ZOO

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Ratings: 6.36/10 from 69 users.

Storyline

ZOOZoo, a film by The Stranger columnist Charles Mudede and director Robinson Devor, and executive producers Garr Godfrey and Ben Exworthy, is a documentary on the life and death of Kenneth Pinyan (played by Adam T. McLain) a Seattle area man who died of peritonitis due to perforation of the colon after engaging in receptive anal sex with a horse.

The film's public debut was at the Sundance Film Festival in January 2007, where it was one of 16 winners out of 856 candidates, and played at numerous regional festivals in the USA thereafter. Following Sundance, it was also selected as one of the top five American films to be presented at the prestigious Directors Fortnight sidebar at the 2007 Cannes Film Festival.

The film was made with co-operation of the two men who took Pinyan to the hospital, as well as other friends of his, in the attempt to explore the life and death of the man, as well as those who came to the farm near Enumclaw for similar reasons, beyond the public understanding of the media. It does contain explicit material of sexual activities, but only in the view of video footage shown on a small television screen. (Excerpt from en.wikipedia.org)

Warning: You may find some of the details in this video disturbing.

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572 Comments / User Reviews

  1. Jam

    just viewed "ZOO" and the only thing i can think of saying is what the f***?

  2. Jesus

    I frown on this shit.

  3. Rip

    Sicko's my god. Go circle jerk, bunch of perverts. Thats just gross. And he says 'there were some nut cases in that jail, with a stange mentality" ???????????? Is he serious???????Euthenize the sick pervert. At the least I hope he has to register as a sex offender, hard to understand the mentality of thses ppl.

  4. Thece

    That story is utterly sick. I don't care how 'artful' they try to present it - that's just pervert and sick. And also sad.

    BTW, what's the 'documentary' value of this?? Could there be any at all??

  5. Vlatko

    He's already dead Rip. His colon was raptured and he died.

  6. Monika

    I really dont like how these perverts were trying to normalize their disgusting animal rape. Saying they love their animals more than normal people and that sex is just a small part of it. I LOVE animals. Im very much for animal rights, and have just adored animals my entire life, but Ive never in my life had any kind of urge to have sex with them. Just because an animal comes up and tries to mount you, you dont just say "Oh yes please!" and have sex with it, you tell it to get down and move away. And the part about the mini horse just coming up under the stallion and giving it a blow job! Oh my god! Clearly that little horse was taught that behavior.

    Ugh the whole thing just disgusts and angers me. I feel the same about it as I do about Pedophiles. Its just wrong and they are hurting innocent creatures.

    I will forever have the Mr Hands video seared into my brain after seeing it back when this was all made public.

    The only people I feel bad for in this film are the families that have to now deal with knowing their loved ones were involved in such disgusting sex acts. Especially "Mr Hands'" son. That poor kid. I cant believe the harassment he must have faced after that. School is tough enough as it is, but throw in having your dad killed from having sex with a horse, and on camera, with the video ALL over the internet, god that is going to be insane.

  7. Mike

    The cinematography is beautifully shot in contract to a very disturbing taboo as I see it. But to whoever that is into this sort of taboo then it was tastefully done. It was well executed for a strange subject that is beyond my comprehension. I'm not inspired to research or watch anymore on this taboo. And I'm not sure I could not tell anybody that I saw this type of documentary without being judge myself.

  8. NA

    Wouaaah! Such beautiful art direction for a wierdy subject...

  9. jazzmo

    That man,horse stuff is horrible!!!
    Sick people!!!
    I would like to see a woman doing a mini horse though. Or maybe a woman trying to take a great danes knot!oh yes!!!!

  10. KennyL

    I wonder how many of you who said 'ooooh that's disgusting' eat meat or wear leather. I love bestiality because it forces us to see that animal enslavement for our pleasure is either morally repulsive or it's not, but if it is, anyone who's enjoyed a juicy chicken breast or steak has committed an act more morally egregious than those who have sex with animals.

  11. Tim

    It was interesting to hear how zoophiles see what they do as being perfectly harmless and natural, but they're just deluding themselves if they think that they have some kind of intimate connection with those animals. The fact is, they have sex with animals. That's just one of those things you don't do.

    And to KennyL: I guess that makes the majority of us a bunch of sick monsters. Oh well.

  12. Eric

    Two criticisms of this film:

    1) unclarity: its was often very hard to figure out who was speaking or being portrayed; it was often hard or impossible to know what they were talking about. A sentence will come out of the blue about a "he" or and an "it" with no context before or after to clarify who the "he" or what the "it" was.

    2) It never really touches on some of the really obvious questions. For one thing whole physical aspect of it is mind boggling to me. Maybe some people are anatomically more, um, expansive than others, but this seems extreme and there must have been some working up to a point where an act like this was even possible let alone not extremely painful. It's no like he stepped out into a field and it happened by surprise the first time, there had to have been a period working towards it physically, and I would think, mentally in order to get past the taboo. What was going on there that either motivated that kind of effort, or was just a gradual slide, how did that happen?

    And the sexuality aspect of it was completely neglected. There was all this emphasis on the connection with the animal.Well it seems to me you can have that connection, even a very physical one, without crossing the very difficult physical and mental boundaries of bestiality. And the fact that they had all of these films of it was clearly about getting off on it. But that was never spoken of.

    I think omitting those very pertinent issues made for a very distorted depiction.

  13. hmm

    I remember watching a similar docco done by the BBC... or channel 4.
    It was more insightful. I found this docco kinda slow.. but yeah... disturbing topic.

  14. Tim

    I agree with Eric. This doc really avoided the physical/sexual aspect of it, which is the center of the problem of bestiality. There are so many questions I would have wanted to ask these guys. Like, what kinds of animals, other than horses, are they having sex with? Is there an age of consent for animals? Are animals more capable of consent than ten-year-old humans, who are probably more intelligent but still off limits? I wish this doc had gone deeper into the psychology of these zoophiles.

  15. boom

    "I even talked to people serving in Iraq" Great! So I got some horse f***** defending my freedom.

  16. boom

    Yeah these people are rotting in hell it's not about "who gets to decide what is moral?" No dude you f*** horses! Helpless creatures that can't decide on their own!! Would you go molest a child? No you wouldn't then why would you abuse a horse?

  17. Graham

    Holy jesus couldn't get past 10 minutes of this... incredibly boring. The presentation was just terrible and over the top artsy.

  18. Mtech

    I thought that the doc was very artful for a taboo subject. Many common misconceptions about zoophilia were not made clear though. As Eric and Tim stated,they avoided the mental/physical/sexual aspect of zoophilia. There are some things they touch on, but not many; and non zoos may not have payed attention to them. The line "...Without consent, it wouldn't have even happened..." tells the exact truth.
    For those who don't know, there is a differance between beastiality and zoophilia. Zoos form an emotional attachment and relationship with the animal and are more interested in wheather or not the animal is happy, whereas beastys are only in it for their pleasure; beastiality is the one that comes to most peoples minds when they think of this subject.
    Do some research and you will see. Don't talk about a subject when you have no idea what you're talking about.

  19. Its Shockeriffic

    And it was a hit at the Take-It-In-The-Cannes film festival! It's the famous Mr. Ed. Bend over Wilbur!

    I LOVE the fruitcake with the "differance between beastiality and zoophilia" theory. Geee, I'm sure glad we got THAT one straightened from a man with some experience in that matter! That changes nothing. =8^O

  20. johnny

    very weird subject. good imagery, however worst background music and video editing i have watched. very hard to watch in more than one way.

  21. Madison

    "Something about this seems kind of wrong" You think?!

  22. Speedolini

    You "Ooooohh it's SO gross" whiners are bereft of compassion and critical thinking skills. Your comments are completely unintelligent. As for the doc, I too found it too convoluted in it's imagery to understand/follow with ease, but again, for such a touchy subject, this makes perfect sense. I feel like the imagery really captured the world these guys are forced to live in because their tastes are so... out of the ballpark.

  23. rolo

    these people are sick puppies. maybe they should have jeffrey dammer and that german cannibal fry their wienner and plow them in the rear end

  24. The Arch Angel

    Like in the days of Sodom and Gomorah...so shall in the last days these things occur. And they who have committed these vile acts shall perish in the lake of fire at the coming of the Son of Man!!!

  25. louiseiiid

    OMG! I can't believe how sypathetically these perpetrators have been treated in this bizarre doc.. Those poor creatures.

    Imagine if the subject was little children and their 'loving' abusers. Many children love their abusers (in a kind of Stockholm Syndrome way)and aquiesce and even enjoy the stimulation (in an unavoidable biological reflex way)THAT DOES NOT make it any less of an abuse! Wow! I am so LIVID.

    F*** off please with this mamal to mamal smooze.

    I feel deeply nauseated - as much by the presentation as the act itself.

  26. Omnivore

    @KennyL

    Shut up, you anthropomorphizing preacher of false morals. Animals are inferior species, and we are predators directly or indirectly. It is part of our being humans. That is how natural we are. Even for those, that constantly and wrongly, pretend to take animal modes of operations for inspiring human morality (plainly idiotic), animals eat animals of different species and I don't think they're having sex with other species. So to KennyL, stating that those that eat animal meat as performing something morally worse than those having "sex" with animals is plain f****** wrong (pun intended) and the most downright stupid thing I have read in a while.

    I thought the description of this documentary was just plain idiotic if not perverse, but KennyL beats them. He is offensive to human rationality.

  27. Filmluvr

    I wouldn't call this a true Documentary. It succeeds as an art film, a kind of a re-enactment, the way some literary "memoirs' are now being criticized for actually being works of fiction.

    That said, to call this subject controversial is an understatement. In the eyes of the law zoophiles are animal rapists and I was glad to see Washington institute a law making sexual acts with animals a Class C felony. Watching this film about such a taboo subject and knowing that there are more of these disturbed folks out in the world is making me want to protect animals all the more, the way parents feel about protecting children from pedophiles. I was utterly sickened when the ranch hand at the end of the film dared to call himself a Buddhist. Funny, I was taught that Buddhists do not harm living beings. Zoophiles, and all cowards who secretly watch and get off on these acts on the Internet, are not Buddhists at all, and violate Buddhist ethics. It was that particular scene at the end that made me realize that zoophilia should not to be accepted into American culture as an Alternative sexual lifestyle. They are very selfish, very sick folks, not deserving of a classification. Love of all sentient beings comes with the burden of responsibility to care and protect, and the love that these folks claim they have is clearly one-sided and done with only their consent. You can also substitute the word 'pedophile' for zoophile and to me it has the same sickening aftertaste.

  28. hatethesinlovethesinner

    Don't any of you understand that these people are in bondage of sin? This stuff is in the Bible, the Living Word of God. Instead of judging them, why not consider loving them and praying for them to be set free from the grip of satan's hold on their lives? Maybe someone should try looking in Webster's dictionary for the meaning of the word Compassion. Christ died for these people. "Judge lest not ye be judged."

  29. Em

    @Omnivore

    There is no need to get so aggressive with your reply. You think animals are inferior, however KennyL thinks they are equal. It is only a difference in opinion so settle down and show some respect.

    @hatethesinlovethesinner

    Perhaps some of the people who are posting here don't believe in God? Not everyone does.

  30. Zoo World Free Cheats

    Very nice information and well laid out site with some great Zoo World Cheats info - just what i needed! Thanks xox

  31. katerpult

    @hatethesinlovethesinner
    i cant believe that on everything you watch here somebody comes up with the bible...

    about the film.
    well, he wanted it deep - he got it deep. nuf said

  32. manhoreselover

    i think they should have arrested the horse!! that man is a hero

  33. LifeObserver

    David read my comment at the top. What the heck is wrong with you. F-ing an animal mister logical is wrong because of health risks involved with doing an animal. Animal's have viruses that to us human are deadly. So it's morally wrong unless you want to see people die of new viruses. AIDs for example is found in monkeys. "Fun Fact" :)

    Look another thing, I guess if someone can find this act acceptable no wonder anal sex seems like a good idea. Let's stick our whatever up someone's rear "and call it macaroni". The bacteria found in one's rear end is deadly but yet again I guess no one cares. Morally wrong for humans(animal not at fault), Health hazard that isn't necessary to take. Go get a "Real Doll" shaped like a animal or something to satisfy you awkward sexual fantasies. (whomever this applies too)

  34. Yavanna

    There is something seriously wrong when a country doesn't have a law against bestiality. These people should be banned from any future contact with animals.

    David: if you really need 1 "REAL" reason why it is morally wrong then you might need to take a long look at yourself and maybe consult a dictionary. Because it is perverted in the very definition of the word. It is deeply unnatural and is an extremely repugnant wrong to do.

    To the others that compare the morales of bestiality to those of homosexuality are really missing the point. I`m not gay myself but what two consenting adults do to each other for recreation, so long as no harm is done is an entirely different matter.

    I`m not referring to bible type nonsense morality here. We are all born with a conscience and the sense of right and wrong.

  35. david

    "Because it is perverted in the very definition of the word. It is deeply unnatural and is an extremely repugnant wrong to do. "
    - You can use the same arguement against homosexuality, so why exactly is that not wrong then.
    - In nature, interspecies sex is rare but it DOES happen.

    "so long as no harm is done is an entirely different matter"
    -no harm is done to the animal do why is that not ok?

    I still think some of the most disgusting shit i have ever heard but thats my personsl opinion, i can't see any logical and reasonable reason to condem the people who do it.
    Once sgsin, if s relegious person is against it i understand and respect it but to anyone else there really is no reason to be sgainst it.

    People used the same arguemnts to say that blacks and whites should not be together or gay people so keep that in mind.

  36. costakidd

    For a doc about ppl having sex with animals you would never be able to tell if they didn't mention the word bestiality in the first 5 min. I was hoping to see a freak show and be grossed out, maybe understand a diff sub culture, but it was quite boring and extremely vague. So ppl have sex with animals, ppl also eat other ppl, and have sex with trees. The price of free will I suppose.

  37. enlightenedmind

    life observer.. funny to see you here.. you thuroughly enjoy dabbeling in areas that are totally against things you passionately believe in... could you possibly be filling desires within yourself with sinnful documentaries? if not, why present sinful images to your holy mind? is that not a sin?

  38. Yavanna

    David

    Interesting spin you have put on my words. You say that the same argument can be used against homosexuals. What rubbish. You have deliberately excluded my point about there being consent involved. An animal cannot consent. All through humanity's history there have been homosexuals however. That is a recognised fact and evidence throughout classical literature and accounts. Homosexuality is only regarded as unnatural by "modern" religions that have made it such a taboo. And again I wasn't answering your question from a religious morale perspective.

    I never mentioned interspecies sex either. Anyone who has ever had rabbits or dogs for instance can attest that that happens.

    How do you know no harm is being done to the animal? You've conversely decided that all bestiality has to involve animals with large receptive orifices. What about chickens or pigs or whatever else these sickos indulge their fetishes on? Where else do these people decide to stick their d****? Do they use condoms when they s**** their animals? I somehow doubt it. How do you know that these animals aren't being mentally damaged by these acts? Some animals are extremely intelligent; pigs would be a good example.

    I can only imagine you are playing devil's advocate here. Playing a word game. To think otherwise is to believe you cannot properly understand all I said.

  39. david

    People have been hsving sex with animals since forever. If people are hurting the animal or having sex with s small animal that it hurts physically then i think that is morally wrong. As for consent, an animal can consent. A 700 pound horse will not be having sex with a tiny human if it does not want too. Also why is it ok to kill and eat the animal but wrong to have sex with it? Im sure the animal would rather live. The horse was f-ing that guy... it didn't have too it liked it im sure the animals probably ejaculate and everything. If a dog is humping your leg and u let it f you i think that is consent.
    Now.... this topic is starting to make me feel sick lol.

  40. david

    Animal sex is not an issue i am passionate about defendeing lol. I just think it is interesting to analyse where we get our moralls and why we define certain things as evil and other things as totally normal. It is an interesting topic for understanding human morality.

  41. Yavanna

    There are nicer things you can indulge your love of word play on David. I`d rather take this subject seriously. The fact that we have the power over subordinate creatures shouldn't be treated as a joke and the discussion as entertainment.

    Anyways sh1t doc. Boring discussion.

  42. Linda

    I have never seen anything like this before what a bunch of sicko's. The poor family's left behind with the knowlage of how thier loved one died do'es anyone know what sentence the gang got for this sick perversion, I hope it was a long time and the nerve to say he was in jail with sick people I wouldhave locked the whole bunch ofthem up and through the key away

  43. Black beauty

    Whattt!!! All Liz Taylor did was ride me! Son-of-a-.....!

  44. Hardy

    Stupid "doc.".

    But is there anybody out there that asked "Why?" for once, instead of "Eww, so gross"?

  45. Jari

    A well-done documentary.
    I have a question though: why is it 'immoral' to have sex with an animal but it is 'moral' to kill & eat it?
    I do not eat or f**k animals. I naturally find them both repulsive.

  46. Yavanna

    Jari read the comments huh?

  47. allan

    Yavanna

    while I was reading all these comment sI also came to the conclusion that these same agruements can be made against homosexuality. As far as consent is concerned, how does one determine if an animal is consenting to it or not. I would like to point out, that most dog owners hear have probably expierenced their dog trying to hump them.

    I know this sounds like rubbish, its ment to, because every agrument here is pretty much rubbish.

    If you wanna screw animals go for it. You obviously have some kind of crossed wires in your brain. Just be sure that this will probably never be accepted as normal in modern or future societies.

  48. Yavanna

    Allan I`ve been reading your comments on other documentaries and I`ve kept shtoomn because you just seem a bit silly and naive. Besides which, other people have slapped you down and illuminated your very basic and flawed word play and logic.

    But as you have directed your last comment at me let me reply. I think you are just here for sport. To say contradictory and silly things to get a rise out of people that have given some serious thought to the topics.

    "every agrument here is pretty much rubbish."

    How so? Most of the comments here talk about the documentary in different ways. From how well it was made artistically, to the morality of bestiality. What wisdom and life experience do you have to justify calling everyone else's opinions rubbish? Or are you as I believe just posting on documentaries related to sensitive issues just to get some attention for yourself.

    For instance you compare the morality of bestiality to homosexuality. This is a ridiculously crass notion and if you had read all the comments I gave my views on that argument already.

    "As far as consent is concerned, how does one determine if an animal is consenting to it or not. I would like to point out, that most dog owners hear have probably expierenced their dog trying to hump them."

    Well when a dog tries to hump my leg. I tell it NO. I push it away. If it persists it gets increasingly harder punishment until it learns that I do not 'consent' to it's actions. If I were the sort of freak to enjoy having my leg humped I would just take it. That is what consent is. A choice given outwardly or implied to accept actions towards oneself. An animal cannot do either.

  49. allan

    Yavanna

    Although you have attacked me personally I dont take it personal. I have also been reading your comments and I think that your one of the brightest people on these forums. You pretty much have me pegged. I am not really interested in getting a certain veiw across, but rather take the other side of the general consenus because I think that all the veiw points must be considered to get to the truth. So what I'm really trying to do is just to get people to think, even if I look like a fool in the process. I noticed that rather then deeply considering an opposite point of veiw people tend to just hate the person saying it, and discredit them personally. But discrediting a person doesn't discredit their idea's.

  50. Yavanna

    Allan

    Well I wasn't attacking you, just some of your comments, but as you say if you are playing devil's advocate you have got to expect that. If you champion weak arguments people will assume you are too. On a topic as sensitive as this - as I said to David above it's not the best venue for word play.

    Also as you said elsewhere English isn't your first language and your spelling doesn't always do you justice. Please don't take offence but I always advise people to get a spell checker or a browser with one built in. I use Google Chrome. Firefox is good too and you can plug in a SC for that. It's a minor point but I see people attacking spelling all over the place here and it's such an easy thing to address. I'm guessing you are French Canadian?

    Thanks for the compliments.

  51. allan

    Yavanna,

    It may interest you to know that upon further research I've discovered that the reason a dog humps your leg is not because it is horny, but rather to show it's dominace. Like anal sex in prisons, the dog affectively wants to make you his bitch.

  52. Jari

    ur justification to eat an animal can be used exactly the same way by a horse f**ker. you eat it, others f**k it. sounds like same s**t to me.

  53. Yavanna

    Jari you have watched American Pie too often.Don't F*** your food buddy - it's unhygienic.

    Allan you go to too many weird websites. I will bow in deference to your greater experience of anal sex in prison.

  54. allan

    Jari

    Are you trying to make meat eaters feel bad or animals funkers feel good?

  55. jari

    so it would be OK for one to wear a condom and f**k a donkey?

    re:american pie, i watched it once when i was little.

  56. Jari

    @ allan, i am not trying to make anyone feel anything. i'm trying to understand their logic of thinking. apart from that, i can not care less about what people do in their own privacy. each to his own.

  57. allan

    @Jari

    Eating meat doesn't require much of an explaination. People eat meat without sitting down and thinking, "Why am I eating this animal, whats the logic behind this act?". It seems to me that it's vegatarians and vegans which require an explantion. Well it doesn't require one, but they insist on telling us about it.

  58. Jari

    @ allan,
    i don't try to explain anything without being asked to do so. For me, whenever there is food on my plate, i wanna know where it is coming from. If it is meat, I know that the animal had been murdered and butchered before it was nicely put on the table. i think that deserves a bit of thinking if you care for the animal.
    Still, this is just MY right way of thinking. Not saying everyone should think this way. Again, each to his own.

  59. allan

    Murder is a legal term for those convicted of killing, its not a term meant for killing in general. If that was the case then animals themselves would be the large group of mass murder's out their. Just a tidbit of information for you. And I agree, to each his own. I wasn't implying that YOU insist on explaining your stance on meat eating. Just in general most vegetarians and vegans(especially vegans!) do.

  60. Jari

    ok allan, this is my last response to you.
    #1. Killing an animal is a murder to me. I don't care if it is not written in the constitution or not or on what the majority has put up as a standard for killing.
    #2. you said "in general most vegetarians and vegans(especially vegans!) do". That is the most preposterous thing I've ever heard lately. I say that because ALL of the vegans I've met in my life so far(and I know many) do not push their views on others nor do they try to explain anything to anyone without being asked to so so. Sorry, but I guess you met the very tiny minority of vegans who are militants. And those do not represent us.

    I'm done, dude.

  61. allan

    Just one more thing.

    Their is a clear definition of murder. It is not an abstract idea or term. So you saying it "is murder to me" is like me saying "hockey is baseball to me". I am only telling you this to make you a teeny tiny bit more knowledgable. It's not meant as a personal attack and shouldn't be taken as one. Sorry.

  62. allan

    @Jari

    "Sorry, but I guess you met the very tiny minority of vegans who are militants. And those do not represent us."

    It may also interest you to know that I may be joining you as a vegan soon.

  63. larry

    LIfe Observer
    "Having sex with animals is like having sex with a prostitute. They may not judge you but there will be consequences afterwards."

    It's interesting you think prostitutes are like dumb animals who don't judge. Trust me they are judging you.

  64. Holier than Thou

    Aside from being extremely unsanitary and dangerous, beastiality is wrong because it involves a party that is mentally and emotionally incapable of giving consent. Normal horses do NOT behave like that--walking up to a human and mounting them for sex, no matter HOW long you "stand in one place."

    They were trained to do these things, that much is clear. What isn't as clear is how they were trained: were they beaten? Deprived of food? Forced into a solitary confinement situation? Horses are very independent and physically forceful...one can imagine that some seriously harsh "training" was involved. And that's why it's wrong.

    Children who are molested--and even infants--will show a physical response to it and may even find it enjoyable. Does that make it right? Is that their way of "consenting"? If children are unable to consent, then animals certainly aren't, as they can't even speak/comprehend language in the way we can. They may show physical signs of arousal, but that is NOT to be taken as consent, which requires emotional and mental comprehension far beyond that of an animal or child.

  65. O

    Its funny how people frown upon humans having sex with animals.But if you study history you will see humans have always had sex with animals,people need to stop judging.

  66. Epicurus

    i hope O is just kidding.

    sex with animals is wrong because it is an issue of consent, just like with children. even if the child or animal appears to be consenting, the adult is the responsible one with a position of authority and is taking advantage of that situation making it statutory rape.

  67. T-Dog

    OOOOUUUUCCCCHHHH!!!! Have you seen a horse? Sick.

  68. LR

    The real people involved in this story. Their voices sounds so creepy to me. Even the voice of the woman that was given the horses for free sometime after one of the horses killed a mentally disturbed male. It was stated that this man was having sex regularly with this one particular horse and he also had a cast made of the horse's penis. His own brother found the horse dildo hidden when he was cleaning out his things, after his death. I won't try to understand what sick chemicals are in the brains of all the people that lust after animals.

    From the unseen but heard video footage of the man being anally penetrated by the huge baseball sized horse penis; it sounds like someone was beating him to death. Sounds like he was in horrible pain and I'm sure he was. Having something that long and thick pushing itself in and out of his intestines over and over; we don't know how many times he allowed this to happen to himself. And the guy that started it all, who admited often that he was having sexual relations with the horses as well. You can hear him telling bits of his story throughout this film. He enlisted other mentally disturbed guys like himself to come on the farm where he lived as long as he took care of the horses,it seems. He and his sick buddies would find other sick guys online, invite them to the farm, get them slightly numb from all the alcohol, help them in this contraption where the horses were also trapped/strapped into to pound the insides/anally of all these stupid/yet willing guys. All of it was recorded as well.

    he guy with the wife & little boy, that was obsessed with this horse it seems, died from the continuous intestinal pounding from his favorite horse. Animals tend to bite and kick as well. I'm sure that horse abused that disturbed male in more ways than all the brutal/fatal penetrating. Sad, sad, sad but many gay men & some women does this often with dildos the size of baseball bats, with human fist & arms and so much more.

  69. peter

    What? It's just a bunch of guys coming together and f****** animals, nothing wrong with that, every American god given right. Personally I am trying to cat back myself.

    just kidding this is truly wrong!

  70. Danny

    I really don't understand the MASSIVE and just instant hate for them. I also don't see how this is harming the animals in any conceivable way. I'm not an animal person and have never had any pets but I honestly don't care if people want to fuck them. I'm very interested however in finding out why people have an intense hatred for this idea.

    Also
    "Aside from being extremely unsanitary and dangerous, bestiality is wrong because it involves a party that is mentally and emotionally incapable of giving consent. Normal horses do NOT behave like that–walking up to a human and mounting them for sex, no matter HOW long you “stand in one place.”".

    Have you ever had a friend's dog hump your leg for no reason? I rest my case.

  71. bird

    omg this is horriable and so gross the strangest thing and all bad i couldnt make pass the fourth part i cant this so bad

  72. Mary

    Take the 'humans' out of this equation and there won't be a problem, yes dogs are persistant and some need to be monitered around small kids and physically removed at times.Trying to normalize this type of behaviour and get it accepted by the population is what pedophiles do, I'm saddened that many people think this is all ok, that screwing horses is not that out there. These men are looking for a new thrill so molesting horses does it for them as holierthanthou puts it perfectly, these horses were trained to do this and obviously held in bondage to do as otherwise the horse would bolt.I could imagine a horse would get pretty angry at being put in this position not turned on as some may think. Can't feel any compassion for the man who got ruptured and died, what did he expect?These men are basically animal rapists, what gives them the right to do this to another creature?The documentary concentrates on avoidance of the real issues of animal rape kind of making the whole subject even more elusive and possibly for some people enticing.

  73. brad

    WOW I cannot believe what I just saw!! WTF? Intercourse with other species IS NOT COOL. There is absolutely NO justification for having sex with animals. These people are sick and need to learn some self restraint.

  74. Unbeliever

    Life Observer, as long as the animal is on top, well then maybe it isn't hurt. But as to ATD Animal transmitted Diseases, well that is no joke. How do you think we got Syphllis?
    All of this bothered me. But mostly the sister-in-Law at the end, trying to rationalize the behavior.
    So did the freaks who do it, but of course they would. And none probably were proscuted at all. They stated it was legal at that time in Washington State.
    Now we know how famous Blue Laws came about.

  75. vampire taco

    @Unbeliever finally someone else besides lifeobserver said where the aids came from yep animals

  76. Lou

    Kind of boring but interesting at the same time. Just visually slow I guess. Great if you like piano being played very slowly...

    Also, please don't f*** animals.

  77. scooter

    Anyone ever been swimming with dolphins? I have heard they try to f*** their trainers and sometimes the people they swim with.

  78. ROFLCAKES

    LOL should I even watch this?

  79. Chara321

    I couldn't bring myself to watch this at all but after reading the comments and the arguements? I can't believe some people would even make a film of this and then it makes it to the top five at a film festival! WTF! It is wrong whether you look at it from an evolutionary perspective, a religious one,a pscyhological perspective, a sociological perspective. Someone made a good point, that this is a good way to contract new diseases that could spread through the human population and that is good enough reason to make it legal. I guess if people ever made it legal, people would deserve to be wiped off the face of the earth.

    The mere fact that someone could engage in this behavior says that he has major mental, character, personality, spiritual, social, and relationship problems deeper than words can explain!!! Sick,, gross, unnatural, masochisitc, sadistic, sociopathic...and what did it get the guy??? Exactly what he should have expected.

  80. Chara321

    To make it illegal...(Typo up there!!) not legal!!!!

  81. Lily

    I'm torn on the issue...

    I DO NOT agree with people who constantly say "Eww", "Gross", "Sick", etc. It's childish.

    Grow up. People do it, not A LOT of people... But some people do it, and always have. Prohibition does not work. Avoiding the issue does not work.

    Lily

  82. jasmine

    i thought this film was both sickening and extremely boring at the same time. who ever directed this spent way too much time focusing on landscapes and dragged out way too many "artistic" shots. it took forever for them to get to the point and i feel like i wasted my life on this. the end.

  83. LisaP

    There are all kinds of mindset in this world and I love documentary's like this one that give a bit of insight into a life I could not imagine, without being tasteless.
    The subject is sordid, but this film is not.

  84. david

    I think most people who say it is wrong to have sex with animals are saying it from an emotional argument and are not being logical. I think it is wrong because of the BIBLE but if you are not religious you have no logical reason to think it is wrong.

  85. Freethinker

    @david

    Actually, there's plenty bestiality in the bible itself... Reread that sh*t sometime, it's nuts.

  86. Cynthia

    IT'S ANIMAL ABUSE,PERVERSITY OF THE WORST KIND AND EVEN ANIMALS NO IT'S NOT RIGHT TO COPULATE WITH HUMANS, COME ON EVEN CALLING THIS TASTEFULLY DONE IS A PERVERSITY .....YOUR TASTES MUST BE ALL IN YOUR MOUTHS.I AM SURPRISED THEY WOULD EVEN MAKE THIS INTO A "DOCTUMENTARY" IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT TO CALL IT.ALSO TERRIBLE LIGHTING AND SHAME ON YOU DOCUMENTARY CHANNEL!!!!!!

  87. living in hell

    thats it..we are living in hell on this earth..these people should have bullets put in there heads.immediately upon being caught..and let the horses cows dogs mice etc..watch..after all these animals go through that aint gonna be nothin..take them out back and put them out of there misery.A.S.A.P.

  88. Jigs

    As a life-long zoo I have a few comments on this film.
    It was quite well done, very different and unique indeed from other documentary styles.
    The group of so called "zoos" are not in my book real zoos, real zoos in my book don't treat their animals like sex toys, nor do they share their partners with other people and film them to put up degrading porn.
    Real zoos have more respect for their animal partners than those lazy deadbeat losers did.
    They sat around all day drinking beer, watching porn, and then one says "lets go out and pester the animals" and they all go out to the barn. NO, that is not "zoo" that is acting like a bestialist- one who uses animals like disposable sex toys.
    Then they return to the house and had to wash this black CRUD off their hands and arms in the sink, and the voice over mentioned all the animals used the barn for a toilet and that it wasn't cleaned much. Well HELLO! they had time to sit around all day guzzling BEER and watching porn on line, but they didn't have time to get JOBS or clean the barn??

    Seems Ken was the only one who had a real job, with Boeing, the rest were just losers including James Tait, a truck driver who was arrested. He then wound up in Tennesse with no job, living with another "zoo." He was arrested again along with the other guy for bestiality with horses after someone saw them in the backyard doing a pony.

    The whole crowd of those losers in that case were appalling to me and in my opinion don't have the right to call themselves ZOOS.

    Someone claimed here that AIDS came from animals and that diseases can hop over to humans, honey, do some research, some PRIMATES who are very close genetically to humans, who can get many of the SAME illnesses we do like influenza, common colds, happen to have a Simian variant of a form of AIDS. The many THEORIES about HIV/AIDS origins include bush meat hunters getting contaminated BLOOD on them and in cuts on their hands from butchering the meat. Also down in Africa the sharing and re-using of hypodermic needles was common due to the cost for them.
    There are many other theories, no one of them truly explains HIV/AIDS' origins, but it is a falacy that it was started by having SEX with a monkey. A monkey penis is very thin, a human couldn't even penetrate a female, the size differences are too great.

    The only real diseases one can get from an animal like a dog, the most common animal involved, would be brucellosis (doggy VD) (easy to test for with a simple blood test) I've never seen it in any dog despite being very active for over 40 years.
    Urinary tract infection,(UTI) if your human partner had a discharge you wouldnt have sex right? why would you think a zoo would if their partner had a UTI and a discharge? Smart thing is get some antibiotics and clear it up. I've seen UTI's a few times over 40 years.

    Intestinal parasites, hookworms, roundworms, well just owning a dog can expose those to you, it's not unique to zoo activities, smart people give their dogs Hartguard plus once a month to control heartworms from mosquitos, but also has ivermectin to get rid of intestinal parasites, ALL dog owners should have their dogs on this.

    Dogs do not carry ANY of the now 25 human STD's, they do not carry HIV, common colds, influenza etc

    Honey, yer worried about catching something from a dog?
    An estimated 3% or so of people have had sex with an animal at some point, this is not a new thing!
    If you want to worry about diseases, try this on for size and worry:

    CDC estimates that about 36,000 people died of seasonal flu-related causes each year, on average, during the 1990s in the United States.

    The common cold virus is transmitted mainly from contact with the saliva or nasal secretions of an infected person, either directly, when a healthy person breathes in the virus-laden aerosol generated when an infected person coughs or sneezes, or by touching a contaminated surface and then touching the nose or eyes.

    Influenza spreads around the world in seasonal epidemics, resulting in the deaths of between 250,000 and 500,000 people every year.

    Children may have six to ten colds a year (and up to 12 colds a year for school children).

    Upper respiratory tract infections are the most common infectious diseases among adults, who have two to four respiratory infections annually.

    Half a million people DIE a year globally from influenza, a disease easily spread from person to person just breathign the same filthy air or touching a doorknob, and you are worried about sex with a dog??

    Looks to me like humans are the ones to stay away from as hotbed reservoirs of 25 STD's and numerous potentially FATAL diseases.

  89. Jigs

    Quoting

    Filmluvr

    "That said, to call this subject controversial is an understatement. In the eyes of the law zoophiles are animal rapists and I was glad to see Washington institute a law making sexual acts with animals a Class C felony."

    It doesn't matter what the law says, most of this takes place in private behind closed doors. Back in the 50's the law said a black person could not marry a white person, it was considered a form of bestiality, the law changes over time, the laws are largely political bullsh*t motivated anyway.

  90. Jigs

    Quoting
    LR
    "It was stated that this man was having sex regularly with this one particular horse and he also had a cast made of the horse’s penis."

    You can't make a cast of a live animal penis like that, it was just a look-alike replica.

    "I won’t try to understand what sick chemicals are in the brains of all the people that lust after animals."

    Thanks, I won't try to understand what sick chemicals are in the brains of all the people who bring multiple children into an already way overpopulated planet with dwindling resources.

    "From the unseen but heard video footage of the man being anally penetrated by the huge baseball sized horse penis; it sounds like someone was beating him to death. Sounds like he was in horrible pain and I’m sure he was."

    LOL and you really thing a porn flick's sound bites and all are 100% authentic? what isn't dubbed in later is acted in to begin with, it was part of the effects they wanted in the film.

