Kingdom of David: The Saga of the Israelites

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Ratings: 6.69/10 from 35 users.

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Kingdom of David: The Saga of the IsraelitesOriginally intended as a four-part miniseries, Kingdom of David: The Saga of the Israelites made its U.S. debut as a two-part PBS special on May 14 and 21, 2003. Narrated by Keith David, with character voices provided by an impressive lineup of prominent actors, the program is dedicated to the thesis that the Israelites and the Jewish faith changed human history "as much as any empire that ever existed."

Persecuted and slaughtered for practicing monotheism at a time when the prevailing belief was in multiple gods, the Kingdom of David kept itself united and solvent by passing along the history and traditions of its elders in written form (the "religion of the book").

Among the subjects explored are the formation of the laws of the Jews, the origins of their customs, and their strongly held and strictly enforced moral values. The playlist bellow includes individual episodes, each around 55 minutes long: By the Rivers of Babylon, The Book and the Sword, The End of Days, and The Gifts of the Jews. As often as possible, Kingdom of David was filmed on the exact locations where the historical events described herein occurred.

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192 Comments / User Reviews

  1. Solomon S. Buyco

    Wonder how the people under King Saul managed to keep their Jewish religion intact among themselves with King David's Christendom...

    History and events could be analyzed that some were on "Graft and Corruptions" to gain control of the political situations... as suggested here in this videos... and the victim is the Holy Scripture and finally the death of the "Promise One". or "the Redeemer".

  2. Charles B.

    An excellent documentary as a whole. Very informative.

    Episode # 1 I give an 8.0 for too much speculation.
    Epidodes # 2-4 I'd give 10's throughout.

  3. Reb

    The most TRUTHFUL documentary I have found on the OT the so-called reign of King David is 'The Bible Unearthed'. One of the top biblical archaeologist and professor at Tel Aviv University. His name is Israel Finkelstein, a jew with no reason to lie. He is one of the few with the integrity to tell it like it is.

    Also, in the 'arkdiscovery' link, which ark are they referring to since the OT god had moses construct two and each was for very different purposes from the other. One ark carried the second set of commandments that replaced the ones moses broke in a hissy fit and the other ark was a powerful electrical weapon used for such things as destroying the city of Jericho. When the genious Nicoli Tesla read the instructions to constructing the latter one, he knew what it was and made a small one to scale that nearly shook the building he was in to bits.

    The pharaoh was probably chasing after moses and his band of thieves because they realized after moses and his band of lepers left they had taken the ark weapon. The bible is not what we have been led to believe. Moses was a brutal criminal who hoodwinked a group of ignorant superstitious people into becoming thieves, rapists and mass murderers. King David was just as bad, as was Solomon who even stooped to sacrificing his own children to Moloch/Baal. BTW, moloch and baal and yahweh were one and the same. Yahweh later drops his baal idenity and says he will no longer be called baal.

  4. Reb

    BTW, The Bible Unearthed can be viewed on google or youtube.

  5. Solomon S. Buyco

    Here is some facts regarding continuity... The Messiah and the Christ are not the same for a simple reason of the people behind them. They had the same agenda but had different oath to go through because of the existence of their own reality. and on this reason as time do exist in all creation, the Bible's Christ was designed for "Graft and Corruption"... due to the non-existence of the established congregation of King David. Imagine the hidden agenda of where they have introduced their doctrine! In the Gospel!
    Ah, the power of having the hands in making things in reality... the original Gospel is just a gnostic beliefs.

    Allah is the end result of the Creation or of the Evolution... but in terms of the guiding influence, I would say and simply safe to say that Jesus is my Allah.

    God bless...

  6. Kelly K.

    Charles B:

    You make good points. Don't let peole like Reb get your goat. Lack of "evidence" written in "stone" is the norm, not the exception for all leaders of antiquity. The fact that anything at all remains from the Exodus is remarkable. King David, even more so, as those that tried to destroy the Israelites (or any former civilization) also destroyed records and especially things like monuments. Only unoticed or hidden things remained undestroyed. Little wonder they are difficult to find 2500 or even 3000 years later. There will always be new speculations of the past that will come and go with new discoveries, or else be more firmly established.

  7. Reb

    Yahweh
    New World Encyclopedia
    Relationship to Other Deities

    In the "Song of Moses," the great prophet asks:
    "Who among the gods is like you, O Lord? Who is like you—majestic in holiness, awesome in glory, working wonders?" (Exod. 15:11)
    A great deal of discussion has been devoted to the relationship of Yahweh to the other deities of the region. The Hebrews used many names to worship their God, such as El Shaddai, El Elyon, Elohim, etc. Outside the Bible, El is known as the chief deity of the Canaanite religion. He was the father of the Canaanite god Baal and the husband of the mother goddess Ashera. Interestingly, the word "Baal" also means "lord" or "master." An indication that Baal and Yahweh were sometimes identified is evidenced in the words of the prophet Hosea, who says:
    "In that day," declares the Lord, [YHWH] "you will call me 'my husband'; you will no longer call me 'my master [baal].'" (Hosea 2:16)
    In fact, archaeologists and language experts indicate that it is difficult to distinguish Israelite and Canaanite culture until the early Early Iron Age, around the time of King David. We can imagine a situation in which some of the proto-Israelites worshiped a variety of gods, or worshiped God in a variety of forms using many names. Thus, Jeru-baal (Gideon)—was named for both Yahweh and Baal; while the Judge Shamgar ben Anath was named after the war goddess Anat. Solomon, anointed by the Yahwist prophet Samuel as Israel's first king, nevertheless named his sons Ish-baal and Meri-baal. Many modern scholars believe that eventually, some of the characteristics of Yahweh, El, and Baal merged into Yahweh/Elohim. Baal, on the other hand, was denigrated and excluded, just as the bronze serpent icon associated with Moses (Num. 21: 9) was eventually destroyed as an idol (2 Kings 18:4). So too was the goddess Ashera disowned, while the chief deities of other ethnic groups were treated as having nothing in common with Yahweh.
    The issue is complicated by the question of whether the Israelites were truly one distinct people descended from Abraham who migrated en masse from Egypt to Canaan, rather than a confederation of previously unrelated people who came to accept a common national identity, religious mythology, and origin story. In any case, there is much evidence that the Yahweh-only ideology did not come to the fore among the Israelites until well into the period of Kings, and it was not until after the Babylonian exile that monotheism took firm root among the Jews.
    Yahweh himself was sometimes worshiped in a way that later generations would consider idolatrous. For example, presence of golden cherubim and cast bronze bull statues at the Temple of Jerusalem leads many scholars to question whether the Second Commandment against graven images could have been in effect at this time, rather than being the creation of a later age written back into history by the biblical authors. Describing an earlier period, Judges 17-18 tells the story of a wealthy Ephraimite woman who consecrates 1,100 pieces of silver to Yahweh to be cast into an image and put into the family shrine along with other idols. Her son then hires a Levite who serves as priest at the family's altar, successfully inquiring there of Yahweh on behalf of passing travelers from the tribe of Dan. The Danites later steal the idols and take them along with the priest to settle in the north. A grandson of Moses named Jonathan becomes their chief priest.

    The tale serves as a precursor the later story of the northern king Jeroboam I erecting idolatrous bull-calf altars at Dan and Bethel in competition with the Temple of Jerusalem. English translations portray Jeroboam as saying "Here are your gods, O Israel" at the unveiling. The Hebrew, however, is "here is elohim," the same word normally translated at "God." Bull calves were associated with the worship of El, and bulls were routinely offered to Yahweh on horned altars. Here we see the process by which certain aspects of El worship—such as horned altars and the sacrifice of cattle—were accepted into the worship of Yahweh, while others—such as the veneration of the bull-calf icon and the recognition of Baal as one of El's sons—were disowned.
    William Dever discusses another intriguing question in his book Did God Have a Wife? He presents archaeological evidence suggesting that the goddess Ashera was seen as Yahweh's consort in certain times and places. An echo of language associated with Ashera worship may be found in Genesis 49:25, which sates: "The Almighty (Shaddai)… blesses you with blessings… of the breast and womb." The Bible is clear that the Queen of Heaven was worshiped by families who also honored Yahweh in Jeremiah's day (Jer. 7:17–18). Dever suggests that Ashera worship remained widespread among the common folk, while the elites, centering on the male priesthood, fought to exclude any feminine portrayals of God. Eventually, many of the characteristics of Ashera were included in the rabbinic concept of the Shekhina.
    The Bible seems to indicate that even though the Israelites were forbidden to worship other deities, Yahweh was not considered as the only god who actually existed. The prophet Micah declared: "All the nations may walk in the name of their gods; we will walk in the name of the Lord our God for ever and ever" (Mic. 4:5). Yahweh is often referred to in the Bible as "the god of the hebrews" (there being no capitalization in the Hebrew text), thus portrayed as one of several tribal deities rather than as the only God in existence.
    Psalm 82, on the other hand, seems to mark a transition point, in which God will no longer accept coexistence with other deities:
    God [elohim] standeth in the congregation of God [or the gods: "elohim"]; He judgeth among the gods [elohim]…. They know not, neither do they understand; They walk to and fro in darkness: All the foundations of the earth are shaken. I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High. Nevertheless ye shall die like men, And fall like one of the princes. (Ps. 82:1-7)
    The portrait of God acting as judge in the assembly of the gods has obvious parallels in other religious traditions: El is the chief of the divine assembly in Canaanite religion, just as Zeus is the head of the court at Olympus. Here, however, God has pronounced a sentence of capital punishment on the other gods..
    …………………………………………………………………………………………….
    BTW. The OT clearly states that the god of Abraham was El Elyon, the father of the pantheon of gods. “Thomas Paine was right again when he said "Serving a mean god makes a mean man.”

  8. Charles B

    Reb: I'll read this later when I have more time. Give me a day or two or three. I've got plans Friday through Sunday. Thanks.

  9. Johanna

    Hi Charles B - I have stumbled upon this site and noticed your name and the content and nature of your writing and I am thinking I wouldn't be surprised if you are the same guy who I'm sure was called Charles that blogged on a site that's subject was 11:11. I was curious to find out what this silly nonsense with 11:11 was all about and when I read the blog I was so disgusted at the behaviour of many bloggers and if it weren't for you I wouldn't have continued scrolling, but your blogs were great and kept my interest. I tried to make a comment in support of you and give those hypocrites a piece of my mind but I it wouldn't post. I attempted several times!

    It's great to come across your blogs again, they are so full of truth and information I relish reading.

    :-)

  10. Solomon S. Buyco

    As usual, the old trick about the Lord, God and a name, which is a father, is in the system of bewilderment. Politically, this kind of system of identification is in crisis when dealing with facts and History... Just like on this present system in regards to Jesus and Christ. if in doubt, it would be Jesus, but if it would be certain, it would be Christ but if it involves the very person who is at the table of concern, it would be Jesus-Christ... For this reason, I already doubted that as of today, unbelievers are telling everyone to believe in God for a reason that only they could know... or was it an old practice?

    "Be very afraid of those who can kill the soul." - Jesus

    As of this foregoing... the motto is "To never bow to terrorism."...

  11. Reb

    Yahweh was not only one of the sons of god in the pantheon of gods, he was also a petty tribal god and the bible proves it.

    When the so-called Most High gave to his sons according to those foolish enough to follow them, yahweh came out with the fewest people and no land. That is why they killed and stole everything they got their nasty hands on. He also declares he is a man of war! What a nasty spirit and the christians are carrying on the spirit of war and genocide to this day.

    32:8 When the Most High(El Elyon) divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
    32:9 For the LORD's portion is his people; Jacob(12 tribes) is the lot(extent) of his inheritance.

    This is nothing more than the inverted twisted epic found in the Sumer scrolls that predate the hebrews by hundreds, if not a thousand years.

  12. Reb

    Back to Queen David:

    1 Samuel 18:1,3
    "And it came to pass, when he [David] had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul . . . And Jonathan and David made a covenant, because he loved him as his own soul."

    And immediately afterward, Jonathan disrobed before David:

    1 Samuel 18:4

    "Jonathan divested himself of the mantle he was wearing and gave it to David, along with his military dress, and his sword, his bow and his belt.

    Jonathan was not only disrobing, but was turning the symbols of his manhood over to David. This draws a very clear picture of what is happening here.

    1 Samuel 20:30
    "Then Saul's anger was kindled against Jonathan, and he said unto him, Thou son of perverse rebellious woman, do not I know that thou hast chosen the son of Jesse [David] to thine own confusion, and unto the confusion of thy mother's nakedness?"

    Reference to the nakedness of one's parents is one of the methods used in the Bible to refer to a sexual activity. Jonathan had chosen David as his lover. And in the same conversation Saul says:

    1 Samuel 20:31
    Why, as long as the son of Jesse lives upon the earth you cannot make good your claim to the kingship!

    This clarifies Saul's problem. One of the most important duties of being a king was producing an heir. Obviously, Jonathan had no intention of producing an heir, and therefore could not provide the final step needed to make good his claim to the kingship. He loved David and only David. How could just a deep friendship keep Jonathan from marrying a woman and producing an heir?

    1 Samuel 20:41
    . . they [David and Jonathan] kissed one another, and wept one with another . . . "

    How many men would you like to see kissing and hugging and weeping because they LOVE each other?

    2 Samuel 1:26
    [After Jonathan's death, David said,] "I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women."

    The Bible shows them kissing one another -- not a normal activity for heterosexual men. To make sure you don't miss the sexual aspect, the love is compared with the love of a woman, only better. Their souls were knit together in love, and they made a covenant because of their love. Just think about how many covenants are made because of love. The covenant of marriage sort of sticks out. The actions immediately following that declaration of love are also unmistakable. Not many covenants made because of love result in the participants disrobing in each other's presence, but one such covenant, the covenant of marriage does.

    .
    Saul tries to put a stop to this love affair and offers his oldest daughter Meroh to David, but David turns down the offer. He then offers his younger daughter Michel to David, who loves David, but David also turns this down. David finally agrees to marry Michel, but not for love, but rather for the benefit of having the king as his father-in-law.

    1 Samuel 18:26
    "When the servants reported this offer to David, he was pleased with the prospect of becoming the king's son-in-law."

    There is no mention of being pleased at the prospect of marrying Michel, only with becoming the king's son-in-law.

    David was obviously bisexual. But with a preference for men, since he found his love for Jonathan to be wonderful, passing the love of women.

    Try and clean this up and pretend it is normal but even the dullest dullard couldn’t miss the implications of this sordid tale.

    Of course, David goes on to become a liar and cheat who takes the wife of his most loyal soldier and defiles her. That is also rape. He even resorts to the mans murder to cover up his detestable deeds.

    At the end of his life he is still a dirty old man and requires a young concubine (sex slave) to comfort him. What a vile worthless character.

  13. Charles B

    Johanna:

    Hi, actually, it wasn't me that blogged on the 911 sight! Ironic that there are two of us out there, but I guess so. I do post prayers on a Christian website and I think I'll gradually sway back that way again. It's a whole different world encouraging people who are "seeking" rather than challenging many who are not.

    I will tell you the story of my name "Charles." When I was born, my mother prayed, and ask the Lord, "What shall we call him?" and she heard specifically: "Charles Matthew" which means a man who is a gift from God. My dad didn't like it, and called me something else for my middle name. Later when I was 33 in my darkest times, when I felt the lowest of my life, I prayed and asked the Lord, "Father, am I still a 'Charles Matthew'? Am I still a man who is a gift from God?" Immediately I felt Him say, "Yes! You always have been my "Charles Matthew!"

    I try not to give out my full name too much over the internet, but that is my true story and so from my youngest days I've loved God with all my heart and soul and mind, but only wish I had been a better man in my younger days.

    Charles B.

    Reb: As a refute the "EL" names are titles, like "God my healer". Yes, I knew Baal meant Lord, and similarity of language is not the same as the same deity. Allay and Yawah (I am) are both called "God" in modern times; but they are NOT the same entity. Some like, 1400 Years, who is a Muslim would say they are, but I certainly know they are not. If you use his writings as a source, you can add "Allah" onto your list of "gods" you're trying to make the One true God out to be.

    God punished David very strongly for several sins (the sin with Bathsheba and the sin of "numbering his fighting men"). Homosexuality was punishable by death at that time. Had he been having sex with Johnathon, Saul's son, God Himself would have condemned the act and we would know bout it in the Bible as it pulls no punches when God's chastizement is carried out for sin. They were best of friends but not gay lovers.

    You quote:

    “Thomas Paine was right again when he said “Serving a mean god makes a mean man.” King David was a not a mean man for sure; human, yes, but not mean.

    Reb, be sure to greet Mr. Paine when you meet him next as I'm quite sure you're headed in that direction sooner or later. Besides, Thomas Paine was an atheist, and he was sour and mean to the bone. Which god was he serving? Surely not the God of Mother Teresa, Billy Grayhem, and many others who have proven themselves to live-long lovers of mankind in the self-sacrificing image of the Love God Himself, and His Son, Jesus Christ.

  14. Charles B

    Sorry, my last sentece was supposed to be:

    "Surely not the god of Mother Teresa, Billy Grayehm, Martin Luther, and many others who have proven themsleves to be life-long lovers of mankind, in the self-sacrificing image of the God of Love Himself, and His only Son, Jesus Christ." ;-)

  15. Reb

    Christians support demonic zionism thereby becoming mass murderers of innocent people, including women, children and babies. God never gave the zionists shit much less the land that rightfully belongs to the Palestinians. The goal of these murdering vile devils is total world control and YOU and YOUR FAMILY are next but you are too stupid to see what is going on and you support these maniacs. They are the jews who are of the synagogue of satan, the Khazars, but idiots support them because their book tells you to. They tell you in their dirty little blueprint what is really going on but you just love jayzuz/lucifer so you follow along like the deaf dumb fools you are.

    There are over 800 detention camps all over this country built by Cheney's rotten Haliburton Corp. on a no bid contract. The government paid the 385 million of your tax dollars to built your tombs and torture centers. FEMA has been stock piling plastic grave liners complete with lids in locations all over the US. I live about 30 miles from one of these stockpiles that began appearing a few short years ago. It now has approx. 500,000 and there are others that reportedly have millions. Why is your government trying so hard to force everyone to take vaccinations that have not been tested and we do not want. If you fools don't wake up the very people you look to as leaders are going to kill you, rape your children and steal all you have. The Freedom of Information Act released proof the government has been testing bio-weapons against the public and military without consent or knowledge since the 40's but since most people are inflicted with a morbid case of utter stupidity they don't have a clue what is soon to come. The precious 'clergy' is being paid, as usual, by the government to work with FEMA under the title of 'Clergy Response Teams'. They have taken their dirty thirty pieces of silver to talk their dumb sheeple to going along with whatever the government says, to their own destruction. The bible is a filthy blueprint for world control and one religion domination. Remember, in Revelation when Lucifer/jesus brings in the new world, it is ruled over by those he appoints and they will rule with rods of iron. It is coming and you had better wake the hell up and take off your gospel glasses of pious deceit and get ready to fight for your lives and the lives of your family. On the other hand you can sit with your fingers up your butts and wait for lucifer to rapture you to your new home....behind barbed wire.

  16. Reb

    Charles, who do christians lie all the time? Thomas Paine was NOT an atheist, he was Deist as I am. He stated "I believe in one God and no more and I hope for happiness beyond this life."

