Project 10:10:10 - Pill or Perception?
This is a balanced and thought-provoking documentary about the connection between the mind and body, and how we can take a much more direct approach to managing our health and our world generally.
It begins with the premise that we have more power over our lives than has been previously understood, and focuses on the keys to taking more responsibility in being well, rather than allowing stress from our environment and our upbringing to create illness.
The documentary is in three parts. It begins with The Make-up of Man a discussion with a number of internationally-respected experts such as Dr Joe Dispenza and Bruce Lipton on how the size of our frontal lobe, where we create and dream and make decisions, makes us unique as humans.
Their studies show that our 50 trillion cells are like mini-individuals, each with a consciousness which is controlled by our attitudes and perceptions, which in turn are programmed by our upbringing and our environment.
They talk about the connection between stress and illness, our ability to make thought more real than anything else and how we can become so obsessed with thoughts about the past or future that we create the very things we obsess about.
We can therefore make changes in our lives and create different outcomes if we choose to take charge of our thoughts.
Own your stuff!
Judging a documentary by its cover art, I thought this was going to be a pro illicit drug rant about finding inner self through getting high, or something saying we are all God.
Boy was I wrong. This is full of common sense advice on how to rely on your self, other good people and healthy activities and thought processes to escape predatory medicine and psychopharmacology.
Very good documentary. I will tell you why cause some of you are not sure. When someone empowers you by giving you to you and not taking away from you, that is good. I laugh at some of the comments and wonder how old some are ,as they protest and defend their walls of reality. This is a good starting point, all you need to do is listen without clinging to or protecting a spoiled ego. We live in a material world and that is a fact. How we perceive the material world is a different kind of fact, because we learn to perceive.
I agree with Jay, a lot of sciency sounding words and a lot of leaps of faith. I am incredulous that Joe Dispenza calls himself a neuroscientist, this is rather lilke somebody who watches porn calling themself a Gynecologist. he seems to have major problems with even basic brain anatomy. Examples would be confusing the Diencephalon with the Mesencephalon, that is Maclean's Mamalian brain with the Midbrain which actually would be placed in Maclean's "Reptilian Complex" he appears to think that the hind brain is just the Cerebellum and that dendrites are nerves.
He then tells us with no reference other that his own assertion that the Forntal Lobes are the seat of Consious Awarness and that the Cerebellum is the seat of the Subconscious Mind - how does he know?
He also seems to use his complete misunderstanding of physics to promote his own form of Solipsism, which I'm sure he will teach for a few thousand dollars. Maybe the video chould be called 10:10:10 Proof or Deception?
I'm quite sure that meditiation and other relaxation techniques are good for one's health and wellbeing, and that science supports this idea, unfortuately this science isn't presented in this video.
Top documentary, i've always tried to refrain from taking pills and never bought into it, now i know why. This is the stuff the corporations and governments don't want you to know..good on these people for giving us the heads up and good on the documentary makers ..:)
This got so mushy and intangible I had to turn it off. I have seen thousands of documentaries and if you are a lover of knowledge, this one is a skip. Just a bunch of allegory and metaphor to indirectly describe a overgeneralized topic using pseudoscience buzzwords, about half way through you have to roll up your pants because the bs starts getting deep. Im sure they had good intentions but this doc needs a giant enema.
I enjoyed every bit of this Project 10: 10: 10 documentary,I am in agreement with the workable philosophy,as I had an experience some years ago when I was seeing floaters,I went for a check up,the diagnosis was,there was a scratch at the back of my eyeball,which were causing the floaters to be seen.A family member who accompanied me,told the Doctor that I believed that the body can heal itself,and she(the doctor),started shouting, No,no that's impossible the body cannot heal itself,she even called another Doctor ,drawing his attention to the statement,he too denied that the body can heal itself.They told me to come back in 2 weeks,they did not give me any medicine,even if they did I wasn't going to take it.After 2 weeks I returned,the same family member came along,the same tests were done on me,and the Doctor asked me,Did you take any medication? I said no,she said the scratch is gone,but that doesn't mean that the body can heal itself,I didn't respond as I knew better.So I fully understand the sound reasoning behind this project,I must say thank you for your good selection,more people should view this,I give it 5 stars.
Thanks - really enjoyed and empowered!
As far as I know, all forms of trauma can be healed with plant medicines (i.e. Ayahuasca and Ibogaine). I recommend to do your own research and find out about how they work, how to prepare and where to go. These very strong natural alkaline activate healthy DNA, required for healing and they will get rid of the toxins, which aggravates symptoms. Also, when used correctly (dietary precautions and under proper medical and spiritual supervision), they have no potential for harmful side-effects. The hallucinations caused by the DMT release are temporary and have no lasting negative effects (just as normal dreams are not harmful). Instead these visions help to process deep seated hurtful emotions which are necessary to the healing process.
THIS WAS BRILLIANT. As someone who has always believed that humans do not need medication of any sort but simply need a healthy lifestyle I truly appreciated this documentary.
I would like people to stop glorifying the human beings. We're so far from perfect. Actually we're still just barbarians with our modern technological gadgets instead of spears. Stop glorifying us. We need to change. We need a big change in perception and behaviour. We need people who don't behave like a part of the herd, we need individuals who think logically and for the betterment of us all, and animals, and plants, and our only, and essential mother Earth.
So we can do what exactly? Why do we need these people? Do you know whats best for the species?
It's interesting I've made many of these 'perceptions' on my own.
When good information is presented in the right way, "generally",individuals instinctively know where there is truth.
this is a great documentary, I completely agree but its too bad that the majority of poeple are brainwashed to believe that they need these prescription drugs
I love me. me community, me self and me body. yeeeppeee :)
it's funny.. when someone speaks with an Australia accent.. I just can't take them seriously.. might be the home made wine though
Lol. Probably the wine mate, I'm Aussie born and breed but I've never spoken with an Australia accent. Others have called it an Australian accent though. ;) Come on down for a holiday mate, you'll have fun. As long as you don't let anything bite or sting you. :)
PS If you were thinking of Theresa Grainger, she's a Kiwi.
The mention of epigenetics can not be understated here, although this doc focuses more on the positive aspects of it, when much of the literature and studies I have read focus on negatives. For example, stress, famine, BPA plastics, and pesticides can all change the genetics of parents to the point that their children and grandchildren are affected by these things even if they have never been exposed. They think it might be linked to the recent diabetes and obesity epidemics.
Also, everyone should look into "telomeres" : they are parts of you chromosomes that you can actually change with diet and exercise. Scientists can now look at a telomere length and determine how old someone is, or if they are close to death. Then certain actions can be made by the individual to lengthen their telomeres and their life.
Impressive, I don't usually get this satisfied with documentaries. Amazing.
Having so much anxiety all day and being sick with an ulcer-like illness today; I wonder, if I must go back on Cymbalta as my doctor wants me to. It's been about 30 days, since I went off of it with the help of a amino acid called 5-HTP, and tapering the dose down. I am a nurse; although today, perhaps a foolish one; as if I was a diabetic, I would take my insulin right? I am 56 years old. I lived in the same house for 20 years. I had a great job with a State in the USA working with the developmentally disabled until the place closed. I have suffered from chronic back pain from degenerative disc disease, since 1999. That's when I started the long-term use of SNRI's for depression secondary to chronic pain. I have tried drug challenges many times to get off of medication; and like now, it takes about 6 weeks to feel lost and wanting to give up. My kids are raised, I am currently unemployed, I have financial situations that can be resolved in a few months; but until then, I am so worried. Paralyzed almost by just having to call my landlord. I know, if you just face your fears, it does get better. Asking God to help me all day, (you call it magical thinking if you want to as I need my faith) I pray to be shown the way. So I see this person below this comment saying what a great documentary this is, I am hoping it helps. I am not stupid; however, and know my main concern I am afraid is calling my landlord. Why am I my own worst enemy, when I can do so much good helping others? I write poetry at heartunes to know thyself, I know rationally what is wrong, and I have family and friends who care for me. I just don't care for myself well, and I am irrational, when it comes to my health. With my kids grown, losing my great job, my secure home of 20 years; then going off of these damn pills, I wonder how to heal thyself, nurse. (laughing) At least, I can laugh at myself, writing all this crap down. Sorry. I hope this film gives me some insight into continuing to become a productive member of society again.
Sometimes just to know that someone read you is enough to give you wings. Look in the mirror and tell that woman: "you can".
AZ, you're quite an interesting person.
Welcome on TDF, i see this is your first ever comment.
Don't be shy, the more the merrier.
BTW Thank you.
You are not alone.
You can do it.
Keep truckin' Candace, you can make it mate. As sknb said, you're not alone.
Chronic pain sucks, I have 18 years experience with it now. I've come to believe that depression is a normal side effect of having any long term illness, an inevitable symptom.
I've had quite a few different medications over the years now, some were for depression, others for pain and other symptoms. Being a nurse you'd no doubt know better then I do that different things work for different people, you have to find what works best for you.
I'm not suggesting it's the same for everyone, but I found I had a better result getting off the prescription antidepressants. I found for mild pain, but also for the harder days mentally/emotionally, marijuana quite effective, although here its still illegal. But more importantly for me was my mental attitude. Pain really sucks, but it is what it is, wishing won't make it leave. Once you've done all you can to treat it, that's all you can do. I acknowledge it as much as I have to to deal with it, and then I try as much as possible to ignore it. I can never forget it, it's always there, but I try to rule it, not let it rule me. I know it's mostly in my head, but it helps me combat the depression. I still need and use medicines for pain most days, but my attitude/thinking helps me mentally and emotionally, without the side effects of the drugs. (sometimes a bottle of scotch on the bad days helps, pity about the hangovers though :)
You said you believe in God. I can't remember the passage exactly, but I recall learning years ago in the Bible it says God won't test you with more then you can handle. You can hack it. And don't worry about society. Strong, brave people like yourself make the world a better place to be in.
I know this post is old but, you can get someone else to call your landlord on your behalf. I would do that for you.
Wooooow AWESOME Documentary!!!
SHARE IT ON YOUR FACEBOOK!! SHARE THIS WITH THE WHOLE WIDE WORLD!!! How F*cking Obvious Can It Be?! It Sound Like The Truth To Me!!
Watch : Making A Killing, The Untold Story Of Psycotropic Drugging. People are allowing themselves to be marketing experiments, from Meds. Insurance, Food , etc. I can spot the suckers who have been sucked in to the biggest CULT of all,, they are the ones who leave uneducated, skeptical comments, convinced that doctors are gods and the poison they dole out like candy are magic.
easy to say if you have a roof over your head
I do believe we control our thought destiny but the explanation of what happens in what location of brain has been found false.The message of this docu is fantastic!! but take no notice of the parts were they use brain locations.It has been shown that the synapses fire all over to create any form of thought or movement.Brian Dunning take note you weasel lol.
Fantastic doc. I bilieve that we control our own body and our enviroment. We all are conected in a certain way and everything starts inside ourselves.
Great doc. It makes you think on a different way.
I was hoping that some of the participants in the doc would come and comment in this Forum, secretely thinking how great it would be to have 2 minutes from Bruce Lipton.
Well I realize Bruce Lipton doesn't have time to spend on TDF.
I have found this interview which i think is a great add-on to this doc. I would like to share it with people. He talks about conciousness and quantum physic in simple terms.
