TROM: The Reality of Me
The TROM documentary is trying to present, in a simplistic way, the world in which we, human beings, live.
The world discovered so far, not some idea or personal choice. Moreover we tried to present alternative solutions to current problems and took into account the future, which promises to be more than interesting.
An informative documentary, perhaps shocking and disturbing to many, depending on how you digest the information. The documentary is divided into chapters and sub-chapters due to documentary's excessive length.
the background music is a drill to the brain. having a small piece of music repeated billions of times causes brain damage! the content of these videos are fine but the background music is a real problem and makes one reluctant to watch the whole series. i am not sure what did he/she think when put this brain drilling constant torture as a background to these videos?!!! very unprofessional.
Knowledge of the Internet should be free subscriptions to people over 65 years old, nursing homes and retirement communities.
In response to part 2.1, money actually preceded bartering. The producers of TROM should read David Graeber's "Debt."
What's with all the woo woo music in the background. Sheesh.
imagine 15,000 doctors the best monds working one one medication ,or 15,0000 luthiers designing one guitar , think about the type of world it would be when there are no copyrights no built in selfishness in the system, imagine that the world's people are your family and the world is your property free access to collaborate on the construction and engineering of a city if you have a valid view, a world where we all work to advance our selves and the society we live it
Terrifically impressed by the debates on this forum however I do wish you wouldn't keep referring to five senses. I can't speak for anyone else but I have more than five, my sense of direction is quite developed. I easily sense when I'm being watched and then theres the odd ability to find the same point on both sides of a sheet of material with my fingertips. The last I use regularly in my work as a carpenter and I was told and forgot the name of this facility but it is definitely a 'sense', there are others. . . .
On the topic(s) of things wrong with society recommend googling Frank Herbert's BuSab.
[Haven't finished watching so decline to comment on the doc, but the discussions here are great]
Same 'ol story in the end. Some form of communism. This is basically a technocratic communism... but communism just the same. Everything is owned by everybody, except rationed by computers instead of men. Who programs the computers?
The problem with this whole idea is that SOME people just HAVE to be more than equal to everyone else. Men, and women, are competitive animals.
I think the key to our future... if we are to make it better... is to LOCALIZE EVERYTHING... taking power away from centralized, bureaucratic nightmare governments and putting the power back in the people's hands.
Ron Paul has it right. The Founders of the U.S. had it right. Local government and liberty for the people. Low taxes. Local government. Local education, by the family. Local agriculture. Sound money that has intrinsic value. Free markets. Not crony capitalism. Government that protects the rights of the average person... not having it's hand in everything, and showing favoritism to a select few. There is nothing wrong with competition, it just has to be FAIR competition. "We the people" can solve our problems. Governments always seek more power.
Education is key, however. In the U.S., home-schooled children are MUCH better educated and know much more about the problems with our environment than kids who go to public school. Education is the key to the environmental and resource depletion issues.
We are animals. We cannot be managed by computers and stay sane. Competition and ambition are part of our physiology. Look at sports. Why were they invented? Competition.
Just my 2 cents.
I'm 29 years old, and I have recently over the last couple years begun to understand the situation we are facing. And I don't mean the energy crisis, or polotics, or even war. When you start to understand( and i think im still a novice at it im sure, understanding lol....) what the monetary system is, and how long its been apart of us, all of us everywhere and almost everywhen, you get this feeling that not only do things need to change, but that it is finally coming to the point of change. I wish i could believe that the change will be suttle and peaceful. But that will not be what happens. Look at the people in power. The super rich have about as much control over the human population as you could possibly have. Through the media, polotics(armies controlled by governments), religion, fear tactics(devide us), $$$$$$$, energy, food(monsanto). The monetary system has alowed the most corrupt human beings on earth to take advantage of the system, and are NOW in position to control the rest of us like livestock. Its happening before our eyes. And we are letting it happen. Most of us WANT it to happen. I don't know what to do. I make ******* febreeze for a living for christs sake and hate what im doing and how im contributing to this mess. I mean whas more useless and trivial then febreeze? Do you want your house to smell like tropical thai dragonfruit? I mean wtf does that even mean? Have you ever seen a tropical dragon fruit from thailand!? This is not the world i was brought up to believe it was. I was lied to by priests, teachers, family, media, saturday morning cartoons(when they were good!). If we have a change it will not be like how the end of the zeitgeist films show. It will be the most violent conflict in human history. ANd it will be hundreds of years at least in picking up the pieces. The only reason i say this is that the people who want the change, are a small minority and are a very peaceful group for the most part. It will take the violent desperation of realizing how you are being ****** out of the life we should ALL have to seep into the rest of us. And people will be very angry when that realization hits home. The people in power will not let go, and the majority will either rise up, or be subjecated. Its such a mess. I used to say, not in my lifetime. But now im having second thoughts. Things are coming to a head. Time will tell, but one thing is certain in my mind. The wonderful world i grew up in, is defenitely not the real world i now live in.
