Kings of Cannabis

2013 ,    »  -   145 Comments
399
8.60
12345678910
Ratings: 8.60/10 from 67 users.
Storyline
Kings of Cannabis

Since 1985, Arjan's been producing some of the most well-known strains of marijuana out of Amsterdam. VICE joined up with him and his crew in Colombia to look for three rare marijuana strains.

They're headed to Cali to check out the biggest weed operation in Colombia. First stop, the massive grow operation of local legend El Gato, Arjan's key Colombian contact. He'd be their guide throughout the trip.

Colombia produces the most cocaine in the world. But it's also one of the most fertile places on earth to grow cannabis. And while the country allows for recreational amounts of marijuana, growing weed on an industrial scale remains highly illegal.

These days, Arjan's often found in Amsterdam. And when he's not there, he's strain-hunting, scouring the entire world looking for rare, untouched marijuana strains that are known as landraces. With authentic seeds in hand, he brings them back to the lab in Amsterdam to develop new varieties of marijuana. His companies bring in millions of dollars a year. Arjan's business partner and head breeder is Franco Loja, a paratrooper in the Italian military turned grower.

On this particular expedition, the guys have come to Colombia to hunt for three legendary landraces - Limon Verde, Punta Roja, and Colombian Gold. Colombia's landrace genetics have been on Arjan's wish list for years. But up until now, it's been far too dangerous to venture deep into the jungle.

The last 50 years have seen a brutal internal conflict between a slew of armed factions allied with different political ideologies. It's all kind of confusing, but when it comes down to it, it's a war over who controls the drug trade. Santa Marta is a city literally built on weed. In the '60s and '70s, tons and tons of Colombian Gold were exported north through the Caribbean to the US. Hundreds of peasant farmers became drug lords overnight.

More great documentaries

145 Comments / User Reviews

  1. John Krisfalusci

    Ugh, I thought I'd never say this but.. I suppose it's only a matter of time when this stuff becomes legal. I have been so against Marijuana my whole life, but now CNN is accepting it, doctors worldwide, and I don't know.. I just don't like it. =(

  2. megatron_mcdaniels

    We can't let the lizard people get control of this stuff....

  3. megatron_mcdaniels

    Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to the lizard side.

  4. jedirie j

    So if you don't like it then don't use it.. I don't drink alcohol and that is legal.

  5. Achems_Razor

    Your whole life?? you are only 16 years old! funny kid. Did you do your homework?

  6. Christian Tintin Johansson

    I don't disagree. Not that i understand what you mean but I agree with all my heart.

  7. John Krisfalusci

    Look, at least I'm making a conscious effort to take all sides before coming to a reasonable conclusion. People are still dying because of this drug due to crime and unwanted violence.

    And it is still illegal in America. Yes, I know those two states have it legal for recreational use but to Federal Law they are still subject to search and prosecution by DEA.

    You have to understand that recreational use and Medical are two completely different things. And I believe this is where arguments and disputes begin. Simply put, we're just not there yet.

  8. John Krisfalusci

    That's not the point here, if it gets introduced like this then anyone can just start abusing it and I think that's wrong.

    If you have seen the CNN's weed with Dr. Sanjay Gupta the other week, the documentary clearly states that if smoked under 25 years old, you will suffer from cognitive disorders because the brain is still in development.

  9. Samuel Morrissey

    John I never thought I'd see the day...

    Don't like it? Be a smart chap and stay away from it then.

  10. Nwttp

    Simply put..... neither you nor anyone else has the right to tell other people what they can or can not do to themselves.

  11. docoman

    Have you ever been denied access to a medicine? Do you have any idea how inhumane that is? Why do you think you have the right to tell someone else they can't have something that helps them?
    I agree with what you say about it having a negative effect on a developing brain, other tests I've seen indicate that is the case in mice, but what about everyone that's older then 25? Anyone can abuse alcohol, which does much more damage to any aged brain, are you calling for a ban on that too? If you examine your reasoning, you're a hypocrite if you aren't. And if you are, you're a controlling a$$hole who thinks he has the right to tell others what they can and can't do with their own body.

    Either way, if you don't want it, don't have it. But have the decency to let others make their own choice.

  12. John Krisfalusci

    Well that's true.. but still.

  13. John Krisfalusci

    Well I'm not a hypocrite because I don't do any of that stuff. And yes, you are correct, people are abusing alcohol, pills, cigarettes etc etc and suffering physically and emotionally from it.

    And you're right I suppose those who have cancer or dying of aids can benefit from Medical Cannabis.

    But don't you think it's a bit risky to add another substance for the rest who already have problems with addiction? I'm just saying.. we already have tobacco and alcohol to deal with.

  14. Pysmythe

    Legalize weed for those of age and start running a non-stop campaign on how devastating alcohol abuse is... In just a few years I think you'd start seeing a lot of improvements. People have always needed some kind of way to escape, liven up, or relax, for a while, and better bongs than booze.

  15. TheDanishViking

    Most weed today is produced by Donald Rumsfeld in order to prevent people from asking the right questions and instead spend their time making and watching documentaries about weed.

  16. docoman

    Are you aware that MJ has been considered a medicine, for multiple conditions, right up until the last century. (for e.g Queen Anne used it to help relieve menstrual cramps) It was banned not because of scientific or medical reasons, it was political.

    There are far more conditions it can help with then just cancer or Aids. Some research on the topic of medical uses would benefit your knowledge base, to help you understand the issue better.