Science & Theory behind the Tapping World Summit - Bruce Lipton
Would appreciate any comment about it.
This is an excellent documentary.
The question gets ask to all of them “what makes us so unique”, what is shared isn’t science, it is peoples opinions, is the film called “A scientific view of the world” No it is called Pill or Perception?, peoples learning’s, experience and thus perceptions are being shared.
Did we do pre-frontal lobotomy in the 1930’s (yes) and the results of that are shared. The power of the frontal lobe is obvious and discussion is had about the pre-frontal lobe, our cells. I love the graphics of the brain, neurons firing of, disconnecting and reconnecting, understanding that these connections weren’t there when we were born and how our environment and what we have learnt have created the reality we experience now. Research (in a petri dish) shows how cells interact and adjust to their environment. We know that the different thoughts and states we have create different neurotransmitters to be released in the brain.
We are programmed, it’s obvious and the examples here make common sense, at some point we realise in life that we can change those programmes, if we choose. There is no right or wrong person on this page just comments in effect of what people thing they do or do not know.
This documentary is obviously not for a scientific audience it is for those that experienced mental or physical illness and are seeking other options, new insights and I have heard many of these speakers in lectures and their explanations go over my head but here they have cut out all the in depth scientific jargon to match their audience.
Are our brains in a highly influential state in the first 6 years of our life’s?... yes (and if you think not, do your research) this film gets people to question and think about how they are being around our children, especially our teachers, as parents, society. How are we influencing the identity of self?
John and Camillia share their experiences growing up, some people here think “so what” but for others that have also been physically abused or in an alcoholic, drug environment they relate and feel comfort, there is so much left brain in the comments on this page, bring in some right brain people, bring in some heart.
Can we become obsessed about our thoughts, of course, do we need science to prove that, (well some here may) but most don’t, its obvious.
Growth and survival don’t happen at the same time, I have no interest in reading a scientific paper to understand that, it says it all in the film.
I love the humour and explanation of distress and eustress and why aren’t kids taught about stress, the effects of it and how to manage it, that should be number one on our curriculum. Understanding how stress releases cortisol and adrenaline and that increased levels and continual releasing puts pressure on the heart and so, on and so on…
I know now when I am stressed, I stop and focus on my breathing and within seconds I feel better, this was one of the key messages I got form the film. Some people will watch it and not try it, just judge it, some things are simple but they need action for results.
Having a good night’s sleep, eating living foods, exercise… obvious, who needs science for that, but who does it now days, where are all the vege gardens?, I am appalled by what goes into our kids lunch boxes, dead food into living systems and we as humans created it. I agree with the comment “shut down the fast food outlets”!
There is so much research out there about the healing phase and building our immune system, I personally wouldn’t be interested in seeing all that data in a film, the discussion is there for people to go and do their own research.
Do your research on SSRI drugs, the facts are out there, they are the biggest killer in the States. Read the book MAD in America all the stats and data that the public do not get to see is in there, it’s time to wake up people.
One third of all healings is due to the belief system and its scientifically established, the placebo is in medical journals every day, its old news.
The books scanned and filmed in this doco are medical journals, the medical community are fully aware of the side effects (direct effects) from these meds.
Why do we pop a pill and supress our emotions, come on face your fears and deal with it.
The only moment you can experience is right now and if people learn how to live in the moment, be in the space of love, focus on our strengths, take responsibility for our life, healing and growth.
Bruce mentions Dr Dean Ornish, research him and the experiments on cancer drugs v’s lifestyle. Drugs stopped the degeneration – lifestyle, they regenerated.
Do we need science to tell us that lifestyle is the key to wellness?
Hehe... Well Vlatko, that's just me commenting on human beings in general. You guys do nothing but pass judgement on each others understanding of the cosmos. I just LOVE your religious discussions!
Look... I'll give ya that this documentary is kinda "New-Agey", and is a bit short on scientific data. But these people admittedly are not scientists. They are just regular people commenting on science as they understand it - just like we all are doing here. And if scientists don't appreciate the layman's interpretation of their work, then they really should keep it to themselves. I personally enjoy interpretations such as this one. It helps me understand how regular people think.
OK, whatever rocks your boat. As if you're not passing judgments... like the judgement day... and the existence of soul... YOUR words seem kind of religious... but maybe it's just me.
Yes interesting, I was thinking about that this morning, how we are all just sharing our judgements, (the evaluation of evidence in the making of a decision, whether based on formal or informal information) some comments push our buttons more than others because they challenge our perspective and beliefs, but they are all just as they are meant to be for where we are at and what we are learning at this point in time. Thank you for this site Vlatko I am looking forward to watching 'The Century of Self' today, one that has caught my eye and looks of interest.
The Primacy of Conciousness is an other very interesting one.
AZ, the Primacy of Consciousness, yeah that was Peter Russell's little lecture. I believe it is on this site, I highly recommend Russell's lecture. BTW, you might wanna check out hte book "The Self Aware Universe" by quantum physicist Amit Goswami and his declaration that Consciousness is the ground of all being. Much more intuitive, and I like that.
@Waldo, Vlatko, and whoever else... If one were to say that "consciousness is that which recognizes it's own existence", then one would be hard-pressed to say that everything living does not posses it, to some degree. Not even sub-atomic particles. It is only that we humans have evolved enough to ask why things happen that sets us apart all that came before us. No other species cares why; therefore, they don't need to know whose to blame. That's all US, baby! Welcome to Judgment Day!
OK and... the point is? We never claimed that anyone else asks "why" except humans.
SO, when will be the Judgement day? This year perhaps?
One Thing this Film Doesn't Talk About is Trusting Our Instincts. We as Humans Don't Do It and Go By it Because We're So Afraid of Rejection Because
Our Brains Which Are Basically Computers are Programmed Since Birth to Rely on Something or Someone Who Knows Better or is a Professional in the Finding the Solutions of Our Problems at that Time, But We Have All the Answers Plus With Self Obedience and Awareness with Keeping an Open Mind Can Get to The Roots of Our Stress Our Issues Our Problems Without One Pill ...But the Catch is Having Patience, Our Bodies are Working Processes Which Means in Time it Will Work How You Want it to With the Condition of Taking Care of It. With Instinct I Knew Taking Medicine Will Not Cure That One Time of Year I Have that Horrible Flu, I Knew With the Proper Nutrition & Exercise I Would Eventually Feel Better and Guess what Happened?..
I'm sure all the folks in the doc charge a pretty penny for their services. It's the open (with some regulations) market. They are merely competitors in this market. I'm sure you could find a bunch of oncologists who sound just as convincing and well-intentioned. Google Stanislaw Burzynski.
So, you've been to Alice's site, done the search, read a few articles and you want a clearer understanding? No. Clearly not.
I've watched a bit of the doco and I'm pretty appalled. I get mad like Dawkins when I see misty-eyed sociopaths preying on the vulnerable, even though they are both locked in an endless compulsive cycle and don't want to be released, much less exposed.
Magical Thinking is not the same as understanding compulsive and irrational behaviour, because it is a flight from emotional pain as opposed to an acceptance of it. That is a critical, vital difference, and it's the line between reason and insanity, one that is all too easily crossed when you put your mind in someone else's hands.
The only way I know to 're-program' your mind is the hard way. It's the way alluded to by Alice Miller and I think best layed out in practical steps by Nathaniel Branden in How To Raise Your Self-Esteem, but also to a lesser extent in his other titles. That this doco contains seemingly rational half-truths makes it all the more seductive to people who aren't interested in a Scientific Falsification - that is a constant challenging of their beliefs.
Having read a few comments here I'm loathed to watch this, but I want to just pitch in that my only interest comes from quantifying Alice Miller's concept of 'The Compulsion To Repeat', which is no doubt playing out already in this comments section.
I wouldn't normally comment before watching something, it just seems pertinent in light of the Reason versus Irrationality argument going on - the compulsion to repeat does actually explain compulsive and irrational behaviour. I'm even doing it now a bit, cos I'm not over my trauma either. I was a reasonable child with highly irrational parents, so I insert very rational comments with links to the greatest life-changing minds in history into arguments between strangers on the Internet. But I see more sense in doing it here than Youtube. That's for me, a step in the right direction.
If this is new to you, pop over to her site and search for "the compulsion to repeat", or grab a copy of the revised edition of The Drama Of The Gifted Child.
I have no clue what you are trying to say, blame my French.
He says we are compulsive repeaters of irrational thought. The good news is that its not our fault because its compulsive. Probably chemical in nature. We need pills to correct our compulsive irrational behavior.
lol, j/k humor is my friend. by the way, do you have big boobs? sorry its not me, thats my Tourette's. Also probably chemical in nature.
LOLOL. Thanks for the translation.
edit: i am still laughing
Too many of you guys are too hell bent on science. Yes I believe many can over reach in an effort to understand what science hasnt explained yet but why so restricted? I really think you just feel safer that way. It's just too easy to laugh at the free thinkers because you can pull a study out of your ass and say," ah haaa! Look here, you don't know what you are talking about, please move back into the box."
So go ahead. Stay in your box. I know where the boundries are. I say BORING! Im gonna try and take a look around just outside the box. Not to far, I'll try to use the edges of the box as some foundation. But this box is 3 dimensions, Im told there might just be 4. I know its here somewhere.
GO NEW AGERS!!! Rock ON
to Epicurus.. IT MAKES ME FEEL GOOD..
Here comes the famous "box" again. As if science is inside and you wonder outside. Come on. You don't really realize how untruthful this statement is. If science is a closed box, how this scientific and technological progress came to be? How do we have thousands of theories and hundreds of science disciplines and hundreds of thousands of scientists researching around the world as never before? If it was closed box I would've expected the same exact thing for over thousands of years... something like religion.
"I really think you just feel safer that way"
I think is the other way around. You feel safer to be believer. Science is a hard, cold place to be. No security, no God to whom you can cry overnight, you have to constantly prove your words... etc.
Science may be a physical box, a box that keeps stretching bigger and bigger to include the world and the knowledge we see expanding. Beyond the box there is the incorporeal. That's where we pick and choose what goes in the box and that's where we leave what we are not ready to put in the box because we don't know it exist yet or that it can exist.
So i agree, science thinks outside of the box all the time otherwise we would never go forward. The incorporeal is not magic, it is unthought thoughts in the waiting expanding room where the box is standing. What is the room in? Our conciousness. What is our conciousness? anyone's guess at the moment.
"That's where we pick and choose what goes in the box and that's where we leave what we are not ready to put in the box because we don't know it exist....yet"
Who are those "we" that you're referring to? And who does the "picking" and "choosing"?
We in my opinion is the sum of us all, not independent people but the incredible web (not talking internet) that connects us all. That's the big WE. The total awareness of knowledge, ideas and hypothesis in all fields down to how to make bread from zillions of years ago.
OK, but that was done by critical, rational thinking outside of the box (e.g. Einstein), usually by one man or group of people, and then peer reviewed across the globe by thousands of other people. From the making of bread till now.
I make a bread, it works. You repeat that, you see it works. You start to make it too. The idea is checked numerous of times and gives the same result and clearly works into practice. We all start to make bread - AKA Scientific Method.
Az, are you referring to the "Akashic Records" that are sinilar to a cosmic or collective consciousness, not that I particularly believe in that.
Yes and no, but the thought of having an Akashic Record existing is in that box.
