Losing God

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Losing God

The author of this deconversion series had been a closet atheist for some time and only a handful of people knew about this. He still attended church; he clapped and sang during worship along with everyone else. Outwardly nothing had changed but behind the mask he was frustrated. When the pastor asked if his words made sense what he really wanted to do was scream: "No they made absolutely no sense. I'm standing here in full-blown apostasy and your God doesn't have a clue."

Instead of receiving discipline what he got were bland pep talks from a deity who was as much in the dark concerning his true spiritual condition. Those events sum up his experience with the supernatural - a lot of good intentions with very disappointing results.

Mary was a member of his Christian fellowship group and she had muscular dystrophy and almost overnight she became completely blind. It shocked all of them... how could this happen? They were determined that this attack of the "enemy" would not stand since God worked everything for the good to those who loved him. The author firmly believed that Mary's suffering would be temporary. He believe God had given her this burden for a time so that her eventual healing would spark a revival on campus. Hundreds of souls would be saved as a result of this miracle.

What Satan meant for evil God would use for good. And so when Mary returned to school it was not by chance that one of the visiting speakers was hailed from a charismatic church. In fact he was the very first charismatic speaker invited to their group in years. Everything was aligning perfectly. After the service he prayed for Mary, they all did and incredibly enough she was healed.

Well okay she was still blind but the speaker insisted God was healing her at that very moment. It was now up to the Lord when he would complete his work. It could take a couple of days, weeks, months... but God is good right? How could God be healing Mary if she couldn't see? It's been 18 years since Mary was "healed" and her sight is no better than it was in 1996.

Watch the full documentary now (playlist)

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Ratings: 7.90/10 from 143 users.
  • Rob de Jong

    This is, except for the details, the story of my life.

    For a year, I am out of the church. I now have the age of 48 years and my family and friends are all still in the church. From strictly religious to disbelieve, for me, my family and friends a painful process which is still ongoing.

    They have difficulty to accept it and think that there is still hope.

    This documentary puts it very well in a row and am very happy with it.

    I will use it to show how I've come this far.
    Thanks....

  • Ramona

    ..no,pleace don't dare to think in this way. Behind the visible world,signs and miracles,ther is God of all creation. Have faith little boy,return back to God until is time. Now you are a victim of Satan. I'am sorry for you. Gad have merci on you and me!
    I'am God's servant,i don't need to see God's miracles,i know is there,is evrywhere. Is inside of me by the Holy Spirit. This is wat we need,God's spirit. I hope i could help you. God have merci on you and me.
    Bye.

  • Fabien L'Amour

    I can't help but wonder why he didn't turn to a different religion or philosophy instead of becoming an atheist. Indian religions generally seem a lot less vindictive than Abrahamic religions.

  • John Powers

    Religion can provide fellowship and a sense of hope ...The bad things will happen regardless of being in or our of any celestial belief system.
    The hope is purely from the benefits of having a positive mental attitude ..the placebo effect can actually work.
    I am a non celestial conformer myself ...

  • Doreen

    I agree with this, however not so much the author. He is still influenced by the church and religion. the Bible was written by man hundreds of years after the events. How could it possibly be true?
    Try spirituality--there's lots if info about it--it teaches nothing but love and compassion--not hell and damnation. Religion is all about fear and control.
    I don't believe God has anything to do with what happens to us--we have that choice.

  • Guest

    I found part of my path very similar to the author.

    I moved to a country which culture is very different from my origin, and for the fact to rebuild my social circle, I joined the local church's fellowship and was baptized, with the belief that able to find a job in this new land was god's plan and his miracle.

    I want to make clear that I'm not making this post to diminish Christianity. In fact, the moral teaching I received from the fellowship is still very valid to me up till today, and I appreciate that.

    I am the kind of person who is kind of like Thomas Jefferson who liked the morals of Jesus the Nazareth, but every time when the church members look down on other religions, give mission prayers to pray other countries will be saved in the name of gospel, and the healing of pressing people down on the ground, I found the statements the pastors made was rather bold and one-track minded. Former USA president Bush did claim war to the Middle-East in the name of God. So...what was that mission prayer all about?

    It wasn't until I attended an interesting seminar in religious studies hosted by local university (very neutral perspectives I found) that I realized religion was actually the enlightenment of one's inner self and consciousness. This consciousness is presented in all humans and could be re-established with the urge to pursue it. The consciousness was very much the ground works of all religions around the world, cutting out all the miracles and supernatural aspects in their doctrines.

    From my point of view, I think it is possible to live as a spiritual person without religion, to live to love and to be compassionate. I think it is equally important to know the true meaning of why there are religions. It was to provide a guideline for human morality. All the magics and miracles, no matter how many times people tell me, are still fluffs.

  • Janeen Clark

    and possible truth of god in any way would not have anything to do with the ideas of man.

  • jackal

    What is the point of changing from one religion to another, even if it is less "vindictive?"
    Indian "gods" are still god, and their form of worship requires a lot of candle burning, incense burning and pilgrimages and bathing in very polluted rivers.
    This is just as much nonsense as is the belief in the bible and JC, the second coming, etc.
    People who need religion have no faith in themselves. If you believe in evolution, then the beginning of your life is no different then in how it ends.

  • Fabien L'Amour

    The man seemed to deeply believe in the existence of God so a conversion to a different religion would have seemed less difficult for him. Admitting what you did for 25 years was absolutely futile and wrong is the hardest path.

  • Fabien L'Amour

    Obviously if you don't believe in God, you don't believe in Satan either. I doubt what you wrote will convince any Atheist to change their mind especially when you patronize them as little boys, claiming the morale high-ground.

  • ilike2game

    Why do they break up documentaries into little segments like that? So annoying...

  • Ramona

    This isn't big issue that i patronize you as a "little boy",don't be sensitive for it,if you take as seriously than i do believe that you are. But let's not argue like children.

    ..here we go. of course if God does not exist for you,Satan either. Look all around,ask youself. How about you? Who create you? Look at sky,earth,stars,moon,sun. Could a man or prophet,or wise man creat such as think????

  • Janeen Clark

    even though religions of the world cannot possibly be correct about what god is. it could be god is just entirely different than what the status quo ideas are.

  • Fabien L'Amour

    Why should I assume it was created by an external force? What if there is no beginning and no end, only transformation? If a God created the universe, what created God since we assume anything that exists needs a beginning?

  • ZarathustraSpeaks

    All absolute statements on the "truth" about "God" must assume the human mind operates on the same "realm" as the presumed "God" which would be contradictory in itself. To say "no God exist" is exactly the same in validity as saying I know a God exist. Both assume the minds ability to discern the truth in a "realm" beyond empirical knowledge. You are stating your "belief" in both cases.
    "Losing God" only means a person chooses to rely only on that which is scientifically observed. "Finding God" means choosing to believe in something greater than what can be proven scientifically. All religions are human attempts to organize these beliefs through dogmas which may have nothing to do with God. No matter what you believe or don't believe all actions by "believers and non-believers" are acts of humans not of "God". (Unless I'm wrong?)

  • ZarathustraSpeaks

    Could be you are correct. The "status quo" ideas are really "out there" :)

  • vcragain

    I think we are all searching for SOMETHING - we do not know what - that will make sense - when you 'have faith' (and I have been in that state at one point in my life) you have to keep bolstering the feelings with the prayers and singing etc because underneath it all you KNOW that you really do not know what this existence is all about, and you desperately want to feel SURE about things. The result for me is that I am now just examining my existence and wondering what on earth the point is of my lovely life when others are suffering so much and there is so much injustice, poverty and pain - I want to shout loud - WHY God do you do this to these poor people who cannot fight back and then I just feel it is useless. He is NOT listening IF HE/SHE is there at all ( something is there, but probably not in a form we could understand). So I just enjoy my little life and wait for my demise, hoping I DO NOT have to come back here again - what a ghastly thought - that is because my chances of having the same lucky life would be infinitesimal and I do not want to go thru what others go thru.
    I do what I can for others, and contribute to as many causes as I can afford to improve other lives, but really if 'having faith' is only that state of persuading yourself to cling to a lovely story with no real answers for anything except just that 'trust and obey' stuff, then count me out - if I find myself in a meeting with a deity after I die, I have a LOT of things to say to that deity, and he/she may not like it !!! I think believing in any particular religion is exactly like being in love with a particular person - you let the feelings keep you going until maybe one day you will realize that this person is not who you thought he/she was - the illusion of loveliness cannot be held on to at that point and you pull away. Very sad.

  • Ramona

    If there is transformation people could transform the water into wine. Right? Give an example of one thing that has transformation. Do you believe that everything that is under sun,is mining less?

  • Fabien L'Amour

    I meant transformation as in Nuclear fission and Nuclear fusion. Transformation
    of water into wine was never proven to have occurred except from
    writings in the bible. It's highly questionable to take anything
    written in the bible as a fact without outside sources that support it
    indeed happened. One would think that if anyone was able to transform
    water into wine, there would be several corroborating written sources for something so
    extraordinary.

    I don't have a clue if there is a meaning or not and I don't claim to have knowledge of something I cannot prove. I feel no shame in saying I don't know and I am very suspicious of anyone that claims to know because a voice or some kind of apparition told them.

  • Fabien L'Amour

    I think they weren't all made at the same time.

  • Fabien L'Amour

    It depends on the belief. Many religions state that you can't escape your destiny which would mean your path was defined by god so they would be acts of humans but predetermined by god.

  • bringmeredwine

    I never could successfully re-enact that whole changing water into wine thing.
    Cheers any way:)

  • Janeen Clark

    like for example if "reality" was some type of video game and something like a "soul" is connected to each consciousness , and outside of this videogame "beyond the game controller" where the "soul' type entities are they connect to be the experience of one player .which to this "god" seems like "their"playing consecutively even though to us "time" in this reality is like where all here at the same time. this is just a quick thought about how a god could possibly exist inside of a scientifically correct framework with no violations of the laws of physics or "divine intervention" . however it would explain certain scientific anomalies such as clairvoyance and other psi phenomenon for which a materialistic explanation cannot account for with merely a physical "Newtonian" worldview. however this is only a thought experiment that took me 5 secs to imagine and slightly longer to type., which makes me question why there are those that are only able to fathom either theism or atheism or the rest. the status quo ideas are a couple needles in a very large haystack of possibilities regarding such a topic.

  • awful_truth

    That would be a difficult task, however, maybe the problem is people accepting it as a literal story. If you read it as the parable it was intended, Jesus had a falling out with John the Baptist, as to who was the rightful spiritual leader.
    When Jesus and his followers created their 'new Jerusalem', everyone was allowed to drink wine at supper, unlike their forbearers, where only the high priests were allowed wine at supper; everyone else had to drink water, ergo water to wine. Something to consider since none of the 'miracles' interpretation came until much later in Christianity. (so yes, cheers!)

  • chip griffin

    you went through the movements, but never took thought or time with GOD, yet alone took a long look at the world. check out an ant, watch a bird, figure out water. most of all shut your mouth and read the bible. most go through what you are simply voicing. no easy task to find the truth, you must seek it like you seek life when faced with death.
    you talk a good game but your words are enepty. you believe your own bs.
    a few words a preachers tells you to say does nothing but prove you can repeat what you have heard. to find the truth is truly life saving. try a church that reads the bible, better yet stay home and read it from page one until the last page. until then turn off the camera and start the true search.
    a smart guy unlike you keeps his mouth shut until he is sure of what he has found and you will find others will find it without your words. the church has got and got rich and put down the truth years ago.

    one of two, time is so short, if you would have read the bible instead of making this film you just might have found it...

