Capitalism: A Love Story
Michael Moore's Capitalism: A Love Story comes home to the issue he's been examining throughout his career: the disastrous impact of corporate dominance on the everyday lives of Americans (and by default, the rest of the world).
But this time the culprit is much bigger than General Motors, and the crime scene far wider than Flint, Michigan. From Middle America, to the halls of power in Washington, to the global financial epicenter in Manhattan, Michael Moore will once again take film goers into uncharted territory. With both humor and outrage, Michael Moore's Capitalism: A Love Story explores a taboo question: What is the price that America pays for its love of capitalism? Years ago, that love seemed so innocent.
Today, however, the American dream is looking more like a nightmare as families pay the price with their jobs, their homes and their savings. Moore takes us into the homes of ordinary people whose lives have been turned upside down; and he goes looking for explanations in Washington, DC and elsewhere.
What he finds are the all-too-familiar symptoms of a love affair gone astray: lies, abuse, betrayal... and 14,000 jobs being lost every day. Capitalism: A Love Story is both a culmination of Moore's previous works and a look into what a more hopeful future could look like. It is Michael Moore's ultimate quest to answer the question he's posed throughout his illustrious filmmaking career: Who are we and why do we behave the way that we do?
Free trade without rules is a cheater's paradise, whether capitalism or communism. Cannot be cured by Consumer Protection Bureau to level the playing field. Needs the morality of scruples even churches no longer teach enveloped in the system of sink or swim called Capitalism the way we allow it to be unleahed among corporates and banking, even in government & Congress. Autocrats choice of winners and losers, emboldened by the power they hold, and seek to misuse it for their own benefit. Trump is the perfect example too many tolerate to preserve the system in hopes they one day will become such a winner, the object of his show, The Apprentice, where the show taught the dark side of capitalism and entrepreneurial spirit - the benefit of greed and malice toward all as the new spirit of America?
To everyone here complaining about MM claiming "capitalism" when it should be "corporatism":
If you had heard/viewed any of Moore's myriad interviews, website articles/comments, or read any of his books, you'd already know that he's stated multiple times he has no problem with the concept of capitalism. Nor does he have a problem with the concept of profit, conservatism, or those who wish to carve out a better life for themselves involving bigger and better things.
His problem is that corporatism in all its excessive greed IS what capitalism has become today. It is no longer defined as the simple concept of a business struggling to stay fresh and competitive while remaining beneficial - it's now defined as a system where businesses are juggernaut entities that have the government in their back pocket, and continually place ridiculous profit margins ahead of anything else, to the point where they literally leave devastation in their wake for the sake of saving a few extra dollars.
The race to acquire to excess dominates American society and it trickles down from these business giants and shady politicians, right to our educational system, media, and our pop culture - in a way that is staggering when compared to any other advanced nation in the world.
The people of the U.S. take this rat race toward the American Dream for granted, and all the while the entire system of shady business practices, outsourcing, downsizing, lay-offs, grossly uneven distribution of funds, for profit healthcare, poor education, etc., can all so easily be eliminated should the people realize THEY have the power to instill regulation, standards, ethics, and a little humanity into how everything is run in their country.
This by far is my favorite Michael Moore movie. He stays on topic, he stays off camera for the most part and has a very good story to tell of the haves and have-nots.
20 years in from "Roger and Me" and Michael Moore still continues to be one of the ultimately greatest voices for political sanity I know of, by making what is BY FAR one of the most important documentaries EVER! I'm re-watching it at home, and realizing TOTALLY, that it is/(was) impossible to get it all on the first viewing... and I'm now also discovering that the DVD extras are truly FANTASTIC! Congressman Elijah Cummings, shedding a tear from his right eye, as he is being interviewed by Michael about the PERMANENT and catastrophic LOSSES being suffered by middle class and poor people, is SO SUPERB! The FDR speech about a new (2nd) Bill of Rights is incredible!!! Spread this film around... it is relevant now more than ever... and its issues are SO crucial to our survival as a species on the planet and any lasting hopes for "We the People" to be free from the obscene + greedy bastards' oppressions! If I were a teacher my class would see this film... whatever I was charged with teaching. Live forever Michael Moore - you are TRULY a saint!!!
The ignorance of economics in this mockumentary film is amazing. BUT WHAT IS MOST AMAZING is the audience who agree with Michael Moron
I am an Economist and can tell...if you believe in democracy and "free market" you are brain washed by the system. You have to be really ignorant of these matters not recognizing the fundamental truths in Moore's films. By the way his last name spells M O O R E not "M*ron"
Mary Brik, you should really do your information and not believe those so-called "facts". Please do your research properly before claiming an argument.
The shortcomings of capitalism cannot be remedied by running head first into the shortcomings of socialism.
"This is capitalism, a system of taking and giving. Mostly taking." Oh, another very well done polemic film by Michael Moore - brilliant at spinning the truth, omitting important information, and painting reality black and white - a master propagandist. He is vague and ambiguous. How about this for example: "This is socialism, a system of taking and giving. Mostly taking." The words capitalism and socialism are perfectly interchangeable and exacts a truth in both ideologies. Or how about this: "This is friendship, a system of taking and giving. Mostly taking." Michael Moore is a very clever man. I just wonder if he realizes that he uses the same tools of persuasion and techniques of propaganda as the government he abhors?
islam is the answer 2 ur problems chek out how the islamic economic system works!!! america is 1 fukd up country and they want 2 go around da world telling other people how 2 establsh "dmcrcy" dat is why islam doesnt deal with usuary of any kind cus it exploits da people!!!!by peggy don
And the Islamic countries aren't? this is the most stupid comment ever made. Corruption and plunder doesnot understand religion or ethnicity. Humans are greedy and thats all
You lack knowledge. Actually the islamic bankingsystem does work, as was shown in documentaries. You should not confuse that with the dysfunctionality of governments in islamic countries, which obiviously do not work and have not for a long time. But those are also based on capitalism. On Youtube you can find some info about Khadaffi and his many initiatives to improve the economy overthere, quite impressive. Even visiting this site, you must know, that the media is owned by a powerelite and you are given false information about just everything. May i remind you of the scandal of Rupert Murdoch, wiretapping many celebrities. In the islam it is foremost, to take care of all in the community. One way is by paying the Zakat during Ramadan, another used to be to marry women, up to 4, when they did not have a husband, in times of famine. This bears no relation to filthy men marrying young girls just to have seks. The Famine in Yemen in ancient history is researched and written about by some irish scientist, forgot his name. When looking at nature, most of it works, based on cooperation, not on competition. One wolf would starve, never catching anything. You should see the sacrifice of male penguins in rearing and protecting their offspring in the icecold, starving themselves to death, loosing many of the young, while the mother has to return to the ocean to feed herself again, depleted and exhausted by the process of the long walk and laying the egg. Very impressive. You are being manipulated into hating a certain group of people, so that those in power can make more money, by armsmanufacture and making large amounts of money disappear in the process.
goooooood movie very eye opening
Capitalism isn't fundamentaally flawed but it allows for too much exploitation. I'm not bothered about statistics and numbers but when 1 per cent of the population of a country not only own 90 per cent of the wealth but also can use that wealth to directly control that country then there is a problem there. Capitalism is a destructive cycle of borrowing, buying selling, debt and borrowing again, and when it does work it works reasonbly well, it's good to most people, but when it dosen't work it has catastrophic consequences, communism dosen't work either, neither does despotism, nor fascism nor it seems democracy. Perhaps we need to find a middle ground, a compromise that gives and takes equally to and from everyone, maybe we need to change our humanity for that to happen but then again do you really want to keep living under this injustice? Just food for thought...
I agree that capitalism and socialism are both flawed. The most inspiring alternative I've heard of is steady state economics. Read about the concept at steadystate.org
What third world adopted, mix of capitalism and communism seems brilliant.
i do not feel that capitalism has failed. i beleive the goverment failed the people and therefore the people should become the goverment. Are forefathers created what they called a near perfect system and unfortunatly this system after many years of service has failed us. it appears the rich have found holes in the system and use it to there advantage. lobbiyst not the people control the votes. we no longer need a house of representives, a senate, a supreme court, or a president. with todays technology the people can vote individually on laws and regulations. why not at the age of eighteen the people recieve a pda that gives a description of the law and a unbiased test to make sure they understand it so they could then vote. hench the eliminations of lobbyist and the rich having control. schools on a highschool level should teach politics to an extent to were they understand the world.
Yes to your comment that politics should be taught in school to help us to come to grips with the fundamentals at an early age. We are kept in the dark.
The problem isn't the system as it is explained in the constitution, the problem is the many misinterpretations over the years. Misinterpretations by Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Carter, and Nixon just to name the most recent attempts of tyranny against the American people!
i do not feel that capitalism has failed. i beleive the goverment failed the people and therefore the people should become the goverment. Are forefathers created what they called a near perfect system and unfortunatly this system after many years of service has failed us. it appears the rich have found holes in the system and use it to there advantage. lobbiyst not the people control the votes. we no longer need a house of representives, a senate, a supreme court, or a president. with todays technology the people can vote individually on laws and regulations. why not at the age of eighteen the people recieve a pda that gives a description of the law and a unbiased test to make sure they understand it so they could then vote. hench the eliminations of lobbyist and the rich having control. schools on a highschool level should teach politics to an extent to were they understand the world.
Capitalism is NOT the problem, the problem is the liberal (communists) version of corporate welfare (crony capitalism) Only the chosen corporations get taxpayer handouts, but when this happens the crony companies usually fail. The president of the United States of America has proven this over and over again throughout the past six years just the crack addicts like Michael Moore are too stupid to see it. The democrats, socialist, and communist general idea of government operation: tax a thriving economy if it continues to thrive regulate to death then subsidize for total control!!
What the heck?! Most of the things he blames on capitalism happen just as much, if not worse, in a Communist state. The corrupt law system? Well, try living in f--king North Korea, honey! People in East Germany were usually arrested without even a trace of a fair trial! And the picture he paints of Germany is hilarious - I am German, and I can assure you we are not the promised land where Unions can just fire a CEO, wtf. I love Michael Moore's other docs, but this one is badly researched and based on weird half-facts.
Your not from Germany, if you were you would be saying What The Heck!!
Huh?!?!? That doesn't even make sense and does not constitute an argument.
Well said, Ulrike. Chris Avera, you are either really stupid or omnipresent to be so sure of where Ulrike is from. I am guessing the former. Michael Moore paints it black and white. The problem with America is people like you Chris, who probably half-ass educate yourself and hen think you know it all because you read a book illustrating one side of a topic. Then you feel confident to flap your gums about something you really know very little about. Did it never cross your mind that when Ulrike was learning English he picked up the phrase? Is that so unfathomable to you and your tiny little brain? I teach English in Europe and have taught a lot of very silly phrases to children (holy moly, brother from another mother, etc) - the fact that you actually typed what you typed and hit the return button makes you very ignorant. And the fact that I just took the time to explain that to you makes me even dumber than I was two minutes ago. Do yourself a favor and throw your computer out your window.