The box is our common present reality, it holds everything thought and done. It is like where we are at in the Eveything is a Remix kind of way.
When Epicurus writes: "it will always be true that the earth orbits the sun, not vice versa, or that heat evaporates h2o."
This works for a physical only reality but possibly breaks down in an incorporeal dimension.
The only thing that comes to mind by your incorporeality is quantum entanglement, are our thoughts entangled with matter.
But having a incorporeal dimension, means that there is no incorporeal dimension, incorporeal dimension has to have some kind of substance which it does not have, that is why it is called incorporeal, it is a nothing.
BIngo! This physicallity may be just a dream, a puff of air we take for granted and solid. But it may become something that can be accessed at will from this nothing instead of the other way around....and then we get the flower and the invisibility of it's fragrance.
edit: i am going to split some wood, i need to vent my brain. Laughing! Will be back, this is so much fun!
Sure we are dreaming, we are probably just butterflys dreaming we are human. I forget who said that.
Anyway you are half right, Einstein and most of the greats said this reality, time, space, is an illusion! and it definitely is an illusion according to quantum mechanics. who am I to argue with that?
Edit: But since we are focused in our current reality with its innumerable laws of physics etc: we must abide to that, this is as good as it gets.
You are exactly right here. As humans, we focus on our current reality, a reality we have created, a reality we hold together as existence. The laws of physics that we have written are based on this reality and they are substantial, our eyes has seen the proofs.
But could our eyes see the proofs of an other dimension since it may not require eyes perhaps to access it.
Einstein said: "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one"
Einstein also said: "A question that sometimes drives me hazy: am I or are the others crazy?"
Az...Well, we have not exactly created our reality, we have merely collapsed the waveform en-mass from the sea of unlimited probabilities/realities that are always available in the quantum foam by latching on the one vibration/string that determines this particular reality in our particular Planck second "now" that we reside in.
But we can change our day by day reality by taking choices of probable actions that are available to us every Planck second by our "nows". Again have to reiterate we always have to follow the laws of physics in our reality, no la, la, land of spirituality incorporeal stuff.
I love when you write me poetry like that.
edit: concerning the photo, i'll settle for a pic of your car or even better YOUR airplane if it exist in this reality...lol
i added: "or that it can exist"
I want a dollar for each time the 'the box' is mentioned..lol
One of my problems with science is where much of the funding is coming from. If there is any truth to points made in documentaries like this where would the money come from to validate it? And a lot of money is needed to make it sound science. Is there any money to be made? NOPE. Because the best life one can live is really cheap. Hardly any energy required therefore no bucks to be made. So the real money goes into drugs, where the real money is made. They can't cure disease and they have no problem with that because the longer you live with some ailment the more money you make. Think about what the documentary said. There are no side effects, only several direct effects. The body is a comlex entanglement of hormones and neurotransmitters.
Thats why holistic approach is best. Why isnt this sound science yet, its completely obvious. Everyone keeps bringing up the 1 or 2 people that are flawed that need a drug, but a much larger percentage of the people you know are on drugs, are they all flawed? Drug funded science wants you to believe they are.
the solution to your problem is taking a great interest in science yourself and learning as much as you can so as to be able to see through any flaws in the methodology. that way you yourself can detect the frauds.
if we had a population of scientific people, then no matter where the money came from tehy would not be able to put out flawed studies.
but of course science takes effort and intelligence and some people would rather believe in magic because it is easier. so we will always have a segment of the population who will be able to be fooled by groups of people with money, and people who are untrusting of science due to their lack of understanding and the few bad apples.
"We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces." - Carl Sagan
Let me explain something to you Brandon, sceintists don't get the money you are referring to and therefore have no interest what so ever in perpetuating desease. We don't make much money at all. The big money goes to drug companies and doctors, not research scientists. I write grants for people, meaning I research their topic and make a presentation, then I show it to organizations that give out scientific grants. Their are plenty such organizations that will fund this type of research. They fund all kinds of research that has no potential to make big bucks, like cosmology. Its a tax write off for them for one, and they also happen to care about the qaulity of every day peoples lives. The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation comes to mind first off, I believe they would jump on the chance to fund research that would reduce the amount of prescription drugs prescribed.
So what does motivate most research scientists if it isn't money? Well, that of course is differnet for each scientist. What motivates me is the pure love of discovery, curiosity, and humanitarian concerns. Also, I will admit that I would love to make a name for myself as a capable serious scientists. I know that is a selfish concern, but I am only human. Most other scxientists I have come into contact with are motivated by these same things in varying degrees. If we wanted to make money we would apply our mathematical skills to finance, those guys make tons of cash and have the same mathematical back ground as us.
The problem you are pointing out stems from the fact that often when you get a grant, the research you produce belongs to the people that funded you- not you. Therefore if the results you provide are detrimental to their goal they will destroy it, spin it, or hide it. Scientists simply do the research and report the results, what capitalism does with that afterwards is not our fault and past our ability to effect.
I will say this, which often gets me into hot water where I work, we scientists are staying too quite about this problem. Why, because we want to remain funded and keep working. I don't agree with it, but it's true. The team I work with is currently studying how certain chemical compounds produced in a certain manufacturing process effect the environment. The university I work for was funded to do this by a grant from the very manufacturer in question. So, if our research proves these compounds harmful or apt to get in the water table and so forth, what do you think will happen to it? Is that our fault?
Right, and all that you've said implies conspiracy theory on a massive scale, all around the world. Isn't that a little bit suspicious to you? A world wide plot that keeps the real knowledge away.
That is quite insulting to people who work every day, very hard, in laboratories, around the world... just for you so you can prolong your life a little bit more.
No I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but I do believe in the power of money.
OK so what do think who will earn more money? The man who will find the cure for cancer and the companies producing it, or the ones who will try to suppress that cure? Just a thought.
What do you think, how much will profit those who will offer the cure for cancer?
"OK so what do think who will earn more money? The man who will find the cure for cancer and the companies producing it, or the ones who will try to suppress that cure? Just a thought.
What do you think, how much will profit those who will offer the cure for cancer?"
The one's that try to suppress it.
'I know that does sound very controversial, but lets say someone caught wind of my experiments that looked like a sure fire way to cure cancer. Now if its a 'pill' then I think someone will want to make my drug and we are all rich and hero's, but what if the cure isnt a pill? What if its proof that something like the Gerson diet is the answer after all. Now some company with a pipeline of cancer 'treatment' drugs catches wind of this, wouldnt it be cost effective for them to put a bullet in my head and burn down all my documents?Think about all the money they spent on their drug creation, the studies needed for FDA approval and etc.
you are a not a "freethinker" if you just believe anything you want or experience. you are a noncritical thinker if you do that. a free thinker is a critical thinker who looks at things objectively rather than subjectively.
freethinking is not a euphemism for believing anything.
when you said to me "because it makes me feel good" what were you referring to?
it makes me feel good to think i can fly, but if i decide to jump off a high cliff that belief which makes me feel good could make me feel dead.
I don't try to believe in something because I 'want' to believe in it(I really do try not to do that) I believe something because to me it makes the most sense. However, if I do 'experience' something I do want to know why the experience happened. ex.Is it just the brain and integrated firing of different neurotransmitters or is there something more than this deterministic viewpoint? I believe its a combination.
When I said "because it makes me feel good" I meant why choose a path that doesn't gives this experience. If collectively as humans we all feel good from the same cause, we could just say we like the way fairytales make us feel good or there is an inherent position within us that requires this faith to fully function and be happy.
Now if faith doesnt make you feel good, then you are locked into a reductionist attitide about the brain that we are in fact just super computers and consciousness is just as Vlatco stated fully created by the brain. I believed this for quite awhile. And I guess I just fealt oh well, life goes on.
But after more periods of thinking, and with the internet and widespread ideas becoming more openly available, I realized that our reality as we see it is probably way off. So why should I just accept what science has told us is real? Sure some free thinkers probably are jumping way ahead but could the Newtonian thinkers please speed things up a bit.
Back to my box theory. We live in the box. We agree there is another box outside of ours. I just dont think you realize how big and BIZARRE this outer box is.
i believe science is a method of looking at phenomena and understanding it as objectively as possible.
what we have discovered using this method you can say is within a box and what we have yet to uncover is outside this so-called box...but the nature of science is that it is constantly expanding what we know. that is not to say that everything we know changes, somethings never will change. it will always be true that the earth orbits the sun, not vice versa, or that heat evaporates h2o.
sure there is a possibility that outside of the box presently are things we cant even think of. but it doesnt negate what we do know. we do know that humans are an animal and have a propensity to make up superstitious claims in order to cope with their lack of knowledge. knowing this we need to be suspicious about supernatural claims that cant be tested.
I agree with all that..
But I'm just telling you (I believe) this outside box of reality and knowledge is HUGE. If our current concept of defined existence is a grain of sand then actual existence is a beach.
So if given a clear glimpse of this beach I think I would hear you say"HOLLYYY SH*TTTT"
But yes we can't apply every little bit of snake oil mumbo jumbo to this. I'm not trying to. I just look at everything and try to see what makes the most sense.
"But I'm just telling you (I believe) this outside box of reality and knowledge is HUGE."
"So if given a clear glimpse of this beach I think I would hear you say"HOLLYYY SH*TTTT"'
"But yes we can't apply every little bit of snake oil mumbo jumbo to this. I'm not trying to. I just look at everything and try to see what makes the most sense."
and i suppose no one can fault you for that. one thing i like about your responses is the honesty and sincerity in them. the ability to admit that you might be wrong. its very refreshing when constantly dealing with cookie cutter theists. so i give you props on that.
if you like to read can i suggest reading the book The Demon Haunted World by Carl Sagan? its a great book that explores why some groups of people (like you) see things a little more "mystical" than groups (like me) and its not insulting in any way.
Here is a nice quote from a review of that book:
"This book challenges the reader to critically scrutinize information professed by supposed experts, and be more of a skeptic. Sagan states early on in the book that "some 95 percent of Americans are scientifically illiterate." By using the scientific method combined with a little bit of logic and common sense, one should find that it is much more difficult to be mentally taken advantage of by pseudoscience "experts." Intelligent inquiry and analysis of information presented, and those presenting it, proves to be an invaluable tool."
I am certain this book is great so was Carl Sagan but it was written in 1997, we have made major leaps since then.
So i would suspect most of it stands and some of it is surpassed.
Where is Edward Witten at these days?
well the topics it covers are peoples experiences of the supernatural or UFO's and the methods that pseudoscience uses to trick people who are scientifically illiterate for lack of a better term.
You are absolutly incorrect to assume that people like me never think out of the box, or always think science is the answer to everything. Science has its place, the medical field for instance, or engineering. But would I use science to write a poem, or create a work of art- of course not. And these things have value, just as much value as science in fact. But we created sciene to serve us in areas where we need exact, real world results and can not afford to make a mistake. If the medical feild isn't such a place then what is?
There also exists the field of scientific philosophy. Here peoople philosophize about what may be, even though they can't prove it. This is where the multiverse theory belongs, if you ask the vast majority of real scientists. Why, because the theory states that we will never interact with these other universes, never have any observation or direct physical proof of their existence, only hints and possibilities based on mathematics and other evidence.Therefore it cannot be considered normal science. This is highly debated right now in the scientific feild, but what I have stated seems to be the current prevailing opinion.