  • Fabien L'Amour

    I don't think the author will read the comments on here, you might want to post your message directly on youtube...

  • Fabien L'Amour

    I think it can be done if you add grapes to the water and let it ferment for a while. No warranty on the quality of the wine that will come out of it though! ;)

  • christopher ridgeway

    To me it just goes to show, if you think for too long about the supernatural, the magic peels away.

  • bringmeredwine

    I used to place my order every month or so with a very nice brewer down the street. 3$ a bottle for a lovely Merlot or anything else I wanted.
    For all our other posters, we Canadians pay about 14$ retail.
    I've had some pretty appalling wine in my day, brewed in Buddy's basement! Bottled as a gift from a well-meaning friend. Ugh!

  • bringmeredwine

    Maybe John shouldn't have argued with JC. Just look at how things worked out for him.
    Clink! :D

  • a_no_n

    Is that the same bible that thinks bats are birds, and that crop rotation is wrong?

  • a_no_n

    funny, i don't see it as Jesus and John having a falling out.

    If you look in Mark, Jesus is perfectly cool with being baptised by John, he doesn't really care, but by the time Matthew is written it looks a bit bad if Jesus has someone on earth superior to him, so there's a bit of jiggery pokery with the story to adjust it, which was carried on to a greater degree in Luke and John.

    if anyone fell out with John, it's the monks who wrote those last three Gospels.

  • Adam Young

    so you die and vanish into nothingness. only problem is nothing doesn't actually exist, everything on some level is something so there is no such a realm of nothing. not to say that God is a blue eyed ,white bearded giant sitting on a cloud somewhere above the american bible belt cause if other civilizations on other planets exist ( which seems completely likely ) then he/she/it would be their God too. i don't think the core of the bible is wrong or total fiction but i think it's not all there is to the story and any parent knows you don't talk adult understanding to a toddler cause they won't understand. so why the church assumes God would divulge all the knowledge of the universe onto his earth children.
    i don't think there is anything deluded in believing in Good and that striving to do good in all areas of your life. it sure better than believing that this is just a cosmic accident and nothing matters. only thing worse than that is making it your life's mission to make sure everybody else believes that to.

  • Fabien L'Amour

    I don't know if being an atheist is much worse than being a religious zealot. I haven't seen many atheists go berserk killing people screaming "I do this because I don't believe in God". Religious zealots on the other hand...

  • Fabien L'Amour

    lol what's worse, getting your head cut or being crucified? I'd pick the guillotine any day! ;) Can't say things worked out really good for Jesus either, maybe he shouldn't have argued with John. :P

  • bringmeredwine

    Baha! You got me on that one, mon ami.
    Salut!:D

  • Adam Young

    i know where your coming from. how many people have been lured into choosing to believe in some churches particular take on God only to find the nobody practicing what they preach. a history of one tribe butchering their neighbors in the name of their God doesn't sound like the good i was referring to. all i know is we are all in the dark with this thing we call life. if there is nothing after death then all this means nothing and i'm not going to know i'm dead anyway... but if self awareness in some form continues than maybe i should consider the likelihood that how i conducted my self on this plane of existence will have some bearing on where and what i find myself in the next. i was in the church but left a few years back and for every insane extremist killing in the name of Jesus there are 500 lambs who extend themselves to bring an active demonstrated love to planet earth. ( the majority of us fall in the middle ). to be continued. i got go for now.

  • chip griffin

    don't get down to hard on yourself glen, your in a long line of rich people or at least those willing to keep nice about the wrong stuff. just the other day God like productions, bowed down to obama, making a mega pin and perma banning me. that is ok, there are not enough 0's to buy me or my kind. it did kind of hurt my feelings. figured the loud mouths would have held out longer. that back bone is a useful thing to some, worthless to most.
    YEP, GLP MONK MAN TURNS--- PUNK MAN!--- obama buddy in the closet. they talked a good game, but no shows game day. wake up america, most wont show game day. YOU CAN'T SERVE TWO MASTERS.
    we have no real leaders. the web game is a good one i hear.
    GLP KISSED OBAMA BUTT BEFORE HE EVEN MADE THEM, LOL...

  • timbo

    very interesting. As a neutral sitting on the fence, I always like to ponder the possibilities: Is not being able to perceive 'god' with humanities current capacities of consciousness enough proof to disprove existence of a deity? what if god is beyond our senses? what if the faith in god develops subjectively in a person? or is consciousness itself god manifesting him/her/it self? Is god everything that lives? Personally, I have no proof of the existence of a god...and for that am not religious. But what would I know? why do we act as if we know everything and there are no mysteries? I certainly won't limit the universe to what I believe or what I can perceive through my senses. IMO atheists and the religious are in the same boat; just different ends. I prefer to be a believer in possibilities & probabilities: I say belief is good whatever your belief, humans will always believe in something, if not life wouldn't be a mystery. What if god has only been 'gone' (to the toilet, other side of the universe to attend matters?) 1 hour god time but 6000 years human time? o_O

  • bringmeredwine

    Great comment!

  • Jon

    chip griffin, that is exactly what I had in mind too. But the campaign to remove God online has been ongoing for years, and this is not the only documentary video available on site to help this poor cause.

    The arguments are pretty much repeated with a handful of likes and high approval ratings to simulate a bandwagon effect.

    A world without God is what we now call the environment. Yet despite the return to pagan tribute, praises and chants, the environment seems defiant of its fans and would be protectors.

  • socratesuk

    Slightly long-winded doc tbh. I don't see other animals going to church or the local mosque. Actually I would urge people to watch shows like "The Island with Bear Grylls". Actually humans are pretty weak and fragile. Nature has just blessed us with hands and a very curious mind that can imagine tools that might be of some use. Once we got fire and food supply in order it allowed our minds to explore complex questions which essentially brings us up to this point now. Most of us would struggle to last 1 week in the wild. (Some of us would even have difficulties killing another animal on ethical grounds) I think the idea that you die and return to nothingness is perfect. The universe is perfectly capable of creating new life (Why does it need some kind of heaven to maintain previous souls/memories?) I am pretty convinced there is no god/gods or heaven. The idea that there is some kind of man/women/creature/thing/voice sitting on a desk/chair somewhere making sure things run smoothly is almost laughable. (Think of all the preventable deaths that take place every day on planet earth?, then on top of this you have natural disease, natural disasters, man-made actions, such as murder, terrorism, war, genocide, car accidents and so on). Also lets say there was a god, he/she/it isn't going to be angry at you for not believing. If there is a god and its an intelligent super animal then it would surely understand our reasons for doubting its existence/powers....... As Epicurus put it so well over 2000 years ago (Before Jesus even popped into existence)

    Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
    Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
    Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
    Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

  • socratesuk

    Technically you have been dead before. Correct me..... If I am wrong but you haven't always existed? So we was all once in some kind of nothingness.

  • socratesuk

    Interesting post. Though I would argue that very rarely do people blow themselves up or kill others purely in the name of god or a religion. (There is often a lot of complex political/social-economic reasons as well).

  • socratesuk

    Interesting post.

  • socratesuk

    Good post.

  • socratesuk

    Very good point.

  • socratesuk

    Interesting post Adam.I would argue that life without god is still very meaningful tho. Most other animals have never read the Bible but just get on with their day to day duties. I think if you reduce life to some kind of freaky experiment on whether or not your a "good person worthy of heaven" totally kills everything that is interesting about this reality. All of us are on a fascinating journey of discovery. Our jobs change, our friends change, our religions change, our culture changes, our language changes. But I would like to think we are all united by death. The best films and books, all have a begging, middle and end. I am 99% convinced our life's have a ending. So we should make most of the middle part of the story.....which is what some refer to as LIFE.

  • jackal

    The Islamic Turks must be wondering what the hell happened to their Allah. Their greeting to each other "Wa_alaykumu_s-salam" -- God is good -- must seem a little hollow in light of all the deaths from the coal mining disaster. Ah, yes, blame it on that fallen angel, Satan.

  • jackal

    The problem is, you can not be neutral. I've been preached at so many times, that I'm told I know enough about the bible, about JC, about how god made the universe, that I am no longer an innocent, and therefore must accept, when my time comes, damnation. "Suffer the little children to come unto me." Why, because children don't know any better, so they are automatically saved. But, once you have the knowledge, you are up s**t creek if you don't accept JC. I wasn't brought up as a Catholic, but I know enough about their beliefs that I feel truly sorry for them, as I do for all people that take the bible literately, and religion seriously.

  • jackal

    You are clearly thinking much along my own belief in my own existense. If god is good or god is love, it has not shown much of either during the span of mankind.

  • jackal

    "From dust you are made, and to dust you shall return."
    Everything in between depends on you.
    A good quote from Epicurus.

  • socratesuk

    Thank you for sharing that quote, I did not know that was an Epicurus quote tho......?

  • over the edge

    while i am not positive i do not think Epicurus said that. i know Ecclesiastes 3:20 basically says that and so does Genesis 3:19. of course i am open to being corrected if i am wrong

  • AntiTheist666

    Epicurus was around long before the bibble lol.

  • timbo

    of course you can, why keep a religious perspective of your position as a neutral? if it turns out there was a vengeful god all along and I am a sinner or an infidel and will be cast down in a lake of fire for eternity then so be it, I'll try to convince this sort of god that it might do him good to see a psychiatrist but if it were a truly enlightened sort of god then I will hopefully qualify for salvation because I am faithful in what I believe and haven't resorted to a religious faith for fear of having to swim in a lake of fire for all of eternity and importantly have a respect in what others choose to believe

  • Fabien L'Amour

    I have no idea why you are replying that stuff to me. Wrong click?

  • Fabien L'Amour

    Good point, someone is really busy creating new souls if souls exist. Approximately 81 million every year based on current population growth. It's hard to figure where they come from if one says they come from reincarnation.

  • Fabien L'Amour

    My take is if a unique omnipotent omniscient god exists, he created good and evil and everything in between. Then the question is why? And of course, there is absolutely no way to prove one has the correct answer. I'll stick with 42 as my answer to life, the universe and everything

  • NewCovenant

    Truthfully, God The Almighty Creator of everything visible and invisible knows everything about every single one of His Creations, especially people! We are His Creation, and His LOVE, that is why He Created us to begin with, to have a relationship w/us. He is all powerful, all knowing and present everywhere at all times-Omnipotent, Omniscient Omni Present! We need to seek Him as much as He seeks after us!

