UNGRIP

UNGRIPBen Stewart and Dan Stewart, creators of Esoteric Agenda and Kymatica, focus the essence of this film around the journey through transitional and groundbreaking moments in a human's life.

At a major juncture in his life, rob in the pagé family began down a road less traveled to free himself from fear, government control, and reliance on public energy and food supply, and shares his journey that led him off the grid.

The purpose of this film is not to provide legal advice, nor is it to simply educate, but rather as inspirational fuel. To become more of what we already are.

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259 Comments / User Reviews

  1. Very interesting film, definitely "Red Pill" type analysis. There is constant tension between the notion and idea of the "collective", man as social animal and man as individual, beholden only to his own well being, free to cooperate or withdraw.

    Urbanization, large scale industrialization/globalization and the advent of a consumer/materialist social culture has made it very difficult to disconnect and disassociate from from the current system.

    Carl Schmitt, the great German jurist and legal scholar, summarized well the role of the sovereign and the great political questions in his essay "The concept of the political".

    Recommended reading for anyone who wants to understand the great question of who rules and why.

  2. I haven't watched the doc yet, but there is such a thing as "squatters rights", in Canada a squatter can own the land in 7 years, might have changed that to 10 years as in Ontario, in England it is 12 years.

    In the States it varies from state to state, any professional real estate investor having proper education in squatters rights can deem it to be profitable.

    There is also such a thing as a "freeman on the land" that originated, where else but in Canada. Who ever is interested should google all this stuff.---
    From what I have personally researched the only province with "Adverse Possession" laws is Alberta. Basically you must live on the land for 10 years without interuption and you can take it from the actual owner. It is a very seldom used law here, But it has happened and you have little to no recourse if it happens.

  3. This site is very informative. Your site will be bookmarked for future reference.

  4. The concept of self reliance and detachment from governed system is convincing and doable in this film, but as far as actual events and processes Rob mentioned while he fought against allegations, testimonies, if provided by other parties involved or witnessed in those allegations would be more complete in a full length documentary film.

  5. By the way.. this is a great website for documentaries, thank you for your generosity in providing free full length viewings. <3

  6. This is indeed an inspiring and honest film which I feel wholehearted related to.. and yet like Rob said with tremendous hard work and dedications. But it could also be done with much much smaller property and house. Learning self reliance from our existing system in every aspect is self revolution. It doesn't mean to duplicate his path, but it is inspiring enough to begin to question for most people.

    I only have one question, I wonder if he pays tax for public infrastructures like paved roads while he was stopped by police.... I don't know how the laws comply in Canada in that regard, but according to his explanations, that none of the lands within Canada belongs to Canada by definition of their law, so he is free to drive anywhere without drivers license while he's still using the infrastructures..? That seems somewhat conflicting from an ethical stand point.. because I believe most people would want people driving on the roads at least pass the road and written tests, which is provided by governing..?

  7. when i liberate myself of the grid nobody gonna take my top lip topiary away

  8. Thank you for this! I've been talking about wanting to go off the grid for months, and everyone i tell, tells me that I am nuts, and that the government will take my freedom, or that its impossible...this is so inspiring! I know I can do it, for the betterment of my family.

  9. So... How does he get away from not paying taxes on the land he is now? And if he is not paying taxes, or anything (save phone + internet), why are there no agents storming his house?

    Don't get me wrong, I loved this doc, this guy seems like one of the more intelligent people I've had the pleasure to listen to, but I just don't see how this works...

    1. It doesn't work. He will fail at some point

  10. This video made me remember all the times i have been pressured from institutions and authority figures. Also, it made me think about all the societal situations that occurred to reenforce being part of this citizenship of Canada. A basic one is pledging allegiance. As well, now i have a greater understanding of why the RCMP do not engage in certain areas like civil matters.

  11. Jeepers guys! get a room... U were politely asked to leave this "comments" space days ago. Yeah it's been fun, possibly educational but not inspirational. Go hijack some other webspace or even better meet up with each other in the fleshspace. Respect....

    Meanwhile...

    The Stewart bros make great grassroots inspirational stuff, reminding us we are in essence free human beings not slaves to corporation or culture. More please!

    1. Actually, that was me the boss was talking about, not them.

  12. i really love these ideas wish it was easier done then said tho

  13. Yes and it's an osprey.

    1. cool(it's a little small to tell here) they have the neatest nest, many around here. A bridge construction was stopped and altered many years ago in the Koots because of a nest on a post. Those darn hyppies!
      az

  14. I'm serious, I've seen your photography. That at least we have in common.

    1. How about using your photography skill to create an avatar. You are here enough to be recognized right off the bat...now i am following you, you got my interest going.
      az

  15. I'd rather talk about photography. Let us go to a photography doc. You do like photography?

  16. Well i'm sorry you guys even though I really enjoyed this documentary and gained some good information had some great Discussions I am going to retire commenting on ungrip for awhile....I thought I would stop talking about the government I don't want them to come knocking on my door about the comments I made about them on TDF Lmao :D

    1. I do respect your position and in a way understand it because that is exactly what they want: "Us To Fear Them" and that is exactly the point this guy makes. If you approach a personal quest, which ever it is, without fear, with focus, with research, with all your heart...you can find a way to do the impossible.
      I have watched @Lakhotason bashed this guy's idea with a lot of sense but i am sorry to say, if Lakhotason was to make a doc on his life telling us how he beat the system by going on Welfare and receive legal non taxable income, a lot of people would start bashing him too. Don't take me wrong, i have nothing against going on welfare and did myself in the early 80's when i split from the father of my first child. All i am saying is what works for one does not work for all.
      I have expressed myself very openely on TDF short of my address and phone number. I supported marijuana and hemp openely and many other issues that i feel are my rights. No one has knocked on my door yet, they may, but i know that they know that i am just a small player in a big big game.
      It is millions and millions of little pawns riding horses atop their towers who work together with crazy ideas who will succeed in putting the queens and kings check mate.
      az

    2. Actually they have, in disguise, knocked on my door and i am about to go meet them face to face, eye in eye, hand in hand. Peace is a way of life and it doesn't have to go through war to obtain it.
      The mid of pyramid, a little charade for @Py and Ra
      az

    3. Welfare? I should say a lot of things Az, but I won't. Never have I taken or sought welfare, or anything remotely akin. What I have is what I have earned. Do me a favor and please don't assume otherwise.

    4. "As far as Social Security, I am determined to get back what I paid in, and if that means I have to take a gov't check, then so be it."

      These are your own words, i might have misunderstood you,, if so i appologise for upsetting you, as you can read that was not my intention....and i do not condemn Social Assistance or Worker's compensation. They are there for a purpose for many people.
      I hope your trip was pleasant!
      az

    5. I'm years away from Social Security. Social Security? How old do think I am. But hell yes when that time comes I demand back what I paid in.

    6. I have no clue how old you are. How old are you?
      Re-read your posts when you talk about yourself and your income and you will see why they are misleading and invite assumptions.
      az

    7. I've never talked about my income.

    8. i thought you wanted to talk about photography?
      "The very best way to not pay income tax is not to have taxable income. How hard is that to understand.
      This is what I do and I have no problems because it is legal. Why go through all those contortions when in the end it a'int gonna work anyway?" Who's income were you talking about here?
      Not mine.
      az

    9. did you take this shot (avatar) on your last excursion? Eagle? az

    10. If we all work at what works for each of us, it will work for all of us.
      az

    11. Yeah I know I agree with you....you are right Az and just like you mentioned some of us are those little pawns...But just being realistic they are not going to change Az...just like you said it starts within yourself and where I have to start is within me...I can do my best and be a light... like this Doc did reach out to a Few people sadly its not going to convince the Majority... But anyway I will leave on a positive note.......EveryBody Needs To Give Az aThumbs Up for REQuesting UNGRIP This is Great Doc Here on TDF Lol :D

    12. Knowledge, Love iz Power and Self Love is like compost.
      Immerse yourself in Your Self
      Self Importance doesn't hurt any 1
      az

    13. Nice Az.. Jim Hightower's father had a saying: "everyone does better when everyone does better"

      I like to think of it as an Anarchist statement of independence. We are social animals and thus dependent on our local communities and little else.

      In terms of the larger legal structure: The law is the "de facto" rationale to usurp existing natural social structure. The state is the strong arm of corporate structure which gives corporate, fictitious persons, the power to enslave with debt real, natural people. I've always thought of this when considering Native Americans or African Americans. The legal status of said persons is used against them to take, to seize control of, what was once the occupied property of Native peoples. The introduction of law, then made the Natives own occupation "illegal". Under the same rationale, African Americans were in legal limbo due to being forcibly taken, removed, from their native lands. This put them is a serious legal nonsense, all rationalized with distinctions of "what is a human being?" and then defining slaves as 3/5ths a human. And new fictitious definitions were made to justify this theft and criminal enterprise.

