Srebrenica: A Cry from the Grave

Srebrenica: A Cry from the Grave

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Ratings: 6.07/10 from 56 users.

Srebrenica: A Cry from the GraveSrebrenica, Bosnia, the world's first United Nations Safe Area, was the site of the worst case of genocide in Europe since World War II.

In July 1995, the Bosnian Serb army staged a brutal takeover of the small, intimate spa town and its surrounding region.

Over a period of five days, the Bosnian Serb soldiers separated Muslim families and systematically murdered over 7,000 men and boys in fields, schools, and warehouses.

Narrated by Bill Moyers, this compelling film includes previously unreleased footage and first-hand personal accounts of the 1995 Bosnian massacre.

It follows hour by hour the story of the killings. Through the testimony of survivors and relatives of those who died it explores the pain felt when no one is brought to justice.

There are interviews with investigators from the UN-sponsored court at The Hague and from the UN special prosecutor. But the underlying message of the film is bleak indeed - no matter what is done, it will never be enough.

A Cry from the Grave has won numerous prizes. It has been shown at the UN, and it was used during a war crimes trial at The Hague.

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WTC7
WTC7
13 years ago

@ addy,

The "hopefully even vojvodina" sounded... well, how can I put it... hopeful perhaps? But I'll take your word for it that you don't actually really wish it to happen... :).

Titus
Titus
13 years ago

so, I have read a few comments and I see that some one is stating that muslims and croats did not kill,rape,and or pillage serbs? LOL, I am not even remotely from there and I know better than that muslim and croats raided serb towns and maliciously killed innocent serbs thats a fact. Serbs murdered thousands of muslims men and children from ages 12 to 70+. Muslims throughout history exploit men and boys between these ages and still do to this day. In one hand Serbs were very wrong in doing what they did but muslims and croats did exactly the same thing. Americans have every right to post their comments on this since u all would still be fighting if it wasnt for us and there would be no croatia or bosnian muslims left Fact.

addy
addy
13 years ago

at wtc
i was being ironical, it is not my formal opinion

JustMe___
JustMe___
13 years ago

Please, do not imply bas sarcasm regarding my ability to reason.
Yes, I am aware of the fact I was not there. Being there, you are welcome to share your stories (but please, no exaggerations).

Again - how can you say your view of things is clear?
The "random foreigners" have no right to judge and give some emotional comments, but actual Yugoslavs need to take care not to be carried away by their emotions.

WTC7
WTC7
13 years ago

@ addy,

Hmm, this time I have not misread what you wrote. Your dreams of the future of Serbia are wild and malicious. However, since we're at it, I'd advise you better worry about your own yard and how what you call a country, kept together only thanks to the internationals, is shaking like a house of cards.

addy
addy
13 years ago

at just me
we are not all clever as you are, however it is somewhat funny that you talk about the facts of the war while you were only born after it, and i was there you know, i saw all that with my own eyes, while you sucked your thumb, and pretend that bombardment of bridges (by NATO) is something, i would really love to see your opinion after endless gang-raping done by filthy stinky ‘animals’, while you watch your father f..k your brother with mmashine-gun pointed in his head (mind you it was not a single case, many people during that war have been there… so please, save it

JustMe___
JustMe___
13 years ago

No, I sent you an e-mail (from hotmail) and got no reply.
As for changing attitude... I'll explain it elsewhere. This site should have user accounts.

At the rest - Sorry for being off-topic.

boris
boris
13 years ago

JustMe
quote ''I really don’t like guys automatically change their attitude around girls, it equates hypocrisy (off-topic, sorry, people)....Well, therefore, I am 11 years younger than you, so I’d ask you be careful of how you express yourself……..''- end of quote - that you got all wrong, and i offered my friendship, and my e-mail, you refused, so i must say that you've lost some credibility there

JustMe___
JustMe___
13 years ago

I have written a large amount of posts already explaining it all. If you find it hard to read through and give a proper reply, please do not reply at all. Thank you.

addy
addy
13 years ago

wtc
well, since you admitted, i can say, don't worry it happens

addy
addy
13 years ago

at just me
it would be impossible to write Marko, Jovan; Nebojša, Stevan and another hundreds thousands names did the atrocities, what really connects those people (beside crimes they were committing) is the fact that they are all Serbs, so when i say -only serbs sistematicaly raped women- it is implied that not all serbs raped, and that it was during the organized aggression (that some people mistakenly call yugoslav wars) of serbs... let's not forget that that was the war for teritory for Greater Serbia, well i am so sad that once such a big country is now striped of half of croatia, half of bosnia, montenegro, kosovo, hopefully even vojvodina, and it is now only what is populary called 'beogradski pašaluk' (belgrade canton)
Srbija!