    Thomas Paine is the man who named this country The United States of America and helped create the Constitution and our Bill of Rights, you moron. He was the author of the famous tracts Common Sense and The Rights of Man. The American Revolution would never have taken place without him. In his famous The Age of Reason, he deconstructs the bible and NO ONE can refute what he penned. In part 3 he tears the so-called prophecies of jesus out of the frame and again, it cannot be refuted. He feels as I do that attributing that horrid book called the buy-bull to the true Creator is the real blasphemy of men. You are not fit to even mention the name of Thomas Paine as you obviously are completely ignorant of him, his wonderful compassionate human character and his works. He was a real man which you are NOT. You prefer to spend your time down on your sissy knees at crotch level before an invisible non-existent perverted man. Judaism and christianity are both phallic/penis worshipping cults so I guess you are assuming the proper position. Why do christians lie?

  17. Tim

    Charles, I'm not sure you would want to include Martin Luther in that list. He didn't love Jews or Muslims very much at all. If you need proof, read his treatise, "On the Jews and Their Lies." On the other hand, Martin Luther King, Jr. loved mankind AND was a Chrisian, so he's a much better fit! =)

    It's really much harder than you think to find people who actually are life-long lovers of mankind.

    Trivial point, I know, but I was bored.

  18. Tim

    Reb, thanks for pointing out some facts about Thomas Paine. He was a Deist, like many of our founding fathers, who are either mistakenly or quite intentionally labeled Christians. Few people are even aware of Thomas Jefferson's "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth," which was basically the New Testament without the supernatural elements. The worst thing we can do to the dead is misrepresent them. We should respect them enough to acknowledge what they did, said and believed, whether we agree with them or not.

    However, I completely disagree when you say that Christians lie all the time. Lying occurs equally across all groups of people. Whatever you think about Christians or the Bible, demonizing an entire group of people because you disagree with them is unwise. And you should really apologize to Charles for your unwarranted insults. Behaving like that while criticizing another group's morality is hypocritical.

  19. Reb

    Tim, I don't know who you think you are to tell me what to do or say. Charles did not bother to research Paine and just because I quoted the man Charles took it upon himself to cast me in the same hell he hopes Paine is in. Who owes whom and apology??? I wouldn't wish a place called hell on my worst enemy, only a demon would say such a thing and the bible Charles loves to quote forbids one human from judging another.

    Whether intentional or not, most christians do lie. Most probably that comes from their blind faith endoctrination from youth but a lie is still a lie. The Apostate Paul clearly says it is acceptable to lie to advance the kingdom!!! What kind of god needs his followers to lie for him? If satan is the god of this world, the bible is his book and he is the father of lies. Common sense would tell any thinking person that if god requires lies then he is the god of this world. His followers portray him perfectly. David Barton the so-called christian author is a perfect example of lying and forgery, all in the name of his god. He wrote a book that included never seen before quotes of our founding fathers that made them look like zealot fanatical christians. When the internet grew and more and more subjects started appearing, his quotes began to pop up and the ignorant christians never bothered to question where he obtained them. He was eventually challenged by honest atheists and deists to produce his sources or face charges of forgery as many of us have read every published work of all the founding fathers. He backed down and lied through his teeth and only would admit those quotes were 'spurious' knowing damn well he created them. He was forced to edit them from his work and post a redaction on his site, which he put in an area few would see. That is the length such 'leaders' will go to lie and also make a buck. Idiots still follow this crook. Forging quotes and putting the names of our founding fathers to them is a crime and he should have been convicted of a felony.

    Perhaps you need to go back and read the hateful comments I have received and then go mind your own business.

  20. Tim

    Reb, I can say pretty much whatever I want here. This is open to the public, so if you don't want people to respond to what you say, then say it in private. I'm not telling you what to do or say, I'm only telling you what you "should" say. There's a difference. If you can say that all Christians are liars, I can say that you're being unnecessarily rude. Telling Charles that he's not a real man and calling his knees "sissy" is just plain mean and doesn't refute any of his arguments. If he said the same to you, would you be upset if I criticized him for it? I admit that he shouldn't say you're going to hell; though he didn't actually say it. He sort of implied it. But it's not his wish for anyone to go to hell. I'm sure he doesn't want any of us to suffer eternal torment, but he honestly believes that it will happen to both of us. He doesn't hate you or me, he just believes it's going to happen.

    You're absolutely right about Barton though. He basically sought to rewrite American History to reflect his own ideology. His work is a prime example of academic dishonesty. Unfortunately, millions of people have embraced his claims without question. Attempts to Christianize American history should not be rewarded. I don't think there's anything bad about acknowledging the role that Christians played in the founding of our country, but denying non-Christian influences is dishonest. It's almost like if we removed all the contributions non-whites had made, or if we wrote the natives out of our history books, or denied that the French helped us in our revolution against the British. Rewriting history to further an ideological agenda is just absolutely horrible, and making excuses for those who do so is also deplorable.

  21. Reb

    If you can say pretty much what you please on an open forum, so can I. As far as Charles is concerned, I live in the south in the midst of ignorant pious nutjobs who will do just about anything to further the cause of their beliefs. He is cut from the same cloth and pattern. They only parrot what they hear some huckster spout from behind a pulpit. I have seen some of the meanest people imaginable claiming to be children of god and HELL is their favorite topic. I guess they are children of god once you realize which god they are referring to. Any deity who would create such a dispicable place as a burning eternal hell can go burn in it himself. Free will is another lie of these coneheads. I could tell my sons they have free will to love me or not, but if they don't I will set fire to them. What kind of parent would that make me and yet these goofballs praise this monster because he gave us free will. What evil did it take for any mind to even come up with such a concept? Only the most twisted and demented sort could conceive of anything so grotesque and abominable. The bible gods themselves are total abominations to the entire world and anyone who follows them are f-ing imbeciles.

    How many people do you suppose know the true history of this nation or even care? Until we all face some cold hard facts and stop trying to live in some make believe fantasy world things will continue on as is and wars will never end. Our leaders, both political and religious know how to stir up the patriot hearts against the evil pagans. Our young men go and die for lies that only make a small group of evil greedy bastards richer. My anger is directed at fools who could see but steadfastly refuse. They ARE sissy men who gave up the right to think and reason when they decided to accept primative dogmas and superstition. When this nation falls, and it is headed in that direction, the religious freaks can thank themselves in great part for that fall. They care not for this planet and are taught to hate the things of the world. They don't give a damn about others who do not share their views since they are taught that all others are of the 'devil'. They think that the next great war will bring jayzuz flying through the air and they don't have one clue what is truly about to take place. Those of us who never bought into all this insanity of fighting for god never wanted any part of their nasty demonic wars and the killing of innocent people, however, we are all stuck with what these mindless loonies have brought about. America has now become the new Evil Empire and people of the world do not hate us for our freedoms, they hate us for our killing and stealing. Our military now occupies over 127 countries where we never had any business being in the first place. We were lied to about Iraq and still we go about daily killing the innocent men, women and children while our 'buddies' the Israelies do the same to the Palestinians. The bible is all about slaughter and no one does it better than the zionist and the christians. I suggest these morons should read Mark Twains War Prayer and then go look into a mirror. This nation fights for oil and drugs while the sheeple pretend that is not true.

  22. Tim

    Reb, I can see why you would feel the way you do given your experiences. And I agree that some people can be downright horrible. I just don't think that you should let your anger get the best of you. Charles isn't as bad as the people you've encountered. He seems to be pretty nice, from what I've seen in his comments anyway. I think we all just need to stop being angry and hateful, because it's impossible to discuss anything if we keep insulting each other. Unfortunately, most of these discussions quickly deteriorate into bickering about whose side is more evil. Then someone inevitably makes a comparison to Hitler (I'm now a firm believer in Godwin's Law because of this) or Karl Marx, and the discussion is basically lost at that point.

  23. Reb

    Tim, you are right and I should know by now you can't give the truth to those who refuse to see or hear it. You can take the bible and show the atrocities in black and white and they will make excuses or use the old stand by that it is being taken out of context. That is the excuse when it can't be explained for anything other than what it really says. I will never understand anyone wanting to worship a devil. The child abuse that is rampant in the world is another direct result of the bible. Yahwehs way of dealing with disrepectful kids was to take them out of the city and have the parents along with the other people stone them to death! Just try to imagine that if you can. He has a group torn to shreds by a she bear for dising a bald prophet. What a jerk.

    (May 9, 2006
    Nearly 800,000 children under the age of 18 are reported missing each year in the United States, according to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children (NCMEC).)

    This should scare the hell out of anyone but it is hardly mentioned and not mentioned at all within religious circles. Satanic child sacrifice rituals are featured in the OT as demanded by yahweh and it still goes on today. Many of these missing children were used in such rituals after being raped and sodomized. It is mind bobbling to read how many so-called religious clergy, sunday school teachers, deacons etc. are involved in these disgusting rituals. All you have to do is do a google search on religious child sacrifice and you will never run out of material. One detective in NY wrote that one of the people they arrested in one these cults stated that the self life of a child used for sex rituals was only 2 years!!! They think of children as commodities and not human.

    Moses would tell his butchers to kill all the males, both adult and children but to keep all the virgin women and little girls for themselves. I won't go into how they determined who was a virgin but use your imagination. The Tract of Sanhedrin in the Talmud discusses how it is acceptable to have sex with a little girl who is 3 years old plus one day and little boys who are 7. It goes into great gory detail on sex with children so why are we surprised that so many rabbis and christian clergy practice such monstrous things? Their god was a pervert too. Human sacrifice eliminated thousands of innocent children to the vampire yahweh.

    Exodus 22:29-30:?
    “You shall not delay to offer from the fullness of your harvest and from the outflow of your presses. The first-born of your sons you shall give to me. ?30? You shall do likewise with your oxen and with your sheep: seven days it shall be with its dam; on the eighth day you shall give it to me.”

    God admitted he did this in Ezekiel 20:25-26 where he purportedly said:

    ?25? “Moreover I gave them statutes that were not good and ordinances by which they could not have life; ?26? and I defiled them through their very gifts in making them offer by fire all their first-born, that I might horrify them; I did it that they might know that I am the Lord.”

    You would think a just god could find another way to make his point other than having innocent children burnt to death.

    The context of the Exodus passage concerns offerings and sacrifices, and it says God requires that first born sons are to be literally sacrificed to him. Hence, unlike other passages where there is the possibility of redemption with a substitute sacrifice ( Exodus 13:13; 34:10-20), none is specifically stated here. The concept of "redemption" is an interesting one that goes hand in hand with child sacrifice, because animals were substituted for the firstborn. Yet that says nothing against the idea that a better sacrifice was the firstborn child himself, and many people in the Old Testament did just that. Circumcision was probably a substitutionary child sacrifice (Exodus 4:24).

    Child sacrifice should be understood within the whole concept of human sacrifice as a whole, which pleased God (Leviticus 27:28). Human sacrifice was probably only considered evil when it was done in the name of a foreign god, and doing so was punishable by death precisely because it was offered to another deity (Leviticus 20:2; 18:21 Deuteronomy 12:31 18:10; II Kings 17:17 23:10; II Chronicles 28:3 33:4-10; Ps 106:38; Isaiah 57:5,6; Jeremiah 7:31 32:35 Ezekiel 16:20,21 20:26,31 23:37,39 Acts 7:43).

    Child sacrifice was something that several Biblical people either did, or assisted others in doing so. Abraham was not morally repulsed by the command itself (Genesis 22). Then there is Jepthah who probably sacrificed his daughter because of a stupid vow and yahweh "accepted the offer"(Judges 11); David (II Sam. 21:7-9); Solomon and his wives (I Kings 3:16); Ahab (I Kings 16:33-34); Ahaz (II Kings 16:2-3); Hoshea (II Kings 17:7); and Manasseh (II Kings 21:6, II Chronicles 33:6). It was a problem for King Josiah ( II King 23:10), for Jeremiah (Jeremiah 7:30-31; 19:3-5; 32:35), and Ezekiel (Ezekiel 16:20-21; 20:25-26, 30-31). The prophet Micah wonders if he should sacrifice his oldest son “as a sin offering” (6:6-8). Child sacrifice to foreign gods was so prevalent that it’s named as one of the major reasons why God sent the Babylonians to conquer Israel and forcibly take many of them as captives (II Kings 17:16-18).

    We even read where the King of Moab sacrificed his son which caused the Israelites to retreat in defeat. Moab’s sacrifice created a great “wrath,” (ketzef), which was an external divine force to the warriors in the story, indicating that his sacrifice caused some divinity to act on behalf of Moab. (II Kings. 3:26-27).

    In the New Testament God the Father sacrifices his only son (Jesus) as the central redemptive act of Christianity, and God still seeks to fulfill his lust for human sacrifice by burning humans forever in the lake of fire.

    If all that is not bad enough, the christians are told they need to practice mock vampirism and mock cannibalism by eating and drinking flesh and blood. This is a satanic ritual.

    There is one verse that says yahweh got so angry with his people because they were not serving him in joy and fullness of heart so he caused famine to come so they were forced to cook and eat their own kids! Who in their right f-ing mind could serve this maniac in joy and fullness of heart? Are they all totally mad or do they never read the book? Yahweh loved the sweet savor of burning flesh in his big snotty god nostrils.

    If he told me to cut the throat of my child and burn him alive to prove my loyalty to him, I would tell him to kiss my ass and go F himself.

  24. Reb

    BTW, Charles, yahweh was certainly just in the punishment for David. He killed the innocent baby! Bathsehba was forced to live with the devil that had her husband killed because pregnant women with no husband could not survive alone. The only option left for her was marriage to a killer or prostitution, but your god is never concerned with the welfare of a woman.

    What are your thoughts on concubines(sex slaves) all these godly bastards kept? If any of these people, including your god, lived today, they would all be executed for crimes against humanity, forced prostitution, rape, theft, murder, pedophilia, animal cruelty and lethal deception.

    Just as it is today, there is a small group who claim to be of the bloodlines of the elect and they call themselves the elite. They intermarry just as the bible thugs did yet incestuous marriages for the common people is forbidden. Our elite are just as evil, greedy and power hungry as the bible perverts were. It is widely agreed by many that this same deranged bloodline is now the current elite. They are known as the Illuminati that our own founding fathers tried to keep out of this nation. They failed and we have our own version of the evil 'chosen' whose agenda is to wipe out the rest of us and impose a worldwide government and religion. The book of Revelation is the storyline they are following and if you are not one of the members of this elite cabal of maniacs you won't be part of this gods world unless you are one of the those who is ruled over by a rod of iron. The Revelation of Christ is exactly what it says. It is revealing Lucifer, the bright morning star. Notice the accounts of jesus with his garments dripping with the blood of those who refused him. That is the fate for those of us who will resist a NWO. You better take off the gospel goggles and read that book for what it is.

    If you don't know what the Georgia Guidestones are, google it. Millions of dollars were paid to erect this massive monument of genocide that is planned for us. The first NWO commandment is to keep humanity at 500,000,000. That means 90% of us will have to be exterminated. This monument is just a few miles from the FEMA coffin field.

    Genocide was the expertise of the 'chosen' and they are still in control and with the blessings and prayers of the deaf and dumb like yourself. I am trying to wake you up while there is time. The next false flag attack will usher in martial law and that will be the beginning of the end of this nation. When the US falls, the rest of the world will be a piece of cake. As long as there are religious buffoons praticing their buffoonery there is little hope of any of us standing a fighting chance. You hope I go to hell but I don't want you or anyone else to end up in a US nazi detention camp. I don't want children taken from parents to never be seen again. Those who say this can't happen here are fools and it is not going to happen, it is already in progress and your religious leaders are part of it. You have been warned.

  25. Achems Razor

    wow!

    The preceding comments is what I consider food for thought!

  26. Solomon S. Buyco

    Some here is just a dog who could not find the cat to bark at in the right tree....

    Anyway, it is common nowadays for an unbelievers to tell people to believe in God... but my doubts are on the statements of the revised New Testament. They are for those who made them and not for the information for those who doesn't know Jesus. in simple terms, they are for "Graft and Corruption" as the original authors of the Gospel could not take it anymore that they have to let it go to those translators under the guidance and influence of Emperor Constantine... and who they are? Christians of course... the very people who are responsible in having Jesus crucified simply because of vengeance of their rebellion that they are almost annihilated by Romans under the name of their Messiah, but not necessarily Jesus, as is as practiced and preached by hard core Davidians even today.

    So, toady. leadership is all that matters, especially when it comes to money... Religion without money is just like Christians of Jesus.... which I like the most because I deserved to have what I deserve when it comes to money.

  27. Charles B.

    Reb: I'm very sick. I probably have the flu. Your rant is too large to address piece by peice except for a few key points:

    The Exodus passage where you are saying God commanded them to sacrifice thier babies and gave them rules that they couldn't follow so he could punish them, blah, blah, blah.

    Fortunately I have a Bible next to me. I don't know what the King James version says precisely, but my New King James version includes a very important word that you either intentionally or mistakenly left out: "up to" = allowed.

    It says: Ezekiel 20:24 "Because they had not executed My judgements, but had despised My statutes, profaned My Sabbaths, and thier yees were fixed on thier fathers' idols. 25: "Therefore I also gave them UP TO statutes that were not good and judgements by which they could not live; 26 "and I pronounced them unclean because of thier ritual gifts, in that they caused all thier firstborn to pass through the fire, that I might make them desolate and that they might know that I am the Lord."' Ezekiel 20:24-26.

    At least in this translation the meaning is that God is very very displeased with thier idol worship (especially killing thier babies) and for this reason, His judgement will fall. Sin costs you everything. One lie is enough to send your soul to Hell without redemption. One sin is all it takes. Therefore God was telling them, "Ok, the whole of the Law is going to be required of you which no one can keep without any mercy so that in judgment I can rid myself of your filthiness!" (Paraphrased by Mr. B.)

    To all: No one should just take REB's comments at face value. If he lists a Scripture, go read it for yourself. He's twisting nearly everything to make evil sound good and good sound evil.

    As far as the commandment for the firstborn to be "offered to God" I've done so with my own son! He's dedicated by my wife and I to a service of God for life, and I hope that he follows that direction when he's old enough to choose for himself. Firstborn animals were sacrificed, yes, but firstborn human children were "redeemed" with a calf or a camel. God forbids child sacrifice over and over and over and over in the Bible and is a common reason listed for judgement against both ancient Isreal and thier pagan neighbors. You're cherry picking Scriptures and twisting the content to fit your disturbed mind and concept of God.

    You said: "Child sacrifice to foreign gods was so prevalent that it’s named as one of the major reasons why God sent the Babylonians to conquer Israel and forcibly take many of them as captives (II Kings 17:16-18)." Yes. I agree. Had the Israelites not been so wicked in their ways they would never have been a conqured and desimated people by the Babylonians, etc. That's the whole point. God isn't going to judge you for something He commands you to do.

    Briefly, I will explain who Jesus is and why the cross and Jesus "sacrifice" is essential to Christianity. God did not "sacrifice" Jesus in the way you are implying. He doesn't just want the joy of blood and gore and death. In fact, it broke His heart to see Jesus have to go through what he did for us.

    To be very simple, God is holy. His character is perfect; righteous; good; loving; but above all else, just. Sin expells a soul from God's presence unless there is forgiveness of that sin. Forgiveness is obtained easy enough for us now, but sin's price is not CHEAP; it's free, but it does come at a huge coast to God Himself.

    The animal sacrifices of the Old Covenent did not and could not take sin away; it just postponed judgment by seeking God's forebarence for one more year. God sees the heart and the intentions of the heart, not just the actions, that's why he says He took no pleasure in the thier holiday festivals and ritual sacrifices many times in Scripture. When one's heart is evil, it matters not what your hands are doing in the "service of God."

