Propaganda

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Storyline

PropagandaOn a trip to visit family in Seoul in April, I was approached by a man and a woman who claimed to be North Korean defectors. They presented me with a DVD that recently came into their possession and asked me to translate it. They also asked me to post the completed film on the Internet so that it could reach a worldwide audience. I believed what I was told and an agreement was made to protect their identities (and mine).

Despite my concerns about what I was viewing when I returned home, I proceeded to translate and post the film on You Tube because of the film's extraordinary content. I have now made public my belief that this film was never intended for a domestic audience in the DPRK. Instead, I believe that these people, who presented themselves as 'defectors' specifically targeted me because of my reputation as a translator and interpreter.

Furthermore, I now believe these people work for the DPRK. The fact that I have continued to translate and post the film in spite of this belief does not make me complicit in their intention to spread their ideology. I chose to keep posting this film because - regardless of who made it - I believe people should see it because of the issues it raises and I stand by my right to post it for people to share and discuss freely with each other.

According to Sabine the above is the formal statement she gave to Federal Police on 16 June 2012.

Sabine: I have translated this film, laid in the English voice over and subtitles, and on legal advice have blurred the identity of the presenter and/or blacked out certain elements.

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Comments and User Reviews

  • http://twitter.com/alKidya Kim Bruce

    I think Sabine is a useful ***** who has been used to spread a propaganda message in and of itself.

  • tsujito5000

    Hurray knowledge! :D

  • http://www.facebook.com/robert.fairhurst Robert Fairhurst

    Really interesting point of view from a source that is rarely heard from. Although a few points grated on me, many views were (in my view) absolutely true. I have no idea what life is like in N.Korea, it is difficult to trust any sources we have, but it is always good to see things from a different perspective.

  • relament

    One of the very best documentaries, ever! It's something you'll never forget. The highest recommendation from me!:)

  • http://seasidepress.org/ seasidepress

    there's good and bad in all systems. i like my shelves stocked. are yours?

  • goodkat

    Just finished watching it and I think it was very good. It didn't exactly feel like there was something new to this, but it definitly put my thoughts into words and that's in one way how a good documentary should be :)

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZMK6YNWJACHQ5CRCJW5TNYFURI KsDevil

    Propaganda fighting propaganda. How ironic with a heavy dose of ego and ignored hypocrisy.
    But you have to admit, they pull no punches in their assessment of politicians and celebrities.

  • Yavanna

    Great doc. Although it is massive propaganda in itself you cant really argue much about the points it makes - especially about this BS celebrity cr4p being forced down our throats all the time.

    I have almost stopped watching TV but you just cant get away completely from the influences of the advertising, the political wrangling, the mass media induced fear tactics. It's all endemic and unavoidable and no matter how much we know it's there; it is a form of hypnotism that despite our best efforts and knowledge, affects us nevertheless.

    I`m glad my best years are behind me - F^ck knows what the world will be like in 20-30 years!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Russell-Smith/576170859 Russell Smith

    it aint proraganda if it true.

  • http://www.facebook.com/sigurdur.j.eysteinsson Sigurður Jónas Eysteinsson

    The sad thing is that it's all true though it's a bit ironic coming from North Korea.. Even with the limited reliable information coming out of that country shows that it's not any different apart for a famine or 10 and a whole lot of poverty and direct oppression.

  • CapnCanard

    well, propaganda isn't necessarily false. Advertising and marketing in support of war is propaganda, advertising and marketing in support of peace is also propaganda. It is both propaganda. The key is "who benefits?" In the simplest definition all adverstising is propaganda, all used to convince you to want something, or buy something you don't necessarily need or even want. Yes, the film could be North Korean propaganda, but I tend to find much of what it suggests to be valid, it looks like it is something that the North Korean state might not approve of. We can all see that the marketing slogans are ubiquitous so much so that we don't even hear what the message is saying. "War on Terror" or "War on anything" is just sloganeering. I find myself in agreement with the analysis of this film though I am not sure of what the motivation is of the film makers. At this point t all seems fairly benign until more information is available.

  • devlinwaugh

    This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill -- the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill -- you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

    How True it is,but most people are too scared.Reality is not what humans want,they want gods fiction fashion and self worth given by the judges of none reality.They have to be told what is self worth and success,(quote) DevlinWaugh 29/07/2012 if you are not happy owning nothing you will never be happy owning everything,if you are happy with nothing you have everything.

  • Jack1952

    Sometimes, no matter how impartial one tries to be, it can be difficult to put a subject in a good light if one is telling the truth. The truth is not propaganda even if the truth is unpopular or makes you feel uncomfortable or you do not like to hear the truth.

    I've come to hate the word propaganda because people use it to dismiss any news item they do not like. They seem to feel the word alone is sufficient and the claim of propaganda does not need explanation or verification. Eventually, almost any news item becomes propaganda to someone. A gross misuse of the word.

  • Imightberiding

    Aha... degenerates, master criminals & drug addicts; the lot of them!

  • Imightberiding

    The part on religion was especially ironic, funny & over all entertaining given the "Dear Leader's" own cult of personality in North Korea. The descriptions used to slander religion in the western world are almost complete in their entirety of defining the infallible Dear Leader himself. Certainly this was never intended to be shown in North Korea.

    One does have to ask the question; Which is worse: Imprisoning, starving & deluding your own people with ridiculous stories of miracles, genius & infinite wisdom regarding one's own leader while the entire population lives in poverty save the few select political leaders, all the while surrounding your your nation's borders with barbed wire & military patrols or... oh wait, that sounds familiar. I was going to compare North Korea's isolation & extreme conditions with the western world invading other nations & taking what they want but it seems there are already many similarities on the home front so it would only serve to guild the lily by adding more crimes against humanity by the west.

    It's so easy to scoff the absurdity of North Korea but it is interesting to watch this from their point of view. Unfortunately for both sides, there is plenty of guilt to go around for all.

  • Malchik

    A lot of American shelves are not stocked.

  • Acomm

    It's pretty clear you've never been to North Korea, and believe propaganda such as that all it's borders are covered in barbed wire, and that only a select few political leaders don't live in poverty. You believing that (US propaganda) is what is ironic.

    Sure, it's not great, and there are a lot of poor and it is highly isolated, but your description was a false exaggeration. Anyway, DPRK does have some very good points about it, much better than the US.
    I would not like to live in either, the bad points of both countries are hell to me.

    Both US and NPRK have serious problems.
    The point is people in the US believe they are "free" and "democratic",that is much scarier. If a north korean video can make your country look bad, and highlight and prove how much propaganda your nation is using against you, it's time to seriously worry about your own leaders, and seek real change.

  • Imightberiding

    Although I watched this a few hours ago, may have left some tongue in cheek comments, I felt compelled to return to this one more time. What shallow, materialistic, decadent, selfish, meaningless, out of control lives we live in first world western countries. What pathetic, wanting, miserable, cold, desperate, painful, sheltered & controlled lives they live in North Korea.

    How will we ever find a healthy medium that is a positive influence, environment & lifestyle for generations to follow & grow & become whole, balanced, loving, sincere human beings?

    What a complete SNAFU! Lies all around!

  • http://www.facebook.com/Elistheman2 Elior Hallo

    If you listen carefully you can hear some kind of subliminal message. I do agree with what being said there though.

  • http://www.facebook.com/nsinnott2 Nigel Sinnott

    Propaganda is to a democracy what violence is to a dictatorship

  • soros soria

    If this is really from North Korea, it's the pot calling the kettle black, so speak. Koreans are "compliant slaves" on par with the Germans under the Nazis and the Russians under the Communists. It's all a matter of what kind of slave you are going to be... Of course we're all slaves. And when we're not consuming junk we're consuming religion. Mankind is stupid and always has been.

  • tsujito5000

    Your right :3 ived research a lot of history , psychology , physics.

    We change ______ with _____ but always stay the same :D

  • rljp

    In many ways the western lifestyle gives a lot for the North Koreans to critisize and brainwash people against. Our consumption is not sustainable, our political systems are deeply flawed via the finance of elections. Many countries feed corrupt nations via importing energy etc. There is a lot of total BS in this film but the premise of content is sort of right on the money pardon the pun. They call religion basically for what it is but go on a tangent too far with it. They call the american political system for what it has become...both parties are the same. Its a vote for the best of the shitty president. But North Korea is no model to buld a culture around however.

  • Jack1952

    Show me a country or place on planet earth that doesn't have serious problems. It is the condition of life, the struggle for survival that all livings things endure. We work with the goal to attain the ideal but it remains illusive because life has the odds stacked against us. No one, nothing, anywhere, survives. The human species has always fought against the conditions that oppress us and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. The big "but" is that some of us do live a better life than others. However, no one lives a life completely without any problems.

    The DPRK has its good points, huh. I would like to hear what those good points are and how you know this. Citing problems in the United States does not negate the tragedy of the North Korean condition. That is an anti-American bias does not serve the unfortunate people of the DPRK at all. Leave that anti-American lens on the table and examine North Korea as a single entity.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Terry-Shannon/100003167801946 Terry Shannon

    I was particularly amused by the little democracy lecture given by the North Korean mouth-piece. The West may be a sinking ship, but North Korea settled to the bottom a very long time ago. Over-all, I enjoyed this... whatever it is.

  • http://www.facebook.com/bonita.evans2 Bonita Evans

    While some of the statements here have some credibility, I must say I am very much inclined to ask anyone who has seen this, to read, "Nothing to Envy" that way you will be able to balance the two approaches and weed out the truth. This hits on everything but their own shortcomings. although many of the comments in this document I believe are true, I have to look at the situation in the North Korea and ask yourself whether there isn't some kind of imbalance. As stated before, have a read of "Nothing to Envy."

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Vincenzo-Santini/100002235899184 Vincenzo Santini

    even tough some of this might be true,, the guy talking and the producers of this documentary, are total ITIOTS.

  • bdoughty

    Weather true or not I believe that the U.S. voters should have every federal servant watch what other countries view of the decision they voted upon in your or my name.

  • bdoughty

    Whether true or not, I believe that the public servants of the U.S. should see the interpretations of other nations.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/3CPTTK2EMUJQW7WIG4M7JNQEXU gonzo

    this wasn't made by north korea. lol

  • hisxmark

    Propaganda is cheaper, so both sides use it as much as possible. But if it doesn't work, either side will...

  • bdoughty

    Don't know if you live in the U.S. The question is who should be the aloud to receive my vote.

  • Imightberiding

    You are absolutely correct Acomm, I have never been to North Korea. Neither have you. I have however been to South Korea & visited the DMZ while I was there. I have also been to China a few times, both prior to 1997 & since. I will presume that you know what I am referencing with that date.

    As another person commented, check out Vice Guide to North Korea. I can tell you from my experience & talking with many other people from the south that it is a very accurate, albeit brief portrayal of how things are in North Korea. There are many other sources regarding forced labour camps in Siberia & all the wondrous exploits of their Dear Leader, Kim Jong Il. Mind you, I sure you are well aware that he has since somehow passed on even though he was a god to those people & his chubby little son has now taken over the position. From my understanding the boy is being somewhat restrained or held in check so to speak by some of the other long standing political mucky mucks. Only time will tell wether this new Great Leader will develop the all consuming Cult of Personality his father did. I highly doubt he will achieve it.

    Now, I am going to watch this one more time. I mentioned in an earlier comment that I did not believe this was ever intended for a North Korean audience. I suspect that it wasn't even made by the North Korean government & has perhaps a darker agenda than I first thought. Ed Swain left an interesting comment along with a worthwhile link.

    Oh by the way, I am not from the U.S.A. but I have lived in different cities in that country for several years in the past & during that time I did fairly well financially & was free to leave & travel when I desired. Cheers!

  • desmond desmond

    When the North Koreans think you have gone too far, then its really time to re-evaluate your choices. I loved the ending though 'They are afraid the public will realise that those who commit atrocities against the people have names and can't hide behind the flag or corporations for ever' - Very powerful statement indeed.

  • Acomm

    incorrect, I have been there, but nice of you to make assumptions.
    The Vice guide was also a beat-up/exaggeration, and Shane Smith is a douchebag and fat consumerist pig. I did the exact same things in NK Shane did, and although an almost identical experience, he/Vice obviously slanted their angle on it. Obviously the guide wouldnt be as exciting if they mentioned the positive aspects of NK, or had no dramas/issues to mention, and Shane wasnt such a whinger.

    You're basing your whole perception/argument on media portrayals (propaganda), not your own experience, then criticizing the other propaganda.
    Oh the irony.

    It is a very closed society (has a tonne of its own internal proaganda too), and not overly pleasant, nor have democracy, but it has no mass consumerism, and has stopped US corporate corruption invading their society, which I respect, and is a great feat.

  • Imightberiding

    My mistake in presuming you a poser, but turns out you have actually travelled to the DPRK. That's kinda part of my point though. You have travelled to their country but honestly, how many people from North Korea can afford or are even allowed to leave their country for a holiday if desired? Boy, you sure told me. Check out monkeetime's 13 part presentation on Utube about North Korea.

    By the way, I have made it fairly clear where I stand with previous comments about the west & consumerism. Just wondered what was worse. Moderate financial success, production & consuming a little or mass starvation & relying on the kindness of others to survive because your own wondrous "Eternal","Great" or "Dear" Leader won't or can't help you himself?

    North Korea is without question a complete absurdity into today's world.

  • demand_sider

    The Dear Leader is one of the few North Koreans allowed to consume like Americans.

  • http://twitter.com/IAMPOPSLAG I AM POP SLAG.

    he probably as a bit more food than your average american though...
    the end of empire is upon us.

  • CrayRail

    Even if the DPRK was the worst state in human history, that doesn't mean what this doc is saying is false. To attack the messenger is the weakest of all attacks. You don't have to be a supporter of their "Great Leader" to recognize the fact that they are telling a lot of truths that are completely missing from "civilized" political debate. Besides, if our political rulers want us to blindly hate everything this government thinks, says, does, wouldn't it be helpful to actually learn what they think? Or could it be that that our rulers would prefer we not think at all, as the doc suggests? You decide.

  • Peter Wilson

    U.S. operations have killed millions of innocent people along with their vital infrastructure (dooming millions more) in 30 sovereign countries, then proceeded to control their resources and dominate their political systems. North Korea was one of their victims, except they passed on the latter part (at a huge cost). The U.S. and other westernized nations have never let up on policies to ensure N. Korea's continuing misery, along with an ongoing threatening stance in rhetoric and media presence. It seems completely logical to me that their population would support, even with an extreme and irrational obedience by our perception, whatever leadership succeeds year after year in defending them from another delivery of U.S. bombing, burning, and general mass murder. We in the U.S. have nothing like that hanging over our heads. So what's our excuse--you know---for our population's "extreme and irrational obedience" to our rulers?

  • drinker69

    I am awake citizen and hear your message of the wholesome purity of minimalism. I'm not my job,i'm not how much money I have in the bank, i'm not my khaki's, i'm not the car that I drive, i'm not the contents of my wallet. But I do consume I think or I don't think when I consume? It's really redundant isn't it, minds such as ours. We have no choice but to consume. Why? So that the weak may die today so that I may die tomorrow. This is all. That is the rabbit hole and I use it as a slide now.

  • http://www.facebook.com/anna.tice Hannah Tice

    Where can I get a copy???

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/YVYR4PET3CB2HAORXGAT2FEN6A theodd1

    Huge irony here. As far as I can tell, most, if not all, the information presented is generally true...the irony is that such a piece on propaganda includes such nonsense "our Dear Leader" and, I'm sure, the North Korean people have no access to global TV, Internet, etc.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/5GBBMBQ6ISYJA4QWCI56ONFFVA Pete

    Wow! Well done!

