The World's Worst Place to Be Gay?

The World's Worst Place to Be Gay?How do you get more people to watch your documentary? Give it a teasing title, clearly intended to grab floating viewers by piquing their interest. Gosh, where could it be, the world's worst place to be gay? Afghanistan? China? North Korea? Tunbridge Wells?

It turns out to be Uganda, at least according to the Radio 1 DJ Scott Mills, who is himself gay. He went to Kampala and indeed found plenty of depressing evidence of institutionalized homophobia, and this was before the murder last month of the Ugandan gay-rights activist David Kato.

Africa generally is becoming a dangerous place to be openly gay – no fewer than 37 African countries have declared homosexuality illegal – but Uganda is evidently the most dangerous, with a prominent politician called David Bahati championing legislation – bluntly called the Anti-Homosexuality Act – which would introduce life imprisonment for people found guilty of same-gender sex, and the death penalty for serial offenders.

If only this represented the ranting of a right-wing zealot, out of step with public opinion. In fact, Mills found perfectly bright schoolchildren who are likewise of the view that homosexuality is an abomination, and met a newspaper editor who insisted that it reduces the human lifespan by 24 years. A young lesbian told him that she had been raped in an attempt to cure her of her orientation, yet far from curing her, the rape left her pregnant and HIV-infected.

All this is a relatively recent phenomenon, apparently visited upon Africa by the growing influence there of American evangelists. And where angry shouting doesn't work, glib humour is deployed. In the beginning it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, offered a panellist on a phone-in radio show.

This documentary is available for preview only. Find out more at BBC Three.

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Ratings: 7.47/10 from 15 users.
  • Doug Everett

    It will always be illegal to be gay, and the price you pay, will be apparent on judgement day

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Clifford-William-Thomas/653060607 Clifford William Thomas

    And when that day never comes? Then what?

  • bre schoff

    Just wait until your judgement day, DOUG. Quit outwardly projecting your insecurities onto others. Homophobes, are 90% of the time gay themselves.

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    ROFL @ god botherer. As Freud and the other dude said - being homophobic is a dead giveaway you are desperately repressing something - sexy, wink wink ;)

    BTW nice facebook profile. Just checkin everything about you meets MY JUDGEMENT

    My god you were ugly as a kid. Hows New Jersey?

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    Didnt you hear? Its december 21, 2012. Or Saturday next week possibly.

    Plenty of time to have tons of dirty gay sex and drugs, and then repent!! WOOT BENDER COMING

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001902628770 Stephen Hart

    You wouldn’t be saying that if you were gay, you pig.
    Stick your Judgement Day up your a**, (no pun intended, lol)

  • leonardobdas

    Imagine the following fact: about50% of all Americans believe in the bible literally. It means that they see being gays as ticket straight to hell. Every so called 'true' born again christian is a homophobe. Now.... almost 100% of the islamic world thinks the the same thing about gay people.... then there is the macho boys.....that is a whole lotta hate isn't it!

  • Cool E Beans

    The real questions then are "Why do you have to do anything about it? Isn't it GODs' domain to deal with them and not yours?"

    If you are so offended, protect yourself defensively but not offensively as this is GODs' job and not yours.

  • http://www.topdocumentaryfilms.com Epicurus

    that is disgusting. apparently in your bible it is also an abomination to plant two seeds in the same ground and to wear two different coloured threads...dont forget that doing ANYTHING on the sabbath is against the 4th commandment.

    what about all these?

    If it is discovered that a bride is not a virgin, the Bible demands that she be executed by stoning immediately. Deuteronomy 22:13-21
    If a married person has sex with someone else’s husband or wife, the Bible commands that both adulterers be stoned to death. Deuteronomy 22:22

    Divorce is strictly forbidden in both Testaments, as is remarriage of anyone who has been divorced. Mark 10:1-12

    The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman’s period. If they disobey, both shall be executed.Leviticus 18:19

    If a man dies childless, his widow is ordered by biblical law to have intercourse with each of his brothers in turn until she bears her deceased husband a male heir. Mark 12:18-27

    If a man gets into a fight with another man and his wife seeks to rescue her husband by grabbing the enemy’s genitals, her hand shall be cut off and no pity shall be shown her. Deuteronomy 25:11-12

    Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. Exodus 21:15

    If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. Proverbs 20:20

    All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. Leviticus 20:9

    SO Doug....why dont you obey any of these rules? i guess you will suffer the same fate as those you condemn come so called judgement day.

    PS...your comment rhymed...did you know that?!

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_I2LQODL7U4QRPJAZM4WU7YEWOU LDD

    When it is your time and you are facing God, He will not ask you whether have you lived as a straight person or a gay person, but he will ask you is you have you lived as a humane human. God looks inside someone's heart. Obviously homophobia in Uganda is brought by their messed up belief and lack of education and anti-gay propaganda that is being fed by the so called pastors.

  • BeeJenna

    Great documentary. It shows how harmful intolerance to other people’s way of living their life can be. What society's believe to be the right way to live is for ever changing. It demonstrates the importance of standing up and speaking out for your rights - even when you are living in a democracy.

  • misterwong

    Jeezus,Doug!Look at all the reactions to your little Westboro Baptist haiku!Thank the Lord(the REAL ONE)that it's not illegal to be a self-righteous,God-Squad Yahoo or you'd be scrambling after the soap across the prison shower floor by now.Why do you Holy guys hate so?Does the Bible teach You to destroy them?Sure it does.Stoning to death,Right?(Lev 20;13)Oh well,Doug,Im sure you've got other things to pass judgement upon,and other folks wanna leave you their thoughts too,so take 'er easy.At least now you know that TDF is the Worlds Worst Place to be a Sanctimonious Ignorant Wiener

  • Battle_Star

    Jesus said "let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.."
    I am a Christian and the most important thing that I have learnt is to stop judging others. Epicurus is right...look at all those laws. No one can live up to them. Jesus taught a new way, the way of compassion and forgiveness. Only He has the right to judge others. So stop telling others how to live and start accepting others for who they are....just like Jesus did!

  • misterwong

    Freud and the other Dude?Meaning Carl Jung?ha ha!Shame on you,Garth!(Don't let Doug find out that they were Jewish,or we'll have another dumb poem on our hands!) :)Schoff posted that 90% of Homophobes are gay!!!That can't be accurate,can it?....Nah....maybe 85%..

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YMEIYFWGIZSQS434OSWAGMIEPY Jake

    Wow when this will end... when this will end for your god' sake. What price... what judgment day and what if you start taking action for yourself and stop bringing an unproven BEING to decide to about our fate. Is that the work of god's that you are being so intolerant and belligerent for your fellow human beings. This is beyond me... I don't wanna live on this planet anymore if people like you goes around spreading messages and fear among others who just like you has the right to live.

    Why do you go about an old book... with old ideas that haven't been updated except for the benefits of the ones whom had it updated. I for say appreciate LDO comment whom has upgraded her god's beliefs (I could go for a god like that) but the one you bring is the old Yahweh from Genesis... the bloodthirsty god, the jealous, the vengeful.

    What did the gay people did to you that you hate them so much... pedophile are for the most not gay my friend... and if you refer to gays liking young people well I remember a time were couple could be well over 25 years of age difference and not be gay. Did you have a crush on a guy and he turned you down?

    What I saw in this video is what I saw in few other countries where gays were persecuted for being themselves (they haven't kill or violate anyone) but yet are treated as criminal just because they happens to love someone of the same sex.

    If that's the god you implies... well therefore this prove that god made Mistake and he should have killed the first human that he found to be gay, because after all god is OMNIPOTENT, OMNISCIENT and all KNOWING so he knew... therefore why you mere mortals are refusing to include gays in your societies if your GOD let them live?

    If you follow all the lecturing from god or that old dusty irrelevant book called Bible, Koran and any other ungodly dusty books should you have tolerance for all creatures of god?

    Really Doug? Remember all those wonderful preachers that preached so hard against homosexuality and prostitution, raid the streets with banners, advocate the people and governments to take actions against homosexuality for the sake of morality... just to finally find out that one has been caught with teenager boys in its bed, the other had several call girls etc etc... are those are the people whom you follow... because according to them they speak the truth... they are the voice of GOD... really to you Doug wake up your life is passing before your eyes and it will be to late when you'll be old and crippled to enjoy it. Same goes for all the little Doug in power :)

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YMEIYFWGIZSQS434OSWAGMIEPY Jake

    See I am not religious in anyways but i like this level of tolerance... we need more Christian like that

  • Jack1952

    I'm really happy for you. You apparently have nothing to answer for. "Let he who is without sin throw the first stone." Some of us are lucky enough to be able to throw stones, aren't you.

  • Jack1952

    Maybe he really doesn't believe what he would say. It just rolled off the tongue in a delightful way. Maybe he is really gay.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ LDD

    Obviously, homophobia in Uganda is brought about by Ugandans' clear understanding of, and belief in, something(or someone) loosely referred to as that spelled 'g o d'(at least in the English language).

    Ugandans' general lack of education serves to enhance this understanding to the level of 'crystal clear' and, of course, Ugandans' ignorance then serves to ease conversion to belief in this 'g o d' thing.

    Ugandans' deep understanding of, and belief in, this 'thing' is then seized upon by the truest-of-the-true, gold-standard, pastors with the mission of spreading anti-gay propaganda, in keeping with their long tradition of spreading hate, violence, death and destruction, a history inclusive of murdering the Aztecs and other peoples indigenous to the New World, in addition to similar abominations amongst those of their own, abominations of persecution by crushing to death with stone, LIVE burial, burning ALIVE, drowning, mutilation(inclusive of the severing of males' genitalia?I just vomited and, therefore, have decided to stop with further examples from these pastors' extremely LONG history of such atrocities).

    Education tends to diminish belief in this 'g o d' thing, as education enhances understanding of reality, thus dispelling notions of, and belief in, the supernatural and all attending superstitions.

    At an appropriate level of education, the destructive force of this imaginary 'whatever' tends to evaporate entirely.

    The author of the comment to which I am now responding is an apologist for the concept of the supernatural upon which all superstition rests. LDD, therefore, indirectly supports homophobia and the spreading of homophobia, in addition to the spreading of death, torture, destruction, in general.

    With a sounder education, LDD might very well, one day, rise to a level incompatible with her/his present stance, thereby allowing her/him to join the swelling ranks of civilized persons who ardently oppose the notion of the supernatural, and of its teaching.

    Hope springs eternal!

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Jake

    Thanks, Jake, for your support.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Jake

    Thanks, again!

  • mind_trapped

    They kept mentioning that the Bible says being gay is wrong. Yes it does, however it also says to love our enemy, not to hate, that we have no right to judge anyone (that's what Judgement Day is for) blah blah blah. Why don't they also "smoke out" adulterers, prostitutes, pedophiles, liars?
    They blamed the "western culture"... the internet they use (to watch porn) was invented in the "west." Why would anyone even CHOOSE to be gay especially in Uganda? No one suddenly decides to be treated worst than a criminal. What a shame!

  • Guest

    wow! did that come in one spur of the moment? You sound like a warrior,the kind Paolo Coehlo often describe in his phylosophy.
    Have to say: Hope Spring is Eternal too...it just started and all of a sudden every one is smiling!
    az

  • Guest

    I would say you do lose your temper, a real warrior is always ahead of the game with discernement, wit, savoir-faire and finesse. F*** You is equivalent to throwing one of your bowling ball in the ditch.
    We all have a rectum, so i would say you are a rectum too and so am i.
    to a future zoro
    az

  • Guest

    I don't think this is accepted in TDF's game of Scrabble.
    az
    edit: "Thanks, again!" when put at the right place, at the right moment scores high in life and in Scrabble!

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Azilda

    Azilda, it isn't accepted in TDF's game of Scrabble.
    That's why it's there!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Marion-Bruns/100000537581641 Marion Bruns

    Very nice writing job, and the content is great too ;o)

  • rtiom

    Its pretty sad that it has to be a black nation that realizes how wrong homosexuality is. It seems that the black will multiply and slowly immigrate in large numbers to the west where all everyone seems to be so gay and happy that the population is in decline. Then there will be more black people here and colored than white hahahaha

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ rtiom

    "Gay people are messed up."
    a) You are worong.
    b) You are pig.
    c) As far as "messed up" goes, you set the standard.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ rtiom

    "hahahaha"

    Are you hebephrenic, rtiom?

    If so, I have been given to understand that Abilify(generic identifier: 'aripiprazole') has proven efficacy in many cases, such as yours.

