We Need to Talk About Islam
The documentary film We Need to Talk About Islam could just as easily be called an opinion or editorial piece. It presents a thesis statement of sorts very early on, and audiences aren't left wondering what aspect of Islam needs to be talked about according to the film's narrator and presumably its' creators. Various news footage, online videos showcasing Muslims admitting that they believe in the Quran, and footage displaying environments under Shariah rule are combined to show viewers why the supposed narrative of Islam and terrorism not being mutually exclusive is all wrong.
The film works to do one thing, and that is to persuade the audience that Muslims are bad, the narrator even gives a list of reasons why he believes all Muslims are bad, but is careful to explain that by bad he does not mean terrorist.
The film is curious in the way that it opposes the religion of Muslims. Much like the "All Muslims Are Bad..." bit of the film works to distance bad from terrorist, the narrator spends quite a bit of time (with the help of news footage from here and there) making sure that the audience doesn't mistake the religion of Islam with any one race; seemingly in an attempt to not appear racist before negatively critiquing the western news media over going out of their way to not attach Islam with the word terror in order to not appear racist. We Need to Talk About Islam also makes a point of attempting to separate the faults of Islam from the faults of other religions, ironically through listing issues with the religion that ring true of Christianity as well, including attitudes towards homosexuality.
There are times in the film when good intentions and practical thinking points seem to be more at play than a desire to attach terrorism with Islam, but those moments can easily feel difficult to reconcile with the rest of the film. We Need to Talk About Islam states that non-extremist Muslims are irrelevant when compared to the Muslims who are extremist; a claim that raises eyebrows not because it may be offensive to Muslims, but because it is a logical fallacy in the form of a slippery slope and a way of thinking that is perhaps just as dangerous as the narrator and other notable atheist who are shown speaking throughout the film insist that any religious faith is. What is left to talk about after we decide that we believe in the points being made by the film's narrator? You decide.
The person reviewing this documentary has clearly never read the Quran or tenants of islam in the form of sharia,jihad,sure,sunnah,suna or other related islamic scriptures....if he had he would have to admit what many muslims believe is written in the Quran...muslims believe everything written within the Quran,literally....for one do's this reviewer realise that islam promotes and supports muslims lying to non muslims?...I'm sure they dont...dos this reviewer realise that islam openly supports rape,pedophilia and slavery?...I'm sure they dont....do's this reviewer realise that islam informs/demands that muslims kill Christian's,jews,non believers of islam,atheists,gays,adulterers ?...I'm sure they dont....yet having not read anything on islam(which I firmly believe they havent considering what theyve written about this documentary)...and more than likely getting their information on islam from biased mainstream media or muslims(who we know are encouraged by the Quran to lie to non muslims)..this reviewer believes they have enough knowledge to refute the legitimate claims made within this documentary...because having studied islam for over 30 years ,read all the relevant islamic scripture and spoken to over 200 ex muslims and those still muslims...I can confirm that every observation made in this documentary is factual and any issues that are made within this documentary of what muslims are like in general,in my view,is spot on...I'd love to ask the reviewer if he would be worried about or stay friends with someone who remained a member of a group or organisation that openly supported rape,pedophilia and slavery??...because like most muslim apologists I've ever had the misfortune to come across,..I've yet to have one of them who has answered this one question that I've always asked them....because they cant be honest without admitting that people have legitimate fears of anyone associated with supporting issues like those by remaining a member of an organisation or group that supported such vile issues...oh,and the reference that was made concerning christianity and its views on homosexuality(christianity has had a reformation..)....they will never in a million years be as backward as they once were,...in the last 30 years,...in iran,which is an islamic republic,like pakistan and saudi Arabia...over 6,000 gay men have been hanged....understand that reviewer??? HANGED....for being gay...fortunately more people are educating themselves first before blindly believing what a lying,corrupt,indocrinating mainstream media tells them...or a muslim who would clearly be biased in their opinion on islam...but not this reviewer....WHAT AN IDIOT
All religions are bull**** but Islam takes the cake. As an ex Muslim I can tell you it is ISLAM that is racist, violent, sexist and not politically correct at all.its sad that the MSM lies to our faces by saying it's a religion of peace.
Mohammad the sick perverted rapist killed many and enslaved thousands. And to say that this guy is hateful is ridiculous. You should hear what muslims say about the western nations.
Hahhahahahaahaha Kick the hatred and love people despite of there religion. Its good for your health
I'm not even muslim and found this to be racist and total garbage. I agree Islam needs to be talked about, but in a manner of peace not hate.
Following the wisdom in your own heart and finding your own truth, requires much more faith and courage than any believe would require. "True" wisdom and truth are not things that can be instantly acquired by reading a holy book. Somehow though all major religions, christianity and islam, advice on just believing "the book", do not look any further. They might loose control over you...... now... why on earth would your religious leaders be scared of that?
Good video. All religions are bad and for the feeble-minded. As for Islam, it is a religion of conquest and domination. That being the case, terror is logically believed to be a valid tactic by some of its followers and general support of the concept is embraced by a larger group of its followers.
You will very, very seldom go wrong being on the same side of an argument as Hitch, Same Harris and Richard Dawkins.
if you have read down this far, the is no hope for you.
you will burn in heck, what ever ur belief.
I don't think the writer of the description could show much more contempt against the film without outright calling it a piece of racist garbage.
Missed the point on every issue. I love how the writer thinks saying someone is bad is bad. Because we can criticize people up until they say they believe in something real hard, then criticizing them in any way is just bigoted and hateful.
Islam is a non wanted religion but also a free insulting religion so please watch it or u will face a defensive people who are good MUSLIMS!
marx commented ... "Religion is the Opiate of the Masses" ... Billions of Humans have been killed by religions & the killing continues today. So much for the "HUMAN" species.
Karl Marx commented ... "Religion is the opiate of the masses" ... never more accurate. Billions have been massacred due to religious beliefs and the persecution continues today.
Why do we need to talk about Islam?? Isn't it obvious to everyone that Islam is a gangster religion? Mafia gangsters are not all violent. But the threat of violence is always there and they insist on getting their way - whether getting paid in protection money or not insulting their Mafia boss. Islam works in exactly the same way. Once people realize that Islam IS a gangster religion, most behavior of muslims will start to make sense.
How can you prove it?
All divine faiths written books should not draw a divine figure or prophet of God because it is demeaning religion
If you try to draw a picture of Jesus as you draw the Prophet Mohammed then maybe you'll understand it was not for any religion
This is done in the name of God not because of Islam, not because of religion
It is disrespectful to belittle the faith of Hansiim
I thought it was pretty spot on! Jesus (peace be upon him) even got a mention. Loved the point about taking offense. The men in the mosque in England all saying aye aye to stoning the adulterers and all the other nonsense in sharia was spot on. Wonder what Sharia says about an honest days work. Watch out for that one lads. Mohammad was illiterate, I actually remembering reading somewhere else and an embryologist. Astounding! Pretty good too. Real killer point was earthly rewards in paradise for a life of drudgery. Janey mac what a good video, really enjoyed and will be talking about Islam. Thank you.
Grow up people, first get authentic information of Islam then talk on it. In one aspect of anything, it is not wise to describe in their own way.
There is obviously something very wrong with Islam that has to be addressed.
Whether you die on land, sea, or in the air, on the Day of Judgement you body will be put back together to its very finger tips. See Qur'an chapter 75 entitled "The Rising of the Dead", verse 1-40.
So? Are you trying to convey that it's OK to kill people for religious reasons because a book written centuries ago says they will be put back together at some unknown point in the future?
Ok, I've had many interesting discussions here in the comment section, but it's time for me to move on. If anyone wants to read what I have written, feel free to scroll down, but I don't plan to return to this page.
Thank you to everyone who asked questions and made comments; I enjoyed responding and hope I've answered your questions.
I hope and pray that any of you with an interest in Islam spend some time in prayer, letting go of everything and just asking God to guide you to do His will.
Good night, and have a fantastic week! :)
(EDIT to add: Excellent sources on Youtube, etc --> Yusuf Estes, former Christian preacher; Hamza Yusuf Hanson, former Greek Orthodox, child of civil rights/environmental activists; Nouman Ali Khan, raised Muslim, turned to atheism, then went back to Islam and became fluent in Arabic / Quranic Arabic. )
Take care and don't waste too much time praying for me. I'll let Allah know what I think if I ever meet him.
So you have been shown the errors of your thinking and arguments, so you put your tail between your legs and f*cked off.
He had to go look for people that haven't been exposed to his kind of apologetics and can see the fallacy in his assertions, that he may have a chance of sucking in as he has been. It's a compulsion with them, their beliefs demand it. Notice his last appeal to stop thinking and just pray?
At least he didn't try to say a banana was made specially for us. lol.
Is this yet another film out of the Ministry of Zionist Propaganda (euphemistically called Hasbara)?
Maybe the Christians embracing this film should consult Christians like Michele Bachmann or Mike Huckabee or Rick Santorum to find out what real Christianity is about.
Well it seems it works doesn't it. Look, they're bad over there, so that's ok for us now. All that means is they're both a bunch of hypocrites.
Nope, if you had viewed the documentary, the author openly reveals his atheistic views.
Consulting political figures to get information about a religion is probably the dumbest thing a person could do. At least in the documentary, we see and hear muslim preachers so their views can be considered as religious views.
If you were to read most of the comments, most here are non believers/atheist.
A very good piece. If you want to talk about Islam you can do so quite well from this starting point:
Q: Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
A: Then He is not omnipotent.
Q: Is He able but not willing?
A: Then He is malevolent.
Q: Is God both able and willing?
A: Then whence cometh evil?
Q: Is He neither able nor willing?
A: Then why call Him God?
- Epicurus 341-271 BCE (taken from "A History of Disbelief (2004)" here on TDF).
...interesting then that ALL western religions later lay claim to know a "personal God", his teachings and his will, through various books and prophets, oblivious to the trap Epicurus showed us: talking in absolutes is a tricky business, and often leads to unwanted or unexpected consequences.
So to me Islam (and the others) manifest as the unforeseen yet inevitable outcome we see today, which arose from the appealing invention of a personal, caring supreme entity, to unite us and, further, control a population. Something which we now see as outdated, out of control and virtually impossible to deal with peacefully.
Check out this short on Youtube "Science saved my soul" (user Philhellenes). Quite remarkable and good perspective for this very topic.
Voysey The Voice
....When it says, "We Need to Talk about Islam."
Does it really mean, "We Need to Deal with Islam"? I find this
disturbing. I'm not siding with Islam, I'm actually part agnostic, and when I
say, “part” I mean I believe the universe its self to be God, an invisible
force. The universe is a live entity, and since we’re all alive in it, my
conclusion is we were created by it.
"part agnostic" what the ? how can you be part agnostic.you either believe in the magic man or you don't that like me saying I'm part lesbian because I only have sex with women.
So are you telling us that after you return from being abducted by aliens you have come up with this rubbish that we were created?
Rather than reading Sci-fi you should try and read some books on evolution and other actual scientific books so you might be able to comprehend how all things have evolved.
He should start with a dictionary so he knows what words mean. If you recall, he likes making up his own definitions, i.e UFO means ET flying machine only.
....Wrong, APC: "Alien Piloted Craft" get your facts right once again! TGOBP definitely in need of psychiatric help and fast too!
Wrong APC is an Armoured Personnel Carrier, so it would seem that you are the one that should get their facts right once again
The majority of mankind will disbelieve. Look at Prophet Noah, he preached to his people for 950 years. But only a few believed in him as the messenger of Allah. They ridiculed him and taunted him and called him a mad man. After all that time only about 80 people entered the Ark with him. Even his own son refused to believe.Than the great flood occurred and covered the whole earth. Only those who boarded the Ark were saved. Mankind started again for his people.Allah sent other Prophets and Messengers throughout time to guide the people to the straight path.Some believed, many disbelieved.Just like today, some believe, many disbelieve.Allah is the Most Merciful. He gave man a free will.He tells us in the Qur'an, 'those will be successful who purifies his soul, and those will be failures who stunted it (chapter 91,verses 9 and 10).
No world-wide flood has occurred in the time frame you claim. There is no logical reason to believe any of that nonsense about Noah and the flood. There is however very good evidence that never happened.
You say Allah is the most merciful yet you just claimed he drowned everybody and all animals but a few believers and animals. I fail to see the mercy in the act of drowning that many living beings whether they believe in a god or not, or, like babies and animals, don't have the intelligence to be held accountable for their lack of belief. You say Allah gave man free will but when they exert it by not believing in him, he kills them all.
I really question your morale judgement when you consider the killing of thousands babies and animals as an act of a merciful being.
Average life expectancy was about 30, 4000 years ago, so Noah didn't live 950 years. Unless you were a Iron Age, uneducated folk who believed such nonsense.
and all this wasn't just a lie written by someone in a book that you read thousands of years later and believed?
In the news at this moment! Al-Shabaab group, a video, that urge Muslims to attack shopping malls in western countries including the West Edmonton Mall, in the name of their Allah. google it.
I don't quite understand why West Edmonton Mall is considered a den of evil for these guys, are Muslims forbidden to shop in Malls?
Don't know, but malls are on alert! beefing up security, In States and Canada and the world.
I heard part of the speech on Mail Online. He says they are Jewish owned. I don't quite understand how killing innocent shoppers, who's religion can't be determined, will hurt the Jewish owners though.
Lost revenue. Make no mistake, religion is really more interested in Profits, than Prophets.
I am confident that's not going to work, just like it didn't work against Charlie Hebdo.
Any Muslim who follows the request of some evil group to commit criminal acts is either truly ignorant of the teachings of Islam, or they are evil themselves.
I would guess they aren't even Muslim, as a real Muslim would fear the wrath of God for killing ANY innocent human being!
What is the prescribed penalty for apostasy? End of your argument right there.
they find lots of ways to see people as not "innocent". in almost all walks of life young males are rebellious against the authority. but not in islam. islam tells young men all they have to do is believe in the koran and then they will cum A LOT in paradise after they die. islam is a gynocentric vagina worshipping sex cult and is the exact opposite of MGTOW.
That's inaccurate info. Someone who kills another - except in self-defense when under immediate physical attack - should worry about punishment from God.
Any Muslim who thinks otherwise is delusional.
muslims find lots of ways to lie to themselves that they werent the ones who started the fight. see gaza
Dude, you need to read more about Islam instead just talking nonsense about Islam.You epitomize what Allah says in the Quran about how 'they try to extinguish the light of Allah with their months, but Allah will perfect His light'. Islam is the way of life that all Prophets taught their people.Mohammad was send as the final Prophet and Messenger to all of mankind.Many people that are not believers are now realizing the falsehood in their previous way of life and are submitting themselves to Allah in the correct manner.Islam is the proper system.If you haven't tried it than you are missing out on a great treasure.
Why do you reject religions based on earlier prophets as not being proper systems? Musa (Moses) and Isa (Jesus) are important Muslim messengers. Why is only the "final prophet" right? Why did Allah stop sending prophets after Mohammad? Doesn't look to me the work is fully completed with so many Non-Muslims on the planet. If Allah was to send another man that declares himself a prophet, would you accept him or reject him since you label Mohammad as the final one?
Do you realize that Allah send about 125,000 Prophets and Messengers throughout time and even the Great Prophets you've just mentioned told us that the final Prophet and messenger to come would be Ahmed(Mohammad). Realize that the Bible was not revealed in English. Also Musa and Isa were sent to the Children of Israel, and not to all of humanity.
Please provide a proven written reference from the bible that the Great Prophets I mentioned said Ahmed would be the final prophet.
the only thing islam did to be special was to claim " this is muhammad, the LAST prophet".
I have lived in an Islamic country. It was a rotten, ugly, unjust 'system' for more than half of the population. Your definition of 'great treasure' is obviously different to the accepted meanings of the words.
There are no countries right now that follow Islam.
There are some countries that follow *some* parts of Islam, but add their own twisted cultural traditions - much of which are in complete violation of Islam.
And no, Saudi Arabia does not follow Islamic law. They follow some things, but other things are culture.
I've lived in a country with majority of Muslims, and visited others as well, and the conditions in all were deplorable. Everywhere I looked I saw major violations of Islam, people going against Islam at every turn. And I'm not talking about their personal practices - what they wore, whether they prayed or whatever - those are personal choices. I'm talking about how they treated the poor, how they treated people of certain ethnicities etc. VERY unIslamic.
