The Privileged Planet
Although this documentary is promoting intelligent design view I decided to post it. For centuries scientists and philosophers have marveled at an eerie coincidence. Mathematics, a creation of human reason, can predict the nature of the universe, a fact physicist Eugene Wigner referred to as the unreasonable effectiveness of mathematics in the physical sciences. In the last three decades astronomers and cosmologists have noticed another, seemingly unrelated, mystery. Contrary to all expectations, the laws of physics seem precisely fine-tuned for the existence of complex life.
Could these two wonders actually be isolated pieces of a wider pattern? Both are prerequisites for science, yet what about the process of scientific discovery itself? What are its necessary conditions? Why is it even possible? Read any book on the history of science, and you'll learn about magnificent tales of human ingenuity, persistence, and dumb luck. But that's only part of the story, and not even the most important part. Our location is much more critical to science than it is to real estate. For some reason our Earthly location is extraordinarily well suited to allow us to peer into the heavens and discover its secrets.
Elsewhere, you might learn that Earth and its local environment provide a delicate, and probably exceedingly rare, cradle for complex life. But there's another, even more startling, fact, described in The Privileged Planet: those same rare conditions that produce a habitable planet-that allow for the existence of complex observers like ourselves-also provide the best overall place for observing. What does this mean? At the least, it turns our view of the universe inside out. The universe is not "pointless" (Steven Weinberg), Earth merely "a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark," (Carl Sagan) and human existence "just a more-or-less farcical outcome of a chain of accidents" (Steven Weinberg). On the contrary, the evidence we can uncover from our Earthly home points to a universe that is designed for life, and designed for discovery.
It's not 'fine tuning', it's simply the way the universe is evolving. It's the only way it can be 'tuned', or structured, that is, the way it is, the way it evolved. Unless you believe in supernatural powers instead of evolution.......
Seriously, to think that a perfect god, or superpower, Omniscient, Omnipotent, etc. could even conceive of something as stupid as this world defies imagination. Why? There's no reason to create a mess like this planet is there?
Myths, my friends, it's all myths and guesswork. Tell me that the greatest power and intelligence in the universe is going to create on this planet dozens and hundreds of tribes and nations of humans who insist of killing each other and stealing each other's stuff. What kind of power and perfection is that. Where is any evidence of the supernatural that anyone can agree upon?
It's time to grow up and face reality......
God is hardly mentioned in the PP DVD...other than by the ancients (even though many posts here below have brought "God" into their posts). What the PP does do is smack chance down as a operative reason for why you are here and/or even reading this. The DVD should make one question our existence (and the universe) as one of conspiracy rather than coincidence. But if you want to deal with another “Illustria Media” film production then check out “The Case For a Creator” it will mimic over the PP DVD and add to it with biology and Information Science.
The one thing I have discovered in my life is that there has to be ONE universal truth. Call it science, religion, God, god(s) or whatever you like, but you have to admit it is there.
I suggest the best thing to do is not to believe ANYTHING without HARD CORE proof!
To have a blind faith that there is a God is foolishness.
For the Christian: The Bible itself says to "Prove all things" - 1 Thes 5:21
But so many professing Christians refuse to prove anything.
They just say "God did it" and they think that's good enough.
They base their "faith" on something that they were told by their parents!
----What if their parents were wrong?----
God would never rely on word-of-mouth and the ability for parents to teach their children what they know. No. Instead God wrote the Bible.
I grew up just accepting the existence of God as matter-of-fact (Psalm 19:1). Then one day I realised that this "God" may not be the God of the Bible. IT could be anything...
Then one day (much to my annoyance) I discovered that the Bible could be proven to be the inspired word of God. Once I had proven this I was finally able to understand THE REAL TRUTH behind the universe and the meaning of life.
I suggest you look for the answer yourself. There is only one. And it's not 42 :P
The problem with science is It is all based on lies, One lie covers up the next lie until the truth emerges then it becomes fact. Nothing found by science does not already exist. You can not "Prove" something to be right in this reality with out it already being the truth. So we as a human race could learn Everything there is to know about the entire Universe, Multiverse, Multidimensions and what ever else Science eventually emerges on as truthful, and in the end it was already there waiting to be discovered. As a believer in God or a complete atheistic view towards the universe believe in Loving one another, Loving the world you have been born into, treat everyone with respect and take care of one another.
