Money as Debt 3: Evolution Beyond Money

2011, Economics  -   51 Comments
Ratings: 5.13/10from 60 users.

Money as Debt 3: Evolution Beyond MoneyThis third and final movie in the Money as Debt trilogy presents a comprehensive picture of how "money" could work in the future.

It is a blueprint full of surprising specifics for creating a whole new system applied with technologies that exist right now.

Money as Debt 3 demonstrates in simple terms why our primitive concept of money as a "single uniform commodity" is the ROOT cause of money system dysfunction and a major factor in economic and political injustice. There is now, and there has long been, an alternative way to do "money".

Money as Debt 3: Evolution Beyond Money illustrates in extensive and entertaining detail, how a fundamental change in our long-held concept of money, paired with recent breakthroughs in technology opens the door to a self-generating, self-balancing and sustainable global "money" backed by REAL VALUE and OPEN to ALL.

You might also want to watch Money as Debt 1 and Money as Debt 2: Promises Unleashed.

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51 Comments / User Reviews

  1. DustUp

    Now if only @Yeung Xiao and @rtiom above (and probably others) could understand @KDanagger above. Well said KD. I've said same in a more long winded way commenting on some other vids, where some cannot seem to think past what they have been indoctrinated with via school(influence by bankster loot) and media(owned by the collectivist banksters). Unfortunately they will have to bone up on how to deal with solid skull syndrome (ego) first. Inherent in far too many is that "knowing" that what they "know" must be correct or their whole world view is bankrupt. Capitalism has long proved its point as a marvelous antidote to Marxism, Socialism, Communism, Fascism, Progressivism, Corporatism, all being variations of Collectivism.

    Can there be corruption in Capitalism? Sure. Does that automatically infer that some other system such as Socialism has none or less so? Not one bit, quite the opposite in fact. Corruption is MUCH easier via Socialism. Look around. We have had incremental socialism and/or progressivism and corporatism eating away at capitalism since Woodrow Wilson and the Federal Reserve.

  2. Fred

    Great explnation, amaizing warning..... something is coming and is very big..... usd became de international fiat money and there no way to paid all the debt created to date.

    We need to be prepare to live extraordinary times ahead.

  3. juand

    i really like money as a debt 1 and 2. i hope this one is good to.

  4. fender24

    "If all the bank loans were paid up, no one would have a bank deposit, and there would not be a dollar of currency or coin in circulation. This is a staggering thought. We are completely dependent on the commercial banks for our money. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the banks create ample synthetic money, we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system. When one gets a complete grasp upon the picture, the tragic absurdity of our hopeless position is almost incredible - but there it is. It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it is widely understood and the defects remedied very soon." - Robert H. Hemphill, Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta
    In order to give a full meaning to the quote above, it is essential to mention that it applies to any 'fiat' currency, not just the US Dollar. Fiat money's value is backed by confidence in the economy and covered by the government which decrees it to have value - and more importantly (here comes the devious twist) is also backed by a promise to pay! So, let's stress it again: not only the banknotes remain in our wallets at the condition we pay them back but will retain their value as long as we are able to take on debts. How confident are you in 'a piece of paper' that is worth less that it's printed on, because it is the strict bottom line as Former Fed. Reserve Chairman Paul Volcker puts it in 'The Ascent of Money', a pbs. org video at 17:36 min. Such a concept is repellent to the mind because if we give it a thought, we begin to perceive the illusion we live in - to feel like our spiritual self and our hyper-materialistic driven environment are set for a inevitable collision course.

    USA have to return to the constitutional system which was abandoned in 1933. Thomas Jefferson said that all money will be redeemed either in gold or silver. And that is why our Founding Fathers put into the Constitution a provision which states;

    That no State shall make anything but gold and silver as payment of debt. (Our former Silver Certificate were fully redeemed in silver on deposit in the U.S. finance department It was good value. As was the gold note. Both were honored by the request. But our current Federal Reserve Notes can not be redeemed because the issuers do not want to give something of value to them).

