Symbolism in Logos

2011, Conspiracy  -   119 Comments
Ratings: 6.25/10 from 77 users.

Symbolism in LogosDuring the 20th century, urban environments got taken over by corporate logos. Studies have reported that an average person is exposed to about a hundreds of logos a day.

Few people however ponder on the symbolic meaning of these marketing tools and their occult origins.

Think about where you encounter logos on an average day: they are on household items, on cars, on clothes, in tv ads, on billboards, on insignia, and all over sporting events.

Logos are one of the results of extensive studies (funded by the Rockefeller's "Chicago School") in cognitive sciences, psychology and biology.

Those studies constitute the core of "marketing", a heavily funded field which keeps its findings totally secret from the general public. Why are the findings secret?

The show begins with discussing the symbolism of two major corporations, Starbucks and Apple. What is really being said in logos?

This documentary was filmed in Bath and Bristol, England featuring special guests such as Michael Tsarion, Neil Hague, Ralph Ellis, Leo Rutherford, Neil Kramer, Dan Tatman and Peter Taylor. The crew also interviews a priest, university students, teachers and of course a couple random pub interviews.

119 Comments / User Reviews

  1. dewflirt

    Kind of entertaining and sometimes interesting but really all I can think about now are vagina hats ;)

  2. leonardobdas

    wow. ahahaha. amazing! judgmental. dumb. sincerely sad documentary. essentially a stealth pro christianity argument, seeking correlation to determine causation in pretty much all of modern culture, demonizing ancient cultures and niche esoteric thinking in favor of their own. oh my.

    honestly: people can't be scientists and are so jealous they believe in this s***.

    Brands are simple: the bottom line is what matters, and companies just try to stand out against a crowded market. meaning is elaborated overtime.

  3. Timothy

    interesting in the beginning but then halfway through it's just a group of people talking about subconscious vaginas, mysticism and mind rape at a pub or a coffee shop.

  4. Frédéric Trudeau

    Anyone with a minimum of rational thinking would dismiss most, if not all, that is depicted in this weak, sad and laughable documentary.

  5. oQ

    How about nipple tuques?

  6. slpsa

    I want a nipple tuque......

  7. oQ

    they come in pair.

  8. dewflirt

    Ah, the less is more style of dressing, I like it ;)
    Edit, what about todger socks?

  9. Fabien L'Amour

    Weak documentary. The part about the Apple logo is quite ridiculous.

  10. Harry Nutzack

    wow, where to start on this one?? i guess a good place would be the fact i clicked the link because my mind saw "symbolism in legos" and i was hoping for little plastic brick sculptures. i think the folks who produced this effort dont have much of a clue. starbucks mermaid is fairly obviously chosen for its relatively unique image, at least as far as corporate logos go. it also evokes the nautical, which is a huge part of seattle history. the name is the first mate from "moby dick" afterall. as they pointed out themselves, the apple corp first associated their product with newton, and continued the subtle association with the spectrum apple logo. the ad copy showing a price of "$666.66" may seem sinister to those of such a mindset, but i saw "2/3 of a thousand bucks", as even the competing kit computers of the time were a grand. the sun actually evokes "reliability, dependability" (and the "shell" logo is a clamshell, not a rising sun). once we hit the "gramaphone bar" (they were very careful to subtly include THAT logo) it degenerated from hokey to ridiculous. vaginal hats and flowing gowns?? basically, if you want to give up an hour of your life for listening to unconvincing new age/ pop-psych supposition, watch this doc. the mercedes "gunsight/propeller" logo has that inverted "y" to symbolize the 3 areas their motors found popularity, land, sea, and air. those "piscean arches" in the cathedral are called "vaulting", and are more about support of heavy loads by a column, than some vaginal/ zodiacal symbology. i did take note of their avoidance of mentioning the exact same shape is used for minarets in mosques (fear of fatwah?). all in all, lots of supposition and conjecture from folks id expect to see in a drum circle at stonehenge, but no meat at all. some cool skateboard decks in that one coffee shop though

  11. Paul Flynn

    The amount of Idiocy is staggering. To make the leap of past information being, somehow, transfered to someone today is beyond all reason. I wouldn't put it past a corp to transfer meaning in a logo, but to attach anything older than 20 years is a waste of time. How an average person today is supposed to "Get" some sort of evil message when your average person barely knows history from 1945 is a leap of pure fantasy.
    To prove my point, read some of the comments on youtube. This doc, if you can call it that, is nothing more than a group of people trying to confirm their own cleverness. Problem is they are not clever. They undoubtedly have no idea how ignorant they are.

  12. UXLF


  13. Hawkeyes

    This is wonderful. You can't go wrong with learning things from Michael Tsarion. He is the best researcher, teacher, writer, and speaker there is. The other guys are pretty good as well.

  14. Mengo Bla

    Thanks man, I feel better now that I read what you said, ...I just had a peek in the comments section in YouTube (quote: OMG this video needs 6 billion views) and was just going to write a huge rage oration on the damn stupidity of this pretentious third-rate infomercial (about apple) and its annoying overly-mysterious-about-shit-we-have-no-but-the-faintest-idea tone. but now i'm calm again

  15. Mengo Bla

    exactly ...! wish there came a good documentary once in a while.

  16. Achems_Razor

    Michael Tsarion?

    Only if you believe in new age mumbo-jumbo!

  17. Hawkeyes

    You clearly do not know what you are talking about. You've probably never read all of his books or listened to all of his work as I have. Just because you have your mind in a closed casket, doesn't mean others do. I certainly do not believe in the fairy-tales that our religious institutions have dreamed up to control people's minds from birth.

