The Marketing of Madness: Are We All Insane?

The Marketing of Madness: Are We All Insane?

Ratings: 7.30/10 from 167 users.

The Marketing of Madness: Are We All Insane?The Marketing of Madness is the definitive documentary on the psychiatric drugging industry. Here is the real story of the high income partnership between psychiatry and drug companies that has created an $80 billion psychotropic drug profit centre.

But appearances are deceiving. How valid are psychiatrists’ diagnoses – and how safe are their drugs? Digging deep beneath the corporate veneer, this three-part documentary exposes the truth behind the slick marketing schemes and scientific deceit that conceal dangerous and often deadly sales campaigns.

In this film you'll discover that... Many of the drugs side effects may actually make your ‘mental illness’ worse. Psychiatric drugs can induce aggression or depression. Some psychotropic drugs prescribed to children are more addictive than cocaine. Psychiatric diagnoses appears to be based on dubious science. Of the 297 mental disorders contained with the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, none can be objectively measured by pathological tests.

Mental illness symptoms within this manual are arbitrarily assigned by a subjective voting system in a psychiatric panel. It is estimated that 100 million people globally use psychotropic drugs.

The Marketing of Madness exposes the real insanity in our psychiatric ‘health care’ system: profit-driven drug marketing at the expense of human rights.

This film plunges into an industry corrupted by corporate greed and delivers a shocking warning from courageous experts who value public health over dollar.

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356 Comments / User Reviews

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  1. Spoiler alert. This is not a documentary but thinly disguised anti-psychiatry propaganda.

  2. If anybody that doubts this film obviously they have not been affected by this abusive death culture which destroys in the aim of helping so-called illness. The do no evil or do no damage principle is clearly not followed by these industries nor by any medico that prescribes these medicines in particular for young people or children.

  3. While many of the points made are on target, many are extreme and misleading, which ultimately discredits the very position the film seems to want to make. I say "seems to" because this was produced by an organization, the CCHR, which was created and is controlled by Scientology, and their anti-psychiatry efforts have had the effect of actually discrediting the more legitimate critics of psychiatry. Those of us working from a harm reduction, pro-choice, and client-centered perspective find we are discredited by association with perspectives such as those found in this film. So I encourage you to connect with the legitimate movement critiquing psychiatry, and not to buy into Scientology. A more heart centered and rational critique, committed to truth, is much more powerful than a cult agenda driven propaganda approach. The sooner Scientology gets out of the way the sooner legitimate voices critiquing psychiatry can be heard.

  4. Ide like to talk to the producer..the goverment is actually funding isis through 5150..the gov.pays 1000$ a day for people to sit in a little room...they kept a girl in a mentalhealth to keep her in line for her isis loving ex..they kept hertherec42 daysand received 42.000$ a downpayment on a house..our redding ca mentalhealth have used the equiptment isis built in the united states to murder over 50 thousand peoples brains..the same eqiptment is in isis mentalhealth work for isis..the gov pays mentalhealth ..= our gov paying for isis to kill us in our own country after theyve properly harvested the poor organs to fix the working class

  5. If I could give this film a zero out of 10, I would. I'm betting the two good reviews it got here were from Scientologists, considering that they produced this crap. I don't think psychiatry is without its faults, and I think the rest of the medical profession needs to demand more accountability from psychiatry and that hard data from repeatable research will, over time, determine which psychiatric treatments work and which don't. But I want data on that, and NOT from scientologists or their supporters! They're nutcases, and their assertions are neither plausible nor backed up by peer reviewed research. This is a jeremiad riddled with assertions, nothing more, and richly deserves contempt. But it certainly doesn't deserve your time or any of your money.

    1. Wow. David Miscarriage must have stock in Elly-Lilli.

  6. I stopped watching this right at the criticism of DSM. To be diagnosed by DSM for depression : You have had an episode of depression lasting at least two weeks with at least five of the following symptoms: (1) You are depressed, sad, blue, tearful. (2) You have lost interest or pleasure in things you previously liked to do. (3) Your appetite is much less or much greater than usual and you have lost or gained weight. (4) You have a lot of trouble sleeping or sleep too much. (5) You are so agitated, restless, or slowed down that others have begun to notice. (6) You are tired and have no energy. (7) You feel worthless or excessively guilty about things you have done or not done. (8) You have trouble concentrating, thinking clearly, or making decisions. (9) You feel you would be better off dead or have thoughts about killing yourself. AND These symptoms are severe enough to upset your daily routine, or to seriously impair your work, or to interfere with your relationships. AND The depression does not have a specific cause like alcohol, drugs, medication side effect, or physical illness. AND Your depression is not just a normal reaction to the death of a loved one.

    The documentary was saying everyone fits into these categories. Sorry but thats a lie. People should use their digression - If you fit this i would suggest first seeing a psychologist or talking to a friend to get some clarity on the reason why you may be feeling this way, however if you feel in desperate need for an escape go to the psychiatrist who will give you some drugs that will hopefully only be needed for a short period of time until your body naturally can cope on its own.

    Psychiatrists are trained in medicine first so thats what they know - they will try and fix problems using medicine which isn't always the best way however sometimes is appropriate. The reason they prescribe so much is because thats what their job is - if you want someone to talk about your problems with go to a friend or family member however if it something out of their hands and you don't know how to handle it try a psychologist.

    DSM is very good - if someone is prescribing you medication and not using DSM I would think critically about their motives and look into side effects and misuse of the drug.

    This documentary is just so 1 sided its ridiculous - its actually an incredibly unscientific way of looking at what we know.

  7. My state representatives received this DVD in the mail. I viewed it with one of them. This "documentary," made by one of the Church of Scientology's front organizations, is a boring, repetitious, and bizarre mix of highly selective information, rapid-fire mini-sound bites from people in the street repeating short phrases or single words (e.g. "bipolar" "Zoloft"), "experts" opinions, and ominously-colored and flashing graphs and numbers (e.g. millions of dollars) with portentous-sounding voice-overs. The message is that psychiatry is a mercenary hoax threatening everyone and that psychiatric medications have no good effects and kill lots of people. Since the film provides no research supporting claims made in the film and the "experts'" credentials — and even, in many cases, their actual positions regarding psychiatry — seemed dubious, I looked for facts online. I was saved considerable time because someone else had already checked all the presenters that could be found and had written them asking if they were aware of the nature of the film they appeared in, providing them with the minutes where their comments appeared so that they could check to see what was included in the film. Some seem to have responded. I found an extensive article by University of Texas bioethicist Dr. Howard Brody who appears often in the film. In his article he expresses his positive opinion of psychiatry and psychotropic medication and presents a clear and careful analysis of the entire film. I can't include the URL but it isn't hard to find. I also found a statement by a state representative from another state about how he narrowly escaped publicly endorsing Scientology's anti-psychiatry position, explaining, "They misled me." (not by this film, however). There may be a good documentary somewhere about the very real problems with the pharmaceutical industry: the profiteering, the way they advertise, conflicts of interest by professionals, etc., — but this isn't it. This video merely promotes Dr. Thomas Szasz's incorrect ideas from his half-century old book in complete ignorance of facts and sound subsequent research.

    1. Indeed you have been miscarried mate. And yeah, go get yourself a good helping of each of the drugs under discussion in this DOCUMENTARY. Oh wait... You are obviously on heaps of them already or a shill for the drug companies. Most likely both. And, lastly, you're an *****. Bam! That just happened. Should you have any other comments don't bother.

  8. I need a pill because I'm addicted to topdocumentaryfilms. Very informative & I believe every single word of it, every other t.v programming commercial is are you sad? Here take this are you shaking your leg you have shaking leg syndrome. The side effects include insomnia overeating, tiredness, lazy, lack of achieving your goals today. Hateful toward family and family pets. Thoughts of suicide, drinking too much coffee. But remember we're here to help. Oh by the way does your child want to play outside? Here's a pill for him/her.

    1. The symptoms of the most significant and long-lasting nature are also hidden and now only listed under the federal legislature reporting adverse symptoms. if this was clearly known in public in all the detail, the ads the overprescription, the complete indoctrination of the general public in general would be stopped immediately.

  9. This was a very good documentary I give it a 10/10. I like the way they answer questions that usually come up while seeing the doc, also there is a lot of interviews meaning this took time to put together.

  10. Oh, I GET IT! Ignorance=Truth. I forgot. Thank-you, Orwell.

  11. This documentary applies to the pharmaceutical industry in general -- not just the mental disorder aspect, but overall -- virtually all their poisons are overprescribed, toxic and peddled by a corrupt entity

    1. Yet we don´t have anything to rely on except for the western medicine, in this aspect. The problem is money as usual. western medication is not an evil entity, but the people who prescripe it to you, will perpetually prioritize their fiscal, personal gain over your wellbeing if the option is presented to them.

    2. True and that's why I have avoided doctors for over a decade now and I'm healthier now than I was as a teenager. Also they are misinformed in their education. They get barely any nutrition education; anyone can see good nutrition is the basis for good health yet most doctors barely discuss it. I began educating myself on health a decade ago and realized I don't need doctors now I am learning about nutrition and herbs as the way to both prevent and heal illness, both chronic and acute. The plants are more powerful than their poisons. Not to mention far less expensive and non-toxic (if used appropriately) as well.

  12. I am 16 years old and suffer from Depression, OCD, GAD, Panic Disorder, and Trichotillomania. I was hospitalized 5 times for depression and anxiety between 14 and 15 years old. I felt like a guinea pig- when one drug didn't work, they fed me another one. I had no say in the medications, and I was forced to take them, even if I did not want them. I was prescribed Prozac at age 13, which lead to my first hospitalization. During my stays there, psychiatrists whom I had never met prescribed Lexapro, Trazadone, Abilify, Prazocin, Lamotrigine, Zoloft, and Risperdol. The last one, Risperdal, was supposed to be a mood stabilizer. However, it made me very impulsive and irrational, and led to me gaining more than 30 lbs in less than a year. I am off of that awful drug now, and am still struggling to lose all the weight it made me gain. I am now on the highest dose of Zoloft I can take and Lamotrigine. I cannot wait until I am able to make my own choices and be off these drugs. I feel like nothing but harm has come to me from taking all these medications that supposedly help.

    1. Hi Lauren. I just saw this post and noticed that it was written 5 1/2 years ago. I'd love to find out how you are now? Did you end up getting off the medication?

  13. My only issue is that they never mention counseling or support groups as alternative to drug therapy.

  14. i get this movies point but those drugs work without it i would have killed myself last year that i'm still on today and now i'm so happy my anxiety is disappearing i can actually were what i wanna were and say what i wanna say and do sports without freaking out and if its all about the money then how come it only cost me 4 bucks for prozac, ya i live in canada so they subsidise some meds but if it was just
    about money than Psychiatric drugs wouldn't be part of that subsidy, they work and help. The people who die from it have no hope in it and already messed and convinced there's no hope when in reality its just there brain getting use to it, example: the first week i was sick the next 2 weeks i was extremely suicidal but i fought against those thoughts knowing that its just a side effect it will go away and it did sure i didn't feel different but after 4 months i got dexedrine for add to take with prozac i still take both today and i instantly noticed a difference its awesome to go to school and see all the teachers who lost hope in me faces of shock

  15. Mental health doctors need to be pioneers like some are doing to push medical marijuana as a legal option; it matters more to have a quality of life than to submitt to what big business and textbooks call treatment. "The American Way" is poison to our minds.

  16. The fight against bad psychiatry would have a lot more credibility if Scientology wasn't involved in it.

    1. Who cares who the messenger is if the message is the truth.

    2. Because people won't believe the truth if it comes from a source that isn't credible.

    3. Here, here! This woman has no idea what valid research is. Like most in this camp of gurus, she is preaching to a choir of idiots, and undermining arguments that REALLY need to be had about the separation of science from profit.

    4. Just in case you missed it science ad populum( scientia/knowledge) is the new means to profit, it used to be the church but King Henry the 8th tore up the contract with the romans come vadican and the royal beggars and hangers on (barons ,dukes and earls and empire builders still operating today) needed a new method to hold the popular imagination, goodbye priests and robes, hello experts and lab coats, you see profit, it may be a free market , but that doesn't make you a free individual until you see how the game has been played older then the eygptian version of walmart in the desert, truth is stranger then fiction, ask a quantum lecturer, beware the quantum professor asking for credit on your account.

  17. I was asked to appear in this documentary. After I told them I wanted it to be stated that I was not involved with the Church of Scientology, I did not hear from the producer again. I'm a sociological researcher and writer in the area of mental health. Though these drugs are vastly overprescribed, some people need them to live. The truth is that Big Pharma is evil - no surprises there - and unless science becomes a non-profit industry instead of a corporate empire, what do you expect? In our current world we have to start thinking for ourselves. Turn off the TV. And don't think all of these documentaries are all that much better, and by better I mean "not propaganda". Read the labels, for one. If you're too depressed to do so, you probably need an antidepressant, and Effexor, Wellbutrin, and Cymbalta, unlike SSRIs, most definitely work for many people. If you aren't, read the labels and decide for yourself what you're willing to go through in the future for the sake of your mental health, which is by no means a matter to be taken lightly. 20% of people with bipolar disorder die of suicide. There's no "conspiracy" about that.

    1. I disagree that any single person needs to take anti-depressants. Most depression comes from a chemical imbalance, and what is food comprised of? Chemicals. Most Americans are a victim of their own diet which leads to toxicity and nutritional deficiencies. There are clinical, scientific, published studies that prove supplementing with magnesium, Omega 3 oils, etc. are just as if not more effective than these toxic poisons peddled by big pharma. Before you get angry, do the research first.

  18. Do Americans over-medicate? Hell yes! But that's completely different from saying that mental illnesses are made up things with no physical symptoms. Pshyco-motor retardation, disturbance of the normal sleep patterns and sever weight loss are all physical symptoms of chronic depression.

    I wish I would have known this sooner. I bought into this idea of mental illness
    just a superficial marketing campaign. If I would have known any better I wouldn't have waited two suicide attempts, uncountable incidences of self-harm and five years of being in complete, excruciating emotional pain before I decided that seeking professional help is in order.

  19. I watched this program on local television in South Africa 2 nights ago. I just had to share it with my friends, so I have now shared it to my FB profile. THIS is insane - the cruelty of this practice and - all those who are involved in it. God bless all who are sensitive - and also those who are sensitive and are being flushed down the drain because they are.

  20. This documentary was produced by a Scientology front group called citizens commission on human rights.

    1. The truth is the truth, no matter who speaks it.

    2. Are you kidding? Please, please PLEASE say yes. I know Robert Whittaker and other prominent figures featured in some of their "documentaries". All are horrified that they appeared in such unscientific TRASH.

  21. I am bipolar and I refuse to take my meds unless I am getting unwell. Why would I want to take something that just numbs me out and can result in facial twitches?. I want to be able to feel. Not live as though I am wrapped in a wet sheet and can't relate to people. If I get unwell i'll take them..BUT I refuse to live a life full of pills just so that I can be "normal".

    1. I wouldnt suggest to mess with meds like that, it can kill you. Most often than not someone with Bipolar doesnt like the meds because they dont want to not have the manic state, so you can try and convince yourself with the comment you made but you need to come to realize that you may be lying to yourself

    2. I don't just go off them. i wean off them over a period of a couple of weeks. But apart from that, I have had the diagnosis for 24 years and so rely more on awareness of my triggers. Management through learning what to look out for in behavior and thinking processes is what i use. Stress management. I also see a psychologist weekly.

  22. What happens when you put label is that you start believe those labels. It doesnt mean that mentaly or physical "illness" sint real. I just prefer to see anything as an imbalance and each one of us have to find balance in our lives. As a child learns to walk by falling down, get up again and move on until learns to balance. Thats our human nature, physically, mentally, psychollogically. Using drugs as a first remedy takes away the natural potential of the human body or soul or whatever anyone wants to call it to heal. if a child that learns to walk start giving medicines for dysfunctional movement orientation and psychologically inability to cope with situations, doesnt that sound insane? As adults, as we grow up the fall , is much harder sometimes and just takes more time to find our balance back, shoud we then be so hard on ourselves or let other judge us that hard? Its fault of our humanity to just support each other, to take time when someone falls down to let that person stand up again. Unfortunately we better give pills so to get rid of the situation or problem as quickly as possibly. It takes time as a baby learns to walk...think about it.

  23. Um, this documentary was created and funded by a Scientology group known as Citizens Commission of Human Rights. You cannot trust a cult that consistently lies and manipulates people, then makes garbage documentaries. There is no doubt that pharmacy companies are a problem, but this doc completely exaggerated the truth. And if you wanna follow there cult like message, you really do need psychiatric help. Mental illness is a serious problem, and people truly do suffer from it. Crap like this only makes the problem worse, it doesn't solve anything. Shame on you Scientology.

    1. I googled around a little, and I found you are absolutely right! I suspected a problem when the narrator attempted to cast Paranoid Personality as "suspicion", and bipolar disorder as "ups and down", and I went to read some of the comments.
      Thank you so much for the heads up. These people have no idea what they are talking about. Mental illness is a very real struggle, and casting it off as unreal or exaggerated is only going to make the lives of the people who suffer that much harder. ShameShameShame.

    2. I didn't notice any exaggeration. The truth is the truth.

  24. I didn't watch it, as soon as I saw the comparison between a broken bone and depression. This is exactly why all of my life I've met judgemental, aggressive people who dismissed my 10 year struggle as "imagination", and that I could've cured with "will power". Seriously, I cannot believe the stigma is still propagated.
    I've been diagnosed with BPD (and other effects from this, like anxiety, depression, etc), and honestly, pills made me better. My psychiatrist is a wonderful person, and not once have I felt that she's trying to "buy" me.
    It's frustrating that people dismiss the diseases of the brain, the most important organ in the organism, with the logic "what you can't visibly see isn't there". It's the brain, we don't know it at all yet, but what we know isn't "made up by companies". Stupid conspiracies.

  25. money is the root of all evil -the conclusion of this documentary!

  26. IBOGAINE is the answer....plant from nature = god

    it reverses addiction and cures all types of disorders, nobody knows about it...

  27. I've been diagnosed with bipolar, social anxiety, generalized anxiety disorder, ADHD, and clinical depression.

    This means:
    Bipolar: Lithium, Lamotrigine.
    Anxiety: Venlafaxine (SSNRIs), changed from Diazepam > Clonazepam > Alprazolam, Nitrazepam to Flunitrazepam, as well as Triazolam.

    Benzodiazepines does no good in the end, but when you're having panic attacks, and it feels like you're going to die, it helps A LOT.

    ADHD: Ritalin was the worst piece of junk ever, suicidal thoughts and so on. Went over to pure Dexedrine, then later to Desoxyn.

    The ADHD medication there actually changed my life, so guess it's not a bad thing, eh?

    I have to say, just like Hunter S. Thompson said:

    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me."

  28. I'M Neutral about this, But ill give you guys something to think about.

    (Fact) There's people who are really sick.
    (Fact) If there's money to be made people will find a way.

    ~Shady gift~

  29. Someone down below said it was lazy psychiatrists and i totally agree with this. I dont believe there are many new 'disorders', i think society today is less tolerant of any abnormality. If your not feeling ok-take a pill- you will be fine. People have so much time on their hands now and the vast majority have no real purpose or focus in their life, they get up, go to work, come home, eat rubbish food cus they are too tired to cook properly, watch tv for some brainwashed escapism then go to bed and do it all again tomorrow, unless they have kids also then they have to deal with media induced guilt that they are not doing the right thing for their children if they havent go the lastest gadget etc. They told us to work more would be better for us cus we could buy more things, it hasnt done that, its made adults tired and stressed and its left children to the tv and internet childminder. We are literally brainwashed into thinking only one way of life is the right way, if there is any deviation from this you have 'issues' and need to be medicated so you are acceptable to society. There are occasions when medication is definatly necessary we all agree that, the rest is media and sociatal insecurities and intolerance. Get a focus in life, understand staying home with your children is FAR better for mother and for children, turn your TV off and discover eachother. Communicate in the family unit and talk about problems without fear and not in the cliches that everyone seems to talk in now because they are afraid to articulate in their own words. When you let up the pressure on yourself to conform to what you think people want you to be stress reduces, when stress reduces you can go onto what a few people below have promoted - healthy eating, exercise, communication, throw in education and discovery of the world beyond what school taught you. The first question to ask yourself is 'exactly why are you doing the things you are doing', the answer 'because i always have' isnt good enough'
    Rant over :-D

    1. However, you cannot deny that there are genuine issues people suffer from. I for example cannot directly and immediately override my OCD by sheer force of will; that requires competent, directed Cognitive Behavioral Therapy to erode the response to stressors so that I can accomplish this and have a less intrusive reaction to them. It can be helped with medications such as some SSRIs, but this is just a stepstool to help reach a higher shelf and not a cure in itself.

      Competent psychiatrists inform their patients about this. They direct them to practitioners experienced with the relevant therapies and plan out dosages to minimize side effects. This is the sane way to handle such a regimen. If psychiatrists are not conducting themselves properly, the answer to the problem is to bring the psychiatrists into line with recommendations, not throw out accumulated research and its products in their entirety.

  30. he Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR) is an advocacy group established in 1969 by the Church of Scientology and psychiatrist Thomas Szasz. Reference Citizens Commission on Human Rights. Retrieved on September 26, 2009. "Citizens Commission on Human Rights International 6616 Sunset Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90028"

    This is a biased organization Keep on believing in the false conspiracies.

  31. marijuana maybe better than all this

    1. Yes, marijuana IS better than all this harmful crap. Imagine if they gave out joints instead of pills, what a difference that would be..but they don’t want people to be healthy and independent. They just want you complacent and ignorant so you keep supporting their capitalist economy and structure.

    2. Please read about Ewen Cameron the trusting patients he tortured .

  32. LOL, brandon and the bipolar bear was a book designed for children living with a parent suffering from bipolar, in order to help the child understand with mummy or daddy was acting the way there were

    omg this S**** was hilarious

  33. The video the government and the Big Pharma Companies don't want you to see because it will wake you up to the truth that the government and the Big Pharma Companies are poisoning the populace with their toxic and death causing meds and vaccines. Spread this video to others and wake everyone up to the truth.