I'm a woman, so no he. And I have an advanced degree in English from an English-speaking country so yeah, I actually know what "wtf" means, not that this would need any advanced language skills. There are indeed a lot of idiotic people to be found on the internet.
Anyone who says capitalism works because it provides a motivation is ignorant and fails to see the bigger picture. Of course it does for a time, but the only way for a seller to make a profit is if the consumer spends and money is transferred from the consumer to the seller. This has, is, and will always result in a perverse exploitation in which the consumer is bound by the expenses of necessities, and can never make a living due to the discrepancies of wealth. For example, a person cannot make a profit out of selling apples if he does not have enough money to buy the apples in the first place, and this is what is happening without regulation of wealth and money. And do you really need to have all these luxuries? Do you really need 5 homes all across America while people are struggling to find a job and living in the back of vans? I hate America as a country because it claims to offer equal opportunity , and yet it seems like only the rich will ever be able to afford good education (and so their children will have more chance of being rich etc.) and healthcare. These need to be nationalised. We Europeans are always antagonised by America because of our socialist principles and yet generally we seem to be the ones who are happier and not being revolutionised by our own people.
Capitalism is best. Not the way it is now practiced. I buy what I want. I persue my goals as best I can. I try, may fail, then try again and may find some success. With what I have I may choose to help others to an extent I feel capable of and willing to. Capitalism is best. Not the way it is now practiced.
We're going to end up trading chickens and computer chips... I just know it.
Edited: I forgot to mention that this video upload isn't that good. It kept stopping every five minute or so. Best that you download it from a respectable file downloading program like piratebay.
Gotta get down to it,soldiers are cutting us down!
"Should have been done long ago."
COMMUNISM!!!!
Capitalism - A failed economic system.
Despite the biggest financial catastrophe in history I see there's still some are still selling the "free market" American dream, when it's clear Goldman Sachs et al took advantage of that dream. It's the ideology of "free market" capitalism that is the reason behind the crisis, ie, the deregulation and associated practices was the ideology of "free market" capitalism in concrete practice. The "free market" only exists in fairy tales written by the likes of Hayek and Friedman. It is in reality your worst nightmare.
You're talking about the 1000 richest... After rich comes wealthy ;) Those are like 1000 in total... And they don't care about you only about getting more more more and more!!!!!!!!!!!! Those didn't became rich by working hard but just because they were born with the right (blue) blood
Do you care about the workers in China who commit suicides on their production lines so you can shop at Wall-mart? Every human being is relative to their own needs. Why should a billionaire want to just GIVE you money? Try working for it like the rest of THE WORLD. People say its only America. Psht. You live in a fantasy. Its called history of all of civilization. Even basic cultures had monetary systems. If you don't like the way the world turns based on money then your in denial about basic structures of society, nations, countries, and human nature.
I am amazed that the people of America are now so divided that they will not work together for a common good. This is a sad fact, and our children and grandchildren will pay for our complacency.
Money`s value is whatever people make it, so lets use it for collective goods, not the individual`s greed...
Essentially and let's keep this simple...the system is not working for the majority.
In this century it is a reality that millions of people from 1st world to 3rd are living in extreme poverty without the basics needed for human existence. This continues because it is profitable.
We are distracted on a daily basis, to want things, to strive to achieve a certain level of existence weighed against wealth and possessions, men and women are sold insecurities through celebrites, make up, miracle cures- all to make us strive for what cannot be achieved, to keep us spending, wanting and indebting ourselves.
While people starve, get kicked out of their family homes because mortgages rocketed without notice or reason, countried where citizens have to pay for health care, education becomes for the wealthy- ostracising the gifted, hard working, creative, passionate people who can't afford to learn...or they do at a higher cost of crippling themselves with debt for years.
Time for everyone to peacefully protest, speak out, take issue with these things and try to make a contribution...
Every year in the UK we are encouraged to give to charity, huge televised events with big celebrity names pushing the public to give and fair play...they really do and raise millions for the sick, needy etc...
How much easier would it be for the top 1000 richest people on Earth to give half of their wealth...truth is the top of the pyramid don't want the whold world to be prosperous, self sufficient and without need...because those countries wouldn't need to borrow any more money and pay high interest either...perhaps they would be less willing to sell their land at flat rate too...
Everything has a reason...
For every suffering, injustice or madness...trace it back...
Often the reason is greed.
Why should the top 1000 richest people give up what they have? How about you give up everything you have for some lazy "poor" citizen who need a better car or house? You won't give a darn thing up, so why on earth do you think somebody else should? Your nothing but a hypocrite, and thats why you love this movie so much, because Michael Moore is a giant hypocrite, he practicing capitalism by making this movie and selling books. This is the same as following Al Gore who has a several thousand dollar electric bill each month. Does this make any sense to you, because im confused.
Who said anything about giving up everything? She suggested the 1% of the most wealthy people in the world give up half of their wealth, and if you have been following the news you would know that the 1% could still maintain lifestyles beyond your imagining with just half. Moore may be a giant douche, but there are many in the 99% who do give, they give their time and their money to those with even less. Try moving out of your tiny ideological bubble and think critically about things for once, then you won't be confused.
the 1% do give. A lot. The top 1% pay almost 40% of the taxes the US collects, the top 5%, 60%, the top 10, 79%...and what about the bottom 50%, well they manage to scrounge around and pay a staggeringly high 2.25% of the taxes the US collects. Before you call me out as a mythical number maker, my source is the Internal Revenue Service.
But to give those percentages meaning, you also need to know the percentage of earnings. For example, the top 1% pay almost 40% of the taxes, but what % of the income do they make? If they make, say 50% of the income, but are only paying 40% of the taxes, they've got a 'good' deal.
some of the top 1% dont like the tax system the way it is now. what about that dude who stood up and told obama to raise his taxes. that his secertary paid more of percent of her income on taxes than he did. i dont know if he was in the one percent but he saw the flaw in the system and even though he would have to pay more he hopes it would go to some good
You are referring to Warren Buffet, one of the richest people in the world. (Before he gave away all his wealth)
There is a difference between wealth and income you know. Just because a person has "wealth" or "income" does not mean they are rich. Yes they live a lavish lifestyle, but at a price. A lot of wealth by the "1%" is invested into businesses which EMPLOY WORKERS. If you like America being on top then you let the elitist keep us there. Don't take out equity on a house you already own. Jimmy Carter was correct when he correctly stated that Americans were too concerned about what they owned, which reflects the greed in how people think they can just spend their house away and somehow still be well off. IF IT IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT IS!!
Amazing movie, very poignant! I am going to use it as a recruitment tool for youth activism at my college, because it is sophisticated yet frank enough to get the point across easily to students, although it doesn't directly go into depth on how the system is screwing students I'll use that as my cue to connect the dots for them. Thank you for taking the time to make such a great work for the people.
Guess you go to some community college, huh?
you must have gone to colloge on line, huh?
college*
The steady privatization of all things natural and otherwise on the planet with the simultaneous consolidation of wealth and ownership of privatized entities indicate a natural evolution of these systems to that of communism. Only instead of the State owning all, private legal "persons" ie corporations will own them. It is no different from the Communist Soviet Union. However, the elite in the USSR simply achieved their goal through the government itself instead of a privatized system for resource annexation. These "persons" are not citizens of any nation and overrule the idea of national borders. Having no physical form to put in jail, the only recourse for these "persons" violations of law and decency is monetary in nature. Given the fact that it is often less costly to break the law and pay fines than to obey the law, we can see the true nature of the corporate state. Politicians go into the system, are processed by a system of legal bribery, and come out stock holders and high profile employees of these banks & companies. And then there's the guys who already had high profile jobs and THEN went into politics (1 of many examples: Cheney). The world has been transformed into the New Rome. The plutocracy have replaced the Emperor. The governments act like the senators. The elite are the true power and represent the land owners. The corporations (eternal and legal persons) and banks are the vessels for the lineages of the elite. Communism / socialism won't work much better. You're still chattel to someone. That is why anarchy is the only way. For you cannot defeat greed. Power corrupts...absolute power corrupts absolutely.
wow..michael moore film as always really really touching and sad.. looked up stock market crash in quick attempt to try to understand it (total dummy in economics)..maybe i didnt get.. but it seems like the whole stock exchange thing is people trading air!! can someone who is bothered please explain how these people get physical paper money not by producing something, not by offering a service.. but by manipulating air!!..i dont get it..
it's an illusion in my opinion just another form of deception.
i guess the supposed common folk that work for a living each day are pretty much kept in the dark about how the system is really run. i'm just saying this is only what I think....Peace
well, Moore may not be very good in terminology as many of you have pointed out but the message of the film stays.
there are guys who raised millions and even billions of dollars by damning millions and even billions of people to poverty.
I call this a crime against humanity.
I'm from the Czech republic and I can tell you socialism (goverment form of a mild communism) is bad, no doubt about it. But because of abusing human rights and stealing their property, not because of the social welfare. Don't you think this is exactly what the Wall street-driven government has done? Abusing human rights and stealing property?
The problem may not with the capitalism itself but it is with the free market doctrine.
No one forces anyone into poverty. Last time I checked, no one was forced to sell their home. They sold it themselves and they should have known better.
Sell? Hahaha you make it sounds like it could have been a choice. Did you watch the video? I think the world you're looking for is 'repossess,' or in other words, steal.
In Eurpoean countries, such as Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Holland, the UK, Belgium, Germany, France, there are a lot of very, very rich and wealthy people.And of course a middle class and poor people. These countries are not cummunistic. People of America, you must understand that socialism and communism are not the same. Some countries are also not socialist countries. But they have taken the good from the capatalilsm and the good of the socialism and combined these. This has given the people the basic rights such as a home, education and healthcare. IF you have lilttle money, you dont live in the best area, but you have a warm house in the winter, and you kids dont go to the best school, but nothing stops them from getting a university degree and a good chance in life. Also here houses get reposessed, but on a small scale and much more to blame themselves than a banking system. People are warned before taking out loans and mortgages and the financial regulators are more independant. I am not saying its heaven on earth, but its a lot better and healthier than America. Our systems guarantee the basic needs in life with the option to be succesful and rich if you set yourself to it. So please be open minded and study the alternatives in releatively wealthy countries like the ones mentioned above. You have been dragged into a war in Iraque based on lies, as now everybody knows, and yet the people responsible for these lies, and waste of money and peoples lives are still walking around in freedom and wealth. How do you justifiy this? What if you would have lied in congress under oath?