  • desmond desmond

    It's known as 'The turd in the punchbowl', the right message from the wrong messenger.

  • REBELDOCs

    Its incredibly biased but so are all the things produced in the west.
    A quick peak on America`s darker side ...
    Biased but soaked in truth... worth watching...
    "useful insights gained"

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=748005437 Patrick Jones

    Would I rather be tricked into buying a new Ipod than having my family sent to a death camp and being enslaved by a lunatic.

  • ThisDarkChestOfWonders

    I don't know about North Korea being a bastion of freedom and prosperity as portrayed in the last few minutes of the film, but it is very interesting to see how he describes western civilization from an outside perspective. He may be surprised that a very large and growing number of people in the western world would agree with almost all, if not everything, he said. Good doc.

  • JOHN STINTON

    Even though most of the topics/facts discussed in this documentary are very

    true, its still propaganda within propaganda.

    I think the most important and somewhat threatening quotation within this

    video is "Who controls the past controls the future and who controls the

    present controls the past." by George Orwell.

    It seems that many Muslim / Islamic groups within the United

    Kingdom are currently using these propaganda techniques to distort the

    publics view of British history and British culture to support the up rising of

    Islam.

  • Simon Gramstrup

    Is'nt propaganda supposed to be untrue ? The societies in the vest - spearheaded by US - really are a joke. Allthough i wouldnt want to live in N. Korea, i really hate the arcane, destructive and ineffeficient nature of 'modern' capitalism. It's embarrasing.
    The money construction we lay ontop off our society changes our behaviour in som very unfortunate ways.

  • http://www.facebook.com/lorna.kennedy.984 Lorna Kennedy

    I agree. It was all going so well until the end. To pipe up and claim that their way is right, is as bad as the Americans. I liked alot of the information and facts but mostly what i concluded from it is, there are the same percentage of bad people in every part of the world including north Korea. A friend watched the last few minutes with me and thought i was watching some North Korean political campaign that like any other country was using propaganda to promote their party.

  • PocketG

    I would bet money N.K. didn't make this, rather some America hating liberals who are using the North Korean premise to grow your sympathy and manipulate you into believing as they do.

    If while you watch this you find yourself thinking, "Wow! That North Korean government isn't so bad. They are right! America is the problem!" you are a fool, you've sprung the trap set for your average id**t American liberal. Let's all love North Korea! Let's forget all the South Koreans they've murdered over the last few years and the missiles they launch over Japan. America is certainly the worst country on Earth!

    Read between the lines in the heading, people, "I chose to keep posting this film because – REGARDLESS OF WHO MADE IT – I believe people should see it because of the issues it raises".

  • Alec Mowat

    4 gold in the Olympics... that's not bad. Especially for a country with only 50 athletes.

  • PocketG

    Their government scoops them up at a young age and orders them to serve the "Great Leader" by practicing whatever sport, art form, or instrument the state chooses to force upon them. They haven't had a choice in the manner they live their lives, or even the sport or event they compete in.

  • Alec Mowat

    31:01

    Who is that? The guy on the far left look remarkably like Stephen Harper

  • Alec Mowat

    America scoops them up at a young age... than their coach molests them for decades.

  • Alec Mowat

    I'm certainly not going to defend North Korea but...

    " Let's forget all the South Koreans they've murdered over the last few years and the missiles they launch over Japan."

    How many million Iraqi's died for nothing again? This isn't 90's America, you are certainly not a beacon of hope any longer. America does use over seas labour as slavery. They do start countless wars of aggression.

    America has massive amounts of poverty right now. The only reason America appears better than any other nation in the world is just a result of how brainwashed everyone is. It should clear out soon though. You'll realize that we are all in the same mess.

  • KingGeorgeIV

    Great points and issues are brought up here that more people should be aware of. However the majority of them are taken to ludicrous extremes. This makes me think that its most likely legit N.K. anti-western propaganda. There is some truth in what is addressed, but not without way too much exaggeration, making it a lie. Unfortunate because when living in N.K. behind the veil, its probably really believable. Interesting doc nonetheless.

  • Choom Gang

    I have served in the military with 3 tours of duty to South Korea. Was married to a South Korean. And have studied every topic covered in this documentary.
    I Understand where this guy is coming from. However North Koreans apply these methods to their own people in much harsher measures. I believe this dude believes what he says about his "dear leader".

  • PocketG

    I don't care that you hate American because, Yes, you ARE defending North Korea. You're happy to defend a socialist dictatorial regime that oppresses millions of people and commits horrible civil rights violations every day. If we lived in NK, we'd be put in prison or put to death for the words we typed here today and the outside world would never know.

    You're fine with that...after all, they won 4 gold medals so their country must be OK.

  • Alec Mowat

    I don't hate America. I hate what America has become. America is run by a banking/corporate dictatorship, they oppress millions of people across the planet.
    There are more prisoners in America than there are in any other country. Unfortunately; I do have to watch what I say now. It is getting close to being a point where your words online can land you in prison. They are already starting to censor and block websites based on their content.

    Wake up.

    I'm not fine with North Korea, or America.

  • Oskars Kova?enko

    .really nice film for me...eastern european midleclass citizen.
    .that's just how world is build.
    .i can only see that north koreans want those nuclear weapons for the time americans are comming.
    .sorry guys but i can only say bad things about americans in our days.

  • orp0piru

    What propaganda says about the opposition, is usually true, at least with good propaganda. Their skill is in what they don't tell.
    On describing their own side the propagandists of course fail completely. Listen with a grain of salt both what USA says of DPRK and also vise versa, and review with stark criticism on what they claim themselves to be.

  • yojimbo006

    Great Doc. so much to think about. if this was aimed for the masses of north Korea, it would really question our superior western education and ideals. Even so, it makes you think doesn't it.... who really are enslaved...

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    I may have been angered by this kind of anti-western propaganda when I was younger, but really governments do what they can to ensure survival. Some do it more cruelly, and perhaps more successfully. I don't think North Korea is at all a successfully run government. In this propaganda film the North Koreans demonize military strength, yet that is exactly what they do in their own country, with far more disastrous results to their own people. Rather than make me turn my heart against my country, this propaganda has made me aware of just how grateful I am to be an American.

  • slpsa

    I knew that could not go unanswered. Nice one. Exactly.

  • bburke

    Whoever made this documentary sure has the western mentality figured out. At the risk of being called unpatriotic, I didn't see a whole lot to disagree with.

  • http://profiles.google.com/gareth.hayes Gareth Hayes

    "who really are enslaved..."

    Well, that's quite easy to answer. How many Americans do you know would forfeit their US citizenship to go and live in China permanently, as a second class Chinese citizen, begging on the streets?

    Compare that to the number of North Koreans who risk their lives to escape into China so that they can be beggars on the street there, because it is so much better than in North Korea.

    I think then you will get a pretty good idea of who the slaves are and how badly all these ungrateful "conspiracy theorists" in the west need to grow a brain.

  • yojimbo006

    apparently the whole country (U.S.) goes hat in hand begging to the Chinese, and on a regular basis. maybe its time to sell off the green back, lets see where a run on the dollar would lead too, hopefully a new more sustainable egalitarian form of economics....

  • http://twitter.com/Houyqueen Lucy Saw

    I'm confused. Its obvious who is the target the audience but its not obvious who made the documentary. It claims it was made for youtube (for western audiences), by N. Korea and its obviously counter-propaganda but we have quite a lot of documentaries on this subject I can't imagine anyone being shocked by any of the information. I just cannot see why the DPKR would be interested in issuing counter-propaganda in the West when it would serve them so much better at home. Just saying. Anyway this is a good documentary and what it highlights is all too true.

    Edit: I'm starting to think this was made by someone linked to the West for the West and doesn't have anything to do with the DPKR. I say this only because if "feels" like something designed by one who is intimately involved with the West, someone who lives in and trying to make change in the West, maybe an "Occupier". The DPKR is only interested in the West in terms of how it affects them directly, other than that they couldn't give a fart if americans are all consumer slaves. They could look to China to find people storming a store for an iphone or eating McDonalds and I would say it doesn't bother the DPKR one bit.

    Just think, how many foreigners never mind Asians would use the term "consumer zombies"? LOL. Definitely not an Asian way of describing things.
    This seems more like the work of Adbusters, some "culture jamming", its just their style to subvert a documentary by pretending its produced by or for the DPKR when its really one of their own. A way of confusing the viewer in terms of what is propaganda coming from whom. Anyway I don't believe this is an Asian production despite the lone Korean guy sitting in the non-descript office with his face blurred out. LOL.

    Yeah, this is probably some "culture jamming" business made by adbusters and the occupy movement.

  • dmxi

    well,think about this:
    the american 'negro-slave' was split into three groups,field work,house work & breeding.two of these categories had a very small percentage of 'defectors' due to better living standards than the
    field workers!
    the ones that physically feel the slavery are forced whereas the others 'enjoy' their slavery as an illusion of freedom.

  • Jack1952

    Do not like American foreign or economic policies at all. The one thing I can say in their favour is that if you don't like the place, you are quite welcome to leave. No one in authority really cares. The North Korean can't leave. Something intrinsically wrong when the boss physically forces you to stay.

  • dmxi

    but where can an american go,when s/he hasn't learnt,where the rest
    of the world is,due to poor geographical-schooling?bad education is a
    force, much worse than a whip!

  • Jack1952

    Its tough being enslaved to the American consumer life style. I'm glad I'm Canadian.

    Oh, wait. We're capitalists, too. Damn. I just realized that I'm a slave too. I don't own an Ipod though. Looks like I never will now. It will be my way of protesting American consumerism.

  • Jack1952

    To a certain degree, the American educational system reflects the attitude of the average American. Too many Americans place too little value on education. Why should they learn when they are the smartest people on earth and God's choice to lead and protect the world?

    A good education is available to any American. He/she just has to want it badly enough. Just don't wait for the government to educate you. It won't happen.

  • Jack1952

    They may not be deluded into enjoying their slavery. Its more likely the understanding of the reality they find themselves in. They know they can't escape slavery so they might just as well place themselves in the best position possible as a slave.

    No reason why a breeder can't work. The plantation stud isn't going lay about the farm waiting to breed. In between studding he might just as well pick up a broom.

  • dmxi

    i've read somewhere that the 'studs' were excluded from hard labour to not
    damage their reproductive 'hardware',if you will.surely your right with easy domestic jobs but that wasn't out of necessity more of keeping them away
    from boredom or giving them no chance to come up with 'silly' ideas,like
    equality & human rights,lol!

  • Oskars Kova?enko

    .wanker you are,american.

  • dmxi

    @oskars trollalenko
    it takes one to know one & at least one 'masturbator' is capable of using correct grammar!

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    You're naive, just who the propagandists are looking for. On the balance, I'm happy to be American. Sorry you're not! ;)

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    You have a point, which is that if your life sucks and your government is an oppressive tyranny, the next best thing to do is play psychological tricks that convince you the West is a bad place to live. Where the pavement meets the road, though, living in the west, even dirt poor, is a higher standard of living than under the North Korean dictatorship. Food is not too difficult to come by. I know, I have patronized many food banks and food pantries in my day.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/UNUTBPRBXP5GWYPUJOKDGA4LI4 christopher

    It's kind of funny that it's the "Invincible leadership of The Eternal President" who is laying out a rather good documentary about western propaganda. I am very familiar with the material in this documentary and it is mostly accurate with regard to propaganda overall, although completely focused on capitalism ignoring any propaganda or crimes of communist or socialist systems. I am surprised that the DPRK would even claim to be Korean Defectors as this is clearly a product of the DPRK and seems to originally be intended for North Korean citizens. I wouldn't put it past the DPRK to release a film about propaganda with a propaganda story of their own, it's just a very weak bit of propaganda. I suppose propaganda isn't really their strong suit - all the propaganda I have seen from them is rather obvious.

    A short list of the DPRK propaganda dispersed in the film:

    -The insistence that South Koreans would like to become part of North Korea. While I am sure they do want US forces to leave, I doubt they would like to be under the North Korean regime either. The iron fist is more their style rather than mincing words to exploit and kill people as we do in the west.

    -Arnold Schwarzenegger cannot become president due to a sex scandal, rather than because he was not born a US citizen.

    -There are 38 million homeless people in the United States. Ridiculous. Official homeless numbers are less than a million, but vastly understated. The highest number I could find online was 3.5 million or 1% of the US population which is probably about right.

    -The poll that 87% of Americans understand that 9/11 was a false flag is sadly not true either, as a truther I wish it were. The only Poll I found that might be somewhat close was a NYT/CBS poll May 2002 responses: 21% said "telling the truth", 65% said they are "mostly telling the truth but hiding something", 8% said they are "mostly lying", 6% not sure. Even then the numbers don't add up right.

    -North Korea is not anything resembling a democracy.

  • dmxi

    they're just using the same techniques as our 'short-term-eternal-leaders' or 'inter-changeable-swap-parties' & i could imagine that
    similar doc's have been smuggled into dprk with the same intention.
    remember how many documentaries about the evil communist countries we have been fed via tv over the years?

  • Tyler Partridge

    The question I ask myself, is whether or not propaganda is harmful or not.

    Propaganda is the method used to deliberately spread information or ideology. Propaganda can be communicated through music, theater, art, films, radio, books, and television. Messages of which can be both positive or negative, depending upon the interpretation of its perceived audience.

    The Eternal Jew, in my opinion is an example of "harmful propaganda", which portrayed Jews as subhuman cultural parasites during the National Socialist movement in 1940 Nazi Germany. In 2001, McDonald's spent 1.4 billion on direct media advertising; reminding us all that liking their frankenfood was not enough, but rather we should be "Lovin' It". On the other hand, there are "positive" forms of propaganda. We have all experienced the television commercials (especially around Christmas time) by World Vision, which promote building a better world for children through its sponsorship programs.

    In and of itself, propaganda is intrinsically unprejudiced by definition. Judgement should fall on the message, not the messenger, right? However, I cannot help but come to the conclusion that irrespective of the message, or its subtlety, propaganda is a format of thought persuasion. I maintain that If a persons thoughts are persuaded long enough, they will begin to depend on it. Inevitably depleting their capacity for independent objective reasoning. Perhaps this is the intended goal?

    Taking everything aforementioned into consideration, I must conclude that propaganda, regardless of its arrangement, is undoubtedly harmful.

    Question everything kids.

  • Peter Wilson

    what are the actual exaggerations/lies?

  • Peter Wilson

    "they oughta talk!...yeah but look at them-- they're worse!" So WHAT!! Let the North Korean people wake up whenever they're ready to. If you're an American, then America is YOUR business! Would you release the perpetrator who says "yeah I murdered that family...but look at Ted Bundy, he killed a bunch more people..look at Dahmer, he ate them!!"? So many Christians in the U.S., and few follow much of anything Jesus taught, such as "first remove the log from your own eye"...

  • http://www.facebook.com/kdalwin Ken Dalwin

    Aside for being guilty of its' own kind of propaganda this North Korean
    perspective shows us how they see the West. I have to say I agree with much but not all of their portrayal. In this film both the US and N. Korea (DPRK) are equally guilty of how they see one another and how they use propaganda.
    As the cartoon strip Pogo once uttered: "we have met the enemy and he is us." I think this applies equally to the West and North Korea.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001837422410 Georg Alexander K

    u could also add that americans were convinced that the comis would use the atom bomb and because of that tthey hated them. But in reality the russians didn't even think about it. they were simply afraid that the amis would start it. But they didn't hate the people who lived in america.

    Also this film was made only for us not for the korean public. Because it includes a hamburger which was invented by Kim Jong Il lol.

