The Cu Chi Tunnels

The Cu Chi TunnelsDuring the war in Vietnam, thousands of people in the Vietnamese province of Cu Chi lived in an elaborate system of underground tunnels. Originally built in the time of the French, the tunnels were enlarged during the American presence. When the Americans began bombing the villages of Cu Chi, the survivors went underground where they remained for the duration of the war.

The secret tunnels, which joined village to village and often passes beneath American bases, were not only fortifications for Viet Cong guerillas, but were also the center of community life. Hidden beneath the destroyed villages were schools and public spaces were hospitals where children were born and surgery was performed on casualties of war: underground were schools and public spaces where couples were married and private places where lovers met. There were even theaters where performers entertained with song and dance and traditional stories.

The Cu Chi Tunnels, a Mickey Grant film, is the story of life underground told by the people who lived the experience. It is a story told by a surgeon, an artist, and actress, an engineer, and the few survivors of the guerilla band who left the tunnels each night to fight against an enemy of vastly superior strength.

Attached to the guerilla bands were Viet Cong documentary cameramen and camerawomen whose footage of the war from the Vietnamese point of view and of love, life and death in the tunnels has survived and is used in the film. This extremely rare footage povides a fascinating kind of echo; we see and hear an actress perform in the wartime tunnels and then hear her describe the experience nearly thirty years later.

Watch the full documentary now

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Ratings: 8.07/10 from 27 users.
  • Claes

    In a way funny when one in the video is talking about how the american soldiers were shooting eachother, I laughted so much. I wouldnt trade 1 vietnamese for 100 americans neither would anyone I know of, and I live in Sweden. U.S is a country going down if they cant change their acts around the world. Best thing for the whole world would be in we isolated U.S and build up everything from start without them taking part of anything. Then nuke them.

  • stab

    Well, Heil Hitler Claes! I am an American and I can understand your feelings, trust me. In fact, the vast majority of people here are more outraged than any euro-elitist could even understand. The government here was stolen from the people by big business along time ago. Pres. Eisenhower warned us about our future by pointing out the danger of the Military Industrial Congressional complex to the people in his presidency exit speech. The vast majority of the people along the coast lines and in big cities here would agree with you, wall up the Corporate Fascist! Lets start over! I'd be careful with the rural farmers and southern baptists though,they would have you for dinner.

  • Charles Mc Farlane

    Thank you so much for putting up these documentaries.
    Especially, the Vietnam Chu Chi Tunnels. I spent much of my life trying to understand what happened to my close friends in a foreign land I didn't understand, and why they died. Now I get a story from the other side. Thanks and keep up the good work!

  • Ambricourt

    Peasant cunning prevailed against the latest military technology. It's a brave, magnificent story which will be zealously told and re-told through future generations.
    But less than fifty years later, new weaponry makes survival of an enemy in tunnels, or caves, impossible.
    Every war produces new means of attack and defense; but, in the gap of time before the start of the next war, these new methods of attack and defense become outdated. Scientists and strategists study the past war and devise new weapons...
    Can't humanity get out of this vicious cycle?

  • Casan

    It is amazing how a few moronic neocon policy makers can taint the image of a nation that freed the world from the scourge of fascism.

    Paul Wolfwitz, Dick Cheney, and the fat headed nerd, Karl Rove who wanted to impress everyone with his brilliance by crafting a campaign that saw to it a half-wit named George Bush become the president of the United States. Don't even mention Donald Rumsfeld.

    So this makes me question the validity of the democratic system, are they just organized cowards who use democracy to prevent bloodbath among themselves but lack the courage to do anything when one party goes over the top and starts to bully a sovereign nation?

  • Ambricourt

    I wish genocidal bombing of a peasant people by a currently omnipotent nation could be dismissed as a matter of personalities and parties. The US and its allies, forced into alliances, have waged wars almost without cease since 1945.