Im a capitalist and support it but im watching this movie to be open minded and understand another view point.
goverment cant be created or destroyed, just transformed
What I find fascinating with people who criticize capitalism is that they ALWAYS do it from a stance of comparing it to perfection.
In essence, their argument always amounts to "capitalism isn't perfect, therefore it's evil" :D
But none of us "capitalism lovers" claims it's perfect or can be perfect. We believe it's the BEST SYSTEM POSSIBLE. It's the system with the most advantages and least disadvantages - not without flaws, not without pain, not without suffering - just the best in real world terms.
The systems they like (instead of capitalism) are always utopian visions that never ever ever ever succeed in practice and always turn out much much much much worse when attempted in practice.
What would you rather have
- An imperfect system that does mostly good, but also some bad, and is upfront about it... Is proven to work better than ALL systems in all the millenia of human existence, in practice.
- A system that claims to be perfect in theory, but when implemented makes everything go to s*it, half the people starving, the other imprisoned... regardless of how well-intentioned it's original theorizers were
Which utopian visions do you claim to have been tried in practice? Communism? Well, we have seen that communism implemented in that state does not work. But what about other systems?
Your argument seems to imply that, because no system is perfect, we should just stick with whatever we have and never strive for anything more. Yes, capitalism may not be the worst system we could have, but it is surely not the best, and we should not discourage people from striving to achieve something that makes us all more equal, rather than simply benefiting the majority.
On what research and evidence is your statement 'proven to work better than ALl systems in the millenia of human existence' based? You obviously have not seriously studied systems in Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Germany or the Netherlands where you have every chance you want to set up your business and become wealthy, but where you basic needs are also guaranteed. Its not capitalism, its not socialism, its not communism, its not a dictatorship either. Its a combinationi of a free market, free competition but also looking after the poor and the less fortunate. These countries count many millionairs and billionairs as well. Its about time that you Americans stop believing what your politicians tell you, but find out for yourself what other options are out there. Its not between the two alternatives you wrote about above. There are more, proven to work succesfully.
Dude, I'm European.
2) Germany is the second most capitalist country on the planet right now and my favorite country in the world. Right-wingers the world-over would move to germany at moment's notice if they could. The only thing germany has that's less capitalist than the USA is free healthcare, but they're working hard to eliminate it. In most other areas they're actually more capitalist than the USA.
3) All those other countries you listed are capitalist countries who just happen to have strong welfare. It would serve you to look up the dictionary on what socialism is before you embarrass yourself like this online.
-> Socialism is the state owning property, and lack of free market.
-> Capitalism is free market and people owning their own property
Are you SERIOUSLY saying that germany and scandinavia don't have a free market or private property. Are you loco?
"On what research and evidence is your statement 'proven to work better than ALl "
Ever heard of an A/B test?
Compare east-germany to west-germany
Compare east europe to west-europe
Compare north-korea to south-korea
Those are all just PERFECT coincidences right? That the EXACT same people in the exact same land, with access to the exact same resources, one with socialism, one with capitalism, the socialist one turns to heck. That's just a coincidence right?
I know this online stuff is anonymous, but try not to embarass yourself too hard. You defend something you didn't even take time to look up in the dictionary. How freaking sad is that?
Who wrote that dictionary. I will tell you the difference kid... the so called communist dictarships took over the goverment to take ownership of the whole country. The built a monopoly so they can take a profit for them. In the United States and sadly in most economies right now what we have a is a small group of private interests taking over countries for their own profit. Same goal different labels. I believe in the free market, when it is actually free. Freedom needs regulation... imagining playing monopoly with your family eliminating the rules of the game, I guess everybody will try to take over the best properties on the board to get as much money as possible while doing no effort at all, so you will get a big mess until the biggest guy will start hitting and punching the smaller ones. That's capitalism right now, freedom needs laws and regulation.
I don't think you understand that you are comparing apples to oranges. America and a tiny little country like Denmark are NOTHING alike. Yes you got a good mix, but that is only because it fits those tiny little European countries. Not the world's sole superpower. Let American's debate their own problems and you stay in Europe. If you are an American, then learn more about: the sizes of countries, how America ended its isolationism, and how the global economy works. Denmark does NOT equal America. Even Germany is barley 1/3 the size of Texas.
Stop comparing the wide world to your personal view. Things are totally f'ed here. Holding a silver spoon and talking about the overall state of things being "not perfect" and IMPERIALISM (what?!) "does mostly good" (a completely objective viewpoint, of course). Evil is a pretty subjective word but I'm pretty sure plenty of people find profiting off of an innocent's death, coercion, bribery, thievery, greed, war, and gangsterism as pretty damn evil. Don't try to say Capitalism isn't the cause of war. Capitalism means profit. Pure and simple. More war = major profits for banks, defense industry, and oil not to mention all the companies that rebuild the infrastructure. Dude, wake up.
Dude we are awake. Take a human civilization history class. Show me a single nation, country, or empire that was a utopia. That is what you are describing. A world where everyone gets along and gives away free stuff. What? Crops don't grow themselves you said?!! Someone has to WORK to get those plants to grow. What?!! Someone has to be paid to build that farmers house? My point is: if you want to eat then you have to work. This is how humanity has ALWAYS been. We understand how societies, economics, and principals of human nature work. Dude, wake up and pick up a history book sometime. Also, last time I checked our WAR FOR OIL in middle east was A GOOD THING. America is spreading democracy with our power. Don't like it. Too late. Go back to the aristocracy or monarchy style humans used to have with kings and queens. At least with democracy we can feel like were making decisions.
Haha, yea the war for oil is a good thing alright! Look how much the price of gasoline has gone down since we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq! Yes we are spreading "democracy" with our bombs and guns, of course that's going to work! Newsflash: America is not a democracy, it is a plutocracy where both parties are owned by the ultra-rich. Elections aren't much of a choice when Red Team and Blue Team are both on the payroll of corporate America. How can we possibly spread democracy to the Middle East when we don't even have it in our own country? Stop watching Fox News and read some books for a change. Your ignorance is breathtaking.
By the way... denouncing capitalism as the global system for exchange of goods and services does not mean one favors laziness or not working. On the contrary, capitalism encourages laziness for the wealthy at the top who pay their underlings the lowest wage possible to do all their work for them to make them more money. Human beings are just another commodity for greedy corporations, and the profit motive becomes their only concern. Look around in America: the people who work the hardest are often the people that make the least money. As a socialist (I call myself one proudly... Obama is anything but one), I believe that the people that benefit from the economy the most (the wealthy) have a greater obligation to give back to the society that has made them so rich. In other words, the ultra-rich should pay more in taxes than they do now. In the Eisenhower years (he was a Republican!), the top bracket paid a 70% income tax, a rate that was so high mainly to pay down the government debt incurred during WWII. Back then, Americans (including the wealthy) had a sense of shared sacrifice. Fast forward to the Bush and Obama years, and we are now in two wars and the rich have had their taxes cut. Kinda makes my head hurt.
Capitalism is the greatest system in the world, man's most beautiful concept. It allows for people to trade actual value for actual value. When followed properly, it is the idel of justice. This movie attacks how capitalism has been abused, though it claims to attack capitalism in and of itself. The Banks certainly did evil and are in the wrong--but not because they are capitalists, but rather because their asking for a bailout is a contradiction to the capitalism they seek to defend. This film should be called something more along the lines of "the sins of plutocracy." Never stop believing in true capitalism---without it we have no freedom.
I'm not sure if that's entirely true, with the exponential growth of technology we could very well be heading to a place where money is obsolete.
Money is worthless... backed by nothing. Go learn about it. You're not getting anything of value. The only things of value are material goods that are abusively sought after. Accumulation of things. What would be TRULY beautiful is a system where each and every human being is provided the means to a decent life while they add to the community anything of which they like. If you truly love to cook, you cook for people. If you truly love to play music, you do that. Construction? We'd need houses, right? The reality is, this system was invented in order to enact an endless wave of privatizing anything and everything making it all subject to being purchased. Did you know that huge corporations have begun patenting DNA of natural organisms, plant life, animal life, and even portions of the human genome? The act of privatizing water means you are not allowed to have it without some method of payment. That is not freedom. Water is the most basic REAL necessity. You will die of hunger long after you've died of thirst. A real believer in the Bible would find this abhorrent! Do you really think Jesus, Buddha, or any true lover of humanity would like a world where screwing somebody over for profit was considered an honest day's work? Really...
This is why I said he does not argue capitalism, but corporate plutocracy. Capitalism, true capitalism, as envisioned by Adam Smith and defended most successfully by Ayn Rand (among many others), puts the rights of the individual before anything.
"What would be TRULY beautiful is a system where each and every human being is provided the means to a decent life while they add to the community anything of which they like. If you truly love to cook, you cook for people. If you truly love to play music, you do that. Construction? We'd need houses, right?"
That's essentially true capitalism. I'd only say that "every human being is provided the means to a decent life" is kind of a flawed demand:: that's the goal of commmunism, and it just did not work out (Russia, Cuba, etc.). A man should always earn their life, and find a way in which they can do that, so this doesn't mean "anything," but certainly the idea of "adding to the community" is true. That said, what we have is not right, and Moore is right in challenging it. But true capitalism is certainly the idea that any man has the right to do whatever he pleases with his life.
The thing about water---it's a really tough question. It was rather recent (late 1990's early 2000's I think) that the UN recognized water as a commodity. I think this is wrong and that water should be considered a human right.
Here's the thing that I wonder though, beyond water, and where I'm not sure I side with the post-industrialists or the industrialists-- i.e. this new(ish) concept of financial institutions being the rich (because their work is not directly related to any violation of human rights) vs. those that produce goods/commodities. A lot of production of goods is great, it provides people jobs, etc. But what is messed up with our system is that most of the super-rich companies got there by non-capitalistic ways, i.e. the violation of human rights, mercenary groups, etc. (I'm thinking of computer and electronics companies needing metal from Congo among other places and enabling an internal warfare between the people of Congo as to who gets this metal, or sweatshops throughout asia and africa.) As soon as force becomes involved, capitalism ceases to be capitalism. But the thing about the post-industrialists, which Moore argues beautifully is the terrible state people end up in after their home forcloses, or they are denied health insurance for w.e. reason.
I'd like to finish by saying Capitalism is a moral and ethical concept. The words of Christ (and Buddha, and the rest) were also moral, for the most part. That said, people misinterpret the words of the religious all the time, so we end with things like the crusades, religious wars and groups like the Westboro Baptist Church. Likewise, when Capitalism is misinterpreted we get into major f--ked up situations where everyone is bankrupted by a greedy lot who don't respect the system they claim to be the posterboys for. But the fact that the Westboro baptist church exists doesn't make me want to renounce all of Christianity. Likewise, the facts presented in Moore's film should not make people loose faith in the capitalist ethic.
