This Is What Winning Looks Like

This Is What Winning Looks Like

2013, Military and War  -   97 Comments
Ratings: 8.56/10 from 282 users.

This is a disturbing, new documentary about the ineptitude, drug abuse, sexual misconduct, and corruption of the Afghan security forces as well as the reduced role of US Marines due to the troop withdrawal.

In part one, we see just how chaotic and hopeless the situation is in Sangin, one of the most violent towns in Afghanistan.

In part two, we see on-the-ground footage of fighting between the Afghan forces and the Taliban as well as insightful commentary from the documentary's producer, Ben Anderson.

There are also exclusive interviews with the US Ambassador and the British Deputy Ambassador to Afghanistan about the prospect of peace in the region.

In part three, we see that the sad truth is, at the end of the day, we will be leaving behind ill-prepared security forces, which will likely lead to an increase in Taliban attacks, civilian casualties, and, overall, an increasingly dangerous and fragile nation.

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97 Comments / User Reviews

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  1. Irvan

    Well the taliban taking over now in 2021 was expected as shown in this documenatry

  2. Wade

    This smells like Vietnam 2.0

  3. NA

    hahahahahahah the proper fighters aren't shown on this doc and won't accept the help of the Americans. They don't need it. Afghans think Americans are a joke (for many reasons which I won't go into) which is why they don't take the American help seriously.

    Also, what the heck is the point of telling the Afghans that they are committing crimes by capturing others? THEY DON'T CARE!!!!!!!

    If the West really want to help, they should start with investing in education so that the children can be raised with empathy and so that the people can become compliant.

  4. phillip kalaveras

    My theory: Afghanistan supply's about 90% of the world's Opium. Before we arrived the Taliban was busy eradicating the Opium Poppy from Afghanistan and doing a good job of it too. We arrived in 2001. In the following 9 years, Opium production surged 100x what they were. Recording all-time record harvests beginning around 2010.

    During the time Opium production was being ramped up in Afghanistan. Mexico and South America were retooling their ability to convert ever larger supplies of Opium into increasingly potent Heroin and developing new infrastructure to transport it.

    Now during the decade or so all this was going on in Afghanistan and South America, scripts here in America for Oxycontin, Fentanyl, Hydrocodone and the like were widely available to any person claiming chronic pain. Nothing was done to confirm the claims of pain. Basically, scripts were available to almost anyone for the asking. The size of the scripts was insane, scripts for 200 even 400 pills a month were common. So one script supported the habit of 10 people and having multiple doctors was not uncommon either. The ones receiving all these pills did not know it at the time but they were being groomed.
    It all came to a sudden end one day in 2011.

    Almost overnight The Oxycontin and Fentanyl was turned into useless plastic and scripts all across the country were shut down with the exception of those few in truly chronic pain. Picture this; Hundreds of thousands of years long opiate addictions going cold-turkey on the streets of America. Well, that didn't happen because.. Simultaneously, seemingly overnight as if by magic every city in America suddenly had a fresh humongous supply of high quality very affordable Heroin. It was everywhere, I'm telling you it went from scarce to being on every street corner in America and the prices have never been lower and the quality never higher.

    A coincidence?? ........I don't think so!!!!

    America is and has been since we took the crown from England in the middle of the 20th century the biggest dope pushers on the planet. We make an un-godly amount of money doing this and today we make 100X more than we did in 2000. Many often wonder why we are in a country of stone age people with no resources... same reason 47 other countries from around the globe all have a small contingent of soldiers in Afghanistan with us... keeping a finger in the pie and cutting the Taliban out. If you recall only one country was in Iraq with us but 47 followed us into Afghanistan? Come on now, just how stupid are we? (rhetorical) If you think we are there because we care about the ass-backwards, woman beating, child raping Afghanistan people you are "spoon fed stupid" and probably voted for Hillary.

    Here of late China and India have been cashing in on our self-made addiction with their own knockoffs of Oxycontin and Fentanyl and they're making a killing... the body count grows every day.

    1. Joel higgins

      Damn you nailed it

  5. Daoud M Ahmady

    In 2001 USA made huge mistake instead of given power to Northern Alliances, G Bush put Taliban ( Karzai )back to power Karzai & Ghani are terrorist government
    Massoud was not a War Lord and this is absolutely lie !!!!
    Massoud defended his country against Russia, Pakistan & Taliban

  6. Raz

    The ignorance of people is widespread. It shocks me to know that most people in US actually believe we were the "good guys" in any war during the second half of the twentieth century.