  5. Righer Zack

    Bitcoin solves much of this since its the worlds first dept free money, and money with a transparent supply for the full lifetime that cant be inflated. Its also not owned by a single private bank, but by its user. As such it is the only money you can acctually own in electronic form.

  6. Jaime Royo Olid

    Very thought provoking. Needs part 4 were the alternatives are explored and critically assessed.

    1. i_drink_Scope

      that's where you (the viewer) come in. it is for you to create your own Part 4


  7. Tarquin Mahoney

    5 minutes in and the film is promoting usury and seems to have no problem with its continuation-when the debt system is in evidence the heart of the problem...not capitalism- we are dealing with corporatism and corruption- not capitalism per se.
    We have fiat money at the moment -the derivatives market alone is worth 50 times the gdp of the entire globe...

  8. Warren Gates

    I like this series. I'm glad it got so much attention.

    The expansionist money system is good for growing civilzations, but it definitely needs an end.

  9. PixieMe

    I see that many current issues would vanish, but one question that is not addressed concerns "value" of services and consequent "reward"...In the end food, water, housing, etc., are the goods truly needed to humans but, looking further, so is knowledge and intellectual outcomes (even before technological, academic activities). Now, would the latter be valued in the same proportion as the former? Even if self-dictated? Moreover, isn't the very idea of reward (and that obscure notion of "fairness") one of the main sources of current problems?

  10. Dean Edgington

    One thing I find really difficult to believe is the CEOs and heads of financial organisations like SEC, Federal Reserve etc didn't see the crisis coming. How come we (the ordinary people) knew something had to give? I knew irresponsible lending couldn't go on as it was and I was only aware of that one small aspect of the entire house of cards. I knew nothing about sub-prime mortgages, credit default swaps, toxic assets, inaccurate credit ratings etc.

    So when I see these highly (over) paid executives trying to tell us they didn't see this disaster coming I get angry because it's a huge, barefaced lie designed to mask their irresponsibility and flagrant dishonesty (to say the least). It's not even a convincing lie but then it doesn't have to be convincing, they don't really care that they have been found out. In fact, it thrills them a little. It’s a game to them and a reliable measure of their contempt for the rest of humanity. Remember, a higher rate of sociopaths and psychopaths (3-4 times that of the general population) work in these organisations so it's no wonder the corporate culture of banks is grossly self-serving, quite anti-social, has little regard or ability to plan long term and is criminally reckless.

    On top of everything, the severity of the crisis may be exaggerated in order to push through an agenda that will make it even more difficult for ordinary folk. It can’t be repeated enough; we are dealing with the morally insane.

    Furthermore, they think they are entitled and deserving of the booty but this is largely based on their own hype, narcissism and hubris. They are not so clever, all they have done is designed a system that is deliberately difficult for us to penetrate on account of us not being invited to consult in its manufacture, despite this being a democracy.

    We were all robbed and they made off with a good chunk of our loot: pensions, savings, assets. Then we gave them more and it looks like we are going to struggle to get that back. No wonder though, by their nature psychos like to fuk everyone over even if they don't need what they've taken. It’s pathological, unfortunately it doesn’t always backfire on them but it sure does hurt the rest of us.

    1. JudgeJuryExecutioner

      It all depends who you work for and how much money you can siphon off for them. If no one really gets in trouble it will continue.

  11. forheavensakes

    In answer to Donald Edward Goodman, "what the hell are they (Fed. Res.) backing their currency up with...) It's us, good man, IT'S US, the taxpayer. UGH!

  12. Dean Edgington

    It's hard for the average person (me) to know if any of this is true. I'm glad the author isn't a tin foil hat wearing nut, con-man like Alex Jones or one of those supporters of Ron Paul but is he right? Dunno! From what I've very briefly read, he describes the mechanism of money well but draws the wrong conclusions i.e. that the machine is inherently flawed and can ONLY lead to catastrophic failure. Many learned people (for what it's worth) disagree with Grignon.

