The Coming Pandemic

2005 ,    »  -   322 Comments
118
5.62
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Ratings: 5.62/10 from 39 users.
Storyline
The Coming Pandemic

Whether it's the seemingly annual discovery of a new flu-like virus accompanied by doom-and-gloom press coverage, or the popularity of viral-born zombie epidemics in Hollywood fare these days, or some other form of allusion to an impending cataclysmic viral outbreak, the possibility of a virus bringing entire nations, or even the world, to its knees is becoming an increasingly viable disaster. The Coming Pandemic explores this possibility in a range of hypothetical scenarios piggybacking off semi-actual medical findings and studies.

The film opens on establishing a foundation for the plausibility of a major incident, first in citing historical precedent with the Spanish Flu pandemic that occurred at the tail end of World War I, when soldiers brought home the virus when returning from their service, and then in following a hypothetical trip a young backpacker takes through Asia - he sits on a bus next to a woman infected with bird flu, ingests the airborne virus, and then carries it home with him.

A real-world incident is then examined by the filmmakers, the first recorded cases of the H1N1 virus, which first passed to humans after infected ducks (water born fowl are the most high-risk animals for these kinds of bird flu) were introduced to a chicken population in a small Asian village. When the chickens became ill and died, the farmers didn't think anything of it and decided to distribute the chickens for free anyhow - which of course resulted in the people that ate them contracting the virus.

As alarming as this was and is, scientists have yet to see this virus be passed from human to human, which puts them at ease about the risk we are actually at when it comes to an outbreak. This carries the film to the topic of what actually causes a widespread pandemic, a virus that humans have no immunity to whatsoever, and that occurs when a major mutation is developed in a viral strain. From there, a number of hypothetical scenarios are discussed by various scientists and medical industry professionals, including some of the political ramifications of these types of incidents.

322 Comments / User Reviews

  1. User_1

    This is the most bizare ending I've seen on a doc here. Sad cause it was looking like a great doc.

  2. oQ

    seem like part 2 is missing.

  3. Fabien L'Amour

    It's not complete, journeyman.tv lists it as 52 minutes long.

  4. sharpstuff

    Total and absolute nonsense from start to finish. If there were indeed 'viruses', we would not be here in the first place.

    The plagiarist and charlatan chemist Pasteur is responsible for this nonsense since it was taken up because it made money from drugs from the outset.

    Since then the world has been plagued by the results of spurious and poisonous vaccinations (which don't and can't work), pasteurisation and the corrupt pharmacological complex.

    People who are sucked into this have no grounding in basic nutrition. It is not taught in medical schools because it can't make money. Fear is money.

    Healthy people do not get sick. End of story.

  5. a_no_n

    pure paranoid nonsense!

    there isn't a single shred of evidence in existence that does anything but contradict every word you say!

    Polio is gone, Rhubella is gone, If it weren't for m*rons like you Whooping cough and measles would be gone aswell.

    all of this is down to vaccines, there are entire journals of evidence out there i nsupport of vaccines, published and peer reviewed.

    Did you know that Andrew Wakefield (convicted fraudster) started the anti vaccine movement because he was developing a vaccine alternative and lost the race?

    he then began a campaign of lies and misinformation in a cynical attempt to try and get his own vaccines on the market so he could make money.

    Healthy people don't get sick eh?
    It most certainly is not the end of the story because it's utter horse effluence!

    Where pray tell did you get that dumb idea from? Come on, sources and evidence to back up your ridiculous claims please...otherwise keep your dangerous paranoid nonsense to yourself!

  6. Adam DB

    I do agree that the public is clueless about nutrition, and immunity.

  7. solarcookingal

    viruses ARE real. They can be seen and studied with an electron microscope. Vaccination has saved the lives of millions of children who used to die of now virtually unheard of diseases like whooping cough and polio.

    Yes it would be good if doctors were better trained in nutrition. (Peer reviewed science not the latest testimonial based craze). The influenza pandemic of 1918, however was deadliest to those who DID have the strongest immune system like young adults. The H1N1 virus was not as deadly because we know more about the immune system and can suppress it when it over reacts.

    I do worry about more fear mongering to already germophobic Americans. Yes we need to be alert to new diseases and nip in the bud as early as humanly possible but not panic.

  8. chip griffin

    how many lies do we let them tell until we stand and die if need be. these devils will not quit until the mark is in all of us!
    this is the reason for everything you see now. THE MARK OF THE BEAST WILL BE INSIDE THE VACCINE! this vaccine will be forced on you by laws already in the books and at gun point. if you do not yield then it is death, well i chose death. just like the 2 billion bullets, one of them has my name on it. how long until the evil shows up? the roadblocks and then the murder. by years end. know where you stand now. don't let them break you with their fear, they are not smart enough to fear their own death, for it shall come, so help me GOD...

  9. Fabien L'Amour

    I take you are a very healthy person. To test your theory, I suggest you find a rabid animal and let it bite you to prove that the rabies virus doesn't exist. To further prove the virus doesn't exist, do not clean the wound and reject the vaccine and immunoglobulin, which are the only cures once infected.

  10. Doctor Jack

    There is no such thing as a rabies virus or rabies anything. What there is is an animal that's gotten into something poisonous that causes aberrant behavior. Of course one could be attacked which is potentially harmful. But there's no risk of being "infected" with a so called rabies virus or bacteria. If you believe otherwise, that's what you're suppose to believe as that requires medical treatment cha-ching cha-ching...

  11. Fabien L'Amour

    I dearly hope you are trolling me because now not only viruses don't exist but bacterias too! With that comment, you just accused a whole field of science, microbiology of being a fraud. Do you also believe cells don't exist while being at it?

  12. bluetortilla

    Well I gave it a ten instead of an eight just to try to stem all the crackpots who are appearing in the posts. 40 million deaths in 1919 with flu symptoms. Hmmm...you people think it's a lie huh?

  13. bluetortilla

    Doctor Jack is obviously a virus, not a troll.

  14. Fabien L'Amour

    Probably a virus induced delirium ;)

  15. Fabien L'Amour

    Sounds costly to add the Mark of the beast in each vaccine on the planet. Corporations try not to add useless ingredients in their products as it incurs costs and cuts into their profits.

  16. chip griffin

    they have no say in it, the mark is the point and they have been paid to do their jobs. it will be forced mark at that...

  17. Doctor Jack

    What is being identified as 'virus' exists but does not cause health problems. How could something that's a non living entity take over a cell? Dead stuff can't act. Bacteria, on the other hand, are alive but again, do not cause health problems. On the contrary, we have a symbiotic relationship with bacteria. Presence is one thing, causation is entirely another. Even Pasteur is purported to have said near the end of his life, "It's not the seed, it's the soil." Florence Nightingale said, "Diseases are not things like cats and dogs but conditions like clean and dirty." There are an unlimited number of ways we can intoxicate ourselves which does cause many lack of eases. Also, if you look up the definition of 'virus' in an older dictionary you will find that it is not defined as a micro organism but rather a poison as in snake venom or an oozing liquid as in pus, etc.

  18. Fabien L'Amour

    I'll have to disagree that viruses don't cause health problems. A non living entity can easily take over a cell, it's been proven with DNA manipulation hundreds of times. Geneticians actually use viruses to genetically engineer GM crops.

    As for Bacterias, there are several pathogenic bacterias that don't have a symbiotic relationship with humans. Obligate intracellular bacterias cannot reproduce outside their host cell, meaning that the parasite's reproduction is entirely reliant on intracellular resources. Diseases caused by such bacterias include typhus, chlamydia and leprosy.

  19. Fabien L'Amour

    I am really trying to understand what you wrote but I can't comprehend it. Who is they, who is paying them, what is that forced mark?

  20. Doctor Jack

    Well sir, I guess it all boils down to what you believe right? I am 65, began studying health at the age of 38, other than a couple of physical mishaps, I haven't been "sick" since the age of 38, can still do everything now that I've been able to do all my life, haven't taken even as much as an aspirin or anything else since I was 38. Call me crazy but I believe health is only produced by healthful living which most definitely does NOT include so called vaccines. I know I'm correct because I've not only experienced self healing but so have my patients, from conditions that would be recognized by medical personnel as needing medical treatments such as surgery and drugs. I don't offer treatments but rather a more correct understanding/education of what lack of ease is, what causes lack of eases and how to correctly, biologically eliminate lack of eases for as long as one desires, that is, to the extent that cellular damage hasn't gone past the point of no return in terms of damage already done.

  21. Fabien L'Amour

    Healthful living certainly helps remaining healthy. Do you believe enough in your theories to go practice your medicine in Liberia with Ebola patients without any protection whatsoever? That would be a definite proof of your theories and would help thousands.

  22. Doctor Jack

    Of course but I don't practice medicine!!!
    There would be conditions though. I would require an extremely clean and comfortable place to live. I would only be willing to work a 7 or maybe 8 hour day five days a week. I would require distilled water for drinking purposes. I would require access to high quality fresh foods and refrigeration. I would require electricity where I live. I would require reliable transportation. In other words, I would require pretty much the same conditions and circumstances that I have where I currently live so that my lifestyle would essentially be the same. The only difference would be I would be counseling those who have been led to believe that they caught something and hopefully persuading them to understand what's really happening with them and what treatments to accept and which ones to reject. I would obviously need an interpreter. I would also require that my patients be provided the same high quality living standards as I would demand for myself as it would do no good to properly take care of a patient in clean and sanitary conditions, get them back to a higher level of health and then send them back to their regular toxic living / working environment as they'll just become compromised again as it's nothing more than cause and effect. I would not require HAZ MAT gear or any other non nonsensical apparel. I would be allowed to wear my own clothes. Those that would be assisting me would have to do what I suggested as far as patient care goes. I say that because back in the early 90s I was counseling a man who was in the process of overcoming what he thought he had "caught". He was recovering nicely but decided his recovery was taking too long and also requested certain things that would have been inimical to his recovery, which I would not provide. So he called the so called medical experts in this particular area. They put him in the hospital, gave him what he wanted plus a whole lot more. He perished within a few days of being in their "care". They got him to believe what you believe and well, like I said, he paid the ultimate price. He was only 40 years old and had a lot more life ahead of him but...
    Remember I use to believe exactly what you believe. It took thousands of hours of retraining for me to liberate myself from worshiping at The Church of Modern Day Medicine.

  23. Fabien L'Amour

    It's extremely questionable you could cure Ebola by counseling no matter what your living conditions are. What do you think kills nearly 50% of the infected people including nurses and doctors if the virus doesn't exist or doesn't trigger the disease???

  24. Vlatko

    Basically you've based your entire life on misinterpretation of two simple words: "prevention" and "treatment."

    On top of that missenteprataion you've piled up some strange paranoia that viruses and bacteria do not actually exist.

    Bravo.

  25. Doctor Jack

    'Cure' is a medical term and concept. My response to you did not include the word 'cure' did it? Also, the concept of 'infection' is also a medical concept. What you believe 'infection' is and what it really is are NOT the same thing. And, what you think 'disease' is and what it actually is, at least in its acute and chronic stages, is NOT the same as what you think it is. If, in fact, medical personnel are dying at the same rate as resident Africans, it would require investigation/research as to the circumstances, substances and influences that they too are subjected to on an ongoing day to day basis as similar organisms subjected to similar circumstances, influences and substances, behave similarly. Remember, they believe in contagion too just like you do so they are vulnerable or likely to make health compromising decisions that could, in fact, result in death. I know, I tried to help a number of people in the early 90s, to set them straight as to what was really going on with their health problems but they accused me of attempting to spread "disinformation". They all died because they thought in medical concepts like you and it cost them their very lives. None of them had to die at all. What can I say - Oh Well...

    As to the origin of "ebola", aren't you being a bit naive to believe that the "virus" came from bats? Doesn't that sound a little too convenient to you? Bats have been in Africa for hundreds of millions of years and yet it's never been considered the source of human health problems. Why, all of the sudden, it's being blamed for human health problems. BTW, I don't recommend eating bats or most other "bush meat" for that matter. Virus or no virus, that could make a person sick, especially if it's killed, allowed to rot over some period of time before it's eaten. Not a good idea.

    BTW, all the other "viral" diseases are not caused by viruses either, virus being defined as a micro organism. This would inciude flu, colds, hepatitis, syphilis, herpes, SARS, MERSA, malaria, Rat lung worm and so forth ad nauseam. Medical obfuscation is nothing new; it goes back hundreds of years.

  26. Doctor Jack

    Bacteria definitely exist and what is referred to as 'virus' also exist. What I'm saying Vlatko is that they are not causative factors in health problems. As for 'prevention', you don't have to prevent anything that you haven't caused in the first place. As for 'treatment', you may but I don't consider counseling as a form of 'treatment'. I am not a symptom treater. I am an educator.

  27. over the edge

    You have sure made a lot of claims. I will highlight but a few.

    - "here is no such thing as a rabies virus". Source please?

    - When considering bacteria and viruses you state. "they are not causative factors in health problems" Source please?

    - "all the other "viral" diseases are not caused by viruses either," Source please?

    Here is my problem. You make claims backed by nothing other than your say so (aka absolutely nothing). The internet is full of baseless claims. So why would anybody believe you over the countless other medical claims? If you can't back it up with empirical data, I might as well be talking to someone who claims Elvis is still alive. At least they are entertaining and less dangerous to the well being of others.

  28. Fabien L'Amour

    What you wrote is totally unscientific. Contagion can't be controlled by not believing in it. Countless victims of the plague believed it was caused by the devil, no amount of praying stopped it from spreading.

    If what you say was right, quarantine and disinfection wouldn't work as anyone could randomly change a "circumstance" in their life and become sick without the presence of a foreign agent. But quarantine and disinfection do work so there are definitely germs being controlled there.

  29. Doctor Jack

    I didn't mean to imply that 'belief' makes something real or not real. What i meant is that you see disease through a prism of contagion. I use to but no longer do. Let me ask you, in your research, what did cause the plague?

  30. Fabien L'Amour

    Yersinia pestis

  31. Doctor Jack

    Fabien - I feel sorry for you because you are just one of the billions of people who've been educated to believe in and have bought the medical model of dis ease causation. How could it be otherwise? We live in a medical culture. Medical science is not only the prevailing model of healhcare, for all practical purposes, it's the ONLY model of healthcare. Yes there's chiropractic, naturopathic, herbal, acupuncture and so forth but they are but drops in the bucket compared to the juggernaut medical industry that pervades the very fabric of societies from one end of the globe to the other. In 1988, I came across a different model of healthcare purely by accident. If what I heard was, in fact correct, then what that meant was that practically everything I had believed in all my life and practically all medical treatments I had received over a 38 year period were not only incorrect but actually life threatening. So I had to check this out and check it out I did - to the tune of well over 25,000 hours of research and reading and viewing and listening to lectures, not all from the same source either. And what I learned was astounding and it all made sense. I could then look back over my life and see why I really became ill at certain times, what medical treatments I was subjected to that were not only not beneficial but life threatening and even surgeries I had that were not necessary. Did the physicians know what I had newly learned? No of course not. They were just doing what they were trained to do and making a decent living as well. Nothing wrong with that. But there was something wrong with that - plenty wrong in fact. Medical Science is pretty much a controlled body of information that is designed to benefit those who promote same. Most treatments advocated are not only without health merits but actually very dangerous to life. The very concept of medicine is based on magic from thousands of years ago. It is wrong in concept and incorrect in practice in about 80% of all situations. The exceptions are accidents, emergencies, injuries, birth defects and some corrective surgeries so I am not saying all medical procedures and treatments are inimical to health and well being but I am saying that most of them are.

    Now I have given you quite a bit of my time these last few days, something I don't ordinarily do. In order to learn what I have learned, you would have to become my student and as such, you would be learning what I've learned building a proper foundation and working your way up from there. It would take you years and thousands of hours of study to get to the level where I've been speaking to you from. In other words, my sparing with you in this forum hasn't been fair to you because you don't have the advantages that I have. To understand the real causes of dis ease means you will become a target of ridicule just as I've become but it will also mean that you would be able to extricate yourself from a belief system where you are undoubtedly going to continue to make bad healthcare decisions for yourself and possibly for your loved ones. It will also mean that you will have better tools with which to assist others with health problems, people who are just as much in the dark as you presently are. In other words, there will probably be more unlearning than learning. You would have to unlearn all the false medical theories like yersinia pestis caused The Plague. That's just not true. It's not even close.

    If that's something you'd like to think about and then reply, that's fine. My services would not be free. I usually work with people who are having health problems and my minimum working period is one year as learning and experiencing take time. Of course I doubt you'd be interested and that's OK. I've found out that most people are not really interested in real health especially if they have to take way more responsibility for their own health than they otherwise have thus far. Heck, it's just a lot easier to blame illness on micro organisms, take something to relieve pain when you've made yourself ill and go about your merry way. After all, physicians would be nuts to indicate that the patient/customer had anything to do with causing their own health problems, right? I'm sure they are taught in medicine school that you do not blame the customer as that's bad for business.

    So there you have it. If I don't hear back from you, believe me, I will understand. After all, you don't know me from Adam and I'm telling you that you would have to become my student and pay me as well. Probably not going to happen. It's just unfortunate that there are very few people in the real health field. I don't know of anyone else where I live that knows what I know but I'm all about changing that and am making efforts to do so through education. If I'm effective within my community, there will be MDs looking for other work.

    Take care,

    Doctor Jack

  32. Doctor Jack

    I definitely have sources and resources but I am not giving them away for free. Some are even medical doctors and medical Ph.D.s who've turned against their own profession costing them lost Grants, laboratories, prestige and money. It wouldn't be fair to my paid clients to freely give away my information sources. (See above post to Fabien).

  33. Jon

    Vaccines are but one way to inhibit the spread of a commutable disease. When the influenza virus was hyped by government to become unmanageable and vaccines forced on citizens, the public hysteria was not about the disease but caution in implementing public health strategies based on haunches.

    Truth is the caution by citizens paid off and the influenza hype's worst fears never happened. The present generation is apparently wizened by fail rates and side effects of earlier vaccines. Besides, the virus that causes influenza has been known to mutate or adapt and these vaccines are not fail safe solutions. The shelf life is set at 6 months before the influenza virus is expected to change and adapt, making the existing vaccine inadequate against the threat to public health.

    Our present day health consciousness driven by an information society gives people more choices than ever. We got a generation spending more time in gyms and self help exercises or healthy lifestyle They got a good idea of the human body working like a machine that can adapt and overcome diseases and physical weaknesses. Yes, much like the influenza virus, the human body can alter its protection against diseases by nutrition, exercise and good sanitation measures other than medicine and surgery. The body can heal itself and can create anti bodies to protect against life threatening changes or factors.

  34. over the edge

    I saw your above post to Fabien. So all you have is requests for money for so far non existent sources. Given with a thick coating of arrogance. neither is a substitute for proof.

  35. Doctor Jack

    The proof is my sources but you're right, I am not giving that away. You want my sources, you have to pay for it. I had to pay for it, my patients have to pay for it so you should have to as well. I can say, without arrogance, this is an opportunity of a lifetime, one you are extremely unlikely to come across ever again. You would benefit beyond your wildest dreams if that's your desire. I, on the other hand, would have the satisfaction of liberating one more person from the medical mental prison that's been constructed to hold the world's people in bondage. No one gets out alive but if you follow the medical party line, as almost everyone does, you are highly likely to be checking out prematurely from something or another that's not particularly life threatening unless that something is (mis)interpreted by medical personnel and treated according to medical protocol. I know many people I offered to help for free, who spurned my free offer. They all met their maker in their 40s simply because they were following the advice of people who are educated to provide treatments that only benefit the industry. Oh well...they were all clueless and, unfortunately, you fall into that category as well as do almost everybody in the world except maybe one tenth of one per cent of the world's population and they may be a high estimate.

    Best of health,

    Doctor Jack

  36. Achems_Razor

    You sound like a (CHARLATAN) Jack!

  37. Doctor Jack

    You can fool some of the people some of the time. You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time...I am one of the lucky few who is no longer fooled by medical "science" so call me whatever you like it matters not to me or those I counsel.

  38. Achems_Razor

    Yawn...using quotes from authority wont cut it!
    You are practicing medicine no doubt to
    cure? life threatening syndromes without proper qualifications and are therefore subject to litigation.

  39. Fabien L'Amour

    Thanks for the offer but I'll pass. I have no desire to become a healer and am not willing to give money to a perfect stranger based on a discussion on Disqus.

  40. Doctor Jack

    Fair enough...

  41. Vlatko

    So many words for nothing. Why didn't you just say you're an ordinary snake oil salesman?

  42. Doctor Jack

    Sorry to have bothered you Vlatko.

  43. Fabien L'Amour

    What you said is true but vaccines aren't made to protect people with good health that go to the gym. They are provided to stimulate the immunity of the weakest. Up here in Canada they don't recommend healthy adults get the influenza vaccine, it is targeted at the elderly and people with respiratory problems.

  44. Vlatko

    I have edited your post. It looks like you're about to lose your temper.

    I don't really know how to explain this to you but scamming ill, vulnerable and desperate people is a very wrong thing (I reckon that is what you do)... plus snake oil promotion on these threads is not allowed.

  45. Doctor Jack

    Why don't you just post messages using my name since you've edited/changed the content of the ones I've submitted? You're on the wrong side of this debate sir. Historically, 'snake oil salesmen' refers to those who peddle remedies, drugs, nostrums, elixirs, cures etc. I, on the other hand, simply educate my patients as to what they are doing/not doing that's causing their health problems. In every case I can recall, with the assistance of their physicians, they have all chosen to wean themselves from the "medicines" that were prescribed for them, i.e. "snake oil". It's YOU who are advocating snake oil, not me.
    TEACHING people what disease really is, the causes of disease and the causes of health while rare, the educational approach to healthcare is the best approach but it's only for people who are capable of independent thinking not people like yourself who don't know what they are talking about. You do not know what you are talking about sir.

  46. Fabien L'Amour

    Which medicines did they wean themselves off of and why did their physician prescribe them if he was in accord with the weaning? You use a lot of words but are rather shy on the details. It's one thing to wean yourself off painkillers but definitely is dangerous to stop taking insulin. Do you claim you can have anyone stop using prescribed medicines with your technique?

  47. Vlatko

    You don't get it? Your snake oil is in the form of disinformation, misinformation and shameless, misleading and dangerous propaganda. You don't have to sell only "goods" in order to be snake oil salesman. You know you can sell "services" too.

  48. Doctor Jack

    The patient is the customer right? He told his Rx that he was implementing healthful living strategies to improve overall physiological function and that it was his and his wife's intention to wean from HBP meds at some point. As I recall, they were about a year into healthier living when they were able, with physician assistance, to cease using these drugs. The husband also stopped taking Plavix for a stent, of course, with his Rx's assistance. As you're aware, I am not a drug doctor so I am not qualified to take anybody off of anything. That would be between the patient and his/her medical physician.
    As for insulin, if a patient with Type II diabetes has been on an exterior source of insulin for less than two years, with lifestyle improvements, they too, in most cases, are able to wean off of insulin. If they have been using it for more than two years, it is not likely they can stop using it as their body's ability to produce its own insulin has atrophied since it's getting an analog form of insulin from an exterior source; therefore, the patient is medically dependent upon administered insulin for the rest of his/her life.
    That's just two situations. There are many more but I don't think you expect me to describe each and every case...

  49. Doctor Jack

    The last time I was accused of attempting to "spread disinformation" they all died from a combination of lifestyle abuses and "life saving treatments" they received from their physicians. Their deaths were totally unnecessary but... oh well...

  50. Fabien L'Amour

    I agree there is serious over-prescriptions of medicines and I think it should be illegal to advertise them. I disagree you can cure everything without them though. My neighbor was a chiropractor and claimed he could cure everything. He got diabetes and died before he was 50. There is no "cure everything magic" be it a potion, manipulations or a lifestyle.

  51. Doctor Jack

    Fabien - NO WHERE in my posts have I said or have you read that lifestyle or any other approach to improving one's health can, to use your term, "cure" everything. You're absolutely right!
    There are many factors that have to be taken into consideration as to whether I take an individual on as a client as I'm not into wasting my time or their time and money. I have a perspective client fill out a multi page Personal Health Profile to give me sufficient information to make such a determination. I will tell you though, that the biggest deterrent to my accepting an individual as a new client is how much medical intervention they're already been subjected to. Also, I don't work in a vacuum. I have licensed professional colleagues who I refer my clients to at the appropriate time, those who have conventional medical backgrounds, etcetera but who have studied and also advocate what I have studied and advocate.

  52. Fabien L'Amour

    Thanks for the clarification, you started off with a very outlandish post so I was a bit worried you would totally reject science or be some guru that has people eating 12 lbs of carrots everyday or some herbs from Patagonia to cure every disease there is.

