Did Cooking Make Us Human?
We are the only species on earth that cooks its food - and we are also the cleverest species on the planet.
The question is: do we cook because we're clever and imaginative, or are we clever and imaginative because our ancestors discovered cooking?
Horizon examines the evidence that our ancestors' changing diet and their mastery of fire prompted anatomical and neurological changes that resulted in taking us out of the trees and into the kitchen.
Homo habilis was about a metre tall with long, swinging arms – not much to look at, apparently, but clever. Habilis had a bigger brain (50% bigger) than his forebear, Australopithecus. Was this down to his diet?
In Did Cooking Make Us Human?, a clutch of determined scientists set out to discover the extent to which diet played a role in the evolution of the human brain, using a variety of mildly alarming gadgets.
Professor Peter Ungar has a contraption he calls the Bitemaster 2, a mechanical chewing machine he has fitted out with genuine Australopithecine gnashers.
For the first time in three million years they were set to work on a carrot, with remarkable success, considering.
On raw meat they performed less ably, but teeth from a later human ancestor – smaller, sharper, "crestier" – made short work of it.
You certainly wouldn't want to get your finger caught in there, as Prof Ungar nearly does. "Wait!" he yells at his start-button-happy colleague.
Despite the fact, we call ourselves humans we are mammals. We are just the most intelligent and resourceful animal. Having said that, humans are also responsible for the worse atrocities in history. Our fingers play a huge role in our ability to create but there are many examples of people overcoming disabilities which is due to our intelligence and desire.
Having said all of that diet is extremely important to our health and well being. Eating more vegetables and fruit would improve the health of many people in the world. Raw is even better. However, it takes doing a little research to ensure you are eating a balanced diet for our nutritional needs.
This vid is like an ad for the meat/food industry. There are sooo many
WRONG and unsatisfying statements here its incredible. 11:28 "we THINK ate
meat", "scientist speculate", "researchers think",
"one theory", 23:35 “may have been hunters”.There
are thousands of vegans that THRIVE and NOT only survive on a raw vegan (no
animal based foods) diet. 1 of the arguments was that it takes to much time to
eat and still? do not feel satisfied
(they didnt fed the people any calorie dense veg, fruit or nuts) but they also
realised how long it took the bushmen to "hunt" their meat with a
modern day SHOVEL tho.They celebrated the find. so it must be a very rare treat.
means this people do survive on a plant based diet. to eat a potato raw? is like it eating rice raw. what kinda study is
that?Why didnt they take a food like spinach which is full of enzymes that help
the digestion immensely. in fact 1 of the reasons people have digestive issues
nowadays is because they dont consume enough raw enzymes! also eating a raw
diet will make u healthier because we are burning the micronutrients with
cooking, which we need for every activity in our body. yes there are some foods
that need to be cooked like potatoes!I cant believe they made a study where
they fed 1 snake? with a whole block of
meat and the other 1 minced meat and then said that the minced digested faster,
obviously! its like its been pre chewed! so our brain evolved cuz we started to
eat meat.what about chimpanzees that are eating meat? should their brain not be getting bigger then?what
about carnivores? they must be geniuses because their digestive tract is super
small compared to ours, so their brain should have evolved to super-size since
they take away much less energy!the cooking of most veg actually slows down the
digestion because the important nutrients that aid digestion are burned out.
Please check this things to yourself guys!If u really believe that animal based
food give u more energy, eat ONLY animal based food and try to work out!be
warned tho ;). there are 1000's of studies that proof how unhealthy an animal
based diet is. if you care for your health i would strongly recommend you to
read/ watch those studies. Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. T. Colin Campbell Phd, Dr. Doug
Graham, Dr. Neal Barnard. the china study is the most comprehensive study ever
made on nutrition.
Yeah, you didn't really pay close attention. You're comparing a modern environment with grocery stores and nutrient enriched crops grown in relatively controlled environments. Details like, where they mentioned that EVERY ANIMAL that consumes ONLY vegetation spends the MAJORITY of their lives grazing because of the LOW CALORIE content in plants. It had nothing to do with "oh they didn't eat the right enzymes to get nutrients." The minerals in spinach are NOT a substitute for simple or complex Hydrocarbons (sugars and carbohydrates). To make it further plants are NOT an EFFICIENT source of proteins, Plants use a lot of B-bonds, many of which are not breakable by the flora we use (ex Cellulose). Cooking HELPS with that all the way around, Cooking starts breaking down the Amino Acid bonds, loosening the chains. Overcooking makes those chains get tangled (which is why overdone foods get tough).
Also for the record, compare HERBIVORES and higher Carnivores and Omnivores. ALL HIGHER LIFE FORMS consume a protein source. Most Vegans and Vegetarians *I* know -- 1) shop in GROCERY STORES where "gathering" a large quantity does not consume a lot of energy. 2) Buy SOME packaged foods. 3) Usually still prepare some meals. 4) Supplement their diets with alternatives that, again, would not have been so readily and easily accessible. Big example would be Mushrooms and other Fungi WHICH ARE NOT PLANTS and on a cellular level are closer to Animals
For that little "eat only meat" challenge, I can EASILY counter that with saying don't go to the grocery store, and NO FARMING either. Since Farming came AFTER Humans were consuming an Omnivorous diet and AFTER we were cooking. No using anything that comes from any kind of commercial production, processing, or equipment. The documentary isn't about our diet and it's options NOW, rather the benefit COOKING brought in making the best, nutrient and energy dense diet MORE efficient by making digestion easier (thus reducing materials and energy needed to break down food) while increasing bio-availability of energy and nutrients.
If you care about your health, don't rely on those "studies" because quite frankly, you can make a study or paper say anything you want it to through manipulation and/or omission of data. They do it a LOT in statistics. BEST thing you can do is CONSULT A NUTRITIONIST. Somebody who has spent probably 10 years of college studies and likely had to have something published just to get that degree, Not EVERY detail is in those reports and the key to it being a truly ADEQUATE diet and healthy you need to consult a professional. Want to be Vegan but not eat carrots, they can tell you other sources that would be good for Beta-Carotene. (just an example)
Just My personal Opinion, shouldn't be giving advice on other people's diets unless your a qualified professional, ESPECIALLY when your "source" is studies and papers.
I eat vegan except for the eggs of my own chickens:) I eat raw but lots of cooked aswell:) Full raw made me sick.
I think that is Lacto-Ovo vegetarian, without the milk no ? Full raw can be done, but you have to supplement with vitamins and either freeze, juice or puree your food to make the nutrients more accessible. Our digestive systems just aren't geared for a full raw diet anymore, we've been cooking for thousands of years.
The healthiest people I've ever known were vegan, to me this documentary reeks of meat industry propaganda.
Its not about eating meat, It is about cooking food.. Hence the title
Yea, because Mongolians and Inuites are sick as hell.... rofl! Everyone should eat by his genetic standarts and his roots, not vegan, stupid propaganda.
I Eat Vegan foods and eat it raw. If anything cooking/eating flesh made us less than human and more toward an animal in the psychological sense. We became nothing more that the social animal plagued by polarised emotions and duality.
If we didn't eat meat we would still be monkeys. The added proteins and fats allowed our brains to grow and evolve.
Ever heard of a vegan diet! This video lies a lot. We cant live on fruits veggies and nuts alone Bull Sh%^! Yeah because today we live on nothing but calories and we don't get enough nutrition . This video want you to continue to eat your **** food thats going to give us caner in the long run.VIDEO IS ILLUMINATI! DOWN WITH FREEMASON DOWN WITH GM FOOD!
Vegans still cook their food... It's not saying meat changed us, but cooking. Pay attention.
I would like you to take stock of where your vegan foods come from, how far away, can you grow them locally. How many varieties of plants you consume and tell us if you supplement with fortified products or vitamins...
GMO is saving the world right now and will be the only saving grace for us in 40 years when we top 9 billion global population. GMO provides greater yields, drought and pest resistant crops that feed YOU and billions of people around the world, the only thing wrong with it is fu@#ing monsanto and companies like them that patent life and design proprietary product like roundup ready crops and sue honest farmers out of business.
I have to concede that you are however correct on the "we live on nothing but calories and we don't get enough nutrition" part though, add to that, not enough fiber, too much sodium and too many additives.
If everyone followed a 100 mile diet, vegan, vegetarian or not, and had fewer hellspawn, everyone would be much better off !
GMO's are dodgy as f--k mate tests on rats etc have shown to make their offspring infertile and no it doesnt have to be our only saving grace if you've watched Zeitgeist or the Venus project you would know that they could create greenhouses that go 100's of feet into the air saving space and fruit and vegetables could be grown all year round in them so no GMO is definitely not the way forward at all.
Dude, the Venus Project is just Soviet-style central planning dressed up to look more modern. Exactly the same tenets - and we know how efficient that system was in terms of feeding millions of people. Oh wait, there were lines, shortages, and widespread misery. So much for that solution... By the way, most food is genetically modified (e.g., corn looks nothing like its ancestor, even the organic apples you eat are a far thing from their ancestors; same goes for livestock). GMO has its place, for example Norman Borlaug is credited with saving a billion lives with his work producing higher-yield, disease-resistant wheat. There might be costs too, not just benefits, as in every new technology, but we cannot turn back the time on progress... just like we cannot go back to eating raw food, after so many generations of adaptation to cooked food.
