The Four Horsemen
8.72
Ratings: 8.72/10 from 140
users.
On the 30th of September 2007, Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens sat down for a first-of-its-kind, unmoderated 2-hour discussion, convened by RDFRS and filmed by Josh Timonen.
All four authors have recently received a large amount of media attention for their writings against religion - some positive, and some negative.
In this conversation the group trades stories of the public reaction to their recent books, their unexpected successes, criticisms and common misrepresentations.
They discuss the tough questions about religion that face the world today, and propose new strategies for going forward.
Logic and reason is no competition to beliefs and feeling (with a voice).
OR
Logic and reason has little appeal to ideologs influencing or with judicial discretion.
OR
a layperson has no posture to challenge any form of deity.
UNLESS you have a huge bag of money or a bigger stick.
Sometimes reality sucks or one can just deny it then you don't have to deal with it.
Hmmmmm!
No, they 've gone sour---small minded dogmatiques dismissing and deriding (because they themselves lack experiences of the Divine?) cultural traditional interpretations of the mystical experience with Nature--i.e. man's connectedness with his cosmos. Deny the very nature of Homo? What would Joseph Campbell say to that?
These four discuss religion and atheism quite well. I will view this more than once.
Long ago I was selected for a felony jury, a murder case. Sequestered. We jurors argued much. The second day of our deliberations, a woman, a retiree, knitting when not reading romance novels, firmly and loudly declared: "Last night I had a dream, a vision, an epiphany, that God told me 'No matter what I voted here, God would fix it in the end.' So, I vote guilty, and the death penalty. For if I am wrong, I know God will forgive me." Being atheist, believing and realizing there is no God, never has been a God, and never will be a God, in any number of form. I hung this jury, but not the accused.
This sort of thinking frightens me, scares me, stuns me, amazes me.
To realize how many were sent to their deaths by such people...
“In our world, surely the worst thing anyone can say is, ‘No further inquiry is needed, you’ve already got all you need to know.’ It is the most sinister and dangerous thing.” – Christopher Hitchens
Stick theses guys during and exorcism and let's see how fast they'll be praying. Heck make them watch the movie the conjuring! I bet they'll be asking God into their lives.
Hi Vlatko, I guess you're the person who runs this site cause I see people thanking you for it all the time. I would like to thank you too as I watch films on here a lot.
I haven't watched this one yet but I've taken to reading the comments for information and entertainment when I don't have time to watch the film. While reading the comment thread this morning I felt compeled to post a comment myself. when I left the house it said it was awaiting moderation. Upon arriving home I looked to see if anyone commented on my comment and I don't find it posted at all.
I'm a little curious as to the criteria you use to "moderate" the comments. Did my comment not come thru? Did I need to leave the page open while awaiting approval? Being that I made an observation about the amount of disrespect, meanness and blatant insults that constitute the bulk of the comments I might infer that you purposely choose to post comments that cause people to fight with each other and call each other names rather than comments that might actually foster respectful discussion between people who don't agree with one another. Is that how you moderate or am I missing something?
And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen, an endless stream of combative comments where people assert the rightness of their own perspective by bashing, insulting and degrading the opposing view's positions based on the human construct of religion or the compartmentalized science they treat as gospel. And you wonder why people have been killing each other for thousands of years over borders and religions. Opiate of the masses, indeed. And don't for a minute try to say it's human nature because it's not. Human nature is no different than animal nature at its core. The disrespect and blatant meanness inherent in too many of these comments is a conditioned human response to disagreement based on a competitive, me first, I have to win and beat you down as a loser mindset that has become the cornerstone of "civilized" human society. Would that we were all one species, making our home and living on the same interconnected planet, moving thru the same experiences of joy, grief, fear and wonder and able to reach out to one another with new and differing ideas with open minds and hearts and the ability to consider a new perspective of information or experience without judgment. Yeah, kind of a tall order, ain't it. I guess we'll just have to keep searching thru space for intelligent life.
As for me, I'm a Pagan. A devoted Goddess worshiper whose deity is a real organism that keeps ALL of us alive. I call Her Gaia or Mother but regardless of the moniker She is the reason we all stay alive every day. Religious zealots, humble seekers and atheists alike. Personally, I think all of you need to go outside and lay on the ground looking up at the sky and contemplate the vast and unimaginable complexity that makes up the Universe where every blade of grass and every star is made of the same substances. And check your religious and scientific egos at the door as you go out. If you read enough you'll find that quantum physicists still don't fully understand what they're studying. Bottom line, nobody knows anything for sure. Methinks the world might be better served to start there and have open, honest, respectful discussion about amazingly complex ideas rather than lower ourselves to calling each other names because we don't agree.
Imagine.......
Religion is nothing but a tool. In this case, a tool for influencing, constraining and directing people. Like any tool it can be used for good and for evil and is almost always used for both (according to the human nature of the men from which religions spring).
It has created a great living for many men, accumulated a ton of political power and launched a massive number of wars and conquests. On the other hand, it has also undoubtedly led to a considerable amount of charity. These things all could have come to pass in the absence of religion, but they certainly have happened A LOT due to religion.
...so you don't bring confusion and hate to ours
Grow up! Do you know and have a relationship with Jesuschrist? Isn't it nice to have the freedom of writing whatever nonsense you want because our nation was shaped by Judeo-Christians' values and believes of love and compassion?! Men like you should be move to a atheist nation so you don't confusion and hate to ours.
The problem is less religion than the fundamentalists who use religion as a tool to spread hate and gain power, status and money.
Chris Hedges owned Hitchens and Harris - on an objective debate scale...they might have won audiences with emotional pandering and strawmen beating. After watching those debates, I would classify Hitchens and Harris as fundamentalist atheists, promoting hate and violence against their fellow humans.
