Zeitgeist: Moving Forward

Zeitgeist: Moving Forward

Ratings: 8.59/10 from 170 users.

Zeitgeist: Moving ForwardA feature length documentary work which will present a case for a needed transition out of the current socioeconomic monetary paradigm which governs the entire world society.

This subject matter will transcend the issues of cultural relativism and traditional ideology and move to relate the core, empirical life ground attributes of human and social survival, extrapolating those immutable natural laws into a new sustainable social paradigm called a Resource-Based Economy.

Following on from Zeitgeist: The Movie, Zeitgeist: Addendum, Zeitgeist Movement Activist and Orientation Guide, Moving Forward reinforces and clarifies the information presented in those films.

It is done so in a crystal clear fashion beginning with an examination of the conditioning that shapes our behavior, moving on to the failures of the monetary/market system, it's resultant socio-economic collapse and finally, the transition into a resource based economy for the betterment of humankind. (if we survive)

Questions that may have remained following addendum are addressed and i find it hard to believe that people could attempt to "debunk" the ideas presented in this film. That would be akin to attempting to debunk science itself.

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714 Comments / User Reviews

  1. I be making mush with the mans about this film and tuning to wash and very nice to see. first off all the pictures are very nice and second off all i liking the sound. because is real you can tell it means something.

  2. It was great until you came up with your solutions. I guess it's true, the source of all problems is solutions.

  3. The Zeitgeist from Peter Joseph is an excellent work of deception. It's the father of all lies. As a gullible and weak youth I was drawn away from my Christian faith by this artful work of deception. Satan will draw out every trick in his book to deny Jesus Christ, as he is the father of lies and deception. I appeal to anyone who doubt's Christ to pray to him and ask him to reveal himself to you as our God communicates to his people.
    Satan works by imparting nine truths and squeezes in a lie in between that. It will be deceptively done that you will not know the difference unless you rely on Christ who is the truth and the only way to life. And please do not share this work and spread the lies.

    1. How can u call this deception seriously....All his films are presented and explained through logic and data accessible to anyone, you just need to get off your arse and go look at it for yourself. The Monetary Systems film is presented perfectly and if that didn't open your eyes i dont know what will. Look im not very religious but i am spiritual, i do believe in a higher power as well as Good and Evil...how u go about it is your own business though. The worst thing religion does is force its ideals onto others and socially exclude or shame the ones who dare think otherwise. I love how Christians claim RIGHTIOUSNESS yet they disobey a fundamental part of their own society's rule by Judging others. Particularly towards the Islaam faith. Again il state im neither and dont favor either but there's no doubt something created this beautiful place we call the universe and that being i kneel to because he is GOD.
      Try be a little more open minded towards the shackels society puts on us and you will be amazed at whats on the otherside. Pure knowledge with the free will blessed to use to go learn it. Use it, Love it and Remeber it

    2. Not surprised by these ignorant comments. Scared sheep that cannot think for themselves will always run back to their indoctrinated 'shepherd' no matter how false the actual safety that institution he or she runs to provides.

    3. U say Satan spreads nine truths and a lie... where is the lie in zeitgiest

  4. Thank you for the sensible critique. Me &amp my neighbor were just preparing to do a little research about this. We got a grab a book from our local library but I think I learned more from this post. I am very glad to see such excellent info being shared freely out there. kdfefdkeaedcedae

  5. The analysis of the complicated interrelated issues we face is very compelling. It's all presented eloquently, as is one solution "The resource based economy" which makes sense. I like the thought experiment about what would we do with new Earth if we were starting from scratch. What we need now is to find a way for people of goodwill, which is most of us, to get together and agree what would be a sensible way of organising things and how we are going to get there from where we are now. Change will happen. It will be uncomfortable, but it will be much less destructive with forethought and cooperation. According to Paul Hawken in "Blessed Unrest," there are hundreds of thousands of organisations across the world working to make it a better place. Perhaps a place to start on our journey to a better world is for people in these organisations to listen to each other and work together.

  6. Loved this film. They broke it down. I have to give it to the "Z" boys for trying. Personally, I think Planet Earth should get rid of humans. Why? You muthaF*&(*#S TAKE more than you need. And because of that you gotta go. Sorry.

    1. Don't you mean 'WE', rather then you? Unless you don't consider yourself to be human, or somehow are the only innocent one?

  7. This documentary was wrong, especially about the nature vs nurture argument. Do your own research, don't believe what u watch.

    1. The film was right especially the nature vs nurture.

  8. That's the spirit, lay it down to marxism and control when it's suggested that you (like me and everyone) will have to assume responsibility for the idiotic degradation of every single living system around us. While I failed to notice any mention of a global entity ruling the world, I do notice today that our governments fail us on a global scale as do we all on an individual scale. What would you suggest to address the plethora of issues that we already ignore if you regard the solutions presented in the film as a "marxist wet dream" ?

  9. The marxist wet dream of one world order.What they don't tell you is who is going to control the distribution and data flow.

    1. it is not a question of who. no person will be that which is controlling data flow in this system we advocate, we want to create abundant access to all people on this planet, not just a select few. you should also ask yourself, who is controlling it now? im sure i can name exactly where you, and most other people with traditional minded upbringing get their information.

  10. There is more that motivates people to compete and progress than money. The #1 motivation for progress is survival. Unfortunately, money equals survival in our society. If that weren't the case, perhaps we could focus more on our survival as a species in the long haul as opposed to just presently. I admire what is being said in these documentaries. However, I believe that the only thing that can possibly spark a revolution in our blissfully ignorant and lazy society is some globally catastrophic event. Like zombies. That's what I'm rooting for.

  11. Full automation, no requirement of physical labor, only a few percent of people are actually needed to do all the work, automated cars, 3D Printer, no money at all - we just need to add the warp drive to this and we are in the star trek universe...
    Funny world these people live in. Too bad reality is nothing like it.

    One thing that really bugs me is this: how would you have innovation in such a global planned economy? Because it seems to me that what drives innovation (both in nature and in economy) is competition. One of the strongest points in favor of our current economic system is probably the fact that it is highly innovative. How would you have innovation and progress in a system that is devoid of competition? That's not a trivial problem. You cannot assume that people will be magically as productive and innovative in your planned economy as they are now.

    1. First to liquid courage, yes star trek? When you were watching that show on the shiny box in the corner did you see them use those strange hand devices, i know madness right? Only a few decades ago that would have seemed impossible to talk to someone thousands of miles away on a handheld device, and yet i comment now on one. Foresight, intellect and innovation are what human beings have, although in your case you may be an exception. The history of mankind is change brought about by our ability to invent not by a system of competition, else all would be war and none cooperation! We are where we are today because of great men and women and thee actions of many fools. And you sir remind me of an old saying we have back home 'if you not part of the solution your part of the problem ' but again that for you seems a little harsh. For you appear to be nether. And second to Max Howden well said brother and remember that the eyes of the sleeping world are opening it may not be easy but it is happening now before our eyes, i guess education is key and i thank you for your help.

    2. It's called artificial intelligence. You and I have no idea how our advancements will change our world, but we both know resources are limited and poverty is increasing all around the world. You wrote this 9 years ago - last week an angry mob trashed Congress. People are becoming increasingly angry but it's not for the reason they believe it is.

  12. Hemp ought to become a standard for building, paper, medicine, etc.

  13. While the ideals of this film are great, it's simply a neo-tecno-socialistic system that's being promoted. It's akin to many esoteric and occult authors of times past who describe a utopian world society. This one is simply dictated by machines that work for us.

    A lot would need to change if this is to become a reality. First, the financial system would have to begin channeling their efforts into producing the technology suited for such a civilization. While I will never say it's impossible, my contention is that it's highly improbable. The system is embedded so deep.

    Essentially, the biggest problem would be that there would need to be substantial financial support to create a cashless society. Anyone see the issue there?

    On the flip side, as machines begin to take over jobs, people are unemployed, and more people are falling into poverty. If you want this technological utopia, something or someone would have to come into power to influence the entire world to submit to a new "system." Good luck.

    1. Change can only begin with you. You are the system, you are the society. Change your ways and society must change too. Look at how your food is produced and shop accordingly, look at the impact of your job, look at every detail of your life... is it life sustaining or destructive?

      Also as we get beyond our indoctrination by a system which is based on devious exploitation we can see that not only is money unnecessary, but a complete hindrince to real progress. The job senario is simply to force you to conform to that which is utterly unworkable, to keep you in order, the order of the order. Working 40+ hours per week is just stupid. If we co-operate well be free from long hours of work as we won't need all the latest gadgets, etc, we will live communually, sharing, experiencing together.

      It needn't be a utopian dream, but unless we willingly change, it will remain such and life for most will be endless struggle until the planet says enough is enough and we as a species are no more.

  14. I love to reality check US History every year after the 4th of July by watching this excellent series. Wake up people, and btw "Alturnative Electronics" anyone who doesn't advocate population control is reading the book of fairy tales. One planet, one organism - we either control our population or nature will.

    1. Alternative*

    2. I didn't make up his profile name, that's why it's in quotes Paul

    3. 1) You spelled alternative wrong
      2) Alternative electronics is a genre of electronic music

    4. "Alturnative Electronics" is his profile name btw - maybe try thinking before typing next time, read the history of the thread to understand the comments.... hello mcfly

  15. Big eye opener! People need to wake up for sure!!!
    It's obvious that modern day "money mechanics" has succeded by putting most beings on the negative path of "service to self". Firstly we should stop arguing amongst ourselves and produce productive opinion and conversation. Hopefully we can all become 'light warriors' and persue the positive path of "service to others"..
    Spread the love and light...peace

  16. great documentary. A lot of work needs to be done. The problem statement part of the movie is very clear. However the solution part does not sufficiently deal with "who will bell the cat".
    Looking forward to watch more such movies and if possible contribute.

  17. I thought it was a really cool movie too until I found out it that they advocate population control. you do see how they hit you with fear at the end to sell you on the premise.

    1. And this is why I think people need to stay away from certain conspiracy videos or at least try their best to fully understand an idea before claiming NWO or what have you. "Population control" is not inherently a bad thing -- you just have the negative connotation because of the multitude of fear mongering YouTube videos out there made by the likes of Alex Jones and company.

      It really depends on how it's implemented. Now I think you're getting the carrying capacity of the Earth idea that they mention in the documentary confused with eugenics and/or depopulation. Two vastly different things. Face it, it's in our best interest as a species to realize that there is certainly a physical limit to the amount of people that can live comfortably (keyword: comfortably) on the planet and we should do our best to acknowledge that. It doesn't mean totalitarian top-down dictatorship of who can and can't bear children but it means take into consideration the Earth and its inhabitants before you pop out 5 or 6 or 7 children. We may not be close to this limit now but if you do a quick study of population trends and understand exponential growth you'll see that things may end up getting questionable in the future. Infinite growth on a finite planet (in regards to anything) simply does not make sense, it's simply a fact and there's nothing malevolent about acknowledging it.

  18. I am about to watch this documentary but thought i'd go through the comments first and I found it interesting to read so many peoples passionate arguments about what they believe the source of violence and wars is, whilst they themselves where becoming heated and intolerant.. this could well be the new league of conflict in the future lol.

    Putting money aside (because its self evident beyond comprehension how redundant this system of greed, hierarchies and consumerism is) The problem is nothing but ourselves, we're quite often completely unable to accept others perspectives as we become too deeply rooted in our own beliefs which causes blind sightedness and anger. A saying I like that's in reference to this is, "rigidity causes fractures".. in other words (and this is just my interpretation) be humble and flexible in taking time to understand and accept yourself, your situation and especially your fellow man because this will untangle life in so many inconceivable ways. Only requirement is that you get over this little ego thing that we're all so prone to haha :)

    1. A perfect synopsis.

  19. this doc, is sickning of its truth. and that we all have fell for it for so long and some still do..
    great eye opener loved it, recommended it to the whole world..

  20. unbelievably great!!!

  21. This movie lacks engineering insight. 3D printers printing buildings? While being powered by solar energy? Wind energy? theoretical tidal energy? A 3D printer took 3 DAYS to print parts for a robotic hand(the size of a human hand). 3 DAYS. You know how much energy it needed to power those machines? You know how much energy solar panels produce? Wind turbines? Do you know how much energy is required to even manufacture those parts for turbines and solar panels?!?!?! But of course, with the right intensive, people will fill the holes in this unrealistic plan and produce the technology to make these plans a reality... PLEASEEE. There are plenty of engineering jobs, and most of the work force is about to retire. The problem is that Americans do not have the math/science skills to join the engineering industry. There are programs to encourage pre-college students (particularity from low income schools)to study engineering, but even with the promise of $60k+ job and a comfortable, debt free life, they aren't willing to learn the material.

    Once thing I noticed that was mentioned that is false. "the service industry operates with an equal rationale... the fact is there is no monetary benefit to resolving any problems which are currently being serviced. " Repairs is what drives engineering companies, an example being Hamilton-Sundstrand. The FACT IS those companies profit solely on repairs, and those profits may take the company up to 20 years to see (selling apu's causes them to lose money). Just wanted to point out one example of capitalism as described in "the Wealth of Nations", which explains companies can be kept in check as long as consumers are educated. The reason it takes so long for these components to break down is because no company rep is going to buy a crappy part for an airplane engine without being fired, so no aerospace company is going to dare design a crappy part. Also like to point out that materials are subject to fail when exposed to prolonged heat, stress and pressure. There is no magical working material that will last in your car engine forever without failing at some point. My point: design engineers are not all evil scheming bastards looking to destroy the earth and steal your money. (this argument in no way is meant to refer to the crap you can buy at ikea or low-price low-quality stores.)

    Part 1 was very interesting (however one of the speakers went back a forth quite a bit) part 2, eh, part 3... cross between New World Order agenda, Brave New World with a dash of the Terminator. The system is beyond repair, so start fresh on a new planet? Only need 3% of the population? Need a centralized government controlling all resources? Not that i'm against communism. Theoretical socialism and communism works as long as long as the people are vigilant and involved in their communities. Same concepts applies to a successful democracy. People NEED to be vigilant if they don't want to be screwed over.

  22. just go ahead and tell ur story
    ur INTRO is quite depressing
    urrrrggghhhhhh i can't stand it

    1. Hope you have seen it through, if not: that's a pity, because it is an interesting documentary, which is worth wile seeing! Reality can be quite depressing, but being an ostrich makes you suffocate after a while.

  23. ??????? Yes, 7 stars.
    The only documentary worth watching; everything else is an aside.

  24. It is missing method and need to control population to do this. (We aren't finding any new earth) One thing is certain, what we have now is doomed to failure as automation supplants the need for human labor and the population expands.

  25. God what a sophomoric documentary.

  26. This is one of the most myopic, ignorant opinions on free markets that I have heard in a while. These people are so hopelessly biased in there thinking that they refuse to let any new idea into their miniscule brains.

    1. Grammatically it's 'their' btw... I wasn't really feeling your comments so I clicked your profile and saw that you served in the US Navy...

      Now in my book that rules you out of any kind of discussion regarding social progression and makes your, "complete failure of intellectualism." remark seem slightly rich :')

    2. So you are saying a soldier or anyone who has been a soldier is antithetical to social progression?

    3. Well, one of the few essential beliefs a soldier must carry is a support and faith/trust in the institutions that govern him, which includes, not only the system of government, but (essentially for the soldier) its foreign policy, especially in the US, when many of the wars he will be fighting in will be/have been brought upon the enemy by his own government and not vice versa.

      No soldier ever joined the US army to go and install/support any government abroad that had differing interests to that of his own country's... He must agree with the spreading or at least maintaining of the existing structure of HIS society, else why would he join the usually offensive armed forces of a world superpower that is far from having war waged upon it? (conscription whilst under attack is different ofc)

      We speak of social progression in terms of an evolution out of this framework from within, how can a man that holds a soldiering position have an objective opinion inside a discussion concerning the removal of the structures he must believe in?

      I would hope any intelligent individual they didn't snare whilst they were still a dumb teenager would see through the propaganda, the system and therefore the mere tool of global social stratification that they would become.

      BUT I admit, a soldier might sign up, serve for some time, then be enlightened by some new information or have a personal realization that he no longer agrees with the structures he was fighting to preserve, which is fair enough and allows him some space to be redefined...

      In essence, an ex-soldier COULD fall outside of your proposed definition of being "antithetical to social progression", but the fundamental beliefs of men still serving would make it very difficult for them to propose any kind of radical domestic social progression so in a sense are antithetical to it, at least when defined within the context of this movie's discussion. (also apologies for all the masculine pronouns when discussing soldiers, I know it's not very PC but I'm lazy and it was quicker to type^^)

    4. Well so much for Sgt Major Ghandi I guess.

    5. Hahaha, how pathetic... Don't ask for a clarification of my comment, already having some idi*tic and pretty unimpressive 100 year old exception to rule prepared, as if that nullifies my argument in some way. How about you debate like a big boy and grapple with the actual points I made^^

    6. Well in one broad stroke you want to paint anyone who has served in the military as incapable of "social progression". You answered a man who tried to debate you as being antithetical of "social progression" simply because he served in the US Navy. You don't know this man. How can you make that judgement? For all you know he could have been drafted. Maybe he served as a medic.

      You judged this man. From your keyboard came condemnation without knowledge, dismissal without consideration. And you call this social progression?

      I asked for clarification because I really thought, if clarified, you would back away from such a position. But no, same closed-mindedness.

      Ghandi is not the only exception, perhaps the most noteworthy, but there are thousands, perhaps millions, of ex-military who are nothing but ordinary citizens who in every day life contribute to your "social progression" in a quiet, unheralded way. Yet you choose to belittle them without the first hint of who they are and what they do.

      If this is your idea of "social progression", I for one want no part of it. Shame on you.

    7. Sorry for the delay, busy busy...
      "You answered a man who tried to debate you" - Well, let me stop you there, he wasn't debating me, he made three successive sweeping and unsupported comments, which warranted response... YOU are the one who keeps trying to pin the term antithetical on me, and I gladly explained in more detail how the term you chose could or could not be applied to my actual stance. It also said he worked as a nuclear technician next to his being in the Navy, so no, he wasn't a drafted medic (I also said I didn't include conscripts/drafts in my clarification), that's how I came to make that judgement.

      My remark was actually fairly frivolous when typed, I saw his foolish comments, noticed he was in the Navy and questioned his position (as he was already baselessly saying people had "myopic, ignorant opinions") and don't pretend you asked for clarification for that reason, you were hoping I couldn't clarify, looking forward to posting your weak Gandhi example. Considering your second reply I doubt you even considered my argument. You have failed to express your stance on the core points that I made, and in those points you would see that it wasn't so arrogantly closed-minded, but weighing the contradiction between what many would feel is necessary ideology for the profession and how that contrasts to the person supporting the removal of those very beliefs. Do you disagree that a serving US soldier (outside of those humanitarian medics or drafts you speak of) must support the social/economic hierarchy of the US?

      As far as, "millions, of ex-military who are nothing but ordinary citizens who in every day life contribute to your "social progression" in a quiet, unheralded way." We are not talking about the same social progression, you are confusing the progression of time spent helping to continue the existing system with progression in the sense of improvement - they are different things. As I said, somebody may well serve then have a change of heart, which is great, but sit the average US marine down and ask them if they're pro-USA, a nationalist... Then ask them if, by being superior in every societal health marker, is Japan 'doing it better'.

    8. Wow the amount of people who correct and judge the poster on simple grammatical errors this site makes me cringe lol. People who do that are usually on the lower end of the IQ spectrum and have self esteem issues

  27. If you think this video explains a lot, you are a small minded m*ron.

    1. Small minded? HAHAHA WOW... that's a little ironic don't you think? Someone who refuses to see even the smallest truth in an idea opposite from theirs, that is the definition of small minded...moron.

    2. Truth? Funny thing about "truth". When some one tells you he has the truth it is that person who closes his eyes to all else- not the skeptic.

    3. Can you please stop bad talking this documentary because of your lack of understanding of it. Not only are most of them doctors, but they are professors at the most prestigious ivy leagues colleges on the planet like Harvard,Yale and Stanford, but they are experts in the given field in which they spoke. I'm not the smartest person in the world, but at least I don't make the mistake of calling scholars m*rons..

  28. Sorry wrong movie. My previous post was meant to go with the first Zeitgeist movie.

  29. The movie gives many examples of why Jesus is not real. One being that he was born on December 25. Which is simply sun worship or part of the zodiac. The early organized church decided what day jesus was born most churches today do not suggest that Jesus was born on December 25. It is however the day we celebrate his birth. Maybe we should stop if it has created a block from people getting the oportunity to learn more about him. December 25 was however chosen by people more specifically the early catholic church for the reasons given in this movie so Christianity would allow for celebrations to occur on the same days as they had always had celebrations and rituals. This is a very simple an known truth even in many Christian circles and organizantions. Here it is changed or twisted by givening just the information that suits the author. So then I must ask how much more of this movie operates on the same mode of operation? This movie uses the same techniques as our very bad Christian leaders have done on the past. Truth is diffcult in this time when our culture media is full moral relativitism and extremism/fundementalism. But it can be found if you look.

    1. It can be found in the Book.

  30. Most unrealistic with it's hypothetical clean slate and has a hidden agenda for a one world order.

    1. no my dear. its not new world order. there is no basis for control in a moneyless society that declares all of the earth's resources as the common heritage of all people. and absolute stupidest thing for the 'nwo' to ever do, would be to ever pursue automation in order to phase out jobs. if people are free from labor they have nothing but time to protest and dissent against any abuse measures pushed on society. this approach removes the basis for domination and control, and educates everyone on the ridiculousness of ever submitting to another claiming power over others. and its not clean slate at all. but it acknowledges what sociology tells us, that people are highly influenced and shaped by the culture they grow up in. you're attempting to discount some very substantial research here. unrelated to zeitgeist.

  31. I think its rather conceded to say we made these advances because of a Christian society. Most of what your speaking of took place during the renaissance and that was a revival of greek ideas and the church even lost some power during that time to such things as the protestant movement. And when a discovery was made often times the catholic church tried to blot it out such as with Galileo. They put him under house arrest for the rest of his life. He he was lucky he was only spared because he had lots of high up friends. For your point about America only 1 of the founding fathers was actually christian and the rests were deists. The Constitution also is based more off the John Locke's ideas of life, liberty, and property than any biblical ones.

  32. The only possible and experimented way to make progress is the Christian society, which made possible the great jumps in human history. After Studying the history of Italy, after the fall of the roman empire (476 DC),and even considering the mistakes during the path, we can affirm that it was the wisdom of Catholic Church that injected the knowledge to allow progress. Even the discovery of America had its root in Rome...
    The current crisis is just a ethical and moral problem, the society is going down and nothing can stop this decline, even the best possible organization doesnt work without the right moral principles.
    The roman empire itself felt because of its moral principles crisis.

    1. Elefante999:

      Wisdom of the catholic church?? moral principles yet! I really do not know if you are serious or just trying your hand at trolling?

      I am lost for words! not really, but will let someone else completely refute that if they want.

    2. And I suppose you find yourself qualified to tell us just what those "moral principles" are. I just bet you can.

    3. You have got to be kidding. The church or any religion for that matter is responsible for so many wars and misery, look at history books. You must be brainwashed.

    4. And the Khmer Rouge? The Red Terror? Stalin's Purge? Atheist are no better; religion is not responsible for wars and misery any more so than anything else. War is inevitable with humanity, but not religion.

    5. WAAAAAAA??? Have you ever heard of idk? the CRUSADES??? you know the incredible bloody war that lasted a couple hundred years and was fought in the name of god? or the Inquisition? OORRRRR the Iraq war?? Maybe you have heard of that??? i mean we know that one was for oil but they told us the terrorist attacked us because of thier religious hatred for us so god was in the mix too. did you not see the part about non violent communities and how humans are not violent by nature but taught to be so by environment, i mean it was only an hour long so you might have missed it. im sure your the type who is easily distracted. I think religion is inevitable in humans cause we cant deal with reality and our fear of dead

    6. "war is inevitable with humanity"
      it's sad that you actually believe this. the only reason for wars in well over a century, has been money. WWI and WII were because of money. Vietnam was for money. Iraq and Afghanistan were for money. If there were no money system and no inequality, and no profit in war, do you really think we'd still be having them? War is not innate with the human condition. It's not human nature. It's a result of inequality.

    7. i was going to pick a bone but 99% is good enough for me,i think your understanding of nature needs a little brushing up,but wth as we are evolving who can be 100%.As Socrates said, a man that says he is 100% correct is not of this earth,this was meant in jest but not a lot know that Socrates was indeed a whit and made fun of others.Damn i will add a few more of the man from greece,never follow another man unless you are a fool.These words got him killed but in essence his words back then stated,you think that they know what they are doing but they only understand a little more than you,spend 2 days with them and listen close you will then realize they know the same as you but use different words.I would not suggest i could enter a field of bacterial growth experts and learn in 2 days ,but what he is saying is the men you follow are no brighter or have any better vision than you,never look up to another human just stand by there side.

      well i have another saying i have made,thank you chainsaw

      never look up to another human/person just stand by there his/her side.

    8. which war has the church been responsible for?

  33. This documentary is so well presented that it almost leaves no stone unturned as it explains how the money system fails humanity and the planet at every level. In reflecting upon the current state of world economic turmoil, if I compare it to a radioactive sinking ship, despite the fallout as the ship goes down, I think we should all be able to find some comfort in the sinking of such a ship, or system in this case. Rather than panicking and taking frantic action to keep the ship propped up, I think it's better to let it sink, deal with the fallout and then build a new ship. I would urge everyone, especially anyone who plays the game on Wall Street, to look at the picture as a whole and unplug from the game, rather than continue to finance it. Let the ship sink and the current captains who are at the helm, let them go down with it.

  34. Another point: Advanced technology is at a highpoint in all of human history. Are we any less violent? No. Are we any less ignorant of other human need No. Are we any more polictically cohesive and democratic? No. In fact less so! Is all this soley the fault of money ? No. Money has been around for as long as civilization, and much longer than John Locke's treatise. CIVILIZATION IS THE PROBLEM, with all its patriarchal systems of hierarchy and control. What then is the point of all this technology? Two words, socialization and control. Socialization of the populace to be orthodox consumers. Control of humanity and all of the natural world, the end of history, as it were. Just think about that next time you notice the security cameras that have sprouted up like weeds along American highways, on streetcorners, even in elementary schools! This is where expaning the technology grid will get us, more control. Why? Because complex technology CANNOT exist without a complex and extremelly controling bureacracy, or perhaps a technocracy with the EU. Case in point, modern day China, look at there engineering feats. Yet they have one of the worst human rights records in history. Germany in the 1940's was a veritable wellspring of innovation, they even developed and refined rocket technology during this time. Advanced technology cannot define or even be an integral part of a totally free and equal society, because it relies on social control for it's production and implementation.

    1. money itself isn't a problem but the thought processes that come with a monetary system. The idea here is to use the technology in accordance with our resource amount and not wasting our technology for things such as warfare, automobiles, aeroplanes and the like however nowhere will u see peter joseph or most other zeitgeist/venus project supporters that it won't take a very long time to implement and would actually would say that if it where to be implemented too quickly without all the things said that need to be put into place it would fail. It wouldn't take a form of governance but loads of like minded people working together to form it. Those atrocities u speak of occur from the thought processes prominent and actually beneficial in a monetary society. I have many more things I could say but don't like huge walls of text.

    2. Yes, but money is now the standard method in which they control the mechanisms of this patriarchal system of hierarchy. Like a parasite, money is attached to almost every basic survival structure especially in developed countries where people completely depend upon the corporations to provide their most basic necessities such as food and other energy supplies. Agribusiness is one of the most dangerous of the parasites. When they control the food production, which they are quickly gaining momentum on, small farmers everywhere are subjected to rigid rules in the so-called name of safety and will be harshly penalized (put out of business) over minor violations of "safety-codes". Just look at what is happening to organic dairy producers for simply selling raw milk and other raw dairy products. Then there is Monsanto and the threat they pose to subsistent farmers all over the world. This kind of control is all about money which also equals power which equals inequality and control.

  35. Although I appreciate the exacting critical analysis of this documentary, I do not see the practicality of it's final vision. A futuristic civilization of perfectly planned cities and infrastructure would take an enormous amount of resources and energy to construct. This energy would currently be fossil fuel energy, which will be declining in abundance more and more rapidly in the next decade. The technology required to build such elaborate infrastructure would easily take more than ten years to develop and implement! It would also take a system of governance which would control and define every aspect of people's lives, directing it all towards this effort before the hydrocarbon clock ran out. Plus, it would have to be constructed with the current system still running, which would only hasten the collapse. There is no way to instantly switch from the current system to a better one without many, many, people starving.

    That is why the only way forward is backwards! In other words, everyone that is able, should be buying and developing permaculture farms in the countryside. Each farm would be easily capable of feeding more people than the current system with positive effects on the environment and community (this is the model of permaculture). There should also be dramatic efforts to create community gardens and grow food in suburban backyards using similar techniques. There one woman in Portland Oregon that grows 70 percent of her food in a tiny backyard! This should all be done quietly and quickly, to avoid bureaucratic, "red tape" from the government. Protest movements should be focused on demanding land and resources to establish sustainable permaculture to feed the population. Once this essential resource base is established, it will not make much difference if civilization collapses. In fact, permaculture farms would be able to provide a way of life outside the city/technological infrastructure. This would obviously severely threaten the monetary system at it's foundation. Then deconstruction of civilization could be undertaken in earnest. I say deconstruction only, because civilization has always relied on control and hierarchy from ancient Babylon and Hattusa, to today. There is no need for civilization or money. They are both and always have been two forms of human organization that are destructive to the human spirit of community, equality, and peace.

    The bottom line is as follows. If people starve even for a short time, there won't be massive utopian like marches of sublime well groomed people. People, mostly young men, will grab their weapons and there be war and rioting. Look at what happened in Poland in the years before the Solidarity movement took off. There were food shortages and people could not fulfill their basic needs, plain and simple. Plus, these were people that had something to lose. The disparity in Poland will be nothing close to the poverty that full civilizational collapse will cause if the system persists. All wars, even at the early primate level are based on conflicts over resources. Namely, food and fresh water. Everything else, maglev trains, holograms, spiderweb cities, that's all window dressing. It's all a big waste of time and resources unless there is local sustainable food production capable of feeding most everyone. There must also be a system of values which promotes widespread sharing of those resources.

    Read, "Sepp Holzer's Permaculture", and John Zerzan's "Against Civilization" this is all you need to know to carry forward.

  36. The Zeitgeist Movement
    I have been asked by one of my acquaintances to render my opinion on the Zeitgeist Movement and while I will not berate anyone who believes in the lofty ideals that this group claims to promote, I question their pragmatism in attaining these lofty goals. If I had a magic wand that could make these things happen in the bold and revolutionary manner that they project, I would be inclined to wave it right now. I am no fan of the status quo, but massive, radical universal changes in society seldom if ever results in positive results. I am bereft of even one example in history where a populist Utopian group, which is what the Zeitgeist Movement is, has ever delivered a net positive benefit once their theories are implemented. To the contrary history is rife with many horrific, shameful, and grotesque abominations from those who promised heaven on earth.

    However, when you come down from the fuzzy emotional high of the Zeitgeist Movement Guide, the Where We Are Now, and the Where We Are Going videos you must soberly ask yourself, "What are the implications of this movements ethos?" Let’s take a look at just the first four…

    1. Conserving all the world's resources as the common heritage of all of the Earth’s people.

    How do we define a “resource”? How do we define “conservation”? Who will establish these definitions? What will be the manner in which conflicts will be resolved when someone disagrees with these very basic definitions? If I ask 10 people to define these things I will get 10 different answers. Ants do hive mentality exceptionally well! Humans do not…so well.

    2. Transcending all of the artificial boundaries that separate people.

    Again the ideal sounds wonderful, it is the implementation that gets messy. Which are “artificial” boundaries and which are “real” boundaries? Are the walls of your home a real boundary? One might say “No, you built that boundary.” While others might argue, “Yes, that wall is the boundary of your privacy to which you are entitled.”

    3. Evolving from a monetary-based economy to a resource-based world economy.

    This appears to conflict with #1, people spend and waste money like mad even in the most resource destitute nations on earth. Take a look at the Saudi family, the Sultan of Brunei, or the Cali cartel in South America. How do we “conserve” the “common heritage of all the Earth’s people” when those who have ready access to the resources decide they want to “over utilize” the resource while those who have little access to them. As an example, fresh water is not equally distributed around the planet. The Great Lakes are a vast wealth of fresh water, how do we ensure that people in sub-Saharan Africa are not cheated of their share?

    4. Reclaiming and restoring the natural environment to the best of our ability.
    First we must establish that humans are unnatural, otherwise anything that we do becomes by definition natural as well. I think termites are destructive and methodically wreck havoc on forests with machine like precision, but I would be hard pressed to convince anyone that they are unnatural. There is a vast and deep chasm between what constitutes ecologically responsible behavior and Neo-pagan Druidism.

    It seems to me that any one of these first four ideals establish the grounds for global warfare more than anything resembling the placid idyllic future the Zeitgeist Movement envisions. I don’t mean to sound pessimistic about the future of mankind, because I am not. It is said that the wise learn from their mistakes; however I believe that those we revere as brilliant remembered best the lessons of history and chose not to repeat them.

    I hear the Zeitgeist Movements’ visionary promises of efficiency, plenty, and equality. I see the Great Leap Forward and at a cost of 30 to 40 million lives.
    I hear the Zeitgeist Movements’ call to promises of efficiency, plenty, and equality I see the killing fields of Khmer Rouge.
    I hear them convincingly explain how they have finally figured out how we as a species can all work together in freedom, peace, and prosperity… after 4.3 million years but how many times have we heard that before? The Sumerian, Macedonia, Egyptians, Persians, Chinese all had, at least for a little while, civilizations that were unparalleled and seemed sure bets.

    Even an illiterate nomadic boy from the steeps of central Asia devised a simple and highly effective plan for making us all one happy family and nearly succeeded. He mounted his horse in the east and as he rode west he (and 200,000 of his best friends) kill all the men and impregnate all the women.

    While we can recognize today through the perfect clarity of hindsight that all these great civilizations built their citadels using the blood of the conquered for mortar, this was not always the case. There were those few noble champions who came to do God’s work. Charlemagne brought the sword and the promise of redemption through Our Lord Jesus Christ to all his vanquished.While many say Mohammad never flew into or out of Jerusalem via angels, the opposition say the Muslims took Jerusalem by the will of Allah, but one thing is certain Godfrey of Bouillon made them give it back. Godfrey being renowned for his piety then demonstrated Christian love and charity by butchering tens of thousands of defenseless Muslims who had committed the mortal sin of surrendering to him. Hey… it was what God wanted, right? No… all was the acts of man, and man alone.

    Jerusalem and her inhabitants play the part of a political football with the score being kept in misery, privation, and death. After nearly 1100 years of overtime in this genocidal match the offensive play book is well known to us all. The Romans killed the Germans, the Germans killed the Jews, the Jews killed the Arabs, and the Arabs killed the hostages…and that’s the news. Goodnight. I do not see the Zeitgeist Movement bringing a resolution to this, even though their intentions may be as pure as the driven snow. One of our species long standing handicaps is that our GREATEST CAUSES lose sight of their affect. Whether this is the result of some endemic character flaw in us or ravenous egos gorging on their own success and fearing the return to obscurity, a more tacit form of neglect as we ride the wave of mob mentality, or maybe it is easier to be a monsters than to confront the suffering you have loosed upon those you only wanted to help.

    As I have said before I am not accusing the Movements rank and file or even their leadership of planning such atrocities or of clandestinely plotting global hegemony. If such machinations do exist within their leadership, I sat let them have at a crack at it. Their eventual downfall may illustrate my point and hopefully stand as a warning to others that those who disregard the lessons of history do so at their own peril and on average several million other human beings who had the misfortune to be caught in the middle.
    I have all he respect for their ideals, and their bravery for speaking out in a time when so many are apathetic the suffering of their fellow man. I understand their wanting to somehow fix these hapless, hopeless, and sometimes horrific creatures…we…Humanity. We are beyond doubt irrevocably broken at our core, but before they done the mask and surgical gloves to remove our afflictions… they should remember that far more important than the hope and promise of panacea is the duty to do no harm.

    As for myself, I believe that there are other less radical more prudent paths to that bright future we all seek. My paths are not as glamorous as the photos depicting the Movements vision of an ultra-modern archeology society. However, I feel confident that by virtue of being less radical experimental, and theoretical pose a better chance of success and moreover pose less risk that in our tinkering we do not , as Peter Gabriel would say, shock the monkey. We are very fortune, in that we have the ability to change when our survival depends on it. We are cursed because we rarely recognize when extinction is looming at our door. We are fools because we jump like to absurd action when Chicken Little shouts, “The sky is falling!” We are noble because as we have strived to lived boldly together on this unique pretty blue sphere, we envision a better place for those who will come after us, and then we will lay our burdens down, we return to the ground from once we rose. Therefore, since my time is short my efforts will focused on tangible returns that produce positive outcomes in the earthly realm of small judiciously chosen battles and leave the grandiose, epic and in my humble opinion ultimately unworkable or potentially harmful Zeitgeist Movement. However I wish them the very best in their bid to create the visionary world of The Jetsons.

    1. go to the venus project and zeitgeist movement websites they answer ur questions there relatively well in their FAQ section.

    2. Well said and well thought out. The truth is that utopianism is actually a denial of human nature. History proves this in every instance. How draconian and totalitarian would this become if it were ever to be implemented is anyone's guess. "Meet the new boss,same as the old boss."

    3. you should probably brush up on your anthropology, as well as everyone who has parroted the typical negative view of human nature. there have been many peaceful and egalitarian cultures that have existed. in fact the majority of human existence, in hunter-gatherer cultures were cooperative and peaceful.

    4. I simply must reply to this.

      First or all you are extremely well spoken, and eloquent in your delivery. I can appreciate at that for many reason I will not bother to elaborate on because they are not relevant at present. What is relevant however is your fatalistic approach to viewing the nature of unfolding reality in direct correlation to the road that has been traversed thus far. Arch Angel... I wonder.
      What if I was to offer that the model of current capitalism is a actually perfectly set up to transition to a Jetsons society within the next 20 years given a single individual with the innovation and wither all to see it through. Would the goal still be lofty and unrealistic? If say, someone with the resource allocation of Bill Gates decided that he would dedicate the rest of his time here constructing said super city would it still be intellectual fodder?
      In a capitalistic society, he/she who has the needed and desired product gets the money. She/he who has the money controls the resources. Whoever who controls the resources can shape those resources in any way they damn well please, if they have the constitution to do so. Given those very reasonable parameters, would it not be a reasonable to view such an endeavor as possible?

    5. Id!ot. You watch too many Sci Fi flicks. Too, too many.

    6. There's learning from history ... and then there's being hopelessly stuck in the past.

  37. Dear friends,

    Do not believe blindly in what you see and hear in this movie!

    Remember human nature never changes! Two steps forward, one step backward - this is the natural progress of life!

    The movie is trying to suggest us that the monetary /market system has failed! The internal combustion engine is not a perfect system either...there is no Perpetuum mobile ..but! Do we have to stop driving automobiles for that reason ?
    The monetary system is not perfect as the movie hints, but does it mean that we have to stop living our lives!

    Whatever times you live in, you have to adapt!

    And last but not least, do you believe that this is a non-profit organization!

    Best wishes

    1. WTF are you talking about, your rebuttal is full of holes

    2. I am saying that this movie is quite profitable in the current market conditions ;) namely capitalism. Just ask the owner of this movement, how much profit he makes! And imagine, such a movie would be unthinkable if there were no capitalism!

    3. where do you get your information from sir? please show your evidence to back up your accusation. peter does sell dvd's of the film for $5 if you want to purchase it and help him out with a very minimal contribution, but he still always makes it totally free to watch online. and no, capitalism didn't make this film possible. capitalism has made it harder to make this film, as a lot of the content that could've been used, is copywritten or intellectual property. theres no real basis for saying that.