    Anyone that has any experience with drugs knows that MJ is not the same as alcohol or tobacco, which most societies have deemed acceptable. Not to mention the prescription opiates that are easily available in many countries.

    Addiction is much more complicated then just the drug or action of choice. You'll find psychological reasons play a big part.

    And on addiction and abuse, MJ is a minor player that is easily kicked by most. As far as recreational drugs go, it's small fry.

    One problem you've not mentioned, is that there is a % of people that react badly to it, as with any drug. Should we ban peanuts because some people have a bad reaction? Or paracetamol? How about coffee? That's a drug too, that is widely used and abused.

  17. Lenny

    I'm 30, smoked pot on a daily basis for over 10 years and it really wreaked havoc on my life. So I quit smoking. But that's just me. There are people that abuse sugar, salt, alcohol, sex, religion, exercise, etc. When you outlaw a substance and demonize those who use it, you inadvertently create a subculture and a black market for it, making the problem a thousand times worse.

    And of all the vices a person can have, pot really is one of the least harmful. Do the reasearch yourself, you'll begin to see why CNN and doctors worldwide are jumping on the legalization bandwagon. To this day there hasn't been a single direct death caused by marijuana. Not one. Can you say the same about tobacco and alcohol, cold medicine and Big Macs? Pain killers? Dieting?

    Most importantly though, medicinal marijuana is a godsend to those who need it, and for that reason alone I will always be pro-legalization in order to make it easier for those people to have access to their medicine without feeling like pariahs.

  18. John Krisfalusci

    @Lenny Lenny I'm curious, if you say that pot is the least harmful, then why did it wreak havoc to your life for 10 years? Were you addicted to it? Thanks in advance!

  19. John Krisfalusci

    @docoman You mentioned that a % of people react badly to it, is that true? In what way? I read an article the other day where a small girl died from being allergic to peanut butter, but are there any allergic reactions to Cannbis?

    You know, now that you mentioned coffee, I don't drink caffeine but I know my parents do like crazy. I also read somewhere that caffeine is actually more addictive on some chart. I am also aware that in large doses it can kill but is it safer or more dangerous than cannabis?

  20. jaberwokky

    Why haven't Monsanto done their voodoo on weed yet? Better yet why haven't the authorities just said they did and watch everyone panic? I for one would not want to smoke that 541t. I'd have to switch meth or crack.

  21. jaberwokky

    For a guy that's been haunting weed documentaries for as long as you have you sure don't seem to have a clue ...

  22. John Krisfalusci

    I have been discussing and debating marijuana documentaries here for over a year now. I find them compelling and I have learned a lot during that time. But I also have much more constructive and productive things to do than to study about drugs all day. Thank you.

  23. Pysmythe

    "Gentlemen! Start your vaporizers!"

  24. mrsing1

    Is this supposed to be real?

  25. mrsing1

    Such precious seeds and then he drops some.

  26. Pysmythe

    You're an easy man to persuade.

  27. Lenny

    Long story short, I smoked wayyyyy too much :).

  28. docoman

    Anything can kill you if you consume enough of it at once. Water can, and I don't mean by drowning, but drinking it.

    The therapeutic to lethal ratio for MJ is something like 20,000:1 (meaning that you'd need to take 20,000 times the amount that works as a medicinal dose for it to become lethal, making it pretty much impossible if smoked to O.D.) Which is lower then aspirin, or almost any prescription drug. I don't know coffee off the top of my head mate, I believe it's lethal dose is much lower then 20,000:1. (To answer your question, that'd make coffee more dangerous then pot, yes.) The problem many doctors have is that smoking something is not the best/healthiest way of taking a drug, and its hard to meter the dosage.

    I have a family member that has schizophrenia, and for him the effect of MJ is not the same as me. It makes his illness 'flare up', and is definitely not good for him. Some claim it 'causes' schizophrenia, but the stats. don't reflect that. The rate of schizophrenia in places where MJ is widely used compared to where it isn't is the same rate amongst the population, which infers it doesn't 'cause' it. It can exacerbate it, as with my brother. I've seen it do it to him before he knew his diagnosis, he can't even 'passive smoke' it now without a bad reaction.

    Many of the problems associated with MJ, crime etc, are a result of the ban, not the drug itself. You can see a similar thing with alcohol and the prohibition era in the USA.
    Some people will abuse a substance whether it's legal or not. MJ is the same. Most times the worst you'll become from too much pot is a lazy bum, which as far as drugs go isn't that bad relatively.

    I personally think a better approach would be to make it legal for medicinal use, a misdemeanor for anyone else. I don't want more drivers on the road on pot, there's enough bad ones already. ;) And I agree, from what I've seen, the science suggests it's bad for a developing brain, so it should be restricted to underage people.

    The current stance is absurd, and cruel in some cases. I take up to 4 prescription drugs that have worse side effects and less effect, are more dangerous and more addictive, that MJ can replace. But I'm branded a criminal if I try to take the more healthy approach to managing my health issues by using pot.
    Check out the doco on here called 'Clearing the Smoke: The science of Cannabis'. You'll hear from patients and doctors on the issue.

  29. jaberwokky

    I'm sorry but I'm not convinced. People on this site have been presenting the facts to you for a long time now but you've still maintained your intransigence. The only thing that seems to give you pause is CNN getting on board. Are you really learning anything from this?

  30. avd420

    John, it's perfectly OK for you not to like it. Continue not liking it! Don't let CNN and Doctor's change your opinion on it. You can not like something while ACCEPTING the fact that it exists, that people like it, people use it and people will continue to use it and like it whether or not you like it or use it.