This Doc is a MUST SEE. It does allude to 'intelligent design'... but only VERY briefly. But what it does do is show you not only how PRIVILEGED we are as humans to be on this planet and alive... but how PRIVILEGED the PLANET itself is to have its positions in the solar system, sun, neighbors, and galaxy in spiral arm.
They allude to saying oh this MUST be by design... but do not be put off by this. The information (scientific) puts the Drake Equation into expanded current views and shows just how LUCKY we are to even be in this galaxy type and position let alone solar system and the right chemicals needed.
Come on people.. leave the bible out. Just watch the facts and understand the science... the whether this is all By Design or By Chance are polar opposites that will never go away. But, this doc shows that either way you cut it... we are DAMN LUCKY to be human and live and conscious at all! That is the point.
'Although the world is not perfect, it is yet the best that is possible.'
This quote of G.W. Leibniz is often used by creationists, yet they forget to mention that Leibniz also believed in a multi-verse.
If this universe is part of a multi-verse, meaning if there are countless numbers of universes, it is not surprising that everything is 'fine-tuned'.
Then the universe would not be the way it is to make life possible - instead life would exist BECAUSE the universe is the way it is. We would just happen to exist in a universe in which all requirements for intelligent life - life that is able to ponder about its existence - are met.
And maybe it's not the only one.
It seems to me that many people are just not able to admit that mankind is nothing special, and not the 'center of the universe', so they always try to find a way to explain why we are. But imho... we are not.
This is an anthropocentric and pretty arrogant view of the world. If the whole purpose would be our existence, the universe wouldn't need to be that huge.
Once we accept that we're not the reason for the existence of the universe, and realize that we are part of something much bigger than only mankind, we will make the next step in the evolution of human consciousness - hopefully before we destroyed ourselves.
People need to stop expecting scientific explanations from the Bible. Its a religious book of personal individual growth. People also need to stop expecting science to stand still. Everything is in flux including Darwin, in science even this is not sacred.
Either we were created or evolved, and, as we learn, popular understanding shifts back and forth. That is our history: popular culture, whether right or wrong, shifts with each generation.
That was an exhausting read through the comments section.
What started as a somewhat logical debate quickly declined into countless Quran references and links. Just to top it off with the all too familiar - I believe in it because the holy book says it is so...
The problem I have with faiths and religion (in general) is this:
The inability to be proven wrong. It doesn't allow for change...
It doesn't matter how intelligent or educated you are, if you're faith doesn't allow your beliefs to be contradicted - then you are forever stunted.
The scientific method 'encourages' new information which may prove it wrong. That's why science is constantly evolving...
hmmm 'although this documentary promotes intelligent design I decided to post it...' You have a great deal of nerve thinking you have the right to decide what a person should or should not be exposed to. Why do you feel that people shouldn't be informed about beliefs that differ from your own? Are you worried that a person may choose to think for themselves? that they may draw their own conclusions on the matter? You are obviously a fundamentalist atheist, an extremist who cannot be relied upon to offer a balanced opinion on the area of faith.
I myself as a very tiny child knew within me there is a God. A real in control of all things great,mighty,small,and weak.I knew His wisdom was to be held as Infinite.His Power ultimate.His Love unchanging and unconditional.No one had to tell that,I just Knew! it with my heart and soul. :)
My two favorite bible stories are: 1; "1 Samuel 5:1-5 (KJV)
And the Philistines took the ark of God, and brought it from Ebenezer unto Ashdod.
When the Philistines took the ark of God, they brought it into the house of Dagon, and set it by Dagon.
And when they of Ashdod arose early on the morrow, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the earth before the ark of…" Thats beautiful,You can't sit a false god up next To God. :) and 2.Luke 19:28-40
28 After Jesus had said this, he went on ahead, going up to Jerusalem. 29 As he approached Bethphage and Bethany at the hill called the Mount of Olives, he sent two of his disciples, saying to them, 30 “Go to the village ahead of you, and as you enter it, you will find a colt tied there, which no one has ever ridden. Untie it and bring it here. 31 If anyone asks you, ‘Why are you untying it?’ tell him, ‘The Lord needs it.’”
32 Those who were sent ahead went and found it just as he had told them. 33 As they were untying the colt, its owners asked them, “Why are you untying the colt?”