  91. Jigs

    "Having something that long and thick pushing itself in and out of his intestines over and over; we don’t know how many times he allowed this to happen to himself."

    He had done it many times, it wasn't the cause of his death, he built up to that size over a period of time. What led to his death that night was the fact that he and his "helper" were drunk, in a dark barn next door to where they lived, with a flash light and camcorder.
    The "helper" was busy filming when he should have been helping, as a result the stallion suddenly pushed forward a bit too far and that ruptured Ken's colon.
    Had the"helper" done his part, and had they used a bolster to prevent too deep penetration, the accident would not have happened.

    As it turned out, the "helper" and others panicked because they had hundreds of illegal porn videos that they shortly afterwards tried to dispose of in a field, they waited HOURS to take the guy to the E.R. and by the time Tait drove him to the hospital and dumped him off, he had bled out and it was already too late.

    In my opinion they should have been charged with manslaughter or failing to render timely aid, you'd be charged with one of those if you saw a car wreck and failed to give proper aid.

  92. Jigs

    Going back to my earlier statment, those losers were and are not in my book "zoos" they are bestialists and driven by the porn and conquests, outconquesting one another.

    Real zoos don't go out and "pester" the animals, real zoos don't keep their animals in FILTH, barns with crap in it that's knee deep and full of flies, and real zoos don't have bestiality parties.

  93. Jigs

    Real zoos have a one on one loving relationship with their animal, which can include sex, they don't share animals with other people or degrade and disrespect them by filming porn rags of them to put on the internet!

    Of course Washington is now the scene of yet another so called "zoophile" arrest, of someone I also would not call a real zoo, just check out Google for doug spink and find another James "enumclaw animal screw" Tait type is in custody.

  94. Justin

    Slow documentary. As mentioned by others - often does not identify who is speaking or about what.
    Tremendously slow pace until you can almost forget what anything was about or where it is going.
    It is a creepy documentary sympathetic to these sick f**ks who discuss this as if victims of societies 'moral majority' and the ignorance about their perfectly normal and maybe even superior 'lifestyle'.
    The way this is presented by creeps 'as if' they were something comparable to gays seeking marriage rights. It rarely or just briefly describes what they actually do or what sex acts were going on but rather how they were just normal people being 'picked-on' and misjudged and hurt for their 'love'.
    A better documentary would be about how people like this were put to death in the good ole days.

  95. Rain

    Okay, these guys give off creepy vibes, they have some serious issues with understanding what "love" and "respect" means, and they probably saw things in their relationship with horses that were not and would never possibly be there.
    Still, some of you may try to exercise a bit more of reasoning and human compassion. A man is a man, even if he does terrible things. Besides, I don't think this can be compared in severity to pedophilia, and you cannot really make a parallel with rape that goes beyond the non-consensuality of the act.

  96. Jigs

    @hmm

    "I remember watching a similar docco done by the BBC… or channel 4.
    It was more insightful. I found this docco kinda slow.."

    ch 4 was the one done largely on that fat loser in Missouri who lived in a dumpy trailer with his mare, the one from the Springer show fame "I married a horse." He's been dead a number of years from hepatitus acquired from a tattoo a friend gave him.

    He wrote a long book about himself and his IV drug use, failed marriage, and his parading his mare around town and telling people she was his new "wife."
    As a real zoophile I was appalled by his disgusting public displays and actions, dragging his mare to Chicago to film the Springer show, and telling everyone that missouri has no law against bestiality (it does now BECAUSE of him!)
    He boasted in his book and in forums how he had sex with his mare outside in full view of a helicopter full of FBI agents and they could do nothing as there was no law on the books.
    I had to wonder if he didn't do all that to get a law in place on purpose.

    Springer used him for the shock value, and he used Springer to promote his book and his agenda. Shock the audience he did, by French kissing his mare on stage much to the disgust of everyone in the audience whose faces you could see.
    It was a disgusting display and truly not representative of REAL zoophiles who take an animal as their partner. He used his animals to garner attention and fame, as a weapon against his ex wife, women and society. To say he was an embarassment to zoophiles would be an understatement.

  97. Jigs

    Thanks "head shaking", well said, I do try.

  98. Sammy

    Well, I really enjoyed turning that off. I remember the first time I ever connected to the internet. What pops up? All kinds of porn pictures of women having sex with a horses and god knows what else. Any-who... my point is that culture is out there. We know about it, but we DO NOT WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT!
    There are some things I want to keep in the back of my mind forever and ever.
    This film happens to be one of them!
    So what was the point of this documentary anyway?
    Don't f**k a horse or you'll get perforation of the colon and die of peritonitis?
    I mean give me a break.

  99. Jigs

    Well Sammy, then what did you click on the LINK for??was not the description enough to tell you what it's about?
    He did not die of peritonitis,an infection, he bled to death.

    The point of the documentary, it describes the fact that there are people who have romantic and sexual attractions to animals, but of course, these dolts and losers depicted in the film are not ethical zoophiles, they are wannabe's and bestialists. True ethical zoophiles don't do what they did any more than a man shares his wife with other people for gang bang sessions.

  100. Hayley

    Beautiful documentary, but wow I feel slightly ill.

  101. Apple

    ...so I guess an elephant would be out of the question. ???

  102. Heman

    ...whenkenneth's a$$ started bleeding...I wonder if the horse thought.."Dang, he's a virgin."

  103. Ike

    How can they put intimacy into cruelty?? Killing or torturing the animal is animal cruelty.
    Beautifully made documentary though................and atheists should make laws.....being a man of God is morally being one sided or with a very closed mind.
    Personally I've no appeal for bestiality.......but laws should'nt be based on religious fundamentals......
    and for the people who r into bestiality,go ahead and do whatever u like.....just truly love the animal.
    Another thing I noticed was these people were very racially tolerant....unlike the 'legal' religious fanatic rednecks who believe that a book controls their life..........

  104. Ike

    @living in hell
    Isn't controlling an animal's life by deciding what it should eat, when it should sleep, when to have sex, when to wander around, etc, etc, etc truly 'animal cruelty' ??

  105. Doggiejigs

    @ike no, it's called a symbiotic relationship, the dog receives many things in return, so does the owner. The dog receives companionship, excellent food, medical care and vaccinations against diseases, protection from predators, shelter, fresh water, affection and attention, and with a zoo the animal's sexual needs are satisfied as well.

    The owners receives affection and companionship, protection, and in the case of a zoo, sexual needs are taken care of as well. There's additional benefits for both, this is just a short list.

    Out in the wild most animals never live half the years they do in domestic situations, especially animals who are killed by diseases or preditors. Excepting livestock of course, but the wild is no picnic, there's constant terror, just compare a wild rabbit with a house rabbit, the wild one lives in a constant state of stress and terror, ready to run at the slightest movement or noise.

    The only true objection to sex with animals is one of religion and one’s own moral code based on that religion, the animal abuse, and consent arguments don’t fly at all except in the case where the animal is harmed on purpose for the sake of causing pain or death.
    Consentual zoo-sex within the context of a relationship is not the same, the animal is not harmed or injured, so where there is no pain, harm or injury the abuse argument is dead in the water as being nothing less than a red herring or strawman argument, especially when as someone pointed out here, that amazingly consent is not required when it suits *US*, for example hamburgers, leather shoes, milk production, wool production, factory farming.

    I have to laugh when someone uses that abuse argument while they obliviously stuff their face with a McDonald’s double whopper, not caring how that burger was produced or how many of those patties are thrown in the trash if not sold within a set number of minutes on the warming shelf.

  106. Ike

    @Doggiejigs
    This is an extremely debatable topic & like a coin having 2 sides, there are also 2 sides to this...I completely agree with you but there are other factors which also have to be kept in mind. Whatever, humans will laways have a winning hand over animals because of more intelligence & will always try to justify their causes till one day some aliens come to earth who will be more intelligent & advanced than us humans & will 'use' us in their planets or some animal (dog or chimp or something) experience drastic evolution & their brain size gets bigger & become more intelligent than humans and take us into their care.....then only we will understand.
    BTW.....I've been involved in animal cruelty cauzz I've been a keen hunter since......birth. My dad used to take me with his friends then. We hunt wild goat, deer, partridges, ducks, geese, rabbits, etc, etc. He's tried to justify hunting by telling me that "we only hunt what we can eat."

  107. Doggiejigs

    @Ike
    Yes, it is, glad we agree on many aspects. In the end, the most viable means with which to confirm the pleasure and consent issues would be a peer-reviewed study in a laboratory setting using brain scanning of dogs. We have already mapped the human brain with scans and have a fairly good idea today what areas of the brain control what part of the body, which area responds to various stimuli such as pleasure, pain, or controls motor actions etc.

    Much of that corresponds to the brain of other mammals which would be mapped out in a similar way.
    If a dog was hooked up to scanning devices in such a study, and the results of various stimuli observed and recorded, it would be entirely possible to see which areas of the brain reacts to pain (not abusing the dog in the lab, let's say just a pinch or a vaccination) , fear, and then sexual stimulation/pleasure.
    It would be possible to determine to a good degree the different areas concerned with fear/pain from those that are stimulated by pleasure, the dog then could be "recorded" in scans mating with another dog, and then subsequently engaging in sex with a person and the results recorded and compared.

    I totally disapprove of hunting, there's enough terror and bloodshed in the wild for wild animals as it is without adding unnecessary terror and bloodshed with annual "sporting" events.
    I find it ironic how the US Fish and Game "saves" deer and other animals in a hard snowy winter with food drops and such, only to allow them to be fattened back up and killed by hunters later, pretty self-serving if you ask me.
    I can't fathom the mind of people who shoot small birds for meat, good grief, how much meat is on a tiny bird or small animal!
    It is like the horrid dog meat trade overseas, they brutally kill these fairly small dogs for meat, and by the time the bone is discarded, and the skin/fur, and parts not consumed, there’s not much more than a couple handfulls of meat, it’s insane. A dog is worth far more as a dog than a couple of handfulls of meat

    I don’t eat meat or hunt.

    Out of sequence due to the length and a posting error, Ike, to continue,

    If for example we found mating with another dog stimulated one area of the brain and then being sexually stimulated by a person also activates that very same area but not the fear/pain areas, that would tell us a whole lot.
    As I mentioned earlier, I don’t consider those clowns in the Enumclaw horse case that inspired this film to be real, ethical zoos. I know one was arrested again, another one is also involved in activities I don’t consider ethical as a zoo, among other things.

    These guys in the film are bad examples of zoos in every way, unfortunately there seems to be a fair number just like them, fence-hopping por.n mongers who sell out animals for consumption of commercial porn, sharing their animals with other people, or disrespecting their animals and all animals by their activities

  108. Rebecca

    God this kind of s@#$ pisses me off! Normal people work their whole lives to help animals, and these sick people go and rape them. I wish these people would go to jail and never get out!

  109. Doggiejigs

    @Rebecca, well miss, it looks like you have a delemma then, you sound a lot like a rape victim who feels the need to "lash out," but your problem is you are lashing out at the *wrong* people!
    After obviously not reading, seeing this film and the WIkipedia article on bestiality with it's references about *CONSENT,* you offhandedly dismissing the zoo's efforts to stop animal abuse and cruelty, and our statements and efforts condemning puppy mills, vivisection, cosmetic surgery, abuse in the livestock and circus industries, abandonment, chained dogs, pitbull fighting and more.
    Now that's the way to go through life, just dismiss everything you find "distasteful" and make false accusations against people that you can't back up, and know absolutely nothing about.
    Funny thing is, it wasn't that long ago people like had the same feelings and thoughts about black people and native American indians, who were treated worse than animals.
    Knowing that nothing will change your mind no matter what I say, i can say I don't really give a krap what you think about zoophilia, and I can state there is absolutely nothing you can do about it, so you might do either one of two things, move on and stew in your own juices, or research and learn something with an open mind.
    Either path you choose will not make one bit of difference to me, what takes place in private behind closed doors can't be legislated against, stopped, or changed, so accept that as fact.

  110. Jay

    SICK, SICK, SICK!!! I have a deep love and respect for animals. I own 5 cats who are my babies, I take care of their needs before my own. I used to volunteer at a wildlife shelter. I have never in my life thought about having sex with an animal!! It is WRONG to have sex with any creature that can't consent to it (child, animal, the mentally handicapped).

    Period. End of story. For those who might say the horse "consented" by mounting the man, that is just instinct not consent. It doesn't matter whether the horse would have "enjoyed" it or not. Example: a 13 year old girl might desire to have sex with a 25 year old man. She may even enjoy it. However, the law (and society) recognizes she does not have the life experience to consent to such an act and can't fully understand the consequences, therefore it is a crime and the 25 year old man should know better.

    As far as our having dominion over animals, that does not mean we have the right to abuse them. No, I don't eat animals and haven't for many years. I feel I shouldn't consume animal flesh since I couldn't kill an animal and I hate hypocrisy! However, I have a great respect for hunters as they tend to have great respect for the animals. What is done on factory farms is horrific!!! You know what's really sad about this is the fact the even animals know better than to have sex outside their own species!!!

  111. Jay

    @Doggiejigs You're going to have a hard time convincing anybody who doesn't participate in this filthy behavior that it's "normal". The points you use to justify what you do sound a whole lot like a pedophile. Also, your comment, "Funny thing is, it wasn’t that long ago people like had the same feelings and thoughts about black people and native American indians, who were treated worse than animals." is irrelevant. A person has no choice regarding what race they're born, you don't have to have sex with an animal. It's not the same as being homosexual either as that's done by "consenting" adults. As far as your suggestion that they do studies to determine an animals response to sex with a human...yeah... that's just what we need to waste money on, not to mention the trauma to the animal. I'm a very sexually open minded woman, however, pedophilia and beastiality are two things I hope peoples minds stay VERY closed too! It was disgusting 2000+ years ago when shepherds first screwed their sheep and it's disgusting now! For God's sake, go find a human to screw!

  112. Doggiejigs

    Jay, go read the wikipedia article and references on the "consent" issues, you are dead wrong on that, I can state that categorically with 100% certainty, dogs certainly do consent, and object, and they can show both very easily. An dog or animal is not a child and is not a handicapped person, how moronic it is when people constantly bring those two completely irrelevant things up in this context.

    " Example: a 13 year old girl might desire to have sex with a 25 year old man. She "

    Totally irrelevant and does not in any way apply, a dog is not a child and a child is not a dog, but I guess you don't know the difference between a 13 year old girl who could get pregnant or an STD and ruin her life, and a poodle, so this is lost on you.

    "As far as our having dominion over animals, that does not mean we have the right to abuse them. No, I don’t eat animals and haven’t for many years. "

    You are claiming "abuse" but can't back it up with facts, real abuse causes symptoms that are easy to see in a dog, the dog becomes aggressive or withdraws and is fearful, you won't see that in an ethical zoo's animals because there is no abuse, period, end.

    "you know what’s really sad about this is the fact the even animals know better than to have sex outside their own species!!!"

    Really? I'll bet you never even bothered to research your claim and back it up with facts, you cant do it. On the other hand, I and many others have witnessed numerous instances, and it's documented as well, of not only homosexual contact between animals, but inter-species sexual attempts as well.
    Did you see the youtube clip taken at a zoo of the monkey who picked up a very large bullfrog and inserted his p.enis in the frog's mouth and was happily humping away? What about the pair of male donkeys who took turns mounting each other anally and had full erections and the whole 9 yards?
    The goat trying to mate the dog? the cat trying to mate that chicken? oh dear, there's hundreds like those out there as well as documentation that has been published proving it happens.

  113. Doggiejigs

    @Doggiejigs You’re going to have a hard time convincing anybody who doesn’t participate in this filthy behavior that it’s “normal”. The points you use to justify what you do sound a whole lot like a pedophile. "

    Jay, I don't care to convince anyone it's normal or not, normal is a relative term and not applicable. There's 6 billion people on earth, most of them have sex, there's 6 billion versions of "normal" out there.
    I don't care what pedophiles claim or say about what they do, they have nothing to do with zoosex and it's not even remotely similar, you are grasping at straws and that's the best you can come up with and so far you aren't doing very well there.

    " A person has no choice regarding what race they’re born, you don’t have to have sex with an animal. It’s not the same as being homosexual either as that’s done by “consenting” adults."

    I was referring to evolving attitudes and changing social mores, that society condemned black-white marriages as being like bestiality, and homosexuality as being abnormal, a mental illness, and against "nature." I was pointing out that all of that changed in short order, and now black-white marriages are ho-hum, and homosexuals are no longer given electro-shock "treatment" to "cure" them of their "mental illness."

    "As far as your suggestion that they do studies to determine an animals response to sex with a human…yeah… that’s just what we need to waste money on, not to mention the trauma to the animal."

    That's the only way to get an affirmative peer reviewed answer, and you are grasping at straws again and assuming they money would come from the Govt, what if it was from donations and grants. You are also assuming "trauma" but last time I checked, when breeders collect stud dogs for A.I. the dog experiences pleasure, so what you are implying now is all A.I. and semen collections are abuse, and cause trauma, but yet again, you can't back that up with facts, only conjecture and false claims.

    " I’m a very sexually open minded woman, however, pedophilia and beastiality are two things I hope peoples minds stay VERY closed too! It was disgusting 2000+ years ago when shepherds first screwed their sheep and it’s disgusting now!

    Bestiality goes back much further than 2000 years, there's cave drawings from ancient time, there's more in the ruins of Pompei and on ancient Greek vases proving it, man had relations with every kind of animal around, including deer .

    " For God’s sake, go find a human to screw!"

    Why would I want to do that? sure let me just wander the street and pick up some stray woman and screw her, yeah, I'm sure that bodes well for women- suggesting a man just go out and "find a woman to screw", lovely, just lovely, women's rights set back 50 years there for sure.

  114. Doggiejigs

    @Jay

    ” I’m a very sexually open minded woman, however, pedophilia and beastiality are two things I "

    You can't even properly spell "bestiality" so that much shows me you hadn't even bothered reading anything about it to educate yourself to the facts.

  115. DP

    Jigs i agree with you and wanted to add, there is much that the whole of society doesn't understand about Zoophilia. Most act on what I condsider is a programed response. They won't go research it, because they will find out that maybe they were in error.

    I love how those opposed to Zoophilia as a lifestyle always play "The Dumb Animal and Consent cards." its so programmed.

    Animals are either "dumb" and flesh zombies or they are sentient and can decide for themselves.
    A sentient animal can decide what interactions it wants, while a dumb one dosn't care. The humane society has this thing about calling animals dumb but then acting as though they are sentient at the same time.

    The biggest error people make is that by passing laws they can somehow contain peoples actions. A case in point is the old sodomy laws, directed at Gays to stem the tide of homosexuality from spreading. LOL. Well, they been repealed.

    So, laws against zoophilia or bestiality are not going to stop people from doing it but will punish those who in reality are not ethical zoos. Animal crewlty laws are ALLREADY in place. so why single out Zoophiles? Moral issue thats why. Zoophiles practice this in their own homes and barns or other private areas. As long as an animal is not hurt, or a person injured, i see nothing wrong with letting mamals, do as they will.

    Put the real animal abusers in jail. but lets not lump everyone in the same catagory and judge it automaticly wrong because we ourselves would never have sex with an animal.

  116. Randy

    Even Anton LeVay, the pope of the Satanic Church and author of the "Satanic Bible" said,

    "All sex is acceptable and good, except with children or animals. For they can not CONSENT!"

    If even we Satanists are more morally superior to the rest of the world... I don't know...

    DO NOT HAVE INTER-SPECIES SEXUAL RELATIONS!

    As a cannible and brain eater, I still get chills thinking about this stuff.

  117. Doggiejigs

    Absolutely right DP, either animals are sentient and can make their own choices, or they are animated lumps of tissue, in which case it wouldn't matter. Let us not forget the Xtian theology specifies and claims that animals have no souls in the first place, putting aside that mentality which has caused horrific abuse and mass slaughter of animals, if they had no souls they are just animated lumps then.
    You can't have it both ways.

    Admitting animals are sentient is tantamount to admitting they CAN make their own choices and decide what they want and don't want.
    Oh yes, they like to play the "what if it was a 13 year old CHILD, handicapped woman or mentally ill person?" trump card too.
    Like this clod Jay who still doesn't know the difference between a 13 year old girl and an adult male poodle, those who make those silly arguments also can't seem to make the distinction between a child and a poodle and they play on emotions, not logic and science.

    Laws do not matter, since almost all zoo-sex takes place in private behind closed doors and no one knows, not even the other half of a married couple with children.
    Those caught raping a dog or other animal who wind up in the news are not ethical zoosexuals in a bonded relationship with their animal(s), they are bestialists who use animals like sx toys.
    Yes, see, IF there really was abuse going on, existing animal abuse laws already in place would address those, but since there is no actual abuse, no injuries of any kind, they CANT use abuse laws because they'd lose in a court of law. So the powers that be decide to let the church and religion control people's sx lives as they did in the 1500's, and they come up with the modern Xtian version of Leviticus in regards to foisting their beliefs off on the rest of us on this matter.
    As the church can no longer execute people, this is the best they can do, jail them, but in most cases they still KILL the animals just like their book demands!

    It's so clear the motivations of the laws are not protecting animals and are more about foisting their religious beliefs onto the rest of society, this is even more confirmed if you read the actual laws in some states, where "animal" is defined and is specified as either "living or DEAD"
    Obviously a dead animal can't be abused, but is included in that just the same!

    @brain eater "cannible" (sp) Randy, grow up little boy, you are full of bs, even if he said what only you claim, he is reading the same tired rhetoric propaganda the Xtians put out.

  118. Jay

    @Doggiejigs - There are certain things that do not require a law for humans to know they are wrong, I'm not even suggesting we have a law regarding animal sex. As you stated current animal abuse laws (which aren't enforced nearly enough) should cover it, and if there is no obvious physical damage to the animal it would be hard to prove. That doesn't make it right. Just as the thought of having sex with a sibling or parent or a dead person (and I'm sure they would argue nobody "got hurt") would make the majority of people cringe, so does the thought of sex with an animal. Nobody needs to tell me those things are wrong, nature has made sure we recognize that automatically, let's call it the "Eww" factor. Unfortunately some people are born without a conscience or the ability to feel shame. As far as my example of the 13 yr old girl (which I'm aware is not a poodle you arrogant ass!) the point is both the 13 yr old girl and the poodle are beings, that as adult humans, we wield power over. Taking advantage of that is a horrible betrayal. I would venture a guess that most people who practice this have violent, anti-social tendencies and DO physically abuse animals. I doubt most of them are looking at their dogs with romance on their minds and thinking, "How beautiful, I want to make love to my dog!" Also, you certainly can't use history as a marker for what should be acceptable, as I'm sure you are aware, pedophilia (along with many other disturbing things we don't find acceptable today) was once openly practiced too. In fact let me use one of your own argument against you, slavery. I'm sure many owners thought it a symbiotic relationship, "He's just a dumb slave. He can't read or write or speak english. I feed him, clothe him, give him shelter and satisfy his sexual needs. He hasn't protested. He hasn't run away. Surely, that implies consent!" Get my point? For the record I'm not religious at all, you need not be religious to find this behavior repulsive as, thankfully, most people do. The bottom line is you CAN'T prove the animal consented or that they enjoyed it. I apologize for my misspelling of bestiality which so clearly offended you. This is not my area of expertise,(thank goodness) and I have no intention of devoting any additional time to understanding it. For the record, I was disappointed with the doc as I thought it might give me some insight as to why on earth anybody would want to do this or how on earth a person could look at a horse and think, "Yeah, I want a piece of that!"

  119. Doggiejigs

    @jay
    "There are certain things that do not require a law for humans to know they are wrong,"

    "Know" they are wrong according to what exactly? there is no right or wrong in nature, "right" and "wrong" are 100% human culture inventions and vary according to the era, culture and people. If you were born on a desert island into a tribe of head hunters and cannibals, you would be eating human meat and wearing animal skin clothes, you would feel you were normal and if someone showed you a video of downtown Los Angeles and people in business suits driving metal machines you'd they were crazy and abnormal.

    If you were born into an eskimo tribe in the Arctic not long ago, you would think swapping mates, eating rotting seal blubber, never taking a bath, and ice-snow everywhere were all normal and natural, if someone said an old book told them they were wrong, and if you took them for a trip to Hawaii, they would thing you are nuts and that they entered a foreign planet, having never seen a tree before.

    If there is no provable abuse or injury then it doesn't matter if there is sx involved, that is only a religious dogma and culture frowned on thing, culture frowned on exactly because of religion.

    And what exactly is wrong with an ADULT man and woman who happened to be cousins or brother-sister having a consentual relationship? again, it's strictly due to religious condemnation that it's frowned on, that's all, religious dogma is more sinister that way, having infiltrated every aspect of human existence with it's negative garbage.

    "Nobody needs to tell me those things are wrong, nature has made sure we recognize that automatically, let’s call it the “Eww” factor"

    You might think no one told you, but you were told just the same, by examples mainly- your parents, photos, ads, movies, all of that brainwashed you into the mindset of a family being one man, one woman, 2.5 kids, a dog and a little white picket fence, the American dream!
    When you see ads, movies, TV shows etc you almost always see, one man (dad) one woman (soccer mom) 2 kids, almost always one girl and one boy, and a family dog very often too.
    You were brainwashed early and by mom, dad and others washing their hands after petting the dog and telling you to do the same because the dog is "dirty." Even some of the religious dogma says dogs are "UNCLEAN," you were conditioned from birth that some things are "dirty" or cause "diseases," thus you were brainwashed to thinking dogs and animals=odors=dirty=diseases, and that my fine Jay is where your "eww" factor was learned, you were not born that way!

    Eskimos till the white man took over, almost never bathed, they certainly didnt brush their teeth, and they swopped mates and did a lot of things when the white explorers came around, including stealing food from them and objects without a second thought.
    That is the REAL human as born, it's not till culture and religious dogma were forced on them which changed that.

    "As far as my example of the 13 yr old girl (which I’m aware is not a poodle you arrogant ***!) the point is both the 13 yr old girl and the poodle are beings, that as adult humans, we wield power over. Taking advantage of that is a horrible betrayal."

    Oh I see, so now you are shifting to an advantage of "power" but conveniently forget that dogs have teeth and can kill a man, and in fact every year dogs DO kill people, including that woman killed and shreaded by the 2 big dogs in California owned by the lawyers, the fact that this happens is proof dogs can defend themselves and go on the offensive and stop what they object to.
    You claim lack of consent, "betrayal" and wielding power, but also forget that everything we do to or with animals is NEVER with their consent, not ever! everything that is done to them is with no consent of any kind, they are FORCED to bend to human will, be it a circus lion in a cage, a dog trained to attack, a horse to allow riders, or a dog to walk on a leash without pulling- under penalty of having their throat yanked by a metal chain. Let us not forget the brutal animal farming conglomerates and factory farming which much like the Nazi death camps always results in the DEATH of the animal.

    Somehow, we never seem to need their consent for any of that, but AMAZINGLY- wait for this- when S.EX is involved, all of a sudden the table flips over, the deck of cards fall to the floor, the lights go on bright and we humans must get CONSENT that some claim is impossible to obtain, go figure that one by golly!

    "I would venture a guess that most people who practice this have violent, anti-social tendencies and DO physically abuse animals. I doubt most of them are looking at their dogs with romance on their minds and thinking, “How beautiful, I want to make love to my dog!”

    Well you would be venturing so far off the edge of the ship you'd fall into the sea of objections and outrage, and drown, I can clearly see you have not even read Dr Hani Miletski's published book about the over 100 zoosexuals she personally interviewed and studied, and met many of them and their animals. She not only concludes it likely to be harmless, but remarked the animals were well taken care of, and well adjusted and happy.
    Like anything, there are withdrawn, sullen, angry zoo's just like there are heterosexuals or anyone else in a group of people, but you paint zoo's with a stereotype that is totally off base JUST because we happen to enjoy a deeper relationship that happens to include sx.

    "Also, you certainly can’t use history as a marker for what should be acceptable,"

    Sure I can, explain why I could not, history as they say tends to repeat itself.

    "as I’m sure you are aware, pedophilia (along with many other disturbing things we don’t find acceptable today) was once openly practiced too"

    That is right, the Greeks practiced pedophilia, and in fact, bestiality, the pompeans 'worshipped" the p.enis and had many objects depicting that shape as a fertility icon, they like the Greeks also had many objects depicting bestiality. What was acceptable then, and what is not acceptable today does not matter, in some states a person can marry at age 14 with parental okay, when you marry sx is assumed, thus, that 14 year old could marry and have sx legally in that state, but the next state over it would be a CRIME, how insane.
    Does that 14 year old somehow differ mentally or any other way by living on the East side of a state border v/s the West side of it? Of course not,
    obviously if the state felt that 14 year old could get married at 14, then it should be that way for every state.

    “He’s just a dumb slave. He can’t read or write or speak english. I feed him, clothe him, give him shelter and satisfy his sexual needs. He hasn’t protested. He hasn’t run away. Surely, that implies consent!” Get my point?

    No, because every one of those slaves were chained, beaten, threatened, worked long arduous hours with little rest, overworked, and many were killed, many also lived in horrible conditions that would be called animal abuse. Slaves could not run away either, they would have been hunted down and tortured and beaten to death or wish they had been dead, and they knew it.

    "For the record I’m not religious at all, you need not be religious to find this behavior repulsive as, "

    Your parents probably were, and they taught you- animals were unclean, dirty and to wash your hands, don't let the dog's tongue/saliva get on you without washing it off right away, disease, germs! GERMS! ACKKK!!!!!!! MOM!!! ROVER SLIMED ME!!!

    "The bottom line is you CAN’T prove the animal consented or that they enjoyed it."

    I was hoping you might come back with that tired one, there are many essays on exactly that, proving it now, maybe some does not apply to cows or pigs, and I know nothing about those, but it certainly applies to dogs who are very open about their feelings and have a myriad of ways to display it, you just have to learn very basic canine body language, which any competent dog trainer knows, and which most dog owners usually can learn pretty quickly by observation.

    You on the other hand simply cannot show there is abuse or lack of enjoyment without parroting the BS propaganda put out there by the religious right, or rabid animal rights types.
    Like I said, I have 40+ years experience with many dogs, I know what I see, I know how they act and react, I didn't just fall off the turnip truck yesterday, I would be considered an expert on this subject without question.

    " I was disappointed with the doc as"

    I was disappointed with it because it makes all of the rest of us look like dead-beat idiots with no skills, jobs, porn hounds who booze it up and then go out and "pester the animals" as a group in a filthy barn with manure that is knee high because they were too dam lazy to clean it.
    As I said earlier, those are not ethical, real zoosexuals they are bestialists and many of us frown on them and distanced ourselves from them, but then this doc comes out and paints all of us like those beer guzzling porn hound LOSERS in the film.

    " I thought it might give me some insight as to why on earth anybody would want to do this or how on earth a person could look at a horse and think, “Yeah, I want a piece of that!”

    Animals are very visually sexy looking to a zoo, we look at sexy animals the same way men gawk at pretty girls, to answer that question you'd have to explore the mental and physical reasons why a man even finds a woman's shape and "chest" either sexy or attractive, or stimulating, if you find the answer to that then you'd have the answer as to why an animal could be seen the same way.

  120. Doggiejigs

    @jay
    "There are certain things that do not require a law for humans to know they are wrong,"

    "Know" they are wrong according to what exactly? there is no right or wrong in nature, "right" and "wrong" are 100% human culture inventions and vary according to the era, culture and people. If you were born on a desert island into a tribe of head hunters and cannibals, you would be eating human meat and wearing animal skin clothes, you would feel you were normal and if someone showed you a video of downtown Los Angeles and people in business suits driving metal machines you'd they were crazy and abnormal.

    If you were born into an eskimo tribe in the Arctic not long ago, you would think swapping mates, eating rotting seal blubber, never taking a bath, and ice-snow everywhere were all normal and natural, if someone said an old book told them they were wrong, and if you took them for a trip to Hawaii, they would thing you are nuts and that they entered a foreign planet, having never seen a tree before.

    If there is no provable abuse or injury then it doesn't matter if there is sx involved, that is only a religious dogma and culture frowned on thing, culture frowned on exactly because of religion.

    And what exactly is wrong with an ADULT man and woman who happened to be cousins or brother-sister having a consentual relationship? again, it's strictly due to religious condemnation that it's frowned on, that's all, religious dogma is more sinister that way, having infiltrated every aspect of human existence with it's negative garbage.

    "Nobody needs to tell me those things are wrong, nature has made sure we recognize that automatically, let’s call it the “Eww” factor"

    You might think no one told you, but you were told just the same, by examples mainly- your parents, photos, ads, movies, all of that brainwashed you into the mindset of a family being one man, one woman, 2.5 kids, a dog and a little white picket fence, the American dream!
    When you see ads, movies, TV shows etc you almost always see, one man (dad) one woman (soccer mom) 2 kids, almost always one girl and one boy, and a family dog very often too.
    You were brainwashed early and by mom, dad and others washing their hands after petting the dog and telling you to do the same because the dog is "dirty." Even some of the religious dogma says dogs are "UNCLEAN," you were conditioned from birth that some things are "dirty" or cause "diseases," thus you were brainwashed to thinking dogs and animals=odors=dirty=diseases, and that my fine Jay is where your "eww" factor was learned, you were not born that way!

    Eskimos till the white man took over, almost never bathed, they certainly didnt brush their teeth, and they swopped mates and did a lot of things when the white explorers came around, including stealing food from them and objects without a second thought.
    That is the REAL human as born, it's not till culture and religious dogma were forced on them which changed that.

    "As far as my example of the 13 yr old girl (which I’m aware is not a poodle ) the point is both the 13 yr old girl and the poodle are beings, that as adult humans, we wield power over. Taking advantage of that is a horrible betrayal."

    Oh I see, so now you are shifting to an advantage of "power" but conveniently forget that dogs have teeth and can kill a man, and in fact every year dogs DO kill people, including that woman killed and shreaded by the 2 big dogs in California owned by the lawyers, the fact that this happens is proof dogs can defend themselves and go on the offensive and stop what they object to.

    You claim lack of consent, "betrayal" and wielding power, but also forget that everything we do to or with animals is NEVER with their consent, not ever! everything that is done to them is with no consent of any kind, they are FORCED to bend to human will, be it a circus lion in a cage, a dog trained to attack, a horse to allow riders, or a dog to walk on a leash without pulling- under penalty of having their throat yanked by a metal chain. Let us not forget the brutal animal farming conglomerates and factory farming which much like the Nazi death camps always results in the DEATH of the animal.

    Somehow, we never seem to need their consent for any of that, but AMAZINGLY- wait for this- when S.EX is involved, all of a sudden the table flips over, the deck of cards fall to the floor, the lights go on bright and we humans must get CONSENT that some claim is impossible to obtain, go figure that one by golly!

    "I would venture a guess that most people who practice this have violent, anti-social tendencies and DO physically abuse animals. I doubt most of them are looking at their dogs with romance on their minds and th”

    Well you would be venturing so far off the edge of the ship you'd fall into the sea of objections and outrage, and drown, I can clearly see you have not even read Dr Hani Miletski's published book about the over 100 zoosexuals she personally interviewed and studied, and met many of them and their animals. She not only concludes it likely to be harmless, but remarked the animals were well taken care of, and well adjusted and happy.
    Like anything, there are withdrawn, sullen, angry zoo's just like there are heterosexuals or anyone else in a group of people, but you paint zoo's with a stereotype that is totally off base JUST because we happen to enjoy a deeper relationship that happens to include sx.

    "Also, you certainly can’t use history as a marker for what should be acceptable,"

    Sure I can, explain why I could not, history as they say tends to repeat itself.

    "as I’m sure you are aware, pedo (along with many other disturbing things we don’t find acceptable today) was once openly practiced too"

    That is right, the Greeks practiced pedo, and in fact, b.estiality, the pompeans 'worshipped" the p.enis and had many objects depicting that shape as a fertility icon, they like the Greeks also had many objects depicting b.estiality. What was acceptable then, and what is not acceptable today does not matter, in some states a person can marry at age 14 with parental okay, when you marry sx is assumed, thus, that 14 year old could marry and have sx legally in that state, but the next state over it would be a CRIME, how insane.
    Does that 14 year old somehow differ mentally or any other way by living on the East side of a state border v/s the West side of it? Of course not,
    obviously if the state felt that 14 year old could get married at 14, then it should be that way for every state.

