The Secrets of Scientology

The Secrets of Scientology

2010, Religion  -   151 Comments
Ratings: 8.94/10 from 145 users.

The Secrets of ScientologyThis is a very disturbing video documentary for the BBC programme Panorama, by reporter John Sweeney.

BBC reporter John Sweeney's last investigation into the Church of Scientology resulted in an explosive confrontation with church officials.

This time, in a Panorama Special, one of those officials has turned whistle blower to help him reveal the dark secrets of the church, which boasts Hollywood A-listers Tom Cruise and John Travolta among its devotees.

There were no histrionics from John Sweeney this time but a second look at Scientology underlined the insidious aspects of the controversial organization.

As Sweeney delved into L Ron Hubbard's mysterious pseudo religion and found himself hounded and harassed, the group's continued denial that it is a cult seemed laughable.

This is a so-called church, yet so much of its treatment of non-believers smacks of paranoia, notably the revelation that Sweeney’s 2007 ‘exploding tomato’ impression was encouraged.

Flashbacks to his previous investigation were overused and there was no scene capable of reaching the infamy of his red-faced screaming fit.

But with former ‘church’ spokesman Mike Rinder at Sweeney’s side, the lengths to which the religion of the stars will go to discredit its critics – including dividing families - became horribly clear.

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151 Comments / User Reviews

  1. To SOME GUY :

    We all have opinions and experiences and our own definitions of Truth and other Mysteries and Unknowns of life don't we ? You obviously have stated yours but I don't agree at all. The thing is, I can disagree without reducing the beliefs and experiences of others to fit my own parameters. Can you ?

  2. The crazy part was "Yes we still believe in Scientology even after what happened to us"
    CRAZY.........You haven't seen nothing yet

  3. Who gets convinced that a "church" supposedly out to do good in the world would release personal and confidential info on it's members, ex or not, in an effort to discredit them is a place to go for spiritual health and enlightenment?

    Scientology officials openly and harshly attack anyone they see as an enemy. If they are all so "clear" from practicing the teachings of L. Ron, how can they justify being so petty and vindictive?

    And... what kind of entity claiming to be making a "better and good" world for everyone charges something as base as money to be join them?

    Requiring that your members pay fees to is not a religion. It might be some type of half-a**ed, self proclaimed "self help" group. Or a private club for dumb a**es.

    But a sincere religion or philosophy out to better humans and the world? No. Just no.

  4. This was an interesting doco. What was missing was the information in depth that would allow people to get more accurate information about the reality of the Scientology organisation.
    Actually, it is no different to many "Religious" organisations - and Hubbard himself was against the "conversion" to a "Religion". Tax reasons, not legal security.
    He actually knew he had miscalculated the growth potential of the original Group - Dianetics.
    It simply got out of control.
    People should remember that its early intention was to eliminate the falsity of "big R" Religions and in particular...... psychiatry.

  5. Bloody Brilliant! Enjoyed this film Thoroughly. Well Done .Got the truth now .

  6. Just like every religion, it's based in brainwashing, mind control, and brute force to get people in, or certain people out

  7. wow, real corrupt **** going on. It's actually very sad how they keep their hooks in people thru intimidation and blackmail. :(

  8. " Things that make you go mmmmm!!"

  9. i came away from this film knowing as much about scientology as i had known before i saw it. the filmmaker is not, in any sense, deep. i don't even know who is the head of the "church" -- everyone kept referring to "they" but no specific individual/s were ever mentioned. he neglected to define the term "cult" and, even though people generally know what is meant, it should have been spelled out, with examples documented. this was, after all, a documentary ... wasn't it?

    1. Around 8.55 the program introduces the present leader of Scientology, David Miscavige.
      As for defining 'cult' I assumed he was using it in the derogatory sense that most people are familiar with. The dictionary definition can be applied to any religious veneration in reality.
      The program could have been better though.

  10. What this cult does bring to light in a positive perspective is how society can easily manipulate the gullible.

  11. Scientology is a cult. but its just as illogical as any other main stream religion like Christianity.

    1. "Main stream religions" are just older, bigger cults. Absolutely nothing more and nothing less. All cults operate on the basis of claiming to offer the exclusive secret to rescue you from having been born, and if you buy that you're completely faithless. All believers are charlatans. All religion is trash.

  12. John , fair play to you for keeping your cool for so long I would have lost it with that prick long before you did.

  13. scientology , you have to be having a laugh. all i have to say is look at the founder. l .r hubard. im not going to waste my time writing any more, enough said...

  14. why was my other comment deleted?

    1. @Adotri1:

      Because it was off topic, and nonsense.

  15. Didn't you get the memo: Scientology is an International Scam. And that's all that it is...

  16. I don't think the journalist overreacted at all when he dealt with that guy. I know if I had some random dude stalking me at every turn I'd get pretty heated. You can only push someone so far before they lose their cool. You're either a saint or a liar if you say that wouldn't push you over the edge. If they didn't have anything to hide and they were a legit organization they wouldn't need to send those dummies out to stalk critics.

  17. @ N: Thank-you :) Yes, you are right, I am a good person and the majority of people in Scientology are. My point is that one cannot judge it by what is shown in that documentary. There is a link in a post of 'elesceptico' below which gives another side to it. That documentary is not an objective look. It involves less than a handful of people and is not what is dealt with in Scientology on a day to day basis.

    I do not 'believe' in Scientology. It is methods to improve your life and others you would like to assist. The methods work and in my experience are the most precise and effective I know of. As I want have the tools to be able to help those who want to bring out the best in themselves so they can do the same for others, I am a Scientologist.

    The problem as I have said below is that there are those dedicated to spreading the negative around. Most people unfortunately do not look for themselves to get a balanced picture of what really is.

    Have a look and then make up your mind.

    Peace :)

    1. Does Xenu exist?

    2. mmmhmmm... somebody drank the Kool-Aid... *awkward silence*

  18. All religion is no longer nessesary !

  19. @ Sebastian Veldman: sorry for the delay. I have been away. The reason I asked you if you have ever done Scientology is to find out if you have any other data besides what you have been told via critics on the net.

    Your reality is made up by what you see and hear. If all I did was read critical things of Scientology but never LOOKED at IT, I would only get one side.

    Every day, people go into Scientology churches and receive counselling and come out brighter and happier and live better lives. Every day, people learn how to help others and do so and all are better off as a result. This occurs all over the world and is why people do it.

    Now, having said that, there are disagreements and people get upset. That is unfortunate, but you cannot look at only that and say that is Scientology. There are those who forward only that kind of stuff to intentionally make it look bad.

    So, I am not going to tell you what to think, you can go and look for yourself and see what positives you can see and get an accurate picture.

    All the best :)

    1. Nonetheless, all the negatives are inevitable effects of external self-identifiers employed for the purpose of embellishing one's sense of identity. All religion is extraneous trash.

  20. One thing I don't understand about Scientology. If it claims to be a religion, why does it cost someone to be helped by it. Organized religions around the world do charitable work and help millions of people free of charge. Just as an exsample, I can walk into a catholic church looking for guidence and I would be givin books and counsel free of charge. Why is it when you walk into an establishment of scientology, ( I have done this) They try to sell you help. They were trying to sell me books. As someone who is agnostic and doesn't follow any organized religion, it seems to me that scientology is mostly interested in money and its image, rather than helping people.

  21. At least they aren't murdering people over it like christians and muslims.

    1. ...yet.

    2. No but they are stupid, and stupid ends up murdering.

    3. Do some research about the violent and invasive nature of Scientologists...when they find out you want to leave the religion. Eye-opening stuff

    4. Only because they can't get away with it yet.

  22. That soundtrack was boss.

  23. @ Sebastian Veldman: I am very happy to respond to your comment. Before I do may I ask you what experience you have had with Scientology personally? I ask so I can answer you appropriately. Have you ever had auditing or done a course?

    Looking forward to your reply then I will answer you in detail.

