The Virgin Daughters
Cutting Edge explores the purity movement in America, where one girl in every six pledges to remain a virgin, or to save her first kiss, until her wedding day.
Award-winning documentary-maker Jane Treays investigates whether this decision is made by the girls themselves or their parents, and follows a group of fathers and daughters as they prepare to attend a purity ball in Colorado Springs, run by Randy Wilson and his wife Lisa.
Two things were striking to the outsider. The first was how young the girls were: Hannah, aged 11, was going to her fifth ball, having started at the age of seven.
The second was the central role played by fathers: they squire the daughters to the ball, dance with them, receive fulsome tributes from them (Hannah: I adore being your daughter. When you spend time with me, you make me feel like a beautiful princess), and later on will be called on to vet any young man showing an interest.
According to Randy Wilson, the minister (self-appointed, the commentary noted) who organizes the Colorado Springs ball, the father is the significant individual in a young girl's life: He is everything.
However, losing your virginity in todays world is an issue for all of us until we actually lose it. Once that happens, you wonder what all the fuss was about in the first place.
This is a new level of creepy. It's almost boarding on a unhealthy relationship with their fathers. These fundie Christians take control of their kids to a sick level (cult like). I have two teenage daughters. There father has never been a huge influence in their lives. Yet at 16 and 19, both of them are still virgins, they don't drink or smoke, they haven't had a serious boyfriend (because they hold themselves in high esteem and won't just date any guy). I have always been open and honest with them when it comes to dating and sex. They know that if they are ever going to be in a sexual relationship that they can come to me and I will take them to get birth control. So it's possible to teach your daughters self-worth without going to extremes like this. They sound like they are all brainwashed.
(last comment, promise ;) ). this doc in all is very disturbing. it's not the idea of virginity that troubles me here (because the point is, that you can do whatever the h*ll you want with your body, including not havingg sex, ever), but it's the absence of choice the girls have. they have no place to express themselves outside of their parents' expectations.
I find it revealing the difficulties the girls have to justify their "choice".
the parents are not trusting the girls to make decisions. how will they ever be able to trust themselves? obviously they never heard the saying "practice makes perfect".
and just,... what's with the "girls want to feel beautiful" ????? that's the frst and often only word they use to describe their daughters (contrary to their sons, which apprently deserve more rewarding compliments).
As a women, I would be offended if my dad only viewed value in wether I'm being and feeling beautiful or not. I don't want to be beautiful. I want to be brave, intelligent, compassionate, cunning, ... all the interesting stuff that doesn't make me a bland barbie doll that has her choice and life removed from her.
(and FYI, having sex and respecting yourself are not incompatible. If you know what you do and there is trust involed, sex is actually the best form of self respect ever. Why? because it actually feeels good. and judging other girls for "having a different boyfriend each month" is actually disrespectful.)
ow, even better then; the guy just decided that her daughter would be happier if she only kissed one man in her entire life, when he probably f$cked himself plenty of girls. what's that phrase again... double-standard?
they obviously are misogynistic (is this the right term? english ins't my motherlanguage) basta$ds who can't accept women making their own choices, and want to keep their precious daughters from becomming like the slutty ones their sleeped with when they were young, while ignoring that they were also someone's daughter. in fact, they don't want their daughters to be disrespected, shamed and viewed as they themselves view other women.
just watched the first 3 minutes of the video... and I'm already upset.
The only thing the father wishes for his daughter is for her to meet a
guy. Not for her to find happiness wether on her own or with someone,
but he's basically saying to her that her life fullfillment depends on
another person (who's basically a younger version of himself). if it's
not conditionning girl to be dependant, passive and not take credit and
responsability of her own choices, I don't know what it is.
I grew up being taught the "purity" message in my church youth group. When I was 12, a woman did a demonstration with a paper heart where she would rip off pieces to represent every man we were ever with before our husbands. All that was left at the end was a small scrap and she said that if we had sex before we were married our husbands wouldnt be getting our full heart. We were also told that good Christian men didn't want women who weren't virgins. This same type of message was drilled into my brain the entire time I was a part of that youth group. We were taught that even looking at a boy we were attracted to and having "impure" thoughts was a sin. I went through one of these ceremonies. I got a purity ring too. I lost my virginity at 18 while drinking. I felt so horrible about myself because of all the shame I had been taught. I was already "damaged goods" so I figured it didn't matter who I had sex with at that point and I went through a time when I was very promiscuous. I am now married to a wonderful, godly man. My marriage is just as special as the marriages of people who waited. Actually, my marriage has lasted longer than many of the people I did know who waited. But the guilt and shame that was drilled into me by this movement seriously hurt my self worth and self esteem. These people need to realize that putting all this emphasis on virginity is the reverse-objectification of women. It is harmful and dangerous.
Wow. Okay. I see a lot of great things here. I see fathers who genuinely love and cherish their daughters. I see fathers who have a real interest in their lives and real relationships. I agree that a strong relationship with her father is very protective for a young woman. It's too bad that the entire thing is based around whether or not a man has had access to her vagina. It's too bad that love isn't actually unconditional. And it's too bad these men feel a sick need to have their daughters worship them. Take purity and god and father worship out of it and like the concept.
Oh my, kinda creepy watching young girls in beautiful white dresses, doing ballet around a crucifix, in front of their fathers.
The Reverend Randy was "Captain Creepy" in my book.
I wonder if any of these girls, 5 years later, have run off and joined a motorcycle gang; far, far away from their creepy dads.
I'm all for encouraging young girls to hold onto their virginity, but not to the extent of these people.
freud would love this
when you love someone just for sex
in time they may become your ex
your then left with a broken heart
since both of you were torn apart
your certain to ask yourself why
they were once a nice girl or guy
the reason you should know and feel
when you first met they were not real
you saw their superficicial side
and thats why its so wrong to hide
the type of person that you are
GOD sees all watching from afar
HE hurts when HIS children feel pain
so know there is nothing to gain
loving them for their outershell
you will not be able to tell
if what united you was fate
if theyre really your true soulmate
to make a relationship last
commit to a sexual fast
that ends at the marriage union
thats between a man and woman
you then are free to procreate
and will know its been worth the wait
bypassing sex for making love
and pleasing GOD who is above
so be the ones who buck the trends
instead become eternal friends
before you share that special kiss
that is the start of wedded bliss
One thing that really annoys me is how they seem to think that they've cornered the market on how to remain virgins because of their religiousness. But I am a 22 year old virgin who has never even kissed someone and I was raised secular and have never been a Christian. I'm an atheist and I'm just doing whatever the **** I want and that just happens to not include romantic or sexual relationships.
47:50--actually no, you jerk...that's not what any woman wants to know. Some of them want to know that they are respected and valued for something besides their appearance or their sexual status.
I feel for these girls, being indoctrinated by men as to how a woman should act in a relationship. Sad to say I didn't see any boys, but then again a boy not waiting is chalked up to boys being boys. Having been through this type of religious up bringing I can say that you can take back your life and make your own choices when it comes to relationships.
There was a boy. The 21 year old man (Colton, I think?), the son of the self proclaimed preacher, talked about being a virgin until he got married. He even talked about how he wants to save his first kiss for his wife.
Creepy, Look at one of the early stories - Jessica. Totally involved in this then falls in Love, starts having sex , full of shame, lots more sex, no sex education, gets pregnant, condemned by church, mom, dad. Now mom views her as a "lesser person". These are SICK people who put their children through "Hell on earth". I would rather have my granddaughter sane (and viewed by these terrorist as being a slut) that to have her mind and life screwed over by something like this. Now Jessica's mom might be unwittingly doing her the best favor she can by rejecting her life stile and her boyfriend. With luck Jessica might just move on and live a healthy life away from this awful excuse for a mom. My college age granddaughter is so close to her dad but in a healthy way; not like these sick dads who sure do appear to be undercover pedophiles. Some of these girls will get through this without a damaged mind but most of them will suffer through much of their childhood and as young adults and even worse might pass this illness on to their female children. Almost to the other extreme they introduced David who appears to be a spoiled old man who lived only for himself and now that the curtain is closing on his selfish life he is trying to blame it upon the couple of "older girls" who "took advantage of him" and setting out to get some of his daughters in this path of shame. Watching the reverend Randy Wilson pass his blessing upon all his children exposes him as the real person he is a control freak who see himself as god (self appointed it should have been be noted in the article). And finally Randy Wilson's exhausted, overworked, depressed and over screwed (seven kids and five miscarriages) wife said it just about right - She said that she did not know how she could be the best mom for these kids. Maybe she should have taken some birth control and put her foot down or kicked this primadona self appointed controller of virtue and womanhood to the curb.
How sick is it that she didn't have the education necessary to prevent a pregnancy? At 21!! It's so dangerous and irresponsible to send a teenager out into the world without knowing how to protect him/herself. But that's what the abstinence only people do with all of their kids :/
20:10 the sanity moment . thought this documentary was stupid in the first place
13:30 man that scared the shyt out of me !
What a conspicuous motif: some moms and dads admitting to have had premarital relationships yet taking a hard line on their children when it comes to their purity. As an authority, they simply lack credibility.
i smell electra complex......
yes sir ! electra complex and pedo fathers sometimes I hate the universe for being random and relative . Y not strike'em with a lighting?
these young girls are being taught to respect themselves and that's good but how do they know what they really want unless they go out into the world and date other men to see what they like and don't like in a relationship.
This is just plainly revolting. Why not just lock them away in convents to keep the brainwashing going?
1 in 3 women are sexually assaulted some time in their lives.. Many of them by family members. My father took my purity, then implied I need to be a virgin on my wedding night.
These balls set these girls up for huge quantities of shame and self hate for the very part of them that makes them human and female.
There is nothing wrong with waiting, Not by scriptures, but by the reality that you should know a person well before you become physical.
They have fed these girls the lie so hard that they have no chance at all.
And.. What happens if one of these girls comes out? Does that mean that they can never be with anyone because they aren't attracted to men?
I lost all respect for the man in the beginning who said "I don't want my daughters to catch cancer of the cervix". Really? You don't know the stories of the women who get HPV at all. Being one of them, I was VERY offended.
I was with a man whom I loved, and who I thought loved me back. Little did I know, he was loving about 4 different women while we were in our relationship. Might I add that he was my first? Might I add that I was engaged to him?
The people in this film (so far, I had to stop and comment) strike me as so judgemental. Who are they to say that someone who got a disease was, for lack of a better word, a slut?
Because I sure as I am sitting here, was not.
Creepy-disturbingly religious documentary, with relationships bordering on incest. This is not healthy.
Sex is a part of life.
Get used to it. Accept it. Do it. Move on.
Also, your religion is fake. Accept it, move on.
Much better than being a sex slave...There's Nothing wrong with a "strong relationship" with your father. As a young girl in society today, experiencing the wrong impressions can be tragic.
honestly my first thoughts involved judgement and swearing but isn't setting a higher standard for yourself something good?" I admire yet, scratch my head at there...beliefs
Does one not learn from mistakes?
I had no role models either way, so you can call me "one who made many mistakes" so i think guidance is needed. BTW Colton, kudos to you sir, either your a great liar or your legit! seriously though i look at this as trying to be a good person.
people are weird, and the almost trance like nature of those young girls was strange to me. they mostly repeated what there parents had told them or "scripture" no free thought really, the one on one interviews made that clear. im not saying there mindless zombies!!! but thinking outside the box *cough cough* the bible, can teach young minds alot as well.
I can argue the benefits of experience, now i just need some one who can argue the benefits of inexperience and we can put any arguments to rest...
The numbers say this doesn't work so well. Basically what happens is the women have sex a little later (I think it was as much as 18 months on average). But then when they do have sex, they are much less educated on how to handle it in a responsible manner, so there is higher unwanted pregnancy and STDs. The other side effect seems to be that the young women engage in risky behavior like oral and anal sex because such a high (in my opinion obsessively strange) amount of attention is given to traditional intercourse. I'm not opposed to teaching kids abstinence, but not at the expense of practicality and education. There's something pathological to this "movement".
A Different Perspective:
i had "lost" my virginity dozens of times before my 6th birthday [involuntarily] - growing up, and listing to years of girl/"purity" rhetoric in church, i secretly felt horrifically ashamed & that deep inside i was somehow "ruined" & even "evil."
i actually do believe in waiting - not necessarily until marriage, but until you find a partner/future partners for whom you truly care - out of self respect, more than anything else. but look at the numbers: 44% of all rape/incest victims are under 18. by calling ALL premarital sex "evil" - we are intrinsically labeling these children "bad".
i wish the adults in the video would realize how much they are probably hurting so many of the ones who they claim to help.
they may as well get married to their fathers, smh.
Why would you choose to believe in something that prevents you from happiness? Are you afraid of being unchained and being free? Isn't it better to first believe in yourself than someone or something else?
lol such a fail... this is so wrong..
"freedom for our daughters"?!?!?! yeah, certainly "freedom" is overused nowadays, mostly for them who would kill them before letting their own daughters to live thoroughly and FREELY their own sexuality.
I think here we can see a lot of confusion of concepts, melting freedom, god, bible, fatherhood, love, protect, dignity, self respect and inner value; but let's start with one thing:
1. parents can't avoid the "pain" of being human at all for their children. If they think they are parents to do so, they are really damaging their daughters and sons. Pain and deception, and making mistakes is part of growing up, and becoming a better person. The only thing that parents can do is to love their children in a healthy way, obviously telling that they are important, unique and beautiful, but also and equally important: letting them the knowledge of the world, and not scaring them with the freakish discourse that "evil" is everywhere, including within them, and that's what THEY DO when they teach their children that sexuality is a sin, because the bible says so... come on, have you read, for instance, The Song of Songs?!?! (in the bible)
2. The inner value of a women NOT LIES in her sexuality, nor her virginity, it is also as stupid as saying that the value of a man has anything to do with his penis, tha value of a human has to do with other things, and certainly we have value merely for exist, for being. The goodness of a person, also, has nothing to do with his or her religion, it has to do with knowing that every human is important, that everybody counts and deserve a good trait, this is ethics. If someone is good just because one "god" says so, let me tell you...this is just being good because of the consequences that almighty "god" will send to that someone.
3. do you know that long ago, in the XIX century, and before that, almost up to the greeks classical time, exists something that doctors called "hysteria", when they treat women that were sad and restless, who were good, really good christians, and as a christians, they knew that anything near sexuality was immoral, evil, sin, so they barely lived under their own skins, which led the doctors to treat them, you know how they treat them? rubbing their clitoris, that was the treatment, believe it or not... the bibliography, i of course give to you, you can read that fully in Maines, Rachel: "The Technology of Orgasm", you can google it, i'm not lying.
Well, that false disease ended up, when more openness let women be able to touch themselves without that awful sense of guilt. Is this movement leading to more pain to the girls who will become woman and live in a world where just the man has the ultimate word? I thought that we have superseded the men's validation of a woman. I guess not.
Women: don't let anyone to tell you what to do or not with your body, clitoris, sexuality. Let yourselves discover what please you and what not. Know and enjoy your own sexuality.
Everybody: dont think that the women's worth lies in her vagina, our value -of men and women- lies in our capabilities of being good humans, good citizens, good inhabitants of this poor planet. And being good not always means "to be obedient", many times it means the opposite, we have to read a lot and be critical and curious in order to decide what is good for us like humans.
I also recommend you all the books of Shere Hite, especially The Hite Report of Female Sexuality.
Sorry for my grammar mistakes, I write you from Mexico. :)
I have read the whole bible many times and it is the only religious doctrine that degrades and enslaved women. This might be due to the monks who hates women and while translating the bible translated in their own perspective and as time went on so their view on women.
I have to disagree with you here, there are several religious texts that degrade and enslaved women. While Islam is an incredibly hot-button issue, it has several passages saying that it's perfectly fine to rape your wife - as a matter of fact, it's not even rape because it is the wife's duty to satisfy her husband's needs. A young girl was engaged to a Muhammad when she was six years old and married him when she was nine. This is not the only religion that does this, it's merely the first example that came to mind because I've been studying the Koran quite a bit.
I don't follow any religion whatsoever, and I'm not trying to start an argument, but please check statements like this before you post them. Statements like this only breed ignorance, and ALL systems of belief should be inspected with a fine-toothed comb. Women have been the source of enslavement and degradation for centuries, it didn't begin with Christianity, it's just merely the most acceptable one to talk about.
You claim to have been "studying the koran" so please point out the passages that state "it's perfectly fine to rape your wife". By pointing out I mean specify the verse and chapter.
quran never said that it is perfectly fine to rape your woman after that you answered your self when you said that it is not rape will sister when you study quran you should syudy hadith "sahihe" with you because some time quran alone is not enough ex: quran says you sould prey but it was never mentioned how to prey or how many and sometimes the translation doesn't give you the wright perspective.
I agree with this documentary. I'm not religious, but I will say that from personal experience and the absence of a father, it has caused some detrimental effects on my life and relationships with men. I've tried to please in every way, sometimes leading to sexuality, which in fact lead to being used. I was a virgin until I was 20 regardless, but I wish I would of waited. I'm now 35 and still not married, have issues in relationships, and wished that all along I had the love, care and support from my father. I truely believe that my life would be different. I respect these fathers for making their daughters their world. When these girls are ready for marriage, they will have the self-respect and the tools to assess a real man for a relationship. Just a thought.
Great statement. I'm glad you posted this. I agree wholeheartedly...
Prettyflower, no man should take advantage of a woman. I have a daughter that I would love to love, but I do not know where my ex took her. I would like to hear more about how your father not being around caused your life changes
I disagree with most of the comments here. I think this is a wonderful goal for young ladies to have in this day and age of moral decay. Too many youths are forced to grow up early because of becoming sexually active, when they are neither physically or mentally prepared and then having to deal with the consequences of not having a committed person in your life. Anyone who chooses to have as many partners as possible, then get married when their old and worn out has no respect for their future spouse. And anyone who chooses to live with someone without being married to them (no matter how in love you are) has to live with the constant knowledge that you are not committed to each other. My husband and I were both 27 when we got married. We knew each other from high school and knew that we were attracted to each other. Although we are not part of this movement, As Jehovah's Witnesses we both decided to live by Bible principles and not have sex before marriage. We have been happily married for 5 years, have a beautiful daughter, and deeply love and respect each other.
This documentary only focused on the girls. My only wish is that this movement encourages their young men to remain pure as well.
I have a few questions, and I would like them answered. Seriously, answer, I may disagree, but I would like them answered, just to see what goes on inside your mind. I promise not to judge.
If you could either go to worship or visit your sick husband in a hospital, where would you go? If your child got pregnant unmarried, what would you do?
I know it seems I'm just heckling. I'm not. You don't have to reply. But I will say this: If souls matter, who cares about the purity of body?
will the first is easy you should visit your sick husband in the hospital because in monotheistic religions taking care of your husband and loving him equals whorship of god .
If purity is that important then why aren't they teaching it to boys as well?
It sounds like something insecure men have set up to just make 'PENIS' seem Holy.
colton is werid
I feel so sad for all these little girls! They are forces in their early ages to do something which particularly they have no clue what it is. Their parents and mostly dads build for them unreal life from which sooner or later they will wake up and hit the reality. I am really trying hard not to judge these parents, but thinking about what is going to happen to these young women and how brain washed they are, I am afraid of their reaction when they actually wake up from the fairytale.
From a psychological point of view children shouldn't be that attached to any of the parents because it's going to be hard to live on their own after that and to build anything alone. That's how certain disorders are actually activated in the early twenties, especially in girls.
So... what I see done here is this:
-girl attends purity ball
-girl is sold this unrealistic romantic idea of how real life men & boys are supposed to treat her -i.e. take care of her, tell her how to live and love her in return for her adoration, vorship, and submissal to their authority
-in other words, we're back to 18.th century gender roles
Kudos for manipulation.
...don't know how they think this is a good thing for their child.
I felt a little sad for myself watching this because even though I had a father we had no relationship at all. For me I would have to admit that I was looking for validation from men at an early age because of it.
'I see the world and there's sex and drugs and partying....', sounds like a pretty fun world to me! Seriously though have these fathers never heard of condoms? They seem to be worried about pregnancies and STDs/STIs that are so easily preventable: these parents seem to be fear mongering and presenting an unrealistic presentation of human inequalities. Also I wonder what would happen is one of these girls came out as homosexual or bisexual? *shudders at thought of the treatment they'd receive*
An unhealthy interest in their daughters. When they mature every fella they get close to will be their daddy. A little bit sick. Do they spend as much time with their wives.