    If you pick rather healthy customers that have "discomfort" situations and no serious illness, I have no problem whatsoever you advise them to change their lifestyle if they are willing to fork out the money.

    I still disagree with your statement that viruses and bacterias don't cause disease.

  53. Achems_Razor

    You know, you basically sound like all the spam we get on TDF saying that spiritual healers can cure every disease under the sun and or offering spells that can do the same, even get your lovers back etc: complete unmitigated nonsense, snake oil salesman galore. You are doing the same with your request for money for sight unseen evidence.

  54. Doctor Jack

    Nowhere have I mentioned "spritual healing" or "curing every disease under the sun". You are putting words in my mouth. My approach to health care is extremely effective in the acute and chronic stages but not so much in the degenerative stage. I never promise anybody they will achieve "x" improvements. They know that going in to counseling But I also don't take on those who are too far gone either. I have had only one client ask for her money back. She was Russian, spoke English but did not read it too well and thus the educational approach for her was just too frustrating. I promptly refunded her money.

  55. Doctor Jack

    I don't know what you consider to be "serous illnesses" but most acute and chronic conditions or diseases can be reversed provided the client is willing to learn and implement same. For example, arthritis is a connective tissue disorder. Everybody I've worked with with that problem who has applied what they've learned to their lifestyle has been able to reverse this problem - no drugs, no supplements, no herbs or treatments at all, just healthier habits of living. In other words, they were unwittingly causing their own pathology. That's just one example.

    Of course you disagree with my statement that bacteria and viruses don't cause disease. You've never studied or come across any information that explains otherwise. On the contrary, everybody you know, I mean everybody, believes they do just like you. A huge chunk of income to the medical industrial complex would simply disappear if the world thought otherwise. Since 1988, I have needed medical assistance twice - both due to physical injuries. Other than that, I don't have a "My Doctor". Imagine if that were multiplied across entire populations. Rx would not be able to sustain a living. Medince, in order to survive and thrive, must keep up the illusion of contagion and they do and do it well. I believed it too until I got lucky and came across information that said that's not the case and put in 25,000 hours reading same and not all from the same source. Different unrelated authors pretty much came to the same conclusions independently of each other based on their own research. I even saw Bill O'Reilly on his TV show, come close to figuring this out about some "pandemic" but it was a flash in the pan and then he went on with other news. The programming is so strong, anyone who professes to think otherwise is automatically labelled a charlatan, quack, snake oil salesman and so forth. Name calling doesn't change the facts as have been stated in my previous posts. This was a tough nut to crack for me. That's why I had to do so much reading and research not to confirm my suspicions but to come across anything that would legitimately refute such an assertion.

  56. Fabien L'Amour

    I've seen with my own eyes tuberculosis kills hens of my mother because she introduced 1 sick bird. You will never convince me contagion doesn't exist.

  57. Doctor Jack

    I'll address the chicken thing at the end. As you believe, tuberculosis is considered a highly infection contagious disease right?
    Hospitals even have separate wings for tuberculin patients, in effect, quarantining them from the rest of the hospital's patients right? SOooooooooo...if that's all true, wouldn't it logically follow that over some protracted period of time, there would be multiple news stories in the public domain of large numbers of hospital personnel contracting tuberculosis who administer to these highly infection, contagious tuberculin patients. I took a local paper for 16 years, read it daily and I do not recall ever reading such articles. Have you? How about this, hepatitis is considered a communicable disease right? Do you know what the suffix 'itis' means? It means inflammation. So it means inflammation of whatever the root prefix of the word is such as appendicitis is inflammation of the appendix, bursitis, inflammation of connective tissue, rhinitis, inflammation of the nose and so forth. So tell me, why is liver inflammation considered and marketed as a communicable disease while inflammation of other organs and tissues are not? Any idea? As to the chicken experience you witnessed, isn't it possible that your mother may have introduced new or different chicken feed and / or water or chicken medicine or some other substances. Were all these chickens kept in tight, close confinement where they didn't have enough room to move about or what? Did they have access to fresh air, barnyard roaming, ability to exercise or what? Where they on hormones and / or antibiotics? Were lights kept on in their pins all night so that they never experienced night time. Were they completely sheltered from rain, too hot, too cold? Did they have bedding? Was where they lived properly cleaned on a regular basis or was their a build up of their effluvia? If you know, be honest. If you don't know, you may have to research their overall living conditions at the time this situation took place. In other words, it may take a bit more investigation on your part. How much time went by from the time the sick chicken was exposed to the other fowl where they became identically sick/died? Did all the existing fowl die or only some? Were their deaths slow and protracted or did they drop like a rock within minutes of exposure.

  58. Fabien L'Amour

    The Veterinarian institute did an autopsy on the peacock that started it all and the origin facility got closed.

  59. Doctor Jack

    That's some information but not enough to make a conclusive determination. If you dig a little deeper, you'd probably be told that the tuberculosis bacteria was the cause of disease and subsequent death. Veterinarians, like medical school students, are taught that micro organisms cause dis ease. I have been taught that they are present but not causative just like where you find garbage you find flies but it would be illogical to conclude that the flies caused the garbage. It's the garbage that's causing the dis ease or dis order or dis comfort or lack of ease or symptoms and not the flies. It's also possible that introducing that new bird to a group of already existing compatible birds may have had a psychologically disrupting affect putting them into a downward tailspin from which they never recovered. You may dismiss this as a joke but I've seen this happen at a time when I was lower on the learning curve and unfortunately initiated these enervating influences in two relatives but not at the same time. I made comments that were so irritating to them, my dad slept for 18 hours and, at a different time, my uncle had to be taken to the hospital due to breathing difficulties. He was released a couple days later but it was my comments that put an already compromised individual over the top. What I said was an exacerbating influence not a primary influence.

    If you are so inclined, you might want to investigate the origin facility and what all that entails instead of just accepting that it was the tuberculosis bacteria. There has to be something(s) there that you're not aware of nor am I. It would require research but I doubt it would be worth your time not to mention, anything you're told would be in lockstep with 'bacteria cause disease' theory.

    I know people where I live who repeatedly make themselves sick but when their Rx shows them the bacteria in his slide or visual presentations, they are convinced that's what caused their illnesses and not their physiologically incorrect habits of living. They probably take antibiotics, just like I use to do, the symptoms dissipate, you feel fine in a few days and well, one would empirically conclude that the drug killed the bacteria and you're fine right? But that's not what happened, not at all.

  60. Fabien L'Amour

    You are telling me to reject the results of an autopsy in favor of some theory that a peacock disrupted the psychological balance of hens and sent them in a tailspin to death. Please consider that conversation over.

  61. Doctor Jack

    Autopsies are interpreted through a MEDICAL lens. You apparently missed the garbage/flies analogy. You're also discounting psychological factors as having deleterious affects on health. I have certainly experienced that and there's no reason to believe other species wouldn't be subject to the same. Of course not having studied the subtler influences on health levels, that concept would be considered idiotic. But you're right. This conversation is over...

  62. bringmeredwine

    And a psychopath.

  63. jackmax

    You stated that you have done 25000 hours of reading but yet when asked for evidence you don't even steer the person into your resource pool of reading material, why is that?
    By not revealing this information that you have about health and general well being aren't you just as bad as the one whom you are at logger head with?
    Or is greed your only motivator?

    Why is it when asked a question you avoid the answer by insulting all that are in the health profession and anyone that may disagree with you. Is it a case of blinded by your own BS and you are to conceited to admit that you are wrong.

    What ailments can you fix? and have you any peer views to confirm that it was your treatment that had returned the patient to good health?

    Would it be fair to say that you only take on new patient when they have no underlying complaint. Other wise your questionnaire would only be the basic client details and next of kin details in case of an emergency, not a detailed one like you have stated. You also stated that it also depends on weather or not they have had medical intervention. You claim that you have weaned people of medication

    yet when asked what medicine you don't answer. Would the reason you don't answer these questions is that you are full of sh*t and bluetortilla is right and your nothing more than a virus(troll) look for his five minutes of glory?

  64. Doctor Jack

    No, I'm not blinded or conceited. My resource materials, a lot of which have been written by medical doctors, doctors that have pretty much turned away from the practice of conventional medicine as they came to realize that, in most cases, it was not the right approach. As for my not revealing my resources without being compensated, if you don't have skin in the game, you're not going to value what it is you're reading/learning. I had to pay and kept paying out of choice and so should you. I know from which I speak as I have offered and made available all my resources to thousands of people simultaneously and only one person made inquiry. The rest, I can only guess, because of their own ingrained misinformed belief system, have already decided that I was looney tunes and just simply weren't interested in my sources though freely offered. So I don't do that any more.

    Apparently you haven't read all my comments. If you had, you would know that I offer no treatments or substances. I just TEACH my clients what they are doing/not doing that's causing their health problems.
    I did mention some drugs my clients have been able to wean themselves from - HBP meds, Plavix, drugs for connective tissue inflammation. The people I have worked with absolutely had health problems had tried everything else under the sun to no avail, still had problems and when they were either referred to me or found out about me, they made the call. So yeah, they all had very real problems that medical "science" couldn't cure.

    If you were able to find a little historical background on the rise of medicine, you would find that one very wealthy family in the U.S. well over a hundred years ago was able to extend undue influence on the overall direction of where healthcare was going and it was all about taking a huge fortune and turning it into a world changing fortune which they have as their heirs carry on the original work. This foundation of foundations has, in effect, the power of God on the world's people. They have determined what is taught in medicine schools and how it's taught, the truth be damned. They influence the very content of the news everyone listens to and reads. And, over time, they have gotten a lot richer and way more powerful as they continue to exploit the misinformed world populace that wholeheartedly believes what is not true unfortunately, as you do too. That's not a putdown but how do you tactfully tell someone that they've been brainwashed? No one wants to be told they are brainwashed and, instead, take it as an insult and attack the person making that assertion when, in fact, if they were wise, they would want to become unbrainwashed. Anyway, I've spent waaaay too much time in this forum and am ready to call it quits and besides, I've taken on two new patients this week and best be spending my time attending to the needs of those who value my ability to assist them with a multitude of problems they both have in spite of medical "care" and other modalities.

    Take care,

    Doctor Jack

  65. Doctor Jack

    BTW, Jackmax, if you want proof that ebola is a total crock of youknowwhat, if you're willing to do a bit of footwork, you can absolutely prove it to yourself that it's a total scam. To prove the so called test is BS, find yourself a couple dozen people who are in various stages of illnesses - flu, colds, fevers and so forth, people who have never been to Africa and don't know anyone who has and haven't done any traveling within the past few months. Ask them to take the "ebola test". The likelihood that at least one out of twenty people in various stages of illness will test positive is high. There may even be more than one out of twenty testing "positive". Diagnosis is very far from an exact science. In fact, the majority of all medical diagnostic testing has no third party verification. It's just whatever the manufacturer says it does that's taken as gospel. I don't trust that and you shouldn't either...you can find lots of sick people in any community - hospitals, nursing homes, assisted living centers and so forth. There were old ladies in nursing homes that were diagnosed HIV Positive - what a total crock!!! But if you believed all that crap - GOTCHA!!!

  66. jackmax

    Your ramble at no stage has made any attempt to answer the question put to you.
    If what you say is from your research and from reading over 25000 hours why is it that you can not give one reference to any one of a number books or papers that may lead other to investigate your claims.
    I noticed that your answer is that it cost you money and you believe that you should be compensated for your outlay, but that is a crock of sh*t.

    With the outlandish claims about the medical profession you must be able to prove them otherwise you're no better than a deceitful lying charlatan that it appear you are.

    If you were to apply critical thinking to what you have written as it appears the rest of us have done, you will also see the holes in your story.

  67. jackmax

    "But if you believed all that crap - GOTCHA!!!"

    Well aren't I lucky that I believe your full of sh*t then.

  68. Doctor Jack

    OK, Here's one reference. Dr. Robert Mendelsohn, M.D. wrote three books. You should read all three.

  69. Fabien L'Amour

    I have an open mind but considering birds would die because of a psychological imbalance caused by a peacock is completely crazy. No bird would ever have survived in nature if their psyche was so weak.

  70. Doctor Jack

    That's it on you. . .

  71. susan g

    I couldn't agree with you more on that Razor.

  72. susan g

    You sound like some cheap con-man. You could also be someone who has a beef with conventional medicine, usually because they weren't able to cure a friend or family member so now you feel they are all frauds.

    The fact is Jack people are continuing to live longer than ever before. This is in spite of their unhealthy diets and obesity.Yes we are seeing more diseases like cancer and heart disease, but those are diseases of old age. People didn't used to live long enough to get cancer.

    Your words smack of a sales pitch for snake oil. It's all there. Claiming it's an opportunity of a lifetime to get rich. Check.

    You have all the correct answers, while those stupid, corrupt and clueless doctors with all their useless education will do nothing for you but make sure you meet your death at an early age. Oh and this is a certainly. Check.

    Only you and a few other special people have treatments and cures for disease. Check.

    If any of what you have written were true, why would you want to keep it a secrete from the masses? What does that say about the character of a person who claims to have all this vital information that would benefit mankind, but they share it with only people who will pay for it? I've read many comments by posters like Acheme Razor and jackman. I know they would agree with me that you sound like nothing more than a cheap huckster. I wonder how many have been ripped off by you 'Docktor' Jack? Just what kind of Docktor do you fancy yourself? Witch docktor?

  73. jackmax

    Is this the same Dr Robert Mendelsohn that engaged in irresponsible criticism of the medical profession and science-based health care during most of his medical career.
    the same that during the 80's, his unfair attack on immunization on Phil Donahue's show was so irresponsible that spokespeople from the American Academy of Pediatrics were permitted to rebut that he said in a follow-up program shortly afterward. To the best of my knowledge, this is the only time that Donahue's producers ever permitted unopposed criticism of quack nonsense.

    The same one that state he has been practicing pediatrics for almost 30 years. Only to be found out that his description was misleading and during a deposition in 1980 he admitted " that he had practiced full-time from 1955 through 1966, held administrative jobs for about ten years, and resumed practicing in 1976 but saw only 6 to 12 patients per week. He also testified that he opposed "all forms of routine examinations by any health practitioner of any kind" and said that no one should ever see a doctor when feeling healthy."

    This quote from Joseph M. Miller, M.D., M.P.H
    ACSH sheds plenty of light on his misinformation and misleading statements he had made. "Whereas a calm, mature, and scholarly application of professional self-examination can readily uncover many areas for correction or modification in the practice of modern medicine, Robert Mendelsohn chooses instead to take the low road in an apparent effort to use shock therapy for the selling of his very private and dogmatic panaceas. What ensues is a boring and repetitive harangue which attacks frontally the patient-doctor relationship and tries ineffectually to foster a hodge-podge of confused views about the physician as a social and scientific manipulator of the patient's well being."

  74. susan g

    Are you licensed to be counseling/treating/ these people you refer to as your patients? In the U.S. if you aren't licensed to be doing whatever it is you are doing it's called practicing medicine without a license. It's a felony that can result in prison time. As well it should.

  75. jackmax

    G'day susan g,

    How rigorously does the authorities investigate these charlatans with in the states and do you know the success rate of their investigations to prosecutions.

    Have a nice day.

  76. susan g

    "BTW, all the other "viral" diseases are not caused by viruses either, virus being defined as a micro organism. This would include flu,colds, hepatitis, syphilis, herpes, SARS, MERSA, malaria,"

    First of all it's MRSA NOT MERSA. Secondly syphilis and MRSA are a kind of bacteria not a virus.

    You sound like a member of the very small fringe group of germ theory denialists. They also make the ridiculous claim that HIV isn't the cause of AIDS and bacteria and viruses don't cause infection and disease.

    Talk about willful ignorance! In almost every case where I've come across someone with this whacked out theory there are two things you can be sure of. One, the person making these outlandish claims has no formal education in the sciences. And two, other than anecdotal stories they haven't a shred of evidence that proves why their theory is right.

  77. susan g

    You really ARE an ignoramus! You don't GOTCHA anyone you dumb ass.

    Yes it is true that in a small number of people taking the test, other active viral infections can affect the preliminary test the ELISA test and result in a positive result. When ever a patient tests positive on the ELISA they ALWAYS ALWAYS do a confirmatory PCR test which identifies the presence of viral load.

    There are also new faster tests for Ebola coming on line.

  78. susan g

    Excellent point which I'm sure is lost on docktor Jack.

  79. susan g

    Scientists have now identified these different viruses and bacterias. They have mapped their genomes, taken them apart, micrographed, and put them back together. They know how they replicate, invade the cells, and in essence they know exactly how they invade the body and make us sick. With bacteria they have done the same.

    The Plague nearly wiped out Europe and there are flu pandemics *Spanish flu) killed nearly 1/3 of the population on planet Earth. And you sit there and type out the b.S that these organisms don't cause pandemics?! Really? You sound like an absolute fool. How could anyone take anything you say seriously when you've made such a claim?

  80. bluetortilla

    Well, I don't think there's a need to call anyone an 'ignoramus' but basically I do share your view. In fact, nearly everyone does.
    That being said, and not that I know much about ELISA, but it is a test not for a virus but the antibodies to the virus. Ditto with other viruses like HB and HC. These tests are all designed to detect a previous infection and say nothing about the state of the contagion now (i.e. dormant or active). I've never heard that HIV can be identified specifically by a viral load test, though that test can be of diagnostic value during different stages of AIDS itself. I guess a PCR test in addition to confirmatory antibody test could be helpful in some ways, but would not tell us anything specific about HIV presence. Am I wrong?

  81. susan g

    Tuberculosis is a contagious disease. It is also an airborne transmitted disease. If the healthcare workers caring for these TB patients observe the simple precaution of wearing a mask and also having the patient wear a mask, the chance of transmission is very low. I always felt safer taking care of patients who I knew what their infection was and how to avoid it. I worry far more about being in a packed elevator with one of the people infected with TB.

  82. Bob

    Apparently the SARS virus outbreak in '02/'03 was taken from a remote place by a treating doctor, who went to go to a wedding in Hong Kong.
    In an elevator ride in his hotel he infected multiple people who went on to spread the virus further. Your worries seem to have precedence.

  83. Bob

    After reading the conversation, I think the term 'faith healer' seems be the most accurate for what you've displayed on here. You've not let out any operational details', given any real or decent answers to questions, or demonstrated anything about the accuracy of your extraordinary claims. You have however asked people to more or less 'just trust me, I'm right', pointed out truths and part-truths that are really besides the point, ignored evidence to the contrary and in the process displayed a twisted form of logic being applied by yourself. The classic behavior of a faith healer. Snake-oil salesman is also an accurate synonym it would seem, as you admit you charge people for your 'information'. Adequate evidence supplied by yourself would properly counter this observation.

    P.S I'm going to die too, that still doesn't mean you must be correct.

  84. susan g

    I'm sorry bluetortilla if you found the ignoramous comment offensive. I find people who prey on people with serious diseases by offering them false hope based on pseudoscience to be offensive. Worse yet, sometimes they divert gulliable and scientifcally illiterate people away from getting the treatment that could help or even save their lives.

    You are right the ELISA tests for the presence of antibodies and can give a false pos, if other infections are present. If the ELISA is positive it is ALWAYS followed up with PCR testing which DOES test for the virus and the viral load. The viral load indicates the extent and amount of infection.

    So you are right about the ELISA test . It is testing for antibodies. But you are wrong about the follow up PCR test. It does identify the actual virus and depending on the amount of virus seen, they can determine the viral load.

  85. susan g

    Hi jackmax
    Haven't been on here lately. I always enjoy reading your comments.

    You ask an interesting question. "How rigorously do the authorities investigate these charlatans?"

    My short answer is not nearly enough! I live in California and supposedly CA is a more friendy state for the quacks to pedal their snake oil. If they get too carried away with their b.s the Mexican boarder isn't far away. Many like Hulda Clark fled south where there are basically no restrictions or oversight.

    I don't know if you've heard of him, but one of the quackyest quacks to ever quack, Robert O Young is standing trial on 18 felony counts of practicing medicine without a license, theft and fraud. Young preaches that an alkaline diet will cure everything from cancer to baldness. He claims all cancer is a liquid acid and ALL dis-ease (beware the word dis-ease) is caused by too much acid in the body. Young is also a germ theory denialist like Doctor Jack on here is. I suspect Jack might be selling the very same woo as Young.

    Anyway, I hope they nail Young this time. The San Diego Sharif's dept. set up a multi agency sting operation to get Young. I think he may be looking at some real jail time on this one. We can only hope. My earlier comment to someone else about these characters diverting patients aways from legitimate medical care really applies to Young. He's directly responsible for the death of several people.

  86. WTC7

    It's not my idea to join the others in discrediting your methods without any closer knowledge of what the methods are. But, after having read all your posts and the posts of people who are challenging you, I must say that the challenging is more than appropriate as you don't provide any concrete response or explanation to the questions asked that could be understood and taken into consideration as valid by the participants to this thread. Me included. I don't reject a priori what you say, but I must admit that your answers lack any concrete convincing points that I (or anybody else here obviously) could use as a starting point for a two-way conversation. You have to understand that you are trying to 'sell' an idea, a new way of understanding health, to the 'unbelievers' and your 'conversion' attempt should correspond the audience/readers. I am all for learning about alternatives (in any imaginable walk of life), but you have to give something more, something that you would actually give for money to your patients. Giving just assurances that your way is the right way to health is not enough for anyone. Sorry.

  87. Doctor Jack

    You're right. This has been nothing but a waste of time for all who've read/responded. Because the medical model is so entrenched and multi-generational, to overcome an almost irreversible mind set, it takes one on one and lots of research. That's just not possible in a public forum. That being said, I've mostly been attacked because my message has been quite unpopular so "kill" the messenger. I appreciate that that's not a tack you said you would take. I did give out one source of qualified information and the response back was also to attack the author, Robert Mendelshon. I would expect nothing less for any other information sources I would provide for free. Admittedly, I have started a few clients, who, after reading just one book, have quit because, even though they would have benefited, such information was such an affront to their ingrained belief system, they weren't willing to go any further and I'm talking about information written by licensed physicians who, through their own research and observations, no longer prescribed drugs but instead offered education to their patients.

    Thanks for your unbiased input but I'm no longer participating here for the above reasons.

  88. WTC7

    In any case, good luck

  89. jackmax

    No what I did was research the information you had given me and then proceeded to ensure that the credibility of your source was of good standing. It would be irresponsible of me to accept anything from anyone on face value as being a reliable source.
    If you were to think that I or anyone else would believe anything you said on face value after it took you over a week to provide us with any references after repeated requests. As well as your repeated insults to all that may not agree with you.
    Now have you got any references that have not had court proceedings for fraud or deception against them. As soon as he admitted that he mislead or lied his credibility was tainted and therefore his results are tainted.

    I admit that he has made some valid points about our health and our reliance of the medical profession for to many minor ailments and injuries. But that does not excuse the fact that he try to use scare mongering tactics to sell his method rather than good honesty and persistence in presenting the facts as they are. By using these tactics he in fact did more damage to his cause than good.

  90. Achems_Razor

    See ya, Jack!

  91. jackmax

    G'day susan g

    Cheers mate, it would appear that the authorities are chasing their tails due to poor laws and legislation nation wide, but that seems to be one of the biggest problems with the federation of the states since it was formed.

    I think one of the biggest problems is these parasites are preying on peoples vulnerabilities at a time when they are at their weakest, if these parasites are seen to be allowed to do this without any recourse for wrong doing, isn't the problem only going to increase in the future.

    I agree Young deserves to do time and I hope they give him the maximum.

  92. over the edge

    The issue with "poor laws and legislation" is that their is a public demand for cures. Any new laws and regulations would also inhibit the development of actual treatments. Look at Burzynski he uses the clinical trial rules to constantly inflict non proven cures on his "patients". But retooling the rules would also hinder the development of actual treatments.

  93. Doctor Jack

    That does seem farfetched but I was assuming that we were talking about birds held in tight confinement, i.e. factory farming and therefore not "in nature" and thus something similar to what I suggested could have potentially upset the collective applecart as these birds are already suffering from disease due to a toxic unnatural environment in every way possible and perhaps it would only take one more enervating influence to put them over the top.

    Case in point: Way back when, I went fishing with a friend of mine. We took his car and he loaded up a bunch of beagle puppies in the trunk. It was in the Spring. We had a good time and the pups got to frolic in the fields playing with each other, swimming and just having a good puppy time. Surely they were exhausted. T.J. loaded them back in his trunk, kept the lid partially open for ventilation and we drove the 50 miles back to town. Within a few days they all died.
    He was told they "got distemper" but I say no. What happened was they were puppies for one thing, not fully developed dogs so that's one strike against them and they were all wet coming home. The air circulation combined with them being soaking wet resulting in them getting way too cold for way too long and they died from hypothermia or getting too cold. I think my observation was/is correct but you may not. This situation had nothing to do with a substance but rather with a condition that was causative of death but it got turned into a viral disease, i.e. distemper, something that can be "treated". That's what The Church of Modern Day Medicine does every change it gets given it has carteBlanche with the press / media where it gets repeated ad nauseam and when something gets repeated with no end in sight, almost everybody just assumes whatever it is is correct but in most cases, it's not. The Church in power at the time of Galileo said the earth was the center of the Universe and everybody in the civilized world believed it. Then Galileo came along with some new technology and said no that was not true. He was convicted and committed to life in prison but was confined to his home for the rest of his life. Just because he was in the minority didn't make him any less correct did it?