    1. I don't see how that's related to my questions, but no, in my country scientology is considered a dangerous cult (though truthfully, any religion can be interpreted as such so that doesn't really mean all that much)

      My questions are asked exactly because my exposure to scientology is limited, you would be capable of providing an insider perspective by answering the questions I asked you before, looking forward to it.

  24. OK. I am a Scientologist, who is part of the Church. Here is what I have to say. The side of Scientology you saw there is the arm that deals with legal, attacks, critics and so on. That is not the Scientology I know and deal with daily. I am not even going to comment on their methods. I just want to balance the picture by saying that Scientology is simply a straight look at life. What it is, who we are, how we get into a less than optimum state and most importantly, what exactly to do to get to how we want to be. It works. Concentration on the Xenu thing is simply an effort to make it look stupid by taking the most unreal thing and highlighting it. That is a very small part of Scientology.

    My point is this; for anyone who would like to bring out the best in themselves there is something to be gained in Scientology. It is impossible that in L. Ron Hubbard's 50 years of research that he came up with nothing. The technology is there to be used and can be done without ever setting foot in a Church. There are books in Libraries and now even web sites that have videos showing how to use the info. Before you have anything to say about my post, check out this link: [link removed].

    I do Scientology not only to improve my life but also because as I have a more positive influence around me and that helps everyone. Untimately, what the future holds is what we (humanity) do to create it. The more people who are positively contributing, the better it will be. I believe that Scientology does more good than bad, by far. This is not to say that I am so blind as to think that everyone in it has never done any wrong, but we need to look at the whole.

    1. @Exteriorview: And what makes you think you're capable of perceiving the whole, as opposed to a limited picture that they want you to see?

      Are you in any position to see the information of the damages vs the benefits of scientology? I doubt it, so I'm wondering what information you use to come to the conclusion that the cult does more harm than good.

      I'm also curious as to what exactly the benefits of scientology are, feel free to list them all in as much detail as you can manage, for I seem to be coming up short in figuring out how scientology benefits humanity in any way and before you go there, mass hysteria and self delusion is not beneficial in any way.

      You claim it's impossible for L. Ron Hubbard to have researched for 50 years and to have come up with nothing, but that contradicts Charles Dawrin researching for a similar amount of time and coming up with things that directly contradict L. Ron Hubbard, if time spent was the only requirement for results in research the world would be quite different from what it is today, and L. Ron Hubbard would have a lot more evidence to show if he actually did come up with something tangible.

      A lack of evidence is just that, something that isn't proven, what you're doing by believing in scientology is the same as convicting someone in a court of law just because you "believe" they're guilty, something pretty much all of humanity understands is wrong.

      Its actually rather pathetic to see people such as yourself completely unable to see such a simple truth, to twist and distort the way you see the world around you to such a degree and to think you're being a positive influence on humanity is just sad.

      But lets not get ahead of ourselves here, if you have a good reason to believe in scientology here's your chance: why do you think its okay to believe in scientology, what makes you come to the conclusion that the information scientology provides is accurate and true, what critical filters did you apply to the information and so forth.

      If there is any truth in scientology, these questions should be VERY easy for you to answer, so I'll be waiting with bated breath.

    2. @ Sebastian Veldman: I am very happy to respond to your comment. Before I do may I ask you what experience you have had with Scientology personally? I ask so I can answer you appropriately. Have you ever had auditing or done a course?

      Looking forward to your reply then I will answer you in detail.

    3. Any organization, including Christianity and all the others that says 'if you leave, we will ruin your life, separate you from your family, slander your name by revealing intimate, private information," is not a good place for anyone to belong. If you are enjoying some aspects of Scientology, you are probably just a good person and can do this on your own, by just meeting other, non-affiliated, like-minded people, not attached to such a controlling, rediculous looking religion.

  25. Xemu sounds like the Abrahamic god

  26. as dumb as many see this to be it is no no more odd and unusual than our popular religions today (of course this group do reach new levels of the downright bizarre that even outdoes creationist and twisted world they beleive they live in )
    but we react that way because it hasnt had the history of our other belief systeems, i put it to you that if this was taught to you from childhood or had roots in earlier cultures then we look on this the same as any religion .

    xenu,jesus,buddha ... whoever it doesn't matter both represent the same ideals and will all ultimately halt mental progress.

    sad to say open thought and objective debate (that relies on evidence) will never reach its full potential to allow us understand who we are and where we can go, in a world where a large proportion of the earths population puts logic behind blind faith. and then goes on to indoctrinate there children into there believing in the fantasy that they feel gives them security and answers!!!! plain wrong

    what ever happened to the single persuit of knowledge
    do so little people really care ???
    makes me feel scared

    anyways great doc , loves john sweeneys reactions throughout
    he's relentless on the subject we should all a note of the passion there x

  27. THIS is a great film by the way! Defectors (who where previously mortal enemies with the brave fat british spectacled journalist of the BBC) Whistle blowers, police, X-cult members, great footage galore.

    I WILL LET YOU IN ON THE SECRET OF OT III LEVEL STUFF, Now how did I obtain it... it's called the Internets - a series of tubes! But this OT III is serious business... read on!

    How do you know Scientology's OT III was actually written by L. Ron Hubbard?

    Scientology sued Karin Spaink for publishing OT III, claiming she violated their copyrights to their "advanced spiritual technology". In addition, the document displayed on this web page was authenticated by Helena Kobrin, lawyer for Scientology's Religious Technology Center, in a letter sent to Carnegie Mellon's legal counsel on January 24, 1997.

    HERE IS THE OT III as written by L. Ron Hubbard ( There are recordings also verifying his authorship as he SPEAKS IT WITH HIS MOUTH! HAHAHAaaaaaaaaaaHHAHAAa)

    Space Opera as Theology:

    Scientology's OT III

    Data (1) (1)
    The head of the Galactic
    Confederation (76 planets around
    larger stars visible from here)
    (founded 95,000,000 yrs ago, very space opera)
    solved overpopulation (250 billion
    or so per planet -- 178 billion on
    average) by mass implanting.
    He caused people to be brought to
    Teegeeack (Earth) and put an H Bomb
    on the principal volcanoes (Incident 2)
    and then the Pacific area ones
    were taken in boxes to Hawaii
    and the Atlantic Area ones to
    Las Palmas and there "packaged."
    His name was Xenu. He used
    renegades. Various misleading
    data by means of circuits etc.
    was placed in the implants.
    When through with his crime Loyal Officers
    (to the people) captured him
    after 6 years of battle
    and put him in an electronic
    mountain trap where he still
    is. "They" are gone. The place (Confed.)
    has since been a desert.

    Do Scientologists really believe this stuff?

    Yes, they do. This essay by Bob Minton describes the Scientology world-view that emerges from OT III. And here's an excerpt from a piece by Stacy Brooks describing her reactions upon first reading OT III:
    "I sat there for a long time after I read this startling revelation. It was a profound turning point for me. I will describe what went on in my mind as well as I possibly can. Here I had finally made it to the Wall of Fire, I had just been given the Secrets of the Universe. This was Reality! I distinctly remember feeling like I was in a state of suspended animation; as if I were watching myself to see how I was going to react to this news. I almost let the thought form: "You've got to be kidding!" But I caught it just in time and squelched it. I did allow myself to think that I didn't understand what he was talking about. But having already installed L. Ron Hubbard in my mind as the unerring dispenser of Truth, there was no way for me to reject the information. I remember feeling completely numb and making sure to arrange my expression so that the course supervisor would not realize how stunned I was.

    Mercifully, it was soon time for dinner. I remember walking toward the galley (the dining room), which was in the basement of what is now Celebrity Centre in Los Angeles, trying to digest what I had just learned. As I walked over a small bridge I suddenly stopped dead in my tracks, frozen by the thought that I was crawling with millions of disembodied creatures. I had to restrain the urge to wipe my hands over my whole body to get them off!"

