Did Cooking Make Us Human?

Did Cooking Make Us Human?

2010, Science  -   129 Comments
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Ratings: 7.00/10 from 16 users.

Did Cooking Make Us Human?We are the only species on earth that cooks its food - and we are also the cleverest species on the planet.

The question is: do we cook because we're clever and imaginative, or are we clever and imaginative because our ancestors discovered cooking?

Horizon examines the evidence that our ancestors' changing diet and their mastery of fire prompted anatomical and neurological changes that resulted in taking us out of the trees and into the kitchen.

Homo habilis was about a metre tall with long, swinging arms – not much to look at, apparently, but clever. Habilis had a bigger brain (50% bigger) than his forebear, Australopithecus. Was this down to his diet?

In Did Cooking Make Us Human?, a clutch of determined scientists set out to discover the extent to which diet played a role in the evolution of the human brain, using a variety of mildly alarming gadgets.

Professor Peter Ungar has a contraption he calls the Bitemaster 2, a mechanical chewing machine he has fitted out with genuine Australopithecine gnashers.

For the first time in three million years they were set to work on a carrot, with remarkable success, considering.

On raw meat they performed less ably, but teeth from a later human ancestor – smaller, sharper, "crestier" – made short work of it.

You certainly wouldn't want to get your finger caught in there, as Prof Ungar nearly does. "Wait!" he yells at his start-button-happy colleague.

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MD Nealy
MD Nealy
6 years ago

Despite the fact, we call ourselves humans we are mammals. We are just the most intelligent and resourceful animal. Having said that, humans are also responsible for the worse atrocities in history. Our fingers play a huge role in our ability to create but there are many examples of people overcoming disabilities which is due to our intelligence and desire.

Having said all of that diet is extremely important to our health and well being. Eating more vegetables and fruit would improve the health of many people in the world. Raw is even better. However, it takes doing a little research to ensure you are eating a balanced diet for our nutritional needs.

anny
anny
10 years ago

This vid is like an ad for the meat/food industry. There are sooo many
WRONG and unsatisfying statements here its incredible. 11:28 "we THINK ate
meat", "scientist speculate", "researchers think",
"one theory", 23:35 “may have been hunters”.There
are thousands of vegans that THRIVE and NOT only survive on a raw vegan (no
animal based foods) diet. 1 of the arguments was that it takes to much time to
eat and still? do not feel satisfied
(they didnt fed the people any calorie dense veg, fruit or nuts) but they also
realised how long it took the bushmen to "hunt" their meat with a
modern day SHOVEL tho.They celebrated the find. so it must be a very rare treat.
means this people do survive on a plant based diet. to eat a potato raw? is like it eating rice raw. what kinda study is
that?Why didnt they take a food like spinach which is full of enzymes that help
the digestion immensely. in fact 1 of the reasons people have digestive issues
nowadays is because they dont consume enough raw enzymes! also eating a raw
diet will make u healthier because we are burning the micronutrients with
cooking, which we need for every activity in our body. yes there are some foods
that need to be cooked like potatoes!I cant believe they made a study where
they fed 1 snake? with a whole block of
meat and the other 1 minced meat and then said that the minced digested faster,
obviously! its like its been pre chewed! so our brain evolved cuz we started to
eat meat.what about chimpanzees that are eating meat? should their brain not be getting bigger then?what
about carnivores? they must be geniuses because their digestive tract is super
small compared to ours, so their brain should have evolved to super-size since
they take away much less energy!the cooking of most veg actually slows down the
digestion because the important nutrients that aid digestion are burned out.
Please check this things to yourself guys!If u really believe that animal based
food give u more energy, eat ONLY animal based food and try to work out!be
warned tho ;). there are 1000's of studies that proof how unhealthy an animal
based diet is. if you care for your health i would strongly recommend you to
read/ watch those studies. Dr. Esselstyn, Dr. T. Colin Campbell Phd, Dr. Doug
Graham, Dr. Neal Barnard. the china study is the most comprehensive study ever
made on nutrition.

AnnVdb
AnnVdb
11 years ago

I eat vegan except for the eggs of my own chickens:) I eat raw but lots of cooked aswell:) Full raw made me sick.

Jeremy Hughes
Jeremy Hughes
11 years ago

The healthiest people I've ever known were vegan, to me this documentary reeks of meat industry propaganda.