    Let’s says this film is correct. Other than a Greek style protest, what can I/we do about it? Probably very little right now and not nearly enough by the time it's too late. But if the film is wrong, all is well, economies will continue to grow and the only downside will be the tiresomely incessant conversations about how we remember when a glass of beer was only $1 and you could drive all the way around to world on a single tank of petrol.

    I certainly feel there's a better way to do commerce than our current system so that at least the PERCEPTION of unfairness is reduced. Even better would be to achieve an ACTUAL fairer world (sorry to sound like a beauty pageant contestant). Calling for a fairer world though only raises the question: what is fairness? You can’t change a great deal without a strong moral imperative so for me, for quite some time now, fairness is the real question. It’s seems to be what all the economic debates you see in the media boil down to.

  13. Peter Wilson

    A quarter of the comments here make sense, but these are the humans who cared enough to watch this documentary. My expectation is that about 10-15% of Americans use critical thinking in their approach to assessing societal interaction. If you are deeply interested in humans moving toward greater respect for each others' rights to their bodies and property and greater freedom to interact creatively and spontaneously with others and the natural world in peace, then you (this is if you use reason) move away from institutionalizing force, away from "legitimizing" a group of humans who force other humans to use their currency. Not only that, but they assert claim to your and my money and property, which is the only way they can "rightfully" confiscate either when they choose to (only if you're not willing to "voluntarily"). I'm not suggesting ending taxation and government enforced currency tomorrow, but that more and more of us look at the situation with more honesty---that individuals are violated by such a system, that no individuals truly have rights to their bodies and property nor do they have true freedom to interact and trade peacefully. Then, we can agree to move toward alternatives that don't involve a group of humans using force upon non-consenting but peaceful humans. David Ewer, Zatarra, RBNZ, and Samuel Gallop are promoting consistently peaceful interaction as the direction to a better world for our kids.

    1. Nwttp

      Unfortunately with the amount of the population brainwashed, as well as the amount of people not able or willing to use logic, peace is never going to put a stop to oppression. I'm sure plenty of you will disagree or whatever, and I wish I was wrong, but all you have to do is factor in the fact that those in power will not give it up without a fight and you will see that I am right. I feel that the faster those that understand that we have very little freedom (if any really) understand this, the faster we can try to change things.

  14. arlene

    OK people, how is this for a plan. As soon as you are born you get issued a bank account with enough credit to provide you with a minimal basic life requirements for as long as you live. Whenever you do anything productive, it adds to your lifetime credit. So, when you are learning to walk, feed yourself, get dressed, use the toilet etc, you get credits for that. If you decide you want to go to school, you get more credit for that. When you have learned to play music or bake bread or design a dress the people who benefit from your talents transfer some of their credit to you. When you need someone to wash your hair or grow tomatoes for you, you transfer some of your credits to them. If you decide to be non-productive you can live in a dorm, not get married, eat basic food dole from a soup kitchen, wear used clothing and cut your own hair. We could all carry a debit card and it would only work for the amount of production you accomplish for anything over the minimal life requirements. At the same time, we outlaw banks, currency, insurance, stock market, and everything else that takes money and doesn't produce anything accept bogus wealthy buggers who lord it over everyone else. Oh yeah, and we legalize pot too...

    1. Guest

      Arlene, how old are you, at least 35? A requirement for presidency. I'd vote for you.

    2. Samuel Gallop

      All right Arlene.... regarding the first 13 lines of your post, from "OK requirements" NOTHING to comment, because it merits none.

      Regarding from your last paragraph.... "At the same time, we outlaw banks, currency, insurance, stock market, and everything else that takes money and doesn't produce anything accept bogus wealthy buggers who lord it over everyone else. Oh yeah, and we legalize pot too..." you should first LEARN the basics of all that you want to outlaw and then come back to write your thoughts.

      You see ? Here lies the problem.... the complete disrespect to the liberties of others. It is obvious in your "reasoning" and pretty much everyone else's.