THANK YOU. I hate white collar crime just as much as the next guy, but he mixes too may issues in blender and then says capitalism is bad. Capitalism is basically at its heart: competition. If we take away competition then what is the point of humanity anymore. Everyone should be economically equal. Why stop there? I could definatley aruge that I need electricity in the 21 cetury to live. Lets go ahead and give away free electricity for the whole world. Sounds like a plan.
Competition is not a necessary vector for improvement, technology advancement, and societal evolution; in fact, it often brings out the worst in us; wars, lying, stealing, and cheating. What if we "advanced" because it was exciting and that we received an emotional reward while working with like minded and gifted individuals? The bottom line is that the "greed" that is buried deep within our Reptilian Brain, is driving us to be the worst that we can be. Once we identify this biological fact, we can ethically move forward. Until then, we will continue to destroy ourselves and our planet in the almighty name of cash.
This film does not argue against capitalism, it argues against how capitalism has been abused. Capitalism is the most ideal system in the world--it values man's mind as his highest asset--which it should be. It allows for productivity to run free. Look at the wonders of Apple, among so many other great companies. The real problem is when professed capitalists undermine capitalism by requesting bail-outs as the banks did. This movie has its fair share of good points, but is filled with bad ones.
The problem with Capitalism or with any other "ism" for that matter is that there is always a tendency to abuse it or them because of just one word: GREED!
You say greed. I say motivation.
beautiful
I feel every high school should be required to show this to all students. When will the insanity end?
Capitalism ended in America about 100 years ago. Since then they have had a system known as corporatism. And every time corporatism fails the politicians blame capitalism and use it as an excuse to introduce even more government regulation.
Great movie, but one thing we have to understand, " For the love of money is the root of all evil". Notice it says ALL evil. All we can do is trust in God and live our lives with God's love. We know this world is going to come to an end because of wickedness. Please people , read 2 Timothy 3:1-4, and that will explain it all. People are going to love pleasure more than God and this we can see. Continue to love one another, and those who are rich be willing to share and ready to help those who are less fortunate. You will still have plenty.
"the love of money is the root of all KINDS (or sorts) of evil (not ALL)"
Great documentary, this film is very informitive and real, wake up America change is coming. The most absolute truth is that every thing must and will continue to change. Michael moore takes you on a journey and at the end of that journey is truth. The richest people in this country need you to stay poor it is how capitalism works at the end, in the begining it was all about competing and getting ahead, but once your on top and you want to stay there, well you do the most logical thing, you corner the market so there is know more competition!
Capitalism: A Love Story I LOVE the Movie we need alot more People to open there eyes before its way to late POWER TO THE PEOPLE
Michael let Ronnie Raygun off lightly there. Not only did he give the nation away to the corporations in the 80's, he was a big figure in Hollywood part of the McCarthy witch hunts which were about removing all socialists from positions of influence regardless of whether they were a threat or indeed an asset to America or not.
Thanks to the likes of Raygun et al the actions of that evicted family forcibly moving back into their disused and boarded up home is actually a crime. The actions of the window glass factory, a crime, the actions of the banksters, well thats just business baby.
It is unfortunate that America is only waking up to some of the downfalls of capitalism. Unfortunately the other isms were so thoroughly exorcised from the American soul that to not compete in the "That smells of communism" game is to make election nigh on impossible.
The bad news is you have got a long way to go before the system is taken over by people who value society's welfare (Oooh another dirty word) over the wealth of a small minority of individuals being dressed up as economic theory and policy.
Here in Europe the scourge of the international finance men has had its effect but the song "The International" is actually known by more than history buffs and academics and its ideas though not always practiced have been freely allowed to circulate. I always found it funny how American friends would fail to understand why we had so many strikes over things they felt were trivial but now the web is full of angry voices saying "start the revolution" but dont know how they are started and more importantly how they are put down.
I hate to say it but the very small numbers and lack of solidarity shown in these publicised examples of worker action/community action tell me one thing, when cameras are not there heads are getting cracked and butts dragged to jail. These were nice feelgood tales of hope by a man who thinks he is a socialist or wants socialism.
To be a socialist you must absolutely despise the bankers and politicians under their influence with the same lack of remorse they display in their pursuit for money. Its not a battle of superior ideas but powers. The American press quickly hail people power before any power is ever exercised and the powers that be back off and regroup while their opponents pat themselves on the back and disband. European socialist are aware of that so always take the battle that much further even in the face of criticism by the press and often uninvolved members of the public. The last action of people power in America was The Vietnam era actions.
I hope you take your country back, not for socialism but for yourselves. Learn the words of the international, coz the opposition have been international and united for a while and thus have a massive headstart.
Stand up, damned of the Earth
Stand up, prisoners of hunger
Reason thunders in its volcano
This is the eruption of the end
Of the past let us make a clean slate
Enslaved masses, stand up, stand up
The world is about to change its foundation
We are nothing, let us be all
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|
There are no supreme saviours
Neither God, nor Caesar, nor tribune.
Producers, let us save ourselves
Decree the common salvation
So that the thief expires,
So that the spirit be pulled from its prison,
Let us fan the forge ourselves
Strike the iron while it is hot
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|
he State oppresses and the law cheats
Tax bleeds the unfortunate
No duty is imposed on the rich
The rights of the poor is an empty phrase
Enough languishing in custody
Equality wants other laws:
No rights without duties, she says,
Equally, no duties without rights
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|
Hideous in their apotheosis
The kings of the mine and of the rail
Have they ever done anything other
Than steal work?
Inside the safeboxes of the gang,
What work had created melted.
By ordering that they give it back
The people want only their due.
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|
Workers, peasants, we are
The great party of labourers
The earth belongs only to men
The idle will go to reside elsewhere
How much of our flesh have they consumed,
But if these ravens, these vultures
Disappeared one of these days
The sun will shine forever
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The International
Will be the human race :|
L'Internationale : Eugene Pottier, Paris, 1871.
my speakers are at maximum volume and i can`t hear almost anything
It is a must see movie for voters around the world so they study, select and elect the right government officials.
Advertisements are too loud, sorry.
Once again, Michael Moore has exposed the weaknesses in conventional wisdom through wry humor and evocative imagery. Well done.
Amazing documentary.
Vlatko - I just wanted to take the time to personally thank you for putting this site together and tirelessly working to maintain it. Your efforts are greatly appreciated and my life, my actual human existence, has been made infinitely richer and broader and deeper as a direct result of your efforts.
Thanks.
Carlton
A common mistake is to confuse soviet communism with socialism which it most certainly is not, despite deriving from it. Socialism is not about everyone having the same, as it has been illustrated by the following statement:
"From each according to their ability to each according to their needs "
Is it not the job of government to regulate and tackle unfairness, ensure that sections of the population do not exploit others and provide services which are either unprofitable or essential to a standard and at a cost that all can afford?
Government that follows the principles of Capitalism should be a system that allows private enterprise but prevents market domination by a single or small group of interests. It should provide efficient means of production but at the same time providing for the needs of those doing the work. Competitive markets that are not essential to the needs of the population should be open to private enterprise and allow a fair opportunity to all who would like to invest in them. They should also encourage the development of new ideas and products that enhance the lives of the population as a whole. Surplus profits should be re-invest into the nation in order to improve the living standards of the population as a whole and thereby produce demand for a wider variety of markets that can then in turn provide greater prosperity for all.
In my view, one of the crucial flaws of modern capitalism is the huge corporations which are bailed out with public money and are then protected by governments in such a way that allows them to become virtual monopolies which is completely against the basic principles of capitalism itself.
...but we can't deny that most of civilization's advancements throughout history have been achieved because of greed and ambition. In a system where we are all equal and we all have the same living standards, there's little incentive to make a difference. When the scientist next door has the same house and income than the junkie across the street, the scientist would get a little bit pissed... I guess. I'm not defending capitalism, I'm just being a little bit realist.
No you´re not. Realistic that is. You should watch Zeitgeist also. Open up for new ideas. Why should you for hard so that some boss gets ritcher? I´m sick and tierd of doing that.
That's a really big cop out, people are a product of their society. If society tells them that they should try to get the biggest house and biggest pay, that's what they're going to try and do. If you don't think people can work together, look at the Amish.
They work together and have basically zero crime. They all help each other towards a better well being, because that's how their raised. Sure they're also raised to be against our modern technology, but if we had a society that encouraged working together and furthering technology that's what our children would do.
Look at Tesla as well, he introduced some of the biggest advances in technology during his age. The whole time he did it he was basically mocked by others and he ended up dieing penniless, but he did it for the love of inventing and the love of learning.
Believe it or not some people actually like to help others and invent for the improvement of mankind. Not everyone does it for the love of money.
Show me the house (or should I say mansion) of the scientist and the house (or the old apartment) of the junkie. I know you are not defending capitalism, but you are not realistic at all. Capitalism doesn't exist just in USA. Don't brand USA with capitalism, it won't be fair for the rest of the globe. Take a look at Greece that is at the edge of the cliff and is going to collapse and become one of the poorest countries in the world. Take a look at Brasil and the favelles of Rio de Janeiro, Take a look at the Arab Nations of Middle East and North Africa that are revolting because that capitalistic regime that has been oppressing them for years. Capitalism is just good enough for just the prologue of a new civilization in order to develop the wealth to those who will manage to seize it.. after that, Socialism should take the lead in order for that wealth to be spread around. Those who want all their pies and don't want to share at least a small portion of their pie with the rest of the world are just selfish and in 30 years their way of life will end. The global population exceeds 7 billion, how long do you think the wealthy and the bourgeois will last with their selfish way of thinking? The power and the sheer number of the working people with overthrow them eventually in an unstoppable revolution that will go around the Earth like a domino. The Arab nations is just the start. Remember my words.. You'll see in just about 30-35 years.
Greece is the most anti-capitalistic country in the world. Lol... Greece... lol.
You cant really blame them though. They live on a bunch of rocky islands and rocky soil. I love Greece's democratic history, but there is reason they can only grow olive trees in that crappy soil in their country. lol
When you say: "When the scientist next door has the same house and income than the junkie across the street, the scientist would get a little bit pissed..." I think you've got a little confused there, at no point in a soicalist society would that happen (and I know that's an extreme example) maybe in an extremely literal communist society.
One thing that people need to understand is that when God created, everything in the world was at the dominion of ALL the people. There was no such thing as property because we as humans were to share all things with each other. However, with greed, love of money, and deception comes a new idea known as Capitalism. No "economic" system works if it is based on currency. Of course the idea of "owning" and "buying" and "renting" property for the other person's profit is something that God never intended to be, but because of sin, deception, and greed, this is how we know the world as it is today. For all things on this earth were meant to be shared by everyone. If one is to fix this evil empire (not just the USA) we live in, one has to consider righting the wrongs which have been in the making for thousands of years.
@caesar,
Well... logically God screw up his creation really bad. What a petty.