    THERE YOU GO.... AAAHHHHHAAAAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHA I just pissed myself laughing. Cost around a million dollars to get the information above.

  28. i first herd of this religion on South Park and i did not even give it a second thought cos i thought it was just a joke. i was very shocked to find that it is real who would be so dumb as to belive in this. and on top of all this wow these guys are creepy

    1. "i was very shocked to find that it is real who would be so dumb as to belive in this."

      I imagine someone, centuries from now, sitting there in shock just as you are now, pondering the same thing about all man made religions.

    2. And the answer is... Drumroll.......... BRAINWASHING!

  29. this is no religion its a joke, and anyone foolish enough to belive this , deserves to be part of it

    1. That's a little unfair. I imagine a lot of these people go to Scientology when they are in some kind of emotional crisis (NOT financial, mind you ;) ) and in that state people are incredibly malleable. The E-Meter process does a good job of putting people in that state.

      But for you to want people, no matter who, to be a part of something like this, tells me you don't understand the potential for disaster a cult this big harbors. Look at Christianity man! The Inquisition, Crusades, and all America has done in the name of God. Scientologists most likely don't have THAT kind of power, but still they're dangerous! They probably swing elections and threaten people all the time.

    2. As in "The" Neil_deGrasse_Tyson?

  30. as bizarre and crazy as it sounds and seems i think it is no more crazy than any other religion. Every other religion in the world should come under as much scrutiny as scientology as they are no better. People should learn to be accountable for themselves instead of being sheep. So if your watching this and thinking to your self "i'm glad i believe in some bloke who made wine magically appear and rose from the dead" or "the bloke with a fat belly and a nice demeanor who sat under a tree is the one for me" you are a hypocrite. After we take down scientology we should rally to destroy religion and move in to the rightfully modern world we deserve.

    1. you're missing the point if you think that scientology is bad because it's a cult or religion. that's not the issue, neither is religion bad or good. The problem is how it, judging by the information displayed in the documentary, is used by some people, to manipulate, enslave, or even destroy other people. What you should rally to is, most def, to destroy human stupidity, on one hand, both those who do this, and those who let themselves get into this, and to destroy also human intolerance, which is born most of the times from sheer ignorance and fear. Then, and only then, will we "(...) move in to the rightfully modern world we deserve".

  31. Ask any scientologist about their planet "Xeno" that should shut them up.

  32. Scientology essentially throws money at anybody or anything that gets in its way. Such an insecure religion; they need cameras, security, gestapo, and all inclusive compounds.

  33. Scientology is a cult, a scam, a parasite, predatory, unethical, deceptive, the vibration of the organization is greed and bullying.

    There is no integrity in this group and one has to have a certain lack of intelligence to embrace it. notice all the defectors said they believe in the precepts, but not the organization. This is classic denial of the truth, that they f--ked up and pissed away the best years of their youth and life on a big lie, on something false, unhealthy, predatory, parasitic and fundamentally life negating on every possible level.

    Scientology is a life destroying organizational cult and needs to be put out of business for good, and its leaders locked up in prison for the rest of their thieving harmful self serving fraudulent lives.

  34. I’m starting a new religion. It’s called ALIEN-TOLOGY. All you have to do to be a member is:
    1. Give the alien lord 50% of your wealth
    2. Spread the word of our lord

    We promise that you'll be taken to Saturn after your death, with our invisible intergalactic spaceship.

  35. Really got something out of this film. Quite the trip, this cult called scientology.

  36. Religion=money loving frauds, not just scientology all religion, god is fake, this is my opinion, if u dont like cry me a river.

    1. A little proof of your contention.
      1) In the Old testament it is a sin for for a slave to escape his bondage because that would be stealing from the master.
      2) High spirited young women (sexual) should be be matched with older men of means to control her spirit.( Sounds like some rich old geezers were hot for young babes and have provided the scripture to make it happen.)
      3) Brigham Young wanted to take a number of young wives but his wife resisted the notion until she was informed by BY's avenging angles that the prophet had a divine revelation that he should have many wives and that her resistance to the divine message would require that she should suffer blood atonement (killed)

  37. My friend barely got away from these creeps, they just want your money and complete obedience, it's really disturbing how they harassed my friend for months after he got away from them. It's written by a Science Fiction writer, how can anyone believe it?

  38. Jesus loves me this I know, for the Bible tells me so.

  39. The ANONYMOUS group will fix them good! Scientology is a criminal organisation!

  40. I put 5 bucks for a chance to bit the camera spec ops guys.

  41. one word.....CULT

  42. Good doc.

    Nothing against new religions having weird taticts, they all did.

    one thing: auditing = wikileaks, uh-oh

  43. That blue scientology building in hollywood is SOOOO UGLY! I used to live kind of close to it and it is so gross to have to see every day. Another scientology whack a doo is jenna elfman.

  44. Notice how every Official & Celebrity get's irate at the reporter? "How dare you!" etc... I lost respect for a few of the actresses I saw on there today. Shame too, because some of them are actually good.

    Cult? Maybe ... F@#$%^ up? Absolutely.

  45. Werd Up jim!
    I find it fitting how this "me centered" cult promotes gain on financial contribution. God forbid you are poor and in need of spiritual help!
    "By thier fruits you will know them.." 1 Tim ?

  46. ez2b12 bought into another type of cult. Its the anti-god theme. It in itself will dominate a simple persons mind, until they will believe in anything, including space extra-terrestials before they would believe in a God, or intelligent design. Its laughable to here the alledged threats over evolution being taught in schools, LOL.
    Scientology is joke, but very real to those that are inside. The intelligence community probably are not afraid of them or conerned about them. They will probalby use them and their techinques for their own ends.

  47. L.Ron was a con artist, rip-off, boat thief, wife stealer, backstabbing a**hole & crap sci-fi writer. Most of his principals of Scientology are STOLEN from core foundations of Western Hermeticism stemming from the writings of Aleister Crowley. He was a working partner of John ("Jack") Whiteside Parsons who *was" actually a brilliant individual & independent thinker, and from where L.Ron learned of Crowley's writings & philosophy. Happy to say, none of the individuals that I know involved with Hermeticism are cult-zombie freaks who frequently use intimidation tactics to communicate with people.

    The last time I was in Los Angeles I visited a "Museum of Death" on Sunset Strip which turned out to be run by the CoS - using, however, an alias akin to some kind of human rights organization (so they never *say* it's a Scientologist run "attraction".) The whole "museum" is a well done "attraction" that speaks out against mental illness and claims that psychiatry is murder & that mental illness is not real, etc. etc. It was horrid. At the end of your "tour" they hand everyone a clipboard with a questionaire & then everyone who fills one out is then interviewed by someone from this "organization". I'd overheard one of the "interviews" & had to leave before I jumped in to warn the individuals being interviewed that they were being played & scouted out (i.e. preyed upon) by Scientologists.

    This "church" **IS** a racket and seeing the reactions & responses the reporter in this documentary received, from well known celebrities - I might add, I'm sickened even moreso. Not to mention the surveillance, blatant disrespect of those following him, harassment, intrusion, etc. The "church" wants respect but does nothing to GIVE it. It's not a "religion" it's a MOB using "spirituality" as a ruse to recruit & create intellectual / spiritual slaves.

    BTW - I have NO religious affiliation. Religion is a herding mechanism & I am NOT cattle nor a sheep.

  48. The hole concept of "clearing the mind" isn't a uncommon goal religions around nor a stupid idea at all.

  49. I'll sue you in England!!

  50. someone should spike the water supply of their compound with some LSD or kidnap the leaders and force them to drink some ayahuasca or do some ibogaine.

  51. Just a bunch of WEAK MINDED Followers... with some hard core over powering leaders.

  52. So. This film is backed by Scientology. I've gotten a lot out this doc. "the church keeps the heat up on these heretics."