"the father is everything?" :/
I wouldn't consider it a bad thing that these girls are giving the vow to wait until marriage but kind of don't think that it should be up to the father on who gets to be with his daughter. On the other hand, I would never do this lol. Well now at least, I enjoy living life the way I do and I believe that everyone expresses themselves in different ways. If they look down on it well then that's their opinion.
its great to know such thing exist in america.i m happy about it.but what happens if they don`t find husband on time,how do they cope with the challenge.we are in the days the Bible says 7 women will cling to one man due to scarcity of husband
Yeah. This is creepy.
This was so my life.. I had to sign a commitment to God and also wear a promise ring to God stating that I would wait until marriage. I think I was 12 at the time and was totally fine with the idea of waiting until marriage. All through highschool I struggled, had crushes on guys but felt that if I had feelings or even entertained the idea that was sinful. It was a lonely 25 years. I gave my virginity at the age of 25 and now would not wish that on my two girls. Not that I encourage sex at an early age. Just that they need to be sure that they are in love and the guy is totally commited to them. I think it is a very large burden for someone to carry. I also had both of my children out of wedlock which was totally locked down apon and was told that not only was that sinful but that now I apparently am not a Christian because how could I disobey God and still be one. The burdens that Christians endure from the church are heavy. When it clearly states in the bible that "Love" is the greatest comandment. Love others. Anyways enjoyed the documentary and If you have taken a vow with God to save yourself that is totally your choice. It is a hard thing to do and these girls did not protray it the way I endured it. They were smiling the whole time making it seem that they were happy.. Maybe they were. My thoughts also about waiting is that if a women only dates one man and that is the man she is sappose to marry . I think that leaves room for adultery in the future and leaves room for your mind to wander. I dont recomend this sort of thing because I do not see it as healthy. Now if my daughters make a choice by themselves and not being persuaded by someone else to do so, then good for them. I would be very proud. But If they want to date in there teen years then I also think that is great. I also think to live with someone before you get married is a good idea because you get to see the person in everyway and then when you actually say those vows you can be more at peace knowing that you know this person and what your to expect once you get married. I think marrying quickly because you don't want to sin is the wrong motives. Sorry if I offend anyone these are only my personal feelings and opinions.
My mom's only ever kissed one man in her life. I'm pretty sure if she'd tried out a few more, she wouldn't have married my dad, and she'd be a happier lady for it.
This doc was really disturbing and scary to me. I find it especially illustrative that there doesn't seem to be a similar movement by parents to lock their sons up and keep them from ever dating, kissing, etc. Sexual "purity" and the cult of virginity is all about property rights and proof of paternity.
The bit about little girls wanting to marry their daddies was rather terrifying, too.
I guess what this documentary is conveying is that the only way in which a woman can be happy or fulfilled is if she remains sexually inactive until marriage (I dread at using the word pure, as I believe that purity should not be equated in any way with abstinence). So a woman is fallen and rejected if she enjoys her sexuality, and mind you that's for her own well being.
I understand that we live in an overly sexualized society, but this only reinforces the importance of sex rather than accepting it as a normal part of life and educating ourselves about it as much as possible.
I am also troubled by how much meaning the father is given. For most of the families it seems that the father is viewed as this infallible God like figure, or at least as the person that knows best.
Also, from the time you are a toddler you are told that you HAVE to marry, HAVE to make babies, and of course that you HAVE to be straight. This is disturbing on so many levels, so I'm just going to stop rambling :)
I get some of the concepts of the father daughter relationship as being very important, because nowadays I see so many young girls screwed up because they were not exposed to a healthy male role model.
I will not say that I agree with semi-brain washing an impressionable mind into believing that love-marriage-babies is the way to go. But I do understand the need for more effort to be placed in the rearing of our youth. I like the fact that the community give each other support.
It takes a village to raise a child.
I don't know for me the way they portrayed the father daughter relationship was very unhealthy and personally I would be scared if my father thought that I should sign off my virginity to him till I bring home somebody that after careful consideration he might or might not approve of. It's not even about role models in this documentary, it's about him telling you what you should do, and you either obeying or being a fallen daughter.
And I also think that saying that some girls are screwed up because they didn't have a healthy male role model is probably a huge oversimplification and trivialization of the conditions or situations that they might have faced growing up.
Personally, my dad has always been away from home at work somewhere abroad so you could say that I didn't have what you would traditionally call "a healthy male role model"in the home. But I know he loves me and I've never needed him to control my life so I could go down the right path.
Honestly, I think it was the fact that my parents trusted me to make my own decisions that made me more responsible since I felt an obligation to kind of earn the trust that they had already given me. So I think this type of overbearing parenting is not protecting these kids, on the contrary I even think that it is making them dependable and scared of their desires and maybe even their dreams.
These people are trying to fix their own mistakes through their kids, which is not unusual in a parent you would say, but the manner in which they are going about it doesn't bode well to me. You should teach your children the lessons you have maybe learned, but you shouldn't make them sign a contract saying that they will live the way you want them to.
that guy Ken is so creepy
That guy Ken kind of freaks me out
Such obvious brainwashing of these children by their parents...absolutely ridiculous.
Its child abuse! Girls as chattle. Girls being told they will be LESS worthy if they even KISS a boy. Completley disgusting manipulative fathers. They should be ashamed of themselves. Being a missing father is bad, but intruding to the point where yo uare STUNTING their growth - and also devaluing boys who are apparently vessles of disease and trustworthy - is disGUSTING. Women who abused like this by overly control freak fathers have so many problems later in life. Why not teach your daughter to be intelligent and not be so concerned about her beauty or giving away PIECES of her - GAWD.
Why one shouldn't wait until marriage:
1. With two virgins, the wedding night's gonna be dissappointing...
2. It's important to explore your sexuality, cause it's part of who you are. If you get married before you've gotten to know yourself, and your partner, sexually, do you really know each other well enough?
3. If you wanna have sex, but want to "save yourself", you'll probably get married sooner, if not you'll have to deal with a lot of sexual frustration. Sex isn't a big commitment, but marriage is and a regular break-up is a lot easier than a divorce. The point is: have sex, but use protection. No-one wants a shotgun wedding.
4. If your virginity is a gift, you can always re-wrap it. If Jesus fed thousands of people with just a few loaves of bread and fish, surely your gift can bring joy to more than one person.
5. Sex is fun.
Explore your sexuality responsibly, in a way you feel comfortable with. There are reasons why you shouldn't wait until marriage, but it's your choice. I'm simply presenting my arguments.
I could comment on the outdated views on women and sex the abstinence movement represents, or on the incestuous vibes, but I feel they have been adressed in other comments.
I am sixteen years old. i first slept with my boyfriend when l was fourteen, after realising I was madly in love with him. And two years later, I am still in love with him. Out of my peer group, we're the ones with piercings and dreads, only a third of them are virgins.
But I'm irish, attending a catholic school. Probably 95% of Irish secondary schools are catholic, run by the bishop of your dioscece. We recieved no sex education whatsoever, despite the fact it's on the curriculum. The only mention ever of contraception was made bt a science teacher saying how it helped heavy periods but neglecting to tell us it was a contraceptive. Sure, we're teenagers and we know everything anyways, but I consider this a serious failing. We're all having sex, so why not talk about it?
The problem I have with this is not the choice not to be promiscuous (which is entirely personal) but the way that they manipulate the girl's choice through the lies, miseducation and sheltering from the truths of sex.
Like, they think that having sex before marriage means you'll get an STD, but you're suddenly immune to them once you're married? This method of "tell them nothing" is one of the reasons STDs are such a problem now, because so many children grow up not knowing how to use condoms.
I was taught about sex, and I educated myself about it to a great degree in the spaces where public education failed. I still chose to wait, because guess what; women are people who can make their own independant, informed desicions about this.
On another note, the level of emotional involvement the parents have in their daughters sex lives is extremely unhealthy. Some of them are even pretty much admitting that they are trying to live again vicariously through their daugters by imposing control over their sexualities. Yikes! I forsee heavy councelling in their futures.
And yes there is something incestuous about the idea of being married to your father. You know, by definition of the terms "married" and "father".
Conclusion; save sex for marriage if you want, but do not do so just because you are told to by someone else and without educating yourself about the topic to inform your choice.
One in six girls in a America take a purity pledge? I live in Colorado, am 20, and I have never heard of any of my female friends taking a purity pledge. Maybe more conservative areas skew these statistics or girls at the age of 5 pledging.
5.41: who'd you like to marry when you grow up? oh my daddy....
This seems to me that the parents have to much control over the kids. I cant even watch the whole thing. It's insane, i'm sorry. Not the fact of being a virgin till marriage, but that the fathers are so involved.
how come there are no virgin sons, huh? This is a sexist view point. I am not spending my life to get the stamp of "you're beautiful" from a man. Don't we want our children to decide what they want to believe for themselves? If you brainwash someone to believe something from a young age, it is not a genuine belief---it is yours imposed on them. Christians, I see through you. Have lots of kids and brainwash them so you can keep your stupid religion going. I feel sorry for you.
Actually, they do have purity balls for boys, but those boys pledge to remain virgins because "if they have premarital sex with a girl she could be someone's daugher or future wife, and therefore they do not want to soil them". So you're still right, it's definitely sexist. It harkens back to the "women as property" days, where you could still trade your virgin daughter for some cows.
this just screams sexism...like the only important thing for a woman is to look beautiful, and thats a controlling dad thing...make sure she doesn't date and make sure the guy lives up to them, which this goes back to the ancient days when i woman is under the authority of their fathers, then get married and be under the authority of your husband...ridiculous...and what ur immoral if u have premarital sex? safe, pleasant, and awesome sex? really? these people
Right on. Why are the fathers so obsessed with the girls' sexuality and assuring them that they're beautiful? Why not assure them that they're intelligent, responsible, skilled, ethical, talented, or strong? Then let them be smart, responsible adults who can make their own bedroom decisions.
I also think that it is amazing to see father's so involved in their daughter's lives! No matter which side of the "debate" you may be on...that is at least one undeniably positive aspect of this. :)
While it's good to think that fathers want to be involved in their daughters' lives, the way these men are interacting with their daughters is entirely inappropriate. I'd rather the fathers want to respect their daughters intelligence and raise them to make their own informed decisions instead of guarding them from boys and having to stamp their fatherly seal of approval on the poor girl's first kiss.
I seriously applaud these girl and their families. Nothing wrong with putting a high value on yourself and waiting for sex. More often than not, having sex young and unmarried does usually lead to a lot of heartache and heart break. I bet a vast majority of people out there ALSO wish they had waited for sex a little longer even if they may not admit openly to it. I do think however, that it is extremely sad that a family would be so judgmental and purposely distant themselves from their own daughter for making the "mistake" of having premarital sex. She's still their child for goodness sake and true Christian parents would never treat her that way. The girl obviously feels bad and guilty enough over it! They should forgive her and move on! Hate the "sin" not the sinner! I would love it if my children (both my girls AND boys) made the choice to remain virgins until they were married...and I do advocate for it. But, I am also very realistic and open with them and would never EVER put them down or think less of them for choosing to have sex sooner. Sex isn't a bad or dirty thing. It is human nature for all of us....but I do agree that waiting is usually best. I wish I could look back on my life and say that I had only been with one man...my husband. That is a pretty special thing to be able to say, especially in this day and age!
I think it's a bit ridiculous to assume that most people who have sex before marriage regret it. You may look back at your life and wish you had waited, but the fact is that you can wish that simply because you didn't wait. If you had waited until marriage and your husband had been completely sexually incompatible with you, you'd just be stuck.
I have very mixed feelings about this movement. I want to agree with the parents when they say that it is hard to live in a man's world where you are expected to ''put out'' and at the same time get called names for doing so. I think if the girl is truly aware of what she is doing then it's great! However, some of these girls seem to be hiding their true feelings and asking them questions in front of their parents won't assure that they are telling the truth.
On another note, I love the idea of the ball. Every girl wants to feel like a princess and I guess the father bonding is important. I also realize it's manipulative of the parents to do that. I just imagine the parents saying ''all that money we wasted on your virginity, for nothing!'' if their girl does decide to get a boyfriend.
Finally, I think that the parents should assure they are bonding with their daughters but not forcing them to live by their beliefs (especially since most of those parents didn't live bu those rules. I personally hate it when my parent use their life as an excuse for me not to try something new.)
"...known Brett for just 8 weeks..." I smell a rocky marriage.
Lazy parenting is what this is. Don't want your kids to go through heartbreak? Tough luck - heartbreak is a part of life! What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Don't want your kids to contract a disease or cervical cancer? Educate them on safe sex.
Don't shelter your children!
This is so disturbing. But I can't honestly say I'm surprised. Religion is ridiculous.
how the hell can you not have an intimate relationship before you get married?
Gotta brainwash 'em while they're young, I guess
I live in the US, and I was raised a Christian (now an atheist), and I've never even heard of these Purity Balls.
Of course, church in Colorado is...well, huge.
It's a puppet!!!!!!!
I see Daddy's lips move at 11:39!!
As a father of 6, (3 girls), my dream, my passion, is that they might follow a path that they construct themselves with only the subtlest of guidance from the previous (& thus potentially, more knowledgeable), generation.
As a dad the best I can do is hope all my kids hurt themselves, and as few other people as they need to, before they understand pain, and thus (hopefully) learn the spirit and morallity of a non-religious and judgemental humanity.
Watchng the (carefully chosen), dads on this footage makes me wonder if they've had a few 'issues' growing up and are being a tad 'Uber-Hetero' to compensate. It's very creepy. It's very sad.
Why is it that women have to save themselves for marriage but men do not?
seriously the father at 13 miuntes is staring down his daughter like a marionette.
Oooops! I think you need a new keyboard!!
"Like a Paedophile" appeared on the posting as "Like a Marionette" :/
i have watched 9 minutes. when does choice come in. honestly, choice, not indoctrination, basic choice. Being a woman, being a woman should not require validation from thier fathers. How dare they feed on the insecurites of adolescence and carress the idea that emotion and femininity are monstres and must be repressed and tamed prematurely. religion isnt the problem so much. people are. the guilt ridden fathers are. nurture dont repress.
Choice doesn't come into it! It's a "religious thang"!
So we basically agree that women are still getting the short end.
Except the one's I've been out with :D
In case you didn't know, this traditional concept of purity and virginity in women comes from a time period when men sold their daughters into marriage. The firstborn child (if male) received a man's inheritance, so men wanted to be certain that their firstborn child was actually their own. For this reason, they would pay significantly more money/land/whatever to the father for a wife who was still a virgin. As a consequence, fathers developed strict attitudes about virginity toward their daughters... because it made them more money.
As a nice aside to this, Deuteronomy 22:28-29 states that if a man rapes a woman who isn't already engaged to someone else, he has to pay her father (because he's devalued the saleability of the woman) and marry his victim (who has no say in the matter). No divorce permitted. Sounds lovely.
Now you know.
Back up a little bit here Gumdrop. It usually is the case that a father sells his son in the form of dowry. I do understand there is a bride price but it is less common in Western practice.
I tried to include a link, but it's gonna hang out in moderatorland for all time. Run a search on "ancient israelite marriage customs."
Notice I said Western. I understand what you are saying, yet to this day the bride's family is responsible for the cost of the wedding (in America at least). Kind of strange I think.
RIght, but I was referring to Christianity.
Modern Christian culture is a strange hodgepodge of European tradition and ancient Hebrew religion.
The wedding customs may be Euro, but the weird morality is Old Testament.
Unless we're asserting that my religious upbringing was a result of my Teutonic roots... which would have been infinitely more awesome.
Just for the sake of accuracy...he has to offer himself for marriage, but not necessarily be accepted. And it's not entirely clear whether she has say in the matter or not.
I found this rather interesting, comments as well. The doc painted an objective light I thought. However, for the most part the focus is entirely on girls. We hear both about fathers who have decided that their path through life isn't what they want for their kids, and also about a former member of this "movement" who had been more or less cast out for breaking her vow. Its very sad how her "parents" cast her away, that is not christian behavior AT ALL. Note how she was driven further away from her former life by the mom's behavior.
NOW FOR THE HATERS:
Christians understand the incredible power of strong immediate family units. Beneficial to both individuals and humanity, as the individuals ideally grow up well-supported and well prepared to make good decisions. NOTE: i think all kids should understand sex and contraceptive use by the time hormones really kick in. because we all have no reason to reject science or reality simply for fear of tainting ourselves/ kids.
These fathers are doing their best to ensure that their daughters meet somebody that they can start their own, strong, healthy family with. Nothing creepy either, theres nothing sexual about any of this ball business! lol....but seriously the focus is also on integrity of the fathers involved.
Im a young male and i remain pure for my future wife, because it will strengthen our bond and family. If im never blessed so much, i don't see how im worse for the wear! its not like i met someone worth giving myself to physically in that case.
Lets hear it for those lovely gals that understand the value of purity and modesty. The right guys will be attracted to that commitment.
Firstly, I am not and never will be a Christian, yet, somehow, I am fully aware of the value of a strong family unit, as my family is such without being dominated by religious garbage.
What is the 'value of purity and modesty'? What do you even mean by the term purity anyway? I'd love for somebody to give it any kind of context outside of the Christian 'denial of pleasure = purity'
The 'right guys' who would be attracted by that commitment are usually the same kind of creepy controlling males as these girl's fathers.. 'how cool would it be to have kissed only one man, how cool' - that father was weird and very out of touch with the nature of 'cool'^
Also, not knowing what you like sexually and in your relationships is a recipe for divorce not a fairytale.
If you're a young male and saving yourself, do you still jerk off? Do you watch porn or just fap over Genesis? Anyway, you need to fool around with different women to gather the experience to perform well for the hot/nice one you want to have a longer relationship with... 'Saving yourself' comes into its own when you're fumbling around not knowing where her clit is and cumming in 30seconds. Nice^
Nobody wants to be f--k a woman like these girls, they're probably strictly missionary - no oral - awkward handjob types... boring/bland sex is the true blasphemy in God's eyes, when will you people learn!
If I could choose between all the hours I've spent having sex/watching porn and reading the bible/ praying, I know which one I'd pick - and I pray to God that I burn in hell :D
I don't have a problem with young men and women choosing to wait till they're married to have sex, but what I do have a problem with is the feeling of guilt and abandonment that they put on their daughters if they don't live up to their expectations. These parents should be a little more realistic, encourage waiting until you meet the right person, but also teaching them about how to stay safe. Tell them that you'll still love them no matter what they decide to do and stop being so controlling. Also, it's nice to tell your daughters that they're beautiful, but it's also important for those young girls to realize for themselves who they are and that they are beautiful.
I agree 100%.
also someone further down mentioned it's like dating your dad. which got me thinking about how nuns marry jesus and little girls marry god during first communion. so its like the dad gets to play this god figure in a girl's life. this he encourages to cover up the fact that he's a control freak with incest issues.
these men are conditioning their daughters to respond to cues set up by generations of men. these cues are called "romance." the aim of the conditioning is to mold their daughters into babymaking machines that will manufacture children who in turn will be controlled by the new father. DISGUSTING, APPALLING, INCESTUOUS.
I feel a little left out... My dad abandoned me before I was born and my grandfather died when I was six months, so I've never had a male figure in my life. I was raised by my mother and grandmother (neither of whom are religious), and they encouraged a healthy, fulfilling life with everything that this world could offer. I'm now 24, have had a steady boyfriend for three years, and am working towards my medical license. That boyfriend is the only guy I've ever been with (I can't honestly say "kissed" because I enjoyed dating in high school that never made it to second base), and Charlie and I have what I like to think is a great sex life.
How am I spiritually impure, when I believe in and love God, have had a single partner in my life for years, and was never very promiscuous in high school, next to somebody who was a ballerina around the cross?
Please, someone, tell me that.
At fourteen I used to sneak behind the school and make out with my boyfriend. At nineteen I gave that same boyfriend my virginity. We're still together today. Maybe we'll get married, maybe not. I'm also pro-choice and a proud bisexual American. If you are damned, then I am infinitely worse off. But I am still a Catholic, and I walk into church with my head held high. I believe that I am a good person. You have absolutely no reason to think anything different about yourself.