      It is all about power and control. We are all slaves in that our debt makes us beholden to the system of law that is our government, wherever that government is located.

    14. that last paragraph says a lot!
      az

    15. well, with all that history behind me it is a large part of why I consider myself an anarchist. I am not willing to trust "leaders" to do the right thing for the people. When I was a child, I used to believe in Santa Claus but then I went to grade school. Later, there was a time that I believed in god but when I went to High School and my eyes were opened. Later, when I first started college I used to believe in American Dream and Democracy, but then the contradictions far outweighed the uneven story we were told about America...

      and now it is time to stand up. It took a while but I finally caught on...

    16. @Knowledgeizpower... Wise! Especially if as Saddam, someone hide a few hydrogen bombs in their cellar.

      :-))

      Pierre.

  17. Paying tax isn't that bad, think what you get for it. Education, defence, healthcare- we have the NHS, social care and public services, overseas aid to name but a few. Some of it's not spent how I'd like, I'd prefer we were not engaged in an illegal war and there are plenty of politicians that get paid more than they're worth. You have to take the good stuff and hope the bad stuff will improve. Luckily we have the right to protest, a freedom that some countries still cannot enjoy. Peaceful (and sometimes riotous) protest is a good way to start, its worked before and it can work again. I don't mind contributing to that stuff, same as I don't mind giving blood. It stings but someone benefits from it.

  18. The very best way to not pay income tax is not to have taxable income. How hard is that to understand.

    This is what I do and I have no problems because it is legal. Why go through all those contortions when in the end it a'int gonna work anyway?

    Big ol' fat gibbous moon tonight.

    1. here is a list of non taxable income in Canada:
      Canada Child Tax Benefit (CCTB) payments
      Child assistance payments and the supplement for handicapped children paid by the province of Quebec
      Child Support if agreement or court order is after April 30, 1997.
      Gifts: in most cases
      Goods and Services Tax/Harmonized Sales Tax (GST/HST) payments
      Inheritances: in most cases
      Life insurance policy death benefit payments: most amounts received from a life insurance policy following someone’s death
      Lottery winnings
      Social Assistance Payments (SA), but you must still include it on your tax return to ensure that any benefits you may be entitled to are calculated properly
      Workers Compensation Benefits, but you must still include it on your tax return to ensure that any benefits you may be entitled to are calculated properly

      My guess Social Assistance or Worker's Compensation, a choice if one's rent is low or inexistant and it allows you to go hiking at free will. Some prefer to hide and get paid "under the table"....same same but different!
      az

    2. You never mentioned savings.

    3. I have on other docs, digging holes is best...because if they know you have it, they want it and that include every thiefs in your neighbourhood.
      az

  19. Azilda Quite seriously you need to think. This woman is a fruit loop. Don't have to pay income tax? Tell it to those cooling their heels in Federal Prison who tried pulling that. Talk to them first and then read Ms. Croft.

    That is as far as I read her PDF. That is as far as I needed to read her PDF.

    Two more hours til the shuttle leaves.

    1. I was expecting this exact response from you...you are right on. Do you read my support on this? Or is it too early for you to read? It is 6am here and i have no trouble reading yours.
      Have a nice trip in the wild.
      az

  20. Lol this is going to be interesting :D

  21. No trouble I think. I'm being pretty specific to the doc I believe*. Quit listening to tin-foil hat conspiracy theories, which is what this doc and the "Amero" are. I've been hearing about the Amero for years and will unfortunately hear about for years to come, if you get my point.

    1. I'm sorry Vlatko or whomever is the moderator. The * I used was to please tell me if I'm wrong.

    2. @Lakhotason:

      My own personal take is no, not wrong, control is control, this doc represents control by any means possible by the govment, and the govment relinquishing control back to the people by the word of law which is very convoluted, and basically the govment control over a person is by the de-facto strawman on a persons birth certificate where your name is in capital letters which means you are a corporation, and by the number on your birth certificate which means you are an employee of the federal govment. Don't know about USA but in Canada our birth certificate number is one way what the corp of Canada uses to generate money on the stock exchange listed in New York, we are listed as nothing but chattel in Admiralty law under the securities and exchange commission act of Canada.

      Have looked into a lot of this freeman stuff years back, look at my link Re: Robert Menard and his vids to give you a better picture.

    3. Achems, I mean really.

    4. What happened with your hike...got too interested in Ungrip?
      az

    5. Read again my timetable. I have done what I've said I'll do today. and I'm only waiting for the morning.

    6. Have you ever heard of Mary Elizabeth Croft? Google: how i clobbered every beaurocratic cash-confiscatory agency known to man...a PDF file.
      A friend of mine who now lives full time in Asia introduced me to this about 4 yrs ago...i had forgotten her name so i wrote him a little note tonight and here it is. I didn't pay much attention to it years ago although my friend had explained a few of her claims...anyway...Ungrip reminded me of that.
      az

    7. AZ,

      Yes have heard of Mary Croft, and since this doc is about relinquishing all forms of licensing, there are ways of not paying any income tax ever, but! and a big but! you just cannot decide one day to not pay taxes, they will string you up, you have to know what you are doing.
      So I do not recommend not paying taxes, very dangerous.

    8. I see what you're saying. But you are right, there are ways and one of them is to not show you are working. Many succeed at that. But to not file...is different, tax evasion is as old as rich people.
      az

  22. Well, I'm off to REI to pick the menu I'll be dining on during my trip up into the high country. Probably 5 or 6 days. I think I'll stroll on down using the public River Path. Maybe on the way back I could stop in at the public library and down load a book to my Kindle for free. Nice to have something to read when you're kicked-back in the wilderness on public land.

    Tomorrow I'll catch a public shuttle at the public mass transit station. That ride will cost me $1.50. Forty miles down the public road I'll arrive at the public Ranger Station. Then I'll pick a public trail - to begin my very, very private trip.

    And I can do all this because I'm free to do so.

    1. Game set and match, well played sir.

    2. And this is truly what I am doing. I'm going out the door right now.

    3. spanking, have a fantastic trip and its been great chatting. hope the sun shines for you :)

  23. Just noticed a direct correlation between the shirtyness of my comments and the number of coffees i've had today.

  24. Oh its no big secret what's going to happen. I just want to see the guy's face when it does.

    Judge Judy! I can't abide Her Honor, but I sure would like to watch Mr. Page pull his dictionary ju-ju on that woman.

    1. Judge Judy is one of my hero's. I always wonder what sort of a mother she was, imagine trying to pull the wool over her eyes - no chance.
      Have to add that I'm chuckling like a nutter now, love the picture that paints in my mind :)))

  25. There is no reason to look for me. That's my point.

  26. Well, think about the car thing for a moment. Do you know of anywhere that if you are stopped and cited for no driver's license, they are going to let you get back in the car and drive away? I mean you still have no driver's license.

    No, they're going to impound your car and you will pay heap big dollar to get it back, provided (in my state) you can show a current driver's license, proof of insurance, etc.

    Now this money you pay also includes the amount of your fine(my state). I don't think the judge really cares about some fantasy Mr Page is spinning. He's already got your money. Sure they "let him go". I don't think Mr. Page is being entirely truthful with us.

    1. Same here in England, you'd be walking to court and thanking the judge for the exercise, the fine and the points on your licence. Oh, but he doesn't have one so no insurance either which means more trouble and points. Enough points and you get a ban and no hope of getting your car back anyway. Maybe he has an imaginary car to go with his imaginary freedom.

    2. And it goes the same for the tax collector. He's got your land any time he wants it if you haven't paid your taxes.

      If I were the taxman and Mr Page confronted me with that BS, I'd walk off too. What's the point of confrontation? You don't pay your taxes and I'll just take your land. That simple.

    3. It could be that his wife is paying the bills when he's not looking. Your right about the tax man, a law unto themselves. They'll let him be 'til they decide otherwise. Lets hope he's got one of those tiny little caravans and a dog to pull it 'cos he's going to end up homeless

    4. I'd like to see "The Rest of the Story" as Paul Harvey used to say. Now that would make this doc very interesting.

    5. I'm willing to bet there are people out there prepared to do some digging, perhaps the contents of his secret filing cabinet will end up on wikileaks. We need UNGRIP Truthers. I'll give him 9/11 for effort though.

    6. UNGRIP Truthers? How about GETAGRIP reality?

  27. I know exactly what you mean. If you're going to do something different the worst thing to do is try to hide it. This is why this doc is just crazy. They tell you to do the very things you need to avoid doing.

    1. I'm still confused as to why he gave the cop his name and then turned up for his day in court, why not step off completely? Surely their judgement shouldn't have mattered or did he in some way need to be told that he was free and off the grid? If so then he hasn't let go in the way he wanted to, he still recognises some authority. They still have him in their sights and he still answered the call.