  7. CitizenX

    Amazing - in the midst of never-ending violence, famine, rampant sexual perversion, and all the other horrors, they continuously thank a god. If that's what I got from my god, I'd be getting a new one. Greed, religion, and an insatiable quest for power. The big three flaws of most men.

  8. CitizenX

    Disgusting, disturbing, sickening and sad. The sins of the United States government. Bush, Evil-Dick Cheney, Goofy Rumsfeld, and quite a few others needs to be in prison, or my choice, executed for war crimes. With the bad Karma they've got going on, I'd imagine most of the D.C. scum will come back as pubic lice on the bodies of these child rapists. Yep, you too Hillary. Trump, I guess he's already in his own personal Hell.

  9. lindenfrank

    we're not leaving because we achieved anything...THANK YOU DUMBO BUSH

  10. Ronny- Bangalore

    Nice doc there Vice. There are somethings the ISAF is missing in it's implementations, comparing how 'complex systems' like this had law and order brought in other parts of the world.

    Example: In India, with 27 different states with different cultures and sub cultures, 50 years ago when we seriously started implementing law and police and post office and things we did a few good implementation methodologies. Like the military recruits from the South of the country would train and get deployed in the North or East or West of the country. Reason being, same state deployment will create emotional problems for the soldier to shoot or fire at people of his own state or own tribe. Same we did with police officers, it helped in assimilation of the Army into a well mixed soup of men willing to fight for their country than their own state or tribe.

    In Afghanistan, ISAF could deploy new recruits from the north to the south and vice versa.

    One more implementation issues is to start certain institutions in town centers. Like a post office, fair price shops (Where govt supplied food grains are provided to the general public like a grocery store on a monthly basis at just above the cost price)

    Kabul needs some special institutions like:
    1. Civil Servants recruitment and Training
    2. Public transport and general automobile and driving license issuing authorities, or regional transport offices
    3. Public or mobile healthcare- on a very district to district level
    4. Drug enforcement civil servants- (It is a failure in public administration if you call the army for every simple daily local issue, example being failure in Africa in public administration is coz of this)
    5. Record Keeping institute- Be whatever records are kept, start keeping one and start a institute for it.

    We in India with 4000 odd languages and 10000 plus subcultures/tribes in 1947 have transformed our complex system this way. We arent perfect here but we could give a lot to the ISAF wrt to dealing with implementation issues.


  11. Paceman

    Taliban must be rubbing their hands together at the allied withdrawal.
    The place is doomed.
    I feel sorry for guys like that Afghan commander who was really good and having a go. Serving his country with pride unlike so many of his corrupt, drug addict, pedophile, revolting contemporaries.

    Great doco

    1. lindenfrank

      wasn't it DOOMED two hundred years ago? same old scare tactics...always...the domino effect never dies does it? but does it ever happen? HELL NO

  12. Blue Clue

    Unbelievable, really.
    After watching's pathetic.

    1. lindenfrank

      a sham and a ruse...manufactured by GW dumbo BUSH and his cohorts in CRIME/war crimes and yet the RELIGIOUS RIGHT continues to SUCK AT THEIR TIT

  13. Assaf Koss

    This goes to show that culture, a process of change through many generations, is not something that can be copy & pasted on people. Give them guns, and direct them to fend off aggressors, and they will fail, simply because they can't relate to this "bigger picture".

    This documentary shows a nightmare, in which sand, poverty, abuse, and death are the norm.

  14. kelliekareen

    You cant help people who aren't willing to help themselves.

    1. lindenfrank


  15. Eric Lawson

    A very informative Doc. Right to the truth !!!!

  16. Richard Passley

    The Afghan fighters face @ the beginning of the film looks like Carlos Tevez. Just saying..............

  17. Richard Neva

    America had no business there. Just part of the war machinery that brought us there!

    1. lindenfrank

      WE I repeat WE ARE NOT the world's police force....put an end to that thought once and for all...HAVEN'T WE LEARNED anything from CANADA SWEDEN and neutral countries...who gives a damn if we're looked on as WEAK...I don't give a sh#t anymore

  18. David Simon Safir

    How can people watch complex documentaries such as this one, and then produce such long, yet monofaceted comments such as I've read below?

    This film is a mere peer into the complex nation, and does not in itself consider many important issues, such as the cost of the American presence and long range issues, it's very focused on the immediate problems, and immediate problems of this location, it does not always consider some of the end game goals, it merely lets us see some of the real problems within the bubble that it is film, not including problems abroad, of the area as is, such as political deception, corruption, inability to relate to the populace, lack of education, etc. Remember - This documentary is a tool for your education, not the final word.