This is pretty awesome. Ive watched hours, and am loving this. Don't make an opinion on it until after the sub-chapter for the environment. I believe its the 3rd or 4th video on the playlist. If you are still not interested then i would stop at that point. But thats what really hooked me into watching the rest.
ask yourself what nature does... not people... i mean animals... what they do and how they survive and thrive? u might say "but we r not animals" .... Are you sure? where do we come from? what is death if it's not another part of the life cycle? Bad things are the things we don't like, the universe doesn't have right or wrong... we do... (words and abstractions) and here's another thing... when you compete to get someone else's objectives u are competing against nature and your neighbours but when you seek your own U compete against yourself and time with nature by your side...
little pieces of truth carefully mixed with "solutions"... hehehe =o))) it looks suspicious (like zeitgeist that uses some weird techniques and some r used in hypnosis induction [sound, images, flashes, even the voice it's creepy tuned]) First it's telling u that u have to find solutions by yourself then when you love it and your mind is open aha!!!...it gives u "the solution" ;o) English isn't my first tongue (i guess you've noticed by now), and that's why i have to think it first and i have a little filter [I understand every word but my brain does a different process to do it], but for you every word goes straight to your brain. Watch it 'cause it's fun and "the truth" parts are what they are but at least be aware and conscious of it =o) cheers =o)))
Have watched a few hours now - have some issues regarding the claim of J Fresco that figurative language is a problem and that we'd be better off with computer software style languages without ambiguity - so goodbye art. Also, if we don't love each other, what's the point of bothering anyway? More when ~I've watched more...
ten minutes in...its ******* annoying,kinda like an enlightening version of sesame street.
in a monetary system there is no responsibility for anything but profit fact. the monetary system's core is corruption not a byproduct. you have to lie cheat rob and steal to be a part of the monetary system.you can not be competitive without displaying the psychological development of a child fact.for every individual this is a billionaire, a billion people are dying starving and are treated less than ****.fact. if i was a master and you were a slave i could trap you into perpetual debt and interest on your car and house and i would not have to feed you or house you yet your distributing your hard earned money up the pyramid to me. fact. in a monetary system the world is a styro-foam ashtray we all **** on . wasting resources on producing items that fall apart and break so we can slave at work and buy crap from the dollar store with no chemical regulations shipped by china. wake up this doc is about a system that actually addresses problems instead of puking all over every living thing and making hieroglyphics out of feces. we are conditioned by the very system that our forefathers left for. slaves to a system that degrades and rejects us by our differences. we judge our appearance by airbrushed models why? so a company can sell makeup? is that not corruption? our children are being taught to live by impulses of shopping to lie to sell a product, if I just have more....(money) i'll be okay keep telling yourself that its a big monopoly game where the very rules remove our value at the beginning. by the time an individual is in high school they have been stripped of their uniqueness beat up and spit on for being different planning to take out loans for college that will enslave them to dept right out the gate get married in their twenties have kids before their able to get a good strategy on how to survive in this disgusting monetary system. we are taught to specialize in one area giving us a fragmented picture of reality. all our money is debt we are debt slavery is nothing but dept remove the money remove the dept and there is no slave.
this whole documentary is incredible. Explains similar beliefs Ive recently had into harmonized and rational ideas. Amazing. This needs to go viral. Spread the word
People please give this documentary your attention. The video is so informative and educational and thought provoking that it should be required watching for all mankind. Please take the time and enlighten yourselves. Don’t listen to what some of the others have said pertaining to this documentary –you be the judge and I’m certain you’ll be pleased.