Steven Adams
Steven Adams
11 years ago

I Eat Vegan foods and eat it raw. If anything cooking/eating flesh made us less than human and more toward an animal in the psychological sense. We became nothing more that the social animal plagued by polarised emotions and duality.

Brandon Carlos Navarro
Brandon Carlos Navarro
12 years ago

Ever heard of a vegan diet! This video lies a lot. We cant live on fruits veggies and nuts alone Bull Sh%^! Yeah because today we live on nothing but calories and we don't get enough nutrition . This video want you to continue to eat your **** food thats going to give us caner in the long run.VIDEO IS ILLUMINATI! DOWN WITH FREEMASON DOWN WITH GM FOOD!

Victor Orsini
Victor Orsini
12 years ago

Cocking alone may have not made us human. But, we couldn't became humans without coking.

« - - -
« - - -
12 years ago

eating meat was a key change in human evolution but this documentary shows another aspect of evolution applied even to other species like mice and pythons as we saw.

Flippo15
Flippo15
12 years ago

yeah... but with cooking food they wouldn't need strong jaw muscles in the back of their skull so more room for brain

Glenn Howe
Glenn Howe
12 years ago

Woah.. as an earlier commentor said, this doc has a foregone conclusion. Even more disturbingly, it states wild speculation as fact. They claim unequivocally that our early ancestors didn't eat meat and that later meat inclusion in the diet was responsible for an increase in brain size. First of all, even chimpanzees often eat a very high percentage of meat in their diet. It is too bad when a supposedly scientific documentary follows the unscientific approach of fitting facts to a predetermined conclusion - and then puts it all down as unquestionably proven.

Aaron Seyer
Aaron Seyer
12 years ago

This doc is full of really gross, slow-motion close ups of people eating. You have been warned! Despite the interesting subject matter, I just couldn't watch all those nasty, gratuitous eating scenes. I had to turn it off after 15 minutes. It's a shame they had to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Xercès Des Stèles
Xercès Des Stèles
12 years ago

lol i hate watching people eat, gross.

James del Valle
James del Valle
13 years ago

I think the theory that we are human alien hybrids has more credibility, sounds nuts but sounds possible when you look at the evidence

Yelm Princess
Yelm Princess
13 years ago

I am a raw foodist. 8 years. I dont understand why that study said it wasnt possible. It is.

eugler
eugler
13 years ago

@Atrophy

Great stuff, next time don't try to resist :)

Connie
Connie
13 years ago

@ Atrophy & Achems

Atrophy Yes I think that is what I am saying. What I do know is I see jesus's teachings taught in a twisted view to another whole agenda.I do not see what he taught as meaning what they teach.
I see science and his teachings from a different context as one the same thing.
Jesus actually is teaching what science confirms.I see so much that I just keep connecting.

Did you see the fractals Doc that just came out? Even that has meaning to me.. God made us in his own image. Fractals are parts of a whole yet each is a whole of the part.
This is Sacred geometry that was already known and yet science is just catching on...... These are stuff of the Initiates practices and same stuff our modern religions condemned as sorcery and evil etc.....both in yesterday and today. This is the stuff that the Papal condemmed the scientist the Alchemist for studying and practicing. I could be so very wrong when I get to the end of my trail. but I know this: something is more to all this then we are taught and if it is against modern religions then I want to know about it.I want to know what it is that I see weaved in and out thru the teachings and understandings that I see.

You know there is something about duality that we must remember. There is one side of duality and then another side. But the most important part to remember is that those are the choices given and we need to hold onto the truth that Just cause their is a duality doesnt mean we have to choode either one. Because there is always a choice to choose neither. There is always a third choice. That choice is our own free will.That is the path I am on. Anyhow We are changing moving this conversation to …”the Primacy of consciousness” i might be behind our car broke down doing our paper route this weekend and things are a bit tough for us until we get caught up from its wake it left.
Thanks for keeping an open mind

Atrophy
Atrophy
13 years ago

@Connie
So you're supposing that Jesus was a smart man educating people with what passed for science at the time and the previous religion manipulated it to their own advantage ?
Not entirely impossible given religions continued efforts to infringe on standard education as well as book burning and 'witch hunts' by various powers over time.
Achems is quite correct, we have run severely off topic :D

Achems Razor
Achems Razor
13 years ago

@Connie:

Really do not know what to say, because my thoughts are there was no person as Jesus, just the latest in a long line of deities stemming from antiquity with the same characteristics. So my take on that would be moot.