34 They replied, “The Lord needs it.”
35 They brought it to Jesus, threw their cloaks on the colt and put Jesus on it. 36 As he went along, people spread their cloaks on the road. (From John 12, we discover they came with Palm Branches along with their coats.)
37 When he came near the place where the road goes down the Mount of Olives, the whole crowd of disciples began joyfully to praise God in loud voices for all the miracles they had seen:
38 “Blessed is the king who comes in the name of the
Lord!”“Peace in heaven and glory in the highest!”
39 Some of the Pharisees in the crowd said to Jesus, “Teacher, rebuke your disciples!”
40 “I tell you,” he replied, “if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out.” Do u see the if they had not praised The very stones of the earth He created would have cried out to praise Him. <3
This has been one of the most engrossing and enlightening discussion(at least the first half)I have encountered on any internet forum, until Yavanna showed up. It's amazing the knack some people have in poisoning an environment.
Oh well, all good things must come to an end.
Intelligent design... Thanks for the "heads up", I'll pass.
well, that was a lengthy discussion ...
"Read any book on the history of science, and you’ll learn about magnificent tales of" catholic church burning people who do not adhere to the only true scientific reality according to which god created all. I am happy that the creationists these days aren't in a position to do so ... even catholic church thinks they are crazy. :D
One more thing Id like to point out. And understand I do respect science as well as religion. Religion basically tells us that once we die,we move on or continue to develop in a spiritual plane of some kind ,therfore a neverending cycle.
Science tells us that everything has a beginning but no real end. At least thats the understanding ive gotten of infinity. If math can expalin it all, and math tells us that infinity is equatable. Then that should imply in some way shape or form all energy just goes on forever. Which has already been stated "energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only transferred from one medium to another.
So science can take us nearly to the point of the big bang and almost to absoulute zero but cant quite get all the way there. And once it does,then what. So it says there is a beginning and no end but cant provide solid evidence of either.Only theory.
Point being, take everything youve ever learned out of consideration for a moment and think about what this implies.They both have the same principles and neither gives difinitive evidence.This is what I mean when I say that if we are ever to understand the true nature of the universe and life itself, we must consider both ends of the spectrum in order to develop the whole picture.
I find it amusing listening to you rammble on about your beliefs. You want us to think your religion is so good, yet its just as guilty as the christians for the centuries of holy wars. Over and over again you use the term "Westerners" as if we are all evil. Maybe you need to re-evaluate your OWN prejudices.
Further more. Would you please quit with the Qu'ran and all its knowledge pitch. You certainly dont seem educated on all the facts. Cosmology ,medicine (spiritual and scientific), mathmatics ,agriculture and on and on existed LONG before your book there was wrote. But you go ahead and give all the credit to allah or muhhamed or who ever you worship while slamming anyone elses beliefs and cultures.Because your way is obviously the best way.(And im aware the west stole its knowledge,so did the east)
I respect all religions but get annoyed when I hear anyone defending one over the other. When will you people see that all religion teaches the same thing. Wait,that would require you to actually learn another religion, cant have that. They all have been watered down and changed to suit certain times and individiuals. But the core messege is always the same. Personally,I feel if you want to mix religion and science together, your reading the wrong book. Study the vedic scripts.
However, if you REALLY want to educate yourself. You would study all religions and come to the same conclusion the rest of us are starting to see. They all stem from the same place. Yep, 1 religion and 1 culture.
I still believe science and religion are going to combine someday as they are perfect opposites,each attempting to prove the other wrong yet neither with all the answers.
So I coin the phrase " Creator Energy"! that about sums it up.
I have always been fascinated, why humans have to give name to the God. Why cant we just go with the universal consciousness since consciousness is a web of energy and universe is a web of energy. By that I stated that conciousness, any consciousness is god and we are god. We have a microcosmos in our mind.
However we look like, or this universe looks like it doesnt matter, it is just a physical form, a high-frequency energy. People just dont realize that everything is one and rather worship dieties that are used by governments, banks and figures telling us what to do and never question our existence. Everyone should be able to find the truth by themself and not just blindly accept human authorities since most of them are just after power
It doesn't seem to play for me. I'll try looking for alternative sources.