A must watch and learn documentary for all the people, this documentary is too straight in pointing out the truth. For those who find it tough to understand, this documentary would seem disoriented. Give it a little bit of thought, it makes perfect sense.
Thank you Vlatko!
C***... Plain and simple.. Lets bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator. Liberals are a strange beast. No problem telling everyone else they must live by their laws in some world government. Didn't Einstein like the idea of world government only to flee his country when the sh-t hit the fan. Do they not get it? one government doesn't ensure it will be just or become corrupt after 10yrs? They tell me I should live in the same exact house as my neighbor without thinking I might not want to? Can't be an individual, nope. It must be me but when I didn't know why I was doing something in school, I asked or looked it up in the library. Of course if you take money out of the picture people work by passion but you still need farmers, etc.. Scares me people think like this.. Like we are a pawn in their world. We have borders to keep our traditions and values. To think this isn't the world people have created is complete ****. FYI- Everyone should watch it.. good ideas bad implementation. You should know what these people are thinking.
sometimes i think it can be healthy and unhealthy to think about these things.. if you didn't think about these things where would you be, probably better off in the current society oblivious to all of this. On the other hand if your aware of what is actually going on, it can draw you away from the facts of society. In my opinion its not healthy or unhealthy, just see it from a wider angle.
Thinking about all this may cause people to lose sleep, because most people are caught up in this present system or whatever you want to call it, but the fact they are aware of what is actually going on creates a world of **** for the individual, but this world of **** may produce something great, because of the fact they have to face the world of **** in order to be free and to understand the ****, instead of escaping though other things like there jobs or whatever.
I guess what I'm trying to say is get your **** and put it together in a creative and understanding way, which i am currently in the process of.
thank you and good night
This doco is doing it's job. Getting us to think outside of our conditioning. Yes it shows alternative scenarios that seem unrealistic. So what ? In order for the structure of the human race to change we need to change the way we think and this doco is exposing the way we are conditioned and why we are conditioned that way. Instead of finding the negatives in this to enchant your own ego's why not Think about how you are conditioned and what type of a world you would like to live in. Is that world for the betterment of all man kind or for the betterment of yourself ?
The people who don't wish for this change I speak of are those that don't wish to export their local resources to some global authority. The practice of importing and exporting "resources" (which is code for removing portions of a once living system for human use) is what got us in this mess in the first place. What do you do when a local populace doesn't want that? Kill them? Imprison them and make them watch pretensions documentaries until they change their minds? I would personally fight to prevent such a global culture and I'm not alone. Can such a future be brought about without a horrible war machine to force it?
Yes, ownership is the problem. But I see no thorough exploration of the environments that humans have created in the past that did not give rise to ownership.
Also, the idea that there is no human nature (tabula rasa) is far from proven. There is much evidence to the contrary. The framework for things like language syntax, walking/running, fear response to loud noises, etc. are all part of the hard-wired but extremely flexible human mind. Modern human behaviour is not human nature, but human nature's response to the modern industrial environment. My argument is that what is proposed by this doc is not better than what we have, but is what we have more or less. I have no confidence that this New NEW World Order would behave any differently than the OLD New World Order because it's still a WORLD ORDER; as open to abuses of power and subjugation of marginal populations as any other large scale system.
Science is a method that is very good at modelling systems that can be reduced to independent variables (e.g. physics, chemistry, etc). However, it is piss poor at dealing with systems that are interrelated and complex, like ecosystems, the human mind or anything else of day to day importance. There is seemly no regard for the complexity of nature by these Zeitgeist fools beyond CGI pandas and sea turtles outside their dome cities that they don't have the energy, technology or materials to build.