What you could do is google... "Plato's allegory of the cave", How reality is not what it seems, and start from there.

I suggest that we pursue this venue on the doc..."the Primacy of consciousness" here on TDF where this discussion will be allowed.

Connie
Connie
13 years ago

@ Achems I wish you would keep an open mind to what I am saying cause I could use your brains in the science area to help me test out my thoughts here as I keep trying to figure this out. I am not talking about religion as commonly known. and I am not talking about the Bible as it is patched together.
What I mean is the first testament doesnt apply either cause it was the Jews teaching that Jesus was speaking against and trying to tell people the Kingdom of God is within you, That we ourselves possess our own free will.

He was saying that they did not have it right... and then because he drew such a crowd Constantine used him and made up a whole new version of Jesus that mixed a popourri of religious cults in a pot.

I think This guy Jesus was trying to open the lid off the can of worms the world was creating and he got used as a pawn for the wrong agenda. I believe what he was teaching was science and Alchemy etc....

But anyhow that is my own work to figure out.But I find it facinating to read the Bible and see things in this light and when I do a whole new story is unveiling.

The planes and heavens are dimensions. etc... I could never post all of it... Nor really want to. I dont want to convince anyone anything I just want to finish these thoughts to the end and see what develops.

I will read your links thanks.

Achems Razor
Achems Razor
13 years ago

@Connie:

They just came out of the stone age, quantum?? they thought that the world was still flat until galileo, this was the bronze age,

There will never be a marriage between science and religion! ever!
I am sorry to say this, but the only way humans can ever progress technology wise is to eliminate all religion. period.

Connie
Connie
13 years ago

@Achems , this is the closest I have been to describing what I have been trying to find conclusive evidence for. And I have not been able to spit out what I think.

That There was a Jesus who was teaching Quantum physics not religion and the Bible and religion was all part of the sun God worship for the mass control.
That this Jesus was used by False religious believers to use as control over masses ans still keep thier Sun God while they gained control and steered the christians on a false path by twisting the reality of Jesus.

I think it is so important for Christians and scientists to work together so the veil can be torn. The only veil I see is religion itself.

Thats all I was meaning to relate All along

Achems Razor
Achems Razor
13 years ago

@Connie:

There is nothing wrong with sharing viewpoints. That is what these blogs are about, you are superimposing science with spiritualism I suppose, and then adding religion in the mix to find a common ground. I think in effect you are saying everything comes from the mind. That I do not know, but some reputable scientists/physicists seem to think so. For there are parallels drawn to eastern religions and quantum physics,

See..."youtube-a conscious universe-the observer effect"

And..."youtube-the Copenhagen effect"

And no, was not describing "Genesis" in the bible. Or any invisible so called Gods. even though it may have seemed that way to you. (LOL)

Connie
Connie
13 years ago

@Achems For what ever its worth and not intending to suggest you are purposely suggesting to say this but, You are describing exactly The creation story/ Not the one religees as you call them would describe but instead from peoples who had their stories stolen and twisted for political purposes.

It is said that Ea. I believe ? Had a thought Then spoke the words and with his breath and word the original genesis story began.

Quantum physics are the same you think you act as though it is and then the transformation/creation comes.

To me and others Quantum Physics is the same as what the original genesis story describe. The stuff that coomes from a path of The Magi or Kabbalah path. However take note that many rivers are said to have come from the sea and not all river beds have water.

The real story of man and creation and being creators are science of today. Somewhat let us say Alchemists but still here there are some dry river beds leading to the seas.

The genisis Story Is about how Quantum physics works.The world religions have changed the interpretation of it for their own agenda.

I don't really have a mastery of the vast knowledge of it all so I probably could,not get too far into deep disscussion of it. But while I saw the opportunity to share a viewpoint That parallels what you said I wanted to just mention it.
Thanks...

Achems Razor
Achems Razor
13 years ago

@Hesus:

No one knows death of course, no one alive anyway, we can only envision it in the third person, never the first. Only envision death by seeing dead bodies etc:

Quantum theory is not a paradox, it is even more stranger than that! No words for it.

Everything comes from ideas first, than mathematical constructs, then theories, then proven facts. One step at a time.

But science being what it is, always in a state of flux. for new developments.

No one knows the answers! Maybe there is none.