    Quote: "The teacher who is indeed wise does not bid you to enter the house of his wisdom but rather leads you to the threshold of your mind."
    Khalil Gibran

  18. Geoffrey Grekin

    Interesting, overall not a bad documentary

    Alot ofthe comments posted suggest a sad, depressing and weak documentary.
    But i beg to differ
    For one there is no central thesis, there is a bunch of random ideas and speculation.
    This ranges from theories of powerful shamans controlling the minds of consciousness outside the individual, to merely a bunch of corporate elite in the know giving each-other the 'wink-wink, nudge nudge'.
    I thought this documentary strongest feature was their versatility to portray many ideas without forcing us in any one direction.

    Furthermore, if you skim away much of the fat, and wild theories there is a common motif.
    That is that Corporate Logo's, (or many other logo) have a common symbolism that goes beyond mere coincidence. I personally feel they are used to subconsciousness connect to emotional feelings associated with a brand that are embedded within our lower mind.

    For example, most people will associate;

    Sun = happiness
    Eye = Unease (being watched)
    intertwined Circles = Unions (connection Sex)
    Piscis = Life (birth & Sex) [female]
    Column = forceful strength virility [male]
    Pyramid = Power and stability
    Arches = security

    Because these elements interact with humans in a very real way often without words and are deeply connected within our evolutionary process making it is easy to bring them to the surface.
    For example, We experience these emotions when we feel the rays of the sun (renewal), or feel we are being watch (predatory instinct), or experience sexual desire (copulation).
    Therefor symbols can subconsciously associate with these baser instincts and emotions of humans. Corporations and institutions merely recognize this power and ingeniously utilize symbol in order to manipulate the baser emotional attitude of their clientele by embed desired emotional reactions towards a brand or company, etc..

    And it works, there is defiantly power in this.

  19. Jack1952

    Starbucks is not a very big deal in Canada. If you want a coffee you go to "Tim Horton". They're everywhere. It was founded by Tim Horton who was a professional hockey player and a personal hero when I was a boy. Their logo is a signature of Tim Horton over what appears to be a plastic coffee cup lid. There's not a person in Canada that doesn't recognize this logo. I wonder how the makers of this doc would use their convoluted logic to connect this coffee chain through this seemingly harmless logo to the mysterious and sinister elite. I tried and got as far as the hockey stick being some kind of phallic symbol. Unfortunately, many younger Canadians never heard of Tim Horton the hockey player so the hockey stick idea may not work on them. I'm not as good at it as they are, I guess.

    Besides, as much as I idolized Tim Horton when I was ten years old, I can't stand the coffee. So much for using an appealing logo.

  20. Jack1952

    Tsarion believes that aliens intervened in the development of man millions of years ago. He also mentions a planet called Tiamet that existed between Earth and Mars that was mistakenly destroyed by aliens. Yeah. Tsarion is a man I would admire, quote and defend (lol). That an adult would actually believe this stuff is incredible. You are incredible.

  21. oQ

    That's if you don't want a good coffee. lol

  22. bob

    I couldn't stand to watch another min of this stupid film... The fleeting bits of real information were pleasing, but then these people have to push the issue and create their own desired meaning behind the symbols to fit every conspiracy out there. How is it so hard to believe that adam and eve weren't an influence, and why MUST a mermaid mean that starbucks is trying to manipulate you. Its all masons and illumaniti!! Hell im a disinfo agent for saying otherwise right!?! omg i'm illumaniti agent subconsciously affected by everything around me! I will agree the fascist symbol used within u.s.a govt buildings is odd though. As for tsarion... he goes with that ancient aliens guy on the "history" channel.... *faceplam*

  23. Hawkeyes

    Are you kidding me? You're getting your information from that nutcase Chris White? He has absolutely nothing to say but what he makes up in his tiny, religious, brain-washed, fantasy mind. That guy just wanted to use someone to make a big name for himself on his little site and YouTube. I can't type Michael's books up on here for you. You'll have to go to Amazon and at least get them on Kindle to read. You should read his 'Irish Origins of Civilization' and watch the videos on that for a start. There are things there like New Grange that are older than the pyramids. The study it took to put those books together must have been immense.

    As far as him being a Luciferian, that is laughable, but I wouldn't care if he was an Alien himself with Frodo feet. It wouldn't change all of the wonderful things he has written, said or done. He is a very intelligent, wise, well-read man.

    If you think that humans are alone in this Universe (or on this earth for that matter) you are mistaken.

  24. Geoffrey Grekin

    Tragic Ironic story about Tim Horton's
    He used to be afraid to fly, so he would drive to his season games by car, until he got that accident and died.

    The logo Tim Horton's has become synonymous with Canada, Hockey etc, its actually become a patriotic symbol. you know Stephen Harper cutting the cord to a new Tim's and drink a cup of java, The Tim's in Khandhar to motivate the troops, The Tim's that prides itself on being so Canadian...
    You know the same one owned by a US company.

  25. Geoffrey Grekin


    You don't need to buy what those conspiracy guys are saying, as i've said before the whole documentary doesn't advocate what these individuals are espousing, merely giving many different views the proverbial 'soap-box' to voice their wild opinions
    For example, with Apple they explain the official account how it had nothing to do with the story of 'Adam and even" and the forbidden fruit. They merely suggest that the story 'may' have been subconsciously influenced by the story.
    But they don't say it is.

    Finally, if you browse to the later part of the documentary, specifically 57 min in, a completely different view on logo's that takes a completely different approach to some of the earlier views on the matter without ridicule or bias.

    Bothers me how some of you see a part that you don't agree with or is completely counter-intuitive to your train of thought that you judge the whole documentary as crap because you don't agree with one of the many views espoused.

  26. Jack1952

    You did it! You didn't use the logo but you managed to tie Tim Hortons to the industrial military complex. Well done!

    Or should that read the military industrial complex? Don't matter. You did good.

  27. Achems_Razor

    The only thing going for Tsarion is that he is against religion. But by all of the insane meanderings that I have listened to from him, he might as well start his own.

    The rest is comic book scenarios, not one iota of any type of empirical evidence to all the unproven suppositions coming from his mouth, makes me wonder how mature? people could believe all that gunk.