    The atonement for sin had to be a sinless one or else he too would fall under the same condemnation of sin. Jesus willing allowed himself to be that atonement for sin (God's requirement for our sinfulness). His perfection provided the way for those who will accept His acctions to receive forgiveness for sin and therefore the privelege to enter into Heaven when the time comes. Even the Old Testament faithful were waiting for this time in Paradise, not Heaven, until the time when Christ gave his sinless self for all who would believe. That is where Jesus went for three days before his resurrection where Moses, Ruth, and other rightous Old Covenent individuals could also "accept" His once-for-all sacrifice for thier sins too, and not just ours.

    In clonclusion, Tim is correct. I don't particularly want to see you or anyone go to Hell, but yes, that is where I think you're headed based upon who I preceive you are as a person. Just as Heaven is timeless and wonderful, so God in his justice must provide the opposite for those who are equally evil. Hell is hot and Hell is long, but the Bible says that "He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but the death of the righteous is precious in His sight."

    Also, "Not everyone who says 'Lord Lord' will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but those that do the will o my Father." The meaning is this: Many people have done many things in God's name (both in the Old Testament and the New) and even now, but many of them were not asked of them by God. Also, the New Testament talks about the separating of the sheep from the goats and the surprise of those cast out when God says "Depart from me you workers of wickedness for I never knew you!"

    God judges the heart and I dare say that many a religious person, deist, and/or even "Chrsitian" person will not receive eternal life in Heaven because all they did were from sinful and immoral reasons. Child molesting priests, theiving lying pastors, and the whatnot are no exceptions.

    But this is my last thought: All who truly repent is a new creature in Christ. Murder or even child molestation is not unforgiveable from a truly repentant heart. Only God will say who qualifies for Heaven in the end, but we can have a good idea based upon the life of those who claim to be spoksmen for God now. Be careful how you deal with Holy Writ (the Bible) for you will indeed be held accountable for every word you speak.

    Charles B.

    P.S. Martin Luther may have been "The Deranged Theologian" and Mother Teresa "The Ghoul of Calcutta" and Billy Graham a "paid government shill" but as long as they have a repentant heart, they will see God Face to Face. As Jesus told the Pharisees: "Protitutes and tex collectors are entering Heaven before you snakes!" (paraphrased) "Because they repented at the preaching of John the Baptist while you did not."

    Mr. B. my be a pile a gutter slim too if you only look at my life's biggest mistakes, but that's precisely what Jesus died for now, wasn't it? For those like me and you, and all who will believe.

  28. Reb

    I knew you would spew the normal canned response that you got from some desperate apologetic site. Human sacrifice is human sacrifice and all throughout history nations and religions have thrown the first born into the sea to calm the storms or into volcanoes to quiet the rumblings of the cruel and angry gods. Your bible god is NO different and the people despised him. How many times did yahweh whine to moses and ask how long with this people despise me? Who in their right mind wouldn't despise that damn demon? They did sacrifice their firstborn and you refuse to admit you serve a satanic god. It is well known that satanist sacrifice humans and drink blood so that pretty much alerts the thinking people who the bible god truly is.

    The KJV is the most corrupt of all bibles. Read the history of how homosexual King James hated the Geneva bible because it did not give kings the divine right over mankind and the RCC wanted the same status. The Geneva bible pinpointed the catholic church as the anti-christ in Revelation. The Geneva bible was the bible the first settlers brought to this country. They in turn hated the KJV and the king had forbade the owning, teaching or reading of any other bible but his piece of crap.

    There were many many versions of the bible even before the Geneva bible and they are all very different and the books contained within them are varied to a wide scale. The content always depended on the political atmosphere of location and who was in charge and what they needed the people to believe. You can read most any version online but that takes time and effort and christians now days only know what their con artist preachers tell them to believe. I wouldn't have a KJV in my house. It is also reported that KJ loved to hunt and kill animals just for fun and he would have sex with the dead animal and roll around in the blood. How do you people stay so ignorant? You don't know the history of your bible or how many there have been. You don't realize the KJV only came about due to greed and hunger for power and control over people by a demented pervert.

    Debating with you on anything biblical is a waste of time as you have little to no knowledge whatsoever about it. Run along and read the Sinai bible, the Companion bible, the Bishops bible, the Geneva bible, the Tynedale bible, the Wycliff bible, the Blue Letter bible and try to get the same story from them all. Just changing one word in a paragraph can change the entire meaning of the text completely. There is a version in the hundreds that have been edited to say just about anything one could want to say. That is why there are now hundreds and hundreds of versions. Whatever a person would like god to say, just find the bible that agrees with you. There is even a gender neutral version so not to offend women. If the true Creator ever inspired anything to be written I have the feeling it was "Be good to each other and take care of the world I made for you". What the hell else could be needed? You are dumb as a wet sack of doorknobs.

  29. Reb

    King James
    James ascended the throne of England with the "divine right of kings" firmly embedded in his mind. Unfortunately, that wasn't his only mental problem.

    * In those days an "open city' was one in which the inhabitants were allowed to believe in or print what they preferred

    King James I, among his many other faults, preferred young boys to adult women. He was a flaming homosexual. His activities in that regard have been recorded in numerous books and public records; so much so, that there is no room for debate on the subject.

    The King was queer. The very people who use the King James Bible today would be the first ones to throw such a deviant out of their congregations.

    The depravity of King James I didn't end with sodomy. James enjoyed killing animals. He called it "hunting." Once he killed an animal, he would literally roll about in its blood. Some believe that he practiced bestiality while the animal lay dying.

    James was a sadist as well as a sodomite: he enjoyed torturing people. While King of Scotland in 1591, he personally supervised the torture of poor wretches caught up in the witchcraft trials of Scotland. James would even suggest new tortures to the examiners.

    One "witch" Barbara Napier, was acquitted. That event so angered James that he wrote personally to the court on May 10, 1591, ordering a sentence of death, and had the jury called into custody. To make sure they understood their particular offense, the King himself presided at a new hearing (which could hardly be called a trial) and was gracious enough to release them without punishment when they reversed their verdict.

    History has it that James was also a great coward. On January 7, 1591, the King was in Edinburgh and emerged from the toll booth. A retinue followed that included the Duke of Lennox and Lord Hume. They fell into an argument with the laird of Logie and pulled their swords. James looked behind, saw the steel flashing, and fled into the nearest refuge which turned out to be a skinner's booth. There, to his shame, he "fouled his breeches in fear." 5

    In short, King James I was the kind of despicable creature honorable men loathed, Christians would not associate with, and the Bible itself orders to be put to death. 6

    Knowing what King James was we can easily discern his motives.

    James ascended the English throne in 1603. He wasted no time in ordering a new edition of the Bible in order to deny the common people the marginal notes they so valued in the Geneva Bible. That James I wasn't going to have any marginal notes to annoy him and lead English citizens away from what he wanted them to think is a matter of public record. In an account corrected with his own hand dated February 10, 1604, he ordained:

    That a translation be made of the whole Bible, as consonant as can be to the original Hebrew and Greek; and this to be set out and printed without any marginal notes, and only to be used in all churches of England in time of divine service.

    James then set up rules that made it impossible for anyone involved in the project to make an honest translation, some of which follow:

    1. The ordinary Bible read in the church, commonly called the Bishop's Bible to be followed and as little altered as the truth of the original will permit.

    Or, since the common people preferred the Geneva Bible to the existing government publication, let's see if we can slip a superseding government publication onto their bookshelves, altered as little as possible.

    2. The old Ecclesiastical words to be kept, viz. the word "church" not to be translated "congregation," etc.

    That is, if a word should be translated a certain way, let's deliberately mistranslate it to make the people think God still belongs to the Anglican Church - exclusively.

    3. No marginal notes at all to be affixed, but only for the explanation of the Hebrew or Greek words, which cannot without some circumlocution, so briefly and fitly be expressed in the text.

    James didn't want those pesky marginal notes cropping up, not even once. That was fine for the common herd, but not for James' own bishops. Many of their writings and sermons alluded to the Geneva Bible and its marginal notes decades after the King James Bible was published.

    The bishops had good reason to be confused. They needed those marginal notes. James had just obliterated a procedure that kings and governments had used for thousands of years. Because words and phrases quite often had several meanings all important state or royal decrees, treaties, and agreements contained marginal explanations or commentaries in order to remove all doubt from the mind of the reader. In the 16th century those marginal notes were called "glosses." Today the members of the legal profession use almost the same system in the form of footnotes and case cites.

    The King James Bible was finally printed in 1611. It was not technically a translation. What the flunkies employed by King James did was revise and compare other translations of which they simply plagiarized about 20% of the Geneva Bible. *

    * Translations from one language to another almost never come out word-for word identically.

    In their New Testament translation, the King James "translators" didn't even revise and compare. What they did was simply copy – almost word for word - William Tyndales' 1525 New Testament. At the time of his translation Tyndales' New Testament had been labeled as "seditious material" by Henry VIII and copies discovered on ships reaching English ports were confiscated and destroyed. William Warham, archbishop of Canterbury, even went so far as to buy all the copies he could get in Europe in order to destroy them.

    Tyndale was hounded from London to Cologne to Worms. He settled in Marburg under the protection of Philip, landgrave of Hesse. Nobody messed with Big Phil.

    Philip didn't care what anyone thought. If he felt like telling the emperor to "stuff it," he did. If neighboring royalty wanted to rumble, Philip showed up with troops. If Philip decided one wife wasn't enough for him, he just took another one. In March of 1540, after Martin Luther and other prominent Protestant theologians had expressly approved polygamy according to the Scriptures, Philip became Europe's best- known bigamist.

    Unfortunately, even Philip couldn't cope with treachery. Tyndale was betrayed by his personal Judas, Henry Phillips. He was tried for heresy, condemned, strangled at the stake, and his body afterwards burnt.

    It is interesting to note that the Geneva Reformers- men such as John Calvin - expressed opinions in the marginal notes that would be simply unacceptable to the "scholars" of today. For example, the passage in Genesis 12:2-3, that reads:

    "And I will make of thee a great nation, and will bless thee, and make thy name great, and thou shalt be a blessing.I will also bless them that bless thee, and curse them that curse thee, and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed."

    Our ministers today tell us this refers to Jews. That isn't the way the Geneva translators understood it:

    The world shall recover by thy seed, which is Christ, the blessings that were lost in Adam. 7

    Twentieth century scholarly works, such as the Scofield Reference Bible, published by Oxford University Press, hold that the 38th Chapter of Ezekiel refers to an invasion of Jerusalem by Russian armies leading the Northern European powers. John Calvin and his cohorts, who annotated the Geneva Bible, understood it a little differently:

    Signifying all the people of the world should assemble themselves against the Church and Christ their head. 8

    The Reverend Scofield and his fellow "scholars" hold up Satan as some sort of boogey-man. The Geneva translators, as in Psalm 109:6, simply translated the word, "adversary." In Mark 8:33, Christ said to Peter, "Get thee behind me, Satan." The Geneva translators understood exactly what the word meant and apparently didn't figure anyone else would be dumb enough to equate Peter with the Evil One. On that, the Geneva and King James translate the word the same.

    James did not stop at censoring the Bible. He carried his "divine right of kings" to the point that he dissolved Parliament. That institution was to James simply a convenience he needed to raise money for his endless pursuit of pleasure and depravity. When Parliament balked at his requests for money James dissolved it Magna Carta and the liberties of Englishmen were mere frivolities in the mind of James. As an illustration of the loathing and contempt Christians of that era held for the government of James I, it is interesting to note that after the first bitter weather in New England, when half their number were dead, not one of the Pilgrim survivors wanted to be taken back to the England of James I aboard the Mayflower.

    James' oldest son died and his second son, Charles, ascended to the throne after the death of James I, Charles also believed in the "divine right of kings." By 1642, English patience was at an end and civil war erupted. By 1649, the English Parliament had had enough of Charles, who apparently believed that one of his "divine rights" was to sign agreements and then break them any time he felt the urge. Charles was beheaded. Oliver Cromwell took over the government.

    Oliver Cromwell, of Celtic and Welsh ancestry, made the same basic mistake that James I and his son, Charles, made. Cromwell believed, as James had professed to, that governments were for the common wealth (good) and not the common will. He tried to legislate moral codes that very few could handle. The prisons overflowed with his critics. During his invasion of Ireland, he slaughtered enough women and children to fill entire graveyard& Cromwell died in 1658. The English had had quite enough of his form of government and acquired another king, Charles II.

    The last run of Geneva Bibles was printed in 1644. That was the year John Milton was invited to instruct the English Parliament on the actual teachings of the Bible regarding divorce (it was allowed). What Milton understood that none of our modern "experts" seem to was that "He who divorces his wife and marries another," was not a prohibition of divorce, it was a prohibition against throw-away people. As John Milton in his On Christian Doctrine and Martin Luther in his essay on Deuteronomy 21:15 pointed out, having more than one wife was Scriptural. You just weren't supposed to throw them away when you got bored with them.

    Four years after the last Geneva Bible was printed, the Thirty Years War (the last of the great religious wars of Europe) ground to a halt. Millions had died. Germany was so depopulated it took her two centuries to recover. The Reformation had survived. It didn't survive for long.

    After several generations of English speakers grew up without the stabilizing influence of the Geneva marginal notes, the "interpret it any way you want" school of thought came into fashion. The "charismatic" movement was in full swing by 1730.

    A few men here and there tried to show people what the religion of their ancestors actually was. A man named Ferrar Fenton published his own translation of the Bible in 1906, complete with a history lesson at the beginning of each set of books in the Bible. Another man named George Lamsa wrote "Idioms of the Bible Explained," and tried to show the errors of the modem scholars. They were drowned by the works of others.

    Michael H. Brown - 1988

  30. Charles B.

    REB: You do have a lot of knowledge about the Bible (most of it very twisted). Yes, you are correct King James was a terrible man; most likely never even read much of the translation upon whom it is named after. At one point in time I could read a great deal of Greek and a bit of the Hebrew texts which could do away with the "translation" problems a bit, as long as you know your stuff.

    You've inspired me to learn more and go deeper into God's word so that the very few like yourself who seem to be an athority on everything Biblical while believing none of it will have a refute from someone who actually does love God and hold His Word with respect.

    You forgot to mention how Wycliffe died. Wasn't he burn at the stake also for daring to translate the Bible at that time too? I think so. Amazing how much people of the past have suffered and even died to bring us the treasure of the Bible which so many of us take for granted now. Thanks for the reminder. It would have been so difficult to live in the days when one couldn't read the Bible for him or herself. Perhaps that is one reason why they are called the "dark ages".

    Anyway, I have concluded as far as Bible translations go, the one you read faithfully is the one that is the best translation for you. I would tend to preclude the Jefferson Bible however as it's just a shell, based upon Jefferson's own bias that anything supernatural was inpossible and added later by others.

    Thanks for the history lessons.

    Charles B.

  31. Reb

    Wycliff had many attempts on his life from the 'one true church' but he managed to avoid them and died in his own home from some illness. He had been dead for about 40 or 50 years when another church bishop had his body exhumed and burned at the stake and threw his ashes in a river. The mother church is indeed the mother of whores as the protestants followed the same hateful bloody path with their own crusades and inquisitions.

    That spirit still abounds in the minds of the 'righteous' who hate all others who do not agree with their chosen doctrine. A god of death and destruction is indeed the god of this world and I will take no part with it.

    You call my views 'twisted' but I am telling you the truth. Someone once said "if you want to make someone angry, tell them a lie. If you want to make someone furious, tell them the truth."

    Thomas Jefferson
    "I have examined all the known superstitions of the world and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."

    Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli. Article 11 states
    "The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

    Thomas Paine
    "I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible)."

    "Among the most detesable villains in history, you could not find one worse than Moses. Here is an order, attributed to 'God' to butcher the boys, to massacre the mothers, and to debauch and rape the daughters. I would not dare so dishonor my Creator's name by (attaching) it to this filthy book (the Bible)."

    "It is the duty of every true Diest to vindicate the moral justice of God against the evils of the Bible."

    James Madison
    "What influence in fact have Christian ecclesiastical establishments had on civil society? In many instances they have been upholding the thrones of political tyrrany. In no instance have they been seen as the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty have found in the clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate liberty, does not need the clergy."

    Madison objected to state-supported chaplains in Congress and to the exemption of churches from taxation. He wrote "Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."

    These Founding Fathers were a reflection of the American population. Having escaped from the state-established religions of Europe, only 7% of the people in the 13 colonies belonged to a church when the Declaration of
    Independence was signed.
    .....................................................
    Governments and religions are arms of the same rotten industry. One hand washes the other and they work together to deceive the masses while they flourish, one on the taxes they rob us of and the other on the money they con out of the simple in the name of their god baphomet. The bible tells this same story of lies and control from the very beginning.

    The first preist was a wise man who met a fool.

    It is funny how so many people have suffered and died for all sorts of lunatic beliefs and holy books of every stripe. If suffering and dying makes one right then we should all convert to Islam and strap a bomb around us and die for Allah. That would also say a lot for Jim Jones and his Peoples Temple mass suicide or Heavens Gate cult mass suicide for god. People have suffered and died for ridiculous religions, gods and causes since time immemorial and it means only some fanatics are also mental cases.

  32. Charles B.

    Reb: Ok. Well enough said.

  33. Achems Razor

    Again I say Wow!

    These comments are a learning experience.

    These comments should take some religious people out of their comfort zone.

  34. Tim

    Wow indeed. So much information to absorb. I wish I had more time.

  35. Reb

    Charles, I have great news buddy. Since you believe what the bible says and you practice what the WORD says, here is something you must have missed. There is no reason in this world a believer should be sick!

    Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith will raise him up. James 5:14

    Why are you, a believer sick when you could simply do these simple tricks? I have never met one so-called bible believer who believed and practised what they try and push off on others. Not only that but the bible says these are the signs that will follow those who believe, and that includes you Charles. They will heal the sick and raise the dead! How do you people heal the sick when you can't heal yourselves following your god's instructions? Christians pack secular doctors offices just like the rest of us and you never hear them say they are going to have an elder lay hands on them, annoint them with oil and pray the prayer of faith and get healed. Jesus said you could do greater works than he did but I bet you would crap your pants if someone with a withered arm seriously asked you to heal them. Then, on the other hand, you have the religiously insane who allow their kids to die before their eyes because they really believe this bible shit and keep praying, annointing and laying on hands while their innocent precious children die agonizing deaths. You faith is such a pious crock. If anyone asked you to please raise a loved one that just died you would have a cardiac arrest yourselve and think that person was loonie. It looks good on paper but even the 'believers' don't really believe it.

    The bible also says if a believer ask anything in the name of Jesus it will be done. I have known many sincere misguided people who really believed this stuff. They were fine people who would do good for anyone. I have seen them pray by the hours for dying loved ones. Their earnest prayers went unanswered. Sometimes entire church congregations pray in earnest for sick and dying members but they die anyway. The excuses you numbskulls come up with is almost infuriating. It is heartbreaking to see good people lose a small child to cancer and hear them pray and pray to a god who never answers. To add insult to injury some religious blowhole will always say something stupid like "it was gods will" or "god needed your child to come to heaven in order to show someone else the way". Bullshit. Those are the only excuses christian clergy could come up with to keep the family in the fold and putting money in the plate. That is as bad as our government sending young men to fight their illegal wars and die doing so, then they present a cheap ass medal to the parents to honor the fallen to keep the parents from digging to deep for the truth. Who was it that said "what fools these mortals be"?

  36. Tim

    Good points Reb. I eagerly await a response, as I've never actually heard a good answer as to why prayers don't always seem to work. The only answer I ever hear is "It was God's will," but that would seem to contradict God's word.

  37. Reb

    Tim, according to christians god answers prayer in this manner. Yes, no or maybe later. When it is yes it will happen but maybe much later at the right time. Don't give up, god works in his own time.

    If the answer is no, how can you tell? It might be a yes that you will have to wait years for.