  53. Hey everybody, I'm starting a new religion. It's called ALIEN-TOLOGY. All you have to do to be a member is:
    1. Give me half your wealth.
    2. Preach good things about ALIEN-TOLOGY
    3. Help to build our spaceship.

  54. clearly the scientology corporation is completely paranoid. Any group that goes to these length to video record everything can't be very secure in what they do. Even the snake handling faith healer religionists don't go to these lengths to discredit interviewers.

  55. Scientology is just another sick predatory cult for dumb gullible lost people, like the catholic church, like evangelicals, like islam, like all the others. They insist on trying to force their inherited stupidity on others. Members have no right to complain. What a bunch of thoroughly pathetic brainwashed individuals; unable to think for themselves and willingly stupid enough to get involved then complaining after they've been exploited; victims of their own delusional belief system.

    This is what religion is and what religions do. Religion is the single most vile institution on the face of the Earth, run by perverted freaks bent on deceiving the mentally weak. Religion is what people use to justify their actions and to make themselves feel better and superior to others. In reality, religion is the biggest lie that so many ignorant people fall victim to. If religion is so pure and good, why do so many kill in the name of their lord? You don't need any religion to be a good person, you just need a brain.

    Religions are superstitious fantasy cults mostly founded on bronze-age myths and followers of them are mentally ill, like schizophrenics. Religions operate on the premis of promise of reward and fear of retribution. It’s a classic mafia tactic. The ringleaders, if not extorting peoples' money or indulging in some warped supernatural fantasy, are usually to be found having sex with male prostitutes or busy raping small children in the back of a church. The ringleaders need to be assraped then sent to death camps and gassed. They are subhuman scum and are the scourge of the Earth.

    Or do as the Romans did; crucify them or throw them to the lions. Am I being intolerant? Yes! I hope so. Why should religion be tolerated? Religion rightly deserves only ridicule and contempt - instead it receives respect and tax breaks. Religion is centered on a fear of life and adult responsibilities. It is symptomatic of delusional thought disorder - a serious mental illness. Isn't it funny how, if you criticize religion, you are judged as being intolerant, yet all the major religions are themselves profoundly intolerant and hypocritical?

    Knowledge and religion don't mix. Why can't people get it?

    Furthermore,..... Tom Cruise and John Travolta are two extremely shitty actors.

  56. To nr. 25.

    Evolution is too about the origin of life. The first rule is the one of common descent. Every living being origins from just one cell.

  57. I am LOrd ZINU AKA LORD WACKEYNUTZOO and I have lossed the bond of my prison and want all the $$$ you Scientologist have collected for me I need so new cloths and stuff Oh and a hooker to

  58. The land of the free

  59. Its quite amazing that Tom cruise last three serious g/friends have been roman-catholic. It got to be something about the aliens.

  60. scientology is a big fat, juicy leech, sucking up the lifesblood of suckers.

    wish i had a foot big enough to step on it.

    loathsome hollywierd c--k s---ers as toy soldiers, with
    lurking goons behind

    its a b-movie of a cult casted with the grand-spawn of b-movie never-wases, wearing suits and kept thin on coffee and cigarettes, running the show. these stunted waifs went to expensive schools, were raised on white stuff and kept well clear of dusting.

    its a bumper crop of mushroom-heads, pegging clear stinko on the f-meter.

  61. @EZ I don't have time to say more, which I would like to. Just wanted to say thank you for your kind words. It is a nice surprise to have what seems like a genuine human connection on here. I am so sorry to hear about your friend. Perhaps I'll say more after the weekend which is nuts for me.


  62. Wow, this cult is sure more messed up then I thought it was many years ago when I first heard about it. Still, isn't there a law permitting the use of spy equipment or using evidence for extortion? I really don't know what can be done to this cult, or pretty much other cults here in the United States, but its pretty sad that our tax money funds this sort of lunacy.

  63. @Coyote; Agreed, money and masses can equal power in this world. Especially in this country and with this corrupt bunch of lazy lawyers running it. My feeling is more of a generality where quite simply the teeth are removed from the beast by pointing and laughing.
    @The topic of prejudgement; It is blatantly true in this world that the vast majority of wholly individual people get pidgeon-holed by some percieved image of one of their personality traits. I.E. the christians are a buch of Jesus rocking prosteletizing moral pushing dogma sheep. The great thing about that is that they seem to be the only group where people think it is ok to stereotype and marginalize them. One blogger mentioned gays. If I said all gays were diviant leather clad fiends who have no compuction against perorming sex acts on eachother in fromt of a 3rd grade class, I would be attacked by defenders gay or otherwise. If I say muslims are bombers, Latinos are illegals, Africans are lazy, or Jews are greedy. I would get slammed ad-nauseum by everyone with a keyboard. I personally hate the politically correct agenda so feel free to call me a drunk cause I'm Irish, A faciest cause I'm German, An elitist because I'm American, whatever I have thick skin. But try not to be hypocritical and only generalize certain groups like theist or non theist while raging against any other generalization.

  64. Wonderful video, explains much of why there is not as much "pro-Scientology" seen like there was years ago. Dianetics, the principles to me, are sound and I believe, are needed for many, for when things seem to be their most dim, can be very empowering.
    BUT, thanks to this VERY ENLIGHTENING video, I am sad and sorry to see what this so called church" has done to the very intelligent beliefs and practices of it's founder.
    I'm sure L. Ron Hubbard would be truely ashamed.
    I hope with all my heart, no one I know gets or has gotten caught up in this life stealing scam that wants to be a religion.
    Love to all,

  65. I like how everyine just ignores that A. T. Heist guy. possibly not much point in argueing with him anyway

  66. @ Reasons Voice

    I was just saying its scary when groups like this manage to get a lot of power and start pushing their agenda on the rest of us, like the Mormon Church did with Proposition 9. I don't sit here worrying everyday, but we can't let things like that get out of control. You don't need to be won over by their nonsense to be affected, that's my point; gays certainly aren't won over by the Mormon churches nonsense, but they are most certainly affected. I'm fine with people having their own personal/religious beliefs, just not when it infringes on the freedoms of others in such an extreme manner.

  67. had a friend lived in Clearwater, Fl. you can spot a scientologist from a mile away, once you know what to look for, and they're everywhere. fascinating. simple. humans.

  68. @ Kieth

    I just wanted to say that you are a very refreshing religious person to talk to. It has been a long time since I heard this type of deep thought and willingness to examine objections from others without getting angry when dealing with religion. You do the religious population a great favor by exhibiting such restraint and deep examination of dogma. I don't mean to embarrass you but you have really impressed me, as well as made me realize that alot of my criticism of people of faith needs to be examined and at the least rephrased.

    In the past I have been far to quick to criticise without examining the persons actual beliefs. It is so easy to assume that a person of a certain denomination totally believes the dogma of that denomination. To give credit were credit is due, other things that have happened lately have also made me examine my anti-religion stance. A good friend of mine recently commited suicide after losing both of his parents within a six month period, one to cancer and the other to a freak motorcycle accident.

    Unfortunately myself and some other mutual friends had talked this guy out of his religiouse beliefs just prior to the loss of the first parent to die, well we helped him drop those beliefs I should say- the ultimate decision was his. Anyway my point is that I feel absolutedly horrible for helping destroy his faith, maybe he would not have killed himself if he could have held on to the belief that he would see them again or that his father whom was a preacher had not wasted his life. I am sure that he felt betrayed by God as well, seeing that his father had been so devoted and such a big part of helping so many people and then died as he did. Anyway this along with our conversation over the last couple of days has really started making me question myself which is always a good thing. Good job man, I sincerly hope your journey leads you to the truth you desire as well as long days and pleasant nights.

  69. now that I've gotten that off my chest....