    The sad conclusion is: capitalism cannot survive without a permanent war economy. Production is the great achievement of the system: distribution has always been a disaster. So preparation for war, war and war relief become the major
    modes of distribution. Besides structuring the whole economy, the process stimulates technical innovation, some parts of which (like internet) trickle down to other uses.

    Just thank your God you're not one of the peasant peoples - not a Korean, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Laotian, Panamanian, Dominican, Iraqi, Afghan, or Pakistani to have deserved American extermination: not a Kenyan, Malayan, Yemeni to have suffered British killing. And these are just the wars we know about...there are others.

    Praise the Vietnamese for resisting and exposing the system that rules it.

  • SoloPocono

    I agree with much of the above comments-just a few comments. The US is no longer a "production" system-almost 85% of our products, including computers and killing machines, (The Defense Dept outsources the majority of it's work), are done in 3rd world nations by poor people getting paid a pittance of what US workers used to make--yet they're no more cheaper.
    This Country has turned into to ruling Corporate Class who, especially as of Thursday, has the same rights as a single Human being. Yes, a multi-national, multi-trillion-dollar corporation can now buy ads, and basically campaign against ANY Politician they don't like or won't do as they say. They can do everything EXCEPT give him dollars... We have become the Divided Corporate States of America because of one party's Greed for money and power. They have, and continue to brainwash Americans with their false prophets, religious extremism, revisionist history and money that funds their False "Patriot" movement. It's amazed me that people don't have enough knowledge, can't see the psychology these people are using, (Projection)nor take the time to research themselves--with accurate historical documents, congressional records, etc.
    Even now, with the horrible, heart-breaking tragedy in Haiti-these people haven't failed to politicize it. Tonight, I watched the most touching, moving, benefit I have ever seen in my 50yrs. ALL Networks carried,..except one. They used those crucial two hours condemning and demonizing the opposition. Even making the outrageous claim that THEY had "murdered the other networks in their coverage of Haiti"-Bill O'Reilly, FOX Network The face of the New, Fascist Corporatocracy.
    My children are going to be moving me out of the Country next year. This will NOT end well....

  • SoloPocono

    PS When I was in High School, I talked my family into taking in a close friend She had just moved to the US 2years earlier and had been granted a scholarship to the school we went to. Her family had to move so her father could get a decent paying job.
    I Miss my Khuong..we've lost touch over the past few years, but she went on to graduate from Law School Magna Cum Laude. Her family was one of the last to get out while Saigon was "falling". They went through Hell and back. Last I heard she is a very successful attorney in DC. She always wanted to be Secretary of State one day... I wish she was....

  • FLGuy

    Interesting documentary and I have to say...most of your comments here are ****** at best. @Claes...you would be speaking German now if it were not for the US. @Casan...the true half-wit is our current President who is, in no way whatsoever, qualified to be a President. You folks live in Lala Land.

  • hitchi

    @FLGuy

    I believe the soviets had a part in ww2 also, and that part wasn't founding nazi war industries...

  • Battleangel

    Great Documentary. Very moving and powerful. Finally the story of Vietnam told from the true victors of the war. It is stories such as these Vietnamnese survivors and fighters that make me truly proud of humanity. These people will certainly go down in history as the heroic resistance fighers they are and hopefully inspire other third world movements for liberation from western powers. I just wish that Americans had learned their lesson...

  • Ambricourt

    Battleangel, let us appreciate the documentary as the reliable record of a past war: peasants with modest technology, mostly smuggled in from USSR, successfully resisted US power which was increased by a few zealous allies, such as Australia and New Zealand.

    But, Battleangel, to attempt such a struggle now would be disastrous for the the lesser power.

    First, they would be immediately labelled "terrorists"; two, satellite surveillance and bunker-buster ordnance could quickly annihilate them; three, the US high-tech allies now include more than sixty countries who are supported by huge contingents of murderous mercenaries (as in Iraq and Afghanistan).

    The American military has long ago absorbed the lessons of Vietnam, devised new methods of attack, expanded its power to approximately a thousand military bases and "listening-posts" around the world, and currently insists that this global strategy is essential for defending the US against "terrorist" attack.