Cocking alone may have not made us human. But, we couldn't became humans without coking.
eating meat was a key change in human evolution but this documentary shows another aspect of evolution applied even to other species like mice and pythons as we saw.
yeah... but with cooking food they wouldn't need strong jaw muscles in the back of their skull so more room for brain
Woah.. as an earlier commentor said, this doc has a foregone conclusion. Even more disturbingly, it states wild speculation as fact. They claim unequivocally that our early ancestors didn't eat meat and that later meat inclusion in the diet was responsible for an increase in brain size. First of all, even chimpanzees often eat a very high percentage of meat in their diet. It is too bad when a supposedly scientific documentary follows the unscientific approach of fitting facts to a predetermined conclusion - and then puts it all down as unquestionably proven.
This doc is full of really gross, slow-motion close ups of people eating. You have been warned! Despite the interesting subject matter, I just couldn't watch all those nasty, gratuitous eating scenes. I had to turn it off after 15 minutes. It's a shame they had to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
lol i hate watching people eat, gross.
I think the theory that we are human alien hybrids has more credibility, sounds nuts but sounds possible when you look at the evidence
I am a raw foodist. 8 years. I dont understand why that study said it wasnt possible. It is.
lol i dont get how you could keep eating ONLY raw food after seing this. do you believe in god, too?
"we are left programed to eat energy full, sweet, fatty food.''
-hence fast-food popularity.
the raw-only diet must be something the illuminati invented to ridiculise people, while they were inventing mcdonalds.
No, it's not the illuminati. Do you think they want people to be healthy? I suppose the Illuminati invented breastmilk and colostrum for babies, too.
@Atrophy
Great stuff, next time don't try to resist :)
@ Atrophy & Achems
Atrophy Yes I think that is what I am saying. What I do know is I see jesus's teachings taught in a twisted view to another whole agenda.I do not see what he taught as meaning what they teach.
I see science and his teachings from a different context as one the same thing.
Jesus actually is teaching what science confirms.I see so much that I just keep connecting.
Did you see the fractals Doc that just came out? Even that has meaning to me.. God made us in his own image. Fractals are parts of a whole yet each is a whole of the part.
This is Sacred geometry that was already known and yet science is just catching on...... These are stuff of the Initiates practices and same stuff our modern religions condemned as sorcery and evil etc.....both in yesterday and today. This is the stuff that the Papal condemmed the scientist the Alchemist for studying and practicing. I could be so very wrong when I get to the end of my trail. but I know this: something is more to all this then we are taught and if it is against modern religions then I want to know about it.I want to know what it is that I see weaved in and out thru the teachings and understandings that I see.
You know there is something about duality that we must remember. There is one side of duality and then another side. But the most important part to remember is that those are the choices given and we need to hold onto the truth that Just cause their is a duality doesnt mean we have to choode either one. Because there is always a choice to choose neither. There is always a third choice. That choice is our own free will.That is the path I am on. Anyhow We are changing moving this conversation to …”the Primacy of consciousness” i might be behind our car broke down doing our paper route this weekend and things are a bit tough for us until we get caught up from its wake it left.
Thanks for keeping an open mind
@Connie
So you're supposing that Jesus was a smart man educating people with what passed for science at the time and the previous religion manipulated it to their own advantage ?
Not entirely impossible given religions continued efforts to infringe on standard education as well as book burning and 'witch hunts' by various powers over time.
Achems is quite correct, we have run severely off topic :D
@Connie:
Really do not know what to say, because my thoughts are there was no person as Jesus, just the latest in a long line of deities stemming from antiquity with the same characteristics. So my take on that would be moot.
What you could do is google... "Plato's allegory of the cave", How reality is not what it seems, and start from there.
I suggest that we pursue this venue on the doc..."the Primacy of consciousness" here on TDF where this discussion will be allowed.
@ Achems I wish you would keep an open mind to what I am saying cause I could use your brains in the science area to help me test out my thoughts here as I keep trying to figure this out. I am not talking about religion as commonly known. and I am not talking about the Bible as it is patched together.
What I mean is the first testament doesnt apply either cause it was the Jews teaching that Jesus was speaking against and trying to tell people the Kingdom of God is within you, That we ourselves possess our own free will.
He was saying that they did not have it right... and then because he drew such a crowd Constantine used him and made up a whole new version of Jesus that mixed a popourri of religious cults in a pot.
I think This guy Jesus was trying to open the lid off the can of worms the world was creating and he got used as a pawn for the wrong agenda. I believe what he was teaching was science and Alchemy etc....
But anyhow that is my own work to figure out.But I find it facinating to read the Bible and see things in this light and when I do a whole new story is unveiling.
The planes and heavens are dimensions. etc... I could never post all of it... Nor really want to. I dont want to convince anyone anything I just want to finish these thoughts to the end and see what develops.
I will read your links thanks.
@Connie:
They just came out of the stone age, quantum?? they thought that the world was still flat until galileo, this was the bronze age,
There will never be a marriage between science and religion! ever!
I am sorry to say this, but the only way humans can ever progress technology wise is to eliminate all religion. period.
they never thought the earth was flat, how stupid do you think they were! go to a high place and you can tell the earth curves... that was some poet around 200 years ago that made that bull up!
Actually, religion is what fostered the scientific revolution. Do some research and you'll find many of the pioneering scientists of the Renaissance and Post-Renaissance were actually deeply religious.
@Achems , this is the closest I have been to describing what I have been trying to find conclusive evidence for. And I have not been able to spit out what I think.
That There was a Jesus who was teaching Quantum physics not religion and the Bible and religion was all part of the sun God worship for the mass control.
That this Jesus was used by False religious believers to use as control over masses ans still keep thier Sun God while they gained control and steered the christians on a false path by twisting the reality of Jesus.
I think it is so important for Christians and scientists to work together so the veil can be torn. The only veil I see is religion itself.
Thats all I was meaning to relate All along
@Connie:
There is nothing wrong with sharing viewpoints. That is what these blogs are about, you are superimposing science with spiritualism I suppose, and then adding religion in the mix to find a common ground. I think in effect you are saying everything comes from the mind. That I do not know, but some reputable scientists/physicists seem to think so. For there are parallels drawn to eastern religions and quantum physics,
See..."youtube-a conscious universe-the observer effect"
And..."youtube-the Copenhagen effect"
And no, was not describing "Genesis" in the bible. Or any invisible so called Gods. even though it may have seemed that way to you. (LOL)
@Achems For what ever its worth and not intending to suggest you are purposely suggesting to say this but, You are describing exactly The creation story/ Not the one religees as you call them would describe but instead from peoples who had their stories stolen and twisted for political purposes.
It is said that Ea. I believe ? Had a thought Then spoke the words and with his breath and word the original genesis story began.
Quantum physics are the same you think you act as though it is and then the transformation/creation comes.
To me and others Quantum Physics is the same as what the original genesis story describe. The stuff that coomes from a path of The Magi or Kabbalah path. However take note that many rivers are said to have come from the sea and not all river beds have water.
The real story of man and creation and being creators are science of today. Somewhat let us say Alchemists but still here there are some dry river beds leading to the seas.
The genisis Story Is about how Quantum physics works.The world religions have changed the interpretation of it for their own agenda.
I don't really have a mastery of the vast knowledge of it all so I probably could,not get too far into deep disscussion of it. But while I saw the opportunity to share a viewpoint That parallels what you said I wanted to just mention it.
Thanks...
@Hesus:
No one knows death of course, no one alive anyway, we can only envision it in the third person, never the first. Only envision death by seeing dead bodies etc:
Quantum theory is not a paradox, it is even more stranger than that! No words for it.
Everything comes from ideas first, than mathematical constructs, then theories, then proven facts. One step at a time.
But science being what it is, always in a state of flux. for new developments.
No one knows the answers! Maybe there is none.
@ Achems
I think that after death it is much like before birth. What need is there for eternal entity if it only experiences this brief amount of time we have? It would be a paradox if I were not aware of it now.
Actually quantum seems to be a paradox. It is mostly a mathematical construct in a form of equations. Correct me if I am wrong but reasoning that there are limitless possibilities that all exist is because math works out no matter what variables you put in. Hm... not convincing enough for me. If I can find one impossibility in my reality it means that they are incorrect.
Too bad as I would love to fly. A more earthly example perhaps is an imprisoned person that is limited to a pool of probabilities in his limited environment.
@ Hesus
YEs I made a typo. DID you notice how many times I got it correct?
@Hesus:
You are right, we are limited by our 5 senses, can only envision 3 dimensions plus time. So just by saying that, it does mean there is much more that we can not envision.
Yes when we die there is no more world etc: for us. But there is no oblivion either.