Are you really under the impression that people like Einstien who concieved relativity show an inability to think out side of the box? What about quantum mechanics, surely you realize these peope had to think so far out of the box that when they finally figured out what was going on and proved it most people still cannot accept it, its just to unintuitive or "out of the box".
Don't take things so personal Brandon, then you will not feel the need to belittle people or limit their abilities without even knowing them.
Save a dance for me in the 4th dimension... or perhaps we are even rocking it out right now ???
8 minutes in and struggling already! I blame my childhood.
1st- I never thought you were attacking my ego, my ego isn't involved here because these are not my opinions nor my theories i just agree with them. 2nd I never said nor insinuated you were any thing less than intelligent, nor would I. 3rd this is not simply adding on top of existing knowledge, it is directly conflicting with existing knowledge. 4th Who ever said you couldn't state your opinions? 5th Sorry, but if you think the scientific method is not the best way to discover physical proof, that publication and peer reveiw count for nothing, then you are disagreeing with the people I mentioned.
And just to make this clear to everyone, I do not think someone needs a college degree to be intelligent and have something of value to offer. Anyone who does in my opinion is a snob and has not experienced the every day genuise that everyday people exhibit all the time. I have no issue with documentaries like this one as long as they state clearly that these are opinions and not established facts. Why not just say cells exhibit consciouse like behaviors? Why not just say that a cells ability to react to its environment is symbolic of the connection between our minds and our environment? These statements get the same point across as what they said but, it is clear they do not make bold unproven assertions- simple as that. Then people like me would have no grounds to complain, our "look out you are being scammed" detector wouldn't ring so loud that we have to turn it off. And finally, if they really believe what they are stating is scientific fact, why wouldn't they go through the correct scientific process- then this program might be spread like wild fire, become accepted treatment, and they would get real credit for their work. If your uiltimate goal is to really help people this simply makes common sense. If your ultimate goal is to sell something though, then it makes common sense to do exactly what they have- make a documentary, its cheap advertising, makes it easy to fake legitimacy, and avoids the problem of the scientific community shooting down your assertions.
Hi Waldo, just got back from the jam at the bar, had two glasses of wine to relax,and thought about our exchange on my walk back. Beautiful quiet evening in the street.
I read one day: You come from nowhere, you go to nowhere, in the middle you exist. Knowledge is sort of the opposite of that. It comes from somewhere, it is going somewhere, in the middle it exist.
At all moment of life the existing knowledge has been eventually accepted as the truth by the thinkers and then it was proven slightly wrong and sometimes completely wrong and then a new actuality took place.
People always thought they were closer to "knowing", and this is still true for now. In a way science is after omniscience but it is patient. We are reaching the boundaries of discovering the physical world, of course we can go further into the universe and say there are multiverse and what after? We can also go into the micro and divide and divide and divide and come to understand where we come from.
But what is the frontier to cross that is still untapped? In my opinion we are at a threshold of discovering the non physical. How are the scientists of today with the rules of today to experiment with that world?
sorry this comment was posted before it was finished, i must have pressed on something. I quite possibly would not have sent it as such. But i am tired....and will continue tomorrow. Just know that you are right again in a lot of what you say...especially about the part where i made you feel like i was accusing you of being an ass.
It was wrong in my part.
I don't have to convince you that evolution works, has always worked and will continue to work...you already know that and we agree.
Where we differ is that you *appear* to want evolution to remain in the physical world and i say we are about to go beyond that.
What made the apes get out of the forest did not happen overnight, it did for a few but it took a long time until it happened for many and it brought us to humans typing on a screen similar to the one i am typing on. As Degrasse Tyson says our difference in DNA with some apes is only 1% of our DNA. See how much different we are, imagine an other 1%.
So i do that, i try to imagine 1% ahead and what i see is an other BIG leap, this one is a jump out of the physical world and into the incorporeal. What does that mean exactly...i don't know the same way that an ape in the forest couldn't have predicted me being here this morning.
I like to think that this is in the process of happening for a few ALREADY, the same way a few first apes waked out of the forest. Who are they and how? I have no clue. I am not saying Braden, Lipton, Radin, Wolf and the likes are levitating, i am saying they are part of the evolution of man accessing an other dimension. The are pebbles in that step.
You want the scientists that are walking off the table to be published and i answered why would they? Who is willing to listen to them in the physical science dimension? In a way they are being published way beyong what the journals could do, they are published by the population. Is there a possibility of this going wrong for some...YES...because it is not understood rightly. There are too many people walking in the dark because they are blindfolded by the rules we live under.
Am i trying to convince you? Am i trying to convince myself? I am neither. I am already convinced and as a scientist would, i am talking as much as i can about those thoughts in order to prove myself wrong. SO far it hasn't work.
I re-read this three times (and still i have to edit myself numerous times), to make sure that i don't come-on as pushy, rude, ass, belittling, or even giving the impression that i think i am above others. I walk hand in hand with all ways of thinking, i have noticed a long time ago that in all voices there is something i can gather and use.
You're such a pushy rude ass! lol
the evolution of man to ape did nothing to take any thing out of our physical reality.
i dont see how a change in DNA could lead to any metaphysical consequence. all evolutionary changes have remained completely natural. nothing magic or spiritual.
its a lovely thought, but i just dont see any reason to believe it.
but i could be wrong.
I see how a metaphysical acquiescence could lead to a DNA change though.
Of all the possiblities of transformation, this could be the grandest to date.
but how can a DNA change lead to a metaphysical consequence. what would be the process by which the physical interacts with the metaphysical?
I changed it to: I see how a metaphysical acquiescence could lead to a DNA change though.
Don't waste your time editing Asilda, your the key reason I come on here, rock on I love your posts!!!! I also love the work of Braden, Lipton, Radin, Wolf + more. I believe we have already gone beyond.
Wow, and I don't mean that in a good way. It was tempting to stop watching after hearing "perfect as we are" and looking back, I'm disappointed with myself that I didn't.
Why aren't we perfect as we are?... I understand what you mean , but what is perfect?
I think what he meant is we are perfect, if we 'choose' to be. We do not need to fix anything. In the context of the movie, a pill will not fix something broken within us, only our will can do it.
Our will can only do so much. Would you recommend a diabetic stop taking insulin and instead 'will' themself healthy? I think this quote is appropriate here "anyone who wears eyeglasses or uses sunscreen has confessed his disinclination to live the life that his genes have made for him." We can choose to believe we are perfect, but it doesn't change the fact that we have our flaws, in more ways than just our health.
Well Im not in agreement with all of the doc, but in regards to medicine and health, on the whole I do believe most of what is prescribed is just masking symptoms. And when we do treat the body as a whole most of the diseases can be erradicated by the body. Thats not to say drugs don't have a place but we are taught to believe that drugs and westernized medicine is the key.
I dont know if you have seen Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead but two obese men with urticaria(autoimmune disease that causes erradic painful rashes to breakout all over the body) were freed of their steroid medication by eating a plant based diet and some excersize. Both men lost over 100 pounds and feel great now.
Now if most of what ails us is preventative why do spend more money on treating a disease than spending the money on keeping us from getting ill in the first place?
THIS IS JUST MY OPINION (borrowed on theories and some evidence) so please dont lose it here....
...here are a few diseases that should not exist when the body is treated as a whole.....mind,body,spirit
Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
all autoimmune disorders
(and almost all mental disorders)
type 2 diabetes (maybe even 1, as I think something early on caused the pancreas to fail, excess sugar, or possibly autoimmune)
almost all heart/artery diseases
many if not all cancers
of course there are some things that obviously pure genetic flaws and or flaws that are beyond a holistic approach..fetal alcohol syndrome, chromosome disorders, etc (and it drives me nuts that these kind of things are NEVER mentioned in most New Age docs)..
How much in this doc will become truth....
"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it. "
I'd really like to dissect this doc piece by piece with everyone here. I do feel like half is correct half isnt on this one. Too many bold statements being made by some of the individuals (Bruce Lipton) regarding things that I doubt have really been looked much into. The comments on placebo effect and Prozac are a bold opinion by someone not in that field. It's better to just say Prozac seems to blunt some of the depressive feelings without really getting to the bottom of what the depression is caused by.
And much of the doc is like this. I agree with a lot though. But I feel like a lot of what could be some great stuff is getting mixed in with some of the real snake oil.
I finally did watch the doc, well most of it, I nudged some parts fast forward. hehe
Let me tell you there was absolutely nothing that I did not know already, all this stuff is old hat to me.
I agree with the fight or flight response that in this day is basically prevalent.
Makes a lot of people stay in their comfort zone, but stress to some is not the same, or even stress to others.
Placebo effect 1/3 healing? don't know about that, need proof! Drug company's governing people's lives, some truth in that.
I know the people on this doc said not affiliated with scientology at all, but the stuff about getting rid of baggage of the mind, guilt, etc: smacks of scientology to me.
A lot, a lot of testimonials with out any proof or empirical evidence, sources etc: what studies are they talking about concerning consciousness? direct me to the peer review sources, so what this doc basically means to me is this is nothing that I can take to the bank. Sorry.
1. good for you
2. i agree, same here
4. Partly Right again
5. don't know, don't want to know about scientology, don't care for Tom
6. Right again, could take years for peer review to happen. The "banks" prefer to get enriched by peer reviewing.
I have to say that this movie is good for one thing, it will open the eyes of people who are blind to their own potential and i believe they are numerous.
If one already think or feel that he/she is powerfull enough as is and that the power (that is above oneself, any kinds) will take care of the rest, then this is not for that person or may be it is.
In a movie like this, most can gather something...for some it may be just a phrase, for others it may be the whole, and for some it may be that they see only negations, even that is good as it strenghten what a person takes for his ow truth.
It beats watching the doc Come Back Buddy according to it's comments.
I love this movie and all it stands for. I love how we can each decide to think freely about how we view the world. It is no ones job nor right to try and belittle how another human views their reality. Its so sad when the human ego goes this far, the need to be right, the need to belittle, the need to control, the need to be nasty and to minimize others in order to elevate oneself.... I think that we should all be encouraging and supporting one another on our journey through life no matter how we chose to see the world through our different eyes.
There is nothing wrong with earning an income doing something you are totally passionate about, it beats working for a bank or in a desk job with no appreciation in a faceless or soulless corporation. The world be a much happier place if we each lived our life's purpose. Each of us in this film are alive with passion and are totally inspired by what we do, why? Because we totally believe in what we do and how each day we help people, and that is all the recognition we need.
This film was developed to offer another perspective. Perspective comes from the word perception. It is wonderful that we each perceive the world individually, how boring if we didn't. Allowing people to think freely is what we should each be aspiring to, not to control each other.
Perspective- Latin: per, through + specere, to look.
Perceive- Latin: per, through + capere, to take.
You shouldn't just make something up and put it out there.
If you've noticed below the names of these people they have their occupation. Here's what we've got among others:
Access Consciousness Practitioner
Heart Rate Variability Practitioner
Body Talk Instructor
Medical Doctor and Healer (WTF is the difference)
Positive Psychology and Joyologist
And a semi load of New Age bullsh*t.
We were talking photos the other day, i just uploaded a site with my name (click on the blue azilda). A few pics many of you have seen already from my past myspace file. Still a little bit of modification to do, more to come.
Would love to see some of yours posted this way.
Az, nice pics, don't forget the naked stuff of you as before!
It's there in the sub page...dig.
By the way, where's your comment on this doc?