    No plane can fly in the sky, no ship can move on - or under - the oceans, no vehicle can move on roads without its activity being noted by US (and allied) satellite intelligence. This is a major aspect of "globalism".

    And even the future is covered... throughout Africa, US special forces have been training and arming specific tribes to act on US orders in the event of any civil disturbance in their area. If there an uprising, the tribes will be ordered to suppress the dissident group; the international media, if they bother to report the matter, will claim that an ethnic or sectarian struggle is taking place; soon another US puppet leader will take over the region and, before long, he will sign away its remaining resources to US, British or French corporations... Even the Vietnamese government is now in league with US and Japanese corporations...

    Battleangel, your sentiments are romantic! Cherish them, nurture them, if you choose.

    But, please, don't encourage others to take up arms for "liberation from western powers". That time is passed.

    We live in the age of mass destruction, instant annihilation and robotic killing.

    For the last sixty years, the taxes of people in all affluent countries have been dedicated to making killing more automatic and finding ways for the governing elite to persuade these same taxpayers that plundering impoverished nations is a corporate right.

  • VietcongIsDevil

    I am a vietnamese. I live in Bien Hoa (near SaiGon). I have close relatives who had lived in Ba Diem, Hoc Mon, Cu Chi ( The area that this documentary is talking about) during the Vietnam war; and they are still living there.

    As a Vietnamese and knowing about this area, I have a big laugh when watching this documentary: THIS IS JUST ONE OF THE PROPAGANDA FILMS MADE BY VIET CONG (communists).

    1. YES, Cu Chi had a great system of tunnels; however, this film is not REALISTIC. In fact, they had oppened some of the tunnels for tourists; come and see the real thing.

    2. The translation is not ACCURATE. Many people in this film said stupid things and gave many comments those are NOT TRUE.

    3.

  • Skye-hook

    @ VietcongIsDevil- thanks for saying so! More people need to be like you. You step up & speak the truth. Anyone who wasn't/isn't there, really can't know the truth unless people who were there tell us all.
    American government may still need a lot of changes, til we get it right, but the American men & boys who went to VietNam to fight, did it FOR VietNam, against the VietCong!
    *Anyone NOT from the USA who speaks against the USA for the wars where another country truly needed us, like VietNam, is speaking of things they don't know about. Maybe some in our government had their own power/$ agenda, but most Americans intended to be helping!
    *American men & boys have had to die far too much in defense of other countries who later bad-mouth us, & I for one am darn tired of it. Why don't you other-country big mouths go fight and die for a country that needs your help, & let our guys stay home alive for once? You think we like being the world police? Put your life on the line instead of ours.
    * Any doofus can bad-mouth someone else & not go do the right thing themselves.

  • Skye-hook

    BTW, I forgot to say this documentary sounds like it has more VietCONG in it than average VietNam citizens! The War AGAINST AMERICANS? FOR the VietCONG then??? Talk about raging propaganda! These must be some of the people we heard about who helped the bad guys who were trying to take over their country. Some people are just plain nuts.

  • Ambricourt

    Skye-hook does not bring tears to my eyes. If American "boys" have had to die in war since 1945, it is because America is hell-bent on acting as the world's self-appointed policeman, plundering the world's resources and waging permanent war against every other nation on the planet.

    When a man becomes a soldier - and I have been a soldier - he starts by pledging to lay his life on the line at the command of a superior. Then he is trained to play some part in a collective killing-machine. The US soldier is more savagely trained and better equipped than any other; to my observation, he also brags and whines more than any other soldier. And the US military has the highest rate of suicide of any military in the world.

    I have more sympathy for the Vietnam Liberators fighting to free their land from Britain, France AND America. Their punishment continues to this day in the form of cancers from US chemical weaponry used against people and places; American "boys" flew high above them, listening to pop music, while dropping biological and chemical weapons on peasants in underground tunnels. In today's world the "bad guys" - murderous in action and servile to their leaders - are mostly Americans. Look at your ageing self Skye-hook - and weep.