  94. Fabien L'Amour

    I have no idea what happened to the puppies and will not come up with any far fetched explanation like you did for the hens and peacock.

    Modern Day medicine is not a church so comparing it to the Catholic church centuries ago is odd thinking at best.

    You still have a lot of scientific evidence for me to consider your situation to be somewhat close to Galileo's situation.

    Anyone can come up with weird explanations for natural phenomenons, without verifiable evidence and repeatable experiments they are not scientific.

  95. jackmax

    G'day Edge'

    Totally understand and agree with you edge.

    Would it not be beneficial for all if the current system was able to be policed with due diligence and public awareness was also made a priority, which into would lessen the demand for these quacks, snake oil salesmen and faith healers,

    I think our education system should be teaching our children to think critically from an early age as that should impact on the hip pocket of these parasites to the point that it is no longer viable for them to peddle there product.

  96. dewflirt

    I don't see why you can't state your sources. If what you do is based on other people's research, you don't own the research and have no right to set yourself up as a human pay wall. All we want to know is where you get your info, not what the info is. Maybe your sources aren't very credible, do you think we would instantly dismiss them? Might happen, I checked out that Mendelsohn chap. Anti vaccine, anti ultrasound because it could cause leukaemia, anti screening for breast cancer. Also saw something about stethoscopes passing diseases between patients, probably possible if you have a dirty doctor , but if as you say, bacteria and viruses don't make people ill, that must be nonsense after all? Maybe all those Ebola patients should just suck it up, go home and hug their babies - and if their babies get sick? Breast feeding will make them better! We have an MP here in England (David Tredinnick) that thinks astrology has a place in mainstream medicine, not only because it predicts the future, but helps people understand themselves. Feeling better and being well are not at all the same thing. My taxes pay this idi*ts wages and he spends them on star charts. I could better spend that cash on a breakfast for one of my homeless friends.

  97. over the edge

    i agree totally. The problem is that large voting groups and many politicians do not agree. Here is an quote from the 2012 republican platform in Texas

    ""Knowledge-Based Education – We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and
    undermining parental authority.""

    And they won the state.

  98. Doctor Jack

    Astrology might be fun but it certainly has no place in science so yeah, you're tax dollars are being wasted. Mendelsohn's correct regarding so called vaccines, unless you believe having embalming fluid and a mercury derivative and other poisons directly injected into your blood stream as healthful, I sure as hell don't. As for ultrasound, as you may know, it works based on vibration and vibrating a developing fetus's organs/tissues, well again, if you don't think that may have a deleterious affect on fragile developing organs/tissue, then, by all means, have at it! Personally, I don't think that's such a good idea. As for the stethoscopes causing diseases, I don't remember reading that and would have to agree, that's nonsense. And screening for breast cancer by taking images with a machine that uses radiation, a very strong cause of cells becoming mutagenic, for the past ten years I've driven to the next town over for dental cleanings/exams because no local dentist will provide services without x-rays. Radiation exposure is dangerous and also cumulative so I limit that to real emergencies like broken bones. As for ebola, there is no ebola virus but there is poverty, polluted drinking water, getting too hot, too cold, toxic chemical exposure from pesticides, medicines and other toxic chemicals, lack of sanitation, living in squalor so yeah people 'get sick'! (The guy that developed the PCR test and was awarded a Nobel Prize even said that he found no proof or scientific paper attesting to HIV = AIDS. And he would probably say the same thing about "ebola virus" not causing ebola though I have not looked him up as this is a fairly recent phenomena.) You would too but it's medical science's job to turn all environmental and malnutrition health scourges into medical problems so that they can be "treated" medically and new drugs can be created and lots of money can be made. Hey, they have to make a living too so you can't fault them for obfuscating the real causes of health problems. As for The Plague that took Europe during The Dark Ages, if you're English, you sure as hell should know why all those people really died. Do you? And how about all those people who perished from "The Spanish Flu at the end of WWI"? Surely there were people in your family or relatives who succumbed to that "nasty virus"! Not all but MOST of medicine is a total shell game and for those who believe in medical "science", god bless them for offering up their bodies/lives on the altar of The Church of Modern Day Medicine!!!

  99. dewflirt

    Formaldehyde in vaccines is diluted out whilst it's being made and we have it in our systems anyway, something to do with metabolism but I'm not going to pretend I know more than that. Common sense tells me that trace amounts of that are less awful than whooping cough or polio. Breast cancer screening begins at 47 here, though if there is family history they will check you out and all screening is being switched from xray to digital mammography. I'm just going to leave it at that, I don't really know where you're going with the Ebola/HIV thing but I suspect it's a slippery road and it's all down hill. I don't want to go there with you thanks. You're saying dangerous things, probably to susceptible, worried, vulnerable people. Whether you promote a treatment you've invented or suggest that your customers (poorly people!?!) eschew real medicine in favour of anything else you are doing them harm. You still didn't give any sources so either you don't have any other than the dodgy doctor or you know they're nonsense. Shame on you.

  100. Doctor Jack

    Whooping cough and polio are two examples of health disorders that are caused by diet and environmental causes and NOT by viruses and/or microbes. It's all about removing causes so there are no more effects, i.e. polio, whooping cough. So being "vaccinated" to address these symptoms complexes is not only dangerous as hell but has nothing to do with addressing the causes. But again, there' s no money to be made by addressing causes so you can't blame medical science they have to make a living too!

  101. dewflirt

    You're wrong.

  102. WTC7

    Sorry, what are environmental causes exactly in this case?

  103. jackmax

    Cheers Edge,

    I have many thoughts and questions to ask, however I know this is the wrong thread.
    but thank you for the info.

  104. Doctor Jack

    I wish you were right!

  105. Doctor Jack

    The word 'polio' is derived from the Greek word 'polios' meaning 'gray' and 'myelitis' referring to 'matter' describing inflammation of the spinal chord and brain stem. There are many substances that can cause inflammation of any and all body parts most definitely including vaccines, which, by any other name are simply poisons. (If you believe vaccines are beneficial, you have your homework cut out for you.) Additionally, back in 1948, a physician did correlation studies between the incidence of childhood paralysis noticing that there was a significant upswing in the number of cases in the summer time in the U.S. At the time he was serving as a nutritional expert for the U.S. Veterans Administration at one of the V.A. hospitals. He issued an urgent warning that heavy consumption of refined sugar products - candy, pop, ice cream - were linked to adolescent paralysis. The results of his campaign was that the number of polio cases in his area dropped 90% in a single year from 2,498 in 1948 to only 229 in 1949. Also these products contained DDT pesticide residue that was commonly used back then before it was banned in the U.S. I think you should know how poisonous DDT is. So no virus unless you define that word by its original meaning which is the word 'poison' or as one dictionary defines it, "poison, as in snake venom..." If you define the word virus to mean poison, they yes absolutely polio was caused by a virus but not a microorganism. The word has been redefined within the last 30 or 40 years to mean micro organism hasn't it but that's not the original meaning.
    How ironic that once people believed disease was caused by large things you couldn't see like demons and evil spirits and now they believe it's caused by small things, viruses/bacteria, you cannot see.

  106. dewflirt

    They also blamed cats, blueberries, Italian immigrants, pasteurised milk and house flies. My uncle had polio, caught it in the 50's in Ireland. There's an article in The independent (a British paper, online) called Polio: The Deadly Summer of 1956, you should read it. It explains things very nicely.

  107. Bob

    Your last sentence clearly reveals how you've justified to yourself that what you do is acceptable. 'Making a living' in not a valid reason or excuse to become a parasite on desperate, sick people. Even if your claims were 100% accurate and Germ Theory was incorrect, the way you make claims and offer 'chances' with no evidence, as long as they pay you, makes you the parasite conman that the people on here have pegged you as.

  108. jackmax

    Whooping cough is caused by diet and environmental causes, how exactly?

    and if not a virus, why and how is it so contagious to all that have not been vaccinated even when in a clean sterile environment without breathing protection on.

    If vaccines don't work how is it that since the pertussis vaccine, combined with diphtheria and tetanus toxoids (DTP) was introduced in the 1940 the cases of whooping cough decreased to the point that by 1976 it was reported to be a 99% decrease of incidents of the decease in the US.?

    Since the early '80 the incidents of the decease has begun to increase and has risen steadily, with epidemics typically occurring every three to five years in the US.

    My opinion on that is that more children are not getting vaccinated against these deceases anymore due to the "faith healers" like yourself have manipulated the minds of the weak and uneducated people to think that all vaccines are dangerous and should not be taken.

    How can any educated person deny all the evidence about these vaccines and then proceed to "line his on pocket" from the most vulnerable by methods that have not gone through the same scrutiny as required by the legitimate medical science and/or practice.

  109. dewflirt

    I am ;)

  110. Doctor Jack

    That's called sarcasm Bob.
    The Germ Theory is just that, a theory. If it was a fact, it would be called Germ Fact.
    Only one person has asked for a refund. She was Russian and could speak English but had difficulty reading it. I gave her her money back as reading is a big part of the educational process of health recovery. Your calling me names is childish and certainly does not correlate with my educational approach to health recovery.

  111. over the edge

    Do you know what a scientific theory is? It never gets upgraded to a fact. In science a theory is the explanation that best fits the facts.

  112. Doctor Jack

    Sir, it's you who have been manipulated. You have not considered the source of your information. The very concept of and origin of so called vaccine is based in ignorance and superstition. You cannot be poisoned into health with drugs euphemistically called medicine. I have not taken even as much as an aspirin in 25 years, I am a senior citizen, my health is fine and I have not lost any function. Other than two accidents, I have not needed anything medical unlike most my age.
    I taught public school for several years. Based on your superstitious beliefs that one "catches diseases", why did I not get sick, not even once being around all those snot nosed kids? Why were certain teachers sick and out a lot, teachers who refused my offer of assistance? I was offering to throw someone a life line who's sinking in quicksand and their refusing same. . . Oh well...

  113. Doctor Jack

    I don't know about other areas of science but I do know that when it comes to medical science, the "best" explanation is the one that researchers are paid to come up with.

  114. over the edge

    proof please. That is a terrible claim against a group of people. Some of them i know very well. And your statement in no way makes up for the complete lack of knowledge you have portrayed towards the discipline of scientific inquiry

  115. Vlatko

    You yourself don't understand the difference between scientific theory and a fact (which are the very foundation of the scientific method) and yet you're selling your snake oil in the form of scientifically informed counsel.

    Now it is undoubtedly clear that you're deluded (sorry for the name calling but it had to be done) and hazardous for your environment because you prey on the gullible to make a buck.

    It is also unfortunate that there's no restrictive law against your kind because with your actions you're certainly not helping people but hurting them.

  116. WTC7

    Dr Jack, I believe that those who truly care about changing predominant paradigms are forthcoming with the actual methods on how to improve one's life & health. I must say that I am getting a bit boted with this verbal masturbation without any ending as to what exactly are the secrets that you are hiding in your pocket for those who can pay for it. If you truly cared about spreading this method of healing among your indoctrinated fellow humans, you would have been much more concrete about it please don't tell me that you cannot share some of the knowledge you gained over the thousands of hours of your research if you really cared about that. As far as I am concerned, you are a history in this redpect as it appears that you excludively want to promote your health services for those who would pay for them. I seriously don't understand why would anyone continue bothering with discussing with you. Seems that you enjoy this game very much (since you had decided to leave the thread a few days ago).

  117. Doctor Jack

    It doesn't matter what or who my "proof" is, you will discredit it. Wouldn't you agree researchers write proposals for Grants? Would you agree there's competition for limited Grant money? Would you agree, scientific researchers have to eat and they also have families to support so they have to earn a living? If they want to beat out others and be awarded Grant money, they have to fudge a bit on their proposals. I won't use the word lie because that might be offensive to you since you know some of them and they are obviously above reproach. I mean friends of yours would never lie. I have one video where the physician talking about AIDS looks straight into the camera and says ..." that their, (research scientists), PROOF is the excellence of their theory, that HIV = AIDS even though simple observation clearly shows it's lifestyle, diet and environment that are the true causes. That's just one example but a big one as you and just about everybody else believes HIV causes AIDS right? Lots of people have died unnecessarily because they were under that illusion just as you are and everybody you know.

    The guy who invented the PCR test has gone on record as stating that he's found no evidence or no one who will attest to HIV causes AIDS as a hard fact and this guy was awarded a Nobel Prize! He's also a surfer so the powers-that-be tried to discredit him scientifically because he likes to surf because "everybody knows, you can't be a serious credible scientist if you like to surf or maybe ride a motorcycle or go for walks in the woods, etc."

    And who provides these Grants? Most are tax payer funded through government agencies such as NIH, CDC, NIAID and so forth. Guess who they are looking after? It's not the American people. It's private industry where the revolving door is wide open to these cretins. The biggest lobby in D.C. is the pharmaceutical industry. And then there are the pharmaceutical companies who are looking for "scientific evidence" of the credibility of whatever result they want and they get it too. Medical scientific researchers are a dime a dozen...
    Every year a quarter of a million people die from medical treatments in the U.S.. That's 2,250,000 every 10 years. Why isn't that paraded in front of the American public by mainstream media? Surely that's more horrific than so called ebola but you don't hear about that do you? Could it be that the media is also sucking at the medical money spigot and would never jeopardize a huge portion of their advertising revenue. So what if a few hundred thousand people die a year from iatrogenia. Most of them are adults and are responsible for making their own personal decisions. Too bad, we all have to die some day anyway. So what!

  118. over the edge

    You state "It doesn't matter what or who my "proof" is, you will discredit it.". How would you know that as you haven't provided any. Provide a peer reviewed recent article published in a reputable journal and put me to the test. If you give me something vague , a personal testimonial, an old study or refer me to a non peer reviewed book you are right. But that IS science for you. As for researchers and their habits. They along with those who pay them get these diseases as well.. Are you implying they would rather die than expose these "lies"? You imply much. make baseless claims and blow a lot of smoke. But as of yet you have refuted no arguments or provided any proof.

  119. Doctor Jack

    I have provided a couple of references and they were shot down. How about The Starfield Report. It was discredited because "no one would be interested in reading it". No kidding, that was the logic of their reasoning. She had all the "right" credentials as well as impeccable integrity and reputation but her report was not PC...

    BTW, you're right, all these researchers are just as likely to become ill as anyone else who has never studied the causes of health as they are all too busy studying disease and their theoretical causes. There are causes of disease but there are also causes of health. You reap what you sow...

  120. over the edge

    Again a peer reviewed reference from a well respected journal please

  121. Doctor Jack

    Dr. Barbara Starfield was a medical health professional of the highest repute. She published dozens of papers in prestigious medical journals like JAMA. She had the highest of accolades and dozens of awards for excellence in the field of health. Anybody reading this can easily check her professional status simply by bringing her up on wikipedia. If she doesn't pass your medical litmus test, peer reviewed or not, that's all I'm giving you.

    Another way of saying 'peer reviewed' is does someone pass the approval process by the information gatekeepers. If they do, then they are part of the club. If they don't, they aren't being PC and therefore, are not offered membership. I know others who were in the club, took subsequent contrary positions on highly charged political diseases and were drummed out of the club even though their position was the correct position, the truth be damned! Are you truly that naive that you believe politics don't play a role in peer review outcomes, promotions, studies, grants and so forth? How long have you been on planet earth?

    So if you reject Dr. Starfield, you're doing what I told you others of your ilk have already done. I give references, they invalidate them. That's what you will be doing with Dr. Starfield if you reject someone who devoted a lifetime in the medical field as having no validity and you would be in a very small minority sir. Her credentials are impeccable.

  122. over the edge

    Now we are getting somewhere. Please point me to the paper(s) of Dr. Barbara Starfield that substantiate your claims?

  123. pwndecaf

    You have on several posts stated that you "came across information" and spent 25,000 hours of research after that.

    What was this inspirational "information" that started you down this path?

    Sorry if you answered this already - you can be a bit wordy without saying much. I'm not asking for trade secrets.

  124. pwndecaf

    Who puts puppies in a trunk? They probably died of carbon monoxide poisoning.

  125. Bob

    I did not say it wasn't sarcasm D.Jack. I was talking about the idea/information contained within what you have communicated. It does indicate how your mind works on the subject. The terms I used were not intended as ad hominem, they are accurate descriptions in my opinion, describing a person that does what you say you do. Talking about you personally is obviously silly, as I don't know you. But I can comment on your stated actions, and provide my opinion on what you've said you do, and what term/description best fits that.
    You weren't or aren't a Christian too by the way are you? Your misunderstanding of what a Scientific Theory is versus the layman's use of the term is the exact same mistake many of them willingly make, and is yet another display that not only do you not understand what you are talking about, but your claims of 'higher knowledge' on the points raised don't fit with your blogs here.
    Sorry if you don't like the terms that best suits your actions (as opposed to you) in my opinion, but if the shoe fits.... giving a refund if asked is the correct thing to do. Would you continue to if it became a regular occurrence, more than just the once?

  126. Bob

    If your first sentence is accurate, "It doesn't matter what or who my "proof" is, you will discredit it.", than that is your problem right there. If all your sources and evidence can be discredited, then obviously your position has no credibility. If the method of science is applied correctly, it doesn't matter WHO makes an argument, it's the strength of the supporting evidence and logic that a case is built and judged on. If all your evidence is bunk, than clearly your hypothesis is incorrect. If your supporting evidence and logic is sound, you have a good argument. You've not provided a good one so far Dr.Jack, by your own admission your sources can be discredited.

  127. pwndecaf

    I think you should apologize to the late Dr. Starfield. I see no connection between her legacy and your claims, except perhaps the best chance for a good outcome is to stay healthy. No kidding!

    From the little bit I read, she promoted primary care for everyone, rich or poor, rather than waiting until a specialist (secondary care) was needed.

  128. Doctor Jack

    Which claims? Be more specific. And BTW, Dr. Starfield is who I referred you to in the previous missive where you said you needed a "peer reviewed...".

  129. Doctor Jack

    Thank you! At least there's one person on here that doesn't have their thinking done for them. I didn't see your post until today 10/31/14. there's hope afterall!

  130. jackmax

    You taught in public schools for several years you have stated. Was that at the elementary level or in higher education (uni) and what subjects did you teach?

    The person you offered a lifeline to would it be fair to say they knew you at a professional level and they would have already had some knowledge of your anti-health system views?

    As the vaccine for whooping cough is gives to infants, it would be fair to say that you did not make that choice your parents did and would it be fair to assume that you were vaccinated with the full consent of your parents.
    That being the case it would also safe that your parents also ensured that you were immunized with all other childhood vaccines that were available at that time.
    So if that is correct it was your parents common sense that has insured your good health from the beginning and no all this gibba gabba you have been sprooking for the last ten days or more.

    So there is a big chance that your parents saved your life by these same vaccines you are now trying to say are bad for our health.

    You say that it is I that has been manipulated why is that, would it be that I'm a skeptic and I will not submit myself to be lead down the garden path by a conman like yourself or is it the fact that that is your only argument you have left as all other avenues have been exposed as the BS it actually is.

  131. jackmax

    At this stage any of your claims will do...

  132. over the edge

    I do need peer reviewed. I asked for "Again a peer reviewed reference from a well respected journal please" and you responded with "Dr. Barbara Starfield.....". As for "Which claims?" my first reply to you contained three. Paper(s) addressing those would be great.

  133. jackmax

    You are a liar, as your first comment is to Fabian after he replied to sharpstuff, eleven days ago.
    So you have the same dishonesty traits as your Dr Robert Mendelshon, but you already knew that hey!!

  134. Doctor Jack

    OK, I didn't know you were jumping around. A friend turned me on to a 2 hour lecture whereby the speaker was saying that it wasn't bacteria and viruses but rather diet and lifestyle and environment that causes disease. Well of course I thought he was cookieputs but within the context of his lecture, what he said seemed to make sense. Of course I thought if what he was saying was true, then everything I had learned all my life would have to be not true so I set out on a mission to find out if he knew what he was talking about. And no, not everything I studied was written by a peer reviewed medically trained whatever. If that were the case, I'd still be waiting for information as they don't teach much in the way of diet and lifestyel factors having any part in the cause and effect paradigm of disease causation. Anyway, he was absolutely correct, resulting in my making modifications in my way of life and also working with others who were actually having health problems and had done just about everything there is but got limited results. Somehow they came across me and got much better. I would say the recovery rate in my patients is about 90%. And while most have gotten much better, many have gotten better, went back to their old unhealthy ways and all their maladies returned. Of course that's not something I have any control over. This is all free will do it yourself healthcare. There's nothing in the way of therapy they need outside of their own self ability to heal and they don't need to keep seeing me other than for support. And no this is not faith healing as in some sort of religious belief deal but yes it is about having a helluva lot more confidence in your body's ability to heal itself where you're pretty much just along for the ride in most cases. The way I interpret symptoms is real different than the way they are interpreted by a medically trained personnel. With them, everything's a major catastrophe - something has gotten into your body a germ or virus and is causing your symptoms but that's just not so. So I just got lucky and got busy doing self directed research on my own. This is purely a biological approach - the body reigns supreme. So one of the things I learned or came to learn over time is that everything and I do mean everything that was done to me by my pediatrician was incorrect and life threatening. Did he know that? Hell no! He was trained in medicine school in the 40s and was acting in accord with his training. I always liked him but, of course, I wasn't crazy about all the injections. Did this affect my health? Of course. But I am very lucky that it didn't cause overt brain damage or chronic damage anywhere else or even death. I was just lucky. I do have mal occlusions in both my knee structures but this has never caused any functional problems.

    Anyway, that's the long winded answer.

  135. pwndecaf

    Dr. Mendelsohn lived to the ripe, old age of 61.

    Physician - heal thyself!

  136. Doctor Jack

    There ya go! That's probably more likely than what I came up with. (This was in the late 60s way before SUVs. It was a four door Plymouth.)

  137. Doctor Jack

    She was the only one.
    Maybe there are some semantic problems here I don't know. But I would concur that there are words and terms and concepts that we both use but they do not have the same meaning to me as they do to you. For example, the word 'disease' means something entirely different to me than it does to you. Same for the word 'infection'. As to religious affiliation, I have none though what I teach can be view through a religious prism but that's not a part of how I teach it as it's just not necessary. Physiology works the same whether viewed through a divine creator or not. I teach my clients how to correctly interpret symptoms which is very different from how medicine school students are taught to interpret the exact same symptoms. My approach does not require drug intervention or most surgeries or even alternative treatments. This is not faith healing this is biological healing...big diff

  138. Doctor Jack

    Anybody can be discredited but being discredited is not valid proof of discreditation. And besides, who made those that are in charge of creditation credible, ad infinitum.
    The proof of creditation is not the credibility of one's informational or educational sources but the real world RESULTS of those who've chosen to follow and implement such information.

  139. Doctor Jack

    You're totally clueless dude. I don't like the gutter your posts have gone into so I'm no longer messaging with you.

  140. jackmax

    Don't like honesty?
    I have done a little research on you and it could be said that Dr Jack M. E. that you will condenm any and all that have disagreed with you.
    Here is a extract from your disclaimer " The lifestyle you learn and master is not a substitute for medical
    treatment. For any medical problems it is important that you have seen
    your physician and have had any medical treatment completed or underway."

    Does your disclaimer actually show that all you have said about the medical profession is nothing less than self promotion and your desire to sell your product.

  141. jackmax

    You have listed as one of your occupations as a gardener and by all accounts with all the crap you have dribbled here your verbal diarrhea would make extremely good fertilizer.

  142. Doctor Jack

    The number of people dying annually from medical treatments came from the DVD "America Addicted" produced by an MD. Dr. Starfield is referenced within that presentation. Medical treatments is listed as the third largest killer of Americans after Cardiovascular anomalies and number two Cancer.

    Some of the information about AIDS I've been influenced by is a video by Dr. Gary Null entitled AIDS: The Untold Story. It was produced in the early 90s I believe. You can watch it on Youtube.

    The gentleman who said he's found no credible evidence HIV causes AIDS is Dr. Kary Mullis, nobel prize recipient for inventing the PCR test. And he's not the only one of high credentials who knows how much B.S. that was and still is. Ebola is the new AIDS and just as bogus. Yes people are sick and yes people are dying but they are NOT dying from a "virus" from a bat that "jumped" species. If you believe that, you've watched too many Indiana Jones movies...