Hesus
Hesus
13 years ago

@ Achems

I think that after death it is much like before birth. What need is there for eternal entity if it only experiences this brief amount of time we have? It would be a paradox if I were not aware of it now.

Actually quantum seems to be a paradox. It is mostly a mathematical construct in a form of equations. Correct me if I am wrong but reasoning that there are limitless possibilities that all exist is because math works out no matter what variables you put in. Hm... not convincing enough for me. If I can find one impossibility in my reality it means that they are incorrect.

Too bad as I would love to fly. A more earthly example perhaps is an imprisoned person that is limited to a pool of probabilities in his limited environment.

Connie
Connie
13 years ago

@ Hesus

YEs I made a typo. DID you notice how many times I got it correct?

Achems Razor
Achems Razor
13 years ago

@Hesus:

You are right, we are limited by our 5 senses, can only envision 3 dimensions plus time. So just by saying that, it does mean there is much more that we can not envision.

Yes when we die there is no more world etc: for us. But there is no oblivion either.

When you say "your entity is doomed to eternity to a state of no awareness" again by saying that you are saying that we should be aware off a state of no awareness, and be aware of an eternity when we die? that is sort of a paradox is it not?

I do not know what you mean by your personal experience?

We are collapsing the waveform by looking. That is what a lot of quantum physicists say. Don't take my word for it.

Anyway, the best for 2011.

Hesus
Hesus
13 years ago

@ Achems

Even if time and space are an illusion which we perceive through our ?computer brain? it is still nevertheless limited for our entity. Once you die your so called separate entity losses the brain through which it interacts with the world. Unless you are talking about reincarnation your entity is doomed to eternity to a state with no awareness. I have a hard time excepting that absolutely every possibility exist. From my personal experience I can tell you that we are limited. What is collapsing the waveform?

@ Connie It is TDF and not TDK ;) @ all a wonderfull 2011! @ Vlatko many thanks for this great site.

Atrophy
Atrophy
13 years ago

@Arnold Vinette
Not to mention the side effects of drinking too much 'diet' soda. The Aspartame breaks down into a few nasty chemicals that the body cant deal with very quickly. In some cases it caused symptoms akin to MS.

I think the primary change between the raw food and cooked food diet these days is the process by which our 'non raw' foods are produced and preserved. I come from farmer stock and can tell you meat, potatoes and hefty quantities of milk hasn't done them at all badly. The main difference is the source. Home grown meat, home grown fruit and vegetables and milk from those home grown cows.

Arnold Vinette
Arnold Vinette
13 years ago

This was a very interesting documentary on the evolution of cooking food and brain size. Unitl I watched this BBC documentary I never even associated the two.

However following the logic of the program and the scientists made me think about the association of these two aspects of being human.

Several years ago I experimented with an apples only diet and found just as the test subjects did that it didn't work. I was left feeling continuously hungry and later was going to the bathroom all the time.

Only when I switched back to a balanced diet of cooked meat & fish, cooked vegetables, cooked starches (potatoes and rice), and the occassional fruit did my proper energy level return. Now I know why because of this documentary, several years later on.

This is an important program for kids to watch at school so they realize why it is important to eat a balanced diet. It all comes down to be able to give your body the energy it needs to get the job done and keep the brain sufficiently powered.

And a healthy balance of foods accomplishes this.

I would be interested to see how the brain reacts to someone drinking a Coke or Pepsi drink. I have just recently learned how dangerous it is to drink a soft drink a day. I used to think of these drinks as just water. However the fructose sugar in a soft drink makes them anything but like water and unhealthy in any daily quantity.

Weight gain of 10 lbs to 15 lbs can be expected for someone drinking a Coke or Pepsi a day for a year. Many people do not even think twice about it. This can happen without a person even knowing what they are doing to themselves.

So great program and how the human body adjusted to a switch in cooking its meals by enlarging the brain and allowing humans to do all of the incredible mental tasks they do today.

Arnold Vinette
Ottawa, Canada

Atrophy
Atrophy
13 years ago

Enjoy your cooked food people :P
Small guts... yeah right.. loosen the belt :P

Casey
Casey
13 years ago

Merry Christmas !! :-)

This one came across like a doc working on a foregone conclusion ... never a good sign!

But yes, with raw food embellished with manure, pesticides, fertilizers, animal feces, what-have-you, we're all better off cooking food than not ...