Also, could everyone just stop bickering whenever a video like this shows up? Neither side is able to convince the other side anyway as everyone believes they are right. So there's really no use... o_O
Based on a new discovery in genetic (see “Adam mtDNA theory”), I advanced a new hypothesis about the “Evolutive Creation”. The main purpose of the Evolutive Creation is to harmonize the quantum of the energy, called human souls, in a big energetically field (see Einstein theory about the unification of electromagnetic fields), called “The Son of Man”. Using a biological reflex klystron (the spermatozoid) it is possible by LMSC (learning management system control) to unify the small bio-electromagnetic waves.
Abstract of “Adam mtDNA theory”: Brain and soul storming - The necessary and sufficient processes to a well function of the human body are meticulous arranged by specific organizational cells, so called process bio-managers, using interconditioned procedures, transmitted through three ways of communication: chemical or “protein channel”, electrical or “ion channel” and mitochondrial or “EMF wireless channel”. The third type is out of the visible and measurable spectrum and raises a new challenge to the scientists. For this type of bio communication we bring a new theoretical hypothesis, based on the managerial multidisciplinary analysis of a cybernetic model proposed by us, by simulating the human body function with the virtual computerized system based on the management of its total knowledge and its perfect quality way of function. The main bricks used for this virtual construction are: the brain, as main bio-processor, and Eve and Adam mtDNA, as bio-antennas. This assembly of the total knowledge, build with “brain reasoning, biological feeling, and unlimited soul feeling”, is called by us “main decision triangle, IQ-EQ-CQ”. The main principle of the management of the total knowledge imposes us to not neglect any information produced by man during the time, even if it seems creasy at the beginning. Because in the natural fertilization the spermatozoids are naturally equipped with the paternal mtDNA (a veritable main bio-GPS – see the similitude between Adam mtDNA and quantum laser), we consider that the paternal mitochondria DNA are situated in the xiphoid process (called Adam’s rib) and have a very important role in the evolution of the human being life quality and we have developed a new hypothesis, “Adam mtDNA theory”, in addition to “Eve mtDNA theory”. Keywords: mitochondria, maternal, paternal
Astronomers presently set the age of the universe at 13.7 billion years. The earth was formed about 4.6 billion years ago. Evidence of the first life on earth appears to have occured about 3.8 billion years ago. The first multicelled animals that were common in the fossil record was 560 million years ago. After the dinos left 65 million years ago the mammals became dominant. So the earliest monkeys first appeared about 55 million years ago. The very first homonids or human like animals came along maybe 8 million years ago. That date keeps moving back too. The first Homo sapien species appeared about 250,000 years ago. And modern history began only in the last 6 to 8 thousand years ago depending on your definition of modern. In the broad expanse of the history of the universe, humans occupy a very tiny sliver of that time.
One last point; don't let anyone, evangelical Christians or Intelligent design advocates tell you otherwise. This is the best of hundreds of years of science that has been increasingly refined. Scientists will continue to debate the number of years here and there, but I have laid out here is in the ballpark.
I don't know whether to watch this. On the one hand it might be a laugh, but on the other I'll probably just end up exasporated and depressed at the sheer amount of creationist fail.
science may not be that appropriate considering that its not really mainstream...
but if it will be too blasphemous to put it under religion..
the thing is that i (and i believe many others too) associate mystery with things like the secret of blablabla or some paranormal thingy..
i know many won't agree with this but for lack of better alternative i will say it best fits under science
I don't know @aditya. Where would you put it?
why is this document under mystery anyway?? It just seems weird to me. i don't know about other people's opinions though.
regarding our privileged place:
that's a question-begging argument - OF COURSE we live in a place marvelously adapted to us, and us to it. otherwise WE WOULDNT BE HERE hehe
however - i do find myself somewhat aghast at the glibness with which scientist propose to find life around the next corner, wherever there's water, etc.
and its sobering to consider that it took two billion years on THIS planet, which we know is now such a verdant habitat, to evolve a cell design robust enough to adapt into multicellular organisms, and THAT development took another billion years after.
so00 - given the trillions upon trillions of other stars (and you might infer the number of planets), there MUST be similar folks to us somewhere. but we might very well be rare as hen's teeth. not unique, though. the odds of that are so small it would be more likely to believe a man could walk on water, vault himself into the sky on the wings of angels, etc.
regarding all the religious blather that's occured in this thread - have at it, speak amongst yourselves.
for a more exhaustive case of id vs evolution watch the doco about the dover school board.
one of the central ideas - that mathematics is pure reason, conceived quite apart from nature or material reality, and therefore, that its concordance with that nature is something to marvel at - is wrong
1 + 1 = 2 is descriptive. it is counting. math is, and can have, no fundamental divergence from the universe it describes because what we call logic are the rules and properties which hold in the universe. rules which don't apply are either ignored entirely or rejected.
this is just another device to infer a supernatural agency where none is either necessary or apparent.