    1. You need a slap from a parent who was tortured & labelled by " so called doctors "

  34. Medication should only be used in extreme cases where patients are at great risk. The sad fact is though that a lot of people are misdiagnosed and end up on medications for no reason. Feeling sad doesn't mean you are depressed. Ups and downs are apart of life. Take me for instance, I had a very traumatic couple of years and was struggling. I gave up on life for a while, I stopped exercising, ate badly, stayed inside in front of the tv and just tried to shut everything out. Eventually I was put on anti depressants and all it did was make me sick and numb. I wasn't myself, I didn't feel happy, sad, anything. Eventually I decided to take matters into my own hands. I changed my diet, I exercised, I got out into the world and I found things to make me happy. That works better than any drug AND THERE ARE NO SIDE EFFECTS.
    I am aware this doesn't work for everyone, but as a nutritional medicine student I see the power proper food, exercise and positive thinking has on your health. Health is a lifestyle choice. Medication should only be needed in emergency situations.

    1. Even people who need medication should be still doing all the stuff you just mentioned. Good diet, exercise, spirituality, journal, etc. should all be used in combination with medication. I agree that medication is over prescribed, but there are cases where it becomes necessary. However, there are lots of people that have become so depressed (even suicidal) and suddenly were determined enough to pull out of it through perfectly natural changes to the way they lived life.

    2. Are you sure the ones prescribing you the meds didn't help you?
      Maybe they knew your pain and since they realized you were giving up on life......purposely pushed you a little farther with the meds. Since you talked to people about this, they might have picked up on your characteristics. Maybe they knew you had a drive ( like telling them you 'used' to like working out) that might be kicked back to life if they gave you some meds that would show you what an even lower hole looks like. Just will make you sick enough to look at even an aspirin to this day.... maybe? I'm just asking because you seem like a fine well ajusted person looks like their wrong diagnosis kicked a vital human instinct back to life....who cares how it long as it happened!
      Just maybe:????????????????
      There is a lot of people that go in and use the system to get free drugs? What did I just say...""? Now if I look at that from an addicts mind set and had to treat this person, what would I do to help this persons physical health first. I'd write down a list? No, this person is obviously a drug abuser so they obviously need to be seen, even though their intentions were to get free meds. Now,having the mind set of a true addict the only reason their allowed to see me IS because of their intentions... which is only a natural trait from years of getting their drugs. Knowing that a drastic situation is in order with their dependency I'll give them the safest drug that would have the closest eurphoria to the drug they've been tortured with for years. Just by doing that I've got them in the mind set of not breaking the law...and begins a safer more logical solution then having people running in the street looking for sh*t.......maybe by helping them get some meds/legal drugs will begin the process of them worrying less on how to get the street drugs their after, and more time working on WHY they feel the need to self medicate.

      Maybe/maybe/maybe/maybe......sounds like in both cases a problem seemed to be kinda...solved. Don't matter how it was did get done...right?

  35. Show me the Proof Psychologists!

    Oh yeah, a Great deal of Psychology is based on Pure Observation and little Testing. (The Brain is the most complicated thing in the Universe)
    The brain is so complex, what makes people think there smarted than the rest of Humanity? :)

    However there ARE People who have mental problems.

  36. I can not continue to watch this. As a mental health Nurse I can not believe this biased opinion. It is these kind of ideas that prevent people seeking treatment. If you have worked with a person experiencing severe psychosis and distress, then you will understand that its not as simple as "Oh they're just shy" or "everyone feels sad, get over it". What they are experienceing IS real to them and to make someone believe that they don't need treatment, or to deny them some relief is really cruel. I do agree that some medications have undesired side effects which is why there are so many different types available and all come with wanings of side effects. They instruct people to see a doctor immediately if they experience any of these effects. There is no way that they would be advised to continue taking medication if this was the case.
    Also, the notion that people suffering mental illness are forced to take these drugs is ridiculous. The only people that end up being admitted to hospital for treatment are assessed by professionals to be at a high risk of harm to themselves or others.
    Part of the process of recovery from mental illness is to assist people to keep well, education about self management, assisting them to live a normal and fulfilling life as possible. Medications are probably only ten percent of the treatment and recovery process.

    1. I agree that for some people there is a genuine problem that requires SOME FORM of treatment, but 'severe psychosis and distress' are not the symptoms of most people. The lack of a chemical test and the obvious and unchecked financial ties between psychiatrists, FDA and the pharmaceutical industry can't be denied and urgently needs to be addressed. Also, you cannot condone the psychotropic drugging of pre-teen children or the fact that companies can pay extra to legally get their drug fast-tracked through the FDA.

      Making somebody believe that they should see the biological method as a last resort AFTER attempting lifestyle changes is not cruel. Anybody considering taking a medication should be made fully aware of the financial influence exerted over the testing and approval processes - I have a friend who, after watching a similar doc to this one still went on to take psychotropic medication because, after the lifestyle adjustments, he still felt it was necessary - but he was at least aware of the full picture.

      Also, I think the term 'forced' can be applied to a professional armed with jargon and qualifications spinning the need for a drug to an often vulnerable and comparatively uninformed patient, not just when you're held down and injected. There are plenty of healthcare professionals who are only in it for the cash.

      The majority of 'mental problems' prevalent today are the product of our unfulfilled, hollow societies - status anxious, financially unequal, without community and awash with the Bernays-corporate carrot dangling of consumerism as the cure (but in reality partial cause) for it all. If big pharma gets its way we will live in a Soma world.

    2. You are absolutely incorrect. People are forced to take medications everyday TID and QID. It's called court ordered treatment. As far as your 10% of the treatment- go to a community based treatment clinic and see how many peopel are attending group as opposed to how many are sitting waiting to see a"nurse" or "Dr." Finally, look around you there are people everywhere suffering from the side effects and when they stop taking the meds they have a withdrwal effect that produces symptoms far worse than their original complaint.

    3. Your whole profession and life career is a lie. In fact, go back to where your European ancestors came from..maybe when you acknowledge that you’re living on stolen land and that years of government and corporate corruption which your parents have probably been a part of, has lead many people to a shitty reality, things will get better. But right now I which is why we’re experiencing so many imbalances in the’s your karma and Mother Earth is speaking up against corruption.

  37. I found working with young children helped with my depression. I got off the meds once I started getting calls from elementary schools. I especially love substituting for Art and Music teachers, because the students ready participate in the discuss on the history context of these subjects. I think it's the sense of fulfilling a purpose in life that is the true cure to depression... not these meds that psychiatrist force upon their patients.

  38. My personal experience has shown that depression is very real and disruptive, so what can be done, other than going to the doctor for some relief?

    1. From my own experience, I can tell you that getting some serious exercise helps a lot, because it alters brain chemistry in positive ways very quickly. The problem can be motivation, though, if you're going through a bout of it. But if you can find the will to at least get a long walk in every other day, preferably in a nature setting, that can work some real magic for you.

    2. My mum went through some serious depression. She did hit the uppers for a while but I took her horse riding with me, something she hadn't done since she was little. The exercise and the horses themselves had an amazing affect. I'm not saying it was a miracle cure but it made a massive difference.

    3. Read about Ewan Cameron .
      Disgusting torture of depressed patients

  39. Other than that one appointment..I don't trust doctors, of any sort. But thats just me, I'm sure there are some truly caring doctors out there, but I'm not sticking my neck out

  40. I'm sure the pharmaceutical industry is as greedy and manipulative and dishonest and evil as every other industry... Run by rich capitalists and preying on the poor. Still...

    I've had bipolar as long as I can remember, even though I was not diagnosed until adulthood. People who believe disorders like this do not exist need to shut the hell up because they have no idea what they're talking about. No one can tell me I have not lived through the internal horrors that I experience. I was skeptical about medicine for years and wouldn't see doctors. I'd still love to live my life without these drugs. However, they put me in the position to function somewhat, and that will have to do for now.

    Come up with something better, and I'll listen.

    1. First off I'd like to say I'm not attacking your opinion. Medications help you function, if it works for you thats grand. I've also been diagnosed with bipolar disease, as well as almost every woman in my family, whom are so pumped up with pills it's disturbing, it doesn't work for them. When I was diagnosed I decided to change the way I live. I focused on changing my thought pattern, inwards and outwards. I changed my diet. I used mind over matter and did so with complete confidence that my body and soul would heal. Overall it's worked for a good 8 years. I still have highs and lows, but I take control over the negativity and not let them consume. Were not slaves to sub conscious bodily functions, although thats what we've been spoon fed by society. That we have no control over our body and mind. I disagree.
      But these are just my opinions, and it works for me, everyone's entitled to think what they want and take what they want if it works for them.

  41. This was a very interesting doc and it causes me to question some things about what I have been lead to believe about my own mental health issues and treatment. It would however, be interesting to hear what Psychiatrists and other mental health professionals have to say. I find it hard to imagine that the entire field of mental illness and treatment was solely developed based on profit. Yes money and profit is a big driving force, but that can be true of many areas of medical breakthroughs in all areas of medicine.

    I believe that there is so much about the human brain that science still does not understand and there are individuals out there that do have legitimate mental health issues that do require the care of a mental health professional.

    Since the diagnosis of mental health diagnosis is such a grey area of medicine as the way individuals deal with situations varies from one person to the next, it does make it difficult to determine who is truly ill and who is not. Therefore, society has put so much pressure on health professionals that it has sled down this slippery slope we are faced with today, that the companies do exploit. As health consumers, I feel that what we all need to take away from this is that we need to be more informed about the diagnosis we are given in order to choose safer treatment for ourselves. People also need to realize that psychotropic drugs alone as a treatment for mental health issues are not going to fix the issues. It should be in conjunction with psychotherapy in order to achieve better results.

  42. we need to take a more active role in our medicating.there should b choices and then a they just dicide what u need in less than a minute ,and thats what u get

  43. Are there any psyciatrists or knowledgable folk, who could argue for the other side,Id b interested to get both sides,To start off with are they aware that mental illnesses and there drugs, quite oviously come around in trends

  44. thier is a sucker born every time a human is born and hopfully he changes after time. my wife and i have both learned by experience the worthlessness of antidepressents. some just continue to make money by working the system. some like to make money by convincing you tto buy usana prodcts to be healty and some prosack to be happy. be wise

  45. omfg... two minutes in and i'm turning this s*** off. its obviously another BIG PHARMA CONSPIRACY VIDEO! FACT, the brain is a chemical juggling act, imbalances cause mental alterations. somethimes the problems are caused by poor diet and other times its a physical problem. either way if cognitive therapy cannot improve a problem then drugs can be used to set the ground to improvement and hopefully the lucky wont need to be reliant on drugs. they are a tool no more and no less. lazy psychiatrists are the problem not the drugs.

  46. Two minutes into this and I realized it was Scientology propaganda. Psychiatric conditions are different in nature than bacterial infections and Scientology exploits these differences to fool people with their Lord Xenu bullshit.

    1. Unfortunately, this documentary is not scientology propaganda, and the field of psychiatry and Big Pharma are the only bodies guilty of exploitation here:


      Robert Whitaker is a former director of publications at Harvard Medical School, and in 1999, an article he co-wrote on psychiatry was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize for Public Service. He is also the author of Mad in America and Anatomy of an Epidemic -- two of the most comprehensive and well-written books examining psychiatric outcomes to date. Please, take the time to read some of my older comments, particularly the one that begins with the following:

      "(Epicurus, please read everything I wrote here. I hope it will change your opinions about my previous statements.) I’m going to start with this because I’m afraid some people won’t take the time to read everything I plan to write: Prozac was introduced in 1987. ADD/ADHD meds really started to hit the scene in the early 1990’s, and it was in the 90’s that most of the atypical anti-psychotics were introduced. Now let’s consider this: In 1987, 1 in every 184 Americans was disabled by mental illness, according to the Supplemental Security Income (SSI) or Social Disability Insurance (SSDI) data associated with mental illness. In 2007, in consideration of the same data, 1 in every 76 Americans was disabled by mental illness; that’s more than double the rate in 1987."


  47. I am a disabled veteran diagnosed with PTSD and Bi Polar disorder. When I was younger I was diagnosed with ADHD. In the last 6 months I have come off all my medication and replaced it with organic food, nutrients and began juicing. Here is what I have learned... First it is the practice of the US medical etablishment to keep us sick and the drug companies are running the show and it is all about money. There has been a cure for cancer since 1928 and a cure for many other serious diseases as well. The human body is amazing at healing itself but in America our bodies are toxic due to the fast food and genetically altered food we consume. I am the type of person that has to "try it myself" before I beleive. I went through a detoxification program (and not the one in the box) I began eating organically and eating what are called superfoods. I also began taking critical vitamins and nutrients. As of this writing I have lost 53 pounds, my mental state is awesome and I am a new man. Through lab tests I have witnessed toxins, heavy metals and the lack of nutrients dispaear and witnessed my body heal as I gave my body what it required. Nature provides ALL that is required to allow our bodies to heal itself. Our bodies are amazing and when the toxins are removed and the body is given the proper foods, nutrients etc. The body heals itself, is unable to get diseased. I am a new man in everyway and I challenge everyone to research and get the toxins out and replace it with what the body requires. Stop pointing fingers, making unfounded arguments and take responsibility for yourself as I did. This is a real duh ha in my book. Toxins bad, proper nutrients good. As far as who made this documentary who cares. is it true? Absolutley. How do I know? I did my own research, found out for myself and took responsibility for myself. Oh by the way I intervied my Psychiatrist, doctors, counselors and when confronted ALL of them hoped people would watch this documentary. All of them admitted (off the record) this was the way the system works, it is at a critical level and a tremendous change needs to occur.

  48. scientology may well support what is in these films but they did not make them or finance them... jumping to conclusions makes
    the accuser an a--hole of assumption.... these facts are true... yet jerkoffs always cry "CONSPIRACY" or propaganda...well let me state to you all here and now, from personal experience of being convinced i was ill ,and being drugged and sectioned by these monsters i can tell you straight that these drugs are the root CAUSE of "psychiatric" problems...and big pharma knows it ...if you havnt tried them then i recommend you do and tell me after a few weeks weather you feel like a prisoner in your own mind and would like to stop your meds... the feelimgs i went through were nothing to be proud of
    inc thoughts of killing my own family ... these cretins ruined my life...and
    the only thing on my mind regarding psychiatry is Vengeance. there is only one cure for these rabid dogs....eternal death.

    p.s. i have an above ave i.q. yet i too fell for it because the doc convinced me of a chemical imbalance and i stupidly and blindly trusted him... now i
    trust no-one who is gov approved, which is probably another disorder to these insects :(

  49. This is Scientology propaganda. look it up.

    1. I wish that were true, but unfortunately it's not. Please, read what I've written below.

      - Jeffrey

  50. One thing that is rarely discussed but research shows that boys learn better when their bodies are in movement. Also schools are taking away recess and research shows with recess and physical activity students are more focused and do better in school. I think it's school that needs overhauled and stop prescribing medicine and diagnosing ADD.

  51. After a couple of minutes of this Doc. I realized it was a propagander film by none other then "The Church Of Scientology".

    1. Very poor grammar, BigB. Also, how did you "realize" that "after [watching] a couple minutes of this Doc?" There's nothing in the first two minutes to suggest such. By the way, I'm in my last semester of a master's program in psychology, and this documentary is dead on. I've been researching what it presents since I first watched it months ago. Get informed.


    2. I wasn't writing a white paper on the subject i****. Who are you one of the wingnuts from Scientology trying discredit anyone that doesn't follow your flawed logic.

    3. How scientology of you. All you have to do is Google " The Marketing of Madness and Scientology".
      I have many more years actually working with people who have these problems, then you do studying psychology.
      I retired from a prison system and worked in the mental health system. Also have suffered with bi-polar for years.
      All I can say is about you is that you wasted your money on an education.
      Note my grandma wasn't poor. LOL

    4. You got me, BigB: I'm a big ol’ scientologist -- A BIG ONE!! Anyway, I'm not a scientologist, and this documentary is actually presented by the Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR), not the church of scientology. Yes, the church of scientology established the CCHR over 40 years ago, but you certainly don’t have to be a scientologist to be involved with the group, and it’s extraordinarily unlikely that everyone in this documentary is one. And even if they are, so what? This documentary is very accurate. (I’m not involved with the CCHR currently, but I plan to be soon: people NEED to be more active in pursuing change with regards to what’s going on here. This is TRULY a tragedy.) I quoted you to make a point, in an implicit manner. Perhaps you didn't get it. So, here it is more explicitly: what you posted suggests that you "realized" this "was a propagander film by none other then 'The Church Of Scientology,'" "after [watching] a couple minutes of this Doc." See what I mean? You couldn't have realized that after simply watching a couple minutes of this documentary for two reasons: (1) there's nothing in the first two minutes to suggest such; and (2), despite being brought to us by the CCHR, which was founded by the church of scientology, it is not a propaganda film; it's a documentary. And again, this documentary is very accurate. I’ve been looking into what it presents because of my investment in the mental health field-- I WORK in the field and am being educated to work in it -- and I was frightened by the prospect of it being accurate, to any degree. What I found out is that this documentary is, once more, very accurate. Please, look into it for yourself. You have worked with people who have problems longer than I have, so did Freud. That doesn't mean you understand them and what they benefit from. For instance, people who work with alcoholics, in majority, think very favorably of programs like Alcoholics Anonymous (AA). Research shows that AA and like programs are pretty darn ineffective, however. Yes, they've worked for some; that doesn’t mean they're the best thing out there though. My education really hasn’t taught me that what this documentary presents is true -- which is scary. It's scary because the majority of people working in the mental health field have had little to nothing in their education to help them come to the conclusions presented in this documentary. I had to look into it for myself. I brought up my education to suggest that I’m intelligent and am familiar with the mental health field, hoping that, perhaps, anybody looking at my post would consider it credible. I want to get the word out that this stuff is true and that it’s happening. I’m glad you shared that about you having been diagnosed with Bipolar. You, as well as everyone else who has been diagnosed with some temporally relevant, behaviorally descriptive, contrived mental disorder, ought to be upset. Ever taken meds? The stuff isn’t good for you. I especially hope you haven’t taken atypical anti-psychotics; they shrink/destroy brain tissue, something that’s well documented, but that you’ll never hear when they’re being prescribed to you. If you’d be willing to post your e-mail address, I’ll e-mail you some good, credible information. And sorry for the rudeness and seeming arrogance. I just wanted to get your attention. ;)

    5. It doesn’t take me long to write. Anyway, I’m not a wingnut from Scientology trying to discredit anyone that doesn’t follow my flawed logic. My logic, by the way, is not flawed. The reasons for that are because there is no evidence supporting the notion of a biological foundation for any DSM-IV disorder (which is admitted in the dumb book: "The DSM-IV criteria remain a consensus without clear empirical data...the behavioral characteristics specified in DSM-IV…remain subjective...”), and tons of credible reports have come out, questioning the supposed benefits of psych-drugs, while citing legitimately conducted research to help do so. There is a lot of bad data out there that is the result of flawed and corrupt research conducted by individuals with FINANCIAL TIES to the companies who make the drugs they “test.” My thing is this: people are being lied to -- they are, no doubt about it -- and the nature of the lie is causing people to take drugs that are bad for their health, very bad. I’ve seen kids put on medications that have made them a heck of a lot worse than they were before they were on the things. Nobody questions it though, because “they have a disorder, and the drugs are proven to help.” It infuriates me. The atypical anti-psychotics and amphetamines cause freakin’ brain damage, and not just in some people: in everyone! How can that be good for people?? Quite simply, it can’t be. Individuals diagnosed with schizophrenia in third world countries illustrate far better outcomes than those in the United States. One might wonder how that could be considering that individuals in this country are privy to the “wonderful” advancements in the treatment of schizophrenia that psychiatry/the pharmaceutical industry have developed (i.e. atypical anti-psychotics), and individuals in third world countries aren’t. Wonder no longer: it’s the drugs, making crap worse. Ritalin, by the way, works in the exact same manner as cocaine! And the SSRIs (anti-depressants) make you TWICE as likely to kill yourself! The pharmaceutical industry makes a TON of money off of these drugs, and without the prescription of psych-drugs, psychiatrists wouldn’t have jobs. There are innocent psychiatrists -- who simply got into the wrong profession -- prescribing medication because they’ve been influenced by bogus data, contrived by “researchers,” again, with FINANCIAL TIES to the companies who make the drugs they conduct “research” on. There are also not so innocent psychiatrists. Altogether, this is a very serious problem, and very few people are aware of it.

  52. I am 3 minutes into this thing, and am already giving up. Why are they showing blank sheets with question marks on it, instead of actual fMRI brain scans of depressed vs normal patients, and then that of those who are medicated. I do believe that these drugs are massively overperscribed, and improperly used by those actually hoping to recover from illnesses such as major depression; however, I can't watch a documentary that immediately throws out bullshit and non-information instead of the actual facts.

    1. Hey Chris my advice is to watch the whole thing and then make a judgment, I agree with your ? pages comment- but there is a massive amount of info that you will be able to see for what it isa

  53. besides marketing and bribery the reason why this market is so successful, is because the DRUGS actually WORK, as they do exactly as they say they will. feel depressed well if you boost the serotonin and dopomine levels, then you wont feel depressed, duh? really most of this shit is quite simple. find an undesirable feeling and then find a drug that either takes that feeling away or produces the opposite effect. for example, i can say i experience too much fear in my daily life, so if i can find something that makes me confident or no longer feel fear then i'm certainly going to take it, duh.
    now just because drugs work does not necessarily mean that we need them, and that does not mean that drug companies want us to take their drug. just like the fast food industry wants you to eat fast food, mcdonald's wants you to eat there. I actually just got a great example, coffee. Now, many people insist that coffee helps them get through their day, and without it they could not achieve what they can with it. BUT coffee makers aren't in the BUSINESS of making your day easier, they are in the business to make money. drug companies are an industry and their main objective is to make money, just like every single other god damn business. anyone who really believes that these corporations are trying to help us is either brain dead or just plain ignorant

    1. Hey Matt, I agree with most of your comment but drug companies DO want us to take their drugs and under false pretenses at least

  54. naic one.....

  55. Daftest documentary ever. This is propaganda.

  56. I do agree that pharmaceutical companies are only out to make money, but to try & say that psychiatrists are not real doctors who try to cure non-existent disorders is very dangerous. I can assure you that the symptoms that I have suffered from for the past fifteen years are very real & to say that there is no scientific evidence to back it up is just BS. I also agree that the drugs are sometimes over-prescribed & sometimes wrongly prescribed, but it does not mean that they don't work & help people.

    1. gary, i've been diagnosed with bipolar and then later with ocd. i KNOW the symptoms i've experienced are real, however it is true and i've known for at least 11 yrs there is NO SCIENCE or tests or anything to prove there is some kind of biological malfunction going on. Any dr or psychiatrist that is being honest with you will tell you that.

      The truth is there's a lot that western medicine does not understand....Psychiatry in essence has created lists of symptoms that people experience and group them together under certain names.

      That does provide freedom for an individual to "unlabel" themselves and find another, healthier, way to address their issues.