    “He’s just a dumb slave. He can’t read or write or speak english. I feed him, clothe him, give him shelter and satisfy his s.exual needs. He hasn’t protested. He hasn’t run away. Surely, that implies consent!” Get my point?

    No, because every one of those slaves were chained, beaten, threatened, worked long arduous hours with little rest, overworked, and many were killed, many also lived in horrible conditions that would be called animal abuse. Slaves could not run away either, they would have been hunted down and tortured and beaten to death or wish they had been dead, and they knew it.

    "For the record I’m not religious at all, you need not be religious to find this behavior repulsive as, "

    Your parents probably were, and they taught you- animals were unclean, dirty and to wash your hands, don't let the dog's tongue/saliva get on you without washing it off right away, disease, germs! GERMS! ACKKK!!!!!!! MOM!!! ROVER SLIMED ME!!!

    "The bottom line is you CAN’T prove the animal consented or that they enjoyed it."

    I was hoping you might come back with that tired one, there are many essays on exactly that, proving it now, maybe some does not apply to cows or pigs, and I know nothing about those, but it certainly applies to dogs who are very open about their feelings and have a myriad of ways to display it, you just have to learn very basic canine body language, which any competent dog trainer knows, and which most dog owners usually can learn pretty quickly by observation.

    You on the other hand simply cannot show there is abuse or lack of enjoyment without parroting the BS propaganda put out there by the religious right, or rabid animal rights types.
    Like I said, I have 40+ years experience with many dogs, I know what I see, I know how they act and react, I didn't just fall off the turnip truck yesterday, I would be considered an expert on this subject without question.

    " I was disappointed with the doc as"

    I was disappointed with it because it makes all of the rest of us look like dead-beat fools with no skills, jobs, p.orn hounds who booze it up and then go out and "pester the animals" as a group in a filthy barn with manure that is knee high because they were too dam lazy to clean it.
    As I said earlier, those are not ethical, real zoosexuals they are bestialists and many of us frown on them and distanced ourselves from them, but then this doc comes out and paints all of us like those beer guzzling p.orn hound LOSERS in the film.

    " I thought it might give me some insight as to why on earth anybody would want to do this or how on earth a person could look at a horse and think, “Yeah, I want a piece of that!”

    Animals are very visually s.exy looking to a zoo, we look at s.exy animals the same way men gawk at pretty girls, to answer that question you'd have to explore the mental and physical reasons why a man even finds a woman's shape and "chest" either s.exy or attractive, or stimulating, if you find the answer to that then you'd have the answer as to why an animal could be seen the same way.

  121. Jay

    @Doggiejigs Here's some things I've learned about you:

    1) You have WAY too much time on your hands.
    2) For someone who has intercourse with dogs you are incredibly critical of others.
    3) For someone who thinks his lifestyle is normal/natural you sure spend a lot of time defending it.

    Finally, no, I have not and never will read your Dr Hani Miletski’s book (which seems to be the only reference you have) as I have MUCH more interesting reading material I'd rather spend my time on. You can come up with as many arguments as you want to the bottom line is, YOU F**K ANIMALS MAN, WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU???? I can guarantee you one thing, we will never see the day (thank goodness) when you will be able to take Fido out for a nice meal, have a few smooches at the table, go down to the local wedding chapel and then get a nice hotel room! That alone should tell you something. LMAO! I'm sorry, this is actually becoming humorous to me now! I'm not even going to respond to the rest of your email, I mean, how can I? What do you say to someone who thinks it's o.k. to have sex with a sibling? I can't believe anybody thinks it's o.k. to have sex with animals!

  122. Doggiejigs

    Also, dogs clearly indicate what they want if you know how to read their body language.
    When I take my dogs out to the back fenced area, one who likes to run full speed around the back field will go to the gate look at it, look back at me and paw the gate, look back at me again clearly indicating she wants to go for a run. As that field is not fenced I only allow that occasionally, when I am there to watch.

    Dogs also read human body language and faces extremely well, if I am thinking of letting the dogs run in that field, they read something on me that I am, because they will all run to the gate and look back at me and try to open it. Other times they don't do that. I could not say if they are reading some body posture, gesture, my facial expression or something else, but they clearly read SOMETHING completely correct.

  123. Sammy

    Hello again, i didn't think i would be back in the horse love section again yet here i am!
    The reason I'm back is because jigs asked me a question.

    #
    Sammy09/20/2010 at 09:48

    Well, I really enjoyed turning that off. I remember the first time I ever connected to the internet. What pops up? All kinds of porn pictures of women having sex with a horses and god knows what else. Any-who… my point is that culture is out there. We know about it, but we DO NOT WANT TO KNOW ABOUT IT!
    There are some things I want to keep in the back of my mind forever and ever.
    This film happens to be one of them!
    So what was the point of this documentary anyway?
    Don’t f**k a horse or you’ll get perforation of the colon and die of peritonitis?
    I mean give me a break.
    #
    Jigs09/20/2010 at 15:59

    Well Sammy, then what did you click on the LINK for??was not the description enough to tell you what it’s about?
    He did not die of peritonitis,an infection, he bled to death.

    The point of the documentary, it describes the fact that there are people who have romantic and sexual attractions to animals, but of course, these dolts and losers depicted in the film are not ethical zoophiles, they are wannabe’s and bestialists. True ethical zoophiles don’t do what they did any more than a man shares his wife with other people for gang bang sessions.

    Answer:

    Because I had been told this documentary had high production value and great cinematography. Both things I am interested in. In this case I would describe the film as presenting something very ugly in a pretty papered package and a oversized red bow.

    It's Kind of like filming a live person being vivisected and playing show tunes as the
    background score.

  124. timmyty

    haha im sorry, but i think this is hilarious

  125. Doggiejigs

    @sammy

    "Because I had been told this documentary had high production value and great cinematography. Both things I am interested in. In this case I would describe the film as presenting something very ugly in a pretty papered package and a oversized red bow."

    Well, now you know, and you need not ever click on the link or view the film again, or any others like it in the future.
    When you see "zoo" in any titles or description, now you know not to follow that link or read that article.
    I never heard it described as you did, only that it was "controversial" and that it was unlike any other kind of documentary, movie or story before it, it is difficult to categorize or lump in with typically "documentaries" because it's not a documentary by the usual sense, it's not science fiction, history, horror/fright, promotional, against/protestation/activism, it is unique.

    "@timmyty132
    haha im sorry, but i think this is hilarious"

    So glad you find someone's death "hilarious," yes, we need more of you around, maybe working in the ER of the local hospitals to laugh when trauma patients come in.

  126. Torrque

    Not sure what all the fuss is about. I couldn't make it 1/2 way through the 2nd video clip (they're in 10min segments)... the intro just dragged slowly on and on and on... I'm not THAT motivated to sit through this. Lost interest. Going to some other video now.

  127. reg

    he wants to grab a horses warm nuts..

    what the f@#$.

  128. Mike

    Out of all the comments, the guy who f@#$ his dogs makes better points than anyone else. he is clearly intelligent and has done his homework. Personally, I'm not attracted to animals. It doesn't necessarily surprise me that people are though....there are heterosexuals who like to get s@#$ on and eat s@#$...i mean... i can't take any of it too seriously because people are going to do what they want no matter what laws are made or what society thinks.

    doggiejigs, i'm glad you had the courage to stand up for what you believe in. that takes real guts. i don't agree with it, no let me say that I don't find animals physically attractive, but i admire you defending yourself and your lifestyle. like you said there is a big difference between tieing a dog up, muzzling it, and raping it than the relationship many zoophiles have with their animals.

  129. Doggiejigs

    I'm glad you can divide the BS and emotional hysteria from the facts Mike, you are correct in your observation that people are going to do what they do regardless of laws. Bestiality carried the death penalty in puritan days, they even executed a 16 year old child, it still happened even with the death penalty, and today with threats of a fine or proverbial 60 days in jail is only going to penalize the few i@#$%^& who get caught by being careless and either abusing the animal or doing it where someone can observe them or walk in on them. Laws will not stop what goes on behind closed doors and it's wishful thinking it would.

    That is fine, you do not find animals physically attractive Mike, I feel the same way about women, and for that matter- men too, nude or otherwise. There are just curves that dogs and horses have that are as exciting to a zoo as women's breasts are to heteros, in the same way seeing them provokes that same WOW! reaction breasts do for most men. I don't pretend to have an explanation for that any more than science can explain why breasts are visually exciting for men when they are nothing more than fat and solely for nursing babies.

    Thanks for the complements, and yes, standing up for one believes is never easy in the face of hate, ridicule and deliberate misinformation, not to mention hysterics, but I do because I know the facts. Thanks for posting.

  130. Rice

    I think it was an amazingly well made documentary. It took a subject which has a lot of taboo about it and captured it in such a beatiful way. The documentary dosen't really side with anyone and in the end it's up to you.

  131. Mike

    Doggiejigs,

    No problem bro, what really upsets me is that this film is so terribly biased and made to only focus on one segment of this certain population. That is, those people who are practicing brutal bestiality, as opposed to the more sophisticated and much more well understood definition of zoophilia that we have today. That is to say people that have true loving relationships with sentient creatures of another species as opposed to those who abuse animals for sexual purposes only, the latter being the segment that this "documentary" (using the term as lightly as possible) focuses on.

    Documentary films should be made to show the WHOLE issue, not just focusing on those people who abuse animals for sex. This film does not hear the side of people like you who have an obviously loving relationship with their animals and while they may have intercourse with the animal, will not do so if the animal does not consent. I believe you have made a very powerful argument concerning whether or not dogs can consent and I, frankly, had been very ignorant and not thought of the subject in those terms.

    Like I said before, it's not my thing, and I do very strongly believe that those people who commit Beastiality, that is the ABUSE of animals for SEXUAL purposes (muzzling, restraining, and raping a dog for instance), should be punished. BUT I really do admire you for standing up for what you believe in and your way of life, which, if you are being truthful in what you write, is obviously VERY far removed from that of someone who abuses animals.

    Kudos.

  132. justwow

    This was just.... sad. So sad.
    For a documentary, it was haunting and well done.

    As far as the slant..... *sigh*

    I don't agree with their actions. Period.

    Do they sound like they were nice people? Yes.

    Would I have treated them any differently in person, even knowing this? No. ( I may be a little awkward at first, but I would still be courteous. )

    They've made some terrible choices, and are at least human enough to live with the consequences of their choices.

    Whether those consequences are to be isolated from society, or social outcasts, or living their lives in guilt or regret....

    It's all just very sad.

    I also agree with doggiejigs and mike, that there is a difference between the two.

    My beliefs may not agree with the actions, but... well.... *throws up hands in a what're ya' gonna' do? gesture*

    I'm certainly not going to convert anyone, so live and let live is the best I can hope for.

  133. Lillyvon

    This doco was a load of c@#$. I don't care about the 'topic' so to speak - even if I like it or not - it's about a GOOD doco and this was the worst I've seen. Ok - interesting topic - guy who has sex with farm animals. Interesting to say the least. But to be honest it seemed like the twit that made this was actually condoning it and he was into it as well! Not only that it TRIED to be art house so badly it just ended up bad - much like Jesus Camp. I'll watch a doco on ANYTHING - but it has to be good, well made and informative. Zoo had none of those thus it's a c#$% house documentary on all levels of rubbish!

  134. Alex

    Stupidest documentary I've ever seen. It would have been interesting to understand what makes these guys tick but the doc was directed in such poor way (i.e., no direct talking about the subject/too much skirting around the issue) that this wasn't possible...

  135. Doggiejigs

    Thanks Mike, you sound like a level headed chap who can see the differences, good to read your lines here!
    Do keep in mind, this film was never meant to be a doc on zoophilia, it was not filmed to take sides pro or con, what it was filmed for was the case involving Ken, who died in a very unusual way. That it happened to portray his ummm "friends" who happened to be bestialists and not zoosexuals is by happenstance of the circumstances surrounding this incident and death.
    He very well could have died the same accidental way with real friends who were ethical zoosexuals and the film would be showing them instead of these bestialists.
    However, I firmly believe his bestialist "friends" waited too long to get him medical care, they were too damn busy disposing of their illegal porn collection and doing damage control to have bothered taking Ken to the emergency room IMMEDIATELY, and so, the guy bled to death and was pretty much just about dead by the time these f00ls finally did take him in and dumped him off.
    They are guilty of manslaughter in my book for their inactions, and the fact that one of them was arrested again recently, in a different state- Tennessee, says a whole lot doesn't it?
    Careless, f00l who will probably wind up arrested again, that time he won't get off so easy.

  136. Lulu

    Wooooooooooooooooooow that was boring. Way to take a totally fascinating subject and so totally over-art-ify it so that it renders the whole thing completely slow and flat. Meh.

  137. Reprovo

    And so It begins.... the gradual descent to greater depths.

  138. bob

    what a bunch of in bred hick psychos. These people need to be institutionalized

  139. Billy Brown

    It's an fantastic documentary but it's extremely disturbing. If they don't have the stomach for it then I suggest that you do not watch it.

    Btw Mike and Djiggs, you are fooling no one. You are clearly one and the same person.

  140. Doggiejigs

    @Billy Brown,
    Wrong, I am not "mike" I am Doggiejigs, the same name I've posted with every time I've posted in this documentary comment section.
    I don't use words like 'F@$!' or terms like 'F@$! dogs' it's 'intimacies with dogs', the term 'F@$! dogs' is disrespectful to the animals.
    I don't need to create a fake second personna here, I don't give a rat's azz if anyone agrees with my views on zoo or not, I'm the one with over 40 years experience, I know what I'm talking about, you don't.

  141. sol rosenburg

    SEXY!

  142. Blue

    wow....that was some powerful stuff...amazing film making and telling of the story...almost dream like...it lulls you into the story and then hits you in the gut. Impressive on so many levels. Def. deserves the accolades.

  143. Charles B.

    I felt sorry for his family. Imagine his kid's trauma when he gets old enought to find out what really happened to his dad. I feel so sympathetic for him.

  144. ator rushford

    I think it was beautiful. Just because a man loves an animal is no reason to to call him disgusting! i think there is nothing more beautiful than a man making love to an animal he loves an respects

  145. Doggiejigs

    Well said ator!

  146. Sarah

    Just wanted to point one thing out to KennyL:
    meat-eaters and leather-wearers are doing something involving a deceased animal.

    Life observer is more on the money in speaking of animal abuse, neutering, and "putting down" with the statement (paraphrased) 'as if we care' about animals.

  147. Sarah

    @ Doggiejigs
    "Somehow, we never seem to need their consent for any of that, but AMAZINGLY- wait for this- when S.EX is involved, all of a sudden the table flips over, the deck of cards fall to the floor, the lights go on bright and we humans must get CONSENT that some claim is impossible to obtain, go figure that one by golly!"

    I think you can argue better than this for your side, can't you?
    This person was comparing to human relawas comparing need of consent to human relationships, not other involvement with animals. To put it this way: their view of a relationship was that it needed to be consensual and instead of directing your argument towards the need of consent in a relationship, you dodged it by saying animals don’t consent to anything. Yes, animals are different, but explain how. Why is it okay to do a nonconsensual act because other nonconsensual acts are performed?
    That is the question you need to address. I am not saying what you do is abuse, but in your own words then, it’s technically rape.

    I may be biased, since I’m a little asexual myself, but I’m for you. Not exactly sure to what extent, but this topic hasn’t really been brought to my attention before.

  148. jigs

    @ Sarah,
    The "consent" arguement is the one brought up time and again by the opposition to justify themselves and being against zoophilia. The other is they connect it in their own minds to CHILDREN, and so, the typical argument almost always brings in:

    1)"...are like innocent children"
    2)"...animals CANT consent to sex"

    Animals are not children with fur, that's pretty easy to dismiss, on #2 I send that statement right back at them with what I posted earlier, if you are going to argue humans need "consent" from animals, I'm game! but by the same token, you have to explain why humans never before needed ANY form of consent, never seek it from an animal, and never ensure they obtain it BEFORE they do any of the miriad of things humans do to animals and have done all through history.
    Things which either cause extreme misery, pain or death, but when you toss in SEX, all of sudden consent is REQUIRED and by golly you'd better get that consent- which the opposition claims is impossible in the first place, so they answer their own arguement with their own impossible pre-scenario circular arguement- get consent for sex but since consent is "not possible" according to them, then you can't get consent, but then they overlook that consent has NEVER been sought or obtained for anything else!

    At least zoosexuals DO get consent from their animals as best as anyone can.

  149. Mark

    Let them have their animals. It's 1000 times better than preying on kids and the weak or underprivileged. Some who comment with disgust here may even have had sexual relations with minors or crazy drunk or drugged people. Delusional world.

  150. jigs

    @ Mark , true about the hypocracy part, though I don't care so much for the "less evil than" type of argument.
    The same people who scream about animal abuse are typically animal users and contribute to their torture and deaths by consuming animal based products- meat, eggs, dairy, leather. Eggs and dairy products in one form or another are found in almost every food in the supermarket. It's astounding how many products contain one or more of them, even Jello contains gelatin made from animals, you almost can't get away from it.
    I won't even go into the "sport" hunting facet of human existance, or the deer "management" techniques that involve "harvesting" tens of thousands of them every year in my state to reduce deer-car collisions because humans insist on driving cars.

  151. Topaz

    Very interesting just a little slow.

  152. Luke

    This was the shittest doco ive seen on here.

    Not only is the subject matter awful......its just badly made and has little educational value.

    I got more from the comments than the video.

  153. Ike

    I don't believe in right or wrong, good or evil, saint or sinner & god or devil. Right or wrong is an individual's own mental perception. That's why I get pissed with preachers & I think that religion is the biggest hypocrisy that mankind / civilization has developed. Just made rules to survive in the ancient world & which are completely obsolete & useless in modern society.
    So please people, keep your perceptions to yourself and stop fighting.
    @jigs - I admire your honesty, courage & openness.

  154. martin de porrez

    all this energy for some film award, man somebody's gettin some.

  155. hey

    It's important that issues that are controversial are explored and that all possible sides be discussed. I only saw an exert of this documentary and commend the individuals and film makers for shedding light on the issue. I do think it's worth noting our reactions to individuals who have different tastes, it seems to be as outrageous as the perceived subject. Consider this: The tastes, preferences and identity choices you make as a person should be valued regardless of their differences ... though I'm not a fan of zoophilia myself, I am of free choice.

  156. Lillyvon

    @ "hey". Sure controversial issues SHOULD be explored, but issues like this should not be 'promoted' or 'justified' like this rubbish doco tried to do! Not only that your comment about 'free choice' could not be further from the point. Yes it's 'free choice' for the human - but did you think about the animals??? They have NO choice! It's up there with having sex with little kids. Or rape. It is NOT free choice when one of the two engaged in sex has no voice, does not want it or refuses it!

    Oh, and no matter what the topic - this documentary was absolute trash made by horse f@#$%^& perverts to try and justify their lust for our four legged friends.

  157. jigs

    martin de porrez

    all this energy for some film award, man somebody’s gettin some."

    Not true, if it were then you can say ALL films are made to get film awards.

    The film's public debut was at the Sundance Film Festival in January 2007, where it was one of 16 winners out of 856 candidates. Following Sundance, it was selected as one of the top five American films to be presented at the prestigious Directors Fortnight sidebar at the 2007 Cannes Film Festival.

  158. jigs

    "Lillyvon

    @ “hey”. Sure controversial issues SHOULD be explored, but issues like this should not be ‘promoted’ or ‘justified’ like this rubbish doco tried to do"

    And where do you see sex with animals being PROMOTED in this film, please show me the part where it does this so as to back up your claim. You can't because this film neither condemns nor promotes, it simply shows the events and background. If anything, it discourgages, not promotes.

    "Yes it’s ‘free choice’ for the human – but did you think about the animals??? They have NO choice! It’s up there with having sex with little kids. Or rape. It is NOT free choice when one of the two engaged in sex has no voice, does not want it or refuses it!"

    Yada yada yada, same tired old chit by people who don't know ANYTHING about this subject beyond a few farm geezer with sheep jokes and what they heard 3rd hand.
    Animals certainly DO consent to sex, and do initiate sexual contact with humans.
    They have all the same functional body parts we do, including a clitorus in females and orgasm.
    Animals certainly can refuse, in fact a dog can KILL a human pretty easily, as the news showed with that woman who was killed by Bane Presa Canario dog in California in her hallway a few years back. A horse can easily break your legs if you get near and do something they dont like.
    But be that as it may, oh I'm sure as you sit down to your steak dinner or porkchops tonight, you can justify the wholescale brutality of the MEAT industry culminating in their Sobibor death camp end for every animal that runs through their system.
    Funny how consent is not needed there as long as you get your porkchops eh?
    but the moment SEX enters, suddenly people need consent? get real! if you want consent for sex then it has to be for EVERYTHING else humans do to animals, that means an automatic end to the brutal meat industry, you can't have it both ways.

    "Oh, and no matter what the topic – this documentary was absolute trash made by horse f@#$%^& perverts to try and justify their lust for our four legged friends."

    Robinson Devor the director is not a zoo, unless you can prove to the contrary, you are libelling Mr Devor with your statement.
    I didn't see one bit of "justifying" in this film, indeed it showed a bunch of losers whom I personally do not consider to be real zoos but more like bestialists and porn mongers, so do not insult real zoos by lumping this trash in with those of us who DO get consent via body language and actually care about our animals.
    The film showed these guys going out to "pester the animals" and then returning to the house with their arms caked in black crud, along with the statement that the barn was used by a toilet by all the animals on the farm. Obvious to me is they never bothered to clean the place, they sat around boozing beer, playing on the net and porn mongering. It looked like Ken and one other were about the only one with any kind of real jobs.

  159. hey

    Re: Lilyvon and Jigs

    I think you need to read my remarks again. I watched a short exert, did not see issues regarding the animals but only the personal stories associated to the "zoos" themselves.. I am not a advocate for animal cruelty at all .. nor am I with raping children. Before you jump the gun and put words in my mouth, or a c***. begin to understand individual perspectives; especially those that have stated they only know HALF THE STORY (Ie. an exert). Do you need more clarification?

  160. hey

    That remark was for Lilyvon.. (Jigs.. I believe you are refuting Lilyvon .. I read that wrong)

  161. jigs

    @hey
    Yes, I was refuting (and quoted) Lilyvon and responded to the quoted points, but you really need to watch the whole film not just excerpts out of context.
    Excerpts don't show the whole story and can be misleading.

  162. 909dot

    For heavens sake....don't comment on something you have not even seen! That's ridiculous. Mr. Devor is an amazing director. He has taken on a subject that has never been touched and filmed it impeccably. He takes NO side what ever...only shows the circumstances and characters and events that lead to this tragic story. PLEASE....watch, read, listen to ALL of something you wish to comment on if you want an honest discussion.

  163. azilda

    I haven't watched it yet...reading the comments has been enough for tonight.
    I think it is kind of funny or strange to see how much attention this "sick" (as named) film is getting though. I wonder how many people watched until the end before writing about being so appalled.
    Sex sells no matter how warped it is!
    az
    will comment later if i can stand watching til the end!

  164. jigs

    @azilda

    "I wonder how many people watched until the end before writing about being so appalled."

    Probably most tuned out and didn't watch the whole thing, that's typical- people always have opinions on things they know nothing about and refuse to learn anything about, but insist they know all about how that something "IS" and proceed to tell the world how much they don't really know, lol

  165. Lillyvon

    1. I DID watch the entire 'documentary' - sadly. It was awful. Terribly directed, badly edited etc.

    2. I cannot believe the amount of people JUSTIFYING having sex with animals. You are sick people. I have a very open mind when it comes to sex but I'm sorry, a line MUST be drawn when it comes to sucking off horses or butt f@cking Lassie.

    3. I was curious to the subject matter as I do enjoy any GOOD documentary - no matter what the subject. Should I 'approve' of the subject to enjoy it - no. It's interesting. This documentary for me WAS NOT INTERESTING. It was self indulgent bullshit.

    Simple as that! And seriously - some of you need to go see a shrink.

  166. Lillyvon

    Oh and by the way - having sex with animals is ILLEGAL for a reason!

  167. Lillyvon

    @"jigs"
    "Yada yada yada, same tired old chit by people who don’t know ANYTHING about this subject beyond a few farm geezer with sheep jokes and what they heard 3rd hand.
    Animals certainly DO consent to sex, and do initiate sexual contact with humans.
    They have all the same functional body parts we do, including a clitorus in females and orgasm.
    Animals certainly can refuse, in fact a dog can KILL a human pretty easily, as the news showed with that woman who was killed by Bane Presa Canario dog in California in her hallway a few years back. A horse can easily break your legs if you get near and do something they dont like."

    So hold the phone - if that is your reasoning - then I could take a five year old boy - touch his penis - it gets hard and lets face it, he has a penis - so it's ok for me to have sex with him????? My partner can take a girl that is mute and because she cannot talk but has breasts and maybe gets wet when he touches her - it's his right to have sex with her???

    You are absolutely crazy and I'd like to hear you use that defence in COURT when you get arrested for having sex with animals! Should work like a dream - you FREAK!

  168. Inga

    Sick how the people in this world is turning in too . These men ar just animals thats why they like animals. And they try too justify it by saying i love the horse ! if you love the horse then stop raping him you sicko. Child molestors say the same thing about loving the baby so much that si why i rape it .I feel so bad for the animals i cant imagine how they feel like so sad and heart breaking.

  169. Ike

    @jigs
    Its ok. There'r too many conformist brain dead sheep in this world (and this documentary blog) who have not been taught to think on their own, but follow what society has programmed them to do, think, say, eat, drink, smoke, f**k, etc, etc.
    Its ironic to see women who are against zoos the most here.

  170. jigs

    @Inga
    Animals are not children (or women) you try to justify your contribution to the TORTURE AND MURDER of the same animals every time you bite into a tasty burger, or drink a nice cool glass of milk. Did you ever research what the PMS drug for women's menopause is made from, the one called PreMAREin? did you know they make it from an extract from pregnant mare urine, betcha didn't know that, so if you are ever on those pills you are abusing those horses too hypocrit.

  171. jigs

    Funny how the ones who always go "oh those POOR innocent animals, that's animal abuse!!!" (speaking of a 1500# horse who can kill a man with one kick) sitting on their ass eating a juicy pork chop or ham sandwich while typing that chit in forums like this LOL.

  172. jigs

    @Inga

    "I feel so bad for the animals i cant imagine how they feel like so sad and heart breaking."

    you feel so dam bad, go do something about the MEAT INDUSTRY hypocrit, instead of worrying about the tiny percentage of zoos who have consentual sex with their animals you'd do a lot better putting your efforts to outlawing consumption of MEAT!
    Now go out there and start lobbying for getting rid of the livestock and meat industry, the ones where every single animal that passes alive thru the front doors pass thru the back doors- DEAD.

  173. jigs

    @Inga
    You want to put some numbers on this?

    Here, try this on for size, a few hundred or maybe up to 1,000 animals might be involved sexually with a human in the US.

    Approximately 100,000 cows per day are KILLED, we slaughter 35 MILLION cows annually in the USA. This pales in comparison to to the number of Chicken killed in the USA is around 23 million per day.

    Approximately 45-50% of the animal can be turned into edible products (meat). About 15% are waste, and the remaining 40-45% of the animal are turned into byproducts such as leather, soaps, candles (tallow), and adhesives.

    In the United States, around NINE BILLION animals are slaughtered every year (this includes about 150.4 million cattle, bison, sheep, hogs, and goats and 8.9 billion chickens, turkeys, and ducks) in 5,700 slaughterhouses and processing plants employing 527,000 workers;in 2007, 28.1 billion pounds of beef were consumed in the U.S. alone.

    In Canada, 650 million animals are killed annually.'In the European Union, the annual figure is 300 million cattle, sheep, and pigs, and four billion chickens.

    Now Inga honey, come back and tell me which is the bigger problem and not only causes abuse but outright torture culminating in DEATH, and come back here and tell me how a guy giving a blow job to a 1500# horse is "abuse" when on the same day that happens THOUSANDS of old and unwanted horses are slaughtered in meat packing plants.

  174. Lillyvon

    @jigs. You are seriously f@%ked in the head. Your 'reasoning' is not reasoning at all. First there are children being slaughtered in Africa by rebels, children starving to death and dying all around the world - so in your logic - that makes it ok to have sex with them because, well, heaps of them are killed or dying anyway??????????

    Just because animals have sex DOES NOT MEAN IT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO HAVE SEX WITH THEM!!! There is a REASON dummy that dogs do not have sex with cats - or whales do not have sex with sharks. And there is a HUGE reason you should not be sticking your little wang into Fluffy the cat! Yes when you rub a dogs stomach it's penis might get stiff - that is a natural uncontrolled reaction. It's not the dog thinking 'oh yeah, I really want that human to have sex with me' you sicko.

    And I just laugh at you moron's that are saying because some of us NORMAL people are against animal sex because we are 'conformist'???? You lot are equal to the NAMBLA men who justify having sex with underage boys as 'just pure love'.

    All I know from reading this is there are some sick individuals out there! You can justify it till the cows come home - I just hope they do not come home to your place because you will probably stick your dick in them!

    Oh, and dummies - there is a REASON Mr Hands died horribly - because an animal, for example the horse that fucked him to DEATH does not know or can control what it's doing or UNDERSTANDS. It THOUGHT it was having sex with another horse which could take it's girth - not some sicko freak who wanted stallion dick in his bum! Wake up!

  175. jigs

    @ Lillyvon

    QUOTE: "So hold the phone – if that is your reasoning – then I could take a five year old boy – touch his "

    There you go, hysterical and emotional and jumping to your own eroneous stupid conclusions, animals are NOT children with fur, but you can't see to tell the difference now between a 5 year old boy and a dog or horse, so there's not much point in holding a rational conversation with someone who can't even tell the difference!

  176. jigs

    @ Lillyvon

    First of you you make the same dopey mistake as most in assuming animals are children with fur, hello? did you happen to notice they are not children or are you just too daft to know the difference between a dog and an infant?
    Not one thing you ranted about children applies to anything related to zoophilia or animals.
    My argument was that if you hypocrits sitting there eating burgers or ham sandwiches, or wearing leather shoes, taking premarin or any other animal produced product, consumer good, food or drug are going to scream “abuse!!! abuse!!” you’d better look long and hard in the mirror at your self- YOU are the ones directly contributing to torture and animal MURDER, so get off your high horse and fix your own household before you come into mine and get me B.S. for having consentual sex.
    Dogs dont have sex with cats but many animals DO cross the specie barrier, I have reams of proof- photos and videos showing it as well as published documents proving it happens along with masturbation and much more.

    Mr Hands died because he was a fool and he and his friend were drunk, stumbling around in the dark producing a PORN rag- they were video taping. Mistake #1- not having your full senses unimpared, #2- not having a reliable HELPER who is helping not trying to run a camcorder, #3 filming porn in the first place, #4 trespassing on a neighbor’s farm in the dead of night, #5- being crazy enough to try a stallion that size instead of sticking with a much smaller horse or dog.

    Oh but yeah, the horse was “abused” I’m sure.

  177. Lillyvon

    Oh god it's like arguing with a tree - pointless! You say 'rational' yet you are possibly the most irrational person I've ever had the displeasure to get into a discussion with.

    You know what - you go ahead and live in la la land where you think it's ok to have sex with animals and I hope when you are carted away by the cops because it's ILLEGAL, they beat the shit out of you. As a pet owner I think you and your 'rational' thoughts are just pathetic and sad. I'm guessing you cannot get a human being and animals are a last resort. You know how aid came about right Mr smarty pants! Ever think that is nature's way of saying STOP FUCKING ANIMALS - YOU ARE A HUMAN BEING!

    Oh, and correct genius, animals are not children - but BOTH of those are innocence - they cannot choose. An animals cannot say yes or no.

    Oh, and I notice how you have not addressed 99% of my points I've made! Typical. You've had your dick in chickens too long dude! I hope you get some horrible disease and your genitals fall off!

  178. Ike

    @ jigs
    Tasty Pork chops with milk, tasty burger with ham sanwitch, etc etc, etc hahahahahaha

  179. 909dot

    wow....this forum has suddenly turned into a bad Jerry Springer re-run.... Why don't we talk about the film, like it or not, and stop saying you hope the other person dies a horrible death...is that how you deal with unpleasant topics in your daily lives?.....glass houses...

  180. jigs

    Lillyvon

    "Oh god it’s like arguing with a tree – pointless! You say ‘rational’ yet you are possibly the most irrational person I’ve ever had the displeasure to get into a discussion with."

    @Lillyvon, LOL, me irrational, you are the one wishing death and more on another person, you are the one going into hysterical emotional outbursts and can't even tell the difference between a dog and a child.

    "You know what – you go ahead and live in la la land where you think it’s ok to have sex with animals and I hope when you are carted away by the cops because it’s ILLEGAL,"

    Yeah well, spitting on the sidewalk is also ILLEGAL, so is driving without insurance, the word "illegal" doesn't mean a whole lot honey, in years past it was ILLEGAL to open a store on sunday or blasphemy god, they were crimes you could be arrested for in this country.
    But don't worry, in my state there is NO law that makes contact with an animal a crime, it's not "illegal" everywhere.

    I’m guessing you cannot get a human being and animals are a last resort. You know how aid came about right Mr smarty pants! "

    LOL!! wrong sweetie, I am simply not turned on by the human body at all, neither male or female, it is of no interest to me whatsoever, my interest is in animals.
    WHy dont YOUR explain to us all here exactly how AIDS got started, go ahead and show us how smart you are! I know the THEORIES on how it was started, and it's been documented in the medical journals as exactly that- theories, and one is bushmen taking illegal meat from hunting PRIMATES and contaminated blood got into cuts on the poachers. PRIMATES are very closely related to humans, and get most of the same diseases we do. Another theory is the US Govt's experimentation with biowarfare, given the US Gov't past history of doing exactly that, as well as illegal experimentation on unsuspecting people in the WW2 era, I would look at that theory above any others.

    "Oh, and correct genius, animals are not children – but BOTH of those are innocence – they cannot choose. An animals cannot say yes or no."

    Oh really? ever try to give a 150# dog a bath when he doesn't want one?
    Ever try floating teeth on a horse who wants no part of it? I'd say animals do say no and are very clear in showing that, even if it breaks your LEGS.

    "Oh, and I notice how you have not addressed 99% of my points I’ve made! Typical. "

    Typical hysterical woman, liar! but your "points" aren't worth adressing, you are beyond being educated on this topic so why should I bother addressing your silly "points"!! DO us a favor lady, unsuscribe from this documentary and go find one on knitting or watercolors and get lost.

  181. jigs

    Lillyvon posted

    "It THOUGHT it was having se.x with another horse which could take it’s girth – not some..."

    There you go, right there with that one line you are stating that animals are too STUPI.D to even know the difference between a bent over man, and a female animal in heat! You really think that stallion was so STUPI.D as to think this guy was a mare in heat?
    I suppose by that logic the stallion wouldn't know the difference between hay and rocks, but gee, somehow he managed to survive inspite of his serious fatal handicap of being that stupi.d!

  182. Epicurus

    i want so badly to address all of jugs points but i feel very strongly that i would be falling into a troll trap.

    especially considering every single one of his points has been refuted except his sophistry and rhetoric has been good enough to divert peoples attention from his failures to properly address his rebuttals.

    bottom line is that animals dont have the cognition to be able to make the right choice in these situations and the human is in a position of dominance due to his mental faculties. just like with a child or even a drunk adult.

  183. Epicurus

    jiggs*

    sorry

  184. jigs

    Epicurus wrote

    "especially considering every single one of his points has been refuted "

    I don't see any of my points "refuted" one bit, opinions fall flat on their face in the face of FACTS and proven reality.
    You claim animals can't "consent", it's provable they can and certainly do, you claim animals cant defend themselves, the deaths and hospital room visits due to dog attacks and horse kicks prove animals are very capable of defending themselves too, as well as object. That's why horse trianers and breeders have to wear safety helmets and body protection and are carefull to keep their distance during mating, a zoo however can go right in and engage in sex with that stallion or mare and NOT need that stuff at all.