    If the answer is maybe later, well hell, that is no better than yes or no. They figured out a cunning way to curb 'doubting' among the sheep because if you begin to question you will be responsible for losing your blessing or even worse, you might have hidden sin in your life. It is a win win situation for the deceivers and con job for the believers. Either way you lose because it is your fault.

    Even though the bible clearly says that anything a believer ask in the name of jesus, if they believe they will receive, there seems to be a hidden clause in small print that only the few have seen. lol You would have better luck with a child's eight ball toy.

    Look how many children are snatched everyday in this nation who most likely will be raped and killed. I am certain that many of those precious little ones died with a prayer to jesus on their lips. Where is the answer to that one? Also, what kind of god could sit and watch something like that happen to sweet innocent helpless children?

    Children in christian homes are taught that jesus loves them and has angels that watch over them. Talk about giving a child a false sense of security! Those kind of idiot parents should be horse whipped. Sometimes do a google search for Betrayal of Trust, Clergy Sexual Abuse and see the perverts that are really 'watching' the kids. It will turn your stomach.

  38. Reb

    BTW Tim, don't you just love to hear some of those morons pray for silly shit like "oh please god let my child get a good grade on his math test".

    Parent, why don't YOU see to it that your child studies and that should take care of that!

    Oh god, you know I want this new job and I would be so thankful to have it.

    How about being qualified for what you ask for? How about the others who apply who may be a better candidate? These nuts are asking god to pull some magic strings just for them.

    I detest watching pro sports and see those players with scripture on their faces who actually pray to win!! Do they really think a true god would give a damn about a game when innocent people are being blown to bits in illegal wars? Do they not think he might have others to think about like the sick, dying and the homeless and hungry. Those are the ones these jerks are supposed to be ministering to instead of worrying about a damn game. Friend, we live in a world of lies and greed. Then you have folks like Charles who doesn't have a clue. They flit about on the net trying to show the invisible people how righteous and godly they are and throw in a few hints of the everlasting lake of fire if you don't see things their way. What they have appears to be killing them with pious self-righteous overload and I for one will pass. Whatever or whoever is responsible for my being on earth hardly needs protection or explanation from me. I wouldn't begin to think I could speak for him/her/it. I do know that the maniac shaggy brutal war mongering lunatic of the OT is not the Creator and never is jesus.

    Isn't it also a hoot how the christians always portray jesus with blue eyes, light brown to blond hair and caucasion features when he was a JEW? Our god must look like us! He also is portrayed as highly effeminate. Did you know that Josephus wrote that jesus was a dwarf with a hunchback? One of the early church fathers also wrote that he was ugly with a unibrow!! I will find those writings for you. These are tidbits the preachers never share.

  39. Solomon S. Buyco

    Funny, when men declares their rule of engagement in war and won, they were praised... and they are well recorded. And when they lose, it is the will of God... because people are so wicked and sinful. But in fact, they win or they lose... the people are still the same.

    True, God doesn't care if you'll live or die. It is your fellow men who will be caring for you, either you'll live or die, but just the same... The Doctor will have the glory if you'll live but if you'll die, it is as usual, the will of God.

    I am not dreaming of a world that a lion will grass in the future...

    I have a post from friends about the "Bible Killings"... they are brutal... but who could judge but those who benefited from it and those who was annihilated by it. And as usual, Glory be thy father's name if successful and it is the will of God to be so, if failed.

    Anyway, they are now, having 'their own way' upon Christianity and Jesus in the New Testament... Same old way...Jews are the Evil forces who caught and imprisoned Jesus for blasphemy and Christians are the faithful that most of them was annihilated in their rebellion and had to sacrificed Jesus for the forgiveness of their sin. So, what sin are we talking about? Of course, the forgiveness of the Roman Empire of their failed revolutions! Those stupid fools, died in the name of 'their Messiah'! Ah, the power of deceit on "Graft and Corruptions"! When the real Messiah comes forth... His Words and Deeds was indeed forgotten.

    The Roman Empire... What about them? They are the guiding influence of the Government with the introduced Trinity. A son who is also a father in a Government's office function. A democratic way of living the life through the language, Latin.

  40. Tim

    Reb: This reminds me of Christian Science, which is horribly named because it has nothing to do with science at all. It's actually a kind of anti-science. The worst part is that it doesn't work, and yet people continue to practice it and insist that it DOES work.

  41. Reb

    Tim, I have studied Christian Science and just like Scientology, it is an experiment in one of the many CIA mind control projects (that was discontinued years ago....NOT). Most of the 'organized' religions are.

  42. Tim

    How are Christian Science and Scientology related to the CIA mind control projects?

  43. Reb

    Solomon, all of this goes way back to the ancient mystery schools. Who would have ever thought that the Essenes who produced the dead sea scrolls would have a strange attachment to Pharaoh Akhenaten?! It is amazing how often the word 'mysteries' is used in the bible yet few make that connection. That is why jesus taught the common people in parables so they couldn't understand but he took his chosen followers aside and revealed secrets to them. The bible is not what we have been told it is and it was never for the ordinary masses. It is a book written by and for those in the know. The book of The Revelation of Christ is just what it says and reveals him to be Lucifer and it tells us in plain words what is being planned for us. Every generation has believed Revelation was pin pointing them and it was. Since we don't know true history around the world we fail to realize just what horrors so many have lived to see. I am sure they all thought the end was here. Everyone thought Hitler was the antichrist and for many he was. The same can be said for every tyrantical ruler that has lived. Revelation is a book written in such a way that can convince every generation the end is here. If you go back and read sermons for the past 200 years the theme is always the same and they all see what we see today. The difference being in this generation, is the ability of the 'elite' to take it to the point of 'all or nothing'. This is an evil game for them and we are the pawns.

  44. Reb

    Tim, do a google on L. Ron Hubbard and mind control and you will get more info than you can stand. When you finish that, do the same with Christian Science. If for some reason you can't find anything let me know tomorrow and I will find the links I have saved.

  45. Charles B.

    P.S. Tim: I reread my post, and I said you misquoted the Bible, but actually I meant REB had. Sorry. I'm tired.

    Hear what I mean, not what I say! LOL.

  46. Reb

    Charles, not that it is any of your business but I find it appalling you have such a problem with my great concern for innocent children who are so frequently brutalized. Even you god had no compassion for them and allowed his thugs to rape and slaughter them.

    I worked several years in an elementary school and a large part of my job was keeping updated records on students who were in counseling for physical and sexual abuse. I am ashamed to say I never knew that problem existed to the extent it does and the things I heard and read about those children make me so sick and furious it has become my goal to make it known in hope others will become more aware. If what you experienced is true, you of all people should rejoice that there are people like me who actually give a damn. Most people don't want to even know such ugly things exist and children learn early there are few people they can trust and turn to. That should NOT be the case. I will speak about this issue loud and long until the day I die and if that displeases you then so be it.

  47. Reb

    Charles, I just read this part and would like to make one more comment to you and this will be my last. I may not be of the same faith as you but I am not a liar. I would never stoop to such a level to try and make a childish point. You sir, are the liar, YOU misquoted me deliberately and what little respect I had for you as being 'honest' in your belief is gone!

    You wrote: "First of all, it says when you are sick, to be prayed for, you have misquoted the Bible (as you always do) by saying that we should never be sick. You have to first be sick in order for God to heal you."

    I did not quote that line as part of the verses I was plainly dealing with. I was stating my personal view and that is a hell of ways from quoting and you know it. When healing by oil and prayer was taught to the churches they did not know at the time that existed for them until the disciples and Paul told them. If that is the case then if one of them from that point began to feel ill all they would need to do is go and get annointed and prayed for without suffering through sickness. Common sense should tell even a village idiot that much.

    This is my statement: "Charles, I have great news buddy. Since you believe what the bible says and you practice what the WORD says, here is something you must have missed. There is no reason in this world a believer should be sick!"

    Where did I quote scripture in that paragraph? Where!!!

    I then went on and quoted James 5:14 word for word as it appears in the bible. Once again I ask, Why do christians lie? Thank you for proving me correct and Tim, I hope you see why I said that in the first place. It always come down to christians lying to protect their views when they can't do it otherwise.

  48. Reb

    1400 years, which god is the one true god?

  49. Jarí

    Charles, you said "I’ve have friends where were miraculously healed of heart disease, cancer, and other life-threatening illness and medically proven to be healed."

    Do you honestly expect an adult person to believe what you just said? wow. lol.

  50. Reb

    Jari, you see he has already proven to be a gifted liar. I never once stated a christian couldn't get sick, I said there was no reason for them to BE sick if they really believe James 5:14. He accused me of misquoting and then deliberately misquoted what I wrote as if people here can't read for themselves. He needs to watch that video The Most Hated Family in America for I suspect he is part of that clan.

  51. 1400 Years

    @ Reb,

    "Praise is due to Allah (God) whose worth cannot be described by speakers, whose bounties cannot be counted by calculators and whose claim (to obedience) cannot be satisfied by those who attempt to do so; whom the height of intellectual courage cannot appreciate; and the divings of understanding cannot reach; He for whose description no limit has been laid down, no eulogy exists, no time is ordained and no duration is fixed. He brought forth creation through His Omnipotence, dispersed winds through His Compassion, and made firm the shaking earth with rocks.

    The foremost in religion is the acknowledgement of Him, the perfection of acknowledging Him is to testify Him, the perfection of testifying Him is to believe in His ONENESS, the perfection of believing in His Oneness is to regard Him Pure, and the perfection of His purity is to deny Him attributes, because every attribute is a proof that it is different from that to which it is attributed and everything to which something is attributed is different from the attribute. Thus, whoever attaches attributes to Allah recognises His like, and who recognises His like regards Him two; and who regards Him two recognises parts for Him; and who recognises parts for Him mistakes Him; and who mistakes Him points at Him; and who points at Him admits limitations for Him; and who admits limitations for Him, numbers Him.

    Whoever says in what is He, holds that He is contained; and whoever says on what He is held says He is not on something else. He is a Being but not through phenomenon of coming into being. He exists but not from non-existence. He is with everything but not in physical nearness. He is different from everything but not in physical separation. He acts but without connotation of movements and instruments. He sees even when there is none to be looked at from among His creation. He is only One, such that there is none with whom He may keep company or whom He may miss in his absence."
    - Imam Ali (may peace be upon him).

    -----

    "The foremost in religion (deen) is His knowledge." The literal meaning of deen is obedience, and its popular sense is 'code', whether the literal sense is taken or the popular one; in either case, if the mind is devoid of any conception of Divinity, there would be no question of obedience, nor of following any code; because when there is no aim there is no point in advancing towards it; where there is no object in view there is no sense in making efforts to achieve it. Nevertheless, when the nature and guiding faculty of man bring him in contact with a superior Authority and his taste for obedience and impulse of submission subjugates him before a Deity, he finds himself bound by certain limitations as against abject freedom of activity. These very limitations are deen (religion) whose point of commencement is knowledge of Allah (God) and acknowledgement of His Being.

    After pointing out the essentials of Divine knowledge, Imam Ali (pbuh) has described its important constituents and conditions. He has held those stages of such knowledge which people generally regard as the point of highest approach to be insufficient. He says that its first stage is that with the natural sense of search for the unknown and the guidance of conscience or on hearing from the followers of religions an image of the Unseen Being known as Allah (God) is formed in the mind. This image in fact is the forerunner of the obligation to thinking and reflection and to seeking His knowledge. But those who love idleness, or are under pressure of the environment, do not undertake this search despite the creation of such image, and the image fails to get testified. In this case they remain deprived of Divine knowledge, and since their inaccess to the stage of testifying after the formation of the image is by volition, they deserve to be questioned about it. But one who is moved by the power of this image goes further and considers thinking and reflection necessary. In this way one reaches the next stage in the attainment of Divine knowledge, namely to search for the Creator through the diversification of creation and the species of creatures, because every picture is a solid and inflexible guide to the existence of its painter and every effect to the action of its cause. When he casts his glance around himself he does not find a single thing which might have come into existence without the act of a maker so much so that he does not find the sign of a footstep without a walker, nor a construction without a builder. How can he comprehend that this blue sky with the sun and the moon in its expanse and the earth with the exuberance of its grass and flowers could have come into existence without the action of a Creator! Therefore, after observing all that exists in the world and the regulated system of the entire creation no one can help concluding that there is a Creator for this world of diversities because existence cannot come out of non-existence, nor can existence sprout forth from nothingness.

    The Holy Qur'an has pointed to this reasoning thus:

    ". . . What! about Allah is there any doubt, the Originator of the heavens and the earth ? ..."
    Al-Quran, 14:10

    But this stage would also be insufficient if this testimony in favour of Allah is tarnished by belief in the divinity of some other deity.

    The third stage is that His existence should be acknowledged along with belief in His Unity and Oneness. Without this, the testimony to Allah's existence cannot be complete because if more gods are believed in He would not be One, whereas it is necessary that He should be One. The reason is that in case of more than one god, the question would arise whether one of them created all this creation or all of them together. If one of them created it there should be some differential to distinguish him otherwise he would be accorded preferential position without reason, which is unacceptable to the mind. If all have created it collectively then the position has only two forms; either he cannot perform his functions without the assistance of others or he is above the need for their assistance. The first case means his incapability and being in need of others while the other case means that they are several regular performers of a single act and the fallacy of both has already been shown. If we assume that all the gods performed the act of creation by dividing among themselves, then in this case all the creation will not bear the same relationship towards the creator since each creature will bear relationship only to its own creator whereas every creature should have one and the same relationship to all creators. This is because all the creation should have one and the same relationship to all the creators as all the created in their capacity to accept effect and all the creators in their capacity to produce effect should be similar. In short, there is no way but to acknowledge Him (Allah) as the One God because in believing in numerous creators, there remains no possibility of the existence of any other thing, and destruction proves implicit for the earth, the sky and everything in creation. Allah, the Glorified, has expressed this argument in the following words:

    "If there had been in them (the heavens and the earth) any gods except Allah, they would both have certainly been in a state of disorder; therefore, glory be to Allah, the Lord of the dominion, above what they attribute (to Him)."
    Al-Quran, 21:22

    The fourth stage is that Allah should be regarded free of all defects and deficiencies, and devoid of body, form, illustration, similarity, position of place or time, motion, stillness, incapability and ignorance because there can be no deficiency or defect in the perfect Being nor can anyone be deemed like Him because all these attributes bring down a being from the high position of the Creator to the low position of the created. That is why along with Unity, Allah has held purity from deficiency of equal importance.

    "Say: 'He (Allah) is One (alone). Allah, the needless. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him."
    Al-Quran, 112:1-4

    "Vision perceiveth Him not, and He perceiveth (all) vision; He is the Subtle, the All-aware."
    Al-Quran, 6:104

    "So coin ye not any similitudes to Allah; verily Allah knoweth (every thing) and ye know not."
    Al-Quran, 16:74

    "... Nothing whatsoever (is there) like the like of Him; and He (alone) is the All-hearing and the All-seeing."
    Al-Quran, 42:11

    The fifth stage of completing knowledge of Him is that attributes should not be put in Him from outside lest there be duality in His Oneness, and deviating from its proper connotation - Unity - may fall in the labyrinth of one in three and three in one, because His Being is not a combination of essence and form so that attribute may cling to Him like the smell in the flowers or brightness in the stars; rather, He is the fountain head of all attributes and needs no medium for manifestation of His perfect Attributes. If He is named Omniscient it is because the signs of his knowledge are manifest. If He is called Omnipotent it is because every particle points to His Omnipotence and Activity, and if to Him is attributed the power to listen or to see it is because the cohesion of the entire creation and its administration cannot be done without hearing or seeing but the existence of these attributes in Him cannot be held to be in the same way as in the creation, namely, that He should be capable to know only after He acquires knowledge or He should be powerful and strong only after energy runs into His limbs because taking attributes as separate from His Being would connote duality, and where there is duality, unity disappears. That is how Imam Ali (pbuh) has rejected the idea of attributes being addition to His Being, presented Unity in its true significance, and did not allow Unity to be tainted with stains of multiplicity. This does not mean that adjectives cannot at all be attributed to Him, as this would be giving support to those who are groping in the dark abyss of negativism, although every nook and comer in the entire existence brims with His attributes and every particle of creation stands witness that He has knowledge, He is powerful, He hears, He sees. He nurtures under His care and allows growth under His mercy. The intention is that for Him nothing can be suggested to serve as an adjunct to Him, because His self includes attributes and His attributes connote His Self.

    @ Reb, let us learn this very theme in the words of Imam Jafar Sadiq (pbuh), comparing it with the belief in Unity adopted by other religions and then appreciate who is the exponent of the true concept of Unity; and which is the one true God,as you ask:

    The Imam says:
    "Our Allah the Glorified, the Magnificent has ever had knowledge as His Self even though there was nothing to know, sight as His Self even though there was nothing to know, sight as His Self even though there was nothing to behold, hearing as His Self even though there was nothing to hear, and Potence as His Self even though there was nothing to be under His Potence. When He created the things and the object of knowledge came into existence His knowledge became related to the known, hearing related to the heard, sight related to the seen, and potence related to its object."
    - in At-Tawhid (The Unity) by Shaykh as-Saduq, p.139

    This is the belief over which the Imams of the Prophet's (Muhammad's) family are unanimous, but the majority group has adopted a different course by creating the idea of differentiation between His Self and Attributes.

    "Allah knows through (the attribute of) knowledge, is Powerful through activity, speaks through speech, hears through hearing and sees through sight."
    - in Kitab al-Milal wa'n-Nihal, by Ash-Shahristani, p. 42

    If we regard attributes distinct from Self in this manner there would be two alternatives; either the attributes must have existed in Him from ever or they must have occurred later. In the first case we have to recognise as many eternal objects as the attributes which all will share with Him in being eternal, but "Allah is above what the people deem Him to have equals." In the second case in addition to subjecting Him to the alternations it would also mean that before the acquiring of the attributes He was neither scient, nor powerful, nor hearer nor beholder and this runs counter to the basic tenet of Islam.

    "... Allah hath decreed trade lawful and hath forbidden interest ..."
    Al-Quran, 2:275

    "And when you have finished the prayer remember Allah standing, and sitting, and reacting, and when ye are secure (from danger) establish prayer ..."
    Al-(Quran, 4:103

    "O' ye men! eat of what is in the earth lawful and good and follow not the foot-steps of Satan; for verily he is an open enemy unto you."
    Al-Quran, 2:168

    "(And) say thou [O Muhammed]: 'I am only a man like you; it is revealed unto me that your god is but one God, therefore whosoever desires to meet his Lord, let him do good deeds, and associate not any one in the worship of his Lord'."
    Al-Quran, 18:110

    "What! enjoin ye upon the people righteousness and ye forget your own selves? Yet ye read the scripture? What, do you not understand?"
    Al-Quran, 2:44

    @ Reb, hope this helps.

  52. Reb

    Thank you 1400 years for taking so much time to answer my question. As you probably know if you have read my posts I don't adhere to any organized religion even though I was born in what is erroneously called a 'christian' nation. Our forefathers never intended for one religion to usurp all others.

    Don't you sometimes wonder why different nations have different opposing gods? There is at least 3000 varying sects of christianity and more bible versions than you could shake a stick at and all of them can't be right if any at all are. One of our most famous founding fathers, Thomas Paine, wrote that "Religion is an accident of birth" and there is much truth in that statement. Children cannot help what they are born into and most times have no say in what doctrine they will choose. Their parents begin teaching them what they have followed and was taught to them by their parents and culture. When the RCC was at the height of power and the inquisitions were in full swing, the so-called true church of god happily went about torturing, raping, stealing and burning innocent people to death who dared to disagree with them. They slaughtered millions in the name of their god and destroyed one of a kind manuscripts by the thousands. They also put to death some of the brightest scientist in the world for daring to point out errors in the bible. Galileo was forced to recant his work and was under house arrest until he died. If the church had stayed in power we would most likely be living much as they did in the dark ages. They just took up where the OT hebrews left off killing in the name of their god. It just never ends. When I watch what is going on between Israel and the Palestinians it just makes me sick. As usual the innocent children are caught in the middle of an unjust war of greed and power. No imaginary god ever gave the jews a damn thing but they are doing as they always have, lying and killing.