      That being said, i've gotten on and off medicines for years, even knowing this info. AFter watching this medicine i'm more convinced that working with my naturopath to get off my ocd medicine selexa is the right choice.

      I've recently discovered some underlying physical issues like a mono flare that are finally being addressed, because i never knew i had mono. When i went to the ER because my throat felt like i had acid thrown down it, the er dr's rolled their eyes and told me i was fine. If they wouldv'e listened to me and actually run tests, i would have known i had mono years ago.

      anyways no system is perfect but psychiatry is a total lie.

  57. brought to you by the church of scientology. it really shouldn't surprise anyone that there are many who seek to delegitimize mental illness. At this juncture, the evidence which exists isn't easily understood by those who are used to thinking in black and white. if you haven't had to cope with a chronic, debilitating psychiatric disorder then it is very easy to dismiss. in your experience things like sadness and euphoria are natural reactions to life events. you have a conception of what these things are, and thus assume that it is the same for everyone else with varying degrees of intensity.

    you don't know what it's like to open your eyes in the morning and have to muster every ounce of energy just to put your feet on the floor. you've never walked down a crowded street feeling so empty and alone that you wish you could simply disappear. you haven't sat waiting for a train and contemplated throwing yourself down on the tracks.

    you don't know what it is to have an electrical current coursing through you that keeps you awake for days at a time. to have thought after thought racing through your mind to the point that your thinking turns into white noise. to talk constantly, barely pausing to breathe, to anyone who will listen or if not then to yourself. to feel as if any dangerous situation you put yourself in is a necessary experience you cannot do without.

    perhaps to a certain extent you can relate to some of this. what you cannot relate to is these things happening for no identifiable reason whatsoever. that is what makes mental illness real. obviously we all have problems that evoke difficult emotions, but people who struggle with these disorders are forced to deal with this pain no matter what is going on in their life.

    I write this as someone who has bipolar disorder. I have lived without medication, and nearly died because of it. I have had problems with medication because it is certainly not an exact science. One pill gave me cardiac symptoms. Another made me pass out randomly. Perhaps you find me strange for continuing with meds after that, but in the end it is absolutely worth it. Now I am on the right cocktail and have never been so at peace. I am not zombified, nor am I ridiculously happy. My head is clear, I can think and feel and make the most of my life. If you want to judge me or anyone else for that, fine. That's your prerogative. At the end of my life, I'm not gonna get a ******* medal for suffering needlessly. If it makes you feel special to reject this type of help, then by all means go for it. Myself and everyone else who's been successfully treated will be busy being content.

    1. I am so glad for you that you have found the right mix of medication. I feel so much for the suffering of patients with disorders such as yours. Bless you.

    2. xxspectator,

      i suggest that you pay attention to the end of the movie where all the people were suggesting that there may be an underlying physical issue that is going on.

      I was diagnosed at 20 with bipolar. 8 years later i was labelled "misdiagnosed" as ocd. I;ve been on many medicines and had very difficult times when i thought i was losing my mind and i have suffered your pain also. (In working with my naturopath i'm working on creating balance and a healthier living environment in my body. I believe it is things like eating junk food and not organic food, eating meat and not vegetarian, influences of toxins put in our bodies from the extremely toxic environments, etc) that are effecting the modern body.

      I don't care who made this movie, church of scientology or not, in my opinion they voiced research i had done over the years and it is very accurate. i believe that these medicines are not healthy and there are healthier ways.

      Research has proven 1 hour of exercise daily is more effective than antidepressants.
      Research has proven upping omega oils and eating fish 3 times per week is more effective than antidepressants


  58. Are the psychopaths controlling mental health treatments for the healthy? Yes, but is poor mental health a myth? No. We have to stop thinking there is a pill that is appropriate for everything in life and design real interventions that work.

  59. Did the feelings and emotions cause the chemical imbalance in the brain that is photographed? There is more proof today than ever that our emotions control our physical body and are the true cause. Ask any doctor what causes hyper tension, high blood pressure, high cholesterol and heart disease. Most doctors will ask you if your under a lot of stress. Stress is ALL and inside job. Pills can help in the short term only, they are Not the answer. People dont have diabetes because they are deficient in insulin. Diabetes is one "disease" that most people agree can be cured by getting your behind off the couch and learning to eat whole foods. The AMA & APA have it TOTALLY wrong and are starting to come around. I know hundreds of MD's & PhD's that are now using techniques that actually work and dont cause more side effects that require more drugs. These newer alternative techniques work and are yet to be main stream so they are frowned upon, mostly because they threaten the trillion dollar pharma pie. People are waking up and want successful treatments without side effects. It's shocking to actually read some of these clinical studies and what the AMA and big pharama call successful results. It's actually insane. Can we put them on meds? Or maybe thats the problem is they are on too many already ;)

  60. Kay Redfield Jamison (and others) have helped prove that bipolar disorder can be seen with pictures of the brain in comparison with people without bipolar disorder. There is also proof of the benefit of medications seen through changes in behavior. When a patient is suicidal and hallucinating daily, then given risperidal and seroquel (for example), and stops having continuous hallucinations and suicide attempts, than it is clear that medications are beneficial. Scientology does not believe in medications, so it is likely that this video has been created by scientologists. Although, it is true that pharmacology is very much a business. Yet I cannot say that the doctors who prescribe the medications are businessmen.

    1. I'm at the border between believing both sides of the spectrum. I had been diagnosed with ADD back when I was a teen years ago, and it was with the dumbest test ever. I refused to be medicated....I stick to the idea, the reason why I did poorly at school and couldn't concentrate on the subjects were because I was simply stubborn and didn't give a F#^%. When you love something, you learn it, and you learn it well.
      I have been depressed in the past, but the number one reason for that, is that my life situation was horrible. when I changed things around, things are awesome now. I do think that it is possible of a chemical imbalance, a hormonal imbalance as well. But I do agree that the tragic thing about the process of diagnosing a patient is made just too easy. It's hard to believe drug companies when they have an agenda...and most psychiatrists I know personally are very strange people too as you get to know them

  61. i feel very smart..
    the only narcotic i have taken so far is weed :D


    1. Usually that selective affinity focusing is a simple repetitive task set like video gaming or music. That is a feature of attention deficit disorder which is analogous to a faulty radio tuner which has difficulty dialing in through routine reality scanning but can stay on one station just fine. I hope I explained my understanding adequately.

  63. Wow, what a piece of ****. No measurable imbalance? Just do a pubmed search, you'll find that neurotransmitters can be measured and actually have been and yes there are dysfunctions within the various systems. Need further proof? Just look at brain-scans of people with bipolar/major depression, there are clear differences within the subject when his ill and in remission and between people who are ill and those who are not. Yeah, but you actually need half a brain and more interest then the lack of a subject to be outraged by can bring to do that. Hey, if you think the pharma-psychiatry industrial complex is so bad, do your bit...take a severely bipolar patient or a raging schizophrenic off their meds and live with them for a year nursing them back to health...:)))) pics for our amusement.

    1. You make a great point of the comparison between someone who is on meds and who has been taken off their meds. Daniel Johnston is a perfect example of such risks.

    2. Usually it's the people who resort to name calling that are the biggest dolts. First of all, isn't "pubmed" just publishing the biased studies the documentary talks about? Second, the difference in a brain scan could be an effect of mental illness not the cause. In other words, if I get very sad over a series of tragedies, I may get depressed. This may correlate with certain brain patterns. But this doesn't mean it is a cause, but rather an effect. Cure the depression and the brain chemistry will follow, not the other way around. Also, this documentary is not focusing as much on "raging" schizophrenics as on the general public. But since you bring it up, schizophrenics in third world countries who are kept in their communities and given love and respect (no medicine, no institution), as in India and parts of Africa, do better clinically than those with schizophrenia in the developed West who are put on psychotropic drugs. So you see, it does start to take the shape of a scam.

  64. wow

  65. Ha. I laugh.

  66. Um gee, "take them all of the meds and see what happens". Once the chemicals HAVE flushed out of the system they'll be back to square one -- a person with a disorder that needs attention. That disorder may, or may not have been treated and maintained by medication. That's what'll happen. Sorry, but that's a VERY silly thing to suggest. Just because YOUR experience with meds was a negative one, does not mean everyone else will experience things the same way you did. Not everyone is an alcoholic, yet some people can drink 6 beers and not pick up another for 2 years, while other people might not be able to stop at all (without a lot of hard work). "Science is science"? Really? Because any two scientists may conduct experiments and come to different conclusions. So don't wave science around as an absolute. Up until VERY recently, scientists believed the appendix served no function. Things change with understanding.

  67. This film/"documentary" is typical of today's media -- completely one-sided and unbalanced. This is VERY obviously the handywork of the Scientology cult. It's use of terms like "fact" when dealing with scientific issues that are not quantifiable is a blatant giveaway to their blustering ways. You SHOULD about who the source of this information is, because it is biased and filled with untruths.

    YES, there are MANY nightmare stories of people who took a prescription of a med that didn't work for them, but there are FAR more stories of happy/healthy people whose meds DID work for them. Further, it often takes many tries with different meds to find one that works for an individual. None of us are exactly the same, nor do we all have the same chemical makeup.

    I'm somebody who tried an experimental medication in a drug trial that caused me complete amnesia to the point where I didn't even recognize my face in the mirror. I have subsquently gained back about 40% of my memory, but a huge part of my life is still missing. if anyone should have a "right" to be bitter about medications, I feel I am well qualified. Do I blame the pharmacudical company that made that drug? No. I blame the physician who misdiagnosed me for "depression" when in fact I was suffering from a severe form of ADHD. A few years later another physician (who actually knew what he was doing) diagnosed me with ADHD and sent me for a series of tests to confirm his diagnosis. YES, there ARE quantifiable tests that CAN help to determin if someone has ADHD or ADD, unlike the complete lies this so-called "documentary" proclaims as "FACT!". Ritalin, for me, has been a complete life saver. Without it, the quality of my life was so bad that I had no job, no friends, and no family (all alienated by my ADHD-altered personality).

    So those of you who have horror stories try to remember that just because something didn't work for you, or someone you know, DOESN'T mean that thing is somehow a bad thing. The cultists that created this film are spreading their "beliefs" by peppering their lies with tiny kernels of truth. The age of the internet in every home SHOULD be openning minds up, NOT closing them off. Don't buy something until you've researched it. Read testimonials, both good AND bad. These "facts" they present are very easily searched out on a search engine. Bear that in mind when viewing this piece of propoganda and don't take the word of some brain-washed deep voice narating this thing. I give it two thumbs WAY down.

  68. This is the best doc. I have ever seen. The only reason any of you out there have any problems with it is because you are on meds. and at this point are unable to think clearly. It's sad that the meds. have you so blind. Cant we as people stop leaning on crutches and start dealing with the fact that life does suck and is not easy. Death comes and becuase we as a human race are so selfish divorce comes too. Get over it and embrace being awake.

    1. THAT is a pathetic attack on the weaknesses of others buddy. You should be ashamed. It's akin to telling a person in a wheelchair "the only reason you're in a wheelchair is because you can't walk. Some people DO need meds, and YOU have NO right to go around belittling them because you don't believe in their medications. Disgusting. YOU are the one who is "blind" with your own ignorance. Selfish in your lack of willingness to see another person's point of view. "Get over" your biggoted views.

    2. Again a person in a wheelchair would have some proof that they need help. Medical proof. There is none. I could walk into a Doctors office right now say that I can't sit still have a hard time focusing and BAM! I am on adderall a drug that is known to give people who don't really need it energy. Or young women who don't really need it weight loss. A drug that almost killed my 2 year old. You must be on meds and are too far gone my friend. I feel for you. There will come a time where people won't think they need meds to live and they will find peace from the voices and sadness. I can not wait for this day.

    3. I absolutely love your's staggering how a lot of people who've commented on this thread still, even after watching this documentary, see psychotropic drugs as MUST be one of the withdrawal side effects they're experiencing!

    4. I do not love his comment. It accuses people he disagrees with of being unable to think clearly and rationally or having reasons other than what he supposes to do what they do, and that is a poor way to enter into any discussion.

    5. Norman, to echo the post below you (also perhaps the one below that one :) and perhaps straighten your stagger if possible,

      lol! before continuing my writing I just read the post from the guy you are replying to, Awake42e, -sancta simplicitas!, If you like that post I don't think mine will do anything for your stagger but I'll post it anyway.

      actually what do I really need to say? I will not even post this as a reply to Norman, Ill just post it as a general comment Actually I changed my mind, I will reply to Awake42e. I will leave my above ramblings as proof of a muddled mind to make him/her feel smart.

      Oh now I see your post is a year old Awake42e. Wow must really be crazy or messed up, I don't think it is a fact that life sucks.

      Get over it you say?

      get over what? Schizophrenia? ADHD? Autism? you dont know me.

      Oh I guess they made up autism as a clever trick, it went something like this. "If we have a cure for every one of these mental diseases we make up it may get too obvious that it is all a scam. Lets make up one and not make up a drug for it. It will be a mix of people who can't talk and others who are super smart in a spockish way.

      Ya that will do it

    6. Wow, you poor thing. You must be truly sick, and in a not so invisible way. My problem is not with those who are truly sick. Who can deny Schizophrenia? I mean come on some of these conditions are real. My problem is with the way the meds are handed out to those who just choose not to deal with this life and the unhappiness within it. Those who are just looking to escape. Like I said before anyone could go into a doc's office and fake these types of conditions to get different meds. No one could prove they are lying, and no one wants to. I guess I must be specific and state that there are some things you can't fake *granted*. I just figured everyone out there knew that.

  69. Okay, it's no surprise that if you go to a psychiatrist that they will most likely be diagnosed with some sort of disorder and prescribed a medication. WHY is it not a surprise? Because psychiatrist a doctors (people who went to med school and the specialized in how drugs effect the body). Additionally, in order to be reimbursed by your insurance company, they have to have some sort of diagnosis to substantiate the bill.

    If you are struggling with a problem (depression, ocd, anxiety), you should first ask yourself this: Is this acute? Is it hindering my everyday life? Acute depression (generally from death, divorce, ect) is EXPECTED and should only last 6 months or less. If it last longer, then you should seek help. If your acute depression is hard to deal with within the six months, go see a PSYCHOLOGIST not a psychiatrist. A psychologist does NOT prescribe medications and focuses on helping you through the problem. It's not that you're paying money just to talk, cognitive-behavioral therapist help you to modify your behavior and your perspective. Sounds easy? Sounds like you can do that on your own? Not always true. Regardless, a lot of problems that we have out there don't need to be treated with a drug. Additionally, just because you have OCD or anxiety, doesn't mean that you have a disorder. In order for it to be a disorder it has to directly be maladaptive to your lifestyle. If you have anxiety, but it doesn't stop you from being with your family, working, going out ect, then it is not a DISORDER. That's not to say that you don't have it, that's just saying that it is not something that necessarily needs to be treated.

    I get where this documentary is going, but a little annoyed that it doesn't broaden it's scope. I also don't think that it's all psychiatry's fault or even half of their fault. If you were to look at WHO is prescribing these drugs, you would find that more often than not it's by the PCP (Primary Care Physician). Secondly, just because the doctor prescribes you something, doesn't mean you have to go and get it filled like some kind of brainless lemming. A lot of people like taking pills, they think it's a instantsolvemyproblems in a little tablet. Do your research before you take something, don't self diagnose, and if you don't want to take a psych med but feel like you need help - see a psychologist.

  70. Who cares if it is or is not Scientology. You are confusing the message with the messenger.

    1. One SHOULD care who the messenger is, if the messenger has a particular bias. Would you accept a "study" that "proves" that women are bad drivers if you knew it was funded and put together by a group that believes women shouldn't drive? Or some racist "facts" if you knew it was funded by the KKK? Well, Scientology is a cult that has VERY strong hatred for Psychiatry (probably because any good Psychiatrist would tell their patient Scientology is a cult). Scientology regularly uses brainwashing techniques as well as classic misdirection of information, something any trained eye would recognize if they saw someone vulnerable falling for their diatribe. "What does it matter if this says Coke is bad for you? So what if it's made by Pepsi?" See where I'm going here?

    2. What about the messengers prescribing the drugs?

  71. Coffinbound - I think that's how it should be. Medication shouldn't be the answer to every problem, but it works for some people. I'm glad that you've found something that works for you (and that you don't have to pay all those medical bills, haha).

    I'm bipolar too. Been through more doctors in just the past couple years than I can count on both hands. In and out of the "loony bin" a few times. Can't even remember how many drugs. Some of them helped at the time. Most of them didn't. Gained weight, lost weight, lost hair, migraines, dizziness, vision problems, stuttering. Tried to kill myself while on Lexapro. Walked to work every day looking like a drunk or something because I couldn't walk straight. The worst part was the general... mindlessness of it all. Most of the medications just made me really stupid all the time. I could barely even string together an interesting sentence. All but one of those doctors wrote me a prescription for something within the first two sessions. Oftentimes it was the first session. Each time I went to the psych ward, I wasn't allowed to leave unless I was on medication. ("Gee, lamictal is going to make a bunch of my hair fall out and give me godsplitting headaches... but I have to get back to my job. Crap.")

    Eventually I had to ask myself if the medication was really worth it and decided to stop - at least for a while. I need to know what it's like to be myself again. Can't stumble through life like some sort of clockwork orange. I like myself without meds, it's the rest of these sheep that seem to have a problem with the way I do things. But I'm willing to work harder to keep my life on track just so that I don't have to put that shit in my body every day. "Because it's the ones with the sorest throats who've done the most singing."

    Anyway, I do think that medication helps some people, but I also think that people in America are WAY too medication-happy. Diagnosis-happy, for that matter. My younger sister is one of the most normal teenagers I've ever known and some quack with a clip board labeled her as ADD and gave her adderall because she would rather hang out with her friends than do her homework. Anyone else confused by that?

    Despite the fact that this documentary is coming from an EXTREMELY biased standpoint, it still presents a lot of good information that matches up with a lot of my own past research and experiences. Take it with a grain of salt like you would any other documentary. "Thou shalt not believe everything you read". Duh.

    1. Ghost writers have been paid up to £20,000 to promote psychiatric drugs .
      Hmmm .

  72. Sarah 210 - Awesome!! You hit the nail right on the head. I felt like crap after my divorce even though I knew it was the right thing to do. I am damn proud I didn't take the Prozac my goofy doctor prescribed.
    I am not going to lie and say it was easy to work through the emotions and pain of a divorce but I DID IT! And at times I thought I was losing my mind! Looking back now I can't believe I got so worked up about the divorce. At the time I saw it as a personal failure. And maybe it was. Lord knows I tried to work things out.
    We don't arrive on this earth with all the answers but I know one thing if you sit around all day and feel sorry for your self that's all you'll ever be:sorry.Get out and go to the hospitals and see real pain and suffering, go to the nursing homes and see the pain there, put your life in perspective and then get up off your a** and just do something other then making excuses for yourself.

  73. I have a brother who has schizophrenia and must be on medication. My son was “diagnosed” with ADHD at the age of 9 and I was told he should be on meds. I chose not to do it but rather enrolled him in a smaller school where he did great. He's 21 now and doing fantastic. A friend killed himself at the age of 29. A few months before, his doctor prescribed an antidepressant. I was in severe physical pain and when the doctor got tired of doing blood work that came back normal I was given symbalta. He said I had fibromyalgia. I didn’t take the medication and went to another Dr. One week later I was in the hospital and had cervical spine surgery. I had severe spinal stenosis and my medulla was being pressed.

    One word…. BALANCE! Sometimes we need meds but mostly WE DONT’T.

  74. I have a brother who has schizophrenia and must be on medication. My son was "diagnosed" with ADHD at the age of 9 and I was told he should be on meds. I chose not to do it but rather enrolled him in a smaller school where he did great. He;s 21 now and dong fantastic. A friend killed himself at the age of 29. A few months before, his doctor prescribed an antidepressant. I was in severe physical pain and when the doctor got tired of doing blood work that came back normal I was given symbalta. He said I ha has fibromyalgiad. I didn't take the medication and went to another Dr. One week after I was in the hospital and ha cervical spine surgery. I had severe spinal stenosis and my medulla was being pressed.

    One word.... BALANCE! Someetimes we need meds but mostly WE DONT'T.

  75. I'm not entirely sure what to make of this whole documentary, or of the comments regarding it, but I have to say that the pharmaceutical industry doesn't run from volunteers. We all know that it's a huge industry, and it generates more money than any of us would know what to do with...
    Regardless of which Joe Blow funded this documentary, and how shady their roots might be, it is up to us to be critical thinkers and to scrutinize the information that comes into our brains. This documentary does bring up a few interesting points regardless of the motive: That people every day are being branded, generalized by their habits as having something wrong with them, which may or may not be the case. The bringing up of homosexuality near the beginning as being a mental disorder but being taken out is actually a pretty good example of how behaviors are being generalized and categorized into treatable problems.

    This documentary actually, despite the possibilities that it could be tied to Scientology, which is in my experience BS, brings up good points about how these new mental problems coming to our attention could potentially be a cause for inappropriate sentencing for people who commit crimes. For example a few years back, in Canada we had the greyhound incident where a man murdered a young kid on the bus after sitting in a seat next to him for hours during a trip, and by witness accounts ate his flesh. It was considered a mental break down, and per chance it may have been, but there is always the chance that this murderer suddenly decided to do something that he has always wanted to do: kill another person. It's pretty easy to get the insanity plea down when you do something compulsively, especially if you're willing to go the extra step and try a taste.

    Anyways, all I am trying to say is that the information contained in this documentary has to be put into perspective and at minimum considered for the actual points it puts across: That mental illness seems to be an epidemic in the world today, and that there are a lot of people being treated for it, when they actually could just be the little problems and anxieties that we all have to face on a daily basis.

    Looking forward to much more discussion on this.

  76. So much misinformation is all around us.
    It calls us to go back to the nature of our fathers.
    To the medicine of the nature.
    We do not know what those doctors are messing for us.

  77. "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti

  78. Foucalt's Madness and Civilization tackled this problem too. Good companion for studying with this documentary.

  79. Those who turn to psychotropic drugs for a better life, are looking for a quick fix for problems they don't wanna face, for what ever reason. I have been guilty of this for 14 years, no more. I feel mentally stifled, not me. I wanna be me again. You should too.

  80. Why is it Scientology is all bad? Sure they are awful, now. The roots of it aren't all bad. But, I am not a practitioner of any religion or pseudo religion for that matter. But science is science. The docs are right, you CAN NOT test for depression, bi-polar. I have been dealing with therapists for over 14 years. Most of all my worst problems have ALL occurred when on the laundry list of crap I have taken. I personally will be slowly weaning myself off of all my drugs. Since I started exercising and drinking waay less, I have marked improvements in my health.