  • chip griffin

    what really gets in my crawl is the one sided fire that burns for the brain dead. it is flashed on every TV screen and every reporter buys into the plot as to make it real, the teachers teach from the same side of the check that runs their lives, then you have the many that simply follow the many as the years slowly grind by, backed by the billions to sing, the song and dance.

    i watched a doc. about Africa and how a few water wells would have changed the problems ten fold, yet the government, Africa's that is, were too busy learning out of the country and our rich just turn the channel, is my guess. think what one million-aire could do with a single million in the way of wells! then what one billionaire could do! how cold has the world become? it wouldn't have even cost them a zero.

    well just look at the numbers of women that insert steal into themselves to kill the unborn and call it birth control. no, it is murder, plain and simple, legal kill shot on a grass root level. the money put behind it to ease the minds of the dead walking. stone cold folks.

    well then swing yourself way around and put your thoughts into a government that killed 3 thousand of their own, on national TV. 9-11. the day my world changed for forever. i was waiting on a coup from our military, which never came, then we followed it up by invading another country as the world watched, the government's of the world knew the truth and did nothing as millions died, being awaken in their sleep to be shot down in the dead of night, just as we will soon at the same hand. 2 billion bullets and no one answers a single question!!! just starter questions, yet we pay all the bills. it is never seen, from our checks to unsupervised, unaccountable hands, unaccountable to us that is, they will answer every question soon enough and after it is too late to repent.

    i watch Russia set the stage of the coming war, taking time to do their style of killing. waiting and watching for the anti christ and the false prophet to rise out of china to bring peace to the world. all the while hearing the american preachers twist it into fairy-tales of the vaccakine's POPES rise to shame. as if GOD would do himself in, in some strange twist of sound reasoning after all the century's. i don't think so,
    yea, sure they will make some bad choices, just keep you eyes on the ball and the mark of the beast out of your body and all be well. the mark by the way will be a digital chip injected through a needle, which already ties into Russia and China with the missing plane(777 or 370) of IBM pro's who sealed the deal with the wireless remote programmable device on world wide web of stuff., you being the stuff of matter, the rest being there for the busy bodies with free time on their hands.

    i can't believe we are able to watch it play out live on our TV's, the death of the dollar will be the game changer day. the day only the cash dollar is useable, no transactions of any other kind, is officially day one. hide and watch, just like 9-11 they know a day the dollar will die or make its last stand, and the birth into life our new world order. a single day the world changes and never goes back. all of them have already been bought and paid for, from our police, to the cable news lady, to the one just doing as they are told (TSA, IRS, FBI, CIA, DEPT OF THIS AND THAT, FEMA, ETC.). pray that isn't you. your eyes must be open and your hearing intact, if you know what i mean.

    we, the few who trust GOD and run and hide in plain sight, just follow the manna, as those with mosses did, it will look and feel much the same. pray for us all, that GOD has more mercy on us, than we do each other. there are much worse things to happen to a person other than death! it's the second death, that's the one to fear. wise men and women will walk to the guillotines with smiles on their faces.
    we are going home today, home to a world ruled by love, based on caring about others, we won't add one cost of the wreckage, as this storm blows through. those left will ADD the costs of want, or not wanting what was fair and just. from the lawyers to the judges to the doctors who showed the world who they WERE NOT. i can say whatever i want to about myself, but what i did was who I AM. we can not serve two masters.

    on an ending note, the anti christ will make obama sound like he never made it to college. his ability to twist words, those words being from the bible. making it say whatever he wishes, wishes is the right word, the truth will never change. know your bible, it will save your soul. not a sentence here and another there, but keep it in the context in which it was said, and you will not stumble. JESUS comes once from the clouds to gather us, we will not have to move to foreign shore, but stay put where the manna falls or follow the pillar of fire as he leads us in safety safely...remember he will come get you, you will not have to find him. under his power alone you will leave up into the clouds...

  • jackal

    I was referring to the quote by socratesuk above.

  • jackal

    Quite right. The actual words are: "Dust thou art, and unto dust thou shalt return" (Genesis 3:19)

  • Jon

    Problem is the "fails" pick up the pieces, glue them with PRIDE then make a SUCCESS story so others would lose faith and abort the race too. .

    Those who finish the race find God - who is source of Life. Meanwhile Man is stuck in choices of his own making, creating issues, reasons and desires for Destruction too.

  • Jon

    I am not sure why you even concern yourself about these if you understand the plan of God.

    In truth, it is no sin if that is the Will of God that it happens since nothing is really accidental.

    Jesus did agonize in the garden but gained determination to fulfill the Will of God. On the cross, he did say forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.
    .

  • Cellar Door

    Thanks for all your work. I watched this video to find out how another interracial 70's child developed. I was born in 71'. Although i passed judgement on you. I recanted, and now can allow you to live your life the way you decide to walk it. Myself never had a religion or faith. My parents told me I should find it on my own. I can say I'm still searching for that all encompassing religion . But I don't expect to find it. What I have found was another beautiful soul, on its ongoing journey. Thank you.

  • chip griffin

    no i understand this, still does it matter? the mark of the beast is their final goal. it is after everyone. the mark is the only thing that we must concern ourselves with as far as not getting it. it gets us to judgement, those who get the mark drop into hell upon death. they will use the same tools we do to get what they are after. i tell you GOD can and will protect those who are his...time is very short before the last blood moon of the four, one has pass and three to go. things begin to speed up and our government, working toward the plans of the evil one will enforce his laws. world wide. less than two years left...

  • Jon

    The beast got several heads that utter blasphemies against God. But these heads appear to fight each other, reason why I would not advocate taking sides in the conflict.

    Keeping meek and humble is what is expected of the faithful rather than taking a stance that may result to siding off from one head to another of the same beast.

    The Kingdom of God in inside you. God tests the hearts of men to remove any impure thoughts. The beast is heartless. While those who belong got God and His Kingdom in their hearts.

    In the order of priority, I would rather prepare for the Awful Horror than the beast. The sight of this Awful Horror is the pivotal event that will make men decide once and for all to take a positive stance or stand up and be counted.

  • dewflirt

    They started as amoeba souls and worked their way up the food chain - though I suspect some may have leapfrogged everything and gone straight to human, demand driven manufacturing ;)

  • Fabien L'Amour

    I'll have to agree with you that some humans have the thinking power of Protozoa, it must be true! :D

  • Fabien L'Amour

    If he loves us so much and wants to have a relationship with us, why does he communicate with only a chosen few and let these chosen few distort his message to the point that there are thousands of different religions?

  • Fabien L'Amour

    Maybe having God on their side helps them deal with their atrocious behavior. Giving the responsibility of their killing to a superior being helps them cope with the morale dilemna they face when they pull the trigger or hack someone to bits with a machete... Or demonizing the enemy as a tool of Satan gives them the right to kill at will since evil must be eradicated. I even remember a very powerful man that saw an Axis of Evil a few years ago...

  • NewCovenant

    There are diff. religions, due to The highest created being by God fell who is Lucifer. Now called satan or devil has only 1 MISSION on earth and that is to kill, steal and destroy what god LOVES the most-people! That is why there is so many religions, satan is clever and causes people to be confused through false religions so that everyone will miss out on the Awesomeness of God and His Love for us. Satan brings division, hate and even murder & even the "catholic DENOMINATION" killed people in the name of Jesus Christ-that was not Jesus, but satan!!!!!

  • Fabien L'Amour

    Mmm, And God sits and watches Satan create all these "false" religions in his name and lets Satan outmaneuver him to reap billions of souls that will be damned for eternity. Sounds like that omnipotent omniscient god is working hand in hand with Satan, another of his creation. Well if you interpretation is right that is.

  • Geoffrey Grekin

    @NewCovenant:disqus
    This garbage might have worked in the middle-ages, now within our age and times we need a little something called proof.
    Your God, sure sounds like the Christian god, but what deviation (if any) from the many different christian beliefs?

    What makes your religion so special, so true? so universal when it clearly isn't?
    Whats wrong with Hinduism?, or Islam? or Judaism? Are they're beliefs with their countless millions of followers (Islam religions being more populous than catholic religion) all misguided wrong themselves?
    etc..etc..etc

    I mean I could go on all day.
    But really, Holy Bible and scripture is not the avenue to soul-search or "God" -- it's written by people who filled an function in times where people had rudimentary understanding of our environment, life and existence.
    We have come a long way since then and have through scientific endeavors and advancements a better understand.

    There may be some kinda of divine being, or force in the universe, but you certainly won't get any closer to it if you followed blindly the words of holy men written 1500-1700 years ago

  • Achems_Razor

    godamn! everywhere you turn there are religee's! (YOUR) Ho of a god does not love anybody. I suggest you get some help for your insanity.

  • socratesuk

    He existed before Jesus even came along (which was my point)....Parts of the old testament apparently go back to 1350 BC. (Some suggest even further back....) My point is that a guy was saying some sensible rational things before Jesus even popped up.

  • socratesuk

    Interesting post, but essentially your dodging the question with comedy. Its a very important point. Also how do you know god is a he?....

  • socratesuk

    Someone?....or Something....? Nature is capable of creating new life and destroying old life. (To a certain degree our bodies are programmed to fail and eventually die, and were even made to be fully recycled). I think the idea of the soul is a dangerous one. Reincarnation is an interesting idea, but again I don't think there is any evidence to support it.

  • socratesuk

    Now that is a good point!. I would agree that thinking your "doing the right thing" because of x y z, clearly might help you go through with the act of violence. But if you look at most conflicts its mainly political. Palestinians don't launch rockets at Israel because of their religion, they do so because of the harsh treatment they have been given for the last 70 odd years.

  • free with god

    dear, you should see the arrivals series in the first. that series is good for changing. it's good to start researching. after watching
    that, you have to talk and ask your question from a muslim scientist.
    like scientists in iran, like mr 'Raefi pour'. This is the most important event in your
    life. so after your research you can choose : Laughing at god and Islam or
    other religions forever, or accept God and Islam or other religions..I'm sure
    that if you have a free and open mind you would choose God. But the truth
    is hard to find. many people will not understand thy truth. they don't want that you know the truth. They will mislead you from the
    path of truth.

  • NewCovenant

    Why then do BILLIONS of people BELIEVE in a CREATOR? That Jesus Christ is the Son of God Who died for our sins? Why is the Words of God (Bible) so accurate in history past, present and future?????????? There are as many scientist who believe including my husband who is a Dr. of physics! Every individual who believes has had an encounter with the TRUE AND LIVING CREATOR! Sorry that you think the way that you do.

  • NewCovenant

    Most of the commenters are watchdogs for this site to refute truth and promote propaganda for the NEW WORLD ORDER! Most of the doc. on this site that push EVILUTION and that there is no CREATOR are actually being done on purpose to use mind control on people, but most are aware of this. God has given us intellect and the human race is smart enough to see through the smoke and mirrors! The only ones who are fooled are those who keep slamming a GREAT MIGHTY AWESOME GOD WHO LOVES ALL-THE TRUE GOD and SOVEREIGN LORD JESUS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD!

  • NewCovenant

    GOD is much smarter than that. His plan for humanity far outweighs satins plans for humanity. God could NOT be God and Sovereign if He would let an evil spirit "out do" HIM. He isSovereign and has EVERYTHING under control. You can ask Him if He is real and see if God responds to you, then maybe you could understand why BILLIONS BELIEVE in a Majestic Loving CREATOR. Man does evil out of his own heart along w/submission to satan! That is the TRUTH whether you can believe it.

  • Achems_Razor

    YOU are proselytizing! not allowed!

    warning #1

  • NewCovenant

    I knew you were a watchdog! Please do not use evil writings yourself when commenting. We can all get along if we choose. I will not "proselytizing."

  • Fabien L'Amour

    You are the one that said there are "false religions", how could god let uninformed people try to worship him in those false religions and let them fall prey to Satan. It makes no sense whatsoever to me to punish people that are trying to worship but aren't as illuminated as you and picked the "false religion". Heck, if Satan is so clever, maybe you picked the wrong religion, how does one know?