    1. sliceAndDice

      Because we're sooooo much dumber than you.

    2. Assaf Koss

      It's not a "game" in any way shape or form, and making the analogy shows that you lack sympathy with these people, who are being used and abused by all sides. Simple farming people.

  19. fzefzefqf

    You could at least give us the realisator's name otherwise what's the point of the website just make a youtube playlist...........

  20. david stewart

    The truth is disgusting to see our politicians allow these beasts pedophile scumbags run the show in there own little kingdoms IE their tiny wee bases to rape and plunder to their filthy hearts content and when good dedicated moral soldiers report it what happens NOTHING.
    Does no one see that because of this filth as soon as we pull out our troops fully the taliban [to whom we have lost hundreds of brave British servicemen and our American allies indeed lots of allies] will take right over within weeks maybe months, without a settlement in which the pastuns are willing to join the ANA,then its civil war game over if these norther alliance soldiers were to actually stop raping boys and treat the people with respect then pastuns might have joined up i mean the army leader when told by the American major about the chai boys basically said of course they will do this filth obviously he cant say anything because hes at it himself SHAME ON US for allowing it if we promised to give them no more toys to play with pull out before trying to train them up leave them to the hated Taliban they would soon think about more than whats in there pants.

  21. A H

    USA should agree that they turned a functioning nation into the s hit ho le and the whole NATO is proud of it ...... on the second look they do exactly same in every country they try to help Iraq, Libya, Syria, Mali you name it ...... NOW Taliban is the only hope for Afghans and even Enemies acknowledge that.

    1. E BUCK

      Not defending the US per se, but to consider Afghanistan a functioning nation, government or economy - going to back to possibly before the '79 Soviet invasion - is a stretch. And Libya, Syria, Mali? These are countries with internal struggles between military regimes and rebel uprisings, which will go on with or without tacit American support of one side or the other. No argument on Iraq, but it doesn't seem like you're being very objective when it comes to America's role in some of these countries or that they would be disasters regardless of US involvement.

  22. Nicholas Hewlett

    Unbelievabily disfunctional . I know it is war but it appears the american forces are being led up the garden path and they know it and cant do anything about it,Unbelievablely dumb !!

  23. therapy

    major bill steuber enables child molesters. he deserves a prestigious job at the department of homosexual land security with wonderful benefits after he retires from the no-combat us military.

  24. urban deadite

    Love how most of these comments go on about corruption in 'other' countries, usa is one of the most corrupt countries on Earth, but the victors and rich countries write the rules and are better equipped to 'hide' these facts.
    There is a lot of delusional people out there.

    1. madzukas

      USA is not even trying to hide corruption, lobbyism is legal
      and according laws.

  25. Madhav Krishna U

    If the ISAF forces leave the country in the hands of these stoned soldiers and police the country will return to 2001 and may be more in to past. . . . .The only country thats gonna benefit from this situation is pakistan, so that it can have terror schools run by its ISI and export terror across world.

  26. DJ

    real insite to the muslim culture... I guess some cultures will live in eternity in sh*tholes like the middle east, arabia,central asia and persia

  27. Zack Sokolowski

    Thieves and child molesters. It seems like its a big joke

    to them. They remind me of a bunch of kids playing army in the backyard. Just popping off rounds cause they think its fun, all stoned with shit eatin grins on their faces. They dont seem to take theyre countries plight very serious. They just want free shit. What are we doing there? That money could be put to good use back here in the good ol USA. We should cut our losses and get the hell out and let em sort it out on there own Leave em some tooth brushes and soap thats about it..... SAD!

  28. Tony Rossini

    What a total clusterf--k. That's going to end up being no better than it was back in 2001. Corruption is rife...all the way to the top. Democracy can't work there.

  29. chip griffin

    there should be utter shame on the americans part. you have walked in and try to buy a country one man at a time. this is the great whore. i would walk off with my head held down, this is what my country has become. just damn. just damn. you brought your god to their world. the taliban is a ghost just like obama the american, neither are real, but foreigners with no home, sword to defend no one. the jet black eyes of obama. where is the backbone of a man who trust GOD and walks away? that would be your hero. a world sold into slavery and slaves unto self, no one benefits, not even self.

    1. E BUCK

      I am struggling to understand any of what you've written here.