In my opinion,
The only 'real' working society or the 'best' of the worst societies is a self-sustaining society, where trade is allowed between others to benefit each others (neighbors, strangers, other shops, and other countries. The main thing that is different with this 'ideal' society is that every one is educated in all aspects of an ideal citizen. This would include the following: Political activity (in order for the Government to be run 'by the people'), Trades (Fishing, mining, farming, dependent on the needs/demands of people and available resources) in order for all persons to be employed [Those who are not white collar material], Business, Native culture and global culture; and finally courses; mandatory and voluntary to educate parents how to train their children (in such things as communication; parent-child, child-world, values (honesty, hard work etc.), attitude, and education. As well as the preceding list.
This system will: Cause more failing or obtuse students to still contribute and be employed, Less generation gap, less peer pressure, a government 'by and for the people', and overall a constant increase in standards of living
super and extraordinary movie
Let me in, I have some good ideas lol. That's awesome!
I can scarcely add to Decency's excellent response to Gottasay below but just wanted to mention that Moore also highlighted the patently obvious fact that we're not talking about a level playing field when it comes to toxic loans. Gottasay justifies predatory behaviour which feeds on human weakness, and operates through deception and manipulation. The ultimate goal of which is, of course, to cause people to act against their own best interests. It's difficult to see how this squares up with Biblical standards of justice.
One part i don't like is that he thinks Obama is any better then the previous presidents..
wow, who thought Jimmy Carter had his sh*t together so much.
that's the PR machine for you.
I'm really happy this happened! (the ending when the workers got what they deserved) I hope to see a change in the U.S for the better.
I will start this off by apologizing to whomever this may offend... Almost every point raised in this documentary is a moot point and was poorly represented. I' start at the beginning and work from there.
First is the mortgages, for those of you who wonder how this works it is essentially you loaning your house to the back as collateral. Like any loan if you can't pay you default and object in question is repossessed. Its far from a modern concept: if you don't pay you don't get what you want.
Next is the Reagan issue, this documentary claimed that Reagan was the cause of the increase of big business and all sorts of inflation. The first fundamental problem with that is that the graphs shown went from 1980 to 2000 and it doesn't become steep until after 1990 while Reagan was only in office from 1980 to 1988 so the "BIG BUSINESS FAVORITISM" actually would fall under the bush and Clinton administration. Another fundamental problem is the graphs are not accurately portrayed a perfect example would be in the Dow Jones the first separation occurs ant 875 the next is at 15,000 far from equal measurements, this occurs with a few others as well, while the numbers might be right the time frame and the representation are quite off.
Number Three (feel free to correct me if I miss something),
The corporations making money off the deaths of their employees. While it isn't something you would expect to hear it makes plenty of sense, they take care of healthcare and premiums (and dental occasionally) they spend a significant amount of money on the employee and the family so getting some back in the pocket isn't so bad. It also seemed as though the companies were being blamed for their deaths, however all of those cases were natural causes so Walmart didn't kill anyone. That brings me to the final point of this specific subject, the logic that Walmart should pay for the funeral cost is peculiar why on, using the logic applied for that should you pay for your neighbors coffin I think not.
Next is religion, this will be short and sweet. First thing i would like to point out is capitalism is in the bible money is referenced often and even king David bought and sold things especially gold. Second if it wasn't around where would the sin greed have a chance to arise. Third though this is minor, he made a punch at capitalism using Jesus with the phrase you should deregulate banks, just throwing this out there that is a socialist inclusion into the american psuedo-capitalism. Furthermore how would using Jesus to poorly prove a point that really wasn't necessary in the video not sacrilegious.
Next is the stock market/derivative argument, first i would like to point out the stock market didn't make derivatives you can thank sir Isaac Newton for that. Derivatives are a base part of calculus and even me being a senior in high school I can do them. The point I must emphasize is that according to this documentary wall street is responsible for the confusing derivatives the only flaw with that argument would be that he is suggesting that hundreds of years ago Isaac Newton made calculus to keep the 21st century middle class from making money. I'll stop there since its midnight where I am located
@Erika: I would like to just throw out that your protecting Micheal Moore is a double standard, according to him capitalism is a sin because it promotes greed, however he is rich and last time i checked gluttony is a sin as well...
Have you ever heard an argument that was so empty and misguided you just stare with your mouth open wondering if you should even respond or just let this person lay in their ignorance?
I'll just hit one or two points.
Derivatives from calculus are not the same as the derivatives on Wall Street. Look up options, such as short and put calls, covered calls, and try to understand how they work. Options are traded without ever actually owning the object the option gives you the right to sell or buy. It is the single riskiest and most lucrative investment anybody can make. You can't even trade in options with most online trading sites unless you can prove you are what they call a savvy investor. As a licensed agent/broker I have the freedom to do this, but I would not recommend anyone else do it unless they are well educated on the risks. What the banks did with options was make bets that these mortgages would fail. We call this 'selling short' or a short call. If the object loses value the person who sold the short makes a very high percentage of money. Returns on options can be 500%-1000% percent easily. The faster the value of an object falls the more money the person selling the short call makes. Goldman Sachs made billions off the failure of these mortgages. It was in their interest to see the mortgages fail.
The bible does not condone capitalism. Read Acts. In acts the apostles set up a commune with equally shared wealth. One person who tried to mislead the apostles about their contribution and wealth was instantly slain, killed, by God. In the Old Testament every seven years was a year of Jubilee. In this year you forgave all debts, let all bond servants go free, and the wealth was redistributed among the masses. This was precisely to prevent run away capitalism from destroying the Israel nation. Money is at best a necessary evil in the Bible. Jesus said render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's. He was saying "don't be a part of the capitalist regime. Give them their part so you are within the law, but give yourself to God wholeheartedly"
One more point.
As I mentioned above I am licensed to sell securities. Well I am also licensed with the State commissioner of insurance to sell life insurance, a.k.a Death Insurance. It is illegal for anybody or business to take out a policy with them as the beneficiary unless there is a real vested interest in that person. I could take out a life insurance policy on my babysitter, but I could not take out a life insurance policy on my Neighbor. I could not take out a life insurance policy on my paper boy, or my mail man even though I have an interest in their well being. An underwriter should deny such a policy as being illegal and if someone where to discover such a policy existed they should report the company who wrote it to the state commissioner of insurance. Companies are free to take out policies on upper management and key personnel. These people have alot of knowledge and are integral to the functioning of the business. If they die suddenly the company will suffer a significant loss. This is a reasonable justification to take out insurance on their life. However, the two people in the video, the Wal-Mart bakery worker and a middle management person at a bank are not key people that will cause a significant loss to the company. What Wal-Mart and the other companies mentioned are doing is gambling that they will be able to make a nice profit on the death of an employee. They are insuring employees who are easy to replace and would cause no significant financial loss if death were occur suddenly. These policies are on the very fringe of legality. I would argue that the companies would not be able to show they have a justified vested interest. Therefore, these policies should be illegal. What the companies have done is found a way to gamble on the lives of their employees. They have a predicted mortality rate and place bets accordingly. If their employees die as expected the company makes a nice profit. Although, this falls right on the thick gray line between legal and illegal it most definitely immoral and socially irresponsible. I would also say that since Wal-Mart had no business taking out a policy on a cake decorator in the first place it would have decent and civil of them to offer the family assistance with the burial.
Unfortunately all decency, morality, and sense of right and wrong has vacated the upper echelons of US business.
I think the title of this documentry should be, not, A Love Story; but A True Horror Story; The horror of how human beings treating other human beings for their own gain. Not giving a fiddle about the tragedy of the plight of others's life. They don't care they have the money to feed and clothe, put a roof over their heads, and a job to go to.They have the money to get good health care and the list goes on and on. While us out here stuggle to keep afloat,then to make matters wost bailing out companies who wouldn't pay their workers what was theirs.Just hand them a pink slip and say or not good luck. It's crying shame how greed can destroy lives and bring down the american people, depress and oppress us. capitalism is a good thiong if used the way it was intended, but people have made it into something evil. Throwing people out of their homes that they were in for twenty years or so . The person who commented on that should be ashamed for saying why don't they just deal with it , if you were put in the same situation how would you deal with it. taking jobs away from people and then trying to make a mortgage payment and can't then get your foreclosed does that make any sense. thought this documentry was an eye opener for the uninformed. Any way you cut it. It's pure unadulterated greed and it maked me sick to my stomach and boiled my blood to watch this. So what if Micheal Moore is filthy rich he's gone out there went to school got a degree, and works for his money. As far as him being 400lbs nunya business maybe he has a condition or just loves to eat as i know alot of people do I commend him going up against it all and informing us.Thank you Micheal
ALL monetary systems are flawed and destroy humanity as well as the environment. proven by what you see around you today and....what has occurred in humanities distant past. Eliminate this dominion based lifestyle we have worldwide, headed by the destructive economies, and ....survive and flourish.... keep it up and .... die. soon.
This is no documentary, more of a horror movie .
@Barry
Well said.
Sorry but the Socialist empires are no better.
even though its not better, at least every one will benefit from the system.
you lived in any of them?
@Barry
"Obama should have let this country go in the tank, let the banks fail…no bailouts for the Auto Industry, Wall Street,.."
If Obama wouldn't of bailed these out it would of took the whole world down with them.....that's why he helped them out.
Ultimately, the system is flawed and baling out an industry is proof.
With a trillion dollars we could have revolutionized EVERYTHING and built an entirely new electric infrastructure. We could have dealt with our oil addiction, restored some environmental integrity and so on.
Instead, we throw it down the drain to cover the debt of failing capitalist institutions. Even die-hard capitalists should understand that this is a bad investment.
This is insanity, how can people think this is justifiable... I can't believe there are so many sheep in the world...
Ultimately, the greatest problem facing the world today is our complacency and lack of understanding as to how the world really works. The educational system does not adequately prepare the general population with the tools they need to critically assess the pace at which we are bringing about our own demise.
I wonder how the world would look if America had adopted Roosevelt's Second Bill of Rights.
'Moore' like the 'Late, Great, United States'...Michael Moore is honest and again right on point..tells it like it is...Eisenhower warned and predicted the consequences of a Military Industrial Complex... China and India will soon become dominant world powers... with US relegated to has beens... greed and corruption is the only thing 'we' trust...
I saw this coming back in 1980..no surprise here...just is what it is..under Bush we spent 20 Billion a month for two senseless 'Wars' over an international incident that allowed the lets say, 'the powers that be', to wrap themselves in the flag and preach fear mongering while the 'Haliburtens' (I can give a rats ass how its spelled, you know what I mean)and co. robbed the piggie bank...