    You claim the consent thing further, but fail to demonstrate where any consent is required or obtained by ANY no zoophile at any time, ever, when dealing with animals in the livestock, rodeo, animal showing, breeding, pet owning circles.

    You show me where consent is ever asked, let alone obtained from any of the billions of animals heading towards meat packing plants every year, the wild animals caught in leg-hold traps every year, the dogs mutilated with cosmetic surgery, the horse who is worked hours and hours pulling carriages for tourists, and then locked in a small stall at night- you can't because consent isnt even in the ballpark let alone the table there, yet bring sex in and lo and behold STOP the presses!! it is announced that people need CONSENT from the animal when SEX is involved now!!!
    But according to Lillyvon, horses are so stupid they can't tell the difference between the backside of a man and a mare in heat, in which case if anyone is that crazy to believe that- I don't see where it would even matter what anyone does, given they are THAT "stupid," they wouldn't even know what was happening "back there," but I digress!

  185. jigs

    Epicurus also wrote

    "bottom line is that animals dont have the cognition to be able to make the right choice in these situations "

    So what you are also saying is animals are too stupi.d to make their own decisions, and therefore are not sentient creatures. Well, if they are not sentient then they are animated lumps of flesh with no soul too, in which case it wouldn't matter what we do to them anyway, indeed, that's the attitude of the livestock industry- they are warehouse stock materials to make money from that happen to be live, at least for a little while.

    Funny thing is, we humans pretend to be the caretakers and salvators of all animals, why, they'd all be dead and extinct were it not for US rescuing them from themselves, the environment and other animals.
    But forget that animals were here LONG LONG before us and survived very nicely without our "help" and medling, they bred and had offspring naturally, without antibiotics, genital washings/disinfecting, c-sections, drugs, heated kennels and stables, clorinated water and fences.

    Somehow they all DID survive quite well in fact without *US*, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, drought, famines, preditors, forest fires, floods, hurricanes, tornados, they ate, slept, bred, lived and increased all without our "help," long before we came on the scene, so yeah, I'd say animals are quite capable of making their own choices, decisions and all the rest they need to survive, find food, mates, fend of preditors, famines, drought and do it without speaking English.

    You are among those of the right-wing type who go by that book and the teachings by the church that animals have no souls, are here for us to do whatever we feel like, including sacrifices on altars, and don't matter, furthermore- that they are too stupi.d and helpless to survive without US, and that we are superior in every way and they are just lowly lumps here for our amusement and food.
    The church has done more damage that way than anything else and have propagated the concept that animals are "lower" creatures of no importance except to be killed for sin sacrifices, and to stuff the faces of people who don't need to eat meat at all.

  186. jigs

    So what it ALL boils down to Epi is strictly the fact that you personally don't like the IDEA of sex with animals, and are making up whatever excuses about consent, intelligence, abuse etc etc that you can come up with, without admitting that the real true reason is your personal objection.

    Next I'd expect you to start quoting scriptures when the rest of your "arguments" fail, because the last ditch effort to argue against scientific proof, personal observation and so forth- is to bring a god or holy book into the discussion so that the opposition can only disagree with what you consider to be "perfect" and irrefutable.
    Soon as the thing deteriorates into "god said..." "jesus said..." "the bible says..." you LOST the argument because it's impossible to hold a raitonal conversation and refute misinformation with facts, when an invisible, invinceable santa claus is brought into the fray.
    So save us both the trouble, and don't bother, there's loads of other documentaries in here for you to watch, go find one.

  187. jigs

    There are youtube videos of horses mating, there are videos of horses having their teeth floated, take notice that in every one of the mating video, the human handlers typically wear head protection, heavy boots, various padding and other gear. Take notice that they are extremely cautious and keep their distance to avoid being kicked or stepped on.

    ALSO take note of the specific but typical youtube clip linked to above, you will see the usual mare TIED UP and forced to be bred by the stallion. In this clip it's obvious the mare didn't want any part of this stallion, kicking at him, moving her rear away, yet the handlers had her TIED to a fence post, used a twitch, and the stallion controlled to some extent with a rope.

    Where's the outrage about the lack of "consent" there? go watch all of the related videos and in almost every one them you will see more or less the same things, the humans have the mare TIED UP or restrained, and some of them like this one clearly do NOT consent to the breeding and either try to kick (the one in this clip would have broken a man's leg if it hit) or try to move away.

    In contrast, you have the zoo type person without all that safety gear, no restraints, twitches- successfully having sex with either a mare OR a stallion. It's clear from these clips that a mare can easily KICK or simply move her rear end away.
    Now if you want to try to claim she can be tied up for it, sure can, and they are for BREEDING, but restraints are not used by ZOOPHILES or zoosexuals, for the very definition of the word precludes the use of force!
    The ones who would tie her up are called bestialists NOT zoophiles/zoosexuals.
    Bestialists are the ones you read about in the news, and are the ones who cause INJURIES, as well as fence hop and use other people's animals in the middle of the night like these clowns in the movie did.

  188. jigs

    As far as the floating of teeth in horses, there are clips of that too there, and one I watched recently done by a vet said that the horse was given tranquilizers so the doctor could do this procedure.
    So you ask, WHY would the doctor need to put the horse into a drugged duped out state for a painless procedure like filing his sharp teeth?

    ANSWER: because the horse can and will object, kick, refuse to allow it.
    Same reason dogs have to be put out for teeth cleaning!

    Click on the link in my name again for a clip of floating, note the horse is drugged, head restrained to a pole, and an appliance inserted in the mouth to keep it open.

    Again, logic dictates- the vet has to use DRUGS to put the horse into a stupor, use another person along with a head restraint and a mouth restraint just to file some sharp teeth.

    Again, where's the consent? again, if no consent is asked, required, or obtained for any of these procedures, then it's not required, asked or obtained for anything else by animal owners, huh?
    Again, if drugs, restraints and 2 people are required just for teeth maintenance, then it clearly proves the animal CAN resist and stop it, it's only because of the DRUGS, helper and TWO restraining devices that this horse doesn't either run off or kick this vet upside the head.

    So again, not only does the consent thing fly off into the wind, but the "defenseless" argument also flops on it's face.
    The only reason this horse is defenseless in this video is because of DRUGS, a helper and TWO restraint devices making it impossible.

  189. jigs

    And lastly for now, click on my name and watch the artificial insemination procedure done on a mare at a breeding facility. Note they have the mare in a restraining device and that it takes 3 handlers.
    What consent is shown there?

    Now watch as the guy inserts his entire ARM along with a plastic tube to do the procedure, not only is his arm far longer and far larger around than a man's puny 6 or 7" "wonder pickle."
    The mare hardly even notices...

    So what does that indicate when the mare hardly notices a human man's ARM inserted in her along with a plastic tube compared to a man's "wonder pickle"- it says if she hardly noticed the arm, she certainly wouldn't notice the wonder pickle, and it certainly wouldn't cause injury or pain!

  190. jigs

    Click my name and see a clip from Animal Planet of a spooked horse slamming a guy in a carriage and tearing the carriage apart with his hooves, still think animals are "defenseless"??

  191. jigs

    Here's another clip from Kanpur on their news channel showing an abusive horse owner being attacked by the horse, bitten and kicked.
    The horse had him on the ground down!
    One angry horse, and yet were to believe "defenseless" eh?

  192. die! die! die!

    these men are all going to hell! they should do themselves a favor and chew on a grenade better still, hang themselves.i am so mad at these guys!

  193. Taco Bell

    "Love one another, as I have loved you..." - Funny how his last words are so easily forgotten. Yet all of the "religious" folks on here do not agree with the God they pledge allegiance to... strange? Indeed.

    Science has proven that evolution is in fact, REAL. Even the Pope admits it....

    This means Human Beings and all OTHER Beings on this planet most likely come from the same original organisms. And science plainly tells us that we are of the newest additions. We are simply a genetically stronger, smarter, and much sexier version of what was once a Bonobo chimp. Seriously.

    Following me so far?

    People that are gay are not gay because they choose to be, it's because it is their path in life, THEY ARE GAY!!!

    Science has proven that people are most attracted to races similar but MOSTLY dis-similar to their own. Hence why most white males have a fetish for Asian girlies, it's so simple...

    Now let's take this a step farther, imagine occasionally in the human genome, an unused chromosome becomes activated in a developing fetus and it just so happens that it is some old, ancient, long forgotten animal sex instinct chromosome.

    So now, you have a being that has done nothing wrong, entered this world, and will be branded and hated for doing what comes naturally to that person.

    And don't listen to the media, they lie, the true statistics for people that have animal interests are VASTLY skewed simply because of how taboo it is. How MANY people do you know that would even want to take part in a poll on this topic... I don't know any, not a single one. But the internet is riddled with animal media and many search engines have animal topics in their top ranks... That means MILLIONS of people are viewing this stuff online... Get over it.

    So there you have it, science proves everything and religion just creates hate and prejudice towards anyone that is not "normal"

    I realize these people are WAY DIFFERENT and hard to accept for a lot of us, but that is life... I'm gonna side with my homie, Uncle Jesus, "forgive and forget."

    I mean, cuz to me it's like gay people... If you aren't gay, then stop worrying about it, why the hell do you care if some guy in another state likes to bone dudes right? The reason is that it DOESN'T DIRECTLY AFFECT YOU... Animal stuff, same thing IMO

    Unless they are HURTING or KILLING animals, then it's a big problem.

  194. jigs

    @Taco Bell Well said.
    I don't know about a long forgotten gene, I guess it's possible. All I know is I found animals very erotic before I was even a teen, same as a boy would discover an attraction for other boys.

    Were born "programmed" to have sex with something, we don't automatically know WHAT or what to do with this urge, the human body doesn't come with an owner's manual, so the choice to aim this towards the OPPOSITE sex is something LEARNED by watching mom-dad, tv shows, print ads and millions of examples every day everywhere the kid goes. Everywhere the kid goes it sees a man and a woman and a kid together and leanred the meaning of the word "family" and accepts that "family" means mom, dad, and kids.

    If the same kid was born and dumped on a deserted tropical island by a few months of age and managed to survive living on coconuts and plants, and the only other inhabitants of the island were dogs, I can guarantee the dogs will be teaching the kid about sex by EXAMPLE when they engage in it themselves.

    Free from brainwashing and influences, as well as religious dogma-
    in short order the kid would be participating and thinking this is how it is.

  195. jigs

    Quote: William Paley
    these are the kinds of experiences that Dawkins and his Atheist bogey men would probably have no comment on. This is the atheist world of madness. This is as close as you can get. This is a glimpse of a future world where Atheism domiantes and anything goes."

    Your right wingers always come up with this kind of garbage LOL. In reality religion has caused more death, destruction, subversion than anything I can think of, it's caused wars, justified slavery, fear, hate, stealing land "for god" and destruction of the environment (jezus will fix it all later) and animals (claimed they have no souls and are here to be used)

  196. Epicurus

    @Jigs, no animals dont have the cognition to know exactly what is going on. yes animals are too stupid to make this type of decision.

    i never once said the animal cant defend itself. i said the human is in a position of dominance due to their higher cognition (clearly some more than others). if an animal is so capable of defending itself as you seem to like to say how come we have so many in captivity? do they enjoy it? is it their choice?

    you said
    "You claim the consent thing further, but fail to demonstrate where any consent is required or obtained by ANY no zoophile at any time, ever, when dealing with animals in the livestock, rodeo, animal showing, breeding, pet owning circles."

    i am not making an argument for or against any other form of animal ownership or possession. your attempt to bring other forms up is an obvious red herring which is another reason i think you are a troll.

    your entire first post to me is a complete non sequitor rant. it is a complete F grade in logic. it made me want to pay for you to get an education.

    you said:
    "So what you are also saying is animals are too stupi.d to make their own decisions, and therefore are not sentient creatures. Well, if they are not sentient then they are animated lumps of flesh with no soul too, in which case it wouldn’t matter what we do to them anyway, indeed, that’s the attitude of the livestock industry- they are warehouse stock materials to make money from that happen to be live, at least for a little while."

    yes animals are too stupid to make certain decisions for themselves to know the complete outcome. this is not to say they are not sentient. that is another sign that you lack any logic. my post was incredibly short and the amount you have screwed up on it is staggering.

    once again, im not making an argument for or against the livestock industry. im arguing you fucking animals and whether it is really a good thing to do. i absolutely would liken fucking an animal to fucking a child anywhere from 0-17, or even a boss fucking their employee or a teacher fucking their student. there are many reasons those are all wrong but they all share a common denominator and if you cant recognize that then you clearly fail at life.

    you said:
    "Funny thing is, we humans pretend to be the caretakers and salvators of all animals, why, they’d all be dead and extinct were it not for US rescuing them from themselves, the environment and other animals."

    who said this? if thats what people think they are wrong. but just because that is wrong doesnt make your argument more right. this is not about being a caretaker but about taking the more ethical and moral approach when dealing with another sentient being.

    you said:
    "You are among those of the right-wing type who go by that book and the teachings by the church that animals have no soul"

    LOL hahahahaha oh boy. yes....yes, im right-wing and religious....*sigh*.....i cant tell if you are a troll, slightly insane, or just really really simple.....how far did you get in school?

    you said:
    "So what it ALL boils down to Epi is strictly the fact that you personally don’t like the IDEA of sex with animals, and are making up whatever excuses about consent, intelligence, abuse etc etc that you can come up with, without admitting that the real true reason is your personal objection."

    this is absolutely wrong because i have no emotional or learned objection to this. in fact im often the first one to make a positive argument for incest in certain circumstances. im completely cold and devoid of any cultural bias you are trying to blame on my view. once again. all your claims have been refuted already and are now done so by me. im sure you will continue to lurk and post this board so as to feel you have had some form of victory. thats fine. if anything you are great to be here for education in more than one way. first you are a real life example of the people in the dock which im sure some posters would love to learn more about, and second you are a perfect example of what happens when you lack basic critical thinking skills.

    LOL you said:
    "Next I’d expect you to start quoting scriptures when the rest of your “arguments” fail, because the last ditch effort to argue against scientific proof, personal observation and so forth- is to bring a god or holy book into the discussion so that the opposition can only disagree with what you consider to be “perfect” and irrefutable."

    hopefully you know by now im not right wing and i am an atheist. so you wont be seeing any bible verses. however i would like you to quote yourself in any post where you have mentioned ANY "scientific proof" like you are claiming you have presented. lol. i know you are not a logical person but you have to realize everything you have said is saved so it can all be looked over and referenced. be careful what you claim.

  197. Lillyvon

    @Epicurus - honestly, give up now. He will go on and on and on because in his crazy mind having sex with animals is justified. It's like debating with a hard core religious person - because they are delusional it's impossible to bring reason to them at all. Trust me - I was doing the back and fourth with Jigs the animal f!@#$ker and there is no point. He cannot see reason. He's a sick sick person. Just don't trust him to feed your pets when you go on vacation! You'll come back and they will be 'full of jigs'!

  198. jigs

    Epicurus said:

    "if an animal is so capable of defending itself as you seem to like to say how come we have so many in captivity? do they enjoy it? is it their choice?"

    They are for a fact able to defend themselves as well as make known what they like or dislike, captivity of a DOMESTIC pet animal- dog, horse- is a symbiotic relationship, they get food, water, shelter, protection.

    "Scientific proof"?

    What I said exactly, and this is the only post in here that I EVER used that term was when I said this:

    "Next I’d expect you to start quoting scriptures when the rest of your “arguments” fail, because the last ditch effort to argue against scientific proof, personal observation and so forth- is to bring a god or holy book into the discussion so that..."

    I was speaking of religious arguments in general where science has disproven things like the universe revolves around earth every 24 hours, that the earth is round not flat, that there's no Martian canals on mars etc etc.

    I'm not even going to wade through the rest of your post because it's FULL of censored hashes and almost unreadable in parts, and rehashed, go back and re-read my posts frm the beginning, I already refuted and explained all I'm going to do to you, the facts remain that myself, not you is the one who has over 40 YEARS of personal extensive experience with dozens of dogs both male and female, and I know exactly what I speak of when I relate their body language CLEARLY demonstrating their wants and dislikes, along with ACTIVE and proactive sexual responses by which they clearly indicate they enjoy the activities and want it to continue.
    You on the other hand have zero experience with this, none whatsoever, you know nothing about it except what you picked up here or there or someone told you.
    Carrying on a debate with someone like you is like a teacher trying to explain to a 5 year old in primary school that YES, the teacher does know what he or she is talking about and this is the way it "is."

    I have facts and experience, you have inuendo and conjecture along with assumptions, and with that level of incompetence I feel like a doctor arguing with a patient about complex surgical techniques about which they read on a blog.

  199. jigs

    Dont be an armchair rocket scientist like Lillyvon here Epicurus, it just doesn't work well at all.
    In the end it doesn't make any difference what zoo's do with animals when every single other use of animals NEVER involves consent, and many involve the DEATH of said animals solely for human enjoyment, so that whole consent/like children/cant defend themselves argument is a red herring.

    PS Lillyvon: take notice at the bottom where it says this:

    "You are subscribed to this entry. Manage your subscriptions."

    Hit that button and unsubscribe, that's your best course of action!

  200. Lillyvon

    Oh, and Epircurus, see what I mean. Nasty little kitten plugger will not even see reason as to what he is endorsing and doing is so wrong on so many levels of wrong! But good luck!

  201. jigs

    Since we know you "like" little boys ;) maybe it's time for you to hit that unsubscribe button now, it's down on the bottom Lilly, you have nothing to add to the discussion here and are trolling now.
    Go find one of the knitting docs and post there.
    You won't change MY mind on this, but when you actually get your psychiatry degree Lilly, come back and tell us.

  202. chris

    I thought it was a lovely film. I think its wonderful that humans and animals can have sexually heathy relationships. You could just tell that those animals wanted to be made love to!~

  203. jigs

    chris wrote:

    "You could just tell that those animals wanted to be made love to!~"

    Really? you must have been watching a different version of this film than the one I have on DVD, I didn't notice any animal lovemaking, maybe you can tell me which part of the film this was so I can watch it again and see.
    Otherwise, you are right, it IS absolutely wonderful that some humans and some animals can be in tune and share a unique sexual bond with one another.
    Like the doctors say, sex has health and other benefits, and in men it helps clear out the prostate and more. Of course it's medical fact that orgasm causes release of chemicals in the brain that are beneficial, since mammals and humans share the same psysiology and biology then sex is good for them too. All female mammals have a clitorus just like human females do.

  204. Epicurus

    lol good job dismissing my rebuttal to you.

    there is nothing symbiotic about our testing of animals or keeping of livestock.

    the only sense that the livestock could be considered symbiotic is because they lack the cognition to realize we are going to kill and eat them. which supports my point.

    lol i also like your excuse that because i have not had sex with dogs i cant have any knowledge on this subject.

    hahaha good luck with your life. hopefully anyone who thinks to talk to you will see our back and forth and will know you have been completely refuted and you have the critical thinking skills of a 10 year old.

  205. chris

    I thought it was wonderful! just like the time Epicurus and I found a dead horse in a field. We looked at each other thinking the same thing. Epicurus took out his penis handled knife, cut a hole in the animals stomach and then proceeded to make love to the hole while i made love to him. It was wonderful.a bus of school children on their way home got an eyeful (no pun intended!) and certainly lost some of their innocence when they saw Epicurus all bowed up and going at it humping those animal guts! lol it was quite a scene!

  206. renfrew

    wow! THAT IS SICK! you guys did it with a dead animal. WOW. i guess you guys are really into this sort of thing. think i am going to stick to the documentaries and out of the discussions and comments. thats so wrong! i hope you are kidding about the bus of children!

  207. chris

    Yeah it true! Jiggs was there, filming it! we do that stuff all the time. they once choked me unconciouse with a dead snake, stuffed a rock up my leather cherrio, and stuffed a branch up my wiener hole! lol. you should see that tape! lol. all in good fun though. no one was hurt (except for me!)

  208. jigs

    Epicurus

    lol good job dismissing my rebuttal to you."

    Thanks, if you want to call that thing you did a "rebuttal" LOL!!

    "there is nothing symbiotic about our testing of animals or keeping of livestock."

    Did I *SAY* livestock? no, a symbiptic relationship with domestic animals who are pets and companions- usually dogs and horses.

    "the only sense that the livestock could be considered symbiotic is because they lack the cognition to realize we are going to kill and eat them. which supports my point."

    Supports the point you decided to make after not reading my post wherein I did not say livestock are in a symbiotic RELATIONSHIP with humans, they are raised to be killed, that's no symbiotic anything.
    A dog is in a symbiotic RELATIONSHIP with the human owner, the dog gets medical care, food and water at all times, companionship, grooming, parasite removal, vaccinations, safe environment.
    The human gets a companion, a watch dog and much more, that's called a symbiotic relationship where each gains something by it.

    "lol i also like your excuse that because i have not had sex with dogs i cant have any knowledge on this subject."

    I figured you'd laugh, because you don't know what you are talking about, you don't know any more about zoophilia than you know how to do root canals, and you as as qualified to tell me about as the janitor at the local school is qualified to work on the rocket team at NASA. You don't have a clue, experience OR one iota of personal first-hand experience OR witnessed this IN PERSON to even begin to offer an objective opinion.
    When you actually see this in person, and I don't mean watching a p0rn video- then come back.

    "hopefully anyone who thinks to talk to you will see our back and forth and will know you have been completely refuted and you have the critical thinking skills of a 10 year old."

    Well you have the critical thinking skills of a frog, but I digress, you come off as an irrational, hysterical woman who knows zippo about this suject at hand other than a few farmer jokes you heard at a party.
    40+ years experience means I have you beat hands down no matter what you say, I know canine body language and I know how dogs react, you don't.

  209. jigs

    Subject: Consent. An essay, from alt.sex.bestiality Posted in 1995

    "Do animals consent to sex with a human partner?"

    It is a good question. If an animal is consenting to sex with a human, then there are no moral reasons for outlawing bestiality. Can animals willingly choose a human partner?

    Every year, hundreds of millions of animals are killed for food. Cows have milk sucked from their udders by machines, while sheep that are the product of mankind's selective breeding programs have their coats shorn. Even our "pets" are kept purely on our terms: exercised when we have time, locked in cages, trained to conform to our wishes. All the above occurs without thought of the consent of the animal involved. Why should it? After all, they are only dumb animals. But the instant the issue of sex is brought into the equation, consent becomes a key factor. The society I live in will allow me to scratch the belly of my dog as much as I please. The instant my hand moves six inches lower, and scratches the genitals of my dog, I have entered the realms of animal abuse. Suddenly I have become a pervert who is using an animal in a non-consentual manner.

    In this essay, I would like to illustrate two main points:

    1.) An animal DOES consent to sexual activity with a human partner, and this is demonstrable; and 2.) consent is not an issue: the animal actively seeks sexual release with a human partner.

    Demonstrating Consent

    I'm always willing to challenge my own convictions, to test whether what I believe will remain valid under close scrutiny. I devised a test to demonstrate an animal's consenting to sexual activity with me. To help understand the test, I would like to do a brief review of the theory behind training a dog to perform some task: "Sit", "Stay", or "Heel". Training a dog is a relatively simple process; reward is given to the dog for correct behaviour, and depriving the reward (or punishing) is given for incorrect behaviour. The repetition of the training enforces the pleasure of doing what the trainer considers "right", and the pain of doing what is "wrong". Training a dog to "sit" on command provides a good illustration of the training process. Firstly, the trainer says the word "Sit" in a clear, commanding voice. Then he pushes downward on the dog's rear while he pulls back on the dog's lead. The dog is forced to sit, and the trainer praises and rewards the dog. After several repetitions, the dog associates the reward with sitting after hearing the sound "Sit". The dog willingly performs the action without the trainer's having to force the dog's rear down. Later, if the command "Sit" is said, and the dog doesn't comply, the trainer says the word "No" in a threatening voice or uses some other form of punishment for the incorrect behaviour. So the dog has two associations with the sound "Sit": pleasure (reward) at the correct action of sitting, and pain (punishment) for the incorrect action.

    This is the fundamental way to train a dog. If the trainer punishes for correct behaviour, and rewards for incorrect behaviour, the dog will not perform the action correctly after the command is given.

    I have the good fortune of spending my life with two male Great Dane dogs. After their evening meal, I began encouraging one of my dogs to jump up and place his front paws on the roof of his kennel. If he complied with my command, I masturbated him to orgasm while he leaned against the kennel. No other reward or encouragement was given. I didn't even say "Good dog!" when he complied. The action taken if he didn't comply was simply to carry on with the evening's normal routine. The dog wasn't deliberately ignored, he simply received no reward for his actions. Previous to my starting his training, he would have spent several minutes after completing his meal examining his feeding area for any morsels of food that might have escaped his attention. After five evenings, the dog I was training would finish his dinner, and then practically leap onto his kennel without any encouragement from me at all. He would look back at me over his shoulder, wagging his tail. My interpretation of this was his beginning to associate the completion of his meal with the possibility of reward if he placed his paws on the roof of his kennel - and he was rewarded each time he did this with my masturbating him. This didn't really surprise me. What DID surprise me was the reaction of my other male dog after a few more days of this training: my other dog also began to jump up against the kennel after dinner without any training from me! He observed the attention the other dog was receiving, and wanted the same attention, so I rewarded him in the same way. This was sufficient to convince me that my dogs enjoyed being masturbated; and they were showing their consent to the act by their unsolicited jumping up against the kennel.

    Consent becomes an issue only when sex is involved. Dogs will actively seek out sexual activity with a human partner. Does a dog consent to having its stomach scratched when it rolls over? I would like to step back a little here and first illustrate how a dog consents to having its head scratched. How do you know a dog wants you to scratch its head, or whether it is just tolerating the act and humouring you? I can offer consistency of the dog's reaction as one method of explanation.

    Take the head-scratching example. I am certain one of my dogs likes to have his head scratched, by his reaction when I stop. If I put my hand in my pocket, he will force his nose between my arm and my hip, and flick his head sideways to pull my hand out of my pocket. Then he will position his head underneath my hand so all I have to do is flex my fingers and I am scratching his head again. A similar situation occurs when I scratch his belly. While I'm scratching him, he gives little obvious reaction. If I stop, he will practically crawl under my arm and roll over so I can carry on. EXACTLY the same occurs if I scratch his balls instead of his belly. The only difference, therefore, is the social stigma attached to the scratching of dogs' balls. It is socially acceptable to scratch a dog's stomach; it isn't socially acceptable to scratch a dog's balls. The dog cares not a whit, since both sensations are pleasurable to him.

    Similar reactions occur when I extend our playing to masturbating the dog. During our play, my dogs often become sexually aroused. If we stop playing, they will walk and stand in whatever position is the most convenient for me to begin masturbating them. If I put my hand out, palm upwards, one of the dogs will position hinself so his genitals rest in my hand.

    I have been accused in the past of training my dogs to participate in sex with me. If you have ever owned a dog, you may appreciate the fact that while you are training your dog, your dog is often training you. When my dog swats the door with his paw, my reaction is to open it and let him out. I didn't train him to do that, he trained me.

    As one final example of one of my dogs "consenting" to sex, I would like to illustrate what sometimes occurs in the evenings as we are going to sleep. My Danes sleep in my bedroom with me. One in particular likes to sleep on the bed. Occasionally, if I'm tired, I'll try to make him sleep on the sheepskins on the floor with the other dog. Normally he is the quietest of dogs, but when I won't let him onto the bed, he'll wait until I'm dozing off, and then he'll start making a noise that sounds similar to him talking to himself. The sound is a little hard to describe: neither a bark nor a growl, just a quiet vocal sound. Then he'll stand and stare intently at me and the spot on the bed where he would like to be - and snort. If I relent and let him onto the bed, he will settle down quietly and sleep.

    The above example has relevance here because he will display very similar behaviour under one other circumstance. That is: he would like sex (demonstrated by trying to mount the other male dog, and myself). Instead of giving in to his wishes, I have turned off the light and tried to sleep. He makes the same vocal sounds even if he is on the bed, and will often go further and swat me with one of his front paws until I relent.

    I could quote further examples of my dogs' actively seeking sex from me; have you ever tried to say "no" when 130 pounds of Great Dane is pinning your head to the bed with one of his front paws, and is mounting you because you were foolish enough to bend over to tuck the sheets in. . . ?

    Animals can consent to sex with a human partner. I have been able to demonstrate this. Animals can also actively seek out and request sexual release from a human partner. On many occasions I have been on the receiving end of these requests. One final word on consent, before I close. The question of whether animals can consent to inter-species sex is not easy to answer.

    Animals are exploited quite openly by humans; hens are kept in small cages to lay eggs commercially, cows are forced to breed, and be milked, and then are slaughtered for their flesh. There are many cases where animals are used solely for human benefit. I am certain none of the animals involved consented to the treatment they receive. And almost certainly they are getting no pleasure out of it. Yet it is quite socially acceptable to exploit them.

    So I won't recognize condemnation of my sexual activities with animals as valid unless the person condemning me can prove the animal involved is being forced, or is not willing to participate. Also, the person accusing me must have no involvement with exploiting animals in any way himself (including, but not limited to: consuming dairy products, eggs, meat, any vegetables grown in any area where animals have been forced to leave their natural habitats, wearing any woollen or leather clothing, drinking water from a catchment that has caused any animal to be re-located or killed without its consent, walking on woollen carpets, etc. - also using any product from any company whose employees did any of the above.)

  210. Epicurus

    @jiggs

    comparing animals you trick into having cross species relations with pets that we live in symbiosis with is a joke

    also believing that classical conditioning the dog is a sign that the animal enjoys what is happening is also another sign of your lack of critical thought.

    this all boils down to your inability to use logic correctly. i dont even think you realize that the things you are saying are so void of any logic that you are bordering on delusional or psychotic.

    now you said animals arent taken advantage of by humans, your argument is that animals are smart enough to not be, and that they are strong enough to defend themselves....i said why do we have pets and livestock, implying that our captivity of animals IS NOT a symbiotic relationship. now what you do is say you didnt mention livestock....thats great, I did, and im pointing out by using the example of livestock that we are smarter and thus stronger than these animals and have NO PROBLEM controlling them or making them do what we want....making your argument completely null and void.

    now just because you have sex with animals doesnt make you an animal expert. thats like saying a pedophile is a child expert lol. no you just have sex with animals and you use your own lack of logic to pretend that you are reasoning excuses for yourself. you need help. LOL. i cant believe you actually tried to argue from that position...hahahah. how old are you? you have the thought process of a 10 year old!

    how do i sound like an hysterical woman? im looking at this as coldly and logically as possible. at least i am following basic rules.

    btw my area of expertise is in psychology. i am aware of the coginitive functions of dogs as i have used them in a few experiments. my knowledge on the mental development of animals is beyond your experience of sticking your peni5 in a dog.

    i could condition almost any animal to do almost anything i want it to. you think that essay up there has any science in it? you think that is convincing.

    i'll let you in on a little secret. when you want to do something very badly your brain will convince you using any silly logic trick it can that what you are doing is right and that your excuses for it make sense.

    lol you are clearly an old man, and its true you cant teach an old dog new tricks...as long as you realize that what you have done your whole life is no different than having sex with a young child who appeared to enjoy it because they didnt know any better.

    get help. go see a psychologist. you are sick in the head. its not a bad thing. i feel sorry for you.

  211. Vlatko

    @renfrew,

    @chris is joking, although it's a sick joke. Or is it?

  212. jigs

    Your bore me now epicurious, I have more important things to do than run the wagon train around and around with a clueless dork.

  213. jigs

    Now for those interested in this topic and wish to learn more:

    Updated 1/13/10 handout for Second Life and Inworldz

    Zoophilia

    Also known as zoosex, tiersex, often confused with "bestiality" but it is not exactly the same, I will explain the differences.

    Zoophilia: (zoo=animal, + philia=love ) is a deep emotional and even spiritual connection to an animal not unlike a marriage, this can also include various sexual intimacies, but does not have to. The relationship, and intimacies (if any) consist of a caring loving relationship with a chosen animal with a deep bond of love and affection. Where intimacies do happen, it is in the context of non-force, non coersion and shared pleasure.
    This is practiced by a so called "zoosexual" or as I will refer to after this as simply "zoo"

    Bestiality: In contrast, bestiality is practiced by a so called "bestialist," one who uses and abuses an animal like a sex toy with virtual no thought or care whether the animal is harmed, injured, or worse. The animal is usually treated as disposable to various degrees depending on the person. The bestialist is closer to a rapist, and animal abuser. THESE are the ones you sometimes read about in the paper after having been caught in a neighbor's barn after the animal owner noticed their animal had injuries, or the animal was found dead.

  214. jigs

    Pedophilia: Neither bestiality nor zoophilia have anything whatsoever to do with pedophilia or children, the fact remains that most pedophiles are heterosexual males, their aim is strictly towards children, children cannot consent to sex and there are emotional and psychological problems with this abuse.
    Time and again objectors to zoophilia bring of their imagination that this is connected to, or part of child sexual abuse, or that it is a so called warm up crime for later sexual attacks on children of other people, these are total bullshit by emotionally hysterical people who make these connections in their minds.
    Zoophilia is strictly an interest in ANIMALS.

    As we all know, people are GOING to do what they do no matter what, since a person who has a sexual interest in animals is GOING to engage in those acts no matter what, then I feel that person must have complete, factual, honest information and resources to turn to with the ultimate goal being the ANIMAL's welfare and proper care at all times!

    The goal of the information packet in Second Life and in InworldZ grids, is to reach out to the "zoo" minded persons who want to know more, resources, need support, or to talk to like minded, experienced people.

    It will also delve into such topics as correct animal care, veterinary related topics, animal and human health concerns, problem and behavioral problem solving, dog breed selection, temperament and much more.
    It will also explain why bestiality porn should be condemned, and porn sites never visited or patronized in any way.

  215. jigs

    Another goal of this is to try to educate the "bestialist" or would-be "bestialist" to the facts about sentient animals who have the same range of emotions we do, and whom share some 96% of their DNA with humans, and either discourage them from experimenting with animals, or convince them to be more like a "zoo."

    If you came here for this packet, or joined one of the groups hoping to find some "hot sex" or role play, cam sex, phone sex or a d.ick for the evening, I'm afraid you came to the WRONG person and the WRONG place for that, I have no interest in those things. I also will not assist you in finding an animal, or "trying" one out.

    Continued from pg 2

    The first step is to click on the large box here to obtain the complete information packet, this is a work in progress as I find time to put it together, but the latest most updated content will be in the box.

    The packet will eventually contain the following at least:

    General information overview.
    Pages displayed on the wall.
    Male dog guide.
    Female dog guide.
    Mare guide.
    Stallion guide.
    Health issues.
    Laws
    Animal selection and care.
    Can animals consent to sex? How can you tell?
    Dr Miletskis book information & other book resources.
    Suggested web sites.
    Commercial porn: why its bad, why you should avoid it.
    Landmark to this location.

    It is hoped with these resources and guides, the type of person who is inclind to be a bestialist and experimenting with animals as a sex toy, will discover this approach and attitude are totally wrong!

    Animals are NOT fuzzy dildos, never engage them in any sort of BDSM or anal sex type activites!

    It is further hoped the resources presented here will help guide the zoo inclined person into careful consideration of their lifestyle and schedule, ability and willingness to properly own and care for a dog or horse for life no matter what.
    To find a dog or horse that is right for them, and to raise and treat that animal as a partner not a disposable toy.
    Then at some point, if intimacies were to happen, it would be a mutual exploration not something forced or to try out because you saw some porn on the web that gave you the idea.

  216. jigs

    ZOOPHILIA & YOU

    Zoo-sex is hardly something that suits everyone, for the ladies there is no romance, no foreplay or anything of that sort, it's usually slam bang and finished. Is zoo-sex right for you? only you can answer that question for yourself, the facts are too that animals, dogs in particular life far shorter lives than humans, meaning the human can go through the devastating loss of an animal partner several times over their life. On the other hand, owning a dog carries it's own rewards, and if the love and affection grows deeply it can extend into intimacies as a natural extension of that relationship.