But human nature is what it is. Islam came to protect the poor, the weak, the orphans, the widows, the less fortunate, as well as to promote equality amongst different tribes & races so no one would think they are superior due to their wealth, their family, their skin color etc.
Unfortunately, the practice of true Islam - humility, kindness, compassion, respect, tolerance - is not very high, even in areas with large populations of Muslims.
yet you seem to forget that most of the violent acts you will find written in Islam's book of lie. (Quran)
The Quran tells many stories of what went on during that time period. It includes battles, and deaths on both sides. The Quran also includes limitations in war, such as not killing clergy, women, or children; not burning crops/trees etc, and requiring Muslims to STOP fighting if the other side stops.
it amazes me how GOD wanted humans to know his message so he had a book written by people who decades earlier knew a guy you said things that an angel said to him. and 1400 years later we have what we have with islam.. sounds like god is an idiot tbh. since that he made humans why didnt he just make it impossible for them to do the things he now forbids?
"Islam came to protect the poor, the weak, the orphans, the widows, the less forunate, as well as to promote equality..."
Then please explain the whole concept of 'infidel'. And what your Qu'ran says about how to treat them. And then the position on apostasy. Death penalty for leaving the 'faith'.
Your whole post is an yet one more example of the No True Scotsman fallacy. As is the norm from your apologetics.
I've explained in several comments above, so forgive me if I make this shorter.
Apostates during the time of the Prophet were people who PRETENDED to be Muslims in order to infiltrate the Muslim community. You know --> spies. They passed along information that caused great harm, torturing and death to Muslims. Once they "left" Islam, the Muslims realized they were traitors who never accepted Islam, that they had committed treason. The punishment for traitors in modern times is still death in many countries, including US.
In modern times, if someone is raised as a Muslim but decides to convert to another religion, it's a personal decision. They are not (hopefully) pretending, in order to spy against Muslims and cause Muslims to be injured or killed. So there is no need to punish anyone. It's traitors, spies, who get the punishment. Or if someone is Christian, converts to Islam, then goes back to Christianity - who cares? it's their personal choice.
(if you feel like scrolling, you can see my example above re China)
So you're claiming first that Islam has changed, it used to be ok to kill but now isn't.
How does that fit with an 'unchanging, all-knowing deity' claim. It doesn't.
It also doesn't fit with reality in the modern day. Sunni's killing Shiites and visa versa, google any recent car bombing for an example.
Then you try to excuse it by saying most countries have a death penalty for treason. Which doesn't fit with your first assertion. A inerrant God isn't dependent on what is an accepted norm in China for example. Either 'he' condones it or not.
(although that is evidence that it is not coming from some deity, but rather man)
Your position is not tenable, it is not consistent.
you don't know who wrote the koran therefore you have every reason to believe what they wrote in it was all lies. get on your knees and talk to your hands for the next 60 years and then you might get your "treasure". oh and don't masturbate.
The Qur'an was revealed from Allah to Muhammad via the Angel Jibreel the same Angel who transmitted the other Holy books to the other Messengers. Oh, and next time please try to respond with some intelligence.
Could you provide any evidence that Angels are real and not like any of the "gods" that you religees have tried to pass off as real.
That's right you can't because of the same reasons that there is no "god" as it is at best just a fairytale.
And you know this how exactly?
harry potter is a boy wizard who went to hogwarts where he learned magic spells and played quidditch. and ron is his friend you know
"Go down on your knees". As in prostrate to the lord, like Jesus did.
You don't know what Jesus did, only what is claimed by non-eyewitnesses decades or more after the fact.
I know what the modern Bible says, and it just may be true.
I believe the Quran is the truth, and it says in the Quran that Jesus worshipped God. So there is no reason for me to believe otherwise.
You can choose to believe however you want.
It may be true? You need to learn more about the modern Bible then. We know for a fact that there is additions, changes and errors. Some research into Textual Criticism of the NT especially would teach you that 'it may be true' is inaccurate. Parts of it, yeah, for sure. The thing as a whole, no.
sunday night, instead of watching the Oscars i decided to watch this..... excellent documentary. i would like to have an open discussions about islam, but i guess that might be a blasphemy for the believers.
What do you need to know ?
Great documentary! Thank you.
Great if you are ignorant about true Islam.
No True Scotsman fallacy...look it up. That's what you just did.
Not quite. Islam is whatever its followers (majority of them) want it to be.
And suggesting 'those Muslim's are not following the TRUE Islam' is an example of that fallacy.
So which version of Islam is correct, Sunni or Shiite? According to you it all comes down to the numbers. Another fallacy, this one is an appeal to popularity. Numbers have nothing to do with fact v's fiction.
But there is no fact and no fiction! In general, "islam" stands for a set of beliefs and practices. And the specifics depend on popular beliefs and "culture".
You think flying a winged horse to the Moon and cleaving it in half with a sword is neither fact or fiction? Hmm. You think the earth being described as flat is also neither? The specifics of a 'believer's' beliefs actually depend on a persons particular interpretation of what you say is neither fact or fiction. As with other belief systems, there is a massive range in personal interpretation, and an appeal to popularity has no bearing on whether any particular version is accurate. Take Halal as one example. There is often a massive difference in how one Muslim defines what is Halal compared to another. Based on how they interpret the scriptures. But ALL of them are still considered Halal by a non-muslim.
Perhaps I was not clear. Halal is a good example of what I was talking about. There is no true objective definition of "halal" that is independent of people's beliefs.
And therefore, ALL personal takes on Halal come under the heading of 'Islam'. All versions of it are. Unlike what you claim, the majority determine it. Now you're arguing the opposite. Thank you for pointing out why it was an example of the No True Scotsman fallacy above.
If I understand you correctly, you say that either 'halal' has to have an objective universal definition, or that the term is meaningless.
No. I'm saying that as it is all different forms of Islam, it comes under the 'label' Islam. Your attempt at making your No True Scotsman fallacy work, doesn't.
There is only one Quran (it's only the Quran if it's the original Arabic - everything else is a "translation" or "interpretation"). It's the same Quran, word for word, syllable for syllable, as was revealed 1400 years ago.
The shia separation started AFTER the Prophet was gone. It began with a dispute over who should lead the Muslims after the death of the Prophet. The majority believed the companions should elect the one they felt was most qualified, so they did so and he became the next leader.
A small group felt the next leader should be blood relative of the Prophet, his cousin, purely because of the blood ties. (and in turn future leaders would be blood relatives)
Sunnis believe there is no "privileged" position just because of one's family, that people should not be considered spiritually superior just bc of blood ties.
The small group split off and would not accept the leadership of the elected leader, so they appointed their own imams to lead them. Differences in religious opinions grew from that as the shia rejected the teachings/rulings of those companions who supported the sunni leaders. That rejection changed some of the religious practices that are based in part on what those companions said & did.
But Shia and Sunni they have the same exact Quran.
Thank you, your post proved my point. It is whatever people make it to be, and therefore is obviously not the words of an omnipresent deity.
The difficulty I have with Islam (compared to my religion - Christianity) is its ambiguous standing on religious killing. The global consensus in Christianity these days is that advocating religious killings makes you a bad Christian, if not an outright heretic. In Islam, this distinction has not yet crystallized.
Then you don't obey your scriptures to the letter, you've cherry picked to make up your own theology out of it. You think your God and Allah are the one and same? Remember your first commandment. In regards to Islam v Christianity... if you're going to be fair, you have to compare Christianity from 700 years ago. That's the very least the 'head-start' it has on Islam (if you don't count the OT, which isn't 'fair'), the extra time it's had to 'crystalize' into the mixed up mess Christianity currently is. It wasn't all that long ago you were at each other's throats, burning at the stake. You've nothing to boast about your version of BS over Islam.
Nobody can obey Bible to the letter, it is too long, too complex, and too self-contradictory.
And no, I will not compare present day Islam to 13th century Christianity. The very idea is naive, ignorant, and insulting to both Muslims and Christians.
Insulting to you because you don't like facts. At the same point in the religious evolution of the BS you say you adhere to, you guys were killing each other and other non-believers. It wasn't because the Church decided to stop killing people... you were forced to pull your heads in. Just as some Muslims that now want to inflict the same as yours did are needing to be pulled up. If you know the Bible is actually full of BS, how can you say you believe it?
You want a more current Christian example? Go look at which religion the KKK are affiliated with. Then look when the last murder was committed. Look in the mirror before you point the finger at Islam, you're no better.
I am not talking about extreme cases, which will always occur, but about the general attitude. KKK is a good example. It was a violent ideology that tried to co-opt Christian religion. Yet in this it was mostly unsuccessful, being denounced by most (all?) large Christian churches.
You still want to plead your No True Scotsman fallacy. As plentsje said, it grew out of the justification given in your Bible. What was it you said earlier, Islam (Christianity in this case) is what the followers determine it to be? So now you're arguing against your earlier position?
What scripture actually teaches, and how human nature corrupts those teachings, are two separate things.
Human beings will rationalize evil behavior however they can, including using scripture. Human beings rationalize greed, lustful behavior, arrogance and countless ways of harming others - however they can, including using scripture.
That does not make scripture wrong.
No, the inerrant claim coupled with the incorrect claims within scriptures make them wrong. The balance of good things v's what is considered bad things done, as well as the blatant dishonest claims within, make religion an overall negative now to our species. They were useful at a time, that time has past.
Islam had the same message as Judaism and Christianity. Islam - peace through willing submission to God - started with Prophet Adam.
The most important aspect of the message is that the is ONE God, one Creator of the universe and mankind, and all living things.
That is the essence of the message of all the Abrahamic religions.
So yes, same God, same message.
The Torah was sent through Moses. The Bible was sent through Jesus, who said "I came to confirm the Torah".
Eg all Jews, Christians and Muslims are not supposed to eat pork, and can only eat meat of vegetarian animals (cows, sheep, chickens etc) slaughtered in the name of God as God proscribes. Jesus was a Jew who confirmed the teachings of the Torah, so the people who followed Jesus followed the same dietary laws. Muslims too.
Jesus "fell to his knees" in prostration to God, just as Muslims do now.
Lol, so easy to disprove many of your claims. Please explain how Moses was able to write about his own death and funeral?
'The Bible', is the Old and New Testament. Jesus authored none of it.
You don't know what he said, you're going on a book that we now can prove has multiple false claims. Hardly the 'inerrant' word of an omnipresent deity. Unless they're deliberate lies of course.
Most decent people will admit that the Bible and Qu'ran both contain some very horrific ideas and commands. You are free to 'willingly submit' to that sort of horrific, blatantly incorrect scripture all you like. I don't, and won't, worship such horrific nonsense.
Christianity is very clear on religious killing. As long as it's done by their God, it's perfectly fine.
In Islam, the only time someone is allowed to hurt another person is to defend themselves, or another, in the face of immediate physical danger. And if that danger abates ie there is a truce or the other person is no longer a threat, Muslims must stop any attack. Very similar to American laws, actually.
For a person who kills someone it's "as if they killed all of humanity". God will punish those criminals accordingly.
So everything that is written in the Koran that entices violent acts are misunderstood?
Yet again, what is the penalty for apostasy?
Then explain how not believing is somehow an immediate threat?
Or more relevant to you, what does your scriptures say about willfully misrepresenting things?
maybe you don't know about the true true islam that we are talking about
Seems like a solid production. I've gone through some of the numbers he mentions, and it seems correct. I am glad somebody bothered to make this. Cause yes we need to have this dialog - and as Sam Harris was quoted saying in the beginning. People need to understand that it is a criticism of the ideology, not the people.
Who created the seven heavens and the earth? Can you give an answer?
The laws of physics to some extent. But there isn't a who that created the heavens nor the earth. Try reading a science book mate. The natural process by which our planet came about is quit fascinating.
Seriously - questions like that is what gives religious people a bad rep.
Wouldn't it be great if people wouldn't get offended at inconsequential behavior? What difference does it make if you believe in god(s) or don't believe at all? The problem with it all is that some zealots are certain they are right and want others to think like them.
No way. That's not true. They have no control over how you think. They only want to save you from a fire whose fuel is men, jinn, and stones.It's known as Jahannam.(Hell) My advice to you is to read the Quran, and if you have any questions, ask an upright Muslim that you may known.And don't ask people that are not Muslim. I have a question for you. Do you know what happens to you when the last person get 40 steps away from your grave after you are buried?
How is it not true? You just said they want to save others from hell, there is no way one would get saved if they don't believe in hell hence, they need to think like them and submit to Allah even though they might have lived a perfectly moral life without Muslim faith.
How do I identify an upright Muslim?
I have no idea what the absence of a human being within 40 steps do to a corpse, enlighten me.
Before I answer you please ask a muslim whom you might know what happens after death so you won't be shocked by my answer.
I am pretty hard to shock.
You overestimate your abilities.
It was great until he went on the Atheist rant...no problems have come from Jews trying to take over the world, and there is NO evidence that circumcision for males is anything but positive. The herpes that the baby contracted could have also come from one of the other caregivers present during the operation. Christians and Jews in the Western world and truly REFORMED Muslims who accept atheists and atheism but still want to keep their culture and traditions are not the issue. The problem is with the nucleus of worldwide Islam (20% of that population amounts to over 200 million people) extolling Jihad, FGM, death for Apostates, rape, enslavement ISIS Al Quada type stuff.
male genital mutilation aka circumcision is not a positive thing. its an abhorrent thing. it removes over 80% of sexual pleasure and the bit that remains is then further dulled by the head of the penis becoming callous and desensitised like how an eyeball would become damaged if it didnt have an eyelid. if people sliced off a baby males eyelids at birth you would be saying its a good thing too. MGM endangers a childs life when its done. it is mutilation and torture. you should be ashamed of yourself for proclaiming it a good thing and if it was done to you then you shouldnt defend it just because you don't know any better. that would be like a child who had his left eye gouged out when he was a baby saying "well my right eye works fine so i see no problem with people having their left eye poked out because i don't feel like I'm missing out on something". atheism is what happens when people actually THINK and accept reality. look up the definition of the word "rant" so you no longer embarrass yourself by misusing it.
FGM vs MGM, What happened to equality?
Prophet Ibrahim (Abraham) circumcised himself when he was in his 80's. There is tremendous benefit in circumcision.However, most of you do not know.Islam is a way of life based on knowledge. Question. Do you know the three reasons why Allah created the stars? Give me an answer if you know.
No, no one 'knows' that Allah even exists, let alone created anything.
And maybe you can explain why the Qu'ran says the earth is flat, like a carpet, pinned down by the mountains like pegs, and the sky is drawn over us like a tent. Hmm, apart from being factually incorrect, it is interesting to note that is exactly what one would expect ignorant, tent dwelling nomads of the time to believe. Is exactly opposite to how an all-knowing creator would say it is. Unless of course He is lying. Your book cannot be what you claim it is. Therefore in reality it is BS.
I have to copy and paste here to give my brain a rest. :D
A book entitled Earth is a basic reference textbook in many universities around the world. One of its two authors is Professor Emeritus Frank Press. He was the Science Advisor to former US President Jimmy Carter, and for 12 years was the President of the National Academy of Sciences, Washington, DC. His book says that mountains have underlying roots.1 These roots are deeply embedded in the ground, thus, mountains have a shape like a peg (see figures 7, 8, and 9).
(you can do a google search to get the references and see the diagrams in the textbook)
Best scientist to learn about the Quran and science is Harun Yahya, a prominent Turkish scientist. He has a plethora of material at his website.
I am aware of exactly what you are talking about, I have debated that before. What is in those books is misrepresented by Islamic apologists. The fact that mountains have 'roots' that go deep, does not confirm that the Qu'ran is correct. 1 assertion, partly correct IF you try to interpret it a certain way, does not make the accompanying other 2 assertions correct. The mountains are not 'pegs' that hold the ground at all, plate tectonics has shown that to be incorrect. The earth is not flat, we know that. The sky is not pulled up over us like a tent, we know that. So trying to argue that it is inerrant because it 'kind've' got 1 right and 2 wrong is bogus.
Can you tell me the name of the chapter you're talking about and the verse number? That's why non- Muslims cannot be an interpreter of the Qur'an,besides the fact that you don't know Arabic. Just like Christophor Columbus who thought the earth was flat .Just like you may think it's flat when you're walking down the street .If you go to the desert on a clear, moon-less night and gaze at the sky, the mansion of stars will seem like a canopy engulfing you. And the mountains are embedded deeply into the earth more the what is above the ground level. This shows the truth of the Qur'an because scientists have only recently discovered this fact. If the mountains were not constructed like this, than the earth would wobble and quake more often.And people would have trouble standing on its 'flat surface'.