    And, rtiom, if you really are mentally ill, then I take back what I said about your being a pig.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Jake

    I am sorry, Jake, for my other two comments, directed at you. The 'sarcastic' undertone of your other posting escaped me. I did not understand. I have changed what I said(hopefully, you never saw it! (lol); but I cannot delete anything, as I have yet to learn how.

    Again, please accept my apologies.

    Sorry.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ivan-Topic/505754165 Ivan Topic

    Your logic here is flawless, I must submit. It is interesting that the vast majority of religious people use scripture to justify their bigotry but we live in different times now. You can't apply an outdated book to today's society. Take this example, Jesus preached that we should turn the other cheek. This would present a problem for those who sacrificed their lives to stop Hitlers killing machine. After all, according to Jesus, they should have just waited their turn to be slaughtered. Using mindless scripture to form an opinion while ignoring other more damning scripture only demonstrates your own personal desire to implement a certain world view upon society.

    I don't mean to bash the religious. Sometimes your actions speak so loud I can barely hear what you're saying.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Jack1952

    "Maybe he really doesn't believe what he would say. It just rolled
    off the tongue in a delightful way. Maybe he is really gay."

    Jack1952, you are a very confused person:

    Doug could not possibly be gay. There is nothing good about him.

    "It just rolled off the tongue in a 'delightful' way."

    Jack, what is wrong with you??Are you drunk?

    And Jack, you do know that Doug meant exactly what he said.
    (You only wish you had beaten him to the punch!)

    Seek help, Jack, for all our sakes(even Doug's).

    I'm worried about you.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Jack1952

    Well, Jack, judging from your first posting, you are, apparently, ready and able, and lucky enough, to be able to throw stones, aren't you? So, Jack, how much stone-ammo have you stockpiled?

  • william goh

    Remember TED HAGGARD? .. the big-time televangelist who is anti-gay to the core (i.e. when preaching in front of his thousands of flocks of deluded sheep), but most nights went around paying & f^cking young gays.. until he was caught with his pants down! He is not the only hypocrite, anti-gay sex maniac.. thousands of church priests who molest/f^ck young kids were caught over the years.. what about those not caught!
    Common, all you god-deluded people.. try to accept gays for what Nature has given them - gay genes! Absolutely nothing to do with your supernatural god and the "morals" prescribed in an ancient text written by uneducated, wandering nomads thousands of years ago! It's all about Evolution NOT the stupid creation.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Ivan Topic

    Thank you, Ivan, for having put it ever so much more diplomatically than I could ever hope to do.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ william goh

    You're right!

    And then, when the crap hit the fan at the Vatican, that NAZI pope squatter did all he could to maintain a cover-up(he's still continuing to do all he can to distract); and don't think for one second we've heard the half of it, either!

    Did you know that the pope went to sub-Saharan Africa and told the poor there that condoms helped to spread AIDS?!

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ mind_trapped

    The Bible is wrong about 'gay' being wrong. God is wrong.
    The Bible is wrong in urging you to love Hitler and Cheney.

    God is wrong!

    The Bible is wrong, your god is wrong, in urging you NOT to hate Hitler and Stalin and Mussolini and Franco and Mao and Pol Pot and Idi Amin and Cheney and that rectum running that internment camp that is North Korea. Wasn't it you Christians who built and dropped, not one, but TWO atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. You guys must have been head-over-heels with the Japanese(the United States citizens of whom 'Christian AmeriKKKa' interred in concentration camps!).

    I suppose you love Gaddafi, while at the same time trying to kill him.

    Oh, and pinch yourselves lest you forget how President Obama recently loved Bin Laden to death. And didn't you Christian guys shed crocodile tears when Saddam Hussein was hanged. 'Loving' all these pigs while at the same time doing everything you can to kill them, as opposed to hating the very same pigs while doing everything you can to kill them, seems to me a distinction without a difference.

    Indeed, it IS a distinction without a difference!

    And your 'God, the Father', is the biggest hater and 'smiter' of'em all. And that 'lover' of yours, your precious JeeeZus, is(as you read this) at ONE with your 'God, the Father', your MONSTER!

    I am NOT a Christian(you ARE);
    I do NOT turn the other cheek(and neither do you!);
    I do NOT love my enemies(and neither do you!), and, what is more,
    I know who my enemies are(and so do you!).

    I judge! And I do a darn good job of it, too! And your having "no right to judge anyone" sure don't slow y'all down, none!

    The on-the-ground reality is that the only difference between us is that YOUR screwing gets blessed.

    Your god is a monster. Your Jeeezus is at ONE with your monster.
    (What does your holy spook do??I've always wanted to know.)
    So stop with the sanctimonious claptrap. "Judgment Day"?Just who do think you're kidding? You don't believe that garbage any more than I do! Oh, yeah, and thanks a 'load' for throwing me in with all you adulterers, prostitutes, pedophiles, cheaters and liars. Yeah, thanks a 'load'!

    Keep your 'love'. I don't need it.
    Keep you 'love. I don't want it.
    And, please, please, stop 'tolerating' me!
    I do not like being 'tolerated' anymore than you do.

    In short, BACK OFF!!

    If you really, honestly, and truly, do want to help us, then splash pink paint at every alter you can find, and don't stop, until gays can bring their foreign partners home to this country, the USA, as American citizens, just like you can.

    If you really, honestly, and truly, do want to help us, then splash pink paint at every alter you can find, and don't stop, until we get the same tax breaks that you guys take for granted, WITHOUT our having to dole out oodles of money to some crooked lawyer in order to get things set 'straight'!

    But you don't really, honestly, and truly, want to help us, do you?
    You'd rather content yourselves with merely 'tolerating' us, wouldn't you?

    Well thanks, but no thanks.

  • Guest

    @Ozy, you are rarely diplomat even when right.
    Keep hoping or keep trying.
    az

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Azilda

    "Keep hoping or keep trying."

    I have not the least intention of being "diplomatic" about crimes against humanity.

    The very suggestion that ANYBODY should be "diplomatic" about such matters is horrific!

  • Guest

    Doug quantitative change becomes a qualitative change.
    Being gay is a right in one's home, not something that belongs in court.
    As for your judgement day, judge your self every day in the mirror, in the morning for the changes you wish to make and at night for the possitive changes you skipped.
    az

  • Guest

    Do you really think if you bash someone who has a narrow view on a subject you will win anything? The world around that person makes him/her blind to an other point of view. Your best strategy might be to show that person your view with wit and clarity and without resorting to a war of words.
    Wars are started by people with different views and the need of power over other's perception of right and wrong.

    I have seen in West African villages a meeting place called a toguna. A Toguna is a building with a really low ceiling. That's where elders meet to discuss village issues.

    "The special feature of the Toguna is its low ceiling, which is only one metre tall. The effect is easy to understand: whenever one of the meeting participants stands up to argue, he hits his head on the ceiling and is forced to sit back down. This allows for the quick regulation of emotions – and participants are forced back into an appropriate discourse"

    No toguna here, one has to create his own!
    az

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Sebastian-Proudfoot/599352324 Sebastian Proudfoot

    thats not what your dad said last night

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Azilda

    1. I Do not bash. I present unvarnished FACTS.

    2. When they're finished with me, their view will be anything but narrow!

    3. I am not interested in winning.

    4. How do you know the first thing about the world surrounding strangers, blind, or otherwise?

    5. I am not playing games and am, therefore, in no need of any "strategy," whatsoever.

    6. Azilda, with all due respect, before you suggest 'strategies' of wit, I urge you to watch just one actual execution of the 4,000 that have taken place in Iran since 1979. You can do this by Googling:

    "Real execution :(( Stop The Gay Crime , Iran!! :(("

    I do not believe anything could be more clear than what you will witness if you take my suggestion to heart and actually WATCH what you THINK you are talking about.

    (Why don't you first attempt to be 'witty' about women being cut in half, alive, for adultery? -- Then talk to me about "wit!").

    7. There has been no 'war of words', except from you(mild as it admittedly is).

    8. I am quite aware of those wars started against me, and my comrades in arms, by people with different views and the need of power over other's perception of right and wrong. They have been started against me by others and by nation states, such as the Islamic Republic of Iran, many, many times. I will lecture you about them, if you'd like to learn something about that of which you think you are speaking. I have every right to defend myself anyway I can, and kisses will not be one of my weapons. Every human being has the unalienable human right to self-defense, and I intend to exercise that right to the fullest! I believe your advice about starting wars of words, or wars of slicing people in two, is sound advice, so why don't you have little talks with those who start these wars(or maybe you're scared to)? You could start 'small', by invading any local church filled with bigots and preaching to THEM the song you have quite inappropriately just sung to me. Low, or high, I believe ceilings to be of no relevance when discussing 'issues' such as your daughter's hand having been being chopped off. In such circumstances, a gun is much more effective, and cheaper, which I should think might be of some considerable importance to those in West Africa who are on a limited budget.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_WU2BU5GLA7H23C34KVWAEGLSUM Qui

    Homosexuality is not a decision. Think about it.
    It is also not an illness.
    You do not decide being homosexual. You are or you are not homosexual.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Qui

    Thanks, Qui, I appreciate your attempt at educating 'the masses'.
    Maybe it will have some positive effect. I sure hope so.

    Thanks again.

  • tomregit

    Hey Epicurus, your comment is wise, You've cut ol' Doug down to size, Exposing his "goodbook's" many lies.

    @Ozyxcba 1
    What Jack said was tongue in cheek, But in his comment it's wisdom you seek, With no sense of humor your outlook is bleak.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Alex-Aguiar/636183850 Alex Aguiar

    just look at the "reporter" ... take a good first look at that...thing... :D

  • Gary V

    This what happens when the world gets infected with religion. When people start to believe in non-existent Gods & outdated ancient myths then all sane & rational thoughts are lost.

  • Jack1952

    @ Ozyxcbal

    Lots of stones. No targets.

  • Clix (????)

    Most people are in neither camps you speak of, that of the gay-hating-gays (i.e. Haggard) nor openly gays. Most people live in un-gay world, and vehemently oppose any discrimination against gays based on what they have decided to do with their bodies and in the privacy of their homes. Most people also don't understand the practical nor evolutionary benefit of being gay. Most people care as much about the gay lifestyle as a gay person is interested in straight peoples' lifestyle. Most people seek spirituality to better understand the utter mystery of our existence on earth. If you think the best tactic to win your struggle against prejudice and injustice is to insult other people, you have amounted to nothing more than a schoolyard bully who tries to cover his own feelings of inadequacy by minimizing others.

  • Clix (????)

    Interesting application of the teachings of Jesus. Mahatma Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. used the same non-violence approach preached by Jesus and overcame the challenges they were facing. Iraqis of our time have been slaughtered by one of the most brutal and barbaric army the world has seen in recent times while at their homes. Had they continued to be more vigorous in their resistance against the invading force, their casualties would have been much higher. Considering the outcome of WWII, its means and end are barbaric by both sides involved, even in context of modern warfare. It's sad and unfortunate that you use one of the most dehumanizing event in human history to discredit one of the ideal nature of humanity, love and compassion. Orwell couldn't have done it better.

  • http://www.topdocumentaryfilms.com Epicurus

    you are a disgusting human being who shouldnt deserve the right to live in a civilized society.

  • StillRV

    I don't believe that the majority of homosexuals "choose" their lifestyle. I however think that the whole "gay gene" argument is a bit over reaching. There has been no proven gene for homosexuality, or for any preference for that matter. Bottom line is that sexual attraction is a preference. Saying that there is a gene that controls that you may as well say there is a gene that controls liking blonds over brunets, or even liking apples over oranges. That is just silly. I can understand the desire to say there is a "gay gene" because it would provide an indisputable reason to those who find sexual preference to be a big deal. As to the argument made earlier by someone here that homosexuality is the next step in evolution...No just No. Seriously it is fine that someone is gay but that is just insane to say that. Evolution by it's very nature is about the survival of a species. Evolution is about some physiological change that benefits the species in terms of survival, and the elimination of species procreation is the opposite of that. Just saying to all of the homosexuals who take up the cause of acceptance and equality there are much better arguments that are not either baseless of patently false. Don't go off on me now as if I am somehow anti-gay because I absolutely am not. I just think that a more supportable basis for your cause would be a benefit to you all. And yes I did say majority in the beginning because some people do choose to be homosexual. It is not, for them, about attraction but about rebellion or some other motivation. And you all have seen these people just as I have. The girl who dates all men then one day is making out with chicks at bars etc. only to eventually go home with the intellectually deficient dude who thought "that was so hot".