    4. take an anthropology class. there have been many cooperative and egalitarian cultures, where people took care of each other and lived together like one big family. the human nature argument is so invalid, its ridiculous people still attempt to make such claims. but people like me know just how uneducated people that do really are.

    5. The monetary system IS failing, look around you. We need to stop using fossil fuels as a form of energy period. Sorry if you just bought a new camero or w/e, but combustion eingines are inefficient, outdated, wasteful, and harmful converters of energy. Life is horrible with the monetary system, and this alternative of a resource-based system sounds like what the next step in our evolution as a species will be( and i here add the obligatory "if we make it that far", isnt that sad). Anymore questions? Did you not watch the doc? Isnt it just common sense that a competitive society striving for profit as its ultimate goal can never work to further the society? Just vote for whoever and cheer when your team wins. Just don't cry when nothing gets better. Its your environment teaching you false values and spreading false information that i blame. I was that way too. But i do blame you in part because now that the reality you live in has been brought to your attention, you still deny what reality is. Sigh... I don't even know why i'm trying. Its the internet, and even if it wasn't i wont be the one to change your mind. Just try to look at the world for what it is, and look at humans for what they are in comparison to the rest of the universe. I want humanity to win. Thats my team. Thats my competition. We need to win against our selves and this awful system our ancestors created. This system we are too scared and too lazy to replace.

  38. the narrator is boring and all this stuff is obvious - he speaks to you like your an ***** lol
    The first movie is the best I wish I hadn`t bothered with this drivel :/
    How slow and boring is the narrators voice zzzzzzzzzzz

  39. this movie really changed my life.

  40. Started off well by outlining the human disposition and the problems with the current socio-economic paradigm, which nearly every political persuasion in my country-the UK- would probably agree with.

    Then unfortunately it gives its own version of how to rectify things. This was unfortunate due to

    - it's complete lack of understanding to how the world actually functions and what is actually possible
    - the logistics of what it is proposing
    - a complete misunderstanding (despite it's earlier references) of human nature and our fallibility and susceptibility to corruption
    - the complete lunacy a 'world' economic and social system that would leave a minority with unprecedented power (and hence corruption and abuse)
    - the ignorance of the failures of historical precedents that have attempted to create a similar utopia along similar argumentation about supply and demand (communism and it's catastrophic failure and deaths of 100's of million)
    -the ignorance of the majority of the world who would not want to live in a completely globalized economy & would want to retain their own way of life and religion/spiritual identity etc.
    - a misunderstanding of the 'human impact/teleology' on science and technology (what you choose to study, how you choose to study, how do you choose interpret your findings, how you choose to relate these findings to everyday life?). For example, Einstein and many other scientists contributions to the understanding of physical reality have lead to technology as varied as the computer chip & atomic bomb.

    To be honest, this seems like a modern day communist manifesto in disguise. Its propositions are those one would expect of an autistic individual. I am disappointed because it started off with so much potential.

    1. I agree with you completely!! Well put.

  41. Great documentary! As ironic as it is.. the beginning needs to start with money. People need to make a stand and invest in the future. If you could get some rich people or enough medium contributors together we could build our first Utopian Resource Based society. We could create some surplus of items to export as a whole community, in order to import entertainment, money for citizens to travel, outside educational material and save to build the next Utopian society and so on and so forth. Money is the worst thing in this world and shouldn't cause as much pain and distress to humans as it does. I wish for a future where enjoyment and personal growth are the fundamentals of life.

  42. people are greedy then end.

    1. nahh. there are many examples of cultures that show the contrary. it really just depends on the type of culture you're raised in and the behaviors they encourage. the orang asli tribe in the malay peninsula were so communal and cooperative in the way that they shared everything, they didn't even have a word for 'selfish' in their language. i don't see how that would be possible within your assessment of people.

  43. A great film and movement that is awakening millions. Very well composed and presented.

  44. i loved the film and is just waiting for the revolution. if it comes. and if it come. i am all in for it. the world with al its money hungry people, is not worth much. i hope so much that i will see the beginning of a change in my life time. or maybe mankind have already stepped too far in the wrong direction. i hope not.

    it has happened before. and yes ...
    in the name of Christianity, many died.
    and to build a new world. many will die.
    for they will not relinquish their present materialistic life.

  45. Well it doesn't really matter what u believe started the universe because u will always be left with the problem of what came before it. I just don't see a point to debate whether we have a spirit that pops out of our body and goes to a place we call heaven, hell, gets reincarnated or whatever other religions state (im not writing this as sarcasm). Although if heaven is meant to be a perfect place we in reality wouldn't be ourselves. Im not saying it isn't possible either, but i just see too many mistakes that a ''perfect' god wouldn't make (a ratio in things makes no difference to me we all don't look the same, act the same, grow up the same, and the human anatomy is actually not as good as u would expect from a "perfect" god that made humans in his image) and actually the bible contradicts itself in so many ways. U can say its just god giving us, free will, but that just sounds a little too convenient to me. About computer chips implanted in us if u actually watch the first zeitgeist it stats that this end (humans and robots possibly becoming one) is one that this movement would like to avoid. Now hopefully u watch the end part of the first zeitgeist movie as it states what our economy and society is heading towards. A global capitalist society. I know the format (in my comment) is crappy and a few things are unorganized but i think u can get what i am saying.

  46. In my opinion the 3 banes on society 1. Money / 2. Religion/ 3. the schooling system. Schools are patriot makers, money or any form of currency in itself creates many different problems i feel no need to deal with further as this docu explains that nicely, and religion bring about loosing the desire to discover and just giving and saying all is the work of a higher being (more to it but many documentaries here explain it much better than me for the space i would write an example , The Blind Watchmaker,and others from Richard Dawkins . No offence intended to anyone.

    1. I agree on all counts. All are key facets in the control system and are manipulated to promote their agenda. I do see a problem with trying to eliminate religion. While I think most religious beliefs, including many areas of science, have been molded in order to control, there is an underlying spirituality (not religion) in most belief systems which are innate in all beings. I think there is a more benign way of educating people by showing the evolution of religious dogmas usually at the hand of the controllers.

  47. genes from birth (unless u really want me to get much more in depth) the majority (not all) of them just make u predisposed (as opposed to forcing u to be) to different things and genes can change through a person's life and some of those gene can be passed on. The changes are called mutations, some can be good and beneficial for the species, while others can harm and sometimes make the species die out. Most (not all) mutation problems that occur can be straightened (not suggesting eugenics) through restructuring society, cities, and how all of that and we interact with the environment around us. And unlike what u said (fyi I'm pretty sure u didn't mean what i am saying here but just as an extra) pollutants and etc in the air can affect our genes.

  48. Who said anyone is going to put a microchip in u lmao and the bible doesn't tell u that, ur just trying to interpret the bible to ur own stereotypes. Explain to me what communist is in ur oppinions. Why would a human need to rule what we call a government? Why do we need money? What caused u to believe in god or not to believe in god and fyi i don't believe in god and i sure don't believe in heaven) . When people die they decompose and that decomposition helps to form new life so i have no reason to believe in an afterlife. Do u think there is human nature? Do u think humans are evil and what is evil? What is an abundance of something and are u sure we have an extreme shortage of water, food, etc? Just a few that i wanted to write to actually get an intelligent answer from people who oppose this and ones who support this and i may put more questions here later.

    1. You may not believe in God in a religious aspect... but look deeper into the very details and/or nature of our reality and you will begin to see that there is an "Intelligent Design", a Source which All Things come from. Research 'The Golden Ratio 1.618" ... this number is found in all things, from nature's elements, to plants, animals, humans, and even the greatest of things we build..."

      Aside from that, I just want to add that the world is NOTHING like it seems...

      Please do reply after you've looked into the Golden Ratio. Thanks.

    2. Some specific proportions in the bodies of many animals (including humans) and parts of the shells of mollusks and cephalopods are often claimed to be in the golden ratio. There is actually a large variation in the real measures of these elements in specific individuals, and the proportion in question is often significantly different from the golden ratio. The ratio of successive phalangeal bones of the digits and the metacarpal bone has been said to approximate the golden ratio. The nautilus shell, the construction of which proceeds in a logarithmic spiral, is often cited, usually with the idea that any logarithmic spiral is related to the golden ratio, but sometimes with the claim that each new chamber is proportioned by the golden ratio relative to the previous one; however, measurements of nautilus shells do not support this claim.

      The proportions of different plant components (numbers of leaves to branches, diameters of geometrical figures inside flowers) are often claimed to show the golden ratio proportion in several species. In practice, there are significant variations between individuals, seasonal variations, and age variations in these species. While the golden ratio may be found in some proportions in some individuals at particular times in their life cycles, there is no consistent ratio in their proportions

    3. Golden ratio is the natural way cells grow:
      First there is one cell 1 , than this cell divides (1+1) =2, than each group produces one more (1+1)+1= 3, than that happens again 1+1+(2+1) =5, and again, and again... so you get Fibonacci sequence 8,13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144… If you dived one number with one before - you are getting closer and closer to golden ratio (144 / 89 = 1.61…). In simple organisms like shells flowers it is very obvious. (phyllotaxis)

      Reason why golden ratio is all over the place is because it is the way things grow naturally. Reason why it is never perfect in real life – because of less than perfect conditions…
      We humans are programmed to like golden ratio – it signals healthy growth and good genes. Classical art in general is full of golden ratios.

  49. When i watched this i watched it as a guy that has seen a lot of items about the Illuminati being the Antichrist , all 5 million members. With there whole New World Order. A new world, one with 1 government where technology has outgrown humanity, now this sounds nice so why does the bible tell everyone that it is better to have your head removed than it is to get the microchip? Does the radio frequency in the microchips all Humanity will be expected to receive really keep you sole from going to be with God? This guy makes it seem all so nice and right well I'm going to check out his movement. Is he a Communist??? What would this new government be called? and i know there going to be putting lots of people in these FRMA camps. I wonder who?

    1. I believe that the microchip is the tool and/or representation of the denial and surrender of our innate freedom and power... to an imposed governing authority that be have succumb to. Accepting the chip means we have heavily relied on a broken system of hate and deceit, and we've allowed our own fears to be manipulated just to survive a little longer... but in reality those who accept the microchip are just slaves to a new form, where technology is king and the makers (the corporate government) are gods. It solely means that we'd accepted materialism and egotistical part of us to survive, rather than the simple spiritual truth of love and freedom ... (the microchip society is forced to believe that they are living this truth but it is a false sense of it').

      I hope this makes sense, or has presented a different way of looking at things...

  50. There just trying to put microchips in us!

  51. u guys do realize that the main resource provider would be through a robot of sorts which biggest role would be to keep track what i guess we can say inventory of the earth's resources and have many different robots that it is connected to to deal with such problems and ship it through maybe a maglev transport system to different waypoints in the center of the cities that would be developed and after a while a huge number of items through the use of something such as 3d printing could be made for u on demand. Population reduction would decrease because of at least two reasons things such as birth control pills, the man birth control pills, condoms and an amazing amount of dif things would be free of charge making such a lot lower than what u might think occur and in reality a kid would have much less need to be born because u don't need them to take on the family business so to speak. Now why isn't this an utopia lol as long as humans can think, rationalize, have senses we can never have an utopia. The truth is do we really now what technology we have at our disposal (what i mean by this is are we positive that many of our best technologies aren't kept a hidden secret and how much of our money, resources and main hard core scientist are using most of it for military purpose and a huge number of fruitless endeavors. The true question is do we have the resources not do we have the money. Yes i do realize this is a very big topic and just to keep it from becoming an even bigger wall of text i kept it how it is

  52. srry realized double post

  53. its called the circle of life folks. too many people having too many babies results in economic circumstances that result in this kind of life. i don't feel sorry for these people for the same reason i don't feel sorry for sea turtles who have 200 little baby turtles and 197 die. If all the baby turtles survived, they would quickly consume all the vegitation in the ocean. The logic is the same as humans having 10-15 children they cannot provide for. if 1 or 2 survive, then mother nature has done her job.

    1. Is it mother nature (I think you are referring to balance) that creates hospitals, vaccines or agriculture? Those alone have made it possible to create a dissemblance. Lack of education and poverty results in people having too many babies. It has nothing to do with feeling sorry for anyone but to understand the situation/problem, how it came about and what methods to use to solve it. Claiming it to be mother nature is lazy especially when much of our advancements bypass mother nature.

  54. what would society look like if we didn't buy things until we had money and didn't live our lives on credit.

  55. Doesn't the implementation of all this require force? And isn't force violence? We're all supposed to live perfectly peaceful, free and happy lives under the constant threat of violence? If that's the best we can do then I'd just as soon watch humanity gradually wipe itself out.

  56. *please delete*

  57. I like it, it's rather nicely done. I like the cities proposed as well. But I have a few problems with it, however. It's too sterile. It's too precise, too "known" and there seems to be no place for complete unadulterated "freedom". Probably in 2 centuries (if it takes about that long to create such a future) people like me will be extinct. But don't forget us! Don't forget the sheer pleasure and excitement of the unknown, the non-forecast and the wild, wild spirit of a crowd, out of control...and no one knows what's going to happen. Our great-great-great grandchildren, read about us and understand....it was our chaos and love of freedom and uninhibited movement that helped create your safe society.

  58. another part huh!!!!! i didnt realize there was a pt.2, 3, and 4.....cool

  59. 23:30 "You can stress animals in the laboratory when their pregnant and their offspring will be more likely to use alcohol and cocaine."

    What animals do you know of that drink beer maybe a monkey if you GIVE it a beer and a line would like getting high eh? Not sure but i think these guys are stretching this a bit.
    Tell me genes don't play a big role after you research some identical twins separated at birth... Pretty shaky grounds... all of this.. well after the first forty mins couldnt watch anymore.
    Brave New World...

    1. I'm sure he didn't mean to say that.''shaky grounds'' tell me how we get our genes, I'm sure our genes don't come from the air we breathe.

  60. "Communism is a social, political and economic movement that aims at the establishment of a classless and stateless communist society structured upon common ownership of the means of production. . . . Marxist theory, communism is a specific stage of historical development that inevitably emerges from the development of the productive forces that leads to a superabundance of material wealth, allowing for distribution based on need and social relations based on freely associated individuals."- wiikipeida

    It sounds to me from that definition that communism is about resource awareness. And even if you would like to argue it doesn't, then the solutions proposed by the film are still communist but with resource awareness.

    The way to get to that establishment would be through big government and control, which would inevitably be controlled by a select few people, resulting in the same greed based issues. What I'm talking about (the reprap) would accomplish the goal of communism but by an evolution of innovation by the population itself, with no oligarchy of people in control.

    1. Communism in text or definition is not communism in practice. my point is that most people think of the USSR of PRC when they hear the word communism and this is a fallacy. A true communist state/nation has never existed on this earth, unless you want to use some Native American societies as a stretched example.

    2. I agree with this statement. Communism in practice is about control. Communist governments are twisted and will never work. You get punished for not sharing. Communist governance should never exist. Communism evolved by innovation is about freedom, sharing at one's own will.

      It is my belief that we are about to see the paradigm of zeitgeist shift towards a more ideal, more free society by open source creations like the RepRap.

    3. Yeah, and capitalism isn't about control at all, is it?

    4. No not if it is true Capitalism. In true Capitalism you are free to buy anything from a seller or sell anything you own at any price you agree upon with a buyer so long as you do not use coercion or fraud. What we have in the US is crony capitalism in which your ability to buy or sell depends on government officials. Your success or failure are are determined by favoritism in the distribution of legal permits, government grants, special tax breaks, and so forth.

  61. I agree with all the problems they talk about, but I do not think capitalism was bad or stupid like they kind of portray it. I view it as a necessary step in the evolution to something greater.

    Rather than focusing one's energy on changing the system by force, if one wants this system to change, I think they should focus their energy on the technologies that will impose gradual selective pressures for change to the system. The greatest one being the recent advent of 3d printing. Check out the Reprap wiki if you don't know what I'm talking about.

    I believe that will be the final technology to completely democratize innovation around the world, and it solves virtually all the problems this program states; that is once it can replicate and everyone can get their hands on one almost free of charge. Then, I think, we will see our capitalist economy shift more and more towards an open source economy with an almost complete decentralization of power. Whereas with socialism and communism I think the torch will just be passed on to someone or as this film proposes, something else.

    P.S. The Zeitgeisters will not get many people to listen to the worthy issues they bring forth using the language this film employed.

  62. I would like to live in that world of the future. I remember in the world of Star Trek they did not have money either.

    1. What, not even gold plated latinum? :)

    2. The "Deep Space 9" series was all about trade and had a bar where they had to have money to buy drinks. Actually, if you had the Star Trek replicator technology, money should be obsolete. That's assuming all things, including replicators are replicatable.

  63. Survival of the fittest sounds better.

    1. sociopathy.

  64. the solutions here are fine. Though i dont really want to live in a society where i cant get a hamburger at 2am, but instead have to wait for the supercomputer to decide that its time for my next feeding. that is a disturbing view of the future. how do we get around the fact that humans are fallible, and greedy, and power-driven geneticly based or not most people are currently stuck in this behaviour in one way or other. Do we educate people to stop being this way? how many generations would that take. and what do we do about the people who's upbringing has resulted in them already being antisocial? How do we ensure that families raise their children in healthy ways? Will we all operate as a hive mind after this education, how then would creative thought happen? i am going to watch this film again. as i have ALOT of questions

    1. "Though i dont really want to live in a society where i cant get a hamburger at 2am, but instead have to wait for the supercomputer to decide that its time for my next feeding. that is a disturbing view of the future. "

      I agree. That's why that way of doing things has no place in a Resource-Based Economy. In this example, there would be access centers open all hours -- not everyone wakes up at 8 AM and goes to bed at 11 PM, after all, right? -- including restaurants. Robotic cooks already exist in the world today. And they don't care what time it is that you want to eat. They don't judge or restrict, they merely follow commands that you give them. Whereas, in a monetary system, if the business isn't open at a certain hour due to labor costs, you couldn't get a hamburger even if you wanted one.

  65. The introductory explorations of individual and societal development are well done, the overview of the insanity of a monetary system is quick but unexceptionable. However.

    It strikes me that the proposals here are (a) dependent on technology (the old "technology will save us" notion); (b) designed to preserve our current "standards of living," especially technological, and hence perpetuating in many ways the underlying assumptions of current society, rather than questioning those assumptions; and (c) rather unrealistic in the sense that with energy depletion and climate change tipping points already occurring, we will be unable to implement them. For instance, while wind energy/solar energy generation are absolutely essential if we want to preserve some of the niceties of our current societies, manufacturing these tools is dependent upon (you guessed it) cheap fossil fuels. After all, there aren't any current factories set up to run on solar or wind, it's difficult to conceive of factories that could run on the type of output wind and solar gives (you can't fire a smelting furnace with solar or wind), and how could we build such factories without using fossil fuels to run the bulldozers, cranes, etc.? Yes, you can run a computer on solar-generated electricity - but I wager you can't manufacture the necessary components in that computer without a fossil-fuel run factory. In addition, we don't have a spare earth to start out clean on. We have to work with where we are now. And considering the political imbecilities inherent in all nation-state societies, this kind of cooperative effort seems not only unlikely, but impossible. To place any hope in it is, to my mind, naive in the extreme. Even the imminent threat of the extinction of humankind is unlikely to lead to that kind of cooperation, and if by some miracle it did, we won't have the resources at that point to implement these proposals.

    Leopold Kohr is fundamentally correct: most societal problems arise from size. Once a population reaches a certain size, destructive acts become practically unavoidable. A politically global coordination effort would be the largest thing humans have ever attempted, and considering the destructive powers of smaller political organizations, would be absolutely destructive.

    Frankly, I don't see a way out, certainly not one that allows us to retain all our peachy gadgets and internet and toys. Of course we must keep trying to find some way out; but we should also be prepared to accept our probably inevitable failure: drastically reduced human population, with drastically reduced material possesions.

  66. one the world will never end or the stuff from it,ore,oil etc,but all we know is what they tell us...sad little planet we live on,were people really just wanna make us slaves and rule us in smaller numbers,and the lies are endless.

    1. @ Ðaniel Çurtis
      "a one world gov" might not be too bad if ordinary people like you and me were building it openly with everybody participating and the people of the world in control ~~ dream on (lol)

    2. communism?

    3. Check description of communism. There is no sign of resource awareness.

    4. there is. "factors of production"
      "the proletariat citizens of the world will unite and seize the factors of production, distributing them for the benefit of all man."

      "factors of production" are resources by another name. There are multiple words with the same meaning....

    5. This seizure will be had by the evolution of the RepRap, seriously you guys need to look into this. Check out the wiki, while the plans are somewhat unorganized, the implications are profound.

    6. I think "capital" is more accurate than "resources."

    7. Factor Endowments literally refers to ALL resources used for economic productivity. This includes the capital used to finance, the workers used to produce, the machines used to assist them, and the raw materials used to create products. Factor endowments cover everything from seeds to plant a field, to the iron ore used in building a frame for an automobile. As well as all the financial and human resources used between. I am studying political economics, have been for a lil while now, and Factor endowments means "resources of production." Capital is considered one of the resources of production, but there are many, many more.

    8. you should say marxism. "Resource Based Economy" is generally the same concept as marxism but should not be confused for communism, even though both are supposed to be the same. Anyone who has studied Marx knows that his ideology has never come to pass. The USSR was not communist, it was Totalitarian and the financial elites were the party elites. They reshaped and renamed communism into a "resource based economy" because 80% of Americans have no idea what communism really is, only that "it's bad." When a good idea gets labeled as a taboo you have to recreate that idea for there to be any chance of society accepting it. But make no mistake, there will come a time when the oppression and inequality of the free market monetary system becomes so great that it will either cause the Apocalypse or it will cause a proletarian revolution, either way it would be much preferred for society to evolve out of its current economic system through technological innovation than a violent proletariat revolution.

  67. ya..this doc is funny,makes me wanna assume a one world gov will be so nice.

  68. I don't see how society can change so drastically other than on an individual level, from the ground up, through culture. I'm not going to build a super-computer to keep track of the world's resources. I want to know what I can do as an individual to change my personal culture and the culture of my loved ones to be more in line with this future utopia. If I stop borrowing money, stop exchanging gifts at Christmas, and grow a food garden in my back-yard, am I on the right track?

    1. Of course you are. If we look at countries like cuba for example and see how they have positively reacted to the existance of peak oil rather than shunned and twisted the realities into fiction like USA have i thin kyou will find the answer in your question.

      In reality, the only reason why we have existed in such wealthy times is through the depletion of natural resources, to the point we will now see the extinction of the world as we know it in our lifetimes. In reality, Lawrence Kohlbergs theories of conventional thinking is at the root of humans selfish actions, and it is only at an individual level can we resolve and progress into a new, different, sustainable world...

  69. I would really like to criticize the filmmaker here for not changing the title of this movie. His other films have no connections (that he claims and supporters of this movement claims) with this film yet its title suggests otherwise. This decision alone really irks me.

    Calling this film simply "Moving Forward" would probably allow viewers to view this documentary without excess baggage of the "Jesus wasn't real" debate.

  70. The movie itself does 1 thing right and 1 thing wrong.

    1. One thing right is that it critically identifies the problems with today's world.
    2. One thing wrong is that it attempts to solve this problem with no pragmatic-ism, strategy, and a concept that is still theoretical. It will always be a Utopian idealist solution until the numbers are crunched and the technology available.

  71. Showing this and other similar docus to friends and hearing statements like "yeah it's crazy but it is how it is" or "i still love my iphone" makes me feel kind of sad. Although humanity seems at a very low point of it's history i do not yet want to give up the idea that there would actually be a way to live in freedom and a healthy environment.
    I am spreading those ideas around my friends and interested people and i am happy whenever someone seems to understand. But what else can i do apart from proselytizing friends, bying organic local fare trade food and being nice to my neighbours? ;) I mean it all seems like a drop on a hot stone. Which possibilities do we have as individuals to really force change? It can simply not be, that there is evidence for us to get to an end as species even before the next century if we continue like this... People must wake up!

  72. Why on earth are these films at the front page of TDF?
    I've seen the first and the third films. The beginning sections about astrological/copy-cat Jesus is total and utter blue-eyed falsehood. Do your research.
    Check christianthinktank dot com /copycat.html for instance.
    It's a bit long but it's good. Yes, I'm a christian so I am biased, but come on! Aren't these guys?
    Even the Jesus Seminar doesn't take this position, and they aren't exactly out to defend traditional faith.
    About the conspiracy thinking and some such I won't comment.

    1. "Yes, I'm a Christian so I am biased, but come on!"

      Really? That statement is going to validate your arugument? If anything it negates your position.

    2. Everyone has a bias, realizing you have one and willing to admit to in your own argument shows that you aren't out entirely to further your own assumptions but maybe to actually find the truth.

  73. Quite frankly most of the population could/would be kept very busy for many decades just digging up old dump sites to scavenge and recycle all the waste that was dumped there.
    Much of what is said about agriculture is true but the use of soil less is not neccessary and the authors need to look into permaculture as a solution.
    Think LOCAL LOCAL LOCAL while restoring planetary systems.
    There are significant technologies that never even see the light of day thanks to "those in power" . More should be done to reveal those thechnologies and I think that would make a very good NEXT MOVIE.

  74. Those that think we need to "reduce" population seem to forget that we have access to SPACE. Believe it or not, orbiting our little rock, are great astroids of gold, iron, nickel, cobalt etc. . . .
    We, can and should continue to explore space at the very least for Asteroid mining for resources.
    It's, as suggested, LOGICAL to assume that human kind should expand beyond this single planet; therefore population is a moot point.

    1. I agree RickEll! The left has been stupid not to promote space colonization. We can do everything in orbit and deeper space than we do on Earth, and more efficiently, including agriculture. No more fighting gravity, unlimited solar energy and resources in the asteroid belt! We could have Earth as our park where we go for vacation from our space jobs.

  75. The movie is great and very informative and these types of doco are no doubt
    gaining momentum but theres a little problem.The world population does need to be reduced.The world economy will collapse. Evil does control the world military and police forces And even if we survive all things human the Earth the living bio entity that it is,more complex than the human body,will destroy most if not all human kind.The earth knows there is a parisite living
    on it.Desease that mutates,natural disasters and so on just take your pick.
    yes lets all tie dye our shirts, eat lentils, and play ring a ring a roesy till the tanks come and turn us into ground beef patties. please dont get me wrong warm fuzzy fealing love thing all great but i havent seen anyplace that sells
    military equipment to the public in my town.I say lets just finnish the game burn the board the box and burn the house the game was played in. [manopoly that is..........or lets just share a cup of herbal tee and ask them
    to redistribute thier wealth nicley.

  76. Actually there is enough to go around for everyone objectively speaking. It's just that some people have too much. That's why we need a revolution. Rather than having many people die why not just kill the small minority at the top? Then we will all have enough.

  77. This film depicts a nice utopian world in which we can all get along, and have enough to go around for everyone. But in the state the world is in, no change short of global catastrophe can ever be acheived. Whether it be through wars or natural disasters or the depletion of oil to cause real economic collapse. One of the biggest problems we face as a society is overpopulation. There are simply to many people using up all of the earths resources at an alarming rate. When our world goes through these changes many people will die as a result, maybe that is what this world needs, "a cleansing" an enema to flush out all of the bad shit and start over. Maybe future generations (if the earths feels we deserve another chance) will make better decisions and take care of each other, but I don't believe this current generation has enough time or the ability to change minds and change the world before everything runs out. To much Greed in the world. I say stockpile food,water, ammo, learn survival skills, take care of your family, and friends, and teach your children a better way, and maybe, just maybe... the world and the earth can heal.

  78. awesome movie truly blew me away.the part about addiction is solid & untouchable. U know scientist once predicted that by the 90's we would all be working a 10hour work week. What happened?

  79. I agree that our materialist/capitalist system needs to go, but simply replacing it with a resource-based economy will never foster the changes we need to overcome the current state of affairs. We need to all be self-sufficient. In everything. We need to destroy urban centers and factories in order to promote gathering our own resources locally. We need to look to the Amish and their community centered approach. Expecting technology to save us is just as delusional as expecting capitalism to save us. A resource based economy is capitalism in another name.

    1. your statement is based on ignorance.(not in a insulting way, lack of information)a resource based economy means creating a society with quality of life as the objective, instead of profit, the technology part is simply there to have accurate on site statistical information about resource management.monitoring available resources with the demand of them , and dealing with goods distribution.elimination of government and having a free society from money everything is cost free and all goods are designed to last.

      no laws and imprisonment. (laws now are created when no profit can be made of a problem) people are free from drudgery and being subservient.family's can spend more time together all engineers can work together free from copyrights,every individual has a right to improve an area if they have the ability to.

      a person can pick a career they love and work it for no income to contribute to this free society. no ownership. you can walk to a parking lot drive a random car across the country then drop it off in another lot when your done.

      houses can be designed using cylindrical and spherical connecting shapes made from plexiglass and concrete (equivalent of 3 grand instead of $300,000) the technology will be the thing that makes all of this happen. imagine all the world's automobile designers working on 5 designs, imagine 1500 scientists working on 1 medication.imagine 1500 luthiers making 1 guitar. imagine 1 computer that is so powerful and built well it will last you 65 years. this can all be a reality if we abolish money.money is modern day slavery.nobody would think otherwise unless they are brain washed into thinking they need more. it is time for a society in which all goods are free, knowledge information ,quality of life family are the highest achievements. for the first time in history this is possible, although when you look into the evidence of ancient Egypt with the precision of the pyramids it makes you wonder.....

  80. Michael Ruppert is a great teacher.

  81. Life changing documentary!

  82. This had some amazing and important statements throughout the whole video. Also a very hilarious Monty Python reference.

    I can't get over the ending though, it was so strange...

  83. God dammit I never wanted to see the fox scene from earthlings ever again but they put it in here!!

    The beginning of this video is absolutely incredible.

  84. i would encourage people to bring reasonable cons to the table. I'm sure everyone would agree we do need a new system that puts human life first.

  85. "Questions that may have remained following addendum are addressed and i find it hard to believe that people could attempt to “debunk” the ideas presented in this film. That would be akin to attempting to debunk science itself."
    You sound as if science is holy. Many people think it is. But Karl Popper told us that true science continually tries to debunk itself! Humility is what we need....

    1. you don't know what the word science means then. the whole point of science is that it tries to debunk itself.........thats what makes it work.

    2. @mo raj So we agree then. Science should always try to debunk itself! (The first part of my comment was a quotation from the documentary description that caught my attention).

    3. That's because you are too stupid to understand that Zeitgeist is not about science, but religion - New Age to be more exact.

    4. I don't understand where you got that idea? how about you watch it first, understand the point, then comment.

    5. As a Zeitgeist supporter, I can tell you quite unequivocally that the Zeitgeist Movement, nor the films inspiring and inspired that movement are not religiously based, in any sense of the term. The Zeitgeist films, particularly Moving Forward, and Addendum, are about social interaction, and intelligent sustainable resource management.

    6. Um....there is no separation between science and "New Age" Religion. New Age religion is simply the concept of viewing god and religion through the logical light of science rather than the obscured light of Metaphorical holy texts of the past such as the BIBLE, TORAH, or QURAN. It is the idea of breaking away from orthodox religion and simply accepting that there is a "God" or supreme being that created us and the universe and he has set in place a universal set of rules, laws, and principles which it is our duty to discover and understand through the art of Science and research.

      P.S: Those who fear change do so because they only know what they have been told by their parents and elders and are too fearful to go and learn for themselves--too accept the possibility that what they were raised to believe as a child is not absolute truth, and other people may know more than your parents, family, and local elders do.


  86. Ain't seen nothin' yet, b-b-b-baby...

  87. The Greatest thing I´ve ever seen in my life! I´ve known Zeitgeist for a few years and I watched my last one also a few years ago, but Moving Forward really changed my notions about the whole thing. I always somehow felt that the Venus project would limit our freedom in certain ways, but even after watching three ones before I haven´t fully realised what freedom we are having in our society now: to work, to earn and to consume. Is this freedom? Three hours ago, just before watching this one I told my cousin, that I thought the Venus project was a complete utopia and was impossible to implement, because of the nature of human beings. This doc convinced me of the opposite, it is possible, but not without a radical change in people´s thinking. And also from now on I will try my best not to be mad about people for their ignorance and stupidity, because it really isn´t their fault, they have been brought up to be like that, we are desired to be like that and it took a long time for the elite to reach their goal, by slow, constant and well designed changes, so we really can´t blame people for being like this. And because of this a sadly reckon, that the shift to the resource-based economy is not possible like it was shown at the end of the doc and I´m sure that the proposers of the project have to know this if they were able to create this doc and it is because this system has gone too far and as it was said in The Matrix, people are so manipulated, that they will try to protect it. You would have to do the same as they did and that is to slowly, step by step change people´s thinking, but in a positive way and I think the system will crash until you would succeed. In my opinion the society as we know it would have to completely fall apart to be possible to start again. Anyway, I will support these ideas from now on and hope that we will be so lucky in our deliberate destruction to get a second chance to undo it. Greetings :)

  88. The opening statement is so profound and highlights what we don't want to see. We chase things to distracts us from the bigger questions we dare not tackle let alone openly admit. "What matters?" If you died today, how much of what monopolizes your attention matters? Rude awakening but we sure as hell need it.

  89. wonder why people hate Islam when Islamic sharia shuns Interest, and declares war on interest...

    1. I think you've answered your own question there Syed.

    2. Coming from a dominantly muslim country and family I may say it is just hypocrisy . Interest has been collected throughout the history of islam and is still collected in other names .
      You should dig deeper into the history of islam to see the reason why it was introduced in the first place. Even the prophet himself was a merchant praising profit .

      And I really don't see much difference between the interest on money and "rent" collected from a land -which had been acquired by force at some point in histroy-
      Besides,if we follow your logic : since sharia doesn't shun or banish slavery we may reconsider slavery ...

      In our search for a better solution to our daily problems we should better think twice before replacing rational thinking and science with religion which have brought only wars , agony, exploitation of human beings and witch hunts throughout the history.

      PS: I don't think any rational being hate any religion but what is being done in the name of religion -like imprisoning female rape victims for not being able to prove their case ; cause the sharia says: if you are a female rape victim you have to find four witnesses to prove your case .

    3. Although I struggled to read some of your post, I still feel that it was well said.

  90. All the things advocate in Z will happen only when this system will taste the floor. At the moment things are only to start getting a little bit harsh.

  91. get rid of money.....back to bartering

  92. I like the knowledge that is presented by the zeitgeist movement, but i am not sure the Utopian society that is proposed is plausible in the real world. To me, it seems a lot like Marxism. At its core, the ideas sound like everyone will benefit. However in practice, corruption seems inevitable. He has got some good ideas, but who is supposed to manage this giant network? it seems there must be some sort of power in control, at least to get things going. Who is going to make sure these leaders will stick to the ideals of the movement? I believe the only way to counteract this, is to divide the power groups into resources (sort of like he said but, but I was not satisfied with the way power distribution was covered. I was left with a lot of questions).For example the wind power people in the Midwestern states enforce their power by giving electricity, or limiting it (with the help of other powers, such as farmers or something else) to certain people that may try to pervert the system in some way. The key to keeping this system from being controlled by the few is to seriously divide each type of resource into a group of people that produce it. Sort of like how a democracy is supposed to be broken up into branches, with a series of checks in balances in place to hold the system to its ideology. Of course this isn't the best analogy because even in a democracy people can be bought. Much more needs to be improved on in order for this to become a consideration for a new human societal infrastructure.

    1. Corruption is part of a money society and as money will not exist-what are you worrying about?
      When the new global sytem is in place all needs of everyone will be met making it pointless to try and bribe or blackmail someone.

    2. Money is not the only source of evil. Men still conspire for control, power, pride, devotion, god-like status. All of which can exist without money...

    3. @Andoniseus.. Money was a creation of these same people, to further facilitate those very interests. Yes, these can exist without money. But money would not exist, if not for these.

    4. I guess corruption and evil would not suddenly disappear. But it is an effect of anxiety (mainly of having less than needed) which is also wanted by the economy to make people consume or being moneytechnically "efficient".
      If everyone gets what they need for sure the need to accumulate reserves would decrease. Plus it would be much more difficult to store a huge amount of goods rather than virtual numbers.

    5. Disqus generic email templateHello Catalina,

      I think what you are saying is, that most monetary societies use “fear” as a way to control people. This too would be far less as soon as people start to believe that we can all be working for a common good. Better distribution of resources will clarify what the actual needs of everyone are. Once this is known production can be tailored to it so that we minimise waste.
      Greta Perny.

  93. Well said! Agree 100%

  94. I believe the Zeitgeist movies will turn out to be some of the most important ones ever made.

    Thanks TDC for hosting this.

    1. I believe those who follow this movement will turn 30 and get on with there lives and almost completly forget about this.

    2. Unfortunately, I'd have to agree with you. As wonderful as a perfect world sounds, we all know in our hearts that it's impossible.

      As long as there is greener grass, someone somewhere will fight and step on others toes to get it. It is human nature.

      That's not to say I'm not for progress - I'm an avid progressive - but the system they present is fallible, just as communism was, just as democracy is.

      Democracy is as good as it gets, we just need more checks and balances.

    3. sorry if this sounds like Braveheart but...and dying in theirs beds many years from now, they will wish they did something meaningful.

  95. I have only seen so far about 9 minutes...My brother is an ordained buddhist monk...i myself understand and practice it....this so far is simple cause and effect.....the next part that i am hearing is particularly interesting as i have been diagnosed for a loooong time with BPD and Bi-polar...
    I hope soon to set up my own charity....then save the world :)...through the simplicity of...cause and effect....no ego and sense of 'I'...totally mindful towards others....balanced...whole... Bill Hicks in my back pocket...and the pure 'core' of all the gods and the gods god...in my breast pocket x

    1. Good for you friend. Glad you learned this too. :)

    2. how would you ever know?

  96. Global peace is spelled with a Z

  97. Hey, I just wanted to let everyone know that the reason products are getting "worse" is because they are being made cheaper so that everyone can afford one. If you want higher quality produced goods than you have to be willing to spend the money because if it takesmoretime to produce such goods it will cost more money. Hopefully everyone still understands the concept of currency here. The fact is things are getting better, faster and cheaper as time goes. Also I think people are glorifying the "good old days" when things worked and lasted forever. That's not the case and even if it was the case, in the "good old days" people had a lot less and worked just as hard.

    1. hey everyone just wanted to let you know that the only reason that products are getting worse is a strategy known as planned obsolescence which is not only integral but necessary to maintain a continual growth economy along with cyclical consumption. oh, and faster and cheaper does not equal better.

    2. And you wrote that comment useing what? Your computer which 20 years ago would have filled many rooms and costs millions of dollars to produce, and not work as well :P

    3. Continuing avd420's line of argument.... "and would not have allowed you to get online to complain about it's maker."

      But let's not confuse innovation with industry.

      Things get 'cheaper' because every businessperson who values his or her money spends countless hours devising ways to increase profits and cut costs. And were it not for that simple basic principle of business, the human species would have everything it could ever want or need.

    4. Sorry but your facts are just wrong. Americans had much more purchasing power 40 years ago than they have today. Over time things have been getting worse not better, but it is hard to see with our fast food and billboard ads everywhere. Sure there are still wealthy people and still members of the middle class. But the middle class has shrunken in size and purchasing power every decade for several decades now, and that trend is continuing with no end in sight.
      As Laissez-Faire Capitalism(free market capitalism) progresses and the world market globalizes more and more wealth is being concentrated in fewer and fewer hands as the number of impoverished peoples around the globe increases. Since money is power and a Capitalist system rests on small portion of the population possessing the majority of wealth, it inevitably creates faction rule by the hands of the wealthy elite. Money controls politicians, politicians control government. If politicians owe more to special interest financial tycoons around the globe than they do to their fellow citizens than that government is no longer a democracy, it is totalitarian or fascist and ruled by elites that have no concern for the common people. Their concern is only for enlarging their pockets
      The revolutions that took place in the past; American, French, English....etc, were all caused by gross inequality in the distribution of wealth and resources in those nations. It was essentially the peasantry rising up against groups of Aristocratic oppressors. History does repeat itself and the Aristocratic oppressors of the past have been hidden by corporate logo's and confidentiality policies on share holders' but they still exist.
      The fate of billions around the globe rests in the hands of thousands. These thousands do not know, nor do they care for the common people. They simply know of wealth and power, and care for wealth and power.