    2. chip griffin

      it is all a big fat lie. america has took over a strangers land and america is being lead by a stranger, obama is kenyan
      google building 7 and building 6... we.took down the towers, our very own leaders and then we blamed another country... now america will fall as payment for her sins
      those towell heads couldn't knock down a single story building, yet the whole usa brought the lie without even checking and many still claim so today.

  30. areuserious

    eye opening
    .. and WORTH watchingâ˜ș

  31. yellowbelly

    I don't think the US Major in this film is going to get promoted anytime soon.

    1. thought

      he deserves to be.

    2. pwndecaf

      I'd guess he doesn't give a sh!t what you think.

      He is an honorable man in my book, and he likely wouldn't care what I think, either.

    3. yellowbelly

      The comment was and still is meant as a compliment to the Major, and a rebuke to many military systems and political systems that reward the people willing to lie, and indeed encourage it, so they have a positive story to tell their constituents. This always always leads to false information going up the chain of command leading to poor decisions. Hence the expression 'never shoot the messenger'. In addition pwndecaf the condescending tone of your message to me is not required.

  32. Brion Pittman

    the only victory that will EVER take place here will be purely PYRRHIC. any country that promotes or even tolerates homosexuality between "policemen" and little boys deserves extiction. diverting needed funding from our own impoverished, decadent society is blatant malfesance on the part of the joke that suffices for our goverment.

    1. therapy

      do not expect major steuber to do any of the killing.

    2. Stari Mashi

      ^therapy, do you understand Rules of Engagement? You are so far outside your realm right now. Don't bother referencing any experience you had, because it wasn't THIS one. In THIS place. With THESE Afghans. I expect that your retort will be as immature as the rest I have read on this thread. Having served beside him during this entire tour, I can attest to the extraordinary lengths he went to stop what was going on. Stay in your pay grade.

    3. Chakso

      "any country that promotes or even tolerates homosexuality between "policemen" and little boys deserves extiction"

      I think the world you're looking for is not Homosexuality, its Pedophilia. The situation would be no better if they were raping little girls.

    4. dels

      bro, this is how things were back in the day in europe and in usa and it still happens in latin america. and thats how corrupt and ****** up sh*t is. this all new to you. because live elsewhere is not as fairytale like as they portrayed it for you in the media my friend. why you blaming a whole country for something that few screwedup pilice man did. these police man are ass dumb as those military men who bombed innocent children in iraq and afg

  33. I AM POP SLAG.

    I dont know who is worse, the blindly naive cultural children of the good old USA -or the little Afgani stoner boys who are so f--ked up they run at bullets or simply run off.
    Absurd and pointless war which is flooding the world with cheap heroin.

  34. John Michael Defalque

    Canada has been giving hundreds of billions of dollars to Afghanistan for over 25 yrs. Even this year the Tories have approved $500 million to train their illiterate police force and fundamentalist military. These traitors love the Afghan people so much, they call it Afghanada. I guess it's the ultimate frontier to exploit and pay these people $5 a day. The Tories never met a war or a weapon they didn't like and they are happy to never bargain with defense contractors.

    1. terrasodium

      If you are familiar with who Tom Flanagan is you would have a spot on idea of what Harper stands for, you know reformed alliance progressive conservative parties member, son of Exxon and number one fan of 'merican G.W .C+ Bush , You have to admire Harper , his charisma in the center stage of Canadian Politics makes his foreign politics a$$ kissing look as boring as laundry days at home.

    2. Bob

      The worst part is, people in Canada don't even seem to care or ask for detail about Afghanistan. I hate my country...

  35. bumpercrop

    The first part of this doc is almost funny. The stoned and unconcerned Afghan security forces can barely march in place or stay awake. It appears as if a group of little boys have decided to play army to the tune of billions of American tax payer dollars. The Russians could not
    conquer Afghanistan but macho Americans can? More brilliant foreign policy planning at its finest.

    1. terrasodium

      All of the previous wars have been successful , you just have to figure out what success means to those who can do more things within society with 5 years in times of war, than it would take in 50 years in times of peace. Success is subjective. Look at the war on drugs , an unbelievable success if you are in the prison or the law business. Worked for Al Capone

    2. bumpercrop

      good points. Big oil hires Halliburton to protect its profits.
      The banks make out on the underground money from war on drugs. The private prisons make money from war on drugs. If you don't come into this world a cynic,
      you certainly leave this world a cynic. sad.