  31. avd420

    "People are still dying because of this drug due to crime and unwanted violence."

    John, you're correct that people are dying but wrong that it's because of the drug.

    People are dying because the drug is ILLEGAL. Because it is an unregulated black market that attracts criminals.

    Make it legal, and watch how quick the crime surrounding it stops.

    And this is being said by a me, someone that is against legalization. I'm for it in theory, but against it in practice, because I know what a horrible job the (Canadian) government does in "regulating"(controlling/owning) things their citizens want,

    e.g: I've been drinking age for about 9 years and the price of a 6-pack has almost doubled. I've been smoking weed for 13 years and it's dropped from $15 a gram to $10 a gram and has been $10 through each year of inflation. Even cheaper if I'm buying in bulk.

  32. John Krisfalusci

    Fascinating.. I think I will, thanks! =)

  33. John Krisfalusci

    That's not true, if you have seen me before I was ranting and going on a tirade back then in each discussion. If you ask them, I think I mellowed down considerably and I am actually learning something thanks!!

  34. jaberwokky

    Fair enough, i appreciate the candour.

  35. jaberwokky

    Hmmm, indeed.

  36. Adam Young

    for 10 years 3 friends and i use to get wasted regularly. two of us had endurance and could polish off a quarter over a couple of days without any real ill effects except a heavy dose of apathy. the other two would smoke 2-3 cones and be having personality disorders ( for that first half hour, some of you will know what i mean ). i was one of the later but i later found eating it via some cooking to be a more enjoyable experience without the killing off of brain cells that some newbies will tell their smoking buddies " no that's just the drug working ".

    Point being. i'm for legalizing it but some kind of grade system might be helpful to those who find it doesn't agree with them. you know you need a strain more mellow when you get wasted at a party and spend the first hour pacing the host backyard, all because your afraid your going to swap bodies with some stranger at the party, simply because they have the same first name as you.

  37. Christian Tintin Johansson

    Ok, if you say so...

  38. Christian Tintin Johansson

    Thing is you can do anything too much. You can play video games too much and that can make your life miserable, should video games be illegal? You can eat cookies too much and that can be bad for your health, should cookies be illegal? I can go on until tomorrow but I wont, you get it already. Cannabis is not fysically addictive like many other drugs, you can compare it with sugar addiction. Not that you CANT be addicted, but it doesnt have those fysical withdraws that comes with nicotine, coffee or cocaine...or the worst drug in our society, alcohol. There are lots of things more dangeruos than smoking cannabis that are totally legal and they cost us enormous amounts of money. Riding horses for example. Too many people hurt themselves and we get to pay for their recovery, nobody speaks about ban horse riding.

  39. John Krisfalusci

    @christian That's true. I suppose moderation would be key then.

  40. TheDanishViking

    ... and I am not talking about the river in Africa.

  41. jaberwokky

    I'm intrigued by your point of view, it seems to have all the answers I've been searching for late at night in my neo from the matrix delusion, how would one go about subscribing to your weekly news bulletin?

  42. Pysmythe

    Indeed. All their conspiratorial machinations are like scales to play our music on.

  43. jaberwokky

    It's sad, funny and true. Been there man, on the crazy side too. Amsterdam's classification model is something that the rest of the world might consider if they can get their collective heads out of the a$shole that they all seem to have their faces in at the moment.

  44. jaberwokky

    That was well said Sir.

  45. megatron_mcdaniels

    Nah it still fits somehow....I read Herzog like a battle cry.

  46. docoman

    Cheers man.

  47. TheDanishViking

    Far you still must go, young Jedi. Are you not aware that Rumsfeld also directed The Matrix?

  48. oQ

    They get their preciousness by travelling out of the field and into the world. Where have i heard that before?
    1i

  49. jaberwokky

    That's actually quite worrying ...

  50. systems1000

    any abuse is devastating,up to and including air,water and neighbors.

  51. systems1000

    booze vs weed.long term effects the same.like deciding being bitten by a black mamba or a fat tail scorpion.Moderation is the key to living longer.

  52. systems1000

    being able to have your cake and eat it to is Only wishful thinking.In the end you will all ways have to pay the piper.

  53. systems1000

    provided you don,t run a red light and murder someones family.

  54. Pysmythe

    Some are more common than others, however.

  55. megatron_mcdaniels

    Like....Stadanko?

  56. Diego Souza

    This video show me that a group of europeans are stealing genetic resources (weed strains) from Colombia. In any case the European Union is signatary of the Convention on Biologial Diversity and so is Colombia. If one day the European Union recognize weed plantation/use/comsumpition as a legal economic activity I think Colombia will be in his right to reclaim benefit sharing of the economic exploitation of this genetic resourse by european's companys. And this vídeo can be used to prove that! Specially in the case of companies of amsterdã that already recognize weed plantation as a legal economic activit ........Colombia should be aware and reclaim this sharing benefits.

  57. jackmax

    "the same long term effects" can you provide evidence to back that claim?

  58. systems1000

    no I can,t offer up the proof of a witch hunter (fear & vanity) but there is plenty of empirical evidence that is overwhemlingly negative.And may I add that its also been proven that medical MJ can reduce the anxiety of teminally ill people and that people who have a few drinks a day will live longer.

  59. docoman

    He didn't ask you for proof, he asked you for evidence of MJ and alcohol having the same long term effects, which you claim there is plenty of. So, show some. I too would be interested to see your "overwhemlingly [sic] negative" evidence.