    5. i completely agree but i disagree about the part where the future lies in their hands. The future lies in our hands its up to us now and as soon people start realsiing that and taking responsibilty for our lives and our future the better and brighter our future will be....with some turmoil inbetween of course

  98. Zeitgeist is fraudulent, like many media mediums it is there to encapsulate the minds. This time the niche they've found is decent peoples need to see good done. Unlike my brother and some of my friends (the ones that give a damn) I never trusted the zeitgeist movement, notice that in their videos, the vision of future cities always have a lot less people living in them. Their rhetoric sways good people into assuming the same ideals as the N.W.O, the bilderberg group, who are already building one of these sustainable cities. Sounds great but their agenda is depopulation - the murder of 4 million people. For those avid Zeitgeist followers, you've probably already seen it but I refer you to 'David De Rothschild at Zeitgeist Europe 07' on youtube. Here you'll see him, David Cameron and Tom Brokaw plugging carbon tax which is actually charging you for the air you breath and paying for this city project. Ironically once 2 million can be housed they wont need that tax because due to a few already beta tested diseases most of you won't be breathing. So please people, oppose zeitgeist, they are laughing at you right now at how they were the ones that did the impossible and charged you for air and how easily they manipulate the good meaning people of the world. As a side note, its said that the depopulation is need because people consume to much and the Earth can only sustain 2 million... Not true, with the means at our disposal she could sustain another 2 million on top of the 6 that already inhabit her. Also it would only take 100 years to colonise Mars only 25 years until people are living permanently on the surface. If only people would realise that life IS hard work and we must all pull our weight. The true reason for 2m is that 2m is easier to control than 6m, 8m or 10m. Most people don't trust Bill Gates, Google or the Rothschilds but these are just some of the benefactors the Zeitgeist movement

    1. One thing that is evidently fraudulent is the current fake economy we live in!


    3. 2million on top of the 6... that should be 6000. nearly 7,000,000,000 so far.

    4. Google Zeitgeist, and The Zeitgeist movement are not connected. If you can find ANY proof what so ever that links TZM to GZ i will leave the movement. Do you also think the clothes brand NWO, is a part of the new world order? Zeitgeist is a german word that means spirit of the age, exactly what we have to change. You are blocking progress and in fact helping the banking cartels to maintain power because the zeitgeist movement are the ONLY ones who have a total sollution to the worlds problems and the pure simplicity of it validates it. DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE YOU LIE ON THE INTERNET!

    5. Absolutely correct tariqxl. The Zeitgeist is based on Theosophy, Madam Blavasky's little invention where Lucifer is God (she write that, not me). In other words, this is a New Age movement that camouflages as being an anti-NWO when they in reality IS a NWO movement 100% compatible with the agenda set forth as United Nations (see Agenda 21), Lucis Trust (the religious New Age aspect of United Nation, an NGO of UN) and the rest of the traitor cabal.

      Strip the power from the criminal world leaders and put them in their chinese work camps. Then we might get some real peace around here!

  99. sooo in the new global resource economy robots would be in charge of monitoring, building and balancing everything for us threw sensors and machines. So all this info would be transfered threw machines to the center of the city or its main frame. It says subtley that it would need 3% of the working people to oversee this mainframe n would decrease over time. eventually only a small group of people would oversee the main frame and essentially have power to control the city if they wanted to and have total control over the city and its people. F*** DAT

    1. I have heard this statement numerous times when discussing these ideas with others, & I'm trying to understand what makes people think that robots are going to take over everything? The majority of laborious jobs will most certainly be handled by machine & automation, but it what sense do people get the idea that machines will think for us? They can't think, computers don't have the capacity to push the abstract, to truly understand feelings; & as a little fascinating fact about humans, & do look this up, human beings don't have the capacity to make decisions without the ability to embrace feelings. "How we decide", it's a book, read it.

      The idea of 'monitoring' is more precisely 'resource tracking' & management. Any person having control of anything makes no sense in a RBE, all things are openly available to anyone; without a financial system to delineate what something is worth, you can have whatever is made & available, since 99% of everything would automated, there's no concern for the working man not getting his cut. Thus, with free time being the new human enterprise, people can embrace the idea of volunteering their time for the betterment of everything.

      The foundational idea is that man is going to become interlinked, united in his quest for survival as one race; & through the use of technology, we can ultimately stop pillaging the earth just to survive, & can instead equalize our needs to the resources we have available, as well as increase the quality of life & standard of living for 'every single person on earth', not a single soul left behind.

  100. decrease the population starting with the rich, re disperse their fortunes to initiate the real new world order. if we started with the fortunes of only 10 people ( create your own list but we all know who they are) wouldn't the world as a whole be better off and able to start heading in the right direction.

    1. I see what your saying.. but the point is humans sometime during our existence INVENTED money. we don't need money to make the world work. we just need it to make the world work as it does now.

    2. LOL the best part of that idea would be watching everyone killing each other over who gets to keep what they've stolen from someone who's earned it.

    3. Exactly right AVD420! The basic problem is not the evil rich having too much. It's the basic nature of people to want more for themselves and their family. WE need a evil entity to blame so we can assume our own desires are pure.The rich have just been more successful (or lucky)at the "game"and we resent them for it and want to take their place. Individuals will always have different values ansd desires and this will always create perceived inequities in any system.

    4. @ ZarathustraSpeaks
      "WE need a evil entity to blame so we can assume our own desires are pure."

      Well, we're in no short supply of 'evil entities', so one should expect that we(the plebs) do assume ourselves to be nothing short of immaculate ? if, that is, your hypothesis is correct.


    5. Interesting idea. I do have one (ok a few but will just point out one) concern with your idea. Lets just say that the general public would be ok with murdering the very rich (yes most of us know who you are talking about. ie not the Bills Gates of the world but the truly rich and powerfull) and whoever we, by whatever means, put in control has the power to disperse their fortunes (it is your idea so we will put you in charge) A) Are we all going to agree with how the money etc is spread around? B) Do you get a little extra because it was your idea and you are now in control, hmm ya think those who got less would now consider you one of "them" and decide you needed to be killed because you are now in power and holding all the cards C) If you give the average person more (possibly way more) money than they have ever had or ever conceived of getting, would these people still be willing to get up in the morning and go do those mundane, often dirty labour intensive but absolutely necessary jobs that need to be done to keep our society and infrastructure intact day after day? Yes these rich people you talked about who are in control are not always nice people with good intentions ( ok who we kidding some of them, in my opinion anyway, are pure evil) and do need to be reigned in or eliminated at least in terms of the power and influence they have so in theory your idea has some merit but then are you not making America a socialist state and taking away the democracy so many people have fought and died for?

  101. If money is a tool of control; who gets control when there is no money?
    It is clearly true that these positions have been mis-used ( to put it mildly ), but our systems have been developed over years in attempt at finding a balance. What works if what we are doing doesn't? I would love to see this done on a practical level to see how it would really operate.

  102. One of the best documentaries I have seen-right up there with The Corporation, The Smartest Guys in the Room, and Who Killed the Electric Car ( though this one is a tad drier, the quality of information is superb). I highly recommend watching this and might do so again some time soon.

  103. They attempt to prove that all products are getting worse. Don't buy the iPhone 5? How many of these observably false "facts" are we supposed to believe. At 0:55 the guy says all life forms are in decline. Then why is our population growing. You have to already believe this crap to fall for it.

    1. Mark my friend, you are incorrect in your context about these apparent "false facts" and not much of an Entropy fan either!

      Please do not take this as a personal attack, an Ad Hominem as it were. But I couldn't help myself, as most of the other comments posted also have fallicies in them or people have projected their own fears onto the ideas presented in Zeitgeist Moving Forward and after watching this doc, again, your comment was at the top of the list so its easier to reply to. And if I have offended your good self Mark, or anyone else for that matter, regarding my reply, I do hereby humbly offer my most sincere apologies, I did not intend any harm nor mean any offence.

      You are correct, from a certain point of view! Products are getting worse, the differnece is that Zeitgeist Moving Forward, and the Zeitgeist Movement in general talks about Planned Obsolesence, the deliberate manipultaion of a product to make it fail, or in other words, to make it worse on purpose!! Why!? To make continuous profit, regardless of waste, pollution, needs or wants.

      What is entropy? Entropy is something that has many meanings and applications like Thermodynamics. But from the point of view that I was coming at, the most easiest way to explain Entropy is to say that it describes the natural tendency of the universe to fall apart into disorder.

    2. Life-forms are the only organizations of matter that actively develop greater complexity. They do not break entropy as far as heat is concerned, but life as a force is directly contrary to entropy's tendency to reduce complex structures into simpler components.
      Entropy has utterly nothing to do with the evolution of biological organisms. If it did, how would evolution have continually developed greater complexity in organisms over billions of years?

    3. I find this fascinating that individuals seem to remark about the nature of human population being in a state of growth, & that this somehow is contradictory & otherwise nullifies the fact our planet is literally watching the biosphere turn in decline. A good example is cancer which, much like our current population on earth, grows at an alarming rate, all the meanwhile the health of the human body that the cancer holds residence (our planet), strips it of health & function, leading to its death.

      Human population is uniquely adverse to the nature of the planet. No other organism abuses the planet & strips it of resources, without plausible future projections & concerns, simply for the needs of its current status quo. We grow because we have formed a way of life that is not directly affected (at least instantly affected) by the natural environment around us. However, when the resources are gone, good luck finding more.

      Our planet is unique, as far as our scientific research has brought us to understand, since to this day no one has discovered chlorophyll on any other world, & without it, no plant life can move beyond standing bodies of water to grow, since they need chlorophyll to produce food out of sunlight & CO2. Yet, despite the amazing uniqueness of this world, & our obvious recognition of our dependency on this planet to provide us with literally 'everything we know', we don't seem to think twice about what we are doing.

      Btw, as a side note, the word decline does have a subtle inclining to the idea that our social structure is literally collapsing around us, & we're the ones that are bringing about it.

    4. Just as our planet is unique so is our species unique. We have not only peered out into to the universe to find other homes, but we have inspected every life-form we have encountered here on Earth.

      The results are similar. We have not found another species which monitors CO2 content on other planets. We are it.

      As far as saying we are "in decline" even though our population is booming is to say that people's lives are inconsequential to you and of no value.

      The individuals who are alive today because of improvements to medicine, food production, energy production, and cheaper housing, i.e. all of us, would disagree.

      The pessimistic world-view you are adopting is a result of the extraordinarily extensive vision humans have been able to achieve.

    5. "No other organism abuses the planet & strips it of resources, without plausible future projections & concerns"

      Yeah dude, beavers do that.

      Weeds too, but they're not animals :P

    6. Mark... people breed to pass the time.

      Boredom makes babies far more than love.

    7. Simon, that is your parents you are talking about. And their parents. And their parents parents...

      Whyever they did it, it is the cause of you.

    8. just because our populations is growing does not mean our standard of life is better. There are more people in the world dieing of hunger, living in poverty, having limited access to safe drinking water and the list goes on. Closing a blind eye to these problems and saying its not getting worse is a failed outlook on life.

    9. Blind eyes are better left closed. I prefer opening a seeing eye and discovering that there are also millions more people living ABOVE the poverty line all around the world than there were 200 years ago and ALL PRECEDING YEARS.

    10. In the generations before, Man was not in the global position over the allocation and control of Natural Resources. If we are to "see" we must see the devastation this has caused at such an accelerated rate, else we remain blind.

      Isn't possible that we used our freedom to cover-up our evil?

    11. If you put yourself in the position of global resource provider you will definitely be running into a few snags. If you actually implement it you will cause more problems than you solve. How do I know this? By looking at our current leaders and leaders from the past who done so much in the name of global resources, and all the ruined lives and crushed bodies lying in their wake. To them it is immaterial how many lives must be sacrificed to 'save the world'. I've seen 'To Serve Man'. It's a cookbook!!!

  104. They try to be very rational and do a decent job but then say that in our modern society, "money is perused for money, and nothing else".

    This is often repeated but obviously false. It's nothing more than a comforting blame pointed at an inanimate object. Consider what you do with the money as soon as you get it.

    I had a girlfriend who always told me that she was a slave to money. Then I watched what she did when she got money. She said, "money, go get me a six pack and a pack of cigarettes".

    If your money is doing something stupid, it's probably because you told it to.

  105. Actually this isn't as bad as I thought.

  106. This is mostly anti-market stuff. It's an interesting theory: capitalists are running the economy, so let's get politicians to do it!!! That'll clean things up!

    The rich and spoiled ad was very funny.

  107. Though they could stop with the high pitched squeal between segments :/

    I actually liked this one - it collects info from lots of other docus and consolidates it in one place.

    Edit: I was with them until the last 30 - all hail our robot overlords! XD

  108. There is a "blueprint" in the bible. Get rid of ALL SIN. If you do not know what a sin really is, then you should learn. The plan is laid out perfectly simple in the bible. What you describe toward the end of this production about an ideal society is 'The Kingdom of God" that Jesus Christ spoke of. A perfect society is on the way..hold on it's going to get bumpy :)

    1. But what if we disagree on what sin is, or what the bible is saying? It is rather contradictory and convoluted - not one interpretation exists over all others.

    2. We are all born with original sin - to get rid of all sin you would have to completely destroy the earth since according to the bible every living thing is sinful by nature. Also, if you wanted to get rid of all sin you'd have to kill a lot of perfectly nice loving caring people like myself who commit sin by not believing in God (among other things that literally harm nobody) even though unlike many "righteous" religious characters I do not lie, cheat, manipulate people, etc. I only need my own feelings to understand right and wrong, not any sacred text. The bible even condones RAPE and SLAVERY which I think are quite sinful. Morality is doing what is right regardless of what you are told. Religion is doing what you are told regardless of what is right. Enough with the shame and repentance it is time to celebrate life and embrace all human beings for their inherent good rather than original sin!! The bible is not "perfectly simple" people have died over countless squabbles of the different church's interpretation of the text. Here is an idea that actually IS perfectly simple: I don't hurt people because I know it is wrong - treat others as you want to be treated, this is the UNIVERSAL rule we must follow to move forward!

    3. A morality that says the evidence of your crime is that fact that you are ALIVE is a sin against morality. It justifies every atrocity committed by man.

    4. "A perfect society is on the way.." All you have to do is die. I guess that's why they call it a sacrifice.

  109. Why do they call this the Zeitgeist (spirit of the times) Movement?
    It is terribly misanthropic. It has pie in the sky ideals and zero regard for the conditions of humanity with the idea of outlawing all privatization, having Robots help run government, and using the scientific method to come to conclusions. None of those things are very supportive of a healthy human society. It's radical socialism and extreme mysanthropy. What do they expect to accomplish with all these bizarre and contradictory ideas?
    It's like an episode of "The Prisoner" with Patrick Mcgoogan.
    It's the anti-humanity movement.

    1. I likened it more to one of those futuristic Popular Science articles. You know; the ones with all the flying cars.

    2. Hell, The Jetsons do look more realistic than this.

  110. I liked this documentary a lot. I will say that not everything presented in this film is presented in an order that makes sense to me. I usually find myself skipping the first 10 minutes of the film so I don't turn people off from seeing it. I agree 100% with the psychologists speaking about human nature and the scientists speaking about genetics.

    People that say this doesn't resemble communism theory are being defensive. What The Zeitgeist Movement proposes resembles communist theory in many ways, but it resembles true communism which requires people to not be corrupt and self serving. There is nothing wrong with communism in theory it's when it is put into practice where many troublesome things can occur.

    It's my belief that the current capitalist system is flawed because the idea of capitalism IS NOT creating the best most useful product at the lowest possible prices as the film states. The reason this doesn't happen is because of the cycle of consumption that needs to be sustained in order to keep companies profitable and competitive. I do believe in the idea of voting with my dollar but in today's system you cannot make a very informed decision on certain things. If capitalism is to work better for the people there should really be truth in advertising instead of these games being played to get people to emotionally relate to the product. I don't want a special relationship with my cell phone based on the BRAND or the Advertising designed to get me to buy it. I want a special relationship with my cell phone because of the functions it performs and the way that it connects me to other people and information.

    I am a big believer in open source technology like Google Android, Open Office, VLC media player etc. The problem I see with open source as it exists today is that nothing can truly be open sourced because they can't use the existing scaffolding of products which are already a success. Imagine if GIMP was allowed to use Photoshops existing scaffolding I bet a lot more people would be using GIMP and not stealing Photoshop. I feel that most inventions are not entirely new ideas but instead modifications to ideas that already exist.

    Anyway those are just a few of my thoughts on Zeitgeist and the Venus Project.

  111. The problem I'm struggling with the Venus project is how much the planets capacity to hold the ever growing population could reach. The J curb that humans are riding now is peaking to say the least and without poverty, crime wars, etc the human population would grow and grow consuming more resources now even in the resource based economy utopia the population would continue growing to lets push the planets capacity to say 20 billion which could be reached easily without poverty, war, crime etc its a terrible way to think I realize but there is some truth behind it. Theres still a real possibility of things becoming scarce if the planets population grew to this capacity. This being said I fully support the idea of The Venus project but of course every theory should be probed so there are as little questions remaining as possible.

    1. Space. The unlimited frontier. Harvest asteroids. Collect elements from the planets. If humanity is freed up from the things you have mentioned, then why not? Perhaps new earths will be created by our children's children's children. When people no longer have to live in fear of starvation, war, crime, etc. then they are free to expand their own abilities. Humanity has a chance, if only we give ourselves one.

  112. it's kinda funny that a organization claiming to advocate the scientific method, refuses to open it's designs to peer review and actively shuts down any debate or line of questioning on it's forums. While I 100% agree that sweeping global change is in order. Without full transparency and logistical debate and review i can't see the Venus project as anything more then a con job with no real desire to change anything. that being said their are other organizations advocating similar goals like a resource based economy that might merit investigation. if anyone know of any groups making any realistic attempts to openly work towards it's end i would like to hear of them.

    1. someone asked Roxanne if they know what is "copyleft", and she answered ".. copy .. left ... no .. no,no ... but ..." etc. , so it's not hard to understand the level of culture, Fresco & Co are "victims of culture", using his own words.

  113. 'The Zeitgeist Movement' does sound a bit unattractive for such a global change... the Venus Project sounds better already, but I sure do hope some inspiring people will produce an intriguing, universally-acceptable name,... it's the only virtuous life system I've heard of since I stopped believing in religion, politicians & all those things that seem to slow down progress.. We still haven't sent any explorers to anything further than the moon. That happened 50 years ago! No, humanity spends tons of money to bomb and kill the people living in desert countries! Wake up people - there's no heaven - we might be experiencing the best our galaxy has to offer but make it hell for every other organism surrounding ourselves. Time bullies stop winning.

    1. "'The Zeitgeist Movement' does sound a bit unattractive for such a global change... the Venus Project sounds better already"

      The zeitgeist movement is basically the same as the venus project. Think of the zeitgeist movement as a theory and the venus project as a realization of this theory. I'm not sure which came first and its likely the venus project has been in thought longer than zeitgeist, but they're both moving towards the same goal.

  114. I strongly support the idea that the existing money system is not ideal enough. But the solutions you explained is a finite element asking to construct a thing under existing knowledge (so called science), as the whole existing science may be just a 1% of real truth, so when we get know more, this system will ask to reconstruct again, simply not natural...... It has to be done in other way..............will happen in India first.

    1. Why India first?

    2. Indeed why India first. I believe if the solutions is not global, is not much of a solution!

  115. The video is very convincing to any earthling who wishes his/her offspring to survive in a sustainable, peaceful world, but I'd like to know who came up with that terrible name for the movement? Whether you approve of marketing and P.R. or not, the way you name something is key to whether people will be attracted to it. Rename this movement something more 'warm and fuzzy' if you really want it to take off. Zeitgeist sounds too nazi-esque, and will put many people off before they even listen to the ideas. The ideas here remind me of a study determining the happiness index of different countries (by the way, the US falls way behind others), but a Happiness Movement sounds so naiive and utopian that it would also turn off people immediately... let's keep thinking on names, shall we?

    And, even if you succeed in getting many/most earthlings to agree with the practical, scientific lifestyle solutions offered, then -- politically speaking -- how would the existing capitalistic systems, which we depend upon, transition from the monetary system to a new one?

    A huge problem with capitalism now is that the uber-significant costs of pollution and resource depletion are almost completely ignored ... they should be subtracted from profit; if the company's bottom line were affected by these true costs, most multinationals would be seriously in the red, no doubt. That might be helpful in ridding the world of a monetary system. Perhaps a worldwide 'greens' movement could gain enough momentum to force capitalists to pay for their destruction and hence all harmful ones will go out of business. Of course, this step is completely within the context of a monetary system, but it's a first step. Second step is to transition off of money entirely, if that's possible.

    There's an urgent need for change that people don't seem to fully grasp. The status quo has so much inertia, and capitalism is tantamout to a religion that will not be readily abandoned (especially by the extremely wealthy), but in the wake of the monetary system near-collapse (due to Wall Street theives) and the Fukushima environmental/energy disaster, perhaps many people will be ready to advance to a better world using the ideas and solutions that Zeitgeist promotes. (please change the name!)

    Thank you for making the video and for making it widely accessible. I'd like my kid's generation to live in a world like that.

    1. Nancy White, the definiton of the word "Zeitgeist" roughly translated from German means , The sipirt, or culture of the time, and the word "Movement" means, The act or process of moving or to change.Therefore the name Zeitgeist Movement actually means, To change the spirit, or culture, of the time.
      Quite apt for what the movement is all about.

    2. Like your massive greens movement idea! I can already imagine a mass of people who'd like to set up worldwide control mechanisms to measure the resource-usage & actual polluting of the industries. And a whole lot of people that love to ensure these actual costs will be accounted for (unlike what's happening for instance with the recent BP oil disaster).

  116. $ is the root of all good

  117. If we can stop being collectors of "things", this is more than possible.

    1. People need to get out of the idea of "He who dies with the most toys wins".

  118. pity... there really are lots of ignorant people out there... isn't it?

  119. although this film's suggestions are very tempting, the ideals proposed are simply unattainable. there isnt enough resources in the world to satisfy the needs and wants of the whole world. scarcity is why economics was invented. the world will not become the perfect, equal paradise this film proposes. just have to adapt to what society is

    1. If we start implementing clean renewable energy, there could be plenty to go around. Also if you look at the amount of resources that are being wasted with useless products, you will see that there actually is enough to satisfy the basic needs of everyone. Of course we will need to figure out how to create the necessary products and transport them without the reliance on oil, but that can be achieved by working together and innovating.

      It is not proposing a 'perfect' world, it is just the best that can be attained at present day. This new system will always be trying to improve upon itself but it can never attain perfection.

    2. Scarcity is a concept that was developed by Economics to drive the monetary system, Shifei Li. The land of my mothers ancestors lived in abundance with out "economics". There IS enough resources on this planet for everyone, but if we let this current system (that is NOT working) continue that will become and IS becoming the sad reality that you are referring to.
      I for one will always fight for my children and my grandchildren. I think they are worth it.

    3. I would like to add that we are also trained since we are childs to want more and more through mass marketing... We could equaly be trained to be more thrifty.

  120. explore outer space n shoot some asteroids ... there can always be paintball ...

  121. u answered the question ... it will take time ... TIME !!!

  122. Wow. This move is very convincing! It does not make it right, though.

    Some theories of economics don't make sense at first sight (like the fact that money is just a credit, the ...) but that does not mean that they are simply wrong. Without these inventions we would not have the high standard of living we have now. I suggest watching “ascent of money” and “commanding heights" before making judgments.

    Zeitgeist is intellectually a bit similar to creationist theory. They don't understand science very well, but give us convincing intuitively understandable explanations instead.

    1. Jacque Fresco says more about the monetary system in other videos on the internet. Basically it helped us get where we are, and served as incentive to do mindless, repetitive jobs. However, technology has now progressed to a level where many of these mindless, repetitive jobs are obsolete. Therefore, we have outgrown this outdated and broken system.

      Watch The Corporation, Inside Job, The Corporation Nation for further examples of how broken the system is.

      The fact that you related economics to science makes me think you didn't quite grasp the movie... Economics is NOT a science. There is nothing natural about economics, and science is all about understanding the natural world around us.

    2. The video is very DECEIVING not convincing

  123. Genetics and Environment
    There is a long segment on disease and genes in this documentary. While it is true that behaviors are greatly the result of one’s childhood and later environment, psychopaths are shown to have little to no empathy when shown on brain scans. A psychopath’s textbook behavior is not the result of their environment, but of genes; psychopaths are born even in the most nurturing and positive environment. Sociopaths, however, are the result of a traumatic environment (and have a greater likelihood, like psychopaths, of violence and repeat offences. Therefore, a change in society’s mentality towards violence will not affect such individuals). In addition, studies have shown (as in Kay Redfield Jamison’s book, Touched With Fire) that adopted children with a genetic predisposition to bipolar illness (whose parents are both bipolar), who grew up with their adopters in a very stable environment, still developed bipolar illness. There are endless studies proving that mental illness is genetic (given that they are not always, such as with PTSD and Dissociative Disorder). A negative environment will exacerbate the symptoms of a mental illness. So the argument is not black and white, it includes genetic and environmental factors.

    While it is true that such atrocities as the German Nazis who killed those with mental disorders have occurred, this does not somehow disprove such genetic diseases. While it is necessary for the well being of all to alter society’s mentality, genetics do play a part in mental illness.

    It is important to consider the unemployment problem in consideration to a fully mechanized society. Is the idea that we will be supplied with all material necessities without having to work for them, and then volunteer our time?

    The rest of the documentary is highly informative. Thank you.

  124. WTF?!?! Circular cities made out of extruded goo? *THAT* is the answer??!? Building a society that takes care of my every need? Are you f--king joking? The first one was a good primer on stating the problems (albeit over simplified in many ways) All the time spent on the 9/11 attacks was interesting but largely un-necessary. (If you don't know that Al-Qaeda et. al. are not CIA ops in one form or another, you are either blind or willfully ignorant.)
    The Venus project, as all such techno-triumphalism, is just so much hokum. The future looks more like Terry Gilliam's _Brazil_ than it does Fresco's Venus Project.
    After spending so much time and energy putting together a presentation to show the problems with the monetary system etc. to end up at the Venus Project as the solution was more than a let down. It is actually depressing, sad and disingenuous to present a vision that is so far fetched and unworkable without presenting a useful map of how to survive the unfolding collapse first. After spending the first part of the series deconstructing western religion (very interesting I might add) the presented solution ends up being a new faith based paradigm.
    Anyone who understands what we are facing or wants to learn more should check out Chris Martenson's _The Crash Course_ video series. The web site contains a good and practical approach to preparing for the continuing collapse.

    1. Just curious...do you have a better solution?Nice to see some healthy criticism in your post, but, come on, let's be honest here: we need less people whining and more people taking initiative, as Peter Joseph did.I'm sure people are interested in many views on these subjects. Seriously, no sarcasm. It's that simple: LEAD, FOLLOW or GET THE F*** OUT OF MY WAY. Thank You for your attention.

    2. String, perhaps what you took from the documentary wasn't the best introduction or overview of what The Venus Project proposes. I suggest you read The Best That Money Can't Buy by Jacque Fresco to get a good background of his ideas which aren't just based on aesthetics or some "new faith based paradigm" The designs are based on science, engineering, sustainability and efficiency. It is actually as far from faith as you can get. :)

  125. I can't believe anyone is bothering with these Zeitgeist movies. The first movie was impressive until you actually looked into the recycled mess of claims it makes. Anyone going along with it is just showing the same willful blindness to facts that any religious fundamentalist exhibits.

    1. What Zeitgeist reveals more than anything is the tendency of people to believe shoddy historical research. It's all about the citations. Zeitgeist cites second and third hand sources.
      If you consider something so commonly believed to actually happen, like the Spartans and The Battle of Hell's Gate. Herodotus was the first historian to write about it and he did it 400 years after the fact i.e. he missed "witnessing" the battle by four centuries and could never had met any witness to the battle...... There is no archeological evidence of the battle. Arab historians fail to note the event at all.

      Herodotus is consider a first hand source. So what are 2nd and 3rd hand sources good for? Not much.

    2. Totally agree, however, the Zeitgeist Movement cannot be so easily discredited. In fact the first movie was all first-hand clips of historical events. Unlike back then, all history recorded today is totally scrutifiable (lol, like that word? hehe)...sorry, it is easier to scrutinize and investigate it. There.

    3. Herodotus lived from 484 BC – c.?425 BC. The battle of thermopylae took place at 480 BC. That being said, Herodotus is obviously not an eye witness. So his estimated size of the persian army is probably based on rumors that were going on in the day. A more realistic number is given by Ctesias who is a contemporary to the battle. The battle is mentioned by numerious Greek and Roman historians and statesmen (Thucydides, Plutarch, etc.) before there were any arab historians. Not to mention the epitaphs that were erected at the site of the battle that date back to that time.

    4. Can you give some examples from this film? Blind criticism without citation is even worse than what you claim Zeitgeist is about.

  126. such a utopic ending unfortunately...monetary value is so deeply ingrained within our systems that seems almost pointless to hope in such a radical change in people's perception.

    1. I am of two minds about it, myself. I think it HAS to happen for us to continue to survive. But it will take a lot of unnecessary death (or if you look at it in another way, perehaps necessary since it is only absolute shock and events of epic proportions that have ever shaken people out of apathy, which is what we have when it comes to judging monetary values)
      But I look around, even today, I see movies throughout the history of cinema that reflect this. Aldous Huxley reflected this 75 years ago. But back then none of these people had the tools needed to enact global change. Now we do, or we are getting there, the internet is the first big step, it's like we make a giant leap, but then slide back, and all we can hope is that afterwards we are just that much further down the road. Like that myth of the man cursed by the gods to push a boulder up a mountain only to slide back every time. Except we get to gradually go onward. And the further up the technological chain, the steeper the climb, the higher the stakes of falling further back. But if we can steady ouselves, stay headstrong, but open minded, and prepare for both the best, and the worst, while doing the best we can in the present, well, perhaps we'll reach our summit.

  127. From the description it almost sounds like it is from the Ludwig von Mises Institute.

  128. Humanity in itself has to learn what loss is in order to give. If we were to forcivelly remove several trusted adults in a child's life; then grind them into raw materials to use in our environment the child would grow up with a clear reaction in his brain developement. He would grow up hating the people and/or the representatives of said people whom had taken away the key structure in his adolescent and childhood life.

    The truth is our society doesn't care and only something drastic: like the oil reserves running out, will begin to wake us up from this hell we call "society".

  129. Humanity in itself has to learn what loss is in order to give. If we were to forcivelly remove several trusted adults in a child's life; then grind them into raw materials to use in our environment the child would grow up with a clear reaction in his brain developement. He would grow up hating the people and/or the representatives of said people whom had taken away the key structure in his adolescent and childhood life.

    The truth is our society doesn't care and only something drastic: like the oil reserves running out, will begin to wake us up from this hell we call "society".

    1. We need strong examples and strong events to shake us out of apathy. But I see it happening already. But like all things, this change will come slowly, and probably painfully. I can almost equate it to my physical/mental journey, right now I am 20-0 18 KOs as a boxer, a pretty good record by anyone's standards. However I am also disabled rigth now, so just about any trained fighter could beat me, because of how much of my reserves I used up, how I didn't ttake proper care of myself. And how I let certain pains go without getting them looked at, it took it's tool and now I'm 4 years into a recovery that could take another decade if I don't change drastically. Or become permanent, or kill me. So I have to alter my ways quickly and have been doing so. I was told I'd be using a cane or a walker at best for the rest of my life. Now I never use one, maybe a walking stick for a hike. I can kick and punch again, I tested myself on those punching guages and my best in my prime was 1180 PSI, right now I'm at 800, that's with 4 years of just about nothing and heavy muscle loss. So Istill got it! :D And actually I bet if I were to go test it again I'd get 900 if I tried hard enough. Anyway, I'm digressing from the metaphor. But change has to happen slowly and painfully, and while I was a great fighter 4 years back, with enough training, and with the knowledge of what I had to go through to get back on track, I'll be an even better one 4 years from now, or 5. Krav Maga, Tai Chi, Boxing, before it was just some kickboxing and boxing, a little wrestling. Now I am evolving, and I am actually a better fighter technically than ever before. I had to defend myself recently against two very angry, drugged out men, they were very quick and wiry and stronger than they should've been, so it must've been a fair amount of crank and addrenaline in their systems. But I dropped both of them fairly quickly. One gave me fits, but I was lucky to avoid any biting or clawing, who knows what they had. Street fights are so dangerous! That's why krav maga is so great and tasers, mace and those Ronsonators, protectors-the plastic thing George Clooney used in The Men Who Stare AT goats, he uses it on ewan mcgreggor, it's an amazing defensive tool, and can scrape your windows, too! Now that's evolution! Plus it's 100% biodegradable. That type of evolution and thinking is what we need, across the board to survive this mess.

  130. just the voice of the narrator gives me the chills. brought me into thinking....we are the highest form of living organism in this planet :P.... given with the highest form of intellect :D... we do have two best gift... choice and chance... with that we all what we need... we should be guided with conscience ... and conscience is guided... molded by what we have in our values and virtues..

    1. 'we are the highest form of living organism in this planet '
      wrong. I am not sure how you define 'high' but however you meant it, I am sure if you think about it for a moment you will see this statement is completely erroneous. For example: Chimp short term memory dramatically exceeds that of human beings (by a factor of 10!), bats have sonar and pigeons have homing abilities, dogs noses.... etc.. it goes on and on. The idea that because we have cortical intellect that that puts us far above the rest of nature is a big part of the problem that enables us to treat the rest of the animal world (which are in fact equally complex sentient beings) with utter cruelty and indifference. Many of which have qualities that far exceed anything humans are capable of.

  131. It saddens me but by the time we reach 2050, many people will die because of the greed of a few.I like the idea of the Venus Project BUT it is also flawed. In any system, there are problems because there are no systems that are perfect - especially those involving human beings. There will always be a few who are evil and who want more. Will it even be possible to make governments, the billionaires and powerful world leaders to give up their land, power and resources for this to happen? Even if the people take it by force, there will always be people who will take advantage of the situation and steal power for themselves. And in desperate situations (say if the resources have run out and we overthrow the governments) the people - even kind people - will behave abhorrently because of self-preservation instincts (I would too if my children are starving and there are rapists running about with no police force to help me.)I can't see how this will get off the ground if anarchy needs to happen before all this glorious automation and over abundance of free things for the people occurs. In the period when people are starving and no laws are in place, they're not going to wait a couple of years for engineers to get resources and build the dream city. They'll cheat, steal, and scavenge to get by - which ironically affect their children and you risk bringing in citizens that may be potential criminals in the future. Even if we don't need anarchy to start the Venus Project, where are you going to build this place? Which country or leader will hand over good land? Which company will donate the free technology and scarce building materials to start the process? Which country will give up prized resources for free for a group to build a project? It will take time, free labor, dedication, volunteers, free resources, free technology, hard work, experimentation, co-operation to make it work - everything which the world economy is against. We humans have breed greed and competitiveness into our culture and society. I want to believe that we can change but I can't see how we can shake that off soon. And we need to change soon because the world problems are getting out of hand. Seriously, the problems we and the powerful elite have created is so overwhelming that I just want to move to a small isolated, life-supporting island with my family and get away from all this s***.

    1. agreed, however, evolution is soo darn slow, realize then that if we breed greed and selfishness, control what we breed into society and realize we can make that compassionate, children are being conditioned to there surroundings, this happens automatically and is biological as children learn the values and how to survive, THERE IN hides the answer, condition your children with greed, they will sow hate, condition children with compassion and they will sow love, and NO!, nothing is perfect, problems are there to overcome, for every 1 problem, there are many varying solutions, pick the best! and aid children to learn from their mistakes.

      ask a child, any child! to choose between hate or compassion, guess what, I think you already know the answer, its the conditioned state that leads us astray when even a child knows the right answer.

  132. A bunch of hippies made this documentary... Sure they claim to have an answer for everything, however every idea that they present can be easily turned against itself, with no or little effort. Whole movie makes fundamental assumptions from the start without even going into detail why, humanity is good and must survive and that we will destroy ourselves eventually.. Humankind is a pretty stubborn parasite, with all the wars, drugs, diseases, poverty, natures catastrophes and whatever else they name in this film - global population still continues to grow (for some reason they don't mention that), now that is pretty scary. What will happen if suddenly all the dying stops or reduced to a minimum ? Life is not some wet Walt Disney dream where everybody gets along and live happily, no, that is why it is life. Maybe this planets resources should all be depleted so we can come up with something and move to another one. This movie only contributes to what it is trying so hard to expose and made by people who drive hybrid cars while sniffing their own farts.

    1. so pretty much your saying you would rather do nothing about any of the problems that you are seeing going on around the world. Continue to go to your easy access grocery stores. use your new and technologically easy cell phones and drive your gas guzzling cars. drink your beer. eat your pre-made boxed dinners. use your electricity to keep up with your favorite characters on tv. then to do anything to help stop or even slow down the future devastation that is going to be left over for our children and their children and so on? Yep, better to call them hippies than to get up off your computer chair and get your ass moving before its so far gone you drown in your own mistakes and regrets. Got it now! Yep, u got it all figured out dont you? Stop watching South Park!

    2. IF you really want to do something beneficial for the world, then stop living in the fantasy world of Zeitgeist and get in touch with reality. There are problems we can be dealing with right now to improve the human condition. Get at the root of the problems and fight the New World Order. As long as the New World Order exists, there will be no peace and no Zeitgeist Utopia. As long as the New World Order exists, there will be more nuclear catastrophes and oil spills. As long as the New World Order exists, there will be more misery, more hunger, more death, more violence and more war. If you truly want to see these things reduced, then fight the New World Order and stop bickering with people that don't share your view.

    3. After reading these pointless comments... Once again for all selfish idiots who see themselves as saviours of our planet - Zeitgeist brings nothing new to the table. It is just another evil turd which depresses people even more and does not help. It is here to make money of your pseudo sympathy (like you have any), and yes South Park series have a far better value than this crap. Get over it.

    4. Your viewpoint sir is the exact foundation that the misery, war, starvation, and corruption is piled upon. You think the world was meant to have millions of innocent children die each day from a lack of clean water and food THE BASIC NECESSITIES OF LIFE? If your not compassionate enough to relate to a starving( do you even no how this feels?) human then your no human at all. There isn't two opinions on this matter, what is presented in this movie one way or another will happen or we will die. What kind of a person criticizes a full fledged attempt to stop poverty, famine, war, and mass manipulation? A person like you who as allowed themselves to accept things as they are has given up on life on personal and social level. Not only do you ridicule the Zeitgeist Movement you go as far to condemn societal progress at All!!!! if your going to continue to spread your useless "Knowledge" of the world on documentary's that attempt to make the world a better place then what shall we call you? your certainly not human, you don't deserve the luxuries that have been given to you by the similar people who brought you this documentary. YOU DONT DESERVE AN OPINION

    5. I guess nobody deserves an opinion. We should all just be lobotomized drones and do the will of lucif...I mean Zeitgeist.

    6. John, your emotional and silly, not to mention utterly pointless trolling is a further example of self-hatred in the wake of helplessness: You feel utterly helpless, which is why you rag on those humans who have the courage to improve this world.

      Grow up.

    7. what will happen ??? ... hmmm ... maybe star trek happens ... and we finally go to the stars ???

  133. Paradigm shift.

  134. Wow im amazed i havent even watched the film yet an just from reading the comments i feel like i know what this movie is about. i wish the world was filled with intelligent minds like the ones i see here. people who question others and themselves, who explore ideas and solutions. government is probably thinking hmm why aren't these people working for us? because they are smart duh haha. keep up the good work. Btw does anyone agree that science and technology has hit a major roadblock in terms of our ability to understand natural processes.