    But I think everything else except what the Koreans have said about themselfs is true. :)

  • KingGeorgeIV

    Yes the advertisements of the western world certainly have a psychological effect on their viewers, but do you really believe that it is a government plan. It might be a by-product that it plays into a government plan but I do not believe it was the original intention. We definitely consume much more than we need and diagnose ourselves with problems via TV commercials; so are the PR, advertising, and marketing firms to blame?

    Im not sure, but with the exponential population increase and current unemployment situation, do the economical ends justify the seemingly unethical means? At first glance, I would say no because there was a better way to do things before the world became so industrialized and somewhat institutionalized by the poison of an easier life. But if im looking at the situation in the present, I see that what has happened in the past and what is happening now was always bound to occur in some way. Someone would have always found a way to exploit any new thing under the sun in order to get whatever they desire out of it. It has been engrained into the human mind ever since we began to coexist with each other in separate nations. Some might even allow it to fall under the category of natural selection. I say this also while considering any alternative that exists anywhere else in the world.

    A lot of what is said makes the western civilization leaders out to be more evil than they are. The truth is, they are not much different than any other average citizen. We have all heard it said that power corrupts and money is the root of all evil. If you or I were put in these situations of power and wealth, could we really say that we would be acting in a more ethical manner?

    Like I said, there is much truth to this doc, but the extremes are exposed where the truths are exploited to make more profound claims about some sort of general evil that lies within the people in powerful/wealthy positions. That same evil lies within each and every one of us and all that separates us from them is the means to carry out the evil intentons in our hearts and minds.

    Now there are a few cases where some real good exists in someone, but as we have seen throughout history, those who have sincerely benign intentions are almost always either pushed aside, killed, or eventually become corrupt themselves.

    Yes capitalism sucks and the American system of democracy has deteriorated since its foundation but what else is there? Is the NK way of life to be desired then? The film seems to be one that convinces its NK viewers that while the western world seems tempting and somewhat ideal, it is really a slave driven consumerist trap. It does a great job of allowing its target audience to view the rest of the world with a NK government approved lens.

  • Peter Wilson

    Amen to all your observations Brother!

  • Tyler Partridge

    It was an off-hand example, unintended to the be the crux of my deduction. I hate to burst your globular pocket of air.

    Interesting article, nonetheless.

  • dmxi

    no worries mate,enough hot air around here to re-inflate my globular pocket!you just picked a poor example!

  • http://www.facebook.com/ingus.krauklis Ingus Krauklis

    A propaganda film against the West. And so the two sides keep up the game.

  • Scott Sherwood

    So, Sabine, the translator was arrested? Whats happening to her now?

  • Notatall

    Most of what is said here is true and undeniable, any person who truly identifies with a country with out question is a dangerous fool. If being proud; means excepting whatever is given to you with out question, then america is better off without the likes of you.

    good luck to you

  • Missedtheboat

    missing the point.....

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    "Most of what is said here is true and undeniable, any person who truly identifies with a country with out question is a dangerous fool."
    That's just silly. Of course people who love and identify with the culture of their own country; you're saying you hate your country? You are the kind of person this propaganda was intended for, someone who is easily led to accept only the negative presentation. That is propaganda, half truth.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Amazing how similar North Korean propaganda is to conspiracy films like Zeitgeist and Loose Change.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    "what are the actual exaggerations/lies?" This silly propaganda piece doesn't look anything like where I grew up. You have to go out on a limb to say this is the definitive profile of the United States. That's what makes it propaganda, it's a half-truth, not a full truth.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Gullible, naive, and intellectually lazy people don't bother with a whole truth when presented with a more convenient half truth. That's why propaganda only works on a limited number of people, because those who probe deeper into its motives and its context are not convinced.

  • larooch

    I am only a quarter through this doc but am very dubious of the back-story of it coming from N. Korean defectors, etc.. This seems like it was made by Westerners for Westerners. Chomsky is referenced directly as well as his 'Manufactured Consent' appropriated at one point in the "translation." (It feels like it was written in English first, by someone who fancies him/herself a radical) There is a sympathetic take on western protests, as well as the ideal of true democracy. Furthermore, the editing language of the piece is very western as well. However, the whole notion is pretty post-modern, I suppose, and an interesting rabbit hole: using the premise of propaganda about propaganda to make propaganda in a style suited to work on westerners made by fake N. Koreans... and it kinda works as here we are, talking about it on our fancy computers sitting on our comfy sofas that we bought on credit. Life is good. I'm lovin' it!

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Hmmm, you make an interesting and possible case. If we step back and look at this from afar, I would say that very few westerners are ever going to look at this, and much fewer would actually sit through the whole thing as it is very obvious, and in the end nobody is going to sell his house and move to N. Korea because of it.

  • larooch

    After finishing this doc, I am even more convinced of my initial take on it, noted in my earlier post. It really has nothing to do with N. Korea at all, as it is only briefly mentioned at the beginning and then again quickly at the end. The themes are a sampler platter of those found at the various occupy movements and are all over the place: mass media and consumer culture, the 1%, corporate greed, treatment of animals (fur, killing dolphins), Israel/Palestine, war in Iraq, smoking/tobacco corps. (they even mention second-hand smoke deaths, which is so typical) fast food, etc., etc.. My guess is it's made by some young people in the US with axes to grind, who read some Chomsky, have a Korean friend or two, attended Occupy Portland, hate smoking, identify with PETA, believe in a possible true democracy, feel that Israel is in the wrong, grew up w/American pop-culture, know how to edit vast amounts of clips from TV and archival footage, and believe they are part of a revolution.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    The pragmatic question is what is the purpose of such a film? I don't mean simply, "it's propaganda," but would would anybody making such a documentary expect from it? So we make wars and some of us kill seals? I think Americans are underestimated because of an unprovable premise that we all think, say, and do exactly the same as everybody else, when in fact we above almost everybody are not lock step. You can point to any segment of this film, and I can show you millions who are not in those few frames. Maybe its makers think of themselves as agents of change, but it looks extremely chaotic and unorganized to me. It goes off in every direction.

  • Yupyup2020

    Study the facts, forget about the film.

  • Guest

    That guy is not North Korean. According to my wife (who is a South Korean) his accent it's not from the North. So it could have been recorded in USA or South Korea by a pro-NK South Korean...

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    "Study the facts, forget about the film." It is the film that is the topic of discussion here. It has already been pointed out that you can present a fact, and still not present truth. Effective propaganda is the selective dissemination of only some facts.

  • matrixnode

    he may have defected

  • mark

    whatever he is spot on id love to meet him and he should be awarded a medal for this brilliant observation of the decline of democracy and the west.brilliant its in a nutshell

  • mark

    by the way im a aussie and i dont support any of these outrageous wars and crimes committed in australias name.we the west should take a long hard look at ourselfs and be disgusted by what we have created.a unstable planet on the verge of collapse

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    "whatever he is spot on id love to meet him" That's funny and sad because his propaganda worked on you. I wonder if you live an elevated life style and quality by the very system you think you despise. I know people who protest Israel, but they themselves would never give their own home back to the Indians. It's a funny hypocrisy, becomes obvious to spot after a while.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    "by the way im a aussie and i dont support any of these outrageous wars and crimes committed in australias name." But you do live comfortably and conveniently on land the Australians originally stole from the Aboriginal, right? And would you give up your house and property back to the Aboriginal, and move back to Europe where you came from? Oh, I thought not. Only other people should do that.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/SBQV7RB4XNX5BT6MPNTMY2SWJM Dodd

    No Banks=No Empires=No Wars.
    This 'Propaganda', was one great documentary. Should have been 'less graphic' in a couple of scenes...Zeitgeist, (film series[3], is another exposer of truth...

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/SBQV7RB4XNX5BT6MPNTMY2SWJM Dodd

    Fact is truth actually. You are wrong. Denial is fear of truth, and this is a fact. See ?

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    "No Banks=No Empires=No Wars."

    How silly of us. What a great idea. Let's all go back to the Middle Ages and trade goats and ****.

    "This 'Propaganda', was one great documentary." - I found it naive, probably appealing to simple minded crowd. I think propagandists know their brain washing can't work on everybody.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    "Fact is truth actually. You are wrong. Denial is fear of truth, and this is a fact. See ?" - I have no idea what your point is. Let's see, "War is bad" - oh my! "Banks are bad" - oh my! "Money is bad....the west is bad...you are all bad, me good" - Well, you give very convincing reasons why we should all paddle our outriggers to the next continent and start over! ;)

  • Jprofit40

    I wise man learns from his enemies

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    I'm not disagreeing that the Empire of America is a heavy handed bully that can be made better. I question that on the balance there is anything in this film that would motivate me to move to a desert island, much less move to North Korea. If you go to YouTube you will find journalist's film documentaries of North Korea. It's not what I would call enticing.

  • http://twitter.com/theorybrat Paul R. Gauthier

    This is very typical of communist bloc propaganda intended for a Western audience. It's merely been updated for the contemporary world. Most of you are too young to have been exposed to such things during the cold war, but I"m not. I have no doubt this comes out North Korea.

    It's good propaganda because much of what it says has a basis in truth. And its goal is not to get you to move to North Korea, dummies. It's goal is to make left leaning people in the West sympathetic to their regime, as well as to agitate them.

  • http://twitter.com/theorybrat Paul R. Gauthier

    I'm convinced Loose Change is an FBI psyop designed to distract naive people from engaging with REAL left-wing politics -- to chase fake conspiracy theories around rather than, say, organise a union. As well as to discredit the anti-war movement by associating it with these nutbars. It's no coincidence that these "truthers" spend so much of their time going after what they call "left-wing gatekeepers", like Noam Chomsky and Amy Goodman.

    And where do you think that punk kid who made Loose Change gets his money? I say it's from the FBI.

    And Zeitgeist is nothing more than a rebranded version of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. If the idiots who revere it read more books and smoked less pot, they'd know this.

    Neither of these films and the movements surrounding them has anything to do with the authentic left.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    "It's good propaganda because much of what it says has a basis in truth. And its goal is not to get you to move to North Korea, dummies. It's goal is to make left leaning people in the West sympathetic to their regime, as well as to agitate them."

    6 of one, half-dozen of the other. The North Koreans very likely don't want an influx of foreign Caucasians taking up residence in PyonYang any more than the Iranians want Palestinian Arabs suddenly flooding into Tehran. In both cases dissent is welcomed, but at a distance.

    The film seems very shallow to me, but I guess there's a sucker born every minute.

  • whatever

    someone watched the adam curtis collection...

  • Al Stross

    Protocols of the elders of zion was a forged anti semitic propaganda piece...
    how is that similar to zeitgeist?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GSH6QSFTGGNEXOG5UOBLF3X2ZY N

    Ask why ?

  • Jerald Mysza

    America.Stay fat,dumb and happy,and some day the only opption your vanity will have is canninablism.Prosperity has nothing to do with government but rather is based in size of population,avalibity of resources and with whom you must share your borders with.Time and tide will all ways have the last word.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    *yawn* Stupid.

  • thepuppetbehindthepuppetmaster

    cant work on everybody but does on americans lol...

  • http://twitter.com/HomerunDesignPA Pavol Almasi

    Some of the comments here sound as if this was the first documentary critical towards USA. There's nothing new here. Sure there's lot of problems, hypocrisy, money influence... The difference is, that you can see the trash and problems. They are not hidden behind some iron curtain. And frankly, I rather watch some stupid Hollywood celebrity while having the option to just ignore it, than to have the Great Leader as the ultimate celebrity that you have to obey. Yes, West has a lot of trash and a lot of problems. But clearly, if Western countries had open its borders, it would be flooded with immigrants. If North Korea (and many other countries where West is demonized) opened its borders, it would be an empty country.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    As I watched some of the coverage from 9-11-2001 this morning, Tom Brokaw, who watched the World Trade Center burning from the NBC Studios at Rockefeller Plaza noted that this was one of the risks of an open society. He said it just like that. It's ironic that people whine about America, when so many nationalities are represented here. It's even funny hearing people who have never been to America pretend they know what's going on here, when clearly they have zero awareness of this cultural melting pot. Our borders were open, before the terrorists made us rethink our openness. We are still more of an open society than N. Korea after 9-11. Again, on the balance, North Korea, if it is behind "Propaganda" is spinning its wheels and going nowhere. I'm starting to think this film is more of a hoax, considering all the stock footage that's available to make such films.

  • http://www.facebook.com/pierre.hanot Pierre Hanot

    Man ! do we live in such a fk up society or what ? hard to deny the facts ..
    1% vs 99 % and we still lose the game ....pls don't call the feds on me !

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    It's your society, take charge and make it what you want it to be. Show me a society that's not f***ed up. I never want to live like Che Guevara, hiding in the mountains, changing the parrots and the monkeys.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/NEHMF2WJAT7NQWRGM7YQMGOA44 Mary

    An eye-opener all around, horrifying...I wish I hadn't seen it but then again, I'm glad I did. A must for free-thinkers everywhere.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/VHJZCE22TVU6JA4DJUKWER7XLA JustinB

    Beware of those using facts to push a hypocritical agenda! Can't say I disagree with many of the points made in this film, which made the irony of it being produced by North Korea that much more stunning. Sure, the West has many deep-seated issues it must address for the sake of its people and the world. Atrocities are committed in the name of nationalism and "freedom", but really for oil and other agendas. However, the openness of dialogue, even if restrained by social norms, and innovation of society via technology and communications, makes the US the best place to change the world for the better, and a much better place to live in than North Korea. Caging your people and flooding them with idolatry of the "Dear Leader" is much more dangerous than Kim Kardashian any day.

    Interesting nonetheless and a worth the watch. Thanks for posting!

  • AddNewComment1

    or maybe he is a direct ancestor of an Australian prisoner sent over from Europe and had no choice in the matter.....things are not always black and white...

  • AddNewComment1

    "according to my wife" what a wuss...

  • ACP_Paddy

    Ahem, North America.

    The West is not just the US.

  • Leslie

    Yes most Americans who discuss N Korea and sure they know what is going on in N Korea better then the people living in it. N. Koreans know more about Us propaganda then most US citizens. Mad World

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    To see documentaries of North Korea, it gives the appearance of truly pathetic. You have the minders with their Rolex watches preventing visitors from witnessing the most horrific human rights abuses on the planet. They make great efforts to put on shows of how normal they are, but it's all pageantry, which they quickly disassemble when their little show is over, and it's back to the sucky life style they were living before the visitors form the west gave them a few minutes of reprieve.

  • http://twitter.com/DMacaiodh Deborah Macaiodh

    This is an undeniable truth.

    I personally hate our government. I think a major revolution is our only hope at this point. It's all too big. There's no way to counteract and put a stop to the corruption. It's too much, a million secrets, and even on the rare chance something big is discovered, there's not a whole lot the average person can do. For example, back in the 1950s or something, a man was murdered for building a perpetual motor with free energy. Not only that, but the gas mileage was out of this world. He tried to get a patent, the oil industry and auto industry found out about it, try to buy him off so it would belong to them. But he realized what they really wanted was to bury it. Buy it, patent it, and nobody else could use it or make one, which means this engineer wouldn't be able to build it without them, unless he came up with something else from scratch. The whole reason he built it was to help reform the serious energy crisis we have. Nobody would want any other kind of motor, and the world regime would fall. So they killed him. (The documentary is called Gas Hole.) It's probably around here somewhere. There's no way to compete with that, and when someone has enough power and guts to challenge the status quo, like John F Kennedy or Martin Luther King, Jr., they get killed. Thank God there's no way the government could ever confiscate all the guns we've saved for just such an occasion as to try to force our hand too hard.

    But it's just too big. No one's going to be able to control the USA and everything in it and everything done elsewhere. It's just too huge. We have to keep going til it all comes crashing down. A fall will happen, and we are mostly helpless to prevent it. Americans are an extremely volatile and exuberant people. We stupidly aren't really afraid of anyone except each other. We ARE a melting pot, as someone said, so there'd be race wars and all kinds of violence. If America falls, you won't want to be there to experience it.