  143. over the edge

    okay I give up. Arguments from authority are not a substitute for evidence. These people may be brilliant and I am not claiming they are not. But I hold Newton and his discoveries in high regard. That in no way means his claims concerning alchemy were true. Unless you can provide something peer reviewed for me to study I will no longer be responding

  144. jackmax

    What are your meaning to both decease and infection?

  145. Bob

    Drop the first sentence and I completely agree. Results, with a proper understanding of exactly why, is what is important. One could call it repeatable evidence with a fitting theory, or another name is the scientific method. It is not about the people involved, it is about the argument, sound logic and evidence with predictive power is the aim. If your sources are sound, their argument will speak for itself. So declaring them discredited beforehand certainly is not confidence inspiring, but in fact the opposite.

  146. Bob

    You may be correct, but that is impossible for me to see how on here so far. By asking everyone to just take you at your word, you are asking us to just believe without adequate evidence. Which is faith by definition. Have you, and if so how, considered that obviously identifying and correcting diet and lifestyle is recommended by modern medicine, especially dietitians. Which will help if patients are not already doing that, and that the rest of what you see may be an expression of the placebo effect?

  147. dewflirt

    Well, ten minutes in wiki told me all I needed to know about Dr Kary Mullis. From Nobel Prize winner to climate change denier, aids denier, and a belief in astrology - thought you agreed that that had no place in medicine? Not sure what to make of his glowing green raccoon - lsd flashback or did he really see an alien? Aids research isn't even his thing so no matter how educated his guess, it's still a guess. Gary Null is just a fraudster, likes to hob-nob with some of the people that advised Thabo Mbeki, a man credited with causing the deaths of 300 000 people, give or take. I wonder how comfortably that knowledge rests in the minds of his advisers?

  148. dewflirt

    Laughed my socks off! Like the hat btw :)

  149. Doctor Jack

    I read the article you referenced.

    If a disease is communicable, spread by what you call 'virus', why on earth would disease be discriminatory? The article indicates it was mostly adolescents who "were getting it". Are not we all human beings? So why would what you think of as an infectious agent discriminate within the same species based on age? And, in the "Fever Hospitals", why weren't hospital personnel coming down with polio in large numbers? The article did not indicate or state that that was the case. Now the truth of the matter is I wasn't there so there are surely factors that I am not aware of that could have been causative. Since disease is almost always multifactorial, one has to be a bit of a sleuth to ferret out causes. And BTW, I mostly agree with you on the ridiculous other causes the disease was blamed on - cats, blueberries, Italian immigrants, house flies except for pasteurized milk. The last one could have been one of the contributing factors and even blueberries depending on how they were grown and fertilized. If they were wild growing in the fields untainted by man, then no but if they were cultivated, they could be a possibility. One must not leave any stone unturned.

    It's easier to deduce what the cause(s) are of a lot of people in a specific area who become symptomatic becoming that way if you're not under the spell of contagion as that completely clouds one's thinking and obfuscates the more likely culprits. In this situation you'd have to look at what, if anything, younger people, children might be doing/exposed to that people of older ages are not. First off, the article indicated that the disease seemed to spread faster in the summer months. What might children be doing in the summer months that they are not doing during the colder months? What might children be eating during the summer months that they might not be consuming during the colder months? What might their typical diets be like? What treatments were they subjected to in the Fever Hospitals? These are the types of questions you need to be asking. You should read the article in detail and others that reference the same places and time period and ask these types of questions. You may come up with a new hypothesis much different than the viral one as offered in that particular article.

    And BTW, the article that I referenced about refined sugar products having a causal link to adolescent paralysis went on to say...
    "Aroused by the effect that the doctor's warning campaign had had on their summer sales, the soft drink distributors and the candy manufacturers came in the following year with a statewide promotional campaign, featuring free samples and other promotions. By 1950, the Polio toll had risen once more to its 1948 level." Now you might believe that refined sugar ladened soft drinks, candy and ice cream play no role physiological dysfunction but there would be a lot of people in this day and age who would state otherwise, not only about refined sugar but many other substances most people typically consume on a regular basis.

    So put your thinking cap on, investigate possible dietary, environmental and lifestyle factors that could explain why all these kids were becoming crippled.

  150. pwndecaf

    Oh, my! More socks for dewflirt!

  151. pwndecaf

    I saw a documentary last night that clearly showed a few people cured by doing the holy spirit hokey pokey, I kid you not!

  152. dewflirt

    You didn't read it properly. It wasn't their age that mattered, it was that they were predominantly middle/upper class. The lower classes were exposed to the virus as babies and still carried immunity from their mothers, sort of vaccinated by birth. I don't know why you think working class kids in 1950's Southern Ireland would be stuffing their little faces with sweets and ice cream. I know the dangers of refined sugars, I expect most people do, but link that in any way to polio is both foolish and dangerous. You pick and choose the science that suits, you are deliberate with your disinformation and you apparently have little regard for anything other than the weight of your wallet. I honestly don't believe that you believe a word you say. Your customers would benefit more from a trip some end of the pier, five bob palm reader.

  153. Doctor Jack

    Looks can be deceiving huh... I remember back in the 70s a buddy and I went off for a weekend camping trip in the mountains but we got rained out and decided that there was no reason to hang out in the woods being miserable so we broke camp and headed home. Well we got down the road and on the outskirts of a rural community we came across a "Revival Meeting", a big tent, people sitting in chairs and listening to Reverend Cure-all performing "miracles" on the stage. Well we had nothing but time, it wasn't that late so we decided WTF, let's stop and check out this charade. It was "Sister Loreli, curing people with her left hand and performing miracles with her right. One at a time, people bent over with connective tissue disorders and so forth hobbled up to the stage where they coud be "cured". After doing her hocus pocus, she added this old codger how he felt to which he replied, "Well, I guess I fee better." and then hobbled off the stage. Talk about pathetic! It was good for a laugh and then we moved on.

    Call me everything in the book as the other responders have but I BELIEVE that health is caused by healthy living, period and that lowered health, what's caused disease, is caused by unhealthy living. The problem is that most folks just aren't all that knowledgeable about what it takes to stay healthy and therefore in homeostasis and though there is some good information floating around out there for free, it's not really enough. And besides, a couple of things - we all die so why not just do what you want since it doesn't really matter anyway. And number two, why bother since you're probably going to catch something and die anyway so why not just do what you like. Well number one is obviously correct but number two isn't. If I can't convince people I know right where I live, I'm certainly not going to convince those I don't know on line!

    I guess since number two isn't going to happen, regarding health, the best thing to do if health really matters to an individual, is to live as healthy a life as posslble, no drugs / drinking / smoking / clean fresh diet / lots of sleep / some physical activity that you like doing from gardening to bike riding, etc. Live as emotionally, chemically and physically stress free as possible.

  154. Doctor Jack

    Well if they were predominantly middle and upper class, wouldn't if follow that they could more easily afford sweet treats? Your explanation for lower class babies carrying immunity is nothing more than medspeak. No one is immune from that which is harmful.Surely in practically every small town there are stores that sell soda pop, candy and ice cream and in the summer, many communities have little trucks that go around in neighborhoods ringing a bell so that the kids will beg their parents for change so they can buy the junk they are peddling.

    How do you explain the article I quoted about the numbers of paralysis going down 90% when parents are educated/warned to keep their kids off all these sugary slops and the numbers going way back up when the sweets industry fought back by giving all their crap away for free? You don't think there's a cause and effect relationship? I sure as hell do. Refined sugar is a drug and causes all kind of health problems. And the article indicated that the number of cases of "polio" went much higher in the summer. Why on earth would there be a correlation between paralysis and time of year? Is it because the "virus" is a warm weather "virus" and is dormant in the colder months? I'm guessing that's going to be a possible medspeak answer you would offer.

    There were surely other factors that also contributed. I saw one in that article that just glared out at me as being a significant cause of serious health problems. Even for people such as yourself who believe in contagion wholeheartedly should easily have been able to spot it. Re-read that article and see if you catch it...

    If I were such a pariah in my community, deliberately misleading people and separating them from their money, you know word spreads fast in rural America. I would have been run out of town on a rail years ago. Most of what they are learning comes from licensed health practitioners alive and deceased, probably half are/were MDs but not necessarily PC.

  155. Samuel Morrissey

    I'll explain it, correlation does not equal causation. Now if you have any source for your assertions that vaccines do not work, I charge you to share it please, now.

  156. pwndecaf

    Not much to argue with when you put it that way. I wouldn't make such a definitive statement that "disease is caused by unhealthy living." I would say generally (edit) stems from instead.

    Loved watching the holy spirit hokey pokey, however! That, and the more usual hand to the forehead, this is where I fall backwards and say, "Healed!"

  157. dewflirt

    I'm not going to explain anything, what's the point? You won't read it properly anyway.

  158. Doctor Jack

    Fine but if all other conditions remain the same except for the significantly lowered or significantly increased consumption of a specific toxic substance, in this example refined sugar, and there's a significant decrease or increase in a pathogenic human condition, it would certainly lead one to heavily lean in the direction of their being correlation and causation. If it looks like a duck...

    There is plenty of information available on the vagaries of so called vaccines. Just google or youtube same. Surely there are plenty of books too. I could give you titles of some I've read or viewed but they would all be discredited as not having been "peer reviewed" as if medically trained personnel would disapprove of something so sacrosanct as vaccines to The Church of Modern Day Medicine. Blasphemy!!! How dare you!!! That would be as ludicrous as some one in an average church challenging the concept of monotheism. If you're earning a decent living from 'the system' you are not going to jeopardize your career over something so trivial. Look at drug mfg. - they are taken to court over people dying from using their drugs, the drug companies lose their cases, pay big fines only to continue to sell the same drugs, why? because they are not sued for the total amount they are bringing in so they are still making billions. They would have to be sued for more than they are worth plus future profits to get them to stop manufacturing. They could care less that people are dying from their products. They don't consider that their problem. Trust your doctor? I don't think so! They're just medical school hypnotized medical drones regurgitating all the crap they learned that's designed to make the most money. If medical care was so fantastic, alternative healthcare providers wouldn't have sprung up all over the world like mushrooms after a spring rain but they have because people in larger numbers have become increasingly disenchanted with most medical approaches to health problems.

    Try using your common sense instead of what somebody else has said and written. Remember unless you've gone to school to learn about health, everything you've learned about healthcare cost you nothing and that's about what it's worth - nothing. Those that promote concepts in the news want you to think a certain way because it benefits their bottom line big time. They spend billions on advertising so they also influence the content of the "the news". It's sole aim is to make sure you do not question their commercially motivated concepts. Example: If so called ebola is so deadly then why have some people who have been pronounced with ebola virus, have completely recovered and no longer "have ebola"? Because people develop fevers, they rest, the fever runs its course, they are restored to homeostasis, end of story, no drugs required. How on God's green earth would injecting toxic substances directly into the bloodstream of a living animal be beneficial to health? To believe such as act would have any benefit is totally insane. You might as well say being hit in the head with an axe is beneficial to health. Why do you think kids cry when they know they are going to be injected with a needle? What you are witnessing is nature knowing what's best for itself instead of fugging brainwashed adults doing "what's best" for their child. Their unsophisticated kids instinctually know way better than they do!

  159. Doctor Jack

    I adamantly state that Health is only produced by healthful living. And that lack of health or lowered health is caused by a lack of healthful living. It really is that simple. Why? First off I'm over the whole contagion thing so that leaves substances, influences and circumstances that can contribute to lowered health. I also know that disease should be spelled dis ease because this word is not a noun but a verb, a process, a lack of ease just as dissatisfaction is a lack of satisfaction but when you say 'disease' it makes it sound like a thing, a noun and not a process. You're familiar with Florence Nightingale right. Well the doctors were killing more soldiers in the field hospitals behind the lies than were dying in combat on the front lines during the Crimea War. She shows up throws open the windows, provides water, daily bathing, clean sheets, regularly changing of bandages and so forth that we today would take as common sense. She absolutely knew that diseases were not THINGS like cats or dogs but CONDITIONS like clean or dirty. She cleaned up these wards and the men began to recover from their battle caused conditions. She probably also got the "doctors" to limit drugging as much as possible. I mean I would want morphine too if I had a leg that was sticking out of my head. There are definitely exceptions when it comes to medical training and they mostly have to do with accidents and injuries, birth defects and some corrective surgeries. Vaccines most definitely do NOT fit into any of the above categories...She freekin nailed it and that was a hundred years ago.

  160. Doctor Jack

    Fine! There was a huge big red flag in that report that apparently you missed. HUGE!!! Oh well...

  161. jackmax

    You make some extremely big claims about a lot of things yet nothing to back them up.
    "Why do you think kids cry when they know they are going to be injected with a needle?"
    Go on dazzle us with your BS and tell us why?
    My six year old son told me that the needle hurts.
    When asked if he was scared of the medicine he said no just the needle.....
    So your argument seems to have been shot down by a six year old.

  162. Doctor Jack

    Dr. Mendelsohn was an extraordinary human being. He was a practicing pediatrician. His credentials are unimpeachable. He practiced medicine for about 30 years. He was national director of Project Head Start Medical Consultation Service, Chairman of the Medical Licensing Committee for the State of Illinois, associate professor of preventive medicine
    and community health in The School of Medicine of The University of Illinois and the recipient of numerous awards for excellence in medicine and medical instruction. He also was a medical heretic and was personally responsible for having several hundred pediatric medicines removed from the market. He believed that the greatest danger to your own health is usually from your doctor.

    I would like to add that personally, I have not been injected with anything since my Freshman year in college back in the 60s. My parents, thinking they were protecting me from all those people I would be coming into contact with at a major university made sure I got a Flu shot. A couple weeks after I was on campus and vaccinated, I had the worst "flu" of my life undoubtedly caused by this chemical cocktail that was injected directly into my bloodstream with no chance of these toxic chemicals being shunted off through the digestive system. If "medicine" is so important and I haven't had any for half a century, how come I'm still alive? While those my age are members of AARP so they can get discounts on their prescriptions, I throw their mailings in the trash can at the post office.

  163. Samuel Morrissey

    But nothing. You are not aware of all other variables. I want a source from you that backs up your assertions about vaccines, or an admission that you have none, please. I am not interested in your waffling.

  164. dewflirt

    Morning Samuel, keep kicking myself for sticking with this conversation and for getting so irate. Love to see a solid, non preachy reply but I don't think you'll get one. Good luck ;)

  165. Samuel Morrissey

    Good morning Dewflirt, I expect you are right. Vlatko, Achems, Edge and many others have called it correctly I think. There is very little point, but it might serve to highlight how full of hot air some folks are.

    Cheers :)

  166. michelg67

    Hello Susan,

    before I actually say what i was thinking of pointing out to you, first a question: Are you a Doctor, a specilist in religion, gays, the moonlanding, a scientist and as far i can see an expert in law too? Are you all these things packed into one?

    I am aksing for I saw that you were accusing a religious person not to be able to see the truth, due to their religious doctrine. (I quote: Lets not face it! That is your opinion as dictated to you by your interpretation of your religion.) You know what, I may in fact even agree with that. I just feel that the difference between you and me is that I implement the same thought on myself. In other words, you are equally conditioned to believe something, by whatever believe system that stipulates your doctrine. If you accept this as true for another person, you have no other option but to see that you are victim to the same rule. only the believe system changes. You use a lot of words like: dumbass, quaker, some old coot, and what else not. I even read that you accused someone for being bitter because perhaps some treatment didnt work and hense he or she (do not remember now) would support or promote alternative treatments. heavy stuff Susan.

    But first things first: Are you all these things packed into one? Oh and one more question: Show me a traditional medicine that cures (read CURES...) Then if you wish I could tell you a thing or 2 about cancer being an old persons disease (as you stated and, which, is an incredibly ignorant, harmful and hiddeous statement to make). I accept that you are trying to help. I am pretty sure that is your intention anyways. But, as often is the case, you do not help anyone or anything by making statements as you do.
    peace and Love to you...

  167. Bob

    Hmm, if vaccines do not work, and there is no such thing as 'Germs', then how do you explain immunity? Either via vaccination or previous exposure, people (and animals) do get immunities to contagions. If it was mostly just 'diet and lifestyle' as you claim, then everyone that is healthy should be immune to everything classed as a disease, or illness, or sickness, or whatever term you wish to apply, as opposed to having consumed a poison.

    You also need to explain the reason why some vaccines cannot be administered to people that have already had exposure to certain contagions, for example the Coxiella burnetii vaccination. Why do people that have been exposed to Cb in the past have a negative reaction to the vaccination, while people that haven't been exposed don't show a reaction other then becoming immune. (apart from the expected % that show an allergic reaction). That does not make sense with your 'No Germ' hypothesis. It does with Germ Theory.

  168. pwndecaf

    Not surprisingly, I found this on a site called Quackwatch. It is from a review of his "Confessions of a Medical Heretic" book.

    "After nearly decimating all systems and people that make up the rubric of modern medical practice, Dr. Mendelsohn puts forth a naive collection of personal notions, hardly new and mostly ethereal, that constitute his "New Medicine.'' As the replacement for all past medical discovery, including the body thermometer, we are subjected to exhortations that we should all love one another, that the home is the temple of all good things, and that marriage and bearing children will counteract most depressions and other feelings of ill health. Such are the simplistic solutions of a pediatrician who has apparently labored too long in the nursery and not experienced sufficient exposure to the real adult world."

    Joseph M. Miller, M.D., M.P.H
    ACSH News & Views, March/April, 1981

  169. Doctor Jack

    Quackwatch invalidates everything that challenges medical dogma so that's no surprise. The irony is that they are the real quacks! My research has covered a wide variety of sources that have all pointed in the same direction - that with the exception of accidents, injuries, emergencies, birth defects and some but not all corrective surgeries, almost all other medical treatments are incorrect in practice and wrong in theory. As preposterous as that sounds, it happens to be true. Once old man Rockefeller got involved in medicine prior to 1900, with his world manipulating oil fortune, medical care took a sharp left turn for the worse and has kept going in that direction ever since. If medical science was so fantastic, there would be no market for alternative practitioners as people would be content with the medical approach but they're not and the numbers of those who've become disenchanted increase every year...

  170. Doctor Jack

    Go to Youtube. Type in 'anti vaccine videos'.
    I watched one last night. It was about an hour long. Mostly MDs stating how dangerous vaccines are and that they did not know their ingredients. They go through all the ingredients per specific injection and all the diseases and damage they cause per organ. I watched another one presented by a nurse who unequivocally stated that vaccine risk far outweighed any perceived benefits. If you watch these and you still believe in vaccines, I recommend you make sure you and your loved ones get Flu shots this year as it's Flu season right...

    Quit picking on me, instead open up your mind and use that same time and energy to research those and that which challenges the orthodoxy. Maybe you'll go from medically entrenched to at least sitting on the fence and then from the fence to being on the right side of this issue. You have everything to gain and nothing to lose.

  171. Doctor Jack

    Bob, Jeezus I'm trying to wake you up but all you can do is regurgitate medspeak back to me.

    You are right. If one lives within our physiological limitations, all the "diseases" that are considered communicable are no longer something you have to be concerned or worry about. It's not that you gain immunity. It's that you're not causing them!!!!!!!!
    Stop being manipulated for crying out loud. If you don't get on the correct side of this argument, one of these days you're going to make decisions that will hasten yours and/or your loved ones into the next world. Wake up! Go to Youtube, type in 'anti vaccine videos' and watch a few. It's so easy. I watched two last night, one by a practicing nurse who stated why so called vaccines are always a bad idea and another one about an hour long, MDs saying the same thing and it also went over the ingredients and the various diseases and organ damage they caused per specific vaccine. We are designed for food, water, air, sunshine but not drug poisons. It's really that simple. Would you put turpentine in your gas tank? Of course not because your car is not designed to run on turpentine but that's what you're doing when you unwittingly submit to most medical treatments.

    Stop wasting your time bashing me and open up your mind to at least the possibility that you may have been mislead all your life. Take that same time you'd spend putting me down and instead do some research - you have already been convinced vaccines are healthy and good. You don't need to study that any more. Exposed yourself to those that say, wait a minute, vaccines are not only not beneficial but that cause brain damage and a whole lot more. It's all out there. One camp is right and one camp is wrong. I am flat out telling you, you are on the incorrect side of this issue and you need to fix that.

  172. Bob

    I've tried to stay 'civilish' with you Dr.Jack, but frankly you don't deserve it. You didn't even acknowledge one huge problem you have that I just asked, let alone try to answer honestly. Complete and utter faith healing BS is all that answer is. Dewflirt pegged you correctly, you don't even believe your own story. If you did you would have previously thought over exactly what I just asked, and had a logical answer rather than that cr@p you just wrote. I happen to be infected with Cb you @#$% @#$!!. I've done more research on my health than you will ever know, and on the vaccine, you never bothered to ask.

    Here's another problem, of the many, that demonstrates that your lies are just that. My friend who worked literally right beside me when I was exposed didn't get sick, he didn't get exposed and didn't test positive later, and has never shown symptoms. We shared a house, we shared the same food, had exactly the same lifestyle, basically we shared everything except our women. We did so for over a year before Cb came along. Our diet and lifestyle was exactly the same, the only difference was he drank more alcohol than I did. I happened to breath in one or more of the germs, he didn't. I watched the disease go through 2 different work places, turning many people that were strong and healthy into sickly, ill people. Not one person that was previously vaccinated even got sick. The majority, more than half, that were not vaccinated did. This was later proved in the legal proceedings that followed both incidences. Lifestyle had nothing to do with it. Exposure to Cb did. From all of us that have ever been infected with something, and had scamming bullsh1t artists like you trying to make a $ out of us, up yours. You know you're full of excuses and bovine faeces, I know you're full of it, so we have nothing more to say to each other. If I said I wished you good luck, I'd be lying. Long and painful infection would be closer to the truth. I don't believe in it, but it would be fitting Karma.

  173. Vlatko

    Rest assured, many people following and writing on this thread have made their research on vaccines and health in general and came to the most reasonable and factual conclusion, which agrees with today's science.

    On the other hand, judging by your posts, it's obvious that you're deriving "your knowledge" from a couple of YouTube conspiracy vids. It's sad.

  174. Doctor Jack

    No, that's not true. I am just not going to do research for you and others on this thread. You have to put out effort. If you are happy with vaccines and want to stay with that, get vaccinated, then go with that. Matters not to me.

  175. Doctor Jack

    Total nonsense!

  176. Vlatko

    Right, total nonsense... that's what we've been reading from you in the last several days. But if you care to take off your tinfoil hat for a moment and make an effort to actually read and understand the article you'll be surprised how much you can learn from one short and simple story which happens to precisely debunk almost all of your perpetual nonsense on this thread.

  177. Doctor Jack

    That's too bad. You may have done a ton of research but apparently you either haven't come across the right information or you have and simply rejected same as nonsense. What i have learned is pretty much diametrically opposed to medical germ/viral theories of disease causation. You're saying 'white', I'm saying 'black'. Not everyone gets it. I've had clients who've gotten better, symptom free and, at some point in time, went back to their old disease causing ways, and their symptoms returned. Most people are in a continual state of compromised health and all it takes is one or two exacerbating influences and bingo! they become symptomatic. I know people who have studied a big portion of the same information I've studied and then asked me questions that belied their lack of understanding of some of the major points. That's how strong a grip the concept of contagion has on society. I am definitely in a very small minority but there are others.
    I don't like being that different from the unwashed masses but this does make me very different than most but that doesn't mean I am going to change my thinking because knowing what I know and experiencing what I've experienced, that's literally an impossibility. My position is not medical scientifically correct but it is biologically and physiologically correct. Your first mistake was misinterpreting your symptoms and it's like taking a journey in which you've started off in the wrong direction, you just keep going in the same wrong direction. Open your mind to other possibilities and keep researching...

  178. Samuel Morrissey

    I could watch videos chasing names, studies court cases, forever... but the more I do the more I notice lots of clever advertising style movie tricks, grouping lists of possible components together when only one is present in any one vaccine. Red herring arguments about chemicals whose use has been reduced or stopped in nearly all cases. Data misrepresentation, shock/scare tactics, failure to acknowledge other variables over chronological periods used in support etc.

    It's boring.

    And basically you're stating that, *deepbreath

    The entire history of contemporary pathology, immunology, disease and micro-organisms is wrong, you (and your ethereal friends/MDs from you tube videos) alone know the deal, but it's a secret yada yada £, vaccines don't work (in some cases they don't) vaccines are dangerous (in some cases they are), government forces and big pharma are performing their secret duty poisoning the unwashed, silencing dissenters, all in order to sell more drugs that don't work.. umm.. ok I made that last one up you didn't say that :) forgive a little extrapolation.