WTC7
WTC7
13 years ago

@ addy,

True, I did get wrong what you said, was obviously going too fast through it.

addy
addy
13 years ago

wtc
you just proved that you obviously don't know much about the topic, i apologize if someone (besides you) got that wrong, let me repeat 38 k versus 16 k is number of total people killed, and number of raped women, as i stated previously is between 20 and 50 thousands

addy
addy
13 years ago

wtc i dunno what you are talking about, that was the number of people killed!!! the number of serbian women raped by croats or muslims is somewhere between zero and several, had you read all the post you would have grasp that meaning

WTC7
WTC7
13 years ago

@ addy,

It is an interesting analysis and a rather strange way to prove a point - that raping 38 k women is an obvious sign of devious genocidal intentions, whereas raping 16 k, during the same period of time mind you, is just some poor men in legitimate need of sexual relief.... Nothing wrong there, huh? Besides, 16 k is peanuts, just a few women, is it not now?! I am sure next you will tell us that the latter always politely knocked at the doors of their victims and asked them if they wanted to be raped... some really nice folks it seems...

Reasons Voice
Reasons Voice
13 years ago

@tomi; My apologies. It was not your english so much as the fact that sarcasm looses context when in print. I whole heartedly agree to your statement that people who were not there have no idea of the complexity. And that they should refrain from judgement. I understand this because of the prevalent world view of the US. The view is that the US citizens are war hungry enablers of bad polititians. That as members of a democracy we controll our overall impact globaly. That is not true and only someone who lives here and is open-minded and aware can know that. In general the people here cannot ever agree. Two people can't agree on what to eat for dinner let alone collectively change the face of our government. Foriegn peoples just can't see that from the outside looking in.
I will not pass judgement for either side in this conflict. I simply feel sorrow for those who endured it.

JustMe___
JustMe___
13 years ago

@Tomi,

Please, don't put us and those "illiterate children counting the dead and arguing who killed whom more" into the same sack.

As I've said somewhere above, I agree with you most of the time, even on the 'disagreement' part, if you read back, you'll see I've stated some things in the same way.

tomi
tomi
13 years ago

to just me_& im from serbia
people i urge you to move your discussion somewhwre else,this site is not appropriate place for it.
it makes me feel bad when i see bunch of ilitterate children counting deads and arguing who killed more or who started first.as ive said,grab some books.
btw,again,this is not suitable place 4 such talks,why?
because there is not only one truth.my truth(speaking from croatian side,as far as its possible to generalize),i believe,
completely opposites your truth(serbian),so there is no room to make those two closer.so what can we do?learn,work on ourselves,to make us better persons.this way if tommorow new conflict begins,and we will be forced to fight again,we will colide more honourly than last time.men are dying by a bullet,sheeps are dying by a knife.
and no,i dont believe in utopistic world peace ideas,simply cause that never happened in whole human history,and im affraid never will be.im only realistically disappointed in evolution of human spirit and im convinced that we may speak about peace loving societies,but in real life that is impossible to happen.
goodbye

JustMe___
JustMe___
13 years ago

@Bris,

I didn't get it wrong, I am just pointing out at things. Maybe you didn't get my point well enough. You are free to ask.

(as for Yahoo, I thought you were referring to IM-ing)

@addy

"from wikipedia (it is all true, i guarantee)"

Ehm... yes... of course.........

@I'm from Serbia

Good point. Don't you find it ironic that those who are so "OPPOSED" to generalizing people based on their nation, race, gender etc are doing exactly that by saying "The Serbs are terrorists" (and many such people do so, as I had a chance to see/hear). What does it apply? It applies a syllogism as following "All Serbs are terrorists. 'JustMe___' and 'I'm from Serbia' are Serbs. Therefore 'JustMe___' and 'I'm from Serbia' are terrorists."
Well, if any of the alleged "peace-lovers" here thinks so (and as I look back, I see they do) let him/her say so!