And NO, there is nothing beneficial about FGM. Unless of course you are a sexist, controlling a$$hole.
Female genital mutilation is something predominant in African culture - Christians too - and predates Islam.
In Islam, females are allowed and ENCOURAGED to have sexual pleasure with their husbands.
FGM is completely against Islamic teachings, not just bc of that, but because the way it's being done in some regions causes great pain, can lead to serious illness, and completely blocks natural procreation - which is hugely important in Islam.
Ever spoken to a woman that has had it done, and is about to have her daughter done? I have. You know what her reasons were for having her daughter done, even though she didn't want to? Fear. Fear of the reprisal from the Islamic law she lived under. If it is an African culture, and nothing to do with Islam, then explain why Indonesia has taken up the practice? Explain why even in Western countries it happens, and is exclusively practiced by the Muslim communities there?
There is no country in the world right now that follows Islamic law, no matter what they call it.
They may incorporate some aspects of Islam, but often add some of their old cultural practices. It's very hard to get rid of the old traditions, esp when those in power can benefit from keeping some unIslamic traditions in place.
There is a short scholarly article about female circumcision and Islam, at Minaret (dot) org. Just google: "Islam and female circumcision"
(I learned something new there: that a Muslim woman has the right to divorce her husband if he doesn't give her sexual satisfaction)
A right is only useful if it can be applied. I find it very distasteful that you are trying to excuse FGM, and quite ludicrous that you think a woman can have normal sexual satisfaction after FGM. You should try talking to some that have had it done, see how they really feel about it.
Ok, so getting to my last reply to you on this thread.
There is no excuse for FGM. It is an abhorrent and dangerous practice, damaging to women not only physically but mentally and emotionally as well.
The article I told you about explains, briefly, the historical context of FGM and Islam.
Some old traditions had a "minor" skin cutting, and Islamic tenets tolerated the "minor" cutting for those cultures that were practicing it, so long as there was "no harm". Remember, in some cultures FGM and other practices (like placing coils around the neck to length the neck, placing holes In lower lips to insert things like ceramic type disks or pieces of wood etc) are "desired" by people in that community. Some women would insist on having FGM, feeling, due to their culture, they are less of a woman/wife without it. (I don't get that, but it is the belief of some! )
As to harm: Pain = harm. Closing up any opening = harm. Forcing a woman = harm. Plus all of this could harm or kill a woman during childbirth, or harm or kill a baby during birth. All devastating, all potentially harmful/painful, and therefore it is a forbidden act.
That's why modern Muslim scholars are trying to teach Muslims that it is not permissible, that it is harmful, esp the more horrific forms of FGM we are hearing of in recent news. (Muslims aren't even allowed to get tattoos or body piercings with a few exceptions like ears and nose)
As to an earlier comment re apostasy - I addressed that in one of my replies to you, plus to other commenters.
Alas, you are free to believe as you will.
"To you your religion [or lack thereof], to me mine"
I hope & pray you are healthy and happy, on this earth and in the hereafter.
Finally you got honest. "Alas, you are free to believe as you will"
I am already aware that having everyone believe what you do is one of the main aims of your religion, it is a commonality between religions. Hence your 'alas'.
I am aware there is more than one version of FGM, and I agree any form is flat out wrong.
I disagree with your assertions about Islam trying to stamp it out. If it were, there would be an open announcement to all Muslims, that it is wrong. A fatwa would be declared that it is against the Qu'ran.
But that is not what we've seen, or continue to see now is it?
What part of culture in the UK for example, makes Muslims commit FGM there?
No, much more was said about a cartoon than has ever been said against FGM. That there shows you where it sits with Islam as a whole.
Your actions, or lack of, speak much louder than words.
P.S Pray for me if you wish, it is your choice. IF by some miracle I die and find I'm face to face with 'Allah', first thing I'll do is punch the prick in the face for the suffering he lets occur. I want nothing to do with any deity as cruel and vindictive as is your god.
Billions of men and animals don't get circumcised and seem to live a perfectly normal life. What are those TREMENDOUS benefits you are talking about?
Well over 300 comments, looks like the film is doing what it set out to do. Good job.
Good point. :)
The Abrahamic religions god(s) really needs to publish more frequent updates to his 'words of god' books, a lot has changed in the past centuries. It no longer is very popular to watch decapitations, stonings and mutilations in most of the world.
It would also help quite a bit if the next 'words of god' book was very clear that violence against other human beings is not a way to be admitted to heaven. It's very odd to me that a benevolent omnipotent god didn't make his message clear enough so that people don't use weapons in his name.
Ooops, nevermind the above, I just remembered the words in these books came from men with an agenda and there is no benevolent omnipotent god as he wouldn't let his message be twisted in such a way. I can't quite understand how believers think a benevolent god would watch ISIS or any other religious terrorist group and do nothing.
> I can't quite understand how believers think a benevolent god would watch ISIS or any other religious terrorist group and do nothing.
Um, are we talking about the same god that drowned nearly all of humanity (even infants) in a great flood?
The god who allowed his own son to be crucified?
The god who commanded the killing of witches? And a sentence of being stoned to death working on Sunday?
The god who created hell, and decided that some people would burn forever in a lake of fire for reasons that are not exactly clear?
The god of the bible is far from benevolent?
We are talking about a fictional being and to date no evidence has been produced to counter that fact.
Man created all religions and it should be attacked for the crap that it is.
Well, my point was not to prove or disprove Abrahamic gods are benevolent. I only question how believers (who generally think god is benevolent, otherwise I don't understand why they pray to it) think what's going on with religious conflicts between those 3 related monotheist faiths makes sense.
TO my friend Fabien ''' We know because we hear can hear his voice ! Listen ?
Many crazy violent fundamentalists also claim god is "talking" to them. Hearing the voice of God doesn't qualify him as a benevolent being. I think God could do much more obvious actions to prove he exists than "talking" to a few chosen people who not so coincidentally happened to believe in him beforehand.
You misunderstand me friend. All Christians believe because they hear his voice. Whether we realize it or not God's spirit reassures us by giving us something that cannot be explained here; yet we are like children to you because we believe in something so foolish. How someone cannot see or hear our creator astounds me in the same way.
The term "hear his voice" is implied and means more than you are able or want to understand.
That's one of the problems with religions, words in religious books don't mean what they mean in dictionaries. You need to interpret what is written and said, otherwise it makes no sense.
It's great for religious "experts" that can decrypt these obscure messages and appear as having a direct contact with god.
I don't understand why a god that equally loves all of humanity would need a book with messages that can't easily be understood without expert interpretation though.
Actually, I don't understand why he needs a book at all because, if the powers he allegedly possess are real, he can communicate his message directly to any brain without having to go through any 3rd person either.
Your not the only one ; I have questions too.
It seems things could have been much simpler also. The book has a purpose but it is not why I believe in God and you are right in that God doesn't need a book; in fact I wish Christians would realize we are more important than a book. Instead we let it divide us which is not what God intended.
This is where simple faith comes in and it is all I have left. I believe in the Christ
Why only Christians, don't you think Jews, Muslims and Christians believe in the same God?
That's a good question. You would have to understand the story of Ishmael and Isaac to answer your question. The #1 and #2 religions today came from these two boys . It's interesting how the Muslims are trying to eradicate the Jews and not the other way around.
The common root is Abraham which all 3 religions say existed and was contacted by God. Unless he was contacted by different gods, it has to be the same god since all 3 religions are monotheistic. All 3 religions also depict the Archangels Michael and Gabriel who would be creations of the same god.
The divisions between the 3 religions are man made and if any believer of these faiths wants to remain true to the "words of god" books, he has to admit fellow believers of Abrahamic religions believe in the exact same god.
"It's interesting how the Muslims are trying to eradicate the Jews and not the other way around." That statement is highly questionable, you might want to write some Muslims are trying to eradicate Jews.
The father of the two sons was Abraham , but you should know the God that Abraham prayed to blessed Isaac to be the line from which the Jews , David and Jesus would come from not Ishmael. The Muslims are praying to the same god the Hindus pray to.
You might want to write some Muslims are trying to eradicate Jews ( I believe I did)
What difference does it make who he blessed if all 3 religions acknowledge he talked to Abraham and label him as a great patriarch of their faith, it would be the same entity.
Are you saying your god wouldn't listen to prayers from people who acknowledge him because they aren't descendents of Isaac?
These are questions I would humbly ask God yourself . Yes it does seem God chose things to be done a certain way. I have an idea as to why but I think you should discover this yourself.
you don't know who wrote the bible. you don't know how many times its been edited and mistranslated. your belief that the bible is a factual document is so naive when you know perfectly well how "wrong" all other holy books are. you are only addicted to the biochemical drugs you experience in your own body when you talk to yourself thinking you are talking to god. you wasted your one and only life lying to yourself.
Sorry, I can't give my faith to a god that has prejudices against some of the humans he created based solely on ancestry.
Lol, you know, but you won't tell us. Good one. My turn. What sways from side to side? Jesus on a rubber cross. One more.... Top 10 reasons why Beer is better than Jesus;
1. No one will kill you for not drinking beer.
2. Beer doesn't tell you how to have sex.
3. They don't force beer on minors that can't think for themselves.
4. Beer has never caused a major war.
5. When you have a beer, you don't knock on people's doors trying to give it away.
6. No one has been burned at the stake, hanged or tortured over a beer.
7. You don't have to wait over 2000 years for a 2nd beer.
8. There are laws saying beer labels cannot lie to you.
9. You can prove you have a beer.
10. If you are devoted to beer, there are groups that can help you to stop.
Again you display you believe things without checking or understanding. You said, "the Muslims", not SOME Muslims. Huge difference. I can see it's a bit hard for you, but word definitions do actually matter hey.
Christ supposedly coming from the line of the 'miracle' child that Abraham was prepared to murder, as opposed to the b@stard half-brother's line, does not mean they believe in different gods at all. Same BS, different flavor is all.
you sure you know what you mean when you say the word "god"? sounds like its a word you think means something but it actually doesnt when you think about it.
If you mean any attempt to name God misses the mark . Then yes I agree. But we've come along way from grunting and pointing at the sky; wouldn't you say?
what do you mean when you say the word "god"? what are you picturing in your head when you saw that word? i suspect you don't know what you mean when you say it. is god made of atoms in your mind? is god a man who speaks english? is god outside of the universe? does god have a creator? does god have genitals?
Hmm, what happened to I Am then? Missed the mark did He? lol.
Nice of you to claim you KNOW what your god intended, then show the oxymoron your statements are when you say you believe. Knowledge and belief... get a dictionary and learn something.
Yeah mate I "hear" his voice right now, he's telling me that "this bloke With Fortune is brain dead if he thinks I'm real".
If your hearing voices in your head mate it's time to seek professional help.
After all this time who'd a thought Grumpy was an Aussie .
Probably a similar amount of people that understand you're a fool. Obviously all that noise in your head makes critical thinking difficult for you. What does your voices have to do with talking about Islam? Next time your voice tells you to drink the kool-aid, ask for a 2nd glass mate.
Listen, Grownups realize hiding behind a computer while insulting someone shows low character and severe cowardice. We just don't do it. Going back and forth with insults ruins my mood and I have to work with other real Adults to pay my bills . So, are you a little kid or can you play nice?
'Grownups', or more correctly mature people, also usually realise believing in the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, 'prophets' on flying winged horses cutting the moon in half, talking snakes, satyrs and other such nonsense is all mythical nonsense.
Now you play the victim card because you don't like the truth, typical apologetics. Look up the definitions for 'fool', and 'kool-aid drinker'. They fit what you've displayed on here quite adequately.
I'm happy to meet and discus this with you face to face if that is what you wish, I'm in Brisbane Australia. And no, I'm not a little kid. Come meet me, we'll find out if we can 'play nice'.
You don't want to go back and forth with insults, yet this is the post you choose to reply to. Not the ones pointing out your claims and assertions are incorrect. Not the one asking if you actually understand the counter-argument to your absurd fallacies. No, you chose to go with 'poor me, I'm a victim'. I also note your attempted ducking of any questions.
But no, when you say to people 'you can't have morals', or 'what you say you believe is NOT actually what you believe', or 'you are going to burn for all eternity in hell because you won't just accept my nonsensical assertions as fact', that's not insults. No, it's ok for you and your group to insult all you like, but can't take the same attitude reciprocated.
Not only are you a fool, you're a hypocritical sook too. When you insult, it's 'preaching', doing 'the Lord's work'. When others treat you the same, it's now hate speech or bullying or insults. Can you not see the paradox there? Or was my other observation about your poor critical thinking skills also accurate?
I see now your still not able to understand how foolish you look insulting me behind a keyboard. ID has nothing to do with religion but you should know that. Your the one invoking religion in this conversation Besides I don't believe in Hell. I just don't feel like being pissed off all day because of a conversation I'm having with a little twit. No your probably an adolescent still pulling one off for himself . Grow up kid
Your dishonesty is on display for all to see. ID is not religion in disguise hey? Who then do you propose is your 'designer' ? Using adjectives that accurately describe someone is not automatically an insult. There is some that know me on here. They will confirm if you ask that your 'belief' on my age is as warranted and factual as your other BS beliefs. You believe some 'sky-daddy' made you... and you're telling me to grow up. Lmao.
Maaate, after reading your comments it seems you have very little understanding on many things. It would appear that you have failed in your argument when you had to start insulting the messager.
By the way I know TGOBP and I know 40 is the new 30 but that still makes him an adult, and may I say that he has shown more evidence to back his argument than you by a country mile.
You have contradicted yourself as well used the scottsman fallacy and other means to endorse your personal belief.
The only thing that matters is what we can prove and to date all the evidence confirms that all religion is man made and should be taken as nothing less than a group of fairytales.
When were you voted spokesman for "All Christians" ? I've spoken to quite a few that don't hear magical voices, implied or otherwise.
its a 7th century ideology with 21st century weapon technology .....
its purpose is to dominate others no matter weather other faith is in favour of them or against them ..........
it is Not evolved like other religions with time ........as much it resist to change its become more dangerous and vulnerable to there modern people as well as for others ....it must be questioned ......
There is no point is talking about racism. This is not about any race. The crazy Muslim Imam drilling his congregation is a perfect example. The audience is composed of various races. And they are equally fanatic and irrational. No, this is a discussion about anti intellectualism, hatred of the other and religious exceptionalism. All of which is in this film. Are you being silly here? Xians, Muslims and other magical thinkers cannot work with others within those magical realms. So how will they work with each other? They can't and won't. So, here is what you do. Obey the Constitution of the US and leave others alone!
Good documentary. As a Christian, I respect his right to his athiestic worldview and do not take offense over his mockery of Christianity as my faith does not rest on what others think. I do however appreciate his exposing the violent nature of Islam which is not based on a few radicals but comes from its core ideology. As for the racism thing, no one would be calling anyone who challenges Christianity racist. Why is this word being thrown around in such an illogical manner? By that logic (not mine), the Muslims who are to hate Jews, Christians and any other infidels are the racists.
he says whilst completly ignoring the fact that judging an entire culture based on the actions of a few stereotypes is the textbook definition of racism.
People call christians who bash islam racist because more often than not they use racist arguments like the one you just made in order to prove a point that applies equally to their own religion as well.
More jews have died to christian blades over history than islamic ones...or christian gas as the case might be.
> he says whilst completly ignoring the fact that judging an entire culture based on the actions of a few stereotypes is the textbook definition of racism.
No. Muslims are no more a race than Catholics are a race.
Yes it is fair to judge an ideology according to what that ideology believes in. For example, if you are a member of NAMBLA, you are stating that you are okay with child molestation. If you are Muslim, then you are stating that you are okay with killing infidels to promote Islam - Mohammad certainly did that.
yeah hence why i used the word culture to describe them instead of race.
Did it ever occur to you that maybe not all of them believe in the hardcore orthadox version of their religion? what your saying about Muslims is like saying all Christians are westboro baptists...it's an absurdity that displays a shocking lack of empathy or understanding of human nature.
Also it's worth noting that Christianity believes exactly the same thing.
I am posting about the ideology, not the religion.
> Also it's worth noting that Christianity believes exactly the same thing.
Really? I don't seem to remember Jesus advocating rape, torture, and death to non-believers. I don't seem to remember Christianity's perfect example being a war monger, and looter.
How often do we see Christians killing a cartoonist because they are offended? Oh cutting off the heads of non-believers?