    You're not mixing up the red wine research with 'drinks' in general are you? My uncle ended in a wheelchair because of neurological damage from alcohol, I've never heard of an MJ smoker having that. Which evidence are you talking about?

  60. docoman

    Did you see the part where they were negotiating with the farmer, and promised to swap him for some of their seeds? It wasn't stolen, sounded more like a sharing of genetics to me. Yes, they won't share the profits they make, but then neither will the farmer if he uses their genetics either.

  61. systems1000

    i don,t really know what the diffrence between proof and evidence are.Except that proof is only ones personal opinion where as evidence is empirical study.Fact-Manjuana has four times the tar of tobbaco smoke and 50% more carcinogens.I doubt that deep inhalation off this substance can have positive effects on the lungs other then chronic bronchitis.Among other irritating nasties.we all want to feel that our durg of choice has long term safety ,even the doctors who write and speculate about it under the guise of emperical wisdon (they use it to)

  62. docoman

    Hey?? Who are the 'lord high excutioners at Disqus'? Are you talking about the mods here at TDF? Disqus is a program used by many sites, to allow discussion, not just here at TDF.

    As far as I'm aware, the MOD's here only have jurisdiction of Disqus here at TDF, not other sites.

    And if you're saying the MOD's here are "squcamish [sic] about reality" I tend to disagree.

    Like everyone else that's human, they make the occasional mistake, but in my experience here they've been pretty fair.
    I did a stats' check awhile ago, on the % of posts deleted from some of the top posters here on TDF.

    It showed the MOD's have the highest deletion rate (as you'd expect, they have their 'work' posts deleted after they've done their job), then guess who was next highest? The highest poster here, robertallen1. BUT, his was not very far above the normal range, most regular posters operated at around 8 to 10 % of posts being deleted. Mine, oQ's, roberts, most of the bigger numbered posters I checked, all came out fairly close.

    Which, when you consider there are multiple viewpoints between those posters, would seem to suggest that the deletion of posts amongst the larger numbered posters here is fairly even and fair handed, across the board.

  63. docoman

    It's very handy to know the difference between evidence, and proof, especially if you're going to talk about them. Evidence are bits or pieces of information, that together build towards making a proof. A proof is the summation, the total of the evidences put together to come to a conclusion that fits with the evidence.
    If taken correctly, evidence is facts only. A proof (not a mathematical one, that's different), can be subjective, it depends on the standards of proof required. What for you is proof, might not be enough for me, for example.
    Someone's fingerprints on a gun is evidence. Put it together with eyewitness and video evidence, forensic and medical evidence that show that gun killed someone and the person with the fingerprints on the gun did the shooting, all combined together make a proof of who did the shooting. You can google and read up on the difference to get a better understanding then my crude explanation mate.

    Now, back to the topic. Yes, my uncle did a lot more drinking then just some red wine. He was a chronic drinker for over 40 years to do that damage to himself. I do and have known a few chronic pot smokers, none of which showed that level of neurological damage. (dumb and slower, yes, unable to walk, no) I accept my story is only an anecdotal story and not proper evidence, just my experience.
    You claimed that people who have a few drinks a day 'like' longer, (I assumed you meant live). I recall reading a study, saying that 1 or 2 glasses of Red wine a day seemed to be beneficial to health, something about the concentrated antioxidants from the red grapes. I was asking was that what you were referring to about 'drinks a day lives longer'? If not, what?

    Yes, there is more tar and about twice the amount of a carcinogen in pot compared to tobacco. But there is much more to the story then that. That's only a piece of evidence, not a proof.
    I saw on a doco here on TDF, that a study was done comparing tobacco smokers to pot smokers, looking at that carcinogen and it's effect. As there's twice the amount in pot, you'd expect that someone that smokes the same amount of pot a day compared to someone that smokes an equivalent amount of tobacco would have about twice the risk of lung cancer.
    The study showed the opposite. The people who smoked pot, not only had less rate of lung cancer then tobacco smokers, BUT, it was very slightly lower then NON-smokers.

    This study, just on stats, seems to bear out and confirm other studies that seem to show there is some sort of anti-cancer agent in pot.

    The fact is, the medical community has only a limited knowledge on what's possible from MJ in the way of medicines. And that's because the research has been blocked or made difficult, purely because of political reasons, not scientific reasons.

    To counter your claims about what it can help with, and that 'all doctors who speculate about it use it to [sic]', have a look at the doco here on TDF, called "Clearing the smoke, The science of Cannabis"
    There is a retired Harvard Professor on there, and other doctors and patients.
    There is much more evidence in the issue then you've stated, (incorrectly some of it), that if you're going to be informed enough to make an educated evaluation of the available evidence, you might have some 'evidence' leading to at least some kind of a 'proof' of your ideas that could be worth people listening to on this subject.
    Knowing the difference between evidence and proof is crucial to your own critical thinking mate.

  64. docoman

    Thanks for the link. I found it quite interesting, especially after a conversation I had the other day with another ex-grower. He knows people still in the hydroponic industry (the legal, farming etc industry), and was telling me about what he'd heard about some of the latest chemicals on the market for various effects. Femanising seeds, extra flower production etc.

    Not a fan of that myself, like I do now with my veggies, I kept my own seeds from the best plants of the season. Select for what you've after. I miss the hobby part of growing it too :( Guess it's up to you guys to keep the heirloom genetics alive for future generations.