I read somewhere that in ancient Indian Ayurvedic traditions, cooking is considered a process whereby heat energy gets transferred to the food we eat aiding in digestion ... but they also have strict guidelines on how much to cook and what should and shouldn't be cooked.

Another doc called 'food matters' (also on this site) touches upon how cooking food kills nutrients. And that makes sense... our disease-fighting capabilities are puny in comparison to other species that eat their food raw.

To cut a long story short, I say COOK IT...but only a bit :-)

Connie
Connie
13 years ago

@ Thank You @TDF Ps Thank you for all the extra Docs you put out this week. There is much variety and We are enjoying them very much.

Connie
Connie
13 years ago

@ Christmas Patrons

Merry Christmas to those who celebrate Christmas!
Greetings and HAppy Holidays to Vlatko and all others.

For Uncle Eddys sake we are celebrating Christmas as a last minute thought.
It was such a last minute thought that I did not make the stores in time to get anything from the market to make the Christmas meal that we planned LOL.
However we are fortunate enough to have plenty of food from the freezer to make most anything, except the roasted chicken we had all agreed was our choice meat . so we are having Roast Beef with the trimmings LOL.
I have not celebrated Christmas in many years and it was very hard to get the swing of it. We had to fake it to get started. Gary went to our woods and cut down his first Holiday tree, Let me say "Charlie Brown" Has done better . He chose a Hemlock that was too big! Hardly any branches and what it did have was sticking out across the room. The tree has about 6 branches and yet it is taller than the ceiling and nearly covers the room. we have to duck under it to get into the living room. LOL

We did get to the dollar store in time to buy some decorations and lights. It wont take more than we bought for sure. i think the 12 bulbs will be more than enough to fill the tree. I bet one set of lights will be too much LOL
Any how since we got tired and will decorate the tree when we awake today.
I am missing one thing to make a Christmas today. I Just cannot get into it very deeply without My TDF Films Family.

We are together most everyday connected to thoughts and filling each other with parts of ourselves learning and growing together. I just can't enjoy any Holiday or festivity without sharing it with my TDF family. So with all due Respect for those who are celebrating and those who are not HAve a Wonderfull HAppy DAy and Know you are in my Heart and thoughts.

(((( Hugs to all )))) Connie

Jo McKay
Jo McKay
13 years ago

Very good documentary; congrats go again to the BBC and to V for posting it here - I get a notice in my e-mail when new docs are posted- that is very helpful.Had my cable removed,and hooked my laptop to the TV,first as an experiment intended to be short-term; I honestly thought I would miss home and garden {& cooking)shows the most - not many online, instead I have discovered many more documentaries then imaginable. What a wonderful internet world! I read thru' about half the comments, then gave up after too many Vegan vs Carnivore talk. Then when Evolution was brought in?... I was lost...ummm, how do I say this: Evolution is not a theory - that was a million year old skull of 'our' ancestor shown early in this film; I don't think there is much issue with intelligent beings having different opinions about the 'nature' and origin of consciousness, but the scientific method uses reason to demonstrate truth - too much EVIDENCE to even debate human evolution anymore. Story telling has been a favorite human pass time; modern humans wondered for example why ancient ancestors made up stories about 'belief' in dragons and other fantastical creatures, until, we also unearthed the remains of dinosaurs and more recent extinct animals. Then we said, ah ha now those ancient stories make some sense (our ancestor had no way of being certain that these fearsome creatures were extinct - they could be lurking over the next hill!) We have also had many AH HA moments when reviewing the creation stories of different societies, not different people, because we are genetically one people.(after we killed off another human species 'neanderthals', who it turned out were at least as smart as we were, but could not fight off the disease we brought with us when we met up with one another)... I digress too much. PS. Comment from Princeton who says: "well technically, eating a vegan diet is still feeding on other life" is appreciated. But for me this documentary pointed out something more important ie. there is good reason why eating a wider variety of energy rich, high protein and high fat foods and it's easier digestion (and more nutrients released) from cooking allowed humans to benefit from bigger brains and smaller stomachs. (Not to mention less time needed to eat or hunt, so we could spend time building culture, technologies, etc). Our 'brains' developed a preference (craving) for that high energy food - reasonably then - but in the last century especially, for some of us, food sources are not scarce or seasonal, so our brains "rewards" for eating more fat, more sugars has led to a problem. The implications and understanding of that and what we can 'reasonably' do about it are the point I got from the film and found most interesting.