When you say "your entity is doomed to eternity to a state of no awareness" again by saying that you are saying that we should be aware off a state of no awareness, and be aware of an eternity when we die? that is sort of a paradox is it not?
I do not know what you mean by your personal experience?
We are collapsing the waveform by looking. That is what a lot of quantum physicists say. Don't take my word for it.
Anyway, the best for 2011.
@ Achems
Even if time and space are an illusion which we perceive through our ?computer brain? it is still nevertheless limited for our entity. Once you die your so called separate entity losses the brain through which it interacts with the world. Unless you are talking about reincarnation your entity is doomed to eternity to a state with no awareness. I have a hard time excepting that absolutely every possibility exist. From my personal experience I can tell you that we are limited. What is collapsing the waveform?
@ Connie It is TDF and not TDK ;) @ all a wonderfull 2011! @ Vlatko many thanks for this great site.
@Arnold Vinette
Not to mention the side effects of drinking too much 'diet' soda. The Aspartame breaks down into a few nasty chemicals that the body cant deal with very quickly. In some cases it caused symptoms akin to MS.
I think the primary change between the raw food and cooked food diet these days is the process by which our 'non raw' foods are produced and preserved. I come from farmer stock and can tell you meat, potatoes and hefty quantities of milk hasn't done them at all badly. The main difference is the source. Home grown meat, home grown fruit and vegetables and milk from those home grown cows.
I agree with your take on food, when you discussed the raw food versus the cooked food of nowadays.
Also, your comments on aspartame. It is pure poison.
I used to use it all the time in my coffee and gum; not only did it affect my short term memory, I've had inexplicable tumours all over my internal organs. I even had to have a kidney removed because of this condition.
My doctor told me that he's seeing people with this condition more and more. He's convinced that aspartame is the cause, after interviewing these patients.
Now it's affecting my liver! I haven't touched aspartame in 2 years!
This was a very interesting documentary on the evolution of cooking food and brain size. Unitl I watched this BBC documentary I never even associated the two.
However following the logic of the program and the scientists made me think about the association of these two aspects of being human.
Several years ago I experimented with an apples only diet and found just as the test subjects did that it didn't work. I was left feeling continuously hungry and later was going to the bathroom all the time.
Only when I switched back to a balanced diet of cooked meat & fish, cooked vegetables, cooked starches (potatoes and rice), and the occassional fruit did my proper energy level return. Now I know why because of this documentary, several years later on.
This is an important program for kids to watch at school so they realize why it is important to eat a balanced diet. It all comes down to be able to give your body the energy it needs to get the job done and keep the brain sufficiently powered.
And a healthy balance of foods accomplishes this.
I would be interested to see how the brain reacts to someone drinking a Coke or Pepsi drink. I have just recently learned how dangerous it is to drink a soft drink a day. I used to think of these drinks as just water. However the fructose sugar in a soft drink makes them anything but like water and unhealthy in any daily quantity.
Weight gain of 10 lbs to 15 lbs can be expected for someone drinking a Coke or Pepsi a day for a year. Many people do not even think twice about it. This can happen without a person even knowing what they are doing to themselves.
So great program and how the human body adjusted to a switch in cooking its meals by enlarging the brain and allowing humans to do all of the incredible mental tasks they do today.
Arnold Vinette
Ottawa, Canada
Enjoy your cooked food people :P
Small guts... yeah right.. loosen the belt :P
Merry Christmas !! :-)
This one came across like a doc working on a foregone conclusion ... never a good sign!
But yes, with raw food embellished with manure, pesticides, fertilizers, animal feces, what-have-you, we're all better off cooking food than not ...
I read somewhere that in ancient Indian Ayurvedic traditions, cooking is considered a process whereby heat energy gets transferred to the food we eat aiding in digestion ... but they also have strict guidelines on how much to cook and what should and shouldn't be cooked.
Another doc called 'food matters' (also on this site) touches upon how cooking food kills nutrients. And that makes sense... our disease-fighting capabilities are puny in comparison to other species that eat their food raw.
To cut a long story short, I say COOK IT...but only a bit :-)
@ Thank You @Vlatko Ps Thank you for all the extra Docs you put out this week. There is much variety and We are enjoying them very much.
@ Christmas Patrons
Merry Christmas to those who celebrate Christmas!
Greetings and HAppy Holidays to Vlatko and all others.
For Uncle Eddys sake we are celebrating Christmas as a last minute thought.
It was such a last minute thought that I did not make the stores in time to get anything from the market to make the Christmas meal that we planned LOL.
However we are fortunate enough to have plenty of food from the freezer to make most anything, except the roasted chicken we had all agreed was our choice meat . so we are having Roast Beef with the trimmings LOL.
I have not celebrated Christmas in many years and it was very hard to get the swing of it. We had to fake it to get started. Gary went to our woods and cut down his first Holiday tree, Let me say "Charlie Brown" Has done better . He chose a Hemlock that was too big! Hardly any branches and what it did have was sticking out across the room. The tree has about 6 branches and yet it is taller than the ceiling and nearly covers the room. we have to duck under it to get into the living room. LOL
We did get to the dollar store in time to buy some decorations and lights. It wont take more than we bought for sure. i think the 12 bulbs will be more than enough to fill the tree. I bet one set of lights will be too much LOL
Any how since we got tired and will decorate the tree when we awake today.
I am missing one thing to make a Christmas today. I Just cannot get into it very deeply without My TDF Films Family.
We are together most everyday connected to thoughts and filling each other with parts of ourselves learning and growing together. I just can't enjoy any Holiday or festivity without sharing it with my TDF family. So with all due Respect for those who are celebrating and those who are not HAve a Wonderfull HAppy DAy and Know you are in my Heart and thoughts.
(((( Hugs to all )))) Connie
Thank you @Connie. Happy Holidays Everyone! Hope you all have a great Christmas...
Very good documentary; congrats go again to the BBC and to V for posting it here - I get a notice in my e-mail when new docs are posted- that is very helpful.Had my cable removed,and hooked my laptop to the TV,first as an experiment intended to be short-term; I honestly thought I would miss home and garden {& cooking)shows the most - not many online, instead I have discovered many more documentaries then imaginable. What a wonderful internet world! I read thru' about half the comments, then gave up after too many Vegan vs Carnivore talk. Then when Evolution was brought in?... I was lost...ummm, how do I say this: Evolution is not a theory - that was a million year old skull of 'our' ancestor shown early in this film; I don't think there is much issue with intelligent beings having different opinions about the 'nature' and origin of consciousness, but the scientific method uses reason to demonstrate truth - too much EVIDENCE to even debate human evolution anymore. Story telling has been a favorite human pass time; modern humans wondered for example why ancient ancestors made up stories about 'belief' in dragons and other fantastical creatures, until, we also unearthed the remains of dinosaurs and more recent extinct animals. Then we said, ah ha now those ancient stories make some sense (our ancestor had no way of being certain that these fearsome creatures were extinct - they could be lurking over the next hill!) We have also had many AH HA moments when reviewing the creation stories of different societies, not different people, because we are genetically one people.(after we killed off another human species 'neanderthals', who it turned out were at least as smart as we were, but could not fight off the disease we brought with us when we met up with one another)... I digress too much. PS. Comment from Princeton who says: "well technically, eating a vegan diet is still feeding on other life" is appreciated. But for me this documentary pointed out something more important ie. there is good reason why eating a wider variety of energy rich, high protein and high fat foods and it's easier digestion (and more nutrients released) from cooking allowed humans to benefit from bigger brains and smaller stomachs. (Not to mention less time needed to eat or hunt, so we could spend time building culture, technologies, etc). Our 'brains' developed a preference (craving) for that high energy food - reasonably then - but in the last century especially, for some of us, food sources are not scarce or seasonal, so our brains "rewards" for eating more fat, more sugars has led to a problem. The implications and understanding of that and what we can 'reasonably' do about it are the point I got from the film and found most interesting.
As far as consciousness is concerned that's completely unknown and pointless to argue because of that. So take it as "I believe this because..." because no one really "knows" for sure.
Natural selection is as evident as artificial selection or sexual selection. We can see the effects and it's pretty hard to disregard it no matter what you believe. The jump from that to speciation is pretty small and not that difficult to understand. Granted it is a THEORY of our origins but it's the most conclusive theory we have and the majority will believe it until a more concrete theory emerges. Not saying that creationism isn't impossible, it's just that we have a theory we can test and see evidence of (supporting and not). Similar to how ancient civilizations believed god made the sun rise, or made rain fall, ect..
Panspermia is also very interesting and worth looking into if you never have.
Its a sad thing that I should write so much with a clear and concise mind and then lose all my writings and find it impossible to regather the heart of what I just wrote with just one extra touch on my keyboard.
I get so angry with myself....grrrr.
Basically twas this: Atrophy,Achems, and Hesus you guys just wrote since comment 75 onward some awesome stuff that I would like to respond too but to keep from writing a book I need to take time. To write the book and then condense it.
You guys have said a mouthful and with good seasonings added. I would like to add mine and demonstrate how they all connect from my view of the fence.