  • muchi muchi

    Hi
    I didnt get to see it damn, it would've probly been good as...

  • Dutch guy

    @ FLGuy: "you would be speaking German now if it were not for the US."

    Yes, you are absolutely right, I don't speak German. But guess which language I speak now?

  • woody

    Quite a pitty this whole story.

    Seems like left propaganda to me.
    of course the people of vietnam fought a desprate war with defeat being almost certain yet they prevailed yet lets not get all anti american here..when you look at the big picture i think the reasons the suport south vietnam where good however this turned out to be one nasty little war i dont think the US expected this i do think that in general the states should concern themselfs with matters closer to home but then yet again all the american lifes given in the vietnam war where an utter waste considering the soviet union fell in the end.....besides..America..for blam sake..it might be a super power..but it doesnt dominate the world..europe and asia do...

  • Jonathan

    @ Claes... You're a dumba ss. Resorting to "nuke them all" shows what a knob you are. Sweden is hardly in a place to speak about any war. The decisions made during WW2 make it virtually impossible to do so. Soak up your media-fed beliefs about the US. People and government are two different things... You can fault the US government, but generalising about a typically good people i just stupid. Given Sweden's latest election, a decent argument for racists could easily be drawn. Sveriges Demokrater is hardly something to be proud of. Tills du verkligen vet något om USA förutom krig (så att du inte blandar ihop politiken med folket) är det nog bäst att du håller käften.

  • http://paper.li/HOUNDSofDOOM Dez Troy-Carter

    @ Claes
    The 'nuke them all' part was dispensable, two wrongs never made a right.

    @stab
    Do something about it then. Put your eyes in the Egyptian and Tunisian populations, who after enduring a much harsher and longer struggle than yours, still come out fighting with all guns blazing or all rocks flying, in their case.

    Even the euro-elitists, as you called them, gave their respective establishments the "good news" after the "austerity measures" were unleashed on the British, French, Greek, Irish, Portuguese and Spanish populations.

    All we see in the US is Tea Party this, Tea Party the other.

    Give the Christian far right something to remember, expose them for what they are. Plus I don't agree with your claim that 'The vast majority of the people along the coast lines and in big cities here would agree with you', as I doubt they want to be nuked ;) Just joking, now seriously, I think the American population, by enlarge, is well out of synch with the rest of the Western world, just check their obsession with religion to understand my point.

  • ichero

    One of the most awesome films I have seen on the Viet Nam war, finally from the side of the bombed and occupied Vietnamese people. What a resilient and inspiring people. The US had become a cyclops of its time, an ignorant behemoth techno culture which set upon an agrarian Buddhist country with every chemical weapon and thousand ton bombs doing saturation bombing for no reason. For no benefit but to the wealthy elite of the US, and their military-Congressional-security state.

    Students in the US were tear gassed, and some few were killed, trying to stop the industrial complex from rolling over the world, in this case, Viet Nam, Laos and Cambodia, and destroying their environment and reaping genocide on the people of Viet Nam. It was really refreshing to hear of the defiance and of the understanding of the Vietnamese people about what was being done to them, and to their country. And that they knew what it was going to take to defeat this invader/occupier, alien to the people of the earth.

    Being able to live and survive underground in the ingenious labyrith of the tunnels that saved their lives is tribute enough to the spirit of a noble and highly intelligent people. I bow to the Buddha in the people of Viet Nam. Thank you for being so brave. I did fight the 'war at home', and was tear gassed in the streets of madison while a young student. All I knew at the age of barely 18, was that killing people is wrong. And so I protested what the empire of the US was doing half way around the world.