  135. agreed, im in.!

  136. To those that think this a NWO hidden agenda please get real. hopefully one day we will realise that a RBE is the only way we'll get to reach the stars and enjoy peace on earth. Great movie that all should see before its too late!

  137. Followed all three parts of it. had a good bunch of great thought provoking stuffs, blended along with some severely argumentative illusions that i might not adopt. a ton of questions floating in my mind trying to reveal feasible answers coping with their arguments, remained inconclusive still. i remember i emailed a bunch of relevant and serious questions regarding earlier parts, impounded with no logical answers till date. i hate current imperialistic monetary-market system as they do; still some part of me telling me to like the idea and the other logically arguing not to. just few of my large chunk of new questions might be(some might say i am tripping...lol!):
    1. the current imperialistic monetary-market system owners have history of demolishing every entity that might stand in their way. if some of you are threat enough to them, why they have not taken any strong action on or eliminated zeitgeist, julian assange, or alex jones or few more yet?!?? with due respect, sorry to say that you guys haven't showed much about that the world doesn't already know. are you just alternative strategic deployed players of their potential single New World Order system?!? are they strategically implanting relevant key players in both sides to ensure a win?!
    2. how different are, 'a world with many countries' and 'a world with many cities'?! mirror reflection it seems.
    3. 'global resource management system'...who would be in control of that management system and what would be the hierarchy?! we all know, all decisional opinions can not be singular, so someone has to decide; who would that be?! we also know, money has no intrinsic value of itself; don't you think the singular power and control on 'global resource management system' would have some significant intrinsic value?! how to decide who to lead when?! the 'democracy' again...:)?! wouldn't that be another scam of politics?!
    4. who gets to eat caviar or only potatoes...hang luxury art piece or mere calendar on wall...watch entertaining movies on 100inch plasma tv or just boring news on 20inch crt tv...sail to world tour or only can view sunset from rooftop...who decides about the quality and quantity of final products each consume?! inequality doesn't depend on only as monetary disparity, but also on consumption opportunities.
    5. what if there is large permanent migrations between these modern so called 'cities' resulting in overcrowding and underpopulation among cities!? how to decide who lives where!?
    6. i could not find or rely on a number of statistical facts it's given. it talked about if a hypothetical similar new earth found...which is not available realistically; rather in this current world, enough damage is already done to create a significant natural imbalance in various regions. how to regain dynamic equilibrium in this already unbalanced natural world as 'Nature is a dictatorship' itself!?

    there could be many more to clarify...but no offence...i have been a major encouraging initiator for any positive change as always among my peers and students. however, i believe the saying, "hope for the best, but plan for the worst." :) :)

    1. I'll have a go.

      Lets say I'm the secret head of the NWO. Alex Jones makes a lot of noise some of it sense some of it nonsense. He delivers it all in a paranoid manner that rules him out as a leader of change even if people listen to him. He is better discredited rather than killed. The good ideas are discredited by association to his paranoid delivery rather than discourse. Anyone who shares the sensible arguments with him but does not make as much noise as he does nor get the attention is rubbished as a more convincing Alex Jones but a paranoid nut all the same.

      Assange is a secretive bastard and released the leaks with a sneaky back up for when/if We (NWO) get him. We shall not make him a martyr and draw attention to his project. The masses have a short attention span, we have a powerful network of tried and tested character assassins. A nice case of sexual assault, no make that two, and throw in psychoanalysis that ties that into his troubled upbringing. We'll get the impudent git good and proper even if it takes years. We are patient.

      zeitgeist - sounds like hippies with college degrees, and we'll tar them with that brush. They cant compete with Grand Theft Auto, Gears of War, The new i-phone (amazing how often we can repeatedly wow the sheeple with a "new" gadget that allows them to talk to each other and find information, and make them want to pay for it, even though they are able to talk and get information for free!)

      As for the showing of much the world already knows, i would argue a very small minority knows of these issues( though more are aware ) and and an even smaller minority of that small minority understands the practical details. Smaller still know how or wish (or both) to risk the attempt to effect change. That smallest bunch are best watched in case they somehow gain traction with their ideas.

      Too easy. If there wasn't a difference our rulers would not bother with the unpopular World government thing. It would seemingly put them out of a job.

      Your understanding of resources is wrong from the get go. Resources are there to be used. When they are monetized (eg steel no longer being primarily a raw material but a commodity traded for the sake of trade itself) then the investment logic requirement arises. That requirement includes resource management which is really asset/investment management, and the resultant hierarchies you speak of. This different view of course makes no sense whatsoever if you believe that the capitalist Vs Communist property model is the only workable means to living. There are other ways - naturists (by this i don't mean nudists) for example do have property but are in no way capitalists. They share and value the communities health and vibrancy (respectfully within mother natures bosom above self but are in no way communists).Yyour talk of resource management "control" seems to me to be framing the ideas raised within the limits of your defining of resources and management. The sharing of food equally among a community can be called its management ( not "share" not "resource management" although strictly speaking it is resource management). Once the control aspect is removed and the wellbeing of all is the primary reward then "who controls" can be interpreted as "who drew the short straw." Hippie talk? Yes, but conventional thought has not done us a great deal of good and at the rate we are going nature will eventually bite back and force us all into drastic changes.

      4) Caviar? if the sturgeon had not been turned into an expensive commodity (rather than the delicacy it once was) many more people would have it available to them at a non-exorbitant price, instead it is an endangered species. Caviar has always tasted the same but only with the onset of consumer culture did the greed driven pursuit of the sturgeon cause the price to shoot up accelerating that pursuit. I wont bother with the rest of your point. If you cant think of equality and other values without bringing up the non essential products of the system that has created the greatest inequalities in the existence of man then you'll never get it (I refer to plasma TV's luxury art etc). True equality measures include access to clean water, suitable shelter, basic nutrition and healthcare.

      5) The largest global migrations are undertaken via life threatening modes often with the aid of (loan shark) organised gangster extortionists which makes it clear they are not a lifestyle choice but a desperate act of last resort. These new cities will supply the basics and cut out the desperados and thus those who prey on them. The remaining migrations will be about lifestyle and opportunity which will be more manageable. Selective, informed community investment based on needs not profits and the"economics" debunked in the film will resolve the urgent unplanned mass migrations. who decides? If the values are wellbeing based rather than competitive profit based that will sort itself out. Thats impossible? Yes while society adores a person who stashes billions and looks down on a person who does not have the latest "must haves".

      6) the key word is "Hypothetical". If you don't know what that means look it up then ask someone to guide you through the contextual use in the film. Nature is a dictatorship itself and will find equilibrium (most probably at great distress to ourselves) with or without our consent but there is a tipping point. I'm sure you agree its better we reach that tipping point next year rather than tomorrow. If you hope for the best and plan for the worst then the plan is useless if it does not involve the millions who will be displaced and seeking out bunkers with foodstocks etc if that is what your prep involves. Even those heading for the hills with guns & ammo etc will not have enough to deal with 1000 starving desperados with mouths to feed let alone millions ( as displayed by the failure of border controls and threats of imprisonment for illegals. border controls includes the assaults by guards frustrated by the failure of the system, they just make the illegals more cautious.)

      :) .Dont Limit yourself to the thinking within our current systems, after all its just thought. The first step in finding solutions is thought.

      Happy thinking. ;)


    2. On-point and extraordinarily insightful responses to the questioner's (Sayeed's) doubts and concerns.

  138. The ideals are mostly good, but I can't support a technocracy. Trading one crap situation for another is hardly progress, and I'm sorry but it's not a logical next step to say you use a calculator, therefore what's the problem with the computer deciding your fate. We should be embracing our humanity rather than shunning it. I agree the current monetary system of central banks and fractional banking is a root cause of a lot of evil, but I can’t see resource based working in the near future. For starters we don’t have the ability to take stock of all the resources our planet has to offer – we simply don’t have the technology capable of giving us that information. I also find it hard to believe that millions of believers of traditional faiths will simply cast aside their beliefs. We need to create a society which allows for multiple paths to be taken, not force everyone like cattle into one route (like we have currently, and like Fresco/Joseph propose). For me it’s yin and yang – you can’t have good without evil. Let the capitalists have their system if they like it. Why can’t we also have another system (or systems) which allow people to go whichever route suits them? We all know one size fits all never works, so why do we expect it to?

  139. Club of Rome states:

    1. A world consciousness must be developed through which every individual realizes his role as a member of the world community.

    2. A new ethic in the use of material resources must be developed which will result in a style of life compatible with the coming age of scarcity.

    3. An attitude toward nature must be developed based on harmony rather than conquest--only in this way can man apply in practice what is already accepted in theory...this is, that man is an integral part of nature.

    4. If the human species is to survive, man must develop a sense of the identification with future generations and be ready to trade benefits to the next generations for the benefits to himself. If each generation aims at the maximum good for itself, homo sapiens are as good as doomed.

    See any likeness with The Zeitgeist movement?

    Please note; First build the Man and then the city!

  140. I have watched most of the other Zeitgeist films here, and this one also makes for a very interesting and informative viewing experience.

    I do not agree with all points presented by the makers of these docs, but as mentioned in the introduction above, many of their ideas would prove nearly impossible to debunk - most of it boils down to common sense.

    Still, I do not share the grand hope for a brave new world growing and flourishing under a future resource based economy. It could happen (and should eventaully happen in some form if life as we know it continues), but I don't think it would go as smoothly as some people may hope. Even if/when it comes to pass, humankind has quite a well-known reputation for screwing up almost anything we touch, and there will remain those who will try to use any future systems for personal gain. I would expect no less than eventually returning to a system that will work in a similar way to what we have now, where personal and political power is at a premium.

    "The love of money is the root of all evil" indeed. Even if there is no money, man would probably find a suitable replacement.

  141. awesome doc. please watch them all with an open mind. maybe one day our kids will live in a more balanced world. peace all!

  142. This is all great information and quite intriguing. There are a few bits of misguided info though such as "the invisible hand" being used to describe the forces of supply and demand. This is incorrect and if one reads the Wealth of Nations Adam Smith was talking about ones own pursuit of happiness in effect brings about the good of society ie if one man starts a business from his own pursuit of happiness he creates goods, services and jobs for others and he personified this natural force as an invisible hand he wasn't talking about supply and demand which is set into equilibrium by price which is driven by the scarcity of the good and demand for that good. It has nothing to do with god as described in the show. This is just one example of misguided economic theory. However it does sound nice. Its like when people try to interpret the bible in pieces without looking and the whole message.

    1. I think if you watch again you will come to a new conclusion. When he quoted "the invisible hand" he was referring to a transisiton from natural economic activity to a God like force behind economic practices of the Federal Reserve and Government. It is some what abstract so watchers may have to watch a few times to see how we transitioned from natural economics and God as the head to forced economics with money acting as the supreme entitiy. I am an economics student and there are some economic theories and laws that are only taught to keep the status quo....period

    2. Thank you for the response...I do plan to watch it again and research the subject of Zeitgeist further as it is very intriguing and touches on many ideals I personally struggled with when I was also a student of finance and economics. Aside from what I viewed as a few misguided pieces of info I think the whole idea here as a whole is wonderful and I hope the movement continues to progress. Thanks again

  143. Of all the Zeitgeist films, this is my personal favorite due to the fact that it is less conspiracy theory and more a study of sociology and the history of human behavior. There is truly something not right about todays American government and how it affects everyone around the globe. However, it is a necessary evil, due to the fact that some people could care less about the others in this world (whether it be their neighbor or someone less fortunate across the globe). Free will is the life and death of us all, its what we do with that will that could end up changing the future, and its in our hands whether you want to believe it or not.

    We created this government with revolution and let it turn into what it is now. Were lucky we still have the freedom to protest and fight for real change and reform that matters beyond our selfish needs.

    Not attempting to be the originator of the following statement but I do believe, "Orwell rolls in his grave", when observing todays society. Also, Im not trying to sound completely paranoid or anarchist but dont believe everything you hear on the internet, in the media, or from the government. Trust and verify for yourself if possible while you still have the resources.

    I believe it was Mark Twain (Samuel Clemens) that stated "In the real world, nothing happens at the right place at the right time. It is the job of journalists and historians to correct that." Something for your brain to chew on.

  144. I dont know.. it seems that no matter what we do, just the fact that the population will double in the next 35 years, is terrifying

  145. I hate corporatism but I am not that naive. We will destroy the global economy through the refinement and diversity of human ingenuity, not it's homogenisation.

  146. Metaphysics needs to put a leash on you scientific fundamentalists. The equilibrium of the world requires nurturing transformation not regulation. It might mean that you have to work at interpreting shifting patterns in socio-ecology. Oh I forgot, you don't seem to be keen on the idea of work. We should all just evolve instantly, the investors take tribal wives, the politicians join green peace, the scientific clergy join hands with the witch-doctors and the fat bastards at Mac-d's offer themselves as a meal, (while the hydroponic cyborg farmers are tweaked).

  147. Vladko, I can say with honesty that I have now seen every single documentary on this website. The amount I have learned from each one obviously differs as my attention span for certain topics is greater for some than for others. I am sure you are working hard to constantly add more but I just want to thank you. This is the first comment I have ever left and I just want to let you know that you are doing a very important thing. Much of this information and perspective cannot be viewed and is not portrayed on mainstream media. By showing many of these documentaries you are opening peoples eyes and I just want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. Keep up the good work... Peter Joseph is a genius as well.

  148. @SFRI~
    "If this idea about a communistic society takes root coercion will be required and will surely be abused and exploited."

    Socialism is an economic system. What you call "communism" is obviously Bolshevik Communism--- a Russian variant. There is nothing inherently totalitarian about socialism itself, but Bolsheviks were a nasty bunch--- they long since left the world stage, down the drain pipes of history.

    1. Exactly professor Noam Chomsky said it best in this documentary I watched the other day "The fall of the Soviet Union was the greatest victory for socialism since the death of Hitler"

  149. BRAVO, BRAVO, BRAVO !!!! This documentary shocked many of the viewers. I read many of the submitted comments and it is a definite eye opener. A Resource Based Economy shakes the minds of those who wants no change to take place. The brainwashing done has shown it's fruits. Many still refuse to consider a way of life without the existence of money and Wall St. Many believe that they cannot rise out of their beds each morning without the existence of money. Many believe "What is the point of life without accumulating expensive stuff!" They are no longer seen as special and unique.

    The present World Order has brainwashed people to believe they are what they eat,wear,drive,and live-in. Having status based on the accumulation of wealth is where it's at for many. So, I understand why this documentary shocked the s#%t out many viewers.

  150. Explain to me how a mutual gains system based on trading the fruit of productivity will bring about poverty.

    However entitlements, coercion and ruthless profiteering (through a coercive system) already has.

    If this idea about a communistic society takes root coercion will be required and will surely be abused and exploited. A pacifistic society will be impossible.

    When i argue with Christians I frequently bring up that according to their faith the initiation of violence is strictly forbidden and any other system than liberalism (libertarianism in the states) is surely paradoxical. The same logic applies to anyone who describes, regards or claim to be a pacifist.

    But the structure of society doesn't end with the governmental system but the road to utopia must be continued through cultural evolution.

    The bashing of Adam Smith was far fetched, plain wrong and unfair.

    1. Adam Smith did write those things. He did like most elitists believe he was part of a superior species of hominid. You are cattle to him. He hated you. Why do you worship him?

  151. I like all Zeitgeist movies, it gave me a good veiw of whats going on this shit planet.Im thinking about how we could fix ourselfs and our planet, from being destroed by us.Imagine that world have been changed.People have hobies, like some people like do sports, some like to watch nature, some like to do creative activities, and so on.But what about thouse who play violent video games, or people who like shooting, or do something which involves violence?Are we will be destroed?Personaly I can't find life interesting for me, and I can't find myself in the system that this movie shows,I mean a good system, without money and not correct economy system.If new world will come, and violence will die off, what people like me gonna do?

  152. Thank you from a hidden viewer!!! :)

  153. Publish this on worldwide TV. Protests are what is happening now

  154. Interesting! It's a must watch!

  155. I should also add that one of the main points of this documentary is that 'nature is the dictator', I think this is relevant in how we should cultivate our food. We can artificially cultivate GMO foods, very successfully, it doesn't mean it is safe for our health and we should use it thoughtlessly with abandon.

    Nature has created 'seasonal' plants which aid in human health in the season it is grown. Winter vegetables aid the immune system against colds & viruses, summer fruits provide nutrients that aid the body in hot weather. Plants that grow in one climate are known to have specific nutrients that aid health in those exact climates as human kind has evolved. Who are we to play at nature and grow all of our food in a climate that does not exist the other side of the world.

    I will take organic produce over artificially produced any day.

    1. Again - you are confusing GMOs with hydroponics. Hydroponics is simply growing in a medium of water or nutrient solution rather than soil. It does NOT mean GMO!!

  156. Even if humanity got its shit together, I still wouldn't want to live here. Compared to other universes, this particular one is basically a shithole. Look within, get out of your body, discover how absolutley amazing the BIGGER picture is. If you think this world is the only one, or this universe is the only one, you have not thought big enough. I am sure this will be considered the rantings of a mad man, but death will come, you will see. Then there are the other ones who know exactly what I am talking about and probably more. When the time comes to leave this world, do not come back, stop crusifying yourself, do not listen to any entity that says you must, question them. The mind behind this universe does not want to be undone, but it is a false mind and need not be obeyed. You have choice because of what you really are, but that must be discovered for yourself. See you at home, or somewhere along the way...........

  157. @Science is not my god

    Please provide solid research to back up your opinions, if you are 'educated' on this subject, you should know to substantiate with facts and I don't see any.

    Most of the newspaper reports on hydroponic greens focus on the taste and how productive the method is.

    * Provide nutritional studies on hydroponic vegetables which examined and compared a broad range of nutrients, fibre etc

    * Provide studies on the long-term health effects of eating hydroponic greens. For example, studies where laboratory animals fed with hydroponic vegetables were then exposed to bacteria and viruses to test their immune responses.

    Organic versus hydroponic

    I raise this issue because I know of studies that showed that eating organic vegetables – grown naturally in soil, without chemical fertilisers and without pesticides – boosted the immune system of animals and helped them recover from disease.

    It was found that bacteria and fungi in the soil passed their immune factors to the vegetables, which, in turn, passed them on to the animals that ate them.

    Hydroponic vegetables are grown in a totally unnatural way, without soil, in a solution of chemical nutrients but, thankfully, still without pesticides. Since they are almost the exact opposite of organic vegetables, it is logical to conclude that their health effects might also be the exact opposite. Research must be done to provide this.

    Provide studies where laboratory animals are fed hydroponic vegetables for a few generations to find out whether subsequent generations turn out to be healthier or more sickly.

    These, rather than taste, are important questions that must be examined.

    1. @Jennifer - I think you are confusing hydroponics with GMOs. My experience with hydroponics comes from growing organic veg with hydroponics – not reading newspaper studies. I have grown organically in soil as well. Both are remarkably similar and indeed many current organic growers are using hydroponic methods already – you’ve probably been eating hydroponic veg without realizing it. You really should take studies with a grain of salt or any science really. Data can be manipulated any which way to produce the desired result. My knowledge comes from personal experience actually doing the task at hand.

      Hydroponics as a growing method does not create the same risks as GMOs. There is no genetic alteration when a plant is grown in water rather than soil. Plants tend to grow faster in water, and there is no need to use chemical fertilizers. Organic fertilizers can be used in an aquatic medium. Half the rainforest in the Amazon is growing out of the river or its tributaries – are you going to try to convince me it’s all totally unnatural? I think you'd agree it's absurd. Given our growing population, a faster crop is better if we are to even begin to attempt to feed everyone.

      I do agree there are inherent risks with eating GMOs, and unfortunately North Americans are already the guinea pigs for this – without studies to see if it’s indeed safe. If you are truly worried about this planet’s flora please read up on GMOs and what Monsanto and others are doing to the food supply with suicide genes and patents. Your concern would be more relevant there, than by trumping up false claims about hydroponics. Again, please just go pick up a book, preferably about organic hydroponics.

    2. @Jennifer - I think you are confusing hydroponics with GMOs. My experience with hydroponics comes from growing organic veg with hydroponics – not reading newspaper studies. I have grown organically in soil as well. Both are remarkably similar and indeed many current organic growers are using hydroponic methods already – you’ve probably been eating hydroponic veg without realizing it. You really should take studies with a grain of salt or any science really. Data can be manipulated any which way to produce the desired result. My knowledge comes from personal experience actually doing the task at hand.

      Hydroponics as a growing method does not create the same risks as GMOs. There is no genetic alteration when a plant is grown in water rather than soil. Plants tend to grow faster in water, and there is no need to use chemical fertilizers. Organic fertilizers can be used in an aquatic medium. Half the rainforest in the Amazon is growing out of the river or its tributaries – are you going to try to convince me it’s all totally unnatural? I think you'd agree it's absurd. Given our growing population, a faster crop is better if we are to even begin to attempt to feed everyone.

      I do agree there are inherent risks with eating GMOs, and unfortunately North Americans are already the guinea pigs for this – without studies to see if it’s indeed safe. If you are truly worried about this planet’s flora please read up on GMOs and what Monsanto and others are doing to the food supply with suicide genes and patents. Your concern would be more relevant there, than by trumping up false claims about hydroponics. Again, please just go pick up a book, preferably about organic hydroponics, and educate yourself before you rant.

  158. @Jennifer: Please educate yourself about hydroponics before completely slating it. It is not unnatural and does not produce inferior plants as you suggest. If you want to introduce beneficial bacteria this can easily be done in a hydroponic system. Plants have naturally been growing in a media of predominantly water in many different climates around the world since the dawn of time - that is there are countless aquatic and semi-aquatic species of plants and even some which are not native to water that do exceptionally well when in an aquatic environment. I hasten to point out that your precious organic produce is grown with a variety of "naturally occurring" pesticides and toxins heaped upon them. Even human waste as fertilizer is considered organic. Get a grip granola.

  159. Oh and the bit about most people not working, but everyone rushing from their leisure time to volunteer to do work they have no experience with? Come on guys, you have to do better.

  160. I find this documentary naive in many ways, several very superficial and poorly thought out ideas are thrown about as if they the answer to everything. No ownership? Lending out goods? They can't be serious. Every time I need a camera (or anything else) I have to rush down to the 'library' and hope it's there and that it even works. Ridiculous and completely unworkable.
    Then there was the hydroponics idea, they must have put about 5 minutes into that stroke of genius! Hydroponics are unnatural, grown in water and whilst they reduce pesticides we do not yet have enough evidence to prove there are no long term health effects, soil has bacteria and various substances that are needed nutrition for plant life as nature intended. I would not be depending on hydroponics and they do not come close to rivaling organic produce.

    This doc has some nice ideas, but I am disappointed that a documentary would be presented that has so little real research behind it.

  161. Man everyone here is right and its a shame we (people who always watch TDF silently) never thanked you for this genius Website.

    Thank you for your efforts to educate people. We need more like you!


  162. After an irrelevant start, all science disappears from the documentary by the time it gets to economics. The author merely holds a monologue that presents an overly simplistic view of economics that completely lacks any historical perspective.

    Bringing this back to mathematics. What he is arguing is that this self-organizing approximation we have now is totally wrong, because the problem has a perfectly simple NP-complete solution. That's the opposite of what you would reasonably argue.

  163. Why is what America believes, is what "hence the world believes? Typical Ameico-central gibber

  164. To all arguing, for the sake of argument or for the sake of emotional comfort: What all these efforts mean? What are they for? What do they achieve, or could achieve in different scenarios could explain the possibilities. The first part of Zeitgeist film talked about religion. So there came 'Zeitgeist refuted'. I did not watch it in it's entirety, but I was amazed how much emphasis was placed on refuting the religion part. Even with other topics included, It seems to me that religious stance influences opinion on, say, economy stuff, possibly because the arguments were presented by, dare I say, a heretic? I completely agree with opinion on economy presented in the movie, with a few exceptions such as, that man still has to be in control over machine, not the contrary. But spiritual or religious thought is the main problem here, isn't it? Because, our fundamental conduct, view of things and world, is affected by it, I think it is safe to say that spiritual attitude and belief forms this base for thinking.I think that we sometimes forget that morals and ethics are formed after, not before the world. The problem does not lie in some religious triviality, like, discussions about the icons or what calendar is to be used,and many other, which people use to support much larger and important views or beliefs.The problem is the view, the division and it has a lot to do with three aspects or questions.First:What is Earth and life in a present, material reality and how things truly relate to each other? Second: Is all that a result of intention and success, or, is it a failure or 'fall'? Third:How do we form our world view based on the second? If life was at all "designed", was it designed to be the way it is, so we form our outlook on that, or it was a "flawed creation" or fallen". I think this predetermines every decision, every moral and ethical standard and, likewise, whole society structure. One thing i think is certain: the truth, whatever it may be, is outside and beyond any moral debate. It exists,and deals with existence, regardless of acceptance, like a table that exists regardless of weather its shape will be liked or disliked by the eyes of an observer.The truth comes from being. The wisdom comes from knowledge of that which comes from, and is, being.It is this lack of knowledge that troubles the man kind.All it led to many attempts and explanations. Not all of them could be completely true in the same time,all of them could be false, all of them could be true to a degree, or there could be one completely true.Let the one who has the ultimate, demonstratable, irrefutable and large enough proof step out, and world should follow. If this does not occur, it is wrong approach to insist on belief or imposing it, as the whole debate then comes down to a matter of self assertion, insistence, and witty accusation and condemnation of those lacking arguments in the same manner that the one accusing lacks them

  165. Many are willing to die at the battle front to win a war
    many are willing to live at the battle back to win peace
    i am at a standstill in the middle with many others
    we are in an era of anxious fears and hopes
    we stand on the cliff of our own death
    turn away from the extremes
    walk towards a different direction
    1 1 back to back forms an arrow
    if enough are standing in the middle
    we can go side ways towards evolution
    join the philanthropic army
    this army cannot be stopped
    it is made of the millions of children
    we are within in our own silence
    resting on the line of physical equilibrium
    if you have courage in what you can do
    you could change humanity
    evolution needs ambassadors
    it needs loud visual passionate desperate emissaries
    apply for this job right now
    at home and at work with your loved 1s
    knowing words cannot shut off
    for ever in your mind
    sing the essence of the empowering verbs
    be have do give love
    there is no costume.color.age.gender for dignity
    although 1 definition of dignity
    does not seem enough in our world
    there may be different ranks for dignity
    be the student where you are most often the teacher
    be the teacher where you are most often the student
    listen to all children and sit on a chair next to 1
    the younger the better
    be the pupil of an iris in the eyes of a flower child
    rate yourself in the reflection
    play the game of tic tact to you
    forming the word dignity for a small 1
    and then for your Self and then for others
    a poet in her free time!

  166. @RV~
    I'm not a defender or member of any movement except "The Brights", certainly not The Zeitgeist Movement which literally means 'Spirit [or ghost] of the Age' in German. It's a clever invocation of an optimistic, open-ended spirit that imbues the movement with a sense of the Numinous that Carl Jung talked about.

    Anyway, here's my take on the last millenium. in order for any historic "zeitgeist" to hook on to an age it takes time and generations of new practitioners of new culture. In time this yields periods named accordingly--- like The Renaissance, The Enlightenment, The Industrial Revolution, Modernism, etc. These names connote how the story of civilization writes itself out and usually define the zeitgeist. But it's never had 100% heterogeneity. Usually that difference can be found in phenomena like the East vs. West paradigm.

  167. @Lary; When the method being used is failing, yes modifying the method can lead to a positive result. Of course it can, however it can also lead to a negative result. It's just a gamble. I don't fear change, I just don't like the sounds of this particular path. As I said we will never as a species achieve a perfect society or economic model. We are just to diverse. Our diversity through the ages has ensured our success as a species on this planet. I know you have been viewing some other docs on the site and the comments afterward. Just keep in mind when thinking on this ideal the content and comments pertaining to the Louie and the nazis and the Anti-gay Nigeria and the Zionists docs. Just look how very much people disagree in this world. There is zero chance for some one unifying ideal to encompass all. And honestly if one came close there would be chaos. The adventist christian groups would be sure that it was the end days, the zionists would refuse to relinquish their ideals, the extremists of every religion and government would rebell against any sort of unifying ideal. No this "movement" is nothing but a pretty pipe dream.

  168. i am a silent viewer, ive probably watched over 100 documentaries on this site, and only now am inspired to comment and show my unending appreciation for this truly remarkable site. it is a limitless database of knowledge and freedom of thought for any soul to avail of. Those that do avail of this site are truly in search of knowledge and freedom from the oppressive society we live in. glory be to all that seek knowledge and freedom, And i hope that one day the world will change to the views held in this documentary. To all those that feel the same way i do, even though i will never meet any of you, i stand with you. Together.
    Thank you to boyinblue for inspiring me to comment my first comment
    And big thank you to TDF

  169. @ReasoVox~
    Reread my sentence: "Sounds like somebody has got to be wrong or else there’s a much better way that no one has discovered yet."
    Basically I was alluding to a possible third way where the two opposing viewpoints are synthesized into a sort of higher resolution. Thesis [+] Antithesis = Synthesis... like that... very similar to what you said except I'm more hopeful about gradual positive improvements in civilization's social structures, ie ; governments. If we view civilization's evolution down the long hallway of history, it seems clear that's what is happening... at least that is the concensus.

  170. @Reasons Voice
    post #364

    Well said
    You really live up to your handle.

  171. My mouse has only two buttons, a lot less than my retired remote control-thank goodness! A very good site as I find myself here everyday, and with that, everyday I find myself!

  172. The TDF site is great and so was this film when it was concerned with describing the problems. The solutions were much less impressive. Calling on a Big Science to solve all the problems with computers is laughable. The idea that the problems are too complex to be solved by mere humans so we need to rely on a higher power Computers is pure Scientism

  173. @lary; Actually nobody has to be wrong. If one simply accepts that man is flawed and being flawed themselves they are incapable of creating a perfect system.

  174. @Vladimir~
    Human beings are flawed with self-interest therefore...:

    =>...socialism will never work because people are too greedy...
    =>...capitalism won't work because, (surprise), people are too greedy...
    OMG. Everybody claims the other guy's economic system won't work because people suck. Sounds like somebody has got to be wrong or else there's a much better way that no one has discovered yet.

  175. This is a pure Communism concept that is described. Please open the works of Marks and Lenin. Educate yourself. Please read some literature on what Communism is and the idea behind it. Communism is not what most of people in the west think it is. But Communism is exactly what Zeitgeist is proposing. It is a beautiful idea but it is impossible to accomplish as it is a utophia. Dont be fooled by this movie. I really liked Zeitgeist 1, but after I saw 2 & 3 I became really dissapointed. It will never work because Humans are greedy, will always tent to take control of everything from others and will always try to cheat.

  176. @Son of Zaphod; There you said it!! "Why would you need to steal anything if everything you needed was available to you without a price tag, debt or any kind of servitude?"
    I keep hearing this from Zeitgeist enthusiasts. And again I ask where is all of this coming from. Where are the needed things being made or grown and by whome? The more I hear the more it sounds like a manna from heaven scenario with absolutely zero basis in reality. Are you that detatched from reality that you have no concept of what it takes to create and supply needed items to people? I'll give you an example. 1 forrestry management specialist, 2-3 luberers, 1 heavy equipment operator, 1 truck driver, 1 pulp mill factory manager, 20-30 pulp factory workers, 2 quality controll agents, 1 more heavy equipment operator, 1 more trucker, 1 grocery store manager, 1 grocery stock worker, 1 grocery clerk. product toilet paper. Where is your magical toilet paper coming from? All of those people are going to do those jobs just because? And don't tell me you feel toilet paper is noessential, if thats how you feel I hope there are not many of you. If you want to say you could use a cloth. shall I run down the path of textile production next?
    The world is full of busy little people doing tasks that you have no concept of if you somehow believe that what's needed will just be there available to all.

  177. Two hours and 41 mins, wow. Amazing how that was easier to sit through than most movies. I had seen the first Zeitgeist several years ago and not the follow-ups. The last two times I came to this site Zeitgeist Moving Forward was advertised; last week I watched The Sherman Brothers and loved every minute. When I came here again this week I bit. This was an excellent documentary and gave options and answers to how we can play out the horrific scenario that is about to befall our country and the world. I am not so optimistic however. There is one possibility that may sound ridiculous: given the amount of ufo's being seen all over the planet (and for proof of their existence you need only to look at so many Nasa tapes; and read Zecharia Sitchin's 12th Planet to finally understand the whole "religion thing"), there is a possibility that the gods that upgraded us and gave us civilization will come down en masse to help us correct our dysfunctional society otherwise it may be a Mad Max world to the bitter end. God help us all.
    Thank you for a really great site that I view many times each year. Usually after several Hollywood or international movies I need a break to Reality and your site is my Oasis - I always come away feeling I did something good for myself. Thank you again for a great site.

  178. @Billy BingBong

    I find it difficult to believe you are ready to dismiss the entire video because you object to 5 seconds of animal torture that is shown. That seems rather petty.

    The films was remarkable and brought up several important issues regarding capitalism, the monetary system, diminishing resources and the nasty effects that extreme ineqaulity has on a civilization.

    At the very least, our capitalist system is need of a major restructuring. It won't work unfettered as our libertarian friends would like us to believe. It never has at any time in any part of the world. The philosophy leads to severe inequality which leads to revolution.

    Russia - extreme inequality leads to revolution and the USSR.
    Cuba - extreme inequality leads to revolutoin and Castro.
    China - "" and Mao.
    Egypt - "" and we don't know what.
    Mexico - extreme inequality leads to the rise of drug cartels who find easy pickings in employing young and starving kids off the street.

    The current corporate regime in the U.S. in blind to these facts and is currently at work liquadating the middle class and transferring wealth upwards. Any attempt to alleviate this mess is branded as 'socialism' and a gigantic media apparatus goes about making sure the attempt is squashed. Another decade or two of this and there will be revolution in the U.S.

  179. I can't believe people think that a Resource Based Economy is some sort of Socialist or Communist movement, this is far from being factual!

    Communism and Socialism has armies, money, banks, social stratification and inequality. A resource Based Economy would have no need for any of those things.
    Why would you need to steal anything if everything you needed was available to you without a price tag, debt or any kind of servitude?
    Why would you go to war with another area of the planet over resources, when all the resources of the planet were made the common heritage of ALL humankind?
    Why defend a system that deprives people of the basic needs of life when they can be provided for and everyone on this planet can benefit from a higher standered of living far exceeding that what they have now?
    Does it not make sense to build a system that promotes human and enivronmental well being rather than monetary profit from whatever means necessary, regardless of the environmental damage or the degredation of human well being?
    Doesn't it make sense to try and achieve a balance with our environment and to build a sustainable social system?
    Does it not make sense to leave a healthy planet for our children to inhabit?
    How do we achieve this, well isn't that up to us to figure out along the way!? Be the change you want to see. It wont happen over night but I do think it will happen IF we are not too late.
    As I am of the perception that what we are doing now is killing our environment, ourselves and leaving nothing for our children to inherit but an eventual lifeless, infertile rock barren of most, if not all life that helps sustain our planet.

  180. i watched almost all the documents here !!!
    Im one of the silent user ................... and Yes that website opened my mind ............................ The moon stories, the london bombing, the great mystery of water and of course from zeitgeist to kymatica !!! You re definitively part of that "consciousness shift" we re hearing about everywhere !!!

    David from Paris

  181. Hey guys,
    Zeitgeist; what a great movie huh? The concept and premise of a movie such as Zeitgeist is important in trying to understand some of the progressive questions we need to be asking ourselves in poor financial and political times, which have had paramount socio-economic results.
    However, there are many many subjective, and quite frankly false claims that Jospeh tries to shed light on. Zeitgeist has no real basis in serious scholarship or ancient sources, and it relies on amateur sources that recycle frivolous ideas from one another, rather than serious academic sources. Here's a few of the ideas Joseph has made grave errors in:
    1) While there are parallels between the story of Jesus and many ancient mythological figures, many of the ones mentioned in the film are false, as are other aspects of the film's description of these myths.
    2) There is no evidence in Egyptian sources that Horus' mother Isis was a virgin, and says that Ra was the Egyptian god of the sun, not Horus. Similarly, neither Krishna nor Dionysus nor Attis were ever said to be born of virgins, as Krishna was the eighth child of his parents, Devaki and Vasudeva, and Dionysus' mother, Semele, had slept with Zeus.
    3) Moreover, Horus was not adored by three kings, and that neither he nor Attis were crucified nor resurrected.
    4) Neither Horus, Attis nor Jesus were born on December 25, as the ancient Egyptian calendar did not include the month of December found in the Latin calendar, and that the date of Christmas is a celebratory tradition historically derived from Sol Invictus and Saturnalia, rather than the Bible.

    The film is an interesting object lesson on how conspiracy theories get to be so popular... It's a driven, if uneven, piece of propaganda, a marvel of tight editing and fuzzy thinking. Its on-camera sources are mostly conspiracy theorists, co-mingled with selective eyewitness accounts, drawn from archival footage and often taken out of context. It derides the media as a pawn of the International Bankers, but produces media reports for credibility when convenient. The film ignores expert opinion, except the handful of experts who agree with it.

    All in all though, Zeitgeist was a fascinating film, and, for the most part, shaped a pretty constructive argument pertaining to the monetary system.

  182. zeitgeist articulates the problems quite well, but is it the way forward ?? ... hmmm

  183. this zeitgeist was incredible. for once a documentary didnt just ask questions it made answers clear as day. the way they put together that movie at the end was so touching i want to run out and throw my money down. but id be the only one. remember the good ol days where a government pissed you off you just over throw them. man they were the good ol days

  184. Just like thousands of others, when this video first came out I was obsessed with it and I felt I had a duty to spread word of it. I watched it numerous times, and as we do I listened to it in bed as a nightcap - this is why I didn't pick up on the horrific animal torture displayed in this video originally. Once I did I realised this video is full of subliminal mind tricks. Then I came to the conclusion that Zeitgeist can stick itself up its own ahole.

    The monetary system isn't the enemy, attempts at global domination are the enemy, just like it always has been. Gold and silver trading is the way forward.

  185. They so outdid themselves, this one contains twice the crap of the first one. Really capitalism is bad? Okay then what do we replace it with? Socialism, Marxism? I just could not watch after a certain point the propagandist stench was so rank.

  186. A friend send me a note about Zeitgeist Day on March 13th 2011 because it is my birthday. I went to the site to see what was planned for the day...wow...this mouvement is spreading fast all over the world, even Africa, a continent i have travelled for a year...and that surprise me.
    And that is what this movie did...it touched the mass and very well could continue to an unexpected outcome!

  187. This site is what internet should be about.
    Knowledge is power.

    Heard of this site from.. a review on netflix,

    Now i'm stopping by everyday haha

    Keep it up!

  188. What a complete nonsense. One zeitgeist movie is just as stupid as another. Every supposition, every argument is a complete gibberish.

  189. @dhillcrest
    what they mean is every dollar created already has interest owed on it (for example for every $1 created by reserve banks $1.01 is owed back) so there is more debt original $1+ interest then there is money in existance. if all you have is the paper money they created and you give them back all the $'s where do you get the money to pay the interest. hopefully that explains it if not i am sure someone can explain it more clear than i

  190. Hi. Could some of you more knowledgeable help me out with something I don't get. One of the lines in the doc suggested that, if all debt in the world was repaid tomorrow then there would not be a penny of money left, indeed, there would still be money owing.
    What I don't get is, if debt is repaid to an individual, who then uses it to repay debt to a different individual (or institution) and then to another, and another and so on, won't there eventually be someone who gets ALL the money - a 'first lender' so to speak?
    It might be a totally confused question, but if someone could shed some light to an economic ignoramus I'd appreciate it.