    PORN

    Personally I feel porn is stupid, it's subversive and degrading to women as well as animals, the industry uses people and animals up and throws them away, the images and films are staged by actors, it's faked, degrading and it's insulting. When animals are used in porn films, there is abuse involved, the animal is often scared of the cameras and strangers, forced, and then discarded. Woman and huge stallions are the mainstay of a lot of this garbage, along with totally fake "cum" and erections that never arrive or quickly fade if they do. The actresses involved are often drug addicts or complete idiots who clearly have no clue about animals, least of all the stallion tied up to a tree and having his penis that never gets hard played with, don't forget the fake canned horse sounds put in the background. The animals involved are treated as disposable, your consuming this porn helps propagate and encorgage this.

    Porn depicting humans and animals engaged in sex acts is illegal to own, transfer or import, laws vary but you do not want this garbage on your computer,

    DON'T support this industry by purchasing or even downloading porn, DON'T support the porn industry by even visiting their web sites- it gives them per click ad revenue!
    Who wants some fat ugly drug addict/hooker in the same photo with a very erotic looking dog or horse anyway!

  217. jigs

    Points to the work of Australian philosopher Peter Singer, who specialises in ethics and has published papers on the morality of bestiality, writing that sex with animals does not always involve cruelty and can be mutually satisfying.

  218. Epicurus

    lol good call. ignore reason and logic and keep your delusion. like i said. you cant teach an old dog new tricks. you are clearly lost and would only be fixed by extensive therapy. i only hope someone stops you sooner rather than later.

  219. jigs

    You are an imbecile and troll, and know nothing about what you THINK you know.

  220. jigs

    Understanding B.estiality and Zoophillia

    Dr Hani Miletski, M.S.W. PhD
    Psychotherapist & Certified sex therapist
    Published: 2002 ISBN-10: 0971691703 Paperback: 273 pages

    This is a book about people who have sexual relations with animals, a behavior known as "b.estiality," and people (known as "zoos") who are sexually and emotionally attracted to animals, a condition known as "zoophilia." More specifically, this book details my journey conducting a study about b.estiality and zoophila.

    I was intrigued with the idea that there are people who may be sexually attracted to animals, and may even prefer animals as sex partners to humans. I decided to dedicate my doctoral dissertation to this topic and began to study b.estiality and zoophila.

    Chapter 13 repeats and summarizes the answer to the basic research question in the current study - is there a sexual orientation toward animals? The definition of "sexual orientation" was adapted from Francoeur (1991) in his discussion of homosexuality, heterosexuality, and bisexuality. According to this definition, sexual orientation consists of three interrelated aspects: (1) affectional orientation - who or what we bond with emotionally; (2) sexual fantasy orientation - with whom or what we fantasize having sex; and (3) erotic orientation - with whom or what we prefer to have sex.

  221. jigs

    A Contemporary Look at Sex Between Humans and Animals

    Understanding Bestiality & Zoophilia. Hani Miletski. Bethesda, MD: East-West Publishing LLC, 2002, 273 pp.. Paper, $30.00.

    Reviewed by Vern L. Bullough, Ph.D., R.N., 3304 West Sierra Dr., Westlake Village, CA 91362

    This is the best overall survey of b.estiality that I have read. It is based on a doctoral dissertation at the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality in San Francisco, and is one of the few dissertations from that institution to be published. The title itself is important since Miletski, following the work of Mark Matthews (1994), believes there are two general classes of people who have sex with animals: (1) the "b.estialists" who have had one or a few sexual contacts with an animal or use animals when a more "normal" outlet is not available; and (2) the "Zoophiles," individuals who prefer an animal as a sex partner, often forming deep emotional relationships with them. Whereas these definitions are useful for studies of people currently involved in animal relationships and those who can be interviewed, they are not so useful for historical study of such activity, which tends to be confused by use of such terminology as "sodomy," "unnatural acts," and "zooerasty."

  222. Aluzky Irezumi

    @Epicurus

    ?Just correction one thing you said and pointing out a couple of things.

    "sex with animals is wrong because it is an issue of consent"

    ?Humans never ask any animals for consent before using them, the only issue that makes the use of animals wrong is when there is animal abuse and not all sexual acts with animals are abusive.

    ?For example, people around the world do A.I. on dogs, they masturbate the male and female dog till orgasm as part of the A.I. proses. Masturbating animals is one example of a sexual activity that humans can do to animals that is ethical and legal.

    "the human is in a position of dominance due to their higher cognition"

    ?Humans are always in a position of dominance when compared to animal. So what is your point? That humans shouldn't use animals for anything because we are too powerful?

    "also believing that classical conditioning the dog is a sign that the animal enjoys"

    ?Some dogs like sex with humans and they enjoy and look to have sex because of operant conditioning. These dogs do not need any training at all. In operant conditioning the dog rewards himself from doing a behabior, the dog will remember the pleasure (that is the reward) that he/she got from doing a behabior and will seek to repeat it out of his free will when ever he/she feels like doing so.

    ?Operant conditioning is the reason why some dogs learn by themselves to masturbate themselves or by using objects or by using humans or other animals. There is nothing unethical or illegal about doing this as long the animal is not harmed in any way. If it is legal to let Fido fuck his bed, why would it be illegal to let Fido fuck his owner?

    ?Some dogs do not like or dislike sex with humans (they are neutral about it) A human may chose to use classic conditioning to make the dog perform sexual acts. The dog will love the reward that is making a neutral behabior into a positive behabior (not necessarily enjoys the sexual act) Though if the sex act is pleasureful for the dog, he/she may not need the reward anymore as the dog will be getting the reward from the action and operant conditioning will make sure that the dog repeats the action over and over when the dog feels like in the mood of getting some pleasure. There is nothing unethical or illegal about doing this as long as there is no animal abuse involved.

    ?Some dogs dislike sex with humans. Training a dog to do something that he/she dislike is normally WRONG, is only GOOD if the benefits for the dogs are bigger than the risks of not training the dog. Like when a dog dislikes and attacks humans, it is beneficial for the dog to train him to like humans than leave him as an aggressive dog. That being said, there are no risk if a dog dislikes sex with humans so training a dog that dislikes zoosex would be unethical and animal abuse.

    Some things about me so you don't have to assume stuff: I'm a zoosexual, my IQ is above 140, I have talked to psychologists before and I'm not mentally ill, I'm an apathetic agnostic, utilitarian, animal/zoosexual rights activist and specially a dog lover,I know a lot about a dogs, I do not support rape or animal abuse, English not my main language and I love to read about psychology and sexology, specially when is about sexual minorities, paraphilias and fetishes.

  223. reprovo

    There's a natural urge for the male and female of the same species to want to procreate.That's where the main feeling of lust and love come from.When someone becomes perverted In his soul , he strays from the natural course of things and does things which have absolutely no logic.For example sticking your penis In another mans anus.If you stray a lot furthur than that than you do the unthinkable to most human beings.To have sex with an animal.
    Unfortunately In this messed up world It's deemed normal to be gay and so the logical progression of that Is that It will eventually be "normal" to have sex with animals and from there on the sky's the limit.

  224. Epicurus

    @Aluzky.

    yes humans are in a position of dominance over animals and that we should be very aware of that and very careful about how we use that power. just like a boss over his employee. there are reasons they are not allowed to date or have sex either.

    you say humans never ask for consent when using them...okay...that doesnt make it right. just because we do something wrong somewhere else doesnt mean we ought to do more wrong later on down the line. and that is kind of what you are excusing with that line of argument.

    you say some dogs actually like to have sex with humans. sure because its a dog! it doesnt have the cognition to understand its actions completely, especially when it comes to mating with another species. you might as well go to the hospital and diddle people in comas....jus because they get aroused doesnt mean its the right thing to do. hey if you let a dog do what it wants it would run around your house eating chocolate which would ultimately kill it. dont pretend these animals have the same cognition thus the same ability to make correct decisions like we do.

    once again you are anthropomorphizing these animals to make an excuse as to why you want to and ought to be allowed to have sex with them. this is no difference than the arguments put forth by a hebephilia, someone who wants to have sex with teenagers.

    when did you get your IQ tested? where was it done? why was it done? and which IQ test was it? If the reports of people are right then the average IQ must be around 130 since everyone likes to claim they are right around the number that labels them a genius or in the 1% range of society.

    lets take a child. a child might not like or dislike sex with an adult. however through conditioning you could reward that act and condition the child to enjoy sex with its elder....does that make it right? why is not right for children but in your mind right for an animal? do you honestly believe a dog has a better understanding of the world than say a 15 year old child? is there an age limit for animals? or could you begin having sex with an animal no matter what age? if there is an age limit how did you discern that age? how do you know when a dog reaches a mental mature age where it can decide to have sex with a human?

    im glad you like to read a little psychology but i have my Bsc in psychology and am getting my masters in evolutionary psychology. i dont think you are honestly thinking about this from an unbiased view.

  225. Guest

    Epicurus said:

    "jus because they get aroused doesnt mean its the right thing to do. hey if you let a dog do what it wants it would run around your house eating chocolate which would ultimately kill it. "

    Sex doesnt kill or injure the dog, it's part of their biological NEEDS. Whether it's "right" or not is entirely a HUMAN subjective entity that doesn't make one bit of difference to the animal.

    Epicurus said:

    "lets take a child. a child might not like or dislike sex with an adult. however through conditioning"

    Bzzzt lost the argument yet again, no, let's NOT take a child as red herring example- this is an ANIMAL not a fuzzy 5 year old child, you keep bringing in children to your "arguments" because of your obsession with them and attempts to add drama and emotionalism.

    Epicurus said:

    "you might as well go to the hospital and diddle people in comas....jus because they get aroused doesnt mean its the right thing to do."

    You keep coming up with this gargabe don't you? children, people in comas, what's next? handicapped and black people? did you know that once not long ago a white man sleeping with a black woman was considered the same as b.estiality, but the times and laws CHANGED for the better, as they will eventually with zoophilia.
    If the dog or animal gets aroused, GREAT! then it would be cruel to just walk away and leave them like that.

    Epicurus said:

    "you say humans never ask for consent when using them...okay...that doesnt make it right. just because we do something wrong somewhere else doesnt mean we ought to do more wrong later on down the line. "

    BWHAHAHA!!!!! better keep working on that alleged degree you claimed you are working on.

    Epicurus said:

    "how do you know when a dog reaches a mental mature age where it can decide to have sex with a human?"

    When that dog grabs hold of you and is erect, trying to poke you, that's a pretty good indicator the dog is READY. Dogs mature by a year of age, males already produce sperm and females can get pregnant, thats about the only criteria for sexual maturity animals need or go by- nature's way.

  226. Guest

    SInce the majority of people do not have sex these days strictly to produce babies, it doesn't MATTER what you do to have fun, if 2 guys want to blow each other, hey, go for it, doesn't matter, they know what they want, not up to me or anyone else to tell them what to do in private.
    The worser thing is the dire overpopulation problem along with it's environmental degregation, we NEED more non procreative sex and a lot less of the kind that produces ACCIDENTS.
    Go do some research, there's many cultures pre xtain era who engaged in sex with animals and all kinds of sex- the Greeks for example, and all the erotic art removed from Pompei, INCLUDING a marble carving hinting at b.estiality.
    There's even a temple with erotic carvings on it, at least a few of them depict sex with a horse.

  227. POZZIMYSTIC

    in WA state where I live and this happened they had to pass a law ( after the this incident ) protecting animals from people like this: so now Any sense gratification from an animal ( larger than you ) Ie. petting a horse was cited as within the restrictions as one possible interpretations of the law! beastiality is as old as life itself, with that said this boeing engineer " raped this horse" ( my words here) and personnally i think he got what he deserved! You know what they say " once you go Horse, you never come back" lol what a stupid man!

  228. Guest

    Just one problem dude, that law doesn't do a damn thing to "protect" animals, bestiality will continue in your state as it always has. The only reason the law was passed was a knee-jerk reaction to the incident where the guy involved happened to die, that's extremely rare, it simply doesn't happen. Plenty of people are injured and killed in rodeos. plenty more are attacked and bit by dogs, but you never hear of a person being killed the way this clown was.

    The law was never about protecting animals, if it was they'd outlaw animal confinements, rodeos, and meat packing plants, no, this law was a knee- jerk xtian over reaction to the idea of sex with animals happening and no law to stop what they don't LIKE.
    Even with this law the guy would still be dead, the horse wasn't harmed at all, to him this guy was just another in a line of mares.
    You got it backwards, the horse was doing the MAN, pretty hard to "rape" a 1500# stallion when it's you half nude under him and he has 24" of tool trying to find a home!

    I can tell you with 100% certainty that bestiality is going on right now in your state every day, there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it and the law cant do anything about it either - only idiots do it where they could be seen or filmed, only idiots play with a stallion while drunk.

    Now that I think of it, the law's specific language defined animals as "either living OR DEAD", my emphasis with caps, that gives away the true intent and purpose of the law is NOT about animals, for the simple reason that DEAD animals cant be "abused" yet the law covers dead animals in the states where it passed LOL.

    What the law WILL do however I can tell you right now what the dingbats in the legislature didnt think about when they passed this garbage- now that someone faces jail time, do ya think ANYONE will ever trust taking an animal NOW to a veterinarian for treatement of anything that involves the genitals?
    Think anyone would risk being accused of bestiality with a female dog just because she happens to have a urinary tract infection and is owned by a single man? The more likely scenario NOW is, if on the rare occasion an animal were to be injured or developed a vaginal or urinary infection or issue, the animal mor elikely will either be abandoned or KILLED to avoid any possibility of being charged with something.
    Great going! we'll never know how many animals now will be secretly abandoned or killed and buried directly because of this law, but oh, this law "protects" animals LOL!!!!

  229. POZZIMYSTIC

    I agree with you! I just find the whole issue rather disturbing! Weird
    things happen in WA state this is just a another one of them. To each his or
    her own I guess
    Larry
    ps. The word rape in that comment was the best word I could come up with, I
    still can't think of a better word. Plz note this sick conversation Ends Now

  230. Guest

    POZZIMYSTIC wrote:
    I agree with you! I just find the whole issue rather disturbing! Weird things happen"

    Ok, well all I can add to that is, hopefully you now see the drawbacks of knee-jerk feel-good legislation and the consequences that can occur as a result of ramming this though.
    HAD they simply worded it in such a way that creates a penalty for causing visible injuries, then I think a majority of zoos would even have supported that.

  231. jennirn2005

    This doc was annoying. I'm not even gonna comment on the subject matter. I couldn't even finish it. It seemse disjointed and hard to follow. Lets be honest the people werent particularly likeable.

  232. Epicurus

    you said sex doesnt kill the dog...that wasnt my point in drawing a parallel to the chocolate example. the point was that a dog is not as smart as you keep trying to say it is. they are NOT a moral agent.

    sorry i can use a child because a child IS an animal. the child might even have more ability to be self aware and make moral decisions than the dogs. your attempt to then just say i keep bringing them up because im obsessed with them shows you are failing in your arguments and attempting to make this personal. its sad.

    and yes the people in comas are also perfect examples. you cant just say those cannot be used as an analogy without explaining why you feel the analogy is false. you didnt get too far in school did you?

    just laughing also proves you either dont understand what i said or you have no way to rebuke it. please if you are going to hold a position at least be able to argue for it like a responsible intelligent adult and not a child on the internet.

    so when a dog tries to hump you and is erect that is a good sign it is read? however if a teenager does that to an adult the adult must say no? of course you dont like to compare animals to humans because when you do it ruins your position.

    you are sad and argue like a child.

  233. Guest

    Bzzzt lost the argument yet again, no, let's NOT take a child as red herring example- this is an ANIMAL not a fuzzy 5 year old child, you keep bringing in children to your "arguments" because of your obsession with them and attempts to add drama and emotionalism.

    "and yes the people in comas are also perfect examples. you cant just say those cannot be used as an analogy without explaining why you feel the analogy is false."

    Perfect examples or moronic way of thinking I'd say, a dog is not a person in a COMA, you can't even get that right either, they are not even remotely similar. So we have firmly established you cant tell the difference between a child, a person in a coma, and a horny dog, thanks, but your circular "arguments" are laughable, more so when I't obvious you have no experience or knowlege in this area of expertise, while I have more than 40 years experience.
    So sit back hon, click on the index list of documentaries here and go find one more to your liking that you know more than 2 words about,like knitting or crochet, and leave the technical, medical and sexuality things to those of us who have EXPERIENCE and know how to read a dog's body language.

  234. Guest

    Other than the dead guy who actually had a very good JOB as a Boeing engineer- the people involved in that were in my opinion
    losers, porn mongers and worse, they were not what I consider to be real zoos.

  235. over the edge

    @jigs
    i have been following the discussion since it started and i have had enough. i think that epicurus arguments are all valid but you dismiss them because you have no other answer. next you used Vern L Bullough's review as evidence but you apparently forgot the last of the quote so i will post it now "The investigation of the topic is complicated further still by the fact that many of the existing reports and studies should be classified more as pseudo-science than serious research. As far as data on actual numbers involved, Kinsey's research is probably the most objective attempt to define the extent of the practice, although Miletski believes Morton Hunt's (1974) study was helpful. Unfortunately little survey data on the topic exists since those earlier works.

    All of this discussion is by way of introduction to Miletski's own study, which is based on detailed responses from 82 men and 11 women to a mailed questionnaire. The average age of the men was 38 years (range = 19-78, median = 37) and of the women 36 (range = 21-48, median = 35)." so the study was not stated as "random" and only 93 responses were used. before you ask no i haven't read the book as i cannot find it free online and there is no way i will spend $30 based on your say so. then you go on to say"I can tell you with 100% certainty that bestiality is going on right now in your state every day, there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it and the law cant do anything about it either" so what you are saying is that if someone chooses to break the law (any law) it is ok as long as they don't get caught? next "leave the technical, medical and sexuality things to those of us who have EXPERIENCE " stating that your years of experience in breaking the law means you should have the authority to decide what is right or wrong? so pedo's should have the say on what is right for children, use serial killers to make the murder laws and so on? society has decided what you are doing is wrong and laws were passed to try to stop you. your choices are change the law, follow the law or be a criminal simple as that. lastly to say because the animals don't fight back is a sign of consent the obvious response is that many rape victims don't fight back but that still isn't consent. now i know i will get the don't compare animals to people argument so save it. i have two retired sled dogs if they wanted to they could rip me apart but they allow me to put them on leashes scold them (not physically) choose when they eat and if i wanted to i could put a gun to their head and shoot them (never would) all the while they would wag their tails and follow my lead. none of those things were their choice and it is not consent.

  236. His Forever

    I agree.

  237. Epicurus

    a child is like an animal when it comes to cognitive ability, in fact a child is smarter than an animal.

    if your argument to have sex with an animal is because it is aroused then the analogy of having sex with someone in a coma just because they get an erection is apt. it is not my fault if your feeble mind cant handle this.

    what argument have i made that is circular and how is it circular? if you can quote that for me here that would be great.

    now your argument is that because i havent fucked an animal i dont have the experience to talk about this?

    there is no way you are an adult....how could you have gotten this far in life without accidentally dying of stupidity?

    you have not once shown how you are "technical or medical" minded. sexual yes. but a sexual pathology. you are sick like someone attracted to children and you need professional help. your inability to even formulate a coherent argument for yourself should be your first sign to rethink your position or get help for this.

    sorry grandpa, im not some brain dead knee jerking emotional girl. I actually have a brain and have made you look like a retard.

  238. The101Truth

    Sick f***s who need serious therapy.

  239. eyecandy_babydoll

    omg this film is so boring, prolonged and trying to turn a nasty subject into something artsy. Still distasteful.

  240. eyecandy_babydoll

    omg this film is so boring, prolonged and trying to turn a nasty subject into something artsy. Still distasteful.

  241. Christopher Ryan

    Very boring, I agree, and the endless shots of night sky and dusk/dawn light play is dull. Shots of people's still faces in shadow ... dullsville! And I don't get what the warning was for; is this what counts as explicit in Barbie-Town? I didn't WANT explicit but I also didn't want endless establishment shots with a misdirected warning label. There should be a warning against utter boredom and an unnecessarily long narrative devoid of content.

    Also, these are not very clever people. The justification "talking ... mammal to mammal" is so obviously illogical and inane ... not all mammals talk, and interspecies communication is a very complex issue, given that intraspecies communication fails most of the time in Homo sapiens sapiens, anyway.

  242. Christopher Ryan

    Very boring, I agree, and the endless shots of night sky and dusk/dawn light play is dull. Shots of people's still faces in shadow ... dullsville! And I don't get what the warning was for; is this what counts as explicit in Barbie-Town? I didn't WANT explicit but I also didn't want endless establishment shots with a misdirected warning label. There should be a warning against utter boredom and an unnecessarily long narrative devoid of content.

    Also, these are not very clever people. The justification "talking ... mammal to mammal" is so obviously illogical and inane ... not all mammals talk, and interspecies communication is a very complex issue, given that intraspecies communication fails most of the time in Homo sapiens sapiens, anyway.

  243. Guest

    Posted by over the edge
    @jigs
    i have been following the discussion since it started and i have had enough. i think that"

    Nice try Epi.

    I gave reams of answers, evidence, studies and more, short of providing an IN-HOME demonstration with a dog Ive never met before- proving I'm 100% right, I don't know what more you want out of me on this, either do the leg work and learn about zoophilia from those who PRACTICE IT daily in their lives, or get lost, it's as simple as that! Because at the end of the day it does not matter what you or anyone else THINKS about it, it's GOING to happen whether you want it to or not.

    "next you used Vern L Bullough's review as evidence but you apparently forgot the last of the quote so i will post it now"
    "although Miletski believes Morton Hunt's (1974) study was helpful. Unfortunately little survey data on the topic exists since those earlier works."

    I did not use Bullough's review as "evidence" I used it to describe the BOOK, it was after all a BOOK REVIEW, or did you miss that?

    "All of this discussion is by way of introduction to Miletski's own study, which is based on detailed responses from 82 men and 11 women to a mailed questionnaire. "

    Miletski's research and book says as much, your point? we're talking about a SMALL number of practitioners percentage wise compared to the 308 million people in this country, and 99.9999% of them do NOT want anyone to know what they do in private, many of them may be married- a lot of zoos ARE, so right from the get-go Miletski was lucky to even FIND 100 zoos even willing to come forward and give this total stranger their contact information.

    Miletski also by the way... went met, and stayed with a group of those in this study in person and also met their animals and watched them interact as animal owners, but gee, I guess you didn't read the *BOOK*, so you didn't know that, huh.

    " so the study was not stated as "random" and only 93 responses were used."

    Not stated as random? where did that come from? why would you think that matters in so small a study group? The participants in the study WERE random: random zoophiles who chose to participate- not randomly chosen people off the street or on the bus, which would be rather useless when trying to learn about zoophilia from those who actually practice it, don't you think!

    93 is how many were in the study after Miletski screened the respondents and weeded out any who were not real zoophiles, who were playing games or only considered it a fetish they dabbled in. She wanted those who considered it a lifestyle and orientation they had all their lives- the ones best qualified, and to have done self- examinations on WHY they preferred animals.

    Miletski is only one of several researchers who conducted studies, she just happens to have published her book and is a licensed sex therapist, as well as highly respected in her field. Andrea Beetz in Germany conducted a much larger more complex study using extensive standard psychological questionnaires, Drs Weinberg and Collins in Indiana also did a study.

    "before you ask no i haven't read the book as i cannot find it free online and there is no way i will spend $30 based on your say so. "

    You will never find a book like this free on-line, there is an electronic version of it on her web site for $11 and there are USED copies on Amazon, but if you wont do the work to learn, then NOTHING I tell you or provide in text here is going to make any difference and Im just wasting my time responding to you.

    "then you go on to say"I can tell you with 100% certainty that bestiality is going on right now in your state every day, there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it and the law cant do anything about it either" so what you are saying is that if someone chooses to break the law (any law) it is ok as long as they don't get caught? "

    What I SAID was a fact: sex with animals is going on, has gone on, will continue to go on and you can stomp your feet and get outraged as you wish, and even help pass more laws, but at the end of the day none of that matters one iota because nothing will prevent or stop consentual non forced sexual acts conducted in private behind locked doors with an animal. Get used to the idea that laws are not the be all to end all, not the ultimate authority and they are flawed, subject to the whims of the moment and politics.
    This has nothing to do with other laws regarding person to person violence, arson, rape, handicapped people, nursing home residents, or your favorites- children and killers that you keep bringing up for examples. The fact does remain however, that a law is useless when it is directed at private activities conducted in a private residence with locked doors and shut windows that have NO witnesses. You let me know how the law can charge someone with a crime no one has witnessed, that has no evidence such as photos or videos made, and which those involved don't tell others about- would be a neat trick, maybe Govt spy cams hidden in every person's ID card, or in an implant might accomplish it someday.

    In the past history it carried the DEATH PENALTY and that didn't prevent or stop it. Google: Thomas Granger bestiality, in 1642 they even executed this 16 year old boy and all the animals they thought he had contact with. Guess what, even after Granger was executed, people still had sex with animals and still do.

    It is against the law to jaywalk the street, people do it all the time, most of the time cops don't even bother issuing a ticket. People speed over the limit all the time, again, laws do not prevent anything, laws only do their work AFTER the fact, and if they are enforced.
    Suicide is a crime too, but if you are dead I don't think you will spend jail time for it.

    "next "leave the technical, medical and sexuality things to those of us who have EXPERIENCE " stating that your years of experience in breaking the law means you should have the authority to decide what is right or wrong? "

    How dramatic, bestiality is NOT a crime in every state, nor it is a crime everywhere.
    Those who practice the non harmful zoophilia every day all their lives are the BEST QUALIFIED to judge dog body language and behavior, and to read what a dog is "saying", those who read blurbs in the news, who never heard of this beyond old farmer and the sheep jokes are in NO WAY qualified to even comment on this, doing so is like you trying to tell your doctor how to do chest xrays, or your heart surgeon how to do surgery- puhlease- you wouldn't even be qualified to plug the doctor's desk lamp in let alone have the audacity to tell him you know all about heart surgery and his techniques are all wrong.
    You are doing the exact same thing HERE.

    "so pedo's should..."
    "so serial killers should..."

    Irrelevant, drama, BS and I'm not even going to bother with that, when someone resorts to constantly bringing CHILDREN into this issue, they have LOST the argument and are resporting to emotional irrelevant drama to change the course of the discussion into children.
    Its already proven time and again, children are HARMED and scarred emotionally and physically by such acts, THAT is why its a crime, same as burglary, armed robbery or arson- these all affect other people negatively to the extreme.

    "lastly to say because the animals don't fight back is a sign of consent the obvious response is that many rape victims don't fight back but that still isn't consent. now i know i will get the don't compare animals to people argument so save it."

    No, I certainly WON'T "save it", you make a claim there based on hysterics and emotionalism with a smattering of unrelated drama again. Rape victims are NOT animals, animals do not have the same emotional baggage, morals, religion, relationships people do. A woman who is RAPED will know, worry and dwell on the fact she may contract a fatal disease- HIV, or get pregnant, her religion may FORBID abortion and now she is stuck with a damnable baby she never wanted to remind her of the rape forever, she may be married and her relationship destroyed due to the rape.
    She may find her name and details in the newspapers and know people around her are staring at her when she passes, gossiping behind her back. She may have to go thru the trauma of a lineup and court trials, testimony and knowing the rapist will get out and may come after her for ratting on him, maybe the rapist is her boss or a family member, and now she is out of the job and has no work reference to get a new one.

    NONE of these things apply to an animal, animals go strictly by their feelings and reactions to things in the environment, PAIN causes fear, distress and movement AWAY from it, even if it means biting or running.
    A wild animal caught in a steel leg trap will often CHEW their leg off to escape the pain.
    Pleasure is also recognized by animals and they seek out pleasurable things, so again class:

    Pain and fear cause an animal distress and to move AWAY from the source of it.
    Pleasure can cause an animal to seek it out and dwell around it, and return for more.

    "i have two retired sled dogs if they wanted to they could rip me apart but they allow me to put them on leashes scold them (not physically) choose when they eat and if i wanted to i could put a gun to their head and shoot them (never would) all the while they would wag their tails and follow my lead. none of those things were their choice and it is not consent."

    The fact the dogs LET you put collars on them IS consent, if they didn't consent to you putting collars on them and they didn't want them on, then you could very well have several puncture scars on your hand today.
    Dogs have no concept of death or guns, placing a gun to a dog's head is a useless example, instead, get the NAIL CLIPPERS out and probably 90% of the dogs you try it on will try to get away from them, especially if a careless owner accidentally hit the "quick", and we've ALL done that, even professional groomers.
    I have a 120# dog who absolutely does NOT like his toenails clipped, Ive had to literally lay on top of this dog in a bear hug holding him down so I could clip the nails. I carefully avoid the quick but he CLEARLY does not like his nails cut and will do anything short of aggression or biting to avoid having them cut. Treats and all the other techniques to try to do it the easy way never worked, so it's either snip a nail one at a time when I can catch him asleep and can clip one fast, or bear-hug on the floor and clip all the fronts then the rears another time.

    Yup, I can and have to physically FORCE the dog to have his nails cut, it is physically IMPOSSIBLE to force a 120# dog to get an erection and mount naked vulnerable you, it is impossible to make a dog do that if they dont want to, or it causes fear, pain or worry.

    You on the other hand are assuming by your arguments that force is used by a zoo, but then you have no proof of that, and that is where your argument falls flat from the start. A person who FORCES sex on an animal is technically NOT a "zoophile" they are a bestialist or a zoo-sadist, the use of force or restraints totally precludes and eliminates the use of the dictionary and medical term: zooPHILE!

  244. Guest

    "society has decided what you are doing is wrong and laws were passed to "

    Dont forget that as late as the 1950's it was the LAW that "colored" people had to ride in the BACK of the bus, and even the women had to give up their seat for a white. It was the LAW that businesses had to be closed on Sunday- Sunday blue laws remember those?
    It was the LAW that gay people's activities were a crime they could be arrested for.
    A "colored' person having a sexual relation with a white in those days was considered bestiaIity, inter-racial marriage was too.

    Yes, society sure knows a good thing!

    Society doesnt think things through very clearly and is not only prone to knee-jerk reactional emotional law writing, but to reversing laws based on one lawsuit.
    So I guess "colored" people's choices back in the pre 50's days were, get arrested or killed for LWB (living while black) follow the law and be good little slaves and later- bus station shoe shiners who dont give no trouble to the mastahs, or just HWB ( hide out while black ) and keep a low profile.

    Yes, society sure knows a good thing!

    Too bad this same society who claims to be sooo concerned and watching out for ANIMAL welfare- doesnt outlaw the brutal miserable lives and subsequent murder of animals for the luxury of the consumption of things we don't need, like: MEAT, EGGS, CHEESE, LEATHER, PREMARIN made from the urine of mares forced to stand with a collection bag to catch urine the drug is made from.

    Too bad this same "concerned" society doesn't outlaw the brutal so called "sport" HUNTING, TRAPPING and MURDER of our wildlife, much of which was started for the LIVESTOCK industry who demanded wolves, coyotes, foxes and any other animal that remotely even threatened or cost them a cent be ERADICATED at taxpayer expense with poisons, gassing, burning, shooting, trapping.

    When these things are outlawed, then society can speak on zoophilia, till then, the hypocritical society hasnt a leg to stand on when they claim they are looking out for ANIMALS by outlawing zoophilia. Sorry but that hypocracy of it's LEGAL to kill animals for SPORT, but you cant have sex with one who is not restrained in any way and is actively participating- doesn't wash!

    The fact that some of the states with laws on the books use the description of animals as being "...either living, or DEAD" also gives it away, a dead animal feels no pain and cant be abused! BZZZTT!!!

    Other descriptors such as found in New England states as :

    "Despicable and detestable crimes against NATURE"

    ...gives that away as strictly RELIGIOUS dogma having nothing to do with animal WELFARE at all, BZZZT!! religion and religious beliefs have no place in a court of law.

    Also, since "nature" can't testify in a court of law, and cant swear or be cross-examined by the accused who has the right to confront the accuser, it's a stupid law that cant be upheld, or justified.

  245. Jo McKay

    I agree this is not so shocking in light of the incessant curiosity and sexual hang ups of human beings. Clearly if you build emotional ties to an animal (like these horses) then run around naked in front of a stallion, offering your a**, chances are... (I thought it was sheep who had to most watch out for 'hungry' men?). Anyway, my biggest problem, in this example is not whether the animal 'consented' or was 'harmed' (hard to answer that one), but is this: when generally wild animals begin to see humans as a food source (feeding them in National Parks as example) then they become unpredictable and potentially dangerous to humans - so what happens when an animal (other than human) begins to see humans as potential sex partners? I submit they also become unpredictable and potentially dangerous, and worse, maybe 'new' predators. I'd say we have more than enough predators to worry about. - Next biggest problem I have is with sexual curiosity itself, which, of course is very normal. However, think it through people - 'really' think it through - and if the 'fantasy' doesn't involve consenting adults, who are mentally & emotionally healthy then DONT do it! If not intellectually mature enough to manage those 'thoughts' then fine, buy a dam doll; I don't care if it's a horse doll, a great Dane or a Barbie - just leave the breathing living alone!

  246. Guest

    If what you theorize:

    "so what happens when an animal (other than human) begins to see humans as potential sex partners? I submit they also become unpredictable and potentially dangerous, and worse, maybe 'new' predators"

    was valid, then every zoophile would have been attacked, as would family and visitors to their home. Fact is, every dog ATTACK we all read about in the news, or attack on a kid is an act of fear biting or aggression not sex motivated.
    Stallions are unpredictable anyway, people have been killed by spooked horses- including tour carriage horses spooking and running, causing the carriage to be smashed to pieces and killing the occupants or driver.
    A stallion used to sex with a human may start trying to mount people, which could cause someone to fall down or be injured, but then people who work around horses already know they are unpredictable and prone to nipping, biting, kicking for no reason, or spooking and running suddenly as if gone mad because a leaf on the ground moved from the wind, and they take great care and watch their horse with an eye behind their head.

    Dogs have and can kill people, as the two Presa Canario dogs in California: Bane and Herra who killed a woman, attest. Their owner was unable to physically control them, appeared to have encouraged aggression in these dogs and was a lousy owner.

    But I have never heard of a zoophile being killed by an animal, or attacked and injured, certainly not to any greater statistical degree than the general public who owns animals like horses, we would have heard about a large number of animal SEX related attacks and humans with rectal and vaginal injuries, and we don't. Typically we read about a kid bit in the face or mauled, or someone's hands torn up trying to break up a a dog fight.

  247. Guest

    "Very boring, I agree, and the endless shots of night sky and dusk/dawn light play is dull."

    It was free to watch, don't complain you got what you paid for.

    "The justification "talking ... mammal to mammal" is so obviously illogical and inane ... not all mammals talk"

    It was a reference to BODY LANGUAGE not speech, only humans "talk" with words, animals talk with sounds, expressions and body language.

  248. Guest

    "The Old Testament is quite clear on the matter"

    The OLD testiment doesn't matter, it's ONE religious belief and does not superceed the thousands of other religions and beliefs on planet earth.

    “It’s just bs that we haven’t changed the legislation yet,” she frankly states. “The animals don’t have a say – no one knows [whether or not they consent].”

    I think it's bs that people like her make these ridiculous connections to "consent", especially while munching on a HAMBURGER, and especially since absolutely nothing humans do to animals has EVER been with any kind of "consent", so why start now with an inoculous thing like SEX? How about we outlaw sport hunting and meat eating- both of which are useless human activities that 100% of the time always result in pain, torture and DEATH.

    I think it's laughable how people cite a 700kg mare is somehow "abused" or "injured" by Johnny's little 15cm wonder pickle going into her- an animal built to accomodate a penis the size of a man's ARM! Or that veterinaray surgeons and breeders routinely put their gloved arm in mare's to do an artificial insemination procedure, and no one thinks that is somehow going to abuse or injure her!