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ivan-Topic/505754165 Ivan Topic

    While I do find the idea of pacifism interesting and applicable in some situations, it should not and cannot be applied in all situations and that is within the heart of Christs teachings. Being submissive would not have halted Hitler. That is a simple fact. It serves as a perfect example that the bible is outdated and cannot be applied in a modern civilized society. If you truly require an old outdated book to tell you what is and isn't moral, then as Einstein said, we are a sorry bunch indeed.

  • Guest

    OMFG I come from long line of stone vendors and I would wish you to stop trying to put my family enterprises out of business do you realize how much it cost to prove someone is gay let alone the cost of quarrying the rocks and the child labor to bust those rocks down to .5 kilos as prescribed by the koran compoundeded with the women slave/wife labor selling the stones at the weekly thursday afternoon vegetable market / fairy,sodimite stoning. Like this could put 1/5 of the worlds population out of legal work. NO WONDER WHY THE IRAINS HATE US.

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    Hi whacko, I am psinet. I have a few points for you, and even some spelling assistance.

    1) "ACCEPT", not "except".

    2) Nature cannot be evil, that is a human concept.

    Homosexuality is a natural phenomenon, and is found throughout the animal kingdom.

    Just because I know you will care, I am not gay. I even suffer from a mild, inherited form of homophobia.

    However, your pointed revulsion towards homosexuality indicates you have a repressed desire for such, and the muscles displayed in your avatar confirm that position.

    For the sake of all of us, just go and have the gay sex you have always denied yourself - it will make us all a lot safer.

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    I just checked your Facebook page and you are one sexy looking gay guy.

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    I have a religious question I am unsure of, and I don't want my dog to go to hell.

    My male dog has a habit of humping other male dogs. Is my dog gay? Should I have him put down now, or wait til God kills him?

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ StillRV

    "I don't believe that the majority of homosexuals 'choose' their lifestyle."

    What has your belief concerning homosexuals' 'lifestyle' to do with the treatment of homosexuals Uganda?

    I would like and answer to this question, please.

    "I however think that the whole 'gay gene' argument is a bit over reaching."

    How does whatever you think about "that the whole 'gay gene' argument" fit in with the treatment of homosexuals in Uganda?

    I would like and answer to this question, please.

    "There has been no proven gene for homosexuality, or for any preference for that matter."

    What has your declaration concerning the genetic role(or lack of same) regarding sexual orientation to do with the treatment of homosexuals in Uganda?

    I would like and answer to this question, please.

    "Bottom line is that sexual attraction is a preference."

    What has your declaration "that sexual attraction is a preference" to do with the treatment of homosexuals in Uganda?

    I would like and answer to this question, please.

    "Saying that there is a gene that controls that you may as well say there is a gene that controls liking blonds over brunets, or even liking apples over oranges."

    What has your declaration "Saying that there is a gene that controls that you may as well say there is a gene that controls liking blonds over brunets, or even liking apples over oranges" to do with the treatment of homosexuals in Uganda?

    I would like and answer to this question, please.

    That is just silly."

    What has your declaration That is just silly" to do with the treatment of homosexuals in Uganda?

    I would like and answer to this question, please.

    "I can understand the desire to say there is a 'gay gene' because it would provide an indisputable reason to those who find sexual preference to be a big deal."

    What has your 'understanding' of "the desire to say there is a 'gay gene'" in terms of whether "it would provide an indisputable reason to those who find sexual preference to be a big deal" to do with the treatment of homosexuals in Uganda?

    I would like and answer to this question, please.

    "As to the argument made earlier by someone here that homosexuality is the next step in evolution...No just No."

    What has your protestation of "No just No" to "the argument made earlier by someone here that homosexuality is the next step in evolution" to do with the treatment of homosexuals in Uganda?

    I would like and answer to this question, please.

    "Seriously it is fine that someone is gay but that is just insane to say that."

    What has your 'serious' condescension that "it is fine that someone is gay" in conjunction with your pronouncement "that is just insane to say...that homosexuality is the next step in evolution" to do with the treatment of homosexuals in Uganda?

    I would like and answer to this question, please.

    "Evolution by it's very nature is about the survival of a species"

    What has your declaration concerning "Evolution and "it's very nature" being "about the survival of a species" to do with the treatment of homosexuals in Uganda?

    I would like and answer to this question, please.

    "Evolution is about some physiological change that benefits the species in terms of survival, and the elimination of species procreation is the opposite of that."

    What has your pedagogical delivery that "Evolution is about some physiological change that benefits the species in terms of survival, and the elimination of species procreation is the opposite of that" to do with the treatment of homosexuals in Uganda?

    I would like and answer to this question, please.

    "Just saying to all of the homosexuals who take up the cause of acceptance and equality there are much better arguments that are not either baseless of patently false."

    What has your "Just saying"to me and "to all of the homosexuals who take up the cause of acceptance and equality there are much better arguments that are not either baseless of patently false" to do with the treatment of homosexuals in Uganda?

    I would like and answer to this question, please.

    "Don't go off on me now as if I am somehow anti-gay because I absolutely am not."

    What has your demand that I "don't go off on [you] now as if [you are] somehow anti-gay," softened by you assurance that "[you] absolutely [are] not" somehow anti-gay, to do with the treatment of homosexuals in Uganda?

    I would like and answer to this question, please.

    "I just think that a more supportable basis for your cause would be a benefit to you all."

    What has your unsolicited advice to me that "[you] just think that a more supportable basis for [my] cause would be a benefit to [me and every other homosexual]" to do with the treatment of homosexuals in Uganda?

    I would like and answer to this question, please.

    "And yes I did say majority in the beginning because some people do choose to be homosexual."

    What has your uniquely profound insight that some "some people do choose to be homosexual" to do with the treatment of homosexuals in Uganda?

    I would like and answer to this question, please.

    "It is not, for them, about attraction but about rebellion or some other motivation."

    What has your declaration of the succinct psychoanalytic diagnosis that "it is not, for them, about attraction but about rebellion or some other motivation" to do with the treatment of homosexuals in Uganda?

    I would like and answer to this question, please.

    "And you all have seen these people just as I have."

    What has your presumption that "you all have seen these people just as I have." to do with the treatment of homosexuals in Uganda?

    I would like and answer to this question, please.

    "The girl who dates all men then one day is making out with chicks at bars etc. only to eventually go home with the intellectually deficient dude who thought 'that was so hot'"

    What has your acquaintanceship with "the girl who dates all men then one day is making out with chicks at bars etc. only to eventually go home with the intellectually deficient dude who thought 'that was so hot'"

    I would like and answer to this question, please.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Psinet

    Before advising, I should like to know just how BIG is your dog?
    Then we can take it from there :-)

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ tomregit

    Actually, tomregit, I do have a pretty good sense of humor, but what with the doc, and all, and some of the stuff I've seen posted...

    Well, you know.

    As far as Jack goes, I would not be too sure about where he keeps his tongue.

    He called me a bigot once, right out of the blue. I had no idea who he was, or anything. I took great care in responding.

    He ignored me.

    Anyhow, I do not like him, not one little bit.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=553923827 Aleirah Stevens

    Anyone on here who says there's no evidence to support being gay is NOT a chosen life choice needs to do some research on the function and the studies of the hypothalamas and the pituitary gland. There are mulitple studies which have been done on rats in utero where introducing extra sex hormones produces homosexuality in the offspring due to changes in the hypothalamas and pituitary gland. There have been studies done on human homosexual male corpses, slides have been taken of the brain and found the hypothalamas and pituitary gland to be the size of a females, this can only happen in the womb.

    Wake up!! Who would CHOOSE to lose friends because of their sexual orrientation? Who would CHOOSE to be disowned by family members over something they could control? And when geese do it, dogs do it, all sorts of wild and domesticated animals do it wouldn't it be a natural occurence in nature? And why would we be exempt from the natural order of things when we too are simply animals, only with a superiority complex?

    Obviously some people choose to be gay, but that's ok too, I feel blessed and lucky to live in a country where I am free enough to make that choice.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=553923827 Aleirah Stevens

    I'd rather be a homosexual than a hater like you.

  • magarac

    Hi i´am a white european devil!

    One thing you should know is that nature does not care about what anyone does, it never has done and it never will do.
    The ones telling africans about this evil lifestyle are white devils like me. Accept that i´am not christian so i really don´t care who you f**k.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ KsDevil

    Your god is not the solution.

    Your god is the problem.

  • StillRV

    Ozy; That was a very long way to ask me just one question. What does my comment have to do with the doc. The answer is, nothing really. My comment was to the comment board itself. There is very little to say about the content of the doc, as it is self explanatory. I felt more like speaking to those who have posted here than to simply post something like "Man Uganda is f'd up" or "This is horrible". If anyone can actually have an in depth conversation about this topic that either expands upon the content or is contrary to what was presented, that person is not me. I saw in the comments many things that could be discussed and opined upon that were worth talking about, so my comment was to those and not the doc itself. Hope that answered your multi-part question for you.

  • Guest

    Has your dog been reading your doorstep bible on the way in and out?
    He may be illigible for purgatory.
    az

  • StillRV

    Interesting study info. Glad you shared that. That is the type of thing I was talking about in my post below. There is a biological difference that occurs before birth. An actual observable scientific fact to throw in the faces of those who would persecute people for their sexual preference. There is middle ground between mental disease and dna and there it is in your comment. Very cool post.

  • StillRV

    The people in your "mother country" are living in squalor, dieing of diseases that the average first world citizen could get over in days to a week, killing each other constantly, and being bribed to stay that way by Carbon Off-setting companies, And you are concerned about homosexuals? You look to be a fit guy why not go use those muscles and that love of your "mother country" to help build them some sanitation or something? As to "mother country" Which one of the current 47 countries is that (53 if you count the islands). There is a pretty big difference between all of them.

  • StillRV

    Ozy; while I agree with what Qui says here, what does it have to do with the treatment of homosexuals in Uganda? :)

  • Guest

    looks like you lost 15 minutes of your sweet time here.
    az

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    I have tried reading Scientology exercises to him (banging head against walls and such) - does that count?

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    My dog is a massive rottweiler, and very muscley, kinda like the homophobes posting in here........hey you don't think.....naaaw nvm

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    I like the guy. Seems, balanced, intelligent and unbiased. The best bit was where he referenced the mother land and reminded me of Hitler.

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    Agreed

  • Guest

    You're going to make a sisi out of him, scared s*** of aliens.
    az

  • Guest

    You're going to turn him into a weak scared sh**less of aliens.
    az

  • Guest

    This reminds me of a pot grow. You got a bunch of sweet ladies growing, no males around and bang all of a sudden one turns hermaphrodite. az

  • Guest

    May be pot growing is a good way to make one tolerant of homosexuality!
    az

  • http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/about/ Vlatko

    Excellent comment @Aleirah Stevens.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Yeung-Xiao/630927097 Yeung Xiao

    When a the economy and the standard of living is bad, and the solution to these problems complicated or even impossible. politicians directs people's attention towards a problem that is easy to solve, just so they don't seem so useless. This easy problem is usually powerless and voiceless minorities in society, that they know can't fight back. Despite the economy in complete shits, this politician in Uganda is able to win 98% approval using this distraction. (he sure can't do it on his economical record.)

    We in the west do it too. Sweden pass the ban of building Minarets. France ban Muslim head-dress in public. US targets migrant workers who does the hardest labor for far below minimum wage. All of them huge minorities in society who does not have a voice.

    These politicians are cowards. They are like school yard bullies that picks on the most isolated, most defenseless targets to make themselves seem strong and useful. Rather then deal with real issues like economy, jobs, and standards of living.

    Even if Homosexuality is a problem, which let me assure you, it is not. Politicians in Uganda should focus on how to make their country less of a s*** hole. But they that would take too much work and involve too much risk. so they focus on less then 2% of the population because it is safe.

    F***ing cowards, all of them.

  • tackz

    hmm let me see now, so if Jesus was about he would be calling for gays to be killed? I thought Jesus was all about love and forgiveness?? or have i got him totally wrong?? I didnt read about him killing gays and persecuting people on the basis of who they CONSENT to sleep with. What you fear in homosexuality is not the 'sin' as you see it, but what it reveals in yourself, i.e. a deep insecurity, and such a hatred only bourne through sick indoctrination and a disturbing interpretation of what essentially is a religion based on a guy called Jesus who was all about LOVE and FORGIVENESS. Or have you forgotten that bit????