  191. What is it with this site?

  192. datbasE=2011- swt(M)340.29m/s
    enter tsf 2-10
    Thank you to all who make and keep this website happening. I love it like a library...for all it contains, but mostly I think for all it promotes within us. A media here Resonates by way of streaming thought virus and spreads by us and through us. And Now WE who were us, are connected by that i think. And so thank you again, the psyche of our selfawareness grows with you and from you.
    C. 2-2011

  193. @Joe~
    Like Ben Franklin said after the ratification of the Constitution in 1787 to a woman who asked 'what kind of government have you given us, Doctor Franklin?'

    BF~ "A republic, madam, if you can keep it."

    It takes informed citizenship. Here's one place you can learn what's needed to keep it.

  194. I am hooked, I can't get away from this site.. I think I can cancel my cable tv now and stop buying into the corporate run monopolized meda. I really enjoyed this video, it has been a serious eye opener and a serious alteration in my state of consciousness. I enjoyed it so much I'm thinking of going deeper into the subject and might get involved in the local chapter.. thanks every much for such a great site and all the hard work you put into it so we can educate ourselves. With all the junk out there today its good to see an outlet that opens ones mind and helps one become more.

  195. *those who were too busy shopping with their credit cards 7 days a week to even pay attention"
    Excuse my French!

  196. It is easy to see that this doc does not have the answer to the disfunction of the world. No doc ever will. The day the solution comes, it will be written about AFTER it happens, if we still care to talk about the past knowing it does not exist...Quantum sciences's opinion.
    What this doc brings is the excitement of thoughts in all direction for those who have already been interested in the subject and those who were too busy to shop with their credit card 7 days a week to even pay attention.

  197. @boyinblue.i found this site much by accident and share the same perspective.as you.thanks to you and this informative site that i can feel i'm not alone on my journey to self-awareness and the environment in which we all live

  198. If this video is half decent then how was it necessary to include graphic images of animal torture? I am disgusted.

  199. Beautiful!
    Thank you so much for this!
    I am spreading this around!

  200. @Diego 321 and 328. Your opinion & your right to say it; my opinion and my right to say it. Impasse. I'm willing to fill in a few blanks. Narcissism re: extreme selfishness and indifference to others, from #321 "the hell with them. I'm going to take everything I want from this world now...". The reference to QM was the suggestion (I was stretching) that you 'threw down the gauntlet', so to speak with the idea that you only need to care about yourself. Had you said what you did in #328, that would not have been included.re:portmanteau? I don't see it. Again, my opinion only,some of the teachers in my life have been First Peoples, who managed successful societies for a very long time in my region; one of the philosophies responsible for that success is the recognition that what we do today has potential impact on future generations, therefore, it is all our responsibility to be certain that our actions respect the needs of the future. Do you hunt down the pregnant moose because your family has not had meat for weeks? Not an easy answer; if the moose population has been devastated recently, the answer is no, you don't hunt it - boiled roots again for supper :)

  201. most dangerous propaganda movie now being franchised.

  202. After watching this documentary and reading more about the zeitgeist movement, I can't help but feel this idea of everyone living in perfect harmony is impossible. One major problem I have with this movement, is the fact that humans will be expected to do next to no work and have plenty of time to do what they like. Instead of 'earning' our keep, all of our needs will be given to us on a silver platter. People talk about the younger generation being selfish and having everything handed to them... i can only see this type of civilisation being much worse!

  203. Resource Management = Permaculture
    check it out.

  204. I highly recommend listening to:
    Peter Joseph Interviewed By Alex Jones Parts on YouTube
    It is a great interview (or a horrible interview on AJ's part) as it gives
    PJ points to elaborate upon, thanks to the stimulation that
    Alex generously supplies.
    I think that we are going towards a consciousness evolution revolution and competition will fall away as the NEED to be FEARFUL or GREEDY will no longer be CHOSEN based on scarce resources as a stimulus. We are more than animals and we can chose love, compassion, creativity to solve the opportunity that exists in a finite system.
    Alex says we are genetically tied with animals to be competitive out of fear and a desire to survive. I side will PJ in that we can evolve our response to our desire of surviving by working together, not for money, but for the betterment of oneself and All as All are connected.
    The Earth is a living organism and if you have studied chemistry, biology, physics, anthropology, cause and effect, or if you see satellite pictures of human civilization's impact on the land and water. Our behavior is identical to a virus that consumes and consumes to the detriment of the host and even its own survival. Matrix was right, Peter is right. I don't think PJ gives much credit to how higher-level ideas like love and Reasoning, courage, peace, joy, willingness as being the incentive to move away from a money/scarcity condition of living to CONDITION ourselves to chose higher states of existence, because of these beautiful qualities.
    Not sure if we need to have it should be run by a computer. I think a master computer is needed to make decisions for those who can not evolve their consciousness to choose Reason. I think computers can be used, of course, but as tools not a computer that does our thinking for us.
    Conscious Evolution is the key.

  205. I hope I'm not alone here in having a severe problem with the graphic content in this video, namely a live skinned dog.. Am I the only one who has a problem with this? I hope you have not all been so desensitized by the medis that you don't see this 5 seconds of this video as completely unnecessary.. Please someone agree with me.

  206. too bad they used 'binaural beats' and 'neural sound effects' in this, the info is good but it WILL effect in ways you never knew existed ;-/ do lookup 'binaural beats'!!!!!

  207. Fantastic website!

  208. @Diego~
    Who used "4chan inspired portmanteaus" in here without permission?
    Jo aka polar jo? That's technically not a portmanteau? Here's a few free ones on the house.

    ’Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
    Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
    All mimsy were the borogoves,
    And the mome raths outgrabe.

    Hey! You're right! They do make a person sound childish. I stand correctal.

  209. @Jo aka polar jo

    I love plenty of people. Like me none of them will live to benefit or suffer in the society of the distant future. So I will do whatever I need to ensure a good life for them now not 100 years from now.

    Monumental social change takes a long time. It will be the inheritance of generations that will have long since forgotten us as people and regard us as backwards, quaint, a curiosity, nostalgia, etc... I will not spend the precious time I have now on any of them. There are far too many things to do for me and the people I love in the present.

    I am not sure what you meant by narcissism. It has no context in my previous comment. Maybe you were eluding to my comment of let the best ape win. Perhaps you thought I assume myself to be the 'best ape' when in fact I was making a cheeky reference about letting evolution take its course.

    I am also unsure about your reference to the uncertainty principle and entanglement. Again I have to make an assumption that you were talking about Heisenberg's principal and maybe quantum entanglement. I can only guess but I hope not because I have no clue how either of those things are relevant here.

    As far as luck goes. I don't believe in it. Just like I don't believe in magic, Santa clause or the tooth fairy.


    I can not think of anyone that hates me in the present. This is because I live life in the present with them and for them. If the people of the future wish to hate me for my actions they are free to do so. I will not be bothered by it.

    In closing 4chan inspired portmanteaus make people sound like children.

  210. @Diego~
    So you say...but in the meantime...gotcha nose!

  211. The first part really tries hard to point to environment as the cause of pathology. But a lot of research done the past couple of years shows that at least psychopathology is genetic in origin. This explains why people who have had perfect childhoods can still become psychopaths, and why there is not a single case of a psychopath having been "cured".

    This documentary helps this part of the population hide their presence, and gives people who have to put up with psychopaths believe that they can "change" psychopaths. This simply isn't true.

    It is a shame that PJ refers to science as the way forward and then goes on to ignore it.

  212. @Diego - This all might not mean much to you when you are gone, but being hated by almost everyone who truly knows what a pig you are while you are alive must really suck.


  213. @ F@Head - very well said. @Lary Nine #320 That is absolute Gold! LOL @ Diego - someday you just might love somebody (human, animal, mineral, ocean, etc); while narcissism may have perks now, there is a tendency (maybe the uncertainty principle or entanglement) that as 'soon' as one says "Never", never comes to visit ... best of luck to ya :)

  214. @Lary Nine

    This great shytelist of history and scallywag day will mean nothing to me after I'm gone.

  215. @Diego~
    You are as crassly self-indulgent as an unrepentant Hummer SUV driver.
    May your ancestors inscribe your name on The Great Sh*tlist of History and memorialize you on Scallywag Day every year till cometh the end days.

  216. If there are any solutions to the problems humanity has heaped on itself. I will most likely not live to experience their benefits.

    I have no fairy tale illusions about an afterlife, reincarnation, or any type of alternate existence after death. So I see no need to make an effort to make life easier for those who will exist long after I'm dead. The hell with them. I'm going to take everything I want from this world now. If that means taking it from the rest of you then may the best, hairless, talking ape win.

  217. Hooray for SCIENCE - it really is going to SAVE US. Like Jesus, only without God. sorry, but this whole 'science is perfect' idea is wearing thin. Science has no ego? Neither does religion or politics - only people have egos. Scientists do have egos and presuming they, and only they, do not - is RIDICULOUS.
    Anybody look into pharmaceutical industry lately? It's very scientific and very deceptive. Want autism? Get a mercury vaccine.
    AIDS got a nod - Here's how to treat AIDS - don't take any meds. Eat good food. Ignore HIV tests. HIV doesn't cause AIDS.

    On the other hand, I sure like seeing something positive without being blinded by the MS propoganda. I hope Zeitgeist movement works - it's not a bad future. But I really don't believe this techno-vision of a perfect future. And, even if possible, I don't see any path from here to there.

    I think we're going to have to go through an agrarian reinvention - growing our own damn food instead of the shit they're calling food. Then, maybe, maybe, our grandkids can see this kind of future. But it's a loooong way off - and probably never will happen.

  218. Another long-time TDF watcher here. I gave up cable a few years ago. This and a handful of other doc and arts/culture sites are the only spots I bother with. Great work, Vlatko.

  219. @Billy Ryder~
    In this very imaginative post-apocalyptic America, there's no city # between Portland and Boston? Portsmouth doesn't exist anymore?

  220. 2247 A.D., Circular City #22 (Former City of Bangor, Maine, United States) HEADLINE...Another raiding party from the former downeast portion of the former state of Maine entered the energy ring of Circular City #22 today, causing sporatic power outages. Twenty-seven unarmed city residents were killed by the raiding party, raising again the issue of whether residents of #22 should be permitted to create a private armed militia. One grain tower was also partially destroyed from a detonation device, presumably planted by the downeast raiders. It is not known how much actual grain was taken, as the tower censor was also destroyed in the fiery explosion. the city's central database has routed power around the grain tower until further notice.

    City #21 in former Portland, Maine has also experienced sporatic power outages today. Citizens have pondered over whether the attacks on various Northeast cities are part of a larger coordinated attack by the downeast raiders, or if the Centralized Party in former Boston (City #20) are behind the violent excursions as part of another one of its sponsored false flag outings. In either case, the downeast raiders have been known to accept supplies, explosives, weaponry and even gold from the Centralized Party.

  221. Zeitgeist ... Moving to Type 1 Civilization ...

  222. Here are my random thoughts from watching this film...

    I believe the solutions proposed in this video will be adopted once we reach a point where there is no other choice.

    I disagree with the extensive focus on automation. The 'hunter gatherer' societies (and Mormons) based their lives around reeping what they sow. Also, there is an intrinsic value in feeling connected to the land you grow food on. So, at least for farming, I think people should still 'work,' or volunteer. Automation also loses it's face value (literally). Human to human interaction is necessary for social reproduction/interaction. Furthermore, how much more energy would it take to create/run all the automated machines?

    We can't forget the developments that have already taken place too. Fair trade, co-operatives, environmentally conscious enterprise are some small steps to planetary betterment. Real change starts with altering the consciousness/set of beliefs/mindset of consumers...they don't know how much 'power' they wield.

  223. sorry, but this whole 'science is perfect' idea is wearing thin. Science has no ego? Neither does religion or politics - only people have egos. Scientists do have egos and presuming they, and only they, do not - is RIDICULOUS.
    Anybody look into pharmaceutical industry lately? It's very scientific and very deceptive. Want autism? Get a mercury vaccine.

  224. :) still smilin ... @Maxwell, thanks for the links to the Permaculture videos; I have been looking for more of this.

  225. @Erutan~
    Maybe so, but you've just managed to be perfectly pessimistic.

  226. Who the hell will let you create a society where everyone gets enough to survive? It's nature and you can't fight it. The lucky ones will survive... The cowards will survive... The liars will survive... Because they know no boundaries and in a situation when your moral becomes an obstacle you'll choose the moral decision, not the rational one. They'll bend, they'll change their moral to suit the current scenario and they will ultimately survive. Morality s a dying cause. Make as much money as you can and believe me. Money can save your life. Money can make you live longer. In the future maybe it'll be able to make you live forever. So make money and stop dreaming about heaven. Here on Earth it's hell and it's always been this way. You can't change it... Face the truth! I know it's not pretty and comforting but sorry... So is life...
    Perfect society can not be achieved by man. If you want a perfect society make a society of machines. No feelings,no love, no hatred, no needs... But in the end it's not life,eh? Irony... My dear irony...

  227. Built it and they will come...

  228. @ghostdogguy~
    Read your reply and understood. I don't dispute the power of positive thinking nor the idea that positive thoughts can influence the human immune response. If it comes down to it, surely it's best to have both penicillin and happy thoughts to cure an infection. All I object to is the advertising of "I-Renew" which is a proven scam simply because it doesn't sell the idea of postive thinking, (which is already done in a thousand other market iterations), it sells a bracelet and uses false claims to do it. Anyway. You obviously are sincere and if there's one thing I can't argue with, it's sincerity. But I'll always be suspicious of any vibrating remedies for anything except stiff muscles.

  229. @Lary Nine
    I'm glad you posted the wikipedia definition of New Age, seems accurate and I enjoy the sythesis of East meets West, in my experiences and understandings.
    I do have to say that your example of the bracelet that is supposed to heal or maybe raise "vibrations" of an organsim, should NOT be something to latch onto as evidence of
    incorrect or even destructive existence. I would advise any person to question how purchasing an object can change or heal their life. I actually don't have a problem with a bracelet being sold as a healing bracelet, if it brings healing to a sick person, which they value enough to part with money. or maybe I do. First off, if a person BElIEVES in the bracelet they will change their physiology with the power of their thoughts. Very Simple and not widely known or understood. that is where the experience comes into play. Now, I teach and study that Thought is Cause, therefore we do not necessarily need to buy health/wellness products to be, get healthy, heal sickness, or change brain chemistry from depression to peacefulness. The power behind the bracelet is the thoughts, pure and simple. This may be a simple explanatory test to help with my theory: Think about a movie showing in a theater, two different people, with two totally different reactions. One person has a joyfilled reponse, the other repulse or disgust. Now think about the neurotransmitters/hormones released, blood pressure, digestive reactions etc. and which person would have a lower immune system tolerance, who might pick a fight with someone, who might get the girl(I like that last one) or get a job/promotion? One event, two different responses that will have infinite ramifications, unless another event:response happens that is different.
    Now people profitting? As long as people are happy, No need to hate. Could people/customers be happier if they knew
    that they were the agent of change/healing? YES! So go out there and start teaching people that THEY are the real source of power/healing and you will understand why I-renew is popular, forgiving them, and help evolve the consciousness of humanity to not have to rely on people, places or THINGS for peace, contentment and prosperity, and of course Healing.
    look up the School of Metaphysics if you would like to learn more about what I speak of. My reason for trusting metaphysics is that I trust myself and I put value in experience. I also want to remind all people that metaphysics is about Thought or consciousness or the intangibles that influences everything around us.
    I don't think that Peter Joseph respects this phenomena, but it is the only thing that is going to "get" us to change. The intagibles like belief systems is what effects our world and keeps us in bondage or sets us free. PJ's desire for us to be "educated" sounded creepy/Marxist to me, but it was his tone that belies his belief that it needs to be "downloaded" without the needless waste of human emotions or spiritual experience. I believe that we DO NEED an education if we are to save our species/planet, but we must Want it and only through one on one teaching/reaching can this take place. I think PJ believes we can overstep that need. Caring/compassion works, because nobody cares what you know, until they know that you care.
    Sorry Lary Nine, may have digressed a bit, because at once I was talk to you and then I addressed others.
    I appreciate you and our healthy discourse.

  230. Mindblowing as always! I can't believe I had to find out about it here, this needs more publicity. Really hoping this catches on, have reviewed and reposted on my site.

  231. @ghostdogguy~
    The capitalized term 'New Age' refers to a specific thing as opposed to 'a new age' which could be any new historic time period. Out of curiosity, I looked it up on Wikipedia. Here's how it begins the description:
    ["The New Age movement is a non-religious Western spiritual movement that developed in the latter half of the 20th century. Its central precepts revolve around "drawing on both Eastern and Western spiritual and metaphysical traditions and then infusing them with influences from self-help and motivational psychology, holistic health, parapsychology, consciousness research and quantum physics".]

    As such I have no unsavory associations in my memory of it, in fact, I had several "New Age-type" girlfriends when I went to school in California. They left me with pleasant memories.
    Having said this, the reason I asked about your use of the idea of "vibration" is related to New Age. Why? I'm reminded of commercials that I've seen running on TV lately about a hi-tech looking bracelet called "I-Renew" being demonstrated and sold to customers at a shopping mall. I looked them up online...I-Renew Industries and traced their business history. They have several pending claims for fraudulent practices already being litigated against them. Obviously, there is absolutely no science whatsoever supporting their wildly fantastical claims about the healing properties of this 'bracelet'.
    I believe these profiteers of execrable pseudo-science are nothing but predatory hucksters who are guilty of clear crimes against a gullible public and ought to be compelled by law to cease marketing this blatant snake oil in a trinket.

    This is why I'm sceptical about psuedo-science. I know what real science is and extra-naturalistic claims about bracelets, beads, crystals, pyramids, voodoo, séances, Tarot card readings, astrological readings, Hindu fakirs, I-Renew talismans and such do not rise to that standard.

  232. @ Ghostdogguy
    No way, someone who is down and depressed has a faster metabolism and circulation?
    Sorry if I read into that wrong, I do not understand molecular / cellular levels.

  233. @ Lary Nine
    Hey Larry.
    You ever see someone alive with energetic loving smiles or someone down in the dumps? Wouldn't you say the former was vibrating higher or faster on the molecular/cellular level in reference to metabolism, circulation, computation than the former? I believe there are many studies that prove this, especially brainwave patterns/metabolism linked with thoughts or addiction to substances or depression. It is science, even if it may be called New Science.
    I'm not sure what connotation you have with the phrase "New Age", but it seems like a New Age is a neutral and/or a good thing to me. Some people use the capitalized adjective of "New Age" as a way to discredit what ever it is linked to.
    I was just curious if the idea of New Age is unsavory to you.
    I actually do study metaphysics at a school, studying the connection between all qualities in the Universe, like science and religion. I recall the Buddhist monk brainwave study that fellow scientist performed on many of these participants to see how spiritual discipline in the form of meditation influences biology. Only in the West do we separate the spirit from the physical, if we recognize spirit at all. The East sees them as one in the same. Dan Rather covers that story and you can find it on youtube.

  234. @Ghostdoguy~
    So basically..."God helps those who help themselves".
    I 'get' your point...with this exception. What's your 'improve vibrationally' reference al about?
    "I do believe that we are souls on this planet to improve
    vibrationally by learning lessons."
    Is this a metaphor or a reference to some New Age physics of personal physiology?

  235. This reminds me a lot of R. Buckminster Fuller's speeches and books.

  236. @ Munk
    @ PJ the minor
    I like the cut of your jibs.
    I think a conversation is what this documentary is good for.
    These are only ideas. Everything is ideas and therefore subject to change or evolution. I am not speaking of moving from capitalism to socialism to marxism or any of the -isms, but to self-awareness. I think the ZG movement is about evolving and it is pointing in that direction. The reason I applaud it is because the creators like Jacque etc. are striving for something higher than fear, hate, greed, jealousy and that is wonderful. However, I think that we human Beings, actually have to have free will and choose higher states of being like honesty, courage, peace, truth, and love.
    A computer program sidesteps our evolutionary process and I do believe that we are souls on this planet to improve
    vibrationally by learning lessons. We have to choose to become aware, to see the patterns to make different choices and to Learn. This Earth is one big classroom and the ZG computer, I believe is just a calculator for elementary mathematics. Learning is not easy, but facing it it actually appears to become easier, because we choose to become stronger. Running, fighting, blaming is weakness and leads to continuation, making it all insurmountable.
    A journey of a thousand steps starts with one, the mountain begins to shrink if we turn and face it with a movement forward. I applaud the ZG movement, because it is an idea forward, now lets all add our genius to this piece of clay and get on with creating heaven on Earth.
    Don't we get it yet? We are made in the IMAGE of our Creator, in other words we are POWERFUL CREATORS. You can try this experiment at home sit on your couch and watch t.v. and see how you feel OR turn off the t.v./computer and build something with your kid/neighborhood kids or write a letter to a long-time, but distant friend. You too can create heaven on Earth or just imagine Hell is here for good.
    peace, love, gratitude

  237. I do not see anything different from communism except, instead of social justice, it would be environmental sustainability.
    I mean, it appears to be nothing more than the same utopia dreamed of by Marx and Lennon. Just substitute "Financial Inequality" with "Environmental Sustainability".
    As with any system where individual rights are stripped for the betterment of the many, there is an inherent "Abuse of Power" aspect that no one seems to notice until it is too late. As with communism the dream becomes more of a religion and there-for more important than an individual.
    Who would be the leader after the revolution? Stalin maybe?
    Can you trust any "Government" with your life? Especially if your life is less important than the individual?

    One more thing - There was a line that said "There would be no more needing to work. No more need for money."
    The major downfall of communism was the lack of incentive for the common man to do anything. So they wouldn't. People lost the desire, or the will, to be productive.
    There are several more identical comparisons I don't want to get into here. I beg you to look into any of the "Utopian" models. Some never got off the ground. others have been tried. They all had a built in fault. --- Individuals can not be discounted.
    Individuals make up the "Proletariat" or "Public".

  238. Yes, there is life beyond what you see on YouTube and other solutions to the problems that face us. This doesn't mean that we can't take the good parts of Venus and use them as part of the solution. Venus is simply too exclusionary for me, and I suspect for many others. Subscribing to the will of a few is what we have right now - Venus basically proposes the same thing, just a different set of elitists. Coincidentally both sets of elitists seem to think the dumb masses are too dumb to collaborate on their own solution! Debate people, intelligent debate and action will help towards the goal. What would be really useful is if movements like this would stop being exclusionary movements and rather forums for all of us (like minded or not) to get together and throw ideas around. There are crazy smart people out there who keep a lot of thoughts to themselves - we need to encourage an open flow of ideas if we are to help ourselves.

  239. So if the Venus system is flawed and the monetary system is inevitably going to collapse, is there another solution?

  240. Alright. I was prepared to flame this documentary for the abundance of extreme leftist clichees. I mean, they would have no parties, no opinion allowed not even to drive a car, nature itself is a dictatorship and so on. And in the end of course, the world revolution, the erotic dream of Marx.
    But nevermind that, I started reading your posts here, and you really cheered me up. I am so relieved that there are still enough people with sane thinking. Thanks guys, cheers!

  241. Can someone please concretely answer what TZM would do with people who don't subscribe to their mantra, if TZM were running the show? I constantly read criticisms from followers of "oh, you're so negative and entrenched", brainwashed, etc. Can you not even see how you are the same way just oriented slightly differently?

    For instance - I strongly dislike the fractional banking system we have and agree it is unsustainable. However, I also strongly dislike the idea of delegating decisions to computers. I have no interest in taking too much or living inharmoniously with nature - quite the contrary. I want a cabin in the bush, where I can grow my own food and produce my own power. I don't want your "community" food, power, or stuff (I hate stuff!). Would I be free to do such a thing or is it conform or die? I would not be contributing to overall society, so would I still be "free" to pursue my own goals? Or would I simply be viewed as abhorrent and in need of re-education? Brave new world it seems...

  242. The NGM and five biological laws, Bruce Lipton and the 1. part of the film clearly indicates that the environment is key and not genes. So the story about eugenics is irrelevant. Why? Because you have environment that is producing super-humans in the start, and not by selecting man and women who are gene adecvate. So what to do? i dont say that the Venus project is the best possible solution but it is the far more advanced idea yet. I think we all agree that this system isn’t working very well for the humans and for all other spies on the planet. So lets get involved and fix the issues that are wrong in the venus project. That is the beauty of the system, give a suggestion and discuss it with others. But dont attack the people who are coming up with ideas but improve the ideas. Peace

  243. The NGM and five biological laws, Bruce Lipton and the 1. part of the film clearly indicates that the environment is key and not genes. So the story about eugenics is irrelevant. Why? Because you have environment that is producing super-humans in the start, and not by selecting man and women who are gene adecvate. So what to do? i dont say that the Venus project is the best possible solution but it is the far more advanced idea yet. I think we all agree that this system isn't working very well for the humans and for all other spies on the planet. So lets get involved and fix the issues that are wrong in the venus project. That is the beauty of the system, give a suggestion and disscouse it with others. But dont attack the people who are coming up with ideas but improve the ideas. Peace

  244. if your moaning about the NWO thing, i assume you listen to Alex Jones, listen and watch the interview he does with Peter Joseph, its very revealing. this is @ you Moe Sawed

  245. This film = NWO...

  246. To say this is a conspiracy theory is plain insulting to the people who gathered the information to put it together.
    It seems most of you here want to complain about the Venus project, which shouldn't be labelled a "utopia" because that is taking it out of context. How about the brilliant job this video did explaining the tremendous problem with the monetary system?
    Judging by the negative reaction, and putting this with the extreme unity that would be needed to make something like this happen, I am beginning to believe we are f*cked.
    I will soon visit my local Zeitgeist chapter, if the turnout is small I will lose faith and jump on board with all the people who have no faith in humanity. If we really are being treated like cattle, I guess the least we can do is complain about it :)

  247. Why do people destroy words? That so many people do it to so many simple words and phrases is just... unpleasant.


    It is very obvious that this movie is based on conspiracy theorist, schizophrenic people and psychopaths.

    - While there is at least 12 things wrong with this that I can see; conspiracy theory.

    Why does this one near ALWAYS get bandied around as if it is somehow a witty insult vs. deficient mental aptitude/function?


  248. my first comment ever.
    Very eye opening doc, I will watch it more times, Its really really sad to see that half the world is dying from starvation while the other half dying of obesity and greed, I have realized that the system is the devil itself which brainwashes its citizens into thinking what is right and what is wrong.
    Ever since I found this website I'v been in love with it and I'v stopped watching T.V all up.
    Keep up the good work, I'v watched most of the doco's here and will continue to watch until I'v seen all of em and will let all my friends and associates know.

  249. @Vlatko i always come here to watch documentaries mainly on the topics of science,you should have different sections for different categories.just a thought.and thanks for creating such a marvelous site!

  250. Oh, come on guys give me a break!!! Can't you see that these guys are quasi-scientists and if there are some good scientists in this movie they are pooled out of context. It is very obvious that this movie is based on conspiracy theorist, schizophrenic people and psychopaths.

  251. More people should watch this on this site. I wish it had a counter. This video was on YouTube yesterday with over a million hits in just a couple days and getting hundreds of comments a minute. Now it has been deleted. Ever since YouTube was sold to Google its lost its integrity.

    Anyway I want to say I love this site. This is another great documentary here. Its a real shame that more people haven't heard of it. In my opinion these films should be shown in every school across the world.

    I always thought it was funny.. People "think" they want the truth.. These Zeitgeist films explain the blunt truth as clearly as possible yet people don't want to hear it. It goes right through many people. They try to pick something thats wrong with it and then dismiss everything.

    Sadly people have been so brainwashed for so long that many have almost totally lost the ability to think critically. You can lay the truth right in front of someones eyes and they won't see it. Maybe people don't want the truth deep down. These people are controlled by fear.

  252. @Lary; Thank you! your comment 282 is part of my same ideal of American isolationism. People always talk about the massive debt we have what about the untold billions if not trillions we sent out in foreighn aid? was that all a gift? If not maybe if they pay us back we can pay ours back.

  253. We have to start recovering America's strong domestic health by reducing our outlandish monetary footprint abroad via foreign aid. But that means giving up our addiction to influence and scaling back on our illusions of empire in a world of emerging moral equals! Equals? Yes, because in a modern democratic world, countries are ranked by their commitments to liberty as well as their GDPs.

  254. @Ghostdogguy
    great response. i agree things need to change even tho we might disagree on the methods of change. the problem i have with ideas like zeitgeist is not idea itself but the probability of success. i feel that such a drastic change will have just as drastic a resistance to the change. as i pointed out in a much earlier post i feel that if a few strategic areas resist this change (by strategic i mean resource rich countries) that the idea falls apart. and i have yet to get an answer from anyone of what to do with those who do not want to go along. if forceful adherence is condoned then count me out. now to end on a positive note. i applaud any person or group that is working for positive change and best of luck to all. i am of the mind that change will be best served by many small incremental steps but i will admit that there might not be enough time for such a long process

  255. btw, I prefer a permaculture society to contrast or augment
    the "utopian" highly engineered AI society. It is
    efficient and possibly a little too simplistic for most, but
    don't some of the purest authentic joys come from
    the simple and free things in life, like creating, building,
    having relationships and see things grow like plants, animals, people, things that you can actually put your
    self into creating?

  256. I have read the comments above and how this society would not be possible, as the ZG movement proposes. And I agree it is not possible...
    at the current state of consciousness. There would
    need to be a shift from selfish fear-based economy to
    an expanded sense of awareness and oneness with Self and all of the life in the Universe. That would have to be the Shift, otherwise we fight, compete out of fear or, should I say, ignorance to our true connection with each other.
    The Golden Rule is an extension of the Rule of Nature. If we could just follow the rules of nature, as in everything I do effects everything around me and returns back to me, then we would be doing much better.
    We think we live in a vacuum, isolated and separated and actually trying to fulfill this paradigm. This philosophy is the old state of consciousness and it isn't sustainable, it serves as an internal kill-switch. Animals/animal populations have this, that is why they stay in check. We have the capactiy of evolved consciousness to be able to choose to move out of animal-man
    mindset into a higher plane of reality/experience.
    We are faced with this choice now. What will you do?
    See you on the other side. It is beautiful.

  257. @over the edge
    Yes, thank you. I have not studied New Harmony's history yet, I was projecting my own idea of "utopian" living onto their site mostly.
    From the statement you quoted I believe what was missing was a common unifying purpose and/or not enough chill-axing. A unifying Zeitgeist if you will, like the Amish have, but with a different slant like working together towards conscious evolution as in Zen Buddhist communities, where material and spiritual are one in the same. I wonder if New Harmony was focusing too much on the material as science and quality of living as something to unify by, there needs to be some unifying spiritual idea, (before anyone reacts, not a Theocracy around religion) something beyond mortal man's desire for ego edification. Thanks over the edge, I need to choose my words better and/or research New Harmony before choosing that as an example. btw, failure is only lessons not learned. We can still learn, therefore New Harmony need not be a failure, but a stepping stone towards something greater. Thanks

  258. I give the credit to this doc for asking the right question, that the current social system has certain deep rooted problems that push it to its end. But I cannot agree with the proposed Utopian solution. The central idea is to maximize global efficiency. Everyone perform what he should do for the best of common good, and receive what he needs to receive in order to prosper. However, such social system is inherently unstable. Examples are the social animals, where collaboration between the individuals do exists, it never approaches the global optimization even with millions of years of natural selection. Although every individual can behave as collaborator for the common good, if there is one free raider who enjoy but not contribute, he will outperform all others in its reproduction fitness, thus spawning such 'selfish gene' to undermine the society, and there is no way that thus can be stop except those collaborators stop to be at maximum efficiency but do something else to defend themselves against free raider. Such defense and free raiding will reduce the overall efficiency of the society, but this is what is usually achieved in social animals. Such problem is discussed in the book 'The Selfish Gene' by R. Dawkins. A dynamically stable social system which can revert to its equilibrium state when the structure is disturbed, is usually not the globally optimized system.

    And human, as a intelligent social animal but animal in nature anyway, suffer also from such limitations of selfish gene. It is the "good" will to collaborate and "selfish" will to exploit combined that make us human, also the human society. To constructing a society by completely depriving the selfish side of human nature is impractical. It is simply impossible to make human as a working part in a huge social machine. Such attempts have failed many times in history. There will be no Utopia as long as we are still human.

  259. @Moderator

    You gotta keep em' sep-er-ated...

  260. @Achems Raz

    Will do. Right now.

    You know my 'button', you bastarrd.

    P.S. Madskillz says; 'up yours'

  261. @Fluffy.

    Thank you, if you want something even scarier, google..."Georgia guidestones"...in the heart of the bible belt, stands the "georgia guidestones" that the religee's have attacked as the ten commandments of the ant-christ. A culling of the human race?

    Illuminati maybe!..do not know.

  262. @Achems Raz #269

    Hmmm, not entirely sure I read your post right.

    Youre a scary bugger, I'll give you that.

  263. @Alchems Raz

    I'm actually a little curious re: Global Financial Crisis effect on other nations.

    In Au, after some big news 'hype', the majority of us (stoopid high income earners excluded) recieved an economic stimulus payout. On average, this was around $1000 - $1500 bucks. I personally got about $500, coz I have no kids. I can (and do) spend more than that on a single night out on the turps! I like to share a little, as well as 'tank' factor.

    Now, beyond that - NOBODY here has noticed ANY change whatsoever. None at all. Thing actually seem to have improved a little.

    Yes we have a small (shrinking) population, and we are mineral rich (double salary in mining ops vs equivelent job elsewhere - openings always available), which spells future doom for sure. But hey; some things are working right around here.

    Always have.

  264. @Achems Raz


    I have NEVER veiwed money as important beyond paying basic bills. I abuse it no end without a second thought as to who gets what. I really dont care, it's just plastic to me. I even have a tried and tested philosophy that 'bums' asking for 'bus' or 'food' handouts get nuffin', but if one actually says along the lines of 'I need money for booze/drugs' - I give em lots. Last dude got $100.

    Sounds naive and imature yeah? Well, it is a good head start on ones freedom.

    I dont collect vouchers (pay up extra $)

    I dont cash in dockets for x cents off fuel (pay up extra $)

    I dont own a mobile or other 'trinkets' (pay up extra $)

    I dont MIND buying the odd brand name item simply coz I like the thread/pattern (pay up extra $)

    Blah blah. Could go on forever making a seemingly terrible point.

    2 things;

    I now care about budget temporarily coz I need to buy a forrest in Tasmania (just to land the mortagage, dont care otherwise or afterwards).

    Not ALL Federal Reserves are PRIVATE. Australias ISNT. I HATE Zeitgeist for this, as even the average aussie who has seen it thinks that this is how it is universally.

    - Even though Oz trades with such FR economys etc, it makes a PROFOUND difference in economic stability.

  265. A lot of good talk, but lets face it, you's guyses are already "owned" by the enactment of the "Federal Reserve Act" from Dec, 23/1913, and by the enactment of the "Income Tax Act" that all you "Straw People" have to pay? to cover the interest the federal reserve charges to print money out of absolutely nothing!

    Besides, what are they going to do with all the body bags at the "Fema" camps? sell them on E-bay?

  266. too little too late so lets all just masterduhbate


  268. @Larry

    Would make a cool film set/reality series though.

  269. @Larry

    Coz if they dropped the Mafia act, they'd also drop into the 3rd world.

    Possibly even just by dropping the Drugz market alone. This would incite enough anachy to put the US under, truly. Thats why it (perhaps painfully), has not been done yet.

  270. I often wonder what would happen if the upper eshelon ruling elite really did own everything? Like, outright?

    What next?

    Just for a bit of controvisty (me likes), what say this has always been the ultimate plan of the true ruling elite? Most of whom stem back millenia, of course. Perhaps their idea IS utopia, in that their mass power base (bases now relatively united), is in order to outsource themselves/methods? The tenacity of man overcome via force?

    I mean, think about it. If they achieved what they are obviously after, COMPLETE control and ownership of everything from resource and Government (and us), what would a handful of people do with it? What use is money then if nobody has any?

    We fear that there would merely be control left. Absolute control. But does this mean that they suddenly wouldnt let us masturbate and listen to Metallica? I cant see this lot actually being religious, as I believe they invented it (as we know it). And the Nazi style police state etc? What for? There wouldnt be any more wars, coz there is nothing to gain. People being tranced out robots? What for? How would they then get to inovation etc in order to advance our species status and then go on to explore the galaxy? Where would the 'handful' get the next piece of art, literature or phorno?

    It is possible that they 'know' alot more than the rest of us and always have. Think about empire building and what was often at the core reasoning of such; the justification. Hitler was prolly a looney, but other examples such as Caesar? Alexander? etc. The playing field has changed, maybe the 'old school' are just a little more 'indirect'.

    Technically anyone has a chance at power (although a bit like lottery) due to the system, but the main 'crew' have always won out. And perhaps culled a few rivals from the in group too.

    I wonder also, how they feel about Bill Gates, Ruppie M or Mr Ikea sorts?

    Reckon they'd let em hang around their daughters?

  271. Here's a Q. that's a touch off-topic but not really...
    Why do we give Egypt 1.5 billion dollars a year in aid? Do you have any idea how much foreign aid we give away for some theoretical future global advantage? It doesn't seem to work since we just had to spend a total of almost a trillion in Iraq and Afghanistan over the past decade---two countries which receive huge yearly foreign aid allotments.
    My question is how can we "Move Forward" if we cut domestic programs yet continue to give away billions in foreign aid like some global Mafia Don trying to buy 'influence'?

  272. Thank You Vlatko!!!

    This is definitely a great site for lovers of knowledge.

  273. @arman

    Scuse, I havent read through the entire thread re: your conversation and I do respect your economic knoweledge - but at a guess (maybe already came up);

    Where do monopolies fit in?

    Au is not perfect, but you do know why Rupert Murdoch imigrated, yeah?

  274. Would anyone who has a clue about economic theory please step up and tell me in economic terms how I'm wrong?

  275. You guys make me feel good. You get angry, stereotype me, and can't even debate me. This generally means I win.

  276. @ mick
    I hear where you are coming from. I am so sick of the US needing to give their two cents worth in every situation, Egypt is none of their damn business.

  277. I think my link sent this to moderation - I'll try again...

    By the way, a song I wrote just before the current economic collapse which feels somehow more appropriate then ever. It is kind of my take on embracing the destruction of the old and working together to rebuild something better. …sample lyric “the vines are crawling up and over the stones, of the fallen temples and the idols’ bones. So take a hammer, take my hand. See beyond the giants to the promised land…”

    if anyone is curious, you can go here Myspace dot com slash saintnarcissus and listen to “These Ruins” you have to hang in there for a couple minutes for the true apocalyptic size of the song to arrive :)

  278. Hi tdf,

    very big fan..sorry it never occured to me to comment. I have seen almost all the videos and have suggested to a lot of friends to watch docs here..

    Keep up the good work !! really appreciate your time educating so many thousands. Its indeed a noble deed..

    Thanks again !

  279. Thanks again for another excellent film. If you haven't already seen the other ones - Go watch them. Things will never be perfect but these are real solutions to real problems. I'll do what I can to spread knowledge and also this film. Great Site.

  280. I heard prez obama on news today saying that america was not in the habit of telling other countries who should or should not be president -in relation to egypt -did this make any one else laugh out loud

  281. @Ghostdogguy
    why would you want to recreate new harmony if failed? a quote from Josiah Warren who was one of the original participants "It seemed that the difference of opinion, tastes and purposes increased just in proportion to the demand for conformity. Two years were worn out in this way; at the end of which, I believe that not more than three persons had the least hope of success. Most of the experimenters left in despair of all reforms, and conservatism felt itself confirmed. We had tried every conceivable form of organization and government. We had a world in miniature. --we had enacted the French revolution over again with despairing hearts instead of corpses as a result. ...It appeared that it was nature's own inherent law of diversity that had conquered us ...our 'united interests' were directly at war with the individualities of persons and circumstances and the instinct of self-preservation... and it was evident that just in proportion to the contact of persons or interests, so are concessions and compromises indispensable."