  • Fabien L'Amour

    I don't know, english is my second language and I always saw god being referred to as he. I'll use "it" from now on though that will probably bring me quite a bit of heat from some. :)

    If one can't poke fun at the impossibility of proving or disproving the existence of God and explaining the meaning of life, the universe and everything, well life the universe and everything becomes less fun.

    Maybe the meaning of life is to have fun, who knows for sure. I hope that if there is a God, it likes jokes because sometimes it feels like a very big one was pulled on us. ;)

  • Fabien L'Amour

    You are far too logical to entertain a conversation with. :) In the absence of evidence the only logical answer is I don't know. It's far more fun to discuss with people that claim to have all the answers based on very weak "evidence". All I can answer to you is I agree and can't answer your question marks.

  • Fabien L'Amour

    The Israel conflict is probably the worst example possible since Jerusalem is considered a sacred city by 3 religions. Remove the sacred status of that city and there is very little left desirable about that territory. Semi-arid with limited resources, not really prime estate. Israel relies for about half of its water supply on unconventional water resources, including reclaimed water and desalination.

  • swanks

    I never took religion very seriously. I feel for people that invested time and effort into it only to come to this realization later.

  • chip griffin

    Jon, you might find it a problem to stay humble in the mist of death. from the way i read it, the four beast square off, two being good and two being bad and they gather the followers behind them. the bad vowing to kill the good if not willing to take the mark which is said to be forced on them. the only way out being, death! do we follow JESUS's example? or hope GOD will forgive and forget. he clearly says, he will not. you will have to make that call for yourself. i would start with asking myself these questions? why did DHS buy 2 billion bullets, the next question i would ask is, why have they refused to answer it for themselves, when asked? i have more questions, but start with these...

  • over the edge

    attack me personally i will be fine attack the site that has provided me with a valuable education i will let loose on your arse. not only warning #1 but the only warning you will get from me

  • Sieben Stern

    Lucifer is the light bringer. without him we would not be intelligent creatures, but animals in god's garden. all hail the light bringer!!!

  • Jonathan Naylor

    I thought it was because the very nature of the religion is to seek out the meek and helpless, to expose them to some form of hope in the midst of their darkest or most ignorant days, so that they can be free from the burden of responsibility that rests naturally upon us all. The very same reason that BILLIONS of people are addicted to mood altering drugs, and anything else that can distract them from reality.

  • Fabien L'Amour

    Here is something that makes no sense. Why would Jesus need to agonize to gain the determination to fulfill the Will of God when he is part of god as a member of the Trinity? Why does he need to talk to God when He is God?

  • Fabien L'Amour

    Ok, I'll take your suggestions. GOD, I ask you if you are real? Please provide me with irrefutable proof of your existence on this message board. Thanks.

  • saint666

    Well, forget all else, and just tell us "who created Lucifer (or Satan) in the first place? Who has allowed this satan turned Lucifer to perpetually exist and reign evil among gods all creation?"

    If your god (who, by your own admission above, is supposedly Omnipotent, Omniscient and Omnipresent) is the same being that created Lucifer then it is utterly dishonest on the part of your god to complain against Lucifer that he created, don't you think? Being Omniscient, god must have known that Lucifer would become Satan and lead billions of god's children to hell - and yet your god created Lucifer! Being omnipotent, god must have had the power to kill or annihilate satan and save his countless children from hell - and yet satan reigns and misleads perpetually! Being Omnipresent, god has the means to stop satan from committing any evil anywhere and everywhere - and yet evil is everywhere!!

    Is it possible to honestly conclude that the creator of devil is an intelligent and merciful god? Your god seems even to have an overwhelming shortage of good sense and rationality! If what is known as the bible is true, then this god creates and employs not only his own enemies, but also devises plots against himself! You tell us that nothing lives except in accordance with the express will of your god, and yet the satan does not die! Why?

  • Jack1952

    Why do billions believe in a God? Because most people have been taught since birth that God exists and that you must believe in him and serve him or face divine retribution. It's no accident that the children of Christians are usually Christians, Muslims children grow up to be Muslims and the children of Mormons remain Mormons when they are adults. It is the way they learned how to live, how to deal with their family, friends and neighbours on a social level. The fellowship in Christ exists because we all need our social contacts not because Christ is divine or even exists. It is about validation and being a part of something that, in one's perception, is special and self fulfilling. Take away the social aspect and most would drift away from their beliefs. Those who do leave their traditional religious affiliations, find new social contacts to fulfil that social need that is so much a part of our evolutionary development.

    Religious truth is subjective. It depends on where you live and how you were raised and your social network. To claim special insight and exclusionary access to truth has been the path many have chosen to give themselves the permission to commit atrocities that belie their claims of love and peace.

  • spikebat

    As a moderator of this site do you think it is acceptable, in spite of your views and opinions, to comment 'Your Ho of a god...' While being clear in the knowledge that it will cause offence to other users of the site? As you are so quick to 'moderate' others, perhaps you should moderate your own views while posting in your given role. I'm not a Christian btw, before you lower yourself to abusing me too.

  • NewCovenant

    I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW HOW YOU CAN LOSE GOD?

  • Jon

    which will make you wonder if the comments are really candid and not scripted by a few con artists. I swear some comments here are recycled arguments from older sites.

  • Jon

    all these exist in your head for now. You can label them as Anxieties.

    Jesus suffered much so when it is our turn, the yoke would be easy and burdens light.

    Refresh your Spirit with the Word of God and do not forget the lessons during the most trying moments of your life.

  • chip griffin

    2 billion bullets, 1200 gileatines are simply facts. do you care to answer what they will be used for? when we asked DHS, they refused to answer! why?
    who took down the towers on 9-11? looking to see your answers. the official story reads the towel heads. the Pentagon has every square inch covered by cameras, yet they released one 10 sec film, why? seems to me your having trouble dealing with the real world...

  • Fabien L'Amour

    Why the capital letters?

  • socratesuk

    With rational thinking?.......

  • socratesuk

    By the way your English is extremely good.
    Your raise some good points. But we must remember that this jokey god has sat by and done nothing whilst billions died of various diseases. (If anyone possibly knew the cure then that was god). I am not entirely sure I would be comfortable meeting up for a pint and a joke with God, knowing he/she/it is a mass-murderer?

  • socratesuk

    That's a fair point, but regardless of "who the land belonged to originally?". How are you going to feel? If a load of people show up with guns and force you out of your property or olive farm?.... Because they believe the land is theirs? What are you going to do? Throw some rocks? Start a riot? Maybe fire off a few shots? Blow yourself up? Start a terrorist group?.....Although religion plays a small role, actually the main issue is land ownership, and the reckless nature of some Israelis (by the way in most the vids on youtube Israeli soldiers are often close by, but don't intervene) Unless a Palestinian child throws a rock, and then all of a sudden the Israeli soldiers feel they have right to kill children.

  • Fabien L'Amour

    If there is only one god that is, there could be several. It seems to me it's a possibility because if there is only one, it has a multiple personalities problem. Or murder is absolutely hilarious to God, like kids that kill small animals and find it very funny.

  • Fabien L'Amour

    Yes, their land was taken and they were seriously wronged. What I meant is that Israel is the promised land to Zionists so God has a very big role in that conflict. Actually, the name of the country, Israel, comes from the Old Testament. Hard to find more religious than that.

  • socratesuk

    In which case this is not a god I want to believe in and worship, and If I do get to come close enough to such a being, I will do my best to land some good punches on such a being. Also ***I am not sure there can be more then one god. Traditionally gods used to be in control of various departments, i.e weather, anger, love and so on. I kind of like the idea that heaven is a busy office, with various gods running around photocopying various prayers and issues. But its ridiculous. If god ONE) only has certain powers, who came up with this system? ..... (Presumably an even higher being?) Also where does this stop. You can eventually end up having a god for every single thing. A god for pencils. A god for sunshine. A god for clouds. A god for rain. A god for snow. A god for air temperature. A god for grass. A god for plants. (Do each plant species get their own god?) Or is there just a god for plants?. Its a ridiculous system. Its difficult enough to accept the existence of ONE god, let alone several to a million. Also whats to suggest they get along with each other? I would hate to work at the office of gods for a week. I am assuming they have a boss they have to report to. (In which case we end up back at square one. I.E ONE GOD)

  • Fabien L'Amour

    With all the chaos in the universe, it's incredibly hard to explain how the whole thing could be under the control of a unique superior force with a plan. It's impossible to come with a definitive answer. I am only saying that multiple forces would ensure a less organized system than a single force.

  • San Pedro

    So funny to hear about people still believing, they will be saved by someone. You have everything you need to survive, prosper and heal yourself inside you. Dieties you call forth are still frameworks/beings/cells/ideas (call it whatever you want) inside you. Those around me that understand this message changed their life, and who cares if some diety changed their life. They are flowing with the universe, they are acting on their gut instinct and their life is great. So crusify my but change your life. THere is no rational thinking except for you recieve what you saw. Mind is a field and what you plant, grows.

  • Jon

    I got no issues dealing with those things. You do.

    Peace to all men of good will. As I have said, nothing is really accidental. These things happen because God allowed it to happen. That is if you have not lost God as the producer of this documentary had.

    Let us thank discus for the opportunity to comment. Hope we can make a documentary to visualize and animate our side from a different point of view.

    Have a nice day bud.

  • socratesuk

    Yes, which is why I said religion does play a small role. But the root reason could be anything. (It just happens to be a complex historical/religious land ownership issues) At the end of the day it doesn't matter what someone "supposed reason" is. Taking land off people by force is always going to end up in anger and violence. For example the riots in Turkey over that park.(It wasn't a religion/religious people that was pushing for the land to be built on, but economic growth/the government) So Palestinians don't launch rockets at the Israelis because they are not Muslims. (Actually Islam and Judaism share a lot in common) they do it out of injustice. I am not saying religion doesn't play a role, but the main reasons of hatred come out of the actions that people do. I.E bulldozing Palestinian olive farms and building Israeli settlements on what was a Palestinian business/home. ***That said I don't live there, and I can only go off what I have read online/seen in documentaries.***

  • Jon

    You got to make a touch down and find God first before all would make sense, as you would have gained wisdom and understanding.

    Solomon too suffered from this problem and confessed that he was nothing and did not know what to do. When Wisdom came to him and all problems were solved like eating peanuts. He prospered but not without God.

  • NX2

    YOU CAN'T, BECAUSE THERE IS NONE ?

  • chip griffin

    yep, that would be nice, but i don't see that happening. the teams have picked their players, now we wait for them to take the field. real nice talking with you. helps me to know others are out here not buying into the crap!!! hang in there all the way until the last day, chip.

  • NX2

    A fine education indeed. Now, about the punctuation...*grin*

  • Fabien L'Amour

    That explained absolutely nothing. Either Jesus is part of God or he isn't. If he is, he needs to do nothing to fulfill the Will of God as it is his will. If he isn't, the Trinity is not true.

  • Jon

    You mean it does not help your situation. You got no idea of what God is or what those who know God are talking about.

    Only the Son knows the Father because the Father lives in him and they are ONE, Also, it is the Holy Spirit that would reveal the Truth about God.

