The Secret Space Program

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The Secret Space Program

In this documentary the authors discuss the secret space program, what it is, who is behind it and why? Is there a human civilization living off-world with highly advanced technology and knowledge about the existence of aliens? Why are we being kept in the dark?

They feature lot of people and attendees of the Secret Space Program conference in Amsterdam who also share their own experiences with UFO sightings. Then, they hit the streets of Amsterdam where the locals speak their mind about aliens, abductions and making contact with ET.

Since approximately 1980, a secret space fleet code named 'Solar Warden' has been in operation unknown to the public... Is this nonsense, is it a conspiracy or is it simply so sensitive that it will cause uproar around the world?

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245 Comments / User Reviews

  1. docoman

    Should also list this one under Comedy. No wonder it was held in Amsterdam. ;)

  2. SweView

    I believe most of it is true as in true of "personal experience" I myself have seen an ufo in the form of a light witch was not a meteor or a air craft. I dont speak about this but after seeing that many people across the globe have the same experiences es it relay makes you wonder. Maby they only show for those who truly believe they exist.

  3. Johny Murgas

    Nothing new, just people making comments...

    in 100 years We will be the Aliens if there's a change in political power.
    Aliens are either to smart or to stupid because we in between.
    I also don't believe the Annunakis had contact with Aliens making The White Superior Race, To me that's just the beginning of Racism, and UFO's in South America PLEASE, knowing by experience the stuff this people believe (The Virgin Mary on a Piece of bread, Human Sacrifice), There's still have Cannibalism in Peru and Human Organ Trafficking in Colombia...PLEASE

    Before the Aliens Come here we will fly out of space! I think that already happened!
    Maybe we are the Aliens!...

  4. Dwight Denney

    some thing is probably going on , too many people have seen something
    However I also believe the powers that be right here on earth have a vested interest in keeping Joe Average as confused and consumed as possible with religion and television drugs and war music and sport and gossip and idol worship and you name it if it gets peoples attention off what they are doing which is robbing you blind and poioning you mentally physically and spiritually here in the industrialized world and just simply murdering people enmass in the third world then it works for them, becuase if too many people start questioning, excuse me I should say asking the right questions then for them the jig is up. The right question what is money based on ,show me and why are you in charge inform me!

  5. AdamDocherty

    I guess like everyone I was right into these type of docos when I first started surfing the web - hehe in fact I still like to watch these conspiracy type docos but more for entertainment than anything.

    In over 10 years of watching I have never, I repeat never seen ANY conclusive evidence that UFOs, etc, etc exist... that is not saying that they might, it is saying that with literally millions of people out there with cameras, etc no one has managed to capture anything conclusive.

  6. Jack1952

    secret, why wouldn't there be, secret, secret, secrets, secrets, possibility, possible, if it's happening, I think, why wouldn't there be, could be

    This was in the first three minutes. I couldn't keep up. I like the word "clandestine". It sounds so secretive. They know they are right but they can't prove someone else's secrets...and if you don't believe it they tell you that you are close minded. A terrible insult in their minds.

    I still can't believe that adults will make stuff up to explain things they don't understand. Seen a bright light? Gotta be aliens...unless you're religious. Then it's the Almighty in all his glory. Or his angels. As long as you have an answer and a belief. "I don't know" will never suffice.

  7. capriciouz

    OMG, clearly you have implanted something in my head and are reading my thoughts... I was going to say that very thing! ;)

  8. qais_prince

    whats that in the sky in 00:22 ??

  9. I AM POP SLAG.

    I havent watched it but for sure it looks like a fine, hand-whipped, homespun from purest fibrous bulls*it yarn!
    and will come served with a garnish of delusion and profound stuff about quantum phenomena...
    to accompany this there will be moody xfiles noodly jazz danny elfman music- the narration will be faux gruff and serious like a movie trailer voiceover...there be lots of vague witnesses who claim to be ex cia and airforce and then theyll wheel out supposed area 51 worker and stephen king lookalike Bob Lazar...

  10. Paul Gloor

    Credible witnesses in the military could be misdirection. If you have a top secret research project, what better cover than to brush it off as UFOs so everyone who sees something is discredited as being a total whack job or conspiracy theorist... the two of which are not mutually exclusive.
    I wouldn't doubt advanced human developed technology that's being kept secret, it falls well within humanities particular brand of stupidity.

  11. Paul Gloor

    @qais_prince
    What you see in the sky at 00:22 is markers for a high tension wire. They are a requirement for tall structures and wires and low visibility situations to, obviously, improve visibility.
    Back in my home town you can spot them on, sometimes, hard to see wires crossing the river.

    There is actually a couple frames where you can see the wire, I guess it got blended with re-sizing the video.

  12. Geoffrey Grekin

    The only thing worse than gullibility in accepting anything anyone tells you is to be highly cynical to theories that don't conform to your your world view.
    This is because you learn nothing, (close minded)

    I'm so tired of individuals ending a debate with statements like lack of 'Evidence' or 'Proof' and dismissing with ease any unorthodox alternative viewpoint that doesn't conform to their train of thought.

    Ironically, i often find these same individuals blindly accept mainstream spin from familial orthodox sources without ever questioning their 'evidence' or 'proof'.

    Being open minded is not to accept anything that's told to you. Rather its about finding a balance, and actively engage in critical thought. If you don't agree with something, explain your reasons. Actively engaging in erroneous theories will augment your intelligence.
    Passively dismissing these same theories will not.

  13. docoman

    We already knew that. ;) lols.

  14. Jack1952

    Did you not read the litany of possibles and secrets I outlined. Check it out. I didn't make it up. If anything, I missed a few. Any expose that can't be more definitive than a never ending parade of "what ifs, could bes and why nots" has blatantly demonstrated that they have nothing concrete to talk about and are only speculating. I enjoy learning about life, people, this planet and the universe. If I took everyone with a "what if" story as a version of knowledge, I would never learn a thing about those things I enjoy. Maybe isn't knowledge. Could be isn't truth. It's an idea. Worse...its an idea that asks you to take certain articles at faith. I gave that up when I realized that Santa Claus couldn't possibly fit down that chimney.

    I watch stuff like this thinking that maybe someone will finally have something that has some meat to it. If they do, I will be the first to say "Wow. That's amazing". Nothing amazing about speculation. Any BS artist can do it.

  15. docoman

    You probably should re-read the post you're replying to. Jack didn't say anything about 'accepting anything anyone tells you'. He talked about people that "make stuff up to explain things they don't understand", and religious people. (who accept what their religion tells them, not 'anything' from 'anyone').

    He said, "...and if you don't believe it they tell you that you are close minded. A terrible insult in their minds."
    And then you go and call him close minded. lol.
    Maybe you should re-read your post too, the bit about 'actively engage in critical thought'.
    Listen to what the people interviewed in this 'doco' say. As Jack did in the first 3 minutes. Watch and listen to the 'Muppet' they interviewed, starting around 32:50. He's definitely ON something, and it's not this planet. ;)

  16. Geoffrey Grekin

    @ Docoman & Jack.

    Although I replied to Jack's post, my comment itself was not directed specifically at him, rather to cynical individuals in general.

    Nevertheless, The reasons for my reply was that I felt irrated by the fact that Jack simply watched 3 min of this documentary, (if you can call it that) of a space convention from random people.

    From his vast 3 min knowledge he's able to lump everyone who may have genuine anomalous experiences within every field as making things up, or plain stupid.

    "adults will make stuff up to explain things they don't understand. Seen a bright light? Gotta be aliens...unless you're religious. Then it's the Almighty in all his glory. Or his angels. As long as you have an answer and a belief. "I don't know" will never suffice."

    There is allot of crazy, speculative and erroneous people spouting about aliens, UFO's and paranormal phenomenon, but there also highly respected scenario's and individuals, They shouldn't all be lumped in with the idiots of the field.

  17. Jack1952

    Where did I say that I only watched the first three minutes. I gave up typing the words and phrases that suggest that he had no facts. I couldn't keep up without stopping the video and I'm a pretty quick on the keyboard.

    If I were to make a video of any type my introductory interview would not be with someone who has nothing but "why nots" and "secrets" as his main vocabulary...unless I wanted the audience to be dismissive of the topic at hand.

    There are some interesting stories surrounding the UFO phenomena. Unfortunately, nothing concrete has ever been produced. Therefore, we are still living in the world of "possibilities". This still isn't fact. Maybe someday it will be proven. Maybe not. I don't know. See how easy that is. I don't feel any less intelligent by admitting that "I don't know".

  18. docoman

    I agree, although I didn't see any interviewed in this show that I would consider worthy of respect on this matter, only the idiots you mention :(

  19. Hnakkuz

    I'm getting really frustrated by documentaries like this one. All talk bla bla bla bla bla bla and no proof what so ever.

  20. princeton

    U have not seen any evidence that Unidentified Flying Objects exist? So i suppose you know what they are.. because i thought thats y they are called Unidentified F.O.s

    By the by, are you familiar with the battle of LA in 1942 where a ufo appear off the west coast..that had the navy fire over 1500 rounds at it for over an hour. but it took no damage. and just left. that seemed like the most concrete case for me that something was being covered up, not sure it its aliens. government said it was a weather balloon... funny how a weather balloon can survive that many rounds and garner so much attention.

    Not saying that aliens are here nor that this is your position, but it amazes me when people refuse to acknowledge the secrecy in government.. knowing that personally most of us hold secrets... y would it be any different for government official who have a reputation for lying and greater incentives for corruption than we do?

  21. Wayne Siemund

    You, too, can look like a documentary film maker by simply using a camera and microphone and interveiwing anyone at any convention. Just make sure you break the segments up with cool graphics. Introdduction and ending segments? Who needs them.

  22. brianrose87

    If we consider but a few objective, observable facts, then we may come to a better understanding of the probability (not certitude) of the presence of foreign, intelligent lifeforms.

    1. According to current knowledge, life began on Earth ~3.6 billion years ago. This is conservative (as science always is) as it is the earliest evidence of life yet discovered. For comparison, the Earth was experiencing heavy bombardment by massive asteroids up until 3.8 billion years ago. In other words, life quickly established a foothold on a planet that scarcely resembles the docile planet we now inhabit.

    2. All life on Earth is composed of primarily Hydrogen, Carbon, Nitrogen, and Oxygen. The most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen, Helium, Carbon, Nitrogen, and Oxygen (in that order). See any similarities? You and I are composed of the most common materials in existence!

    3. Our solar system sits in the Local Spur of the Orion-Sygnus Arm in the Milky Way Galaxy. All aspects of our location are extremely common, and in no way unique. The Milky Way Galaxy is a barred galaxy with tens of billions of "relatives". In each of those billions of "relatives" there are billions of stars quite similar to our star system.

    4. It took life on Earth ~3.6 billion years to produce a species capable of searching for life around other stars, but the Milky Way is 13.8 billion years old. There is a 10.2 billion year gap of opportunity for just 1 out of 200,000,000,000 stars to replicate the rather common circumstances that unfolded on earth. Thats 200 billion opportunities over a period of 10.2 billion years to create a single intelligent species... I would buy that lottery ticket.

    The facts overwhelmingly point to the hypothesis that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the Milky Way. However, if intelligent life exists out there, and is capable (as we are) of locating life around other star systems this does not mean it can travel to, and visit, those star systems.

    Proximi Centauri is the closest star to Earth. It is 4 light years away, which is 70,388,352,000,000 miles. It takes humans 9 months to get to Mars, our closest planetary neighbor. Mars, at its closest approach to Earth is 34,000,000 miles away, or 0.000000483% of the distance to Proximi Centauri. Another comparison, Voyager 1 has been traveling at 31,000 mph for 35 years., and it is .00016% of the way to our very closest star. Space is vast; it is so vastly, vast that it is truly beyond the comprehension of any human. Even putting its incredible hugeness into numbers as I have doesn't do its incredible emptiness any justice.

    In my eyes, life in the universe is rather common because the only life we know of formed immediately after planetary formation, and is composed of the most common elements in the universe. Assuming chemistry and physics is universal, then so is life.

    The leap of faith is the prospect of traveling for thousands of years simply to get to another star, and that doesn't include the journey home. The speed of light is asymptotic. As you approach speeds that makes traveling throughout the galaxy bearable, your mass increases at an exponential rate. To travel at the speed of light you must be infinitely massive. This is convenient for electromagnetic waves because they don't interact with the Higgs Field, but rather problematic for things made of matter because we DO interact with the Higgs Field.

    I will surely get responses about how a sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic to a lesser mind. Bring an Ipad back to Medieval Europe, and you will be promptly burned at the stake. The thing is that Homo sapiens has a firm grasp of the physics of everything in the universe at our human scales. Theoretically, wormholes are possible, but the physics dictates that to open a wormhole you must take the amount of energy that the Sun will burn IN ITS ENTIRE LIFETIME, times it by 10,000, and use all that energy in a singularity of space and time. First of all, good luck doing that. Second of all, good luck traveling through that energy burst intact.

    The same reality is true for most other pseudo science solutions to long distance travel. The energies required are great when transporting a single atom, but impossible once scaled up to human size. This is also true for quantum teleportation, and other such prospects.

  23. Geoffrey Grekin

    First of all, Great Post!

    You are indeed correct regarding the possibilities of life in the universe. Even if the odds were 1 in a million that life could emerge in another solar system, than mathematically, the odds are greatly in favor that life would emerge millions of times over. (Considering the amount of stars/galaxies in our universe)

    Nevertheless, there allot of mitigating factors to our complex life on this planet-- (The moon, Jupiter, distance from sun, type of sun, planetary tilt, speed of rotation, chemical makeup, etc...) So many factors in fact that it begins to narrow the field considerably.
    of course many of these factors need not be true for life to emerge, but for complex lifeforms like us humans, it becomes more of necessity.

    However, if complex life did emerge in another solar system, their mental thought process would be so radically different from ours, that it would be unfathomable to imagine how they interpret and consider the universal laws.
    Considering what we call "Science" is a piecemeal collection of agreed upon ideas, ones which are always being tweaked, perfected and sometimes altered. Extraterrestrial minds would have a radically different approach to similar problems of space travel.

    Furthermore, even our scientific understanding has made some progress in this field,
    For example,
    Your correct in your assumption that going near the speed of light is highly inefficient. anomalies concerning the important aspects like 'time' and 'mass' don't bode well for anyone attempting to travel in this linear fashion.
    But already, many of our own scientists using mathmatics and greater understanding of matter (quantum/astro) are finding alternatives to the "Speed of light" limit. (folding space, wormholes, even theories of bending the universe to your will.)
    Of course many of these are theories, and equally impractical, requiring vast amounts of energy, but alternative ideas are slowly emerging with a greater practicality.
    And we've only just begun as a species to attempt to tackle these alternative theories of space travel. Our understanding has blossomed exponentially just in this last century alone, that many theories considered facts would have been inconceivable to the early scientists.
    And of course this is small fraction of time in relation to the life of our Universe.

    What could we as humans conceivably discover and exploit scientifically if we had another 300 or 400 years? what greater understanding of the cosmos's could enable us to find more practical methods to questions that once seemed impossible?
    There was a time not too long ago when many believed that landing on the moon would also be impossible...

    In conclusion don't be so sure that these long linear distances are barriers that limit all complex forms of life. Rather Extraterrestrial may simply of have had longer time to figure it out, while also coming from a radical different perspective that we might have missed.

  24. brianrose87

    Excellent post yourself my friend. You clearly have a rational and knowledgeable grasp of the limits of predicting what the future holds.

    Really what it all comes down to is how far away any intelligent civilization is.

    If intelligent life exists, but is reasonably rare, it may exist over 50,000 light years away. I could use the numbers example again, but lets try a different approach.

    Our understanding of physics isn't just a bunch of ideas and symbols. Those ideas and symbols accurately predict the movements of matter. Thats why its possible for us to launch a robot from Earth, and have it land, 9 months later, within a football field size target on Mars.

    To accomplish that goal NASA scientists have to take into account the smallest influences on the movement of the package. To accurately hit its target NASA had to measure the gravitational pull of Earth, the Moon, Mars, Jupiter, and the Sun.

    I'd assume that your erudite statement regarding science as "a piecemeal of ideas" refers to the incompatibility of Quantum Physics with General Relativity. Quantum Physics can accurately predict the interactions of matter and energy at the smallest of scales. General Relativity can accurately predict the interactions at the largest scales. The Standard Model breaks down in black holes because it must combine Quantum Physics (a black hole is a singularity) with General Relativity (because black holes have lots of mass).

    In that sense our knowledge is merely a splattering of ideas and invented symbols. However, human beings, and any potential alien life form, would not be quantum sized or star sized. They would be perhaps as small as the cells of your body, or maybe as large as a mountain, but they would still fall within the mass and size of the physics that we DO understand.