    Well it's a lot more fun I'll grant you that. Bold claims. Extraordinary claims.

    Don't get me wrong, medicine should be constantly researched and revised the same with all technologies. You say, open your mind when there's a bunch of people here asking for sources/data whatever. I'm stopping here, I'm not picking on you. Have fun obfuscating etc.

  179. Vlatko

    You have done zero research. That's what your posts show. If it was otherwise we would have seen some substantial backup for your outlandish claims by now. However there's none, therefore your convo classifies as the usual snakeoil-conspiracy gibberish.

  180. Doctor Jack

    One of their "points" was that a particular substance while toxic in larger quantities is not toxic in such small quantities. That's just not true. A substance that's poisonous is poisonous regardless of quantity. That's medspeak. It's just that in smaller quantities, it's less harmful BUT IT'S STILL HARMFUL.
    Sir, we are only designed for clean air, pure water, sunshine, certain foods, sleep, exercise and so forth. We are not designed to have toxic chemicals injected into our blood streams. I don't know any one who is but you may be the exception. Make sure you get your Flu shot as we're going into Flu season.

  181. Doctor Jack

    You may be close but you need to rethink your belief as to what disease actually is. It's not what you think it is. I'll give you a big hint. Let's see if you can figure it out. Most organisms have one brain as we do but one brain acts like two brains. Have fun.

    I just finished taking a test ride with my mechanic so he could witness a problem I've been having with my car. As we're driving along he's telling me about a fistula he had on his rear end some ten years ago and all the surgical trauma he's been through. He was told that if they didn't cut it out, it would reach his liver and kill him. Of course he committed to these hacks and they carved out a new a**hole. That's just one example that came up today of how medical school students are intentionally taught to misinterpret symptoms in order to maximize their practice and the poor slob that goes to them is clueless but the cash register still rings. I explained to Pat what was really happening and he changed the subject. He's not buying what I told him. Too bad cause he has a continuous history of health problems. We are both almost the exact same age too. I rarely have any health issues, he has them all the time. He had surgery for something else a few months ago. He doesn't know how to properly take care of him self and is not interested either. I don't agree with his choice but it's his life so he can do whatever he likes. I can only live for me and hope to influence others who have health issues who actually want counseling and to get better. Speaking of which, I have two new clients this afternoon, a married couple with a few chronic health issues that need addressing before they devolve into more advanced stages. They have already made some positive lifestyle changes so they are heading in the right direction. The minimum time period I work with clients in one year because it takes time to learn and really a year is just a start. I do have clients that reup after their initial time period. They like the on going support and I don't charge that much, way less than medical docs and alternative practitioners.

  182. pwndecaf

    Sorry, you fall into the same category as your source with a naive, ethereal collection of personal notions.

    I'm all for prevention, but that is where we part ways until science backs you up. You go too far.

    Of course, I had my flu shot again this year, so perhaps they super-glued my mind shut.

  183. jackmax

    I see this is your first comment welcome to TDF.
    That's as nice as I will get to you at this stage.
    I have a couple of questions for you.
    1. Did you watch the documentary or are you just trolling susan?
    2. Have you not had an opinion about a subject then researched it for yourself only to see that all aspect of life and living are effected.
    3. Why is it that when someone shows that they have passion for particular subject that people like yourself will label them unfairly even without investigating the subject matter at hand?
    4. Are you a man of religion in any way?
    5. Did you read all the posts on this thread and if so why when so many others have been saying the basically same thing did you decide to provoke susan g rather than anyone else why has the same views?

  184. Vlatko

    By now it's more than obvious that you're just trolling or you're just ignorant. It's clear you haven't read anything, nor you managed to understand. Here are some interesting facts for you... feel free to pass them around in your anti-vax circles:

    One kilogram of pears contains 60 times more formaldehyde than a vaccine? If we assume that there are 5 pears in one kg, then one pear should be 12 times more lethal than a vaccine, in terms of formaldehyde dosage,

    Your body synthesizes (basically produces) 5000 times more formaldehyde in a day than the amount of formaldehyde in a vaccine.

    A baby breaks the amount of formaldehyde in a vaccine in under two minutes.

    Conclusion: According to your reasoning pears, mushrooms, potatoes, bananas, carrots and ultimately your own DNA are more dangerous than vaccines.

  185. pwndecaf

    With your disclaimer quote as a search phrase, I was able to find his website. Thanks!

    He even cures dandruff - maybe I should say he gets your body to control it. Nice. Sounds like a chiropractor (not a fan).

  186. jackmax

    No worries mate, I hope you found it as informative as I did about this man and his agenda.

  187. Doctor Jack

    Why should I trust your information sources? You don't trust mine. But let's just assume your sources are correct. So what! There are toxins in pretty much all food including wholesome foods like organic fruits and vegetables; however, foods, when eaten, are initially processed by the digestive system wherein the body can neutralize toxins and shunt them into the intestines and on their way out of its domain as the body cannot convert formaldehyde into flesh and blood and bone and so forth. But with injectable, laboratory produced, synthetically processed and extracted formaldehyde that's certainly not the case plus it's within a fluid containing many other toxic substances that hit the bloodstream all at the same time. By bypassing the gatekeeper, the digestive system, an extremely powerful multi headed toxic substance wreaks havoc upon all tissues its in contact with. One arrow heading towards you could be a formidable threat but a quiver of arrows swiftly heading in your direction when your shield is down, will probably kill you. So called vaccines do not protect because the symptoms they allegedly protect you from are caused by physiologically incorrect habits of living anyway and not micro organisms that you believe float through the air and into your mouth to lay you low. A 100 trillion celled extremely complex organism that's toppled by a simple celled bacteria. That would be like a 12 foot sailboat with one person on board and with no weapons taking over a 300 foot American warship with a crew of 500 and with all the sophisticated defensive and offensive weapons systems available. It just ain't gonna happen, never gonna happen ever. The body under the intelligent control of the sub conscious brain, if it's not overly compromised, will do any and everything it can to preserve itself including neutralizing incoming toxins from wholesome foods or any exterior source for that matter. That's what healthy defense mechanisms do which is what you're really referring to when you say "immune system". There is no 'immune system' per se. If there is, where is it? No what we have are defense mechanisms - certain types of cells whose job is to neutralize non self material such as formaldehyde and the many other toxins commonly consumed by most people on a daily basis, which leads to most diseases from which people suffer. These defense cells need no assistance from so called vaccines. They are ready at all times and when the toxic load is increased, the body produces more soldiers because there's a war going on . When the body is well taken care of, the soldier count goes way down because there's no need to expend energy on a large standing army if there's no threat. When one is vaccinated, the count goes way up because it's domain has just been invaded by toxic substances that pose a real and present danger and threat. One side or the other is going to win the war. Depending upon the extent and the severity of poisoning, the body will survive, survive but be chronically damaged or die altogether..There's absolutely no reason to risk damaging yourself or outright dying if there's absolutely no benefit to be had. It just makes no sense. Why anyone would take AZT, it just doesn't make any sense unless they want to commit suicide as it's a DNA chain terminating drug poison. There are probably easier less painful ways to kill yourself than death by pharmaceuticals.

  188. Doctor Jack

    I don't have to do the research nor do I need to check your sources. All I need to know is the body cannot convert formaldehyde into itself; therefore it is toxic. It's that simple. Go ahead and attack me, call me names stomp your feet whatever. It matters not. You'd be better off studying physiology - the science of how the body functions. Let me give you a big hint. All action on the part of the body is INTELLIGENT ACTION. That's where the -ology part of the word comes from. An organism will not act in such a way as to cause harm to itself. It only acts in ways to support and enhance life. That's why you recover after most accidents because life seeks life. And that's why you recover from most physiological illnesses. Next time you "get the Flu", you might try just going to bed and letting the process just simply run its course. Instead of drugging yourself, what you may notice is after a few days of sweating it out, you recover and you're fine. Same thing with a cold. No drugs needed or wanted. If that is indeed the outcome, how come you didn't die? Because life seeks life. The same is true for most other illnesses with scary sounding names designed to scare the hell out of you.

    You're using the term 'metabolize' incorrectly. If a substance is metabolized, that means it is converted into that which is doing the metabolizing. You're using the term the way it's taught in pharmaceutical schools, which, I suspect you've attended. (You should ask for your money back.) Perhaps there are elements still unknown but when a metabolizeable food is consumed, such as bananas, the nutrients it contains - vitamins, minerals,amino acids, fatty acids, glucose ARE converted to human flesh and blood and hair and bone. I suspect formaldehyde, if it occurs in the body, is a waste-by product of the putrefaction of concentrated proteins, just as methane gas is, indols, skatols, etc.

  189. Vlatko

    It's funny to observe how your uneducated gibberish unfolds on this thread. And it's good, because it will serve as an evidence of how deluded and a dangerous person can be when it comes to his own health.

    Now, why didn't you say anything about the formaldehyde in your blood? Previously you claimed that if there's formaldehyde in your blood that would be very toxic... even the very small amount contained in vaccines. How come you evaded this central fact of your previous gibberish? There's always formaldehyde in your blood. The toxicity is in the dosage. If you're exposed to a massive amount of formaldehyde it will become a problem for your body. It's the same with the oxygen. If you want you can poison yourself with it, but yet you can't live without it.

    Anyways, your whole comment can be annihilated with one simple fact (you've obviously missed) that your body actually produces formaldehyde as a result of DNA demethylation. Then, it converts it into formate,and then it uses it to synthesize purines and thymidine (basic building blocks of life).

    So, yes, your body produces, converts, uses, breaks down, and disposes formaldehyde on a daily bases.

    Anything else you need to be educated about? Feel free to ask? People will help.

    P.S. And no, I didn't attend any pharmaceutical schools.

  190. Doctor Jack

    You're just regurgitating medspeak. And yes, you have been to pharmaceutical school because the entire world is completely and utterly immersed in a medical soup - it's been worth exactly what you've paid for it - NOTHING! The toxicity is not in the dosage Mr. Medspeak. The toxicity is in the substance! More is just more poisonous while less is less poisonous but it's still poisonous!
    Here you are spouting laboratory geek speak while I'm living symptom free and helping others to be rid of their ailments and all without the aid of "medicines' or any other nostrums. Success leaves results!

    So since you wholeheartedly believe in "vaccines", you should get vaccinated every chance you get and your family too. In fact, get stuck more than is recommended since more is better. You can save 10% on your grocery bill at safeway if you get injected there so that's a great deal for you and your whole family!!!

  191. Vlatko

    Good, obviously I hit a nerve. You have no arguments left (if your ramble can be called an argument at all) and now you retort to the same old anecdote about your way of life (which in this case is not important at all) and your childish vaccine "recommendation" with the cynical slogan "more is better" which I have never claimed as such in the first place.

    Now, where is your answer about the toxicity of formaldehyde in your blood which is constantly running in your veins... NATURALLY... and you're constantly ingesting it on a daily basis?

  192. pwndecaf

    Dammit Jim - I'm a biophysicist, not a doctor!

    He's dead, Jim...

  193. Achems_Razor

    Ah! ad hominem are now forthcoming! Just like religee's when backed into a corner. Just because YOU say you are symptom free of any medical malaise then everyone should give you money, Eh? You are a prize Jack! If your doctor Mendelsohn was so sure of medical corruption why did he not live to 101 years instead of having a myocardial infarction at 61 years of age?

  194. Doctor Jack

    Sir you are relying on really bad information. Formaldehyde may be running thought YOUR veins but it's not running thought mine. You obviously never studied physiology from a biological perspective. News Flash! Human Beings are alive Vlatko, totally alive!!! Every cell every secretion, even your saliva is biologically alive, your bones, the roots of hair and finger and toe nails are all alive, all your bones, the roots of your teeth, everything about a human being is alive and extremely complex. It would take a computer the size of Manhattan to replicate all the electro- chemical biologically living reactions taking place in one cell now multiply that by a hundred trilliion and you have the approximate total makeup of the average sized adult human being. I don't care what or who your information sources are, they are wrong wrong wrong!!! Living creatures do not secrete non living fluids. You are thinking mechanistically not biologically. Biological creatures who may have biological problems require biological solutions not mechanical solutions unless you're talking about accidents, injuries, birth defects, emergencies and some but not all corrective surgeries but that's not what this discussion has been about. We've been debating the validity or lack thereof of a completely man made concept 'vaccines' that came into being at a time when man thought diseases were caused by demons and evil spirits, large things you cannot see. Now the medical quacks are saying diseases are caused by small things you can't see, viruses and bacteria. If you keep following your mechanistic way of thinking, if it hasn't already, some day it's going to get you into serious trouble healthwise. You're not a car Vlatko.
    You are a living breathing human animal that eats, drinks, excretes, breathes, emotes, etc. Inanimate objects don't do those things. Formaldehyde is not a living substance. We don't make non living substances, we only make living substances, 24 hours a day 7 days a week from sperm/ovum until death do us part, that act intelligently under brain control as part of the body politic to serve one overall purpose - SURVIVAL

  195. Doctor Jack

    I am 65. There's nothing I want to do that I can't do due to health anomalies. I ride my motorcycle just like I've done since 1991. I climb trees, I bicycle, swim and occasionally lift weights. My eyesight has actually improved so I don't need prescriptive glasses any more. And yes, people who have health problems of an acute or chronic nature absolutely should pay me if they perceive that there's value there for them. If they don't that's fine too. Health is not for everybody and it's probably not right for you because you have to earn it one decision, one hour and one day at a time, day after day, year after year. Just like what you call diseases. You have to cause diseases they don't just happen in a vacuum. Same is true for health. You have to cause health too.

    Dr. Mendelsohn was held in the highest of esteem in academic circles so you owe him an apology. Unfortunately he probably came across information, better information that turned him away from medical science late in his life and career. Also unfortunately for him, he was already highly compromised physiologically speaking and so driven to right a wrong that he spent most of his remaining time researching and writing aritcles and books exposing the incorrections in medicine and therefore was neglecting his own health and well-being. Nobody's exempt from the Laws of Life, not Dr. Mendelsohn, not me and not you. They apply to all living creatures.

  196. Vlatko

    Oh, you decided to deliver another deluded rant of yours. Great, so there will be another testimony of your massive ignorance about basic chemical and biological concepts which you can easily confirm and learn about with a click of a button, but you're stubbornly deciding not to.

    Now pick up a book (or surf a little) and LEARN that formaldehyde is indeed present in your blood at any given time on a microgram level. But that doesn't mean that outside exposure to a high dosage for a prolonged period of time is not hazardous. It is.

    If the formaldehyde concept is too hard for you to understand, let's move on to oxygen which is undoubtedly "living" matter as you say it. Right?

    Our bodies consume it every second as a 21% part of the air around us. Basically our existence is impossible without it. But if you decide to constantly consume high concentrations of it, like 100%, for a long time, you will most certainly get intoxicated and you will likely cause irreversible pulmonary fibrosis.

    Does this make sense to you? I suggest you get back to your studies because I have a feeling you're embarrassing yourself here.

  197. Fabien L'Amour

    I feel the next answer will be Ok, maybe Oxygen exists but it is not used by the body the way you say. He will then proceed to point you to a youtube video or blog from some old crazy pseudo-scientist that says the body actually uses Nitrogen instead! :)

  198. Fabien L'Amour

    Come on Vlatko, it's all true, a friend of his went to Botswana a few years ago and didn't become sick after touching a dead cow, so his conclusion is there are no germs anywhere on the planet. It's a new version of science, you can base your facts on anecdotes now. :D It's great because you don't need labs or any measuring instruments...

  199. Doctor Jack

    It is you who should be embarrassed not me! But you are right about oxygen. There are three inert substances that we need and can utilize - air, sunshine and water. Notice formaldehyde is not on that list. It never will be on that list either because, in any amounts, it is a poison and poisons, regardless of quantity, are always poisons and do not, with the wave of the magical medical wand, become transformed into utilizable substances.

    The human body has been designed over millions if not billions of years. It does not make mistakes. It is always defending itself from deleterious substances, circumstances and influences. If one has ingested substances that either are all poisonous or partially poisonous, our defense mechanism cells neutralize poisons and ready them for rapid elimination from our bodies. If pears or any other high quality food contain toxic substances, they are easily eliminated while the utilizable elements of any specific food are converted to us. But the 100% toxic inert chemicals that so called vaccines are composed of put an unnecessary strain on one's body wherein your body has to increase the numbers of these soldier cells to neutralize such a massive amount of poisons that have entered the bloodstream without benefit of the gatekeeper guardian digestive system and hopefully the organism survives. Ingesting or worse, injecting any substance into your body with absolutely no benefit is just plain stupid. Regarding vaccines, this is what medspeak calls :stimulating your immune system." Your "immune system" does not need artificial pharmacological stimulation. It's on the ready at all times. If one is living relatively cleanly, there's no need to expend energy to maintain a large standing army in times of peace but when there's a threat, it rallies to the cause like when it's "vaccinated" i.e. intoxicated. If one repeatedly poisons one's self, at some point, one's army loses the war and death ensues. This happens a couple hundred thousand times a year just in the U.S. These are doctor caused deaths or iatrogenic diseases but the death certificates always state the cause of death is whatever their underlying problem(s) was that they sought medical attention for in the first place. Vaccinations so called, is a stupid and barbaric practice that some day will be relegated to the past just as bloodletting has been during The Dark Ages. No wait, medical doctors have actually revived this barbaric practice.
    Maybe this too is something you advocate - vaccinations and bloodletting. What other magic potions do you have in your medicine bag of tomfoolery?

  200. Vlatko

    Why are you compelled to repeat the same wall of text over and over again? Why don't you concentrate on the very simple examples I'm giving you. I gave you a very simple argument about the oxygen and you completely avoided it and continued with your static rumble. That tactic won't fly.

    I already proved to you that toxicity is in the dosage with two examples (formaldehyde and oxygen) and that is true for almost every element on planet Earth. You also have traces of Zinc, Copper, Iron and many other elements in your body which are NECESSARY for your survival. But if you decide to ingest or expose yourself to a large dose of those same elements your health will quickly deteriorate. Does this make any sense to you?

    On top of all that I'll add the daily dose of radiation you're receiving which amounts to 0.62 rem early. Your cells can comfortably withstand that. They're built to survive on a very low doses of radiation. However if you decide to expose yourself to a high dose of radiation you'll be sick within an hour. Again the toxicity is in the dosage.

    Now, let me emphasize the fact that you should pick up a real book and educate your way out of that snakeoil-conspiracy-gibberish you're presenting here.

  201. dewflirt

    Blood letting is used for haemochromatosis, too much iron in the blood. There are drugs that will do the same but I expect you wouldn't agree with using those either. Which is the most barbaric?

  202. Doctor Jack

    You're the one erring here sir. Yes a larger dose of a poison is more damaging but a smaller dose is also damaging just less damaging. Being "vaccinated" would fall into the category of a large dose; therefore, a chemical cocktail of that size is more damaging and hundreds of thousands of infants, children and adults are permanently brain damaged and dead from this ridiculous barbaric practice and there is a plethora of information out there, both written and video, that will attest to that fact. So it is you that needs further research. I have known this for almost three decades.

    As to the trace mineral elements you named, yes, we need them, as we do many other minerals but they are only utilizable in their organic form and not in an inorganic form but you wouldn't know that would you. Organic minerals taken in in excess of need are harmlessly excreted, no problem. Mineral elements taken in in inorganic form cannot be utilized, therefore, they are toxic and hopefully the body can excrete them in a timely fashion before the cumulative damage is life threatening. An example would be hemochromatosis. I have had many patients who've followed "Doctors orders" who were put on these substances became pathologically symptomatic and once they stopped following "Doctors orders", over x period of time, their symptoms abated.

  203. Doctor Jack

    Bloodletting is more barbaric and physiologically incorrect as would be the use of drugs. As indicated in my last reply, how about just removing the cause - Duh!!!

  204. Vlatko

    Hahaha... ahhhh. It's really sad but in the same time you're providing a good laugh.

    If small doses are damaging than it means that the naturally occurring elements in your body are also damaging. According to your logic, also the oxygen you're breathing is damaging and almost everything you touch, smell, eat, etc is somewhat deadly.

    Vaccines don't provide large dose of harmful substances. I've already proved that to you. There's 12 times less formaldehyde in a vaccine than in one pear, and there's several hundreds times less formaldehyde in a vaccine than the amount of formaldehyde naturally occurring already in an infant's bloodstream.

    There's no organic and inorganic form of the same substance. The chemical composition is exactly the same. Atoms bound together forming a molecule.

    Look Jack, your lack of basic knowledge in biology and chemistry is astounding, and I can't believe you're counseling people on health issues while taking their money.

    I would go one step further and say that you should be locked up ASAP before you kill someone.

  205. Doctor Jack

    "Vaccine" ingredients are all poisonous and cumulatively, pack a big wallop since they are all administered in one injection, not to mention, the number of vaccinations scheduled per "doctors orders" has significantly increased over the years so that your argument that "large doses are poisonous" certainly applies here.

    As for air, water and sunshine, absolutely if you over do it, they can be life threatening. Too much air as in hyperventilating, your brain will pass you out so that you'll stop hyperventilating. Too much water consumed can kill you as has happened in say fraternity hellweek pranks and too much sunshine can burn you to a crisp. But those are the only inert substances we can utilized albeit in proper amounts.

    As to your completely ignorant statement about there not being "organic and inorganic" forms of the same substance, such statements further belie the fact that not only are you totally ignorant about so called vaccines being beneficial, formaldehyde being produced by the body but here we have a third example of your lack of knowledge about all things living. Yes chemically they are the same but as to assimilation, they are world's apart.

    As to you're stating "I should be locked up ASAP before I kill someone." I have been practicing health care for 25 years sir. If what I offer is so dangerous, wouldn't I already be locked up due to clients' actions against me? Of course I would be but I haven't. I have lived in the same community for 27 years and the only complaint that's ever been filed against me with a government agent was by a local naturopath who was losing customers/business to me. I responded to that local consumer protection agency inquiry by letter and never heard back from them. That was about 20 years ago. Meanwhile physicians who are licensed to kill, routinely bury their mistakes. I have never lost a single patient, a perfect record very few physicians could claim.

  206. dewflirt

    Remove their genes?

  207. Vlatko

    So, in your world of ignorance and delusion there are organic and inorganic Zinc and Iron? Awesome. I can't imagine how uneducated you have to be to state that?

    Seriously, you need to broaden up your worldview a lot, and I hope it's not too late. You have to begin to read materials that contradict your understanding and you have to exempt yourself from being subjectively attached to some bogus ideas.

    You've been "debunked" on several occasion by several people here (including me) but you still keep posting the same wall of text over and over again evading and twisting the arguments.

    You've been shown that there's already formaldehyde in your blood (and many other substances too), you've been presented with factual arguments that toxicity is in fact in the dosage and finally common sense (that you don't have) should tell you that there's no organic and inorganic Uranium, but just the molecule of Uranium.

    The point has been made and people will judge what's written here. Just don't tell anyone you know that you post under "Doctor Jack" on these threads. It's embarrassing.

  208. Doctor Jack

    No but that's funny. At least you have a sense of humor. The iron poisoning that's being referred to is due to the type of iron being consumed and not due to a lack of ability on the part of the consuming organism although that's not always the case. Depending upon what substance one is talking about, sometimes the substance is perfectly fine but one's equipment isn't up to the task so in those types of cases, it's about equipment improvements so that whatever ordinarily wholesome substance we may be referencing, can be utilized with great success. Each patient is different. It's definitely not one size fits all. That's why I take an extensive Personal Health History per client.

    Whereas the average time a physician spends with each patient is extremely low as they usually have more business than they can handle and therefore, in order to make the most money, they have to spread their time out more thinly, I spend many hours with my patients, over months, sometimes years as I'd rather have less business and a higher success rate per patient than the other way around. I don't depend on income from this to support myself as most people are medheads like Vlatko and believe that 'medical science' is the tried and true way for all health concerns. That is slowly changing so I've been told. I don't market either. When I take on a new client it's usually a referral from an existing client or from a mutual friend.

  209. Doctor Jack

    Well I think we're done here. Going back and forth with you is like dueling with an unarmed man and a complete waste of time Thank God YOU'RE NOT counseling people on health matters. That would be a crime and a disaster for your victims. We just have to agree to disagree and leave it at that. So long Vlatko or whatever your real name is.

    Doctor Jack

  210. Vlatko

    Unlike you I'm not counselling anyone because I feel I don't have the necessary expertise. I leave that to science and professionals, but I always double check and seek second opinion.

    On the other hand you are so high on your egotrip that you're probably unaware of your unbelievably uneducated statements that you're making along the way.

  211. Doctor Jack

    At least you're right about one thing - you definitely don't have the expertise. And you're right about everything else and I'm wrong about everything else so let's just leave it there.

  212. pwndecaf

    This is why he takes patients that are already dying. When they go (after paying), it was their fault for not following orders.