    By the way, you made another claim that we are not alone, I take it that means Aliens? When you make claims, the burden of proof is on you to prove such claims!

  28. Jack1952

    You call Chris White a nutcase because he's religious and then you cite Michael Cremo. The man's a Hindu Creationist. Hinduism is a religion. Did you not know that? The man is trying to control your mind through religion. And your falling for it.

  29. Geoffrey Grekin

    A symbol isn't just a logo, you do realize this don't you?

  30. tara68

    This film is utterly ridiculous.

  31. Hawkeyes

    Putting Chris White (and his very uneducated self) on the same platform as Michael Cremo is not comparable at all. He does not talk about his religion in 'Forbidden Archaeology'. Chris White uses the fairy-tale of the bible to make his points. I think he is a nutcase for much more than just being religious. I don't really care what religion people are as long as they aren't shoving it down other people's throats. Cremo could believe a puple bunny-rabbit was god but it doesn't take away from all of his years of authentic research and education. Chris White has none of that and only thinks his religion and his alone is right and he justifies everything with it, whether it makes sense or not. You tell me what page Michael Cremo preached his religion in that book and I'll get it off my shelf and look it up to see if I missed it. I highly doubt you've read it though.

  32. Hawkeyes

    It's not my fault if you don't want to put in the time to study all of his work along with others'. I'm obviously not going to change your mind so we'll have to agree to disagree. You should at least try his Astrotheology books. I think you would like them at least.

    No, we are not alone. There is no way on my personal experiences to show you on Top Documentary Films and they are all I personally know to be true, no matter what any book, lecture, or researcher has to say. But just like you tell me to prove it, I would have to ask you to prove that they DON'T exist. You can't do that.

  33. Russell Smith

    what a load! The APPLE name and stuff came to be because they made the first one using an old apple crate. Jobs and Wozmiac told us face to face at a college class.

  34. T

    the burden of proof is on you. you are making the claim that you must provide evidence for.the evidence must be replicated, testable, and peer reviewed. not believing is the default position.if i say i personally know that unicorns are real, its not your job to prove they dont exist. its my job to prove the claim im making. you dont prove negatives

  35. Hawkeyes

    Whatever. Who died and made you boss? No one is going to kow-tow to you just because you demand it. Things don't work that way. If you said unicorns existed, who am I to say they don't? I don't have your life or have seen or known what you know. Neither do you have mine or anyone else's. Think what you want to think.

  36. a_no_n

    Burden of proof doesn't work like that...It's up to the person making the claim to prove that they are correct!

    You can't ask someone to prove a negative (which is impossible) and then submit the fact that that person can't do the impossible as proof for whatever theory you have...when people do that it's generally a good indicator that they're full of sh*t

  37. Hawkeyes

    Thankfully, I'm not the kind of person who cares what others think of me, lest of all someone on a message board who can't even post with cursing.

  38. Jack1952

    "Things don't work that way". Yes they do. Using your method of proof, any claim, no matter how ridiculous, must be the truth. Science works on the rules of evidence. If you state that something happened, you back it up with the evidence to prove it. I do not, out of the blue, make the statement that there are no blue spotted chimpanzees living in Greenland . Why would I? I would only say this in response to someone who makes such a statement and then I would ask how does he know this. If he replies that I can't prove it isn't true so it must be so, I know I'm not dealing with a reasonable person.

    As for Michael Cremo, his entire version of history is related to validate his religious beliefs. He doesn't say so. His theories are the direct result of his Hindu philosophy. He is just a little more subtle than Chris White.

  39. Hawkeyes

    So what you are saying is that everything that comes out of India must be false? Things go farther in their texts than religious philosophy. If you are saying that, it is very obtuse of you. I like Cremo's book, and was never tempted to become a Hindu by reading it. There are things in there that are just more pieces of a gigantic puzzle, which is why I read, watch, and listen to everything. You don't like it (but haven't even looked at it I wager). End of story. You don't have to like anything or anyone. Not Tsarion, Cremo, or anyone who strives to learn or teach about different things. I don't like Chris White and that is my choice. You have your choices and reasons, I have mine.

    You go right on ahead thinking lousy humans are the best there are in the whole Universe. That nothing else is out there who might be more advanced (and looking at humans that's not saying much.) You believe what you want to believe. There are all kinds of people who know we aren't the only ones. I don't have to prove anything. This is my life to deal with, not yours or any other naysayer. It's not up to me to make believers out of those who never will no matter what they are shown or hear. These topics and researchers are not for everyone, but those that have the mind to seek shall find. The information is out there for them. May you live in interesting times.

  40. a_no_n

    Indeed...(I presume you mean post with'out' cursing)I take it by that diversion you're not going to acknowledge that you've misunderstood the way burden of proof works, or do anything to correct that misconception?
    I do beg your pardon, I didn't realise my language would offend so deeply, I thought I was talking to a mature adult, my mistake.

  41. Hawkeyes

    This isn't a court of law where we need "the burden of proof". This is a documentary site. You are sitting in your house or at your desk on the computer, not in a courtroom. You should really get out more. Oh, nothing offends me. I've seen and heard it all, but I have found that people resort to cursing when they have no basis for their argument. You have your opinions and beliefs, I have mine. There is nothing wrong with that. That's what America is supposed to be, a free country where we can choose who we watch and listen to without having to answer to anyone. Maybe to some people that is not what it should be, but to the majority of us out here it is. May you live in interesting times.

  42. a_no_n

    So you're going to keep demanding proof from everyone else, and you're going to use that rather pathetic excuse to avoid giving proof of your own claims when challenged...Fair enough, that's all i wanted to know!
    Personally i didn't think the cursing was uncalled far as i can see sh1t is quite apt as a description for what you're saying. But then again i'm British, and we have a slightly less hysterical outlook on these things.

