 is an inside job, terrorism, blah blah blah... they all want to do one or more of the following:
a)get you to buy their book/product/service.
b)get you to vote for their candidate/agenda.
c)get you to donate to/volunteer for their organization.
d)terrify you to capture your interest long enough to bolster ratings and advertising revenue.
I thought it was pretty good. Very thoughtful, well reasoned and backed-up by good science. The animated character driven story was nice too. It was better than most of the climate-based apocalypse documentaries that I've seen... like Michael Ruppert, Reiman Perskovitch, Jared Diamond, and Brigitta Zeidleret,et al.
@Stephen gOod poiNt dude :D
Dude ThIs aInt Gonna HappeN...... buT we'r not That Sure Either :P
I wish I had an edit on these posts... my first comment was directed at MrMajestik, not MrImposter :-p
I do not like this doc simply because I think it skews its view of future technological growth in order to support a position that is far more ideological than scientific. Regardless of my personal opinion of Mr. Van Jones, which is not very good, it cannot be argued that he has any scientific credentials to add to the discussion. I feel his inclusion in this documentary is simply evidence that it is in no way a scientific view of what is or even may be comming. It is, rather, an ideological view. Great man or not, Van Jones is NO Scientist.
To answer an earlier question, regarding what I find dangerous to the Tree-Hugger view... The biggest threat is that the idea of limiting technological growth leads inevitably to authoritarian control. Which thoughts or scientific ideas should we be sweeping under the rug in our misguided attempts to save humanity?
You assert that I, or anyone else, has a right to disagree and continue living the way we do... This very documentary makes an assult on the idea that the "American Way of Life is Non-Negotiable."
I think anyone can agree that continuing in a Finite Oil-Driven society is completely unsustainable. That is not what is being argued. The logical fallacy is caused by assuming that system itself, if allowed to evolve naturally, will *not* change and adapt (evolve) into something that is more sustainable. It is my position that this is already happening and that the primary drag-force slowing it down is the doom-and-gloom "Climate Change Culture" that lacks the vision to see the benefits these exponentially growing technologies will one day provide us with.
Before cars were mass produced, many speculated that cars would spell the end of Humanity as we know it. This was based on the false premise that "Humans are meant to walk, not drive." While the car did introduce vast changes to society, it is hard to argue that they have not been a net-benefit to humanity as the average life-spans of the cultures who use the technologies continues to trend upwards.
In my "Ideal World," our beloved planet will be highly protected. For I invision a day in which none of the basic resources we need to survive are harvested from this planet, but rather come from Outter Space. Before you dismiss this thought on the sole basis of incradulity, you should look into the ideas of Ray Kurzweil, Stephen Wolfram, and others that are ushering in a brave new age for Humanity. We now control our own evolution, something that has never happened before in the history of this planet. Does this present new existential threats? Undoubtedly it will, but my faith in Humanity itself is willing to see it through to the end. The biggest threat is relinquishing control of our own future and forever subjugating ourselves to the whims of a very cruel natural world.
The funny thing is I think our goals our similar, its only our paths that differ.
And the moral of the story: try not to fix things and take a double dose of airborne before you travel.
@ ImPoster & Jeigh I have had a good time with this back and forth...
Just to clarify... Belief, trust, and confidence sound not be used interchangeably with "Faith." FYI, from years of conversation with religiously deluted people who use "faith" as a tool. So that term to me is "loaded"
Anyhow, about 1/2 way through Collapse... I think you will find this very interesting and not "dramatized" as this doc was.
@ Imposer you are correct...the nearest star is 1 au away :)))
I checked 171, and I didn't claim the nearest star was 5 million ly away, I rounded it off to 5. I guess when you're talking fantasy stuff, what is a .63 ly difference??? Your next sentence conveys a complete lack of rational thought and understand of what it would take to reach a livable planet roughly 29,000,000,000,000 miles away... and then there is the return trip to pick up the rest of humanity! =)) So I guess my point is, and maybe I misinterpreted your comments, but it is NEVER gonna happen and to think so is delusional. So whether you believe everything stated in this doc or not, so not "erring on the side of caution" just seems stupid! There is no debate, climate change is happening, warmer or colder, it is changing, but that isn't all that this doc and others have pointed out as problems.
"This is the best planet you know of because you don’t trust math." Wow! That is a odd leap in logic, and I trust math more than I do faith!
Feel free to comment on other comments I have made... You need some clarity in your life!
Once again, I didn't follow the previous back and forth, I only chimed in about a subject of my expertise. I would however like to point out.. as I did, all the way back at #49 or wherever; You are arguing with someone that shares you opinion! And it is still not helping any of us with anything!
@ TheImposter. You can take whatever I have said, however you want...except personally. I can write with a fervor that is really difficult to defend, especially if I know what I'm talking about. I have said all I have to say about hydroponics with you. I would however, like to point out, the same thing I said above. You both basically share the same opinion. Thank you gentlemen, and have a goodnight.
“We really must shoot for the stars as a species, our leaders seem to glad to march us the same direction as the dinosaurs”. After you replace "shoot for the stars" with set high goals and "the same direction as the dinosaurs" with to extinction(since it was directed @Stephens same comment it makes sense. It becomes... We really must set high goals as a species, our leaders seem to glad to march us to extinction.
I do agree that considering the dinosaurs extinct is idiosyncratic at best, it could be argued that a mass genocide of our species would be considered a similar extinction event. If we went farther back the evolutionary chain due to loss of knowledge. If it happened tomorrow 200 years from now they may be rediscovering things we already knew.
As Arthur Clarke 3rd law states "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." I only hope some magic, and some resource management policy's of whats left comes along soon. I'm sure you will agree there. Really the only hope for humanity I see comes in the form of Co-operation. Billions of people just saying wtf we need to do this now or perish into nothingness slowly. Throwing away their insignificant differences. Forgiving past mistakes and transgressions. Then hunkering down and hitting the grinding stone so to say. Its a long shot but hey the possibility is still there and the more people that hope the better the chance. Look how religion turned out.
Aeroponics is when the plant roots are not in water... they are sprayed with mist to water and deliver nutrients. I'm guessing this solved the problem of suffocation. What your referring to is "water aeration" and I'm completely aware of that. The first link I provided is a setup in Canada that will produce economic gains after 18 years(due to high start-up costs) and is in a climate that you claimed it wouldn't work. It also shouldn't be hard to prove me wrong since like I said I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. I also keep my posts short and to point by not inserting personal attacks. If you don't attack peoples characters your more likely to be taken seriously. Also providing links to knowledge your a master in shouldn't be hard if i can research things on the fly with no foreknowledge in new subjects.
First of all; Elitists don't waste time trying to teach ignoramuses a few things to help them out in this world.
Secondly, you are right. I completely hallucinated "its easy"
So about the plants that can't be grown hydroponically. Yes, it does mean you wont be able to; unless you modify them so much they become another plant. Many of these are found in the desert. Some plants don't take water up through their roots genius. And water can kill plants easily. Ever heard of agricultural flood disasters. If you weren't researching this as you go, you would know that in hydroponics; if you don't constantly aerate your water source, your plants will suffocate and DIE! (we better call this aeroponics, since its the exact same technique) This is another one of the many power drains of hydroponics, you have not considered in your fantasy. But as you mentioned above... I haven't added any cute little links, so I have no idea what I'm talking about.
Now, if you want to go to the north pole and grow whatever crop it is that's commercially viable enough to make it worth while and profitable, (or even feed yourself) go right ahead. I challenge you to find me that crop. Remember, you have to keep your greenhouse, your equipment, your outside structure, and your a#*, warm enough to produce something, that you can then live off of. It's a great challenge, and your very optimistic (stubborn/egotistical/over sensitive), so go for it.
And while some plants can grow with very little light, they cannot grow without water. But, in your defense, and in the name of "imagination land"; recent scientific discoveries have created a life form that can live in arsenic, without phosphorus, one of the four fundamental elements for life. So anything is possible, but I really thought we were looking for real solutions here.
I'm going to jump ahead here and tell you this. If Hydrofarm is your source for anything hydroponic, you will never learn a thing. Hydrofarm is a shady commercial entity that makes junk products to sell to amateurs that have no idea what they are doing.
Let me make this perfectly clear. AEROPONICS is a type of HYDROPONICS. It is a catchy little name to also sell products to people that don't know what they are doing for a ridiculously inflated price. Arguing these claims with sales pitches, that your pulling off manufactures websites is not going to cut it. And No.. I do not agree with you. Aeroponics is grown in water! Water infused with pressurized oxygen. Your opinion is irrelevant. It's not a matter of opinion. It is a fact. I grow in Aeroponics. I built my own system. One of many!
About growing seasons and growing locations. Okay dude... if that's really the way you want to look at this, then go ahead. You seem much too intelligent to lie to yourself, just so you can desperately try to win an argument against someone that will have you chasing your tail all day long; but alas, maybe I'm wrong. If you want to learn something... understand we are talking about practical solutions... Or I am anyway. If you really want to live in your fantasy world. Go right ahead. But I guarantee you wont be eating any vegetables!
As far as the end of your post. It just gets embarrassing. I agree. You haven't learned a thing. You can't get away from your ego long enough to learn; which is probably why your desperately pulling information off junk product websites, and defending your absolute lack of any experience as proudly as you can. I have been through this once too many on this post. I know when I have been wasting my time, and my arm is tired from whipping you. Someday if you ever get around to actually experimenting with hydroponics, you are going to look back on this moment and think "man, I am such a d#&*." Then you will have learned something.
Oh sorry I guess I didn't ask you a questions...I did to Stephan? My mistake. "We really must shoot for the stars as a species, our leaders seem to glad to march us the same direction as the dinosaurs" I would really like to understand what you meant by this? Back this up? You know the dinosaurs were likely killed by catastrophic environmental change not because they were overpopulated, over consuming, and irresponsible with their care of the planet! I guess the planet could sustain 50 Billion if we were living on 500 calories a day and didn't have cars, you may be right about that, but I guess there is the quality of life issue. Well tell me who our leaders are leading us in the same direction as the dinosaurs??? Also the dinosaurs lived 100s of millions of years before they were extinct and many continue to be present in various ecosystem in 2011...I think the issue of this doc is our ability to successfully manage this planet's future with limited resources ... magically technology not assumed!
In response to comment 171 to make you happy. I'd like to point out to you that I am smart and the closest star is not 5 million light-years away. Its 1 Astronomical Unit... The distance from the Earth to the sun. The next closest is Alpha Centauri, located about 4.37 light years away. This is the best planet you know of because you don't trust math. I have no problem placing faith in a planet I have not seen but statistically will be out there. Either one close to ours without the human disease occupying it or worse then ours with a set of species that live in a sustainable co-existence with their habitat and each other. I would respond to your comment directed at others but its impolite.
You didn't ask a question, you made condescending remarks which seems to be your specialty. You never post anything worth calling a discussion so yea your posts are pointless. I back up EVERYTHING I say when asked to. I will admit when I'm wrong and have almost advanced past the need to be condescending of others. His remarks we're very elitist IMO because he added 4 or 5 attacks on my character in his post, not including things he said I was incorrect on without adding proof. In open debate on a scientific matter proof is all that matters. You almost beat him though with 3 in just a couple pointless lines. Feel proud...
@ The ImPoster Well that is an easy way to avoid looking foolish... just refuse to answer the question...you should run for office :D You seem to have as much qualification as Palin.
So forgive me if your platitudes are taken seriously
I love it when people are "called on the carpet" (figure of speech) and cannot muster a defense of their previous stated faith ... they start calling the other person...elitist! LMFAO! Perhaps you should just drop the Im and t from your login name!
Also where the heck did i say its easy... It surely is one of the most complex areas of research to figure out what a million types of plants require as far as nutrients. I checked my posts and I've never used the word easy in any on this page.
Doh! That's gonna hurt!
The majority of your information on hydroponics is romanticized mis-information. You owe it to yourself to tear down the curtain.
As a MASTER hydroponist, I assure you my information comes from years of experience and research. I will first however agree with you completely that hydroponics is superior to any other method of farming.
Where you have it wrong: "This can eventually allow any crop to grow anywhere in the world"
- There are millions of species that cannot be grown via hydroponics.
- They cannot be grown anywhere in the world. Examples. You cannot grow using hydroponics anywhere that is not accessible to power; you cannot grow hydroponics in environments of low temperatures, regardless of wether or not you have a greenhouse. Only with the use of certain micro bacteria can you grow many plant species in temperatures above one-hundred degrees.