    If we didn't have an astonishingly precise knowledge of physics on our scale, then we could not build the Large Hadron Collidor, or get Curiosity to Mars. We have a firm enough grasp of the universe to know that matter cannot go faster than the speed of light, so let's assume that its possible with the right technology, to go near the speed of light. For comparison again, Voyager 1 is moving at 31,000 mph, or 0.0000462% the speed of light. So you would agree we have a long ways to go before we approach the speed of light.

    Lets say that intelligent life exists, but is reasonably rare. Within 5,000 light years of Earth there are over 600 million stars. If 1 in every 300,000,000 star systems contains intelligent life, then there is 1 other intelligent civilization within 5,000 light years of us. Even if that one other smart thing out there is only 300 light years away, they'd still have to travel for 300 years at the speed of light to get here. Keep in mind that the Milky Way Galaxy is 200,000 light years across, so we are talking on small scales compared to the size of the galaxy.

    Its entirely feasible that 1 in every 300 million stars has intelligent life around it. You mentioned all the unique and special conditions that Earth has, but remember what the Earth looked like 3.6 billion years ago when life began. Earth then looked nothing, at all, like it does today.

    Any body of water that did exist was near boiling, and there was virtually no Oxygen in the atmosphere (cyanobacteria did that trick later on). When we take a look around our solar system we see that moons are the norm, not the exception. Rocky planets (denser matter) forms closer to stars making the Terrestrial Planets (Mercury, Venus, Earth, and Mars), and Jovian Planets form further out (Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune).

    This is why Pluto isn't a planet, it's an icy dwarf. None of our circumstances including water and even a magnetosphere (molten iron core) are unusual. Its all the result of a rather common process of planetary formation. All planetary systems form under the same roof of chemistry and physics.

    It isn't a stretch to hypothesize that every 1 in 300,000,000 star systems has an Earth-like planet (remember we are talking about Earth 3.6 billion years). 65 million years ago an asteroid wiped out most life on the planet. 3.6 billion years ago impacts of that magnitude were occurring fairly frequently, yet life arose and continued.

    Ultimately, I sense we are on the same page. Our technology is primitive compared to something that can travel near the speed of light. However, even going near the speed of light you need hundreds of years for a one way trip. It seems there is no doubt that life is reasonably common in the universe, and, given enough time, life tends toward intelligence because its more efficient. So given that life is fairly common, and life tends toward intelligence, then if life exists for long enough an intelligent species will eventually come about. The question is how common are life bearing planets that are sufficiently old to harbor intelligent life, and how far away are they.

    I find it fascinating to imagine that somewhere out in our galaxy another being ponders the same thing.

  25. tawni007

    Having had my own experience, I just wish we were as smart as we think we are. We are not alone and never have been.When i think about it, I think we are just but infants in the universe.

  26. tariqxl

    The Japanese have broken the speed of light??? Please if anyone has heard anything at all whispers, theories, anything at all I'd love to hear about it. But for now and probably even then... I'm callin Bulldung.

  27. Jack1952

    Now, that was a sensible and rationale comment...something that one could discuss with actual realities that could lead to a possibility. Inter galactic travel is not an easy proposition and may well be impossible. It will take a great deal of study and investigation before we can definitively have any answers.

    A scientist is nothing more that a student. When I started school, I didn't know a lot about the world. If I wrote that five plus two equals eight, my teacher would tell me that I am wrong and to try again. The top scientists have reached the point in their education where there are no more teachers to teach them. If they want to learn more they have to figure it out for themselves. Like a child student they are bound to make mistakes learning about how the laws of science work. That is why their ideas change. They are learning and the frailties of being human keep getting in the way.

    The people in this video would help themselves infinitely more if they studied the realities of science so they can ultimately understand what it is that people are seeing. It would be a great deal more helpful than babbling on about secret programs and their own wowie science. Unfortunately, study is tough and its probably a lot more fun to approach these questions at UFO conventions than in a lab or classroom.

    I've seen something in the sky that defies explanation. I'd like to know what it was but I don't think getting together with a bunch of people who have also seen something strange and collectively jumping to a conclusion is going to give a rational answer.

  28. SilverBlack

    I truly think that why the so called powers that be think that we would not handle the disclosure of the truth is shown right here with closed minded people argueing amongst themselves as all they state is " evidence " " proof "
    It's like the many lies on this planet such as religion! One of mans greatest cons or " bulls*it " going, no proof of s*it but you all except this as ok but look how many brainwashed m*rons waste their precious time praying to nothing and wasteing their lives and money for a con...and even go to war. If any of you actually get your hands on some decent night vision goggles ( military grade would be advised ) you will acually see what is going on yourselves!!! " PROOF " but all you want is someone else to get the proof for you, if you listen to RH you are the 98% that do nothing. I spent many many years in the military and we have been advised many times to ignore and forget, personally myself i have only told my family, but if you truly think that we are alone and there is not secret off world missions being kept from the public, i would just go back to your humble lives as you truly wouldn't handle the truth. I/we ( being my fellow troops ) have seen what you wish/crave/desire but what would you want me to do as there is media blackout on this matter and have my family ridiculed at school and in the street. I have saw them very close up but i have no evidence so does this make me a liar or a fantasist??? My family know what i know, they have seen what goes on in the sky with my goggles, all we do is now wait to see, no more, no less........( My kids are fasinated by them ). Technology is so far advanced within the secret government it would make George Lucas envious....You really need to open your minds people as the truth is out there....You are living as sheep, how they want you....I will not get into a slanging match with any of you, but as you are not me, don't try to tell people what you do not know, understand or have never seen or could even comprehend. You really wish you had though my friends, they truly are breathtaking...........

  29. docoman

    There are 2 common definitions to the term UFO. The grammatically correct definition, Unidentified Flying Object. (Meaning ANYTHING 'flying' that you can't identify). And 'UFO', a 'flying saucer'/craft of probable Alien origin. In the following, I'm using the 2nd definition.

    I agree with you. I haven't personally had a 'UFO' experience of any significance, but I do accept that 'some' of the reports of some people are genuine experiences with something very 'weird'. I think that many, if not MOST can be explained in other ways, many people are too quick to jump to conclusions without enough evidence.

    I think when you apply Occam's Razor to the competing 'answers'/theories, ET's become unlikely. I think that it is much more likely/reasonably explained by 'restricted/secret' human inventions. (of which there are numerous presidents) The timing of most modern reports, (late WWII and onwards) with the known/theorised level of our technology, is quite telling I believe when taken into consideration. I don't see the need, either with genetics or 'UFO's' for ET's, and as some previous posts have pointed out, there are problems with the logic of 'that answer'.

  30. docoman

    A question to anyone that may know more. I've been looking for a site I read when I first heard about Zero Point Energy, talking about scientists' estimates/trying to quantify the amount of ZPE.
    If my memory serves me correctly, I believe I read that one of the more recent estimates (which I think fell in the 'moderate' range of estimates) of the energy/amount of ZPE contained in 1 cubic cm of 'empty' space. I think it was the equivalent of 1 million x's (times) our sun's output, x's 1 million years.

    If that is anywhere near accurate, then IF one was able to access that energy it would make our nuclear energy look pretty weak, and IF it is theoretically possible to cross vast distances of space if you have 'enough energy', there may well be a possible 'power source'.

    Yes, a lot of 'ifs'. I'm not saying it can be done, and I personally doubt it is being done, to the best of my knowledge. Just that it may not be beyond the realms of possibility, even with our currently limited, 'young' understanding of the way our Universe functions.

    Edit- that last bit sounds wrong on re-reading. I'm saying that our currently limited knowledge doesn't necessarily preclude the POSSIBILITY of 'cheating' distance/time with a better understanding/more knowledge. We're still learning.

  31. Jimmy Pham

    Sometimes I imagine how our universe has gone through eons.. and how it used to be smaller, when things were closer to each other. I imagine civilizations visiting one another, a universe booming with life and interaction. Then eons passed and the universe kept expanding, getting darker and colder, things moving further away from each other. Civilizations came and passed without ever discovering one another because of the vast distances. And we, Earthlings, are one of those unlucky civilizations who came later and might never experience contact...

  32. docoman

    Have you personally been 'off-world'? Or actually seen what can only be an ET, is that what you mean when you say 'them'?
    You mention seeing some 'weird' things, and I don't doubt your honesty. But does that automatically make it Alien in origin? You'll have to excuse me if you (someone I don't personally know) say 'trust me, I've seen it' isn't enough for me. I need more then that. Again, not calling you a liar in any way.

    Edit- in fact, you have my respect as an 'ex' soldier.

  33. docoman

    An interesting point. If the rate of expansion (of the Universe) is speeding up as the evidence points to, that would infer that back when things were closer, they moved apart at a slower rate. (having the result of at least shorting the distance problem) I hadn't really considered that interesting observation. However, I still fail to see anything strongly indicating that ET's have/are visiting here, even if it was theoretically 'more possible' in the past.

  34. Robert Myrland

    The name for the spacecrafts of alien sort is: Beamships.

  35. harry

    An interesting doc but i wonder if the whole alien business is being staged managed by some very influential,erudite and eloquent guest speakers which keep the whole bandwagon rolling,surely there is nothing to hide they are only our neighbours in space why would they want to hide from us.
    I think if they are real one place where they could be is in antarctica they could arrive and leave completely undetected just like dropping off the end of the world just my thoughts.

  36. babby660

    If anyone has surpassed the speed of light we'd all know it. Major headlines all over the world.Go ask the folks at the Large Hadron Collider.

  37. babby660

    I was only 2 years old in 1942, but I'm kinda surprised my parents never heard about this! In fact, I distinctly recall discussing the possibilities of space flight with my mom in the late 1950s -- she didn't believe it was even possible.

  38. babby660

    "Clap if you believe in fairies."

  39. Stevie_Mc

    Maybe our time will come - our galaxy is on a collision course with Andromeda galaxy :) Also - the ever increasing distances of the far away galaxies may not be insurmountable, the lightspeed barrier may not be so universal after all - Cerne scientists have found particles that may travel faster than light...
    Whenever science throws up boundaries sooner or later it tears them down again - wormholes have been found at the molecular level. We still know so little about the universe.

  40. Deborah Moderate

    I think your being rather intolerant. This video is recording what other people think about Aliens. It is straight to the point, honest and harmless. There is no need to demean these people nor the country in which their convention was held.

  41. Richard Pratt

    our collision with Andromeda will not be for 5 Billion years. Cerne scientists did NOT find tachyons, faster than light particles. No wormholes have been found either. Get your science straight Stevie.

  42. walterwill

    If an alien civilization will pay my taxes they'll be more than welcome.

  43. Richard Pratt

    Couldnt'they interview these people in someone's quiet library? The background noise made me shut it off at 20 min. Shoddy work.

  44. Rocky Racoon

    Well 2012 has come and gone the only thing worst is our repressive governments and their war machines. That we have to do something about.
    RR

  45. Deborah Macaoidh-Selim

    There's never a vid embedded when I use this site (not the site doing it, btw), so I always google the title. There's a bunch of speaker vids for this conference if anyone wants to check them out. All are nearly 2 hours long or so. If anyone besides me has to find the vid elsewhere, make sure to add the word "Amsterdam" and look for the one with the right length as stated above. There's other vids, too, having nothing to do with the conference. There's not a lot of people alive today who would say there's no possibility at all that any humans have been contacted or will be contacted at some point. With the Internet and prevalence of cameras, it's hard to ignore. Visitations, even complex interactions, with UFOs might have been happening throughout human history, but we had no way to observe or record them. Exciting knowledge! This could be a gradual introduction, too. I also heard that there was a poll last year asking what would you say to ETs who might be listening, and 75% answered "help". So, at least from that portion of their society (I guess average Americans or "first world" type people--sorry if that's offensive, but such a concept is probably not even on the radar of importance for, say, South Sudan refugees), they not only open to the idea, but would be dying to talk to them to find out what they know. I think we'll all be somewhat frightened, because who knows what they think about or how they see us? But 20 years ago, when I first read the Betty and Barney Hill story in Parade magazine and my dad told me aliens were actually demons, a visitation would have sent me straight to his shotgun, whereas now I just want to know.

    Think Childhood's End by Arthur C Clarke. I find that book to be ridiculous in certain places, as well as naive and condescending at the same time, but it's a good strategy. I wouldn't be surprised if something like that was already in the works (if they exist, that is). Why else does the US government have a prepared answer for Barack Obama if anyone asks if we'd been contacted yet? It's obviously enough of a possibility that someone in the know wants the President to be prepared to answer the question in such a way that makes it clear the public is being protected, or that he won't have to unintentionally or intentionally lie, or that a known standard answer it all we'll get right now but that they've got their ducks in a row, just in case ETs are real. Look up the response when Jayden Smith, Will Smith's son, asked President Obama about it while the three of them were visiting the White House war room. It made me feel kind of happy. I hope it happens before I die, that tipping point of gradually increasing info finally reaching critical mass... Does that make sense?

    P.S. Even an obvious sighting could be faked with our level of technology, and people lie, so personal experiences aren't going to be the catalyst for global realization. This is why growing awareness is critical. I wish I was working with the governments sometimes, lol! I have a family friend (career military/soldier/administrator) who works at the HAARP facilities, as well as a Marine brother. I asked them both to promise to tell me if they ever encounter proof of ETs within the bureaucracy or have to assist security and field observation for crashes or interactions, and they were both like, "Nope." LOL!

  46. docoman

    I did mention Amsterdam, tongue in cheek, inferring to their comparatively lax drug laws and how some of those in this 'doco' look and sound (both in the slurred speech, red glassy eyes, and disjointed logic and conversation) like they've been taking something. I accept it was partly a cheap shot at comedy. So what.
    If you can't see that in some of those interviewed, especially the person I mentioned, oh well.
    Don't be so precious.
    If they want to pass easier drug laws then most of the rest of the planet, they should expect a certain amount of jesting on the subject. Big deal. HTFU a bit, it's more of an observation then attack.
    And to the person I mentioned, starting at 32:50. And the rest interviewed, did you actually listen properly to what they said, and their word's meanings? Not one that I heard said anything, anywhere near as logically error free and sensible as the post by brianrose87 earlier.
    If those interviewed were a decent cross-section of those that attended, it was more of a 'ET' aka star trek convention, then some reasonable, rational discussion of the topic/s.
    Again, you'd probably get a better 'high' there then discussion. ;)

  47. FreeRangeRadical

    I watched this expecting some sort of journalistic integrity, but it was blatantly absent. I wasted 59 minutes of my life watching this and learned nothing that you can't find in 59 seconds on conspiracy websites. Even the interviewees lack any credibility whatsoever and that becomes clear in the opening moments, and repeats throughout.

    Garbage. This shouldn't be called a documentary. High school media classes produce far higher quality video than this every day.

  48. ShadowMan

    This is the correct term from me when identified as not UFO.... personally I now call them; EAC's: Extraterrestrial Arial Craft....piloted by non-human entities, no longer ‘unidentified. I have had many sightings, (over 50 sightings) of EAC’s and some encounters with aliens, (scientific term: EBE; Extraterrestrial Biological Entities.) They are here for their own gain, their own agenda. They’re not interested in interacting with us, like a full direct contact for example, they are here for their own motives and maybe raping our world of our resources!

    This is the price to pay for being a lesser intelligence! Let's hope they don't do badly to us, in a way that's irreversible.....And what about the 1000's of EBE's sightings that people have seen over the years, are US military personal dressed up in ET rubber costumes to fool people? And also their,10ft or 3 ft in stature too!...& don't forget, people around the world have been sighting EBE’s with or without their space craft for 100's & even 1000's of years now!

  49. docoman

    I wish I would see one. I've spent a fair bit of time in my life camping outside at night, and not seen anything other then the usual shooting stars, aircraft or human satellites myself. I don't doubt that people have seen weird things. Have you recorded any of your experiences? If not, you seem to be a 'regular', can you try to record something?

  50. Jack1952

    I have no idea how to respond to a comment like yours. I would never call you a liar. You seem quite sincere. I could say that you're deluded but I don't know you and am not qualified to make such a judgement. I cannot help but wonder why you're not making a comprehensive video library of these sightings. Why you're not getting together with some of your military buddies who may feel threatened by such activity and collectively try to obtain the proof so that the rest of us can know what is going on. You call us sheep but what you don't realize is that we haven't seen the phenomena you're talking about so why should we think its true. I can tell you that I've had coffee with Santa Claus every Christmas Eve but unless you see the proof why should you believe me...even if it is true? The only reason you believe in this secret program is because you have seen the evidence or at least you think you have. Why not accord us the same privilege? In your own way your contributing to their agenda by not offering us the proof that you say you have.

    I am a country boy. I have camped in remote areas and closer to home where there is a military base all my life. I've only seen one strange thing in the sky in over forty years of laying on my back and looking up at the stars. Maybe its just my bad luck but I don't understand why your luck is so good.

    Your comment is what is call anecdotal evidence. It does not meet the criteria of proof unless it can be backed up by physical evidence. Not saying you're wrong or a liar but am only pointing out how the rules of evidence work. Truth may start from an anecdote but can only be complete when it is corroborated.