    All that stuff up there made us look flighty, naive, child-like, and ridiculous. I assure you, there's nothing ridiculous about enjoying your success by buying stuff, or going to the movies, or getting emotionally invested in people we grow to care about but will never meet. Mine are Kurt Cobain and Bradley Nowell. Their music changed all future music, just like how The Matrix changed action movies. We helped them make that music by inspiring us to inspire them. And yeah, people freak out on Oprah. But not that much! Not over shoes. She probably did something for a poor person or whatever who told their sob story on the show, like fixing their house after a tornado. Something like that. We do have a lot of fun here, too. We laugh a lot.

    Many of us have wanted to do good but are thwarted. That stuff about corporations and republicans and religion and the Pope is true. Half the government would rather the poor be totally homeless, broke, and dead rather than accidentally help someone who's abusing the welfare system. It makes no sense.The other half have been fighting that kind of corruption our whole lives. It could be different, we wish we could fix it.

    That's because, after everything they/we've done, we still love the United States of America. If she goes, we will mourn her. We love it because it's ours. It becomes less ours every day, but many of us will rather die trying to save her and hold on to something we cherish so much. If there is any life left on our bodies and hope at least the size of a mustard seed, we will keep fighting for her.

    A lot of people in this world don't feel the same way about their countries. They definitely dislike their leaders. There were so many forced smiles and happiness in that vid. During Kim Jong Il's funeral, they had all these people there, crying and screaming and acting all suicidal like they loved him so much, even though everybody knows it's a show. This would be unnecessary in the US. If President Obama died, we would grieve and our tears would be genuine. We're dysfunctional, but we're a family. We share in each other's joys and victories. We also revel in each other's losses after the many games we play. We like that stuff. And we'll look right into the camera and tell it like it is. We learn from each other all the time because we're so different.

    So please don't even compare it to Korea. We're not all hypnotized and satiated. We know what's up. Some people don't care about any of this, and others would strongly disagree. But, freedom of speech, right? We still have a lot to offer. For now...

    And for the record, I'm personally sorry for everyone we have hurt because of a lie. Hurt period! I'm sorry I didn't figure it all out sooner. If I could change places with any loved one who got killed because of the bull****, I would. I wish we deserved your forgiveness. I hope you try to do that. We're all carrying enough anger as it is. It could eat us alive. And it will definitely kill every one of us eventually, if we can't find common ground.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_IPYJLHJ3F3A2CFY2QIDI64VDXM B

    Propaganda meet Propaganda. It's not only an American evil, it is a World evil passed through Countrie's and leaders as far back as the "civilized" World.
    Is it not ironic that a country like N. Korea makes a tape about american propaganda while weaving it's own propaganda machine into the film that supposedly lifts the veils of Americans.
    Yet their's a definate subtext of denying the Holocoust, hating all western religion and saying we believe in a false God, pointing out only the terrorism of Western Countries while not showing the terrorism that the Middle East has routinely commited on us. I'm not trying to justify our atrocitie's that are obvious to all, I'm just pointing out the double standard. And once again showing you that their using propaganda in this film to get their country to hate us for what we do. When I could easily make the same documentry about the East and what they do.
    Like I said propaganda stretches it's hand from Bernaize to Hitler to Rockerfeller to Kim Jong Ill to Mao to Netenyaho to Bush Sr and Jr to African Warlords to Yasser Arafhat to Saddam Hussein to the media to hollywood to bollywood to just about every part of society.
    We can if we choose to resist the corperate and media powered Propaganda by not buying products we don't need and by turning the channel from Fox news and MSNBC and currentTV to freespeech .org or linkTV or D.O.M. or better yet create our own news from within our communities.
    The harder challenege is resisting our political propaganda because we want to believe in the things that are good about our country. But until we relize our government and corp's are one in the same and do something to regain control. I believe it's far easier than my friend who commented below about how huge the problem is and unchangable.
    I would give her hope by saying America, Big, Strong, Super power America, is a very young civilazation. Were 236 years old. We were founded on 1776. Compare that to these acient civilazations in the world like Egypt and Countries in Africa that go back 10's of 1,000's of years.
    And in that time we have suffered a great depression, many wars, and this most recent great recession, because the most powerful, the elite who have ran this Country, used an economic model of capitolism that only favors the very few and has proven again and again it is a system of failure.
    And we won't be able to take another recession. this one will not be as easy as the great depression to come out of because they still had manufactuering and Unions and farming and small business etc. We have nothing to bounce back on. We have no more factories in Pennsyvania or Ohio or Micagan or Virgina and West viginia to make steel and coal and copper and oil and all metals and everything we had is now overseas at the demand of our Governments and were left with multi national corp's like Walmart and banks and fast food and clothing stores, etc. all these jobs start at 9 bucks an hour. Gimme a break. Or you can be a prison gaurd for 13 bucks an hour or a cop or teacher. If it wasn't for the innovation of our college campuses who still manage to produce some intelligent life forms we would be really F***** but luckily they gave use computers and microsoft and napster and facebook and google so they created a boom so we could be skilled in something again and actually make a decent wage ata decent company.
    But our government wants to privitize our schools and colleges which is our last outlet to advance a differant opinion, to ride a differant color horse, but when they take that the society will fall on itself. Their won't be race wars or civil war only mass depression and loss.
    Thats when it's time for the strong who have suffered at the hands of the tyrants can rise and stand for what is right. We can build a government for the people, with human rights and dignity, and make sure that this pitiful history of America will not be repeated. The only question is how long will they take to fall. I believe it's very close not because I believe in conspiricys
    but I look at the systems we rely on. Capitolism is in peril were in debt of 16 trillion dollars and growing everyday. So the dollar we rely on will very soon be worth jack crap. And democracy is anopther system we rely on. And i can say after watching the occupy wall st movement that our 1st amendment is null and void. And with the passing of the patriot act and the NDAA that our 4th and 10th amendment are null and void. We only have so many but our rights our being stripped as we stand complacant. But our system of democracy is falling. So not long in my opinion.

  • Jalster28

    And what evidence do YOU have of this?

  • Sam Wheatley

    Doesn't anyone else think this documentary actually makes some really good points?

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    By really good points, you mean a prejudiced selection of only the worst of humanity, like war, famine, poverty, disease, etc., and then saying, "This is the evil West!" But, why not turn the tables and do the same thing with North Korea? It sounds like some people here have fallen for the trap. We in the west are allowed to inspect and criticize our failings. Try getting a North Korean or Iranian national to do the same thing, and you hit a brick wall. These are people who will never admit their own countries have serious problems of their own that they ignore.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Easy: Yes. There are very good video documentaries on YouTube of American journalists in North Korea. Go to YouTube and search on "Sneaking Into North Korea." Be sure to also watch the related 3-part series "Inside North Korea - VICE Travel - Part 1 of 3". There is some really crazy stuff in there, like the fake buffet hall which the North Koreans quickly assemble just so the American journalist will think this is a popular dining spot, and then they quickly disassemble it immediately after he leaves.

    If it's shocking expository documentary you are after, you can do no better than to watch National Geographic's "Inside North Korea". When it ends you will be thankful you don't live there.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Look up Camp 22 on Wikipedia.

  • gainline

    This is a very enjoyable, well made, thought provoking documentary. But I think it's also a hoax.

    To begin with, the back story provided by "Sabine" is just a little too woolly and conveniently short on detail to be entirely credible. What crime is she meant to have committed by distributing this film? In which country was she questioned?

    On the Facebook page associated with this film, the "questioned by police" back story appears very early on, alongside the first postings of the film segments. To me, being questioned by police just as you launch your Facebook page seems a little convenient. I'd suggest the "questioned by police" back story is included purely because its a nice way to hype the content.

    North Korea is always a hot news topic. Does anyone have a link to a news story referring to a western citizen being taken in for questioning regarding an apparent crime in connection to this film? If "Sabine" wants to promote this film, why not contact even a local paper for an interview? Bearing in mind that there are inevitable questions about freedom of expression if, indeed, the police disapproved of the distribution of this film.

    Ok, perhaps she values anonymity, but then why the need for any back story at all? We don't need the name of the person uploading it, even if its a pseudonym.

    Sabine believes that her sources were working for North Korea... if North Korea wants this material to be made available in the west, is it really incapable of finding its own English translation? Is North Korea not able to upload material to the internet? Why would they need to send people with a hard copy to Seoul in search of itinerant westerners? Hmmm.

    I'd need a lot more info to back up the story before I start taking it on face value, sorry.

    Leaving all that aside, even if I take the back story at face value I still don't buy that this is intended for a North Korean audience. I'm sure it is made for western viewers.

    Throughout the film, we get references to western popular culture and moments from recent history which are well known here but would be far less well known in North Korea. Yet, these references receive little explanation in the narration. Without strong prior knowledge of western popular culture, I think a viewer misses out on many of the film's inferences.

    The segment dealing with replacing left wing rebellion with rock music rebellion doesn't make sense unless the viewer recognises Paul McCartney and understands the position of The Beatles in our culture during the 60s. Nothing in the narration explains that the girls are swamping a car filled with mere musicians. How many North Koreans would pick up on it?

    Similarly, Elvis appears, unnamed. He's there to point out further hypocrisy on the part of Richard Nixon - but is that really needed? With all the other material available with which to vilify Tricky Dicky, is it really necessary to mention that he once gave an award to a drug addict? The sequence appears to be in there only to shoehorn Elvis Presley into the narrative - why? Why would that have resonance for a North Korean audience? Won't they be more impressed by the carpet bombing campaigns of the Vietnam war?

    I think its in there because the film makers know the audience will instantly recognise Presley as a key figure in western culture. They expect the audience to do this because they know the film will be viewed by a western audience not a north Korean one.

    I guess the defence would be that the film is intended for a North Korean cultural elite that will pick up on all the references. A sort of Pyongyang smart set. The hipsters of the DPRK. Hmmm. I'm not sure I buy the idea that money was invested in a propaganda film aimed at such a select group. Why invest money in a propaganda project that doesn't aim for the widest audience?

    Anyway, I really enjoyed the film. Its very well done and a notch above most documentaries available on line. Its not what it says it is, but that doesn't make it less of an achievement. Well done to the creators.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    It is very un-North Korean, with historical and popular reference points that are all but non existent in North Korea. See the YouTube films I mentioned, "Inside North Korea" on YouTube, and you will understand why it is unlikely the N. Koreans made the present documentary. They can't even reasonably fake Gangnam Style. Seriously, watch Gangnam Style by PSY, then look up the N. Korean spoof on Gangnam Style, in which they try to replicate the music using big band style orchestra. It's at once hilarious and pathetic. More to the point, there can't be more than 5 N. Koreans who even get a reference to Elvis Presley.

  • http://twitter.com/SvWesting Steven Van Westing

    doesn't matter if this film is really from north korean manufacturing or not

    i think the message is quite clear

    especially the part where they show the hysterical Oprah visitor freaking out for "receiving sneakers", i really find myself agreeing with the statements made the by the alleged korean government ........ not that north korea is not indoctrinating it's own citizens or anything :0

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    So you're saying what we already know, that we have materialistic tendencies? What else do we have that they consciously have left out of this film? Anything good perhaps? If you start to feed the wrong wolf, it will consume you.
    I had a Muslim girlfriend from Turkey. Eventually we split up, but remained friends. She was consumed by Communism. Always displaying Communist propaganda cartoons and photos. One had a cartoon of Chávez wiping his butt with toilet paper printed with the American flag. It was easy for my girlfriend to offend me, though I never offended her with political cartoons about her beloved Turkey. She liked another photo that showed two frames, where the left frame was a Hollywood suburb shot from the air, with backyards full of swimming pools. Another looked like it could have been in India or the Middle East, of an old man drinking water on the street, actually lying down and drinking street water. The caption said "Capitalism".
    Well, I think she was wrong. No one in Capitalist United States has to drink water out of a street gutter. I think the left frame should have said, "Capitalism" and the right frame should have said "Middle East". The places where capitalism doesn't work are also places where despots control the economy, or the Mullahs, or the caste system. Dig a little deeper than the superficial presentation of this film to find its dishonesty.

  • Pythus

    so funny. its like the stupidest guy you know calling you stupid. the north koreans are the last people who should be talking about propaganda. they do make interesting points in this doc but its nothing we havent heard before. things are not just black and white the world is filled with shades of grey. the north koreans are just as brainwashed as they think we are. and they are just as good and evil as any of us westerners. so dont be so quick to point the finger mr kim.

  • canuckdanny

    it makes no difference where it came from,its true! you yanks have been lied to for years by your uncle sam. he keeps you occupied with stupid tv while he robs you blind. then when the kids come home from oil wars with no appendages ,arms and legs to you hillbillys, you can parade them out for photo ops on national tv on football day sunday and pin a medal on him. the yanks are headed for a police state and dont even know it. good tv for us folks up north.

  • http://thewhatsupdocs.blogspot.com/ What's Up Docs?

    The image on this documentary is taken from a book called, "Age of Propaganda" written by Anthony Pratkanis and Elliot Aronson. It should really be taken down since the book and the film aren't produced by the same people.

  • wolfeden

    Communism sucks!
    We all know that. North Korea shouldn't boast about their ideologies!. They are HUGELY guilty of human rights abuses. But, the evidence on this film should alarm each and every one of us in the so-called "Free World." We are not as free as you think, and not at all innocent of atrocities! Given the choice, I would still definitely live in North America... but we need to WAKE UP!!!!

  • wolfeden

    At 44:28 get a life, you pervert!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=541089388 Suzan Bulca

    This is one of the best conspiracy documentaries that i Have seen . The guy speaks well, his factual way of speaking, which is the truth, is very entertaining.

  • edshaw

    Too many loose ends here. I suspect this is an exercise in film making by college students. Wild guess is either Columbia or NYU Film School. If that wild guess is not right, you get the idea. Almost every clip appears to have
    been either ripped from the DVD's or screen captured from You Tube. As pointed out, the book and the movie are not related.
    I don't believe this came from Asia. The language gives it away. While the accent is standard American, the semantic structure of the narration is definitely American, very much New York, again.
    The ideas expressed are definitely New York pseudo intellectual, heavy on the left wing and cynical bias. Also, the rudeness and aggressive unkindness point again to New York. The obsession with fashion, with models, and with American consumerism is very mindful of gay rights and gay liberation, suggesting the gay psychological influence.
    I don't get the titles, sorry, nor do I get the narrator with the face blocked out. Probably a friend featured to suggest this has Oriental origins. If it was really North Korea, it would have done better than the standard, widely available N. Korean Army clips. Also, the anti-Zionist sequence suggests a diversion. I suggest these students might be Long Island Jewish kids from affluent Communistic or Marxist influence, dabbling in Public Relations careers and throwing this out there to see how many people they could fool.
    The parents would be mortified.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    That actually sounds plausible.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/QIYY6RKXWII3ZNMH4AFR37NZY4 Rob

    The guy at 25:18 is Ceausescu, good friend of the great, and probably r^tarded, leader's grandpa. Some say his trip to Korea improved his oppressing skills.

  • David Hunter

    The glaring irony in this documentary is that it itself is a form of Propoganda...