If we need off planet we need not look in this solor system. If Earth so happens to be perfectly fit for our existence. Theres most likely one somewhere else, no doubt. The real needed secrets of the universe isn't allowed in our hands. Does anyone think for one minute the inhabitance of this planet would even be allowed elsewhere? That's quite evident. Look what greed, government controllers, religion along with very wrong human ideas did to this planet, which restricts all important technology advancments.
We witness the holders of extreme technology who do own secrets of the universe- they come and go effortlessly. And they witness us struggle with primative methods with no assistence. Religion and greed is so restricting the concentration for us should be focused here on earth, PERIOD. All the effort and diversions wai$ted in odd directions is senceless. Is anyone on the planet really using their mind? I think not. I only hear noise when they talk. First things first, Earth must speak with one voice. But that will never happen.
I am not a creationist, nor do I believe in intelligent design, however, I do find the argument fascinating, and if anything I find that although science will admit to not having total knowledge,what they do have is quite incredible and believable, because with chemistry, biology, physics and mathematics, all sorts of disciplines, they are able to put forth quite an argument, and because of the internet, this information is all available. I can remember coming to Canada, and seeing American television evangelists for the first time, I was only 17, but even then I remember thinking, surely this isn't real, those people are just putting on a show, how naive could I have been? It all boils down to -
For those who believe, no proof is necessary, for those who doubt, no proof is possible.
I can't start to tell you how shocked i am to see fellow humans argue in such a way, with such a distorted logic and a patholigical disregard for facts. I want One Nation...under Atheism...please oh Allmighy One, or Jesus....or Allah, or maybe Zeus hmmm nah I'm gonna consult with Odin on the matter, surely he, the allpowerfull Odin can help me, or bring Ragnarök about, then you'll see what's the "right" Religion.
"To think that we actually KNOW anything about the ultimate nature of the universe is laughable. I see atheism as a lack of imagination, just as religious zeal is an over-used imagination. In both cases, I think a little humility is in order."
Could agree more with you,both lack the evidence yet claim to know everything its quit silly.
bah, just read the whole comments. Please 1400, stop trying to make Quran sounds intelligent, you just make a mockery of yourself. I ask you two questions, if your Allah is so powerful in the first place, why does he needs you and the rest of the muslims to kill His enemies? Why don't He do it Himself? If your Allah is really God, why did He needs 3 tries to deliver His scriptures (jew, christian and muslim)?
Howdy Max, long time no see!
Had to reread my post to see what you meant! I should of been a comedian!
January 9th, 2010 at 21:13
You should read a book that is almost as old as the Qur’an,”How To Win Friends And Influence People”
I'm surprised and quite happy to see their is such a lively discussion.
I'm guessing that you are an Ahmadi Muslim? I am a born Ahmadi, reconsidering where I stand right now in regards to religion and the existence of God. (Richard Owens is not my real name, he was a scientist, a great scientist, but a real jerk)
You clearly know the Quran better than others, which is a great skill to have. I have read bits and pieces of the Quran with translation. The Quran does tell us about things that were discovered much later, but it tells us in a very broad sense. It literally can mean anything. The Quran can't be the source for everything, it just can't. Its too young. Humans originated 200,000 years ago... did God not want to provide these humans with prophets or books or anything?
In order to see my perspective, zoom out, significantly. Who crated the concept of the following: Islam, Christianity, and Judaism? Abraham.
Why is it that we all come from him, but then we break it down to 3 categories? This "God" does not make any sense. There is way too much evidence that science has, that religion lacks.
There is no way to tell if the Quran was dictated to the prophet by the angel Gabriel. There is no way to tell if it has or hasn't been changed. The Quran is the book that says that its from God... does no one else find that weird?
