Ice Age Columbus: Who Were the First Americans?

Ice Age Columbus: Who Were the First Americans?

2005, Science  -   116 Comments
Ratings: 7.79/10 from 57 users.

Ice Age Columbus: Who Were the First Americans?Traditional history tells us that European settlers discovered America about the time of the Renaissance. But revolutionary new archaeological data and the latest DNA research reveal that Europeans visited our shores far earlier - some 17,000 years before Columbus was even born.

Filmed in glorious high definition, this two-hour, epic drama follows an intrepid family of stone age hunters as they trek from their homeland in southwestern France, cross 3,000 miles of ocean and eventually make their first permanent settlement in what is today the northeastern U.S.

Along the way, they overcome starvation and storms with the help of a revolutionary weapons technology they would later bequeath to the native peoples of the Americas.

But awaiting the pioneers' arrival is a stark, empty continent, filled with a plethora of bizarre and lethal animals - all brought to life by brilliant computer animation. Firmly rooted in the latest scientific discoveries, it's a compelling vision of the greatest migration in human history.

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116 Comments / User Reviews

  1. I wrote a sincere, albeit critical, opinion about the documentary: the actress who played Zia wore make-up throughout; One male actor had a partially shaved modern hair style; and, having studied the pre-history of the current USA, I question the facts presented to prove that the first human born in America was a northern European. Apparently, comment was not acceptable.

  2. To be a documentary, it needs to have more scientifically factual data. It bothered me that facts, real findings in all of North America, do not line up with the "documentary" assertions. It came across to me as a thinly veiled attempt to justify the White Nationalist view of the world. It also bothered me that Zia had beautifully plucked and shaped eyebrows and was never without well done make-up. I guess the actress couldn't bring herself to actually look like a cave person. And one of the young men had a skin-head- shaved type haircut.

    1. It was a Hollywood production, how else would the actors look. Besides, this movie is pretty factual. When you do more research and find out that over 1/3rd of the American Indians are direct descendants of white Europeans. I guess you are going to have to explain how come so many Indians actually speak Welch. Which by the way is a European language. The first people in America were white people. Besides, why would anybody want to look like a cave person when there is no evidence of it in history. Oh wait a minute, you believe in evolution. So I guess that is why you don't want to believe the truth that this movie presents. You would rather believe in the lies of evolution. However, you are going to have to explain why the Cherokee Indians still to this day celebrate the feasts of booth that is in the Old Testament. How come there were Indian farmers. Indians, Asians, Blacks, and other races do not farm, only white people farm. I think that you better do some research because this movie is pretty historical and factual. something you know nothing about.

  3. If we all came from Africa then white people are Africans too, wouldn't all of you who believe that theory say?

  4. Ms. Garcia, Florida nor Georgia were ever a part of Mexico, if that is your statement. Your hatred of white people doesn't take away the fact that there is evidence of caucasian people being here before the Indians of America. I also just saw a documentary of New Zealand and the Polynesians Maori tribe arrived there 800 years ago and there was evidence of blonde haired and red headed people already existing there but the politically correct climate has all but erased their ancient history. In area of Northern China there are gravesites with mummified tall redheaded and blonde people. There is a lot we don't know and your hatred and many others of the white race or caucasoid type of people cannot erase facts. You may distort it with your hatred but you cannot erase the truth.

  5. Correction: Oscar Wilde

  6. "The only duty we owe to history is the rewrite it."-Oscar Wild ....And rewrite is all you people do!

    The truth is that ALL OF THE AMERICAS (SOUTH, CENTRAL & NORTH AMERICA) was already occupied by Aboriginals; as in Brown people with red undertones like copper pennies who were already living here when the Mongrols showed up and mixed in with them (adding yellow undertones) just as the land was already inhabited when Columbus showed up. The only difference is that Europeans came to kill and conquer not assimilate or co-exist as the Mongols did. There is enough oral, anthropological and scientific evidence proving this but some people would rather believe and build on theories and out right fantasy than truth and logic. Some people choose to believe that absolutely no-one lived in Texas, California, Lousiana, Georgia , Florida or any where in North America even though many of these states were previously a part of Mexico which is geographically connected and therefore walkable and a warm walk at that to Central and South America which we know were occupied? Some people would rather believe a big wall of ice blocked out all humans until it melted allowing the Bering Straits passage. LOL What they mean is THEIR people didn't have access before the Bering Straits opened up. The egos of White people wont let them admit that they were last on the scene and that they took control by using predatory, unconscionable vicitious, animalistic ways of their ancestor the Neanderthal. Their egos wont let them demonstrate integrity in many other ways either. And, that's the truth. (I'm speaking of Whites on a whole as a people. Of course this does not ally to every individual.)

  7. " kennewick skeleton " is clearly native american,duh!

  8. Just curious how the film makers of this extraordinary documentary came up with the language that the Solutreans spoke.