  51. tariqxl

    Nice bit of reading didn't know that but it isn't breaking the speed of light. Might possibly help João Magueijo prove his VSL theory.

  52. dmxi

    staring into the sky helps 'them' to let us ignore whats happening down 'here',
    always in hope for an external problem solver.

  53. Saydi

    docoman, Have you watched Fallen Angels and The New World Order Defined? If not that may explain to you exactly what these beings are, and I don't think you would want to see one. Please be careful what you wish for. Fallen Angels has people with first hand knowledge on these demons.

  54. docoman

    G'day Saydi. Yes, I've watched most of Fallen Angles. I didn't quite make all of it. I grew up hearing and being taught many of those principles and ideas.
    With all due respect to you and your right to believe what you wish, I have too many problems with what I consider an illogical, dogmatic and ultimately impossible answer as Fallen Angles proposes, and discarded those as probable answers. That was my take on it, and I concede I don't have the answers and may well be wrong. (hence my Agnostic stance on the matter of religion)
    Thank you for pointing out what might've been a new idea for me though mate. :) Some others here might not have seen it and will check it out now.

    If I could see something myself that I couldn't explain, it would confirm to me beyond any doubt that I can trust others when they say they've had those experiences. I'm not saying anyone is lying, I'm saying it's easier to agree if you've seen it yourself. If it's something unpleasant, others have survived it, I would too. You are correct, we have to be careful what we wish for sometimes.

  55. Carl Hendershot

    Can you give me a link. If anyone has anything new, please let me know. Thank you. (moderator, no personal email addys please)

  56. Carl Hendershot

    Innocuous ignorance retorts morality nefariously and does not constitute common sense. Meta-ethics will only end up regurgitating societies sickness to the feeble youth. Reminds me of Agatha Christi's The Pale Horse. In this case(pun intended on case) you fail to realize bad things happen to good people. Now the real question is what do you intend on doing about it?

  57. Helen

    as soon as I heard Richard Dolan claim that the NSA had a supercomputer which ran at a clockspeed of 600mhz in the mid1960's .. I just tuned out and turned off... Utter tosh and tripe.

  58. docoman

    Really mate, what sort of silly post is that? Getting a few 'big words' from a thesaurus and trying to string them together does not make a sensible, coherent sentence, and is far from 'common sense'. It actually works against your motivation to try to seem intelligent.
    And unless I'm quoting, I do you the courtesy of actually composing this now, not 'cut and paste' as you did. Rather happy with your composition mate? Or are you plagiarising it? Interesting though, how you transposed that straight from an anti-racist comment to defending your beliefs on UFO's. You changed the last sentence though. So what will I do? I will try to make some sense of your post. ;) And even though your 'cut and paste' effort doesn't really warrant it, I'll answer you, unlike those at youtube.

    I disagree with what seems to be the gist of your post, in the current context. It's not asking too much to require a reasonable level of evidence accompany extraordinary claims IMO. Mislabeling the requirement of evidence as Meta-ethics still does not negate the responsibility to provide evidence with statements, to demonstrate the logic that arrives at that conclusion.

    Why is it so hard to ask and expect reason and logic on this subject? There are so many different, many illogical claims, so many 'fakes', so much BS on the subject. People like yourself, that come up with BS like your post was, are the same on this subject as are religious people with religion.
    Why is it a crime to try to approach the subject with logic and critical thought? Why are these claims above critical evaluation and inspection? Why so hostile if you're even asked? Is it because, as a religious person is, you are somewhat afraid of approaching your 'BELIEFS' with a critical eye?
    I've conceded I don't have the 'all inclusive knowledge', the 'correct' answers with possible ET's and UFO's. I'm only asking questions, and occasionally commenting on some of the offered answers.

  59. War Dog 666 - U

    Get yourself a pair of inferred binoculars and begin looking - then you shall see for yourself. . Some time ago I witnessed a large disc shaped craft, (300 feet in diameter +/-) on a bright clear day. The craft was seen by thousands of people. The craft most certainly was alien in nature, because I viewed it from approximately 500 feet away and did my friend. The craft flew by low elevation no higher than 150 feet at a very slow rate of speed (approximately 80 mph). Most importantly, the event was viewed by hundreds of county employees and the police... The next day there was (nothing) on the local news outlets about the incident, it was as if the incident never took place yet there were thousands of witness that saw it on a clear and cloudless bright day. . Years passed, then I came across one of the witnesses who told me he saw the same spacecraft when he was 8 years old as the craft slowly flew by his house while he was playing outside on a second story house deck. . It upsets me when people say it's impossible for aliens to be here on Earth, in fact I find such conversation insulting - oh well, it's just the type of thing one has to see for themselves I suppose - good luck.

  60. docoman

    I agree with you, for anyone that says it's impossible for an ET to come here it's pretty silly and close minded. I never said that. (I'd also suggest that to accept ET's are here without some decent evidence is also silly) I completely accept that there are UFO's, such as the one you've seen. It's not incorrect to observe there are many mistakes and frauds in circulation as well.

    The only problem I have with what you said, is that there is a jump from "a very weird, completely new to you, non-naturally occurring craft' fly over that you and others saw, to it was definitely Alien. (meaning ET)

    I don't doubt you, I'm not saying you're deluded or dishonest, and I agree that you have a right to feel insulted when people do say incorrect things about you. I just don't see how that HAS to be of ET origin, and not human, is what I would say to that. I also would like to have seen what you and others have seen for myself, to help me have more information to be better able to make my own judgements. I'm not intending any insult to anyone that is honest and logical. IF you read what I say you should be able to see that, if not then it's being interpreted different to how it's meant.

  61. GRUMPY25608

    Correct me if I'm mistaken, UFO's are unidentified flying objects. Your EAC's are now in your opinion, IFO or identified flying objects, if that is the case please lead me in the right direction to discover this documented evidence that supports your theory.

  62. Katnea3

    I agree with you 'War Dog' as far as using binoculars for better viewing of UFO's etc. However, you don't need to use any special inferred binoculars though. All anyone has to do is to look up with the NAKED EYE for large 'stars' that are twinkling and/or strobing brighter then regular stars. However, only by using a cheap pair of regular binoculars will one be able to see the really bright colors (Red, Green, Gold, Blue and Silver etc) flashing within these objects. You will also see these UFO's move about after a while. Sometimes they glide along and sometimes they move incredibly fast! Sometimes they simply stop and poof they've disappeared only to reappear somewhere else in the night sky. At times I've seen smaller objects come out of the these objects as well. Either way... the UFO craft(s) are real and anyone can view them every single night IF they only take the time to LOOK UP.
    BTW - I picked up a pretty good pair of binoculars at the "Goodwill" store! However, I'm sure that I had lucked out in finding that lil treasure.(grin) Also, Its a good idea to always keep an extra set of binoculars in the car as well.

    NOTE: If you do spot a low flying UFO and wish for a up close and personal view....just remember to be careful what you wish upon yourself! The ET may do as you ask! I know this to be true as it happened to me! While driving out in the country one night, I had spotted a UFO and started to follow it. I finally asked it to stop moving so I could catch up with it! Well it did just that! It stopped and began moving towards me! This event frightened the bejebbers outta me so much that I was sure I was going to have a heart attack! Anyway, I slammed on the breaks and screamed "STOP-GO BACK" and thankfully they did stop! After much of my fear had subsided, I felt embarrassed with myself for even making such a request! I then communicated (mentally) I was sorry for making my request upon them and that I wasn't ready for that type of engagement yet.
    Shortly after my mental apology, the UFO began moving in the direction it was originally headed. Now then...you can either believe me or not... it makes no difference to me. I simply wanted to share my advice with others. Please remember that the ETs may very well respond to your requests! Hope this helps...........

  63. ShadowMan

    ...That's right in your pointing out as "IFO” now we have 'identified' the flying object as an intelligently controlled craft, as for your "lead me in the right direction to discover this documented evidence...." even if I present such evidence, you will probably deny it anyway, I know what I saw to be true, that's enough for me to satisfy me. There are thousands of 'evidence' of proven identification of EBE driven flying craft, but always debunked.

    Check around on youtube, Google etc, look at all the evidence, decide yourself. When you see an IFO and it isn’t human made, it disappears in front of your eyes, or moves across the sky in seconds, it’s more likely to be an EAC piloted by EBE’s. Do you believe we have this technology to do those things now? Anyway, as I have mentioned in my last post, people sighting 10ft or 3ft beings, well you can’t argue there can you!

  64. Katnea3

    After watching Dr. Steven Greer's documentary called "The Disclosure Project" back in 2001... I hadn't anymore doubts that UFO/ET'S are not only real but are here with us now. Having said that.... I read that Dr. Greer is soon to release an even better ET 'truth-bomb' documentary film called "SIRIUS!" I've also read that Dr. Greer's documentary will not be offered via the usual mass media outlets due to the information within this film. Until then we wait for its release..........

  65. AdamDocherty

    Like I said in my post, I am not in a position to say whether they exist or not. I do find it strange that there is nothing completely conclusive with millions of people carrying cameras around.

    Look at youtube, you see all sorts of amazing coincidences filmed, where are the UFO's? I am not talking about shaky, grainy, blury images of lights, I am talking about crystal clear images of a UFO hovering above someone.. all you see is hoax, after hoax, after hoax...

    Yes I am familiar with the battle of LA and while it is strange, why has there never been anything like it again? The amount of people saying they have witnessed UFO seems to imply that the sky is absolutely crowded with them... why have I never seen one? I am always looking at the sky cause I love clouds, always have since I was a kid, never seen anything strange.. nada, nill

  66. GRUMPY25608

    To my limited knowledge 'hearsay' or 'because I said I did' , has never been acceptable as evidence. Documented evidence is required it seem in all other aspects of life except for religion and 'UFOs'.
    Checking out youtube or google may not be the best reference to your arguments, as I'm sure if I wanted to talk to 'GOD' all I would have to do is google 'GOD". I'm sure that my request via the power of the internet would be answered.
    I have seen many IFOs that weren't human made. THERE CALLED BIRDS.
    I've been to Ripley's 'believe it or not' also and during my visit there I also seen a 10ft being (tallest recorded man) as well as another being at less than 3ft again (shortest man on record) so yes I will not argue with that

  67. docoman

    I see 3ft beings all the time...at times acting in an Alien manner... they're called kids. ;)
    Have you ever changed a new-born's nappy (diaper)? That stuff is definitely not from this world!! :)

  68. dewflirt

    I watched Stargazing Live last night with Dara O Briain and Brian Cox. About 35 million bits of space junk that we have left orbiting our planet, anything from satellites to flakes of paint, and on average 50-200 large pieces fall to earth each year. If they're averaging they must not have exact numbers and who knows how many smaller bits might also fall? Some of the strange things people see could be nothing more than Unidentified Falling Objects. Can't always be geese, Venus or weather balloons! There are plenty of pictures of our planet surrounded by dots representing space junk, amazing anything gets in or out of our orbit without being mangled, especially as some of that junk is travelling at about 25000 mph. On the other hand, what better place for the little people to hide themselves. If they're smart enough to get here they're surely smart enough to skulk amongst the debris. I'm still hoping its giant aerial jellyfish, though I would be equally excited by aliens :)

  69. ShadowMan

    .....Some people are lucky to get a chance of spotting alien craft in our skies, but, and i emphasize ‘but’, the alien or ET, or EBE or whatever they want to call them, are stepping up their agenda in revealing themselves to us, this era we are now in is, a period of enlightenment, when I say this, I mean an awareness of us in being aware of the universe, our consciousness has reached a stage where ET has recognized this and have slowly revealed themselves over a period say, a hundred years, the time is near for not necessarily a full blown out contact, but rather a “change” put in us or a helping to ‘change.’ I don’t know, could be this, I feel this. Anyway, back to you not being able to ‘spot one’, you will eventually, this is ET’s plan, to get everyone to know about them, a clever plan, I’d say. Imagine you in their place, you found another live world, the beings in our stage in evolution, you are millions of earth years ahead of them, what would you do to this world? Leave them alone, don’t interfere? Or help them? Or make use of them for your own purposes? Etc. The last I said, is what I strongly feel about them on us, there’s so much evidence on this.

    Yes, I have recorded on 2 separate occasions, EAC’s on my Sony cam-corder, (video 8 tape, not Hi 8 tape) but that’s in storage in the UK, I left UK 12 years ago, haven’t been back, hope the tapes are ok, one or two I brought to this country, the 2 tapes have both stuck together themselves, (I have converted some to file on computer, real tricky to do, have to very gently unstuck the tape, it has been in spool position for many years, this makes the tape stick together.) Both were taken in Cyprus, (lived there 15 years.) I had most of my sightings there, and meetings with ET, (would you believe it, in ‘dream state’) this is how they contact a lot in this way, makes sense, you are rendered inoperable in movement, can’t attack them! I have written about me experiences (and others I know) if you like, I can send to you? ET entities are really here, they know how to make us wonder if they are really here or not, they have been pretty smart in doing that, why reveal themselves if this is the case?! Maybe to keep our eyes in the sky, while down here, they are doing a lot to us!

  70. ShadowMan

    ....I get this kind of answer all the time, ok, when you see an IFO that has ET entities on board, you know what i have said is true, I know it's true that's all that matters! Say what you want, think what you want, makes no difference to me.

  71. irina nagy gyuris

    I am realy curios.Later with the comments.

  72. Marko Marjanovic IV

    I have bro, twice, in my 30 year life, accidentally in a crowded city, at night. And im not joking, nor do i have any reason to tell lies.

  73. Aj Haggerty

    the only real decent video/picture of something unidentified that appears to be flying is from the security guard in turkey during his 2008 filming of what some claim is a ufo containing little grey beings, even that is not good quality.....so why haven't any high res or even good quality pictures or video of UFO's been taken recently and if there is why cant i find them in any documentary about UFO sightings? because the truth is we are all being fooled by the whole alien ufo thing so that people can write books, make documentary's and get paid...whole thing is a big conspiracy to make money, only it is not talked about or even known generally, just like the fact our media and entertainment such as, music, video/games, TV, books etc...condition us to think a certain way, like slow release brain washing, mind control, people programming it is all based on one thing.....MONEY!!

  74. catodom411

    i believe that we as a human race are in a critical stage of our development and the time has come for us to demonstrate as occupants of this planet that we can come together ,are capable of using our instincts and our minds in which to decide for ourselves what is best individualy and as a whole ,stop the nonsense and collectively make a stand and demonstrate that we are capable and ready to earn our right to be included as part of the vast races that exist in the universe , that we are responsible enough to actually step through that door and be able to handle the exposure to what is on the other side. I would love to become part of a galactic space travel explorer, make contact with beings from outer space. We are monitored so closely yet just out of reach due to our behavior and what we represent. Little by little we are changing in our mindset but its happening at a snails pace maybe we need to step up the pace before its too late and we fail the test

  75. GRUMPY25608

    If that is the case that you get this answer all the time, then just may be its time to re evaluate the evidence ,(I use that term very loosely), that has lead you to your opinion. I too have seen things in my life that I cannot explain, flying through our skies, however to call these sightings as anything more than an UFO in the true meaning would be foolish. IFO's if I;m not mistaken means Identified Flying Object, that being the case the evidence to your stories should be readily available for you to at least silence your detractors. However "hearsay or because I said it's true" is not going to wash with me or could I say with any logical thinking person.

    I would never be so rude as to call you a liar, but what I have read from your posts appear to be Bullsh*t in my opinion

  76. ShadowMan

    .....I get this answer all the time from NONE sightseers, millions of persons who have seen IFO's agree with me. Like I said to you before ...”When you see one, then you will know I'm not lying” until then, its ok for you to disbelieve, I have no quells on that. Just remember, long ago, people were laughing at people like me in saying they saw, now the tables turned, (as what ET wants) the minority have become the majority! There’s less laughing these days :O)

  77. docoman

    Having a majority doesn't make something correct. The majority of people used to think our planet was the center of the Universe, the world was flat, in a particular version of a deity, ect ect. If you are going to be a person, and not a 'sheeple', a requirement is to evaluate and think for yourself. But you also have to be careful what you'll accept as evidence or valid logic.
    I have to say I agree what GRUMPY is saying, and that something of such an extra-ordinary nature, (intelligent beings have traveled to our planet and are 'doing things' here) requires a corresponding level of proof. Anecdotal evidence isn't enough in this case. I'm not trying to be rude, just what I consider 'sensible'.
    You may well be correct in your conclusion. That's why I 'wish' I had more, first hand evidence.
    Suggesting as some have (I'm not saying you have mate) that I couldn't 'handle it' is pretty arrogant and silly really. "I survived it, but I don't think you would. You had better just take my word for it" is not a valid argument, however 'sincere' the person stating it may be.
    I think it is a valid point to consider, that with all the people that have decent camera's now, why are there no clear, honest shots of an ET?
    Where is the evidence that a flying craft HAS to be of ET origin? I haven't seen any evidence for, or logic saying, that these 'UFO's' can become IFO's properly. Flying craft maybe, but of ET origin? That is a jump to a conclusion from what I personally have seen or been able to find in the evidence I've looked at.