Its like a person citing themselves.
When this topic comes about, people (who I happen to stumble upon) who believe in God give me this analogy:
"You know the wind/air? You can't see it, but its there... thats how God is.." and then they somehow find a way to fit in the word "faith" somewhere along the way.
My answer to this, and feel free to use it, is:
You can't see the air/wind, but you can feel it. We are actually using it. Hold you breath, eventually you'll gasp for... whats the thing callled??.. oh right.. AIR! Now, if you don't breathe, you will die. No doubt about it. Now, try not believeing in God... what will happen? NOTHING. You life changes, I agree. It changes for the better. No imaginary boundaries, nothing holding you back from doing something you want, for example alcohol, marijuana, and other things...
In my opinion, I think that the concept of "God" was made to bring fear and order to people who needed it. Now that we're (humankind) are on there feet with groundbreaking science and technology, the myth, or lie, or whatever you want to call it, does not need to be applied. We are definitely better off without religion. much less a supernatural being that knows all and hears all and lives above us.
Once again, you have to see it from a very open mind and from a very basic point of view. Ask yourself, do you really think that there is something that created us, and then have that creation (which loves us) murder and kill each other over who's right about this "source" that refuses to give us a straight answer. More people are dying in the name of God than ever before. (to know more about this topic, watch The Root of All Evil? by Richard Dawkins)
The things that "He" provides us with on this Earth contradict the stuff he put into several books. These books, confuse and lead people to do things they don't want.
The fact is that those who were born into a family with religion are more likely to doubt the non-existence of God. As children, we were, and remain as sponges, and soak up everything that scares the living daylight out of us.
I'm sure I have offended some of you, which was not my intention, the truth, after all does sting. Richard Owens was a real jerk, but he was a great scientist and contributed to the scientific community.
Mind you, I am not against God, if anything I want God to exist, God is a great idea, but the facts point to the contrary.
also, i saw someone mention say that occham's razor supports intelligent design. this is false. occham's razor does NOT say that the simplest explanation is the most correct. it is the explanation with the LEAST NUMBER OF ASSUMPTIONS. as an intelligent agent is a HUGE assumption, it does not conform to occham's razor.
the argument here is flawed. just because something rare happens doesn't mean that there needed to be an "intelligent agent" in order for this to occur. for example, 150 people die worldwide each year from falling coconuts. out of 6 billion people, this yields a .0025 percent chance for a given person for this to occur in a year. when it does happen do we assume that someone made this happen? no. absolutely not. also, as unimaginably large as the universe is, regardless of how rare life might be, it is still BOUND to occur, over and over.
I've come across many atheists who wonder why creationists try to "defend" their beliefs. The reason mainly lies in the fact that Atheists apparently seem to want to stuff their ideas down the throat of those who believe in a God. One only needs to check out forum threads, youtube video comments, etc to notice how anything that promotes religion or theism is quickly attacked my atheist's comments filled my their hatred for religion or God in general OR trying to prove how the believers are wrong. Most of the people on this page have not shown similar attributes so this isn't a personal attack on anyone here.
At least from what I've noticed, person following a religion (be it Islam or Christianity or Judaism) is depicted in a very stereotypical manner (in the media) as a weirdo or an alien (figuratively), while a non-believer as regular/normal person. So to answer to those asking why creationists/fundamentalists defend themselves, I think anyone would be forced to when attacked for their personal beliefs.
P.S - I won't deny that theists too attempt unprovoked attack atheists since it is wrong in both cases, however, I've personally seen atheists generally being one of the first to flame a comment or thread on religion. I'm not trying to be biased but that's by 2 cent on that issue.
I followed quite a bit of the dialogue between 1400 and a few other people here. Initially, I was impressed by the argument and knowledge 1400 possesses, however, things took a little turn once I came across some of the comments about the authentic books of Islam.
I'm not gonna go on a huge debate here since I do not have the time for it but I do think that readers here should not blindly believe everything mentioned about Islam and do your own research on it. 1400, and the name signifying the 1400 years of the Sunni-Shia conflict, has seemed to have strayed and portrayed the Shiite "version" of Islam apparently (one can read about the senselessness of "temporary marriage" in it for instance, which promotes prostitution, watch "Divorce Iranian Style").