      The same with money, really !!!! The CORE PROBLEM with today's money is that there exist innumerable USERS of the money and only ONE PRODUCER of the stuff. It is a monopoly.
      Money is a concept ( a species of credit ) and it originated in the marketplace for the use of the marketplace.
      That several "things" have served as monetary instruments along history ( with varying degrees of success ) should not confuse the main point: Money is a relationship between traders (all of us ultimately).

      The SOLUTION to the current monetary mess ? Eaaaaasy. Give the marketplace ( society ) back their liberty to pick whatever array of monetary instruments they want to settle their debts with. Freedom to produce and freedom to use whatever "money" we need.
      As with all things left to the marketplace, we will figure it out at the lowest cost and make the best available service to the sovereign consumer.

      Will I see it happen ? Hell no, of course not.

      Why ? Because this planet is full of fascists/socialists/communists/nazis/leftists/rightists ****** who think they have a "better idea" and are willing to impose it on everyone else instead of RESPECTING INDIVIDUALS' freedom to do as they please and collaborate peacefully with each other.

      Take care.

    3. Phani Nagella

      Can you please explain in detail how this can be implemented in a layman language ? I dont have great background of economics so please help me understand.

    4. mitty68

      credit is issued by banks to buy before you earn .... making the smart but lazy 1% rich. if your sitting at home not contributing to your own basic needs then natural selection should take care of you ie. survival of the fitist. eliminate credit and earn your keep!

    5. CapnCanard

      arlene, I've heard that idea before and I'm certain that it could work as well as our current system. For awhile now I've been trying to promote the idea of QUALITY(reward those who bring benefit to others) instead of the accepted rush for QUANTITY(this rewards greed based accumulation. i.e. This is the status quo) and this accumulation is the result of the nearsighted capitalist ideology. At least that is my own simple interpretation. The really good thing about your idea is that it is something that is achievable, but to move to such a system may be painful for the wealthy. They won't go willingly.

    6. Peter Wilson

      Again, the issue MUST be addressed: the key injustices in our current system stem from We-the-Productive "consenting to" (I don't, but apparently a bunch of us do) government with coercive power and ownership claim to our money (taxation). If the quality-based currency (Life Credits) is controlled by the government and we still consent to taxation, we will be in the same boat. The government will want more and more money for their programs. We won't like them taking so much of our hard-earned credits for their bloated programs that enrich corporations...and they will come up with a rationale to create government credits out of thin air (just like today's U.S. Dollar) which will go to the rich and influential who have been receiving the lion's share of tax dollars (credits or whatever)....Granting an agency taxation privileges (forceful taking of money) is absolutely the wrong call. It leads to tyranny. It just does. We effectively negotiate myriad services worth trillions of dollars every year among each other. With some creativity we can do the same for "vital" government programs. For instance, if a military defense company is negotiating for services, I know I won't hand over my credits for murdering children in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan, but I will pay quite a few to effectively defend our borders from invaders. It is amazing how devastatingly unjust this system is, and it's because of our forced use of one currency (theirs) and government claim to our money---and yet for most people I talk to, looking at alternatives is "impossible". Wow.

    7. eliminati

      uhhh, think that's already been done for most part. Never works.

  15. KsDevil

    A digital coin who's value is based on a one-world economy's promise and issued by a centrally controlled one-world authority. Interesting. Well, in a way the US Dollar is like that since even terrorists want their money in US Dollars.
    Still, the animation could have been a bit more professional.

  16. Yeung Xiao

    Gold have no inherent value. The world can use a good course on Marxism.

    1. John Rintala

      NO, NO!! We can't have that. Marxism exposes the whole game!

  17. rtiom

    Same sh*t over and over. How many more times are these docs gonna repeat the same thing. Nothing is being done, and that's the BOTTOM LINE. Everyone is still sucking the capitalist nob.

    1. KDanagger

      Capitalism = fair trade. Value for Value. No intervention or regulation by the mafia thugs in government.

      What you are complaining about is organized crime. Corrupt government in bed with corrupt corporations whose goal is to destroy competition and the free flow of ideas and products that might "cut-in" on their ill-gained profits. That is corporatism or fascism.