    If you are neither a Son doing the Will of the Father nor a person led by the Holy Spirit, then how can you even come close to becoming a first hand witness of God the Father?

  • Fabien L'Amour

    Where did you get that information? Do you know God, are you a Son doing the Will of the Father or a person led by the Holy Spirit?

  • Achems_Razor

    Actually I had it toned down. I could and should of used "a cruel, spiteful, vengeful, jealous and unbearable God" so says Noble Laureate Prof. Richard Dawkins.

  • dekay49

    @NewCovenant:disqus You want to know how you can lose god, and I want to know how you can find him/her, since there has never been ANY evidence presented that he/she exists? But, since we are talking in hypotheticals here, according to this bible that you seem so fond of shoving in everyone's face, this god character is directly responsible for the death of 2,476,636 people. That other fictitious character known as satan was only responsible for 10. Can't you just feel the love? There is something radically wrong with anyone who would want to worship such a creature who claims to be the one who created evil, and delights in the smell of burning flesh. That's your god, and don't even get me started on his/her perverse obsession for foreskins. Keep your god to yourself and let the rest of the world deal with reality. If you would be so kind as to send me your address, I will gladly send you a hammer and a bag of sand. If you need instructions on how to use them, please contact me and I will be more than happy to instruct you.

  • Jon

    Only the Father knows who are his children, it is God's Will that the children do.

    if you cannot find God then why argue with some idea that you have no proof exist?

  • meh

    in certain contexts i am also a closet atheist; one who goes to church on required occasions, claps, sings, smiles and pretends. the reality of my lack of belief would cause damage and pain to my family that i do not currently wish to impose. at any rate, thanks for sharing. it helps. i too once believed sincerely and passionately... the delusion was, and is, simply not sustainable.

  • Fabien L'Amour

    Must be the pictures. :) lol just noticed the link under the word F**k, funny stuff my friend.

  • Fabien L'Amour

    Am only asking questions, not having an argument. You provide me with information about God but I am asking where you get that information.

    You are telling me you know the Will of God, that's serious knowledge, it would be interesting to all to know how you obtained that knowledge.

  • Jon

    You answer the questions you want me to discuss, There is no way I can share my knowledge of Christ or God. You got the Gospels for that, it is called the Way of the Lord, Scriptures are written and published, and revised periodically in the most popular language versions.

    Some say publishing offers a way to hedge against the time when an attempt to alter and change the Word would happen. So maybe if you thirst for the TRUTH, look for older hardware revisions. I feel the e-books do the work just fine for now, and there are many versions to compare if that is your thing.

    Hope you find what you are looking for successfully. Find God and find Life.

  • Jon

    You should say that salvation came from ONE man, Jesus Christ. This helps a lot in the choice. It boils down to a choice of rejection or faith and belief in Jesus.

    Religions may divide the faithful but there is no way to alter the story of Salvation. All disciples of Christ only got 1 Master. Unlike in the story of Israel where the Master connotes commanding slaves or servants, Mastery of the WORD means superiority in dealing with what is necessary to gain God's favor.

    Just like in art, the master teaches the discipline to his students. The Master is most skillful and knowledgeable and after the lessons are done and students pass the QUALITY testing, then they too shall be living Witnesses of the Word.

    Religions meanwhile offers shepherding that may be good or bad; success or failure. God gave us a New Covenant in the person of Jesus so we can eliminate the trouble of having to pass through the man made bureaucracy and self imposed authorities who happen to be the cause of Jesus' death on the cross too.

  • Loretty Hanze

    Awesome. Well put Dekay49

  • Fabien L'Amour

    I've seen many say their belief is the TRUTH. No idea if capital letters makes it more true but with so many conflicting versions, I don't feel I am competent to declare any of them the TRUTH. I am skeptical of anyone that declares to know they found the TRUTH.

  • a_no_n

    The vast majority of Europe was converted to christianity at the point of a sword by the Roman Empire!

    the scandinavians and the Lithuanians who held on to paganism for the longest were hunted down and brutally murdered by Christians in a purge that lasted hundreds of years and was enacted against everyone, even other Christians.

    Also the bible is pretty much useless as an historical document...just about every one of it's claims are provably false.

    if you'd like to know what these falsehoods, lies, embellishments and mistakes in the bible are i would be happy to list them for you.

    as an intelligent free thinking christian i challenge you to face the inaccuracies of your book!

  • a_no_n

    nah i don't buy that.

    The old testament is basicly just a huge list of Gods cock up's and his inability to accept responsibility for them.

    If god has everything under control all the time, then how did he lose control and need to bring the flood about?

    If this world with it's Boko Harams, it's earthquakes and it's famines is all under Gods control, then God is either evil or he doesn't care.

    Also, Satan isn't in the bible, he is a medieval invention stolen from the old testament...i suggest you read your bible!

    Billions of people believe in Shiva too...

  • a_no_n

    well, hopefully by getting someone who claims to know to stop talking b0llocks for five minutes and answer a straight question.

  • a_no_n

    I get the overriding impression that tentacles are involved somewhere.

  • Jon

    Funny I never thought the term to be a good conversation piece. But if you read the Gospels, Jesus came to bear witness to the t r u t h, and this is exactly what Pilate asked Jesus during the trial, "What is Truth?" Yet he remained silent and did not utter a word.

    Many times I watch cheers in the public stadium, They banner "John 8:32". Wonder what that is all about? Maybe if you stop talking and take time out to study so you would learn why.

  • a_no_n

    if you open your mind too much your brain falls out.

  • a_no_n

    Careful mate, one of the teddies you just threw out of your pram almost hit me on the head.

    I suggest you take those claims up with the Mods.

    I've been on TDF for quite a few years now, i've argued with and alongside hundreds of people and not a single one of them has ever been a paid shill.

    to be honest, the fact that you so readily cry out shill only shows me the weakness of your own arguments.

    if you had any valid arguments you would be too busy properly representing yourself to be throwing ad hominems about.
    it looks like you have a lot of growing up to do before you're ready for any serious debate about the fundamentals of existence.

  • a_no_n

    i'm sorry but that's just not true.

    In the old testament God does little else except demand wanton rape and slaughter in his name.

    His idea of taking responsibility for his mistakes comes in the form of a giant flood to wipe out all life on earth.

    What loving God would do such a thing? was every baby kitten and pony in the world evil?
    if they were then surely they became evil by Gods own design?

    Even in Matthew (15:27) Jesus is shown to have attitudes that today would be seen as Xenophobic. He refuses to cure a young peasant womans child because she isn't an israelite.

    the God of the bible is an unflinching psychopath, a ranting lunatic with an ego so out of control that it cannot handle anything except utter compliance from the people it refuses to prove it's existence to.

    If you ask me, the God of the bible is one of the most vile and reprehensible characters in all of literature.

  • a_no_n

    So God made Jesus to create the church and get rid of Beaurocracy.

    At what point are you ready to admit that he failed in that task?

  • Fabien L'Amour

    "Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free". Just more people claiming to have found the truth and making an attempt at publicity for their religion.

  • dewflirt

    Quite easily I expect. I once lost a ring in a bag of potatoes, never saw it again.

  • Jon

    you seem to claim a lot of bs. The seat of Roman government left Rome as soon as Constantine became emperor. Christianity was thought to have died in the old city after barbarians cut it off from Constantinople.

    So this and most of your other inputs are without basis. Instead of posting nonsense, just watch documentaries that ultimately fill what is mosty IGNORED by you.

  • Jon

    Well, if you want to CHEAT your way to the Truth, it cannot be done. But at least you are honest and you complain because you have not even started to work to gain Truth.

    Catholics have alternate ways to gain the Holy Spirit. I find those sourced or inspired by the. Blessed Virgin Mary an improvement from just reading the gospels. But you need to devote much time in prayer that summons the resources of the spiritual kingdom.

    Anyway this is OT. Nice to reply to you chap.Remember that only the Spirit can know about itself. Some things are better left unsaid, As the Nike ad goes, just do it.

  • NX2

    hmm, okay, and now i'll be searching for those pictures were jesus is smiling? :)

  • NX2

    Now, that's a weird remark. Does that presume a primacy of consciousness? You, a non materialist? I would never have thought so...:)

  • Fabien L'Amour

    I googled Smiling Jesus, lots of drawings but they all are of a white man so probably not historically accurate... Maybe she meant you smiled like the fake images of the white Jesus she got presented by the Roman Catholic Church.

  • NX2

    Oh, now i feel like a fake picture...snif...there goes my world view. :)
    Historically accurate? So, there really was one? :)

  • Fabien L'Amour

    There probably was a man preaching during that period of time. Hard to pinpoint what is real with so little written evidence outside the bible.

  • awful_truth

    I guess the point at hand is whether or not people wish to believe in miraculous conception, raising the dead, walking on water, turning water to wine, and feeding thousands with a couple of fish and a loaf of bread. It is very clear in 3 of the 4 gospels that Jesus was crucified a week after he and his followers drove the moneychangers (goldsmiths) out of the temple. (how dare you turn my father's house into a shop) Since it took 325 years after the fact to decide which books would define Christianity, (27 in total) there is a lot of room for interpretation, especially when those who translated them took liberties as well. (thou shall not murder, not kill) Note: I don't question the bible has a lot of wisdom in it, I just question the wisdom of those who are interpreting it! Nice to hear from you a_no_n.

  • awful_truth

    Yeah, apparently things didn't work out very well for either of them, or many of their followers. (Peter, Paul, etc) That tends to happen a lot when you mess with people in power, and their money. ("The more things change, the more they stay the same") Take care!

  • a_no_n

    it makes the assumption that the mind and the brain are the same...Though i am aware of contradictory evidence that suggests some people have the ability to keep one in their head and the other in their trousers. :)

  • a_no_n

    Yes but the Greeks (and the rest of the world) continued refer to them as the Romans...your pedantic argument invalidates nothing that i have said.

    Also the Goths were Christians. They weren't an invading army of Pagans, they were migrating Christians moving away from territory that was being invaded by Turks and Huns, they were led by Aleric, who had served in the Christian armies of Rome and led his people to Rome to join the empire, not to take it apart.

    You're confusing the Goths with the Gauls who sacked Rome in 390BC under Brennus who famously stated "woe to the vanquished" as he added his sword to the scales.

    your grasp of history is laughable to say the least...i presume you learnt it from a book with cartoon drawings in it.

  • a_no_n

    Thank you, glad to see you're keeping true to form :)

  • bringmeredwine

    Ain't that the truth!:D

  • NX2

    Ah...that would be double pleasure?

  • NX2

    Well, I can't say anything for sure, but i feel as if there wasn't any jesus at all. I'm sure there were many preaching at the time. How many prophets does the bible count? Or perhaps there was one man in particular, but how much was he akin to be the jesus as we know today? It seems like a figure superimposed with a lot of 'pagan' symbolism.

  • Jon

    Ahem - what history are you talking about? This topic is not about history at all. You are claiming so much false and misleading stuff. No wonder you claim to be blissfully out of the race for the Truth.

    Maybe you can refer to Peter Weller's Engineering an Empire if not an encyclopedia or wiki for FACTS and not OPINIONS or hearsay. But I strongly doubt that you fail to communicate properly.

    This post is OT for me. I don't agree with the documentary and have said enough. Bye.

  • NX2

    If he's omnipresent, then where exactly do we seek?