  78. ShadowMan

    ....Ok, "anecdotal evidence" we have to define what is anecdotal and what isn't, you have to prove the millions of videos/photographs/witnessed sightings of supposed ET non-human piloted craft are fake, when you bring proof and let me evaluate it, then I can say you're right, but until then, your sayings in that these crafts are of human made origin, (terrestrial craft) well, yours too, is anecdotal evidence!

    Ok, if you don’t except ufo’s are now ifo’s piloted by EBE’s, then explain the mass world-wide abductions of persons? They are growing in momentum too. I bet you say these people are deluded too. From a tribesman in the middle of the Amazon jungle to the high court judge in Switzerland for example, both claim abductions by EBE and describe the same beings, same craft, same interior, same instruments used on them in examination of them while on board the craft, it’s gets to the point where law of averages come into play, even if just one of the millions of sightings is the real deal, well, that is all that is needed, and there are plenty too!

    Look into all areas, all categories of the ufo phenomena, you will truly be surprised, check out…..Budd Hopkins, (hypnosis expert on abductees) David M Jacobs, (Temple university professor, 38 yrs in this phenomena) John Mack, (now sadly deceased) these are just some named, plenty others investigating this most important happening in human history. Have a look on youtube for these guys. Then come back to me, truly astounding!

  79. docoman

    A comment/thought on your terminology. " personally I now call them; EAC's: Extraterrestrial Arial Craft....piloted by non-human entities,.."

    (I'm assuming you meant Aerial) Which to me would seem to limit the craft it's describing to flying within our atmosphere. Aerial means in the air, basically. I'm also assuming the craft you're describing are not restricted to our atmosphere?
    If so, it could possibly be more accurate to have something like ETC, Extra Terrestrial Craft, or EFC, Extraterrestrial Flying Craft, something not limiting it to flying within air.

    I tried ESP to contact an ET,
    requesting a UFO become an IFO,
    EAC or whatever term pleases thee.
    I'm no VIP, apparently,
    no ET or EBE,
    no contact of any degree.
    So here I am, back on a PC,
    looking for something to logically,
    confirm or deny, an Extraterrestrial Entity.
    From what I've seen, just quietly,
    the only intelligence here,
    are you and me.

    -- docoman 2013. ;)

  80. docoman

    With your first paragraph, anecdotal is pretty clearly defined, there's no real need for us to, unless it's to educate ourselves. Other peoples stories, without the required accompanying evidence, are examples.
    Pictures/video of weird UFO sightings does not automatically imply ET origin. The burden of proof lies with the one making the claims, which in this case is you, not me. I accept there are weird, UFO's. It's up to you to prove your claims, not me to disprove them.

    The jump from UFO to ET is the problem I have. You seem to have made the 'jump' with ease, but I still haven't seen anything from you other then anecdotal evidence. Sorry, not trying to be rude, just being honest with you. I'm not saying you are, or have to be, wrong either, just I don't have enough to agree or disagree with you.

  81. docoman

    With your second paragraph, being abducted is not a new phenomenon to our species. We've done it to each other for millennia. If they occur (I have to say 'if' as I haven't been, in the current context), again, how can the ONLY explanation be ET's?
    It is still a jump to a final conclusion, that contains some assumptions in it. Namely the ONLY explanation is ET's.

    Your third paragraph makes the same error I believe. IF you could get someone from even 100 years ago (relatively educated in our evolution), abduct them, restrain them and force them to watch the movie Avatar, I'm pretty sure they would swear that they had an experience, a 3D experience, that HAD to be of ET origin.
    The point being, that if you 'believe' what your senses are telling you, of course it makes sense you will have positive results under hypnosis. If you were abducted by people trying, with great skill and technologies you are not familiar with, to deceive you, how would you know?
    Our senses are easily tricked, and we have a tendency to ascribe 'supernatural' explanations to things we don't understand.
    ET's are only one explanation, and to me it has problems when you apply the principle of Occams Razor.

  82. GRUMPY25608

    Your term IFO indicates to me that identification of these crafts have been verified through official means. At no stage have you or anyone else for that matter has been able to provide proof to your said encounters. Unfortunately being of sound mind does not allow me to be so guillible to take what you have said to be any more than a story.

    Unfortunately you stating that you where in a "Dream state" at these times only adds to my disbelief to your claims.

  83. docoman

    I also agree many people ascribe more meaning to terms, UFO being a prime example, and misunderstand others, IFO for eg.
    I must admit I was amused and disappointed when I read some 'evidence' was obtained during a 'dream state'. On a subject that has so much conjecture, false evidence and faulty logic, as well as interesting and possibly important facts to be discovered, admitting that some 'evidence' has been obtained via a dream state doesn't bode well for it's acceptance by others, or help to distinguish it from the voluminous amounts of rubbish that exists on this subject.

    Nor should it, as you said. Religion has whipped that dead horse for too long already. New hypotheses are not exempt from scrutiny or logical evaluation the same as religion shouldn't be, however much the idea may appeal to some, or however much they declare they have to be correct, via their own 'personal revelations'.

  84. docoman

    An example of being tricked, even with very good, very clear, up to date 'evidence' and photographic evidence.
    Look up dummy armies, WWII. On more then one occasion the Allies used fake rubber tanks, planes ect to create the illusion of something very different to what it really was. They were quite convincing, moved the 'tanks' at night, left 'track' marks, did false radio, false orders ect. If you only knew what you'd seen from the aerial reconnaissance, you would have a belief very different to the reality, based on 'real' evidence.
    Our eyes are probably the easiest of our senses to deceive.
    So no, IF in fact they have been seen, (I haven't and I've not seen any photographic evidence that wasn't a fraud), I don't think a 3ft or 10ft, rubber suited, 'government operative' is actually beyond the realms of possibility, or even far from recent precedent. Pretty easy really compared to creating a whole army, a 10ft being is small compared to a rubber 'sherman'. I would think that more likely then an ET coming all this way, to then crash in NM, USA. Or to say 'hi' to some people and not others, be friendly to some, and 'horrifying' to others.
    I concede I could be wrong. Do you?

  85. Giacomo della Svezia

    The belief in extraterrestrial life with its own 'witnesses' and 'prophets' has much in common with religious belief, if it is not the same.

  86. docoman

    I'm finding that to be very true, unfortunately. It seems to me many of the conclusions are based on a 'belief'. IF you dare to question the logic you're often told it's YOUR fault, that you're not worthy in some way. I find this possibility more realistic and interesting then what the main religions assert, it's a pity you run into the same sort of reactions as when talking to religious people. I guess 'believers' have some things in common, regardless of the 'beliefs'.

  87. ShadowMan

    I miss spelt; it should be “aerial.” ....Definition of AERIAL
    1a: of, relating to, or occurring in the air or atmosphere b: existing or growing in the air rather than in the ground or in water c: high in the air d: operating or operated overhead on elevated cables or rails
    2: suggestive of air: as a: lacking substance b: fanciful, ethereal
    3a: of or relating to aircraft b: designed for use in, taken from, or operating from or against aircraft c: effected by means of aircraft
    4: of, relating to, or gained by the forward pass in football
    — ae•ri•al•ly -?-l? adverb

    This definition I'm referring to you, >>>1a: of, relating to, or occurring in the air or atmosphere<<<< ...the "OCCURRING part. It does not mean that the EAC can only fly in our skies; rather it is happening in our skies by some extraterrestrial craft outside of our atmosphere. Hope this solves your issue :O)

  88. ShadowMan

    ...This part you say..."unless it's to educate ourselves..." is clearly what I'm trying to do to the world. Yes, it can be, and should be! So you're saying the photos/videos etc of EBE and their craft are terrestrial then? If not terrestrial, then got to be extraterrestrial! So which is it? So you're implying that the aliens we see have been all along from earth?! They may live here; they may be an ancient earth civilization too. Just one point though, they certainly aren't human! Unless they are us from the future, as some have suggested, US in the future have found a way to 'time travel' into the past.

    And yes, I reiterate once again to you, YOU have to prove these are anecdotal, why not?!! You have the written/photos/videos etc of these claims by people at your disposal, so prove they are either real or fake, not just 'hearsay'!!! You know this too!

  89. ShadowMan

    .....I see you seem to want this to be always never EBE interaction; you want it to be anything but that! You are asking for proof, but turning a blind eye to all the concrete evidence of EBE abducting of humans, i.e.: implants that have a none terrestrial compound in them, (not material from earth, not created from earth materials) all countries describing the same EBE and craft, (as told for example with the tribesman & Swiss judge claims) same pattern of markings on the body by EBE experimenting/examining that are common on abductees from all over the world, same landing traces, (rings, not natural fungal rings) of their craft landings.

    It all comes to the point where you have to know its not human government secret projects on controlling people etc. Some may though, but for what reason? If you want to experiment on ‘mind control’ of a person for example, plenty would volunteer if paid well, even use their own army as did with the first detonation of the A-bomb for example. You have to face up to the reality, that the evidence overwhelms the ‘anecdotal' claiming by people like you. Anyway, we can carry on arguing until the cows come home, you believe what you will, I believe what I saw!

  90. ShadowMan

    ....Exactly, this is what the far in advanced EBE what's us to think, your...."Unfortunately you stating that you where in a "Dream state" at these times only adds to my disbelief to your claims." is what they want you to say! They have been extremely clever in doing this way, (interaction with us through 'dream state') who's going to believe me or the millions of others if they say they met EBE's during their sleep! A perfect cover for them! I believe we will get to that stage too, in being able to interact with one another through our dreaming, we already can almost see what people are dreaming, read this long ago, some Japanese experiment was able to do so!

    If the aliens are not just one million years ahead of us, but 70 million years ahead of us for example, imagine what they are capable of!! I hate to think what they could do to us in terms of using their weapons on us or mind control etc. picture this, you are millions of years ahead of some jungle tribe here on earth, (we already are in about a 100 years or something like) what would you do with them?

    What would you like to do with them? Don’t forget, you are thinking what to do with them in this time of our evolution, what we are now, so these aliens are millions of years ahead of our present day technology, their thinking in what they want to do to us will be far different in what we would do to that tribes people, think about that, also their not thinking in human terms too!

  91. GRUMPY25608

    At the time of the tribesmans and judges abduction were they in a "Dream State" or were they smoking from the same piece pipe????

  92. ShadowMan

    ....Look at it this way, why would for example, the US government, (or shady NWO organization) go around the world and hover above cities for hours on end sometimes, and how to disappear, and zoom off across the sky in seconds, (the G forces would crush their internals, break bones etc) and other activities they perform, (you think using the UFO phenomena as a cover to spy on foreign countries perhaps) and risk being shot down and finding it's US made or whatever! This would cause an international outcry. And also UFO's (IFO's as alien craft) are in US skies day & night, why play the ufo cover game in their own country, unless they think they will be suspect, because no UFO's seen in the USA.

    Anyway, the 3ft entities seen can't be children dressed up or midgets, they run the risk being caught, an adult could easily catch these little fellows anyway! Some aliens have been 5 inches in stature too! Explain that?! Look on the net, check out stature. And for the last 100 years these crafts have been seen, and disappearing and zooming off into outer space in seconds, where is this being human made 100 years ago, all through human history these reports are too!!!!! Come on, admit they exist, you will get a lot off your shoulders, don’t be stubborn!

  93. docoman

    I stand corrected. Obviously you do need to learn properly what anecdotal evidence is.
    You can stomp your feet and demand I prove you're wrong all you like, it still doesn't change the fact that it's up to the one that makes the claims to prove them, not others prove them wrong. Which means the burden of proof lies with you, not me. You claim ET's, not me.
    Exactly what claims have I made that I need prove? I've asked you why ET's HAVE to be the ONLY POSSIBLE answer, and proposed possible alternative answers, non ET. (proposed, not asserted. A BIG difference.) The only claim I definitely make is that your logic is faulty. I offer your posts as evidence.

    Now you even claim to know what I'm thinking/wanting. Is it that ESP trick again is it? Or did it come to you in a dream state?
    Tangible evidence such as an element that doesn't occur on earth would be good, strong evidence. Where is the documentation, the scientific tests on these compounds? Where are these compounds now? Or once again, do I just have to 'take your word for it?' Why is it no decent evidence comes to light? I know you call it 'concrete evidence', that's your loose interpretation.

    In one of your recent posts you now come up with the idea of future humans. An alternative, that doesn't HAVE to be ET's. Again, as with my proposals, it's an idea, but needs support/evidence to make it anything more then that, as do all the other answers I've seen so far. At least that's starting to be open to non-assumed conclusions.

  94. ShadowMan

    ....Yeah, we can all joke about this, but it doesn't help does it. I know I'm wasting my time here with you, just hoping to awake you that's all, seems not possible though, carry on being sarcastic, you're only fooling yourself.

  95. ShadowMan

    ....There you go again, in not heeding my advice in checking on youtube for example, on 'removed EBE implants' from humans, did you check all the categories of EBE intervention on our planet on youtube/Google? No you haven't by the looks of it. Of course you're going to say it's not evidence, all walks of life of people such as people in high ranking positions, people with responsible positions, all areas of the military personal for example, have claimed sighting ufo's that are clearly IFO's of extraterrestrial origin, Presidents have claimed too! You're not checking this are you, just down playing me with easy words of debunking, you don't want to believe, it's clear!

  96. docoman

    You, the same as many religious people before you, can implore me to suspend critical thought and reason all you like mate, it's not going to happen. You can try to coerce through emotional appeals, threats or whatever, sorry mate, I'm not going to say 'I believe' in something that I don't have decent evidence for. I am open to compelling evidence, and willing to adjust my stance, either way. I totally accept there are very weird UFO's seen. Nothing I've seen, read or heard compels me to 'believe' it HAS to be ET's, regardless of my, personal or 'proposed by other's' wish's.

  97. docoman

    Actually, yes I have looked on youtube. I was just looking at Real Aliens Caught on Tape. Hmm, can't see any 5 inch to 10 ft ET's. A few weird lights is about it so far. Mixed with spooky music and effects. Although mildly entertaining at times, even interesting sometimes, it's not convincing.

    I think you actually 'hit the nail on it's head' when you start talking about beliefs and 'wants'. That would explain to me why you keep making the jump from UFO to IFO, and are unable to demonstrate any decent evidence to accompany this assertion.
    And just because you don't like my request for decent evidence, and my questions about some assertions or logic faults, that's no reason to suppose you know my mind and thoughts. Another assumption you're making.

  98. docoman

    A simple example of your faulty logic. You said, "picture this, you are millions of years ahead of some jungle tribe here on earth, (we already are in about a 100 years or something like)"

    It's fairly well accepted that homo sapiens have been around for something like 100 to 200 k years. How could we possibly be 'millions of years ahead of some jungle tribe, in another 100 years or so'? Who, by the way, have been around comparatively the same time, and are actually a part of that 'we' you mention.
    It doesn't make any logical sense.

    Edit-- unless you introduce something extra as GRUMPY did. After a claim such as 'us' soon being millions of years 'ahead' of some tribesmen, his/her post wasn't unwarranted in my opinion, the option of humor was a 'nicer' way to reply to that. Obviously you're not fooling him/her either.

  99. docoman

    I'm not fussed what you call them. Was just pointing out that Aerial in the name does imply/restrict it to 'occurring' in the air, as your posted definitions reinforce.

  100. Giacomo della Svezia

    Yes, people who believe in extraterrestrial life and ufo's are usually offended when you express doubt about their statements, just like very religious people (though I don't doubt that not all religious people react like that).
    Well, it is a bit rough when you come and take away that nice dream. It's so comfortable to feel that we are not alone, that our life has a purpose and a meaning. "How does anyone dare to doubt me? It's an offense!" Now where did I hear that one before? : )

    The people that spread all these videos of ufo-sightings on youtube and maybe elsewhere just find it funny to 'accomodate' the gullible.
    Some time ago a neighbour of mine told me about a 'close encounter' in Jerusalem. Looking it up I came across several debunking videos he apparently hadn't noticed. For anyone interested: 'HOAXKiller1' makes a pretty good job of debunking these claims with a careful analysis of the videos.

  101. docoman

    Thank you Giacomo, I hadn't heard of him before. I had to go to his website, thehoaxkiller (dot) com. I've only looked at a few, it seems they're pretty good at showing up BS.
    I did see an ET there, but they were very good at showing how the video had to be fake, which it was/is. The same as the UFO over Jerusalem. It wasn't even originally a video, but a picture on a LCD screen that was filmed, with the UFO added. UFO? More like an IBSO. :) They seem very common.
    I'd suggest if anyone is after some education on the subject, thehoaxkiller site is a far better source then 'doco's' like this one.
    If anyone has some real, non fake evidence they can point me towards, I'd very much appreciate it. Please note the NON FAKE element in the request. :)

    I did find the 'Alien implants' that ShadowMan mentioned interesting, although I'm still to find anything decent on that.