Sigh.
Here is my arguement, as a qualified scientist, I've witnessed events, which are miraculous, for which there is no scientific, medical, or even logical explanation, apart from God.... this is not provable, but it is believable... a man with experience is never at the mercy of a man with knowledge....
this is why we cannot prove our mothers love us or hate us....
stalin, hitler, mao, pott, atheists, and killed over 100 million people in the 20th century....
what people might do in the name of religion isnt the same as in the name of God, no matter how much you or they say it is
Interestingly, the Four Horsemen are not nearly as scintillating when preaching to the choir (so to speak) than any one of them are when taking apart a religious opponent and demolishing their arguments.I will never tire of watching Hitch destroying his opponents. He was the grand master.
A bit repetitive, but nonetheless interesting points of view.
RIP Christopher. I will miss your insight, even if nobody else will.
RIP, and I always will hold dear a classic quote of his...'If you gave ( enter any religee you want) an enema he/she could be buried in a matchbox."
My condolence to Hitchens family, friends & fellow atheists.
Goodbye Mr Hitchens :(
Qur'an is not a science journal that you flip through and see if it has to say something about everything in specific terms. If there is no mention of dinosaurs or cockroaches that does not mean they do not exist.
EQUALITY!
Please elaborately give your definition of the term - "Equality" ?
then
Talk about your understanding of "Equality between Man & Woman" ?
& then
Lets talk about what Islam says..Alright?
EMBRYOLOGY!
Before talking to general public about your views about embryology and proving what you think is right... please do the following favors to yourself:
1) Please talk to a doctor about it.
2) Write and publish a paper on embryology in a publicly recognized Science Journal.
3) Submit a copy to the Nobel Society in Sweden about your research discovery of Aristotle mentioning about embryology in all the detailed fashion that you think he did
4) Do Not wait for any Nobel prize or any recognition for I assure you wont receive any.
5) Based on the documentary evidence of the paper you have submitted to a recognized organization or science Journal, please file a law suit against the person - Dr. Maurice Bucaille who researched and claimed about the Qur'anic reference to the human re-production cycle matching with that of scientific discoveries.
And finally if you win the law suit, you can surely rub it on the face of Muslims that the Qur'an is false. Until then do not give your personal opinion and go around shouting that what you say is fact!
And if you think you are incapable of proving your point in the above manner, then shut-up ridiculing others whether they are Christian, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist or whoever!
I enjoyed listening to these gentlemen discuss/debate religion. Sam Harris asked if it was important that he equally criticized all religion or if just addressing the dangerous ones. My answer is this: It is important to address the aspects of religion that cause the most suffering and death.
It is equally important to realize that seemingly benign religions often inflict suffering on women and children. For example, the teachings of Christianity and Islam that direct women to submit to their husbands as the church submits to god has all sorts of negative and harmful effects on women in their local communities. Another example is the common religious practice of corporal punishment. Extreme corporal punishment practices are often found in fundamentalist group. However, corporal punishment, even used infrequently, causes unnecessary suffering for children.
I realize the two examples I offer are highly controversial with each side claiming to know the truth. My point is that both examples inflict shaming and intrusions on people who often are unable to protect themselves. I'm not trying to prove anything here. Rather to say we should not ignore aspects of religion because it appears to be benign from the outside. We need to openly discuss the harmful effects of all religions.
Within 5 minutes of video, you sin.....look at the footage.... It's absolutely impossible, therefore to talk about Yahushua. You have NO defense whatsoever in representing HIM.
It is kind of funny...
People are such fools that they are not aware how to even abuse in a literate manner!!! Just like their Masters...
The most funny bit here is, the abuses & abusers are selectively Warned & Censored...Some talks are simply not taken because they do not agree with the privilege few, If these abusers, their supporters & their promoters ever got breast fed by their mothers I hope they will return with sound reasonable arguments instead of shamelessly parading themselves as psychological disturbed bas**rds who had an upbringing in an uncivilized group of criminals or hooligans...
However Better luck next time...
WoW....It is more evident than ever where Atheism is heading...
The Prophets of Atheism are un-sure of what they want & what they would do if there is an Atheist Society or actually if there comes in existence the Zeitgeist World...However this unsure group of Prophets in their own belief of Atheism make the whole discussion funny by going forward and defining how they want the Christians, their favorites - Muslims must behave!!! I think they were Drunk while they spoke all this crap...
What they really want is a hedonistic society but they wont call it so they call it the Zeitgeist world....A Deception
These Atheist Prophets will define how the Christians or muslims should be like, ridiculously funny...According to them this is what one can summarize:
Christians - All your rituals, traditions, customs, architecture everything is beautiful -- but, but the spiritual belief behind this - the emotion that you attach is well...bull___. Remove the spirit do everything else...How dangerous & Hollow are the Prophets of Atheism - Disgusting!!! and they think they are not being totalitarian
Islam - same fate or probably worse then Christians...ofcourse why not - because Islam shakes the very base of any belief. Islam must be exterminated. But we wont do so, because we are peace loving people we will only spread hatred, discord among people, make the whole world scared about Islam & Muslims(What the media is successfully doing) & simply formulate policies that on any suitable pretext enter muslim houses & destroy them... Venomous Prophets of Atheism.
Such are the Prophets of Atheism...and indeed their followers are equally worse...
Maybe they could do something like this again and leave Christopher Hitchens out. I like Hitchens well enough, but he doesn't like to share a stage. He is also more interested in debate and conflict than problem solving, which I find frustrating.
This is what it is and no more 4 guys sat down having a chat and trying to understand the world we live in .Something we have all done one time or another its just maybe these guys use science and common sense.!!
I do not know if there is a god nor do i care .
There is something called choice and free will .
The more we talk the better we all are