  43. Hawkeyes

    Ah, you're British. That explains a lot. A little stuffy over there, isn't it? You shouldn't look down so much on other countries as yours gets taken over by so many non-British. You'll be just like us and you'll have to adapt and be more accepting of others' "outlooks". I didn't demand proof for anything, not unicorns nor blue spotted chimps, so what are you yammering on about? You can can sit all day and belittle me, but like I said, I don't care what people think of me and I don't have to answer to anyone or anything. May you live in interesting times.

  44. Imightberiding

    So add agencies are part of some great sinister conspiracy now? Hire someone to develop a corporate logo for your company & you better make sure they aren't intent on swallowing your mind/soul (if you have one) first! My goodness people, is there nothing more important than spending countless hours & money making a self satisfied film/doc about non existent issues? I have hired graphic artists & add agencies to design logos for business concerns of mine & always the first thing that I ask: "Is my new logo based on a conspiracy of ancient ideals & symbols that will brainwash the masses that I conduct business with?" Really?..

    Someone's point of view on reality so I guess that makes this valid some how. With that said; thank you TDFilms for another tidbit of entertainment & some thing to fill my night with.

    Cheers all & beware the nefarious logos!

  45. Imightberiding

    @Vlatko &TDFilms
    I just reread my previous comment & although I was posting in a sarcastic frame of mind, I was sincere as to my thanks for another film to watch. I am afraid my thanks came across as sarcastic as well.

    That was furthest from my intention. I very much enjoy this site & eagerly anticipate your new offerings, so I offer my thanks sincerely. I did not want the closing of my earlier comment to be confused as entirely tongue in cheek like the rest of my opinion about logos etal.

  46. Achems_Razor

    From me personally, don't worry about it!
    No harm, no foul! lol

  47. a_no_n

    aah, I see your not bothering to hide your foaming Xenophobia anymore...I always much prefer it when people wear their true colours on their sleeves.
    Is it really wise for an American of all people to be throwing the first stone about non indigenous people taking land they have no right to?

    back on topic though, the first post I commented on was because you were trying to shift the burden of proof onto someone who was asking you to prove whatever you'd claimed in the first place...the fact that you conveniently fail to recall that isn't my problem or my failing...neither is the way you're trying to backpedal now!

  48. Vlatko


    Whether it is a court room, an online forum, a street, your home, you name it, when you say blue unicorns exist, there will always be someone who will demand proof for your claims. The more ridiculous the claim the more proof will be demanded.

    If you don't want people to ask you for proof, why bother expressing your thoughts in the first place. Sure, you may say whatever you want, but you should be also prepared to backup your claims.

    I suppose you're mature person, and you should well know that shouting "blue unicorns exist" and than putting your ear-plugs on, screaming la-la-la, while people are asking you questions, is very childish behaviour at least.

  49. Hawkeyes

    Obviously you don't know the truth. The Florida Bog (Windover Bog) Mummies are the oldest mummies and bones ever found in America, and they are European. They are older than any Indian remains. Also watch the documentary on the Solutreans. Those are the oldest spearheads ever found and where they come from and the way they are made are linked to France. You can also see this trend in China with the Tarim Basin mummies. They are older than any Chinese remains and are tall, blonde, and red-headed. The Indians themselves tell of a race of red-haired people that they killed off when they came. When Europeans came back the government did do horrible things to them, but they were never here first. Humans have been slaughtering and overtaking other humans since the dawn of time. The Indians did it to each other before Europeans came back.

    Again, I don't have to prove anything to some stranger on a comment board and I can say what I want to about the subject or not. I stand by what I say and that's that. I don't have to do anything for anyone about it and you can deal with it, so get off your high horse about it and may you live in VERY interesting times.

  50. Hawkeyes

    I'm not the one who said blue unicorns or any unicorns existed. Someone else brought that up as a comparison and I told them if THEY said unicorns existed, then who am I to say they don't? You can insult me all you wish, but I gave many resources throughout these posts to back up what I said and that should plenty enough to start with. People must actually do the research on their own, because it wouldn't matter what some stranger on a board said anyway when it came right down to it.

  51. Hawkeyes

    Well then, read your comics. They are most likely better suited for you. I think all of you have been waiting to argue with anyone on these documentaries. I've been watching them on here for quite some time, and hardly no one ever says anything. You are bored. You don't have to like what I said, believe it, research things on your own, read books, watch anything, listen to anything, or do anything. No one is making you, just like no one makes me do any of the above. You and others seem hostile to anything out of the norm. I don't have the time for such games. May you live in interesting times.

  52. Vlatko


    BTW, "blue unicorns" was just a metaphor, and the following quote is one argument more that you're probably not an adult: ...I can say what I want to about the subject or not. I stand by what I say and that's that. I don't have to do anything for anyone about it and you can deal with it.. Just saying.

  53. Achems_Razor

    Actually Vlatko took the words out of my mouth, I also do not think you are an adult, but just some kid, probably another 13 year old, "face palm"!

  54. Hawkeyes

    Think what you want to think. If you saw American school systems these days you would know that couldn't be true. All the kids today care about is X-box and things like that, not Archaeology, Symbology, Genetics, DNA, Science, Metaphysics, Space, Politics, and Ancient History among other things. None of you have actually been the poster people of maturity from some of the things you have said on here. I'm sure I'm older than you and Vlatko, but I wouldn't know.

  55. Patrick Jones

    Wow these hippies suck!

  56. a_no_n

    again failing utterly to address the initial point, choosing to gish gallop your way out of it instead (google it).

    yes i'm starting to get the way you don't explain yourself to anyone, but you'll expect an explaination if someone doesn't agree with what you've said!
    (I think you may have confused yourself a bit on the whole bog mummy front.)

  57. Achems_Razor

    Personally I do not think you know even as much as the Borneo walking stick on the subjects that you have mentioned. No use trying to fool us child!

  58. Achems_Razor

    Did you know, when you say..."May you live in interesting times."