And by the way, solar panels rely on rare minerals as well as common ones, tidal power is unworkable to maintain due to the corrosive properties of salt water, geothermal dredges up massive quantities of arsenic into the groundwater, there's not enough manufacturing infrastructure for wind power to be implemented and nuclear is as finite as fossil fuels. All this is as unrealistic as any other global utopian pipe dream. Good visual editing though.
Happy Valentines to all, and as for the reality of singles, as my daughter pointed out on her facebook page this morning:
Don't forget that blow jobs are like flowers for men and that it is a perfect time to reflect on all your horrible dating choices since last Valentines day.
I especially loved all the Richard Feynman quotes! That man was an incredible human and my greatest inspiration to lead a life in which I never stop learning!
It was a long Sunday and I think I got bedsores haha but I watched this straight through and very much liked it! If only most people could know and understand these things!!
I found the way this was presented distracting and pointless. However the content was a very relevent and accurate discription of the problems facing our modern society. Humanity is suffering and it doesent need to be. Granted Im not sure what form the new system should take and I found some of their ideas concerning what should replace the monitary system a lil bit farfetched. That being said change is coming and it may be very hard on those of us alive today. You can see it already in Lybia, Seria and Egypt. The people are becoming connected in a way that was impossible a mere 15 years ago. Literaly billions of people previosly little more bondslaves to their govenments have unlimited access to any information. Who knows what the free exchange of information might produce in the next ten twenty or one hundred years. I belive right now is a very dangerous time for our species. We are running out of time now to solve problems that are 40 or 50 years from now. Our way of life has worked very good to get us to this point but if we are to continue indefinetly our govenments ALL OF THEM need to decide whether they are going work for our species or end us as a species. The shortterm mindset that we have been running on for the last hundred years or so can only end in the loss of a huge pecentage of humanity. We need to get real smart real soon
Meeting all human needs and desires with machines is supposed to lead to an outburst of human creativity? Technology, as well as art, tend more to come from challenging yet non-restrictive environments. If you remove the need to overcome challenges, you will get a world full of spoiled children, not genius thinkers.
The modern environment is challenging, but restrictive. The world proposed by this film is touted as non-restrictive (though universally required), but is unchallenging. Both environments produce dullards.
As to the idea of the new utopia being a more free way of living, what do you do with the people that don't want this change? People with big ideas about the way every single person in the world should live have been many throughout history, and they all tend to claim that there will be peace and prosperity if they succeed.
I agree with much of this film's analysis of the problems of the modern world. Monetary economies are certainly a problem, but not the root of the problem. They are a symptom of a societies grown to a scale where sharing becomes unwieldy and impractical. There are plenty of examples of cultures that had what is referred to in the film as "resource base economies", but they were all small in scale and didn't tend to build cities or export/import significant amounts of resources. Their innovations were the results of needing to work with what they had, not of boredom. Their tendency for sharing over hoarding was the result of caring about their community, not simply having more than they need. If simply having more than you need directly resulted in sharing, then the monetary economy wouldn't be a problem in the first place. Hoarding is tolerated because the haves do not interact directly with the have nots, allowing them to abstract and disregard them. Do you care deeply and personally about the people that die of cancer making the circuit boards for your computer or plants and animals that die from arsenic poisoning from the mining of the extremely finite minerals requited to make solar panels, cell phones and laptops? Would you if you knew them personally and had to watch them die? Small scale societies are the only examples we have of true sustainability and egalitarianism, but these douche hats want a global society? Sounds like trying to fight fire with gasoline or dig your way out of a hole.
If the basis for any scientific theory must be that which can observed through the senses, then isn't there a fundamental flaw in our approach? I can see that it has gotten mankind very far but I'm thinking that in order for us to get any further we must begin thinking in new ways and considering alternative approaches--not only to our methods of problem solving but our very ways of understanding them.
@Sieben Stern That is so cruel, fcking up a lifes of young people, who are 2 naive, 2 young, 2 trusting... "...it still makes me nauseous and really angry. " same.
realy realy huge peace of "like":) i gues onece it started few years ago, there is no going back:D
at the religion 2.2 part - that jesus camp woman is vile. no matter how many times i see her or hear her talk it still makes me nauseous and really angry.
started slowly but gets better, Ive enjoyed it so far but think it will take me weeks to get through all thirteen hours.