  9. Everyone who wants to take credit for 'Europeans' settling America take this into account along with your lack of education....1) there were NO Europeans 10, 20, 30 thousand years ago, there were no Americans there were just people and these people still descended from the earliest man from Africa...test your own DNA, even if you're white and see how pure it is. In fact about the only 'pure' Caucasians are the Icelanders. If you think that this documentary somehow now gives you the 'right' to wave a confederate flag and yell yahoo whites were here first, you and an uneducated bigoted hate fomenting moron. And EVEN IF whites were here first then the actual white Europeans who settled from Columbus on down abused your ancestors no matter what the original color of their skin was so you simply can't take that away. There also happens to be evidence and theories about an Indigenous people crossing over to the mainland on what is now the European continent....they were ALL just people, no nationality, no idea of race just tribal affiliation so pull your head out of whatever orifice you keep it in and have some knowledge dropped on you before you put your paws to the keyboard again. Sheesh!

    1. Yes - amen!

    2. True people where simply surviving, no true concept of race as it is today. No red and blue states, no USA racial politics. Yes, they had their own issues amongst themselves but there's no way they were processing their race and skin tones as today.

  10. Does anyone know what language they speak? What dialect?

  11. I don't feel it makes a convincing, confident argument. It is definitely possible, or do you think that only polar bears get trapped in an ice flow? It presents a reasonable hypothesis, and doesn't claim to be fact. The problem I have with this documentary is that Zia's presence would have been highly unlikely. Clearly she was in her prime child baring years, she would have been back in her village tending to her children.

    The exiles that discovered her looking at their dead deer would have wasted no time in savagely raping her, repetitively. Alternatively, they may have fought over her like a trophy, then the raping would commence. Regardlessly, the exiles would have immediately killed her brother and "husband" (Marriage didn't exist until about 10000 years after these events allegedly took place when it was invented by religion).

    In all but the dying of scurvy and malnutrition scenes, they all seem to have perfect teeth. Does anyone else feel this would be highly unlikely?

  12. Here is one of the many proofs that the first Americans were actually White Europeans, not the Indians. Besides, why do we call the American Indians, Indians. Did they come from India? No. They came from Asia. It was Columbus that first called them Indians because he thought that he landed in India. The first Americans were actually from Europe not Asia, and at last 1/3 of the Indian population are direct descendants of white Europeans. This includes the Ojibwa, the Cheyenne, the Shawnee, the Crow, the Snake Indians, the Cherokee, and many more tribes. The Cherokee to this day celebrate the Old Testament festival the feast of booths.

  13. I read in Bryan Sykes book, "DNA USA, A Genetic Portrait of America", pub.- Liveright Publishing Corp., 2012, Chapter 4, "The Mystery of Cluster X", page 46 and 47,"four predominant mitochondrial clusters (mDNA) among Native Americans...closest matches in Asia, ..three (A, C, and D) originated in Siberia, and one (B) farther south in Taiwan and China. In 1997 a number of number of rare and sporadic sequences had been found in Native Americans that were recognized as belonging to a separate cluster...called X. A study of the Ojibwa Tribe, who live primarily around the US-Canada border and the Great Lakes regions, found that a quarter of the Ojibwa volunteers mDNA was this different Cluster X. Apparently, about 4% of the Dine, Navajo people, are Cluster X. No trace of this cluster in Siberia or Alaska, and only one person in China. Lots of Cluster X mDNA is found in Europeans, but the Ojibwa sequences have some different mutations, suchas a variant at 213, according to Mr. Sykes. But his X Cluster nickname of Xenia mDNA and Ojibwa mDNA show the same at sequence at 189, 223, 278. There is to be expected some differences, Sykes thinks, after a long period of isolation. And the most recent date estimate for Cluster X in America is 15,800 years ago. If anyone is really interested in this, they can also go look it up in "American Journal of Human Genetics 60 (1997), 241, R. Scozzari et al". Now best evidence for Ancient DNA and an earlier arrival of Cluster X is Windover, Florida. It was a woody marsh 8,000 years ago and used as regular burial site by Native Americans. In the 1980's, 177 bodies were recovered along with carved bone, wood artifacts, and about half had intact skulls. The very early days, suchas the 1980's, in DNA recovery was not so good as today and Sykes review of the Windover data only sees one had the core Cluster X sequence motif of 223 278. If genuine, he says, it could lower the limit of 8,000 years on the antiquity of Cluster X in America. Whether Cluster X mDNA in America came from Europeans, as it seems to have, is not accepted or truly proven beyond any doubt, but for now it looks to be a good possibility.

  14. Egyptians got their knowledge from nubians/ethiopians. These people were the mothers and fathers of Egyptians. Then the pale faces came back and started stealing Egypts Sh!t. They they squat (jews) and ran away with their religion. Then the rest of the pointy nose folks came and camped. The black folks couldn't take them and migrated. I mean, everywhere black people goes - here comes whitey stealing raping and destroying. What haven't ya'll destroyed on this planet?


    1. LOL monkey. Egypt is the civilised part, Sudan is a dump. Stop crying that mean 'pale brown men' beat up the space age n***** who could not even invent a wheel.

  15. Like "America Before Columbus", this doc was interesting and educational.
    Visually the video was very blurry at times, so sometimes I had to use the smaller screen.
    I felt sorry for Zia, stuck with all those men!
    There's so much to be learned by studying our genes.
    My hat goes off to our biologists, anthropologists and geneticists, who make new discoveries like this possible.