  282. I have seen the first two. The first one shocked me. The second one disturbed and confused me. This last one, I was ready to hear.
    The pain that I have been experience is just a refusal to do what I have known in my heart that I wanted to do all along.
    I want to walk away from the money worship and
    just provide for my needs and the needs of others.
    I believe permaculture is a way to have True Economy that is a Resource Based Economy. Anyone else believe this to be true? Permaculture is a servant of the "Dictator" that is nature just like PJ indicates.
    Can we all just get in harmony with the land and be okay?
    Should we have plastics and aluminum all around us? That
    kind of structure seems very complicated.
    Permaculture seems like an answer. It is communal and would feed people heart, mind and soul. Build your own home from natural materials, work with nature efficiently to produce abundance with minimal effort.
    I wonder if I could replicate New Harmony Indiana's utopian society that once existed?
    The Revolution is here.

  283. Oh - and regarding the nested theory that systemic change only comes about via individual change...guess who knows and exploits this effectively already? Corporations and those who market their products! They effectively impact individuals and influence subtle changes, which trickle upward to solidify and expand the rampant materialism and consumerism and selfishness that is destroying our planet (and our souls in my opinion).

    Lets take the power back and refuse those influences, replacing them with others.

    You might have noticed I seem to have caught a serious case of revolution fever. So be it.

  284. I have had some negative things to say, and I do stand by my criticisms, but I have to temper that by saying, I applaud the audacity. the most important thing that anyone can take away from this, which is totally true, is that collapse is not only inevitable or imminent, it is happening now! Watching another good doc on here, called the End of Poverty - that has a lot to say in greater depth about the centuries of manipulated and managed resources which have decimated human populations and is now unraveling everything. This awareness, apart from how practical or wild-eyed the actual Venus Project solution might be, is incredibly important. Awareness of the desperation of our situation cannot be overrated. No amount of hyperbole is excessive, and until people realize this and admit it...change won't begin. I must be honest and say that the timing of this film, and then the rolling revolution we are seeing in Tunisia, Egypt, Jordan, Yemen...who is next? These events give the film a more prophetic weight.

    So, I frankly don't think the hyper-technology oriented solution is the practical one, as it would take a century to implement, and as has been expressed...at what cost to those who disagree? death? However, with that said, the value of the film is tremendous. It is boldly demanding that the big picture conversation begin, and that it should transcend philosophy classrooms and be on the lips of every human being.

    Random quote - in thinking about the irresponsible immediacy with which we have consumed resources and built wasteful societies, I read a bit of wisdom from a Native American elder. Upon reflecting on the way settlers and encroachers decimated the land, stripped the earth in mines, razed forest, etc. he said something like, the white man murders his grandchildren to feed his children. Wow.

    Finally, I was in a meeting recently discussing young adults and where their hearts and minds are engaged, what is meaningful, etc. particularly where it intersects spirituality - someone noted a nesting theory about culture change which suggests that any real "system" or cultural change, never begins with the culture and then changes the individuals. Instead, impactful change can happen for individuals, individuals in relationship expand this, and when individuals and their relationships change, then the result is a cultural and system change. So this film is playing a real role in impacting and sparking individual change. Next? Hopefully relationships. For example...I am a follower of Jesus and his teachings, and this fact, this important part of my life has often rendered me persona non grata among those who seek radical change such as the Zeigeist movement adherents. We see the same evils, the same injustices, and we both, we all long for substantive change. For anyone reading this and engaged in this conversation...can we please set aside our assumptions about one another and work together? It seems to me that PJ has decided to move that direction and I'm glad.

    Revolution, baby!

  285. This is absolutely fantastic!

  286. @Joe Blow
    agreed. the "in" group has everything on their side. the media is too strong and people are too weak to see through a gradual plan of change without the media persuading them to do otherwise. if this society is to be attempted it would need to be through revolution. truth is, their army is our army and their money is our money. but their use of media and manipulation (to divide us)is the only thing that would stand in our way.

  287. @Billy Bong & Reasons Voice~
    Apologies to all and thanks to both. I'm a relative newbie to the comments section here at TDF and, since I've been around the internet for awhile posting elsewhere, I was sure I was doing something wrong. I get onto something that I don't understand and I become "one-track-minded" and almost obsessive in trying to resolve it. It's a bad habit of mine since parochial school days. Blame religion. ;~)

  288. TDF Nikka!!

    getting high and watch this may be too intense!!!

    xxx ye be warned xxx

  289. this is the most impressive part in this movie..that rings clear

    The "in group" will do all it can to stay in power and that is what you have to keep in mind.
    They will use the army, navy and lies or what ever they have to use to keep in power
    they're not about to give it up
    Because they don't know of any other system that will perpetuate their kind.

    Civil war needs to occur....and we need to systematically take out the "in group"

  290. The only thing is....this film ....seems to divert us from the fact that we are slaves and have about as much control over our lives....as chickens in a slaughter house.

  291. Also a silent repeat but am speaking now as this and PJ's other films helped lead me to Mr. Jacque Fresco who seems to have dedicated his whole life to creating solutions for the problems all people face. With grandchildren now, I feel and hope his ideas can one day come to fruition. I have become a member of TZM/TVP and support this awareness and this current generation. This generation is the culmination of our whole human history and I really feel this Resource Based Economy CAN become a new paradigm. What an exciting time to be alive for this part of our human journey.
    Keep 'Moving Forward' little brothers and sisters. Remember, most birthing processes can be pretty uncomfortable but in the end, we have a beautiful child.
    "A New Beginning is the start of a beginning's end"
    Peace, love and solidarity - Mamma D ^_^
    PS - Again, kudos and thanks f/t many wonderful/informative/intellectual videos :<)

  292. @Vlatko

    If one was inclined to donate to your site would they be able to?

    As many have expressed in this discussion you have brought enlightenment and entertainment to so many of us.. How do we give back?

    I'm getting ready to click every ad on your site, which isn't many. I'd happily make a donation if that was possible. I don't think I'm the only one.

    Thanks again!

  293. After seeing this I fear what the future holds for myself, my family and humanity on the whole. A resourse based economy founded on the principle of equality vs any variation of the current system wins hands down a 100 times over. One thing seems clear and thats that nothing good is set to come out of the current situation. The economy is a joke on the expense of all but a few. The term lifes not fair springs to mind and makes me wonder who will have the last laugth!

  294. boyinblue - you should be in politics

    And Vlat, I strongly suspect I'm one of the silent repeats :) love and thanks from the UK

  295. Thankyou for this wonderful film, i will spread the word as much as i can to others around me, i knew at the rate in which we currently waste our most precious resources that it wasnt gonna last forever, thankyou once again.

  296. old visitor to the site, first time commenter.

    svaka ?ast Vlatko, stranica ke fenomenalna. živio! ^^

  297. You will find that I offer no arguement on the education issue. It has become terrible. On the creationism issue I can't say for sure. I'm from NY which is a quite different world than one of the more progressive Christian states. I probably do differ on the solution than most of those who post here since my take is decidedly anti-teachers union. If one were to compare the amount of money that goes into our schools in relation to the outcome compared to other nations they would have to take antinausea medication. Some propese privatizing education which worked for your neighbor NZ quite well. However' I believe that competativeness can be accheived while retaining public funding. In the area where my nieces and nephews live students and parents can choose a local school for themselves without paying extra. That creates a level of competition between the schools that drives for better results. From all I can see they are getting a very good education. It actually exceeds the one I received back in the 80s 90s.
    I do feel though that the one overriding issue in the US that leads to almost all of the faults most critics see is an almost total lack of personal responsability in the people. That compounded with an inflated ideal of what it is to be successful. We have a kind of state of narccissistic self dillusion that undercuts any solid advancement in any large scale way.

  298. @Reason #236

    Yeah, that sounds right. I shoulda figured better on that one.

    I'm not happy with US education though. Ours is a little inflated too (OZ), but US's is quite alarming. Depends what statistical index you referrence, I guess.

    As in, it depends on what you define as satisfactory education. And not just numeracy, literacy, geography etc.

    Is there REALLY Intelligent Design being taught in some public schools in the US? Its just SO hard to BELIEVE.

  299. I have to differ on the issue of Healthcare in the US. Granted cost is a major issue. But cost is not what is factored in to it's status in terms of 3rd world 1st world theory. What is factored in is Quality and availability. On both scores the US is quite possible number one in the world, and if not number one top 5 at the least. Just because it has become a hot-button issue for the press and the government does not give an accurate depiction of it's status. I work in health care, I know both it's flaws and it's values. Anyone with a health issue in the US can be treated for said illness. You may argue cost, but take it from me, if you get sick just go to an ER claim you have no ID to show give a false name and address and you will be treated and never pay a dime. This happens every day in every ER across the country. As to quality, the US has been and is still one of the forrunners in medical breakthroughs in the world. Our medical system bosts top speciallists in every field of practice in abundance. Also due to the stringent US standards our facilities are clean and safe. Like I said I am deeply aware of the negative side, IE. cost and insurance issues. But in comparrison to most of the rest of the world? Our health care is very very good.

  300. @Reason

    re: China; Sure, thats what I meant (agree).

    re: US; fair enough. The 'few notches' requires a little elaboration.

    In our world's consensus, the USA is literally only a few 'ranks' above 3rd world countries in several areas such as Education and Healthcare. Obviously in the per/capita sense. Being any notch above (apart) from the 3rd world is quite a leap in quality of life though of course, as this simply means that you are on the recieving end of the 3rd world's exploitation. What they aint got, you do.

    Well, whatever the crusty corporations trickle down to our begging lusts which they have stimulated, that is.

  301. @Larry; Maybe if you just chill a bit and wait for your comment to post...? At this point you are probably being flagged by your frantic resubmitting of the same (if a bit rejiggered) comments. The moderation process is there so that the site does not degrade into a youtube style festival of Firsts, lolcats, and trolling.
    @Fluffy; To say the US is just a step above 3rd world status only shows you have no clue what 3rd world status is. I am not saying the US doesn't have it's problems but 3rd world it is not. Some times anti US rhetoric reminds me of many other forms of biggotry in that it becomes so overreaching in it's condemnation that it becomes laughable. China is very quickly becoming a global superpower and may well be the biggest influence on the planet in short order. Much of that is due to it's current state of industriallization and growth. Every nation that has embarked on a massive industrial movement has become an economic force.

  302. @Billy

    That makes sense.

    In the very least, there needs to be a transitional stage to avoid ending up pre-dark age. Which would of course, merely result in eventually becoming the very same issue as to which we have today. Or most likeley even worse...

    Anyone here know a good planet/moon to settle down on? I hear Europa is pretty, but I got a 'thing' about Oceans.

  303. Debt owns everyone here.
    The Venus Project is just ONE proposition, new projects could be worked on.
    I don't see that the monetary system collapsing bringing on a new project like this is very good at all. The monetary system collapsing will immediately bring on anarchy, we need a new system in place much sooner.

  304. love that u got special banner for the new zeitgiest! big ups

  305. If anybody ever had a website, or blog, they should know a website or blog, can get "flagged" for certain words that come up often. That is why certain words are censored on TDF.

  306. I'd also like to point out, besides that I like pointing things out, that money in istelf IS NOT EVIL.

    Money's integral flaw, which stands to this day, is that it is based mostly around a gold standard type. Now, gold is a pretty and useful thing, but this will get people confused at some point and leave the doors wide open to a bastardisation of such. To be fair, 5 minutes ago in 'civilisations' history; there was no accurate measure of a national GNP/GDP.

    Money, outside of the debt demon, is merely for convenience. It allows one to trade EFFICIENTLY. If you have a haul of potatoes to offer for legitimate trade, carrying around a wad o' cash instead of a quickly ripening sack of produce is simple logic. It is not just convenient, but reduces WASTAGE.

    In a Utopian society, there will still likely be some need for money, as some will be more pressed to inovate rather than spending all of their wonderful free time hauling cabbages around the place. And perhaps the volunteer party might get a little 'selective' when it comes to 'special' duties such as sewer maintenance. There is nothing wrong with a bit of extra reward for opting to do that sort of thing. Perhaps an extra 15 minutes on the communal yacht wont do it for everyone. Some legit luxuries will always be prized and limited, and there is your basis for making it worth your while (art, precious gems, antiquities etc). Food, power and shelter should be free, sure, but we still need SOME individuality yeah?

  307. @Nathan
    "Evil is simply a perception. Such things as selfishness exist because of the current system. Same as deceit, corruption and lying. They are all results of a failing system[.]"

    Again I think that Reason gave you the right answer in place of me. I also have to say I agree with his statement that you guys, especially Billy, must be pretty young. Just from the things you say.

    And don't jump the gun on your political policies just yet! You've still got a ways to go and you might feel entirely different about this whole zeitgeist thing when you're older. X) Which type of government to put yourself under is a really big decision. It's not something you'd want to trust to a teenager. For example! So keep that in mind before you support something like this. Think of your older more grown up self. I think most people grow up past the stage that the Zeitgeist guy is in. And even he seems to be growing up a little bit since he left his religious baloney completely out of the movie this time.

  308. What we can take away from ZeitGeist Movement are some very important social ideas that are missed. We will never move to a non-monetary system. ( At least not over night or anytime soon. ) But, it does throw out there alternatives and reasons to blame our problems on.

    This film will definitely have an effect on the future, based on one or a few of it's ideas, sooner or later.

  309. Hey yeah, Vlatko do you have an opinion on this documentary?

  310. hey Vlatko, you always stay out of discussions and/or stay neutral, but what is your personal opinion about Zeitgeist?

    And ofc, if you wanna stay neutral i understand...maybe its not a good idea as a moderator and creator of this great site to pick sides...

    Sooo? Good/Bad? And then why?

  311. @boyinblue

    Yeah, everything Morgan Freeman says is true. Same with Oprah.


  312. Oh, and nuclear power is our current substitute for inlandish communities to attain appropriate energy requirements. This was 'understandably' brushed over.

    Get over it.

  313. I'm sorry for my past cheek Vlatko. I take it (some... heh) back.

    This doc is pure inspiration, and like all its predecessors; it overcomes monumental censorship in all of its depraved forms. It is a one sided argument that is correct. However it has been done so by properly and impartially adding up the facts of our very existence, with a validated conclusion.

    I enjoyed the original Zeitgeists, but couldnt see them taking off properly due to the narrowly focused 'bashing' going on. Which was what I enjoyed (; . This version's refinement is inumerably more 'grown up' and 'sells' itself so well. Hmmm, I actually wonder how much of this notion that Peter Joseph considered on the outset. CONSPIRACY THEORY! FLEEEEEE!

    I only have one critique to add (I thought I had a few two thirds through, damnit), and that is Government. Now, I agree to a sciencey based Government system, yes, and that in greater or lesser degrees that nations Government is subject to monetary systems overarching influence; but one must consider the actual transition in between the now and the goal.

    Its not all fluoride and pointless committees, people (;

    And I'm still gonna play homebrand poker, but with the chips representing who gets 'support nano-reparative-technology' duties.

  314. I had lot of subscription emails from this thread earlier today and when I came here I only saw posts that I had already seen. There seems to be some sort of malfunction, I think you are pretty safe to say what you want as long as you aren't offensive or spamming. Maybe your threads will show up later. I noticed this problem a few months ago when in a heated debate with someone about a documentary here. I recieved two emails showing replies from him, both were getting to the same point but they were worded a little differently, I couldn't understand why, then when I visited the page there was a different response from him (still with the same point but worded differently) as he obviously saw his posts were not showing up, but I was recieving email alerts about them. Odd.

  315. @Billy~
    This makes no sense to me at all. I tried posting twice more with increasing edits for blandness and quotes. There must be some 'trigger word' that I don't know.

  316. One more time...totally sanitized:
    I’ve heard all about that “free market economy” stuff till I need to take a Dramamine before I watch Fox news! I understand your point very clearly. I disagree with you adamantly. I reject this idea (Milton Friedman famously said this) it’s “the neighbors’ responsibility” to help society’s needy. That’s utter nonsense. As a socialist, I don’t want to rely upon something as whimsical and irregular as human charity. Human charity is fine and dandy, but not as main remedy. Also, it endows the benefactor with a great feeling of self-validation…doesn’t it? I can sense the self-congratulatory tone in your quote. I’d rather have regular, regulated (those words are related) solutions to problems of unremitted, blameless poverty.
    But wait….isn’t it conservative economists who always say that socialism doesn’t work because of the unredeemable selfishness of human nature? So which is it? Are we selfish trolls turned loose in the marketplace or are we philanthropists with guitars? I don’t believe we are selfless, cherubic angels of charity nor do I believe we barbaric engines of greed that can’t share resources fairly. I believe in real politics and strong regulation to insure that your grandkids and mine have a future.

  317. I'll try once more.
    I’ve heard all about that “free market economy” stuff till I need to take a Dramamine before I watch Fox News! I understand your point very clearly. I disagree with you adamantly. I reject this idea (Milton Friedman famously said this) it’s “the neighbors’ responsibility” to help society’s needy. That’s utter nonsense. As a socialist, I don’t want to rely upon something as whimsical and irregular as human charity. Human charity is fine and dandy, but not as main remedy. Also, it endows the benefactor with a great feeling of self-validation…doesn’t it? I can sense the self-congratulations dripping from your quote. I’d rather have regular, regulated (those words are related) solutions to problems of unremitted, blameless poverty.
    But wait….isn’t it conservative economists who always say that socialism doesn’t work because of the unredeemable selfishness of human nature? So which is it? Are we selfish trolls turned loose in the marketplace or are we philanthropists with guitars, bearing gifts of high speed internet? (I have this image of Conquistadors offering beads and wampum to natives.) I don’t believe we are selfless, cherubic angels of charity nor do I believe we barbaric engines of greed that can’t share resources fairly. I believe in real politics and strong regulation to insure that your grandkids and mine have a future.

  318. @Billy~
    Thanks. I don't think you'd see it, would you? Anyway...it's weird because it was just a regular post with no links or rants. I think it got double-entered, too. I read the TOS for comments again and I noticed a few things that slipped my intial readthru...

  319. the type of society described has never existed. ever in recorded history. somehow i see people want to project their obscure notions of failed societies onto it. it's pitiful. it's always the self proclaimed intellectual or "better educated" person that wants to think they have the answer for everything. more so, they want everyone else to know that they have the answer. there is no answer. this is something that has never existed. don't be a fool.

    if you want to debate go visit mr. fresco and see if he doesn't tear your argument to pieces in seconds. this is one of the smartest men alive today and this is his ideal society. arguing with someone who has seen a 3 hour presentation is a lot different than finding fault with the idea itself.

  320. @ Lary Nine
    Not sure exactly what happened, but there are delays in comments being uploaded. I don't see any reason for your comments to be moderated here.

  321. Editor~
    Why are you "moderating" my comments? They are well reasoned, well written responses... they don't have any swear words or insults or objectionable content at all. I taught science and history for 30 years for crying out loud. I don't want to spend time writing these comments and then when I post them, they go to "Lala-land" to be lost indefinitely. With all respect for your excellent efforts, I've got better things to do with my expositional skills and internet time.

  322. @arman~ {below quote from arman's reply}
    "You know what I do in my spare time? I play guitar at a retirement home. I’m part of a local purchasing program for farmers who need to liquidate the produce that they couldn’t sell all of. I have a server set up so kids who are too poor to afford school can remote in and have hands on IT experience. I take care of my family by myself."

    I've heard all about that "free market economy" stuff till I need to take a Dramamine before I watch Fox news! I understand your point very clearly. I disagree with you adamantly. I reject this idea (Milton Friedman famously said this) it's "the neighbors' responsibility" to help society's needy. That's utter nonsense. As a socialist, I don't want to rely upon something as whimsical and irregular as human charity. Human charity is fine and dandy, but not as main remedy. Also, it endows the benefactor with a great feeling of self-validation...doesn't it? I can sense the self-congratulations dripping from your quote. I'd rather have regular, regulated (those words are related) solutions to problems of unremitted, blameless poverty.
    But wait....isn't it conservative economists who always say that socialism doesn't work because of the unredeemable selfishness of human nature? So which is it? Are we selfish trolls turned loose in the marketplace or are we philanthropists with guitars, bearing gifts of high speed internet? (I have this image of Conquistadors offering beads and wampum to natives.) I don't believe we are selfless, cherubic angels of charity nor do I believe we barbaric engines of greed that can't share resources fairly. I believe in real politics and strong regulation to insure that your grandkids and mine have a future.

  323. @ChrisP

    Definitely not a technological Utopia in any way, man. A social difficutly, yes. But the entire movement is based on the ground knowledge of hte possibility, and that it's not Utopian. It's not final, as everything changes (hopefully improves), nor is the idea perfect (natural disasters, mental and physical disease, human emotion and it's effects persist) and it's not impossible, just- to quote - breaking up is hard to do. We have ways, and boy are we set in them. But I don't think Utopia has anything to do with these ideas. I went to that screening as well, so your comment hit me. 820 people were there man! Free!

  324. I wont be responding again here, so don't waste your breath. Thanks.

  325. So many speak from an archaic mindset, so closed and they are so blind to their own ignorance, no matter how they justify it with words they are never open-minded.

    I see too many: Just let the world continue as is and let our children deal with it. And the: I'm just one person, I can't do anything.

    Sorry, but such ignorance is why humanity will ultimately kill itself, because no one wants to deal with the issues at hand right now, which are quickly adding up, they just want to live their lives and let someone else deal with it. I'd prefer to do the work so my children and their children can live a life with less stress and not dealing with our problems we have today.

    Simply using volunteering or running a business as an excuse is lame in comparison to the bigger picture of how we as organisms on this earth need to have a conscience paradigm shift to re-adapt our mindsets to become functional (not destructive) to our ecosystems with a sustainable plan, not the current path of destruction, before we collapse them from within before its irreversible.

    @arman -- Continue to play your guitar for the old folks, it will help them in their old age and will bring a smile to their face, but please pull your head out of your ass when comparing apples to crack cocaine.

  326. I am a practicing Clinical Psychologist. Most of what I do is therapy, however a lot goes into that such as research and a lot of implementation. Recently, about 7 months ago, I was reading an article that touched on the fact that bipolar disease may not actually be a genetic disease at all. After reading this I started doing research into this concept and behold there is some truth to it. Environments and life styles seem to be a bigger part of the bipolar epidemic than genetics. Just thought I would share that with everyone since this doc went into the concept and let you all know that there is some credable information out there proving it.

  327. Debt and it's accruing interest is enslaving the present and future generations of the have-nots everywhere on the planet.

    This system simply has to be changed. It is unfair and archaic.

  328. Children I find always ask why something is the way it is and after explanation will often respond by saying why isn't it this way... and although usually grandiose and exaggerated come up with great ideas. Kids are so sharp and maintain that clear undistorted thought process I find until high school when its time to grow up and make money. If you have a tough question, ask a child. You might be astounded by their answer. They will at least lead you in the right direction.

    I hope my kids don't see this end badly but I am concerned it might.

  329. @lary

    Like I said before, it's not up to the economy to support people. It's up to individuals. You can't honestly believe that money makes people greedy by itself and that a bunch of pieces of green paper are going to tell me how to treat people. You should take a look at voluntarism.

    You know what I do in my spare time? I play guitar at a retirement home. I'm part of a local purchasing program for farmers who need to liquidate the produce that they couldn't sell all of. I have a server set up so kids who are too poor to afford school can remote in and have hands on IT experience. I take care of my family by myself.

    I'm a free market capitalist. Trying to stereotype any group is nonsense. People in general are good, but selfish. This is natural. Some people are just raised with different moral standards, and some have to learn them through life. As long as I can support my family and send my kids to school, I'll gladly use the rest to help my community. This is by choice, not by mandate. If it was by mandate, it would filter through layers of garbage and bureaucracy and pretty much leave the community with nothing. I highly doubt many of the people in here that take this silly "documentary" as fact, have either never managed a business or donated an hour of charity.

    I'm not waiting for the world to change to suit my needs. I'm doing my part as we speak.

  330. @davidjuly
    You didnt mention the "unnecessary" footage of human suffering?
    What about the "unnecessary" footage of environmental destruction?
    It is all necessary.
    People need to see the pain and destruction caused by lifestyles and systems.

    You sound like you want to stick your head in the sand,you should be offended this shit happens not that someone would show/tell you about it.

    Not surprised by your lack of receptiveness to the documentary in general.

    As for the "zeitgeist craze" becoming tired and ridiculous.....
    Nearly a half million members of Zeitgeist movement,the documentary has already broken countless records for an independent film,the youtube link has 1.5million views already etc etc.
    Film for me was ok but nothing much new if you have watched the Zeitgeist movement orientation vid.

    Was nice to see only a few days later a huge crowd in Egypt brush the police aside just like one of the final pieces.
    They could have done without the kid and piggy bank scene though haha.

  331. I got asterisked for stup*d too. Did you know if you move your cursor over the stars and hover. The asterisked word pops up. I wonder if the word insipid trips the 'removoid' or maybe moron. Let me try.

  332. @Billy~
    Yeah. It's wierd. I assumed since my comment wasn't there that I did something wrong---like maybe it didn't like a single tiered comment with two different user names. So I split it into two and reposted. Then...whammo! All three of them suddenly flash-posted...it was probably an upload log jam. This site seems to have I/O delays too.

  333. The sudden and unnecessary use of violent imagery of animal torture, possibly used for effect and without warning to the viewer, was inappropriate and offensive. It also cast a negative light on the rest of the film, whose unrealistic and fanatical message only deteriorated thereafter. There is nothing new in this film. It might be inspirational for teenagers and for the odd twenty-year-old, but to most respected and educated grown-ups, this Zeitgeist craze has become tired and ridiculous.

  334. stupid

  335. I have noticed this myself Lary, I get an email from a thread I am subscribed to showing a new post, but the new post isn't here and the poster makes a new one.. hmmmm.. My computer is stupid though so maybe it's me.
    I would have liked to have seen a much higher viewcount on youtube for this video by now.

  336. OMG. What's with this delayed double posting?

  337. @arman~
    So what about sharing? Nothing works well without it---not relationships, not families, not rugby teams...only capitalism says, "Nah...we'll get on much better without sharing resources." I wrote an article last year entitled
    "The Farmer Who Wouldn't Feed The Cows---But Still Wanted To Milk Them"
    You can probably deduce what it's about from the context here and the title.

  338. @starboundmonkeys~
    I'll never forget it. It was just north of San Diego. He taught peripetically, I think is the expression, walking around...talking... answering impromptu questions. He was an engineer and had no affiliation with any traditional school of enlightenment. .. a true free-lance Buddha. But the, aren't they all?

  339. @arman~
    So what about sharing? Nothing works well without it---not relationships, not families, not rugby teams...only capitalism says, "Nah...we'll get on much better without sharing resources." I wrote an article last year entitled
    "The Farmer Who Wouldn't Feed The Cows---But Still Wanted To Milk Them"
    You can probably deduce what it's about from the context here and the title.

    I'll never forget it. It was just north of San Diego. He taught peripetically, I think is the expression, walking around...talking... answering impromptu questions. He was an engineer and had no affiliation with any traditional school of enlightenment. .. a true free-lance Buddha. But the, aren't they all?

  340. a little poem about simple verbs
    Be Have Do Give Love
    Behave and do give love all ways always

    Food is the fare of the soil
    It feeds the movements of my i
    Love is the fare of the soul
    It teaches what the Self is to others
    Money is just an illusion created by time
    We got used to it and we accept it
    Long ago before money paper
    Africans exchanged with little cowrie shells
    It was money then
    And then became jewelry
    Each single thing 1 wants
    Costs an equal amount of due time
    Want less to own more time
    For gardening carrots and apples
    Love and flowers

  341. This movie was Awesome!!
    there is nothing better than the
    Scientific Method
    and Peace

  342. @pragmatic

    You clearly do not understand the concepts of free market economics. Your argument is determined by what YOU have defined as free market principles. You're unwittingly strawmanning me. Go read a book by Rothbard called "Man, Economy, and the State" and I'll be willing to discuss it with you. I'm not saying it's the bible of free market economics, but it will at least get you thinking like a free market economist so you don't go on rants that are invalid due to lack of understanding. I don't mean to insult your intelligence or anything, but please, learn your enemy before you criticize. I don't think that's beyond your ability.

    There has never been a "libertarian" nation in the world. Try again. Real libertarians don't even believe in voting since it constitutes a rule of a majority.

    State or church makes no difference. It's centralized control. The thing you need to break away from is that somehow capitalism means corporations running everything. In a true free market, there is no lawful relationship between state and market (and at it's core, no state at all). That's what it's called free market (free from government). You have to first understand how all these things you're complaining about have a relationship to government, then see why that is the cause of the problems we face.


    Bank regulations - This only matters because they have privilege from government to create money of thin air and because they are insured by the big printer of money, the central bank, which is a lawful entity. This gives them unlimited ability to basically screw people over and control markets. Look at the fannie/freddie fiasco. That was caused because government insured loans so banks couldn't lose, and because interest rates were held artificially low by the central bank. So banks basically had no risk loans for the entire building of the bubble. This would never even be possible in a free market, as interest rates would be regulated by the amount of risk the bank and its shareholders are taking on. It's very simple when you know how to look at the scenario from a true free market perspective.

    There is greed involved absolutely. You can't solve greed, but you can stop it from being forced on you by law and keep the government from bailing failures out at your expense. These people have legal power to screw us over. Remove that possibility, and you'll fix a lot of problems we have.

    People typically like to say that Sweden is a great atheist socialist nation (which I agree). But the secret of their success comes from no social net for business, and enforcing private property rights. It's great for the people because there are still social programs, but no special power for business. It really doesn't matter what kind of political and economic situation you're in, as long as it involves free trade, private property, and no state control by business.

  343. @alan

    LOL yeah pretty much. They flat out demonized all the economists that actually deal with free market theories, but didn't say anything about any socialist economists. I mean, how can you mix Hayek, von Mises, and Keynes in the same blanket statement about monetary theory.

    They seriously have to have no idea what they're talking about. They're trying to insult our intelligence, but they're showing they clearly do not understand any free market concepts.

  344. Well done film!

  345. @arman

    "Actually, corporations have no power in free trade. They are not given any kind of special permissions in society like we have now."

    That's a pretty bold statement. Also about as false as it could be possibly be. Corporate personhood and the ability of corporations to fund elections a billion times over what an individual citizen would be able to ...well I don't see how that cannot be called special permission.

    "You’re also completely wrong about free trade. Remember the dark ages? That was monarchy, and despotism with complete
    state control over resources and money."

    That's a pretty contorted view of the Dark Ages. The Dark Ages were dark because the Church was the State. That situation will never create positive outcomes as we see today with the oppression of societies, especially women, in many Islamic countries. The root of this oppression is not the state, it is the church which has taken over the state.

    I would also note that the libertarianism which you seem to advocate has never worked anywhere in the world. The notion of government 'getting out of the way' leads to disaster nearly 100% of the time. Deregulate the banks, suffer. Deregulate Wall Street, suffer. Deruglate environmental concerns, trade, the workplace, food, education = suffering.

    The wild west was not a place many people would really like to live. Nor is Somalia or post collapse Russia.

    The U.S. is being bankrupted today by Wall Street, banks and 'free trade'. And who is paying the price? Everybody except the banks, Wall Street, and CEOs of multi-national corporations. I guess that small 99% of the people is just not producing enough to be worth saving.

    The fact that capitalism defeated communism does not mean that capitalism is a great system. It only means that communism is a poor one. Nor does it mean that human creativity can't move on to something else. I would submit that capitalism is a religion to many people, and they are blinded by it.

  346. A documentary about sociology and economics that fails to interview anyone in either of those fields. Apparently, ivy league biologists are the new go-to people for discussions about money.

  347. Utopia? Right, everybody is owned by the govment. Check Egypt right now, the govment pulled the plug on their internet.

    Think it can only happen there? what are the contingency plans everybody, if it happens in our homelands?

  348. @ Lary Nine~

    Wisdom and truth have timeless qualities too them. 1971 is not old at all the U.S.A. was beginning to start it's economical conquest at the time and the ramifications of slave trading and conquest hundreds of years ago can still be felt in many parts of the most, most of which are brutally poor.We cannot ignore the good and bad events of the past we can learn something from all of it design our futures. If you really want to seek your own personal development it would be ashame to ignore the lessons of all the great teachers of the past. Krishnamurti's teaching have given to me patience and compassion for mankind like nothing else, sadly I am only left with documentation of his thoughts and not the grace of his presence. Then man died before I had taken my first, if you remember seeing him 1971 you are very lucky.

  349. @pragmatic

    Actually, corporations have no power in free trade. They are not given any kind of special permissions in society like we have now. I think maybe you're not understanding the depth of what kind of free market philosophy I'm referring to. What we have now is nothing near free market. I'm not trying to be condescending, but I think if you understood my argument, you would have retorted with something of a contradictory economic statement, as opposed to an emotional one.

    What you consider poor allocation of goods is textbook incorrect. Markets are impartial and amoral. They aren't meant to, by themselves, fix how we treat each other. It's up to the individual (or government) to decide what to do with resources. What happens with resources signals other areas of productivity in an endless ripple to meet the needs of people who are demanding anything.

    You don't tell me how to live, and I don't tell you how to live. If you care about starving children, then you have to work proportionately harder to make up for their non-productive behavior (or their parents). That's the way the world works and always has worked. Not because we're stupid, but because nothing else works. Rome started falling apart because people were reliant on a government to provide food rations

    You're also completely wrong about free trade. Remember the dark ages? That was monarchy, and despotism with complete state control over resources and money. Free trade is what brought us out of that horrible life. At no time in history was there a relative increase in quality of life than when Europe started allowing free trade. I'm not comparing this to the ideal of a worldwide utopian commune, but that's generally what happens. With freedom, people can succeed, and they can fail. With free trade, most succeed, while some suffer. In communism, everyone suffers equally. The Venus Project is nothing more than communism 2.0.

    People that value their liberties, and pay attention to history, would much rather work for shit wages and be free, than be controlled through rationing and global directives. If you don't think that would happen, go crack open a history book. People are not going to change any time soon. Maybe eventually, but right now the whole idea is nonsense when you understand the reality of how we make advances in society. Even Marx admitted that an abundance of resources must be accumulated through free trade before moving to a system of rationing. It's not sustainable. There will always be scarcity and greed, causing individuals to act in their own interest, and history shows us that a society that forbids self-determination in any area of life will lead to violent oppression to try and counter such behavior. When the global incentive somehow magically turns to treating each other well, instead of self preservation and genetic strength (which is human nature), then this might be possible. Until resources are unlimited, and space on the planet is not a consideration, a system like that will only lead to suffering, rationing, and complete social control over people's lives just to try and force equality on people.

    Globalization is not the cause of third world slavery, but governments do enforce it through using military might to secure corporate interests. This is not allowed in a free market. Wars are not legal. Aggression is not legal. Do you think people in the middle of nowhere that have no food or are barely surviving get upset when a factory is dropped in their town? No f'n way. They're happy that they get to live a healthier life and take care of their families. America started off with poor wages in factories, etc. This is just what happens in economic development. You start poor, then through the miracle of some guy in a suit's self interest, you can start moving up. Look at both India and China. They were turned into America and Europe's factories and now they're beginning to prosper. I could go on, but I'll let the history of human action speak for itself.

  350. @arman

    Basically you are advocating for even more corporate control over the planet which is a view I cannot reconcile with anything remotely connected to a positive outcome.

    Free trade is a very poor voting system for the allocation of scarce resources. The reason being it is based entirely on the consumers ability to spend money. In case you haven't noticed, those most in need of scarce resources such as food and water do not have the money necessary to participate in such a system.

    Free markets and free trade left entirely to their own devices result in a very few people living lives of incredible luxury while the majority scrape by, or don't even scrape by, on the scraps that remain. A middle class is not a natural outcome of a market economy - it is the result of several factors involving things such as unions, minimum wage laws, worker protection laws, and other such interventions into what you see as the God-like perfection of markets.

    I would agree that a completely equal society is never going to be achieved and may even be undesirable. People who produce more or have special talents and have worked to develope those talents should be compensated. People who are better looking, more charismatic, etc..will always be more highly sought than others.

    The question is, how much more? Should there be no ceiling? Because what we are observing now with globalization is that resources are being stupidly wasted (why do we need to ship a can of cherries from South America when we can grow them in the U.S.?) in the name of the never ending search of cheap labor. The assumptions of never ending supplies of resources and infinite growth are just flat wrong and they are not something our current structure will address with any kind of fairness. Inequality will get worse and create a whole menu of serious issues. Part of what is going on Egypt right now is due to severe ineqaulity. There will be more of this type of reaction in the future.

  351. First of all, thank you Vlatko for the hours of brain stimulation I've received on this site.

    If there is one thing in this world that gives me hope for the future, it is the freedom of information that we have access to on the internet. I am a firm believer that if the public is well educated, the transparency of governing and corporate institutions will make the powers that be responsible for their actions.
    We all owe thanks to those who make this information available for viewing, sharing, considering, and debating.

    My thoughts on the Zeitgeist movement... I've wathced all of the films from this series, and I have to say, they make a very convincing argument for the eradication of the monetary system. They do so in a way that clearly shows how ridiculous our current system is, perpetuating debt that enslaves most of humanity.

    The concept of a resource based economy makes sense, provided that the system isn't corrupted by greed, and it is overseen (with complete transparency) by the general public. This may be possible through the use of technology. The worlds available resources can be monitored and distributed properly and fairly with the use of unbiased computers.

    I do believe this system can work. My concern is that the changeover from the monetary system (the only system we've known in our lifetime), to a resource based economy will be too drastic and radical an idea for most of humanity, despite how much I would like to see it happen in my lifetime.

    Lastly, I would like to address those who equate the Zeitgeist movement with the "new world order". I have listened to many of these theories and most of what I hear from them are concerns stemming from fear of change. What I do not hear from them are ideas of how to change our current system of enslavement for the betterment of humanity. It is for this reason that I commend people like Peter Joseph, and Jacque Fresco for daring to dream big of a world that is just, intelligent, and humane, and for dedicating their lives to educating and inspiring as many of us as they can, raising debates of how to best move towards the future with the goodwill of the entire planet in mind.

  352. The whole point of economics is studying the human relationship to finite resources. If markets were controlled in order to make things equal, it would cause greater inefficiency due to the mis-allocation of resources. This would cause rationing and unsustainable labor and resource investments to be taken on. What happens to these failed startup companies? Are they bailed out to be fair? Are they given other projects to keep them productive? Why if they keep failing, should they be given equal priority when dividing up available resources for new projects? How could they repair a bad reputation for failure without personal command of their own resources? Why would the rest of society favor wasting resources on continued failure? Equality is not efficiency. It is always the opposite. Equality is not concerned with the scarcity of resources. It encourages the wrong behavior, and rewards failure. The rest of society ends up suffering equally because of it. This limited liability is what we have today. This is why BP was able to still be in business after dumping an ass-ton of oil in the ocean.

    Money is not the problem. Poor government is the problem. Subsidies and business intermingling with government is the problem. Money is completely neutral by itself. We need to keep the government from favoring well-connected failures, and let the people vote them out using their paper voting ballots called money.

    This is why free trade is a natural voting system for the allocation of scarce resources. Not ever would a system of governance be able to do the same. It would require them to have to read the minds of billions of individual economic actors, which history shows us to be inefficient and ineffective.

  353. @Lary - Thanks.

    I think really what the problem is, is the fact that we say "this is human nature, therefore..."

    It doesn't really work like that, because we're nothing like the first genetically established humans. While I don't agree 100% with the praxeological follow-through on many social issues, it still provides the first step for understanding the root of socioeconomic circumstances.

    I think it's great to idealize about the world being perfect, but it won't happen. The only way it could happen is through no force of governance. Anarcho-syndicalism for example, is a great ideal, but it's nothing but freely acting groups as opposed to freely acting individuals (anarcho-capitalism), and in group mode, the majority still imposes their will on others. It is not morally acceptable to do this.

    Moral syndicate life would still require individual freedom to move within groups, so the idea that it's an alternative to an-cap life is logically impossible. If we were allowed to live freely, there is no entity to tell us how to organize, and the "chips would fall where they may".