    That, that is in fact an ancient Chinese curse!
    Got that straight from Leonard Nimoy. Spock.

  59. Harry Nutzack

    when you debate with the obviously irrational, the best you can hope for is a headache and irritated digestion. food for thought

  60. Roger Gordon

    OK so again Mr. Michael Tsarion master of the Half truths and he is PEDOPHILE so beware of this mind twisters.

    About apple it is clear that they meant Newton as we live in Newtonian society. Starbucks is just a Siren so what! Yes they are evil but what else it is just about marine.

    Symbols do influence the people but not as much as you think.

    As someone mention it here before the first half is fun to watch and the rest is just bla bla bla. I can make so many conclusions and hypothesis about any picture/logo as you want.

  61. dewflirt

    About that siren, what kind of message would that be to the thirsty and fatigued shopper anyway? let us seduce you with sweet hot drinks and then dash your brains out with our dry biscotti! Not very tempting. I always thought the apple logo was supposed to be a bite of The Big Apple. Maybe to literal ;)

  62. M28J18H17

    Yawn! I have wasted 64 minutes 23 seconds of my life which I will never get back. Do not make the same mistake. A totally absurd and in some respects bizarre attempt at connecting corporations with the occult/esoteric. This “documentary” is appropriate for the feeble minded. Those who can make extremely abstract connections between the mundane and the weird. And for those who have the imagination to see an all empowering agenda hidden behind a veil of capitalist corporation greed.

  63. Harry Nutzack

    the mermaid logo is meant to evoke images of the days of "wooden ships and iron men". that particular example was chosen because here in the states we have umpteen million registered trademarks with mermaids. on everything from tuna cans to disney toys. none of them, however have the bifurcated tail of the starbucks logo. that unique quality insured no lawsuits for "stealing our brand". oh, and for the record, mermaids are not sirens. both are mythological critters that seduce sailors, but they are not interchangeable. the coffee/biscotti seduction and dashing however, is a most brilliant simile. the apple referred to newton originally, (our brain in a box will supplement your squishy grey organic one, and thus make you the equal of this brilliant thinker) though i think the latter "bitten apple" was supposed to bring to mind the faulty idea of "biting the fruit of the tree of knowledge", the fault being it leaves off the "of good and evil" part, but, hey, it's marketing, it's not like historical accuracy (or literary for that matter) is of any real import in that line of work.

  64. Onnad


  65. Chris Baker

    one word about this doc, DUMB!

  66. Jack1952

    I never said anything coming out of India is false. I said Cremo is a Hindu and that Hinduism is a religion. You cannot discount White because he is a religious nutcase but applaud Cremo whose views on history are deeply influenced by his religion. If you can't see the logic in this you are either being deliberately obtuse or lack the intelligence to understand this simplest of concepts.

    I have seen the video "Hidden Archaeology and I find it lacking in evidence and deliberately ignores any scientific evidence that proves its claims to be false. The history of man has nothing to do with what you or I like. It has to do with facts that are substantiated that when viewed as a whole gives a comprehensive picture of our history. Liking this picture is irrelevant.

    I never said that humans are the best in the universe. That there might be other civilizations on other planets is quite possible and maybe even likely but thus far I have not seen any solid evidence that they have and are interacting with the human race. For the most part, those who say they don't have to prove anything because I wouldn't believe it anyway, usually don't have the proof on hand. What they have are speculations, questions and a fertile imagination. None of which are facts.

    The "seek and you shall find" axiom comes straight out of the Bible. Odd choice for a man with such an obvious dislike of the Bible.

  67. TheSatyaYuga

    Perhaps you'd like to elaborate. Why is it dumb?

  68. PaulGloor

    They are getting really fast at pulling stuff these days....

  69. Hesusa

    All this back and forth about logos without any understanding of logo design. Makers of this film have some interesting obsevations and some mental diarea but here are my two cents

    Good logo is

    1. instantly recognisable even when scaled to the size of a penny
    2. uses familiar shapes and/or relates to an idea/legend/symbol that prefereby has a positive association

    First rule is obligatory, second is optional but it makes sense as you get a head start on marketing making you easier to memorise.

    As for conspiracy look no further than advertising - it is not based on your needs but desires and fears manipulating you in to consumerism forever poisoning our planet with cr*p.

    For an in depth understanding I refer you to an excellent docu here

    A century of the self

    and a novel by Frederic Beigbeder called 99 francs

  70. Jack1952

    " it is not based on your needs but desires and fears manipulating you in to consumerism forever poisoning our planet with cr*p."

    A statement that is prompted by a deep rooted mistrust of all human endeavours and a misunderstanding of why there is such a thing as an economy.

    Humanity has always had to work to survive. The earliest hunter gatherer woke to spend his day in an unending search for food, water and shelter. It wasn't easy. Life was short and uncertain and most humans did not live past childhood. People started to make better weapons and tools to ensure survival and to make life easier. They didn't need them. They had survived thus far without them but it sure made life easier to have them. Our modern economy started from these humble beginnings. There would not be seven billion people alive today if it were not for the type of economy we have. You need to work to survive. It has always been that way. When you work you make a product. If you can't exchange this product for the things you need then you go hungry, thirsty or homeless.

    Try it. Stop working in our economy. Try a subsistence life style. You won't like it and it may even shorten your life.

  71. Hesusa

    I have a fairly good understanding of what enables our society to work. I agree with most of what you have said. Specialisation is key. Everybody else has to do their part so you can do yours. I am no exception.

    However that still does not change that majority of the population are good little consumers - which is good for certain individuals in the short run and is bad for all of us in the long run. I despise design obsolescence and marketing that produces unnecessary waste by manipulation. For a glimpse in to the problem watch Manufactured landscapes (on TDF). We could do without most of this and still maintain the same standard or actually improve it as we would put less strain on the environment. Live longer and healthier.

    One can still work and be successful in this economy by making products or providing a service with a far lighter footprint.