    Humans DON'T need these drugs to function, we need to better evaluate our lives and better understand what is making us feel the way we do and find non chemical ways to deal/ cope with life. Life is tough, we are bombarded with so much info we are all on tilt, some deal better than others.

    For al you who dismiss this based on your idea that it stems from Scientology, so what? The info is still pertinent. Someone said "take them al off their meds and see what happens", of course people will go off the deep end. these drugs need to slowly removed from our chemistry so as to not create a massive disruption on our brain.

  81. There's nothing new in this. Real doctors, who dedicate their lives to studying and treating real diseases, have always considered psychiatrists as quacks. It's like the janitor in a hospital trying to treat patients.

  82. I'm not really interested in the opinion of the Church of Scientology which I'm pretty sure who made this doc, or some subsidiary of it did.

  83. "Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."
    ~ Benito Mussolini

  84. All you people that think you've been "helped"? Nothing is wrong with you! Everyone has things that they're going through. That's life. You gotta deal with it! No one is supposed to be happy EVERY MINUTE OF YOUR FUCKING LIFE! People can be sad and 'depressed' for years. That just means something is wrong in their life, not some chemical imbalance.

  85. hi anybody has the pdf file for this movie? i think it has one but i cant find it in web!

  86. @olu; ;) Any time.

  87. @Reasons Voice. Thank you!

  88. Guess everyone already said this but I got so sad and annoyed so I just had to say something.

    I have Bipolar disorder and my meds have helped me alot. I have to eat my meds all my life because it's a chronicle sickness. And yes, it is a sickness.
    I don't like when they just throw drugs at people, but some acctually need it. I had to see my psychiatrist for 1 year before he gave me my first ssri-meds.

    Anyway, this is from America and I'm from Sweden. We have better health care, and pills is the last thing they'll try. And we get therapy for free as long as we live. I'm so f@#$%^& glad I don't need to pay any hospital bills, I've been in and out the "mad house" so many times I would be broke, and I would probably be dead.

    Hahahahaha oh I can't stop laughing about what they're saying! xD


  89. Was this made in Clearwater, FL?

  90. @ Randy
    What have you written Randy? Where can i read it? Because i would, if i could.

  91. What this os all about is the power of "The System", best described in the movie "The Matrix". The system is holding you in place through money, religion, expectational pressure and even pharmaceutics. Dumbing you down to be a brick in the wall, a taxpaying, product buying sheep, who is nothing more than a Duracel battery, driving the "The System".

  92. Steve is right.

  93. Related to the irresponsible giving out of drugs by mental health professionals is the irresponsible taking of those drugs by mental health patients. They often skip days, take more than prescribed, or less than prescribed, sometimes taking more to get added "benefit". It's not candy, folks.

  94. Like Paine, I've seen the abuses of psychiatry, more specifically I've endured the abuses of psychiatry. I don't give a s@#$ about an alien cult and their agenda.

    There is no proof any of the psychiatric diseases are real. They were all voted into existence by the APA by a show of hands. There is no way of identifying any specific disease in any specific brain.

    My brain has been destroyed by psychiatric torture, against my will, committed upon me as a legal minor who lacked the right to refuse consent. Psychiatry is brain death

  95. Interesting, there is nothing about Scientology in this movie but people call it propaganda. I am not a Scientologist, nor do I have any particular sympathies toward them. But I have seen the abuses of psychiatry and I feel that this documentary has much merit.
    I encourage people to take the work and judge it by their own observations and experience. Don't kill the messenger and don't judge a book by the looks of the guy that handed it to you.

  96. If the documentary isn't convincing enough, read the comments. hahahahahah

  97. On a less personal more analytical note:
    1) I believe psychiatric medications are over prescribed, but it is often GPs (at least in Australia) presribing them.
    2) Many have quite serious side effects and can be addictive. Patients may not be warned of this.
    3) Psychiatry and the DSM diagnostic criteria need to improve. In many ways the diagnositic criteria are excessive, or inaccurate.

    Problems with the Doc:
    1) it does not point out that to be diagnosed for a psych disorder the symptoms must cause significant distress, impair functioning and often be ongoing for a long period of time. So been sad for a month because you had a relationship breakup is not depression.
    2) It does not point out the incedible benefits many people have due to psychiatric drugs. These drugs would of saved many many lives (prevented suicide), not to mention improve quality of life.
    3) psychiatry and psychology are a science. diagnostic criteria, the causes of mental illness, and the neurology are constantly being researched. And by independent bodies like universities. I wrote a thesis on schizophrenia, and let me tell you there is more research on the subject than I could ever read.

    4) Observing pathology in the brain is difficult because you cannot open someones head up and analyse tissue (you can take samples for bioposies for things like breast cancer, or bacterial infections). For mental illness changes that are happening on such a small neurochemical level we do not yet have the technology to create diagnostic tests. We have only recently had technology such as MRI, so the neurology of mental illness is still in its infancy. however huge advances are occuring, possibly quicker than in any other form of medicine.

    I could write more but its late. On the whole this documentary takes a very one sided and inaccurate look at psychiatry and mental illness.

  98. A proper response to this 'documentary' is beyond the scope of the comments page. However, I have studied psychology (2 degrees) plus suffer from mental illness (anxiety and depression). I also have began taking SSRIs (zoloft).

    First let me say, there is being a bit depressed or sad, and then there is clinical depression. Everyone gets depressed or sad, its part of life and it goes away with time. Clinical depression is much worse. When your having a 'good' day you just feel emotionally dead, you have no joy, and you care about nothing. When it is bad it feels like you are drowning in self loathing, and been crushed by sadness. You hardly have the energy to get out of bed to eat or to do laundry. You fantasize about killing yourself (and many people with depression do).

    After starting taking zoloft I felt as though I had awoken for a bad dream. When it began to first work I walked outside and it was sunny. I felt happy to see the sun. I had actually forgotten what it was like to feel the emotion of joy and happiness, to feel the great complexity of the emotion. Even saddness now doesn't feel crushing and hopeless, but rather bitter sweet and transient.

    I did not take the decision to take SSRIs lightly. Through my studies I was well aware of the side effects. Fortunately, I just have a bit more difficulty sleeping. I was surprised that it actually improved my sex life (SSRIs can sometimes mess that up). I can also actually feel love for my girlfriend now. before that I only knew I loved her, I never felt it.

    So far psychiatric medication has greatly enriched my life.

  99. I remember watching some girl on youtube , complaining how s@#$$% life she has, because she had many many... many disorders, she even show to the camera all her meds she was taking including some pills for dyscalculia, lol the so called professionals suck her money.

    I sincerely don't care if this video is produced by Scientology, i don't have idea of joining them or anything XD but who else could have the balls to make such docu, normal TV sure couldn't.

  100. Reasons Voice, I give up. The obvious is not obvious to you. Just so you know I am an American citizen not getting a fat pension and that is why I am working. I am ending my part in this rather endless conversation.

  101. @Anthony; Thank you, You are correct the unions have failed.

  102. @Lori; It's realy not worth my time to argue symantics with you. The facts are there for any to see. As to your source siting fetish I will say this; since all posts with any cut and past or URL included have to be moderated I seldom include either. I like Vlatko and he works hard I will not make him search through the log to post all of my comments as moderator simply to feed your whims. And while you may not be protecting tenure you probably are enjoying a fat pension.

  103. Wow Lori, you know enough about me from a couple of post to both know me and my ethics. Your seemingly repeated reference to the Tea Party makes me think you're a main stream media junkie and are unable to think for yourself or have a clue. Now, having said that, I've read far to many of your post here, to not be able to come to that conclusion. You seem to be a holier-than-thou elitist, most likely a Democrat and certainly condescending.

    You're the one talking about ethics here (elitist). I asked you for the source that says "if you post on a public forum, you have to provide a source." We're not reporters/journalist. If you want to hold people to a higher standard, set by you, prepare to be sadly disappointed. Reasons Voice hasn't libeled anyone (nor any group). What he said about unions, in general, is true. And, is specifically true for the teachers union. Just because you claim to be a teacher, perhaps guilt has over-taken your soul. Put your big girl panties on and either deal with it... or ignore it.

    If you are a US Citizen, your jumping on the band-wagon to bash anyone resembling a Tea Party supporter, is only playing into TPTB hand. While you don't have to be a supporter of the Tea Party movement to want what's best for the US, that is what caused it to gain momentum. There isn't just a "few" politicians in DC that are at the core root of the problem but an overwhelming majority of them. If you're congressman voted for tarp part 1&2, they're a problem. If they push though pork barrel spending, they're a problem. If they voted for a mountain of legislation called health care, they're a problem. If they take campaign contributions from Corporations (namely multi-nationals), they're a problem. If they have an open door policy with lobbyist, they're a problem. If YOU can't see that, YOU'RE a problem. If you constantly get your news information from multi-national corporations, again, you're a problem.

    I bet your last name is Pelosi! :P

  104. Anthony, your rules of ethics is what runs in the US under the so-called Tea Party. According to some running for office you can claim whatever degree from whatever university or claim your opponent has affairs but not put up the proof. Now, you say I should put the source of my ethics that state that before using a public forum one should have sources before libeling a group or individual? Even if you went to high school you should have learned there or earlier.

  105. @ Lori, You didn't bust Reasons Voice on nuttin. He spake the truth about the Teachers Union and evidence abounds if you care to look into it. As for "having" to post a source, just because you post something on a public forum, that's as much BS as you are. Is that some rule you came up with? If not, please provide your source missy! Me thinks you just took offense since you "claim" to be a teacher. How about a source proving you were a teacher? I-D-10-T error abounds in your half-baked rules of engagement.

    Like Reasons Voice, I concur that when unions first began they were a good thing. Now, not so much.

  106. Reasons Voice, as so many of you in your camp you missed the whole point. When you put things down in a public forum put your sources down. It is as simple as that. As for me, I am a retired teacher so do not have a tenure to protect. You made statements without any proof just to slam the union. You got busted. End of story, at least your fictitious story.

  107. Lori; Save it. I provided sources for the first part. As to the judgement on the Unions, Those were absolute facts. Feel free to look up the rubber rooms, the tenure status etc. You want to paint me as having a slant to my resoning when you are a "teacher" haha. protect your tenure and teach the kids nothing. pathetic.

  108. The fact that the film is made my scientology-related advocacy group doesn't yet make it propaganda. Please debunk at least one statement from the film to make your comment actually worth while.

  109. Reasons Voice, I am a responsible teacher and journalist so to extend the logic I don't publish or post unless I have the facts and sources in front of me. You might want to keep that in mind before you put those so-called facts down that go all over the world.

    There is a new framework of ethics that is being used by a certain group of people running for office in the States. They don't let those pesky things called facts mess up their arguments. I am not saying you are in their camp but if the shoe fits, Cinderella, wear it. What I am saying is I don't accept that ethical point of view. If you want to put source-less stuff in your journal, go ahead but think twice when it is in a public forum especially when you libel a group of people such as an union even if your last name is Limbaugh.

  110. @lori; I found sources for you they are in moderation be patient and check back. Have a good day.

  111. Lori; I told you in my last post that it has been a whilesince I read that article. Do you have source material for every piece of information in you head? You seem to be typical pro Union, in that you get all teeth if anyone disparages any union. I clearly stated that Unions have their uses in situations where they prevent exploitation. I made argument agains corrupt institutional unions that do nothing but back alley deals. I bet you would be doubly irked by my saying that the Teachers Unions here in the U.S. are at the least 50% responsible for the poor educational standards. I will give you example though. Tenure is granted after three years of work. Regardless of effectiveness of the teacher they are handed a win for life card. They are all but immune to fireing once tenure is granted. It costs an average of $150,000 in legal fees to fire a tenured teacher. That is even if they show up drunk every day and grumble curses into their coffee while the students learn nothing. If they do get into trouble, they are suspended with pay indefinately. (Note with pay). We have here what is called rubber rooms where teachers collect full salary and benefitts to shuffle paperwork untill reassigned, some teachers with poor records spend years in the "rubber rooms".
    No other job has a garanteed pay check regardless of performance. I could get into the other unions if you would like me to. Unionization of opressed workers is absolutely key to improoving working conditions for some however that is not repeat IS NOT what most modern day unions do.

  112. Reasons Voice, I still noticed that there is no source for your claims. Second, I came here in the early part of 2010, not exactly the Ice Age. The unions are the only thing keeping the working people from being totally exploited by the corporations. Your last name wouldn't be Kohl would it?

  113. And before I get lamb basted for the pre civil war statement that was not pro slavery ya goons.

  114. @Lori; It has been a while since I read the article about the roads so can't recall exact source if I find time I'll look for it. My point, if it was unclear, is that yes the rubberised roads have and continue to hold up. As to "anti union rhetoric" I could indeed give ya some of that but it would all be factual not just made up tripe. I am not anti union per say but anti modern union absolutely. They have become corrupt lobbyist groups where the workers pay endless dues and see their benefits decline as the honchos take golf trips to Aruba. Not sure where you live but Here in the US now the unions help only the union bosses and the workers who want to be assured work while doing little to no work at all. In early days they acted as a safety measure to improove working conditions those times are long gone.
    As to the Tea Bags. If I could return the States to the way they were pre civil war, pre imperialism, I would.

  115. They have "Xenu" some supposed "Galactic Overlord" and a whole science-fiction mythology behind it.

    It's wild, crazy stuff, man... (so are all religions, really!)

  116. This is some Scientology sh*t??? Wow I agree with a lot of this, I thought I was an Atheist. Should I be praying to L Ron or do they have a real god?

  117. By the way if your mother had read a book instead of creating you, you would not have met your wife or gone on that wonderful cruise. She and your father gave you the gift of life. It sounds pretty awesome to me. Your wife might have led an unhappy life never having met you. You have seen the movie, "Its a wonderful Life"? I think the movie has some very good points.

  118. The only ferry I ever went on was the one in the San Diego Bay before the bridge went up. That was fun but very short. It cost a dime one way and a quarter for as many times as you wanted.

  119. Yes, my wife and I took a cruise a few years ago and it was wonderful, (even as I was trepidatious about it at first! LOL).

    We had a beautiful state room with a veranda, (about seven stories above the ocean surface), and I would go out and look at the ocean, especially at night... Magnificent!

    Of course, that is all behind me now, no plane trips or cruises; an infection or fever could kill me... Oh well, good memories!

    Just genetics. I don't know what my mother mated with to produce me, but it would have been much better for me if she had read a book that night!

    Anyways, I know what you mean about the beauty of the ocean... is what I'm sayin'

  120. Randy, it was not as smooth as I thought it would be but very beautiful as the ocean was full of islands(Japanese) and I had my journal out and my drawing pencils. A friend said that when you are on the hydrofoil you don't see how dirty that part of the ocean is. Too bad. I still did get some drawings done though.

    When I get back to the States, I am going to save my money and take a freighter for a nice long cruise as a passenger. As I understand one never knows what will happen so there needs to have some savings as well. It is a lot cheaper than a cruise. I have never wanted to go on a cruise unless it is one of those cruises that have lecturers on it. I was going home that way but it is too cold now. I have not finished my book and still need to edit it.

  121. Well, I am a writer, (although unpublished) and a PhD, (but they are not in money making fields...)

    Could have been a teacher, but I never was because I can't stand young people these days! LOL!

    I have been to some other countries and these were wonderful, eyeopening experiences... but I am certainly NOT what you would consider a "world traveler", alas...


    I have always wanted to travel on a hydrofoil... never got the chance. Very good for you!

  122. Anthony, and your point is....?

  123. blah blah blahhhhh blah blah. I like to see words I write on the interDWEEBS, so I make up random s*** to argue with people and show my own perceived intelligence. I'm a writer, a teacher and a world traveler

  124. Reasons Voice, I wonder how much of your post is simple anti-union rhetoric and how much is truth? Where are your sources? I also was not sure what your post was really saying. Did the recycled tire rubber work? Again, what are your sources? You don't carry old tea bags do you?

  125. Blame the teamsters for the bad roads. And the fact that highways management is the biggest cash scheme in politics. 40 years ago a man demonstrated that by substituting melted down recycled tire rubber for the usual tar it made road surface last much longer. He was given permission to pave one direction of the roadway through one of the big state parks (Yosemetty, Yellow stone?) that lane is still intact 40 years later while the other lane has been redone 5 times and counting. Near permanent roads me less maintenance = fewer contracts = less opportunity for cash to get filtered through sticky fingers.

  126. Well, my post got posted without my permission. Anyhow, it is a hydrofoil which cuts down the time and the only problem is that you always have to wear a seat belt because it has to avoid whales and other such large animal bodies in the water. The trip was astonishingly beautiful.

  127. I went on a ferry by the name of Beetle which takes 2hr and 55 minutes instead of the more common ferry that takes nine hours. It is a hydrofoil

  128. Yes, I just wondered if I had pluralized it properly.

    Of course, in America ferries are sinking all the time. No money to maintain them...

    Along with crumbling bridges, roads, etc...

    So, that's no fun...

  129. The ship itself is called a "Ferry" as in Ferry service etc:
    Well, in Canada anyway (LOL)

  130. tjo,

    Yes, that was what Lori and I were talking about, I thought.

    But, thank you for the confirmation.

  131. "Ferries" are correct if your taking your vehicle(s) across a body of water to an island or two.

  132. @Lori

    I love ferries, (is that spelled correctly?), your trip sounds wonderful.

    I am glad you had a good time!

  133. Randy, I am back and thank you for the good words. Things went better than expected. I loved the ferry best of all. Met some really nice people and all of us doing the same thing getting our VISA renewed.

  134. Great documentary! Conveying how capitalism can affect such issues. For anyone who is interested I recently read a book called ID by Susan Greenfield who touches on this subject amongst other areas.

  135. Really, despite our disagreements, which are meaningless, it is a great priviledge to talk to you.

    Again, I am honored...

  136. @Lori

    Good luck! It sounds fantastic! Be safe...

  137. Well, I don't think it is imaginary but it is my beliefs. I am happy with it. I see miracles every day and some of them were really something. I know there are those who don't believe in religion, God or whatever. I don't think they are going to be condemned to any hellfire for it. I am happy for the companionship that I have and the things that I have learned everyday.

    I will be ending this for now. As I said earlier, I am leaving tomorrow morning for Busan and Japan. It is late now. Now that scares me for I will be alone and I don't speak Korean. Ah, life is an adventure. I am hoping I can find some books in English.

  138. #Lori

    Please understand that I have thoroughly enjoyed our co-respondence. And look forward to more!

    I disagree with you on many things and I have gotten angry at you... much to my chagrin.... but there is a shortage of smart people in the world.

    I am glad to speak to one more-- (before I die!)

    You have much to teach me. And I have learned much from your posts. I just hate the imaginary friends thing...

  139. @Lori

    Oh, I understand that YOU believe in medicine. My niece's story was not about medicine. It was about spiritual guides looking out for you.

    Try to rise grasp the whole context... the Earth is 4 billion years old, humans are tiny, innefectual, motes of dust that mean nothing.

    After we are all dust, the Earth moves on... (which I know that you understand as a Bhuddist but, maybe you don't really grasp it? Like your son said, perhaps you have embraced a Western version of Bhuddism, which is silly)

    I totally get your point of view. I've read all the books. But, I read the books and then I look at the world.

    Science and rigorous testing of truth is the only road to truth. Not meditation... that is just... sorry... masturb@tion.

  140. Randy,you got me wrong. I never said someone is looking out after me. This again is a Christian concept that has no part in my life. I have a partnership with my Spiritual Center or whatever one can call it. Again, my son calls me a salad bar Buddhist as I go up to the bar and just take what I want. He is more discipline than I am and is more of a organized Buddhist. He is very successful in his field and a few others.

    Being a few years older than you, I remember the hippie generation. I watched what happened around me but did not participate as I was in college at the time. I had other ideas on what I was going to do with my life.

    Again, you have preconceived ideas about me, but then how would you know who I was. I have never denied the importance of medicine, for example, and have a great relationship with my doctor. The VA saved my life on more than a few occasions. I have a very high regard for the Veterans Administration and their clinics and hospitals.

    I follow the middle path in many things. I believe in working for one's living and having the education in getting good jobs, having a good home or in my case a series of houses that were better than the last one. The first one I shared with termites in Kansas. Luckily, I don't have that problem anymore as I sold that house and bought another much better and bigger.

    I have been in trouble more than a few times and yes I have had help and so far I have survived. Maybe one day I won't. I lasted until I am 65 years now. That is not so bad. I grew up with a bunch of kids and I am the only one that made it. I have a very close relationship with my spiritual guardian and I know he or she is there. My Higher Power, Lord Buddha, my Spiritual Center , whatever is more real than anything I know and I am in constant contact all of the time. That is what meditation is all about. I have never had any doubts about my relationship with the Eternal. It is a strong one. He or she talks to me all of the time.

  141. #Lori

    This is becoming our personal chat room! Thanks Vlatko!

    Well, I am 57 and I have a relapsing/remitting course of MS and so I often crumple into a heap like Stephen Hawking. Then, days later, I am fine and strong, and can excersise and do whatever humans do...

    It hits me when I do not sleep, like now... my writing keeps my brain from shutting down...

    Yes, ma'am, I am old and bitter. Also cynical and jaded. Also, very cruel to my employees, but very sweet to my wife.

    I cook and clean for her. She loves my cooking... OK-- that was way wierd, sorry...

    The studies that I quoted were verified, whether you want to believe them or not. You must consider that you are simply looking away from the horror and, of course, that does NOT mean the horror goes away.


    However, I did like your last post. It was better written than anything I saw on your site. The chicken story was particularly enjoyable.

    YOu sound like my hippy-niece who lives in Arizona and has joined a cult there. She almost killed my great-nephew, (her child) because she denies medicine and thinks The Universe is looking out for her. (she never avoided the hospital and would rather have consulted her "reflexologist" or some sh*ts... insane...)

    Thankfully, she finally listened to me, as I hauranged her over the phone, and the baby is fine...

    Bottom line: this idea that someone is looking out for you can usually turn into horror and destruction.

    Invisible forces will not come to your aide, only the visible kind of forces are valid. Visible, testable, measurable. Nothing else matters.

  142. I knew Michael Crieghton. He did not have a very high opinion of people as intellectuals. We had many arguments. Well, you can believe what you want to believe regarding the average American.

    It used to bother me what people believed but it doesn't anymore. I think I am right. You know what is ironic is I did not apply for a job here. I was invited by the country to come here and teach. I never thought I would ever go to Korea. Now that I am here, I can say I enjoyed my time here and am looking forward to seeing more of it tomorrow as I am going to Busan, Korea tomorrow and taking a ferry to Japan. I have been to Japan but not the part that I am going.