    I would actually rather point people in this group to a book titled "Sex Before Dawn". It's basically a book that breaks down all of our nonsense beliefs and modern social structures as completely invalid when dealing in terms of human nature. It is more likely to turn people on to praxeology than von Mises.

  354. @starboundmonkeys~
    Krishnamurti. Wow. That's going back in time somewhat. I heard him in southern California in 1971 I think it was.

  355. @arman~
    You put up a thoughtful argument against human maleability within a systemic context. Personally, I rejected von Mises and 'praxeology' as having a overly pragmatic limited view of manknd.
    Anyway... good pitch. Share more about it... got links?

    As for me, I would like to believe that man can realign his prime motives to incorporate 'cooperation' and 'good for the greatest number' as a priority. I'd like to see if it can work.

  356. It's not a damn utopia, of course it will have its problems and need policing. I for one, hope that my government will initialise a Venus type system, allowing cities to be independant, and not rely on oil and the horrors that come with it.
    Look, if a city builds a Venus type project, people from Zeitgeist will not go to that location claiming power over those people or demanding thier resources, they simply couldn't. So no, this is not a religion or a cult. This is basically free information for the people.

  357. Dispite the sappy emotional distractions, at least this one offers some workable ideas based in reality.
    Data collection and computer aided analysis is workable.
    Converting old urban warehouses to hyfroponic farms is workable.
    Mini manufacturing of components as opposed to warehousing them individually could work if the initial system could offer assurances of copyrite ownership.
    The final transition, however, will be the most difficult as individual power and self-security are always difficult to let go of.
    This is all, of course, assuming energy will be there in needeed quantity.

  358. @Victor Mendes~
    Your quote: "...[I] believe that in the end is nothing but an utopia,impossible to happen,after all we are only humans,and we will never be perfect."
    Didn't you watch the part in the film's beginning where he addresses that idea? That is, he refutes the thesis that human beings have some genetic basis for pre-determined behavior---eg; negativity... selfishness... violence. There isn't anything like that in the DNA of babies, Victor.

  359. @Vlatko & boyinblue~
    I'm relatively new to TDF, but as a lifelong learner with an addiction to documentary films, this site richly justifies its worth. It's the best doc-site I've seen.
    As to this film: "Zeitgeist" is terrific. It's lengthy and didactic but has high production values... and it held my interest. I love this guy...Jacques Fresco...what an eccentric, original thinker. I happen to already be on this bandwagon--- the global resource management philosophy. In fact, I'm often accused of being a packrat because along with recycling, I save anything that may have some use as a semi-raw material. The arguments in the film against 'free market capitalism' aren't new to me, but it was reassuring to hear the litany of reasons from other independent sources. I couldn't find one issue raised in the film to with which to differ. The ending parody of anti-communism was a hoot!

  360. I admire the ideas contained in this documentary but i believe that in the end is nothing but an utopia,impossible to happen,after all we are only humans,and we will never be perfect.
    The only way to implemment such vision in society is by means of a dictatureship and we dont want that.

    Thanks Vlatko for posting one more amazing doc.

  361. Excellent! Thank goodness for TDF, and thanks to Vlatko!

  362. a good step would be to get a better understanding of evolution.

    most see evolution it terms of survival of the fittest when it is clearly survival of the most adaptable.

  363. the obvious 1st step is to get society to accept there is a problem then and only then can there be any chance of finding a solution.

  364. @ Ciph3ro
    Yes man! Big companies / corporations have a huge amount of influence over what information your brain recieves. Break free! Join the Zeitgeist Movement, The Venus Project is merely the first proposition, so if you don't like it - look for other solutions. Think about the next generation, whatever we do will affect them tremendously, even if we do nothing and let the monetary collapse run its course, whatever that may be.

  365. I can envision something: All the religious people claiming the monetary collapse as the wrath they predicted, only solidifying their beliefs even more.

  366. The more I think about it the more I realize how big of a task making this happen would be and even if it is possible at all after people got used to the system we have today where we have kids starving with food produced kilometers away, all our garlic comes from China and big corporations are pretty much our governments.

    In Canada, the Canadian Radio and Television Commission just made a large portion of internet providers and resellers abide pretty much by the rules of Bell Canada and makes them charge the same for 12% of the previous bandwidth to keep out companies like Netflix and other streaming services. They are protecting their investments in cable, satellite and TV stations they acquired. So upset over this! Shows how easily companies having monopolies can play around with our governments.

  367. Heheh Bill,

    You would be surprised; I have heard of and met many highly educated individuals that have been influenced or indoctrinated by religion. My opinion is that religion is extremist in nature though. There is not really any room for falsifying "known facts" and replacing them with new ones. They somehow bend education and religion to coexists in their perception of reality. That's a whole other thing though.

    If only someone could buy a small "country", piece of land, whatever you may call it, that had all the basic resources and start up this model, I would definitely move there and make my contribution. I believe many of the world's citizen's would. I can only imagine a world where production was automated and we were free to immerse ourselves in research and making ourselves more successful explorers of everything.

    Belief in mystical concepts, but somehow "explained" to the letter, that were never proven to be true, and a monetary economy are the two main things that are keeping this from becoming a reality and driving us to many years of grief, suffering and very very dark times.

    I can only hope I can help make this better world. Hard to know how to proceed though. I think that is the most difficult part..

    Work hard for the advancement of technology? Live like a hippie? Become a vegan? Stop buying things? Sell your car? Make more money than EVERYONE else, then give it away? Burn all the money and live in the woods was interesting.:) More ideas needed for sure..

    What about making an international company that ran at almost no profit as its core policy and made goods of all kinds as "good" as possible? Starting with something as simple as a toaster or something else commonly used today. Seems like a foot in the door and people might take interest in something made in their own interest. Profit hungry corporations would not be able to compete financially. I might be missing something, like a countermeasure the corporations put in as a law or something, but still.

    Great documentary!

    P.S. Sadly making integrated circuits (computers) upgradeable will probably not happen for hundreds of years or more. ICs are part of my area of engineering.

  368. @ Arman
    Once again I see someone with no faith in the human race. We don't always have to be burdened by greed. I don't think we were supposed to be like that, I also don't think we were supposed to be so desensatized to death that we aren't bothered when we see a starving ethiopian on television or hear about civillian casualties in a war. Have faith man, we need to change.

  369. lol it seems like 90% of the comments above are praising the dude who owns the site like he made the movie or something, copy n paste a link from your tube dose not deserve a high merit. Lets keep on track and discuss the topic at hand and not blow smoke up peoples a$$@#$%.

  370. Whoever made this doc has clearly never studied monetary theory, praxeology, and REAL free market theory. They're basing their entire premise on a system that is flawed and manipulated. This is not free capitalism. It has nothing to do with the fact that we use money. The freeing up of resources is part of efficiency, which continues circulation, just in other areas. The planned obsolescence argument is misplaced here. There are many other examples, but it's easier to go read "human action" or "man, economy, and state".

    Trying to compare our system to free markets is like trying to compare star trek to soviet Russia.

    This kind of thing will never work. People are too different to ever agree on the same thing. There will always be scarcity and status. What would you do about housing? Who gets the big house?

    Sorry doc, you get the same dole as a janitor. Don't bother going to college.

    Get real people. Humans have always been screwed. We have to keep incentives for people who will eventually lead us out of the dark ages. They'll do it for their own benefit, and it will benefit us all.

  371. @ Vlatko

    I would also like to show my appreciation to you for this wonderful site. I am one of those who come to this site almost on a daily basis to watch the documentaries here even watching some twice, thrice sometimes but I hardly make a comment. I hardly watch TV or movie anymore. I just come to your site and watch the documentaries you have here. I've learned a lot from here. Coming to your site is a daily ritual for me nowadays. Thank you very much. Live well my friend.

  372. It kind of sickens me when I think of how we allow our industry to produce disposable novelties out of life sustaining resource. Consumers enslave themselves to buy wasteful products of which, propose no true benefit to the overall advancement of society, or may be directly contributing to future disasters and or their own suffering. The life sustaining elements to our ecosystem are so delicately and almost infinitely intertwined that everything in it is contributing to each other, helping to support each other because this is the only way to survive. Helping your self only benefits one life but if you turn your efforts towards everything else and hope that you will get support from everyone else then the thought of 7 billions humans having my back should not be a radical idea.

    We are chopping away and disposing of the life and material that come together with mind tingling complexity, only to waste the tools we need to accomplish our human goals. We go as far as deluding ourselves from the inevitable. If we continue to do any more harm than already done, killing life sustained by the autonomy of nature and pillaging it's resources only bound by the greed of the greediest. Human legacy. Part of blame is pointed at world financial powers as they go on their selfish conquest to turn Earth's resource what they think is nothing it into something. Earth's resources should be responsibly harnessed and shared, there is little to restrain the few of us that only care about money because its has a powerful value but what they are doing is turning our everything into nothing. Money is our selfish way of keeping tabs on contributions to society through rewards, money being the most enabled as it fools you into false freedom as the majority of humans slave for moneys while the few who have a lot let their money work for them. The most selfish players are successful at this game because they setup the rules to ensure it, thus concern for the health of life on earth as a whole is life trampled over in our conquest of money.

    A money thirsty trance has detached us from nature our real home, to which our lineage has been much more connected for millions of years except for our current episode, which is why we may not see disaster coming our way. Detached from nature and blinded from our responsibilities as leaders, true leaders of the universe, for we are part of a very small percentage of arranged matter that is alive and influences it's environment. Even more awesome,we are the only true sentient life form that we have evidence of possessing the ability of making complicated calculations on the future giving us the power to influence it and hopefully improve on the future in general. We also have the ability to escape an obvious fate of destruction that is for practical reasons ignored. Even if we manage to control ourselves from raiding the planet Earth still has an expiry date; whether from the conduit be out own ignorance, a giant meteor or other natural disasters ( Mother earth is speaking to us through small glimpses of greater destruction pleading with us to change), the sun will in the distant future going super nova life as we know it on earth will come to its demise. The most divine part about earth's story is our sentient ability,we have a responsibility to the Earth that has given us everything, to keep all life on earth as prosperous for as long as possible. And with hoping for luck and mountains of hard work we have a responsibility to every spec of stardust that went into giving us our short personal experience of life, to have even a little bit of life on earth escape that final demise and continue to write the chapters of planet earth's story. Just as we have the urge to continue our personal lineage we must recognize the profound ramifications of securing success of life on earth and beyond it.

    This is the time to begin a revolution with these goals in mind. This is what the world needs right now, the unification of mankind to uphold our responsibility to every natural mechanism that carries us on its back so that we can fulfill our sentient role on this planet. If we continue on our disposable consumer based civilization we will have wasted all the vital, powerful, divine and o so crucial resource that are our tools to solving human suffering on a whole. We need this idea right now to concentrate our resource and energy in the right direction before it's too late. We need this idea because the world needs hope right now, a vision they can seek motivation out of. Improving current situations will not be easy nor will it come quickly however, it would be disheartening to not try and continue to let human efforts dissipate into nothingness. If humanity stays on a responsibly guided path at it's own pace it doesn't matter how far up to stars we may reach will be proud and our descendants will be eternally grateful assembling a civilization that at it's fundamental principles focused on the improving the quality of life for future generations.We need to stop working for ourselves and our paycheck and start working for the world.

    "...And as we are - the world is. That is, if we are greedy, envious, competitive, our society will be competitive, envious, greedy, which brings misery and war. The State is what we are. To bring about order and peace, we must begin with ourselves and not with society, not with the State, for the world is ourselves. ...If we would bring about a sane and happy society we must begin with ourselves and not with another, not outside of ourselves, but with ourselves." J Krishnamurti

  373. The notion that “debunking ideas presented in this film" is "akin to attempting to debunk science itself" is something I might imagine would be said by religious extremists to influence the uneducated.
    It's totally absurd and ridiculous.
    I'd be much more willing to watch a film that asks me to think, than one that tells me how to think.

    I feel ashamed that the concepts of scientific knowledge could be so utterly absent from your mind.

  374. this site rules! ive used it daily for a year, and have learned more than in my previous 35 years.thanks for all the great documentaries.

  375. Thank you very much Vlatko. I have been visiting this site for untold amount of information that most sites like yours are unwilling to touch upon. We need more people like you in the world. Thank you for making the world a better place simply by providing the avenue for real knowledge.

  376. Suppose this actually works...won't there be overpopulation issues? Without half the world starving, actually thriving and hardly anyone dying of hunger, car accidents, treatable medical conditions etc, whose to stop someone from having a huge spawn of children? I'm sure with such good medical coverage the average life expectancy would increase as well.

    Other things that come to mind...
    people will always find things to be envious of others. You will still need police right? Infidelity can lead to rage to murder the guy nailing your wife.

    Not to mention transition into a system like this with people who still have ideals of the previous system will be hard.

    I mean it all sounds too perfect. machines running every possible aspect of labor, no work, no stress, i think to people now much of this is unimaginable.

    i dunno im all over the place, its too much to take in at once.

  377. @Keith -- I applaud your wisdom.

    Anyone who has ever had to manage "people" whether it's family or business, understand that while people need structure, however, structure does not curb our human impulses and until SOMEONE can figure out how to curb our impulses--such as greed, lust, apathy, our tendency to be totally irrational, etc. This "ideal" world will NEVER work. Not because our "ideal" world is structurally flawed, but because HUMANS are inherently flawed--spiritually, emotionally, and physically. That's why we all spend our lives trying to find and maintain our "self."

    But hey, if you want chaos and anarchy--which is needed to change our world as we see it today--I'll see you at the crossroads with my small army; I'm here to take all your goods, resources and women. Bring on the zombies, b!tches.

  378. @Reasons Voice
    I really respect what you've said in your comments. You give some valid and fair points of view. People could argue back and forth forever on some of the points and that's not what I'm going to do. It's more information which is a good thing.
    PS. Really good to hear about the efforts you're making to do your part. (ie veggie garden and plans for your cabin.)
    Since I watched Addendum 2 years ago I have drastically changed my life for the better future I like to think. The one thing I CAN do is to do my part. 'Be the change you want to see'...
    I've since moved to a solar city on a reasonably remote island. I'm aiming towards my whole property being as self-sustainable as I can make it. Almost everything I plant is edible and scraps go into compost. Recyclable and earth friendly products. Eventually I hope to be able to install rainwater tanks and enough solar panels to power my own needs. It all costs money though so it's slow going ;(
    I'm going back to school soon (I'm 30) to study horticulture and agriculture. I wanted to have the sort of skills that may be of some use in a resource based situation.

    I guess I just wan't to say that a revolution doesn't necessarily need to be under the banner of TZM or TVP.
    The fact that the Zeitgeist Movement is making people think, some people who otherwise may not have, is undeniably a good thing. Waking people up to the need for change, a sustainable system, and showing them the possibilities of a different way, is priceless I think.

    Unfortunately I, like others I have noticed, believe that a revolution of this magnitude is unlikely without a system breakdown first. I say 'unfortunately' because I'm partly aware of the horrible things that would result from such break down.
    A system break down on this scale is inevitable I think :(
    I don't see the need for anyone or any Movement to force it.

    After a mass break down on such a large scale, it doesn't have to be The Zeitgeist Movement or Venus Project - Simply a larger number of people aware and educated on the importance of a sustainable system is going to be a priceless asset.

    I think it is fair to say that The Zeitgeist Movement has and is succeeding in drawing much needed attention to a dire situation. It is drawing people who give a damn together and giving them a platform on which to share ideas and knowledge.
    Making plans for the future based on logic and incorporating a scientific method is necessary if we really want to survive and grow as a species. The Venus Project is far from perfect but it is a great starting point.

  379. I also Thank You...

  380. @Lisa O - thanks much for your kind words. For the record I too am a bit squeamish about Christianity! It's complicated indeed. I would be happy to be a part of your post-apocalyptic think tank!

    @Nathan - I think everyone that has an inkling that the world needs a dramatic change and who have some even similar ideas about the direction that should be in...we all need to be on the same team and be less critical and suspicious of one another, so if I come off as aiding in that effort, I'm gratified.

    Whoever said we should burn our money and live in the woods... I kind of agree. While there aren't enough woods for everyone, most moderns would have a pretty miserable time and die of exposure early on so it could be a self correcting situation. Joking. Mostly.

    @Reasons Voice - I think we may have sparred some in the past over religion, but I'm right with you here. I am actually inspired and encouraged by the energy behind change and the hopeful tone, and the lack of apathy expressed by pro-Venus Projecters here and I think the world be worse off without that energy. However, I tend to share your opinion of the human race and what history teaches us.

    One thought about whether any and all bad human behavior is a result of the system...I wonder if Peter Joseph and Mr. Fresco have any children? Raising children will clear one's idealogical and very much "on paper" notion that the system is what infects human beings with desires or impulses to hurt one another. I have two wonderful little ones, and I like to think that they are being raised with markedly counter-system values eg, my very bright five year old and I had a long conversation about money...the fact that it is an idea not a real thing, the fact that the "skill crane" at the grocery store is designed to separate him from his money based on false hopes. After talking and thinking for a bit he said, so it's kind of like rich people just keep getting richer and poor people will just keep getting poorer. He seriously said that. So, given that, he still acts selfish, angry and lashes out violently at his sister if he wants to hoard something for himself and she threatens. I assure you that everyone in our house has more than they need of things that matter...but somehow there is still an impulse to, well, compete and be human I guess. The system certainly infects and toxifies these impulses but it does not create them.

  381. C mon people, this is not new and nothing is so bad, insted USA deservet such future, you invite devil so hi cam.
    I am from Serbia and I now how is tu be slave for USA you distroy us with McDonald ideology-we survive and you will survive, maybe without money.


  382. To me this is a load of horse crap. At times I kinda want to agree on some points, but then I get an uneasy feeling of "something is wrong with this". At the end, it all looked like something out of a Jehovas pamphlet. And the so called "scientist" that talked about "marxism" in such a simplified manner that it makes you wonder if he actually went to school at all.

  383. Wow the beautiful words I see in this comments here has unleashed a huge guilt in me.

    Like the millions I too am a student of this site and in fact wields considerable influence over my intelluctual faculties.

    There is a both an advantage and disadvantage to surrendering to a unseen digital teacher such as TDF. But its my choice and a big thank you to Vlatko (I am ashamed that I did not know or bother to know the founder's name).
    Back to the guilt the sweetness in the comments above makes me feel guilty at some of my harsh or flaming comments I have left at this site elsewhere based on the emotions that the topics of the documentary evoked in me.

  384. amazing!

  385. Awesome comments and some very good and thoughtful ideas for "moving forward". I, like many have been looking for manageable and practical solutions for some time. Many of 'us' know that our current systems really do not work; the positive contributions (medicine, improved health,life expectancy, free education, etc. have overwhelmingly been contributions of science and technologies - many, like the internet, 'given away' freely). If you want the highest quality of training, ask someone who is the 'top' of that skill level to mentor you. People love to share the things they are good at. People 'do' give of their time and skills, simply to benefit others, as evidenced by this web site... so can we really live without money? ... Ideas: 1. move your $ if you can to locally member owned Credit Unions, 2. Stop shopping (seems ridiculous, maybe not so impossible, however, to 'shop' only when you must, and then do so thinking about where the goods come from) 3. Grow your own; start with a salad garden maybe or buy sustainably grown (on another new doc re: The World without fish, my favorite quote said "pay sh*t loads for your wants, or go out and get it yourself!")4. Buy local,Go green where ever possible. 5. Vote - for like minded people - in your school boards, health boards,town & city governments. Simple? Too small? Life supporting community and nature 'ruled' life styles are how our species survived most of the last 100,000 plus years; surely we can nurture a modern version into being. These and similar docs provide vision and knowledge, we decide with every decision, ever action we take. Finally 6. Perhaps the most challenging, search out like minded people (for friendship and inspiration and mutual help); we are social beings, and need one another much more than our me only societies have taught. - Maybe you won't change 'the' whole world, perhaps you can change 'your' world, until, the rest catch up OR in the time 'the' world has left.

  386. I like to imagine a peaceful race, looking back on how insane we are.

  387. If you like the ideas for the future presented in this video, the best way to start moving towards them is for every individual to do something within our own capacity. Study renewable energy, sustainable agriculture, mechanical engineering, sustainable architecture, 3D printing (which I thought was really cool), or whatever area interests you most. Start businesses that, while still being forced to exist in the market system, do not exploit cheap labor for massive profits for the few at the top. Decisive thinking about the necessity of the items we purchase everyday, coupled with some sort of benefit to waste analysis is vital. Ponder the benefit to waste ratio of a 20oz. bottle of water, for example.

    Talking to people about your ideas is also vital. Looking back at myself a decade ago, I was so naive. It was one person who introduced me to some of these ideas, and I took my own interest from there to investigate for myself. Since then I have introduced several others to some of these ideas, sparking healthy debates and intellectual stimulation. If I never changed any minds, at least I had introduced them to a different perspective. Even if we never make it to the society described in the movie, the species and the planet will still be better because of our efforts. Human evolution is ongoing and never ending.

  388. I believe it has been clear to a lot of people for a very long time that our system of market based everything is not sustainable. I've never seen a documentary so clearly spell out how corporate efficiency is actually ineffeciency in regards to the well being of the vast majority of people and the Earth itself. That was extremely well done here.

    What is scary is that at least here in the United States we are moving more and more towards market based solutions for virtually everything. Public schools are routinely criticized fairly or unfairly and the only solution, you see, is private schools. Private prisons. Privately owned turnpikes and highways. Etc, etc. Nothing at all gets done unless there is a person or small group of people somewhere making exorbitant amounts of money off of it.

    This system is not going to be around in 100 years, certainly not in anything resembling its current form. I have a difficult time however imagining how any system will function without some form of money, something to represent the amount of resources a person can take for themselves. I guess that may be my indoctrination into the current system talking.

    A good place to start would be policies that discourage people from hoarding gigantic sums of wealth for themselves. Perhaps some surtax of 90% or so on income over a few million dollars. This was actually the system the U.S. had throughout the 50's and 60's. But neither political party in the U.S. is going to do this, or anything that needs to be really done to avoid a catastrophe that will make the Great Depression look like a summer picnic.

    Barring a miraculous social change or a series of quantum leap technological advancements in energy, I give us about 20 years before the whole thing comes down.

  389. @ Reasons Voice
    Thanks for being honest, I'll save a seat for you just incase :)

  390. @Billie; I hear ya and again I think it is commendable the way you feel. I am in part bogged down by the current status quo, but not as deeply as you may think. I am a pretty independant guy. I have my own vegie patch in the yard, my idea of a good time is a hike in the hills, and while I am just now getting to a point where owning a home is in the equation, I have all the designs and connections to have a geothermal system in my small 2 bedroom log cabin home that I intend to build. I just feel that I can only do my part and I am eminently distrustfull of any type of all encompassing regeime nomatter what it's stated intent. While your movement does not have my support now, if it all comes together and it can actually work, when the time comes you will not find me resistant.

  391. @ Reasons Voice
    OK I appoligise for quoting you like that.
    Yes 1 million people, please consider this video was only released a few days ago, and a mass of people are working together to spread word of it.
    I don't see resources being an issue in a Venus scenario either, as food will be grown, other resources are plentiful (are they not) energy will come from wind / water etc, and oil will not matter anymore.
    I appreciate your efforts for your side of the debate, with some quite valid points you do make a statement. I feel that you are fixated on your position and will not budge.
    Just consider the growing amount of people taking interest in this, and as you yourself agreed, with enough people something like this is possible.
    I know some hippies, and they have no interest in controlling people and ordering massacres, though surely some from this era do, after being lured by greed. Greed doesn't always have to hinder the human race, we can work towards a different world where greed isn't necessary. Hard to imagine, but definately possible. C'mon man, work with me here.

  392. @Billy; Mountain gorillas, while majestic and wonderfull animals, are a poor comparrison. It may well be true that genetically we are quite similar there is one glaring discrepency, population. There are currently 782 wild mountain gorillas enhabiting two separat wildlife reserves. The Bwindi Impenetrable forrest in which 302 live, and Virunga national forrest where 480 live. Varunga encompasses 7,800 square kilometers and Bwindi 331 square kilometers. Giving the individual groups alot of personal teritory thus aleiviating teritorial/resource dispute. If each person had 10.4 square kilometers of personal space we could be quite peacefull as well.
    1 million supporters in a global population of over 7 billion? I dont even have to give the percentage to show that is nothing.
    You thanked me for my statement of whether 90% were enough to affect a change but ignore all on the rest of my statement. Please dont cherry pick my own statements and feed them back to me as support.
    I do remember the Hippie era. Those same peace loving people on many occasions assaulted returning soldiers. They also socially rejected those returning soldiers to a point of making it all but impossible for them to reassimilate when they returned home. On top of all of that, those same hippies are now the ones in charge of our nation and they seem just as apt to devide the people and declare wars as their predacessors were. It is quite easy to be all about peace and love and understanding when you are young, have no resposabilities and life time consists of b0ning some poor GIs wife or girlfriend while high as a kite at a music festival, meanwhile that poor GI is getting his face melted by white phosphorus. (yes the hippie movement loses points with me)
    You are probably a young man and as such you should think as you do. Winston Churchill once said "A young man who is not a liberal, has no heart... ...but an old man who is not a conservative, has no mind!" and I think that he had it dead on.
    When I had this debate on a separate thread the pro zeitgeist poster, in answer to my question of "where will all of these resources come frome?", stated "they will just be available" All that exchange mad me think about was the old version of the movie Time Machine. When the man asks the Eloi people, who live in an appearant utopia where their food comes from the responce is "it just grows" Later in the film you learn that there is a separate class behind the scenes who work to create that utopia for the Eloi and the cost is from time to time they capture and eat a few of them. That is what I see coming out of a society in utopia where only a small percentage of people have to work to make it all happen while the vast majority can "pursue their creativity"

  393. one question i never see answered is what to do with the populations that don't want to join the revolution? just for arguments sake what if Canada, Russia, Brazil, and Saudi Arabia choose not to join (not saying they wont only a what if) there goes approx 40% of the oil a large % of the fresh water reserves a large % of land mass with less than 10% of world population combined. does the movement force them to give up their reserves ?

  394. @Jo McCoy,

    One Word! WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!


    Congratulations, you've started a Epidemic, well deserved I might add!


    As was said your viewers profit and Appreciate from what you've done with this site to date, behind the scenes I can only imagine the amount time, work and energy that is consistently put into this.

    Your truly Committed and we all Appreciate it, said and unsaid ,sometimes we innocently takes it for granted not even being conscious .

    We all are guided by our conscience and we also live by our knowledge .
    As other reviewers has stated I also have gain much from this.

    Kudos to you once again From The Bahamas.

  395. I guess from some of the comments that we should hold on to old ways because were comfortable with them 1

    If your child is hurt, you dont wonder why or where only get help for them.
    The earth is our child and it is hurting!

    There will always be problems with any system of self governing! We all Know this but we need a change in order to survive as a species. This is what it has come too!

    I for one know that any change will be a good one it will take time to unbrainwash the human masses need for greed and stupidity.

    Only humans take more than we need from the earth. Every other species are about economy and awareness, but we take and take to the point of destruction of our species. Be very aware that other species will be just fine without us in the fray.

    Wake up and rise up. I only wish I could do more and that I may live to see the day of stress free burden of the Joneses attitude!

    WHat we forget is that the earth is our (collective) planet and what we do now will effect the whole species of peoplekind!

    Change does not have to be violent, The black movement ofr the sixties and fifties. FReedom at last!

  396. Thank You Vlatko! I am also an anonymous use who's been coming here over and over...and as boyinblue never left a comment.

    So Thank you! Live long and Happy!

  397. @ Reasons Voice
    "Competition is an enherant aspect of species survival." Take a look at Mountain Gorillas, an animal that is over 95% identical to humans. They are peaceful herbivores, look them up if you haven't they are fascinating. They have enough food to support themselves, and they have an amazing amount of care and love for each other, and they basically just enjoy the ride of life peacefully. They live as small families and even live in small communities each as seperate families. They have what they need (aside from us not allowing their homes to expand, in turn not allowing resources or a broadening of their intelligence), and they manage to live peacefully and caringly. Why should we have this inevitable greed lingering over our heads? I would rather have a peaceful earth than a greed ridden earth, and there are many who feel the same way, which brings us to your next quote:
    "You think there are so many because you surround yourself with like-minded people." No I do not. I understand your concept perfectly. It comes down to a youtube video becomming viral, with comments of support (still after 4 days) coming in literally every second.
    "You ask me if 90% of the people supported one way of life would it be possible. Of course." Yes, thank you.
    "A global utopian society cannot exist with opposition." Yes you explained this well and I see your point. The idea here is a goal of a peaceful world. Remember the hippy era - that came down to lots of love and the all important sharing. If resources became too low to support everyone in a Venus environment, then yes anarchy would ensue, it would happen now with this system too. But the anarchy we are facing now isn't due to a life sustaining resource depleting, is comes down to a resource and system depleting which won't allow the wealthy elite to mainain their power. Why should we fight and die over that?
    "Beyond that even with 100% support it would be decades if not centuries before we had the kind of self sustaining tech needed for this." It does not have to be run by robots, especially in the beginning. And as for the rest of your explanation, please understand what a peaceful world has: love, peace, caring, sharing.
    You seem to be fixated on the human race never being capable of anything more than driving itself into the ground because of greed. Give it a week, and I give you a million people already collaborating for Venus from youtube alone. Don't throw the idea away so easily, give it a chance, join it and support it, that is how it works.

  398. I can agree that in an isolated and controlled small scale world this is doable if the tech is present. Without the tech it is just a socialist comune or village. Those have worked and continue to work in many places. However never on a large scale. For instance many Chinese villages still operate as comunes. Each villager has a skill set that benefits the whole, and all villagers partake in crucial things such as the plantin and harvesting of rice crops. It only works on small scale though. In the village there may be 100 people of which maybe 5-10 are elderly or infirmed or just plane not good at anything. The comune (barring plague or drought etc.) can afford to support that. On a large scale the numbers alone make it impossible since it is harder for a population of 100,000 to support 10,000 who do not contribute. Also in an aging population, which we currently have, the ratio of working age and retired is leaning more and more toward unsustainable levels. Add to that the prolonging of childhood and the age of responsibility getting pushe ever backward. One hundred years ago a 15 year old was expected to bring an income into the home. To be a working active member of society. Today that age is 25. The support structure is essentially a candle being burned at both ends and cannot sustain a sociallist mentality.
    Ehh I am rambleing. Maybe someday guys but just not today.

  399. @Billy and Nathan; Selfishness and greed are not just a symptom of our current system. Kings did not come to power due to altruism. Nations were not formed on the premise of sharing. Stone age tribes had wars and crime. A troup of monkeys will kill off another troup of monkeys for posession of a fruit tree. Competition is an enherant aspect of species survival. You think "there are so many of us" That is misconception. You think there are so many because you surround yourself with like-minded people and therefore think everyone is on board. On a blobal scale one billion supporters would amount to less than 10% support.
    You ask me if 90% of the people supported one way of life would it be possible. Of course but who is gonna gas the 10% that disagree. I can't recall the current global population but thats at least 1-2 billion people or more. they just dissapear for the greater good? I have heard that speach before from people like Stalin and Hitler. And before you get upset by that comparisson, remember that even those men came to power as heroes to their people. Men who offered unity, strength, and a new and prosperous era. Both regeims supported equality for the majority. And both eventually turned to eliminating the minority to acheive that unity.
    A global utopian society cannot exist with opposition, or alongside of a capitalist free market society. Every time one of the food factories breaks down the people will look to the other side. Every time the people see the material posessions and lifestyle on the other side they will envy. I don't just make this up. Before the Soviet collapse the Russian people were absolutely insane for blue jeans and any other black market item that represented that capitalist world.
    Beyond that even with 100% support it would be decades if not centuries before we had the kind of self sustaining tech needed for this. If only 10 percent of the population has to wake up for work in the morning to ensure that the machine is running smoothely, eventually one of two thing will happen. A) They will get pi$$ed and stop working because (why should the world live off of the workers sweat) and they will stop working untill they have some sort of status upgrade to recognise their work. or 2) They will be slaves who have no choice but to obey the demands of the masses.

  400. Hey thanks Nathan. It is hard to remain positive when there is much negativity around. It is people like you and me, that believe in a free world and look towards initiating it that make a difference, and oh my f*cking god - THERE ARE SO MANY OF US!

    It is also a possibility, that those of you denying and quashing dreams of a beautiful and peaceful world, will soon be eating your words. There is a world revolution beginning. Stop kidding yourselves, the people of the world united is much more powerful than you obviously imagine. Negativity is a cancer that is eating people from the inside out. This movement has NO room for negativity, it is becomming full of peaceful and eager people, ready to pounce. Stop underestimating what is happening here.

  401. I agree with Billy. We can make this happen. In fact I think it has already begun.
    Evil is simply a perception. Such things as selfishness exist because of the current system. Same as deceit, corruption and lying. They are all results of a failing system and at the root of that system is money. So inevitably backwards! it was always going to eventually fail. Communism, like all the other 'isms' fails because of money.

    It may seem unrealistic but it is not impossible. In fact it is far more possible than many realize.

  402. @Leonardo Reason's reply to you was exactly what my reply would be.

    Its the human-factor that is missing from the 'venus project' just like communism it only works on paper. As soon as you let that idea loose in the real world it falls apart because selfishness and evil exists. In other words the 'venus' plan assumes human complicity without any deceit, or corruption, or anybody lying, or taking it over, or trying to gain power through it, or etc.. which is unrealistic in the extreme.

  403. @ Reasons Voice
    Please consider this: What if 90% of the worlds population supported the idea of The Venus Project?
    If that is the case, is it still an impossible feat, as you are insinuating?

  404. @Billy; The current state of Egypt? 45 dead and counting in a political upheaval backed by the Muslim Brotherhood? Is that supposed to give me warm feelings for the future? Don't get me wrong if the Egyptian people want new government good for them. However when one thinks of unity, one does not typically picture a political coup. Always remember even in a popular uprising there is a minority side who dissents and they are being attacked, that is not unity. Also, again, the Tech is not there. Untill we have self sustaining automitons that can do every single task known to man this movement is a pipe dream. Are you going to be the one to work in the sewers under the city with no direct reimbursement? Just because you have time on your hands now that you don't have to work, will you be the one to burry the dead? Jobs will always have to be done by man untill machines can do them for us. Even with the first stage of machines comes building, maintaining, designing, programing, and overseeing the machines. Those are still jobs for men. The only way to eliminate man from the work force and provide this "everyone is free to pursue their dreams" society, is to have self replicating, self maintaining, and self motivating AI driven machines to do all tasks. We barely have robots that can climb stairs and those fall over allot. So where is the machine that will climb 5 flights in a burning building to save yer sweet old granny? I am sory it is a lovely concept and a grand dream but it is far far out of reach.

  405. @Vlatko
    Thank you for making this doc a featured one of the site. Thank you so very much!
    I sense a lot of negativity here and claims of The Venus Project being an impossible feat. I think you all need to take a step back and realise how strong the people can be once united. Look at the current state of Egypt for example.
    This is different than what you think, this video is capable of bringing on a new evolution of the people, something that I myself will be with every step of the way. I also think negativity and claims of impossibility are just mindsets of being a product of your environment. Staying positive and uniting is more powerful than any small elite group. I think in general, many of you need to be more positive. Stop being so quick to criticise, be open to extroadinary possibilities and less close minded. This movement is going to be strong, don't step back and watch it - join it.

  406. @Vlatko
    PS: Somebody from the Movement posted the link to here on facebook. I had no idea you existed and I can't wait to check out the site. Haven't owned a TV for about 5 years and I get tired of searching youtube for interesting material...

  407. @Keith
    Really enjoyed reading your comment. Personally I'm a bit squeamish about many faiths but that's just me. Your faith is your faith and so long as it doesn't hurt anyone then it's fine with me. It's just refreshing when I see someone who has a 'faith' recognize the logic in the Zeitgeist films without feeling threatened. People like this give me renewed hope in the Movement and the struggles it faces with religion.

  408. @Jenn...
    I'm so glad that someone gets my warped sense of humor and although this is not a funny topic in the least the information gleaned from this video should be considered ( dare I say it) " orgasmic"

  409. WTF kinda ending was that.

  410. @ Vlatko ... I agree, this was an excellent film choice for your legions of appreciative fans to tell you We Love You, We Love Top Docs . I 'found' this site 3 (I think) months ago when I was researching the Zeitgeist Movement, so the spiral returns :) You said 2.5 Million visitors, and 1,5 million returning visitors each month? Wow, this is some community you have going... For me, I love the Ideals of the Venus Project ... and would not underestimate the power of a vision; as others have said, that change is unlikely to occur without a great deal of upheaval. The lack of answers for "how do we get there from here" is why I did not sign up... I am not much of a futurist anymore, and I had (mostly) 'given up' on trying to talk to friends and family, (why is that anyway - I remember my mother's frustration with the same thing - at least she had me... :). Then I got into Top Docs and started learning again, and imagining, and thinking more creatively - and I didn't feel so alone - so, because it's my way to go round and round, sometimes I will wrap up my thank you this way: I was privileged to live & work with the Dene Nations in Canada; I was fascinated to learn the language had many words of praise, but these words were only used when speaking to children - it was felt that when we 'grow up', we are motivated by our own integrity and love; however, now and then an adult did something 'above and beyond', and when that happened the people would say "Maci" , and I have seen men with tears when they were given this word. In Dene there is also another word, it is "Tcho", it is used like a pre-fix or suffix , when added to another word, it makes that thing Bigger, much bigger, as Big as it can get in fact. These two words are very rarely spoken together, but when they are, they mean everything - I think everyone who has benefited, as I have, from this site would agree with me, that you have more than earned them. So Vlatko "Maci Tcho".

  411. Vlatko... I love your site, please add an "Edit" feature :)

    The last sentence should have read something more like this...

    There is nothing in the entire history of American Culture that comes even remotely close to the degree of violence perpetrated by China on its own citizens.

    Collectivism leads to authoritarian rule. History has given us countless examples of this (USSR, China, North Korea, Ect Ect Ect...)

    In short, "Tiananmen Square" = I could not disagree with this doc more.

  412. I have two-words to say in response to the Psuedoscientific nonsense presented in this doc.

    tiananmen square

    -- Nothing in our "evil individualistic" culture comes even remotely close to the self-degradation the worlds largest "collectivist" nation.

  413. Just started watching. Part One makes so much sense. I need a break so I can have a good cry... I hope the rest isn't so emotionally torturous...

  414. burn all your money and live in the forest. There you might find happiness if you allow yourself to unlock it.

  415. This is my first time posting.and I must say thank you.boyinblue. that was almost exactly what I would have said if I had the ability to string words together like that.especially the part about the comments alone provoke so much thought.I spend more time studying comments about reports on subjects then the actually reports themselves.

  416. Finally! Thanks so much, Vlatko! :)

    @tracieo3 : That is the most inappropriate, yet hilarious thing I have read in a while. I'm still giggling five minutes later. Hahaha~

  417. Most friday nights I tell my husband, " Honey, You ARE the MAN" but tonite Vlatko, it's you! " You are the man!" Thanks for sharing a great documentary that literally made me " shudder and shake"!

  418. @Reasons Voice

    i agree that this cannot happen right now also and i agree that the main obstacle to this would be the need for a cooperative global union.

    that said i think it is vital that these type of idea`s be hashed out or at least be acceptable topics of discussion in general society rather than just on a message board.

    something like these idea`s are inevitable and the only way forward and we need to start communicating these other options rather than just believing that we are all just selfish consumers that cannot change.

    just because the nature and corruptability of those with power has not changed does not mean that it can`t.


  419. @1perspective; The nature and corruptability of those with power has not changed. That being the case it is not a moot point at all. We already gripe that big money, big business, big oil, and big banking controll us. Cant wait to see what big food will do. I have commented in depth ont this topic ad nauseum on other docs, I don't intend to rehash it. Bottom line neither the tech nor the cooperative global union exists to make this happen right now.