Phinease
Phinease
13 years ago

As far as consciousness is concerned that's completely unknown and pointless to argue because of that. So take it as "I believe this because..." because no one really "knows" for sure.

Phinease
Phinease
13 years ago

Natural selection is as evident as artificial selection or sexual selection. We can see the effects and it's pretty hard to disregard it no matter what you believe. The jump from that to speciation is pretty small and not that difficult to understand. Granted it is a THEORY of our origins but it's the most conclusive theory we have and the majority will believe it until a more concrete theory emerges. Not saying that creationism isn't impossible, it's just that we have a theory we can test and see evidence of (supporting and not). Similar to how ancient civilizations believed god made the sun rise, or made rain fall, ect..

Panspermia is also very interesting and worth looking into if you never have.

Connie
Connie
13 years ago

Its a sad thing that I should write so much with a clear and concise mind and then lose all my writings and find it impossible to regather the heart of what I just wrote with just one extra touch on my keyboard.
I get so angry with myself....grrrr.

Basically twas this: Atrophy,Achems, and Hesus you guys just wrote since comment 75 onward some awesome stuff that I would like to respond too but to keep from writing a book I need to take time. To write the book and then condense it.

You guys have said a mouthful and with good seasonings added. I would like to add mine and demonstrate how they all connect from my view of the fence.

Achems Razor
Achems Razor
13 years ago

@Hesus:

Yes, I see your viewpoints, as in science my viewpoints are in a constant state of flux if any new evidence arises.

Yes, matter is energy, but who or what condenses energy into matter, that I suppose is where the god thing comes in for a lot of people.

Ah, you say when we die, our consciousness is lost because energy is not organized anymore. by that token you are also saying that we organize energy, Re: collapsing the waveform.

Consciousness is not lost, it is a separate entity.

You are talking of time as if it were not an illusion, but space and time (spacetime) are an illusion, they do not exist in quantum mechanics, therefore that is why everything happens and did happen at once. At a photons perspective there is no time, at the speed of light everything is static, time stands still.

Schizophrenic world? perhaps, but who makes it such? why humans, in most cases with there free will

Hesus
Hesus
13 years ago

@ Achems

I have been thinking about this topic a lot and see your points but still can´t agree with you completely.

Matter is a form of condensed energy. We are in a way organised energy. My point is that when we die our consciousness is lost because energy is not organised anymore. When someone dies neurons deteriorate, most of electro magnetic energy powering that being is lost as heat - ergo that particular consciousness is lost.

Time is a flow of space or more accurately light. It defines the passage of time as we perceive it. So snapshots (moments of time) are not frozen but travel away from the point in space where it occurred with the speed of light.

I agree with you on the probability field. What makes us exceptional and is the most defining characteristic that separates us from other life forms on this planet is planning or in other words choosing a particular event in the future from the probability field and are able to realize it.

By my logic I have to say that only the option that happened exist in time and other probabilities do not. They were an option up to that point but were never realized.

And lastly if universe is indeed conscious it means that it is schizophrenic and we are the manifestation of it so Earth is in a way a stellar loony bin for our universe.

Achems Razor
Achems Razor
13 years ago

Since @Atrophy: brought up quantum physics/mechanics, and the doc "down the rabbit hole".

Will attempt to give my viewpoints which of course does not mean that they are completely viable...but.

I do not like using the term soul. We are all separate "entities"
And yes, entity means eternal. Everything all ready happened, to use an analogy, it is like one big picture album full of unlimited snapshots.

And each snapshot is forever frozen in time. By each snapshot I mean we can follow one event at a time called "nows" that seem to flow in an uninterrupted movement always forward, hence gives us our seemingly flow of time.

Now, we do form our own reality, by choosing choices to take, from the unlimited probability fields, How many of you chose to do something that forever put you on a new path, sometimes even the most mundane choice started a new series of events that became your new reality, to do this or that, to go here of there etc: What of the choices you did not take? they are still there and still being actualized by your other multidimensional selves and just as real.

As in "many worlds theory" "parallel universes theory" anything that can or will or has happened, did.

And since "I think" we live in a conscious universe, we follow the advents of collective consciousness, to form all we see, does not mean it is not there but we by collapsing the wavelength as per quantum physics, convert the electric impulses in our computer brains to form matter, matter is an illusion, an atom is 99.9999% empty.