I was with you until you said you were Catholic ^^
I'm glad you're not ashamed of yourself. I do think it's sad that you participate in a religion that openly scorns you, but you are the one who is right and the religion is what is wrong. You're right to follow it though. I support your comment either way.
You're not "impure," and not just because you're a Christian and have had only one sex partner.
The entire concept of purity is false. There's no perfect essence of us that needs to be protected from the outside world. There's nothing wrong with having a sex life. There's nothing wrong with being an atheist.
Neither of those things, in and of themselves, is wrong or "impure" in any way.
These people act like some crazy cult... I mean, I love my dad and all - but how could that father-daughter relationship ever replace a normal healty sex life? That's not ok.
Religious people in general make me sick and are very primitive in the way they think. By saying this i mean they believe in an entity that is clearly not visible. So this is where faith comes into it, look up faith in the dictionary.
There are three meanings, belief in a higher being, belief in a friend and to believe something that isnt there. Now I dont believe in the lat mentioned because im not an i****!
The fathers in this documentary are just sheltering their daughters. It felt quite pedophillic to me. Especially the way the dad was touching his daughters neck near the start of the documentary..........i touch my girlfriend like that
So weird, this feels paedophillic! The way the dad was touching his daughter near the start on the neck..............thats how I touch my girlfriend.
i can see that what they are doing is wrong on some levels, your parents shouldnt over protect you because when you go out in the real world it is going to be a shock to the system and plus it totally is like dating your dad and that is wrong on so many levels.But if were honest there is worst kinds of parents in the world people who beat their kids drug them and leave them to their own devices, so telling your kids to not have sex until marraige doesnt seem like such a bad thing compared to the rest of the parents who dont even care what they do.
wow..i wonder what the reporter thought of that herself!
At the beginning i was outraged by this and completely agreed with all the 'against' comments,but by the end i was really touched.Looking back at own life, with complete freedom in my choices and no pressure(and an array of colourful experiences) , i can totally see where these people are coming from. Ultimately, this can be a really good thing, or a really bad thing, depending on the individuals and their context. Just the same as with having complete freedom..(im 26 female btw)
Its a shame for mankind having people like this.
Indocrination, terror, brainwashing, manipulation.
Who protect young people? No one. Nobody care.
They are proprety of parents and they can do everything they want.
Shame Shame Shame!
I think this is the top knowledge people have got to have pure, healthy and happy life
I am 21 years old and when i became a christian almost 3 years ago i made the decision that i would save my kiss for my wedding day, and believe in all the same values that was displayed in this film. Before i was a christian i was involved in physical relationships and unfortunately at a young age i lost my virginity. But the Bible says that I am a new creation in Christ and although i will never physically become a virgin again, i do feel like God has restored my purity. I think it is such an amazing this to save myself for marriage and i wouldnt have it any other way, i know it is very pleasing to God as well!
And its not only women who chose to save themselves, i know many young men that also made the decision.
And from personal experience the married couples in my church who chose to get to know the persons heart and leave the pysical for marriage have veryy good, loving and healthy marriage-not only because they saved themselves but also because they have kept God at the center!
trust me! from a young girl who has been on both sides it is much more fulfilling to wait and save yourself!!!
Beyond f*****g creepy. Poor girls. I am soo glad that i moved out my my mother's house at 18. She was as vagina obsessed as these fathers were. Living on a college campus should be MANDATORY for young women who grow up like this. Dating is fantastic and most men prefer if you bring some sexual experience to the table. These women will be in for a rude awaking when they found out that Prince Charming doesn't exist. Neither does Jesus. I'm sure that Freud would give this the side eye. Too much of a creepy psedo-sexual undertone to this
Being a guy involved in this movement growing up, I am so familiar with all of the things mentioned in this film. One of the downsides of creating a culture around what should be a private personal choice is that it raises your expectations to such a high level that reality can never match.
One thing I've noticed is that there's a dearth of suitable bachelors involved in the movement, the main reason being the dominating fathers. It's almost impossible to be an honest guy and win over the girls father at the same time because they will go through your life with a fine comb and any anomaly they find will be subject to extreme scrutiny.
Consequently the guys either have to lie about what they believe and who they are, or they have to be a completely subservient peon who has no personality or will in order to win the approval of the ever present godlike figure of the father. Add to that the pressure of having to know exactly how to kiss without ever kissing (at least as far as the father and girl know), not to mention sex!
The bottom line is that the purity movement leaves a lot to be desired as a way of life and as a philosophy. Not having sex has its benefits, but
It all just sounds so scripted, so fake; like the children have been told over and over what they SHOULD think based on what their family believes their own interpretation of the Bible and religion is. The daughters seemed to regurgitate back a contrived response for their reason to choose purity.
It is seriously depressing to see how controlling these people can be.
It breaks my heart to hear of Jessica's story and to have her parents tell her she is "incapable of making her own decisions" as an educated, talented and confident woman. She seems better off without her parent's guidance if you ask me. Her family might see her as a wayward woman for her sexual decisions, but honestly, without sexual education how could they honestly say they had prepared her for womanhood? While to them one slip-up makes her mentally unstable and guilt-ridden, to me she seems to be a healthy and strong woman, and should be treated by her parents as such regardless of her past.
Suffering is part of life and overprotecting your kid will bring further pain...
what makes them believe that saving yourself for prince charming will save them from suffering... prince charming might place them directly in the kitchen to cook and raise kids and as far as seen, there is no real guarantee in this world for happiness... So sure, date your dad, miss a lot of your teenage years and end up married. end of life.
oh, isnt this just sick?:) dating your dad?! oh, let's just make these girls believe that daddy is safe, the real world is not... i wonder how this will change their view of the normal world and their normal development...
ok, this is a weird perception of a woman's worth :)
let's just see how many of these girls wait for prince charming to get laid and than move them to the kitchen to cook and raise kids. sounds like a fairy tale...
More... it's interesting to see how this weird emotional relationship with their dad will impact their development... i mean... dating your dad?!?!?!:))
This is a very weird perception of women and virginity...
I also think this extreme perception of normality is kind of blown if you think that these girls have dates with their dads?!?!?! hello?!?!:)) this abnormal emotional and formal relationship...well, let's see how that works for their future development...
hahahhahhahha..... let me just say, thank you so much to all of you who posted on this video. especially those of you who posted recently. This video was spot on and those of you who think otherwise might consider migrating to another country. We don't want you here. You are polutting our society. GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!
God is amazing. HE is powerful and all knowing and someday you along with everyone else on here will have to answer to him. He will rip you apart piece by piece exposing all your sins. Remember that.
And as for sex before marriage. IT IS WRONG. Guys get over it. You know all of you who commented on here about the video being off base, ha guess what you are all guys! So get your hands out of your pants and learn to have some respect for women. Thank God our parents are warning us not to have sex before marriage or we might get stuck with someone like you.
I am proud to say I am a virgin, I have never kissed a guy, and to this day I am thankful that I haven't.
Oh, and just because the one example on this video they have of a girl who broke her purity pledge and her parents stopped being involved in her life doesn't mean it's always that way! Her parents are r*tarded. They are supposed to love her no matter what. Heck due to some of your alls responses i'm sure you can relate to having bad parents.
So really if all you can say about this video takes you two seconds to write, involves a cuss word, or is some snide comment about the video making you want to vomit, just stop, turn off your computer and go do something constructive with your time. Or move to a different country, which i am definately more partial to. : )
your are a b*tch and you are the one polluting society. I'm a woman, I have had sex, and been kissed, and I'm proud to say it. Also, what kind of f*cked up religion would have a god who would rip people apart people for living their life how they wish, and being happy? Your god is a jack*ss. But, your r*tarded, so you will probably go pray at your church for your "loving" god to make sure I burn in H*ell. You are the reason that innocent children cry, and I hope that, if there is a god, you be the one that burns. By the way, as a fun little fact, 50% of women who get purity rings lose their virginity within a year. Bye!
"This video was spot on and those of you who think otherwise might consider migrating to another country. We don't want you here. You are polutting our society. GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!"
Do you have any idea how patronizing, insulting, condescending, arrogant, smug, self-righteous, hateful, bigoted, etc., etc., etc. this statement is? Contrary to your opinions, people who live in your country and disagree with your religious practices are every bit as much citizens as you and every bit as entitled to their freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and voice in the political arena.
"God is amazing. HE is powerful and all knowing and someday you along with everyone else on here will have to answer to him. He will rip you apart piece by piece exposing all your sins. Remember that."
It must feel nice knowing that there's a big strong invisible guy in the sky who is going to torment everyone who dares to contradict you on the internet.
"And as for sex before marriage. IT IS WRONG. Guys get over it."
No. You have absolutely no factual evidence to back up that assertion.
"You know all of you who commented on here about the video being off base, ha guess what you are all guys!"
This is absolutely untrue. I am male, but that has nothing to do with it. There are a number of women on here expressing how they don't want their sexuality to be controlled by men (dads are men, too), and also there are women on this site who were raised in this purity movement who have expressed the problems that upbringing has caused them. It might feel good for you to think the only people who disagree about sex before marriage are men who are trying to manipulate women into having sex with them, but it is easily refuted.
"So get your hands out of your pants and learn to have some respect for women."
I have some respect for women, that's why I want them to be able to make their own choices rather than doing what their daddies tell them to do. You have some respect for me and stop talking to me like I'm a date-rapist.
"Thank God our parents are warning us not to have sex before marriage or we might get stuck with someone like you."
But you hardly even know me!
"I am proud to say I am a virgin, I have never kissed a guy, and to this day I am thankful that I haven't."
You can easily say that you're thankful you haven't done those things, because you don't actually know what you're talking about not having done.
"Oh, and just because the one example on this video they have of a girl who broke her purity pledge and her parents stopped being involved in her life doesn't mean it's always that way!"
No, but it's that way much too often, and it shouldn't happen at all.
"Her parents are r*tarded. They are supposed to love her no matter what."
Exactly the point.
"Heck due to some of your alls responses i'm sure you can relate to having bad parents."
You're just trying to insult everyone who disagrees with you. That's not a valid argument. My parents were great. I disagree with them about some stuff, but it's okay for adults to do that and still get
"So really if all you can say about this video takes you two seconds to write, involves a cuss word, or is some snide comment about the video making you want to vomit, just stop, turn off your computer and go do something constructive with your time."
You're the one who is condemning eveyrone with the wrath of your god, insulting men, implying that only men hold the view that sex before marriage is okay, and telling everyone who disagrees with you that they're polluting "your" country.
"Or move to a different country, which i am definately more partial to. : ) "
See, there you did it again. You're actually the one who is being insulting, but you're too certain that your religious upringing is correct to see that you are being self-righteous. I KNOW, I USED TO BE THAT WAY.
It's a bit silly to assume that everyone on the internet lives in your country anyway...
Going "pure" into marriage often ends in big disappointment. I mean I respect these people but, then again to it seems like parents especially fathers can't accept their kids have to have their own experiences in order to grow as a person, or in this case as a woman. They simply rob the opportunity to evolve.
I hope they realize the edipic thing of the purity movement... sorry but i can´t help but laugh at your so called ideas, seriously they are telling 5 year old, 11 year old etc. what they should do and what to think, they are killing their individuality that´s what they´re doing. I have no problem if someone decides to stay a virgin until marriage but as long as its their choice and they´ve lived something not just psico bullshit that their daddy, mommy, church, pastor or whoever is telling them, pleaseeeee go out, get exposed and let´s see if you think the same. If you do then go ahead, don´t kiss, hod hands or have sex, but until then, i think you have no true arguments to "discuss" being a virgin or not.
Well you see, this video is all about the girls not going out and experiencing it for themselves only to be disappointed by an event that their parents could have save them from having to experience. They are not trying to shove it down their throats, but simply trying to warn them. Individuality steams from personality traits and characteristics not ones sexual life. It's hard to understand when you don't have respect for your mommy and daddy or a religious figure and as displayed clearly by your post you lack respect and maturity.
"Well you see, this video is all about the girls not going out and experiencing it for themselves only to be disappointed by an event that their parents could have save them from having to experience."
It's a dubious assumption on the part of the parents that kissing someone before marriage would disappoint them, or that it helps a person's development to be protected from having experiences.
"They are not trying to shove it down their throats, but simply trying to warn them."
Making them take oathes crosses the line from warning them into shoving it down their throats.
"Individuality steams from personality traits and characteristics not ones sexual life."
...But if one is not free to make sexual decisions for oneself, one is not truly acting as an autonomous individual.
"It's hard to understand when you don't have respect for your mommy and daddy or a religious figure and as displayed clearly by your post you lack respect and maturity."
I know you weren't directing this at me, but it indirectly dismisses me so I'll reply anyway.
I have great respect for my parents, despite the fact that they are religious and I am atheistic. It makes no difference. They were great loving parents and have always been good to me. I appreciate them for that, value their opinions, and love them dearly. There is a difference, though, between respecting my parents and only making decisions they would want me to make. At some point you have to start being your own person.
I do not have any respect for any "religious figure." I have no respect whatsoever for someone who claims an ancient scroll or some unproven revelation has given them the authority to dictate to me what is right and wrong for me, and to kindly put a tenth of my income in their little platter. You're right on that one.
Your body is your own, sex is natural, and there's really no argument against these ideas that comes from logic or evidence. Just some dusty ol' scrolls...
I hope they realize the edipic thing of the purity movement... sorry but i can´t help but laugh at your so called ideas, seriously they are telling 5 year old, 11 year old etc. what they should do and what to think, they are killing their individuality that´s what they´re doing. I have no problem if someone decides to stay a virgin until marriage but as long as its their choice and they´ve lived something not just psico bullshit that their daddy, mommy, church, pastor or whoever is telling them, pleaseeeee go out, get exposed and let´s see if you think the same. If you do then go ahead, don´t kiss, hod hands or have sex, but until then, i think you have no true arguments to "discuss" being a virgin or not.
Like on commenter said, it's great if you can have no regrets, get into a satisfying relationship and marry a nice young man. Unfortunately, the purity movement doesn't offer much hope if your daughter-- who is her own person-- decides that's not what she wants. All these men are assuming that with enough attention and reassurance of "beauty" from fathers daughters will never seek other men (and they don't see why people think there's tones of incest?), but what if your daughter wants to follow another path? What if your child doesn't fit that mold? If you happen to have another sexuality you are especially at risk. If you aren't the perfect a-sexual daughter, if you don't find that special guy, if you don't even WANT a special guy, then what happens? The one girl who had sex without being married was clearly upset that her family had splintered. And guess what? Her family doesn't have the benefit of forming a connection with the man she loves and seeing her for all her beauty because the whole issue of purity obscures everything. It's really sad.
@Anya D Night
"The one girl who had sex without being married was clearly upset that her family had splintered. And guess what? Her family doesn't have the benefit of forming a connection with the man she loves and seeing her for all her beauty because the whole issue of purity obscures everything. It's really sad. "
The family are unable to see that her personal sexual decisions have not harmed anyone, but their own refusal to accept their daughter has torn the family apart.
Geting marryed without having sex before is just nuts and the result of it is exactly the opposite that they say they want to achieve.
watching documentaries like this makes me glad I was raised a heathen! the mistakes you make in relationships help you know when you've found 'the one'. I find this father/daughter thing inherently sexist as well, where are the sons? probably out having sex like normal teenagers.
drug abuse and responsible sex are the same?! more logic fail from Christians. Straw men arguments. I can't wait to hear how horrific the sexual and abusive connection once they find someone just like daddy - a controlling religious freak.
This puts all "beauty" on the carnal and the sexual. Christians are obsessed with sex far more than anyone that engages sexuality in a healthy and balanced way. "higher standard" here means Freudian Daddy Sex Weirdness. I literally wanted to vomit with each interview.
Wow, alright. I am 19 years old. I was raised exactly this way. My parents were always there and ready for me to confide in about my problems or issues I was having. To this day I am incredibly thankful that they raised me the way they did. I haven't made any monumental mistakes because of crazed hormones or from being "in the moment". I never felt like they were shoving it down my throat. Listen to the video. The parents made terrible decisions they are only trying to help. They don't want their children to make the same ST*PID decisions and live a life time with the same guilt and baggage. It's NOT weird for a dad to tell his daughter that she's beautiful or to dance with her. It is completely true that those girls out there who lack a father-daughter relationship go searching for a guy who will some how fill that void. Unfortunately, there aren't many men out there who have respect for women and don't pressure them into sexual acts. I will admit it is sad that the one girl on there who went against her purity pledge had a falling out with her parents, but that's her parents fault. The parent role is supposed to mirror the role of Jesus. All forgiving. Their punishment for their acts should come from within. Guilt! They should be unhappy with themselves that they went against what God tells them not to do. It amazes me that you have the audacity to get on here and disrespect Christianity as a whole. Just because your a christian doesn't mean you are a controlling freak. You know you make alot of crude comments with little opinion or evidence to back them up. Frankly it is people like you and many of the other people, which happen to be men, on here that make our society and country such a disgrace. You have nothing to say but negative comments and sound like a pig with your rude comments and lack of respect. Don't worry Jeffery Lee Robinson despite your ill behavior and your inmaturatey, I , as one of those christians you so highly speak of, will be praying for you that you see how important this really is and realize that God is higher power that we must answer to one day and that you Jeffrey will answer to him for these very posts. ---------God Bless : )
"Wow, alright. I am 19 years old. I was raised exactly this way."
Okay, this sheds a little light on things. I am 27, and I though (kind of) like this at about your age. I didn't lose my virginity until I was 19, and it is this that I regret. Not that I lost it, but that it didn't happen sooner. It was 100% my choice. I could have done it sooner, but Christianity stopped me.
"My parents were always there and ready for me to confide in about my problems or issues I was having."
Mine were too, and I love them for it.
"To this day I am incredibly thankful that they raised me the way they did."
I am in some ways grateful because they raised me to read books and to be myself. I don't necessarily think that the religious aspect of my upbringing was beneficial though.
"I haven't made any monumental mistakes because of crazed hormones or from being 'in the moment'."
Neither have I, despite the fact that I have been to some degree sexually active for twelve years and have been having actual sex for over eight. If you actually educate yourself and use your brain, you don't have to make any monumental mistakes like unplanned pregnancy or STDs. If you use protection, the most monumental negative repercussion you'll likely have to deal with will be A) feeling bad after a break-up, which happens to everyone who dates whether they're sexually active or not, or B) someone you used to sleep with calling you after you wish they would stop.
"I never felt like they were shoving it down my throat."
Your brain is developing rapidly during early childhood. You accept what your parents and other authority figures tell you to a very large degree during this period. A five year old doesn't stop to question whether they've been indoctrinated with a religion that their parents only believe in because their own parents told them to. The five year old just sings "Yes Jesus Loves Me." Ideas that are driven into you before a certain point in your brain's development (around age 8) are very hard to get rid of. You've never felt like these ideas were shoved down your throat because you've grown up in an environment where those ideas are the norm, and you've taken that for granted.
"Listen to the video. The parents made terrible decisions they are only trying to help. They don't want their children to make the same ST*PID decisions and live a life time with the same guilt and baggage."
That may be so, but the manner in which they're "only trying to help" is unneccessarily hard on the children and is actually quite unlikely to be effective in preventing regret, guilt, baggage, and disappointment. Those things happen in life, no matter how hard you try to protect someone. It is better to be prepared and to know how to deal with it than to pretend it isn't going to happen.
"It's NOT weird for a dad to tell his daughter that she's beautiful or to dance with her."
Not in every context. It IS weird the degree to which these particular fathers are emphasizing beauty and purity as virtues to their daughters. It IS weird that these fathers are preventing their daughters from having relationships with boys by trying to insert themselves into the roles that those other boys would fill. By the time the daughters are teenagers, those are NO LONGER THE SAME ROLE.
"It is completely true that those girls out there who lack a father-daughter relationship go searching for a guy who will some how fill that void."
"Unfortunately, there aren't many men out there who have respect for women and don't pressure them into sexual acts."
Aren't there? You seriously think there aren't many men who won't pressure a woman into a sexual act she does not want to participate in? I'm not saying there aren't plenty of guys who WILL do that or try, but nice guys aren't that rare. You're also assuming that these girls don't want sex. Girls like sex, too. Did you know that?
"I will admit it is sad that the one girl on there who went against her purity pledge had a falling out with her parents, but that's her parents fault."