  • ichero

    Prologue: And it is still going on half way around the world again, in Afghanistan, Iraq, and soon Libya. Time for everyone to start digging the tunnels as the blind empire, with its insatiable greed for resources, continues to roll over the people and the earth until ...
    "...the last river is poisoned, the last tree is cut down and the air is unfit to breath, only then will you {the empire} realize that you can't eat money."
    ~~~Cree prophesy

  • 91b20

    Communist propaganda , how much money did Hanoi pay you for this Mr. Grant ?
    Whats really funny is the Viet cong thought that they would share power with their commie brothers from the north , once the war was over Hanoi tossed them aside like a piece of trash.

  • Robin_Hood_89

    let this be a lesson to all of us, this one day could save our sovereignty! i myself have been there, no matter how many bombs were dropped, parts can still be navigated today

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_W3ZZRO7YU2CLYM7NNGYEUTUMZA direwolf

    I do remember we were terrified of these tunnels because of all the booby traps around them- -they knew where they were - we didnt.
    F*** - these were the scariest missions we were assigned> find and destroy the tunnels - in the day time is was scary, when it got dark it was f***in terrifying
    I wasnt near CuChi- but- These tunnels were all over that damn country
    A lot of this may be propaganda film- -but for the most part , it was very real.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YV74T4KDYPZUUCGJZ6LPCBATTM Bruce

    Outstanding..so often we hear the voices of Americans and see images from the American side of the camera..here we see and hear the Vietnamese - brave, resourceful, committed and dedicated to eachother. How can communism be so bad when such people are so good and fine...how tragic that our leaders spent untold sums of money and munitions trying to kill human beings of such quality. I had long believed the Vietnam war a horrible and brutal conflict fought for the very worst reasons possible - a war prosecuted by innocent boys at the behest of criminals...this documentary only further solidified my view....thank you so much for posting this.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YV74T4KDYPZUUCGJZ6LPCBATTM Bruce

    how very sad that you still hold such resentment...how tragic that you can't let go of your dogma and prejudices to hear the words of the people who were there...on the other side...not the wrong side..just the other side...your ilk are to be pittied...I pray that one day you will free yourself from hate and bitterness that you might live in peace and harmony with those who take a different view from yours...

  • chris2ki

    Great Doc and absolutely true to every event and description as what did happen. As the person saying he or she is vietnamese although the translation is not fully in inscription but there is no fault in any of the translation but it could have had been better.
    And you definitely need to read more history of our own country more cause your the blinded one and you should learn more on the history of your own country of all the war they gone through China and during the French in control people were treated like slave and all the crop and good was shipped out of the country for their own benefit while people inside the country starve to death there was no freedom and thats how the Freedom movement begin once Ho Chi Minh was luckily got the chance to leave the country working as helper in the kitchen on their ship and expose all whats was happen in Vietnam once he reach America and other place and with the help of the people he gets to meet which lead to the freedom movement and became as a Hero he is today.
    Bac Ho Chi Minh the great person in my eyes a and all his follower fight for the freedom of his people because they surely didnt have much during the french. After the American got involve and blind you South Saigonese with their money so you people sell out your own country with promise of great benefit, you think American agree to help base merely for the great of the vietnamese people?. since when ? not then and not even now you need to open your eyes more in see the reaL TRUTH in this.
    Communist then was not like it was today in Vietnam sure there more greed today , back then it was only about survival and freedom.
    Before the war even happen Ho Chi Minh actually wanted peace with America and not fighting against them. they refuse then see him as a threat later on and with the intention to take total control with the help of the South.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=584866646 Jiri Bielicky

    The US had numerous allies to help win the war. If it was not for the Russians,who really won the war, you would not be even have a Iron Curtain cause you would be in Hawaii wondering what hit you! By the way Dutch Fag, I am Canadian so you are most welcome for being liberated by us, not US!!!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Trang-Swan/1108677061 Trang Swan

    @VietCongIsDevil: I know wat sort of person you are. Holding grudges against the past, a sad and yet heroic past of My country (reckon it's Not Our country). I went to Cu Chi Tunnels myself and can confirm that the documentary is excellent in presenting what happened in that chaotic time.
    War was not what Vietnamese people wanted, not what American solider wanted.