I'm from Serbia
I'm from Serbia
13 years ago

I'm from serbia and I am very disapointed by this video. They have shown serbs like terorists,but they have not shown what muslim side did to serbs. I am not saying that serbs where good, but the muslim side was not prefect.
I am sorry that many good men died in this ponitless war, but this is afful that these men that had shown this movie said that serbs are terrorists!!!
And nobody from the world can't judge us, because you didn't went through what we went. I would be glad if all those good men didn't die. I would be glad if all those nationalists died instead, and all this didn't happen at all.

addy
addy
13 years ago

btw that's proven casualties, however there's still going on sc promotional war (even here) and estimations are up to 70000 vs 28000, either way, they are always 3 to 1 and not one to one as some people here try to promote

addy
addy
13 years ago

casualties
one side 38000
other side 16000

addy
addy
13 years ago

from wikipedia (it is all true, i guarantee)
It has been estimated that during the Bosnian War between 20,000 and 50,000 women, mainly Muslim, were raped...War rape in the Yugoslav Wars has often been characterized as genocide. Rape perpetrated by Serb forces served to destroy cultural and social ties of the victims and their communities.[30] Serbian policies urged soldiers to rape Bosnian women until they became pregnant as an attempt towards ethnic cleansing. Serbian soldiers hoped to force Bosnian women to carry Serbian children through repeated rape.[31] Often Bosnian women were held in captivity for an extended period of time and only released slightly before the birth of a child born of rape...This occurred in the context of a patrilineal society, in which children inherit their father's ethnicity, hence the "rape camps" aimed at the birth of a new generation of Serb children. According to the Women's Group Tresnjevka more than 35,000 women and children were held in such Serb-run "rape camps".

addy
addy
13 years ago

Vilhelmo
they(official americans) call that pest-control!

Teamtigerpaw
Teamtigerpaw
13 years ago

@TOME Thanks for your post, well said. My view broken down to the least common denominator is mean people SUCK........

boris
boris
13 years ago

btw you don't have to 'use yahoo' to send an e-mail

boris
boris
13 years ago

at just me
you got it all wrong, nevermind, keep the spirit

Vilhelmo
Vilhelmo
13 years ago

Why is it genocide if 7000 die in civil war yet when the US presides over the death a million plus in Iraq it's called democracy promotion? At the same time as NATO's war against "genocide" in Yugoslavia, a far greater genocide was taking place within the borders of NATO itself! Talk about hypocrisy! Hundreds of thousands of Kurds were killed during the 90's by Turkey's military with the full support of NATO countries, most crucially the US.

iko
iko
13 years ago

The use of the term 'moslem' instead of Bosnian Moslem is a deliberate misnomer to provoke all sorts of negative associations. Many Bos. Moslems so defined by cultural heritage are atheists, agnostics and some even Christian, those that are practicing moslems are like your practicing western Christians- some go to church, some tick a denomination in the census box but know little of what that means, some are zealots, some are moderates but all want to live a peaceful life with their neighbours and not have to look over their shoulder to see who has targeted them for 'special treatment'. Sadly the territorial ambitions of their larger neighbours has never allowed a Bosnian/ Catholic/Orthodox or Moslem to live a full life in peace.

JustMe___
JustMe___
13 years ago

Well, not using Yahoo...

JustMe___
JustMe___
13 years ago

How could you know that?
I really don't like guys automatically change their attitude around girls, it equates hypocrisy (off-topic, sorry, people).

Now, back "i am very harsh on ‘my side’, and i dont like when the ‘other side’ act like nothing happened" we do the same thing here.

Basically, I have war experiences (1999) and it was totally beyond my control. Should I go now around the Internet and call every American or other "Westerner" (so-called) 'evil, Anti-Christ' etc, etc, etc?

Well, therefore, I am 11 years younger than you, so I'd ask you be careful of how you express yourself........