  28. In plain sight is the best place to hide. If I were a tree I'd be in a forest.

    1. Funny but brilliant. Me and a friend had a way of hiding that we called 'think blade of grass'. Exactly as it sounds! Pretty convinced it worked but there is a chance that two kids in goat skin waist coats and home made shoes were just to weird to bother with.

  29. Canada an anarchy??? By jolly! If I wouldn't have seen the westminster document, I wouln't have believe.
    Anyhow, the ones who hold guns are the ones who rule.

    That guy is lucky that his 2 legal cases (Driver licence & propery taxes) were abandonned cause I read somewhere that "Harper" is somewhat devoted to the queen.
    He brought back the queen photo all over Canada.
    The concepts emited in the docu is lacking the equilibrium of a conterweight concept : Homosapien is a gregarious beast.
    Factually, the guy obviously needs to ride his car on roads builded by the society surrounding him and his famly, so...?
    The bare fact that he use the road with his car means that he accept the rules that come with this.

    So, a little hoaxes in a once in a while launched by "Governor General", what's the fuss?

    Pierre.

  30. Change your mind and your asss will follow.
    Just read that on a sign while marching for Occupy Nelson.
    Also Lettuce Turnip the Beet.
    az

  31. Hmm I think I can understand that... what I gathered from the Doc is the definition of Self and Personal Freedom...If I want to live for My Self why am I allowing the government to replace what my definition of self and freedom truly is then that would mean that I am living for Them and not My self right..They are Making Their Rules and I am Living for them by giving them My Personal Self and Freedom imo....But okay I respect your comment Thanks Lak Dude :D

    Edit: Lol, okay Lakhotason since you asked me to keep that in mind So Sweetly I will Peace :)

    1. But keep in mind it is in you best interest to have a government.

    2. It's in their best interest to have you.
      az

    3. And it is in my best interest to let them believe they do have me.

    4. Yeah! like a double agent, hiding in plain sight. :)

    5. watch out, They may be looking for you here.
      az

  32. Okay Lol...moving on to what is Freedom...I'm listening Lak please go on... And where did everyone else Go omg why is just you and I talking :D

    1. We are discussing the doc - not talking. I gave you my definition of freedom. In everything I do it should always be in my best self interest. Anything these people espouse in this doc would never be in my best self interest and if not, then it isn't freedom.

      It would never be in my best self interest to own land yet refuse to pay the property tax. It's self-defeating - it gives the government the excuse to seize your land. Then you have no land and will have paid the taxes from the sale of the land. How is that in you best self interest?

  33. Ok Knowledge, let's change the focus. Let's ask what freedom is? I mean you do have to come to some sort of personal definition of freedom before you can discuss anything else.

    My personal definition is that I be able to choose what is in my best self interest. For me that definition is freedom.

    1. I agree, and having my government with all it's faults protect me from other scarier governments, is why i am a citizen and the reason why my grand parents came here in the first place.

  34. Aww every one is back now sorry I am late...but okay Lak dude...I just read your response back to me....If I sale you a piece of land why do you need my name... all you would need is a deed to it right that has your name on it....Isn't that what the government does also...they sale you a piece of land you have the deed to live there but They Keep Charging You After You Paid For It In Full? How? You volunteer to pay Taxes Each Year on the land you Paid For....Who Is Defrauding Who? If you bought land from me it would be a one time purchase I would not come back and tell you, you have to pay extra money after the purchase Lol...

    Edit: Uhh I Was Staying On Subject IMO....This is a part of what the Doc Is Talking About...

    1. How can a person who doesn't exist have a name on a deed? And if he does have a deed with his name on it then it becomes a moot question for he and I both.

    2. Wait now How Do You know He Does not Exist? He gave YOU a Deed With YOUR Name on it... That was a transaction between YOU and I...If You did not believe that I existed why would you come to a non existent person and purchase property....You believed that this property is real you saw it you purchased it you See The Deed To it That Has Your Name On It....Isn't that the same thing the government does ExCept they come Back and Charge You Extra....

      How Do You know the Government Exists? Its the same thing You just asked me If you think about It right....

    3. @knowledgeizpower, It's OK.

  35. Skype, Chat Room, IRC, Yahoo Messenger, Windows Live Messenger, Email, Facebook, Twitter... so many options.

    I really don't have a clue why would you guys want to chat on a documentary site.

    There is some psychology here. If you would take this conversation just between you it would not be the same. It has to be seen by as much people as possible, openly on a forum.

    Imagine this situation. I visitor lands on the site for the first time and that happens to be on this page. Quickly glances the content and realizes that he is on a documentary site. He skims the synopsis, plays the video, but realizes that there are comments below. Cool... starts to read them... football, tongue, my son, poems... and he thinks... what these have to do with the documentary. The answer: Nothing.

    As @Epicurus said: "it is clear you guys would rather talk publicly".

    I would rather want to see 10 well thought out, spot on, engaging, comments on every doc, instead of 150 from which 90% are non-related.

    So, I don't know how many times so far, I'm kindly asking you to stop your personal conversation. It is very simple. Take it elsewhere.

  36. Yes, you can live with no papers but you'll be living in fear. What kind of freedom is that, to live in fear?

    1. unfortunately most everyone live in fear of some sort, wouldn't yo say?
      az

    2. Even if that is true, why would you want to do something that adds even more fear?

      If one fears the government, then why pursue a course that only brings you to the attention of the government?

    3. keep your friends close and your enemies closer

    4. Very true. However it would be better to have no enemies.

    5. One in relation to that has been my favorite for years. Voltaire's famous: "I have only ever made one prayer: ' Lord, make all my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it."

    6. Lovely, I'm going to keep that one in my pocket for future use, more fitting than mine I think.

    7. My enemies would be me disguised in an other body.

      (sincerely i have no enemies although i may be the enemy of someone and i don't know it)
      az

    8. "man owning land is like a flee owning a dog" (as_above), well supported down below or up above.
      We don't add fears, we replace them with new ones. If you are a fearfull person it doesn't matter what life you live, fear will find you.
      az

    9. Oh but you do add fears even when it is not in your best self interest to do so. It is in my best self interest to fear rattlesnakes when hiking in the desert. It is not in my best self interest to develop a fear of the government.

  37. But isn't not having a birth certificate also a loss of some freedoms? You can't do much traveling. And if you claim you are a non-entity whats to prevent the gov't from treating you so? Do you wish to have no protection of you're rights? If you claim to be a non-citizen and the gov't then deports you, there's no country which will take you. I could go on and on but you can see the problems if you think about it.

    1. Yes thats an issue that I thought about last night...When you have an involvement with the government...Okay when the government issues you a birth certificate it has a government seal on it right...So if you live on your own freely...Can you just hand out a birth certificate that You Made? How would that work that is a good question... There is so much to think about I agree..well I am going to look up some info now I hope to talk about this some more later Peace.

    2. Well if you have to go around with a birth certificate which you made, why not just go around with a legitimate birth certificate?

      It is a crime you know to commit fraud. You sell me a piece of your land held under a non-name, you have defrauded me. You will have my money but I have no claim to the land.

  38. Well I don't think its the point of not having a birth certificate it is Who Issued it...We are talking about being governed right...Who says that you can't have your children at home on your own land away from a governed society You are the Master to Yourself right...You can make up a certificate of birth for your own child so they know when they were born right...

  39. Mostly boring, but nice. If I came to beat him up, who he gonna call? Ghost-busters? Laws are made for the people and we have straight to change that laws if we knew what we want. If u run over someone: oh it wasn't me, it was third party, he fled recently into Slovenia. Gap after gab in his philosophy.

  40. This individual has an interesting perspective, but I agree with some of the other posts which stated that such an approach is not feasible for the masses. This individual is obviously capitalizing upon Locke's idea of consent in order to return to a state of nature. If one chooses to return to the state of nature then they must forfeit all benefits that derive from being part of the governed. Though this individual is more than willing to make this sacrifice, and I empathize with his disillusionment with the current political system, I don't see this approach as an answer to our current problems.

    1. I was just reading a little Locke about an hour ago, for the first time in a very long time!
      A little Jungian synchronicity, perhaps?
      Anyway, nice comment.

    2. The individual in this doc is definitely pulling from Locke, which seems like a good place to start given that the Western system is largely informed by his ideas.

      I have mixed feelings about Locke, as I'm sure many contemporary scholars are attracted to some of his ideas, yet see it as problematic to accept the theological convictions which were used as the foundation for many of his conclusions (e.g. we own what we create).

      Synchronicity... :)

    3. Right. Locke's influence is everywhere, from economics and government, to psychology, and yet we rarely hear his name anymore...In a way, it may be the ultimate compliment: People breathe all day long, but seldom talk about the air.

  41. Damn Achems - That would be really old.

    Sorry Az they'd take away my SmartAss card if I let that one pass.