There have been over 25,000 terrorist attacks by Muslims since 9/11. No other religion comes anywhere close.
yeah...you aren't seeing that stuff because you either haven't looked for it or you don't want to see it. The bible is literally filled with the righteous slaughter of the non believers, and don't forget about people like the Lords resistance army, the IRA, The Oslo gunman.
If you don't remember christianitys perfect examples being warmongers i refer you to the crusades.
Granted we don't see christians killing cartoonists, but if you go to the right parts of Africa you'll see them killing homosexuals instead...and burning children alive for witchcraft, all in the name of Jesus.
yes 25000 terrorist attacks have been by muslims since 9/11...are you aware that 90% of the victims of those attacks have themselves been Muslim?
> you aren't seeing that stuff because you either haven't looked for it or you don't want to see it.
I have an open mind. Please give me the bible verse where Jesus commands his followers to kill infidels. Or where Jesus personally kills, rapes, and tortures. I promise you: if you provide that, and I will change my mind.
> The bible is literally filled with the righteous slaughter of the non believers
> and don't forget about people like the Lords resistance army, the IRA, The Oslo gunman.
Glad you brought that up.
More civilians were killed by Muslim hijackers in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.
More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined.
As for the Oslo gunman, he was absolutely not fighting for the cause of Christianity. Most of the people he killed where not Muslims.
But most importantly, consider the reaction by Christians. Did they party it up? Did they dance in the street and hand out candy, like the Palestinians on 9/11? Did the Christian cleargy praise him? Was he considered a great martyr and hero? No, Christians were horrified, and persecuted Breivik like the criminal that he was.
Certainly, there are occasional non-Muslim crazies, but they are not acting out of Christian, or atheist, ideology.
> If you don't remember christianitys perfect examples being warmongers i refer you to the crusades.
Jesus was the perfect example, he was not a crusader. Furthermore, the crusades were a response to Muslim aggression. Nice try.
> Granted we don't see christians killing cartoonists, but if you go to the right parts of Africa you'll see them killing homosexuals instead...and burning children alive for witchcraft, all in the name of Jesus.
Extraordinarily unusual, and not endorsed by more widespread Christianity.
> yes 25000 terrorist attacks have been by muslims since 9/11...are you aware that 90% of the victims of those attacks have themselves been Muslim?
But it's always Islam isn't it? We don't see Jews fighting Buddhists, or anything like that. But we constantly see Muslims fighting: Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, atheists, and of course, other Muslims. Muslims do not get along with anybody, even other Muslims. That is because hatred, revenge, and violence, are cornerstones of the ideology.
I'll try and address your comment on a point by point basis:
1/"Please give me the bible verse where Jesus commands his followers to kill infidels."
This was quite refreshing in that it was an interesting question. It was actually quite difficult to answer but i believe i can do it, whilst also addressing what i believe to be a misconception you have about the old testaments place in christian lore.
Matthew 5:18: For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Jesus is clearly saying that every letter of the law (old testament) is fully valid for christians. Jesus can't condone it without also condoning the rape and slaughter performed against the caananites. You also cannot relinquish responsibility for that text because your own lord and messiah says in no uncertain terms that he believes in it in it's entirety! Don't forget that Christianity is a schism religion of Judaism. the original christians in the Eastern Roman Empire had to convert to Judaism before they were allowed to convert to Christianity!
2/More civilians were killed by Muslim hijackers in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland.
not at all true. in the conflict known commonly as "the troubles" 3600 people are known to have been killed, with many more injured and others missing.
on September the 11th 2996 people died.
I guess my question here is, why are they both not equally as horrible? Why does the death toll even figure into it? Is there a scoring system or something that i'm not aware of?
3/"More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined."
Since many of the trials held by the Spanish inquisition were held in secret it boggles my mind how you think you are able to make that claim with a straight face...We have no way of knowing how many people were killed by the spanish inquisition...but more imporantly i feel the need to ask again why body counts seem to matter, as if one side having a slightly smaller of tortured bodies under it's carpet some how makes it better than another in exactly the same situation.
4/. "Jesus was the perfect example, he was not a crusader. Furthermore, the crusades were a response to Muslim aggression. Nice try."
This is a classic misunderstanding. those Muslim "Agressions" can just as easily be seen as the local populace throwing off the yoke of the Roman empire...What difference does it make if they were worshipping the old god Zoroaster, or the new God Allah? It's a wonderfully one sided opinion that fails to even attempt to make space for another perspective.
"But it's always Islam isn't it? We don't see Jews fighting Buddhists, or anything like that."
No...mostly because Buddhism is an asian religion not an arabic one...To be honest you might want to actually research Indian history before making a claim like that.
5/"Muslims do not get along with anybody, even other Muslims. That is because hatred, revenge, and violence, are cornerstones of the ideology"
we have a name for people who judge an entire culture of people based on one ridiculously extreme stereotype...can you guess what that word is? it begins with an R.
> Jesus is clearly saying that every letter of the law (old testament) is fully valid for christians.
Clearly not. For example, Jesus said it is okay to eat pork, whereas the old testament said it is not okay. Clearly, Jesus did change some of the old laws.
> You also cannot relinquish responsibility for that text because your own lord and messiah says in no uncertain terms that he believes in it in it's entirety!
Not "my" lord. I am an atheist.
> not at all true. in the conflict known commonly as "the troubles" 3600 people are known to have been killed, with many more injured and others missing.
> on September the 11th 2996 people died.
> I guess my question here is, why are they both not equally as horrible? Why does the death toll even figure into it? Is there a scoring system or something that i'm not aware of?
It matters because you are trying to create a false equivalence. You are trying to say that Christians are as bad as Muslims. But, in fact, they are not. Not by one helluva long shot.
> Since many of the trials held by the Spanish inquisition were held in secret it boggles my mind how you think you are able to make that claim with a straight face
> This is a classic misunderstanding. those Muslim "Agressions" can just as easily be seen as the local populace throwing off the yoke of the Roman empire
Bulit. Christianity existed for six centuries before Islam was invented. How do you think those Muslim lands became Muslim lands?
The Crusades were Christians defending themselves against Muslims.
More importantly, the Crusades, and inquisition were centuries ago. Christians do not do that crap anymore. Islam, by contrast, acts exactly the same way it did in the 7th century. If anything, Islam has gone backwards.
> No...mostly because Buddhism is an asian religion not an arabic one
What does that have to do with anything? Muslims are fighting Buddhists in Thailand.
> To be honest you might want to actually research Indian history before making a claim like that.
What? That Muslims have been fighting Hindus, and the Muslims have been fighting Buddhists. Look it up.
> we have a name for people who judge an entire culture of people based on one ridiculously extreme stereotype...can you guess what that word is? it begins with an R.
I have a word for bulls*it artists, I call them "bulls*it artists."
Was Mohammad a "ridiculously extreme stereotype?" Because Mohammad behaved exactly like ISIS. Mohammad also demanded the same from his followers.
BTW: Islam is no more a race, than Catholicism is a race. Islam is an ideology. Ideologies can be criticized.
Nice try playing the race card.
Steviecomment and Plentsje. Here is my reply:
very religion has some crazy doctrines because religion is a powerful tool to control minds. Therefore there will always be some people who will want to abuse it. Buddhism also has got its crazy rules although it's said to be a peaceful religion. It's the case for religion, for politics and for everything else. There are extreme groups in everything and everywhere. The problem comes from people, not from religion.
This documentary is a cliche. Showing loony imams, ignorant Muslims and some crazy extracts of the Coran doesn't mean that Islam is to be banned or that all Muslims are potential barbarians (barbarians are terrorists to me). Our French hymn incite to bloodshed. Does it mean we all go around and kill people? Of course not. We aren't stupid. There are actually smart and educated Muslims who do adore their religion and can differentiate the good from the bad. These people can actually make the difference between figure of speech and reality, between some archaic rules and Islam in our modern times. Why isn't this documentary showing moderate and Muslim intellectuals talking about Islam? Why isn't it showing Muslims and Jews protecting the Oslo Synagogue together? Why isn't it showing Muslim demonstrations against terrorist groups? Why isn't showing the cooperation between Muslim and secular states (Tunisia, Morocco and France for that matter) to fight terrorist groups killing in the name of Islam? Why isn't it showing Muslim (or not) stand-up comedians in France mocking Islam? Why isn't it showing the rise of violence against Muslims following the 7/01/15 attacks? This documentary is a pure attempt of manipulation. If it's trying to sound "journalistic", then it's sound rather unprofessional and irresponsible. It is a patchwork a bit of "this" and lots of "that" resulting in the stigmatization of Islam and Islamophobia. Discrimination or violence against a group of people based on their race or ideology is racism. Don't fool yourself.
all i can gather from your comments is this: "the most important factor in understanding the rise of hitler and the nazis is to focus on the millions of germans who didnt want that".. hmmm.. what did they do to stop it? not enough apparently. you go ahead and keep obsessing on the "good" muslims who don't carry out the actions the religion actually calls for and then when a charlie hebdo incident happens again run around naming all the muslims who didnt do it.. as to your final point: why is it unjust to judge people based on their beliefs/ideology and HOW is that racism? and why isn't the documentary showing the muslim world protesting islamic violence? because there is no footage show. you have no answer except to loudly declare and honest conversation on the subject of islam to be racism that needs to stop. most of the criticism of islam in the film comes from the mouth of muslims, intentionally and unintentionally.
> The problem comes from people, not from religion.
Since religion comes from people, that has to be true.
> This documentary is a cliche. Showing loony imams, ignorant Muslims
Was the prophet Mohammad a cliche? Was he loony or ignorant? Because Mohammad, personally, killed, raped, and looted, for the cause of Islam. Mohammad absolutely demanded that his followers do the same.
"Buddhism also has got its crazy rules although it's said to be a peaceful religion." Which one?
I have published replies to Steviecomment and Plentsje. I have tried again 2 times. Why aren't they showing?
They are showing now. Please read the community guidelines at bottom of page, thanks.
Great documentary which shows that militant islam is doomed to failure, not only by adhering to religious beliefs like the subjigation of women, 50% of their talent, but unable to adapt to western thought which will eventually predominate with their youth becoming involved in social media. The immans will become irrelevant.
Can all commentators please check the word "racist". It's being flung about here like a buzz word. I could become Muslim tomorrow, my race is fixed.
Let's call a spade a spade. It's not because this documentary shows a certain view of what "racism" should be that it means everyone else is wrong and should think this way. Discrimination, violence against a group of people based on their race or ideology is racism. Yes, the definition has evolved with the time and it's not new.
> Discrimination, violence against a group of people based on their race or ideology is racism.
No it is not. The key word in "racism" is "race." By definition you cannot be racist against some group based on anything except that group's race.
Ideology has nothing to do with race, and therefore has nothing to do with racism.
It's not because this documentary shows a certain set definition of what racism should be, that it means that everyone else is wrong. Discrimination or violence against a group of people based on their race or ideology is racism. The definition has evolved with time and it's not news. Nothing is fixed.
right, so the definition of racism has changed so much that if you criticise the beliefs someone holds because they are written in a book that makes you a racist.. just wondering, is it also sexist when criticise what someone thinks based on a book or does that word still have its archaic association with gender?
My belief is that you and some other commentators on here are not all that bright. Please respect my beliefs, or i will get very angry and possibly violent.
> Discrimination or violence against a group of people based on their race or ideology is racism.
No. If I criticize the ideology of NAMBLA, that is not "racist."
I agree, I think faithism would have been more appropriate although it is not yet an accepted word.
This is a very sensible film and a well thought out essay. There is nothing offensive in it. All it does is raise questions that need to be talked about, hopefully in a logical way.
This documentary basically says that all Muslims are terrorists or potential terrorists, we need to eliminate Islam. Islam will die one day. Wow. That is one of the most racist, one-sided, selective and intolerant documentary I've even watched. "Muslims" will hate the "Non-Muslim" population on Mars?? This is because of hatred speech like this that violence occurs. Good luck in life.
you say this is one of the most "racist" documentaries you have watched. you didnt state which race you mean tho. secondly you say it is "one sided". how can it be one sided when it shows footage of muslims saying their beliefs and desires and explains the origins of islam? what exactly is the film "intolerant" of? when the day comes that humans can live on Mars or other planets muslims will have to remain on earth as they are forbidden to travel to Mars in a fatwa that was issued. if muslims wish is to spread islam to all the habitable land area of the planet EARTH then one has to imagine how they will feel about infidels who are living on Mars whose woman are wearing skirts etc. this point also applies to the floating cities in the sea that we will have in a few decades. cant imagine islam needs to be spread to the sea but who knows. the koran seems to be able to apply to anything in an almost magical moving the goal post type of way. if you have any point to debate in the film please do but simply dismissing it as hate speech is lunacy when the only violence called for in the film is spoken by muslims. think first, then type.
Bigoted & prejudicial would be more accurate than "racist."
As to the idea that it's ok because they talked to some muslims, that is wholly insufficient.
If we want to learn about Christianity, we would learn from reputable, credible theologians, people with degrese in divinity, a Bible scholar or the like, or at least someone that many knowledgable Christians would agree have a good understand of Christianity.
We wouldn't take random Christians (eg some neo-Nazis, or maybe some uneducated folks, or even a random priest or minister) and take whatever they say as the truth of their religion.
the only source you need to learn about islam is the koran.same goes for the bible. and its not prejudging is islam, its judging islam. in what way is it bigoted? you know the wests way of life is BETTER than the muslims worlds way of life. thats "bigotry" but its also a fact. "As to the idea that it's ok because they talked to some muslims, that is wholly insufficient.". so how many muslims did you want to be in the film? point being, its impossible to be one sided when it showed supposed "radical" muslims saying what they believe.
Hilda, he had a few unfavorable things to say about Christianity and other faiths as well. Your last sentence justifying violence based on hurt feelings just proved the claims of the violent nature of Islamic Ideology portrayed in this documentary to be correct. Thank you and good luck in your life!
All religions hold contradictions within themselves and all religions have extremists groups. The atrocities, attacks occurring at the moment are not triggered by Islam. It doesn't make sense. It's not the ideology's fault but the people's fault. It is a human problem and not a religious problems. The problem comes from humans. It comes from governments wanting to create a climate of terror to attack a nation. It comes from governments which have created mainstream societies where discrimination and racism have become trivial issues. It comes from governments attacking other nations to take control over their resources. It comes from medias linked to corporations which want to trigger hatred among us, divide us to justify their terrorism. As a result of this, groups of terrorists have emerged, picking and choosing what they want in the Coran, thus justifying their atrocities to also take control. This is a game. It's a battle over power and the problem comes from humans. I am an atheist and still I think your documentary contributes only to stigmatize further a group of people which are Muslims. Stigmatization triggers hatred and hatred triggers violence. Your documentary has only proved that it's a human problem. Good people do good things, bad people do bad things. It's just as simple as that.
> The atrocities, attacks occurring at the moment are not triggered by Islam.
Yes they are. ISIS behaves exactly the same way Mohammad behaved, and the same way Mohammad demanded his followers behave.
Those blinds fools who know nothing about Islam exepet from the mouth of Hypocrites who always speak on behalf of Muslims can you not see for once who starts the problem, can you not see for once what your nations are doing around the world, can you not see for once that war is not on your front border you fool, it is only on the Muslims's front borders, R U so blinds to this level that you can not even see who is terrorizing who and who is killing who, You people are live in a different planet man. If you have not learned that Islam is the most civilized religion and that a criminal should be tried as a criminal regardless of his faith, than you have learned nothing.
the koran was written by humans who say they knew a guy called muhammed who was able to speak to god. you think those humans were telling the truth but they could easily be lying and you wouldnt know the difference. you have complete faith in them and they are only humans. that trust in them makes no sense and as you think about it you will realise how humans have had thousands of religions and gods and many holy books all of which you find it easy to understand why they were lies and fictions.. this is the only life you will ever live and when you die you go back to the way you were before you were born. it takes real courage to face that truth but billions of people don't have that courage.. they are so afraid that they just like to lie to themselves every minute of every day and believe in magical things.
This is sick and disgusting i find,
If the one who made this documentary has any logic or any rational, he would not dismiss a great religion of almost 2 billion people as a religion that promotes violence or teach terrorism, that fact that most of the people of the West are ignorant about Islam and are only educated though dishonest media and hypocrite leaders, bad examples of a few Muslims doe not make it the fault of Islam been misrepresented>
if you want to learn about the beliefs of islam the only thing you need to do is read the koran. what is written there is written there. its that simple. islam is very easy to understand. its not some great mystery. muslims who claim to be "good muslims" don't do anything different than good people do in general. what about the film was so "sick and disgusting"? was it dishonest? if it was this is the form for a debate on those points. to open the debate i will ask you "what are the great religions and what makes them great?