"Does (sic) not need any pesticides if its in green houses."
-Absolutely false. There are plenty of pests that can invade a hydroponic garden in droves. If you are using clones, you entire garden can be wiped out in less than a week without a single defense against it. Clones being all the same plant technically, are all vulnerable to the same pests, viruses, or bad bacteria. Every commercial hydroponic farm use gallons of pesticides each day. The majority of them use chemical pesticides, harming people, plants and the environment.
"Its also not restricted by growing seasons as you can grow in winter."
- Once again, it IS absolutely restricted by growing seasons. Even the best greenhouses have to be warmed to a minimum sixty degrees. If you want to grow in the winter your going to need grow lights. The most common are high powered sodium lights. The average wattage is 600. A very small green house would have a minimum of ten. That is six-thousand watts rolling through the power meter.
"The only problem is that its not “Mass Production” in the sense that for example…"
-Please Google "Commercial Hydroponics" Once again, you could not be more incorrect.
"This can be grown even in Canada using the right systems, even though its a equatorial crop. Simply by putting it in a contained environment(since its a tree) such as a greenhouse. Then using a hydroponic contained system underneath the soil to maintain its optimum growth nutrients and minerals."
-As I mentioned above, this could not be done in Canada with any kind of economical or environmental advantages.
Your latter statement is not hydroponics at all. It is a form of unconventional irrigation.
"Hydroponics is the best solution for farming as these can be produced without soil in only water. ‘Soilless culture’ is the broader term
- "Soilless culture" is not the correct term for what you are trying to define. Soilless culture is using a medium such as drywool or clay pellets.
"(I just discovered) Aeroponics being plants grown with no soil or water.
- You have discovered NOTHING. Plants cannot be grown without water!!!
Aeroponics is a hydroponic method that infuses high levels of oxygen with water... silly rabbit.
Almost EVERY statement you made about hydroponics was absolutely INCORRECT. You should also look up all of the synthetic chemicals that are used to produce the majority of hydroponic fertilizer, AND how most growers dispose of them (illegally)
Had you not thrown around this information with such confidence, I may not have been so critical of your assessment, however, you spoke as if you know what your talking about, and you are clearly completely in the dark about this subject, and I suspect many more.
The most ridiculous thing you said was that "it's easy"
This solidifies the fact that you haven't the slightest clue about hydroponics... oh, and hydroponics literally means "grown in water"
I hope you have learned a few things here. I have taken some time to sort you out. Mostly I hope you have learned; Next time you quote Einstein, you will utilize a quote that does not promptly insert your foot into your mouth (“Imagination is more important than knowledge.”), and hopefully spend much more time getting the "knowledge" part down, before bull*#!*&% yourself and others with your fantastical imagination.
Terra Preta is defiantly interesting and could be used to help the current agriculture problem in the developing world. Hydroponics is what I feel me must switch to for future gains though, as it can be soil-less agriculture. This can eventually allow any crop to grow anywhere in the world or even in space without much effort. The main benefit to us is its 30x more efficient in water usage. Dose not need any pesticides if its in green houses. Most things would be able to be produced locally almost eliminating transportation costs. Its also not restricted by growing seasons as you can grow in winter. The only problem is that its not "Mass Production" in the sense that for example... Cacao (Cocoa or chocolate) is grown mainly in Côte d'Ivoire 37.4%, Ghana 20.7%, and Indonesia 12.7%. That equals 70.8% of the worlds entire production in 3 developing countries.
This can be grown even in Canada using the right systems, even though its a equatorial crop. Simply by putting it in a contained environment(since its a tree) such as a greenhouse. Then using a hydroponic contained system underneath the soil to maintain its optimum growth nutrients and minerals. Which would be Terra Preta in the sense that its soil manipulated to the desired outcome. With the seasonal crops such as tomatoes, carrots, onions, cabbages, ect. Hydroponics is the best solution for farming as these can be produced without soil in only water. 'Soilless culture' is the broader term, Hydroponics being water based, and (I just discovered) Aeroponics being plants grown with no soil or water. There are other forms of soilless agro but I've ranted far enough ;).
As for the rest of your comment I completely agree. We really must shoot for the stars as a species, Our leaders seem to glad to march us the same direction as the dinosaurs. Big Biz relief for more little man suffering. I don't think HAARP is completely dangerous but it shouldn't be used for more then research atm as its new to our species. If we can change the climate simply by breathing and burning fossil fuels, I would hate to see what we can do to the Ionosphere, which is responsible for keeping the suns radiation to a minimum and without it life would cease to exist. As far as politics goes its all a game it seems and the only policy I support is isolationism... Only because then we can sustain ourselves and not be reliant on robbing less advanced cultures. Heck then when we get good we can show them the way forward. Left and Right is just dualism on crack. In closing I leave you with this... I have no degree but...
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."
interesting that it took until 2085 until US citizens realised that their leaders don't give a damn about us nor the destruction of the world. Many of us Europeans already know that world's leaders are not to be trusted.
I think America will collapse much sooner than this, maybe by 2035. Good riddence to them. The US are so out of touch with reality and think money, the American way of life and science will solve our problems. It is the American way of life itself which is causing all the problems.
Is the advance you were speaking of Terra Preta? If so, I've seen a couple of films dedicated to that Ancient Amazonian technology and, I must say... It seems like an exciting possibility for the future.
Despite my views on Climate Change, I am not right-wing politically. In truth I'm fairly moderate politically.. I tend to side with the left on social issues while favoring the right on issues of economic importance.
That being said, I agree that we're cutting down trees at an alarming rate without a firm-enough understanding of what it does to the various mineral cycles in our atmosphere. It is also my belief, however, that our understanding of these things tends to grow-change faster than the actual damage that is being done. This is the cornerstone of my faith in technology.
Regarding HAARP... unfortunately I would not be up to a debate on this technology. Apart from seeing a few interesting videos showing strange clouds/contrails, I don't really know enough about the issue to have an informed opinion. You've peaked my interest, however, and I'll have a look at some of the docu's on this site that are dedicated to the topic.
As a side-note.. I really wish the President didn't kill the Mars program. Werner Von Braun presented plans to President Kennedy in 1969 that, if followed, would have allowed us to land on mars in 1984. Since then every leader who has followed has lacked the vision to really shoot for the ultimate "Survival Plan," which is self-sustaining colonies on a planet or body other than Earth. It seems to be getting further and further away.
Until we make that jump, and begin harvesting resources from outter space, our species will be at the whim of the next unexpected/unpreventable disaster. The dinosaurs did not have a space program and they checked out early. I hope we do not make the same mistake.
I agree technology will advance much faster then this doc shows. I can think of one advance in particular that would crush world hunger, reduce our reliance on fossil fuels for agriculture, take the food market outta Monsanto's patented GMO hands, create jobs everywhere in the US, and make HAARP a non-needed technology because it could prove to be dangerous. Solution greenhouse HYDROPONIC agriculture... Researchers discovered in the 19th century that plants absorb essential mineral nutrients as inorganic ions in water. In natural conditions, soil acts as a mineral nutrient reservoir but the soil itself is not essential to plant growth(from wiki). So why are we killing trees that will reduce CO2 and convert it to oxygen, for more arable land is only reason I see. There's more benefits to it to and I can easily back my evidence of it up to if you would like to debate it. I would prefer to debate the dangers of HAARP if your up to that challenge though good sir.
To be frank, the agenda-driven climate nonsense angers me deeply. If you want to take that as an apology for "name-calling" you may, though I consider it more of an explanation. The exact same crowd who now pushes Global Warming (excuse me, Climate Change) was pushing the idea of Global Cooling in the 70's and 80's. Their solution, oddly enough, was strangely similar... Impose overbaring regulations and taxes on all of the Worlds biggest producers. That in and of itself will cause much of the unrest seen in this documentary, not Climate Change.
I can think of no other "Scientific Debate" that splits itself so neatly on Party Lines. That's your first clue that something other than science is going on. The solutions are all about global transfer of wealth and power and *yes*, as an American Citizen... I find some of the ideas comming out of the tree-hugger camp very very dangerous to our future.
To answer your question.. My degree is in Computer Science, and I see a great future for Humanity if the technologies we are developing are allowed to evolve naturally. People like Van Jones have no place in a scientific discussion, its that simple. His agenda is 1-world government under socialist rule. He is a radical communist, just google him and you'll see this. He is not a scientist and regardless if you support his ideology, his inclusion in this Documentary shows that it is a Very 1-sided view and does little to get at the truth of the matter.
My question to you is this... Did you not find it somewhat disingenuous that ABC invisioned a future with 0 technological progress and massive changes to natural systems? Natural Systems change over the course of many thousands if not millions of years... whereas technology evolves at light-speed by comparison. If you want to imagine where we will be, technologically speaking, in 2080... just look back to the 1920's for a comparison... technology is evolving way faster than anyone at ABC would have you believe.
I laughed when they mentioned the "Anamatrix-Like" dispersion of sulfer dioxide as our "Technological Attempt" to stem climate change. Do we need to come off of oil, we'll certainly have to. Is it already happening naturally, yes. Do we need to sink the ship and transfer all of the worlds wealth to a few socialist power-elites in order to save ourselves, no.
@ Stephen That little line between them is a slash...short for and/or! I would say you are missing the point of this documentary! That at our present trajectory of population, consumption, and dwindling resources our consumer driven, fossil fueled, convenient life we take for granted will not survive if things do not change, that is it... If you don't believe it "drink, be merry" you are not required to be a concerned citizen of this country or the planet... It is funny, maybe a conspiracy but ALL the people who I would label as concern people or conservationists. I cannot say that about my right-wing associations...they seemed to be concerned about making and keeping a buck, no matter who they scr3w along the way!
I guess a much more significant problem here is that you wouldn't recognize fascist propaganda if it hit you in the a$$! Your degree is in what?
I am just curious as to why you feel the need to resort to childish tactics of name calling and dismissive rhetoric???
"Van Jones is an advocate for human rights and green jobs/policy"
-- What is green jobs policy? seriously??? It's a phrase yet to truly be coined, though Mr. Obama tried.. he quickly removed Van Jones from his staff when his communist writings began to be made publically. Quietly capitulating to a growing concern before it grew.
-- What, exactly, does an advocate for human rights and green jobs have to do with global warming?? Besides the political agenda, he has nothing to add to the topic. His inclusion as an "Expert" discredits this liberal trash-docu.
Enough Said lurker
Yep your right Stephan, Van Jones is an advocate for human rights and green jobs/policy ... has to be a communist. Perhaps you need to take some college classes on political science, you use words for which you no understando!
Nationalist is Correct....
MrMajestik is Wrong.
And one of the "Experts" is Van Jones.... OMFG, he's not a scientist, he's a friggin communist, plain and simple.
Don't be swayed by the liberal propaganda.
Guys might want to check this out... Collapse
I started watching it on Netflix... looked really good, but kinda depressing!
In a nutshell... the only thing these morons predict changing is earth's climate. They totally ignore the exponential growth of technology in areas such as Energy, Medicine, Nanotechnology, Quantum Computing... Ect...
THeir vision might as well have including the "Pony Express"
OH NO... THE PONY EXPRESS WILL FAIL IN 2080
@Midnight Run... It's funny how, when trying to call people out, for calling people out; you become the biggest %*** of them all. You haven't been paying enough attention, or you would realize that these conversations are on point with this subject matter and managing the issues. At 142 I stepped out of the "back and forth" as I had attempted before (SEE #59),and @146 I plugged another doc I felt relevant to the subject matter in this one. If you really feel informed enough to make judgments on these posts, go all the way up and read them from the beginning. I suggest you just exercise your free will and ignore them, instead of acting like Mother hen and trying to manage your chicks, while becoming the exact thing you are criticizing. This is known as a hypocrite. Thanks for your input though, very useful and productive, and so incredibly on point with the subject matter of the film. We have a great moderator, we don't need your fascist #*&!.
I is mind boggling how every "expert" that talks is an Author about some book about what they are talking about.
Earthships! Earthships! Earthships!
Check out "Garbage warrior".
You can always post your thoughts and comments midnight ride...
Sorry but some good suggestions to other interesting and insightful docs/information are made this way... Also we are discussing the issues presented in this doc... energy, populations, resources, and sustainability!
@jeigh - "Why do you have to insult everyone while trying to make your point? I give up on you; Your condescending and rude, and all of your nastiness takes away from your argument. You have serious issues."