  16. Just wanted to help some people out with the claim that "Ancient Egyptians were black" comments.... So there are 3 types of humans (breeds if you will) essentially... They are The Caucazoids *White people including the middle easterners*.... The Negroids *Black Africans*.... And Mongoloids *People that look asian.....Asians with slanted eyes if you will*........They can tell what "Breed" of human you are by bone structure (mostly facial).... and the overwhelming majority of all the skeletons from ancient Egypt were of the Caucazoid type. This is not a speculation... this is a fact.... sorry racist black people. Were not gonna give up ancient Egypt that easily!!!

  17. what utter hogwash haha. all i had to do was read plot and as far as im concerned it was the viking not stone age people and as for the first americans that would have to be the indigenous people

  18. This is nothing more than fanciful propoganda, it ranks right alongside Joseph Smith and the entire Mormon nonsense. There is something profoundly eerie and Europeans are desperate to write themselves into the historical record as the race of human origin... You can't have it all guys.

    1. Cant handle the basic truth?

    2. genetics say what?

  19. The premise of this story is disturbing. Hello....? Asia....Bering Strait....? Look at the people were "discovered"! They were not white/Caucasian/whatever caste system classification people are using these days to describe their ancestry, they were of Asian descent. Hence, the original North Americans did not look like the the original Europeans.

    The people who made this are so silly and need to get a grip.

    1. The Caucasians were exterminated by those Columbus met 17,000 years later.

    2. Thank you Politiqu! The premise describing how the "original Europeans" got to the North American continent made no sense. Even if the film has said Vikings it would also raise eyebrows. As we know the Vikings hit Canada New Foundland, the furthest travel they did in North America after Greenland. But the vikings came like 1000AD. Native Americans aren't Europeans by today's or 17000 years ago standard. So why the insistence that Europeans must be the only people in the world whose ancestors' traveled to new continents? What about Native Americans and other indigenous people who lived in the Americas way before Columbus' great grandparents were born?

  20. Made a mistake......thought the discussion of this film would be intelligent, not the usual troll-like language of some. *sigh*

    The remarks that are intelligent, thank you for your insights.

  21. Neat documentary, but the "evidence" sprinkled throughout the program has not been accepted as factual. It should also be noted that there is zero evidence that the culture currently labeled as Solutrean has yet to be proven to have existed in North America because the artefactual samples proposed by scientists such as Dr. Stanford have been challenged by a majority of other scientists from his own field.

    One of the major challenges is the entire presumption that they traveled along the edge of the North Atlantic Ice-sheet. That entire episode reflected in this documentary is 100% conjecture and speculation and Dr. Stanford's only defense for his case is that evidence of raft/kayak/boat making specifically by the Solutreans may have been swept away over time or is still buried 20-50 miles off the Eastern coast seabed. He also doesn't explain why these people stopped using their boats once reaching soil-rich lands. Why didn't they refine their boatmaking and take their ships south along the Eastern coast down to Florida, Cuba, South America, and the Gulf of Mexico? That's what the settlers from Asia did on both sea, lakes, and rivers.

    Furthermore, His idea that they mingled with Asian-origin peoples isn't supported by his argument of the Haplogroup "X" marker. The Haplogroup X2a found in some genetic markers of peoples of indigenous ancestry in North America IS NOT traced to the same genetic marker "X" found in "some" Western Europeans, North Africans, and Middle-Easterners where "X" has revealed itself in a small portion of the populations. Also, the time line for the X marker dates back over 30,000 years ago and its origins stem from Haplogroup N from Africa not Europe.

    At the end of the day this drama plays more like a story of fiction rather than a documentary.

    1. what about the ancient chinese artifacts found along the west coast and loads of texts about chinese trading with natives, in and around 15th century, plus i thought they came from central asia through mongolia and russia and across the bering strait which at that time was frozen over so much it was passable, and apparently the eskimos have been there about 30,000 years ... and in my opinion seeing as the aztecs, incas all those different tribes made it over to s.america,they had to get there somehow? on board columbus' ship?! i think people trekked over the bering strait all the way down south, plus they look extremely similar( native tribesmen and peruvians etc.) to native central asians,mongolians etc. and pacific islanders were not enough in numbers in comparison to the many s.american natives to have migrated all the way inland over the andes....all just my opinion peace

  22. This "documentary" is a farce.

    17,000 years ago the ice age European landed in what is now N.America?

    Truly laughable hypothesis.

    1. What's so laughable? That people from 17,000 years ago weren't as stupid as you obviously think they were? I bet there was a lot more travel to a lot more places over the last 50 or 60 millennia than anyone wants to give our (not so dumb) ancestors credit for.

    2. Its all true,Indians are the only non belivers

  23. whats wrong with u yanks... always talking about this pointless **** its don't matter, its all distant history, no one can really be more or less proud of the achievements of OUR forefathers... cause non of us where their...

  24. Nubian were dark skined but had no affiliation with MODERN DAY africans meaning the black race.. and egyptians are not africans nor arabs all that so called stolen legacy or higher technology is crap just like Black Athena reserved for people who cant create their own civilization and try to steal other achievements to feel better with their miserable contribution to world civilization..the so called empires were just kingdoms whatever that means that had no impact in world affairs ....who cares about them anyway ...greeks had several empires ,chinese,romans if you wanna call empire a bunch of villages and cities bound together be my guest and use tales and fairies combined with different racial evidence of extinct peoples to baptize them africans go ahead make us laugh...freedom of speech aka freedom of ignorance..