    @ EZ and Canadian

    thanks for your thoughts. I really appreciate what you have to say. Candadian, you said you refuse to believe in anything that is not observable. I don't think I'm all that different from you but it is articulated differently in my life. I would definitely join you in refusing to declare certainty about anything not observable. The trick for me is that there is something tangible that lies between the observable and sheer fantasy, in my opinion. There is something that can be experienced, though perhaps never adequately defined, that I consider to be God. I believe that if it is not experiential than it is not terribly useful. I have no use for dogma or belief that is comprised of, "someone told me it was true and I'll simply accept that it is." That kind of transmission of belief is not only empty its dangerous and leads to all the wars and bad stuff that these conversations touch on all the time. To me, God, the whole notion, the person, etc. is mystery. God is not verifiable but can be experienced. I just think it is limiting to close one's doors to where and how that experience may take place. So, despite all the baggage that my particular persuasion of faith has, I am still experiencing God there. I don't need to turn my back on the whole simply because I have profound ideological problems with past and present actions of some human beings. I hope that makes sense.

    Just trying to articulate what I believe, or how I look at belief, because there seems to be such a strong need on forums such as this to shepherd people into camps or corrals of belief. And I will say as many times as i have to that it just isn't that simple.

  70. @Creatio-whaa

    I don't think I'm being all high and mighty, what I'm saying is that you're argument is thin and not well reasoned if you insist on ignoring facts that make it a more complex issue than is convenient for you.

    You once again discredit yourself by making an argument that is only backed up with your experience - how can your (or mine for that matter) experience be definitive? I'm not being high and mighty by using Mennonites as an example, I'm just asking you to verify that your generalization is actually worthwhile or useful in discussing this. Either it is or isn't.

    The Narconon or Criminon thing - if you want to draw an analogy, Mennonites have a worldwide relief and development arm called Mennonite Central Committee. They do disaster relief and all kinds of other long term work around the world. They are quite strict about not proselytizing. You said - "the Jesus schpiel is generally an appetizer in my experience. Whatever charity events your church engages in, I would venture to guess that in addition to helping the downtrodden, at least part of the intent and motivation is to spread the gospel, no?" The answer is no. You can say "in my experience" all you want, but the fact is that here is one case where the aid is not at all an ulterior motive. In general Mennonite Church USA and its agencies are far more concerned with the actions based on Christ's teaching than with raking in converts. You see, part of your generalization stems from this notion that ALL Christians are obsessed with evangelism. The simple fact is that this isn't true.

    On to your other said, "Jesus’ teachings might motivate you to be kind and generous, but that still doesn’t make the 6-day creation of earth, global flood, 2-of-every-species-on-one-boat, virgin birth, or resurrection of the dead tales any less a load of BS." First of all, last I checked we weren't discussing how much of any particular religion is scientifically verifiable. I don't claim that ANY of my beliefs about the supernatural are verifiable, hence I would not attempt to peddle any version of my faith based on that. There are many people like me, so figure out who you want to argue your random talking points with, and do so, but please extend the courtesy I will gladly extend to you of allowing me to speak of what I believe, instead of you assuming you understand the complexities of Christian theology enough to tell me what I believe and why it is silly. Feel free to tell me what you think is silly, but there's no point in your telling me what I believe. I don't believe in a 6 day creation or the biblical flood. If you want to argue why you think that is silliness, argue with someone who disagrees.

    You said, "But the negative things that Scientology does reflect more subtle elements that are present in many “normal” religious communities as well. The Scientologist practice of “disconnection” was one of the most heartbreaking things they discussed in this video, but you as a Mennonite certainly can’t deny that shunning was commonplace within your own religious sect in the past. What’s the difference?" I am an Anabaptist Mennonite in 2010, and that means something altogether different than what it meant to be one in 1610 or 1710 or 1810, etc. So, sure conservative sects practiced shunning. My church doesn't, and its not a practice that is tolerated in our denomination as a whole. I can't answer for all of history and all past actions, just as I wouldn't ask you to be ideologically responsible for the atrocities of Stalin or the Nietzsche-obsessed child-rapist who used to live down the street from me.

    I'm not campaigning that anyone outlaw Scientology. Certainly they have a right to believe what they want. I find it interesting, that instead of engage in thoughtful debate you insist on A) being certain you know what I, a complete stranger, believe B) impugning these supposed beliefs with belittling adjectives like "goofy" and "silly" and C) using unoriginal logic that does not apply to our conversation so much as it applies to a general conversation you are having with the ether - presumably because that one is easier to "win"

    I'm not interested in winning. I have no interest in proving the veracity of my particular beliefs - which by the way are made up of a process of inquiry and pursuit, not dogmatic certainty. Finally, I would once again ask you to verify in any specific terms - since you are all about things being verifiable and provable - what is "secretive and manipulative" about, for example Mennonite Church USA...or the Quakers....?

  71. @Creatio-whaa!?; I get what you are saying but honestly can't say it's 100%. It is all well and good that you have determined wrong and right for yourself and don't need a religious belief to be a good person. I live my life the same way. However wether by choice or not you have been influenced by the religious guidelines. All of society has been influenced. While I too no longer require any belief system to maintain a high level of moral decency I would be lieing to say that religion did not influence those morals in any way.

  72. @ Canadian
    Interesting thoughts you express. I will say this for the christian church I was affilliated with when younger. They openly admitted that they knew of God only what he had chosen to reveal to them through their own revelations and what they could glimpse from the Bible, which they also admitted was probably a incomplete and human perverted text. I know that is wild isn't it, a church that doesn't claim the Bible to be the absolute unadulterated word of God. They did believe that it was inspired by God but they also held that once that inspiration hit the mind of man it was instantly corrupted. So they read the Bible while praying to God for understanding of the text as he would have them interpret it. It was a beautiful church really, full of loving kind people- of course my grandfather was the preacher so I guess I am a little biased. I miss him soooo much. He had a way of comforting me and trying to inspire me at the same time.

    Anyway I wouldn't say that I hope Kieth becomes agnostic or atheist, I hope he finds exactly what he wants- a pure and unadulterated truth. If he wnats to call that God thats fine. He is a good example of the type of religion I find beautiful and not corrupted or destructive toward society. Thanks for joining the conversation Canadian, always love to get the opinions of my friends to the north.

  73. oh and @ keith
    good luck on your search for untainted god. and looks like you are willing to looking beyond the christian framework (without original sin, the sacrifice is Jesus does not make much sense). For me, a god with human emotions such and pride and anger and jealousy never made much sense. There is a new book that is really interesting called God is not one. it looks into the deep underlying ideological assumptions of each religion. If you are looking for a greater truth, it might help to look into ideological reason behind concepts like original sin, and subtract that from the equation. you might end up with a god beyond human ideology

    but I am really hoping you will join us atheists/agnostic or belief in a deity rather than a theity. That is what i believe in. I refuse to believe in anything that is not observable because we are just guessing in that case. and if we are to be as humble as we should be, than we have to realize that our guess are probably wrong. I don't know how people can be certain about their guess of the infinitely greater. It does not seem respectful of the infinitely greater.

    Everything you need to know about Scientology.

  75. @EZ no offense taken in the slightest. I think most of those concepts are largely man-invented too. I also agree about the political thing, it disgusts me and frustrates me. It's my feeling that the conservative Evangelical Right has dragged what I believe through the mud. What I find historically interesting is that (the new PBS Doc God in America does a great job of telling this story) separation of church state was motivated to protect religious groups from a new government who threatened the new concept of American style democracy by seeking to outlaw various kinds of religion. Jefferson, who was irreligious, sided with the Baptists on principle that they should be free to do what they wanted and sought to protect their practice from state interference. Now, we have this paradigm shift where the religious right has become such a wealthy and obnoxious force to be reckoned with that the opposite kind of attention to the principle is needed. The state, in order to remain impartial and non-religious, needs to be protected from groups who seek to misapply their own traditions to the secular state and religify them. Very interesting.