For the sake of a proper open understanding on the actual Islam as it was revealed(for those people above who showed interest in reading more) should know that (as stated by the Prophet Muhammed in his last sermon that) Islam is based on the Qur'an and the Sunnah (actions, speech and deeds of the Prophet Muhammed). The Sunnah is derived from the Sahih Bukhari, Muslim and the other four authentic books. A person claiming to be a Muslim and then calling some really major scholars works as a "joke" book needs some guidance.
P.S - My apologies for offending anyone and going off topic but I hope Vlatko will allow posting this comment since I only intend to clarify the issue and not start an off-topic debate on it.
Think you have got that the wrong way round, a lack of imagination concludes with the premises of "God did it."
I can quite easily imagine a God, and just as easily imagine fairies and trolls. Thing is I don't put them in charge.
Good point about arrogance, Julian, however I think atheists can be just as arrogant. To think that we actually KNOW anything about the ultimate nature of the universe is laughable. I see atheism as a lack of imagination, just as religious zeal is an over-used imagination. In both cases, I think a little humility is in order.
This is a good documentary, well made, ponderes on interesting questions, but it has one fatal flaw: the message is B.S.
It employes the flawed backwards logic so characteristic to creationists. Dudes, the Universe and the Earth are not finely tuned to support life. It is the other way around: life is tuned according to the Universe. How much brains do you need to see that?
The posts above were entertaining, especially on the arguments "the unicorn's wings are blue - no no, they're pink" between the islamic and christian view.
I can't help myself to adress just one comment to 1400 Years: the religious people claim to be creatures of an allmighty invisible being, claim to serve him, or be friends with him, while the atheists, based on evidence, claim to have evolved from apes... who's beying arrogant?
why r we so curious??? i wanna know everything!!! how the life began, what happenned to Maya, the purpose of Stonehedge, who killed Kennedy n where's my grandma hiding her gems??!!! oooohhh why don't I know it all!!!???
.....and if you do,proove me wrong!
Our known universe is made of atoms.
The solar systems of our universe are atoms,bilions of bilions of atoms wich togheter form a glas of water,on a table somewere,in a universe in wich the bilions and bilions of solar systems of that universe are the atoms that form a glas of water in a universe.....and so on and so forth!
Earth is just an electron orbiting it's nucleus!
Don't take me serious!
As they say, "It's a beautiful mystery."
I like this doc because it gives an interesting perspective. Everyone should consider these questions of our existence.
I personally think that life is all over the universe, however I also think that humans need to rethink the definition of "life." It seems to me that when people call the Earth a living thing it should be meant not so much metaphorically as practically. And the same applies for stars and galaxies and atoms--if not for any biological reason then at least for the inherent organization and "intelligence" of matter.
TY Mr V
My intent in the usage of the word "jack" was to imply that there should be a separate "forum" for this discussion - or else this thread would become like a russian doll. This would be disrespectful to people participating on the discussion - vis a vie "privileged-planet"
I think "the arrivals" deserves its own inclusion as a valid doc on TDF and was suggesting that you promote it as such - and therein we can debate it as such.
Great comment anyways and I would love to discuss it further but on a "forum" more contextual.
Creationists use one or more versions of the cosmological argument (with it's inherent finite argument) which is a philosophical idea.
If things were different (ie earth's qualities to support life) in all probability life and its forms would be different.
This is similar to a discussion on the doc "how the universe began"
I was expecting to see © Ray Comfort @ the end. There are many issues I have with this doc. Just to name a couple.
1. When determining probability they go by earths model. Not necessarily a bad thing to do if you are looking for other planets that might have life but not a good basis for a mathematical equation for determining if planets could harbor life. It is entirely possible that life might work completely different given a different set of conditions. In the vastness of the universe there are about as many "different sets of conditions" as one could want. Even here on our own planet we have found a plethora of organisms living in conditions once thought to be too harsh for anything.
2.The distace of the moon to the earth varies by about %10. This is what causes annular eclipses. Annular eclipses are when the sun and moon are in direct alignment but the moon does not cover the sun. It is far from perfect or miraculous.
3. Philosophy is not science. If you want to ponder on the philosophical reasons of "why" we are here I don't have a problem with that. If you present your philosophy as science, I have problems with that. Especially when you use flawed probability to back it up.