The Zionist Story

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Ratings: 8.64/10 from 83 users.

Storyline

The Zionist StoryThe Zionist Story, an independent film by Ronen Berelovich, is the story of ethnic cleansing, colonialism and apartheid to produce a demographically Jewish State.

Ronen successfully combines archival footage with commentary from himself and others such as Ilan Pappe, Terry Boullata, Alan Hart and Jeff Halper.

From the author: I have recently finished an independent documentary, The Zionist Story, in which I aim to present not just the history of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict, but also the core reason for it: the Zionist ideology, its goals (past and present) and its firm grip not only on Israeli society, but also, increasingly, on the perception of Middle East issues in Western democracies.

These concepts have already been demonstrated in the excellent Occupation 101 documentary made by Abdallah Omeish and Sufyan Omeish, but in my documentary I approach the subject from the perspective of an Israeli, ex-reserve soldier and someone who has spent his entire life in the shadow of Zionism.

I hope you can find a moment to watch The Zionist Story and, if you like it, please feel free to share it with others. (As both the documentary and the archived footage used are for educational purposes only, the film can be freely distributed).

I have made this documentary entirely by myself, with virtually no budget, although doing my best to achieve high professional standard, and I hope that this 'home-spun' production will be of interest to viewers.

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Comments and User Reviews

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Farking-Spamhell/608791907 Farking Spamhell

    The so called "Jews" in "Israel" will not be "wiped out" by the Arabs. The "Jews" will become Arabs. They will eventually integrate into the local population.

    The original Jews of the Bible are in fact the modern day Palestinians/Arabs. The "Jews" in Israel today are mostly converts.

    There is no evidence of the Exodus or the Exile. It is all a story!
    The Jews of the Bible converted and stayed.

    This is the future for "Israel". There needs to be a huge shift in world political hegemony before this happens.

  • Wallub

    This documentary is extremely bias towards the Arabs. The Jewish people did nothing except take back the land that was rightly theirs. This documentary is nothing more then Palestinian propaganda.

  • http://twitter.com/PadreSpeaks Anthony Nardi

    palestinian propaganda by a self-hating jew, right? Same old story. Challenge Israeli policy, you're an anti-semite. All opportunities for a peaceful compromise were dismissed. Not by Palestine, but by Israel. Now they are paying for it by living with the guilt of selling out their holocaust ancestors. Shameful.

  • http://twitter.com/PadreSpeaks Anthony Nardi

    This documentary makes you look at yourself up against a mirror and forces you to decide if you play favorites or not. Come clean, hold no grudges, hold no allegiances, and ask yourself honestly if what is currently happening in Palestine/Israel is lawful or not.

  • BaBa7

    In the Balfour Declaration, Jordan was given to Arabs and Israel was given to the Jews. 1 million Jews fled from Jordan to be welcomed into Israel. 1 million Arabs fled from Israel to be....well, Jordan never welcomed them...nor did any other Arab nation.

  • Quebecois

    Zionism was born out of the same crazy nationalistic era that started to defined europe nationalist fever in the middle of the 19th century. The only thing is that they had done nothing wrong. Until then!
    Imperialism, the real land and riches expanding state nationalism did not dies with the end of the murdering craziness of the new imperial nationalism of Nazi Germany NOR with the fall of the British, french, portuguese, belgium empire. But it was transfered to the USA, Commonwealth, Russia ( pre and post communist), China, Opec, major corporations and Israel in a less dramatic level.
    What really impresses me, is why does the neighboring arab country don't do anything for their Palestinian brothers. Of course their is some radical islam that want to cut every jewish throat and react in desperate fits of anger with a sword in one hand and a Quran in the other. But every intelligent/educated persons knows that they are a marginal group of desperate lunatic and that the leader in these country will never do anything against Israel. At least for Now ( OIl $$$$/West).
    But in a strange way i am scared for the israelite, because what will happen when the west and the arab country don't give a caca(ashite) about oil business and stop financing political corruption in the middle east.
    Their will be a great massacre!
    So why can't we use some of that preemptive strike shite and get rid of these fascist nationalist for the sake of the jews and the palestinians.
    I'm scared of these peoples!

  • http://profiles.google.com/aaronboy1 Aaron Wayne

    Israel is a fascist state.
    The perpetrators of the ethnic cleansing of the native Arab population must be tried and punished the way we did the Nazis in Nuremberg.

  • http://profiles.google.com/mockey666 Danny Jones

    I imagine like anything to do with Israel the Hasbara(look it up if your not sure what it is) will be posting short, usually out of context pro-Israel dribble. Be warned. Wullub I'm looking at you, This Doco is just laying the facts out there bare for everyone to see. It has added weight coming from a Israeli Jew from the IDF. He would have had to partake in the persecution firsthand. We are all here for knowledge and sharing ideas, not propaganda.

  • slpsa

    i find it funny that someone from Quebec has this opinion. Your Province thinks it should own Canada and that all things Canadian should hold reverence to the French et al Quebec, as usual, that debate last night proved my point. Nothing personal, not meant to be that way, but the name kinda got me thinking about your comments. Quebecois aren't much for sharing land or resources or culture. Calling the kettle black tbh, if Duceppe and his gang had their way, i don't think it would be any different. They want Canada for themselves. Same thing no? To answer your question about why their brothers don't do something>? Because they cannot. Militarily, Israel outguns them all put together. Simple as that. They couldn't take down Israel collectively even if they wanted to. Period. There is a reason Israel does not want a nuclear armed Iran. That would tip the balance.

  • Guest

    Hey, everybody, send your cheek cells into the genome project for your genetic provenance; then when you realize you are a member of the same species which is in really, really deep trouble and that it is its own worst enemy, maybe we can focus on the fact that the physical systems of the planet are beginning to clean us off and, like The Terminator, you can’t kill it, you can’t reason with it, you can’t run away from it...... but you can smarten up, work together and try to remediate it.

  • Clix (????)

    Work together with who? With those who purport Zionism?

    Trust me, I am for the kumbayah approach wherever possible. However, one must take sides against oppression, racism and evil.

  • Guest

    I am against those things too.... that is part of "smartening up"... as slim as the possibilty is. You may call me a dreamer, but what else have I got? (and I'm not the only one).

  • Clix (????)

    You haven't answered my question. Work with who? Dreaming is nice. But, 4+ million Palestinians don't have the luxury of dreaming. You can dream all you want in the comfort of your melancholic world. If you're so genetically similar to these species who live in such unimaginable condition, shouldn't some sort of empathy for their suffering be your underlying concern? Or do you empathize more with those who oppress, subjugate and dehumanize?

  • http://twitter.com/salo99 Robert Elliot

    "What really impresses me, is why does the neighboring arab country don't do anything for their Palestinian brothers."

    Because the corrupt arab dictatorships need Israel's persecution of the Palestians to distract and redirect the rage of their citizens away from themselves. They use it in the same way that the West uses Islamophobia.

  • Guest

    Maybe the Zionists were actually early Nazis.... they did come from Europe.... and then what an incredible and tragic irony using the poor battered souls who survived the WWII Holocaust to further their purposes. Just like some politicians in the west calling themselves "Christians" and then invading and killing for oil and their lifestyles that "aren't negotiable" when many in the west don't actually have those lifestyles. And men hating and suppressing women and women avoiding men... The greedy crushing the poor... Trillions spent on weapons..... Fat people, emaciated people.... Educated people, ignorant people, ignorant educated people, brilliant stupid people..... sigh.....

  • IzirAtig

    There's nothing good in judaism. There's nothing good in christianity. There's nothing good in islam. Even Hitler and Nazis looks like peacefull hippie movement alongside those ideologies.

  • Guest

    Of course I empathsize with the horrors of inhumanity.... and I am way beyond melancholic. But check out Gush Shalom if you already haven't. There are always people who speak up.... and they often pay dearly for it.

  • bulletbees

    Nothing good is within any religion or ideology.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-Leonard/100002053490466 Patrick Leonard

    I can't watch this. The first few minutes start off with lies. freakin amazing.

  • Clix (????)

    Well, let's talk about those lies. List them. that's what this forum is for. Otherwise, your statement has no legitimacy.

  • Quebecois

    It a bit harsh slpsa! come on!
    Not even 40% of Quebeker are separatist, and the Bloc Quebecois, to which you refer, is a douchebag nuisance reminiscent of the meech lake accord. Most people vote for them because the liberal party is such a scam. I'm French and i'm voting NPD.
    At least compare it to Northern Ireland or the Basque in Spain, not Israel, even then it would still be a bias comment.
    As for the answer on Israel military power, Thanx!
    And peace bro!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1846471390 Javed Ahmed

    its based on historical fact, no matter you like it or not

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-Leonard/100002053490466 Patrick Leonard

    Ok...I went ahead and watched it. Glaring omissions. Here's one...a palestinian killed because he sold his property (legally) to jews. This was quite a piece of PA propoganda.
    "...as for over 1300 years since the very beginning of Islam, Jews and muslims lived together in unprecedented religious and cultural harmony.."
    The "Documentary" starts off with a bald faced lie! Freakin' amazing.
    I ought to spend a little time picking this thing apart piece by piece, but the people that actually believe this tripe won't change their views anyhow.
    Maybe the Brit should consider making reparations for the vile acts the British perpetrated on my ancestral homeland..Ireland.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Odin-Noogrodamus/100001277324638 Odin Noogrodamus

    i heard zero lies in the first few minutes...i would love to hear what your calling lies

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-Leonard/100002053490466 Patrick Leonard

    Heck, I don't even know where to start! Look above for #1. During the War of Independence, there were several settlements overrun by Arabs. Did he tell you what happened there? That the events there preceded Dir Yasin?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-Leonard/100002053490466 Patrick Leonard

    Other things: That it was illegal for jews to purchase land in the Turkish empire. (ooo, there's religious and racial tolerance for you), that the same is the policy of the PA? Let's discuss the treatment of Palestinian Christians by the PA? The murder of Jews by Palestinians when they go on pilgrimage to Sarah's tomb? Or the latest atrocity, sneaking into a family's home and murdering the father, the mother, and the children? What, you think this is unique? Justified?
    How 'bout that the land was stolen from the jews in the first place. The land isn't originally Arab to start with...it was part of Byzantium before Islam rose, and before that it was part of the Roman Empire. Heck, in the Roman Empire, Judaism and Jews were treated better(before the revolt in AD 70 and the Bar Kokhba Revolt later) than in any other country since! Before the Romans, it was ruled under the Maccabees...before that, the Greeks ruled the land but the Jews lived there!
    Now we have children of murderers and theives, with a religion of intolerance, claiming the land their ancestors murdered for is their ancestral homeland! What tripe.
    They don't tell you that the Ancient Christian Community in the West Bank is under so much pressure from palestinians that they are having to move to places like Australia so they aren't murdered without witnesses. The hypocrisy of the PA knows no bounds, and these poor Israeli schmucks have fallen for their propoganda, hook, line, and sinker.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-Leonard/100002053490466 Patrick Leonard

    The whole point of the Crusades was to take back land stolen from Byzantium (Eastern Roman Empire) stolen by the Arabs! Wow...I guess they don't teach classical history in school anymore!
    Let's talk about how Arabs treat indigenous populations when they conquer them...The treatment by the Israelis is child's play in comparison.
    I guess the Muslims can dish it out, but they can't take it!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-Leonard/100002053490466 Patrick Leonard

    By that measure...the United States is a Fascist State..So is Canada...and the worst of them all? The Palestine Authority!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-Leonard/100002053490466 Patrick Leonard

    I think the question is not about "lawful" or not, it is whether someone considers it "moral" or not. Since this battle has been going on for over a thousand years...neither side has any "moral high ground". The truth is, Hamas and the PA would like to see the extermination of every Jew in Israel. The racism of the Jews is a cultural thing, inherited from centuries of anti-Jewish bigotry and intolerance. Why are the Arabs really angry at the Jews in Israel? Because they seized land from a muslim country instead of paying Jizya; they hate Zionists because Zionists refuse to be the slaves of muslims.

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    lol me thinks thou doth protest too much, Jew. Zionism is evil - plain and simple. It is xenophobic and based on race/religion. It is SOLEY designed to benefit Jews, to the exclusion or detriment of anyone else. Now, that wouldn't matter in a Jewish world, but luckily, you are extremely outnumbered.

    Noone cares about your justification or propaganda - because they can think for themselves.

    All dumb people try and justify their evil. I have no love for terrorists or criminals in general.

    Your hot air is hot air until your free all the innocent people in Palestine - regardless of your excuses. We all know you create terrorism by incarcerating them in their own land.

    "People of God". Pfft. Never seen a more godless bunch in my life.

    On a side note, did you know that Israel has the highest number of athiests per head of population than any country in the world?

    No wonder. God does not live in Israel. Israel is the crazy nephew he pretends not to know.

  • Dovidw

    Yet another act of fiction by a Jewishly uneducated, self hating Jew. From the first outrageous comment referring to an idyllic harmonious cohabitation of Jews and Arabs flies in the face of the public record. A simple Google search (masacre Jews Arab countries) belies the very foundation of this entirely irrelevant "documentary."

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7NZ2QBWUQBBOWVRCZORZSV2TEM alans

    They need to rename the land Palestine-Israel and compose the government of half Palestinian, half Israeli government officials. Only solution I can think of.

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    Let me guess...another zionist.

    What the hell is "Jewishly uneducated" supposed to mean, anyway?

    Never mind, dont bother answering, I dont care. Just remember that you and your kind are in the minority, and that has massive implications for you - not for me. On the world stage, you are a dot. A blip. Next to nothing.

    So when the public's independent sense of justice comes around, which it has slowly being doing the past two decades, you had better have kept your nose clean.

    You count yourself as a Jew, before you count yourself human. This is how you can intellectually seperate yourself and justify these crimes.

    However, myself and Charles Darwin are here to tell you - you are NOTHING but a human, and your backwards religion and your backwards state, support apartheid.

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    I would like to congratulate, and humbly thank, the person who made this documentary. The truth is heard, and known.

    It is people like this that give me hope, and remind me that most Jews are decent, humble and loving people - this correlates with my personal experience when dealing with them.

    But as for the morons posting on here hoping to drown out dissent and the documentary itself - good luck.

    I have a habit of becoming resident in threads that I find important, and I act as an intellectual barrier against bullies like those posting here. You will find no peaceful place to sow your propaganda here.

    Nor will you find that this "goyim" is an intellectual push over.

    I lived with Israelis for a long time - all ex-military and intelligence. I know your secrets. I know how you talk to each other. I even know a good deal of Hebrew.

    I know HOW you lie. And I even know you know you lie ;)

    Shalom

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    I should point out here - I have never seen a non-backwards religion.

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    Holy s$%t almost 40% of Quebeker are seperatist?????!!

    And you "thank" someone for pointing out Israels military power?

    You sir, come across as a zionist nutjob.

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    omfg I cant believe people like you can have those ideas and still be able to use the internet and breathe at the same time.

    My favorite part of his drivel is where he says "The Jewish people did nothing except take back the land that was rightly theirs".

    Um, so ALL the jews now living in Israel, were previously illegally disposessed of land in that area IN THEIR LIFETIME? Because I think you may be reffering to ancient manuscripts and tradition and not any facts. And I can GUARENTEE almost 100% of Israelis cannot trace their lineage back to the "lands of Israel". So much for "nothing except take back the land that was rightfully theirs".

    Wasn't Ben Gurion Polish?

  • Dovidw

    You guess wrong. If you cannot work out what "Jewishly uneducated Jew" means, who obviously don't have the capacity for mildly intellectual thought; therefore any meaningful discussion with you is a waste of time! Your next comment is totally illogical and confirms your mental confusion.You reveal yourself to be a "dyed in the wool, commonall garden" antisemite.

  • zdenek

    Dovidw is paid for spreading zionist propaganda rubbish over internet.

  • ZarathustraSpeaks

    Then there's nothing good in mankind. The "humanist" movement becomes a placebo comfort pill just like all religions and ideologies as it tries to assign meaning to to the meaningless.
    Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player
    That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
    And then is heard no more: it is a tale
    Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing.
    William Shakespeare
    Macbeth, 5. 5.

  • eyecandy_babydoll

    Hate to say this but, genetically speaking, Jews and Arabs are actually closely related.

    My brother-in-law is a geneticist. He has done a lot of testing in the last 7 years in his field. I was shocked when he first told me this.

    But many races and cultures are closely related. Humans tend to use superficial things like appearance, skin color, religion and culture to separate people into "us" and "them".

  • eyecandy_babydoll

    Atheism is awesome :)

  • eyecandy_babydoll

    we live in a world full of ironies

  • eyecandy_babydoll

    True true, it's also backed up by DNA analysis.

    Jews and Arabs are actually very closely related genetically.

    Pretty ironic isn't it

  • Dovidw

    If your intellectual capabilities are comparable to your linguistic skills as in "I even know a good deal of Hebrew," then you must have problems shuffling a deck of cards! The singular of "goyim" is "goy" unless you are acknowledging your split personalty. Pray who is your audience that wilts under your incisive intellectual skills? Underachieving 5 year olds? It's interesting that you refer to people who disagree with you as morons. Case of the pot calling the kettle black, methinks. As a seeker after "truth" as you imply, did you look at the Google reference I offered you? Ever read a significant book on the Arab?Israeli conflict? Ever read a significant book on any subject? Your grovelling and ingratiating introduction as in "I would like to congratulate, and humbly thank...." proves the vacuosness of your position!

  • Clix (????)

    This is all you can come up with!? You either must be intellectually lazy or congnitivly challenged!

    1. To understand the conditions Jews and Muslims lived, read the Prophet Muhammad's own view on Jews and the treaties he entered with them so that his new found religion did not encroach up on the rights and way of life. Two of the prophet's wives were in fact Jews.

    2. Before Deir Yassin, a war broke out between the occupying Zionists and Palestinians over Jerusalem. The Zionists were losing the war, so they went and massacred women and children the village of Deir Yassin in retaliation.

    3. 'The land was stolen from the Jews in the first place.' What a preposterous argument. Most of the Zionists who call themselves Jews today are not Jews by blood, but by conversion into the religion. If that logic is applied, the nation of Ethiopia, one of the ancient Christan nation states, belongs to all Christian converts around the world. Can you see how bogus that would be?

    4. The Byzantine Empire was part of the Greko-Roman empire that occupied the land during their prominence. The people who lived on the land did not change during the Byzantine Empire, the people who ruled the land changed. When Islam rose to prominence, Islamic powers ruled the land. The people of the land remained the same. When Britain rose to power, it too ruled the land. The people of the land remained the same. The Zionists came, and they stole the land.

    5. 8% of the current population of the occupied West Bank are Christians, who also happen to be Arab by blood. The Zionists treat them all the same, and they suffer the same dehumanization the Muslim Arabs face.

    All the information I provided here can be verified by simply using your favorite search engine. Oh wait, the internet is an anti-semitic propaganda, right! I forgot about that!

    Any more 'lies' you want me to debunk?

  • http://profiles.google.com/younicorn7 Yolanda N

    LOL your last line is truly a joke !!
    What are you talking about lolololol

  • http://profiles.google.com/younicorn7 Yolanda N

    Great comment !
    Thank you

  • http://profiles.google.com/o.cornu Olivier Cornu

    Thank you for protecting this thread against bullies so i (and many others) don't have to.
    I'm with you (and i've got family in Israel, just in case silly anti-semitism accusations pop out).

    And congratulations, Ronen, for this great documentary: you have achieved the professional standards you were aiming for.

  • http://www.youtube.com/MadXMax187 Mad

    I hate every Zionist since Theodore Herzl

  • http://www.facebook.com/charles.mousseau Charles Mousseau

    ''a simple google search'' belies the very foundation of your comment..It depends if you choose not to see the links containing informations that you don,t want to hear about..And ''self hating jewish'' is always used by people having no arguments.

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    Hmm, so let me seee Dovidw - not only do you lack control of the English language, but you receive no "likes" to your comments. How dare you call me an antisemite - you racist slug. You claim it is totally illogical to call a human a human, and not a Jew? You are wrong. You are clearly a zionist, and that is plain to see by everyone. Therefore, your opinion, by definition, doesn't count - because Zionism IS racism

    "Jewishly uneducated" rofl. How about "is uneducated in relation to Judaism" or plain "uneducated". Engrish fail, buddy. "Christianily uneducated", "Muslimily uneducated". Rofl.

    Let me guess - English is your second language hadara. This goyim is not your fool, and quite likely your intellectual superior ;)

    So how much do you get paid for making these comments?

    I know all about you, having spent a large portion of my life living with Israelis. We break bread, celebrate your holidays together and discuss politics. I know your secrets, I know how you lie - and I even know that you know you lie ;)

    Shalom, evil one.

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    Please, continue. I love the way you degrade yourself in public by making petty points. I think your handlers should demote you. You are not particularly good at this it seems.
    Let me join you for a moment and be petty:

    V-a-c-u-o-u-s-n-e-s-s. Close, but no prize of someone elses homeland, I am sorry. Please try again.

    So you have moved on from calling me an antisemite?

    I dont believe it for a minute. Your kind spend most of your time relying on the antisemite thing.

  • Valian

    Good luck to everybody with the nice comments here!

    To everyone I say there are more bad things happening in middle east than the that about the jews and palestinians! There are other ethnic groups being murdered and have much less rights than the Pali. But it seems the world is addicted to this israeli -palestinian problem!

    How come no one care about the Kurds?, their situation is far more worse than those of the palestinians and way more in numbers. Its just something strange going on.

    How come no one care about the situation of the berbers (Amazigh) in north africa who are the true people of north africa and not arabs. Nobody seem to care about them.

    Many of you are hypocrites, You dont realy care about human life just about a special group of humans and that only because of hate to another group.

    Turkey sends boats to gaza and talks about human rights when they kill their kurdish population and dont even let them speak kurdish , officaly its free to talk but in reality not. There are many exemples!

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    I should point out that one of the Zionist hadara (dovidw - Dovid is the hebrew version of David, David is the king of the jews) has freely admitted that they use the term "goyim" to refer to non-jews - a perjorative term that historically was actually used by the ancient hebrews to refer to themselves as a nation.

    However, amongst Zionists it is used as a derrogatory term for "others". He actually corrected my singular/plural usage of the word in reference to myself - a rather simple trap you can use yourself in the future. Simply use it in plural, refer to yourself, and watch the fanatics rush to defend their holy language and unmask themselves as racists. Using a "j" in place of the "y" elicits the same response.

    ?????? ???? ???

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-Leonard/100002053490466 Patrick Leonard

    Good posting Psinet. The use of "Goi" and "Goyim" have been used as a "derrogatory" against Gentiles. Original meaning; people, tribe or nation.
    Strange creatures, these Zionists. Many were and are of Jewish descent and culture but are athiests; the original ones were dyed-in-the-wool Socialists and Marxists. Now the term Zionist is much broader; there are even people considered "Christian Zionists", who support "Aliya" and the Jewish Homeland.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-Leonard/100002053490466 Patrick Leonard

    I'm not sure of the angst over a civil war that has been going on either, Valian. We have two peoples, both violently racist, both living on the same piece of land. Both are right and both are wrong. So, pick a side. It doesn't really matter which, as both sides are equally culpable for heinous acts of violence and murder.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Patrick-Leonard/100002053490466 Patrick Leonard

    Funny thing about that. So...I guess it must be a religious war. I mean, since they both have the same genes, but they have different cultures and languages, different religions....
    I guess it all depends on which religion you ascribe to. And if you ascribe to none, than neither side should be supported.

  • Eniki520

    as a person who lost family in the holcaust it disgusts me to see zionists commit the same type of horrid acts in the name of jews. it is utterly disrespectful to those who died in the holocaust and disgusts me.

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    Extremely strange stuff I reckon, and just another example of the dangers of totalitarian religious extremism.

    Strange thing is, I love the "idea" of Jesus, much of Jewish mysticism, and hold deep respect for a culture that has existed throughout the ages. However, the stupidity of people who believe that "they" are "it" belies the simple truth - they are not, for there is no YAWEH to be chosen by.

    I think Israel should be allowed to continue existing - if you like, whats done is done and uprooting them is just another disaster. However, the sectarian non-zionists in Israel should stand up and fight for what is right - the freeing of the Palestinians from incarceration. Fear of terrorism is no excuse - you created the problem. Once we no longer have a reason to object to the Israeli/zionists themselves, we can turn our attention more towards stopping violence against them.

    As it is, it is hard to act shocked when some poorly educated, bitter and angry Palestinian youth kills someone.

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    I care about all - but it is those with the biggest guns, the most power, and therfore the biggest lies that should be focussed on.

    But PRIMARILY - this documentary is about Zionism. Not Kurds. Not Turkey. Not Amazigh. Not Chechnyans. Not Native American Indians.

    But Zionists.

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    Obviously, I pick the Palestinian side. Why? Because they are clearly the least able to DO ANYTHING about it. Continuation of the situation is down to Israeli policy - anyone who tries to declare otherwise is obviously a zionist.

    Most Palestinians are actually relatively moderate. They dont REALLY care beyond being allowed to live a life in relative peace. The fact that sections of the community have become violently anti Israel is irrelevant. They are in the minority. MOST Palestinians support a two state solution - as long as that means that their state is ACTUALLY a sovereign state, and not an open-air prison politely named a state.

  • Guest

    I am suspect of most films which state that they have the answer to why Zionists are such awful people but I thought I'd give this one a chance. Within the first two minutes the first lie came rolling out, given as historical fact, that before Israel, Jews and muslims lived in harmony. Jews were allowed to live in muslim occupied land as long as they behaved, bowed before arabs and didn't build any houses taller than a muslims', and those were the lucky ones. My man here forgets to tell of the slaughter of entire Jewish towns by muslims and how Jews have always had to live according to whatever dictates the local caliphate decided on. This is the real reason muslims hate Israel because Jews don't have to listen to them anymore and can finally tell them to f*** off.

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    Next Zionist please.

  • Justin_Funski

    More junk. The lies start within the first three minutes. The Jews aren't doing anything to the arabs that they haven't done to Jews for 1200 years. The reason muslims hate Israel is that Jews don't have to obey muslims anymore and can finally tell them to shove it.

  • bruin12

    You really are a dead head, as your name reads... If you knew anything about history, you would know that the arab-israeli conflict began somewhere close to the early 1900's. It does not take a mathematician to figure out that this doesnt equal 1200 years. Futhermore if you took some time to see the statistics for yourself you would find that palestinian-arab casualties further outweigh israeli casualties by a LONG shot. During both intifadas most israeli's killed were combatents whereas most Palestinan casualties were civilians. This is also true regarding the numerous massacres that were inflicted upon them (i.e. Jenin, Gaza, etc.). Check your sources before replying hateful, unintelligent replies.

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    Err...you realise noone lives for 1200 years right? Or do you believe in your ancient stories about longevity? So if one of my ancestors did something to your ancestor 1200years ago, its alright for you to take it out on me?

    Enjoy your public judgement meathead. Anyhow, I asked for zionists, not a 2bit warmongerer.

    NEXT

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    If you would like to know the stats, the Israelis kill around 170 Palestinian men, women and children for every Israeli killed.

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    Although I am not a zionist nor a nazi, and some of my family died trying to free Germany, I still feel the need to apologise for my fellow man, Jew or non Jew.

    It truly is disgusting to see zionists use the Holocaust and "antisemitism" as justification for evil. When a moron is beaten and abused as a child, he grows up to beat and abuse others. When a human is beaten and abused as a child, he grows up knowing how and why it is wrong - and he/she vows to discontinue the cycle.

    Because, my jewish friend - you are me, and I am you - we are the same - just highly evolved apes, looking for understanding, compassion and communication.

  • http://profiles.google.com/o.cornu Olivier Cornu

    Far from it: there are still a few things that deserve taking sides. Like justice, truth, etc.
    All little things that happen to have a mere connection to *reality*.

    What you're saying here is: "i'm blinded by religion" and "people who can see should not look"...

  • http://profiles.google.com/o.cornu Olivier Cornu

    Why would a jew hate himself in the first place?

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    Oh now THIS is credible....not

  • badstar4

    I think this will go on forever until people can realize that no one truely owns anything. The earth and it's resources belong to all who live on it, not one group or type of people. Unfortunately this will go on until the world realizes this. Who knows when that will be, 200 yrs from now? 4oo yrs from now? who knows.

  • israeli1

    @psinet
    i follow your comments here and i could swear that no one knows less about Jews, Zionism and Palestinians than you.
    first- Zionism is everything but religious, and the first Zionists where the ones to abandon religion and even Jewish culture and holidays. above that, some religious Jews consider themselves anti-Zionist or at least non-Zionist (not that i'm saying that Zionism is a bad thing). so to quote religious sources and try to prove Zionism's true nature by those quotes shows how little you know about it. it also shows you just go with the flow of anti-Zionism because whenever i saw one there where these antisemitic quotes of religious sources (i'm not saying you are antisemitic, but these exact sources where used by the antisemitic people of 18-20 century Europe).
    second- why do you think that most Palestinians want peace and most Israelis don't? i wonder what your sources are... did you do a survey?
    did you see a survey with the question:"do you want peace?" with more than 50% of Israelis saying no?
    your approach is childish. both sides have majority for peace, the question is about the terms in which they can accept peace, and both sides have their terms and this is why we're stuck.
    i wonder what makes you guys so enthusiastic about the israeli-Palestinian conflict in particular. do you care so much about other conflicts?
    there are millions of refugees in various conflicts in Africa, central Asia, and few more places that you never heard of, but the Israeli-Palestinian conflict keeps you awake at night. why? it's just another fight for land and control that doesn't concern you.. i don't understand why are you ignorantly rushing into conclusions.

  • http://profiles.google.com/o.cornu Olivier Cornu

    "i could swear that no one knows less about Jews, Zionism and Palestinians than you"

    Really? No one?
    With such extremism in your first sentence, it is no surprise that what follows is either nonsense or out of topic. If you really have to think with a hammer, please talk to your nails and spare us your "philosophy".
    Do you realize you're actually hurting the cause you're clumsily trying to defend?

  • http://profiles.google.com/o.cornu Olivier Cornu

    Is that supposed to be your answer to Ronen's documentary?
    I'll set aside the fact that there obviously is a lot of money behind this ad to get even more money, whereas Ronen worked on a very low budget for the sake of truth.
    One does not even need to know Jews, Zionists, Palestinians or even history to tell which one is closer to an adequate description of the situation. A working brain is more than enough.

  • Eniki520

    every definition of zionism i have ever heard includes the words jewish homeland or jews so when you say "Zionism is everything but religious" your mistaken. you cant have zionism without judaism/religion.

  • Nick_Sporek

    I'd hope that people have the brains to look up some credible history of Zionism and why it happened.

    You should know who Theodor Herzl is and you should know that Zionism has almost nothing to do with religion. In fact many religious Jews frowned on Zionists some groups still do today because they believe according to biblical prophesy that the Messiah will only come when the Jews are in exile.

    Zionism was started because of Jewish persecution, therefore Israel is a type of refugee camp for Jews (even today). The Holocaust wasn't the main reason for Zionism but only the icing on the cake for many European Jews. As for the Jews that came to Israel from Persia and Arab countries, the Jewish people were treated like 3rd or 4th class citizens with little rights.

    Yasser Arafat was born Egyptian and killed more "palestinians" than anyone. At the time of his death he was the worlds 8th richest leader and his wife got all the money to herself. Last I heard she lives in France and the palestinian people saw none of the international aid they got but still love the guy anyway. The money situation isn't any different today with the PLO or Hamas.

    Both the PLO and especially Hamas I might add; are pro-apartheid, pro-genocide, anti-freedom, anti-gay rights, anti-Christian, anti- any type of religion with exception of their version of Islam, anti-liberal values, anti-education, and anti-peace.

    I'm not asking you to choose side or like Jews or Israel, we don't want or need your support. But for goodness sake, please DON'T support the creation of a terrorist state called palestine. At least not until they stop their baseless hatred taught to them by Hitler who was a good buddy of the grand mufti of palestine.

  • Nick_Sporek

    I'm not on the pay roll, I do it for free and I'm glad it bugs you when Jews stick up for themselves. You and the world can find a new "whipping boy".

  • SpringWind

    omg, i never knew this...thank you for doing this documentary.

  • bruin12

    Just finished watching. It starts slow but overall an excellent documentary. To Nick and other critics, you may see this as a one sided documentary, and you may be right that it is such. But this documentary provides a voice that is rarely heard in the west, and I'd encourage those who are unfamiliar with the topic to watch and decide for themselves. My father was a refugee, and his entire family was forced from their homes, some killed by Jewish terrorists, or resistance fighters from a pro-Zionist narrative... Look up the Stern Gang, the ones responsible. Palestine has been turned into an overcrowded penitentiary, where the IDF soldiers are the wardens, as Pappe points out. Homes have been destroyed, land has been stolen, property confiscated with no compensation paid, and thousands upon thousands of Palestinians are forced to live in Bantustans separated by checkpoints. Israeli settlers, who live their illegally under international law have their own roads, bridges, etc. which separate arab communities and to which Arabs have no access to use. Put yourself in their shoes, would you want to live like this? I sure as hell wouldn't, and although I do NOT condone any acts of violence, I can understand how one could potentially resort to such as a life with no purpose is a life not worth living. Thank goodness for Jewish voices such as Ilan Pappe, Phylis Bennis, Noam Chomsky and countless others who oppose the ruthless occupation that continues today. These people do not have a cause other than pro-justice. Good documentary, I'd also recommend occupation 101. Thanks!!

  • Clix (????)

    They are not very good at it. They come across as illogical and arrogant brutes, confirming the very problem of Zionism. Let 'em shoot themselves in the foot.

    Notice how their attitude is, 'we don't care what you think as we're going to do what we want anyway', but the Zionists around the world spend so much effort in dictating and censoring what and how we think of them? The good thing is, the whole movement is going schizophrenic. The sooner it dies out the better of the world will be.

  • Clix (????)

    You have come a long way in less than 2 days; 'from this documentary full of lies based on a few minutes of watching it' to 'these are equally bad people, so pick a side'. It is good to know it is mostly ignoramus people who continue to blindly support the Zionist agenda and quickly find out that they have no legs to stand on when faced with the facts.

    I give you credit for being honest enough to change your position. Now, go out there and learn more.

  • israeli1

    the Jewish people is not the same thing as Jewish religion. for instance, a lot of secular Jews or converted Jews died in the Holocaust for being Jewish by blood, so that's more likely to be the definition of Jewish as far as Zionism goes than believing in the Jewish god. it's having a place for the ones that are threatened on other countries for being Jewish by whatever the attackers consider to be Jewish.
    moreover since it's first day and until today the state of Israel has a solid majority of non-religious Jews, so that's what i meant.
    you and your friends here are trying to make it sound like a religious battle, which, at least from our side, it is not.

  • israeli1

    the thing is, that you and the others here are not aware of how extreme and racist your comments are. once you will consider the lives and emotions of people that really suffer from this conflict like the ones that lost a relative or a friend from a missile or a suicide bomber blowing a bus, AS WELL as considering the Palestinian suffering, only than will i be able to address you with a certain amount of respect. until than you don't have that respect from me.
    accept that, do you actually think that the person you are defending so eagerly has ever been to Israel or the Palestinian territories? do you think he knows anything but the things he read online from Palestinian websites and a few splits of information from the media?

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    ROFL it seems you may be SERIOUSLY losing the PR war buddy. And guess what? The backlash HASN"T EVEN STARTED ROFL

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    Noone cares - I dont even have to post here everyone hates zionists. Jews - cool. Zionists - evil.

    AND EVERYONE KNOWS MWUHAHAHAHA

    PR fail

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    Glad to see so many people waking up to this 6 decade long horror story.

    Welcome to the real world zionists - where you are a very, very, very small fish in a VERY big pond.

  • robb077

    I'm not Jewish but the Arabs have lots of land and the Jewish people should have their own. The Arabs seem bent to control it all. I am not even sure about the real history of Palestine people over the centuries.
    Robb

  • israeli1

    it is a PR success for the Palestinians, it doesn't mean that everyone hates Zionism though, only ignorant west hating people as yourself (let me guess- you think there shouldn't have been a war in Iraq and that everyone should just let Iran go on with it's business).
    many scholars, journalists and just ordinary people who has done some research about it don't think there's anything wrong with Zionism, plus 6 of the 7.5 million Israelis (and deep in their heart the other 1.5).
    so think what you want, it's a good thing that policymakers have much more knowledge than you.
    by the way when you say Zionist evil you target about 95% of the Jewish population, the 5% remaining are either orthodox weirdos or Jews who hate the Jewish faith and culture to their bone. so it's pretty safe to say you hate Jews for what they believe in, and what is a part of the Jewish faith. so by definition you don't think: Jews-cool.
    by the way- we, Israelis/Jews don't need you or your friends approval or love, it's ok if you hate us. we're doing good and feel good about what we do.

  • http://www.youtube.com/MadXMax187 Mad

    I also heard good news for us freedom loving people that Israel has very low sperm count problem directly tied into their use of Depleted Uranium ammunition (which is a war crime to use it anyways) no need for eugenicists these days when the fools will kill themselves with GMO foods, fluoridated water, depleted uranium ammunition and rapidly declining mental health. The Israelis actually believe "god" will save them, but sadly (for them) they will self destruct just the American empire is going down the toilet, the rest of their puppet clones will fall shortly after. Lets just hope they don't drag the rest of the world down with them & stay skeptical of all news reports surrounding Palestinian conflict. They claim Palestinian "Islamist" group killed an Italian activist, even though there was a site online called "stop theism" that had pictures of him saying the IDF wanted him dead along with several other foreign activists. They must think people are stupid (most are but a lot are waking up to the lies & corruption) its a suicide system the west is just roasting on a slow cooker.

  • http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

    Lol you feel good about dehumanising humans.

    You dont think it is strange that a small group of impoverished, imprisoned people have greater success at "pr" than a rich nation?

    I will tell you why - they have facts and truth on their side - therefore they dont require a huge pr effort like zionists.

    If you are a Jew and believe in Zionism - sure - I hate you. You are a dangerous anti-human warmongerer.

    But to say 95% of Jews are Zionist is completely ignorant.

    Which of course, sums you up quite well.

    So hows YAHWEH? My Flying Spaghetti Monster god says he doesn't exist.

  • Taharqa_Conqueror_of_KMT

    " ZIONISM's main defense is not money, is not military mines, but a wall of propaganda lies ...because the truth of history does make ZIONISM vulnerable, and that means that ZIONISM can be successfully challenged, checked and defeated."

    To the speaker @ 1:13:08 all I can say is well said indeed.
    Only the truth and nothing but the truth shall prevail and free us all from hatred, racism, etc!!! And the notion of spreading the truth applies not only to this conflict but to most global issues whether it's to politics, economics, past conflicts or indigenous historical achievements.

  • Clix (????)

    If you're a European, and you are secular and/or atheist, the more reason for you to get the hell out of Israel. The only claim European so called Jews have to Israel is through the Judaism, through conversion to the religion. European Jews have not a drop of semitic blood, but have monopolized the notion of antisemitism.

    So, you talk about how secular most Jews are. Fine and dandy, but if that 'Jew' happens to be European, he has abdicated all his claim to being a Jew, and time to buy a one way ticket to Eastern Europe.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jheman1 Jan Heman

    Where in this documentary is the fact that the Germans sometime during WWll, got together with the leaders of Persia and decided to rename Persia, Iran, which means "the land of the Aryans" as in the Aryan race. And how does that fit in with the persecution of the Jews during WWll? Just a question I need cleared up, whether it has anything to do with Israel or not.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jheman1 Jan Heman

    Has anyone heard that the Germans (Hitler) sometime during WWll, got together with the leaders of Persia and decided to rename Persia to Iran, which means "the land of the Aryans" as in the Aryan race. And how does that fit in with the persecution of the Jews during WWll? Just a question I need cleared up, whether it has anything to do with this documentary or not.

  • RileyRampant

    it is fairly clear that the larger world does not have a sound historical view of israel. i certainly didn't as long as i depended upon the msm for news and views, and had not yet troubled myself to learn a bit of the history in the region.

    many don't know, for example, that israel participated with britain & france as the leading edge of a sneak-attack on egypt in the fifties, during the suez crisis. sort of belies the poor beseiged nation surrounded by menacing foes image, eh?
    it shows, rather, israel closer to its true status as favored client state of western interests, functioning as agent provocateur. and, further, raises the legitimacy of the arabs futile attempts to reign them in.

    this documentary helps. its also helpful that it was made by a child of israel who participated, as part of his national service, in suppressing arabs in the occupied territories.

    the experience, apparently, let him to question the legitimacy of israel's current and past policies, going back to the ethnic cleansing within israel proper which occurred in the late forties.

    i commend him for his courage, vision, and forthright study of israel in the world today, and how it got there.

    it should be added, to this history focused on the actors within what is now israel and the occupied territories, which they are in the process of usurping: the u.s. helped, slowly at first, and now openly and slavishly. my (and many of your) tax dollars at work, in service of apartheid.

    the payoff for support of israel i fail to see. but since many foreign policy interests followed by the u.s. are not in the national interest, but in the interest of a favored few, this isn't be too surprising.

    should i vote democrat or republican? (that's a joke)

  • His Forever

    When all is said and done, Israel (Zion) will still be standing. She is eternal, just as God has promised she would be.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_K26KAQ3NEXXOZSHUMXI6HJISYU Osama

    well, that's what happened. They got Israel, but at what cost? Arabs and Israeli's died and continue to die for this. And that's not even it, new generation of Arabs are born in a prison. It's just a big lie it has to stop and one day the truth will prevail

  • Guest

    Oh I see, your invisible gods playing favourites again! Hmmm?

  • WTC7

    I'd like to join in praising the author of this documentary for his courage to raise voice against the twisted interpretation of the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It should not be forgotten that it was the Jews who were the trespassers here (except for a very tiny native Jewish community despised by the new, mainly European, immigrants for their life style similar to that of the Arabs).

    In that view, the belief of the Zionists that their claim on the land of Palestine, which was not their home for some 2500 years, was stronger than the claim of the Arabs who lived there was outrageous. The fact that they were better organized than the Arabs of Palestine, better motivated and had secured the support of a great power (Britain) for their cause, and hence arrived to the point where they stand now, does not make their trespassing any more valid.

    The Arabs perhaps made a mistake for not accepting the UN partitioning plan in 1947, but on second inspection of that thought, it is probably understandable - why would I give half of my house to someone who just moved in yesterday and out of the blue lays claim to it today.

    The Palestinian Arabs' opposition to establishment of the Zionist rule in their country was not always militant. It became such only after the 1919 Peace Conference and San Remo Conference a year later, when it became clear that the big powers, primarily Britain, simply disregarded the Arab calls for independence of a united region of today's Syria, Lebanon and Palestine and their rejection of a creation of a Jewish state in their country. They demanded that the Jewish immigration stops. It was really not their fault that the Jews have been mistreated, expelled and murdered all over Europe, but they eventually paid for others' vices by being expelled from their own country - by the former victims. What an irony...

  • mick_21

    didnt judaism started with them being slaves and badly treated by the egyptian and moses came to save them... well at the moment the same thing that happened to them there are doing it to the paletinians.. doesnt the jews believe a mesia is coming.. well i believe if he is coming, his coming for the palestinian people the same way moses came to rescue the jews.. because at the momment the palestinian people needs rescuing..

  • mick_21

    we live at a tiime where most people are blind and any one will believe anything. we dont use our comon sense... write now america government is no longer american people zionist controul america.. america died with j.f kennedy he was the last american president.. they are also the ones who runs all the big banks... we live in a society where money and banks controul the hole society.. stop being stupid guyz open your eyes and dont believe evrything the media tells you..

  • who_me_yeah_you

    The payoff for support of israelis is a nation of peoples who look and sound like the arabs superficially. They understand the culture and the region intimately and are not questionable in their alliance to us policy. They have got to dominate US politics because they dominate the execution of middle east or more blatantly Oil policy. It has allowed them to corner then command US Media and high finance. Israel bears the burden of a large part of US intelligence gathering in the region and makes the most of it.

  • who_me_yeah_you

    The depth of your intellectual appraisal astounds me. Robb for president of the new world government! Any thoughts on world hunger?

  • http://profiles.google.com/sharique22 MOHAMMED SHARIQUE

    Mr. robb077, I don't know where r u from and which religious background you have. You said it so easily " The Jewish people deserve a home country" but why Palestine only, why not your country and your home, I have a very good idea for you how about inviting these "civilized people!!!" to your home let them make their jewish settlement there and kill your people.
    Do you think it is fair to kill & persecute innocent children, women, youth and elderly and destroy their "civilized settlements" Just because you want "their Nation" to live and your forefathers lived there THOUSANDS of years ago!!!!!!!!!!!
    Which Civilized people you are talking about????????

  • robb077

    I am in the USA and not raised Jewish. However, I know the Jewish people have lived in the area of Isreal for over 2000 years. Most of the Palestinian people are from Syria. The Jewish people have mainly acted in self defense only. Why don't the Arabs want them to have a small country? They have alot of land already. The Jewish people contribute to the world.

  • McGarvey

    The Arab world is not a country. You might as well suggest Europeans give up France as they have enough land already - what do you think the French people would think about that?
    Also, you make the common mistake of equating Judaism with Zionism. Judaism is a religion - Zionism is a political movement. NOT ALL Jews support Zionism and the state of Israel.
    Why don't you return everything West of the Rockies to the native American people? They've lived there for thousands of years and your people mostly came from Europe(a couple of hundred years ago).
    You should probably become more informed about the situation in Palestine before you give us more your "common sense". I really don't mean that in an attacking way, but you have shown yourself to be lacking in any real knowledge about the region. To say "The Jewish people(sic - you mean the state of Israel) have mainly acted in self defense only" in particular shows a stunning lack of knowledge - maybe you should look into the vast number of UN resolutions which have condemned Israel's aggression throughout it's history.
    "The Jewish people contribute to the world." I would agree with you - as do all people of the world. However, reading between the lines, I believe you are implying that people from Arab countries do not. You are entitled to your racist views.

  • robb077

    I am not racist toward Arabs, only that the Jews have much history in Israel and need not be destroyed. I don't fully understand all the issues but only hoping peace can be found.

  • mick_21

    thats because the american government is a zionist government...

  • WTC7

    "...I know the Jewish people have lived in the area of Isreal for over 2000 years. Most of the Palestinian people are from Syria. The Jewish people have mainly acted in self defense only. Why don't the Arabs want them to have a small country? They have alot of land already."

    @ robb077

    Mark Tessler in his 'A History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict' (highly recommended reading) cites sources which estimate that in the 1880 in Palestine there were less than 590'000 inhabitants of whom approx. 96% were Arabs (including Christian Arabs). Now, although the figures are not precise, they are an indication of the population ratio between the Arab and non-Arab population at that time. So, yes, Jewish people lived in Palestine for over 2'000 years, but so did the Arabs - and the latter in overwhelmingly greater numbers as a matter of fact.
    So, I don't see the added value of that statement of yours to the discussion.

    I am sure that you said that "most of the Palestinian people are from Syria" knowing that the Palestine was a part of Greater Syria or Ottoman Syria, whose territory was changing over time but overall included modern Syria, Lebanon, Israel, the West Bank, Gaza Strip, Jordan, (parts of) Turkey, and Egypt and Iraq (and Palestine was part of it at all times).
    I tend to think sometimes that semi-knowledge is worse than absolute ignorance.

    I don't doubt that Jewish people have often acted in self-defense, but so did the Arabs.

    The Arabs were not against Jewish immigration as such, at least not at the beginning (in the 19th century and in the 1st decade of the 20th). Even in the eve and during the WWI some prominent Arab functionaries of the Ottoman Empire and a number of local Arab Palestinian notables were in favor of Jewish immigration, because they believed that the newcomers would bring economic prosperity to the region.

    But they never consented to be ruled by the Jews. They couldn't have made it much clearer. As the Zionist plans for creation of the Jewish state in Palestine progressed with the help of their British guardians, and that regardless, and in spite, of the Arab opposition, the Arabs revolted and the targets were, unfortunately but inevitably, not the Zionist ideologues but the Jewish settlers in Palestine who were on the spot.

    As for the last part of your question, "why don't the Arabs want them to have a small country? They have alot of land already", I think that McGarvey has already given you an excellent answer.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Farking-Spamhell/608791907 Farking Spamhell

    Judaism is a religion not a race.

    The original "Jews" of the Bible are the modern day "Arabs" who mostly converted to Islam.

    Its very simple. Forget all the stories just see how populations merge and spread.

  • Abjective

    The problems that we are seeing on our lcd screens today is a result of Britain & America walking hand in hand. Zionisn only took in to affect when Britain invaded Palestine and other Arab countries in 1917 also signing a UN treaty of a newly created state or country for the persecuted Jews. This was the beginning of the mass migration to palastine, even though jews and Christians & Muslims have lived there side by side for centuries. It was the fanatical jews who wanted a pro jewish country in a majority muslim populated country.

    The ironic side or the flip side of it is that some those jews that survived the holocaust and persecution out of Europe would act that these menacing acts of barbaric wild animalistic behavour towards the Muslims. And the newly created state of Israel who claims to be democratic is really just a one party state most (jews) working towords one common goal. The Zion.

    It really is a one sided conflict. Tv screens make it look like muslims are fighting Jewish Israelies, but behind the scenes The British and American governments are actually protecting and supporting the Israeli movement, With America supplying the military hardware and software for that matter, Britain supplying their political upperhand. Israel is destined to win with that kind of support. The now poor, persecuted, oppressed, tortured, incarcerated & hungary are the muslims with very limited supplies of food, medicine, clothes, money, jobs, the zionist jews will not allow people to survive.

    I am totally against the killings of children, the most innocent and precious ones. Its most disturbing when i see that s*** on TV.The Israelies will claim that terrorists are hiding behind civillians or they say innocents caught in the cross-fire is just a load of B*'#$^"t. Cant believe the international community are just letting this happen. The actual terrorist are the zionist jews. When the mainstream wake up they will realize that they're to late.

    It was good to see a documentary made entirely by a ex Israeli soldier who has shed some light on what really is going on with this everlasting conflict. Now thats what i call an unbiased documentary.

  • RileyRampant

    supporting israel so one-sidedly in 1973 resulted in a huge spike in oil prices. supporting them so one-sidedly ever since has side-tracked development in the arab world, and particularly a sane path of development in palestine.

    it has engenered a mindless bellicosity and fanaticism within the state of israel as well.

    all this instability, apart from the death and destruction, does nothing beneficial for oil pricing, in fact quite the opposite.

    yes, israel can do some dirty work and make a mockery of u.s. ideals for democracy, equal rights & fair play.

    put it all in the jar, it looks like a pot of poo.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Wade-Bolton/725270345 Wade Bolton

    so,, lets give them Texas

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Wade-Bolton/725270345 Wade Bolton

    yeah,, we can give them Texas and they can come bulldoze down their houses and send the texans to camps,, should be no big deal, right????????????

  • robb077

    Sorry, the Mexicans already are taking Texas

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Eamonn-Riley/613478901 Eamonn Riley

    You are correct. DNA results show that the Israelis and Palestinians are closely related.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Eamonn-Riley/613478901 Eamonn Riley

    The '67 borders give Israel plenty of land. It is only the Zioinists and the settlers who want to take more land. The Palestinians deserve a homeland too. They have suffered a great deal, and they have said that they will accept only 22 per cent of historic Mandate Palestine. It is common sense that they should be given their own land.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Eamonn-Riley/613478901 Eamonn Riley

    If someone wants to show they are not racist against Palestinians, then they could start by calling them Palestinians, not Arabs. Arabs is a supremacist term for Palestinians used by extreme Zionists, and those who want to take all of the West Bank and Gaza.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Eamonn-Riley/613478901 Eamonn Riley

    Of course Israel will exist for ever, she has nuclear weapons. Why can she not live in peace alongside an independent Palestinian state? The Palestine Papers show that the Palestinians will give Israel everything she needs for peace and security.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Eamonn-Riley/613478901 Eamonn Riley

    This is not true. It has nothing to do with the Holocaust. The Palestinians were not responsible for what the Nazis did.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Eamonn-Riley/613478901 Eamonn Riley

    The Palestinians have no land. That is the problem.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Eamonn-Riley/613478901 Eamonn Riley

    Are you a real person, or an automatic IDF spambot?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Johannes-Jäger/530628871 Johannes Jäger

    Great film. Thank you Berek. May your film show some what is at stake.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Farking-Spamhell/608791907 Farking Spamhell

    DNA can probably also show that a Chinaman and the Palestinians are closely related.

    The Chinaman may have been part of a descendant X generation ago. Does not mean they are wholly part of a group at a particular era.

    Also one Chinaman being closely related to Palestinians doesnt mean all Chinamen are also related.

    Modern day "Israelis" / "Jews" are from all over the world genetically. They belong to many races. Just because an "Arab Jews" living in Israel closely matches a Palestinian doesnt mean all "Israelis" are the same.

  • bulletbees

    So many Misconceptions...So little will to learn...Either way good movie

  • Guest

    It's funny.. I came to this site looking for the documentary "Inside Job" and unfortunately stumbled upon this so called docu which drew me in by it's daunting number of comments.

    I have to say, after watching the film I started reading the comments with some feelings of anxiety and discomfort as i knew the criticism about Israel and Zionism will be abundant and bountiful. it's never comfortable to face criticism, especially if it's true, but even when it's half or quarter of the truth. I cant say I read all the comments, approximately 70% of them, but when I finished, all those troubling feelings went away and I became even a little bit happy.

    I felt this way because it's comforting to know that those who oppose so greatly to the notion of a Jewish state are forced to reduce themselves to such rudimentary way of thinking. in all my readings here I didn't found anyone who has an intelligent, facts oriented or balanced argument against Israel/Zionism (not to say there are none. there are plenty legitimate arguments and criticism, just not on this site). most of the comments here are a delightful mix of hate (lots of hate here), ignorance, half truths, illogical reasoning and its all looked through a lovely prism of self unawareness.

    There is a guy (or girl) here, @Psinet is his name, which declares himself the protector of this threads from the bullies and trolls who sow their propaganda here (of course, they are basically everyone who don't agree with him). aside from the "lord of the rings" good VS evil rhetoric, which clearly indicates the shallowness of his reasoning, he writes in another comment " Jews = good, Zionism = Evil". well... it seems the slayer of trolls needs to take a refreshing course about what trolls are. actually, most of the criticizers here share this sentiment of Zionism being evil by nature. there are approximately 6 million Jews, in Israel and outside of it, who consider themselves Zionists at their core and they have some hundreds, if not thousands, different opinions, beliefs and ideals about what Zionism is, how it should conduct itself, what goals are fundamental and what can be compromised, not to mention all the complex and different political (left, right, center), ideological (liberal, conservative, social etc...) and moral orientations of those millions of Zionists. ya, sure, of course Zionism is inherently evil. there is proof! people are getting killed in Gaza, and they even have a very unfortunate lives too! and there is racism in Israel also. that is all the recipe you need for a Nazi society, right? no need to even bother with context. no need to take into account the way the other players in this region have conducted themselves over the last 10 decades.

    By the way, that @Psinet fellow proud himself of being familiarized with Israelis, all of them are ex military of course ( like it has any real implications), and warns us Israelis that he knows how we lie ( like Israelis lie any differently then ordinary human beings), how we know we lie, how we talk to each other and all our inner most secrets. basically, he knows us Israelis better then we know our selfs because i didn't know I lie when I explain my point of view, nor most of friends and family know they lie about their beliefs. @Psinet knows better. so it was very surprising for me to see that @Psinet is misinformed about basic facts and beliefs he attributed to us, evil Israeli Jews, like... oh.. I don"t know.. maybe that while he quotes the Jewish bible to prove how evil Zionism is he is totally oblivious to the basic fact that Zionism was, and still is, a very secular ideology ( only if you believe that an ideology is defined by the majority of those who hold it, of course). in fact, until recent decades, Zionism was somewhat anti - religious. but I guess it doesn't really matter. Jews are Jews are Jews. you only need to open a bible to know the nature of Jews. oops, sorry, not Jews... Israeli Jews. oh, and also those not Israeli jews who support Zionism. and of course those not Israeli not Jews who support Zionism who are brainwashed by the mighty Israeli Jewish propaganda machine, the hasbara.

    It saddens me to say but most of he criticizers here are like @Psinet and every pseudo liberals, pseudo intellectuals and pseudo informed people here are patting each other on their backs at every successful hateful comment they produce. a mass orgy of trolls bathing in a pool full of hate, disrespect and lies. lucky you guys have Israel. if Israel was gone you would have to settle with spewing hate and contempt on much less racist and/or humane rights violators like Syria, United States, Russia, Iran, France, Argentina, China, Egypt and the list is long. but don't worry. Israel will stick around for a while, if its not much trouble for you.

    With all that said, I'm an optimistic kind of guy, so I will be glad to have a constructive dialog with anyone who wants it. trolls like @Psinet will be answered/ignored at my discretion.

  • Roy

    It's funny.. I came to this site looking for the documentary "Inside Job" and unfortunately stumbled upon this so called docu which drew me in by it's daunting number of comments.

    I have to say, after watching the film I started reading the comments with some feelings of anxiety and discomfort as i knew the criticism about Israel and Zionism will be abundant and bountiful. it's never comfortable to face criticism, especially if it's true, but even when it's half or quarter of the truth. I cant say I read all the comments, approximately 70% of them, but when I finished, all those troubling feelings went away and I became even a little bit happy.

    I felt this way because it's comforting to know that those who oppose so greatly to the notion of a Jewish state are forced to reduce themselves to such rudimentary way of thinking. in all my readings here I didn't find anyone who has an intelligent, facts oriented or balanced argument against Israel/Zionism (not to say there are none. there are plenty legitimate arguments and criticism, just not on this site). most of the comments here are a delightful mix of hate (lots of hate here), ignorance, half truths, illogical reasoning and its all looked through a lovely prism of self unawareness.

    There is a guy (or girl) here, @Psinet is his name, which declares himself the protector of this threads from the bullies and trolls who sow their propaganda here (of course, they are basically everyone who don't agree with him). aside from the "lord of the rings" good VS evil rhetoric, which clearly indicates the shallowness of his reasoning, he writes in another comment " Jews = good, Zionism = Evil". well... it seems the slayer of trolls needs to take a refreshing course about what trolls are. actually, most of the criticizers here share this sentiment of Zionism being evil by nature. there are approximately 6 million Jews, in Israel and outside of it, who consider themselves Zionists at their core and they have some hundreds, if not thousands, different opinions, beliefs and ideals about what Zionism is, how it should conduct itself, what goals are fundamental and what can be compromised, not to mention all the complex and different political (left, right, center), ideological (liberal, conservative, social etc...) and moral orientations of those millions of Zionists. ya, sure, of course Zionism is inherently evil. there is proof! people are getting killed in Gaza, and they even have a very unfortunate lives too! and there is racism in Israel also. that is all the recipe you need for a Nazi society, right? no need to even bother with context. no need to take into account the way the other players in this region have conducted themselves over the last 10 decades.

    By the way, that @Psinet fellow proud himself of being familiarized with Israelis, all of them are ex military of course ( like it has any real implications), and warns us Israelis that he knows how we lie ( like Israelis lie any differently then ordinary human beings), how we know we lie, how we talk to each other and all our inner most secrets. basically, he knows us Israelis better then we know our selfs because i didn't know I lie when I explain my point of view, nor most of friends and family know they lie about their beliefs. @Psinet knows better. so it was very surprising for me to see that @Psinet is misinformed about basic facts and beliefs he attributed to us, evil Israeli Jews, like... oh.. I don"t know.. maybe that while he quotes the Jewish bible to prove how evil Zionism is he is totally oblivious to the basic fact that Zionism was, and still is, a very secular ideology ( only if you believe that an ideology is defined by the majority of those who hold it, of course). in fact, until recent decades, Zionism was somewhat anti - religious. but I guess it doesn't really matter. Jews are Jews are Jews. you only need to open a bible to know the nature of Jews. oops, sorry, not Jews... Israeli Jews. oh, and also those not Israeli jews who support Zionism. and of course those not Israeli not Jews who support Zionism who are brainwashed by the mighty Israeli Jewish propaganda machine, the hasbara.

    It saddens me to say but most of he criticizers here are like @Psinet and every pseudo liberals, pseudo intellectuals and pseudo informed people here are patting each other on their backs at every successful hateful comment they produce. a mass orgy of trolls bathing in a pool full of hate, disrespect and lies. lucky you guys have Israel. if Israel was gone you would have to settle with spewing hate and contempt on much less racist and/or humane rights violators like Syria, United States, Russia, Iran, France, Argentina, China, Egypt and the list is long. but don't worry. Israel will stick around for a while, if its not much trouble for you.

    With all that said, I'm an optimistic kind of guy, so I will be glad to have a constructive dialog with anyone who wants it. trolls like @Psinet will be answered/ignored at my discretion.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Farking-Spamhell/608791907 Farking Spamhell

    Judaism is a religion not a race.

    The Palestinians/Arabs are the real historical biblical Jews. No exodus and no diaspora. They have always been there.

    Israel is based on a Political movement called Zionism. No Zionist is a Jew. Jews are not Zionists.

    The Zionists themselves are lost in their own lies. In their own socialist nationalist movement. Pretending that its based on Judaism.

    The key to peace is to find the real Jews!

  • Roy

    It's nice to know you are the authority about who is Jewish and who is not.
    what would the Jewish world do without you.

    Just an advice though, next time you are so eager to reveal your own ignorance in history, DNA, critical thinking and what not, please give us the fake facts your educated thesis is based on.

    BTW, the idea that the "Jewish People", as we know them today, were invented by Zionism was propagated mainly by a professor for general history (his speciality is western Europe) named Shlomo Sand and his book "The Invention of the Jewish People".
    Since then, his work on the subject and his book were discredited time after time, even by very prominent Zionism Criticizers. furthermore, DNA analysis in recent years have crushed his main thesis on the subject ( although I have to say that the notion that DNA has any implication to a group of millions of people who consider themselves as a group for more then at least 130 years, with shared history and fate, is fundamentally absurd)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Farking-Spamhell/608791907 Farking Spamhell

    Thanks for the book reference sounds very interesting.

    I am also interested on any ideas related to debunking the exodus.
    Any good books?
    Something that builds on Freud's "Moses and Monotheism"?

    by the way dont worry that you think its been discredited.

  • Roy

    My pleasure..

    It seems you go it all figured out, the last thing i'm going to do is worry..

    good luck

  • Clix (????)

    You write so much, yet you say nothing worthwhile. May be if you can write something substantive other than calling people 'unintelligent', 'hateful', etc. when they fail to agree with you, you can probably have a 'constructive' dialogue. I don't care how many Zionists live around the world who have differing opinions about various things. I care only about how the fascist Zionist occupiers in Palestine conduct themselves in the name of those millions around the world. That's what this documentary is about, not the sensibilities of Zionists around the world.

    Oh, if you want to insult other people's intelligence, at least learn to express yourself in somewhat of an intelligent manner using the English language. Your writing reads like one written by a 6 grader. But then again, I yet have to meet a coherent Zionist.

  • Roy

    It's interesting to see how often narrow minded individuals find it hard to resist diminishing other people by insulting the way they write.
    To the point, I didn't call anyone here unintelligent. It's likely you have problems with reading comprehension. I just said the discussion here was unintelligent. As you might know, intelligent people can produce unintelligent arguments all the time. Probably, so am I.

    The reason I did not write anything substantive was, and still is, the lack of anything substantive here to write about. If you encounter someone who writes about how NASA faked the moon landing, and he includes lots of "facts" and dramatic pictures, would you really make the effort to debunk him? I wouldn't.
    But, for the sake of it, here is something substantive:

    This documentary, and most of the comments following it, bears the obvious signs of misleading interpretations taken from out of context quotes and facts.
    For example, this documentary tries to establish the idea that Zionism wanted to push out the indigenous population in Palestine. It tries to do so by quoting some prominent Zionist figures.
    One quote is attributed to Theodor Herzl, who was quoted "We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border". Put out of context it seems Herzl wanted to drive the poor Palestinians away from Israel, maybe even by dark means? Spooky.
    the quote above is taken from Herzl's book "Altneuland" and the paragraph which contains it ( you know, this little pesky thing called - context) reads " When we occupy the land, we shall bring immediate benefits to the state that receives us. We must expropriate gently the private property on the estates assigned to us. We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our country. The property owners will come over to our side. Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discretely and circumspectly … It goes without saying that we shall respectfully tolerate persons of other faiths and protect their property, their honor, and their freedom with the harshest means of coercion. This is another area in which we shall set the entire world a wonderful example … Should there be many such immovable owners in individual areas [who would not sell their property to us], we shall simply leave them there and develop our commerce in the direction of other areas which belong to us"
    hardly the fascist, ethnic cleansing and racist ideas this documentary try to attribute Zionism. yes, he wrote about Jewish majority (this is the whole idea of a Jewish state) but in his book Herzl merely discussed plans to buy land thereby transferring it from Arab to Jewish owners by legal means of purchase under the Ottoman Land Law of 1858, not by expulsion, not by ethnic cleansing and not by any means of force.

    Here is another quote of Theodor Herzl: "It is founded on the ideas which are a common product of all civilized nations… It would be immoral if we would exclude anyone, whatever his origin, his descent, or his religion, from participating in our achievements. For we stand on the shoulders of other civilized peoples. … What we own we owe to the preparatory work of other peoples. Therefore, we have to repay our debt. There is only one way to do it, the highest tolerance. Our motto must therefore be, now and ever: ‘Man, you are my brother.’"
    Well…. Obviously this documentary paints a very distorted image of Herzl.

    Another quote is attributed to Leo Motzkin who suposidly said " Our thought is that the colonization of Palestine has to go in two directions: Jewish settlement in Eretz Israel and the resettlement of the Arabs of Eretz Israel in areas outside the country"
    The main source for this quote is Ilan Pappe's "The Ethnic Cleansing Of Palestine" which is notorious for his lack of intellectual integrity. Pappe's source is Nur Masalha's book "Expulsion of the Palestinians" which tries to establish that the Zionist movement had transfer and expulsion ideas right from the beginning.
    The problems with Masalha's book, and pappe's for that matter, are as follows:
    - They attribute the whole Zionist movement the ideas of a tiny revisionist faction who incorporated transfer into their agenda.
    - Contrary to Masalha's claim, the "population transfer" idea was not a Jewish, Zionist or Israeli idea. It was born in the 1920s, not the 1890s, and the term was first used to describe a 1920s Turkish-Greek population exchange. In Israel, the concept was first floated in the 1937 by Britain's Peel Commission, not Zionists.
    - Masalha claims the Zionists were behind the Peel Commission transfer proposal. But he doesn't prove this point. In fact, David Ben-Gurion was reluctant about Britain's transfer idea and he presented it only as a tool to persuade Zionists to accept a smaller Jewish state. But in doing so, Ben Gurion also warned that the Peel plan contained inherent dangers. In any case, the transfer idea failed when the Zionists accepted it reluctantly and the Arabs opposed the proposed partition.
    - Masalha forgets that early Zionist leaders expected Israel to obtain a Jewish majority from massive immigration. They believed (rightly, as we now know) that Western Palestine could accommodate millions of Jews and Arabs, up from 600,000 or so inhabitants in the 1920s, most of them fairly recent immigrants (both arab and Jewish).

    Moreover, Again at the beginning of this film, you see a professor explaining to the viewer how much Zionism didn't accommodate the idea of living together, side by side, with the indigenous population.
    As I wrote earlier, this idea was held by a small fraction of the Zionist movement. But beside that, this documentary fails to put into context the extreme rejectionist state of mind the Arab population held for any cooperation or compromise with the Jewish population, the pogroms held in Palestine by the Arab population, the Nazi affiliation of the Arab population and leaders and much more.

    I can go on and on through the documentary to show how distorted it really is but I try to minimize my dealings with fake history. I guess this documentary is so compelling for you guys because it paints a very simple black and white picture. You have the bad guy, Zionism, and you have the good guy, Palestinians, and that’s it. We all know what we should do with bad guys, right?
    Well… reality is not that simple and the notion that Zionism is an ethnic cleansing ideology which embraces ideas of transfer and expulsion is historically wrong.
    But.. if it makes your life easier, by all means, keep believing what you want. I would hate to take away your "comfort zone".
    So, @ Clix, do you have anything substantive to say or do you intend to stick with insulting my language skills?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Farking-Spamhell/608791907 Farking Spamhell

    The wall of text and quotes he uses is mostly pulled straight from sites.

    I doubt he has even read any of the books he purports to criticize or quote.

    But hey what do you expect. Not really interested in the truth only bashing. I bet he just got out of the IDF and misses it ;-)

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Farking-Spamhell/608791907 Farking Spamhell

    Do you even read any of the books you refer to or do you just summarize someone else's criticism of the book!

  • Roy

    I try to do both.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Farking-Spamhell/608791907 Farking Spamhell

    It would be interesting to see which books (heavily criticized by Zionist) you've read cover to cover?

  • Roy

    Actually, I read all the books I mentioned here.
    Do I have to take a test or do you want to move on to your next irrelevant question?

  • Clix (????)

    @Israeli3

    From the snake's own mouth:

    If I wish to substitute a new building for an old one, I must demolish before I construct.

    We should not take spear and lance and go out singly in pursuit of bears; we would organize a large and active hunting party, drive the animals together, and throw a gelignite bomb into their midst.

    You can pick and choose what Theodor Herzl has said in outlining his Zionist agenda, however in context and out of context, his dream he has now implored a multitude of immoral, inhumane and sadistically selfish followers to 'will it' has turned not just Palestine but the whole world into the living hell it has become. This man was an evil incarnate through and through, and you the modern day Zionists are the ones who are carrying his water.

  • WTC7

    It would perhaps be good to return to the question of whether it was ok to invade by immigration someone else's country, against their wishes, and then claim it, where you know the native inhabitants were opposing it from the very beginning and then think that you have stronger claim to the country than the natives who have been opposed to your presence but had no say as there was a power there which was making decisions and was (by the way) in favor of immigrants because of its own calculations.

    How much have the Zionists in the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th think about the Arabs in Palestine? Have they not been more concerned about forging a relationship with the Brits at that time?

    I suppose you will provide an answer, at your discretion of course.

  • Roy

    v:)
    I wish to thank you @Clix. What you just wrote is a shiny example of cherry picking and distortion of one's words.
    The first quote you wrote does not refer to the arab population. Actually, it does not refer to buildings altogether. This is the whole paragraph:

    If I wish to substitute a new building for an old one, I must demolish before I construct. I shall therefore keep to this natural sequence. In the first and general part 1 I shall explain my ideas, remove all prejudices, determine essential political and economic conditions, and develop the plan..

    This paragraph is located in the preface of the book "The Jewish State" and Herzl talks about how he constructed this book. When he is talking about building and demolishing he is talking about how to "build" the idea of a Jewish state in the minds of European Jews (an idea which was not popular at that time, 1896) by "demolishing" the old ideas first.
    If you have actually read what he is trying to say instead of looking for a sentence with negative connotation, you would understand that it doesn’t have anything to do with Palestine itself or its indigenous population.

    For your second quote, here is again the whole paragraph:

    If we wish to found a State today, we shall not do it in the way which would have been the only possible one a thousand years ago. It is foolish to revert to old stages of civilization, as many Zionists would like to do. Supposing, for example, we were obliged to clear a country of wild beasts, we should not set about the task in the fashion of Europeans of the fifth century. We should not take spear and lance and go out singly in pursuit of bears; we would organize a large and active hunting party, drive the animals together, and throw a gelignite bomb into their midst.

    If your attempt at discrediting Herzl wasn’t sad, it would have been funny.
    In this paragraph, and the next, he is talking about using technology to improve the building process of the future state (BTW, at that time, Palestine was not the only option, nor the preferred one). He does this to counter the ideas, within Zionism, of "returning to the origins", which were prevalent at that time. Many Zionists believed that they should embrace the old ways, which means, among other things, not using the latest developments in technology to do stuff.
    When he talks about clearing a country of wild beasts he is literally talking about wild beasts, just as in the next paragraph he literally talks about how to build a house more efficiently
    Again, if you bothered yourself with really reading the chapter, you could save yourself the embarrassment.

    By the way, this is what he actually said about the indigenous population:

    The Society of Jews will treat with the present masters of the land, putting itself under the protectorate of the European Powers, if they prove friendly to the plan. We could offer the present possessors of the land enormous advantages, assume part of the public debt, build new roads for traffic, which our presence in the country would render necessary, and do many other things. The creation of our State would be beneficial to adjacent countries, because the cultivation of a strip of land increases the value of its surrounding districts in innumerable ways.

    I really don’t know if the problem is your reading comprehension, or that you deliberately try to defame Herzl, but obliviously you need to check yourself and your reasoning.
    A good start is by really reading a book for once.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Farking-Spamhell/608791907 Farking Spamhell

    Good idea... some simple questions...

    In Shlomo's book;

    1/ What does he say are the reasons why the exodus and exile did not happen?

    2/ Which were the Jewish kingdoms before advent of Christianity and what happened to them?

    3/ What in his life does he describe that influenced him towards questioning his history?

  • Roy

    My discretion says these are very good questions that touch at some of the core issues of this conflict.

    Zionism did not invade someone else's country for 3 reasons:
    1. There was no country to invade to. Palestine was ruled by Britain and before that by the Ottomans. For the first decades of Zionism the only ideas about the fate of Palestine was as part of greater Jordan or greater Syria. The land itself was very low on population, some 300,000 souls, of which about 24,000 were Jews with their own settlements and centers.

    2. I strongly reject the use of the word invade. If a group of 100,000 people buys land in Canada and immigrates to that land with the permission of the legal Sovereign of Canada, does it mean that they invaded Canada, even if it makes all the Canadians angry? Until the war of 1948 no native Palestinian was "driven out" of Palestine and no villages were emptied of their inhabitants. Land was purchased by Jews with good money, many times for overpriced values and with the consent of the sellers, which were mainly Muslims. In fact, not all Muslim Palestinians objected the Jews. One shining example was the productive and friendly cooperation between the Jews and Muslims of the city of Haifa. The main goal of Zionism at that time was improving the quality of uninhabitable land by drying swamps and fertilizing barren land and in fact the Jewish community in Palestine established communities in many places that were empty of human beings for hundreds of years. Many of those communities are the most successful villages, kibbutzim and cities in Israel today.

    3. Moreover, for many Jews, of who immigrated to Palestine, the main reason for doing so was lack of choice. I know many of you don’t like to think about the holocaust and its precursors, but it happened and one should not ignore its consequences. My own grandfather and grandmother fled the ghettos of Eastern Europe just in the nick of time, not before all of their assets and property was seized by local authorities and their former lives there shattered. Where could they go? Anywhere in Europe was not an option for obvious reasons, certainly not any Arab or Muslim country and they couldn’t get a visa to go to the US. The only choice for them, and many other Jews was the Jewish community in Palestine.
    In fact, when the British periodically disallowed the entrance of Jewish immigrants to Palestine to appease the angry Muslim community you mentioned yourself, those Jews who couldn’t get into Palestine found their death in one way or another.

    You are entitled to object what Zionism tried to do, but in my opinion you should re-examine your conviction that Zionists acted as an invader to Palestine. You asked if early Zionists thought about the Arab population in Palestine. The answer is yes. There are many early Zionist writings which deal not only with Arab population in Palestine, but with any indigenous population in whichever place Jews might find themselves calling home.
    From their writings it's clear that most of the early Zionists thought the Jewish community could reach some kind of an agreement with the indigenous population. Most of the early Zionists obviously did not foresee the extreme rejectionist mentality and hostility of the Arab community in Palestine, and more importantly the neighboring Arab nations. Herzl, for example, wrote many times about treating the indigenous population equally and with respect and trying to make those, who wish to stay in the future Jewish country, part of the national endeavor.

    Lastly I want to respond to your notion that Zionism had an unfair advantage by being Britain's favored and that the Arab Palestinians didn’t had any say or influence about what's happening around them or their own fate.
    You probably could have guessed it but I disagree with this perspective, for the following reasons:

    1. Until the end of World War II the British were more concerned about appeasing the Arab population in Palestine then keeping their promises to the Jews. Many declarations by the British were just lip service for the Jews. Until the peel commission of 1936, following the big Arab revolt of 1936 – 1939, Britain ideas towards Palestine were constricted to Arab Sovereignty. So what changed? Commission after commission sent by Britain pointed out the hostile and violent actions of the Arab population towards the Jewish population. After the violent Arab riots of 1936 the peel commission concluded that a separate Jewish state had to be created. Sir John Martin, the secretary of the commission, documented in his official papers ( the original documents are available at the Churchill Archives Center) one of the commission's interview with the Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini, who, when asked if a future Arab country could accommodate the 400,000 Jews living in it already, he testified "no". When asked if the Jews would be removed in a painful way, he gave an ambivalent answer (something like leaving it for the future Arab government to decide).
    The Peel Commission is the place where the idea of 2 states was born, and it was no less the Arab Palestinians own conduct which led to this idea then the Zionists pressure over Britain.
    If you will search for the maps published by the peel commission, you will see that in the conclusions of the commission they gave the Arab state much more land then the Jewish state and much more land than in the 1947 partition plan. As we all know, the Arabs rejected that offer with no room to compromise.

    2. There is another reason why, after the holocaust, the Jewish community in Palestine had gained preference over the Arabs. The holocaust itself is an obvious reason, but also it was the highly developed society the Jewish population managed to accomplish during first half of the 20th century and the deteriorating society of the Arab population. The reason for this gap between the two societies was that while the Jewish community concentrated on developing their institutions, Agriculture, commerce and more, the Arabs concentrated on opposing the Jews. Those gaps won the Jews favor in western eyes.

    3. As you may know, the resistance of the Jewish community in Palestine towards the British mandate was fierce and strong. There wasn’t any redundant love between the Zionists and the British.

    4. The Arab immigration from Arab states to Palestine between the time of early Zionism and the foundation of Israel was as high as the Jewish immigration, if not more. Since 1882 to 1946 the Arab population grew in about 990,000 souls, while the Jewish community grew only 513,000 souls. This growth isn’t a natural growth for Jews and Arabs alike. It was mainly immigration. All the British commissions sent to Palestine over the years note the massive Arab legal and illegal immigration.

    5. In my opinion the best example of how the Arab Palestinians actions had destructive implications on their situation is the story of Jaffa port. The Jaffa port was the main sea port to Palestine back in those days, and the city Jaffa itself was one of richest, developed and cultured Arab settlement in Palestine of the time. The Jewish community wanted to build a port of their own in Tel-Aviv but the British rejected that idea for decades.
    In the big Arab riots of 1936 – 1939 the port of Jaffa was almost entirely inactive because of the Arab riots for a long time. This situation created major problems for the British rule in Palestine. Finally the British were forced to accept the Jews request to open their own port.
    This turn of events was dire for Jaffa, which became increasingly poor and neglected, but beneficial for Tel-Aviv which became the centre of culture and business for the Jews.
    These actions, among many others, of the Arab population in Palestine had direct consequences and impact over their own situation.

    To conclude this long and tiring post, both Jews and Arabs in Palestine did their share of mistakes and wrong conduct and while I agree that there should be some bias and sympathy towards the unfortunate side, which is today the Palestinians, it seems that the mentality held by the author of this documentary, most of the posts here and other people who share the same sentiment, is a mentality of judging Israel and Zionism in a vacuum. It's like Zionism is the only player in this game and only the actions of the Zionists have determined in the past and will determine in the future the outcome of every situation. There is no examination of the Arab conduct and actions, what real implication those actions had and how they influenced Zionism, the British and, at a later stage, Israel.

    This is not the way to relate to a group of people who have aspirations for self determination and governess. This is how you treat a spoiled child. If your child does something wrong and you, instead of lecturing him and telling him what he did was wrong, you blame everything else but the child, like some parents do, this child will grow up to be unaware of the consequences of his own actions. Similar thing happens with the Palestinians. They are pumped with the idea that ever since the beginning of the 20th century they are victims of outside forces, mainly Zionism, and don’t have any ability to influence their situation, just like the Jews in the holocaust or the blacks of South Africa. But these analogies are wrong on too many levels.
    The Arab Palestinians have chosen a certain path, time after time, and it had tremendous implications on their situation. Rejecting all the partition resolutions, any compromise in regards for the Jewish community, supporting the trans Arab war of 1948 and the violence inflicted on the Jewish population even much before the Jewish community had any fighting capability whatsoever. Even in modern times, in the first half of the 90s, the choice of the PLO to use terrorism as a way of leverage while at same time participating in the most serious peace talk ever made with Israel (Yitzhak Rabin government) had devastating consequences on the Palestinians own agenda and well being. I just want to note that the terrorism used in the period of those peace talks, between 1993 -1996, was the worst of its kind, in terms of quantity and quality, in Israel history.
    Any interpretation of the conflict, or any other situation for that matter, which takes into account only 50% of its ingredients is a problematic interpretation, to say the least, and in my opinion it doesn’t contribute to the efforts being made to resolve it. Actually, I believe it takes us further away from a peaceful resolution.

    Zionism wasn’t built on ideals of pushing out or controlling the native population. Contrary to what many of you think, early Zionists chose Palestine not because of a "religious calling" or similar reasons. They chose Palestine because of the fear that any other place will not attract enough Jews. They believed that the deep connection jews have, even secular ones, with Palestine will be used as a mutual base to all extremely different jews from all over the world, and they were right. Another reason Palestine was chosen is the fact it was fairly empty.
    Maybe, if early Zionists could foresee the extent of the Arabs disdain and uncompromising demeanor, they would have chosen other places to fulfill their aspirations. But in retrospect it's always easy to know what the optimal choice to pick was. In reality, we all have to make do with what we know and hope that what we don’t know won't kill us.

  • Roy

    Dear @Farking Spamhell
    I'll let someone else entertain your petty and pretentious Trivia questions. you hide behind what you think is witty and insightful comments which are intended to catch those who don't agree with you "with their pants down".
    You probably do this to mask your total lack of ability producing any argument of value or substance. in your 7 posts or so you could pick any issue I wrote about, but instead you chose to try to discredit me personally, a man you know absolutely nothing about, by questioning my integrity or saying I was just recently released from the IDF and I miss it.

    What real difference does it make if I read the book or not. Will the answer to that question make what's written in those books more true or false? Will it make the critics of those books any more or any less right? Will it make the claims I presented earlier more accurate or inaccurate?
    Your pathetic attempt at discrediting me seems even more pitiful because even if I hadn’t read the book, I would need only an above average google searching skills to answer your questions correctly.
    I hope for your sake you have yet to come to maturity and have many more years to grow up.

  • http://profiles.google.com/farspamspam far spam

    "even if I hadn’t read the book, I would need only an above average google searching skills to answer your questions correctly."

    Please demonstrate. It would be interesting to see the skills.

    Here are the questions again for your reference:

    In Shlomo's book;

    1/ What does he say are the reasons why the exodus and exile did not happen?

    2/ Which were the Jewish kingdoms before advent of Christianity and what happened to them?

    3/ What in his life does he describe that influenced him towards questioning his history?

  • Roy

    Oh... you probably misunderstood me...
    I'm done with you buddy.
    good luck with your brilliant questions.. you are just too sophisticated for me... I wouldn't want to embarrass myself trying to deal with that enormous brain of yours..

  • http://profiles.google.com/farspamspam far spam

    How convenient for you.

    We are not done with you buddy, we just got started!
    If its not here it will be some other place or time.

    As per quote;
    "The Zionists themselves are lost in their own lies"

  • Roy

    You are such a cute boy... it's heartwarming.

  • steamknife

    @Israeli3 it will be really nice to read your comments and what you have in mind revolving around this topic if you didn't start your arguments with sarcasms and insults. It will also save people like me who lack in knowledge about this issue a lot of time reading.

    The very least you can do is by going straight down to help audiences determining which parts of information is true or not. Majority of us are not from Israel so we cannot fully understand the situation.

    For those people who speak against Zionist is really not necessary because the documentary did a much better job.

    Anyway, thanks to everyone for their input.

  • Jarred01

    After watching just 10 minutes of this documentary, it is clear that the "author" has an inherrently anti-zionist agenda, and has already misinterpreted quotes, concepts and facts dating back to the early days of Zionism.
    While I appreciate the effort the "author" has gone to to produce such a film, I urge everyone who will spend the time watching it to read or watch other, more accurate sources (i.e. 'Israel a history' by Martin Gilbert). Further, I urge the "author" to reconsider his/her stance on the Zionist Story, which is not based around Racism and Elitism, but rather, upon the right to self-determination. Indeed, there has been serious mistreatment of the Arab people of the land, who would later become Palestinians, and nobody can deny that some suggested, and unfortunately some adopted policies, were racist. However, the Zionist movement as a whole was aware of the importance of upholding its obligation to all people of the land, and was founded upon the ideals of democracy!
    An accurate understanding of Zionism involves a deep understanding of Judaism, and the values it promotes. The Jewish people have a right to self-determination like all people. Further, the Jewish state must be based on universal, and Jewish values, such as the equal essence of all people, regardless of race, religion, sex or culture. In this sense, any idea that Zionism suggests anything other than a Jewish Democratic state, in which Jewish ideals of equality of all people, and unity of the Jewish people are entrenched, is one which is misguided.
    Do not fall into the trap of assuming Israel's actions are indicative of Zionist aspirations. I wish Israel would always act based on the values she was established for, but that, unfortuantely, is not the case. It does not, however, delegitimise Zionism, and it's genuinely peaceful message of the establishment of a free and democratic Jewish-state.
    A violation of this message is not representative of Zionism as an ideology!

  • WTC7

    Ok, I myself could buy everything you declared above, about equality of all people and that kind of stuff...... after at least half of the Palestinian refugees are allowed to return to their homes... Fair deal?

  • Joe_NYC

    "Jewish people have a right to self-determination "

    So do Palestinians.

  • Jarred01

    Not half, all the Palestinians should be granted the right to their own homes! Hopefully a Palestinian state will be established as soon as possible. In fact, like i said, by the same premise Zionism has its own legitimacy, Palestinian national strivings, too, have complete legitimacy!

    Something interesting for people to consider;
    Israel is facing the following options:
    - Jewish State + Land = No democracy, which is obviously an issue. Stands in opposition to Zionism, as Israel will cease to be a Democratic state.
    - Land + Democracy = Not a Jewish State, which is the Binational proposal. Stands in opposition to zionism, as Israel will cease to be a Jewish state.
    - Democracy + Jewish state = Giving up land, which is the two-state solution. The only way forward for Zionism, as the values will still be upheld. Also, it will help the Palestinian people with their national aspirations. They, too, had a right to self-determination.

    Israel cannot keep all its land, and continue to be a democracy and jewish state. That is the bottom line! The way forward, according to zionist values, has got to be a two-state solution!

    -----

    I don't often comment on internet forums about this topic, however I felt the need to do so, because the facts in this documentary are wrong, and that, for me, is unacceptable. All I want is people to know the facts on the ground, and for them to formulate their own, genuine, opinions.
    To be honest, I think this video should be removed, or should present itself with a blatant anti-zionist agenda, so the audience are not manipulated.

  • Thomas Durham

    Zionism became violent when it became caught up in the idea of becoming an official state. The Palestinians became increasingly violent (though far less successful) as they sought to retaliate through similar structural organization. Both peoples are the victims and perpetrators of the fallacy of institutional power. From a pragmatic position, Israeli policy should be opposed. Philosophically, I care only for the individuals on both sides who have suffered due to a chain of events beyond their control.

  • pistol987

    less talk more action? actions speak louder then words? should i go on... okay... PROPAGANDA!

  • http://neretva-riverinperil.blogspot.com/ Santa

    My deepest respect for Ronen B. author of this doc.

  • http://neretva-riverinperil.blogspot.com/ Santa

    Author (without quotes which you used) is a Jew, Israeli citizen and ex-soldier - WHO are you ?! A fat, well feed, well paid American arrogant-"west-and-the-rest"-world-view, self-served and self-righteous, greedy, brazen and cynical propagandist ?

  • Jarred01

    Don't jump to conclusions before you post, because it delegitimises what you would otherwise have to say.

    The fact that the author is a Jew, an Israeli citizen and an ex-soldier is brilliant, but does not prove he is well versed in zionist history and literature! In fact, one of the biggest problems with the Israeli education system is that it fails to educate about the great zionist thinkers, such as A.D Gordon, Berl Katznelson, Moshe Hess, as well as Ahad Ha'am and Theodore Herzl (The list goes on), all of whom laid the foundations for an Israeli state to be established on the grounds, or values, that I mentioned before. In fact, the Israeli education system also neglects to educate on the not-so-great, but still highly influential zionist thinkers such as Ze'ev Jabotinsky, and the rest of the Revisionist Zionist movement, and Rav Kook, and the rest of the Religious Zionist movement.
    So, I am sure the author knows plenty about contemporary Israeli society. Most probably even more than I do, but do not assume that means they know everything about Zionism.

    (And also don't assume how much I know, and who I am. If you are interested, I have spent the last year of my life living in Israel, learning about Zionism in depth, as well as Judaism and other contemporary global issues. Since then, I have devoted the coming few years of my life to educating the Jewish community in Australia toward a more organic understanding of what Zionism truly is. (The Jewish community often accepts it blindly and supports whatever Israel does, without questioning her actions. Zionism is about challenging the Jewish Democratic state each and every day, so it can be as perfect a society as possible... and that is something which I hope to teach about!) So no, I am not a "A fat, well feed, well paid American arrogant-"west-and-the-rest"-world-view, self-served and self-righteous, greedy, brazen and cynical propagandist ?" I am first and foremost a Jewish Zionist, who has devoted my life to learning about, educating on and shaping the future of 'The Zionist Story'.)

    I am also not too sure how frequently you post on forums, in fact, I am not too sure how you speak to people face to face, but in the future try and attack their arguments, rather than the person. Other people would have been highly offended by the attack you made on me. I am not asking for an apology. Just recognise what you did, and please do not do it again.
    Thanks, and If you want to respond, I would love to hear what you have to say. (Again though, I am not interested in hearing what you have to say about me as a person)

  • thekingbeyondthegate

    My respect for Israelis has gone up. Not to say I was prejudiced but I thought they all accepted the propaganda of their government and ideology; that they have the divine right to do whatever they want in the middle east. Its good to know that even those within can take an intellectual objective viewpoint and understand the truth of events.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matthew-Laing-Gibbard/1657530189 Matthew Laing Gibbard

    well I hope you ended up seeing the whole thing. I'm sure it will only help you to bolster your arguments and beliefs.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Matthew-Laing-Gibbard/1657530189 Matthew Laing Gibbard

    well I hope you ended up seeing the whole thing. I'm sure it will only help you to bolster your arguments and beliefs.

  • Joe_NYC

    Jarred

    I reread your posts again thinking I might have missed something. You mentioned under zionism two states solution is the only way to go forward. Then do you agree with obama recently saying that the 1967 border should be the starting point of the negotiation?

  • Jarred01

    I am sort of hesitant to respond here, because I am not too interested in getting into an argument with anyone about what the borders should exactly be. At least on a forum like this.

    However, considering you asked, I am happy to respond.
    Everyone seems to be neglecting the few, but incredibly vital words after the comment about returning to the 1967 borders; "with mutually agreed land swaps."

    What should that entail?
    Major settlements such as Maale Adoumim, as well as a few others should be apart of Israel, and East Jerusalem should be apart of Palestine. (As well as some other land swaps)
    *I am still not sure what the best solution would be for the Old City of Jerusalem. On one hand, the UN could possibly manage it effectively. On the other, it would be a shame for the Jewish people not to have control over the Jewish quarter, and the Palestinian people not to have control over the Musilm and Christian quarters. As for the Armenian quarter, I am not too sure. So, maybe Israel should hold the Jewish quarter, and Palestine hold the other quarters of the Old City.

    So, on the grounds of the mutually agreed landswaps, I would love to see a Palestinian state established beside the Jewish state.

    BUT, that should, (and no Israeli government would allow otherwise) require a full recognition by our Palestinian counterparts of Israels right to exist as a Jewish Democratic state!
    *Will Hamas ever recognise Israels right to exist?
    * Can the Israeli government trust Fatah while they are in a unity government with Hamas?

    These questions need to be answered before going forward. Unfortuantely, if Hamas refuses to recognise Israels right to exist, I cannot see the peace process moving forward.

    On top of this, the Israeli government has got to stop building settlements, because that is decreasing the likelyhood of any peace deal being made!

    So basically, I agree with 'Obamas proposal' (which is nothing new) with a few conditions.
    1. Certain areas of land is swapped.
    2. Hamas, and the Palestinian Government recognise Israels right to exist.
    3. The borders are sustainable, and Israel does not feel at constant threat from attack. (There is minimal distance from what the border of Israel/Palestine would be, and major Israeli cities such as Tel Aviv, Netanya, Jerusalem (obviously), Haifa etc.)
    4. The Israeli government stop building settlements.

    I think these are all fair grounds upon which to build a strong lasting peace between Israel and Palestine.
    What do you think?

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-B-Severy/557985964 David B Severy

    Pro Arab or pro Islam? There is a difference. Arabs are people. Islamists are also people, but they are people with an agenda: World hegemony, the world Caliphate. While the Jews would be happy to have Israel, a land the size of New Jersey, the Islamists want the entire world!!! It is so very unreasonable to refuse the Jews a homeland and peace in it. One out of every 450 people in the earth is a Jew. Three out of ten are Christian and two out of ten are Muslim.
    Comparative data on the Jewish and Muslim world populations
    • Of the 7,116,200 people who live in Israel, 1,413,500 or 20% are Arabs (Muslim & Druze).
    • In the world there are 12.9 million Jews and 1.48 billion Muslims (25% of the world population).
    • The 22 Arab countries in the Middle East and Africa have a land area 640 times larger than Israel.
    • Israel is surrounded by 270 million Muslims including 1.2 million Muslims who live peacefully and in peace in Israel.
    • There are 6.5 million Jews in the USA compared to 5.1 million Muslims.
    • There are 1.1 million Jews in Europe compared to 44.1 million Muslims.
    • Israel land area: 8,000 sq miles.
    • Muslim land area: 5,120,000 sq miles.
    The question is why are so many Arabs and others afraid of the Jews who number around one quarter of one percent of the world’s population?

    We cannot forget history. Both Jews and Christians have been persecuted since Jesus time. and the Jews since their slavery to Egypt. After NAZI (socialist) Germany murdered 6,000,000 Jews in WW2, the United Nations decided to give the land to the Jewish people. Call it "Palestine" or whatever; it was the UN who gave it to the Jews. All over Africa and the mid east England and France were abandoning their colonies.

    We cannot forget the great history of the Bible. This history shows an enmity between the Jews and the ancestors of the Arabs to be enemies as far back as Abraham and Jacob, and Ishmael and Esau, the brothers of Isaac and Jacob respectively. The Bible states that God gave Abraham and his posterity the land of Canaan. Those who believe in the God of the Bible will accept this as an irrevocable promise which God will not go back on.

    So the pleas of the "Palestinians" are better directed to the God of Heaven. It is the God of Heaven who authoritatively though mysteriously dispenses justice. Wait and see.

    It is faith in the Jewish Messiah Jesus which makes all the difference for Jew and Arab and all the peoples of the earth. God does as pleases Him, even when it offends large numbers of people. God never does wrong. It is sinners who do wrong, and all have sinned. God does everything right. If you think you are more correct than God, good luck with that. There are several billion people in the world who believe the same thing of themselves. We ought to see the advantage, the safety and the elegance of following God and Jesus.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/David-B-Severy/557985964 David B Severy

    We are so stuck in the moment! Jesus is coming back and everything is going to change.

    Micah 6:8
    "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee? But to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God."

  • far far

    @David:

    Muslims are also Christians and Jews.

    i.e Islam is a reaffirmation of the prophets Jesus, Moses, Abraham...etc

    What do you think happened to the original Jews of the bible or those Christians who followed Jesus in the flesh?

    A lot of them eventually became Muslims!

    Once we had Windows 95 then came XP and now we have Windows 7.

    How you likely think about it is a Windows vs Apple thing...

  • suljagurl

    i have so much respect for you and your refreshing couragous honesty and sense of responsibility you expressed in you work! this documentary was bold and superb! i have posted it on my facebook too! please continue your excellent work and while at it send a copy of this to that two-face sellout Obama! whish you all the best!

  • Roy

    Could you point out what exactly, in your opinion, could be considered as an objective viewpoint in this documentary?

  • Roy

    Hello @steamknife
    You are right. I should lose the sarcastic and insulting remarks although if you read what I wrote, I wouldn't say it is the main attribute of my posts (please seek my replays to WTC97 if you want 100% informative info).
    I admit it is difficult for me to remain indifferent to those who call me and my people "inherently evil" or accuse me of being a paid IDF recruit or insult my grammar while completely ignoring what I wrote.

    With that being said, if you want information or my POV I'll be happy to oblige. ask away.

  • far far

    The sarcasm and insults shows the true nature of your environment.

    "my people"? Are you American? Dutch? Russian? I really hope you are not referring to Judaism!

  • Roy

    Could you clarify what environment do you mean?

    My people are whoever who consider themselves Israeli.

  • far far

    Your environment, meaning people around you, in the case of sarcasm and insults.

    Are you referring to the ancient Israelites?
    In modern times, they are now just like most of the ancient people in that area, called "Arabs".

    Are you an Arab?

  • Roy

    As you might know, there is a country called Israel in modern times so... i mean Israelis, just like Americans, French or Syrians.

    "they are now just like most of the ancient people in that area, called Arabs".
    Well... you know, there is something called DNA in our days and while most Arabs are not descendants of the ancient Israelites (some of them are), most of the Jews are certainly descendants of the people who inhibited ancient Israel. It was proven by DNA. look it up.

  • Roy

    By the way,
    who do you think are the people around me? what is my environment?

  • far far

    I think you are confused.

    Where is the ancient Israelite that has been DNA tested? You talk about "most" but have "most" of the people you speak of been tested?

    The modern day "country" you speak of is not recognized by everyone. Ironically by the people who are the original Israelites!

  • WTC7

    Poor thing.....

  • Guest

    Yes, you are right.

  • Roy

    I don't seem to be confused.
    As far as I know, with my limited knowledge about DNA, you don't have to test MOST of the people to conclude they have similar origins, you need only to have several samples from most of the different communities around the world, and that have been done. this research found that most Jews ( Europeans, Sephardic, Arabs etc.) have the same origins and are much more closely related to each other then to non-Jews in their own communities. furthermore, those Jews were found to have originated from the fertile middle east.
    In regards to the linkage to the ancient Israelites, I don't know how they got that conclusion and that's because it doesn't really concerns me. the notion that genetic linkage of modern Jews to the ancient Israelites have any bearings on the legitimacy of modern Israel was propagated by those who seek to de-legitimize Israel by any means necessary and by orthodox Jews, and I belong to neither group. I derive Israel's legitimacy from hundreds of years of shared Jewish fate and history and also from Israel's many achievements in almost every field (from medicine to research to humanitarian aid around the world). as I see it, genetics have no relevance, and it never did.
    but it seems genetics have much relevance for you so go ahead and read the numerous books about the extensive research that have been done on the subject. no one going to do the job of enlightening yourself for you.

    But maybe you know better then those who dedicated their lives to DNA research in general and Jewish genetic especially (I'm not cynical). you seem to have much stricter genetic research methodology then accepted in the scientific community so when you assert numerous times that MOST ancient Israelites are today's Arabs I presume you did test an ancient Israelite and most of the people you speak of, right? just to further my horizons, could you elaborate on what research you base your assertions?
    I'm inclined to change my mind and believe an anonymous poster who, for some unknown reason, creates a new user every month or so with a slightly different name (yes, this time I was cynical, it's probably because my environment.. oops, cynic again...).

  • Roy

    Also, when you say "The modern day "country" you speak of is not recognized by everyone", do you mean all those autocratic/theocratic nations who butcher their own people by the hundreds, as we seen with recent events?
    well... those nations also say that the holocaust never happened.. you believe that also?

  • far far

    "Israel's many achievements in almost every field (from medicine to research to humanitarian aid around the world)"

    Could you say the same thing about Nazi Germany?
    Scientific achievements?
    How about when they tried to rewrite history to legitimize their existence?

    Like I keep saying you are a product of your environment.

  • Roy

    So, what basically you are saying is that every person who uses cynicism is a product of a "bad" environment? (Hasty generalization logical fallacy and Ad hominem logical fallacy)

    Also, is it something you do regularly, taking one thing someone said which have a resemblance to Nazi Germany and infer they are the same? I believe there is an academic phrase for that kind of reasoning... (False analogy logical fallacy and in your particular case also Cherry picking logical fallacy)

    "How about when they tried to rewrite history to legitimize their existence?" - do you claim Israel has re wrote history? if so please give facts that support this claim (by the way, this is another logical fallacy - Fallacy of Guilt by Association)

    Lastly, you haven't given me the scientific sources you used to base your assertion that MOST ancient Israelites are today's Arab. you seem pretty sure about it as you mention it in almost every post.

  • Clix (????)

    You think you're presenting an intelligent argument by virtue of being pedantic and excruciatingly verbose. I don't care which way you slice it, the modern day state of Israel, Zionism and its adherents are evil. Despite the ongoing assault on free speech through organizations like ADL, we're making much progress in portraying Zionists like you for the racist and corrosive elements you are in the world.

    I remember as a child when my father and his friends would sit around lament how the Apartheid government of South Africa was insurmountable. We saw the fissures in its structure in the early 80's and eventual demise in the early 90's. I am an astute student of grassroots movements, and the fissures in the structure of the Zionist Apartheid are quite apparent.

    I have no problem with Judaism. I have many friends and family members who are Jewish.

  • Roy

    Actually, in your case I really don't need to present an intelligent argument. the fact that you consider a group of more then 7 million different people, with hundreds and even thousands different opinions and views, as inherently evil shows the true nature of your POV.
    Even I, as a proud Israeli, don't think the Palestinians are inherently evil.

    Also, I would like to apologize if the facts and arguments I present in this forum are excruciatingly tiring for you. maybe you should consider not participating.

  • Clix (????)

    Oh, don't worry. I will participate enough to call your racist BS what it is. I know that is Zionist MO, silencing dissent. They have taught you well. I am starting to buy the speculation that you are a recent release from the IDF.

  • Roy

    If you know "us" so well, please show me - how am I racist?
    I wrote plenty, as you pointed out yourself, for you to expose my racism.
    Until now you only wrote abstruse arguments.

  • far far

    You have rights to what you think is "your country" based on what? A political movement? A religious movement? Who are these you call "my people"?

  • Roy

    God does not make wars and does not resolve conflicts.
    people do.
    Whether you believe in God or not, reliance on God will only lead to stagnation and more wars, as history showed time after time.

  • Roy

    I hate to repeat myself, but as I said: my people = Israelis.
    whether you, or 300 million Arabs for that matter, don't think Israel has a right to exist is meaningless. it still exists.
    Just as the sun will continue to exist even if you think it doesn't.

  • Clix (????)

    Hmmm...that's an interesting question, usually posed by those who lack the ability for self-examination. It will be tough one for you due to the magnitude of programming done on you by the IDF, but you can try. Examine your motives and justifications for supporting Zionism and the dehumanization and rape of the Palestinians. It's a simple concept, but it requires that you admit the facts that Palestinians are 1) human beings 2) are entitled to self-determination according to international law. Voila..just like that, the answer will come to you. The rest of of the Zionists dirty tricks we'll consider bygones ones the Palestinians are sovereign. You can help achieve that goal through an honest self-examination.

    My good deed for today is done! xD

  • Roy

    Well, I know Palestinians to be humane beings and I truly believe they have the right for self determination. but you still didn't answer my question: what in my writings can you point out to show I'm a raciest? my programing cant be that good...

    Also, don't you think regarding millions of people as evil and programmed is raciest? especially if you don't know them personally?
    Could it be you are the raciest?
    because I have to tell you, you remind my a lot of those people who hate black people and have the necessity to repeat time after time how they have many black friends... why do you think you feel obligated to write how many Jewish friends you have all the time?
    also, have you heard of the term "Psychological projection"?

  • far far

    The **Billions** of people (Arabs and Non Arabs) around the world know you have nothing to do with the Israelites, whatever you want to call yourself!

    The Sun will continue to exists even if you call it the Moon!

  • Roy

    Wow... this is the best argument you could produce?
    kudos

  • Clix (????)

    Ok, now justify your Zionists beliefs based on those two points that you have just admitted. Zionist beliefs = Current Israeli government polices towards Palestinians and those who oppose them, which you support.

    Making progress today! :-|

  • Roy

    Lets make a deal, shall we?
    if you answer my questions in my earlier post, ii'l answer yours. sounds fair?
    because up until now it feels like an interview and not a dialog.
    what do you say sport?

  • far far

    You have a problem with calling a whole group of people racist or evil?

    How do you perceive the German Nazis?

  • far far

    Not interested in argument only exposing the truth....

    I am certain that once you find yourself on the wrong side of the truth it will simply be a lost argument for you. Time will tell.

  • Roy

    Good question.
    I perceive Hitler as evil. also Goebbels.
    But I certinally don't perceive all Nazis as evil. I don't know what was the reality of every Nazi in Nazi Germany. I know there were Nazi who just didn't know any better but it didn't make them evil. you have to examine every individual for himself.

    Now your turn. do you perceive Zionism same as Nazis?
    if so, what is your reasoning?

  • Clix (????)

    Minor setback! :-/

    Here is your carrot: Yes, I despise Zionism, as I did the South African Apartheid system. My Jewish friends and family members know it, and we rarely discuss it. When we do, we take time apart from each other for a while. If that makes me a racist, I will wear it as a badge of honor.

    What say you, sport?

  • Roy

    Well, if you are so eager to expose the truth, why aren't you giving any facts?
    and why are you afraid of answering any question I asked you so far?

  • Roy

    Well, you only answered one question so i'll answer just one also. because as I said, this is not an interview and there is no point to a one sided discussion.

    One of my current government policies is giving most Palestinians, even from Gaza controlled by Hamas, in need of medical attention, treatment inside Israel.

    only in 2010, some 180,000 Palestinians got treated in Israeli hospitals including emergency surgurys, transplants (by Jewish donors) and many more.

    I support that policy. by the way, those numbers are not from the Israeli government or IDF but from the PLO and Hamas.

    Of course there also policies I do not support, but you will have to be more specific about what policies you mean because there are many.

    But before I answer another question you have to answer mine: what in my writings can you point out to show I'm a raciest?

  • Guest

    I imagine if you three were face to face, there would be a lot of screaming and a bit of punching each other....
    Small scale war!
    az

  • far far

    Did the Nazis treat prisoners in hospital camps?

    No connection. Just simple facts.

  • Roy

    I never punched another humane being in my life.
    but I get your point. although I almost never scream in arguments.

  • Roy

    as far as I know they really didn't.
    But you are doing it again.. is your arsenal of reasoning so poor you cant say anything of substance without bringing up the Nazis?

  • far far

    Your reasoning is so poor you cant see the obvious connection!

  • far far

    Why punch someone when you can shoot them...

  • Roy

    Darling, I see very clearly the connection YOU are trying to make (although you tried to claim there is no connection).
    As I said in an earlier post, the fact that there are similarities between two cases does not mean they are the same or that you could infer conclusions one from the other.
    The fact that you cant produce any valid argument to support your claims without using the nazis, shows a lot about you. there is an extensive research about those who uses the nazis to win debates.
    Those research does not put you in a favorable light.
    just search Godwin's law.

  • far far

    Is this the same research about those who use the holocaust to win debates?

  • Roy

    Please show when I tried to use to holocaust to win a debate!
    I wrote extensively here. please enlighten me.

  • far far

    I think that one went over your head!

  • Roy

    Its very heartwarming your attempts to belittle me.
    So, basically what you say is that if someone else is doing something wrong, its ok for you to do something wrong?

  • Roy

    By the way, wasn't it you who said that if somebody uses insults it shows of his environment? what does this remark say about your environment?
    or does it apply only for those you don't agree with?

  • WTC7

    Hi Israeli,

    I have a feeling that you like this conversation with 'far far' because it takes the discussion into something that resembles a racial issue & distracts the principal topic of the discourse - the validity of the Zionist plan to settle Jews in somebody else's country and rightfully claim the supremacy of the right of the Jews to that land. Because that supposed right is based on an over 2000 years old Jewish religious book the content and messages of which have no validity for a large part of the world's population. You feed on far far's statements that focus on irrelevant issues of DNA & who 'truly' is a Jew
    & who is not genetically. I absolutely reject such racist discourse which, on
    top of everything, has no bearing to the topic. I also do understand your
    need to provide an acceptable justification for the Zionist project - you are
    probably from Israel & it should be very hard to deny the righteousness of
    the right to existence of your home country. However, you must not be
    surprised, & perhaps you should ask yourself, why so many people have a rather negative view of the role of Israel in the Middle East history of 20th century. It's either that we are all so terribly wrong & can't see how many good things Israel has brought to the overall goodness in the world or it is you who can't see it's wrongdoings.

  • Roy

    Hello WTC7

    You presented your view on the subject to me about a month ago. maybe more. I wrote you a very comprehensive and respectful response to your questions and claims. you didn't respond and I presume you didn't read what I wrote because if you did you would know that I and Zionism do not base Israel's legitimacy on the bible nor we claim supremacy over the land nor we deny the Palestinians their rights for self determination. at least thats my viewpoint.

    You seem as a very reasonable person and I would be happy to make a fruitful discussion with you on this subject.
    that being said, it took me several hours to write and research what I wrote you and I am not going to spend that time again just to be ignored again.
    If you really want to debate on the subject please go back to my response to you and we will pick it up from there.
    If not, have a great day.

    By the way, yes, I enjoy my conversation with 'far far' ( which is the same person as 'fraking spamshell' and 'far spam') but not for the reasons you mentioned.
    I enjoy it because it is easy to deal with racists.

  • far far

    come join the human race.

  • WTC7

    Thank you for your quick response and I do apologize for not writing back a while ago (but it's nothing personal, I just don't have that much time these last months and I should get my own time back to normal mid next week). I promise I will go back to your post and provide you with a feedback on what I think about it. Please, do not feel offended thinking that I did not appreciate the time you spent on your response out of malice. Greetings

  • Roy

    :)
    I wasnt offended. well.. maybe a little but I knew it was not out of malice.
    Looking forward for it.

  • WTC7

    Thanks! See you on the "verbal & friendly battle field" soon :)

  • far far

    WTC7 let me add to the confusion.

    Judaism is NOT a race it is a Religion!

    Real Jews have nothing to do with Zionism.

  • RileyRampant

    if the UN were to give your land away, would you be likely to accept their 'mandate'?

    what force does the UN have, besides the support of western interests, represented by their military cadres and power, much of which was gained through colonial exploitation?

    certain countries have veto power over anything the UN decides to do. that should tell us something important about the UN, and who it serves.

    in terms of history, Palestine actually was a 'gift' of the British to European zionists, in direct abrogation of previous agreements with Arab sovereigns, such as Faisal, who fought and defeated the Ottomans, at British behest and in service to a promise of Arab sovereignity over Arab lands, of which Palestine is very definitely part - this doc points that out, I believe.

    the Arab mandate begs to differ.

    the UN 'mandate' was just the icing on the cake of the British 'mandate'. the us secretaries of defense and state (Forestall & Marshall) opposed partition, by the way. political pressures in the U.S. drove the decision, not the best perception of US national interest in the view of those appointed to promote and protect them.

    back in '47, before our current orthodoxy of slavish support for israel had congealed, before we became utterly complicit in the israel project, here is what the director of the State Department’s Office of Near Eastern and African Affairs submitted to Marshall and the President:

    “These proposals, for instance, ignore such principles as self-determination and majority rule. They recognize the principle of a theocratic racial state and even go so far in several instances as to discriminate on grounds of religion and race against persons outside of Palestine. We have hitherto always held that in our foreign relations American citizens, regardless of race or religion, are entitled to uniform treatment. The stress on whether persons are Jews or non-Jews is certain to strengthen feelings among both Jews and Gentiles in the United States and elsewhere that Jewish citizens are not the same as other citizens.

    “We are under no obligations to the Jews to set up a Jewish state. The Balfour Declaration and the Mandate provided not for a Jewish state, but for a Jewish national home.2 Neither the United States nor the British Government has ever interpreted the term ‘Jewish national home’ to be a Jewish national state.”

    food for thought...

  • Clix (????)

    Here is me killing two birds in one stone! :-,

    1. Do you support the Israeli government's demolishing of Palestinian homes due to discriminatory laws? If so, you're a racists.

    2. Do you support the policy of diverting water from Palestinians to provide water to the illegal settlements in the occupied territories? If so, you're a racists.

    3. IDF forces routinely abuse innocent Palestinians and are not accountable for it. Do you support that? If so, you're a racists.

    4. Do you support Israeli government's Separate but Unequal policy as reported by Human Rights Watch? If so you're a racist.

    5. Do you support Israel's discriminatory marriage policies? If so, you're a racist.

    6. Do you support the Israeli government's policies of ghettoization of areas occupied by Palestinians? If so, you're a racist.

    7. Do you support the second-class citizenship of Arab-Israelis? If so, you are a racist.

    8. Do you support the building of separation wall? If so, you're a racist.

    8. More importantly, do you, as a Jew Israeli citizen, benefit from the racist polices of the Israeli government listed above, and more, and do not go out of your way to do anything about it? If so, you are a racist.

    That should do for now.

  • Roy

    1. The demolishing of Palestinian homes is NOT due to discriminatory laws. Israel demolishes the homes of Palestinians who conducted terrorism acts. Israel also demolishes the homes of Jewish settlers. and no, I do not support it.
    2. This is not fact, but fiction. if you have proof of it, please provide it.
    3. 4 soldiers were sent for 2 months in jail for beating up a Palestinian in September 2006, a solider was sent for a month and a half in jail for beating up a Palestinian in February 2004, a solider convicted on manslaughter in 2003 for killing a Palestinian (I don't know what was his sentence), numerous soldiers sent to several months in jail for shooting a smoke grande on Palestinian protesters in may 2005, following the second intifada where some 1,115 Israeli citizens were killed by Palestinians - more then 50 soldiers were convicted and sentenced to jail for abusing Palestinians rights. and the list is far and long. so... with all due respect your claim is not based on facts but on fiction.
    4.I don't really understand what you mean.
    5. no, I object it. but keep in mind that this law is discriminate to secular Jews also.
    6. if the Palestinians were Israeli citizens then you were right. but they are not, nor they want to be. they ghettoed themselves.
    7. the Arab Israeli population is not a second class citizens by law. they have all the rights Jewish citizens have. while there is discrimination it's no different then the discrimination other minorities suffer in western countries and there are other factors like their refusal to participate in the obligations that all other Israelis (including Christians and Druz) have to do like civil/army service and paying taxes.
    8. I do support the concept of it. again, the Palestinians are not Israeli citizens so the separation wall does not separate Israelis from Israelis. and it proved it's effectiveness - Israeli terror casualties dropped significantly since its construction, Jewish and Arab alike. I would add that I object it's current outline as it does harm the rights of some Arab Israelis.
    9. I wont answer that question as it assert what it did not prove.

  • WTC7

    @ far far,

    Please, let me assure you that there is no need to try to explain to me the difference between a race and a religion. I think that in the course of (quite a few) years of my life experience and modest education, I have learned the difference between the two.

    On the other hand, I must say that I am at a loss when it comes to who the "real" Jews are and who are those that are not "real". But, honestly, I couldn't care less about learning about this distinction. (Personally, I'd be the happiest if I, somehow, could declare myself being an Earthling or a Martian (but I guess I would be viewed as a weirdo) and officially disengage from the human need to be placed into a racial, national, ethnic or any other box.)

    To give you my opinion about your statement, from what I understand, the Jews are Semites, which brings them close to Arabs in terms of ethnic grouping. But it is not up to me or up to you to decide on how someone feels about themselves. If a person, or a group of people, feel that they are different from me in whatever way and wish to express that distinctiveness in some way, it is really his/her/their right to do so. By trying to prove to them that they are the same as me would be a pointless exercise because obviously there is something that is setting us apart - be it their wish to be different only. As long as I have the right to acquire the same autonomy (should I wish to do so) and as long they don't restrict the same autonomy to me, I will respect that difference.

    Zionism is an idea that in its origin (although it is based on the quasi-historic heritage described in the Bible) has nothing to do with Jewish religion (this is for Israeli3 as well :)). I am personally in opposition to the Zionist project exactly because, in my understanding, it sought to satisfy the Jewish desire for establishment of a (Biblical) homeland at the expense of another people.

    The difference between your opinion and mine in this case is that I know exactly why am I critical about Zionism whereas your stance seem to be a bit indoctrinated.

    No, you have not confused me.

  • RileyRampant

    the objective viewpoint would be that the palestinians have been deprived of their land & human rights. to the extent that one class of persons, namely jews, are allowed an unconditional right to immigrate, whereas the people who actually had lived there for millenia are denied the right of entry, israel is a racist apartheid state.

    to the extent that jewish extremist settlers from ,say, brooklyn, are supported by the israeli state & military in expropriating palestinian property in the occupied territories and abusing them, as the doc clearly shows, the extent of israeli predation upon palestinian interests becomes even clearer.

    if you defend these aspects of israeli policy, you are forced to declare that jews have special rights that must be respected, while others (non-jews) have no such special privilege.

    where else in the world is such a policy accepted?

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001825191848 James del Valle

    why dont you just tell the truth about things and people might understand. From where I stand Islamic people dont care about this life and seek to be martyred or seek to kill those who go against islamic teachings, thats why they stone women to death and get a sexual kick out of it, Islam is all about sex and the reward in heaven is you guessed it sex, its ok to have sex with children as long as you dont damage them or you will be responsible for their welfare for the rest of your life. This all sounds like its Israeli propoganda to make people dislike Muslims but its very far from it, I personally despise Jews but you cant let what you think about Jews cloud your thinking, the two issues must be seperated, I do think the Jews should evacuate Palestine and if there is no improvement in behaviour towards the west from Muslims we can wipe them off the map with no excuses.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001825191848 James del Valle

    Apologies to anyone offended but I just dont think there is any importance on that bit of land, one bit of land is as good as the next, its not worthless but it was until it became Israel and it will become wothless again after it, Israel can be anywhere in the world why does it have to be bang smack in the middle of countries full of lowlife vermin who rape and oppress women and kids and get away with it because they show men respect. Forget the respect from them and get revenge for wrongs that is what good people do.

  • Roy

    At the start of the 20's century the population of Arabs inside all of Palestine were about 240,000 souls. since then, just until the creation of Israel there were about 1.5 million Arabs. this was mostly due to Arab immigration to Palestine and not natural growth. check the numbers for yourself if you like (the numbers differ but the relative growth is the same).
    so, most of the Palestinians who claim the right of return are just as immigrates to this land as the Jews. they did not live in Palestine for millenia as you claim.
    Israel, as a national country for the Jews have the right to determine that Jews can immigrate to it freely just as the future Palestinian state can determine that the Palestinians can immigrate to it freely and just like the German, French, Swiss and so on determined that their ancestral people can immigrate to their country freely.
    If you claim that Israel is an apartheid state then you don't know what apartheid means. the blacks of south Africa were restricted to vote, were not allowed to live but where they were told, could not study what they wanted, could not act as judges or educators and so on.
    Israeli Arabs can vote, live freely wherever they want, there are plenty of judges, educators, professors, parliament Representatives of Arab descent, they express themselves freely in the press, arts and what not. they even participate in numorus anti Israel activities without any repercussions. my own professor was an Arab. this is an apartheid state? the blacks of south Africa would disagree and it diminishes the severity of the apartheid regime of south Africa.

  • RileyRampant

    oh, by all means - apology accepted. spout all the nonsense that comes rattling thru your head here on the documentary site. please share your wisdom with the world.

  • RileyRampant

    so, because the palestinian population in exile grew, you would exclude them from inclusion amongst the people that were expelled and barred re-entry to the land rightfully held by their now grand or great-grand parents? that is sophistry.

    as far as who immigrated, amongst the arabs, i'd like to see your sources.

    why is jewish ancestry more important than palestinian ancestry, in any case?

    when i use the word apartheid, it is in the context of racial discrimination. the u.s., before the reforms of the 60's, was an apartheid state as well.

    if you object to the use of that particular word, find another. its just shorthand for statutory racism.

    in any case, the facts don't change. i also expect you are smart enough to know that.

  • WTC7

    It's the people like you, James del Valle, that I am afraid of the most. To say that you are saying what you are saying from the lack of knowledge about different cultures and what they have contributed to the world you live in would be wrong, I've met illiterate peasants who had no knowledge of anything except how they should work their fields who had a simple, healthy, human attitude towards the world. You belong to a dangerous kind of people who have no knowledge but are susceptible to accepting irrational stereotypes about other peoples. And display militant views... In one word - sick.

  • Roy

    You distort my words. I didn't talk about the population of Palestinians in exile who grew. I talked about the Arab population of Palestine in the years between 1890-1947 who mostly grew thanks to immigrants. most of the Palestinians in exile you talk about immigrated to Palestine between 1890-1947 so their claim to this land is no more strong then those Jews who immigrated about the same time.
    and who said that jewish ancestry is more important then Palestinian ancestry? why isn't it fair that Palestinians would have their home in a Palestinian country and Jews would have their home in a Jewish country? why there should be 2 Palestinians countries or just one Palestinian country and no Jewish one?
    you are so concerned about Palestinians rights, but you neglect Jewish rights? would Jews have equal rights in a Palestinian country? history and present day events shows they would not.
    And about apartheid - it is not a word which only means racial discrimination. racial discrimination exist in every country in the world. the word apartheid have very distinctive connotation. and I disagree about your assertation that the discrimination in Israel is statutory. it exist, but not by law.

  • Roy

    Wow. Get yourself a therapist.

  • far far

    I think you are very much confused!

    ("Please, let me assure you that there is no need to try to explain to me the difference between a race and a religion."
    ...
    "the Jews are Semites, which brings them close to Arabs in terms of ethnic grouping.")

    The Jews are NOT Semites. Judaism is NOT a race it is a religion.

  • RileyRampant

    Roy, you want to quibble about who moved into palestine between 1890 and 1947, but ignore the massive distinctions made in the present between people based upon race & religion.

    you make a huge point about the word 'apartheid' - because, i suppose, it gives you something to kvetch about, rather than accounting for the actual discrimination in your country.

    my friend lived in the west bank. he could & cannot visit his own family in e. jerusalem (which is why he took them and himself here to the states). he is not a terrorist. he is merely a palestinian. if he had been jewish, he would have no problem moving anywhere in israel OR palestine. there's a very simple example for you, and everyone. those are the facts on the ground, which you seem to want to claim are not statutory.

    ANY jew can decide to emigrate to israel and be granted admittance unconditionally. can a palestinian whose parents had grown olives on land they owned & tended there for many, many generations claim the same privilege? No.

    your justification for all this injustice - THEY would treat US worse. and that's the best you have. for a very intelligent people, that's a piss-poor argument to make to the world.

    they and us. that's the problem. and if YOU hadnt been enabled by US (Britain, France & US) to push THEM around, YOU would be nicer, YOU would have a better country, and YOU would have peace now.

    by the way, just so you know, I love jewish culture and people. they are, by and large, delightful, funny, gifted people. there's a reason the Jews dominate American culture. they earned it, the same way every other people does. but domination isn't always an un-mixed blessing.

    peace,
    Riley

  • Roy

    Hello Riley,
    I answer people's claims and assertions in this forum which are based on distorted realities and lack of knowledge on the history and present day of this conflict. I try to present the facts the best I can. I do not quibble about who moved to where and when or on the meaning of the word Apartheid (and I certainly never claimed legitimacy because "THEY would treat US worse". It was on another subject entirely) - I wrote here extensively about many other points and subjects whom you chose to ignore. I will also answer your current questions and claims.

    You, most of the people in this forum and most of the western and non western world, support the creation of a Palestinian state. I support a Palestinian state also. This Palestinian state would allow only Palestinians to emigrate to it freely (this is the idea that is supported by most of the world) and Jews, Germans, British, American and whoever else, would not be able to emigrate to it freely.
    This is the meaning and implications of "self determination" and we all support it because we all understand the necessity of having a Palestinian home for those in Gaza and Samaria and the Palestinian refuges. We don’t view it as racist discrimination but as a right of the Palestinians people to determine the Composition of their future state.

    Maybe your problem with a Jewish state derives from the semantic and double meaning of the word JEW, so let's make this distinction now. Let's say that the word JEW means "of Jewish descent or ancestry" and the word JUDEN means someone who worships the religion itself.
    If you have a problem with this distinction I would have to say you are a little bit of a hypocrite. That’s because you accept the Palestinians as a people although they didn’t even regard themselves as a people prior to 67 and the realities of their circumstances made them view themselves as a people.
    The same happened with the Jews. The realities of their circumstances in the past 200 years or so made them view themselves as a people because those who persecuted them all over the world viewed them as ONE people. Those who committed the extensive pogroms all over the western world, those who kicked out a million Jews from the Arab states, those who committed the holocaust – they all rationalized their actions by regarding the Jews as a people. They didn’t care if a Jew believed and worshiped the JUDAN god. They only cared if those Jews were of Jewish ancestry.
    These are the events which led the Jewish people regard themselves as a people. And now you claim it's only a religion? Very convenient, but it’s a double standard.
    You don’t have a right, nor the rest of the world, to determine for the Jews if Jews are a people or just a religion just as I don’t have a right to determine for the Palestinians if they are a people or not.

    For conclusion, Israel is a JEWISH state and not a JUDEN state. And as such it has the right to determine its own composition and character, who can emigrate to it freely and who don’t, just as any other country in the world. It is sad to see that only for Israel people try to undermine this right.

    And for your friend who couldn't enter Israel to visit his family – I'm truly sorry as a humane being for his situation. I don’t know what the specific considerations for denying hime entry were but there are many Palestinians who gain entry to Israel on a regular basis for reasons of family, work, education and medical treatment. I acknowledge it is not an easy process but please keep in mind that your friend comes from an entity who is in a state of war with Israel and at least half of their leadership calls openly for the destruction of Israel.
    I can't imagine any country who would give free and flowing access to its boundary under those circumstances. When this conflict would be resolved things will be different but for now Israel has the right, like any other country, to secure its borders from those who seek to harm it. Maybe your friend should try to change his own society so a leadership like Hamas would not be so widely accepted.

    Peace

  • WTC7

    @ Roy,

    I first apologize for a long delay in replying, I was engaged in some personal issues.

    You say:
    "Herzl, for example, wrote many times about treating the indigenous population equally and with respect and trying to make those, who wish to stay in the future Jewish country, part of the national endeavor."

    BUT you sadly don't see the blind (I am sure not ill-intended but still...) ignorance and arrogance of that statement. Who is Theodore Herzl, a Hungarian born, to put any indigenous person in Palestine at that time in a position to have to choose to accept the Jewish rule or leave their home???????? Based on which right????!!! Divine perhaps?!

    But, let's start from the beginning.

    1."The bride is beautiful, but she is married to another man."

    That was a cable from a Jewish delegation sent to assess the situation on the spot after the First Zionist Congress in Basel in 1897. Herzl, Weizmann and other early Zionist leaders were very well aware of the fact that there was a people who lived in Palestine, regardless of who ruled it at the time, people who inhabited the land, but the Zionists thought not much of them except that they should be happy with the Jewish immigration bringing economic prosperity. They did not understand, nor care, that with the demise of the Ottoman Empire there grew an idea of a Palestinian nation (which did not exist before and was in its infancy at the dawn of the 20th century).

    Ze'ev Jabotinsky, a man with outstanding skills, a radical Zionist, disagreed with the above two mentioned on the issue of the Palestinian Arabs. He was much more of a pragmatist and understood that the Zionist idea will likely cause the native inhabitants to protest the creation of the Jewish state. In 1923, he says in America and Founding of Isreal:

    "The Arabs loved their country as much as the Jews did. Instinctively, they understood Zionist aspirations very well, and their decision to resist them was only natural ..... There was no misunderstanding between Jew and Arab, but a natural conflict. .... No Agreement was possible with the Palestinian Arab; they would accept Zionism only when they found themselves up against an 'iron wall,' when they realize they had no alternative but to accept Jewish settlement."

    As much radical Jabotinsky was, at least he was a realist and understood that there will have to be a conflict between the two people who wanted the same thing. Personally, I respect him much more than any other of the early Zionists, simply because he wasn't selling BS. But it doesn't provide any justification for the Zionist cause.

    (By the way, British technically didn't rule Palestine, they were mandated with it). So, maybe there wasn't a country to invade, in the sense we know today, but there was a people who was opposed to the Jewish state and the early Zionists knew it, there is no doubt about it.

    2. If a 100 K people moved to Canada and bought land there may very well be ok with the Canadian government and people. But if these 100 K newcomers showed strong determination to make their own state there in spite of the opposition of the Canadian people may change things to some extent, don't you think? You may object the term "invasion" but I firmly stand to it. I call the same name the "immigration" of the Europeans to the North American continent - we immigrate running away from poverty and oppression and then we decimate the indigenous populations because we need space, so we are justified. Just like locust invasions. Unacceptable in my view, but at least locusts are insects... Don't misunderstand me please, I am not comparing anyone with insects, I simply despise the idea of driving someone out of their home and claiming a higher purpose as a justification for it.

    One more thing, during the Ottoman Empire, the Jews, just like all foreigners, could buy land (which was usually bought from the absent land owners) according to the so-called "capitulation rights". "The Capitulations gave foreign citizens protection, and exempted them from all Turkish taxes". Weren't Jews in a favorable position compared to natives in this respect then? I don't think Canada would allow that.

    3. You are wrong if you think that I would deny the inhumane discrimination against the Jews in Europe, which was an impetus for the Jewish desire to get a place of their own (but note that this was partly also because they refused any assimilation into the cultures that hosted them in Europe). I truly sympathize with the fate of your grandparents, I come from a part of the world where the loss of life and property, and displacement was a common occurrence very recently.

    Still, among 'new homelands' where the Jews could move, they chose Palestine (among others, Uganda was proposed as a place to settle, but it almost led to the split in the Zionist movement - Palestine was THE homeland they could only agree about, hence, there is a lot of religious background here, even though Zionism as such claims to be a secular movement).

    As to the British and their preferences, they have promised to the Sheik Hussein of Mecca basically the whole of Palestine if he joins the fight against the Ottomans, but they tricked him.

    You mention the Peel Commission of 1937 and it's conclusions about partition, but you neglect to mention an earlier one (of many commissions on Palestine throughout the years) - the King Crane Commission, set by US president Wilson in 1919. The King Crane Commission found that "Syrians were opposed to a separation of Syria and Palestine and that the Arabs in general were not willing to accept even a moderate Zionist project in Palestine. Accordingly, the Commission recommended a modification of the Zionist program in order to protect the rights of the non-Jewish inhabitants. The findings of the Commission, however, were ignored."

    But the Zionist project could not be stopped there, could it? The Balfour Declaration was eventually included in the San Remo Conference paper on Palestine (in 1920 - that much about respect for the Arab wishes and their clear messages, as if they didn't exist on the map of Palestine at all).

    You are absolutely right when you say that "while the Jewish community concentrated on developing their institutions, Agriculture, commerce and more, the Arabs concentrated on opposing the Jews". The Arabs were disorganized, engaged in the eternal local issues of prevalence, without a clear direction.... etc. But none of that deprives them of their right to say 'no' to the Zionist project in Palestine. It was their land and they should not have paid the price of the world's injustices done to the Jewish people.

    As far as I am concerned, all the latter / current problems stem from that initial blunder, well, not a blunder really, more like a conscious plan that went wrong in line with the thinking of Jabotinsky - because he knew, and all Zionists should have understood, that it was a plan made without the consent of the people on whose land they were to create the Jewish state. But the State of Israel is there and that's a fact. However, there shouldn't be much surprise that it has never been accepted by the Arabs - they NEVER gave their consent to it. And they paid the price for the viciousness of the 'modern' and 'advanced' European peoples.

    In the end, I think that to claim that Palestine was chosen because no other place would attract enough Jews is strongly in opposition to the fact that the Jews were oppressed all over Europe. If I were to escape oppression, I would have escaped anywhere I was welcomed. But Palestine is a Biblical destination of Jewish people, which makes the claim that the Zionist movement is based on secular ideals clinging on weak grounds.

    We all condemn the terrorist actions of Palestinians (which were not foreign to the Jewish militant organizations in the past either - they killed the UN negotiator in Jerusalem in the wake of the WW II, for example), but you cannot undo the original injustice that was done to the Palestinian Arabs.

  • Guest

    Roy may have had to wait but it wasn't in vain.
    Thank you.
    az

  • WTC7

    Thank YOU Az :-). I appreciate your opinion

  • WTC7

    Just to let you know that I have posted my answer, as I promised. I hope you are doing ok.

    Greetings.

  • Guest

    Quite extensive and detailed.
    Rather hard to bare the whole in mind.
    I'd call that comment a documentary within itself.

    Then I wonder. All that is sort of known (Not as much in detail maybe) all over the world.
    It's well documented facts if anyone wants to dig the case.
    I mean, what does the rest of the world is waiting for?
    That wasn't our reaction when it was the jewish nation that got abused during WWII?

    Now that it's them who abuse others, why are we bystanders?
    I know that I would want to see or witness what my uncles seen over there when they broke the locks of these gates in Germany.
    Realizing what kind of beast is the homosapien is plenty to give up all good will and faith.

    Well, well. the Jewish nation sure did teach the whole world that homosapiens, any homosapien has a very short memory!

    Just think of this, experiencing a physical thrill, emotion in the guts when riding a roller coaster can not be compared to viewing a given individual getting that thrill in a movie.
    Seeing it on a screen just can't be the same as sitting in the roller coaster and getting that emotive knot in the stomach.

    I mean that even though I view the WWII documentaries that includes the concentration camps, as much appaled and disgusted I can be, it just can't be the same as what felt my uncled when they freed these guys over there?
    How about the survivors, would they do the same to their tortionaires?
    I think that once you lived through such an ordeal, you don't do that other. Once one had the knot in the stomach and threw up in the roller coaster car, he or she wouldn't do that to others.
    I know a few senior ukrenians close by that did live through that.
    Not jews but anyhow, human beings...

    SIC: -"And everyday, there one new born". That needs to learn everything from life from A to Z. Live & then die to forget history,

  • Guest

    Shut you vicous beast!
    Beasts shouldn't be allowed in the Internet.
    Should be kept in a cage.

    No doubt that WTC7 made its point of not having the bare minium to qualify for being of the human kind.

  • http://www.youtube.com/user/alronvitis norlavine

    Considering (genetically) there is scientific proof the earliest ancestral direct link to humanity (to date) is the sea sponge - what a disappointment we all turned out to be, despite our 'grande' evolution. Slowly but surely, for whatever reasons, we are slowly but surely killing the ground beneath our feet, everyone else and inevitably ourselves.

  • far far

    With all due respects you can speak for yourself.
    You really dont have to worry about the ground beneath our feet or evolution as they will look after themselves. They will wipe us out or we will wipe our selves out and start again if thats whats going to happen on this planet or the other infinite number of other planets...

  • bluetortilla

    Nothing new to me, but a good documentary nevertheless.
    One thing I think we tend to fail in acknowledging is the role that our top key political leaders play in genocide and oppression. Common people tend to participate in atrocities without much thought or conscience (though they may end up tormented later). They also do not instigate genocide and are in general act morally when left alone. So we do have the potential for peace- clearly it is our leaders that we have to blame.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_3MZUSRSXZ6NXR3UMJ3O6XZ4QDQ Bobby Mitzel

    all the fighting in the middle east is so dumb. if someone came to my hometown and told me to move out yeah id be pissed, but i wouldnt be willing to kill over it. is it really that big of a deal? the bibles fake anyways. what, you cant move 5 miles accross a border? cry about it.

  • Guest

    In the years before '48, the israelies did massacred the "Natives" over there. That is extensively documented (With B&W reels).
    That was the creation of modern terrosism.
    These terrorists also bombed a british hotel where most if not all international figures & diplomats where hosted in the mid-east.

    That terrorist movement was created before the end of WWII because the brits couldn't handle the migrating flow from the NAZI conquests in E-Europe including part of Western Russia.

    There always was quite a large jewish community all over Russia.
    IN now days, these "Russian Natives Jews" have the benefice ($.$$ especially from the USA tax payers) to be "Implanted in the "Newly Annexed" Isreali territory that Israelis consider as their lands.
    As long as the Russian migrant can produce any proof that he of a jewish decent. Same for any other countries all over the world including especially the the USA citizens having direct "Contact" with any USA congress member, fan of torture and war crimes.
    Thus, expulsing the natives within these territories.

    There's a heck of a difference between a jew who's family always lived (For centuries...) within the middle east and all these other ones migrating in the mid-est from abroad.
    In the sense of "Toward the neigbors" which includes their moslem friends and friends of other faiths.
    Really mean "Friends" & neigbor jews who always lived in peace and respect, which contest Israeli gov. the abusive expulsions and murders of the non-israeli faith over there.

    In a documentary (Not here on this site), I seen pure (Sort of Hachemite Jews) in a public ptrotest against the terrorist behavior of their Israeli government.

    What about the american religion (Or nationality should I say?) who shown up at the United Nation to prove that the USA nation is nothing else but a gang of elected liars regarding not only the Saddam hidden WMD but also lied, tortured the Viet nation left aside the Chilian, the Salvadore, the Panameen and so on to have the great dishonor to bring additive drugs in the USA?

    Low disgusting bunch of gangsters.

  • zzz231

    it is in our nature to believe what is most convenient to us despite of what the facts are. "there is no worse blind that the man that does not want to see". Grown people know what is right and what is wroght, they just choose to ignore it, to there convenience and live in there own little world. The truth is out there. But who cares? really, who? not many people do, and it's a shame because if we were been oppressed, we would want others to care. The world can be a better place but it's up to us ("us" as a personal chalenge, not corrupt delegates or any kind for that matter or olse we'll just have the same things over and over and over... maybe just in different time, maybe just in different places).

  • jx10

    Bobby..if someone came to your hometown and told you to leave and you did that then fine. okay for you. But most of us would defy that order to move. Eventually you would run out of place to move. What are you willing to fight for? And this ultimately has nothing to do with the Bible. This is all about displacing people against their will.

    You must have had an easy life. If I send you my address will you send me all of your money?

  • bryan bergman

    Has anyone seen Ernest Scared Stupid? IDK, for some reason I thought of that.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1363454260 Emma Chaplen

    Isreal has to be where it is because modern day Isreal is situated where biblical Canaan was. This is the land they were expelled from.. Moses was supposed to lead the Jews back to their homeland. its funny how you feel you can make coherent statements about isreal when you dont even know this simple piece of information. I recommend a trip to wikipedia before you continue to comment, you might learn what Islam is while your there.

  • http://twitter.com/sekulardemokrat sekulär demokrat

    Lies in the first two minute. 1. It was England who asked if tje Jews after WWII would like too live in Uganda etc. The Jews refused. 2. Palsetine did not exist before 1948. Empire after empire has been there. Ottoman. Persia, Egypt, Arab, England etc... And if the Jews would lost the war in 1948 the arab nations who attacked Israel were supposed to split the area between them. Get the facts right next time.

  • oneworld2011

    evidence please or source if you are so kind. And I hope its from a neutral source and even since the place was not deserted. And the arab nations can jump off a bridge, we don't have to fallow. (What people like you have to understand is that the age of empires is over and a new age, the age of humanity has to start. People now are smart enough and every body deserve a good world).

  • joellenco

    Refer to map circa 1916 (Sykes-Pekot Agreement). It will show you Palestine did exist prior to 1948.

  • Guest

    It appears that you have the age to lie.
    As much a pro-liar as Cheney/Powel can ever be.
    I mean, it just can't be an error from you.
    You're a heck of a crooked mind telling that any arab attacked any jew in 1948. Have you got any documentation of any sort?
    'Cause I can post you something extemely different, the exact contrary as one of Israel founder commited war crime as he also teached humankind "What is terrorism".
    That war strategie didn't exist in those days.

    You are trying to get omited what happened before, must before WWII. That was when the most important facts related to this topic took place! Just as if you know that these facts and situations should be omited in order to fool the rest of the world.

    And this means that you just ought to be one of these most dangerous extremists humankind has to face in now days.
    You and your "Emules" are the slime of this world.

    That land & its surroundings was conquered by the Brits during WWI.
    That was the reason why there was no Palestine as your biased crooked simplistic mind understand!
    Palestine was a region where there was peoples who lived there for centuries. In which, the inhabitants were treated with respect accordingly to their way of life.

    That is what the facts are.
    Then came the jewish terrorists who carried so many killings and blood bath that tbe Brits had to leave the place.
    Because came a time that the Brits had to take care of themselves regarding Mussolini & Hitler.

    Again, that is the fact and not your wild crooked mind thoughts.
    Expressing such a crooked approach brings you down to less than a human being.

    You don't have what it takes to make it!
    You're a waste!

    Pierre.

  • http://www.facebook.com/ScarFaith H Neil Sangte S

    Ok

  • http://www.facebook.com/ScarFaith H Neil Sangte S

    i just don't know what to say...i feel so sad n guilty about everything,the things i'v learnt and experience about the past and present situation we are into,it makes me somehow question everything and i'm quiet certain that i am slowly loose my faith as well as in humanity,love,peace n all that hippy stuff i use to believe in....this doc had me once again i am overwhelmed with this hopelessness i felt before...makes me think wont it be most fair if we all humans die together at once ? instead of having to feel so bothered by Atrocious actions forced to decide upon what is actually the right way to feel about it,to choose who's side i should be on,whom i should sympathizes more and all that matters......this isnt just fair... what we do to ourselves as fellow human beings.

  • jilles reinders

    @Least they have learnd something from Hitler!

    It's making me sick,. also here in the Netherlands it's a very dificult and sensitive subject,. when a view years ago the israeli terrorized gaza and killed over 900 women and childeren, politcians where nowhere to be found to make a point towards the fascist Israëli's,.

    whitout Israël the region would be parradise!!

  • ????? ??????

    Great Job Really.

  • ????? ??????

    By the way, I want to buy a DVD of this documentary. Couldn't find it in Amazon though .. why is that?

  • joellenco

    A Peace to End All Peace- David Fromkin, PhD-Boston University. The source you asked for is provided. To reply to the rest of your post- You have no place to tell me or anyone, what we HAVE to understand. Your posts reveal you can barely manage yourself.

  • WiseGapist

    "whitout Israël the region would be parradise!!" - are you joking?^

  • BughouseWW

    why do you think Iran is in Israel's crosshairs? Because Iran support the Palestinians!
    Haggai Ram, prof of political science at an Israeli university, calls Israeli Jewish hatred of Iran "Iranophobia."

  • BughouseWW

    think about what came first and what came second, Guest. According to Ronen's documentary, Jews had been ethnically cleansing Palestinians for about 20 years by the time of the second war. And, according to Ronen, Jews in Palestine had been playing a double game with the British for almost as long.

    In Naill Ferguson's bio of the Rothschilds, there's a quote that says that on almost every day of Balfour's tenure as prime minister, Baron Rothschild spent 4 or 5 hours a DAY in Balfour's office, at Balfour's elbow, until Balfour addressed the Balfour Declaration to Baron Rothschild. In that Declaration, Balfour promised to Jews that which was not his to give, and ALSO, that which Sykes and Picot had already agreed to divide in a different way.

    Ask yourself WHY is history of holocaust, unlike any other historical event in history, not permitted to be studied and analysed with the same rigor that has prevailed since the 17th century Enlightenment? WHY is it so important to keep the facts under wraps, and maintain the narrative composed by only one side of the event?

    Zionism came first. THEN zionism's schemes and war on Arabs in Palestine. THEN came the collaboration of zionists with Germans to transfer German people and wealth to Palestine. THEN came the remove of zionist leadership to the US, and the migration of many, many German Jews to the US. THEN came the Jewish attacks on British in Palestine. THEN came the suborning of Churchill to wage war on Germany, a war that Hitler and the German people did NOT seek, and for which they were not prepared. Realize that by that time, most Jews -- certainly most wealthy Jews -- were out of Germany; relatively few of the "6 million" were German Jews; most were Slavic/Hungarian -- the same Jews that Arthur Ruppin, who "created Hebrew culture in Palestine," considered the undesireables (Ruppin, a committed eugenicist, preferred East European Jews -- like Ben Gurion, Begin, Netanyahu nee Milikovsky of Lithuania, and selected them for admission to Palestine).

  • Rick Black

    Ah, the truth is bitter for some of you to hear. Well take it and choke on it you hypocrites. The time will come when all your backroom shady deals of taking and killing people who have shared and help the rest of the world in what it is today. Your so called democracy is a neo-nazi movement, the only thing i see is Israelis hate for Islam and how they want to wipe out every religion but they're own and taking greed to the level that makes them blind to the truth. Fact is your so called "Golden Age" will never BE. This comment is for the extremist Jews or radical Jews

  • bigandytrini

    the new apartheid state

  • D Jones

    This video is deeply flawed in all its perspectives.
    The Torah, the Bible and the Koran ALL state that God gave the land of Israel to the Jews.

    To those who say that 'Palestine' is not the land of the Jews, I ask, "Then where is?"

    Europe and the rest of the world have made it VERY clear that Jews are not welcome on those continents.

    The video omits the facts that every war in which Israel has been engaged since it was reinstated in 1948 was in fact started by 5 to 7 of the 56 islamic nations which surround Israel. Apparently Jews are the only people who are condemned for the act of self-defence.

    As for 'reparations' to 'Palestinians', this should be done only when all the Jews from all the lands who have been killed, disenfranchised, and stolen from, are also 'repatriated' and given back their property.

    It is worth pointing out that nearly all of Israel's critics actually DO live on land taken from native peoples who have been murdered.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Give.me.FACTS.not.Truth Tesla Nikola

    First of all, What is "god"? What the hell are you referring to when you use such an empty word? If I say "that dog is intelligent." We both know that intelligent is an abstract term to describe the quality of the dog, but at the end of the day we both know and understand what a dog is. A tetrapod mammal that barks and wags its tale when it sees a human. But what is god??? Until you can answer that, you have the right and ought to remain silent.

  • http://twitter.com/babyinthebarn james kyle

    When you stop believing that the reference and the thing referred to are identical, you'll realize that god is not the same thing as the mental concept that signifies him; and you'll be free to stop raging against the word, and experience the reality.

  • maxim4444

    This film is ridiculously biased!!! Israel was inhabited by Jew/Canaanites over thousands of years ago. There were temples built by Israelites in Jerusalem long ago and evidence there shows this. You cannot deny their ancesteries claim to this land. The holocaust was just one of many persecutions of the jewish people throughout history where they were almost made extinct. The torture and genocide that happened then was beyond any aggression shown towards the palestinians its not even comparable. Jews have always been on the run being murdered and expelled from their homes and lands. They more than any race in the world deserve to live in peace in their homelands without the constant fear of attacks from palestinians or any other surrounding arab countries. Palestinians have a choice to live under legitimate security policies or migrate to endless arab neighboring countries. I do sympathize with any aggression made by Israelis to control their land but you will find that such aggresion was used by all western countries who today are not threatened by their existence as Israel still is till this day.

  • JUDISM8888

    firstly let me say that nomatter what you say i tell you right now that there is a God and that he is a Jew. how do i know this? well the people of israel let me know this because they are the only people who have not bowed down to the things that you the nations have bowed down too. things like worshipping the heavens or even a tree like your ancesters use to do before jewish christinity came and enlightened your people to the concept of one God. the truth is that you the world are afraid of a jewish world, its the only thing that really makes you afraid because upon its appearence you all know that your world comes to an end. jesus even gave you a clue to let you know that your end is in the future when he said our father who is the jewish God in heaven or if your jewish zion hallowed be thie name. only the jewish people have worshipped the one true God that is why we have not ever become like you the nations which is something you all hate about us because if we were like you then their would be no God.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=576260344 Moon Monika CH

    LOL :)

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000012388931 Yavi Ore

    No "ethnic cleansing" ever took place pre-Statehood, nor afterward. The Zionists, in their seeking to create an independent Jewish state, were faced with many enemies on all sides and from within. Moreover, as maxim4444 states Jews have lived in that land before it was a British mandate, and I am not referring to the Biblical era or even the Roman era. Jews have lived there throughout the medieval era alongside Arabs in peace. However, when Zionists decided to return en-masse and reclaim statehood Arabs took to arms and tried to annihilate the Jews and lost, As a result, they were expelled and surrounding areas occupied so as to protect their new-found State.

    Similarly, Zionism cannot be termed colonial in any means whatever. Colonialism denotes a conquering of land to gather its resources, whether it be raw minerals to be used for processing or the peoples to be used for slavery or cheap labor. This was not the case with "Palestine," as is evidenced by the fact that it was an inhospitable, barren land. Much capital was poured into pre-State Israel to drain swamps, build infrastructure, and make the land hospitable. Clearly, it was a mission to create a homeland rather than conquer and exploit.

    While apartheid may be said to exist today in the state of Israel (which is untrue), it did not in any way exist pre-Statehood. Even after the War of Independence and the Six Day War, Arabs were permitted to live within the state of Israel. The West Bank and the Gaza Strip are chosen strongholds for self-styled Palestinians. The Israeli government permits this because of intense pressure set by the international stage. Otherwise, they would be living within the state, in and among the Israeli principalities. Today even, this so-called apartheid does not exist, except in the imaginations of uneducated peoples that have a lingering and latent hate for world Jewry. Arabs continue to live within the State of Israel; it is only those "Palestinians" who live in the Gaza Strip and West Bank who are imposed upon restrictions. Much like the Jewish ghettos of the medieval era, this was a self-imposed segregation, and only later were chains and locks put on the city gates. This is an enemy of the people, of a people's sovereignty, and of peace and humanity. The wall must stand, and the people who support the terrorizing of others and inflicting a residual terror on their own deserve to be under State-imposed restrictions.

    In short, this "director," "documentary" filmmaker is an uneducated, biased, apologist and for a cause that needs no apology, especially not from a non-Jew, Israeli, or Arab of any kind.

  • musbcrazy

    what a surprise all the stupid pro israel people commenting...and ill put money on it now theyre stupid american zombies!

  • rzabsko

    Jews made up only 2 percent of population of Palestine at the beginning of 19 century, and then only 10 percent of the land belonged to them in 1948 - so the ethnic cleansing were inevitable in order to create Great State Of Israel. This cleansing is still going on. Palestinian have lived there long before The Sionists started coming there and expelling innocent Palestinians from their houses. Learn history silly ignorant!

  • crzysht777

    Well, keep in mind Europe caused the holocaust, of course the Arabs should pay for Europe's mistakes.... Duhhh! Makes perfect sense! Maybe another powerful regime should go in and expel the Jews from Palestine for shits and giggles....

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mahdi-Hajizadeh/1496199581 Mahdi Hajizadeh

    Yavi Ore, Firstly I'm not pro-Palastenian or Pro-Israel, I'm Pro-democracy, and do not think the occupation of Palestain should end as it is far too late for that and that was only possible in the late 40s, however regarding your "statements":
    ews did live in the country and the region, pre Islam (for the last 3000 years-ish), many of whom converted to Christianity and islam subsequently. So in effect a large portion of the ancestral jews are the current Palestinian arabs, and the only reason they are punished is their ancestors choice of integration into the local society as opposed to their racially and religiously discriminated counterparts in Europe.
    The European jews did not emigrated en-mass they invaded in mass which they had no right to do so as Europeans, they were not expelled at any point in their memorable history, they were born in Europe, same as their ancestors. The jewish state was an ideology, to sustain power and prevent their discrimination in a region were jewish people had lived fairly peacefully for 2500 years!
    finally there is no doubt about the israeli investment (same as British in India, and making the world England) in the country and their brilliance in almost all aspects of science and politics.
    As with Palestinians choosing to live in a over crowded and cramped with no access to the outside world, well read the sentence again and you will laugh at the idea!
    The state of Israel is a Jewish democratic state and as with any religious "democratic" state, the priority lies with the religious part which must be protected at all cost (personal experience as you may guessed from my name!) A true democracy is where the majority of the population choose a leader (leaders if parliamentary system) in a single state, choosing the best person for the job. This is impossible in Israel at this point in time due to a variety of different reasons:
    1. As a two state system (with factions in the arab state) the people will aim to get the most powerful party in power which would get things done (Hamas), which leads to the creation of a circle of violence, as neither side can work together, yet the results are still a democracy (small flaw with the democratic system)
    2. As a single state system the best leader(s) without a doubt will be predominantly Jews (both due to their experience an education), however this creates a paradox as the majority arabs will never again trust the jews not to be discriminatory (same reason why the american president is always Christian).
    3. The circle will continue until a secular system is formed with a multi party system where jews, muslems, chritians.... integrate in parties based on similar ideologies (liberal, conservative...) and run the country in a way which benefits the masses.
    And this is how bring peace to Israel!
    Enjoy

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mahdi-Hajizadeh/1496199581 Mahdi Hajizadeh

    Firstly I'm not pro-Palastenian or Pro-Israel, I'm Pro-democracy, and do not think the occupation of Palestain should end as it is far too late for that and that was only possible in the late 40s, however regarding your "statements":
    ews did live in the country and the region, pre Islam (for the last 3000 years-ish), many of whom converted to Christianity and islam subsequently. So in effect a large portion of the ancestral jews are the current Palestinian arabs, and the only reason they are punished is their ancestors choice of integration into the local society as opposed to their racially and religiously discriminated counterparts in Europe.
    The European jews did not emigrated en-mass they invaded in mass which they had no right to do so as Europeans, they were not expelled at any point in their memorable history, they were born in Europe, same as their ancestors. The jewish state was an ideology, to sustain power and prevent their discrimination in a region were jewish people had lived fairly peacefully for 2500 years!
    finally there is no doubt about the israeli investment (same as British in India, and making the world England) in the country and their brilliance in almost all aspects of science and politics.
    As with Palestinians choosing to live in a over crowded and cramped with no access to the outside world, well read the sentence again and you will laugh at the idea!
    The state of Israel is a Jewish democratic state and as with any religious "democratic" state, the priority lies with the religious part which must be protected at all cost (personal experience as you may guessed from my name!) A true democracy is where the majority of the population choose a leader (leaders if parliamentary system) in a single state, choosing the best person for the job. This is impossible in Israel at this point in time due to a variety of different reasons:
    1. As a two state system (with factions in the arab state) the people will aim to get the most powerful party in power which would get things done (Hamas), which leads to the creation of a circle of violence, as neither side can work together, yet the results are still a democracy (small flaw with the democratic system)
    2. As a single state system the best leader(s) without a doubt will be predominantly Jews (both due to their experience an education), however this creates a paradox as the majority arabs will never again trust the jews not to be discriminatory (same reason why the american president is always Christian).
    3. The circle will continue until a secular system is formed with a multi party system where jews, muslems, chritians.... integrate in parties based on similar ideologies (liberal, conservative...) and run the country in a way which benefits the masses.
    And this is how bring peace to Israel!
    Enjoy

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mahdi-Hajizadeh/1496199581 Mahdi Hajizadeh

    The "cold war" between Israel and Iran is just a struggle for the dominance of the middle east. Israel imported their megalomaniacs from Germany, and Iran, well they are born that way!

  • Nalliah Thayabharan

    Zionism was created by Theodor Herzel and others at the end of the 19th Century, and in that era it was commonplace to be colonialist, to be racist, to be super-nationalist, to adore the nation-state,so the idea of France for the French, Germany for the Germans, and then some state for the Jews. This all formed the basis for Zionism.
    Zionism and Judaism are contrary to each other. Because Judaism is universal and humane, and Zionism is exactly the opposite. It is very narrow, very nationalistic, racist, colonialist, and all this. There is no "National Judaism." There is Zionism and there is Judaism, and they are completely different.
    Zionism has nothing to do with Judaism. Because Judaism - a Reform Movement- that is highly, highly ethical. And so, you cannot connect Zionism with "highly ethical." You can only connect the words "aggressive," "oppressive," "stealing," "robbing" with Zionism. But not "highly ethical."

    “Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves.” Menaheim Begin, 6th Prime Minister of Israel.

    Does this narrative sound familiar to you? Think Nazi

  • jrMonroe74

    What many seem to forget is that Hitler was "jewish",his grandfather was Barron Rothschild,his grandmother became pregnant while working as his servant in Vienna.Stalin was 1/2 "jewish". Theodore Rosevelt was who's real last name was Rosenfelt was jewish".Winston Churchill was an English "jew" himself. Hitler was quite possibly the greatest thing to ever happen for the zionist jew's. Without ww2, there would never had been a state of israel for the zionist kazar's to rule from. It was an agreement between the English Rothschild family and the Queen to hand over the land of Palastine over to the zionist "jew's" if he would fund the war for England.He not only funded England but funded Germany as well. Consequently, most so called "jew's" today over 90%, have no semetic blood whatsoever, they are "kazar's" from Russia, so in truth they are the anti semetics for slaughtering their true semite neighbor's. However these kazar's chose to become "jewish" simply as a faith, as many European neighbors then had picked up the Christian faith and were slaughtering their pagan brothers by the thousands. Zionism is a disease that has claimed the lives of every land these sick kazar people have stepped foot in. The German people had taken these people in, had given them refuge and were deceived by them, after ww1 it had become apparent, so apparent infact, that a nationalist fervor had started to stir inside of Germany.They had fought off Communism/ Marxism ,and knew that it was a Kazar jew who was responsible for the Bolshevic revolution that killed over 60 million Russian peasants manly women and children and wiped away forever the Royal Russian family. Anastasia Romanov being the only one to survive, "so it is told". Now in America we see the "jewish" ran private bank called the "federal reserve", who was placed in power on a vote in 1913 when now Congress was in session because it was a holiday. We have all been railroaded by these parasidic kazar zionnist's.Even their own, some as you can see have spoke out, most read their hate filled talmud and believe that all other people should be killed or used as slaves as they are goyim aka, "cattle". They won't tell you this to your face as they are cowards and skilled in the art of deception.

  • jrMonroe74

    I am probably talking to a kazar impersonator who is not even semetic by race, but what the hell it's fun. No one is scared of zionism, not the muslim's, or Christian's, or anyother people you have parasidicly fed off of. We like the Russian's and German's are sick of you and your usury system, much like Christ was in His time sick of you.As he so eloquenly stated to your Cannanite ancestor's, "You are not of My Father,but of you're father who was lier and murder from the beginning".If you really get to the root of your sick talmudic child molesting bible and into the Illuminti zionist movement you will learn that you're movement is for the fullfillment of your "messiah" lucifer, the so called light bearer.No I don't anyone is "scared" of you or your depraved messiah, just waking up to your lies, and ready to run your ass to your maker a little early that's all.

  • jrMonroe74

    The 12 tribes of Israel left Palastine long ago.The Cannanite "jewish" Roman historian Josephus wrote about their migration into Europe to join their "brothers". He discribes them as "tall blonde and with a feirce look". Sadly many people believe that the remaining Cannanite races living there now are of the tribe of Judah, but they are of Cannanite origin who were Israel's enemy at that time, and still are,apparently.In 721 b.c. the tribe of Judah had been inslaved by the Babalonians,and the tribe of Israel had left long before this time, at that time their were many Cannanite's living amoung them.The Babaloninan's called them all "jew's". The Cannanite "jew's" at that time wrote thier bible which is called the babalonian talmud, which is a filty disgusting book discribing the laws of child molestation for children under the age of 3, to the rape of none "jewish" women as ok in god's eyes, because they are "goyim" etc., which means cattle in heb, do the research. Why do you think they hated Christ so much? He was obviously not their Messiah he had told these Cannanite Pharasee's who claimed to be of the tribe of judah many times, "You are not of my Father but of your father. They have a sick religion and have been ran out of every country they have lived in not because they are poor pathetic jew's who everyone hates because god loves them, but because they bring their sick anti goyim, money usury, child molesting, lieing trash with them every where ever they go. They now occupy somebody elses lands who were driven out after ww2 by the British. They are sending other "goyim" Nations to go slaughter these people in the name of peace. Any of this sound wrong to you? Anyway I hope you learn some history of these Russian Kazar's, you call "jew's".

  • jrMonroe74

    That promis ethat you speek of was broken after they broke god's laws and again let these Cannanite mixed people into Palastine,they were destroyed first by the Babalonian's in 721 b.c., then enslaved again by the Romans. After Christ was crucified His people left Palastine for good.The Roman historian Josephus wrote of this and discribed them as tall blonde and with a fierce countanence. These people who claim to be "jewish" do not sit around reading the Torah they read their bible which is the Bablonian talmud.What's worse is that 90% of these so called "jew's are not even semetic at all! At least the Arab's have claim to be there as well as th Iranian's etc. they are from there,these so called jew's migrated there and had that land given to them after it was taken away from the remaining people these so called jews are slaughtering.It doesn't sound very Christ like to me.Anyway's my point is that these so called "jews" are decendents of the Kazar people who lived in the south east region of Russia. Their King declared their faith to be "jewish" latter when he saw their Russian and German neighbors taking up the Christian faith.Before that they had no religion whatsoever. They in fact used as mercenary soldiers for hire throughout their previous history.Learn about Adam Weishaupt,Karl Marx,the beginnings of the Illuminati and about zionism, and see how they have manipulated our nations into wars for their gain,of a one world order where their soon to come messiah will reign in what is now called Israel. Just like Christ said their father truely the devil!

  • jrMonroe74

    At least you understand that the so called "jew's" are not of the tribe of Judah but of Cannanite origin. The same people who hated Christ then and now, along with anyone who has either not adopted their hate filled religion, or of their Kazar or Cannanite mongrel race.Good job.Zionism is a luciferian movement and thier babalonian talmud is like reading the sick mind of a childmolesting satanist.Well the time will come when people will get tired of killing eachother for their gain and the communist zionist socialist democratic mind set will be crushed and people will once again be sovereign but with a renewed respect for themselves and for others.Woe to those who try to have led these lies and forced them onto others!

  • jrMonroe74

    Not going to happen Commie Socialist!People will fight and this time it will be against those who are and have been reponsible all this time to bring about their luciferian utopia.Not sure how far down the rabbit hole you are, whether you are a mason or zionist or communist but the all believed and have worked toward your one world order to be ruled by the so called coming "jewish" messiah.We all know who that will be, if not read revelation.Anyway the people will wake up and humanity will defeat your luciferian one world order!!Sovereignty is the answer,the only answer,for all of humanity! Leave me alone and I won't have to kill you.That's the way it should be for everyone.Nationalism and sovereignty,a beautiful thing!!

  • Nalliah Thayabharan

    Zionism was created by Benjamin Ze’ev Herzl and others at the end of the 19th Century, and in that era it was commonplace to be colonialist, to be racist, to be super-nationalist, to adore the nation-state,so the idea of France for the French, Germany for the Germans, and then some state for the Zionists. This all formed the basis for Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionism.

    Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionism and Judaism are contrary to each other. Because Judaism is universal and humane, and Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionism is exactly the opposite. It is very narrow, very nationalistic, racist, colonialist, and all this. There is no "National Judaism." There is Zionism and there is Judaism, and they are completely different.

    Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionism has nothing to do with Judaism. Because Judaism - a Reform Movement- that is highly, highly ethical. And so, you cannot connect Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionism with "highly ethical." You can only connect the words "aggressive," "oppressive," "stealing," "robbing" with Zionism. But not "highly ethical."

    The Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazarian Zionists hijacked governments, currencies, big business, institutions, education, media and minds; got all of us in debt, then collapsed the economy.

    Greedy and ideological Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionists contributed to the growth of the Third Reich via the so-called “Transfer Agreement” – a business arrangement to transfer German Zionists to Palestine. In return, German exports would be bought through Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionist entities to ensure the economic growth and wealth of Palestine. Most significant is the success of the 18th Zionist Congress to go against the international boycott movement by suppressing the Revisionists and strong-arming them into abandoning their ideology.

    If the boycott had prevailed, Germany may not even exist today and the Holocaust would have never happened.

    The facts are clear that Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionists made Hitler’s 3rd Reich possible and ultimately spawned the Zio-Fascist and terrorist State that Israel has now become.

    Israeli Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionist leaders continue to indulge in the persecution of Jews by falsely claiming that Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionism is a goal of Judaism. It’s time to make a clear distinction between Judaism and Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionism, also known as Zio-Fascism.

    Menakhem Vol'fovich Begin (Menaheim Begin), 6th Prime Minister of Israel said “Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves.”

    Does this narrative sound familiar to you? Think Nazi.

    The Jewish people has been unique by its identity as a religious entity. Through the centuries its religious character had been a premise agreed upon by Jews and non-Jews alike. Jewish religious and traditional history bears no aspect of racism. Hence, one of non-Jewish origin is capable of being proselytized and attaining the same status as a born Jew. Conversely, one of Jewish birth who does not recognize his being bound to the Jewish Torah, is by Jewish law a heretic, and therefore forfeits his spiritual birthrights as a Jew.

    Through the many years that Jews resided in the Holy Land enjoyed tranquil and cordial relations with the non-Jewish population there.

    The Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionist movement which was formed at the latter part of the last century, sought to endow the Jews with a nationalistic character which was heretofore strange to them. It sought to deprive them of their historically religious character and offered a nationalistic ideology and the possibility of establishing through political media, a Jewish national homeland.

    During the period of the British Mandate, the Balfour Declaration, which recognized the eventual possibility of founding a Jewish national homeland, in Palestine, was affirmed to be the British government. The Jewish Agency, who then was the Chief representative of Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionist interests in the Holy Land, was entrusted with the issuance of visas to the Holy Land, thus resulting in an increased Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionist immigration from various parts of the world, which ultimately succeeded in superceding in numbers, the veteran Orthodox dwellers.

    Orthodox Jewry all over the world and the Orthodox Community in the Holy Land in particular, immediately sensed in this stage of Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionist success, the threat of grave danger for the religious future of Jews. The Arab inhabitants began to exhibit open hostility to their Jewish neighbors. The British government failed to distinguish between the Orthodox community, who for generations in habited the Holy Land, and the newly arrived Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionist immigrants.

    With the acquisition by the Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionist nationalists of the power to organize communities in Palestine, they formed the Vaad Haleumi Leknesset Yisroel (National Jewish Council Committee). This committee ignored the rights of the Orthodox veteran dwellers who did not recognize this validity of Jewish nationality, and whose identification as Jews was solely with their loyalty to their religious heritage. The religious inhabitants, on the other hand, shuddered at the prospects of spiritual disintegration of World Jewry, with the new rise to power of the Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionist nationalists.

    The Orthodox inhabitants actively objected to being subject to the authority of the secularists. They appealed their cause to the League of Nations, who consequently granted them a "Right of exclusion" to the subjugation to the Vaad Haleumi, which rights provided that any Jew wishing not to be incorporated into the Vaad Haleumi, may remain lawfully independent if he so stated his wish in writing. Thousands of Jews did so.

    Such was the case until November 1948, when the United Nations finally sanctioned the establishment of a Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionist State. Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionists' success in finally realizing their goal was due in great measure to their having misled the world into viewing the Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionist cause as the Jewish cause. The formation of the Illuminati Ashkenazi Khazar Zionist state resulted in the automatic deprivation of the autonomy heretofore possessed by the Orthodox inhabitants of the Holy Land.

  • http://www.facebook.com/krimsonk Krimson Knwati

    The comments below are brilliant. Great thanks to all those who shared their information with the rest of us. It is becoming quite clear by now that Zionism is a racist agenda that is ultimately harmful to both Arab/Muslims as well as the Jewish people. I think the contested land of Israel/Palestine should be renamed to Canaan and become a dwelling place for ALL ABRAHAMIC RELIGIONS: Christianity, Islam and Judaism. Of course, Zionism AND Pan-Arabism should be dismantled if we expect to achieve this.

    Cheers from Syria, and respect to the People of the Book: fellow Christians and Jews

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Stefanie-Germanotta/100002510806554 Stefanie Germanotta

    It amazes me how even after the treatment of the Jews by the Nazi's, they have not learned anything. They are treating the Palestinians the same way they were treated during the holocaust. Only you cannot say that out loud lest you be branded an anti semite.

  • Efritt

    The story told in every house in the middle east for decades, except in most Israeli houses.
    Thanks

    Edit: by the way, these war criminals are still held as heroes in Israel.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=740488620 Salam O. Jibrin

    HOW DARE YOU!!!!!
    I doubt that you are syrian, because of your cowardness to accuse the real criminals. A real syrian would know better! Real Syrian men don't put their head down, and you sir have lowered your head so low, i wonder how you didn't break your neck.

    I am Palestinian, and i think those ideas you should keep to yourself habibi, who are you to decide or to even negotiate on behalf of Palestinians??? "if we expect to achieve this...." WHO ARE WE? WHERE YOU IN GAZA???? ARE YOU R*TARDED? when did it become WE??? ITS PALESTINIANS ONLY !!!! Our be-loving neighbors looked at us for 60 years like we where insects with not even the decency to cut political relations with israel, and now you watched a couple of videos and documentaries and it is suddenly "WE"? who are you and what claim to the land of PALESTINE do you have that you want to erase the autonomity of my country( what the war-mongering zionists actually left from it), did you lose any of your loved ones there? so now, we should just live happily ever after because you feel like it? people like you should just shut-up. Palestine will remain Palestine, not palestine/israel , it is not us who conquered and systematically brutalized and destroyed another nation, it is the zionist war-machine with its stupid slaves like yourself that did. so NO NEGOTIATION on the future of Palestine. and no my dear ARAB brother we don't need your wonderful ideas because Palestine has it's men, and real palestinian men know that we didn't resist 60+ years of war so that you come and just piss on our country, and dream about peace with the real terrorists, if you want give them a land in syria and rename it im sure you can since your highness is talking about dividing my coountry and renaming it. you are just plain st*pid. you keep your utopian dreams for the nighty-night in your sweet little bed ok? I bet you if you lived in gaza you would have another idea about the future.

  • Smellme

    Now I know why Hitler do what he does to the Zionist Jews. Jew destroy Palestinian and Hitler destroy Jews. People intellectual understanding are not evolve much.

  • Btizzo47

    You go, Palestine. God be with you.

  • Heec

    "Now I know why Hitler do what he does to the Zionist Jews. Jew destroy Palestinian and Hitler destroy Jews. "
    the causal link is WHERE?
    People intellectual understanding are not evolve much."
    Neither does your intellect
    Let alone yr language skills

  • Heec

    Have to say that very much agree with your feelings of outrage

  • shanpeit

    It is very sad that so many of God's chosen have jumped on the Zionist Satan train. Exploit, undermine, steal, deceive and murder the masses on a grand global scale. Is it acceptable for a Jew to do whatever they want to a Gentile? Is this being taught in Hebrew school? How to f**k the Gentiles? Is that a way of life? A religion? It does say in the bible that God can turn a rock into the descendant of Abraham. So why the exclusion of accountability? Everyone is supposed to look the other way when a "certain group" of people do very bad things.Why?If you look at the biggest scams and the richest people with the blood trailing behind all of it...tells quite a revealing evil story.

  • shanpeit

    Satanic Synagogue=Zionism=hijacked Judaism. Why? To gain protectionism and support from the non Jews claiming to be "Christians." You cannot be a true CHRISTIAN and Support Satanism/Zionism.They are not reconcilable. Yet many "Christian" evangelicals will not expose the agenda of these Zionists that call themselves "Jews"...yet they know the truth.Fear..yes. They know these Zionists control everything. They also know that these are not "regular people." These people worship Satan. Satan tempted Jesus and said if Jesus would worship him and bow down he could give him all the kingdoms of the earth. Jesus refused and said his kingdom was not here on earth.These people have been given special powers based on their worship of Satan.Riches and power is theirs' here on earth. However, when they die they will be in hell.I hope they repent and change their ways and ask for God and Jesus to forgive them while they still can. Hell is real and those people that are worshiping Satan for power and riches, for their own souls, should renounce Satan and ask for Jesus and God to forgive them. Hell is terrible...it is not worth it.I pray for JESUS to guide me and use me for his purpose. Amen.

  • shanpeit

    Your commentary was right on. Not A jumbled, disorganized flight of ideas trying to delineate a point. Is an action right or wrong? Period.

  • shanpeit

    You win again. Roy has a distorted biased sense of reality.The truth is that right and wrong are not complex concepts.

  • shanpeit

    Roy your pretty white for a person who's ancestry stems from the Middle East. You might burn in that hot sun. Better move back to the Khazarian mountain range where your ancestors came from.That's my assertion. You won't burn as easy in the colder climate. God is so amazing he gave people melanin in their skin in varying concentrations so they could metabolize the sun's rays according to their NATIVE geographic location. Your skin is a testimony to the truth. Go home back to Europe.You look more like a German rather than Jew.Those fabricated DNA results aren't reliable...the Zionists' got to them. HHHAAAA HAA

  • shanpeit

    You definitely are not a real Jew. You are demonstrably not that smart or organized in your thought processes. More flighty than anything I'd say.

  • Roy

    Hi @shanpeit.
    No problem. good idea. Me and my fellow Israeli Jews of European and Arab decent are just waiting for the many states of the world which we were kicked from to evacuate the current residents who are occupying our property and land in Germany, Iraq, Hungary, Egypt, France, Morocco and many many other places. This is the only justice which is acceptable by your standards, no?
    Until that day comes, me and my fellow evil Zionists will remain here.
    Thanks for the advice tough.. you are a sharp pencil.

  • shanpeit

    Zionists usurp the Global Wealth via:
    1)Bribing politicians to sell out their countries behind closed doors via contracting to print fiat currency.(Essentially legalized counterfeiting brought forth through fraud,corruption,criminal activity between the politicians and ZIONIST GLOBAL BANKERS).Int'l ZIONIST bankers are going to a photocopier and pressing the print button.WOW! HARDWORK! WE can do it ourselves and not charge ourselves exorbitant interest or any interest for that matter!This is illegally contracted counterfeit paper.. leveraged against REAL ASSETS ..LABOR COMMODITIES(people),GEOLOGICAL ASSETS(land and mineral rights)..(HANG EM' all for treason and fraud)
    2)Murdering politicians that will not be bribed
    3)Wall Street is a ponzi/pyramid scheme on a global scale. The ebb and flow is structured, controlled and determined by a handful of people who systematically steal labor,pensions, geographical assets.
    4)They own and control the majority of prostitution and drug trade globally.
    5)They own Hollyweird.(Hollywood)
    6)Controlling the Roman Catholic Church at the top of the strata.
    7)Partnering with the Queen of England to facilitate the enslavement and thievery of the people.
    8)Creating false flags to incite continuous fear in the population related to fighting the"War on Terror." This establishes a strategy for embezzlement of taxes and public monies to the ZIONIST AGENDA FUND as facilitated by complicit traitorous politicians.
    9)ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING THAT INVOLVES LIES,EXPLOITATION, DISHONESTY,HEDONISM,STEALING,SLAVERY and MURDER
    Why? No fear of the real God..Yeshua.No acknowledgement of Jesus as the messiah. The Satanic Synagogue spoken of in Revelation 2:9.

  • shanpeit

    Funny...kicked out? I do not see any apartheid or racism in this day and age against Jewish people in North America.I see self imposed apartheid.Why Hebrew school?Ukranians/Polish/Germans/Black people all attend the same PUBLIC school. Why was I told by my Jewish friends that a guy is not supposed to marry a Shitska= Blemish = Whore female Gentile? Really? Sounds racist to me.

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/4ZONFFM6MMJ23WP5TKFXNXZIZY Amir

    why Jews are targeting because they are hard-worker and want a piece of land for their safety from all over the extremist world. i like jews unity firm belief then others

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000060158724 -Hannibal Lector-

    What kind of Bull**** propaganda **** is this. Read a bible, Jews have been settled in Jerusalem for thousands of years and you're going to tell me they stole it from Arabs in the early 1900's. Yea and I have a bridge for sale!!!

  • intbydes

    What made it "rightfully" theirs? If the Indians came back and took over the United States and put us all in concentration camps because the land was rightfully theirs, which it actually was, would you be so sanguine about it?

  • intbydes

    Something you don't want to accept is not the definition of a lie. Can you say exactly what you are referring to and then prove it false?

  • intbydes

    You don't know where to start because you really can't come up with anything. Otherwise, start at the beginning and list the lies. Not an interpretation of facts, but the actual misinformation that you see in this documentary.

  • Firangi_paani

    If jews have the right to Israel because the bible and Torah says so then the whole of African gold and diamond mines belongs to me cause my early ancestors originated from Africa.

  • Firangi_paani

    If one looks at history and the world today its clear that one country excelled in the policy of divide and rule,be it creating a rift between India and Pakistan or the Palestinians and the Israelis,or the sinhalese and the tamilians in srilanka ,the British policy kept its old colonies in a constant state of war.

  • http://www.facebook.com/luisrcr Luis R Ribeiro

    "The Zionists, in their seeking to create an independent Jewish state, were faced with many enemies on all sides and from within."
    "firstly let me say that nomatter what you say i tell you right now that there is a God and that he is a Jew. how do i know this? well the people of israel let me know this because they are the only people who have not bowed down to the things that you the nations have bowed down too."
    Funny, the pro-zionist posts only give more credence to the documentary... if they really wished to advance their cause, they'd be better off keeping quiet.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dave.lum.50 Dave Lum

    This Video is plain terrible Goebbels like Neonazi propaganda.

  • http://twitter.com/azwebmama Linda Samuels

    Yes, wouldn't it be loverly if Jews just left the planet. It would make so many Nazis, Communists and Moslems so happy. Of course, the middle class and democracy woud die with them, but what's a little inconvenience like world upheavel?

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/KUSK7PMSEAPWULA2ID3YCGZYXA earlp

    You are so wrong. The Jews didn't give us democracy, the Greeks did. The Greeks also give drama,comedy, and philosophy. The only thing the Jews of old left was a stupid books of myths. The Jews are racist , it's in their DNA, and they aren't very democratic. What passes for democracy in Israel is nothing more then favoritism for their own tight group that excludes outsiders. The world would not miss the Jews. Jerusalem isn't the center of the world.

  • j prasad

    you have lost.

  • Faisal

    this doc is so true...

  • anna miller

    How would Americans feel if invaded by another country, because god told them to do it? Directed and written by an Israeli Jew, this doc explains what really happened in Palestine after the fervor of Zionism,
    created the state of Israel based on ancient scriptural texts.

  • Ron Neil

    Vlatko,

    I contacted the creator of The Zionist Story several years ago when I saw his "Story" on youtube. At that time, he gave me permission to make the video into a DVD. I did.

    Please, consider adding a link to the Project site, DollarDVDProjectLiberty (dot com) as you have with a few others.

    Thanks,

    Ron Neil

  • borat

    i really don't know why you are angry. the guy said that both sides are suffering, and he is against zionism. he has offered his solution which is only his opinion. what is your solution: a palestinian state and the transfer of all the jews back to europe?

  • RonNeil

    Great video.

  • Anthony Mustacich

    First of all, nobody is saying that the Jews should leave the planet. This video is not about Jews, it is about Zionism, which is different from Judaism. Zionism is an ideology and a system of settler colonialism. Insofar as the state of Israel is a Zionist state, we are opposed to the existence of an Israeli state. That is not the same thing as saying that "jews should leave the world or be eliminated" as you suggest. But the state of Israel, since it is based on settler colonialism and a zionist ideology, is an illegitimate state.

    Secondly, it might be true that Nazis want to see the jewish people exterminated from the earth, but for communists and muslims it is a lie.

    Lastly, to say that democracy would die with the jews is stupid. The people of the world want democracy, including the Palestinians - who are deprived of it and denied their right to self-determination. White people don't want democracy and neither do Zionists.

  • Sandler Ernst

    how did the native americans feel

  • Lois Vaughn

    I would like to thank the man who did this film. You did a good job.

  • Beth Lockett

    wow your comment was so well written until the very last sentence...so close.

    "White people don't want democracy and neither do Zionists."

    It was like you went from intellect to i*iot

  • pjoser

    earlp, chose your words wisely, there is a differeance between jews and zionists, as there is a difference between US citizens and christians, citizens of India and boedhists/hindus

  • CanuckDriss

    Great and courageous documentary from a courageous soul!
    One would have to be a moral coward not to recognise the injustice being perpetrated against a whole people. As the documentary aptly captured, it is mind boggling that the world is uniformed or misinformed about this!

  • prasad mall

    you are clueless, your favoritism theories come out of racist myths given to you by your parents... racist.

  • alaska99801

    A jew makes this documentary. People praises him or disagree with him but he's given the right of his opinion, with facts.
    I make the same documentary and i am called by everyone a racist. Really? Thats the way it happens. You see how you all are a little off your rockers. See how crazy that is?
    Lets take the US. Jews didnt make anything great here. How do they amaze power? By controlling the media and not allowing anyone that might disagree with their agenda to flourish. A company gets bought and sold in the open market. Once a corporation ends up in jewish hands, it will never go back to being sold to anyone but jews. Do the research if you dont believe. Libraries are still free.

    I can go on and on. But for the ones that are non jews and feel some sort of guilt and need to always defend a group of people that only think about themslves, lets just take it from the most basic, easy form.
    Would you all agree that humans, in general, are basically good? I do. Then, why have the jews lost their welcome in every country that have welcomed them? Dont think that saying or thinking about that is antisemitic or racist, those are real facts. Jews have been expelled from every country where they were welcomed before. Why?
    To believe the jews story is to believe that most people on earth are bad. Thats crazy. Only a neurotic people can come up with the idea of being gods chosen people.
    Going back to the subject, why have they been expelled from so many places?
    Think it over. Would god set up his own people for so much tribulations? Why would a god make his people so criminal? Just read the bible and pay attention. The jews in the bible loved exterminating others.
    Most of the stories in the bible are not original thoughts. Most of them are just re-writes of old, ancient stories, written with the israeli tribe point of view. Thats all. Why do people believe those things? Christianity, islam, both follow the god of abraham which is no more god than zeus of the greeks.
    The jews complex is large. Patting themselves in the back is their best asset. They are many, very intelligent, bright, people on the planet. They just dont go bragging about it to everyone. Just look at the discoveries that brought us to the 20th century. The jews seem to be overrepresented today due to a very strong educational purpose on their part, but also by diluting the pool of competing applicants in the US. Dont believe it? Go to your library again.
    But again, a great documentary can be made,seen, and shown in many places by a jew. Remember, neither you or I could do the same. We would be called racists. And that is the reason why jews end up being expelled from many countries. Dont get it? Figure it out.

  • thnkfryrslf

    Beth Lockett is right. Everything you said is impressive until your last sentence. If we can talk about people excluding their race or attributing certain behaviour to their race to the exclusion of other races maybe it would be a start for us to be talking about peaceful, intelligent solutions to HUMAN problems!

  • cookie

    The biggest bunch of propaganda bullshit nonscense!
    Problem with Israel and Arab/Muslim world is a RELLGIOUS ISSUE
    GO LEARN KORAN!!!! Hadith!
    Thank-god pretty much all Jews are out of Arab lands today, just look at whats happening to the Eastern Christians being butchered from all accross North Africa to Middle East...what happened to the "Palestinians" of Bethlham? (ps Bethlaham is hebrew..means house of bread) and Jesus...Yoshua was a Jew an Israelite NOT an Arab
    Please don't speak for Jews in Arab/Muslim lands, there was persecution since the day Muhammad the 1st muslim terroirst of 7th century Arabia existed...when he butchered the Jewish tribes of Arabia and took their women to satisfy his sextual appetite....after he torchered Rabbi Kanni and took his wife. 2 of his wives where Jews....the rest where given as sex slaves to his fellow musims
    Jordan was part of the Palestinian mandate and progroms all accross the Muslim world on and off way before the modern state of Israel was born. Its usually an uninformed self hating Ashkenz Jew (whos confused on their own identity) who makes these obserd and inacurate claims and knows nothing about Islam or Arabs....or what it means to be a Jew/Israelite/Hebrew. Furthermore Jordan was part of Palestina. Its 80% Palestinian same exact people as Jordanians...no difference. If they would only give them citzenship and treat them like human problem would be solved....but not the problem of musims wanting to dominate the world.

  • cookie

    Awwww and please KNOW that the VAST MAJORITY of Sephardic/Mizarchi Israeli Jews are STRONG ZIONISTS/ ISRAELI NATIONALISTS
    THEY ALLWAYS HAVE BEEN....WAY before the official zionist movment:)
    unlike the whitewashed confused Jew who created this nonscense documentary...they don't have any identity issues..
    and BELIEVE if they where in leadership they wouldn't have been as gentle with the so called "Palestinians"...Arabs...Terrorists...and this conflict would have been long resolved..long time ago
    PS..ANTI ZIONISM IS DISGUISE FOR ANTI SEMTISM
    LONG LIVE ISRAEL!
    Ps. Arab countries are wellcomed to take their "palestinian" brothers and give them citizenship rather thn using thm as ponds in their agenda to destory the state of Israel

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    The day that Israel wil give half of Jersualem to the Arabs is the day the Arab Muslims give Israel half of Mecca...

  • Catriona

    Excellent!