  • a_no_n

    You asked why billions believe, and I told you. Because they were forced to believe on pain of death and torture.

    How is history not relevant?

    If you'd care to point out exactly what i've gotten wrong i'd be more than happy to oblige you...but saying i'm wrong and then not providing a reason for it isn't really an argument...it's a childish temper tantrum because you're not getting your own way.

  • a_no_n

    only if the individual is skilled in the use of both. ;)

  • Jon

    See, you have a flaw in communications. I am not the one who posted that comment. That is enough reason for me to stop wasting time discussing with you since it won't prosper. Learn to read, listen and study rather than think aloud by posting silly ideas you get to draw from poor memory, false notions or wrong understanding.

  • Fabien L'Amour

    I have no idea how many prophets are in the bible. My opinion is that Jesus as described in the bible probably never existed. But I think there was probably a preacher that roamed the area with a following during the era. What he really did and said will remain a mystery forever unless some historical evidence emerges from some cave or buried temple.

  • Paul Herman

    I've experienced God on various occasions. When I first met God I was not in earnest pursuit of God. Actually I was an unbeliever. What I was in pursuit of that first time was a way to help people. Love was my motivation and compassion for all the innocent suffering, for everyone's suffering. The love I experienced from God has been so powerful and penetrating, I've never had to struggle with the matter of faith. I simply know God exists. I know the next world exists and I know that my actions are the main determinate of my happiness in this life and the next. God has given me the freedom and both God and others that I love have given me the impetus to use my freedom responsibly.

  • keli138

    The powerful penetrating you experienced is just gas. You can take something for that.

  • a_no_n

    Does it matter if you asked it if you're trying to support it? no, of course it doesn't.

    Why am i wrong?

    I've given you quotes from your own stupid bible to make my arguments, you've done nothing except rubbish what i've said without so much as an explaination why.

    Without an explanation you're just chucking out childish insults.

    Please explain to me why my arguments are so flawed..then perhaps you'll actually have an argument rather than a tantrum..

  • Paul Herman

    What makes you say that Keli?

  • AntiTheist666

    Indeed there were many wise men around before Jesus was born. Epicurus was one of the finest and most eloquent. Sadly only a few fragments and letters remain of his over 300 written works. He suffered from kidney stones and died in 270 BC aged 72. Knowing his fate he wrote to Idomeneus

    “I have written this letter to you on a happy day to me, which is also the last day of my life. For I have been attacked by a painful inability to urinate, and also dysentery, so violent that nothing can be added to the violence of my sufferings. But the cheerfulness of my mind, which comes from the recollection of all my philosophical contemplation, counterbalances all these afflictions. And I beg you to take care of the children of Metrodorus, in a manner worthy of the devotion shown by the young man to me, and to philosophy.”

    Source: Wikipedia

  • robert

    This film is so true if there is a God its is game with people's life but also God is from the Bible and man wrote the Bible but the Bible also says don't Belive man's word mean humans but a man wrote the Bible so why Belive in the Bible also the devil was once a angel beside God and other angels in a time of No sin or sinful thoughts..God sent Satan and his followers to a lake of fire we now call hell cause he was jelouse of God and try to be greater then him so whouldent this be a sin in it's self when at this time there was No devil so there was No sin or sinful thought so how does this happen...

  • fran coady

    don't worry the jews will find it--or lie about it. netenyahu tried telling pope francis, jesus spoke in hebrew! the pope set him straight, so then he said "well, he knew hebrew." prove what he knew, liar. good luck.

  • Fabien L'Amour

    lol ok, dunno what the suppositions of 2 men 2000 years after the fact prove or disprove or bring that is new evidence to confirm Jesus existed as described in the bible (if that conversation even took place) Do you have any source I can read or you heard that from someone?

  • Markus Badenhorst

    Dear dekay49

    Seems you have got it all figured out. I assume you are a
    evolutionist? I'm not going to spend time defending the Gospel when you have
    already made it clear that you don't give a crap about it. Instead, I would
    like you to address me then on what do you believe? That we are descendants of
    a fish that was chased by a bigger fish into stagnant water and then developed
    the ability to breathe outside water when lungs developed due to natural
    selection and mutations? Maybe in your messed up head this still seems
    reasonable, so let me continue. Say this is true (scientist claim of
    environmental pressure leading to a fish leaving water), we developed into a 4
    legged fish/reptile creature. Fast-forward a few million years and we were
    flesh eating carnivores the size of a modern cat- until dinosaurs evolved.
    Being challenged by the size of dinosaurs we shrank back to little rat-like
    creatures due to mutations and natural selection... If you are such a strong
    atheist, I'm sure you know the rest of the story. So my friend, now I say to
    you, keep your bag of fiction to yourself and stop talking about things that
    are beyond your brain capacity. Please contact me if you need guidance back to
    reality.

    Regards
    Markus

  • Robert

    God had a Son that he sent to earth with a special mission and purpose. The essence of God's plan was to send his first begotten Son to Earth to be our Savior if we would accept Him an allow Him to pay for our sins. From all the evidence we have, he was endowed with special powers to heal and defeat death itself. Evidently, it is perfectly fair if somebody has a debt that they can't pay, to allow a kind benefactor (a Savior) to pay that debt. Jesus found out that he had no other way to pay our debt than to take the punishment required for that sin in order to dispense perfect justice. God must abide with perfect justice in order to be a perfect God.

    Perfect mercy is a concept that most atheists do not grasp. A perfect God must also provide perfect Mercy. How does perfect mercy work? You will need to pray for help with that! Part of the answer is that God has commanded us to forgive everybody who offends us. Essentially, we could throw stones first (exact our own justice) only if we are without sin; no man but one can make that claim. God said that all else have sinned save Jesus Christ alone.

  • Robert

    Simply put, there is no proof and never will be any undeniable proof. The war in Heaven resulted in 1/3 of the angels in Heaven being cast out onto the Earth where we now live. God knows that if he gave all his powers to Satan, then the destroyer would tear down all of God's Creations. There would be no way to take them back. He showed his true colors during the war. God is not stupid. Any pleading by Satan for any of God's powers will never given and he will never be trusted. On this earth, we must live by faith. Faith means, among other things, that we must have the hope that there is a Perfect God and without us waring with the hope that He does not exist, we will try to obey Him without knowing if he really exists.. God wants to know if we have a destructive nature like the devils or a God like nature. Why? Because he has literally promised to give us all that he hath. He has sent us to this Earth to test us, and will throw challenges our way in life and dreams to let us prove our nature to ourselves. It will not be a surprise to us if we fail the test that shows we have a God like nature. The final judgement will allow us to recall our true nature perfectly. It will reveal what we hope for! God will have shown us who we really are and what we hope for. Will we be granted all that God hath or fail to win His trust. He will know if trust can be granted and we will see right in his determination.

  • Eric Lawson

    I was a closet Atheist for a very long time. There is no God this deity is man made from the get go!! A judge for the rich and powerful. Of the day. Some kind of guide for the masses. God does not intervene ever. Why because there is no God !! How many more will be taken advantage of by this Mumbo Jumbo!! Please give some real proof that there is a superior creature. Any kind of proof. Tangible evidence. This is a great beginning. This video should be shown to all high school students !! Peace!!!

  • Eric Lawson

    I am now Convinced that religion is a forum of Mental illness!!!Peace

  • Eric Lawson

    Mental illness Paul!!

  • Eric Lawson

    Right on !!

  • Jon

    Chip the beast is not a good thing. There is infighting among the many heads but the effect is to make the beast stronger and more destructive.

    There is another (smaller) beast but it operates within the ecclesiastical or clerical level. Is this the issue that you wish to bring out?

    People just do not realize this but the Gospels show that the pivotal sign of the end times is the discovery of the Awful Horror rather than the mark of the beast. The beast has been there for quite some time and it is among the reasons for the troubles and persecution of the faith that Jesus cautioned about.

  • chip griffin

    i will tell you this, we are days away! do not take the mark of the beast. cling to life and what is good a day comes when all will be glad who did. we now cross the veil one at a time...

  • Jon

    Remember that all of these beastly creatures feed on the Awful Horror.. When people realize the issues then that would lead to the day of the Lord.

  • chip griffin

    do you care to explain what you mean?

  • Jon

    In a way, realize that once the Awful Horror is discovered, all these creatures would come crashing down. The Kingdom of God is at hand... read the gospels for reference.

  • Jon

    Getting tagged is a property management tool to keep track of the herd while they roam in pasture. The mark of the beast works the same way. Humans are marked just like cattle (beast) to help determine its owner and use the info in courts to settle disputes.

    But are men beasts?

  • Jon

    I cant do that here without writing sizable volumes that can be annoying and off topic. But let me give you some tips.

    All four gospels mention the Awful Horror. But how come these are not specific about the mark of the beast?

    The good news is the Kingdom of God and its arrival is what we pray for in the Lord's prayer. Let us not get lost or forget that God was clear about the events that will be taking place. It is the cross we got to carry. There is no excuse for anyone to insist on blaming God for the sorrow and pain of human history. Whoever does that fail to study Scriptures.

    But the trials and suffering of the end times can be cut short. A lot of human lives can be saved by the Truth. Once we see the Awful Horror in a place where it should not be then that would be like pinpointing the issues clearly.

    You see half the WORK is diagnosing the issues and defining the cause clearly; In our case the problem is the Awful Horror. The other half is to offer specific solutions for foreseeable results; The solution is the Kingdom of God.

  • chip griffin

    NO, and a war is coming when they try to mark me...

  • chip griffin

    you are a smart person and one who should be leading these foolish who have gone astray. the time has come to decide which road your going to take and take it, don't look back everyone had a running start...

  • Syrinx

    It is a form of mental illness, as well as a forum for the mentally ill ;)

  • Syrinx

    Real Gods don't have sons. The Biblical god is just as absurd and is just as much mythology as Greek, Roman and Egyptian and other man made gods.

  • Mark Filby

    I agree that mainstream religion is total disinformation and my search started with 5 years research and a trip to Egypt. I like many burnt my old bible and had a burning ceremony to end the quest. Something was always nagging in the back of my mind that the version we get from the money junkie churches was amiss. I found hidden meanings dot com. The 'church' folk hate him because he brings science and religion together without the pious fraud. Initially I thought Bill was one twisted loon, but when I actually took the time to listen and not try to mock, he made logical sense, considering the topic. Most religious folks do not realise said bible is a Greek Mystery book and it advises the reader it is all allegorical, ergo, if you imagine it is the word of Gawd you will kill yourself taking what is written by the letter, which it actually warns the reader, because it is a spiritual book. IF, you care to find God, I suggest at least checking out some of his 700 vids on YT. Even you atheists will laugh and smile during Bill's vids. He is very controversial and backs up what he says with documentation. You can even get a copy of the documentation. I am not associated with any church or religion. Do yourself and the world a favour and at least have a look. Good luck.

  • jackmax

    Considering the bible is not a true historic account of any time, how could one think that the truth can be obtained by it?

  • K Sean Proudler

    If one finds encoded information within the bible, such as that of which I have revealed, this at the very least makes it clear that a power that is of enormous scale exists. Such a power is what is required to have encoded information appear in the bible of today despite translations haven taken place in the first place.