    The protestant movement and breaking away from the mother church was a complete disaster and some of the most insane and cruel men led that so-called movement. They had criticized the RCC for it's lies and cruelty and turned right around and did the very same things to their own. When the puritans landed in this nation the witch trials began and ignorant superstition ruled the land. From there we have gone from one form of christianity to another and it continues to change as society changes. Most christians never read the bible and have no idea what a monstrous hateful book it is.

    I realized one day if I had been born in the middle east I would have been born to Muslim parents and that would be all I knew. If I had been born to Mormons, they would have impressed that on me. Few are ever encourage to question and examine what they have been taught. We are all in our personal little worlds of whatever culture and society dictates. Religion is a dividing force and people fight and die in the names of all these gods. I just have a very hard time believing any good deity would want his creations fighting and killing for his sake. If he wanted us dead, he would never have created us.

    I would never try or want to offend you because I think you are really a sincere person, but I believe religion is the cause of most world troubles. We forget that all people are humans just like we are and they love their families and homes the same as we do. If it was left up to the common people of the world we would never fight each other. Our leaders in governments and religion are the ones that conjure up reasons to fight. The common man gets to do the dirty work and die for what someone else decided should be. We destroy cities and towns. Peoples homes and schools are torn to pieces and we poison the very planet we all must share. That can't be right. Why do we need anyone telling us to treat each other as we wish to be treated when that should be the easiest thing in the world to do?

    I guess you could call me a Deist as I only believe in one Creator. As a parent of two, all I hope for my sons is they live a decent honest life and have compassion on all people. I highly suspect the Creator would love to see that from all his creations too.

    Maybe if we all refused to fight these horrible wars they would end and the governments and religious leaders would lose their puppets and their power. Soul searching is a good thing sometimes. Reb

  53. Solomon S. Buyco

    Ever wonder what is Trinity is for? It is not about 3 in 1, it is a topic's introduction that would lead into sabotage the concept of the three entity which are to be separated in one baptism... "In the name of the father and of the son and of the holy ghost"... in which to far from ..."I am the way the truth and the life"... the real Trinity is the Roman Government official's entity. A language for nationalism under the the rule of the Emperor. The son and a father that had a stature in the Governments office. The Trinitarians... or the Bureaucrats as they are called today.

    Jesus is as is as he was... no need for the denials but the 'freedom of choice' are established and not to be reconciled with religion. Free will is the concept of an action out of the the salvation that was allocated by religion... but just the same. It all needs an open door for any "prodigal son".

    Allah is the final form of creation. Those who do confesses the sin should repent but it should not to be done again as it would be a system hard to reconcile with temptations.

    If you'll take the stance of John of his Gospel, and lack the understanding about what 'they' are talking about, you'll presume that Jesus is the Devil... but in truth about its creation is Jesus is the guiding influence against the works and deeds of Satan... which is far more different from the works and deeds of Jesus.

    God bless...

  54. Tim

    Solomon, just curious, where are you from, and what's your native language?

  55. Solomon S. Buyco

    @Tim;...
    I don't want to mention my particular native language... but let me say a learned words to say in its compilations to use.

    @ 1400;...
    This rings a bell for every one:

    78. They said: Hast thou come unto us to pervert us from that (faith) in which we found our fathers, and that you two may own the place of greatness in the land? We will not believe you two.

    Faith and reason... this Moises and Aaron, but as it was, "I believed that someone had said this, "My father is dead, long live the King!" Maybe, just maybe, same true with the Pharaoh. A problem arouse from them... "New King, new race"... or relatives for religious for that matter.

    And what is it about I usually heard on rebellions... "Oh, you discontented mothers... Look what you have created?"

    Peace...

  56. Reb

    Solomon, I have the same question as Tim as I am having a bit of a problem following you written thoughts. I do appreciate you respect of other views but I wish I understood you better.

  57. Charles B.

    Jeri: yes, I do have the friends healed from cancer and heart diease and asthma just like I say. How rude of you to call me a liar. I've listed their names earlier on a different thread, but it's not right to cater to your insult.

    Why don't you just yahoo or google testimonies of divine healing? Or look up the links I gave you? I'm quite sure you will find thousands and that number is not an exageration. I've met people divinely healed every where I've gone in the world, and many of them can be medically proven, yes. I met one of the Blackwood brothers (the singing group) who was divinely healed of the same cancer that killed Patrick Swazey. Intstantly. Miraculously. Perfectly. I shook his hand and listened to his story. Google the group and see if you can find his testimony, but please never call me a liar again about such information.

    Reb: You know I wasn't trying to include your quote as being directly from the Bible. I was quoting you and you were quoting the Bible. I cut and pasted, and put quotes around what you had wrote. Anyone can see that. This is an example of a cut and paste with quotes around it and what was actually typed:

    "Charles B.
    December 13th, 2009 at 14:25
    Reb: You said “Charles, I have great news buddy. Since you believe what the bible says and you practice what the WORD says, here is something you must have missed. There is no reason in this world a believer should be sick!

    Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith will raise him up. James 5:14

    I’m responding because Tim wanted to hear a response, not so much for you, REB.

    Tim: This is for you.

    First of all, it says when you are sick, to be prayed for, you have misquoted the Bible (as you always do) by saying that we should never be sick."

    Anyone can see where your insulting ends and where the Bible quote begins. What an odd thing for you to latch onto. Perhaps I should have said: "you are misrepresenting this quote by insinuation" that we should never get sick, but then you would have just found some other insult to harp on.

    Anyone can clearly see I wasn't inferring that what you said was part of the Bible.

    I've also commented extensively on the Most Hated Family in America already and you can read it if you like.

    Please abide by your suggestion and stop posting to me and I will do the same as obviously you have no sense of honor and understanding.

    P.S. I never said I didn't care about abused children. Why are you putting those words in my mouth? I am saying you equate them either intentially or unintentionally with Christians and Christian matters. Never stop advocating for those that are innocent and in need of our assistence, but do so in an ethical mannor. Please.

  58. me

    Solomon is a troll...

  59. Kelly K.

    Charles B.

    I think you just have to "man up" to use a nice Southern term and just turn the other cheek and let REB have the last punch. She/he is arguing from past hurt, I'm sure, so you cannot win against such. Perhaps she had someone close to her that was a "Christian" that hurt her or she feels like God failed her in time of need. We all have those times. It just depends on how we respond. Let 1400 years, Chris, Sol, or even me have at it for a while. And if no one steps up, just let it pass.

    Yesterday I talked to a woman and she said that Christmas was so sad for her. She went on to explain that her 17-year-old daughter died on Christmas morning after four days in the hospital after being ran over by a car walking home from work three years ago. To my shock, however, she said it helped her find her "love" for God again. I was stunned and I don't stun easily. You just have to let REB go if you can. Where one turns to God, others hate Him for and each for the exact same reasons which is usually very personal.

    REB: Me thinks you protest way too much against something you say is powerless and full of "bull" such as the Bible. Give it a break and be civil and you're arguments will carry more athority and respectibility. Tim is right. You should apologize to Charles B. at least for being personally insulting.

    KK

  60. Solomon S. Buyco

    Words are meant to be read not of the man therein... Have you heard about 'privacy'?

    Eyes are made for seeing and not for reading... maybe it is the reason why 'my words' are not read enough.

    As it is, bird species of the same feathers flocks together....

  61. Reb

    Kelly, I don't know who pulled your string but I know that no gathering of hypocrites is complete without the ever ready tongue wagging busybody for jesus and you sure fit the bill. Solomon is right, and you flock of buzzards waste no time trying to peck someone to pieces who doesn't have the same 'christian' love as you wolves do. As for Charlie boy manning up, you gotta be kidding.

    Matthew 7:5 declares, How can you say to another, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

  62. Kelly K.

    Solomon:

    KK now says: "Water from a sweet well is the best water of all. Drink deeply!" You sound like a Hawaiian. Whoever called you a "troll" was sadly mistaken and cannot judge character very well.

    KK

  63. Kelly K.

    REB:

    I read your comment that if you want to make someone mad, then tell them a lie, but if you want to really make them angry, then tell them the truth. You got that right! My baby blues see just fine, thank you very much.

    KK

  64. Reb

    KK
    Excuse me satan but your 'christian' mask is slipping and your fangs are beginning to show. You need a refresher course if you are going to continue to try and fool people.

    Proverbs 20:3 It is an honour for a man to cease from strife: but every fool will be meddling.

    2 Thessalonians 3:11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.

    1 Timothy 5:13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.

    1 Peter 4:15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.

  65. Achems Razor

    Howdy all!

    "Reb"...says it the way it is, not holding back any punches, that is good, give em hell! Religion that is.

    And I admire "Kelly"... because she is not scared of anybody, and has a lot of empathy.

    "Charles"... to me is a kind soul. I do not care if he is Religious, I respect him.

    To me all the bashing back and forth means nothing, it is a "given" in
    Religion and Politics.

    But Hawaiian or not, I haven't a clue as to what the hell "Solomon" is talking about!

  66. Reb

    Achem, you are a real person and I like that. I guess the Constitution is still in effect for us 'heathens' so I shall continue on.

    BTW, I saw jesus today wearing a t-shirt that said "What would I do".

  67. Kelly K.

    Achems Razor:

    It's good to hear from you again, and again you made me laugh out loud! Sometimes the one-liners are more effective than the whole-pagers. I never got around to looking up "time" as everything else got so exciting to read here. Who needs a soap operah when we have this website? I do want to look up 1400 years' links however. All his efforts should be respected with our effort at least to hear what he has to say.

    I really do need to get some work done, but I just can't keep from checking back to the "Vladko Springer Show" to see what Trollette has posted last. The full-grown mountain troll is my favorite minor character from the Harry Potter Series. Have you ever wondered how they got that sleeping troll out of the women's restroom at Hogwart's or better yet, where did they put it?

    I've done some work in the school system too and I really dislike the playground "bullies". They all desirve a "wand up the nose" if you ask me.

    KK

    P.S. How do you like my new "fangs"? Need I brush more? How embassing have them seen in public.

  68. Achems Razor

    Reb:

    Thank you. I certainly learned a lot of things I never knew before, from you.

  69. Achems Razor

    Hi, Kelly,

    Nice to hear from you also. I am not really into Harry Potter series,
    even though I have a few hard cover books of hers.

    Actually I did watch "1400's" ten links, the 4th one about Emperor Constantinople garnered my interest.

    Yes I have to admit, I was glued to these comments also, did not even watch the Doc. comments are better in some cases.

    Well, your new Fangs would be good, if you where into "Gothic",(LOL)

    :D

  70. Tim

    Is KK lycanthropizing? She might be a warwulf.

  71. Charles B.

    KK: Charles B.

    I think you just have to “man up” to use a nice Southern term and just turn the other cheek and let REB have the last punch.

    Ok. If I can. It's a little like letting your least favorite fat friend have the last pork chop or two (or three) at the church potluck; it's just hard to let it go!

    Ok. True story time! My mom and dad love church potlucks too, as all good "Southern Christians" do. Dad especially. He ate all the fried chicken, perhaps a bit too eagerly with seconds and/or thirds and after the last piece was gone, mom walked up to the empty dish and said "Oh, good! Everyone ate my fried chicken." Dad, to his surprise said, "Mother, if I had known that was your fried chicken, I would have eaten something else and we could have just taken the leftover chicken home!"

    What Mr. B. learned from the story: Always ask the Mrs. what she's making for potluck so you can either conserve it or help it disappear depending on the situation at hand! LOL,

    Mr. Razor: I would rather have you learn something from me than from REB. If I could figure out a more complicated way to say that, I would, but that's the heart of the matter.

    REB: I wish you weren't going to "Hell in a handbasket" as you're actually almost intelligent in a very rude sorta way. You could do more good if you were a Christian rather than a deconstructor of all that is good and righteous. Seriously. Sharper stones than you have tried chipping away at the Cornerstone of Christianity, who is Christ Jesus, and they have yet to even make a dent in the true Church's foundation.

  72. Solomon S. Buyco

    I'd rather be a hammer than a nail...

    Nice try, KK. Heheheheh

    "See what awareness brought into you, and seek what you need from it... but as it is, if it is no use, you could live it as it is... Others may be in need for a such."

    Solomon S. Buyco :o)

  73. Tim

    Wise words, Solomon. Well, I didn't really understand any of it because of the language barrier, but it sounds better than what most people have to say to each other.

  74. Kelly K.

    Tim: No, Tim. I'm all human. ;-) I reather dislike extra body hair.

    Charles B. Put the porkchop down and move away slowly! Think leafy green veggies! Much better for you for the church potlucks.

    KK

  75. Kelly K.

    Solomon: I'll try harder next time.

  76. Achems Razor

    Kelly K:

    This has got to be weird.

    I was just taking a break from watching "wolf" with Jack Nicholson, and Michelle Pfeiffer, and you are talking about extra body hair. lycanthropizing. Warwulf?? But it is not a full Moon yet. :D

    Solomon!...what can I say!

  77. Tim

    Razor:

    If you want to see a great werewolf movie, I recommend the Mystery Science Theater 3000 viewing of "Werewolf."

    Preemptive apologies to Vlatko for being waaayyyyy off topic.

  78. Charles B.

    I've got the hair, just not the fangs! I just finished watching "The Werwolf of Washington" on another movie site; old by creepy.

    OK, true story time! Back a while ago when I still care about going bald, I was using that minoxidol crap ya have to spray on your bald spot twice aday. I was pretty dedicated. Unmarried at the time, I had "mom" spray it right where I needed it (yeah, sad I know).

    Peachfuzz is not very encouraging, but I did notice I started looking more and more like my uncle Bigfoot. So I got that stupid bottle down and read the fineprint and it said and I quote: "CAUTION: May also cause excessive body hair growth." :-( So now I'm bald and STILL look like Bigfoot. Oh well, I'm married now. No biggy any more unless I want to run for president and then I would seriously consider "implants" as the Bosley advertisement woefully points out that we've not had a bald president since the advent of television.

  79. Achems Razor

    Is everybody into Werewolfs tonight? Heheheheh.

    Some good Werewolf movies.

    American Werewolf in London. (1981)

    Dog Soldiers. (2002)

    Company of Wolves.(1984)

    Silver Bullet. (1985)

    The Howling(1981)

  80. Solomon S. Buyco

    @Achems, I don't like having pet, like dogs... I'd prefer a cat, so that you don't have to care where and what it will do... Try adopting one!

  81. Achems Razor

    I'd rather be a ratchet than a nut...

    Good thinking "Solomon". Cats are independent.

  82. Charles B.

    Cats are selfish. But, I've always loved cats too. I'm not sure why. My dad hates them passionately. He thinks those that like cats are selfish also, but I'm not. A true cat lover has to not mind being "used" by his "pet"! But a nice dog is nice too. I also love fish and birds and I'm quite dissapointed that when I take my son to the pet shop, he cares less, and wants to watch the video games there. I wonder if being a naturalist is in-born in some people but not others.

    An observation: A dog will come to meet you when you come home and be happy to see you. The cat will run to the door waiting for you to open it up for them. It's true.

    Anyway, I wish people would watch my links and tell me what they think about the Red Sea crossing, evidence found there. etc.

  83. Solomon S. Buyco

    Well, Red Sea crossing... Have you known that three richest man on earth believed to be an Illuminati have perished in Titanic? The Titanic was commandeered by Smith...

    Thousand of people have died there...

  84. Tim

    That's interesting Solomon, but I'm not sure I see the connection.

  85. Ben W

    Wow .. these are some of the most un-enlightened opinions I have ever read. Enjoy your religious prisons.

  86. Charles B.

    Ben W: Prison?!? No way! "Whom the Son sets free is free indeed." That doesn't fit how I feel nor does it reflect the truth of the matter at all. Enjoy your small dark world with out God. All of the universe and endless days to love and live and learn and grow and no less than God's magnificence itself is my heritage and future forever. That, sir is no "prison".

  87. Charles B.

    1400 Years: you said: "If we accept God as our goal, freedom will be harmonized with our growth and development. Our efforts to develop and progress will take on content and meaning, thanks to the divine impulse and the desire for eternal life. In short, the desire for progress and advancement, once regulated by the worship of God, neither contradicts man’s freedom nor results in his enslavement."

    Wow! Very well said. Thank you for posting this.

    Sincerely,

    Charles B.

  88. Solomon S. Buyco

    Why would I bother going into 'bananas' with science? Science is just a promise. If you don't have money to sustain it, science is nothing but a dream. Think about it, electricity bill, internet subscription bill, gasoline bill, credit card bill, water bill and among other bills... everything about science is money!

    But as it is, King David's magical mystery on the 'Holy Box' is it turns brass and copper into gold by electricity.

    Anybody encountered Baghdad's battery and Egyptian's electric bulb? Just as what scientists said: "It works!" :o)

  89. Kelly K.

    To all:

    "1400 Years's" argument condensed and concentrated is trying to say that "Man is not truly fulfilled until he embraces his destiny of knowing and serving Allah."

    Correct?

    KK

  90. Achems Razor

    Kelly K:

    Yes.

  91. Tim

    Wait wait wait. So reaching OT9 won't make me fulfilled? Are you saying all that time and money I spent auditing was a waste???

  92. Faith

    I have couples of point that I would like to make here regarding the Bible; FIRST, to understand something or to believe in something you have to test it and prove it, just like the apostle Paul said" Prove all things; Hold fast that which is good" 1 Thessalonians 5:21; I did my test I took a Bible course which was limited because they teach you what they want you to learn and believe but not what you want to find out or to know because no one may not be able to answer all your questions,so I studied the all Bible from Genesis to Revelation verse by verse and trying to understand the all scriptures because the Bible course is always limited;

    OK, this what i found out in Genesis, God created all things and a Man and a Women, and then God planted many trees and one tree in the midst of the garden, then commanded them not to eat it; This is my problem, according to the Bible, we hear that God can read people's mind and tell the future, also He is omnipotent and omnipresent, But why God couldn't tell that the woman will transgress? or maybe He knew and let it happen; where was He when they were transgressing or even when the serpent came to them?

    Christians will say, they were free to choose, yeah right, If they were free to choose so why did He give them the command in the first place? Another one, "Genesis 3:8-14" when Adam and Eve heard God walking towards them they hid between the trees, still God couldn't see the all thing(since He sees everything), and called upon Adam, now just read this part in your own Bible, you can tell that God was still unaware of the situation until Adam told him that" I heard your voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself" and God still unaware, asked him back" who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree,..."; Was is this, someone please explain to me is this the God that we say is Omnipotent and Omnipresent and specially was aware of everything, what a joke; and still didn't know that it was the serpent that deceived the woman first and the woman deceive Adam, until HE was told so;

    Now think here, if me as human with less wisdom than God, cannot even put a fire or a knife or a gun or porn in the sight of my children, because it's obvious that if I did, they will touch it, since they don't have any experience, to avoid something like this, I'm just going to put it away, period. That's my opinion as I do use my wisdom.

    SECOND point is, According to the Bible, Adam and Eve had 2 children, Cain an Abel, when Cain planned to kill Abel, God didn't know that?(since HE KNOWS AND SEES EVERYTHING), He watched HIM KILL HIS INNOCENT BROTHER, or maybe HE knew that but couldn't stop it since we have a free will?(THIS IS NO SENSE PERIOD).