See the "copenhagen interpretation" and "youtube-a conscious universe-the observer effect"

And again I must add there is no such thing as "oblivion:
Try to imagine a state where nothing exists. Such a state is impossible even contradictory, since the concept existence is necessary to apprehend it. Therefore existence exists necessarily, even if nothing else exists. So there is always "something" instead of "nothing"

Connie
Connie
13 years ago

@ Atrophy,

I have a serious question for you.

I am racking my brains trying to figure out how you and others are so exceptable to the idea of evolution theorys. with possible explanations as a dihard belief.That so often show no explanation. I honestly thought you were going to be able to give me some hard data backing up your belief. Yet I see only possible explanations so far.

How is it that people bleieve in nothing rather than something that people have explanations for.
There is so much history and pre dated material and stone records of writing that speak of mankinds beginnings. It is the interpretations that are different and need disecting thru the ages. But all cultures have a belief in a higher power.
How is it someone believes in nothing rather than some kind of intelligence somewhere that started existance as we know it?

How is it that people actually must believe there is no soul and that there is not an eternel place for that soul?

I find it hard to fathom that people think we are just flesh and blood.

I find it hard to believe that people actually claim to be Atheist and regard no soul and yet tell someone they LOve them.
If Love cannot be measured or seen then why would an Atheist Love or claim to Love.

I cannot comprehend they they really believe what they believe.

Why would an Atheist have a gut feeling that there teenage child is not back yet from a night out and suddenly gets a gut feeling that they are in trouble. The parent begins to worry and think the worst thoughts and find out its true.

If there is no soul when where do the gut feelings come from?

Just what connects human beings together when they are apart?
How can a mate think and feel what another mate is experiencing without a soul connection?

I quiver to my bones to think there really are people who believe trully there is no soul.. I cannot believe they really believe that. I think they must be so sad and so hurt that they cry out to know. Surely they must be rejecting from pain what they trully want is to feel the connectedness.

Atrophy
Atrophy
13 years ago

@Vic
How did he make us human, magic ?
The theory of evolution provides a possible explanation as to how. Expanding your imagination to the possibility that an all powerful being might just refer to a few billion years as a couple days... Its not so far fetched.

Vic
Vic
13 years ago

Did cooking make us human ? No, God made us human.

Farren
Farren
13 years ago

The group of I think 12 volunteers who ate nothing but vegetables were suffering from detox from the unhealthy diet they had been eating up until that point.

The average person has a toxic body which is waiting to develop diabetes, arthritis, heart problems, and/or cancer down the road.

Healthy people who have done fasts and eat vital, life force-filled foods don't have that reaction because their bodies are not so toxic.

The group could have eaten some fruits for energy, as that's what fruits give. Healthy sugars. They don't contain much minerals.

Vegetables are for minerals. They don't contain much sugar.

Farren
Farren
13 years ago

This doc speaks more like a propaganda piece for the meat and dairy industries.

So many people have been cured of cancer, diabetes, arthritis,...other issues by a raw food diet. They don't need to eat ridiculous amounts of food either.

Check out Dan McDonald, the LifeRegenerator (google).

Check out Dave the Raw Food trucker. Cured of all his ills,
colon cancer, etc. now more vital and energetic than ever.

Check out the movie May I Be Frank.

all of these show that this diet is far superior than the cooked, meat and dairy diet which on the surface works but causes many of the health problems in the developed world.

Raw diets done right give far more energy, appreciate and enjoyment of life, and spiritual passion.

Connie
Connie
13 years ago

@ atrophy I also would like to know how does DNA coming from a Adam and Eve support Evolution and not The religions? Seems to me it supports both.

If their was a creator then the creator started the same seeds as in Genesis says. Man was created in his image.

If it Aliens they started the Genetics of Man with their test tube DNA samples

If it were Evolution they Evolved from a source that is Unknown. Unless someone really bites the worm too hard and denies the facinated idea that all was per chance and yet things today even still need percise conditions and are so intricate and think that is per chance.
Life has patterns and Geoms and exact numers in their equation of creation. Naw ! I can't bite the big worm I smell the Lure.

Charles B.
Charles B.
13 years ago

Mr. Razor:

"Achems Razor Thats it!… No more mister nice guy! The way that I see it, “Atheist” minds are more “Mature” then the minds of religious people.