    I just REALLY dont get what it is people fear in homosexuality. It really baffles me. Gays just want to be gay, left alone, live their lives, they dont want to 'recruit', how rediculous is that? No one would choose to be gay, certainly in Uganda, and whats the big deal anyway, its consensual sex and love between adults. And to me, man, there aint nothing wrong with Love, EVER, and I'm sure your Jesus would agree with me on that one. Why dont you stop wasting your life HATING those who LOVE, and do something USEFUL with your life, sir. I thank you.

    oh and if homosexuality is wrong, should all animals that practice homosexuality be imprisoned or murdered??? Go on, kill all those bonobo chimpanzees! and the rest... see where all that hatred will get you. Absolutely nowhere, and further and further from any God that exists. You'll see!

  • Clix (????)

    We're in fact a sorry bunch. You don't have to be Einstein to figure that out (no pun intended). You just admitted that pacifism has practical application, yet jump quickly back on your ideological soapbox to preach how outdated the bible is for containing such teaching. By the way, the bible is not the only book that promotes non-violence. If you have an ax to grind against the bible, it is one thing. Yet, it is another to throw the child out with the bath water.

    Oh, while you're at it, please elaborate on when the bible was actually in vogue and practical document? If, according to you, it is 'outdated' today, it must have been 'indated' sometime in its history. Sometimes, all you need to see the preposterous nature of your own argument is to simply consider its exact opposite.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=635807785 Shannon Elizabeth Staley

    Good. Another BBC production.

  • Sieben Stern

    same with american politics - it's all smoke and mirrors to distract people while the real work never gets done.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ StillRV

    "That was a very long way to ask me just one question."
    • • •
    "Hope that answered your multi-part question for you."

    Your hope of having answered my multi-partjust one question is...
    Suffice it to say, StillRV, you responded to my post.
    Thank you.

    Now, StillRV, I have a dual-part question for you:
    For how long, StillRV, have you known "the girl who dates all men then one day is making out with chicks at bars etc. only to eventually go home with the intellectually deficient dude who thought 'that was so hot'?" Is she a friend of yours?

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ StillRV

    From an earlier post:
    "...because some people do choose to be homosexual."

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Psinet

    Sounds to me like you have a potential 'leather dog' on your hands. Take him to a leather bar. See what happens.(lol)

  • 0zyxcba1

    Casting homosexuality as choice has profound cultural, legal and spiritual ramifications.

    There is not a scrap of observable evidence that 'sexual preference' exists outside a person's particular sexual orientation.

    The phrase within StillRV recent posting:

    "An actual observable scientific fact to throw in the faces of those who would persecute people for their sexual preference."

    is a thinly veiled attempt to convey to the casual reader the idea that "sexual preference"(as opposed to 'sexual orientation') is an actual observable scientific fact, while simultaneously, and superficially, appearing polemic in defense of gay interests.

    Apart from its context's cruel duplicity, the claim that "sexual preference [is] an actual observable scientific fact, is FALSE.

    'Sexual orientation' is the current scientific designator for gender-specific sexual attraction. So-called 'sexual preference' is an informal term used to describe preferences within any particular sexual-orientation(a la 'Gentlemen Prefer Blondes').

    The hypothesis that homosexuality has little to do with any biologically based 'orientation' but is, rather, a psychological 'preference', biological only in so far as psychology is biological, has been discredited over and again throughout recent decades and is accepted nowhere within the mainstream scientific community.

    The term 'sexual orientation', as distinct from that of 'sexual preference', was adopted even by the Catholic Church so as to enable the Church to define homosexuality in scientifically received nomenclature as(to quote the late Pope John-Paul II): "an objective disorder."

    Those persons and institutions who persist in, and insist upon, misuse of the term 'sexual preference' in place of 'sexual orientation' are in the main religiously motivated.

    Given the particulars of Abrahamic dogmas, acceptance of homosexuality as part of nature, thus not subject to choice, leads inexorably to the conclusion that either some fundamental religious precepts are false or that the god is fallible, cruel and unjust, neither of which would be acceptable.

    When in the presentation of convictions concerning homosexuality the author feels compelled to write:

    "Don't go off on me now as if I am somehow anti-gay because I absolutely am not."

    you can be assured that some of the author's best friends are NOT gay!

  • Guest

    If sex wasn't such a taboo thing quite possibly there would be a lot more same sex exchange....and no one to criticize those "loving" embraces.
    az

  • Guest

    did i read "spiritual"? What does that word mean to you? I am confused or uninformed from all your past comments.
    az

  • Kateye70

    Wow. I'm not even going to watch this documentary, it is too heartbreaking to think of. "Man's inhumanity to man", indeed!

    Fortunately I heard on the news this morning that the international community is forcing the Ugandan government to have second thoughts about the death penalty bill, at least.

    Now my rant. People who think gay is a "choice" need a reality check.

    This is reality: I have gay & lesbian relatives and friends. I love them dearly. I know they are good-hearted people who have NOT 'chosen a "lifestyle",' but painfully worked their ways through all the obstacles we as a society put against them.

    Miraculously, my family members made it through adolescence without committing suicide. I like to think it was because they knew their family would still love and accept them for the individuals they are.

    And oddly enough, when they did come out to us it was not a surprise to anyone who cared about them. Nor did it change their basic characters. They are decent, hard-working, caring, loving human beings who contribute to their communities. Some of them even still practice their religious faiths (hey, it takes all kinds!).

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Azilda

    When referring to an entire culture, it is incumbent upon the author to write inclusively of all major elements recognized by that culture, hence the reference to 'spiritual'. After all this is Jesus Land, loosely referred to as America.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ dkn1362

    It's people like you who give heterosexuals a bad name;
    or maybe you're jut stupid.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ StillRV

    What Qui says here has nothing to do with the treatment of homosexuals in Uganda.

    Why do you ask?

  • http://www.topdocumentaryfilms.com Epicurus

    actually this hatred for homosexuals comes from the white mans religion being pushed on the africans.

    in fact if you look at african history you will see homosexuality was accepted and sometimes revered as in certain tribes only homosexuals were "witch doctors"

  • http://www.topdocumentaryfilms.com Epicurus

    all dogs go to heaven.

  • StillRV

    Nice personal attack based on one word choice. I was, until now, unaware of a statutory term being mandated. To me preference and orientation were synonymous. You really are reaching for grounds for an argument. I will not give you one. Believe what you will and say what you want. My friends and I are aware of the truth to my sentiments and I do not need your approval. Take care of yourself and try to enjoy life rather than being pedantic and defensive to the point of attacking someone who is not even against you.

  • StillRV

    Yes some do choose to engage in homosexual activities without having the Orientation to it. That is a fact and you can whine all you want about it. When someone fools around with someone of the same sex once as "experimentation" they are not homosexual wouldn't you agree? By the way I am male not female so the hers and shes are the wrong word. Perhaps I should post 57 responses to unrelated comments about your inability to differentiate the two words?

  • StillRV

    In answer to that two part question Yes and also no. Yes I am friends with some women who have done exactly that. They have gotten drunk and made out with other women at clubs strictly for the attention it gets them. Also there are a great many who do the same that I do not personally know. Why do you ask?

  • StillRV

    One last comment on this page. It is not directly related to the doc and its content per say.
    Peaches was a sleight built African American male who lived her entire adult life as a woman. She sadly was also a drug addict and had turned to prostitution as a means to support herself and her habit. On many occasions that habit landed her in an emergency room for anything from accidental overdose to bruises and general illness. On many of those visits to the emergency room she interacted with a hospital staff member who saw only a human who was hurting. That staff member tried time and again to get her to enter a rehab and to distance herself from negative influences in her life. Sadly that same staff member had to watch her pass on from this life after a sickening and evil "john" had beaten and repeatedly stabbed her. the John had done this after having intercourse with her and he did it because he "hated gays". That man went to prison where he belongs and should rot. That hospital staff member was me. And Peaches, the kind, yet broken human being has fresh flowers on her grave at least once a year.
    The point is. Do not judge people whom you do not know. If you doubt the truth of this story I will try to obtain a link for you to look it up in the local papers. Thank you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ivan-Topic/505754165 Ivan Topic

    The bible is outdated in numerous areas and ways, not just regarding the idea of pacifism. It is full of contradictions, horror(old testament), and scientific inaccuracies. But I pointed out why what Jesus preached is not always possible so I will address that. My argument is not that pacifism doesn't have a place in some movements. It depends on the circumstances and what society you live in. If you take a look at the civil rights era. Black people weren't being taken to concentration camps to be slaughtered like animals. It was an entirely different situation to the Nazis final solution. At what point would have pacifism stopped Hitlers armies? Can you honestly say that silent protest would have changed peoples minds? Christ teaches us to turn the other cheek. This would not have been possible in Nazi Germany. Military action had to be taken, which goes against Christs teaching. That was my entire point.

    I know that we have other books that promote non-violence. I don't promote violence, I just realize that in certain situation it is necessary. Forgive me if I'm a bit concerned about politicians basing legislation on some holy book written thousands of years ago by an ignorant civilization. While some basic teachings of the bible do stand and may have some merit, others simply do not. You may not like it but it is this book and others like it that are used as a catalyst to take others rights away. Find me on conflict in the world today that does not have a religious underbelly? Why would there be conflict if Jesus preached non-violence? Well, it simple really. While some people may ignore the bad laws of these holy texts and only stick to the laws that are acceptable by society, to others there is no "good" laws or "bad" laws, for in their eyes there is only GODS LAW. Are we going to pretend that homosexuality is not called an abomination? It's a slippery slope.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ElmoPutz David Foster

    God has TEN laws. Where does it say: "Thou shalt not suck .... ."?

  • Clix (????)

    The bible is a book that is edited into its current format exactly 400 years ago, by a certain King James of England. The various texts that make up the bible were written over thousands of years by various people with various motives. Considering all that, it is not much of a surprise that there are glaring contradictions in the bible. You seem to also allude that those who wrote the bible arose from an ignorant civilization. You must be an astute student of modern propaganda that history and progress are a straight-line phenomenon that have brought us from the primitive past to the technological advanced present. Contrary to that, rarely have been more humble and honest words have been uttered as we stand on the shoulders of giants. Here is a surprise to you; science is not a phenomenon that arose in the last 400 years to replace religion. It is a phenomenon that evolved right alongside with religion. For most non-western civilizations, science and religion were two sides of the same coin. Even in Europe, the scientific thought process grew out of religious circles in late medieval period. I think you will find it more enlightening if you look beyond the pop-culture influenced version of history and facts.

    Your argument regarding pacifism is almost schizophrenic. Are you saying it is an outdated and useless approach to resolving differences, or does it still have its uses? If you believe violence is the better way to address conflict, why do you then object to the method employed by those who oppose homosexuality in Uganda? If violence is a better way to resolve conflicts, why hasn't the world seen better days since WWI given the unprecedented number of armed conflicts the world has ever seen? Why do we today find ourselves at the edge of self-destruction via violence (supposedly at the highest point of human civilization according to you and those who believe history is a straight-line)?

  • StillRV

    Because if say I were to make a comment not about the treatment of gays in Uganda I would be subject to a 3 page letter.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ StillRV

    I could quite easily have gone much further; I think you know that.

    I do not require authorization from you to believe what I will nor your permission to say what I want.

    I am not "reaching for grounds for an argument" as you hardly make for a worthy opponent.

    For one who speaks as authoritatively as you on so very many points of interest concerning homosexuality, I am startled to learn of your alleged ignorance of the decade-long struggle to get homosexuality classified as a 'sexual orientation' in DSM-IV, a classification willfully ignored by conservative religious factions in favor of their preferred labelings: 'sexual preference' and, worse still, 'lifestyle', implying choice!.

    I am happy to have educated you.

    "One word choice," indeed!
    Were that the only offense, I should have ignored it completely. I have not attacked you personally, or otherwise. I am holding you as an example, not "based on one word choice," as you so innocently claim, but rather due to a dense, well worded listing of half-truths, lies, irrelevancies, insulting alusions, and one cherry-picked statement allegedly submitted by some unidentified contributor.

    StillRV, you are not known for lack of clarity. Your intentions could not be more pointed: trivialize and demoralize.