Jack, you read the Coran? It's very impressive.
My guess is that you either read none of it or you simply read it the way a terrorist would.
i definitely read the bit about how the sun disappears into a puddle of water at night time.. i was very impressed.
This was a good film. All religions are "bad" for you. This one is one of the newest, certainly of the middle eastern Abrahamic ones. And, like all newbies, it is the craziest and most zealous. It is dangerous just like Christian fundamentalism or Jewish Zionists or Scientologists or Mormons or any other magical thinking.
That is why this is a terrible documentary. It promotes religious intolerance. You don't have to agree with the preaching of Islam, or Christianity, or Hinduism (India), or Buddhism (Asians), or Judaism (Jews), or Taoism (Chinese), or Shintoism (Japanese), etc. But why do some people feel the need to ridicule, insult, and persecute others who do? If you can't tolerate another religion, then you have the SAME VIEWS AS THE ISIS SUPPORTERS!
A great civilized society is only possible if they value diversity. Your liver cells look different from your white blood cells but yet they both have a common DNA and they need to work together for you to stay healthy. Can you imagine your white blood cells attacking your liver cells simply because they look different and have different functions?
In the same way, Muslims need to work together with Christians and Atheists to create a healthy society that is diverse. Their culture and belief systems would be different from yours, but that is no need to keep ridiculing them and their culture until anger flares up and things get out of hand. After all, they are also human beings like us and have the same needs.
It is not a problem with free speech, it is a problem with how some people feel the need to misuse their freedom to further spread more anger, more hatred, and war in this world! Because some kind of religion exists in every part of the world and an insult/war against all religions is to declare war with the entire rest of the world.
in what way is religious intolerance promoted in the film? so by your logic if you ridicule someones beliefs then you are the same as ISIS.. WOW.. you seem adamant that someone shouldn't ridicule the things another person thinks is true. hmmmm.. what is ridicule in your mind? for instance you stated the documentary is "terrible". thats your opinion and its also ridicule. someone could accuse you of being "intolerant of films the tone of which you don't like or misunderstand or disagree with".what about the "diversity of culture" you call for. by your logic you shouldn't do what you have just done by "ridiculing" the film. i disagree with you on that. do you think people who believe in a flat earth are being "insulted, ridiculed and persecuted" because everyone thinks they are wrong? even if you are a religious person you still think all other religions are WRONG. why don't you state as much. its the belief you hold.
Yes you shouldn't ridicule/insult a respected person of that someone, if you want to live in peace and harmony with him. Imagine say your mother is someone whom you respect, and I decided to draw a caricature of her to insult her consistently. How would you feel? What this documentary and Charlie Hebdo did, is wrong.
The Muslims in your community did not attack you first, so why did you need to stir up trouble in the first place?
we don't all agree on what is "insulting" and "ridicule".i personally would struggle to care if someone drew pictures of my mother. even if they said "this is your mother" maybe they are lying to me. i don't let other people control my emotions like muslim do. either way i don't care what people who draw things think of me and they don't affect my emotions. my feelings aren't easily hurt. maybe someone draws someone and they are not good at drawing. is that an "insult" if you happen to not like the picture? there is no rule in the koran that says that people cant draw muhammed and shia muslims have often depicted him. the reasons muslims are not allowed draw living things is because they might worship them. to a muslim drawing a bird, muhammed or a whale are all the same thing. well that is not said in the koran. that is in the hadith and you know the hadith was written by humans. you don't know your own religion. but since you and muslims believe that they should never have their feelings hurt then why don't we all ask the muslims of the world to present a big long list of all the things that upsets them and "offends" them and we can obey that list. and then we will present a big long list of things that offend us and annoy us and we will give that to muslims and they can obey that.. is that the world you want? and just to point out the flaws in your own thinking and how you have ideas in your head that were given to you by someone else that you have never questioned here s a question.. what does the word respect mean? you use it so what does it mean? do you know? try explaining it then without googling its definition. also you say you have a problem with "ridicule".. what is ridicule? is it something that makes people laugh? lets say i draw you exactly as you look and everyone laughs, is that "ridicule"? if the people in the west decide that drawing mushrooms is a way to say they think islam is stupid are you then gonna decide we cant draw mushrooms because we have decided mushrooms mean "islam is stupid"? all you want as a muslims is to feel important but guess what, people who aren't muslims don't believe that muhammed was a prophet. he was either a man who made up a story or the people who actually wrote the koran made up muhammed. the admiration you expect non muslims to have for muhammed they cant have because they don't believe in him. thats what it means to be a non muslims. you find that "offensive" but thats how they think. people are allowed to have their own thoughts you know and in the west people are allowed to express those thoughts. muslims who move to and live in the west are hilarious. they act like the west is so bad compared to the perfect middle east yet they don't want to live in the middle east. they want to live in the west. will i tell you whats really wrong with muslims in the west? get ready to read the cold hard facts.. are you ready? non whites don't fit in in white countries. they feel completely inferior to whites in every way and thats why they feel so uptight because deep down inside they actually worship white people. at least blacks can be good at sports and music and they can at least feel like the whites think they are little bit cool. but the asians cant fit it. some asians study hard and become doctors and stuff like that but they still don't really fit in. they see white women and feel so jealous. so they cant fit in, they cant be cool, they cant be good at music or sports, they cant be funny, they cant be beautiful, they cant get beautiful white women because they lack confidence and are mostly boring and thats why they turn to the only think they have - islam. and islam tells them that the whites are inferior to the muslims. and that all the infidels women actually belong to the muslim. so all a muslim has to do is be muslim and when he dies he gets all those white females in "paradise". theres some truth for you right there and i know you agree with it 100%. the thing muslim men need to do is stop being obsessed with vaginas especially white womens ones and actually develop a personality and then they will actually be interesting to talk to and know. and if muslim males lived like that then they wouldnt care about the koran. muslim men are actually the most pussy whipped men there are, they are pussy whipped mentally. have a nice long think about what i have said and then reply and i look forward to reading that reply.
i don't care what you draw but if i did would you obey me when i tell you not to draw those things because i find it annoys me? you believe in the word "respect".. why don't you tell us what the word means without googling it? you have a problem with "ridicule" because it makes people laugh. if i drew you exactly as you look and it made people laugh would you call that "ridicule"? in what way is this film like what charlie hebdo do? charlie hebdo is a satirical magazine. this film is just facts being stated. there is no satire in this film. do you actually have a point to make? since you want the west to be obedient to muslims why don't muslims write down a big long list of all the things that upset them and the west will never do those things. then the west will write down a big long list of all the things that annoys them and muslims won't do those things.. is that what you want? "stir up trouble"? thats exactly it, muslims do cause trouble as a reaction to cartoons.
Do you really think the cartoonist was attempting to draw Mohammad as accurately as possible? Of course he wasn't. It was an attempt to annoy and insult Muslims. Why? Possibly because he thinks that by being anti-Muslims, he is being anti-ISIS. That is the mistake he made.
If I am ISIS, rather than attacking a superior nation directly and probably lose, I would influence the feeble-minded people in that nation into doing my dirty work for me and attack their own society from the inside out. Instead of being called a radical fundamentalist, ISIS would prefer to destroy mainstream Islam so that the ISIS version of Islam becomes the mainstream instead.
To do that they have to force the other 1.6 billion Muslims to join their ranks or be attacked by their own countrymen in western nations and in other parts of the civilized world. This strategy of theirs is already working very well, considering the number of people in Europe, the US, and Australia who are willing to support them to terrorize the 1.6 billion Muslims from their country. Doing the work of ISIS terrorists for them.
no one knows what muhammed looks like so any drawing of him won't be accurate. do you think the charlie hebdo drawing is mocking him? how do you know muhammed didnt look exactly like that? you don't.plus its a CARTOON. how realistic can it be. that is also their style of drawing. in the west we have the freedom to do things that "annoy" people. muslims think if they feel annoy its a big deal but thats how children react. adults feel annoyed about things all the time but they get over it. plus its not like muhammed or islam is even that important to us.. charlie hebdo did 3 muhammed covers i know of out of thousands of issues.islam isn't that funny or interesting. its just one of many religions that talk about the same boring nonsensical stuff but muslims take their religion seriously whereas other people realise that religion is nonsense from thousands of years ago.lots of muslims feel this way too but they don't admit it because of the penalty for leaving islam - death by means of removing the body from the head. muslims consider ANY drawing of muhammed or jesus no matter how photorealistic as blasphemy and are enraged by it. westerners brain just don't understand this. again ill point out nowhere in the koran is drawing muhammed forbidden and nowhere does it talk about punishment for blasphemy. ISIS is a rape and murder cult. their members cant seduce women in real life so this is what you get. when muslims males imagine paradise they picture lots of white women to have sex with. when these guys are captured they always find lots of porn on their computers. my opinion is this. there are two types of societies that are controlled by women. far left radical feminist societies and far right religious societies where everything a man does he does because of the control women have over his mind. islamic societies are on one end of the gynocentric scale. but you didnt answer my question.. why don't we all ask muslims for a big long list of things things that annoys them and makes them feel 'weely angwee" and then the west can spend all their days walking around making sure to not upset the emotions of muslims who are after all completely certain they aren't wasting their time on their knees talking to their hands in prayer that their is a god listening them.
I never claim that I know what Mohammad looks like, but I am sure that he doesn't look exactly like a cartoon character. So if the cartoonist doesn't know what Mohammad looks like either, why even draw him just to offend Muslims?
You have no right to try to change every single foreign culture into your own. That is NOT respecting diversity.
It is for the good of society that everyone maintains their differences so as to offer unique perspective. We are not trying to build a society where everyone is a borg.
he wasn't drawn to "offend muslims". they draw EVERYONE!!! what you want is for muslims and arabs to be EXCLUDED from things. what is wrong with you seriously. next it will be "muslims are not be shown in tv shows". i don't respect diversity. why should i respect "diversity"? some cultures are better than other ones and i want to live in the best culture. and as i keep saying to you and you just keep ignoring it, it is not forbidden in the koran to draw muhammed. the koran also doesnt say blasphemy should be punished. you believe the koran to be the word of god yet you don't follow it.. when you follow the hadith like it is the word of god although you know humans wrote it you are actually worshiping whoever wrote the hadith who was a human. this is the biggest sin in islam and you are committing it
For which mostly indiscriminate executions were carried out by Muslims. For a cartoon. Strange sense of "justice" besides being very illegal.
Most civilized people allow the courts to decide if wrong has occurred and what the penalty is. These groups think vigilante justice is the way to go. WRONG!
It has already been tried in court and the cartoonist won because there is no law against insulting someone else. Therefore, if I don't like you, I am free to insult your parents and your forefathers or anybody you respect, as much as I want.
Would that make people angry? Probably. So even though I have the freedom to offend anyone, that doesn't mean I should use that lightly.
you are completely free to try to "hurt my feelings" by saying things about my mother or father to great great grand uncle and i won't care.i would struggle to care what you think or say or draw. the cartoonists won in court and then some muslims murder them and other people who had nothing to do with the cartoons. so i guess it wasn't even about the cartoons. again i stress that drawing muhammed in a way intended to mock him is NOT in the koran. jesus is a prophet in islam and is often draw or depicted in the west. do you think that drawings of jesus are "insulting islam" and if not why not?
It is an insult to Muslims if any of the prophets are ridiculed or drawn in humiliating manner.
However, Muslims are violating islamic law when they kill others without justification. The only justification is self-defense or defending someone else, and it has to be a valid fear of immediate physical harm. (not a threat over the phone, not eg a drunken fool about to fall down saying they will beat them up etc - but a real, imminent threat). EDIT to add: and the harm can be only enough to stop the threat.. can't use deadly force unless necessary to stop deadly force)
Now what ignorant Muslims do, on the other hand, is an entirely different story. Just like Christians or Jews or Hindus who go around hurting others... they are following human nature, not their scripture!
"It is an insult to Muslims if any of the prophets are ridiculed or drawn in humiliating manner." i have to take issue with this statement. its not said in the koran that muhammed or jesus should not be drawn. the koran is the only book in islam that is the supposed word of god. however, in the hadith -which is not the word of god, it is forbidden for all muslims to depict anything with a soul yet shia muslims depict muhammed. if muslims feel "insulted" by things thats their problem. they are "insulted" by LOTS of things and if we in the west were to try to keep up and never "insult islam" with your way of life we wouldnt be able to. muslims also choose to live here.. they are free to return to paradise of the middle east, north africa or pakistan. and finally on your point, the idea that if a drawing is "humiliating" then that is only when they get annoyed. thats not true. if you label any drawing you have done as muhammed they will be very very emotional and in a rage. if you were the greatest artist on earth and could paint photorealistic paintings and painted muhammed exactly as he looked, they still would want to bebody you because they would FEEL emotions that make them very very angry in their bodies and prayer and looking into their hands and talking to the sky won't cure that rage.
Not when they use the scriptures as their justification they're not.
Being legal doesn't necessarily imply being smart or even being moral. Unfortunately, for societies, there is no law against stupidity.
i agree with you on that 100%.
I agree, its a pity stupidity can't be eliminated. Some refuse to learn anything other than what they've preconcluded is fact. You are a fine example of that, time and time again.
Would the drawing have "stink lines" on it?
Ooh, I'd have to kill somebody for putting stink lines on a picture of my mother.
To Muslims, Mohammad is probably a close brother. Insulting him and insulting their religion is akin to insulting them directly.
so what you are saying is that if you "insult" a muslim directly he/she will take that as being even worse than drawing muhammed which muslims consider an action that requires violence in retaliation. so since we know anyone can be a muslim guess drawing anyone of any race can be interpreted as "offensive to islam. also by your logic even if you draw an non muslim arab then that too is "insulting" islam.. the things you say make no sense I'm afraid.
What I am saying is that insulting Mohammad is like you are insulting a close brother or father. If Europeans/Americans continue to do that, then their Muslim allies may one day, choose to abandon their cause to attack ISIS and turn against them.
Western nations would have no more access to middle east air space to fly and no more access to their land to build their bases. Good luck trying to bomb ISIS while fighting your previous Muslim allies at the same time.
The problem with Europeans and Americans is that they were duped by ISIS sympathizers among their community that ISIS epitomizes Islam. This is what ISIS wants you to think so that they can be perceived as mainstream Islam. In reality, they are the enemy of mainstream Islam.
ISIS terrorists are the problems, not mainstream Islam or Mohammad, so stop targeting the peaceful Muslims living among you, just because they are easier preys than ISIS terrorists themselves.
I've already explained to that non muslims by definition think muhammed is either a character that was invented or muhammed is a liar. by being a non muslim, non muslims are "insulting" muhammed. why you think a cartoon is worse i don't know. muslims who turn to violence over cartoons were never allies in the first place. why are you so obsessed with ISIS? they are one of many violent islamic groups. give me examples of other things that "insult" islam since that its so important that westerners make sure to make it their number one priority to not "offend" these muslims who come to live in the west although they really wish they could stay in their pakistani or middle eastern heaven were islam is all they see.. as i keep saying too, the koran doesnt forbid drawing muhammed nor does it say that blasphemy or mockery should be punished. you seem to think its ok that muslims make up rules that arent in the koran
Well I am not a Muslim but yet I still don't share your view that Mohammad is a fictional character or a liar. So don't profess that you represent all of us, Non-Muslims. Most of us, non-Muslims, do not seem to have any problems living with Muslims at all.
Are the ISIS terrorists the typical mainstream Muslims? Of course not! But I do know that they have been advertising themselves to be mainstream Muslims through their propaganda and through their agents. And many feeble-minded people actually believed them.
you said "Well I am not a Muslim but yet I still don't share your view that Mohammad is a fictional character or a liar. So don't profess that you represent all of us, Non-Muslims. Most of us, non-Muslims, do not seem to have any problems living with Muslims at all".
so you are a non-muslim who thinks muhammed was a prophet who spoke to god? the only way to be a non-muslim is to think a, muhammed existed but didnt speak to god and made that up or b, muhammed never existed and was a fiction created by the people who actually wrote the koran. i look forward to you explaining yourself.. also ISIS are on of many violent muderous islamic cults that use the actual text of the koran to recruit people. muslims admit this too and saying that it has "nothing to with islam" hurts the cause of trying to weaken them.