  65. oQ

    Medical Mari is a big deal around here. Just about every one i know is related to the operation and if not, well then they are smokers or were.
    I agree with keeping seeds, i do it with all squash. Do you soak them in Hydrogen Peroxide? I've seen links that suggest to soak them before planting, my friend told me to soak them before drying them for conservation.
    1i
    edit....by related i mean either growers, trimmers or buyers.

  66. docoman

    Back when I grew pot, I just cleaned them and kept them in the freezer. You'll get a decent germination rate from good seeds for about 2 years if kept in a dry dark place, then it'll start dropping off your % of viable seeds. Freezing them will extend that time, but not forever. That was my experience anyways. Lost my collection of pot seeds a few years ago to the police. :(

    I'm still experimenting with my seed collecting with veggies. I get so many lettuce I just let 1 go a year, roughly separate and put in an airtight jar. Similar with carrots. I let the seeds for my bean, pea, broccoli, spring onion, radish, corn, chilli all go dry on the plant then pick and store in jars.
    With my tomato, I get a nice ripe one, put the seeds and the 'mushy' bit around them in a container with a little water, then put it somewhere warm, until it gets that layer of mold cover the top. Then I wash them in a sieve, dry them spread out on some paper. They mostly stick to the paper, so I cut out the seeds when planting next season. Similar to cucumber seeds, I let the cucumber go past harvest ripe on the vine, then dry on paper. Just keep some seeds from a nice pumpkin and melons. Keep my own potato for planting, got sweet potato going too.
    I still buy some seeds from time to time, heirloom seeds from ebay often, cauliflower recently, and most herbs, sometimes something new to try as well. My collection is still growing. :)

  67. systems1000

    obviously you,ve done your home work.Congrats.

  68. docoman

    I didn't even reply to everything you said that's incorrect. But, I'm interested to see your evidence to back up your position. Do you have any, or was everything you said just your opinion?

  69. jackmax

    As I asked for evidence not proof! Show me your empirical evidence you have now stated.

  70. jackmax

    If that is the case it might pay to learn the difference between evidence and proof

  71. jackmax

    it's a shame you haven't.

  72. oQ

    I agree with it all...at the moment i do not garden at my own place much other than a little patch i created in June when i moved in. My home has changed location a LOT in the last many years as i was a caretaker of houses between my travel (free rent), most had a garden for me to play in. I ended supporting other people's garden and seed collection more than my own.
    Concerning pot, most people around here now start with female clones even for outdoor unless they are experimenting with new strains (to the area) or want to do it in a cheaper way (big market for clones). Our season is short and often times the pot is grown in higher altitude (colder nights).
    Medical Mari is grown indoor a lot because when you get a licence, the number of plants permitted is much higher than the outdoor licence.
    1i

  73. jaberwokky

    Sensei I was not aware of this fact. I shall meditate on it until it brings me further enlightenment. Thank you oh wise one :-)

  74. systems1000

    its a shame that you haven,t either.

  75. systems1000

    like most,its mostly what I have read off the net.

  76. systems1000

    enjoy your weed (please)

  77. jackmax

    Is that the best you have.
    Is there any chance of getting a adult discussion and exchange of ideas and possibly advance our knowledge or is that beyond you?

  78. MFDoom

    I once had a DARE officer explain to me that it effects estrogen and that guys will become girls if they smoke for too long, so those people will say anything to get kids to not do that stuff, and there is nothing that says they can't. Really quite the opposite is true; Kings University recently did a study that showed rats with lung cancer given Cannabis actually had a 60% reduction rate in the legions within their lungs. It sucks to find out, but you have been seriously lied to.

  79. jackmax

    any chance you could be more constructive in your replies or is this as good as it gets from you

  80. jackmax

    So you have no idea what your talking about.

  81. MFDoom

    No proof, but rumors are that G13 was developed under government order, and almost anything related to both government and agriculture has the Monsanto name attached somewhere.

  82. systems1000

    Oh i think that the net would have disappeared by now if it never had any credible information. sorry,didn,t mean to frighten or anger anyone.,

  83. jackmax

    yet you don't answer the questions put to you even with your knowledge gained by the net.
    You haven't frighten anyone by your babble.
    your avoidance is annoying and it may come across as anger however your mistaken there as well.
    Why don't you try to produce the evidence you have been asked for rather than carry on like some childish fool that has no intention of having a rational discussion/debate on this issues raised in this documentary.

  84. docoman

    I wish our lawmakers here would follow your example. I'd love to come visit your country, the beauty alone would make it worthwhile. I'd end up having to be deported home probably, if I got a medi license there as well. :)

  85. oQ

    The very worse effect of pot is that it gives you the munchies. For some it's a positive effect.
    1i

  86. docoman

    Helps fight nausea. I got down to 60kg at one stage, (I weighed 65kg as a fit 16 year old), pot was the only thing that allowed me to eat without heaving it back up.

  87. docoman

    OK, so where on the net did you read the long term effects are the same for MJ and Alcohol? Did you check the site, have a look who wrote it?

    Where did you read, as you said, "even the doctors who write and speculate about it under the guise of emperical wisdon [sic] (they use it to [sic])"

    Where and who wrote that? What site?

    Mostly off the net?? You need to check on your sources.

    If I tell you there are purple elephants that fly, just because you read it on the net doesn't make it true. C'mon systems, use your brain mate.