    1. 1958...a great year...for me
      az

    2. Inside who?

    3. If you have time tomorrow occupy with support.
      We are the 99% majority, if only we trust our power, we can send a loud message.
      Without violence!
      az

    4. But look for the Powers at some point to insert paid, unruly demonstrators, in order to discredit the Movement, and give themselves justification to crack down hard on it, or even end it, if they can. They've used this tactic before, and they will use it again.

    5. That's a good point although not likely in this small town. But i will be vigilant.
      az

    6. Yeah, I know... I meant viewing the Movement as a whole, or seeing how it plays out in larger venues... I think they'll try and co-opt it first, and then when that doesn't work...

    7. So Pysmythe what do you think? I had some questions yesterday....I find this way of living to be very interesting...Something you had mentioned about could you do this...Well I agree I would have to pay cash for things not living off credit, not having a mortgage, car note etc that is not difficult to some if you know how to manage...To be honest with you I had to ask myself some questions...as far as the legal issues that you pointed out that is interesting...

      What about this "straw man" thing how if you don't apply for your forms like birth certificates etc can you prove your citizenship of this country....They can think you are an illegal alien or something and try to deport you...That one is kind of a tough question i am thinking about how that works..Well I will read up on this (John Locke) honestly we don't live according to the natural rights but we should imo.

    8. @IZ:

      This doc does not really tell a person how to go about being a free person on the land, for more info google..."think free . ca", and google "Robert Arthur Menard, the security of the person part 1 of 10.

      Once you get on Menards website's there are vids etc: Its Canadian but most apply to USA.

    9. Hey Achems Razor Man! I like saying that lol...Thanks I will take time and look this information up... because okay some of you guys are in another country Canada...

    10. @Achems Razor Man... Okay so I did take the time to look at those videos you suggested to me.. Thanks it was some very interesting points that He made in the two hour video I watched on thinkfree.ca...

      Now the video on youtube, He pointed out something that I have been reading up on for sometime now in which raised my eyebrows a bit about the (NAU_ North American Union) that stood out in that particular video.... I don't know if you are familiar in knowing or of hearing about this merging Canada, United States, and Mexico as whole government or the money that is already printed called the Ameros I read about that also but okay anyway moving on I don't wanna get fussed at on topic Lol...Just wanted to say Thanks For The Info Peace :D

    11. @IZ:

      Your welcome. thinkfree.ca has direct correlation to this doc UNGRIP and what is going on in the world right now as to how we are all controlled by the elite, the one percent, and how some people are trying to break free as this doc UNGRIP suggests, and lo and behold! "thinkfree" inadvertently addresses the OWS scenarios that are going on right now as we speak.

    12. Quit talking crazy knowledgeizpower.

    13. Lol what did I do Lmao
      I read up on alot of things its interesting..Stop messing with me Lakhotason you are gonna get us into trouble :D

    14. One person's fight with the system will work only for that person, it cannot be replicated unless an other person chose to make that same fight with the same undivided will. One's action becomes an inspiration for an other to do their own fight. But if a LARGE group decides to be inspired by one person's fight and use it as a flag, then that group has the potential to take the result a notch further than just one individual. Take ex. OWS, it started small and caught the attention of a few people on the internet, if it had been left to the news to propagate it, it would have died. Today we will see the result of unification in one goal.
      Many illegal citizens have been living in the US and in all countries with no papers, some for decades. They manage because they do it for their own survival.
      To live with credit is to accept to live above the time you put into creating it. If most people were to make a full on disclosure of what they HAVE as theirs, thousands of homes would realize they owe time to claim to have what they have.

      more on this to come
      az

    15. Omg Az Yes! Thats right it really does start with Ones Self... Okay More To Come Thank You.....

    16. Az I would like to know what you think too concerning this...I like talking about this Doc its interesting....ya'll better not leave me talking by myself either lol :D I told epicurus ya'll stay on them religion docs for about 2 or 3 weeks lmao...And then when a doc gets posted I like and I want to keep the convo going folks get quiet lol hellooo.

    17. Whatsamatter no one talking to ya?

    18. No nobody Lak dude :(
      well watcha think have you had time to digest all my questions yet? I'm ready to hear what folks have to say about this identity documentation straw man stuff? Talk to me lol :D

    19. Why would you not want to have a birth certificate? That's what your first question should be.

    20. You are right, i saw that when i first began here, religion and anti-religion speaks loud on TDF and few seem to complain about that other than the occasional new participant, it has been at the heart of many many strong word fights, many repeated arguments too.
      I bet you anything if a few religious people including our most famous was to post some miracle claim under UNgrip, you'd have the atheists at the front line....and then the whole thing would turn into Ungrip your religion.
      I myself don't support religion, may be because i know i am GOD and so are you and so are them all. We the people!
      az

    21. Yeah Epicurus laughed when I told him that lol :D Its the truth I trip off of it I promise thats why I can't debate on religion it keeeps going to long for me Lmao Geez :P

    22. ...and then the whole thing would turn into Ungrip your religion.

      lolololololol...ahhh...LOLOLOLOL

      Pardon me, but, Jesus, that is HILARIOUS!! That is the funniest, subtlest SMACK DOWN I've read in quite a while!

      edit- In the meantime, @iz, it does seem Lak is answering your questions pretty much the way I would.

    23. There was not a cop in sight....and it remained very peaceful.
      az

    24. Good...But did you read about what happened in Rome today?
      Very curious...

    25. very curious...i take that not only do the residents of Rome fight for the gov. corruption, the wall street corruption but they also are at the heart of religious corruption by the papacy. Imagine how they must be fed up.
      Of course there is going to be fights, that's what a revolution is shown to be, at least that's how we are taught to revolutionize with all the wars the gov. resorts to, in order to make changes.
      I think if the exemple of our leaders was to sit quietly and discuss and discuss and discuss all matters until an agreement is made by all parties perhaps WE (the people) would do the same.
      az

    26. @Azilda...
      Oh my Gosh, another one! "Azilda wrote, in response to Azilda"!
      I guess that it won't be long, I will also be talking to myself?
      I already began to hear voices telling me that there's ought to be a plot somewhere on planet earth. If not, on planet Kinglon?
      Spock! Help me!

      Pierre.

    27. i have never addressed you...so this is a good opportunity, between Frenchies. I could have edited, i chose the other way, it was in addition to a subject @Py brought on.
      You are right i do write a lot, but look forward to my soon departure, i will mostly have to be absent!
      az

  42. I agree with Achems...not for me. I don't even like to use a phone.
    Plus frankly Epicurus, what would we talk about you and i? YOu say: "we wouldnt have had those long drawn out arguments". I don't think skype would stop that, it is people's attitude.
    I haven't seen you agree with much that comes out of my comments, so arguing on some chat site is not for me.

    I know this is a bit of a problem for you guys, but whenever you get people to participate on this forum as much as the top commenters do, you are bound to have a bit of personal which frankly i guess some people on the outside may even enjoy and some won't. We got the message, we are trying not to be too personal but that is inevitable.

    ALSO Just got a reply email from Ben Stewart
    copy:
    Thank you. I will check out the forum right now. I appreciate you
    suggesting the film Ungrip.

    Ben: Stewart

    az

    1. i think we agree on lots, but i just dont feel the need to let you guys know when i agree with you since this is supposed to be about talking about the documentary not about a large group think session.

      skype would have made the conversations instantaneous rather than day after day of the same convo. it would be one single convo and probably a lot easier to be personable on than here.

      but it is clear you guys are against the idea. im sure other users would enjoy it though. anywas, the idea is out there and my skype name is also....soooo. and these comments probably ought to be deleted.

    2. I plead guilty. Isn't that enough?

  43. Starting to watch the doc, believe it or not already know all this stuff from "Robert Arthur Menard" freeman on the land...google him... right here in BC, Canada, learned all this years ago, then this stuff went across the border to USA. So now the Yanks are picking up on all this stuff also. That is funny.

    1. You're in BC? I'm down here in Oregon. We're kinda like your weak sister.

    2. Lmao you don't have to do anything to get stopped by the police...what if you were driving along into one of those sobriety police stops or something by the Highway Patrol and they asked you for documentation...In the Doc the man was stopped by a police officer randomly and they asked him for documentation He told them he doesn't carry it and what happened to him he landed in jail and in court right...They ended up dismissing....But look at the crap he had to go thru though....I am not quite sure about that...

      Okay so what if you raise your children up like this and you don't get their birth certificates, SS cards, and they grow up with no documentation how could you prove they are citizens? This is Something to think on I guess..

    3. Who cares about birth certificates when you can care about other things?

      The child will be there whether or not the birth certificate is.

      God I love being Pious.

    4. I don't have a car anymore.

  44. OK. Last comment I'll make about this doc. These people are conspiracy theorists no less than 9/11, lunar landing, vaccines, UFO, or anything else you care to name. Sure, right, this has been a centuries old conspiracy by the "man" to keep you ignorant of these "super secret" words which all you need do is whisper them to a judge and all problems disappear. Works on everybody. Tax collectors, police officers, judges, mothers-in law.