    Thread lightly on this planet Jack. It is my home too.

  72. GravyWagon

    what garbage

  73. Maddestmax

    While dissecting the bleeding obvious I discovered the heart isn't heart shaped, gutted.

  74. Maddestmax

    My previous comment was way too dismissive of a fairly interesting doc, it does point out that large organisations pilfer symbols; but what don't they do in order to maximise identity/profit.
    Sadly they ignored the megasymbol of the west. The one that stood for the way, the light, the truth, "the" book. Long before mass literacy the church used the cross very persuasively. In fact so persuasive it held back the development of humanity for centuries.

  75. Mikey Jones

    The narrator's whistling "S" sounds are super distracting and annoying.

  76. Jeremy Hughes

    This website exists SOLELY to put people like this guy on the spot, to tear down their deciets, and to show the rest of the world how to spot and avoid fraudsters on the spot. Long live Vlatko, long live TDF, we are educating the ignorant daily : )

  77. guerkan hantal

    sorry, but this so called "docu" is a waste of time. there's no proof in what the makers claim. it's just their opinion and i don't agree at all.

  78. Emmanuel Dada

    Interesting doc and funny at times. These "sinister Logos" are made by people called graphic designers, I am one of them. They doc creators should have interviewed a few logo creators to hear what they think about all this, would have been far more enlightening and definitely more mundane (probably why they didn't). I definitely agree there is indeed symbolism we are exposed to with not all together positive motives but the situation is a far cry from what is depicted here.

    Seriously entertaining and funny from a graphic designer's perspective and overly misleading for anyone who knows nothing about the identity and branding world.

    Advertising is a completely different matter I will admit.

  79. fnbdnb fgn

    omg we're all gonna die! They've learned to use logo's to make us into mindless robots!! And she's obviously learned how to use sounds to seduce our unnatural desires... ahhh!!!

  80. CrayRail

    This doc moves from a faux analysis about a few logos to a bull***t session with a bunch of people who believe in magic. (ck?) This doc is not even trying to use intellectual tools for understanding symbolism: logic, reasoning, marxist anaylsis or even something called "semiotics" which is the "study of symbols." They don't even get it right when they talk about the work of Freud and Jung, which anyone who has written a term paper in a psychology class would have been able to do. This doc gets a D-

  81. nick

    Why are the marketing findings kept secret?

    Maybe because that if the public new the methods of complex marketing techniques that they would fall apart and stop working along with stop producing profits for the companies that have invested serious money to learn these secrets...

    And no they're not hidden from the general public but rather harder to find because, who in the public field could even care about complex marketing strategies.

    And why would you give these ingenious billion dollar marketing trade secrets free to the general public that would never even put the methods to good use... Instead of selling the findings to the multi-million dollar a year businesses that are willing to pay tons of money for the strategies

    And to show you a couple examples...

    Everyone knows that grocery stores spend hundreds of millions of dollars a year learning the what makes people buy the things they buy. And a lot of people know that these stores place certain items in certain places.

    This is one of the supposed "Secret" marketing strategies.

    Another big trade for these hidden marketing strategies come into play... Casino's which everyone knows that use marketing strategies in order to get you to drop as much money as possible.

    It's not that they're secret in any way which anybody with a marketing degree would agree on, it's just not popular subject matter.

  82. Shane Henrik Lamminparras

    BOM BOM BOM!!!

    Consumers didn't realize there was an evil mermaid on Starucks logo!


    The Apple workers dont know where the logo derived from!!!


  83. Colomboi714

    So what does the Dodge logo mean?

  84. Cassie Lewis

    is it possible that mermaids are just cool? or an apple with a bite out of it is just more memorable than a whole one?

  85. Dustin McFakename

    Sure, but that would beg the question "Why are mermaids just cool".

  86. onlaugh

    This documentary was really, really boring. The people who made this documentary called up Starbucks and Apple and asked questions about their respective logo. Wow! these doc makers are so daring.
    I remember sitting on a 7 hour flight to New York, and having to listen to a very boring Swedish man in the seat next to me. Unfortunately, the poor man thought that what he had to say was interesting. It most definitely wasn't. This documentary was on the same level.

  87. Aj Haggerty

    i have a starbucks mug i stole from their shop and tbh untill it came on the screen i would have had no idea it had some chick all i could have told you is a green circle with starbucks coffee printed in plain text

  88. Aj Haggerty

    also after i typed my comment whilst the video was paused at 2:52 i read your comment and decided to give it a miss because something was telling me it was going to be boring and i dont just mean your comment

  89. apples321

    Interesting idea, but the documentary itself could have been more interesting.

  90. Eamonn

    pub conversation is farcical. those guys put 2 + 2 together and got 666. utter rubbish

  91. VampieOreo

    This film is ridiculous it borders comedy. Unfortunately, it just misses it. I love how they say that these symbols are "sub"conscious (a word neither Freud or Jung used) and tied deeply to people without them even knowing it. But somehow, certain people know about it and use it against everyone else. Isn't it possible, that if what they say is true, and the logos really are collective "sub"conscious images, that regular people like graphic designers might use them because they feel equally tied to them like everyone else.

    "Well they could make up new logos" Sure, but why bother when they have an image that speaks to their soul. Or whatever pseudo-psychology they spew about auras and energy. The people supposedly creating this logos are just people, humans like the rest of us, not mass evil doers.

    Whether or not you believe in all the crap they're selling about hijacking consciousness or whatever is up to you. But don't try to pass it off as legitimate journalism or science.

    This documentary was just a handful of already biased people discussing a topic they obviously believed fervently in. It has no objective evidence, or even a real analysis of anything. The logos are shown briefly and together in clumps for only a few seconds so you hardly have time to see them all. The rest of it, is hippies in a bar talking about the evil establishment. In conclusion, this is NOT a documentary.