You're right. It IS her parents' fault. That's what everyone is saying. Unreasonable expectations are being set up for these girls by parents who have spent their lives trying to prevent their daughters' sexuality from manifesting itself in ways that the parents aren't comfortable with, and when the daughters eventually make their own decisions to the contrary these parents will not be prepared for it. They will have spent two decades in denial about their daughter's sexuality, and it will rip the floor out from under them.
"The parent role is supposed to mirror the role of Jesus."
No. It's not. Parents are supposed to prepare children to fend for themselves. Jesus is some dead guy who may or may not have existed in the Middle East centuries ago.
"All forgiving. Their punishment for their acts should come from within. Guilt!"
NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! Why should someone feel guilty for making up their own mind to have consentual sex with another adult? It's completely natural and normal. The idea that you should feel guilty about it is one of the worst aspects of religion. Keep people feeling guilty for things they are biologically incapable of controlling, and they'll keep coming back for forgiveness.
"They should be unhappy with themselves that they went against what God tells them not to do."
"It amazes me that you have the audacity to get on here and disrespect Christianity as a whole."
Christianity as a whole is a completely unproven set of assertions about how the universe works, and it stands in direct contradition to all known factual information. It's an ancient cult that the Romans decided to force on the European pagans. Most of us are Christians right now because our ancestors were forced to be at the end of a spear or gun. That being said, most CHRISTIANS are good folks.
"Just because your a christian doesn't mean you are a controlling freak."
No, but the people in this documentary are. As are many others.
"You know you make alot of crude comments with little opinion or evidence to back them up."
There are plenty of documentaries on this site full of evidence that contradicts the religious ideas of how the universe works, also undermining moral dogmas that are derived from these erroneous superstitions.
"Frankly it is people like you and many of the other people, which happen to be men, on here that make our society and country such a disgrace. You have nothing to say but negative comments and sound like a pig with your rude comments and lack of respect."
It's not disrespectful to disagree with someone's religious dogma, especially when the objection is that it's being unfairly forced on someone else.
"Don't worry Jeffery Lee Robinson despite your ill behavior and your inmaturatey, I , as one of those christians you so highly speak of, will be praying for you that you see how important this really is and realize that God is higher power that we must answer to one day and that you Jeffrey will answer to him for these very posts. ---------God Bless : ) "
This isn't directed at me, but it strikes me that you don't realize how snobby and condescending and insulting it is to imply that someone needs you to pray for them. There is also no evidence whatsoever that there are any supernatural entities in the universe, and this includes gods. Given that there is no evidence of a deity, there can be no evidence that we must "answer to it," whatever that means. It is quite insulting however to speak on behalf of that supposed deity to say that your "God" is going to judge another poster on this site because they made a comment you don't like. If there was a "God," it would not exist to do your bidding and avenge you against those who offend your sensibilities via the internet.
amen ! sarcasm ofcourse concidering amen translates as 'i concur' or perhaps a more accurate zeig heil.
This is disturbingly perverted on the level of psychological incest. Gross.
Possibly the worst thing you can do for your child's future is to tell them that you know best, that you have all the answers and that they should trust you to make all the decisions for them until some unspecified time.
This develops none of their critical thinking skills, which can also be looked at as a God given gift, those skills which guide us through life and enable us to make decisions for ourselves.
The movement creates a fallacy -- if you trust your father, you will not be hurt in the future, you will not have your heart broken, you will not be disappointed. It is impossible for one person to be that omnipotent.
Another aspect of this that bothers me a lot is that the fathers are expected to set themselves up as the source of worth for their daughters -- something that continues the patriarchy and inequality between men and women. Girls need to find worth in themselves through their actions and choices, not have it bestowed on them from a parent. If they don't learn to find their own worth they will continuously be looking for validation from other men in their lives like husbands and they will be less sure of themselves.
I understand that some women will think that validation should come from fathers and husbands because they understand that to be divine will.
However, God gave all believers free will and the potential to become their best -- giving up your free will to a husband or a father is a cop out.
Think for yourself, build your own worth, let your life be a masterpiece of compassion, good deeds and wise action.
You say that the parents in this film are close minded because they believe a certain way. But it is in fact you who are close minded because you cannot accept an alternative form of viewing sex. I am a 20 year old woman, engaged to be married to a man of my choosing. I was not raised purity, patriarchal or even any form of fundamentalist christian. But I want all my children to be virgins on their wedding nights and share their kiss only with their spouse because of pain and regret my fiance and I have faced at having been intimate with others before we met. I find it naive and shortcoming to assume that this desire is wrong in any way shape or form. I want my husband to be a leader, a patriarch of righteousness in our household. There is nothing at all wrong with the concept of purity. Yes some parents go about it incorrectly and place an impossible burden and guilt on their children. But there are others who do it properly and create immense feelings of self worth, morality and happiness in their sons and daughters. But it is even more sad when others feel that their liberal views are so much more right and worthy than these Christians. It is all opinion. No proof either way.
@Chelsey Marie Bethel
"You say that the parents in this film are close minded because they believe a certain way. But it is in fact you who are close minded because you cannot accept an alternative form of viewing sex."
I think many of us have said these people are closed-minded not because they believe a certain way, but because their children are forced to act on the parents beliefs without being objectively educated and allowed to make these crucial decisions for themselves.
"I am a 20 year old woman, engaged to be married to a man of my choosing. I was not raised purity, patriarchal or even any form of fundamentalist christian."
And that's A-OK.
"But I want all my children to be virgins on their wedding nights and share their kiss only with their spouse because of pain and regret my fiance and I have faced at having been intimate with others before we met."
Too bad. You're children's bodies will belong to them, not to you. They may not have the same experiences, attitudes, and regrets that you do. Most people who kiss before marriage do not regret it, and it is not your place to project your own highly atypical experiences onto your children and hold them up to standards you yourself were never pressured to live up to.
"I find it naive and shortcoming to assume that this desire is wrong in any way shape or form."
The desire is wrong only because you want to make that decision for your children, not because you have made it for yourself.
"I want my husband to be a leader, a patriarch of righteousness in our household."
What if one of your chidren has his/her own opinion about what is righteous?
"There is nothing at all wrong with the concept of purity."
The concept of purity itself is meaningless. There is no way to demonstrate or prove that there is a such quality are human purity, nor that it is in any way tied to a person's sexual activity.
"Yes some parents go about it incorrectly and place an impossible burden and guilt on their children. But there are others who do it properly and create immense feelings of self worth, morality and happiness in their sons and daughters."
It's great to give your children self worth, morality, and happiness. It's not okay to tell them that it's wrong to make decisions for themselves.
"But it is even more sad when others feel that their liberal views are so much more right and worthy than these Christians. It is all opinion. No proof either way. "
Actually, there's no proof in the existence of gods or other supernatural entities so there's no proof of inherent value in the teachings contained in any of the various ancient books attributed to them. While it may be highly irrational to believe in the unfounded superstitions of ancient desert-dwelling barbarians, it is every person's right to do so and to speak about it if they please. It is also equally okay for others to point out to them that it is grossly irresponsible to force children (whose brains are not yet fully developed) to adhere to the ancient moral codes of these barbaric tribes, especially when some have been demonstrated again and again (with actual evidence) to cause irreparable harm to the children that will last into adulthood.
The Christian view of sex you are defending is based solely on the text of dusty old scrolls written by people who practiced public execution, sacrificed animals, held slaves, and had never heard of sanitation.
The so-called "liberal" view of sex you are arguing against is based on all available scientific evidence.
It's okay for anyone to decide for themselves to abstain from sex.
It's not okay to miseducate and indoctrinate children so you can control their sexuality once they're adults.
of course this would only be the work of that evil bitch called god.
COME ON people. you cannot be serious if you look at this and not see the suppression and control of these people. Shaming women using guilt as their engine and heartless disowning those who disobey. They teach no tolerance of others diverse lifestyles which might include homosexuals bisexuals, polygamists and so on. The bigotry here is unprecedented.
You can't suppress a person's natural desire to have sex. It's been the driving force for the survival of our species since the dawn of man. Now I'm not saying go out and knock up every girl within a 10 mile radius, but Sex is a useful and relieving action that doesnt have to covered in guilt and shame.
Sex is natural. Its human instinct, back when we were cave men we had to reproduce on an unprecedented scale because that was the only way we could ensure the survival of our species. Now we do not need to reproduce as avidly because of a lifestyle change to a much safer and casual lifestyle but the need for sex has not changed, and probably never will.
The documentary fails to address those who lived through the purity movement, remained pure, and yet never succeeded in finding a mate. Those of us who are virgins into our thirties but flunked out of the marriage ranks.
When you wake up a 32 year-old unmarried virgin, do you keep waiting on the unlikely hope that the Prince Charming who failed to materialize in the last decade will show up before you hit menopause? Do you cut your loses and give in while you still can, turning all that you've sacrificed into a waste of effort? Or do you chance the very real possibility you'll wind up in the outnumbered ranks as one of the countless women who will enter menopause as virgins?
Unfortunately, Purity Pledges have no time-back guarantees if they fail to produce the joy and rapture and "no regrets" they promised you.
Indoctrination. Pure and simple.
they should prey that their husbands aren't impotent! and that the sex will be good.
how the hell can you marry someone without being sure of the sexual chemistry?
What's so sad is how little these kids even understand about religion. They have obviously been fed with information that they believe to be true because that's what their parents have fed them their whole life. They never even had a chance to think for themselves, and aren't even old enough to fully understand life. These kids aren't coming to these decisions by themselves.
pretty sure there are more serious issues than this that we should be arguing and fighting about....so what if those parents are doing that...is it affecting you directly?? Have a look at some other stuff on this site and you will see things are just so disgusting and heartbreaking and those are the issues we should be focusing on...just sayin....
This documentary shows us that the remains of religious fundamentalism hasn't dissapeared. Women are still treated as insecure, vulnerable and dependent creatures of God. Men are still viewed as strong, protective and illuminated representatives of God. From a scientific psychological point of view the whole scenario looks very different : these men are patriarchal, dominant, obsessive, while women are brainwashed victims with almost zero chances of escape. Women learn in a slow but secure process that they must be ,,pretty" and must not take any decisions because outside their fathers, there is a lot of ,,pain, suffering, heartbreaking". In a delusional way the father is the center of learning how to feel, when to feel, what to feel. Again, from a psychological point of view these types of daughter-father relationships are questionable, almost dangerous and mostly unhealthy. While this family tradition has it's grounds in somewhat ,,good" ethics, we clearly see that these ethics, in this case, resume to the strong need for power. The insertion of illusions in these young girls minds, is wrong and most probably with strong consequences. In reality, their arguments for taking ,,purity" to this extreme, are not sustainable. They invoke promiscuity, sexual disease and emotional suffering, as in reality marriage will protect us from these social facts. As a result, they create a different reality, where abusive relationships are strongly camuflated. Somehow, in order to achieve rationality, we must take a look inside these people's lives, and learn to make a step outside these dangerous pathways.
Sincerely, a woman.
I was thinking of this documentary (again) on the way to church this morning. My little girl came down stairs and had the "Don't I look pretty" thing going on. I wasn't all on the uptake so she asked outrightly, and also said, "Look at my pretty dress!" I told her, "Yes! You are soooooo pretty!"
My son get's upset when boys in the neighborhood say cruel things like "You're a bad boy", but I told him: "Son, it doesn't matter what they say or think but it matters what your father says and thinks, and you're a very good boy."
I admired the father in this documentary that "blessed" his children once a week and affirmed his love for them and spoke God's blessings over each one. I think I'm going to start that with my own family, including my wife and son as well as my daughter. The Bible says that "life and death" are in the power of the tongue. Time to put into practice what I know to be truth.
Thanks Vlatko for such an inspiring documentary! I really really really liked it. It was very inspirational for me!
True liberty, freedom and dignity, for any man or woman, is knowing that you, and ONLY you, are in control of your sexual decisions and opinions. The purity movement teaches the opposite. It teaches the children to fear and ignore a vital aspect of their own humanity. These girls’ future levels of sexual and marital satisfaction remains in the hands of men who place themselves at the center of their families and organized religion because of their own fears and egos.
I was swept into the purity movement as an earnest, religious child and teenager. After a years of “spiritual” (i.e. psychological) turmoil, I gradually weaned myself from mainstream Christianity and its rituals surrounding gender and sexuality. I do not think that religion is necessarily the poison it’s made out to be, but it is sorely abused by egotistic, uninformed individuals as we see in this film.
The psychology of experiencing fundamentalist Christianity as a woman was emotionally and intellectually taxing. The values were irreconcilable with what I learned about the world as an inquisitive young adult. Having now reformed my education and reclaimed my sexuality, I can empathize with the feeling of "being six years behind." I really hope that documentaries like this one help young women in the church understand their experiences more objectively and encourage them to think for themselves about their sexuality...sexuality is a core aspect of human identity and life satisfaction.
I kissed only one man i slept with only one man and i am married to that man and he is my life and i am his life too , people dnt kiss and sleep with others because they are bad ! or sluts they just havnt found love and only few who does find the love they want to spend all their lives with , it isnt about purity anything its about love
The relationship between the fathers and daughters in this program are dangerously close to having an incestuous relationship...
The daughter of the organisers of this thing must be the most boring 20 year old in the world.
When the guy said 'You ask a 6 or 7 year old who she wants to marry when she grows up and she answers "My Daddy" I puked in my own mouth.
Hey kotchpatts, I understand how you perceived incestuous tones from the film, but, I just have to say that I have several neices and nephews and it is actually quite normal to have very young children claim that they are going to marry their parents, or their older sibling, or the babysitter, or a cartoon...or, even, weirdly, the family pet. Kids are bizarre. At that stage, "marriage" means "I want to be best friends with them forever".
You're a bit dim witted if you don't understand they're talking about marring somone with the characteristics of her dad. I want to live my life as well as I can so my own daughter can judge any Tom, Dick, Harry that comes along by who I was as a husband and father and a follower of Christ. Dollars for doughnuts my kids grow up with more self-assurance and less heartache from poor decisions in life that 90% of society.
by the way....it has been said by psychologists and others that it is one of the most natural things that a child of that age will say. Maybe you should read and research into that before judging. the child is not going to become a teenager thinking she's gonna marry her dad...children go through developmental stages. And also, you would be surprised at how many children have said that, i've worked with children and a lot have said that to me before, flip, one little girl said she's gonna marry a character of her favourite show and he's a cat....is she really gonna marry a cat? I don't think so....it's just a stage and calling it incest....maybe have you think first that an incest relationship involves sexual activities....why then would they be advocating so strongly for purity?? maybe, just think about a few things first...
This is rediculous. Personally I dont think you can ever be truely happy with someone until you sleep with them. There is too much emontion and trust in those moments. I have had 3 longterm (sexual) relations with girls who I was in love with and many short and sweet ones. none was the right one but the times we had and the things we had been through I wouldnt change for the world. Nor would I want my daughter to have to be with only one man to protect her from possibly the same mistakes I have made. She will have every right to experience life and love the way it should be, trial and error, ups and downs.
fukin propaganda bullshit. 'how cool wud that be if i kissed one man in my life?' One man my ass!! The daughter will be technically made to get married around 19 or 20 which is too young!! because if she waits shes gana be too old and no guy is gana wana be respoinsible for her "purity" when hes like in his 30's... And what if she doesnt find anyone in her 20th that she loves??? Marry with no love!! You live one life..have fun resposibly! This fukkery makes me angry!!
What's the over/under on how many of these girls' father's are molesting them?
this inspired john mayer's hit single.
Yep, the fathers just want to ram their daughters! haha!
Where is this thing for guys? Oh whoops, oh no wait,only girls can protect their sexualities and they're sluts if they want to sleep with others. Sorry my bad.
Imagine how alienating this tradition must be for someone growing up gay in this community...
This is nambla all over again. She's my little vagina, and no dirty cock will sully her, but mine.
I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to protect their daughters, to cherish them, let them know that they deserve the best and to be the man their daughters should be with those traits. However, it is too harsh of the parents to turn their daughters away merely because she could not help but engage into sexual intercourse as that woman's mother did. I think this is wonderful idea, but I also think it is necessary to teach their children of sexual protections and of stds...because you may not know and to equip your daughters with that knowledge is providing them with protection.
I thoroughly hope every single one of those girls winds up being a slut. I'm actually firmly against promiscuity and do believe there is evidence that you're not supposed to have sex until marriage in the Bible (that is, ahem, female AND male), but the fact that these idiots most definitely have sons who they do not subject to the same pressure and brainwashing disgusts me. I doubt those men even talk to or ask their sons not to engage in premarital sex yet they are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to brainwash their daughters since age 5.
Funny thing is, if men were smart enough to tell their daughters AND their sons to stay abstinent, it'd be much more likely to stick. Because then when it came down to them being teenagers at a gathering with little supervision, neither side would be so inclined inwardly to have sex. Instead, these idiots only tell their daughters, then when their daughters meet guy after guy who has never been told to wait till marriage and each one puts pressure on her to have sex, she eventually gives in to her NATURAL inclination and does so, thinking: If its okay for him to have sex....
I bet the fathers do it probably because they are so hypocritical that they truly wish their sons had sex with as many women as possible, but hope their daughters don't even see a penis until they are 40. The Bible says being a hypocrite is the worst type of person you can be, so these 'fathers' will get what is coming to them and it'll likely manifest through their worst nightmare happening (sex for their daughter). Good for them.
The Bible says a lot of stupid things. Also, I wish none of these girls end up as "sluts", I hope they do find someone they love and if they kiss them or have sexual intercourse with them before marriage that's fine as long as they do it properly and safely.
You also mentioned that the Bible says it's "dangerous" to have sex before marriage. Why? What real reasons do you have? You have no rational reasons other than the Bible says so, not only that you used a subtle demeaning comments against same-sex couples. You want their fathers to suffer for making a bad decision and not raising their kids properly, by having them watch their daughters have sex over and over? That's sick... you should be ashamed.
Ethan, I am impressed with how well you write because you can't read for shit. Native said female and male to point out the disparity of telling one thing to your daughter and another to your son. You want some scientific reason why having sex before marriage is dangerous? Have you ever heard of STDs or unplanned pregnancy? And if anyone is sick for thinking of making a father watch his daughter have sex, it is you, as the poster said having "their worst nightmare happening (sex for their daughter).", which is quite a bit different then them actually watching. Learn to read, but when you do, you should probably still keep your mouth shut.
Oh, and I'm an athiest who had sex at a very young age, so don't bother calling me a bible-thumping conservative. Though I would be interested in seeing how poorly you respond to my message.
Alix, I did read Native's comment, but you should read over MY text before blasting out such nonsense. I may have misunderstood some of the things said, I see that now. But I mean really? You have to really use that old STD and unplanned pregnancy argument? That is pathetic. Don't have sex if you're not going to plan it out, abstinence before marriage is a far cry from actually solving the problem. It's all about sex education and not being stupid. So, yeah, I admit that I misread some of the text. But to have Native come in and say that the Bible has some "good points" about how to control someone's sex life is ludicrous. I'm disappointed that YOU don't see this as an atheist.
God, the US has alot of weirdo fundamentalists
Oh yeah we do!!!
"I don't want them to get a divorce." I don't think waiting to have your first dating and sexual experience with your future husband is going to save them from that.
"I don't want them to get a a divorce." How is waiting for your husband to have your first dating and sexual experience going to save them from that?
Seems like most of the parents had some sort of difficult past and now think that hiding their daughters from reality will save them.
Well, if you want to be sexually frustrated and unsatisfied, go ahead... I would guess the chances that the first person you decide to sleep with is the right one are about 1 in a hundred. Sorry girls... but it's like with everything else practice and experience (in this case with different partners, as un-romantic as it sounds) is the only thing that helps. Suits yourself ;-)
yeah, sex is a bad thing.
Stupid idiots! without it you would came in this world. omg. Am I only one that they all are mentaly ill?
Indeed, it is a pathetic excuse "human nature" that you gave. I'd like to see you to come up with a better excuse on why they should not stay a vegan, you wanker. Nothing against this video.
You might want to watch the vido again keeping in mind it is about virginity and nothing to do with nutrition. Her comment will make more sense then.
The man said that he doesn't want that his children commit the same mistakes he did. Have you ever thought to teach them something called ''contraception''?
Ah, he meant the sex outside of marrage in general, not just the reproduction with 7 different women, I'm sure!