@Hesus:
Yes, I see your viewpoints, as in science my viewpoints are in a constant state of flux if any new evidence arises.
Yes, matter is energy, but who or what condenses energy into matter, that I suppose is where the god thing comes in for a lot of people.
Ah, you say when we die, our consciousness is lost because energy is not organized anymore. by that token you are also saying that we organize energy, Re: collapsing the waveform.
Consciousness is not lost, it is a separate entity.
You are talking of time as if it were not an illusion, but space and time (spacetime) are an illusion, they do not exist in quantum mechanics, therefore that is why everything happens and did happen at once. At a photons perspective there is no time, at the speed of light everything is static, time stands still.
Schizophrenic world? perhaps, but who makes it such? why humans, in most cases with there free will
@ Achems
I have been thinking about this topic a lot and see your points but still can´t agree with you completely.
Matter is a form of condensed energy. We are in a way organised energy. My point is that when we die our consciousness is lost because energy is not organised anymore. When someone dies neurons deteriorate, most of electro magnetic energy powering that being is lost as heat - ergo that particular consciousness is lost.
Time is a flow of space or more accurately light. It defines the passage of time as we perceive it. So snapshots (moments of time) are not frozen but travel away from the point in space where it occurred with the speed of light.
I agree with you on the probability field. What makes us exceptional and is the most defining characteristic that separates us from other life forms on this planet is planning or in other words choosing a particular event in the future from the probability field and are able to realize it.
By my logic I have to say that only the option that happened exist in time and other probabilities do not. They were an option up to that point but were never realized.
And lastly if universe is indeed conscious it means that it is schizophrenic and we are the manifestation of it so Earth is in a way a stellar loony bin for our universe.
Since @Atrophy: brought up quantum physics/mechanics, and the doc "down the rabbit hole".
Will attempt to give my viewpoints which of course does not mean that they are completely viable...but.
I do not like using the term soul. We are all separate "entities"
And yes, entity means eternal. Everything all ready happened, to use an analogy, it is like one big picture album full of unlimited snapshots.
And each snapshot is forever frozen in time. By each snapshot I mean we can follow one event at a time called "nows" that seem to flow in an uninterrupted movement always forward, hence gives us our seemingly flow of time.
Now, we do form our own reality, by choosing choices to take, from the unlimited probability fields, How many of you chose to do something that forever put you on a new path, sometimes even the most mundane choice started a new series of events that became your new reality, to do this or that, to go here of there etc: What of the choices you did not take? they are still there and still being actualized by your other multidimensional selves and just as real.
As in "many worlds theory" "parallel universes theory" anything that can or will or has happened, did.
And since "I think" we live in a conscious universe, we follow the advents of collective consciousness, to form all we see, does not mean it is not there but we by collapsing the wavelength as per quantum physics, convert the electric impulses in our computer brains to form matter, matter is an illusion, an atom is 99.9999% empty.
See the "copenhagen interpretation" and "youtube-a conscious universe-the observer effect"
And again I must add there is no such thing as "oblivion:
Try to imagine a state where nothing exists. Such a state is impossible even contradictory, since the concept existence is necessary to apprehend it. Therefore existence exists necessarily, even if nothing else exists. So there is always "something" instead of "nothing"
@ Atrophy,
I have a serious question for you.
I am racking my brains trying to figure out how you and others are so exceptable to the idea of evolution theorys. with possible explanations as a dihard belief.That so often show no explanation. I honestly thought you were going to be able to give me some hard data backing up your belief. Yet I see only possible explanations so far.
How is it that people bleieve in nothing rather than something that people have explanations for.
There is so much history and pre dated material and stone records of writing that speak of mankinds beginnings. It is the interpretations that are different and need disecting thru the ages. But all cultures have a belief in a higher power.
How is it someone believes in nothing rather than some kind of intelligence somewhere that started existance as we know it?
How is it that people actually must believe there is no soul and that there is not an eternel place for that soul?
I find it hard to fathom that people think we are just flesh and blood.
I find it hard to believe that people actually claim to be Atheist and regard no soul and yet tell someone they LOve them.
If Love cannot be measured or seen then why would an Atheist Love or claim to Love.
I cannot comprehend they they really believe what they believe.
Why would an Atheist have a gut feeling that there teenage child is not back yet from a night out and suddenly gets a gut feeling that they are in trouble. The parent begins to worry and think the worst thoughts and find out its true.
If there is no soul when where do the gut feelings come from?
Just what connects human beings together when they are apart?
How can a mate think and feel what another mate is experiencing without a soul connection?
I quiver to my bones to think there really are people who believe trully there is no soul.. I cannot believe they really believe that. I think they must be so sad and so hurt that they cry out to know. Surely they must be rejecting from pain what they trully want is to feel the connectedness.
@Vic
How did he make us human, magic ?
The theory of evolution provides a possible explanation as to how. Expanding your imagination to the possibility that an all powerful being might just refer to a few billion years as a couple days... Its not so far fetched.
Did cooking make us human ? No, God made us human.
The group of I think 12 volunteers who ate nothing but vegetables were suffering from detox from the unhealthy diet they had been eating up until that point.
The average person has a toxic body which is waiting to develop diabetes, arthritis, heart problems, and/or cancer down the road.
Healthy people who have done fasts and eat vital, life force-filled foods don't have that reaction because their bodies are not so toxic.
The group could have eaten some fruits for energy, as that's what fruits give. Healthy sugars. They don't contain much minerals.
Vegetables are for minerals. They don't contain much sugar.
This doc speaks more like a propaganda piece for the meat and dairy industries.
So many people have been cured of cancer, diabetes, arthritis,...other issues by a raw food diet. They don't need to eat ridiculous amounts of food either.
Check out Dan McDonald, the LifeRegenerator (google).
Check out Dave the Raw Food trucker. Cured of all his ills,
colon cancer, etc. now more vital and energetic than ever.
Check out the movie May I Be Frank.
all of these show that this diet is far superior than the cooked, meat and dairy diet which on the surface works but causes many of the health problems in the developed world.
Raw diets done right give far more energy, appreciate and enjoyment of life, and spiritual passion.
@ atrophy I also would like to know how does DNA coming from a Adam and Eve support Evolution and not The religions? Seems to me it supports both.
If their was a creator then the creator started the same seeds as in Genesis says. Man was created in his image.
If it Aliens they started the Genetics of Man with their test tube DNA samples
If it were Evolution they Evolved from a source that is Unknown. Unless someone really bites the worm too hard and denies the facinated idea that all was per chance and yet things today even still need percise conditions and are so intricate and think that is per chance.
Life has patterns and Geoms and exact numers in their equation of creation. Naw ! I can't bite the big worm I smell the Lure.
Mr. Razor:
"Achems Razor Thats it!… No more mister nice guy! The way that I see it, “Atheist” minds are more “Mature” then the minds of religious people.
There is something about religee’s that remind me of children, almost child-like in there thinking and behaviour. It took a long time for atheists to come out of the closest, but since the ceasing of burning at the stake for heresy by the religious majority. we atheists have come into the fold. Science now “runs” the world.
To me the minds of religious people just have not progressed per. “EVOLUTION”
They still have minds that are heuristic of tree dwellers."
You've been nice up until now? Yikes! It's just a matter of time until those that now "run" the world (the atheists) show themselves just as cruel as anything the Catholic church has done in the past. I'm quite sure of that.
@ Atrophy , A truce is good. Now I would like to know since there is so much hostility in regards to Evolution or Not would you be willing to work with me at seriously without disrespecting one another study the pros and cons.
I am a busy person and always working on another project, I never sit still too long. So it will take time and sometimes it might take a back seat.
If you agree then I would like to watch those videos you mentioned first. And I want to be able to give my viewpoint and whatever data I find without condemnation.
My first Question about the DNA would be that from what I understand the world has been habitated long before the Christians claimed. During these times humanity has been wiped out of existance several times but supposedly always a remnent survived. How would that affect the DNA example they use as the first Adam and Eve? what if they were not the only Adam and Eves.
I am not convinced that there was only one Adam and Eve.
I would like to know How many DNA samples connect the Chineese,Japanese, Europeans etc.... as One originator? What are these test consisted of? Cause I am not convinced we are all from one Adam and One Eve. If anything I might tend to Believe all those different Types of Humans were all genetically linked to a DNA prototype but were genetically altered, And thats why they connect to a one source Adam and Eve.I would believe this first.
I do not have the enough time in the world to study every single thing on earth to have data so I can make a commentfrom my viewpoint. So I hope you do work with me on this.
And Thanks for the truce and tone.
@connie
Substantially more information that round :D
Ok, DNA can be traced back to a scientific Adam and Eve, not saying we stemmed from only 2 humans, but that their genetic lines are the only 2 identified survivors from ancient times.
The Docs "Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey" and "The Human Family Tree" are excellent examples, I particularly enjoyed 'The human family tree'. This by no means is an account of the evolution of man, but makes reference to evolutions roles in mans spread around the globe. There has been a couple docs on here that have made reference to DNA evidence linking us to everything on the planet. Even plants share a small portion of DNA with us. I think one of them was actually the documentary 'Why do viruses kill' which also makes reference to evolutionary branches which include mammalian creatures'.