    3. terrasodium

      Proceeds of crime (confiscated cash and hard assets) fund a large part of US state and municipal police forces, would it be in their interests to prevent crime through education or meaningful rehabilitation of addicts and low level traffickers? Or would it be negative economic advantage to the force agencies?
      Leaving an ill prepare enforcement agency in Afghanistan could provide a boom for the poppy industry and any other countries that will have to cope with their refined products.

    4. bumpercrop

      watch: "Glut, the Untold Story of Punjab" on TDF. an exciting and well edited doc on the flow of heroin into Punjab region of India. Seems 70% of Punjab youth are addicted. Could Pakistan be launching a different kind of weapon?

  36. Ilija Prentovski

    Wars were never meant to be won, only perpetuated for the benefit of war profiteers.

  37. Falin

    We should have hunted Osama and gotten out. You can lead a horse to water but you can not make him drink. If these forces do not want to change they will not. If they want to use intimidation, corruption, kidnapping, and any other non humanitarian way to go about things they will.
    I am sure it is disheartening to say the least but the military's hands are tied and there is not much that can be done about that at least not on a lower level.

    A truly terrible situation but I can see the white house not wanting to publicize the abysmal situation where as there really isnt anything to be done about it and what can be said really? Sorry they do not want to change they like it this way but we did get Osama?

    Sad statement from all angles to be sure.

  38. dewflirt

    If this is winning I'd hate to see what losing looks like. I think Heath Robinson might have had a hand in this war, barely contained mayhem and all we have at the end is a broken egg. Not sure if it's possible to be wholly good in a situation like this one, but some seem to be trying hard to be as good as they can. The rest of them - well, there are opportunists everywhere and in the middle of a war zone there are plenty of opportunities for bad behaviour, the worst behaviour in fact. Someone needs to give those cloth eared, willfully ignorant little suits a good slap. What would their mothers say!?!

  39. Maddestmax

    BTW, am I the only one here having difficulty posting/reading comments with Disqus.

  40. Maddestmax

    Epic/tragic hearts and minds failure, a must watch.
    What will be learned? It's difficult to tell because mainstream media have not yet finished spinning tHIS STORY.

  41. DigiWongaDude

    Every now and again there is a documentary on here that leaves me dumbfounded and emotionally reeling. This easily, and powerfully, is one.

    1. bringmeredwine

      Me too!
      I hope the poor Major goes home and retires after his assignment ends.
      He's gonna need a good thereapist.

    2. DigiWongaDude

      I wanted to give him a mention...but felt anything I said wouldn't do him justice. What a guy.

    3. docoman

      I agree, I got the impression he's a very decent man trying to do an impossible job.
      I couldn't help but feel empathy for most of the Afgan people as well, constantly caught in the middle.

    4. RobGR

      Hopefully he doesn't end up like Col. Westhusing. An admirable man built on honor who was destroyed by the corruption and politics of his superiors, the private contractors, and the Iraqis.

      This is the same stuff the Soviets dealt with, but no one cares about history.

  42. wald0

    Raping little boys, taking bribes for positions of power, stealing from their own people- has the catholic church taken over the Afghan police department?

    1. therapy

      yes. and major steuber's us army in afghanistan is like the swiss guard in vatican city. child-molestating government collusion also reminds me of happy valley, sandusky, and the penn state campus police departmen.

  43. dmxi

    i emphasize to watch the (german) documentary 'it started with a lie!'!

  44. tomregit

    Please watch this one. It shows just how bleak the prospects are for peace when foreign armies leave the country; something that almost everyone already suspected is amply demonstrated. My heart goes out to the brave, honest, and honourable men like Major Bill Steuber who do their utmost to accomplish the impossible tasks that their government has set out for them. All of the bloodshed and money was wasted and ultimately will lead to another sad and dismal ending for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan.

    It gives me no pleasure to remind Americans that, in your name, your elected leaders planned and financed this. For this, and other lamentable consequences, you now must pay. The chickens have come home to roost and you must bear responsibility.

    1. Suzy Spellcheck

      in a gods name, the elected neocon leaders planned and financed this. as they have since at least vietnam. I bear no responsibility for their actions as I do not vote and rebuke their god. just my opinion.

    2. tomregit

      I don't think that Lyndon Johnson would qualify as a neocon. Unfortunately, under Obama, Guantanamo continues to hold uncharged prisoners without the most basic human rights. The use of drones and the killing of American citizens without due process has become normal. With these precedent setting powers in place, future presidents of any political stripe will also use and attempt to expand them.

      Leaving Iraq and Afghanistan in their current condition after being subjected to the introduction of democracy and nation building by the US are truly wicked and criminal actions.