    I think I am enjoying this world and have more to do before it is the end of the track whenever it is. I joined a Senior Citizen Center when I was 57 because I wanted to get some exercise but gave it up because many of the seniors there are so bitter. I have kept some people there as friends and they quit for the same reason.

    You sound so old and bitter and it is ironic because I believe that I am older than you are. I love getting up in the morning and seeing people and watching the sun go down. I don't think I am naive but see the world as it really is. I made up my mind that I did not want to be sour and bitter and for the most part I have kept my promise to myself.

    When I was a kid I knew so many old people who were mean and vicious and hated everyone and everything. I wanted to be happy. Why are you so angry at those of us who are happy and contented? You have things I don't have for I never had a relationship that worked or lots of money. I used to hurt every time I moved. Now, it is not so bad although I did have to take a pain reliever a few minutes ago. I am happy the pills worked. I am happy for people who are happy. I went walking and even though it hurt, I was able to do it. I used an umbrella to keep the sun off and was glad I had it.

    I have been hearing chickens in the morning and that puzzled me. I saw some wild chickens in a garden nearby tended by a large corporation. That made me laugh because knowing the Koreans the way I do they won't last long before someone catches them and puts them in a pot. At least I know where those sounds are coming from. Life is an adventure, small and big.

  143. No. Lori, you are being naive. You suffer from the same delusion that most Americans suffer from, thus: "whatever I enjoy in my circles the rest of the world also enjoys..."

    Do you know that less than 4% of the American people read one new book a year? That's a fact.

    The small amount of people you see in Korea does not the population of the world, make.

    The Average American can not even read more than one and a half pages of internet text without losing interest.

    Newspapers and magazines are dying.

    Less than 2% percent of Americans have had a latte or cappaccino, despite the fact that TV tells us Starbucks is everywhere, (it has really saturated the east and west coast... the money coasts...)

    Most Americans can't find Korea on a map, or know anything about their own country's history... or any history. Studies show this to be true.

    Dim and sloppy, frankly.

    This is what you want to rejoice in?

    All I see are baboons scurrying and screeching... let me out of this place!

    But anyway, Michael Crieghton said, in an interview with 60 minutes, talking about his success in the film industry, "People in the movie business are st00pid-- like 2+2=5, st00pid..."

    If any of my books got picked up by a movie studio, I think I would kill someone. I do not like st00pid people. I want to eat them.

    Not you Lori, you are smart, I see that. Just naive.

  144. Randy, actually writers are doing alright. In the past, I needed to make money in a hurry. It is not in writing books. Now I only write what I want to do. I get the majority of my income from other sources. It isn't my only income. I am disabled too, but I never consider myself a cripple.

    As for movie rights, well a movie can kill future sales as much as anything else. I have a friend who sold a book to a movie company and it almost killed her series of books. She said she will never do it again. It took a long time for the public to forget that awful movie that was made from her book. Now, she is selling again but not as much as she used to.

    Many writers are not as keen on selling to movie companies. Ask Michael Collins who sold a book, "Blood Work", to a movie company headed by Clint Eastwood and he changed the plot so that it did not make sense.

    To be honest, no one has made a movie from one of my books so I can't say what I would do. A lot of writers sell the rights but the book never gets made into a movie. Some with agents sell the rights without the writers consent.

    It does take much for me to live on. The money that I am living on here in Korea has nothing to do with the money I have in the States but is money I earned here in Korea. Many teachers earned as much as I did but worked several jobs just to make a living. I just did one job because I only had myself to support and no bills. I also was writing at the same time.

    I never write for Internet blogs except fun stuff. I have four and none of them have my creative efforts. None of them have my pen name as this one does not. I wrote some poetry once and a poet took me to task for it and even though I did not think my stuff was worth all that much he showed me how some of my poems had showed up under other people's names. That cured me permanently. Poetry does not pay the bills but it is mine.

    I do not write any genre that makes money. I write whatever genre that I want to write in. The key is what I want to write and not what is making money out there. I am lucky in that I don't have to write to survive.

    People do read. The local Barnes and Noble where I live in the States is always crowded and they have a book in their hands.

    There is a library in Seoul, South Korea where the library will not allow anyone to check out a book. It is a crazy library, but the same crowd shows up every day just to read the books in English and they are all Korean for the most part. They fill up the chairs.

    It is next to impossible to buy a book in English here or at least to have much choice. I think the worst books are shipped here. I even thought about sneaking those books I did get suckered into buying back into the bookstore because I don't know what I am going to do with them once I leave. I just can't throw away the books into the trash bin.

    I truly believe every human being is of worth and that I am beloved of God, Jehovah, The Flying Spaghetti Monster or whatever and that part loves me like no other part does. So excuse me if I don't understand your part of view of being so evil. Even Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin was beloved of God. You are so lucky to have found someone who loves you and you consider yourself evil? Well, it takes all kinds in this world.

  145. Sorry, my fingers lost the keys up there, I meant to ype, "as a business man AND A CRIPPLE..."

    Carry on...

  146. @Lori


    Thank you for writing that. And please, understand that you should NEVER, EVER take my twisted ideology into your heart. It is poison, believe me!

    When I get up in the morning, ready to make more money for my family, I do say, "THIS is the day I will die. THIS is my last day on this fetid Earth."

    That helps me to face all the terrors I must face as a business man smd s cripple.

    Is that strange?

    Well, so you write any genre that makes money? I get that. The average American writer makes 2000 dollars (US) a year. And that is usually on Internet blogs... sigh...

    Every book a publisher picks up, is published at a loss, unless they can sell a movie right.

    No-one reads anymore.

    It is a bad time to be a writer. Ignorance reigns.

  147. I have written in all genres and love young adult although I am presently working in adult mainstream. I used to do more non-fiction but I seldom do it now although I do personal essays from time to time. I am ignoring your hostility in your last post. I don't have a problem with romance, but I have written it only when I needed a quick buck or two. I am not there now.

    Because I am optimistic by nature, I used to cringe when people would criticize my tendency in this direction. I don't anymore. Now, if you don't like a book, don't read it. If you don't like a tv show, don't watch it. If you don't like anything, don't get up in the morning. I am not going to worry about your opinion of anything.

  148. @Isis

    I AM a monster, thank you for noticing...


    Again, even as I do not like your writing style, what is it that you write? Stories of true love and romance? Tear jerkers about how awessome kids are? Family fun times?

    Is it adventure on the high-seas? Spy thrillers, horror...

    In what genre do you work? Curious.

    Me, I write horror/sci-fi/fantasy, mostly. You?

  149. @Isis:

    Who are you, the purple people eater??

  150. Jeez all you guys can talk about is scientology? Did any of you actually watch this? you monsters

  151. Achems Razor, no problemo.....

  152. @Lori:

    Okay, that makes sense, then I humbly apologize.

    Thanks for clarifying.

  153. I may have given websites for information but as far as I know none of them had fiction on them. Oh, I just figured it out. That is a blog. You have to write blogs in the first person. I never put my creative efforts out on the Internet. Any writer who does is nuts. If you read the introduction of the blog itself, you would have known it is a essay of sorts of my life at present, that's all.

  154. @Lori:

    Just assumed you wrote "Sunrise" on the website you gave. If not, then my bad, and apologize.

  155. Achems Razor, I am writing in the first person. What other pronoun would I use? We? I would have to have DID. I'm writing a post on a forum not a short story. Now that you mentioned it, it is "too obsessive" and not "to obsessive" . What short story?

  156. @Lori:

    I am not trying to be judgmental but you say you are a writer? you seem to be writing in the first person, which is okay. But to me, 38 pronouns "I" seems to me to be to obsessive in your short story "Sunrise"

    Could not help but notice! forgive me.

  157. @Lori

    I got very cranky with you AGAIN!

    I am sorry, but, whenever anyone talks about how angels or guardians or any super-natural things are looking out for us, I get a little offended. Because no one seemd to be looking out for me.

    I didn't "deserve" the horror of my childhood, but I can make peace with it by saying... "This is just something humans do..."

    Also, I got really offended when you dis-respected Dr. Elaine Pagels, I really like her work, and her scholarship, and I got grumpy when people don't get that. But that is all ME...

    I went on to your website. I am not a huge fan of your writing style. I'm just sayin' I am glad you are making a living at it, but I really feel that I could cr@p better narratives.

    What is it you write about, really? Seriously, I am interested...

  158. @RV

    Now, see, I used my innate ability to "read" people and see through them, to steal money from them, for a long time.

    I was a con-man, a spiritual advisor, and tarot reader, etc... in the Grifter trade we call it a "head-game".

    I made a fortune, all tax free, because I was registered with many pagan churches as a minister... but my guilt and my moral and ethical quandries almost tore me apart, (again! Life is pain... I find...).

    That was when I tried to be a medical doctor and when that failed, I tried to be a lawyer, and then that failed, (contract law! Holy Batman, that is some brain killingly boring stuff, man!)...

    I just went into the computer science business... well, many other stops along the way, but you understand...

    I tried to make up for my crimes... and now, as much as I know I could make a KAJILLION dollars tomorrow playing a head-game, I can't...

    I'm not as evil as I want to pretend, I guess..

  159. Randy, everyone should deal with people with barriers in place. I know that I can deal with people as a writer but when I was a social worker I had nightmares. I have a friend who married a very needy man although she did not think so at the time. Unknowingly, she saw her weight go up because she could not take his psychological needs and unconsciously put a layer of fat between him and her. Ironically, he left her because she was too ugly for him and her weight went down and she is a lot more happier and in a better relationship.

    I live alone because I need to have people back from me so that I can do the other things I need to do in my life. I can't if they are too close. I am happier that way. Everyone has their limits. Instead, I help out my relatives and am a friend to those I do let into my inner circle. Usually, those I am friends with are very much like me. That does not mean I don't get hurt as I do all of the time. I just don't get devastated.

    W. Somerset Maugham in his book,"The Summing Up", which I am re-reading right now, said that he never ducked out of living life but his greatest joy was books. He doubt if people ever understood the joy he felt when he started certain books and when he was out there living life and all its trials, and he had plenty, he always returned to books. Reading "Matilda" by Roald Dahl again it is apparent that Dahl had a great love of books all of his life. Books are part of the barrier I use with people and some of the joy of life. I will never apologize for that.

    Some people self-medicate with alcohol and drugs. Luckily, I never had that problem. I always had my books and my imagination. I guess what I am trying to see in a round about way is that you feel you are different and odd and you are not. We all can't deal with people but on varying levels. We just find ways of dealing with humanity in our own ways. The ego is a human created way of dealing with it. We all are individuals.

  160. @Lori; What I state is torte reform not abolition. I am as likely to find a case where a family receiver tens of millions of dollars in compensation for their 98 year old grand mother dieing of a staph infection after drastic open heart surgery. Life is life bad things will happen regardless of how carefull an individual is. It is those cases that need to be stopped not the obvious cases of negligence. As to your thoughts on cost I am afraid you are wrong for many doctors, Surgeons and anesthesiologists, more than half of their income is payed into malpractice insurance. And that is ontop of the facilities coverage and costs. Today that grandmas family could sue and win against each medical professional as well as the institution the maker of the sterilyzing equipment etc. etc. this costs a lot of money.

  161. Reasons Voice, we differ on torte reform. I don't see that as a problem. The total cost of malpractice is very small in consideration of the total cost of doing medicine. It also acts in the total picture of checks and balances for doctors as a a whole. Go to the law library someday and read the cases of some of those lawsuits. Talk about incompetence. You have doctors dropping babies after they are born because of faulty equipment and they being drunk, you have doctors who don't bother to read the medical history before making major medical decisions and so on. I think this part of medicine should stay in place after all it helps patients recover from some doctors gross negligence. Why should patients not have a basis of redress when they have a lifetime of expense because some doctors could not bother to be sober or get out of medicine if they have a major personality quirk.

  162. @Randy: Thank you for your compliment. As to my "brilliance" it is and always has been a simple intuitiveness and empathy within me. Typically I tend to be able to "read" people by their words and actions. I too pursued a life where I could utilize this to the betterment of man (or at least those few I came across) in the form of the police department. My candor, as well as an arthritic condition, Put a stop to that. When my interviewer at my psych evaluation asked me " Would you trust yourself in a situation where you caught a child rapist in the act?" They typically do not want you to say NO. I now work in medicine instead. I too have my jaded side. I am in a way your miror image as I continue to put myself forth for the masses but have given up on the deeper individual connections. As a man who has read The Idi0t you will understand why. I like The prince chased my Nastasya to my ultimate sorrow and have hence lost faith. Alas tomorow is another day and has yet to be determined.

  163. @RV

    You are a brilliant man, and I have read Dostoevsky's "The 1di0t" and I know exactly what you mean.

    Psychologically, you are right on the money with me. I tried to get "in the dirt" and help people but the empathy, the sympathy, the compassion almost tore me apart.

    So, I distanced myself from humanity. The pain was too much. Yes. Exactly.

    I would rather walk away from tragedy than join in it. And I feel guilty about that... but... what the hell are ya gonna do! Am I right?

    Conversely, most, (not all!) of the social workers, welfare workers, police and others who deal everyday with the horrors of humanity, seem, to me, to be, cold fish. They have to be. I get that.

    Still. My wife. That's all. She's all that I live for, really. And all ya'll can go to hell!

    Kidding! Maybe...

  164. @Randy: Glad ya liked the analogy for ya. I see you as the "catcher" type because, yes you are aloof also you are misanthropic on the surface but it seems that just serves to hide a deep sympathy for the human condition. Another book you may enjoy as it's main character mirrors you in a way is The Idiot by Dostoevsky. Don't be insulted by the title I associate myself with the main character in this novel as well.

    @topic; Just a few points of fact. Medical education will never become cheaper unless Extended pensions and inflated salaries of educational staff are controlled. The teachers union will never allow that. The cost of medicine will not decline until torte reform is enacted to lower malpractice premiums. I worked with a doctor once who had a sign on the wall that said "If you don't like my God complex don't sue me for being human". I loved that quote, and it summed up one major problem in medicine today.

    @my religious stance: I am not Christian per say. I am a polly religious agnostic. lol. I believe most religions carry withing them a basic moral code that is beneficial to man kind. Teachings from Christianity to taoism all have beautiful messages buried within the mythology. As to my spiritual sense I would say Buddhist or Taoist come closest to me in the belief that all life comes from some source and will one day return to it.

  165. I don't feel sorry for myself. I want MORE pain in my life, as I previously indicated.

    I am contantly wracked with pain. Who cares? That's what happens when your mother mates with some loser she met in a bar.

    I do not think you have any truth. That is my point.

    I went to a lecture of the Dalai Lama at Princeton University. I walked out.

    Silly hippie.

    Nobody gives it to you, you have to TAKE it. There is nobody looking out for you, Lori, or me, life is random chaos.


  166. Randy, I don't know why there evil is done to people in the world. Maybe it is because we have free will and God runs a democracy. You make assumptions that it wasn't done to me. Please believe me it was. Yes, my spirituality does address it. Life is what it is.

    I am not going to explain why things happen in this world because I don't know why. My brain isn't that big. Christians have this world view that everything is explained in their Bible. I am not a Christian and I know that there are no answers out there. If I need an answer I meditate on it. My reality is my relationship and that is all.

    Sometimes, I think that is what is really addressed in the documentary that is in question here. People want answers. They think they will get them, but I know I won't. I will never understand the Supreme Being or whatever is out there or in here. It isn't necessary for me to have that knowledge. It is only necessary for me to have a relationship with a part of it, the Tao, the Zen or whatever. Meditation helps me with it.

    Some people want a pill that will take away the fear and loneliness that results in feeling alone in the world. I never feel alone. Right now I am in a room full of guides. I don't have guides because I am special. We all have them.

    As for the reason they do it, why does the Dalai Lama return over and over again to help his people? Helping others find their way on the pathway is something people want to do or at least some. The Tao is full of such people who just want to be of help to others. The closer you get to the Eternal the more you want to do it. I guess it is all of that compassion.

    Don't put me on the defensive that I am somehow here to give you the truth about things. I don't know the truth anymore than anyone else does. We all have the truth within us. It is the connection that binds us to the Spiritual Center of the Universe. How you get there will be up to you.

    You feel sorry for yourself and think you are the only one that has been badly treated. Get over that. You aren't. Sometimes you have to go through a lot of thunderstorms to get the rainbows you seek. (Irish Proverb)

  167. So, you have guardians that look out for you? Why would they do that? Do you think?

    And why wouldn't they look out for me, as a little child, kidnapped and raped by a madman?

    I don't care, one way or the other, but it is a point of curiosity for me.

    Enlighten me, Lori. (you see, there is real horror in the world that your "spirituality" does not address. Pure logic and reason makes it clear, however.)

  168. Well, I don't believe there are any evil people but people who do evil things. As for deserving to be treated well or whether or not I deserve anything good from life? Gee, I never asked asked that question. There is no doubt that I have gotten good things from this life.

    I don't think I want to play the "deserve game". For me, it just worked out that way. I have had two major surgeries that I should have died in but didn't. There has been many instances where I was in situations that I did not think I would survive but did. I can't tell you why. I just did. One day, the Grim Reaper will come for me and I am hoping it will be at a time in which I am very happy to go.

    I have always had strong spiritual beliefs and a strong relationship with my Spiritual Center but it is not necessarily tied into any particular religion although it fits well with Buddhism.

    I don't care what anybody thinks of me as a writer. It has taken me a long time to get that way. Before I would not have the courage to send my stuff out and it still scares me at times. I know it is me I have to please and no one else otherwise it is no fun writing.

    I used to be politically active and I am so happy that I am no longer playing in that arena. I like it where I am. I just retired from being a university professor and I am glad of that too. Stick a fork in me for I am done. Thank goodness I no longer have to work for money.

    Joseph Campbell said that everything you do has the possibility of being evil to someone. I think he is right there. Sometimes, the most evil of motives and actions turns out to be the vest best thing you can do to someone. That recently happened to me. As I said, I don't understand evil or Mara.

    I don't believe I am evil for I love my Spiritual Center and Guardians with all of my heart and try very hard to do the right thing but I often goof up. So sue me. I am human.

  169. You see, Lori, I have more respect for those that admit they are evil and do evil things, than those that claim to be good, and do evil things.

    I am an evil man, and, as such, capable of great horror upon the world. But I'm fine with that...

    What I can not stand are the monsters that do horror upon the world in the name of Justice, or Religion, or whatever their justification might be.

    You seem like one of those...

    Answer me this: do you "deserve" anything good from life?

  170. Well, I didn't WANT to go into why Joseph Campbell loved George Lucas. SO, I won't. (and yes, it was supposed to be "except" give me a break!)

    Let me be clear, I love Joseph Campbell, he was a great man, George Lucas is a poor writer. I'm not going into any more there, unless you have seen "The Power of Myth".

    Um, I'm sorry, if you do not think Dr. Elaine Pagels was impressive... well then... you must be pretty impressed with yourself.

    That's fine. And you are a professional writer? OK.

    And, you prefer your own company. I smell a narcissist. Pick that spelling apart.

    I am a narcissist. And I enjoy only my own company, (and my wife's), but I have the good sense to think that is bad.

    People that don't think their self absorption is evil... well, they are blindly evil.

    I am wide awake evil! What is your excuse?

  171. Randy, so many issues. I have no idea what you are talking about when you said: "excpet for his love of George Lucas, I saw through that subterfuge… I’ll let that go…" Exactly what to you mean here? Does 'excpet' mean except? I will agree that Joseph Campbell was a great and wonderful intellectual and thinker as well as mythologist.

    As for worshiping women, I will never do that. Here in Korea, there is a sub-genre of women that I call the Dragon Ladies. They exist in other countries even the United States. Women can be very cruel especially to other women. When women and girls join in groups, they have rules and they can hurt each other if not kill. Haven't you been watching the news?

    I have tried to read Elaine Pagels and saw her interviewed for many programs including several documentaries on this website. I have not been impressed with her. I wanted to be, but I wasn't.

    I like women and men equally but prefer my own company for the most part but that works well since I am a professional writer. I like living alone although I will not be able to once I return home to the States. That is why I am considering visiting another country after I am in my house for a while visiting my relatives and friends. My son and his family live in my house and although it is a large house my son has a large family.

  172. @Lori

    Well, Joseph Campbell, he will change your life. Amazing man, excpet for his love of George Lucas, I saw through that subterfuge... I'll let that go...

    I agree with you about we as primates, of course, but there is a biological imperative, to worship women...

    Do you not agree? I mean, the Earth is female. Is it not? Does it not give birth to forms?

    Are women not creatrixes? My mother was horrible but that does not mean all womaen are. I believe most women want to nurture their children.

    Didn't you?

    Also, Lori, you may want to, just for fun, look up Dr. Elaine Pagels and her Pulitcer Prize winning thesis, "The Orgins of Satan" (or any of her other books on gnostic gospels), she is astounding.

    I met her once at a PhD luncheon at Princenton University: I was a wreck! I gushed all over her, and I must say, I did NOT make a good impression. She was nice and polite, but got away from me as soon as she could!

    (She is the head of religious studies at Princeton)

    Also, read her, "Gospel of Mary Magdeline"

    Anyways--- what were we talking about? Women? I like them...

  173. As a woman, I don't consider men as evolutionary material, but then I've had my children and now have grandchildren. I meet men everyday and have other requirements for friendship. For most of their lives, women are not capable of having children. I think men have fantasies that woman are in that frame of mind. They are not.

    Women are smarter and stronger than men but not overly so otherwise why are we still in the pickle we are in now? Many studies have shown this to be true. The one that I can point to is one by Ashley Monteque (sp?) of Harvard University who wrote a book on the subject: "The National Superiority of Women".

    I don't think men or women are terrible. We are primates and we do ape like things. I think this site has a film in which chimps are filmed murdering another chimp. Some scientists feel that this is the beginning of cooperation and civilization.

    As for evil that Randy is talking about, I have been reading Joseph Campbell on line since I can't get his books here in Korea and find his definition of Satan, Devil and evil very interesting. I may change my mind on Mara (Buddhist name for the Devil).

  174. @Achems

    Again, I think it is an evolutionary signal that the man is good breeding material. I mean, women have to consider every physical trait that they can... they have MUCH more invested in the reproduction process than men.

    Women have to be smarter than men. That's just evolution...

  175. @Reasons Voice

    You called me "The Catcher in the Rye". Very interesting. As much as I know it is the serial killers' favorite book, and as I have read it many times... I think you are right.