I don't claim that god doesn't exist, that hasn't been proven. Nor do I believe that science and religion are mutually exclusive. Einstein was religious, and if you watch 'fundamental falsehoods of creation', also on Top Docs, the narrator mentions a few stalwart believers in God that are also renowned scientists in one field or another.
You harmed no bubbles of mine.
As you requested, my definition of 'we' is to include the majority of regular posters on this site, including myself.
I did spot my error in 'you say' shortly after posting but was unable to correct it, sorry for that.
may I correct myself now. You indicate a disbelief in evolution. State your argument for creation... you did of course.
So, I did Google 'darwin confession' and found;
- 'The story of Darwin's rebuttal did not start until about one generation later. His former nurse, Lady Hope, was able to join the lecture circuit with this claim, but without tangible evidence either way. Whether Darwin ended up believing in the theory of evolution or not, the damage has been done in his name. And ... if he did recant, on his death bed, they say, then he did not actually make any efforts to make his confession public.'
There was also mention on a couple other sites from the same search of letters to some of his colleagues and close friends stating his doubts.
Either way, we have seen so much evidence that has been scrutinized and reviewed since then that has done nothing but reinforce the theory.
Now the nitpicking...
"You are speculating without documentation when you made the claim …:You said:
“As you enjoy coming here looking for something that blasts our theories out of the water, we keep hoping some of you will be enlightened to the physical world around you.”"
I will refer you to post 61 second paragraph
Because Atrophy your reality is not the same as mine. WHen I see such a Title I exspect to watch a Doc that laughs at the idea of evolution I figure sooner or later you guys will get it. I exspect anytime for the lies to be blown away.
Anyway, lets put the bickering to rest and drive toward some honest thought provoking conversation. I do not enjoy bickering, that's not to say I don't enjoy a good argument tho :D
@ Atrophy, please define your term "We" who is we? The bullys who verbally beat up other peoples points of view by slamming personal remarks.
You were not the only letter I received and yours is not as bad as the one from "Virgin School"Doc. in case you hadn't seen go look at yesterdays comments.
I might be a bit harsh with you because I am speaking in general of the misconduct by bullys who are behaving out of line when someone makes a contraire comment.
Reguarding the business of documentating comments? Where in earth is that coming from? When one comments on a Doc. are you saying that one must show proof and validity of their thoughts and opinions? Isn't a comment a thought ? Or is this a hidden rule in to a secret club here? WHy do thoughts have to be Documented anyway?
What on earth is wrong with people?where is minding their own business and live and let live. Why can't everyone make their own comment without comdemnation and sentenced to a verbal beating and bashing.Why is someones opinion on a Doc.a License for others to behave so badly and inappropriately ? And they call themselves intelligent?
The opinion and comments are directed at the Doc's documenter and people in the film not to strangers who are not even being addressed.
Now someone with Spirtual background.... Is supposed to Document things of the Spirit? Yeah right ! is that the way the Bullies abuse other people?
Oh,but its Ok for the Bullies to speculate and hypothasize without Documentation Right?
Some people need to stop worrying what other people think and just start behaving like civil beings.
If the scientific view is supposedly more advanced then why are they acting like animals and scraping and fighting?
Do you see the religees jumping like animals and ganging up on others on a personal level and name calling and demanding others to Document all their sources?
And who on earth said this was for the professionals only? Does everyone who screams and bullies have a PhD or better to be staking such high Knowledgable information as fact and if anyone disagrees then they are burned at the stake and publically degraded?
Why this behavior is no better than what you say you are against. The Papal would do the same..... Believe what they tell you or else we will crucify you!....
I am not here to satisfy your thirst for abuse or anyone elses.
As far as Darwin and many others you will have to google it! Its all over the internet about Scientist who do Not believe in evolution. In of which makes the bullys not portray all the truth. Because NOt all scientists believe in Evolution.
Evolution is a "Theory" Even if some say the evolution Theory is not a Theory, yeah whats that? lol.
Just google Evolution confessions or Darwin Confession... its nuts out there who says he says she says while so many bullies are papeling and crucifying the religees and non conformers to their way of thinking.
All evolution is to me and many others is another religion.
Hey Got any DNA evidence yet? Thats something I would like to see.. And even then I would look closely at the testing.
But even if you convinced me, I hope that I would not abuse others or act like some Papel.
I am human and get my bad moods and moments and I misbehave too and sometimes not so very nice when I am guilty of taking out my frustrations using this Doc comments as a tool Like no one can see me. LOl but at least I direct it to the documentarie where they make a living of getting peoples comments. And so are expected to please some and not all.
But to be a memeber of the same club and watching Doc;s together is like Family and then to see one another be brutally attacked for speaking their opinions is dead wrong.
If brutality is enlightenment then I would rather be dumb.
Too bad Science could not be used to to evolve people into being more civil rather then diverting to barbaric social standards.
You are speculating without documentation when you made the claim ...:You said:
"As you enjoy coming here looking for something that blasts our theories out of the water, we keep hoping some of you will be enlightened to the physical world around you."
In turn where is your proof to stake that claim as factual?
You are dead wrong!
I came here because I wanted to watch Docs. That interested me in many areas. When I watch Science Doc,s I watch because I too like Science as many others do too. Even religeees love Science too, not just you.
Just because they do not agree with everything or buy into every thing you do does not make them any less unworthy to search science then any God Fearing Scientist. Oh yeah ! are you surprised they exist? Well wake up to the enlightenment cause they do exist. Perhaps some of the Anti religees and Evolutionalist followers were blinded and numbed to the facts.
Does it hurt? So sorry. I had to be the one to burst some bubbles.
We often provide evidence to support or reject views.
I see very little from religious comments.
You say we did not evolve from monkeys. PROVE IT.
you disagree with "Phallus artwork" tell us why and how it has no relevance. AND PROVIDE PROOF.
you say you have seen documents saying Darwin lied, PROVIDE LINKS.
Once they pass moderation most of us will certainly look. if for nothing else a good laugh.
As you enjoy coming here looking for something that blasts our theories out of the water, we keep hoping some of you will be enlightened to the physical world around you.
I see this same damn argument all over this site.
Thats it!... No more mister nice guy! The way that I see it, "Atheist" minds are more "Mature" then the minds of religious people.
There is something about religee's that remind me of children, almost child-like in there thinking and behaviour. It took a long time for atheists to come out of the closest, but since the ceasing of burning at the stake for heresy by the religious majority. we atheists have come into the fold. Science now "runs" the world.
To me the minds of religious people just have not progressed per. "EVOLUTION"
They still have minds that are heuristic of tree dwellers.
@ Atrophy,
Atrophy57 Simply put, If you don’t want to watch or read about “monkey business” or “phallus artwork” then don’t watch science docs, especially ones titled and covered so obvious as “did cooking make us human” with a monkey eating a cooked dinner. (
Connie :) Because Atrophy your reality is not the same as mine. WHen I see such a Title I exspect to watch a Doc that laughs at the idea of evolution I figure sooner or later you guys will get it. I exspect anytime for the lies to be blown away .And you do not have to be a religee to understand this.
ATrophy Wrote:) Honestly, what do you guys expect ? Science isn’t gonna tuck tail and ignore millions of years of evidence we have unearthed ourselves. Monkey business is a big topic because the evidence says we were once monkeys, (and we still are a species of great ape), like it or not.
Connie says:) Where are the Docs to support what I have read on the Net. Has no one even heard that Darwin had admitted he lied and used false bones and others too that supported The Evolution Theory?
Are there really that many people who ignore all the written Documents written by man not apes?
@connie
I was returning your words at you, I apologize for being so crude about it. Nobody here is ‘forcing’ anything on you. If you don’t like it, move on, If you wish to provide input, expect to be singled out in ‘peer review’. We agree or disagree because…
Connies says:) lets look at this right here! You are saying that you can make any comment you want to.
But you are saying that If I give my comment and if it does not agree with yours then It is fair game to Verbally attack and ridicule me personally? Would the shoe be on the other foot I'd like to know.?So does this give me and any other who do not believe in Monkey business the right to ridicule and personally attack those who believe and evolution?
What does it take to get it through some peoples heads that just because we dont all except evolution or anyparticular thing that we cannot watch science Docs.
That is so biased !
So if
Atrophy says: we remain ever willing to provide our views and input whether you like them or not.
Connie says: Oh and so therefore i would assume you are saying you evolutionist cannot follow your own rules? You can dish it out but can't take it?
Atrophy says:You will find opinions reinforced, corrected or utterly denied even among our own ‘science minded’ peers but we remain willing to accept change and new ideas as part and parcel of discovery, progress and personal growth.
Connie says:Obviously this is a false statement because if anyone makes a comment that disagrees with some select ideas then they are subjected to ridicule and treated as a minority.My statement does not apply to you alone.
What I would like to know is why on any subject is anyone allowed to belittle or subject others personally for any comment that is made on any of these Docs.