And after months and months, i am still waiting for a photo of you...nothing naked yet, let's start slowly...now you really have my email. I said i was going to continue flirting with you until Lady Gaga get jealous...i got to stay with my words!
Nice pictures Az! Good job.
I'll send a few of mine but how do I do that?
the site is called wix(dot)com, it was lenghty to set it up but very easy...2-3 hrs
Looking forwards to seeing some of your shots.
OK, found this! ;)
What I love about life is that there are so many perspectives. It takes everyone's ideas and perspectives to contribute to the world within which we live. I read a beautiful saying yesterday that seems highly perfect here. Just because someone is walking down a different path than you doesn't mean that they are lost. (I do apologise I don't recall the source). Isn't it fabulous to have such diversity online. And every person has their own ability to choose whats right for them, influenced sometimes by science, sometimes by education, sometimes by a person they feel inspired by and sometimes by their own internal compass of the world.
Cells don't have our equivalent concience neither do monkeys, worms, birds, parasites, jelly fish..ect
Does it mean it doesn't act conciously?
If something evolves, if something lives, if something is...what makes it be IT?
Does a tree have concience? How are we to know? What kind of concience are we looking for beyond the stars?
it says a jelly fish does not have a brain...may be a jelly fish is a free swimming brain.
Azilda if there are any posts I love to come on here and read they are yours, you have a wonderful way of being able to look at both sides and come back with consideration and profound thinking. You sound to me like someone who has read, researched and explored many different subjects. Thank you for allowing me to think in ways I may not have before.
Well thank you. As i wrote on a different doc yesterday..Dig under the arguments and fights, there is always topsoil under weeds.
I love gardening vegetables and ideas. It's all a learning process.
"Dig under the arguments and fights, there is always topsoil under weeds" - Love this!!
In a bigger scale and with a bit of exageration on my part, i imagine the board who review papers would have a similar reaction to Bruce Lipton presenting a well put together document.
"I also dont want to say much since i havent watched the film (and wont)." Epicurus
I have high regards for your opinion most of the time but here i must say i don't, you have said quite a bit already. I prefer Waldo's approach, at least he is willing to talk from having viewed it. Now waiting for Achems...how should i say...sarcastic twist....lolol
i did look up all the people in it and know that it is not worth my time.
everything that needs to be said has been said numerous times by waldo.
So you really think Waldo has more "unquestionable truths" than Bruce Lipton has? If i compare the experiences, the years of research, i wouldn't bet on that...although i think Waldo is a mighty smarty.
I'll back off...sometimes book educated people are funny, or may be it's just me who is hilariously illarious.
Like i said, even Newton believed in alchemy. just because you have degrees that you got many years ago doesnt mean you still have the same skeptical mind. many things could have changed him over the years (lipton) to make him abandon the scrutiny and rigor that comes with real scientific research.
i think waldo has certainly demonstrated a more objective mind.
See this is where you guys get off track horribly. No, waldo has no absolute truths, no opinons that count for more than you or anyone else. He never claimed to either, not once. I am not stating my opinions, I am stating scientific information that has been scrutinized by people all over the world for years. I am defending a process that makes logical sense, has been proven time and time again to be the best process we have for discovering physical truth, and has evolved over hundreds of years. To disagree with points I am making means you disagree with the greatest thinkers this world has ever known- Newton, Bacon, Descartes, Einstien, Planck, Hawkins, and countless more. You guys want to think you are just disagreeing with some guy that may hold a professional scientific degree, but has never publish and isn't well known. Its a much more readily defended position than disagreeing with such mental giants, so I can see why you might want to look at that way- but it isn't the case.
Besides that, you can't have it both ways. You want to credit Bruce Lipton because he has published, is well known, holds some scientific degree and standing in the scientific community- then in the same breath you dismiss the scientific findings of countless others that are even more well known, have a much better standing in the sceintific community than Bruce Lipton (whom I never heard of until watching this doc.), and have much more impressive credentials and experience. In fact you dismiss the entire scientific process. So why is it you feel Liptonn should be given so much credit, after all he is supposedly a scientists. Could it possibly be because he says something you agree with, for whatever reason. Sorry but that isn't called learning Azilda, thats called reinforcing pre-existing ideas and preconceptions. Which happens to be the exact opposite goal of real learning.
I run into this a lot at the community college where I used to attend and now am the assistant to the head of the chemistry department and manager of the chemistry lab. If we try to teach the kids concepts that are not already accepted in the community (like evolution or cosmology), we get tons of angry simpletons upset that we are "indoctrinating" their children with liberal ideals. My question to them is what is a university for if all we do is reinforce existing ideas. The children woulld be better off going to church if that is what they desire. In science we teach what the data tells us is truth, whether it is pallitable or not, whether it impowers us or not (personally I think truth always impowers us). I understand that believing this stuff may impower you to control your emotions better, or live a better life, but that doesn't make it true.If I could believe that when my dad passes, which is just around the corner I fear, that one day he and i would meet again in some lovely peaceful place called heaven- i am sure this would help me deal with his death more easily. But that doesn't mean i can make myself beleive something like this that goes against every bit of logic and experience I possess. My mind doesn't work that way- truth is truth whether it is hard to deal with or not.
Come on, i am not trying to attack your ego, i am responding to Epicurus who wrote: "everything that needs to be said has been said numerous times by waldo", as if all that needs to be said was it.
I am not disagreeing with the best scientists in the world into what they have established, i am saying there is more....and when and if more is proven by other people, as it has always been the case, these scientists will agree too if they are still alive.
There is nothing easier than arguing with an educated person, especially if you don't have a degree yourself. They always think anything you say is stupid and uneducated. I don't claim to know more, i just claim to think more than the average "uneducated full of fear of talking" sheep and i don't see a law that says i can't express these thoughts.
Since I have read all the posts.
I guess I have to watch this doc, have probably saw many similar like "the secret" etc:
I go along with the posters that have a scientific bent, like Waldo, Epic, etc: so we shall see. Personally, I think it is all "QUANTUM", don't get me started. lol
what i mean is that although you may not be able to reference it in your science or medical exam or thesis. your curriculum is irrelevant to me.
anyone who is against any kind of holistic approach. or against spirituality in form is going to have a bloody time trying to eradicate it.
enough said. I liked this documentry...
Almost without exception, the first question to proceed from a child's mouth and the last to proceed from someone on their death bed is: "Why?" The mere fact that why is the one question which science has thus far been unable to codify, and is invariably the one which the judiciary seeks to play-down, suggests to me that this is, in fact, the single most important question ever asked -- the one which defines our very existence.
The simple reality that there is a part of us that wants to know why is, for me, the very proof of our soul -- the essence of our conciousness -- without which, there would be no purpose.. no discovery.. no science.
I find it sad that people are so hell-bent on finding some mathematical explanation for our existence... Because, if we ever DO manage to demonstrate that we are nothing more than bio-chemical machines running some sub-atomic software program, then what becomes of our value as living beings? ARE WE still "living beings" after that?
Finding such a rational disconnect from the divine has been the goal of every Adolf Hitler, Pol Pot, and Julius Caesar throughout history. So I choose to place less importance on the whos, whats, whens, wheres and hows than I do the whys. And I think this documentary seeks to provide a greater understanding of the whys; even though it is bridled by the presumption that the why is irrelevant, and that only a fool would even ask the question.
my favorite line from the doc, and its huge..."Shut down the fast food outlets.."
""But, keep saying things like "...cells have consciousness..." or that a cells ability to react to out side stimuli represents the connection of our mind and our environment, and they will ignore it just as they should.""
By this, you imply that cells DO NOT have consciousness. Please state for the record --with appropriate scientific data to support-- exactly what you believe consciousness to be, so that I may decide whether or not I agree with your assertion.
O.k. so now the standard for having consciousness is that I can't prove it doesn't. In other words we should just assume everything is conscious unless proven otherwise- rocks, trees, pine straw, shoe laces, etc. Where have I heard this flawed line of reasoning before, oh yeah the existence of God. I know this flawed line of argument well- if I can't prove he doesn't exist then it’s possible that he does- if I can’t prove cells do not have consciousness then it is possible they just might. This seems to be a very reasonable line of argument on the surface, but let’s scratch just a little deeper.
It’s possible, but is it reasonable to assume? Of course it isn’t. If it were then we could assume everything is conscious now couldn’t we. It is much more reasonable to assume that only if we can discern consciousness in the actions of the conscious agent or by some test should we assume its existence. Now, does a cell act in ways that would suggest it is individually conscious? Does a cell possess the physical attributes we associate with consciousness, like sensory organs and a means of processing information? The answer is of course no. Every test we have for distinguishing consciousness, and there are several, are tests done on the brain. They look at things like communication between the frontal and temporal lobes of the brain, neural activity patterns, etc. Do cells have a brain or anything remotely like a brain? Again, the answer is no. Therefore it is much more reasonable and applicable to common sense to say unless you can prove otherwise, which has not been done by this documentary nor any peer reviewed scientific literature they point to, that cells are not conscious.
As far as my definition of consciousness it is just that, my definition or opinion, and therefore carries no more weight than this documentary does. Science has no room for opinions and conjecture no matter who it comes from, scientists included. When we are faced with questions like these that science has never addressed specifically (usually because there was nothing to suggest they should bother with such nonsense) it is best to simply take the simplest explanation that fits all the data, or put simply- use common sense!! We can pose many questions science has never addressed, some because they are legitimate questions no one has thought to ask- others because they fall outside of the ability of science to prove or disprove. This is neither of these, this is one of those nonsense assertions that science quite frankly should never lower itself to even addressing unless someone can show compelling evidence suggesting otherwise. The assertions of neither this documentary nor your personal disagreement are compelling enough to warrant science spending its time and resources on silly things like this.
The film is not just about science, what I like is the did not just invite scientists, but also practitioners a singer to share her experience and what makes you think their processes don't work just because they are not in a journal? Have you researched these people?, Bruce Lipton, Joe Dispenza, Dr Robin Kelly, Richard Moat have write ups in many journals, then you have the likes of Theresa Grainier, Don Pavllovich who have written for many magazines and have written proof of working with people that were prescribe with mental illness and no longer have it or have to take meds, Pat Armistead runs her own radio station and interviews people who have transformed their lives through natural means. From the lectures I have sat in with Bruce Lipton who is world renowned, cells do have a who conscious system operating inside of them, have you researched epi-genetics?, John Francis is not a scientist and yes he talks about how we are all divine, these people are asked not only for their scientific research show me the proof on paper but also their opinions, their experiences. Have you ever had the experience of connecting into that place inside that you just cant explain, a space of knowingess only you can know once you have been there?, a place no science or research will ever be able to explain, this is from my experience and you will never see it in a journal. Have you tried NLP, Access Consciousness, Body Talk?
Science in my opinion has lost its credibility, it has been exploited by the likes of the pharmaceutical companies, google monsanto what on earth are we doing to our food chain. Do we need science to tell us that having living food, conscious thinking, exercise, plenty f water is good for us?. Is a child born with mental illness, cancer, a negative mindset?, no our environment, the people we interact with the food we put into our bodys, the love we receive or do not receive, plays a critical role in how we grow in life.
I like Davids question "Please state for the record --with appropriate scientific data to support-- exactly what you believe consciousness to be", where is your science, proof, data to back up what you are saying?