  92. Alvin R Lenford Sr.

    With so many billions of people who occupy this planet, why is it so difficult for one to believe that some of these notions, if not all can be true. These symbols in a sense are no different than the tatoos that people put on their bodies. If it's a swastika, it has an origin based on someones belief, and if it is plastered to my body, I must entertain that same belief. If it is a tattoo of the Cross, that symbol has origin and meaning, therefore it is something that I believe in and I wear proudly. I don't know the minds of those who stand behind any of the symbolism depicted in this documentary, and there are those who choose to believe in things at whim just because somebody said to them that something was true, then run the course of their lives believing a lie and finding out later in life what a fool they were when the truth hits them in the face. I think that those who uphold these symbols, whatever they may be, are intelligent men and (or) women and have investigated the meanings behind them, whether true or false. I would rather investigate than follow something that is not beneficial for me to believe in. There is no harm in doing so. With all that being said, I don't think that what is being iterated is all that far fetched.

  93. awful_truth

    While I do believe that it is true that people identify with certain symbols, (yin/yang, cross, etc) the idea that corporations incorporate symbols to help sell products is ludicrous. In my opinion, symbols are used soley for product recognition. If you are driving down the street, and you want a big mac, you will start scanning for the golden arch. Thus, the symbol does not sell the product, it only identifies a brand of a product that sold itself.
    What is true is that the origin and meaning of most symbols has been lost in translation over time. A swastika does not mean a nazi skinhead, or a fascist ideology, yet since it's use by the 3rd reich, no one dare use it now for fear of retribution, or having the wrong label attached. (misunderstanding) This not only diminishes the value of what a symbol was meant to represent, but exposes the ignorance of human simple mindedness!

  94. Tim Caffery

    I found this very insightful. And according to Jobs, the 'apple', remember its not an apple just a symbol, was derived from his time working at an apple orchard. Imply, youthful determination, work ethic, blah, blah, blah. I believe that's the story put forward in his autobiography. And as for the 666, I use 666 in passwords and such, as I know it is a sense of taboo to Westerns. In Hinduism & Buddhism 6 means perfect and complete, too. So, to me, 666 is a symbol created to divert humans from pursuing perfection in their 3 fold lives. Perhaps the makers of this, in their attempt to break through symbolism, ultimately just show, they are just as trapped as they supposed we are. But good luck.

  95. Tim Caffery

    Umm, Jung had 3 writings that had 'subconscious' in their titles. I just spent a couple hours listening to one in audiobook format. I am lead to believe you are an honest individual, sincerely concerned about understanding truth & courageously conveying it. On that note, if I may be so bold, I suggest you give it a try. It can only empower you further, & entrench you commitment deeper within yourself. Man & His Symbols: Approaching the Subconscious (1964) was the one I listened to, but if your sincerity is strong enough, I sure you can find each one yourself, & possibly take you into, maybe one. Good luck.

  96. Ramome

    I love a good conspiracy story. Inevitably we stop learning at some point during the investigation and become true believers or pessimistic skeptics . Darwinism come to mind in this instance. Those who believe hold an almost cult like fervency regardless of any new information which may come their way. Even with evidence from a science like quantum physics, they hold tightly to their belief and develop visceral hatred for dissenting views. And visa versa those who believe in an intelligent design.
    These young people seem bound to find correlations with what they already hypothesize. This documentary is a perfect example of why civilizations are so slow to move forward into a more cohesive social structure. We want to believe in something, so we set about constructing faux evidence to make it so. Throughout history we have had to secretly produce a renaissance in order to bring us back from the brink of societal extinction. Given our technological pace, I believe it is about time for another one.

  97. oQ

    I think your comment could be copied/pasted and used on just about any documentary. I myself would use it often.

  98. Ivy

    Overall, very good. BUT there are some things that are incorrect. The bible NEVER tells the "forbidden" fruit is an apple. It only tells is a fruit. People like to assume so much.

  99. 13-XIII

    to get a better understanding on this subject take a look at all the products in your home. take inventory of all the logos your attracted to.
    you might have a collections of all those mentioned above or of all the same.

  100. a_no_n

    "Those who believe have an almost cult like fervency"

    lol, i love it when people try making science out to be a shows how bad your grasp on the concept of both things is.

    Religion is Dogmatic, it requires blind faith without any incredulity.

    Wheras Science provides you with evidence and data in support for what it claims and doesn't care what you believe.

    I take it your idea of a scientific Renaissance involves religion retaking it's place of power over rational thinking?

  101. a_no_n

    Say it with me people...Pareidolia.

  102. a_no_n

    yeah in Britain if you want to talk sense with someone the pub is the last place you'd look.

  103. Ramome

    A true Renaissance requires us to realize that pulling the covers over our head will not keep the monster from getting us. To continue the age old fight between religion and science will not move us forward. Our infancy in science will not answer all the questions quite yet. Mystic beliefs are a window into our minds and hold treasures for learning.
    Don't be afraid. You will evolve a_no_n.

  104. a_no_n

    he says whilst communicating digitally on an electronically operated computer, across the internet.

    Prayer didn't give us all of this, science did.

    Mystic beliefs are the fairy tales we told one another when we didn't have the tools to see what was actually happening.

    Don't be can grow up Ramone.

  105. Ramome

    Hey.......if you want to see something greater than yourself at work in science ........look up the double slit experiment. It's a scientific experiment. a_no_n

  106. Ramome

    People have to stop this condescension of one another long enough to learn something a_no_n

  107. Ramome

    The founding fathers of Quantum Physics were humbled by the double slit experiment.

  108. over the edge

    you state "Our infancy in science will not answer all the questions quite yet" i agree, but what answers has religion provided us? i am not talking about answers shoe horned into religion after the fact. but actual answers that religion provided.