      I cannot blame you individually, but the German people were held responsible for all of their actions in WWII. Why would America, as a nation of individual citizens, be exempt from similar scrutiny?

    3. Jane Doe

      backing away slowly... hoping nobody will notice the mistakes

    4. Suzy Spellcheck

      "I cannot blame you individually"
      that's my point.

      those nations have had democracy forced upon them and have rejected it. yet we won't leave well enough alone because that nothing to do with why we are there. imho

      "Why would America, as a nation of individual citizens, be exempt from similar scrutiny?"
      some of us refuse to be lion bait or of the persecuted classes known as christians and neocons.

      maybe we are exempt the same way the vatican is exempt from rape laws. dunno don't care I find this all to be meaningless.

      thanks for your reply

    5. terrasodium

      Really enjoy your diversionary plausible denial and take charge attitude, maybe you could enlighten us with your militant erudition of how we can all become sociopathic.

    6. misterwong

      Suzy,your abstension to vote does in no way indemnify you from responsibility.we have all become accompliceses by our inaction under the cloak of deniability..I accuse myself of this shameful failing

    7. Suzy Spellcheck

      I'm not an accomplice to anything because someone says so. I think if anything it's a personal decision and rather meaningless at that. feel free to persecute yourself. leave me out of your self flagellation nonsense.

    8. scribblerlarry

      Ditto every single last word Suzy said, doubled!

    9. bumpercrop

      Suzy S- Others might have their lot in life, but it is our lot in life to know of their suffering.

    10. thought

      nothing wrong with God, but the necons did do this

    11. therapy

      liberal officers like steuber are failing to protect little boys.

    12. pwndecaf

      You are preoccupied with taking the law into your own hands , or advocating for others to do so, in many of your posts here and in your profile.

      Major Bill Steuber brings honor to the military with his very caring attitude.

    13. therapy

      by tomahawk right, no self respecting american from the backwoods would not take the law into his own hands.

    14. jackmax

      Are the questions I put to you to hard for you to comprehend or by answering them you know that your posts have many faults and your pride is standing in your way to excepting that you are wrong.

    15. jackmax


      How many year did you serve in the military..?

      And if you have served what active service as in war zone service have you done..?

      If you haven't please explain how the chain of command works within the military...?

    16. Maddestmax

      This is what whining looks like, sad wink.

    17. thought

      tomregit is right

    18. therapy

      politicians are not to blame. you are in denial about bill steuber . the military leadership is failing and losing the killer instinct. how many conspicuous afghan child molesters are not being hunted down in a war zone by the impotent american world policeman? i ask the questions.

    19. tomregit

      Why do you think Americans should be the world's policemen?
      Using the military as a civilian police force is never a good idea. Good policemen are not good soldiers, and good soldiers make terrible policemen.

    20. jackmax

      How do you know this are you either an ex police officer or defense member..?

      I think that your statement " Good policemen are not good soldiers, and good soldiers make terrible policemen" is such a misconception on your behalf and extremely insulting to both the capabilities and intelligence of both party's mentioned. Do you realise that within the services have their own police (MP), so by the same training methods and in many areas of the police force ex service men are better trained to deal with situations than their civilian brothers.

      Upon my retirement from the defense force I was approached by federal and state police service due to my military background, to enter the police services.

      I've meet bad coppers that had never spent one day as a defense member and visa-versa. The individual person should be assessed by their own proformance not their previous career path.

    21. tomregit

      You have misunderstood my comment. I do not mean that ex-servicemen cannot be good policemen or vice-versa. Their PREVIOUS career path may even be beneficial to make the transition. Please don't read any more into my words than what is actually said.

      The object of an army is to kill the enemy; the job of a policeman is quite different. Therefore a military force is ill suited for police duties and a good police force is poorly equipped to perform military actions.

    22. jackmax

      Yes I did misunderstand your comment.

      You are right in that one of the objectives of a soldier is to kill the enemy, but that is only one of the tasks of a modern soldier. The modern soldier is a lot better trained to deal with civilian issues in a more proactive manner than I was over 25 years ago. Can really only comment on my own countries military. The entry level education required has in real terms increased so that being the case the adaptabilities of the soldier should have increased.

      A soldier can adapt to their roles which ever it is as first and for most soldier follow orders, and will be trained as required to preform their duty to the best of there abilities at all times.

      I agree police are not equipped to be a defense force, but other than the laws themselves a military unit is in a position to be the police