Now don't get me wrong, I think its good to have different opinions its what makes us human and your posts allow us to think in another way, I just posing back to you what you are posing her to the documentary.
"Science in my opinion has lost its credibility..."
Apparently, as none of the claims you defend are backed by it. I never said the process didn't work, never said a word about the process. I never bothered with the "process" because it is bolstered by false assertions not backed by science. I don't have to study epi-genetics to know there is no scientific proof that cells are conscious, to know that non peer reveiwed material presented as science is dishonest and usually the attempt of someone that has something to sell. So, what are you selling- oh yeah "the process". Maybe you should go center yourself or commune with some grass maybe, hug a tree- you seem frazzled.
Ok I can clearly see we have different realities and that's ok, letting it go now, take care wald0
i have studied epigenetics and nothing about it says that cells are conscious.
I don't like the way consciouness is thrown around in much the same way quantum is. But regarding cells, random mutations within cells and the organism surviving according to which 'RANDOM' mutations best suited its environment has just never sit well with me. My problem was the incredible amount of time needed for such a complex organism to adapt so perfectly to its environement. I always think about the bug that looks like a thorn. Its shape is not somehat like a thorn, it really looks like a damn thorn? How in the hell did that happen so precisely? My only thought was (and this is well before I knew anything about conciousness or epigenetics) something within the species was driving it to change to what it knew would protect it. If it was a cell, a group of cells or the entire organism I dont know, but the DNA in my opinion was deliberately making proteins that slowly changed the organism.
For myself it was the only thing that made sense.
By simply reading about the process of evolution you will come to a much clearer understanding..
Epi genetics....that made me laugh. Don't take my other comment in a bad way. There is a doc on marijuana this morning. I was very tempted to not watch it and bash this production...but let's see.....if you watch this one, i'll watch the pot doc.
edit: at least for the same amount of time
the cannabis one is r*tarded. dont waste your time.
I'll still watch the pot doc and comment when i have time.
I am off to Christina Lake tomorrow...that's put me in the ambiance!
Wald0; I'm so happy you are here and are able to reply to many of these unscientific and illogical posts in a more concise way than I ever could. In the years since, for lack of a better term, "new age" concepts have been around far too many seemingly intelligent people have become believers in ideas with no proof or even evidence. There are of course many exceptions, but a large portion of our population seems to have lost the capacity for critical thought.
I tried watching this but could only get through about forty minutes. It is a hodgepodge of anecdotes.
Thank you Tomregit, but that isn't WHY I am here, unfortunately I just get caught up in it sometimes.I am here to watch documentaries and hope fully learn something I didn't already know, be entertained, and be exposed to other cultures and their respective memes.I try to stay out of the god exists no he doesn't arguments, as well as the science doesn't work yes it does arguments. The former because we can't prove this one way or the other, science can trace things back to nano seconds after inflation but knows nothing about what came before- so all I feel we can really say with surity is that if god exists he does so somewhere back behind the singularity. The latter because if someone holds that opinion, that science doesn't work, even in the world we live in today, where scientific break throughs and information are at work all around us from the time we are born until we die, then you are never going to convince them with simple argument. I mean the proof is all around them, staring them in the face via cell phones, GPS, computers, the list goes on and on- if that doesn't persuade them then they are far beyond my logical abilities to persuade. I got into this one because I thought I was talking to the film maker, or someone at least involved, that was open minded enough to take criticism- and by doing so and taking it into consideration reach a far larger audience. But in the end they did what almost every other person here does, they credit those they agree with and attack anyone that disagrees with them.
You know i used to be a very out spoken atheist. In fact I was down right insulting toward people of faith. I felt it was the best way to try and help erradicate religion which i think does much harm in the world. But arguing with people on this site, considering what they had to say, the fact that they were good people, smart people, even at times selfless- it changed my position. I still do not believe in a god or religion, but I respect other peoples rights to their beliefs and can see a lot of good that religion does for some people and communities. These people also pointed out that science teaches us not to assume anything, just to say "I don't know". Which also helped me change my position- is there a god? I don't know. Its too bad that this type of thing can't seem to work the other way as well. That they would change their position and just admit that in the end the best they can say, even under the loosest definition of consciosness, is "I don't know" and if that is the best you can say that assertions to the contrary make no scientific sense.
I was once a somewhat militant atheist. In my later years I began to feel like Sisyphus. The argument became fruitless and wearying.
i hear ya man.
Project 10:10:10. Amazing documentry. Great adjunct with the book "The secret". Professionals in all disciplines need to take more considerations inthe topics discussed. As amother and and RN I advocate for these theories touched upon.
"Professionals in all disciplines need to take more considerations inthe topics discussed."
Present the information in a peer reviewed journal, conduct the proper studies and post the results honestly and unambiguously- and of course the scientific community will take it into consideration, if for no other reason than to prove it incorrect. But, keep saying things like "...cells have consciousness..." or that a cells ability to react to out side stimuli represents the connection of our mind and our environment, and they will ignore it just as they should. Opening the film with such an ambiguous and nonsensical stement as, "We are divine and perfect just the way we are..." makes no scientific sense either, what does that even mean? I am sure that there is value to what these guys have to say, I agree that medications are over prescribed and that we need a new way of approaching certain mental disorders even. However, if they wish the scientific community to take them serious there are standards that must be met, and this film falls short of those standards by a long shot.
In the first ten minutes of this film I can identify at east three false statemnents, and I am only a chemist, never published. I can also identify several more that are very misleading and only half truths. Now below someone excused this as my opinion, well- sorry but this is the position established by peer reviewed science and accepted as fact by the vast majority of medical professionals- not my opinion, which carries no more weight than the makers of this doc's. How can we then expect science to take this seriousely? If the method works (and I am not saying it doesn't) do not qualify it with false information, posts the methods and results of your experiments in a scientific journal. Every scientific theory is held to this standard, and this one should be no exception.
P.S. I am editing this because after reading it, it seemed to come off as harsh or snobbish. I am simply trying to defend the community that I love and belong to, science. I am not directing any of this in a personal manner toward anyone. You guys, the makers included, seem to be concerned with peoples well being and that is commendable. Cudos to you all, I am impressed and somewhat humbled by such an open display of humanity.
I agree but am tired of this same old argument, over and over, with the same people that never change their opinions or veiws. If it, science I mean, is to be defended any further you or someone else will have to get in the fight, I am out.
i am laughing....i like you...you sound so discouraged! lol
I have been working on an essay the past few weeks but it is finished now so i might be around a little more.
that being said, i have been debating people about this stuff for years now and I have given up trying to convince people. they will believe what makes them feel warm and fuzzy.
if they want to think cells have consciousness, fine. it is clear they doesnt know what consciousness is and are trying to explain away a complicated question with a simple magic answer that makes the world more interesting for them.
but like you said, if it isnt put to the scrutiny of peer review why would anyone take it serious? what does it have to hide from?
I also dont want to say much since i havent watched the film (and wont).
reading the description i saw "They talk about the connection between stress and illness, our ability to make thought more real than anything else and how we can become so obsessed with thoughts about the past or future that we create the very things we obsess about."
i automatically thought, "oh no if i worry about leprechauns they might become real"
bunch of pseudoscience garbage fed to the uneducated and easily fooled. how many books do these "professionals" in the doc have? how many paid lectures do they do?
and joe dispenza? isnt he the quack from what the bleep? red flag goes up, run away!
Your right, not worth the time or effort. Good to see you back around, good luck on your essay.
I agree with much of what you have said here, but I don't understand exactly how much of what is stated in the documentary can be conducted with the proper studies. And by the time a long term study could be properly established and eventually accepted by the scientific community it does seem a lot of good health would have been missed by millions just because they were advised to wait until all this was published in the "New England Journal of Medicine."
As for myself Im still not bought on 'everything' documentaries like this claim, but I plan on spending a few more months reading and watching more and trying to apply some of what is said into my own life. Its not going to hurt to try eating more raw foods or trying to slow down a little, because I don't think you need too much written evidence to point out we are moving way to fast in western society.
Im not a scientist but I am a pharmacist and I see everyday "published studies and peer reviewed double blind studies, yada yada 'studies of drugs that are just bandaids. All driven by money, greed and capitalism. I really think Capitalism loves long drawn out studies because I tend to think the truth is somehow burried in them. There is no collectivism of knowledge, its about competition and striving to one up the other for profits.
Whats gonna happen to the pharmaceutical companies when the best medicine is in fact, juiced carrots and apples?
Perhaps many of the highly educated people that have taken a different direction do not care about being published.
Bruce Lipton PHD may think he has no advantage to go through the science loops, he has done his time, i invite you to review his biography under brucelipton dot com/about-bruce.
What makes one accept the work of a man by the science community? The fact that his work is published in the traditional way or his years of studies and the results of his ungoing research? Obviously in this world the fact that he is published is primordial even necessary to be considered serious business.
I would think more and more scientists will opt for not being published, life is going too fast to spend years trying to get published, trying to convince others that a new way of understanding the mind is taking over.
Even the foundation and conventions of science may have to change with the new discoveries, with this fast pace of life.
I may be totally wrong....i accept that.
Time shall tell.
I know one thing the mass doesn't care so much about papers being published and they are starting to care a lot about self empowerment.
AND as i said yesterday there are exception in every thing. Science approved papers have a lot of good, but they will not remain the only way for long in my prediction.
Wow, this has got to be the end of this for me, this is taking far too much time and is getting really silly. We care about publishing because if you do not publish then no one can scrutinize your work, no peer review. Which would mean everyone could just assert there findings, flawed or not,(in some documentary for instance) and we would never reach consensus, which leads to productive real world application. Also what good is a scientific discovery if we keep it to ourselves? It would seem to me that in the medical field at least everyone would want science to take its due course, but apparently not. Maybe we should just start treating people as per word of mouth and old wives tales.
Look philosophy has its place and value, I enjoy studying it in fact. Religion, and I will surely catch it for this, has its place and uses- though personally they don't seem to apply to me for some reason. Art and abstract thought has its place and value, no one is saying other wise. In fact I love art, play music all the time. But science has its place and value, and the medical field is precisely its place. Just as the study of the physical world is precisely its place, if you are after real world information and applicability that is. It is quite simple to avoid these kinds of attacks, do not try to pass psuedo-science and opinon off as real scientific fact. Then if anyone starts attacking it from a scientific point of view you are quite justified in saying science has no dog in this race. What this kind of doc wants is the legitmacy associated with science without having to adhere to the standards of science, which is never going to happen.
Again it's hard to disagree with you...you always make so much sense.
I spent about 2 hours tonight searching different sights for information on how to, why to, and looking into the "politics" behind Journal Publication of papers. What a mess!
I know you are right to say a consensus has to be established but universities, journals, cost, and the fact that the most renowed scientists are top on the list to be reviewed. This mean this process can take for "ever" or "never" and often time by the time a paper would be published the research is already surpassed, especially in these days and age.
I have no doubts that many scientists have decided to jump over that process if their research is already accepted by a large mass of people especially when the research treats psychology and as i have named it a few times "self empowerment". Why try when they already know the wall they are facing. Let's face it, the science world is not financially supporting alternative ways even though that is probably where the biggest demand is from the mass.
I realize that discussing such subject with me is very frustrating as i am no scientist. So i will let you go to whatever with whom ever and i will just keep thinking in a different way.
I do enjoy your posts....almost always. That's why you are on my follow list.