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/75ZCHNYCNQ2VSPBNRZMPE4A4ZQ Earl

    The back story on this documentary is tragically fraudulent... That said, the ideas and straight talk are difficult to refute. If you like conspiracy genre films this will certainly climb to the tip-top of your list. I watch close to 3 docs every day on average, this has quickly become one of my favorites. Now I wouldn't recommend it for those new to the genre for its simplistic nature that pulls no punches and doesn't waste time apologizing for the fact that it's not bore-assing you with statistical figures backed up by laborious research every 30 seconds. By 2012,13, if you're not privy to the data, or are still kind of on the fence about it, your job here is done, the resistance doesn't want you any more. If that's your kick then u-tube is over-saturated with these kind of nuts and bolts Zeitgeist style research for beginners, targeting those of us who are still blind to blinders we were forced to don. But if you're in the least bit savvy to the games being played out there, this work has a striking way of putting all those hours of stat finding together into one bite-sized, "We are so ******" morsel.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/75ZCHNYCNQ2VSPBNRZMPE4A4ZQ Earl

    Funny how the stupidest guy you know fooled you into thinking this had anything to do with N.Korea... That was an obvious ploy used to get people to watch it. If that subtle subterfuge drew you in and you actually watched the rattling good yarn you would have been able to distinguish that from some of the hints he gave you during dialogue. Since you did view his little piece of propaganda, AND you really considered it to hail from the Orient, AND you commented on it further publicizing his work... From where I'm sitting it looks like "Stupidest guy you know... 3...Pythus... 0"

  • KarlMarx WasRight

    It is good to hear this type of message from alternative sources. One can appreciate the scathing commentary on hyper-consumerism and corporate "person-hood" as a false reflection of "we the people." If a person (free individual) can decide for themselves what is "true," then moral relativism takes a "back seat" to what is considered prudent and proper. Karl Marx may be correct: a Utopia cannot exist without the consent of the proletariat, where every individual is equal regardless of class, inheritance, ability, or the means of production. A classless society where value is no longer the driving force. Perhaps, one day the masses can throw off the shackles of enslavement and take responsibility for their own individual actions, or lack thereof.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Oh, yeah, this really keeps me up at night frightful of "the shackles of enslavement".

  • wake up.

    People are sheep. Dumbed down by stupid tv while they rob us blind. Those Oprah fans are hilarious.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    I know that was meant to sound profound and deep, but...

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Caspar-William/563987133 Caspar William

    Some of the remarks are so flippant I had to laugh. I really enjoyed this.

  • Ann Rhodes

    Thanks, but no thanks. I'll keep on the 'shackles of enslavement' that facilitate my right to self determination. Self-interest is the driving force behind innovation, and it's something Marxist doctrines utterly fail at.

  • Airborne12

    Interesting,but he didnt show the new leader. When he went off to enjoy all the western imperalistic(ha ha ha) education that was offorded to him,at the expense of his people suffering. Im sure he enjoyed heat,electricity, meat,Sodas,women, and top self Booze(like father). Even though their both Butt ugly,and out of Shape. Tighten up your argument alittle! Why Hide your face,if you believe in your CAUSE?

    RLTW

  • Airborne12

    Not as Free as we think, I agree! Also not as innocent!!!!!

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Kim Jong-il wears a Rolex. They don't make those in North Korea.

  • KarlMarx WasRight

    Fear is a powerful emotion, thank you for your need to reply with insightful sarcasm.

  • KarlMarx WasRight

    You are welcome, or unwelcome as the case may be..."if a person (free individual) can decide for themselves what is 'true,' then moral relativism takes a 'back seat' to what is considered prudent and proper" speaks of "self-interest" in a non-egotistical manner, and the "shackles of enslavement" simply refer to the need of an individual, who is free, to make rational choices, which in turn can have a positive and profound effect upon society as a whole. I agree Marxist doctrine possess shortcomings, but Karl Marx may have been right: Utopia (Equality) cannot exist without the acquiescence of each individual's self-interest as an aggregate (collective).

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    True Marxism only exists on paper. North Korea is a good example of why the West doesn't want to touch communism with a 10 foot pole.

  • KarlMarx WasRight

    You said, "frightful of "the shackles of enslavement"...perhaps, you are the one projecting fear. Again, thank you for your need to respond.

  • Airborne12

    yes! But you really have to concider,how the regime,eats and sleeps,while their people Suffer!!! Sure he made you think. i personaly thought the most interesting ,while sad!! Was when our boys pulled the family out, at gun point and the little GIRL.

    Was crying ,and having to HOLD her HANDS up,like a s*** head Criminal! Has a former Ranger, my Heart went out to her!! That's WAR, but she touched my HEART!

    Also the butchering og the Dolphins!

  • KarlMarx WasRight

    In response to a post by gallowaygrumblefield

  • KarlMarx WasRight

    In response to a post by gallowaygrumblefield

  • KarlMarx WasRight

    Founded in 1919, the Communist Party USA has championed the struggles for democracy, labor rights, women’s equality, racial justice and peace for nearly one-hundred years. The Communist Party has an unparalleled history in the progressive movement of the United States, from the struggle against Jim Crow segregation to the organizing of industrial unions. A better and peaceful world is possible - a world where people come before profits.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    How can I be the one projecting, when you are the one suggesting we should be "fearful" of some hypothetical "shackles" that only exists in your own mind, and that doesn't make me lose sleep? Peculiar thing about Marxists, that their intellect doesn't allow them to grasp satire, and their humorlessness makes them fearful of the shadow of their own backsides.

  • Chimosabe

    All-in-all, I recommend this to be used in the elementary education curriculum.It sure beats the propaganda and the BS being passed off as "the truth" in schools today and in the last 100 years. And to make it clear at the same time that the pot IS calling the kettle black.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    One person's "truth" is another person's "propaganda". Anyway, I would recommend "A People's History of the United States" by Howard Zinn, if you are looking for alternative versions of history.

  • Chimosabe

    DONE, Thanks

    Subject: [topdocumentaryfilms] Re: Propaganda

  • Natalie Henderson

    i tried to watch this North Korean Propaganda about so called propaganda and am disgusted. As a psychologist i know that the human mind is easily persuaded, but we all know that commercials and marketing are there to get us to buy stuff. we know this, but sneakers and McDonald's cannot keep a person from voicing their opinion and fighting for human rights. We as "Westerners" can go to any school and learn how advertisers market products to us and how to get people to buy goods. However North Koreans cannot go to school or read a book and learn that their country uses propaganda and marketing everyday to keep them docile and unable to voice there own opinion. Well actually they can voice there opinion as long as it is the same as their beloved eternal leader. And while some peoples truths are others propaganda there are basic human rights that every person in this world should have, and the citizens of North Korea don't have these.

  • Natalie Henderson

    right on! There will never be enough to pacify marxists. Dont they see that Communism will NEVER work.Russia is the ultimate example. Absolute power corrupts absolutely is so true. there will always be some greedy people who want more power and others. When the common man is denied basic rights of freedom of speech press and thought no good willl ever come of it.

  • http://www.facebook.com/harri.pihl Harri Pihl

    Let me say three things first:
    - Spinal Tap
    - Yes Men
    - Michael Moore

    In my opinion Propaganda is actually a very good film particularly for one specific reason: It works due to our prejudice about the North Korea propaganda.

    And that is why we don't actually realize the relation to the three things mentioned above.

  • conor pullen

    Natalie Henderson you are with out a doubt r*tarded if you honestly believe in your statement, yes North Korea has its flaws but America is the most corrupt, selfish and ignorant country in the world you're all mindless zombies who believe everything the government says and what they see on TV, America the greatest country of all I think not try the dumbest.

  • Moshe202

    She loves her country and can't see that others love their country too.

  • Moshe202

    _____________@ Natalie Henderson: if in the US people are not “docile” and able to “voice their own opinion” how is it that the US has gotten involved in so many catastrophic wars in direct opposition to the will of its people. If a nation-state can invade and occupy a foreign state without the backing of its people it must have a very particular definition of “democracy”. You claim to be a psychologist but have you been to North Korea to learn about their particular culture and traditions – to learn why citizens of the DPRK behave as they do. You say: “We as westerners”. Who are you referring to ‘US citizens’? Firstly, Marxism as a philosophical movement emerged among young intellectuals in Germany in the mid-19 Century – it is in itself a fusion of various western schools of thought. It is awkwardly humanistic of Koreans to have taken an interest and adopted an ideology, such as scientific socialism, so embedded in western thought. You seem to think the term “westerners” refers to people who live in the suburbs of Beverly Hills.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Talk about "mindless zombie", that's a very naive and ignorant statement. It's so childish as to be completely meaningless. Beyond that, it's not even close to true. Until you've done some research into the lives of people in North Korea, you don't know what a corrupt government is, or even the meaning of "mindless zombies".

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000486519168 Erin Edlow

    Natalie, propaganda goes f bareyond commercial advertising. If anything it's more closely tied to political agendas. Propaganda is essentially anything that's used to persuade people to think and behave a certain way on any particular subject. "Westerners" does not mean capitalist. The film presents a topic i've been quite interested in and although i'm not a supporter of N. Korea, it brings up a lot of truths about how the digital media is used as a form of social control.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    There is also negative and positive propaganda. For instance, the US does broadcast propaganda in the form of Radio America, where the messages are positive ones about life outside of Communist borders. They still do this (I think) with Fat Albert, the big white blimp that floats high in the sky over Cudjoe Key, to broadcast to Cuba. I think there is positive propaganda that is displayed and broadcast to North Korea.

    Negative propaganda, on the other hand, isn't intended to make your own country look good by comparison, but to inform you of how bad your country or way of life is. Like they say, it's easy to put other people down, but much harder to build other people up. That's what's going on with this documentary. It is meant to make you think you are doing it all wrong. The problem is, it fails to show just how much oppressed dictatorships like North Korea suck by comparison to what they are criticizing.

  • steve button

    Young "Jewish" intellectuals - which is highly relevant to the grave situation we find ourselves in....think about why....

  • steve button

    Well said, conor

  • steve button

    Pure rubbish, Natalie...

    You're still in junior HS I'm surmising...

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Considering the numbers of Europeans and Middle Easterners who emigrate to the U.S., vacation here, buy property, do business, communicate with their relatives, I don't think you will find more love of any other country by foreigners, if numbers mean anything.

  • uuddlrlraass

    I apologize for my fellow americans. i can only urge the world to view the american people for the sick captive population that we are. Too long has the oppressed been pitted against former oppressor in a cyclical struggle serving to keep ALL people of the world docile. True hatred for American ignorance will only usher in the next era of human injustice. As it has always been, the current oppressing population finds themselves willingly trapped in jobs or unwillingly in prisons or death. Im just saying try and forgive us, we could be you....

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Speak for yourself. Your self-loathing emasculated opinion of yourself is a defect, not an asset. I feel sorry for you, it sounds like you are suffering from that "American Taliban" disease. Why don't you just try out North Korea for a year before stabbing your own country in the back. North Korea just posted a propaganda simulation of New York City under attack. That's the kind of government you are glorifying. History does not look favorably on your kind. Look at Lee Harvey Oswald, or John Walker Lindh.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003733001161 Amber Romain

    love of money is what brings the majority of people to usa. they all leave when it's time to retire.
    Besides, propaganda is also part of the reason people go there. What do you think the term American Dream is? if that wasn't founded via psychological operations then nothing ever was.
    Unless, of course, you're talking about the mexicans, where US weapons increase gang violence and cause a number of other issues. Who wouldn't want to leave there.
    Excessive pride in your country is one of the key things that propaganda is about then you see nothing clearly and think every other country is at fault when you perverse it.
    “Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it” -Hitler on propaganda, he might have been twisted but he was a master at manipulating people.
    American Dream and Land of the Free. it's big, simple and it was posted everywhere when it started, now it's just repeated constantly so it works on it's own.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    "love of money is what brings the majority of people to usa. they all leave when it's time to retire." - This paints all people with a broad brush. I know foreigners who come to America for the money, and I know foreigners who come to America for education, and I know foreigners who come to America to live and vacation. If you don't know anyone from each of these categories, then who is spouting the Big Lie now?

    "American Dream and Land of the Free. it's big, simple and it was posted everywhere when it started, now it's just repeated constantly so it works on it's own." - We hear this kind of exaggerated propaganda a lot from people who have never actually been to America. They pose the false dichotomy that you can only enjoy the United States if you intend to get rich, that there is no U.S. culture worth living outside of the pursuit of money. This really is the most naive form of propaganda.

    The world has changed, the playing fields have leveled in this post-colonial era. Even so, how many North Koreans do you actually know, compared to Americans? A simple comparison of the extreme cultures is a no-brainer. How many non-Koreans visit North Korea for any reason? How about Iran? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the differences between western life and isolation are real, not imaginary.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003733001161 Amber Romain

    hence the term majority instead of everyone. And I never mentioned a thing about culture.

    and it was propaganda, the posters were everywhere during the times it began. if you're going to take a dump on every other country at least have the decency to look at your own without bias. Tell me what the american dream really is or what land of the free really means. because a large chunk of countries have the same opportunities and are free to obey less severe laws O.o It's just a line that doesn't mean anything special when compared to other 'first world' nations or just in general and it can actually apply to any nation, even the most oppressed.

    as for north korea, I never mentioned it so i'm not even going to bother with that. Plenty of problems there, no doubt about that.

    my only point is that propaganda is in every country and if you think the first priority of a government isn't to keep it's population under control then you have some issues.

    I have no real problems with usa but the propaganda is there and it's used on it's own population just like in every other country. I'll use the 'peacekeeping' missions in canada as an example of some fine propaganda. not like that's an overly large military on a conquest rampage or anything, but the population bought the term peacekeeping for quite awhile before they realized there wasn't much peace doing associated with those missions. /shrug. We're all people subject to the idiotic behavior of a minority of the population that are in power some have more vile methods but most of the governments have done some pretty twisted things to this planet and the humans that just want to live on it for the time they'll be here. Sadly things would be much worse if we didn't have babysitters.

    apparently not even worth the time anymore, you just randomly talk about anything and make up things as you go when my points were obvious.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    "And I never mentioned a thing about culture." Well, actually you did. You said "America," but now we can't take what you write at face value?

    "and it was propaganda, the posters were everywhere during the times it began. " - So, by your logic a travel brochure is propaganda.

    "as for north korea, I never mentioned it so i'm not even going to bother with that." - Doing! Wake up, please, that is what the film is about. Or did you not bother to watch it, or even read the title of this page???

    "my only point is that propaganda is in every country and if you think the first priority of a government isn't to keep it's population under control then you have some issues." - It sounds like you're the one with issues if you think "all countries are created equal." You are introducing the fallacy of false equivalency. North Korea: We are in fact talking about a country whose people are starving to death, who don't have the basic necessities of life, whose whole basic needs pyramid is upside down so that Kim Jung Un can make atomic weapons. This isn't a problem with "all countries".

  • teskar

    I live in South Korea. I firmly believe this documentary was meant for South Koreans. There is a big missionary culture here and hundreds of groups that hand out religious propaganda. This is NK propaganda meant to drum up support in the south. There are valid points that any one can agree with, and is done in the same vein as documentaries we're used to in the west. There aren't many of these documentaries in the South, so NK found the perfect format to peddle propaganda here.

  • stop__and__think

    Incredible look into how propaganda works to grow seeds of doubt and add fuel to the fire. I can't believe how many people in the comments swallowed it though. You do realize that the first half of this documentary gains your trust, and the next half is total nonsense; stretching half-truths and conspiracy theories to the limit, right?

    While this video highlights omitting truths and whitewashing, it does it itself. It speaks about hypocrisy, but is guilty of it as well. It never admits any fault of communism, nor the near HUNDRED MILLION deaths due to communist famine and war in the past century. North Koreans are literally eating each other because they are starving so badly.

    Nothing of Pol Pot, or Stalin starving Ukraine and murdering 30 million, nothing of Mao doing the same and killing more. They paint every "free" nation as an oppressive one, but not a whisper of the Tibetan struggle. The US is a police state, but never took steps like communism with secret police and kidnappings even at it's worst points. It is also humorous to hear Chomsy and Orwell quoted as if they are in agreement with communism, quite the contrary. Chomsky rails on the former and current communist states as well, just not as often because we already know the tragedies of it.