    THIRD, there were 3 beings left on earth after the murder of Abel, and then Cain went to dwell in the land of Nod, and Cain knew his wife, OK, THIS IS TRUE LIES, WHERE THAT WIFE CAME FROM? HEAVEN OR WHERE? Since the Bible is incomplete and doesn't prove itself to be true, I do take as man made book with a lot of errors, no like the Apostle Paul said in "2 Timothy 3:16", there is no reproof here or correction, so I made my decision that, whoever wrote this book, probably didn't know what he was writing about.

    FOURTH, God couldn't tell that Abraham loved Him but HE had to test him(SINCE HE KNOWS EVERYTHING),"oh! I forgot HE WAS JUST TRYING TO MAKE SURE"(WHAT A JOKE),and this is not a usual way to test someone by telling him to sacrifice his only child, this tells you that there is something wrong about this, WHY NOT SOMETHING ELSE BUT JUST TO SACRIFICE YOUR OWN CHILD? this is what we see in some occult practices.

    FIFTH, read how Jesus himself makes this comparaison in John 3:14" And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up", WHAT? It's obvious that Moses lifted up the serpent twice before Pharaon and in the wilderness when those serpents was biting the sons of Israel, Moses made them a bronze serpent Image so they can look at it and be saved from the torment; We all know that the serpent it's a curse reptile that represent evil(YOU THE JUDGE), this is the same way people were looking at Jesus on the cross. For those who don't know, the first five book of the OT were written by Moses, so if Moses wrote it, since he's the one that lifted up the serpent and gave different names of God, what are we looking up here because Jesus himself gave no names, since Jesus always said MY FATHER, that's it;

    All so co-called Christians need to read the Bible like I did to try to understand, no just read one verse here and one there, PROVE YOUR FAITH, if you cannot, that means that you believe in lies. Just for the record for those who don't know, the NT was written before the OT, that's why they tried to make the OT feet in with the NT, but the result is: IT CONTRADICTS ITSELF. "I BELIEVE IN LOVE" because it is natural, you don't need religion to teach you how to love, some are born with it and some are not, and it is the parent job to teach the children how to love for those who don't have it; RELIGION, CULTURE, SOCIETY, NATION, CLASS,... are the only boundary we have that prevent the human kind to come together once again before the fall of the tower of Babel, I bring this subject because if you read from yourself this scripture attentively you will see my point"Genesis 11:1-9" I don't personally see their wrong doing for building a city which top is in heaven, first of all who can build a city which top is in heaven, I don't know?

    we have a lot of architects today who build skyscrapers but they still cannot reach heaven; Second of all, since they saw that man were ONE, they come to create confusion" let US(the same US from Genesis 1:26)go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech". Now judge from yourself, look at us today still living with the same confusion, diversity of languages(different from one another, so confusing), diversity of religion(waring against each other, divided churches, for what reason? we don't know), diversity of classes(Rich and poor, rich becoming richer and poor becoming poorer), we are still leaving in that confusion from the tower of babel, that's why we are still divided, any one thinks he's better than the other(my religion is better than yours, my culture is better than yours, my language is better than yours,my nation is stronger than yours), so divided;

    How do they confused humans?, Let Us go down, they came on earth as spiritual people, kings, leaders, in one words as elite to teach mankind different religions, cultures, languages and laws, so we could not agree with each other but arguing, fighting, killing in the name of who or what you defend; By the end, you will realize that only mankind killing mankind, man ruling man, it's all us, just like some Muslim extremists blowing out christians for the sake of Allah, and Christians doing the same all over the world against no Christians, just like Hitler a Nazi but Christian who thought killing jews(non-christians), he was doing it for christ. I'm done here by this phrase:" WHY GOD DOESN'T INTERVENE WHEN CHURCHES ARE DIVIDING FOR FALSE CAUSES , WHY NOT COME DOWN AND TELL THEM CHURCH LEADERS NO TO DIVIDE IS CHILDREN SINCE IS ALWAYS THERE". WAKE UP MANKIND!!!

  93. Faith

    Check this out, God told Adam and Eve that,the day that they will eat the fruit of the tree, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they will surely die; But the serpent told Eve, that you will not surely die, for God knows that in the day you eat this that your eyes shall be opened, and you shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. Look what happen afterwards, their eyes were open just like the serpent said, and they knew that they were naked(ability to see and observe deeply), and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons(this is knowledge and creativity);

    Afterwards Adam said" i hid myself because i was naked (this like conscience here): just like kid, they don't feel ashamed of being naked even in public until they get that knowledge from someone or may be when they grow up their consciences make them feel ashame of being naked, and then they start to cover their nakedness because they can now observe since they know the difference; But what happen Neither Adam nor Eve died after eating it (we all know that if you eat or drink something that will kill you, don't you supposed to die in the next moment), but what happen is that they didn't die right away, just God cursed them 3, and after, look what the Lord God said in Genesis 3:22" Behold,THE MAN IS BECOME AS ONE OF US, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever";

    Now you the judge, first, man were created like THEM but he didn't know because the truth was conceal from him, but after eating it he realize that in what state he was and acquired knowledge, so he didn't die but everything happen the way the serpent told Eve( So who's telling lies and who's telling the truth(YOU BE THE JUDGE).

    My point here is that who is the one that the bible represent as Serpent? propably they should not use the name"serpent" but "an eye opener"; If really the serpent wanted Adam and Eve to die, they would die right after they ate the fruit but didn't, instead they acquire knowledge, so God cursed them for receiving knowledge or for transgressing? We all know that even in our society that one can become a victim or be in danger for receiving a concealed truth or knowledge kept from him or other, and he is called "betrayer" any one that betrays a person, a group or organization whether good or evil, would you curse someone for revealing lies or truth? I think for revealing the truth, since the secret is known to WHOEVER WASN'T SUPPOSED TO KNOW, we see this in real life in our society and sometimes in movies too. WE NEED SOME EXPLANATION HERE???

  94. Solomon S. Buyco

    @ Faith... I don't need to go through the elaboration of the 'creation' in the Bible such as 'Adam and Eve'... They represent the humans on the 'tree of life'.

    On free will, have you heard about salvation? The beginning and the end is the free will, but in the salvation is a beginning to begin its journey of its own free world... 'the prodigal son' story is also in in this troubled world. The father have spent some more to welcome him home back on what the prodigal son have spent... which loses another son in return.

    This is where the problem. God took the image of man but the consequences are on it as you see is that, men became like Gods...

  95. Falcon

    To Faith:
    I'm not a bible believer, but you are wrong. They died just like God said, because they became mortal humans. That was what the serpent wanted.

  96. Faith

    To Falcon:
    Who told you that, when they were created, they were already eternal? The bible doesn't even tell you so, it doesn't say nothing about that, Give me the verse and i will agree completely, i need prove to prove;(Don't add to my words or take away from it), Do you remember this verse? According to the story, it seems like , they never even touched the tree of life yet, because , God wanted to take it away from them , so they cannot live eternally" Let Us take them away from the garden, less they eat of the tree of life and live eternally". Why it was taken away just after God saw that they ate the tree of the middle of the garden( the tree of the knowledge of good and evil). Don't defend what you can't even argue about. Another question???

  97. Faith

    Have you ever heard about incarnation? Because John the baptist was one, he had the spirit of Elijah; What about DNA? A man blood line extends to many generations, probably a person may even incarnate in his own blood line again, who knows? This is just my opinion.

  98. Faith

    How come , they never found the Garden of Eden since the river Euphrates goes by it? Because what? God put a flaming sword so that nobody can still see it? Ya right!

  99. Faith

    To Falcon:
    Use your head here, since it seems like, you never study a word over and over again to understand it; Don't just defends something because you think it's going to save you, believe what is true, but no lies and confusion; Don't you even ask yourself, if man kind was supposed to be eternal, how would the earth be today( or maybe the garden)? since man kind do multiply, don't you see that earth would be filled with people, and there wouldn't be no space enough for us all, and how would it be today? still living with our ancestors from the beginning?

  100. Solomon S. Buyco

    Hmmnnn... Faith is burning....

  101. Falcon

    To Faith:
    Relax...take medication if you need it.
    So what you are saying is that you (and the serpent) is smarter than God...because with the Tree of Life, God would have created overpopulation on the earth? I'm not even a bible believer, but what do you know about the original intention if it all were true? Anyway, eternal life could be something completely different than everybody living on a planet forever.

  102. Faith

    To Falcon:
    This is your problem, what do you know about eternal life? try to defy the word, You tell me to take medication, are you crazy? I didn't say that the serpent was smarter than God, You see, you are still a baby that need milk, yo are not ready for a solid food yet, Do you know the difference between a Creator and a God? Creator is the one who create for good or for bad, a God is the one that needs worship, Don't you understand why Jesus was just saying Father but never God, and said my Father is your Father also, this is the difference, since you're not even a bible reader, I won't even discuss with you, because I'm just repeating what the bible says(so called "word of God"). It seems like you have little knowledge for you age, ask for wisdom when you need some brother; why God so powerful have to send his own son to die in the hand of sinner? so that you can be saved? open your eyes! Remember in the book of the prophet, when God said to the sons of Israel that" the days are coming when I will put a new spirit and a new heart in you", what happen to it? and why God has to send his own son to die for you falcon so you can be saved, you are dreaming! The bible says that nothing is impossible to God, So Now we need the tree of life that was in the garden so we can eat of it or It was Jesus that was in the garden , because Jesus said that "I am the tree of life" and "before Abraham was, I am"; also "whoever will not eat of my flesh and blood(that's mean a tree?)will not be saved", this is just nonsense; In the beginning there was "Us"(polytheism), but from Noah, it was only" one god"(monotheism), so what happen to the Us from the beginning. Anyway if God were so powerful like we all know, why even the serpent found a way in the garden since there was always angels keeping the garden? Jesus even said" To go to a strong man house, you need to bound him first and spoil or destroy his remnants", remember this, when the pharisees and Sadducee said that, Jesus was casting demons by the help of Beelzebub; and again Jesus said that, every kingdom divided against itself cannot stand( what is he talking about here?)what kingdom? Since we all know that they were all together until satan rebelled against God, and he took 1/3 of the angels with him, so happen after? Nobody knows the secret of the beginning, so don't just believe anything. BY THE WAY I'M NOT SICK, MEDICATION IS FOR SICK PEOPLE, A SICK MAN CAN EVEN REPEAT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS? U HAVE NO REASON AT ALL" FALCON CREST".

  103. Falcon

    Is it Happy Hour in the asylum?

  104. Solomon S. Buyco

    Falcon, what you need is brain reprogramming. That is modernization.

  105. Faith

    No offense but, I wonder, how old are you Falcon? I cannot see any wisdom on you brother, I think you need to come out of this darkest box that you are in. SAVE YOURSELF BECAUSE NOBODY ELSE WILL COME AND SAVE YOU, UNTIL WE ALL DIE AND RETURN TO DUST.

  106. 1400 Years

    Youtube: "What Do Muslims Think of Jews Event" posted by ShababAlMehdi

  107. Chris

    Wow! I mean, "wow!"

    What an interesting thread. One thing is pretty clear. Organized, traditional religions have committed a great deal of evil in the history of the world in the name of God who gets blamed for it all.

    So many hurt feelings and so much outrage has been expressed. Yet few really possess a transcendent understanding of Life and the Scripture. It's like so many are at the bottom of a deep well. I suppose that is the nature of this life. As usual, Charles B. is the closest. I would invite you over to my house for dinner if I could.

    Reading all that, especially Reb's exhaustive diatribes, has completely drained me. It was very interesting but I have nothing to add. Thanks to everyone who contributed -- especially the angry ones. They teach me the most of all.

    Best regards,

    Chris

  108. Solomon S. Buyco

    Well, you'll have to sit tight for the time to comes as no one seems to know what is in the hearts of those people who are benefiting from all the sufferings, and as always there is God to blame for.

    When God becomes flesh everybody listens and cursed the flesh but when God becomes God, God was blamed for everything that misfortunes befalls and starts looking answers from God . So, When a flesh becomes God, everybody fears and crumbles but did not see the Devil.

    May the Lord of King David settles in your hearts...

  109. rebelliuss

    there are some very interesting posts on here as well as some deeply weird ones.. but as for religion.. it's all about what gets you through the day... my problem starts when people start talking about the "One true God" as if it's been proven... and how if you don't worship him/it you're then you're going to hell because you're evil. remember there is no real proof of any god.. that's why it's called faith... i could have faith in Obama ending the wars within the next month.. doesn't mean it will happen... and in my opinion (and it is just an opinion) if there is a god as powerful as all these religions claim... why the hell would he need us to bow down to him\it and serve him\it.. any god i would believe in would judge from your actions towards your fellow man\woman and not from how much you said you worshipped him... i'm sorry these gods of the 3 big faiths are a little too vain for my liking.. but good luck with that...
    and whats with all this heaven and hell nonsense.. if your only doing good things or believing in your god to get into heaven... wouldn't your all knowing deity see through that?

  110. X

    Religion is a system of institutionalized traditional mind-control. god(s), ghosts, demons. They are all delusions.

  111. BBC

    One day, i will make it through all these comments, and actually watch the documentary. 1400's will take me a week to go through.

    How is the doc? I would really like to watch it.

  112. Solomon S. Buyco

    @1400's... try some "Book of Jobs" you might find it interesting to learn of 'graft and corruptions' in the making of the Messiah stories just to get by for a while but in the long run if you really want some big houses and luxury cars; and live a life of an Anarchist, try to learn the making of the Christ stories... and defunct someone in their own turfs and world with it...

    Peace be with you all...

  113. Achems Razor

    The CA (cosmological argument) hinges on, if the universe is finite or infinite. The CA is basically a play on words.

    Fractals, The Mandelbrot set, goes to infinity.

    Stephen Hawking defines the limit of smallness of the Universe to a Planck length, but the jury is still out on that, taking the Mandelbrot set into consideration.

    If the Universe is of infinite smallness-to the negative of Planck length.
    Then the proof of God, or no God, lies with science, not any supernatural beliefs.

  114. Chris

    (sigh...)

    The Mandelbrot set and infinite fractals are mathematical constructs with NO basis in reality, just as 'infinity' is a concept used in abstract mathematics and not in the real world. There is no such thing as infinity in the material universe - it is impossible. You beg the question when you present a statement as a scientific fact without basis. In fact, you do your argument no favors by pushing science into the realm of myth and legend.

    How many of you have set two mirrors facing each other and looked into 'infinity?' Would you say that all the images are 'real worlds?' It's not real, people!

    To "believe" that infinity or infinite regress exists in the real, physical universe is to believe in the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus (...and you would say that I was the one who was trying to get people to believe in supernatural beliefs.). If you do not understand why infinity cannot exist in our reality, then please go back to a Jr. High School that teaches math. Good grief, no wonder the United States is falling behind.

    You do not have to believe in God, but please don't insult our intelligence. Offer up something other than science fiction, opinion and wishful thinking. Again, I say that the CA is not religion. It is a logical argument based upon Method.

  115. Achems Razor

    (sigh...) is right.

    Again you are putting words in my mouth.

    I know Mandelbrot sets are math constructs. Have not said otherwise.

    Just taking the Mandelbrot sets into consideration, since the whole universe has similar characteristics, sited them as examples.

    And you have to know me, before you question my intelligence.

    You, and no one, knows for sure, if infinity does, or does not exist in the real world. "Yet".

    Again I will say, if they can regress the universe to the negative of planck time. That will prove infinity.

    I agree, the United States is falling behind, thank the stars I am not an American.

    Easter bunny or Santa Claus?? How about throwing the "talking Snake" into it??

  116. c2

    Wouldnt infinity increase the chances of a god or gods existing? Maybe not of our universe but others?

  117. Achems Razor

    @c2:

    Be careful, infinity seems to be a bad word for religious people.

    And according to them, Parallel Universes are just something scientists threw in because they could not come up with anything better.

  118. Solomon S. Buyco

    Pi is not infinite but it has its functions for people to work out with its infinite value.

  119. c2

    The mandlebrot set is infinite, but it had an inteligent designer. Mandlebrot inteligently designed the Mandlebrot set. The possibuility of it existing accidently are there. Sort of like infinite chimps with infinite typewriters eventually coming up with king lear. I dont rule out intelligent design just simply look at all the intelligent designing we humans do every day. It seems to be in our nature, and since we are made of the same stuff that the universe is I cant see why this process of creation too couldnt exist in higher and stranger forms. All that said Im agnostic, I really dont know.

  120. Yavanna

    It's just taken me hours to read this discussion - Reb write a book (or did you just paste it here) - I for one will buy it.

    People - one thing - is this a competition for who can write the longest post? Ever heard of quality not quantity? How is it ever possible to follow discussions like this unless they are kept to a respectable length.

    PS Solomon - you post in many discussions - what is the harm in revealing your origin, belief system and native language? I`m sorry but I amongst others really struggle to understand you and it would be helpful if we had some terms of reference.

    PPS Chris(t) - still trying to sell Plato's old weary word play as science?

  121. Yavanna

    Reb - Forgot to mention - I have something like a dozen websites queued up for later from what you have said however what I would really like to get into research-wise is the dead sea scrolls. You seem really up on this. Would you mind making a thread on the forums so we can all discuss that as a subject in it's own right? Would really appreciate it if you could put us on the right path to discover the truth on this issue.

    Forums isn't quite the Siberia it once was and might be useful amongst out "community" to discuss the more tangential issue.

  122. Chris

    Yavanna,

    Still failing basic math and science, I see. Oh, but you're getting a passing grade in your Science Fiction appreciation class. Well, that's something...

  123. Yavanna

    Chris - Peace off. Grow some balls and answer the questions I`ve made of your fraudulent BS hypothesis instead of insulting someone you don't know.

    I`m guessing you are kind of old; afraid of your impending demise and seeking some comfort in your pseudo intellience. Good luck with that pillock.

  124. Solomon S. Buyco

    @Savanna,

    ====(PS Solomon – you post in many discussions – what is the harm in revealing your origin, belief system and native language? I`m sorry but I amongst others really struggle to understand you and it would be helpful if we had some terms of reference.

    PPS Chris(t) – still trying to sell Plato’s old weary word play as science?) =====

    Well, I am honored that you have put me in the shoes of Prophet Paul(not to be confused with Apostle Paul) although I am sure it will not fit...

    Anyway, as for the references, any written words or name could be simply be traced back. You are a Police as you have mentioned... Well, I am just a citizen... and here, we have the upper hand in laws to be served. That would be true in laws... but not necessarily in practices.

    Being a believer of Christ is just the same with those I have you as a police in comparison... There is still a law that reign over, but reality is... Superman exist, so is Spiderman and Batman. Fighting "graft and corruption" is not just about fighting people but fighting their evil ways. Just like, for example, Prophet Paul is not Apostle Paul... and as of the discussion along with them, lions will not be living in this planet earth eating grass... and the Romans have proven their points with Prophet Paul.

    I am sure you are aware that no Police could Police a Police... but the man on the spot.

  125. Chris

    Incorrect, my friend. I'm only a few years older than you, am in excellent health running after my 2 year old son, have plenty of peace and confidence regarding my "demise" (whenever it arrives for all of us). And, for the record, have indeed answered your questions with far more dignity and intelligence than you afforded me in your drunken posts.

    The problem is that you just don't like my answers and always take refuge behind the same immature suspicion that I am trying to convert you. You just can't seem to get around it. If I make a valid point, you dismiss it because you are so sure I'm trying to convert you, so you can't yield any ground. You dismiss everything I say, not because you have anything intelligent to contribute, but because you are convinced it will lead to religion. Get over yourself!