If someone comments yeah or nay why are they at risk of personal attack? what childnesh would support such behavior?
TDK does not advertise that they are a biased and only certain people are welcomed to this site there is plenty of variety here to support anyones views. Why are certain people attacked for commenting on certain subjects from certain points of view.. If this is so then should there not be advertisement that warns people they are not welcomed without being subjected to ridicule? NOw doesnt that sound real intelligent for you supposed select scientist with evolutionist views? Even some of you would have to agree yes the Ape would be smarter in this case .
Fat people are not all fat because they eat so much more than the rest of us (often, like most things in life, its a combination of factors) but because their metabolisms are much slower. And that is another gift of evolution. A gift that probably saved many groups of humans through our ancient history..Throughout we have has often existed in extreme deprivation and it was people with the slowest metabolisms who survived through the famines and droughts better than the rest of us.
That said, a can of coke does have 26 grams of sugar. (see much is in a glass of OJ) Our bodies convert all food into glucose (a type of sugar) that is then released into the bloodstream or can be stored for later use. So our drive for it (sugar, starch, fat) is no great mystery..and no different than (all? -I dont know), but certainly many other animals and insects.
the doc pic really rubs me the wrong way. dont know why just freaks me out
Superficial, and only pretending to be scientific and logical. Even though amusing.
"We know australopitecus was our ancestor because he walked upright." No shit. I walk upright, does that mean Im your ancestor?
Another, bigger, fail: "even though our test subjects enjoyed the loss of weight, it seems eating a raw food only diet would starve people to death." A conclusion as stupid as it can be. I mean, cmon, in this year and age, they are making a documentary about food and evolution, and they never heard of raw food diet? Wtf people..
Simply put, If you don't want to watch or read about "monkey business" or "phallus artwork" then don't watch science docs, especially ones titled and covered so obvious as "did cooking make us human" with a monkey eating a cooked dinner. Honestly, what do you guys expect ? Science isn't gonna tuck tail and ignore millions of years of evidence we have unearthed ourselves. Monkey business is a big topic because the evidence says we were once monkeys, (and we still are a species of great ape), like it or not.
@connie
I was returning your words at you, I apologize for being so crude about it. Nobody here is 'forcing' anything on you. If you don't like it, move on, If you wish to provide input, expect to be singled out in 'peer review'. We agree or disagree because...
we remain ever willing to provide our views and input whether you like them or not. You will find opinions reinforced, corrected or utterly denied even among our own 'science minded' peers but we remain willing to accept change and new ideas as part and parcel of discovery, progress and personal growth.
Religious folks have to have a good laugh every now and then. No better fool to laugh at, than one that would believe that he had come from a monkey. I wish there was a return policy for the evolutionist crowd. Maybe God has a sense of humor and will make them monkeys in their second life.
Why do the religees watch these docs? There is a religion category you know. Charles seems to be like someone who doesn't like the sight of blood watching a gory movie. Weird.
In a hunter/gatherer setting eating meat is pretty essential. The relative high calorie diet needed to sustain our bodies would be very difficult off of only vegetation we could find. But something amazing happened that we call the agricultural revolution and that allowed us to grow our food instead of looking for it. Meat is not essential to our diet now because we have the ability to just eat MORE fruits, grains, ect. and maintain the needed calories. *IMPORTANT* Not saying that eating meat is wrong, just that it is not essential anymore, you can just eat more.
Cooking does break down food, makes it easier to digest and in turn you get more sugars, calories, ect. (As this film makes a very good point of) It does also destroy *some* nutrients. We can still survive off of a raw diet, again you just need to eat more. There are pros and cons to any diet, (a raw vegan diet will give you more nutrients and less calories) in my personal opinion your diet should be balanced and suit your personal needs. Raw food is very good for you but a cooked steak will sustain you for a longer time.
@ Atrophy,
You said: "@Connie
I can’t stand the “God business” that repetitively pollutes the comments of these scientific documentaries being pushed down my throat and telling me I’m doomed to a short life and an eternity of punishment for thinking otherwise.
Connie Replys:Firstly , Find one place where I ever mentioned the typical religions of Dooms day and Hell fire and then where I pushed it down anyones throat.
secondly, where does it ever say in the TDK listing that this is a website for only the Scientific world I see no such adversement.I see nothing that says anyone who mentions God is not welcomed here.
Thirdly, You nor anyone here really knows what kinda religion I believe in if any at all... For there is no catagory and any typical religion woould surely brand me a witch.
So bark up another tree cause I aint your dogwood !
“There isn’t even a need except to warp the brains of some who dare to repute its substainability.”
It's interesting to see our diet today compared to thousands of years ago. Thank you for sharing the video.
Science requires facts. Religion requires faith. Once you have the facts, faith is no longer required. If you have faith, the facts become irrelevant. It's no wonder science and religion keep butting heads.
@Connie
I can't stand the "God business" that repetitively pollutes the comments of these scientific documentaries being pushed down my throat and telling me I'm doomed to a short life and an eternity of punishment for thinking otherwise.
"There isn’t even a need except to warp the brains of some who dare to repute its substainability."
@ Charles,
Way to go :-) I can't stand The " Monkey Businees" being pushed down my throat either.
One might not notice unless they do not agree that in several of these Docs. Monkey business is mentioned over and over and over, which is sickening to those who do not support the phallus artwork of some Dogma painting created by a Phallus minded , butt sniffing mental dwarf frankenstein.
There isn't even a need except to warp the brains of some who dare to repute its substainability.
@ charles b
there is no need to push evolution, it is a simple truth all around us that takes loads of brain frackery not to see. we all witness evolution in action in everything from fraternity tests to agriculture. now the idea that some immaterial being spoke the world into existence, has omniscience and omnipotence, but yet blames and tortures its creations for eternity simply for using the minds he created, that is something no amount of documentaries and bible sessions can rationalize.
c'mon.. i know you've got to be getting tired of reality bustin' up your sky ghost mythologies. i can't believe you seriously consider such make believe fantasies to have any potential as scientific documentaries. there is no hypothesis or theory involved, simply stories.. like harry potter & the lord of the rings, but much less interesting and concise.
Well, in Eden, everything was perfect. Our physical state now was not what it was then. Our food sources now are not wat it was then. Killing for food wasn't necessary then. Perposed Astralapithicus ancestery aside, people HAVE changed from Adam and Eve. The first recorded animal killing was by God Himself to make clothing for Adam and Eve. I'm sorry the animal had to be harmed for our sake, and from that time forward we've been harming God's perfect creation.
And yes, we are all "fallen" men, in that we have that nature until changed in the future. Not sure the dynamics then, but it will not be a return to Eden. Things will be different, but not quite the same as Eden, as both our knowledge and such will have changed at least.
Charles,
Forgot to add, if you eat meat, like your bible says, after the fall? are you then a fallen man? Or were you allowed to eat raw meat before the fall, like a carnivore?
@Charles B:
What did you expect when you watch science docs, evolution is science, no? Evolution and science go hand in hand, concerning religious docs, myself would rather watch a good fairy story.
Was cooking needed in your garden of Eden? I suspect it was, otherwise you would be eating nothing but raw food, right Charles? do you eat nothing but raw food? No meat? No you don't, right there you are going against the teachings of your bible, so that blows your garden of eden theory out of the water! Killing animals tsk, tsk. for shame!
@Achems is right.
@Charles, what did you expect from the documentary? It seems you're deliberately feeding yourself with science docs.
I feel you have doubt in God. You sit on two chairs. Accepting almost everything science taught you in your life and still condemning some parts of it, because those are the parts which shake your faith the most.
When you hear them, they irritate you... you have a feeling of frustration deep down. You think... who the heck are these guys to shake my foundations.
And your foundations are sound and safe. Like in a fairytale. Cocooned in a state where you pass your responsibilities to a deity.
Sooo... do yourself a favor. If a science doc pops up in front of you, don't watch it and you'll be fine.
But wait... you have to implement this in your everyday life.
When you meet an "unbeliever", don't talk with him.
When you watch a movie and there is scientific stuff in it, switch the channel.
When you open your lap-top, think... the guys who made the lap-top are the same guys who are "preaching" evolution. Shut it down.
When you use your microwave... again those filthy b*stards... are trying to convert you.
God damn it... All things around you are made by people who think there is no God. You body is plugged in an artificial system made by "unbelievers". Run... run away from the poison around you.
Think about it...
Razor: We've watched some docs here that had some adult-centered themes, but my wife and I have decieded to be more selective when our son started taking too much notice.
To be frank, I just hate evolution polotion solution for the whole time on science docs. They don't just do five minutes or less, and then stop, but the whole time, relentlessly, over and over again for two hours. And they call Christians dogmatic. This doc wasn't precisely what I had in mind. Besides, this video lagged really badly on my computer, prolonging the agony of the evolutionary trash even more.
If I was a multi-billionaire, I'd like to make science documentaries that gave the other possibility: "Was cooking needed in the Garden of Eden?" I suspect it was needed after "the Fall" only. Now, that sounds like something worth watching!