NOW all of a sudden we care about the national deficit and want to blame the Democrats... yeah, right... I've never understood how the Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, Fox News followers can be duped into thinking they have something in common with 'Wall Street'... multi millionaires... Obama should have let this country go in the tank, let the banks fail...no bailouts for the Auto Industry, Wall Street, etc... to avoid being labeled a 'socialist'... force the 'Tea Party' idiots to come up with a solution... anybody can criticize...
But 'intelligence'..is clearly in short supply...wedge issue fanatics are easy to fool..mainly because they can't see the 'the them against us'... illegal immigration..in a land founded by 'illegal' immigrants..we truly deserve our fate...'gay marriage'..when they themselves are working on their second or third marriages...abortion... don't even have a uterus... Christianity is not the 'only' religion... to say nothing about 'racism'... I can go on, but why bother?...
Hitler would do well with this crowd... we created 'terrorism'... divide and conquer... this societal meltdown is what happens when you think the right to pursue happiness is all there is... ask yourself... who's happiness?... evolution?... mankind is the same as he was in the beginning... morally, we clearly haven't evolved... survival of the 'riches'... you ignorant... 'b*tches'
@ GtheMVP
you made a point, but you're wrong about socialism consider the fact that all information in the news and even in history is manipulated, and those who manipulate the information turned the socialism into the first form of terrorism, even killing young people just because they gathered with red shirts, not only in USA so whenever you hear something about socialists or communists nations, the information you receive isn't the truth, you won't hear their achievements, their failures will be exaggerated, and also you will hear a lot of b@##$%^&, too.
we have to understand one thing, either capitalism, comunism, socialism, or whatever system you want to talk about can be the perfect or the worst system
the first mistake of all economic systems is that all of them are based on a monetary system, causing a lot of greed for money taht turns into power
the second, and most important, is that humans are taught to be greedy, selfish, mean, and divided, if we (rich, middle class, poor, etc) learn to love or respect each other, even the worst system would work just fine
great website guys
It's really not about any system or ideology, but about reason and decency. Anything working, healthy and good, can, and will be misused, corrupted and turn self-destructing and ugly in the "right hands" - for the sake of greed, power and self glory. Any system or ideology will work with the use of reason and decency. Any system or ideology will fail with the use of greed and self glory - because the outcome doesn’t lie in the name, but in the action. When wrong people misusing the names and symbols for reason and decency, where the real motivation is power, greed and self glory, they slowly but surely are destroying the society. We blindly fight over systems and ideology, blaming each other and anything externally, while the true solution all the time lies in our own motivations and everyday actions. We are as a society, right now, deeply infected with the greed-and-self-glory-virus. With other words: we are easily misled by the wrong people - and this snowball effect has no happy ending.
@GtheMVP
So you think China has a free market economy? Interesting.
@GtheMVP - You hit the nail on the head. Well said sir and I couldn't agree more. @tommeh - Do you know what the income tax rates are in Norway, Sweden and Denmark? If you are a Professional Freeloader, head to those countries (and Holland) because you don't have to lift a finger and the government pays for everything...No thank you.
seems to be a problem with connection for me...
Countries like Norway, Sweden and Denmark have the highest living standards in the world. With the exception of Norway, they dont have tons of money but still really high living standards, why? Because none of them uses capitalism.
just look what happend to New Zeleand when they changed over to capitalism, total failur.
You're totally right.
HAHAHAHAHAH, I f***ing live in sweden so I know whats going on there. were not extreame capitalists but we have private owned shops and so on. its much better than socialism
In my opinion this was the low-water mark of Mr. Moores documentaries, of which i otherwise enjoy tremendously.
Even though i´m certainly more left than right (in american eyes that is). I think Mr. Moore took a too big stand politically, and why, why, why bring religion into this subject?
Apart from that i´ve never understood americans views on socialism? Big part of europes countries are, too and from, governed under social-democratic parties and have been so for larger time of post world war 2 years.
We (can only speak from a swedish viewpoint, but think it goes for several other european countries aswell) have elections just as americans do, and in no way is it any communist tyrany. Instead we have great healthcare, schoolsystem and care for the elderly and disadvanteged.
Have met some americans during my travels and work abroad in different countries. And it seems like, not all, but the greater part of them are surprised of the standard (living, social, economic etc.) that they encounter. And i´m talking about both ´western´ countries aswell as ´third world´ countries.
Is this due to bad education about the world outside the U.S.?
And doesn´t the news cover and broadcast anything but domestic subjects in america?
Just curious...
Pls excuse my english, not my native language.
i watched the movie and i think you have done a great job
the only problem is that the ordinary people don't understand
the econonemy and the economic system and the functions.
it's the governments job to protect the people from bankers
the rip people off in the day light.
wish you all the best and keep up the good work
good bless you
nice one, michael ftw! love the film so well made!
Micheal Moore is such a stooge, capitalism isn't the problem, look at the rise of China, it's corporatism, look how integrated corporations are with the state in the US.
The free market is our best option, always has been, I suggest you all watch free to choose with Milton Friedman, you can't bail out the bad apples, they'll never produce properly.
THe recent marklet collapse had nothin to do with Capitalism, the Federal reserve made money cheap and caused innflated bubble after inflated bubble, fabricating the value of one company after another and their assets, and when those comapnies crashed under reality, the government bailed them out with your money.
The government is the worst solution to run anythihg, they always mismanage, despite increasing taxes, take a look around America!
Chnia was third world 40 years ago, but thanks to a true free market, they are about to surpass you as the world's super power.
Micheal is scoialist sucker, you only get low production and tyranny in socialism, it never works, learn some hisotry!
btw, capitalism isn't to blame for the medical situtaion in america, 50 years ago the doctor patient relationship didn't require a governmental middle man, or some crooked insurance agency, medical bills are inflated because of governmental interventiaon, they've created the monopoly
ps.s there is a role for government, and it's to ensure common laws and fair competition are enforced
FAQ number 10, does work follow what is said by pulling out the internetcable etc and when the time up appears plug the cable back in and load up the page again. continue on from where you left off. it worked for me
The American middle class which arose out of post-war, and more significantly, post-depression America was of great historical significance. It was the first MASS middle class. While there were clearly Americans left out of this middle class, notably in the south where an apartheid system kept many African Americans in poverty, the post-war middle class was still larger and broader than any previous notions of middle class. Before that time, middle class status was reserved for small business owners and professionals, not for millions of blue, white and pink collar workers.
From the vantage of the 21st century it may seem inevitable that by the middle of the 20th century, the US would have emerged as a triumphant, affluent and middle class society, but it was far from obvious at the time. Enormous investments in physical, social and human infrastructure beginning in the late 19th century, accelerating in the 1930s, but continuing for decades after that were the collective midwife of the American middle class.
Thousands of graduates of public universities, which made higher education available to almost everybody who could succeed academically, formed the backbone of the post-war middle class. Employment and training programs made it possible for people to advance their careers. Social security meant that old people would no longer live in poverty as often and that younger workers would not have to spend as much taking care of their elderly parents. Through collective bargaining, insured by the Wagner Act of 1935, labor unions were able to negotiate wages and benefits so that their members were able to join the middle class as well. Primarily because of America's ugly racial history, some groups were left out of these programs and the middle class as well, but it is clear that without these, and numerous other government interventions, the middle class as we know it would not have existed.
The US government played an integral role in creating, and at times maintaining the American middle class. Today the middle class is threatened both because the values that once defined it are no longer broadly shared and because the federal government has essentially renounced its partnership with the middle class. Deregulation of the finance sector, cuts to social and physical infrastructure, regressive tax policies which slashed the funds to pay for said social programs and irresponsible spending by both parties have put the middle class, and with it American society at risk.
If the middle class in the US continues to whither away due to recession, constant unemployment, government policies that are not supportive of middle class Americans and that outsource jobs overseas, it will not just be formerly middle class Americans who will suffer, it will also be difficult for American society and democracy to hold together. A large and stable middle class has been central to America's wealth and stability for decades; without this middle class the country's future will be in great peril. i don't think that's too alarmist innit?
free market economy is NOT the same as capitalism. you can have free markets in social democracies too.
the point MM is trying to make in this film is capitalism becomes -even with a superbly written legal framework like the US constitution- are monster that eats itself.
in order for markets to remain free and fair you have to take a few liberties away as cringing as it may sound to libertarians. BECAUSE we are greedy, selfish and socially myopic mammals we have to set up rules to protect us from ourselves.
sadly, corporations slashed those rules ever since the mid-70s.
I do agree that what he's really going at is not Capitalism per se, but the fact that Corporate america has taken over, money is where the power lies. It did change, and yes this influence over American foreign policy can be detrimental also, not even mentioning the endless domestic issues.
You can't change the fact though, that if the bailout was not implemented, we wouldn't be on the rise so quickly and with minimal damage compared to whats going to happen. Yes they scewed up, but now we all have to pay for it. It's all about disclaimers.
In answer to Michael Moore's questions: "Who are we; and why do we behave the way we do?" The answer is (by human nature): We're a bunch or greedy bastards. And, we behave the way we do because we're crooks, thieves and thugs! (At least, that's what the extraordinarily rich are. Otherwise, they'd be poor like us!) In other words, if you're very rich chances are you're most certainly a crook and con artist (no doubts.) And, if you're middle class, struggling along, you're a poor honest idiotic fool!! And that ain't no lie!! You know it!!
The Corruption seen in the world is truly sickening.
A Revolution will come, hopefully soon and we will watch the public's hatred over the Elite turn into a blood bath.
I for one have no sympathy for the Fat Cats. Why should I? They only care about themselves and they hide behind their lawyers and police officers like cowards.
Lets see how they react when even the Police have given up caring and allow the public to brutally Murder them.
They only have themselves to blame and the world would be a better place without them.
wow...first of all I've only watched to first 72mins of the film an every thing his says is found to be true if you do the research,don't just take his word various subjects he touched on i already new about wasn't to surprising to me,cant wait to see part to anyone who doesn't understand or feel this film form the bottom up you are a unconscious thinker just as the rest of them,there are things we could do about this knowing we are the majority 95% an there only 1%,we need to awake up an reach every individual you can with this film yes sad to say we are helping destroy our world if we continue to sit back an do nothing an just let it happen
I agree that to say capitolism is evil is not the right aproach. Capitolism served us fine before greed and corruption took over. Thier was a time when regulation was not needed unless it was to catch an oversight. Now it is needed not for the occasional oversight but for actuall scams and conflicts of interests- We can no longer be niave enough to believe that the system will take care of its self or that the powers that be give a damn about every day people. Capitolism breeds competition which is not always good. We in America seem to think it is always good to be in competition about everything you do. It helps to motivate us to do our best. Well its high time that we should learn that doing your best is about more than beating everyone else. It is about doing right because right is the right thing to do. When we perform at our best we get more out of this experience we call life. We understand more and gain truth. If we all did the best we could without anyone having to feel superiior or inferior we could eliminate most of the constant struggle and strife between the different peoples of this earth. In the end all would gain from the collective efforts of the whole insted of segregating and creating inequality among man kind. As long as we kling to the presemt system we will have at least one division- always. The haves and the have nots. And if thier is division we will fall eventually.