I am so out of the hippie-style thinking. I am in a way more of Tomas Hobbes, or even pessimist Nietzsche philosophy.
I am against things like this. They can't even be ideologically "justified" (not in sense of legitimacy, but in sense of 'goal justifies the means') since such tries simply always fail, sooner or later. Although we know that in this war, the majority of mass-killers in those wars (on all sides) weren't much ideological. There was no genocide, really, genocide is much more organized, this was (in many cases, not always) senseless mass-killing for reasons unknown to perpetrators (note: paramilitary formations).

boris
boris
13 years ago

at just me
the previous post was addressed at JustMe__, please do contact me on anaxandar at yahoo . com ’cause i would really love to speak to you further on the topic and, as you would surely agree, it would be more appropriate than spamming the public post, not to mention completely new dimension of discussion once we switch to our native language…
thanx for understanding

boris
boris
13 years ago

at just me
the previous post was addressed at JustMe__, please do contact me on anaxandar[at]yahoo[dot]com 'cause i would really love to speak to you further on the topic and, as you would surely agree, it would be more appropriate than spamming the public post, not to mention completely new dimension of discussion once we switch to our native language...
thanx for understanding

boris
boris
13 years ago

he he i knew it (that you are a girl) don't worry i know that all serbs that matter to me; (well maybe not all, but majority) educated and open-minded, had nothing to do with that madness, and that politics are sometime stronger than an individual... i am from pula and i am 29yo so i had nothing to do with that war either, nor do i blame anyone, however i am very harsh on 'my side', and i dont like when the 'other side' act like nothing happened, so to change the course of history and to enter a new era, let's make love -you and i, and show the world that we are not 'cavemen' depicted in this and similar documentaries... what say you, my dear country(wo)man

WTC7
WTC7
13 years ago

@ tomi,

Don't worry, your English is fine, you were critical about the fact that the focus of the discussion was on the, e.g. UN role in Srebrenica, whereas it should have been on the victims of the atrocities or the atrocities themselves. But try to understand that those who have not been through a war see wars more or less abstractly (no offense intended to any of the commentators), and you cannot blame them for it.

JustMe___
JustMe___
13 years ago

"Boris,

Now you are expressing yourself much better.

Well, victims don't share any guilt, because - if they are victims, it means they are not guilty.
What I am trying to say is - try having some more "neutral" point of view, or try taking up the role of your opponent. I know this is impossible to achieve completely, but partial is enough... for me.

Now, I am a Serb and you are... I assume, a Bosnian Croat, correct? That is, unfortunately, one of the reasons there will be stuff we just won't get along about, which I consider "sad", since we are very closely related people. Yet again, we live on the Balkans. The one who knows Balkan history would understand our points of view (well... more or less, at least).

I never said Serbs are "innocent" ("Serbs" referring to the ones who participated in the war), I just say that some people have too obscure, narrow, one-sided and "emotional" views on the matter (please, pay attention to the word "too").

"real reason was conquering of yugoslavia by dividing it’s peoples by politics and doing nothing and god knows what…"

Well, that is the important thing, even you and me were clearly affected by exactly that.
Wars begin and end. People and "the thought of the mass" is what stays... for a long time.

Again, religion is just a tool, it has always been, even since the first states were formed.
Also, I am an agnostic, so all these stories about God and judgement do not "touch" me at all.

May I ask why are you interested in that? Are you willing to discard the validity of my statements based on my age?
I live in Serbia, female and... surely younger than you. I have no trouble to tell you my age if you explain me the relevance of it (don't take this as an act of arrogance or anything, just curiosity).

(I am sorry if my post seems a bit messed up and confusing, but the reasons are justified... I hope)

I have to add that I agree with Tomi, mostly.