    I mean really, some kind of conspiracy since King John and that's all you need know to go your merry way. Please. I tell you what, if anyone thinks any of this absurdity true, then go test it. Cancel your auto insurance right now, get in your car, and drive around the 'hood at 80mph with your lights off' then tell that story when they 've got you face down. Then tell that story to the judge.

    If these people are floating this kind of blatant stupidity then one needs to be very, very skeptical of everything repeat everything else they are floating.

    1. Dang Lakhotason when I read your comment I couldn't help but bust out and chuckle dude....Look I get what you saying I really do....I mean lets just face it I am not going to drive around without a license getting stopped by the cops and try to pull the same crap this guy did its not going to happen Period and to be honest I am not the right shade you know where I'm coming from and you are from that same wonderful state lol... If I went to court and did what this guy did would I get the same result I really don't think so just to be honest.....

      As far as the concept of living freely, I really like that idea having your own thats great...but most people would be afraid to do what that guy did its like you are asking for trouble from the government because they have power over the people...the majority of the people want to be governed they are sheep you have to lead them and tell them what to do it sad but true...

    2. Oh yeah, pull this sh* in like Clarksville.

    3. I take that "right shade" comment back. I know perfectly well what you are speaking of.

    4. You are correct that many would be afraid

      Go Big Orange! Vols!

    5. Hey i"m back logged on got a little busy lol....Lol up there in clarksville don't go down Dover Rd late at night hugh? But yeah I hear you there Lakhotason...It was something that Pysmythe mentioned about the legal aspect of the whole thing that you should really take into consideration...

      Okay so if you have your birth certificate social security card all this documentation your identity right...If you get stopped by the police or you get caught up in some kind of thing with the government how would you prove that you are a citizen of this country? You don't have documentation could they try to say you are an illegal alien or something? You could be born in this country do you know what i'm saying....So its somethings with that I think about too... but as far as owning your own land i don't see the problem..

    6. Well, I wouldn't do anything to get stopped by the cops.

  45. small acts of rebellion ! ?

    1. Maybe lots and lots and lots of small acts of rebellion!

    2. I filled out my census form upside down and in pencil AND I let my kids fill out their own bits and write messages to the future, Does that count? I think I stuck it to the man !

    3. *bobbing head back n forth with attitude* "Oh, no, you didn't!"

  46. Well, this was a trip, a good one, just knowing this guy exists and what he has exposed are noteworthy. The music at the end is gratifyingly dark, as is the ending.

    1. The doc starts with a breath and ends with a visual heartbeat, i also thought the ending was thought provoking...even though so subtle.
      az

  47. What a bunch of cr*p. Again a documentary by someone who thought he understands the world entirely and has the ultimate solution.

    I stopped watching this documentary right at the moment he used the animal kingdom as an example of freedom and independence. Fact is there are many species that are also subjugated to group social structures. Examples are wolves, gorillas, elephants, lions, bees, ants, wasps, spiders, bats, penguins, killer wales, etc.

    While some of these could physically live for some time on themselves their is a significant advantage for integrating with other members of its species which produces favorable survival odds. There is nothing flat out wrong in depending on other people. It is not black or white. For everybody the degree and type of dependence that is most appropriate varies tremendously.

    This guy says he is not dependent on others but what about the solar system he uses, furniture he has, clothes he wears, etc. Who produced that?

    1. You sure do know how to spoil a wet dream lol...Boooo Get Off The Stage Go Find Another Doc To Watch Mike I personally think this a Great DOC imo Now :P

    2. It sure has the potential to create thoughts. First reaction in most people is to dissect the pile and prove it wrong, dropping all the good in pieces that are no longer recognizable to them (sometimes).
      az

    3. Yeah it does create thoughts, but this is my thing Az the Doc is not promoting anything negatively at all...There is nothing wrong with being conscious to a more natural form of living...Its just the point that you made they No Longer Recognize it..

    4. Right! Your "kudos" post crystallized for me what I should take away from this documentary. There was so much legal talk in it, I got sidetracked, for the most part, into academics about a single case, rather than seeing the broader potential of it right in front of me.
      Couldn't see the forest for the trees, in other words.
      My opinion of it now, from this altered view, is much higher.
      Your a wise woman, Az, and I much appreciate it.

    5. Some will like it and some won't. I am sure if you look at your life you can understand that. I don't think this guy claims to not need people, quite the opposite.
      Animal social structure works, human's not so much as of now. The change will have to come from somewhere. The change will come from people changing things.
      What have you done? Or are just happy with the world inequalities and oppression from gov?
      If so....be it...enjoy it...march to the drum, punch your submission card every morning, watch and read the news, and believe that nothing can be done BUT know that there are millions of ways in action right this moment, people who say Enough!
      az

  48. For Rob Page to Ungrip meant to gain his wife back, to get a new land, to return to the source of that land, to slow the pace, to deny the system, to teach others, to get off the wheel that make us go faster than we need as peaceful human beings, to participate in this movie, and to continue knowing free dome is the goal.
    For Me to Ungrip meant, to get my self love back, to let go of most everything i owned, to trust life, to accept people knowing that every single action and thing i see, hear, touch is part of me as it is part of everyone, to give more than i take, to love more than i dislike, to be available because time counts, to inspire with my art, my food, my smiles, my words, to be here trying to balance me while balancing you that balance the us, to write poetry and let my energy sing between the words, to accept the life of my daughters and to know that their choice is a way of growth.
    TO ungrip certain things is to grip at every ounces of life. My way is only my way, it is one way among millions.
    I will be leaving soon for a new direction and probably will not be here very often, i will be working at ungripping some more while gripping here and there my shoes and my toes on new grounds.
    But i am still here, one day at a time....so where are you Ben?
    az

    1. Wow...First off, that's a great post that says it ALL. Double Kudos!
      Secondly...I'm genuinely very happy about the new direction in life for you, and I hope it is all the success you deserve and want it to be, whatever it happens to be.
      I'm also very sad for myself, and everyone else here at TDF. It will NOT be the same without you on a regular basis, but your life is your own to live, obviously, and I wouldn't want to be selfish...
      However, I will say that when that time comes, I will miss you a VERY. GREAT. DEAL. You have become a long distance friend of mine as well, and as I said a couple of months ago, I hold those who know you personally to be very blessed, indeed.
      It has been so much fun joking with you, and you have also taught me much more than you realize (not always pain-free!), for which I probably should have made you more aware.
      Another thing has always been quite clear to me from the start: You are a very special person, Azilda, far more original and insightful than most, and wherever you end up in your life, I know that you will never let that realization, and the profit you gain from it, slip through your fingers for a moment.

      (hope none of this has embarrassed you)

      Edit- Like Achems said, I hope you comment as often as you can, without it interfering with other things you have going on.

    2. @Py..no sadness, i will order @Valtko to delete all comments expressing any sadness, he has to listen to me at least once before i leave. LOL
      Whatever you learned from me make sure your wife reaps all the benefit, she is most deserving i have no doubt. Who would want to shack with a moose other than a moosy.
      I must tell you a secret....where i am going, i totally plan to understand the mid of pyramid...no i am not going to Egypt, it 's just a little charade.
      It's been fun but it is far from over...especially at the quantity of comments i normally post here...no one can catch up...made it look like i had no life.lololol
      I love you guys...
      @Oz time to get out of the coffin and come and say hi.
      az

    3. I can focus on the happiness for you now, if I understand you correctly.
      You're getting to travel again?!
      I know how close to your heart that is, and I'm green with envy.
      I've come to love you, too, in the best possible, most honorable way.
      Be safe, wherever all you go!

    4. Azilda, your leaving again? Am shattered! You have become a friend, don't forget I live fairly close to you, considering the other commentors. You are certainly a independent gal, am convinced I met you 20 years ago.

      But please do not be a stranger, comment as often as you can. Wish you the best.

    5. @Achems, i don't seem to remember those green eyes, but the blue skin is sort of familiar, was it a dark night under the moon? lol
      I will not be a stranger although i have succeeded at being strange at times.
      But i am still here and possibly will be here for an other 2 weeks or so...so let's change the world by one fraction .....we still have time!
      az

    6. You are not gonna be here very often? Sighhh...But you are coming Back as Long as You are Not Leaving ForEver Az don't scare me like that...Well I wish you the Best In Your Journeys Where Ever They May Lead You...You know I consider you My Friend Az, I know out of everyone else I am kind of a newbie as far as knowing everyone as long, as far as me getting to know folks when I have a connection with another spirit I have this feeling of what kind of person they are I have been strange like that since I was little and I can tell if that is person that I can become friends with or not... When I am your friend and you are mine You have my Loyalty Forever no matter what it does not matter if I have known you for a day or years..