  102. docoman

    I'd bet on the 2nd option, the pipe. That could also explain the same marks on both groups... that pipe was hot! ;) It would also seem that 'space weed' is good sh1t! :)

  103. Giacomo della Svezia

    Yes, IBSO's are very abundant. : )
    I would be thrilled as well if any non fake evidence of ET's was found and made public. I'd be very curious to know what they would look like.

    If I remember correctly Oliver Sacks in his latest book mentions the experience of being abducted by aliens.

    Care to know the name of the book? Hallucinations : D

  104. docoman

    Lol, Hallucinations. Was O.Sacks in a dream state/meditation or drugged do you know?
    I would love to meet a non-hostile ET. Just how they got here would be very interesting, let alone 'cutting a couple laps' around our planet and solar system. I would love to travel into space.
    The accusation that I don't want ET's to be a real phenomenon is unfounded. I'd like it very much, assuming they were pleasant. Even if, as some propose, they're just 'checking us out' and don't want contact with me, I'd still be very curious to know more about them.

  105. Giacomo della Svezia

    A low passing of a UFO to let us catch a glimpse would be very welcome. I think ET's are really out there, but unfortunately for us, it's too far to travel to Earth without proper facilities between their home planet and ours.

    Well, dr Sacks didn't experience this himself. It were either patients who really believed it, or it was a fellow doctor who realised he was hallucinating at the time, I'm not sure.
    About him being drugged: Dr Sacks used to take a lot of drugs early in his career. When he suddenly stopped he got into a delirium and saw all kinds of things, but while he was immerged in these hallucinations for days, no ET's came to pay him a visit.
    Disrespectful bunch. : (

  106. docoman

    Sounds like an interesting read.
    My money would be on there is life elsewhere too. I'm not convinced it would have to be 'intelligent' to any great degree, almost 4 billion years evolution here and we're only pretty new. If the dinosaurs hadn't copped the meteor strike, it's possible if not probable they'd still be the dominate life form on the planet, and we wouldn't have had the chance to evolve the way we have.
    I'm not sure that 'intelligence' (relatively speaking) would be a common trait in life. It doesn't seem to be on our planet. It may be a fairly rare 'roll of the evolutionary dice'.

  107. Giacomo della Svezia

    Who knows, if the dinosaurs had remained the dominant species, one of the branches might have evolved into a species of intelligent animals like humans. It sounds even plausible to me: as intelligence is the most powerful weapon that homo sapiens has - maybe not so much for the individual, but so much more for the group - why wouldn't it be for any other kind of living being, anywhere?
    (That is, until we might destroy ourselves by continuing this destructive way of life.)

    Edit: I mentioned 'Hallucinations' because the book gives a plausible explanation for the experience of being abducted by aliens.

  108. GRUMPY25608

    IFO,s are real (Identified Flying Objects), however after several hour of searching, your definition is wrong. As with a court of law if a statement is wrong it is thrown out as inadmissible. The follow on effect from that is from that point onwards there is an element of doubt over the rest of the case. As I was in a dream state last night and Amanda Kerr appeared seducing me, when I awoke I was like a shipwreck.(hand on mask and seamen all over). We all now that she didn,t have her way with me (regrettably), it was a dream......
    I have tried to keep un open mind on this subject ,but your theories and claims have so many holes that all you have convinced me off is that your claims are wrong

  109. ShadowMan

    ....Ok, I hope when you do get see an IFO that is piloted by EBE's, (you get the chance to see the occupants too) just remember me then! :O)

  110. ShadowMan

    ...I'm not forcing you or anyone to believe, that's crazy to do in my opinion! I tell the world of my sightings and encounters, that's all, if they want to believe, fine, if not, fine with me, I know what I have seen and met, no need for approval from anyone on that :O) Good luck on looking in the skies, because that is where you will see them most of the time, maybe you might be lucky to get the 'close encounters of the forth kind', hope you do, then remember me, remember I wasn't a crackpot after all.

  111. Giacomo della Svezia

    Thanks for the links, I'll check them out.

    A smaller species of omnivore living in a group would be more likely to develop greater intelligence, (social behaviour and the choice of food would be the main incentives). Just guessing, but I think before the first mammals appeared there also must have been small reptiles that fitted in this category.
    Maybe the only thing working against one of the dinosaur species developping larger brains was time, which as we know they didn't get, although as far as I know it is still not certain what killed them.

    But indeed, why add something like more brains to a 'design' that is good as it is? Necessity drives evolution. On Earth, the humans were somehow 'lucky'. Maybe there are fewer 'lucky ones' in the rest of the universe than we think.

    Herbs and spices? Maybe he mentioned them in his manuscript? : )

  112. ShadowMan

    ....You read, but haven't grasped the idea at all. It means, IF we were millions of years ahead of today’s tribesman, (we already are at this present day around 100 or more years ahead of them in our way of living etc.) You got it wrong in your..."How could we possibly be 'millions of years ahead of some jungle tribe, in another 100 years or so'?"

    you didn't look closely at my sentences! Nothing to do with us in another 100 years time! The "we" meaning if we, (Western citizens for example) actually were around millions of years before these tribes people were around and at this present day situation with them, what would/could we do with them? They evolved later than us, so the "we" means the Western people, get it now?! God, you need this laid out in the simplest terms, so slow to catch on!

  113. ShadowMan

    ....Well then, you should have checked out the different definitions before faulting me, which you clearly did not achieve! I was putting it as "occurring in the air" so I'm not at fault :O)

  114. ShadowMan

    ...In this case, "IFO" in the meaning, means it’s identified as an EBE constructed craft from outer space somewhere; it has not been constructed by humans! There is more evidence on this being, than your none proven fact that it is not!
    You have to get out there, to find the evidence of the kept crashed IFO's piloted by EBE's, for example, the Roswell EBE craft that has been kept secret in government hands for the last 60 or so years, get out there and find the truth!
    I haven't done so, because there is an "Authorized to shoot to kill" sign on the highway leading to the facility of Area 51, This implies if you are not authorized to enter and refuse to leave, you either get arrested, or if you try by force to enter, you may get shot!

  115. docoman

    It's no wonder if I got a different meaning to what was intended, your post showed your grasp of written English is on a par with your faulty logic. Here is what you said;
    "picture this, you are millions of years ahead of some jungle tribe here on earth, (we already are in about a 100 years or something like) what would you do with them? "
    That's what you wrote, and you wonder why people can't understand you. You need to make sense first, before you can expect people to understand you. If I'm slow to catch on, it's because you're just making sh1t up that is nonsensical.

    How are some humans more evolved then others, exactly? (according to you, Western citizens are)
    We're not you fool, you don't properly understand what you're talking about, again.
    You really do need to learn what your definitions and terms mean, it does make all the difference.

    You are confusing technology with evolution, by the gist of your post.

    No doubt that will go over your head as well, it doesn't fit in with your beliefs.
    You have nothing substantial to offer on this matter, only dubious anecdotal evidence, disjointed and uncertain English, and defective, faulty logic.
    I'm not interested in conversing with you any further, your illogical, unsubstantial babble is now boring me.

  116. Giacomo della Svezia

    Very right: technologically advanced does not mean advanced in civilisation.
    Western society may have a highly developped technology, its maturity (so to speak) lags a little behind. We are fumbling enthusiastically with toys that (may) turn out to be harmful, like assault weapons and nuclear energy.

  117. ShadowMan

    ....You still can't picture this! Don't you know about the evolution of humans? There have new sets of humans’ throughout human history, Cro-Magnon, Netherlanders for example, when I say tribesman and us being millions of years ahead, you have to think about pre-history in different kinds of humans evolving! I would have least thought you would have worked that out, and know that too! It’s just my hypothesis of alien intervention and their likely intentions towards us in my said scenario.

    Let’s put it in an easier way for you to understand, if one race of humans had co-existed on this planet with a primitive human race, but never had seen each other, and the more advanced by millions of years humans came into contact with those primitives, what would are reaction be towards them? What would we do etc? We already know today by past contact in this scenario already what the result is, but just say if we were millions of years ahead, the outcome would be much different than today’s contact with primitives. Would those much advanced humans treat them like us towards insects for example? Hope you understand my meaning :O)

  118. GRUMPY25608

    Roswell and Area 51 are controlled by the goverment of the USA, that being the case unauthorised persons should be punished. As with all goverment facilities. By all accounts if you break into somebodies house over in the States theres a big chance of being arrested or shot! Are all these homeowners hiding any secrets or are they just protecting whats theirs? One of your earlier post recommended me to google/youtube to find your truth for myself, which I did, and guess what it proved beyond reasonable doubt that your understanding of what an IFO is wrong. My 4yr old son has a better understanding of logic and fact than it appears you have displayed during this brief discussion.

  119. ShadowMan

    ....You can get in Area 51, but you won't come back out again, not if you discovered what is being hidden there! Yes, most house owners are hiding something in their home, I would say around 85% are, just like you are doing now, think about that! They are doing both, protecting and hiding. What's all this in I don't know what I'm talking about not knowing the truth on IFO's piloted by none human entities, I know far more than you could ever dream!

    That's a fact too! Let me spell it out to you....I....F....O means "Identified flying object" which means you know that it either a recognized craft or human origin, or of the many reports of alien flown craft that has been reported in the past, and of this craft being seen together with alien entities in reports etc, it also means comet, asteroid bodies etc, (beyond our skies, but visible to the naked eye.) I have over 50 sightings of alien craft, EBE piloted. I'm far more familiar with the difference of what is alien & human craft. Go back to checking more, much more on the UFO/IFO EBE phenomena on youtube etc, you clearly are armature in this field as I can see!

  120. ShadowMan

    ....Millions of years ahead in THINKING, as they the tribes people have not advanced in thinking when both of us had started out from caves people the same time! Ok, just a million years ahead in thinking, you happy now!

  121. docoman

    Good point about guarding things not automatically equating to hiding secrets. I bet he can't supply any evidence to back up his 85% assertion. Lol. Apparently you are 'clearly' an "armature" from what he can see. "you clearly are armature in this field as I can see!"
    ar·ma·ture
    /?ärm?CH?r/
    Noun
    1 The rotating coil or coils of a dynamo or electric motor.
    2 Any moving part of an electrical machine in which a voltage is induced by a magnetic field.

    Or, as it would seem by the context, he was trying to say "amature", which from him would be more fitting. The following is from the urban dictionary;

    1. Amature
    Common Misspelling of the word amateur

    2. Amature
    A word used by those of a lesser intelligence to berate those of higher intelligence. Example: "That would be so amature". What it really means is "You're better than I am, I suck at life. Please God, put me out of my misery."

    I think most logically thinking people, after reading the thread and Shadowman's comments, would have to conclude the 2nd definition would seem to fit very well with Shadowman and his posts.

    It would seem those of us that have tried to explain to him his definitions and meanings are very important in expressing his point correctly, have been wasting our time. He's ignorant, and he'll probably stay that way.
    I believe you would get more sense out of your Son, even aged 4 :) Good luck trying to get any sense out of, or into ShMan, I doubt you'll make any headway either. :)

  122. docoman

    Can you post a link referring to any anthropologists that express that view? Or are you making things up again? If you have some reasonable evidence to give (links ect, not stories from you) I'm all eyes, otherwise I'm not particularly interested in your version of the 'truth' anymore.

  123. Guest

    Shadowman, if English is not your first language, then it is not your fault that your use of English is disjointed and seriously handicapping the logic of your arguments.

    With this possibility in mind, I have read your posts in a 'forgiving' frame of mind, interested in looking for your reasoning rather than your grammar. However, I have come to the conclusion that it is your logic itself that is your greatest handicap. You refuse (or are unable) to see the logic in the simple language others have written; you lack understanding of some very basic words and terminologies; and you make assumptions and conclusions that range between unlikely and ridiculous. To add to that, you repeatedly recommend as your sources of information, Google and Youtube.....broadly speaking, both seriously infected with much 'hogwash'.

    No one has called you a liar and only you have used the term 'crackpot'. If you believe you see strange things in the sky and are visited by strange beings in your dreams, then that is your 'reality' and it is your right to believe as you choose. If there are millions of others believing the same as you, at least you have company.

    However, without proof available to all, your experiences are nothing more than an interesting anecdote and your ideas are simply hypothesis, or fantasy....and definitely not original!

    Can anyone suggest another interesting documentary to watch and discuss? :)

  124. Joel Griggs

    WOW. I didn't watch the doco but thought I'd read the comments.. And seriously, wow, Shadowman, wtf?

    Your posts have got to be the most deluded and poorly written 'arguments' I have ever seen. I'm actually not sure what you're arguing or even if you are in fact arguing.

    I don't think it follows that you can belittle everyone else for not understanding you when you're not speaking English. You might think you're speaking English but if I just threw a bunch of misspelled French words together that wouldn't mean I'm speaking French.

    My apologies if English isn't your first language and you are really trying but being so arrogant about your point of view really hasn't left me with a lot of empathy for you.

  125. docoman

    Don't disappear Sherralee. :) I liked your first name, and your second's Avatar.
    You make sense and put your points well, don't run away. :)
    I too wondered if English was his first language, and tried not to be sarcastic about it until I received sarcasm. I've never read anyone that doesn't make some mistakes, even if only 'typo's', I make heaps of them. The idea of what they're saying is more important then their skills in expressing it, as long as it can be somewhat understood.

  126. Joel Griggs

    Indeed - this is the internet after all and I can generally overlook poor spelling and grammar. Shadowman's posts go well beyond that.

    If you want your argument to be heard, it's your job to make it clear and concise - not ours to decipher it.

    To the person below wanting a good doco:
    I just finished watching "dawkins on religion" - an entertaining interview with Richard Dawkins that goes pretty much how you would expect.

    As always, Dawkins is professional, well mannered and very quick witted. The interviewer on the other hand is a disrespectful, ignorant fool with an infuriating air of undeserved, smug self-satisfaction. Well worth the watch :)

  127. kissmyasp

    Thanks docoman...not running away :)

    Typo errors are easy to make and easy to overlook...
    ...errors in logic are annoying in the least and potential poison...especially when taken up and espoused as facts.

    I admired how patient and civil you remained in the discussion.

  128. kissmyasp

    Thanks Joel....have put it on my 'watch list' :)

  129. docoman

    G'day Joel, I agree mate, the burden of proof lies with the one making the assertions, not those hearing them. And to put it in a way that it can be understood goes a long way to getting the point across (if there is any).
    I also agree with your recommendation on something to watch. On that one's comment thread there are also 2 other Dawkins ones mentioned, you'll have to search for them on youtube, Rabbi Sacks and Dawkins, and Cardinal Pell and Dawkins.
    Of the three, I thought the best 'opposition' was Rabbi Sacks, although still woefully flawed on some points.
    The comments that go with most of the Religious documentaries are often very interesting as well, sometime more so then the show.

  130. Joel Griggs

    Thanks Docoman, very much appreciated - I'll be sure to watch them.

    As for feeding the (religious zealot) trolls - I really have to restrain myself sometimes but they just make it so God damn easy.

  131. GRUMPY25608

    Hey docoman, it's just another example of people not being able to define fact or fiction.

  132. GRUMPY25608

    After several attempts to explain the correct term of IFO to you, I have come to the conclusion that your of below average intelligence and I wil show you some respect by letting you live in your own little world.

    You have even got a FACT wrong...

    FACT: Is the little piece of grissle between the muck hole and f**k hole, and if you slip your in the shit... Now thats a FACT...lol

    With over fifty sighting are they confirmed or only in your head.

    Can you see my point mate your truth is alot different than the record and documented evidence available to us at this present time. If at a later stage more proof to what your saying is correct, I will then re-evaluate my current beliefs, but until then please know you are WRONG...........

  133. GRUMPY25608

    The problems that I have with your beliefs is at this stage in history is that all the evidence availible is discrediting 95% of what your saying.
    If in the future more information come to hand and can be verified, my views and opinion may change.

    Do you believe in religion?

    If NO, please explain why you believe in one fantasy but not the other.

  134. markzmen02

    What if all the conspiracy theories were true? What would you do then?

  135. docoman

    First I'd redefine those things as not theories, but facts.
    Then I hope I'd ask for some strong medications. It would be impossible for ALL of them to be true as many are contradictory, so my conclusion if I believed they were ALL true is that I'd 'lost my mind' and could probably benefit from a strong sedative and some padding in my bedroom. ;)

  136. GRUMPY25608

    If all the conspiracy theories are true they would no longer be theories. That being the case all theories are just that. it does not become fact. It now become fact and now thats some thing I can believe.