@MrMajestik - "Liberalism is what has moved science forward, the ability to challenge deeply held beliefs is what began the scientific revolution…" Liberalism is a mental disorder.
@both of you - This is not the place... Yea, I clicked that little box to be notified of followup comments via email so I could hear the opinions of others about this doc. Instead my email was bombarded by the i@#$%^& rantings of you two f00#$.... Take it somewhere else like email, IM or just call each other, I don't care where. Stop making this place your personal platform to propagandize and preach.
I know your not lurking, I was kidding. I had already watched "Blue Gold"; being a desert rat, water conservation has always come instinctively for me. In fact, when I was a teenager, I had a job in Albuquerque NM, moving lawns. The majority of our clients lived in wealthy gated neighborhoods. After one summer I couldn't handle working for those audaciously ignorant losers any longer. Albuquerque had plenty of water restrictions, with heavy enforcement in the poorer neighborhoods, but not behind the large stucco walls. But besides the hypocrisy of their "special rights", I could not begin to understand the stupidity of having an acre or two of green lawn in the middle of a desert. Especially when you never saw the owners, but through the windows. I know who, and what you despise. I despise them as well. Attacking them, however, will never work. You have to let them think they are helping you, while rearranging the wiring under their noses. Same with religious freaks. Off to bed... enjoy that film, the possibilities are seemingly boundless.
@ Jeigh... =)) Lurking??? LMAO... No I just check the box underneath this box..."Notify me of follow-up comments via e-mail" I did get that in email today ...read description but was really wanting to catch up some other things...sounded interesting...amazing even... nevertheless...the weather is not the only issue I have addressed... the weather is the easy part, if we just had a mass planting of trees around the world we would naturally reduce CO2... resources...resources resources... did you watch or even check out Blue Gold??? Again, mankind just doesn't have a good track record with environmental compassion...not when a dollar or yuan is involved. I clicked the box again :)))
If your out there lurking... and I know you are; check out the new doc that was posted today. "Arduino". It is in it's infancy, but it seems like it could influence some serious environmental change.
@ Nationalist ... I love that "classical liberal principles" what do you mean when you say that??? Liberalism is what has moved science forward, the ability to challenge deeply held beliefs is what began the scientific revolution... It is conservatism and those that want the status quo that seem to keep us moving backwards or standing still. You post great ideas, but this still doesn't explain how society or the planet will actually be able to sustain people living longer, consuming more, and still talking about quality of life. I will be gone, so really don't care all that much, I suppose I have become a fatalist at this point. Tax breaks to corporations and the top 10% will produce jobs is propaganda!
This documentary is nothing but pseudo-scientific propaganda. The United States and the industrialized nations of North America, Europe, Asia, and Australia have possessed the technology required to adapt to the problems of global climate change and peak-petroleum production for over forty decades. These technologies were never employed to correct our current problems because conventional technology was more cost-effective to use at the time or this technology had political ramifications that politicians wished to avoid.
The current crisis that the United States faces is the result of its commitment to classical liberal principles that demonstrate themselves to be unable to address modern problems on a daily basis. We have the tools needed to maintain our standard of living if we will only be brave enough to utilize them when the time finally comes.
(1) NUCLEAR DESALINATION PLANTS: The United States will not be detrimentally affected by decreasing amounts of potable water needed for personal consumption or use in agriculture. Potable water needed for these purposes can be acquired by creating nuclear powered desalination plants. Such desalination facilities were patented during the mid twentieth century and have been in use since the 1970s. Potable water from these facilities can be transferred to large urbanized areas and agricultural areas through aqueducts or pipe lines in a manner that is similar to the way that natural gas and liquid petroleum are currently transported.
(2) MAGLEV TRANSPORTATION: The United States can decrease the amount of traffic on its interstate highways by the creation of a high-speed public transit system (i.e. bullet train) that can easily transport travelers from one large urban area to another urban area in a fraction of the time that travel by automobile would require.
(2/A) MAGLEV TRAINS/NUCLEAR SUBTERRENES: Since the 1970s, scientist in RAND corporation have developed a system of super-sonic underground transportation that would utilize magnets to propel a train through a vacuum tube over large distances. The underground tunnels needed for this project could be created with nuclear-powered tunnel boring machines (TBMs) which create tunnels at a fraction of the costs of traditional methods.
(3) NUCLEAR ENERGY: The United States can reduce the amount of petroleum and fossil fuels required for the production of domestic power consumption by the creation of large scale nuclear power program that utilizes uranium or thorium as fuel. Nuclear power can be designed to produce massive amounts of clean safe carbon-free energy for cities and towns in the United States.
(3/A) In addition to a substantial increase in nuclear power, other forms of power production can help the United States reach its energy consumption needs - solar energy plants and geo-thermal energy plants.
(4) GENETIC MODIFIED CROPS: Global agricultural consumption can be secured by genetic modification of food stocks. Science can achieve what successive centuries of selective breeding has achieved over the entire course of human history.
(5) POPULATION CONTROL/EUGENICS: The United States and other nations can maintain a self-sustaining population by imposing a legal limit of either one or two children per couple. These laws can be supported in conjunction with both a passive and active systems of eugenics which will ensure that each successive generation is increasingly free of habitual disease and mental and physical defect and grows up in bodies that are increasingly more aesthetically pleasing, athletic, and intelligent.
(5/A) INTERNATIONAL BARRIER: The United States can ensure that it does not suffer from a massive migration of resource poor people from Mexico and South America by militarizing the U.S. - Mexican border and constructing a large reinforced concrete barrier to seperate the two countries. While this solution may not be popular barriers have nonetheless demonstrated themselves to be effective solutions to mass migrations of people - few people could argue that the iron curtain did not prevent far more people migrating into the West than would have otherwise left Communist controlled Eastern Europe if the wall did not exist.
(6) NUCLEAR POWERED CARGO SHIPS: Global trade can be maintained and increased by the creation of massive nuclear power cargo ships that will not require the use of petroleum to transport materials across Atlantic and Pacific Oceans. These vessels can either be driven by propellers that utilize the electrical power generated by nuclear power or nuclear power water jets which have been patented since the 1970s. Since this technology was initially invented in the United States, this nation is posed to become the leader in international trade and transportation.
(7) NUCLEAR POWERED AIRCRAFT: Global aviation can be maintained by producing jet-powered aircraft that utilize energy sources other than petroleum for propulsion. New fuel sources include liquid hydrogen, liquid methane, liquid oxygen, or nuclear-powered propulsion with safety features included to substantially decrease the probability that large amounts of radioactive material would be released in the event of a crash or collision.
(7/A) SUPERSONIC & HYPERSONIC AIR TRAVEL: The United States and other nations should modernize aerial transportation by ensuring the supersonic transportation and hypersonic transportation becomes viable in the twenty-first century.
(7/B) NUCLEAR POWERED SPACE FLIGHT: Civil space programs could be maintained by renewing research and development into nuclear powered rocketry. In the United States, the NOVA propulsion program had an unparalleled legacy of safety and success until the program was cancelled by the Nixon Administration in the 1970s. If this program was resurrected humankind could once again travel to the moon and Mars at a fraction of the costs that conventional rockets require.
(8) CARBON-FREE AUTOMOBILES: The United States and other countries can ensure that automobiles are weaned from dependence on petroleum by providing funds to continue the development of hydrogen fuel cells that can be used to make hybrid automobiles that will also use ethanol or natural gas for propulsion when the hydrogen fuel cell is uncharged.
(9) WEATHER MODIFICATION: The United States and other countries can manipulate global weather patterns with the generation of ELF or VLF radio waves that can affect the function of ionosphere in order to produce weather conditions which can contribute to heightened agricultural production and greater snow fall over the globes ice caps. In the alternative, weather modification has been proposed via satellites and by artificial cooling of the world's oceans - in every case it would require an international effort to coordinate weather modification to satisfy global agricultural needs.
@ Jeigh ... LMFAO!!! I am a troll??? Really, because I want someone to be specific about what they think is "Kaaa Kaaa?" That is an ignorant comment, I don't think I am intentionally creating conflict for asking a basic question for someone to explain themselves... I think people who have higher levels of thought would make a rebuttal statement... I have not even begun to get cranky and you seem to keep projecting this demeanor on me that a bit exaggerated... Good make this the last time!
@Mr. Majestic... I did read his response. His intent is very clear. Once again he doesn't agree with you, and you attack him. Just like everyone else. You sir, are a bully. Once again; who are you to say what adds to a discussion. It added something for me. Just because he doesn't want to engage you in an argument. Not everyone needs to argue, like you seem to. How do you know he is uninformed. You don't. How do you know he is in denial? You don't. He didn't say enough for you to make these claims. You just get pissed off and start calling people names... once again, someone you know nothing about, and have no way of knowing anything about, is suddenly Right winged. And your talking about logic, with lots of capital letters. Now, I have betrayed myself by entertaining you once again. This will be the last time. So before I go, lets just get down to it, and call a spade a spade. YOU ARE A TROLL.
@ Jeigh I get the feeling that you side with the current psychology of the day and that everyone is a winner, everyone deserves a trophy, everyone deserves respect, all values are equally valid, etc etc...
Pyrrhus in posts 130 and 131 seemed much more condescending than I did in mine...why you focused on me... I really could give a shit less since I think is without much fantasy brainstorming that we will not work to make the planet and civilization sustainable... we wont make another 100 years...
And we had been warned ...'nough said!
@ Jeigh Now I am gonna get a bit snarky here...you have not read his post, you read mine but put a uninformed response together then start labeling me ****??? WOW... I just don't know what to say... if he is really high, really stupid, really ignorant of the issues, then we should just give him and everyone else who says "ignore the problem and it will go away" a pass???? Are you serious? Someone who is misinformed or in denial does not ADD to the discussion! It is no wonder we are heading down this path politically, environmentally, and spiritually. DON'T require REASON or RATIONAL thoughts? This sounds like right wing logic to me...I am not insulting I am just observing? Is that what you are proposing?
I didn't read his post. Nor do I care to. If you think the issues are so serious, why cant you learn to take others feelings more seriously. Who cares how he posts? That's the way he is, maybe he is really high; maybe he has a disability or is learning impaired, maybe he is not as eloquent as you, maybe he is learning to care and you are turning him off. I'm not looking into anything too deeply. Your just a ****; You constantly insult people and make fun of them, while promoting your cause. I try to avoid that kind of behavior, as it really does nothing for the cause or the betterment of the world. I'm just going to stay out of your conversations from now on. You do have someone that looks up to you though, and for them that is impossible. No need to reply, Just think about it.
You haven't seen my rude side yet :)))
@ Jeigh Come on... When someone posts response to this doc is 5 words long and uses the phrase a 2 year old would use... hmmmmm! I need more than that! I like the Cannabis too and I could still write a coherent response. I think you are overthinking this Jeigh... Really, I think I was nicely asking them to elaborate on their comment...
I think these are serious issues and when someone says it is Kaaaaa Kaaaaa... without anything specific... I am not being rude if I think this was a lame or childish post?
Here you go again. What is it your business how much time 420 vision spends on the pipe? Who are you to say what is "too much time" to begin with. Why do you have to insult everyone while trying to make your point? I give up on you; Your condescending and rude, and all of your nastiness takes away from your argument. You have serious issues.
@ 420 Vision
Could you be more....specific? "420 vision" makes me think you spend too much time on the pipe. So what is your 420 vision of an over populated and used up planet 100 years from now???
This doc is Kaaaaaaaaaaaa Kaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa !!!!!
I agree with Panth and lol, USA will be in the toilet long before 2100.
I like how they try to sell New York as having it all. "Oh we have a port and a river and access to farm land." Sweet jesus New York is the last place I would want to go when the shiite hits the fan.
I think the U.S is a great country but lets face it they are in debt like nobody's business, starting wars with everyone and living a life of excess and a sense of false entitlement. Tick tock, tick tock.
@ Atrophy I am North Idaho, about 100 km from BC Border, girlfriend is from Cranbrook and it is not so bad... I put on about 35,000 miles a year, I can handle these winters I prefer them and send all the Californians back to their dysfunctional state :)) Besides the summers and scenery make up for cold of winter ;)
I am in Canada and the winters here don't exactly rock but it can sometimes waltz.
Leafs rock though. Rock badly usually.
@Pyrrhus & MrMajestik
Come spend a winter here then tell me how much it rocks :P
Biggest flaw in this film is the assumption that a hotter climate equals droughts and lessening of rainfall creating deserts.
Higher temperatures = more evaporation. As the old saying goes, what goes up, must come down.