      Get it straight - know your enemy. Attacking capitalism is attacking the lifeblood of America. It's the system that made this country so rich and with the highest standard of living the world has ever seen.

      The banker and government thugs have been tearing down America for decades for their own criminal benefit. They don't want free markets - they want central planning - socialism and communism.

  18. Donald Edward Goodman

    I find it not surprising but abhorant, that the "Federal Reserve" ADMITS it has NO Gold! Well then, what the hell are they "backing" their currency with? Certainly not that grey beard?

    1. RBNZ

      they are backing their currency with the armed forces of the u.s.a.

  19. alans

    The value we really need is food, shelter, community, friendships, relationships, respect. Money is used as a tool to get these things. The current system works on promises on promises, through lying and dishonesty.

  20. WTC7

    I haven't quite understood how this 'similar-to-barter-but-not-really-barter system is supposed to work (obviously, modern technology was involved in it at some point but I didn't understand how exactly) so I think I'll have to watch it again. I guess that global social networks certainly have the potential of being used for more than informing one's "friends" what one had for breakfast or tending imagined farms and cattle (or that's what I hear people are using it for among other useless things).

    The matter of fact is that the current monetary system has long ago grown into a blood-sucking monster and it is becoming one for ever more people by the day. By the way, not really being able to hate, I think I am close to hating this system that is perpetuating the modern type of slavery of humans through debt. But, with my extremely limitet knowledge of economics, I think I also understand that the barter system couldn't work properly today (as i understand it) as only a limited number of people may have what I need. I would therefore like to hear a bit more comprehensive and detailed insight into this proposed solution. I also have to add that I thoroughly enjoyed this series.

  21. drinker69

    I just watched a ton of videos about the Federal Reserve last night and it blew my mind as to the how the system operates. They own basically everything. Check out 'The American Dream Film' on youtube. Its a cartoon but it breaks it down for the uneducated like myself. Even just looking at the Federal Reserve building in Washington gives you the creeps because no one is allowed in it except for the select few who create the monetary system. People need to back up Ron Paul for everyones sake. Creepy stuff going on for sure. Talk about back room dealings.

    1. fonbindelhofas

      congratz with awakening;)

    2. drinker69

      "Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes its laws."-One of the Rothschild wieners.

    3. tomregit

      I have seen the "cartoon" you refer to, agree with your assessment. With my attempt to educate myself on the subject, but limited understanding, it seems that much of the problem lies with fiat currency and the government not directly controlling the money supply. All money is created through debt that we, the debtors, can never fully pay. The system in place will prevent it; thus, unless there is a sea change, we and generations to follow will owe the central bank in perpetuity.

    4. drinker69

      I'm still trying to get my head around all of it myself. I mean it's no wonder bankers control everything. People either don't know what's going on or don't care or are too confused to question 'money'. Without the internet I wouldn't have known a thing. For some reason I'm right into it! I hate numbers, math etc. but this fascinates me. Maybe I don't like the smirking, evil dooshbags that are responsible for the current currency mess and it's time people get educated and involved. All this new information is swirling around the noodle, IOU's, fiat currency, gold standard, assassination attempts, central banks, barter and trade, indian necklaces, canadian tire money...It's a lot to process. Apparently it has to change as a collapse is imminent. This is what the brilliant economical minds tell us. I think the same brilliant minds should get together and come up with another system that will relieve us of the taxes and interest rates and debt so we can get on with living fuller, happier lives.

    5. Nigel Watson

      check out Agenda For A New Economy by David Korten

    6. drinker69

      Watched it. I'm getting more smarter by the second.