    There is something beautiful about capitalism and democracy, just as well as there are beautiful things about communism. The problem is not with the system, but with absolutism and the ones who execute these systems.

    This pairs well with "The Bloody History of Communism" which takes steps to demonize communism in a similar fashion that this propaganda film demonizes the so called free western countries.

  • stop__and__think

    The only thing relevant in your post is that there are plenty of hateful scumbags on this earth, not the vast jewish conspiracy you are alluding to.
    Also I think you missed the entire logic of the post, since he was touting communism, or rather scientific socialism, as having been a movement by young intellectuals. We are not in a grave situation because of communism. Your post is of a different logic designed to plant yet another seed of hate and separation.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Always some neo-nazi troll trying to float their trial balloons on these boards.

  • kyle w

    Surprisingly well-researched with many good points. I went into this film thinking I was gonna see some crazy North Korean BS, but instead it showcased all the BS the US and its cronies have to offer.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    LOL! Yeah, "BS" does describe this video.

  • awful_truth

    Propaganda??? After watching this documentary, 2 thngs first come to mind.
    1) Basically speaking, (with several exceptions) What is stated in this documentary is historically, and ethically accurate from any intelligent state of reflection.
    2) With that said, if the alternative is to live a life like those of the North Koreans, (at least what I understand it to be) is not an option unless one equates living with just existing. There is such a thing as a happy medium. (equilibrium)
    If this doc is to feed the north, or south Koreans a taste of western reality, they have done a good job. What is hypocritical is to expose the lack of democracy in the western culture,(which truly exists) as an acceptance of no democracy in North Korea as the only alternative.
    The only thing that makes sense to me regarding North Korea, is their willfull choice not be forced into corporate globalization. The U.S doesn't want NK to have nuclear weapons, but since the U.S spends more than all countries combined on conventional arms, the only way for NK to prevent an invasion, is the threat of effective retaliation. North Korea will never launch a nuke at anyone, because they know what the outcome will be. What scares the U.S is if the North Koreans feel threatened, they could use a pre-emptive strike against the U.S (who set the standard with Iraq) by placing nukes in shipping containers, and blowing up the U.S ports, bringing their economy to a grinding halt, with no clear evidence of who did it. If I spent the last 60 years meddling in foreign countries killing millions, I would be a little paranoid too.
    As a Canadian, I have no delusions regarding the reality of my own country, and for as much as I may not like some of our own history, I am happy with the life I have been able to live; Not because of political, or religious ideology, but because I was born in a time, and place where I didn't have to dodge bombs, landmines, or worry about starvation, or a level of freedom of speech that can hardly be found elsewhere without ramifications. (if I had been born anywhere else, they would have shot me by now)
    So, it comes down to a simple choice. (to me at least) Either greed and poverty get dealt with once and for all globally, or big brother better get prepared for some real blowback with dire consequences. Since greed (evil) is running the world, and the most profitable business is theft, (war) I am not very hopeful that humanity will realize that morality has not kept pace with technology, and the only chance for us not to self destruct, is to be attacked by an alien race, forcing us to put our petty differences aside, and work together for the benefit of all people. With that said, even if we succeeded, it would only be short lived, because that is the nature of evil, greedy people. (worst of all addictions) Without endless vigilance, they are always waiting to pounce, the second you drop your guard. The only thing that gives me faith, ( very little hope) is the amount of goodness that must truly exist, and that has kept evil at bay for as long as it has.
    Ultimately, the only ideology that has any traction is a Star Trek philosophy. (thanks Gene) If humanity doesn't embrace something similiar, or the benevolent equivalent, than it is best we find our evolutionary culdisac (extinction) before the cancer we are becoming spreads any further! Live long, and prosper everyone.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Take a step back for a moment, take a deep breath, and consider what propaganda is. It is half truth. It is selective truth. You concentrate on all the bad stuff, you pack it into a tight wad, and you feed it to an unsuspecting population that lacks the critical thinking skills to ask where all the good stuff is. Really, if living in the West was this bad, we would all be banging on the doors at the border of North Korea trying to get in.

  • awful_truth

    @gallowaygrumblefield:
    I agree with your assessment, which is why I mentioned the hypocracy of the documentary's message regarding their dismissal of western democracy, when they have none of their own; and the NK's lack of substance in life (just existance) as the only alternative to what western culture has to offer. Since the documentary makes no reference to the lifestyle of North Koreans, (just attacks the west) it is just propaganda, but I wouldn't worry about South Koreans (or anyone for that matter) converting to the lifestyle of the North Koreans based on this doc, accurate, or not.
    You must admit, it sure painted an accurate/nasty picture of the bad aspects of western society, and although that it far easier than mentioning the good things, one has to remind themselves what we are fed regarding North Koreans is also only negative. The fact that we have not seen, or can think of anything good about their lifestyle, (something good must exist) only emphasizes our own brainwashing from western propaganda. Their reluctance to join the global pyramid scheme may very well be a good thing in itself, and a reminder to the rest of the world to keep their own governments in check. Something to think about. Either way, I respect your position (and agree with it) and appreciate the reply. Take care!

  • Chris Dougherty

    I'm surprised how many people in the comments

  • Chris Dougherty

    Given its title, I'm surprised how many people in the comments section got fooled by this mediocre piece of propaganda.

    Do you really believe this documentary, in this form, is broadcast in North Korea? Of course it isn't. The North Korean leadership would never allow its people to see store shelves so full and consumer goods so available, regardless of the purported evils the voice over is discussing.

    I'd ask North Koreans to confirm my last paragraph, but of course that's not possible since North Korea strictly limits internet access to senior Party members only.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    "The North Korean leadership would never allow its people to see store shelves so full and consumer goods so available" - Good point!

  • Mathieu Doucet

    maybe it was not meant for the North Korean people

  • DocViewer

    I think Chris' point is that this doc has nothing to do with North Korea. It didn't come from North Korea, it wasn't meant for North Koreans. It was made by someone in the west with a made up myth around it. It's the Blair Witch Project of documentaries.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    I think you're exactly right.

  • CarimboHanky

    this could be north korean made propaganda but for sure is not ment to be seen inside north korea... too many things forbidden to be shown to the people like shelves full of goods and other stuff the people have never seen...

  • Schlittel Billet

    half truths and conspiracy theories? or just suggesting that you should research these things yourself and not trust mainstream biased media?
    Chomsky was not quoted as supporting communism, he was pointing out major flaws with representative democracy and corruption in large corporations.
    pol pot was funded by the us, also not mentioned along with plenty of genocides / eugenics / murders of innocents in the imperialist pursuit.
    regardless of who the movie was intended for we should all consider it, and the effects of our materialistic ideals

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    * eye roll* Yes, western society is evil, and Monsanto, and GE, and the CIA in everyone's business. Let's just pack up and move to North Korea or Iran where life is Heaven. Even Chomsky has, perplexingly, not quite defected to Gaza, but chooses to reside in the splendorous academic opulence of Lexington, Massachusetts.

  • Schlittel Billet

    most of western society is blissfully unaware of the grievances that western society imposes on the 'lesser' countries and people of the world.
    to acknowledge it and then consciously do nothing about it demonstrates the ever increasing selfishness of our society.
    with respect to your choice to remain part of the problem, we would ask that you at least offer some support to those who chose to do something about it.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    You're providing the example of propaganda that I defined earlier. A skillful delivery of half-truths.

  • Robin Dreher

    Guys- do your research, the movie is a project by a New Zealand filmmaker. Not actually NorthKorean, a statement on propoganda, "propoganda squared, if you will"

  • Vanessa

    Why don't you all just ignore the fact that it's North Korean and think about the video and what it's trying to say. I believe that all of this is true and that all of this is population control and the governments wants and needs for people to be like robots, to be easily controlled and to easily believe what they want us to believe in. The Americans are even inventing microchips to be inserted into us, if you don't believe me then google "RFID chip". They are also poisoning our food and not telling us how bad it is for us, this is called GMO. These chemicals can highly negatively impact our health and slowly kill us by damaging our bodies. Which brings me back to population control.

    If you're so worried and concerned that this is North Korean, then look at other videos, just google it, google about GMO, RFID chips, even google about 9/11 and how it's fake and inside job! Google everything because pretty much everything in the world is one big lie.

    Open up your mind and realize what's really going on in this world.

  • beYOU

    Wow, as an American I'm fully aware of the facts stated in this Korean propaganda film. However, what about all the insane propaganda against it's own citizens? "Our great & powerful, beloved leader".. lol.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    North Korea has an upside-down set of priorities. Instead of its leader doing everything he can to make his country happy and prosperous, his subjects give their whole life to make this one man happy and prosperous.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    "It's all true" - Well, more like it's all half the truth. Which is a good definition of propaganda.

  • Vanessa

    that's your opinion

  • Vanessa

    this video was made by a south korean who lives in New Zealand..

  • AprilOneal

    Riiiiight. You're aware of the facts, yet you call this propaganda. They're proud of their leaders because they haven't been indoctrinated and hypnotized by the BS flowing from the US. I don't see any value in distracting from the message in this film.. especially if you agree with it. Just maybe their leaders effectively protect the people and their minds.

  • tme1991

    The description of the video here threw me off quite a bit. As a fan of documentaries, especially those tackling the big picture problems (conspiracy, world economy, politics), I watched it anyway, expecting a North-Korean-esque anti-America video, propaganda itself by definition. (edit: i am aware this may not have been made by NK, regardless the message is valid IMHO)

    That being said, the video hardly ever attempts to compare the world superpowers with North Korea itself. There is no element of self-promotion typified by NK propaganda. If indeed this was produced in NK, it's likely an attempt at pointing out the hypocrisy of North Korea's reputation as an iron-handed dictatorship thriving on deception, while the USA is far from innocent in the same field.

    I echo Vanessa's message to look beyond the intention of the documentary, and into some of the facts. Like EVERY conspiracy themed documentary, there are loose facts and quotations taken completely out of context, but within the pile lies a lot of truth.

    Do your own research, learn to cite sources, and come to your own conclusions. Just as how everyone thinks they have a good sense of humor, I consider myself to be a relatively competent critical thinker. Everyone does. But having bought into conspiracy theories in documentaries based mostly on entertainment and excessive distrust (e.g. anything by Alex Jones) in the past, I only now realize how narrow minded and easily swayed I was. The more you look, the more you learn.

  • Enzu

    +2

    Question to any U.S. citizens here on TDF: Are the Israelis atrocities against the Palestinians really (that) censored in the US?

    And how can the United States proclaim it is "a bastion for freedom" and all that crap, when it supports a nation (Israel) that clearly, and with no shame, commits the same horrendous crimes to the Palestinian people, that the Nazis did to them (Jews) during WW2?

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    "Israelis atrocities "? Name some (or one) and cite your sources. We can discuss it.

    "And how can the United States proclaim it is "a bastion for freedom" and all that crap, when it supports a nation (Israel) that clearly, and with no shame, commits the same horrendous crimes to the Palestinian people, that the Nazis did to them (Jews) during WW2?" - So, Israel herds Palestinians by the hundreds of thousands into box cars, rails them to concentration camps and gasses them by the millions? Can you please point to some example, and cite your sources? Your statements are in serious need of fact checking.

  • Enzu

    Are you serious? Really?? You don´t recognize the atrocities commited by the state of Israel towards the people of Palestine?

    Have a look at the Oscars-nominated documentary on the subject named "5 broken cameras":

    The atrocities are happening all the time, every day!

    I suggest YOU do some fact checking!

    Why don´t you do an easy google-search on the subject and you will get tons of information about the subject. There also are some docs. on this site about the topic,..

    I also strongly suggest you do a REALITY-CHECK, because you seem to be sadly ignorant about what is going on in Israel/Palestine.

  • Wanderer

    i suppose you have done substantial research about the lives of the people in north korea? of course you are not parroting what your government is telling you.

    and of course the u.s. government would never lie/use propaganda itself, only other governments do that... right?

  • Wanderer

    "However North Koreans cannot go to school or read a book and learn that their country uses propaganda and marketing everyday to keep them docile and unable to voice there own opinion."

    You know this how?

  • Guest

    This is a New Zealand fake documentary

  • Frank Briguccia

    If you watched the whole Doc. you'd notice it had to made in North Korea. Funny how just 6 months ago our Government was attempting to go to war with them. More shocking to me is that we didn't because most everyone supported the idea.

  • anukeya

    Or, They can go there Physically and do the Checking.. :)

  • Alex

    When will it all end?...the lies, the deception, the killing, the despair, the greed...

  • arjun sohani

    A bit strange is that this great documentary was made in N.Korea!! Don't the N. Korean people realize the depth of **** they are in?

  • Rafael Oprinsen

    I look at everything in the most intersubjective way possible and I also came to the conclusion that most of this film is true due to the video footage backing it up, me seeing/hearing the stuff being said here also from other people and sources, and finally because the filmmakers have no obvious gain in making all the statements made here

  • Rafael Oprinsen

    the problem is that a 'peaceful' sheet is put infront of our eyes causing us to percieve life as pretty laid back and free of serious worries like bombings or whatever. We believe that going to school and learning how to listen to teachers and remember irrelevant information for exams will lead us to a good job and a nice life. We dont SEE what our COMBINED actions cause throughout the REST of the world. Sure, life isnt all that bad in Europe and in the Americas and certain parts of Asia, even though it should be way different. But who is suffering the most are the third world countries where NEO COLONIALISM is used by our leaders.
    may all evil die a painful, cancerous death and may the entity of yourself and the MASSES drive this evil force into the abyss.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    If it's only half the story, the bad half that you want other people to get the impression of, then it's as good as a lie. If I tried to teach you about love, that it's all fighting and back biting and verbal abuse and heart break and heart ache, then I am telling you a half truth, and I am lying. That's what we have in this propaganda piece. That IS propaganda.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Half truth is lying. Half truth IS propaganda.

  • Rafael Oprinsen

    The opinions expressed are only that, opinions. The facts however are mostly true. If I'd take the time, I could back each and every one up.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Facts don't lie, but liars use facts. Fact mining IS propaganda.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Seriously, quit taking it for granted that Israel is "committing atrocities". Please be specific in your accusations, and cite your sources. This is the technique of the BDS movement, which is itself the unwitting shill for Hamas and Hezbollah. I have heard BDSers say things like, "Israel kills thousands and thousands of Palestinians." Yet, when I press them, they can't come up with any citation for this blood libel.

    The BDSers are a very violent group of anti-free speech thugs who use threats, violence, and intimidation to shove their Jew hatred agenda down the throats of university students in the US and Canada.

    I can provide you with direct quotes from the leaders of your movement:

    "We oppose a Jewish state" - Omar Barghouti, BDS founder

    "The real aim of BDS is to bring down the state of Israel" - As'ad AbuKhalil, leading BDS activities

    "BDS does mean the end of the Jewish state" - Ahmed Moor, leading BDS activist

    "BDS will help bring about the defeat of Zionist Israel, and victory for Palestine"

    "Shoot the Jew" - chant by BDS activists in South Africa

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Been there. Checked. You're full of crap. ;)

    Israeli Arabs are very pro-Israel. They are also represented in the Israeli Defense Force, and in Parliament. They can work and live in relative equality in Israel, the planet's only Jewish state.

    On the other hand, why don't you visit any of the two dozen Muslim countries that make up 30% of the world, half of Africa, most of the Middle East, from Morocco to Pakistan, and give us an informed opinion of what it's like to be a non-Muslim minority in any of those countries. I think you'll find every atrocity you accuse Israel of in those places. ;)

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    The byline of the movie's producers says "Prepare for indoctrination". That's hilarious, because it is they who intend to indoctrinate you.