    Funny enough, those people who actually suffered, who lost their hands, their legs, or their relatives look for brighter future, showing forgiveness and keep the hope of being friends with the old devil enemies whereas, ironically, people who used to abuse their own people then surrendered from the mother land kept the resentment forever and act like they are so righteous that the 'Republic of VN' ghost keep haunting them. How pathetic it is.

    If I had a wish, I wish Santa Clause would make them see how sad they look like and wish them happiness.

  • Guest

    @Trang Swan,

    I don't agree much with your comment. Not at all.
    Oh! I am not from South East Asia, not even an Asian.

    Vietnam war always interested me, a lot...
    Days when peoples of my age began to wonder while learning 'bout humankind history, not only Vietnam...
    And I'll sure view that docu once I'm done with another different one elsewhere.

    Anyhow, since you appear that you may be a Vietnamese, let me please take for granted that you know the "Details" about the emancipation of the Vietnamese nation?
    It goes back to the end of WWI, as you know for sure?

    In Paris when Ho Chi Mihn was pleading for an independant AND democratic Vietnam with what he though to be "The democracy" star USA. It is now known at large that Ho Chi Minh had this fantasy that the USA was some sort of democracy batman.
    Well, it wasn't sso, never been neighter and might never be.
    The French had sort of a little debt toward the USA...

    So, what's Ho Chi Mihn to do?
    He turned toward the only other option the French & the USA left him.

    Whatever opinion you may have on these facts are of a secondary matter to me. I will always respect and admire peoples who stand up and make humankind better.

    There ain't no VietCongIsDevil in Vietnam but there are more than a few in the USA. And their filthy behavior abroad, all over the world is fully documented.
    The americans gotten what they deserved in Vietnam.

    Pierre.

  • lakhotason

    No Pierre. The American government got what it deserved. The Americans, that is, the people, put an end to the war. What do you think all that rioting in the streets was about in the '60's?

  • Guest

    @lakhotason,

    Oh Yes. This time your completly right.
    I should not have made that comment, I admit.
    I owe you one on that one.
    It's just that sometimes, as we view some archive docs, we just can't hold back...

    I'll watch that docu later on.

    Pierre.

  • Guest

    Where's my original comment to Trang Swan?
    I dom't see it anymore.

    Hum... I wonder...
    Weird... I'll come back to see if it was deleted by some moderator using "Murphy's Law".

    Pierre.

  • Guest

    @Trang Swan,

    I don't agree much with your comment. Not at all.
    Oh! I am not from South East Asia, not even an Asian.

    Vietnam war always interested me, a lot...
    Days when peoples of my age began to wonder while learning 'bout humankind history, not only Vietnam...
    And I'll sure view that docu once I'm done with another different one elsewhere.

    Anyhow, since you appear that you may be a Vietnamese, let me please take for granted that you know the "Details" about the emancipation of the Vietnamese nation?
    It goes back to the end of WWI, as you know for sure?

    In Paris when Ho Chi Mihn was pleading for an independant AND democratic Vietnam with what he though to be "The democracy" star USA. It is now known at large that Ho Chi Minh had this fantasy that the USA was some sort of democracy batman.
    Well, it wasn't sso, never been neighter and might never be.
    The French had sort of a little debt toward the USA...

    So, what's Ho Chi Mihn to do?
    He turned toward the only other option the French & the USA left him.

    Whatever opinion you may have on these facts are of a secondary matter to me. I will always respect and admire peoples who stand up and make humankind better.

    There ain't no VietCongIsDevil in Vietnam but there are more than a few in the USA. And their filthy behavior abroad, all over the world is fully documented.
    Censored: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.

    Pierre.

  • lakhotason

    It does go all the way back to WWI Pierre. Trang Swan knows an obscure footnote to history. Ho Chi Minh approached Woodrow Wilson in Paris after WWI to ask the US to use its influence to get France to de-colonize Vietnam. Wilson, the racist he was, refused to discuss anything with a Vietnamese man.

    Note: There is a doc here that says it was Roosevelt he approached during WWII. That is not correct.