Prinston: Not so found of your comments either. Aren't cha glad not all the world evo-pushers!
Peace to all.
The close up mastication was just utterly gross. Didn't enjoy this Documentary too much but it was quite interesting listening to the mindset upheld throughout this Documentary.
@ atrophy
well said.. i agree with that perspective on diet and u're right.. the proportions make all the difference.. as I stated before.. i still eat meat myself, but sparingly.. by that same token i also understand the benefits of vegan-ism and feel the difference when i eat just plant products and then revert to eating meat. although anecdotal, the results of the simply raw diabetes experiment say a lot about the health benefits of vegan-ism.
also it maybe that my wife is just good at making me feel bad for the animals that get tortured in the way meat is produced these days. it's like that making the connection doc was saying.. its not so much that meat in itself is a problem, but the way we produce it and the rate at which we consume is problematic.
I'm relieved you folks took the off-ramp from the religion vs.Evil Empirical highway.A long boring road trip with no actual destination..Until we croak,of course,then we'll SEE who laughs last!..If at all..heh heh
Nice documentary.
It showed interesting experiments and added a bit to knowledge I already had.
@princeton
Sorry, I skimmed and didn't catch the whole post.
I'm glad you accepted cooking but meat eating is staple to our current diets. While you can get by and live a healthy life on vegetarian or vegan diets, as demonstrated by the numerous people surviving and excelling, it requires more effort.
The portion is the poison in modern society, most folks enjoy huge, high energy meals then work a desk job or something similar. No matter what your diet is, (vegan, vegetarian or omnivorous), variety, moderation and activity is key to remaining healthy.
@princeton
Again... The ability of a human to properly break down a plant based diet is inferior. Even our cousins the apes and chimps spend MOST of their time chewing (as stated in the doc) and even they supplement with animal and insect protein. Whats the difference, what elevated us from hunting and gathering apes? we cook our food, giving us a quantum leap in spare energy, increased variety in our diets (things that wouldn't be edible without cooking) and a lot of free time to socialize and figure out what to do with our bigger brains and abundance of energy. In my opinion it supports not only physical evolution but social and technological. After that comes agriculture and animal husbandry.
@coyote03
actually I'm not so sure that its clearly demonstrated as inferior by evolution. the thing of importance here is inferior pertaining to which purpose..
i am quite certain that a vegan diet is healthier and promotes a longer lifespan. eating meat was something that evolved before agriculture as far as i understand. the evolutionary process's purpose was not to get us to live longer, but just long enough to procreate & possibly get bulkier and fatter to survive famines. calories are not something that we have a problem with in our modern society, vegan or not and at this point our goal i assume is longevity.
evolution is the reason why our taste buds are drawn to sweets and certain flavors, but if we were to follow those urges presently where everything is so abundant, we would be sick with diabetes and all other ailments associated with excessive sugar consumption.
i do agree though on the cooking thing after some looking into, it looks as if cooking certain foods sometimes releases more nutrients than simply eating them raw.
eating meat, especially the way it is commonly produced, i am sure is not as healthy as well balanced vegan-ism (not that hard to achieve either and we ain't rich)
@ charles b
LMAO.. I see u're still goin' strong with tha sky ghost worshipin'.
can you please at least stop littering science doc posts with that big0ted n0nsense.. irrati0nal "we're special" hooplah with a side of "god did it" and a 32 oz "you're all gonna burn forever" LMAO..
don't you get tired of reality constantly beating down on your fairy tales.. oh yea.. i guess you get ur "healthy" dose of make believe every sunday..
good for you!
@Charles B:
Do you also cover up piano legs etc: its funny, you think this sounds like p*orn.
But you will watch penis, vagina, and other sex docs here on TDF.
Or is it just because the doc. mentions "evilution" Charles, you know that religee's should not tell untruths, now don't you? So funny!
Haha.. PETA.....
Ok after 5 minutes I had to stop, The doc had potential but all the close ups of people slurping up food watching them chew it, stuff like pineapple and what not really turned me off. Why bother including all that, its not necessary. As well the girls voice is insanely annoying..
Not impressed. Utterlly not worth watching! "Homo Erectus" sounds like a porn video you should be very embarrased to have found on your computer.
To answer the question, "Did cooking make us human?" How stupid! God made us human and then GAVE US a brain big enough to figure out how to cook.
From WebMD "Diets that include animal products are generally nutritionally complete. Vegans, on the other hand, often fall short of meeting requirements for vitamin B-12, calcium, vitamin D, zinc, and iron. The good news is that many of these nutrients are added to modern day food products. You just need to read the labels to find veggie products that have been fortified with added nutrients.
Also, taking a daily vitamin mineral supplement that provides complete amounts of the above nutrients is another way to ensure adequate nutrition. And getting plenty of sunshine is one way to satisfy the body's requirement for vitamin D.
If you adopt a vegan diet, you also need to understand the concept of complementary proteins. Animal protein is complete, meaning it contains all the amino acids essential to a healthy diet. Plant foods contain plenty of protein, but their amino acids are incomplete. So to make sure you're getting complete protein, eat different plant foods in combination -- for example, by having beans along with your rice. Vegans need to pay close attention to their diets to make sure they are nutritionally adequate."
It is easier to get the nutrients out of cooked foods. The complete proteins in meat allow one to eat a smaller amount of food and have more energy; the less energy expenditure in digestion the better. All in all, a vegan diet can be sustained if one diversifies greatly and spends a large amount of time both calculating what nutrients they are low on/ need and buying those many different items. It does not seem like a logical lifestyle for those who are poor and need to spend most of their time working, not leisurely strolling down the health food aisle as we do in the Western world.
My main issue is really this, are we going vegan/vegetarian because it's actually healthier? or because we don't want to kill animals? Personally, I have no problem killing animals, thus, I see no point in reverting to a diet that is clearly (demonstrated by evolution) inferior.
Its late and I ramble, sorry haha
@princeton
Yeah, I mean by 'natural world' as in without our technology and supply lines for a period of time such as could easily happen in a natural disaster or a massive energy shortage and way up in the middle to northern reaches of Canada where I live where it snows 6 months of the year in most places. (or, god forbid, a zombie attack :P)
No worries, I can take it.
@ waldo
oh and BTW.. hope all goes well with your teeth... my wife just recently had something similar done to hers.. lol, funny it took them almost an hour to get her to calm down for the numbin.. she very scared of needles..
good luck..
@ atrophy
i couldnt resist but umm...
"In a natural world I don’t believe it to be a viable diet"
what? we live in an unnatural world? where? when? how?
sorry, but it's a pet peeve of mine, i must do this every-time i hear us humans are doing something unnatural as if we are apparitions that just materialized from some mysterious dimension.. nothing we do is unnatural lol..
I apologize again.. cheap shot.. i know what u mean though.. lol.. but really. it cant technically be unnatural
MUWAHAHAHA...
@ waldo
"But what makes us think we have the right to live without feeding on other life?"
well technically, eating a vegan diet is still feeding on other life, but simply refusing to harm/kill sentient animals for food/energy which can be gained through other means. don't get me wrong, I agree with a lot of what you posted, and i still eat meat myself, but i understand the vegan perspective and look at it as a possible step in the evolution of mankind. meat helped us develop the brains to make stuff & grants us the ability to be more empathetic and now we have the choice to remove ourselves from the process of torturing and killing sentient beings for energy. we have alternatives which can sustain us comfortably, so why chose to live as if we were still in caves.
on the digestion issue.. a lot of vegans do good with fruit & veggie (ew) juices and most do not go on a completely raw diet but cook sometimes. the fact is that it is being done all over the place and I do not see such vegans lacking in energy or pleasure in their diets.. and the fact that those starving in third world countries do not make those choices is a red herring. their problem is that corrupt governments keep them down and constantly brutalize them. once we as a species can solve this problem.. which is the goal i assume.. then they will also become more aware and conscious of the fact that torturing and killing animals for energy is not necessary.. to look at the world and say "oh if we were back in caves then we wouldn't be so picky" is a little off topic and simply a distraction from the real issue in my opinion. the same can be said for almost any field of advancement and development.
@ will have to try this one when I have a strong stomach to watch the gross eating and then I must be in the mood to tolerate the Monkey business of evolution.
Good doc, but cooking by "microwave" is far different than cooking by fire.
Modern food more energy? seems like most everything, prepared food, fast food, breads, pastries, has high fructose corn syrup, the scourge of mankind. That is why most nations are nations of blimps! More weight, sickness, diabetes, etc:
Ever notice carrot and corn in the crapper after a wonderful holiday meal ? That's cause, even cooked, some cant be broken, especially the husk of a corn kernel If its not ground up good by your teeth it wont break down.
@ james
Hear, hear... well said, mate. Yes they do retain all those wonderful nutrients, the only problem is according to science, and I would say a little common sense, our digestive system cannot access them, there or not. Nor can it get all the wonderful sugars and fats that may be available but locked up inside the tough cellular body of the vegetable. In short we lose some nutrients but still gain more from cooked foods, as proved in this documentary.