In addition to that, there are examples in history where higher earth temperatures lead to more rainfall and a more vegetation. We know that during the time of the Dinosaurs that the global temperature was much higher. It is even believed that there were no ice caps on either poles. Yet the oxygen content in the air was dramatically higher than today. Where did that oxygen come from is the planet was a big desert? The answer is obvious, there was more oxygen because there were more plants. There were more plants because there was more rainfall.
There have been times I've almost talked to the Blessed Virgin, Mary, after too many Margaritas. It's the tomato juice that brings it to life.
We have to realize that the end is here. I realy dont belive we have to wait that long time for everything to crash and stop. It will come to us very sooner than we expect!
@Pyrrhus, you know, everything after AT is a breeze. However, I am lost in the beginning, and only know what a subject is and not a subject line. could you try to rephrase it for me, I also don't get the capitalization and should this word make sense when I discover it, or will it be gibberish? I've come up with several different things, and one has me chasing insects, but no luck so far.
@Atrophy & @Jeigh & @MrMajestik:
I'm going to sign off, now. Maybe we'll meet again at the forum of another doc. Whatever one thinks about this documentary, it deserves at least one-thumbs up: it got us all talking!
“Had I the heavens’ embroidered cloths,
“Enwrought with golden and silver light,
“The blue and the dim and the dark cloths
“Of night and light and the half-light,
“I would spread the cloths under your feet:
“But I, being poor, have only my dreams;
“I have spread my dreams under your feet;
“Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.”
~ W.B. Yeats
Here's a little alter boy nostalgia:
"Et cum spiritu tuo."
Introibo ad altare Dei mei.
"Ad Deum qui letificat juventutem meam."
Your mom was looking to be a nun BEFORE, or AFTER, you were born (just curious (lol) :)
Btw, don't be telling Atrophy that "Canada Rocks!!!"
Canada is far too wholesome for that sort of thing.
@Mr. Majestic, The weather in NYC has really sucked. Two years ago, I would be jumping for joy and on the train north for weeks of snowboarding, but alas, I'm laid up and wont be boarding anytime soon. NYC has had many mild winters over the past six, seven years, and It isn't usually as bad as just fifty miles north. It's position in the bay usually keeps the snow away. Not this year. There has been lots of snow on the ground since Jesus fest and there is much more coming this week. So, it's all perspective, but from a hobbling around town perspective... not good. And for me... freezing.
@ Atrophy Canada Rocks!!!
@ Jeigh & Pyrrhus Love the discussion! For whatever reason we got to a bad start I am glad there are those that seem to live the "examined life."
@ Pyrruhus I was an unmolested alter boy!!! 3 years! I am well versed in many denominations ... :))) Yes the man behind the curtain... I know isn't it weird having that perspective when you were once such a believer 150%. My mom was looking to be a nun at one point ... Glad she saw the light or discovered what a penis was :)))
Anyhow, sure I will have to engage in this later
How's the weather back east eh?
@Pyrrhus- I got some laughs out of those posts, thanks! I'm actually not a BAC. I like you, saw the man behind the curtain and bolted. At a very early age. My grandparents were Russian Orthodox that jumped over to Catholicism for lack of churches in the states, (they moved from NYC to Wyoming, lol) and for the easy conversion. When I was about six years old, I had a complete freak out in mass (my mother told me if I didn't behave the devil would come and drag me to hell) and that was it. I made such a scene that we never went back... they were so ashamed (embarrassed). It taught me a valuable lesson though. Stand up against something you know is total BS. I am however not an atheist and to make me sound even more odd... I have/am creating my own Relosophy. It is not conventional in any way, and it's not about a God. I won't go into detail here, but I would share some details with you if we had a private line. Im not sure how to even do that without posting your personal info. It is so simple (my concept) you will probably think, why the hell didn't I think of it, and you may have already. It's 99% dogma free, and rooted in science. But, blah, blah, blah. Now I've let the nut out of the bag.
Mexico... first; twelve years in Europe is a feat and I will admit, I am a little jealous. Out of all the places in the world though, I am more drawn to Mexico than any. I suppose I don't have to tell you that media has a hay day with the reality of Mexico. I feel safer there than in the US. I have had my share of wild experiences, but that was of my own doing, not Mexico's. As for learning Spanish I would say I am almost fluent. I can have pretty deep conversations, but there is still a limit. I taught myself. When I was about twenty, I learned como se dice. (how do you say) and then just walked around for years asking what everything was called. For grammar, I did have to school myself with some language books, but for the tongue, I just picked it up. I am a musician, and I think that helped me pic out the nuances easier, but I don't think Spanish is that difficult. Especially if you Speak English, and German. They are not really alike, but they are both difficult languages... not the most difficult, but tricky. English being a mutt language with all of it's nonsensical rules, can be tough for people. I speak a little Russian also, but would never really claim to speak Russian.
It is very easy to buy land in Mexico. You cannot independently own land within fifty miles of a border or coast,(you can with an easy -stays in the family- eternal lease), but every thing else is completely legal and easy to attain. You do want to be careful that there are no issues with indigenous rights in the area however. These are few and far between, but they do exist. My situation was a little different, because I had to be accepted by the area where I bought my land. It is kind of a collective or... unincorporated village. But I had been traveling there for years and they were happy to have me. I probably know more about the country of Mexico, than most Mexicans, and I have certainly seen more of it. Because of the dollar of course, but I also did it on the mega cheap. I have lived out of a tent, for at least a complete year if you added up all my travels. In fact... there are some really amazing spots on the Yucatan, where you can throw up any size tent with as many people as you can fit w/electricity and bathrooms, showers for five bucks a night. Even in the city of Playa del Carmen you can get decent rooms, literally steps away from the beach, in the middle of all the glamor and pomp, for fifteen dollars a night. I suggest you go for it. "Why do people laugh at creationists?" Loved it! I'll check out the petition.
Surviving in NYC for twelve years is even more impressive than having survived being struck four times by motor vehicles, probably in NYC(like the hit-&-run by a drunk?); having been kidnapped in Kashmir(how romantic!); dysentery(poo!); acute pneumonia(ugh!); and New Orleans! (not to mention ground zero?no smiley faces there).
I don't think I am as acquainted with the world as you, but I did live in Europe for twelve years and have been to Italy, Lebanon, Cyprus; Gibraltar, and all over Morocco; Turkey and Bulgaria; Scandinavia and just EVERYWHERE in Northern Europe, where I lived. (Does that count? :)
I am super interested in how you came to have a home in Mexico. I take it you are fluent in Spanish (my only second language is German). I will be retiring soon, and the idea of having a house in Mexico is quite exciting to me. At the risk of being too nosey, how much would it cost me(with no Spanish?though I'm not afraid to learn) to do what you have accomplished?
As far as owning your apartment outright, don't fret; at 36, you're just a baby!
Just got around to reading the quotes.
"Twenty years ago I got rid of the TV and...."
Very much awesome. I have reached many of the same conclusions myself. I have never seen the point of having a car when I could always muster transportation, walk or ride my bike. Still paying off bills but thats cause Ive always had crappy jobs :P
For most rural Canadians, living without electricity probably wouldnt stop them dead at all. My parents live on 160 acres of mostly bushland, the soil isnt the best but we can grow enough food and we have meat, a well that doesnt freeze and burn wood for heat. I know thats where Ill be going should everything go to hell in a handbasket.
Hell... Ive gone camping at 20 - 30 below (with the right equipment of course):P
Just thought I would point out something about Ion Thrusters that most people don't include in their mention. Part of the reason they work, is that they eject highly charged particles in order to provide propulsion. The closer to gravity they are, the more mass needs to be ejected in order to provide any propulsion, but due to gravity via inertia, but also due to atmospheric interference. The major issue with using them, like in the theories common aircraft and ground transportation, is that it is mildly radioactive, and interferes greatly with electromagnetic transmissions, and in high exposure can be dangerous in the form of Beta class radiation. It would not be a desirable form of propulsion to have on most vehicles, but would be much better suited to more exotic aircraft and spacecraft. Even if an electromagnetic bottle effect is included, the risks are higher and real to anyone near the exhaust.
It is very possible that there is life out there other then us, odds are in their favor. There are a few discovery's that could make space exploration feasible if they pan out for us. The main thing that would make it possible is if we master fusion energy. The Ivy Mike hydrogen bomb, detonated in 1952, is a proof to the ability to achieve fusion energy gain. The HiPER Project is currently being worked on in the EU to prove the feasibility of free energy from a fusion reactor. It will still take a lot of work and research to get it to the point that a reactor can power itself and create energy past the input amount but the possibility is still there. If we did it right we could even go on to use the waste product in a fission reactor, which we are already far on, to create huge energy gains. Will we see it in our lifetimes, probably not unless we work together as a world of brothers and sisters. In the end though I think destiny will favor us. =/
Oh and if we do figure out all of the above, I imagine a future where Ion Thrusters will be on everything thing. ;)
We have spent billions on space exploration and moon landings, with all of that money and interest in have not been back to the moon for 30 years...there is no point (at least not cost-benefit pov. The cost alone is restrictive esp in current economic situation. I loved Star Trek as a kid, but clearly the idea of going to even Mars is and will remain science fiction... seriously if we could create artifial living environments, we would be using them here for the 10 Billion people that will infect the planet by 2100. I think it far more more likely to create synthetic materials than mine mars and ship the materials back to the earth! Besides I think there are Aliens out there! :))
Yea disease would be a example of life restoring the balance. Colonizing other planets is science fiction for now but to say it will remain so I can't agree. Eventually it will be worth more to harvest materials on other planets then not to. Its along the same logic as Pyrrhus argument that there is a max population. As energy becomes cheaper then materials it will eventually be very profitable to waste a little energy to obtain rare materials to bring back.
@ ImPoster... Colonizing planets and other solar system is the most fictional part of science fiction... too costly and if we cannot manage the most magical beautiful planet in the near universe...going anywhere to "solve" or breeding and resource problem seem delusional and distracting. I think fight for resources and land would long before then reduce population... there are some superbugs out there and with growing population densities an outbreak like the black plauge is not unimaginable.
For the sake of getting you off the topic though. "What do we do when that MAX has been reached?". We colonize other planets and solar systems.
@Pyrrhus Comment 102
Ok assuming that we don't build multi-story buildings, into the ground, under the ocean, or include orbiting space stations. It remains incalculable though and irrelevant still. We will never achieve a state of maximum population so its a waste of time to discuss it.
"Why not stop growth now?" This is a better question then the rest of it so I addressed it separate. First off you don't want to STOP growth as that would be unintelligent. A population must replace itself every generation. This is 'called' zero growth but this isn't including the unforeseen tragedies. So a ideal growth rate would be 2.11 children per family. Like any other statement on the topic the rest is filled with opinions. Where the problem arises is when they forget to factor in something like i dunno... increased life expectancy. Example... in the 1800's the mean age of longevity was 25, 1900's it was 50, now its 75. In the 1800's we only had 1 billion and 1975 4 billion. That alone contributed a lot to a growth in population.
Some things that are already helping the 'problem' are... safe sex education, free condoms at health clinics, planned parenting, birth control, and 1 or 2 child policy's(think octa-mom). There's alot I can think of that doesn't help though... Selling sex to children, huge incentives to have children over not(child support, tax credits), most of the helpful things are not free like sex is, In Vetro Fertilization, Artificial Insemination, starting to clone, abortions being illegal, no financial incentive to not have children, and none of the good things available in the 3rd world as readily where populations are growing the fastest. To me its a waste of time to spend energy on this topic really. As life has a nasty habit of restoring balance itself its things are out of wack.
Wow... you are hardcore!!! :)) I couldn't watch all of those back to back... glad you found them valuable, thanks for the comments made here. The cynical view, which I have to fight, is that our (the world's and human) situation is a runaway train and cannot be stopped with the religious, capitalist, and political environment...but I suppose I just want to be aware even if I cannot do a fu*king thing about it. I feel fortunate to have grown up when these issues were decades away and were at least able to fool ourselves into believing we could leave a better country and planet for our kids... That train has left the station :)) Well make the best of today and Best Wishes...
Thanks for the suggestions!
Your claim that "Its not non-sense" is a red-herring. I explicitly stated that my view of your 20 billion+ assessment being nonsense was "a different topic, altogether." The topic is NOT the veracity of your assessment of 20 billion+ but, rather, what we do when the max has been reached.
"You assume there is a maximum capacity cause you are told so."