  88. docoman

    Hmm. Porn, being the biggest industry/section on the internet, has what credible information? Most of the internet now is entertainment, not 'credible information', and would survive as such I think.
    Frighten or anger anyone? Umm, the only anger is caused by claims being made in ignorance. I'd love you to teach me something I didn't already know, however that hasn't been the case so far, and seems impossible if you only answer in vague non-answers as you've done.
    Either you have something to contribute, such as credible web sites saying the same as you, studies etc, or you don't. Have the honesty and courage to say you do or don't have sources, or else say it's only your own opinion.

  89. Pysmythe

    It can exacerbate anxiety in certain types, too, though. That's why I quit smoking it back in '84. Then I smoked again for a while in the period from '92-'94 with no anxiety problems whatsoever. Granted, this was after the time when I'd learned more about what anxiety is and how to manage it better (which involved a lot more than simply not smoking herb), but I would caution anyone prone to G.A.D. or panic-attacks to be aware of some risk of it not being, or not always being, as pleasant as they might expect.

  90. systems1000

    seriously,what ever works.1 mg of xanax and a few beers has all ways worked for me to.

  91. systems1000

    hmmmm.i,m not so childish that I could ever think that I could create pause in the minds of Cicreo and his pack of vestals that the ground on which grass grows is not necessarly all that hallowed.Not with standing the net of touchy ,mad,mumbling & stumbling trolls where so far nothing has been proven [sic] as conciusice.No one yet has the last word.

  92. Pysmythe

    Mixing benzodiazepines and alcohol is an EXTREMELY bad idea, even at low dosages. Hopefully, you were just being facetious.

  93. systems1000

    no,im not.are you refering to mental or
    physical reasons?or both.

  94. jackmax

    WTF are you saying?

  95. docoman

    What?? Are you attempting to reference the Roman, Marcus Tullius Cicero? Cicero, not Cicreo if you were.

    Have you got anything correct, or at least interesting to say on this topic? You can start by pointing out your references you say you've read. You know, the question you've been repeatedly asked now.

  96. Pysmythe

    Xanax has a very justly deserved reputation as the most physically addictive of the benzos. And it can generate pretty severe rebound-anxiety even after relatively short-term use at prescribed levels, if discontinued abruptly. When you combine it with alcohol, the chances of this occuring, both the physical addiction and rebound-anxiety (which itself isn't necessarily physically dangerous, but is extremely uncomfortable mentally) are greatly increased, since both are sedatives and increase the effects of the other. Xanax has its uses, if it's respected as it should be, but combining it with alcohol to any degree is very risky, and all but certain to bring on at least some level of withdrawal symptoms, should you run out of the drug. Combining these two is like adding gas to a fire. Be very wary of what you're doing. If I were you, I'd definitely quit the alcohol while taking the xanax.

  97. docoman

    For nausea?

  98. docoman

    Umm, systems, what drugs are you on right now?

    I'm not trying to be smart-a$$ at you, but you're all over the place on this thread mate.
    You've ticked oQ saying the worst you'll get from pot is the munchies, then said you mix Xanax and booze, but earlier pot and booze have the same long term effects.
    Pysmythe is right, xanax and booze together is a bad idea. If you get anything from this thread, check for yourself what Pysmythe said.
    Don't kid yourself, booze will damage your body more in the long run then pot will. Mixing the wrong drugs will flat out fk you up mate.

  99. systems1000

    thanks,i,ll take it under advisement.

  100. oQ

    Be humble, watch all the docs on pot here (it on information on the net as you say), some better than others but if you watch them all, you'll get a vast array of opinions from research done.
    You sound like so many people who are against pot just because they told you so.
    ...and don't smoke it if you don't like it but i would suggest you get off meds epecially when you're drinking..
    1i

  101. oQ

    Is there no medical mari in Australia?
    Here in BC you first get a prescription to consume from a doctor and then if you want to grow it yourself that is a different licence. If you don't, you take your prescription to a grower who can grow it for you providing he applies as your grower (the grower is not suppose to sell it to you ???). One prescription can allow someone to grow up to 200 plants, i've even heard up to 240 (it is meant to be juiced which doesn't get you high but you get the benefits of the components of the plant).
    The whole thing is a bit in a squeeze right now and will be revised next year.
    I could give you a lot more details of all that it has created but come to Canada and i'll tell you more....lol
    1i

  102. docoman

    No mate, no medical mari here at all. A couple states and territories have it as a small fine and pull them up for 2 plants max, everywhere else it's none allowed. I got charged for 2 used smoking implements a few years ago :(

  103. Diego Souza

    According to CDB the farmer is not the owner of the genetic resource but the country "Colombia". So you can and should negotiate with the farmer to obtain the "Prior Informed Consent - PIC" but you also need the aproval of the country regulatory board. This is a classic biopiracy case! And like you just said they won't share the profits they make... this is exactly the opposite of the CBD text. The role of the Regulatory Board is to garantee the fair and equitable sharing of the benefits arising out of the utilization of genetic resources of Colombia.

    And the worse thing is that what they want is simply become the Billionaires of marijuana market in the future.

    I really hope the Nagoya Protocol enters into force soon to prevent Europeans to continue plundering biodiversity of hiposuficient countries like Colombia.