    "The nation’s [ Sweden] Penal Code of 1864 outlawed any “fornication against nature,”

    You cant have a law today that claims "nature" is a victim since you can't cross-examine "nature" and "nature" is not a person who can take the oath and testify in court.

    What people fail to keep in mind is, even though bestiality once carried the death penalty, laws will do absolutely NOTHING to stop it, it's feel-good useless religious based claptrap that is a waste of legislature and court time. Those who actually ABUSE an animal and cause INJURIES should be charged with already existing laws against animal abuse.

    What a law against b.estiality does however is create a whole new scene where it will cause the death and neglect of animals as a result, for if for ANY reason an animal happened to be injured by accident, or if an animal is THOUGHT to have a sexual related infection or something, that animal will be KILLED or negelected ratehr than the owner risking arrest by taking it in for treatment.
    Gee, I guess no one ever thought of THAT huh?

    Thing is, law or no law, sex with animals will continue as it always has, it's impossible to prosecute something that occurs behind closed and locked doors with no witnesses.
    The only thing that should be outlawed is the subversive and abusive PORN.

  249. OccultAlien

    this doco would bore the a**hole out of a wooden horse.

  250. OccultAlien

    this doco would bore the a$$hole out of a wooden horse

  251. Wayne Sanchez

    This is a film best used for workers in the psychology field, psych majors, other people with this sexual/mental disorder, and especially people close to those suffering, to get an opportunity to understand this sickness better; to get a glimpse into the nature of such a taboo subject is actually a great gift for healing. That is true despite the fact that the majority of people who see this film will not be able to get past their tendency towards judgment to understand that gift. It is useful towards that end, healing, and I'm sure the makers of the film did not intend it for any other reason, certainly not titillation - and their lack of an attempt to try to make the film's storyline more interesting and exciting than it actually was and only for some highly critical, mostly ignorant audience... who the subject matter was not really intended for in the first place... lends the documentary nature of the film all of its integrity.

    I mean come on people, really...
    Are all you posters who are criticizing this film for being boring so brainwashed like robots to believe that you should be entertained in every single moment of your waking day, or else you are entitled to attack all that which doesn't please you? Are you endorphin addicts or what? The habitual tendencies of the consumerist nature of our contemporary culture has got you mindlessly seeking out immediate gratification in everything - everywhere?

    Disconnect. Maybe try turning off your TVs and PCs for a while and going out of doors to enjoy some fresh air... maybe that would help you regain control of your mind... just watch out for any "frisky fillies" sneaking up on you.

    Highly related to the subject matter of this film, by the way, is how the majority suffers by its tendency to love their dogs and cats more than their neighbors, their fellow human beings; that phenomenon is also unnatrual and a terrible sickness in this overpopulated and overmedicated society (over stimulated by the fear inducing drug of the media) that hardly anyone is capable of understanding - if it drives wider separation, growing distrust, and then further isolation between most human beings it is a disease, not at all unlike leprosy. The tendency to love other creatures more than you do your own species is a global mafunction - it has a lot to do with distrust of the other (other ambiguously understood groups), rejection, abandonment issues from parents and other authority figures, such as He who shall remain unnamed by me now...oh what the hell, "God!" - People don't know how to handle being abandoned by God, and then suffer varyingly similar abandonments issues across the lifespan and then come to distrust most all other people who don't look, think, talk, and act like you (except for, as this film illustrates, only other folks with similar psychological, physical and even spiritual outlooks and dysfunctions to ourselves... it is those types who we may allow ourselves to attach ourselves to emotionally, instead of trying all the time to be open to all what and who we don't believe we understand very welll).

  252. Jonathan Hughes

    All of us have one judge to see who has Jesus character in them,and who does not, and those that do have a gift of infinite value, and those that judge condemning whoever will miss that gift. legalize zoo in calif ,and elsewhere too.

  253. Daniel Jenkins

    twat

  254. de22lano

    man who died of peritonitis due to perforation of the colon after engaging in receptive anal sex with a horse

  255. ...

    Hey, I mean... You wanna get involved with Horse-Play and then wonder why a guy's anal tubes get busted completely out? I do agree that the law kind of REAR ENDED them a bit. But all things considered, they definitely got RAMMED by the media. The whole thing can be a real pain in the ASS. Guy's lucky that beefy horse meat didn't exit out his mouth.

  256. ...

    I wonder what the guy's kid is gonna think when he finds out his dad died from taking a horse bone in the butt. His tombstone should read:

    Here lies Kenneth, that poor old soul
    He took a horse inside his hole
    When the horse pulled out his head
    Kenny's butt was ripped to shreds

  257. amy hauber

    all very good points!! I particularly like your making the correlation between the film and people's tendency to become closer and more loving with their domestic pets than other humans. Similarly, I have seen people seemingly become more upset about a dog or cat that is being mistreated than a child.

    And, yeah... the silly posts on here. I think that most of those folks are maybe just feeling funny for being curious about the subject and have not yet found the real meaning within the film. I thought it was really well done.

  258. avd420

    I noticed the discussion is mostly about animal wel-fare, while noone seems to care about the obviously mentally ill people who commit these acts.

    Maybe they need some compassion and pyscho-thearpy. No matter how "normal" they may appear.

  259. sam

    You don't have to wonder what will happen... it has happened, is happening and has been for eons. We don't actually need to wave our pasty buttocks in front of an aroused animal to train them to try to mount us - it happens anyway. Anyone who has ever worked with animals for any length of time can tell you that. Cows will routinely try to mount each other and you if you aren't watching out for them. Dogs do it, horses, primates, just about any species.

  260. TestTickle

    before watching-i dont feel as horrified and disgusted by animal sex as society says i'm supposed to. normal is just what ppl arbitrarily decide is acceptable. sex is weird. ppl are turned on by strange stuff-i mean, what about being turned on by shoes? so as long as no animals are hurt...shrug

  261. TestTickle

    after watching-i found the movie boooring. it was a bunch of people talking and most of the time i had no idea how they were involved in the incident. [i had only vaguely heard of this before cuz i didnt live in the usa] nothing about this film altered my attitude which is closest to just a shrug. i dont see it as animal cruelty. i am assuming the animal isnt hurt or being coerced. i think the horse is probably happier having sex with a person than getting gelded.
    they had a part where there was some talk i think about the iraq war. i thot the purpose of that might have been to juxtapose the morality of war with the morality of human/animal sex. i consider war far more immoral.

  262. Rachelnico

    uugh...whats so attractive about animals? I think dogs are cute but i don't wanna be with them

  263. Yusiley S

    Wow... took every thought of my mind and posted them so coherently well in the comment section of this documentary. Thank you for that.

    You're especially right on the money about abandonment issues... it's why so many men turn to sex dolls or, in the case of this documentary, with animals such as horses.

    I said it before and I'll say it again... humanity is on the path to self destruction and I can't wait for its conclusion. I rather see our species die off quickly than to further on this path of embarrassing, shameful, degrading modern life.

  264. Yusiley S

    Very documentary-ish. Tells it like it is without being too vulgar or sensationalistic. It sticks to the point... a man and his horse and what they did to each other.

    I love horses. They're big, powerful, majestic beings. My favorite of which are Friesians. Of course, not in the sense that Kenneth Pinyan has love over his horse. He took it to the extreme. I have love for horses in a more spiritual way, rather than a physical one. Not to judge Mr. Pinyan, because I don't know him. Therefore I can't judge him or say he is wrong. In fact I think it was wrong for the horse to be put down that way. Though I can understand the familys' point of doing so... so I wouldn't judge them on that matter either. Plus for all I know the horse is in heaven with Mr. Pinyan having a grand ol' time with each other with the judgment of a few ignorant people.

    Finally, the are a few people here who are overlooking at the fact that the horse is a large, powerful being. This horse could've easily defended himself against Mr. Pinyans' wishes, but he didn't... which makes me think that the horse actually wanted to do the act. I mean come on! The animals I've seen who are involved in the act of having sex with humans aren't children. Adult animals can and will defend themselves when they sense danger or are provoking in a matter to their disliking. Clearly this horse liked to have sex with humans.... and it's not alone. There are lots of animals that, when the opportunity came up, will try to mount a human. I mean how many of us had dogs who tried to dry hump us on the legs? I actually was dried raped once by my dog on one occasion during Hurricane Wilma, while I was sleeping (he is normally outside, but in extreme weather he is allowed inside). I only woke up because I felt shaking and something touching my face. When I woke up to look over, it was my dog... humping and licking me. Evil dog, because he would only display sexual interest towards me. Anyways it goes to show you that at times, when given a chance, animals will want to have a close encounter with humans, so I don't believe this horse was forced to do these acts. I truly believe, from my own animal encounters, that the horse did these acts voluntarily and with full consent. After all, can a human man really control a large, heavy being like a horse... not exactly. Again adult animals aren't children... they do know what is going on and will defend themselves in any way they can when feeling threaded.

  265. happytrailz

    I'm not happy with the ending. Beastiality is on a contimuum with cannibalism, and certainly rape, where sexuality is insanely somehow merged with dominance, and where human beings become equated with animals. Human sexuality is only sane when it is between equals, with equal control, mutual respect, and the ability to communicate with each other as absolute peers; no *sane* sexual act can by definition involve any form of "dominance." We care for animals, but we also cage, manipulate, train and consume them. This is appropriate; human beings are the stewards of the planet. By merging sexuality with the animal-human relationship, however, these men have not only pushed these sensitive creatures toward psychopathology (Horses, especially stallions, can readily become psychotic, especially when their social relationships are abusive or dysfunctional), but also are on the road toward treating humans as animals. At its more primitive, beastiality is -- like rape and prostitution, exploitation of all kinds, and murder -- the reduction of all sex, and ultimately all relationships, to masturbation. If you can sexually violate, dishonor, disrespect, abuse an animal, why not use, exploit, rape, murder, consume a person -- you've already decided all creatures exist to fulfill your needs. The only question left is to what degree you're willing to consume other beings in your selfishness. There's nothing here to "understand" -- brutality can easily be rationalized as "caring" by monsters who think of all beings as inferior and exploitable. No love here, of any kind whatsoever -- not even love for oneself.

  266. happytrailz

    1) You need to see a shrink.
    2) You're a misogynist jerk.

  267. happytrailz

    An immediate threat is not the problem. Horses have complex herd relationships. Training and care methods have evolved over centuries to allow humans to work with these instincts and to train horses humanely, but abusing these animals sexually is absolutely psychological abuse. This stallion was dealing with people, whom he had been trained to see as the Alpha leaders of the herd, also acting in a sexually submissive manner. A stallion has no capacity for understanding this bizarre mixture of roles, and has no instinctual guidelines for dealing with such bizarre events. Any animal will respond to primitive sexual stimulation because they are innocent, and almost autonomic in their sexual response. This does not mean they are not psychologically mangled when abused and exploited in this way. Thank God they gelded the stallion after he was rescued -- otherwise, he likely would have acted out violently when approached by human beings behaving normally (i.e. further confusing him) and had to have been put down as an irreperably dangerous animal.

  268. happytrailz

    Not a valid argument. There's no way to take a valid statistical sample of animal sexual abusers (there's nothing "phillic" going on -- zoophiles are the people working to STOP you from violating and exploiting animals sexually.) This is a tiny, tiny, number of mentally ill people to start with, and since they are also CRIMINALS, they're by definition hiding out. And, what you personally have or have not "heard of" is absolutely meaningless anyway -- do you monitor the news 24/7 re. animals attacks.

  269. Guest

    Oh yeah, thanks for giving me more to ponder. Sincerely though, you are right.

    Very good essay.

  270. LUISO

    wow alot of non sense right here i see a lot of comments about people being mentally ill and what not so if this is the case should religious people be treated like mentally ill people since religion is the only mental disease accepted by society so please leave this people alone they have rights as well as animals if they enjoy sexy with animals let them be "ideas dont need rights......people do......"

  271. ThinkriticLee

    He says @ 6:13 "unfortunately most of the people that were part of our little group were white...." Why is race brought up here?

  272. ThinkriticLee

    Is the narrarator being racist @ 6:13?

  273. ronsfi

    How do you get peritonitis from butt fukicing a horse?

  274. Guest

    @ronsfi
    Couldn't actually bring yourself to watch it, eh? (lol)
    The horse butt-f*cked HIM.

  275. lu47

    I think it's because he was longing for a more diverse group of individuals. I don't think it was an attack on white people. I think he just wanted to feel like people from all backgrounds could come together.

  276. Heidi Blackwell

    "I said it before and I'll say it again... "
    You've put my regularly shouted, cursed and disguted opinion into two well written, easily understood sentences.
    Thank you

  277. Brittany Bowers

    Please do not compare what was done to the horse to rape or child abuse. The fact that you could compare the child to a horse, a horse who could have easily kicked or attacked the man to get away from him is disturbing. Yes the horse may or may not have consented but that's no reason to belittle the many rape and child abuse victims out there.

  278. Damian Brown

    Extremely challenging and confronting, but what a beautifully made documentary.

  279. Tanya Anderssen

    agree

  280. bennyballbags

    Im kind of aroused!! Haha!

  281. shannie

    I don't think you get it. This isn't about comparing a child to an animal, it's about innocence.

  282. Brittany Bowers

    Why must the case for the animal's innocence be made by comparing it to instances of rape and child abuse? To me that's as disturbing as those that equate abortion to the holocaust.

  283. shannie

    Really Brittany? Why does it matter? Seriously, one doesn't have to be worse than the other...the holocaust and abortion? LOL..you're reaching. Now when it comes to rape, child abuse and sexual assault, which includes bestiality, it's all sex crimes to the victims whether they ( the person, child or animal ) know they were sexually assaulted. Example, a severely mentally impaired person who is molested or raped may not know what is happening to them... but they are innocent. A child does not know what is being done in many cases... but they are innocent. Same with a living, breathing creature. You just think animals are beneath humans therefore deserve little recognition when it comes to crimes and abuse towards them..fine with me, but I'd hate to be your dog.

  284. shannie

    Oh and one more thing...you know how sexual predators groom their victims right? That's what the horse rescue lady in the doc was saying ...the horses were groomed to be sexual. Same thing fucked up predators do to their human victims...You might as well say that a man,( cause they get raped too ) woman, or child has arms and legs and could fight off a their attacker or rapists. No one is belittling the victims of sexual assault.

  285. Brittany Bowers

    The reason why I mentioned the abortion holocaust comparison was because I recently saw someone who was doing just that. And I get it, I do. That by making this comparison you are able to tie the strong feelings associated with one thing with another.

    I just don't feel that that is the right way to go about it. I think that you should make the case against this kind of abuse on its own without comparing it to these other things because they are such sensitive topics especially to the victims.

    Personally, I do feel that the experience of the victim changes with age, with mental capacity etc. Therefore the way that an adult is able to cope is very different from that of the child (who later becomes an adult) and yes also different from the animal. It would also be different between men and women and to say that these experiences and the way that people or animals or whatever deal with them or equal or that it affects everyone the same way is wrong.

    I don't think that these comparisons are appropriate to be quite frank.

  286. cetude

    The FBI profiled bestiality with rapists who mutilate and murder human victims. Particularly with small animals they are killed-which gets the sexual deviant off torturing and killing them at the moment they ejaculate. We live in a very sick and deviant society but I'm not sure which is worse-the practitioners of bestiality or the Federal law makers who won't do anything about it.

  287. cetude

    What most bestiality advocates don't want to hear about are the multitudes of viruses animals have which is harmless to them, but can be quite lethal in human population. It only takes ONE PERSON to get infected to start a world wide epidemic. Gonorrhea and chlamydia are actually cow diseases; HIV originated from chimpanzees; Herpes B which causes deadly meningitis, from monkeys. SARS. EBOLA. Urologists have recently linked penis cancer with bestiality contact. They also linked people who engage with bestiality have high, high risk of getting sexually transmitted diseases. Zoonotic disease are quite real which are very good reasons to ban bestiality and its porn. 31 States have some law against it but most of them are misdemeanors. There is NO Federal law against bestiality. No Federal law against bestiality porn, which is extremely epidemic in America. Though a law would not stop all bestiality practices, it would cut it down quite a bit. If anything to help safeguard the transmission of viral diseases to the human population.

  288. knowledgeizpower

    thank you finally someone that points these things out about sexually transmitted diseases found in animals... syphlis i read is found in sheep...but just like you said nobody discusses that or wants to hear about that....I actually made it through viewing this doc a couple of years ago one time is all it took (sigh)....Peace

  289. Scarlet Kinsey

    You know what I figure? Animals can know what they want and effectively ask for sex in an informed way, at least wild animals, but you'll be hard pressed to make them trust you like a fellow of their species and not get ripped to shreds.

    But domestic animals are bred to be infantile and servile so that they do whatever humans tell them to, they are also bred to have super high sex drives so that they breed as fast as possible.

    Then add onto this that domestic animals are effectively brainwashed out of whatever fear of strangers or ability to defend themselves from violence they have left,no matter how abused they are they do as they will never attack because they are taught that humans are infallible and if humans hit them,starve them, whatever, then the humans are still doing the right thing.

    Add onto this the fact that wild animals are educated about sex by their parents,us as humans can't effectively speak their language in order to do this; wild wolves are strictly monogamous and always know who's parents are who's,but within two generations tame they are promiscuous, hundreds of generations later we have dogs that think sex is humping your leg and males don't recognise their babies because they don't know sex could mean babies (and because for most of history the males never see their babies), stallions are also bred and taught to be sexually stupid,and also have never seen foals for hundreds of years, they are even believed to be dangerous to foals now because their father instincts are gone.
    All this together makes an animal that is frankly,retarded, these aren't animals that can know what they want.

    For these reasons I think sex with animals should still be as illegal as ever.
    There are quite possibly those rare individuals that aren't raised that way, but they're just that, very rare.

  290. Josh Bluer

    there cant be a federal law against it since it doesnt have anything about it in the costitution there can only be state laws since its not a constitutional law yh i dnt understand it either i heard of beastiality and looked it up and saw all the reasons it shouldnt happen but people are people and will do what they want -sighs- i dnt hav a problem with beastiality its not my say nor not my judgement cuz my judgement wont matter so i dnt care if people do it but as long as they know the risks

  291. wanderwarrior92

    this is indeed a strange, missunderstood world we live in. people are strange enough as is. we must understand true compassion, unconditional love before making any harsh judjments.
    not that inter-species relashons, are by any means acceptable but these people werent evil. they just loved their animals more than most people do.
    it just bothers me how "over-exagerated" the media was. they olney portrayed things much worse than they had to be.
    - R.K.

  292. azav

    Abortion holocaust? Oh s***, please.

  293. Corey Bell

    ok this is a good example of a outsider looking in you dont know so how can you judge maybe this horse loves the human the same way why because you dont understand something you look at it like its the worst thing ever you love your husband or wife dont you and you have sex wel;l why dont you believe that this horse and man cant have this bond there are greater ways of comunication than just words what about body language just because alot of people refuse to pay attention to it doesnt mean its not there i do believe in beastiality as well as support it theres gays then theres zoos.

  294. Guest

    can i ask you a questions?

    Can you talk about how animals have the mind set of children and how when buying one to have sex with one is morally wrong in MANY ways

  295. Epicurus

    im sorry i didnt completely understand this question. can you try again?

  296. michelle

    i feel like im about to watch a f##$ horror movie....

  297. Mistymoo

    how bad is this to watch? im interested but also scared of being sickened?

  298. Guest

    I took a chance and watched it about 6 months ago. It's not actually overt or anything in the graphic details... Much more psychologically disturbing. Still left me feeling pretty uneasy, and I regretted watching it for a while. But I'm probably kind of a wimp about these things anyway, lol. So...IF you're one who can distance yourself from a subject pretty easily, you probably wouldn't have a problem with it. On the other hand, if you genuinely care a lot about animals (even though the "victim" is human), I don't think I could recommend it.

  299. Mistymoo

    Thank u pysmythe for reply - I think I WILL leave watching this then defo i am a massive animal lover i think this is crossing the line x

  300. Rameez Shamoun

    May i know the title of the 'piano' background music ?

  301. Staind716

    But not quite as much of an animal lover as these people huh?

  302. Staind716

    Spoken like a man who loves his small farm animals.

  303. Dawn Thomas

    I think a couple of things are missed in all of these discussions.
    1) Comparison to children - you can't compare them to children, you can't buy children, you can't kill a child, you can't eat a child, you can't wear portions of a child as clothing, you can't hunt a child, you are not forced by the law to give aid to an animal where you are to a child. An animal is not a child - the law and society say that very clearly by what they allow to happen to a child versus an animal. So if you agree that the things you can legally and morally do to an animal are not the things you can do to a child, then you must agree animals are not children. Comparisons are apples to oranges.

    2) I agree that just because we perpetrate one crime against something/someone doesn't mean we have a right to perpetrate anything at all. But you also have to agree that the larger damage to animals is done by the food industry and if you wish to change the fates of animals, there you have far clearer circumstances: living in squalor, dying in fear with your throat slashed, or having your beak burned off your face. If you want to reduce animal suffering, clearly and in large portions, arguing and fighting over inter-species sex is not a way to assuage the suffering of the largest portion of animals. It's literally shoving a pinhead in the busting Hoover Dam. Don't claim it's about the suffering of animals if you don't do anything about the meat industry, you're just being obtuse.

    3) Do pet your animals? Someone spoke of the difference between petting a belly and petting just north of privates. What is the difference except to the human? If the animal enjoys it, it's the same thing, you use your dominance to do something that feels good to you and APPEARS to feel good to them, like any other pet. The only thing being violated is the sanctity of the human. I do things to my animals that if they were humans, I would be horrified to find myself doing. I would never scratch my friend's butt, I wouldn't run my hands down their backs and stroke them, yet we think nothing of doing the same thing to an animal, especially if it APPEARS to request this. I won't clean their bathrooms, and I most certainly will not wipe their butt if they have a clingon.

    I wouldn't hold my friend down and pill them, nor would I pack them in a crate to visit the doctor, especially against their APPARENT wishes. I won't let my friends lie in bed between myself and my partner and I certainly wouldn't let one bite my face (no matter how gently) when she apparently felt especially affectionate. I might scratch one behind the ears, but if they expected me to feed them everyday, well they're in for a surprise. Animals are in a different category and proclaiming they are anything approaching humans is just stupid.

    4) No one is ever fully cognisant of what they do, whether it's consent to sex, walking out the front door, or voting. We often make decisions blindly, often to our direct detriment even though we know what is more likely to be "good" for us. The Law seems to take some notice of this: a 14 year old girl and a 16 year old boy have no real idea of the consequences of sex, yet it's not legally punishable in many places. It is illegal for someone 4,5, or 6 years older than a 14 year old to do so in may places. What's the difference? Our perception. We THINK the older one will take advantage of the younger one. And sometimes it happens, and sometimes they are just as immature as the 14 year old, but we have to draw a line somewhere, right?

    When I first started having sex I was not aware of how much it would change me, yet I dove into it willingly. Do I wish I hadn't? I don't know. Maybe it would have been better, maybe worse. No one can tell me. Even in my 40s I don't know what one act or another will really mean for me, I just have to live on trust and try to do what I was taught is good. So someone not being cognisant of the repercussions of their acts isn't specifically a good reason to make them stop doing whatever it is they are doing. What is good is to know that certain paths ALMOST always lead to large amounts of pain and anguish, and to protect others if they don't have enough information or experience. You can do this for kids and the mentally handicapped because they are likely to grow mentally and possibly end up in those bad paths even if they want whatever it is.

    Animals are different here - they have no sense of shame, no self-hate, no internal language that is a blade that wounds them constantly. I promise you no female dog looks into a puddle and thinks "Oh God, I'm such a slut, everyone will hate me, I had sex with 10 males today." These are things we don't have to protect animals against, so the actions of animal can't be held to the same level as a human. They can't take those dark paths because they don't have the capacity for shame and social abuse that we do. So some guy does things with his PURCHASED (ownership...) pet that would harm a human BUT they can't harm the animal because it doesn't have the social and mental problems related to apparent self-awareness.

    If Daisy Mae enjoys the diddling of her owner, she won't be in doggie therapy for years. If Daisy doesn't like it AND the owner uses physical force and causes pain, then we are talking rape. Rape for people is mental, the physical side effects are far less than the mental ones. For animals the mental problems aren't there, so the physical takes over and if in the process the animal is harmed, that becomes a physical rape. The effects of rape for humans is so devastating that the physical damage is long healed before any mental healing even starts. Rape CAN occur between a human and an animal but rape requires involuntary pain (see BDSM, voluntary pain is ok.) Since animals don't experience mental pain like we do, only the physical part can apply. Is it rape to pet an animal? You could be arrested for touching a human that way, but an animal .. bah it's just an animal.

    If you cause an animal pain by cutting it's nails or pulling some barbed wire off it, we don't think any thing of it, it's for the "good of the animal". Tug on your doggies schlong till he ejaculates and he feels really good, no harm has come to the animal, in fact he may feel an overall better feeling because he gets a release, this is wrong? Doing it to further a breed of dogs that can't breed any more is ok, but making your pooch happy isn't? I know people who stick their fingers in their animals ear and run them in circles and come back with ear wax, what's the diff between wax and 'whacks'"? I know people who let animals eat in their mouths, not OFF or near, but actually reach into their mouths and take the food, already masticated, and eat it. Putting your penis in an APPARENTLY willing females vagina is as gross as that?

    5. Using an animal is something 99.99% of people have 0 compunctions about, but because they have hang ups about sex in general using an animal for sexual release suddenly is worse than any other use, we just don't like to admit that it's not the animal parts, it's the sex part. Think about the places most pet owners will roam and touch their pets ... all but the privates. Sure we've been taught not to touch someone else's privates, but haven't we been taught not to grab their butt, or to squeeze their boobs, or rub their belly? What is so different about privates on pets? In actuality, nothing, it's in our heads.

    6. Consent. A dead subject. We do what we want to whatever animal for whatever reason barring taping their mouth shut and lighting them on fire .. and in some places that's not illegal, sadly. Consent must be for anything or nothing. You can't have "mostly not consent, but for this consent." How screwed are we: A woman gets drunk, she and a drunk man have verbally agreed upon sex and the law now says it was rape, not because she said no, but because she was drunk. BUT drink and drive, the same amount, and suddenly the consent thing disappears. You are held responsible even if you are were 10x more smashed than the woman who had sex drunk. Where's the 'fairness'? Where's the actual protection from harm? Animal consent is one way or another, either they consent to all they do or they consent to nothing, they can't not give consent cause they are drunk, but they gave consent to drive. Either an animal has a will, and consent applies to everything, or they have none and it doesn't matter.

    7. If they mount their owner after getting a belly rub, it ain't about dominance. If a male dog is humping your leg and start to splooge, which happened in most of the few times a dog has humped my leg, it ain't about dominance. In dominance humping, there's no ejaculation and they change where the penis is pointed. In MOST cases the penis never leaves it's sheath. In a way dominance humping is like the hazing of College Frat Boys. In fact if you've ever hung out with an age mixed group of boys and teens, very often the older males will actually play act intercourse with the younger ones. It is extremely rare that their parts are seen or even meet in the clothes but it's very close to the dominance humping behaviour - it's about "I'm a MALE and you aren't, you girly man." 'Jail House Sex' toned down.

    8. Inter-species sex = disease. Not. There are very few diseases that can jump from animal to human. For those of you who are afraid of this, it's fairly rare for a human who has consistent inter-species sex to have sex with other humans, therefore they rarely can be a vector for these diseases.

    9. Is the idea of inter-species sex icky? Yes, but so is the idea of your great-grandmother and great grandfather getting it on. Icky doesn't make something wrong or right. It is the level of harm that makes things wrong or right. Until you can prove either way that adult animals (physically adults) are harmed by APPARENTLY voluntary inter-species sex then I have to conclude that the apparent lack of harm means the whole thing is non-harmful and that people having inter-species sex that doesn't require physical force or involuntary pain is icky but but not evil.

  304. Mistymoo

    Lol no definatly not ! Won't watch the documentary either x

  305. Staind716

    I just heard that Zoo was a little bizarre but I had no idea it would be something like this. I haven't been able to bring myself to watch this one either. Not to judge (well, yeah actually) this is just sick. I live in the south but I never really got into the small farm animal thing. :)

  306. Guest

    Dr. Hani Miletski says that it's alright for people to have sex with animals as long as nobody is harmed. Again, her opinion has more weight to it? than yours because she's a doctor. Plus she's done a lot more research on zoophilia than you have. She's in the documentary "Animal Passions".

  307. Epicurus

    argument from authority.

    and a terrible authority. if you look this "Dr." up she got her degree from a non-accredited university. LOL

    She studied at The Catholic University of America and gained her doctorate at the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality California

    The Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality (est. 1976) is a non-accredited degree-granting institution and resource center in the field of sexology located in San Francisco, California

    its basically a degree farm.

    what is her specialty is animal psychology? or moral/ethical philosophy?

    lol come on.

  308. Guest

    Does anyone on this page have a Ph.D. in psychology and sexology? Dr. Hani Miletski does. Notice the "Dr." in front of her name. Does anyone here have a "Dr." in front of their name? She says it's? not a disorder and it's alright for people to have sex with animals as long as nobody is hurt. She also concluded from her studies that zoophiles come from all walks of life and don't fit into stereotypes.

  309. Guest

    On page 96 of "Understanding? Bestiality & Zoophilia" Dr. Hani Miletski finds similarities between homosexuality and zoosexuality.

  310. Guest

    Ha! Yeah, you would try to convince everyone that she's not a real doctor because you find it expedient to do so. She got a Ph.D. in psychology and sexology. Do you have any training in those studies? I seriously doubt it. Next you're going to try and say she? faked her Ph.D. The truth is she knows a lot more about what she is talking about than you do. All you and your friend have done is try to attack her because of her expert opinion that you disagree with.

  311. Epicurus

    the Dr. infront of her name is from a DEGREE FARM. not a real school. she doesnt even have a single degree in psychology. I on the other hand do have a Bsc in psychology.

  312. Epicurus

    i listed the schools she went to. you can look them up. and you can look her up. she doesnt not have a degree in psychology and she went to non-accredited schools. that means she is nothing.

    and can you show me where she says that its alright to have sex with animals. i completely forgot to ask you to even prove what you are claiming.

  313. Guest

    On page 96 of "Understanding Bestiality & Zoophilia" Dr. Hani Miletski finds similarities? between homosexuality and zoosexuality.

  314. Guest

    Dr. Hani Miletski is not a zoophile and doesn't advocate zoophilia but she says that people should be free to do what they want as long as? no animals are hurt. I started reading the book she wrote, "Understanding Bestiality & Zoophilia". It's 273 pages long and full of a lot of information. I think if people want to debate over this subject then they should start reading it because any information you don't know is just going to put you at a disadvantage in a debate.

  315. Epicurus

    what similarities does she find and what is the exact quote?

  316. Epicurus

    i think you are suffering from what is called "confirmation bias"

    all i think you can say her book has shown is that within the existing literature, very little is actually known about bestiality and there is not anything approaching a consensus as to why animal-human sexual contacts occur... many of the existing reports and studies should be classified more as pseudo-science than serious research."

    now she might argue that if the animal is not being restrained that she thinks it is okay. well would she think it is okay to have sex with a 9 year old child as long as they are enjoying it? if not, why?

  317. Guest

    Dr. Hani Miletski is a DOCTOR and your just some guy who is trolling. It doesn't matter how much time you? spend on the disqus because a DOCTOR'S opinion will always carry more weight than yours. She's done extensive research on zoophilia and she says it's not a disorder. Of course you don't want anyone to read her studies because that would contradict what you say. I presented some facts to you but feel free to just trash talk since that seems to be what your best at. Here's another fact, you don't really do anything to stop zoophilia. All you do is troll and trash talk. where I called you out on your BS. CHAO!

  318. Epicurus

    what you are doing right now is first of all called a logical fallacy. you are making an argument from authority saying anything a DOCTOR says must be right. but that is not correct. i could list many doctors who have been wrong.

    you also arent listening to what im telling you. the school she got her Phd from is not a REAL university. it is a fake university. not respected.

    im not trolling at all. you are getting upset and crying that im a troll because you cant back up what you are saying with a direct quote and you dont seem to be very smart. you seem to not understand what a non-accredited university is.

    its a shame that you suffer from so much confirmation bias.

    PS, the correct spelling is Ciao, not chao.

  319. Guest

    You tell everyone that Dr. Hani Miletski is not a real doctor because you find it expedient to attack her credibility. And it doesn't matter if a school is non-accredited or not. All that matters is if the school is LICENSED. A LICENSED school is a legit and real school. Nice try! It? looks to me like you got your information of wikipedia and other random websites that you don't bother mentioning where exactly you obtained this information. I don't think you read any of "Understanding Bestiality & Zoophila". People that are interested in learning more should read it.

  320. Guest

    The only reason you drag pedophilia into this is to make an emotional appeal. It's a form of logical fallacy used in debate to try and take advantage of people's emotions. Vegans do it all the time in debate by trying to compare eating meat to murder, serial killers, the Nazi holocaust etc. People like you will drag anything you can think of into an argument to make an emotional appeal. If you simply read "Understanding Bestiality & Zoophilia" you would see everything? that she says in that book. You ask for proof and there it is. If you don't read the book then you're just avoiding what you don't want to see. Keep in mind that it was published 2002 so she might have some new stuff that she has learned since then.

  321. Guest

    I did my own research on her she DOES have a Ph.D. Do you want to try and back up this outrageous claim that she doesn't? It says right on her published books "Ph.D." I see you're really good at reciting what you read? on Wikipedia and making false claims about doctors. Can you back up what you say about Hani Miletski and her Ph.D.? What website told you she's not a real doctor?

  322. Guest

    The Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality is fully approved for graduate education in Sexology by the Bureau of Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education? of the State of California

  323. Guest

    Why don't you back up your claims that she's not a real doctor and Ph.D.? Oh yeah, that's because you're a liar! HA HA HA! And she's not just any doctor. She has a Ph.D.? in psychology and sexology. As for the pedophilia you keep dragging into this. If it's ok to kill and eat a cow then why not kill a human being and eat a human. See how stupid that sounds? But vegans use dumb arguments like that all the time. Dr. Hani Miletski is a real doctor you just don't like that she contradicts what you say. So you just start lying because you haven't got much other choice.

  324. Guest

    Be sure to read "Understanding Bestiality & Zoophilia". It has all the proof you need right there. BTW, She's been studying zoophilia since 1995. She? knows what she's talking about.

  325. Epicurus

    I tell everyone that she is not a real doctor because her doctorate is not from a real school.

    lets look at what some websites have to say about this "school"

    Does Your Therapist Have a PhD from Inst for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality? If so, don’t walk — RUN to the exit and never return again. It is nothing but credential fraud. I cannot say, for certain, that the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality is a diploma mill. However, I can say that “The Institute,” at best, is nothing but an unaccredited vocational school. The diplomas that they offer are worthless. In fact, much of the faculty is self-credentialed. In other words, they have a bogus diploma from the same school. Some of these do not appear to have undergraduate degrees which means that high school graduates are teaching people who will be awarded “doctorates.” Presumably then, some people receive PhD‘s without an undergraduate degree. But, as I said, the diploma is worthless.

    Accreditation is a very lengthy process that starts with a self-study by an academic steering committee. One absolute requirement is a faculty and academic management with credentials from accredited educational institutions.

    I came across this issue when I was investigating NARTH’s claim that they published a study in a peer reviewed scientific journal. That “prestigious” journal turns out to be published by the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality. But it gets worse.

    A web search reveals that there is a huge number of people who list these bogus credentials on their curricula vitae. These include practicing therapists. It would not surprise me if some employers and even some licensing agencies were duped into accepting these diplomas as legitimate credentials. Now you might wonder about the value of a therapist who has a legitimate masters degree in, say, counseling plus the phony PhD from IASHS. If your therapist was intent on embellishing their resume with unearned credentials, that is very telling. If they were too stupid to know that they were spending tens of thousands of dollars on a piece of flushable paper, would you really want their help in sorting out your dilemmas?

    Oh, by the way, “The Institute” is in the business of endorsing herbal sexual enhancement products. It only further proves that, if you have a medical problem, see a real doctor.