    Edit: Ho did petition Truman several times but Truman never responded.

  • Guest

    @lakhotason,

    Didn't know that. Going back to WWI.
    Cause look at the age of Ho Chi Minh when he get out of the cars in Paris as he tried to negociate in the early 50's...
    Still, pretty young...
    Hey! Between 1918 & 1945-50, there's a whole generation y'a know...

    Oh! By the way, since you're there, I'm done with my other docu.
    Which push me to know better 'bout the somewhat "Revolution" in England that triggered the creation of parliement run government in England. Say, when the Monarchy lost its executive power.
    Never heard much about that, just as if never occured.

    I've been too sunk too long in pure & applied techno's.
    I know the most intense parts of history but not that one at all.

    If you ever hear 'about a docu specialised in that toplc...
    I had a swift look on TDF list and don't see in the titles.

    Anyhow, gotta watch this Tunnels one even though I seen one before.
    In Spanish though.

    I'll check Ho Chi Minh age in do time.

    Pierre.

  • Guest

    It give a lot to think. One of the best teaching to the whole world.
    I didn't mind the subscripts, stopping the movie for better reading.
    At one time in western civilization, there were the NAZI harassing the jews. I guess that things change, simply.
    Let's just hope that the Vietnameses will not morphs into beasts against any other nation through what they were taught, as the jews did.

    What's worst than the German camps?
    At least, when one is put to death, the torment gets to an end?

    Seeing this, even if I don't have a single idea where "Trang Swan" may be located, it becomes obvious that he's from the puppets Diaspora who got corrupted by the americans in Vietnam.

    As mentioned down below, why did the american turned down Ho Chi Minh request in Paris as he still was a somewhat democrat?
    Not "Their" abusive democracy they had in mind?
    Once such a decision is taken, it remains so for more than a while.
    Same for the remembrance of the war crimes committed over there.
    It is within the file. part of history, not to forget.

    People'd say: Oh! Not all of them?.........?
    I say not enough of them to make the necessary difference.
    Stop excusing oneself and solve your problem once & for all.

    Today...? Vietnam is somewhat an open country as far as I know?
    Telling like it is, I transferred our sourcing of Rosin raw material from Wesvaco USA to Vietnam and I know. I lurk around to see if there are social abuses over there, flagrant injustice cases... None of value.
    And you know what? How many countries felt under the political invasion of the Vietnam emancipation? None.
    Vietnam didn't not promote hard communism as propaganda warned once warn us.

    To me, if a student didn't understood the "Routine" after trying to understand it for some ~ 45 years, it just ought to be because he is totally unfit or else mentally deficient and unable to figure out that the problem is himself.

    Pierre.

  • Guest

    Just a test...

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_M6F3RJVEWJ24QKMCHFNVK7ADVE Winston Smith

    "why did the american turn down Ho Chi Minh's request in Paris as he still was a somewhat democrat?"

    Because war was the goal all along. He was too democratic for us apparently.
    That could very well be why Kennedy was killed, -at least according to Dale Peter Scott. Makes sense to me when you consider we gave the Vietnamese 3.3bn usd within a few weeks literally, of war's end! who would do that if you really believed they could harm you?
    And at the current wars..same thing: 10 years. But this time look how the US media just cheered along, 'embedded' -what are supposed to be objective journalists. Instead the thing is a Hollywood production. All pretexts are removed.

    I try not to make it an issue of nationalism and just realize that some men are selfish and even evil. It is morally indefensible that some live in mansions while so many others dont even have clean municipal water supplies and electricity. We can have a high standard of living for everyone. we need to get rid of money altogether I think and notions of 'profit' and ownership of resources..and create sustainable societies where education housing and medical are free and of a high quality for everyone. But we have to fight for this vision. Some do not believe it is possible...(I guess bc I grew up watching Star Trek, I do.