Sure, he probably thought he was a prophet from god but whether he really was, is a matter of belief. There are people who truly believe that they saw an UFO and they are are not lying, but was it really an UFO?
i know this sounds like I'm an being an Ahole but i have to say to you that i feel like you are an intellectual lightweight and you just don't have the mental skill to handle this debate. you never respond to my reply which is based on what you have actually said previously. i perceive you have female linguistic tendencies towards illogic. on the UFO point, if someone saw a flying object they couldn't identify then that means it was an unidentified flying object. you said "Sure, he probably thought he was a prophet from god but whether he really was, is a matter of belief". no its not, its a matter of fact or not fact. he either was or he wasn't. but whether he was or wasn't, muslims believe he was and non muslims believe he wasn't. you say you are non muslim but then say you don't believe he wasn't a prophet.
You seem to have a disconnect with how reality. You said "if someone saw a flying object they couldn't identify then that means it was an unidentified flying object. you said "Sure, he probably thought he was a prophet from god but whether he really was, is a matter of belief". no its not, its a matter of fact or not fact. he either was or he wasn't".
How many times have you seen people who swear they saw a UFO and it turned out to be the planet Venus, swamp guess, an experimental plane, etc. MOST of the sightings are like that, they are NOT UFOs. Yet, that didn't stop people from reporting and thinking that they were real UFOs did they? So why didn't people "just know" that what they saw is a fact or not a fact like you said?
Regardless of what you said, most human beings DO make mistakes and scientists/experts are not always present with their equipment, to determine facts from fiction, anywhere and anytime.
Learn definitions. Anything flying, that isn't identified by the person observing it, is a UFO by definition. Once it's shown it was Venus etc, it no longer is a UFO. Your argument is just stup1d. Jack is correct, you don't have the mental capacity to debate him. WTF does your first sentence even mean, "You seem to have a disconnect with how reality." How reality what? Works? You have a disconnect with how logical thinking works, or how definition of words work. Trust you to go to UFO's, DarkSpirit, ShadowSpirit, DarkShadow or whatever name you're currently using.
Then you obviously have not learnt how to read. What is a fact?
If you and jack seem to know what facts are then let me you, was there a UFO crash back in Roswell or was it a weather balloon? Who was stating the fact, the government or the eye witness?
In the same way, if Mohammad claims to have met an angel, were you there to verify that he did not?
You would greatly benefit from some dictionary use. Fact- a thing that is known to be true, is proven accurate. As you and I and I presume Jack were not at Roswell, we have no way of knowing what is 'fact' or not about that. I cannot answer your silly question.
How do you know what Mohammad claimed, did you speak to him? No. So you have to trust that the authors, who we know some didn't speak to him also, are not only being honest, but 'knew' what they were saying is true. Trust and fact, different thing. Once more, I refer you to the definitions of the words.
to answer your first question directly. without getting into a philosophical linguistic debate over the word "fact" i will say that i use the word fact to mean that which is true.
to answer your second question directly: did an unidentified flying object crash in roswell in 1947 or was it an unidentified flying weather balloon which is also an object? the FACT is, i know i don't know the answer to that question. maybe humans had flying saucers or maybe aliens fly around in weather balloons. if i were to claim to know that would be ridiculous unless i was involved with the flight of the object or its recovery.
your third direct question is how can i know muhammad didnt meet angel from the bible in the year 610AD? i cant KNOW he didnt. main reason being i don't know what an angel is or looks like or how one is supposedly experienced. but no matter how much muslims say they "believe" in muhammad they are in the exact same position as me in terms of NOT KNOWING whether he met an angel or not. you said "whether he really was (a prophet), is a matter of belief?". whose belief? everyone on earth could believe the world is flat and it doesnt change the reality of it being round.
if you truly care about the UFO phenomenon i direct you to the french study "the cometa report" and to the "disclosure project" discussion. 95% of all flying objects that are witnessed that people cannot identify, turn out to be things like terrestrial aircraft and environmental phenomenons. however 100% of UFO sightings are unidentified until they are identified. a 3 year old who has never seen a helicopter before and then sees one flying in the sky is witnessing an unidentified flying object (UFO) from his perspective. is he witnessing alien technology. only if he is not an earthling. you brought up the UFO thing anyway
Hmm, so you think Mohammad is real, and not lying. Why are you not a Muslim then, if it's not lies?
No it is not the same. You know if you have a brother or father. You 'believe' Mohammad was something special. Being insulted because your illogical beliefs are critisized for the dangerous stupidity it is, is anther form of illogical thinking.
You don't even what you are talking about and you are spitting out as many illogical flames as you can just to insult anyone who disagrees with you.
Ok, go ahead, point them out, if you can. I am open to changing my mind if presented with a logically sound argument with supporting evidence. Something I've never read you even come close to doing, whichever incarnation you're using at the time.
Muslims are absolutely forbidden from hurting another human being except in self defense - that is, if they or another innocent person is in danger of immediate physical harm.
To support this: The Prophet Mohamed was frequently cursed at by non-Muslims around him. They also threw things at him - garbage, animal entrails etc. He did not respond, but still greeted those people with courtesy.
One such person was his neighbor, a man who yelled at the Prophet, insulted him, threw things at him on a daily basis. One day, the Prophet didn't see the neighbor - the neighbor was an old man, so the Prophet got worried. He heard the man was sick and he went to see him at the hospital (or what would've been the equivalent back then).
Despite the neighbor constantly treating the Prophet badly - humiliated him, throwing things at him - the Prophet went to visit him, concerned he hadn't seen him. The neighbor was so shocked at the Prophet's kindness after all the horrible things he did to him, that he became a Muslim.
Now that kindness & courtesy are part of Islam, what Muslims are "supposed to" do. But too many Muslims are ignorant of that, or just don't do it.
BS. What is the penalty for apostasy?
AFAIK, my cells don't think, they just do. Sounds like most religions.
Religion is for sheep!! They're s*upid and propaganda or not, the Muslims are clearly out of control and I agree that we have no freaking business in other people's countries. So Muslim's get out of America and go back home, America get the freak out of the Arab countries and all others as well.
I agree unfortunately the American's will never get out of the middle east, they are way to oil hungry. There are 100,000's expats working for oil companies there.
in 15 years there will be no oil and in 12 years the world will be powered by solar energy.. only 5000 days until the whites have no reason whatsoever to interact with the arabs and when that day comes i wonder what the arabs will do.. dive for pearls again i guess
You are guys are the terrorists. Christians and right wing extremist are the real terrorists. That is not my opinion or how i feel those are just clear cut national statistics. Muslims are murdered for being muslims at an alarming rate in the US. That is murder with a religious or anti religious motivation aka terrorism.
You go in to their country steal their oil, then illegally invade, brutally occupy, flatten their country and destabilize the entire region AND then you terrorize them in your own country. What is wrong with you people? Why do you have so much endless hate ?
disqus_9fhZYKUgbw You are dead on!! But check my version of your quote (it will make sense).. "You go in to their country (come onto their continent)... steal their oil, (their people, natural resources, land, etc..) then illegally invade, brutally occupy, flatten their country and destabilize the entire region (while destroying indigenous cultural systems that had existed long before Europe figured out how to get out of the cold) AND then you terrorize them in your own country (i.e. Ferguson, Eric Garner, the growing number of "deaths in police custody" that have been found to be modern day lynchings at the hands of police). What is wrong with you people? Why do you have so much endless hate ?
whites rarely "stole" blacks in africa. they bought them from black slave owners. slavery was legal in africa until 1981. blacks were masters or slavery and for you to only have a problem with whites being slave owners is racist. blacks owned blacks in the USA and even owned whites in other parts of the new world. on ferguson, if the cop has a gun and the guy is attacking him then why wouldnt the cop assume he is going to try to get the gun from the cop. when there is a gun in a situation its available to both so thats why you have cops firing on "unarmed" people attacking them. don't pretend you wouldnt do the same thing. george zimmerman is a psychopath BUT trayvon attacked him. he was following trayvon but following someone isn't a crime and for all trayvon knew they were going to the same place. cops deal with violent blacks ALL the time. the crime stats are what they are. eric garner was doing something illegal and resisted arrest. would he have died had be been of sound health, probably not. what is the safest way to arrest a huge man who is resisting arrest? at gunpoint? i dunno.. are cops often wrong, yes. are they inadequately trained. i think so. are they going about their day looking for situations where they can just kill black males. i doubt it very much. you'd don't tho.
It's good to you play the racist card so well. I don't live in the states and we are not killing muslims as you imply however we have been drawn in to this terrorist fear not through the actions of the military but those of these people that want to use their religion as a front to their own self serving ideals. All these Muslims keep telling us that that are from a religion of peace but until they stand up to the extreme element within their religion they are only kidding them selves with yet another lie that religion is brainwashing them with.
It is never going to improve whilst the Muslim community sits back for what ever reason and allows these acts of terrorism continue without stand up for the common good of all mankind.
The racist card exists cuz you guys are known for taking racism to incredible levels of brutality.
Muslims are taking on the damn extremist, whose popularity and power is directly fueled by your illegal invasions and mass murders of Muslims. These extremists use all your injustices to gain recruits and mobilize.
Muslims are being massacred on genocidal levels in Iraq and Palestine. They are being massacred by radical extremist barbaric right wing war mongering elements in the US EU And Israel AKA your right wing politicians. But thats not where the equation begins for you though, because hundreds of thousands of iraqis children and thousands and thousands of palestinians massacred regularly does not register in senses. You don't care the slightest bit that these people are being massacred by your governments. You only start to get concerned when a psycho shoots someone in your cafe.
Let me make something clear for you: There is no danger to you Americans and Europeans. You are going to go on watching your football and celebrity gossip while all these genocides are being committed in your name and with your tax dollars. You are just fine. Its the muslims in these countries that you invade that are paying the ultimate price for your blundering blood thirsty invasions.
Muslims are dying from these extremist elements in muslim countries and Muslims are dying from Christian extremists in Christian countries. They are the ones dying every where yet you guys can't stop complaing about your insecurity. 60,000 pakistanis have been murdered by afghan terrorists hell ben ton destroying Pakistan for aiding the US in the war on terror. Its the muslims in Iraq, syria and egypt that are fighting and dying from ISIS that was created as a result of the completely unnecessary brutal occupation and destabliization of Iraq. You don't understand the ethnic complexities of these cultures so your stupid leaders in the board rooms can not plan properly for all the back lash to the occupations. Millions of European, Russian and American jews that colonized and occupied Palestine because their god "Promised" them the land that other people are living in. Using religion to ethnically cleanse an entire country. If thats not the height of religious extremism occurring today than I don't know what is. But we should be going after cavemen who don't even know how to harness electricity.
None of this was happening before the war on terror. Iraq was stable, no alqaeda, Sunnis shias got along, There was never a single suicide bomb in Pakistan before this war on terror. You cause EVERYTHING and then you blame the victim for it. Jews and arabs lived side by side before Israel was forcibly created out of what was Palestine.
Bottom line if you are a moderate then you control your extremists and get them to stop invading and murdering people on the other side of the world Get them to stop propping up oppressive puppet leaders, and Get the foreign military bases out of Saudi Arabia their holy land AND THEN the moderates in that part of the world will be able to control their extremists since those extremists will not able to mobilize people to their effort. But you won't do a thing, its easier for you to sit on your couch watch the kardashians and fox news and Blame the damn muslims for everything.
Sounds like a lot af pap to me. They are dying because they are belligerent and they make war. I'm a leftist. I hate Fox News. But, religion is the culprit. If religion weren't taught until the age of reason, then we would be living in a totally different world. Google "religious wars" and you will find the fascist god of Abraham is the motivation for the worst of them.
They are not making any war! In their minds they are fighting off foreign invaders from their land. And they use religion as unification for their rebellious causes. Complete BS to me but the vast majority of moderate muslims dont have as much influence when the US and Europe come armed to the teeth and attack unprovoking arab countries. I agree with you that Abhrahamic relgions have always waged war. But its been far far far more done by christianity than any other civilization on earth.
It seems you would rather defend your terrorist friend than admit that your religion has fallen well short of being that peaceful religion you and the other moderates would like us non believers to think.
It never ceases to amaze me that rather than face the issues you would rather point out that the other have done it so why condemn us.
You are right in the fact that all religions have an evil side to them, but this thread is concerned with your religions evil element. If you want to argue against the other religions go and watch there docos and knock your self out bashing them, you will find I've already been there and told them what I think of their particular brand of BS.
It seems he doesn't want to do as the title of the doc suggests - We Need to Talk About Islam.
Arguing degrees of wrongness is absurd. They're both wrong when they promote horrific acts. What is hard to see about that?
Being against religion be it Hindu, Islam and any other religion you would like to include does not make some one a racist as it is a religion not a race. if I was to be a racist towards the Muslim faith I would have to dislike Indonesia and its people as it has the largest population of Muslims anywhere in the world. You are a fool at best you could claim that I am a bigot so if you would like to argue with me about what the extremist are doing in the name of your religion please open up your mind ensuring that you get your facts right and bring it on.
It would seem you have a reading comprehension problem as well as i have already stated that I'm not from the US yet you still accuse me of that. So by all accounts you are not willing to converse with anyone just throw insults and untruths around. But then being a religee I should have expected that rather than an actual conversation on how these things may be solved.
How have i blamed everything on the muslims?
I'm able to understand what racism means thanks for the 3rd grade lesson. Racists is just what white people seem to be. I can make that statement and then talk about religion. See how that works? They apply the same bigoted approach to other religions. I never claimed you lived in the states. But you are obviously from the west, as you have the same tired narrative of westerners that muslims need to do something about terrorism. And clearly showed you how the extremist came to be (cuz of the west) and showed you how muslims are standing up to them, thats why the extremists are massacring them.
You insinuate that Islam is not a religion of peace. But i showed you with clear facts, not opinions how muslims are the victims of violence from the west. And i showed you how they are standing up to the extremist that is why they are getting slaughtered. Muslims are getting slaughtered not Not christians or westerns. And then in the west muslims are again treated like 2nd class people, constantly demonized, harassed, abused, murdered, and constantly live in fear. So what the hell are you talking about?
its the Same ol story, westerners commit all these atrocities around the world and blame the victims. Its an old trick you've been using since ever. Black people know it very well.
It would seem that your comment "Racists is just what white people seem to be." is as racist as any comment that I have seen. If you think that only whites are racist then you should learn what racist is first. It is not solely a white issue at all and if you were to actually understand that you will see that you are being more of a racist than I am so far in this conversation. Even you assuming that I'm white shows you to be very racist in your own attitude.
I'm not insinuating anything I'm stating a fact:
The Koran contain a least 109 verses that call for Muslims to rage war on non believers for the sake of Islamic rule.
Here is a couple of examples;
Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and
strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this
world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore
strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
I could give many more than those however they clearly show you that the text is violent and no manipulation of the context of what is written could be taken as a peaceful statement.
No-one could take that as anything less than your holy book promoting the use of violence against anyone that does not believe in your fairy sky daddy.
Don't get me wrong it's not just your religion the I have no tolerance for it is all religion so don't think yourself special I'm bagging your religion as I know that all religion is evil and all the follower are not capable of rational thought.
Complete BS Jackmax
Quran 5:33 says "invaders who wage war against Allah and his messenger sh be killed or EXPELLED from their land"
What people woudlnt do that to any invading attacking occupying force?? It doesnt say to go out to Europe and start Killing non muslims. You are spreading malicious lies just like you and Fox News always do.
Quran (8:12) says that Allah will strike upon the non believers for not believing in Allah.
That is the basis of most religions. That in the after life God will punish you if you dont believe in him. He doesnt command muslims to go out punish them for not believing.
I challenge you to find one verse in Quran where it says to invade and occupy other people's land and murder them.There isnt any.
But you know where god commands his people to do that all the time?? IN the bible. In fact he commands his people to Massacre man women child and animals. and take the land. He even throws in constellation gifts, He says you can take all the women as "plunder". Now, assuming these women don't want to be with invading murderers, God commanding his people to gang Rape thousands of women. How f--kin barbaric is Christianity? Makes sense tho since that is what European and American military has done through out history and still to this day.
1 Samuel 15:3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"
When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies.
The Bible is the most violent terrorism manual in the history of man.
What part of my reply to you is complete BS?
You are no better than the terrorist you are defending by your dishonesty in whats written in your holy book the Koran.