  • over the edge

    Can you explain why Moby Dick shows many predictions when an ELS analysis is performed on it? Or why when others perform an analysis on the bible they get lines like "
    "The Bible Code is a silly, dumb, fake, false, evil, nasty, dismal fraud and snake-oil hoax."?

  • K Sean Proudler

    Yes. If you take the logical ELS search method, and then surround it with absolute garbage, it is then that you can find whatever you would want to find, and you can find it anywhere you choose to find it. All this is due to the ELS search method having been cleverly sandwiched between pure trash.

    Even though the true code language and this bogus code language that you have referred to are two different code languages, the public immediately thinks that they are one in the same due to the ELS search method appearing in both cases. Yet at the same time the public is aware of the fact that if you have two cars, and each car has 4 wheels, that does not mean that if one car is pure trash then the other car must be pure trash as well, because both cars have 4 wheels.

    However, when it comes to bible codes, that is exactly the way people think.

  • Samuel Morrissey

    'If you take the logical ELS search method, and then surround it with absolute garbage, it is then that you can find whatever you would want to find, and you can find it anywhere you choose to find it'

    how can you tell the difference then?

  • K Sean Proudler

    For one thing, the true bible code language only allows you to find what was truly encoded, and that is all, thus your findings are limited. Therefore, if you attempt to find whatever you would choose to find, then time and time again you just come to another dead end.

    Also, a scientific statistical analysis would do the trick. But, due to pure assumption, people have concluded that the true code language is bogus, and do so simply because the bogus code language was proven to be bogus.

    This foolish conclusion was also drawn by many statistical analysis specialists who have a Ph.D. of one kind or another. All requests given to have the true code language statistically analyzed were instantly rejected by such people.

    The best response that I received was from a professor at UoT's Department of Mathematics in Toronto Canada, a professor who had also participated in writing the paper "Solving the Bible Code Puzzle". I said that his help could possibly save millions of lives. His response was "I'm not interested in saving millions of lives.". This was the best response that I had received over the many years of making statistical analysis requests.

  • Samuel Morrissey

    Firstly, your belief in the truth of 'the bible code' is also a pure assumption, unless you have performed your own statistical analysis, or have honestly attempted to find 'bogus codes' in the same literature and can give good reason for the 'bogus codes' that others have found in it somehow.

    Secondly you state that the code is so true it survives translation not to mention addition subtraction and modification, so I expect to see equivalent analysis showing the same truth on the old AND new testament from the earliest recorded example to the latest.

    Can you provide your research for analysis?

  • AlienDan

    Oh not orre of this "bible code" bullshit. Do you know how many bible codes there have been? that contradict each other. You could probably find a code in a Richard dawkins book if you looked hard enough and made certain things fit certain meanings. Also jesus is a myth, like krishna, mithras, horus, etc. he has no historical evidence that he was real.

  • K Sean Proudler

    As I have implied before hand, beliefs are of absolutely no interest to me. Thus I do not believe in 'the bible code'. I simply let the encoded information that is revealed, speak for itself.

    After all, one need only practice a belief if one is located at a distance from the truth, and thus one is located within the zone of less than truth. Yet many people accept beliefs and stick to those beliefs, and thus in turn they stick to being located at a distance from the truth. I therefore classify such people as being completely insane people, for they have chosen to only accept less than truth, and do so by accepting only a belief. To think that it is sane to place the value of less than truth above the value of truth itself, is an act of pure madness.

    You said... "Secondly you state that the code is so true it survives translation not to mention addition subtraction and modification, so I expect to see equivalent analysis showing the same truth on the old AND new testament from the earliest recorded example to the latest.".

    Your statement is illogical.

    First of all, I did not say that it survives translations. What I am saying is that it surpasses them.

    In truth, due to the translations, additions, subtractions, and modifications, this guarantees 100% that this specific code language found within the KJV, will be 100 % ineffective in earlier versions or any other versions other than the KJV.

  • Sam Warne

    There is a great deal about this 'de-conversion' experience that echoes my own and rings true with me. I do however think it is sad that this individual's loss of faith has completely detached him from the concept of spirituality and the supernatural. At no point through my gradual loss of faith and disillusionment with organised religion have I felt like rejecting the idea of a universal power that is beyond absolute human comprehension. Call it what you will, but what all religion, however primitive- along with many other uniquely human constructs serves as evidence for, is that hardwired into our being is the assumption of something that operates on a higher plane to that which we normally have access to and control over.
    This is the great mystery, and to switch off to this is to accept a blissfully ignorant existence, where nothing can have meaning beyond its physical form. This is a convenient ideology for the privileged, but for those who have been given the worst hand in life it removes any motivation to live.
    The very fact that we ask 'why?' is evidence of there being an answer. Perhaps just not one that our waking mind is capable of comprehending.

  • jackmax

    "The very fact that we ask 'why?' is evidence of there being an answer" is rubbish all that proves is that some people have the question why... That doesn't automatically translate to having the answer, but an open mind with what ever the facts present should be our first priority to ensure the truth is passed on to our future generations without all this propaganda religion brings to the table now.

  • Sam Warne

    The reason for my wording is that asking the question 'why?' is something only a conscious and self-reflective being can do. Consciousness to the level at which it is present in human beings is unexplained, and the desire to know our origins- the very fact that we care- I think serves as evidence that there is something worth striving to know. Yes, truth is the ultimate goal, so it would be irresponsible for us to walk through life in dismissal of the idea of spirituality, when it could so enrich our lives and the lives of those around us and coming after us.

  • jackmax

    Your jibberish has no meaning or substance.

    If you would like to learn about our origins then I would highly recommend you take a look at Charles Darwin's the Origin of life or any of the many other books to do with evolution.

    "the very fact that we care- I think serves as evidence that there is something worth striving to know." How is that evidence?

    How would proceeding through life with the knowledge that spirituality is something the church has instilled in us to ensure that their agenda is met and the control of the masses then becomes some what easier.

    I would think that living a good honest life without having to believe in some supernatural being would be far more rewarding than living your life with a lie that there is something more if we give our lives to some imaginary being that people have been exploiting for many hundreds of years. Religion is only one of many ways that man has tried to control his fellow man.

  • Sam Warne

    Clearly our differing experiences in life has led us to different points of view on the fundamentals. I'm no longer religious. I believe religion to be an entirely human construct that has been a method of control and manipulation of population for as long as it has existed. However, the thing religion has taken advantage of is the desire of people to make sense of a world that they see as containing something deeper than the immediately evident. Hence the move towards scientific understanding. I believe that truth is measurable in knowledge, but I also believe that knowledge is not restricted to what in currently measurable by established scientific methods. The hugely varied experiences of individual human beings in the metaphysical and spiritual realms could well be evidence of a reality that science has not yet tapped into, and could hold the key to understanding more of what it means to exist, and what it means to be a conscious entity in what is an inexplicably complex universe. The history of science is littered with claims of absolute solution that have since been proven to be complete rubbish when a further evidence has been uncovered. There is no room for arrogance where truth is concerned. Openmindedness is the only way forwards, and free thinking should be fostered if we are to achieve solutions to the ever growing problem of humanity's presence on earth.

  • certavi et vici

    There is an answer...just don't confuse reason with circumstance.

  • florin

    This man never judge thru Holy Spirit, because he puts his thoughts above the word of God, when this is logic. The desease reapeare because of sin. The diference betwen churchs is because of freedom of christians. And eternity of hell is becauze of infinity majesty of God (when attack the president is different then attack a dog)

  • jackmax

    I'm assuming that english is not your first language and I've noticed this is your first post so welcome to TDF.

    The biggest problem with what religion bring to us is the fact that all christian are conditioned to believe and spread lies. When most people that has the capability to credically think look at the errors and contradictions that are in the bible they wake up to the brainwashing their local ministers/pastors have been dishing up to them.
    There is more than enough evidence to confirm that the bible is nothing more than a book of fairytales.

    Why would some imaginary sky daddy need to have the first four commandments telling you to worship and obey him?

    If your sky daddy was all mighty and as powerful as many claim why has he not shown us non believer the evidence required to ensure that he is real and what is in his book of lies are actual account of history?

    How is it that the earliest account of jesus's death and resurrection are approximately two generations are his death?

  • florin

    Jackmax, yes english is not my first language, and that is a barrier. I study the bible about twenty years, and I know is an historical book, logic and rational book, and inspired by God, because he spoke about things with thousand years before happened, and was exactly. We don't have another book like that. About question, God teach us, because we are His creation, and we are fallen in corruption thru sin, and we need for help. I hope we recognise that. And about proof of His existence, Hi did this, when Jesus come to the earth, but we can't recognise Him, only if we have the pure heart :) Will be hard for me to communicate on this topic (language) but I shared my opinion about the movie. Good day!

  • jackmax

    Mate I don't have a problem with your english but forgive me if I don't understand completely what you are trying to say, but your fairy sky daddy story is rubbish and the bible contains more BS than any other fairytale book ever written.

    We are not his creation in anyway shape or form. In fact it could be said that our mother and father are our creators if there is such a thing, but to imply that some fairy sky daddy had something to do with it is totally beyond belief.

    Do you believe in the tooth fairy, the easter bunny or santaclaus? I assume not, so how is it that you can still believe in the magic man (god) story?

  • Lyle

    Have to love how the troll non believing in the magic man sky daddy story hops all over the non existence argument with no reasons for their opinion. I would love to hear the reasoning for your opinion since I'm interested in info debunking the magic man sky daddy story but have not found nor been presented info to convince me a divine creator does not exist. There is actually quite a bit of evidence to think there is depending on how you think about it. A man known as William Lane Craig has traveled the U.S. and Europe and presented a very solid argument to outspoken well respected atheist/scientist/philosophers in favor of the God theory. These videos are on the web just type his name. I'd also like to add that science has never proved there is not a God(magic man sky daddy). You can find science going along with the existence theory in a lot of cases or not even being relevant to any argument against it. I personally can't find any good reason to point in the direction of non existence. I just can not bring myself to believe that this world and universe and everything that is made up of a bunch of tiny microscopic particles is held together and put in perfect alignment to where our world can support such amazingly detailed life as we know it just came out of no where and is held together by nothing or just itself. Evidence suggest that if any of the major factors that allow us and the world to survive and support human life were changed then life as we know it and conscience human beings would not exist. Not only does the fact that we're unlike any animal in regards to our ability to critically think and keep trains of thought and be a tech advanced species convince me there is a divine creator, but we also are conscience and have free will to make any decision we'd like and best of all we are aware of that! We are not just programmed to eat and reproduce like other species. That's why they don't build houses, farm or make tools. We were put on this earth for a different reason. We encounter feelings inside of ourselves that no body part creates and can give us a sense of direction in choices, danger and our emotional state. Also I'm sure people out there will make the claim as i will and say they have felt God literally touch their soul. Not many know what i mean because of all the different ways that statement can be dissected. I don't mean you physically see it, I mean its the greatest feeling I've ever felt inside of me and wish i could live in it forever.

  • over the edge

    I think the problem lies with statements like. " convince me a divine creator does not exist." please look up "Russel's Teapot". Think about all the gods you do not believe in. Have you found proof all of them do not exist? Of course not but you still do not believe in all gods.

    As for WLC. I have spent too many hours listening to his doubletalk and lies. Yes I know much of what he says are lies. He has had many experts correct him on his misrepresentations of scientific findings but he still repeats them even after he has been corrected. That to me is a dishonest man who deserves no more of my time. An example is his misrepresentation of the Borde Guth Vilenkin theorem. During a debate Allen Guth himself told him he was wrong.