So what of those who will not contribute? Do they also reap the benefit of the system? Thier in lies the rub, what do we do with those that do and can not contribute? What if they can but will not, what then? Who decides what a valid contribution is? It's never as simple as it seems is it.
I heard a guy say one time that this is just a ride. "A little scary at first, then it gets fun, then you start saying wait a minute is this just a ride or is this real. And someone says hey I can see the tracks its just a ride. From where i sit in the car I can see the road, its o.k. It's just a ride. And then we kill him, we kill all the guys that try and tell us this. But thats o..k. its just a ride. We can change it right now, its easy. No hard work, no savings of money, nothing we have to learn or some great technology we must create.Its just a choice, just a simple choice-right now. Between fear and love." Bill Hicks, check him out if you have not already.
I think capitalism can work fine if it's regulated. Problem is, since Reagan our govt has been deregulating big business/big money, supposedly in the name of a "free marketplace." However, there's no "free" market when ordinary people and small businesses can't compete with the Walmarts of the world.
We always need oversight and accountability over any power--whether the power exists within a politician or within a large & wealthy corporation.
Some socialism is good--public schools, public roads and parks, libraries, etc. Without these resources the poor wouldn't have the resources to express a voice in our society. We need more resources, such as health care & university education made available for everyone--rich and the poor.
Capitalism and socialism can co-exist and provide a check over each other's power. Problem is, we have too many people in our govt with ties to big business/big money. We need to bring back regulations, such as taxation of businesses that outsource work to other countries. Bush admin was giving companies tax breaks to ENCOURAGE them to outsource work to third world countries! Instead they should be penalized for the tremendous harm they've done to our country.
Very disturbing.
I agree with Allan, xxxx, and so many more. Yes. A lot of Americans have the "Hollywood" perception of reality as I used to have growing up with TV. Get out of the box! I feel capitalism is not an evil system if the playing field is even. It's not anymore because of our banking-based economy. Liberty sold out to the banking, oil, and plastic pigs. Read my comment above. Our founding fathers warned us.
Capitalism is not the problem. Super capitalism with a fraudulent banking system that stole our economy in 1913 is the problem. Fractional reserve banking which runs our economy on debt and destroys families is the problem. Big corporations just fit in perfectly with our corrupt banking system to rob us all blind. The FED is a privately owned bank organized for private profit. Moore's film is partly correct, but does not explore the banking issue at all. If we don't correct the slavery system of fractional reserve banking we will never rid ourselves of corruption. Vote Ron Paul!
oh Capitalism we love you and we hate you.
anyone complaining his info is wrong? Moore carries a $10,000 check with him everywhere he goes, and has been since his first film. That check is for any person that can prove to him just one factlet or bit of information he uses in any of his docs as purposely malicious, biased, fraudulent, or plain wrong. Not one person has ever received the check.
Not only does he do his research, but has a network of people under him re-check those facts before he inserts them into his films. The point of a documentary is to let facts, figures, interviews, and footage speak for themselves. Personal opinions are saved for voice-overs and narration.
This is one of the reasons an overwhelming amount of people easily dismiss those who like to complain about info, statistics, and whole segments in his films. If you actually believe you have info or some form of truth he ignored or lied on, go ahead and try to prove that correct and collect your money. Of course, it won't happen.
It is ironic that I have to wait 54 minutes to complete the film or buy something in order to watch it properly when the theme of the movie is against capitalist extortion. oh well, Micheal Moore has made it out of Flint but all he is has illustrated is his new found popularity is in occordance with atleast compliance to this dumb system.
Well, lets not forget that america built Germany, America built Italy, France, UK and America built Japan. After ww2 these countries were bankrupt war zones with no buildings standing.
Capitalism is not bad in and of it self. capitalism is the reason why 5 billion people live in mud huts and of the 1 billion non poor people in the world 300 million are in america.
Many people do not understand that the average european from countries like france, italy, germany, uk are poor by american standards. Having been to europe I can say homelessness is far worse there, you have mobs of homeless people walking around down town marseille, not a pretty sight.
America needs to bring back the death penalty for corporate fraudsters, eliminate a whole bunch of taxes, and allow people to get richer. I don't see what is so wrong with allowing everyone to become rich, i'd rather all americans be rich than all americans be equal like in cuba.
America built the UK? that is dumbest thing I have ever heard!¬
BS Detector just went off. We in Europe, specificly in Germany do NOT have those things accredited to us in this movie.
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.
Thomas Jefferson
Well, did he actually state "the government should adopt socialism instead"? I don't recall that part of the film. He leaves that up to the viwer. For a Moore film this isn't that bad. Compared to Sicko, at least he didn't overkill the anecdotes. His facts are backed. America is like last on the socioeconomic living standards in regards to wages, class gap etc of all the industrial countries. After the UK if I'm not mistaken. Those are the kind of facts that Americans need to pay heed to, I'm glad he straight up dished that kind of reality in our faces. To me he's not saying "Let's all be happy socialists"
Moreso "There's something wrong with this picture, and lets get everyone on the same page so we can rectify it." That's no sooo bad.
Moore delivers his usual one-sided propaganda piece, and lefties eat it up. I don't mind a viewpoint, but I'd like to see both sides and make up my own mind. Moore thinks Castro, Chavez, communism, and socialism are peachy keen. With those systems, you get everything for free, nobody has to work, and there are no abuses of authority (like, well, Stalin?)
This breath to much of america to relate to. Strange doc.
I want a careful, considerate inquiry from you; give me your lecture yavanna, Don't direct us to somebody else, I promise I wont write anything until you are finished, but it better be carefully, can you do that?:)
don't get distracted all of you take it simple, corruption is not something that is excluded to the economic or political level; selfishness, greed, fear, are all attributes that exert corruption in action to whatever, so we are talking about action, if the mind is not capable of being corrupted, bribed and sticks to what is says, means it; then such a mind can function in any system; so then carefully we can negate a search for a better system, and all that foolishness, trap we get into; in fact such a mind does not need a system at all, so for the time being most of the world lives according to some system so how is it that we can understand all the factors completely, so you see this is really a mathematical problem I have laid out in case you all are wondering of it just philosophically; generally we have such a derogatory view of what corruption is and we place it some place else, in the white house or business, or that business men are corrupt, so that means we have some image of it, but do you ever wonder if you are capable of being corrupted, conforming which is a part of corruption isn't it? this is like that thing a business man told me when talking about buying a car from a private buyer and the price is high, so he said to me all of that does not matter what he says; when he sees the cash we have the real story here
SteveJC
I`m the same I like to have a bite back, but if you read my first comment again it wasn't an attack - perhaps I should have used the word "people" instead of "you."
I do agree with most of your points. I was merely trying to address the points which to me seemed the most relevant and making a sideways point that the individual's ego has very little do with economics and free market systems.
I absolutely cannot stand Michael Moore. He is just as corporate owned as most of the other "crusaders" and although he makes semi decent films which are anti establishment in some regards - they are never about new issues, instead rather pretending to "scoop" on already widely known facts. In some ways it's a good thing because it does make his information become even more main stream but I often wonder what "his" real agenda is. It's what people like him leave out and don't question which points to the real issues.
Reward.
It seems that as money shifted from representing something solid in a bank vault to just a piece of paper, so reward has shifted from something spiritual to something solid, a TV, a house, a car.
Corporatism leads to a culture of reward, of profit, of greed, of corruption.
When doctors and nurses have to leave to do something else because the financial reward isnt sufficient, yet a corporation can profit from the sick who must pay extortionate parking fees, something is wrong.
I want a society where people grow up to choose medicine over finance, public service over armed services (not that armed service is bad, but there wouldnt be such a need).
Any alternative to capitalism would have to incorporate (bad choice of word I know!) parts of communism, parts of socialism, parts of capitalism.
Of course, I'm no expert but I can see that the first step must be the awakening within people of their individual powers and rights and to relearn to take responsibility for ourselves and others. Put an end to corporations leaching off us by providing 'services' that take away personal freedoms and responsibilities.
In the end, whatever 'ism' is given to this new system, my fear is that media manipulation will be used once again by the empowered few to coerce the newly awakened majority into conforming to producing for the top few percent.
Hence we are doomed to constantly revolve through alternatives, from one extreme to the other.
What we can do now though, while accepting that the corrupt few have only acted naturally by their 'survival of the fittest' instincts, is to also learn from nature and act like antibodies attacking a disease, en masse, together, united, with one aim, to make what was previously healthy, healthy again.
Yavanna, like NR before. have mentioned my ego which frankly I consider a bizarre contribution, hence my response before. I have not hurled a single insult prior to receiving one.
In defence of democracy, its clear that the ideal has failed and that the system has been hijacked by corporate interests, but the shallow sheen of fairness that it has provided to the general public over recent generations has stemmed civil disorder which in turn has lead to the exceptional developments that we are benefiting from daily, unless of course you are a person (of which there are many) who fails to recognise the wonder that goes along side the injustice of the modern world.
Now if I'm reading your post correctly you are saying like me that capitalism is not the problem, in fact I cannot think of a fairer principle than working, receiving then spending as you like.
My beef with the film is the gross simplifications that he uses to make an fundamentally invalid point.
Perhaps his next film should be Electoral reform and how democracy can work. An informed and empowered populace can drive policy for the good of the majority.
SteveJC
"we need much stronger government intervention to prevent the excesses of greed and imbalance from limiting the markets ability to do good"
"income disparity is inevitable in a market, the worst excesses should be tempered by an uncorrupted government."
My comment was a response to the economic and governmental corruption points raised in this discussion and yes I read all the comments and framed mine in response to the most relevant. I did not say "Things are terrible - don't bother to discuss!"
Apparently THEN I had the temerity to voice an opinion which you regarded as an attack. One thing I have noticed is you are very defensive and insulting towards any commenter whom doesn't agree entirely with you. If you read something into my comments that you feel is contemptuous then you well be right, for instance I`m very unforgiving of people who try to sound clever but are not bright enough to use a spell checker.....
As Justin mentioned earlier the problem isn't capitalism. It is corporatism. And to go one step further, it is the power they have over governments that is the root of corruption. Remove connections between the two and there is your simple solution. How to do that would require a massive shift in how Governments are elected and who they consist of. Democracy has failed. We see the corrupt politicians and governments within democratic systems yet can do nothing about it. Politicians are not about to relinquish their power voluntarily.
Now can YOU offer any solutions or alternatives?
Yavanna, You have joined the conversation with a comment that equates to "things are terrible, dont even bother to discuss" and then you have the teremity to throw a mild attack too. Thanks for your contribution.