That is a logical fallacy. The burden of proof lies with YOU to back up YOUR claim that the reason I assume there is a maximum is because I have been told so. You provide NO evidence WHATSOEVER that my statement is based on something I have been told. That is a groundless assumption on your part. Though the burden of proof does NOT lie with me, and though the burden of proof DOES lie with YOU, I will, nonetheless, PROVE TO YOU that I am right!
My claim that there is a maximum capacity is based not upon hearsay but, rather, upon the mathematical certainty that Surface Area of a Sphere = 4 pi r^2 and that the radius of the earth (and all other planets in the solar system) is FIXED. This can be observed directly from the International Space Station. The idea that the radius of the Earth changes appreciably over time is as ludicrous as asserting that the Earth is flat! The radius of the planet Earth has been known to within a margin of error of less than 10% ever since it was first calculated by Ptolemy in ca. 130 AD. Ever more accurate determinations have been calculated over a span of 1,880 years. The radius of planet Earth is now known to be aprox. 6,378 kilometers (or 3,963 miles).
The surface area of the planet Earth = 4 pi r^2, where pi = 3.14159265 (aprox.) and r = aprox. 6,378 kilometers (or 3,963 miles), yielding an approximation of the surface area of the Earth = 317,646,172 sq. kilometers (or, 197,376,181 sq. miles). Regardless as to technological improvements, the surface area of the planet Earth is FIXED and thus the number of people this planet can support is NOT infinite! Since the number of people this planet can support is not infinite, the number of people this planet can support must be FINITE. Finite means that there MUST be a MAX. The question, therefore, remains: what does one do when that MAX has been reached?
Well, I am still waiting or your answer!
Just because YOU have been told that Earth MIGHT be able to sustain as many as 18 billion people does not change the FACT that there is a MAX, even if we do not yet know with certainty what that MAX may be. THERE IS A MAX! What do we do when that MAX has been reached?!!!
Its not non-sense and even in the doc "How Many People Can Live On Planet Earth" they admit that at minimum living standard it could support 18 billion. This of course is before factoring in technological advances and human ingenuity. The question is irrelevant to fixing the world as its just a number and not a solution. You assume there is a maximum capacity cause you are told so. I didn't realize that the 3 requirements for life had a limit that could be numbered. Food, water, and exercise are all abundant and can be increased even beyond their current productions due to advancements. Food can be grown out of soil in only water now due to Hydroponics removing the food barricade that was present(soil erosion). Water can be purified in all forms even seawater and drank, in the space station they only had the original supply. Exercise doesn't need anything since you can run in place. If there's something else that is a need please inform me of it. I would prefer if questions were direct questions from here on though. Example how do we increase our food output.
"The earth could support 20 billion people and still not be at capacity."
Okay, 'The ImPoster', here's a problem I would pose for us to fix:
If 20 billion is still not earth's maximum capacity, then what is? And once that 'what is' has been reached, then what? The problem is not solved, or even addressed, by a reassessment of the earth's maximum capacity. The problem is that there IS a maximum capacity and that at some point that maximum capacity WILL be reached!
Now, fix that!
And if you really CAN fix that, then why wait till MAX? Why not stop growth now?
The question is not how many people the world can support before MAX is reached; the question is how do we avoid stretching Earth's capacity to the breaking point?
(And, btw, on a different topic, altogether: I think talk of 20 billion+ is nonsense.)
There's no problem that we can't fix. The earth could support 20 billion people and still not be at capacity. Oil is not required to continue this population and I can explain and answer any problem through connections. Feel free to pose one too me and I will. I'm creating blogs all over the net and I can easily answer questions as they come and add it there. I'll add proof if you request it otherwise you will have to see my blog or research it yourself.
"I know there are many Zeitgeist fans out there. You should know that today, one of the friends of the accused killer in Arizona, and Abc news, are now saying that the film is what drove this obviously messed up and over looked kid, to commit these crimes. Unbelievable." This is unbelievable because its fallacy, its confusing cause and effect. The real cause is the fact he was aloud to fall to the level he did and being a brainwashed consumer. The effect he flipped the f*** out and killed people. I feel no remorse for that situation, its being hyped up for sensationalism. I also don't fear death because non-existence is better then being a slave. This isn't to say I agree with his actions thought they were rash and without a point.
@Anyone Who Listens
Also you all we're talking about a mass culling of people where billions will die, so how could the Arizona shooting be worse because they are more innocent then the 3 to 4 billion. Also this shouldn't be strange that there are no real solutions surfacing today. The people at the top who own everyone don't want that. The more people the more loose eggs that can change the world because they see the truth. Am I religious NO. Am I spiritual yes... We are all connected and being disconnected from humanity is what is keeping us divided over trivial choices we make in our life. This is also what makes something like the Arizona shooting 'worse' then 1.2 million Iraq citizens being killed. Since at most 100k were actually Taliban. This same standard could also be applied to America during marshal law. Ooops we killed 50 citizens taking out a possible terrorist, oh well collateral damage. The news is fake and intentionally shifted to meet the agenda don't bother reading the mainstream. If you want proof of this give me any article and I can explain exactly how they are shifting it. Orwell is rolling in his grave because they have already mastered doublespeak.
I know there are many Zeitgeist fans out there. You should know that today, one of the friends of the accused killer in Arizona, and Abc news, are now saying that the film is what drove this obviously messed up and over looked kid, to commit these crimes. Unbelievable.
kind of inline exactly...ugg, I need some sleep.
@Pyrrhus, Excellent point. Amen to public transport, and bicycles. Your comment is kind of inline exactly with one of my points to Mr.Majestic...human insecurity is a major social problem. So much crap is purchased in a delusional quest to find security through material objects. And kudos for managing your finances so well. I do have to one up you though. I have traveled the world over a couple of times (mostly nice and slow on a train) and have lived in NYC for twelve years; yet I still to this day, have never owned a credit card. Or... wait, never been owned by a credit card. I'm 36, still time, I know, but so far so good. I do not however, own my apartment. So, I'm impressed. Cars suck.
Twenty years ago I got rid of the TV and, because I live in an urban center, discovered I needed a car for nothing except trips to the doctor, for which I now take a taxi. After dispensing with the car, I was saving SO much money, EVERY MONTH, that I felt like a millionaire! One of the best kept secrets in America is that public transportation really does work and that you get to your destination FASTER than you do struggling through bumper-to-bumper traffic and that once you reach your destination your nerves aren't shot to hell. I have credit cards for convenience sake ONLY: the balance is NEVER above ZERO! Have no debts whatsoever. I paid off my condo with the money I saved. I am not trying to brag. I just want people to know that by getting rid of just one BIG thing, one's power to make choices INCREASES and that one need not give up anything important. I build my own computers and fix computers for others who live in the building. We all have EVERYTHING we need, but nothing more. One definition of beauty is economy of form. G.H. Hardy once said of a colleague's proof that it just HAD to be right because of its inherent simplicity. "Beauty is the first test: there is no permanent place in the world for ugly mathematics."
If only people could be persuaded to perceive beauty as synonymous with simplicity, half the battle would be won. It is critically important for people to be able to differentiate between true beauty and cheap decoration.
Thank you, MrMajestik, for recommending the doc. I will pass it on.
And now for ‘How Many People Can Live on Planet Earth’!
@Pyrrhus, Where did you find that Mussolini quote??? That's amazing; I am surprised I've never read before, yet again, I have a lot to learn. Thank you for your comment. It made me feel civilized, lol. I started commenting on this site, because I felt there were so many intelligent and informed people on here. And incidentally I wouldn't have gotten involved with that discussion if I didn't see that they had some common ground in there somewhere. Thanks again.
@Atrophy I think you pretty much summed it up perfectly. This is exactly how I see the scenario playing out. This is also why I commented on the film to begin with. The film has people bum rushing the border to get into the U.S. from Mexico. Lol. I personally do not want to be in the most oil dependent country in the world when it runs out of oil, and I don't think I am the only one. Another poster suggested that many Americans would go to Canada, and I really didn't understand that reasoning either. I believe cold weather+no fuel= mass death. I know If this scenario plays out in my lifetime, you will not find me above the Tropic of Cancer. This could all play out under much milder conditions of course, but its coming, to some degree or another. We will run out of oil, it's just a matter of time. Thanks.
No need for the story ?... the story was the documentary !
Without it its just a bunch of people talking. With the story it becomes engaging to laymen and children.
no need for that stupid gay little story in the documentary.really pissed me off
Here's my take on population control in an oil depleted world.
1) transportation and fuel driven machinery fails utterly, making food delivery and water distribution via gas powered pumping stations impossible. Homes without electric or non oil/gas heat sources will be about as useful as a tent during winter in cold weather regions. Many people will starve, dehydrate or freeze to death, unprepared or unable to gather the resources they require.
2) Infrastructure breakdown, lack of transportation will limit maintenance of far reaching ground based transportation, communication and power distribution networks. Ham radios will make a comeback and satellite based systems will remain unaffected as long as the base stations have power. Without communication, morale crumbles. In some cases, suicides may result as people loose hope of salvation. Panic and hysteria set in and you may have a rash of looting and gang violence as people get the 'every man for himself' or 'mass exodus' mindsets. Loss of electricity is the final nail in the coffin for all but the hardiest of residents in cold regions.
anything to add ?
The comment just above, was an answer to you last comment. Cut'n'paste can be a b#t@h.
I've just added 'Advertising and the End of the World' to my to-watch list, and now I am going to sit back and watch 'Affluenza'.
Regarding one of your responses to TheImposter, I think it so important for everyone here to follow your example: seeking points of agreement. Disagreements need to be discussed. However, without first establishing some level of mutual trust, civil discourse is impossible. Civilized debate should have nothing to do with winning. Controversy should be a striving to broaden awareness, to come away having learned something. And thanks for your response to my brief comment.
Thanks for the response.
I am definitely going to see 'Affluenza' and 'How Many People Can Live on Planet Earth', today!
I have already seen 'The Corporation' many times over. I am always recommending it to anybody who will listen. It's old, yet it seems to get more and more up-to-date with every passing day.
As to "unrestrained capitalism," I think capitalism is dead:
"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."
~ Benito Mussolini
@Mr. Majestic, Well, I think that's the reason I spoke out to begin with. From my point of view, calling someone a Christian who isn't, is an incredible insult. And while we may find alternate fuels for transport, sooner than later, what are we going to make all of those most important plastic toys out of? I truly was astounded when I began looking into how much oil goes into every day products, especially tires. I agree with your population proposals, but I do not see that happening... I wish it could. Incidentally, I also agree with you about religions role in all of this mess. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy and it is absolute madness.
:)) @ Jeigh
Maybe paranoid wasn't appropriate... perhaps anxiety? I have a 6 year old son who make this sh!t much more serious for me...Before then I could simply throw my hands up and just sit back and watch the events and poor choices with little anger or anxiety.
Anyhow, oil will be replaced by natural gas or nuclear energy but I am on the same page with population...that fuels the exponental consumption of these resources. If people would simply make the choice to limit their family size to 2 and delay parenthood until late 20s or 30s we could begin flating out the j-curve in population. You make a great point because the "god-given" right to reproduce is the major problem... 100 years ago not a problem but now it is THE PROBLEM! As an Atheist, I have know concerns about god finding favor with my or the life I have led... but I still think that religion bu11sh!t is the key to resolving these problems...which again was part of my "snarky" comment to treelo... The religious tend to ignore the obvious in lew of theology!
@Mr. Majestic, Yes, I believe the coming tide is inevitable. I don't, however, think it is the end of the world, and I am not exactly paranoid. I believe its all necessary. Also, when we do run out of oil, which is going to spark this chain of events, we are going to see a very sharp decline in world population. I do not see any other way towards population control in "free" nations. If someone does, please let me know. Population control is simply against all constitutional rights guaranteed to Americans, and there is no way around it. Once it is brought up, millions will call it an infringement on their personal, and especially religious freedoms. I live in a Hasidic neighborhood. The more children you bear in Jewish Hasidism, the more favorably you are looked at in the eyes of the community and God. So...
@ Pyrrhus, Thanks for pointing that out, as I mentioned above, I believe that the cause for the population explosion(oil) will also be the solution (lack of oil) in quelling it.
can pre emptive disaster capitalism be far,nice stewardship always reacting to the wheel of "Metropolis",all 5 seasons of harvest,,,thares only 4,somebody play/tell G.O.D. oh thats right,the scientist are werking on a "giant smoke signal
Just imagine then, if any one of these scenarios were to come true e few of these predictions are sure to come to pass. Lake Mead is at 1/2 capacity right now. 1 billion people now have no access to clean drinking water.