There is something about religee’s that remind me of children, almost child-like in there thinking and behaviour. It took a long time for atheists to come out of the closest, but since the ceasing of burning at the stake for heresy by the religious majority. we atheists have come into the fold. Science now “runs” the world.

To me the minds of religious people just have not progressed per. “EVOLUTION”
They still have minds that are heuristic of tree dwellers."

You've been nice up until now? Yikes! It's just a matter of time until those that now "run" the world (the atheists) show themselves just as cruel as anything the Catholic church has done in the past. I'm quite sure of that.

Connie
Connie
13 years ago

@ Atrophy , A truce is good. Now I would like to know since there is so much hostility in regards to Evolution or Not would you be willing to work with me at seriously without disrespecting one another study the pros and cons.

I am a busy person and always working on another project, I never sit still too long. So it will take time and sometimes it might take a back seat.

If you agree then I would like to watch those videos you mentioned first. And I want to be able to give my viewpoint and whatever data I find without condemnation.

My first Question about the DNA would be that from what I understand the world has been habitated long before the Christians claimed. During these times humanity has been wiped out of existance several times but supposedly always a remnent survived. How would that affect the DNA example they use as the first Adam and Eve? what if they were not the only Adam and Eves.

I am not convinced that there was only one Adam and Eve.

I would like to know How many DNA samples connect the Chineese,Japanese, Europeans etc.... as One originator? What are these test consisted of? Cause I am not convinced we are all from one Adam and One Eve. If anything I might tend to Believe all those different Types of Humans were all genetically linked to a DNA prototype but were genetically altered, And thats why they connect to a one source Adam and Eve.I would believe this first.

I do not have the enough time in the world to study every single thing on earth to have data so I can make a commentfrom my viewpoint. So I hope you do work with me on this.
And Thanks for the truce and tone.

Atrophy
Atrophy
13 years ago

@connie
Substantially more information that round :D

Ok, DNA can be traced back to a scientific Adam and Eve, not saying we stemmed from only 2 humans, but that their genetic lines are the only 2 identified survivors from ancient times.
The Docs "Journey of Man: A Genetic Odyssey" and "The Human Family Tree" are excellent examples, I particularly enjoyed 'The human family tree'. This by no means is an account of the evolution of man, but makes reference to evolutions roles in mans spread around the globe. There has been a couple docs on here that have made reference to DNA evidence linking us to everything on the planet. Even plants share a small portion of DNA with us. I think one of them was actually the documentary 'Why do viruses kill' which also makes reference to evolutionary branches which include mammalian creatures'.

I don't claim that god doesn't exist, that hasn't been proven. Nor do I believe that science and religion are mutually exclusive. Einstein was religious, and if you watch 'fundamental falsehoods of creation', also on Top Docs, the narrator mentions a few stalwart believers in God that are also renowned scientists in one field or another.
You harmed no bubbles of mine.

As you requested, my definition of 'we' is to include the majority of regular posters on this site, including myself.

I did spot my error in 'you say' shortly after posting but was unable to correct it, sorry for that.
may I correct myself now. You indicate a disbelief in evolution. State your argument for creation... you did of course.
So, I did Google 'darwin confession' and found;
- 'The story of Darwin's rebuttal did not start until about one generation later. His former nurse, Lady Hope, was able to join the lecture circuit with this claim, but without tangible evidence either way. Whether Darwin ended up believing in the theory of evolution or not, the damage has been done in his name. And ... if he did recant, on his death bed, they say, then he did not actually make any efforts to make his confession public.'
There was also mention on a couple other sites from the same search of letters to some of his colleagues and close friends stating his doubts.

Either way, we have seen so much evidence that has been scrutinized and reviewed since then that has done nothing but reinforce the theory.

Now the nitpicking...

"You are speculating without documentation when you made the claim …:You said:
“As you enjoy coming here looking for something that blasts our theories out of the water, we keep hoping some of you will be enlightened to the physical world around you.”"

I will refer you to post 61 second paragraph
Because Atrophy your reality is not the same as mine. WHen I see such a Title I exspect to watch a Doc that laughs at the idea of evolution I figure sooner or later you guys will get it. I exspect anytime for the lies to be blown away.

Anyway, lets put the bickering to rest and drive toward some honest thought provoking conversation. I do not enjoy bickering, that's not to say I don't enjoy a good argument tho :D