    Give it a rest.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ StillRV

    i n n o c e n c e

  • 0zyxcba1

    StillRV's post, from which I drew my comments,
    unedited, unabridged:

    "I don't believe that the majority of homosexuals 'choose' their lifestyle. I however think that the whole 'gay gene' argument is a bit over reaching. There has been no proven gene for homosexuality, or for any preference for that matter. Bottom line is that sexual attraction is a preference. Saying that there is a gene that controls that you may as well say there is a gene that controls liking blonds over brunets, or even liking apples over oranges. That is just silly. I can understand the desire to say there is a 'gay gene' because it would provide an indisputable reason to those who find sexual preference to be a big deal. As to the argument made earlier by someone here that homosexuality is the next step in evolution...No just No. Seriously it is fine that someone is gay but that is just insane to say that. Evolution by it's very nature is about the survival of a species. Evolution is about some physiological change that benefits the species in terms of survival, and the elimination of species procreation is the opposite of that. Just saying to all of the homosexuals who take up the cause of acceptance and equality there are much better arguments that are not either baseless of patently false. Don't go off on me now as if I am somehow anti-gay because I absolutely am not. I just think that a more supportable basis for your cause would be a benefit to you all. And yes I did say majority in the beginning because some people do choose to be homosexual. It is not, for them, about attraction but about rebellion or some other motivation. And you all have seen these people just as I have. The girl who dates all men then one day is making out with chicks at bars etc. only to eventually go home with the intellectually deficient dude who thought 'that was so hot'."

  • http://twitter.com/AmaniArk AmaniArk

    So this guy saw the documentary "Missionaries of Hate" a previous documentary made about the uprising against gays in Uganda and decided he was going to hop and skip to Uganda. This ignorant leader of this uprising later shows this fetish porn in a church to the congregation. Now you show porn in the Lord's holy house what hypocritical fire are you dancing around. As far as human rights this particular group killing people based on their orientation will get a great surprise on judgment day that's all I have to say.

  • Guest

    Your post is one of the most ignorant I have read today. Tell me, are you a geneticist? So you're "qualified" to speak on suck matters as "I however think that the whole 'gay gene' argument is a bit over reaching". My advice to you is DO SOME RESEARCH before you make yourself look even more like the fool you already are.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ElmoPutz David Foster

    LOL "...qualified to speak on suck matters..." That's like the ultimate Freudian slip!

    (sorry, couldn't resist)

  • StillRV

    If you feel trivialized or demoralized by my statements here I am sorry for that. Though I think that that issue stems more within yourself than in the content of my statement. If you are truly comfortable with yourself as you are my statement would not have offended you as it was in no way inflammatory.

  • StillRV

    Science is not fact until proven. Stating a scientific premise as factual before proven is over reaching. That is how science works. I have done research. I do a great deal of research into a great many issues. Genetics is one of those. Give me one link to a conclusive study and I will gladly make full apology. I agree as to the premise of not being a choice and that one can simple be born homosexual. And while there have been studies that have shown physiological distinctions no "gay gene" has been found. The human body is quite complex and genetics is only a small part of that. Why this is such a sticky argument eludes me. Having a genetic predetermination is no more of a strong argument to detractors than Biochemical developmental differentiation and physiology. So why so angsty? You guys are way way too hypersensitive. Having a defensive, victims mentality make one actively look for and perceive attacks and slights where none are offered.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ivan-Topic/505754165 Ivan Topic

    I understand that science has evolved right alongside religion. In fact, I never stated anything to the contrary. I merely stated that the knowledge of the universe and everything that we know today was not known back then. Therefore, looking at it from today's perspective, that was an ignorant civilization when compared to ours. However, I will say that many of these giants we speak of have lost their lives for studying subjects that went against the Church. This is not to say that these progressive thinkers weren't religious but rather that they had a different interpretation to a vague and often wrong text. Instead of shutting off their brains and believing the bible word for word, they choose the route that often had deadly consequences.

    In regards to pacifism, I have clearly stated on numerous occasions that it can still have its uses in certain movements. I have also stated repeatedly that it cannot be applied in all situations. I never once suggested that violence was a better way to resolve all conflicts but once again, merely that it is necessary in certain situations. World War 2 being one of them. Each conflict has a different history. A different location. Different belligerents and so on. How to solve these problems shouldn't be as simple as black and white, meaning violence or pacifism. There is no one method you can apply in all situations or conflicts. There has to be a dialogue between people to find the best solution and that we should not use an ancient book to arrive at that solution, specifically when that book promotes only one form of resistance. There is no sense in responding to your last few sentences as I don't once state that violence is always the answer, so your point is mute. However, I would like you to take a look where the vast majority of these conflicts are going on and what form of governments are in place in those locations. Then look at the root of these conflicts.

  • StillRV

    P E D A N T I C

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ StillRV

    You're not a fact until proven.

  • Clix (????)

    Your emotionally loaded and pedantic responses to StillRV are nauseating. For a supposedly intelligent person, you have a difficult time differentiating between a religious fundamentalist who has an ax to grind against homosexuals and one who has no apparent problems with homosexuals but questions the veracity of the scientific information stating homosexuality is a genetic phenomenon. You have refuted not one iota of the evidence he/she provided, yet you attempt to associate him/her with an easily impeachable group (religious fundamentalists) based on word choice (sexual preference vs. sexual orientation) to score cheap points.

    Your overtly dramatic approach in your argument doesn't help your cause and helps alienate people who don't have a fundamental problem with your 'sexual orientation', yet find your methods in fighting for acceptance in a society questionable.

  • Clix (????)

    Interesting that you confuse everyday people for power-hungry African politicians. I believe there is more difference between two than simple semantics.

  • Clix (????)

    I merely stated that the knowledge of the universe and everything that we know today was not known back then.

    Really? On what factual evidence do you base such assertion? Here is one contrary example to your assertion. Have you heard of the Dogons, a remote Malian people who have known for generations that a dwarf star named Sirius B accompanied the brightest star in the sky, Sirius A, long before NASA built a powerful enough telescope to view Sirius B in the mid 1990s?

    However, I will say that many of these giants we speak of have lost their lives for studying subjects that went against the Church.

    Please name one scientist who was killed for bringing up a scientific though that challenged the church? Don't forget, the mere idea of the theory of evolution was synthesized put forward during European medieval era when persecution against scientists was at its highest. The truth was, there wasn't much of a distinction between science and matters of faith until we made them matters of opposing values in modern times. Most early (medieval) European scientists were monks. Contrary to popular belief, medieval Europe was not a period of dark age for Europe. In fact, contrary. earnest examination of the world about us started in the church in Europe at this time. Keep in mind that this has been going all along among other people going back the Egyptian civilization and past.

    As far non-violence, you stated that the idea is based on the teachings of Jesus and outdated, which prompted my initial response to you. You have never said violence is the only way explicitly. But your earlier comment indicating the non-violence teachings of Jesus are outdated implicitly imply that non-violence is an outdated form of conflict resolution in our time.

  • Jack1952

    @ Ozyxcbal

    I don't remember ever calling you a bigot. I suggested that Doug Everett might be biased.
    I didn't respond because I have been ill and haven't been on line much.
    As for my poem, it was in response to a comment made by Epicurus that another post rhymed. That rhyming post I found distasteful in its bias and I had a little fun with it by taking a poke at its author.
    Surprised by the rancor in your response.

    @ tomregit

    lol. Your little rhyme made me smile.
    I haven't had one in a while.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ StillRV

    You write, StillRV, as though you were repeating yourself. Your original statement reads:

    "And yes I did say majority in the beginning because some people do choose to be homosexual."

    You now pretend we argued over behavior.

    Changing the subject and then pretending that is what we argued is just the kind of cheap, shabby trick of rhetoric someone with no self-respect will resort to.

    I once said of you, StillRV, you would never prove a worthy opponent in argument. I was right.

  • http://grahamghana.wordpress.com/ Graham

    @Clix - there are other explanations for the Dogon example you gave which have come to light more recently. They're worth checking up on even if you decide to disagree with them later.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6XI44FTVA4SGOO7OPEDQFCRMQI Wequalme

    the old man at 4:19 knew too much too well...... :P

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_6ZTPWL6AA7JJSHFC4YFTJLCUNE ?????

    rofl... he did didnt he?

  • Clix (????)

    Graham...I have. There are essentially two explanations:

    1. Europeans who came in contact with the Dogons earlier in the 20th century told them about Sirius B.

    2. Ancient aliens told them about Sirius B.

    I disagree with both. Not too sure about the ancient aliens one though! ;-)

  • Clix (????)

    I couldn't help laughing my a$$ off after watching the clip again based on your comment. However, this is very much a typically African way of communication, often graphic and vivid. Not to be confused with experience.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001505851234 Luke McCarty

    It's funny when the idiots on the radio said "You're destroying Africa" when ther Egyptians (the granduer of African history in terms of recent years) embraced all sexualities, including the Aztecs and the Sumers (although I think the Sumers were southern Europe).

    In any case, they're wrong, and I felt like smacking them upside the head.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_4B67IYBTIMFUXJ2C5OVHFZXD5M Fanny Adams.

    It's not ok to be Gay, but you can go ahead and rape children or beat women.

  • ellenpdx

    I can't believe how so many "heterosexuals" on here think it's a choice, when I can sit back and ask, "Is being heterosexual a choice?" If you answered no, then that translates to what it is like being gay. If you don' understand what I mean, well, then I simply feel sorry for you.

  • http://twitter.com/SWISHFOOT yttkaaa

    Feel sad for these clueless idiots, thanks to religion.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_U4MVUEV6ZW3VKJOKC6WRAJENFM Isabella

    Thanks to colonizing, africa is one of the most retarded places on earth. Really disgusting that they allow churches and politicians to lie to the public and the children.

  • Guest

    Didn't watched that doc yet, but...
    I was just reading the latest comments to see where there action is.
    Anyhow...

    How would you call Powell's disclosure of the hidden WMD in Irak?
    If I remember well, it was televised here and there on planet earth?

    More over, how can you figure out where in your fridg did an elephant hide? Look at the track it left in the butter and from there, follow it, he's at the other end...

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=624930315 Jay Gannon

    To suggest that sexual preference is likely determined by anything simpler than a complex, poorly understood mixture of biology, environmental factors, and free will is likely a gross oversimplification, and the explanation may vary from person to person. The truth is, we simply don't know, and to pretend we do is ridiculous and unscientific.

    It's a gross oversimplification to suggest that it's all a matter of choice, as religious conservatives do, and a gross oversimplification to put everything onto the shoulders of a gay gene as many gay rights supporters do. Actually, the whole debate sadly excludes more radical members of the LGB community who identify as "queer by choice". I leave out the T because gender identity is something quite different than sexual preference.

    So what if it is a choice? That doesn't make it an invalid choice, and it doesn't give you or anyone else the right to take away that choice. It actually seems a bit contradictory to be pushing for pride on the one hand and 'i can't help it' on the other. As far as I'm concerned pride should be reserved for ones own accomplishments and decisions that define us, not things we can't help. So be proud if you're gay, bi, straight, whatever you are. And stop saying "I can't help it" or "I didn't choose to be this way" because while maybe you didn't consciously choose it or maybe you did, does it matter? would it really be a bad thing if you did?

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Jay Gannon

    No gay person I know claims that a "gay gene" has been discovered.

    Wherever did you pick up such a crazy idea as that?!

    No 'heterosexual gene' has been discovered, either, as far as I know.

    The real question, Jay, is(assuming you are a straight male), when was that 'big day' when you CHOSE not to be gay? Jay, assuming you are a heterosexual male, can you please tell us what day of the week it was that you CHOSE to get a hard on looking at naked women?

    Don't be shy. Share!
    ROTFLMFAO

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Jay Gannon

    I asked you questions you CHOSE to ignore.

    My only assumption is that, as complex as the unfolding of sexual orientation is, CHOICE is not a factor.

    I hold this truth to be self-evident: Behavior is subject to choice. Desire is not.

    You know, Jay, I carried on a lengthy discussion with someone at this very site, here at TDF, concerning this very same subject, but this person was nowhere near as stupid as you! If you think I am going to waste my time on a dumbbell like you, then you are even more stupid than I think.

    Hasta la vista! baby.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=624930315 Jay Gannon

    well, generally, when someone chooses to make the incorrect assumption that I'm straight, I generally choose to ignore it unless I have reason to do otherwise - and it appears to be that your continued ignorance has given me just that.

    but guess what? there was a time when I would have identified as being straight. but no longer. i chose to be queer. I now identify as being pansexual, and I CHOSE it - for a number of reasons, years ago. Choice came first, attraction actually came later. And I don't regret the choice for a second.

    yes, I chose it. and before you tell me that a) i didn't actually choose it or b) that I'm not *really* queer, or that I was never *really* straight or any of the other deluded arguments I've heard over the years from people who seem to think they know the workings of my innermost thoughts better than I do, I have to ask:

    Who the hell made you or anyone else the keeper at the gates of the queer queendom?