The elephant in the room is population.
Either we figure out some way to drastically, rapidly, and ethically, reduce our numbers, or someone else is going to do it for us; or, worse yet, nature will make the correction.
Frank, head-on discussions must be NON-STOP, global in scope, and they must start yesterday!
We're a smart species, but it is just plain stupid to be focusing on anything and everything, except for the elephant in the room.
@atrophy, Your 100% right about that. Our physiology and neurological development are unprecedented; the human mind and civilization are both in their infancy. Change can be as simple as teaching your children the golden rule and living it yourself. Simple, not necessarily easy.
Agreed, but it is only our social and technological evolution that is flawed. Our biological evolution as thinking, tool using species will always put us on top, even without our modern technology, and allow us to survive as a species.
Even those bottom of the barrel fellows we call rednecks, guarding their dirt farms, display amazing ingenuity and creativity at times. Maybe not ivy league folks but certainly survivors.
@ MrMajestic, Thank you for you kind words, and thank you for asking my opinion. Ironically, I felt very calm on post 69! Lol. I do want to reiterate that I think your position is very valid and necessary. You have an immense about of energy and love for the subject and the world around you. We all see the world as our own film, don't we. I have lived a somewhat chaotic life. I wouldn't change it for the world, but it does make my "film" a little different than most. I can look back to all of the adversary I have faced and overcome, and I find serenity that it wasn't all for naught. About the film and comments; I despise the Christian position more than just about anything out there. The "Jesus Scapegoat" is one of the most pitiful creations in all of history. This position hits very close to home for me, as my mother became "born again" about ten years ago. Her husband is the CEO of a junk food corporation, and the two of them live in a Mcmansion on the coast of Florida. It truly saddens me more than I could ever properly explain. It is so pathetic, to look at the world falling apart around us, and to say it doesn't matter, because Jesus is gonna take it all away. I agree with your position on so many different points, just not that the film is a must see. I would have loved to have watched it all, but I like you, could not get past the first twenty minutes.
About the next 100 years... I see a collapse. I see countless more wars, and I see incredible pain and death. But I also see a new paradigm at the end of the tunnel. I am not against having and raising children in this world that is going off a cliff. Beyond what I do with my life, that is what will go into the future of me. My influence and guidance, will live on in my children. I feel the world will need as much heart as it can get. As I have mentioned before, I live almost opposite lives. One in the big city, and one in the obscurity and silence of the desert. I have always appreciated my life in the desert much more. I only live in the city to contribute to society, because I feel like that is my duty.
I believe the new paradigm is already taking shape. The internet is purely fascinating, and every year I get closer and closer to being able to take that connected world with me to my beloved desert without taking all the other BS along with it. Net neutrality is probably my biggest cause. Once again, new science proves that we are truly all one.
So after the fall of all the giant's (corporations and governments) I do see a phoenix rising from the ashes. I believe that a new society will see this complete collapse and finally learn from it.
I agree, the future is not going to look kindly on us, and I hope not, because they shouldn't. Hopefully the future generations will finally see how unnecessary so much of our society has been and change it. The human race however, will unfortunately have to go through all of this, to make that evolutionary jump.
For me, though they may come out in many different forms; the biggest problems with human beings are, fear, insecurity, and ignorance. I believe greed, war, gluttony, etc...are all symptoms of these three diseases.
I too feel crazy quite often; I look at the world around me and I do not fit in. But If I change my world, others will follow. My fight to get my solar panels and my mini windmill on top of my building was one of the most aggravating and annoying processes of my life; I wanted to throw in the towel too many times to count. I also had serious medical issues to deal with and my world was wallpapered in bureaucracy. But in the end, It payed off. There are now two other apartments in my building that followed my lead, and I only pay $40 a month for electricity. Keep in mind, electricity is much more expensive here than the rest of the country, as is everything else. So I guess that's how I see it. I wish It would be different, and I hope I'm wrong. I just think that there are some fundamentally diseased characteristics in a very large portion of society, and like any other diseased organism, it will get very sick, before it gets better...but it will get better.
fatalism,all planned final stages Iron Mountain Treat/iez,,,1963,abc is state sponsored media,free hint 1 aka clue one krakatoea or tambora event and its back to the drawing board or in thare case,square one for this paradiagmns motivational speaker
Well you have invested a few minutes giving me a lecture about thinks the I didn't say much less insinuate!
I don’t know a easier way so I will try to just address some things in 58
I think I am quite on my way to losing it! :? But when you are the sane one in an insane world it is sometime hard to hold it together! No I had never seen treelo before, but I think I was scoffing at his posts because he and apparently you seem to be focusing much more on the “propagandize” way it was presented. Sure maybe it was, I turned it off after 20 mins in or so… I have seen things like this in not so dramatized versions and the fact is this may be a worse case scenario there is certainly ways that we could end up in the middle of best case and worse case …either way the prognosis of the sustainability of the planet and its resources are being used up much faster in 2010, than in 1910, or 1810… in addition you factor in the populations differences and projections and it doesn’t take a cynic to see that at some point bad sh!t is gonna really happen.
I certainly don’t think that human or even civilization will disappear but it will not be what it is today, I think people will have to revert back to much more earth friendly ways of living… They will hate us for the wasteful practices we do everyday! And a video like this and other will show them that we knew, we knew what we were doing was destructive and possibly irreversible but we chose to do it anyhow. We will not be admired for a great civilization as were the Greek, Romans, or England! We will be guilty of willful ignorance! Nevertheless, the human race will continue…and I never even suggested that extinction was what I was worried about? This is where I just don’t understand. Anyhow, I though this was a doc that everyone should see and talk about.
Ya that whole rant in 69…???? Thanks for the lecture, and very well written. Jeigh I can tell that you are intelligent, thoughtful, well spoken, and good writer… But with all that you really make a mountain out of a molehill…. Your writing pace and tone seems much more “panicked” than I feel I have ever been. I do talk to people about concerns and many of them are too, some know but just decide to “not talk about it” or they just don’t know enough to even have the conversation…
The fact is that corporations with the sole responsibility of making profit mixed with the willful ignorance of consumers will eventually have devastating consequences on the planet… ok maybe in 200 we will be there but you cannot present any rational evidence or hypothesis that could convince me that was not the case… If you can I would love to see it, I could use a little good news today! :D
Is it a masterpiece of documentary art….NO!
Are the facts 95% true?... YES!
Are these issues important for others to see and talk about? YES!
I think my original post back on 54 was in response to these phrases in 53, “Utter nonsense!” Shameless fear mongering” and snarky “pre-apocalyptic pseudo-anime claptrap” around which a bunch of dismissive comments about the validity of the piece. In addition, there are many Christians that hide behind the belief that Jesus is gonna come back and fix it all…that does have an impact on our response and peoples actions and attitude…doesn’t make the reality any less real! And I think 55 I kinda clarified that I thought some of it was over the top Hollywoody!
Anyhow, I have to go! I think someone asked on another post? So how do you see the environmental and resource problems working out over the next 100 years???
This is serious if we don't start cleaning up the planet we are all on a road to hell and NOT back!
@MrMajestic If the clock has run out, this is a natural part of evolution. That the entire human race will be wiped out is very doubtful. And if it does, rest assured that another species will come along to take its place. However, the species has already proved incredibly resilient; though at it's current state of development it is riddled with many faults, and may not survive further without an evolutionary jump. Evolution proves that only the strong (or isolated)survive and through cataclysmic chaos and change the strong will emerge. I don't mean purely physical strength, but all strengths; courage, intelligence, reason, level mindedness etc. Take a look at the world from a molecular viewpoint. All the atoms that exist in the universe have always existed. You are a collection of atoms that have existed and have been many things, many times, since the beginning of time. Those atoms will survive. If you doubt this, look at the very recent scientific development of Arsenic life. Every organism previously known, uses ATP and Phosphorylated DNA... until a few months ago, when it was discovered life could emerge without phosphorus and out of the very toxic Arsenic. You see, life is going to happen no matter what man does. In fact, thinking that man can destroy all life is rather egotistical. I do not think your position is unnecessary, quite the contrary, however; don't you think your rant would be better served preaching to the masses at a Wal-mart super-center, or middle American truck stop? That's were fervor of this nature may actually do some good. Start with educating the ignorant... in fact, what are you doing wasting time here on TDF, preaching to the choir?
@Treelo, Well my reasoning may be biased; I have a home in Mexico, and live there several months out of the year already. In the desolate yet fruitful central high desert, not a posh beach resort. If I compare the two cultures based on observations of their populations; I would much rather be in Mexico despite it's propensity for natural disaster, purely because the people are already rooted more deeply to the earth than Americans. Comparatively, considering the size and population of Mexico, It easily trumps the U.S. in natural tangible resources. That of course has been changing rapidly, like every thing else. But this was not my assessment, this is what the film purposed. The film proposes that the southern U.S. border will be bum-rushed by the population of Mexico... and that is utter nonsense. In my opinion, it will be the contrary. And there is the fact that Mexicans are historically not afraid of a little revolution. As for my survival. I have already survived ground zero, being kidnapped in Kashmir, dysentery, acute pneumonia, New Orleans, and being struck four times by motor vehicles as a pedestrian along with a slew of other un-notable yet worthy scrapes . I'm not incredibly worried about surviving. Fear is the mind killer... I would however take any country in South or North America before the U.K.
@Atrophy, Thanks for very the informative info, and the link. I do use solar and wind power at both my apartment in NYC and my place in Mexico. I had to fight red tape for years to engineer my NYC set-up. And of course, it is incredibly difficult to build anything in a studio apartment, and expensive to lease a garage. For the most part I avoid cars, but I know that eventually I will need to find something. For now, my bicycle serves me well.
I'm not so sure about your assessment of the American reaction, or that of those south of the border. America as a nation is typically quite insular, at the first sign of trouble they slam shut the gates and start looking for people to direct their anger towards, in this case it would most likely be the government. Certainly there would be a large number heading for the Canadian border but I expect many would simply attempt to rough it out on their own until the point of no return before moving on.
As for Mexico, they have little choice in the matter. Heading south is equally viable, yet South American governments are already plagued with serious problems of their own. However desperate the situation, North America is always the better alternative.
Despite multiple natural disasters, several plagues, accelerated global warming, and a cross-country drive through bandit country, "Lucy" survived into her 70s-80s (beginning her cross-country hike at the age of 75.) I'm sure you'll do just fine.
These things may not actually happen and I hope they don't but if drastic things don't start happening soon then things will go for the worst. We live under the assumption that we can go off oil forever at an affordable price. Many species have gone extinct this century or are severely endangered because of actions of humans. I just turned 21 snd hope to live 70 more years in a desirable world but i am not convinced it will happen. The world is in trouble......
@Treelo, Agree was not the correct word. I felt that out of all of the comments, yours was one of the last that Mr Majestic should be trolling. I posted a comment earlier, but for some reason it is being reviewed. Your argument was that the material was presented terribly on a subject that should be treated more seriously. I agree completely. As soon as the programs suggests that hordes of immigrants would bum rush the American borders, I lost all respect for the program, hypothetically suggested or not. I think a more accurate depiction would present silver spooned Americans in a quick panic to flee the country that has mostly exhausted it's natural resources and relies almost solely on the airplane and the automobile to move both people and product. Besides all of that, I am new here and have never seen such a logical assessment of a film trolled so hard on this forum. It creeped me out.
I'll keep it short since your desperate attempts to troll are growing rather dull.
"What you fail to validate is the fact that intervention and actual changes needed will and are probably too late."
Until you can provide me with a single reason why I should bother validating your own argument, this conversation is over. If you could even call it that in the first place.
Oh... Republican? I'm English; you're wrong on so many different levels they installed an elevator.
I don't really agree with them. We've both suggested that there are problems that need resolving, that's about as far as the similarities go. I haven't written off humanity as a lost cause. Not yet anyway.
pure comedy way to go ABC, whats with the cheeseballz cartoon, worth some laughs i guess. good job America, now go stock up at walmart and sleep with one eye open
@Mr. Majestic… Have you lost your freaking mind??? Do you have some history with treelo that you need to deal with somewhere else and not on this forum.