    If you read my first post, you will be reminded that I had originally wanted to see someone post a LOGICAL and SCIENTIFIC response to the Cosmological Argument. No preaching. No converting. No ulterior motives. But you immediately jumped to that conclusion. "Look out! Here comes the Christian! He's gonna tell us the earth is only 6k years old! He's gonna tell us we are all goin' to h**l" How very juvenile.

    Instead of posting an intelligent educated answer, you 'claim' that the CA is 'debunked' based as much upon your lack of understanding the CA as by your failure to comprehend the scientific method, logic and reason. Just like your 'God Debunked' friend, you misrepresent the CA, reframe it, and then claim to have debunked it. By your previous answers, you not only fail to understand the CA, you lack a basic understanding of mathematics and science. And because you lack the proper education, you have become a "heckler" on the sidelines of life -- making jeering, snide comments and insults at those who have more than two intellectual coppers to rub together.

    I challenge you to return to my posts and find the SPECIFIC flaws in the logical AND scientific arguments I have posted. I further challenge you to post those flaws for everyone to see and understand your thinking, just as I have.

    You should have more confidence in yourself that you can look at different sides of an argument objectively and with a eye to seeing the truth without succumbing to the dark side.

    Well????

  126. Scientist

    If you believe in God, you are unscientific, irrational and illogical. Period.

    Why can't you marvel at the instinct of a singular cell that MAY have been dropped by aliens out on a picnic in space, to ultimately become a duck-billed platypus and a bee and a bat and a sloth and a whale and an eel and a cicada and a primate - over millions upon millions of years by trial and experiment, death and rebirth? I mean, do consider how a blundering cell MIGHT have died in its attempt to get on its way to ultimately becoming a crocodile, then cleverly PROBABLY left behind its notes on how it advanced and what MIGHT have gone wrong, and then another blind cell, instinctive by nature and without a brain, MIGHT have picked up on the left over notes and over millenia, experimented and grown and died and on and on until you and I see the variety of life as it is today.

    How much more definitive and sure do you want us to get to drive into your dud brains that evilution is quite a plausible theory-fact??

    To me it sounds PERFECTLY logical, mate.

    And then look at us: how we observe and research flies and grasshoppers and gnats and other insects and birds and bats that became what they are without any sort of technology - only chance, and sheer determination; and us what with our wonderful cerebrum and technology, make our imperfect helicopters and jet planes and what-have-you based on what we observe in the perfect in nature?

    Now what God do you allude to, Chris? Methinks you need to check your "more than two intellectual coppers"; they are totally fake. Now go. Check them!

    By the way, you write very elegantly. Before morning, you must say a thank you to the monkeys that nurtured your talent for writing. They must have picked it up in a raw banana shoot they sucked on in Burundi millions of years ago and then engineered your complex DNA to make you a genius.

    All through chance, yes, but ... er ... just shut up now okay? Or I will actually start insulting you properly.

    P.S.
    Mark: I am a very highly morally upright self-righteous person. I never mean to offend. How can I ever think of doing so? Hypocrisy? Na; not in me, mate.

  127. Yavanna

    No Chris you didn't respond to more than a third of my original post. Stop lying, sighing, insulting and preaching.

    "I have grandchildren to visit." I had to check back; So I'm not going insane, I guess you and your family breed early and into your dotage.....

    You clearly have a problem with real people having the occasional drink much like any other smug Xian. Take your beef to whom cares what your morales are. I was the only one to really give you and your intelligent design option any credence. What I have been rewarded with is ignorant twattish abuse.

    There is no scientific response to your philosophical debunked argument nor is one necessary. No more than there can be definitive proof of the non existence of your god. You are clearly too stupid to see that. Your problem not mine. And the problem with stupid people is that often don't know it. Yet accuse other's of a lack of intelligence....

    "I challenge you to return to my posts and find the SPECIFIC flaws in the logical AND scientific arguments I have posted."

    Read my posts again. Asking the same stupid questions over and over is no evidence of dignity old boy. You have been answered previously. If you don't like the answers then tough.

    You are air here on in. Reply with further insults and I will cite you with non compliance of site rules.

  128. Reb

    Yavanna, I will try my best to get a thread going for you this weekend. I have been rather busy as of late but I highly recommend you google the website of Ralph Ellis and read his articles there. One cannot understand the bible without knowing just who the so-called OT patriarchs really were. Ellis is one of many who has discovered their true identity and this is not new. Freud also figured out the Hyksos Shepherd Kings of upper Egypt were the biblical figures under other names. Where these people came from remains a mystery but they violently invaded upper Egypt and reigned there for many generations until the true Egyptians of lower Egypt were powerful enough to overthrow them and kick them out. The stories are fascinating and the OT mumbo jumbo will make much more sense. They were and still are horrid vicious brutes amply reflected in the OT brutal tribal god yahweh. Also, the famous Egyptian historian Manetho is informative on the Hyksos as is Josephus.

    BTW, don't waste time on Chris. He is another hate filled pious hypocrite who can't answer a straight forward question. If you've seen one, you have seen them all. sigh

  129. Yavanna

    I`ve been reading up on Mr Luther this morning and have found a very interesting article on holographic rapture. I'll post the link on the NWO thread.

  130. Chris

    Band of hecklers. What a waste of carbon. I offer you food, yet you insist on slop. I leave you to your conspiracy theories, UFOs, science fiction and wishful thinking. Take what comfort as you can as the day draws to an end. And someday, you will remember our conversations, as you lie on your soiled beds, bitter, alone, forgotten, and wishing you had paid better attention, as you breathe your last.

  131. Achems Razor

    It is better than being an arrogant know it all, with a superior attitude, what I class as a "Brain Surgeon".

    Have fun waiting for the "Rapture"

    And I suggest reading a good book that is almost as old as the Bible, "How To Make Friends And Influence People"

    :(

  132. Scientist

    Yeah!

    If only Chris had the brains at all to read and understand the Gospel of Dawkins, he wouldn't be muttering under defeat like that, now would he!?

    Oh, these theists, just why can't they see the definitive logic in evilution!

    Chris, you clearly did not evilvolve right; hope your apes try harder next time to evolve into more intelligent apes.

    And for your God's sake, read the Gospel of Darwin and his of his apostle Dawkins. They know it all; and no, when they conjecture and speculate what could have been, they don't conjecture and speculate. They are scientists and so their's scientific.

    It's simple as that.

    Can't you just get it?!

  133. Scientist

    p.s.

    Band of hecklers? Band of hecklers?

    How insulting of you!

    But then you seemingly are a theist so you are wont to be so!

    Come on, be a sport! Evilvolve even now as you are alive. There's still much time. You can do it!

    You can write, you can read. Imagine how hard it must have been for the apes to become the geniuses that comprise the definitely-know-all club you've just insulted!

  134. Reb

    Rapture??!! Research project bluebeam. This technology is approx. 60 years old as is the HAARP program.

    Chris, from your last post I suspect you are in great need of professional help and I urge you to get it. You are beginning to sound like Jim Jones and see yourself as a god. You're not. You think you have it all correct. You don't. You believe you can force your dogmas on the world. You can't. You think everyone should strive to be LIKE YOU! We DON'T. You are a sad sad little man.

  135. Achems Razor

    Reb:

    I knew about the HAARP program, they took that from Tesla.

    I did not really know about the holograms for the Rapture. Of course the religee's, will think it is real. They see the the body of the big JC. superimposed on anything they will all, in there Rapture, be waiting for the Rapture! NWO. one religion.
    Probably what the Chem. trails are about.

  136. Solomon S. Buyco

    @ Faith, Jesus is a Christian... as baptized by John the Baptist... and also a Roman citizen paying His taxes. Don't be blind of your monotheism approach in reading and understanding Jesus. There are so many hokus-pokus in reading words. So, be aware of them, especially those approach of asking you on how Christian are you... where in fact, they are just asking you on how do you live your life but the effect is different from what the words are meant to be.

    "Do unto others what you want other do unto you."

    By the way, don't blame those who buy people but learn about those who kidnapped and sold the people. Wake up on your secret world that you have lived in.

    We all have enemies but to me, there are only evil people. In US, they kidnapped people and offer them to their God as human sacrifice . In Europe, they kidnapped people and use them as sex slaves. So, in your area, they kidnapped people to sell them.

  137. Faith

    Solomon:
    You don't even make sense on what you're saying.First of all,Jesus wasn't a Christian,he was the son of God and born from Jews parents(not romans) and kept the Jews faith;Christians is first mentioned in the"Acts of Apostles"which means the followers of Christ and "Christ" means"Messiah" or "the Anointed One".John the baptist also(which was Elijah incarnated) wasn't a Christian, he was a Jew,born from Jews parents.It's seems like you don't even read what the Bible says about Jesus.This is sad,i can just tell how ignorant you Christians are.What about when they asked him about paying taxes to Caesar:"Master,it is lawful to pay taxes or not? He told them:whose inscription or face is on the coin,and they replied"Caesar",so he said:give Caesar what belongs to Caesar and give God what belongs to God".Anyway,i did read the Bible more than probably you did,so come up with a real answer or question here.I guess i don't even need to argue with you because you are just ignorant and do not know what you are talking about.Get some wisdom,please.

  138. Solomon S. Buyco

    Hey, hey.. cool down Faith. You are on fire again. since I am ignorant already and have not yet given a chance to prove what I am saying.. So, I let it be. But I tell you, Jesus is a Christian and a Roman citizen.

  139. Yavanna

    Deja Vu Solomon

    You`ve said this Jesus was a Christian Roman thing on previous discussions. He was a Jew. Unless you are talking of some other Jesus. He was no more Christian than he was a Scientologist. Neither "religions" existed whilst he was about.

  140. Reb

    Anyone else ever notice Solomon can type perfect english when he chooses too?

    Anyway, Yavanna is right. Jesus was born a jew, lived a jew and died a jew. Paul was the Roman agent who tried to destroy the zealot movement of Jesus and when you can't beat from without, infiltrate and destroy it from within.

    The jews sought to kill Paul on more than one occasion and who did he run to for protection? He always went to Rome. No jew in his right mind would have ever requested to be sent before Caesar. Ceasar would have never given audience over a religious dispute among jews. Paul claims over and over to be a jew but he was a Hellenized version of jewish christianity. He invented christianity and people choose his teachings over what the bible reports Jesus taught. Paul's doctrine is the feel good doctrine and just as Luther later preached, he taught that 'grace' will always cover sins no matter how much one sins. Jesus said if a man has been born again it is impossible to sin and anyone who looks back is not fit for his kingdom. Paul was the arch enemy of James the Just and how that point can be missed is outrageous.

    The writers of the dead sea scrolls refer to two man who are not named but highly qualified scholars believe according to the complete text regarding these men that the one referred to as "the spouter of lies" is Paul and the one called "that wicked priest" is either Jesus or Ananius.

    The zealots and sicari were brutal fanatical religious mafia who carried short dagers they could hide under their robes and kill opponents in a crowd and move on without detection. We know at least Simon was called "the Zealot" we know that Peter was armed with one of these mini swords because he cut off the ear of a soldier. He apparently knew well know to use it. Judus Iscariot is a rearrangement of letters to avoid his true title which was Judus the sicariot, just move the s and i. The 'ot' on the end of his name designates he was a leader of such a cult of killers. When you understand what the term "sons of thunder" meant that Jesus used to decribe some of the disciples, you will be on the track to seeing these men in the true light.

    That is why it is taking so long to get all the scrolls translated and exposed. I understand from many trustworthy sources that there is still a professional 'non-disclosure' agreement forced on anyone who has access to the complete translation. I guess the trouble is how to tell the world they have been lied to from the get-go and also, religion is a trillion dollar a year business and the corrupt people at the top who thrive off of deceiving the masses will go to any lengths to keep the complete lid on this foul pot of lies.

  141. Achems Razor

    Reb:

    Thanks for the link. Yes, that site is mind-blowing!

  142. Achems Razor

    Ha,HA,

    Did notice Solomon can actually be lucid in his writings sometimes.

    There must be someone coaching, helping him at times, either that, or
    he is a split personality.(LOL)

  143. Achems Razor

    Faith:

    Most all religions had there source since antiquity from worshiping the Sun.

    The sun (son) the light of the world, the ever-giver of light, Gods only sun (son).He walked on the water, sun rays dance on top of the water, darkness was called "seth", sun seth (set)

    The "halos" of religion is nothing more than the personification of the sun.

    It is all astrological. It is all on "Zeitgeist" the movie, here on TDF.

    Religion is the greatest story ever told.
    That is all it is, a story!! Nothing more, nothing less.
    Religion has no substance, only belief!

  144. Solomon S. Buyco

    Well oh well... You know, it would be difficult to see and know the killer/s in the image of its victims.

    If you know the tradition and practices of Jew, they don't baptise by water. They circumsize and offer sacrifies for one to be a Jew. They wash their bodies though, to cleans themsleves before going in to a pray.. (not prey, lol). So, here is in the words of Jesus to those who questions Him. "On whose authority is John in doing his Ministries then?"... If you could not answer them, So then, I rest my case as Jesus have...

    But to keep you on the right track in the Bible, here it is:

    Matthew 21:
    23(AL) And when he entered the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came up to him(AM) as he was teaching, and said,(AN) "By what authority are you doing these things, and who gave you this authority?" 24Jesus answered them, "I also will ask you one question, and if you tell me the answer, then I also will tell you by what authority I do these things. 25The baptism of John,(AO) from where did it come?(AP) From heaven or from man?" And they discussed it among themselves, saying, "If we say, 'From heaven,' he will say to us,(AQ) 'Why then did you not believe him?' 26But if we say, 'From man,'(AR) we are afraid of the crowd, for they all hold that John was(AS) a prophet." 27So they answered Jesus, "We do not know." And he said to them, "Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.

    As for those Roman thing,
    24(AI) When they came to Capernaum, the collectors of(AJ) the two-drachma tax went up to Peter and said, "Does your teacher not pay the tax?" 25He said, "Yes." And when he came into the house, Jesus spoke to him first, saying, (AK) "What do you think, Simon? From whom do kings of the earth take toll or(AL) tax? From their sons or from others?" 26And when he said, "From others," Jesus said to him, "Then the sons are free. 27However, not to give offense to them, go to the sea and cast a hook and take the first fish that comes up, and when you open its mouth you will find a shekel.[g] Take that and give it to them for me and for yourself."

    And here is what would a double pay came in for the welfare of men;
    Matthew 22:21
    They said, "Caesar’s." Then he said to them, "Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s."

    The lesson on the two sides of the coin is not about good and evil... it is as it is, money.

    By the way, an old Bible of Kingdom of David was found but unluckily I did not copy the link. It was posted in Yahoo! The bible is as old as the Kingdom of David. The Bible is with numbers along side of the verses. It was King David's religion, Christianity.

  145. Reb

    Solomon, you don't know what you are talking about...at all! The Essenes who wrote the dead sea scrolls were jews who had left Jerusalem and lived in the wilderness. They thought all other sects of jews had become worldly and forgot the OT laws. They believed all of the OT laws should be enforced and that they would bring about gods kingdom on earth if they lived solely by those laws. YES, THEY DID BAPTISE!!! They believed in ritual baptism and did it several times a day. John the baptist is now believed to have been an Essene as they took in young boys who had lost fathers. John was born to very aged parents so most likely he was raised and taught by them as was Jesus. If you ever get off your butt and research the scrolls concerning the living habits and beliefs of those people you might say something that makes sense. Baptism existed long before christianity. In fact the Egyptians practiced it.

    The Essenes had all things in common just as jesus and his merry men did. Jesus was a zealot for the OT laws just as the Essenes.

    Also, do you ever notice that all through the NT the pharisees and sadducees are mentioned over and over in a very negative way but Jesus nor anyone else ever mentions the Essenes. They were not a small unknown sect but were very large. They also had members who chose not to live in Qumrum who kept homes in other towns, that is why Jesus and his disciples always had a place to stay. The bible writers knew if they included the Essenes that someone my begin to put two and two together. They never reckoned on anything such as the scrolls hidden that would someday blow the lid off their little secret. Once you read the teachings the Essenes followed, you will see the great similarities to what Jesus taught. Jesus was an initiate of the Essene priesthood. The Essenes also were obsessed with Pharoah Akhenaten of Egypt and the copper scroll was a map to his treasures. The hebrews were hyksos shepherd kings of upper Egypt who were kicked out.

    Yes, the jews were taxed by Rome and it was Herods job to make sure they paid. That is why the jewish tax collectors were so hated. You know very little and really need to educate yourself before you spread your nonsense.

    Faith, keep on that track and you will be amazed.

  146. Yavanna

    I would challenge anyone to scientifically rebut my stork theory!!!!

  147. Yavanna

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    Solomon S. Buyco “A Briefer History of BS”

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  148. Kurrrt

    "God" perhaps for lack of a better term -are those who are above their technology level -of thought and explanation.
    Which eliminates the existence of occult, the paranormal, or transcendent realities from the questionable words of those born of sticks and stones. I'm no expert, but. Nothing else will make a civilization kill more then religion with a one God, a flag, and a border to protect. What kind of God on a massave size planet of love, would ever send or even allow any Army to kill men, women, children, and babies?

  149. Candide33

    Thomas Payne was right. Charles B is extremely cruel, hateful and mean, it is easy to see that he is a Christian. His god is the demon that advocated bashing babies against rocks and throwing sex slaves to the rape gangs to be raped to death. Religion is government protected hate groups and nothing more. When the governments of the world stop pandering to theses hate mongers then there will be peace on Earth but not before. The religion myth no longer has any place in the world except in the fiction section of the library. I am so glad that atheism and agnosticism is growing at a rate 10 times as fast as religion, that means there is hope for the future. Hope that has been missing from humanity for 2000 years, the hope that ancient Greeks like Plato and Aristotle and Hippocrates had begun to cultivate and Christianity extinguished in its infancy.

  150. Candide33

    Everyone come join my religion!
    My god is a lot smarter than their god, my god never talked to anyone because she/he knew that speaking to an individual would only lead to corruption and lies.

    My God does not have a name because she/he never needed one.

    My god does not accept donations because she/he knows that whoever collects the donations will keep most of it and live like kings while the poor suffer.

    My god does not have a gender so she/he never set one gender into servitude of the other gender.

    My god never intervenes in the affairs of the physical world because the universe would become unstable if energy were diverted from source to another.

    My god does not ask for prayers because she/he knows that they are just a waste of time since she/he can never intervene in the physical realm anyway.

    My god loves all of his/her creatures and would never have chosen one group over over another because my god is completely fair in all things.

    My god does not sanction one religion over another because she/he knows that they are just tools of division, so he/she doesn't have one.

    My god never told anyone to kill because killing is evil and my god isn't evil.

    So what do you all say? Sound like a deity you could all get behind?

  151. WR

    So the whole Temple Mount issue is about one cult of polytheistic idolators against another cult of polytheistic idolators.

    Yes both Judaism and Islam (and Christianity I might add) are polytheistic, and idolatrous. They worship books (that is a collection of words) as Gods, just as they worship their founders. Moses is a God, as is Muhammad, and of course Christians already acknowledge their belief of Jesus as a God. And Abraham is a God to them all.

    And of course they worship geographical locations - unfortunately sometimes the very same piece of Earth. So in their blind denial of their own idolatory, they rain Hell on each other in order to possess their God.

    The Yahweh of the Temple of Solomon died with the building's destruction. So, please, all you religious Jews, make up your minds - either that Yahweh was a limited, vulnerable, tribal God, who has been lost to the mists of time along with Solomon's temple and the priests, or he is the universal God or Divine principle also known as Brahma and Gott and Jumala and the Wandjina Spirit, in which case you have no monopoly on Him, and neither can any particular chunk of real estate.