Reasons Voice
Reasons Voice
13 years ago

@Tomi; I don't claim to have any grasp on what happened in your country. I was not there so I know nothing, and leave it to those who were there to figure out. I must say though that your praise of the ideal of indiscriminantly killing those you percieve as opposition shows just how thing like this happen. This was a documentary of the results of the actions of those who think like you do. "bravo" to killing any and all white men in the US in the 40s and 50s to combat slavery? Well 1)slavery had ended in the US more than 100 years before that. and 2) The super-majority of "white men" in America never had anything to do with slavery. By your reasoning and his all the irish imigrants post civil war...Dead. All the German, Polish, Frech, etc., etc. before and during WWI and WWII Dead. You presume to watch a doc. about ethnic cleansing and then prescribe more of the same?

boris
boris
13 years ago

at just me
i read you carefully and i agree with you most of the time, i am beyond any race, or religion, or gender and i know that superficial reason of this war is religion, and the real reason was conquering of yugoslavia by dividing it's peoples by politics and doing nothing and god knows what... i am simply stating that you cannot say that victims have equal share of guilt in this particular case... where are you from and how old r u, if you please?

tomi
tomi
13 years ago

what you people are arguing about?you are living in england or in usa and you have your oppinion about everything that happened in bosnia based on tv news & documentaries...well,im living in bosnia,im croat and i saw the war with my own eyes.still i dont think im welcomed to argue over internet on everything that happened here 12 years ago (only 12 years).
and you go so far to claim who is the victim or who got the blame,youre lamentating about un role,about politics in general,like you understand it?where is the respect for innocent victims-its about them this docu is made?
its very easy presenting your opinions here,but more worthy would be to use them back home,to try to change everything thats wrong in your own backyard.
one of you have said that back in the 60ies he would kill as many of white people as its possible,bacause all whites are responsible for slavery?bravo!thats the peak of comprehensive thinking,i pray to god to give me a visdom to reach this depth of contemplation.
there is much more advanced school sistem in your countries then it is in mine,throw some money to it and get university diploma in politics or philosophy or whatsoever,and then come back and enlight us all.people,you cant read and understand chomskys books,start with plato and aristotle first if youre intrested in politics.brain is like a muscle,so to it goes also "no pain no gain" moto.
again,respect for the innocent lifes lost,leave political comments on some others documentaries,not this one

Reasons Voice
Reasons Voice
13 years ago

Are there realy people out there that believe that the UN would act any differently if their offices were elsewhere? If so please patittion your government to build them a facility and get those egotistical beurocrats out of my city. And while your at it have them pay their fines fees and rent to NY. Bunch of leaches.

JustMe___
JustMe___
13 years ago

@Boris,
Yes, I read what you wrote. Your point is...? Have you read what I was writing all along?

(Make difference between trivial and official)

By the way, one thing at you, Boris, to be honest, i don't mind you arguing with me the way you do and all your replies are expected... for obvious reasons. The annoying ones are those random people who think they can make an "emotional" regard on something they really do not understand.

Linda
Linda
13 years ago

I recall when this mass genoside was first reported here in the U.K. My self and many other mothers wrote to our then Prime Minister John Major and beged him to do something but, our plea's fell on deaf ears and as for the U.N. what were they thinking. My Brother and a team of medics from the war crimes commision arrived in 2000 to try and find the people who had been murdered he is a forensic radiographer He was there for about 6 weeks. Alas Bosnia you have no oil to protect if you had you would have had all the help in the world shame on you United Nations

Imightberiding
Imightberiding
13 years ago

D@mn it all! Are we still in the dark ages? Are we not past all this? When will we be? Will we ever? I am at the very cusp of speechlessness. (I truly am, but thank goodness for this, otherwise I could go on & on with regards to my disgust & anger over this unjust & horrifically tragic scar/unhealed wound on the face of humanity) Frustration, disgust, anger are collectively inept & impotent words with which to describe my state of mind & emotions while watching & being made aware of such atrocities. The grief, loss & anguish of the mothers & survivors is palpable.

Extreme rationale would appear to be one solution, however extremism is the engine by which these criminals drove themselves to this place. Rationality (in this case I am attempting, to make however week an argument that rational thinking is almost always a good thing, except sometimes] can most certainly lead to mediocre results.

So we have on one side a group of unchecked, out of control of the very basic human ideals of life & liberty, dangerously fanatic, psychotic, extremist, religious zealots. (enough adverbs & adjectives?) On the other, a group of ineffective, powerless, unwilling, effectively circumcised beyond all masculinity, (not intended as a sexist remark, only that these people are completely useless & impotent in their capacity to perform the duties they have lead the world to believe they will) "peace keepers of the UN.