      Soo I want to share something with ya.. one day just being noisy I clicked on your page and I must say something to you Az Wow You have accomplished alot of great things in your Life Az been to alot of places met different people You Are One Amazing Women :)

      You have touched my Life personally I have learned alot from talking to you. You are down to earth, up to earth, and out of the earth lol. You have wisdom, humbleness, and compassion for others. I give you my upmost Respect as a Human Being, Women, Mother.... Please keep in touch here on TDF it would not be the same without Azilda..Peace :D

      edit: Aww thanks.. you know how we always sometimes get scolded for chatting and it was brought up to contact you on your page so I was like fine then and I was gonna send you a message lol but you don't be on there you said after the fact darn...Weell All i know is when I have my wedding You gonna Be There and I want You To take Pictures and yep You gonna come see Me one day And We Gonna Kick It out on the Town Too Az Peace Out :D

    7. @Knowledgeizpower Peace, for once i call you by your full name!
      I remember when you started coming here not so long ago around the time i suggested a doc about New Orleans (i was off the map by a bit but you knew what i meant!)...i guess you were already visiting but no one knew that smile yet.
      Well if you lived near by, i'd come for one of those neutral massage and a chat and a laugh and a visit with all those bambinos running around, yours and the neighbour's.
      I like you too...but you know that too.
      Py is right i got the bug but this time it is with a different purpose, and they don't even know what's coming!

      Now guys we are off topic to the point where Valtko is going to delete these beautiful messages and i won't be able to read them in the coming year.

      so let's be full-on, the next little while...we got work to do...the world is in shamble!
      az

    8. why dont you guys all get skype, add me, and we can have large long running conversations? you can host conversations with as many people at once.

      honestly, this whole convo could have been had in 5 mins and continued if it were on skype....just do iiiiiiiit!

    9. Lol we should try this skype I guess huh it might be fun now that I think about Epicurus...you just want to be the host of a talk show lol :P But what a minute epicurus how you gonna talk about how long this convo is ya'll be over there on those religion docs and stay debating and have convos on that subject for about 2 or 3 weeks straight...I'm like gosh don't ya'll get tired of talking about it Lmao geez :D

    10. @IZ,

      Before you try Skype you should look into it, at least google "what is skype" I don't think it is for me as yet, it is about as secure as facebook, twitter and the rest. For one thing Skype is not standards compliant, allowing it and any vulnerability to pass through any firewalls be it corporate or otherwise.

      To do skype properly need a webcam, a mike, Hmm, might be good for in-house porn though, (just joking) honest!

    11. Omg You are so silly lmao.... I've heard about skype though I have a webcam on my laptop but no don't know about all the other stuff as far as standards whatever... but you right i should look into it but anyway Thanks Achems Razor Man! How have you been Big Guy Doing Great With New Gig I see lol okay let me quit and watch a Doc Peace...

      edit: ya'll are serious with that IZ thing hugh stop biting see what Az started I'm gonna get her back watch lol :D

    12. achems its just like an advanced MSN messenger. we arent going to be talking about over throwing the government or trading child porn i dont think you have anything to be worried about.

      settle down old man and come chat!

    13. No it is more than advanced msn messenger, and yes, I still prefer to have my autonomy. Before you know it most all people that come on site will want to chat, are you going to hurt there feelings and say no, everyone will know everyone"s e-mail addys. Won't work without e-mail.

      And do not tell me to settle down and do not call me old for chr1st s@kes you "Whipper Snapper," it does not look good for two moderators to be fighting! (LOL)

    14. Kinda leaning to Achems thoughts

    15. you dont need to display your email at all. and i wouldnt have to be there all the time.

      dont worry im over the idea. it is clear you guys would rather talk publicly on here.

    16. Here is a suggestion, everytime you guys find a comment is too personal and not doc related hide most of it and add at the end...see more...by clicking on see more the comments stretches back to it's full content. If people exagerate delete them, but you know that already.
      az

    17. the comment setup is not exactly customizable. that would be neat though.

    18. funny how i thought for the longest time, Achems was in his late twenties. Old man....now i am thinking he may be older than me.
      lol
      az

    19. Skype is actually a great way to connect with a few people. I will probably use it on the road. It is free if both parties have an account and you can see each other. No more expensive long distance out of country phone calls. I reserve that for my family members.
      But who knows, i'll let you guys experiment and if i see fit i'll join later, but as i said not a place to argue. Some of the arguments i have read here could cause some people to hit their computer smack in the middle. lololol
      az

    20. Joke apart, it would be interesting to see a naked native humanoid "Na'vi", hairy tail and all.
      az

    21. Don't forget the "Na'vi have naturally occurring carbon fibers, hard as a rock! and the Na'vi are big. (LOL)

    22. lol you are right and i wish i came up with the skype idea earlier and we wouldnt have had those long drawn out arguments.

      but no i dont want to be host or leader at all. it will have to be completely democratic.

    23. it does take 5 minutes to read those few comments and even shorter time to skip them.
      az

    24. I haven't been here long and I was getting to like your style. I hope your adventure is wonderful in every way. I have 3 daughters, the oldest is 17 and starting to go her own way, its hard to let go but but I love to watch her grow away from me. When she comes and shares I find myself loving her more than I realised and in a whole new way. As the Irish say, may the road rise to meet you and may the wind always be at your back ;)

  49. I wonder if similar legislation interpretations can be made in the good old USA.

  50. i just want to watch the complete film, that is all, over and out...

  51. film stopped at about the time of the first nations people section...what gives?

    1. How appropriate.

      Sorry CountJoseph. If you've read any of my posts you'll understand I hope.

  52. The spirit behind this documentary is laudable, and many of the ideas are important steps in the evolution of a person. But it is ultimately naive, and an incomplete philosophy. Society is a long way from perfect, and we have many changes to make and go through before we have a hope of making it better. But the problem with this film is that identifying the problems in our current world, is a long way from suggesting superior alternatives. You see, we need systems, and when you have systems they need to be managed in some way. Even simple things like organizing and managing a hunt. Or oral traditions, songs and stories. We need each other. And to work together, we need systems and management of those systems. The problem with utopian ideals is that humans are not perfect. People get hungry and tired, and become selfish. They steal from each other and become violent. This is not just a product of modern society. We have always been this way.

  53. Got no further than 01:17. Sorry, but when I hear MLK quoted as authority, I switch off. He was a liar, a frequenter of whores while professing to be a man of God and a plagarist. Period.

  54. So have any of you guys heard about this Occupy Wall St./ Occupy the Planet movement that is going on right now? Look up the "Declaration of Occupation," this doc seems to be on the same page. Change is in the wind, I just hope it's not to late.

    1. Yes!! You can check out the articles at Alternet . org, too, if you haven't already. There's a lot of good info over there you aren't likely to see in the major news broadcasts or papers.

      Remember: NEITHER THE REPUBLICANS OR THE DEMOCRATS ARE ON OUR SIDE IN THIS MOVEMENT. ( I'm assuming you're American.)

      Don't let them co-opt it, which is EXACTLY what they're going to try to do...

  55. @azilda,pysmythe,knowledgeizpower,achemsrazor, et al - Although I am loathe to reveal personal information about myself, this is an important subject and I'll make an exception.

    I do not say that a person should not free himself from the grips of the modern world, rather I contend these people in and of this doc are, to be blunt, full of sh*t and furthermore they know it. Their reasoning is crap and if you follow it you'll find yourself in deep doo-doo so to speak. Do you honestly think your government or any government is just going to let you flip them off. Remember, the gov't has the authority, if it wishes, to execute you (or imprison you for life). For all Mr. Page's bravado, he'll lay down and do tricks for the gov't if push came to shove. Of that I have no doubt whatsoever.

    Ten years ago I took a look around and decided enough is enough. Screw this pop culture and everything it has to offer. I saved, scrimped, and paid off everything I owed. I dumped my TV, car, and anything else that was standing in my way. I have no driver's license, state issued ID, or anything that the state can hold over my head. As far as Social Security, I am determined to get back what I paid in, and if that means I have to take a gov't check, then so be it. Otherwise, as long as I live my life peacefully, the gov,t and I have no problem.

    The upshot of this is that over a year ago I was able to retire (although I'm years away from retirement age). I do as I please and answer to no one. I don't fu*k with the gov't and the gov't doesn,t fu*k with me. Sometimes discretion really is the better part of valor.

    1. Hell I Hear Ya Loud and Clear Lakhotason....Them bastards need to Pay you Every Dang CENT....Wooh Wee don't hype me Up Today I'm Feeling Jovial Right Now Lmao...You Keep Doing Your Thing And Live Your Peaceful Life Don't Let Them Get You Down :)

    2. No, I know you don't say that, and you also made a very good point earlier, calling attention to what would very probably be a (troublesome) double-standard on Mr. Page's part.