    I am aloof, and I try to keep my distance... but I desperately want to save the children from jumping over the cliff, where the Rye ends... (that would be the "Catcher" in the rye...).

    @Reasons Voice...

    You have given me much to think about...

    'Course, if you are a christian, you still get ground up as a burger, you know that, right?

    That's because I am EVIL!!! Pure, crunchy, chocolatey, EVIL!!!

  176. @Randy

    Am still trying to figure out why women like butts, I mean butts on women yeah, I can see that all right, they are attenuated, but on men no. Or are we getting off topic here?

  177. And how could you not, Achems. Really. What with all the wisdom and the nice, and the soft, and the squishy...

    I'm sorry, I wandered off there...

    What were we talking about...?

    1. & very obviously on drugs Randy

  178. @Randy:

    I agree! women rule! And I love them with all my heart and soul!

  179. @Achems wrote:

    "It seems that panic attacks appear often in people with above average intelligence...."

    You are NOT lyin' about that, my brother!

    When you see the reality of the world, it can scare ya, a little bit... is all's I'm sayin'...

    Thankfully, there are women. Really, the only salvation we have. For me it is not a mother, although, for many I understand it is, for ME, it is my wife. She is jesus christ, and Batman, to me.

    OK, now the tears and the violin swells and the piano goes: "Tinkly-tink"... whatever!

    I want to grind up all christians into hamburger and feed them to the poor! I'm EVIL!!!

  180. It seems that panic attacks appear often in people with above average intelligence.
    Panic "attack" will not damage the heart per sa: But panic "attacks" will damage the cardiovascular system if prolonged and often, but then depends on the person, it is classed as stress, which in itself is not good for a person especially if type A personality.

    The only good stress is called "Eustress", which is classed as positive stress, we actually need such for good living.

    I myself had literally "hundreds" of panic attacks when younger, and agoraphobia, when I actually figured out not to be scared of all that, it all went away! And I saw no doctors for that at all, am my own doctor I suppose.

    My heart and blood work are "good" no damage done!
    I guess what did not kill me made me stronger. (LOL)

  181. When I was growing up, our family had a doctor, Dr. Binder. He knew my whorish, drug addicted mother, all of her bothers and sisters, all of my cousins, etc.

    He knew us intimately, he watched over us, and knew what we could handle and what was good for us... etc... The typical office visit was 30 bucks.

    The age of the family doctor is long, LONG over... he died at the age of 75 and he looked like a man of 35...

    I went into medicine because of him. But his way of doing medicine, as I said, is very long-- LONG over... when I saw that... I dropped out of medical school.

  182. Yes, ma'am. Even one anxiety attack CAN damage the heart. (It doesn't always, but a good doctor would be SURE! I think....)

    Well, Valium aleviates the symptoms, temporarily, while the patient deals with the source of the anxiety. With whatever means needed.... Bhuddism, christianity... whatever they need to feel safe, I guess...

    Then, of course, the valium gets flushed, yes. I mean, it is safe and effective, but as I said, very addictive. YOu must, as a physician follow up carefully, which, most doctors do not have the time to do in this day and age...

    *shrug* I would be a good doctor, but I would kill myself... the first patient I lost under my care. I think that tells you a lot about my psyche... and, really why I dropped out of medical and LAW school...

    But, I am EVIL!!! (With a soft chewy center...)

  183. Randy, I have never heard that anxiety and panic attacks or damage the heart. That is new to me. I used to have them all of the time. Then they stopped. I do know my heart is fine now.

    Years ago during the same period, the Veterans Hospital gave me lots and lots of Valium to combat the panic attacks. For some reason, I knew that those little pills were wrong for me and flushed them down the john. I am so glad I did. Now, when the doctors give Valium it is in 1/2 pill size and it is rare. Now, it is Vicadin (sp.?)they are shoving at me. Again, they are going down the john. It was only after my last surgery. I know too many people addicted to that stuff. Friends and even relatives were going through my private stuff looking for my meds. They were very disappointed when I told them I threw them away.

    I wish the doctors would listen to me on what meds is good for me. I have arthritis and over the counter meds are just fine for now. I take Advil and not every day. Since coming to Korea, I have changed my medication level from one every six hours to one or two a week. I attribute this to the amount of exercise I get and it is all just walking. I may not be a medical doctor but know what is good for me. I would rather under-medicate than over-medicate. Some day I might need that extra edge.

  184. Dont want to watch, to much one sided for me.

  185. Have seen this doc. before, the comments are interesting, signing on.

  186. Well, as I do not believe in any "inner person" soul or spirit, it becomes kind of moot for me.

    I do believe in Cash. Gobs and gobs of Cash.

    So, there is that.

    In my mailbox, there is a comment from a woman named Eva on this thread. I guess it is in moderation.

    But I will address Eva and say to her: Any doctor worth his/her salt should have thoroughly examined your heart. Even ONE panic/anxiety attack can cause heart damage!

    I'm so sorry you got a bad doctor... unfortunately it is something we are going to have to get used to, I'm afraid.

    I would have prescribed Valium-like drugs or beta-blockers, (which I imagine you are on now?), and a sensible routine of regular excersise. Not too strenuous, obviously.

  187. Reasons Voice, I think it is possible to have more time per patient. I also think there should be more doctors and it should not cost as much as it does to train them. More programs should be in place to pay for it. There should be teams with constant reviews of patients to make sure the best is done for each patient. In some places, that is being done with great success.

    Maybe, that means doctors earn less and that is a real possibility. Doctors used to earn a lot less money than they do now and there were plenty of people still wanting to be doctors. The high wages of doctors is a recent phenomena. Their numbers were kept artificially low in order to create demand and higher pay for their numbers.

    A world in which there is a better ratio of patient and doctor once was the norm and not the exception can return if we can regain control of the medical profession. For too many years, doctors or at least some, have held all of us hostage to their services because without them we more or less die a lot sooner than we have to. Many of the insurance companies are owned by doctors.

    The last health care reform was only a step in reforming the health care system. When England went into their present system, it was welcomed by doctors because they were tired of seeing their patients die or of not being paid. A good caring doctor does not want to see a patient die in pain because he or she did not have the money to see them. Doctors also have families to support.

  188. Oh Randy, living mindfully is the cornerstone of Buddhism so I think it is the way to go. I also meditate in many ways and I am set to do this as I do every morning as it is morning here in Korea. It is finally cool this morning here. I have been waiting for this for a while as the summers are really oppressive here.

    Other than being a writer which I love to do, I am also an avid reader which is very difficult here since I can only read in English and those books are hard to come by. Reading is a joy and it never gets boring and neither does writing. I live surrounded by small parks which means with the cooler weather I can go walking later this morning.

    I don't know what successful is. I suppose my son is the most successful in our family in that he makes tons of money but I do alright. I used to think supreme success was having a full fridge. Now, that is never a problem. It is all relative same as happiness. The film above seems to say that you shouldn't have happiness out of pills that somehow one does not deserve it if it isn't torn out of suffering. Again, I think it is all relative. I take medication so that I don't have seizures. I love the stuff. There is no side effects. I am happy with that. I also don't feel that society owes me more.

    The one thing that I love about Buddhism is one has to pay a lot of attention to the inner person and to meditate on what the attachments are so that can they be broken. Carl Jung worked very hard to get to know himself and he states he never really did and he lived into his 80's. I am always learning something new about the way I think about things. I love learning new things about my relatives and friends too. I think we all deserve to be happy and many of us have to live a lot of lifetimes to learn that.

  189. I agree with all of you who feel that adequate time must be given to each patient as an individual. Sadly however the logistics of that are simply impossible. If one doctor sees 80 patients in an 8 hour day they each get 6 minutes of his time. For a deep understanding of an individual we would need what? An hour per patient. that means the doctor only sees 10 patients. Where do the other 70 go? the only solution would be 7 times more doctors. A world with a 1:8 ratio of doctors to patients?? just never ever going to happen.
    @ Randy: You sir are the catcher in the rye. I hope some joy passes through you from time to time. Yours is a hard way to live. I know I have been there.

  190. Ok, Lori, your argument is very beautiful. I like it.

    I am not angry, as I said, I ask life to give me more punishment! I enjoy it! If life gets too easy I want to cut off a finger, or something!

    But I am emotionally imbalanced, obviously.

    Taking things as they come is very seductive. I find the idea very appealing. I guess, it is my struggle with life, constant and never-ending, that gives me pause...

    I am successful, but am I happy? Do I want to be? Do I feel I deserve to be? Do I know what happy means?

    Etc... and then it gets boring... LOL!

    Good for you, though!

  191. His wife and son was taken care of by his father. Sorry, that is how it happened. His son became a disciple later in his life. The woman who raised him after his mother died when Prince Siddhartha died also became a nun. He had a very good relationship with the mother of his child.

    I am not going to defend religions. Life is what it is. Religion is a great solace to some and not to others. The Dharma for me is what comes up during meditation. That is it. Nothing else matters.

    I used to be very angry at how I was treated in this world. I am no longer in that place. I love getting up in the morning and going to sleep in the night. I have the best job in the world. I have no idea what is going to happen tomorrow. No one does except the train track we are on will end someday. That is called impermanence.

    Some of the greatest cruelties I have seen are in religion and some of them are the greatest expressions of compassion. To me, The Lord Buddha or whatever is out there is pure compassion. I try very hard not to worry about it. It is really none of my business. The Tao surrounds us all or if you like the Zen. Whatever....I think the Christians call it the Holy Ghost. All I know is that it makes me feel comfortable and will until I leave this dimension and go to where ever is next.

  192. #Lori

    Um... well, as good as we are getting along, I must say this:

    Hinduism, the religion that Prince Siddartha was born into and emerged from, is a very cruel religion. It was then and is now. Any woman that is left by her husband would have become "An Untouchable" a beggar in the streets.

    The Idea that she was taken care of by her father-in-law, is Western silliness.

    All of the eastern religions have an inherent cruelty that Westerners either overlook, or is hidden from them, (by the horrid likes of Deepak Choprah, for example...).

    But, Julia Sweeney relates a story that she experienced in Tibet in a Bhuddist monastary (sp?).

    A Bhuddist nun, Julia noticed, was taking care of a deformed boy. Julia said to her, "How wonderful of you to take such good care of that poor boy!" in English, the nun spoke English, of course.

    The nun said, incredibly, "Don't feel sorry for that boy! He did something terrible in his previous life to deserve to be born that way!"

    Cruelty. In all religions. From the Norse, to the Chinese, to the Middle East, and everywhere in between. The people are GREAT, their religions are st00pid!

    No religion is best. Just people respecting each other.

    Well, not me... you guys go and respect each other... I'm gonna go and leave you to it... cuz, I have only met about 6 people in my long life I can respect. Really.

  193. Flight 001, is it? I have always found that certain behaviors are expected from certain kinds of doctors in all branches of medicine.

  194. "The Marketing of Madness: Are We All Insane?".

    This is highly simplistic view point, but a valid reason why psychiatry and psychiatric drugging will be rejected the world over.

    When it comes to psychiatry, we can all learn the lines and behaviour from Hollywood and imitate being a patient. This is not the case with other branches of medicine.

  195. Prince Siddhartha did not leave his wife and child to misery. They were well taken care of by his father. He left so that he could work in getting everyone off the wheel of life. He succeeded.

    What causes suffering is the attachment to suffering and to anger and other things, but I am no expert on Buddhism. Sometimes we get attached to our illnesses, pain, bad experiences, anger and on it goes. That is what causes suffering or at least that is what causes it for me.

    I loved my experiences here in Korea because I was able to give up many attachments to the pain that I have had in my past and that I have now. I am not saying I did it and so can you. I hate that point of view. I am just saying what is working for me at the present time. Mindfulness is the answer for me. It may not be for everyone.

    For a long time, doctors thought I had MS and I had to go through endless tests to discover it was something else. Still, I was in constant pain and could not move until I got here but with the weight loss and the fact that I had to walk when I did not want to has helped me a lot. It is all karma for me. Who knows what will happen next week. My son is in constant pain and he cannot walk at all. He has the same diagnosis as I have.

    I have found meditation has helped considerably and I do it every morning. Again, what works for me might not work for you.

  196. All life is suffering.

    The cause of suffering is desire...

    The first two Noble Truths of the Bhuddah.

    He also said that we must "Joyfully participate in the suffering of the world..."

    I used no google for that, (I have MS so, I try to always rely on my cognitive skills, just to keep by brain at its best... no computer short cuts for me...)

    I love Bhuddism, BUT, I do have a problem with Prince Siddartha (sorry if the spelling is off there), leaving his wife and child to misery, in order to find enlightenment...

    I have issues with men who leave their families... BUT, let me say this, if I had to make a choice, I would take the teachings of Prince Siddartha over jesus any day of the week and three times on Sunday!

  197. Randy, you have to let a Buddhist have her beliefs. Everyone's life is different and each of us has their karma to deal with. During my different lives, I have actually kept some of my past loves which always surprises me. Again, that is my belief as a Buddhist. I will not judge anyone else's life. I can only deal with my own. I love my family and friends and look forward to seeing them in December.

  198. @Lori

    Thank you, for that, Lori. I am honored you took the time to write a response that seemed, begrudging, but sincere.

    That's more than I can say of many of my posts.

    I do not believe in any life after brain death. In fact, the idea fills me with dread. I really want nothing after life. My life has been much like, crawling naked over broken glass while on fire.

    I do not resent any minute of it, and would like more suffering, because only suffering brings strength. But, when it ends, I would like it to end.

    My wife of 25 years? I love her, but, you know... not for an eternity... that would be silly. I have tons of money stashed away for her, that should be enough.

  199. Tattoo is spelled correctly. I have spell check. As for Grim Reaper, I have no idea when it is coming. Hopefully, not for a long time although I am going to Japan this Sunday and to Los Angeles in December so it has been on my mind. I am finally leaving Korea in December and will stay in Northern California for a bit and then to Canada or Australia, maybe. It depends on how much my book makes.

    Don't be in such a hurry to leave this earth. I'm not. I am having too good of a time. If my book hits the best seller list, I will stay in Cornwall, England for a year. I really doubt it will. Another place I would love to go but can't afford is Switzerland.

    I never worry what people think of me or if they are tired of me. It is none of my business. It took me a long time to get this way and Korea helped me a lot with that point of view. I didn't need a lobotomy to get his way. I also lost 45 pounds here which helps a lot too.

    Don't wish for death because you will just have to come back....

  200. @Lori

    HAHAHA! The tatto comment was very funny!

    Despite our dissagreements (I'm sure that is spelled incorrectly), I like you, for some reason!

    You will warm up to me, eventually... everyone does... and then I get tired of them.

    *sigh* Death is coming soon. But, not soon enough for me!

  201. Gee Randy, I am looking for a tattoo artist who can take all of your comments that you made here and put them permanently on my arms and legs. You are so smart. Why didn''t I think of that before?

    Flight 001, I don't know where you are from but the lobotomies were standard treatment in Australia for a long time. It was the subject of a biography of a writer who could not conform to society, "Angel at my Table." It was a true story. Wives were included. One of the Kennedy children was given a lobotomy because the family was afraid she would act out sexually. There was several doctors who specialized in that type of operation. A good book that is fiction and an award winning film is "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest." Again, literature is full of stories about men, women, and children.

    Women's fiction is full of these stories and many were covered up but are now seeing the light of day. It is a sad but true chapter of mental health in this world.

  202. @yal

    "Treatments Sucks?" You realize that was a double pluralization.

    You can't do that in the English language, perhaps your lack of education caused you to come to that spurious conclusion?

    Or, it could be that an organic brain disorder is the cause and could be easily detected with an FMRI...

    But, enjoy your job at Wal*Mart, afterall:

    "Treatments Sucks!"

  203. It has been a long time since any illness has ever been cured. Treatments sucks.

  204. @hankm who wrote:

    "Sure, the documentary is one-sided. But these are the facts. Sorry, there’s no “middle road” here."

    Perhaps, hankm, you should read what I wrote above:

    "I know from personal experience that if The Church [of Scientology] says something to you– YOU SHOULD RUN AS FAR AWAY AS YOU CAN… then hide under something… with a weapon in your hand, in case they find you..."

    This doc is funded and sponsored by The Church of Scientology. That means everything it says wants to hurt you. You should run away screaming, now.

    Perhaps to a therapist? You could use someone to talk to, I think... just a guess...

  205. @Flight 001

    I did not mean to be disrespectful of you. I am a very cranky, snobbish, elitist kind of guy. If I didn't know I was Irish, I would say I most resemble an Englishman! (That was a joke... perhaps not a good one... sorry)

    It just seems to me, that a rejection of psychiatry is a rejection of medicine, and a rejection of medicine is a rejection of science, and then, of course, we end up in caves trying to pray for fire... and why go back there?

    There are problems with all human conventions. Everything that we make and do and create. But it gets better. It evolves. All systems are living things, because they are created by living things.

    Is that in any way clear? Or does it sound too wierd for you... (cause it kind of sounded wierd to me... and I wrote it...)

    Psychiatry did horrible things. Monsterous things. Unspeakable evil. But it is getting better. And there is some good science behind it now.

    But as I said many times, the money-men, and politicians, they can always screw things up, and they have. Not the fault of science, just money.

  206. @ Randy

    Being from across the pond, on occasions one will appear like a daft brush to the other side: on a variety of topics and failing to scroll up and down.

    To be honest I have abosolutely no recollections of housewives being given lobotomies by their husbands, whereas I am aware of children being subjected to this treatment.

    Thanks for the baboon reference. It's a compliment!

  207. Sure, the documentary is one-sided. But these are the facts. Sorry, there's no "middle road" here.

  208. Lori and Flight001,

    I know you guys are as old as I, but you know how to SCROLL UP right?

    I think my statement, following, answered both of your concerns and it is very well documented...

    My Statement:

    "All medicine has had a horrifying evolution, and psychiatry is no exception.

    As late as the 19th century they were still doing surgery without anesthetic. Wide awake surgery! And what will really burn your buscuit is they were doing it for years after Ether was discovered as an effective method for pain-free surgery… why? Because using Ether would be against god’s will…

    But, medicine is a human thing. It evolves, it gets better. It refines it’s methods and its tools..."

    I think that handles all of the concerns in your last posts. Also, you can SCROLL UP and see all of my very learned comments on this subject and create a context that agrees with both of your ideologies.

    I mean, am I NOT typing in English? Do you NOT understand my... what... my language skills? Do you have some linguistic agility problems?

    I don't know. Most of the time, I feel I am talking to baboons. Maybe that's why so many of my employess cry, (grown men and women!), when I yell at them for being such terribly dim bulbs. Then I have to buy their favorite lunches and it's a whole thing...

    *sigh* I can NOT wait to die!

  209. I was first diagnosed with panic/anxiety disorder in 2007. I was first given Paxil to treat it with, but had adverse reactions. I was then given Zoloft by the same doctor after I had specifically expressed that I did not think the anxiety was the issue and told her that there was something wrong with my heart. She insisted that was a ridiculous suggestion because of my age and ordered me to start the Zoloft. Again, I had adverse reactions to the drug, and discontinued use. I became overly depressed and the panic attacks worsened. I continued to visit my doctor to tell her there was something wrong with my heart. I remember going to her about 18 times in one month, but she always sent me away with the same story about being overly anxious, being a hypochondriac, and tried to drive the point home with "we have done every test and there is NOTHING physically wrong with you".

    Over the next few months, things got so bad that I was having 5 to 10 severe panic attacks in one day, EVERY day. She once again tried to prescribe me Buspar, for which I said "absolutely not"! It had been 6 months since being diagnosed with panic and anxiety, and I would wake up every morning feeling as though my heart would 24 years old.

    Finally, I went to the hospital director and threatened to sue if she did not instruct my doctor to give me a cardiology referal. Reluctantly, my doctor did, and upon parting, she told me "Your just wasting your time and money, and when you see that I was right, I would like for you to make an appointment with me to start treatment on Buspar."

    When I made it to the cardiologist, my life was in shambles. My husband was wanting a divorce, and my son didn't even know who mommy was anymore. The depression was eating me alive.

    After a chest x-ray and halter monitor testing, he said that the tests were inconclusive, but he also said that he would not give up on me. He then ordered an echocardiogram and a heart mri which found certain parts of my heart enlarged, and moderate mitral valve prolapse. He expressed his concern and told me that if I had not saught treatment when I did, that I would possibly have been looking forward to cardiac failure within the consecutive 3 to 6 months. He started me on medication immediately, and after 2 months, all symptoms of depression completely dissolved.

    For the past 2 months, I have had an onset of mild depression, so I went again to a different cardiologist (I have moved), and he is possibly starting me on treatment for a relapse of an enlarged heart. I do believe that in some cases physical ailments are the cause of depression. BTW, the doctor that refused referral was let go and no longer works in Alaska.

  210. @ Lori George Alexander

    The reference Household Servant covers a multitude of possibilities including the slave trade. I just wanted to be clear about which group, you were referring to.

  211. Flight 001, this is a huge subject that has legions of writers and has been in the news for some time or for some of us in literature. I am talking about women not accepting the housewife role.

    This subject has been a subject of discussion for a few hundred years. I could not do it justice in a post but try the Internet. It is not an idea of mine, far from it. It is an accepted point of view that has even changed the way the law operates in this area. For instance, men could commit their wives into mental hospitals without their consent for years and thanks to the inroads that women's rights have made, this was stopped thank goodness. Experts in the field have been re-evaluating their role in this area.

    I am not trying to put you off, but this subject is full of writers both in literature, non-fiction, studies and so forth. I couldn't do it justice. Where have you been?

    Women have been given lobotomies, drugs, been committed to mental hospitals, and you name the remedies. Again, the literature out there is huge. It has also been called the illness without a name.

  212. @ Lori George Alexander

    I know I am going slightly off topic here but I am curious to know:
    1. Re: One group of patients that were regularly seen as being mentally ill in the past were women who could or would not accept their role in society as household servants.

    Could you elaborate more on this topic and perhaps provide an historical example. Are you referring to household servants and house wives?

    2. Re: Everything was done to force them into that role.
    What action was actually taken and how did these house servants rebel?

  213. Reasons Voice,
    You are seeing something in my post that is simply not there. Many instances of so-called mental illness do not require any medication. I said and need to say again that the medical provider must take the time and effort to see the patient on an individual basis. Many patients need therapy only. Some need nothing at all.

    One group of patients that were regularly seen as being mentally ill in the past were women who could or would not accept their role in society as household servants. Everything was done to force them into that role. It was not the patients that needed mental health intervention but society. Another group were the homosexual population. They were seen for a long time as mentally ill.