  420. "Science has no ego"


  421. @Reasons Voice

    the bottom line is a resource based economy has never been in place in a modern civilization, so your statement that people have shown time and again to be corruptible throughout history is a moot point also.

  422. You guys need to look at this video on youtube, check out the stats and watch the comments roll in. I would prefer to see this documentary featured on the front page of this site. Incase you haven't realised (go to youtube), this video is starting a revolution.
    The monetary system must be stopped and very soon, or we will have world wars on a new scale.
    @ Vlatko - this doco needs to be featured here, it is important!

  423. @Leonardo; Whatever the meaning of science they imply here is a moot point. The fact is that if all of society is reliant uppon any certain technology, those who controll that tech controll the people. It is a simple fact that can be seen repeating time and a gain in history. If all of our food comes from one type of agricultural process whoever controlls that process could starve the masses to whatever end they see fit.

  424. @Raz

    By science, the movie means it as its use in the management of earth resources in such an efficient way that every human in the planet has equal access to all it needs (transport, fun, education, food, health, etc) and that boring jobs that nobody wants to do are eliminated by technology (how many artists I know that sold their souls to advertising corporations?) so that people can just do what they want to do without having to worry about making a living in the sense we do today.

    if you notice what America is today, it is a nation that its citizens sells temporary happiness to each other, under the nickname "service industry". it means that there is a lot of people that hates what they do, but they have to do it anyways to pay their bills, and then hire someone in the service industry ( being a facial, a massage, a sandwich or a flight to where ever) to get rid of the pains of being under the stress of not doing what the person wants in the first place. I find that fascinating that people are so gullible to the point of fighting for useless stuff and whose got the bigger this or that, meanwhile the oceans is dying, the amazon is being cut for cow feed and we are watching it and calling it prosperity, and we know that the rest of the world sits under a mountain of debt to feed the american dream.

    In fact if you think about it, the USA really is 1.6 billion people, but 1.3 billion are chinese.... and they are the slave class...

    Anyways, in the world today most money is wasted in wars and financial corruption to a point that poverty and inequality is the way it is and there is no end in sight: in fact we all watch it from our recliners don't we? I mean americans pay to volunteer abroad.... how ironic is that! That is why it is a good idea for millions to dream of a world without poverty and equality and access to creativity for everyone. If a guy was born with a dream of being really good at wakeboarding he can fulfill that dream and he does not have to be born in a rich country...

    The solution they present here IMHO means that a lot of people will have to give their lives away to make anything like it happen. I would.

  425. The HUGE mistake occurs at 1:30. Science will, NOT save you from a dictatorship, or evil. This has been HISTORICALLY PROVEN beyond any doubt. Evil people, with selfish or evil intentions, will use science, or false science, lies, etc.. JUST as easily, and JUST as readily as religion, or distorted religion, or ANY other concept people believe in en masse, to control and harm people.

    Eugenics, scientific basis for racism, etc.. was all believed, not because there was scientific EVIDENCE, but because people WANTED it to be believed, and duped other people. So you can't hide behind science.

    The Bible was right again. Evil starts in the human heart. You can pretend a society run by science would work but its like communism it only works on paper. Its like pretending that human beings don't exist, and wont' decide to do evil and selfish things, just will trust in science, won't lie, won't be duped, etc.. its just not possible.

    If you need a real historical basis, try Stalinistic Russia, Nazi Germany, or any of the massively horrendous atrocities of recent history where real science was hijacked by the human heart, greed, and mass delusion.

    The problem is putting faith in what WE humans can do and understand. Leaving religion or anything else for science is just like replacing one sock-poppet with another, and neglecting the HAND underneath it. And behind that hand? A mind, thoughts, intention.

    Get real folks. Its time to wake up FOR REAL and realize that the ancient wisdom in the Bible, (And many other major religions if you're one of those Christian-haters.) is .. RIGHT. And we arrogantly come along with EVERY new generation, and think we know better, and get duped, AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN.

  426. @Keith

    I enjoyed reading your comments very much. I agree with almost everything you said. I am a little squeemish about Christianity, but aside from that it was great. I think people can embody some of the ideals of the Jesus story, without adhering to Christianity as a belief system. Ghandi was Hindu, but he modeled a lot of his strategy on the teachings of Christ.

    Anyway, I agree this is much more mature than the first Zeitgeist. I have seen the Dr. (who deals with addiction and ADHD) in the film on Democracy Now, and enjoyed his perspective. I think it is a much needed one.

    I do think we need to get back to the earth. Maybe there is a balance between new technology and connection to the earth. You seem like you have a lot of good ideas, Keith. I'll put you on my team, if I ever figure out a way to change the world. The Zeitgeist team is great, but their views on a solution may be too narrow. It's an excellent start, if you ask me.

  427. Those of you saying the world is not ready for this solution are basically kidding yourselves. We need this solution BEFORE the oil gets to a dangerously low level.
    This needs to be a featured documentary on this site, visit this video on youtube and look at the comments coming in every 2 seconds!
    Viva la revolution!!!

  428. My take:

    A lot of people comparing this to the first and saying it is not good in comparison. I disagree a bit. I thought the first was interesting and compelling in the way it was presented, but the ideas made so many assumptions and had a lot of incorrect history and flaky research applied that it soured any of the good points made. For example the amount of time used to present one poor theory about Jesus and Mithraism which pandered to those who will take any fodder thrown their way in discounting Christianity.

    so, with that said, I thought this one was wise to steer clear of what were obviously personal pet agendas in the first film. The attempt is more scholarly, in that the so called boring talking heads are of some weight and value and lend the film's most useful information. Real information is SOOOO boring! Just kidding. In short, I feel like this film grew up from the first which was intriguing but immature. I think its interesting that in a near about face, they actually give props to Anabaptists (I am one) as models for potentially peaceful communities. What's interesting is that they use it to further the theory that people aren't born violent and don't have to be...that cultures can change that. A missing component is that most Anabaptists are also in touch with a concept of self-sacrifice modeled on Jesus, that giving up the right to harm another is a choice, and at times a painful one. So while it may provide a kind of evidence, if anything is to be learned and applied from it, its more complicated than their usage. However, I like to think it was my carefully thought out email to Peter Joseph after watching Zeitgeist that caused him to include it. I essentially told him that if he genuinely espouses a global change, he would do well to open his heart and mind to others with common goals - some of them even creepy Christians! I explained that I love most of his ideas and think they would be even stronger and more practical if he abandoned the obvious malice toward religious faith (not religious systems and structures...I share that distrust and disgust with him) Whether my email had anything to do with it I am glad he shifted that tone.

    @backslider - Unfortunately I agree that a massive collapse will most likely have to precede any real change on a large scale. And unfortunately I think we are headed for one, however in light of that things like this can be useful in that they are prophetic. Also in your conversation about the founding fathers' ideals being raped and abused, etc...lets not polish our history. The FF did plenty of abuse for personal gain in the process of building their great idea. Their own selfishness, classism, and racism (however much of an improvement over a monarchy it might have been) planted many of the seeds of the corruption we see today. It was never perfect, just as the Venus Project never could be either.

    My pessimistic prediction about this is that ideas and concepts are likely to remain only that unless individuals make the harder changes first...changing their own behaviors. One at a time people need to look at themselves and decide to live a less selfish and deluded life, they must believe that a more joy and peace-filled existence is possible but to get there some abandonment of Me Generation ideals will be required. When those kind of transformations begin to happen, and in a community context, they you have a "cell" so to speak which can spread and promote change.

    Which brings me to my final point. My biggest concern with the concept is the heavy emphasis on technology. I think a radical change is needed, but to burden the already improbable change with a space age infrastructure puts the goals many hundreds of years out of reach in my opinion. An interesting alternative paradigm that I've been reflecting on - which by the way with our current population is also not literally possible for all - is the almost opposite notion that human beings are part of nature and that personal transformation can occur when this is recognized and embraced. I am reading some amazing books by survivalist/tracker Tom Brown. His philosophy is that we have divorced ourselves from the natural, carving up our souls in the process, living with massive dissonance and over-technofied experiences. So...a back to wilderness, re-wilding of human beings in a sense is one path. It resonates a little better for me that a super city. But I realize it is no more practical for everyone on earth as there isn't space for us to all live off the land and "indulge" in vast expanses of wilderness.

    Oh well.

    Oh, and Leonardo I think you actually present a great idea - testing the concept in a small isolated location.

  429. Relative to the first movie, this was a disappointment.

    The most positive thing I could say about it is at least the creators followed their own philosophy in terms of recycling! Most of the concepts and content I had previous seen in one of Jacques Fresco's documentaries! It wasn't even an impressive rehash of someone else ideas!!

  430. its a big shame that the old man (jahk or jack), wont see the change, and wont see his ideas and life work happen, lets just hope they dont steal all his good ideas and privatize it and charge us electronic units to live in his paradise

  431. @Reasons Voice
    Ha! Ha! Ha! Well put & you made me laugh out loud!

    What is a military coo?

  432. The first part of the film is all good with info we have all heard. Then you get to the final section- planet earth. I find many fundamental problems with this suggested solution that clearly plays directly into the globalist, socialist ag...enda. While there may be many dangling truths meant to convince within the film and the Zeitgeist movement, it is cleverly embedded with propaganda aimed at the awakening humans. There are even more fundamental problems with many aspects of what they present and suggest as solutions. The presentation of a series of truths with embedded into a logical progression of thought and then embedded within that is a powerful seed of globalist propaganda. Like many other things it sounds good on the surface, but on closer examination you will find something else entirely.

    Ah yes, and what is the primary goal of the globalist elite? EUGENICS... straight up utopian fantasy based upon collective control over how we live "sustainably" (now officially a dirty word thanks to the sewar rats) It is one solution, but in my view it is a thinly veiled repackaging of the globalist plan that is already in effect. They cant really come at those of us who are aware of the agenda in the same'ol way... so they dress it up as utopian fantasy of balance-- all controlled by some un-named "impartial" person/computer system that will keep us all in line.... blah blah blah... heard it all before. at the end of the day all you have to do to be informed is to read, reflect, think, research, be aware, be DISCERNING and most importantly dont let any person, youtube video, book, guru or "galactic federation of bullshit" tell you what you think, believe, feel,want and know. This is a uniquely personal journey and a returning to source. The only roadmap you will EVER find.. is within. so go within and find your own truth. It is the only way...

    I pray with every ounce of my being that a higher value is placed on discernment, critical thinking and willingness to look within for answers and stop allowing ourselves to be manipulated so easily....

  433. WOW!!!!!! this doc is amazing extremely well made, what some people need to know is that living things mimic their enviroment hence all the talk about genes and so on, but imagine fellow tdf lovers is that is this idea really that far fetched, really i don't think so,



  434. Okay, the ending is ... really? I think yJF and PJ have their hearts in the right place, but getting people to all live in that modular system may be like trying to herd cats. I like the critique of the Free Market Capitalism and the Monetary system, well done. But I can only give it a C.

  435. This movie is excellent. It may be my favorite of the series. I have researched a lot of the same topics this film covers, and come up with a lot of the same results.

    I love the way they portray the uniformed person's responses. I get the same responses when I try to talk to anyone about the real issues in our society, problems with the current monetary system, and problems with our values (Americans, anyway). I laugh when people say this is the best country there is. Arrogance and ignorance-what a combo.

    Anyway, I loved the movie, and I love this site. It is my favorite site. I do not think society is ready for the solutions presented in this movie, yet. I think it would be beneficial to come up with a transition between what we currently are dealing with (so-called free markets and money) and the resource-based economy they purpose.

    I am also curious as to what people think about possible hidden agendas of these films. I'm not saying there are any or there aren't, but there are plenty of people who believe that is the case. I'm curious what they are basing it on. Maybe the ideas presented are just threatening to current belief systems, so people attack it.

  436. @Epic_Logic:

    No patience to watch the latest version of Zeitgeist. Talking heads droning on. So can't say.

    Have not read Philip Dic1< books, sorry to say, but sure have watched the films many times over, "Blade Runner" "Total Recall" my fav's

  437. humanity has to move forward to survive

    the ways it operates are dead ends

    those who say the status quo works are going down with the ship

    we need people not afraid to do something new.

  438. @smugg

    yeah, imagine america as it is, filled with wackos, 100 million born again christians and so on... changing the inds of all these people...peacefully....hmmmmmm unlikely for such a large change of heart to happen.

    Now, what if a country declares an area much like Hong Kong just to test the idea?

  439. at some point in the doc, P J says : if we had a new planet earth with no civilization, no cities no states no systems, how would we organize to survive?" that s the point. that's what you need to make the Venus project happen, a new planet earth... this is why i don't see it happen in the short run and in the modality they describe. Very accurate and very right analysis of the situation, it's a wonderful idea, is the one that makes most sense, is the better way to organize life here, but it doesn't take into account millions of years of human history. oh! and that tacky ending... do you really think ppl are going to give up on money? ppl will kill for a handful of dollars/pounds/euros. Maybe in a couple of hundred years, with less then half the population of today, maybe you can start to think about that.
    Don't get me wrong, i love Zeitgeist and Mr Joseph's work, i think it should be showed in schools, but i don't see these changes happening without a massive bloodshed to get rid of the present ruling class and their brainwashed servants.
    You can quote Krishnamurti, Sagan, Gandhi as much as you like... it's great for personal enlightenment and awareness but still...
    The way i see it: yuppie friendly anarchy.
    It sounds like : you people go and fight them, when you re done, we rebuild everything.

  440. I love all the Zeitgeist-movies.
    Wonderful concepts given.
    They are right.

    This is yòur world.
    This is òur world.
    The revolution is nòw.

  441. Yes, THANK YOU for bringing some order to so many excellent documentaries!

  442. Thanks a lot Vlatko!!!! Amazing... we are few, but we can make a difference... let's try to wake people around us and share knowledge with as many people as we can...

  443. @Achems and Ramus,

    Doesn't the Zeitgeist RBE remind you of Star-Trek? No money, utopian crimeless societies, round cities. Wasn't there a collapse in civilisation before the utopia depicted in the series and movies was created?

    My favourite sci-fi author is Phillip. K. Dick I would love to see some of his ideas manifest in the real world. Cities on mars and copious amounts of Soma anybody? :))

    @The Imposter,

    Thanks for directing that question to me.

    For your own records I would suggest a headed table and possible also a graphing of Year vs dept (in trillions). Personally I would do it by hand, it's probably easier than using a graphing program.

    It's not possible (as far as I know) to display your data using a graph or table here on TDF. In any case your layout in post 70 is extremely clear and easy to understand.

    I like the way that you headed each block of data with the name of the president and that you put averages as a footer of each data block.

    No suggestions for improvement needed. Keep up the good work. 10/10.

  444. @The ImPoster again:

    "Like the founding fathers failed to foresee the raping of their political structure by private interests."

    I would say they not only foresaw it but warned repeatedly against it. History is full of ignored and unheeded warnings against our demise through private interests from the founding fathers and many others.

  445. @The ImPoster

    heh, beat me to it!

  446. My question: How can this transition be made without first a collapse in civilization... at least in it's current state? I cannot imagine any circumstance under which this change would happen smoothly.

    There are those that can and happily will send millions to their deaths just to keep their place on the proverbial throne. When all things are shared there is nothing to feed the greedy ego of man. Some will fight to the death against universal equality because to these people nothing matters more than being on top. These are the guys with the really big guns.

    As some have learned and used against us; it will take some massive event, catastrophic and/or spiritual, to move the world in the right direction. Stand back and marvel at the self destructive nature of mankind.

    I'm not trying to put a storm cloud over anyone's head, but this is the sad reality of things.

    We have met the enemy and the enemy is us.

  447. In response to the doc I enjoyed it. The first half is more of root cause type of information which was my favorite. The second being the possible end solutions. He still has yet to address the methods of getting to there. It leaves me to feel like hes being too idealistic and the only way he feels it will come about is after a complete collapse. Then a informed rebuild by people who understood the system and its benefits leading the uncaring and depraved. This tactic would require resources to begin with and could fail. Like the founding fathers failed to foresee the raping of their political structure by private interests. This doesn't even astound me as much as his falsifiable proposals being attacked in infallible ways. How can a idea such as this cause a lunatic to shoot a governor. More likely his social-economic status and life led to it which is addressed in the first part. How can this be compared to anarchy, religious and race discrimination, and violence in general. The politicians seem to be doing nothing more then poisoning the well. He has never proposed anything violent. So when I see in the news that Zeitgeist is a dangerous movement I immediately blacklist that source forever. Until the day they address the idea and don't cherry pick anyways. With all that said I am not part of the movement because he hasn't come up with concrete steps to take. I won't just disregard his ideas and information though. That's lunacy for the blind. 7/10 overall for naming it moving forward and not having that middle part present.

    Yea as is stated in this new zeitgeist there has to be a bust before a boom to make profits magically appear from nowhere. Investing in good real-estate is the best thing right now or relatively soon. Its almost at rock bottom and from there it can only go up. Gold and silver will soon hit a bust probably, I only say this due to the fact there is so much interest in selling it to people now that its up high. Course the main thing I'm watching is when the private jails and prisons show huge profits from investments on the stock market. That will be the only sign that they are going to start locking up people en-masse. They won't advertise it in the media. Then its back to the wild for my ass. =P

    I'm going to work backwards all the way to 1900's for my blog. Any suggestions on how to improve the setup of its presentation? I'm referring to the debt chart in post 70.

  448. I guess I just don't buy the whole RBE deal. But since the whole thing is about not buying stuff, I guess either I'm into it by default with that statement, or the statement itself is truely ironic.

  449. A three star movie that could have been much more, while being less movie. Zeitgeist Moving Forward simply forgot to Move Forward.

  450. Is it really worth the 2 hours and 40 minutes...? No. I honestly didn't like the way the film was put together, it had no fluidity. It starts off with the nature vs. nuture argument, property and John Locke, but the bulk of it was spent on the Venus Project. I had to force myself to watch it through even though I was nodding off. Many of the ideas are overstated again and again. The ending finally killed it for me. 2.5/5 stars think before you waste almost 3 hours on this (I loved the last two Zeitgeist and could watch them over and over)

  451. @Connie
    Thank the computers and the internet for the massive quantity of unkillable information and entertainment they make available to us, replacing TV and newspapers, and thank Vlatko for gathering it up for us :D

  452. This piece of videography stands today as the most important political manifesto to be organized in the history of mankind.

  453. I'm a total Doc Nut since I stopped watching TV over 2 years ago and stopped reading the newspaper even longer ago. I have been waiting for this documentary for over a year and a half after listening to JP on his radio talk show when he said he was working on a new one. I'm excited!!! Thanks Vlatko for letting me know it's arrived....you're the best and so is JPeters and Jacques I love their minds but, I'm sure you won't be seeing them get any kind of Noble Prize for their work. Those kind of awards are awarded to smooth taking, incompetent BS's like Obama....what a joke.......(they just gave it to him because he's black) hahaha

  454. I have one question for you Vlatko.
    Where are are you from? Because your name is a rare slavic name that appears only in south Slavic and i think Polish language. And I am from former Yugoslavia so I would like to know :)
    Keep up the good work!

  455. I agree with "boyinblue"
    "those who comment aren’t the only grateful ones here—there are so many that watch your site silently and out of sight, I’m sure even you would be surprised."

    This is my first comment too! :)

  456. @Vlatko

    One of the sites I most often visit on the internet since discovering it recently.

    Also my first post to say thanks to Vlatko!

  457. I thought it was brilliant. It is finally presenting solutions, considering language to the masses and being more of a soap box, instead of an angry cry.

  458. Those in power will use any power they have to stay in power, army, navy, marines, police forces, propaganda, and all the money they can throw at it. The best solution to this is a counter insurgency method used by the elites themselves in politics. The new terrorists are those in power, those who agree with their scandal and the suffering & genocide of billions of people, and last but not least those who will "take up arms" to defend their supposed "liberties" to oppress minorities and other poor people. Anglo-sucks-son myths and ideologies will slowly be phased out by the more rational scientific approach in due time so keep clinging to your "word of god" & macro-economic ponzy scheme and the peaceful revolution will eventually phase your kind out with the rest of the stupid ideas like tattooing your eyeballs & kings & queens.

  459. The Zeitgeist movement and Venus project are pipe dreams without everyone on board.
    The first thing it needs is resources to manage and nobody wants to give those up under the profit motive.
    I can tell you what I would be doing under a resource driven society tho... Watching more top docs, munching hydroponically grown fruits and vegetables, learning to cook because ingredients wouldn't be scarce, getting outside more because I would get bored playing computer games all the time, taking pictures and... guess what... working, because I want to do something productive and meaningful.

  460. some day all of us screenwriters have to get together and have a big orgy !

  461. wtf...... one minute its there...... then it dissapears

  462. @Vlatko

    It's me who have to THANK YOU :)

  463. So will this be released today at like 11:59pm?

  464. Completely agree with Epi and Ramus, was expecting a doc of epic proportions. Like the first "Zeitgeist" and "Zeitgeist addendum"

    More like a re-run of "Gidget gets married" never so bored in my life, completely forced myself to watch at least half of it, to see what all the hoflaw was about.

    Good thing did not have to pay money for it, would of demanded my money back!

  465. Thanks for all of the great docs Vlatko!

  466. @Epi
    I agree mate waited ages for this and like I said above its 2 hours of the Venus Project (Yawn). Seems to me PJ didn't know what to put in his second piece so just got a bunch of guys to talk about stuff and more stuff and yet more stuff. FOR 2 AND A HALF HOURS!!

  467. Mark

    I wanted to add, read or watch documentaries about the French Revolution. Learn from history.

  468. Mark

    I think anybody that believes that the powers that be are going to let Zeitgeist walk all over them are sadly deluded. What is Zeitgeist going to do? Take over the world governments in a military coo? What will you do with dissenters? Create a gulag? Send them to the gas chamber? Force re education on them? Do you have the guts to bear arms and murder people simply because they don't support your ideology? Are you ready for an armed conflict? I do naively believe in democracy. I believe it takes participation from the people as a whole. I also believe in a free press unhindered for external influences being it government or business or unions. I strongly believe this would solve a lot of issues right of the bat. I do believe that the present situation has a lot to be desired. I believe the US is a democracy for the rich. I tell you one thing, those that headed the communist party in Russia are now the best of capitalists. These people have no ideology or morality. They will change their clothes and badges to suit the situation. You can be sure they are already making money of this Zeitgeist movement.

    I'm not that naive. As I said what will happen to those that do not want to go along with this zeitgeist revolution? Has anybody thought of that. Most people follow one or other of the major religions. Do you really believe that you can force and re education plan on them. I think Zeitgeist is playing to all the fools out there who think they have the power to change anything. What are they planing a military coo.

  469. @boyinblue said it very well. Better than I can. Thanks for your site. I learn something new almost everyday here.
    Cheerz from Calgary, Alberta
    Now I'm off to go watch this movie and learn something else new.

  470. What caused the BLACKOUT since noon today?

  471. Three words to describe this documentary. Dull, dull, dull. What an anti-climax. Where were the flashing lights, emotive language and post-apocalyptic music? Correct me if I am wrong but that was the winning formula of the first Zeitgeist movie.

    Also, what was the point of highlighting the problem of addiction? Didn't get it. More blah, blah, blah followed by even more resource based economy talk, yawn.

    Someone has to put the greedy and grabbistic bankers to the proverbial sword first of all; most tax-paying citizens agree on that; just not sure if RBE is the best answer YET. Personally I think that all central banks should be run by the government so that they can lend money (or just print it) to themselves without the attached burden of interest. Then employ some of the current economic whizz-kids at a salary. If they don’t like it then they can f&*k off to wherever they want; just don’t expect a pension and a welcome back into the country when they do.

    On the plus side it is nice to hear some alternatives to the current financial mess that we are in and I leap with joy anytime that the bankster's gets bashed.

    Nice wheel barrow story @Aristotle. What is happening on 12/12/12? That is the day I have pencilled in for my wedding, providing that I can find a wife by then. Either that or 11/11/11.

    @Vlatko!!! This site isn't going to run itself!!! Quick backslapping break and back to work!!!!!! (*)

    Nice stats, @The Imposter. Thanks for that.

    (*) I joke BTW. You should have realised that my attempts at humour aren't really that funny by now. Love ya man.

  472. @imposter - nice numbers. as you were asking for peoples views i will offer mine, which is in part that i tend to agree with you. a period of reducing the deficit is usually followed by a crisis. each period of growth followed by recession. it tends to follow an approximately 15 year cycle, i believe it is called the banking cycle. from this i gather that the idea that markets balance themselves out at a happy medium is nonsense. economies sway between boom and bust like drunks at happy hour. solutions? erm...

  473. “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has”.

    -Margaret Mead-

    Keeping Ms. Mead in mind and that the argument “it’s human nature” is considered a straw man, here’s a challenge but first a small story.

    Two men were watching a daredevil preparing to push a wheelbarrow over a tight wire suspended over Niagara Falls. One man believed that he would make it and the other believed he wouldn’t. The unbeliever challenged the believer to get in the wheel barrow while the daredevil made the attempt.

    That’s the challenge, any takers?

    I fell for this stuff in the 60’s it’s just been repackaged using left-overs from the Mother Earth crowd and the “Imagine” bunch. Even Buddha found the middle path. Everyone longs for a Heaven on Earth. Gaia could again be the universal symbol with a Cornucopia for all. The anthem could be “I’d like to teach the world to sing”.

    After a start in the industrialized nations, everyone could lend a hand in their jeans, tie-dyed shirts and sandals or was that Juicy jeans and carry aid and the message into the Balkans, Sudan, Afghanistan and Iran armed with hope, peace, brotherhood and understanding to help them out. Once successful the next move would be the Asian Steps and into North Korea and China. They’ll be waiting with open arms.

    After the revolt, and there will be a few minor problems there, who gets the Keys to the Kingdom? If you believe in the “Second Coming” and I don’t, even He is supposed to rule with a rod of iron. Another possible key holder would be the winners of the Nobel Peace prize?

    Imagine the whole world just going on strike! Where are you John and Buffy and Dillion? Within the problem is its solution.

    Besides 12/12/2012 is less than 687 says away.

  474. You the man Vlatko!!

  475. A look at recent presidents and US national debt (rounded)

    George H. W. Bush
    1989 | 2.857 Trillion - 255 Billion added - 10% Increase
    1990 | 3.233 Trillion - 376 Billion added - 13% Increase
    1991 | 3.665 Trillion - 432 Billion added - 13% Increase
    1992 | 4.065 Trillion - 400 Billion added - 11% Increase
    Average of 366.8 Billion per year

    William J. Clinton
    1993 | 4.411 Trillion - 346 Billion added - 9% Increase
    1994 | 4.693 Trillion - 282 Billion added - 6% Increase
    1995 | 4.974 Trillion - 281 Billion added - 6% Increase
    1996 | 5.225 Trillion - 251 Billion added - 5% Increase
    1997 | 5.413 Trillion - 188 Billion added - 4% Increase
    1998 | 5.526 Trillion - 113 Billion added - 2% Increase
    1999 | 5.656 Trillion - 130 Billion added - 2% Increase
    2000 | 5.674 Trillion - 18 Billion added - 0% Increase
    Average of 201 Billion per year

    George W. Bush
    2001 | 5.807 Trillion - 133 Billion added - 2% Increase
    2002 | 6.228 Trillion - 421 Billion added - 7% Increase
    2003 | 6.783 Trillion - 555 Billion added - 9% Increase
    2004 | 7.379 Trillion - 596 Billion added - 9% Increase
    2005 | 7.933 Trillion - 554 Billion added - 8% Increase
    2006 | 8.507 Trillion - 574 Billion added - 7% Increase
    2007 | 9.008 Trillion - 501 Billion added - 6% Increase
    2008 |10.025 Trillion - 1,017 Billion added - 11% Incr.
    Average of 543.9 Billion per year

    Barack Obama
    2009 |11.910 Trillion - 1,885 Billion added - 19% Incr.
    2010 |13.562 Trillion - 1,652 Billion added - 14% Incr.
    So Far Average of 1,768.5 Billion per year

    Debt currently stands at 14.076 trillion almost 4 months after the fiscal year of 2010. That's another 514 billion in 1/3rd of the year.

    So there can be no debate about my accuracy here's the source I used.

    And the formulas
    Debt Added = That year - Previous year
    %Increase = That year / Previous Year * 100 - 100
    Average = Total debt for term / number of years

    My opinions and thoughts
    What I find more interesting is that both times we were showing a trend of reducing the deficit *Clinton Era* and *1919 - 1930* we were hit with a crisis. 1919 = 27.4 billion debt... 1930 = 16.2 billion debt. 1930 the beginning of The Great Depression started the trend of debt growth, not leveling off until 1945 where it was at 258.7 billion. Most of that can probably be attributed to WW2(39-45). Over the course of the war 85 million Americans purchased bonds totaling approximately $185.7 billion(via Wiki). Bonds = debt since the government has to repay. This is why the fed is considering freezing their bond program as we haven't increased the debt ceiling yet. If they don't it sits at 14.3 trillion and there will have to be major cuts to spending. This will cause financial havoc due to the stupidity of our system atm. I think it would be a good thing if they didn't though. It would force change that needs to happen to reign in our deficit. We are almost past the point of difficult return (debt > GDP). The other thing I find fishy is the late 60's we lost all sense of fiscal responsibility and the debt has grown 35x as large in the last 40 years. Which is why people are starting to worry... If it repeated that in 2051 we would be at 490 trillion debt. Anyways I'm interested to see what other people think about all of that and will quit rambling. Was just waiting for this doc to pop anyways. =P

  476. Thank you Vladko for all your hard work! I too enjoy this site immensely from Saudi Arabia where I have limited access to interesting media in English. Peace.

  477. my son thinks I'm the smartest person on earth :)
    thanks Vlatko

  478. for those that are having trouble finding it, if you just keep typing Zeitgeist 3: Moving Forward [Full Length] into youtube you will find it although it keeps getting put up and taken down by different people.

  479. The Movie will be released in it's official version later today.

  480. ahh man this is great.. been looking at the trailer for 3 hrs now and its actually starting to feel like a full length film now.... i love it..

  481. i reckon the view expressed in the Zeitgeist/venus project are about common sense. The thing most ppl fail to see is that those necessary changes will not happen tmoro morning, it will take years, decades, centuries, a lot of work, a lot of deaths, yes a lot of deaths. Far more of half the population of the world can't dig those facts and will carry on in the only way they know, oil, predatory behaviour, war, etc. and they will perish in doing hat because that's the road to extintion. i think the problem is IF they will take the whole world with them or IF they ll just do harm themselves. After the world will get rid of them, those left will start the Venus project as it will be the only way possible. Until then, keep spreading knowledge and awereness.

  482. wow just finished watching and am filled with a lot of renewed optimism for the world. i hope for the sake of our children that we can get more and more people to start thinking in the progressive way that jacques fresco and the rest of the Zeitgeist movement are.


    i agree totally that this is a very fitting thread for vlatko to be receiving the wonderful sentiments he is.


  483. Seems appropriate that all this praise should be given to Vlatko in the comments section of Zeitgeist moving forward, make sense as Zeitgeist was the original catalyst for my own fascination in online documentaries. Thank you vlatko for all your hard work.

  484. just to add.........

    i also love you vlat.

  485. @boyinblue

    Thank you for that awesome comment! I was reading it thinking to myself: that's me!


    Just wanted to extend my gratitude out of the shadows and say thank you for all the hard work. I look for a documentary to watch every night and have come to love this site more than lots of others on the web! Keep on truckin, and know you bring happiness to loads of people around the globe. =)

  486. I would just like to give many thanks to vladko for giving me and many others the chance to learn and question many of these docs. the best website ever. i would also just like to say having researched the zeitgeist movement in great detail, i really do think that it would be possible to create a world such as stated by the wonderful jacque fresco,the brilliant thing about the venus project is that it is open to interogation, the entire concept basically came from jacque with little help from others, but if a system like this is to work it really needs everyone to put a bit of thought into the whole concept,and work bit by bit to improve it.
    so basically think of the way that you truely want to live your life, we all think that TDF is amazing but imagine a world were you really could study in depth or just peak at any field of study that takes your fancy and at your own time but this clearly cannot happen with the constraints of the monetary system.

    i hope to who ever reads this that you do try to put some imput into it plz!!!!

    in the end of the day our current society has fat f--kers sitting in there massive offices in there $1000 dollar suits mostly made in countries with cheap labour, and there mansions with supercars parked outside,and big salarys, while on the other side of the street there could be a homeless family having to beg just to feed themselves with a couple of boxs to live in. this is the reality we are living in now. sure if we wanted to we could live the so called big mans life of bite or be bitten, but i for one would not be able to do it, not while children are going hungry and are dying while i profit in there sorrow.

    sorry for ranting but this is a big supject to me

  487. Can't watch 'zeitgeist: moving forward' here(netherlands) yet. It's not working. Will very soon, I'm sure. I joined 'the dutch zeitgeist movement' online because I support their ideas.

    Thanks Vlatko!

  488. The best and least conspiracy driven zeitgeist movie yet. Vlatko you are the best.

  489. Worth watching and makes for a promising future.... Not sure if all the facts are correct.... Facts lol just as science...

  490. Wow,.. this doco ROCKS,.. Venus I’m cummin’,..but what happens to me when the green crystal imbedded in my left hand starts to flash red,.. do I go to carousel, meet the ice man, or the guy with all those cats ? Or do I just get zapped into vapour with with a really big laser ?

  491. Steven

    "My big complaint about these guys is that they think they’re going to change the world and replace it with what. Them. This is a small elitist group and I suspect they are bilking the innocent. I still naively believe in democracy and the sharing and exploring of ideas. There can be no place for argument or dissent in the world they propose. I do not believe in dictatorships no matter how they present themselves. At the end of the day neither Allah or the pope will allow them to succeed".

    Hope you don't mind me quoting you, Steven.

    I think the point they are making is that no political doctrine is going to save us from our collective subservience to the materialistic, dog eat dog system we have experienced for many decades.

    I am afraid, dear Steven, that your naive belief in democracy, rather reflects the subservience I mention. The terrible brainwashing emanating from the mainstream media has got most people believing that democracy is somehow the saviour of the world. It is instead, the ghastly idea that the majority opinion wins. Given that people are so easily convinced and suckered into believing all kinds of garbage that ushers forth from our democratic leaders, the majority opinion is almost certainly going to be the wrong one.

    It's time we abandoned politicians and the misery they convey to the world. It is the kind hearts of we, the people, and noble deeds of inclusion that are now needed at this turning point in human history.

  492. This is their best work yet, there wasn't a single part I disliked this film will inspire revolutionaries world wide I hope in the near future if not later generations will study, I guarantee mankind will come to these same conclusions presented in this film. Nice to see Max Keiser I watch him regularly on RT, he's one of the few economists I bother listening to because he isn't simply a "money propagandist". On another note if we ever do discover another earth like minded people will immigrate there and leave all you fascist cry babies to fend for yourselves.

  493. Change....to what exactly? How, exactly? We might all agree we're in the outhouse, but not all of us will agree on how to leave, or where to go.

  494. I will not generally submit but I loved your weblog a good deal.

  495. Your welcome, Vlatko. Watch about one per day.

  496. ..........AWESOME DOC ... Unfortunately most people cannot
    injest the true reality of today because schools are still teaching, or training our children to be materialistic and passive. It is TEN times harder to educate someone who has been taught to believe the world is okay when in fact, the window of opportunity for change is almost boarded up. I'm beginning to believe that it is far far too late to do anything but collect all the water, canned food, drygoods & matches and go north away from the stench of ignorance. AND bring some bullets for protection when human desperation sets in. Then again, maybe the future is going to be absolutely wonderful. HaHaHaHeHehahehahehah.........ew!!!! REVOLUTION....REVOLUTION....REVOLUTION

  497. Saw this in the theater on the 23rd. Definitely worth a viewing. Though in the theater, I felt that it dragged on a bit and at times it was a little weak, naive and repetitive. I would have appreciated it more online, pausing at will. The first third and the last third have the most to offer by far. Still love Zeitgeist I and II though. Much appreciation to the film makers and Vlatko for the post.

  498. This should be retitled Zeitgeist : The Venus Project. About 2 hours of this video are about it. Yes we know it would be good if we lived in this utopian resource based economy rather than the monetary one. But is it really likely to happen. Of course not. We have dug ourselves down a very deep well and forgotten to take a ladder.

    Peter Joseph himself states all his material is free to distribute, copy and broadcast so what's your beef? Why are you in "The Movement" if you have a profiteering mindset?

  499. Thanks Vladko, it really is a great website.

    I will be starting a website in a couple of months as well to teach people the basics and some details about most sciences and engineering. This site was part of the inspiration!


  500. My big complaint about these guys is that they think they're going to change the world and replace it with what. Them. This is a small elitist group and I suspect they are bilking the innocent. I still naively believe in democracy and the sharing and exploring of ideas. There can be no place for argument or dissent in the world they propose. I do not believe in dictatorships no matter how they present themselves. At the end of the day neither Allah or the pope will allow them to succeed.

  501. From one of the many hidden viewers..... Thank you Vladko Keep up the good work.

  502. It's becoming easier to spot those who base their knowledge on documentaries.

  503. In 10 years Peter Joseph will be remembered only as the guy down the street that used to work at the post office.

  504. @vlatko

    ummmhh .. are you single,.. if you r call me I'll rock your world baby !!!!

    remember,...you have my email address,... ooopppsss

  505. wow - I can't believe you guys posted this prematurely and without permission from Peter Joseph. So much for loyalty in the movement. You can't wait until Jan 25?

  506. man will either learn or cease to exist, energy will not be lost as all life is cyclical and there is no such thing as destruction.

  507. Watched this a couple weekends ago when it was released at a theater in Toronto. I found the first part very informative, about the causes of social disorders and behaviours. Jacques Fresco has it right. His observations on society which were explained in the 2nd movie were eye opening to me and really changed how I looked at our current socio/political/economic system. His scientifically managed society is definitely a techno utopia with many amazing ideas, but it's hard to see that system ever being close to implemented.

    The people in power today will want to continue keeping that power, even in a non-monetary based world. Distribution of power is the key element here. I personally view greed and power hunger as mental illnesses, but they aren't going away anytime soon.

    One thing is clear though. Either we fundamentally change out system, or fewer and fewer people will be in the "have" group with billions joining the "have nots." The resources just can't support the nearly 7 billion we have now. I'm a realist, and truly feel that in some parts of the world, we will more and more Rwanada type events occur as desperate people war over resources.

  508. @boyinblue
    Well put my knowledge seeking friend. I do not watch TV, about 95% of what I do watch is here on TDF (yay for Vlatko). TV forces you to watch what they want you to watch, here YOU choose what you want to watch and you can hear other peoples thoughts on it. I may not agree with peoples views and they may not agree with mine but at least we get a voice.
    TV is a smog filled one way street with a copper waiting at the end, places like this are an open highway where you can open a window, feel the wind and put your foot to the floor.
    Keep on trucking V :)

  509. @Vladko

    a late thank you. truly excellent work.

  510. @boyinblue I know exactly what you're talking about. I feel like i could have skipped 12 years of school I had found this site in time :D

    This site has really made an impact on me. Thank you Vlatko :)
    Keep it up!

  511. Incidentally,despite your own recommendations,Vlatko,I'm anxious to see "Moving Forward" (with an eye to socio-economic ideologies gone by.)with stern critical objectivism.Earlier Zeitgiest docs were weakend by loosely reasearched,indulgent astrological baloney and offered loads of conspiritorial conjecture.That said,it's still an eye opener!

  512. So say we want to test this zeitgeist theory in real life. Would a group of people lobby for a special economical zone a la Hong Kong somewhere with enough resources? How would commerce work with other countries? Would other countries be willing to help out if they are not making any money from it?

    Great movie, had seen it at a pre-screening... yeah I am a nerd...

  513. Vlatko, you are our own Peter Joseph. For it is through your site that expressions ranging from the preplex to the profane are given a forum to analyze and ponder. Like Zeitgeist, you give voice to the world of free thinkers, unchained by God or Government.

    Keep it up my friend, your great work does not go unnoticed!