    Yes, he is listed as an alternate therapy provider for HIV / AIDS. You heard him mention many times how his patients didn't listen and keeled over. Easy to say.

    BTW, air, water and sunshine - do we get to eat sometimes? I never saw anyone live on the three ingredients you "prescribe."

  213. Doctor Jack

    In The Starfield Report, it states that 250,000 people die in The United States each and every year from medical treatments, not the 'wrong' treatments, just medical treatments period. Medical treatments or iatrogenic/nosocomial disease is listed as the number three killer of Americans after heart disease and cancer. So why on earth with a dismal record like that, would everyone in this forum be so pro medicine? You are playing Russian Roulette with your life usually with no possibility of any benefit when you undergo medical treatments. Those are not odds I would take. Instead, you should be seeking health practitioners who have studied the real causes of illth, those who can guide and assist you in your taking responsibility and control of your own health recovery. You are suffering from a lack of the right knowledge.

    You're looking for where this came from:

    B. Starfield MD
    July 26, 2000
    JAMA 284(4)
    pp 483-485

  214. Doctor Jack

    Apparently you either didn't re-read the article you referenced or you did but didn't see such an obvious cause of ill health to the adolescents of that particular community. What do kids like to do in the summer months when it's HOT? Go swimming right. And in this particular community there was a river where they would swim. Well guess what they were swimming with in this particular river? Human waste that's what! The municipality's waste ended up in this river. Now if this were acknowledged by medical science, they would deny that feces and urine cause disease but it's the bacteria in human waste that causes disease. I sure as hell hope you don't believe that total crap. Swimming amongst the turds, taking in a mouthful from time to time, you're going to be one really sick pup, add that to all the junk stuff they probably consumed, mix in a few other factors not mentioned and you have one well baked recipe for some serious physiological anomalies.

  215. dewflirt

    Morning Jack :) I'm not getting into this again, think we've both said all there is to say on the matter and I'm still right and you still think you're right too. Neither of us is going to whip this dead horse into walking no matter how hard we try. My last words on this: Primum non nocere. See ya later alligator.

  216. over the edge

    I would like to go into your claims and the link you provided a little deeper. Not only does it not answer my direct questions but refutes some of your other claims as well.

    You state

    -"not the 'wrong' treatments, just medical treatments period." But your source states

    "• 12 000 deaths/year from unnecessary surgery
    • 7000 deaths/year from medication errors in hospitals
    • 20 000 deaths/year from other errors in hospitals" these are wrong treatments.

    The study also attributes these causes mainly to a lack of strong primary care, lack of universal healthcare (at the time of study" and income inequality. Not the non existence of Bacteria and viruses like you claim.

    So no I do not refute your study at all like you predicted. I agree with most of it. Too bad you misrepresented what it says. Now I know why you hate giving sources. They do not back up your claims

  217. Doctor Jack

    The only information I was referencing was the death statistics from medical treatments per Dr. Starfied's article. You asked for 'peer reviewed' right?

    As for my other claims, it took years of reading and research for me to really understand the medical concept of 'infection' not being what everybody thinks it means. Dr. Starfield's interpretation of 'infections' would be the standard medical interpretation as she was medically trained just as you are whether you went to medicine school or not. Practically everybody believes in the medical concept of infection, i.e. the medical interpretation of certain symptoms. Ex: I have a 72 year old patient who after making considerable improvements in lifestyle and diet, woke up one morning with a skin opening right above his ankle the size and shape of a silver dollar. There was a liquid substance oozing out - pretty gross. Had he contacted medical personnel, they probably would have said he had a bacterial or viral INFECTION and who knows how it would have been handled, certainly antibiotics. Instead he called me, I drove over to his house, explained what was going on, he followed my recommendations and within a few weeks it cleared up, healed up and that was the end of that. The same thing happened to another 45 year old patient many years earlier and his long term outcome was fine too.

    In order for me to overcome my free "medical education", it took a heroic amount of reading and study. Most of what I studied, you would not accept as credible that I'm sure of. The medical industrial complex has total media access and can put whatever information they like out over the air waves over and over and over and over and ... whether it's anthrax, ebola, AIDS, Lyme, Norivirus, Legionnaires, whatever. What they do and have been doing without exception is taking situations and conditions that have dietary, lifestyle and environmental causes and waving their magic medical wand turning them all into viral or bacterial causes for a couple reasons. One, it means drugs such as the billions that will be made from so called ebola vaccines and two, it diverts potential blame away from their future potential customers who come to them for treatment$ as in the recreational drug caused illnesses amongst homosexuals in the early 80s in LA and other big cities where they concentrate. A lesser example would be Lyme Disease - said to be caused by ticks on deer. NOT! That area has a nuclear power plant that was discharging radioactively charged water into a nearby river. The river water was used for field irrigation. The cows eat the grass irrigated with that water. Humans consume dairy products and become symptomatic from radiation poisoning but the whole thing was completely obfuscated by labeling it Lyme Disease caused by ticks on deer. What a joke! Same thing with everything else - The Plague definitely was NOT caused by fleas on rats, malaria is not caused by mosquitos and so forth. Lots of reading from sources you would dismiss since they are surely not medically peer reviewed. While I don't agree with how you think, I can't argue your desire to want credible sources. It's just that at least in this case, it's just such a tight club that with few exceptions, no one from within the club is going to come out with anything that challenges the accepted dogma. It would almost assuredly mean economic suicide, certainly one would become a pariah to one's professional peers and so forth - better to go along to get along. I am not in the club, don't want to be in the club and never would be invited so it doesn't matter to me. I'm just interested in the truth wherever that may lead me. I also don't depend on my health consulting practice for financial support. It's really more of a hobby because it's hard to find people who have broken through the medical mind control veneer but I've been told that's slowly changing. Now MDs are offering "integrated medicine" so that they can hopefully not continue to lose customers to the alternative practitioners. Smart marketing mostly. I have patients who have nothing but contempt for the FORMER medical doctors they relied upon for healthcare.

    Anyway, thanks for your time and attention.

    PRIMUM NON NOCERE

  218. Doctor Jack

    You got me there. But from my perspective almost all medical treatments are wrong treatments. The exceptions are accidents, emergencies, injuries, birth defects and some corrective surgeries.

  219. jackmax

    PRIMUM NON NOCERE That's a bit rich coming from you. If you meant that you would not have carried on with all the crap you have without any evidence to your claims and the insults and the lack of respect for the other posters on this thread.

  220. over the edge

    you state "You asked for 'peer reviewed' right?" Yes I did. I should have been more specific (my fault). So here goes. Do you have peer reviewed evidence for the questions I actually asked? Nobody here argued against your claim concerning the death stats. But you (as you already admitted) were wrong concerning that claim. And now have to rephrase it.

  221. pwndecaf

    Curious about your diagnosis of the 72 year old man, and the 45 year old man years earlier.

    What do you think was the cause?
    What, as you explained to him, was going on?
    What were your recommendations?

    You said a doctor probably would have called it an infection and treated it with antibiotics. If you know that, you should be able to say what disease the doctor would have called it.

    You are quite vague on details here when it would seem to be a great opportunity to show how your treatment makes more sense.

  222. pwndecaf

    Yeah, so it goes...

  223. Samuel Morrissey

    Well, alright Jack. I wasn't going to reply since you felt like I was picking on you. I don't do that. I always remind myself that the anonymous person I am typing to is a human being, with feelings, opinions and beliefs etc. I have empathy for nearly everyone Jack, and I'm trying to keep it up with you.

    You make it difficult though. As several other posters have concluded, it seems unlikely that you actually believe what you are saying. Your post above, is a lot of words. A paragraph of nonsense followed by a wall of personal anecdote. This means precisely nothing to me Jack.

    If you actually believe it, I need to know your answers to a few questions. To keep it clear I will format it, please don't bother to reply if you will not or can not answer these questions.

    Yes, or no:

    1. Micro-organisms and pathogens can cause damage to large numbers of cells in the human body?

    2. The immune system works to incapacitate, inhibit or neutralize damaging pathogens and micro-organisms?

    3. A combination of the damage caused and the resulting immune response manifests as illness or disease?

    4. The immune system has a method of memorising previous infections/poisons to enable it to deal with them more swiftly in future?

    5. Vaccines are designed to stimulate an immune response to specified micro-organisms/pathogens?

  224. Fabien L'Amour

    hehehe, well worth a watch if only to make you smile, thanks over the edge :)

  225. Doctor Jack

    Not if you mean medical peers 'peer reviewed'. Of course not. The claims I've made are totally contrary to so called medical science. That doesn't me they aren't valid; it just means they are not medically compatible or medical peer reviewed. Not believing that diseases are not caused by microorganisms is blasphemy to The Church of Modern Medicine. If those within the orthodoxy publicly go against that grain, they are on their way out of the cult, maybe out of a lucrative career. So no, I don't have any peer reviewed evidence of the claims I've made.

  226. Doctor Jack

    Well, first of all I didn't TREAT anything. I just told them both to keep that area clean with clean water, use gauze to keep the ooze from getting all over their clothes and sheets but to change the dressings often. It would be illegal for me to treat any symptom or any disease as you have to be specifically licensed to treat symptoms or diseases as an allopathic medical physician, chiropractor, acupuncturist, naturopath, homeopath, massage therapist and so forth. I don't diagnose either. My background is in the study of physiology from a biological perspective. I've studied how the body functions. Physiology is, of course, taught in pharmaceutical schools but not from a biological perspective but rather a mechanical perspective. Ex: If someone has been medically diagnosed with say kidney problems, I would make lifestyle/diet recommendations on how to improve kidney function. Of course it would be up to the one so suffering to implement my recommendations or not. On the other hand, a medical doctor might recommend going on dialysis or even having a transplant. In the meantime, they would more than likely be put on kidney medicine. The average person, trusting physicians, would probably not object to any treatments and just comply out of fear because they've just been diagnosed with kidney disease or CRD caused by a virus. BTW, my approach, to improve kidney function even if the patient was totally compliant is absolutely no guarantee of a successful outcome. It depends on how compromised one's kidneys function are at that point in time. Is there enough functioning kidney left to carry on a more or less healthy life? My approach is the most conservative. If this approach is given the time to bear fruit and it doesn't work, one could resort to medical options.

    In my older client's case, he might have been told that he contracted a flesh eating bacteria. It would have been treated initially with antibiotics and if the "infection" didn't stop, it's quite possible that he would have been told that it's become more serious and that surgery may be necessary to prevent it from spreading to the rest of his body, especially the heart where it could kill him. There are plenty of people walking around with one leg or one arm or one something where they use to have two because of some non life threatening condition that was diagnosed to be life threantening. My father had one of his eyes surgically removed when he was around 30 because some hack doctor told him that if he didn't, the blindness from his bad eye would spread to his good eye and he would become completely blind. He had had an accident when he was a kid that cut his eye and left it useless but it looked normal in his eye socket and his seeing eye compensated and he could drive and do pretty much everything he wanted anyway. Of course 'blindness' isn't a 'thing' that spreads so what he was told was a bunch of crap but he trusted this prick anyway and out the eye came. It was a physical source of irritation the rest of his life with a glass eye and olive oil for lubrication, an eye patch or just an empty socket around the house. So if you don't think patients are misdiagnosed, you just aren't aware but it's real common. Unfortunately when they are students in pharmaceutical schools, they are actually taught to misdiagnose in order to turn people into paying customers. I would go in for a checkup myself but I'm afraid they'll find something wrong with me.

    The cause of this phenomenon was when I first started working with him and his wife, he weighed 270 lbs. At 6'2" that was beyond excessive. He lost down to 210 or so when the nasty oozing happened. So obesity from improper habits of living including a crappy diet made what was going on necessary. Also, vaccines, medications, over the counter medicines, alcohol, he had been a smoker for many years though he had stopped long before I met him, not enough sleep, probably not enough exercise or other physical activities, emotional stresses, perhaps unclean drinking water and air and so forth. Add all that stuff up together over a life time and you have one big puss bucket just waiting to spew and spew he did! He was having a 'fection' alright but it wasn't an infection...

  227. awful_truth

    A good chiropractor is worth their weight in gold, and to compare Dr. Jack's position to them is beneath you.
    Question: Do you believe there is no scientific evidence to support chiropractic care?
    I was put down for a year at age 15, and after being told by a bone specialist I would be in a wheel chair at 17, I hobbled into a chiropractors office, and walked out pain free. The nerve impingement of a misaligned disc is called a subluxation, and the only reason it took so long for the medical community to wake up to chiropractic benefits, is because it doesn't support the pharmaceutical industry.
    (something to think about) Take care pwndecaf!

  228. awful_truth

    While I may agree with some of your intellectual skepticism regarding the medical community, I find myself questioning the integrity of your position. The desire to help people only if you profit from it is immoral.
    I am 50 years of age, and have never been overnight in a hospital in my life. I accredit this to a very active lifestyle, good genetics, and a little luck. I can guarantee you, I have to be dying before you will get me to a hospital, and I am sure when your time comes, (and it will) you will be happy to do the same! Take care Dr. Jack.
    P.S: Not everything in western medicine is a lie, and you would be well served to listen once in a while. You might learn something you can ill afford to miss!

  229. Doctor Jack

    First off I don't "believe" what I've said. It's way beyond just simply believing. The basic precepts have been proven over and over and over again not only experientially but by my patients and others. Now that I've gotten that out of the way, on to your questions...

    1. No. Bacteria are not capable of eating or damaging healthy cells but weakened cells yes. When we die, they have a feast as dead organisms are lunch to them. It's called bacterial decomposition. Example: Way back before refrigeration, ham was coated with salt to kill bacteria in order to preserve the meat right. Salt is anti biotic and kills bacteria thus preserving the flesh. But if the salt wasn't there, it wouldn't be long before there would be a foul stench in the air from the bacteria eating the dead pig muscle.

    2. We don't have an "immune system" we have defense mechanisms such as white blood cells, macrophages, eosinophils, basophils and so forth. They are our army, marines, air force, navy and special forces. Their function is to neutralize and process toxins, non self materials, that are within its domain. We are naturally full of micro organisms; in fact, we're talking billions. If they caused pathology or disease or symptoms or whatever you want to call it, we would not exist in the first place. Yes, Samuel they are present and in huge numbers but being present does not mean causative. Here's the deal, mankind is destroying the planet because they are just too damn many of us and a lot of us just aren't respectful of our home so we are polluting our water, earth and seas wouldn't you agree? We are putting too much stress on the planet at least that's what I think. Just as with the way we are destroying earth, we are also destroying our bodies and compromising our health. Flies are usually present where there's garbage but they don't cause garbage do they? If one lives in an environment overflowing with garbage, there's a good chance it's going to affect their level of health be it air pollution, soil pollution, water pollution or all three as we cannot thrive in a toxic environment without becoming toxic ourselves and when you add unnecessary toxins, i.e. "medicines" to the mix, you are just adding insult to injury. The medical establishment has one whooping huge stake in making sure you believe in bacteria and viruses causing disease. If the vast majority of earth's people knew it was toxins not micro organisms and cleaned up their way of living, they would be much healthier, the environment would improve as well and most physicians and nurses would be looking for other work. They do come in very handy when it comes to accidents, injuries, emergencies, birth defects and some corrective surgeries so I'm not saying they don't have useful work to do - it depends on one's situation. I broke my ankle 11 years ago in a motorcycle accident that I caused. Of course I went to an orthopedist. But the vast majority of health problems people experience do not fit into the above categories so up to as much as 90% of medicine would become obsolete and disappear.

    3. Disease/illness processes in the acute and chronic stages are initiated by the subconscious brain as self preservation processes.

    4. I am not aware of any cells other than brain cells having memory and it's the brain that is controlling all functions including defense cell functions. The brain has the instantaneous ability to recognize non self material and wastes no time in responding in an efficacious manner defending itself. If the offensive substance or substances continue to invade it's domain, the brain will either stop attempting to neutralize the offending substances say for someone who keeps smoking tobacco but that definitely does not mean that the continued inhalation of tobacco smoke is not doing more damage. It is and at some point one's own cells may become mutagenic due to this constant toxic onslaught. These cells become cannibalistic in order to survive so it's right action for these cells but unfortunately, eventually the organism will die. (That's when bacteria have their day.)

    5.That's medical science but it's not real science. That's the marketing, to get the average Joe to submit. It's nothing more than a racket, the oldest one in the medical bag of magic potions. So called vaccines "do" nothing of the sort. First off, you're talking about toxic chemicals that are not acting under any form of intelligence. They only have the ability to form chemical bonds but they do not have the ability or capability to know where to go or to do anything specific or non specific for that matter. Instead, they are acted upon by the body under brain control and defensively so. The body is doing all the acting not the chemical cocktail that's just bypassed your first line of defense, your digestive system, and gone directly into your blood stream for circulation throughout your entire body. So what's happening is your body is stimulated to protect itself not from micro organisms but from the posion cocktail that's just been injected directly into it's blood supply. You want to use the word 'infection'? Well you've just infected yourself. You have just effed up big effing time! Stimulation and irritation are synonymous terms by the way so your sub conscious brain is really effing pissed off at your conscious brain for making such a totally stupid decision. You've just irritated your body big time! So your sub brain has to make more soldier defense cells to deal with the enemy which is toxic chemicals not micro organisms. If the toxins are overwhelming to the body, the organism might perish as happens frequently with medicated/vaccinated newborns, infants, adolescents and kids as their defense mechanisms haven't fully developed yet. This is flat out criminal behavior and some day when enough people wake up, it will cease to exist as will most of so called medical science. Only the exceptions I've listed above will still be around at least I hope so as they are needed. I have not been trained to set a broken leg so I couldn't help one so afflicted but if one had "the flu" then physicians can't help one so afflicted because they have been deliberately MISEDUCATED to believe that this symptom complex is caused by micro organisms and needs to be treated with the so called flu vaccine or flu shot or anti biotics or some other "medicine". The last time I was injected with anything was 1967 as I went off to college as a Freshman. Of course this was all my parents doing. A week later I was extremely sick with "the flu". No more injections since then - over 45 years ago.

    This is all about what's right not who's right don't you agree? Broken leg, absolutely see a medical doctor! Flu, see someone with my background, learn what you're doing / not doing that's making that particular symptom complex necessary in the first place and stop that sh*t!

  230. Doctor Jack

    I do plenty of pro bono work.

    You're right not everything in western medicine is a lie, just most of it. You surely have been taken advantaged of medically though you're probably not aware of it. I don't know anyone who hasn't been. As an example, everything that was ever done to me by the pediatrician over a 19 year period was life threatening, had absolutely nothing to do with healthcare.

  231. awful_truth

    Since I have avoided the medical industry successfully all my life, (not including stitches) it is safe to say that I have not been taken advantage of. It also helps that my personal doctor listens to my own diagnosis, (I am well versed) and follows my lead, since no one knows my body better than me. This proactive approach has served me well.
    Note: As I stated previously, I do agree with your skepticism, (well justified) but perhaps you may wish to consider how lucky you have been not to contract something life threatening. Not only has it bolstered your self belief, (a good thing) the down side is it may have created self delusion. Either way, no person should ever dismiss the power of thought, no matter what realm of investigation it encompasses.
    P.S: We are a product of our environment, and childhood trauma imprints us for life. For this reason, it is important to objectively reflect on how these situations impact the way we think. Best wishes Dr. Jack.

  232. dewflirt

    That was a lovely little reminder to enjoy the party but leave before the fights start :) Easier to be a citizen debunker than it is to enbunk all the science !

  233. pwndecaf

    That's not where I was going. Who doesn't like a good back crack?

    But, I said I was not a fan. I think it works for some things. There is an article at saveyourself dot ca on Sept 20, 2014 (Does Chiropractic Work?) that looks to be about where my feelings are.

    I'm glad it worked for your problem, but I don't want to drift off the pandemic topic to chiropractic care.

  234. pwndecaf

    Were there any answers in there?

  235. Bob

    You saw a pediatrician, a child's doctor, for 19 years??.... what you do in the bedroom has nothing to do with medicine Dr.Jack...

  236. Doctor Jack

    I agree with everything you've said. You're wiser than the average bear re: health matters. And yes thought is amazing. I remember prior to my interest in the health field thinking from time to time how it had been quite some time since I had been sick and Bingo! within a few days I would be. Unfortunately even after becoming knowledgeable in this field, I mistakenly made a couple of my relatives symptomatic simply by making statements that so irritated them that one slept for almost a day the other had to check into the hospital due to breathing problems. Both, of course, were highly compromised to begin with so what I said was more in the way of an exacerbating influence but still...I learned a big lesson.

    I really don't think I'm self delusional. I have a great respect for gravity etc. As to "contracting something life threatening" you don't contract illnesses you DEVELOP them from physiologically incorrect habits of living certainly including submitting to most medical treatments most definitely including "vaccinations". In that regard, I am very lucky I didn't succumb to all that tomfoolery though I'm sure damage was done. They just didn't kill me or make me go blind though I did need glasses by the age of 12. That's one form of 'childhood trauma' that we're affected by for the rest of our lives, in addition to all the other forms it takes. Nobody gets out of this thing alive!

  237. Bob

    Delusional about something does not automatically equate to delusional about everything. Therefore your 'belief' in gravity does not mean you have no delusions, and is not evidence for your ever more ridiculous hypothesis. That is a silly argument that means nothing other than you don't make sense.

  238. Doctor Jack

    Fine. I'll stick to my delusions and my patients can stick to the same delusions that get them healthier and you can stick to your delusions, OK?

  239. Greg R.

    You should try that speech next time you're at a reservation. You can let them all know that their healthy way of living off the land decimated their people and all their organic process-free food made them susceptible to small pox. And while you're doing that the rest of the world can pretend that smallpox wasn't eradicated through vaccination.

  240. Bob

    The same patients you tell in your disclaimer to see a real doctor if there is a real medical problem, yes. If you mean I must not point out fallacies that I notice, no, that's not OK. I don't have to be quiet at your request. If you mean we're all allowed to believe whatever we wish, fine, that's OK. In fact it is more than OK, it's a requirement for a free society. But just because someone believes something, does not mean they are immune to evaluation and criticism, even derision if it is clearly absurd, when they choose to talk about it in public, as you are. The second you made your claims on here you opened yourself up to be evaluated. And you have been found to be lacking in substance by every logical person on here so far.

    If you agreed with everything AT said, then you should take his advice when he said ; "perhaps you may wish to consider how lucky you have been not to contract something life threatening." Clearly he doesn't agree with your position or absurd claim against Germ Theory, and so you do not agree with everything he said, in fact. You're full of it Dr.Jack, the more you talk the more holes appear.

  241. Doctor Jack

    Pharmaceutical School graduates are only suited for a very small portion of what they address healthwise, which I've been over. If you wish to view all healthcare through a medical prism, that's fine. If you are an adult, you have given your consent to be medically deluded and they appreciate your business.

    You're right about me "being full of it". I am full of superior ways to address health problems than you will ever know. You will never find out about superior approaches to healthcare because you think you're right about all of this but what you really are is brainwashed and people that are brainwashed DON'T KNOW THEY ARE BRAINWASHED. Like I said above, they need your business so please make sure you pay your disease care premiums every month right on time and get vaccinated per their recommended schedules in order to keep your immunity current.

  242. Bob

    Lol, guess again Dr.Jack. I don't pay any premiums ANY month, and I didn't get vaccinated as per doctors recommended schedules, I already explained in detail how that was exactly the reason I am now unwell. Your herring flavored strawman just fell over.

    Exactly like a faith healer, you claim to be above all other possible sources of knowledge.. just ask you. Thank you, it's about time you cut to the chase and admitted you have no evidence you're willing to offer, just requests to believe you (and pay for information based on that belief) that you erroneously offer as the correct way to treat all disease. Too right I wont be finding out about your supposedly 'superior' knowledge, you don't have the faintest idea about Cb, and I have no intention of donating to a faith-healing, snake-oil selling, full of sh1t conman like yourself. You should know all about people being 'medically deluded', you said only one ever asked for their money back from you, even though you admitted others became unwell again after your 'treatments'.

    If you want to make your point, you still have to give something other than the crud you have so far. That's not my fault, that's yours, despite your efforts to twist it around.

  243. pwndecaf

    Look up "dark triad" on Wikipedia or Google and you will find him.

    Free diagnosis - pro bono (for the public good).

  244. Bob

    That is an interesting read, I hadn't seen that term before, thank you. I think that seems to be a very probable diagnosis.

  245. Doctor Jack

    You keep insisting that I offer TREATMENTS. How many times have I said that I DO NOT HAVE ANY TREATMENTS!!! Jeezus can't you read?