Lets be honest, it is only human nature to engage in sexual activity. What people really need to be doing is not chastise these young women for their sexual thoughts and possible actions, rather we should teach these girls how to embrace their sexuality in the healthiest ways possible. Yes, abstinence is 100% effective against all disease and pregnancy, but is against all natural instincts. What needs to be known is that using ones own good judgement and having the knowledge on how to practice safe sex is the most effective and healthy way of expressing ones sexuality.
Indeed, it is a pathetic excuse "human nature" that you gave. I'd like to see you to come up with a better excuse on why they should not stay a vegan, you wanker.
A vegan? Are you a little confused? Typo? Wanker?
So az your idea of children dieing at very young ages due to aids and other sexually transferred diseases is okay or those 11 years old girls getting pregnant is not a biggy or that your parents had intercourse with many others before the accidentally got you is okay. Or you want to make fun of my mistakes
i never said i am Ok with dying children, or 11yrs old getting pregnant.
On the other hand i would be quite Ok if my parents had intercourse, overcourse and discourse before they went on to having fun making me. Lots of fun!
Hey according to them at 75 they are still pretty active sexually.
Vegans didn't have much to do with this doc, unless a vegan is a woman that won't nibble on a guy's neck and bellow.
Wanker? someone who masturbate? What does that have to do with laura's comment?
You are a little confused!
Ummm, so are you saying that engaging is sexual activity is against nature? I am confused by your incompetent and ridiculous response to my argument. Vegan? No, this is a documentary about virgins. Fully understand what you are arguing against before you put up your own foolish statements.
On the other hadn its nice to see involved fathers.... but it can be done ther ways.
An unlearned and unpracticed woman is a perfect target for an asswhole to run up on that azz and really keep her down. There are better ways.
This way of living is unnatural and therefore, imo, sick.
But then, can not that be said of any way of Life determined by patriarchial doctrines written and promoted by chauvinists?
This is not about protection - it's about control. I mean, having to ask a father's permission just to be allowed to get to know his daughter?
This is religious abuse and needs to be recognised as such - as should any parental behaviour which stunts a child's natural development.
That father wouldn't let the boys at the ball get to know his daughter, and two months later he had her engaged to someone. Terribly sad.
when i started watching it i laughed at it, now it's almost over and i'm laughing even more!XD I don't know why i got the feeling that walt disney has something to do with those bible editions.
I didn't find it at all funny, however, "virgin balls" opens up a whole new, er ... ball game, doesn't it? ;-)
that's not about keeping yourself from STDs, it is about avoiding heartache. No one wants their child's heart broken, but robbing them of any relationship experience is not the right way. They overdo it, i think
It's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all and you cannot shelter your kids forever because that wouldn't be doing them a favor either.
Heartache is part of life we all must endore trials and tribulations. Your rightthey over do it.. shelter from the real worl dthey world we live in is not right.
I think it is good for people to have some past relationship experience before jumping into a marriage. Heartache heals with time and the scars make you a better and more insightful person.
Its amazing what they are doing to this girls... I was shocked when one of litlle girls said stuff like" i dont date because i dont want to go through the disapointment related emotions" or "if your future boyfriend dates someone before you he is cheating". Really sad and worrying...the only way to achieve real knowledge about our very nature is through the experience of emotion. Actually, emotions are fundamental to guide our lives, because certain emotions are strong signs telling us the correct way. And of course we can be cheated by our emotions as well, but then we learn and we become better situation readers. These girls only manage to be happy if confined to a controlled environment, otherwise this kind of education only weakens people because they do not train their emotional attributes to deal with rejection, failure and thus do not develop tolerance to frustration ; rejection and disappointment are healthy, they help us to evolve and mature. We should embrace the world we have so that we can change it; it is not by running or hidding that we create a better world for the future generations, The problem of groups that have a clearly religious-oriented perpective of the world is that they always end up with their minds narrowed by their ideas. And the big problem is that they are passing to their children their own distortions of the world. It is impossible at the age of 10, 12 or even 17 to realize the implications of choices of such importance. These are not good parents...
Personally, I agree with what you say. It makes good sense, and I'm glad to hear it. Obviously, though, most, if not all, of these Knights in Shining Armor would take the view that since their little princesses are clearly intended ( grudgingly ) for only two men in their lives, there is no need for this broadening of experience you mention. This is sexuality -in particular, FEMALE sexuality- and that is a very special case for which the normal rules that govern their experiences and learning processes must not apply. One of the very WORST things that could happen would be for these girls, once they are of age, to be allowed to carefully find out what is likely to make them happy emotionally and sexually before committing to the one option that is supernaturally allowed to them. In an issue so important for their future well-being, clearly it would be sinful and foolish to permit them any opportunity for forming a basis from which to make these judgements for themselves. I'm afraid, Paulo, from the point of view of these Defenders of the Sacred Feminine, what you put forth as rational just does not stand to reason...
Indeed, it is a pathetic excuse "human nature" that you gave. I'd like to see you to come up with a better excuse on why they should not stay a vegan, you wanker.
Vegan?! No one said anything about diet... But in a way, you're right: At this point, they've already "eaten of the fruit," huh? Wanker.
Absolutely. The parents, I think, are unconciously stunting their children's emotional and intellectual growth. Their are plenty of mroe rational yet still religious parents who do not describe to this extreme method of sexual control; I would like to know how they appproach their children's sexual education in comparison.
wow..enough with charles bashing.
If charles wants to marry his daughter and force her to wear a chastity belt then it's his business..not yours.
btw...aren't there any good doco about USa? lately it's all about making usA look bad :(
With all due respect, I do not think that it is documentaries
that are responsible for making the United States look bad.
Thanks, Joe. . . . . I think!
Ok. Bowing out of this thread. Didn't anticipate the backlash that I expected with the Ugandan missionaries thread. Not sure if I read all of the replies (I tried) but I'm moving on, nonetheless.
P.S. Az, I sent you a Sid Roth link buried down in one of the comments just in case you missed it----it had to pass "moderation". Watch if you'd like or not. France is still a free country too, I think.
As always, peace to you.
Charles, have to admit you are a brave person, putting up with all us heathens (LOL)
Good doc on the continuing wormhole series here on TDF,
See you there, I know how much you like quantum theory, and life after death.
Let's never forget that we have a prominent example of what forced virginity does to people in the catholic church. Dozens of thousands of cases of child abuse often linked to sexual 'discovery' between the boys in monasteries....(one of the 10+ theories of why it happens). I am fairly certain that if those young boys had the opportunity to express themselves when young, there would be a lot less sexual abuse even if they chose celibacy later in life.
Twelve years parochial schooling, one year cloistered to become a priest of the Redemptorist Order, aged thirteen.
What the Church did to me, I will never forgive.
Wow! 218 comments ALREADY on this relatively new doc about (gulp) young girls...Obsessed much for some reason, everybody? I don't have much to add to what has already been said here, really, except to say that, like some of you, I just couldn't make it past 3 minutes of this...And my immediate impression was that, at bottom, these people are terrified of female sexuality, though, because I didn't watch it all, I could be wrong. But look, whether we like it or not, girls ARE sexual ( in some fashion ) from the day they are born, just like "the rest of us". They were designed by nature to be that way, and there is a clear, obvious, long-term purpose for that design. They are NOT Holy Objects, and they should NOT be treated as such, and, moreover, it is a very, very curious thing to me that culturally we are viewing them in this perverse light more and more. I suspect there is something profoundly unhealthy, and damning, about that. Girls should be loved and respected as people capable ( and WILLING ) of sexual-expression within context, by which I mean in a form age-appropriate for them, or mentally and physically for which they know they are ready. And I would just like to say to some of you that I have raised a daughter ( she's 14 now ) completely outside of the indoctrination of religion, since I would not allow her, before being able to reason on her own, to be put through what I was, a sad little story so common I won't bore you with any of its details. And, so far as I can tell, she's pretty mentally healthy, except for a typical strain of teenage attitude I admit I'm waiting for her to outgrow. In our family, her MOTHER has made sure to -ahem- keep abreast of our daughter's budding sexuality, and to make sure she is apprised of the pitfalls inherent in dealing with the opposite-sex. And personally I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything, either: My wife informs me, when we're alone, of concerns, when there are any, and I HAVE had a few talks on such subjects with my daughter as well. But by and large this is not my territory, and I CERTAINLY don't have the level of expertise my wife does in addressing most of our girl's concerns, AND, more importantly, I know our daughter is much more comfortable talking with her mother, so...I don't complicate everyone's emotions, or the situation in general, by insinuating my big, fat ass in where it really isn't NEEDED. And I absolutely do not treat my little girl like she is a character in some fairy-tale, in waiting to be swept away by some impossible prince. She knows she is loved, and she knows we think she is beautiful, and those two things appear to be working wonders all by themselves.
Yes, it is still (HPV) several types of HPV cause genital warts and some cause cancer. Some can be cured or removed.
I see. I'll take your word for it.
I am going all out with my occams gillete fusion here and say that this movie sells the idea of prince and princess charming at its heart. What an easy drug to abuse that is, because people get obsessed with the images fed from movies and books. People build enormous expectations which obviously are never fullfilled. This is a big time advantage for christians because the disapointment is a self fulfilling prophecy, which comes in handy when curing their kids with the other tools at their disposal.
Both men and women can be victims of this throughout adulthood, which is very handy for romantic con-artists to abuse of that weakness to get laid and play with people's hearts. Girls are easy targets because men feed them BS and guys are targets of their manipulation to get to those goals set long ago. Trust me I come from a country that all of its nightlife is based on this... and people are comlpetelly unaware of the games they play.
The dissatisfaction contanimates other areas of their lives, and thus rivals abuses such as abandonment and so on. It is made harder in today's society where people are very short tempered and supra indendepent. People break up easily often for no good reason and often the dream becomes obsessions, turns into disappointment turned dispair. It hardens people, it hurts a lot. It creates a lot of insecurity, co-dependency, spousal abuse, etc.
I know of men and women that are perenially disatisfied with their spouses and it is not because they are horny or whatever, but because the images in their heads are phony and they can't get figure out the riddle. So they seek out their fantasies forever....which is a mistake. I was lucky enough to find a formula for myself, which is a sort of rigorous honest with my lady, which got me to realize that I must love a person with all their faults, eventhough playboy magazine insisted hard I dated a photo of its centerfold plastered on one of those windows fashion dummies.
Pushing the father/daughter relationship to this level is a bit creepy, and delaying sex until marriage is pretty unrealistic. However, the concept of promoting (reasonably sane) family bonds and delaying sexual experiences sounds like a pretty healthy idea compared to what we have now in western society. We expect teens to make logical and intelligent decisions about sex, while we insist on prolonged adolescence and shielding them from other adult consequences.
Instead of dismissing what's going on in the video as being "religious", "cultish" or "authoritarian"; maybe the smart thing to do is address why society feels a need for something like this. It's not just teens who have unrealistic ideas, parents seem a lot more surprised these days when their teens rebel, regardless of their ultra authoritarian or ultra permissive attitudes. Children eventually question their parents' values, it's a part of the normal development process as kids transition towards more independent behavior. But I'd rather see a movement that focuses on independence before sex than one that promotes marriage before sex. Kids need to be able to stand on their own two feet emotionally and financially if they expect to make choices where the consequences affect them and the people around them.
I couldn't agree with you more on managing our children's exposure to sexual experiences, within reason. Parents must help children make decisions in an orderly manner, and I suspect it becomes very hard for parents that cannot manage their schedules and are grew up in a selfish and meritocratic society. What I try to do is to be open about sex with my kids. I try to observe at all times what their interests and personality traits are and give them support so there is more focus on what matters. In talking openly about how the pursuit of love prematurely may disrupt their lives I induce intelectual debates which are incredibly useful.
However, I don't think children rebel without a cause. The cause is inefficient parenting one way or the other. If something that is true to their nature is being violently opposed by those they look up to, they rebel and use whatever means necessary to drug themselves, whether that is sex or cigarettes or what have you. For example, if I know that my child sees fairness as the ultimately way of displaying morality, I make sure that what I do is considered fair in her eyes. That way I make sure she understands how her actions can be highly unfair to the whole family and she takes responsibility for what she would do. The result is that she learns how to navigate in the world using her nature instead of rules. In practical terms, if I see something that is consistently upseting her, I try to define that as a core need/emotion and try to make sure she gets her needs met.
This stuff happens with me all the time and it works..... and trust me the child in question here is a sensorial emotional being....
The whole notion of abstinence as 'purity' is precisely the notion that the opposite of 'purity' is sex.
I was raised Catholic. Every time I went to confession I had to confess the MORTAL sin of 'impure thoughts'. The Church perverted my whole psychology of sexuality from age five, onwards throughout high school: twelve, consecutive, formative years.
'Sex is sinful and dirty' was drummed into my head with terms like the 'Immaculate Conception', as though the regular, old-fashion, non-miraculous, conception was somehow 'un-immaculate' -- dirty. To do that to a child is cruel, perverted, and disgusting.
'Purity' Balls, not even 'Chastity' Balls, but 'Purity' Balls, is:
psychological child molestation.
My heart goes out to the poor girls. Instead of educating the young about sexuality, STD's, how best to make 'safe', rational, responsible, autonomous decisions about sex, the young are fed this fallacious and, ultimately, dangerous, life-threatening C R A P.
Hate can sometimes be positive:
I hate religion!
The notion that people are "pure" (good) or "impure" (bad) is bonkers, especially when that's determined by whether or not someone has had sex. Sex is totally normal and natural and great. It's also safe if you educate yourself.
The idea that sex is somehow evil is absolutely insane. There is no rational justification for that. Often people just cite their own religious superstitions. Most of the more reasonable sounding arguments are actually just reasons why you shouldn't have sex without being educated. These arguments are posited by people who aren't sexually educated themselves and, as such, the only consequences of sex they know about are the consequences of dumb sex.
I was brought up Church of Christ and always felt tremendous guilt for my sexual urges. I wish I had been better educated and started sooner!!!
And they all get married at 18, of course.
Of course. Probably would at 13 if they could.
This is some kind of some stupid dangerous cult, that is using a christian context for a conservative, weird father-daughter relationship. This is, probably, one step closer to a amish type of existence. And one more thing, this is a very not healthy Oedipus complex interpretation of psychological normal way of growing up for a girl.
PS There is the possibility that most of the parents feel guilty of the stupid dumb stuff they did in their life, and now are dumping the guilt on a very unhealthy way of keeping their children in control.
I believe people should be virgin before marriage. I also believe that people who aren't ought not be looked down upon either. My niece is 18 and virgin. She is old enough to think and choose for herself. Whatever she chooses, she is loved by her parents, her deacon and deaconess grandparents, and me her pastor uncle. Love is a greater standard in society than moral purity. Purity is good to aim for. But,it is not an end unto its' self.
People should be virgin before marriage only if they and only they choose to. It is wrong however, if they are expected or required to stay virgin by whoever else, be it their parents, relatives or partner. But to expect a girl not to even kiss a guy before marriage is outright ridiculous.
Creepy. Steve and Jessica were the only sane adult persons in this doc...
I'm shocked and disgusted to see how many people think that purity balls are a good idea. To teach a girl or young woman that her value is based on her (imaginary) "purity" is a retrograde way of controlling women. The borderline-incestuous control from the fathers is probably the most disturbing part of all.
So, are you a mom? Whatcha gonna tell your own daughter? Sure, sweetie do whatever ya want to do it's fine with me! I've known a lot more girls totally destoyed by lives of early sex (either volunarily or non-voluntarily) than girls that had any trouble at all that I could see from "purity". The day the girl I was interested in when in my 20's said, "Charles, I've got vaginal warts" was the day I lost interest 100%. I think in her case, a little purity would have been good for the self image, don't ya think!
So you dumped her at the first sign of trouble? Some great man you are...
'Listening' to what you write forces me to the conclusion that you suffer from 'Smallpox of the Mind'.
WOAAAAA, did god pick certain virus types and put them on the sin list? how about the flu? cough cough! oh the feeling of coughing freely...priceless.
Anyways, tell the purity story to the thousands of couples living with AIDS all over the world that got it simply because they didn't know it existed, or if they did, it was the church that told them that it was wrong to use condoms such as what happens in Africa today.
OH I almost forgot... Where I come from catching gonorrhea is a rite of passage, where fathers hold an old custom to rub their urine on their 15 year olds...yeah some folk cures that actually works! Oh good ol'bonding time.....ehe
Charles, was it because you were a young chap and did not know any better, that you did not try and help the poor girl somewhat? Even praying maybe? I guess that did not help.
I do not know the full particulars, so will give you the benefit of the doubt, that you did not just dump her cold turkey!
By the way, over 70% of the population has the Human Papilloma Virus, (HPV). men and women.
And should of said, many times there are no symptoms at all.
"Purity" is fictional. It is a socially (and often religiously) constructed way of controlling (mostly) females. How could a person possibly lose any value because she/he has had sex before marriage? It. Doesn't. Make. Sense.
As for the young women whose "lives have been ruined" by having sex before marriage, perhaps they feel that way because society treats them like damaged goods, like they actually are less than human because they had sex, much like the case of the woman who had warts and you discarded.
Not shaming our youth DOES NOT EQUAL condoning unprotected casual sex. This issue is not so black and white.
The key to actually helping our youth is comprehensive sex education that does not include guilt and shaming their for their natural desires. We have yet to produce a generation who have had proper sex education...
By viewing women who have had sex before marriage as "less than" you are actually helping to perpetuate one of the most damaging myths in our society. By focusing on the "virginity" of young women and girls, "purity" balls do exactly what it seeks to reject-objectifying women and reducing them to their sexuality.
There you go again, digging a hole.
CnN the things that come out of your mind sometimes is the devil itself! Evil is self made.
You are unbelievable. As i said before even the Christians have a hard time to follow you it seems, imagine US all!
I cant help but reply to this again, so by the girl having (HPV)
you no doubt affirmed that she was below your standards, since you must of been in your twenties also, where you pure at the time or did you dip your wick? smacks to me of double standards. Why did she tell you she had vaginal warts, where you trying to get it on?
If the bible was cool with forced marriage, would you force your daughter to marry who you choose?
You guys are truly mind-boggling! I'm utterly amazed yet again! I was interested in dating April, but out of respect for me, she told me she had warts. I then chose not to persue the relationship further.
Mr. Razor: HPV is different than warts, I do believe. Yes, 70% of the population has it, but i'm 99.99% sure I'm not one of them. I sleep well at night--no fear of AIDS or any other STD. In fact when my wife tested positive for Gonnorea two years ago, I said, "Honey, you don't have it. They mixed up your test results." They had told her I was cheating on her which made me very angry. Swabs and swabs later for both of us they said, "Ah, I'm sorry, but I think we mixed up your test results in the lab." I said, "I had no doubt." Innocense is a very soft pillow.
@C_and_N and whoever else cares.
HPV is DEFINITELY warts.
On a different note...
I am about to take C_and_N's side on something for probably the first (and possibly last) time.
Relationships are a consensual social contract between the individuals involved, from which any of those individuals is free to walk away as he/she sees fit. Romantic relationships are sexual in nature whether or not that has been acted upon. The idea is that, at some point, there will be sexual coupling. If people are sexually incompatible, they have no business being in a relationship. If one person has an STD and the other is not comfortable with the idea of contracting that STD, this renders the couple sexually incompatible, and that can be a deal breaker.
No one is obligated to stay in a relationship with which they are not comfortable and contract a disease just because it might hurt the feelings of the person who has already contracted that disease. It's not like he left his wife of 50 years while she was dying. In his 20s, he left a girlfriend for having a non-curable contagious disease. It isn't a particularly dangerous disease (although it could potentially lead to cervical cancer), so she didn't need him to care for her. Even if she did, he should not feel obliged to stay with her and take care of her forever simply because she was indiscreet in the past and he accidentally went on some dates with her. I'm not judging her at all - almost everybody's got HPV at this point, I'm just not judging C_and_N either. People break up for trivial reasons all the time and there's nothing wrong with that. It may also depend on the person. If my current fiancee told me she had HPV, I wouldn't care - I'd stay with her. This wouldn't necessarily have been the case with certain people I have dated in the past. Not just anyone is worth getting an STD for.
Wow, Cody! That was well said.
High fives to the people on here who have had sex before marriage and are still awesome people!!
When i saw that you were doing work on the site this morning, i was wishing you were changing the page option at the bottom, as on this doc:
1 2...17 NEXT
would be great if it was:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10..17 NEXT
and then on docs that go to more pages then
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10..20 30 Next
if one needs page 16
one goes to 10 which would show 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17.. NEXT
It has to be made easier to scrowl through the doc's comment.