Everyone must agree that uncooked vegetables nuts,fruit preserve their whole nutritional value.infinitely better for you.Hell,look at Jack Lalane.Since we enjoy the luxury of choosing (or REFUSING)what to eat,we've become quite picky.But to suggest the absurd notion that the raw vegan diet, disregarding the art of cuisine,the defining flashpoint between man and beast and one of the glories of human sophistication..To suggest I'd be better off embracing this primitive pre-fire-hominid -lifestyle is naiive.The line between eating well and feeding defines where we stand in human development..and a world without crispy fried trout with foamy hot butter and almonds,garlicky herbacious rack of lamb,grilled asparagus,cinnamon rolls or apple strudel?..A sad,sorry,pathetic wasteland littered with carrot sticks that would be... WHEW! OK, I'm done.
@ Charles B.
Thanks for your concern Charles, I am some what better. They have finally decided that the tooth must come out. They have yet to take it out as they wanted me to kill all infection befor they do so. I am going in tommorrow to have it cut out possibly. The actuall tooth under the temporary cap is broken below the gum line so they say they may have to cut it out if they can not get a hold on it and pull it out. Its very decent of you to be concerned for someone you don't even know, thanks again.
@ Atrophy
I agree, without the supplements, cooking, and fortified foods our current evolutionary form would not be able to survive on a vegan or vegetarian diet. Its only after we became pampered that we were concerned with such things any way. In our natural state we saw edible food and we ate it, animal or vegetable. I guarantee you if you go to an area were people are not pampered, like we in the developed west are, you will find no one choosing to eat only this or that, no one with lactose intolerance or eating disorders. Sometimes I get sick of the whole thing, we are such a bunch of whiny elitists in many ways. I am guilty of it as well, I am not claiming otherwise. But what makes us think we have the right to live without feeding on other life? It is the natural order of things, life feeds on life, and we have no right to try and place our delicate sensibilities above it.
There's still the issue of efficiently chewing and digesting the raw plant material. Our complete digestive system from teeth to sphincter and all the stops and bacteria in between have adapted to an omnivorous, cooked diet which is why the zoo experiment didn't work.
Vegans and vegetarians can get by because they do actually cook and they have, literally, a world of choice at the local supermarket, supplemental vitamins and fortified foods.
In a natural world I don't believe it to be a viable diet.
I liked that the first humans to cook meat also used a microwave. In three separate bits of information heared within two weeks I learned
1) Book: microwaving destroys vitamins (meantioned nothing about starches)
2) On a TV commercial for the Cooking Channel the chef stated when heating a bottle of formula for your baby to heat the water but not the formula in a micro because it destroys the nutriants in the formula
3) The Russian government hasen't allowed microwaves into their country due to the effects it has on the food (unknown source)
Try this experiment. Using two similar plants water one with tap water and the other with water heated in the microwave and then cooled. You could also try a third plant using cooled boiled water to see if that has any effect.
The one watered with micro water won't do very well.
I currently only use the micro for popcorn as I don't have a good oil popper. The air poppers I have require too much melted butter for the parmesan cheese to stick to it.
Waldo: I guess you feel better. How's your tooth? I was worried about that.
princeton is right on.
it's a myth perpetrated by the huge, wealthy, and powerful meat & dairy industries that vegetables have toxins and are somehow more risky than meat and dairy.
it's the other way around.
70% of chickens in supermarkets are infected with salmonella. that's why chicken and other meat must be cooked to 160F or higher. fruits don't have that issue. the vegetable contamination like spinach you heard in the news comes because of contact with animal feces, often in the manure. vegetables themselves dont contain harmful bacteria and viruses. it's the meat products that are much more risky.
@ atrophy
well fruits, veggies & nuts do not contain toxins and lots of bacteria as far as i understand.
animal products are the ones that need to be cooked for that reason, but i could be wrong, i'm no expert.
@farren
you do bring up a good point.
I also thought the same and had an uneasy feeling when watching the 2 week raw fruit & veggie experiment. my wife is all the way vegan and has no problems with health and energy. i am trynna get there also but my addiction to meat is strong & i also just quit smokin so.. all in due time.
I also know and know of many other vegans who have no problem with energy. you guys should check out the doc "simply raw: reversing diabetes in 30 days". in that film, several individuals with type 1 & 2 diabetes were cured and got off insulin dependency just by eating raw organic foods (at least those who stuck with the program and didn't quit).
@Farren
What is the right way to masticate and digest raw fruits and vegetables after 2 million years of eating meat ?
It would have to be dropped in a blender and pureed.
Something they failed to mention is that cooking also destroys a large quantity of the bacteria and toxins in the food. It not only allows us to expand our diets, but it improves overall health.
@Imightberiding
'Oops, very sorry for the duplicate comment'
I always double check after hitting refresh, my posts almost never show up after hitting the 'add comment ' button.
Anyhow. Those mice they fed the cooked food. I wonder what would happen after several generations of being fed nothing but cooked food. Would be interesting to track the biological changes over their short generations and determine if similar effects occur.
Chuck,
I appreciate your friendly comment.
Your comment has truth to it--of course cooking doesn't destroy all nutrients. But it does destroy phytonutrients. These are found in fresh organic fruits, vegetables, and sprouted nuts and seeds.
Your comment seems to ignore the fact that:
"but according to much research, cooked food has less nutritional value than raw food. raw food people (who do it right) have exceptional amounts of energy, sickness avoidance and recovery, look much better as they age, and feel happier
a raw food diet done right heals cancer, diabetes, arthritis, and so many other diseases. cooked food has lost its vital life force and phytonutrients."
that information is truth. if cooking takes away these benefits, it's not better than raw food.
Oh, Farren. Some nutrients are lost, not all nutrients and some nutrients aren't released until food is cooked. The name of the game here is calories, and calories are what got us here. Watch Nanook of the North and you'll see what I mean.
I do agree that most people overcook everything, but there is room for middle ground here. Breakfast at the old logging camps here, before the days of chainsaws, were three to five thousand calories and that was breakfast! Those men weren't fat though!
Loved it! This explains a lot. I kept having an old Devo song going through my head though, probably from reading the rants of the vegans the other day. That's an experiment they can continue and just maybe they will de-evolve, from a diet that we had thousands, if not millions of years ago. Maybe they are right. Maybe we've gone to far and need to go back. Maybe the answer is cannibalism. Maybe I think too much. At the very least, I hope I make you laugh and I hope those who haven't watched this yet will get a laugh as I did! Plus, Brits were perfect for this. We Yanks get a hoot from the contrast of the sophisticated accent next to two handed meat eating. Thanks Vlatko, I'm still smiling
haven't watched this (yet) but interesting question. it's a loaded question they pose...so that in some way, cooking must be related to our intelligence
but according to much research, cooked food has less nutritional value than raw food. raw food people (who do it right) have exceptional amounts of energy, sickness avoidance and recovery, look much better as they age, and feel happier
a raw food diet done right heals cancer, diabetes, arthritis, and so many other diseases. cooked food has lost its vital life force and phytonutrients. you hear about the common vitamins and minerals (A, B, C, D, E, K, iron, magnesium, etc.) but you hardly hear of phytonutrients. phytonutrients are key to healing and maintaining higher levels of health than are common, and they are destroyed by high heat (over about 120 degrees F)
Oops, very sorry for the duplicate comment. I thought it was lost while posting it. Thanks again for another entertaining doc Vlatko. I have evolved to the point of eating cooked food. Now if only my computer skills could evolve to the level of minimal competence.
A very facinating documentary both about evolution due to diet and how that diet is prepared. The close ups of people eating are a bit disgusting and so are the clips of people eating half raw meat with their hands like some kind of animals, but all in all it is worth it. A solid eight on a scale of one to ten.
I think they will eventually discover definite proof that our ancestors were cooking in the cave they explored, they already have very conviencing circumstantial evidence. The fact that those people that tried to eat a raw vegetable only diet simply could not eat enough to meet their required energy standards is very telling, go meat!! Of course I am only joking in a sense, I realize a proper diet would be mixed between cereals, fruits, vegatables, dairy, and meat. In my opinion eating a strictly vegetable diet is just as unhealthy as eating a meat only diet. Why is it we humans always want to go to extremes and take the balance out of everything?
This doc asks the question: "Do we cook because we're clever & imaginative, or are we clever & imaginative because our ancestors discovered cooking?"
I prefer the more pointed question: "Do we cook because we're clever & imaginative, or are we clever & imaginative because we can make a phone call, have someone else cook for us & in less than 30 minutes have our food delivered to our doorstep?"
Thanks for another fun one Vlatko.
The doc asks the question: "Do we cook because we're clever & imaginative, or are we clever & imaginative because our ancestors discovered cooking?"
I prefer the more pointed question: "Do we cook because we're clever & imaginative, or are we clever & imaginative because we can make a phone call & have someone else cook our food & in less than 30 minutes have it delivered to our doorstep?"
i really enjoyed this doc. food is awesome.
Close ups of people eating . . . NO GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!
good one