    My whole "journey" at the moment, if you will, is finding God - what is pure, real, untainted, of the real God outside of and transcendent of all the harmful concepts (like original sin, predestination, atonement theology) that have been applied to God over the millenia. I'm reading an excellent book by Joan Chittister called Called To Question. As an ex-Christian, I think you might find it an interesting read.

    Good to talk with you EZ.

  76. Wow !!!!! You mean to tell me that if I was a scientogolist and therefore a certified psycho with a stamp on my forehead to denote this achievemnet that I would only be allowed to marry another certified psycho card carrying scientologist ?

    Huh ? Whaaa ?

    Thanks Adolf,... now I'll never join your weird self-centered egocentric freak filled circus CULT !

    I think I have finally found a use for the Dark Side of the Moon... hey Mr. Cruz your rocketship is fueled and ready to launch, and there is room enough for all your dumb little buddies. Bon Voyage jack-ball !

  77. @ Kieth

    No problem man, i am sorry i jumped at you. You asked, "Why do such conversations so quickly devolve from that?"

    In my case it is because I spent several years and lots of money getting an education in theology, only to have many people totally miscatagorize what it is that I studied or believe. I also tend to get upset because the stakes are so high. Here in the US religion is tearing apart our political system, well actually it is not religion as much as it is the fundementalists that pay attention to nothing else but what a candidates religiouse beliefs are. Some fault also falls on the candidates that use religion to get support, and by doing so take the focus off their inability to govern. If people here would keep religion in its place and politics in its proper place, I would be totally fine with religion in general. But instead they allow religion to invade politics, education, and science and really throw a wrench in the whole system.

    I think several aspects of religion are beautiful; faith, idealism (lets face it if we only take into consideration what it is and not what could be, we would have nothing to shoot for- no moral or ethical goals to achieve), self sacrifice, loving the less fortunate, turning the other cheek- all very beautiful concepts. I don't see these attributes or ideas as only belonging to religion, but most religion definetly promotes them. Not all religions, but most.

    Of course even these beautiful concepts can be twisted and perverted by man in order to cause violence and war, and unfortunately that is the downfall of most if not all organized religions. In thier original and pure forms though, they are beautiful- this is why i studied theology. I wanted to understand how these benevolent and beautiful concepts could lead to the crusades or the inquisition. I also wanted to understand why man created the concept of gods or God, sin, repentance, etc., etc. I don't mean to offend you with that statement but it is my belief that man created them.

  78. Although I do not agree with the beliefs of scientology, such as xenu, or maybe there isn't a xenu as some of the interviewees professed, I would not have a problem with it except that it seemed to use intimidation and tore families apart. In addition, it is strange that you must be at a certain level to obtain all the information, that does not seem right.

  79. *shrug* Generalization: Religious belief is certainly not a prerequisite for kindness or generosity or the general desire to improve the world. In practical terms, religion has had no better track record for quantifiable improvements to the human standard of living than comparable secular organizations and they've had several thousand years' head start.

    If individuals can be motivated to be nicer people by believing in supernatural gibberish of any sort, great. But before you get on your high horse about Mennonites and your wonderful little parish, keep in mind organizations like Narcanon and Crimanon which are sponsored by that evil "cult" Scientology. Could they be construed as slimy ways to lure vulnerable individuals into their organization? Yes. But so could the kind-hearted church that hands out meals to the homeless under an overpass... the Jesus schpiel is generally an appetizer in my experience. Whatever charity events your church engages in, I would venture to guess that in addition to helping the downtrodden, at least part of the intent and motivation is to spread the gospel, no?

    Regardless of how kind and generous one's supernatural beliefs may motivate one to be, that does not change the fact that their claims about the world are still dubious at best. From "highly improbable and unverifiable" to "unintelligible" to "verifiable, observable hogwash." If one's religion makes him or her kind and generous, a pat on the back to them, but the tenets of their supernatural beliefs are still silly, and you don't get a "get out of rational analysis free" card just for being nice. I'm sure a majority of lay Scientologists are dedicated, good-willed, motivated people working to better the world. But the whole Xenu story is still a load of crap. Jesus' teachings might motivate you to be kind and generous, but that still doesn't make the 6-day creation of earth, global flood, 2-of-every-species-on-one-boat, virgin birth, or resurrection of the dead tales any less a load of BS.

    You believe in silly stuff. Scientologists believe in silly stuff. Your silly beliefs motivate you (and most religious people) to be a better person, most Scientologists' silly beliefs motivate them to be better people. You both have a right to believe your silly things, and its an added benefit to society if they happen to make you all nicer people. But the negative things that Scientology does reflect more subtle elements that are present in many "normal" religious communities as well. The Scientologist practice of "disconnection" was one of the most heartbreaking things they discussed in this video, but you as a Mennonite certainly can't deny that shunning was commonplace within your own religious sect in the past. What's the difference?

    You have a right to believe whatever goofy things you want, and I'm glad they inspire you to be a better person and offer you some form of comfort in the uncertainties of life. But Scientologists have that same right, and regardless of how creepy the Church of Scientology is, the believers still choose to remain in the Church of their own free will. Those that leave do put up with a lot of crap, but they are allowed to walk away if they wish.

    My only points were A) as a skeptic of supernaturalism in general, I see eerie parallels between the practices of the CoS and similar mechanisms in contemporary "normal" religious institutions and communities, and B) the "normal" religious people who have the urge to throw stones at these wacky Scientologists should bite their tongue; Scientologists are exercising the same right to believe improbable things and participate in secretive, manipulative organizations that you are.

  80. Guys, correct me if i'm wrong.

    Sect, cult and religion. Aren't they some-what related? Sect starts off as a separation from the original "religion" and people that dislike it say it is a cult instead of a sect. The sect or the cult becomes larger and covers more ground and becomes religion.

    It's just my vague understanding of religion so far. It just seems like all religions started off as sects or cults. I mean religion can't just pop out and gain such huge influence without having some followers that are referred to as cult or sect.

    Answer me if I'm correct or incredibly wrong.

  81. For that matter, who wants to take on the Quakers? Those money grubbing evangelizing poor people scorning Quakers. Oh wait, Quakers are the opposite? Go ahead folks. Try to apply the blind sided generalization. It works about as well on Christians as it does on Atheists.

  82. sorry, meant to say "I defy you to..." etc. in the second to last paragraph.

  83. Hey EZ, thanks. Glad we could we could agree, and be civil. Why do such conversations so quickly devolve from that?

    Creatio-whaa? - I will say this as many times as i have to, you can say whatever you want, but you can't say it and maintain a respectable line of argument when you begin by generalizing when referring to millions or billions of unique people and unique expressions of any given tradition.

    I am glad you are a great person without needing someone to give you their unique insight into human nature. I'm sure you also don't need anyone to give you any of the standard talking points against religion that you use. All original all the time right?

    Anyway, the fact is there are good atheists and bad atheists. Atheists who are philanthropic or just average good people. Atheists who are arseholes, and atheists who are murderers. You'll find Christians in all categories too. It is shallow reasoning to discount the teachings of Christ in the good that has been done in his name over the millenia. You lose all your ammunition when you make a huge simplification like "they always seem to..." Like I said, I'm a Mennonite. Are Mennonites historically perfect? No. But, I defy to look carefully into what Mennonites do around the world, and tip the balance in the "enriching themselves" category. Fact is, they take the whole teachings of Jesus thing pretty seriously and conduct their business accordingly. It's just so boring you don't read about, and you surely won't hear about what Mennonites are doing from neo-atheist noisemakers.

    If you wish to take that as a challenge - go for it. Oh, and Floyd Landis doesn't count. Random individuals do all kinds of dumb and selfish things.

  84. The first program really made me like Scientology, and thus had the opposite effect on me. I can assume there are bad fruits in the cult, but that you can find anywhere. Interviewing real crackpots, being disrespectful to Scientology after they had taken care of him, which no one else would do. It seems that it is a nice cult actually. The behavior of the person going after scientology is very rude and arrogant.