Which is worse? The monsters who conspire to torment, torture & kill fellow human beings or the supposed saviors who come to your home & either through ignorance or blatant negligence, lie to you & your family that they will protect you. The result being that you do not run & hide from your enemy or take any more proactive measures towards rescuing your loved ones because you have been falsely led to believe that you are safe!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (@TDF, sorry I just had to do the multiple exclamation points on this one. Please forgive.)

I do not portend that the UN is our salvation against any future tyranny. It is just that the unfortunate reality is this: as long as man is on this planet there will always be at the very least, one with a "great" idea of how to make it a better place to live. Without some sort of referee to observe & metre out even the most basic of all consequences for inappropriate actions, the game will always be decidedly unfair. If we as a cohesive group of nations desiring peace expect to maintain peace to some degree are not willing to actively defend peace then we will never achieve it. Unfortunately peace will not happen by itself because of all the "brilliant minds" intent on some self serving goal. We (those of us sane enough) have to be active in our defense of peace. Not always 100% neutral.

We have the capabilities, can you imagine the lives spared & families restored & future tragedies averted if only the UN or some other sort of world wide organization actually had the b@lls & maintained the ethics of basic human rights on a global scale & wasn't concerned about "political correctness" every time some very real national or international crime occurred. I'm not talking about big brother here. Only about focusing some of our energy & technology towards an ethical end rather than greed for once.

OK, time for all of you to laugh, mock & scorn me for my naive comments.

Peace to you all my fellow brother & sister TDF viewers. Oh yeah, & happy new year!

@TDF: Thanks again for the time & effort to share yet another powerful film with us.

boris
boris
13 years ago

at hilary
no, americans are number one (killers in the galaxy)

boris
boris
13 years ago

at ace
maybe you should ask your mother why is that so, ?obane nepodojeni

boris
boris
13 years ago

btw here in bosnia we call it bosnia

boris
boris
13 years ago

at just me
do you even read what i write???
read again, please -especialy that part with poland, and then think it thru while reading it yet another(3rd) time, jiz

Atabey
Atabey
13 years ago

I agree with Ramus " Another example of religion being the biggest killer in the world. Religion and ethnic categorising must be wiped from the planet if there is to be any hope of global peace."
Viewing the documentary I felt ashamed of the kind of world that we live in. How can men kill other men, women, and children and destroy nature. It's a game for them? Who are those people? How can they condone the lies, the genocide and the cowardice of the UN representatives? The pain and the loss of faith of the people is a testament of the inability of the military to “secure” civilians. Peace will be only obtained by generating and maintaining a world free of inequalities.

Imightberiding
Imightberiding
13 years ago

At the beginning of this thread there was much talk of the UN. I'll toss my 2 cents worth in the discussion. Another example would be Lt. General Romeo Dallaire & the tragedy of what took place in Rwanda. Yet still another ill equipped "peace keeper with the UN". I say this in quotations only because I don't believe the UN actively keeps the peace as much as they could. General Dallaire is now considered a hero by many & a callous criminal by equal measure. This is directly due to his hands being tied & lack of support & a strong defensive that should have & could have been rectified by the UN itself. As a result, try as he might to intermediate & save as many lives as humanly possible I believe Lt. General Dallaire is nothing short of a very brave man & a hero for our times.
I don't mean to get off topic, it just appears to be a horrible pattern & repeat of what the UN does in these situations. Their 100% neutrality has time & again needlessly cost countless lives. I certainly realise the political dangers of choosing sides but surely these wise leaders can see avenues that taken would have been seen worldwide as strictly defensive & preserving of so much lost life.
It happened in Rwanda & it happened in Bosnia & Herzegovina/Yugoslavia & it has happened in numerous other regions on this planet & it will continue to happen until the leaders of the somewhat stable, peaceful nations take a strong stance & give the UN or some such organization the power to act in defense of the week & persecuted. Some earlier mentioned world peace as being Utopian. This is an all too true statement. Were it not, then the UN & all such ideologies would not even be considered. Just go straight to world peace. Don't pass go & give me the $200.
Until we reach Utopia we need a decisive & strong UN. The watered down ill-effective "neutral" UN we had then & have now is as useless as ..... well, you know.

Fractal
Fractal
13 years ago

A good point indeed Hilary, well stated.