      Whether or not it is somehow actually possible legally to (more or less completely) disenfranchise oneself from the government is the primary question I have about all this. Remember all those examples he gives about "entering into contracts," etc., and I just wonder how far such things could be extended, or by how many, too, before the boys in uniform came shootin'.

      The law is a very complicated thing, of course...And maybe it is possible to get it to serve our ends in some of these ways the government really wouldn't like, but should be legally unable to do much about before first changing them.

    3. Why would you want to completely disenfranchise yourself from government? Again let's use Mr. Page as an example.

      What if five or six yahoos pulled up on their property and wouldn't leave? What are Mr. Pages options up to and including using armed force? And what if all those options fail? Who is he going to call? Right, the police.Which is what he should (or would) have done right off.

      Let us imagine Mrs. Page, through a freak accident, receiving a life threatening injury. Who is Mr. Page going to call without hesitation? It's not gonna be a shaman. Right again - 911.

      Neither of these events can be called an aberration because both events often occur, sometimes together. The gov't does provide valuable services and Mr. Page would do well to pay his taxes if he owes taxes for I don't see him or his family opting out of that safety net.

  56. this was good to see - lots of ideas and thoughts i have had have been shared in this doc -

  57. man owning land is like a flee owning a dog.

    1. In that case, the government is like the flea-collar.

    2. Man living off a land, life has offered him for a period of time, is like a dog owning a territory, something he knows he has to share.
      az

  58. So far 35 comments and the majority attacking what this guy did.
    I don't think his choice is what others need to do to Ungrip, he did what he did because of his lifestyle. We can all Ungrip in our own way, for our own reasons considering where and how each and every one of us live.
    Small steps towards a freedom that represents our own personal need uncontrolled by rich corporate and governments.
    Frankly if i was him coming here to read these, i wouldn't give it two minutes.
    az

    1. I find what he's doing interesting and inspirational, but I just don't see how it could work if great numbers followed his example, with masses of people inevitably behaving as they do. But as you say, it doesn't necessarily have to be that way, anyway...I personally see some relation between what I believe is a good part of his motivation, and what's happening with the OWS movement, which is why I mentioned it earlier. I think if at least we can take back most of the control from the corporations, and make our votes really count for something again (at least here in the U.S...I don't know about Canada), and level the playing field economically much more, we won't have as much of the dissatisfaction that may lead to feeling like one has to more or less completely disengage from society in order to feel in control of one's life. And when I used the word exclusive earlier, I didn't mean that in a negative sense at all; some are made to be an example of possibilities even if it may be unfeasible for the masses to follow in their footsteps. And if some are able to do that, and they're convinced it would make them happy, then I think they should do it. If human nature were different, and if the majority of us weren't so lazy, selfish, greedy, and potentially violent, then I could easily see something like he has done being the start of a potential paradise on earth, akin in some ways to notions inherent with Rousseau's outline of the "noble savage," in the sense of people working for themselves, and living more in harmony with the earth, unencumbered with many of the harmful things ordinary civilisation brings.

      And I always have taken small steps, personally. I have refused to shackle myself with debt buying a bunch of BS I don't really need; I've never accepted a credit-card, and don't ever plan on doing so, despite the inconvenience this sometimes causes. I shop at thrift-stores for my own clothes, although I don't subject my wife and kids to that. I have not had cable or satellite tv for almost a year now, and don't plan on getting it reinstalled anytime soon. My wife and I plan on growing our own vegetables in our backyard this coming year, and THAT is really something that we should have done years ago, but, hey!... I home-school my children to make sure they get a sound education, because, honestly, the schools around here are generally comprised of a bunch of buffoons, and my kids are not up for membership in that tribe, if I have anything to say about it.

      I'm sorry you're so annoyed... Really...And I don't much know, or care, what other people may think about this topic...But I did want you to know that while I have a few qualms, and questions, I personally am not against his ideas... Perhaps I'm just not educated enough about certain things, and would find some of the misgivings I have to be insignificant if I knew more.

      Anyway, that's my grain of sand.

    2. Yeah I understand that also some of those things I do as well ain't nothing wrong with thrift shopping lol you can find cool stuff and you won't have to worry about someone else having on Your Same Outfit either by shopping at the mall lol.... But thats talking materialistics let me get serious for a second... Okay this is my issue now since we live in an age of technology and all those comforts like electric stoves washing machines microwaves computers phones all those things I personally don't want to live without..

      I would not mind living like this I really think it would be great I am looking into Home Schooling my children also because just like you said and I do agree with how these kids carry on at school and how it effects my kids and there is a certain way I bring up my children that I don't want them acting up either.... But I don't want to live like I'm all the way in the 1500's hand washing cloths and lighting oil lamps because there is no electricity and stuff because I did not come from that day in age I'm sorry... I would like to keep up with the times and own land and grow food I don't think I want to drive around in a horse and carriage I would like to keep my car...I'm not omish or anything and I'm NOT knocking on the Omish Folks I think they have the right idea lol but thats my feelings about this sigh thanks for reading my ramblings :D

    3. @iz
      Home-schooling is working out very well for us. We're in our second year of doing it, and my kids test-scores are showing definite improvement over what they were before. I think it's the individual attention they're getting, as much as anything else.

      If you're seriously considering it, give K12 . com a look. That's the program we've been using, and it has a number of advantages, among which are: A planned curriculum and tuition-free computer and materials supply. There's a number on the home-page you can call for further info, and they've always been very quick and helpful, without a lot of waiting or handing you off to others, only to get an answering-machine...

      About the computers...If you have two students, you'll get two computers to use, and so on, so you don't have to worry about sharing time on one, and thus lengthening the school day that way.
      Also, importantly, there are optional outings once or twice a month for your kids and the other kids in your area enrolled in the program, just so they can get a little socializing in with their peers, if that's something they'd like, or need, to take part in.

      Whenever the time is right, it might be a good thing to consider.

    4. You Are Biting LOL.....But Omg Pysmythe that is the Exact homeschooling Internet Program that I have looked into... This is really something Thank You...Okay so I requested the pamphlets and I received the packet in August..They just began the program here in Tn so it is new to this state...But K12 is like worldwide so I have read very great things about it..But there is a waiting list for the grades my sons are in and they have already began the school semester but I'm really thinking letting them finish out this semester and signing on in January.. But Thanks for the info that really gives me even more encouragement to start them in January rather than waiting until the end of the school year..Thanks Again :)

      Edit: Yees Thank You.. But Don't Take It Personal You Are Still Special To Me Too..You are part of the PIZZA Lmao :D

    5. If you do decide to go with it, I'm convinced you won't be disappointed. It's been great for us in every respect.

      ( Biting? Because of the name thing? I'll stop, if you like! )

    6. @ py
      I am not annoyed, because i don't turn my message into a joke as i often do, doesn't mean i am "so" annoyed. I was direct and honest and i believe quite right. You think a guy that has done three movies, several interviews, and many talks would give a second to the first 35 comments you find below?
      I thank you and iz for writing what you just wrote. I still have to write my "sand dune" and i will, but i want to hear the full radio interview before i comment, i have heard a small part of it so far and it makes a lot of sense. The guy is "life" smart in my opinion.
      I just left a house i was caretaking for the last 7 days and i have a lot of unpacking, grocery shopping, settling to do. I will be back soon, although not tonight i am going out on the town.
      az

    7. Have fun!
      I'm going to give your interview a listen, as well.

    8. Also the small town of Nelson where i live has a OWS walk on Saturday...i do plan to be there.
      az

    9. GOOD! Everyone needs to keep this thing going for sure. I'm seriously thinking about heading over to Wall Street itself, maybe on a weekend very soon, if they're still around. My mother-in-law lives right across the Hudson from it, in Orange, NJ.

    10. I like what you said Az small steps towards freedom that represents our own personal need uncontrolled by rich corporation and governments...this is what I don't understand as far as why people would want to attack as you say what this guy is doing...

      many many years ago didn't people live like this and were able to sustain..People worked on their own land and produced their own food they had large families taught their children at home what is wrong with living like that now?

  59. Quite boring, possibly because i don´t care about these ideas at all.

  60. There are many, many more holes in Mr. Page's philosophy. I'll shall wait and see if Mr. Stewart replies before I go into them. Right now I have a serious amount of video editing to do and I need to get on it. I'll check back now and again for Mr. Stewart.

  61. If everyone tried to live like this it would quickly degenerate into chaos, people fighting over land etc, at some point like minded people would get together and start making up rules to ensure harmony in their little community. That sort of thing catches on and eventually you back to square one with old money on top and the Jonny come latelys forever at the bottom wishing for more, or for freedom. We're pack animals, even though it nice to dream of striking out on your own it's nicer still to have others to snuggle up with ;)

    1. This is EXACTLY what I was getting at in my first post. It's a wonderful idea, it really is...but I'm afraid sooner or later, if too many took to it, we'd HAVE to resort to many of the same old institutions just to keep from ripping each others throats out.