    ;(

  104. oQ

    2 plants?
    A little story, friends of mine were growing hundreds of plants on government land which is common as we have a lot of that in BC and it's safer to grow on gov land than on your own land. The cops flew over and discovered the patch so the next day they were there cutting it down (It wasn't a licenced medical operation). Nice as they are they left two plants standing right in the middle of the patch, it was obvious there were saying...here you go...this is what you get.
    1i

  105. docoman

    Ahh, a very interesting point Deigo. I have to admit I don't know what the CBD text is, but from what I gather from your post I tend to agree with what I think you're saying. I feel the same way about my country, Australia. If someone wants to sell some Kangaroo's overseas for example, they have to abide by local, federal and international laws.
    I have to say I agree with what you say, the motives of these people are for selfish monetary reasons more then anything else.
    There is also a part of me that feels with this particular plant, share the genetics around, without cost . If it helps people good, the more that's shared the better. Could you tell me more about the CBD text, the law for Columbia, a link etc? I'd be interested to see the policy.

  106. docoman

    Very decent of them :) I wonder where all the rest that were cut down ended up?? ;)

    Years ago a mate of mine was in the fire department, a big crop was busted and they were called in to burn it after it was cut down.
    A week later, we had a smoke of some of what was 'disposed' of that day. :)

  107. jackmax

    Hey Doco,

    "systems" would drop even on a mild night compared to the average Aussie bloke ah....:) how's ya scotch mate...

    I don't need to the internet to know what substances can do as is any body that has lived and/or observed all demographics of our society could tell you.
    MJ should be on the top of every medical research list on possible treatments or cures to insure the fully benefit may be utilized.
    Governments should forget politics and start governing by investigating all natural sustainable products that has been know for about 3000 years.

  108. jackmax

    yes one could say "you're on a proactive psychoactive drug add with proactive bullsh!t fluid thrown in"

  109. jackmax

    Hey doco,

    A mate told me tonight that when it comes to seeds and cuttings we should "share the love"

  110. oQ

    I've suspected that a lot of the pot caught in grow op, end up in someone's pipe.
    1i

  111. docoman

    Cheers for those interesting links Deigo, I'd never heard of the Nagoya Protocol before.

    I have to agree, these blokes are interested in using the genetics they collect for their own personal wealth, and not as it says in the protocol, "sharing the benefits arising from the utilization of genetic resources in a fair and equitable way".
    Good point.

  112. jaberwokky

    The anxiety thing generally depends on your comfort zone in life I think. Which is why someone that is not comfortable in their own skin should not be smoking it in my opinion. I still yank my stash out from behind the dresser every once in a while because I enjoy how it widens my perspective. If I didn't think I was being honest with myself on a regular basis though I can always remember how $hitty being stoned was when paranoid. Personal experiences there. Not sure if that resonates with what you were saying but I agree with you in full.

  113. jaberwokky

    Proof that there is still hope for all of us. That comment made my day. Thanks.

  114. jaberwokky

    Oddly enough it helped me put on weight back when I was running on nothing but dreams. I wish I knew how that worked. If they could bottle that $hit i'd buy it.

  115. jaberwokky

    Seriously dude, listen to the Psymythe. Benzodiazepine has its place but mixing it with alcohol is not good. They prescribe it for recovering alcoholics, that should tell you something :-/

  116. oQ

    They do bottle it, you can buy a small bottle of oil, 2-3 drops is all you need, it's even advised to take it in a mirror so you can count the drops. 2-3hrs later, you'll get uncontrollable munchies. lol
    1i

  117. docoman

    Any idea how that stuff goes getting through customs? Not asking you to break the law or anything like that, just thinking the bottled oil, (depending on how it's made I'd suspect) might smell different and get past the sniffer dogs? :)

  118. docoman

    Running on dreams? Damn man, hard going. Keep jabbin' wokky :)

  119. oQ

    I don't know about border crossing, i'm no Chapelle...lol
    There is no smell as it comes in a tiny glass bottle, I suppose the lid could be waxed.
    In Canada one has to have a prescription to buy oil at a compassion club.
    1i

  120. jaberwokky

    "Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!"
    :-)

    I have a feeling Lewis Carroll could tell us a lot more about cannabis oil and dreams.

  121. docoman

    Ahh, ok, it's something the Corby's should have thought about then ;) That's actually why I was asking, was wondering why more isn't sold that way to avoid the legal problems... obviously it's part of the medical deal over there. Same rules would apply.

  122. jaberwokky

    Oh to be in a land so free :-/

  123. jaberwokky

    By the way keep up the good work. Between yourself, docoman, Pysmythe, DigoWongaDude and one or two more sharp heads on here I'm starting to feel like there's an education I've been missing all along.

  124. oQ

    may I ask, in what country do you live? I like the fact that people separated by thousands of miles can connect with words as much or even better than with the neighbour next door.
    We shall never meet in person unless a strong will interferes.
    1i

  125. jaberwokky

    Far from BC on the the emerald isle of Ireland, home of the wonderdrug known as guinness and the land where horoscopes are correct more often than weather forecasts. Unfortunately you are correct regarding neighbours and not sharing that connect. Though if we did then we wouldn't be driven to seek commonalities and food for thought across our new virtual world. Not that I'm complaining, it's good to know there's so many interesting people out there that refuse to stay in Plato's cave. So to speak :-/

  126. Pysmythe

    Oh, I don't know... I thought that, too, at one time, until I looked into it a little further. The 'Alice' books are much more about logic and math (and chess), subjects Dodgson taught at Christ Church, than they are about inebriation of any kind, hookahs notwithstanding. I really don't think he was into any of that sort of thing, but of which it might have been less controversial for his reputation in the long-run if he had been, rather than some of his other leisure-time activities.