    1. As a Professor of History I can only say your analysis is not only flawed but borderline silly. Nubians have no affiliation with Modern Day Africans? LOL. That's like saying the Pilgrim have nothing to do with modern day Americans. Not only does the DNA suggest your wrong but commonsense dictates otherwise. And I bet you haven't even read Black Athena! LOL

    2. Hmm, a professor of history that cannot use 'your' correctly. Thank god you're teaching our students!

    3. hahahaha he used 'your' correctly... your ass is dumb.

    4. That would be "you're", supposed genius.

    5. Nubians STILL live in modern day Egypt. They live in Southern Egypt and they are STILL black. I have several friends from Egypt who are not ARAB in ancestry but are Nubian and they would be considered black in America

    6. Nubians are STILL black people to this very day...I know several of them who are from southern Egypt. People have such a racist perspective of History that their racism won't allow them to believe the obvious...that the Ancient Egyptians were black people, no different than other East Africans many of the tribes of Africa in West and South Africa will tell you that their ancestors migrated to other parts of Africa from North-East Africa. Intelligent people know that the Greeks were the under studies of the Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Egypt (an African Kingdom) was/is the foundation of this worlds civilization

  25. A great documentary,a great effort, really focuses at the fact that the man only believes what it knows and the knowledge remains inferior to each discovery which humbles the earlier scholars and their thoughts, only God is an exception who knows all,

  26. If you think that Africans were here before Columbus, you are probably African American. What's the difference, unless you passionately believe so.

  27. There were actually Africans that came to America hundreds of years before Columbus. Historical data proves this. I've just recently learned about it and found it interesting. Others may find what I said interesting as well, so that is why I am typing this comment.

    1. WTF are you talking about? Making a bold comment like that should come with at least a minimum of a Wiki link to an article lol. Especially since it's very easy to persuade people when making bold statements like that on the internet. The FACT is, there is ZERO, I REPEAT, ZERO as in 1 - 1 = 0! Evidence that African's ever came to America before the slave ships. African's by nature were very primitive hunters that relied on the land mostly, some tribes would fish rivers mostly, but they had no way of crossing an Ocean. And NEVER had the technology, or luck of having ice sheets or a land bridge to help. This is not a racist comment, its just trying to disprove misinformation. Who ever told you that was mainly doing it out of jealousy even though there is no body who gives a fu*k who came here 1st. So in essence, that person is a racist, by trying to turn self gratifying fantasy into fact.

    2. You are aware that Egyptians are african right They were those dumb hunter gathers that built the pyramids.... The pyramids that are still standing today..

    3. No, Egyptians were not "African" unless you are saying they lived in Africa.
      A group of noted physical anthropologists conducted craniofacial studies of Egyptian skeletal remains and concluded similarly that "the Egyptians have been in place since back in the Pleistocene and have been largely unaffected by either invasions or migrations. As others have noted, Egyptians are Egyptians, and they were so in the past as well."[95]
      google en.wikipedia dot org/wiki/Egyptians

    4. That's ridiculous...The Olmecs were the foundation for ANCIENT America and they were obviously black from all of the Ancient HUGE stone heads they left behind. Its only absolutely no evidence of blacks being in the Ancient Americans before Columbus came to BLIND people...

    5. totally agree.

    6. Not saying it's not true, but which Africans are we referring to? Africa is a huge continent with very diverse populations. Africa can't be equated to just "black people" although most do have darker skin tones. That vague reference the European Colonial way of referring to people of African descent; it abolishes the rich heritage of people like Nubians, Ethiopians, Khoisans of South Africa, Berbers of North Africa, Ibgos and Yorubas of Nigeria--and they do not all look the same at all. Darker skin is climate adjustment, but that doesn't make them one race. This is New World European classifications. Yes, it could be some Africans made their way to the Americas, but that wouldn't be the entire regions of North America, Central or South America; it would be specific regions. My guess is the Caribbean and the Southern U.S. simply because it's closer to the continent of Africa for migration. I'm a mixture of five continents including Africa. My earliest African DNA is about the 1400s in Mexico. My earliest Amerindian DNA is 6300 BC in the Northwest of the United States; I would say that yes I am a very early arrival in the North American continent, but I wouldn't attest to be the first Natives, nor I'm I interested in being the very first people here. I have genetically connected to several people groups.

  28. Europeans always looked beyond their borders. ;-)

  29. A Native American friend of mine gets bent out of shape at the suggestion that Solutrean people might have hit the shores of America first. Does it matter?

    1. It only matters to the ego but not in real terms and real time!

  30. Truth is Truth, but in my opinion, who's on 1st or 2nd doesn't matter. Unless its going to bring about Harmony & Peace between Us all. Like Jo McKay said: We are all One People.... Pass The Popcorn :)

  31. @ LeighaKhemet - thanks (I think)... my first gleaming hammer :)

  32. JO MCKAY hits the nail of truth right on the head with a gleaming hammer. But I don't think tyrannts will ever want to face the truth and intill they do the war goes on and on and on and on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  33. I really understand the importance of history what I don't like is for all the facts about "HISTORY" to not be included in what some call "Truth" or maybe it's the truth that only some want to hear and others decide it's ok to take away from or add false knowledge to. That is why when I see or hear certain "FACTS" I don't just rely on some video of what "Could Be" but only what "IS" and "EVIDENTALLY/ FACTUALLY is studied to be.

  34. Not new info, however, still debated hotly - hard to argue with dna markers don;t you think? On an aside, a few of my aunts grew up during very euro-centric times in Canada; they were known to claim that their half-breed status was really from a 'dark french' side of our ancestry, :) , haha, how right they may have unintentionally been. Another irony (when modern europeans arrived again 400 years ago, it turns out they attempted to: colonise, enslave, assimilate, and exterminate 'their OWN' ancient ancestors - I say 'attempted, because obviously First Nations, and our culture and many of our languages, have survived) ... So early Europeans & Asians hey; where did we wander from before that? Oh yeah, Africa - bottom line, we are all related, we are all one people - I hope it doesn't take too much longer before 'we' learn how to "deal". (Somebody pass the popcorn :)

  35. Liked this one - plenty of twists in the story.

  36. I liked it a lot and found this very interesting, the 1/4 of Objibway DNA being European was a convincing factor here, i wonder if the hypothesis will stick the test of time.

  37. If europeans actually came here and were assimilated, would there not be any residual DNA trace of there existence here?
    Or could it possibly be that it was a one-time fluke, they crossed camped out here for a while, and not being able to withstand the climate or wildlife died off?


    1. I know you posted your comment eight months ago but anyway i was thinking if Columbus came in 1492, why is it that he or those that arrived shortly after him didn't find thousands of Europeans, i mean think about it Columbus came here 16,500, years after those so called ace age people and are you telling me that lady in this film was the only one who had a born here? I mean there were plenty of Native Americans here when he got here. I can't dismiss this folks, in fact where are all the people, Europeans that would, do should have but would have been born here. If any one has read, "The Hundredth Monkey, it might help to explain a lot, Basically the book talks about these scientist from Japan, i believe, studied these monkeys on this particular island for fifteen years and one day the scientist noticed that one of the monkeys did something that they had never done before; one of the monkeys picked up a hand full of sand and started scrubbing this calm he had taken from the water with the sand to clean the clam, then another monkey started doing the same thing until all the monkeys on the island were doing the same thing and then the scientist noticed something that around the world all the monkeys starting doing the same.

      This very well could have happened to us There is just one people on this earth. Location and development of people over thousand of years gives us different looks cultures and so on. I don't want to sound metaphysical because it's not metaphysical. There are two many loose ends here. At best it was a good movie, science fiction or like bovinebuddy states it was a fluke. I could go on with this but i'll stop here. Thank you V, good movie.

      All in all this opens up a lot of questions in my mind about a lot of things.

    2. look up haplogroup X (dna)

  38. Very interesting. I think it is a very plausible idea given the evidence that europeans were the first to inhabit the americas. we need to remember that it is just a theory, and that theories can morph and even be proven false upon further research, better technology, and future archaeological findings. Furthermore, arguments based on race following these findings should not even come up. This is science, and the truth should be the ultimate goal no matter what your ancestry is.

    1. Yes but where are the rest of the europeans, in europe.

    2. The science doesn't line up with it don't f*** say that it does just because it meets your IDEALS and fantasy world. Natives were the first people, we are not Asian just because we may have came from that region. Have we dug up all the fossils there are to find? No, we never will. At it's best, science is still just theory and most of the time these white scientists try to lie and twist the truth so we will never know.

  39. First off, how many NDN's are here on this site??

    Secondly, what the hell happened to the old thinking that no one was here before the "Clovis" people only 13,000 tears ago. Seems to me that certain people of pale skin might be trying to rewrite history again. Some stone tool was found and it just has to be european or wasichu fabricated because the poor, underdeveloped "red" man didn't have the smarts to do it?? Just an attempt to further the eminent domain agenda, yes we had a right to take it all, manifest destiny remember. Proving in any way possible that we was here before them damn "redskins"!!
    Damn it's a good thing this didn't come in Custer's time. Btw, have any of ya' put some thought into the idea that maybe humanity didn't only start in Africa??? Just because evidence hasn't been found don't mean it's just a silly idea. Think about it, most of the evidence has been found in nice mostly barren places. Guess we'll have to wait for the rainforest to be consumed to find out. Us Natives get a little irked at the idea of wasichus claiming to be here before us, thats just laughable to us all. C'mon let us keep something dammit!!! LOL!!
    Anyway, keep your brains open the next great theory or discovery just might be evidence of human habitation in South America older than any in Africa!! There's ancient pyramids down that way too, built by injuns so keep it quiet. Ha!Ha!!

    1. Techn8ve there is one people on this earth period, location and time transforms habits and looks. All of it's yours there is no need to leave you anything.

  40. there's so much i could say (rant lol) here.... but in a nutshell. this is a docco. it expounds some theory based on available evidence. it is NOT proof of life the universe and everything. as for the race dilemma... there are bullies on each and every side of the fence. whatever our personal views might be, none of them can change the past. we only have the present to work with and a future to look forward to. i think its hight time we all stopped thinking in terms of race. perhaps thinking in terms of cultures is better than in terms of race. these days i think of myself as an earthling. i think the world is becoming too small for separate races (and even separate countries). there is plenty for EVERYBODY except bullies for whom there will NEVER be enough. i sincerely think that there is even plenty of scope for everybody to embrace and enjoy the variety of cultures on planet earth. god it would be sooooo boring if we were all the same.

    1. Right on roland

  41. Sigh, Why always about race. And it comes from both sides. on one side it's the moron whites saying that all good comes from pale skinned culture..dopes. On the other any minority that howls that all whites are the one previously mentioned. We are talking about friggin cave men here I believe that it is entirely possible that they coexisted and comingled with no problem at all. One reason for this belief is that the natives did not immediately exterminate the whites when they came here but shared their knowledge and culture with them. That occured throughout European settlement and advancement in the new world. I hate what happened to the natives as much as the next man but I didn't do it and if i had a chance today wouldn't do it so leave me be. There is evidence of European, Asian, and Polynesian influences on this continent. Only a racist regardles of color has to fight for sole posession of history.

  42. @ Dread

    What? You made very little sence above- I think you may be on to something but I'm not sure what it is. How did Bob get involved? Who was telling bed time stories and to whom- and what did any of this have to do with "White weaponry Power". Inquiring minds want to know.

    @ Everyone

    Hey yall what's been shaking. I am back from the hospital and proud to say my dads is much better for now. We know the time is near though and are trying to prepare, if that is possible. How do you see your path through this? I think it will be just looking for the next step one at a time that will end up prevailing. Any way thanks for the support and friendship, now lets get on with changing the world- One doc, one comment at time right here on TopDoc. I know some are laughing but I see potential to do something extrodinary here- to inform, to include, to discuss, to understand, to change. Yes thats it, "to change" not others but ourselves and in the process we have all become sort of a family- right down to the petty arguements and heart felt apologies. Congratulations Vlatko- your site has taken a life of its own that transcendes intention , you must be very proud. Now I am ranting so I'll shut up and watch some docs, a few have been added since last i was here.

  43. Another white assault on the Native(The ROOTs)of the Americas(Old world).

    -Until White weaponry Power exists!! Them try to tell Bed time stories, weather the rest like it or not.
    -Well tell them to the Zombies.

    -You can FOOL some Peoples Sometimes, But you cannot fool All them peoples All the time- Sir BOb Marley

    Just Calm Down white Boy & give Thanks to the peoples who feed you. For 80% of the resources from mother earth is consumed by you white Europeans.

    -What More You want..........Mr Ego(EU'genics).

    1. They just want to lie and say they come from here in order to continue to rape, steal, and rob from First People instead of taking some personal responsibility and going back to Europe and forming their own culture or at least gain some wisdom from ours and make something for themselves. Whites lack introspection on the Intelligence Pyramid and they never think about their actions or consequences and just rub off their problems on the rest of the world.

  44. I just got done reading the rest of the comments. European peoples in america during the ice age is a fact. DNA testing of specimens from the windover bog and the kennewick skeleton indicate a European presence as early as 9000 years ago. Its verifiable but not widely acknowledged. Look it up its fact not racism.

  45. I think the idea here isn't just who was in america first, but that at a time we thought barren of significant migrations appears to be full of them from everywhere!
    This also indicates both a sophisticated trade network and technology as well as higher levels of civilization in more established regions during the frigging ICE AGE!
    Todays politics are impeding such empirical evidence because it is inconvenient. total bs.

  46. If the story is true o not...I don't know.

    What I know is that anything is possible (and yes, I can see the plot of this story happening) - and that the truth it's not always what you've learned or what you want to hear.

    Nevertheless I've enjoyed it, thanks Vlatko!

  47. I probably would get it, if only you could explain it. Tell me what I have bought, please

  48. rtm sounds high ha rock on man

  49. What this documentary leaves out is that European markers are found only within the mtDNA of the Amerinds. This means that the Amerinds must have killed white males and used white females for sexual purposes.

  50. @ mytwocents

    They really killed a real horse? Are you sure? Most of the time they have those disclaimers you know, I didn't see one on here but, wow. I didn't think they actually killed a horse just to make a movie. This can't be right. Some animals rights group would eat them alive, thank god.

  51. @ Kyle

    Bud, you have swallowed it hook line and sinker. Don't worry I'm not going to waist my time trying to explain- you wouldn't get it anyway.

  52. i think it's digusting and disturbing that they "needed' to kill a real horse for this despicable, cheap show

  53. @ez2b12

    A few points:
    1. All land, throughout all history, has been taken by force.
    2. Teaching them that the great juju in the sky was wrong and science was right would be impossible for PURITANS to concede. In fact, science was probably just as important to the natives as the first European settlers. The only science that was accepted to the puritans was the science of war. All forms of spirituality are overrated and unfortunately for my native ancestors, the other side of my family showed up with guns along with a furious and deadly love of Jesus. And of the king for the 200 years that the relationship was forged.
    3. No native nations acknowledged the equality between tribes, much less between races. They fought just as much inter-tribal warfare as they fought the Europeans. The Aztecs were defeated by 500 spaniards and 150000 indians. (And smallpox, or natural selection if you will) Entire tribes were wiped out through the 10000 years before Europeans came to north America. Or the 2nd wave of Europeans, if this documentary is right. Either way, the revision of native history as a completely peace-loving and benevolent unified group is just as dangerous as the white-washing of the genocide that was committed against them. A unified native population would have driven the Europeans off the continent. Instead, they were divided and conquered.
    4. Yes, we gained a nation. The most successful, powerful, and free (FOR MOST, GRANTED) nation in the history of mankind. Yes, America is in a sad state today. On that we can probably agree. But we have the FOUNDATION to fix this due to our one-of-a-kind constitutional republic. To act as though we committed a genocide to perpetuate a naziesque death regime or some form of kingly monarchy is to forget the great things and important changes that America has brought to world. Yes, I don't deny that a genocide took place. My Irish ancestors were chased out of their homeland by monarchs. My German jewish ancestors were chased out in the 1870's, long before Germany's shame. PEOPLE ARE CHASED OUT AND KILLED. THAT IS THE UNFORTUNATE WAY OF THE WORLD. We must never forget it, as you say. But to feel shame or to apologize for the actions of our forebears that brought us the greatest wealth in history is naive and a purely American construct. And maybe that says something about Americans. You never hear Turks cry for Albanians or Serbs for Croats.
    5. Without the 'raping and pillaging of resources' how would we have ever gained technology or scientific knowledge. It is easy to look back from a 21st century position and see what harms have been done. At the same time, without those harms, I wouldn't be typing these words by electrical light in my air-conditioned home. I feel no shame for being lucky enough to have been born in a wealthy country. Plus, I live in Kansas. I live near Ft. Leavenworth, which was built to 'pacify' the plains indians. If it weren't for this, I would not live where I live today. This is my home. I don't mind that it was once someone else's home. Call me callous.

  54. @ eireannach666

    Maybe she should not apologize but, to act like nothing wrong happened is ludacris. The problem was not that we where more advanced it was that we decided to take by force what wasn't ours. Now after we have had enough rope to hang ourselves we see that maybe, just maybe we where more technically advanced while the Natives where more spiritually advanced- and more in tune with thier environment. If we had of been willing to admit thier eqaulity maybe we couldv'e learned not to rape and pillage our resources, how to fight native deseases, how to hunt and gather materials in this new land. At the same time we could have taught them to let go of the great juju in the sky and adopt science, the value of technology, the dangers of monarchy. Insted we died by the hundreds as they prospered at first, then the tables turned and we massacred a whole race of peoples. Entire tribes destroyed without anyone knowing thier culture or language. What did we lose, what did we gain in retrospect. A nation? It has become what we ran from so many years ago. Power? Power is brief and fleeting, one spends all his time maintaining it to what purpose? We stole our brothers light, his very soul. God forgive us. No we should not apologize personally. None of us could have possibly been involved or had any controll over what happened. But we must see it for what it was, murder and theft. We must learn from it, the definition of insanity is to repeat the same act over and over expecting a new outcome. If we do not know what happened how can we avoid insanity?

  55. Great doc, something new I hadnt heard off, and even though it was quite dramatized, the science revolving the dna markers and the stone age diggings was amazing !


    mmmm zia was nice.

  56. As many of you pointed out I did not finish this doc. I just do not like the re-enactment type documentaries. They just seem sort of well made up, as I guess they are. I know they are just illustrating thier ideas- but I would much rather hear about thier research and how they came to these conclusions. My mind will take care of the actuall scenes and senarios. Just the style I prefer, plus I am not that interested in this subject. I don't know why. I love ancient history and Western civics is the best but I do not care very much about ancient migration routes or who inhabitted what continent during pre-history. The only prehistory concerning man I am interested in is the origin of our species and the out of Africa migration(s).

  57. yeah

  58. hey,
    I hope this makes sence to you im not a racist, im a racialist, and am aware of racial differences. This is not matter of race bottom line is that this doc was very long to entroduce an idea that could have been covered in less than five minutes. I don't know what to believe anymore too much mumbo jumbo, jumbled in a combo, some say rambo, some say it was in the cango and he knew sambo lol.

  59. Are you guys going to get me on the Native trip again?

    I see alot of non-natives talking like they know first hand.

    I would like some examples of some actual struggles faced by the complainers....BTW Ive been with a native and raised one and been in the community for 12 yrs now, please talk some sense..

    Racism is due for an A** whooping.

  60. @Linda

    HI Linda!

    Dont apologize for something you didnt do or werent around for.
    Its demeaning and only plays in to the race card.

    Be proud of the changes and progress made. Dont dwell on the past.

    It offends me to see someone apologize for being from a more tech. advanced race at the time. Look now we arent so advanced , are we?

    So should the others apologize to us for anything?

    This is a huge problem in th states. Non-whites laying a 400+yr old guilt trip on the whites for something that one had no control over and doesnt really agree on.It only adds fuel to the fire.

    Im from Irish decent so I have been schooled by my elders of our history...There was a time when it was the same for us and our Scot cousins..In fact every race of people has had slaves or been slaves at one point in time.