You are sharp Azilda, and absolutly correct. The peer reveiw process is flawed for sure, it has been invaded by politics and big business like everything else. But, it is still the best we have to offer. As far as scientists skipping the process, if they skip it then their theory will never catch traction or be taken seriously by the scientific community, they will be ostracized for making claims or assertions that have no merit as far as the rest of us are concerned. If a psychologist or doctor go ahead with an untested procedure or process, they can and will lose their job, liscense, even freedom in some cases- in short their carreer is over- no more grant money, no more job, do not pass go, do not collect one hundred dollars, and possibly go straight to jail.
Thanks for lightening my mood, I am tired and frustrated with other things that's all. Just having an off night in general. Nothing a litlle calculus can't remedy- geesh, and I wonder why I am single. good night.
In responce to project 10:10:10 I feel compelled to comment. I am a nruse livng on canada and I have just finished reading the book "The Secret" (Doc available on this site). This doc is a wonderful adjunct to this book. I have been watching documentries on this site for afew years now and and very impressed with what I just seen. I truely feel as a RN an a mother more
professional individuals in all disiplins must take some of these theories into consideration.
it was a bit basic, i was hoping for a bit more. yet i do have respect for these practitioners i find it frustrating that the term 'wellness' is just going to become commercialised and ruined by other practitioners who don't quite understand these concepts.
Should change the name of this documentary to 'mindf--k'
I was lucky enough to be a part of this wonderful film.
What I love about it that it offers those whom intuitively feel they want to take responsibility for their health and well-being, the support and courage to believe and know that they can. I believe there are no victims in this world and that victimization is a perception we put on ourselves. Taking control of our health starts with how we view the world and it starts with self love and total awareness of truth.
Awesome film Theresa! You are are a mover and shaker!
"I believe there are no victims in this world and that victimization is a perception we put on ourselves."
I am not saying this is correct or incorrect, after all it is your opinion and opinions by definition cannot be evaluated in such a way. That said I am curios how you would apply this concept to an infant born into an inescapable environment of starvation and poverty. It is clear that the infant can in no way be blamed for his or her circumstances, further more it is clear that they possess no means of escaping such circumstances as they are wholly dependent on others for even the most basic of needs. Are these infants not clearly victims of, if nothing else, circumstance- even though they are yet to possess the mental faculties to classify themselves as such?
If we say yes to this question, which most people do, at what age or level of development does this label no longer apply? Remember that these children have no means, most of the time, of gaining an education, that their brain never developed correctly because of malnutrition, that since birth they have been exposed to little but violence, death, and misery (through no fault of their own). Remember that unlike most of us these children have no access to basic resources even if, against the odds, they do develop the ability to utilize them successfully. Remember that because of political, social, religious, and demographic reasons it is out of the question to ask them to simply relocate and that even if we could erase these reasons there is rarely any where feasible for them to relocate to. So, when are they no longer victims?
I would agree with you that in the developed western countries it is almost impossible to find a true victim, in every sense of their life. That is, we may have people that are victims of such things as rape or molestation, but they are not victimized in other areas of their life and, they possess the means to alleviate most of the symptoms of their particular victimization. That said I cannot agree that there exist no such thing as a victim in the world at large. The attitude you express is a very productive one, and I applaud your resilience and determination but, let us not forget that the west is nothing like living in Ethiopia or Bangladesh. Not everyone can “pull themselves up by the boot straps” - specifically those that have no boots in the first place, and even more specifically those that may have had boots but do not because we (the west) took them for ourselves many years ago.
This film is rampant with quackery. It is very convincing quackery because specious arguments are being made. For example…
“…we do not have mental illness but rather we do mental illness…”
This film would have been a whole lot better if they just stuck to medical facts. Deceptions and misrepresentations about biological function and medicine undermined the intent and message of this documentary.
song at the end is sooo over the top.
I have been dealing with my brothers brain cancer in much the same way as recommended in this documenatary and I can cagtegorically say that they are spot on. My bro was given 3 months over a year ago. We sorted the diet, made sure he had all the right nutrients to bolster the immune system and also administered heat treatment using a Tesla device. He is confounding the doctors. He was having Chemo but I managed to get him off that with a lot of protesting from the doctors and all those around me who view doctors as sane people. My bro was smart enough to know it was not the right thing to continue taking one of the most poisonous substances known to man and expect to survive. My experience with most doctors is that they are m*rons. That might seem unfair but anyone who reaches for his prescription pad for every malady known to man must be a m*ron and if they think Chemo and radiation treatment is "just the job" god help us all. First class documentary. My compliments to the chef
I enjoyed this doc tremendously! I know from experience that pharmaceutical remedies for depression/anxiety, etc. are ineffective and the side effects are depressing, as well. Love the film and I recommend it to anyone trying to break free from the shackles of prescribed drug treatments for "mental illness".
Pharmaceuticals out number coke, heroin, meth deaths. Man made microbe decease's and viruses -not resolved by pills, and sadly never cure. Certain tuned sonic frequencies, perhaps along with select radio wave frequency, eliminates sickneses at a cellular level. Also combined human conscientiousness may bring healing to a damaged one. I'm no expert, but those who discover truths vanish.
Your first phrase is a home run.
Pharma meds for depression and anxiety are legal and...
they are easy to get as most doctors will readily prescribe them on request
they are easy to pass around as in "can i have one of yours, i am not feeling good today"
they are easy for teanagers to get ahold of as they are normally kept in the bathroom or in the open
they are easily taken in excess and with alcohol...a bad combination for life
let's see what else? They don't work, they just push the problem to tomorrow.
Generally you are correct, that said (in my opinion) you are definitley not completely correct. Science has established through empirical evidence the existence of clinical depression, whether we like it or not. Yes, it is over diagnosed and the meds are over prescribed, but that doesn't mean it does not exist or that it should never be treated with medication. Saying we should never prescribe these meds is no better than the current mindset that leads to over prescribing them, it is an abolute extreme position not backed by science but merely fueled by an intuitive dislike of medications and unnatural intervention. Just as the current mindset is not wholly backed by science and is fueled by the doctors dependence on medications to get results, the greed of the big pharma industry, etc. No matter what illness or condition we are treating we must evaluate each case own its own merits, as per solid science, with the patience's well being as the only goal. If this is done and in the end we determine this patient is best helped by medication then so be it, that is how medical science works after all.
In my opinion the problem is not that clinical depression or anxiety disorders do not exist, they do. The problem isn't that these meds cannot help those that suffer from these conditions, they can and sometimes do. The problem is that they do not exist to the extent neccessary to justify this much medication being prescribed. So, why would doctors over prescribe a medication? The most obvious reason would be of course pressure from big pharma and the potential money involved through kick backs and incentives from big pharma, which could be solved by reforming the system, not doing away with drugs that certain people legitimately need. Even if those people number very little they deserve the help science can provide. Another reason is pure laziness or an unwillingness to dig deeper and find the real reasons for the patience condition, this could also be solved by reforming the system and auditing doctors periodically. If they are over prescribing and can not justify there prescriptions shut them down, simple as that. The answers are there we just have to reform the system and remove all these conflicts of interests as well as the means to so easily profit from such behaviors.
It is easy to sit back and say these meds are useless or they cause more harm than good when you, or a close loved one, are not suffering from clinical depression. I know this first hand from watching my mother suffer from clinical depression and eventually benefit from these medications. She has never and will never abuse any drug, doesn't even drink. She has more will power than most people I know and is very level headed, conservative, and honest. But her life was slowly falling apart due to clinical depression. She tried years of therapy and self reflection, religion, yoga, meditation, etc. nothing worked. Finally it got bad enough we had to take her to a doctor and after much testing and trying therapy and all again, they prescribed non-narcotic medication. Now she lives a nomal life, very healthy, well adjusted, etc. These medications, or at least one of them, made all the difference in the world in the quality of her life, and she deserved that.
We humans have a natural tendency to believe natural is better, and generally speaking it is. But natural means do not always work and when they do not we have no right to deny these people the medicine that could improve their lives based on some intuitive dislike of medication or because the system has failed to prescribe these meds correctly.
I agree with a lot of what you write in your last two comments which includes this one. I was generalizing in mine. I am not sure what the numbers should be to be realistic but my guess would be that more than 70% of people who take the latest depression and anxiety pills are doing more harm to themself than they are doing good.
Firstly because they are postponing to have to face their issues to later and because while they are waiting additional situations accumulate often times.
When pills are given to kids because they are agitated in school,or considered hyperactive then i think the problem is even bigger.
I should always add to all comments that there are exception to everything, for exemple i have often voiced that i support home birth but i also realize it is not for every one. In the medical field there are many people with genuine needs.
Well said, Azilda. I knew i coud count on you to be reasonable in the end, you always are. I just feel passionately about this because I have seen my mother feel so persecuted when people start saying these problems do not exist or these drugs are never neccessary. She is from the older generation that survived the great depression and rarely admit to depression or any percieved weakness, so it took years for her to come to grips with the fact that she had clinical depression. It made her feel weak and useless, and when people start saying those things she has all those doubts and that shame come up all over again. Anyway, thanks for the conversation you always have some insight in the end that is valuable.
the film does not state that these conditions do not exist and it does not deny people the rights to not take meds, it purely offers insights into alternative ways of being and thinking. Whilst Bruce Lipton and Joe Dispensa, speak from a scientist viewpoint the others with the exception of Camillia work with individuals who have/do experience the process of mental illness. I have seen people diagnosed with the extremes of bi-polar, the depths of depression and major anxiety shift through processes's like NLP. Main stream therapy does not always work it drills into the problem and often makes it even bigger than it was in the first place, NLP however looks at the persons unique processes systems, how the have coded their experiences at a sub-modality level, how they can release the suppressed emotion, how they can re-code memories and the results I have seen in others and experienced in myself (post natal depression and depression form life in general) is profound!!, I was on medication and I am in a place now where I know HOW to maintain and continue to change my patterns to live an empowered life. I can not speak for your mother and can only imagine how that must have been for you and her and if medication is what works, like said in the film by Theresa "it is not right or wrong, it is individual choice"
I was simply replying to Azilda, not saying the film said those things. I did watch some of the film, but had sever issue with several false statements in the very beginning. I am sure the film has value despite this scientific misinformation, such as "cells are conscious..." or the half truth that the "brain is the regulator that adds and takes out factors to the blood..." and trust me I can point out many more statements that were either completely false or somewhat misleading. But, like I said I am sure the film still has value, something to say. We do not have to be scientific geniuses to have something to say, John Lennon for instance knew nothing of science but man did he have something to say. That said when people like myself see things like that we have a tendency to blank out the rest, for good reason. Most of the time our experience has taught us that what generally follows is simple new age hog wash, no different than old time superstition only repackaged in modern verbiage to appeal to our spiritual and illogical natures. I am not saying at all that that is what your film contains, I haven’t watched it all so I would not know. I am saying that if you want to reach a larger audience do not have such scientifically incorrect information posing as fact, as many people will immediately tune it out.