  • lakhotason

    Ho Chi Minh 1890-1969

  • lakhotason

    Wilson did not turn down Ho's request in Paris. Wilson refused to hear his request because Wilson was a flaming racist. He considered talking to a Vietnamese beneath a white man.

  • Guest

    @Winston Smith,

    Oh Winston? Maybe we forgot to mention that the French corporate "Michelin" was pushing a little hard also...
    In those years (Quite a while back) rubber was kind of a necessity for the growing car industry.

    As it gotten worst in S-East Asia, they developped a lot in South America. Today, S-America produce a lot natural rubber than South East Asian, I think... Same for the "Rosin" once a treasure in China. (Lead by "Hercule". But they dumpted it.

    Anyhow, out modern tyres have a greater % of synthetic rubber that natural. Because natural is in now days sort of an expensive additive and a main "Binder".
    Technology could go back to mother nature but the there would be a need for enslavement...

    Much easier to simply make deals with the Saudies.
    Ask Herbert Walker 'bout that, he sure knowns.

    Pierre.

  • Rocky Racoon

    B.S all the US did was clean up work the Soviet Union brought Hitler down not the USA. And the money you made for reconstruction is what kept your economy growing for 30 years. In fact America stayed out of the war that started in 1939 until 1942 so manufacturer's could play ball with both sides. IN the end the financial establishment was to lose more with a British loss...than a German win and got involved only after Japan attacked Pearl Harbour. So Tell us again how America saved the world from Hitler? NOT!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ben-Sanders/1541456020 Ben Sanders

    Your comment is completly ignorant. You need to study World War 2 again, clearly. I'll help you get started, ignorant Euro, first read about the invasion of Normandy, and the Battle of the Bulge. If you're not smart enough to realize the importance of these battles, and who played the major roles there, then you should probably stop spouting crap anti-american propoganda that you've been force-fed through your controlled media.

  • urban deadite

    Yeah Normandy Invasion 2 beaches American 3 beaches British and Canadian, Largest concentration of Armour and troops in any battle in Normandy was around Caen thats right fighting British and Canadian Forces. Closing the Falaise gap ended the Normandy campaign really and that was not done just by American forces but ALL participants. Oh and who was one of the Top Commanders who helped win what you call the Battle of the Bulge? a clue he was not American and what about the British forces that helped out in that battle? it was mostly Americans but not all i know my Grandad was a Tank driver and fought in it and he is British.
    Fact is the Soviets did more than the Western Allies combined but that is not to say the Western Allies did not do a lot and all these battles you mention happened 5 years AFTER the War had started and the Germans were on the run in all but the Western European Theater.
    I can not understand how people can be so disrespectful to all those who died be they British Army or French or Polish or American or Indian or Soviet or any other of the dozens of people who fought and bled.

  • coryn

    At 17 yrs of age, right out of high school in 1956 I joined the USAF hoping to eventually become a fighter pilot. But before this happened I took tests for the USAFAcademy and passed, becoming a cadet instead, which carried with it training in navigation, and a likely future in a bomber, not a fighter aircraft. It was before Vietnam, but upon graduation I would be required to do whatever the USAF wanted of me, and sabre rattling was heard more and more among the high AF brass. I quit the academy that year since I had lived through WWII and really didn't want to go to war. Flying, being a pilot was one thing, but dropping bombs on civilians was not my thing, sorry, I was beginning to learn of the other side of the story. In fact, I couldn't listen to LBJ, nor Richard Nixon after him. I learned that the 'Domino Theory' was nonsense, that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was a lie, that the 'electronic wall' was a failure, and that we were supporting an unpopular dictator. Eventually, as the war really got rolling I realized that power politics took precedence over all the thousands of peasants whom we were dropping bombs and napalm and chemicals on daily. That did it, I said e'nuff.

    But we're still at it, as Senator McCain reminds us every day. The senator still manages to put fear in our citizens, as he tries to rally them to hate this group of people or that. Civilian casualties apparently mean nothing to professional soldiers, so perhaps we should send McCain back into battle, and let him risk his own life to remake the world in his image.
    charley