    Not to say I think scientology are all perfect, but certainly not all bad either, not proved bad i.e.

  85. Jesus and his "unique" insight into human nature are highly overrated. I don't need a guy claiming to be god, or a prophet of god, or a bad sci-fi writer to tell me the golden rule or describe what the ideal Utopian picture of society and human interaction should be.

    Organized religion sells emotions, good feelings, and unverifiable platitudes and reassurances, nothing more. Scientology does this, Christianity does it, Islam, Buddhism, you name it. Same story. And they always seem to conveniently use the majority of the donated money to expand their real estate and marketing portfolios or to hire more staff, not change the world for the better or help the extremely destitute.

    Scientology is a particularly entertaining case study because members of all the other religions will point out how different and insane Scientologists are, and conveniently overlook the nonsensical things and dubious motivations and actions of their own cosmic feel-good racket. The fact is, they are all guilty of the same glaring errors, greed, and hypocracy; it is merely a question of degree and the skill of their PR team.

  86. @ Keith

    Sorry, but I just don't remeber us having this conversation before. Not that we didn't, I just stay so busy with school and all I forget. I guess I misunderstood your statement, my bad. Yes we do agree on alot, cool.

  87. Okay EZ, relax. You and I have essentially had this same conversation before. If you'll recall, I have an idea of where you're coming from and if you are able to listen and have any posture other than angry and reactionary, you might remember where I'm coming from.

    I did NOT claim that most historians agree on the miracles. That would be silly. I said they agree that he existed "if not" performed miracles. What I meant was, while most would not attempt historical claims to miracles, most at least agree he existed and did some pretty awesome teaching/community organizing. :)

    As to this question - "Why do christians that value faith, which I find beautiful in and of itself, continually try and claim some historical proof or accuracy that simply doesn’t exist? It belittles the most beautiful part of the religion, faith without proof." I agree entirely!

    See? We agree on most points.

  88. @ Kieth

    I am so sick of people talking about what chrsitianity should be or what it was intended to be. All that matters is what it is, and that falls well short of this benevolent practice you speak of. I agree that the core concepts are beautiful but that doesn't excuse the wrong doings of the the organized religion that has over taken these concepts. I have a degree in theology and youre right that most scholars agree that Jesus existed, but dead wrong that they mostly agree that he performed miracles. Only theologians that are also christian think this is true, not most theologians. Why do christians that value faith, which I find beautiful in and of itself, continually try and claim some historical proof or accuracy that simply doesn't exist? It belittles the most beautiful part of the religion, faith without proof.

    You have a right to your beliefs and I hope they make you happy, I am not trying to argue with you. I would also agree that the two religions, scientology and christianity, are not comparable. That said, there is no proof what so ever that Jesus ever performed a miracle. There is some proof he existed and taught a beautiful philosophy- thats all.

  89. These guys running around filming the Panorama team seem to think they're doing their religion a favour, but actually are exposing it for what it is and contributing to its poor reputation... so stupid.

  90. This is great I watched it on the BBC website when it first came out. I also watched the first one in 2007. Excellent watch highly recommended. its got an insider from the church who has now left and is still a scientologist but doesn't agree with the way the church is run. Corrupt, bent, controlling doesn't even begin to describe this institution (The church of scientology, not the BBC) ;)

  91. Yes, Tom Cruise is super crazy. No dispute.

    Yes Scientology is a cult, and while one may criticize the Vatican for amassing wealth (I do), they did it very very slowly. It should be a bit alarming that Scientology has done it so fast.

    To use the nuttiness of Scientology to impugn other world religions, for all their faults, is weak logic folks. It's a poor way to make a point.

    Mack, some slight distinctions: the bearded guy is historically accepted (by 99% of scholars anyway) to have existed if not performed miracles. He also taught very simple truths about human relationships and wisdom that is profound to enough to have common threads in many major religions - as opposed to an infinitely complex cosmology and methodoly. Christians over the years certainly have created a complex cosmology and rules and strategies for salvation, etc. etc. However, the bearded guy himself did not.

    Sister Joan Chittister, a Benedictine Nun writes, "...God, save us all from the smallness we practice in the name of religion."

    Don't confuse highly complex religious beliefs with the very simple and practical (and life changing) wisdom which were once their core. My point is, it is way to simplistic and flippant to suggest that Scientology is just like all the other crazy religions out there. While for Christians you can boil down the core teachings to this...Love God (which creates humility and changes your disposition towards others allowing you to see what is good in them) and love other people (even laying down your life for people you don't like). That's my synopsis of what Jesus taught and whether or not you believe what it teaches is Truth, those precepts could hardly be construed as harmful. I am sure any Buddhist or Muslim with some depth and ability to elucidate could do the same for their religious beliefs. Can any such simple and universally positive synopsis be made for Scientology?

    Oh, and I would add that while there are plenty of bad examples of Christian churches who excel at profiteering at their members expense, this is by no means the standard or the norm. You just don't hear about the rest of us. I work for a conference (essentially like a diocese) which is part of the Mennonite denomination. No one in our denominational structure is rich. I mean that. I believe the top dude makes considerably less than 100 grand a year. My boss, who is more or less the most senior guy in our conference, certainly makes less than 60, and he's been here like 20 years. Our office is on a financial shoestring and every penny is carefully pinched. There are no lavish buildings, no gold, nothing extravagant at all really. So, don't assume, because you know this or that about this or that group, that you have a clear picture of all Christians. Please.

    Just food for thought.

  92. Scientology is a cult, not a religion. Anyone with a percentile of common sense knows that this is a scam and to top it all off, we got the worst dead-end career actors to help these people.

  93. I love the fact that people seem to think that scientology is such a crazy thing to believe in, i mean aliens, thrown into volcanoes by galactic warlords? come on!
    But is it really more crazy than believing in a bearded man that walks on water and turns water into wine?

    As ice-cube said: Check yo'self before ya wreck yo'self!

  94. i liked this doc! very interesting ( but not out-right shocking, already having watched "inside the cult" and "scientology and me" )

    i don't get the logic behind the less-than secret stalking and filming of scientology's critics... sure, from time to time they MIGHT catch them being unseemly themselves, but is it really worth it when it makes them look like such utter douche-bags?


    thanks to past a current behaviour exhibited by the scientologists, i don't think it can be helped that this doc focuses in on Sweeney a bit...

    two thumbs up!!!

  95. I fail to see how this doc. was informative at all...this Sweeney guy is awful & he makes himself too relevant as if the doc. is about him. Besides a few tidbits about the cult, the guy spends the whole time gossiping & arguing instead of asking pertinent questions about Scientology. Two thumbs down.

  96. Scientology is funny to me because it is a cheap, C-list parody of the "old" "respectable" and "legitimate" religions of the world. Why is Scientology's load of supernatural gibberish any more silly than the claims of any other religions? How is their method of psychological and spiritual intimidation any less humane or acceptable? How is Scientology's financial exploitation of their believers any worse than the Vatican or the born-again mega churches built to seat tens of thousands? Scientology is an excellent case study because its excesses are glaringly obvious, but these exact same flaws are present in all religion; the A-list rackets with 100+ million members have simply learned to be more subtle.

  97. Amazing. This gave me ALL the insight I will ever need into just how bat-sh!t crazy this cult really is. I often get asked by my peers if I now much about this organization and from now on I will direct them right here. Much praise to Vlatko for propagating free speech, liberty, and knowledge to all seekers of truth and justice. This website deserve's a Nobel prize for all the knowledge it delivers to the internet age! Viva la Top Documentary Films!

  98. @jtea45; I reject your notion that it is pointless to dispute one over these matters (religion. There are plenty of examples of Theist turned Atheist, or Agnostic, or Anti-Theist even; or whatever else term we can come up with along those lines. The point I think is that these people had to get there ideas about God or more precisely about no God from somewhere; I would be hesitate to say that conversation in some form or another with those around them would have no role in influencing their thoughts. It is only through conversation, that is some form of information and ideological exchange that people can be educated. And it is only through education that we can have any notion of the Truth, that is Truth beyond what any Theism can offer. And as for exploiting peoples beliefs for profit, is it really that hard to comprehend. Is there is anything you can think of which we do not exploit for profit?