  109. over the edge

    Science understands the double slit experiment. Math has answered it. There is no mystery in the experiment. What the " founding fathers of Quantum Physics" were humcled by is irrelevant. Other that to allow others to stand on the shoulders of giants

    P,S it is sad you upvote your own comments

  110. Ramome

    I upvoted to get attention on the subject. I don't care what anybody thinks about it. And are you saying scientists have already figured out what consciousness is and where it comes from in that experiment? Because if your are, you are not even living in reality or you think you know something no one else does. A wave is collapsed by observation, where it does not collapse, without the conscious observation. Your own brain matter would be in a wave state if not for some conscious observation. Quantum Physics is not a bumper sticker. It does not matter what your philosophical opinion is. It can give you one, but it is not one. If you are a materialist, mechanist or what ever you want to tattoo on your intellect, that is fine. But don't try to tell me you have the ultimate answer here. Your last comment about my upvotes shows that sarcasm was your main intent. The real world, if you choose to explore it, is made from a diverse exploration of thought and concrete experimentation. Your rip their head off and excrement down their throat comment is for amateurs and trolls and shows your lack of study. Now write back to me like an adult and let's discuss this. Or not.......which I assume you will choose to make the other children here think you are cool.

  111. a_no_n

    which would be fine if you were talking about learning something that isn't BS

  112. a_no_n

    I love the way you upvote your own comments...

  113. Fabien L'Amour

    The double slit experiment only proves the quantum particle/wave duality. It shows that subatomic particles are neither classical particles or classical waves. And that's why they are studied by scientists to understand more.

    It's absolutely pointless to turn to religions to try to find an explanation as they don't do experiments to explain how the universe works. They assume they have the truth and that's it.

  114. Ramome

    You are right about not turning to religion. A study of the possibility of a higher intellect does not have to incorporate a religion. If I believe you are smarter than me, it should not necessarily be construed that religion is involved. You are just intellectually above my level. That's what I'm trying to get past here. Consciousness is an anomaly here and that seems to suggest something outside our understanding is occurring. Religion is a poor catalyst, but it does provide some interesting questions for science. Thanks for not devolving the conversation into name calling.

  115. Fabien L'Amour

    I think you attribute an effect to consciousness where there isn't one. The double slit experiment shows an effect of the measurement on the results. It only shows the limitation of human understanding, not what the quantas are intrinsically. Attributing the incomprehensible behavior to some ultimate power is deism.

  116. Ramome

    True to some degree...and this is where the line is always drawn for a mechanistic universe as opposed to any other. One could say I overreach here but the same could be said for the mechanistic view. That .. it is an established truth,... is still in the lab for results as well. Of course I realize the safety science has built around itself by not committing to an absolute until proven. Unless you count Climate change or evolution. :) Both of those subjects are interesting to me but let's not stray from this discussion. Thank you again for an adult exchange. I welcome your thoughts. Also, I believe in deism. I think it is the only avenue you could take given the chaotic nature of the universe. If there is a god at all. :)

  117. PH

    Sorry, I know the comment section says 'be cool' but this entire 'documentary' is nothing more than marginally informed, badly edited babbling.

  118. Peter Prevos

    This documentary is very one-sided. Why did they not consult any marketing textbooks or interview marketing scholars? In none of the literature of marketing and logo design is there any mention of the symbolism discussed here. Indeed corporations try to sell as much stuff as possible, but associating this with some conspiracy to use archaic symbolism is ludicrous.

  119. DustUp

    @Geoffrey Grekin has the clearest observation of the docu, thank you. As for those indoctrinated individuals who have been brainwashed into dismissing anything that is one-sided. Many things which you lavish praise upon as being a balanced viewpoint, isn't at all. It is a pretense to fool those who have such indoctrination. Often the propagandist brings up an opposing viewpoint then readily dismisses it with very limited or no information, to make it seem like the opposition has been covered and dispensed with legitimately, when it hasn't at all. When a commenter does so it can be for the same reason ...or because they don't have all day to cover and explain every last side and detail. Same for the person making a documentary.

    Maybe I missed it but was surprised not to see more on the "XX" logo. Such as in Exxon and all the others companies with a double XX in it. I once heard a bit about how certain logos or symbols indicate common ownership or origins and agreements.

    If the symbols mean nothing at all, then why do some movie stars brand themselves with certain similar tattoos showing allegiance to the triangle and eye? Why does Shaquille Oneill the former basketball star proudly display his huge free mason ring? Then get several commercials not so long after joining, when not heard from for quite some time, seems like years, before joining?

    Personally the biggest impact I find upon myself of corporate logos is to stay away from them as much as possible. To me their products are either over priced or crap to pay for all the advertising they do. Case in point would be one of the most famous sports shoe makers. Early on they had fairly good products. Many years ago I stopped buying them because they changed significantly. No longer put in true arch support, used a narrower foot form, cheapo glue that would give way over time, cheap thread, i.e. quality went down the tubes and price went up because kids wanted them, apparently due to all the slick marketing with athletic "heroes".

    Why the bite out of the Apple logo if strictly Newtonian or an Apple Crate beginning? Just because the owner or president of a company tells you something ...does that mean it is true ...or just partially true? Clearly there is no symbolic allegiance to certain other corporate groups. And the symbol wouldn't mean anything to a kid who never heard of the story of adam and eve. However, it is much more memorable than an apple with no bite out of it... or a tree, which several companies use. Whatever the case, it seems like a clever marketing decision.

    I never realized it until seeing or listening to a years ago bit about sales psychology. It mentioned perfumes, colognes, etc. for males often have a phallic shape. I chuckled until I noticed the one in my cabinet. Seems silly really since had nothing to do with my purchase since after smelling several it was the only one I actually liked.

    The old adage, "sex sells" seems to be the modus operandi of many a marketer, even if it is wasted effort. I doubt Apple would admit that, especially to a class of students. "Well, this marketing guy told us sex sells so if you make the apple like the story of adam and eve, you may subconsciously attract more people to your product... and it will be more recognizable." I'm waiting for the time when they use sequentially flashing rainbow of colors to highlight their apple logo.

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