    2. My parents were Hippies, heard a lot of this stuff in the commune as a kid but guess what, I still had to go to school and make a good job of not fitting in. From the outside the inside in a much better place to be. Feel I should point out though that I look back very fondly on my childhood, it was just odd!

    3. 1. 'everyone' would not try to live like this, there are as many options as there are humans
      2. you illustrate the world system we have and assume it is a natural phenomena which duplicates into infinity. This is not the case; the world is the way it is by design over thousands of years by heavily vested interests socially engineering humanity into a trap; it is a false concept which cannot be sustained as it requires the annihilation of humanity for the benefit of the minority psycopathic class.
      3. We ALREADY HAVE chaos.

    4. No...we do NOT already have "chaos". That statement cannot be at all substantiated, frankly. It goes too far. But I have little doubt that we are all in for a very visceral understanding of that word, if many things don't change significantly, and soon.

      And @fifty4fourty was NOT "illustrating a world system," but making a valid point about the nature of humanity in social groups, irrespective of whatever "heavily vested interests" are in charge. In other words, whether or not these groups are there, people will still be likely to behave in the same way, eventually creating such power structures again out of a need for order, if they are absent. Furthermore, the "design," or what we have now, has come about from everyone's input over the centuries, and if what we have at present is unsatisfactory (and, of course, it is, in many ways), it is really because we have allowed it to happen to ourselves...and that, out of human nature, from great and small alike.

      About the psychopaths running rampant in positions of authority now, you won't get any argument from me. But their power is but our credulity, and has therefore always been subject to the possibility of radical change at any time.

    5. I think we're exactly where we want to be but I don't think for a second that this is by design, this is where social evolution has led us. We are here by tacit consent which is also very natural. As with all animals we follow the path of least resistance. If everyone was left to their own devices and to govern their own actions the weakest would be at the mercy of the strongest or smartest. Individualism to that degree is a danger to society. This system we have now is by no means perfect but it is not chaos. It is a framework which allows for a reasonable amount of personal freedom. What level of freedom do you want? The freedom to opt out of paying tax and national insurance? would you forfeit your right to healthcare for you and you family to get that? Or maybe the freedom to shoot people that act in some way contrary to your idea of ok ? Are you prepared to die for the same or would you like some help to defend you and yours? I could go on but I think you should get my point by now. Live long and prosper ;)

    6. Well said.
      \_// Peace and long life. :)

  62. the guy may have native blood...kind of look like it to me...but we shall see...i sent him a request. I't being moderated at the moment, i copied it here just a few minutes ago....and no it is not my doc, just a suggestion among many others i regularly make to Vlatko.
    az

    1. I would be more than happy to discuss this with Mr. Stewart but whatever he says will not negate the fact that the land was seized by the state and that Mr. Page is the beneficiary of the state's action.

    2. ...

  63. I imagine she would. Oh, let us call our little war for independence a bygone also. I suppose that makes me a British citizen. It's amazing where you can go if you start using that "bygone" excuse.

  64. As for letting bygones be bygones then we should go all the way back to his claim that King John was coerced into signing the Magna Carta. Hell let us call that a bygone and let it be bygone.

    1. The Queen would LOVE that, I imagine, lol.
      edit- Oh, wait...

  65. Let's consider the very nexus of his life - the land. He seems pretty secure in the knowledge that it is his land, yet if we follow his reasoning then there can be only one owner of that land and that would be the original inhabitants. If he contends that his sovereignty is above the state's then surely he cannot deny that the original inhabitants' sovereignty also supersedes the state's (something the originals have been claiming since day one).

    Would he be willing to to give up his land to the first original that shows up to take it back? I don't think so. What he would do is take out a deed and demand that the claimant get off his land. And just who is the guarantor of his right to make that demand? That's right - the state. And if we follow that deed back to its very origin, we will find it was granted by - the state.

    As I contend, he talks the talk and that's all.

    1. I haven't watched the doc yet, but there is such a thing as "squatters rights", in Canada a squatter can own the land in 7 years, might have changed that to 10 years as in Ontario, in England it is 12 years.

      In the States it varies from state to state, any professional real estate investor having proper education in squatters rights can deem it to be profitable.

      There is also such a thing as a "freeman on the land" that originated, where else but in Canada. Who ever is interested should google all this stuff.

    2. All that may be true yet who was the first squatter and who was the first freeman. These people were forced from their land by the state.

    3. you know, now that you bring that up, i did notice that, too. in fact, doesn't he say regarding that, "At some point, we just have to let bygones be bygones, and move on," or words to that effect? i have to admit, that rankled me a little bit, as well. if he really believes in what he says, wouldn't it be consistent of him to pack it up, if such a claimant showed up on his doorstep? but put into such a situation as that, yeah, i'm afraid almost all of us would fall back on whatever legal force we could bring to bear. i hate to be so blunt, but it pretty much smacks of hypocrisy, doesn't it?

    4. It is nothing less than hypocrisy.

  66. I'll wait also. I will say that his claim to sovereignty dooms his whole philosophy. I would like to see if anybody else picks up on it.

    1. that's precisely the reason i said to az the other day that i wished i had a lawyer with me to answer questions, while watching this on another site. i'm not too sure about some of the claims he makes from a legal standpoint, but i don't know enough right off hand myself to answer them.

    2. In this case it is not particularly about law. If you are to follow his reasoning (or lack of it), there is a huge hole. Matter-of-fact, there is more hole than substance.

    3. could you go ahead now, instead of waiting, and be more specific?

  67. Mr. Page can certainly talk the talk but when it comes to walking the walk, that's a different story.

    1. All one need is to talk the walk of others who are inspiring and then walk the talk to inspire others.
      az

  68. This is one of the most intellectually challenging films I've seen on TDF so far.. absolutely fantastic. The core concepts are fascinating.

    1. One of many others at the core of doing instead of complaining.
      az

  69. this guy has a lot of good ideas, and information, but i think you have to be brighter and wealthier than the average bear to really pull something like this off, to say nothing about the level of dedication you'd need. to me, this is a little too exclusive, meaning that if too many of us tried the same or a similar thing, i'm afraid that sooner or later we'd end up with some of the same, or similar, systems of control and incorporation we were trying to emancipate ourselves from before. maybe, however, his particular approach is not ultimately the point...that probably being: what constitutes our ideas of real freedom, and our responsibility towards the achieving and maintenance of that for ourselves and our families?

    SUPPORT THE OWS MOVEMENT!! that's certainly a step in the right direction, in the meantime.

    1. Yes I agree with you there Pysmythe brighter and wealthier than the average bear...I see and hear you Pysmythe :) When you step out there on your Own that is a huge sacrifice not everyone can Afford to make that decision unfortunately...

    2. i know i couldn't do it, if that's what you mean.

    3. No thats not what I mean...I know that Anyone can do it, its just that you have to be in the right position to do it thats just what it all boils down to.. Most of us are on this sytematic way of thinking and living right... We work for someone to make a living instead of working for ourselves because really that is who we should be working for anyway is ourselves...When we have that knowledge and understanding and financial means then we can get out of the system...But its like we are already behind before we had a chance to get ahead if that makes sense... So in order for us to at least get a chance to get on the track to get ahead we have to Pay our way out of the System and alot of us are not able to do that which is screwed up you know what I'm saying Pysmythe that sucks...But I know it can be done...

    4. yeah, i could probably get the education required...the money would be more of a long term thing, and my wife's more addicted to convenience than i am, anyway. if that woman made 50 grand a month, she could figure out how to be broke. she's a wild child, and i love that about her, but i don't think she'd fare too well IN the wild. but on the other hand, we've both refused any credit-card offers we've ever gotten and paid cash for everything...the house we have was willed to us by her grandmother. our total debt right now is only about a $1000, so we're way ahead in that respect. if we were so inclined, come to think of it, i imagine it would be easier for us than it would be for most to take something like this on.

  70. HaHa Lol Az you are too cool for school :D! Thanks Vlatko this is really interesting... This guy made Kymatica if I am correct I enjoy his films they speak the truth imo..Get your UCC forms people alot of regular citizens in the US don't even know what those forms are google it. Move out of the city on some beautiful land, grow your own food, go green, use solar energy and live Peaceful :)

    1. It's not that i don't want or can't comment so far...but i am waiting to see what others have to say before i put my grain of sand.
      My life style has similarities with this guy, a choice i made quite a while back. It is a struggle at times but during the "breaks" which are numerous, it bring a huge amount of peace.
      az
      ps...thank you Vlatko, i knew you would (eventually) put it on.

  71. I love Robs gentle manner and his motivation. I can see where he's trying to go with his plan to step off 'the grid' and reclaim his basic freedoms but unless you can fake your own death and vanish into the wilderness someone somewhere will be keeping tabs on you. On the other hand the only thing you have to do is die, everything else is a choice. The whole way through this I had 'the revolution will not be televised' playing in my mind.