    Now you are right in saying "science has never proved there is not a God" as science by definition says nothing concerning supernatural claims. And yes if some of the peramaters were changed life as we know it might not exist. That proves what exactly?

  • dewflirt

    Morning Lyle, for the sake of brevity I'll leave the William stuff alone :) you have the idea that the universe came into being in order to support life, maybe even just our life on our world? You need to flip your thinking a tad, try seeing that we are a result of the universe being what it is. Can't say I've ever felt god touch my soul but I absolutely have felt dizzy with awe, just the fact that we are here at all can do that. That we are the dusty, distant edge of the big bang, almost as insubstantial as shapes in the clouds. I guess we interpret it differently, you see god, I see incredible good fortune. You thank a creator and I thank my lucky stars. Hope you're as glad to have happened as I am ;)

  • Achems_Razor

    Science nor anyone else has to prove the existence of your magic man in the sky, you said it, you are making a claim for your sky fairies, it is up to YOU to prove your claims, the "burden of proof" lays with you to prove your allegations, and do not try to shift the burden of proof!

  • Matuvo Namikaze

    ..i notice how you fly all over tdf just to find arguments about religion and stuff yourself into them. your pissing a bunch of ppl off, i suggest you leave it be.

  • Achems_Razor

    Thanks for noticing me little girl, didn't think you cared. By the way, or what?

  • Jon

    What you probably meant to reiterate is the Gospel passage about man being wrong about judgment.

    Jesus declared that the ruler of this world has already been judged. Scriptures say that Lucifer is no longer and his name is already Satan. Thus even if we create volumes about judgment, the Truth is mankind got free choice and it can follow Satan or stay faithful. Men sit as judges of their own eternal destiny.

    God gave Satan time to rule because this would thresh or test men and separate good from bad,

    A time is coming when Thy Kingdom come on Earth as in Heaven. Satan would be put in chains, never able to deceive humanity for a thousand biblical years.

  • jackmax

    Firstly I have always watched the doco before I comment on any thread I comment on so your troll remark is incorrect.
    I nor anybody else that thinks your Fairy sky daddy is BS has to prove that your story is just that. That's up to you and all you fools that believe that crap.
    Achems has summed up the way the burden of proofs goes, it would pay to take heed and learn from him.

  • sam.

    I do not believe in god. There is just to much that does not make sense.

  • Martin Wood

    I am an agnostic and have spent much of my life in search of answers. Everyone's journey (figuring out what and who God is) varies in scope and depth. My advise is to not accept any answer someone may give you. Do your own research. Be open minded enough to seek out knowledge. One of your keys will be to look within yourself. When you find peace within yourself you will begin to find the answers to your questions. The internet has a plethora of information, use it. Above all become conscious. Most, if not all, ancient religions and modern religions' scriptures have very similar stories. If you are interested in finding "your" truth, researching these stories and their similarities would be a good place to start. The rabbit hole is very deep and time consuming to traverse. But well worth the effort to do so. I wish you well on your journey.

  • Finley

    This guy can't stop complaining! Okay, fine. Don't believe in God. Next subject. On second thought nevermind, he'd probably complained endlessly again.

  • Barbara

    I feel as if this person has not gotten the healing he wanted so he uses this as an excuse to bash God. He is basically throwing a temper tantrum. He misquotes, selectively quotes and dissects the bible so that it seems like a senseless doctrine. Christianity has not been a perfect religion, but it has helped very many people. God doesn't condemn us, we condemn ourselves! God sent his Son to save us and show us the way. His hair splitting of doctrine and lack of insight suggests to me his faith was not really very deep at the onset.

    The audacity of someone thinking that God should be at an individual's beacon to perform a magic trick of burning rubbish in the middle of a floor. What does this have to do with faith at all? But it was his pivotal sign that God wasn't present. It seems he is looking for a magician, not a God who suffers with real suffering.

    So much of what is in the bible is symbolic. This isn't even mentioned. How juvenile!

  • amyzgrace

    He did not lose God; He never had Him to begin with. Every argument he makes is based on his lack of understanding of the Scriptures, because he does not posses the spiritual discernment to understand them:
    The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 1 Cor. 2:14

    Furthermore, his rationale for rejecting Christianity is based on a series of disappointments not actual evidence. LIfe is full injustice and suffering. We live in a fallen world and are fallen beings.

    His biggest obstacle, besides not possessing saving faith in Christ, is that he fails to see his own sinfulness. Therefore, he has a very high view of himself and a low view of God. He doesn't fully understand the Gospel: God is good, we are not. We deserve his wrath. BUT He chose to make the ultimate sacrifice: Sending the perfect sacrifice for an undeserving, ungrateful world, Jesus. Jesus took our punishment and died on a cross. He defeated death and is now in heaven as our Mediator. Now it is by Grace through Faith that we can by forgiven and cleansed from our sin, and thus have hope in eternal life with God. This is good news!

    He doesn't believe in God, because he chose to believe a lie instead. He sees God as evil and himself as good. The complete opposite of what God's Word reveals. This is very sad. He will get the shock of his life when he stands before his Creator and realizes that he was deceived the whole time. I do not wish this on him, nor does God. The reality is that God is simply allowing him what he wants: Freedom from the loving protection of God. How tragic.

  • Athena

    God came from paganism. Before the Jews/Hebrews became Jews/Hebrews, God/Yahweh/El came from the Canaanite pantheon (such as Baal). When a group of people went to the land of Judah, they favored Yahweh/El over the other gods from the same pantheon. During this time it wasn't unusual, it's the equivalent of having a patron deity for a city as the Greeks did (but Jews were nomad people). They eventually became Henotheistic (aware that other gods exist, but favor one god over others), as you can see in the OT stories such as Jezebel vs Elijah or Pharaoh vs Moses; it was never "my god exists and yours doesn't" it was "my god is better than yours". Early Jews certainly did recognize other god existed (Christians later labeled them as demons; of course). On top of that, archaeologists can line up the parallels between old Judaic and pagan rituals - they're not that different. The Old Testament stories were just hand-me-down pagan stories from when early Jews were polytheistic and from the surrendering other cultures. The myth of Adam & Eve came from the original myth of Enuma Elish, Noah's Ark came from the Flood of Gilgamesh, Moses in the basket came from the story of Sargon of Akkad, etc. The Hebrews just changed the stories to fit their newer needs. Who god/yahweh was 5,000 years ago, 3,000 years ago, and now all pretty different. He's evolved and changed to the culture. God is just in your head.

    You can save yourself thousands of dollars to learn about this from the free Yale classes that look at the old testament from an academic, scholar, and archaeological standpoint: I recommend to keep a box of tissues next to you for when you start foaming at the mouth.

  • JazAce

    You are categorically wrong on almost every point. Science has not proved there is no God, as a matter of fact that will not happen because you cannot prove the non-existence of something, that is redundant. Science could progress to explain 99.9999999% of everything that has ever happened or will happen in the entire universe, and your god will just hide in that last tiny gap. Science has however dis-proved huge quantities of phenomena that had previously been attributed to god. It doesn't matter what you can or cannot bring yourself to believe, that doesn't change the reality of the universe that we live in. Science does not say that life or the universe came from nowhere, and just the fact that your understanding of the argument is that "everything is just held together by nothing or itself," indicates that you are not qualified to make a reasonable judgment on that particular branch of science. The evidence that suggests fine-tuning of the universe for human life does not (really) exist and only serves to prove the egocentricity of the humans who are proponents of it. If the universe is so damn fine-tuned, then why the heck would we live on such a totally, utterly, insignificant speck in the incomprehensibly vast universe, which is so far the only place proven to support life. You are really blowing your own trumpet a bit when you suggest the uniqueness of your intellectual capabilities. You would in fact find upon closer inspection that you or I are actually not so superior as you might imagine. "That's why they don't build houses, farm or make tools." - actually there are certainly many many other species who build houses and make tools, and certainly several that could be considered farmers depending on your definition. As to your personal experience of god touching your soul, only you can experience that, and while I'm sure it was very real for you, it provides absolutely nothing substantial, useful or persuasive to anybody else. I hesitate to cheapen the experience so, but your description of the experience as "I mean its the greatest feeling I've ever felt inside of me and wish i could live in it forever" is totally indistinguishable from reports you may receive from ecstasy, cocaine or methamphetamine takers, or from just about anyone who has experienced an excellent orgasm. To sum up, you have convinced yourself that there is a God based on your feelings and what you would like to be true, and there was literally no point in expounding the pseudo-scientific BS in the several paragraphs before. Simply saying "I feel like there's a god, he touched my soul" would suffice.

  • uranophobiac

    *I'm with you, I can't stand people who complain! I'm tired of all the complaining. On top of that, if you choose not to believe in god, great, just shut up about it. Move on! You don't see religious people pushing their beliefs onto others. (*Sarcasm and hyperbole to highlight irony.)

  • uranophobiac

    *This guy gives up on God because God neglected to heal the girl. Most people know that God can only heal all of the people some of the time or some of the people all of the time but not most of the people in the morning or something, I don't know, it's talks about it in the book of Genesis I think. God gives blessings to people that He wants to, not to who you or I think he should.

    If there was an event where I would have to risk my own life to save another from tragedy, (Now, I'm not saying that I am more charitable and more loving than God, but,) I hope that I would show courage and help. Unfair suffering is difficult to understand. How a child can ache with the retching pains of starvation, begging the heavens for some relief, while God watches on with inaction, but then He blesses Tim Tebow with a great pass and enough wealth that could have eased the suffering of thousands of children. It almost doesn't make any sense. God is very mysterious. (*sarcasm used to highlight irony.)

  • Lisa

    It is not God that causes me to question His existence. It's His followers, or more specifically, the "Christian" conservatives, or the Christian "right". They spew such vile hatred , They don't follow Christ at all, but their own hateful translation of Paul . Christ has been wiped completely out of Christianity in favor of Paul. It's not a church of love, It's the church of Hate. It's so pervasive, so evil. When I see the hate increase exponentially daily, I believe less and less. I hope God intervenes very soon.

  • germk4

    Would almost be funny, if this poor guy hadnt wasted so much time being lied to, and putting his trust into those slimy faith salesmen. I can, however, identify and it makes me think what would my life have been like if I didnt have the right friends growing up, that encouraged keeping open minds and thinking for yourself.

  • Maxine Godfrey

    i wonder if you will ever know how boringly predictable all your pitiful arguments are. NOTE: you are not the first, second, third, or three thousandth to come up with these lame excuses for logical reasoning. don't attempt it again -- the faithful can't handle logic, rational thinking, or reason. you just don't understand the concepts.

  • amyzgrace

    I wonder, would you happen to have any concrete reasons for such abasing comments, because I'm not seeing any.

  • Maxine Godfrey

    i was going to apologize for the venom in my comment, but after rereading your initial comment, i have decided not to retract my initial statement. your negative religious outlook is depressingly common among faitheists, as is your assumption of the young man's insufficient faith in your god. do not mistake this for anger -- it is impatience writ large on a universal scale. i look forward to the end of faith; it is such a bleak prospect. we are all orphans in the maelstrom of the multiverse -- get used to it.