    As for clients I've had that re built their health and at some point in time subsequently went back to the same disease causing behaviors and their symptoms came back, I do not have control over how others choose to live. Just as you are in charge of your life and make most of your decisions, so did the people I referred to because it's nothing more than cause and effect and the causes are not due to micro organisms but you're free to believe they are. Just be careful your tinfoil hat doesn't fall off and hurt your good luck fairies. You are suffering from a lack of knowledge. Having said that, it sounds as if your condition is pretty far advanced and that you would not benefit from a biophysiological approach anyway. Neither myself nor my colleagues, who, by the way, are all licensed health practitioners, will not just take any one on willynilly. It depends on how advanced one's pathology is or is not. It sounds as if you're pretty far advanced and you know that and that's why you're writing such hateful diatribes against me. Even if I could help you, I wouldn't because you've shown a total lack of respect towards me. I've saved lives and attempted to save more but some are just hellbent on destruction oh well...health is definitely not for everybody. I have provided plenty of useful information in this thread. If you and others haven't been able to pick up on it it's because you see everything through a medicat treatment filter. Some have understood what I've shared, you're just not one of them.

    Well, I'm done here with you as with others who've resorted to immature name calling.

  246. bluetortilla

    I see. You were angry. That happens to a lot of us!

  247. Achems_Razor

    You have made CLAIMS that you can cure people through your (sic)biophysiological approach, whatever the hell that means? Therefore you are definitely offering treatments! since you have made claims, the burden of proof lays with you to show empirical evidence of your claims!

  248. jackmax

    if what you say is true and you believe that to the extent that you have displayed on this thread why would you need to have a disclaimer like you have. If what you are saying is correct and you have been doing it for a number of years, how is it that you and your " colleagues" have not produce any thing that may resemble a peer view paper so that all can test and apply your method knowing that they are not actually endangering the life of the patient.

  249. Doctor Jack

    See what I mean. Almost all of you are viewing my missives through a medical prism. You are only capable of thinking of disease as a thing you get that needs to be cured or treated by something outside your body - a drug or some other extraneous substances or procedure. You are so medically zombified, your conscious brain is no longer capable of thinking any differently. You have a terminal case of M.A.S.S. disease. To use a concept that you are familiar with...there's no cure for MASS. You get it from birth and you have it unto death. It's killed more people by a factor of a billion than any other disease known to mankind and it will continue to kill millions of more people year after year after year for decades if not centurys to come.

    I do not treat anybody!!! I do not have any treatments!!! All I have in my office is a printer, chairs, tables, video monitor, books and a white grease board mounted to the wall. Again, all I do is teach. You went to school didn't you? You went into a class room, the teacher spent the better part of the period talking on a specific subject, you listened, took notes, maybe you asked a few questions and left the room when the bell rang. That's the same thing that happens with me as the teacher and my clients as the students. Each class or appointment usually lasts two hours but I had one last Sunday that lasted 3 1/2 hours with a 1/2 hour break.

    Empirical evidence is not proof of what you would call 'cure' or symptoms no symptoms. Why? Well one might have a headache and perhaps take aspirin or some other acetaminophen product and in a short time, the headache might be gone. As with any experience where there's pain and some "medicine" is taken and shortly thereafter the pain's gone, why would anyone in their right mind not think that the "medicine" cured their headache? No one would unless they've studied human physiology from a biological perspective. I've already told you in other posts what physiology is and that it's taught from a mechanical perspective in pharmaceutical schools rather than from a biological perspective. Liver probelms? No problem, we'll install a new liver. Of course that's going to cost you $100,000 or more and you'll be taking anti rejection drugs for the rest of your life. My approach: TEACH TEACH TEACH (got it!!!) the person with liver problems how to take the stress and strain off their liver through superior ways of living so that the liver can function better and the person no longer has a liver problem. Guaranteed to work? ABSOLUTELY NOT! There are no guarantees the biophysiological approach will work but wouldn't it make more sense to try something that's completely conservative before you opt for something as radical as having your gut split open and having your liver removed and replaced with a liver from some other person who died in a tragic accident?

    Of course when I here from a client that they don't have 'x' symptoms any more or to a much lesser extent, they are relying on their own experience which is also empirical so that's no good either but because all they did was make some lifestyle and diet adjustments, which I do not consider treatments, and they began to consistently feel better, wouldn't it be reasonable to conclude that they are, in fact, experiencing better health especially if they resort to their old ways and their symptoms come back? Since it's nothing more than cause and effect, I would but you may not I can't speak for you. But remember, I have read and studied way beyond what's necessary to work with people and have read thousands of personal case histories that back up this approach to improving health, thousands. And these people weren't selling anything because there are no products - no drugs, no supplements, no homeopathic stuff, no aroma therapy stuff, no incense, no vitamins, no foods, no nothing, just healthier habits of living.

    *Medically Acquired Stupidity Syndrome

  250. Fabien L'Amour

    Can you give us some scientific proof of what you say outside some nurse or med doing a youtube video? Sure, it's easy to watch youtube videos, but outside anecdotes, what is the scientifically proven information with measures and peer reviewed publications you can provide? Telling people not to put turpentine in their car is a visualization for the layman but I am interested in something a little more scientifically tangible.

  251. Doctor Jack

    Probably not. I can only give you books or other information provided by those I believe know very well what they are talking and writing about. Is their work peer reviewed? I have no idea as that's not a criteria for me as I have a strong basic understanding of how human physiology works; therefore, when I come across some work or other that purports to improve overall health or some specific malady and it's in keeping with The Laws of Life or Physiology and it's written by someone whose background makes them qualified, I will read or view or listen to it. If it's the real deal, I will know it. If it's not the real deal, my BS detector antenna on my tinfoil hat goes haywire. I've already given the posters Dr. Robert Mendelsohn and he was cut to shreds. Now it's been probably fifteen years since I read his three books but I don't recall anything in his books that was way off given my built in BS detector. i do remember he was staunchly opposed to newborn babies having silver nitrate drops put into their unopened eyes to protect them from any venereal diseases the mother may have. Of course he was correct about that but you might think putting toxic chemicals into the eyes of human beings who've been in the world a few minutes a good thing, my BS antenna would spring up on my tinfoil hat perhaps even extending through the roof and up into the stratosphere. That's just one example of an almost infinite number of idiotic crap offered by medical "science". So no matter what anybody says here in these posts, Dr. Mendelsohn was absolved from his sins of being a medical doctor for so long before he came over to the right side of healthcare thus atoning for his sins.
    Were his books 'peer reviewed'? Probably not. And anybody else I could give you, certainly medical doctors or Ph.D.s who've taken the road less traveled, they aren't going to be 'peer reviewed' unless it's to invalidate their work. Am I paranoid? Maybe but if you've been around long enough, you should know that there are political consequences to many things in life and that surely applies to all things medical.

  252. Fabien L'Amour

    The peer review process is for scientific research publications, not books with assumptions. You probably shouldn't reject it in block in favor of an internal BS detector antenna, whatever that is.

  253. Achems_Razor

    If you are giving advice/teaching, you are giving treatments, I do not have to go into a "gish gallop" type of reply! When you "teach" someone (personally) what ails them and how to make it better? that is the same as treatments.

  254. Bob

    Your individual mis-definitions and mis-interpretations of words don't concern me, that's your problem with communication not mine. You say you 'help' ill people become well, so yes, you do offer them treatment. Use a dictionary, you need to.

    Telling me you won't 'treat' or 'help' or 'charge', 'con' or whatever you want to call what you do, is pretty stupid when I just previously said I have no intention of giving money to con's like yours. That feeble attempted twist is noted.

    You 'diagnose' me as advanced.. nothing really... (yet suggest I have 'good luck fairies', another stup1d twist), after I have said I watched it go through 2 workplaces and had court proceedings (plural) Wow, your diagnosis of advanced was so difficult to work out....'superior'.. my ass. Just more dishonest representations from you.

    You are correct, people like yourself that prey on sick people, parasite is a term that accurately fits, do anger me. You are willing to play with gullible, often desperate people for your personal monetary gain. Parasites like you prey upon the weakest. For that there is no excuse or justification.

    You are a physical expression of much of what is the worst of what we can be, and to make that even worse, you disguise this con as 'help' to the people that need it most. So no D.Jack, I will stay here and point out that you are full of it, regardless of your childish complaints. Go trolling for victims somewhere else. Prison would be my preference, where you and your fellow conspirators belong. You'll no doubt find more gullible, weak people somewhere other than a website about documentaries. Too many here apply critical thinking, which is a big problem for your drivel.

  255. Bob

    Finally he gives the real reason why he can't give us any decent sources, he is his own source. Lol. D.Jack stated on here that he has "superior knowledge" on, well, all things medical pretty much, that as he now explains all comes down to his 'tin foil hat and BS detector
    antenna'. If it fits with his ideas, it's the "right side", as he clearly just said.

    Anyone here willing to accept D.Jack's BS antenna's over peer review?

    Over their own experiences and observations?

    Does anyone concur with his claim of "superior medical knowledge" compared to modern medical science?
    Or think his hypothesis that diet and lifestyle are the current cause of the spread of Ebola?

    Or agree with his hypothesis that Germ Theory is all a scam?

    That's what you are asking us to do D.Jack. Take your feelings as being more likely to be correct than all the evidence that contradicts you. Lol, yeah right.

  256. Doctor Jack

    When you've thoroughly studied a particular subject that behaves according to a specific set of principles or natural laws, outcomes are predictable. That's what I am referring to as a "built in BS detector". One can safely rely upon common sense. For instance, if I hear of a new Caribbean mosquito borne illness as has sprung up out of nowhere in the news today, my BS detector starts whirling uncontrollably whereas the average reader would most likely just take the article or information at face value. There's way more to that story than is being told.

  257. susan g

    "Healthy people do not get sick. End of story."

    Tell that to the nearly 1/3 of the people on planet Earth that were wiped out during the Spanish flu.

    Also, tell that to my 26 year old healthy father. Oh that's right you can't, ........he's dead. He contraced polio during the 1950's polio epidemic.

    You are a germ theory denialist. Someone who is stuck back in the eighteen hundreds.

    Well it's the 21st century and scientists have mapped the genomes of these viruses and bacterias. They know exactly the mechanism for how they infect the person and how they replicate once inside the person. Every day around the world scientists using electron microscopes take the virus apart, micrograph it and put it back together again. Through reconbinate DNA technology they have developed antibiotics that target only certain bacteria.

    There are scientists that have devoted their entire lives to making these discoveries about how the different diseases make people sick.

    I wish it were possible to make you put your money where your mouth is so to speak and splash some ebola infected bodily fluids on you. You have nothing to worry about right? Because ALL those people in Africa including the doctors and health care workers who have become infected with Ebola and the many who have died were just unhealthy. You germ theory denialists are at the same time the most ridiculous and funny AND evil.

  258. Doctor Jack

    Ok, so let me see if I have this right. You're saying that if I suggest one of my patients do some reading about the importance of sleep and they decide to get more sleep, that is a treatment?

  259. jackmax

    I have an extremely good BS detector and all my indicators are screaming at me that you are the king of BS.

    At some stage even you should be able to tell that your crap is not flying on this thread.

    You have stated your done a couple of times but as with everything else you have stated it is just more BS.

    Why don't you do all of us logical thinkers a favour and do what you have stated.

  260. Achems_Razor

    Yes, you are offering advice/teaching!!! for their (personal) well being? but you are nit picking with your "slippery-slope" sleep thing, what you are all about is portraying the absence of germs, viruses, anything at the subatomic level that may cause medical malaise to the body, and telling your patients? as you are telling us that no such things exist! Snake-oil treatments!!

  261. jackmax

    In actual fact due to your self proclaimed expertise with every known medical condition and the fact that you charge your "patients" a consultation fee by definition it is treatment, even when you may suggest something.
    You have tried to throw red herrings though out this whole thread.

  262. pwndecaf

    "If it's the real deal, I will know it. If it's not the real deal, my BS detector antenna on my tinfoil hat goes haywire." DJ

    Tin foil bs detector = if it sounds about right, it's right enough. Prove me wrong.

  263. Fabien L'Amour

    You don't believe evolution to be a principle of natural law?

  264. Doctor Jack

    Sure I believe in evolution but I was referring to physiological laws that govern, more specifically, human needs so that function is healthy.

  265. Doctor Jack

    You go with the peers o.k.

    I'll go with a cardiac surgeon who's been performing open heart surgery on people for 30 to 40 years, who has learned a trick or two in the field with both boots on the ground any day who knows what it takes to maintain a healthy cardiovascular system for life and for a longer life.

    Fu*k peer reveiwed.

  266. Doctor Jack

    You obviously don't know what the flu is. I'll give you a hint: It's not life threatening. You are a "good learner" though. You would do well on Jeopardy, giving all the right answers.

  267. Achems_Razor

    What!? do you say "Fu*k" also when you are TREATING your patients?

  268. a_no_n

    Actually it's widely accepted that the mark of the devil is money.

    well...in truth there is no mark of the devil because the devil is a medieval invention that appears nowhere in the canon of the bible.

    Also your allusion to prophesy is a heresy, if you believe in prophecy then you have to deny the existence of Free will (you can't have it both ways).

    also there are no laws that force people to have vaccines at gunpoint...there SHOULD be, but there aren't.

  269. a_no_n

    i take it that doctorate came to you via email.

  270. a_no_n

    it's his site, he can do what he wants.

    the only thing you're teaching is a master class in bullsh1t.

  271. a_no_n

    lol you're not giving your sources away for free...Why not?

    personally i think you're lying. I think you're a confidence trickster. I think you use peoples fears and desperation to extort money out of them.

    Any serious practitioner would be falling over themselves to give their sources and validate their claims.

    only con artists don't.

  272. Fabien L'Amour

    Ok, One last question, do you deny that Malaria is a mosquito-borne infectious disease of humans caused by parasitic protozoans and that it evolved from an earlier non parasitic protozoan?

  273. susan g

    So you would have no problem injecting yourself with blood that has been infected with say HIV, Hep C or B, or Ebola. All you would need is a clean environment and water?

    Don't bother answering. Of course you'll say yes, knowing full well we can't put you to the test. LOL!

  274. susan g

    The epidemiologist aren't saying Ebola "comes from bats". They are saying it is carried by bats among other things.

  275. susan g

    Says you.

    Just more meaningless dribble. Evidence talks, bull sh*t walks.

    You haven't succeeded in fooling most of us on here.

  276. Doctor Jack

    I wouldn't allow anyone to inject me with anything because there's no way I would know for certain what's in the syringe. But I would be willing to cut my finger and mix my blood with the cut finger of another who believes they have the above alleged micro organism that causes these various diseases. I could be medically tested at different time intervals and we would see who's on the right side of this argument. Of course the testers would be "peer reviewed".

    There was a licensed MD who was doing just this back in the 1990s. He was going around the country demonstrating on stage just what nonsese HIV was by becoming blood brothers with a guy who tested HIV Positive. He wrote a book about this scam and produced a DVD showing one of these hotel meeting room public demonstrations. He didn't get very far. After one such public meeting, he was having dinner with others in a hotel restaurant when he did a face plant in his soup bowl.He died instantly right there at the table.

    When you go f--king around with something with the utmost importance to the medical cabal, the multi billion dollar generating believe in contagion, there are consequences. Had he been allowed to fulfill his mission of proving to the American people that there is no HIV = AIDS, you would probably have heard about him but he didn't and you haven't because he was stopped, dead in his tracks practically from the get-go, poisoned to death, murdered.

  277. susan g

    Have you ever seen a person infected with the rabies virus that was bitten by an animal infected with the rabies virus? It's not a pleasant thing. And it's almost always fatal. But you say, "there's no risk of being "infected" with so called rabies virus or bacteria."

    Rabies is not a so called virus or bacteria.Rabies is a VIRUS period. It's not a either or.

    But hey it's just an animal that got into some poison and is acting aberrant. LOL.

    Doesn't it bother you that literally 99.99% of all scientists since germ theory was confirmed to now are at complete odds with your beliefs? Doesn't it seem implausible to you that all the brilliant independent scientists, Nobel Prize recipient, are also at odds with you? Have you ever heard of Koch's Postulates?

  278. Doctor Jack

    I'm not trying to fool anybody and no matter how many times you / other posters accuse me of "treating" my clients or scamming people who are vulnerable or calling me names or whatever, it does not have the intended effect because it's you who have been fooled and fooled big big big time!!! You've been brainwashed and, of course, are clueless to the fact, because if you knew you were brainwashed, you wouldn't be brainwashed would you. You are soooo brainwashed that the only thing you and the others can do is put me down.
    You can fool all of the people some of the time but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. You've made authority your truth instead of truth your authority.

  279. Doctor Jack

    No, I have never seen a person bitten by say a dog or a pig. I would imagine it would be a most unpleasant experience. Depending upon the pre-existing condition that a specific person is in, it's definitely possible they could die especially if they are medically treated. That would considerably increase the odds of death.

    No it doesn't bother me at all that "99.9% of all scientists since the germ theory was confirmed to now are at complete odds with your beliefs?" I don't buy the concept of Chinese Medicine and it's believed in by a billion people and has been around for 5,000 years. The number of people who believe in 'x' or length of time that they believe 'x' do not prove that something is valid. What it does prove though is how gullible most people are.

    You're wrong about all Nobel Prize recipients being at odds with what I know to be true.

    Of course I've heard of Koch's Postulates. Some of the disease "viruses" that you suggested I inject myself with have not met Koch's Postulates. One medical hack said that that test was so old that it was no longer valid. Exsqueeze me? I asked another medical apologist a number of years ago why the "HIV Test" only looks for antibodies to the "virus" and not the "virus" itself. Are you ready for this? Are you sitting down? She said, "Oh a test that actually identifies the virus would be too expensive". I know what bullcrap smells like and that was pure, organic bullcrap, a very big pile of it in fact. What a joke. Of course she was working for an AIDS agency and was just following HOTLINE protocols. And these people actually got paid for putting out this kind of crap. Every time they lie, they should have to down a shot glass of formaldehyde with a bite of lemon and some salt.

  280. susan g

    You continue to refer to your marks, ah,I mean clients as 'Patients'. This sounds dangerously close to practicing medicine without a license, This is a felony in the U, S,

  281. Samuel Morrissey

    Ok, before I can continue - what do you mean experientially? do you mean from personal experience and/or the personal experience of others? Or was it a typo and meant to be experimentally?

    I am not interested in subjective experience. Experimental evidence I would very much like to see however.

  282. Bob

    Did you hear the one about the guy with dyslexia that walked into a bra.....
    Well, since you're now onto fairy tales and such, a joke is just as relevant.

    Noted your MD has no name. That is just more of your usual BS, nothing to offer except your vague, uncheckable claim, that actually has nothing to do with Germ Theory, but has everything to do with your personal Medical Conspiracy Theory.

    One lesson you can take from this conversation though, Cold Reading people by just reading text from them is very difficult and obviously well above your current ability. It is much easier if you can at least hear their tone, as any good phone con-person can tell you. You're not as good a con as you think you are D.Jack.

  283. Bob

    And with that goes his point.... well observed and a very important point susan.

  284. Bob

    That is just like you. You think you have science's answer, when as you said, you were not talking to a scientist.
    The opinion of a HOTLINE operator is not the same as getting the opinion of a qualified group of relevant scientists.
    You are correct when you say it doesn't matter how many people believe something. It's all about an arguments sound logic and supporting evidence, of which you have none.

    All that space to just point out again that you are full of sh1t. We know that d.jack.

  285. pwndecaf

    Yeah, a name would have at least given us something to check. Did the guy exist, did he do "blood brother" tests, what's the name of his book, did he dive into his soup? What was the explanation given, was anyone suspicious of his death, was an autopsy done, was that suspicious? Instead we get more anecdotes that are not possible to check.

  286. pwndecaf

    I think he is trying out different bs on us so he can see what kind of response he gets, and then works on more bs to reply to the "Huh?" he gets as a reaction to that bs.

    Perpetual bs has been perfected! New and improved - more wordy than ever!

    I think I'm sick; therefore, I am.

  287. susan g

    Every comment I made on other threads that you allude to are taken out of context.
    If you are going to go into my Disqus account and pull up comments I've made please don't take them out of context. For instance you've taken a comment I made on a different site, a different thread, that was made to someone who was calling gays really vile names. Considering how hateful and bigoted this person was being, I think I was quite restrained. Your insincere question asking if I'm a doctor, religious expert, bla bla bla. Is pure snark. You aren't fooling anyone.

    Okay, so again you've been reading my posts on different topics. And you ask if I'm an expert? So let me get this straight. You believe no one is entitled to state an opinion on these forums unless they are an expert? Okay, got it.

    Here is the entire comment I made to the person who was bashing gays:

    "It is your opinion as dictated to you by your interpretation of your religion. Not many gays will deny that their sexual preference was wired in at birth. In fact everything pretty much points to this fact. It's been estimated that approximately 10% of the pop is gay. Oh and they are born this way. So if you believe in a god, you would have to say he made them this way. So how do you reconcile calling them perverts and worse? The gay people I know are among the most productive citizens I know. It's no one else's business what you or they do in the privacy of their own bedroom. Move on, get a life."

    You said this:
    "I just feel that the difference between you and me is that I implement the same thought on myself. In other words, you are equally conditioned to believe something, by whatever believe system that stipulates your doctrine."

    It's not the same. This person I was responding to, due to their religious beliefs (which they freely admitted to) is trying to deny gay people the same rights that he enjoys as a U.S. citizen. As for the tone of my response to him, it was very restrained. He was being openly hateful, bigoted, and judgmental. And why was he being this way? Because as he admitted, his religion tells him, actually commands him, to behave this way.

    And BTW by your logic because I am also shaped by my belief system,our beliefs are equal to one another. I certainly hope not! I will always stand up to the kind of hatred and bigotry this guy was spewing. People are entitled to believe in any religion they choose. They are NOT allowed to force their beliefs on others. Nor are they allowed to make laws based on their religious beliefs.

    Then you go on to say this:

    ":Are you all these things packed into one? Oh and one more question: Show me a traditional medicine that cures (read CURES...) Then if you wish I could tell you a thing or 2 about cancer being an old persons disease (as you stated and, which, is an incredibly ignorant, harmful and hiddeous statement to make)."

    Why would I answer such a sarcastic question?
    Then, as if there were any doubt as to where you are coming from, you go on to ask a question that implies that modern medicine has yet to cure a single disease. I won't even dignify that with an answer. Again that question reveals your true anti- conventional medicine position.

    Yes, cancer IS a disease that mainly affects older people. I never said ONLY old people get cancer. Even newborns get cancer. I'm not sure why that got your panties in a bunch.

    I find your entire post to be extremely disingenuous. From the beginning to the end with your closing valediction, "Peace and love"

  288. Doctor Jack

    Well, it could be both. I already told you about the two men, one a client the other a friend, who had openings appear above their ankles about the size/shape of a silver dollar where a gross oozing liquid appeared. They were freaked out but instead of contacting a medical physician they contacted me. One had done quite a bit of recommended reading but it didn't matter because when something distasteful comes up, FEAR takes over and what have we all been told to do when there's a perceived emergency - DIAL 911. Anyway, I explained what was actually taking place and they understood. So instead of going to a "doctor" they simply kept the area in question clean with clean water, applied gauze pads to prevent the ooze from getting on their clothes or sheets and that was pretty much it. Within a few weeks, scabbing formed and within a week or so of that, the scabbing fell off and new skin appeared and they both pretty much went about their lives business as usual...

    Now had they gone to a medical physician, they almost undoubtedly would have been injected with antibiotics and been told they had bacterial infections. Perhaps they would have been given a prescription for more oral antibiotics and told to schedule a return office visit in a week or so. If the infection hadn't cleared up by then, it's possible that a biopsy would be taken for further testing. And it's possible, from the biopsy, they might have been told they had the flesh eating bacteria and that if drastic measures weren't taken, it could spread to their hearts and kill them so emergency surgery needs to be scheduled immediately to amputate the leg just below the knee. So the patients believe the physician and they are scared sh*tless and even though they don't want to lose their legs, they comply. All the time money is being made - office visits, drugs and now surgery. But they are both grateful to the doctor for saving their lives. Medical care is not based on what's best for the patient but rather what's best for the profession.

    So there you have it. So experimental or experiential, who cares, which outcome would you want if you had been one of those two gentlemen? Scenario A - I gave them the correct physiological symptom interpretation, they chose to accept what I explained to them and the overall outcome was overwhelmingly successful. Or Scenario B, having your leg potentially amputated?

  289. Doctor Jack

    Yeah a local naturopath tried that. He was told he had no case. Free Speech.

  290. susan g

    I told you not to bother responding to something you know full well you would ever be held to the test. Your comment is meaningless because of this.

    Dr. Robert Willner an hiv causes AIDS denialists. His Florida medical license was revoked in 1990 for committing gross malpractice. He is better known for a cheap stunt where he sicks himself with a HIV contaminated needle. Of course there was no way of knowing if the needle was really contaminated. And even if they were, it is no where near a certainty that you would automatically become infected with any one stick.