    Does that mean we should all apologize?

    1. Sadly, people still have slaves and not much is said it seems and it's in various places on the planet.

  61. I realy enjoyed this documentary even if it was made for TV.
    I dont want to get into the politic's of who was there first or the colour of thier skkin. I am ashamed at the way the Native American's were treated when the first white settler's arrived from England. I am Scottish and the English tried to kill us off also. I feel I must apppologise on the behalf of my people( white skined ) for the mass Genocide that took place
    These view's are my own.
    Linda ;-*

  62. @Abby
    "It could had been Moses, where is the Ark?"
    LOL I think Moses would have been a little hard pressed to part the Atlantic.

    The mechanics of the whole ice flow thing sounds quite reasonable to me. And who is to say the early Europeans weren't dark skinned with native American features ?
    According to 'The Human Family Tree', the first Europeans migrated out of central Asia after coming north from Africa. The isolation in north America would have preserved the features while integration of other cultures through trade and war would have changed the features into what is now the 'typical' European.

  63. @Henery

    Dude ,really? Come on man, I hope you were not serious.

  64. @me
    Ha! "I blow my nose at you , you so called Arthur king and your English Kiiiinights."

    Classic. I still have it on VHS.

  65. "Are you suggesting coconuts migrate? "
    "Not at all. They could be carried."
    "What? A swallow carrying a coconut?"
    "It could grip it by the husk!"
    "It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut."
    "Listen. In order to maintain air-speed velocity, a swallow needs to beat its wings forty-three times every second, right? "
    "Am I right?"

    ps. There is no proof that ppl 17000 years ago in ice age era in France were white skinned. They happen to be like that now. At least some of them. Plenty of inhabitants of France are rapidly changing that all the time btw.

  66. Henry

    To speculate that a large bird may have carried the stone is at best childish. Why exactly would a bird be carrying a stone? Apart from anything else, can you really see a bird clutching a stone while crossing something like the Atlantic ocean? Probably actually seeing as your somehow managing to clutch to your own silly little straws. People have to accept that we don't know a hell of a lot about our origins on this planet. This kind of research must always be encouraged otherwise what's the point in us being on this planet? I'm pretty sure it's not to be overly sceptical over scientific research and it's definitely not to worship any God! Much Love

  67. The stone could have floated here attached to some wood then picked up by the natives. Or even hooked or tied on to and carried here by a large bird. Why make up a story like this over one small stone object?

  68. it was our lord and savior who first... hahahaha jk im surprised some religious lunatic isn't already on a 1000 word rant lol.

  69. It could had been Moses, where is the Ark?

  70. @carpenter

    Really a carpenter?Jesux?

    Well , you are a racist or a self hater. That is offending.

    Blah , blah , blah.

  71. The white male still wants to take away the credit for finding North America, sure take away the only thing the natives have left. You found one stone tool, so now we have to rewrite history? 6/10 Doc.

    1. Kennewick Man. The Windover Bog People. The Spirit Cave Mummy.

      All Ancient European remains found in America.

  72. Good documentary. Well done. Thank you. Realistic. Divining suggests a much earlier date of human habitation in the Americas--29,000 years ago--which actual hard physical evidence will have to bear out. In any case, continued finds will fill out the picture until our technology can produce even clearer pictures of our interesting past. Blessings.

  73. Star stuff~Carl Sagan

    Randy? No?

  74. Cool doc! Cave-woman Zia was pretty cute.

  75. ez2b12
    Did you not watch the doc? It explains that Asian people
    crossed the ice bridge to North America,in much larger numbers,eventually to become 'Native Americans',hence the darker skin.
    It poses the question as to whether or not Europeans actually did survive or integrate with the 'Asians' at all.

  76. The West was not discovered , it was just eventually and migrantly inhabited. Just like us , a chance meeting of matters. Inevitably would happen.

  77. @ez2b12 - "I like it when the people that are advancing the claim do interviews and explain thier research"

    Agreed... I like the floating head style as well.

  78. it appears the europeans were here, if not first, well in advance of the influx of asians.

    however, it was a small population and swamped by the later arrivals.

    the evidence is the solutrian technology tooling (of european origin) and european dna markers in some of the tribes, mainly the ojibwe nation.

    there is, as might be expected, a certain amount of political resistance to these evidences of early european

  79. I thought we agreed that Native Americans were First settle in America. Does the rest even matter? Everyone knows what happened when Europeans really got to the Americas.

  80. Interesting documentary, I don't care for this style of doc but it had some interestinf ideas. I like it when the people that are advancing the claim do interviews and explain thier research. I don't like watching a bunch of actors act out a totally made up scenario. Besides if the Europeans came here first (caucasians) why where indians red skinned? This is probably a stupid question but it would seem to me that those from Europe would have white skin due to the cold wet climate thier. The environment here in the Americas did not turn thier skin red, it doesn't do that now anyway. We have a very similiar climate to France where I live. So why where the people that where here when the English settlers came red skinned like people from Asia?

  81. Flintknapping with Bruce Bradley is a real action packed doc

  82. As my geology professor likes to say "JUST THE FACTS MAN". Too much like a made for TV movie.

  83. to quote a sport's commentator from futurama: 'interesting if true'