    "Propaganda has been described as ‘1984 meets The Blair Witch Project’, ‘A mouthful of scary porridge’, and ‘Even better than Triumph of The Will.’"

    Ok, comparing it to Blair Witch Project says a lot. It's fake; mockumentary. Like "Mermaids: The Untold Story".

  • Alex

    Does it matter who made the document? Besides, the movie doesn't say anything new. It is a compilation of America's history of voilence, lies and greed.

  • Alex

    Those so called atrocities are easy to give an identity, but is mutch harder to find out how they started. Alot of the unrest are created by the west, to devide and conquerer a third world country. They create a false flag attack to start a civil war, they blame the leader(s) and use the media to confuse the public. And making them believe that those people need to be saved by a western country, with so called western morals and standards. Instead they sent there cooperations to take over land and use it for own profit.

  • Alex

    I agree, but i also wonder if the people in N-K are truely feel free to make there own choice. Even if it means if the choice is "bad" for them. I think we shouldn't need "leaders", but people who arrange s*it. Like free energy, food, water and housing. People who can help the majority to benefit from and sustain our planet were we live on.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    And there you have it. It's propaganda. Because when it comes down to it, we can demonstrate the same thing about any other nation we want to selectively data mine for negativity.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    If those alleged atrocities are so easy to identify, then why is it like pulling teeth getting you to name one that we can discuss? Your anti-Israel propaganda is as out of proportion to reality as the concentrated "baddyness" of this documentary that you seem to uncritically acclaim.

  • Alex

    Wait, I think you confuse me with the other Alex. I am the Alex who wrote the replay above and at the top of the post's. Sorry for the misunderstanding. First it is not my propaganda, second I wrote 3 or 4 posts and you already find it pulling teeth. And third, I don't have anything against Israel or a on another country. I am just trying to explain that every action has it's origen. And it seems to mee, that the West has a big role in all the wars, especially America. I don't care who killed the most people in the most brutal way's. Who started this s*it, who is account able. Not the civilians, but those fucking greedy bastards: rockerfellar, bilderberg, illuminatie, scull and bones, or what ever. Its the one procent or less who make the final decision. And where do they live and come from?

  • Enzu

    I just gave you a source in my reply.

    BDS?? Never heard of it...

    Open your eyes fool.

    Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.

    Martin Luther King, Jr.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    You make a claim you can't support, and then give an unreliable source, and you believe that unreliable source because they say things you like the sound of, whether or not it's true doesn't matter because fact checking is too hard. That means you let other people do your thinking for you. Talk about fools! I think you're the one with the plank in your eye. Oh, and by the way?

    Martin Luther King, Jr: "When people criticize Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism"

    Martin Luther King, Jr: "Peace for Israel means security, and we must stand with all our might to protect its right to exist, its territorial integrity. I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality."

    Dr. Clarence B. Jones, King’s lawyer and close friend.Israel has made mistakes,” Jones said – including the continuation of settlement building, he later told reporters – but that “doesn’t mean that gives you carte blanche to say ‘Israel is an apartheid state’ or ‘Israel is a racist state.’”

    Take that, knucklehead!

  • Elusive

    Good documentary. Mass media is brainwashing american people into believing government lies and deception. The mass media most effective tool used by the government to control and manipulate the public. Average Americans are brainwashed into fighting fake wars which ultimately benefit giant corporations and the business elite. There should be more transparency and openness rather being like North Korea. Even North Korean government uses the very same techniques.

  • Samuel Morrissey

    The answer my friend, is blowin' in the wind.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Oh my God, you drank the Kool-Aid. Yes, it's all a government conspiracy, and you're the only one who knows all the truth because you watched a propaganda film. LOL!

  • Elusive

    Kind of reply expected from a f*** like you. When did I say I know all the truth. I am researching all this stuff for a very long time. This documentary said many things I already knew. People like you will never learn go and watch junk entertainment if thats your life.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    *face palm* This film IS propaganda, and you swallowed it hook, line, and sinker! Of course they say things that "sound right" or that "you already knew". That's the point, deliver a film full of pre-selected half-truths, only the bad half, and simpletons will buy into it as if it was the whole truth. That's how propaganda works!

    You call me the fool? Then how is that between the two of us, I'm the only one using critical thinking skills?

  • Elusive

    lol you aren't using any critical thinking. This film is not propaganda but exposes it. The only thing I don't like is the North Korean stuff other parts are excellent. You seem to be watching too much television and have got hurt after watching the reality of your beloved tool. What the half truth here figure them out.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    The film is most definitely propaganda, and apparently you're one of those that it's targeting. as for critical thinking skills, you buy into its message too easily, so I don't believe you are up to the challenge of discussing the meaning of critical thinking. I feel sorry for you. Hopefully the next generation will be better equipped to examine propaganda with more circumspect than you have demonstrated.

  • Elusive

    More nonsense from you. Just look at yourself you are trolling here for the past 2 years this clearly shows you are a fool. The film had very good points. You are the one who is targeted by the mass media and the elite. You didn't answered my question regarding whats the half truths in the film. Answer of piss off.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Listen to yourself , kid:
    "Ooooh Big Bad America has materialism! Everybody there is a materialist! I know because this wise documentary I watched taught me all about it!"

    "Oooh, look at america! It's got racism and murder and a military establishment and capitalism and it's all so bad because I saw it on a low budget propaganda documentary!

    There must be some better place where butterflies are free and unicorns are happy! Maybe North Korea!

    LOL!

  • awful_truth

    Perhaps you would be kind enough to tell us something good about North Korea. If you can't, it is because you have been spoon fed FOX news all your life. At what point are you willing to question that which you have been told.
    I have no desire to live in North Korea, (I am Canadian) but at least I can recognize the nonsense our own country's feed us.
    P.S: (Here is one good thing about North Korea) They are not interested in supporting the global pyramid scheme (the world bank, the IMF) and sell themselves out like many of the countries in South America, who had to learn the hard way like Bolivia, where it is now illegal to catch the rainwater, because it is owned by the Bechtel corporation of San Francisco.
    (critical thinking my a**)

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Do you love North Korea because you watched Propaganda, or you love Propaganda because you were already a North Korea stooge? You ask me to say something good about North Korea. Here's something: Your beloved dictator Pillsbury Dough Boy hasn't been seen in one month. There, I said something good about your favorite tyrant state. Maybe you should move there, I hear they have a great weight loss program.

  • http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/about/ Vlatko

    You don't need FOX to learn the sad truth about North Korea. Use whatever sources you like you'll reach to the same conclusion: rampant corruption, malnourishment, no infrastructure, medieval executions, and lunatic(s) in charge.

  • awful_truth

    I thought I made it clear I had no desire to live in North Korea. (I wasn't defending it) I was making reference to being able to recognize our own government's propaganda, as well as those we already have contempt for. Your attempt to make this a discussion about something different (misdirection) should be beneath you.

  • awful_truth

    Your quite right on all counts. As I stated to GGF, I was not defending North Korea, only reminding others to reflect on our own government, and media's propaganda. The day we never question the obvious, will only have negative consequences. Take care Vlatko.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    I don't know what your point is, really. "recognize our own government's propaganda" - News flash! Every government propagandizes, big deal? It's pretty naive to beat someone else's drum against your own country because "we are materialists". The funny thing about those other countries putting out these caricatures? Their leaders are all wearing Rolexes and driving Rolls Royces. Hmmm....

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    "You didn't answered my question regarding whats the half truths in the film. " That's pretty funny. So in your educated opinion, this film showed exactly how all Americans and all of America is, without any bias? I guess we know who they make this propaganda for.

  • awful_truth

    The point of recognizing one's own government, and media propaganda, is a reminder that countries like North Korea are merely responding to their own situation, which is one hell of a lot worse than where we live, and very likely is occurring from the financial oppression of western influence. Another good example is Cuba, which has been embargoed from the U.S for 60 years. (not by Canada by the way) The people do not choose to live worse, nor does it mean that the country's political ideology is inferior, only that they are oppressed because they refuse to play ball with the powers that be. Just because North Korea's leader wears Rolexes, only confirms that they have fewer people reaping the rewards,(larger ghettos) but you can be damn sure they still exist (ghettos that is) in every country in the world.
    P.S: Is it okay to reveal how terrible North Koreans live, but not to acknowledge the corrupt/oppressive aspects of western society? If I am reading your position correctly, you are not interested in righteousness or morality, your just happy to reap the benefits of being on the winning side, and call down those who are less fortunate! Did I miss anything?

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    I agree with the substance of what you are saying, but there are important qualifiers for anyone who takes such a myopic view of a film or other media, like the one under discussion. Yes, the U.S. has dominated, often forcibly, its trade on other countries at the expense of their traditional way of life and culture. But North Korea isn't living anything traditionally, not even their present poverty, which they really don't have to be living in, except by the choice of its dictatorship who chooses to invest heavily in a military at the cost of its own peasantry. So much for the party of the proletariat.

    Cuba: When I was in college we had many self-described intellectual liberals always shouting for the right of Fidel, and that bad old USA. But living in Miami these past many years, and knowing personally many Cuban exiles from the Mariela Boat Lift, I don't think Fidel is getting a bad rap, but the rap he deserves. His country is an economic sink hole. It doesn't have to be that way. Cuba could conceivably be both Communist and prosperous (I guess China is as close to the only living example of such a combination as any you can use to illustrate the possibility). Unfortunately, Cuba is also a dictatorship, and there are reasons why thousands have risked, and hundreds have died in rickety floating refrigerators (you can see what they came in at the Key West Botanical Gardens Mariela Boat Lift collection) to LEAVE Cuba. Most of those Cubans, B.T.W., form an enclave of the most conservative voters in the U.S. They have a social conscience, but detest the failed system they escaped. Are they, and people like them all over the U.S., represented in that little film above? No, I didn't think so. That's what makes it propaganda. That's what makes it half truth: It tells only half the story, but is trying to persuade you it is a comprehensive profile of an entire country.

  • awful_truth

    The irony of all these situations is that very little truth is ever broadcast. If you get a chance, check out a documentary called 'the war on democracy' hosted by John Pilger. It gives a detailed account of economic, and political interference in South America by the U.S, the impact on their populace, and considerations regarding the lies promoted at home.
    In regards to Cuba, I am sure that many of the people who left may have felt differently had they had the same economic opportunities, minus the embargo. I only say this because It has been my experience that living beyond poverty is essential for a contented populace. It is most common for people to have some patriotic feelings about their home country, until harsh conditions intervene. It is very easy to get people to blame one person, when they don't understand the nuances of the complete picture. (shoot the messenger)
    In reality, All countries are dictatorships; western countries will only maintain the illusion of democracy, until economic hardship eradicates that perception. While I am fortunate in my situation, (Canadian) it is important to me to remind myself that much of our stability is reliant on the corporate subjugation of others. When you consider that 3 out of 4 people worldwide live on less than 2 dollars a day, one can only wonder how 'our leadership' would respond if the tables were turned. I know how they react when it is threatened, and it isn't good.
    Now that corporatism has gone global, the U.S (including Canada) is quickly finding out they can't compete with the slave labor elsewhere, culminating in global slavery. (cheapest labor, higher profits - all other considerations are secondary -morality, the environment, etc)
    In the final analysis, corporatism (fascism) is a poor construct for global stability, and until this inequity is addressed, our destruction as a civilization is assured.
    Of course, all of this is just my opinion, but the writing is on the wall, and my concern is not for myself, but for the next generation. (I have had a good life, - so far)
    Take care GGF!

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    "In regards to Cuba, I am sure that many of the people who left may have felt differently had they had the same economic opportunities, minus the embargo. I only say this because It has been my experience that living beyond poverty is essential for a contented populace." - That's just it, though, that's exactly the difference. Cuba and North Korea can propagandize all they want, but they have a hard time making a case for why anybody would want to live there, much less move there.

    Consider that two countries, let's say the U.S. and China have opposite governing principles, but both provide their citizens with economic opportunities so that each can at least support the basic hierarchy of needs. We might be able to complain about the human rights violations of the other, and they, for their part, would level the same charges against us, and so it would go, all the while doing business with each other, but hardly calling for the peasantry in each to revolt against their government, and embargoes would only shoot us in the foot. In the U.S., at least, we can get away with protests and posting our complaints against our government in a blog. We have a so-called "liberal, mainstream media" (I think there's truth to this). Cuba and North Korea can manufacture all the "truthful" propaganda it wants, but not only do these countries not provide for the most essential needs (except for air and water), but you can't even talk about it openly. So,propagandize away, because no matter how much truth there is in these media crusades to get Americans to revolt or emigrate, our relative comfort outweighs the media hype about how bad we've got it.

  • smeer'n'off

    one of the best documentaries on this site. it gives westerners a perspective that someone from a different country has towards our way of life

  • michael

    the most intelligent documentary I watched. I wouldn't put it better. Exactly what I felt and thought without the ability to express it this way.

  • un_distracted

    I concur with Michael below, even though this is also propaganda it is based absolutely on truth, go through history and you will find the Western world has never had anything like democracy. The nearest we ever got was during the industrial revolution where we stood together to form unions against the tyranny that controlled us that seem to last until the 80's where our power was then usurped by de-regulation, corporatisation and finally globalisation under the disguise of supposed (free trade) which stamped out the rights of people in sovereign nations.Though the North Korean people are doing it tough they don't have corporations killing them by purchasing their poisonous products. They are also only 1 of 3 countries left on the planet without Zionist run central banks in their country who print money out of thin air, the biggest scam in human history. This scam allows them to bankrupt nations with an economic illusion, so the question remains who is the whole planet in debt to?????
    The real problem is that Russia has deregulated themselves from a communist country to a communist country run by oligarchs and basically that is where we are headed. Any of the 50+ year old people of the old USSR will tell you they are worse off now more than ever than they were under the old system. Around the planet we are now undergoing another transition into absolute fascism where we Will be divided at every level in society where we will accept a soft kill by our evil psychopathic anonymous puppet masters until the day we turn off the goggle box that was always meant to control the masses. people are indeed waking up whist others are comfortable with ignorance. The golden age ahead will not come without sacrifice, they say we are in this life to learn something, you better wake up quick before you slip into the next realm and remain entrapped.

  • trabecula

    Na, they just built the biggest concentration camp they could, locked 'em all inside and they "mow the lawn", as they say it, by bombing and killing in an indiscriminate fashion. They also occupy their land and allow their fellow citizens, civilians, to kill them with no accountability. You are the one in a serious need of fact checking.

  • trabecula

    Actually it is obvious you've never been to a muslim country. I've been to several and never "found" any of those atrocities you still deny Israel committed, though any well informed, non-biased, thinking human being does know they've been happening repeatedly.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    You and facts are obviously not very good friends. You would do well to actually crack open a history book of how the modern Middle East formed, rather than reading your childish Hamas propaganda posters, courtesy of your local BDS branch.

    Israel gave Gaza to the Israeli Arabs who didn't want to identify as Israeli citizens. Israel gave them the land in the interest of peace. The only country in the world to willingly give up land for peace. In exchange, the Gazans proceeded to elect Hamas as their overlords, and Hamas funneled all the incoming international humanitarian money into buying Qassam missiles and guns from Iran, which they immediately began firing at Israel, not even considering that Israel would fire back. Nobody made Hamas fire rockets and launch suicide attacks into Israel. They did that on their own volition. Gaza had access to all the resources to build their economy, and they were given the benefit of the doubt, that they wanted to succeed. They didn't, they blew it on weapons, exactly like North Korea does.