  99. I reckon Vlatko Is their leader lol

  100. I understand people's need for faith and religion. I don't understand how some religious and faith-based organizations can feel justified in making a profit on this need. There is perhaps nothing more powerful than a belief...people would rather die or kill someone than change their beliefs. That is why it is pointless to disput with one on these matters. Life is such a short, bumpy journey. Why complicate things?

  101. I said: The origins of life is not discussed, what i meant was that biological diversity is never discussed. i suppose evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life.

  102. I think by now most people that frequent this site know that I am atheist and what my stance is on religion period. That said, this is not just another religion, it is a cult pure and simple. I left the christian religion at a very young age and so did my parents, of course they were older. No one ever tried to intimidate us or expose secrets about us. No one tried to convience my brother, still a christian, to seperate from the family. This is in no way a endorsement for christianity, I think it is one of the greatest wrongs ever visited upon mankind.

    I doubt very seriousely this cult will ever take root here in the southeastern US. If it does they will find out very quickly that it is a bad decision to try and intimidate a redneck or expose secrets passed on with assurance of confidentiality. One thing I will say for the simple bunch I live around, they believe in privacy and personal liberty and have no issue with shooting to kill in order to defend theirs. Whats more over half of the judges and district attorneys in this area would overlook offenses toward these wanks. Anything that threatens their opinions on religion, mainly that christianity is the only true religion, is free game. I should know I have had death threats that were not just idle talk slung at me simply for asking for evolution to be taught in school here. Since the laws says they can not teach creation they teach nothing. Thats right I said nothing, you take biology here and the origin of life is never discussed at all.

    If a kid asks about it he/she is told to talk to their parents about it or their preacher that they are not allowed to teach the truth so they teach nothing at all on the subject. It is covered in the text books but they will not talk to the children about it, exept to say that they do not believe what the book has to say on the subject. I had one teacher in high school that tried to teach it but, so many parents came to the school throwing a fit that he was fired. Now colleges go ahead and teach evolution, thank goodness, but not high schools or elementary schools.

  103. @ez2b12, is right!

    It is an inside joke! The ones in the know, know!
    Will go no further on that.

  104. imo all religions are BS, i think its a major setback to humanity that a lot of schools are based on religion, i was forced to go to catholic schools up untill i was in my early teens untill i told my god bothering parents that id had enough and i dont believe!
    and if IF there was a god why should we pray to it? what kind of god would want people devoting their lives to it?
    a selfish self-absorbed wanker that who!
    all kinds of religion must stop immeadiatly imo.. this nonsence does more harm than good.

  105. @ The Coyote and Reasons voice

    Actually, Achem is making an inside joke and a good one at that. (LOL) I know what they mean but I don't want to bring it back up on this site really.

  106. Oh btw, not only Christianity. Nearly all, if not all, religions push their agenda through war and brainwashing. I mean the top religions didn't get so many members with ONLY use of love. Wars wars wars and more wars.

  107. scientology forbidding it's members from absorbing media is synonymous with christianity's "do not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil."

  108. i think it's strange for a journalist to ask questions during filmed interviews, posses footage of their answers but, rather cut their confessions and answer for them. 3/4 (10:47)

    and then the actress from king of queens begins to nod her head with understanding of the journalist's proposal, then homeboy jumps in talkin bout "nobody understands you. you sound strange/weird." ...

    and all to the "queen's relief."


  109. You know it's incredible when religious people see Scientology and say "lol how can they buy into this" or "They are brainwashing". Still they can't look at themselves and realize they are doing the same thing.

    Me and my friend were watching Tom Cruise clip when he goes bananas. My friend said "Scientology is stupid" and when I took up a video about Christian people being healed and saying "oh lord! Heal-a this guys Alzheimer s-aahh!" *Slap on the forehead*. Now that was fine! Not crazy in any way at all.

    Oh the irony.

    1. i was born a catholic, and i see nothing wrong with slamming cath.religion where it sucks. but there's a big difference between catholics and scientologysts. for one, my priest never sent people to spy on me cause i said that god doesn't seem like a very likable person... i m not a catholic anymore, and guess what, no one cares.

    2. Catholics may not have sent people to spy on you, but they have murdered millions of people over the centuries in the name of Christ, outcast other religious sects (especially Judaism and Islam), brainwashed the most innocent of minds (our children), condemned people strictly because of their sexual preferences, infiltrated other cultures to destroy their way of life and in the process spread disease which has killed thousands... just to name a few infractions.

      Christianity has proven over the years to be much MUCH more evil of a religion. Granted, both are horrible, but at its worst, Scientology can only be "charged" with fraud, brainwashing, and trespassing/stalking.

  110. scientology sounds like mormonism but, with a twist of lime.

  111. I really don't see the appeal of scientology. This doc was creepy. I would have called the cops or pulled into a police station if they were following me.

    Tom Cruise is crazy.

  112. Scientology what a joke. Seems like to me they just fleece and intimidate their members. I think cult YES

  113. @Coyote; Sure what they do as regards to family is terrible and yes they are some shady people. However, Fear them? Not me I am not one to be won over by their silly nonsense. Thus they have zero power over me. As to the members not knowing about the alien ghosts etc. I know about it and have never even spoken to a professed member. Wait yes I have he was drunk and high and spent about 3 hours babbling senselessly about how I was trapped by my own reactionary mind. Total BS and obvious to anyone with the slightest sense of reason.

  114. The presentation is fishy.

    the first chick whom was said to be a spy was herself filmed holding the camera unseemingly(14:33). it would seem that anyone involved in espionage need not hold the camera, of which their eye is damn near pressed to the LCD screen.

    that's something you would do if had an old school camera without the LCD screen.

    Who does that?

  115. It's definitely worth it to try and find the first documentary from 2007, it really was quite crazy, Tommy Davis literally followed the Panorama crew everywhere they went!

    @ Reasons Voice

    This is a dangerous cult that breaks up families and can destroy peoples lives, that's enough reason to be scared. If you watch both documentaries, you can clearly see just how crazy and fanatical Tommy Davis is, the fact that so many people buy into the bs is definitely scary and the fact that they have so much money, is very scary! You only need to look at the Mormon Church to see what happens when cult becomes religion, and those religious views are allowed to be distributed to the masses. They poured money into anti-gay rights, and got Proposition 9 passed, they've also turned the boy-scouts into a religious group that echoes the churches most basic tenets, that is scary! When groups like Scientology and the Mormon church have cash coming out the a*s, I'd say we should all be a bit scared!

  116. @Reasons Voice

    Whell technically they learn about the alien part only after serving ~30-40 years in that cult (if at all they are told). By then most of them are brain dead so...

  117. Why would anyone be scared of these people? Wow they really gotta be total head cases to buy any of that stuff. How do they not make the connection between C list Sci Fi author and religion full of Aliens??

  118. I love that Animal Collective is the sound track to this thing. I only wish they would play the whole songs.

  119. Aha! more on Scientology, you ain't scared Vlatko! (LOL)

    1. You bet I'm not @Achems. I think there is no need to. This is just another doc.

  120. Lol evil space aliens, what nonsense! xD

    Damn I'd love to punch those annoying camera men paid off by that cult of m@#$%&.

  121. The first part from 2007 focused on Tommy Davis, because the dude basically followed the BBC program around and hassled them at every interview they did.

  122. The program that BBC Panorama did on Scientology in 2007 was amazing, I highly recommend it to everyone. I'm going to watch this one with baited breath, the first time was that good!

  123. o my days sum peps have no clue that there alive......
    ........wake up and smell the flowers

    1. A cult is a cult is a cult.

    2. Is a religion.