I hope you do not take this as an insult. I rarely get to converse with the makers of these documentaries and I am simply offering friendly advice. Perhaps you do not wish to reach this demographic, or you feel strongly that science is incorrect- that is certainly your right. But you seem to have something of value to say, something everyone including the scientifically minded may need to hear. I am only saying that if you would package your message in a doc with no false information, no misrepresented information, people like myself would be much less likely to tune out. I apologize that some people below were rude about this, I don’t think you intentionally tried to assert false information or misrepresent facts, it would appear you simply interviewed some people and trusted what they had to say because it fit your personal experience and message nicely. But trust me, they are misrepresenting the information badly and outright speculating at times. Anyway, good luck with your message it sounds like a positive one and one this nation desperately needs to hear. I for one will over look the bad info and watch the rest, I promise.
Not taken as an insult waldo, we all have our own opinions on what is good or bad according to our perceptions and not always fact. I am not a scientist, doctor or practicing specialist in this area, I just know many of the speakers and the directors that created it. most of them are known world-wide and highly respected.
Yes I agree we do not have to be scientific geniuses to have something to say, but on this topic I would prefer to take advice from experts in their field that have experienced proven results.
Please note I did not interview anyone, I was not involved in the interview process. This is not my film but yes it certainly does fit with my belief and personal experience.
No need to apologize for people being rude, the positive comments far exceed the rude and usually it is because these people simply just have a different point of view and that is our right and personal choice and it is that choice that will create our reality and the view we see in our world.
we are all unique, + and - are one of extremes that exist in the polarity.
Not my cup of tea :)
when i was depressed for mulitple reasons
and i saw a psychiatrist i told him my story. he tried to give me zyprexa and i wasn't interested in taking any meds.
his response was like
"but you don't have to feel this way"
i took the pills for a while and my dad was like how do you feel? and i was like
'i feel like i'm on drugs'
i stopped taking them. . .
now i feel better after a few years without meds and have a much more powerful center than most. which doesn't please me, it makes me sad for others.
If you went to a psychiatrist because you were depressed you didn't make the right decision. Most people who see a psychiatrist have already tried therapy and (generally but not always) the therapist/psychoanalyst recommends that they see a psychiatrist to see if they have a "chemical imbalance" (something modern science can't prove exists and is based mostly off anecdotal evidence). Then the psychiatrist (who is not a real doctor) prescribes "medicine" to treat this alleged "chemical imbalance" if you strip it of its scientific terms what you are left with is something rather sinister, almost like a drug dealer but worse because drug addicts generally know what they are doing will hurt them. Psychiatrists are disguised as doctors, this deceives people into thinking they can find a cure, meanwhile modern psychiatry has not found a SINGLE cure for any of their 1000's of alleged "illnesses" while modern science is considering flying men to the Mars and discovering the evidence that disproves many of the myths peddled by modern religious cults.
Thank you Top Documentary films for sharing this, I know the directors only did one print run to cover costs of the films creation and then decided to make it live for everyone, sites like this open it up to a bigger audience, thank you for being a part of the difference that makes the difference ?
one of the best documentaries I have ever seen. we can change our life if we truly change our perception and our belief. every belief system calls for change of perception. Anger, desperation,grief, anxiety and all other negative thing is generated by our mind and make us physically ill. thinking comes first and illness second. change your thinking and change your life.
number 1 problem- MONEY. I take medication. My doctor and I both know very well that therapy would work 1000%. Even when i had insurance between physical therapy, and regular therapy I would have been paying $160 a week WITH INSURANCE! I know meds cost alot... but I wasnt taken cancer drugs, Im talking about cheap generics.
Organic food, clothes not made in chemical filled sweatshops in foreign countries, and yoga class, pilates, workout machines, gym memberships all cost alot of money. I know, I work in the industry and have chronic medical problems. Its a daily struggle I cant afford. The number one thing that helps me, honestly, is meditation and 12 step meetings. They are free. But what I need and everyone else deserves is healthy food, and reasonably priced help from specialists.
I see the people in this video are joyoligists and life coaches etc... pshhh I bet they charge hundreds a session. Like I said- the problem is money.
i dont often think about the connection of the mind and body, but when i do, the daily documentary on topdoc turns out to be, few minutes later when i turn in, about just that. gotta love those highly coincidental moments!
Cindy 'they speak of pharmaceutical companies having a hidden agenda of profit and growth...' they do, there's no speak about it, and offering alternative views on empowering people about managing their health can only be good. it might be hard to get your head round, but the big "they" certainly don't want us getting too well and not needing pharmaceutics anymore. And yes Skansen79 is right. Google Bruce Lipton. He is renowned in his field.
Why then is it that pharmaceutics were invented in the first place when all you need is the right mindset?
Well i guess that you are replying to the comment about the reason for the invention of pharmaceutics.
Nowadays of cause money is a big issue, but that has nothing to do with big "evil" medical companys. That is just the way it is in the world and in every industry.
Is was actually thinking about a time 5 or maybe 10 thousand years ago. People mixing together different herbs or whatever they might find useful to help people who are actually sick.
And you are saying that they did that for money.
I don´t think so!
If you make self power your reality, self power will take over. It doesn't mean that you will never have anything bad happen to you, it means what is bad to others will feel like an other mountain to climb for you. You will face the difficulties of life like a true climber does, with joy, with excitement and with trust in your self. Sure, you will stumble and fall but it is when you get up and keep going that you will know you're on the right path.
These documentaries about self empowerment are often criticized for claiming results that are not proven in labs, as being too "new age". Most people prefer to believe that life is powerfull and that we are powerless. Humans have created this reality, we hold it together. The way we live life, the way we understand life is there because we accept it as true. If you start accepting different possibilities, you will see that you are not alone, you will then start connecting more and more with people who have made this new reality their everyday life.
Don't come between you and your self. The fooled person is one who has become very stubborn about information borrowed from others. Borrow something new for a change and see if it works...it just might!
Hi Az, thanks so much for the posts and your thoughts, they're very inspiring indeed. In the beginning, the idea of sharing information and hopefully opening up a new space for people to discover new possibilities in their lives was our ultimate goal. Eventually we just figured we'd upload it free, because what better way to share, and potentially help people than if it's right there, readily available at your finger tips and you don't need to worry about it hitting the wallet :-P
I'm sitting here with Darren (co-director), and we both realise as we've read through the comments that we all have different perspectives, everything is subjective and that's what makes life interesting. Every voice has value, regardless of whether it's positive, negative or neutral, and those voices open up new possibilities and maybe through this discourse we can open up something completely unexpected (or not, but that's okay as well).
Thanks again for your thoughts. They're greatly appreciated.
It is a pleasure to read you. I want to congratulate you and your team for putting this doc together and also for allowing access to it freely. I can only imagine how long of a process you had to go through in order to make it all the way to the Web.
We live at a time where many people stay away from self empowerment because they confuse this with endoctrination into a religion. As Linda wrote: "God is relative to the viewer and their interpretation and beliefs." a phrase that encompass everyone, God believer or not. In fact the more you involve yourself in your Self the less you can or want to define GOD.
I like to write poetry, this is a phrase i wrote a long time ago and whenever i do too much or not enough, it comes back tickling me in the frontal lobe.
Immerse yourself in Your Self
Self Importance doesn't hurt anyone
see what a doc can do....make people open, talk, share, argue, enjoy, cooperate, contend, discredit, explore, reach and more...
Edit: your doc will be on the Recently Added Documentaries list on the front page of TDF for 7 more days (as most days only one doc comes out). I'd suggest you make this forum interesting because after that it goes under, filed in the pile. How about you bring one of the presenter, i suspect Bruce Lipton is out of reach? Although the doc appears to be watched by just a few, many people watch and do not necessarily comment. Many people share them on Facebook or Twitter.
I enjoyed this documentary - good perspective on health, healing, and eye opener to those not familiar with profiteering psychological manipulation of pharmaceutical companies. Our physical health is more connected to our mental and emotional well being, and I found a good presentation of these facts.
Cindy; I haven't seen this doc and dont know who made it, but neither Dr Joe Dispenza or Bruce lipton are Scientologists. Dr Dispenza is rather new agey, and was in "what the *bleeep* do we know?" and a few other "cult" new age movies. The other guy is a internationally recognized leader in bridging science and spirit. E.g he has held lectures at a few universities here in Norway.
Was this documentary produced by Scientology? It would be nice to know if they have a hidden agenda here. They speak of pharmaceutical companies having a hidden agenda of profit and growth, but I hear that every training you go through when being indoctrinated into Scientology involves the exchange of money between the participant and the church. Can anyone find out who financed and produced this documentary? Just so we are all clear at the motivation behind it.
Here is the list of presenters, no Scientologists in here...
Bruce H. Lipton – Biologist and Epigeneticist
Robin Kelly – Medical Doctor and Healer
Pat Armitstead – Positive Psychology and Joyology
Daniel Astinotti – Heart Rate Variability Practitioner
Dana Bilbe – Fitness Instructor and Wellness Coach
Joe Dispenza – Chiropractor and Neuroscientist
John Francis – Human Consciousness Facilitator
Theresa Grainger – Neuro Linguistics Practitioner
Rob McIntyre – Health and Wellness Facilitator
Richard Moat – Mind-body Medicine and Hypnotist
Deborah Murtagh – Gut-Brain Detoxification Practitioner
Ross Ormsby – Access Consciousness Practitioner
Don Kaimi Pilipovich – Body Talk Instructor
Camillia Temple – Artist, Singer and Songwriter
Not funded or associated with Scientology in any way shape or form. Mind you, it would be fun to meet Tom Cruise one day :-P
Still 5 days before this doc goes under in the file cabinet...where are the presenters? We have many very intelligent people who come and watch the doc and read the comments. There are many arguments brought forward that could be addressed by them.
PLEASE...It will only take a few hours of a day of their life.
24hrs x 7 x 52 x 60 (average)= 524160 hours, gives us 2
What ever they say, will be immortalized in words for as long as this site lives.
Are you hiring, many people want me to get a job and get away from here? lol
Well that was a waste of time!
Perhaps for you. As of Jan 1st, 2012, I've been on an all-natural, organic diet and have been drinking Kombucha tea everyday. I've been on rx's before (xanax, klonopin, celexa, ambien) and ever since my change in diet, I've been able to wean myself off of ALL prescription drugs. I've also seen my depression completely lifted and my energy levels shoot through the roof. I have amazing mental clarity and all I can think of is how much smarter I feel. I only wish all my friends could figure this out; I am definitely doing my part to educate my circle of friends.
If you think this is a waste of time and love to keep taking your prescription meds, PLEASE, feel free to continue to feed Big Pharma - our capitalist economy needs lemmings to continue on. Cancer is BIG business. I'm just glad that I won't be suffering from that (at least for a very long time).
For those who have been enlightened, feel free to spread the good word of total well-being. I now have ZERO medical costs. Now that's liberation.
Whatever works for you is just fine.
But if they are trying to make it look as if the only adaquate way of treating for example cancer is a psychological issue then this is nothing else but dangerous.
As for my medical expences i can tell you that i havent been sick a single time over the last couple of years. And i dont take any pills whatsoever. And would i need them i would gladly take them cause they most of the time actually do help.
you should share your story for their Project 11:11:11 book, search project 101010film and the information is there. Well done!, inspiring to read these transformational stories
I wrote them a note inviting them to come share additional information in the forum. We shall see.
I am writing to tell you that your documentary was showcased as our added documentary of the day today on TDF. You may be interested in reading the comment forum. It is always a pleasure when a person involved in producing a documentary participates in sharing thoughts in response to the comments.
I myself truly enjoyed the doc!
if it kept you hanging in till the end, it wasn't a total waste!