Has democracy failed? there are only relative answers to this question, no absolutes, you are welcome to speculate about alternatives that could of been incorperated in histroy past, and please do, please add anything construtive, can anyone offer alternatives? Micheal Moore did not even try and you seem to be following his footsteps.
we will get to systems later, we have began on that a bit already with regards to its relationship with corruption, so we can if you will stick to it go into it now? what is a system?
no problem yavanna you did not interrupt your comment actually is besides the point, cause if you are following carefully we are actually commenting with regards to fear, corruption, not just at the political levels, so lets take it slow there are others reading as well, I hope that you go into it and stay with it
@Yavanna
YAY! I agree. Politics and Corruption are pretty much inseperable. I'm with you, I also choose to exercise my right to remain silent by NOT voting. I don't buy into the illusion of choice.
Sorry to interrupt this corruption debate with a reality but show me a non- corrupt political party worth voting for in ANY country - democratic or not.
USA or UK for example 2 party systems - both as bad - both as corrupt as the other. To theorise about corrupt voters beyond that is besides the point.
You are merely over emphasising your own ego and self importance with regards to forgone conclusions. One reason I don't vote - I mean no offence but the illusion of control was bereft for me a good few decades ago.
but do you also see that the people are concerned with their own particular security; so we have this problem arising again locally, and essentially they become corrupt voters or in whatever action with regard to themselves
yes, corruption and fear definitely roll together if we can put it that way, so then in any understanding of resolving this problem we must understand the root causes of all of those, I may say that as a result of fear the action is corrupt, selfish, with regard to ones own interest, so then what is the cause of fear? and what is its relationship to conforming, conformity? we really have to be serious about this cause the people generally seem to keep conforming to all of this or the superficial changes that arise, could it be a result of security, the people want to be secure financially, their health and so on, I don't know if you are with me but do you see the connection between fear when it comes to the search for security?
I agree with Eric and Steve. Corruption is the key point of this film but Michael Moore doesnt emphasise it enough and generalises too much about the ideology of capitalism being flawed.
I think his films are needed even though you must keep an open mind while watching them. For example, Sicko highlighted the injustice that 9/11 workers have suffered in the lack of healthcare provided to them and it was a truly sad scene when they went to Cuba and a woman found she was being ripped off in America for drugs available in Cuba for only a few cents. And this is the big bad 'red' Cuba they were told to be scared of? Eye opening for them and many other Americans hopefully. So, in that respect if Moores films encourage the media brainwashed to think differently, they are good. And it was done in a way that could'nt be labelled '9/11 conspiracist'.
'Corruption : A Love Story' might have been a good film.
I was thinking today that theres probably a handful of people who let the money men into positions of power in the Reagan era. I wonder how much of a backhander they got? Was it worth it? Did they buy the big house with it, the big car, the big TV, send the kids to Harvard to be another cog in the machine?
Corruption is the problem and people power is the answer, as shown in the film.
eric I would say that a major component of corruption is fear, when people come into competitive positions within businesses or politics they are inevitably shaped into a mould, the only way to progress is to follow orders and replicate the actions of superiors, only in rare circumstances will a junior member of a group have any possibility of steering policy.
I'm aware of other economic forms but they have only succeeded on paper, China has only now started to really improve the lives of its people and India's flirtation with communist economic forms within a democracy has produced little of value. Africa is a basket case of corruption and abuse by unrestrained capitalists of the western world.
Nobodies Right, income disparity is inevitable in a market, the worst excesses should be tempered by an uncorrupted government.
Smash capitalism then try and buy a loaf of bread.
we see corruption when it comes to politics or business, and so any action when there is corruption must be false and the system participates in this fiasco, so the system is also a psychological creation of a mind which has been brought up to corruption, selfishness, greed, the system on paper is like religion it becomes a danger to the user without a proper warning manual, the user has become dependent on this system and has never learned to do without it which beyond that is really his independence psychologically, the user has never questioned why there is such a drive for a particular system, not a technological standard there is a distinction between those two, that is carefully calibrated process which carries out a particular action which is set to carry something out in some sort of order; however the part we are coming to is the limitation of any system incapable of response to change, and so most of us are seeking to change the system as we are doing over and over when voting or whatever and we keep repeating this over and over again superficially and there is no change
Steve so you are right there, then lets all ask what is corruption? we are all aware of this thing called corruption and we see that it goes against the majority and the effect it has, so naturally we must see that it is there unless we are totally oblivious, but corruption is not something on a political level or business level, so how is it that what we call a good man is capable of being corrupted? what is corruption?
Dear Nodobies Right, its a shame that have felt the need to attack my post with personal comments, pity that you dont have the intellectual capacity to think beyond capitalism = bad and ????insert idea here???? = good.
Should you take then time to re read my post its a defence of the market with a call for restraint, just how do you propose the economy continues its staggering march forward (which as I have stated the majority of people are happy for) without a central authority controlling prodution and distribution? do you want giant goverments calling all the shots?
Your rush for simplistic statments is hollow, please suggest alternatives or refrain from being personal.
Capitalism is not the problem, corruption is.
can I suggest that one puts in to discussion the question of what a system really is? not a particular one, but how does it come about? not historically or intellectually
the point steve, even if you did understand everything there is to know about finance and economics by the age of 19, is that your system is based on disparagement and division of rich and poor, a reenactment of the aristocracy of the old times and that greedy b*tches are ruining the world. When some people have billions and billions of dollars, and some people are dying of starvation and treatable disease, something's wrong. If that ain't clear I dont know what complicated mathematic equation will be good enough to be worthy of your super mind...deflate the ego there big guy.
The worst Moore film in my opinion, he has taken his style of excessive simplification to new level here, to berate the market economy as an inherently evil system is a plain disservice to the gains that we enjoy in our everyday lives, it might come as a surprise to some but even people in India and Africa are glad for increasing standards of technology and life options.
No-one will claim that the market is perfect, I believe as a social liberal that we need much stronger government intervention to prevent the excesses of greed and imbalance from limiting the markets ability to do good, but I would never lash out in simplistic terms as he has here. I grew past these views by the age of 19.
Really really dumb, a real disservice to the left, a shame as I like his other films despite their flaws.
Nice observation Justin.
As you read some of the prior comments you'll notice the issue of Moore's "hollywood" approach to documentary filmaking. I think the fact that he added, "A Love Story", is a comment on the narrative of this documentary. Like alot of romance's, this one end's in tragedy.
Capitalism? I think what he was trying to get @ in this film is CORPORATISM
I didn't mean to belittle the leftist veiwpoint in the previous comments. Although I like to look at things objectively, I can't really say I follow the right side's politics to the same degree as the left, if I did, I may have been able to give a similar example. I especially didn't mean to implay that I am an advocate for Fox News. Since they consider themselves to be "opinion based news", I would say that anyone who gets their information from those sources, would be equally, if not more so, the type of person baseing their veiws of the world on programs meant for entertainment purposes.
@Jim
Right on, we all get like that, and you obviously got my point since you articulated it alot better than I did.
@allan
It's all good man, just ticked me off for a minute, but I get your point and agree that its sad that entertainment is necessary for info these days. Just caught me at the wrong time mate =P. Anyway great doc... the 72 minute thing sucks but was worth the hour wait lol!
End the FED. The fed is the problem! They counterfeit money and continue to destroy the value of a dollar. Michael Moore's documentaries are completely biased and give out wrong information. No matter what political affiliation you are, the people need to revolt against the Fed (who actually started the unconstitutional income tax; you should not be taxed for your labor) and against big government. Wall st. can run on a free market and the middle class will be restored.
@JIM
for real.
great doc!
Japans motor industry is hardly a model as Moore seemingly claims. They've gone down exactly the same path as America... no security,only 'part-time' posts available with full-time hours,destruction of pensions and healthcare. Michael Moore makes good films, but its hard to understand why he always makes mistakes like this when he clearly knows better. I wish he would give more of a full picture rather than change the world to fit his (well-meaning) story.
Great doc....thx for the link.
"I guess this is the only way of teaching uneducated Americans the truth. Too bad plain information isn’t the only way of reaching people."
Sad. But it's the truth.
We are more upset about Simon Cowell leaving AI than Haiti.
Epicurean
Thanks for the advice I`ll try it
@Yavanna
if you havent yet go download Graboid for the 4000mb free download.
i saw someone elses comment on here about it and went and got this doc. it was great and audio/video were 10 and 10
on a side note i agree with another viewer here who said that saying capitalism is evil is a little too far, i would agree for a different reason. 1. evil is subjective and ultimately meaningless, 2. capitalism is only a system, the system can be used for evil or good. in our present zeitgeist our species will use capitalism for "evil" the majority of the time.
i do agree with Michael Moores answer to a better system than capitalism and that system would be democracy. the company there that was run democratically was really nice to see, and the bread company where people were getting 60,000+ a year was one of the greatest things i had ever seen.
@Jim
Take it easy buddy. You could deffenatly say conservatives are dumb if you want to. I watch and enjoy the daily show. I was simply using it as an example of people choosing to get their information through television shows ment for entertainment. Chill out buddy.
What?? Good lord he has this so backwards it's almost funny. Why didn't the people getting evicted just deal with it? Isn't their attachment to their property against Moore's preaching??
@ allan
What an ignorant statment. To assume "more and more leftist" do is factless and malicous. By the same ignorance, I can say conservatives are dumb because they get their political education from fox news. That statment is factless and tastless. Now if you would like to say more and more "people, both red and blue" are getting info from less factual sources that would be fine. Im just tired of seeing these blatant pundit comments. Go troll in a debate forum please...
I loved this one.
@Hardy
Agreed. In America it seem's that you have to entertain first, and educate second. For example, more and more American's (leftist) choose to get their information from programs such as The Daily Show. I think Mr. Moore recongizes this and utilizes it. The sad part is, most people in the western world seem to base reality on what they see in movies. I can't tell you how many of my friends think "Blood Diamond's" is the actual way of life in Africa.
We'll, I don't like Michael Moore's documentaries per se, but in he's having the right ideas.
I guess this is the only way of teaching uneducated Americans the truth. Too bad plain information isn't the only way of reaching people.
Capitalism, socialism and democracy are not necessarily mutually exclusive. I think Michael Moore was being too absolute by saying capitalism is evil. Most economist would probably disagree with him.
And opposing capitalism with his religion to is kind of opinionated. I don't like his biased way of presenting information.
Blockbuster doc.
Had no problem watching this doc. in two mega-video parts.
All the power to the American workers!!
Thanks Vlatko, keep up the good work!
thanks vlatko, loved your doc on socialism, equally love this doc bwt capitalism :) keep it coming buddy! greetings from the philippines :P
Thanks Vlatko for sharing this. It's a great, typical Michael Moore film...
Finally! I've been wanting to see this for ages. Thanks, Vlatko!!