I’m all for conservation. I don’t own a car, I run half my NYC apt of solar, and I only buy local products… but I don’t jump on someone who criticizes a FILM! He didn’t say a word about the state of the world, only how this film bites.. and it does. It was a horrible presentation… and you jump down his throat and call him a Jesus freak? Sounds like you need to go smoke something. Your ridiculous position does nothing but hurt your (our) position. At least attack someone who deserves it! What is wrong with these forums lately. Where are the intelligent, reasonable people. Your position here is a complete fallacy. You have no idea how to really create change in this world. Start respecting people the way you respect the planet… they are one in the same…
I'm sorry friend, you just don't get it. Now Treelo must be a republican? You are happy, and have a great life? Your basically harassing this guy now. You sound so worked up over his comment about the quality of the film. He didn't like it. So what. I didn't like it either. Many people that are concerned about the current state of the world didn't like it either. Do you do this to everyone that disagrees with you? Do you slash tires on Hummers and rip dishwashers and washing machines out of strangers houses? I really hope you and you happy family live a completely self-sustainable life. No fuel, no electricity, no running water, and only exist of what you grow. Your comments just become more creepier by the minute. You really need to relax and live and let live. I mean Treelo is basically agreeing with your position, and you are accusing him of complete non-sense. Oh, and that house you and yours live in better be made of solid glass. Judge people much dude?
@ trello If you want to become condescending I can play that game too... What you fail to validate is the fact that intervention and actual changes needed will and are probably too late. The mock meeting of the world leaders and community is very accurate, even with all the indisputable evidence in the world...people will choice "convenience" "profit" and "denial" rather than making a collective decision to actually do something to help the situation, and if it mean sacrifice LMFAO .... FORGET IT! Will never happen... I am not cowering in the corner, I have a great life, I am happy, and I have a great kid and I am expecting that he will life his short human life to the fullest!!!
You should come chat with me in real time on yahoo messenger
"tired_of_ignorance000 at yahoo com"
I will accept you as friend and then we can clarify some things and perhaps misunderstand of the other ... so basically you agree with what was being postulated but not the way in which it was done??? 3rd para down! I guess I would expect you to focus and blast the message rather than the messenger (or form in which it was done) ... You must be a republican! I think taken as a whole the point was quite clear, greed, profits, laziness will keep us from doing anything substantially meaningful in this eventual peril.
Unfortunately you seem to be unwittingly (or deliberately, it matters not) misinterpreting my comment. Quite frankly I'm amazed at the rather outlandish conclusions you seem to be drawing from my obvious dismissal of the documentary itself, rather than the message of doom and gloom it repeatedly tries to ram down the viewers throat.
Perhaps you were too busy cowering in abject terror at the prospect of humanity's inevitable demise to notice that the hypothetical scenario provided contained multiple attempts to rectify the damage done to our planet, all of which failed miserably and still ended with the destruction of humanity as a whole. That sir, is called fearmongering.
Despite your repeated assertions that I am in denial, or merely some religious nut waiting for salvation to materialise from the skies, I am well aware of the problems facing the world. I merely disagree with the manner in which the message was given, and the desperate conclusions drawn by whoever wrote that twaddle.
Can I imagine an equally depressing scenario? Certainly, anyone with an ounce of intelligence could do the same. Perhaps the eventual collapse of international politics and a slippery slope back to imperialism as larger nations battle it out for resource rich territories, dramatically increasing the drain upon existing stockpiles in a futile attempt to salvage what they can before it is too late. Virtually every century since the rise of man has been marred by inreasing violence and bloodshed, why should this one be any different? Good enough for you?
In the end we are only limited by our own imagination and ability to adapt. I must confess, your nonsensical drivel was quite difficult to follow but it seems to me that you have given up all hope. If that is the case, perhaps you should be the one turning to Jesus. While I am certain that humanity will meet an unpleasant end, I am doubtful that things are as terrifying as the show suggests. It would appear to me simply a highly concentrated dose of panic-inducing gobbledegook to justify the outrageous increase in living costs we are currently experiencing. Expect more of the same. Lots more.
I remain uncharacteristically hopeful that some clever sod will come up with an expensive solution "out of the blue" to save us from ourselves before long. We're long overdue a major scientific breakthrough.
To all scoffers:
I agree the intro is seems a bit "tele-shocker" ... I was laughing too, but that does not dismiss the observations and facts of how our environment and ecosystems are damaged or destroyed.
But is 370,000 new births today and tomorrow and those numbers increase over time, the elderly are living longer, there are many that predict living up to 100 as not as unusual as it once was, millions living longer continuing to use resource and require food... This is not something that seem hard to expand in your mind unless your are simply incapable of abstract thought or simple exponential math. I honestly think the clock has run out and we even if we had the political will or economic incentives that we would be unable to reverse the damage we have all ready done. But still it makes sense to try to minimize our impact on our wonderful planet and our living world... I don't give a SH!T about Mars...I want a planet that I can breath fresh air and hear clean running creeks and rivers...
I just don't know how you can dismiss the facts in this doc, I am always amazed by the power of denial! As a counselor, it is just something that always stuns me, even with evidence that everyone else can see the individual will go to his grave believing a fantasy or distortion of reality. Enough said, you morons continue to believe nothing is a problem...
@ treelo I didn't see it as fear mongering in fact it just reaffirms my fears for my 6 year old son and his kids... You must believe that Jesus is coming back to save us from ourselves?
So, can you imagine a scenario that is horrific, real, based in fact, educated guesses, and somewhat preventable that does happen? Is all bad news or predictions...fear mongering??? You seem to be delusional in your assumption that people or even energy will make such a huge difference! It is ALL about limited natural resources, water, oil, minerals, and farmland!!! There is a limited supply of things, things that our modern and technological world has come to require and at some point it will not be sustainable! So you honestly believe that we can have a 3.5 Billion people living the American Dream and still have a healthy and productive planet??? Who is proposing that... Jesus? You are simply in denial, it is understandable because we would have to accept some blame for our role in this... never pleasant!
Absolutely terrible. Shameless fearmongering backed up with little to no facts (not to mention a couple of glaring historical errors,) presented in a dull and depressing manner. Essentially it takes them an hour and a half to tell you that problems that exist today will exist tomorrow, only worse because... IT'S THE FUTURE!!! Topped off with the declaration that we can resolve this catastrophe with the use of energy saving lightbulbs? Utter nonsense.
Had they taken the time to present the information (what little there was) in a serious manner it might have had some redeeming qualities. Unfortunately they decided to go with the pre-apocolyptic pseudo-anime claptrap in a desperate effort to engage the largely indifferent youth.
"Wow you must not have graduated high school." - I'm sorry, but I laughed heartily at that one. Irony 1 - Sentence structure 0.
@ TheImposter Well, like I said, I agree with you. I've agreed with you many times before also (I've been lurking on here for about a year), just haven't spoke up before. And don't get me wrong, I blow up all the time, in fact, that is what led me to start commenting to begin with. Some i@#$% said something so stupid, I could no longer be silent. I personally did not like the doc. I thought that Tomdham had some valid points in his criticism of the film.
I really didn't look at it as from a left or right perspective, and to be honest, I don't look at much of anything that way. I have been totally F&%#ed by both sides many times, so I just ignored that part of his comment. I don't think he is anti-electric car, but he might be, I just agreed once again with his criticisms of the current state of the technology.
The thing is, I also agree with almost everything you said, and more so, in your last post. One of the biggest problems with society is its improper perspective of value/price/worth.
The problem was that you came out with a personal attack and Tomdham, was attacking the film... so I just naturally began following his commentary closer than yours.
I live in NYC for many reasons, and one of them is independence from automobiles. I also (believe or not) have been struck by a drunk driver, a hit and run driver, and a uninsured driver... all within the course of two years...and all while walking. I am not a big fan anymore. But people out there seem to think they need them, and some of those people vote, and shape the national agenda, so I try to listen to their arguments and understand them as best as possible. I would never categorize myself left or right, but if I had to leave it up to someone else, I would certainly be ushered to the left. So, I guess what I'm saying and reinforcing to myself is... if we blow up, we look like i@#$%^, or even worse...tea baggers. It's hard to keep your cool, but the reward is that people listen...maybe not the loon's but the intelligent ones do, and I believe without a doubt that intelligence is what has dragged this species along despite all the i@#$%^ in the way.
I agree I can be a d*** but I hate blatant disinformation no matter how sarcastic. Electric motors would be much farther then they are today if Tesla wouldn't have been repressed. The electricity statement was for people who didn't understand how it is generated. It was intentionally short and to the point because there are a lot of people that think that oil is the only means of generating it. I agree that price is the major problem but that leads down the infinite rabbit hole of what is money and what is value. To me the only money is resources and the only value is the human ingenuity which is why we are stifled in the US atm. The medium and lower classes are repressed from full intelligence because of interest in continuation of government. This just leads to slower development of technology and ultimately advancement. I'll try and work on the anger thing but its only human nature and probably the one that put us in this situation by the top 1% (self-interest). A couple solutions that are important to the future are real education for everyone and a restoring of the focus of government to the people instead of big biz. Those 2 things are going to take a long time though from the looks of it. Especially With media being almost fully controlled again. Obama is making his move on the internet now.
@Mad's first comment,
You and me both brother! ;D
Here's to realizing the good society, until then I will continue to be proud to be maladjusted to this current societal paradigm!
As for the documentary, it has some interesting takes on a possible future but I have to quote from the Terminator movies, a quote that I think is very apt for this topic and that is,
"The future's not set, there is no fate but what we make!"
@Rabin, That's exactly what turned me off instantly. The film may very well have some great points, but once they babbled that nonsense I had to turn it off.
@theImposter, you make some great points, but honestly, you were such a d*^k about it, I really didn't care. + I think we all understand how electricity is created. We don't need a dumbed down explanation from you. That accomplishes nothing except insulting the whole lot of us. And you are leaving out one very important stat on your well researched list. PRICES$$$$$$ and don't throw stats at me, Ive been waiting for years for the price of a simple electric motorcycle to come into a reasonable range.
@Tomdham, very entertaining and great usage of bubonics. I agree with you and though I am NOT a pessimist, wishful thinking can lead people strait into the same wall as any gas guzzler out there. If we don't deal with reality we will come up with dead end solutions.
@Midnight Run, Thanks for the quote, reason, and Coutts compilation recommendation.
For everyone that may not understand how electricity is generated.
Electricity has been generated at central stations since 1881. The first power plants were run on water power or coal, and today we rely mainly on coal, nuclear, natural gas, hydroelectric, and petroleum with a small amount from solar energy, tidal harnesses, wind generators, and geothermal sources.
The Grid isn't reliant on petrol and just found out they didn't use it when they started. >.<
Wow the first car is a FULLY electric car the 2nd is the fastest gas powered car to date... I don't even need to say more your intelligence is obviously not in electricity >.<
"Electric vehicle with a small gas engine that turns a generator to extend range once the battery is depleted. Only the batteries propel the vehicle, not gas."
That recharging problem.
End of communication...out and 73's,
Bugatti, great ELECTRIC car.
Some more for you:
"Uses electricity and gas to move vehicle's wheels. Some, or all, of that electricity comes from the grid -- from "plugging in.""
There's that pesky GRID again.
Uhhh..I just woke up. My mommy sed ewe cent mi a masage.
she sed I should rply wit sum stats.
"Uses batteries to power an electric motor which propels the vehicle. In "extended range" electric vehicles, batteries are charged from the [b]grid and by a small gas engine[/b] that powers a generator which powers the batteries (the engine doesn't propel the vehicle, it recharges the batteries."
Geee, da "grid" or "small GAS engine" wunder wut dey is???
Better go back to skool and were GAS comes from and way powers the GRID!!!!.
I worked for GE as an Electrical Eng for 25 years.
CV available upon request smart ass!!
Also the Bugatti Veyron EB 16.4 a 16 cylinder car has only a top speed of 408.00 km/h (253.52 mph). Acceleration from 0 to 63 in 2.5 seconds. This is the fastest car on market today.
Wow you must not have graduated high school. Have you even looked at the new electric cars. You can only repress technology so long. The world distance record of 501 km (311 mi) for a production electric car on a single charge was set by a Tesla Roadster on October 27, 2009. It can accelerate from 0 to 60 mph (0 to 97 km/h) in 3.7 seconds. The motor limit of 14000 rpm to retain the 125 mph (201 km/h) top speed. Just go back to sleep your not needed for the future.
OH YEAH...electric cars!! @300 miles per charge??
They forgot to mention at 5mph.
I was not going to comment but there are a few points that tend to make this left wing "green" presentation somewhat ludicrous:
1) Van Jones??? That just brought this doco down 5 notches.
2) Podesta??? 5 more. (Body scanners, anyone?)