  152. Connie

    I can't believe I read (almost) the whole thing.
    I even read thru my biggest fears. What started out as a little R&R as I slumber by way of food for thought aa the medium of another Documentary has just took me for a complete 360.
    I am not afraid of snakes, serial killers, a little dirt or grease But I do not like spiders. Yet I was engrossed with this dialogue because curious minds just have to scroll down too far.
    Because I sat here near the air conditioner that I haven't yet sealed,I also am discovering bugs and spiders that I didn't know we had in upstate NY. All for the glory of reading this posting board.
    May I thank you or the enlightenment,the tears, the full pledged belly roars and the funniest word swinging gladiatorship.
    Faith with all due respect you crack me up the hardest , because you sound like I did when my hormones were our of balance and I was still using just the Bible and encyclopedia as main main sources of study, that was about 8 yrs ago.
    Ahh ! and just think after all this timeof endless hrs of day and night research I can neither confirm this or that without a contradiction or knowing it is all borrowed.
    Cyclopea ( The all seeing eye ) and yet I am still blind.

    What do you think REb and Charles can I set in? I have been on a long Sorjourn and am weary. Can I rest here for a while and refresh I'll try to make it fun.Every time I think I am on the hottest trail of truth I only find myself back in the 360 starting point. I feel at ease here for many of my stop overs on my journey have been to places of things you disscuss , Yet I feel I know nothing and am now too tired after traveling this postville RD I can only address you with a wave Hi and return when I can.

    Thanks! You are all great ! and each of you reflect pieces of a whole .
    Achem, you are so colorful! You brighten my readings with your just the right spice at the right time.
    Charles and Reb I hope yous let it rip cause I'm listening

    Good night for now!
    Connie

  153. Connie

    Ps and just what stance do I take of this duality ?

    Answer: Neither ( Nor) I am choosing to be Led by the Spirit, Intuition whatever one wishes to name it. As I try my best to connect and unconnect the knowledge that I learn from my studies.

    Just thought you might be curious.

  154. Achems Razor

    @ Connie:

    Ah! you have just started no doubt, on our salutations on the grand mysteries of the cosmos. On this thread we were talking basically about theism and atheism,

    But no matter what the discussions are about, the "religee's" always intersperse there beliefs, on everything, could even be discussions on "outhouses" there gods and devils are everywhere it seems.

    If you further peruse discussions on more docs. from TDF. the best site in the world for documentaries, you will not be disappointed, can assure you.

    And want to thank you for your kind words.

    Chow.

  155. Connie

    Achems,

    Thank you for such a warm greeting.See the spice that you are I guess you could officially be called the Greeter on this forum :-)

    Its so late and I am tired ,too tired for conversing now but if you are not tired please do open the dialogue.
    Perhaps tell me your stance and level you are at.You are correct that I am fairly new.
    My voyage started when I went on a serious voyage to find my God and handed the Helm over to his watch.I faithfully attended Church then when I found they did not match up to the teachings and they had it set up so one can't. I quickly could see flags that they are all just institutions and because I was taught on a street level and schooled, marketing.I could see the phsycological sales pitch and the slave mentality that they are teaching. And what I see being taught is the impossibility to reach the Christian level that they deem desirable. You cannot win. Its set up like the casino. Only certain ones can win a percentage
    .All the others are placed in position to lose and fund the Rich Casino.

    I then left and went on my Journey and have traveled and visited many lands since then. to name a few.
    Mind Matrix, essenes,Eygpt,Blatsavy, Saint Germain, Rosicrusions,Atlanteans, I believe alll the Esoteric ones,'The Sons of One, Greek and Eygtian Mythology, Zacharia Sitchens, Edgar Casey. The Urantia book etc......

    What I am hoping to do here is get a deeper and better understanding of the places i have travelled and come out with a stronger sense of my own. I am great at connecting But I see from what I read above that some of yous have a better understanding and approaches from another angle are always a better fit.
    I opologize I cannot keep my eyes open. I leave the floor to you or someone else.

    Thanks again for the warm greeting I will check back here when I awake.

    Connie

  156. Achems Razor

    @ Connie:

    Have been there, done that. Did not really believe in religion at all ever, But was doing some major work on an antique Anglican church at one time, meet the Reverend, seemed like a nice guy, he invited me to his Mass, figured what the hay, what could it hurt, I went, before I knew it was baptized an Anglican, still not really believing in religion.

    When he was talking religion to me, I was telling him about other stuff, eastern ways of thinking, esoteric things, read all of Edgar Casey's books, read all Jane Roberts Seth books, etc: at that time was basically studying some of the things that you have mentioned, was even tempted to join the Rosicrucians at one time, but they were not telling me anything new, so I opted out.

    Anyway, The Rev. got moved, I quit going. As simple as that.

    My view point has changed 360 degrees, delved into science and all it stands for, and that is where am at now. The only thing that still might be viable is the eastern views about reality, that scientists are studying RE: quantum mechanics, many worlds theory and so forth that seem to hold some water with some of the eastern way of thinking.
    You could join us on another doc. if you like, we are doing a discussion on "Through The Worm Hole-Is Time Travel Possible" here on TDF.

    Chow.

  157. greek

    Propaganda... ah those pour jewish and christians and what ever religious invention to keep people under control and occupied arguing and killing each other
    we never learn and we consider our selves to be evolved! how sad... how stupid...

  158. Jim

    Charles B. are you out of your mind.... the video about Sinai shows pictures with a cloud shadow over the top of the mountain, and call it "blackened by god's visit several thousand years ago". Six pictures taken with some kind of cloud shadow over the top of the mountain is no more convincing than one, especially when the 'blackened' area keeps changing shape.

    This is religious material, not scientific material. Period.

  159. Dualhammers

    I detect some epic trolls in this thread.

  160. jack1952

    Dear Reb,

    It's true that Christians and Muslims like to threaten sinners with hell ( hardly a loving thing to wish) and seem quite smug in their belief that they will be exempt from such punishment. However, Jesus said that no one is worthy of the kingdom of heaven. If that is true then no one can know who goes to hell (if is exists) or who doesn't. Each individual should try to live as good a life as possible and let the chips fall where they may.
    As cruel as these religious icons and figures appear to be, I don't think you should be throwing stones. I have seldom witnessed such hateful language as I have read in your posts. I pale at the thought of a person who could be so angry and vitriolic becoming the leader of a country. Hitler used such language also and look at the misery that hatred caused. Believe what you will but if you want to change the world don't become what you want to change.
    I did like your references to busy bodies.

  161. Zubrils Slirbuz

    When people say to me that this is a religious matter based on books that frankly hold no real historical evidence about most of the important events it takes some really big gut feeling to jump to a conclusion that you know which one is the one true God.

    On unrelated point given recent events in Israel during past decade as well as Christian history - you folks don't really take seriously when God says Thou shall not take an innocent life. Religious people tend to be very picky about their most sacred books whenever it suits them and whatever they are comfortable with. Seems like good people do good things and bad people do bad things regardless of their faith - In that case what commandments are really good for? As someone who doesn't hold any monotheistic belief I hardly doubt that you will see me killing over some mosque or a wall over and over and over and over again.

    I rather prefer to put trust in my humanity using writers like David Hume - he's pretty specific and leaves very little room for interpretation. We just have to figure out how to accept our differences cultural or ethnic and work out how to live together and make this World a better place. As someone who studies both history and what religious people do even now I would call it rather something that gets in the way of doing that not the other way around.

  162. Stone Stedman

    wow lot of philosophers around here ... let just say to all of you who think man is a better bet than God ... "try not to forget who invented the "H" bomb" that should hopefully slow you down a little if you are thinking about trusting mankind for anything.

  163. JohnDeFresno

    It is interesting to note that so many of today's philosophers dismiss the Bible as having no historical precedence. Yet our scientific community, many or maybe most of whom are atheists in varying degrees, accept the authenticity of the Dead Sea Scrolls as being authentic records, written at specific time periods as proven by our best "scientific" aging tests.

    And then there are the extensive works written by accepted historian Flavius Josephus, himself a Pharisee, who nevertheless mentions (briefly, of course) that there was a man known as Jesus Christ who was a teacher and who performed miracles.

    It amazes me how humanity goes out of its way to deny the Truth that is right in front of one's eyes, and which is given even more creditability as new discoveries and proof methods evolve with our culture.

  164. Achems_Razor

    I really do not want to get in a protracted discussion, but your "Flavius Josephus" in his mentioning "briefly as you say, anything about a person such as your Jesus, was a down right proven fabrication, a lie.

  165. Henry Kilgore

    So is this actually a decent documentary, or what?

  166. JohnDeFresno

    Unknown, Henry.

    I was merely responding to what I thought was a generalization about what historians are forced to accept by the various scientific methods used to validate ancient manuscripts.

    I generally taken any video presentation with a grain of salt. The History Channel, for instance, has covered several Biblical events in what is purported to be an unbiased intellectual investigation, then they insert words to discount it all. Example: A documentary on whales attacking ships (about the Essex) in which they pointed out in their introduction that there was an account of Jonah being swallowed by a whale. In the next sentence, they talked about "this and other myths..." thereby discounting the written record. You have to look into things carefully and judge for yourself; beware of putting too much importance to any presentation as being wholly true.

  167. ASAP902

    you're an anti semite

  168. Anthony

    Supposedly, an Israelite empire flourished in the 10th century BC, during a time of temporary weakness of both Assyria and Egypt. Yet the fabled empire of David and Solomon remains just that: a fable, unsupported by any evidence – and empires normally leave a great deal of evidence. Archaeology is unequivocal: there was never the wealth, population, political cohesiveness, or literacy in the tiny settlement around Jerusalem to have ever dominated its more developed northern neighbours.

  169. Anthony

    Oh how Original! but predictable and...
    You're an ignoramus, bet you didn't see that coming, did you?

  170. Summerd75

    wow what a load of **** i love watchin these kinda documentries just for a laugh. 2012 and people still think theres a god. The reason theres no evidence for anything religious is because its a fable a book to keep you in line its bull****. You religious people are ****** crazy

  171. Fouad Reh

    who created the univers? who created you this perfectly ?

  172. Michael Ohayon

    So don't waste your time just for a laugh !lol. I don't understand Atheists invading blogs and comments just to challenge people that do believe there's a G'od. Listen, we have no physical proof there is one. But let me tell you something ... G'od is making us a favor ... by testing our faith. If he revealed himself for every generation.. what would be the point ?? we wouldn't have any merit to go to heaven lol. By the way, Faith is the first commandment. : I am the "L**d your G'od" ...saying .. you need to know that I am what I am .. this is pure faith.

  173. Rauno Remmel

    Really? How do you explain this rock, with a statement beth le'david - house of David. <- Such things weren't written by every person these days... only Kings made such things. Also theres a rock made by one of the kings of Moab that is confirmed by Old testament that such a King actually lived... In the end, you seem to be really ignorant when it comes to archeology and live in a dream where you pick and choose whats true. Shalom.

  174. John Albarn

    Ten things the jews created eleven are scam.

    Every work of the jews are for the jews.

    They created these stupid religions and proclaim themselves as the god's CHOSEN PEOPLE.

    Im not stupid that is why Im not buying these stupid jewish crap.

  175. John Albarn

    This makes me laugh.

    The ever-knowing god of abraham testing him. haha
    That stupid god of abraham should have instead used some kind of mind reading magic.

  176. VideoEyes

    Good Docu. Produced well, good camera work, very informative on how people lived back then and how religion and the concept of god got started. As far as god, I don't< but that's not what the Docu. was about.thx 4 the post...^V^!

  177. Devon Griffiths

    The Tel Dan Stele is not it Moabite (it's Aramean, from the Aram-Damascus kingdom). The phrase in question is not beth le'david. It is simply "bytdwd". This has been translated by some as "house of David" but this is far from certain, and in fact appears to be a single word, which it shouldn't be, if it means "house of David".

  178. a_no_n

    But on the other hand, if there is a god, then what's the point?
    If you can just apologise for everything at the end and be forgiven, what obligation does any person of faith have to be good? Perhaps this is why churches are embroiled in scandals all across the world!
    Also, if everything is planned out to Gods will, then again what's the point? because he's already decided who is and isn't doing whatever.

    If there is a god, what is the point of making an entire universe, just to worship yourself...Does that not seem like something a really awful personality would do?
    Just about everything God does in the bible is either Horrificly cruel, Vain, completly avoidable, or pointless, all in the name of self worship...If a human acted that way, we'd call him Charlie Sheen and treat him with scorn

  179. Geraldo Silva Junior

    Fantastic !!!
    That's shows the sources of a people from a seed.

  180. earthbound

    Religion is man made. God is the truth no matter what we say. Our minds will lead us astray, and our minds can lead us to the truth.

  181. Aerovinh

    Everything in the universe contains energy, and energy always goes from one form, to another forms.
    It is this energy that wants to live, not our self, our body or our minds. Because everything in our body needs energy to function, we needs energy to heal ourself, to think,to grow, it is this energy that builds our body parts. Without the energy we would never existed.

    We gets energy from food, in order to grow food, you will need soils, once you are done with the soils and want to grow more food, you will have to mix the soils with nutritions, and you gets nutritions from animal wastes, in order to get animal wastes, the animal must eat grass or animals food.
    This is a energy transforming process, it is the same energy that takes many forms before it can be something eatable for us human. This energy will never gets lost, it just converts into many forms, including human form.

  182. watchtheduck

    I wonder how many people know that Abraham Lincoln was most likely Jewish.

  183. watchtheduck

    This "God" of Abraham sure does love bar-b-que... he also loves gold. Why is that?

  184. NomoreNO

    "Messiah" means the same as "Christ"

    ????

    "Messiah" is Hebrew for "Anointed One"

    "Christ" is Greek for "Anointed One"

    Read the early Church Fathers - those that were taught by the Apostles

    1) St Justin Martyr

    2) St Ignatius of Antioch

    3) St Polycarp

    Then research the "Miracle of the Sun" at Fatima 1917

    The Prophecies of Mother Mariana de Jesus Torres for the 20th Century

    The Apparitions of La Salette

    The Message of Akita 1973

    The Prophecy of Leo XIII

    The Prophecies of Marie Julie Jahenny

    The Prophecies of St Anna Maria Taigi

    The Prophecies of St Anne Catherine Emmerich

    The Apparitions of Garabandal

    The Prophecies of Fatima

    Then watch on youtube "Dr Ricardo Castanon Phd - Faith and Science"

    and the Film "The 13th day " about Fatima

    and the Film "Padre Pio " between Heaven and Earth

    Then you'll KNOW that Jesus Christ is TRULY GOD!

    PS The Blood Type of the Turin Shroud matches that of the Sudarium (Face Cloth) that has been kept in Valencia Cathedral along with the Holy Grail (the Chalice used at the last Supper) for nearly 2000 years.

    The Blood of the Shroud ALSO matches that found in every single known Eucharistic Miracle that has been scientifically Analysed as a blind specimen (ie the Scientists examining them were not aware that the flesh they were examining was originally a Consecrated Host)

  185. NomoreNO

    How on earth you will ever dare to face God when you leave this earth making such disgusting slanderous comments about people that you have not even met.
    Who are YOU to say what is and what is not truth? Were you educated in Theology?
    What a silly statement to say the Bible is not true. Watch David Rohl's Pharoahs and Kings. If there have been any "lies" and withholding of information, I think you will find that it is the other way around to what you are claiming. There is an anti-Christian agenda to which you, like a lamb to the slaughter are falling for and following blindly, because you have not bothered researching, and you believe, basically, what you WISH to believe.
    I am a Roman Catholic. The evidence supporting my Faith is overwhelming. The Truth is there for ANYONE who seeks for it.
    Why does the blood type of the Turin Shroud match that of every scientifically examined Eucharistic Miracle? Why do the papers not tell us that such tests have been done by Top Scientists? Why have the TV Documentaries on the Shroud never told us that the blood type of the Shroud ALSO matches exactly that of the Sudarium of VALENCIA cathedral in Spain.
    Watch "Dr Ricardo Castanon Phd - Faith and Science" on YOUTUBE.
    Read the Prophecies of Our Lady of Good Success, given 500 years ago FOR the time we are living in now. Read the Messages of Garabandal, Akita, and La Salette. Read also the prophecies of Marie Julie Jahenny (Stigmatic and Scientifically examined Eucharistic Faster) and St Anne Catherine Emmerich a Stigmatic
    Explain why Ugo Festa, who suffered from MS, Multiple Schlerosis and Epilepsy, confined to a wheelchair, was miraculously healed whilst looking at a picture depicting Christ as the Divine Mercy, after hearing Him say "Rise and Walk?"
    Don't bore me with your "no proof" read the evidence of the NONE- Christians, contemporary with Christ. Tacitus, Josephus, Pliny. They all mention Christ and His Crucifixion and that He was said by His Disciples to have risen again.
    Read the writings of those taught by the Disciples themselves online. Justin Martyr, Polycarp, Ignatius of Antioch, Clement, and read also St Ireneaus who wrote a thesis in the 2nd century called "Against Heresies." This categorically lists ALL texts KNOWN and proven by direct association with the Apostles to be authentic and suitable to be read in Catholic Churches. THOSE texts were the ones later used in the Canon that became the Bible.
    READ, LEARN, FIND FREEDOM IN KNOWING TRUTH.

  186. Achems_Razor

    All you say and read, and follow are nothing more than man made, to which you "follow blindly" you have chosen one, amongst a myriad of different religions, and millions of invisible man made gods since recorded history, it is "what you wish to believe"
    How about you "READ, LEARN, FIND FREEDOM IN KNOWING TRUTH." via science, where you can actually test, same as you are testing now by writing on your made by science PC.

  187. NomoreNO

    No,

    I KNOW! It's you who don't. I've no time for people who don't believe in facts. Don't speak "Science " to me. Science ignores things it can not explain.

    All other faiths are just corruptions of Judaic Christianity.

    If you examine just ONE of the links I mentioned above - instead of just answering - you would not have replied in this way.

    Go away and study. If you want to know "Who" God is - and don't believe in the ONLY PERSON who ever SAID He was God - then pray to God, Allah, whatever you want to call Him to show Himself to you. Examine Youtube, the only "God" who EVER shows up is Jesus Christ - when that question is asked.

  188. Achems_Razor

    What the **** does youtube know about your gods? still all man made religious claptrap.

    Show PROOF that your gods or the big JC even existed! You made the claim, the onus is on you!

  189. sj

    I know huh...so now that you have admitted to knowing the founder of Isreal and Judism (o, by the way, is also the origin of Jewish,Islam, and Christianity religions!) ... was a black man with whom Christ lineage is from...how does it feel to be praying to a Black Jesus?

  190. headoutofthesand

    "is god willing to prevent evil, but not able?
    then he is not omnipotent.
    is he able, but not willing?
    then he is malevolent.
    is he both able and willing?
    then whence cometh evil?
    is he neither able nor willing?
    then why call him god?
    -epicurus

  191. Kenneth Kelly

    If you pay attention to the video it tells you that little of what is portrayed was not real and only myth passed down and embellished by the people that wrote these stories. As history there is not even one fact of history. Historical events were incorporated in the myths long after the event. The exudes was story and it was never fact. The Bible is a book of wishful dreams. GOD was created by men and only in myth. Religion is the result of the fears of people. The fear of death being a great tool and weapon.
    People that can think with logic and reason know religions are creations of man to exploit the people and take great wealth from them.

  192. Emunah

    I feel sorry for all of you atheists on the day you die. I feel sorry for you as you go through life because you have nothing to turn to except yourself. May you know the truth because you are very far from it now.

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