Or does anyone have a better way they use already?
A way i am not aware of yet?
There is no better way, if it would actually link to the comment in hand, which it seldom does, would be great, instead of searching all comments to find the post on the e-mail.
Not giving you any gears Vlatko, still the greatest site, as always!
yep, have you emailed him personally. he said once that if more people voice this opinion, there will be changes. :D
Well I can't do that @Az. It's beyond my control. What I can do is display all the comments at once or let say 100, 200 comments per page. Also moving the comment box at the bottom would be an option if I do that. Like in the old days.
I like the new system. Not perfect, but better than the old one I think.
please put all comments on one page man. please? will the physical appearance of the please make a difference? pretty please???? ehe
All comments on one page would be nice, or at least 100 to 200 comments at a time, would be a running commentary, like reading a book, an option would be newest to oldest, and oldest to newest. Right now the comments are helter skelter, no continuity, have to search all over the place. Comment box on bottom is fine.
Why did i think i had a better idea? I know nothing about setting up a website....
Thank you Vlatko.
If this site was any better, i wouln't have a life any more! lololol
Tragic. Instead of facing their fears, these parents are trying to shelter their children in the most harmful way---by keeping them ignorant and guilt-ridden. Have Americans forgotten Hawthorn already?? Backwards, backwards, backwards! Good intentions, loving, spiritual--but debilitating.
Jessica is hot.
After the difficult exchange we had a few days ago on a different doc/different subject, it is fortunate that life offers such an appropriate doc where you can fully express the best of your Self.
I do "see" that **for you**, raising a child is sort of a sacrament, as if each child is baby jesus. I totally believe your full "root" supports that.
The best of your Self is way deeper than the thousands of pages of the bible, of all the bibles ever written stacked together.
The best of your Self, you see it in your children and in their children as if they were mirrors.
Leaving aside the rest of the crumbs......i do appreciate thinking of you in these ways!
Thank you, Az. That was heart-touching. Yes, I was thinking about this yesterday after our posts to eachother----we all want to do our best as perents; I'm a true blue Christian believer. In my deepest heart, I believe it. If I don't do my best to instil what I believe to be ultimate "truth" in my children's lives, then I've utterly failed 100% as a parent. Even if they grow up to be great people but have a lack of faith, then I'd feel myself a 100% failure as a dad---it's that important to me. This life is so short, and eternity is so long . . . it motivates me at my core level to ensure my children live on past this life with God's good pleasure.
If my son or daugher stuggled with homosexuality or any other "vice" or "sin" for that matter, I would do my best not to disown them but be part of their lives actively still, so I could always be there to say, "Try one more time. Please." I try to be fair, loving, kind and respectful---but I ask the same from them for me.
Blessings to you and your daughter too.
Charles, in other words your children have no recourse but to accept your religion, they knowing the outcome.
All you are doing to them is laying a major burden of guilt on them forever. Because they will know not to stray from the path you have chosen for them even if they wanted to. But keep in mind they just might stray. Some people on this planet are, or even do become free thinkers Charles, without the restrictive bonds of religion. Keep that in mind!
If you feel that you've failed as a father if your child does not choose to follow your particular brand of religion, then sorry, but you've already failed as a father. You should have never become one in the first place.
"Even if they grow up to be great people but have a lack of faith, then I'd feel myself a 100% failure as a dad---it's that important to me."
There you go again....either religious or no good! This tells me that once you let go of the shackles YOU impose on your Self (because of religion) you will be a Free man who choose to do good not because Jesus tell you how but because you know how.
Hehehe. Good one. Well if the girl wants to that's fine if not that's fine. Same with the boys. But hey it's much funner to say all must this or all must that. Opposing views are always excrement anyway. Have fun comments section make sure to insist that you each are right and that others a wrong for wanting it their way. Hypocrisy is so fun and it owns us all.
This is f***ing disgusting! Coming from a christian background, and finally overcoming the disease of ingnorant prickism, I can see clearly now that people who suppress their inner nature almost always end up ill. What kind of god would put you in a horny (24/7 for me) body of an evolved monkey that has to live their whole life pinching their d***s so as not to get a raging boner? A s***ty make-belief one, that's who. Boners are fun, and women like them too.
that farmer is basically a stud...i mean if the girls were even remotely attractive he's got mad game
To anybody that thinks that injecting unreasonable fear into little girls is a good idea. The only reason why you believe this is a good idea other than religion, is because you come from a disfunctional family to begin with, so you see this from within your emotional context, such as because of abandonment, sexual abuse or what have you. If your mother only used the kitchen as a place for sexy pictures with her boyfriend while you watched mexican sitcoms in your room, yes you will likely feel not very well and will think castrating/manipulating a person's sexuality is a solution.
See where I am coming from here? the christian based point of view is an emotional crutch. If given the choice they would outlaw pre-marital sex altogether as other lovely democracies such as Iran. They are wrong. Despite the pain one feels, we cannot blame an institution or a physiological necessity for their misfortunes. Next time I poo and it hurts, I will try to ban bread because its making my stool terribly painful and it may give me hemorrhoids. Perhaps we should regulate anuses!
Anyways....A parent cannot replace reason with dogma. YOU CAN'T REPLACE EDUCATION WITH SEDATION/CASTRATION. A parent has to guide children on how to make choices properly, whether these are regarding cigarettes, sex, alcohol and so on. It is every parent's job to pay attention closely so they know when a child is ready for what nature reserved for them.
Now, in regards to marriage if you don't know the follwing you are either never been married or has been part of a massive failed one. Great marriage does not come before great sex. It is the other away around just as any other physical attribute/experience comes before an institution/organization. One can't be a great basketball player without being a great athlete and so on. So please,marriage is not always the same in a variety of cultures, so remember that when talking ties between 2 people.
Remember, gays can marry in NYC now. Brazil too! How about them fruitypops eh? oooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh
I really am shocked! I thought there would be tons of positive comments about this documentary. It's wholesome and pure and puts forth a wonderful example for families to follow. If my dad had followed these practices, I would have had a better life, and that's for sure, but he tried in his own right, and I give him credit for that. I love you, Dad!
Mr. Razor: Yes, sex is overrated. If you have a great marriage then sex is nearly always also great. But if you have a poor marriage, sex I'm quite sure is not going to make it much better--in fact it divides husbands and wives. I'm married 24/7 but I get sex . . . well, let's just say with two kids (one night owl and one early bird) if that's all we had going for us, then one of us would have been going by now!
Sex is a God-given joy to be enjoyed within proper contexts. Like all joys, it's only acceptable when done in a Godly way, and outside of marriage there is no other way that pleases God.
I wish I could arrange something like this for our chruch to do. I was thinking about it last night. I'd also love do to a boys' "Purity Camp" and teach the same principles to them via a camping experience.
To the guy who said (forgot your penname) I think it was you that said all the friends you admired had slept around and loved it (paraphrased). Ah, yeah, something really tells me that we'd choose vastly different people to admire!
what godly way exactly? god had nothing to say about sex. men did.
It was God's original command to "be fruitful and multiply" so it was God's idea. He could have made people "bud" like a sponge, I guess. But, He chose this way (sex) so we could also enjoy the process.
Charles...Godly way?? you mean you have to pray when you are getting it on??
Or pray so you can perform better?.. You say does not please your god no other way outside of marriage? I do not give a rats a$$ of pleasing your god, let him get his jollys somewhere else! and mind his own business! What of the people that stay single? Does that mean they are going to your hell?
Well, yes, I have prayed . . .
And no, it's not sinful to stay single. That's ok as long as you keep your virture while doing it.
I'm sorry, but all I see here is not purity but a rather distorted, verging on the incestuous, father daughter relationship. Especially the father of the 11 years old who went to 5 purity balls looks so creepy!
Charles... are you changing your tune, you said there is no other way in your gods eyes to have sex if it was not in marriage, again what is acceptable in your gods eyes to have sex within proper context, done in a godly way, while single, pray while you are humping? or what? clarify.
Why would anybody need a piece of paper/marriage licence, from mere mortals to have sex?
By the way to have god while having sex would be classed as a "menage a trois" kind of kinky wouldn't you say??
There is no Godly way to have sex while single, outside of marrage. Masturbation is still a sin, but usually the consequences are less for such and is not specifically called sin in the Bible any where as adultery, fornication, homosexuality and beastiality are.
When I said it's not a sin to stay single, as long as it's done with virtue, I mean as long as a person is single, they keep their virtue (purity) and reamin celabate.
Sex is holy (as in holy matrimony) when it's an act within marrage, because God has dictated it to be that way only. A marrage certificate is more than just a piece of paper; it's a commitment before God and man. I don't think any one particular position is more "holy" than any other, however.
Unbelievable!! As the Kinsey reports state some boys had to have special harnesses installed, to prevent them from having "woodies" so would not anger your gods. In your asinine religion.
Keep yourself pure when the hormones kick in for teenage boys?? Can't even use your left handed Ho? Right!
Must of been a lot of boys living in pure guilt and abject fear?
A marriage certificate is just a piece of paper, a contract between two people, that can be got from justice of the peace, or go to Vegas, instead of churches, that is not sanctioned by your gods, does that mean they will be living in sin?
Be careful of your reply, Charles, may be non-religious marriage brokers or Juctice's of the peace, on these threads.
Charles, I should read your posts in depth, now you say there "might" be holy positions for sex, like maybe the missionary position? One way, boring!
Where does that put the Kama Sutra? Every position known to man. Is that the depths of depravity in your books? (LOL)
I agree with Oz. you are a very funny guy.
If you cannot understand the negative comments outside of the context of your religious understanding you will not be be able to see that there is a compassionate and sympathetic positivity in their concern--the problem is that despite the good intentions, the entire position of "purity" is based on fear, and that these young girls are going to suffer extreme guilt if they do not "obey" the covenants set out for them from such a young age.
Why not arm young people with knowledge, confidence, and self-respect and allow them to make their own decisions in a spiritual, yet non-religious way? I think it is tragic that sex education is not taught to all young people; trying to shelter them from the real world does not work. They end up getting pregnant and marrying the wrong person then spend years on anti-depressants, praying to God to get them through their days.
There is nothing about sex to be afraid of when you are properly educated.
You look like a young girl. You sound like a smart one too!
At least didn't have trash mouth like most here. Thank you for that. I disagree. True virtue is very rewarding. Turning you back on it, yes, I can see how that could bring problems and guilt, etc --- like Miss Colorado did in the doc. When you have sex, you're giving part of yourself away that never comes back if you give it to the wrong person. I think I'm wise enough not to let my daughter marry some worthless looser even if she did get pregnant outside of wedlock. Mistakes happen; try again.
"I really am shocked! I thought there would be tons of positive comments about this documentary."
Surely, you jest.
Because, if you are not joking, then you are lying, again.
Had you found "tons of positive comments about this documentary,"
then you really would have been "shocked!!"
Why do you say such ridiculous things as this?
Or, are you indeed joking?
Boys purity camp? What a novel idea Charles! I have heard the phrase "sex sells" and it works even if you want to sell chewing gum but marketing abstinance... WHOA brilliant!
Whilst instilling them whith your wholehearted goody goodlyness purity don´t forget to rub some poison ivy on their little wieners just in case some want to mastrubate. Think of the fortune you could make!
Also bring marshmallows. No camping experiance is complete without them.
"...sex is overrated."
"Sex is a [???]-given joy..."
"...boys' 'Purity Camp'..."
I can see it now!
Boys lining up in droves to attend Charlie's no Jack Off Camp.
Charles, are you just trying to get a rise out of people,
or are you a natural born clown?
I don't think it's possible for boys not to masturbate, actually. It's not mentioned in the Bible anywhere as "sin" but seems to be the lesser of all the sexual sins. Statistically, 100% of boys/men masturbate, so there's some room for grace here. Girls included, but the percentage is much lower, like 70% I think.
Maturbating for a 14 year old is a lot different than sleeping around with whomever you want to, Oz.
This Purity Ball is about sexual intercourse between to people, not masturbation.
And yes, I think many WOULD come, by CHOICE to a purity camp! I would have, had I been given the chance at age 16 or so.
"I don't think it's possible for boys not to masturbate...It's not mentioned in the Bible anywhere as 'sin'"
And that's why, "...because It's not mentioned in the Bible..."
Charles, hence forth I shall treat you with great compassion and most certainly without anger.
Until now, I had no idea just how sick you really are.
"Until now, I had no idea just how sick you really are."
and here is why:
Charles B. to Razor in discussion on the documentary Chemistry: the volatile history
"Who didn't play with mercury as a kid?!? I loved the stuff! Just roll it around in your hands until it disappears! Obviously absorbed into the skin, as I know now."
To those of you who find this sad. Consider the girls who had no or poor parenting - who had toxic family members who raped her as a baby girl, hated her as a messed up, suicidal teenager and abandoned her to a world who saw her as easy meat, because she didn't even know she could say 'No'.
My story is not so unique. We are legion - we the abused and the unloved daughters.
Because of my background - yeah - I found this all a bit creepy and American, but oh my God - I would have been so lucky to have had a Dad like these ones. Or just people who have raised the level of expectation of self-respect amongst themselves in my life.
What kind of parent could I have been - instead of this chaotic cookie with too much emotion and not enough idea of how to raise up my kids...
I wonder if that family would adopt me. I could do with being told I was beautiful once a week or so. Imagine how a lifetime of that would lift you up.
Wow! That was great! I dated (and loved and would have married) a woman in Arkansas who had her first baby at age 13 due to being prostituted out by her mother. Her brother caught her hair when she jumped off a bridge at age 16 on her birthday to commit suicide because everyone forgot it was her birthday (she didn't know he followed her). So, I agree with you, these parents seem wonderful to me too; I wish my dad had been more like that.
Wow! C_and_N - me too - my dad was a no show;but no one here is concerned about the fathers not being supportive - we are concerned about the motivation.
There are a few here ( not necessarily you CandN) that seem to propose that a "Christian" up bringing would solve all of societies abusive/neglectful families (not all but a few eluded to that) ...where if you look at the data, studies consistently show socio-economic status and education level has more to do with abuse and mistreatment that anything else. Just because they espouse a belief in Christ ( and seeing they was are talking Arkansas here - not many non-Christians running around there - and most people count themselves as Christians here in the USA - whatever that means) does not make them immune to bad parenting (extreme in this case).
If we follow the line of logic some have purposed here, there would be more Jews, Wiccans. Agnostics, and Atheists not being supportive or abusive to their children and/or sleeping around horn dogs - which is a gross over simplification and simple has no data to back it up.
You can keep yourself "Pure" without a church, public statement, coercion from the big parent in the sky threatening you with the ultimate punishment or Daddy's support...education and a supportive society could go along way in helping young women make wise decisions...but we all know that's not going to happen anytime soon - as with the case with your former girlfriend.
I have had the opportunity to meet rapists at a prison. A friend who is a counselor in one. I learned that it is well documented that there has never been a case of a rapist that was not raped himself. Environment is what dictates most of a person's reality, so if a woman prostitutes a daughter that means she likely has been prostituted herself.
So, even if the mother of the suicidal girl would have seek religious help, but a trauma such as prostitution lingered in her head, she would most likely use religion to forgive herself for her sin and keep practicing.
The prostitution in this case is in the trauma, not in the availability of premariral sex. It is out there because there are real people with real problems, going through unfortunate situations and sex can be a crutch too. That is why it is important to protect kids from certain situations and sometimes protection means controlling their exposure to certain things so they feel safe in their sexuality and actually avoid seeking out prostitutes themselves. It is very normal for example for young virgin boys to seek out prostitutes because it is the only way they feel safe after years and years of religion based sexual shame.
Of course I am against forced prostitution of minors or adults, but I think prostitution can be useful. There is a lot of marriages that are saved because of the occasional hooker. yes that is true, because midlife crisis are true too!
Sorry about your experiences and those other have gone through - knowing a few friends had life altering experiences myself. I think what many here are criticizing or concerned with is not the support - but the motivation of that support. Why can't they say all those things without 1. Church involvement 2. A public spectacle 3. Contingent on "purity" 4. With respect to true choices of the child (soon to be woman) as a separate person 5. Love, with what seems to be, strings attached. 6. The role of young men.
In fairness, their parents might be totally supportive if a young woman "Fell off the wagon" and got kissed or more - but could the girl ever be sure her parents and God ever truly forgave her? With 3 of my girlfriends - that was not the case. 2 left their church and have rough relations with parents - one stayed in her church and seems to be fine - granted, anecdotal arguments don't beat statistical - but to my knowledge there are no statistical... There are many people out there who have spent loads of money on doctors and meds trying to get over what their parents expected of them - where is the unconditional love?
I feel for you. There is a lot of abandoned grown ups out there, just as there are victims of sexual abuse and many other psychological ilnesses. It is a very sad reality, but nothing is impossible to be fixed. You can find help, in fact it is your duty to invest your time to resolve the issues and I think you will! With that said, it does not mean that one must cut all ties with the perceived problem that caused it. Why abandon sex? That only means one is accepting defeat because of a misfortune.
Look, if christians had their way, they would outlaw premarital sex like in Iran or other lovely democracies. See I speak here of reality, not some faith based preaching like christians do. They are absolutely wrong. Despite the pain one feels, we cannot blame an institution or a physiological necessity for their problems and misfortunes. Next time I poo and it hurts, I will try to ban bread because its making my stool terribly painful and it may give me hemorrhoids. Outlawing anuses perhaps?
What is wrong with people?
Do you mean the commentors? It baffles my mind too!
I mean indoctrinators and manipulators of the young and innocent - these controlling fundamentalist parents.
After engaging in this conversation a bit, I'm now actually watching this doc. Oh my gawd. This is so sad.
Where there is smoke there is fire-----the world is such a crazy place full of drugs and evil so we have to make young girls pay for it---come on--it's alway males regulating women's bodies and what they should and should not do with it! In the mediaeval times they slapped 'chastity belts' on women and now this ----frankly there is something very odd about the pastor and his relationship with these girl children. At the end of the day all human beings are here because our parents had sex! And as so many of you have pointed out already, making your own mistakes ie first heartbreak etc is called growing up--how vulnerable will such sheltered girls be when they get played because they did not develop skill to identify players for instance. This sound too cultish and patriarchal--patronizing to say the least!
There's definitely something creepy about men taking this much interest in the daughters' sex lives. Teaching your children to make good decisions is one thing, but expecting them to be chaste little madonnas is just repressive. There's also an incredibly sexist double standard regarding male sexuality, which isn't to say that side of the coin isn't destructive as well. Men should be (heterosexual) Don Juans, women virgins. How exactly is that supposed to work?
Yes, you obviously didn't watch the doc. Men are supposed to wait too. A lot of us do!
I have watched the documentary and I maintain that there is something very creepy about these grown men trying to control and supervise their YOUNG daughters' sex lives or future sex lives. The double standard for men I was referring to is not specifically in regard to the film - I should have clarified that. It's about society at large. I will acknowledge that the people in this film (mostly) seem to think men should be virgins, too, but their focus is heaped upon their daughters as if there is some special reason for girls to repress their sexuality. There's no mother-son virginity celebration, as far as I'm aware. Across the board, these parents hold their children up to standards that they personally never lived up to. They have imagined an ideal to impose on others that they never behaved according to, and THAT is another double standard. Why on earth do these fathers care so much if their teenage daughters kiss a boy before they're married? That is an absolutely insane expectation.
I would not argue that many men wait until marriage to have sex. As a personal choice, I say "whatever floats your tractor." This is not about personal choice though, it's about the manipulation and pressure placed on young sexually-uneducated girls by overbearing fathers to live up to unreasonably strict standards for which there is no objective evidence of any benefit.
One in six American girls now takes a "purity pledge"? Really?
Randy Wilson, a self-appointed minister of the ‘New Life’ church is more a creepy narcissistic with personality disorder than a minister.
The scene with his kids in queue to be bless by him? Really again?
I don't know how Jane Treays did to remain objective on making this documentary. I would have speak my mind to those men on the first 10min of the film.
She didn't maintain objectivity. Every things she said was against the purity movement. You could hear it in her voice. But, since the people were so wholesome, she had to show at least some good things about the movement.