  137. ShadowMan

    ....Please show me where in my grammar and spelling is at fault? If you're going to be a little picky icky spell and grammar checking policeman, well we can start with your grammar then....First off, when we put forth titles of any written article or documentary etc, we place them in CAPITAL LETTERS! Look at your..."dawkins on religion” names always have capital letters by the way! Second, your… "a disrespectful, ignorant fool with an infuriating air of undeserved, smug self-satisfaction. …" after commas, the last mention should be placed, 'and' before it!
    Twice you made a mistake in the above second! Please do not fault others, when you are at fault yourself! Please do not be a hypocrite to others! Do you also realize that there are British English and American English spelling differences? I’m of British decent by the way, so start checking the spelling differences, and then shut up!

  138. ShadowMan

    .....Do you believe your mother is your mother? How do you know she is your mother? If yes, then you have to take the word of your mother! Did you take a DNA test to verify? Same thing in your above reply to me, think before you talk, before you type!
    And what about the 5% credited? I may come into this percent! Not thinking again are we!

  139. ShadowMan

    ....You are clearly an uneducated person as I have seen in your posted comments; you can't even put forth a decent coherent argument! Please state where my terms for IFO are at fault, you don't even explain them as evidence! We can all say someone is at fault, that's why we have the jurisdictional system, courts etc, to sort out which is fact and which is fiction. Look back on my explaining of the term , IFO, read hard and let it sink into your small, and narrow mind, then come back and show the fault(s) if any!

  140. ShadowMan

    .....O' hum, here we go with another hypocrite, first off, we ALWAYS place a comma before the clauses, 'but' & ‘and’, your,...."My apologies if English isn't your first language and you are really trying but being so arrogant about your point of view really hasn't left me with a lot of empathy for you" Is clearly there for everyone to see. Please do not fault others, if you do not know the ways of the English grammar yourself! :O)

  141. docoman

    I will go and have a look, but before I do I have already seen part of that show if my memory is correct (I've watched a number of doco's on that topic), and are aware of the ancient monuments, their construction techniques, known and theory, and the explanations of historians versus some newer ideas.
    Without watching your link yet, with what I already know on the topic of ancient monuments and constructions, I still have the problem that there is no proof that ET's have to be involved, or are the only possible answer.

    I've also watched quite a few 'doco's' on genetics, human evolution ect. From what I've seen, the genetic evidence is actually against ET's doing anything. Nothing I've seen or heard on that topic indicates any manipulation from any outside factors like ET intelligent beings. If you disagree or have credible evidence on the genetics that show what, and how we've been 'changed', please provide it and I'll check it out.

  142. ShadowMan

    ....Answer to both of the above, a highly advanced civilization will cover this up, or not care if found out later in our evolution, because at this point, we are able to comprehend this, (as they know in this stage of evolution this will, it is a right time for us to know.) Anyway, all your disbeliefs, I can understand, most people act like this, it's normal, but one day I hope all this to be revealed, then we can all relax, and get on with evolving. Carry on disbelieving, it’s your right too, I don’t belittle anyone who disbelieves, (as some people here have said.)

  143. ShadowMan

    ....Since when has..."Son"..., ("I believe you would get more sense out of your Son, even aged 4...") been a name?

  144. docoman

    I disagree with you on points 2, 3, 4, 6 and 7. Most of those comma's are optional.
    It also seems you missed the points of both of those posters. I have had a lot of trouble at times deciphering exactly what you mean, and you have also failed to grasp the proper meanings of words and ideas, multiple times. As those posters and myself have said, spelling and grammar, the odd typo, it doesn't matter as long as you can understand the point. I easily understood the meanings of their posts, as did you. Even with some errors, theirs are still legible. I hope mine have been.
    Not all of your posts in the discussion below were. And coupled with you being pretty rude, when it's actually you not getting it, is not a good way to get your ideas or points heard. I don't know how to say it any more tactfully then that mate. I'm not trying to be rude, but we won't be able to communicate in that fashion.

    I also get the feeling that you don't get that I'm not totally against everything you say, at least in principle/possibility. Others that you berate, like GRUMPY, who also said he's seen some weird things, would be more likely to listen to you if you listened to them.
    He has the same point I've repeatedly asked you. UFO to IFO, how exactly? You saying you dreamed it, or you saw it, is not enough to convince people, and being rude just looses them outright. You have to be able to handle the odd joke or 2 on a subject with as much BS out there as this one has, or you won't gain any support.

    Here's something from my mind, which with a different tact, thought process and approach, you'd have gotten from me without any pain. :)
    I think some of the strongest evidence that shows the currently accepted storyline of human history has to be at least partly incorrect, is the weathering by precipitation on the Spinx body and enclosure at Giza. I'm not sure if you've heard of it, there is a doco done by John Anthony West, (if you search in youtube his name and Sphinx you should find it, I think it was called "Mystery of the Sphinx"). I don't agree with everything on that doco, but the weathering on the Sphinx and surrounds was very interesting, very strong evidence. Checked and verified by a geologist, peer reviewed by others in that field.
    I've had the pleasure of living in Cairo, I've seen the Pyramids many times, been inside the 'Kings and Queens' chambers, seen many of the monuments multiple times. Although interesting and amazing, I still have not seen what I call evidence of ET's. Some things 'could' be, could be something else.

  145. docoman

    In short, your answer to there being no evidence in our genetics that indicate ET's intervention is that 'of course they'd cover that up'.

    Mate, c'mon. Can you not see how that is finding evidence where there is none? If your theory on ET's is correct, that is possible, but it in no way helps your cause or argument, to anyone reading it that can reason it out. It's probably best not mentioned by your 'side of the argument' unless new evidence comes to light. It tends to help your opposition.

    I don't disbelieve. I'm not seeing something credible and choosing to not believe it. You saying you don't belittle anyone who disbelieves, well, depending on your definition of belittle I suppose. The accepted one in English, and your posts, render that incorrect.

  146. ShadowMan

    If I state that I met EBE’s through a ‘dream state’, and you don’t believe it, well, it’s the same as you or anyone else saying that they believe in God, how many people have seen God by the way? How many have seen aliens? So which is more credible? Obviously, aliens are! The statistics say so! So why do you have trouble in believing me, when MILLIONS have seen aliens!!!!! I really cannot see the logic in your thinking towards me at all! I’m actually, dumbfounded by you, sorry, but meaning no offence to you.

  147. docoman

    I haven't personally seen anything indicating to me it was of ET origin. Every single piece of 'evidence' I've looked at is either a hoax, or has other answers that are much more likely.
    Sphinx, pyramids ect.. we did it.
    Genetics, nothing except evolution.
    UFO's... 95% BS
    ... 5% being real is actually quite generous by some accounts.

    That 5% that are UFO, are unidentified. Until better evidence is presented or personally witnessed, that's what they stay. That's not being stubborn, that's being realistic and sensible.

    The millions you mention I would suggest is an inflated number. Yes, millions may have seen UFO's, but as far as I'm aware millions don't claim to have identified exactly what it was they saw, other then 'weird'. And as I said earlier, millions making an assumption doesn't make it correct. BILLIONS think there is a God, and have seen or talked to him/it, and have 'evidence'.
    As you were asked by another poster, why discard one and not the other. On weight of numbers, which ultimately is the main evidence you have {Edit - main evidence you can demonstrate} supporting your view, Religion has more.

  148. ShadowMan

    "In short, your answer to there being no evidence in our genetics that indicate ET's intervention is that 'of course they'd cover that up'." Exactly, this is the whole point in me saying about the having a highly evolved none human intelligence that had worked on us, we are less intelligent than 'them', therefore, we have to work it out, discover this, but many have put forth good theories, that have been delved into, that are investigated, and are/have leading/lead to the conclusion they are right, "Forbidden Archeology" is a prime example, watch on youtube please! I’m off to bed, good night!

  149. docoman

    And as I pointed out, saying "see, we can't see anything, so they must have hidden it" is not the evidence you seem to think it is. That's a lack of evidence, which doesn't help, but instead hinders your argument.

  150. docoman

    Ahh yeah, that's right. I remember Forbidden Archeology now. I did start to watch it once, but he lost me when he started outright lying about fossil records and life to help fit his ideas.
    He lost me at the same place again this time.

    Are you aware that he bases his theory on Veda, (no, not Darth from Star Wars :) which is;
    "(Non-Christian Religious Writings / Other Non-Christian Religious Writings) any or all of the most ancient sacred writings of Hinduism, esp the Rig-Veda, Yajur-Veda, Sama-Veda, and Atharva-Veda"

    His interpretation of some old Religious writings. I thought you didn't believe in Religion? I know, it should have been enough of a warning for me, but in the interests of discovery, I pressed on.

    Anyway, at around the 5 minute mark, he puts up a chart showing 'fossil' records, and says that the oldest single celled life in the geologic record is about 2 BY's old, and adds, 'which is, interestingly enough, the beginning of the Day of Rama" The Day of Rama (could be the wrong spelling, is what it sounded like he said) according to his theory is when life started.
    So, about his assertion of 2 BY's ago life first appeared in single celled form in the geologic record, to help support his other assertions.

    The following is from the Department of Geology at Baylor University;

    "Other fossils reported from the Archean Eon, 4.6 to 2.5 billion years ago, include:

    3.5 billion year old filaments of cyanobacteria (blue-green algae) from the Warrawoona Group at North Pole, western Australia

    3.4-3.5 billion year old stromatolites composed of cyanobacteria and sediment from the Pilbara Shield of Australia

    3-3.4 billion year old spheroidal structures resembling cyanobacteria from the Fig Tree Group of the Barberton Mountain region of southern Africa

    3 billion year old stromatolites from the Pongola Supergroup of southern Africa

    2.8 billion year old stromatolites from the Bulawayan Group of Rhodesia "

    Clearly the man is a liar. The chart was a cheap trick, an amateur attempt at misdirection, hoping his BS will fly under the radar.

    Sorry, wrong.

    Add this one to the 95 % mate.

  151. docoman

    If I were you, I'd be asking myself why you believe 'Forbidden Archeology', when it took someone else only 5 minutes to conclude beyond reasonable doubt the man is a liar?
    As pointed out by another poster, once you lie you loose all credibility with any more statements you make. Sorry, but I can't watch any more after 5 minutes, he's dishonest.

  152. docoman

    "...Since when has..."Son"..., ("I believe you would get more sense out of your Son, even aged 4...") been a name? "

    Only since the first time a parent called their child that. You've not heard of 'son' used as a noun before? Well, you have now.

    As an example of another place you've gotten it wrong to another poster. You said;
    "Do you also realize that there are British English and American English spelling differences? I’m of British decent by the way, so start checking the spelling differences, and then shut up!"

    Do you REALISE that you used the American spelling REALIZE? Sorry, that isn't it mate, Aussies use Brittish English too. Even though it seems you, like most of us at times, get them mixed up.

  153. Giacomo della Svezia

    I must say I admire your patience.

  154. docoman

    Thanks mate, although I can't take all the credit. I'm medicated. ;)

  155. Giacomo della Svezia

    : D Then my question is: if, in spite of your medication, you are still that coherent, what on earth is Shadowman taking??

  156. docoman

    Well, if he's correct, the poor bloke has had ET's messing around inside his head when he's trying to sleep. Maybe he could use some help to sleep, get some peace from them.
    If he's wrong.... maybe he could use some help to sleep, get some peace from them. ;)

  157. Giacomo della Svezia

    I sincerely hope he finds some. : D

  158. GRUMPY25608

    Yes I do as this woman raised me as her son, (and did a great job in my opinion). She is also my biological mother. DNA tested......

    Was my question to you about your views on religion to hard to understand or are you just a rude pr*ck?????

  159. GRUMPY25608

    In a court of law it would be up to you to prove your statement, not up to me to disprove your statements. I think you should ensure that you can prove your statement prior to making such absurd comments about your personal beliefs.

    I see by your posts that you don't believe in GOD. WHY???????

    Calling me uneducated clearly shows your lack of common sense as if you were correct, this discussion would not be taking place due to my lack of education. Clearly that is not the case.
    However you have demonstrated on your posts that you are without doubt a F**K WIT.. I'm sure if required you could get a second opinion from the many other posters that have been keeping up with this conversation,

    Taking your advise I went to the net to ensure that I understood what an IFO is. Identified flying object are just as it sounds, during my search at no stage has there be any mention of ET's or your "EBEs" driving them. The problem I'm having is at no stage have you shown any proof to what your saying is true.

    My 4 year old son is named Jack. Docoman did not say he has a 4yr old at all, he made a comment about my son(Jack). Just another example of you being wrong again.

    If your belive that I'm uneducated, you must feel let down by your education system, as I have demonstrated some reasonable feedback to your rantings. I'm sure your parents must be gobsmacked that they spent so much money, time and effort in your education for you to be such a dumb c*nt.

  160. kissmyasp

    Shadowman,
    I referred to your poor grammar as not helping you to convey your logic (if you had any).
    You on the other hand have replied with a tirade of punctuation palpitations to do with my use of the comma.

    There is a lot of difference between the words 'punctuation' and 'grammar'.....just another example of your misunderstanding of some very basic terms.

    So in the intersts of keeping this to the point and with as little punctuation as possible, you are entitled to your dreams of grey people visiting you but your logic is very flawed and so are your manners.

  161. ShadowMan

    ....Yes, and what about the millions of photos and videos of IFO's flown by EBE's? When groups of people SEE an IFO that clearly defies our aerodynamic abilities in air craft, then we have to assume it's none human created, yes? You can go on saying...It could well be human made etc, how do you explain a disk craft that zooms across the sky in an instant? It moves in an intelligent manner, the massive G forces will be enough to break bones of a human if flown by a human anyway!

    It could well be a drone of some sort, but it could never do as I mentioned previous. Air craft controllers witnessing a target on their radar scope, then disappears and reappears instantly 500 miles due south of the scope for example, then hovers around in an intelligent manner again! Many control tower employees report this now & again, world-wide!

    This is just one happening in one of the categories of the ufo/ifo phenomena too! Simply, you haven’t seen, therefore, you don’t believe, plain & simple. Next, I can give you reports of school children around the world sighting and witnessing IFO’s and them landing, and witnessing strange beings exiting just meters away, (whole classes and whole schools witnessing!)

  162. ShadowMan

    ...There you go, taking the word of government employed archeologists. Many are told to debunk "oddities", (many are hidden in museum vaults under the museum) found, that can not fit the paradigm of time written in famous history books we were all lead to believe! They have been debunking many this way, and will continue to do so! O’, and by the way, carbon dating has been shown not to be reliable too! It has its faults. So both Cremo and the historians have no real say in dating! Just the weird oddities like a human finger found in the same strata as the dinosaurs etc. An ax also found and the compounds to make it are not able to be mixed today! Also there were unknown compositions discovered within too, (analyzed by experts in this field.)

  163. over the edge

    ShadowMan
    "what about the millions of photos and videos of IFO's flown by EBE's? " please show me these photo's and videos and more importantly the proof that they have been identified? hearsay,personal testimony and non documented identifying claims are not evidence in my book. along with anything that requires me to make an assumption without demonstrable proof

    "When groups of people SEE an IFO that clearly defies our aerodynamic abilities in air craft, then we have to assume it's none human created" why would someone assume anything? in these claims have ALL other possibilities been examined and demonstrated to be false?

    "how do you explain a disk craft that zooms across the sky in an instant?" i do not. and furthermore i do not have to. i am not making a claim you are so the burden of proof lies solely with you.

    "This is just one happening in one of the categories of the ufo/ifo phenomena too! Simply, you haven’t seen, therefore, you don’t believe," that sounds very similar to explanations from religious people, Bigfoot sightings, loch ness sightings and so on. and you present as much demonstrable proof as they do.

    if all you have is hearsay,assumptions, false dichotomies, personal testimonies and unexplained occurrences you will have a hard time convincing those who use critical thinking and demonstrable proof as a basis for accepting the claims of others.

  164. over the edge

    ShadowMan
    "carbon dating has been shown not to be reliable too!" could you point me to evidence backing this claim? please do not point me to occurrences that are known to science like volcanic eruptions,non in situ artifacts, the reservoir effect, and so on. these effects are well known to science and they take the above mentioned instances (among others) into account before dating an object.

  165. ShadowMan

    ...There is NO such name as..."Son", there is "Sonny", Sonnie", but no 'Son", I don't know where you got that absurd name from, but it's not registered anywhere I have looked on the net!

    As for "realize' & realise, my spell checker automatically changed it from the 's' to 'z' as I proof read etc, I have it set on American English. Seems you don’t check out things well do you.

  166. GRUMPY25608

    The term "son" is use as a reference to ones, male child, as "daughter" is a female child.

    Why don't you answer all the question put to you?

    The reason most questions are asked,is to help inlighten the person asking the question. (help understand others knowledge, ideas and beliefs of the person the question is asked off.) As an uneducated person as you have stated that I am, shouldn;t you have the responsibilty to pass your knowledge on to a lesser educated or in your opinion you have expressed in me personally about my education level, or the lack off, on all subject matter. Not only the subject matter that you feel I have the right to know.