We're enjoying it more and more as the film progresses
money = slavery.
I failed to mention below how impressed I was with their model of education, where the children learn according to their own interests and go at their own pace, a system dedicated to true education and not just training another worker for the assembly line. I have found throughout my college career that if I truly want to understand a subject or concept it is entirely up to me to pursue that knowledge. I do so through the internet, by consulting fellow students or the faculty, whatever I have to do. Sometimes my instructors get frustrated with me because I refuse to simply memorize the steps or some random fact, I insist on relating what I am learning to real world situations. This gets really sticky in higher mathematics and sometimes you do have to wait until a little further down the road before you understand the “why” and not just the “how”. But, eventually you will find the “why” if you really want to know. My point is that this should be promoted by our educational system; it should be “built in” to the curriculum. Instructors should always know the real world application of what they are teaching, and they should continuously relate what they are covering to this application. More than this they should continuously try to inspire children to take charge of their own education, and allow them room to do so. After all when you get to the university no one holds your hand, it is up to you to pursue your education, to organize your life, etc. They should also stop relating the purpose of education to simple earning ability, which they do constantly. Monetary success should not be the motivation for education, curiosity and a better understanding of the world around you as well as your fellow man should be the motivation for education. Most of the scientist that have contributed the big breakthroughs of our times led simple lives; they sacrificed money and comfort in the pursuit of knowledge. Anyway, I am covering the same stuff they do in the documentary at this point so I’ll just refer you there. I think they explain it very well.
While I agree with about ninety percent of what these guys have to say it seems to me that they want to create a world of absolute certainty; one where even the langauge we use everyday is so unambiguous as to require zero interpretation. A world dictated by pure scientific logic. I myself am a chemistry major, and an x-physics major, so I understand and embrace the world of science. That said, I am not sure I want to live in such a dull predictable world. Yes, resources could be managed better, division due to silly superstitions and cultural nonsense could be reduced, etc. etc. But what about imagination, passion, art- what happens to these things in a world of absolutes, a world of no interpretation?
Think of all of the art, both literary and visual, that came about as a direct result of the diverse cultures that make up the world. Think of all of those that have been inspired by such art to go on and do great things that helped shape the present. They even make documentaries about how pop culture content like star wars or star trek have influenced modern science and helped to bring about many scientific break throughs we now enjoy every day. Literature through out history has been inspired by the social, political, and physical environment of the author. This litrerature then goes on to inspire others to reshape their environment in various ways and the circle contniues on, and on, and on.
What happens to this cycle in a world run by machines, as per scientific mechanical logic? What happens to empathy, compassion, or the "spontaneous overflow of human emotion". (Wordsworth's definition of poetry.) I am not asserting anything here, I am simply posing a question. What do you guys think?
Fairly slick presentation and quality. Sadly, that doesn't hide that it's a bunch of sophistry. Slickly packaged drivel. If it takes 20 minutes to even start to do an "Allegory of the Cave" you're not trying to be clear and educate, you're trying to confuse and beguile. If that isn't the case, then you're just plain failing badly.
Speak clearly and concisely if you want to educate. All the frippery gives me grave misgivings as to the content or the intent.
Granted, I could only stand 30 minutes of this noise before I had to shut it off.
I watched the entire thing before messaging .how could anyone disagree with the topic and discussed main objectives? it is covered in a clear and a concise manner and methods discussed are the most efficient available. yet I see disagreements and rebellion in these comments below. It must be a misunderstanding, or not fully understanding the unification of all of it and how it has affected society. the monetary system is clearly based off of corruption. every solution mentioned looks at the problem and actually addresses the problem and does so in a way that is thovee most beneficial to the advancement and development of society. I hope anyone that disagrees goes through and figures out where the misunderstanding lies and corrects it. a resource based economy is the only feasible option and makes the world and people's quality of life the most important aspect .money is slavery I always knew that. car bills , jobs, mortgages, credit card bills on and on is a game of slavery where they feed and house them self why is this not obvious to some? maybe they think if they had more "money" their life would improve. it is a false objective. the world is a Styrofoam garbage can in the current system. we live in a disposable planet with landfill graveyards and invisible prisons in your checkbook 8 out of 10 people hate their job half the world is starving the small fraction of people that have enough to get by have to hoard and isolate. the corporations governments schools and people them it are sociopaths and politics is a soap opera. the evening news is a lie. schools teach you to be a robot and not to question anything. everything presented in this film is correct, however i do disagree with some minor aspects like spirituality but agree within the context that they mentioned also it would be ridiculous to get rid of art as it is creative expression. i hope this system comes into being and replaces the current one. the scientific method applied to society is what this is about. why would anyone not want to get rid of scarcity?