    These were people who could not accept their roles as assigned to them and only need support as they venture into other areas. Some people need medication and some don't. Some need it for a while and some never need it. Great care must be exercise before prescribing it to children.

    Nothing takes away from each human being being looked at on an individual basis. As I said before, some people don't need any intervention of any kind. For example our poets, writers, artists and even scientists do well on their own. It is relative, but if someone goes to his or her doctor they should be able to see a medical trained professional and get the treatment that does not result in their being in a worse situation than they were before going to see a doctor.

    I don't know very much about Scientology having never been to any of their meetings or known any one except Tom Cruise jumping up and down on a couch. I think each person should be viewed individually. No group thought should ever take the place of individual thought no matter what the religion is.

    I think you are seeing something in my post that is simply not there. For one thing, I have never taken any kind of medication that is in question here but have known many who have. That does not give me an expertise but I was a social worker for years and seen the ravages of mental illness when unchecked by uncaring and untrained medical personal. Often the only relief that patients get is when they jump off the bridge.

    There has to be better answers. I tend to think a more moderate road is the way to go here and a heck of a lot more research by scientists who are not paid to make more money for the drug companies but to find answers for the human condition.

  214. @Lori George Alexander; Having a distrust of Scientology is a sign of sanity on your part. However ruling out the facts of this documentary on the basis of scientological funding is an unfair bias. Many regular viewers on this site are anti-religion. If they ruled out the facts on a documentary about world hunger because it was funded by the LDS it would amount to the same thing. Simply predetermined bias and subsequent dismissal of true statements. As to the doc being one sided, I personally have seen few docs that were not one sided. Going broad spectrum and flip flopping on stance in a debate is counter productive. I agree that medication has it's uses. I worked for seven plus years in a psychiatric institution and am deeply aware that there are individuals who need meds. You reference you tour of an old psych facility as reason for medication. You set up the argument that we have two choices Medication or Chain filled dungeons.
    Those are not the facts. From what I have seen medication is more about safety and controll than aleiviating illness. What this doc tells you about Thorazine barely scratches the surface. Long term mental health patients who are regularly dosed with thorazine do little more than shuffle aimlessly and drool. They have visible tremors and are entirely disconnected from the world. That is what is called chemical restraint and yes in some cases it is essential but in no way a treatment let alone curative. As to the higher functioning socialized patients on meds again some may need it to get by but the effect is the same. Numb the disease restrain the mind but in no way rehabilitate the patient.

  215. Flight 001

    The problem with the documentary that it takes an one sided approach to a very complex problem as stated in my earlier posts.

    In an earlier post, I mentioned that I took a tour of the Topeka State Hospital that was very enlightening for me. It reminded me of another state hospital on Long Island in New York. They had chains in the walls and in Topeka's case, the cells were deep under ground so no one could hear the patients screams and yells. That sort of thing does not happen as much in this country because of the advent of drugs.

    My point is somewhere in the middle. There are many studies that show doctors who do the prescribing often do not have the training or knowledge to do so. They must be given this needed training. So in part some of the viewpoint of the documentary is correct, but what I object to is the ruling out of drugs completely. That is wrong too. Everything must be done in moderation. Medical providers must be given training. Teachers must be restrained from recommending to parents or caregivers that an energetic student must be given medication.

    I also stated in my earlier posts that the worst offender is that doctors are given very short periods of time to see patients and to make decisions on what the best course of treatment plans are best suited for him or her. It is insurance companies that are calling the shots. That has got to stop. Many facilities that have the best programs of recovery and treatment are those who have teams that meet regarding patients but that takes time and effort and that costs money.

    It has been said that many problems in society would be solved if they just had money thrown at them. In this case it is time and information.

  216. @ Lori George Alexander

    Re: Jonah, it does win the debate in that Scientology has been proven not to use facts but a one sided argument that is not based on facts but on belief. That is not science.

    Please enlighten us by exposing exactly which facts are lies, in this particular documentary.

    This documentary is the start of a journey of knowledge and personal investigation for many people, into the topic, The Marketing of Madness. If someone is seriously interested in acquiring knowledge, they will view multiple and diverse sources of research/information, before passing any form of judgement. The CCHR is just one reference point, so criticizing Scientology is in fact a mute point.

    We are subjected to one sided arguments, bias and lies every day of our lives and as you know, financial interests and personal dependencies, are often driving forces.

  217. Jonah, it does win the debate in that Scientology has been proven not to use facts but a one sided argument that is not based on facts but on belief. That is not science.

    Yes, the Frontline report did present a very damning report because it presented facts that many doctors and other health care professionals blindly prescribe drugs one drug fits all instead of dealing with patients on an individual basis. It also showed that doctors are not trained in this area and are expected to deal with young patients as if they are.

    My point and the point of others is that there must be a middle road and that when a patient goes to a doctor he or she must be looked at as an individual and not a widget on an assembly line. Doctors, teachers, social workers must get adequate training to look at the people they work with on an individual basis and should be given enough information and TIME to do so. They are not at the present time. The name of the game is how much money can drug companies along with the medical professions are willing to make at the expense of the patients?

  218. first of all - people have to stop saying "scientology.", and act like that wins the debate. seriously! show me some facts to disprove the case presented in the doc.

    second - for anyone doubting the ghastly side effects psychiatric drugs have upon children in particular must see the PBS Frontline report , "the medicated child". not a stitch of scientology about it! ;)

  219. @Vlatko: Thank you very much for allowing my link through.

    @Posters: Please see my previous comment with the web link. This is a free educational site created by a close friend who lived a literal nightmare for years and has been healthy and drug free for the last 4 years. This may not be the solutoin for some but it very well could help you.

  220. @Flight 001

    Then I misunderstood your statement about homosexuality, I'm sorry.

    But as I said, always evolving...

    I am also of the older generation, I barely missed Vietnam by one year of age, and some student defferments, (sp?).

    And I agree with you. But when we were young, there were alot of psychiatric disorders that really needed pharmacological help that simply didn't exist yet. And out knowledge of the brain was still "evolving".

    Are Americans lazy whiners today? Yes SIR! I wrote a comment above about how regular excersise could solve a whole host of things people are on drugs for today...

    So, I think we agree more than disagree here...

  221. @ Randy

    My dentist gives me nitrous oxide gas for anxiety. It doesn't work very well sometimes, but that is all he will give anyone he says. I am very anxiouse at the dentist, to the point they can barely work on me. My mom is the dental hygenist and she gets angry with me about it, but I can't help it. All I can think of is them slipping off my tooth and cutting my gums really bad, or hitting a nerve that makes you crap your pants- which has happened several times.

    I am still staying clear of antidepressants and anxiety meds. Like we discussed earlier my depression is perfectly natural and should take care of itself. When dad does pass away, which may be sooner than I would like to admit, I don't know how I will handle it. I know I will be in a mess, but I suppose that is to be expected. I just can't imagine life without him, I love him more than I can say.

    At least he didn't pass before we had a chance to straighten out our relationship and he did get to see me get off all the drugs I used to be on. That, he says, has made him much more able to deal with knowing he can't be here for us forever. I think he was really scared of the fact that he didn't think I could take care of myself, muchless mom. I am glad i took the initiative to try and have a relationship with him and get my life straightened out. He is now my best friend as well as my dad. Thanks for your advise, it helped.

  222. @ Randy

    I have mentioned on two occasions the relevance of considering other countries/environments for a reason, especially poorer countries, where solutions are not driven by a profit motive and the disorders being nurtured and recognized by the west, don't even exist.

    Re: It’s not a disorder, it’s perfectly natural. Don’t be afraid of it. Repressing and denying it just leads to psychosis, substance abuse, depression, violence, etc. And that is dangerous for you and those around you.

    Chuckle Chuckle! I provide a simple example of how psychiatric attitudes have drastically changed towards homosexuality and are later invalidated and in return an opinion based on a standardized response is delivered, which is in fact, not relevant. Perhaps here lies the heart of the matter.

    Please note I am of the older generation, which is of significance. In our youth we were told simply "Get on Your Bike!" as a solution to many problems, including family, relationships and employment. Our actions always spoke far louder, than any words of complaint. Psychiatists were only used in extreme situations, in particular with the Perpetrators of Serious Violent Crimes and never for systematic psychiatric drugging and blatant abuse of adolescents/minors. Today, the opposite, is the case.

  223. Indeed, EZ.

    In one of our first exchanges I asked you to avoid anti-depressants as long as possible, even if a doctor prescribes them for you.

    Many of the more recent ones, Lexipro, and Abilify, seem to have little to no effect at all. I look at the studies and the numbers are ridiculous. But the early side effects are crazy-not-worth-it.

    Prosac and Zoloft had better numbers. But, I still like the old Valium family of drugs. Diazapam, Lorazipam, Zanex, that family of anti-anxiety drugs.

    Valium has been on the market for over 40 years. Plenty of testing showing it is effective and safe, (addictive YES, so only used sparingly...) We know exactly how they work, by blocking the fear receptors of the brain.

    I take it for dental anxiety. My dentist prescribes just three pills at a time. But, I tell ya, when that drill is whisking away at my tooth I have to surpress the urge to giggle.

    These drugs can get you over the tough places that cause you to be non-functional, (fear of flying, fear of public speaking, all the immediate fears that depression can cause...) but getting to the root problem is really the key.

  224. Come on now, you guys don't know it all no more than we who support the drugs do. No one has the right to tell others whether they should or should not take medicine. You do not need a medical degree to know that. Anti depressants are not narcotics and they do not cause the vast majority of those taking them to go nuts or be suicidal. These are very rare side effects that have been experienced by very few.

    Dont you guys feel there is much more important things to address in the health care system? Don't let the church of scientology set your priorities for you, they are known to hate phsycology and phsychiatry. I hardly think you can look to them or thier associates for a unbiased view of the situation.

  225. @Flight 001

    If you scroll up, you'll see a comment I made on conversion disorder that proves one of your points... also, I keep saying that the reason I dropped out of med school was because I saw the health care system in America going corrupt.

    That doesn't mean MEDICINE is wrong, just the accountants and politicians running it, now. It used to be run by doctors.

    And as far as homosexuality... they changed it, because they came to their senses. I said earlier all medicine evolves.

    But, I detect in you a case in my point. You distrust psychiatry, maybe, because of some repressed, latent homsexual panic?

    It's not a disorder, it's perfectly natural. Don't be afraid of it. Repressing and denying it just leads to psychosis, substance abuse, depression, violence, etc. And that is dangerous for you and those around you.

  226. @ RAndy

    It has been my experience, that anyone afraid of, or mistrustful of, psychiatry, is usually trying to hide something and is in most need of the profession...

    Oh Really! Let's not make a Mountain out of Molehill!

    Anorexia, bulimia and obesity does not exist in many countries nor do many of the conditions recognized and being treated for, by psychiatric drugs in the US and other western countries today. Why therefore do so many western countries have these serious psychiatric problems, which are not in fact present elsewhere?

    There was an era when homosexuality was a terrible sin, crime and a serious psychiatric disorder. Now consider what the motivation was for changing attitudes and ceasing to be disorder any further.

  227. I signed a non-disclosure agreement with The Church of Scientology when I worked for them in the 90's, so I can't go into any details, BUT:

    I know from personal experience that if The Church says something to you-- YOU SHOULD RUN AS FAR AWAY AS YOU CAN... then hide under something... with a weapon in your hand, in case they find you.

    Look, L. Ron Hubbard is a classic example of what I was talking about. He was quite insane, denied entry into the Navy because of his psych tests... and thereafter always held a seething, burning resentment/hatred of the psychiatric profession.

    That's as far as I will go...

    And as far as everyone else's ideas on my comments... I would ask, when did you go to medical school? 'Cause I went from '85-'87, granted, it wasn't a GREAT medical school... but it was acredited, held to AMA scrutiny... and I dropped out because of the changing health care system, (and my struggles with chemistry...), but I did learn a great deal and I keep up with the literature... so...

  228. It does nòt matter 'who' brings the message (whether scientologists, methodologists, ecologists, give it a name, any 'gist') -- it's important to realize that the info in the documentary is most likely the ugly truth.

  229. randy how is it known for sure that there is a physiological problem causing bi polar? what tests can be done to confirm? I've read a few theories but it seems that all genetic profiling, brain scans and things like that come up pretty inconclusive, is there something I'm unaware of?
    either way as you pointed out a ridiculously huge majority of bi polar diagnosis are due to other factors in a persons life, like I'd be willing to bet more than 99%, these scientology docs are far too one sided and doomsdayish but TBH probably more accurate than anything that tries to be balanced and not to outlandish, because the perception of mental illness is so completely backwards that you pretty much have to completely ignore the generally accepted 'facts' about it (for example genetic problems cause disruptions in brain chemistry = mental = take drugs forever) to get closer to the truth

  230. All medicine has had a horrifying evolution, and psychiatry is no exception.

    As late as the 19th century they were still doing surgery without anesthetic. Wide awake surgery! And what will really burn your buscuit is they were doing it for years after Ether was discovered as an effective method for pain-free surgery... why? Because using Ether would be against god's will...

    But, medicine is a human thing. It evolves, it gets better. It refines it's methods and its tools.

    Next point, CCHR was bought out by Scientology years ago. That's what they do, they buy out organizations that seem innocuous and "puppetmaster" them so you can't see them coming. Slippery buggers...

    Last point, true Bi-Polar disorder is very rare, very serious, and is caused by an organic imbalance in the brain and does not resolve itself without intervention. There is no cure. Just treatment.

    As I said in many posts above, it is my limited, but educated, medical opinion, that the huge numbers of Bi-Polar diagnoses going around these last few years, are bad/lazy diagnoses.

    It has been my experience, that anyone afraid of, or mistrustful of, psychiatry, is usually trying to hide something and is in most need of the profession...

  231. @Princeton --
    Hear! Hear! Very well said. Thanks!

  232. The makers of the film are as follows: This is from their website...

    "Welcome to Citizens Committee on Human Rights Australia

    Who is CCHR

    CCHR's Headquarters
    CCHR International headquarters in Los Angeles, California
    The Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR) is a non-profit, public benefit organization dedicated to investigating and exposing psychiatric violations of human rights. It also ensures that criminal acts within the psychiatric industry are reported to the proper authorities and acted upon.

    Dr. Thomas Szasz
    Dr. Thomas Szasz
    CCHR was founded in 1969 by the Church of Scientology and the internationally acclaimed author, Dr. Thomas Szasz, Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry at the State University of New York, Syracuse. At that time, the victims of psychiatry were a forgotten minority group, warehoused under terrifying conditions in institutions around the world. Because of this, CCHR penned a Mental Health Declaration of Human Rights that has served as its guide for mental health reform.

    Acknowledged by the Special Rapporteur to the United Nations Human Rights Commission as responsible for “many great reforms” that protect people from psychiatric abuse, CCHR has documented thousands of individual cases that demonstrate psychiatric drugs and often-brutal psychiatric practices create insanity and cause violence. A major cause of the drug problem worldwide is the psychiatrist, who for decades has used his influence as a medical doctor to push extremely dangerous and addictive mind-altering drugs on persons of all ages—some as young as one year old.

    Since 1969, CCHR’s work has helped to save the lives of millions and prevented needless suffering for millions more. Many countries have now mandated informed consent for psychiatric treatment and the right to legal representation, advocacy, recourse and compensation for patients. In some countries, the use of psychosurgery and electroshock on children is banned.

    While CCHR does not provide medical or legal advice, it works closely with attorneys and medical doctors and supports medical, but not psychiatric, practices.

    One of CCHR’s primarily concerns with psychiatry is its unscientific diagnostic system. Unlike medical diagnosis, psychiatrists categorize symptoms only, not disease. Jeffrey A. Schaler, Ph.D., says, “The notion of scientific validity, though not an act, is related to fraud. Validity refers to the extent to which something represents or measures what it purports to represent or measure. When diagnostic measures do not represent what they purport to represent, we say that the measures lack validity...The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM-IV) published by the American Psychiatric Association…is notorious for low scientific validity.”

    Understanding this fraudulent diagnostic premise, we can see why psychiatry and psychology, entrusted with billions of dollars to eradicate the problems of the mind, have created and perpetuated them. Their drug panaceas cause senseless acts of violence, suicide, sexual dysfunction, irreversible nervous system damage, hallucinations, apathy, irritability, anxiousness, psychosis and death. And with virtually unrestrained psychiatric drugging of so many of our schoolchildren, it is no surprise that the largest age group of murderers today are our 15-to-19-year-olds.

    CCHR’s members include prominent doctors, lawyers, artists, educators, civil and human rights representatives and professionals who see it as their duty to “expose and help abolish any and all physically damaging practices in the field of mental healing.” They work to accomplish these clearly stated aims with many like-minded individuals and groups, including politicians, teachers, health professionals, government and law enforcement officers and media.

    Today, 133 chapters strong in 34 countries, CCHR has established itself as a powerful human rights advocacy group and each year presents its Human Rights Awards to individuals who display exemplary courage in the worldwide fight for the restoration of basic human rights in the mental health area. "

  233. google the doco's name. It's made by the scientologists.

  234. its all about the money!!! think they give a f@#$ about us??? hell no! they making the money while they get rid of you..depopulation!!

  235. @Princeton -
    Well put! Exactly what I was thinking. Seems like an awful lot of blind, reactionary statements with absolutely nothing to back them up. Give me an factual basis to disbelieve the evidence provided in this documentary, rather than simply spewing unfounded, uneducated opinions.

  236. Dreadfully slow and unbalanced, but it would be hard to easily dismiss the claims.

  237. Mental illness or that broad category includes many things that can or can't be helped by medication. The trick is for a medical care worker to think individually here and to look at all aspects of the individual. For example, some people were helped by the removal of an impacted tooth, some by the removal of the patient from their family of origin and others by their taking medications.

    House is a program on TV that I have watched from time to time when I am in the US and the team makes an effort to look at all aspects of a patient's life to make a diagnois that is based on reality. I realize that HOUSE is a fantasy and no one ever says who pays for such expensive treatment. It should not be a fantasy but a reality.

    Again, the documentary in question takes a stand that all medication is bogus and that is simply not true. You have to take the middle road and look at the patient individually which the film does not and neither do most doctors.

  238. To those on the site who suffer bi polar disorder. A good friend of mine also suffered this and went down the medication road until it lead right into a brick wall. He has since done a ton of research and has embarked on a self help as well as a help others program that turned his life right back around. I will post a link to his website in the next post. I deeply respect Vlatko and his site so don't wish to take advantage in any way. I am not trying to advertise for anyone just to raise awareness. If he does not allow it through moderation I will not be upset nor should you. it is a fine line between free comentary and spam city lol.

  239. Why isn't this doc aired on prime time TV?

  240. There is conflict of interest in many types of research, medicine certainly not exempt. Certain people get paid to represent a "brand" to peddle to the masses to make certain companies big $. That is fact!

    You can do your own research to follow up on other concerns you have for this doc. but should my first paragraph not say enough to at least make everyone cautious at what they take at face value? I'm not qualified in anything but I know how capitalism works and what money and power does to people. Perhaps there is a pill to reduce ones dependence on money...?

  241. Hell.
    All the entire world is corrupted.
    I had enough experiences that force me to believe in this documentary, at least they do not charge any fee, and i do not see how it will promote some new product.
    And thanks me to ever rejected any medicine -> drugs.

  242. Very disappointing. This is not a documentary, it is an advertisement for scientology with some very dangerous and completely false information. If you think you'd like to talk to Tom Cruise about medicine and pharmacology, this commercial is for you.

  243. Frank, I don't like the documentary but have to disagree with you on the x-ray for schizophrenia thing. Yes, there is some validity to that. There are more than a few studies of that and I don't know where your training is or how recent but it is there.

  244. Don't know where to start in tearing apart this joke of a video..false information being spewed out from the very start of this propaganda presentation, skewed facts, half truths, blatant lies, selective interviewing, dismissal of serious illnesses as simple emotions, encouraging sick people to stay off their medicine?? Makes me sick..i've more experience in this field than anyone on that "documentary" or any of these other half-witted loudmouths blabbering out their all-important and defintive views on what they 'feel' is right or wrong, black or white..There is no black and white..there is no x-ray for schizophrenia...Use your fickle minds

  245. Where do we get these placebos?

  246. I'm not for Scientology and don't care that they co-founded the organization that put out this well researched and documented film.. I don't see anyone refuting any of their arguments or evidence, just simply mouthing the same platitudes as the doctors and industry this filmed was aimed to discredit. if you got some hard science to disprove the points they raise, then by all means, but don't just say "propaganda."
    Personally I would never take any anti-depressant/anxiety or whatever else pills.. too much evidence pointing at the fact that they will do more harm than good, and no one is arguing the fact that those medications only mask symptoms as opposed to cure anything (that's y u can't get off em like antibiotics or other meds, just keep poppin' and poppin' till ya drop or ur liver fails)
    I've had my fair share of anxiety and depression, but i do not believe for one second that those medications will make anything better in the long run, but just reduce my lifespan and allow me to keep ignoring my real problems as they get worse. we all know pain killers help soothe pain, but that is only supposed to be until u remove underlying cause of pain so u no longer need painkillers.. i don't see the same thing with these meds. for those with problems please look up the research and positive results of psycho-therapy (yes i said it, talk therapy) work out your problems, get self-knowledge and understanding, don't just drown yourself in liver toxic, self erasure pills.

    1. I went mad on Seroxat (paxil) and needed Risperidone and Zoplicone in order to 'come down' and sleep in the evening. After 5 years I overdosed and two weeks later began 4 weeks of brain sweats. All evidence of mania caused by Seroxat and my subsequent overdose and cold turkey has been removed from my general medical/psychiatric notes. And we give these people, who accept money from drug companies to push their poorly researched products, power to make judgements about our personalities....? Now that is insane and I wont be doing that EVER again...rather talk to Jesus

  247. Here's something interesting, maybe:

    I saw a doc awhile ago that intrigued me, and seemed to confirm something I always suspected. I make no claims, I have not studied the veracity of the filmmakers' claims, I can't even remember the name. Perhaps Vlatko could help me out there...

    It was about the recent, apparent, epidemic of depression in Japan. A country that didn't get depressed even after a couple of atomic bombs were dropped on them! They just dusted themselves off, got to work, and became an econmic power a few years later... (love Japan...)

    Anyways, the doc seemed to show, that this depression epidemic didn't surface until anti-dpressant drugs were permitted to be advertised on Japanese TV and other media...


    Anyone know what "conversion disorder" is? Look it up, it's a fun thing to study!

  248. @Capricious

    You are on the right track, but you got some of your info wrong.