The only bullsh*t here is coming from all you religee nuts that don't like the truth about your religion and the ill effect it has had on many young minds that believe that what is being taught is what they must do in the name of Allah.
It appears that you don't like the truth as it exposes your religion for the backward outdated piece of crap it is.
Both you book and the christian book are both full of lies and the clergy the preach these lies do not care about the truth and are only interested in lining there on pockets.
The part that is a BS is what you quoted from the Quran (which I don't believe in, in any way) you and genocidal white people soin everything about Muslims and portray it as demonic as possible. But I showed the meaning of the verses you quoted and it's not as barbaric as you make out to be, in fact it makes sense. Unlike the bible (which I also don't believe in) where God commands his people to commit the most heinous acts known to man. Why kind of God is that? What kind of religion is that?
Instead of just accusing me of being dishonest, show how I'm being dishonest with facts and evidence like I have.
I don't believe in religion and I'm not a Muslim nor would I ever defend terrorist, but what you people are doing to Muslims is outrageous you should be ashamed of yourselves. It's disgusting.
It amazes me that you can defend such writings the way that you have. You condemn christians in their beliefs and what is written in their book of lies, but don't except that the Koran has the same lies contained in it.
At least I can see the problem that us non believer are facing with all religion unlike yourself that appears to have very little knowledge of what is wrong with the context of the Koran.
How can anyone misunderstand this'
Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore
strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
I'm not defending anything I'm say that that Quran verse means : those who believe are good and those that don't God will tortue you in hell. Which what every religion says. God is not commanding Muslims to go and invade and murder non Muslims. But the God in the bible does command to do just this and he commands to gang rape women and girls as plunder.
Ah you may take it with the meaning us you present them but if you take another meaning you could very easily taken in the way that it has been written...
I could point out the horror that's in the bible, however at this present time I'm lucky enough to currently attacking another book of "bullsh*t"
From what I've read from all there stories should be exposed for the lies and evil acts against humanity and it doesn't matter what sky daddy they lie about.
You're only half right, BOTH encourage horrific acts if you're honest about it.
I told you already you took the verse from non muslim sources which maliciously interpret the Quran to be as violent as possible. Go to a Muslim run website that actuall understands Arabic and you'll see the translation is different. It's as I said "God will punish whoever rejects him" that is the basis I of all religions. For last time IT DOES NOT SAY TO GO TO NON MUSLIM COUNTRUES AND STRTD MASSACRING PEOPLE as the bible does. Get it though you genocidal racist barbaric blood thirsty terrorist brain. Stop reading the bible it is a terrorist manual.
Samuel 15:3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"
When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the Lord your God gives you from your enemies.
So your saying the passages I quoted aren't from the Koran? If so it seems that you have lost your argument as I took them from it even quoted the actual reference such as Quran (8-12)
It seems that you have a selective read problem considering that I have already stated that I think all religion is the root of all evil.
All you have done by defending one outdated belief system by show the flaws in another outdated belief system only confirms my point about all religions.
Your argument that this one book of lies is worse than the other is like saying two wrong make it right, which we all know is absurd.
You have stated that I don't understand the meaning of what is written, but if you have to try and find a creative way to manipulate the meaning of what is actually written then the problem is your understanding of language and words.
If someone writes "I want you to kill" can in no way mean "will you cuddle everyone you meet"
But that is what you are trying to convince us in your application of understanding of what is written.
No dude, What im saying is you are being creative in interpreting quranic verses to make them seem as barbaric as possible. MY POINT is That it takes a lot less creativity (or none) to interpret the Bible to be the most barbaric terrorist manual ever to disgrace humanity. Thats all.
You and Fox news can continue your demonization for everything that isnt WASP.
Im from New York and I have a much more real understanding of the world. You country, redneck, tea party, cousin f--king, gun worshipping, bible thumping, racist, backward inbreds can go kill yourselves with the guns you love. And you all should move to Texas and start your secession from the union movement cuz the country (and the world) is not moving in your genocidal direction.
Ok mate if you would like to break down the verses I've quoted by all mean go right ahead by do it properly is in ensure you grab a dictionary to ensure you understand the meaning of the words that have been written. If you want the true meaning of whats written then that is the most correct way of understanding of the context in it complete form.
You can attack the messager all you like but that will not change the message. You throw insults at me because you have lost your argument on so many levels that the only thing you have left is the insults. If you argument was sound you would be able to present valid and factual points that we could debate and possibly learn the different points of view and both end up with a better understanding of the problems we all face.
So Due to the fact that you live in New York you have a greater knowledge of the issues of the world. Your place of residents has nothing to do with you intelligence or understanding of the problems that the world in facing right now.
If fact if we were to look at your city and investigate the problems that are happening there one could say that you should be concerned with whats going on there and how you New Yorkers treat each other. How many homeless have you helped with in your city in the last week? Ah that's right your a New Yorker that's not your problem that at problem for some one else. It may pay for you to stop throwing stones at others whilst your own backyard is in such a mess.
I don't live in the States and considering I have informed you of this a couple of times now it seems that you are blinded by your own importance rather than the actual context of the discussion which is a real shame considering the importance of the subject
As I've stated at best you could claim that I'm a bigot. But that is still better that what you have portrayed yourself as. and that is a Racist bigoted dumb c*nt that has his head that far up his own ass that all he can hear and say is sh*t.
I agree with 'jackmax' and you have completely lost the argument, by your vicious insults and ad hominem. Which by the way is not allowed on TDF, we are trying to keep TDF a happy place where everyone can voice their opinions without resorting to name calling. Just because you are from New York does not mean you have more understanding then anyone else.
Your Islamic apologetics are just as absurd as the Christian apologetics you condemn. Your argument is extremely stupid. And that's being kind.
I DISAGREE what your saying i mean we are talking about and your talking interpreting the verses ?
And therefore you are barking up the wrong tree with Jackmax, as he condemns all aggressive religious beliefs equally.
Please explain how being from New York somehow gives you an insight others cannot have?
And btw, Jackmax isn't from the USA, assume BS often do you? Might want to re-think your absurd rant. Or not, stay ignorant if you wish.
What is the penalty for apostasy in Islam? The correct answer destroys your argument.
Whether Muslims are a victim or not has nothing to do with the religion condoning horrific actions. Your argument is logically flawed.
Racist or not, you are being stupid as to be tricked by ISIS. ISIS is the enemy of Islam and they have killed more Muslims than non-Muslims combined.
If you think that ISIS and Muslims have the exact same religion, then you have been made used of by ISIS to spread hatred against their worst enemies, the Muslims.
Selective reading on your behalf or is it a case that the question I asked at the end of the post you're replying to actually defeats your rant and blinded views.
You are using a fallacy to make your argument. No True Scotsman is a fallacy, as is your point.
iraq was "stable".. wow.. the butcher of baghdad saddam wasn't slaughering muslims no? whats wrong with a military base in saudi arabia? whats foreign about them? in other words, can saudi arabia hire american soldiers? can saudi arabia buy american built weapons and fighter jets etc? because if you think they can then aren't having those things the same as situation as is there now? the saudis needed the west to save them from saddam 1991 and asked the americans to stay. you said "You don't understand the ethnic complexities of these cultures so your stupid leaders in the board rooms can not plan properly for all the back lash to the occupations". don't they all claim to be muslims?? so sunni and shias are only fighting now because the americans removed saddam from power? talk about a point making no sense.. sunnis murder shia. if a "foreign" bomb accidentally kills an innocent shia then sunnis say "you killed a muslim,how dare you, we wanted to do that". "moderate" muslims cant control their extremists. they never have and never will. as far as israel goes.. jews were there long before there ever was an islam. if you want to play the "lets go back in time game" then you won't win that argument. temple mount is temple mount. the dome of the rock was only built there BECAUSE it is temple mount. if it were a synagogue built on an islamic site you would have a problem but the reverse doesnt annoy you? jews expelled 700,00 arabs from israel in the 1940s but the arab world has expelled more jews than that. plus in the years since, the arabs have started every war with israel. EVERY one!! and thats why you have the occupation. in what way has things enough since 1967 for israel to feel safe pulling out of the west bank? what happened after israel pulled out of gaza? the gazans elect hamas and all they want to do is fight. when i read your comment i honestly think you feel muslims are weak and unable to control themselves in anyway. i will agree with you tho on one point, in 12 years when the west gets all its energy from solar and in 15 years when the middle east runs out of oil the rest of the world should have no interactions with the muslim world at all.. they should leave them to the peace and prosperity and scientific advancement and social equality that only they can give themselves.and i think the muslim world should ban all things that come from the west - computers, airplanes and smartphones etc. and in this world you dream of all the muslims in the smelly horrible boring west can leave and go live in this middle eastern happy paradise where everyone is smiling and laughing and feeling good because the koran is a book.
Count the number of groups you named. You got a beef with everyone, apparently.
There is extreme element in every religion so are you going to persecute every single believer in the entire world?
If you are so dumb as to believe that ISIS represents true Islam, because their terrorists say so, therefore you have to believe them. Then you need to get a clue. ISIS is the enemy of true Islam.
i don't see muslims protesting ISIS. cartoons yes, a muslim being burned alive in a cage, no
Just because the western media didn't report it doesn't mean that it didn't happen. Rather than protesting they (e.g. Jordan) are literally fighting a war against ISIS, sacrificing their very lives against a powerful enemy. How is that for a protest?
Actually, I have seen more than one picture of western Muslims holding signs saying "Behead those who insult Islam" or another such version. How is that protesting against ignorant, barbaric behaviour again?
I have known Christians who burn non-believers at the stake.
Thus adding to my point that religion as a whole is a negative to us. Thank you.
Saying 'they're as bad as the others' is not an answer, or justification. I agree on your point, they're as dangerous as each other.
I'm against all religions it just at the moment I am expressing my views on islam so don't feel like I'm singling them out.
The problem is that rather than condemning these terrorist and their action you would rather defend the religion they are hiding behind. Calling me dumb for showing my disgust in any religion that promote violence in the way Islam does through the Koran and the teachings from many of the clergy that are brainwashing these young minds.
If ISIS is such a enemy of your religion why are you not standing up to there actions rather than condemn the people that do.
I don't think you are condemning the terrorists, I think you are doing precisely what they want you to do.
I have to hand it to ISIS for being smart. They have 2 enemies, enemy A and enemy B. They attacked enemy A and pin the blame on enemy B so that both enemies would annihilate each other.
You, are just naive to think that the religion that ISIS terrorists believe in, is the true Islam, simply because the terrorists say so. Just use your brains and think:
1. if ISIS believes in the same version of Islam then why did they kill many more Muslims than non-Muslims in total?
2. If ISIS believes in the same version of Islam then why did they behave so differently from most of the other Muslims?
The issue is that ISIS has FORKED a new version of Islam, which is more violent and intolerant of other religions (similar to your view), than the original true Islam. They have created a different religion from the original Islam. Therefore, they are not actually Muslims even though they like to call themselves that. They are, in fact, the enemies of Islam and Muslims.
All the attacks that have been carried out by ISIS, Daech, Boko Haram or any terrorist groups are to be condemned without any doubt. All Muslims of the western world have publicly condemned these acts. Muslims have been demonstrating on the streets against terrorism perpetrated in the name of Islam. In Morocco/Tunisia, the King/President have established schools in cooperation with France so they can educate the current and future imams from central and western Africa. In addition, ISIS is a problem in which all of us should be fighting. It shouldn't be made a Muslim problem because "United we stand".
What disturbs me the most in this video is that ignorant, lunatics and brainwashed Muslims are being portrayed as the face of Islam. While we have the freedom to express everything and anything, let's be responsible here. Some people watch this kind of videos and get more convinced that the problem of terrorism lies in Islam. The what do those people do? They go on and shoot innocent people because they are Muslims. In France we've had over 150 anti-Muslims/racist violent acts. The roots of the problem lie in terrorism itself caused by western terrorism. It's a vicious circle and we are the victims/puppets caught in the middle. Terrorists in the world are dividing us so they can justify further terrorism. And it's working.
I don't believe in religions but I do believe in respect and tolerance. The freedom of speech doesn't mean you can gratuitously insult people who also have the right to practice their religion (this is also one of the fundamental rights). This world is so diversified. Countries are multicultural. People have different beliefs, faiths, etc. Therefore the only way to function properly is by respecting one another and not crossing the line. In each nation (at least in the western world), we all have made a social pact under which we all accepted to alienate ourselves a little in order to receive protection. That is the base of freedom in a society. Freedom of speech is the same. Of course everyone should express their views but why is there a need to insult others? In order to live in harmony with one another, we need compromise. It's the same as in a relationships.
Also I don't think you realize how this terrorism is affecting the Muslim community. How do you think they feel when they see a bunch of loony barbarians chopping heads of in the name of a religion they're devoting their lives to? How do you think they feel constantly hearing that the roots of such horrific acts are Islam which is for them a religion of love? How do you think they feel when they're being stigmatized in western societies as being "terrorists" just because they are Muslims?
I'm an anti- theist and the idea that we can obtain peace through some fairy sky daddy is absurd and the problem is that so many fools believe their own version of this fairy tale. The sooner all religees realise that they don't have the mandate to preach to others because their book tells them to the better life for all will be.
logic is not the strongest asset religees have they all believe in some imaginary friend that will solve all their problems
Wrong. You say all Muslims of the western world have publicly condemned these acts. No, they haven't, that is the problem.
The same can be said of Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Hindus, Taoists, Shintoists, or Atheists. Yes, even Atheism is an "ism".
This is Trash with a tiny bit of truth. This means ITS garbage. This IS just another piece of Western propaganda. Our Religions are Superior and thiers' are barbaric. Meanwhile Western nations are SQUATTING in Lybia/Iraq/Bahrain/Quatar and other Muslim countries with bookoo barrels of OIL. Get the fugg outta here.
How about this; get the fugg out of those countries and stop demonizing them because YOU WANT THEIR OIL/GOLD/INVESTMENTS/HOLDINGS.
Everybody is tired of THIEVING Americans and Europeans
^ Spot on! That is the truth ^ First they plunder the hell out of these people's land. When any one them have a problem with it you demonize their "insurgency" and brutally suppress them. As a final resort they use religion to unify their people around their cause to expel the foreign thieves. And so you capitalize on it and demonize the entire religion. Not talking about ISIS here, but the legitimate resistance before it evolved into ISIS.
Complete hypocrisy for any westerner to begin talking about how brutal these people are with out addressing the occupation and mafia style extortion and strong arming by western powers to take these peoples oil. Take oil of the equation and the western corps, military and media won't utter anything about these people anymore.
Agreed, but take oil out of the equation and the military will still find a reason for war..... how else will they use up and replenish their inventory?
so the 1400 years of muslim men having sex/raping with their child wives in the muslims world is the fault of 20th century oil exploration and drilling?? when you say that everything the muslims do is because of whites you are actually worshipping whites by giving them full control and power of muslims. egypt today bombed murderous muslims and called for the west to help as saudi arabia called for the west to help when saddam was coming for their oil and resources in 1991.. where were all these fighting arabs when saddam and sons were raping their mothers and sisters and butchering their children for decades? the americans were the good guys in the 1980s helping the afghanis fight the soviet union but somehow magically became the bad guys months later when they saved kuwait and saudi arabia from saddam. the arabs don't know how to do peace, its really that simple.
don't worry.. the middle east will run out of oil in 15 years and years before that the west will get all its energy needs from solar and will have no need whatsoever to interact with the people in the "muslim world" or do any sort of business with them. .. when that day comes 5,000 days from today, you will know for sure if your opinion is valid or completely wrong. plus why are you acting like the muslim world would have any need for oil had the west not invented the industries and technology that even needs oil? in other words, what is actually being stolen from the arabs.. also on a side note I'm wondering why slavery was legal in africa until 1981..
Oh great argument, they don't know what to do with THEIR oil so you should have the right to plunder it. When their oil does run out and your armies head out of the middle east you will forever be seen as the plundering christian barbarians that you have always been through out world history. You hate muslims like you hate everyone else. You people just need to hate people, its in your dna.
i dont hate anyone.. my point is that oil would have no value if a, the west werent buying it and giving the arabs the only prosperity they have ever and will ever know and b, the west didnt develop a world that even needs oil.. what use is oil to arabs 1000 years ago? its useless without the technology the west has developed and shared with the arabs, a process of sharing people like you call "interfering".. plus you say its "their" oil.. no its not.. does a russian own the oil in russia.. no. does a muslim in pakistan have any claim to the oil found in iraq? no.. the powers that be in the muslim world are more than happy to do business with the west. without the west, oil is worthless and will be within a decade anyway
Nobody in Pakistan is claiming Iraq's oil. Neither Should the US corporations that send kids there to kill and be killed. The powers that be, that benefit from the oil, like the Saudis are oppressive dictatorships that are only in power due to US military presence. The arabian people don't want them dictators, but the dictators let the US set up military bases in their country (which pisses muslims off even more, Its like having an Iraqi military base at the vatican) the US military makes sure no one disturbs the Saudi dictatorship and in return the Saudi regime gives the US cheap oil.