3) Obama speeches??? 5 more....
4) Gun toting, right wing, NRA members, caravan-mates of "poor" Lucy and her darling UNARMED family saving them from the marauding hooligans trying to steal the camera? LMFAO!! Kind of odd from a lefty perspective documentary.
I just had to watch the whole thing. Now my wife is angry because I lost my appetite. lol
Total nonsense !! People have already started going away from US why will anyone go there in crisis ??? !! Scientific predictions are facts but showing them only on basis of US and avoiding the rest of the world dosent match up with documentary title.
I saw this on TV. This one is pretty good. I think its alerting people to real possibilities. Not bad.
This is old...
Plant more trees.
Thank you Midnight Ride and Mr Majestic. Fibonacci's rabbits we are..
I like it I would like to see part 2 it left us hangen on how mankind was to pull thru &live happly ever after o well.
@Anthony :))I've been doing the same thing....have a deadline tuesday..the pc is rendering happily in 3ds and I'm chilling
fact of the matter is we may be using up our resources at an alarming rate and depleting natural ecosystems etc etc but do we have a hope in hell of stopping it.... nope, human nature+money+time= extinction. So deal with it. lets hope they get that laser fusion plant working then we can sit around on our lazy fat arses with unlimited energy.
The biggest problem creating a sustainable planet is creating a sustainable population. Food, energy, stability.... its all moot when the crush of people becomes so overwhelming that we go to war with our neighbors for a loaf of bread.
Long story short, billions will have to suffer and die to make this sustainable world even possible without some sci-fi invention on par with Star Treks replicators, space colonies and the success of fusion reactors.
People will not adopt a 1 or 2 child cap on families without a big fight about human rights and freedom, people will not ration because the majority think they are better, others will take advantage in some way wile yet more remain in denial and refuse outright to make changes.
Its all well and nice to design a better and beautiful future like the Venus project but we wont have the room or resources in the foreseeable future for 9, 10, 11 billion people.
I suspect that denial is too...just saying :(((
Well sh!t man, how can I even top what Midnight Ride posted? I agree and love the quote too! Even when I was a young adult 20+ years ago I wondered about population and resources at a rudimentary level and I didn't even begin to really understand all what and is going on... The only thing I know is that I know NOTHING! But I do know something, that the earth in all of its Miraculousness is limited in all of its resources, it really does not take much cognitive power to realize that at some point all things will be mined, pumped, and sucked from the ground, that food production for 10 Billion people is unfathomable to me. I hate to be cynical but I expect no more than 2 or 3 generations will see some changes toward population control or resource wars that make Iraq and Afghanistan be remembered as the good old days to my kids and grandkids. To be honest, I haven't even watched this... I have observed in my little world the slow but predictable path that changes to interrupt and delay problems is too slow for the problems that really need IMMEDIATE CHANGE...not month or years for law makers or public opinion to understand what is really going on... we could have avoided a lot of this I think, if so many were not just greedy... or been so quick to reproduce. Well I am gonna check this out ... on that note one last quote, Ignorance is bliss!
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function."
~Dr. Albert Bartlett
I always liked that quote.
Easy enough to look up (try Arithmetic, Population and Energy )and very pertinent to this documentaries message, is a scientific perspective. Find the shorter video as it's easier to watch and more documentary style vs. the classroom lecture version.
If you are further interested in this subject, which I anticipate you will be after watching that vid; look no further than David A. Coutts and his web compilation of An Exponentialist View to find critical and complimentary info from some Famous Exponentialists like Asimov, Darwin, Dawkins, Savage, Wallace, etc...
Props to Vlatko! Keep em coming.
I find it hilarious that so many of you think this is 'fear mongering propaganda'. To me, it is starry-eyed optimism to think that industrial civilization will even last until 2100.
I feel that since they admit this is a worste case senario and that it is intended for a wake up call, it gives them license to be overly dramatic. Other people have made essentially the same movie and called it a certainty, which is not so. This was well designed and really got to me, maybe if it gets to many others people will start trying to put more pressure on the areas that really make a difference, like government and big business. If these two entities dont change no amount of recycling or solar solutions by the individual will help.
The problem is we still have huge numbers of peoples in power and regular citizens that see climate change and environmental concerns as a political tool used by the left, instead of a reality that effects us all. What the guy said about how if you dont negotiate with what the universe sends your way you automatically get assigned a new negotiating partner, called reality is so true. In the end all the climate change nay sayers will see that they were the ones that were duped by big business and politics as usual, unfortunately by then it will be too late. The world will suffer so the rich oil companies and devoutly religiouse can hang on to their wealth and delusions.
I should be dieing by the time things start really getting bad, and I have no children. Thats all I have to look forward to right now, that maybe I will not see the really bad stuff, and that I will not leave a child behind to go through it.
I agree about this doc i felt it was good propaganda, anybody who's in touch with science knows this planet has been heading south since the industrial revolution. Bees are dying off across America as well as birds Einstein even predicted the bees would die off and that would mark the end of humanity
All of y'all mocking this documentary are quite obviously a/. completely out of touch with science and current global trends or b/. in denial. Or of course there is c/. stupid. Although this may be slightly sensationalist, essentially the problems are real ones and most are well under way already. This century will see a convergence of crisis that will make the world a very different place. Wake the f*ck up!
What a joke: the USA is not leading in anything.
i loved the honesty of docs.collapse was one of my favorites but i would of loved to talk to the author that there is hope i study alt.energy as a hobbie and there is pollutionless energy out there.we have to stop the chem-trailing and go back to organic food.go back to glass containers for water,stop fractering and use human friendly building materials.i would have a cell phone for emerginceys but they are terrible for humans and they know were you are at every minute.
I waited to get to the good parts. I am fully aware that our resource based economy is headed for a brick wall. Simple math is all that is needed for that. I sat through the "Reading Rainbow" format and was prepared to keep watching. But then... when they got to the part where they predicted The US will be invaded by masses of immigrants... LOL What a crock of egotistical BS. Lets all go to the country that's money has been completely devalued. Let's go to the country that has sold off it's resources (oil) long ago and lives in a world of debt. Lets leave our countries that are still rooted to the earth and where many of out populations live a simple yet content life. To go to America! Where the spoiled rotten population has all gone mad because the supercenters closed! Seriously... ABC news has gone to sewer... just like all the others. I can understand "good propaganda" but this is just stupid, and self absorbed.
People are going to kill them selves well the human brain is so simplistic we can't solve even the simple domestic problems with are facing us today so sad . 100,000 yrs. is how long modern human has been on this planet I wonder how long we have believed that the end of the world is going to happen in our life time ? Well ^*%^ it lets all jump off a cliff , GOOD-BYE see you at the bottom
I hated this format.
I see hwo this does not make sense to people: just like soldiers get merciless playing their videogame war in Iraq, people forget they have the ability to think scenarios based on observations and try to make pitches about these ideas on television.
This is to me, a collection of information and its interpretations, with an Alex Jones style taste of fear mongering to it, but blaming us comfort seeking selves. It is peak oil theory based and it applies to only us here, driving in the endless flow of Tahoes and Suburbans which seems to be the smallest car a guy wants these days, towards the greastest of all destinations: walmart and target, where one can get all they need to try to get that hot date to third base.
We all seem to forget that in this world of supply and demand, supply of basic commodities is going down the drain and demand is increasing: china, india, Brazil, Russia, Indonesia and the rest of the world also wants the good life, where driving around smoking a blunt having 7eleven taquitos and a coke.... with that hot date.
All of it seems real to me, and not because I was told it was: it is because I know that there are some good ol boys out there calling all the shots and makings rules to nanny everyone from their ability to test and experiment and experience change making. It is because there are many people who got their election bill paid by Super Awesome Corp and have some big strings attached. It is because bureaucrat italian suited men when sitting in meetings don't want any innovation in key fields like housing more efficienty so we don't have to build these immensely inneficient subdivisions. It is because we are collectively seeking for pleasure at absolutely zero cost as if we are all worthy of lottery winning tickets. We are as I see it, stuck in a slow cycle of efficiency and topped with the illusion that we are doing it all right.
So, for all I know, and with my limited scientific knowledge, it seems that it is all very unsustainable with current systems in place, because we ultimately dont care if hundreds of thousands of albatrozes die per year as long as the fish we serve to our prized date night is there at the market. It does not matter if we were born with a consciousness over all our actions.... what matters is.... laying that exotic looking girl with big lips and a mexican accent... comprehende???
Really loved this docu...
A warning for everyone
MLARGH~ I couldn't even get through the fist 5 minutes!
good doc not based in reality all the time. do like that we are doing mock U.N. meeting for future problems. that will cause probs.
ps vagas will be there in 40 years lake mead dryin up wont stop it to much money there
Oh one other thing they didn't add about the U.S. is the massive amount of wars we will be involved in for the rest of the 21st century cause we just do what we are told. =/
Good example at what the future could potentially look like. Kinda was lenient on the reality of our situation though but kept it politically correct. Corruption, greed, and inefficiency are much bigger problems then climate change any day. There was one line in it that proves it wasn't made as global warming propaganda Part 8 7:25 it clearly says "GOVERNMENTS AND INDUSTRY'S are going to have to change on a massive scale". Also if your literate, you understand there are good and bad propaganda. This came across to me as a wake up and take action type. After it explains all that is POSSIBLE it gives plenty of suggestions to improve it. Course without people standing up for humanity together we will continue to bail out corporations that don't give a F*** about us. Leading to something like this at a much more rapid pace then even they forecast. When it comes to the "lawless" areas popping up your looking at marshal law so that would be something they didn't add. Ignorance is bliss til you hit the "No ignorance beyond this point" wall and you realize that people 100 years ago had a much better chance and applicable skills at survival then you do now. =P
Hopefully its more solutions then his previous ones. Needs to be manageable by the masses to lol. Last few were like perfect world scenarios which were kinda waste of time for the moment imo. Fresco had already done plenty and stated most of what he did.
This didn't have anything to do with the rise in price of oil. Its been forecast for a LONG time that crude will have to hit $180 a barrel or $7 a gallon before the price will be stable for the reserves left. Before you spew more ignorance do you even understand that fossil fuels took about 200 million years (beginning of Jurassic Age) to accumulate to the level they were at before the industrial revolution. Also the fact china is now using as much oil as the US and probably passing soon. Don't even look into what other places have to pay right now compared to US cause its all traded in USD. Which probably wont last much longer, then it will be another huge jump if that happens. >.<
Actually it is a little bit hotter now then it was back then but its also approaching a solar maximum very soon which you mentioned. Yes they are preparing the "ignorant masses" (as you put it) for the New World Order. Its being put in school text books now so it is being promoted by them already... Probably making their move soon for globalization to maintain their control financially. Which potentially could lead to scenarios like this faster if they have their way. Less people = more control its logical. If you divide by how few people are "awake" now today the human race would be really enslaved then. I'll call it a "Perfect Orwell Scenario". =/
yeah i appear to have missed part 2 as well
oh and yes .... fearmongering.
but maybe more.
if you do a little research then you would find information which tends to say that global warming has halted. that is, there has been no net increase in global temperatures since about 1998.
also, the planet's climate is driven buy MUCH BIGGER players than mere CO2 production. that is, solar activity and cosmic radiation have a far greater impact on our weather. research this yourselves and you'll see.
further, if this is the case then why are there doccos like this one? could this be some sort of preparation for the ignorant masses to get ready for a huge population cull?
WHERE IS PART TWOOOOO!
man ive been working for 24hours straight on dam floor plans i need a good laugh so im clicking play....
haha This doc is all shock and awe, I agree with some of the issues, but seriously by 2050 or 2100 w.e, I think we will have things under control artificially, and we wont have to be Vegans or a hippies lmao (hopefully at least)
wow fear mongering much?
"Interesting propaganda from ABC"
Best quote ever. The media prepares us for the end of the world mentally. We spend more if we think there's no tomorrow, and it also justifies price increases.
This really is just a bunch of nonsense. It's entertainment wrapped in a blanket of possibility.
"oil, oil, oil" Justify that oil price increase some more. No one is making record profits this year. I hope.
Oh! My goodness! we have to go green! Solar! Wind! Buy emergency kits for natural disasters $99.95, Obama is a prophet, Solar, Solar! Everyone has to get a lung function test and a methane emission test so that the respiration & fart tax can be implemented. I am so glad ABC is around to show us the future so that we can do what?
Cant wait for Zeitgeist: Moving Forward
The sky is falling!, Run for the hills!!!!