i've watched somany doco's on early human and it never crossed my mind. but this year i have enrolled in uni to study anthropology so these things seem to be coming more to my attention.
That's a very interesting point. Now I'm curious when white people came about. Hating this documentary has proven to be both fun and interesting.
I also find it interesting how these fools seem to be very focused on understanding humans from a prehistoric evolutionary stand point, but don't look to any pre-industrial cultures to model their ideal society on. Their have been many cultures that do not suffer from the insanities of modern industrial society, but they choose to fixate on an entirely unprecedented and very undemocratic global industrial utopia, dubious in both desirability and feasibility.
why do they always show early homo sapiens as white or mediterrainian looking. i would have thought they would be black. can anyone please give a reason why early homo sapiens had white skin, it goes agianst my common sense knowledge, how can it be?
This doc is unbearable!
I have an idea for renewable energy: hook up a belt and turbine to every dead science fiction author that tried to warn against techno-dystopia and harness the power of them spinning in their graves.
Watched the whole doc.......It goes from one extreme to the other.
Some of the things are so good that may prove life changing..... but some of the stuff feels too naive on part of the maker.....
The best part is the "questions and collapse" do watch it if you don't have the time to watch the whole
Pleasant, almost surreal effect from good editing of a myriad clips.Only got as far as the copyright would let me. Lots of social and scientific information weaving through an Utopian underlay. Thank you Vlatko xx
There seems to be an established school of thought that if you can just create a documentary that is pretentious enough, independent of any other mechanism of change, that the world will be saved.
Admittedly, I've not watched the whole 14 hours, but I felt like I had after the first 15 minutes. I skipped past concepts I'm already familiar with. The analysis of the problems of modern society is pretty solid, and I agree with most of the sentiments against non-democratic systems and institutions, but the presentation makes me want to pull my hair out. I can only listen to inspiring background music for so long until the manipulation turns to irritation.
These techno-topians really try my patience with their half baked and borrowed platitudes. It's like listening to a 16 year old yammering away about how amazing Led Zeppelin is. Carl Sagan, George Carlin and the rest of the commonly quoted figures from this school of documentary had a lot of very amazing things to say. But none of these personalities have any connection to any direct line of causation that would help alleviate the worlds ills beyond helping 1st world college students stave off boredom.
Theoretical physics and philosophical ruminations on the nature of reality are interesting, but it won't save the world. If you disagree, maybe you should sit down and write or draw your concept of what the connection is between heady documentaries and long term benefit to this dying planet is. Then ask yourself if this is not just another religion promising deliverance if enough believers convince enough non-believers.
The contradiction is pretty amusing: A doc that spends several hours deconstructing the ill effects of a technosized, regimented and unnatural society, where labor is divorced from reward and the common human is deprived of autonomy that then prescribes an unprecedented level of technological automation, an even further divorce between labor and reward and an environment that makes autonomy obsolete. I'm sure the fish swimming in the poisoned oceans of the world would love nothing more than for you to have your very own star trek replicator.
I just stopped it at 13 minutes because the narrator's accent is hard to understand, and made worse by the music in the background competing with her voice - and winning. Since you make me feel like I'm not alone in this, I'll struggle on.
God this is slow.
"strenj coolars, strenj sheps" stopped watching at 37 seconds in, if the narrator removes the appendage from her mouth, I may return. Sorry, but if I have to decipher and mis hear words, I'm not really interested.