NOW, your point is completely invalid cuz Sadam didnt want to sell his oil to the US anymore and look what happen to him and his country and the entire region. the US oil mafia got in and murdered half a million muslims. Russia and China would love to have a fair bid for the oil and they know how to mine and refine it just fine.
Actually, there are several technologies that can replace oil, work like petrol in running a car and not pollute-- they have been suppressed. It is not only the oil companies that are suppressing them, but the oil sheiks and princes who have been living lavish lifestyles for the past 90 years. These aristocrats have been keeping their people enslaved with religion for hundreds of years. Killing witches, cutting off heads, public floggings etc. These princes have been supporting terrorists in order to divert their attention away from them and towards other people. If the terrorists win, then the princes win because they have a caliphate. . If the terrorists loose, then the princes win, because they are rid of the terrorists. See how the game is played?
"These aristocrats have been keeping their people enslaved with religion for hundreds of years".. cant blame oil on that then.
Quite good except for the utterly silly conclusion about making aging a thing of the past and humans going off to live on Mars.
it was a response to the utterly silly fatwa which bans muslims from going to mars... articles of this fatwa were shown in the film.
There are some valid points in the second half of the documentary, but a lot of the statements made, particularly in the first half are based on misleading statistics and half truthes implied to be absolute fact and expanded to a religion where they would be more appropriately described as regional phenomena. You're not really asking a question, you're imposing a view. They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and I think that is appropriate here as well. I think that will only succeed in polarizing people further. If your aim is to have spirited rational discussion, perhaps you shouldn't start by pissing on everyone elses beliefs before asking questions or making arguments. It doesn't really help the atheist cause. Certainly provocative, but I wouldn't say it is thought provoking. The first 10 minutes was rubbish, I almost closed the window.
I am done defending Muslims. People are people, but if their world view is informed by their religion, Islam is worse than most. I don't see how an illiterate "prophet" from any century can be useful to us.
Are you done with defending Americans too? After all, no one else invades more countries, overthrows more governments, sponsors more terrorists or murders more innocent people than America.
I really don't see how the planet can survive much more of America's ending wars to control the world
I didn't bring that up and I don't recall that it was part of the documentary, either, but thanks for attempting to read my mind.
No, I'm not in favor of the USA taking war around the globe. You?
No. And one of the most despicable things the US has done is arm, train and fund Islamic extremists. The US created both al-Qaeda and ISIS. The US is behind all of the problems in the middle east and created the entire threat of Islamic terrorism in order to give them an excuse to invade countries and steal their resources. All the while the government and media have instilled deep Islamophobic feeling in the minds of the brainless zombies back home. Maybe one day people will wake up and realize they've been had
You won't get me to fall back on my position. I agree with much of what you said, but I don't feel sorry for the butchers of Islam.
The death toll of innocent victims by the "butchers of Islam" is probably around 10 000x less than that of America's, the champions of "freedom and democracy."
America's war on terror, has been a war of terror, and the atrocities they have committed in the Middle East, Latin America, Africa and Asia pale in comparison to that of Islam.
I am not a religious person, what I believe in is truth and justice. You are free to hate who you want, and I support those freedoms. But I would suggest you take the time to learn the truth behind the West's Islamophobic propaganda. Without our hatred of Islam and Muslims, our governments would not be able to wage their illegal imperialistic wars around the world. When I was growing up, the exact same rhetoric was being used about Communists. All they're doing today is substituting Islam for Communism.
As long as you believe their lies, you are a both pawn and a victim of their oppression
I'm a lost cause, so piss off.
Best of luck living with all that hate
I abhor violence - I wish your friends would, too.
I do actually have a few Muslim friends, and like you, they also abhor violence. Especially because their people have been on the receiving end of such a disproportionate amount of it
if your muslims friends don't believe that muslims who leave the faith should be killed then they don't believe the koran is the word of god and aren't real muslims. its really that simple.
It's even simpler than that. You don't know what your talking about and are merely repeating ridiculous propaganda you read online or heard on Fox news. If all Christians lived according to the literal word of the bible, we would be living in an extremely violent and barbaric word. That's something people like to ignore, when they quote things out of context from the Koran
whats your point exactly? the koran says what it says.. it said those things 1100 years before there was a USA. without the USA the arabs would have been sent to the gas chambers by the nazis or wiped out by the soviets. the arabs were happy for the west/USA to save them from saddam in 1991 and have happily been doing business with the west. egypt today called for USA to help them in their war. if an alien army came here tomorrow the world would turn to the USA to save us. i don't like the term but there is a such thing as collateral damage when it comes to war. for you to say that that is reason for the all abhorrent actions that muslim commit in the name of islam is so arrogant and condescending. muslims who follow their religion and believe that apostates should be murdered don't believe that because of some people accidentally killed in a war.
America is an easy country to attack, at first, because it appears restrained.
All you're doing is repeating the most ridiculous propaganda. It's obvious you've learned everything you know about the world from television.
There's a very good reason why television is referred to as "the idiot box". Turn off your TV, pick up a book and try and free your mind from the years of propaganda and misinformation that are polluting your mind.
Well by judging Islam to be the "worst" what criteria are you using? Because actually statistics would show that No religion can even come close to the global atrocities, genocides, slave trades, forced conversions, rape, plunder, pillage, holocausts, World Wars, militarism, imperial colonization etc etc etc that Has been done in the name of Christ by Christians. And I know your typical response will be that those event were not done in the name of Christianity but they were done by politically motivated tyrants. And I can show clear evidence of how Christ was invoked for every single one of those atrocities. In fact I challenge anyone to find a more genocidally violent and terror-filled book than the bible. Where God commands his people to attack and murder every leaving creature of a country and also commands them to take the women as rewards. Thats God commanding mass rape of women and girls right after he commands you to murder hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
Google what percentage of terrorist acts are commited by Muslims in US and EU. its less than 2%. These are official statistics.
You think I can't put together a documentary where i showcase every crazy nut job that I can find that belongs to christianity or any other religious group for that matter. Muslims are stupid as hell but so are every reilgious group. Christians believe that Chrsit is going to come back from the dead, thousands of years after his death and come rule the world with their Gods laws. NOW doesn that mean that all christians wont to impose biblical law on the world? Yes it does. Just like fools who believe in quranic prophecies about sharia law.
I didn't say worst, you did. I didn't read the rest of your rant.
YOUR WORDS: "...view is informed by their religion, Islam is worse than most..."
Ok you said worse not worst. More technical spinning of truth from the likes you bigots.
disqus... you're full of nonsense. But, I'm sure you feel good about it.
Thats a really detailed observation Phantom. Thanks for telling us all how you feel about it. No facts needed i guess, just your sorry opinion.
It's sadly amusing watching you talk about 'facts' while trying to defend 'beliefs'. Fact.. 'worse than most' does not mean 'the worst'. In fact it directly implies there is others that are worse..
Learn to actually read what is written rather then apply your theologic BS to change it to mean what you wish. That's a bad habit you've picked up from religion.
Awesome video. All points were spot on. Shame on the western press, they have rewarded violence and reinforced it's effectiveness.
Disagree with me, and i will beat you senseless.
Here I am disagreeing you racist, redneck inbred hick. Read what the FBI states that right wing christian terrorist committed more terrorism than any muslim group. In fact, statistical fact that muslim terrorist acts constitute 5% of the terrorism in the US. You are hateful malicious people that always need some group to pick on and demonize. Meanwhile Israelis have successfully taken over the US government, media and the banks. These muslims couldnt take over a 7/11 store. The real threat is operating in complete impunity they have you chasing a bunch s*upid sand kickers.
Islam is not a Race. So you claiming him a racist is wrong. You need to go back to school and learn what words mean. That, or think before you post incorrect statements.
Im calling him a racist because he is one. And on side not Islam is not race. But I'm sure he and all the right wing tea party nut jobs hate any race that are muslims. (or any race thats not white for that matter) Why do yo think they are always murdering innocent sikhs? Cuz they see how they look and want to kill them.
Why are you trying to defend Islam? Sure, the US and/or Christianity and Judaism have murdered and caused a lot of more terrorist attacks than the muslims, but this docu is about ISLAM, and I agree with it 100%. F*ck all religions. They´re a virus on humanity!
This is really sad. This is not worth my time or effort. All you are doing is promoting hate. At the start of the video you mentioned that the killing of the cartoonist has been portrayed by 'terrorist'. In fact, media loved this opportunity to promote more hate towards muslims. It is a religion of peace, so is Chritianity, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Wicca, etc. These are religions, they are history. Get over it. If someone wants to follow it, let them. Making a documentary in hopes to "enlighten people" is as idiotic and time wasting as talking to a group of blindfolded deaf people. A group of humans are happy, it's their choice. Personally, when I see a group of humans commiting crime and yelling "In Gods name", I think of brainwashed sad individuals. We all want paradise and telling someone they'll be in paradise if they commit a crime then surely they'll commit a crime. They believe this not because of religion but because the lack of education in religion and life. The west has traumatised countries like Iraq and Aghanistan. No education, no health care and no healthy life style in their home towns, they are in 'hell'. They want a way out, and that way out is paradise. They get there by commiting crime. It's not religions fault, it's the f--king west ruining peoples life.
I'm sorry if I caused offence, but I am offended by this thing you call a 'documentary'. Not because my religion but because you're accusations of how a certain faith equals terrorism. What about other terrorists acts? Are they also influenced by Islam?
For being, "not worth my time or effort" you sure spend both time and effort. Just like Black people shouting down anyone who comments on Black crime as a "racist" you refuse to consider any point no matter how factually based. When a person can not accept their mortality they go crazy or turn to religion and accept any fanastical explanation and follow any unfounded rule in the singular hope of avoiding the finality of death.
A religion of peace!!!! So it would appear that you haven't read the koran or the bible for the matter. if you had you would see that both books promote hate, intolerance and violence though out all Abrahanic religions...
It would seem to me that people don't understand that "freedom of religion" also includes "freedom from religion" and the soon the religee realize that they don't have the right to force their BS to others the better humanity will cope with the more important issues we are all facing like global warming and the destruction of our plant.
Buddhism, Hinduism and Wicca have nothing in common with Islam. They are the first to get their heads cut off.
Yes we need to keep talking about this topic ... it has taken me three years to get my family to see the truth ... about Islam .. people in the west are so naive about this religion.
I've been to the East. I've seen a beheading. It's bad news. Had to keep my mouth shut while i was there. Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens and Bill Mhar have made the best points about all of this.
Yes we do need to talk about Islam. Just as we need to talk about the Jews, Social Marxism, Feminism, Multiculturalism and Freemasonry. Enough of this "protected species" BS.
A grdeat video. Radical islam (is there any other kind) needs to be criticized for it's violent and evil actions.....though Russell Brand is the wrong guy to pay any attention to, whatever his opinions are.
How do you know Russell Brand is the wrong guy to pay attention to, if you don't know what his opinions are. Very confusing.
Because Russell Brand is a self-serving, drug-fked twit who chases what he thinks will satisfy his 'look at me' personality. He may be talking sense on an issue, but there are others much more worthy of hearing it from, that haven't fked their head with drugs and can make a point without it somehow being linked to an attempt at self-advertising. In short, Brand is an id1ot that has little more to offer other than 'look at me'.
I watched some and I see this as an anti-muslims point of view,
not a documentary.
The first 10 mins are obvious how " why we dont criticise " wich isn't accurate and " why we praise " wich is a stupid statement.
great comment. I'm wondering why you waited until after you had seen "some" of it until you commented about what the whole film is.. would have been great if you could have commented on the film for us BEFORE you seen "some" of it because that is the type of comment we all think is worth our time reading
There is only 24 hours in a day and after making my opinion I actually listen to myself.
I won't waste time listening to a racist telling me why he's racist.
Also you should have noticed it's the most frequent opinion in the comments,
comments in which you spend your time barking to everybody who's saying that this movie is very subjective.
Either you have a reason to do so, either you'r a racist yourself, either you have nothing to do with you time.
In all cases, you could do some reading, or some cultural visits, that would upset nice people on the internet less.
FGM is a cultural problem not a religious problem!
Are you somehow trying to defend Islam? You already admit that FGM is a problem, which is in agreement with the video. To separate culture from religion in an Islamic society is ludicrous and arbitrary, if not completely impossible. Yes, there are some Islamic societies that do not perform it, but in those that do, it is almost always religiously justified. In secular societies, such as the USA, religion can be thought of as a subset of culture. However, in non-secular societies, such as an Islamic state which institutes sharia, culture is a subset of religion.
So what about African Christian countries that do FGM. if it seems that countries of all religions in Africa do FGM, then it would be an African cultural tradition and not specific to any one religion. In fact Middle Eastern, Asian, and European muslims countries do not do FGM. So can we use our heads here and see that it is not a f--kin islamic practice. It is an African practice that prob dates back to before islam and Christianity and prob got reappropriated.
Do you understand that Indonesia is NOT part of Africa? All you've done is argue it's a religious practice... which is not disputed. You don't seem to realise your argument defeats itself. Saying 'some of them do it too' is not justification, despite your absurd efforts at doing so.
cool. and religion isn't part of culture and vice versa no?
your argument was put forward was poor. there were huge gaps and filled with fabricated information i.e. FGM. just because you have placed soft music in the background doesn't mean what you were talking of was valid in any sense. I would highly recommend you to please read quran and stop try to point out difference and talk of unity and peace...you little war munger. Btw, male circumcision happen in Judaism as well.
I agree this doc is incite-full, but also insightful. i know many muslims, many who are affiliated with their local mosque or temple-they are generally warm, but fairly devout. i pity the fool who would spit on their beliefs. I was thinking, yes, CNN is protecting themselves from retribution, but also respecting a religion and culture that isn't theirs. In the context of some of the other docs like a secret history of the CIA or terrorstorm, I sympathize with how muslims and their counties have been vilified by the west. Yet there are also idiots who make no bones about making the entire earth muslim. No need to stir up the kettle, eh?
Its simple to find any crazy f--ks in any religion that spew out a bunch of raging bulls*it. Lord knows theres plenty of militant crazy christians that you can do a whole documentary on. In fact someone should, since Right wing extremist are responsible for 90% of the terrorist acts in the US and EU. Muslims being only 5%. This is statistical fact as presented by the FBI.
U.S. right wing extremists more deadly than jihadists - CNN
So, let's not talk about crazy Muslims or we'll make someone feel bad.
"Someone should do a documentary of Extremist Christians." WTF are you on about, there are plenty of them. Have a look around TDF for starters. Instead of finding others to point the finger at, have a look in the mirror first.
Your counter argument is very weak, the music has no bearing on the information shown in the film. Why don't you attack a specific part of the film, using evidence and reason.
And who mentioned war.
OK here' s a specific example of the blatant malicious misinformation propelled in the film: when Reza Aslan is labeled with "hypocrisy" by the film maker for claiming that "christian countries" do female genital mutilation. He said "christian countries" to point out that if christian countries and muslim countries practice a certain brutal tradition, then it can't be labeled as a "Muslim Country" issue. It is an African Issue. And this is the flaw in the reporting. It seems the media and other powers take every bad thing that happens in any context that might even remotely involve muslims, and purposely promote it to be a barbarism that is inherent in islam. its F**KIN BULLS*IT You all are idiots or support the agenda to demonize people.
OK here' s a specific example of the blatant malicious misinformation propelled in the film: when Reza Aslan is labeled with "hypocrisy" by the film maker for claiming that "christian countries" do female genital mutilation. He said "christian countries" to point out that if christian countries and muslim countries practice a certain brutal tradition, then it can't be labeled as a "Muslim Country" issue. It is an African Issue. And this is the flaw in the reporting. It seems the media and other powers take every bad thing that happens in any context that might even remotely involve muslims, and purposely promote it to be a barbarism that is inherent in islam. its Its NONSENSE You all are selectively ignorant or support the agenda to demonize people.