  • trabecula

    Did you actually read my post?? If you did, which part of it is not a fact and where did you contest it? Oh, nowhere! And the "facts" you posted now are not even facts, you seem to be the one who could benefit from a good history book. I won't lose a second more with you, as it is obvious by your previous verborreha that one can't reason with you! I've never defended Hamas, as I've never defended nazis, be them german, american or israeli. Btw, hope you've figured out this documentary was made by westerners!

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Yes, I read your list of Hamas talking points. Not very factual, as I said. You haven't given one actual fact, because it is obvious you have not read one page of modern Middle East history. A tip: Propaganda posters at an anti-Israel rally on a Berkeley campus is not a reliable source of history.

  • trabecula

    Actually you are the one running on stereotypes, the self-centered one here. I'm European so once again, your presumption (not to say stupidity) misleads into thinking I am just an ignorant yankee. I know very well the history of the middle east, probably way better than you. I also know the one regarding NK. Still, I admit all I know is what I get from news, books, articles, etc, not knowing for sure what is or isn't true. Unlike yourself, a god-like creature that knows all the facts simply because you do. Ups, isn't this the definition of "deslusional thinking"? Oh yes, it is! It is because you hold on to it as if you were god. Sorry mate, you're wrong about pretty much you've posted here but hey, guess what? I respect the fact that people have a different opinion, even if it has clearly nothing to do with reality. Hence why I became a psychiatrist! Have a great year, go read a book, for real!

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Lots of romantic talk, but you haven't made one single fact based assertion. You are simply another pro-Fakestinian parrot.
    Other readers would do well to get their facts straight on the misrepresentations of Israel:

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    "they are also only 1 of 3 countries left on the planet without Zionist run central banks in their country who print money out of thin air" hooo boy...The Protocols of the Elders of Zion hoax once again used as a Theory of Everything.

  • Rashan Akbar

    Well hey a bunch of stuff I already know. I still rather live in America than live in North Korea lol.

  • Rashan Akbar

    Lol this documentary gives us a good look at what they think of us. They try to make us seem like the Taliban or something haha.

  • truthseekah

    Who stood to gain the most from the hoax? All roads lead to Rome, or should I say, the Vatican. That doesn't mean there isn't an agenda lead by a group that call themselves Jews. This is part of the illusion. They are two sides of the same coin.

  • truthseekah

    I agree with you for the most part. Propaganda is churned out by every government but there is usually truths mixed in with lies. When truths are revealed by our "enemies", it must be seen as propaganda in order to keep the veil intact. Most don't want to see or admit their own government is committing atrocities against others out of corporate greed or something more sinister. Instead, we distract ourselves with the minor narratives laid out for us which pits Demo-cripts against Re-blood-licans, et al, and their many frivolous skirmishes.

    We have to be careful in seeing any nation, including North Korea as part of the same act. As with nearly every regime, oligarchy or whatever, there is the illusion of adversaries, but the same puppet masters are pulling the strings. North Korea serves the purpose of the enemy, just like Isis and al kaeda. We must have a refreshed enemy to keep us in the state of fear so we will relinquish all our power. We are being propagandized on so many levels.

    This being said, I feel we are on the verge of taking our power back. Although the internet has many trappings of distraction, misinformation and disinformation, more and more people are seeing the veil. The powers of this planet know this and are doing everything in their power to keep this from happening. They are scared of us, and rightfully so.

    -edit
    I just got done with this documentary and have to say it was filled with quality information. I expected a good deal of propaganda, but don't recall any. Yes, the video was used to evoke an emotional response and we don't know for sure they are accurately representing those images, however, it was a great summary of the western world.

  • truthseekah

    What, specifically did you see as propaganda? Please share so I can debate you. Perhaps the Gulf of Tonkin Incident or maybe genocides of Australian Aboriginal or catholic conquistadors? The "war on terror", maybe? Please enlighten me. While I cannot attest to everything on this video, most of it is spot on and I would be happy to discuss the details if you will take a stand.

  • awful_truth

    Well stated truthseekah. Your perception seems quite similar to my own. Ironically, just by asking the right question tends to set people off, when all I am saying is for people to use 'intellectual skepticism' regarding any information they absorb, regardless of the source. The Bush mentality, (if you are not with us, you are against us - binary thinking) is well engrained, and will likely never be dislodged from the general populace for a variety of reasons. I guess it is just my idealist mentality. (I can dream, can't I?) Good post truthseekah, take care, and best wishes.

  • truthseekah

    I agree. The thing I liked most about the video was how it called out the propaganda catch phrases like "yes we can" or "support the troops" that mean absolutely nothing. Support the troops how exactly? Support their killing civilians or support them when they come back all messed up for following orders that go against their best judgement? Support them when the government abandons them after they have protected or advanced on financial targets?

    I used to be caught up in patriotism as that is what was conditioned in most of us growing up. I was proud pledging allegiance to a flipping flag, for god's sake. I sang my national anthem at every sporting event and happily drank my kool-aid as I marveled at the "shock and awe" campaign during first war in Iraq and other butchery. I didn't question our government for the most part but ironically could see how other governments did the same to their people. I was an automaton.

    I couldn't have taken more of a 180 degree turn, now. I question every narrative from governments and really any source of information. I rarely take anything on faith and use an inquiry based education for the most part. I actually discovered I have the ability to think critically. Who would have thunk?

    Thanks for the response,
    Cheers!

  • awful_truth

    Congratulations on your awakening! I am curious; what was the catalyst that changed your position? (a serious question) For myself, I had a father who drilled it into me to think for myself, (self independence) and a mother who embraced empathy for everyone, regardless of racial or cultural differences. Needless to say, this also caused a lot of grief for me making moral stands against accepted dogmatic views.
    This documentary (in my opinion) has not misrepresented western political, and economic beliefs. Oh course, it is only concentrating on the negative attributes, but this does not dismiss the accuracy of the facts themselves.
    Ultimately, it boils down to whether we accept the idea the global pyramid scheme is the only possible course for humanity, where the lives of a small number of people can live extravagantly at the expense of a large number of others.
    Since I have never accepted this position, (idealist) I find it cathartic to expose the hypocrisy, while trying not to contradict it in how I live my own life.
    I do believe that patriotism, (like everything else) is fine in moderation, as long as it doesn't allow one to support the subjugation of others.
    In the final analysis, I am not surprised that you, myself, or many others have reached these conclusions, as long as we actually think it through. For this reason, I do not expect the powers at be to be interested in educating the masses since it goes against everything that supports the existing paradigm. Thus, it is the responsibility of the individual to educate themselves, but humans tend to act like electricity, and take the path of least resistance. That is the conundrum that humanity faces, and whether or not we are worthy enough will determine the validity of our species potential. I have no doubt that nature will correct our deficiencies if we hope to survive our own stupidity.
    Keep up the 'good work' truthseekah, I enjoyed your response, and take care of yourself!

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    "Ultimately, it boils down to whether we accept the idea the global pyramid scheme is the only possible course for humanity" - Not really. You are speaking in absolutes, which is childish. There is not necessarily "best", but more like "better than the worst". The West may not be best, but we aren't imprisoning entire families for life because one member criticized the government. The Interview hit a nerve. Comedy, satire, but Kim didn't want anybody seeing it for some reason.

  • truthseekah

    The Interview didn't hit a nerve with North Korea, or at least they weren't the ones who hacked Sony. It was done from within for publicity and blamed on N. Korea for political means. But, you go ahead and follow your narratives like a good little soldier/prisoner. You are free to move about your cell.

  • truthseekah

    Regarding my "awakening", there was really no one thing I can put my finger on as it was a process that took years, or I should say a process that is still unfolding. Certainly, 9/11 had a big role and probably made the biggest shift in my paradigm. But there were chemtrails, sacred geometry, relearning history from multiple perspectives, studying religious and scientific dogma, understanding the Federal Reserve system and fractional lending, "magic squares", cosmology, megalithic sites, fluoridation, vaccination, global warming, anarchy, gnosticism, occult, black ops, hemp/marijuana, public schooling, elite connections, atheism, academia, communism, fascism, plasma cosmology, the nature of conformity, mind control/propaganda/advertising and gun confiscation. This is but a small sampling of subjects I have been actively learning since late 2008. It has been quite the roller coaster ride and I can't believe it has been 6 years.

    I'm still trying to find my role in bringing the oligarchy down as I believe this is the only solution. They will not go on their own accord, unfortunately. I try to get others to think critically, but most of the time that is a lost cause. I suspect I have lost some friends due to this process, but I would lose a lot more if my wife didn't pull in the reigns now and then.

    I have always had an innate distaste for authority. Some may have seen me as a brat (and rightly so in many cases), however, it has allowed me to break the chains of conformity many times.

    A part of me wishes I had not taken the red pill, but overall, I am happy I did. I do envy you with the balance you received from your parents. Critical thought was not practiced in my household growing up.

    Cheers.

  • awful_truth

    Actually, they already made a movie about it called Wag the Dog, as opposed to The interview. (regarding Sony hack) For the record, questioning the present paradigm is not speaking in absolutes. (only being philosophical regarding humanity's direction) To willingly 'drink the kool-aid' without questioning the validity of the corporation that poured it down your throat only exposes lack of critical thinking.
    Ultimately, I have empathy for all people, and I learned a long time ago that blaming the corporate spokesperson (president) is akin to shooting the messenger. The ills of this world will not be cured from accepting the status quo because it is 'better' than for those who have it much worse. This is an insult to the people who fought for something better, and to watch their efforts evaporate ( eg. patriot acts) without lifting a finger or questioning their intent, in my opinion is childish. (if not cowardly) This is not directed at you personally, only the mindset your position represents. Take care gg, and best wishes.
    P.S: Speaking of movies, check out 'Argo' for confirmation of Hollywood/political entanglement.

  • awful_truth

    Great response truthseekah. I too have gone done the rabbit hole of analyzing, and experiencing the vast arena the world has to offer. Your comments only confirm the power of education, which ultimately leads to 'the truth' (as opposed to 'a truth') The reward is to be set free, and what a beautiful feeling it is.
    For this reason, I am quite content that I took the blue pill, but as you have already discovered, it does come at a cost.
    P.S: You have nothing to envy when you arrive at the same destination. (enlightenment) I leave you with a quote from Bruce Lee/ Enter the Dragon. "It is like a finger pointing a way to the moon; concentrate on the finger, and you miss all the heavenly glory'. Best wishes truthseekah!
    (stay in touch, I appreciate what you have to offer)

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Didn't hit a nerve with North Korea??? Kim threatened war because of it.
    "It was done from within for publicity and blamed on N. Korea for political means." - And you believe this because you read it somewhere on the internet???

  • Jeffrey

    Propaganda earned a spot at one of my favorite conspiracy theory documentaries. Though some theories are far fetched and the "truth" - as always (in this category), in my opinion - a bit bloated, it gives a nice insight in the world and things you may not know yet.

    I suggest that people who specifically had an interest in the consumerism, should watch Consumed. The title is self-explanatory, this film also gives nice insights

  • rowley02

    everything you saw and heard in that documentary is the truth.Having been alive since before the start of the second world war i can vouchsafe for the facts as shown.The number of people that have been slaughtered on this earth ,in just my lifetime ,is incalculable.Human beings are totally insane.Our brains have evolved too far,the more clever we become the less able we are to utilise intelligence.We do things just because we can- regardless of the cost.We invent bigger and more lethal weapons of war,so we can murder and steal from more and more of the poor and defenceless.The only life-form on the planet that has -wants-not just our needs,but insatiable -wants.This film clearly shows the depths of our insanity,
    .

  • truthseekah

    I can ask you the same thing, except add FOX or CNN. Besides, the publicity stunt has been revealed and you can do your own investigation. Did you know that 7 companies control 85% of the world's media. Do you know anything about the Online Persona Management Service?

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Everything is relative. If you want to find corruption, racism, the powerful control the weak, etc., you're going to find it in every country. If that's the level you're stuck on, you're going to end up bummed out like Michael Snowden. He went from one country where he found corruption to another country where we already know there's corruption. If there was a true utopia, and maybe there is, it isn't in North Korea, Russia, China, or the US. But even knowing my country has corruption, it's hardly an incentive to move to a real hell hole where there's not only corruption, but no chance of even establishing the most basic needs. If all I can do is pay my rent, buy food, watch whatever the hell I want on tv, it still beats anything that's coming out of North Korea.

  • truthseekah

    Absolutely, relativity is a factor. However, the passive and dismissive nature that we have all been indoctrinated to act out has been the reason corruption is allowed to prosper. Seeing corruption in most governments is not the real point, although that should give everyone pause as to the nature of government itself. Saying, "at least it's better here then there" allows for deceit and "evil" to persist because it is relative and this paradigm will continue to shift toward more totalitarian ways. Relatively speaking, everything is the same, but the reality is tyranny is winning. One can choose not to see this trend to save their own paradigm from destruction, but to me, that is negligent and immoral.

    The idea of running away from one country to another is also a passive route that serves the status quo. It's time we all, regardless of where we call home, start taking a stand against corruption. The very least we can do is resist these tides. Without doing so, an unabated monster that calls itself government will only enslave.

  • awful_truth

    I think you were making reference to Edward Snowden. (not Michael) It should be noted that he didn't really choose to move to Russia of his own free will. (survival, yes) He has been attempting to return to the U.S, but will not make the move unless he is guaranteed a fair trial.
    Although the supreme court already addressed this/his issue back in the 1970's with Daniel Ellsberg, (the 7000 classified pentagon papers he released under the conscientious objector status revealing illegal American government activity) the patriot acts now won't even allow Snowden the opportunity for his day in court, treating him as a terrorist under the espionage act. One only need look at Julian Assange, and Bradley Manning to understand Snowden's desire to flee persecution. (for exposing corruption, putting himself a great risk, for everyone's benefit) If the public cannot support this effort, then we all deserve the consequences for our apathy, and cowardly behaviour.
    The bottom line is if people want a fair shake, they have to protect certain rights that were already established at great cost to those who previously martyred themselves for everyone's behalf.
    We may not like another country's approach to governance, but if the alternative is to wipe out their leaders, and leave a power vacuum in it's wake for fanatics like ISIS to gain a foothold, (middle east) it would seem to me people should remember that 'charity begins at home'.
    I respect your position GG, however we must all remember that North Korea evolved into what it is today with a lot of outside interference. (just like the middle east)As much as I believe in human solidarity, I am wise enough to understand that nothing is what it appear to be.
    The awful truth is there is are no real countries anymore, just rich people funded by all of us, to create havoc around the world for their own benefit. I leave you with a quote from Albert Einstein.
    "Man, like any other animal, seldom considers his own situation unless goaded by circumstance. Communism, socialism, fascism, nationalism, militarism, while constituting diverse political ideologies, ultimately all lead to the subjugation of the individual by the state, putting an end to freedom, and personal liberty". Take care GG, and best wishes.

  • gallowaygrumblefield

    Edward, not Michael...Ha! I already forgot half his name. The rest of what you're telling us is already well documented. Every liberal minded college kid regurgitates these facts ad nauseam, kind of the way this film does. So, let's say North Korea really is responsible for this production as an anti-west propaganda piece. That makes it all the funnier and more hypocritical knowing what their system offers as an alternative.

  • awful_truth

    Actually, I read some where that it wasn't produced by North Korea. (unsure if this is true or not) You are definitely correct that pointing out flaws in western culture does in no way sell North Korea as an alternative ideology. The only thing that should be taken from it, is what I tried to convey with my quote from Einstein that all ideologies, left unchecked by the masses, will ultimately lead to the same scenario. (not a comforting thought, don't you think?)

  • gus

    This film shows how the world really works, all they say is proved truth, that said I expected from such a serious film a honest point of wiew of their own politics and not nore of the same propaganda they criticise.