    Don't get me wrong, though. I would never suggest that it is a conscious choice for everyone. Just for some of us, and the more radical and revolutionary among us refuse to be ignored.

    Also, answer me this:

    Before Japan opened to the west, among males at least, it was actually considered unusual, a mild form of eccentricity for men to either not enjoy sex with other men as well as with women, or to not enjoy sex with women and only enjoy it with men.

    It was pretty much the case that bisexuality-in-practice, and not modern orientation-essentialism (with its bizarre constructs of 'gay' 'straight' 'bisexual' etc as fixed, unchanging states that ignore the real nature of human sexuality - its overwhelming fluidity) was the norm.

    This definitely is no longer the case - as that quickly ended, with Japan's introduction to Christianity, the Meiji restoration/revolution, etc.

    So if that's true, and if your crude biological determinism is also true, how was the biological makeup of the Japanese people able to change so radically within a generation or two? Was there a widespread genetic mutation?

    Or could it be that things are not as simple as you're suggesting and that cultural and environmental factors could play a major role, as well as individual factors like our own free will?

    If behavior is subject to choice but desire is not, like you suggest, could it be the case that all of those MSM (men having sex with men) in Japan (i use that term because they would have had no real concept of 'gay' in the particular sense that we do in our culture) - could it be that they didn't really have a choice in the matter? could be of course, but it wouldn't explain the radical shift. Or could it be that they were doing it, but they really didn't have any desire to do it? I don't know, sounds like they were having lots of fun to me. Perhaps we might look elsewhere other than modern orientation-essentialist concepts that basically break sexual preference down into a series of rigid medical diagnoses, rather than celebrating who we actually are.

    and who we actually are - is very closely related is the Bonobo - and Bonobo are renowned for exhibiting exactly that tendency that I spoke of - sexual fluidity. I'd suggest that it's largely because they don't have culture shaping their desires to the degree that we do.

    Karl Marx once wrote that "the tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living" and I think he was dead on with that one. One area in which it definitely weighs very heavy is in our expression of sexuality.

    So perhaps the eventual forceful overthrow of all hitherto existing social, political, and economic conditions and the establishment of world communism will help to liberate sexuality just as it will help to emancipate humanity in other spheres as well, like from the tyranny of class society, patriarchy, etc. I suspect that it will. Marx himself unfortunately held very Victorian prejudices when it came to the notion of homosexuality, as he was, like everyone else is, a product of his time - but that doesn't mean that the revolutionaries of today and tomorrow need to be bound by the same prejudices.

    And someday, maybe when the working class successfully seize power from their capitalist oppressors, or maybe long before then, crude biological determinism will be considered about as relevant to our understanding of human behavour as palmistry is.

    So can you answer my question? Maybe you can, maybe not. Of course, you could just do what you said you'd do, and choose not to answer, continue to ignore me and my "stupidity". That's generally what happens to revolutionaries, at least until it becomes impossible to do so any longer.

    Either way, it's your choice in life, just like I've made mine. In the meantime, however, the reason we're both in this thread in the first place, I'd imagine, is that there are real situations in which real people are being oppressed for their sexual expression, and to ignore that would be criminal. The best way to fight it is to fight for revolution. A good communist must act as a "tribune against all oppression" (Lenin)

    Or, alternatively you could choose to side with the ruling class and in the end be a useful idiot of sorts for the kinds of folks who engineer the type of sexual repression I'm sure we'd both find ourselves in opposition to. Again, it's your choice.

  • http://www.facebook.com/harry.n.walker Harry Walker

    0zyxcba1 and Jay Gannon, it's like reading youtube comments... within two posts that had descended into petty insults.

    Ozyxcba1, just because you don't know any gay people that hold some concept of a gay gene, doesn't mean that such people don't exist... a simple google search identifies that the idea has been thrown around. It's an outdated, falsified theory, but that doesn't exclude anyone from still believing it to some degree. They may have just not read anything on the subject for a while, or not understand genetics very well... there's plenty who fit that description.

    And as to applying the same theory to describing heterosexuality and homosexuality, you shouldn't. The view epitomised by many religions - that because homosexuality doesn't result in reproduction, it is unnatural and unintended by god(s) - IS oversimplified, IS ludicrous, IS an incomplete argument, but DOES have a basis in fact. So saying that because a person didn't choose to be straight, they therefore didn't choose - in some way - to be gay, is missing a few steps in logic. In short, the human species has an absolute need to support heterosexual sex, which is not shared with homosexual sex. Does that mean homosexuality is wrong? Of course not, because by that criteria anything other than hetero sex, eating and sleeping would be wrong. And therein lies a counterargument to the "natural way of things" view of sexuality.

    But having said that: Jay, the mere fact that something may be a choice doesn't mean a legal system "doesn't have the right" to control, or "take away" that choice. Western, indeed most, legal systems are based on the concept that individuals have choices in most, or every, part of their lives, but some of those choices should be controlled, or punished for whatever reason the society decides. Of course the case at hand isn't one I support, and is incredibly misguided and needlessly discriminatory, but legal systems govern their citizens' choices.

    Having played such a devil's advocate, perhaps I should clarify my own view a little more: Sexuality is fluid, best described as a continuum, and is determined by a mix of heretidary, environmental, and unidentifiable factors. There does seem to be a larger set of us at the heterosexual side than the others, but nonetheless "everyone's a shade of grey" seems to fit best. It's a good point that Jay brought up about pre-western japanese culture: the distinction of gay, bi, or straight, and even the concept of one sexuality for life is entirely arbitrary. Although maybe arbitrarily stipulated for some reason? A more stable identity, while possibly making us feel restricted or contrived, can make the other parties in our relationships more comfortable around us. So the advice I would give to clients?
    Be aware of your desires, maintain your freedom to express them, and work towards understanding these needs in others as well as yourself.
    I couldn't be gladder to live in Sydney. Definitely not perfect, but on the opposite pole to Uganda.

  • avd420

    I've noticed the "choice" arguement has come up. Being attracted to your own sex is not a choice, having sex with them is.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001879937255 Chantel Muzzerall

    Wow. This Documentary... Wow!
    To go over there, knowing the risks, weather in hope to raise awareness in Uganda, or to raise awareness here. Regardless of your personal views on this topic, is it not fair to at least appreciate that Scott Mills went through all of this. Risking his life..?
    Now getting into the discussion topic itself, personally.. If someone is willing to go through all of that trouble -go to a place where he/she could be killed just by a sexual preference- to say that its not real to gays? I understand that a lot of people struggle accepting homosexuality because so many OF those people do not understand it. Some people cannot understand what they can not relate to, see for themselves, witness first hand. Aside from that being a similar argument against religion, does that make it right for anyone else to judge? Weather its judging people for their Religion (i.e. Second World War-Current Wars) their skin color (i.e. Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King Jr.) their gender (i.e. Women's Movement) or Sexual preference (i.e. Where to Begin..) Who's to say what is right or wrong.
    If one's choice is to support the religious, traditional, and/or conservative perspective on this topic, then it wouldn't be right for anyone to stop them..?Why does the opposite apply when it is about a minority?
    The homosexuals -in my opinion, and the opinion of Scott Mills- is that gays are not trying to convert anyone, but instead defend themselves and ask for an equal chance. Just as it was hard for a couple of different nationalities, religions etc. to be together, over time and patience this matter has become less and less of an issue. Homosexuals are only hoping... and asking, for the same respect.
    Just as Hitler was trying to kill off all of those that he didn't deem fit for this world, Uganda is trying to pass a bill, that will let them do the same.
    How is it okay to justify harming, arresting or killing someone for being gay yet - as a society we have evolved to accept that people are who they are. It may not be the lifestyle everyone else wants to live, but instead accept them for who they are.
    Thank You for Your time of Reading this.

    -Chantel Grace.

  • avd420

    Great post Chantel. But I would advise against comparing this (or anything) to Hitler. That technique is used so much that it no longer has any meaning and makes your point look weak.
    "In an arguement when someone mentions Hitler, they've just admitted defeat."

  • 0zyxcba1

    "Obviously some people choose to be gay, but that's ok too, I feel blessed and lucky to live in a country where I am free enough to make that choice."

    That statement is ludicrous!

    And to think I gave you a thumbs up and even responded with a post
    of praise, not having noticed the last sentence.

    And the initial word "OBVIOUSLY." 'Obviously'? ? To whom?

    Heterosexual prisoners who engage in homosexual behavior for even a decade or more never cease to be heterosexual. Just ask them. And upon release, they return to heterosexual behavior.

    Though rare, the sexual orientation of an individual may change over the course of a lifetime. And even in these cases, the phenomenon has zip to do with 'choice'.

    It goes without saying that under certain circumstances, one is capable
    of choosing sexual behavior. But the notion that one, under any circum-stances, whatsoever, CHOOSES sexual orientation is just, plain, silly. This notion even contradicts the very point in the body of your post!

    Just being human tells one that no one in the 500,000 year history of humankind has ever chosen their sexual orientation. Whatever it is you believe one may be 'choosing', it certainly is not sexual orientation!

    And I am still utterly flabbergasted at your nonchalant: "Obviously."

    Obviously! The very notion is laughable. Whatever had you been smoking? Whatever possessed you? Perhaps you may wish to consider CHOOSING to edit your posted comment so as to render it self-consistent and coherent.

    I am very sorry to write this to you, as the whole of your post, sans last inexplicable sentence, is extremely interesting and informative.

    Thanks for reading this.

    0z

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Vlatko
    "Excellent comment..."

    I urge you to reread the comment, Vlatko, paying particular attention to the last sentence.

    0z

  • Guest

    It will never be illegal to be gay, personal Sex has nothing to do with laws.
    az

  • Guest

    Could it be that we are all bisexual as children and that we narrow our strongest call as we grow.
    We are taught as children to prefer the opposite gender, some do and some never get convinced by the majority.
    May be we choose to be heterosexual.
    az

  • Guest

    I would say most people i have talked to say that they discovered their sexual parts by "sharing them" with little girls if they were little girls and little boys if they were little boys.
    And yes a lot of little boys and girls played doctors.
    az

  • cezy

    This documentary made me very angry. The first time I read of the anti-gay bill I felt sad, but after seeing these images I feel mostly anger.
    Luckily, I am not the only one.
    Many governments threatened to withdraw their financial aid if the bill was passed.
    So far the bill has been postponed, but most likely not forgotten.
    And Mills is definitely right. Having lived in a place as tolerant and open minded like London, it's very easy to forget how bigoted the rest of the world can be.
    But then again, oscar wilde was jailed for homosexuality a bit more than 100 years ago, and British poets had to come to Italy in order to be free from their society's moral judgement, so I shouldn't forget that all places evolve in their own time.
    Let's just hope this cultural evolution doesn't take too long and cost too many lives.

  • http://www.facebook.com/clairebo Claire Albrecht

    You would think that a news organization as "esteemed" as the BBC would have chosen a person to host a documentary on such an important topic that was more articulate and well versed on the subject of Homosexuality in Africa. This is a very important topic indeed, and the host misses repeated opportunities to engage in meaningful discussion with Ugandans about the issue. He fails to back up his position with anything more than a joke or his hands over his face. When he visits the "slums" where the 5 gay men are living together he says that "they are forced to live here in this shit because they are gay." What about all of the other families living in that housing? Do those living conditions really have anything to do with being gay? The lesbian who he goes to visit is "living in a prison" with bars over the windows, if he had looked into the lives of Kampalans at all he would acknowledge that many affluent homes in the area are designed with the same security precautions.
    Most importantly, he should have been open and up front about his sexuality in every encounter, he would not have been attacked as he wasn't in the encounters when he did disclose his orientation. He had a marvelous opportunity with those young students to really reach out to them. He could have pointed out that- while they think that homosexuality is coming from "the West" it is actually CHRISTIANITY and HOMOPHOBIA that is the Western influence affecting people perceptions on the issue.
    He HANDED MONEY to the witch doctor, directly promoting the trade and the idea that people can be "cured" of their sexual orientation.

    Seems to me a wasted opportunity at what could have otherwise been a very interesting opportunity. Perhaps the BBC should send over a gay man or woman who is well-spoken, informed, and not willing to compromise who they are and hide their sexuality for fear of a confrontation (really would he have been attacked on camera? cowardice) instead of a radio DJ who has had life so easy (which he feels inclined to remind gay Ugandans about as if they didn't know that already).