  167. ShadowMan

    ....So in reality, you don't even understand any English words to get the meaning I am conveying to you then? The whole post that you fault, you can't get any idea of what it's all about?!!! Not even the context of all of it? O' my God, you really need to go to an English language school for none native speakers of English then! I honestly have to say this, I have never encountered someone like you who can’t get the context of such simple talk, so sad!

  168. ShadowMan

    1:....Are you serious in me having to prove that I have seen and met aliens! Let me tell you the obvious reason why, do you realize, that we are dealing with a much higher intelligence than us, so in having to get this presented to you for example, would require their consent first. Do you think they would go along with that? Think about this well. So, with even the videoing and photos etc that is going on, this is not enough to convince most people, so, I’m stuck with my just telling people what I saw and met, and that’s the only way for now, to convince the world. So you see my, and millions of others predicament.

    2: Please show where I said that I do not believe in God? I believe in a God, but not the Christian, Muslim, Jewish etc way of God’s appearance. The Native Red Indians have got this perfectly in describing God….they pray to the trees, land, water etc, because this is God! An abducted, (abducted by aliens) presented a question to them..."Do you believe in God which is in the image of man?" The alien replied in English with a confused look..."The universe is God!" We don't understand why you think God is in human form, we are confused.” Makes a whole lot of sense does that answer for me!

    3: …Calling you uneducated is correct, you use foul language towards me, so I have the right in calling this, don’t you say?! Only common people resort to insulting, foul language, and sarcasm etc, as do you childish buddies here, who back you up too!

    4:…” understood what an IFO is. Identified flying object are just as it sounds, during my search at no stage has there be any mention of ET's or your "EBEs" driving them.” …Unbelievable! You mean to tell me, that you just looked up the meaning of IFO in a dictionary! Look on UFO sights, there you will surely find the meaning for IFO’s flown by aliens, not IFO’s known as recognized human constructed craft! Jesus, what’s wrong with you!

    5: I know that about the “Son” part that was relayed by ‘Docoman’ about you having a son! The “Son” part in his posted comment to me, states, ("I believe you would get more sense out of your Son, even aged 4...") he put the son part “Son”! Capital ‘S”, look at the sentence, it should clearly be… ("I believe you would get more sense out of your son, even aged 4...") Please look carefully before putting forth accusations, and of me being a D**b C***t, because this shows how dumb you really are to the world also!

  169. ShadowMan

    ....And as to your ...Kissmyasp" ID, change it to "Kissmyagb", then I can kiss your ass goodbye, with one big kick in the ass! Lol.

  170. Giacomo della Svezia

    You really can't see what the important reasons for doubting your assertions are, do you? So sad...

    I'll give you some hints: It's not your grammar, nor your punctuation, and not your spelling abilities either. Can you guess?

  171. ShadowMan

    ....its early hours of the morning for me now, just a quick reply to you...."what about the millions of photos and videos of IFO's flown by EBE's? " please show me these photo's and videos and more importantly the proof that they have been identified? hearsay, personal testimony and non documented identifying claims are not evidence in my book. along with anything that requires me to make an assumption without demonstrable proof." ...Do you know a site called Youtube? Do you know a site called Google? Please check out the thousands of evidence that has been proven on the existence of alien intervention here on our planet! Go, go, go, fetch doggy!

  172. ShadowMan

    ...Do you know these sites called 'Youtube', and 'Google'? Theres' good doggy fetch and present the proof that I already found out on carbon dating being not accurate!

  173. over the edge

    ShadowMan,
    "Do you know a site called Google? Please check out the thousands of evidence that has been proven on the existence of alien intervention here on our planet! Go, go, go, fetch doggy!" oh great sarcasm instead of answers. i have seen many examples but none provide demonstrable,fact based evidence that show the claims to be a fact. so again. please show me one or two of what you think are the best examples that prove your claims.

    if all you have to offer id sarcasm,baseless claims and speculation then this is going to be a short exchange. it is not my responsibility to go out looking for evidence to support your claims it is yours

  174. ShadowMan

    ...Don't try to cover up yourself in being so dumb please; it only insults your low intelligence further!

  175. over the edge

    ShadowMan
    again it is not my responsibility to find proof for YOUR claims. please present me with the evidence that supports your claim and i will look at it.

  176. ShadowMan

    ....It IS your job to go hunting about my claims on alien doings here on earth, but anyway, here are some names of experts who will provide a good insight into what is going on in the alien intervention here on earth, ...Budd Hopkins, John Mack, and David. Jacobs are just a few, who will show you the way, I literally, have tons of examples to show you, but this will do for starters, the actual video evidence, check out the Mexico ufo sightings in the last 20 years, here is a good example…Mexico city has had thousands, and air traffic controllers even sneaking in their own video cameras to provide evidence of alien craft hovering around the airports, (these airport encounters are world-wide by the way!) Let me know what you think? Good night! Or good morning!

  177. over the edge

    ShadowMan
    ".It IS your job to go hunting about my claims on alien doings here on earth," your ego and sense of importance is as overblown as your so far baseless claims. giving me a list of names and requiring me to read through that volume of text is not only not going to happen based solely on your claims that they have evidence but is avoiding the burden you assumed by making the initial claim. also stating that i should "check out the Mexico ufo sightings in the last 20 years" is a unreasonable request to make of another poster on a web site. so please provide me with the best one or two SPECIFIC examples that i can research in a reasonable amount of time (links would be great). if not i will move on and dismiss your baseless claims

  178. ShadowMan

    ...Do you know that you are totally unbelievable!! I just cannot get how you brush away those given examples in my last post to you, THIS IS PROOF! What do you exactly need? Would you like me to introduce you to an alien in the flesh? Would this please you!! Unbelievable, totally unbelievable you are! You are just rolling around, honestly! Playing games, and don’t say you’re not, I don’t buy it either!

  179. ShadowMan

    ...Correction..."Trolling".

  180. Giacomo della Svezia

    I won't react to your childish response.
    I looked up those names you gave. The only one that I would seriously consider as a reliable person is John Mack, but he didn't find anything conclusive, exactly because he was the only sincere researcher that you came up with...

  181. Kateye70

    You're making an assertion with nothing to convince a neutral third party. That's all over-the-edge has been saying.

    As much as I'm convinced there is indeed life on other planets, I'm still very much unconvinced any of it has found its way here, or would even have the least interest in or motivation to do so.

    That said, always make sure you have lint in your bathrobe pocket and a screwdriver and toothbrush handy. Don't forget the beer, either. Forget about the towel.

  182. over the edge

    ShadowMan
    lol you are calling me a troll. i ask for specific examples so i have something specific to examine. i cannot addrress every claim within this forum. that is why i asked for your best one or two specific examples. if they are unable to stand on their own and need to be propped up by a sea of unfounded claims then they are not proof of anything. excessive quantity will never make up for a lack of quality. so do you have one or two specific examples that you have confidence in or not?

    DO NOT accuse me of playing games or trolling to try to hide your lack of evidence. it will not be tolerated

  183. over the edge

    Kateye70
    you always need your towel
    "You can wrap [the towel] around you for warmth as you bound across the cold moons of Jaglan Beta.wet it for use in hand-to-hand combat...wrap it around your head to ward off noxious fumes.any man who can hitch the length and breadth of the Galaxy, rough it...win through, and still know where his towel is, is clearly a man to be reckoned with."

  184. GRUMPY25608

    @Shadowman
    1:....Very serious about you having to prove your claims that you have had personal encounters with your said "EBEs". eg. You can not go to the bank and tell them you own a house, and then it's upto them to prove you claim. The burden of proof is up to person making the claim.

    2:....After re-reading all your post again, I do appoligise about the assumption that you did not believe in "GOD". As you do believe in "GOD" again what evidence can you provide me to believe that your beliefs are no more than your own personal beliefs and not fact, in both your beliefs. I personally dont believe in god or religion, however if at a latter stage evidence comes to hand to prove this claim my dis-belief wont change.

    3:....Your accusation of me being uneducated and having a small and narrow mind,is just as rude and insulting as me calling you a dumb c**t. The difference is the wording as the meanings are in fact very much the same. I also called you a F**k WIT, as pr the meaning found via your advise through GOOGLE. re: look up urban dictionary. Do bother to ensure you don't miss another learning experance let me enlighten you with said diffinitions are;

    A f*ck-wit is a individual with absolute no wits or intelligence and tries to come off smart when really they are just a f*ck wit..

    A person who professes superior self knowledge but really has only a limited and/or skewed grasp of any subject. These people often float from the bottom of the turd bowl in the form of a middle manager. Fuck-wit detection is fairly easy after about 30 seconds of conversation.

    4:....Birds are not man made yet they by definition they are IFOs so your argument is floored by your own difinitions, so any points you make after that about this point also looses credit.

    5:....The error in docomans post looked more like a typo, than poor grammer, and from what I have read during this discussion, the old saying comes to mind, "People in glasshouses should not throw stones".
    Your ranting and raving have had no sense, structure or meanings at times.

  185. ShadowMan

    ....Doesn't matter if she raised you up, means nothing, so where is the proof, like you to me in my sightings and encounters of aliens, you say you had a DNA testing, I want to see the papers?! Please post to me. Same thing isn't it?!! And, I'm not being rude at all; I just asked if your mother is your mother, not insulting you took/viewed it the wrong way!

  186. ShadowMan

    ....Did you also check out John Mack's interview with 62 South African school children, (and some of their teachers also witnessed too) who ALL witnessed an alien craft land near their school, and ALIENS exited the craft! They all drew the same beings, as the principle said...Why would 60 children and teachers lie?" Here is the youtube title…. “Zimbabwe - UFO - 62 School Children” (this site Disqus asks for their approval before posting with links, so I now give the title of the clip instead to you, this works better.) there are many clips of this, this one gives the best accounts. There are many of large groups of school children and teachers who have had similar as this, South America, Russia, UK, (a school near where I used to live would you believe it!) USA etc, I suppose you will say, (after viewing)” it’s all hearsay, all delusional etc”. There’s got to be some shred of truth here somewhere, can’t all be BS as you say.

  187. ShadowMan

    ...Ok, I'm now posting this to all here, that say they "need proof", here is something you should consider true ok!! ..."....Did you also check out John Mack's interview with 60 South African school children, (and some of their teachers also witnessed too) who ALL witnessed an alien craft land near their school, and ALIENS exited the craft! They all drew the same beings, as the principle said...Why would 60 children and teachers lie?" Here is the youtube title…. “Zimbabwe - UFO - 62 School Children” (this site Disqus asks for their approval before posting with links, so I now give the title of the clip instead to you, this works better.) there are many clips of this, this one gives the best accounts. There are many of large groups of school children and teachers who have had similar as this, South America, Russia, UK, (a school near where I used to live!) USA etc, I suppose you will say, (after viewing)” it’s all hearsay, all delusional etc”. There’s got to be some shred of truth here somewhere, can’t all be BS as you say.

  188. ShadowMan

    ...Ok, I'm now posting this to all disbelievers here, that say they "need proof", here is something you should consider true ok!! ..."....Did you also check out John Mack's interview with 60 South African school children, (and some of their teachers also witnessed too) who ALL witnessed an alien craft land near their school, and ALIENS exited the craft!

    They all drew the same beings, as the principle said...Why would 60 children and teachers lie?" Here is the youtube title…. “Zimbabwe - UFO - 62 School Children” (this site Disqus asks for their approval before posting with links, so I now give the title of the clip instead to you, this works better) there are many clips of this, this one gives the best accounts. There are many of large groups of school children and teachers who have had similar as this, South America, Russia, UK, (a school near where I used to live!) USA etc, I suppose you will say, (after viewing)” it’s all hearsay, all delusional etc”. There’s got to be some shred of truth here somewhere, can’t all be BS as you say. I hope this changes your mind. :O)

  189. ShadowMan

    ...Ok, I'm now posting this to all disbelievers here, that say they "need proof", here is something you should consider true ok!! ..."....Did you also check out John Mack's interview with 62 South African school children, (and some of their teachers also witnessed too) who ALL witnessed an alien craft land near their school, and ALIENS exited the craft! They all drew the same beings, as the principle said...Why would 62 children and teachers lie?" Here is the youtube title…. “Zimbabwe - UFO - 62 School Children” (this site Disqus asks for their approval before posting with links, so I now give the title of the clip instead to you, this works better.) there are many clips of this, this one gives the best accounts. There are many of large groups of school children and teachers who have had similar as this, South America, Russia, UK, (a school near where I used to live!) USA etc, I suppose you will say, (after viewing)” it’s all hearsay, all delusional etc”. There’s got to be some shred of truth here somewhere, can’t all be BS as you say. I hope this changes your mind. :O)

  190. GRUMPY25608

    I find your reference to my mother extremely insulting to say the least.. With saying that due to a medical problem all my mothers family was tested to see if anyone was a suitalbe organ donor. You do not have the right to demamd anybody for medically in conferdence material not about you personally. If you think that I would provide my private information over a public site, to you or anyone for that matter you are a bigger fool than you have shown yourself to be.

    It is not the same as one is open to the public for all to have an opinion on, one is of a private. I could put to you the same about your mother. The fact I wont send you my personal information on un open forum should not surprise you, also contravenes the rules of this site.

  191. ShadowMan

    ....There, it hurts doesn't it, when I mention your mother or other family member, that's how I feel when you insult me in saying all my testimonies as BS! So don't do onto others, as they could do to you! I have truly had encounters, proof, how?!!!! You tell me how I can bring proof of my alien craft sightings, actually, I had recorded on 2 separate occasions, alien craft on my cam-corder, (Sony 8, tape type) around 14 years ago, the tapes are in storage in the UK, I haven't retuned back in 12 years, as soon as I get my hands on them, I will convert to file, then post it on YT.

    How do I show proof of my extraordinary encounters of the forth kind? You are asking the impossible, like your other friends demanding from me here on Disqus. Put yourself in my position! All I can do is tell and compare mine with others similar experiences. You won’t get solid proof from me, as with millions of others, live with that!

  192. GRUMPY25608

    In the opinion of his peers; Mack was censured in the committee's report for what they believed were methodological errors. So that must put an element of doubt in his final conclusions.

  193. GRUMPY25608

    The subject matter you are referring to when bring my family into it is of a private nature, as opposed to the subject matter that this site has availed us to discuss openly. So me rebuking your claims about this subject is appropriate.

    On the subject of the fourth kind after further investigation, I see it is a resently released movie, starring Milla Jocovich and Elias Koteas.

  194. kissmyasp

    Shadowman...
    Again and again you attempt to hijack the debate in order to sidetrack the issue away from your lack of factual evidence for your beliefs.
    I find your hostility and lack of logic both stunning and boring. You resort to being offensive...a sign you have lost the debate. Give up and stay in the shadows with your grey friends dude.

  195. over the edge

    ShadowMan
    a link to a specific event. thank you. i watched the video and did a little (yes only a little) research of my own. when pressed for your best one or two pieces of evidence this is what you present? no physical evidence at all. personal testimony carries little weight with me. the link also did not address any of the obvious possibilities other than aliens, so when separated from the pack your example contains nothing physical,shows no data and relies solely on personal testimony. i was expecting a grainy/out of focus video showing nothing specific at the least. if personal testimonies of an event are all you require to be convinced you must believe some strange/contradictory things

  196. GRUMPY25608

    I found your obseration of shadowman to be correct in my opinion.

    I entered this thread, hoping to broaden my knowledge on this subject. As I'm very much a sceptic on all subjects it is my responsabilty to investigate for the matterial availible to me to either confirm or deny my scepticism. That being the case Shadowmans answers have at no stage tackled the question that have been put forward to him, which I personally find that rude and insulting to say the least.

  197. docoman

    Haven't heard of Son? Ask any Christian, "Father, Son and Holy Spirit". You'll find it in the most printed book of all time. I'm assuming you know what a book is?
    And you say it seems I don't check out things well, after that?

    With UK v's US English. Even though that's not the issue (understanding you properly was, not spelling), you used that as an excuse as to why people can't understand you sometimes. Now you're saying that the example I highlighted where you were using US, was corrected by your spell checker.
    So, which is it, it can't be both. Either you're misunderstood, supposedly because of UK v's US English spelling, or your spell checker automatically changes it to US, rendering the first excuse untrue.

  198. ShadowMan

    Ha-ha, so "GRUMPY25608"'s son, (oooop's Son) is Jesus reincarnated then...hahahahaha, you honestly make me laugh "docoman", you really do! As for your..."UK v's US English spelling" I sometimes change my own spell check from USA to UK myself, When I type for example, 'realise', it changes it to 'realize' but I change it back to UK spelling. If you can't understand any of the sentences I typed, then you must be a non native speaker of English then, are you? I checked over my posts, they are all understandable in context; so must be you are either ‘thick’ or a non native speaker of English, and which is it? I have never had problems with all my thousands of posts I have posted in the past! Obviously you are lying then.