    A statistically less likely, but still possible explanation is this. A very small percentage of the population carries a gene mutation called, CCR5-delta 32. People with this gene mutation can be infected with hiv, test positive, but they will never go on to develop AIDS. This phenomenon might explain why some people who are hiv positive never progress to full blown AIDS. The chances Willner had this are small but certainly not impossible.

    There are three times where he stuck himself with a needle allegedly coated in HIV-positive blood. The first was at a lecture in the Canary Islands on October 13, 1993. He repeated this stunt in October 1994 at an "alternative meeting" in North Carolina sponsored by a nutritional supplement company. The third time was at the Hollywood Roosevelt Hotel in California. He died SIX MONTHS AFTER he last stuck himself with a needle.

    Your conspiracy story about him being assassinated and dropping dead with his face in his soup bowl, right after performing one of his hiv needle stunts is a colorful one. The problem is it's not true. Like I said he died 6 months after his last needle stunt on April 15, 1995 of a heart attack.

    Since the discovery of the HIV virus and the discovery that it causes AIDS there have been literally millions of studies done on the virus. There is more known about the HIV virus than any other virus. Scientists understand in detail on the molecular level exactly how it invades the cell and how it replicates. The viruses genome has been mapped zillions of times. The virus has been grown and cultured in blood, brain, and many organ tissues.

    Your theory that the medical establishment just HAD to bump off Willner because his crackpot theory was about to threaten their profits is laughable. I can assure you Willner wasn't even on their radar. And if any legitimate doctor, scientist, or researcher HAD heard of him, they would have laughed at his sheer stupidity.

    Look, no one knows for sure just why Willner jumped the shark. It could be many things even senility. But usually when a doctor becomes so embittered with their profession it's because they feel they were unfairly treated.

    Wilber had several reprimands from the Medical Board before they finally pulled his license for good.One thing I know for sure is this. It is very hard to have a doctor's license pulled. They practically have to hit the patient over the head with a bat, before the Medical Board will take action. I think this is wrong and should be changed. But Willner must have been pretty bad. They must have felt he was a real threat to the safety of his patients.

    One final comment to you regarding your hiv causes AIDS denialism. Back in the early 80's when the AIDS epidemic began, I worked in the AIDS unit of a large hospital. Because it was in a large gay community it was one of the ground zero hot spots. I watched young men, one after the other, healthy one day, then infected with hiv and dead within 2 years like clockwork. Their illness pretty much followed the same course. I was at the bedside when too many to count passed. Then the ARV drugs came online and the people who would have been dead were now living 20 years and more.

    Even though the evidence is right under their noses, the denialist refuse to accept it. You people are dangerous! You tell others to stop the drugs that are keeping them alive.

    Then there are denialists like Christine Maggiore who was hiv pos.but got suckerd into the aids denialist community. She stopped her meds, got pregnant. Delivered a little girl. Against doctors advice breast fed her daughter. Refused to have her daughter tested. Her daughter died at age 3 from AIDS. Christine continued to insist her daughter didn't die of aids and that she herself was hiv neg. Two years after her daughter had died of AIDS, Christine died from AIDS related pneumocystis pneumonia. One by one the hiv positive denialists are succumbing to AIDS. The only ones I feel sorry for in this is the innocents, like Christine Maggiore's little girl Eliza . She didn't have to die at age 3 from AIDS.

  291. oQ

    The grand question is, can one heal the self by sudden change of life characteristics, habits, personality? and if so, how so? Shouldn't we be researching that sh$t already?

  292. pwndecaf

    Sounded like a diabetes induced ulcer to me. And that they were lucky they weren't farther along in the disease as healing is impeded, but amputation is far from the only option until very late. You are scary, though.

  293. pwndecaf

    Thanks for the REAL story about the inept and perhaps crazy doctor, and your personal experience, too.

  294. susan g

    Why is your screen name Dr. Jack? Are you trying to pass yourself off as a Dr.? Doctor of what?

    A word of advice for you. When 99.99% of the scientific community is at odds with YOUR ideas on pathogenesis don't you think you might want to reconsider? These people that you claim have it all wrong are some of the most brilliant and dedicated on the planet! I'm talking about scientists all around the world in Universities and the private sector. These are people who have dedicated their lives to understanding disease, how it make us sick and what will make will make us well. A person who would be capable of dismissing that much factual evidence agains them has to be one of two things.
    1) Mentally ill. i.e megalomaniac or a severe narcissist.
    or
    2) A con-man, selling b.s. to desperate, gullible victims of disease.

    I wouldn't completely rule out that you have both.

  295. susan g

    "Depending upon the pre-existing condition that a specific person is in, it's definitely possible they could die especially if they are medically treated. That would considerably increase the odds of death."

    What exactly do you mean by pre-existing condition a person is in? Why do you think giving standard medical treatment will INCREASE their chances of dying? Death from Rabies is relatively rare in the U.S.(mainly because of vaccines). And always happens in people who didn't get medical treatment. How could you have possibly come up with this claim? What is your source for showing that people who sought standard medical treatment when bitten by an animal with Rabies died more often than those who didn't seek standard medical treatment?

    " Some of the disease "viruses" that you suggested I inject myself with have not met Koch's Postulates. One medical hack said that that test was so old that it was no longer valid."

    First of all I only suggested you inject yourself with, HIV. It was another commenter that suggested you get bitten by an animal with Rabies and NOT seek medical help. Never the less BOTH met all of Koch's Postulates.

    HIV
    POSTULATE 1: The germ must be found in every person with the disease. In 1993, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta, Georgia, reviewed 230,179 cases of AIDS-like illness. Only 47 people tested HIV-negative, less than 0.025 per cent.

    POSTULATE 2: The germ must be isolated from someone who has the disease and then grown in pure culture. HIV has been isolated according to the most rigorous standards of modern virology. A small group of Australian scientists, the so-called Perth Group, claims that there is no proof that HIV exists. Then again, neither do the viruses causing influenza, smallpox, yellow fever, measles and many others, according to their bizarre criteria.

    POSTULATE 3: The germ must cause the disease if given to a healthy person. Obviously no one is going to deliberately inject someone with HIV, but in three separate incidents, US laboratory workers accidentally exposed to purified HIV tested positive for that specific strain and later developed AIDS.

    " I asked another medical apologist a number of years ago why the "HIV Test" only looks for antibodies to the "virus" and not the "virus" itself. Are you ready for this? Are you sitting down? She said, "Oh a test that actually identifies the virus would be too expensive"

    A number of years ago? HIV testing as improved greatly from "a number of year ago". The only one throwing bull shit around here is you d. Jack. Here are the facts. If someone goes to be tested for HIV they will first be given a preliminary test that looks for antibodies. The main ones in use are the ELISA and Rapid HIV Test. Because they are very sensitive tests, there is a slightly higher chance of a false positive reading.

    Every person who tests positive on a preliminary test will have a confirmatory test.

    There is the Western Blot, In this test, the HIV proteins are separated by size and electric charge and the person's serum is layered on the test strip. If the test is positive, a series of bands are detected which indicate specific binding of the person's antibody to specific HIV virus proteins. This test is only done in combination with the initial screening test.

    The second type of confirmatory test is PCR (Polymerase chain reaction test)
    This test detects the genetic material of HIV itself, and can identify HIV in the blood within 2-3 weeks of infection. It is also used for determining viral load (how infected the person is) and when to begin ARV drugs.

    "You're wrong about all Nobel Prize recipients being at odds with what I know to be true."

    I imagine you are referring to Kary Mullis and Dr. Luc Montagnier

    Mullis who did not receive the Nobel Prize for INVENTING PCR testing but for improving on a test already in use, has admitted to multiple LSD trips. Reports to have seen little green men on his front lawn among other kooky claims. Basically he has become irrelevant and to get attention and $$ he has become one of the AIDS denialists darlings.

    Luc Montagnier. This is really quite sad. This once respected researcher now well into his eighties has gone completely off the deep end. He tried to get a paper published in France extolling the benefits of homeopathy (sugar pills). He was literally run out of France by the scientific community. There was even talk of taking his Nobel Prize away from him. I think that would be wrong. He is currently living in China still researching homeopathy. The only explanation I can come up with is Alzheimer's/dementia.No, seriously he must be loosing his faculties. It happens.

    "Every time they lie, they should have to down a shot glass of formaldehyde with a bite of lemon and some salt."

    I think every time one of you snake oil selling con-men divert a person from getting the REAL medical help they need, you should be arrested and charged with theft and fraud. And if the person dies because they foolishly put their faith in your pseudoscience, you should be charged with negligent homicide.

  296. susan g

    " I would require an extremely clean and comfortable place to live."

    If your theory is that viruses and bacteria don't cause disease, then why would living in an extremely clean (meaning no bacteria, parasites, viruse etc.) matter. Afterall according to you they don't cause disease and infection. If your theory is all you need is a healthy body, and bacteria and viruses don't cause disease, what difference would it make?

  297. susan g

    "I would also require that my patients be provided the same high quality living standards as I would demand for myself"

    There you go with the "my patients" thing. They are not your patients. Perhaps you are nothing more than a frustrated doctor. As I read your post above I'm seeing someone who is a delusional, narcissistic, self important, megalomaniac.

  298. Doctor Jack

    Susan - My intention is not to irritate or upset you. And for us to be debating each other is futile because we both believe we are right. Perhaps truth is malleable. Perhaps we are both right. Maybe because I believe micro organisms don't cause illness somehow I'm protected. And because you do believe micro organisms cause disease, you are vulnerable. Now the truth is I don't really believe that but neither of us is going to change our position on the contagion thing. And it doesn't matter how many people believe in something, that's not proof of correctness either. Galileo sure thought differently than everybody in the civilized world but he was correct nevertheless and he didn't change his thinking did he? Up until the age of 38, I believed you caught diseases from germs but you've never believed any differently and you've actually been formally trained in the concept of germs = disease and you are never going to change your belief on that, ever times infinity.

    I read Willner's book probably 19 years ago. I did hear he died at the dinner table while on his 'HIV does not cause AIDS' tour so I did not make that up. And no I did not check to see if that might not be true either. You've relied on Wikipedia which is fine but the truth is neither of us really know if that information is accurate but, either way it doesn't really matter. I think he was absolutely right about the HIV thing but just like Christine Maggiore, just because he or she were correct about HIV not causing anything doesn't mean they knew what really causes disease or what disease actually is. I spoke with Christine after her daughter died. She told me what happened and it's not the same as what you wrote. From what she told me, it was apparent she didn't really understand what disease is and what causes it either. Poor thing, I only found out a couple weeks ago that she too died a couple years ago. You know neither her husband or her son tested positive don't you? Doesn't that raise a bit of a red flag to you? I mean she was a relatively young woman and was probably intimate with her husband, exchanging bodily fluids, and why would her son not test positive? Remember, by the definition you were taught and you believe in, HIV is highly contagious. It just makes no sense unless you question the veracity of the Elisa or Western Blot tests. And on that note, why on earth don't we hear about prostitutes having AIDS and dying like flies since this is a sexually transmitted disease? They're in the sex business having sex with many strangers probably six days a week and yet you don't hear of them being a big AIDS demographic.

    I use the word doctor in the original sense in which it has been defined, as a teacher. (Per the original definition of the word 'doctor' medical doctors are not doctors but rather physicians as in one who is skilled in the giving of cathartics or purgatives, or physics, etc) I'm a teaching doctor. In some countries attorneys are called doctors. Just as you've been taught and have either accepted what you've been taught, I offer to teach people what I've been taught and they either get it or they don't. Most of what I've learned came from physicians in the 1800s before the Rockefeller influence slowly began to change the lifestyle direction healthcare was going in. Surely you've read The Flexner Report. Anyway, ironically, most of the major discoveries made about human physiology were made by physicians who became drugless practitioners. Of course this was not popular because it threatened the very foundation of medical care - medicines. So these hand full of physicians instead of being held in the highest of esteem and spreading their findings near and far, they faded into obscurity. But not everyone forgot their incredible contributions to healthcare. There were a few physicians who took up their banner, became drugless teaching doctors and brought forth their teachings to this very day. Of the billions of people in the world, I'm guessing there are maybe 10,000 who've studied and ascribed to the beliefs I've adopted.

    As to your thinking regarding your above post, what I asked for was comfortable living conditions not an apartment that's been chemically disinfected or scoured from head to toe. Think say a suite in a Residence Inn - clean, comfortable, clean sheets, clean towels, clean floors, counters and so forth, a kitchen with refrigeration, stove, electricity, a fully functioning bathroom with normal american style plumbing, AC as well as heating maybe cable TV and internet. I would need easy access to fresh plant based foods such as lettuce, tomatoes, celery, cukes and so forth, nothing exotic just basic foods preferably organically grown no chemicals. I would work with people with 'ebola' and would not be required nor would I want to wear a chemically treated hazmat suite. Would I make a difference? It's tough to say but it's just as likely that I wouldn't as I would, as their living conditions are very undesirable - lack of sanitation, lack of comfortable temperature, what do they eat?, do they have electricity, do they have flush toilets? do they have the ability to shower daily? do they have clean unpolluted drinking water? Do they live in cramped quarters or do they have spacious surrounding? I don't know I'm not there but I suspect they don't. From what I've heard these are impoverished people living in squalor. I imagine their psychological state is pretty grim too.

    You know according to The Starfield Report, after heart disease and cancer, medical treatments are the third largest cause of death in America - 250,000 people a year. Now I don't know out of how many that are medically treated that number represents but, even so, that doesn't sound like a good risk to reward ratio to me.. You can do what you want of course, submit to whatever treatments you like but other than a couple of accidents I've had, I have not required nor wanted any other medical treatments since 1967. My parents had me vaccinated against the flu and within a week I had the worst case of flu I had ever had. Now that I know what the flu really is, I don't fault my parents for their ignorance as that was just monkey see monkey do, but I would never submit to such a barbaric ritual ever again.

    So I'm done here. Good luck with your health and your life ...

  299. over the edge

    sorry but you cannot portray this as a difference of belief. your side is absent of demonstrable evidence. The one peer reviewed source you did provide proved you wrong. While others here have provided links to and presented fully falsifiable evidence. Your side has provided nothing of value to the debate.

  300. pwndecaf

    He has 19th century ideas at best. susan g et al have torched his very limited collection of talking points.

    Nuff said.

  301. Bob

    Very interesting to read, thank you.

  302. Vlatko

    I have a suggestion for you on how to attract a whole army of crackpots and how to make yourself rich and popular and in the same time "help the world."

    1. Make a YouTube channel.
    2. Make a video every weekend of you infecting yourself with a deadly virus.
    3. Promote the channel and the videos while preaching your delusion anywhere you can.

    Now, to succeed, the videos need to be as realistic as possible. For example go in a hospital, find terminally ill, HIV positive patient, get a few drops of his blood and inject it in your bloodstream on the spot... of course while filming yourself, with a spooky music in the background.

    Next weekend repeat the process with Ebola while roaming the streets of Monrovia and kissing random confirmed Ebola patients, then proceed with Malaria, Anthrax, etc.

    Now, there are two outcomes of this experiment. The first one is you'll prove to the world that hundreds of thousands of scientists around the globe were simply wrong and you were right, and the second outcome is that you'll kill yourself in the process, and thus end on the evening news as "the lunatic who killed himself with viruses on YouTube."

    Disclaimer: Of course I'm explicitly telling you NOT TO ATTEMPT THIS because it will certainly kill you. I'm just describing the possibility.

  303. pwndecaf

    I wonder how many real, medical doctors try to hide behind the first amendment...or need to.

  304. over the edge

    I agree.. I am always amazed that people think that just because they voice an opposing view that it is just as valid. Without demonstrable evidence an opinion carries no weight. The attitude that we are free to believe what we want is fine. But when the general public is fooled by this "smoke and mirror" show it becomes dangerous and in many cases illegal.

  305. Doctor Jack

    Diabetes doesn't cause other health problems in other areas of the body like say an ulcer near the ankle as described herein. That's just one of many wrong medical concepts. One disease does not cause another; rather, they are all caused by the same factors and simply affect different areas of the body as disease is systemic. Diabetes is a latin word that means "to pass through", as in glucose not being pulled out of the blood stream and put into muscle tissue for work and in the liver due to an inability to produce and/or use insulin that's produced by the pancreas. Type II is totally diet and lifestyle caused and Type I could either be congenital or caused early on by the administration of drugs such as vaccines in infancy. This can still be mitigated, in SOME cases, with careful attention to diet and lifestyle factors without resorting to an exterior source of insulin.

    I don't pretend to know all the different ways medical "science" interferes with the human body. But any medical approach that would be taken where extraneous agents are applied or injected to treat what I've described would be the wrong approach and just result in worse problems down the road.

  306. pwndecaf

    Oh, right! Everyone wrong, you right...

    The fact that you can look up diabetic foot ulcer and see pictures of sores on feet in a circular shape have nothing to do with your reality. The guy you talked about was 270 pounds, as I recall. Certainly not at risk of type II diabetes, or circular sores on his ankle.

    And what do they recommend? Keep the feet clean and dry.

  307. Doctor Jack

    No I'm not the only one who knows that one disease does not cause another but apparently I'm the only one who knows this that you've ever come into contact with.

    Sores on feet do not automatically mean one has a pancreatic dysfunction. It could but not necessarily. My patient could have had diabetes at 270 pounds but as I've posted before, I don't diagnose or treat disease but rather simply recommend healthier ways of living. Even as he's lost down to a bit north of 200, he's not as deep in the woods as before but he's still in the woods. I'd say he's about 65% on the way to the best level of health he's capable of, given his unique history, and he may never get any further. That's up to him. I support and encourage but real health care is self care. No one else can do it for you. Of course he's way healthier than he was before he was referred to me but he still has a ways to go if he so chooses. Of course, you don't believe this but this gentleman, Mike, said that he considered it a blessing to have me in his life. Making that kind of a difference in other lives is extremely rewarding. We have become good friends.

  308. pwndecaf

    I imagine you've made a lot of friends. Probably lost a bunch, too, one way or another.

  309. Doctor Jack

    You're right.

  310. Fabien L'Amour

    Doctor Jack doesn't believe in autopsies which are just another manipulation of the truth by the medical establishment...

    I gave up on him a while back, anyone in the mainstream medicine practice is out to kill their patients in his mind and now he adds that some obscure power orders murders to hide his believed fantasies. Yet he has been rambling on for days about his knowledge and seems to still be alive.

  311. Bob

    Well, even Mike the headless Chicken lasted 18 months....

  312. medstudent12

    As a med student I can tell you that cancer is definitely not a cause of "old age" it, along with many other illnesses, are direct causes of our diet, life style, and genetic predisposition. I didn't watch this film, I was actually directed here from a previous comment you had posted calling Edison a "brilliant, creative man" and just wanted to inform you that that statement couldn't be farther from the truth. Edison was a greedy, selfish man who tried (and succeeded) in destroying Nikolai Teslas name and career. Tesla died penniless yet held over 300 patents and only wanted to better society not gain profits. Just thought I'd open your eyes! Please don't respond insulting me as you do with many of the people who you get into comment wars with. I just thought you may be interested in learning a more accurate historical version of this person you claimed to be so great, instead of regurgitating the information you have been spoon fed from a young age. It's not your fault, we learn a lot of inaccurate information, like that Thanksgiving (Thankskilling is more accurate) was based off friendship and peace instead of mass slaughter and pillage. Good luck to you!

  313. keia peterson jaggy

    how about you, go ahead and get every vaccine available.......let me know how that works out for you. & if they are so effective, you won't have to worry about the rest of us who are aware of the true purpose behind vaccines as well as what's in them. check Vactruth, then decide if you still wanna get shot up. it's as easy as buying ice cream at your local grossme store, along with all your prescriptions. best of luck to you

  314. keia peterson jaggy

    yes, i'd say it's in your best interest to look at all the pesticides, herbicides, mercury, aluminum, etc. do you see a need for those chemicals in a vaccine?

  315. keia peterson jaggy

    comes down to those who own/run pharmaceutical companies & chemical companies. polio wasn't a problem until people became exposed to the chemicals foods were sprayed with & of course the animals grazed on this as well, hence contaminated milk.....polio. BUT what the polio VACCINE did was give nearly 200million people cancer! perhaps it's time to read something someone's not paid to require you to read? just a thought..

  316. keia peterson jaggy

    Aho! "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food" -Hippocrates (wise man) So was Max Gerson, Rene Caisse, Hoxsey & so IS Charlotte Gerson, Tullio Simoncini to name a few....

  317. keia peterson jaggy

    i'm sorry for loss of your father. there is some info that may be of interest to you regarding how polio even began. it was chemical companies pesticides that got into the food system. when cows grazed on these, the milk became contaminated. the vaccine for polio may have helped a few? get rid of symptoms, but it paralyzed many as well as started a cancer epidemic.
    good read for you would be 'Dr. Mary's Monkey". also a website to enlighten you is jon rappaport's 'no more fake news'.
    as far as all these scientists you're supporting go, do you know who funds them? their studies? do you know what happens to the scientists who find problems with things such as a 'vaccine' & has the audacity to report these negative findings? they are either fired, blacklisted, or end up in the morgue if they're ever even found.
    this would explain why you feel so strong about what you've heard from 'the scientists'. 'He who survives the war writes the book' (i don't know who said this) but they are absolutely spot on! i just ask that you do some alternative research as not to find you've only fooled yourself in the end. best of luck & peace

  318. a_no_n

    way ahead of you there. i'm fully vaccinated already thank you.

    How about rather than checking obviously biased websites you check out a little place called REALITY.

    Polio - Gone
    Smallpox - Gone

    That's Vaccines 2 - Tin foil hat nut jobs 0.

    Also please explain why areas that don't have vaccines have much higher rates of those diseases and absolutly no reduction in the rates of...whatever moronic thing it is you think vaccines cause.

    I'd say best of luck to you too...but it won't be you who gets sick, it'll be some poor baby that you pass your gross diseases onto and kill.

  319. Mea Culpa

    Starts out well but after a while it's just a vaccine commercial. Turned it off towards the end.

  320. Peter JC

    I think there should be more attention placed on the real agenda of chickens. These seemingly harmless birds who form a major food source have recently been discovered to be capable of complex thought and calculus. Could this be the beginning of an avian takeover? Remember, bird is the word. This doco was shallow and pedantic, and I am bored.

  321. kalipi

    let us use our minds a little, there are movements from people that is above everyone else... they obviously want the population reduced, if we study our history, these kind of outbreak is unheard of before... only in our recent history that we see these kind of new deceases that is very suspicious and makes you feel that maybe it is engineered... example of a plague that i think had no human interference is the black plague that killed millions of people, people back then do not know how to dispose of their waste that made their surroundings and their critters bore deadly viruses that gave them their demise... now, since they gave the example of the spanish influensa as a new kind of decease carried back home by soldiers from WWI, it became a suspect to me as an example of a genetically engineered virus... since then, we have witnessed an explosion of different viruses and sickness that is unprecedented in history... they are making all efforts to sustain their purpose of reducing population and implement their modified version of darwin's "survival of the fittest"... sure, it may sound far fetch to you and may think i'm crazy and stupid, but some people see what's behind every major events in our recent history and can see past their deceit... all the wars they initiated, so they can count the profit from manufacturing war machines even if it means killing millions of people including children... study our history specially wars, imagine if hitler did not have the support from americans like prescott bush and henry ford; could he do what he did then? germany had nothing after WWI, the whole country was bankrupt. if not for the oil and money from prescott bush and the engines and trucks from henry ford, hitler could not have started one of the deadliest war campaign in modern history... these americans were never accused of helping and funding germany's war efforts, in fact, ford is up to this moment considered a patriot and the people loved bush that they even elected his son and grandson as president of the USA... now they are also killing us by new kinds of viruses that keeps coming out with new kinds of strain that is stronger than the previous and have become very fast and efficient in killing humans... sure, you can say that the words that i have written is nonsense and far fetched and nobody that has all the riches in the world will want to kill us for profit... just remember that when governments and the people buys these medicines in large quantities, it generates profits for the pharmaceutical companies which is owned by very large worldwide multi-national corporations who also happens to own those large military contractors... which incidentally owns the biggest media companies worldwide so they can dictate what kind of information the people receives... just look for the speech made by Pres. John F. Kennedy warning people about the shadow governments behind the governments...

  322. Henry

    Doc Jack,

    Is Earth flat?
    Was it made in 6 days?
    Is evolution a lie?
    Is climate change and global warming urban myths?
    Are people being brainwashed by secret groups that are everywhere?
    Is all reality contained in a book?
    Is that book your source and do you live by it?
    Are you a witch doctor?
    Were you part of the beat generation?
    Is Trump your savior?
    Are you going to vote for Trump?
    Do you believe you're the chosen one?

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