  326. Epicurus

    "The only reason you drag pedophilia into this is to make an emotional appeal. It's a form of logical fallacy used in debate to try and take advantage of people's emotions."

    absolutely false. wow. if i was your professor in philosophy of logic you would fail. big F for you. an emotional appeal would be if i asked you if you want someone to have sex with your dog. this was an analogy and if it was false logic if anything it would be false analogy. but i dont think it is a false analogy. i want to know what is the difference between having sex with a dog and with a 9 year old.

  327. Epicurus

    i said she doesnt have a degree in psychology, and that her Phd is from a degree mill and not accredited, thus completely and utterly useless.

    you keep trying to say she has a degree in psychology but she doesnt. and a phd in sexology is not a real thing. its only given at fake schools like The Institue for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality....if you cant tell that that is a fake school i cant help you.

    just because it is approved by a STATE run bureau doesnt mean it is federally accredited. which it isnt.

    funny you didnt add the part on the FAQ that says:

    Can a graduate of the Institute become licensed as a mental health expert?
    Because the licensing requirements for the various professional areas in mental health vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, we cannot comment on this issue. The applicant is responsible for determining the licensing requirements for the jurisdiction in which she or he wishes to work.

    ANY REAL UNIVERSITY YOU GRADUATE FROM LICENSES YOU TO BE A MENTAL HEALTH EXPERT UPON GRADUATION.

    the fact that this place wont comment on it means that the person is ONLY accredited in their state, thus they are from a state run private non-accredited school.

    she is not a real doctor because she didnt EARN her Phd, she paid a non-accredited school for it. she is a joke. the ONLY reason you like her is because she makes you feel normal for wanting to have sex with animals. you ignore every single other psychologist in the world (all real Phd's) and you cling to this one lady who didnt even go to a real school.

    once again, you are suffering from confirmation bias. you found ONE person you THINK is a professional, who agrees with your view that you should be able to have sex with animals, and you try hold them up in the spotlight ignoring everything else.

    you are pathetic.

  328. Epicurus

    why dont YOU back up your claims that she has a Phd or any degree in psychology?

    now did i ever say it is okay to kill and eat cows? no i did not. i dont think it is okay to do that.

    i also dont think it is okay to use something that has the mentality of a child for my own sexual gratification. you might seem to think that is okay, but unlike you and your fake doctor i ACTUALLY DO have a degree in psychology.

    thanks for making yourself look like a disgusting creep on the internet....let me guess....you are in Tennessee?

    get yourself some help.

  329. Guest

    Is it alright to neuter a 3 year old child? Your arguments? are too stupid for words.

  330. Epicurus

    did i say it was okay to neuter an animal?

    dont strawman me just because you are too st*pid to make up an argument to justify your sickness.

    and wait....are you saying that it isnt okay to neuter a 3 year old but IT IS okay to neuter an animal? if you think so, why?

    if you dont think so then why do you think it is okay to fuck an animal and not a child?

  331. Guest

    FACT: Dr. Hani Miletski is a real doctor. FACT: She has a Ph.D. in psychology and sexology. FACT: It says Ph.D. on the covers of her published books. FACT: You are scrambling to tell everyone she is not a doctor ( which is a lie) because you know a doctor's/psychologist's/sexolo­gist's opinion shoots down a nobody on the internet's opinion any day. Who are you? Are you a doctor? Do you have an IQ of 140? What credibility is your opinion based on? You're a faceless, nameless nobody on the internet that acts like your opinion is more valid than? a doctor's.

  332. Guest

    Check out Dr. Hani Miletski's website. It says that she was listed as one of the top psychotherapists specializing in sexual issues. And? read "Understanding Bestiality & Zoophilia". The proof that she is a real doctor is staggering yet you cling to this sinking ship of a lie as a last ditch effort. You can continue being a faceless nobody attacking a doctor's credibility through a computer and making up outrageous lies. This is like watching a captain go down with the ship.

  333. Guest

    I bet you has not done half the research on zoophilia or zoophiles that Dr. Hani Miletski has done and been doing for many years. And I seriously doubt you was listed as one of the top psychotherapists specializing in sexual issues. There is plenty of evidence to back up Dr. Hani Miletski's credibility all over the place. She has published books. She's been in a documentary. Now who is your daddy? This is the internet and nobody knows who you are. For all we know you could work at the seven eleven.

  334. Epicurus

    I have an IQ of 138 and I DO have a degree in psychology.

    Hani Miletski does NOT have a degree in psychology. you might be getting mixed up with therapist. a therapist is NOT a psychologist and does not have a degree in psychology.

    i can name you 100 doctors who would disagree with Hani Miletski. so why do you agree with just her and ignore everyone else?

    FROM HER OWN WEBSITE:

    Hani Miletski, Ph.D., M.S.W., is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker with a Master's degree in Social Work from the Catholic University of America, National School of Social Service, in Washington, DC. She holds a Doctoral degree in Human Sexuality from the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality, in San Francisco, CA.

    Hani is a Certified Sex Therapist (Diplomate) and Supervisor by the American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors, and Therapists (AASECT).

    NO WHERE ON THERE DOES IT CLAIM A DEGREE IN PSYCHOLOGY.

  335. Epicurus

    if you were honest you would have shown what it actually says.

    In the July 2009 issue of the Washingtonian, Hani was listed as one of the top psychotherapists specializing in sexual issues.

    did you look up what the washingtonian is? do you think that it is a reputable source for academic information?

    the only thing i am saying is that her Phd is from a fake school. its not accredited. you dont seem to understand what that means.

  336. Epicurus

    okay listen to me carefully....just saying because someone is a doctor they MUST be right, is false.

    you say she says it is okay. well hundreds if not thousands of other doctors would say it is wrong. but that doesnt matter. arguments from popularity and arguments from authority mean nothing.

    WHAT IS HER REASON FOR SAYING IT IS OKAY??????

    convince us with logic. not with just an appeal to a random authority who got their degree from a fake school.

  337. Guest

    If you don't think it's ok to kill and eat a human then why kill and eat a cow? See how stupid that sounds? Vegans make arguments like that all the time, it's stupid. Tell me, are? you blind or just trying to mislead everyone? It says Ph.D. on the covers of her published books. I see you're still trying frantically to tell everyone she's not a real doctor. She's not just some random authority. She has done more research on zoophilia and zoophiles than any other doctor with a Ph.D. in psychology and sexology. She is a real doctor despite what you try to tell people. There is overwhelming evidence to show everyone that you're a liar.

  338. Guest

    Dr. Hani Miletski has done more research? on zoophilia and zoophiles than any other doctor with a Ph.D. in psychology and sexology. You're just some nobody on the internet saying stuff that can't be backed up anywhere. I have not heard a legit and respectable source say what you are saying about her. What legit and respectable source says what you're saying about her? There's plenty of sources to back up what I'm saying. A nobody on the internet can say anything. Can you back up what you're saying?

  339. Guest

    I'm just going? to keep dropping facts on your page.

  340. Epicurus

    it isnt okay to kill and eat a cow. and it isnt okay to kill and eat a human.

    why is it stupid?

    yes it says phd on HER books. SHE put it there. she got that Phd from a fake school.

    she doesnt have a degree in psychology, you keep saying that but havent shown me where you got that from.

    dont worry. people will look for themselves what we are saying and they will see that you are a i*iot

  341. Epicurus

    i am getting my information from her webpage then looking up the schools she went to. thats what anyone can do.

  342. Epicurus

    you are just making yourself look like an i*iot by repeating yourself over and over and over again.

    you like sex with animals and you found a fake doctor who says you can do it. that is what has happened.

    the only facts you are dropping is the fact that you are suffering from severe confirmation bias.

  343. Guest

    I see you lost a subscriber. They must have went and checked out what we were saying and saw you were just a liar. Dr. Hani Miletski is really a doctor. And all it takes is a simple internet search to see that she's legit. Lying is like a circle, it goes around and comes right back to you. I will? keep repeating myself as many times as I want to because it's the truth. I will not let you bury facts posted on your page under a mountain of text and lies. Dr. Hani Miletski has spent many years researching zoophilia and I will not let you talk trash about someone that has put in way more hard work than you have.

  344. Epicurus

    what are you talking about? how did i lose a subscriber? you arent making any sense.

    she is a fake doctor. just like Kent Hovind.

    Since animals don't have the same capacity for thinking as humans, they are unable to give full consent. it is that simple. now do you want a doctor who has studied it to disagree with you?

    Dr. Frank Ascione stated that "bestiality may be considered abusive even in cases when physical harm to an animal does not occur." In a 1997 article, Piers Beirne, Professor of Criminology at the University of Southern Maine, points out that 'for genuine consent to sexual relations to be present...both participants must be conscious, fully informed and positive in their desires.'

  345. Guest

    and stop trolling zoosexually

  346. Epicurus

    ...so what kind of animal are you abusing presently?

  347. Guest

    im not abusing any animal im loveing them...
    see Dr. Hani Miletski has done more research and studying on zoophilia than Dr. Frank Ascione. I never even heard of this guy. Also Dr. Frank Ascione? sounds like he has a bias towards zoophiles. If a researcher is overly bias towards a group they are studying it could lead to a lot of confirmation bias. And their research can't be taken seriously. You also have a lot of confirmation bias and that's why you keep lying about Dr. Hani Miletski. You CAN NOT just pretend to be a doctor and do a fake study on something and then right a long detailed book on something and put Ph.D. on the cover when you don't have a Ph.D.

  348. Guest

    You can't pretend to be a doctor and fool the whole world. YOU ARE the only person saying this stuff about Dr. Hani Miletski. What that means is that YOU ARE MAKING ALL THIS UP. Get it?? YOU ARE LYING. I don't see anyone else that is of a reliable source backing up what you are saying. It sounds to me like you are pulling this directly from your ass. Do you really think you could fool the whole world into believing you have a Ph.D. when you really don't? THERE IS NO RELIABLE SOURCE BACKING YOU UP ON THIS.

    Dr. Hani Miletski's research is considered by many to be ground breaking because it was never done before. You can't find another doctor with a Ph.D. in psychology and sexology that has done more research on zoophilia and zoophiles than her. You can't find any doctor at? all that has done more research on the subject. It's clear that you have your own confirmation bias and that's why you keep lying about her to try and discredit her.

  349. Guest

    I can't find anything that Dr. Frank Ascione says about zoophilia other than that one line I've seen you spit out a couple of? times. It seems like he hasn't done much research on zoophilia at all. Dr. Hani Miletski has a book that's 273 pages long on zoophilia and bestiality. You're going to have to do better than spitting out one line from Dr. Frank Ascione. Does he have any books? How much research has he done on this subject? Is he being funded by any groups with a political agenda?

    Writing a book and then displaying on the cover of the book "Ph.D." when someone? doesn't really have a Ph.D. is called Ph.D. fraud. Now can you back up your accusations you made against Dr. Hani Miletski? Go read about Ph.D. fraud. Do I need any more proof that you are a liar?

  350. Guest

    are you zoophobia?

    maybe that why you hate zoosexually...

  351. Epicurus

    i have provided evidence for what i have said every step of the way. you are too simple minded to follow me.

  352. Guest

    are you zoophobia?

    maybe that why you hate zoosexually...

  353. Epicurus

    i dont hate the practice at all. I see it as a sickness. however i do worry about the mental and physical wellbeing of the animals involved.

    have you ever wondered why the people who like to do this stuff always look the way they do? you know what im talking about?

    you will never find a normal upstanding moral person who has sex with animals.

    i can only say i hope you get caught

  354. Epicurus

    wow. you didnt even read or take in what i said to you. you are a complete waste of my time.

    give up. you will not convince anyone with your argument from false authority that it is okay to have sex with something that you can not obtain its full coherent consent of first.

    go back to school.

  355. Guest

    So I guess that means I win since all you could do was parrot back what I just posted. It's clear you can't back up all that BS? you've been saying because you lied.

  356. Epicurus

    actually i said you had confirmation bias a long time ago sir. but thanks for reading and responding to what i just said [/sarcasm]

  357. Epicurus

    Does Your Therapist Have a PhD from Inst for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality? If so, don’t walk — RUN to the exit and never return again. It is nothing but credential fraud. I cannot say, for certain, that the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality is a diploma mill. However, I can say that “The Institute,” at best, is nothing but an unaccredited vocational school. The diplomas that they offer are worthless. In fact, much of the faculty is self-credentialed. In other words, they have a bogus diploma from the same school. Some of these do not appear to have undergraduate degrees which means that high school graduates are teaching people who will be awarded “doctorates.” Presumably then, some people receive PhD‘s without an undergraduate degree. But, as I said, the diploma is worthless.

    Accreditation is a very lengthy process that starts with a self-study by an academic steering committee. One absolute requirement is a faculty and academic management with credentials from accredited educational institutions.

    I came across this issue when I was investigating NARTH’s claim that they published a study in a peer reviewed scientific journal. That “prestigious” journal turns out to be published by the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality. But it gets worse.

    A web search reveals that there is a huge number of people who list these bogus credentials on their curricula vitae. These include practicing therapists. It would not surprise me if some employers and even some licensing agencies were duped into accepting these diplomas as legitimate credentials. Now you might wonder about the value of a therapist who has a legitimate masters degree in, say, counseling plus the phony PhD from IASHS. If your therapist was intent on embellishing their resume with unearned credentials, that is very telling. If they were too stupid to know that they were spending tens of thousands of dollars on a piece of flushable paper, would you really want their help in sorting out your dilemmas?

    Oh, by the way, “The Institute” is in the business of endorsing herbal sexual enhancement products. It only further proves that, if you have a medical problem, see a real doctor.

  358. Guest

    see gay and zoophilia are the same thing

  359. Guest

    You are self delusional. All in the world on this dot it in eternity is your neighbor. Jesus was asked who his brother was, and he looked around him,and said my mother my father my sister, and n m,y brother.

    Matthew 12;46While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

    This is Gods will.
    Mark 12:31 ;28And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

    To wish harm on anyone is breaking that commandment agreed?

  360. Epicurus

    however gay is between two CONSENTING ADULTS.

    big difference. consenting between two cogent moral agents.

  361. Epicurus

    nothing what you said has anything to do with what i said to you.

    but if you think the bible is true then you are crazier than I thought.

    also if you do like the bible maybe you should read these passages:

    Lev 18:23: "And you shall not lie with any beast and defile yourself with it, neither shall any woman give herself to a beast to lie with it: it is a perversion."
    Lev 20:15-16 "If a man lies with a beast, he shall be put to death; and you shall kill the beast. If a woman approaches any beast and lies with it, you shall kill the woman and the beast; they shall be put to death, their blood is upon them."

  362. Guest

    I know you think you're really smart but a doctor's opinion will always beat yours no matter what you say. And Dr.Hani Miletski has done more research on zoophilia than any other doctor. She's done more research than Dr. Ascione. Your followers mean dick compared to an expert opinion from somebody? with a Ph.D. You can say what ever you want. It doesn't change the fact that she's a doctor and she actually knows what she's talking about. The book she wrote is being read by experts around the world and is actually changing the way people think. Your account means nothing to experts and other people with a Ph.D.

  363. Guest

    The doctors, the psychologists, the therapists, the sexologists, the experts are reading Dr. Hani Miletski's book. They are not reading **** nor do they give a **** about your silly opinion. Get it? The experts don't care what you think. Dr. Hani Miletski is the doctor, not you. Understanding Bestiality & Zoophilia is a book that experts take seriously and your chan... well, it's just a ******* chan. I made my point kid, I'm not wasting anymore time with you. Have fun wasting all your time while people read Dr. Hani Miletski's book.

  364. Guest

    Read "Understanding Bestiality & Zoophilia". It was written by a doctor and not some kid with a DISQUS accounts

  365. Guest

    I decided to come back.? Your stupidity is entertaining.

  366. Epicurus

    just because you keep saying it doesnt make it so.

    the experts say that sex with animals is wrong because you can not obtain their consent anymore than you can obtain the consent of a drunk person or a child.

  367. Epicurus

    why do you type four sentences back to back?

    are you that angry? oh well, at least i know that when you are here arguing with me you arent having sex with some animal.

    at least im helping an animal by doing this.

  368. Epicurus

    i thought you liked the bible? if you believe the bible is the word of god then you should believe that the word of god will always trump that of some woman with a fake doctorate. and the bible says you should be put to death for having sex with animals.

  369. Guest

    no becuz im smart and you your not

  370. Guest

    Plus I have a new icon

  371. Guest

    Dropping facts on you does not mean "raging". And falling back trolling me only shows you're losing the argument. So you're calling a doctor a liar just because she disagrees with you? I'm glad that I'm making you this upset. I can keep this up for a long,long time. Check out my icon. It's the cover of "Understanding Bestiality & Zoophilia". You know,? that book that a DOCTOR wrote. HA! HA!

  372. Guest

    You are a contradiction. How can you use a book you say is a lie to support any supposed violent act that was in it. That would mean you would do what was in the Koran saying at the same time what was written in the Koran as being a lie being like a terrorist following what it said.

    God says thou shalt not kill, and to say God says kill is a contradiction.

    Did Jesus show us that contradiction? You are pinning all of your beliefs on two verses that you think is saying for a human to kill a human. Did Jesus teach us to be like that? You did not answer my question who do you think you are like the religions of Christs day or Jesus.

    Knowing we are a beast Ecc; 3; 18-20 jkv what do you say then, total annihilation of all life?

  373. Epicurus

    im calling you a fool for believing she is a doctor without actually looking up where she got her degree and the type of school it is.

    you are raging because you leave comment after comment, then when i dont respond you leave more. you are angry and raging. and the ONLY thing you have to support you is a fake doctor. that is sad.

    i dont mind you keeping this up, because as long as you are keeping this up i know you are not having sex with an animal. so im doing a good thing.

  374. Epicurus

    i say the book is a lie. i dont use it. YOU USE IT. you think it is true. and in that book it says that if you have sex with an animal you must be put to death. so now you are calling god wrong or a liar??? make up your mind. do you believe in god or do you just cherry pick the parts of the bible you want to hear?

    god says thou shalt not MURDER. murder is very different from kill. there are many passages in the bible that have god commanding people to kill people.

    i pin my position on the FACT that an animal is not able to make a rational choice because it isnt aware of the consequences and the situation fully. so it is immoral to USE that animal for your own pleasure. it is immoral.

    also the word in the bible "beast" meant all animals other than humans.

    man you are stupid. and you are letting everyone see how stupid you are.

  375. RPinther

    Ok, since I feel compelled to comment what does that say about me? And just so I have my facts straight, rowdyguy5, are you taking the position that there's absolutely nothing wrong with having sexual intercourse with animals?

    I also feel compelled to say that since Mr. Pinyan was on the "receiving end" of this encounter, i.e., he asked for it, that he or anyone else who does something as idiotic as this is not worthy of sympathy.

    Rowdyguy5, what are your thoughts on Mr. Pinyan and his unfortunate demise?

  376. Abby1980

    wow, you're weird

  377. Guest

    i not

  378. over the edge

    @rowdyguy5
    first off your "doctor " did get a diploma from a diploma mill a quick search will show that fact to anyone who wishes to actually look. but more importantly since you value a doctors opinion so much how many doctors that disagree with her would a person have to supply to you to sway your opinion? also as far as i know (did cursory search) bestiality is illegal in 32 states and falls under cruelty to animals laws in the others, so many educated and elected officials (i bet some of them are doctors) passed laws to prevent what you support. also there isn't a large push to change these laws so i suspect that the overwhelming majority agree with said laws. so at the least you support criminals and at worst are one. if all this "evidence" proven by "doctors" exists why hasn't the law been changed?

  379. Guest

    So then? by your logic you're raging too since you're responding to all my comments on your chan and mine. That bull**** works both ways. And it only takes me a minute to type and post something so it doesn't really take a big chunk out of my day. She is a real doctor and she has a Ph.D. in psychology and sexology. It's funny watching you tell lie after lie and making yourself look like a complete ***hole. Dr. Hani Miletski is a world famous doctor that has done the most research on zoophilia and zoophiles. Don't worry, i'll be back to drop more facts on you.

  380. Guest

    It's very clear you want me to stop posting on your account. You aren't fooling anyone. You're no different than abortion protesters that shout "BABY KILLER!" and "BABY MURDER" to try and take advantage of people's emotions. You can't win every battle trying to play on people's emotions. People are not stupid like you think they are.

  381. Guest

    she is a real doctor

  382. over the edge

    @rowdyguy5
    how about addressing the rest of my post.

  383. Epicurus

    what do you mean my chan? i dont have a channel. im only responding here. im responding to you because it would be impolite for me not to and because i need to correct you when you are wrong.

    she doesnt have a SINGLE degree in psychology. you are lying.

    she has a Phd from a degree mill in sexology. it couldnt get less real than that. and again she doesnt have a single degree in psychology. you keep saying that because i think you think therapy means psychology. but it doesnt.

    its funny watching you tell lie after lie to try and defend your sick urge to have sex with poor defenseless animals. you are disgusting.

  384. Epicurus

    would you have sex with a chimpanzee?

  385. Epicurus

    well some animals are not even aware that they are looking at themselves in a mirror. even a toddler can pass that test.

  386. Epicurus

    are you the same person as mrgameboy03?

  387. Rhodium1233

    Assistant - " It looks like this animal was abused Doc"
    Veterinarian- "We'll cut off his balls"
    Assistant- " I think that's the humane thing to do here Doc"
    Veterinarian- " Shut up and get me my scalpel already"
    Assistant- " It Kinda looks like Ms.Sandros from down the street ....she has a bit of that Sarah Jessica Parker thing going on"

    Veterinarian - " Shut up you , this is a one horse-face town"

    - THe END-

  388. Guest

    Dropping facts on you and It's telling you the truth. If you want to keep lying and trying to tell everyone bullshit, that's your choice. Dr. Hani Miletski is a real doctor with a Ph.D. in psychology and sexology. Your lies will not change the truth. Her opinion matters more than yours,? a lot more. Because you are not a doctor. Besides, I wouldn't be trying to accuse anyone of whining if I were you. You have made a whole chan devoted completely to bitching about zoophilia. Doesn't matter though because a doctors's opinion beats the hell out of yours.

  389. Guest

    yes i would and are you mad because? I keep dropping facts on you like Dr. Hani Miletski being a doctor with a Ph.D. ? I think it does piss you off, that's why you keep lying. This is actually fun to watch.

  390. Guest

    4chan

  391. Vlatko

    @Epicurus,

    Yes he is. @mrgameboy03 = @rowdyguy5

    I just don't understand these people. What is the need of trolling with two nicks. One is enough.

  392. Epicurus

    lol everyone reading this comment section already knows im right. go away you are embarrassing yourself. and why are you using two different names?

    i havent made any chan. i dont know what you are talking about. not only are you so mentally disturbed that you like to have sex with animals but now it is clear that you are insane and not making any sense.

    can you show me where it says she has a degree in psychology? tell me where she got this psychology degree.

    Dr. Phillipe J. Rushton is a professor of psychology. he is also quoted as saying "Blacks in the Caribbean, Britain, Canada and sub-Saharan Africa as well as in the United States have low IQ scores relative to whites."

    so because he is a doctor does that automatically mean he is right?

  393. Epicurus

    can you drop the fact of where you saw that she has a degree in psychology. just copy and paste that.

  394. Epicurus

    do we ban it? what do we do? lol

  395. Vlatko

    @Epicurus,

    Nah, let it go.

  396. Guest

    copy and paste what?

  397. Guest

    What's that? You want me to see a doctor? Okay, i'll go see Dr. Hani Miletski. Oh wait, she says there is nothing wrong with me. HA! HA!? HA! **** you!!!!

  398. Guest

    Dr.? Hani Miletski has a Ph.D. in psychology and sexology. You hate the truth, don't you?

  399. Guest

    Now I know you went to her website. So you can't lie out of this. It says she is a Psychotherapist on her website. Someone needs a Ph.D. in Psychology to be a Psychotherapist.

  400. over the edge

    @rowdyguy5
    you stated "Someone needs a Ph.D. in Psychology to be a Psychotherapist" no they don't here are just some of they possible ways to qualify as a psychotherapist

    "Psychotherapy is a general term referring to therapeutic interaction or treatment contracted between a trained professional and a client or patient; family, couple or group. The problems addressed are psychological in nature and of no specific kind or degree, but rather depend on the specialty of the practitioner.

    Psychotherapy aims to increase the individual's sense of his/her own well-being. Psychotherapists employ a range of techniques based on experiential relationship building, dialogue, communication and behavior change that are designed to improve the mental health of a client or patient, or to improve group relationships (such as in a family).

    Psychotherapy may also be performed by practitioners with a number of different qualifications, including psychiatry, clinical psychology, counseling psychology, clinical or psychiatric social work, mental health counseling, marriage and family therapy, rehabilitation counseling, school counseling, play therapy, music therapy, art therapy, drama therapy, dance/movement therapy, occupational therapy, psychiatric nursing, psychoanalysis and those from other psychotherapies. It may be legally regulated, voluntarily regulated or unregulated, depending on the jurisdiction. Requirements of these professions vary, but often require graduate school and supervised clinical experience. Psychotherapy in Europe is increasingly being seen as an independent profession, rather than being restricted to being practiced only by psychologists and psychiatrists as is stipulated in some countries." source wikipedia.

    just a piece of advice if you are going to be arrogant please try to be right. because being both arrogant and wrong just makes you look foolish. by the way posting under two names wow if i had any respect for you it would be gone. that is amusingly dishonest and childish but i shouldn't be surprised i guess

  401. Epicurus

    prove it. where did she get her Phd in psychology?

  402. Epicurus

    "Someone needs a Ph.D. in Psychology to be a Psychotherapist."

    LOLOLOLOLOLOL no they dont you m*ron.

  403. Epicurus

    i think we lost as soon as we thought we would be able to rationalize with someone who has sex with animals and uses blatant logical fallacies to justify doing so....

    oh well. hopefully he gets caught one day.

  404. Guest

    Dr. Hani Miletski is the doctor, not you. She says it is not a disorder. She has also done more research on zoophilia than any other doctor. It says she is a psychotherapist right on her website. A person needs a degree in psychology to be a psychotherapist. I'm going to go over this again and again with you until it sinks into your thick skull. A PERSON NEEDS A DEGREE IN PSYCHOLOGY TO BE A PSYCHOTHERAPIST. I understand? that you are the kind of person that needs things repeated over and over again until you fully understand.

    Just because you find one doctor that is incompetent or has a bias doesn't mean ALL doctors are fools and can't be taken seriously. I hope more people read? "Understanding Bestiality & Zoophilia". It really is a good and interesting book to read with actual facts in it. I read positive reviews from it to.

  405. Guest

    Does anyone on this page have a Ph.D. in psychology and sexology? Dr. Hani Miletski does. Notice the "Dr." in front of her name. Does anyone here have a "Dr." in front of their name? She says it's? not a disorder and it's alright for people to have sex with animals as long as nobody is hurt. She also concluded from her studies that zoophiles come from all walks of life and don't fit into stereotypes.

  406. over the edge

    @rowdyguy5
    did you even read my response? also her own website lists her qualifications the following is from her own site

    "Hani Miletski, Ph.D., M.S.W., is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker with a Master's degree in Social Work from the Catholic University of America, National School of Social Service, in Washington, DC. She holds a Doctoral degree in Human Sexuality from the Institute for Advanced Study of Human Sexuality, in San Francisco, CA.

    Hani is a Certified Sex Therapist (Diplomate) and Supervisor by the American Association of Sexuality Educators, Counselors, and Therapists "
    where in there does it list a Ph.D psychology ? your claim is false please give me one link stating she has a Ph.D. in psychology . if not admit that on top of being dishonest you are also wrong

  407. over the edge

    @Epicurus,
    i believe you are correct on the first part and i hope you are on the second

  408. Epicurus

    no a person does not need a degree in psychology to be a psychotherapist. especially not in the state of california.

    I actually have a degree in psychology. and i got it from a real school.

    just because you found one fake doctor that is incompetent and has a bias doesnt mean all doctors are fools and cant be taken seriously....

    maybe i will repeat it over and over so YOU understand.

    Psychotherapy may also be performed by practitioners with a number of different qualifications, including psychiatry, clinical psychology, counseling psychology, clinical or psychiatric social work, mental health counseling, marriage and family therapy, rehabilitation counseling, school counseling, play therapy, music therapy, art therapy, drama therapy, dance/movement therapy, occupational therapy, psychiatric nursing, psychoanalysis and those from other psychotherapies. It may be legally regulated, voluntarily regulated or unregulated, depending on the jurisdiction.

    Psychotherapy may also be performed by practitioners with a number of different qualifications, including psychiatry, clinical psychology, counseling psychology, clinical or psychiatric social work, mental health counseling, marriage and family therapy, rehabilitation counseling, school counseling, play therapy, music therapy, art therapy, drama therapy, dance/movement therapy, occupational therapy, psychiatric nursing, psychoanalysis and those from other psychotherapies. It may be legally regulated, voluntarily regulated or unregulated, depending on the jurisdiction.

    Psychotherapy may also be performed by practitioners with a number of different qualifications, including psychiatry, clinical psychology, counseling psychology, clinical or psychiatric social work, mental health counseling, marriage and family therapy, rehabilitation counseling, school counseling, play therapy, music therapy, art therapy, drama therapy, dance/movement therapy, occupational therapy, psychiatric nursing, psychoanalysis and those from other psychotherapies. It may be legally regulated, voluntarily regulated or unregulated, depending on the jurisdiction.

    maybe if you went to school instead of spending your time having sex with animals you would be able to grasp this very simple concept.

    you dont need to have a degree in psychology to be a therapist. you also dont seem to understand what a degree mill is. you are a waste of our resources.

  409. Guest

    I know you think you're really smart but a doctor's opinion will always beat yours no matter what you say. And Dr.Hani Miletski has done more research on zoophilia than any? other doctor. She's done more research than Dr. Ascione. Your followers mean dick compared to an expert opinion from somebody with a Ph.D. You can say what ever you want. It doesn't change the fact that she's a doctor and she actually knows what she's talking about. The book she wrote is being read by experts around the world and is actually changing the way people think. Your YT account means nothing to experts and other people with a Ph.D.

  410. Epicurus

    lol what are you talking about?
    i never even mentioned youtube. you are nuts man. you are too intellectually vapid to follow a conversation, or present a cogent argument.

    you have made yourself look like a r*tard to everyone reading. you keep repeating yourself even after people show you that she isnt a real doctor.

    both over the edge and I have shown you that her "school" is a degree mill. all the teachers at that school got their degrees form that school. in academia we call that academic incest. it is frowned upon because it shows that they are afraid of peer review.

    The book that you love so much doesnt say that zoophilia is OKAY. it says that it is a sexual orientation and not just a fetish. that is very very different from what you are trying to say.

    in no way is she an expert on animals, she is not a psychologist and she is not a philosopher. so what makes HER an authority on having sex with animals? she doesnt understand human or animal psychology and she doesnt fully grasp ethics or morality.

    PS: why were you using two different names to comment on here?

  411. Guest

    one im not nut and is not a easy job tell people about the new sexuality (zoophilia)
    i have make 209 back up account (like facebook, youtube, disqus, myspace, google+ etc)so i can tell the truth about zoophilia and put the end all hate.... but now i know i cant do this all by my self so im going get my zoo friend to help me

  412. Guest

    You calling anyone dishonest and childish screams hypocrisy. Considering how much lying you have been doing from the start and your "tactics''. Are you aware that all someone has to do is type Dr. Hani Miletski into a search engine and see that you were not telling the truth about her? And somebody pointed out that she studied in California. In the state of California someone needs a Ph.D. in Psychology to be a Psychotherapist. It's funny watching you scramble to twist the truth and get? tangled in your own bullshit.

  413. Guest

    one im not nut and is not a easy job tell people about the new sexuality (zoophilia)
    i have make 209 back up account (like facebook, youtube, disqus, myspace, google+ etc)so i can tell the truth about zoophilia and put the end all hate.... but now i know i cant do this all by my self so im going get my zoo friend to help me

    It would be a good thing if? more people read an unbiased study like Understanding Bestiality & Zoophilia.

    p.s Dr. Hani Miletski earned her doctorate in clinical Psychology from Indiana University. Next time do a little more? research before you jump the gun and try to insult people.

  414. Guest

    It would be a good thing if? more people read an unbiased study like Understanding Bestiality & Zoophilia.

  415. Guest

    PS: why were you using two different names to comment on here? < like i said that account is not my

  416. over the edge

    @rowdyguy5
    please point out my lies. direct quotes if you don't mind also provide the proof (with sources).

  417. Guest

    all of it

  418. over the edge

    @rowdyguy5
    lol you are completely irrational. you have no interest in any kind of debate or exchange of facts and opinions. you have made assertions but provided absolutely no proof of anything. not one source provided and when your claims are shown to be lies (with proof and source) you call them lies without anything to back that up. in closing you are obviously a sick individual who can only handle those opinions that reenforce your views. i feel sorry for you, almost as much as i feel sorry for the innocent animals you rape

  419. Epicurus

    "p.s Dr. Hani Miletski earned her doctorate in clinical Psychology from Indiana University. Next time do a little more? research before you jump the gun and try to insult people."

    wow now you are going to blatantly LIE?? thats a shame. NO WHERE does it say she got any degree from that school. you are an out right liar and no longer worth my attention.

    no need to leave me 11 comments anymore.

  420. Epicurus

    yes it is. you both have the same IP address. and are both located in the same city and state.

  421. Guest

    ok what is my ip address?

  422. Epicurus

    well im not going to post it here for the world to see.

    but why are you lying?

    oh and the IP you are using NOW is different from the one you were using yesterday. but they all point to the same place.

  423. Achems_Razor

    Epicurus is right about the IP address. Do not know why anyone is even talking with you, you are apparently deranged!

    Leave them animals alone!!

  424. over the edge

    @rowdyguy5
    ok i went to your link. it states "Miletski Hani PhD is a Psychologist facility and is located in Bethesda, MD." look at the wording all it says is that it is a Psychologist facility that only means a Psychologist works there not that she is one. again HER OWN WEBSITE does not claim a degree in psychology but she does have a masters in social work which qualifies her as a psychotherapist. i will not be answering anymore of your posts you are too dense to understand logic and the facts.

  425. RPinther

    You poor, poor soul rg5. Take a breath, stop being so defensive and just get some help, ok? I bet that if any of us looked hard enough we could find someone saying they have the proper "credentials" to support our beliefs. Not gonna judge you, your doctor or your god. I love animals, but there is a divide, and it's called consciousness. They are not us, and we are not them, but I could see how one could project all of their longing onto an animal that they perceive as "innocent" or "faithful", etc, but it's all just a projection of our own needs/desires, and what better a being to project onto than another organism that does not judge? The more people I meet, the more I like my dog, because.... animals don't judge b/c they lack that level of consciousness, and maybe that's not a bad thing, but it's that exact same limitation that prevents them from having emotions/thoughts & RELATIONSHIPS on the same level of us humans. I say "on the same level of" b/c I'm making space for dolphins, elephants, primates, what-have-you that have exhibited potential conscious or relationship traits, but are in no way the same as us. A lot of that stuff has gotta be primal/instinctive/survival based. Even if you want to go the other way and say they are more advanced than us, you'd still be well advised to stay far far away and within your own species. At then end of the day, one needs to be honest with oneself and take a good hard look at what they are doing.

    That is where the self-diagnosed "zoos" need support to help them to come to terms with this concept.

  426. Guest

    If this doc is as weird as this comment exchange it must be the wierdess of the weirdess. What does a guy have to say to get kicked out?
    az

  427. Guest

    I think it's incredibly sad... Everyone has some cross to bear in their life, something they have to fight against, something they know they should fight against... I can't help thinking he's not only looking for support and confirmation from this "doctor," but maybe from someone here, as well, and it would be very bad for him, I think, if anyone were to give it to him. IF he is, in fact, doing that, some part of him is not at all comfortable with these ideas, it seems to me.