  199. ShadowMan

    ...Are you for real!!!!! 62 school children and some teachers swore blind in seeing aliens coming out of their disk craft and you are still unconvinced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are clearly, 'nuts'!!! A thousand times over too!! I'm done with you, you nutcase, don't bother replying!

  200. docoman

    You asked me since when is 'Son' a name. I said 'son' can be a noun, it is many times used by parents. You said no it's not, you can't find any instances. I gave you the obvious one. I didn't say the usage I used in that instance was correct, (the capital S, as if it's a Proper Noun), but it is a Noun sometimes, despite your insistent ignorance.

    It's no wonder you can't see your own mistakes... if you knew they were mistakes, anything other then a 'typo' wouldn't happen so much. You show continually you are unable to understand and thus learn anything, so you won't see your errors even after they've clearly and plainly pointed out to you.
    And you now become even more rude, and once again, you are plainly wrong. And I'm a liar?
    Your arrogant nescience, driven by your inability to comprehend even basic ideas shows up your cretinous nature.
    Call me a liar? Bring other people's mother's into it. Call people trolls, Call others s*upid, ect. I've been more then generous to you, you ignorant, s*upid, most likely mentally ill twit. F**k you i*iot, and the BS you carry on with.

  201. docoman

    After doing a little research on what would appear to be a very creditable researcher, it would seem GRUMPY is on to something with John Mack.

    I watched some of the video of the Zimbabwe interviews conducted by John Mack. I was quite irritated by the very leading nature of his questions of the kids, he was continually prompting, often suggesting answers before the kids could finish. IF it was in a court of law, the other side's lawyer would be constantly objecting on the grounds of leading the witness.
    I was very surprised to then find out John Mack was a Prof. at Harvard. After more investigations, I found some more information on him. He started the UFO work after becoming a Prof. at Harvard. A review of his work was called for from Harvard. It was found he hadn't broken any rules, and was free to research what he chooses, although they noted they had some problems with his methodology.
    So did I by what I saw of his interviews of those kids. That coming from a Harvard Professor was disappointing. And as you said, he found nothing conclusive, and was the fairest of that 'bunch'.
    Put that one in the 5%, based on the kids. And I didn't see any teachers say they saw anything other then the kids reaction.

  202. over the edge

    to all
    some of us are starting to attack each other personally instead of attacking each others arguments. i understand that we all give each other the odd jab but lets try to remain as civil as possible. i try to be as unobtrusive as possible but if this continues i will have to start deleting posts and issuing warnings. thank you

  203. dewflirt

    Evening :) I watched a few snippets of the interviews with the 62 kids, part was from a doc called Experiencers (youtube). A few times it was said that he turned up a few months after the sighting and none of them said that the teachers saw anything. They were in the staff room. It doesn't take much time and effort to make kids believe anything. If a few of them saw something that spooked them, they could easily spook the rest. Who knows what they might have seen? Men standing on the roof of a car, creatures in the bushes? Let's not forget that they're in Africa, if I saw someone take off at a run I'd probably run too, might be something with teeth heading my way! 2 or 3 months chatting among themselves would be plenty long enough for a bunch of kids to create a good story, one they might come to believe. If you believe something strongly enough, it's not exactly lying when you tell of it, is it? I like my Aliens with a pinch of salt ;)

  204. dewflirt

    Also had a quick look at alien implants, they all look like grit or the micro chips you can get for pets. Maybe husbands and wives are keeping tabs on each other :)

  205. GRUMPY25608

    Although it took seven days of prompting ang badgering shadowman for some type evidence, Mack's docu was the best to date however, it would of had more strength if he had done his interview alot sooner than four months after the event, conducted he individual interviews first rather than have the group session first. Being children the power of suggestion has a far greater impact on thier mind compeared with adults.

    Still not enough for me to differ my opinion at this stage, however more of a working platform has now been constructed.

  206. docoman

    I agree with you, the Mack evidence was the best offered in the last week. I also agree that it had some problems with the way it was conducted, you mention some valid points.
    I would put it in the 5 % of 'weird'.
    If I was trying to 'reveal the hidden truth on ET's visiting Earth', I'd be going about it in a very different manner. I'm not interested in badgering and prompting anymore, trying to decipher the replies and exchanging insults for another week, attempting to get to any more of that 5 %. I've exhausted my patience there, as you could probably tell from my earlier post where I displayed my displeasure.

    I think it's quite revealing on this subject, that to find any evidence of any quality, you have to wade through at least 95% BS to get to the little that has some substance. Often that is misrepresented (teachers witnessed too)
    I'd think those people that are trying to convince others would have more of that 5 % ready to display on request. That seems to be too logical for the people I've come across that are trying to do the convincing, unfortunately.

  207. Jack1952

    That is the issue. Anecdotal evidence requires proof. If there is no proof your anecdote remains just that...a story. It needs physical corroboration. It may be true, may even be proven in the future, but at the moment it isn't fact. It is an anecdote.

    As an example, scientist were pretty sure that there were planets outside our solar system. They assumed this because they used our solar system as a model and believed that it was an ordinary solar system as solar systems go. However, they knew they could be wrong. It wasn't until planets were detected around other stars would mainstream scientists say that planets are a normal phenomena around stars. They wanted physical evidence. Logical assumption was not enough.

    You say you have seen things. Maybe you have, maybe not. No one should take your word for it no more than they should take mine about any subject. I will assume that you have. You then tell me that what it is that you have witnessed are aliens. Now I have two dilemmas. First I have to believe your story (?) then I have to believe your conclusion in correct. So I ask for the final thing that proves your anecdote...physical evidence. What do you say? You don't have it and it is impossible to get. In other words I have to have faith that you are a reliable witness and that your powers to reach a logical conclusion is impeccable. I don't know you. Under the circumstances, you have to have more. Like the scientist who looked for planets outside the solar system to prove a logical assumption, you have to prove it with your own physical evidence to prove what you see as a logical assumption. You may not like this reality but it is one you are burdened with.

  208. rocketmahn

    Hilarious! Did you know that ALL of Puerto Rico is an alien base?! YUP, and full of "bug-eyed" aliens! And there is a pilot that flies back and forth to Saturn regularly, but right now he is in a US prison. Even the interviewer begins to giggle himself because these people are so into the clouds themselves. Whatever you do, even if you don't to watch the WHOLE thing, check at the guy with the beard at 33:00 around there!!

  209. Kevin El Poeta

    50:40 "We are the aliens". Don't fall for the double-bluff, she meant it ;-)

  210. Jackson

    that guy is awsome

  211. Cindy Mann

    you are a dill get a life and stop trying to provoke people ,from angel

  212. Sertsis

    Q: How many clowns can you fit in one Austin Mini?
    A: Not half as many as came out of this Doc.

  213. rocketmahn

    If you have one pail that holds 2 gallons, and another pail that holds 5 gallons, how many pails to you have?

  214. silverwish1

    the first guy reckons that we're running out of clean water, running out of clean air, running out of room (haha), and running out of food! he sounded pretty smart up until that point (he only lasted 2 minutes), from that point on i knew this was a "loldoc" for id**ts. then i skipped on a bit and OH MY F****** GOD ITS RICHARD HOAGLAND! click >>>> cya

  215. I AM POP SLAG.

    damn almost predicted it right...its usually either hoagland or lazar...
    david icke makes more sense than these two

  216. silverwish1

    David icke is a classic! i recommend him to all my friends ^^

  217. Epicurus

    i hope by "classic" you mean "insane" and by "recommend him to all my friends" you mean, "warn everyone not to ever listen to him because of his insane claims"

  218. silverwish1

    i recommend him in the sense of "watch this nutter, hes totally hilarious", hes got everything, lizard people, the matrix, secret passages at number 10 downing street leading to sacrificial alters. he says everything with a totally straight face, hes a true comedian.

  219. Epicurus

    lol i completely agree.

  220. WTC7

    Really good post! I enjoyed reading it. There is only one point I found allowing a bit too much of speculation to base life on, primarily because we have no evidence to support it. That is the part where you say that "any potential alien life form, would not be quantum sized or star sized". I believe we don't know whether that may be true or untrue, as the only forms of life we have encountered and analyzed so far are those we found on Earth. Further to that, we still have no answer, and more importantly we have not even tackled the issue, of whether the constituent elements that create life we know of are some sort of life forms in the first place.

    Other than that, great post!

  221. Touchet

    Well personally, if I were abducted by aliens, I would beg them to improve my brain so that I could have a photographic memory and better analytical proficiency. They could stick what ever up what ever, I wouldn't care, just give me a scratch on the back, per se.

  222. Carl Hendershot

    Hello
    Copy>paste of my own material~? Your interesting. When does your book come out?

  223. docoman

    Hmm, a dishonest kid as well. You know very well you've used that elsewhere before, just like I said. A hint for you, look on youtube. I did. ;) My interesting... what?
    Or did you really mean, you're interesting?

    Still working on the book, gathering material. You might just make it in, under the chapter entitled "Dishonest Dumb Kids"

  224. Angellinegirl

    I am not offended if others don't believe me - i recognize that everyone is free to believe whatever they want - if i were offended i'd be disrespectful of your beliefs wouldn't i? All of us are entitled to form our own beliefs according to our education, cultural or social background and in line with whatever we have experienced in our lives. Personally, i didn't believe it either nor was i even into it until it happened to me and then i was pretty much forced out of my ignorance bubble and did some research into it. But one thing i never do is try and force my beliefs on other people - in fact i normally avoid telling people about it because i am aware of the stigma associated with it.

  225. Carl Hendershot

    Again my work. If you find it anywhere on the net under a different name let me know. ;) Until then keep on trucking.

    There are only two races on this planet - the intelligent and the stupid.

    I love this quote above.

  226. Katnea3

    Be Careful What You Wish For...eh? People who request to be "abducted" have no clue what they are asking for! (sigh) Malevolent ET's don't bargain with human abducted lab rats. Period! However, they will create your worst nightmare.....

  227. jackmax

    How do you know this..?

    It would appear by your statement that you are of the opinion that they are real.

  228. SPUD

    laugh out loud:D
    They wont stick anything anywhere unpleasant, The usual places are on the arms or legs but most people don't notice or feel around their body enough.
    As far as i know at the moment there are two types of procedures: a chip type of implant or injection and to be honest i don't know what either one truly does.

    Oh if anyone is interested i have the injection they didn't intrude i asked for something to happen and it did....eventually.

  229. SPUD

    There are considerably more dangerous humans to worry about here on earth than Aliens who are just curious about our evolution and where it's headed.

  230. SPUD

    It would be foolish to think we were the only intelligent lifeforms however intelligent is not a word i would use if meeting an Alien for the first time to describe the human race.

  231. SPUD

    This documentary is a load of poop just a load of i saw this they "MIGHT/MAYBE" be doing that and he/she said.. type of people.
    Don't get me wrong i believe in Aliens and i like my conspiracy documentary's when they provide some sort of evidence but this is just all hearsay....pure crud.

  232. SPUD

    Not sure on that laugh out loud but i have had an injection when i was asleep in my bed, Not fully sure what it does though.

  233. Katnea3

    Ever wonder what species controls the "dangerous" humans?
    You might consider watching the "Youtube" documentary called: "Ufo's Aliens Contact (Full Documentary).mp4 <--- This is by far the best alien agenda film around, bar none!

  234. Katnea3

    Asked?! Do share the details of your alien adventure! Silly Spudsy, tricks are for kids.......

    What you want or don't want is of no consequence to the Greys. They take what they want. Period.

  235. Katnea3

    Perhaps.....

  236. Katnea3

    We are a resource to them, nothing more. It would be silly to kill all the animals on your farm....right? The truth is....they use us for 'various' reasons.
    "Knowledge protects and ignorance endangers."

  237. jackmax

    Thank you for effort in your reply.

    I thought by your post I responded to, we may have been able to some type of actual dialogue about your post.

  238. Katnea3

    Why ask me mate? Sounds like "SPUD" is the Intel go-to guy regarding 'Space-Bro' contact?

    Apparently the just "ASK" method works! Wow, I've been wasting my time just standing on the roof of my house, waving a "Pleeeease Pick Me!" sign for ages now! (boy is my face red!)

    Hmmmmm, maybe I should of applied special LED "Running- Lights" round mah head as well? (grin)

  239. jackmax

    As my reply to you was over a month ago and spud only appeared in the last few days, Spud was not around when I first replied to your original post some what difficult.

  240. docoman

    I agree with much of what you've said. However, this particular 'documentary' didn't contain any of the 'highly respected' people you mention. They were all twits on this.

  241. jackmax

    I have not watched the doco you suggested as yet, I will over the next week and get back to you. ....;)

  242. Hardcard

    Space exploration hasn't ever stopped.
    Richard Dolan is simply lying.

    It's nowadays impractical to send manned crews to Mars, for example,
    How the hell do you plan to resupply the crews operating on Mars?
    We can resupply the ISS every 6 months or so (at great expense, by the way), but going to Mars is just too risky and too expensive..
    It's far easier and cheaper to send rovers and probes instead.
    So space exploration goes on every day despite those so called "Moon bases" (pretty absurd idea, by the way), the ISS keeps on orbiting, performing all sorts of experiments without ever detecting any kind of alien. If they did, we'd know. There would be no reason to hide it and so, people would, sooner or later, make it public. I mean MAKE IT PUBLIIC FOR REAL. I'm not talking about some isolated cases of people who talk to some journalists. I'm talking about HD alien footage (produced by ultra hd cameras like the ones they have onboard the ISS), measurements of all kinds, etc. In short: Serious evidence. Not those vague blurry and pixelated videos in which you can't see a thing, etc.
    I mean, what's all this fuss about aliens? It's pretty absurd to worry about this,let alone to be obsessed with it.

    If someone comes and wants to let us know, they will, and if not, they won't, we don't need to worry about that.
    If something were to happen, it would happen anyway whether we liked it or not.

    If beings were capable of reaching us, we would seem pretty primitive to them. Interstellar travel is reserved to levels of knowledge and intelligence we can't grasp...
    Do you think medieval people could seriourly grasp our current level of knowledge right away? They would probably try to commit suicide first or be perpetually affraid of us, they would rarely/never trust us. Then why do people expect to grasp interstellar civilization intelligence?
    We would be like children to them, they would know everything about us before we knew it ourselves, thus, we would be at their mercy.
    So stop acting as if you could do something about it, in case they were here doing stuff, which I doubt.

    What's interesting is that this kind of people never ask themselves "So what?". They just try so badly to expose all kinds of vague stuff, make funny leaps in logic and avoid everything that contradicts with their points in order to try to convince people that aliens are in the shadows...but that's it, they get stuck there. If you ask them "So what? If this is true, why should I care? Lots of other things are happening anyway and I don't know (and don't want to know) half of them. The day some alien wants something from me, then I'll decide whether to care about it or not. ".

    This makes them stop feeding their ego with the illusion of being superior to their audience and the absurd talk is over.

    ..

    .

  243. choochill

    While I will admit that some of the theories, and many of the interpretations of individual ET experiences we hear about are difficult to accept, I don't find them any more far-fetched than the stories we read in the bible or any other religious texts. If we want to achieve a higher level of consciousness, and to see our species advance toward our full potential, we must consider the possibility that today's accepted truths, may not be truths at all. Many of the greatest thinkers in human history have challenged previously accepted truths at great risk to themselves, only to be proven correct years later. Galileo comes to mind for instance. I don't think it is helpful to dismiss these people's ideas and experiences as lies or craziness. Instead, these things should be considered to be additional puzzle pieces that may help us to reach a better understanding of reality.
    When one considers the advances in computer technology over the last 30 years, looking ahead to the possible advances in the next 20 years simply boggles the mind! It is perfectly reasonable to expect advancements to continue, and to grow exponentially. Why we are still using combustion engines and rocket technology dating back more than 50 years then, raises a lot of questions. Obviously we are kept in the dark on a great many things.

  244. Russ Tul

    That raises the issue of the definition of life. From my biology class, I vaguely remember that there were some basic characteristics, such as the ability to respond to stimuli, reproduce, etc. that define life. I don't think there is a need to expand the definition so as to include rocks, which, in some cases can be shown to move, etc. But I do agree with you that our view of these things has always been too shallow, heliocentric, geocentric and egocentric to allow for other possibilities. I firmly believe that in a thousand years our progeny will be just as amused at our crude knowldedge of the universe as we are today when we look back a thousand years to how our ancestors explained things - probably even more so, because knowledge grows exponentially.

  245. Peter

    Doc really seemed to be a random assortment of people holding forth on their beliefs without a single individual actually pointing to any real evidence that makes them believe this to be so, particularly the vox pop at the end which felt like the film-makers had lost the plot entirely and were just making up time. I've seen lights in the sky on occasion (what the hell my brother the most dour down to earth individual even admits to seeing a 'cigar' shaped object) that aren't obviously aircraft but it dosen't mean they weren't aircraft or some other man made object like a satellite or natural phenomena like a comet or some such. To immediately attribute such sightings as been alien in origin makes no sense to my mind. I know we want to believe but........

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