    Around the time that pharma companies and medical systems were allowed to advertise, (they never could back in my day, it was illegal--- Reagan/Bush fixed that...), the FDA began to be gradually stripped of power and staff.

    Now, they are legally toothless and there are like, six people there, with one rubber stamp that says, "APPROVED", (exxagerated to make a point).

    It used to take as much as 5 years for a new drug to be approved, now the average is 6 months.

    Just for greed. So that pharma could make more money fast. In their defense, they did employ thousand upon thousands of people and helped to create our booming economy in the 90's... *shrug*

    A doctor that is getting paid a big kickback to prescribe a pill, will do so, as long as he knows from the chart that it will not harm the patient. It may not actually have any real EFFECT, but what heck? It won't hurt, either. Hey, he's got big bills to pay, like you point out.

    Your statement about critical thought is absolutely true, but you need a little more facts and some experience to make the critical thought work.

  249. And something that hasn't been mentioned yet:

    Scientology seems to think that the sole motivation for all of this is simply money. As if a medical psychiatrist who has spent 12+ years of their life going through college, which required a monetary investment of generally a quarter million dollars at minimum. These people charge a MINIMUM of $50 per hour alone just to talk to these folks. Now tell me, if you're in a position making a minimum of $50/hr and likely have a $250k debt behind you, would you risk your entire career prescribing drugs that clearly didn't need to be?


    A little critical thinking will help anyone see beyond the bull*ish.

  250. CCHR is who funded this documentary, and is a Scientology organization. This is most certainly propaganda.

    However, with that said, I did watch the entire thing and I don't think there is anyone who can deny that there is SOME REMOTE validity to what they say. The critical element of their argument that shoots itself in the foot is that not everyone (or even half of the general public) see psychiatrists. That is something you do SOLELY on your own. That would be like making people who produce homeopathy products sound like they're all secretly serial killers who get their jolly's off slowly killing you.

    The DSM isn't "scientific" as in backed by physical evidence, but what do these people think, that we just put some random chemicals together in a pill, call it magic and that's it? In order for drugs to get through the FDA (at least these days) it's pretty damn difficult. The FDA themselves have a huge portion of liability if a drug should, say, caused thousands of people to commit suicide.

  251. too many comments to read all of them just now but I'd like to say to Joe that anti depressants didn't help your life at all, they just helped you stop thinking about how s@#$ your life is.

    If your life is only s@#$ because you think negatively too much, even though you don't have much reason to, and it affects you going about ordinary business, then they may have been sort of useful in the short term but not really effective in getting to the source of the problem - why you are so negative about life in the first place.

    Another possibility is that your life really is complete s@#$ and you have good reason to be depressed, maybe you are really a horrible person and you have to sort yourself out but never will because you assume you only feel like that because of some make believe disease, then take drugs to not feel like that any more which of course doesn't help either in the long run.

    I feel I need to explain myself further, I'm not qualified in any way but have always had an interest in psychology and used to read my mothers books on it when she was doing a psych diploma, I would study psychology and do something in that area for a living but I feel it would be too frustrating for me because the basic understanding of mental illness is completely wrong, couldn't be any more wrong.

    I 'suffer' from pretty serious 'depression', any doctor in the world would prescribe me anti depressants, but through years of what you might call soul searching I've been realizing that I felt as though no one liked me mostly because no one really like me very much, I felt misunderstood because no one made any effort to understand me because no one liked me very much, and no one liked me very much because I was basically an a@@#$%&. I used to feel like the world would be better off without me and although its sad to say, I was absolutely right.

    I've sort of realized all these things in bits and pieces and started to understand the factors in my life that led to me becoming what i was, its been absolutely f@#$&*$ horrible, I constantly have extreme anxiety and worry that I'm still doing the same things that got me to that state, or that even though I feel Ive changed a lot maybe the people close to me still hold the image of what I used to be, but despite of all that the scariest thing to me is the thought that I might have been given some kind of drugs when I was a teenager that would've stopped me from getting into the state of mind that helped me realize all these horrible things about myself.

    In summary, extreme depression is the most powerful tool to treat extreme depression, if you just try to block out that state of mind you never make any real progress.

    Just to be clear I'm not saying my situation applies to everyone, but with pretty much all mental illness there are factors that are much more important and difficult to deal with than brain chemistry, drugs are a temporary solution to a permanent problem.

    1. I went mad on Seroxat (paxil) and needed Risperidone and Zoplicone in order to 'come down' and sleep in the evening. After 5 years I overdosed and two weeks later began 4 weeks of brain sweats. All evidence of mania caused by Seroxat and my subsequent overdose and cold turkey has been removed from my general medical/psychiatric notes. And we give these people who accept money from drug companies to push their badly tested drugs power to make judgements about our personalities....? Now that is insane

  252. Oh, sorry to keep blathering, but I just thought of another point that I think is key...

    There is another aspect to this, that is NOT the fault of the American Health Care Factory, at all. Lazy Americans.

    I mentioned regular excersise, above, and it put me in mind of something I learned and have experienced personally.

    The best cure for mild to moderate depression, and indeed, many minor mental and bodily health problems, frankly, is reagular excersise.

    But, that takes effort and time, and Americans want "The Quick Fix!". Give me a pill, I gotta get healthy quick! I got Reality TV to watch!

    So, quite a bit of the problems with our horrible health care industry is really... you know... our fault... sorry.

    *Randy raises shields against incoming fire storm*

  253. @Linda

    Thank you for sharing that with us. It was a brave story, and it sounded like you did the right things and I am glad you are doing better! I want to say something, but I do not want you to think I am aiming it at you, your condition is obviously genuine, from what I read there. Plus, I am a Yank, so I only speak for my own country...

    In America, I have been noticing a disturbing trend in Psycho-therapy and even general practice. I do have some doctor friends and we talk about it from time to time.

    The "Bi-Polar" diagnosis is becoming the newest "catch-all" for the lazy-greedy doctors/pharma/health-care factory.

    In my day, in medical school, it was called "Manic-Depression" and had very clear characteristics and physical symptoms. Like Linda spoke of, it usually ended in psychotic breaks from reality, and when the manic phase was over, nearly catotonic depression.

    These days, many young people, fresh from the storms of puberty, (mid to late twenties, yes it can last that long), are diagnosed with Bi-Polar Syndrome, when a better diagnosis would be, in my opinion, hormonal imbalances.

    But, hormonal imbalances are more difficult to pin-point, test for, and treat, and certainly not as profitable. Plus, they usually resolve themselves all on their own, (the best treatment? Regular, strenuous, excersise, low to zero fat diet, with little to no meats, for 6 to 8 weeks... but there is no money in that...)

    Again, I say clearly and for the record, I know Bi-Polar Syndrome exists, I know what causes it-- it is very serious and MUST be treated with appropriate drugs. But, stats show there are so many Bi-Polar victims in America, it's totally blowing the Bell Curve! That really can't happen... mathematically... something else has to be going on...

  254. 'My sister in law was a diagnosed schizophrenic, she was on harsh lithium meds for years,.. but when a naturopathic dietician suggested that she remove all forms of artificial sweeteners from her diet,..'

    Lithium for schizophrenia ? By itself ? Very strange ... its primarily for Bi-Polar conditions I thought.

    I'm sorry but I simply don't believe that artificial sweeteners have such drastic effects !

  255. @420 Vision
    No, I do not represent a pharmaceutical company nor is my god Thimerosal (in my opinion the whole 'god' thing is for weakminded people only, so don't even bother). This doc is produced by a very scary cult, and it only serves as a means of propagating their (ridiculous) view of psychiatry and pharmaceuticals.

    Is Xenu your god?

  256. @ Linda McGuigan - nothing negative from me, ma'am. Even though we're anonymous via the web, it takes courage to post such facts. FWIW, I was also diagnosed with BPD years ago. Spent 28 months in counseling and taking things such as Wellbutrin, Zoloft, Sinequan (sp) and a few other meds in the SSRI category. None of them "really" helped so I withdrew from the program and started researching for myself.

    I'll suggest to you also, look closely at your diet. Improving my diet has made a huge difference in my quality of life.

    FYI, whatever you're taking be extremely careful if later you opt to get off the meds. I took a big risk quitting the SSRI's cold turkey.

    Best of luck to you, ma'am. XoXo

    Also, FWIW, here in the states. The big pharma companies first invent the medicine then they invent the disease it'll cure. At least it seems that way. It'd be interesting to know what percentage of air time, pharma adverts take out of the day.

  257. It is neither here nor there, who actually made this documentary, if the producers are actually presenting thought provoking Facts of relevance and the other side of an argument, which the pharmaceutical industry clearly does not want, in their self serving pursuit of profits, expansion and recognition.

    Adults are really revealing their lack of emotional development and maturity today as it is, in numerous environmental and social situations. Too often we see someone resorting to medicated control of their reactions, instead of a mature healthy approach of mind over matter and independent control and resolution, of reasonably simple problems.

    There is a lot to be said about viewing less developed countries and their natural resolution of the ills, which are being nurtured and treated by medication, in the western world today.

  258. I knew right away that this documennary was propaganda, I have bi-polar and I know the differance between being well and being ill. I live in Scotland and we dont get commercial's for prescription drug's here only over the counter one's. I spent 23 months of my life in a severe depressive state and could not be left on my own for the fear of what I might do then to my self I never wanted to harm other's I started a new antipycotic's and once again I feel "normal" so imho these drugs work I for one never want to go back to that place my head was in then.
    Please guy's no negative comments as this took a lot for me to comment. These thought's are my own.

  259. Very disturbing info -- but something I 'knew' in my gut to be true all along.

  260. My sister in law was a diagnosed schizophrenic, she was on harsh lithium meds for years,.. but when a naturopathic dietician suggested that she remove all forms of artificial sweeteners from her diet,.. she became quite normal and is now no longer taking any meds for her pre-condition. A remarkable transistion.

    ATTENTION all ye guys and gals with brains and merrit: Here is an simple rule to follow that will let you know when counter-intelligence is at work.... IGNORE THE FIRST FEW POSTS THAT ARE MADE WHEN A DOCUMENTARY SUCH AS THIS IS POSTED.

    @RazorDiamond and @Neilsch ,... so which pharmaceutical company do you both work for ? Is Thimerosal your GOD !

  261. @Zardoz, Psychiatry and Psychology are based on science. they both use the scientific method and empirical observation based studies and experiments.

  262. 'Who benefits from all these prescriptions?'

    People with serious mental illness - perhaps.

    Try true clinical depression , bi-polar disorder, let alone schizophrenia on for size.

    Mental illness of course doesn't exist for adherents of Scientology (honestly - could they come up with a lamer name ?).

  263. 'pseudoscience of psychiatry ' you do understand the difference between Psychiatry and Psychology don't you ?

    Certainly most Psychiatry is based on hard science ...

  264. This film is an over-simplification of a serious problem involving human behavior. I took a tour of the now defunct sections of the Topeka State Hospital years ago in Kansas when I was a journalist. They had chains on the wall where they kept people chained up for hours as they screamed and yelled. That doesn't happen anymore because of the drugs that people are taking; however the doctors do over-medicate. This film takes a serious problem and hits it with a sledge hammer again and again.

    I am glad someone did some investigating of who the people are who made this film. I think it is useless and should be taken off.

  265. Scientology propaganda? Translated from Spanish? Could it be that the pharmaceutical & psychiatric industries are much like the oil industry or the illegal drug industry? Who benefits from all these prescriptions? Have those that stand to make massive profits ever cared about the common person? Ever?

    Please think

  266. Yeah well Scientology may be a dangerous cult but it doesn't hold a candle to the wholesale carpet bombing wreaked upon society by the hideous, greed-soaked pseudoscience of psychiatry and it's bogus medical model of mental illness.

  267. This is what I found out about the creators of this documentary when I looked them up. This is a direct quote from their site "

    Who is CCHR
    The Citizens Commission on Human Rights (CCHR) (In Australia Citizens Committee on Human Rights Inc)is a non-profit, public benefit organization dedicated to investigating and exposing psychiatric violations of human rights. It also ensures that criminal acts within the psychiatric industry are reported to the proper authorities and acted upon. CCHR was founded in 1969 by the Church of Scientology and the internationally acclaimed author, Dr. Thomas Szasz, Professor Emeritus of Psychiatry at the State University of New York, Syracuse."........

    So it is CONFIRMED that it is a Scientology documentary. Great effort though, they are probably the worst for exploiting peoples mental vulnerability for profits. If they can explain how the cross is relevant to their religion that would be a breakthrough as well.

  268. Unfortunately with everyone out to make a buck - over prescription and the constant 'discovery' of new syndromes is an inevitably.

  269. My GF is a consultant Psychiatrist and chooses to work for public practise here in New Zealand rather than anything private.

    If she is wary of the American penchant for over prescription and labelling, she is even less interested in the US system of 'managed care'.

    Thank God we have a free mental heath system available to all.

  270. @Randy
    1st comment: LOL
    2nd comment: interesting!

  271. Yes, Vonnegut... that sounds more like it, actually...

    I was also going to say Arthur C. Clark who was a friend of Philip K's but did not like L. Ron, so... I don't see him sitting around getting drunk with him...

  272. Kurt Vonnegut I think ...

  273. Jeeze, Vlatko! It's just the guys name! Allow me to edit it for you...

    @Eugene Huston


    There was an urban legend of sorts going around back in the 70's, maybe you heard about it. It goes something like this:

    L. Ron Hubbard, Philip K. D*ck and Robert Heinlein (? not sure about the third sci-fi writer), were hanging out in a hotel bar in California, some publishers convention, I think. And getting drunk, like ya do...

    At one point they were talking about the ridiculousness of religion and how it was all man-made, etc... like ya do...

    L. Ron bet the other two that he could create a religion that would rival christianity in 20 years, (this apparently took place in the late 50's).

    Well, the rest is history, as they say. Now, Philip K. D*ck swore it was true until the day he died, but the other sci-fi writer always said he didn't remember it, (if it was Heinlein as I suspect, he was probably pretty well blacked out by then...)

    They never hung out with Hubbard again once he started Scientology, but, there ya go...

    Don't know if it is true, but it was pretty much gospel among us sci-fi nerds back in the day...

  274. @Eugene Huston


    There was an urban legend of sorts going around back in the 70's, maybe you heard about it. It goes something like this:

    L. Ron Hubbard, Philip K. Dick and Robert Heinlein (? not sure about the third sci-fi writer), were hanging out in a hotel bar in California, some publishers convention, I think. And getting drunk, like ya do...

    At one point they were talking about the ridiculousness of religion and how it was all man-made, etc... like ya do...

    L. Ron bet the other two that he could create a religion that would rival christianity in 20 years, (this apparently took place in the late 50's).

    Well, the rest is history, as they say. Now, Philip K. Dick swore it was true until the day he died, but the other sci-fi writer always said he didn't remember it, (if it was Heinlein as I suspect, he was probably pretty well blacked out by then...)

    They never hung out with Hubbard again once he started Scientology, but, there ya go...

    Don't know if it is true, but it was pretty much gospel among us sci-fi nerds back in the day...

  275. All because their barefaced Messiah - Hubbard - was laughed out of academia because of his quack theories.
    He really should have stuck to writing B-grade science fiction, and if it wasn't for his greed and egotism he might well have.

    What a bitter and utterly vindictive - 'religion'.

    Projection is obviously a psychological term that these clowns haven't embraced.

  276. In the not so distant past, Mental illness was diagnosed to treat debilitating and/or life threatening conditions.

    Most diagnosed would have likely spent time in a psychiatric ward, attempted suicide, exerienced a pychotic break ect.. In other words (sic) "people sick enough to be a non-funtioning burden to society".

    Because there HAVE been advances in pharmacuetial management of what used to be unmanagable symptoms, there are approriate and life saving benefits to medication.

    If the benefit of the drug outwieghs the risk of mental disintegration, living as a non-funtioning member of society, or death (side effects included) so be it.

    An entirely different issue is the Predatory Corporation, interested in anyone with a wallet and a television.

    In my opinion, this is a double whammy Scientologist marketing ploy, weaving 2 unrelated issues into one.

    -Certainly experts at exploiting vulnerable, at risk populations.

  277. I honestly dont know enough abuut brain chemisty, but it always seemed more logical to me that depression sounds more like a natural reaction to an unhealthy/unatural environment then an actual illness. I have been through depression when I was younger and I always associated it with the loss of my innocence and the realisation of the unfair, illogical way our world really works, and whenever someone would tell me I'm sick I'd nod and grin thinking "You're the one that's either sick or blissfully ignorant."
    I DID NOT take pills to get out of it, I simply changed my lifestyle and ended up just reminding myself how little our petty problems matter in the grand scheme of things. I refused the pills not because I thought they wouldn't work or because of the potential side effects, but simply because I dont think forced happyness can be real. I didn't wanna stop being angry because I didn't wanna stop thriving for change. I still fail to see the difference between escaping the world with prozzac and escaping it with crack.

    That being said, of course there are some extreme and legitimate cases, I'm not putting everyone in the same boat.

  278. ben stain would've been jealous of the writer's inventiveness ! :D :D :D

    and I just watched part 1 !!!

  279. this doc is the disorder ! Disinformational abuse disorder (DAD) lol, c'mon, if you studies a bit of psychology - you'd know there are disorders and there are sadness and shyness. Of course you'd expect consumerism would always take things for granted..

  280. @Joe

    I don't think anyone here ever said, I know I didn't, that anti-depressants were completely useless... in fact I know they help some people. We are just saying they are OVER prescribed.

    Anti-depressants should really not be a multi-billion dollar a year industry... if we really have that many non-functional depressed people in this country (USA) then we are in worse trouble than I always thought we were.


    I agree in part, but, as I said above, it's more about lazy and greedy than conspiracy. They just don't try to get to the real problem, they use the quickest diagnosis and "NEXT..."

    The average doctor visit in America lasts 18 seconds, not including the time reading the chart... but most doctors diagnose right off the chart these days...

  281. @ Reasons Voice
    Well put man, While I know that some people need and benefit from these drugs, they are over prescribed. Case in point, ADHD, first "diagnosed" around 1987. Now over two million children in the US are prescribed medication for "ADHD".
    I get the impression that drug companies look for illnesses as much as for cures.

  282. Anyone who buys this garbage is out of their minds. As someone who has personally been helped incredibly by an antidepressant I know the benefits of them and know for a fact it is more than just some kind of placebo affect. Painkillers are shown to have a the same kind placebo affect yet it's known and accepted that they actually do effect brain chemistry. The vast majority of the scientific community acknowledges the benefits of antidepressants and other drugs. Take the mentally ill off their meds and see what happens, I dare you. Virtually every study that has been done to disprove drug effectiveness is based on an agenda rather than fact. Shame on anyone who disregards the validity of depression or most other mental illnesses that seriously hurt those who suffer from them. It's easy to say "you're just sad, be happier" harder to live it. Also- to say that because some may be misdiagnosed means that nobody should be diagnosed is ludicrous. The few who are misdiagnosed won't be killed by trying something new and those who rely on their drugs could potentially harm themselves if taken off of them. It blows my mind that this is even an issue and people make it their mission to stop people from helping themselves.

  283. Oh, and to answer the question posed in the title of the doc:

    Yes. Absolutely. No doubt. We are all insane.

    But, that's cool, as long as we admit it and work with it, instead of trying to repress it and deny it.

    That leads to the bell tower with the high-powered rifle, wearing mommy's underwear and granny's wig, singing, "JESUS LOVES ME-- THIS I KNOW...!!!!" at the top of your lungs.

  284. It's true-- this has the greasy fingerprints of Scientology all over it. I know them well...

    However, I will agree that psychiatry does jump to drugs too quickly nowadays. But, that is simply the result of the same lazy greed that MOST American doctors have fallen to, and not a conspiracy.

    IF got a HUGE kickback for pushing a pill rather than taking the time and effort to actually diagnose someone, you might do the same... especially with the pressure many doctors are under these days to "treat 'em and street 'em" just to save the hospital systems' money.

    One of the reasons I dropped out of medical school... well, that and chemistry kicked my butt! Couldn't pass a test there to save my life...!

  285. @EZ: I agree to an extent. I have worked in and around psychiatric facilities for many years. It is very true there are some patients who benefit from medications and can not fuction without them. However while there are scammers that seek meds, the majority of those on these meds do not seek them nor do they need them. The best treatment for depression is a better life, we can not bottle that so we numb them instead. As to ADHD, The criteria for this condition is so arbitrary it should be criminal. "well my son here gets Cs in class all he wants to do is run around on the play ground all day" Rittalin. Ummmm if wanting to play with friends instead of sit inside and learn about sin cosin and tangent is a sickness 99.9% of every kid in every town is chronicly ill. And if everyone who feels bummed out going to a dead end job that they hate every day is a disease... well you get my point. Botom line for many psychiatric patients is life. Sometimes life stinks, you feel bad, get over it and find what makes you happy. And for the kids, I had a sure fire cure for my "ADHD" it was called dicipline in my home and my school. If I act out in class and get bad grades life can get exponentially worse in a hurry. So guess what I payed attention.

  286. While I will agree that we do turn to drugs too quickly, this is not a honest representation of the situation. Sure, alot of people get misdiagnosed, most of which are intentionally seeking drugs. But a few get the proper medications for issues that have plagued their life for years. There is definitely reason to audit this process I will say that, but we must be objective about it.

    We could say the same for a lot of medical situations. Alot of people get misdiagnosed for pain as well. They get heavy narcotics by intentionally fooling the doctors, we dont say pain management is a sham because of this. We shouldn't anyway, pain is real and needs treatment. Alot of mental conditions they name in this doc are real, and need treatment.

    We should stop diagnosing temporary conditions as long term mental illness, thats a good start. Do more drug testing on people recieving narcotics, pill counts in the middle of the month. We can police the situation and still treat people that truley need it. I hope this is what they do any way, I know too many that have benifitted through treatment of real conditions, with and without drugs.

    Drugs are not always bad, you should see the people I am reffering to when they are off their meds. Just like they where before they started taking them, wrecked. Unable to function in society, leading to seclusion and a further deterioration of sanity. They spiral down into a madness, its pitiful. We should not take their treatment just to weed out a percentage that most often are gaming the system. Even if it is a large precentage, in my opinion.

  287. And no I am not a scientologist nor do I agree with them lol.

  288. This just reaffirms my feelings on this matter. And before anyone gets all over me for saying that, Placebos work too. So yes I am glad your meds "work" for you and hope they go on doing so. However the overdiagnosis and overmedication of people in this world is crazier than than the "patients" they "treat".

  289. Yup, scientology propoganda... Same as 'psychatry, a industry of death', what a joke :P

  290. Scientoligy propaganda, ridiculous simplistics and a total lack of effort...