I disagree. She stayed fairly objective. She asked maybe two or three questions that confronted the interviewees on the possible negative implications of their actions, and it was necessary to the integrity of the documentary to get their responses to these questions. The overwhelming majority of the film focuses on the many members of the purity movement (and ONE former member) explaining themselves and their beliefs without any outside commentary. Simply bringing up an opposing point of view on a controversial subject is not the same as being down on the subjects of the documentary.
Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things:
One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell.
The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth
and you should save it for someone you love.
~ Butch Hancock
yes let's save the most aweful to the wives we love!
Wow, I feel sorry for these girls. I think they have good values, but the reality is that they need to experience life and heartbreak in order to make a logical decision for their future. You have to make mistakes in order to grow up.
It doesn't mean then need to have sex before marriage, but they cant make an informed decision about a life mate without knowing what's out there. I also find it funny that none of their parents practiced what they want their children to do.
I have known many that have waited for marrage to have sex. But, I've yet to meet a man or woman I respect that that had sex before marriage that DIDN'T say they regretted it--and yes, I've asked and they've answered honestly.
They say a wise man learns from his mistakes, but a wiser man learns from other peole's mistakes. Don't you think they want their daughters (and sons) to learn from their parent's mistakes? Listen to the wisdom of people that say "Do better than I did, please!"
As far as facts, I knew the "facts" at age 16. It's a fallacy that you have to dip your toe in ever mud puddle to find the one true love of your life later.
Odd. Almost everyone I respect has had sex before marriage and does not regret it. Do you respect these people because they subscribe to a system of values that predisposes them to agree with your preconceived notions of the relationship between sex and marriage?
I've had sex with eight people, all but one of whom I was in some kind of monogamous relationship with. I've even had a failed marriage. I don't regret any of those experiences, even the bad (and I mean BAD) marriage, because those experiences helped shape me into who I am today. I'd almost say I regret that religious indoctrination prevented me from becoming sexually active sooner! I've now been with my fiancee for over three years, and she is without a doubt the most wonderful person I've ever known and I'm committed to her for the long haul. Still I'm actually sort of glad that I got some of the awkward sexual discovery out of the way before we met, so that now I am able to be a good partner for her.
Why on earth is it a MISTAKE to have sex without being married? Why are you even obligated to get married at all? You don't have to "dip your toe in ever [sic] mud puddle to find the one true love of your life later." What if you have sex responsibly with only a few partners who you love and are in a serious monogamous relationship with? What if the law will not permit you to marry your partner? So what if you do have sex with many partners as long as you're being responsible about it?
Sex IS NOT evil. Sex is normal and natural and inescapable. Humans, like all animals, are hard-wired for it. Above all, sex is a JOY.
C and N I love your comments...because I disagree with every one on every video..I've never commented before, I'll let the other people with more smarts than me take it away...again.
This is so creepy. It is like the daughters want to find a guy that is EXACTLY like their fathers and will only have sex with that specific guy after marriage.
Bob, the fathers want their daughters to marry a good man, and the best wasy to encourage their daughters to do so is to mirror the qualities that you want your daughter to accept as "normal" and good. You don't want you daughter to marry a cheating wife beater do you? Then don't be one yourself. It's that simple. List all the characteristics you want your daughter to look for in a husband, and then mirror those. Sex is overrated--it's icing on the cake, but if your cake is a mudpie, then no amount of frosting will make up for the much underneath it!
I disagree, it is about the fathers wanting control, the fathers should leave their young daughters alone about the sex thing, that is the mothers job. Men do not know and will never know what women want!! Women are unfathomable especially concerning sex, their values are different then mens.
Make sure they have proper education, and not ingrain their little heads with their asinine religions or otherwise beliefs on impressionable young girls.
When the girls are old enough let them think for themselves, make their own decisions about life choices, without the father sticking his nose into everything. That should be mostly be the mothers job anyway.
Mirror the qualities of what?? the evangelical fundamentalist religee's? Bad choice. That is the road paved to perdition, guilt, imprisonment, strife and unhappiness!! Et al.
I totally agree with Achems said so I'm not going to comment more about that but C_and_N I can't believe how wrong you are. It's a so fundamentalist approach that grasp in perversion.
And "Se is overrated"? I'm so sorry but you seems to me you have been unfortunate in life so far.
Just a few additional points that came to my mind
What about the mothers that bring their 4-5 yrs old to beauty pagean? They are probably more numerous than these few fathers who just got a lot of publicity.
What i see here is sort of a clan attitude. The parents are fully involved in accepting or not the man chosen by the girl. In India, the husband is chosen when the girl is still a young child, she doesn't have a choice of Who.
As Rachelnico writes: "I also find it funny that none of their parents practiced what they want their children to do."
I also get the impression that none of the fathers or mothers were virgin, some were divorced.
ANd finally, where did this non conditional almost venerable "love for a daughter" GO when this young girl got pregnant? Such love from religious sinners.
I just skimmed over your comment, I must be going blind, did you say that sex was overrated?? Was that a typo?? good grief man that is one of the deciding things in a good marriage, women have left their husbands if they were getting substandard sex, and visa-versa.
Sex is one of the prime movers in a good marriage, and all of life for that matter, and guess what, sex even sells!! big time!!
Yes mothers bring little daughters to beauty pageants, but on the premise they want them to become famous, and possibly live through them, something the mothers maybe aspired to but couldn't manage.
A little bit different then what this doc is about. But I get what you are saying. Still parents have no right by treating their children as objects. Something to control and manipulate as this doc suggests.
Sexual compatibility is definitely a huge factor in the success of a relationship. Not the only one, but still an essential one.
If all Christians were like you C and N - we would not be having this discussion (reading your post in regards to your former girlfriend and equality of men and women in the purity movement)....With you on the "sex is the icing" bit - but to say that virginity is a prerequisite for being able to pick the "Right Man" makes no sense. It is great to mirror all the qualities you want your daughter to pursue - yes - but do you make the acceptance/love of her completely contingent on a promise she made when she was 12?
What about all those virgins through out history and in recent history that could chose for love - and still wound up with a "cheating wife beater"? Abusers are infamous for being able to hide their true natures until they are well into a relationship.
Is this a true "free choice" of these young girls or just another way men control women. The answer is obvious. These fathers are a few steps away from the monsters who operate polygamist cults. I am all for girls remaining virgins until they get married as long as it is there choice. Not a decision made by a man or a church. This would not be near as pathetic if it was a mother/daughter ball.
And why is that? In a cultural world of absantee fathers, you're bad mouthing fathers that take an active role in the raising and rearing of their daughters/son? Hum. When my two year old puts garbage in her mouth (like she did yesterday off the street), I pondered, "I want my daughter to not get hepititus and get sick, but yea know, it's her choice to put trash in her mouth--I have no right to instruct her in the way she should act until she's old enough to make wise decisions herself." How progressive of me.
active ""controlling"" role and one that leaves no mercy in case of "divergence of opinion".
What do you suppose would happen if let's say, the fourth daughter was a more rebellious person, not so "shapeable"?
What if it was found that she slept with a guy, didn't get pregnant and is still wanting to see him BUT the family does not see this guy as being fit?
You say Hell exist...ya i think so, it would be for her to live among her sisters (who are trust worthy according to code of ethics) and "so but so" dissapointed mother and specially father.
Utterly fantastic! This blessed my heart greatly. I really want to do this with my daughter! I wore a purity ring before my marriage, so I think this would be a great idea for young men, also. Go dads (and moms)! Way to "man up" and be a real part of your daughters' lives!
And what was my wife's gift to me at the age of 36 on our wedding night? Her verginity---something I never asked of her before our marriage.
How about virgin sons? and the mothers take control of their sons sexual comings, imagine the outcome of that! "Oedipus Complex" anyone? How will the mothers control their sons sexual urges???
A mass murder of the fathers by their sons, due to jealousy!! Yes??
I think that one thing that should be uppermost that to try to govern the opposite sex thinking, especially about sex, is that has to be the same sex to do that, mothers to their daughters, fathers to their sons.
how possibly can a male come even close to figure what a women wants, or even try to understand the opposite sex?? That everybody is humanly impossible!!
I agree with you trying to understand the opposite sex is not only impossible, it is a foolish and wasteful exercise. Cus if one tries that it usually becomes an endless chain of categorically imperative arguments and maxims and other stuff that takes people nowhere.
Instead what I do is to reduce chances of failing in key areas such as raising kids by focusing on practical things. I teach my kids in a sort of cynical/honest way, telling them about what is possible to experience and how and why certain things need to be done in a certain order.
I parent a 7 and a 12 year old girl on a daily basis. So it is obvious that I know them enough to know that sex never ever crosses their minds, although they both know that babies come out of vajayjays. So what I do as a parent is to pay attention to their emotional development to know when to let go and allow their nature to take them places they need. So if I see that one of them is 16 and is not ready ( or doing it for a false reason)... I will assert my position as a parent.... enforceable in whatever ways necessary.
Good point, Mr. Razor. I agree with you there. Virgin sons is just as important as virgin daughters I think.
In fact, I think this should also be a dad's responsibility too to talk with his son about sexual issues, with the mother's full support for both daughters and son.
Of course a girl should always have a mother to support her if and when she needs her, but the dad as well.
The same is true for the son.
Even now, at age four, I'm talking to me son and telling him, "M. I want you to be free to talk to me about anything. Ok?" I'm starting young in hopes of fostering that openness that only comes with complete trust and love and respect.
Don't you think that is too big a risk to take?
If one is lucky enough to know in advance that she is at least capable of fondling herself... that is a plus there. But what if she not really into sex and you are.... how can one solve the unsolvable?
I can't help myself not to imagine a 30+ year old virgin woman marrying a 30+ year old man (virgin or not).... at a time where 2 adults should be struggling to grow in various more age appropriate ways, they are instead trying to figure out how to fondle each others privates properly.... without knowing if there will be results. oh man.... so super uncool.
Of course, I am not endorsing people being promiscuous indiscriminately. I am just saying that some practice is a good thing... and a proper parent should support testing and experimenting... and yes the management of the ensuing emotional struggles is where a parent can expect to increase the rate of success... cus one way or the other people grow from heartbreak.
You're more likely to have sexaul dysfunction from your past sexual experiences rather than a virgin later in life. You're arguments are really poor. There's nothing that a sixteen year old can do better sexaully than a vergin 25 year old when she gets married. In fact, NOT having to worry about your wife's past lovers is very nice. No STD's, no hang ups, no one that you're being "compared" with performance wise and vice versa. Love does not equal sex. Save your sex for someone you love and then both will be better. Have sex without the love, and both will be tainted for years to come. Notice the "oversexed" father in the doc. was very sincere in encouraging his daughters to not do as he did?
Charles, let me tell you a virgin women will "always" think of what sex will be like with another man!! No ifs and no buts!
And the same goes for the men, it is human nature. Case closed!
You say an oversexed" father talking to his daughter about sex, and what she should not do. All that will do is make her very curious.
What a bunch of 1d1ot people these are.
I don't think I agree with you on that: "they are instead trying to figure out how to fondle each others privates properly.... without knowing if there will be results. oh man.... so super uncool."
I dont think husbands and wives should judge each other or be upset with each other if they can't 'peform' or whatever in bed. that just seems wrong. to me it seems we should value them and encourage them to become proficient at being a better moral person, whatever you think that means, IMHO
@ y m
I think i left space for morality in my argument when I said that in their 20s people would be focused on a lot of things that are important to them, including moral development.
However, the way I see it if a person is dealing with sexual hang ups, it may worry them to death so instead of focusing on children and morals and other important stuff, they may just be stuck with something that they should have learned in college....(isnt that what college is for?)
@ Y M
I see sexual dysfunction as a funtion of not having an emotionally safe environment to learn sexual practice which includes learning how to pick partners, handling romance and its difference from attachment and friendship, and prioritizing it in a person's life. It would apply for both women and men equally. There is a method to the madness of being a young adult.
Now diseases is something that one cannot control. but I would argue that if married to the wrong virgin, her sexual frustration for not being able to be a sexual match could very well make her seek out other lovers which could increase STD risk specially under stress. The man on the other hand being so insecure and inexperienced will likely go from 5 mins of sex in the first 3 months to 30 seconds 2 years later, and that dear friend will only happen because you know she has nobody else to compare yourself with. This is what happens in real life, you cannot run away from it, even if both of you had 150 partners each. Now imagine if the sex sucks, which is very possible and all otehr variables in a relationship that the couple is also a virgin in. When will there be time to have fun in sex if money is short, kids are screaming and gunk is going down the drain?
Now it takes little to see here that I rather be with a hooker than with the wrong virgin woman. Why? because experience thought me that people externalize their frustrations in various ways. People use drugs (including religion) people oversexualize, overwork and so on. There is no way to control how a person will deal with frustration and I think sexual frustration is a very big trauma if not managed properly. Forcing little girls being virgins should be considered torture, for it is forced sexual frustration. The risk is too big to take for a man and for a woman to be virgins til adulthood.
So tell me one thing: can a 30 year old manage to masturbate guiltlessly in your point of view? Can she be touched before marriage? Can she get a brazilian wax? Where is the line..... look there is no way you can make your argument stand without coming down to Jesus my dear...
and of course, let's not go to how children figure out sex..... cus let me tell ya, you will be surprised when you catch you 8 year old lil girl playing with her lil vajayjay and then next day she defecates over her sisters belly in the living room just for fun and you would think that she had some trauma, but no..... she is just learning how her body works...
C_and_N, you seem like a devoted husband and father, so I don't want to blame you or castigate you for your beliefs. For some reason flogging religion is the thing for a lot of people on this forum.
Nevertheless, I want to speak up for your little daughter. Right now she is young and innocent and the only relationship with a man she needs to have is the one she has with you, as her father. But even though it is probable, given that you and your wife have such low libidos, that she would accept and welcome and never need any other guidance than what you can give her in selecting a life partner, it isn't guaranteed. Sometimes these things skip generations. What is your daughter going to do if she is like, say, me, and the hormones kick in in a rush at age 15? If all you and your wife have taught your daughter is to be "pure" and to "wait," you have put her at extreme risk of STDs, pregnancy, and emotional devastation when her own body compels her to do what comes naturally to the vast majority of us.
I didn't have a lot of emotional wisdom when I started dating, and sure, I kissed (and more) a lot of frogs. But at the very least I knew how to correctly use birth control, and I didn't worry that having premarital sex would cause my parents to stop loving me, as every girl in this documentary will undoubtedly fear (perhaps with justification). I suspect that your intentions in raising her this way, though coming from a place of love, will end up being a burden that she will stagger under for years and years.
True what you have said, if that would be the case, will live with a burden of guilt of the natural sex/sexual feelings, compounded with the burden of guilt from religion and a burden of guilt from the parents. A triple whammy!
Those who follow the superstition lifestyle fear change, striving
always to dominate at the expense of consensus and peace.
Two words came to my mind spontainiously after having watched this doc., brainwashing and kult. I am not expressing an opinion of right or wrong, just what came to mind.
You WERE expressing an opinion, and "cult" is spelled with a "C" I do believe.
Thank you for the spelling correction. I don't live in an English speaking country, so I do tend to get mixed up sometimes with my spelling. One can argue about the opinon statement, but I am not one to argue. :o)
@ Marion Bruns
My reaction was similar to yours. What I saw here was as unsettling as it is depressing. In my case, 'psychological child molestation' is what came to mind.
agreed. this is fear based religious tactics applied to destroy children collectively, which is euphemized to be a 'relationship with god first' type of thing.
People should wait when they are mature.. I agree, but this is why its wrong.. this STUNTS MATURITY! I had my heart broken and realised boys just dont see sex and kisses the same as we do, growing up on disney bullshit (I love disney btw) but I only met my dream man after I kissed all the mean, yet good looking "frogs", and you cant judge a man by his looks... it takes a lot to know a person.. and you want to know they will stick by you after sex and aren't just holding out.
Imagine getting married, finding out his Thing is small or something?? LOL.
Or what if he gets what he wants (worse, you suck at it, and are a selfish lover which these girls will be since its all about them) and then divorces you??
You cant have everything perfect.. life isn't a fairytale and boy oh boy men are not princes!! Do you think boys dream of this shit?? No they play with guns and sticks at 7, and blow things up, and look at girls in bikinis when they are 14. Reality of learning that boys and some men are pigs will happen... it was hard for me and I wasn't even religious.. this is making it even harder for the glass to shatter.
Life isn't perfect.. you must go through pain before finding true love, true love who will be a mature man looking for a wise, equally mature woman, not a stupid virgin who doesnt know any sex positions, cant use her mouth or hold a good conversation, and has a creepy father watching over your shoulder 24/7. Look at Jess Simpson, creepy joe simpson, and Nick Lachley. poor nick!
.... so be careful what you wish for.
I couldn't disagree more. You can discern a boy's character over time without having sex with them. If you want a peach, shop in the fruit section, not the garbage bin! They say date a person for two years and you'll see the person's true character within that time or slightly beyond.
Any why could you learn sexual positions before marriage and not after? Surely you don't get that inept in a few years time. My wife was a 36 year old virgin when we got married, and she can do just about anything a sixteen year old can, I'm quite sure--should we want to. That was a very poor argument for non-abstinance.
I am not from a garbage bin, and neither is anyone I know who is not a virgin and unnmarried, you masogynistic pig.
A woman is beautiful and deserves respect- she's not a car that racks up millage, she's not fruit than rots when bitten, shes a human being!!
Is your wife a peice of stringy s*** after popping out two kids?? Im sure she isn't- and giving birth is far harder than letting a dick in. So man up, women are not objects.
Both Mum and Dad has a role in this matter, not solely Dad
Both Dad and Mum have their role in this matter, not solely the Dad..
Satisicitly, if both parents are Christian, then the child has a 70% chance of following in their footsteps. Mother alone a Christian--30% Father alone--still close to 70%. Fathers are that powerful in a child's life, espeically his daughters.
I don't believe you.
I'm skeptical, too. Richard Dawkins hasn't thought it through when he calls a strong religious upbringing child abuse. It's as effective a method as I know for producing the atheists of the future. ;-)
Oh please! another up-coming nation of brain dead zombies!
Statistically, if both parents are Christians, then 30% of children have a chance to get free from the confine of Christianity.
Mother alone a Christian, 70% of kids take that choice.
Father alone a Christian, 30% of kids take that choice.
In these days and age, there are a LOT of children raised by their moms mainly with occasional visits to dad. Now i am not saying that is good for a child, far from it. But it gives a bit of hope to see that many more at least find freedom of self spirituality, if they chose to, at least in a Christian surrounding according to CnN.
I was a lucky one, allowed to be free and honest. Yes a child has to be allowed to be honest at all times!
wow what a load of propaganda to give to your daughters because you want to CONTROL them. Never mind the natural forces that will occur.. and maybe the suicides that follow from the guilty feelings. Definitely messed up women anyway, if not suicide or drug addiction to escape the feelings of guilt (iv'e known many religious girls and the non religious grew up the most stable of all).
I hated my first kiss... sex was crap and painful and i wanted to just get it done so when I did meet the right guy (6 years later) it would be great.. and wow, it is. Perfect from the start cause we both know what we are doing, and wev'e both had our hearts broken and made mistakes.
Funnily enough his ex was a born-again christian and didn't wanna have sex before marriage... they had already of course but she decided no more. Of course she couldn't stop the healthy NATURAL urges we all have to "bear children" and have sex, but she would cry afterwards, making him feel terrible because of her own bs problems.. and was extremely messed up and had delusional episodes where she went crazy. Her father told her it was the devil, but she was suffering from mental paranoia...
and poor girl.. her dad sounds like a controlling christian a--hole who has put all this guilt and pressure on his daughter, who is 24.
Anyway I'm glad cause it destroyed what they had so he can be with me, but nonetheless iv'e heard stories about many people religion has messed up.
Are you mixing two stories here? I can't even tell who you're talking about here. People in the documentary or people from your own life.
Her dad sounded like a fantastic father, and one I'd like to immulate. His daughters truly loved him for his integrity and sincerety of heart. I wish there were many more like him in this world.
That's what Christianity does: transmutes the rich, fulfilling joys of Life into self-loathing, fears and guilt. And where children are involved, the virus gets passed on, thereby perpetuating the illness.
The death of religion will mark the birth of civilization.
The argument for this is comparable to stating that driving is dangerous, you can get hurt or killed, so you shouldn't drive at all, but then you would miss all the benefits that driving offers. Then again, I understand that these fathers don't want their daughters emotionally traumatized,mentally unstable or addicted.