  127. Samuel Morrissey

    Yeah that old anxiety thing. As a young adult, my friends and I used to sit around smoking watching crap TV (bad weather days only!), every so often the conversation in the room would stop completely. I remember a few times feeling an urgent need to fill the silence with something, a feeling that everyone in the room was waiting exclusively for me to say something. At times it became nearly unbearable, and i seriously considered giving it up. Then the last time I had those feelings, I told the urgent voice in my head to STFU I wasn't going to say anything to break the silence. No longer agonising over what to say, I was then free to properly observe everyone else in the room. In each of their eyes I clearly saw the identical sideways glances, frowns of worry and concentration etc.

    I laughed out loud as my anxiety immediately dissolved (my friends were a little confused I think, and I left them to their silence shortly afterward). To see everyone experiencing the same self absorbed paranoiac feelings cured me of it completely.

  128. Pysmythe

    Much harder to pull off on a handful of hallucinogenic mushrooms!
    (lol)

  129. Samuel Morrissey

    Never had a problem with them, at all. We have some of the most potent varieties growing in the fields in Wales. Acid I had a few very 'ill' feeling trips where I wanted all the squiggly crap to just bog off and leave me alone - for 8+ hours, those were pretty tiring and unpleasant. Other than that, exclusively good experiences. That was teenage stuff though, I wouldn't say no now to a small amount of 'shrooms on an appropriate occasion but I have absolutely no voluntary urges or impetus to make them an object of any social event.

    One thing about strong hallucinogens, though. If you do them in a group, one member of the group will invariably have a 'bad trip' (and several other members will spend theirs comforting the afflicted), It seems almost like it is necessary for the combined experience to take place, like someone has to have a bad trip so everyone else can have a good one. That's probably just the 'shrooms talking though :)

  130. Pysmythe

    I only did hallucinogenics maybe 15 times, and I think I was that guy every time but one. I just didn't have the mental-makeup that allowed me to enjoy them. The one good trip I had, though, we were listening to The Grateful Dead, lol. How's that for a cliche, right?

  131. Samuel Morrissey

    Ahhh the Grateful Dead. Music always featured heavily for me, though nowadays you can get music that sounds like you're tripping when you're not. Not sure I'd want to listen to it tripping, mind...

    Good sounds, good feelings. They're a band beyond description, like Jehovah's favourite choir... The music never stopped!

    I wouldn't call strong hallucinogens pleasant, the intensity sort of prevents that. I think it can teach the most important thing about perception though, that it is ultimately flawed. We're all 'tripping' all the time on endorphins, andrenaline, dopamine etc. on the 'straight' trip. It can be just as misleading, even more so, as many tend to think that only a drug impaired mind makes perceptual errors.

  132. dewflirt

    Never much liked acid, always made me feel grimy and grubby afterwards. Mushies are better and Sam is right, Wales has a good supply, you have to be prepared to run from the farmers though. No mean feat when you're glassy eyed, hobbled by wellies and smiling like a Cheshire Cat. The only thing that really ruined a trip for me was staying indoors, never a good idea. Maybe you should have gone adventuring :)

  133. Pysmythe

    Oh, no kidding! And you could ask a cronic insomniac about perceptual errors, too, and how like an acid trip those stemming from that can seem.

    Right around the time I took my last trip I read Huxley's 'The Doors of Perception,' which, young though I was, helped me to bring an intellectual approach to the experiences that reduced my anxiety about even the memory of them, if that makes any sense.

  134. Pysmythe

    Now that you mention it, there was this one time when we did some and then all went down in the middle of the night to an old water-filled granite-quarry called the Green Hole (a legendary place for young people in those parts, in those days), and THAT time was actually pretty fun and laid-back, too... Hmm, memory can be an unreliable thing, and maybe I'm letting a surplus of bad experiences with that sort of drug overshadow what seems now to have only been one or two good ones.

  135. jaberwokky

    Unfortunately for me and the little fantasy I've inherited from a misinformed pop culture you're probably right, It would seem Mr Dodgson was a man of sobriety who time and gossip have tarred with the same brush as Coleridge, Stevenson et al. It's interesting because I think the Alice books far outshine all those classics written by guys that were tripping balls on a regular basis. Of course logic, math and chess would probably be a lot easier to bend and twist and still hold when you have a clear head ...

  136. windship

    Dangerous exposure of local farmers, dude! It's not like FARC ain't watching VICE on YouTube.

  137. Skunket

    dude.. Colombia doesn't even ACCEPT these plants as a national Product, as long as it is illegal no one can be bitchin' about stealing or trading strains, because its not an officially nationally worldwide product. be happy someone make's wise use of it. By the ways, it could be very usefull that they drop dutch seeds in colombia, maybe from there, there will grow new kinda strains.

  138. Terry "OldFox" Seale

    In law, and probably in science, evidence is information admissible under the relevant court and evidentiary "rules" to support or exculpate an assertion is true. Only when the judge, jury, or other "fact finder" in the common law systems, adopts a theory and makes a "holding" in a decree, the theory becomes proved, it becomes established, adopted, settled, adjudicated, fact. The "ruling" is the "proof," which by then can only be altered by introducing and proving a defect or infirmity of the facts in evidence, or alternatively showing an error or deviation from the "law" stare decisis.

    It's more problematic in science because there is no "finder of fact" and one must consider all the peer reviewed literature and decide which is the most credible. Of course in any human activity, "consensus" is usually arrived at by compromise and negotiation, so arguably a "scientific consensus," can never be more than an approximation or estimate of Truth.

  139. cyberfrank

    that seed collection might turn out to be pretty smart!

Leave a comment / review: