Mysteries of the Bible

Mysteries of the Bible

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Mysteries of the BibleUpheld as the literal word of God by some and a compelling artifact by others, the Bible has shaped western history for over 2,000 years.

For ages, it has provided a rich treasury of tradition, ritual, and mystery that has engaged scholars as much as it has guided the faithful.

After thousands of years of scrutiny and controversy, Mysteries of the Bible explores many of the greatest tales of Scripture.

Utilizing modern scientific techniques and newfound archaeological discoveries, Mysteries of the Bible reveals surprising facts and theories behind the legendary figures and fabled stories of the Bible.

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Loved
Loved
3 years ago

Unfortunately the issue is not just the Bible. Jesus, who is the New Covenant is the work around to the weakness of Scriptures, which are collections of testimonials of people, rather than simply God talking out loud. The testimonies are varied and some are street level witnessing, while others are inspired such as those authored by prophets.

dar
dar
6 years ago

well this will knock ya out, there are more than one god in your so called bible, the old test. had an angry war god who was a punisher and a warrior who killed in his own name, the new test., has a different god, loving without war and brutality, who gave everyone a choice, ya know, free will,, and in between those two test. are several other gods that even Abraham was worshipping until he changed gods, so yeah, I have a real hard time believing in such a book, it has been changed so many times over the centuries to appease those who are the heads a religion(s) an most religions tend to stay in that old test. and continue warring, they are appeasing their warrior god. there is no one god, if there were one god, then the whole world would believe that, but there isn't just one god, and no one god is better than the other, it seems to me that most religions do say that they focus on LOVE, that is the most common thing that most bibles I have been in contact with preach, it is too bad that not all believers of their so called bibles are practicing this LOVE, instead they are debating which god is the true one and condemning those who believe different from them, so choose to believe in loving everyone and I don't need a god for that!!!!!

Sandra Wilhite
Sandra Wilhite
7 years ago

There are no atheists in a foxhole.

stacie with a ie....
stacie with a ie....
11 years ago

mystery, or inconsisencies....its still gotta be better than "the voice" or any of those other s*upid reality t.v. crap that everyone seems to be into!

Lorna Kennedy
Lorna Kennedy
11 years ago

There is not a chance i,m putting myself through four and a half hours of this. Its pure muck. They are not mysteries, its just emphasising all the things that dont add up. Mysteries Ha ya mean inconsistencies.

nate_171
nate_171
12 years ago

belief in the end, no matter what ideas your faith dwells on is your God.

job38
job38
12 years ago

Regarding over the edge's original question 3 - How can I prove that evolution wasn't God's tool to make us.

I realise I haven't answered q. 2 yet but will come back to this if that's ok.

q.3. Answer.
A) The bible speaks about God creating the universe by speaking (not evolution) and only humans who were made in the image of God did he use tools to make (Adam - dust or clay from ground, Eve from Adam's rib) 'woman' meaning 'out of man' (image of God = things about humans which are characteristics of God's nature e.g. conscience, eternity, communion with God)

Humans are distinctly different from animals in this way. Animals are not made in the image of God but we are. God breathed into Adam and made him a living soul, he did not do this to the animals. That's one thing.

B) The bible speaks about that everything was perfect and good when it was first created.
Evolution speaks about death and dying as good way in which the fittest survive and death is needed so the genes are passed on, mutations occur, diseased creatures die out and the best reproduces and the world develops.

The bible says that sin entered into the world through man's disobedience of God and then death. Before this there was no death, disease, imperfection etc. according to the bible. So evolution = death before man, bible = death - by and through man (not before).

C) The bible speaks about creation in 6 days and a day of rest. 6 literal days??? yes, to say otherwise is to twist the text and insert gaps where there are no gaps. Also other places in the bible where this is referred to e.g. the 10 commandments refers to
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work..11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. Exodous 20 v 9,11.

Should we therefore work for 6 million years and then rest for 1 million. Not trying to be cheeky but some people who wish to fit evolution into the bible try to take this sort of line. Genesis says the evening past, the morning came that was the first day.

D) The whole message of the bible or gospel (the good news of Jesus Christ) - who is the embodiment of the revelation of God is that God made man perfect and our sin brought imperfection, separation from God, death, and his righteous judgement on Mankind. That is why we need a saviour to bring us back to a right relationship with God in which his justice and mercy are satisfied (and we can be forgiven).

If evolution is true then death, disease and imperfection are just part of process by which we climbed from the slime pit to civilised human beings (using a general term of civilised as we humans are often involved in great 'uncivilised' atrocities). If evolution was true, we would not need a saviour, God is removed from the equation and hey.... (to take a biblical quote) "every man did that which was right in his own eyes". Evolution should teach us that no rules apply, race to the top fittest gets there first, cheating accepted as cunning and intelligent. That means that those who are seen as weak - disabled, mentally infirm, those from tribal peoples who would not be seen as civilised could all be theoretically wiped out. But isn't that what some historical dictators have done and we all stand aghast at their actions (and rightly so!!)

This is why I do not believe that evolution was a tool used by God to make us. I hope what I have said is clear.

There may be other things I could add to why evolution does not fit into the biblical account of how God made us but its getting late and I need some sleep. I believe the bible is the word of God, it's his book written to us not our book to re-interpret and change because there are bits that don't suit us. The bible itself says that it is the word of God and that every word of God is pure and that as a whole it is preserved by God. Near the beginning, the middle and the end it has verses which say that no-one should add to, or take away anything from this book. If we say we take most of it but cannot trust the first few chapters in Genesis then how can we trust the middle bits or the end bits, or the bits about Jesus, or about heaven and hell. This would not be logical or consistent.

I hope my comments will not annoy people. I hope to answer the other questions of 'over the edge' later. sorry it took me a while answer 'over the edge' - life gets busy.

Just to say I made 2 other posts before this one and they have not appeared, not sure why. I had links to websites, would that mean they need approval before they are seen here. I never saved a draft of them or anything so hopfully they will appear later (one was about the water canopy and one about the ecoli) If they don't appear and you can go on creation ministries website and do a search for water canopy (whole chapter on it) and ecoli (shortish article on it). Will save me writing the posts again, if thats ok

job38
job38
12 years ago

Just to answer over the edge's q 1.
1. Where did all the water come from for the flood.
Genesis ch. 1v6-7 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

It is thought that this is speaking of a type of water canopy which God created around the earth. Interestingly it is thought that this canopy would have been protective and would cause people and animals to live longer. (Interesting that those animals in the fossil record which are the same as the animals we see alive today always seem to be bigger - just an aside).

In Genesis 7v11 it speaks of where the water came from as until this point there had been no rain but had mist went up from the ground every day to water it. but here in this verse when the flood came it says "all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened and the rain rained upon the earth forty days and forty nights."

The water therefore came from the canopy above the earth and from the fountains under the earth.

It is believed that there would have been huge volcanic activity and tectonic plate movement during this time of flood.

Nikita2012
Nikita2012
12 years ago

TDF is a treasure trove of new information and knowledge. first time came to know about the interesting woman in the Bible - Lilith and now am tempted to watch the whole documentary :)

job38
job38
12 years ago

It is said that science and maths produce facts which support or provide doubt about a theory. How can we rely on these figures - isn't it because we believe there is such a thing as a fact (rules by which our world is governed)

How can this co-exist in a world in which we also try and ask the question 'what is truth' and try to say that there are no absolutes, no ultimate rules which we should live by and no God who has put the rules in place.

Regarding evolution - the question should be asked 'were you there?' when a star formed, when a planet came into being? Have you ever seen macro evolution take place? 'has anybody seen any of this? no!!! They are not observable facts which can be proved or disproved by science but theories which have arisen from an 'interpretation' of present day physical objects and assumptions about how we find them in the condition in which they are in.

But these are not new questions. In the bible in Job ch.38 v 4 God asks the question of those who question him "where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding." Job ch. 38-39 is full of God asking man the questions about the world which he created to show how little we do know.

Who can truly say evolution happened cos I was there, I saw it.
Just because people don't believe in God it does not remove Him from existence. As you say facts are facts.

Vic Seay
Vic Seay
12 years ago

These episodes first aired on A&E in the early 1990's.

alwaysconcious
alwaysconcious
12 years ago

solomon was not responsible for the breaking up of the kingdom.it was his son's fault. not passing on the wisdom of his father..and not listening to the elders of that time. instead he mind his young friends and God did what he had to do as prophesy

Jaire
Jaire
13 years ago

Wow, how and why is it that on anything religious the atheists always make themselves present??? Is it not solace enough that you dont believe in the metaphysical that you must patronize others to fill a void. Now I am not religious but a I am a theist. It really gets aggrivating when someone or some people are arrogant enough to think that with our limited understanding of everything in exsistance that you can say this and that does not exsist. You must remeber a few things the lack of evidence does not disprove something and the evidence of something does not prove it either ( circumstantial) one must also regard the scientific tentant of Occam's razor when evaluating things. Also in the scientific realm many ppl forget about the unbiased part of the scientific method. Im just saying that the exsistence of god has not been disproven using the scientific method so one cannot say definitevly that it does not exsist.

Roc'abill Rocker
Roc'abill Rocker
13 years ago

"Love and sex"
It amazes me how far from the from the truth this documentary is. It starts off with the statement - Adam and Eve Lived in the garden of Eden, This is not true as the man and woman did not receive names until they were kicked out of the garden. Then they state "gods fist commandment was to procreate". When God commanded the opposite, "you can eat from any tree except from the tree of the of the knowledge of good and evil". Then it speaks of a woman prier to Eve in Ge 1:27. Have these people read the bible ?. The man and woman mentioned Ge 1:27 are the same man and woman that become Aden and Eve after they eat the fruit God commanded them not to eat later in Ge 3-. I have known others to make the same mistake so let me clarify. Ge 1 through Ge 2:4 are overview of the whole creation, including the creation of the man and woman later to become Adam and Eve. Ge 2:5 and beyond bring detail into the man and woman's fall be fore god, and the consequence of there disobedience. I do not understand how this got past the editors of this documentary , unless they are deliberately trying to cloud the facts

SamuelClemensHill
SamuelClemensHill
13 years ago

Hmm. Need to do more reading up on Lilith.

SamuelClemensHill
SamuelClemensHill
13 years ago

Gotta love Jack Perkins as narrator. The writing is pretty good and there is some balance in the points of view presented, though it would be nice to hear from a larger cross section of people from different (non-Western) cultures. Hardly ground-breaking, but still an enjoyable and informative documentary.

nicholas
nicholas
13 years ago

Faith, We believe in God do to faith. If you read the Bible, Old testment beginning to end, then the new testment from the end to the beginning, you can assmeble your own time line. Adam and Eve, weird,rather unbelievable? Yes, it is, until you see the time line and the information within it. Brothers, sisters, mothers come on get real, Thats not what the bible, or any other document says, a matter of fact.
Gnesis says, Man came from sand, Women came from rib. Along with the ages of Biblcial times, you find the humans lived much longer as well. Next you begin to look at the science of evolution. Whos to says that the sand that man was created from wasn't the very act of evolution: however SCIENCE proves itself wrong continually when it comes to the evolutionary concept. Furthermore, when comparing the animals in which we supposedly evolved from, anyone can read and see that even the smallest movements of organs, would kill humans instantly. So without reading the bible and studying its facts along side your science facts, you trult remain ignorant to the facts.

ryu
ryu
13 years ago

I cannnot understand how anyone can believe in god! But to each its own. They are just stories... Science will prove it soon enough i hope!
Too many religons with different gods and rules to live by, some religions can't eat certain things but yet it was all put here for man to use????!! Some religions get 4 wifes and infinite mistress?????? whaaaaa,for real???? Adam and eve ???? Abraham ???? Who raised them ??? Snakes ??? How do you make offsping with ur sister or brother/mother!!! After a couple generations ur gene pool should look like a 4 armed/4 headed dragon!!!! Maybe the stories would be more realistic if they elaborated a little more like.......
So the whole 6.???? billion people on the planet are related to adam and eve....

C'mon i heard better stories at my daughters birthday parties!!!!

I have never belived in religion and i feel quite content living here on heaven/hell....(what most people call earth)
its all what you make of your life, not where you go when you leave your body and mind, but what you did with it while you were here!
poop happens!! alot!!!
You think looking up at clouds or a statue will change or reverse the outcome??? Ye poor souls!!!!!

"Yesterday's are history/mystery, tomorrow could be the end of it all..... It's all about you, and what to do today !!!! -Ryu- p.s N.L rules!

WTC7
WTC7
13 years ago

Yavanna, you are back! That's great!

Yavanna
Yavanna
13 years ago

Thanks Vlatko that makes perfect sense.

Hesus
Hesus
13 years ago

Too many words here are now censored. Sadly you guessed right. Stup1d people are so easily offended. *sigh*

Yavanna
Yavanna
13 years ago

TY Hesus
why is r3tard3d scrambled to r@#$%^&*? Is english not allowed here anymore or are the "r3tard3d3d" getting upset by apt description?

Hesus
Hesus
13 years ago

... loving personal relationship with reality. LOL Welcome back Yavanna!

Yavanna
Yavanna
13 years ago

Wow , its amazing how little things change. OK I hope to settle this argument...........

Apologists........ go back watch these "documentaries" again - only this time every time "God" is mentioned substitute Santa Claus. When Angels / Demons are brought up substitute with Helper Elves (presumably the evil version too just for balance)

Now after that take a big deep breath (preferably whilst under water - survival of the fittest and all that ...) AND... just feel for one moment or three how perfectly r@#$%^&* you sound to people who have a loving personal relationship with reality.

Dimorphic
Dimorphic
13 years ago

Ice,

Well, yes if you say you are Jewish then you MUST be religious, since Judaism is in fact a religion.

Your Equivalence of American = Christian is incorrect since American is a nationality, and Christian is a religion.

Kurrrt
Kurrrt
13 years ago

Read about any angel's in the news paper?
Any new information about heaven on cable TV news lately? Did anyone locate a place called hell yet?
Do you expect to see your dead relatives alive again? Jesus? The second coming all ready missed 4 wars.
Only pathetic full grown humans could be presented such nonsence then share it as truth. Whats wrong with the focus on humanity, that we need such a non-existing entity and reigning orthodoxies? Evolve all ready.

Kurrrt
Kurrrt
13 years ago

Once upon a time, one of this earth's earlier scientists pronounced, or enunciated, or he told a story, which was somewhat reasonable, of a flood, and of all the animals of this earth saved, as species, in a big boat. Perhaps the story was not meant seriously by its author, but was a satire upon the ambitious boat-builders of his day. It is probable that all religions are founded upon ancient jokes and hoaxes.
Other records of Noah and the deluge indicate stringing rafts together loading available herds as a massive pre-warned great storm of the era was building it's momentum.
Ancients often used exagerated phrases in comunicating along with writing supernatural fictional stories. Then believed truth today. Dan Brown's novel "The Bible Code" an un-truth taught in industrial churches as some truth.
Bible language transfer mistakes now moves into it's new generations of believing mistakenly written words. Since the following herd witnesses no real God, more convincing selections from the Egyptian bible was copied to the first bible and passed down to the second for the new followers of the herd. As so for today is the existence of the slavery of man saved by the bible. It's the ones who brought you a hell are the same ones who make you believe in a God.
Ancient script does not in any way deliver a positive ethical message that has significant pragmatic consequences for human culture in 2010.

David
David
13 years ago

Genensis is not the very beginning. God and the Word created the angels first. When God and the Word created earth and the galaxies the angels rejoiced. A third of the angels where put on earth with lucifer in charge. Everything was not in a continual state of decay like our world/galaxies is now. The angels, spirit beings, had power to create, and were to finish the earth, so to speak. But lucifer let vanity over-take him and he corupted this 1/3 of the angels. This coruption took how long no one knows. The beginning that is in genesis explains that the earth was covered with water, opening up the question, did God flood the earth twice? Once in Noahs time, and perhaps the 1st time to wipe away what these corupt angels created. Did these corupt angels create the dinosaurs and anything else that's older than 6,000 years? Can this explain why every now and again some funky creature is found, that could have survived these floods. Well now that 1/3 of the angels, and lucifer, spirit beings, that we can't see, are still here. And because Adam/Eve ate from the wrong tree, everything changed, everything is in a state of decay, and God is testing man to see if he can do the right thing. Unlike the 1/3 of the angels that failed. Which brings me to the meaning of life- God wants to duplicate Himself. That was why He created the angels, and that is why He created us. Example:The Word was made flesh, Jesus. Then after crucifixtion became Spirit. This model is what is to happen to humans that want to follow Christ upon His returns. We will become spirit beings, or the other option is the lake of fire, snuffed out for good. There's no forever in hell. Most of what I have explained can be found in the bible if you know where to look. The dinosaur part is speculation on my part.

ralphlo
ralphlo
14 years ago

god is imaginary people..y waste so many words

Ice
Ice
14 years ago

So if someone proclaims they are Jewish they MUST be religious?

Is that your understanding?

Does that also mean that if someone someone claims to be an American they MUST be Christian?

It is of no benefit to assume anything.

treelo
treelo
14 years ago

An assumption about faith? Terribly sorry, but when someone (read: you) proclaims they are Jewish it tends to remove any guess work. I guess you've just perfectly highlighted how people will ignore the truth laid bare before them when it suits their own needs, thanks for that.

The revised figures you give fit with the second Diaspora even better than the original 100-150 years that I was taught a few years back. Again, you have my thanks.

Ice
Ice
14 years ago

Don't ya just love those that attempt to educate the educated?

Funny how one can make an assumption that people are blinded by "faith" when there is no evidence presented that they actually have "faith" ... in anything specific ... or anything at all.

By the way, treelo, the time of when the gospels were actually written has been whittled down to be a lot shorter than the 100 to 150 years that you state above. If I recall properly, the new guesstimates are any where from 40 to 70 years after the crucifixion.

treelo
treelo
14 years ago

It's nice to see supposed theologians blinded by their own faith.

The Bible is not a factual text, it is a compilation of oral traditions with heavily tailored documentation slapped on the end to suit the changing needs of the society it represented.

The Torah itself has nothing to do with Jesus, dealing with a period of history thousands of years before Christ and there is little to no evidence to support the claims found within.

The Gospels were written roughly 100-150 years after Jesus was supposed to have lived. Funnily enough, both sections of the Bible were compiled around the same time that the Jews were exiled from Israel, presumably as a means of keeping the faith alive and giving hope to the desperate people living through those times.

While you can argue semantics until Judgement Day, the context in which the Bible was written is where the truth of the matter lies.

It stands as one of the finest pieces of literature known to man, providing a much needed moral compass and source of hope to those who seek it. I would have thought you were all familiar with allegory though...

Oh, and Science is little more than a religion itself; a means of explaining the unexplainable and giving humanity a place within the universe. Time and again it has been proven wrong and updated. Until recently the only key difference lay in that science could be proven either correct or incorrect but with the recent addition of quantum mechanics and string theory, the line between faith and science blurs even more.

Ice
Ice
14 years ago

ez2b12,

You make assumptions about just exactly what I have or have not studied.

Yes, WE are god.

Does not the behavior of the universe itself fit the definition of "conscious"? ... or is it really all just "random" activity? And then, how could it be random if the behavior is founded on scientific law and principles?

The question of our existence, of religion, of "reality" is one that each of us must answer for our self. Whether people believe this or that is really no concern of mine. The differences of opinion and the facts that lead one to believe make interesting conversation. But really, do you expect that all people will come to the same conclusion? That will never happen.

Truth is what you make it.

Assumptions are another thing altogether.

Ice

eireannach666
eireannach666
14 years ago

Religion is just as bad as a conspiracy , only assumption based on limited information come about for a weak need to justify and belong.

Try science, its much mor efficient and fact-holding.

Why religion? it just cuts off your ability to look further.

ez2b12
ez2b12
14 years ago

@ Ice

I am a theologian myself and I have to say you have a some what decent grip on Judaism and Christianity. Too bad you didn't take time to study the older polytheistic traditions that they grew out of. Then you would see the logical pattern that the human construct of religion has taken through out the years. A self serving pattern bent toward helping man remove himself more and more form the natural world around him. Bent toward comforting man from the loss and pain that is reality. A system of control that redefines itself over and over to fit in with the existing data. Soon we will redefine God again, we have to- we have been to the moon and seen earth form outter space, we understand DNA and cloning, tera forming, and quantum mechanics. We will keep redefining god until we realize the truth- we are god,We always have been. I am not god- and you are not god- but we, all of us together, are god. We decide what happens next. Its just a choice. No hard work- no savings of money- no school and books- no grand new technology- just a choice. Just a choice right now, between fear and love.

khadijah
khadijah
14 years ago

"The Execution Of Jesus" 42:40 HUH?! Jesus was taken up to Heaven and sat at the right hand of God? I thought Jesus was God! How can God sit next to Himself?

I am repelled by the concept of God being so incapable of forgiveness and empathy that he required the torture death of of His son in order to allow believers to be saved!

Islam is a religion of success. Unlike Christianity, which has as its main image, in the West at least, a man dying in a devastating, disgraceful, helpless death.
Karen Armstrong

Faith
Faith
14 years ago

Son of Man means to be half-god and half-human(according to the bible, there is only one).
Messiah means anointed one(according to the bible, there is only one). Both titles refer to Jesus-christ. In the bible, the beginning of Genesis talk about probably two or more gods "Let Us..."(Polytheist), but from Abraham, it became One(Monotheist). If God created all things by his word, why can He saved by his words also? but sacrificing his son? since his word is powerful. It says also in Genesis,"After God created all things, He saw that everything was good", so where evil came from? since He knows the future.
None of the holy books will reveal the truth of things to us human because the truth was concealed from us for generations. Just to let all of you know, the gods created us in their images, but after they created us, they were divided among them because some wanted to rule mankind and mankind had to worship them, and others wanted mankind to be free of mind and become like them. Now mankind is confuse, not knowing what to believe in to.

just brousing
just brousing
14 years ago

I don't find this documentary informative at all. Different views don't add up to truth. People have to come to an understanding with a "free" mind. Then, look at a religious ceremony, in more than one community. I was drawn by God, not told to be anything by anyone.

alphafemale
alphafemale
14 years ago

Shalom Ice. I agree just about 99% with you. There are some Hebrasims that have some folks in confusion, however I believe only The Lord can open the eyes, or cause one to study to become aware of these. Love to all & I am at least pleased so many peoples have taken time to see this documantary.

Shalom.

Ice
Ice
14 years ago

This is correct:

“there came with the clouds of the sky one like a son of man” = (equals) “someone came with the cloud that looks like a human being”.
In other words, Daniel looked up and saw a person in the cloud. A Semitic idiom, son of man, was used to describe what Daniel saw.

And so is this:

61But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?

62And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

63Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?

64Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

And what he meant by the "Son of Man" phrase is exactly as He stated here. And the Priests knew exactly what He was saying. This verse demonstrates that the phrase "Son of Man" is directly referring to the "Messiah".

He came unto His own and they knew Him not. Do you honestly think that they will accept Him as the Messiah? I don't see how prophecy could be fulfilled if they would have. And to this day the Christian Jews are a very small minority.

You claim that you just "read" and discover. I would suggest that you read a lot more and use a great many more sources.

BTW, I am Jewish.

Joe_nyc
Joe_nyc
14 years ago

Charles, of course you think ICE is right. That's how it's taught at most theological seminars. I heard of Daniel foretelling of coming of big J all my life from different preachers and I always wondered why Jews never accepted this fact. Once, I asked an Orthodox Hasidic Jew about this and he just laughed at me saying it's funny that Christians always believe what ever they want to believe.

Charles B.
Charles B.
14 years ago

Joe: Let me also research this phrase "the son of man" a bit more. My gut instinct is that Ice is right. Let's not loose sight of the forest for the trees! We have to remember that it's not just how we interpret the phrase now, but how it was understood then in Jesus time. Thank you for at least doing a little self-study in Daniel. That's more than most would do.

Peace.

Joe_nyc
Joe_nyc
14 years ago

ICE

And if you want a lesson on messiah let me know. It;s bit more tricky to explain because it had different meanings during biblical times.

As for my credentials I simply read and find out for myself.

Joe_nyc
Joe_nyc
14 years ago

ICE

Daniel 7:13-14

"I saw in the night-visions, and, behold, there came with the clouds of the sky one like a son of man (??? ??? [kibar 'anash]), and he came even to the ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. 14 There was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all the peoples, nations, and languages should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."

Let me make it simple for you.
"there came with the clouds of the sky one like a son of man" = (equals) "someone came with the cloud that looks like a human being".
In other words, Daniel looked up and saw a person in the cloud. A Semitic idiom, son of man, was used to describe what Daniel saw.

Daniel 8:16-18

"I heard a man's voice (???–???) between the banks of the Ulai, which called, and said, "Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision." 17 So he came near where I stood; and when he came, I was frightened, and fell on my face: but he said to me, "Understand, son of man (??–??? : [ben-'adam]); for the vision belongs to the time of the end." 18 Now as he was speaking with me, I fell into a deep sleep with my face toward the ground; but he touched me, and set me upright."

It's even more simpler here. Gabriel is calling Daniel with a Semitic idiom, son of man.

Do me a favour and drop the arrogance. For too long religees used your type of misinterpretation to lie to the people.

Epicurus
Epicurus
14 years ago

@Ice, its funny you ask for someones credentials on something when you are making claims about history and physics (not directly but through claiming the bible as a credible source of information) what are you credentials in those areas? because i can tell you they contradict what your religion says.

on to something neat.

To be the Messiah one would have been anointed with what is described in Exodus 30:22-25.

* 500 shekels (about 6 kg) of myrrh
* Half as much (about 3 kg) of fragrant cinnamon
* 250 shekels (about 3 kg) of kaneh-bosm
* 500 shekels (about 6 kg) of cassia
* A hin of olive oil. (Exodus 33:22-25)

The focus here is the ingredient, kaneh-bosm (the ‘m’ is silent and only signifies a plural). It has been argued by Sula Benet in his book, “Early Diffusions and Folk Uses of Hemp”, that kaneh-bosm properly translates to Cannabis. He argues that the Hebrews used cannabis as medicine, and that the commonly accepted translation of calamus must be wrong since it is a marsh reed and does not contain the properties ascribed to kaneh-bosm.

any thoughts on the Kaneh-Bosm Cannabis connection?

Ice
Ice
14 years ago

So now Joe is an expert that claims that "man" in general will be led before the "Ancient of Days" and that "man", in general, will establish mans' kingdom which will never be destroyed... not "Messiah", mind you... "man", in general.

"Son of Man" in Daniels vision is accepted by scholars to be the Messiah, not "man" in general. Allow me to quote an earlier post:

Daniel has a vision in which he describes one as “The Son of Man” being led into the presence of the “Ancient of Days”. So “Son of Man” does not refer to His humanity as “Son of God” refers to His deity. The “Son of Man” is to be given all Glory, Power and Majesty. It also says of the “Son of Man” that His “dominion is a dominion that will never pass away. And His Kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.”

When Christ used the term "Son of Man" He was stating His claim to be "the anointed one", the Messiah. And the priests knew exactly what He was stating.

Yes, Messiah means "anointed one" but there is no clarification as to whether or not it means a "human". Originally the term was used for anyone with a "divine mission". In the First Temple period, Judaism was not a messianic religion and the term mashi'ah? did not have its later connotation... as you understand it today. [Mashiach: (mah-SHEE-akh) n. Messiah; The Anointed.]

There are many versions and languages of the Bible. I've seen a great deal of them. As a matter of fact, I have the NT in Greek and the OT in Hebrew... and a few other versions.

And where did you study to become such an expert that you are so willing to post your OPINIONS?? And your education in this field comes from where? I do not believe that you have had any formal education in this field. I have boxes of books, Concordance and Lexicons (which there is no room for upon my shelves) which have been of great assistance in my study and research over the last 3+ decades. But if you need "bible lessons" don't look to me, I study theology. But I could suggest some reading material if you like.

Joe_nyc
Joe_nyc
14 years ago

ICE

Messiah in Hebrew means 'anointed one(human)', preferably by their God. From which version of bible are you getting your info from? Or are you simply regurgitating what you heard?

Joe_nyc
Joe_nyc
14 years ago

ICE

In book of daniel 'son of man' is used to represent 'man'. Do you want me to give you specific verses and some basic bible lesson?

Ice
Ice
14 years ago

WTC7,

The two versions of Messiah are not too different people. It is two descriptions of the One Messiah... two agendas that He will fulfill.

Do you know what the "chosen people" were chosen to do or be? The "chosen" are set to be an example to the rest of the world. When they keep in His law they will be blessed and when they do not keep in His law they will be chastised. They are to be an example of His love and mercy as well as His righteousness and wrath. Maybe the Jews will not be "spreading the word" but they will definitely demonstrate the characteristics as cited above. And if those things hold true then isn't that a demonstration of the existence of Him?

And once again, you seem to ignore the fact that the First Christians were Jews. So your statement about the Jews being marginalized is more than just silly. The Word came to the Jews and a great many of them accepted the Word. And that is the beginning of Christianity. Do you believe that "Christians" were NOT Jews???

Your "common sense" isn't working very well. Your posts are a great demonstration of it. Your insistence to ignore the fact that Jews were the first Christians is one demonstration of it. Are you now going to argue that Jews were not the first Christians and that Christianity did not come from the Jews?

Your inability to offer a sound argument brings you to the only option you have left: name calling. You claim I am belligerent and arrogant? You claim there are questions that I can't or haven't answered simply because the answers given do not agree with your position.

Is it not arrogant to refuse to accept facts that clearly demonstrate a lack of understanding and knowledge? When your error is corrected do you not refuse to accept the correction? You say I have "attacked" you simply because I have told you to educate yourself because your statements clearly demonstrate a lack of knowledge?

I am not attempting to convince myself, or you, of anything. There are certain FACTS that missing from statements made and I have supplied some of those facts. That is all. If you want to be a non-believer - that is okay.

For those of you still wondering about the phrase "Son of Man", you will find it in Daniel. Daniel has a vision in which he describes one as "The Son of Man" being led into the presence of the "Ancient of Days". So "Son of Man" does not refer to His humanity as "Son of God" refers to His deity. The "Son of Man" is to be given all Glory, Power and Majesty. It also says of the "Son of Man" that His "dominion is a dominion that will never pass away. And His Kingdom is one that will never be destroyed."

This goes back to what I was attempting to explain earlier about the two agendas of the Messiah. One is the conquering Messiah and the other is the suffering Messiah that is "wounded for their transgressions". Christ has already fulfilled the prophecies of the suffering Messiah. Upon the fulfillment of this He is then given all Glory, Power and Majesty and will return as the Conquering Messiah to establish His Kingdom which shall never be destroyed.

There are a lot of puzzle pieces to be put together but you can only put them together if you do the research. This is my suggestion to you all: Do the research. Seek the Truth and ye shall find it.

Everyone has an "opinion" ... but how many opinions are truly rooted in FACTS?