  • paraisonero

    the westboro church and its holier-than-thou members should move to uganda. this country with its medieval beliefs and lifestyle should be a paradise for them.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NPNKTIO7OGEOUGB37XFR6TK63E Anamaria

    I don't agree with the homosexual life style but this is so sad what is happening to the homosexuals there. Even if you don't agree with someone and their lifestyle you don't have to kill or abuse them.

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Anamaria
    "I don't agree with the homosexual life style..."

    Homosexuality is NOT a "life style."

    'Lifestyle' is a term used in advertising, beginning in 1961, to market products targeted at consumers based upon age and personality types. Lifestyle marketing was the brainchild of Daniel Yankrlovich of DYG, Inc., a market research firm, tracking social trends.

    'Lifestyle' is used in reference to gay people by Christian conservatives
    for the express purpose of deliberately misleading stupid people into believing in the absurdity that being gay is a choice.

    Yeah, sure!

    Like the 4000 gay youths executed in the Islamic Republic of Iran since the 1979 revolution chose to be gay. Try telling that to an Iranian mother living with a photograph for a son, Christian!

    And anyhow, who gives a rat's ass what you agree or disagree with ?!

    0z

    P.S.:
    "...this is so sad what is happening to the homosexuals there."

    And wouldn't it be "so sad" if they started feeding Christians to the lions, again, too?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_NPNKTIO7OGEOUGB37XFR6TK63E Anamaria

    Don't be angry, it's OK, all will be better one day, so don't be rude.

    You know who cares what I agree or disagree with? I...I care and that's all that matters. Besides, I have just as much right as you do, to give my opinion.

  • Brittney Kroiss

    What is going on right now throughout the world with the LGBT community saddens me greatly. It is a huge violation against human rights... to ban being something is utterly ridiculous. It's ridiculous enough that gay marriage is banned in the majority of the world but banning someone for BEING gay makes me sick. How about we ban hate instead?

  • 0zyxcba1

    @ Anamaria
    "...I care and that's all that matters."

    Yes, Anamaria, I had suspected as much.
    To you, what you care is all that matters.

    0z

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Yollie-Michelle/100002039553333 Yollie Michelle

    im sory but i cant tell whos a chick or a guy in the clips from uganda so theres just gonna have to be mad if i hit on someone whos the same sex lol

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Yollie-Michelle/100002039553333 Yollie Michelle

    Are you saying that just because your attracted to the same sex you shouldnt have sex with them??

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=553923827 Aleirah Stevens

    Thank you for you compelling argument Oz, I understand how many would see this post as contradictory. The impression I get from your response is you do not believe in sexual preference, only sexual orientation yet you talk of prisoners who will engage in homosexual "behaviours". Did those prisoners not choose homosexual behaviours at the time when they could have chosen not to? And wouldn't this be a sexual preference? If we flipped this the other way and a gay man marries a woman and has children, wouldn't this mean they have a sexual orientation but have chosen a sexual preference? And what of people who are sexually attracted to both males and females, or do you not believe in this either?

    The information stated in my post is a large piece of the biological puzzle, however, human beings are complex, nothing is black and white and human beings are able to make complex decisions despite their desires.

    To quickly zoom in on the word "obviously", it is human nature for many to test and defy the norms of society, this includes sexuality. You don't need a degree in rocket science to pick that up.

    I once received a dressing down from a gay person for not adding the last paragraph in a similar post so in the spirit of damned if you do and damned if you don't, the last statement remains.

    Again thank you for your comment. I eagerly await your sarcastic and condescending reply :)

  • avd420

    No.

  • avd420

    Aleirah,

    Prison sex is driven by dominance, not sexual attraction or a loving realtionship.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Brandon-Gordon/1629701661 Brandon Gordon

    the only thing a gay person chooses about their sexuality is to stay in the closet... and at times for so long that they now have kids and a wife they don't know what to do with. that's the only thing wrong with being gay... misleading your self and the world just to fit in.

    one thing that my mom brought up to me " why is it when people have an issues with gay people do they only think about sex?" good question mom!

    last time i checked i don't sit around think about who that guy/ girl was just fucking... so why when i tell you i'm gay do you automatically care what i do with my husband in our bedroom, in privet ?
    the only choose that we all should have is to stop caring about what others are doing and take care of them selves, honestly.

    if your a strait person worried about getting hit on, dont think so highly of your self... we gays are often really picky, and honey your not my type... a new gay is to much work! and im married Sorry! (to a man)
    And if some how you are a strait man that is hit on, and the person doesn't get the hit and still keeps on hitting on you. now you know how annoyed the woman that you hit on are when you dont stop after they'v told you no.
    its still no reason to go all gay bashy on us ... it meas they are just as drunk as you are.. and are defiantly wearing there beer goggles and not thinking clearly. obviously!

  • nuno1972

    And what do you mean with homosexual lifestyle? Did it crossed your mind that being gay is not a life style but only a condition, and you live it accordingly to your personal nature and not as a pattern of promiscuity? I think I know what you mean, but just a small example, swingers are straight people and still it's not considered a 'traditional' life style, no?

  • http://twitter.com/ghantal guerkan hantal

    Well, that society's rather uneducated than macho. This reminds me of european prehistoric times. And once again of course, the curch's controlling the unknowing herd.

  • Godsclaws

    wow, Iv been replacing tv with these docos for weeks now and this is the BEST one I had seen so far. Insightful, educational and a great representation of culture and views regarding homosexuality. EXCELLENT! That dude was great in this, kind, brave and strong.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7ADQ5ORCNK7KCM7WAKKH2R45JM H

    well said. people should accept that gays are consenting adults and can do as they like in all aspects of life just as straight people can. more gays could come out leaving hiding and living a lie to pedophiles and rapist who dont deserve a life at all.
    i'm straight and have been introduced to both gay and straight couples over the years, and not once did i consider any of them in a sexual situation....!

  • sharq_way

    " At the beginning it was Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve" LOL, good point !

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=686970084 Rachel Strack

    I am so depressed after watching this. Unbelievable

  • http://twitter.com/asalhayop jemuel bryan

    you cannot blame Uganda for this kind of issue..that is their society, their culture...England's society cannot be the standard society of all nation

  • http://profiles.google.com/crix.makin Toffee TechNoir

    If God made Eve from Adam's rib, then Adam and Eve were basically genetically the same, so we're all the mutant inbred offspring of identical twins, if you believe that fairy tale. At least Adam and Steve isn't gonna lead to incest babies.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1362789959 Carl Frodge

    All I'm thinking is...why would he want to go there?

  • http://www.facebook.com/jake.leavitt Jake Leavitt

    But the protection of basic human rights should supersede the protection of cultural traditions. It isn't wrong because it is "culturally backward" as some may call it but because it is a violation of the basic human rights deserved by all people, regardless of race, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, social class, religion, etc.

  • Fenix Ramos

    Wow i feel so sorry for there ignorance. then they wonder why they are dying from diseases and hunger. Shame shame shame on the church.

  • Moses Otieno

    Jemuel, yours is probably the best comment I've seen here. What right does the UK have to impose their values on others? The decision on whether to approve of the gay lifestyles is solely the Ugandans'. Period

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1457954972 Juan Colon

    No it's the actual gay populations choice

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1457954972 Juan Colon

    If you love someone it's your business not the whole governments. I think gay people can either be confused sexually or their completely sure their gay since they were born.

  • http://www.facebook.com/brianestoll Brian Stoll

    they aren't imposing it.. just saying they'll withhold aid

  • http://www.facebook.com/InvaderHim Phil Ondusko

    Does Uganda not have bigger problems then gays?

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/OGWVP64IEDHQSB5T4SZRV2FL3Y Matt

    And in the end you get just as stupid as them..

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/OGWVP64IEDHQSB5T4SZRV2FL3Y Matt

    Yes. And they (bigger problems) are precisely the cause of this one here.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/OGWVP64IEDHQSB5T4SZRV2FL3Y Matt

    You are very contradictory, boy.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/OGWVP64IEDHQSB5T4SZRV2FL3Y Matt

    No..just a good joke.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/OGWVP64IEDHQSB5T4SZRV2FL3Y Matt

    Yes it can. Along with much others who can think right.

  • http://twitter.com/TheManiNicole TheManiNicole

    Afghanistan is the worst place to be gay (2012), because they can actually LEGALLY sentence an individual to death just for being openly gay. Then again they kill everybody...

  • http://twitter.com/funklemonde jude arsenault

    have you watched the documentary? a decent person could not possibly have watched it and then made the comment that you just made. it is not a cultural issue,it is a human rights issue and the world is watching and very justified in getting invloved!

  • http://twitter.com/funklemonde jude arsenault

    yes,it's hard to feel sorry for people who are this stupid and wicked.

  • XUSMCVET

    I have been advocating feeding the Christians to ANYTHING that wouldn't vomit them back up again! Never in my life have I literally HATED anyone or anything as much as I DESPISE Christians!

  • XUSMCVET

    Do you not realize your ignorant attitude and the fact that you choose to vocalize you HATE them is what created this problem to begin with?

  • AddNewComment1

    good point? lol? where have you been for the past thirty years when they started chanting this mindless banter? Please come up with something new --- Adam and Steve is so old there has been a movie named after it ...long ago.. get with the program.. if you're gonna be a hate filled bigot and probably racist.. attend a meeting or two and learn the mantras !

  • Mark Casper

    There is a lie in monogamy. Who says we are ONLY to love one other person. Love can be shared, it can be physical, emotional, psychological, and spiritual. Notice how that black guy jumped from sex and equated it to not being able to love? Terrible logic. Who says we can not love many

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/YLCMYJIBZL34GODXW7XCVOUKYI Nathan Stewart

    I really hope you don't feel that way about all Christians. I am a gay Christian and I completely understand where your views are coming form. Sadly the view most people get of Christians are because of people like Pat Robinson,Fred Phelps,David Burton who use scripture and twist it to justify their own ideology,bigotry and hypocrisy and these are what most people are exposed to. True followers apply the first principles of love thy neighbor, not to cast the stones and judge people that don't think and believe the same as you ,but, embrace and learn from our differences as well as show compassion and tolerance for those who are treated unjustly. The people like I mentioned and all of their intolerance,hate,judgemental,bigoted mind set go against everything that Jesus taught. There are many gay and non gay Christians who share the same beliefs as me we have been repressed by these fundamentalist. I love you and I hope this helps some of the distrust and anger you have against Christians. Peace and God Bless bro.

  • Sara tayeb

    I feel sorry for those who die gay and not a muslim believer. Because allah would at least punish you for all your sins and then admit you into heaven if you were gay. But if you are and gay and you are not a true muslim beliver, then you will burn in hell for eternity and i think that is awful loss. Wake up people... noone is BORN gay. I mean the purpose of making male and female is for reproduction. Whats with this gay business now adays. Its dirty, filth and you are fooling noone , allah is watching. fear him for he will punish you for what you do

  • over the edge

    @Sara tayeb
    that sounded intolerant,hateful,homophobic and contained a veiled threat. nice to see what your religion taught you

  • Achems_Razor

    Tsk, Tsk, Sara tayeb, you maketh threats to people, not nice!

    If you hate gays so much, maybe you should come out of the closet, basically people that are not gay, do not have such an adversity to the gays.

  • XUSMCVET

    Nathan,

    I received your response I just haven't had the time to respond (long story). I will get back to you though.

    Lars

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/GJXG3W5YOHUD45ZPAYCGDS7FSY Sharron M

    Look everybody don't want too be gay...ok...So quick trying too force this behavior on the entire world...Africans culture is not and never will be gay. Homosexuality has alway been open among the European race of people...I rather die first then too embrace your Gay ways...Oh and I am African American

  • over the edge

    @Sharron M
    homosexuals are not trying to make you gay. they are not trying to force their behavior onto anybody. but aren't they entitled to express themselves? don't they deserve the same rights and freedoms as others? shouldn't a fellow human being be guaranteed to be treated equal and shouldn't we celebrate our similarities instead of punishing some superficial differences?

  • Brenna MacDonald

    So as an African American you feel qualified to speak for all of African culture? You are not representative of an entire country with very diverse views.