THIS is what will make them traumatized, mentally unstable and addicted... the sexual feelings inside will appear and yeah you will feel so guilty, maybe turn to drugs.
The kiss thing is even taking it sooo far... why can't you at least KISS? f--k. These people are so lame and immature... it's human nature, we are just animals and supposed to procreate not starve ourselves of affection and ruin our childrens lives to control them.. sad
This comment of yours, here, sums up as best of any I've heard the tragic consequences of religion's perversions of sex and every other thing of beauty Life holds. People really do need to start speaking up against it, and your voice has not gone unheard.
"...addicted" to what?
sex,drugs & rock 'n roll
"sex, drugs & rock 'n roll?"
(a touch a Evil ain't bad, neither! :-))
The assertion is that America is the most religious nation in the Western world. But I think the statistics might be telling us something quite different.
Religious beliefs and practices in other industrialized Western nations seem more settled and less out of harmony with reality than in the United States and may, therefore, be passed over and go unaccounted for, flying under the radar, whereas in the United States nothing goes unnoticed.
Outside Northern Ireland, I know of not another place in the West where religious customs, practices and beliefs stand out in such stark relief against a backdrop of technological sophistication than that of the United States.
Though its most bizarre elements, taken individually, form always a smallish portion of the whole, taken together they reveal a disproportionate prevalence of disturbing patterns of an extreme, cult-like stature in America's religious culture. This documentary presents but, and yet, another case in point.
Perhaps America is not the most religious nation in the Western world.
Perhaps America is the last shamanistic nation in the Western world.
alot of Americans dont believe in evolution or climate change either. reality and religion usually dont go hand in hand.
@ Stephen Molinares
It is depressing, tragic and, frankly, dangerous how
religion ever the more lures America into darkness.
You've probably already seen it, but just in case,
I recommend a documentary here at TDF under
Society: 175. Why Do People Laugh at Creationists?
Another excellent such doc is to be found under
Science: 69. Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism.
It is obvious that that father is in love with his daughter and is jealous of any man who takes a fancy at her. These fathers are paedophiles and should be institutionalised!
You're revolting. I would shudder to be your love-starved daughter!
Why would the daughter be love starved, she would always have her father to look forward to..."Who's Your Daddy"
You are revolting!
My dad loves me, but he also respects me and that means a great deal more than him always seeing me as an object. Or as you put it, a piece of fruit in the garbage.
If my father ever compared my body to an "Old peach" id be very hurt. You shouldn't be allowed to have kids- thats child abuse (no, seriously it is).
Americans are doing their best to bring back the middle ages!
I tried but couldn't watch this. It embarrassed me as a man. Very obsessed creepy fathers delving into an area that is not their business.
Just wanted to add: As others have commented here, I'm sure that this is all based on good intentions. With this in mind I can only wish the best for all these young people in their future lives & relationships. Unfortunately it really is all based on a fairy tale & unrealistic expectations & is only a recipe for disaster. I was raised in an extremely fervent christian evangelical home with very similar ideals & expectations. This only ultimately resulted in disfunction, guilt & failed relationships. (For everyone in the family)
You have only to think of this issue as it should be; naturally. Women of our species are prepared to have sex and bare children after they have their period, and until they are menopausal. I understand it sounds sickening to think of in our culture - even to myself - but it is an anatomical fact, and truth. Unfortunately our societies and cultures generally are so out of touch with our natural state of being.
The difference between a "girl" and a "woman" by western terms is just that; culturally defined to fit the mold we feel it should, lacking in simple observation and overlooking plain understanding of ourselves as a species upon this earth. Obviously in this day and age - in the western culture - it would be near impossible for a 12 year old girl to raise a child successfully due to aspects of society which inhibit the young. Albeit in our instinctive state a 12 year old female would certainly be capable in every way to support, care for, nurture and teach her offspring. That being said, we are very social creatures, family oriented so others would always be there to lend a hand. The society and culture we westerners currently live in today supports an 'every man for himself' atmosphere which demeans the very caring, helpful and persistent species that we really are.
Well said! I couldn't agree more.
Maybe you're aware of him already, but if not, try a Youtube search for "Richard Manning on the psychosis of civilization", as I think you'll find what he has to say, very interesting.
Purity ball? Wow. These fathers are twisted. I don't have a daughter and everyone says how they dread their daughter dating but this is going way too far dads.
The father of the 11 year old scares the crap out of me. Spooky man!
TreeClub, can you imagine 'Purity Balls' for the boys?
1. I don't believe in purity.
2. When that guy talked about preserving his daughters' dignity, I kind of got what he was talking about. Young women are still largely objectified in our culture. I don't agree with what these people are doing, but it's not like mainstream culture has a particularly healthy view of sexuality either.
3. Agreed with the people who are wondering about the boys.
4. If my dad had gone on and on about how beautiful I was when I was a kid, I wouldn't have bought it. ALL parents think their kids are the most beautiful ever. Are these kids so unjaded that that hasn't occurred to them?
5. What's all this about princesses? None of these kids are princesses, and why should they be?
5 good points!
this was utterly sicking, well we see how religion plays a role in this twisted fairy tale, and looked what happened to the girl who got pregnant, she's has a great life and boyfriend who respects her and wants to be with her! I think they are setting their daughters up for the ultimate shock of the real world and how it will chew them up, and spit out the pieces it doesn't like!!
Got to the three minute mark, this is just wrong, all wrong, the fundamentalist religee,s have to be the most weirdest people on the planet!
This smacks to me of incest. Now they are using their gods to achieve what? will leave this to the imagination! Cant wait for their "rapture" to rid the planet of them.
Oh come on! Incest? I don't think so, more like veneration of one's own blood product.
Weird to think that this reminded me of a pot grow where the "females" are grown to remain "virgin" (unpollinated), and every now and then one is chosen to become a "mother" in order to produce "clones".
If you know anything about pot grow, you'll know what i am talking about.
Anyway....this movie was like a fairy tale to me, the dolls were replaced by real human being.
Yes, growing pot is all about keeping the girls from getting knocked up! Some of these fathers should take up the hobby. Then they can completely dominate the sexuality of their plants and take some pressure of their daughters. And after they smoke it, they just might realize how misguided they are.
Oh come on yourself! What kind of message do you think the fathers are giving to their daughters?
""Your heart belongs to Daddy""... If the fathers may not pursue, then the daughters just might? They believe it or not have sexual feelings! "Oedipus Complex" which is inherent in all children. Again I say this is all wrong!
A daughter that has a good relationship with her dad (snuggles and hugs and kisses and dances) etc. will not give herself away before marrage as easily as one that's been deprived of physical contact with her dad. Oh, and by the way, I read statistially that the men that sexually abuse their children also happen to be the men that have the LEAST physical contact with them otherwise in day to day activities. Truth.
I suppose the father's message is: No one is as good as me unless he is Prince Charming....and then imagine how much control the father must continue having after the wedding!
I think the concept of prince/princess charming is a very damaging one.
This doc just provides more evidence that the USA as a country is mentally ill.
True enough! Dawkin's says that religion is a disease of the mind. I fully agree!
this is so crazy I only got to the 4:35 mark ok its sick also
research shows that girls that take the abstinence pledge are twice as likely to have oral sex (including anal) - now where were these pledges when i was in high school?
like everyone, kids find loopholes. 2 to be exact
"...twice as likely to have oral sex (including anal)...
...where were these pledges when i was in high school?"
You're right, Jose. It's a real downer.
They should of thought of this a long time ago.
What I really want to say, no doubt would be edited, but it's tempting.
So, I'll sum it up this way, what a bunch of hypocrite's............
Great site though!!!
Marc B. Greenwald
Leave two consecutive comments, one that says it all and the
other, the 'Mr. Clean' version. You never know. The real one
might just make it through. (lol)
I really can't explain why this doc. makes me want to throw up. I am sick of religion, Its hypocritical values...
Religions are values void. That they then preach 'values' is what makes them all so hypocritical.
I think this thing is a mixed bag. First, there's not equality between genders, like why would the boys be still pure even if they're sleeping around all over the place.
I think this thing is something with good intentions that is taken a bit too far in a slightly weird way. The father daughter relationship is a slight bit weird, I'd be more comfortable if the mothers were talking to their daughters about this stuff and not the father.
I understand their religious point of view. They don't want to see their daughters walking around half naked and sleeping around with a bunch of guys or whatever, acting like a bunch of sluts like is more and more common nowadays, but this seems like an overreaction. And it seems strange to introduce girls to this concept when they aren't even teenagers yet. They did seem a bit young to really even understand this stuff.
I found it very interesting that the father's of these daughters were so concerned about their daughters virginity when it comes to marriage later on. Surprised because I just assumed that this would be more of a mother's role.
I don't why I found this documentary a little creepy because it seems to be focused on everything wholesome and who can complain about that. Nethertheless I was unable to watch the whole thing because it just came across as so weird and bizarre.
I too have an 11 year old daughter and to be honest I would like her to have a sexually fulfilled life before and after marriage. Safe sex though. There is nothing wrong with sex as it takes practice to get good at it.
And if children result out of this sexual experimentation, then it is just another child to love and take care of.
Because so much emphasis is placed on these girls to be pure and their father relationships strong, what happens if they cannot stay virgins or their father relationships break down due to divorce?
How much will these girls be loved then? Perhaps this is why I found the documentary to be disturbing.
Teaching the young girls to make wise decisions in life seems to be the best approach.
And don't forget that it was quite normal for girls to be married off at 13 years only 100 years ago. In Russia I think the gypsy children are married off as young as 9 years. Every society and time is different.
To learn of all the virign balls in the United States was very surprising. Interesting how life has changed in only 100 years.
This is utterly disgusting and sick. :-((
Religion is utterly disgusting and sick. :-((
this is sick - focus on their brains, not their genitals. if you educate people they will make good decisions, regardless of purity.
Unfortunately, I don't think religion and brains go together.
Da na-na-na, na-na, na-na, my dad's a supercreep, supercreep, he's supercreeping meee
That's inspired, dude. Nice job!
to me it just shows the lack of smarts of the christian nation. By assumming that they are unable to figure out a way to be unselfish and level headed to raise children properly and create proper methods to do so.... they fail and instead create brainwashed sexually anxious lil'monsters.
Xtians fear to think.
A snaky devil's sneaky trick of luring one into eating of the forbidden fruit of the forbidden tree of the forbidden knowledge of that which would rid them of their forbidding faith.
Don't I wish!
Creep-o-rama! I totally appreciate the whole "girls go through an awkward stage - need Dad to reassure" thing - having been one of those myself and having several friends who sought "affirmation" out side the home (creep number 1 - Daddy lets me know I am desirable opposed to worthy - granted a fine line) BUT to make that contingent on no kissing or sex = no dating for most is wrong.
If it is about picking the right man - you have to mess up some before you know what works (and I DO NOT mean physical stuff here) and what is bad for you. But if divorce isn't aloud - well you stick it out or kill them and drive the kids to Florida...
Creep factor 2 - what if Dad is not a great guy and you are totally imprinted on him? Christian does not always equal non-abusive (emotionally or otherwise) - they really are just like everyone else - well except for evangelicals - they can definitely suspend reality like few others.
CF-3 Where are the boys? Do mom and dad make their virginity a requirement to feel like a "prince" in their hearts and not give VD to the Virgin daughters of others? If not, why is it okay for the non-virgin guys to "commit adultery" (before you are even married to your pre-destined spouse - hey it could only work in the minds of the Protestant...) with misguided christian/non-christian?
CF-4 Girl goes to college - gets drunk and screws up - KISSES a guy...parents disown and flaming pits of hell awaits? Not exactly a self-esteem builder.
Why drag virginity and God into it - why not just encourage Dads to be supportive and involved in their daughters life and tell them all the things those men said at the purity ball with out the audience? Oh yeah...no audience...
well said best post ive read in awhile
I really 'dug' your take on Evangelicals.
I was Catholic-destroyed, and I thought that was the limit.
But I was wrong. I hadn't known Evangelicals.
Boy, was I ever wrong!
I think this is a little sick myself. Why are fathers controlling their daughter's genitals, but not sons?? These girls are being set up for major disappointments when the husband doesn't treat them like "little princesses". A girl should be confident in herself, not looking to Daddy for every little approval. Just yikes. Can you say Co-Dependence and Enmeshment?
completely true! no one has purity balls (lol) for boys! the whole idea of virginity resting solely on the woman and the boys getting to sow wild oats is hilarious. it takes two to tango, people XD
Society doesn't think of boys as pure, it thinks of boys as horny in nature.
And guess what, Azilda.
I do not think that the fathers are much interested in their sons genitals per this doc. Sons will be allowed to roam free and rut, and lo and behold the very thing that the fathers fear the most may happen, the free roaming sons of others, religious or not, will impregnate their virtuous virgin daughters, ripe for the picking. This world is composed of equilibrium, cant be top heavy with virgin girls, a level will be achieved. "Entropy"
Boys will be boys!
And girls remain virgins?
DOES NOT COMPUTE.
I believe they have the concept of purity skewered. Purity is of heart, being good to those around you - even those that have hurt you - to see and treat everyone as an individual ..... it's not some fantasy idea of only kissing one man in your life. How horrible to think purity can be brought down by just one kiss. Silly fathers afraid to let their girls ever grow into women.
I taught my daughters (no son, but a 1st new grand son).
The less people have the effect of hurting you and the less you have an effect of hurting others (to them), the closer you are getting to purity from anxiety and self doubt.
Sex does not make you unpure but it may make you plurial.
Sex is the physical way to find the non physical in a fun way.
Seems pretty reasonable to me (having watched part 1).
Ignoring religion there are logical and moral (moral is always subjective).
And parents have a right to teach their children there beliefs and there is no reason not to start young.
Also of course they should have balls and get together, obviously like minded people will need to congregate at some point because it other parents going to purity balls will be the best choice to find potential marriage material for your daughter.
And there is no reason not to draw support from people going through similar things that you are going through.
Parents have absolutely no rights at all to teach their children their, especially religious beliefs, It will be another nation coming up of fundamentalist brainwashed religious fruitcake brain dead zombies.
And as for their daughters, saving it, good luck, girls want sex as much as the boys. Maybe the girls then will have to resort to battery operated "things".
The young should not be allowed in church until they're old enough to drink. And there should be an ID check at the door!
oz...you make me laugh!
"until they're old enough to drink" ...and every one should be allow to smoke a joint in church, it opens one's spiritual view of the inscrutable ways of life it self.
Azilda, you're just terrible!
You can only be 'old enough to drink' because prohibition was repealed. Had I added 'old enough to smoke pot', then there'd
be no age limit under which churchgoing would be illegal ?
and that would be just awful.
A churchgoing permit requirements are: for girls, a comprehensive psychodiagnostics to make sure that their problem could not have been solved with a pocket rocket... and for boys....well....a trip to Bangkok.
At Oz: That's already a law . . . in Communist China! I think children should never be read "Heather has Two Mommies" in gradschool, either and come home with thier books in rainbow bags either (all without parental concent). You raise your kids, and I'll raise mine.
In grade school I think 'Heather has Two Mommies' should be required reading for all schoolchildren. It is important for children to learn as early on as possible that there are many family constellations now as indeed there always have been throughout human history.
Children who do have two mommies will know they, too, are welcome members in the family of humanity and childhood
friends will take for granted that any and every loving family
is as potentially good as it can be filled with fun!
Knowledge is light.
"You raise your kids, and I'll raise mine."
Pack yours off to some xtian concentration school.
That your right.
And Just what is so wrong with Ever Ready batteried tools that take a licking and keep on ticking?
Backwards??? Today girls are getting pregnant, venereal diseases, playing dangerous sex games and have no self worth if it isn't sexually related before junior high. What is so wrong with waiting until they are mature enough to handle a sexual relationship and all the consequences?
Backwards??? ? Yes! Backwards!!!
Obviously everybody here thinks that 12 year olds should be playing with regular toys at that age...not sex toys.... and if they are not doing so, it is a problem of the environment created by parents....and the solution/prevention is not castrating them of the opportunity of enjoying their lives to the fullest and learning about their nature because of religious shame and fear.
That's exactly what I meant
Obviously everybody here thinks that 12 year olds should be playing with regular toys at that age...not sex toys.... and if they are not doing so, it is a problem of the environment created by parents....and the solution/prevention is not castrating them of the opportunity of enjoying their lives to the fullest and learning about their nature because of religious shame and fear.
Sometimes Humanity goes backwards. So, these people want to have a healthy wholesome life by denying a huge part of themselves. This is castration in the most literal sense; not so much far from female circumcision.
Purity doesn't come by chopping off true parts of one's essence. We are bodies, we need to live through them as well, not deny them. Sex is such a beautiful and creative part of us, what is unpure and dirty about it?
This is sick. God bless them anyway.
Diego, what is a girl denying herself at 11, 12, 13, 14? Children who aren't even old enough to drive are victims of predators everyday. Ask yourself if this is the life you want for YOUR daughters.
It is one thing for a girl to deny herself, quite another for
the 'Man of the House' to do it for her!
Sis1958, what is a 'bro' denying himself at 11, 12, 13, 14?
'Dudes' who aren't even old enough to drive are victims of predators everyday. Ask yourself if this is the life you want
for YOUR sons.
The Rocky Horror Double-Standard Creepshow!
The life I want for my daughters is one that allows them to know and enjoy life for themselves, using the best possible knowledge. Children are sexually active even before 11, 12, 13, 14. If they accept Sex and understand it, instead of denying it, and I don't mean they should go out there and shag anyone, they will lead a healthy life, and probably won't fall prey of your "predators".
It's always easier to forbid ( which, by the way, only feeds morbid interest ) than to an-knowledge and explain.
And where is the pledge for boys, funny enough?
Do boys/men make these vows also.............??? Finish high school, learn a trade and make a life for yourself ladies.
Actually, some men do.
They're called priests, and
you know where that leads!
No, fu*k, and be fu*ked, is definitely the way to go.
That wasn't sensory_1's point. He was saying that many boys/men have similar "vows" and pressures put on them.
@sensory_1 Finish high school? like High School from Finland??? lol
Mmmmmm,slighty disturbing in my own opinion . The relationship father/daughter is a bit OTT, "incestuous" in a kind of way .Didn't watch it all though . What's gonna happen to these girls if they "stray " . Are they gonna be rejected by their parents ? Some of them also look way too young to be taking such vows .
Anyway , not my cup of tea , too "unhealthy" for my liking.
Good luck... this is a 100% feminist and religious view. Marriage itself is a flawed institution. Marriage was born from ARRANGED marriages by 'Royal' ultra rich people.
Imagine you marry someone and then sleep with them only to learn the 'chemistry' just is not going to work out. Life is too complicated to know who is best for you. The only way to know is to jump in and go...
When divorce comes as a result of no chemistry lawyers get money for the fees and there you have it.
I havent even watched the film yet but can tell you before I do that this is definitely not a feminist view. True Feminism supports equal ops for both genders and would definitely not support differences in that. Feminism views sex as something that should be enjoyed by both genders without the woman being called a name and the man being given a pat on the back. Please do not even use the word religion in the same context as feminism as they are totally in opposition
As I said to @TinaBr, above, maybe Matt meant to say something other than what 'popped out'(no pun intended!).
Matt, you're 100% right about the religious aspect, but sooooooo very off about the feminism. This is NOT feminism. Feminists want the complete opposite - being able to choose our partners and whether or not to have sex or abortion (not Daddy's or the church's choice), enjoy gender equality, and be raised as independent, educated, free-thinking members of society. Google "feminism" for more info. :)
You are so right.
Matt's statement was, otherwise, sensible and insightful. I almost think Matt got his terms mixed up and meant to say something quite different than "feminist."
P.S.: You know, if Matt weren't so damned cute,
I'd never give'm the benefit of the doubt.
i think you meant male chauvinism view instead of feminism there?
How does this reflect a feminist viewpoint? This is exactly the opposite of what feminism stands for.
For the record this is not feminist at all. This movie places all the importance of a young woman's sexuality on the man and IF this woman was to break this covenant she will bring shame on him and his family and in turn she feels ashamed as well. Even if she thinks of a man or his male body part she is ashamed. Feminism is about female empowerment. This is not female empowerment at all, this is about suppression through religion and unrealistic ideas of what a father should do for his daughter.