  428. Guest

    @Py, although i think the way you approach this is very human and compassionate, my opinion is that this guy is sitting at his computer laughing his assss off. He cannot be serious. He keeps repeating the same words over and over again for one FULL week now, most of it looks copied and pasted. I don't understand why Epicurus has paid attention to this guy for so long.
    az

  429. Guest

    Yeah, maybe... He does seem stuck in a loop, a very bad loop. If this is his idea of a sense of humor, he'd be well advised to take some lessons, or something.

    edit- Example: Although I LOVE how my little guy looks in this avatar, I look a lot like Josef Stalin... lol. *Rocker Communist lays down the thump*

  430. Guest

    I usually like to sit back and watch these long running conversations, see how they end and maybe have a giggle on the way. This one makes me uncomfortable though, I think Epicurus is a good guy, hanging in there. Maybe he just needs to talk it out :)

  431. Guest

    Every website I have seen about Dr. Hani? Miletski contradicts what you're saying about her. And other people that talk about her contradict what you're saying about her. You are wrong about Dr. Hani Miletski. She is a real doctor.

  432. Guest

    You are the one who denies equality.

    Get back to your kkk? meeting.

  433. Guest

    Zoosexuality is not a disease, it is not a sickness, it is not wrong or immoral. It is a sexuality like any other, an emotional and physical attraction. The only difference from other sexualities is that it deals with other animals besides humans.

    Yes, non-human animals can experience love. Don't be so bigoted as to think they can't.

    "There is such thing as true love. True love is a feeling which expands beyond what a person looks like. True love is what you feel when you know that the one returning your love knows you and will be there forever for you, unconditionally. True love does not know skin color, deformity, eye color, race, gender, age, or even species. Especially species. "
    --A quote from CaninePleasure, that was beautifully written.

  434. Achems_Razor

    @rowdyguy5:

    You are making George Orwell rollover in his grave, he wrote "Animal Farm" just for the likes of you.

  435. Epicurus

    "big fat liar"

    what are you, 12?

    i have already hinted in one of my other posts, the state you live in.

    im not going to post on the internet your state, city, or IP address. that would not be very responsible of me.

    you do realize though that i am a moderator on this website and i am able to see the IP address of everyone who posts?

    you know that right?

  436. Guest

    i made the mistake of commenting at the wrong place

  437. Guest

    You made me have my very first laugh this morning!
    az

  438. Guest

    I did read that Dr. Hani Miletski has a Ph.D. in psychology and sexology. She is a doctor no matter how much you try to twist the facts. Why would she be working at a psychologist facility if she wasn't a psychologist? Dr. Hani Miletski is a real doctor with a Ph.D. in psychology and sexology. And she says that what people do is alright as long as no animals are hurt. She understands that zoosexuality is a real orientation and people should be free to do what they want.? Weather you respond to my posts or not I will be back to drop more facts.

  439. Samuel Morrissey

    Popcorn anyone?

  440. Guest

    It's not only that he says unbelievable or believable things, it is that he keeps repeating and pasting the same thing over and over again about this woman having a degree....and now he is throwing insults.
    But i now see as you did, that he is seriously thinking animal sexuality is perfectly right.
    Now what, should we jointly give him a psychological session?
    I am sure there are a lot of people who engage with cats and dogs in kinky sex, at least on the receiving end, most would not come on the net and blantly admit it.
    Dawn Thomans brought some good points.
    I am out of here.
    oink oink oink (those are my three k)
    az

  441. Guest

    I like Epicurus too...smart, respectful, strong will.
    az

  442. Guest

    Cocktails above the door....
    az

  443. Guest

    becuse you dont have it...
    if you the i will be at McDonalds using McDonalds free wifi you dumbass

  444. Guest

    I did read that Dr. Hani Miletski has a Ph.D. in psychology and sexology. She is a doctor no matter how much you try to twist the facts. Why would she be working at a psychologist facility if she wasn't a psychologist? Dr. Hani Miletski is a real doctor with a Ph.D. in psychology and? sexology. And she says that what people do is alright as long as no animals are hurt. She understands that zoosexuality is a real orientation and people should be free to do what they want. Weather you respond to my posts or not I will be back to drop more facts.

    The Fogel Foundation? says Dr. Hani Miletski has a Bachelor's Degree in Psychology from the University of Maryland. With all the evidence stacking up it sure does look like she has a degree in psychology. It also says in her book that the information in it was peer reviewed by other doctors.

  445. Epicurus

    she is a sex therapist. it is VERY different from psychologist. but yes a therapist would work in a psychology office. but that doesnt mean she has a degree in psychology.

    so for the last time she has a phd from a school which is not accredited nor respected.

    now after looking at the fogel foundation it does say she got a Bachelor's Degree in Psychology from the University of Maryland, however i have an honor degree in psychology from the University of Toronto. so my psychology credentials are better than hers.

    now the book only claims that we should classify zoophilia as a sexual orientation rather than a fetish. but it doesnt make the argument that sex with animals is ethical or okay in any way.

  446. Epicurus

    lol i dont even understand what this sentence attempted to say.

  447. Epicurus

    lol is it conceited for me to like this comment?

  448. Guest

    Looks like I win? since you want to give up. Read Understanding Bestiality & Zoophilia and maybe you'll get it.

  449. Epicurus

    what do you mean "you want to get up"?

    im surprised you even know how to use the internet.

    looks like to me and everyone reading that you lost the second you started speaking on here.

    lol nice hma email address. weirdo.

  450. Guest

    **** you.... **** you because Dr. Hani Miletski said herself that? people should be free to do what they want as long as no animals are hurt. And anybody can go on the internet and say " you have psychologist and blah blah blah". nobody even knows who you are. All you are doing is accusing a doctor of Ph.D. fraud with nothing to back it up. And you must be a total st*pid d*ck because you can not write a book and put Ph.D. on the cover when you don't have a Ph.D. and then make money off the book because THAT IS CALLED PHD FRAUD. How st*pid are you?

  451. Guest

    Dr. Hani Miletski has done more research on zoophilia and zoophiles than any other doctor with a Ph.D. You can not go around making money off of books claiming to have a Ph.D. when you don't. You clearly? are too stupid to understand what Ph.D. fraud is.

    This? kid is ******* stupid.

  452. Epicurus

    it wouldnt be fraud if the degree was from a degree mill.

    and dont get mad at me because you abuse animals. be mad at yourself.

  453. Epicurus

    it wouldnt be fraud if the degree was from a degree mill.

  454. Epicurus

    how does she know no animals are hurt?

  455. Guest

    Why should I be mad? I'm winning all the arguments. I read? the book reviews for Dr. Hani Miletski's book "Understanding Bestiality & Zoophilia. I don't see anyone saying she is a fraud or a fake doctor. It looks like you're full of ****. And clearly I am winning this debate because all you can come back with is "U MAD". You are going to have to do better than that. You're not going to get me to stop with trolling memes. I'm going to keep dropping facts on you. Maybe if you actually read her book you would see that she is a legit and real doctor.

  456. Epicurus

    i havent said any meme towards you.

    just another sign that you are a mentally disturbed child.

    you have seen two people on here try to explain to you that the school she got the phd from is a degree mill and you are too thick to understand that.

    whats mind boggling is that you keep thinking you are "winning" arguments....wow true delusion.

    honestly. GET HELP. you are a sick disturbed individual and you are immoral.

  457. Guest

    Don't be mad because a doctor with a Ph.D. says that it's okay to be zoosexual. Though I can see why you would be mad because a doctor's opinion will always beat yours. She doesn't think sex with animals is abuse. Why should I be mad at myself? From an expert opinion there is nothing wrong with me.? *yawn* I'm going to have a good nights sleep now. ( :

  458. Epicurus

    do you believe in god?

    stephen hawking has a Phd and says there is no god.

    and of course anything anybody with a phd says is true.

    also she said its okay to be zoosexual, but its not okay to act on it. just like someone might not be able to help that they are attracted to children but they have to make sure they dont act on it.

    because in both cases a being is being exploited.

    but i have gone over this over and over and you are too much of a simpleton to understand this very simple concept.

    you are going to sleep at 3 in the afternoon? get a job and stop having sex with animals. maybe go get yourself an education. waste of life.

  459. Guest

    I went to? Dr. Hani Miletski's website and I read that she is strongly against child abuse. You people are simply lying to try and ruin her reputation. If I thought I needed help I would go see Dr. Hani Miletski. She knows more about zoophilia and zoophiles than any other doctor. Because she has done more research on the subject than any other doctor. You can bring up any doctor you want because Dr. Hani Miletski knows more than they do. She did the research and talked about it when all the other doctors were afraid to.

  460. Guest

    Dr. Hani Miletski says that it's alright for people to have sex with animals as long as nobody is harmed. Again, her opinion has more weight to it than yours because she's a doctor. Plus she's done a lot more research? on zoophilia than you have. She's in the documentary "Animal Passions".

  461. Epicurus

    so why is it abuse to have sex with a child but not to have sex with an animal?

    what if the child wants it? what if you dont hurt the child? could you explain to me the difference between sex with a young child and sex with an animal? do you think the animal is more intelligent than a child so is able to make that type of decision?

  462. Guest

    Comparing animals to children is just a red herring argument. We eat animals, hunt animals, wear animals, breed animals, etc. But when it comes to having sex with animals all of a sudden people get uncomfortable with this and say the animal is being "exploited". Maybe they should pass laws against people eating, hunting, wearing animals. And all the other things people use animals for too. I like coming back here to piss all over your account. ( : Don't get mad. And no I don't believe in god.(sometime) You do know that I'm not going to stop, right?

  463. Epicurus

    yes they should pass laws that keep people from farming and eating and hunting and wearing animals.

    however my analogy here was the level of cognition in the two (animals and children)

    so you are saying that because we eat and hunt animals we ought to be justified to have sex with them? sorry sir, but speaking of logical fallacies, that is a non-sequitor. it is also called tu quoque.

    try again. why is it okay to have sex with animals but not drunk people, r*tarded people or young children?

  464. RachelPetersen

    I got a bit lost with both of your arguing. Human beings are psychologically much more complex than animals. Animals will mate in front of others, they don't feel shame or regret associated with sexual or other bodily functions.
    Children are affected very badly if they have been sexually abused. It can lead to all kinds of mental health disorders and issues of trust and wellbeing.
    Morality should not be based on disgust. It could be based on weighing up potential harm versus freedom to act as we please, for example.
    If an adult human chooses to be penetrated sexually by an animal then that shoukd be their perogative. I think that criminalising it would only infringe on the humans right to act anyway they like as long as it does no harm to others or physically harm an animal.
    And debating whether zooaphilia is a real condition is arbitrary as it will vary from country to country. It is obviously something that affects a small minority of people and is real. I haven't studied the demographics of people with this particular urges but if in other ways they are mentally competent and healthy then it should be called a type of sexuality.
    What have arguments about the qualifications of this 'expert' matter anyway. Her opinion is still just her opinion, just like both of yours.

  465. Epicurus

    he said the person was a doctor and therefore anything they said would outweigh what i said. i told him that was a logical fallacy called appeal to authority then went on to tell him this person he hold so dear got their degree from a degree mill.

    now someone being penetrated by an animal doesnt harm anyone. so lets say we take a r*tarded human and let them penetrate you, lets say this r*tarded person suffers amnesia each hour and never remembers anything...would it be wrong to have sex with them?

  466. Guest

    okay, i can't tell if these are serious arguments or if you guys are just screwing around. So i'm just gonna say HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! I didn't say eat the SAME animal that somebody just ****** but that would add the special sauce. Anyway, red herring argument alert below and above this comment. Your arguments are so? st*pid only a child could take them seriously. That's like asking why is it okay to hunt and shoot a deer but not okay to do the same to a human child. Pure id**cy! Please, vegans use those same red herring arguments and only ****** fall for them. PETA tries to compare anyone that eats meat to Nazis. And you guys try the same red herring bull****.

  467. Guest

    If your arguments held up in the real world then we would all be guilty of murder every time we killed an animal for ANY reason.? You are simply using the same red herring bull**** arguments that groups like PETA use and vegans use to try and tell other people how to live. And yes, Dr. Hani Miletski points this out too. I'm not the only one that thinks the antizoophilia arguments are bull****.

  468. Guest

    So, you are justifying what YOU want to do to animals simply because it's? inconvenient to YOU to change? I bet if you had a sexual attraction to animals you would be calling yourself PROzoophilia too!

  469. Epicurus

    first off, do you see all the editing that has to be done to your posts? do you think maybe you could act like an adult if you want to have a discussion with one? thanks, lets just try to be a big boy now.

    i have no idea what you are talking about. i didnt say that you said anything about eating the same animal you just had sex with.

    IT IS NOT OKAY TO HUNT AND KILL ANIMALS.

    IT IS NOT OKAY TO HAVE SEX WITH THEM EITHER.

    if you are not allowed to have sex with children or drunk people then you cant have sex with animals.

    the animal has the same mentality as a child or a drunk adult. the fact that they are not fully aware of the consequences and are not complete moral agents, you are taking advantage of them. just like someone who hunts and eats them.

    what is funny is that you are either so angry or so dumb that you cant follow what im saying.

    you keep asking why its okay to hunt and eat animals but not have sex with them and i say it is not okay to eat and hunt animals and it is not okay to have sex with them. you do not get to USE animals for your own amusement and comfort. you are a sick person and clearly not a very smart person because you cant seem to follow my arguments. you need help as im sure many many people including your family have told you.

  470. Epicurus

    is she a philosopher?

    Peter Singer is a Phd in philosophy and discuses the ethics and morality of eating and having sex with animals and he says its wrong....and since he is a doctor anything he says is correct and everything you say is wrong......lol

  471. Epicurus

    no im justifying what i want done to animals based on what they would also want done to themselves.

    do you think they want to be farmed and eaten? or hunted?

    if i had sexual attractions to animals i would go get myself help and i would never act on it.

  472. Guest

    If you think it's not okay to kill and eat animals then why don't you ever express it? Do you eat meat? Because if you do and still think it's wrong to kill and eat animals then that makes you a hypocrite. All these experts you're bringing up have not done half the research on zoophilia and zoophiles that Dr. Hani Miletski has.

  473. Guest

    If you think it's wrong to kill and eat animals then you should express this on here. Why are you just focused on sex with animals? Are you afraid that people won't take you seriously if they knew your whole agenda here? That you also think hunting is wrong and eating meat is wrong. You're going to have a tough time convincing people to stop eating meat. And if you're going to do a 180 degree turn here and say that it's now okay to eat meat, then that's not going to make any sense after what you just stated previously.

  474. Guest

    Dr. Hani Miletski is one of the top rated psychotherapists dealing with sexual issues. She says that it's not a disorder and that people should be free to do what they want as long? as no animals are hurt.

  475. Epicurus

    I would express it on a documentary about eating meat or hunting animals. but we are not on that documentary now. we are here discussing having sex with animals.

    do I eat meat? no.

    but i smoke cigarettes and say smoking cigarettes is bad for you. i might be a hypocrite but that doesnt make me wrong.

    how do you know how much research the people i am bringing up have done, and like i said before Hani doesnt have a degree in animal psychology or in philosophy so her say on whether or not it is ethical doesnt matter.

  476. Epicurus

    you are nuts clearly.

  477. Epicurus

    lies. where does she say that people should be allowed to have sex with animals?

    show me the quote and the page its from.

  478. Guest

    It doesn't make sense that society says licking a deer ***** would be "abuse" but shooting the deer would be perfectly acceptable. Just because you can't find all the things that Dr. Hani Miletski has said doesn't mean she didn't say it. With all the research you clearly did on her I'm sure you found it but you just don't want to admit it. Keep in mind that other people besides your? self can use search engines to find the information. Dr. Hani Miletski has done more research on this subject than you so her opinion does matter more on this subject than your's.

  479. Guest

    If you have so many questions about Dr. Hani Miletski then you should read Understanding Bestiality & Zoophilia. You will learn some new things. i'll be back to drop? more facts. Ciao! < yes, I said it. HA!

  480. Epicurus

    all you have to do is open your copy of the book and type the quote. unless it doesnt exist and you are a liar.

  481. Epicurus

    cant wait

  482. Guest

    what?

  483. Epicurus

    yes you are a liar. and i cant wait for you to be back to drop more "facts" such as the quote from the doctor you hold so dear that says it is okay to have sex with animals.

  484. Guest

    On m.newsbusters.org I found a quote from Dr. Hani Miletski. She said " I don't think it should be illegal, I think they should let people do what they want to do as long as they don't hurt anybody."

  485. Epicurus

    i found it. it said

    Ultimately, she doesn't think there's anything to be gained by making sex with animals a crime. "I don't think it should be illegal," said Miletski. "I think they should let people do what they want to do as long as they don't hurt anybody."

    okay so as long as no one is hurt she thinks it should be okay. it also says in the article that she bases this information on interviewing 82 men and 11 women, all zoophiles.

    not a single psychologist would call that a good study. an interview study asking the people about their interactions does not give enough objective information.

    im sorry but if this is all it takes for you to feel that what you are doing is right then you are suffering from severe confirmation bias.

  486. Guest

    multitudes of viruses animals have which is harmless to them, but can be quite lethal in human population."?Dogs only have around 9 zoonosis that any human can get though normal contact with an infected animal. Humans have 30+ STDs and hundreds more of diseases that you can get by non-sexual contact with an infected person. We know what diseases we can get and we know it is far more dangerous to have sex with a human as they can infect} you with more diseases than an animal can.
    "It only takes ONE PERSON to get infected to start a worldwide epidemic."?That has never happened in 20,000 years. Eating? animals or farming animals is way more dangerous than ******* them when it comes to getting humans infected with zoonosis.

  487. Guest

    Look who's talking. You're the one that uses the opinion of a doctor that has not done half the research that Dr. Hani Miletski has done. She is more of a valid expert on the subject than any of those other people you dragged into this. If you want to talk about confirmation bias then take a look at yourself. Keep in mind that Understanding Bestiality & Zoophilia was published in 2002. She has been studying? and doing more research on zoophilia since then.

  488. Epicurus

    no she isnt. she did a survey. which equals about nothing

  489. Lana Burley

    let's just keep it simple.
    If you want to have sex with an animal and actually crave it, and not a human...you are absolutely disgusting.
    they are innocent, and by doing this you are taking control and power over an innocent being.
    Disgusting, I feel sorry for you that you can't get it from a person so your next step is to abuse an animal.
    You should be jailed...it's unsafe for anyone to be around you if you need to do that.
    And so what if this doctor has a PHD, shes clearly into animals herself. Only someone who would also have sex with animals would say it is okay.
    Every single person I know would think you're crazy & probably sit in your room day in day out thinking you are too. Good luck in the world you abnormal freak.

  490. Guest

    You don't know what you're talking about because you didn't read her book. She said that the research on zoophilia needs to be ongoing. She has been studying zoophilia for many years. You are trying to disregard and ignore actual knowledge? simply because it disagrees with your beliefs. And that right there is true ignorance.

  491. Epicurus

    so you admit that she said the research needs to be ongoing? all she did was question some people. she has NO authority. she is right that there needs to be more research in the field and it needs to be more objective rather than a questionnaire.

    but anyone who has gone to school for anything related to science would know this...so i dont expect you to understand.

    btw what level of education do you have?

  492. Guest

    did you even read her book?

  493. shannie

    First off, eating and wearing animals fur or skin, falls into the area of survival. F****** an animal will do nothing to further mankind and never did. You're argument is lame.

  494. shannie

    I'd be an expert to if I sat in an office did nothing but watch video of men humping donkeys...Grow up ****tard.

  495. shannie

    You're post is unbelievable. I'm grossed out by you...

  496. Guest

    K,J,V, Philippians 2:3; Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Those who war, and persecute the bestialist zoosexual are seeking vainglory. Heavenly beings were in lots house minding their own business. The humans outside were not minding their own business. The oppressors of the zoosexual, and others others are using the legal system emulating the Gomorrahean,s who rushed lots house not minding their own business.

    Jesus in whoever would not care about what kind of sex you did anymore than your pooch. Matthew 25;40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Oppress anyone, and oppress Jesus at the same time.This means the abusers are the ones against the zoo acting like the humans? that harassed Jesus when he walked among men. Jesus is in the zoo. That is why they are being harassed.

  497. Guest

    I want to give life, and,... well ,....you don't. God in humans wants to give life. It should be obvioiuse who you follow.

  498. Guest

    Warmongers will eschew love not willing to hug anyone. Epicurus, are you willing to do what a devil will not be willing to do, and that is be kind, compassionate, loving, tender, gentle, slow to anger, humble giving edifying words being a peacemaker, wise, and harmless? When you are good words? will come out of you. A devil avoids those words because they are death to a devil. Show me Epicurus if you can resist a devil.

  499. Guest

    zoosexuality is a sexuality. Fear is given to them to not want to speak of it only when humans that would do them harm would not hear them speak. You are unequal. God is equal. Love is the narrow road. Hate is wide road. Both are apposed to each other. Wide road is the road you are on.

  500. Guest

    The zoo committing is no crime. They have sex. All life has sex. Not giving them peace is a crime in Gods eyes. The bad thing is to not being perfect in love. Love harms no man.

    Before sin non human animals did not fear man.

    When God makes all things new.
    Hosea 2:18 ;18And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.

    The thing of it is you at this time like battle.That means you wont be there. Chose to not to make battle with the zoo, and be there.

  501. over the edge

    @kobidobidog2
    using the bible to excuse your behavior really. now i am an atheist (and am getting tired of knowing the bible better than those of faith)but
    "Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death. (Exodus 22:19)
    "Cursed is the man who has sexual relations with any animal." Then all the people shall say, "Amen!" (Deuteronomy 27:21)

  502. shannie

    Take that bullshit and shove it.

  503. shannie

    Yeah, Jesus is a Zoo...you're sad.

  504. Guest

    Humble yourself, and your will accept the fact that whatever happens to the beast of the field happens to you.

  505. Guest

    Mr hard head, we are a beast. Look at the development of life in the womb of any animal, and see similarities to us. The animal, and us come into the world the same way. We leave in the same way too.

  506. Guest

    Don't be like Jesus ,and your soul will be evil. There? is much regarding your condemning character to say your soul is evil. Be like Jesus is who does not condemn, and I will not say your soul is evil.

    and to any one who hate zoophilia

  507. over the edge

    @kobidobidog2
    lol you make a claim i refute it you try to change the topic to deflect the fact you are wrong. attacking me does not make you any less wrong.

  508. Epicurus

    what?

  509. Epicurus

    i have no idea what you are talking about and i suggest you seek medical attention immediately.

  510. Epicurus

    lol im done with the crazies on this side of the internet...have fun. lol

  511. over the edge

    lol is this new crazy or same crazy another name?

  512. Guest

    Lets forget about words for a minute, and focus on behavior. Who do you think you act like? The ones against Jesus or the meek minding his own bushiness Jesus? Those verses are built upon hatred, not love. Jesus who minds his own business would not be calling for an attach on anyone. Calm down why don't you, and others will calm down with you. Heaven will not have rebel rousers like you in it. That means your assumptions are wrong reading from a perverted bible.

  513. over the edge

    i quoted from the same bible you did

  514. Achems_Razor

    @over the edge:

    Same IP address, so must be the same crazies with different names, or maybe a family of crazies, you know (mutants) or something. lol

  515. over the edge

    @Achems_Razor
    somehow i knew thanks achems

    @? you know what i will just call you Sybil i walked away from you once and i know enough to walk away again don't bother with any more replies to me

  516. Guest

    Ya, i say quit before ZOO becomes The Most Discussed Documentary on TDF
    We may have to change the order to The Most Discusting.
    az

  517. Achems_Razor

    Az, you got that right, these zootunes crazies must be from the same place where they made the movie deliverance. If you get my rift.

  518. Guest

    thank you for understanding that zoo are not bad people :)

  519. Epicurus

    no they are not. they are just like pedophiles. they need help. but they are not "bad people", just sick people.

  520. Guest

    why you said we are sick people?
    we are like normal people...

  521. Guest

    Regarding zoo sex ×ÉÄÅÏ Jesus does not go around doing what you are doing condemning videos. Knowing Jesus does not do that means the devil does that. Will you stop doing the devils work, and repent? One never knows when? God stops striving with the hearts of men. You don't Know when your life will end in this world of death.

    to anybody

  522. Epicurus

    normal people who need help. they are attracted to animals. that is a problem. it doesnt make them bad. just sick. as long as they dont act on it.

  523. Epicurus

    so anything that jesus DIDNT do in the bible automatically means that the devil does do and we must not do it?

    well jesus didnt have sex with animals. jesus didnt have a computer. jesus didnt have electricity....therefore the devil did and you shouldnt.

  524. Epicurus

    damn it, sucked back in......and i even know its the same guy....what is wrong with me?

  525. over the edge

    lol i had i feeling it was as well and i did the same.
    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
    Albert Einstein
    i guess we are both insane (kidding)

  526. Guest

    See how self destructive your thoughts are? What you are thinking ultimately could result in? genocide. To want to kill is the beginning of that end. Jesus is not for the killing of anyone.

  527. Epicurus

    where did anyone say anything about killing people?

    go see a psychiatrist. where is your family? dont they care enough about you to get you the help you clearly need?

  528. Guest

    Go away...we get what your ways are. It won't be possible for you to convince anyone of the good of your ways and obviously no one will change your mind about them either.
    So what do you want in the end? The whole world to start having sex with dogs and goats and whatever you're into?
    Go play with Kobi and make sure you tell Kobi, it's for YOUR pleasure.

    Don't you have any other interests? There are many good docs in the thousands that are here.
    az

  529. Epicurus

    sorry i deleted his comment to you. it was mumbo jumbo about jesus wanting to have sex with animals. im pretty much just going to delete everything he says.

  530. Guest

    I had a good laugh on this one...no more pity!...and they are multiplying...we are getting #2...let's just hope they don't clone fast.
    az

  531. Achems_Razor

    Good grief! I decided to look at Epics links, lmao. Can't believe people, er, those zoo type of sub-humans exist.

    No wonder Aliens never visit our planet, I would not either.

  532. Isaiah

    HA i know im rigth that why you del my post

  533. Isaiah

    Hey, guess what. Doctors, experts and therapists are reading Dr. Hani Miletski's studies because she's a doctor. And they're not reading what's on your page because you're just some guy.How does that make you feel? I'm sure all the experts care what you think...HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! HA! And of course Dr. Hani Miletski said the research needs to be ongoing. That's what doctors do. They KEEP studying their WHOLE LIVES. They don't stop doing research. That's why things like psychology keep advancing.
    Understanding Bestiality & Zoophilia is a 10 year old book. She has done a lot more research since then. BTW, you have a lot of confirmation bias in your profile text. You have old and out of date information in there. A lot of experts don't consider zoophilia a disorder of the mind anymore. Most of the experts that are working on the 5th DSM do not consider zoophilia by itself a disorder.

  534. ProudinUS

    WTF are you smoking kid......your lover's cat nip!? You can't be for real. Dld you just post that Jesus doesn't mind about your animal fr**king fetish??? Ah man, you ain't right. But Ill tell ya what, I've got a Basset Hound here that you can boink! Ya..no really! you two can do that internet sex thing. Ill hold my dog's a$$ up to the web cam and you can have at it...really! You don't have any weird diseases and work in a slaughter house do ya? Because the last thing I want to do is take a bite of a T-bone steak and catch the clap! So....ah..dam your nasty!...ah so, are you allowed around pet stores?....dog groomers?....horse races?....chicken farms?...ah, pig farms -hunting trips-dairy farms-hamster wheels-bird cages-fish tanks......ah hell! the list can go on and on. What I'm trying to get at is what is your animal of choice....chickens?..monkies?..turtles?..um..donkeys? Never mind, I don't want to know. Has your sick a$$ ever molested a blind persons handicap dog! No really, whose animal are you porking??? I mean when you see a cat cross the street do you pull a condom out of your wallet and give chase?? Sick f**k!

    PS. You do know that the story in the Bible about Jesus riding into town on a donkey wasn't a sex act....don't you???

  535. alliegurl

    Okay, first off, that was the worst "documentary" ever, and could hardly be classified as a documentary in MY opinion. It left out extreme amounts of information and didn't answer any of the questions one asks when hearing the story.

    The most annoying part of the documentary is that it pretty much ignores the entire sexual part of zoophiles or bestiality and whatnot, and instead focuses on this supposed loving and emotionally attached relationship between the man and animal, when the main plotline is the death of man due to ANAL SEX with an animal. To not focus on the actual sexuality and sexual intercourse makes this documentary fairly useless. On the topic of this "love" between the man and animal, what really bugs me about that is that these people are assuming the animal loves them back :| It's ridiculous. This animal is not in a romantic relationship with you, it's an animal. It doesn't have the same psychology in it's brain as humans do. Which is why it is so WRONG to have sex with it.

    What should also be mentioned, is that horses don't go around trying to have sex with other animals, including humans (that I know of). What would someone say if they worked on a farm and suddenly their horse was trying to have sex with them? They wouldn't assume the horse is in love with them! They'd (hopefully) realize the horse is acting on instincts and nature and etc, and is probably just unaware as to what type of animal it is trying to engage in sex with. But when a human, who has a much higher level of thinking than any other animal, tries to have sex with an animal that is not a human being, there's obviously something wrong with that human.

    This fetish or whatever you want to call it is the same as pedophilia and rape, because the person is acting on this bizarre impulse they have without acknowledging the fact that the other person might not actually WANT them to be having sex with them, since the other person, or animal in this case, is somehow unable to fully vocalize it, and even when it is vocalized, it's ignored.

  536. bythesideofwriting

    Come on, they gelded the bloody horse so that none of those people would adopt him. I'm sure the horse was thrilled.

  537. Kyle Monson

    Thank you. I was gonna watch this, but now I won't waste my time.

    By the way, your answer was impressively cogent for a comments section on the internets. My hat's off to you.

  538. Peter Aikin

    "it's an animal. It doesn't have the same psychology in it's brain as humans do."
    I, for one, believe that the 'brain' is simply a translating mechanism for the energies of the soul. So, calling love "psychology in its brain" is, well.. wrong.? In my opinion.

    edit: because love is from the soul, not the brain, is what i'm saying.

  539. EquityTryce

    I don't know what's more disturbing, the video or the comment section?!

  540. lindenbay

    thank you. Such an eloquent response. i am quite moved and disturbed by this documentary...My mind and heart are unsure of where to go. I am frightened yet I do not want to judge, as I do not understand.

  541. Rich Rodgers

    The "soul" doesn't mean anything. If the soul you believe in is not a function of the brain, where exactly is it?

  542. Paul Lopusile

    as a man thinks in his mind so he is

  543. Bobby2013

    Oh? And you made that up all by yourself did you?

    (All of the emotions are produced by the unconscious mind which is a function of the brain)

  544. Bobby2013

    There's nothing wrong with loving animals, but LEAVE THE SEX OUT OF IT YOU SICK FREAKS!

    Its sexual molestation pure and simple. Animals are like children to us mentally and you are taking advantage of them for your own sexual gratification. I would throw you in the same pot as child molesters, and I'm not sure which is worse, you or them.

  545. Common_J

    ....well i was told about this doc, rather i was told i should watch it. I take issues or subjects (or general debates) and put them through an analytical unbiased process in which i show the negative and positive aspects or implications.
    i finished watching the...documentary, and here it goes
    they're sick in the head. chemicals in their brains are not balanced right or they all suffer from profound trauma.

  546. n2ecosystems

    I think the guy had some sick fetish for being with the biggest available penis, he even makes a statement about "the horse is still the biggest thing out there" , he knows it's morally wrong but uses he's in love with it to try to soften the disgust we all feel for his actions. I think it's clear how God feels about it, he took his life and made him suffer to boot.

  547. chernencoffa

    Ok I know I shouldn't laugh but the bit at the end about the family dog. O my god that was funny. Like seriously glad I wasn't drinking when that came on. It seems like it's straight out of south park or something. Banging the family dog o no. Thought I'd comment this way instead of arguing the morality of it which is weird and weird at the same time.

  548. smackme420

    I try very hard to understand the way not only how the so-called "normal" people think but, the "abnormal". This is just beyond me no matter how or what angle I use or reasoning I try, it just will not register. To have SEX with animals people! think about it. Really, the sheer differences in bacterias, and whatever it is that we as human get out of sex, even with strangers, you can't get, what-so-ever with animals. It's a kind of spiritual thing once you come, and it's good, and with a person compatible. Hard to explain. The only thing that ruins what I'm trying to describe, is being very drunk and not remembering at all the intimacy. But, most of the time, even with hundreds of partners through out the years, you get a certain closeness even for a moment, then you go on. But, with an animal is cruel and abusive. The sicko should go to jail.

  549. Peter Aikin

    But it's not. Love comes from a soul-like mechanicism. There are multiple dimensions in this world and we are much more than our physical forms.

  550. Brain Williams

    I have no sympathy at all ! funny how one guy wanted to commit suicide and the others all panicked and knew they were headed for trouble hence

    the secrecy . Why ? because they knew it was wrong . The animals had to be trained and the men splashed on a sent from a female horse that would have been in season and ready to accept a male horse, so don't tell me that the horse was not tricked or fooled and it was in a loving relationship ! FFS. I am appalled by the amount of the sick people that engage in bestiality and it does appear to be mainly females making the videos . God it makes one suspicious every time you see a woman walking a larger sized dog . Paranoid you say? well yes a little I guess as I am one of the people that just cant comprehend sex with animals . Many men that are involved in encouraging a woman to participate in such acts mainly for the $ in making these videos and would not engage in bestiality them self's and view the woman that is making such a film as the absolute filth and discussing members of our race and the degradation and the fact that they will commit such acts just puts them into the worst of the worst . To anyone that thinks different and thinks its ok , I ask you this

    how would you feel if you came home from work and had sex with your partner, did your thing and gave her oral only to find out that Rover had just blown his load in her ten seconds before?! Me I would not stop vomiting for months or years and would probably cut both of there throats .So I am saying that harm will come to you if do this crap around me!.We all know its wrong same as necrophilia and nobody gets hurt there, do they?FFS !

  551. Louem

    Not unhappy the m*ron died. Feel sorry for his family though. Why do these m*rons, peadophiles etc included, hide behind "love" when they really just don't care about anything other than getting their rocks off. It's simple. These id**t's selfishly will not control their weird impulses. Impulse control. Selfishness and lack of impulse control is all it is. These id**ts that involve themselves in such damaging and hurtful behaviour need to stop being so self absorbed and weak. Losers.
    This doco just shows excuse after mysteriously darkened scene excuse. Time in my life I won't get back. Wiki it instead of wasting your time.

  552. Jonathan Hughes

    The speech of the zoo gives blessing. The speech against the zoo does not give blessings. King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
    He that handleth a matter wisely shall find good: and whoso trusteth in the LORD, happy is he.

    Those against the zoo seek bad. Therefore thay say bad words. How can anyone be happy saying bad words that help no one? The zoosexual is wise to utter good words not condemning words. The tendency to not do that is why the unseen devil attacks the zoo hiding behind people with the pretext of doing good not behaving like Jesus who is good.

  553. Ralph Harris

    I'm sure the horse was asking for it ....

  554. Ralph Harris

    Hey Wilbuur!

  555. Ralph Harris

    Come on people.. the only really bad thing about horse buggery is that you've got to get down off the milk stool, and walk all the way around to the front to give it a kiss. Kind of breaks the 'mood,' that.

  556. billythekid122

    The horse was protecting it's self by kicking him to death .

  557. Enumscratch

    I graduated from Enumclaw High School about a month before this happened. It was shocking. What was even more shocking is that they put up a statue of a horse on main street awhile afterwards! And most of the places they're shooting in this video are not Enumclaw.

  558. Alv V

    I didn't watch this documentary, but after reading what it is about, and then looking at all the comments (it's one of the most commented one in the whole web-site), it seems that this story has struck a core in people, since so many bother to reply to it. But I'm not sure what is more tragic, someone that dies from "peritonitis due to perforation of the colon after engaging in receptive anal sex with a horse" or those that spend time writing hate-speech, ignorant garbage and jokes about it. But maybe that's the point of the movie, to stir debate and let people see for themselves their true faces and then hopefully cause some change. I can only applaud those that helped this person and I hope they did something that helped people or animals by spending time and money creating the documentary.

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