    Also, no one is forcing "gay behaviour" on anyone, the only thing happening here is an attempt to keep the majority (heterosexuals) from shaming and oppressing a minority (LGBTQ etc.). No one is asking you or anyone else to change your sexual orientation.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dave.b.gay Dave B. Gay

    How gross and ignorant. Such an opinion was prevalent in the 50's and 60's towards the rights of blacks in the American South. "Want to be gay" doesn't play into this, as in the color of ones skin, gay is gay and straight is straight. What day did you decide to be heterosexual? As for culture, wrong is wrong, oppression and murder is just that. There are many Muslim African nations that force women to cover their skin when going in public and whose husbands beat their wives without consequence. Do you think that is right??

  • http://twitter.com/sailsud84 Laura De Vito

    It's funny: 50 years ago there was the same attitude towards african americans ... I have heard about white people saying "I rather die first than going on the same bus with african americans".... funny. So funny. Soooooooooooooooooo funny.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Thumbalena Sarah Martin

    I am a gay british female, aged 20 and I would like to have my say.
    I think it is utterly disgusting that your religion teaches you to be so hateful. Saying you would rather die than be gay is pure hate for gay people. No one said you have to be gay, so you wouldn't ever have to die for being gay because being gay is NOT a choice. 'Allah will punish you'.. Allah will not punish me. Allah to me does not exist. How does that feel? You NEED to wake up and smell the morning coffee, people ARE born gay. People do not choose to be gay. I did not choose to be gay. I didn't just wake up one morning and think ~what a nice day to turn gay, tell the people.. And make all the muslim believers angry and hate me~ NO! That is not the way it is, not for anyone who is gay. The fear was put in to you.. You fear Allah, you don't worship 'him.' And as for reproduction - there is more than enough people in the world already; lots of them who are straight and happily get married and reproduce because of choice.. Where as in your religion, most times.. Your husband would be picked for you and you would be married off and that's the end of that. So where is your say in that uh? What if you don't want to marry this man.. ? That wouldn't matter in the slightest would it? Do you fear your parents like you fear Allah? You were conditioned to believe in Allah, you were conditioned to be who you are. Where as we as homosexuals are not! Nobody asks/tells us to do and be what we are. They don't tell us to believe that we are gay.. Because we KNOW that we're gay already. I think that your religion and beliefs is dirty and filth and forced upon you. So there you go. And I do not care in the slightest if you think my comment is hateful towards your religion. I do not hate your religion, I hate that you feel like you should have your say about homosexuals when you actually have no idea. You know nothing but Allah.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Thumbalena Sarah Martin

    Please do shut up.

  • i_love_chocolate

    I am a Christan and I advocate gay people. i am not gay my self but i believe in Christ.This does not make me hate gays.I would like you to know that the outspoken behavior and attitudes of some Christians are not the views of all of us who label our selves Christians.The bible teaches us to love each other and not to judge.I believe you being gay is not a stunt or fake I know its real.i think the bible discourages homosexuality to encourage reproduction.Remember that religions many religions needed to grow and one way to do this is to encourage reproduction.This concept is one that in many groups has been used to grow sects and religions.The bottom line is not all Christians are hateful not all Christians are out to convert you .Areal christian should listen try to help you in your moment of need no matter what your sex color or gender.
    " I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him."
    -Booker .T. Washington

    I am a christian,I have a degree in history and a degree in women studies and gender studies.

  • jaberwokky

    The happiness of homosexual persons does not depend on you or your gods approval.

  • jaberwokky

    Oh look, the bigots came out to play.

  • http://www.facebook.com/enshaquwa.moore EnShaquwa Moore

    I look at this video, and its hard for me to see where this man is hardly being disrespectful to gays. But on the other hand we have this gay guy acting like an arrogant baby. Okay here is the thing I understand both sides because as a child (age of 3) all the way to the age of 20 thought that I was gay, only to be shown the truth about human sexuality. The truth is we in this and many generations throughout history have practiced sexual immorality. In the in of the Old Testament we learn how it all started with Satan and his angels coming forth onto and into the women of Earth in return defiling themselves and the women. You may ask why is this so bad? Well, human and angels are two different species of two different intelligence; example would bestiality. It does not take much research to prove what I say just look up the bibles account of Genesis 6:1-8. Then look greek and roman myths and practically any other religion and you will be surprised by how all of them match with those few verses. And if you are still a sceptic get on youtube and listen to the account of the book of Enoch. It was a book highly respected even past the time of Jesus, but was took from the bible by Constantine. It may surprise you that the account of the book of Enoch is for our generation, and found only 30 years ago to be translated and distributed to us now. But that is for your information only back to what I was saying. When Satan and his angel did what was evil they also in contempt towards God because of his coming judgement of everlasting punishment for them in hell went out to deceive mankind. I.E. sin now in the world, and all sorts of false religions. We are ass backwards nowadays and fuck every and anything, but for your relief things were worse in the older days. We should all stop our fornications because it is not love, but only lust. That goes for Gays and Straights. God may forgive a Gay who is in a loving relationship, but never a Straight who just is out for pleasure.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=553923827 Aleirah Stevens

    I have taken your advice and removed the last sentence to restore it as an informative comment, you were right :)

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/SBU2G6ZIJES64IMDNKEKLEB2NA sean

    Basically from the TV advert and from what I saw is just another excuse for Christian Bashing. Why not show how the imams deal with homosexuality in their community and spread your liberal BS over in those countries?
    Wouldn't that paint Islam and muslims in a bad light and not good for the BBC agenda that appeases the Muslim faith. Or is it because it would result in uproar and rioting leading to deaths at western embassies across the Mid East?
    I think DJ Scott Mills is a coward if he doesn't go to Saudi Arabia, Iran, Afghanistan, Nigeria and Jamaica and speak out about it there too...

  • dave112233

    basically just a backwards people

  • http://www.facebook.com/khahuzo.felix Khahuzo Felix

    This kind of Western Nonsense is not needed in Uganda.

  • P A

    'Given the particulars of Abrahamic dogmas, acceptance of homosexuality as part of nature, thus not subject to choice, leads inexorably to the conclusion that either some fundamental religious precepts are false or that the god is fallible, cruel and unjust, neither of which would be acceptable.'

    This is logically correct. But the insanity is to claim to know human nature. Clearly the Abrahamic dogma is just that, a dogma. The fact is that some of those who feel the dogma is true also feel that it is perfectly ok to instigate hated and violence against their own species.
    How acceptable is that? The instigators are the ones who should be jailed. Homicidal insanity is just that. Instigating it is a crime. The instigators must be removed from circulation. They take advantage of fearful masses and instigate them to crime. That is unacceptable.

  • http://www.facebook.com/wagner.damatta.5 Wagner da Matta

    Boys and girls are constantly bombarded with messages about how to behave like a man, or like a girl their entire life.We live in binary society. I definitely do not believe that to be gay, lesbian is just a matter of choice. Perhaps someone might choose to be hetero because it's by far much easier to live like that, and many people surely chose to live a lie.

  • Bantustani

    By an 'Entire Country', do you mean the USA or Africa?

  • Bantustani

    Go tell this gay crap to Arabs, Russians and Iranians if equality really matters to you people. You can say whatever you like. We have heard the worst that can be said about us. Like it or not, HOMOSEXUALITY WILL NEVER BE ACCEPTED IN AFRICA, THE MOTHERLAND.

  • Lebohang teele

    Actually its already accepted in south africa my part of the motherland

  • Bantustani

    Am sure the whites there played the biggest role in passing the rule. Try it on the blacks. I hear lesbianism doesn't go down well with those brothers down 'ere. From your name, you look like a Kaburu (Boers, we we call them that in KENYA)

  • Alexaundra

    This is absolutely ridiculous. They have this arrogant smuck on the screen representing homosexuals and he comes off as a whore. Look, I speak for all homosexuals, It is not sin to be gay. God indeed made us all the same. Some gay and some straight. It pisses me off that people can't see that we are all the same. I will not be ashamed of my sexuality any longer. Kids are literally killing themselves because they are taught against who they are. This world is a dark place.God gave us ONE job, and it is to love thy neighbor, as ye love thy own self. From what i see, we are all doing the complete opposite. I will not burn in hell because i was born gay, like any other person was born straight. I did not CHOOSE a life of homosexuality but im sure as hell gonna live it. I will be in heaven with Jesus just like the next believer, whether you like it or not. Our job is not to be accepted by this world but to know that we are accepted by God. Anybody who is against me can KISS MY ASS!!! Keep it moving.

  • jaberwokky

    Actually in many areas throughout the African continent homosexuality was not uncommon before the white man came with his religion. So yeah ... you can thank whitey for your shiny proud ignorance.

  • jaberwokky

    Reading through the comments section for this doc is quiet telling on how far we still have to go along evolution road. When it comes to tolerance, understanding, compassion and empathy the religious element can't even be bothered with the pretense anymore. They seem quiet happy to justify their fear and hatred through whichever god and associated books they chose to hide behind.

    Well ladies and gentlemen I come bearing a solution which will rid you of the bile that eats away at your heart day in day out. Yes, fear no more, demons be gone. Praise jebus/allah/spongebob/yaweh/odin/zeus/mazda/einstein/jay-z/etc

    Introducing Rumyodin by Cicero Pharmaceutical Solutions, the little blue wonder pill that's changing the world one monkey at a time.

    Tired of trying to pray the gay away? Sick of asking gods forgiveness every time you secretly suppress an urge to ask your wife to cram a finger in your bunghole at that critical moment? Worry no more. Just listen to what disgraced former pastor Ted Haggard has to say about Rumyodin:

    "I like crystal meths when I'm engaging in a bit of buttseks with male prostitutes. God hates fags. Lol"
    - Ted Haggard.

    Ask your Doctor about Rumyodin today.

  • jaberwokky

    A religious person that happens to be openly gay and is espousing tolerance ... I'm confused. I applaud you sir, religion needs more people of your caliber.

  • Bantustani

    Hehehe. What religion did the cracker come with?? He just came with a modified story of what was already old news here. Christianity had existed here thousands of years b4 the slimy haters came. Am sure my ancestors just got bored with this weird story and decided to get in touch with mother earth. N 'whitey' came n thought they din't know.

  • Alexaundra

    should i be offended? was that your intention? and lets get it straight, never did i say i was religious because i am not. more of the spiritual aspect. i should also ask what you are confused about? your sarcasm interest me.

  • jaberwokky

    Not at all, I certainly didn't mean to offend and if I did I apologize. It's unusual for me to hear someone mention god and gay in the same post and associate them in a positive way ... hence the confusion. No harm meant.

  • jaberwokky

    Wow ... ok.

  • Alexaundra

    none taken but please forgive me. i didnt know you were being literal. everybody goes off of what the bible says and none of them have the decency to ask God what he says. I realized that they have no reason to. none of them can really carry that concern unless they were gay themselves. A book like the bible translated by a man who was a homosexual himself. KJV is said to be the word of God but indeed a lot of it is not.

  • jaberwokky

    And therein lays the major problem with religious discourse in general I think, the lack of empathy, the unwillingness to walk that mile in another mans shoes. I'm far from religious so I might be way off here but to paraphrase from a religious doc I watched on this site some time back ...

    "The central message of the bible boils down to one central message - Do unto others as you would have done unto you - every thing else is just a footnote".

    Peace.

  • Dan Ro

    With all due respect, but African countries which are oppressing gays are not beacons of Democracy or Social Economic Justice. These are countries where poverty levels are some of the worst on earth and where a person can find the worst and most corrupt governments. Such social and economic realities are not the fault of gays, but they are rooted in societies full of greed(foreign and domestic), ignorance and stupidity. So please "Africa" do not try to teach about ethics or morality because you are the least qualified to do so. The Scandinavian countries are the most tolerant towards gays and their enjoy some of the best standards of living of all the first world countries. So, when African countries become the "Shiny cities on the Hill," then you can come and try to lecture the "western world" about ethics and morality.

  • Nadya

    african they born to kill each other that is joke land forget about gay right

  • stedge

    You oversimplify. Poverty and lack of education is not a moral shortcoming. True, they do not justify discrimination of minorities, either; but when you look at the colonial histories of those countries, the argument that Africa alone was responsible for its problems simply does not hold.

  • TruthTeller

    Lecture the western world about ethics? the very people who have slaughtered the environment? who have committed the most vile acts of genocide known on this planet? Who have annihilated whole races in the Americas, Oceania, and crazy acts of barbarity in Africa and Asia. And continue to this day? These western people brought their infected egotistical values and their warped interpretation of religion and philosophy that reinforced this was forced onto the people of the world. and so they suffer and continue to perpetuate the actions of the abuser. Climb down from your high horse