  22. John Jacquard

    if your interested in seeing how these ideas can be translated into a actual system check out the venus project dot com

    1. tariqxl

      The Venus project is a pipe-dream based on the misconception that people will work without incentive. That we are in fact ALL really good people misinterpreted, by ourselves, because of this evil system we suddenly found ourselves in. Not that we built the system so it must be us that are at fault... Our system mirrors our current stage of evolution, the way our instincts tell us to build. If we lived in a near perfect society with no crime and every citizen does his/her part without incentive, we'd be more akin to insects. But we're not we're primates who apply trade and barter, who are territorial and who apply violence to resolve ownership disputes with meager attempts at peaceful resolve first. To change our society we'd have to evolve dramatically.

      Plus its the brain child of Jacques Fresco, a former aeronautical engineer who, no matter how smart, designed a helicopter that's just a round pod with a main rotor.

    2. David Ewer

      There are other incentives apart from money. Ask any parent - they don't look after their kids for money. Ask anybody caring for an elderly relative if they're doing it just for money? Most folk feel a responsibility to each other, wider society and the ecosystem - it's often called "being connected". The reason we have the contemporary system is not because people chose it - they were never consulted - it was foisted on them and butressed with laws and violence. You may consider yourself a territorial ape, but most of us are looking to the future rather than the past...

  23. wald0

    I think what these guys are proposing is that we simply promise this or that service or good to someone in exchange for a service or good in return from that same someone. I don't think this system would ever work because what if I have need of a service or good but the person providing it has no need of anything I have or can produce? Under this system that means I would not be able to fill that need without going through a lot of trouble and several other transactions. And what about enforcement, what if someone promises me something and doesn't make good on that promise? Perhaps they got injured or killed before they could fulfill our transaction, perhaps the goods they promised me got destroyed through no fault of their own. And what about trying to trade with other cultures that value much different things that we generally do not possess or produce. This is going backwards people we stopped barter because it simply is not efficient in the modern world because it can not set a standard of value on a global scale. Other cultures have much different ideas about what to value and why, which in my opinion blows this idea out of the realm of possibility. i agree that we need monetary reform, I hate the current system of perpetual debt controlled by the whim of fat cat bankers that would sell their own mother for a profit. But, we have to be realistic as well.

    1. fonbindelhofas

      i dont think they are proposing exact direct barter, its about money is a standart like meter or kilometer, and in global social network it is very realistic

    2. Nigel Watson

      timebankusa may have some clearer answers for you

    3. wald0

      If I understand time banking you basically spend a few hours providing a service to someone and then you can request that same amount of someone else's time to get a service in return. The very nature of this system requires people to have some kind of specialization in a certain kind of service I need, otherwise my initial investment of time could have been spent doing the task myself. Since most people do have a special talent to offer though I could definitely see the value of such a system, they come over and decorate my home I teach their kid guitar for instance. But as a monetary system to run a country this would never work for very obvious reasons. It is a great idea though, I like it. I think it could strengthen a community, bring people together, give one a chance to share their talent, give children the male or female role model they may be missing, etc. If you live in a secluded rural section of the country like myself it would be hard to utilize. I doubt anyone within a hundred mile radius of me is part of the program. Too bad, I could use such a service right now.

    4. John Rintala

      It's not a good idea. A dishwashers labor is not worth as much as a doctor's. Furthermore, there is a system to facitlitate trade. It is called money. The problem is that we don't control the money supply thourgh a democratically elected government. It is controled totally by the finance capitalist class. They own banks and create the money supply as debt. We need to break the power of finance capital.

    5. Nwttp

      Of course their labor is not worth the same. But the only way it is fair that one can afford to live on their salary, and one needs to work 80 hours a week just to afford a roof over their head, is if each had the opportunity to work towards that livable paycheck. And you can not tell me they let you into medical school with 50 cents. Which I'm sure is more than a dish washer could afford and not die of starvation. Believe me, I'm talking from past experiences.

  24. John Jacquard

    great work! it is evolutionary for humanity to arrive at this point of leaving a monetary system a barter and trade behind us to advance to a point to give all people true freedom with no price tag

  25. James Green

    This entire series has been an education. Thanks to the creators of this marvelous set of documentaries, and to you, Vlatko, for all your hard work in keeping TDF the best on the web. Kudos!